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Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
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Looking polished?
I don’t look polished. Even when I try, I never seem to get there. I am in academia and on some days it is perfectly fine to chose comfort over style. On other days, I wish I could look much more put together and project confidence, ease, and power. What do you do to look polished?
I am at a loss about what a solution could look like and what exactly my problem is. I am mid 30s, good skin, not so nice shoulder-length hair (fine & few) that I usually wear up, 5’6” tall, size 6, prefer not to wear heels (a bit is fine), like dresses, wear some make-up, look bulky in blazers (hourglass figure, but with a bit of a baby-pooch). I think I usually look hectic, stressed, with wrinkles in my clothes, like I don’t care about fashion (not even true) … Would signature pieces (coat?, watch?, etc.) or a better hairstyle help? Nail polish? Necklaces? A high quality bag? What are your favorite items?
Anonymous
Lots of random comments ahead.
Yes, a better hairstyle would help.
I’d skip nail polish unless you have time/energy to keep it pristine.
I fail to see how someone who is 5’6″ and a size 6 can look bulky in anything. I’m guessing you look FAR FAR better than you recognize.
You feel like you look hectic, stressed, and wrinkled. You want to look polished, confident, at ease, and powerful.
The tough talk here is that you’ll have to change some key areas of your life to make this transition — you can’t buy it at a salon or store. You’re going to have to find time to slow down, relax, shop with care, take care of your clothes, iron your clothes, dress in thoughtfully put-together outfits, get your hair done, keep your shoes and bags in good shape . . . and I’m guessing that if you have a baby and are working full time, you don’t have time for that, which is where the hectic/stressed is coming from. IN short, start changing life habits along with the clothing/grooming habits, to move from stressed/don’t care/wrinkled to powerful, confident, at ease, and polished. It’s going to be a process, and will probably happen slowly, over time. It feels like you want to BE different, and looking different can help that.
(Also, all those women who look “effortlessly” pulled together? Not so. There’s a LOT of effort involved in shopping, planning, grooming, choosing, maintaining in order to appear effortless.
busybee
Are you usually in a rush? My trick for looking polished is to show up early so I can spend five minutes in the bathroom brushing my hair, putting on lipstick, switching into my heels, etc. Don’t just rush into the classroom or meeting or whatever right off the street. Fixing your wrinkled clothes is easy- just iron them. Looking polished takes at least some time and effort.
Anonymous
Ironing. If you look disheveled and wrinkled, iron your clothes. Focus on your bags- are you carrying more than one? Streamline. Mascara. Lip stick. Hair down and done.
Anonymous
Ironing and tailoring.
anon
Alternatively, I hate ironing so I only buy clothes that don’t wrinkle.
lsw
Same. I never iron, but buy non-wrinkling fabrics and take care while washing/drying.
Anon
At least get a steamer. If you have the room get a standing steamer so that you will actually use it.
Anonymous
Accessories will pull an outfit together. Try looking for fabrics that are less likely to wrinkle during the day, or chose print more often as the wrinkles may be less noticeable.
Personal stylist
I skimmed all of the comments and didn’t see this one, which is easy and actionable — go to Nordstrom for a personal stylist appointment. Tell her what you told us, how formal your work is, and she or he will put together several outfits that could work for you. It’s free, so it’s worth a try. Many of the comments here are great but will take time for you to implement, the stylist is an easy one.
You can also make an appointment with a Nordstrom beauty stylist, who will give you tips on makeup (and maybe your hair, but I’m not sure).
Jane
How is your posture? I think people who stand up straight have a more powerful presence and look more pulled together than people who slouch/let their shoulders round in—-even assuming two people wearing the exact same clothing. This is true with men and women. Becoming aware of standing up straight (and strenthening your back muscles to help in this effort) will make you look more polished.
Anon
I bet you look pretty good, but there are things that could help.
Good haircut – check out local salons on Instagram that are posting good pics
Skin care routine – get a good regime and stick with it (for me — morning – Cerave cleanser, vitamin C cream and spf face lotion, p.m. cleanser, retin A, eye cream, face cream)
Makeup – get your routine down to something really simple but that you can manage every day; try to keep the routine to 5 minutes or less (for me — concealer, foundation, brow highlighter, blush, mascara and lip gloss)
Capsule wardrobe – no impulse buys, get a uniform that looks good and is easy to care for, get things altered
Jewelry – get something that you would like to wear daily
Basically, put a lot of initial thought into your look, but reduce your daily effort.
Also, get enough sleep, exercise and eat well. That may mean dropping some other things in your life.
I was on the Hot Mess Express during my 20s. I’m in my late 30s now and feel pretty good about where I am.
Anon
My recommendations are along the same lines:
Having a good haircut (and maintaining it) makes a huge difference. A short style is easier than a long style. If you have long hair and can’t make it look polished on a daily basis, go on Youtube and figure out an updo that you can handle. Also, not washing your hair every day makes a big difference here. Dry shampoo is your friend.
Figure out a style uniform and a color palette that works for you. Pick a couple base neutrals that are flattering on your skintone (e.g., black/navy, camel/cream) and then a few accent colors that you’re particularly drawn to. Only buy clothes in that palette.
Buy one simple, well-designed handbag in the color of your base neutral. Maybe 3 summer shoes and 3 winter shoes, also in your base neutral.
Wear the same few pieces of jewelry every day. Earrings, necklace, watch, and ring.
Do 5 minutes of makeup in the morning. Evening out your skintone and opening up your eyes with mascara are the most bang-for-your-buck areas to focus.
If you’re not going to iron or get things tailored, you need to buy clothes that don’t need ironing or tailoring. I hate ironing and have never managed to get in the habit of getting things tailored. So I buy clothes with a little bit of stretch in them, and I wash them on delicate and then hang dry them to avoid wrinkles and extend the life of my clothes.
lsw
I think a fresh cut would do a lot. I am not good with hair and prefer not to style mine more than putting product in and air-drying, and I have found that a good haircut ($$) makes a huge difference here.
anon in brooklyn
Get a steamer. I always looked rumpled at work, but I got a steamer and steam the wrinkles out of everything now before I put them on—including t-shirts and sweaters. Only take a minute, much easier than ironing. By far the biggest change in how I look.
Katie
Yes – if you might consider a pixie cut, or something short, I know that’s done a lot for helping me look more polished. With long hair, it took too much time to blow dry and style and maintain. With a pixie, I hit it with a blow dryer for a minute and put in some product and I’m good to go. It’s a very intentional look and I think that helps, whereas my long hair just sort of “is”. I’m likely to keep the pixie for a while – despite the cost of more regular trims, the time savings is worth it.
AnonInfinity
I had a pixie cut for many years and found that I needed to get it cut every 3-4 weeks to really make sure it looked sharp. It saved tons of time in the mornings, and I enjoyed my time at the salon, but the maintenance was a lot. My hair is thick and grows quickly.
I do agree with the principle that a pixie or a more “done” cut could go a long way to help this. And ironing your clothes!
Anonymous
Same. I have a pixie with thick, fast-growing hair, and by the end of week 3 I am counting the days until my next haircut. It is time-consuming and expensive to maintain the cut and color, but it saves me 25 minutes of hairstyling every morning.
Anon
If you want to keep long-ish hair (I’m in that boat as well), get into a schedule of wash/styling your hair twice a week. I usually do Sunday night or Monday night, and Thursday night or Friday morning before work. Think about the cut you have and the cut you could actually live with and make look good. There is nothing wrong with being bad at doing your hair! I embrace the low pony and low bun once my hair is past the point of looking freshly blown out. As far as tools to keep you going with ease, I just bought the Revlon One Step Volumizer (dupe for the Dyson AirWrap) and it has changed my life! That + plus an easy cut with medium and long layers makes doing a simple, sleek blow dry so easy, and it also looks good up/back.
+1000 on the steamer. Maybe find bottoms (skirt and/or pant) that work well for you and play with shapes/colors/textures in your blouses? This seems to work well for me. And I always make it a point to throw on a noticeable-yet-professional pair of earrings every day.
Anonymous
I’m going to suggest that you simplify your look as much as humanly possible. The fewer things you have to maintain or keep up, the better you can do on the ones that are left. This is true for your life, your schedule, your outfits, etc.
I basically have a uniform (cute top and pencil skirts, with flats or heels), with a watch and basic earrings and I pull my hair back into a twist each day. 5 min of makeup that I have down pat. I look – but more importantly, FEEL – relatively polished on the days I do this.
Vicky Austin
-Do you trust your hair stylist? Ask them for recommendations on how to combat your hair problems (need volume, need to control frizzies, etc.).
-Another vote for figuring out a uniform. Kate Middleton is my style icon for this exact reason – she has no fear about wearing yet another all-but-identical coatdress because she knows it works for her. Zero in on the clothes and styles that make you happy and go ham. No need to follow trends or create variety to please other people.
-Pay attention to your feet and hands, too. I can recommend the Neutrogena Norwegian formula hand cream – that sh*t is magic.
-Make laundry as easy on yourself as possible. A steamer is a great idea. If you have a lot of clothes you love that are hang dry or dry flat, buy a drying rack. Buy the fancy detergent that’s designed for sweaters. Whatever you need to not think about it too much.
-And also, this takes time to put together. You’re not going to curate the ultimate wardrobe and figure out all the best products for your skin by tomorrow. You might run into some duds and realize that that brand of pants doesn’t work for you. It’s okay. You’re on your way.
PolyD
I see lots of suggestions for a uniform, which isn’t a bad idea, but don’t make the mistake of thinking black goes with EVERYTHING. It does not. I have a colleague who throws a black cardigan on with everything she wears and it looks the opposite of polished.
Take a little time to think about how the colors of your outfit can look intentional.
Anon
My rule on black is that it goes with neutrals. So black and beige, black and gray, black and brown even. But no black with bright colors. I know people are going to get offended but it doesn’t look good. There are much better choices than a black cardigan or black pants to wear with colorful tops or dresses.
Anon
+1 black with bright colors looks garish and not at all fashionable
Anonymous
To me, simpler, sleeker styles look more polished. A solid color, narrow stripe, or small dot print looks more polished than a loud print. A perfectly tailored sheath dress is more polished than a rumply shirtdress. Simple jewelry is more polished than big costume jewelry.
Get everything tailored to fit perfectly, and get pencil skirts and sheath dresses tapered instead of letting them hang straight down. Make sure everything is pressed or steamed and pill-free. Shoes and bags should be maintained in perfect condition and free of excessive trims and details.
Basically, channel Audrey Hepburn. Less is more.
Formerly Lilly
Okay, so I know many people roll their eyes at Eileen Fisher clothing. But the fact is that you can look somewhere from casual to nice office appropriate with a few pieces that go together and will run through the wash and dryer, hang on a hanger, and you’re done and will be wrinkle free. Maybe it’s not entirely how you see your style. It’s joy for me, but it’s just an office day work uniform (govt lawyer here). For example, today I’m in the ubiquitous crepe pants, drapey linen sweater and nice sandals. Tomorrow will be knee length crepe skirt, tunic top, wedge sandals. Friday will be a second pair of the black crepe pants, a random inexpensive white knit shell from Macy’s and a black BB cardigan. Monday was a black crepe midi skirt, another white shell and a bright cardigan. I may well look like the office version of an aging goth many days, but for office days I have a small selection of appropriate, low care clothing that all goes together. If you do decide to revamp your wardrobe, for ease, pick either navy or black as your base. Gray and camel will go with either, and your can add color variety with the colors that look good on you. Don’t buy anything else, don’t buy anything that requires care you aren’t going to do (be honest with yourself on that!), and don’t buy anything that won’t work with your base wardrobe. That said, I’ll bet you look a lot better than you think you do, and may just need to organize yourself into a certain work look that is simple but appropriate.
Marshmallow
Basically everything I wear to work is either Eileen Fisher or MM LaFleur, in a small color palette, and essentially two or three repeating silhouettes. The clothes don’t wrinkle, can be washed in the machine at home and laid flat to dry, fit like a dream (need to invest a little time up front in finding the right sizing and tailoring if necessary), and are basically interchangeable. Adult Garanimals. Casual day? Black crepe pants with Didion top untucked. Got a meeting? Tuck the Didion top into the crepe pencil skirt. Client event? Any MMLF dress, maybe with a blazer. Court? Suit plus basically any shirt from those two brands, tucked in. I wear heels with everything, which also helps with polish.
