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Updated: Jun 3, 2024 304 Comments · by

Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Striped Cotton Poplin Shirtdress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) | · ·

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A woman wearing a black-and-white striped long-sleeve dress and black platform sandals

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This long-sleeved shirtdress from Pari Passu is a stunner. I love this brand’s approach to sizing — in addition to numerical sizes, they also offer different shapes (straight, curvy, and hourglass), which is particularly important in plus sizing.

I would pair this dress with some bold jewelry and a great shoe for a day when I want to be feeling like the best version of myself. 

The dress is $378 and comes in Pari Passu sizes 2–7, which fit like U.S. sizes 14–24, along with curvy, straight, and hourglass shapes for each size.

For straight sizes, try this $124 dress from Foxcroft (which happens to be available in plus sizes too); if you'd like to stay closer to the original but with a lower price, check out this Loft dress (regular/petite) that comes down to $45 at checkout (with code).

Sales of note for 9.30.24

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Reader I am divorcing him

    Hello, back again – I find it really helpful to me to get your support, and the responses to my posts give me a real boost. So I hope you will indulge me!
    (TLDR – separated from my alcoholic abusive husband – about to instruct my lawyers to start the divorce…….)
    My question today – I am seeing a therapist (I’m UK based, and this is the first time I have had therapy). So far, most focus has been on self-care, living through the grief, tactics to manage my loss of focus when I need to focus and starting to work on how to reduce my response to threat. She is the right person for me at the moment. I’d love to hear your experiences on what you have done to get the most out of therapy. I’m very much from the background of ‘pull yourself together and have a cup of tea’ school, but I know I need more than that.
    In other news he is clearly rattled, and the police case continues for now. I’m keeping busy and am even keeled until something brings him to the forefront of my mind. Sometimes I can work through that pretty quickly and sometimes it take longer, but I have a good support network of friends I can call when I need pulling back from the spiralling thoughts.
    Thank you

    • Anon

      First, let me say how impressed we all are — such hard work, and such amazing fortitude.

      Second, think of your therapist like a coach. She can give you structure and tips, but ultimately it’s you doing the work and putting in practice time. So your job (could be now, could be in a bit) is to figure out what you want out of therapy. Is it a safe space to vent? It is specific action tasks to get to a goal? Is it unraveling of the “why’s” for your patterns and habits? Those goals may shift and change throughout your time with your therapist. Once you decide your goal for the immediate time period, then be clear about it with the therapist.

      You can also make this a focus of your next therapy session — you can tell your therapist that you’d like to think about how to get the most out of therapy long-term, and you’d like to map out some goals together, along with ways of moving toward those goals.

    • Anon

      Hang in there, you’ve got this!
      On therapy specifically, I think it’s overrated. No one can fix your life but you and therapy can be counterproductive as it keeps you focused on the past instead of moving on. I think it’s worth continuing to see someone while you navigate everything as a source of support but I would see that as the end game. I don’t find a ton of value in going over my childhood and everything that’s happened in the past. When you get to the point of dating again, that could be a point to start up if you want a place to discuss that process.

      • No Problem

        Ehh, I see what you’re saying, but I also think there’s value in the OP delving into how she ended up with this man so she can avoid someone like him in the future. Is it because all of her role models as a child were like that, so she gravitates toward similar romantic partners? That would be important to know and something to address in therapy (actionable steps to retrain her picker to avoid those kinds of men). But I would agree that it maybe isn’t important to delve into the names she was called by a bully back in third grade or the sense of abandonment she felt when a best friend moved away. Is it because he was masking his true self, but in reality there were some signs that she missed? Now that she knows those signs, how can she do a better job looking for them in potential future partners? That sort of thing is definitely in the “past” but it’s absolutely relevant to the present and future.

        • Anon

          I’m 9:29 and I don’t completely disagree with you, having the answer to that is a good idea. It just doesn’t always need to come from therapy. Personally, I knew darn well why I’d picked certain terrible exes and it wasn’t some big therapy revelation. That said, I can see how it could be and if OP is struggling with that then it could be useful for sure. I’d just be careful to not view as a “must do” or something requires before you can get on with your life, which I think is a pretty common trap.

          • Reader I am divorcing him

            Thank you to the last 2 anons. That is really useful input. I think I know myself well enough to be confident that my childhood was not the issue, or my relationship with my parents etc. I don’t need to pay $ to understand that, but I do want to look after my current and future self, and make sure I am not tempted to shut myself away in a nunnery to avoid any future hurt to myself!
            Anon at 8,20 – thank you some useful questions and structures to bring into play.

          • anon

            As my dad so eloquently said when my sister was getting divorced from a man who turned out to be a narcissist: Sometimes sh!t happens. Diving into the way can be helpful for some, but ending up with a bad person isn’t always for some deep reason.

      • Anon

        Yes, but not all therapy is rehearsing childhoods. Some of it is establishing habits and structures for moving forward (so a really practical approach); some of it is having someone to reflect back to you some of your thoughts to reframe them, etc. All to say: therapy can be repetitive and stagnating, but that’s why it’s important to clarify why you’re there, what your goals are, and how to achieve them.

        • Seventh Sister

          For me, talking about my childhood and my background with a therapist helped me understand how I react to certain things as an adult and to be able to stop or revise some of those patterns. Not all therapy is high-quality or efficient (including some of the therapy I’ve gone through) but it’s helped me respond and react in healthier ways than crying myself to sleep every night or randomly shouting at people.

    • Anonymous

      You are a very brave women. Think of how great your life will be 5 years from now.

    • Anon

      Al-anon can be a huge support to you. It’s FREE, and you can go to meetings in person, zoom or simply dial in. They may seem cuckoo at first but give it a chance; you will gain a whole network of people to talk to day and night if you want to. 💕

    • Senior Attorney

      You are doing fantastically well, OP! Congratulations on doing the hard things! As for therapy, I agree that the best use of it (in addition to the self care aspect you mentioned) is to figure out how you got into this relationship, why you stayed, and how best to avoid repeating it in the future. YOU GOT THIS!!

    • Anon

      I hear you that therapy is not just new for you, but something that feels a little foreign… Hopefully that is something that you can bring up to the therapist. It will help her to be aware of that, and it may allow you to have a more productive conversation about your goals and how you’re going to work together. It’s not on you alone to figure that out!

    • RiskedCredit

      I started using therapy to address why I had so much toxicity in my life. I’ve had a hard time on all fronts, career, breakdown of marriage, post divorce abusive behavior and living in a new city which I don’t particularly love, mainly because my ex husband hasn’t left me alone.

      Today I use therapy to help with rebuilding my life. My ex husband is always accusing me of being the problem and I struggle with how to phrase replies. I also struggle with fully detaching myself so I don’t get anxiety from the children being manipulated, neglected or used by him to abuse me.

      Sometimes it’s just really unfortunate you ended up in a relationship with someone who isn’t good for you. Other times it’s a function of behaviors which attract the wrong type of person. Therapy can help you figure out which camp you are in.

  2. Anon

    Any recommendations for a jumpsuit for a fancy baby shower? My style skews edgy/rocker and I’m having a hard time finding one that isn’t too plain or floral. Bonus points for fast shipping!

  3. NYC Broadway

    Hi all, I will be in NYC for work next week, and am planning to see Suffs on Broadway one night by myself. Recommendations for where I could grab a quick bite, either around the theater or my hotel, which is located in the financial district near the ferry terminal? I was planning on just taking the subway around as it looks like a straight shot on the 1. I assume dressy casual clothes are fine? I might also have one more free night to maybe squeeze in another show, would be interested in other recommendations! I like musicals and comedy, my favorite musical of all time is Chicago.

    • Anonymous

      Loved “&Julet” so much on a recent trip – highly recommend this musical.

      • Anon

        Oh that’s all over my ad feed and it looks amazing, makes me want to go to NYC to see it!

      • anon

        yes subway is the easiest way and you should be fine at those hours. You can absolutely wear anything you want. I always wear a longer skirt or pants because i don’t like the feel of the velvet seats on my legs. I would also make sure to have a scarf or sweater but that is my general summer advice, not specific to this. have fun! i live here and am seeing suffs for my birthday (i hope, i’ve dropped lots of hints)

      • Anonymous

        OP here- I want to see that too! But it’s coming to my city in Dec on the touring production so I thought maybe I should prioritize only in NYC shows

        • Anon

          Personally, I’m a big fan of seeing the original cast over the touring shows. I go to the tours because I love musicals, but nothing beats real broadway.

          • Anon

            I’m with OP. Unless you’re talking about a brand new musical with big names, the Broadway shows are usually many cast replacements deep and the actors aren’t necessarily any more talented than the first run of a national tour, which often gets top tier people. I see theater every time I go to NY because I can’t not, but I always come away thinking tour casts are just about as talented, at 1/3 or less the price.

          • Anonymous

            Part of the reason touring shows are cheaper is they often aren’t unionized, so cast and crew are not being paid nearly as well. Broadway itself is heavily unionized.

            OP, Merrily We Roll Along is very popular right now, but will probably be hard to get tickets for. If you like classic rock, Stereophonic is a play with a lot of music – it’s sort of like watching Fleetwood Mac record Rumors. I found it a bit slow, but I think that is part of the point. Hell’s Kitchen has gotten good reviews. A lot of the new musicals this year are pretty meh.

      • Anonymous

        I saw it in London and it was amazing. I’ve seen a lot of jukebox musicals but that is probably one of the best ones.

    • Anonymous

      My favorite solo spot near theater is Sen Sakana. But last time I was there, we went to Becco, and there are a ton of restaurants situated around it that all cater to the theater crowd. As a solo, you could probably just drop in and sit at a bar.

    • Anonymous

      If you want something really quick, I like Schnipper’s in the NY Times building, or Green Symphony on 43rd between 8th and 7th. For sit down, try Marseille on 9th Ave or Glasshouse Tavern on 46th. Glasshouse has a bar menu that is a little cheaper and tasty too.

  4. Nanobrow?

    I’m debating doing a nanobrow treatment – a bit less invasive than microblading, but would like to get away from every two to three weeks tinting. If you have good or bad experiences with this particular treatment, would appreciate hearing about it. If you are in the Twin Cities area and have a provider you would recommend, please let me know that as well.

    • Greensleeves

      I had mine nanobladed last year – original in November, touch up appointment in January – and I am thrilled! I have lost a lot of my brow hair, so I was filling in with a pencil every day and I was sick of it. She did a great job and the healing was not bad at all. I have fairly sensitive skin and I did not have any major scabbing or anything obvious except a bit of flaking for a day or two. Now they look great every day, and the most I ever do is swipe on a little tinted brow gel to darken the blonde hairs! Do make sure you read the provider’s before and after care instructions carefully and make sure you schedule for a time that you can comply with those.

      The provider I used had done brows for an acquaintance and they looked great, so I stalked her on Instagram for several months to make sure that I liked and trusted her style. I could tell from her posts that she was well informed. In fact, she regularly conducts training for others. She has connections outside our state and has trained people from around the midwest, so if you’d like to message her to see if she can make a recommendation for your area, her Insta is @daymakerartistry.

