Suit of the Week: Basler
For busy working women, the suit is often the easiest outfit to throw on in the morning. In general, this feature is not about interview suits for women, which should be as classic and basic as you get — instead, this feature is about the slightly different suit that is fashionable, yet professional.
I first noticed the three button blazer with darts and peplum — which turns out to be the most unusual piece of a fairly standard black suit. It all looks well made, though, and I like the many separates offered, all of which are made from a triacetate/polyester blend; the bottoms are lined in acetate and are machine washable; the blazers are lined in viscose and the care instructions are to dry clean. At this price point I'd put the suit in the same league as Theory and some of the Hugo Boss lines, which surprisingly is a fairly small league — lots below it (Ann Taylor and the like), and lots above it (Armani and the like). There are two blazers (BASLER Three Button Pleated Back Blazer and BASLER Short Two Button Blazer), both $495, two pencil skirts (BASLER 24.5″ Pencil Skirt and BASLER 26″ Pencil Skirt), both $250, and a straight leg pair of pants for $275 (BASLER Diana Pants) and a wide leg for $295 (BASLER Bella Pants). All of the pieces are exclusive to Bloomingdale's; all are available in black, and some are also available in navy, sizes 34-50.
Here are some lower-priced suit separates and a few pieces in plus sizes (blazer, pants, and skirt).
(L-all)
Sales of note for 12.5
- Nordstrom – Cyber Monday Deals Extended, up to 60% off thousands of new markdowns — great deals on Natori, Vince, Theory, Boss, Cole Haan, Tory Burch, Rothy's, and Weitzman, as well as gift ideas like Barefoot Dreams and Parachute — Dyson is new to sale, 16-23% off, and 3x points on beauty purchases.
- Ann Taylor – up to 50% off everything
- Banana Republic Factory – up to 50% off everything + extra 25% off
- Design Within Reach – 25% off sitewide (including reader-favorite office chairs Herman Miller Aeron and Sayl!) (sale extended)
- Eloquii – up to 60% off select styles
- J.Crew – 1200 styles from $20
- J.Crew Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off $100+
- Macy's – Extra 30% off the best brands and 15% off beauty
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off, plus free shipping on everything (and 20% off your first order)
- Steelcase – 25% off sitewide, including reader-favorite office chairs Leap and Gesture (sale extended)
- Talbots – 40% off your entire purchase and free shipping $125+
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Sadly, the plus size options in person are fairly terrible. I just ordered the set and was super disappointed at the quality; it looked almost like a costume (think s3xy secretary). Not good.
Sadly, I’m not surprised. Are other things from eloquii good? I’ve seen a few cute items, but I’m afraid to try them because of the whole online-only thing.
Sigh!
Would have been perfect for my recent Second Circuit argument.
I love the pants! I feel like wide legs are hard to find these days.
Banana Republic Jackson-fit pants are wide-leg. They’re my favorite suit bottoms because of the cut, although they seem to sell out faster and be carried in fewer fabric & color options than the Martin-fit pants (which I find to be terrible and unflattering).
The skirt loooks horribly frumpy.
Nice looking suit. Does anyone own it? I would not wash the lower half while dry-cleaning the top, for fear they’d end up different colors.
Hmph. For a $500 jacket I want at least some natural fibers.
Can anyone tell me about Boden’s fit and sizing? Are their clothes cut like jcrew? And what would comparable sizes be. Thanks!
I find that Boden’s U.S. sizes run about a size smaller than J. Crew’s (meaning go up a size in Boden), and that the sizing is more consistent within the brand. Boden is a curvier cut than J. Crew, but not as curvy as Ann Taylor.
Huh, this was not my experience at all. I ordered three dresses from Boden in my JCrew size and all were wayyyy too big. Like 2 sizes too big. They all had very short waists and were cut very generously through the hip. It may be an issue based on what actual size you are getting. I was ordering a 12. Maybe some of the other posters saying they run small or similar to JCrew wear a smaller size?
Also – I place JCrew on the smaller end of the sizing scale. I wear a 12 in JCrew, but a 10 in BR/AT. I would guess that I would wear a 10 in Boden, but haven’t ordered anything else because their dresses don’t work on long-waisted folk like me.
I love Boden, but in the larger sizes they tend to run large. I’m generally a 14/16 and I take size 14 in bottoms and 12 in tops from Boden. And yes, many dresses are high-waisted, though some are more so than others.
I have a large chest and narrow hips and Boden fits me well so I would guess they run large in the chest and small in the hips. I don’t find them “vanity sized.” I don’t shop at Jcrew much but I wear one size smaller in dresses from BR/AT versus what I wear from Boden. However, I only have 2 or 3 dresses from there so I don’t have much data to report on.
The brands fit differently. J.Crew seems like a slightly “straight” fit, if you will, so that pears may need to take in the waist, but the top and bottom of a dress will be the same size (or what I consider the same size). So, since I’m a size smaller on top than on bottom, I sometimes have to get the top half of J.Crew dresses taken in.
Boden is cut more narrowly through the hips, and more generously through the bust/torso, than J.Crew. So, when I get A-line dresses from Boden, I wear the same size I do in J.Crew, and rely on the A-line to leave room for my hips. One pencil dress I got from Boden (in my usual size), was too narrow through the hips until I lost some weight.
