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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Skinny Ankle Pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Skinny ankle pants are a staple in my work wardrobe. If you’re in the market for a pair, I can vouch for these, available in navy and black from Loft. They’re machine washable and have just enough stretch to be comfy without getting weirdly baggy in the knees at the end of the day. I like to wear these with a brightly-colored blazer and fun flats for a more casual day in the office.

These pants are $69.50 full price and available in plus sizes 16–26. They’re also available in straight sizes 0–18 — and both size ranges are on currently on sale. Skinny Ankle Pants

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293 Comments

  1. My coronavirus prep includes laying in a supply of books. You’re not gonna mess with my reading time, supply chain disruption!

    1. This is brilliant!
      I typically get books from the local library, instead of buying them (for budget and clutter reasons) and I suppose in the event of this virus hitting my area heavily, it may be possible to see disruptions, slow downs or closures. I suspect that would be an extreme case.
      I’m not sure how to best prep for sick time activities or even just “It’s best not to leave the house right now” activities. OP I appreciate you bringing the subject up as I think it’s a good thing to contemplate. I am not crazy about watching TV all the time.

      1. Thanks for calling it brilliant but it’s probably more using coronavirus to be self-indulgent, we’ll see!

        my hobby is painting and part of me is like, buy a bunch of art supplies! and the other part (the rational side) is like, you’re just using this alleged pandemic as an excuse to get art supplies, I see you, self!

        But if I were to lay in activities I’d go back to the classics: a deck of cards + Hoyle’s rules book, Scrabble, some art supplies or craft kits from the toy store. Embroidery, knitting, etc. Anything you enjoy doing or always wanted to try, now’s the time! or, soon might be the time!

        1. Am I buying baking stuff because my typical blizzard activity is making a cake – yes. I thinks it human nature, if something is scary, find the silver lining :)

        2. I want to love the ebook app but there’s such a long wait for anything I want to read (sometimes up to six months). Is that just because I’m a member of a small town library, or does everyone have this experience?

          1. No, I think the wait is normal. I’m in Seattle and have access to Seattle Public and our County public (one of the biggest in the nation) and access to the next county over too. The wait for Grisham and Patterson best sellers is like 600 people. We may have more copies but the wait is still long. I stalk the websites to try to get the ebook copy as soon as it appears. Usually the hard copies appear first.

          2. Usually, when I hear about a cool book, it’s not immediately available, but I don’t mind waiting for a few weeks. Michelle Obama’s book is the only one with a crazy-long wait. I usually have around 10 books on hold, so they become available roughly at the speed I am reading, give or take.
            I don’t mind too much though, because if I need a new book, I set the app to filter for only available stuff and then I will inevitably find a book that sounds great and start reading it. There are so many books out there!

          3. I live in a small town too. There can be really long waits for the absolute most popular books, like Catch and Kill or Becoming, but most new releases I can get in about a month or two. I always have the maximum number of holds (10) so it seems like something is always becoming available for me, and then as soon as I get that book I place a new hold to replace it. I read about a book a week and haven’t don’t outpace my 10 holds very often.
            Fwiw, someone here said that it is actually easier to get books in small towns because the publishes limit how many copies a library can buy, so our libraries may have the same number of copies as NYC and far fewer users.

    2. Can’t you do e-books? I don’t understand how the supply chain of those could be disrupted.

      1. If the power went out, I wouldn’t be able to access the internet and I wouldn’t want to burn battery time reading books when I could be saving it for making calls.

        1. Why would the power go out? This isn’t a natural disaster. When people say to stockpile things in preparation for a US outbreak, they mean in case there are widespread quarantine orders and we can’t leave our homes to go shopping. I don’t understand how that translates to losing power or internet access. In fact, most of the experts I’ve seen discussing likely scenarios have talked about schools doing “telelearning” days, which requires kids to have access to electronics.

          1. Why would you think the power wouldn’t go out? I’d rather prepare for the possibility (and I’m talking 5 books here, lol) than not. I’m taking my cues from the things mentioned yesterday : flashlights and matches mean the power might go out. So I’m adding books into that. This is less a coronavirus-specific preparedness plan than a general disruption preparedness plan. So, books that I look forward to reading will be in my stash. If something bad happens to my neighborhood (most likely an ice storm given our history) I will be happy to have something nice in my stash.

            Also pandemics affect society in different ways. I would never bet that the power won’t go out since our electric grid nationally is an intertwined system of vulnerable parts. A storm could bring down a power line at any time and if the lineworkers are sick or working in a more heavily hit area … the power could go out.

        2. You could mitigate that by buying portable battery packs and charging them ahead of time, so you can plug devices into those if needed.

          2. If there is a real pandemic, I will NOT be reading books. I will also NOT be worrying about billeing my cleints, who probably wouldn’t even pay us. What I would do is to stock up on food, probably canned stuff, and then make sure I had enough water; or I would go out to spend time with my family. The manageing partner’s brother said that he would snuggle up with me, but I told him that I do not need his scruffy beard anywhere near any part of me. Besides, he has a girlfreind that I hear all the time in his apartement “snuggeling” with him. FOOEY!

      1. Good call. I remember digging my way out during a snowstorm because I ran out of coffee!

    4. Maybe I’ll finally get to The Brothers Karamazov, which has been on my shelf since I bought it in high school…

      1. LOL yes I was thinking about Dostoyevsky! I’ve been about a tenth of the way through Eisenhower’s “Crusade in Europe” for about 10 years… maybe I’ll finally finish it…

    5. I am definitely one of those people who buys books faster than she reads them, and if you’re like me, I will not judge you for using this virus as a justification. Because what’s the worst outcome? Either things get bad and you have books to keep you occupies (just make sure you also have flashlight + batteries, or candles), or it blows over and you still have books! Books to read, books to sell secondhand, books to donate and give to others as gifts. Books are awesome.

    6. I was given 10 skeins of yarn yesterday and I just keep thinking that at least I’ll have something to do if I get stuck inside!

    7. Now this is a good prepper thread!

      I might make sure I have good baking supplies on hand, to bake fun things, not because I’m worried about getting food. I really don’t think we’re going to go all Station 11 here. Which incidentally is a very good book and might be an interesting read in light of current events, but maybe not if you are particularly anxious about the virus.

      2. And if you liked Station Eleven, you may also like:
        – Severence by Ling Ma
        – The Dreamers and The Age of Miracles, both by Karen Thompson Walker
        – Parasites Like Us by Adam Johnson (one of my all-time faves)

        The Dog Stars gets recommended to me often but I haven’t read it yet.

        1. Just finished The Dreamers- it was good although the whole quarantine idea felt a little too real. Dog Stars was wonderful- I don’t generally gravitate towards dystopia and I really enjoyed it.

          1. I read The Dreamers and The Age of Miracles in two bites recently. Very relevant right now…

        2. Good Morning, Midnight is also a great read if you like Station 11! It even has a similar cover, but one of the POVs is the crew on the spaceship that was just wrapping up their study of Jupiter’s moons and beginning the year-long return to Earth when Mission Control went silent… Sort of a cross between The Martian and Station 11.

      4. I tried reading Station Eleven a while ago and had to quit right at the beginning when it looked like a kid was going to be one of the first victims.

      5. Another pandemic-related book is The Seven Days Of Us by Francesca Hornak. I read it at Christmas and it was fantastic. There is a point where you will want to throw it across the room, be warned.

    8. Hah, I’ve already got a huge backlog of both books (physical and e), knitting projects, and cross stitch patterns, so I’m set for MONTHS. My only problem would be if I lost internet and couldn’t access youtube crafting tutorials. :)

    9. I get mine mostly through the Libby app (which lets you access your library’s ebook collection from your phone), but I’ll have to start adding more stuff to the queue. The only book in my holds right now is an audiobook that doesn’t actually come out until April.

  2. Paging Senior Attorney! You said in the comments yesterday you were getting an eyelid nip/tuck. How did it go, and can you elaborate about cost, pain, and final results?
    Have you done this before, and if so, how often do you have to go in for maintenance?

    My eyelids are looking droopy and I’m considering getting something done… but I’m scared!

    1. Ditto this request. I’d also love to hear the factors for local vs. general/twilight local anesthetic.

      I’m 47 and one of my eyelids is more hooded than the other, possibly due to anesthetic decades ago.

    2. Have we ever had a thread on cosmetic procedures? In fact, I’d like to see two threads – one on actual surgery, and another on the more medi-spa type of things. I’d love to know more about why people chose to get them, how much they paid, how they feel about it after the fact, what reactions were (if it was a big thing), etc.

      1. Great idea! I’d love to hear more on teeth whitening. Decades of drinking coffee has taken its toll but everyone I know who has done bleaching says it’s the worst pain they’ve ever felt.

        1. I don’t think the OTC kits are that painful, and they make a big difference for staining. They won’t get you to “whiter than the teeth you were born with,” but that’s not really my goal.

        2. I had to have a crown replaced on a tooth toward the front of my mouth. For my dentist, it’s SOP to do some type of whitening before replacing a crown that is highly visible when you smile, so he had me use the professional version of Crest Whitestrips. They worked REALLY well, and I only had minimal sensitivity, which he anticipated and had me start using a toothpaste for sensitive teeth. This was about two years ago and my teeth are still pretty white despite my love for coffee, tea, and wine. I still use a whitening toothpaste, though, from time to time, to keep up my efforts.

