ByElizabeth Hours Updated
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Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Sheath Dress

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A woman wearing a blue dress with white strappy sandals

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I’m loving the color of this sheath dress from Maggy London. The company calls it “teal,” but it’s looking more blue than green to my eye. I would wear this with a navy blazer for a more formal office look.​

I’m fighting an elder-millennial desire to add a statement belt, and instead might go for a bold shoe or some fun jewelry.

The dress is $138 at Nordstrom and comes in sizes 14W–22W. It's also available in straight sizes at Nordstrom, but in a darker blue (as well as black) in lucky sizes. Amazon has the dress in 0–16 and 16W–22W, depending on color.

Sales of note for 4/24/25:

  • Nordstrom – 7,710 new markdowns for women!
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  • Boden – 25% off everything (ends 4/27) (a rare sale!)
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  • M.M.LaFleur – 3 pieces for $198. Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 50% off last chance styles; new favorites added
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Friends & Family Event: 30% off entire purchase, includes markdowns

401 Comments

  1. I was just getting around to the crushes-thread and wanted to throw this out there: it was very eye-opening to me to learn about the concept of “aspirational crushes”. Meaning, you’re not so much attracted to this person as you wish you WERE this person (in some sort of aspect at least). Like, the woman crushing on the rebel artist would be better off buying an easel, paintbrushes and a motorcycle. The woman crushing on her professor would be better off getting her PhD and tenure!
    I’m sure it doesn’t apply to all of the crushes, but maybe it resonates with some of the crush-posters (it certainly did with me!)

    1. Years ago I had a crush on a coworker and at some point realized it wasn’t him, so much, that I wished I had in my life, but several of his qualities (initiative, drive, decisiveness).

    2. I was just thinking of this – I’m a former field sport athlete and sorority girl who is currently b outdoorsy endurance athlete who works in a do gooder field, that at times requires close work with firefighters and the military.

      My ideal man is rugged, athletic, and very masculine who works in a do gooder field, is social and likes to let off steam but isn’t too crazy or too full of himself.

      Let me tell you – this is nearly impossible to find. A lot of these guys I work with or come across in my hobbies are either cocky jerks or just plain weird.

      1. Or, I forgot to add, they’re damaged / running from something.

        You don’t find many well adjusted folks working in refugee camps :)

    3. Yeah I think one of the reasons my fake ideal man is probably a Navy SEAL is because I’m really attracted to the idea of service above self, a high level of self sufficiency, the camaraderie, and a high level of fitness.

      I have all of that on much lower levels in my life, but kinda want the guys I date to bring that out in me more. But, that’s not too common in my circles….

      1. Having worked with both, with that description you don’t want a SEAL, you want a high-level political operative who also likes going to the gym (there are plenty with that combo). It’s election year — get thee to your local presidential/senatorial/gubernatorial campaign HQ and volunteer.

    5. I wonder if this is why some men have a thing for manic pixie dream girls. (Not endorsing this!)

      1. Men don’t want to BE manic pixie dreamgirls. They want manic pixie dreamgirls because the MPDG is not a person in her own right but a vehicle for the man’s self-discovery.

    7. Wow, hadn’t heard of this but it explains why I used to have a pattern of “date aspiring x,” “get frustrated when aspiring x wasn’t actually avoiding x” and then “achieve x myself”
      Whelp… time to go back therapy.

    8. The line I heard about crushing on a professional musician or dating one is wanting them to like you as much or as more as they like or love their music… and they almost never will.

      And I guess, if they did, would you still want them?

      Not sure if it’s always / sometimes / rarely / never true, but something to think about

    9. Interesting. One of my worst work crushes was on a guy who made tons of money and had family money as well. I think the fantasy of him was a comfortable life not worrying so much about money every single day, and maybe not being the breadwinner.

    10. interesting! i also just found out about the concept of “limerence” where it crosses beyond a crush into intrusive thoughts… I used to crush so intensely on people for apparently no reason and instead of like talking to the person or getting to know them just observe from afar. i think i definitely have a tendency towards that. (happily married now with a guy i met in a bar and went out on a date with pretty soon after, which is how i think i broke the cycle.)

  2. (TLDR – divorcing alcoholic abusive husband)

    Dear internet friends – I have been totally non contact with my husband since the day he was arrested (over 4 months now). I know I am doing the right thing, I am not anticipating any form of reconciliation with him. I need some bolstering today – my lawyers are about to contact him about the divorce, and I can’t stop thinking I want to talk to him, and tell him quite how much I am hurting, and I still hold so much worry about him. (also I hate the feeling that he might no longer love me, hate me etc, which is irrational because I am the one taking all the steps to dissolve our marriage). His hole is so deep, and any fix is the matter of years not months, so I know this is the right path, and I deserve to build my life anew and not wait for that, I just need the support of my internet stranger friends to help me navigate this horrible time.

    1. Oof, I’m so sorry. Is there anyone who can be with you physically today? Or maybe even just being around strangers would help – a yoga class, a busy cafe, etc.

    3. Sending you lots of love, it is hard! You are doing the best you can as you go through this process.

    4. I have been thinking of your situation so much. I am no expert, but I don’t think any good can come of you contacting this person. Surely that is just going backwards? You undoubtedly had similar conversations with him during your marriage and that ended in you being actually endangered – by him. I think it is kind to have good wishes for him and his future, but I’m certain that speaking to him personally can have no good outcome for you. Stay on your path! You will get to the destination of your amazing future life much more quickly than by trying to revisit the past. Love and support from one more of many internet strangers who admire you.

    5. You’ve got this. It’s normal and human that you want him to understand how his actions have impacted you and also that you’re worried about him. And it’s true, and I know you know, that talking to him about that would probably not result in the outcome you want and would just frustrate you both. So remember that, and that we’re all here rooting for you, and keep taking care of yourself and resisting that urge!

      1. +1 – great phrasing! You got this. Don’t undo all your hard work. Talk to us, talk to a friend, write it all out!

      2. This! You have come too far to backslide now! Talk to us or a trusted friend. The fact that you care means you’re a good human, but you do not OWE him your care. He squandered that. What you are doing is SO hard, but you’ve got this.

      1. Sending you support. +1 to the letter idea. Even typing something in google docs helps get it out of my system!

      2. Yes – or say the words out loud to the ocean or a tree or your shower. And then have a very good friend or supportive animal to catch you, this can be cathartic but very hard.

    8. When you can’t stop thinking about talking to him, grab a notebook and write down all the things you want to say. Get them out of your head, put them on paper. Close the cover and walk away or tear the pages out and burn them, whatever you find cathartic. Just do not let those thoughts continue to take up space in your head and definitely do not let the pressure of those thoughts convince you to actually talk to him. You are strong, brave, and you’ve got this.

    9. What you’re feeling seems pretty normal and human given the situation. But hold strong. You are saving yourself. You tried to save him, and it didn’t work. Now it’s up to him.

      1. Yes, I am safe. I have legal protections that are strong and he has respected, and I will not be alone in the house for several days. Thank you for thinking about this for me x

    11. Sending you all of the strength and support today. I made the decision to divorce my alcoholic, abusive ex-husband 3.5 years ago and it was the best decision I’ve ever made. I’m so much happier and truly feel like I’m the best version of myself. I want you to know that even though this is awful now there is something so much better on the other side. I know you can’t see this now, but know that it will be get so much better. I even recently started dating someone (not sure where this will go but I’m very hopeful) and I am in shock and also grateful for how wonderful this man is. Makes me wonder what I ever saw in my ex…
      Things that helped me get through this: journaling (I did a TON of journaling — this helped me get out my thoughts/feelings and process things), therapy, exercise, travel, leaning on my friends and family. Finding yourself again, choosing hobbies and things that you want to do and that add value to your life.
      I would strongly encourage you not to reach out to him — there’s nothing good that come from it. I essentially went no contact with my ex except when we had to sort out our home and logistics like that. He was respectful of my boundaries here and I’m very glad I made this decision.

    12. Be strong, dear OP! I know I have shared this ad nauseum, but when I left my husband I had this ridiculous idea that it would be amicable and we would be in contact and even continue to use our season theatre tickets together and so on. Turns out he was the one who went completely no-contact once I moved out. It totally broke my heart but it was the best favor he could have done me because it gave me space to break the attachment and get moving forward. (Ironically, when I finally filed for divorce months later he wa desperate to reconcile, but by then it was too late.)

      Remember, the task on your emotional plate right now is to break that attachment, and that is best accomplished by NO CONTACT AT ALL. I endorse the idea of writing your feelings, if you must, but not sending them.

      Big hugs. Better days are coming.

    14. You are strong, you are doing this, you will prevail. I am proud of you for taking these steps to protect yourself and move on.

    15. If, in the future, he gets his life together. And has a proven record of staying together. And expresses sorrow, regret and apologizes for what’s going on now, THEN you can allow yourself to have these thoughts. HE needs to put in the work first. Don’t enable him further right now.

  3. Smart watch etiquette: please comment

    A number of people (including my partner) in my life wear some version of the apple watch and their constant looking at it makes me twitch. It appears that whatever is displaying is more important than the conversation we are having. In short, it makes me not want to engage with them because inevitably there will be either overt or surreptitious obsessive checking. Please help me with a script that does not seep with resentment, which I currently have in a big way.

    1. They’re going to need to be really motivated to work on stopping this while in conversation with you.

      Where is most of the resentment coming from — I’m guessing it’s your partner’s habit of paying more attention to the watch than to you? If so, what’s your relationship like in general? Is there ever a time when you have your partner’s full attention, and when you feel connected and heard? If not, that’s what I’d ask for.

    2. So the non-sports reason I like my Garmin is that I can leave my phone in another room / not be distracted by it but I can still quickly see the gist of a notification (aka is it urgent family or work (I have on call requirements with work).

    3. It’s called phubbing (phone snubbing) and yes it’s really annoying. Probably the only person you can really talk to is your partner though.

    4. For your partner, I think you have to bring it up at a time when they’ve not been looking at their watch a lot and you’re already irritated. I would focus on how you feel and not what they’re doing.

      For other people, is it really as bad or are you at BEC stage with everyone because of your partner? And is it glancing at the watch or interacting with it? One of the reasons I wear a smart watch is because it allows me to keep my phone out of my hand and still be aware if there’s something I need to deal with, so I will glance at it but not interact unless it’s important (e.g., my kid needs something right away). I feel like that makes me more present than having my phone out, but maybe that’s not how it looks to others and I’m just trying to justify my actions! I’m curious to hear others’ take on that. But I do know people who interact with their watch just as much as their phone and that apparent distraction is annoying regardless of the device involved. Maybe asking if there’s something they need to deal with would make them realize how distracted they appear?

      1. I don’t wear a smart watch, and I definitely see you reading something on your watch (often repeatedly) and am very aware that means I have half your attention and that you’re constantly seeing info from other people and are mentally processing what you want to do with it.

        2. Yep! “Glancing” at the watch is the same level of rudeness as glancing at one’s phone. It’s the same exact thing. And I understand needing to be on call sometimes. I will just tell my friend when I sit down that I’m waiting on a call from my doctor or whatever. But this idea that kid texts or other routine stuff require immediate attention is new and very foreign to me. You truly can give your friends and partners your attention for an hour or two and the world won’t crumble.

          1. I’ll never forget the time we were departing the wilderness after a 9-day trip and one of the other people on the trip, a woman with two school-age kids, had thrived being “unplugged” for the first time since her kids were born but then the second (literally, the very second) we crossed back into service, she called her mother and reminded me to get her son to his violin lesson that day. She had also left said mother with a 30-page schedule that she said “took longer to prep than buying the gear for this trip.” There is something about being plugged in constantly and thinking you NEED to be in constant contact that is pretty damaging, IMO.