Anon
Same. I have all the system pieces and they are simple, flattering shapes that make you look put together (through magic as far as I can tell). I am a sucker for nice fabrics so I also have a lot of the EF silk shells – not the knit silk jersey but woven silk- and lots of longer cardigans and soft jackets from the same line.
I’m always getting comments about how I look nice and I’m like, dude, I’m basically in my pajamas. Expensive pajamas but as comfy as pajamas.
If I need a dressed up look for a meeting, conference, presentation etc, I wear one of the tall-friendly mm lafleur dresses with one of my EF blazers.
Formerly Lilly
Yep. Work pajamas. I favor black, and more black. I suppose my style could accurately be described as “aging goth work pajamas”, although in reality it’s a more polished and less dire look than that suggests. My fantasy self got dressed at Brooks Brothers and Lafayette 148, in tailored trousers, a beautiful white button front shirt, a blazer, and Gucci loafers. Sadly that would not be an optimal look for my figure. As I type that I am wondering if OP might need to do some dressing room experimentation with different styles. Maybe she too is someone who is drawn to a style that is not her best look and on some level that’s registering as unhappiness with appearance.
Anon
+1 to picking black or navy as your base and adding complementary colours. I wear black, cream, army green, camel, grey, sometimes light blue. All my pants and tops go together. It makes life easy.
midtown anon
You probably look more polished than you think, but ditto on the (1) hair cut–a good cut is worth every penny, (2) suiting dresses, at least for me is key. I can be in a comfy sweater in my office but throw on a blazer for mtgs. I find them comfortable, and have been told by other associates that to them, I’m someone that they think of as “always put together” (although I rarely feel this way, I guess it’s working?), (3) finding the skincare/makeup that works for you, and wanted to add (4) finding polished/formal flats so that you don’t feel like you have to wear heels if you don’t want to (i found a few over time, but i love em. Rothys do not count).
Anonymous
this is off topic but i saw a rothy’s commercial that described them as “the it shoe” WHAT?! they may be comfortable and useful, but they are not cool. end rant.
OP
Thank you all so much for your suggestions! They are really valuable. Keep them coming, please.
Maybe it all does take more effort than I want it to take and I just need to accept that. However, I have actually never had a haircut I looked polished in. I don’t like short hair on me at all and I think it objectively doesn’t suit me well. I just had my hair cut last week, but maybe there is not much that can be done. I don’t think my “wrinkly impression” could be solved by ironing because the fabric usually is not wrinkly per se – maybe it is a lack of tailoring and ill-fitting clothes.
But posture, not being rushed, and better fabrics are good suggestions (among all others!).
anon
OK, so I was in your place a few years ago, and now I’m really happy with how I present on most days. I agree that it sounds like the fit of your clothes is off. Take some time to identify a few brands that seem to fit you more naturally — for pants, especially — don’t feel like you need to deviate from those brands. I also wonder if fabric is part of the problem, if it’s constantly feeling or looking rumply (but not wrinkly). You might do better with some easy-care fabrics rather than fussier fabrications (100% cotton included).
It does take effort, unfortunately. If you do the hard work up front of being *really* choosy about what you buy, you’re more than halfway there. Don’t be like me and constantly wear your sale goggles when shopping for work clothing. ;) Yeah, it’s not as much fun to buy work clothes as a fun weekend dress, but it’s important because you spend a lot of time in these clothes; they might as well be things that you like and fit you well.
I would spend time figuring out the hair situation. If you don’t like short hair, what about a neatly defined bob? I can’t really do super simple, casual hair; I benefit so much from having a defined style. Frankly, I kind of s*ck at styling long hair, despite my best efforts, so I need my haircuts to do most of the work for me.
Trixie
This might be a bit crazy, but you could get some hair extensions to thicken, not lengthen, your hair. It will be more full, and will be easier to put up. It might be worth a try, once, to see if it works for you. Also, try no-iron blouses. Foxcroft makes lots of them, as does Brooks Brothers, LLBean, etc. They always look crisp, and sometimes knits look sloppy, and polyester can look cheap. I suggest a long lasting lipstick, and eyeliner.
Tailoring is key to looking good. Also, go for the Nancy Pelosi style dress: sleeves, bold color, office appropriate. I think dresses are great!
dpmitten
I find that even though I wear my hair in a ponytail a lot, doing a quick pass with a flatiron or curling iron makes it look a lot better. I can even do this the night before and it will make a difference. I also use a tortoiseshell ponytail holder rather than a plain one when I want the ponytail to look intentional. I also think that wearing something that is more traditionally “put together” but that you aren’t comfortable in is going to make you feel worse. For example, I am short and thin but busty. Any sort of jacket or blazer does nothing for my shape and is not uncomfortable. It’s better for me to get a comfortable sheath dress with sleeves or a really nice cashmere sweater to wear with a skirt or pants. I think very quality items that fit well and are comfortable read better than ill fitting more formal clothes, especially if you’re in a job where you don’t have to wear a suit every day anyway. Nice basic jewelry – stud earrings, watch, wedding ring if you wear one. I also try to remind myself that unless someone looks amazing or awful, I generally don’t remember what they were wearing 2 hours after meeting with them. I do remember if they were prepared and friendly.
Anon
It sounds like your clothes may not fit right or at least you don’t feel comfortable in them. I have a baby pooch, too, and have found that fairly straight midi dresses with a belt at the waist (to create definition above larger tummy and hips) look really great on me now. I can easily put a sweater blazer or boxier Chanel-style blazer over them, switch sandals for block heels, and I look pretty fancy.
I also think a substantial watch + simple earrings looks really put-together and confident.
Also, I keep mascara, lipstick, and toothbrush/paste at work. Some days I just can’t get that done before rushing out of the house and need to do those basic tasks at work and frankly, I have more time and it can feel like a moment to myself and not another rushed task.
Anon
Try a bob. When a female character on tv or in the movies needs to look powerful, they put her in a bob, 100% of the time. If you like it a little longer, ask for a lob.
Anon
Here’s a good article about power dressing and transforming from soft to sharp
https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/9/4/20838798/shiv-roy-succession-hbo-hair-pants-sarah-snook-michelle-matland
Anon
I have flat thin hair and mousse + that magic Revlon hairbrush & dryer in one finally helped. I timed it and it takes my hair exactly 3 minutes to dry (see thin). It makes me look way better than air drying.
Ribena
I also don’t “do” my hair – I told my hairdresser that I need a cut that will look good with a basic blow dry and a tiny bit of product. For me and my hair that’s mostly one length with a couple of choppy layers in the back for movement and very slightly shorter at the front. I get it cut to just the top of shoulder length every three or four months and just let it grow in the meantime.
anon a mouse
I was you a few years ago, right after I had a kid. Here are the things that worked for me:
– Plan outfits the night before. Be thoughtful about accessories and shoes. Iron/steam anything that needs it. This alone upped my confidence a ton because I wasn’t grabbing whatever out of the closet when I was half asleep.
– Be intentional about closet gaps. I started paying attention to friends and colleagues and what I liked about their styles. When I planned outfits, I thought, “what would make this even better?” I kept a list of pieces I wanted, clothing and accessories and jewelry, and upped my budget for them by 20% or so. I am meticulous about fit and use a tailor when needed. Now I have a collection of dresses that fit me perfectly and jewelry that I love.
– I experimented more with makeup. Found an eye cream that has worked wonders and a great concealer for my dark circles. I had a makeover at Bluemercury with an emphasis on makeup that would help my eyes pop, and it really does make me look less tired!
Anon
Can you share eye cream and concealer recs?
anon a mouse
For eye cream, I use Clinique All About Eyes every other day, alternating with the Ordinary’s caffeine serum. The concealer is NYX dark circle concealer.
Telco Lady JD
What a great list! One thing to also keep in mind? Lingerie! A well-fitting bra is SOLID GOLD. It sounds like you’re pretty petite, but (at least on me) a proper fitting bra can make it look like I’ve lost 10 pounds, make ALL of my clothing fit better, and give me better posture. It may be time for a bra update.
Also, I hate to say it…but shapewear makes a huge difference in how I look/feel in dresses. I’m plus sized, so this may not be an issue for you…but I just think it helps to make everything look like it fits much better.
Anon
I’m not OP but I’m plus and interested in which shapewear pieces work for you. I’ve been wearing champion cotton bike shorts under my dresses to deal with chub rub but they’re not shaping in any way, and also discontinued. I really need to step it up.
Telco Lady JD
OH! I have THE BEST recommendation. Miraclesuit “Back Magic.” It comes in black and off white. It’s like bike shorts (with little silicone grippers on the legs) and a tummy shaper all in one. I’ve lost some weight lately, so I’m not really sure what size I’m in now. I used to be a solid 26W in tops and a 22W on bottom and I needed a 4X in this item – it was really hard to find. I ended up finding them on Ebay from a British seller. But I think now I could get away with a 3X. Regardless…DON’T skimp on the size you need. They run a little small…and if it’s too small, it’s really uncomfortable. I don’t wear a dress without this thing. It smooths my “B” belly and alleviates thigh chub rub.
Anon
Ah darn it. I unfortunately can’t wear anything with those silicone strips next to my skin. I get welts. No soma vanishing underwear for me either. :(
Telco Lady JD
Bummer. :-/
Ribena
Do Snag Tights ship to you? I like their shorts and find that I get a tiny bit of shaping from them when I go down a size.
Anon
Not shapewear, but men’s boxer briefs are awesome for chub rub and really comfy as well. I wear a lot of dresses and skirts and commute by bike and they have the appearance of shorts, so I don’t have to be as worried about offending people.
PolyD
I like the Assets knock-off of Spanx. I get them from Kohl’s, Target sometimes/used to have them, too. I get the mid-thigh shaper, I think it’s called. They’re not super-constrictive and made of a cotton blend, so not much more sweaty than regular underpants. I wear them to avoid chub rub and also smooth out my stomach a bit. If you are on the cusp of a size, go with the bigger size to be more comfortable, but still get that smoothing effect.
Another thing – slips. Some young’uns here will say they are not “in style” which I don’t understand at all, but wearing a slip under skirts and dresses make them hang better, which looks more polished. Also if you are wearing tights, there is nothing more un-polished looking than having your skirt creep up your legs because it’s stuck to the tights because you refuse to wear a slip, thinking them to be “old-fashioned.”
I have a couple of Jockey-brand half-slips that I think I got from Target, but they’re not hard to find.
Anon
Iron or steam your clothes and get them tailored, because I bet the issue is fit more than the specific items.
Annony
I think all of the suggestions you’ve gotten are great. I think polish comes across most when there’s a really solid foundation … so literally, foundation garments (excellent-fitting bra), and then clothing with some structure (pencil skirt, suiting, sheath dress, tailored pants, etc.). Once you have a really sharp base, then you add in the “interest” … color, texture, shine, (thank you, Stacy & Clinton!) etc. So, not saying that your entire wardrobe has to be a suit of armour, but I would start with something as a base that’s a structured shape/fabric and fits & flatters you perfectly, and then add on from there.
Ellen
All of us can fix someting, but don’t fret. I think the first thing you should do is to get into a routine; get up and go to sleep at the right time, and always appear fresh by showering in the morning if you have time. Otherwise, shower before you go to sleep. Do NOT let a boyfreind take control over your life; always get your haircut by a professional (I once had a freind do it, and it was a mess). You should get henna treatment to thinken and preserve your hair, and exercise is a key to looking fit. Men love a woman who has all of the above. Also, on the non-physical side, always work to know what you are talking about, as confidence is key. You don’t want to be all looks, no brains. Most men do get intimidated by smart women, but it’s better to find those that can handle it. When you do all of this, you will be both pretty and smart, and that is the key to getting ahead! YAY!
Anon
I am not the OP, but want to look polished and I have been taking active steps towards it. These suggestions are very helpful.
OP
Thank you all. I will try to figure out first steps forward of implementing all these helpful suggestions.
Anon
I feel you. We’ve all been that rumply person running late to your day and behind on everything and worried about the baby in daycare, so you are not alone.
I have 2 suggestions for you.
1) Getting a keratin treatment or some other permanent-ish hair style done. I have thick and unruly/frizzy hair so the solution for me was to get a Japanese treatment and it made my hair lay flat and silky for a year! I didn’t even own a blow dryer. I could literally get out of bed and go to work and my hair would look awesome. No styling products, wash and go at most. A keratin treatment is gentler on the hair and perhaps there is something similar that will not make your hair look more thin than it is.