Also, many Boden dresses seem oddly high-waisted on me. Not quite an empire waist, but definitely higher than a normal dress waist. You sometimes have to look closely at the product shots online to see this on the models. Not all their dresses are like this, but many are.
It is so funny, I covet Boden so hard, but I need a high waist and a generous hip. So close yet so far.
I love Boden, but have given up on the dresses. The high waist / narrow hip cut makes me look pregnant (which is bad for 4.5 years postpartum). The shifts are OK but not the more structured ones (so you are all bust / no hips, this may be the brand for you).
That’s funny. I recently ordered a number of dresses from Boden and returned many of them because they fit well on top but were too loose through the hips. In other brands, I typically wear the same sized top & bottom, although occasionally I’ll need to go one size larger size on top than on the bottom.
Most of the waists are quite high – even if marked as “natural waist”.
And don’t forget, Boden publishes all the garment measurements online (recommend using these instead of the body measurements – they like more ease in clothing than I do).
How are you ladies transitioning your outfits for spring? I know it’s not officially spring yet but it’s finally not freezing and sunny out and I’m still wearing my dark winter outfits with tights. I’m ready for some colour but it’s not quite warm enough to stop wearing tights/my lighter weight clothes.
I’m wearing booties instead of knee high boots, switched my cashmere wrap for a lightweight cotton scarf, did a regular coat instead of a puffy coat yesterday and a trench today (it’s 57 in NYC right now) … My plan is to usually just wear some lighter colors (like a white & pink blouse with my black suit) and do as much as I can with accessories. I think if you’re someone who likes to wear skirts/dresses (I am), the tights are probably the hardest part to transition. I have one or two pairs of “sheer tights” from Hue that are slightly less opaque than usual and I like wearing those in the spring. Other than that, pants are probably the better solution, unless you’re willing to put up with stockings, which, save for an interview or the like, I’m not.
Funny, I saw lots of bare legs in midtown Manhattan today, and thought “no bare legs until all the snow melts!”
I’m still in a wool tweed skirt, tights, and boots, but I wore a trenchcoat instead of wool.
I saw a woman in stiletto sandals walking to dinner last night… I tsk-ed at her in my head. To each their own, but I hate having a nice weather day spoilt because I dressed for an even nicer day; much better for me to be in tights and enjoy the temps.
I’ve been pulling out my spring scarves and bringing more springy shoes to change into (since I still have to commute in waterproof boots due to the melting snow). Also bringing out my lighter weight jackets/cardigans and generally going lighter in color. And trying not to buy a thousand pieces of clothing because I’m so inspired to stop wearing sweaters and wool pants!
I commute by car so I’ve switched to wearing flats with some outfits instead of ankle boots and socks. I’m wearing some lighter weight tops rather than heavy sweaters. I have also happily ditched the winter jacket and scarf.
Today was my first bare legged day of the season! Highs in the 70s most of the week in Atlanta, so I was happy to ditch the tights (hopefully for good).
Ooh, another Atlanta commenter! :) Yes, the temps this week have had me out of tights/slacks for the first time in months – now if only we could get some sunshine to go with the warmth it’d be perfect!
I know we’ve discussed this before but I can’t find it right now. What are your favorite office sweaters/blankets/ways of keeping your ankles warm when you aren’t allowed to use your space heater? (Links please, and under $100 would be best!) We apparently only have heat when the outdoor temperature is below 45 degrees. TIA!
Plug in electric blanket. i got mine at CVS but they have them online, too. If I keep it on my lap it keeps me toasty. And uses way less electricity than a space heater so no one has ever noticed i have it.
this is the one i have: http://amzn.com/B000FGDDI0
I have legwarmers. If you buy the dance ones you can get them in a nude color that shouldn’t be too obvious!
We aren’t allowed to have space heaters, but apparently these foot warmers are allowed. I don’t have one right now because I moved to an office that’s warmer after the worst of the cold, but I might ask for one for next winter:
http://www.amazon.com/Cozy-Products-TT-Toasty-Ergonomic/dp/B0013V6PDG
I have that exact foot warmer and it is WONDERFUL!
I use a heating pad, which I got from Walgreens. Although, I do like the idea of the electric blanket!
Just wanted to say thanks for all the DC hotel responses from the morning thread! I had a hectic morning and just checking back, but lots to think about.
Would staying somewhere else like the Washington Hilton be more interesting? Any other areas/hotels to look at?
I think that part of the city is much more lively and closer to all the new restaurants. Hope you have a fun trip!
Thanks!!
Yes, the Hilton is just north of Dupont Circle; there are a lot of other hotels in that area (including a Residence Inn or similar one across the street). Dupont will have a ton more restaurants, both fine dining and cheap eats, and some nightlife options (although I haven’t lived there in a long time and I am now both too old and too busy when I go back to DC to actually go out to the clubs so I can’t say much about the nightlife). There are also great shops in the area (Kramerbooks is the best bookstore/café ever, Secondi — upstairs, across the street from Cosi — is an upscale consignment shop), along with some galleries and the amazing Phillips Collection, http://www.phillipscollection.org/visit.
ETA, Dupont is not close to the Mall and cherry blossom events but it has good Metro access (you would have to change lines, IIRC) and also the circulator bus, I believe.
Okay sold, thank you Jules and Bonnie! I will take another look at that area. I see there’s a Kimpton hotel (Palomar) there too, and I’ve had good experiences with them in the past.
