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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Thomasina High-Neck Top

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

The shape of this blouse is just unusual enough to keep it interesting, but not so odd that you won’t be able to wear a blazer or sweater over the top. I like the high collar, and the jersey fabric looks like it would be light and comfy for spring. I would wear this with a navy suit, or a white A-line skirt as we get closer to spring.

This blouse is $60 and available in sizes 2 through 20/22 at Boden. It also comes in solid black and two other polka-dotted options. Thomasina High-Neck Top

Loft has two pretty tops (a small floral print and larger floral design) that come in sizes 14–26 (as well as straight sizes) and are on sale for only $24.75 each.

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343 Comments

  1. Really pretty.

    Here’s a lighthearted question. We went to a trendy restaurant last Sunday night at around 5:00, so it was not very crowded. It took us about five minutes to be seated, even though there was only one family ahead of us. Then we got our water after a couple of minutes, and the waitress said she would be right back to get our drink orders and go over the menu. But she didn’t come back for a long time. We are guessing about twelve minutes. So then my husband suggested we leave, and we did.

    The question: How long is too long to have to wait at a restaurant? This always drives my husband crazy, so we are always having this discussion. In his opinion, they should get your first drink in your hand incredibly fast and then after that he will be more patient. He has a point, but I always feel bad leaving. Thoughts?

      1. Yeah, we were on the patio, and we didn’t see a single server come out there, so that didn’t work. That’s what I usually would have done.

          1. At some point, doesn’t it seem like you are trying too hard to get this place to take your money? I don’t know, I’m conflicted.

          2. I’m not saying the restaurant is great but I’m also not in the habit of flouncing out of principal.

          3. I guess I don’t view having to ask the host or bar for a drink or to send over my server once as an inconvenience on the level of trying hard to get the place to take my money. Maybe different if my server seemed to be lounging around, but I would just assume that she had to take care of something else for a moment and wasn’t being neglectful of my old fashioned or whatever. If it happens all the time at the same place or a lot throughout the meal, then that’s where it’s more annoying. But my general practice is to try to give people the benefit of the doubt, especially when it doesn’t really affect my life, and that includes servers in restaurants who might be a little slow.

    2. I think twelve minutes is a long time to wait just to order your drinks and/or appetizers. I don’t think I’ve ever left a restaurant over something like that after being seated. I would just have tried to flag someone else down to take our order.

    3. Did you speak with the manager? I know that social distancing is becoming a thing at restaurants, but given the low occupancy of your visit, I doubt that it was the cause.

    4. This sounds like an ongoing debate with your husband, where you’re more patient and willing to wait, and he isn’t. I’m not sure that us giving you time frames is going to do anything to change him. And you being able to say, “My internet friends said it’s correct to give 15 minutes” is going to do anything to turn him into a person who care less about this particular issue.

      Bottom line: I don’t go out to eat to be efficient. So I’d be telling him to chill and learn to calm down. But I don’t think that would be useful, because he’s apparently not a chill, “calm down” kind of guy about this. So I’d be stuck trying not to fume at HIM while he’s fuming at the service. Not a good scenario.

      2. He actually is interested in what y’all have to say; I told him I was asking. He doesn’t fume about it, per se, he just calmly says he’d rather go somewhere else. He doesn’t make a scene or anything either.

        Also, this doesn’t happen that often, although I used the term always. I guess I just meant repeatedly, but not commonly.

    5. My husband I have done the same thing – after about 15-20 minutes. We don’t want to give the waitress a hard time about it, but we don’t want to sit through bad service either, so we just leave without raising a fuss. One time, we received an email from the restaurant a couple days later. They apologized for the long wait (that time it was a full 30 minutes of being seated and not having anybody come to the table) and gave us a gift card for a future meal. That was great customer services.

    6. It’s odd to me that this is happening to you often. Sounds like while this restaurant isn’t great at service your husband is also impatient and controlling.