2) Think back to the last time you looked awesome and what you wore then. For me, it is a particular Boden dress (Ottoman) and I realized that a few things about it made me look polished. Waist seam with pleats below hid my pooch a bit. High neck brought the eye up to my face and made my small cup size look better. Thick fabric had weight and the skirt fell well instead of clinging to me. I wore this to a conference and bought a couple more when I narrowed down what made me look good. Find your holy grail and then build your uniform from there.
NOLA
Hey! I’m also in academia/higher ed and I know that formal to casual can run really differently based on discipline. I range from really nice dresses and heels to skinny jeans, a jacket and Converse (well, today), but I feel like I look polished and put together no matter what I wear.
Some ideas:
-figure out what cuts, sizes, and shapes look flattering on you and stick to that. I wear one style of jeans and looks that I know are flattering (skirt length, neckline, etc) and I give away whatever doesn’t look good, or I send it back.
-I have enough shoes that my shoes are in good condition. Again, I wear shoes that fit well and are comfortable but stylish. Anything from boots to heels to sneakers.
-always wear makeup and wear lipstick, in a flattering shade. Lipstick can up the polished quotient for sure.
-a hairstyle that’s fast and easy but looks good on you. I hate my hair, but trust my hair stylist and generally feel like my hair looks good, despite its limitations.
– jewelry that’s easy but looks polished. I have hoops or drop earrings in different sizes in neutrals (black diamond, etc)
-I don’t wear anything that has to be ironed.
NOLA
Oh and one more thing! I generally will wear some kind of topper – a jacket these days. I’ll wear a faux leather motorcycle jacket or a gray denim jacket or something that pulls together my outfit without being a blazer (I don’t look good in them). I rarely wear cardigans anymore unless they fit well and can be buttoned in the middle. Otherwise, I feel frumpy.
Leaning out as an associate
I’m a biglaw associate in my 2nd year. I’ve never had any partnership intentions and hope to not be in law for longer than I need to to pay off my law school debt and build some savings, but have obviously not expressed this to anyone at my firm.I have always been more of the “work to live” rather than “live to work” mindset, and have struggled with depression from working the often insane hours required of me, not just for billable work but for client events and firm events, etc. I recently got a dog and it has caused my priorities to shift even more, such that I find it difficult to care about my job at all. I have been doing my work well and meeting deadlines, but I’ve only been doing the bare minimum and trying to work super efficiently so that I can be home with my dog more (ie. no longer seeking out work, not signing up for professional organization events, not doing any non-billable writing or attending client events unless I am directly asked to). I also have entirely stopped making an effort with my colleagues (who I don’t particularly like but had been making an effort to be included, going for coffees and drinks, etc.). Basically I show up, only talk to people when I have to for files, do my work, and leave as soon as I’m done for the day. Is this a recipe for getting fired? I do need this job to fund my life and my dog’s life, and have no interest in job shopping again – I hope to stay at this firm until I can eventually quit law – so I have a lot of anxiety around losing my job. I am also single so raising my dog and trying to pay off debt/save up money without the benefit of someone else’s income to take the sting out of rent and living expenses (HCOL city). But I really have no energy/desire/motivation to immerse myself in this job the way that (it seems) all associates do. It’s simply a job to me and nothing more. Anyone tried leaning out while super junior and avoided getting the boot?
The original Scarlett
I think it’s pretty hard to do what you’re describing and not eventually find yourself having a conversation you’d rather not have, probably sooner rather than later. IME, there’s some room on the non-billable stuff, but only if you’re at max capacity on the billable work. Kindly, you might want to reconsider your approach to your peers, they will be a big part of your network as time goes on, and even if you think you plan to quit law, life is long and you might change your mind on that. The best way to lean out of biglaw is to leave it – suck it up while you’re there, and if you’re over it now, look at what options you have. Smaller firms, other big law firms, in-house, all of those potentially have different cultures, people, and they still pay well enough to get rid of debt.
Ellen
Agreed. You are not going to be kept around beyond a few years, b/c you are collecting big buckaroos b/c of the thought you will add value that is worth more then they are paying you. This is a BUSINESS, and as such, you do not appear to want to go the extra yard, let alone the extra mile. Your best bet now if you don’t want to change, is to save as much as you can NOW, and try and find a life partner (man or woman) who will be able to support you when the inevitable occurs, and you can go and relax with your dog. If you are to have a child, get started on it now. Find a man and make sure he is decent b/c his sperm will be necessary to procreate. If he is a looser, DTMFA! If you already have a boyfreind, start planning NOW, so that you will be with child before you leave the job. The firm will have to pay for your maternity leave, so all the more reason to get started NOW! Good luck to you, as you will likely be moving on from the legal field soon.
Anonymous
What is any of this?!? You don’t need a big law income to raise a dog. If you want to work a job 9-6, go to a smaller firm. Move. Yes. Not meeting expectations at your current firm will get you fired eventually. Go get some therapy.
Junie
Nah, you’ll be fine. The people I know of who got “fired” as junior associates either (1) really aggressively confronted/argued with partners at the firm or (2) were baldly incompetent at the work they did do. What you’re describing is basically what I did — billed around 1600 hours a year, went home as soon as I could reasonably do so, didn’t do any happy hours with colleagues, granted I did do some summer recruiting events but only the ones I personally thought would be fun. I think at most BigLaw firms, you’re safe for four-ish years if you do this. That’s enough time to pay off your loans.
Junie
To tie things up, I left my BigLaw firm voluntarily after just under 4 years on very good terms (I believe they’d hire me back), went to another firm for another few years, then ended up in-house, where I am now. I’m thrilled with the trajectory my career has taken. No one is going to set boundaries for you; you have to do it yourself. It a job is demanding something of you that you’re not willing to give, that’s not the right job for you. Doesn’t make them evil or you a slack, just is what it is.
anon
This seems overly optimistic to me. OP, a lot depends on your firm, how you rank hours-wise and work quality-wise compared with your peers, your practice group, etc. I agree more with the original Scarlett- you can probably skate by like this for a while, but you are putting yourself in a risky position. Big law loves to see a perverse level of dedication. As soon as the people you work for get a wiff that you’re not One of Us, that reputation will stay with you. Moreover, as associate salaries continue to get higher, associates seem to be getting pushed out earlier and earlier. Will you be ready to leave law after 4 years? Getting out-right fired takes something pretty bad, but what will happen is they sit down with you, tell you it’s not working out, and you have 6-9 months to find somewhere else to go.
Anon
This is very firm dependent. At my firm, a junior associate only billing 1600 hours would be taked to after about a year and official fired after 18 months, assuming the practice was not otherwise dead. In addition, we are probably entering a recession within the next year. Firms will be looking to trim the ranks, and the easiest way to do that is to fire associates who are not even close to 100% utilized.
January
+1 – what you can expect varies a lot by firm, by practice area, and probably even by how well-liked you are within your particular group.
The original Scarlett
Agreed, I think law firm survival is a little like the contractor rule of three – the options are: bill a lot, do good work, well liked. If you’re 2 of 3, odds of survival as long as you want are good, but otherwise you’re looking at having problems.
The original Scarlett
I should modify, survival as an associate, partner is different
January
Yeah, at my old firm, I saw several people linger for several years, but I’m also aware of at least one person who was asked to leave at her 2-year review. The ones who are asked to leave early were pretty open about flouting the firm’s norms and I think there were questions about whether they were actually getting their work done.
Anon
Same. I left after 4 years with good but not glowing reviews. You will be let go in a downturn (but so will lots of superstar associates) but it’s very hard to get Fired with a capital F if you do your assigned work.
Anon
Billing only 1600 at my firm consistently would definitely get you fired. And make you not eligible for bonus which would make paying down loans harder
Leaning out as an associate
I should add that I think I am on track to hit my billable target for the year, but I certainly won’t be knocking it out of the park and will be in the lower range relative to the other associates (at least the ones on my floor who appear to always be at work and definitely bill way, way over the target).
Junie
To me, there’s a lot of room between “working as much as my hardworking peers” and “fired”. The firm sets a target for a reason. It would be hard to make the case for firing you just for “only” making your target (and I doubt they would try).
Anon
Eh this depends on the firm. There are always going to people who go above and beyond but if you are 400 hours less than the next associate and 500 less than the average, even if you’re above the target, it’s going to raise eyebrows and questions why you are such an outlier. If you’re in the mix but on the low end, agree no one cares
Junie
I mean, if there’s a firm where the “average” associate billables are 500+ hours above the “target”, that sounds like utter hell on earth and OP could consider it a blessing to be fired.
I think the “average” billables in most firms is below-target, which is why they set the target — it’s aspirational. But no one talks about how they missed the target because, why would you? And the firm has an interest in every associate thinking every OTHER associate is working harder than they actually are.
LawyrChk
@Junie, I don’t think this is quite right. Maybe at your old firm, but at my old one (which would be considered “lifestyle” biglaw, you’d absolutely be at risk if you missed the billable goal and weren’t in a group that was slow for a good reason. The goal wasn’t aspirational – it was how the firm paid your salary and overhead. You miss the number, you miss promotion, bonus, and were at risk of being pushed out at the next review if things didn’t improve. And for those missing hours, that next review as 6 months later.
Junie
That may well be, and I do agree it’s safest to hit the target. My response was directed at the person above me who indicated that it would be possible to be above target and still be in danger because you’re 500 hours below the “average” associate. To me, that seems vanishingly unlikely to ever happen.
anon
If you’re on track to make target and are doing good work but aren’t particularly enthusiastic, in a decent economy you’ll be fine although you’ll be at higher risk if the firm ever has to do layoffs. It may raise eyebrows if everyone else is above target, and you won’t be considered a star, but they’re not going to fire you if you’re technically in good standing and your work quality is fine, unless there’s economic pressure to do so. Candidly, many, many people have done exactly what you’re doing and lasted 5-7 years in biglaw.
Source: am a biglaw partner.
NYCer
Agree with this. You can last a surprisingly long time in big law doing what you’re doing, OP.
My story
Agreed. I was at an AmLaw 20 firm, had two kids (6 month mat leave each), and barely made my hours (except the first year, when I killed it). However, I was pretty social and people liked me. My work product was fine to mediocre because I just hated the work. I lasted 4.5 years before I was counseled out.
I landed an amazing job within 2 months and have a dream job right now.
PineapplePrincess
I did this and left big law at year 5. The only problem with what you are doing (and the problem I experienced) is that billable hours is the antithesis of efficiency. I was much more efficient than some of my colleagues in the same group, at the same level, so my hours were always ‘lower’ than them. I never said no to work but didn’t always actively seek out either (my firm wasn’t really a seek-out work type anyway). My last year there, as I was considering my exit strategy, I had three ‘talks’ with the assigning partner about my hours. At the third talk I finally snapped back and told him that I never said no to work and if he wanted me to do more work, he had to assign me more work but it’s not my fault I’m more efficient. Which shut him up :) But I digress – my point is, don’t confuse efficiency with doing the same amount of work as others because unfortunately it’s not, and it’s not what counts. But I’m happily on the other side, in-house, in an awesome job, and with a great dog! You can totally stay this course, just be aware. And get a dog walker.
Anonymous
If you want to leave law, what do you want to do? Try to put some effort into networking events and maintaining relationships with your colleagues as those things can lead to opportunities outside law as well. Focus on where you are going, not where you are and think about how you can use your current job to get there.
Never too many shoes...
I am torn between wondering if this is for real and gently suggesting that you need therapy. If “raising” a dog has left you unable to muster up the energy for even the most basic work tasks (which include taking on non-billable work and some socializing with clients and peers), then you need to get out now both for yourself and for the person who would kill for the firm space you are taking up.
Junie
I didn’t read her post so much as that she’s “unable” to do the work tasks as that she doesn’t want to — and the dog providing yet another reason to go ahead and get home at night is contributing to that lack of desire. To me, that’s perfectly healthy.
Maybe the person who “would kill for the firm space” she is taking up should have gotten better grades in law school, and they could have gotten a firm job on their own merits.
Anon
I’m sure her peers would love for someone who would kill for the office space to take her spot. Someone has to do the work she’s not doing.
Junie
I mean, what “work she’s not doing”? The more likely scenario is that you could flip that around and say that there’s only so much work to go around, so people who are billing 2300-2400 hours per year are selfish, since they are taking work from someone who might need it to hit their billable target. The idea that OP billing a few hundred more hours per year would somehow lighten the load on her colleagues (and they would want that) is false.