        3. +1

          One of the many reasons I refuse to get an Apple watch and have all notifications turned off on my running watch.

      2. Yeah, another vote for you are no more present than someone with their phone in their hand. The good thing about a phone is that I can place it on silent and turn it over to indicate that someone has my full attention. Maybe it’s the overt signal of turning it over or maybe it’s the good eye contact, but people respond well to this approach.

        1. For years, I only have sound on my phone for when the phone rings. Everything else is silent. If you need me in an emergency (basically family that is older than me and my two teens), they know to call. And call. And call until they get me. If I don’t pick up for them, I’m either just down the hall or in the bathroom and will call them right back (and the repeated call-backs will let me know it’s urgent). Nothing else needs a speedy response.

    5. I think with your partner it would be reasonable to propose setting the watch aside, the same way we might set a phone aside, at dinner or for a conversation that needs to be fully engaged.

      For many people, this is just a bad habit they’ve developed that is unconscious and doesn’t mean that they feel what’s on their phone is more important than the conversation they are having. It’s just a dopamine fix, like if they were smoking a cigarette during the conversation, but more annoying since it’s more distracting. I’m not sure it makes sense to feel resentful about it vs. just annoyance?

      Some people may care more about what’s on their phone than they care about you. I think that’s more of a DWI thing if they don’t actually owe you attention for some reason.

      1. I mean, I guess it’s true that my friend doesn’t OWE me anything. But I do think it’s reasonable to expect reciprocity in relationships, so if I’ve been giving her my undivided attention, she should also give me hers?

        1. Maybe? I have some friends and family who check notifications way too often for my comfort. But I have unmedicated ADHD so it probably distracts me more than it distracts them. People are imperfect.

      2. It doesn’t matter if they don’t know they’re doing it, it’s still really rude.

        1. Sure, but it’s weird to be resentful over people being rude; it makes it sound like someone’s reading into it like it’s a deliberate sign of disrespect. Most people who are being rude aren’t being rude at anyone; they’re just poorly socialized / don’t have great self control / low self-awareness / feel like if they don’t pick at that hangnail it will be all they can think about for the next ten minutes, etc.

          1. But it is a deliberate sign of disrespect. They are saying that they value hanging out with you less than the potential entertainment of a random meme or text. Or the fake urgency… gimee a break. I’m a doctor with a severely disabled family member, and I don’t pull this crap. Stop with the excuses. You are rude. Just don’t bother hanging out

          2. Okay, then they don’t value your company very much. How is that something to resent? I’ve never yet found a way to compel people to find me more entertaining or find my company more valuable than they do.

          3. She’s talking about her husband, I think she’s reasonable to be upset. But you do you.

    6. This drives me nuts too. Luckily my partner and I are on the same page, but it’s definitely a thing with many of my coworkers and a couple of my friends. They all think “glancing at it quickly so I don’t get distracted by my phone” is the same as paying attention but it’s not. With my direct reports or friends, I just stop talking or pause the conversation when someone looks at their watch. Enough extended pauses usually gets the point across. At work (but not with friends) if it is happening repeatedly in the same discussion, I say something like “it looks like this isn’t a good time for you, let’s pick this up when it would work better for you!”, and then I immediately turn back to my work or get up to leave. Obviously this only works if it’s junior colleagues, but it gets the point across pretty clearly with them.

      1. +1. I may be too addicted to my phone but at least I leave it in the other room regularly.

      2. You can turn all the notifications off. I like my Apple Watch for the workout features and for getting walking directions without holding my phone, but I have all the other notifications turned off because they are intrusive and annoying.

        1. +1 I love it for the health features ( have issues with heart rate/blood pressure) and for notifications from my texts. I pretty much only look at it during meetings to see if my kids, husband, or sitter texted me but I do get notified if my heart rate is going wonky. Maybe pause and then gently inquire if they need a moment to use the phone? If I see I’ve gotten a bunch of text messages I’ll often excuse myself.

          1. But that’s exactly the issue – it’s not “just” checking texts. Everyone gets tons of texts and it’s a constant attention disrupter.

          2. What I think is being missed in the larger conversation (not OP – she should talk to her partner) is that some of us really do need to be available 24/7 for certain people. My Apple Watch is not set to alert me to emails (I get hundreds and none of them are that important) but it will alert for text messages and phone calls from people in my address book. I look to see who it is from and ignore unless it is my sister (our father is ill), my boss (who would only call my cell in an actual emergency), or my kid. But for those people I need to be reachable. Fortunately most of my friends either have elderly parents, young children or are lawyers (or all three) so they completely understand.

            That said, I do not get that many texts, my group texts are silenced, and calls from anyone not in my address book go straight to voicemail. A lot of this can be addressed with the right settings.

          3. I don’t think that’s being missed at all! The fact of the matter is that most people do not need to be on call 24/7. Some do for various reasons. You can always let your friends know that your sister might call because your dad is sick, and everyone will understand that! But for most people, checking their texts and emails constantly during a conversation is just a compulsion, not a necessary thing.

          4. I think a lot of people lean on that – “I need to be reachable at ALL times for certain people.” Do you really need that for texts, though? People used to call repeatedly for emergencies. I think they still will if you don’t respond to a text.

          5. I am surprised that so many people here live in a world where they can be incommunicado for hours at a time. My watch is not set to buzz for every email or text, but I have to be available all the time for some people (baby sitter/daycare, boss, a small number of clients). I find having my watch is a lot less disruptive than constantly checking my phone. Fortunately that is so common amongst my social circle that we do not all feel the need to preface every interaction with “my sitter might text so I need to check”.

            But it seems that a lot of people have their notifications set to allow everything through. I am not sure how they function!

          6. Truly nobody needs to be reachable like that. People might like to think they’re that important, but nobody is.

          7. I’ve had doctor’s appointments with specialists who really, really did need to interrupt a consultation because of a message. They seem to have developed the skill of being fully present when present though.

          8. This is the opposite of a +1. The point is that you need to turn text notifications off!

          9. You don’t need your phone to be available 24/7. You give your boss and your kid their own ring tones and then you turn your phone over. Silence other calls.

    8. Yesssss I f–king hate this. My husband has one and everything–every stupid sale email, every minor text, it goes off and he has to look at it. I usually stop dead in what I’m saying and glare at him but I’ve decided to let it go overall and just accept the annoyance unless I’m in the middle of a really serious conversation. I do bring it up in the moment like “can that wait?” but I don’t think there’s any fix, sadly.

    9. My husband and best friend do this. I raised it with both, over time, using increasingly specific “I statements” about how I feel unheard and disrespected. In both relationships, one-on-one time together is limited at this stage in our life. When we make the effort to carve it out, I want their attention. Neither think it’s an issue, continue to assure me that they are listening, keep talking, blah, blah. But now I stop to wait until they are done. And you know what? They both start talking about something entirely different, usually whatever popped up on the watch, never about what we were mid-stream in before the watch distraction so they’ve proved my point much to my sadness.
      The real end result is that I am much, much less likely to rework my schedule to fit in these on-on-one sessions. I look forward to them when they can happen naturally in open calendar spaces but I am no longer willing to tie myself in knots (working late or going in early) to make them happen.

    10. If you are old it is because it used to mean the person is checking whether this meeting has gone too long, etc. etc :)

    11. I wear a smart watch because my cardiologist recommended I get one.

      I set up only the notifications I want to receive on the watch. Not as many as my phone. And mine are only a buzz, not a noise. So I feel a notification but no one else has to hear it.

      I can sit and talk to someone with my right hand lightly over the screen on my left side. That stops everything

      It’s not the watch. It’s how your husband uses it.

    12. i have an apple watch and i have to say i’m confused what they’re looking at all the time — there isn’t that much to do on there. i get text messages on there and there are 5 news headlines you can read (but not the stories behind the headlines). you can’t read kindle on it.

      apparently you can get email on it — maybe you can ask your partner to take the email functionality off of the phone? you can add and subtract different apps for your phone.

      1. I agree! I just don’t get that many watch notifications! It only takes a second to set up the ones you want or don’t want, so I have to assume it’s people who want to be notified about everything.

        Rude people gonna rude.

    13. I feel strongly that you would be better off separating the situation with your partner — which sounds like it’s becoming a relationship issue — from the fact that something similar happens with many other people in your life. I know that sounds counter-intuitive since to you it appears like the same “smart watch etiquette” issue, but trying to get everyone to stop or behave better will take up a lot of your energy, and is likely to yield very mixed results.

      With your partner, you have a different type of claim over their attention. You can set aside a time to discuss it and come up with a plan that works for both of you. Other commenters have already suggested things to say.

      With good friends and family, you could try a similar approach, but it would help to recognize you don’t have the same claim over everyone’s attention.

      Elsewhere, it will depend a lot on the context and the nature of your relationship with the person. The same approach won’t necessarily work with everyone. In some cases, you may decide it’s not worth having the conversation. In other cases, like at work, you may need to come up with a subtle way to take care of yourself, and it will still not be the same, depending on the relative power of the parties, group vs individual context, client/service provider relationships, etc.

    14. to everyone annoyed by partners who do this – have them remove email from their apple watch apps. then have them use the “theater” setting while you’re having a big discussion — it darkens the watch and turns off all notifications but only or a limited time.

    15. OP go for it,
      I have such gratitude for all of your input. I will have the conversation with my partner tonight.
      We currently remove phones during meals; however, I can request that the watch go too, and/or to modify
      notifications. This situation with friends and family is less emotional, and I have spoken up.
      My new tactic with others will be the pause.

  4. I need a swimming bathing suit (like the kind for kids on a swim team) for lap swimming. I am 32B, 30 inch waist and 40” hips. Any measurement yields a different size. I don’t want to have to wrestle the suit in, so just go with the largest size? I know a lot of brands are aimed at young athletic swimmers, but if any brand is good for a 50+ swimmer getting back into it, I will start looking at those first. Thanks!

    1. Tyr has some suits with good coverage in the Control Fit line. I have a bust to hip ratio similar to yours, but a smaller waist, and take my usual pant size.

      1. For adults, don’t wear any cute suits you love. If you are me, your suits get only a bit wet b/c you are generally lounging at the pool/beach or you are wading in or sitting and dipping in your feet. Suits keep their color and last for ages. Pool swimming is a daily chlorine drench that may make your favorite suit less cute and eventually wear out (this is a good thing overall! but a word of warning). And if it’s a pool frequented by kids, they tend to be generous with the chlorine even if most of the day it may be used only by non-incontinent lap swimmers and adults who don’t pee in the pool.

      2. Tankinis are SO ANNOYING for lap swimming because they move around too much. OP, maybe a Athleta has some options?

    4. I am a 38A with 34″ waist and 44″ hips and find Athleta XL/size 14 to have good active suits that fit me decently. You are obviously a smaller size than I am, but your ratios seem similar.

    5. Oh I just went through this and it was the least fun thing I’ve done in a while. I bought the largest size of a TYR plain suit that Dick’s had and it’s tight but workable. I have a larger chest than you, similar waist size but smaller hips. It’s bare bones—no padding or anything.

      I also found another suit at Dick’s that’s more for water aerobics or less athletic water pursuits but it fits better. I believe it’s also a TYR suit but not 100% on that. I haven’t worn it for lap swimming yet but it has a built in shelf bra with some padding. I got a 12 which is true to size for me. I’ll see if I can find links.

    7. What about a two-piece athletic suit so you could have different sizes for top and bottom?

    8. Similar disparity in my body shape and I’ve had better luck with athletic two-pieces than one-piece.
      Nike, Tyr, Speedo all make them. Top is like a sports-bra, not a fashion bikini.

    9. Hope I’m not too late – you need this: Speedo Womens Ultraback One Piece Swimsuit

      1. In my 40s and wear this for water fitness classes! I bought it off my hip measurement, similarly am 2 sizes on top and bottom.