Oh, and nightlife for me at this point is limited to good food and cozy bars so my only goals in terms of location is to be close to both.
yes, TONS of good food and awesome bars in that area. Plus you are only a short bus ride up to Adams Morgan if you want to check out another neighborhood.
I have walked from Dupont to the Tidal Basin before and it wasn’t too bad, if the weather is nice (as in not pouring rain). It is doable, and there are easy buses that go straight down Connecticut to the Mall and you can walk from there.
I stayed at the Palomar several years ago, when it was called something else, and the room was huge. The location is great, better than the Hilton (which is up a hill from the main part of the Dupont neighborhood on Conn. Ave.); it also looks like there’s a Residence Inn next door. This neighborhood has a small supermarket, a large drugstore and tons of restaurants within just a couple of blocks. You will enjoy it!
I’ve always had small rooms at that Palomar. But the neighborhood is nice.
That would be my pick over Capitol Hill. You will be close to restaurants & bars in Dupont, Adams Morgan (if you want to feel young when you get carded, but old when you see who else is in the bar), and U Street. Lots of great restaurant picks.
I’m in DC regularly for work and like staying around Dupont for the reasons mentioned – good access by Metro/walking, decent food, etc. I tend to stay at Kimptons and I really like the Madera. I also like the Topaz. (Btw, love Secondi! Found a couple great items on my last trip including a cashmere suit for $100)
Fwiw I’m a big fan of the Dupont Circle Hotel. I’ve stayed there three times in the last year for both business and leisure and each time had lovely service and nice modern rooms. The bar is a bit of a scene but the rooms are quiet enough, and it’s kind of nice to have the option to get a drink in a place with some life.
Also the Hilton has teeny tiny rooms with very very thin walls. As in, you can hear your neighbors use their bathroom. On both sides. Not recommended unless you get stuck there for a conference.
What would you wear to a “Love Boat” themed party/gala? Not work related, purely social. I’m a size 10/12. Links to suggestions appreciated. I’d like to spend < $200. Thanks!
Something with navy stripes. Possibly this dress: http://www.whitehouseblackmarket.com/store/browse/product.jsp?&productId=570132176&color=1169&CMP=csc_goog_pla&003=9123998&010=sku10330274&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=sku10330274
I might add a captain’s hat. You can get an inexpensive one on amazon.
Thanks, AIMS. My mind went the 70s/jumpsuit route, so interesting to get a nautical idea!
Kat, I think you’re on the Upper East Side, for some reason. If you’re featuring a brand sold by Bloomingdale’s that’s unfamiliar to you, wouldn’t it be great to pop in and check the suit out in person and report back? That would be so valuable to your readers.
That’s something I really like about Cap Hill Style and You Look Fab … firsthand experience with many of the clothes they feature.
(Not sure if I am being unfair here; I know you have two little ones and babysitters don’t come cheap in NYC.)
Kat’s in Brooklyn from what I recall. And even being on the upper east side, it’s not necessarily easy to pop into Bloomie’s. That said, I agree that more personal recommendations would be helpful. I’m much more likely to try something if someone says, “I have this/saw this and it is amazing!” vs. “This looks really great online…”
You know, years ago I *loved* Bloomie’s. I had regular business in the neighborhood and would pop in to shop all the time. Seriously half my wardrobe came from there. But over time – and I know this isn’t just Bloomingdale’s doing this – they’ve moved to a brand boutique layout, and I hate hate hate it. Show me similar clothes of many brands side by side so I can shop, compare, and combine brands into outfits.
/end rant
I also find the layout of keeping brands together annoying. I’d much rather have the same type of clothing from all different brands gathered together, especially because I most frequently go to department stores when I’m shopping for a specific item (new suits, new tops, a bathing suit, etc.).
Does any store not put things in brands anymore? Any recommendations? I’m happy to go there and start spending my dollars. I hate the “brand” shopping–I don’t want to walk all over the store to find if it has what I want!
Macy’s is less brand-shopping but still kind of brand-shopping. But they do have designated sections for suits, dresses, active, loungewear, hosiery, etc.
This is so obnoxious and I hate it. I just want to go in, look at whatever type of thing I want to buy (suits, blouses, jeans, whatever), and get out. None of this “This brand over here, and then that brand over there, and then THIS brand halfway across the store…” nonsense. Blech.
Yay Kat! I love this outfit, but I realy do NOT like anything with Polyester. Dad say’s it makes it look cheep and you SWEAT alot more with Polyester stuff then you do with Cotton or even Wool, tho wool sometime’s itches in the summer.
As for the OP, Kat does NOT come from the Upper East Side—I agree she has stated she is liveing in Brooklyn with kid’s– something I would LOVE to do–Brooklyn is a place where I could STILL be in the city but have a place with a cute littel back yard where I could have my nanny watch them while I went to eat in Park Slope or Brooklyn Hieght’s, that is if I was done workeing for the manageing partner. But to do this, my HUSBAND would have to be makeing at least $950,000 per year or it would NOT work for us. Even then things would be tight.
I wonder if we could have a p’ost on the cost of liveing well in different citie’s. I think a coupel with 2 kid’s in NY can NOT live well for less then $950,000, and even then we would still be crimping for stuff and NOT being abel to live well. Dad disagree’s but he live’s in LI, where he has lived for along time and thing’s have gotten alot more EXPENSIVE over the year’s. Dad also has money from Grandma Leyeh, so he is NOT hurteing. I got $50K from Grandma Leyeh to have a baby, and she is mad that I have NOT concieved yet.