      1. Thanks for throwing the inflammatory statement in there to try to start a fight. I know it’s a rough morning for anyone watching the stock market but go have a muffin and take a walk; you’ll feel better.

        1. Ok? That’s how I read it. She said this is always happening, and it would really be a problem for me to often be told I have to leave a restaurant I wanted to go to because my husband is impatient. Fully possible I’m completely wrong but isn’t the point of asking a large group their thoughts actually getting a variety of opinions?

          I would like a muffin though thanks, double chocolate.

        2. Okay first of all, you stole my eat a muffin line and you’re ruining it with a lot of other projected BS.

          1. You need to take your own advice about eating a muffin, sweetheart. Relax. The world has bigger problems now than who “stole your line.” FFS.

          2. I have no opinion on this issue and seldom comment on much substantively. I do want to say this exchange has made me feel very uncomfortable – and I have zero issue with confrontation. I find myself very turned off by the unmistakable tone, and would venture a guess that other readers agree. I am posting this comment because I am a long-time reader and would like this site to remain well-supported. If the tone of the comments remains at this level I will probably take my internet clicks elsewhere.
            Please try to be kind to each other – there is enough garbage in this world for all women to deal with. We don’t need to add to each other’s burden.

          3. “Another anonymous judge” – LOL, you must not have been reading here that long.
            “Internet clicks”?

    7. Wow, I’m not that impatient – I can’t imagine leaving after 12 minutes, what are you going to do? Go home? Find another place? All of that presumably takes some time. I like a European, lingering experience where I don’t feel rushed. Your husband’s approach would drive me crazy, but different strokes I guess.

        1. Well, this was a walkable area, so we just went to the place next door, where we had already been. I think his concern is that if it’s this slow at first, then it will be this slow the entire meal. We’ll be waiting for more water, waiting to order food, waiting for the food, waiting for the check, etc.

      2. Same here. I’m generally very tolerant of slower service, so 12 minutes wouldn’t be offensive to me. And the fact that someone was keeping an eye on the time so closely to note that it was 12 minutes would also drive me insane. I would have found someone to ask our server to come over or just given someone else my drink order wayyyyy before leaving.

      3. I don’t mind lingering but she’s talking about before the meal has started. They were ignored fro too long and that is bad service.

    8. I agree your drinks should come out right away. I’m assuming you didn’t flag down the waitress because she was on break or something. I would’ve either asked the hostess to grab our waitress or I would’ve gone to the bar for a drink.

    9. I hate it when wait staff are on you for your drink order as soon as you sit down. I prefer some one that brings me water and then leave for like ten minutes so I can read the drink menu. If I’m eating out somewhere new I want a few minutes to review the cocktail list and wine list to decide if I want a couple glasses of wine with my meal or if I want a cocktail first and then one glass of wine.

      The idea of getting the first drink incredibly fast assumes that the person knows what they want their first drink to be. I rarely do and I would feel annoyed and rushed if someone is looking for my order when I’ve barely opened the wine list, let alone chatted with DH about options.

      Wait staff have it hard.

      1. +1 as long as I have my water and a menu, which should be provided to you without asking, I’m fine waiting a bit for them to let me consider. What is not acceptable to me is waiting 15 minutes to even be addressed by the waiter, with no water or menus.

      2. +1 This is me too. If I am out to eat these days, it’s generally with someone who I don’t get to spend much time with and I want to take my time. We usually end up spending the first 15 minutes catching up and haven’t even looked at the menu or decided what we want to drink!

        As former wait staff, it’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

      3. +1 – I want to read the menu, think about what I want to eat and drink, so stressful when you’re pressed to order a drink upon entrance. I think this is confusing going to someone’s house where etiquette gurus recommend having a drink ready to welcome people

    10. I am the inpatient one in my relationship, but even I can wait 12 minutes. I think you should probably wait a little longer next time for marital harmony.