  5. Any hints for Lyft where you are in a rural area and any car will do? I’d take any ride but don’t know how to convey that versus trying options (which can be sparse). But it’s often 10 minutes to try an option and often I get a try back, people are busy message and it’s hard to cycle through again and again.

    1. If I understand your question, you are fine with a standard Lyft but frustrated that sometimes you can’t get a car when you want one. My suggestion would be to try scheduling ahead for the car for when you need it. Outside of that, when you want one on demand, you may have trouble. I also had the same problem at the airport in NYC. Uber seems to have less of this, so maybe try that.

      1. Agree. The downside is scheduled rides are usually more expensive than you’d pay ordering one as-needed, but IMHO would be worth it if the alternative is being stuck for half an hour just waiting for someone to accept.

      2. OP here — this is great. I’d never thought to do that (IDK why), but it seems promising. I’ve booked the needed ride for tomorrow morning at the time I was hoping to get it this morning. [I am used to a city were rides swarm like gnats, my older parents are in a rural area and a car got sideswiped in a town near them and is in the shop. YES, they should have moved closer to family or to a retirement community but they didn’t and now we manage with the options we have. I used to be an Uber/Lyft hater but it is a lifeline for the community that doesn’t have cars or doesn’t drive (I have one parent of each kind now).]

      3. Scheduling ahead in an area with few drivers does not actually mean you will get a car. If there are no drivers who work that time of day, you will just get a notification at the time of your ride that Uber/Lyft is unable to fulfill your request.

        Source: I travel to an area like this for work. You need to book with a local taxi service.

  6. Last-minute Toronto recommendations? I’m staying at the Sheraton Centre downtown until Sunday. I have plans Thursday night and all day Saturday, otherwise open and traveling solo. Planning on the shoe museum, possibly the zoo or aquarium. Anything else I can’t miss?

    1. Be warned that Monday is a holiday here (Canada Day) so Toronto will probably be insane in terms of tourists, crowds, etc. It’s our biggest long weekend.

      The zoo isn’t downtown and takes like an hour to drive there, longer by public transit. It’s a wonderful zoo though if you don’t mind the trek.

      The Mirvish Theatre has Broadway shows if you feel like seeing a show.

      If there’s anything shopping you want to do, we have almost all the same stores as the US and your dollar will go a lot further!

    2. Recommend taking the ferry to Toronto islands! It’s a ten minute ferry and the island has great views of downtown.

      St Lawrence Market is a fun place to snack/have lunch.

    3. Art Gallery of Ontario for Group of Seven art
      Royal Ontario Museum for the Immersive Journey exhibit

  7. What do you wear on a plane? Short flights/long flights and do you bring a travel pillow, blanket etc? Bag to store stuff under the seat? I have a milestone birthday coming up and want to feel not so schlubby on the flight.

    1. Denim or Athleta Brooklyns unless I’m going straight into a meeting. My legs like to touch fabric vs seats.

      1. I fly from the Uk to southern Europe regularly and am so confused by the people in really short shorts. Like good for them, not for me, but don’t the plane seats feel gross on your bare bum?
        I tend to wear lightweight trousers, a stripey shirt, a hoodie and sneakers, no pillow but my flights are all under 4 hours. My child has a neck pillow shaped like a dragon which is the bane of my existence.

      2. If you think about the number of people of people who have accidents on planes, it’s no cleaner than an upholstered subway system car. Team pants all the way!

    2. If it’s a long flight, I wear my Vuori joggers, a loose-fitting tank top, and the Athleta Coaster Lux sweatshirt. It’s not the most flattering outfit, but it’s comfy and warm.

      If it’s a shorter flight and I want to look a bit more put together, I love my wide leg pants in fun colors. You can find them on Amazon by searching “Heymoments Women’s Wide Leg Lounge Pants with Pockets Lightweight High Waisted Adjustable Tie Knot Loose Trousers”. I wear these to staff conferences, off-sites, etc. because they feel like PJs, but they’re structured enough for my tech role.

      I pair them with a plain, fitted t-shirt, and a dark wash denim jacket.

    3. Currently sitting at the airport wearing a grey tshirt, navy joggers, and sneakers. Would have brought my Athleta pranayama wrap for comfort but I forgot it. I’m not worried about being schlubby, though I do draw the line at pajamas. My interest in comfort directly corresponds with the length of the flight. Personal item is always my Lo and Sons Rowledge, currently stocked with my tech, toiletries, and snacks.

    4. I think the fancy people are wearing expensive sweatsuits/lounge sets these days, which I can’t totally get on board with but do look nice on others. If you want something more dressed up but still comfy, I like Universal Standard’s ponte pants.

      1. Anyone have recommendations for the expensive sweatsuit set look? There’s a je ne sais quoi about it that makes it look luxurious vs schlubby and I don’t trust myself to pick the right thing.

        Also, how are you removing the top layer without messing up your hair and makeup? The ones I’ve seen aren’t zip ups. Are these people always cold even on swelteringly hot planes and airports? Also why are planes and airports so hot nowadays, they always used to be cold. I was walking through IAH a few weeks ago and there was NO AC in whole sections of the airport. The AC on the plane was off until halfway through boarding. I was in an early boarding group and asked if I could step back off until the AC was on… nope. Madness.

        1. I can confirm that planes and airports are much hotter than they were maybe a decade ago. It’s gross and I am sure the lack of airflow contributes to the spread of germs. And smells.

          Frank & Eileen makes the expensive sweatsuits the influencers are shilling, but I haven’t seen one in the wild yet. The tops are all pullovers, which I won’t wear on a plane because they are much more trouble to put on and take off without elbowing one’s neighbor than a cardigan or zip-up. I prefer fancy sweatpants with a denim jacket or jeans with an open cardigan.

    5. I don’t have any trouble being comfortable in stretchy jeans, particularly boyfriend style, so will usually wear those (whether short, long, overnight) so as to feel like a real person on arrival. Unless traveling somewhere hot, in which case it’s a lightweight dress or linen joggers. I bring my own wrap but definitely not a blanket or pillow – snob alert but I never feel like the people wandering the airport with dangling puffy neck pillows look like seasoned travelers…and in any event they don’t work very well! On overnight flights the airlines provide blankets, which I usually just fold up for lumbar support as opposed to needing for warmth.

      You’ll see a lot of cropped sweatshirt + matching bottoms looks around, but that doesn’t match my personal style so I skip it.

    6. Short flight = whatever I want to be wearing the rest of the day
      long flight (international), I really want to feel crisp and clean, so I pare down my flight outfit. Nothing at all that wrinkles. Technical fabrics and knits. Good fit. Nice white sneakers. No floppy totebags or baggy backpacks with lots of dangly bits. No t-shirt necklines that droop or sag when pulled at by backpack straps. No colors (black, white, and gray only). This isn’t how I dress in daily life, but it’s my preferred for very long flights.

    7. No to travel pillows (they’re annoying to carry around and they look dorky) but I bring a wrap and an eye mask.

      1. I use the travel pillow as a pillow and put it on the folded-down tray table or use it against the window. IDK who can use it as a neck pillow and have it work (maybe if you stacked 2-3 of them). I’m not a hater, but my camping pillow is no better really.

      2. Well, first we had “is my water bottle professional”, now we have “is my travel pillow dorky”. Ha!

        1. Anyone on a flight long enough to need an eye mask is not worried about whether you think they’re dorky.

          1. Agreed, I’m just saying the poster thinks pillows are not worth bringing because they’re dorky and I’m pointing out eye masks are too lol

    8. It entirely depends on the length of the flight, weather, and if it is work/personal. For personal travel of short (4hrs or under) duration I generally wear joggers (Vuori for warm weather, Varley or Lululemon for cold), a gauze button down over a tank (warm weather) or a tunic sweatshirt (cold weather) with a down vest as an added layer if I’m not wearing a coat. I always take a large tote as my personal item and rarely check luggage unless its 5+ days so I usually have a hard sided bag (Monos) with me. I wear my heaviest shoes on the flight, which are usually fashion sneakers or boots in bad weather.

    9. I wear black Vuori leggings, white Athleta tank and cropped black cardigan and white and black Veja sneakers. Black tote (LV black leather I’ve had forever and it’s a workhorse)

    10. I always travel in jeans. I traveled in shorts once as a teenager coming home from a summer camp job and I got stuck in an airport overnight. I blame the incredible cold I got after that on sleeping in the arctic A/C in shorts. Never again!

    11. Fitted T-shirt, sweatshirt, leggings, socks and sneakers. I don’t feel like a total slob but I’m comfortable. I bring pajamas (loose t-shirt and sweatpants) for overnight flights, especially if I’m in business class and have a bed.

    12. Eileen Fisher crêpé pants, a loose sleeveless top, and a mid length cardigan (not duster, not cropped). A pashmina or other large, wide scarf. Compression stockings. Flat shoes that I can slip off.

    13. Black comfy leggings (not the kind that are meant to hold in the jiggles while you work out), white tee cropped at about waist height, long beigey light brown open front cardigan that goes a little bit past my butt, a little oversized and drapey so it can also be kind of like a blanket, and sneakers.

    14. Compression socks! I never fly more than a few hours without them. I recently upgraded to compression leggings for a 14 hour flight and it makes such a difference. I no longer bring a travel pillow. They take up way too much room in a carry on and they’re not comfortable. I don’t bother with a blanket; on a flight long enough to need one they’ll give you one. Small Fjallraven bag for under the seat to keep my water bottle, headphones, book, and little things I want immediately accessible.

    15. I bought a black cashmere “pashmina” many years ago and it’s my go to for plane travel. I can wrap it around my neck, so it doesn’t take up space in my carry on. It’s very lightweight, but warm, so I can wrap up in it if I’m chilled. Folded, it can serve as a pillow.

    16. Black cotton knit Duluth Trading “No-Ga” straight-leg pants, a print 3/4-sleeve t-shirt from Chicos (for when — not “if” — I spill something down my front), and a cardigan or jackety-cover-up. No earrings, as they interfere with the Bose over-the-ear noise-cancelling headphones, which are nonnegotiable. I am still seeking the unicorn neck pillow that can be compressed for transport, but still fits around my neck and chin without being too spongy (and therefore useless to support my head from snapping forward and back when I’m sleepy). Necklace and bracelet are ok, but I avoid rings, in case my fingers swell up during the flight. Socks and slip on sneaker-type shoes, and yes, compression socks for long-haul flights. Nobody likes to see bare feet walking through security or on a flight, so no sandals or flip flops. I try to tuck in an extra pair of panties and another 3/4-sleeve print t-shirt in my carry-on.

  8. Thank you to whoever recommended The Husbands! I finished reading yesterday and laughed out loud a couple of times.

    2. This is the second recommendation for this I’ve seen today! It must be fate, I put it on my hold list.

      1. Not OP but I’ve read both. Didn’t like the Chandler Baker one, and really liked the Holly Gramazio one.

  9. Good morning, I’ll have a day to myself on Friday while visiting Pittsburgh for the weekend; does anyone have any recommendations for things to do? I have evening and weekend plans, so it’s just the one day. I’d particularly appreciate fun neighborhoods to explore and pretty walks or hikes to take. Thank you!

    1. Check out Sydney of Summer Wind – blogger based in Pittsburgh. She recommends local restaurants regularly.

    2. Pittsburgh is great. I used to visit a lot, but it’s been long enough I don’t want to give specific recs. For neighborhoods, though, check out the Strip District, Shadyside, and Squirrel Hill. The museums are generally good too, if that’s your kind of thing and want an indoor activity.

    3. The Phipps is really nice if you like botanical gardens. For cute neighborhoods, Strip District or Lawrenceville. Restaurant recs: For lunch, Driftwood Pizza, DiAnoia’s or Merchant Oyster Co. For dinner, Bar Marco, Spork, Fish Nor Fowl

    4. If you like fancy old houses, the Clayton house at the Frick museum tour is cool. They also have a neat vintage car museum (and an art museum that I didn’t have time for but I think is supposed to be good).