I told her I would have to find a SUITABEL male, and none have shown up. She thought Sheketovits could give her a grandson, but I said that he was so drunk that the kid would be a mess. BTW, he often could not even do sex b/c of his drunkeness. FOOEY on Sheketovits. I did NOT tell Grandma Leyeh about the sex, or about the sheets he ruined either. DOUBEL FOOEY!
Is it worth it to invest in your wardrobe if no one at work cares? I am having major wardrobe angst but I’m not sure if it’s worth it to spend a lot of money to fix the problem.
I started a new job a few months ago that is a step up for me (my first exempt, non-support type of role) and I can (and often do) wear jeans every day. I would like to wear slacks/nice skirts but I fail every time I buy something (wrinkles too fast, bad fit, etc.). I have several nice dresses, but the only layers I have are cardigans that make me look frumpy. Plus, my overall wardrobe is built for mild all-year weather, and I now live someplace with huge variation in weather.
Basically, I have a closet full of nothing to wear (work and weekends). I’m thinking about making an appointment with a personal stylist at Nordstrom, but there is no way I could spend more than $500 (even that is A LOT to me). Any idea how much progress that would get me?
It’s worth if it makes you feel better, and work better, and people appreciate you work and you appreciate your feelings.
A Nordstrom personal stylist appointment is free, so tell them what you are looking for and what your budget is and see if you like anything they pull enough to buy it.
I have a few items that I can count on to be non-frumpy and I keep buying different versions of the same things now because I can count on them. Suggestions: 1) Long sleeve dress. You don’t have to wear a cardigan or blazer over it, and you can wear it all year assuming you work indoors, either with tights or no tights. Add a necklace and watch and you have a styled outfit. 2) straight leg pants and flowy blouse, tucked or untucked. Again, style with a statement necklace and you now look more put together.
Therefore, if I were you, I’d start investing slowly, and with $500, I’d start by buying 2-3 statement necklaces, 2 long sleeve dresses, ankle pants, and 2 flowy blouses. Nordstrom is good, so is Ann Taylor, Banana Republic, Loft, etc to get more for your money.
Hmmm I had your same problem at what sounds like an identical point in my career. My solution — buy 2 pairs (black and navy) lightweight wool slacks from Banana Republic (wait for a 40% off sale and they will be about $60 each). BR has a few different types of fits so try them on and see what the best fit is for you. Alternate the days that you wear the pants (and mix in your dresses) and then hang the pants when you get home so that the creases stay sharp. You should be able to get away with several wears before they get wrinkled (whatever you do, don’t buy cotton pants if you don’t want crazy wrinkles).
While you’re in BR, buy 5 nondescript-looking tops off the sale rack that will look decent under a blazer (should be $10-15 each if you are able to get a 40% off day). Then cruise the sale racks at BR, J. Crew, Talbots and Ann Taylor and look for separate blazers that have a non-suit-like texture/silhouette (tweedy, subtly patterned, belted, etc.). Try to find a blazer or two that also goes with your dresses (shorter, boxier blazers work better with dresses for some reason). If you have the time and patience for it, secondhand stores and thrift stores often have a great blazer selection. Blazers don’t really wear out; the thing to look out for is whether they look dated (which will be obvious to you when you see it). The key here is the blazer. I like cardigans in theory, but most people look sharper and carry themselves with more authority in a blazer.
Keep the colors subtle and neutral so that everything pretty much matches with everything else (lots of dark colors if you look best in darks or lots of pale neutrals if you look best in lighter colors). For example, if you tend to prefer wearing lighter colors, you could buy light gray pants instead of black/navy. Then all you need is a simple, nice-looking handbag (light or dark) and simple, classic small earrings and a necklace.
The end result is that you look consistently sharp but that your clothes don’t stand out in and of themselves so you can get away with having a relatively small wardrobe. This works even better if you also get down a 5-10 min makeup routine that makes you come off as “polished” to someone meeting you for the first time. If you apply a little foundation or pressed powder to your cheeks/chin/nose to even out your skin color, add eyeliner and mascara only to your top lashes, and then a little blush, that takes about 5-7 minutes and makes a big difference in how “put together” people will think you look. Add in a simple updo (CapHillStyle has some good ones; the Gibson roll is great) that you wear every day and can do in your sleep, or a shorter haircut that styles itself, and you will consistently look and feel like a bada$$.
And to answer your original question, it’s worth it to invest the time and effort (and enough money to buy from stores like BR and Ann Taylor vs. H&M and Old Navy). I can tell you from experience that, even if you feel like no one at work cares, YOU will feel differently (you’ll feel better about yourself and project more authority and competence) and people will treat you differently, however subtly. Good luck and let me know if you have any logistical questions. This is totally something that I get excited about.
Adding onto L’s very good suggestions, look out for good suiting materials at BR/jcrew/AT, etc. Every time I try to give non-tropical wool fabric a try, they look frumpy after a year or two whereas my tropical wool is only giving up after about 3.5 years of heavy use and rotation.
That is some of the best fashion advice I have ever read!
L, you give great advice!