          Just as an FYI — the professional Whitestrips are NOT the ones you can buy at the drugstore or Walmart or Target. You can only get these through your dentist as they contain a professional-grade amount of the whitening product. Also, they “stick” better to your teeth, although from what I’ve been told, the store variety has improved a great deal. You could try the store variety and see how you do with those. I’ve had friends try them and get really good results, but YMMV.

          2. Reminder when you’re already reading an internet forum it’s just as easy to google any term you’re unfamiliar with.

            SOP = standard operating procedure and that’s not jargon, it’s a very common abbreviation among many industries…

          3. Anon at 10:54, that was your takeaway from this detailed helpful post that is directly responsive to the question asked? Sheesh ….

            Standard Operating Procedure, if you really don’t know.

          5. If you all didn’t know, when you google an acronym, you can get back 10 different options, and at least half could fit the context. Don’t be ignorant. Clarity is your friend. No comment on the rest of the post because it was fine.

          6. I did Whitestrips once and had a horrible allergic reaction that made my whole face swell up like a balloon. Who knew that was even a thing???

          7. SOP = Standard Operating Procedure. It is actually pretty common. There’s a lot of things Corporette World that I need to look up simply because I’m not well-versed in legalese. But I do it and don’t complain. In fact. I usually learn something. I guess the complainer learned something today, too.

            And if the person who complained is the same Anon at 11:50, thank you for the “no comment on the rest of the post because it was fine” although I really wasn’t looking for approval. I was just offering up my experience and advice.

          8. My mom din’t have full face swelling like that, but had a lot of swelling and irritation around her mouth from Whitestrips.

        3. Just had my teeth whitened at the dentist – it was $300 – and it took them from slightly yellow to a natural looking white, not a Biden-white smile. In other words, the difference was probably noticeable only to me, but I’m pleased. The only “pain” was that some of the bleaching agent got in my lower lip and I had discomfort in that part of my mouth for a day or two, but nothing that was appreciably worse than, say, biting the inside of your lip by accident. Have not tried the whitestrips.

    3. I went with both my grandfather and my mother when they had this done (not for cosmetic reasons, but because their fields of vision were being obscured, which may have impacted their experiences). Both of them said it was the most painful surgery they’d had (including cateract removals, hysterectomy, C-section, hip replacements and abdominal surgery for colon cancer). Both were covered by Medicare, so I’m not sure about the costs. The swelling and bruising was severe for both, and it took about 2 weeks for it to clear up completely. Both said they’d do it again despite everything – the difference in their sight was very noticeable. I’m dreading it because looking at my eyelids at 42… I’m going to need it!

    4. Thanks for asking! I’m great and it went well!

      Details:

      The procedure was in the doc’s office, under local anesthetic. My hubby was in the room and we all chatted the whole time. I won’t lie, it wasn’t fun. Probably the worst part was when he cauterized the incision because it was both a scary drill-like sound and an awful smell. Ugh. Whole thing took less than an hour. It hurt quite a bit when the anesthetic first wore off but I took one hydrocondone and it knocked it right out. Then Tylenol for the rest of the night and it was fine. If I had it to do over again I’d probably have asked for a Valium or something to take the edge off but it was not much worse than having my teeth scraped at the periodontist.

      This morning there is some bruising and swelling but I don’t look quite as scary as i though I would. Too soon to tell what the results will be.

      Also had Juvederm for nasolabial lines and jowls and OMG SO GREAT ALREADY. It hurt but IT LOOKS AMAZING. There’s a little bruising and swelling but THE LINES ARE GONE. Yes, please. Wish I’d done it before.

      I’m in L.A. and cost was $2,500 for the blepharoplasty and $600 for the juvederm.

      1. This is my third procedure. Had a lower facelift/lower eyelids about 9 years ago. That was general anesthesia although still outpatient. Recovery MUCH MUCH MUCH more complicated but I was fit to attend my son’s Marine Corps boot camp graduation two weeks later. (If I knew then what I know now I’d never have cut it that close — my rule is double whatever recovery time your surgeon tells you.) The worst part about that was looking in the mirror and seeing the moon-faced stranger and wondering whether I would ever look human again.

        Also had tummy tuck about 7 years ago, secondary to a major weight loss. NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART. For that one, still outpatient but I spent the night (two nights? don’t remember) in a surgical recovery center and that was a very good decision. I took a full month off work for that and was very glad I did although I could have gone back after three weeks (doc said two but that would have been pushing it).

        For those of you in L.A., I use Dr. Martin O’Toole in Pasadena and love him and his staff.

        1. Oh, and je ne regrette rien. Very happy with everything I’ve had done although I must admit that in my head I am not at alL That Woman who has multiple procedures so it surprises me to be a three-time veteran of the Cosmetic Surgery Wars. And whenever I go to Beverly Hills or someplace where the women all look what my surgeon calls “operated on,” I quietly tell myself I have the best surgery in the room because you can’t tell I’ve had any.

      2. Oh, and to be clear it was an upper blepharoplasty and I’m taking off work the rest of this week and all next week. Stitches come out next Wednesday, which will be a week after surgery.

  3. When people talk about wanting a workflow tool, what does that mean? I always thought it was some type of project tracker that you have to update as various parts of the project progress, that surfaces the project status details in a useful way, and that simplifies life because you can look at the tool and see where things stand.

    My boss is constantly wanting to try sparkly new workflow solutions, when we can barely keep up with using the ones we have. It is exhausting to constantly maintain project status in multiple tools and to try to keep straight which tool which colleague uses (or doesn’t…) for which project. We hold multiple hours-long, all-staff meetings just to update all of our workflow tools. We don’t actually discuss our work on the projects during the meetings. I feel as though my boss is missing the whole point of a workflow tool.

    1. At my company, we use a workflow engine for approvals. This includes, AP invoices, purchase orders, capital expenses, etc. The workflow is sometimes a pain to set up (and manage the hierarchies) but it’s extremely efficient overall.

    2. It sounds like this is a vent/rant about your boss posed as a question about workflows? I’m sorry your boss is being difficult to work with.

    3. I have the same problem. We have to provide project updates in about 50 different places. Our team meetings usually consist of just sitting around watching each other do their updates.

      1. Our team sits around with everyone else discussing changes to one person to input in multiple locations on a tiny laptop screen. Its crazy.

    4. Workflow management and project management are not the same thing. With either one, technological tools are useless without a good underlying process.

      1. That’s our problem. The underlying process is fine, we just need time to DO it. Instead, we are updating the same status in a dozen different places and don’t have time to do the work.

  4. I just found out that Laura Mercier changed the formula of their tinted moisturizer and it is NOT the same!! The color and texture are very different. Has anyone noticed?? More importantly, what is a viable alternative?? I’ve tried a number of other options (Nars, Dr. Jarr, etc.) and I’ve never found one I liked as much – help!

    2. I like the Pur tinted moisturizer. The shade range is… limited, I think there’s 5 or 6 shades. The Light shade is a little too orange and dark for me, but i mix it with some of really light concealer and it ends up pretty close.

    3. Bare Minerals Complexion Rescue might work. I liked it better than the Nars BB and it doesn’t accentuate my pores.

      1. I found the Bare Minerals to be so light as to just blend into my face with little to no change. I think it’s only for if you have relatively perfect skin and just want to even out the tone or color a smidge.

    4. I always liked LM (and didn’t know they changed the formula) but currently use Purlisse BB Tinted Moisturizer Cream (you can get on Amazon, though I found thru birchbox) and really like it. Very similar to LM but better staying power in my experience.

    6. Does it have the same amount of coverage? But it always did get orange. I really liked that it was thick.

    7. I’m usually a Sephora shopper but got stuck using Garnier BB cream on a vacation and have never looked back. My skin looks better than ever. (I use the normal not anti-aging—that one has a weird odar. Regular version has no scent.)

  5. New Yorkers – best way to get from Penn Station to JFK on a Friday evening (~7:30)? Debating between Lyft or Uber, and LIRR + Airtrain. I say Penn Station specifically because we’ll be getting in by Amtrak — a spectacularly lower airfare and better itinerary resulted in the willingness to take the train up when normally we fly from PHL.

    Considerations – traffic, cost (there’s two of us so the total for the trains would be around $36? how much more than that does a rideshare typically run?), annoyance of lugging bags on and off multiple modes of transportation (it’s a long trip so we’ll have a checked bag in addition to carryons), annoyance of actually finding the correct Lyft or Uber (would we need to walk a block or so away from Penn Station to get it)?

    1. If you don’t want to take LIRR + Airtrain, just take a yellow cab. They’re lined up in front of Penn and it is a flat fare to JFK from Manhattan. Uber/Lyft are less convenient in that area and the price will probably be the same or higher.

      1. My experience is not this–it’s a flat fare FROM the airport to Manhattan, not the other way round.

        1. That’s wrong. There’s a toll from the city to the airport (depending on route but pretty common since most cabs will take the midtown tunnel) but the fare itself is fixed.

    3. It depends on how much time you have between arriving at Penn Station and needing to be at JFK. I’ve been burned before re Friday night traffic, so if you’re in a time crunch, I would take the trains.