    • Anon

      Curious here, what’s the difference between this and microblading? I’m blonde and have stayed away from the former because a lot of people warned about navy blue eyebrows.

      • Anonymous

        OP here – watched a bunch of youtube videos to figure out, but microblading is more like cuts; nanobrow is more like drawn hairs. To me, they look more natural.

    • Anon

      I did not do myself because I have naturally good brows, but a friend had powder brows done about 18 months ago and her brows are awesome.

  5. anon

    Hi – you all have the best advice. I am having an MRI of my shoulder soon and am super claustrophobic and anxious about going in the tube. I have an anti-anxiety med that I will take the day of, any other tips or tricks on how to get through the 30-60 min in the tube without panicking?

    • anon

      i just had one. keep your eyes closed or wear an eye mask. otherwise it really looks like you are in a cage.

      • ALT

        +1. I hope this doesn’t increase your anxiety (it really is not bad!!!) but I was doing fine with mine with my eyes closed until I opened them and was startled by how close to the top of the tube I was. Mine was on my brain so maybe that had something to do with it?

        If you tell the techs that you’re anxious, they’ll play soothing music and are so nice about it. You can always press the button to have them pull you out for a breather if you need it.

    • Anon

      You’ll know if you’re someone who can lower their anxiety with more information but 1. You do have a button to stop and leave the machine in an emergency and 2. The inside (like the internal construction) of an MRI machine is surprisingly goofy looking

    • Anon

      Are you able to ask about the model of MRI machine being used? I got an MRI in March and the tube wasn’t closed; it was basically a big, thick ring that is open on both ends.

      If it’s a tube, meditation helps me, as does (I hope this isn’t dismissive) reminding myself that MRI fear is more scary than the MRI. You aren’t strapped in; you can leave at any time, even if the machine is running. You would take two scootches to get out, that’s it. Remind yourself that you are in control, even if it doesn’t feel that way.

    • Anon

      I have had numerous MRIs over the years and other than the annoying machine noises, they are not bad. Every one I have had, the tech gives me a warm blanket and talks me through what is going on, alerts me to expect particularly noisy segments, plays background music (or not) at my request, gives instructions if I need to do anything (hold my breath, don’t hold my breath, etc.). Very reminiscent of getting dental x-rays. I especially like the ones where I can basically nap throughout the whole thing.

    • Anonymous

      I have had a brain hemorrhage and colon cancer so the number of MRIs has been crazy. Close your eyes. If you don’t see yourself coming or going it’s much better. Think of somewhere you’ve been a bunch of times, like a favorite vacation spot or the drive to your kids school. Walk through in your mind everything you would see while walking in this place. Or picture yourself in the grocery store—what would you pick up from each shelf in each aisle. Time will go by faster than you realize. Remind yourself that the drugs will do there thing to help.

    • Anononon

      When I had one done many moons ago the techs were able to play a podcast or audiobook from my phone.

    • anon

      You have the anti-anxiety med – that will do it.

      As others recommended, choose what kind of music you’d like to listen to and tell the tech while they are getting you settled. I also liked having a light blanket to make sure I didn’t get cold. And when you are lying down and getting into position, you close your eyes before they even slide you into the machine, and keep them close. You are in the dark, so no reason to open them. Music, eyes closed, dark, anti-anxiety med…. it’s hard not to fall asleep!

      You will be fine.

    • Anon

      I’m not claustrophobic, but if I want to keep my eyes closed, I prefer an actual eye mask or headband (without metal of course) over my eyes vs. just closing them, since then I have to think about keeping them closed (and some of the loud noises are startling and it make it hard not to open one’s eyes randomly).

    • Carrots

      I had one recently and was worried about the claustrophobia part of it. I told the techs I was a little nervous and they would tell me when a new noise was coming so it wouldn’t startle me too much. Towards the end, when I needed more to distract me, I started running my basic multiplication tables in my head (literally, 1×1=1, 1×2=2) and that got me through the last ten minutes or so.

    • oil in houston

      I have had 3 in the past year (sigh) and the last one was in an open MRI and oh my god why did I not know about this before? it’s not possible for all MRI issues, but it made the world of a difference. So if you are severely claustrophobic like I am, inquire. I had to call 4 facilities before I found one, but it was worth it.
      as for closing my eyes, for me, it makes it worse, and yes, the sound can be really bad depending on the machine. What helps me for the traditional MRI is to have the tech talk to me throughout – and to know they can hear me in turn was super reassuring. good luck!

  6. hd

    I got a last minute invitation to the Royal Ascot (famous horse race in England), in one of the fancier enclosures. Is anyone interested in doing some last minute vicarious shopping? What would you wear to a once in a lifetime horse race? Think Kentucky Derby, but fancier – in particular, the dress must have straps which are at least one inch thick, and must come at least to your knees. This is SO outside my wheelhouse, and I am absolutely overthinking it. I am petite, straight sizes.

  7. Autism Insight

    I just caught up on yesterday’s thread about ADHD, ASD, and other neurodivergence and wooof, it certainly reinforces staying in the closet and not telling anyone about my diagnosis. However I’d really like to push back on ‘doing fine’. The effort required to perform normal is astronomical, I literally count the seconds of eye contact, plan laughs, head movements etc to be pleasing, but because of this I’m not actually listening! Its not socially acceptable to listen how my brain listens best, so I put on an elaborate presentation for *you* and *your comfort* then I furiously google things and read through documents to try and figure out the information I missed. Appearing normal is just an act, one that you apparently aren’t perceptive enough to see through. It’s a protection mechanism that makes life even harder than it needs to be. I promise the world won’t end if I’m flipping my silent fidget toy in a conversation and looking at my feet, I might actually absorb the information, but boooo that would be rude.

    • Anon

      It was a thread that touched on overdiagnosis (which can happen with any condition). I didn’t see any posts claiming ADHD isn’t real at all or that people with ADHD should be “in the closet.”

      I’m not sure how I feel about co-opting that term from the gay right movement, though.

      • Anon

        There was definitely a couple posters who downplayed the difficulty of living with ADHD.

        • Anon

          I agree, but for the people who are incredibly high-performing and still taking up the most space in the discourse. I think that’s a valid criticism. Perhaps that dynamic is more present for autism, though.

          • Anon

            But it’s a fashion blog. Of course it will skew more high-functioning. But I can vouch that there are boards all over where it’s all parents because that part of the spectrum often isn’t represented in the first person. FINALLY, high-functioning is really not a great label — some people have high academic functioning and are so impacted in other areas that they need substantial supports. It doesn’t average out or even out. A high support need in any area often means no driving, no job, never leaving the parents’ house and then what do you do when the parents pass on? Your A in art isn’t going to help with that.

          • Anon

            I wouldn’t use the term “high-functioning” for someone who can’t live independently. It’s more for people like a friend I’ve had since kindergarten who has always done pretty well in school (B grades), had lots of friends, is married and in a stable relationship, owns a home, works, drives, travels, and does everything she wants to do. She also runs a successful TikTok where she discusses her adult ADHD diagnosis and posts a lot of memes about it. I simply don’t think she is in the same bucket as a kid who is struggling to complete second grade or an adult with such severe impairments that they’re never going to live alone. If there are any similarities, they are not discernible to me – and this is someone I know VERY well.

          • Anon

            I think people are often far too impressed by the functioning of autistic college students, especially at schools with very elaborate support services or just very nurturing schools. Yes a lot of autistic people can get really good grades in areas of special interest with a lifestyle that revolves around the classroom and the library, where meals are handled, classroom commotion is low, schedules outside of class are flexible, and practical responsibilities and obligations outside of academic achievement are minimal.

            These students do not always achieve independence outside of this environment.

        • Anonymous

          Yes or saying “if you have systems does diagnosis even matter?” YES it does because that’s how I learn new systems and realize personal “failings” are really common with my neurotype.

        • Nesprin

          Indeed- there was a gloss of “if you can mask why do you need supports?” from more than a few posters which was all sorts of obnoxious.

      • Anon

        I’m a parent of an AuDHD girl and I totally get it. There is so much stigma re autism still and having a confirmed diagnosis excludes you from many professions (especially if it is military-related, even if you’d be fine in a civilian version of that — ordering clerk, nursing aide, meteorology, police). Would you hire a quirky kid as a babysitter? Would you hire a kid with autism as a babysitter?

        • Anon

          This is a bit of a sidebar, but I think the military requirements are way too restrictive, not just on this. There are still a lot of diagnoses that will exclude you, including an overweight BMI. And I just don’t really see how that matters for some of the desk roles. I have a chronic condition that really doesn’t impact my life all that much besides requiring a special medication, but it would exclude me from being part of the public health commissioned corps.

          • Anon

            I think the answer is that they know it won’t affect performance, but they don’t want to pay the increased healthcare costs.

          • anon

            It’s necessary to be able to move people from desk roles into more active or demanding environments when the need arises. A military full of people who can’t be deployed misses the point that its core function is defense, not as a jobs program.

          • Seafinch

            Anon at 1:26 is correct. The issue is what is called, “universality of service”. Military members are subject to deploy at a moment’s notice and even people like me who have a desk job 99% of the time need to be able to carry someone injured on their shoulders (that is part of my annual PT test), operate their weapon, and do that regular desk job from an operational theatre. My mom deployed as a civilian travel coordinator and had to do her job in a bomb shelter while under rocket attack and all the logistics that go with that. Traditionally even benign, easily managed medical conditions would breach universality of service because of situations like a former colleague of mine who developed a minor blood disorder that required monthly testing and that cannot be guaranteed when in an operational theatre. Celiac used to breach universality of service because GF food isn’t always available in a war zone.

        • Anonymous

          Would I hire a babysitter who figets? Sure. But I’m really uncomfortable with people who can’t look me in the eye or say hello. I’m sorry. I try to be open minded but I do need some level of politeness. There’s a woman who used to work at my kids after care program who couldn’t smile or say hello when you’d pick up your child. She’d just stare past you and say the word “name”” and hand you the book to sign. I don’t want babysitters like that. Maybe for an autistic parent that’s the dream but that’s just not something I’d be comfortable with.

          • anon

            How do we not know that you aren’t just….. rude? Mean? Ignoring our child at daycare the way you appear to ignore me? Severely depressed and shouldn’t be working with children? Because unfortunately, the way we present ourselves often reflects our behavior. And sometimes behavior has consequences.

            Many of us have disabilities that are unseen.

          • Anon

            Right – if your behavior can be confused with being rude or mean, that’s going to be a problem in many service jobs.

          • Anon

            I feel like people who can’t be open minded about eye contact or smiling must be so sheltered from other cultures. How can you travel or live in a diverse urban setting with such a narrow concept of what etiquette demands?

