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Something that everyone seems to be talking about is the concept of the “f$*@#$ off fund” — the original piece in Billfold went viral, and I've seen it popping up everywhere in conversation from FreeKesha stories to the discussion of that Yelp employee who got fired after complaining about her salary publicly (here's Ask a Manager's brief link to get you started on that drama).
For those of you who haven't yet read it, in the article, a hypothetical woman has to stay with an abusive boyfriend and a sexually aggressive boss because she doesn't have the money to leave or quit.
Here's the core of the article, but note two things: a) the original is worthy of the 6 minutes Billfold helpfully tells us it will take to read it, and b) warning: language ahead.
If any man ever hit you, if anyone ever sexually harassed you, you’d tell him to fuck right off. You want to be, no, you will be the kind of woman who can tell anyone to fuck off if a fuck off is deserved, so naturally you start a Fuck Off Fund.
To build this account, you keep living like you lived as a broke student. Drive the decade-old Civic even after the fender falls off. Buy the thrift store clothes. You waitress on Saturdays, even though you work Monday through Friday. You make do with the garage sale coffee table. It’s hard, your loan payments suck, but you make girl’s night an at-home thing and do tacos potluck.
So let's discuss: ladies, do you have an F-off fund? Is it separate from your emergency fund? Do you keep it a secret from your partner? Would you touch your retirement funds if the situation required it? What advice would you give to younger women starting from zero?
For my $.02 – call me a capitalist, but I've always appreciated a correlation between money and freedom, and have done what it took to save money even on a low salary, including (in my early 20s) bringing for lunch a raw potato and a slice of American cheese (we had a microwave at the office).
Having money in the bank — not tied up in assets like cars or houses — means you can make the best career choice for you (and leave a bad situation, or take your time to find the right situation), and, yes, leave a bad romantic situation.
Psst: In honor of this series' original title, Tales from the Wallet — here's a wallet we love!
I've talked before about how my husband and I are Common Potters as far as money management goes (to use the parlance of an old, great Slate series), but I do keep some accounts from before we were married that could become my F-off fund if needed. That money is in stocks and funds, but not in a retirement vehicle.
For those of you who don't have such accounts, you may want to consider the Sometime Sharer method of married money management (where you each keep a set percentage of your income and move it to private accounts, with the other percentage going to a joint account), or you may want to weigh the penalties for taking money out early from retirement vehicles like 401Ks and IRAs.
Ladies, what are your thoughts on the subject?
Peach Pye
This is not an original thought ( sorry Billfold). I have had one for years and years and years..
Senior Attorney
Right? My mom always told me I needed to have money to fall back on, which meant the same thing in nicer language.
Keeping track of nanny hours
Off topic but does anyone have an app in which they keep track of their babysitter/nanny’s weekly hours? Looking for something where you can enter when they came and left and then tell you how many hours for the week. Bonus if it syncs between iPhones… If not, how do you keep track? I used to use an excel sheet but seems so inefficient! Thx!
SC
My nanny has a small notebook that she tracks her hours in, plus any reimbursable expenses like mileage or small errands. Then on Friday afternoons, she adds up the totals for the week and tells me how much the check should be. Every so often, she inputs the weekly totals into a spreadsheet that I can send to my accountant for tax purposes at the end of the year. It makes sense for her to track because it varies whether DH or I am there to meet her. And the notebook is very easy. My nanny doesn’t have a smartphone, so she wouldn’t be able to track her hours in an app.
Our nanny also uses the notebook for all the contact numbers for us and my in-laws who live in the area and to write down my son’s general schedule whenever we have someone else doing childcare for a day.
Anonymous
You could use a normal work hours app. I used to track my own time for a while (we don’t track in my field). I would push a button when I came to work, when I left, for taking breaks etc. Unfortunately I don’t remember which one I used, but if you search for work hours app, there are dozens.
Senior Attorney
Yes. Of course.
My former husband and I had joint accounts, but we also live in a community property state and half of everything was legally mine, and I was the one who did all the books. When things started to get really bad towards the end, I moved a good amount of cash into an account in my name only and used it to run away from home and set myself up in an apartment and pay my legal fees for the divorce. And yes, at that point (the last few weeks before I left) I did keep it a secret from my husband. In the alternative universe in which I were to remarry, I would have my own money from the get-go and it would be no secret.
I had to give up a good amount of retirement savings that were in my name and came from my earnings as part of the divorce, and I am okay with that. Saving for the future is important but not at the cost of enduring abuse in the present.
The advice I would (and do) give young women starting out is to do your best to live below your means, build up a cash cushion, and do whatever it takes to make sure you can always support yourself and any children you have.
Henrietta
My friends all think I am silly for insisting that my boyfriend pay for 1/2 of my bills when he stays the weekend. I think this is only fair since he eats, drinks and uses my facilities. That means expenses for me. However, when I go to his place, he pays for everything. I do NOT see a double standard because I am generous in bed with him.