    6. In addition to the above, the Duquesne incline and the Andy Warhol museum might be of interest.

    7. If it’s hot and you need a break, head to the National Aviary. It doesn’t look like much from the outside, but it’s a wonderful place to spend a few hours. Fascinating place to unplug.

    9. Go to Oakland and visit the Cathedral of Learning at Pitt and the museums. Check out the historic South Side for good food and night life.

  10. I’ve been dating a guy for about 3 months who I could see myself marrying. We have such a good time together, get along well, communicate well and want the same things (marriage/kids). We’re both 35. In a year, he’ll move overseas for work for about five years but then would move back to our area. I don’t want to throw away a good relationship but the more I think about it, the more i don’t want to do long distance. I’ve been single forever and I’m fine with it but I’m tired of being all my friends third wheel and I want someone to spend time with. Has anyone been in a similar situation? I feel like I’ll regret ending it but I don’t want to waste anyone’s time if I’m pretty sure I’ll be unhappy.

    1. If you’re married why couldn’t you move with him? Or is it a military situation?

    3. Would you want to go where he is going? I have a good friend who moved to Australia for her then-fiance’s job that was a similar time-limited stint, and she loves it. I know getting a work visa might be a challenge but perhaps his company could help? This is only if you get serious enough to be committed before you leave, but you have a year to get there. If you absolutely know you wouldn’t go with him, then yes I think ending it sooner might be kinder to you both. Five years is a long time, and in your prime child-having years as well.

    5. If you’re 35 and you want kids, long distance for 5 years isn’t even on the table as an option. Your options are to move overseas or break it off.

      1. This. If you’re 3 months in, then assess again in 3 months but your options are either you move with him, he doesn’t move, or you break up.

      6. I’m pregnant right now, and I can’t imagine doing it on my own. The utter exhaustion and brain fog is so real. I had no idea. I also wouldn’t recommend waiting 5 years to TTC.

        1. You would be fine on your own! I am not minimizing your symptoms but you would be surprised at what you can do on your own when you have to. Your capacity as a parent expands to meet the need.

          That said, 100% agree that if you want to have biological children without major medical intervention, waiting until you are 40 to start TTC is not a great idea.

          Signed – A Single Mother By Choice who did it all on her own

    6. End it, your timing just doesn’t line up. Don’t waste key dating years especially if you want to have kids.

    7. Well there’s overseas then there’s overseas. If you’re in NYC and he’s in London, that’s a ~6 hour relatively inexpensive direct flight, totally doable. If he’s in Australia that’s a whole different thing and frankly I would end the relationship now and not waste more time and emotional energy on a dead end.

      DH and I did 2 years long distance that was a 5 hour drive apart. It was hard but fine. It was annoying to TTC because we couldn’t get the timing quite right. That would be my biggest concern for you. You’re going to want to have kids within that 5 year window. How do you feel about not getting the chance to try naturally? You’d have to go straight into at least IUI. How do you feel about going through a pregnancy and delivery alone? Do you have family nearby?

    8. I was the person who knew I was going to move a year later for a 5 year position, when I met a guy I liked. I was totally thinking that if things worked out we could get married and he could come with me! Things didn’t work out with us – I learned from mutual friends that he was completely unwilling to do long-distance after having had a previous long-distance relationship, and he really backed away once he learned that I was going to move. (Don’t worry – I met my husband through that job and am super happy with my life). But for you, I think the question I’d ask myself is if you’re willing to go on the adventure with him! You’re both 35 – it’s reasonable to start making plans together after a year or so. If you want to have kids, it might work out ideally that you can have a little career pause while raising kids, or, enjoy more household help, etc, than you could otherwise afford. If you are open to an adventure, then I’d just lean into enjoying getting to know him.

    9. For this to work with the possibility of bio children, I think he’s going to have to find a different job that doesn’t require a move or you’re going to have to move with him.

    10. That is extremely reasonable – five years long distance at a key phase of adulthood doesn’t sound like what I’d want for my life either. If you’d be open to moving to where he is going (like you’d want to live there and can get a work visa reasonably easily), I’d wait three months and see if you still like him and then discuss if he’d be interested in that and start making the plans to do it. If you wouldn’t want to live there or it’s not realistic, break up now and move on.

    11. I did 3.5 years of long distance and the relationship ultimately didn’t make it. It was a military situation. It was really hard, I wouldn’t recommend it, and I wouldn’t do it again.

    12. Been there, married him, moved abroad, best decision I ever made. I was nervous for the impact to my own career but with patience and persistence, I found a way to keep doing meaningful work and even advance. The key was that one of our shared values is wanting an adventure out of life. 10/10 would recommend.

  11. I did the thing: a few weeks ago, I heard one of my neighbors throwing his wife around their bedroom. Now, this room is on the opposite side of the unit, furthest away from my own apartment across the courtyard. I could hear one child crying “papa papa papa.” He was yelling, slamming things (her, the door). I called another neighbor and asked if she’d heard anything. “Yeah, it’s been going on for a few months.”

    The next day I called a DV hotline to ask how to handle it. She gave some good advice. I finally ascertained that the wife and kids had gone away for a few weeks (he has so much control over them he allows them to travel) AND that he has left the apartment this morning for work. So I DM’ed her via Facebook (“Hi, it’s your neighbor”). She replied almost immediately Hi, which surprised me because we’re not FB friends and she’s likely in Europe, so time difference. I said I was very concerned and hoped I was wrong, and that’s all. No reply after that…

    I will urge her to stay there, to get help, to protect her children… I’m afraid he will kill her eventually.

    1. Are you sure it’s her you are communicating with? A controlling man might be monitoring her FB messenger.

      3. Yeah… I know couples that share account logins and I would actually assume either that was him responding or he has seen it through logging into her account.
        Please be careful and look out for your own safety. There’s a decent chance he saw your message and knows who you are.

    2. Well done. From the other side she may be feeling embarrassed and ashamed – it is very hard to admit to domestic violence. It is also very hard to know what to say when someone is being kind, and you know you have to make a decision yourself. She may not be ready to take active steps, but kudos to you being there for her.

    3. Maybe just send her the DV hotline information and don’t necessarily expect a response? It’s really good that you care and are concerned, but not sure what kind of response you were expecting – “yes you’re right I’m in a bad situation”? She might not be ready to open up to a stranger.

    4. Can’t you call the police while it’s happening? She could be getting killed during for all you know.

      1. +1, I don’t quite understand not calling the police – is there a reason to not do this?

        1. I’m not sure. I know someone whose partner threatened her with a knife and she called 911. The police who showed up were truly awful about it, treated her like some kind of suspect, and like it was all beneath their attention. I think it was still worth it to establish a pattern for the courts when they split up later, and for immediate safety, though the threat of retaliation was real (and completely unalleviated).

          I once had neighbors who called the police pretty routinely over arguments, so I think maybe the police are kind of jaded on this kind of call. Maybe it’s taken more seriously coming from a third party; I’m not sure. “Officer-involved DV” is still a huge problem of its own, but local cultures can vary.

      2. I once called the police when a woman was screaming for help and calling out for someone to call for help. I don’t think she ever forgave me, and she certainly never left him, and they seemed to have a good relationship afterwards? We’ve all learned a lot about the risks of police intervention since then, so I don’t know what I would do today.

        1. I guess thinking about it, I’d try to get to know my neighbors better sooner, so I’d have more context, but that’s hindsight.

        2. I wouldn’t call the police unless I thought he was actually killing her and she was yelling for help. Once the police/courts are involved, it’s all out of the victim’s hands and may well go in directions that are not at all helpful for her.

          2. Not really, as how would you ever, ever know if he was going to kill her?

            You should call the cops. You should do something.

            Twice in my life, I have been in the position where I have screamed for help, where my life could have been at risk, and no one…. NO ONE…. came to help, or called the police. Everyone just stayed in their apartments.

          3. If someone were in fact screaming for help, I would call. Otherwise, no, for the reasons I stated above.

          4. So if you are being beaten, raped, robbed remember to scream “help”. Then people will call? Not true.

            In fact, the Police told me during a self-defense class in school that you shouldn’t yell “help”. That people are…. unhelpful, and are actually less likely to help if they hear you scream that. They taught us to scream “fire”. Yes…. “fire”, as that makes people more likely to call 911. No one wants their own apartment to burn down, so this turns on the survival instinct.

            But they don’t care about the person screaming help. Or the poor person just…. screaming.

    5. Can you share the advice that the DV helpline gave you? I hope I’m never in your shoes. But I’d like to follow the best practices if I am, and my gut reaction would have been to handle things very differently. I would have called the police during an altercation in hopes of getting her help and keeping myself anonymous. And I never would have made contact with any family member in a way that would risk the abuser knowing who I am.

      1. Let her know you’re concerned. Be aware that she’s probably not ready to admit it. Let her know there are options. Tell her you can help if she needs it.

        I did give her the DV number here in town. I also gave her my number and told her to put it in contacts under Edna (NOT my name). Edna: emergency developing, need assistance.

        It’s like the woman who called for “pizza” to cover a call for help. My neighbor is out of the country right now, and, while I know he’s extremely intelligent and could be monitoring her on certain levels, I think the fact he let the family leave for a vacation means he knows how much control he has over her.

    6. Social psychology discovered the bystander effect in the 70s, after a woman in New York was killed in a crowded neighborhood after yelling for help for a prolonged period, and none of the neighboring residents who could hear her tried to intervene or even called the police. Google Kitty Genovese for details.

      So I applaud your solidarity with this woman! I’m also wondering if it would help to separate what you need to do for your own peace of mind vs what will be actually helpful to her, especially if you don’t know her and her situation well. As an adult, I made the uncomfortable discovery that many women stay in abusive relationships longer than an outside observer may consider appropriate, for important reasons that the observer may not have access to, like economic dependency, cultural/religious pressure, or not having sufficient family and community resources and support to make a clean break. Letting her know about the DV hotline (in a safe way) gives her options. Telling her you’re afraid he’ll do X, Y, or Z may just intensify her shame, especially if you don’t know each other well.

      1. Also turns out that what was originally reported about that murder wasn’t true and there were witnesses that attempted to contact the police.

    7. Call the police when you hear someone being hurt. I had a case where the downstairs neighbor heard the cries early in the morning and did nothing. She was found dead a few hours later. CALL THE POLICE.

      2. I agree. It’s impossible to predict what the outcome would be if the police are called, so don’t make a decision to NOT call (ie NOT help) based on hypothetical consequences to the victim. Also, there’s a kid involved?! Please call.

    8. I called the police. My neighbor had an abusive bf. It was a year of hearing their fights through my living room wall, until one night I happened to see them come into her apartment with his toddler around 330pm. I called the police around 930-10pm after listening to them escalate, their screaming, his threats, doors slamming.

      A few things:
      I have a right to peaceful enjoyment in my home and qiuet hours according to my lease agreement. A resident and their nonresident visitor were disturbing that right.

      A young child was present. In a scary, dangerous situation with adults not acting in their best interests. I’ve been a child trapped in a house with screaming fighting adults where there was no one to over hear.

      Making the choice to be the active bystander is hard. But I rather live in a world where my neighbors and community do something, even if its not perfect, rather than nothing.

      It would be a life long regret if something happened that could have been prevented.

      1. Yes, I agree. I confirmed with a neighbor who shares a bedroom wall with them. She’d been hearing “something” thrown against the wall for several months. I know this is not “just an argument” as the wife claimed.

        Once I gave her the information, and my concern, I stopped the DM. They have two little girls. IF she comes back, and IF it happens again, and IF I can hear it from my place, I will call the police. The police used to come to our complex a lot for a different apartment’s DV.