            Anyway there is research that autistic people make other people uncomfortable and are distrusted even if they smile and say hello and make eye contact. They may be penalized for not doing so, but apparently it’s also rare to be fully persuasive. So matter what the autistic person does, you’re going to be really uncomfortable.

          • Anonymous

            I just don’t think saying hello or smiling in a setting where someone is coming to get their kid is too much. I don’t expect it from strangers on the subway. I expect it from people who seek out and hold jobs that require interpersonal interaction with kids. Fwiw my plumber is not able to do this and at first it made me uncomfortable but once I got to know him I get that he’s not being rude. He’s a great plumber and a person who struggles with interpersonal stuff. I do have different standards for someone working in childcare and I think it might be ablist but I do need you to be somewhat kind or polite to me and my kid.

          • Anon

            If expecting someone to be “somewhat kind of polite to me and my kid” is ableist, then I guess I’m ableist too. But I also argue for a lot of changes in society that I think actually improve access and opportunities that other people disagree with – like working from home.

          • Anon

            I think you are many kinds of -ist if you judge whether people are polite or kind based on things like smiling.

          • Anonymous

            Right. I understand being warm or friendly is a challenge for her but i also don’t want my child to be left alone with people who think being warm or friendly is so hard they shouldn’t have to do it. I kind of feel like we’re kind of through the looking glass here.

          • Anon

            People can be warm and friendly without performing your preferred rituals. I really doubt this means as much to children as it means to you.

          • Anonymous

            If someone doesn’t make eye contact, smile or address you any way and just approaches you and says “name;” that’s rude in the childcare context. Sorry. It’s not quite so rude at the dmv but I also don’t hire those folks to babysit. I’m not sure why saying hello or even “name please” is too much to ask but I can’t imagine what a kid would feel like alone with someone like that.

          • Anon

            I also want the sitters to model certain behavior so my child learns it/ had it reinforced. Looking someone in the eye and saying hello is basic, expected behavior.

          • Anon

            I do not believe that you think that your kid will pick up autistic affect from a caretaker. Do you also carefully protect your children from being around people with foreign accents or who speak English differently so they don’t pick up any habits that go contrary to your basic expectations?

      • TBD

        I’m both queer and neurodivergent, and personally I didn’t have a problem with that term being applied to that situation, but I don’t speak for all.

        • Anonymous

          I’m OP, I’m also queer. People are much more accepting of my sexuality than they are my neurodivergence.

    • Anonymous

      Yup, my adhd kid is 8 and we are working hard on “how other people perceive your behavior” even though she is listening.

      It’s a tough balance because sometimes she can appear so rude- I’ll be talking to her and halfway through the conversation she’ll turn on the tv. Like, what even? She argues that she’s still listening- and she is- but she is still learning. She does it at school too- appears to be completely ignoring the teacher and lesson but when called on knows the answer and has been paying attention. It’s a fine balance between accommodating the stuff she can’t help while also teaching her how people will interpret her behaviors.

      • anon

        Yup, this. As a parent, it’s a fine needle to thread. I know how my kid comes across sometimes, and believe me, we’re working on it. But it also means our kid is subject to a lot more correction and redirection than the average kid, and it’s hard on everyone.

      • Anon

        My niece is so intelligent and has been behaving similarly since she was a baby! She has a late diagnosis of ADD.

    • NaoNao

      As a fellow autist / ND I feel your pain but I’ve also learned that I’m actually more accepted (to a point) when I’m myself and not expending every particle of my being performing normal. I will make an effort like that for interviews or other serious high stakes occasions, but fidget toys are so common now that I think *most* people wouldn’t even blink at a subtle fidget ring or similar. I lean on “charmingly eccentric” which doesn’t always work but my mental health and well being are important too. It’s a give and take.

      The reality is, allistics and autists have different priorities for conversations and this is what many of us miss.

      To the allistic (most of) the point of the conversation is not information flow. I know that’s mind blowing. But it’s not. That alone accounts for a *lot* of what “we” might consider incompetence at work. Because the priority is relationship building and social behavior and reinforcing bonds. It’s also enforcing in and out groups, so when someone is looking at the floor and fiddling with something, yep, that’s an “out-group” behavior and it does come with consequences.

      To the autist, it’s absolutely urgent that information be correct, be complete, be understood, etc. That’s where the disconnect of “well if you want me to remember this, I have to use a fidget toy” comes in.
      I’m telling you they (allistics who are talking to you) don’t care to a point. The connection of looking them in the eye (and maybe using the “fidget” energy to take notes or something) is more important. You can always say “could you jot that down in the shared tool/email/notes/whatever so I can be sure I got all that?”

      There are certain jobs that just aren’t suited to autists and other ND types and those are the high-touch (verbally) and high relationship type. If I have to wear my skin suit to work every single day, it’s a no for me.

    • anon

      Yeah, as a parent of a kid with ADHD, that discussion really ticked me off. People have no idea how much harder neurodivergent folks are working to appear normal. I see how exhausted my kid gets when he has to mask at school for too long, and it’s on a different level than what my neurotypical kid experiences.

      • Anon

        The defensiveness is a little confusing to me. Nobody is saying that ADHD is a hoax or that it doesn’t impact kids who truly have it. But there does seem to be a real discussion to be had about whether overdiagnosis could be affecting kids who may show some symptoms or perhaps even no symptoms, but who are being screened and tested and have a diagnosis. Some of the symptoms are incredibly non-specific, like difficulty paying attention to reading a book, and it seems like literally everybody in my life is reporting that that is a greater challenge than it used to be due to smart phones. For those of you who have gone through the diagnostic process, how were those influences ruled out?

        • Anonymous

          So I don’t have ADHD, I have ASD. However my diagnostic process involved 13 questionnaires, an IQ test, and a 6 hour interview. These assessment methods also extensively assess childhood behavior. Diagnoses are not being handed out willy nilly. Part of the ASD assessment is ruling out ADHD.

          • Anon

            I wrote about my ADHD daughter yesterday, who was diagnosed much later than she should have been because she wasn’t a disruptive kid. She had a screening at school, then at her pediatrician’s office. Then several visits to a behavioral pediatrician / specialist and a number of tests similar to yours.

            It has helped her immensely to have a diagnosis. As I said yesterday, she is hyper organized now as a compensating mechanism, but the big thing is that she really thought she was stupid before. I feel awful that she operated that way for so long.

        • Anon

          The diagnostic process I went through was pretty elaborate (a lengthy interview, an entire afternoon of hours of testing). There was no option to look at my phone.

          I would have said I had no symptoms since I was academically successful. But my results were not even close; I could complete one tenth the work in the same amount of time as an average person without ADHD. And my accuracy was lower. So that may help explain why I was always burning the midnight oil to be academically competitive, while my classmates were in extracurriculars! And how I ended up burning out (in conjunction with epidemiologically linked medical issues).

          • Anon

            I think it’s really important to get that testing in many cases and that it can help a lot of people, but I have to say that my husband went through the whole thing, a full day of testing, and felt that he was misdiagnosed with ADHD because he was suffering from severe depression after his parents both died suddenly. It’s really tricky when it’s not an exact science or when there are any comorbidities. He did take medication for ADHD for a while but observed no difference. However, this was about 10 years ago and maybe things have changed a lot since then.

          • Anon

            I don’t think “it’s all fake because it didn’t work for my husband” is a good take.

          • Anon

            I think ADHD isn’t supposed to be diagnosed unless there are signs that it has been a lifelong thing. It is definitely possible to score positive on the tests from emergent issues (I know sleep disorders can do it, though this is tricky because practically no one with ADHD sleeps normally).

            I’m so sorry your husband went through that; I can’t imagine. Grief can complicate a lot of things.

            I hope someday we have better testing.

        • anon

          When my son went through the diagnostic process, there was an initial screening at the pediatrician’s office. From there, it was an in-person evaluation with a psychiatrist followed by two excrutiatingly long diagnostic questionnaires that we, as parents, had to complete. One was the Vanderbuilt scale and I can’t remember what the other one is called. Then his teachers had to complete a separate Vanderbilt assessment. To get diagnosed with ADHD, impairments must be apparent across multiple settings, like home, school, and activities. Not just in one area.

          In all, this process took more than a month. And I felt very confident based on the fine-tuned results, which are categorized based on how ADHD affects various individuals, that my son indeed had it. He has a combined presentation. But the assessments also went pretty deep into how it affected him: executive functioning, social, etc. I can’t remember all the categories; it’s been about five years ago at this point.

          Based on the hoops we jumped through, it’s hard for me to understand why people are crying “overdiagnosis!” unless people are just going off a pediatrician’s screening and calling it good. I guess that does not mirror my own experience, nor the experience of my friends and family.

          • Anon

            Oh that’s right. I forgot about all the stuff I had to get my daughter’s teachers to do. It really was a time consuming (and expensive!) process.

            Having been through it, it annoys me even more that people glibly self-diagnose with “ADHD” and that several people on here think it’s no big deal.

          • anon

            It was time-consuming and emotionally exhausting. Because at that point, we were trying to help him and failing so hard. Which is also why I get real twitchy with self-diagnosis or concern-trolling about overdiagnosis. The impact on our lives has not been trivial.

          • Anon

            My son was diagnosed with it presenting only at home. He makes very well at school and uses all his energy there. There isn’t some black-and-white diagnostic standard, the interpretation of the evaluator and what you as parents communicate matter a great deal. (And yes we went with a 3-day, $6K, full psych eval).

            ADHD *can* be “diagnosed” and treated by a pediatrician, though. You don’t always have to jump through hoops. We didn’t want to pigeon hole our son even though we had a suspicion so we went through the whole rigamarole.

        • Nesprin

          ADHD diagnoses are not being handed out willy nilly, and honestly it’s a bit disappointing that there’s still this perception.

          ADHD testing for me was multiple hours with a psychiatrist, involved surveys for my parents and teachers (when I was a kid) and my spouse (now) to make sure that my reporting was accurate, involved quantitative go-no-go testing, and screening for other conditions such as trauma that could resemble ADHD.

          And it’s not “difficulty paying attention” its “difficulty paying attention, even when you’re trying to, that’s severe enough to interfere with normal function in 2 or more settings (work, home, social life)”.

        • Anonymous

          I just went thru adhd diagnosis for myself and it’s a matter of degree – when everything is an “always” on a never/sometimes/always scale the pattern makes itself pretty clear.

          For adhd in kids it can be a simpler analysis to get meds (2-pg Vanderbilt questionnaire for parents & teacher) but if you want accommodations it’s going to be much harder to get, probably requiring more testing and diagnostics.

          My 10-year-old just had 3 hours of neuropsych testing today, he’ll have another 3 on Thursday… then I get to pay $3k for it all. And we already know he’s AuDHD.

        • Anon

          Some psychiatrists go off of self reported assessments while others are very diligent. I know 3 people: all had different testing for the same purpose. 2/3 were diagnosed. The results within a test category varied wildly, e.g., above average to less than 1% within the same category. That disparity is a red flag for testers and can lead to a diagnosis.