Anon
I mean you can say it’s false but I am in this scenario. There’re are two associate who consistently bills 400-500 hours less than the rest of us. We all wish they would both take on a little more work so we would have less to do. Also, with that big of a delta there is definitely a risk of getting managed out. People with significantly lower hours raise the question of why their hours are so much lower and absent special circumstances, the only two explanations ever assumed are they are lazy or not good so people don’t want to staff them.
anon
Whether staffing is sufficient to cover workload is the partners’ problem.
Anonymous
OP here – thanks for this, Junie. It baffles my mind how eager people on this board are to throw out the “go to therapy”. This reply is also to Anon at 9:14, who seems like a really delightful person…It was actually my therapist (who I see every 2 weeks) who suggested I get the dog, and I need a high income not just to raise the dog but because of my huge law school debt, high rent, high costs of daily daycare for my dog, etc. all of which would make it very difficult to stay afloat with a lower salary (and it would take much, much longer to pay off the debt than I want it to take and would be impossible to save anything). In no way am I unable to do the ‘extra’ work tasks – I simply don’t care to because it’s not a priority to me. Getting my dog has changed my ability to stay late because I need to go home and let him out, and I don’t sleep as much because he doesn’t sleep the night yet – but that’s the extent of it in terms of being “unable” to devote myself to the job. The crux of my point re the dog is that it has caused me to care even less about my job than I already did. I have a very full life outside of work and would much rather devote my time to things I find fulfilling (such as doing yoga, reading novels, seeing friends and family, spending time with my new dog and training him) than to all the extra stuff on top of the work I’m assigned, and my query is about whether anyone has done that as an associate and succeeded at keeping their biglaw job.
Anon for this
This is a different tone than your post above, OP. I agree with Original Scarlett. This is a dangerous game. There are of course exceptions to every rule, but most associates who try the “do just enough to meet requirements” approach get managed out.
Junie
Haters gonna hate, my friend. People who feel trapped or regret their own choices are the ones most likely to lash out at those who are making a different choice for themselves.
And also, “go to therapy” as a pejorative is pretty stupid. It’s like telling someone, “go to the dentist!” Okay…. I will, because I want to have healthy teeth. Good tip!
Anon
You sound like you have built a life that is based on having a high income. Separate and apart from whether your firm is going to ask you to leave before you are ready for it (which, unless you are on a 18 month or less timeline for being ready to leave the firm, I think they will), but how are you going to support yourself and this lifestyle after you leave law? There is so much in your post about how you hate law (which, how do you even know? You have had one legal job for 1 year. There are tons of other legal jobs out there.) But nothing about what you want to more towards. There are very few jobs that pay enough to support this type of lifestyle and most of them require long hours.
Anonymous
I’m that horrible 9:14 anon and all of that is lovely; and as a second year big law associate they pay you all that money to work all the Time. You don’t have time for a puppy and shouldn’t have gotten one. If you want a lower key job, go get one!
busybee
So…you’d rather do fun stuff than work. Um, so would pretty much everyone else. Sometimes in life you have to do things you don’t care to do. It’s a bit baffling that your therapist would advise you to get a dog when it seems to just be adding to your stress, expenses, and work apathy, but that’s between you two. Doing the bare minimum certainly won’t help you keep your job. If I had high costs and loans like you, I’d be working my tail off to be a stellar associate so my income would be as high as possible for as long as it took to pay down the debt.
Junie
Anon at 10:27 literally what are you talking about? How has she built a life based on having a high income? Sounds to me like she wants a high income to pay off law school debt ASAP, which typically goes along with having an otherwise-modest lifestyle.
Not to sit here and WK for OP all morning, but everything she’s posted seems eminently reasonable to me. Is this board just crawling with people who wanted a BigLaw job and couldn’t get it, and are bitter that someone who did takes it for granted/doesn’t think it’s the fulfillment of her life’s dream? What is even going on?
Anonymous
I mean,if I’m being honest, I disagree with OP and Junie here. OP is basically saying, will I be fired if I don’t fully do the job I was hired for? i think the answer is yes. May not be tomorrow, but BigLaw wants you to crush your hours, do non-billable work, attend client events and belong to professional organizations. Lots of people don’t want to play that game (me included!) but I don’t think it’s reasonable to think that they will just let a junior associate voluntarily “opt out” of actual or presumed job responsibilities, still collect a very large paycheck, and not have it catch up with you. Putting therapy aside, I think you would be much happier in a smaller market with a MCOL or LCOL, a good salary and good work (reflective of your skills), and time to live your life. That’s what many of us are doing right now!
anon
You guys, she doesn’t have a moral obligation to kill herself working. If other associates are overburdened, that’s the partners’ issue to manage. They can see workload. They can tell her to work more. If they tell her she has to work more, she can quit, or she can keep not doing it until they let her go. But she doesn’t owe it to the partners, or other associates, or to any of you very unhappy-sounding anonymous posters to do any of this. It’s TOTALLY OKAY to decide you don’t really give a crap about your biglaw job and to ask how what the odds are that you can skate by for a few years doing only the minimum. The idea that it’s somehow offensive is everything that’s wrong with biglaw culture. It’s a job, not a calling, and the partners aren’t your friends, and if you can find a way to game the system for a few years, OP, I salute you.
BTW, I’m a partner in an AmLaw 50 firm.
As for my firm, we fire people all the time for performance reasons – but those are based on work quality or being well below our good standing target. If OP’s work is good and she’s making target or close to it, she would be fine even at my firm until she hit the up or out point, which is seven years. She wouldn’t be considered partnership material, but she wouldn’t be let go.
Anon
junie – I don’t think posters (at least me) are bitter. I am in biglaw. I’m just trying to point out that this is a dangerous game especially when it feels like we are heading into a recession. Advising OP that she may get pushed out if she does this isn’t bitter, it’s sound advice from people who were around for the last recession and saw people end up in really tough spots because they got blindsighted. OP may be fine. She may not be. But preparing for the worst case scenario is never a bad thing. Nor is the advice that she should figure out what she wants to do after she leaves law
Anon
+ 10000000000000 to anon at 10:44
anon
Agree with Anon at 10:46 completely. Junie, glad it worked out for you to coast. But an unequivocal “you’ll be fine” isn’t wise advice without knowing more about OP’s situation. I don’t think many people are saying that OP must kill herself, or that she *must* care about her job, we are just warning her that her strategy may get her pushed out sooner than she wants, based on our experience in biglaw. There is a difference between stating: “Biglaw expects you to exceed your on paper expectations, beware” and “you should, and should want to, exceed your on paper expectations to please your Biglaw firm.”
Anonymous
Okay, so I have raised both a puppy and an actual human child, and I think you are overly obsessed with your puppy. It’s okay not to want to spend your life working–that’s why I did not even interview for biglaw jobs–but it’s pretty weird to have your entire life revolve around a pet.
Anon
Other than networking purposes, wouldn’t you want to build some relationships with colleagues and superiors that want to see you succeed? BigLaw knows there is a decent # of associates who are in the same exact boat as you: want to pay off their loans and live comfortably for a few years, then transition. But at the end of the day, you have this (probably) highly respected firm on your resume and for what? Who is going to be your reference from that firm? Where do you see yourself in 5 years, then 10 years? Now work backwards. You won’t want to regret this time/experience that, as someone else, others would kill for. If you aren’t working it to your advantage, the fact that you even posted this question is proof that they are just using you and you’re letting the BigLaw machine win. You can both get what the other thinks is the best case scenario. Do good work, meet your billable, and make it so others want to see you succeed and will help you get there.
Also, it’s 2019. Ask a higher up if you can bring your dog to work. There’s always dogs running around the Hill and NYC offices. Your BigLaw firm might take this as a change to become the BigCoolLaw firm. People might scoff at this…but hey, of the things they could let you go for, it’s not asking to bring your puppy to work while you’re training it.
Anon
“Go to therapy” isn’t an insult, it’s good advice that applies to a lot of people in a lot of situations. If you don’t take it seriously because you think it’s advice that’s given too much, well, that’s your problem.
Anonymous
Girl, you hate your job. It’s okay – many of us ended up in jobs we hated after we graduated. I’m also going to hazard a guess that you’re one of those people who drove, drove, drove to get top grades, get into top schools, get the BigLaw job, and now it’s like – now what? Now what is, you find something else to do that doesn’t make you miserable. You may have to put off paying off your loans and you may have to move. Your new job won’t pay as much as your BigLaw job but hopefully you will be more engaged with it. Gently, unless you marry a really rich guy there is not going to be a life where you get to do yoga and play with your dog all day. I am sorry if you don’t like this, but you do sound significantly depressed. The dog isn’t going to solve that for you. If you’re not on an antidepressant, think about it. And then think about finding a career coach that can help you figure out your next move. You’re not doing yourself or your employer any favors by staying on when you feel like this.
Anon
Can you do more work at home after you leave for your dog? This is what I do on days my husband is traveling and can’t be home at 5:30 for the dog. The dog will go to daycare once/week but if he’s gone a full week I leave at 5 on the other days, let the dog out, play for a bit, make myself and the dog some food, and then log back in to do more work.
Anon
OP never said she was only billing 1600 or that her hours were far below other associates’ hours. I worked for five years at an AmLaw 50 firm with an 1850 minimum to remain in good standing; 1950 for bonus eligibility. I only hit the bonus target once, most years I was in the 1800-1900 range and one year I was below 1700. I was always promoted to the next year/salary, and my reviews were generally good. I left voluntarily after almost 5 years. Many associates were gunning for partner and billed over 2200, but it was fine not to do that. I think large law firms know they can’t promote everyone to partner, so they’re actually happy with junior to mid-level associates who sort of self-select off the partnership track.
Anon
I agree with most of the posters above that this is not a good idea in biglaw as a junior associate. If you are looking for a job where you can lean out, I would recommend government – no requirement of happy hours, work social events, or even really developing relationships with your colleagues, plus reasonable work hours. I went to government precisely for this reason, including being able to spend time with my dog and my older parents. But it sounds like that won’t support your lifestyle, so idk.
Junie
I can see how people would have a vested interest in believing it’s not possible to lean out in BigLaw because if it is, why did they give up all that money and go into government instead?
Anon
Junie, sweetie, the advice people are giving here is not a direct attack on your or your experiences. I think you need to pull back a little bit to see that.
Junie
I hear you. But I can also say that a government employee has no direct experience of how things actually work in a BigLaw firm, only their preconceptions of how they work which led them to take the government job in the first place.
Anon
Junie I don’t know why you assume the people commenting here aren’t in biglaw.
I’m in biglaw and have seen people “soft fired” (the whole you have 6 months to find another job thing) at two different biglaw firms for doing what OP is doing. Not every firm is this way but I have no idea what OPs firm is like. It’s awesome that you were able to coast for a few years but it’s not good advice to assume that everyone can do what you did or what you did will fly at every firm.
I’m not bitter. I’m just realistic.
anon
Yup. I can tell you – it is entirely possible. I’ve worked at 3 biglaw firms, and they are fairly notorious about not wanting to fire people, actually, and someone who is at or very close to billable target? I’ve never seen someone get fired in that situation but I have 100% seen people coast at 1850 for 5 years. That changes in a recession, and yes, you will get managed out eventually – but managing out typically happens when you get closer to partnership consideration than year 2. If the OP is aggressive about paying down her debt, she could be done with student loans before that’s even an issue (I was paid off by year 5).
You just have to not care about how you’re viewed by partners and other associates – but it sounds like the OP doesn’t care.
Anon
Yeah I guess I am just surprised by all the push back to OP. Law firms need worker bees! Will they fire you if you’re way below hours or doing terrible work? Sure. But an associate who is doing good quality work and meeting hours expectations on average has a pretty long future at a law firm, even if it’s not one that ends in partnership. Not everybody is a rainmaker, large law firms need people to just put their heads down and work!
DCR
I fully believe it is possible to “lean out” at biglaw, if by that you mean not doing the social stuff, not joining committees, and not making friends with your co-workers. I think it is very risky to only do 75% of the hours requirement, which is what 1600 hours would be at my firm. I’ve seen many associates get fired for not making hours who had significantly more hours than that but didn’t hit the required hours.
I’m not saying that OP can’t decide to take that risk, that choice is completely up to her. I’m saying that you are giving bad advice by acting like it is impossible that OP would get fired for low hours.
Junie
Oh totally agree, I would advise hitting the billable target and then being done with it. The 1600 hours was to show an extreme example of an outlier that still turned out fine.
Anon
OP said she is meeting her hours.
anon
Junie, it shocks me that you are so myopically stuck on the notion that what worked for you at your firm with your practice when you were an associate will definitely work for everyone, and everyone who has a different perspective is just trying to protect her precious feelings. It’s getting old.