        The “family” is from Europe. As far as I know she has no work visa. I hope to God she stays there this summer. I know the biggest reason women don’t leave or report is shame: how could I, an educated, strong woman, allow this to happen to me???

        1. All I can say is that when I called the police (in the UK) to help me, they did not question, and made me feel heard. They provided the framework for me to get out of my relationship. I have posted a lot here over the last few months about it. I would have been so embarrassed if someone else had called, but I think in the long run I would have been grateful. Absolutely I felt ashamed about how I could have let myself get into this situation.

        2. I have an educated, successful friend who felt trapped in an abusive marriage for a long time. The shame was a big part of it too, but also – how could she get a divorce when her abusive, alcoholic husband would certainly get partial custody of their young son? Especially when husband’s family were wealthy and powerful (his father a state level politician.) It’s a lot harder than “just leave.”

  12. For the attorneys (or those in adjacent practice groups), what software do you use to make your document templates interactive? This is for my firm’s estate planning group. We are looking at Wealth Counsel and a few others, but what I’m really interested in is making the form database that we already have in word into templates that can have certain information populate but still maintain an editable quality for customizations.

    1. Isn’t this the purpose of the developer features in word? or am I missing something?

    2. assemble-it. We completely make our own forms. I’ve used Wealth Counsel in the past and another system that I can’t recall the name of (ILS?). There are customizations, but you’re more stuck with the forms. Our way is that we generate all of the content but it takes a group effort to stay up to date.

  13. Recently divorced (yay!) after 24year marriage to an absolutely impossible person.
    We *just* sold our house for a nice sum – no mortgage so I have a big chunk of money. Obviously it will be invested- but thinking of treating myself to something.
    Anyone been in a similar position? Any recs?

    (I don’t need a trip – I have a sexy new boyfriend- we do lots of trips together haha)

    Thanks!

    1. Don’t you need a new house? Where are you living now? If you don’t need the money for a new place, I’d buy something for wherever you’re living now.

      1. I’m renting (in very very high cost of living area) – will take my time to buy – no rush. Will invest money.

        1. Then something nice, but portable to a new place, like bedding, a small appliance or nice pans, something pretty to look at, etc.

    2. Twinsies! I was only married for 9 years and the house wasn’t paid off, but cheers for post-divorce windfalls and sexy new boyfriends :)

      I haven’t treated myself to anything yet but have been considering it. Like you I can’t decide what I want though.

    3. Congrats! Sounds like things are going really well for you! I like to treat myself to experiences instead of things, but sounds like you have trips covered. Is there a hobby or new skill you’ve been wanting to pursue? Trip to France to learn to bake bread?

    5. New sheets/pillows/bed for your new apartment.

      And invest the rest… in your future.

      Congratulations.

      1. Highly endorse this suggestion. I have been divorced for eight years now and am still made happy by the new bed and bedding I bought immediately afterward. They’re just what I wanted, and represented breaking away from always accommodating someone who wasn’t giving me any emotional sustenance or day-to-day support in return.

      1. I got a right hand ring after my divorce a few years ago, and still love it! It pairs nicely with the new engagement ring I just got from my now fiance :)

    7. If nothing in particular comes to mind that feels like treating yourself right now, invest/save all the money for now. When the right thing comes to mind (and it will, and you’ll know), you have permission to treat yourself then!

      1. Oooh girl I have bought a lot of very sexy lingerie lately haha (to go along with my sexy boyfriend).
        How wonderful it is after a dead sex life for so many years!

    9. Woo hoo! Maybe a session with a fashion stylist? I did a closet cleanout and shopping trip with Angie of You Look Fab and it was amazing.

      And go you with your awesome self!!

    10. Massage!
      My current divorce is incredibly stressful

      I would get a head to toe treatment with all the extras
      A glow up from the inside out

  14. Epipen question. For those who must carry for themselves or have a teen or tween who self-carries, how do you handle being out and about during the summer? As I understand it, if the epipen is exposed to 85 degree or 90 degree heat for an extended period of time, the active ingredient degrades a lot. And if it’s too cold, then the injection mechanism doesn’t work well. So how do you keep it at a reasonable temperature if you’re out and about during the summer?

    1. I used to carry a small insulated cooler bag (search for diabetic supply bags or epipen cooler bags) inside of a larger baby bag or tote. If I was out and about that much I’d generally need a bag large enough for water, tissues, wallet, wipes, etc. so adding in a cooler bag wasn’t a big deal. It’s probably a good idea to also discuss with your child that they will always need a slightly larger bag – epipen, travel sized benadryl, alcohol wipes, keys, phone, wallet – it’s just hard to fit all that in a belt bag.

      1. Oh, and since epipens had to (maybe still do?) be replaced every 6 months we’d try to time it for replacements in September/March, so we knew we had a ‘fresh’ one for the start of the school year.

      2. Do you put a small ice pack in the cooler bag? Are you concerned about it being too cold?

        1. I’d do a small gel pack, not a full on ice pack so it wouldn’t get too cold, more like ‘cool’. I also live in MA so our summers are different than say, TX, where an ice pack would make sense if you’re really outside for 3-5 hours.

    2. It’s a pain! I have one for bee stings (but I’m not super allergic- I’ve only had an anaphylactic reaction once, decades ago) so mine mostly stays at home and only comes on hikes or trips where I’m not near a hospital. I never leave it in the car and it’s not generally that hot where I live (and I try to avoid being outside when it is super hot, as I hate the heat- if it’s too hot for the epipen, it’s too hot for me!) so it’s not too much of concern with the way I use it. If you really need to have it with you all the time and can’t avoid the heat, then you probably just have to replace them more frequently.

    3. I’ve always wondered this too. The storage temperature range for Epipen is 68-77 °F. The excursion range is 59°F-86°F. And they’re not supposed to be refrigerated. (It’s a never ending source of frustration to me so many meds can’t even be refrigerated in a pinch, as if everyone who needs medications has effective climate control!)

      I think what people actually do is put a frozen pack in an insulated bag, but I’d worry ice would get too cold and the not as cold gel packs wouldn’t keep it cool long enough. But maybe the gel packs are the best we can do.

    4. DH did a lot of research on this (he’s a scientist so I trust him), basically unless it’s frozen, don’t stress too much about the lower end. For the higher end situations, we use a small cooler bag with a gel pack cooler. Kind of like you get for a kid’s lunch box. Keeps it cool but not cold. We rotate between a few over the summer to minimize exposure to temperature variants and then do fresh for back to school.

  15. Question for those who offer family/friends rates for their work:

    How do you determine what reduction you want to give? For family, usually I’ll just bill expenses, but for people with whom I have more of a casual or friendly relationship with, I don’t want to work for free, but I also want to acknowledge that we have a more personal relationship.

        1. I was thinking the same thing. I’m happy to support an acquaintance’s business without a discount.

    2. My father gave his stepmother free legal services. The rest of his very close family who did not abuse his help got expenses-only services. Close friends got his normal going rate minus something like a nominal 5% discount on his hourly rate only for the first X hours per case.

      He tried giving friends a more robust discount early on but found they did not value his advice when they didn’t really have to pay for it, and also did not take his invoices seriously. Distant cousins would treat him like a literal get-out-of-jail-free card. He had to write off too many of those highly-discounted invoices and stopped that practice.

      Once in a while he would still give a friend a highly discounted flat rate for a discrete service if he knew they were in a bind financially. While he more often than not had to write those off, too, he went in assuming he would not ever see payment on those.

    3. I have a rack rate, and then I discount that rate for certain entities. E.g., I have a “non-profit rate” and a “government rate”. I give that rate to the kinds of people I think you’re referring to, like when I helped my son’s friend’s parent with a severance agreement (and I had a really light hand on the invoice). If it’s B2B though, I don’t tend to discount–I consider them normal clients.

  16. I’m curious if anyone here has started their own solo practice/consulting business. I’m a lawyer with a niche specialty and have been in house for a few years. It’s become apparent that there’s a gap in the market I could fill with my skill set. The idea of more flexible hours appeals to me – the work is not time sensitive. I’d like to start planning to put myself in a position to do this in a few years.

    Steps I’m planning on taking include rejoining the bar committee in this area, increasing my speaking engagements, getting back into networking events and getting a related certification.

    Any advice/tips/things to think about are welcome.

    1. I’m excited for you! Owning your own firm is the best. Since you’re in-house, and you don’t have a book that will travel with you, the ideas you’ve set out are good ones. Writing articles on your niche area is another idea. Save up for the costs needed to run your firm between launch and income. The first couple of years might be very lean. When I launched my firm I needed an accountant and an IT person for initial setup. The accountant was experienced in advising small businesses and she assisted with getting my business license etc. I also hired a designer to create a logo and website design. Start collecting contact info for everyone you’ll want to send your big announcement to. Another thing that has worked well (depending on the type of client you’re targeting, and this is for after you’ve launched your firm) is to create a CLE presentation and offer to present it for the target client’s legal department, in person and for free. The presentation should highlight all the pitfalls that could go wrong if the client doesn’t hire you. ;) Is there any chance that your current employer might become your first client? Be sure that you’re working with and impressing the person who will be deciding whether to hire your firm down the road. Good luck!

    2. I opened my own one-woman shop four years ago, though I am not a lawyer. I’m a consultant. My tips are: charge enough and get insurance.

      Make sure your rates aren’t too low. Check around and see what others in your field charge. What I went with, because I’m a fairly senior person in my industry, was an hourly rate equal to double my old salary. Remember, you have to pay both sides of the payroll taxes, an LLC tax if applicable, and you have to buy insurance and provide all your own equipment and all of that so that eats into your salary.

      A very high priority should be getting professional liability insurance that include cyber insurance if it all possible. I think your bar association may be a good place to start, though because I’m not a lawyer I didn’t have the luxury of that so it was harder for me.

      I assume you’re setting up an LLC of some sort. There are different ways to structure the LLC as I’m sure you know. I ended up doing a sole proprietor LLC and didn’t bother doing the more complicated set up to try to defer taxes.

      It seems like you already have thoughts on how to generate business. For me that was letting all my industry friends know what I was doing, and they ended up referring business to me. I didn’t have to search for any business myself and consider myself very fortunate for that. A couple of people found me through LinkedIn, but they didn’t end up being clients at all with the exception of one. Which wasn’t great.

      Good luck to you! It has been incredibly liberating for me, I was really very much over the corporate bullshit, and I hope it is for you too.

    3. I recommend you check out Mass LOMAP which is a law office practice management non-profit based in Massachusetts. They offer workshops and lots of help for solos or people launching a practice. You don’t have to be based in MA to take advantage.

      masslomap.org/startups

    4. Ohh! This is me for the last two years. I love it. I make more money and work a lot less than I did at a firm. Plus I love, love, love answering to no one.

      Off the top of my head — (1) don’t take on too much work at first or say yes to everything or work you wouldn’t normally do, until you are in your groove — I had a cushion financially, so I wasn’t taking on work to fill financial holes, and it took me a bit to understand how long things took as a solo (even though I handled most of my substantive work solo at my old firm, it was still different). I also wanted to get away from the model at my old firm of being asked to say yes to EVERYTHING and EVERYONE and pushing out mediocre product. Instead, I produced excellent product for a few clients, and strategically have added clients over the years. If you really have a niche, you will never want for clients if you are putting out good work product. I don’t have a website, nor do I advertise, but I regularly turn away clients bc I am at capacity.

      I was also surprised at how many folks came out of the woodwork asking to join me or wanting me to join their firm after I announced my departure from my old firm. It was hard, but I also said no to all of these, with no regrets now. In most cases, I would have given up autonomy for very little upside. Get used to being on your own and then grow very strategically after you are used to the pace/work as a solo.