    6. You’re already at Penn so I’d do LIRR + Airtran. Much easier/predicable than traffic getting out of Manhattan. Taxis are a flat rate but it’s much more expensive than the train and rideshares will vary on pricing.

    8. Leaving the Manhattan on a Friday night is misery by taxi. Take the train since you will already be at the train station.

    9. LIRR + airtrain
      Buy a metro card at Penn Station – you’ll need it to enter the airtrain and there are always lines at the kiosks at the entry to the airtrain
      Will be cheaper and faster. the hassle of getting out of Pen Station and into a cab with your luggage will be about the same as boarding the train

    10. Yet another vote for the train for significant time savings. You can minimize the lugging: Exit a rear car of your Amtrak train, go up only one flight to the LIRR ticket kiosks on the Eighth Ave. side of Penn Station, and then right back down one flight to the LIRR trains. At Jamaica, it’s just one flight up to the Airtrain turnstiles.

  6. Is being in your late 40s like being a kid? Busy life, working FT with kids, and I feel like I got up a size in bottoms at least annually. Still flat-chested. Not liking this one bit.

    [It is maybe akin to puberty where your body is driven to change by forces larger than willpower and while it didn’t bother me that I went from being a size 14 girl to a size 4 woman, I am just horrified now and packing up the closet of decades of my former clothing life and slowly buying new pieces (after 2017-2018’s new pieces).]

    If I came into a bit of $ or didn’t have college*2 on the horizon, would consider going to 80% just to have time to go to the gym. My vanity is taking a beating.

      1. +1. I work very hard, and work out ,but I often eat on the run and probably to much, so that is why my tuchus is out of control. Dad says I need to find a man to marry me now, and that is causing me even more stress; which means more eating and more tuchus. And I am not even 40 yet, so I am sure that once I cross that bridge, I will be having more tuchus issues then ever! FOOEY!

        1. Yeah, I’ll repeat my advice from earlier this week to probably the same person: Go eat a muffin. You’ll feel better.

    3. Same, except I’m only 35. It was crazy to me how fast the weight started coming on in my mid-30s, with no changes to my lifestyle. The only thing that has worked for me is intermittent fasting, and even that has just stopped the weight gain, I haven’t managed to lose any of it yet. Bleh.

      1. This. Age 39 and I’ve noticed a huge slow down of my metabolism compared to 10 years ago. Feeling better on IF but weight doesn’t come off unless I really crack down on my diet and I can’t be bothered.

    4. I went through this and am on the other side. I went up a half size in shoes and two sizes in everything else, and the overall shape of my body changed. I ended up running an eBay store to sell everything. However, now I don’t have hormonal ups and downs and don’t have weird cravings every month and everything seems stable.

      1. Seriously with the eBay store. It will either be that or Poshmark, countered by the fact that one of my kids is my height (but 30 pounds lighter) and is able to wear a lot of my Athleisure / casual wear that I can’t fit into any longer (and isn’t yet at the age where she’s too cool for hand-me-downs).

        I may purge vs store too-small items. For selling, Poshmark seemed to sic weird buyer questions wanting to go offline on me so maybe eBay is better? IDK — would welcome advice there.

      2. Yeah, I gained probably 8-10 lbs between my late 30s and 50s. It sucks, and finding pants really sucked – the size I needed, it was starting to get to the point where for the pants to fit around my waist, the rise was too high. However, at my recent yearly exam I found out that managed to lose about 6-8lbs in 2019. I think it was a combination of exercise and “diet.” I upped the intensity of my exercise (do an Orange Theory cross-training type of thing 2 days a week, and a vigorous dance class 1-2 times per week) and I do think that helped a lot.

        I put diet in quotes because I pretty much eat the same things but 1) tried really hard to stop the mindless afternoon snacking at work, which I never did to excess, but I tried to be a lot more vigilant and 2) cut back on alcohol. I’m still allowed to have a drink or two on the weekends and if I go out during the week, but I try not to drink at home Monday-Thursday. And to be sure, I really never have more than 2 drinks in an evening, and often just 1.

    5. Not sure what country you are from, but in the US, CDC pamphlets claim that “More than 30 million people in the United States have diabetes, and 1 in 4 of them don’t know they have it. More than 84 million US adults—1 in 3—have prediabetes, and 90% of them don’t know they have it.” I know the risk goes up in our mid-40s.

    6. I mean, yes, after I had kids I had to buy bigger sizes. Then I worked out and dieted like a fiend and got back to my pre pregnancy size, and my pre pregnancy clothing still didn’t fit. All my junk is just in different places now.

      I don’t even want to tell you about menopause.

      1. +1

        I’m in perimenopause here. The weight gain and shape changes are impressive. I have been slender my whole life, and without the intention of weight modification …never ate breakfast and never snacked after dinner… so am I lifelong intermittent faster. But I always ate anything I wanted, and was not a perfect eater by any means.

        But in perimenopause, my sleep is screwed up after sleeping perfectly my whole life, my mood is a mess for no clear reason, and I binge eat for the first time in my life. I am the first to admit it is completely my fault with bad food (snack) choices and eating larger portion size for unclear reasons. I am not hungry. My exercise is rock stable. These hormonal changes are rougher than I expected.

        1. Yes, why am I eating more? Lower progesterone, I think. I may start supplementing.

    7. I also wanted to add- I used to work retail and the women’s clothing departments were called Juniors, Misses, Maternity, and Women’s. The proportions were different.

      Women’s wasn’t necessarily what we think of as plus size today. It was just cut for a more “womanly” bust and not as nipped in of a waist. The sizes went larger than Misses as well.

      You can see the same in old sewing patterns. So people were overall smaller than today, but there was always an expectation that your measurements would change as you went from a teenager to a young unmarried woman to a married older woman.

      1. I was going to say…I never had children, but at the same weight, I noticed I didn’t fit into the same clothing post 35 as I did pre 35. But I did go off birth control pills in that time, so…

        Since then, I did gain and lose and gain weight again…and now at the door of 40, I see that I want to eat more than ever, I am more tired, my weight keeps rising. Being short and bottom heavy, I look terrible in pants if I am over 110 lbs, but here I am at 120 and counting…

  7. I’m spending a week in Cary NC (in Raleigh area) with friends, and would love any recs about cool stuff to do and eat relatively nearby. Some things I like include pie, ice cream, bbq, cocktails, craft beer…or anything local and special. Thanks! :)

    1. My hometown! I haven’t lived there in 20 years but based on my visits home, I can tell you downtown Cary has seen a makeover in the past decade with a lot of fun restaurants and shops to check out. FRESH ice cream is delicious, the Mayton Inn is great for cocktails (not sure about their restaurant), and Ashworth’s Drug Store is worth a visit for lunch. For anything super high-end, go to The Umstead (spa, dinner, drinks….so good, so expensive). There are lots of breweries in Cary and surrounding towns (Apex, Fuquay) but I don’t drink beer so can’t recommend any, except Aviator in Fuquay is fun even for non-beer drinkers. I’m also behind on the latest good bbq. Depending on the weather, I love hiking in Umstead park. There’s definitely not a week’s worth of stuff to do in Cary, so plan to explore Raleigh / Durham / CH a bit, too.

    2. Raleigh person here. Agree with Fresh ice cream recommendation above. For craft beer in Cary, Bond Brothers is a must. In Raleigh, Trophy, Burial, Raleigh Brewing, Crank Arm, Big Boss are some of my favs. Pie at Elmos in Durham. The NC museum has an awesome outdoor space if the weather is nice. BBQ at Olde Time. La Farm bakery is a popular spot, get the white chocolate baguette. I enjoy taking out of towners to our state farmers market. I’d spend some time in downtown Raleigh or Durham. There are a lot of bakeries and coffee shops too, yellow dog, boulted, sweet ainsette.

  8. I’m 31 and have long loose-ish ringlet curl hair. I’ve been having issues with it being a little dry and having some breakage issues recently, and I’m not totally sure what to do about it. My mom is black and has similar issues but her hair is also a different texture than mine for the most part. I’m not sure if I should just start using ethnic hair products or what to do about this. I’m pretty sure the dryness and breakage are environmentally induced rather than reflective of a health thing or whatever. these have always been more issues for me than other people, just not as much as my mom and not as much as now.

    Help?

    1. What is your current hair routine? If you shampoo daily with a mainstream product, you might want to consider swapping it for something more gentle or swapping to every other day. If you aren’t using a leave-in conditioner or deep conditioning every now and then, you could add those to your routine. If you’ve never investigated the curly girl method, you could dip a toe in those waters but I find it a bit overwhelming.

    2. I have curly hair that has gotten progressively drier over the years.

      I currently wash it 3 times per week using about a quarter sized amount of Deva Curl’s NoPoo. I noticed a huge difference when I stopped using products with sulfates. I also use excessive amounts of conditioner. My hair is thick and a few inches past my shoulders, and I’ve been working on the same bottle of shampoo since November. Contrast to my conditioner, which I go through a big bottle every 2 weeks. I use the Tressame conditioner with a coconut on the bottle. I use a handful of it every time I wet my hair, whether or not I use the NoPoo. I put that on at the beginning of my shower and let it sit in my hair (clip it up while doing the rest of the shower) and rinse last thing before I get out. I don’t use a leave in conditioner because I haven’t found one that I like, but a lot of people do like those. If I don’t wet my hair that day, I have an oil from Kerastase that I use. I can apply it up to my roots, and my hair never looks oily, but start with a smaller amount closer to the ends of your hair to test out.