Anonymous
Oh boy… Happy to add one more opinion to the bunch. (Worked in big law for two years, mid-size law for 5 years, and now in government.)
Just meet your hours target. If you do that, the chances are good that you’ll be fine until you decide on your own to leave. Is there a chance that you could be laid off in a recession? Sure. But that chance is there regardless. Junior associates are not hard to find, and there’s a bunch of new ones every year.
Assuming you meet your hours target (or are only a bit short), you owe your firm nothing. The hand wringing and pearl clutching coming from those concerned about your colleagues who may end up billing slightly more if you bill slightly less is unnecessary…for a couple of reasons. (1) This is why there are bonuses. (2) They are also perfectly capable of building similar boundaries as you. Yes, big law firms pay their associates a lot of money because they expect you to bill a lot of your time…but they do not own you, and they do not get to expect you to become a martyr on their behalf.
I agree with others that you shouldn’t give up networking entirely. Eventually you will need a new job. The people that you meet through your current one (coworkers, clients, friends of same) could prove helpful in that endeavor. I also agree that, if you haven’t, you should work on setting yourself up a home office so that you can put in some hours at home with your pup. I spent a lot of time at a desk in my home office with my dog napping next to me – and she couldn’t have been happier.
Anon
Honestly, leaning out in the way you describe you want to do will eventually get you “pushed out”. If you’re hitting your minimum hours and doing decent but not out of the park work, the firm won’t be able to find a way to fire you but work will start slowly drying up, partners and peers will start seeking you out less, and once you don’t have personal favor or the hours, you’ll have the “be gone in 3-6 mths conversation”. The minimum in biglaw actually requires you to do more than bill hours and go home, and by leaning out that much, you aren’t meeting the basic requirements.
What you really need to do is NOT see how long you can coast, but start figuring out what’s next and how to move there. 1) I recommend a career coach that may be able to help you with options that are different enough but still use your degree and nets you a good salary, which may still include practicing law, there are sooo many non-biglaw legal jobs that you could actually enjoy – YOU SHOULDN’T BE RUNNING AWAY FROM BIG LAW YOU SHOULD BE RUNNING TO SOMETHING, 2) you need to start squeezing out of those golden handcuffs, you’re leading a life that requires a very high income but don’t want to do what that high income requires, that does not add up – no doggy daycare (a dog walker once a day towards the end of the day is just fine and costs a lot less), no more expensive yoga studio – practice at home or in low cost/free community classes, 3) start scaling back all unnecessary costs.
In general I just think you’re depressed and because of that don’t have a good understanding of what your options actually are. You need to think about this more.
anon
This is really sound advice, especially the running away from biglaw vs. running into something. If you’ve already figured out you don’t want to do biglaw, use the time you have to figure out what you DO want to do. I’m in biglaw and know tons of people who have left, the ones who are the happiest are the ones who figured out what they wanted to do and then made decisions to get them closer to that goal. The ones who are the least happy are the ones who either picked the next job based on the least amount of salary cut or were given the “you have 3-6 months to get out” talk and had to take a job they weren’t thrilled about because they HAD to take a job.
Anonymous
I’m OP. Thanks to both anons and to everyone else above who has given advice re figuring out what I want to do after law. I actually have a very clear idea of exactly what I want to do because it is what I have wanted to do my whole life (not getting into what it is or why I ended up as a lawyer instead), but I haven’t hammered out the mechanics of that transition or how significant a dip in standard of living I can/will experience when I make the switch. A career coach is a great idea and one I will definitely pursue. However, for right now, I’m mainly concerned with being able to bide my time in biglaw by simply meeting the lowest bar (being my billable target) until I am financially able to leave, and whether that is even possible. Thanks to all who have weighed in on whether it is – lots to chew on.
Anon
I haven’t waded through the last round of replies, but I think you should consider job searching. A position with state or federal government could be a better fit lifestyle-wise, especially if you move to a lower-COL area. I know you have reasons for not doing that, but think about it.
Was in a similar boat
I had a baby 18 months after joining my big law firm. I did all the work I was given, and was also trying to appear proactive in getting more. But, I left the office everyday between 4:30-5 and worked at night if need be. Mentally, I had checked out but I still needed the pay. I had no issues and good (not stellar) reviews. I had another baby my 4th year and then went in-house. I did not go to most networking events.
I think you can get by if you meet the hours and do good work (for the work you do) for 4-5 years. However, I would start thinking NOW about your next step. It can take a while to find an in-house job and I presume even longer to find a suitable non-law job.
Anon
I think your case is different, however. 1) you admit you tried to appear proactive in getting more work, and 2) you had the excuse of a child that you left at 5 everyday, and you worked at night. It’s not great, but people do give you a lot more leeway when you have a child – they understand you have limited time and need to prioritize. I’m sorry but “raising” a dog is in no way the same ballpark as having kids. As a young, single person, OP will be expected to do more because she has the time, a dog is simply not an excuse.
Anonymous
I was in Big Law for six years. In that time, only one person that I know of was “fired” in the sense that they were let go suddenly and left with no job. That was a first year associate who had failed the bar twice, was not doing good work (and I think also not meeting his hours although not 100% sure about that) and had said sexist/harassing things to several people, including me. He was let go about 6 or 7 months after starting. Frankly, he never should have been extended an offer (his inappropriate comments to me and others began while he was a summer) but I think the firm wanted to maintain their 100% offer rate for summer associates.
Behind that, I don’t know anyone who was fired suddenly. I know people who were sort of gently managed out, but they were quite senior (sixth years and up, I’d say) and it was a gradual process, beginning with increasingly critical reviews and eventually leading to a conversation in which they were counseled that the firm was not a place for them long term. The person always left with their head held high, going to a new job, often in-house. So I think you don’t have much to worry about it if your reviews are good, and even then it should be a soft landing.
Kyla
A friend who I’m not super close with got married a few weeks ago. Most of our mutual friends live in a different city but we live in the same city. I wasn’t invited to the wedding (which is 100% fine and reasonable). Am I expected to bring a wedding gift or something when I see them next?
Anon
No.
Anon
No… just congratulate her and ask about the wedding.
SSJD
No. You don’t need to give a gift.
Anonymous
No.
Junie
No.
Anon
Definitely not, it has never even occurred to me to do this.
ATL rette
I’m a giver, so I might do a small gift (bed bath and beyond gift card for ~$20 or so) and a card, or a bottle of wine or something, but you’re definitely not expected to.
Anon
You could send a card (no check) before you see them if you genuinely feel like congratulating them. It would be a nice gesture but not required.
Anon
Honestly, there were quite a few people we couldn’t invite to our wedding due to numbers and if one of them gave me a gift anyway it would be sweet but would just make me feel even more guilty.
natural fiber tops
What are your recommended stores or brands for non-poly tops? I am specifically looking for gray, which is tough apparently, though I’m also looking for navy and olive. I prefer non-button downs. I’ve checked Amour Vert, Everlane, Nordstrom, and Boden. Banana Republic and Ann Taylor seem to only have the poly-style crepe shirts. Anywhere else I should look?
MagicUnicorn
I find a lot of cute silk pullovers on Poshmark. Current favorites are by Ann Taylor and J. Crew, so at some point in time these brands must make them. Do check that they are actually silk if you look there, though, because some sellers describe things as “silky” when they are just polyester.
anon
They pop up on sierra trading post from time to time–that’s one of the only places I can afford to buy silk.
Fairly happy with this one I just wore for the first time yesterday:
https://www.sierra.com/pendleton-khaki-four-pocket-silk-blend-woven-shirt-for-women~p~635cd/?filterString=s~silk%2F
Anonymous
Boden’s Carey and Ravello tops are a mix of viscose (rayon) and silk, not poly. Not sure what colors they have now though.
Anon
For navy, search for Pendleton sueded silk blouse. I have ordered it in both full and short sleeves. I am yet to receive it.
Anon
For navy, this may work
https://www.pendleton-usa.com/product/womens-sueded-silk-mockneck-top-244091.html?rv=true&mrkgcl=846&mrkgadid=1497501219&adpos=1o5&creative=46149283572&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_q6G3q3s5AIVAcZkCh1GswfMEAQYBSABEgK8C_D_BwE
https://www.pendleton-usa.com/product/womens-sueded-silk-short-sleeve-top-10087.html?dwvar_10087_color=6720&cgid=W110#start=17&cgid=W110
Anon
Foxcroft makes basic tops in 100% cotton. I don’t wear that style but I do wear the 3/4 sleeve linen tunic button front shirt as a light jacket in warm weather.
Anonymous
I found grey silk tops at Rack, they were Elie Tahari and Lafayette 148. For navy I would try Brooks Brothers.
Anon
You can get a lot of cotton tops at Macy’s or J C Penney, brands such as Karen Kane.
OP
Love that Pendleton recommendation, looks perfect! Thanks!
anon
IME, pendleton blouses are cut tight through the shoulders for their size.
Carrots
What do you use to control flyaway hair on your second/third day from washing? My second day hair is still good with a little dry shampoo, but that doesn’t address the flyaways I tend to get. I’m looking for something that won’t stiffen the whole hair, just kind of weigh little bits down.
Abby
I use a smooth serum – I’ve used one from tresemme and currently use one from garnier fructis. I’ve also used moroccan oil.
Anonymous
Just wash your hair
PolyD
It’s 1819, I mean, 2019. We don’t wash our hair more than twice a week anymore!
Anonymous
I can’t stand this trend. Why is it a badge of honor to refuse to wash one’s hair? If it truly doesn’t need to be washed, fine. Nobody will know or care. But if you need products and strategies to camouflage how dirty and disheveled it is, just wash it.
PolyD
Nice to know I am not the only one who feels that way. I understand that some hair types do not need washing every day but yes – if you need products and strategies to camouflage how dirty and disheveled it is – JUST WASH YOUR HAIR!!!
Anon
Haha! I have to wash my hair every day or it looks like crap. I do wish I had the type of hair that allowed me to go longer, but I definitely don’t, so I hate that it’s such a prevalent beauty tip.
anon
For real. Cannot stand that manky, gross hair is such a thing nowadays. Trust me, you’re not fooling anyone!
Anon
So glad someone said it. I wash my hair basically every day otherwise it looks greasy and dirty. Especially if I’ve worked out. I don’t understand the no wash trend.
Ribena
I get this on day 1 after washing my hair – british hair and high humidity….
anne-on
I dunno why nobody seems to use gel anymore, but this is what I think it’s perfect for! Take a tiny bit (like dime sized) rub it on your palms, and then gently smooth down the fly-aways. When I get a blow out they tend to do this with hairspray instead and I just find it much less effective than simply using gel.
Anon
I use a mousse for this, but I use it on the hair when first styling. It keeps the hair free of flyaways for days but doesn’t weight down too much. Redken, bumble and bumble, and living proof have good options. If your hair has a little texture to it (i.e. not really curly but not straight and fine either), I go for the mousses that they sell in the “textured” or “ethnic” hair section section – jane carter solution and giovvani has a really good mousse for this (they are both sold at target and whole foods).
Anon
Yep, gel. I have the spray kind (one from Herbal Essences the other I can’t remember) and it’s perfect for this.
BB
I use Kiehl’s Creme with Silk Groom. It’s way less sticky than gel and does almost exactly what you’re looking for – weighs the bits down without clumping them together too much.
Ribena
I rotate through various products, all of which I describe as ‘gunk’ but which tend to describe themselves as gel creams or similar – things like John Frieda Secret Weapon. I tend to use them pretty much straight after washing and blow drying in order to look polished (think Hermione Granger at the Yule Ball)
Anon
Huh, I only get flyaways on the day I wash my hair, because it’s dry and too clean. By the second day the natural oils make it look smoother. Are you brushing your hair with a bristle brush to distribute the oils?
I don’t go more than every other day between washes so I can’t really advise on day 3 and subsequent.
Bariatric furniture
I need to get some new furniture, mainly chairs, and they need to support a 300+ pound obese person. I think couches and beds can handle this weight but I’m not sure re chairs. Are there special stores to consider or ways to check before buying? Some in-laws who visit regularly are quite large and I want them to be able to sit without worrying and also be comfortably able to sit.