    5. Just remember that you will be a small business owner with all that entails. My husband had his own firm for years and spent a ton of time on things like billing, personnel, IT, and so on. Not saying this to discourage you, but it’s vitally important to go into it with your eyes wide open about all of that part.

  17. I need some advice about how to mentor a few associates in my group who have young kids. These associates will tell me at 4 on a filing day, oh I need to leave at 5 to pick up my kid from daycare, I can be back online at 9. Our filing deadline is 5. Not even the staff are leaving at 5 on the dot on filing day. Like no you need to be there to oversee and help with admin wrap up stuff like getting service copies to opposing counsel, getting copies to the client, or, if god forbid something goes wrong and we’ve blown our precise deadline, you definitely need to be here. You can’t just walk out and expect the partner to deal with all this stuff. And no it’s not going to wait until you’re back online at 9, the client is waiting, we need to get it to them promptly, and I don’t want to have to keep checking my email after 9 to make sure it gets done. There are lots of legitimate reasons that 5 pm on filing day is not a reasonable time to expect to leave.

    But also, as a professional whose starting salary is greater than the value of my childhood home, I don’t think you should expect to leave at 5 on the dot any day, not just filing day. I’m having trouble articulating WHY this is, but I’ve definitely heard grumblings from other partners. I want to help support them not chastise them. Anyone have a good script?

    1. I think you are correct that leaving at 5 p.m. on filing day is not reasonable. I would give that feedback directly, with all the reasons you describe. I think you are incorrect that you should stay until 5 p.m. “just because”. If you are working nights, weekends, holidays, and everything in between to keep up with client demand, you can arrange your schedule as you see fit. It’s a 24 hour day. Either you’re a professional with good judgement or you’re not. And partners are usually the ones who do this the most (they have to, it’s the only way to survive the insane time demands), they just don’t recognize it in themselves.

      1. To clarify, I’m not suggesting that people should sit in their chairs until 5 pm for no reason. I am suggesting that it’s problematic for the associate to have a strict reason like daycare pickup that requires them to leave at 5 no matter what.

        For example, I try to avoid 5 pm calls but sometimes they happen, or sometimes a 4 pm call runs late. If you MUST be out the door by 5 pm that means you’re running out in the middle of a call or you’re missing the call altogether. Which means you’re out of the loop and not getting experience you need.

        And for very junior associates, they aren’t independent enough to create their own schedule. I guess I’m balking at a first year trying to dictate my schedule. If a 5 pm client call requires follow up research for a 9 am board meeting the next day, I don’t want (1) myself to have to wait until 9 pm to explain the research, (2) the associate to start something at 9 pm that could’ve been started at 5:30 pm, or (3) me or the associate to have to be up at midnight dealing with this when we could’ve been completely finished by 9 pm. If a more senior associate who can work independently wants to work until midnight then more power to them, so long as the quality of the work doesn’t suffer.

        1. The above is where I am struggling. I can’t work crazy hours because someone won’t work at normal working time.

          1. Then you don’t sign up for a job where this is the expectation and you’re being compensated A LOT of money for it.

          3. I don’t think so, but maybe. Asking an associate who is paid more than $200k their first year out of school (!!!!) to find an alternate arrangement for some extremely predictable days feels very reasonable to me. The money is to make sure they can afford to make those alternate arrangements. Or maybe their spouse can pick up the child on those days (you typically have at least 2 weeks notice before a filing will be due).

        3. It sounds like you are complaining about associates having young children. There’s no acceptable script for the message you want to convey.

          1. There are lots of childcare solutions that don’t require you to leave at 5 PM every day on the dot. They’re more expensive but they’re out there. So as a parent in this type of job, you have to know that’s why the salary is so high, you have to make yourself available. And you have to avail yourself of those more expensive daycare arrangements.

          2. No – she is complaining about people making $200K+ straight out of school thinking they can pass their responsibilities off to other people.

            I was not Big Law. I did not make Big Law money and I did not work Big Law hours. That was partly the trade-off I made so that I could be present for my kid. That said, I never left the office until every aspect of a filing I was responsible for was completed and confirmed. I made arrangements for other people to pick my daughter up from day care and stay with her until I got home on those days. The idea that any attorney – and particularly a Big Law attorney – would think they can just take every workday off from 5-9 is astonishing to me.

          3. I think Big Law associates really can’t rely on childcare that ends at 5 pm. When I was in Big Law everyone I knew had a nanny or a daycare that ended no earlier than 6 and the earliest AND a spouse with a less intense job. I left Big Law before having kids, in large part because I didn’t want my kids to be in childcare for that many hours. But I do think it’s basically a job requirement.

          4. I am a GC of a large company and a former Big Law attorney. In all senses, I am a professional success. Rave performance reviews. I also left at 5 pm on the dot every day for several years when my kids were in daycare. Nobody died. The work got done.

            I thank God every day that I worked with true leaders. People with vision and compassion who understood how to get excellent performance without prescriptive rules.

          5. If you are making $200k as the most junior person on a case in an industry where it is very well known that prompt 5pm departures on certain days are problematic, why would you not spend some of that $200k to pay someone to pick up your kids from daycare on time?

        4. I’m a single mom who left biglaw because of people like you. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that there is no hard reason that this filing that was due at 5pm wasn’t completed well before 5pm. I don’t know you or your associate, but I remember multiple times where I, as the senior associate, had a filing ready to go with client sign off by 9am and the partner either refused to look at it until 4:30 or wanted to make silly non-substantive changes until late into the afternoon. I would also remind them about my childcare obligations in the lead up to me leaving when I was checking in to see if I had sign-off. Usually exactly as you said your associate did, “Hey X, do I have sign off to file this? As a reminder, I have to pick up Y at 5pm.”

          I now work at a mid size firm and do not have these problems anymore, though I work with similar clients. My honest opinion is that biglaw partners use the clients as an excuse for their own poor time management. If you are routinely filing things at the last minute, that isn’t client driven, that’s you. And given the unavoidable fact that most women have children, and most women who have children are the primary caregivers, if you decide to operate this way, you are deciding that you do not care if you lose the majority of your senior women as they advance.

    2. Leaving at 5 pm on filing day is very different from leaving at 5 pm other times. Daycares have strict pickups – parents can’t just not get there (that’s not a thing). Don’t come down on anyone for leaving to get their kids on days when it doesn’t matter, especially when they’ve indicated to you that they’ll be coming back online.

      The world has moved on from butt-in-seat at the boss’s demand. You need to adapt too, and maybe that includes talking to the partners about what kind of expectations are reasonable in the modern world. Maybe they’ll add an on-site daycare with a late pick-up if they care enough.

      1. But it’s the back online at 9 that’s the problem. If people left before 5, that is fine but picking up again starting at 9 is not a reasonable wait.

        1. Correct, it’s not reasonable on a filing day – but it is probably reasonable on other days.

          1. It isn’t reasonable routinely though. I can’t be in call at/after 9 every day because someone doesn’t want to hire someone to pick up their kids. You need to pay for far more child care than you need. Otherwise, it will just be senior people doing the work on their time and no junior people will advance. They will get “underperforming” and “not willing to help” reviews and will be gone soon. I feel that being able to be helpful to your bosses and their bosses matters a ton. That’s why you were hired. If you just make more work for them when it’s not preferred, that means that you are the wrong person for this job or you need to adjust via hiring help or being able to swap with a spouse on the fly for something to be viable long term. It’s unavoidable. You couldn’t work at Burger Kind except when it is open vs when it is convenient for you.

          2. It’s okay for jobs or tasks that have flexibility when the work needs to be done.It’s not reasonable to ask others to work your parent split shift (e.g. business hours and then stay up late) to accommodate your work life balance. OP is talking about the latter.

          1. Then don’t work in Big Law. Big Law is paying you to have no personal life. That’s why they’re one of the only industries where you make $200k+ right out of school

          2. That doesn’t give you a pass. You bend to work in any job you want to keep. If you can’t be flexible to be available when the work is there, it will just go to someone else. Public defender? DA? They have this to but without the BigLaw money to throw at your problems.

    3. Agree with the others. Set filing days as a hard butt-in-seat-until-X. Deliver the news with compassion, in advance, and couched in your willingness to be flexible when you can.

      If they know it’s a hard rule, they’ll make sure a partner/sitter/whatever is in place for those days.

        1. The dates must be communicated a few weeks in advance and cannot change at the last minute.

    4. I know clients can interfere with this, but try to have everything done in advance so that it won’t matter if the associates are around at 5. Last second filings create stress for all and lead to mistakes. Sometimes it can’t be helped though — I get it.

      That being said, if you want to drive off associates, be sure to repeat this scenario often so they have to choose between their job and their children.

      1. +1. Everything here. The team should plan better so filings are in by 4:00 pm at the latest (and with how much everyone screws around at work these days, I’m sure there are efficiencies you can make). Otherwise, plan for attrition.

        2. Law firms actually do plan for attrition. It’s viewed as a desirable and normal process.

      2. I’m a pretty harsh taskmaster when it comes to clients/co-counsel and getting things in early. Many times, though, we’re filing simultaneous submissions at the same time as opposing/other parties. I cannot give the other side an entire hour with my brief that I don’t get with theirs; they could make changes to respond to my arguments, and even if they don’t, the client will perceive that we’re giving them an advantage. So there are reasons it must happen at 5 not 4. And like others have said, it’s known well in advance and can and should be planned for.

        I hear what everyone is saying about the non-deadline days though. Maybe I should ask the associates for their ideas? I want them to get client exposure and experience in general, but I don’t want to drive them away in the name of helping them.

        1. Fair that you don’t want to file early to not give an advantage away, but I get the impression you are doing things on the day of filing leading up to pressing submit at 4:59, which only requires one person. My personal rule is a filing basically needs to be done other than submitting it by the time I walk in the day it is due. This avoids stress and mistakes.

          The bottom line here is you can have whatever policies you want. The associates are free to not like those and leave if they don’t like then or they think they’re being treated unreasonably or they think you aren’t being proactive enough to avoid this problem. If you try to turn your problem into their problem, they’ll turn it back into your problem my leaving. That’s why you have a firm — so someone can press the submit button at 4:59 if someone else can’t, for whatever reason.

          1. Yes, but after pressing submit, there are many tasks that need to be done as a follow-up to a filing, as described by the OP, including service copies to other parties and so forth. It’s not just a matter of sending in a filing electronically.

      3. Yes, why on earth are you waiting until the last moment to file? That seems like poor planning and setting yourselves up for errors even if all your staff can stay until midnight.

      4. Have a policy that the filing needs to be 100% ready the day before the filing deadline so that it can get filed while associates are still there. When I first started as a lawyer (before electronic filing), our court run left at 3:30 everyday. Your brief had to be in the basket, signed, and 100% ready to go by then or it didn’t get filed that day. (I guess you could run it to the courthouse yourself but as attorneys we really didn’t know the process, how many copies, etc.)

    5. Everyone’s salary is greater than the value of their childhood home…My childhood home was a 5 BR 3 BA for $80K.

      1. My childhood home sold for $250k in 1994 and sold again for $850k in 2022…..

        It’s a 2,000 sq ft split level in the suburbs of Boston, if you’re wondering.

        1. Also in the 128 suburban loop of Greater Boston, purchased in 1985, parents still live there, if you’re wondering.

          “Childhood” is very time and context dependent.

          1. I read it as the associates make more than the current value of her childhood home, which is a more impressive stat.

      2. Well, these first years are making $225k, which is greater than the current value of the house I grew up in.

        1. I understand they are making a lot of money, but as in house counsel I am struggling with the firms who can’t keep their associates. As soon as they get some experience and knowledge, they bounce. I am considering moving our main law firm because I am so sick of the revolving door of associates. I either get a partner who is way too senior for the work or a brand new associate. So, please keep that in mind when you’re inclined to squeeze them based on income.