I agree this is great advice, except that blazers do eventually wear out. If buying second-hand, it is a good idea to check the underside of the sleeves and the elbows to make sure they are not too shiny or worn. Blazers will also wear out if they have been drycleaned too many times, particularly if they are made of synthetic or blended fabrics.
Also, I’ve used Nordstrom’s personal stylists and, while they’re fantastic, you are paying for the service in that you will end up paying full-price for clothes (even if they are conscious of your budget). You’ll get a lot more for your money if you stick to buying Banana Republic, Ann Taylor, J. Crew and Talbots on sale. I do love Nordstrom for nice work dresses that go day-to-evening, but I watch the items I’m interested in online and wait until they go on sale. Not that you shouldn’t pay full-price if that’s in your budget, but if you’re looking to revamp your wardrobe under $500, you’re going to want a lot more pieces than you can get at Nordstrom.
Ann Taylor will also do styling appointments at no charge, and they can order what’s not in their store for you if you want – big help once you know your sizes and what styles/cuts of theirs work for you
+1 to BR, AT, and Loft. Don’t leave out old reliable Macy’s either; find the Macy’s in the highest-end area near you and scour the clearance rack in the women’s suiting department. I’ve found shells, blazers, separates, and dresses for 75% off, and then used a coupon on top of that. Also, look for brands like Bar III for fun jackets.
It’s also worth it to check out H&M for tops and fun jackets/blazers.
Macy’s also has personal stylist services
+1 to the Macy’s stylist – who also made certain that I received every discount they were applying that day (you know, the usual WOW discount, plus a discount on items that were on sale…)
Thanks, all, for the advice! Sounds like I’ll get more bang for the buck doing the legwork myself. I had kind of preemptively ruled out Loft, BR etc. because of quality issues I’ve had in the past, but then I wildly swung much cheaper, and then the Nordstrom idea was a swing toward much more expensive… I think I just need to pace myself and shop smarter.
Also, thanks for the responses about is it worth it. I definitely am sick of feeling dowdy but I am terrible at spending money so I was also feeling guilty about being new clothes. Sigh – clothes/shopping is hard!
Could use some thoughts on dual-career family stuff. My husband and I work very similar jobs at similar organizations. Our pay is almost exactly the same (less than a 5% difference). We have a small child. My problem is that my husband routinely works late, sometimes very late (11:00pm-ish). We sort of off-set our schedules so I go in a little earlier and come home earlier to cover childcare. But since I’m the one who needs to be home in the evening, he often feels free to work as late as he likes. Then he feels like he needs to unwind when he gets home, meaning he doesn’t get to bed until 1:00. After doing this a few nights, he’s exhausted and on the weekend, I get stuck with all the childcare because he’s tired. If I point out that I’ve been on kid duty every night and am now on weekend kid duty solo, he gets upset and says that it’s not like he was out having fun all those evenings. He already tends to sleep in on the weekends (until 9:00 or so), and I’m the one who gets up with kiddo on weekdays, too, meaning I never ever never get to sleep past 6:00am. I also never really get to work late. True, I can log some more time after the kid’s in bed, but while we had talked about how one of us would put our son to bed while the other started dinner, in reality he’s never home in time to do either. So I get home (we have a nanny), play with kid for a bit, put him to bed, then come downstairs and clean up anything the nanny wasn’t able to get to, start dinner (the nanny does a little of this, but our son is a toddler and needs a LOT of her attention) and maybe when I’m 80% done with dinner, my husband will walk in the door. After dinner, he sometimes helps clean up, but sometimes begs off saying he’s tired or he has more work to do. Only after all of that can I finally sit down and get work done. But by then I’m wiped and I have only about 90 min until bedtime.
I think my two issues are (1) I don’t get why he has so much more work than I have. And, honestly, I think it’s likely he futzes (sp?) around a lot of the day then finally gets down to work mid-afternoon. I also think he doesn’t push back at work at all because he thinks men get penalized more for setting boundaries to be available to family than women do. (2) He seems to think working at work is harder than working at home. He also seems to think that working hard during the week entitles him to X amount of rest on the weekend when, honestly, being grown ups with a family means NO ONE gets as much rest as they need. I feel like I’m being penalized for being efficient at work. Because I get my work done during the day I then have to also tackle all the household stuff (I also plan our meals, order the groceries, clean out the fridge, do the laundry, keep track of what our son needs, deal with all things nanny, empty the dishwasher in the morning, feed the dog, prep our son’s food, get up with our son if he wakes up at night, tidy the house, spot clean between maid visits, and handle the maid service.)
I feel resentful but whenever I bring any of this up, my husband says I’m acting like a martyr, I don’t ask for help, or I’m accusing him of being a terrible husband/father. Some of the stuff seems to obvious to me I don’t understand why I need to ask — someone needs to get our son up every morning, change his diaper, change him into clothes, feed him breakfast, and keep an eye on him while he plays. Laundry? Cooking? I’m not doing these things behind a closed door. When I ask for help, it’s either a one-time thing, or he acts like he’s doing me a huge favor. He also tells me that when he does things, I tell him he’s not doing them right. I very consciously do NOT do this. He sometimes makes assumptions about how women “are” and then puts them on me.
I’m sure several of you have wonderful SOs who proactively pitch in with everything, but I know not every one does. I have several friends, none of whom are pushovers who have similar problems. Some of it I think is being overly capable. But I don’t know what to do. I hate feeling resentful. I don’t think he’s a bad person or a bad father. I think he’s being an unthoughtful husband. But I’m not sure what I can say that would help.