Anonymous
I recall that Wayfair had this info when I was buying chairs for a vacation rental.
anne-on
When looking I’d also consider the seat depth, seat fill material, and the type of springs. Down can (and will) compress more easily than down wrapped ‘envelope’ style around thicker latex/foam. If the seat is too deep it can be very hard to get up from, or the front of the couch or chair will get indentations from legs pushing in on the material if the person sits very far back in the seat. Springs that are hand tied are sturdier than springs that are stapled in. Sadly, this all means you’re likely looking at sturdier, better made, and more expensive options.
First Layer
What do you wear under your sweater blazers? Drapey front cardigans?
Anon
T-shirts, pullover blouses
Anon
Long tunic style tops from Eileen Fisher, mostly woven silk. I’m tall so this proportion works for me.
DC Monday
I will be in Chicago this weekend. When I travel, I love to visit women’s clothing boutiques that carry smaller, more unusual lines. Any recommendations for independent stores worth checking out? I am a mid-40s size 10, so I’m looking for options that cater to a more “mature” customer. Thanks!
kk
Will you be downtown or in the burbs? Skandal in hubbard woods is great for this. Depending on your budget, Ikram (a fav of Michelle Obama) is lovely but also very high end
DC Monday
Thanks! I will be downtown. I would be fine going to the closer-in suburbs. Winnekta is probably a little farther than I would like–but I do like the town and Skandal seems like what I’m looking for!
Anon
What’s making your life run more smoothly these days?
Clementine
Deleting the Facebook App from my phone. Too much wasted time that ultimately stressed me out. I have to intentionally check it now, it’s not a mindless scroll.
Ball Jar reusable ‘Leak-Proof’ lids. Every day, I bring a jar of (homemade, delicious, veggie filled) soup to work for lunch. I don’t have to think about it, the lids don’t leak, it’s no plastic or packaging waste, and it’s one less thing I need to think about. I have a variety that I keep in the wide mouth 12 oz size and they’re perfect. Win from the monetary, dietary/health, convenience, and environmental standpoints.
Anon
How do you like eating soup from the jars? I loooooove soup and want to adopt this method! I assume the jars are totally microwave safe, but are they way too hot to carry back to your desk comfortably?
Clementine
I keep a ceramic bowl at my desk, actually! I use that and real silverware and just wash at work.
Eating out of a bowl helps me feel more satiated and like I ate something ‘real’. It helps curb mindless snacking post-lunch.
Anonymous
Do you drink the soup directly from the jar? Or pour into a microwaveable bowl?
Vicky Austin
Any.do (to-do list app).
Taking notes from Ina Garten’s Make It Ahead.
Keeping all my work shoes at work (I have a dirty commute).
Thinking about getting a lunchbox – if anybody has one they like I’d love to hear about it.
H13
Putting a reminder on every individual email that needs follow up with a realistic date/time.
Multiple sets of U-Konserve stainless food containers that can go into the dishwasher after getting home from work/school.
SSJD
Prep+Rally
Discovered it in May and subscribed for 1 year. It’s amazing. Every week I get 4 weeknight dinner menus including recipes and shopping list. This helps us to have healthy, home-cooked meals on the table each night without multiple trips to the supermarket. I’m now less bothered about “what should we eat tonight” and my family is trying all kinds of new foods that weren’t in our repertoire. (Turns out we love broccolini and hate broccoli rabe!). For us it’s been a great discovery.
Cb
Ooh that sounds good. I’ll have to check them out for veggie options.
Anon
I really like this in theory but I find many American recipes too sweet (apples in salads, raisins in potroasts, sugar in sauces, ketchup, etc). Any feedback on these recipes from that standpoint?Otherwise, we eat literally everything and meal planning is a bear.
anonshmanon
Buying the set of pyrex containers (30 or so pieces) to always have a lunch container ready to go.
Meal planning on the weekend, including breakfast. Accepting to get takeout once a week and grabbing a ready made meal once a week (for me, the cheese and bean burrito from trader Joe’s).
Not proper meal prep, but usually making one large curry or sauce on weekends that covers a weekday meal, and cooking some rice or potatoes, roasting two servings of veggies that I can pull out of the fridge later. Pasta or potato salad is also a good lunch I can prep on the weekend, trying to make that more often.
A glass of water on my night stand, filled when I go to bed. Prepping the espresso machine the night before and setting a timer for it to warm up in the morning, before I come into the kitchen.
anon
Making a big pot of soup on Sundays, which gives me a homemade work lunch through Wednesday.
Packing lunches in the evening has saved a lot of time and hassle in the morning, especially with four of us in the kitchen getting ready for work/school.
Having a biweekly cleaner is a lifesaver. Yeah, I still have to clean, but I know that at least twice a month, everything is getting a deep clean and it’s easier for me to keep up with the daily stuff.
Trying a few new time management approaches for my own work is finally paying off; I feel way more focused on my priorities than jumping from crisis to crisis.
MagicUnicorn
Organizing one room or area in my house each month with the intent of having all those cupboards, closets, shelves, under-the-beds and boxes that collect crap sorted and clean so when we someday move, it doesn’t look like an episode of Hoarders.
Samantha
OMG I love this idea. I am bad at organizing and always put it off but one room a month sounds doable.
Biggest Balls in the Room
Planning my work wardrobe for the week on Sundays and hanging whatever outfits and accessories together so that each morning it’s basically grab and go.
Anon
– I have a second small freezer which is amazing.
– I have a giant pot from Ikea and a giant all-clad roasting pan. Our house is small but I make room for these (the fridge is a “side table”…)
– I make a large pot of lamb spinach stew with indian spice paste on Sundays and that’s Sunday dinner and lunch option 1 for 5-6 days. I roast a duck on Tuesdays and make black bean chili with the “water” from the duck on (or overnight on Tue), and that’s Wed dinner and lunch option 2. At any given time there are glass containers with 1 or 2 in the freezer. These are totally fine for lunch or dinner. If it gets boring I can do lamb or pork borsch and pinto bean tomatillo stews instead. Duck lasts two days. If duck gets boring I do cornish game hens.
– Once a week is a no-cook dinner of hiyayakko (tofu) with cucumber salad. Dressing cucumbers with just sesame oil is the easiest and tastiest. The rest of the week are quick sheet pan or grilled dinners with maybe a fresh salad – cucs or bell peppers and tomatoes.
– I have a thousand flexible cutting boards. The Ikea ones are the best, they don’t get holes. I also cut them up and use them in purses and bags to make them stiffer because who has time to dig through a collapsed bag.
– I never wash anything by hand. Everything goes in the dishwasher.
– Husband has his own laundry basket and I never ever touch it or its contents (thanks Senior Attorney 5? years ago!)
– I only clean my dish after dinner. If husband didn’t clean up his and kid’s, it’ll be there tomorrow for him to do (rationale being – I cooked and cleaned after cooking, and I am not a servant).
– I buy prepeeled garlic and freeze it. I freeze ginger. I freeze leftover mint, oregano, dill in a baggy with a little water. I freeze unused tomato paste.
– Husband juices a 5 lb bag of lemons once every two months. Half goes in a thermos in the fridge, half gets frozen. We always have fresh lemon juice to marinate lamb or chicken, to add to fish, or to make lemonade or adult beverages.
– One hole rule – if a sock or any clothing has one hole it needs to go into Goodwill recycling bag. This was implemented after I realized husband had a drawer full of second-class-citizens that would in theory be worn on laundry day but in practice were sitting there getting musty.
– Under bed storage is essential for us and houses out of season clothes. When seasons change each person including kid is responsible for putting unwearable items into Goodwill bag, which will be taken on Sunday. Last season’s items must go in the storage. Everything happens in one weekend.
– I have a basket that collects all the random stuff we won’t use as well as outgrown clothes, including paper bags, sturdy carboard boxes, bubble wrap, and rubber bands. Every month I post things on our buy nothing group. There is always someone moving and needs wrap and boxes, and even the rubber bands have takers most of the time (and if they don’t, they will next time).
– I always feed the dog on the dot. He knows exactly what to expect and works like a little machine. Never any accidents since we implemented this.
– I have a clock for the kid that has activities marked by hour. It helps support my argument of “it’s late”. I had to make it myself from a movement and dry erase board as I didn’t find such a product for sale.
– I go to the gym 6 days a week (45 min classes). It’s never strenuous but gives me time away from work and parenting and a chance to talk to other adults about not work.
– I have at least two activities each week that are just me and kid. One is swimming together and the other may be a walk or make train tracks or whatever. It helps me be nicer to her. I’m an impatient person and connecting with her helps me control my temper at other times.
anon
A lot of these sound very efficient, but I always thought Goodwill doesn’t want damaged clothing. You are creating more work for them since they have to sort through your donation when you could have thrown it away.
Anon
They have to sort through everything anyway and recycle a lot of textiles.
Anon
My Goodwill is very clear about this. They will take textiles recycling as long as it’s not pillows. I label the bags and let them know when I hand it over. Never an issue.
MagicUnicorn
That pinto bean tomatillo stew sounds tasty. Can you share the recipe?
Anon
It’s this one. I don’t use an instant pot. I just bring to boil and put it on auto oven for 2 hrs at 350. I’ll admit that I literally just chop my veg in half. Maybe quarter the onion. I like the texture better than food processor. The prep takes about 10 min, another 10 to bring to boil. It sits in the oven all day after oven turns off. I figure it’s a sterile environment. I add more spices before serving. I never presoak beans.
https://spartanlifeblog.com/pinto-bean-tomatillo-soup/
MagicUnicorn
Thanks!
Anon
No more make-ahead lunches and no more than 10 minutes of cooking on a weeknight. I buy a lot of pre-made or very quick-cooking food from Trader Joe’s, and I get ready-made meals from Territory a couple times a week. I love cooking but have found that I’m much happier saving the actual recipes for weekends.
Anonymous
I realized last night at back-to-school that I need a new purse. I have a work/laptop bag and I have an out-with-the-kids-all-weekend tote bag, but I don’t have a good small/medium purse. I’m not a bag-switcher so what’s a good goes-with-mostly-anything bag that can hold my phone/wallet, lipstick, keys, sunglasses and maybe a small notebook?
Also, shoes. I largely WFH and when I don’t, I’m in heels and a suit. What’s a good casual pair of shoes to wear to things like back to school night, moms night out, dinner with DH? In the summer I got away with sandals but now my choices are 3” black heels or converse. I’m tall and I have size 11 feet, so nothing that would add extra length to feet (I generally feel like pointy toe shoes like Rothys make my feet look even bigger, but I could be wrong?)
I spent half of the open house creepily checking out other moms’ shoes and bags and realized I need both :-).
SSJD
I’ve been using my belt bag as a small purse/wallet. It holds my keys, phone, credit cards, license, cash, metro card, tissues, lip balm, ponytail holder, and pen. On the weekend, when I am with my kids and need my tote, I throw the whole belt bag in the tote as my wallet. It probably won’t hold everything you describe, but it’s been working for me. I have two of them, a more casual one from Andi and a leather one I bought from Nordstrom. I love being hands free!
As for shoes, I’m a fan of booties. What did you notice that you liked on other people?
Anonymous
Isn’t a belt bag a…fanny pack?
I’m looking for more of a traditional purse- I can’t see myself using a belt bag/fanny pack to go out to dinner with DH. I know they’re back in style but I am just not cool enough to pull off!
Anonymous
Fellow mom here. My everyday bag is the new Cuyana small structured tote with the organizer insert. It perfectly fits my zip-around wallet, phone, small cosmetic bag with hand sanitizer etc., keys, sunglasses in a hard case, and Moleskine notebook. I can stuff in a sweater, water bottle, or small umbrella when necessary. It looks great with work and casual wear. I can carry it over my shoulder with the regular handles. The smaller size is much less overwhelming than the regular-sized Cuyana tote I used to carry. The Cuyana pebbled leather wears like iron.
My “fun” purse is a Staud bucket bag, but it’s extremely inefficient in terms of interior space. It also seems like it would show scuffs terribly. I would not recommend it as an everyday bag.
For shoes, my fall casual choices are clogs, Veja sneakers, or ankle boots. I see nothing wrong with Converse, unless you want to be fancy for date night. I don’t like wearing Rothys anywhere but the office because they are too flexible to drive in and don’t have good support for walking.
Anonymous
I like the tote- it’s exactly my style. But it’s too big for what I’m looking for (unless that model is TINY!).
I wish it came in “mini” :-)
Anonymous
What about a baguette bag?
Annony
I love the Cuyana Half-Moon Shoulder bag. I have it in the caramel color and it goes with everything. Perfect size for large wallet, phone, sunglasses, lipstick, tissues, etc. I usually wear it cross-body. I also have been considering the Everlane Form Cross-Body but feel like it might lay weird on the hip, since it’s a little bulky.