      • Anonymous

        As the parent of a kid with ADHD, I think overdiagnosis is a problem precisely because it trivializes the struggles of kids with genuine ADHD. I am told that 30% of the kids in my child’s school have IEPs or 504s. What this means is that no 504 gets taken seriously.

        • Anonymous

          How do you propose this ‘overdiagnosis’ is happening? Who is spending thousands of dollars, spending lots of time time navigating the medical system, and apparently masterfully manipulating doctors?

          • Anon

            I personally know someone who did not do all this, got a diagnosis from the ped, and her son is on medication but it’s “not helping”

          • Anonymous

            Exactly. The meds aren’t helping because he doesn’t have ADHD. Meanwhile, his teachers are spending time on his 504 that could be spent on helping kids who actually have ADHD.

          • Anon

            If the meds aren’t helping whatever issue he has, doesn’t he need the extra attention from teachers even more?

            I don’t think he managed to get prescribed meds if there’s no issue to begin with!

          • Anon.

            It is easier to medicate children into behaving rather than provide them with recess and PE during the day. I know that ADHD is real but I also know that foster children are medicated at much higher rates than other children/

          • SC

            My son definitely has ADHD and has gone through the full evaluation process others describe. He’s been medicated for years and requires medication to attend school without being disruptive and even a physical threat in the classroom. But ADHD medications are known for needing a lot of trial and error to get right, and some people with ADHD do not respond to stimulants at all. This past year, my 9-year-old son was doing wonderfully in school until April. Then every pharmacy in the area (and our insurance company’s PBM) was out of Focalin, and he took Adderall instead. While on Adderall, he had to see the principal about 5 times, DH had to pick him up once after a pretty intense meltdown during lunch, and he repeatedly said his medication wasn’t working and he felt like he couldn’t control himself. His doctor added a mood stabilizer to his medications, and it didn’t seem to help. We found Focalin about 10 days before school ended, and everything went back to normal. We have just a few pills left, and we have no idea whether we’ll have access to the correct medication for the next 30 days.

            I’m not saying that your friend’s kid has ADHD. But the medications not helping are a real struggle for people with ADHD, and it doesn’t necessarily negate the diagnosis.

        • Anon

          I think it’s what happens when we design schools and classrooms around cost savings and convenience and then decide overnight that they also need to be inclusive. A lot of kids were not attending school before 1975, and weren’t attending in the same classrooms until the mainstreaming movement. And when a kid needs a 504 for things like “adequate bathroom breaks,” a lot of kids end up with 504s.

        • Nesprin

          Seriously, why is it bad that 30% of kids have an IEP or a 504? If this paperwork is necessary to make sure education is individualized and works for everyone that’s fine by me.

          If the 504’s aren’t being followed that’s a different problem than there are too many 504s

          • Anon

            The problem is that it could take away from core teaching responsibilities and be disruptive to the learning environment. Teaches are already insanely overworked and stressed – they’re being asked to teach, be surrogate parents, be stand-in social workers, and more.

          • Anonymous

            If 30% of people need accommodations to function in school then we need to redesign schools to work for more like 90% or 95% instead of 70%.

          • Anon

            There is not really any reason to believe that schools can be designed to work for 90-95% as opposed to 70%. They never have before. Maybe it could be done with some kind of universal design approach that rebuilt the institution from the ground up. But there’s certainly no one adult occupation that accommodates 90-95% of adults happily.

      • anonshmanon

        I thought that was exactly the point of yesterday’s discussion. There are tons of people who do fine without having to work very hard to appear normal. To some extent everyone has systems in place or had some social rule explicitly explained to them. The question was are these perhaps neurotypical people who are simply learning to function socially (i.e. diagnosing them isn’t useful), or are they non-representative for ADHD but unfortunately those ‘easy’ cases dominate public perception.

        • Anono

          As the mom of an ADHD kid, I will just respond that it’s really none of your effing business.

          • Anon

            I’m surprised there is so much hostility and defensiveness coming out on these very measured threads. Interesting.

          • Anonymous

            ‘measured’ aka being ableist, one of the few types of discrimination that’s still socially acceptable.

          • anon

            These aren’t measured threads, honestly. Some of the language is downright offensive.

          • anonshmanon

            I can see how that was easy to misunderstand because I wrote in the third person. Other people’s individually diagnoses truly are not any of my business! When others armchair-diagnose me, because I like using lists, that is my business. And when the public conversation generally downplays living with ADHD, because this Tiktoker ‘simply’ practiced giving better social cues, and now their career is thriving, and that leads to people with different manifestations of ADHD getting dismissed, that seems wrong.
            Or maybe you just want to rant all over this thread and feel like you are the only person allowed to have a say in this conversation, as the mom of an ADHD kid. Whatever.

          • Anono

            It comes across as “disabled people: aren’t they just imagining it?” Especially when you haven’t been through it yourself and are just an armchair observer. It’s obnoxious.

        • Anon

          I’m with you, anonshmanon. No one has a monopoly on a diagnosis or gets to determine who gets to participate in conversation about things that affect all of us.

        • Nesprin

          I work very very hard to appear neurotypical (‘normal’ is an ableist term in this sort of disability discussion, and easy cases really is insulting to my lived experience). Most people would not recognize what I have to do to function.

          And that’s the point of this discussion: if I work hard to mask, people can assume I need no added support, since after all I’ve got a PhD and a house, so there’s no chance I still experience symptoms or stigma, and we can all discuss whether overdiagnosis is a problem adding to the burden to mask and increasing stigma.

    • Fellow prof

      These are notorious for being racist and sexist. If your uni is unionized, they should be working on removing them from all tenure and promotion decisions.

    • Anon

      One thing I think is interesting is that when I was growing up, ADHD was very much NOT viewed as a disability or being ND. Sure, your brain worked differently and it was harder to do certain things and you needed coping mechanisms, but that was it. Idk, to me having ADHD is like being left handed – it means that I work differently than others and some things are harder so I adapt or I deal with it and that’s that.

      • Anon

        Interesting. In the 90s when I was a kid, around me (in both high and low ranked school system) it was seen as a huge deal and it was pretty unacceptable to go unmedicated. It was very medicalized I guess, more like a condition than being seen as a brain working differently kind of thing.

        • Anon

          Also in the 90s, and I think it was viewed as undisciplined boys who couldn’t sit still. It was a stigma because it was treated as a deficiency in parenting or personality, not a medical condition

      • Anon

        Maybe I’m just older than you, but that was not the case when I was growing up (80s). Sure, there wasn’t talk of ND, but there was special ed, medication and services for kids with ADHD, but it wasn’t as common, making it something that wasn’t as well-accepted and handled by teachers and others.

    • ADHDanon

      As someone with ADHD who was not diagnosed until my 40s, I think it’s great that we are more aware of how ADHD presents differently in different people. I’m a smart, driven person and I was able to compensate for my ADHD (without even knowing I had it) . . . until I couldn’t. And then things started falling apart because working harder to compensate wasn’t enough anymore. Knowing sooner that I had ADHD would have been helpful, because I wouldn’t have spent a few years floundering, wondering why I couldn’t keep my life together when everyone around me could, and dealing with misdiagnoses until we figured out what the problem was. While some of us can, at some times, compensate for our ADHD without meds through extra effort, the mental and emotional load of doing so can be really intense and, at times in life, still not enough.

      I have one kid with an ADHD diagnosis. His pediatrician’s office did an assessment and diagnosed him with depression but not ADHD. We went to a practice that specializes in children’s mental health and behavioral issues and they did a much more thorough assessment and were certain he should be diagnosed before he even finished the assessment. Meds and help building systems that worked for him were invaluable. He no longer takes meds, but at least he knows what to do if it becomes more than he can handle again. I am 95% certain my youngest also has ADHD and the pediatrician’s office once again just declined to diagnose her. Their diagnostic methods are very focused on the hyperactive version and they really don’t seem to understand what inattentive ADHD can look like. My youngest was so frustrated when we left that she was sobbing in the car. I guess my point is that while I’m sure there are places where it’s easy to get a diagnosis, that’s often not the case. For us it took hours of assessment and thousands of dollars to get the diagnosis, plus the time and money involved in ongoing visits and meds, and of course parents who had the resources to advocate for our kids and make that happen.

      • Anon

        I think you’re hitting on an important aspect of this – that sometimes when the pediatrician says there’s nothing wrong, the parents don’t believe it. On the one hand, you know your kids best. On the other, most parents don’t have advanced psychological or medical training. How do we know who to trust? How long do you keep trying to find a doctor who will make the diagnosis?

        • Anon

          Pediatricians aren’t neuropsychologists; I feel they shouldn’t gatekeep access to one this strenuously.

          One thing about ADHD is that it runs really strongly in families. It’s upsetting that someone whose sibling and parent are already diagnosed would be driven to tears by a pediatrician who could easily refer to someone more qualified to assess!

    • Anonymous

      I mean I remember students getting extra time on law school tests and lsats because of these diagnoses back in the Stone Age. Plus prescriptions for study drugs that you could use to cram. The time components of these tests were hugely important it’s a huge help to be able to have extra time. With ranking and percentile being so important I wish my parents would have pushed for me to have those advantages. I get why people do it.

      • Anonymous

        The ‘study drugs’ and extra time aren’t ‘advantages’, at best they level the playing field.

        • Anonymous

          It’s an advantage over having the same abilities without those tools. Most students will improve on time based tests with extra time and access to study drugs. It’s unfair to pretend otherwise.

          • Anonymous

            Kids with ADHD have the same intelligence but not the same processing speed or ability to focus on the right thing as their peers. ADHD drugs don’t give an advantage to kids with ADHD. They don’t even level the playing field. They just make it slightly less tilted. My kid with ADHD can understand complex mathematical concepts easily when she is focused on them, but without medication she can’t listen to her math professor or take notes because she is hyperfocused on the fact that the room is too hot or her sock is wrinkled or whatever. With medication and herculean effort she can follow the lecture and take notes.

    • Anon

      OP, I just hope you have plenty of people in your life with whom you are able to be totally yourself and not mask!

      One of my best friends has ADHD, and she thinks I do too (though I have not yet pursued diagnosis), and one of our things is that we can just talk over each other, interrupt, switch topics abruptly, and go on in great detail about or current weird internet rabbit hole. My now-partner was shocked the first time he spent considerable time with both of us at the extent to which we talk over each other and interrupt. I really pull back on these behaviors with other people, because I know many of them are seen as rude. But being able to talk like this with someone who does not judge me for it AND responds in kind is wonderful. I hope you have people in your life who are the same for you.

      • OP

        I love that you have a friend that you can be yourself with! Unfortunately I don’t really have any friends or family I can unmask with, I have to be the responsible one in my friend and family groups. I think everyone believes the mask and don’t believe I actually struggle. I’ve been pulling away from my family a lot lately because it’s BS the disabled one is always in charge of holiday planning.