      1. Whoops, totally misread your comment and thought you were the one who wanted to leave early. I do think 12 minutes is not much to wait though so maybe your husband can slow down a bit.

    11. My husband and I are in a season of life where we dine out/get take out for a very large percentage of our meals and this kind of thing happens all the time. I think it’s a sign of a strong economy (although less so lately…). I think as soon as you feel like you want to leave, go ahead and leave (assuming you haven’t consumed anything). No need to stick it out and be miserable to protect a server’s feelings.

    12. I guess I’m with your husband. I think there’s a difference between relaxed service and slow service, and getting a drink order (or offering to take it) and then letting customers take their time with the menu is a huge part of that difference. 12 minutes between getting water and being able to order a drink seems long. If I understand correctly, you’d been at the restaurant for 20 minutes at that point, you were seated in an out-of-the-way area, and you didn’t see anyone to flag down. I think it’s reasonable to predict that the rest of the meal won’t go the way you want it to and walk nextdoor to a place you already know.

    13. That’s irritating, but I probably wouldn’t leave after that short of a wait. I try to be sympathetic to the waitstaff since they can get pulled away, need to use the restroom, etc. I would try to flag someone down and be super nice about it at that point in time. I wouldn’t want to leave but then again I wouldn’t want to raise a fuss and be perceived as an a$$. Even if it is their fault. After all, spit is clear and snot blends really well in to mashed potatoes. I’m more likely to complain after the fact especially if I continue to experience sub-par service.

    14. The restaurant closest to my apartment is notorious for this- the service is absolutely awful. One time I seated myself at the bar (the hostess said I should) and then spent the next fifteen minutes trying to catch the eye, call over, or otherwise convince the 3 waitresses and 2 bartenders to pay attention to me; I was one of three tables in the restaurant (with probably 60 tables total). I got up to walk over to them and they all walked into the kitchen at once so I got my stuff and left and then left a scathing Yelp review (which I don’t usually do, but I was SO irritated.) Haven’t been back since. My Yelp review continues to get liked on a weekly basis, though so clearly it’s still a problem.

      So this is all to say: I think it’s case by case, but the only time I’ve ever left due to bad service was then. I usually am pretty patient and will go find someone.

    15. I have left when ignored and have no regrets. One time we called the restaurant and asked if someone had forgotten us. That works too

  2. Anyone feeling crafty? Some former staffers at my non-profit put up a HUGE letter board (the kind that uses white plastic 2-inch letters) that I’m trying to use more creatively. Right now, the only use is to have to come up with words and sayings that I then have to meticulously spell out while standing on a ladder. (Not gonna happen.)

    I know, I could just take it down. But there might be a use for it. Has anyone come across doodads or accessories that would let me put printed posters on it? (It’s that big.) Or turn it into some kind of letters + frames display for upcoming events and activities?

  3. I wonder how our ancestors had it, knowing that smallpox or the plague was out there, and dreading it showing up. Or when the first person in their house broke out in pox. Or yellow fever. Or the 1918 flu. Maybe life was just more deadly then — if one thing didn’t get you quickly, another thing might; if not, something would get you slowly.

    At any rate, there are <10 cases in my state, none within several hours of me. None in my county. Still: conventions are being cancelled and hotel bookings are down. Hotel staff hours are getting cut so as not to lay off anyone. I'm donating to our food bank today because people will still need to eat (even more so if schools are closed).

    1. I’ve been thinking about this too. Information was so much harder to come by then, it might not have felt as scary and severe until you knew someone who had the flu in 1918.
      I’m happy to be on the side of overreacting. There are only a handful of people near me who have tested positive, but our knowledge is so limited by the tiny number of tests that have been done, I assume I’ve been exposed.

    2. Yes of course life was more deadly back then. Lots of people died in childhood of things that are now totally treatable.