For shoes, I’m either in sneakers (but fashion! lol) or menswear oxfords. I’d just get some cute flats and call it a day, because pretty soon you’ll be wearing boots.
anon
If I were you, I’d peruse the bag and shoe section at nordstrom. I have a kate spade bag that is perfect for what you are talking about but I don’t see it on the website now. I wear ballet flats or booties when I don’t want to wear sandals or sneakers.
lsw
I’m planning to buy the Herieth bag from Clare V. soon as my beloved shoulder bag is showing too much wear. Obviously I haven’t bought it yet, but the size looks perfect for what I need to hold and should fit in my commuting backpack.
anon
MM Lafleur Jardigan Q: is it supposed to sit so open across the chest? Love the weight of the fabric; however it doesn’t lie nicely in the front. Am I missing something?
Leatty
That’s how mine fits. It bothered me somewhat at first since I normally like to be able to close my cardigans easily, but I’ve gotten used to how it looks.
ElisaR
i agree, it shows a lot of the top that’s underneath. I think that’s the way its intended to lay.
anon
Ah OK, was thinking to size up but it is probably the cut. Thank you
Anon
Yeah, so the transcript. Not a smoking gun here…
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf
“The other thing, there’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that […] so if you can look into it…”
Where it appears in the conversation, it doesn’t read like a quid pro quo to me.
Anon
The transcript is no slam dunk for Trump – that is for sure. It’s also not a verbatim transcript so I’m curious what might be left out of the public view.
Anonymous
I will wait for the whistleblower report. I don’t trust the white house to release an unedited version of the transcript. This is the same man who altered a weather report with a Sharpie.
Anon
+1, I don’t trust anything that comes straight from the White House with an orange pathological liar on board (and that’s not up for debate, he literally denies things that are on video from public press events or still in the history of his twitter feed, it’s mind boggling how someone can distort their own reality like that – granted I’m pretty sure everyone agrees he at minimum is suffering from some sort of mental illness – dementia at worst, narcissism at best).
ElisaR
+1
Anon
I don’t think it has to be a quid pro quo to be an impeachable offense. He (seriously, not jokingly) asked a foreign leader to investigate a political rival. I also think Trump is so stupid and inarticulate that even if he was trying to frame it as a quid pro quo, that probably wouldn’t be clear from the conversation because he’s frequently so bad at conveying what he really means.
The White House has also admitted this is not a verbatim transcript. It was “reconstructed” and who knows what that means. Trump drew on a weather map with a sharpie.
Anon
He asked someone to investigate a previous VP. That’s the context. If Biden weren’t running for President, it would still get investigated.
Anon
I don’t think you can ignore the fact that Biden is not only running for President but is by some metrics the most likely Democratic nominee. He’s not just a member of the previous administration, he’s also a major political rival. That fact matters.
Anonymous
Man, it reads so terribly to me. Doesn’t he ask for a favor just after talking about how he’s done so much? If this is Trump’s shiny pretty version (or if he THINKS it is), imagine how bad the real situation/call transcript must be.
Anonymous
100% agree
Anon
Also, I can’t imagine another world leader spending the entire phone call kissing DJT’s ass the way it was portrayed in this memo. That said, I’ve never sat in on phone calls between world leaders, but the President of the Ukraine’s side of the conversation seems overly obsequious.
Anonymous
Completely disagree. This is quid pro quo. He opens with reminding Zelensky that US does more than any other country for Ukraine in terms of aide, and then asks for a favor. And then we know that he withheld that aid. For the record I had the assumption that there would be nothing there, but this is a smoking gun to me.
annienomous
+1 my take precisely
all about eevee
Sorry, but I disagree. The transcript was actually way worse than I thought it would be. He even came out and used the word “favor”.
Junie
It doesn’t have to be a quid pro quo to be illegal.
Anon
This is Trump’s sanitized version, the version of the facts the HE wants you to see! Given that fact, it was waaaaaaay worse than I expected it to be. I think the whistleblower will reveal a lot more when s/he testified.
hm
Look at bottom of p.2 to top of p.3. Zelenskyy says he wants to continue cooperating and is about ready to buy weapons from the US, and Trump replies, “I would like you to do us a favor though…” and then transitions right into election fraud, corruption, Ukraine working with Barr and Giuliani, Mueller BS, servers, and, of course, the Bidens. Zelenskyy keeps trying to move the conversation back to government business, and Trump stays wades deeper into his self-created swamp. Note also that this was a 30-minute call, condensed into 5 pages — makes you wonder what Trump said in the dialogue that was edited out.
Anonymous
Note that Trump had already put a hold on the aid package before the call. That fact is relevant to contextualizing this absurd phone call.
PolyD
Has anyone done Daily Harvest, the thing where they send you cups of frozen fruits and vegetables for smoothies, veggie bowls, etc.?
I am tempted. Not by the smoothie part, I’d rather eat fruit and that’s not a problem for me. But I want to eat more vegetables and I am tempted to sign up for the absolutely lowest amount offered and get some of their veggie bowls. I like vegetables and I don’t mind cooking, but I’m not good at putting together bowl combinations and my schedule is such that I tend to have fresh vegetables rot on me before I eat them. So the idea of a frozen pre-made bowl is sort of appealing. Looks like it would average around $7-8 a bowl, which is of course much more than making them yourself, but rather more convenient. They would be nice for lunch.
I don’t know. Maybe I’ll try it for a very short term and see how it works.
Anonymous
Why not just buy frozen bagged vegetables at the grocery store? That is what we do. Dump in bowl, microwave, eat.
Anon
That doesn’t sound very tasty
Anon
Lots of grocery stores sell premade veggie combos that are prespiced that you heat up in the bag in a microwave. They are delicious. Try those first, I eat them as dinner (usually 350-500 calories per bag) and often have combos of healthy beans, quinoa, and all types of veggies.
PolyD
That’s a good idea. I don’t want just a bag of mixed frozen veggies, but now that you mention it, I think there are some that have grains added, too. Will have to check those out.
I am usually not quite so susceptible to marketing, but dang if those Daily Harvest ads don’t look good!!
ElisaR
Trader Joe’s has lot of tasty options for this. I especially like the quinoa with carrots and zucchini in it. I wish there was a little more veggie but the flavor is good.
PolyD
I don’t know why I didn’t think of Trader Joe’s, probably because I stopped going there because every time I found something I really liked, they discontinued it.
Are these in the frozen or refrigerated section? Also I guess I could beef up the veggies by adding some fresh one.
NOLA
I just discovered a bag of grain and frozen veggies from Trader Joe’s in my freezer this weekend. Forgot I had it.
kk
I really liked a few of the soups and bowls- the pesto cauliflower was so good. I liked being able to dump the cup in a pot on the stove and have something ready in five minutes- perfect between conference calls when working from home. But even the smallest monthly supply was too many for me- I stopped when I realized they were stacking up in my freezer.
PolyD
Thanks, that’s helpful to know. My freezer is pretty small…
Anon
I need new cardigans – mine feel worn out and dated. Does anyone have a favorite lighter weight, longer length cardigan for the office that comes in a bunch of colors? I’m the type to buy multiples of an item I like, so I just want to find one and buy 6 of them and be done. I appreciated yesterday’s swacket post, but swackets can be a bit too formal for my bus cas office depending on how structured they are. Thanks!
Anon.
Try Uniqlo.
H13
+1
Shopaholic
The Banana Republic boyfriend length merino cardigans. They have a bunch of colors on sale right now. I have it in black and grey and I really like both of them.
Shopaholic
I’m moving from a busy litigation job where I would regularly work evenings and weekends to a job that is a straight 9-5. I’m single, no kids and trying to figure out how I will fill all my newly found free time.
Any advice, suggestions? I am really trying to avoid falling into the trap of watching more tv to fill my time.
Anon.
Cooking or crafts class, book club, workout, volunteer. Learn a new language.
Anon
This topic comes up ALL THE TIME here, like literally weekly, so maybe search the archives? I would try searching for “hobbies after work” as a starting place.
Worry about yourself
We should come up with a master list, and have that accessible from the main page. Or have one of the mods do it, collecting ideas from past threads.
Anon
Stuff like that has been suggested hundreds of times over the years but no dice. I don’t think they care.
Worry about yourself
I recommend getting a ClassPass account and trying some of the local fitness studios in the area. I use that app to fill my free evenings with spin, dance fitness, rowing, and barre workouts.
Alternatively, if you want something more relaxed, you could look for free lectures and movie screenings in you area, which may be plentiful if you live in a city, and less so if you’re in a less populated area, but still worth researching.
Telco Lady JD
I’m all for a new hobby or two, but I also really just encourage slowing down a bit. I was in private practice for almost 8 years, and now have a much more 9-5 job.
First, it’s AMAZING how much different of a person I am on 8 hours of sleep. I would encourage you to really make it a priority. Along with that….exercise. I’m not talking insane Cross Fit workouts 7 days a week (though, if that’s your thing, go for it). But…like…a 60 minute leisurely walk before or after work. You have the time now – spend some of it outside!
I also spend MUCH more time meal planning and cooking. This includes big projects on weekends (enormous pot of soup for weekday lunches or fun baking project) and weeknight dinners. We do a lot less takeout. Not sure we spend less money….the grocery bill is hefty. But I work to make things much healthier than takeout.
Anyway…in addition to new hobbies, I’d just look for ways to take care of yourself that you may have opted out of during your very busy previous life. Oooh…one more suggestion. I’ve become much more of a “cruise director” in that I try to set up more social gatherings now that I have a bit more time. I try to do lunch/coffee/dinner/brunch with a friend at least once a week, and also try to have people over to the house more often. Just a thought.
Anon
Agree with sleep and exercise, but I caution against filling time with more chores, including cooking. For me, that’s been the fast track to feeling like I have no actual time for things I want to do. Instead, I do the fun stuff first and just let my house not be as neat as I’d like, etc. Hobbies are a better use of limited after-work time.
Telco Lady JD
Agree with this. I just like cooking…so I guess in this context, for me it is a self-care/hobby hybrid.
Anonymous
Working out and yoga. Go on dates.
Go for it
Get out and do all the things you live near.. parks, museums, a bowling league, a weekly class at a gym, if it’s a tv night add needlepoint!
Shopaholic
Thank you all! I’m going to make a list of things and start trying them. I definitely want to workout and cook more.
Irish Midori
Why is the model wearing it over pajamas?
Anon
I can’t even evaluate if I would like it or not because I get so distracted by the pajamas. If it’s meant to be worn over pajamas, I guess it is just not for me
Anon
Oh come on, seriously? You have to have them show you a picture of the exact way that YOU would style it? Do you seriously have that little imagination?
Anon
Are you the same Anon who always posts this same rude response?
You’re not nearly as clever as you think you are.
Anon
It doesn’t have to be the exact way I would wear it, but it has to be a way that a professional would wear it to work. Yep, I have that little imagination that I can’t overcome the pajamas and I have no problem with that
Worry about yourself
Right, I love the blazer but it would be more helpful to see it styled with something simple and classic like a pencil skirt or slacks; pairing it with that bodysuit – which aside from looking pajamalike also just has a loud, distracting print that doesn’t complement the blazer at all – was a bad decision.
Anon
It kind of reminds me of that Chanel suit that Marge Simpson bought and remade into a bunch of different outfits, except blue instead of pink – down to the piping. I think this blazer would get dated super fast, and kind of already is in a “retro look” kind of way.
Edna Mazur
That was my immediate first thought too!!!
Anonymous
There have been a few posts lately about things we can do to become more green, I just wanted to share 2 things that have been extremely easy for me. One is replacing cotton rounds with reusable ones made from bamboo, I wash them once a week. Another is putting a basket filled with at least 20 microfiber cloths in the kitchen, to reduce reliance on paper towels (although there are issues with microfiber so there may be suggestions for a better material to use?).
Anon
I use plain old cotton. They’re absorbent, and if I grab one in a hurry to yank something out of the oven, it won’t melt. I don’t buy microfiber for that reason… my towels do double duty as hotpads. If you need to wipe something and have it not streak, clean with the regular rag/towel and give a final wipedown with newsprint.
Anonymous
Where did you find the reusable cotton rounds?