You obviously need to have a conversation about this, but I know that even that is hard when you’re ALWAYS in the weeds as a family just getting things done. I have found that my husband is less likely to deal with the one-off things or the stuff that involves more discretion (e.g., grocery shopping beyond grabbing milk and bananas). It has become his job to handle the dishes, laundry, and, to a large extent, picking up the toys at the end of the day, i.e., the no-brainer things. And I refuse to ever feel guilty about not washing a dish because I do other stuff. And it’s easier because we don’t need to have a conversation about it over and over. Just one way.
Are you me? Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. On one hand, I’m sick of fighting over things being “fair”, on the other hand I don’t want to be a doormat. I think there’s a balance, I just don’t know what it is.
Some possible solutions – have you ever tried saying that you are tired, and you are taking a nap for x hour(s)? Or scheduling an exercise class on the weekend that you will not skip? Can you afford maid service more often? Can you afford more delivery dinners? Can you (both) come up with some tasks that he is responsible for alone (eg, taking out the garbage, grocery shopping, doing the dishes after dinner every night)? The key is the follow through both for him and you.
Sometimes I think the solution is just to stop being so nice…I’m not saying be rude or argumentative, but just maybe stop jumping in and solving everything yourself. Easier said than done – I realize I am offering advice and going through the same issues.
Somebody once told me that it will NEVER be 50/50, so don’t focus on that goal. Focus on carving out some time for yourself, maybe that will be enough to make the rest of it more palatable.
I think you need to tell him “I need help” without assigning blame or guilt. You have a lot on your plate, and regardless how he spends his time during the day, you need to make very specific requests without micro-mangaing.
I found that handing a whole responsibility over to my husband got him to own it. He handles the bills. Period. He is responsible for dinner clean up. Period. Sunday mornings are “Daddy time”. Period. (Those are our specific examples. Perhaps you can talk with your husband about what he feels comfortable/confident handling.)
I also found with my husband that he didn’t know how to help, and so avoided it. After we had calm discussions about what needed doing, what the “requirements” were (especially related to baby, i.e. “dressed” means onesie, socks, pants and sweater if its cold, baby get 6 oz of milk first thing in the morning), and letting the rest go (so they watch soccer on Sunday mornings while playing and having bottles, so what?) he was able to put his own spin on things, and relaxed more about these chores.
I agree with HM 100%. I’m beyond this stage, but my husband was exactly as you describe, and I became VERY resentful that his job was somehow more important than mine. I’d caution against the outsourcing in this situation since that allows him to get off the hook completely. As you describe, being an adult means you have responsibilities at home,no matter how busy your job is (unless a temporary situation or biglaw golden handcuffs, I suppose). We were outside of metro NY so people went home at normal hours, but not my SO. After some lengthy period of resentment, and many discussions, (and quite frankly, a somewhat rocky marriage that we both wanted to save), he now does all the “outside” stuff-yard, cars, house etc, plus all the household cleaning (including bathrooms!). I do the cooking, laundry and other clean up. I also do all the bills and taxes. My stuff may be more traditionally “feminine” but it’s palatable to me (and I never have to clean a toilet!). We outsource some stuff but it’s half “my work” and some of “his work”. He now makes more than me but we have a very do-able allocation of work. And yes, if he’s super busy at work, I absolutely “cover” for him. But not for months on end.
no advice but I’m really interested to hear what others say. I bet that, although it is totally unacceptable, it is quite common.
I have heard virtually every woman I know talk about her husband this way. I’d also guess that it’s very common.
Is there any chance your husband has ADD? The only people I’ve ever seen work that late on a regular basis are people who need a lot of time to settle down to work. Maybe he needs to see a doctor?
That being said, the situation is unacceptable. If talking isn’t working, start doing only that which is minimally required. If that means your clothes and the kid’s clothes are laundered, but your husband’s aren’t, too bad. And I agree with the idea that you need to schedule time for yourself and let your husband know that the kid is all his for that time. It can’t all fall to you.
I think there is a wee bit of truth that men are judged differently than women for leaving work for childcare duties. It is totally unfair and it absolutely needs to change and won’t change until more men do it. However, I get why more men are afraid to be the first.
I’ve heard older male colleagues scoff at paternity leave, noting that they never got it. I’ve also heard a few comments about a coworker who promptly leaves at 5:30 every night to relieve his wife of kid duty. The comments were along the lines of “must be nice.”
Now that I think about it – they aren’t judged differently. They are judged the same. Everyone that leaves work before their peers to take care of kids is unfortunately judged by some people.
Actually, the research I’ve seen is exactly the opposite. Men are viewed more favorably than women when they seek flexible work arrangements, leave, or other accommodations to care for children. http://phys.org/news/2014-08-men-viewed-favorably-women-work-life.html
I don’t have kids, but I also find that having specifically defined chores helps with making sure both parties are contributing to the care of the household. I always load the dishwasher, he always unloads it. If any dishes needs washed by hand, that’s his job. He always empties the garbage, I always pay the bills. We each wash our own clothes (sometimes I’ll offer to do his if he’ll carry his hamper down to the basement laundry room by x time when I plan to start my wash). I wash the household laundry (sheets, towels, etc.). He always mows the lawn. Other things, we both do but one of us tends to do it more often. We both grocery shop, but he tends to go frequently and buy small amounts of perishable food while I tend go less often and stock up on non-perishable items, including food, toiletries and cleaning products. I tend to straighten up the house far more often that he does (and he’s messier), but sometimes that means I put my things away while gathering all his clutter into a stack on or near his dresser. I generally shovel snow, but sometimes he does. Etc., etc., etc. Some of these things happened naturally, while others were solutions reached after a conversation because one of us wasn’t happy with the status quo.