  8. Criticism

    Anyone have advice on how to deal with negative feedback, especially when it feels unduly harsh or unfair? I’m in academia (grad/professional school level so not 18 year olds) and experiencing course evals for the first time. Some of the comments are wonderful but others feel like a terrible yelp review—really personal and unkind, to the point of borderline name calling. Some of the criticism is fair, and there are certainly things I will work on. But I am having a hard time shaking off some of what was said, even the parts that I know are completely untrue, unfairly harsh, or just plain nasty.

    • Loofah

      Do you have a mentor you could talk to about this?
      Otherwise – I think it just takes time to learn to let the really nasty stuff roll off your back. I’m sorry your students are cruel.

    • Anon

      It’s hard, especially since these comments become part of your tenure file and annual reviews (if you’re faculty) or job applications (if you’re not, but want to be), so you can’t just completely ignore them. Luckily most faculty members understand that you always get a few comments that are just really out there and look at the overall trend.

      I’ve always done my own evals through the course management system, where I can ask comments specific to my class. I usually get much more helpful feedback from those than from the official ones. I also get a lot more comments that are more representative of the class as a whole, rather than the few disgruntled students who bother to write comments on the official evaluations, and it leaves me with a much better read on how the class went and what I should do to improve, which is how I think teaching evaluations should actually be used (but they mostly fail to be in their current form).

      • Anon

        I should add, I think that I also get good comments from my students because I make it clear that I genuinely want to make the class better. When questions are framed in terms of constructive criticism, it seems like even the ones who didn’t like the class are less inclined to be nasty than when the questions are framed in a way that makes it feel like this is their chance to vent against a person in power in an unfair system.

      • Anon

        Maybe this is field dependent, but student course evals are not part of hiring in my field for jobs at research institutions. They are part of your tenure and promotion file but they matter not at all unless they’re extremely terrible (like an average rating below 2 out of 5) and backed up with factual comments that are concerning.

        • Anon

          It’s extremely variable. I’ve applied for a lot of jobs and it was much more common to be asked for them at jobs at schools with more of a teaching focus, but I got asked for them at some more research intensive schools too. My students are applying for jobs now and are still being asked for them, so it might be slightly less common, but still is definitely a thing at many universities. I agree with the poster below that they shouldn’t be used for that purpose due to all of the well known biases associated with them.

    • Anonymous

      Student course evals are notoriously difficult. Find a friend and talk it out

    • Cb

      Have a friend read them and let you know any thing you need to know and bin the rest. I don’t need to know what 18 year olds think about my accent, body, mannerisms…. And I’m a middle class white woman, my colleagues from more diverse background get much, much worse. I think universities should be screening these, they have a duty of care to staff as well.

      Or blind copy and paste to ChatGPT and have it ID the constructive comments and delete the rest.

      • OP

        Thanks, this is a really good idea. Some of this I don’t need living in my head, and I would be better off if I’d never read it tbh.

    • Anon

      Ugh — I’m in academia here and this is always the thing about course evals. Take what’s useful and forget the rest. I know that’s easier said than done, and I wish I had better tips for shaking off the nastiness. My only reassurance is that you will let this roll off your back more and more quickly as you teach more. The only tip I have is stage the evals rather than just handing them out to remind them that you’re a person and these are professional documents. Here’s my script:

      “I’m going to hand out the evaluations now, and I just want to explain what happens after you fill them out. First, I read them and take them seriously. If you have thoughts on how to improve this class, I’m thrilled to hear them, and same with things that really worked for you. Second, they go into the College’s file to be read by admin for any promotions. So these are circulated among a bunch of people and they’re kept for several years. Does anyone have any questions about the process?”

      Anonymous people can be real d*cks — that goes for course evals, Yelp reviews, etc. That’s their crap, even if it’s lobbied at you. Vent with a friend, take a deep breath, and put them aside.

      • OP

        Thank you! This is helpful and I like the framing. Ours are completed online outside of class, so I don’t hand them out, but I may borrow this script for the day before they become available.

    • Fellow prof

      These are notorious for being racist and sexist. If your uni is unionized, the union should be working on removing them from all tenure and promotion decisions.

      • OP

        Thanks, this is helpful and I will look into this more. I can’t imagine them saying some of these things to a white male professor. (But then again, I would not have imagined anyone saying them at all, so who knows.)

        • Anon

          My spouse is a white male professor and students definitely say all the things to him, too. He does an admirable job of letting awful comments roll off his back like he’s a duck. I think it helps that we spitball ahead of time on just what garbage each of his most disgruntled students might write. The reality is usually less imaginative than the possibilities we come up with.

    • Nesprin

      Course evals can be brutal and useless and are well known to encompass discriminatory biases.

      One of mine that still stings was “Nesprin always looks like I kicked her puppy. One time I tried to hand in homework 3 hours late and she almost didn’t accept it.”

      I’d suggest reading the aggregates first, then look for anything specific that can help you be more effective
      (i.e. “please don’t use a red marker, I’m colorblind”), and set aside all the “i hate your face” type ones to laugh about during drinks with dramatic reading.

      • OP

        Haha, I’d take “looks like I kicked her puppy.” “I chose to ignore this useless, pointless, waste-of-time professor and the class she pretends to teach” is the one that is going around in my head. Though at least that one refrains from colorful language.

        • Anon

          At least you know that in spite of their best attempts at ignoring you, you were effective enough to get free rent in their head!

        • Nesprin

          10/10 for cruel, 0/10 for helpfulness. I give you full blessing to chalk this up to a student having a horrible day.

          In addition to dramatic readings + drinks, it might be worth editing the grammar (ala your hate mail will be graded) to try to get some distance from the comment. (unless you’ve spherical, pointless is an inaccurate description of a person).

  9. Anon

    People are tricky under good circumstances. Give me an (armchair diagnosed by me) PBD / NPD something of that flavor sibling and a looming family funeral and I am just stuck in my grief while dreading the fireworks and daggers to come. Either humor me or remind me that there are worse things, because I need a distraction right now or strength to get on with things.

    • eertmeert

      I am so sorry for your loss. That initial grieving period is intense. My mom and my brother both have some mental health issues, and I was the place they dumped their anger and grief after my dad died. It was rough. I leaned on my husband a lot during that time, and my own behavior wasn’t perfect. But years later we are more ourselves again.
      My thoughts on how to navigate this time, if it sounds like something you could manage:
      I’ve had a lot of not great bosses, but years ago I had one that was worse than all the others combined. After a month or two of frankly bewildered and frustrated suffering, I made a game of it. Each time I dealt with her behavior I got a point. Particularly egregious scenarios got multiple points. Once I made it to a set number of points – 5, 10, etc, I got a treat. It totally changed the experience completely for me.
      After a few weeks I would go into work thinking “Okay Lady, bring it on. Mama wants a pedicure”
      Really what the boss needed was extensive therapy and management training. But this got me through until I could leave the practice.

      Long story short, take back control of how their behavior affects you and you can navigate just about anything. Easier said than done, especially in the fog of grief.

      Again, I am so sorry. This is a terrible time. I hope you are able to find some peace in keeping their memory close. Our loved ones are only a thought away. It isn’t the same, but it is something I use to keep my dad close and it helps me, even 5 years on.

    • anon

      There are worse things! Could you mentally write a movie script and consider your family members as cast members, so their most terrible behavior makes the movie over the top and hilariously awful?

  10. anon

    Graduation gift idea, please! This is for a rising 9th grader, boy. He has worked really hard, and we are super proud of him and want him to feel celebrated. He is interested in debate, golf (but has all of his equipment), video games like fortnight, and just hanging at the mall with his friends. My kids are younger, so I am not yet familiar with the teenage mind, ha.

      • Anon

        That was my reaction too, lol. In my circles a kid would get a $10 gift card for ice cream at the very most.

      • Anon

        It is. They have big graduation ceremonies for 8th graders. I gave my own kids things they’d need for high school as gifts. I don’t think I sent my niblings anything other than my congratulations, though.

        • Anon

          8th grad ceremonies aren’t new. I had one in the 90s. But I’ve never heard of big gifts for 8th grade “grads” – then or now.

          • Anon

            I am from a rural, low income background. I graduated from junior high in 1978. My father did not go to school past 8th grade. It was a big deal for my parents. I got a gift. I also got a new dress for the ceremony. Clearly, my parents could barely afford either. But it was a huge milestone for them. I’m so glad I had parents who were proud of me!

            There are a lot of privileged people on this board. I’m privileged now, but I think it’s good to take a moment to recognize that what you might consider a small accomplishment can be a big deal for other families.

      • Anon

        IME, it depends on the area. In my inner-city high school, 8th grade graduation was huge. But that was because many people knew it would be the last graduation for any of the kids. (The graduation rate at my high school was only like 20%)

        • Anono

          I agree. Exactly how it was in my kids’ school district. Plenty of families celebrated BIG and considering dropout rates for some of the population, YES, celebrate when you can!

        • Seventh Sister

          My kids attend public school in a big city. There are “promotion” celebrations for kindergarten, fifth, and eighth grade. Nice clothes but no caps and gowns, balloons and leis but not huge parties. I’m sort of neutral on the k one (because it’s at the same school as grades 1-5) and loved the fifth grade one (because they go from smaller k-5s to a big middle school so it feels like a “family” celebration). To be honest, I quite liked the 8th grade one because it’s sort of the last one where everyone is “equal” in terms of where they are going for the next step, it’s just a straight celebration for everybody.

          Our high school graduation rate is pretty high, but it’s way more apparent that the very bright kids of all income levels and nearly all of the middle-class kids are off to bigger and better things than finishing high school. While the high school does its level best to highlight and congratulate kids going to community college, going directly into the military, etc., the class and income divides are far more apparent at that age.

      • Anonymous

        (Not OP). It was not a thing where I grew up, but is where I am now. Here, elementary is K-8 and everyone goes to different high schools (both public and private, and many versions of each). So I’ve become less miserly about the 8th grade graduation party with time.

    • Anonymous

      $50 Steam gift card? Lots of dumb purchases you can make in fortnite for skins and so forth.

    • Anonymous

      You’re a good friend or aunt but honestly I wouldn’t give more than 20 bucks for 8th grade graduation even to a good student. It recognizes his day, gives him a few bucks for a few ice creams or buying some junky thing at the mall this summer and that’s that on to the hard work of high school and figuring out what he’ll do in life after HS. The 8th grade ceremonies were historically a big deal because in rural towns often kids were done education in 8th grade as they were then off to help at their parents’ farm. But in this day and age come on there’s years of education to go still and this is NBD even if a kid has worked hard. I mean I laugh at people making such a big deal of PK or K graduation nowadays where the kid gets lunch, cake etc. Sure it’s fun because they’re cute at that age but come on.

      • anon

        Agree. My kid just finished 8th grade. We went to Dairy Queen afterwards. That was it, lol. It is thankfully not a gifting occasion in our area, I guess.

    • Anon

      You know, if this kid had a tough middle school experience I think a small gift is actually very sweet.