    3. naturallycurly dot com is a good place for you to visit. There is advice for slightly wavy to zig zag pattern 4c texture.
      I have curly hair as well and what helped me was doing a once a month betonite clay mask to strip layers of product and whatever else might be on/in my strands (the Aztec clay brand plus any brand apple cider vinegar, mixed together (no metal)), deep conditioning at least once a week, avoiding silicones and sulfates, and using the L.O.C. method to retain moisture.
      My hair has never been softer or healthier and I have lightened it extensively.

    4. Your hair sounds fairly similar to mine. I cannot recommend Mixed Chicks leave in enough.

      1. The Mixed Chicks deep conditioner is one of my holy grails. Also the Mielle Organics Babassu deep conditioner is the best one I’ve ever used, and a little goes a long way.

    5. Have you tried getting a trim? I’ve discovered that when my curly hair (ringlets, shoulder length) gets dry and unruly at this time of year it is really helped by getting 1/2 inch of dead ends trimmed off. It doesn’t sound like much but it totally revives the texture and quality of the curls.

    6. I have tried all the curly products and found them all to be too heavy, even though my hair sounds very similar to yours. My hair is apparently fine but good and curly (3B). I had a lot of luck with the Aveda scalp benefits line of shampoo + conditioner (shampoo once a week generally) and their Smooth Infusion Nourishing Styling Cream. If the other products recommended are too heavy/make your roots greasy (my problem) try that. But as an aside- it will likely take many tries with many products to find the perfect fit. I have a graveyard of curly hair products that ended up not working for me.

  9. I have a question for the lawyers here. I’ve followed the threads about working hours/sick time/PTO with interest, particularly the ones where a lot of people say “you get paid so much in law because the expectation is 24/7 availability.” Is that really true or is it that you get paid so much because no one would go to law school and go six figures into debt if there weren’t high-paying jobs waiting on the other side? I almost wonder if the availability expectations aren’t the real reason for the high salaries, but it’s really convenient for leadership that so many young lawyers take it to heart and that technology has enabled it. Weren’t salaries commensurately high 20 years ago before smartphones and widespread connectivity existed?

    Just to be clear, I do recognize that big law is not 9-5, but there’s a difference between “not 9-5” and “your job owns you, including nights, weekends, and vacations.” I promise I’m not trying to start a sh*tstorm, but I’m genuinely curious about how we should handle norms and expectations in the workplace, especially in jobs with high time demands (not just in law).

    1. I think the availability expectations have increased but not substantially. There have always been cancelled vacations, late evenings and weekend work. I remember my Dad getting stuff faxed to the hotel to work on matters during vacations in the early 1990s. And that was at a midlaw firm. He worked 8-6 during the week, the occasional evening (or frequent evenings during trial) and 6am-noon every Sunday (mom took us to church). Two weeks vacation a year max and he hardly ever took a sick day. I can imagine in BigLaw it would have been more than that.

      1. I remember an older partner telling me that he missed the births of both of his kids because he was at trial in the 70s. He met one kid at 4 weeks old and the other at 6 weeks–after trial was over.

        2. At least for women, if we are married and have kids, we must have time off to have the baby, and then some leave time. The manageing partner said if I have a baby, he would make sure I had whatever leave time NYC allows, and then 2 more weeks, though he said I would have to work from home during this time.

    2. No, salaries were not commensurately high 20 years ago. Salaries are not uniform across the legal field. I make perfectly good money in a regional firm and take nights, weekends, and vacations. If I moved to big law I’d come close to doubling my salary and you better believe the expectations for availability are drastically different.

      BigLaw is a tiny slice of life over represented and discussed here. Most lawyers don’t work in BigLaw and don’t have those expectations.

      We’ve seen a constant drone of posts here, all of which sound like they were written by you, about this issue. The answer hasn’t changed. In BigLaw, especially as a junior associate, you’re not entitled to visit your family for three weeks or go off grid camping for two weeks or refuse to do any work on a weekend because you have a b@chelore11e Party. That’s not the job you chose or what you are paid to do.

      1. Why is the assumption that it is the same person writing it? I can tell you that I have made one or two of these same kind of posts. It’s not just one person, our generation is struggling with the antiquated and unsustainable expectations in Biglaw and starting to no longer accept them. The answer may not have changed yet, but it will once individuals with perspectives like this one have retired.

        1. ? There will always be someone willing to be available 24/7 for 200K a year. If that’s not you, don’t take the job.

        2. The expectations might be tough, but that is what they are. Re-confirming here multiple times over will not change the answer from this board. If you want to change the expectations then start with your firm.

      2. I’m sorry you’re so bitter, but you’re not that good at forensic comment analysis that you can tell if these were the same person. If you don’t want to engage in the subject, scroll on by.

    3. The hours expectation in Biglaw were often higher than lower-paid firms, even when overall billables were lower. The vibe was different though, I think – partners at my old firm were always talking about how they came in on Saturdays/Sundays when they were associates just in case a fax came in with something that needed to be done. So they might work less than associates do now, but proportionately more than non biglaw attorneys at the same time.

      I left big law and now work for a different clientele that doesn’t have the same responsiveness requirements (and for my litigation colleagues, don’t have the budget for massive doc review, tons of depositions, etc.). My salary has gone down but my hourly wage has effectively remained consistent (I bill less hours and get paid about the same amount less).

      1. Forgot to mention, though, that I know tons of people who unfortunately still bill a good amount for more mediocre salaries, depending on the field – insurance defense work, for example, is lower rate, so my friends in that field get paid less.

    4. I think it can vary a LOT by practice area even in BigLaw. My friends at CWT routinely go to work on Tuesday and come home on Wednesday.

      My practice supports people who works like that (at another firm), so when they need something, they truly do need it and I need to work them in even if I am in Tahiti (the rationale being: you are at least in Tahiti; you didn’t have to cancel, you just needed to bring your computer and make sure there is internet and if not, then you need to book it to the next nearest office or get home).

      I think that they do pay you the $ because they have a call option on your time 24/7 (not used a lot in my case, but used).

    5. I am a litigator and feel that I am well-compensated because my job is (a) very stressful (constant fighting, high-stakes situations, etc) and (b) pretty darn hard — requires a bunch of different skills that I have had to develop over the years — excellent writing and research, strategic thinking, organization, public speaking, extreme attention to detail, remaining calm under pressure, judgment, relationship management.

    6. It’s not about young lawyers enabling it. Both young and old lawyers are expected to be available 24/7.

      The most senior partner at our firm took a depo only 2 days after shoulder surgery and while on pain killers because it was expected by the client and the other side wouldn’t let us postpone. His flight to the depo location was excruciatingly painful because his arm kept getting bumped. Plenty of partners cancel or work all of their vacations. They expect associates to do the same.

      1. I was a junior litigation associate at a big law firm in NYC when I first graduated. I routinely worked from 9AM-ish to 1AM-ish when we were gearing up for / in trial. I had a team of two to three paralegals (there was, unsurprisingly, a decent amount of turnover), and one thing that stands out to me was a weekend where Para B was my ‘on call’ para for Sunday, while Para A was ‘on call’ for Saturday… so A and I worked most of the day on Saturday, and on Saturday night, and into Sunday, I was unable to get ahold of B. I had to call Para A back in for Sunday. Senior Associate and Junior Partner both chewed out Para B over email; on Monday she reported that she was in the hospital over the weekend (I think it was just heatstroke). Needless to say, I was in the office working all of those times. It wasn’t atypical, except for Para B being unreachable.

    7. With the caveat that I didn’t stay to make partner (but was a highly-regarded associate), 24/7 is an exaggeration. I took off 8-10 hours every night from checking email to rest and sleep. People could reach me in an emergency with a phone call, and that only happened once. That said, night/weekend work is definitely the norm.
      Vacations might be the exception (because it sucks to not be able to fully disconnect on vacation) but otherwise I actually think technology has made Big Law life a lot more tolerable. Before technology, associates would have to work 8 am to midnight in an office. Now they can work 9 am to 6 pm in an office, and be working at home in their pajamas or even just monitoring email the rest of the time.

    8. For whatever its worth, don’t mix up private school with public law school, and don’t mix up big law with law in general. There are a lot of perfectly good state university law schools that won’t kill you with debt (you’ll likely still have it, but it will be more manageable), and there are a lot of lawyer jobs that pay a decent (or sometimes less than decent) wage and require something more akin to 45-50 hours a week. I’m 10 years out, and have never been in a job where weekends or late evenings were more than a rare requirement.

      Big law is definitely over-emphasized, but it’s not the whole world of law.

      1. I could have written this word for word. I have good work/life balance though I need to be diligent about my boundaries. I rarely have to work at all on vacation. I make less than many people on this board but I still hit six figures most years. My bonus is based on my receivables so I get paid more when I work more. I’m happy. I went to state school and paid my loans off in 5 years.