        2. Right, and at least in the metrowest of Boston there are plenty of nannies that cost $80-90K annually (low 30s per hour, 50 hours per week). So by most financial rules-of-thumb you are in fact not paying your associates enough for the childcare solutions you want them utilizing, as that would be approximately half of their take home salary.

          1. If you’re making $225k + bonus, you can afford $80k for a nanny. Also most people who need a nanny have a partner that earns income. Even if your partner “only” earns $50k, which is low for a white collar professional, that gives you significantly more wiggle room in the budget.

          2. Yes!!! If you pay someone over the table – which all if us but especially attorneys should! – it is a lot of money to get the necessary coverage. And it is extremely difficult to find someone reliable to work say 20 hours a week from 4-8 or whatever, so you end up paying for full time and day care.

            None of this is a sob story when we are talking about a first year big law associate’s salary (presumably with a spouses’ salary as well) but it is not an insignificant expense. And it also requires being an employer, which has its own headaches. Again, you gotta do it – I did it – but it is not a small thing financially or logistically.

          3. If you’re making 225K plus bonus AND you have 200K in loans because you just graduated, you in fact, CANNOT afford 90K for a nanny. But you can afford to hire a sitter for important work deadline days. That is doable.

      3. I don’t think so.. my Big Law starting salary (~$160k) was less than the value of my childhood home in the LCOL Midwest (~$200k) and $200k is very cheap for a home! My current (nice, spacious) house in a LCOL is worth nearly $700k and my Bay Area friends mostly have homes worth $2M+.

    6. Filing days are known in advance. I’d be really PO’d if an associate just up and left before a filing was finished. Tell the associate that going forward, on all filing days, they have to make other arrangements for child care pickup, period. Alternatively, they must make sure that the filing and all components of it are *completely finished* before they leave.

      1. Different poster but I’ve had associates schedule moves during the week on filing days. I don’t give them work anymore.

    7. I think you tell them that on filing days, they need to be in-office until the filing is completed (or whatever relevant metric there is). I would explain that they are being paid gobs of money to hire a sitter to pick the kids up on filing days.

      As a general matter, many companies have “core hours” and require their employees to note on their calendars and team calendars when they will not be available during core hours. You could adjust this and require that, absent emergencies, all departures before 5:30 pm be noted on your team/personal calendar in advance. It isn’t PTO or anything; people just need to know if you’re OOO at 4 pm.

    8. I think you’re right about filing days, but you need to be more reasonable about leaving for daycare pickup on other days. When I was at a firm, I typically handled daycare pickup, but I would make my husband cover for me if I had a filing deadline. He would also handle drop off if I had a deposition or something else that morning. That was pretty typical for attorneys with children at my firm.

      My daycare had a strict pick-up time of 5:30. It was 15 minutes from my office with no traffic. Averaged 20-25 minutes but could sometimes be 45 minutes away. Because of that, I started leaving before 5 pm to make sure I was there on time. Typically, no one came to talk to me after 4:30 anyway, but a few times, I would run into a partner in the hallway that was surprised I was leaving. My boss at one point asked me why I didn’t find a daycare that closed at 6…. There was only one daycare I could find in the area that had those hours, and the waitlist was forever long. Also, when my boss made that comment to me, DS’s bedtime was between 6:30-7, so the idea of keeping him at daycare longer just seemed insane (and still does). The pressure to be butts in seats until 5 pm or later every day really contributed to my stress and the pressure to leave the firm, even though I never missed a filing deadline and I was taking care of everything else.

      In sum– I think your reaction to not taking ownership of a filing deadline is reasonable. (Maybe suggest they treat 4 pm as the deadline if they really have to leave then.) However, if you don’t rethink accommodations for daycare pickup generally, you are going to lose these attorneys.

      1. This.

        “New policy going forward: any associate on a matter with a filing day must be physically in the office until the filing is filed. Please make needed arrangements for childcare, doctor’s visits, etc, on those days.”

        But if you want to retain junior attorneys with children, you need to bend on the 5 pm departure and 9 pm thing. EVERYONE with children does this – they take the dinner time/bathtime/bedtime hours off and come back on later. Or yes, you really will lose them because plenty of firms see these attorneys’ value.

    9. It doesn’t sound like you have kids, or caretaking responsibilities, or relationships honestly. Kids MUST be picked up from daycare, you can’t just abandon them on the poor daycare workers making peanuts. Also your work straight up isn’t important, no one will die, there will be no societal harm.

      1. I left my firm after I had kids because the clear expectation was that I be working at my desk from 5-8 every evening. Sure, we could come in at 10 AM, but that didn’t help me spend time with my young kids. Sometimes it’s just a lifestyle incompatibility.

        1. I agree and just fundamentally do not understand how first years do not get this. You are getting paid $225k because the firm wants to own the majority of your waking hours. This likely is not compatible with much of a life outside of work for at least 4-6 years. If this is also when you want to have children you either need to hire a LOT of help or have your partner take on childcare. Nobody is saying you can’t have kids and be a lawyer, but they ARE saying that white shoe firms with the highest pay and the highest billable hours probably aren’t for you at that particular stage in your life.

          1. I do think there’s a chunk of younger people saying, they fundamentally don’t want to make that trade ($$$$$ for most of your waking hours) – they want something more like $$$ for half your waking hours. And it’s still an open question how that plays out in the long run – do firms change their staffing and pay structure, does it just take a bunch of turnover to find the junior associates who want to make the $$$$$ trade, etc?

          2. I just wish those people would leave and free up the comp for someone who wants the BigLaw job. It’s fine to want that. But it is fundamentally unfair to your co-workers picking up the slack and someone else might honor the bargain. Just leave. You know where the door is if this is fundamentally not aligned with what you really want.

          3. Then they should take those jobs, Anecdata! They are plentiful. But I really don’t get taking the $$$$$ job knowing the expectation and then thinking they don’t have to do the expected but should still get paid? No one has to take these jobs! And it is very very unusual to make that much money right out of school— of course there will be unusual expectations that come along with it.

      2. obviously the solution isn’t “just don’t pick up your kids”, it’s “make alternate arrangements for pickup” (spouse, family member, pay a nanny, etc). Some job types and schedules don’t work with some personal needs at all, and some only work if you throw a lot of money at the personal needs.

        1. I have a LOT of empathy for working parents but how is this not understood? High paying jobs with long hours don’t work well with childcare needs. It’s not rocket science that you need daycare plus sitters/nannies/family help if you want or need to be working 12-14 hour days.

        2. This. Big Law with kids really only works if you have a nanny or a spouse who’s primary parent. And they pay you so you can outsource lots of childcare and household help.

          I work 9-5 in higher ed now and you better believe I was leaving at 5 pm on the dot to make daycare pickup every day. But the tradeoff is the money. Higher ed is not paying me enough to afford a nanny (nannies in NYC probably make more than I do!), so they have to accept the fact that my life revolves around the daycare schedule. Big Law pays you enough to bend your schedule to their whims, not the other way around.

          2. I think those days are done. 225,000 isn’t some incredible sum that allows you to hire a full-time nanny in addition to daycare – far from it.

          3. Nah, 225k + a bonus in the tens of thousands is still a staggering sum for a 25 year old. Basically no 25 year olds who don’t have a family trust earn that kind of money. And it easily allows you to hire either a nanny or pay for daycare and a part time helper, especially with a partner’s income (and if your partner is a SAHM/SAHD you shouldn’t need a nanny).

          4. You don’t need a nanny; you need daycare and a sitter, or a spouse with a flexible job who doesn’t earn crazy money.

    10. Who is actually doing the filing? I’m assuming there is only one associate on the team and the admin is doing the filing. When I was an associate, I did my own filing so of course I didn’t leave until it was done.

      I’m sympathetic to both sides here. If this person actually felt like they had ownership in the filing, this wouldn’t be an issue. Often whatever is making the filing not ready until 4:45 is also out of their control – that part is often chalked up to “well that’s just associate life” but I think is often indicative of poor planning on the part of others. And whether the client expects the as-filed version to be sent to them at 5:01 is also an expectation management issue from the partner. Sometimes it’s a real expectation and sometimes partners are inventing those client expectations. I also don’t completely understand why the admin needs such handholding on service copies that an attorney should be billing for that.

      On the other, the associate should know when filing days are and want to be part of the filing, and should not be primary or even secondary kid pickup that day. They should know that filing deadline at 5 means that if you file at 4:59, you won’t be done until 6:00. Even in an absolute emergency kid pickup situation, associate should be able to log back on at 6, not 9, and should have someone who is not a partner to cover questions from admin during that hour. I think that’s the message here – this is actual responsibility that the associate should want to take on to progress their career, and to do that they need to have reliable backup care for situations like that. I think I’d approach this as a professional development conversation the first time (here’s what you need to succeed at our firm) and the second time it’s a performance issue (you aren’t meeting the expectations I set out in first convo).

    11. I think if you bring it up daycare, you will get dragged into conversations that distract from the point as has happened here. So don’t mention kids and don’t mention daycare.

      Hold a group meeting to discuss expectations around future filing dates. Explain that the dates will be earmarked far in advance so that people can plan around them, but the expectation is that associates will remain in the office (or home office, whichever) until 6 pm on those days in order to supervise the filings and be available for quick turnaround on last-minute questions or issues. These responsibilities arise from the nature of the work and cannot be substituted with late night work or other proposals. If a specific filing date causes an issue, they should highlight it early and they can work a supporting role on that filing. If they are unable to stay late period, then they cannot fulfill the responsibilities of this kind of client matter and you will reassign work accordingly.

      There are plenty of associates out there. I’ve come across several good candidates in a niche area in the past year, more than we could hire. You don’t need to settle for people who cannot fulfill the responsibilities of the job they are in.

      1. yes, this – don’t mention kids or daycare. mention expectations around filing days.

        [obviously there might sometimes need to be an exception or an emergency that arises, etc.]

        1. Without mentioning daycare, I would give people some sense of what an exception/emergency actually looks like (or you’ll end up in the same situation, where people assume daycare = important enough for an exception), when you really mean something like : “your nanny got sick, your father in laws car broke down when he was on his way, and now you’re the third backup to get the kids”. Give them some kind of guiderail: emergencies don’t happen more than once a year for almost anyone; or emergencies=hospitals and fire; etc

    12. I think you can’t approach this by telling people to just throw money at the childcare problem. Do you have any idea how freaking impossible it is to find high-quality childcare right now, especially in high-cost areas? Things fall through. Kids get sick.

      The days in which your job “owns you” are done – they’re not coming back. Someone here had an excellent post several years ago about how the “WFH bell can’t be unrung” because people have realized the social contract with their jobs has been broken. Jobs have no loyalty to you, the benefits are crap, they expect senseless requirements that don’t take into account the reality of modern life. No one is willing to sacrifice everything for that, not even if the salary is six figures. The onus isn’t just on the associates to get with the program. It’s on the law firms to adapt.

      1. “The days in which your job “owns you” are done – they’re not coming back.”

        LOLOLOLOL. No. Not in Big Law. There are plenty of lifestyle jobs out there, maybe more than before the pandemic. But Big Law is not among them.

      3. There are jobs that don’t own you but they’re not gonna play big law salaries. That’s real life.

      4. The WFH bell can, in fact be un-rung, speaking as the wife of a biglaw partner who is back in office 4-5 days/week, and the manager of an in-house legal team that is expected in-office 3 days/week.

        1. Yeah I’m not in law but I feel like the WFH bell has very much been unrung. Fully remote jobs are really hard to find these days.

    13. When I was in BigLaw I worked with a male lawyer who was married to a doctor and they had small kids, and he was very loud about the fact that he was the one who had to leave for daycare pickup because she was often on a crazy shift. He was brilliant though and could juggle it and was back online very soon after. I can’t imagine a middling associate surviving that kind of absence though. But my friend was also very clear about expectations, it was never a day-of surprise.