    • Anon

      At the risk of sounding like a boomer, not everything is such an accomplishment that needs to be celebrated or rewarded, especially the things you’re just expected to do (like finish 8th grade).

    • Seventh Sister

      I’d give him some cash, or a gift card to a place like Starbucks or Chipotle. They like to be social and it’s nice to have a little extra money at that age.

    • Anon

      My kid is a rising junior and he asked for a pair of fancy sunglasses. I was happy to comply as he is quite low maintenance….eg he didn’t want anything for his birthday last year.

  11. Anon

    Not sure if I am just unloading or looking for suggestions (would take any and all): I am getting divorced and my ex’s attorney is a greedy little pot stirrer. I do not say this lightly; I’m also a lawyer. My attorney is of the view that we know going in what asset division and child custody will look like; sign paperwork and get it done, so that we have less stress, less acrimony, easier coparenting, and more money left at the end. (The man is absolutely overloaded with clients; his former clients sing his praises about how quickly and effectively he works. “I didn’t have to spend three years and a down payment on a house getting this done. Thank you, Mike!”)

    This woman is just the worst. Her client laid, per our court system’s website, is a third of what his is. How does she make her money? Every little thing is a fight.

    She has straight up told him that she’s going to bill big. How is this getting paid for? Adjusting for Ex’s better benefits, I out earn him by about $10k a year after taxes. So I’m the “higher earner” who can be saddled with all attorneys’ fees. I’m like, dude, no, a court is going to *at best* make me pay a bit more, and we will both end up worse off. She wins either way, because she can buy herself a new car.

    Without getting into details, she also lies about the law. I’ve been like, okay I’m not a family law expert but that doesn’t sound right; then my own attorney says she’s full of it. Conveniently, her lies all are things that cause acrimony, division, pain for me, and run up her bills, and actually don’t help ex. She substitutes bullying and flipping out for competent lawyering.

    Thing is, ex is getting screwed and he doesn’t even see it. She wants those billables; she doesn’t care if he spends the next decade fighting with me about custody and eating Ramen because she torched everything. (We actually do effectively coparent, when she isn’t involved.)

      • Anon

        I did talk to him, very calmly, about one particularly egregious thing she did. He listened and didn’t say much, just thanked me for being calm about it.

        I have spoken to him about the attorney’s fees issue. It has landed on deaf ears and I don’t want to make him defensive by continuing to harp on it. We will push hard for mediation.

    • Senior Attorney

      If you have talked to your ex about it and he isn’t inclined to take action, I’m afraid you are in “the only way out is through” territory. I completely feel your pain — my divorce was similar in that my ex’s lawyer felt like he had to litigate every single thing for reasons unknown to me (my theory is he didn’t know me or my attorney, and didn’t understand we was honest and just wanted it to be over), and it was horribly frustrating. But at some point there is nothing you can to do control the behavior of the other actors in this drama.

      • Anon

        Out of curiosity, what actions could Ex take?

        Unfortunately, he’s not an attorney and doesn’t interact with a lot of us. That means that easy side conversations can’t happen – “Hey I need a gut check, is my attorney screwing me over or is my ex-wife full of it?”

        • Senior Attorney

          He could tell his attorney, “hey, my wife and I are pretty much on the same page and we don’t need to fight over every little thing like we’ve been doing. I really need to keep the legal fees down so we will have enough money at the end to take care of our kids.” Or similar.

    • Anon

      I didn’t have to deal with this for my divorce, luckily, but I had an experience of a business negotiation where I was able to undermine a similar attorney in front of their client by writing a letter from principal to principal (with cc’s to the attorneys), basically saying, let’s find a peaceful resolution here, wouldn’t that be so much better for both sides. The thing was, I knew going in that the other principal was the kind of person who would resonate with that argument. In your case, you’re divorcing the other principal, so a lot may hinge on your knowledge of and relationship of with your ex.

      Otherwise, any argument your attorney can help you leverage to push for mediation, as already mentioned. To my mind, there’s a bit of strategic perspective taking involved… like anticipating what the opposing attorney is likely to say to your ex, and how your ex would react, and setting things up to make it more likely your ex agrees to mediation.

      Wishing you the best! Divorce is hard enough without pot-stirrers…

      • Anon

        Thank you – this is all very helpful. Your “principal to principal” strategy can be tweaked, I think.

        Good thoughts re: anticipating her moves. I guess I will just ask myself “what stirs the pot the most or what gets her the most money,” and anticipate that.

    • Anonymous

      Whether he is screwed or not isn’t your concern anymore. You do not get to pick his lawyer and the sooner you accept this the easier it will be. You are literally the last person that should try to intervene in their relationship even if you mean well.

      • Anon

        It is my concern because my legal bills are being run up, too, and we will have a lot less ability to provide for our children because of her shenanigans. It might actually be “sorry kids, you can’t go to college.”

        • Anonymous

          Nope. You don’t get to dictate his choice of attorneys. Try to mediate and de-escalate as much as you can on your side. But the sooner you accept that he is an adult who has made his choice in representation, the smoother (and hopefully faster) it will be. You can’t control what his happening on both sides here, even if the attorney is making choices you don’t agree with. You mean well and it’s frustrating. But you need to step back and realize you’re not driving this thing and the more you try to do that, the greater the likelihood of increased acrimony and cost.

          • Anon

            I still always hate it for children that one sensible parent isn’t enough because the other parent is an adult who makes his own crappy choices. However this doesn’t seem like the hill to die on compared to all the other bad choices the other parent can make.

    • RiskedCredit

      I am reading this entirely differently.

      Your husband picked an attorney that told him upfront she was going to fight him for every penny. I am sorry this is difficult but that’s his choice. This isn’t unusual because he is probably hurt and looking to inflict pain upon you when it would be more productive to get a therapist.

      My next warning is that if he is hurt and using the lawyer to give you a hard time, I would be careful with the quick and simple divorce if you have young or disabled children in the middle. Post divorce, the bar for what is considered acceptable behavior is incredibly low. Before divorce unreasonable behavior will have consequences with child custody and potentially division of assets. If you have younger children or if the children have disabilities I would slow the pace. If you have teens I would keep the pace and force it through even with the higher costs. Afterwards no it won’t necessarily be a nice coparent relationship either.

      Divorce is an incredibly straightforward process. The parties that create drama or allow others to be unreasonable on their behalf should be held accountable. Sadly this isn’t the case and I suggest you let it go now because fighting it is futile. I’ve spent the past two years trying to coparent with my ex husband while he has hired private detectives to follow me, he had a tracker put on my car and he records all interactions involving me including the children’s doctor appointments and coparent therapy appointments. The guy showed up at my workplace to drop off the children’s things when I live in a managed building. HIPAA means nothing to him. He is not capable of being reasonable so parallel parenting it is. My divorce was easy and now it’s really hard to dial him back in the custody agreement despite clear poor parenting choices by him. This is has been hell.

  12. Anon

    Different poster: high school graduation gifts. Great neighborhood kid, former babysitter, going off to college. Cash? And $100? Something other amount?

    For next year: family member who is very poor (parental divorce); has siblings, so I will need to benchmark this for future years. Would $1,000 be out of line? I feel like kid could use it and I have done well enough to feel like I could do that for all siblings also. Kid will likely get Pell Grants, so I want to minimize loans (and not somehow disqualify him / her — should I just say “you have a credit of $1000 with me and let me know when to send you $.”

    • anon

      For the first one, cash. Probably $50-100.

      No idea about the second one. $1,000 is certainly generous but definitely don’t do it unless you’ll be gifting that much to subsequent siblings.

    • Anon

      I think $1000 is too much. I’d do $500. I would feel incredibly awkward if a neighbor gave me any more than that.

    • Anonymous

      50 for neighbor. Cash or if you feel you must get something a gift card – could be Target, could be his campus bookstore wherever he decides to attend. Cash or cash equivalent is most helpful when you are moving, need to set up a dorm room, just realized he didn’t bring a lamp and in need one in your dark dorm room, need to eat a few meals before meal plans kick in etc.

      For family member, I think 1000 is great IF you feel like you can do that for all siblings. Otherwise 500 is also great again for all siblings. I don’t think giving 500 or 1000 in cash disqualifies a student from any kind of grants or anything, but if you’re worried about that give it just before they are leaving for college – i.e. even if they deposit it in their account, all grants and loans for the year are already worked out by that point. YMMV but assuming this is a kid of normal responsibility, I’d like to just give a gift and be done with it. Here’s 1000, you can use it how you want. That means the kid can use it for food if he isn’t getting a meal plan – as meal plans are often pricier that cheap food off campus. He can save it and use it when he gets an internship in a few years and oh look suddenly he needs summer housing in DC or Boston for two months but the internship is one that’ll look great on his resume and oh yeah he also needs to go to a department store and buy a few professional outfits for internship or a suit for interviews. Whatever his needs may be. What I don’t like about saying you have a 1000 credit with me is that the kid has to keep coming back to you and justifying what he needs and why. I feel like that’ll make a kid feel poor and I know if it were me at that age, I wouldn’t have done it – I’d just let that gift go because I’d be embarrassed to explain to you what I needed UNLESS the thing I needed was tied to a really top notch internship or something. But sometimes kids just need to be able to eat, buy groceries, etc. and I wouldn’t want to justify that.

      • anon

        Agree; the “credit” thing would’ve been mortifying to me as a college kid who was not very good (yet) at advocating for herself or asking for anything extra.

      • Anonymous

        Agree with the credit thing. NO way I would have called up anyone at age 18 or 22 and been like so that 1000 gift, I’d like to use 300 of that now because I need a suit for upcoming on campus interviews. First off none of your business. Second off I don’t know you but the adults in my life at that age would’ve been like – 300 that’s too much for a suit, have you looked at JC Penny blah blah. Either give the gift or don’t but don’t act like this kid must be reliant on you.

        I mean one time I was leaving an internship and they wanted to take me out to lunch and somehow everyone’s schedules didn’t align at the end to get to lunch. Because I went to the university right on campus of where the internship was, the boss was like this will be easier in Sept, call us up/email us and we’ll schedule a lunch. Lol I definitely did not even though I liked everyone, no way was I going to be like – so I’d like to claim that free lunch now.

        • Anon

          Op here. I get it. I just read that the FAFSA is excruciating and broken this year and colleges assume all $ in a kid’s bank account is available before need-based aid.

          • Anonymous

            The EFC formula takes 20% of a student’s assets. That $1,000 will get spent before next year’s FAFSA is filled out this fall.

    • Anon

      I would just give them the $1000, I don’t think you need to worry about it disqualifying them from anything and don’t need to put them in the awkward position of having to make withdrawals essentially.

      I got $1,000 as a college graduation gift from an aunt and it was literally life changing because it let me pay a deposit on an apartment. I otherwise would have really been scrambling for a place to live and might have ended up back in my hometown in a different state. It’s a very generous gift and if you can swing it I’m sure would be very appreciated.

    • Anon

      $50 for neighbor.