      2. +100 also to answer the question on availability, I have this conversation with older partners all the time and there are trade offs. They didn’t have the same “reachability” 20 years ago but they were expected to be in the office a LOT more and basically had to sit around and wait for someone to dismiss them for the evening/weekend. Many firms actually had a person whose job was to call associates home phones to make sure they were awake in the morning and coming into the office. I think it’s worse now but technology means that I can go out to dinner with friends while waiting for a document to come in and then turn it in my PJs later rather than being stuck at my desk waiting for the senior partner to drop off comments in person on his way out the door at 9:00 and then still have to work all night to turn the document despite sitting idly at my desk from 4-9

    9. A few thoughts:
      1. Salaries in Biglaw have way outpaced inflation. In the last 15 years, a first year associate salary in a major market has gone from like $125k to nearly $200k. Some of this is availability expectations but a decent chunk is firm egos and competition. Once one firm raises salaries, everyone else follows lest they be “less than.” Combine these salaries with the ready availability of low interest loans and it’s no surprise that the ROI is attractive.

      2. Law school is not particularly good at training people to be lawyers. Especially lawyers that aren’t litigators. A junior transactional associate knows precious little about how to actually get a deal done. Hence their primary asset is availability and being a quick study. And when you’re being paid $200k a year as a glorified intern you’d better be grateful for the experience, not whining about work life balance when you get stuck in the office last minute.

      3. The rates the firms charge out are correspondingly high. So clients expect excellent and responsive work. This drives last minute pressure that is hard to escape.

      4. When you have a billable hours goal, taking PTO just means you have to make up those hours somewhere else. A vacation means you’re making several other weeks relatively more stressful.

      5. The saying about firm life being a pie eating contest where the prize is more pie? Yep. The more well regarded you are, the more people want to give you work. And more work means better client facing opportunities and bigger bonuses.

      I think the frustration that more experienced people are having is that many junior associates think they are entitled to the monstrous salaries without the corresponding trade offs.

      1. “3. The rates the firms charge out are correspondingly high. So clients expect excellent and responsive work. This drives last minute pressure that is hard to escape.”

        This is it for me. Our practice group head bills at $1,500/hr. Darn skippy the clients want to reach him whenever they darn well please. And ish rolls down hill, so…

        1. Right? I’ve paid off my (federal, not private) loans at 8% and just have the 6% left. Almost done…

    10. You don’t get paid a lot of money just because you spent a lot of money going to school. If that were the case every Classical History PhD would be raking in the dough. Lawyers in biglaw can command high salaries because their firms bill out their services at high rates. Companies or individuals paying high rates generally want high speed and high quality service, which means working a lot of hours largely at the whim of your various clients who often have conflicting deadlines but who all want to feel like they’re your only client.

      1. PhDs don’t pay to go to school – you normally either have a research assistantship (working for a prof) or a teaching assistantship (teaching undergrads) or a mix of both. Stipends can be barely enough to live on, especially in the humanities, but at least you’re not paying tends of thousands of dollars in tuition.

        1. That totally depends on the PhD. Some are paid others aren’t. Don’t speak in absolute terms. For example, I don’t know a single person who has their PhD in social work or education that didn’t pay for it – but those programs are shorter duration and for working professionals, not career academics (or wannabe career academics, poor souls can’t find tenure hardly anywhere now).

      2. Yes, also, VERY FEW lawyers make biglaw money. It’s a very small slice of the market. The median starting salary for a lawyer is sub $70k.

    11. Technology has sped everything up. I used to get a letter from opposing counsel and have a few days to respond to it. Now it’s an email and a threat to run to court if we don’t respond immediately. Recently, I told opposing counsel my client was shut down for year end and I could not get a response from them, and they went ahead and ran to court and got a schedule set where we had to make a big filing two days after the client site reopened. There is just no break.

      Judges could put a kibosh on this, but they don’t, thinking that lawyers in big firms somehow have infinite resources to devote to each matter, and that our corporate clients can somehow just push a button and immediately locate all the witnesses for a complex project they worked on years ago, or magically find all the relevant documents.

      In addition, our clients have gotten more demanding. I used to get a break on the weekends but now have client email 24/7. It’s often in house counsel asking for things on really short deadlines because their business team now expects immediate responses.

    12. I would say 24/7 *availability* is expected in some sense, but you’re not actually *working* 24/7. For example, if a brief is due tomorrow, you may well be at the office until 4 a.m. (as my BigLaw partner husband was this week) if that’s what’s required to finish it and get it into perfect shape. In my private practice days, for certain filings, we had a five-day response time. If the pleading we were responding to was filed on a Thursday (as they always were), that meant working as many hours on Saturday as were needed to get the response together.

      So, I would say that working nights and weekends is the exception rather than the rule. The difference between BigLaw and other jobs is that, if night/weekend work is required, it’s expected that you just do it. “It’s after six, I’m not at my desk,” isn’t really an excuse for not doing something that needs to be done.

      1. I think the availability requirement also stems from the fact that being a lawyer = being in client services. And due to the nature of billing for time and every individual has hours expectations that they need to meet while partners/senior lawyers need to keep costs down so they keep the client, that you, as an associate are not really cross trained to work with very many clients. This results in a lot of clients (IME) that rely on, say, Sally to do X (this is more of an issue when you are more senior, and not necessarily a first year associate).

        You can say, “Well, Nancy can also do X” and the client can go, “Who the heck is Nancy? Sally does my work, I need Sally.” The reason Nancy hasn’t been introduced to the client/working with that client is that it doesn’t make a lot of fiscal sense to train both Nancy and Sally to do this work – the client is going to wonder why 2 attorneys are doing the work of 1 attorney.

        Someone else might be able to better explain this than me. That’s also not really an issue limited to BigLaw.

    13. I’m a senior associate in a litigation / white collar practice. When its slow I’m in the office 9-7pm. Partners/clients expect me to respond to emails sent before 11pm and to start responding again around 7am or so. I take work home most nights when its busy and often work until 11pm or 12 after maybe an hour break to commute home, grab some food, cuddle the dog. I personally hate working on the weekends so I do everything I can to avoid that but I still typically work for 2-3 hours most weekends. I probably get 1 weekend a month completely off. I reschedule a lot of doctor’s appointments because of work travel and or client meetings that can’t be moved. I’ve never consistently been able to figure out how to go to the gym or have any type of recurring appointment. I think I’m pretty typical of associates at my firm at my level of seniority / practice area. I generally am able to take vacations, but I do typically work while on vacation. I consider it a victory when its less than an hour every day responding to email. I’ve never canceled a vacation but I did work all day everyday for 5 out of 7 days of vacation so perhaps I should have cancelled that one.

    14. Posting late, but just chiming in that Biglaw associates in non-US firms in the UK, HK, Korea, Japan, etc., work commensurate (and sometimes longer) hours as US biglaw and are paid a lot less. So maybe there is something to the relationship between high cost of tuition.

  10. MZ Wallace is not one of the chosen bags to be discussed around here, but I hope someone can answer this. I’ve had a classic nylon quilted bag for over a year or so. It’s bi-color, with the top and the handle being beige, I consulted the website about cleaning it and followed instructions, hand-cleaning with Dawn and a brush. it’s not sufficient. I can’t stand how dirty the handles get. Unless someone talks me down, I’m going to remove the strap and run it through the washing machine this weekend. There’s a bit of leather on the purse part that won’t be removed with the strap.

    Any ideas?

      1. There is nothing ridiculous about this. Are you the same person who called a completely normal person “melodramatic” in an above post? This poster is clearly asking about a bag that is outside the norm of the Lo and Sons, Cuyana, Dagne Dover parade of usuals that are discussed here. She’s just saying that MZ Wallace is not a bag we often discuss here.

        Please consider what problem you have that is causing you to lash out at perfectly reasonable and innocent people.

      1. Thanks for taking my ridiculous question seriously, Anonymous at 9:49. Very gracious of you.

          1. There’s nothing ridiculous about her phrasing. There are 5-10 brands of bags we discuss here almost daily. MZ Wallace is not one. You don’t get to choose the words she uses. You do get to choose to be a nicer person, which I highly suggest.

          3. Seriously, who cares? If you post something borderline snarky or cliquey about what is “in” on this site and what isn’t, expect to get comments on it.

          4. How on earth is she cliquey for asking for advice on a bag that SHE HERSELF OWNS? To quote you, “seriously, who cares?” There is nothing remotely snarky or cliquey about her post. She asked for advice on how to clean her bag. Why are you so hateful?

    3. Given the leather components, I would take it to a dry cleaner before resorting to the washing machine.

    4. I would had wash it in the sink with some laundry soap and oxyclean using a toothbrush to scrub.

    5. I wouldn’t even know the name “MZ Wallace” if not for this blog so idk why you think it’s not “chosen.”

      2. I read this blog almost every day and have never heard of it. Why are you fixated on her use of the word “chosen”– you’re clearly the initial critical poster. Why are you so angry about this?

        1. I’m not the initial critical poster – I’m sure Kat could verify that if it matters to you. It just seemed like weird phrasing in the original post and there are definitely plenty of posts about the bags that OP could look at.

      3. Yeah, I’ve seen that name mentioned here a lot. Anyway who cares, talk about whatever kind of bag you want!

      4. Clearly it’s a tongue-in-cheek reference to the fact that it’s not one of the two or three that seem to get discussed every day. For example, I bet there’s been at least one post about Cuyana totes every day this week.