Anon
If you’re crafty at all, or curious to learn, they’re super-easy to crochet! Small items like this are my mindless thing I do with my hands if I’m watching TV (and very tempting to take up in boring meetings, but I’m not that person… yet).
lsw
I got mine on Amazon. I found a person who makes them stateside. There are probably same on Etsy. I also have found these to be awesome!
pugsnbourbon
Creekside Kid on Etsy. Can vouch for her stuff – it holds up very well.
anon
You can also get them on etsy and amazon.
Anon
We’ve also traded paper towels for cotton cloths. I ordered some off Etsy, but any would do. It took my husband a minute to get used to it…and my mom hilariously struggles when she comes to visit (it’s really funny to watch her – “wait, you want to use CLOTH to clean up a spill?” “yep, it’s amazing – towels you can use for more than decoration! :D”) but it’s been really easy. I also ordered little cloths – maybe 6″ square – that I use as napkins in my lunch at work. I ordered enough of them that there are plenty when some are in the wash and it’s no trouble just to toss a few in with any load we’re washing.
Anonymous
Perfect use for old sheets or towels that you’d otherwise trash. Also, cloth diapers or burp cloths work really well here; absorbent and designed to be washed a million times. Cut the bigger ones in half if you need to.
lsw
Yup, cloth diapers!
Anonymous
+1 reusable napkins for lunch is an easy swit h
anonshmanon
I’ve been experimenting with recipes to increase the sustainable foods in my diet in small steps that work for me. Found a recipe for the kind of lentil soup that you get at the Indian restaurant. Literally just throw everything together and let it simmer, makes two meals for us, is healthy and vegan.
Recently, I played around with tofu and found a way to make it that I really liked(And hubby too)! I know soy has it’s own health and environmental impacts, but swapping it for an animal protein once a month will be an improvement.
Anon
What’s the tofu recipe? I actually really love tofu and prefer it to meat most of the time, so I’m curious about different ways to make it at home.
Anon
Would you please post or link the recipe? For some reason I’ve yet to be able to convincingly recreate that lentil soup (and I cook a lot of Indian food already).
Anon
I want to say thank you for this and the positive tone, vs yesterday’s preachy sh1tshow.
Anon
+1 I really appreciate this post both because it’s a helpful tip that I’m not going to look into and wasn’t preachy
Anon
Online dating question (I might repost later as it’s kinda late) — I am an attorney in a small city. Although my first name is very common, I am the first or second result when you google “[first name] [city] attorney”. It brings you to my firm bio, picture, etc. Because of this, I sometimes don’t feel comfortable telling men I’m chatting with on apps that I’m an attorney, even when they ask what I do. I usually say “I work in an office” and that’s usually enough for most people, but sometimes they press on it. I refuse to say, and say I will tell them all about it if we meet in person. Is this unreasonable? Am I being paranoid?
Senior Attorney
I think you’re more than reasonable.
Anon
You’re not unique in this – I can always find my dates really easily on Linkedin or Facebook. Be prepared for some guys to think it’s weird you won’t tell them what you do.
Monday
Different option–post a fake first name and then tell them your real name when you’re comfortable. Then you’d be free to share your profession. I do this myself, also for job-related reasons, and no one has ever expressed any discomfort with it. I just share my real name, explain my reason for using a fake, and the convo moves on.
Anon
That is so weird. I would 100% end a relationship with a guy who had lied to me about his name. You can be honest that you’re not ready to give certain information, like a last name or profession, but lying is never ok.
Monday
It’s not a “relationship.” I tell them while we are messaging on the app before we have even met.
Anonymous
Right, and I’m saying if I then went on to meet him and have a relationship and I found out he’d lied about his name, I would end it. I’m not saying you’re in a relationship with every guy you message on a dating app, but the lying would be a dealbreaker for me.
Monday
I’m confused. The point where they find out my real name is the point before we have even met.
My job puts me in contact with hundreds of men my age with assault records, many of whom are not happy with me, and I have a rare first name. Any different suggestion about what you’d do in my position?
Edna Mazur
Could you use an initial? I agree it would be jarring to think you are meeting up with Burt and end up seeing Mario. Using a first initial is clear you are looking for a certain level of anonymity and most people would assume you have a different actual name.
Anon
Yeah, I would use an initial or nickname.
Anon
I think this is very weird in a big city, but can see it in a small town. FWIW, I wouldn’t choose a random name. It would find it less weird if a guy did this to me if it was his middle name or a nickname that he used to go by.
Vicky Austin
Could also use your middle name if you have one/like it.
Ellen
I think being an attorney is a positive! If you are looking for men, this is a great sales point, as long as they don’t expect you to bring home the bacon while they just lounge around once your married. If you detect this with any of the schmoes you are dating, DTMFA and move on to the next one. It’s that simple. Yes, you are smart and work hard and make money, but make sure you let them know what your long-term intentions are — if not doing what you are doing now, make it clear; i.e. I want to have children and move to XXXXXX. WIll you go along with this ? If not, SAYANARA, DUDE! It does NOT pay to be coy. You are offering up yourself to be his husband and to bear him children. That means alot. Men want women who will pull their weight, and I suggest this is important and what YOU are offering is important. Men who want children will go along; if they don’t, DTMFA and move on! It’s that simple! Go for it!!! YAY!!!
Anon
I would probably more direct about it and say something like “I work in an office, but I’d rather not discuss specifics of my job until we meet in person.” Just saying “I work in an office” seems very weird and evasive to me.
Anon
+1 I think it’s reasonable to protect your privacy, but I also think it’s reasonable for a prospective date to be put off by your caginess.
Horse Crazy
Yeah, it sounds kind of cagey. Something like Anon said about waiting until you’re meeting in person to discuss specifics is good. My cousin’s husband always tells people he does “business” – it’s creepy-sounding.
Anon
Lol. That makes me think of Gal Meets Glam’s husband, who told his followers he was a “scientist” and then when people said “what!?” (he’s involved in managing her brand/clothing line and takes photos of her), he said “I’m a business scientist!” lol, ok, sure…
Worry about yourself
You might be able to get more specific than that while still keeping it vague, something like “I work at a law firm” and if they press, say “To be honest, I’m not comfortable disclosing my specific job title or employer to people I barely know. I’ll be happy to fill you in on those details if we go on a few dates first. I promise it’s nothing sketchy, I’m just trying to maintain boundaries.”
I’m with you, I do not like telling men I don’t know where I work, lest any of them feel compelled to show up outside the building one afternoon and wait for me to come out. I know most guys don’t do this, but it’s something I worry about sometimes.
Anonymous
If a prospective date told me “I work in an office,” I’d assume they were the receptionist at Dunder Mifflin.
Anonymous
I think it’s weird, unnecessary, and paranoid
NOLA
I totally get it. Men often ask me where I work (which local university) and I will rarely say right away. If someone knows my first name and where I work, my entire CV is public on the website. Nobody needs to know that kind of detail about me before we’ve even met.
Internal interview
I have an internal interview for a promotion tomorrow. I’ve gone over my resume and jotted down answers to questions I think they will ask. What else should I do as prep?
Anon
I’m embarrassed to admit this, but the Real Housewives of OC are at Miraval Tucson and it’s making me really want to go. I’m guessing some people in this group have been. Is it as gorgeous at it looks on TV? (I know they’re staying in a fancier room than I’d be staying in, so asking more about the public areas of the property.) Is the food good? Is it weird to go alone? I don’t generally enjoy solo travel that much, but I’m hoping that having activities available would make it less lonely.
Anon
Just be careful when someone puts a bowl on your head!
(We rewound that scene at least 5 times and laughed our asses off)
Anon
Hahaha yes I think I’ll skip that room completely ;)
Anon
To answer your actual question, I do travel alone (despite the fact that I have a husband and kids, or maybe especially because I have a husband and kids!) and I love it! I find that if I fill up my time I’m not lonely at all. Eating alone takes getting used to but I look at my phone or take a book.
The lovely thing about traveling alone is getting to do exactly what I want to do, when I want to do it.
Saguaro
Miraval is even more beautiful in person, and it’s definitely a place to go for solo travel. You fill your time with spa treatments, classes, hiking, reading, etc. (assuming these are your thing). I know a lot of people that go there alone, so it wouldn’t be weird at all.
Anon
Thank you!
Anon
I’ve been meaning to post this for a while, but I keep forgetting. I need some advice on how to handle washing reusable cloths. I’m trying to move away from using paper towels to wipe the counters and appliances, but I’ve found that it’s kind of awkward and tricky to manage the process of washing reusable rags. I’ll use them and put them into a bin, but they’ll start to get mildewy before the load is big enough to put in the washing machine. I’m concerned about mold spores in my home due to health conditions so I don’t think it’s smart for me to ignore the problem. Should I just do a load weekly even if there are only 5 rags in there? I don’t want to wash them with my regular laundry because they’re often so filthy (I use them for cleaning my riding boots, for one) and I need to be able to use bleach. Any tips for managing this process more smoothly? I find myself going back to paper towels way too often.
Anon
I’d say wash them weekly even if it’s a small number. Or wash them by hand as you use them by washing them off/soaping if necessary, and letting them soak with bleach, then hanging them up to dry.
anon
If they get mildewy, they are probably sitting in a damp pile. If so, letting them dry out before you toss in the hamper would help. Once dry, you could also shake off some of the rough dirt, so maybe they could go in with the other laundry? IDK about the bleach though, as I don’t use any.
Anon.
Agree with letting them dry first. Alternatively, if you have space for a bucket, can you just pre-soak them (I realize this could be kinda gross, though).
AnonInfinity
Yes, this! I live in a hot, humid climate where damp clothes or towels get mildewy fast. When I use a cloth like this, I always hang in on the edge of the hamper until it dries (overnight, max) and then throw it in the hamper once it’s dry. If the towels are especially gross, I wash them with stuff like my shower liner and the bathroom rug (stuff that doesn’t actually go on my body). If they’re just used but not really gross, I throw them in with other towels and cloth napkins.
AnonInfinity
Oh, and I always wash them weekly, even if it’s a small load (why I usually bulk up with rugs, etc).
Worry about yourself
I toss them in my towel loads, which I do every other week (sometimes weekly), and just use hot water to both wash and dry them. Then again, I normally don’t use the cloths for really germy cleaning jobs like the toilet, I use paper towels for that, the cloths are more for wiping down countertops and shower tiles.
anon
This what I do. I have a basket for dirty towels that I wash at least once per week. The cloths I use in the kitchen usually don’t get super wet though, it just has whatever cleaning solution I use on it.
Anonymous
This is what I do
Anon
+1 I wash all towels together weekly including rags and kitchen cloths.
Anonymous
We use cloth kitchen towels and napkins and cleaning rags and just throw them in with a few bath or beach towels when needed. All towels get a hot heavy duty cycle anyway and we will sanitize and/or drop in some bleach if we know something’s especially icky (sick kid for instance).
But we cloth diapered also, so washing cloth napkins and cleaning cloths and bath towels together does not bother us at all. YMMV
Anonymous
I just throw them in with my regular laundry, unless there is something gross like dog throw up
Anon
Am I the only one who is really uncomfortable with the Greta Thunberg situation? Don’t get me wrong – I believe much of what she’s pushing. I try to do my part being vegetarian and trying not to overly consume and I agree change has to come at the country/corporate level.
But something about this feels so exploitative. I have a relative with Aspbergers and it seems like there was so much focus on teaching her skills to not obsess on one topic or think everything is a catastrophe. Putting her on this global stage just makes me feel so uncomfortable, like adults aren’t protecting her as a 16 year old who clearly has a difficult time with social norms and connecting with others
Anon
Maybe she doesn’t need to be protected by adults? Maybe she’s living out her passion at a young age? And in case you hadn’t noticed, CLIMATE CHANGE IS A CATASTROPHE.
all about eevee
OR maybe she’s fine and her parents are encouraging her to pursue her passion. What I find shocking is how many adults are attacking a child because their politics are different from hers and she seems “weird” to them.
Anon
Eh, she’s 16, not 8. I think this really is her passion, I don’t think she’s being pushed into this by “stage mom”-type parents and I think it’s the correct decision by her parents to let her pursue it. So what if she has a difficult time with social norms? I don’t think they need to lock their kid up at home just because she has some social challenges.
Anon
I agree with this 100%. After spending years teaching young children on the spectrum, it makes me so so uncomfortable.
Anonymous
It makes me cringe too. There is something about her interviews and public appearances that just seems exploitative, which wouldn’t be the case with every 16-year-old. And as a practical matter, the fact that she comes across as very juvenile makes it easier for opponents to minimize or dismiss her and her cause.
Anon
No, I think she’s cool and independent and more youth should be like her.