      Maybe for the relative you offer to take them shopping for their dorm room essentials and/or buy their books for the first year? Not as glamorous of a gift, but immensely helpful.

      • Cat

        I was coming here to suggest this. Easy way to defray expenses and all you have to do is have them pick out what they need and you buy it.

    • Anonymous

      My daughter just graduated from high school. A $20 bill in a card seems to be standard for neighbors and family friends. Maybe a little more for a beloved babysitter.

      For the relative, financial aid is calculated on the basis of the kid’s income and their assets at the time when they fill out the FAFSA each year. If you give them the cash now it will be spent by October when they fill out the FAFSA so it won’t be an asset. Cash gifts are reported as untaxed income, but the FAFSA formula doesn’t count income against the student until a certain threshold.

      $1,000 is a massive gift and I wouldn’t do it unless you are willing to give it with no strings attached and prepared to do the same for the siblings.

  13. Anon

    Where is everyone getting pajama pants these days? I recommended soma cool nights on here many times, but they seem so expensive to me right now. My old ones are quite worn out. I wear a large to extra large if that’s an important piece of information.

  14. Anon

    Does anyone have any recommendations for where I could get pregnancy-friendly outdoor shorts? I used to like Patagonia baggies, but they don’t really fit me that well anymore. I’m definitely looking for something casual for hiking and the beach. Size 12-14.

    • testrun

      Just had a baby and I liked Old Navy’s maternity bike shorts – maybe more for hiking than the beach but I found my thighs rubbing together more while pregnant so I liked bike shorts more than other types of athletic shorts. It looks like they also have some cute linen and running short styles, too.

  15. Anon

    Someone recommended the Everything Is Fine podcast. I am kind of surprised by how… unprofessional they are?? Maybe it’s just the episodes I listened to, but they spend a lot of time talking about how sloppy and unprepared they are. They’ll mention an article or a show and have zero research on the right name for it, or the other host is like “I don’t know what you’re talking about” and then there’s dead air. They also complain a lot. I get that their thing is being off the cuff, but an example of a podcast that does this well IMO is A Thing or Two with Claire and Erica. They FEEL off the cuff, but you can tell there is a lot of planning behind the scenes. They come to the episode with a plan and bursting with topics.

    • Anon

      Yeah, that’s their vibe. It’s not for everyone. I like it because they aren’t scripted and say things without thinking so hard about every word.

      • anon

        +1

        OP, I don’t listen to them when I exercising/taking a walk/using a podcast as a break. It’s for when I want a little mindless, silly chatter and commiseration. And every once in awhile they have an interesting guest.

    • Anon

      I can’t stand podcasts like this.I am trying very hard to listen to “Was I in a Cult?” because the topic is so interesting to me, and it has tons of episodes. But I just can’t get past the two hosts. No one should giggle when discussing such serious topics. Plus, having listened to a couple of episodes, what they consider a cult is pretty laughable. “My Christian ballet company monitored my weight and made me go to church.” Hmmm. Pretty sure that is not a cult.

    • Colette

      This. I listened for a while and had to stop.

      I am so over the “Look at me, I’m such a mess, teehee” schtick. I don’t find it charming.

      I like A thing or two with claire and erica and Bad on paper (non-book shows) for female banter.

      • anon

        I feel the same way about people who tee-hee about adulting. You’re in your 30s; it’s not cute. Be an actual adult and get on with it.

      • Anon

        YES you articulated what I don’t like about them, especially Jen. She puts herself down, but in this “I’m so cute” way that just doesn’t work when you’re 50! She constantly calls herself out as a piece of s— but in this way where it’s like… narcissistic? Like she actually thinks she’s awesome but enjoys calling herself out? I can’t explain it!

        I also think they enable each other a lot. Realized that this vibe just isn’t for me. It’s too bad because I think they do occasionally have amazing discussions about aging, but it’s buried in a lot of mess and toxicity about the beauty and fashion industry.

        • Colette

          I think it’s insecurity where she says that she’s a piece of sh!t and then wants people to jump in and say “no you are not”

          I would love a podcast about life, ambition, work, and family as you age. Makes me sad that this one isn’t better.

          I feel like with 30 minutes of prep time a week and a little bit more confidence this podcast would be great.

          I like Kim’s writing on these topics a lot.

  16. Spending tracker recommendations

    DH and I want to track our spending better. Our HHI is quite high, so honestly we haven’t ever had to track too too much so long as we are saving at the rate we want. But he’s looking at a job change and we want to take a step back and evaluate. Any good recommendations for very easy to implement apps or other tools to use? For reference we both work full time and we have four kids, so needs to be realistic.

    • Anonymous

      Honestly I’m hhi too and the only way I’ve ever been able to do it is by downloading CSV of transactions, sorting by vendor, and then manually totaling by vendor. Some things are hard (Amazon, pharmacy) but for the most part you’ll be able to tell pretty quickly where the $ is going.

      Also start saving more proactively so money is out of your general accounts – when I have to move things around to pay my CC bill I usually tighten my belt.

      • Anon

        Here’s where pivot tables can be helpful. I download a set of transactions to Excel. Save as an XLS file. Sort by Memo, so most transactions get grouped (as the download usually doesn’t include a Vendor). Then do a Pivot Table by Category (bottom left box) and Sum by Amount (bottom right box). You can also add a column for month, so that you can total by month and then by category, to see how much you’re spending there each month.

  17. Anonymous

    Curious if anyone has dealt with anything like this. What do you do if you go work for a small business or even a medium sized company which has really bad health insurance options and you aren’t married so you can’t jump on a spouse’s policy? I know over the years I’ve seen healthcare forms that ask you to list your primary and secondary insurer. Is this the type of situation where you can buy your own policy say through an exchange or privately to act as a secondary insurer? Is this the type of thing insurance brokers can help with – as I know people use them but admittedly IDK what they do or how you compensate them.

    Backstory is that since I graduated law school I’ve only ever had two jobs – NYC biglaw and federal government. NYC biglaw health insurance was pretty standard and there were tons of plans to choose from. Fed government insurance offers fewer plans but amazing prices and coverage. Thing is I can’t stay in fed government forever just for insurance and the jobs that are a good exit for me are no longer biglaw but smaller companies for in house type roles where insurance is whatever the owners want it to be. I know for many 40 year olds it doesn’t matter because they only use it for physicals and mammograms or a problem focused visit every few years. But I have a cardiac thing which is luckily doing ok but requires cardiologist visits twice a year, usually two maybe three cardiac tests per year – all expensive, and a few EKGs per year. I’ve been very lucky all these years to have insurance where I could legit make an appointment and choose to go to an academic health system three states away and the insurers didn’t have to pre authorize where I choose to get care or what the doctors order. I know lots of times people stay in government for these kinds of benefits and I probably would if I had say five or ten years left in my career but I’m having career issues there and want to move on because I legit can’t do this for two plus more decades. Wondering if this hive has any insight.

    • Anon

      I wouldn’t discount the decency of in-house health plans. My plan at a large company was only slightly more expensive than my fed government one and just as good coverage wise. I think you’re right to avoid tiny companies, but most of them won’t have in -house counsel anyway.

      • Anonymous

        This. Most medium sized companies at least offer more than one plan and in your case, I’d look to take on whatever the PPO option is – may be called something now – but the option that specifically does NOT require referrals or prior authorizations. That’ll preserve your ability to get your care at Harvard if that’s the best care for you even if you live in Vermont. Sure this option is typically more expensive but it gives you the flexibility you need. I think unfortunately for people with health issues in this country – including me – you have to budget for this. You pay more in premiums monthly to get the most flexible plan with the biggest network and then when you work for smaller employers you pay more out of pocket for the medical care itself bc the plan likely wouldn’t provide as full coverage as fed govt, BUT you get the care you need. I think you’ll be fine with medium sized and regional employers. It’s super small employers – like five or ten employee shops – that historically present huge insurance headaches because they don’t offer any or they offer one very mediocre high deductible plan that covers nothing and everyone working there is either 25 or has a spouse at a big company so they don’t use the plan.

      • anon

        +2, I’m a former Fed and my in house insurance now is actually better/cheaper than my Fed PPO (and covers my family, which my Fed insurance never did). Granted I’m at a larger company and tech (where coverage is usually better from what I’ve been told) but the jobs are out there.

      • Anonymous

        +2, I’m a former Fed and my in house insurance now is actually better/cheaper than my Fed PPO (and covers my family, which my Fed insurance never did). Granted I’m at a larger company and tech (where coverage is usually better from what I’ve been told) but the jobs are out there.

      • anon

        +1 I’m at a medium sized company with a few hundred employees and my health insurance is better than any offered at the big law firms. You just don’t know until you review the benefits package.

    • Anon

      Sorry to hear about your cardiac issues. It seems like screening for good benefits needs to be part of your job selection process, just like screening for good pay and good prospects should be.

      The state of healthcare in this country is ridiculous. I work in the insurance industry and, don’t tell my bosses/clients, I personally think we are well past due for some sort of basic single payer program.

      • Anonymous

        OP here – thanks. I appreciate how lucky I’ve been with the cardiac thing even though I’m always told I’ll need surgery for it but wow it is expensive to watch over it to make sure the heart is still doing ok. And yes the state of insurance and its tie to work in this country is beyond ridiculous. I legit do not understand why everyone isn’t allowed to purchase the insurance plans that federal government employees have at fed government rates?? Yes that would put an upper limit on insurer profits but let’s not act like insurers are losing money on federal government business, they most certainly are not. It annoys me beyond belief that career wise what I REALLY want and would be good at would be owning my own business – but health insurance and cardiac thing make that both an expensive and risky proposition so here I am toiling away. It’s the American way . . . .

        • Anon

          Does the federal government actually buy insurance or does it self-insure and use the insurance company to administer payments consistent with negotiated terms? I have no idea what the federal government does. I work in state government. My state self-insures, using insurance companies to administer. I would bet 99% of governmental employees in my state have any idea.

          • Anono

            It self insures. Most large employers do. There are reinsurance and insurance plans to protect them from huge surprises but most of it is just a cost of doing business. There’s really no reason from an employer point of view to take out insurance for everyone’s predictable expenses. It’s the unpredictable that drives the excess insurance purchase.

    • Anonymous

      I’m self employed and get mine thru the marketplace every year – it sucks out there. If you can I’d highly recommend getting yourself an HSA which might give you a cushion with future dr visits. I think it’s reasonable to ask your dr what insurance he accepts, and ask if that cardiologist is covered under potential new plans. As long as he’s in network you should be good. If you’re flexible on which doctor I wouldn’t let it stop me from switching jobs. (I’ve also paid out of pocket for some docs, sometimes better than going thru insurance.)