    6. if its one of the metro bags, one of the bloggers i follow swears by throwing it in the wash. she apparently does this weekly and hasn’t had any issues

  11. Has anyone had one recently? My recent pap came back looking a bit funny (but negative for HPV). I’m done with having kids if they find out anything that looks funny.

    If you’ve had one recently, what kind of pain meds did it warrant (hopefully OTC)?
    How bad was the recovery?
    Did you take any time off of work?

    From the messages we’ve been trading, OB/GYN’s office says I can drive to/from and will just get numbed locally.

    1. It was a non event. I took half an hour off work to make it to the appointment on time and took 2 Advil an hour before the procedure. You can absolutely drive yourself to and from.

    2. Mine wasn’t recent, but I didn’t find the pain to be unbearable. As your doc has said, they will use local to numb you and you will probably have cramping afterwards as that wears off. I recall that I went back to work after I had it done, but don’t feel like you need to be a martyr like me!

      All in all, I didn’t find it worse than my most intense period cramps.

      1. I had the same level of pain.It was totally livable, though I certainly wouldn’t volunteer for it.

    3. I had a colposcopy and it was absolutely nothing. Basically just a pap with some cramping. Certainly no painkillers or time off work is needed.

      1. +1 it’s basically a more uncomfortable pap. No painkillers for me (not even a Motrin but you could definitely take one).

      2. +2. It was years ago, but it was really a non-event and I did not need any painkillers.

    4. I had one and it was similar to a pap smear. I was so nervous about it and it was not a big deal at all. Maybe it depends on what they biopsy, but mine just felt like the swab with a tiny pinch. Required no pain meds and no extra time off work other than the appointment. Maybe I would liken it to a cervix check when you’re pregnant.

    5. It hurt more than a pap and less than having an IUD removed. I have not had children, so currently that rates as the most painful thing that’s ever happened in that region and my new basis for pain lol. Think bad period cramps and prepare for that.

      1. Hold the phone – getting IUD removed is painful too?? Getting it placed was a nightmare, but everyone told me removal would be cake.. this news is devastating to me! (I wish I was being melodramatic but IUD placement was the worst pain I have felt, more than broken bones, surgery recovery and complications, and tooth removal)

        1. My IUD removal was fine. I thought insertion was the worst pain ever, worse than labor.

          1. +1. I found IUD insertion more painful than the drug-free delivery of my giant baby.

        2. I have had two IUDs removed and it was not painful for me. Insertion was, especially the one where I had not recently had a baby, but removal was fine for me.

        3. I didn’t even notice when my IUD was removed. I was bracing for it when the OB said she had finished.
          I didn’t find insertion particularly painful, but was 8 weeks post partum, which helps.
          I took a couple motrin before each appointment.

        4. I agree that the first insertion (prior to any kids) is absolutely the most painful thing I have ever experienced (including delivering a baby). Getting it removed before I got pregnant felt more like a pap smear. I hardly felt anything when I got a second one inserted 8 weeks postpartum. I was actually shocked how much better it was the second time around.

    6. I’ve had a couple, and it depends on what they do (which they might not know until they get in there). The first time they did a cervical biopsy and that was fairly painful (and I bled the rest of the day) but the other time they just took an extra peek with some special dye stuff and it was no worse than a pap. But either way I wouldn’t have concerns about driving or going back to work if you want.

    7. Was a non-event. They numb you in that spot, you feel a pinch, and go about your day. It stings a bit for 24 hrs but not enough to need any pain medicine (I didn’t even need a tylenol) and you may have light bleeding.

    8. Mine hurt a lot but for a *very* short period of time–like seconds? Which makes it not a big deal. The after-effects weren’t any worse than a bad period day. I definitely only took OTC meds. Getting an IUD placed is far worse.

      Also, I’m not sure what you mean by this: “I’m done with having kids if they find out anything that looks funny.” It’s a fairly routine follow-up test and, I may be missing something particular to your situation that would warrant not having additional children but, gently, it sounds like you’re catastrophizing. Again, though, I could be missing something. I do remember that the doctors made it out to be much more of a thing than it turned out to be and maybe it does have horrible consequences if something comes back positive, but it seems to be VERY common among my age group (37).

      Hugs. Medical stuff is scary.

    9. Mine wasn’t nothing! It was very uncomfortable and I didn’t get numbed anywhere. Definitely take a bunch of ibuprofen. Didn’t take any time off work, but was certainly pretty grumpy when I got back.

  12. After two years of trying to have a kid with no luck….not even a positive pregnancy test….we did a frozen embryo transfer on 2/18. Our initial beta is scheduled for tomorrow to check HCG hormone levels, but home pregnancy tests are looking very positive!
    We know we have a long way to go, but are cautiously optimistic. We’re trying to keep things quiet until we know more…but I really just want to shout from the rooftops. So…here I am, shouting!
    I really appreciate this community of wise women. Thanks for being supportive internet strangers!

    1. Good luck! Same here … 3 years without a positive test, first round of IVF in November … I was you 17 weeks ago, now I’m due in July.

    2. Woohoo!! Huge congratulations and hugs to you, what wonderful news!! My son is thanks to FET also and I am so, so grateful for modern medicine!

    3. Congrats! Come join us on the moms site when you feel ready! It’s my favorite online community!

    6. Congrats!! So much work to get to this stage. I recently went through 2 rounds of IVF (3 transfers) and am now 15 weeks pregnant. You got this :) Fingers and toes crossed for you!

    7. congrats! I am almost 10 weeks from an FET in January. Just waiting to do NIPT next week and praying everything comes back normal. H&H nine months!!

  13. I’m traveling too much and need a better way to carry my ID for airport security and office security and other places that require easy access. I used to have a pocket on the back of my phone but that doesn’t work with wireless charging now. Same thing for one of those leather wallet cases. Suggestions?

    2. Get CLEAR if it’s available at your airport and you don’t need to pull out ID.

      1. CLEAR is the super best. They also have it at major concert venues so that’s a fun bonus.

      2. Shhh! Don’t tell anyone or the Clear lines will get just as long as the precheck lines. ;)

    3. Not sure exactly what you are looking for, but I have an RFID blocking passport case with multiple slots for cards, etc.

    5. Many travel backpacks (like mine from Tumi) have a little zip pocket at the top designed to hold id and credit cards. Pretty convenient.

      1. I use the “hidden” side pocket on my Tumi (behind the side pocket on the non-water bottle side) — it blew my mind when I discovered it was there!

    6. I’ve done two things lately to tackle this problem. both crazy. 1) I bought a scarf-with-a-hidden-pocket from Etsy and use that while traveling to hold my ID and boarding pass. Once I am on the plane, i use the pocket for headphones, lip stuff, etc. You have to remove the scarf when you go through security but it’s harder to forget there than a loose license. 2) The last time I renewed my license, I paid for a state ID and I carry that in a plastic sleeve separate from my wallet so I can pull it out for office security, going to a bar, etc. That cuts down on fumbling with my wallet or forgetting to put my drivers license back where it belongs.

    7. I wear a thin northface with lots of pockets when I travel. I move the license to my wallet/purse once I’m on the plane.

    8. If you’re okay with a phone case that covers the screen when it’s closed (I wouldn’t be, for the record), you could get a wallet phone case. The back of the phone case doesn’t have anything more than a normal case to interfere. Also, maybe just give up on wireless charging if having the pocket was more convenient?

  14. I am a throw money in the pot and don’t do anything with it retirement account person. I fully fund my 401k with pre-tax at work, but also have an IRA that is not yet fully funded for 2020. What should I be doing to take advantage of the drop in the stock market right now? I am not at allllllll savvy when it comes to this stuff, so please give me the investing for dummies version!

    1. I think the general advice is to just keep contributing as normal, if you’re at least a few years away from retirement.

    3. Buy. Don’t try to time the market in general but if you need to fund it anyway, do it now.

      1. Oh definitely not trying to time the market – I wouldn’t even know how to do that. I plan to buy, just didn’t know if there was something I needed to do other than throw money at it (e.g., pick a certain fund, etc. (not even sure those are the right terms).)

        1. None of us can answer that for you. It depends on your goals and risk tolerance. However, a lot of people in the financial independence world would tell you to go with a Vanguard index fund (VTSAX, VTIAX, VBTLX). Do your own research and figure out what you’re comfortable with, but I personally prefer low-cost index funds as well.

        2. Have you fully contributed to your IRA for 2019 already? If not, apply it there first before the cutoff date and then to 2020 after that.

    4. Assuming it’s a long term horizon (i.e. not next year or even the next 3 years — not saying this will last for 3 yrs just a guideline), buy. Market is 10% off its highs – it’s a discount assuming you don’t NEED to make money tomorrow because nothing suggests that it won’t end up being off 12% or 18% or whatever. My personal view — buy when it’s off 5%, then 7%, then 10%, and then every subsequent 5% after that, buy when it hits the 200 day moving average. Obviously you need cash in reserve to do this.

    5. I’m using this drop to buy a bit more. It will mostly be Vanguard index funds, but I will probably buy a tiny bit more of my favorite Costco/Tesla/Apple.

      I like to buy companies that I understand and support their vision and use their products. So I am actually struggling with Apple, as I am not happy with their tax avoidance and labor violations. I need to divest….

      I only buy individual stocks in small amounts, and go in with the idea…. “If I loose all of this money, I will be ok”. And they have only gone up, up, up.