Having specific “jobs” really helped my husband start sharing equally in the work. And same thing–some we had express conversations about, some it just worked out that way. Granted, I can’t even count the number of times we fought about me not feeling appreciated/carrying the brunt of the life-work. I don’t know why he eventually “got it,”but I do specifically remember the conversation we had after which things changed. I likened our marriage to being on a team. Michael Jordan was only so good because he had awesome Scottie Pippen, and they had each others’ backs. Because they worked as a team, they were both awesome and the Bulls won everything. Now we joke around about it (he calls me Pippen and I call him Jordan) but he seriously now understands that it’s a partnership and treats it like that.
The only working woman I know who doesn’t feel this way has a husband who is a stay-home dad. She felt the same way until she convinced him to quit his job. Now I think he resents her.
I think part of it is being overly capable, but another part is biological. No matter how equitable a marriage you try to have, the mom is the one whose body is dedicated to the child for 9 months of pregnancy and however many months of nursing, so the pattern of mom scheduling and keeping all child-related appointments (OB, lactation consultant) is set early on. The pattern becomes more established when mom is the only one who gets (or takes) parental leave, so she has to handle all the pediatrician appointments and find child care (because she is the one who can’t go back to work until child care is in place). I also find that my husband, who was raised by a stay-home mom, had a very easy time adapting to the idea that women can–and, he firmly believes, should–work outside the home, but a much harder time accepting the reciprocal implications for men. He enjoys being able to brag about all the cool stuff I do at work but is almost embarrassed to admit what he does around the house.
Like others, I have found that making my husband fully responsible for certain tasks helps (although he still doesn’t do nearly 50% of the work), as does scheduling a non-negotiable weekly exercise class. I am certain that hiring a nanny and/or a housekeeper would probably solve 95% of my remaining problems (husband does not agree that these are a financial priority so we don’t have either), but OP already has this type of help.
Practical suggestion: Split up the drop-offs and pick-ups. Explain that on Tuesdays and Thursdays, you need to work late/have to go to yoga/whatever. On those days, you will handle drop-off and he can go to work whenever he likes, but he will handle pick-up. That means he has to go home at 6 to meet the nanny. Then just do it! For us, this works better than a schedule where I always do drop-off and he always does pick-up (or vice versa).
I generally do drop off and my husband does pick-up. At least once a week, we switch so the other person can get in early or work late or whatever. But you have to be non-apologetic about setting your schedule.
“(I also plan our meals, order the groceries, clean out the fridge, do the laundry, keep track of what our son needs, deal with all things nanny, empty the dishwasher in the morning, feed the dog, prep our son’s food, get up with our son if he wakes up at night, tidy the house, spot clean between maid visits, and handle the maid service.)”
This won’t solve all of your problems but there are a bunch of things in this list I expect my nanny of two toddlers to handle – feeding dogs, emptying the dishwasher, anything kid food related, basic house tidying are all things that my nanny does without me even having to ask. Your husband definitely needs to contribute more but you also need to delegate more. I know that I used to have a hard time with this (classic control issues). Maybe think about whether you need to re-think your own desire to control (and maybe you don’t have those issues but it’s worth thinking about).
Ultimately, I haven’t ever met a husband who contributes equally when small kids are involved. I’d pick one battle at a time rather than try to say “this isn’t fair.” For me, this would mean that instead of sleeping in on the weekends, he should plan to take a nap during the toddler’s nap time (which perhaps gives you a chance to get out of the house for an hour or so and run errands, exercise or just be alone).
I am not good at working with others who don’t have the same motivation and commitment that I have, personally or in my career. My (ex) husband did not pull his weight in regard to family/household obligations. I left him 4 1/2 years ago because of that issue. Could not be happier! It is lovely, I mean lovely, being responsible for myself, children, career, house, with no one to coordinate about what needs to be done. Ah, freedom :).
Not quite in the same situation, but with his commute, my husband works 12 hour days, and because I have a government job (9 hour days) I am tasked with with most of the childcare and household tasks. I also became resentful for a while. Now, we have split up the tasks. Even though I still do the bulk, he does what he is supposed to do (I make dinner, he does dishes and cleans up the kitchen). A couple of days a week, I exercise after dinner and he is “on duty.” I think if you schedule things and give him tasks, he can’t back out, at least not easily.
I don’t have time to write a full reply but two suggestions: Split the weekend- he gets to sleep in on Saturday, you get to sleep in on Sunday. Second, fix this before your child gets old enough to see whats going on and how you’re (not) dealing with it (do as I say, not as I did). If you have to go “on strike” by just doing the bare minimum and only – for example – washing your laundry and the kid’s, it is better to do it before the kid(s) can watch.
I’m going to be in Raleigh, North Carolina for a couple days at the end of the month. Anything I absolutely must do (or eat)?
What do people think of the movement to not read books by white men for a year?