      • Anonymous

        IDK OP’s situation but often with these types of things people can’t be flexible on which doctor. Like if it’s a super specialized cardiac thing, you can’t just go to any cardiology private practice up the road who takes your insurance. It’s possible that only academic health systems deal with it and sure while you can go to different doctors within that system, the entire system must be covered by the insurer. OP I’d say interview and get offers like normal but because you are no longer 25 – the age where most of us just took jobs based on salary – it is perfectly ok post offer to ask to speak to HR regarding insurance. They can tell you the options, approx prices, and you can make sure those options are in network for the health system and doctor you need, and see if the whole thing is financially workable. Once HR tells you what plans – the plan books for every insurer are on their website so you’ll know their rules on prior authorization, how much you pay out of pocket etc.

    • Anonymous

      I have repeatedly turned down jobs because the insurance is bad. No there aren’t any other good options to get the coverage you need.

    • anon

      Yeah, it’s really a problem. I also have a rare medical condition, and know health insurance must be part of your calculus when you are looking at job offers. So when looking at the salary a job is offering, you need to assume that that amount is tempered by needing to choose their best/PPO plan, and make sure it includes the networks of your preferred doctors. So sometimes that means a lower salary may work out better because of better benefits. Hence… government jobs.

      The variation in what people pay for health care is vast.

      Right now I buy my insurance on the marketplace and my costs are very high, and approach $30k a year just for premiums/co-pays etc../specialized meds/uncovered care (out of network doctors etc..), because I don’t qualify for tax credit / subsidies for premiums (income > $58,000). So I am looking for government jobs, particularly ones that offer retiree health benefits, as Medicare doesn’t have great coverage for some of my medication/treatment needs.

      Sometimes there are more important things than your career. Your health, honestly, should be one of those things. Only you know your situation and what your healthcare needs will be.

      Yes, life isn’t fair.

    • anon

      I just switched to my husband’s fed insurance after years of using my own company’s insurance. The premiums for some of the fed plans are REALLY high compared to what I was paying before. Even for almost the same BCBS PPO plan, the premium is so much higher for the feds than what I was paying at my company. Copays are about the same. I don’t think you should assume that the insurance you will get at a company will be unacceptable. Just look for what you can find about benefits before you start interviewing, and then once you have an offer, request the full benefits information to inform your decision.
      You also may need to just brush up on your insurance terminology. Not needing referrals to specialists depends on the type of plan, is it an HMO or a PPO. That can also determine if you have any out of network coverage or not. But that won’t tell you how much you have to pay in premiums every month, how much you have to pay for a copay every time you see a specialist, how much your deductible is, and how much your out of pocket max is.

    • Lexi

      I work at a special district and health insurance is better and cheaper than fed, or local municipality. When I worked for the feds I needed a brand name medication so had to purchase a Kaiser plan at a high price. Suggest looking at the marketplace and breaking down costs. One nonprofit I worked at had a $12,000 healthcare deductible so it pays to review benefits as much as salary.

    • Anon

      I work for a company of 6, and they don’t subsidize a spouse at all, so it would be $1200/mo to add my husband. We purchase insurance for him through the state exchange, which is about $320 for a not-great plan, but he’s generally healthy. They subsidize me 80%.

    • Digby

      If you have a job offer, it’s perfectly reasonable to ask for a copy of the health plan SPD (summary plan description). It won’t answer all questions, but it will tell you a lot. The employer may carve out prescription coverage from medical (so, for example, medical may be provided by Aetna, while prescription is provided by Express Scripts). If they do carve out prescription coverage, you may have to ask for the prescription SPD, too. Again, it won’t answer all questions, but it’s a start.

      If you’re considering offers from two companies, you can ask each for their SBC (summary of benefits and coverage). It’s an 8-page template required by federal law, so it provides a fairly consistent way to compare different health plans. It doesn’t include the premiums that you’ll have to pay, but does provide an overview of deductibles, copays, out-of-pocket maximums, whether you need referrals to see specialists, and at least brief info about the provider network.

      And if you take a specific, expensive drug or biologic, it’s reasonable to ask your recruiter if the drug is covered by the health plan, and if so, what the copay is. The recruiters at my employer get these kinds of questions occasionally and bounce them to me (I’m the benefits manager). We don’t bat an eye at this kind of question. Of course, what’s covered this year may not be covered next year, or at the same copay, but at least you’ll get an idea.

  18. Anon

    What shorts do you love for running? What about for other types of workouts? Bonus if they are working for the curvier among us. Thanks!!

    • Anonymous

      They’re spendy, but I LOVE the Oiselle pocket jogger shorts for running. They’re super comfy, come in three inseam lengths, and the pockets are great.

      • Former Junior Associate

        I’m definitely curvy and also love the pocket joggers. They’ve been durable for me, too–4+ years on some pairs, and not close to wearing out.

    • Anon

      Oiselle and Rabbit.

      I am curvy: my weight lives in my hips and thighs. I’m about 28″ in my waist and 39″ through my hips, to give you numbers.

    • Anon

      Oiselle Long Roga. Spendy, yes, but they last forever. They are the only shorts I’ve been able to wear running and not get any chafing. I’ve worn them at sizes 10 and 12.

    • RiskedCredit

      For running I picked up shorts with a liner by Spider at Costco. They were $10 a pair and they have amazing pockets. Color choices were black and purple. I don’t have issues with chaffing normally and there are no issues with these either. Old navy and Walmart are good for treadmill workouts only as pockets don’t work well for my phone.

      • Anon

        Thanks! I’m going to try the Oiselle shorts but might as well try these too!

  19. KS IT Chick

    I did the thing, times two, yesterday.

    First, I met with an audiologist and ordered hearing aids. I’m fortunate that my employer gives a 25% discount to employees, so the higher end that I want are even closer to affordable.

    Second, since I had taken the day off work anyway, I stopped at Dillard’s and got measured for a new bra. It had been a long time, so I knew that I was overdue. I bought two new ones. I was surprised that I wasn’t as far off as I was expecting. (Old: 42C, new: 40D)

    • Anon

      Go you! I did the thing and renewed my driver’s license yesterday, which required contact with a vision provider. Much less than what KS did, but I am still counting it as a win.

    • Same

      I like these threads because they inspire me to do the thing! I finally scheduled an eye appt. I’m overdue by a year or more.

    • Ses

      Good job! I did the thing and called my doctor for an appointment I’ve been needing for months.
      Then, high on Big Doing Energy, I finished several small work projects.

  20. Anon

    I’ve been on Wegovy the last few weeks and wanted to update the hive. I’m on it because I’m pre-diabetic and medically obese (I don’t feel obese, but because I’m short, my BMI says I am). First, it took about 8 months to find it. Second, the side effects I’m experiencing make me question whether this is all worth it. So far, the worst side effects are massive brain fog, passing gas, and rotten egg burps (omg the burps). I’m hating the brain fog as it makes it difficult to work and I’m in a bad mood all the time from the frustration. On the flip side, I am pretty much never hungry. I always feel full and need to remind myself to eat. I haven’t been on it long enough to know if I’ve really lost weight (I don’t own a scale for *reasons* but I’ll be weighed at my doctors office in a week or so for a check-in). I mainly wanted to update you all on these nasty side effects.

    • Anon

      A few points: The side effects usually (although not always) improve over time. As an example, I had terrible gas and constipation the first month to six weeks but four months in that has mostly gone away.

      You might need to talk to a registered dietician about what you are eating because hard to digest foods are even harder to digest on Wegovy. Also, I know it is hard to eat, but be sure you are eating enough protein and calories because the brain fog and bad mood can be related to your body going into starvation mode.

      Finally, while I know there are people here taking it, you might benefit from one of the social media sites with a lot of people taking it. The Reddit thread for Wegovy is terrible but not useless if you ignore the people asking the same questions over and over and over again. The one for Zepbound is much better and the drugs are similar enough that a lot of the advice is the same. There is also a member only FB group.

      Good luck!

    • Anonymous

      Wow 8 months? I just got an Rx but I may as well have not bothered if I can’t start for 8 months

      • Anon

        I’ve tried getting Wegovy for over a year in a large Northeastern city. No dice thus far.

    • Anon

      The gas and burps are because food isn’t moving through your system quickly enough, so it’s “fermenting” in your system, for lack of a better word. I choose to take two fiber gummies daily to help things move, but you can also try a gente laxative. And take gas-x or similar until your system gets used to it.

      • Anon

        Did you consult your doctor? Fiber makes slow gastric emptying worse, not better. Laxatives are also not typically recommended (prokinetics are).

        • Anon

          Yep. The doc recommended the laxative. I switched to the fiber when I got tired / didn’t think it was good to take a laxative daily. No problems, happy system.

      • Anonymous

        I used to get this on Semaglutide and found some great TikToks on drinking diluted ACV to fix those. Pickle juice also supposedly works.

        But yea it’s slow digestion – Metamucil can make it worse, so can alcohol, edibles, and high fiber foods. Try to give yourself really easy to digest foods if you have a big/fatty meal. Might try Beano before/after too.

        I’m on compounded Tirzepatide now – zero side effects. The scramble to find pharmacies that carry the real stuff wasn’t worth it to me because I’d be paying out of pocket anyway.

    • Anonymous

      It is tough. My cousin has been obsess nearly his entire life. He recently weighed about 450lbs. He’s 45 and has already had a heart attack. I saw him at a wedding last summer and he just looked miserable being outside in the heat. He started on these meds last summer year and is down over 100lbs, more like 125 at this point. I saw him last week d and he’s still really obese, but can move around again. For some people, it is worth it. For others, it’s weighing the pros and cons.

  21. Nina

    What do you do with sentimental cards or things like that? I used to put them on my fridge but I moved to a new apartment where the fridge isn’t magnetic, but also I want a more sleeker solution. I don’t want to put them in a box somewhere because I did like seeing them. I don’t mind something crafty, but don’t need want to frame every card separately for example.

    • Anonnnn

      For holiday cards, I do 2-3 ribbons vertically down the basement door in the kitchen and tape the cards to that!

    • Anecdata

      maybe one of those photo display strings with little alligator clips, on a wall where you’ll see them and enjoy? bonus is they are very easy to swap out

    • Anon

      Do you have a wall in your closet? I used to have a series of framed photographs, along with my and my husband’s college and law school diplomas, hung in my closet. They were up near the ceiling, above the top shelf. We saw them every day, but no one else did.

    • Anon

      I put holiday cards out at holiday time, then I recycle them. I fully expect people to do the same with mine. I think of it as seasonal decor.

      The rest of the sentimental things like that, items I want to hold onto forever, are in a drawer. I don’t need more clutter to remember them. I can always open the drawer.

    • anon

      We have a cork board in our kitchen for cards that I can see while I’m cooking. It makes me smile :)

    • Cat

      Holiday cards – displayed in a basket during the holidays, then recycled
      Birthday cards or other more personal ones? Display on the sideboard for like a week after the birthday, then toss or keep in a shoebox as desired. A few beautiful ones (like the Marcel S. 3D kind) I keep on a corkboard in my office.

    • Anan

      Cards go on our mantel (not sure if that’s an option in your apartment?) and then every so often I go through and remove the older ones and put then in a binder.

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