  15. I have several pairs of these pants but have stopped buying because Lott’s quality is terrible. The pants get holes or the zipper breaks in a year or two.

    Oh, and their vanity sizing is insane. I’m a full size or two lower than my size in Ann Taylor which is the same company.

    1. I want to like them but the rise is just too high for me and I hate the back seam.

    2. I do purchase from Loft but mostly tops, and I don’t expect the quality to be great. I’ve been surprised that the tops have done well but I don’t wash them after every wear, and I don’t buy sweaters from them (because I rarely buy sweaters). I tried using them for suiting when I needed a suit in a size that I didn’t expect to stay at (two up from my normal) but coudn’t find anything classic/conservative enough.

      1. I also really like some of my tops from Loft as well as some super comfy ponte blazers.

        1. I have two all-cotton sweaters (a cardigan and a pullover) that both look great after ~2 years of frequent use. Most of my pants are from LOFT and I haven’t had issues with quality … yet.
          (I do not work for LOFT)

      2. Ditto! Glad I’m not alone in this observation. LOFT’s tops rock but its pants leave me wanting more for the price. I’m almost always sick of my LOFT tops before they wear out. On the other hand, my first (and only) pair of LOFT pants became VERY nubby on one side and the top closure broke – both within the first week of ownership :\ Another complaint is that LOFT just doesn’t go on sale here in Canada like it does in the US, and has never ever offered a free shipping promo. Ah well – first world problems.

    3. I agree that their vanity sizing is insane. But I have been wearing these pants for years and have never had a zipper break or a hole form. Never. I have about 5 pairs right now. I think once I had a hem drop, but I caught my foot in it and repaired it quickly myself. I always wait for the 40-50% off sale and they are by far my best bang for the buck pants.

      I am constantly looking for curvy work pants though, and even these don’t fit great. They gape too much at the transition from butt to leg. Banana Republic’s don’t work for me.

    4. I always hear this complaint about Loft, but I can’t say I’ve noticed much difference in my Loft size vs. Ann Taylor vs. anywhere else. Maybe it’s more of an issue at the smaller end of the size range? I’m a 10/12 across the board.

    5. I noticed the new skinny ankle pants are made from a thinner material. I expect them to look like I have a diaper on after wearing them for an hour. Hope I’m wrong.

  16. To the poster yesterday asking about rent in Chicago: Can I be a supporting voice for your frugal self? I was surprised how many people just said “go for it” on the higher rent. No one mentioned retirement savings! But let’s say you want to have $1M to retire on. That’s less than my goal but I’m pretty conservative. To get there, you want to have saved $500K by age 40 so it has time to double in the market. Now let’s say you can save $200 a month on rent, and that compounds into frugality that saves you $200/ month for the 15 years between now and age 40. So you’ve saved about $36,000 extra, which has likely compounded to $50K. Are you willing to give up 8-10% of your retirement goal for the luxury of avoiding e.g. coin laundry?

    I know you’re planning to move in w boyfriend and this is short term, but I was shocked that this financially savvy group of women didn’t illustrate that trade off for you yesterday and wanted to make it clear!

    1. This scenario is nonsensical. Why are you assuming she’s going to stop contributing to her retirement account at age 40? And why are you assuming she will be able to retire on $1M in nominal dollars?

      1. +1. I expect 40-65 to be my peak contribution years because around 40 we’ll own our home outright and kids will be out of daycare, so our expenses will go down dramatically. I understand that it’s better to contribute early so money has time to grow, but that isn’t realistic for everyone, and most people end up making significant contributions after age 40.

        1. Hi OP here!

          I would continue to contribute 15% to my 401k and max out my Roth no matter what. The extra rent money would come out of the amount I ear mark for my monthly cash savings and spending money so if I decide to stay in a cheaper apartment, I wouldn’t necessarily start contributing that amount into retirement. But maybe that’s not a good way to look at it? I would still be putting about $500/month into cash savings even with the more expensive rent. (Right now I save about $800/month cash) This is exactly where my guilt/stress over the rent starts to kick in!

    2. It’s an easy yes for me and don’t think the trade-offs are dollar for dollar. I work in the Loop and have generally lived in Loop-adjacent neighborhoods the last ten years (Printer’s Row, near West Loop, River West). A few thoughts as to why it’s an easy yes for me:

      – Savings from no car/using Divvy annual membership: I don’t need a car, but am a big Divvy user. I live within three blocks of a Jewel and about ten blocks from a Whole Foods. I estimate this saves me in the range of $10K a year.
      – Savings from “only buy what you can carry”: Self-explanatory, but I only buy what I can carry. Who knows how much it saves, but it is something.
      – Mental health: The “happiness” studies show that living close to work and reducing commute time makes for a happier person. While I haven’t had a long commute, really, ever, any time I need to do it, I go crazy and immediately get why long commutes create unhappier people. Again, hard to measure from a dollar perspective, but presumably helps with health outcomes later in life.

      Those are just a few, but I no longer think purely in terms of my 401(k) or Vanguard account growing on a dollar-for-dollar basis. Better health outcomes later in life are as important for me.

      1. God yes on the mental health aspect. That’s a huge one, even if it doesn’t come with a dollar figure clearly attached. I would so much rather pay for that now than live a miserable life to have extra money to retire on.

    3. I’m agree about the power of compounding those savings…but I do think these calculations are extremely conservative. Having $500K by 40 so it can double by 65 seems to suppose (1) no further retirement savings after age 40 and (2) approximately a 3% after-tax return on the $500K over those 25 years.

      I would cheap out on rent myself, but I also don’t think this decision amounts to 10% of a retirement goal.

    4. I make a bit less than what that poster does, a bit more when you account for child support. I max out retirement (401k and ROTH IRA), save cash, and pay more in rent than what she’s contemplating. So I don’t think her numbers are crazy given.

    5. OP of the Chicago post–

      The mental health/quality of life factor is huge and there is definitely an element of wanting to “treat” myself for at least a year. It was good to hear that my rent range was not as outrageous as I was making it out to be. I am very money-conscious in all other aspects of my life (I obsess over my savings a LOT) and have just recently started to move towards the mindset of investing more in expensive things that are better quality/will last longer rather than buying whatever is cheapest. And I think this situation is the last hurdle of this, in a way.

      I really appreciate everyone’s responses, they have given me a lot to think about! I think I will likely go for something in a high rise, but I am going to shop around aggressively to find a place on the lower end of the range.

  17. Does anyone have recommendations for an undereye concealer? I feel like I constantly look tired and unhappy, even when I’m not, and wondering if a better concealer may do the trick.

    1. NARS creamy concealer works great for this. I like the texture. There’s also a rather expensive dr. brandt product called “no more baggage” that i like a lot for reducing them – wait to find it somewhere on sale though!

      1. I just started using this after seeing the rec for years. I am not good with makeup and this is super easy to use, blends/sinks in well, and is cheap. I really like it and it is the only makeup I use other than eye primer, eyeliner, and mascara.

      2. This. I’ve started using this for pretty light coverage in my tzone. The bingo marker-style applicator is amazing, though I do use a makeup brush to even it out all over.

      3. 3rd-ing this. Best concealer I’ve ever tried, not even for the value, but overall. I have dark undereye shadows due to my bone structure and this does the best at covering them up/evening that general region out.

    3. the maybelline Instant Age Rewind Eraser Dark Circle concealer works well and is cheap…it has a big sponge applicator that makes it easy to apply. I’ve also had good luck using a color corrector; I’ve used both the sephora brand (I think the product’s called bright future? brighter future?) and Becca. it’s a light pinkish color but it makes me look more alive in my undereyes (with or without concealer). also Kosas has a new concealer out this week I’m interested in trying.

      1. +1. NYX has an easy-to-use color-correcting palette. I also like their concealer – for me, the maybelline spongy one didn’t work as well.

        1. +1 to the NYX concealer. I’ve also tried the NARS creamy concealer and like NYX just as well.

    4. I find the Maybelline Superstay concealer is a better option than the age rewind if you need anything other than light coverage, and it wears better throughout the day – although if you have dry skin you need to moisturize well before putting it on.

    5. Voice of dissent here- I’ve been using the Revlon photo ready concealer (looks like a lipstick tube) for years but tried the Age Rewind based on the rave reviews. Ended up throwing it away and going back to photo ready.

    7. IT Cosmetics bye-bye undereye is full coverage without getting cakey. It is pricey but you don’t need much, so it lasts forever.

      When I’m in a rush, I’ll use the Maybelline Age Rewind that’s popular here, but I still like the IT concealer more.

    8. Somebody here mentioned the Becca Under Eye Brightening Corrector and it has been a game changer for me! You do need to put concealer over it. It makes a huge difference for my genetic, perpetual under eye circles.

      2. Yes. I use, only occasionally, the Age Rewind, Tarte Shape Tape and one from E.L.F. (cheap and surprisingly good) and I never wear foundation.

      3. I use IT cosmetics bye bye undereye and don’t wear any other makeup. It apply it with my fingers and blend it out with a beauty blender.

    10. Aveda’s “inner light” concealer has a great amount of pigment, doesn’t cake, and is long wearing. Also had great luck with Sephora’s Make No Mistake high-coverage concealer! On the face I love IT Costmetics CC cream (oil-free version), which I find is terrific on my oily skin and even covers acne scarring. Terrific oil absorbing power – my face does. not. get. shiny. even after a long stressful day.