Honestly, I haven’t read much fiction written by men since college. I do read a lot of nonfiction and that is more likely to have male authors. For fiction, I probably read 90% female authors and for nonfiction, 50%.
I am kind of the same with movies. If a movie poster doesn’t have a female actress prominently displayed, I am not really interested in watching it (but I do not refuse to watch it). I quickly lose interest in TV shows that don’t have strong female characters.
I also tend to read a lot written by women. I just checked my goodreads and of the 9 books I have read so far this year, 8 were written by women. I think it’s nice to say you want to focus on reading more books by women or more books by diverse authors, but it seems a little silly to say you won’t read books by white men. I’m not sure what that accomplishes except that you miss out on some good books.
I agree with this. Out of curiosity, I looked at the books I’ve read in the last 12 months (thanks, goodreads) and this is the breakdown:
Men 12
Women 20
White 19
Non-white 9
Race unknown 14
I guessed on a few, so the breakdown may be slightly different, but this is largely accurate.
I think you do it to make you recognize who is writing the books – like how people stop shopping for a month to realize all the mindless shopping they normally do. I also primarily read books written by women but rarely read books written by people of color. I thought this was a useful list: http://www.buzzfeed.com/isaacfitzgerald/these-writers-are-not-to-be-missed
I didn’t know this was a thing. I just looked back at my list and I’ve read 17 books this year, split about 50/50 men and women. I have 2 favorite fiction writers who publish regularly in series that I’ve read in their entirety and they are both men. One of them is a white man and I don’t know about the other guy offhand. I’ll read every book they put out. I just got into Gillian Flynn and am reading her 3rd book right now. I really like her style so I’ll likely read anything she writes.
I read a lot and just read whatever I find interesting and compelling, usually without regard for who the author is. My nonfiction reading probably is less diverse than my fiction reading. I’ve never given it much thought but will probably pay more attention now. I don’t know that it will change what I read, but it’s probably worth at least being aware of.
Honestly, a little offensive. It treats all white men as having the same experience and perspective regardless of their nationality, socioeconomic background and the time in which they lived. I understand choosing to read only French authors, for example, in order to get a fresher perspective on France. This is closer to choosing not to read any books by French authors because of France’s colonialist history.
Last 12 months: I’ve read 59 books. 30 were written by women, and of the male authors, 6 are not white. Several of the female authors are also not white. Interesting thing to think about!
I know these movements come from good intentions, but I really can’t get on board. How does my refusal to read books written by men actually help women in any tangible way? I can see it harming male authors, while not necessarily helping female authors. Isn’t the easy non-discriminatory solution here just to ignore who wrote the book and read whatever sounds interesting, regardless of the author’s gender? And I don’t even know how you guys know what race the author is, absent doing Internet research or something. Looking at my bookshelf now, I couldn’t tell you the race of 4/5 of the authors represented.
Anyway, you can pry Terry Pratchett’s books from my cold dead hands.
I have a lot I want to say about this but I’ll just leave it at: the point is to do it for one year, not forever. And the hope is that it will just make you more aware of the perspectives you are hearing and whose books you are reading that might stay with you after the year is over and you go back to reading whatever you want. Most people only read 20 books a year so it’s not that much. And maybe you’ll discover some new women authors you wouldn’t have found otherwise. I agree that it’s kind of like a shopping ban and more aimed at people who don’t really think about the authors they read. I don’t think it hurts male authors.
Terry Pratchett!!! I was about to say, a majority of the books I’ve read recently are by women (Mary Roach is an amazing science writer, and I really enjoyed Juliet Grey’s Marie Antoinette series – both highly recommended) but yes, you can come for my Pratchett collection over my dead body.
There are some books that I have bought recently by white men, so I will read them. But I think the idea and the visibility it has gotten is a good idea. It is not merely an idea of reading the book with the best synopsis or book review — the whole problem is that the way in which the trendsetters/literary establishment determines the books it will promote and review is not gender- or race-neutral. If you rely on the NYT or the Paris Review or whatever other mainstream literature source, the default is white men. So being conscious of that, even if you choose not to enact an entire ban, is a good thing.
Most of my reading material is romances and mysteries, so this isn’t much of a problem for me. :-)
Is it weird to go on a LinkedIn friending spree in your last week of employment? I’m not a big LinkedIn user and I guess most of my colleagues aren’t either because I’m not “connected” to most of them, but I would like to stay at least minimally in touch.
Isn’t this par for the course? Every time I get a LinkedIn request I assume it’s because someone is planning to search for a new job or leave the company.
Really? I hope that’s not what everyone thinks. I connect with people when I meet them and think they might be a good contact for my line of work generally.
Not weird to go on a spree and not weird to link when not job-searching. It is weird to go on a spree when not job searching – but since you’re switching jobs it makes sense.
Does anyone have any suggestions regarding where to find this dress?
http://dressed.so/post/view/54debd524be0c
Eureka I think I just found a lookalike!
http://www.6pm.com/french-connection-fast-summer-space-71bya-space-dye-black
Thanks, very nice of you to go on a scavenger hunt for a stranger :)
Not sure if you’re still checking comments, but I just saw this – I’m pretty sure that dress was sold by Express awhile back.
Thanks for the suit tip; I find it hard to find summer weight suiting in court ok colors. I live in Lafayette 148 suiting the rest of the year, but their summer suiting is always some version of beige. I’ll give Basler a try.