SoBored
I can’t tell if you’re serious or not but I’m howling at those last two lines, thank you.
Godzilla
Hellllllloooooooooo Ellen with a boyfriend!
Anonymous
I’m all for being able to support yourself in the event of a worst case scenario (be it death, divorce, or whatever) but having a separate fund from your spouse and keeping it a secret is a recipe for divorce. My husband and I have joint everything (jointly titled real property and both names on all bank accounts), so no, I guess I don’t have an eff-off fund. I wouldn’t hesitate to leave if I wanted to though, because I have a good job and I know I’d be ok eventually.
agreed
Yeah, I’m not comfortable with the idea of hidden assets. I’ve got assets that are solely in my name (investment account, my car is titled in my name), but my husband knows about them. I’ve also built my career so that I can support my child on my own if everything went horribly wrong.
Lyssa
I’d agree with that.
I’ll add that, in the event of a divorce, if the account contains money earned during the marriage and there’s no agreement concerning it (i.e., no prenup), even a completely separate, secret account is generally considered marital property. (Of course, that’s an issue for the final disposition of the assets, so it wouldn’t impact an emergency exit situation.)
Anonymous
This article fills me with blinding fury levels of rage.
Fuck. You. Women do not get abused because OMG cute leather skirt at Nordstrom. Having money doesn’t insulate you from abuse. Not being able to leave an abusive situation because you don’t have the money isn’t your fault.
I can’t believe how many people are celebrating this crap. It’s yet another way that the real problem: men, is being blamed on women. The answer to male abuse isn’t female perfection.
You want to talk about the importance of a rainy day fund? Great. Spare me the sanctimonious patronizing shit about how getting hit can be avoided by eating rice and beans.
pugsnbourbon
+ 1 million. Thank you.
Pretty Primadonna
I agree with you. However, I read into the article that having an F Off Fund is also good for leaving bad, unhealthy relationships, not just abusive. I think it is prudent to have cash stashed away so that one does not have to put up with b.s., whatever the source.
eplawyer
Sure it’s the man’s fault for being abusive. But one way they can be abusive is to control the finances. Because you need money for a security deposit on a new place. You need money for legal representation. You need money to put gas in your car so you can get to work to keep earning money to pay for things like food and rent on the new place. If it’s all gone into a joint account and he suddenly closes the account and puts it all in his name because — abusive — then youare stuck trying to get out.
I meet with someone 2 or 3 times a month who does not have the money to get out. They have no savings because they are just paying the bills and are in debt every month, so their credit sucks. Which makes passing a credit check for a new place even harder. Or they stayed home with the kids because the husband wouldn’t let them work so have no independent means of their own. The account in is in the husband’s name only and they don’t have any access to it.
This is the reality. Having access to your own money gives you the freedom to get out if you need to. Be mad at the idea of abuse all you want. But it is true that abuse happens and victims need the means to get out. In America those means are financial.
Anon-lawyer
If you don’t have separate accounts, in this day and age, you’re an idiot. I don’t care how great your job and your husband are. Its a recipe for disaster. The whole point of an f-off fund is for the unexpected. Separate accounts are an absolute necessity precisely because you have a good job.
BB
Ha! I just commented below you :)
Anonattorney
Too strong. I would just say that you need to be present in the managing of the finances. If things start to go south in the relationship, you need to have the knowledge about where your money is going, and the ability to start moving your share of the cash into an appropriate account. This isn’t all-or-nothing: you can obviously open a separate account at any time.
BB
We have separate accounts. Whenever these convos come up here, it always feels like I’m the only one that does this. We’re naturally very independent people. And sure, it doesn’t work 100% of the time, but looking at this post, neither does having joint accounts. I make quite a bit more, so I tend to just take a larger share of the expenses (which will probably become most of the expenses at some point). Just throwing it out there that it is possible to have a good marriage with separate accounts.
Sydney Bristow
You’re not the only one. My husband and I have separate accounts. It works for us.
TheElms
Us too! I also have an f-off account, and my husband knows about it and thinks its a great idea. Its intended purpose isn’t limited to the event of a divorce or other marital issue, but it covers everything from I want to quit my job to I want to make a really big splurge than husband thinks is frivolous. He has one as well. It works for us.
Amy H.
+2. We are Separate Sharers (to use the Slate terminology) and it has worked very well for over a decade. A decade that has included big earnings fluctuations back and forth I might add. I have a savings acct. that is separate property (we are in a community property state) that is both F-you money and part of our emergency fund. Spouse knows about it and has known about it all along.
AnonForThis
Hi, genuinely curious what/how a separate property account is/works (I too am a separate sharer living in a community property state).
Amy H.
It’s not a different type of account. I just mean it has only my separate property in it and I never commingle/never put any community property (i.e. salary earned now that we are married) in it.