  18. Has anyone had laser hair removal done on their arms? Would you do it again? The question about cosmetic procedures made me think of that.

    I’ve always been self conscious about the dark hair on my arms. I bleach it sometimes before photos or big events, but it’s a pain and I honestly wish it was just not an issue always. I’m worried having hairless arms is going to look weird to me though…

    1. I have! I also know tons of women who remove their arm hair. It does not look weird at all. Laser worked really well for me and was relatively painless.

    2. I also have very dark hair on my arms, which includes some on the backs of my hands/fingers and whoa… you should see my legs. Let’s just say not having a boyfriend frees up SO MUCH TIME as I stop body hair maintenance.

      But for arms…. Actually, shaving them may be easier and less painful than bleaching, if you only do it sporadically. And it is easier to maintain once you start. I often do it just in the summer months. Just requires quick touchups in the shower. I have sensitive skin but do well with a good multi-blade razor and using hair conditioner as “Shaving cream”. Learned about that on this site.

      And many women of certain ethnic backgrounds have essentially no hair on their arms or barely noticeable hair on their arms. It doesn’t look odd to shave yours off.

      Part of me is so so so so so so so resentful of how society makes me feel about my hairy body. And those of you that say just leave it …. do what you want…. clearly do not look like me. Or live in my area. Or work in my field. The only thing that bothers me more than my hairy body is when people stare at my hairy body

      It is my fantasy to do laser for my arms/underarms/legs etc… But it’s just not in my budget.

    1. Haven’t bought their shoes, but I was not happy with their customer service around a maternity item and wouldn’t recommend buying from them unless you’re ok eating the cost if they don’t work for you or break quickly.

  20. For applying for an attorney job in a government agency, what kind of writing sample should I provide? I’m coming from a corporate/regulatory law firm practice, so not much in the way of published briefs.

  21. As part of my role, I have a lot of long term product and process improvement tasks that come and go based on other priorities. If it’s a busy time on another project, these individual tasks fall off my radar quickly, and then I forget where I am when I go to pick them back up. They are open-ended development tasks that don’t have much structure or deadline, so it’s more of a filler when other projects have slowed down. Every time I go to pick them back up, it’s extremely difficult to get my head wrapped back around where I left off and what the goal is in order to make more progress. Does anyone have suggestions for some sort of free project management tool that I could keep time-stamped notes on progress or thoughts on next steps so I can more easily pick back up where I left off? It doesn’t need to be shared with multiple teammates since these are individual projects until it is time to review with managers.

    1. Trello, maybe? I feel like I struggle with this, too. It’s the “important but not urgent” stuff that slips through the cracks.

  22. I realized too late there is a big fold crease down the middle front of my cotton sweater today. Any way I can mitigate this at work?

      1. This is definitely true, so if you try the other things and they don’t work, try not to worry about it too much :)

    2. Yes. Take it off, breathe on it (like mouth to sweater hot air breath) while stretching out the crease. Think of it as emergency steaming.

      If that fails: scarf.

    3. If you have a metal water bottle or travel cup (something with a narrow opening), fill it up with hot water from a kettle/coffee maker and use that to steam the crease in the bathroom or your office.

    4. Use hot water in a metal water bottle or travel cup (something with a small opening) to steam out the crease.

  23. Looking for a reality check. My husband is a VP-level at a big company who is getting the “coaching plan” treatment. He and his direct boss have been out of sync since they started working together about a year ago, so this isn’t a huge surprise, but disappointing since he has been getting good feedback and reviews notwithstanding their general lack of alignment. He’s getting sick of the whole thing and is considering negotiating a package and quitting rather than following this course to its natural conclusion in several months. At his level, I think it’s going to take a few months to find a good fit. He probably should have been trying earlier, but… oh well. He thinks these days it’s not that uncommon to take time off to look for the next opportunity, but I’m pretty risk averse and have always thought it’s much better to be employed while looking for a job. What do you wise ladies think?

    Any other tips on how to support him? I think he’s super great (obviously) but I know this is taking a toll on his self esteem. I’ll have a hard time helping him much by taking on more family responsibilities in order to free up more job-searching time for him, since I have a pretty demanding career myself (biglaw), but I’m trying to think about what I can do…

    1. First off, it stinks. This happened to my husband as well, where he had been with the company 20 years and went from a High Potential to being coached out in a year. I cannot emphasize enough the confidence hit he took. Get him out ASAP.
      He ended up retiring (but it wasn’t really his choice), and we went to one income. With 2 small kids, it was incredibly stressful. That said, get him out now! Staying throughout the plan only made everything worse.

      1. I agreed with this – men really, really take a hit when the job isn’t going well. My DH has switched departments at work, and is now working on a slightly different part of the technology, and boy oh boy has not being Mr. Ace Number One on the tech put him in a pouty mood lately. Comes home beating himself up for making “rookie mistakes” when he’s only been working on the new tech for the past couple of months, and the guys he works with have been at it for years and sometimes decades. Let DH get out ASAP, but use your risk-aversion to come up with a financial plan first. How many months are you all really good for? What expenses can you cut, etc.? It will make you feel more in control of the situation and less like you’re throwing caution to the wind. He can nod and smile through a month or so of his “coaching plan” while you get your plans in place and he does some preliminary networking. And I’m not suggesting this because he’s a man and deserves coddling because of that – I’ve done this same exercise myself when I realized I was just done with a job.

    2. I think in terms of leaving or staying, that is a decision that he needs to make himself and you should support him. Generally I do think it’s easier to find a job while you have a job, but staying in a situation where you are on a coaching-type performance place seems really demoralizing if he’s usually a high performer.

    3. I can’t comment on the tolerance for people at his level looking for jobs with/or without them currently.

      BUT ….I’d not let your risk-aversion have full-play here – definitely don’t let it drive your decision or tempt you to freak out at him when he talks about quitting. Make a solid, wise decision together, but not a fear-based one. If you’re in biglaw and he’s at VP level, you guys must be making really good money. You can very likely afford risk in a way that most families can’t.

    4. this is field dependent, but in my large company world, senior Exec/VP level often go through this with leadership changes. A lot of it comes down to style/culture mesh. So, I don’t think it’s as critical at that level to be employed when job hunting, since this is not an unusual scenario. He should be putting feelers out to his network at this point, depending on industry maybe starting to work with relevant search firms.

    5. He needs a break, clearly, and I hope you are supportive of that. It must be miserable to be there being coached out every day, knowing the ultimate outcome. He should absolutely negotiate the package if he’s able to. He should be looking for a year of severance if possible, but at his level 6 months minimum, with all benefits paid during that period.

      Employers understand someone at his level being forced out due to reorganizations – it happens all the time.

    6. My husband went through this too. Talk to a lawyer and negotiate an exit, then give your husband space to figure it out next steps. It’s not uncommon to to have a gap at this level.

    7. Are you me a year ago?

      I would say ideally find something before leaving. Mine did not, and it has been hard. Impossible to say if it would’ve taken less time if he was still employed though, to be fair.

      Since you asked how to support him, I would say that honestly me really trying to get involved at all has not been well received, no matter how supportive my intention, other than listening when he needs someone to listen. Sometimes he needs to hear what I have to say regardless so I say it anyway, but my assurances or suggestions have not been the magic help I wish they were. What has helped given the confidence loss has been therapy and in my husband’s particular case, medication.

      Hugs and good luck.

      1. * to be clear, therapy for him. (Although it probably wouldn’t hurt for me either!)

  24. Hoping there’s some tech savvy ladies here as I totally can’t ask people IRL and deem myself an OLD person. There’s an interview I’d like to listen to that’s 2 hours long. It’s available everywhere — youtube, cnbc etc. It’s not a podcast though. I don’t need to watch, just want to listen to the audio. Is there any way to do this in my car short of putting it on my phone (and obviously not watching the phone but just listening like radio)? Is this the kind of thing that Bluetooth is for? My car is Bluetooth enabled though I never did anything to activate it/don’t use it/don’t actually know what it does. Is this possible at all? Would be a good thing to listen to while driving so I don’t have to spend 2 straight hours on it at home.

    1. Yes! You can totally do this – once your phone is synced to your car’s bluetooth, you can just ‘watch’ the video on your phone, and the audio will be played through your car speakers. I’ve done this before and it works fine.

      1. +1 You just have to sync it with your car bluetooth to play the audio through your speakers. Most car stereo systems will walk you through the steps. The car system will issue a code, then you type the code on your phone, and it will pair.

    2. If I did this, I’d have to put the phone out of reach (on the back seat or sth), to avoid the reflex of looking at the screen whenever I am missing nonverbal cues.
      If you want to stream the whole video while driving, you would need considerable data on your phone plan, as well as good reception along the way. Youtube red would be an option where you can download the video beforehand and play it offline. They probably have a month-long trial before you would pay.

    3. On your car, there will be a setting to “add a new phone” or similar. You also need to open up the Bluetooth setting on your phone and “connect to a Bluetooth device”. This way your phone connects to your car wirelessly, and vice versa. Both devices connect to each other, then you can play anything from your phone (and have phone calls while in the car! a game changer) and have it play through your car stereo speakers.

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