      We were in NYC so I think an au pair would not have worked for his living situation (no room for an extra bedroom) — but if you’re almost anywhere else an au pair is the preferred option and you should maybe suggest to HR that they make a connection with an au pair agency or suggest that thing strongly to incoming associates.

      I think the messaging from you needs to be that you need to know immediately if they will not be available so you can choose another associate. and that for filing days and other important days you require them to make other arrangements, like having a babysitter or grandparent pick the kid up from daycare if their spouse is not available.

      My firm also required us to check emails every so often – once an hour maybe? – up to a certain hour — and i think that’s reasonable request. they can’t just turn off their phone because it’s dinner bath bed.

      1. This. I feel that the rockstars make this work but few people pull this off well. Something slips, “things got stuck in my outbox” or whatever. It is irritating to everyone else who was waiting on you.

    14. I am a biglaw equity partner, and I am really surprised at the pushback you are getting here. I say that as someone who is (1 a parent of two young kids, and I almost always log off for dinnertime and (2) generally very flexible and accommodating with my associates. That said, I would absolutely lose my mind if an associate thought they could clock out before a filing was 100% done, barring some unusual circumstances. Being regularly unavailable for filing deadlines when they are known in advance is just not acceptable in our field (not interested in a debate about whether this is right or wrong, it is just a fact). And while I love the suggestions below that filings get done in advance — something I also aspire to do — I have a feeling the people below have never actually worked in a big law firm (or really any litigation position — I worked in government for many years and the feedback to a junior person leaving before a filing was done would have 100% been the same).

      Here, I think it is reasonable to give the feedback that leaving before a filing is done on a filing day is not okay. I would also give the feedback that in our line of work, there are times that working in the 5-9 window just has to happen. I would try to key both of these forms of feedback to a specific incident, rather than discussing them in the abstract. I would also not suggest that leaving at 5 is itself a problem (because it’s not — although I agree with commenters that a 4-hour window of unavailability every day is not realistic, especially at a junior level). Instead, the feedback can be that part of succeeding in our field is being available to take care of key client tasks (like filings!).

      I would use a script along the lines of “Hey Associate A, remember yesterday when we had that MSJ due? And despite the fact that we all worked so hard to get it done by 5, it was not done for reasons outside our control? We all have to be available on those days to do what needs to be done to get it over the finish line. I will always do my best to give you as much notice as possible about when those filings need to happen.” I think you can use the same script about a late-afternoon call that needs immediate follow-up.

  18. LA and NYC (on the subway) are both considering mask bans so people can’t commit crimes and evade responsibility, especially while protesting. What a world we’ve come to. I think this will almost certainly result in a justified accessibility/disability challenge (people who are sick and have nothing to do with protesting are legally allowed to wear masks), but I also very much see why these steps are being pondered.

    1. NYC is not seriously considering this. The governor floated the idea. It will never happen. The subway is not overrun with masked protestors committing crimes.

    2. I don’t see how you could legally ban people with health conditions that make them higher risk from wearing masks on the subway. Clear violation of the ADA. At most I would think you could have a TSA-like checkpoint where people have to briefly remove their mask to verify identity, but the cost of implementing that would be huge.

    3. It’s so dumb. Maybe extra punishment/fines for people who commit crimes while wearing a mask instead?

      Also, I would bet that I, as a middle-aged white woman would not be asked to take off my mask on a NYC subway.

      1. But if the point is that you can’t catch people who are wearing a mask while they commit crimes, what good does that do?

    5. VA has long had a statutory ban on wearing masks, with exceptions for health reasons.

  19. Is black and pink a current color combination, or will it look dated? We’re going to a local c0ckt@il bar’s “frose on the patio” event tomorrow evening. I have wide leg black pants and a silky pink tee I’m thinking I will wear, with rose gold sparkling wingtips.

    1. Personally, I think it’s a bit dated. I think swapping in a white or other light colored pant would look more current.

    2. I tend to think black paired with any bright colour looks dated these days. It looks better with other neutrals.

          1. I honestly think you could do better. Is denim out of the question? How about gray pants? Stone, beige, white?

  20. I know it’s been asked, but search is failing me–what is everyone’s favorite long sleeve sun shirts that are still comfortably cool? For non-water based activity, so not rashguards. Thanks!

    1. The Patagonia capilene cool sun hoodies are the absolute best. I wear them up to 100 degrees comfortably and haven’t gotten a sunburn on my chest/shoulders in three years. I have them in all colors (and normally Patagonia is too slim-cut for me but these are perfect).

      1. I do not like these at all. They feel slimy and are not cool. The Arc’teryx Taema is superior in every way. I have lupus and take my sun protection very seriously!

    5. The absolute thinnest lightest weight is Outdoor Research’s echo (see through in most colors, if you care about that). I really like the comfort of the thicker softer feeling capilene cool and REI house brand though

  21. Talk to me about lab vs mined diamonds. My boyfriend and I are starting the engagement ring process and are very confused on this. What I want is in the budget either way, but it seems silly to spend more on mined when they’re the same thing? But am I missing something?

    Is it a status thing to have a mined diamond? Older relatives are horrified by the idea of lab, but the last time they shopped for diamonds lab grown wasn’t a thing at all.

    1. I think it’s definitely a status thing, thinking a lab diamond isn’t a “real” diamond.

      If you want a mined diamond, look at vintage or antique rings.

      1. +1 to ‘estate’ rings. Our local jeweler is always flush with 1-2 carat trade in diamonds from people who upgraded their rings. Yes, I live in a VHCOL area, but it’s worth checking around to see if your local jewelers have that option too!

        1. You can get a great value from an estate ring too for the diamond price. Check out Era Gems online to see if any of these styles speak to you. (They’re kind of expensive, but have a pretty selection to consider.) The idea is that the labor crimes have already been committed. When I was looking in DC, stores had only a couple vintage rings each, so online seems the way to go to purchase after you identify what style you like.

    2. it’s a status thing. Like you’re getting a better stone than you “deserve” for what you spent.

    3. I mean, you don’t have to tell anyone either way if you don’t want to. I think the difference is all marketing because it’s the exact same substance.

    4. Why would anyone find out the origin of the diamond? I can’t imagine people asking.

    5. chemically, in terms of the atoms and their specific structural arrangement, it’s the same, except perhaps that you can get higher purity for lab grown. Ironically, purity/few inclusions is a notable quality criterion for mined diamonds, but lab grown can get closer to perfect.
      It’s all status. If you remember that diamond engagement rings weren’t a thing until DeBeers came along, and still aren’t for most of the world, it fits the bigger pattern of all these norms being made up.

      1. +1 the cachet of mined diamonds is a triumph of DeBeers marketing, not superior quality. Add in a dash of child slavery and no thanks!

      2. I was actually just reading The Engagements by J. Courtney Sullivan, which looked at this in a fictional setting, and it was completely fascinating.

    6. Literally no one knows. I have a lab grown ring in 18K gold. Why are you talking about this with older relatives? None of my family or friends have asked where the diamonds are from.

    7. Lab diamonds are chemically identical to mined diamonds, and are often more pure
      With a mined diamond you are paying for marketing and human rights violations. Of course lab diamond aren’t morally perfect either and use a lot of electricity to produce, but they aren’t killing people.

    8. The precious stone trade, as everyone is aware, is an industry with serious issues. This issues include child labor and unsafe working conditions. Yes there are certification programs but these are imperfect in the same way that other supply chain certification programs (coffee, chocolate, clothing) are imperfect. Look into the Kimberley Process, which tries to reduce the flow of conflict diamonds into the supply chain – and then see who chairs this process (Russia was recently a rotating chair). Buying estate or vintage you may avoid the modern day issues, but those older diamonds didn’t even have a certification process. Lab diamonds you know are free and clear.

    9. Your relatives do not need to know whether your diamond came from a mine or a lab. The only person who will be able to tell is a jeweler so get the ring you want.

      personally I don’t like supporting the De Beers cartel and child labor and all of that stuff, so to the extent I have any diamonds, they tend to be vintage. I don’t own any lab diamonds, but I do know they are physically and chemically identical to mined diamonds.

    10. Agree wholeheartedly that your relatives have no need whatsoever to be part of this conversation. Also agree that with the ethical issues of the diamond trade, vintage or lab grown is the only way I would go. (My ring is vintage from my late predecessor, but if we were buying a new one now we would certainly go with lab grown.)

      1. There’s no winning that discussion anyway.

        My friend and his fiancée decided on a moissanite engagement ring together. They were together with both sets of parents the night they got engaged and showed them all her ring.

        His very frugal/poor parents said “looks awfully expensive,” but not meant in a good way.

        So to defend himself, he said “it’s not a diamond, it’s moissanite!” And then the fiancées dad said “is my daughter not worth a real diamond?”

        Lesson, keep it to yourself no matter what you do.

    11. Lab grown diamonds turn yellow over time. They take in things like lotions and hand sanitizer. They are also worth nothing the minute after you buy it, so it can’t be traded in for something else.

      2. This is not true about yellowing, lab diamonds are chemically identical to mined diamonds. You might be thinking of alternatives like cubic zirconia. And mined diamonds are never worth anything near what you paid for, either.

    12. my understanding is that there is a big difference between a lab diamond and fakes like moissanite and cubic zirconia — you need to make that clear to relatives. but honestly how will they know unless you get a really badly cut cheap lab diamond?

      1. But why does anyone need to make that clear to anyone else? If a person wants to wear any stone at all, they should be able to do so. You’re never going to change a snobby person’s opinion of you, so why bother?

    13. Only you and your partner need to be involved in making this decision, or in the zillion additional decisions you need to make to actually get married. Don’t set a pattern of crowdsourcing opinions from either family.

      1. Not all mined diamonds are blood diamonds. Some, for example, are mined in Canada

  22. Paging HFB from yesterday: There was/is a delightful old hotel in the center of Boulder whose name I have, temporarily forgotten. When we used to have cause to visit Boulder regularly, I really enjoyed all the city had to offer without a car, including hiking. We used public transport or a car service for the Denver Airport – Boulder travel.

  23. Any Poshmark / Mercari shoppers noticing an increase in prices? Like dramatically so? For example, I’m not paying $40 for a used J.Jill blouse that went for that on sale when it was new.

    1. I feel like I’m noticing more fees or something and I haven’t paid attention to what’s behind that. It used to be I could Expect to pay the price of the item and the shipping, but now my total comes out to higher than two of those added together so there’s some sort of additional charges when you buy.

    2. Yes! It’s annoying. I often will just offer what price I’m willing to pay (which is far less than listed) and it’s often accepted so who knows what is going on.

      1. There are often deals to be had especially when making offers on more than one item. It’s much easier to do up one package vs 5 and less shipping supplies so I take a lot of low ball bundle offers because I’m more focus on making a bit of fun money and rotating my closet vs making lots of money.

    3. People rarely buy at the posted price. I sell most stuff at half of what I post it for. I think more people are figuring that out and pricing to allow for aggressive offers.

    4. I don’t shop Poshmark/Mercari, but I’m noticing it on ebay and kidizen – I think maybe it’s because platforms are increasing their fees? I like to shop second half for environmental reasons, but it is frustrating to see things listed for the same price as new or like a 10% discount. I’d like to shop in person at thrift stores more, but my friends that are most successful doing that go all the time as a sort of hobby and I’m too lazy.

    5. I’ve noticed a lot of people using Poshmark as a way to earn money, so the whole thing is that they buy clothes to resell on Poshmark, hopefully for more than they paid. The original point was that if you bought something final sale and it didn’t fit, or you missed a return window, you could sell it on Poshmark and get some of your money back. Now? People are trying to make a living out of it.

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