Peach Pye
We have separate accounts as well. My accounts are not “secret” but he knows that I manage and keep my money separately. As does he. We both contribute to expenses. It works for us and most certainly, is not a recipe for divorce. YMMV.
August
We too have separate accounts for everything. Our investments are also very different and they are individual accounts. I pay every bill from my account and he transfers me roughly half of our common expenses to my account. The money we both have access to is the HSA account. I want to set up a joint account for our emergency savings so that we both have access to that money in case of emergency. It has always been this way since we got married (last five years) and has worked well. If we have kids, arrangement can be a bit different, but it would not vary significantly.
DC Anon
Separate accounts as well. We know exactly what our entire financial picture looks like, but it’s easier for us to each manage our own cash flow.
anonymous
We have separate accounts, investments, everything except the house, which is shared. We do know how much the other has where, but not direct access to those funds.
Marion
Right there with you! We have a family fund but everything else stays with the person who earned it!
Wildkitten
I hate this concept. I think it’s victim-blaming masked as fiscal responsibility.
Wildkitten
My mom was a victim of domestic violence and it wasn’t because of her car, or her clothes, or her food, or her coffee table. It was because my Dad is an asshole who beats women.
Anonymous
Agree completely. My much longer thoughts are in moderation because I used the same words as the article, but I find it abhorrent.
Anon
As a domestic abuse survivor, I respectfully disagree. I don’t read this as victim blaming – I just see it as smart advise. I stayed in an abusive relationship mostly because my ex was a controlling a*hole, but also because, realistically, I was a student with no ability to support myself and I didn’t want to roll the dice on the legal system and open my story up to the scrutiny of others. So instead I got a job, saved money in a shoe box, and left as soon as I could afford to. To do otherwise would have just left me financially dependent or obligated towards whoever ‘rescued’ me.
15 years later, I’m married to someone wonderful – but I retain the memory of feeling trapped – that has never left me – and I still keep my own account, one that I certainly hope to never need. I can’t relax in my relationship unless I know it’s there, just in case.
Shopaholic
I don’t think it’s victim blaming. I think there’s never an excuse for abuse but money = freedom. Having money lets you get out of a bad situation, whether it’s an abusive relationship or a bad job.
bridget
Are you mental?
No one is saying that you are at fault for getting hit or that it’s okay – the *entire premise* is that bad things happen to good people, and being abused is really crappy, so the ability to leave is important.
I hate this asinine “OMG, we can’t give solid advice about leaving or avoiding crummy situations because then some third-wave so-called ‘feminist’ will talk about victim blaming.” Helping actual victims stop being victims is not victim blaming, ffs.
Anonymous
You are the absolute worst. There is absolutely a way to talk about this that doesn’t belittle women. This article didn’t find it.
You have no ability to listen Bridget and its old.
Anonymous
How is this not just the same as having an emergency fund…? The emergency could be that you get fired, or it could be that you need out of a horrible job situation. Either way, same fund. So, not really sure I get what’s important about labeling this fund the F-off Fund.
bridget
The ability to control it so that your abuser doesn’t drain all the money out of it to prevent you from leaving.
Solo
So single people don’t need one? My EF suffices? Ok then. Score one for singlehood (finally).
Wildkitten
Yes! Your car can have a fender! Until you meet a man (or woman, if you prefer). Then no fenders for you.
Terry
Single people absolutely need one. I first heard the term “f* off fund” from my grandmother (born in 1901) who had a job in her single days where she was under a lot of pressure to sleep with her supervisor.
C
I have seen critiques of this article that it portrays women as stupid wommin be shoppin’ — and responsible for their own downfall — rather than, well, generally smart 51% of the population. While I think the original article’s tone was a little trite, the premise is not. And humans, male or female, are naturally optimists and may not realize that “the worst” really can sneak up on you. My mom and dad had a really rough period at one point but had moved beyond that… and then he died of a sudden heart attack. Wham! If she hadn’t been the one who managed the finances the situation would have been even worse than necessary. My husband and I are sometime sharers – my choice because he doesn’t understand some of the things I like to spend money on (jewelry! shoes!) and I didn’t want to deal with constant grumbling. Before we got married I moved most of my cash to another account so if things do go south I have a safety fund and it doesn’t end up as community property. He knows about it though. We have a joint account for ongoing expenses, vacations, etc. And I tell him about every high end jewelry purchase too :-) (point of clarification: we save around 40% of our incomes so it’s not about living beyond our means, just who values what)
TK
I think the premise is helpful insofar as people in their 20s don’t tend to think the worst can happen to them and it presents several relate-able and unfortunately not uncommon scenarios that exemplify why an emergency fund is necessary.
When I was 22 and uninsured by choice (as in, if I’d spent less on happy hours I could have made room in my budget), a 23 year old, also uninsured friend was diagnosed with cancer. Guess what? I bought health insurance. The article attempts to serve the same function by pointing out that if you DO find yourself in a worst case scenario through no fault of your own, access to an emergency fund can give you options you would not otherwise have.