      1. I would probably have died of a bladder infection the first time I had intercourse, if I’d made it though childhood.

          1. Antibiotics weren’t discovered until 1930 or so and weren’t used by the public until after WWII. Before that, people died of common bacterial infections like UTIs and strep throat all the time. Then there were all the deadly diseases like measles that we now have vaccine for.

          2. Re antibiotics, don’t they help what your body might (or might not) do naturally? Like can you totally not clear a UTI if you have a decent immune system (asking b/c I truly do not know). I had thought that antibiotics sped your recovery (but you could recover on your own) for mild bugs and helped save you from the truly nasty ones that your body likely could not overcome on its own.

          3. I think it probably depends. I’ve always been of the understanding that antibiotics can kill things your body would not fight off on its own. As someone who had a UTI turn in to a kidney infection, I know I would be died if I lived in the 1800s.

          4. Different poster, but my first UTI resulted in a very painful kidney infection and I’ve never cleared a UTI without antibiotics.

          5. On my mom’s side, one aunt, both of her kids, and one other cousin all had C sections. I think a couple of hundred years ago, they probably all would have died in childbirth. I’m Rh- and my husband is Rh+, so my kids would have survived birth, but the second one would likely have been very sick (they are both Rh+). Hooray for rhogam! And obstetric advances generally.

          6. Yes, adults can fight off some (but not all) bacterial infections without antibiotics. But children all have weak immune systems, because it takes time to build your immunity. Before penicillin, children regularly died of things that we think of as absolutely NBD today, like ear infections.

          7. I posted about the bladder infection. I was absolutely saved by antibiotics when mine spread to my kidneys.

            I dislike this line of thinking that antibiotics aren’t necessary. Mortality tables have changed drastically since the introduction of antibiotics. They’re only optional if you want to go back to the days where people routinely died in their 20s-30s-40s of infections that are considered easily treatable today.

          8. I mean when you think about whether antibiotics are necessary, it comes down to: the stronger, healthier and luckier people could survive this. Do we care about the rest? Also, is it beneficial if the stronger and healthier people heal faster, have less of a chance to infect others, and can go back to work or caring for others?

          9. I am the poster who is antibiotic-curious. What I read says that antibiotics are wildly over-used and poorly-used (not finishing the course of treatment) to the point where we are now more vulerable to bad bugs b/c the formerly good-enough meds now aren’t strong enough. Not sure what to do except trust my doctors and follow their directions though.

          10. Hi Anon@1:23, yes you are right that there are issues with over-use of antibiotics. I fully support that you listen to your doctor on this! Misuse: yes, you want to take the full course of antibiotics that were prescribed (often people feel better after a few days, and don’t take the rest, that is problematic). Also common misuse: antibiotics are effective against bacteria, but not viruses (you want antivirals for that). Another issue is giving’preventative’ antibiotics, which happens at large scale in animal raising (due to the conditions in factory farming, bacterial spread is likely, so they give antibiotics without testing for infections first). I don’t know how common humans take antibiotics ‘just in case’, I think since you need a prescription, it shouldn’t be as dramatic.

      3. As a genealogist, you absolutely see the huge spike in deaths in 1918 from the Spanish flu, and it affected young, middle and old alike. If I work on a tree where someone died in 1918, it’s almost always of the flu. As well, do not minimize how dangerous childbirth was. Did you know that in the census, they used to ask “number of children this woman had” and “number of children living”? Those numbers were often substantially different. In my own family tree, I can see 10 children / 6 lived, 7 children / 4 lived, 8 children / 4 lived (one of the deceased was a twin of one of the ones who lived) and one particularly sad case in which a family of 10 lost 7 children in the course of a few weeks due to contagious disease — it made the local newspaper since it was so newsworthy and sad. Women died in childbirth all the livelong day. Anyone who does a family tree will find this out for their own family.

    4. I was just reading a novel last night where one of the family’s children died of Spanish flu (it was set in 1918). It hit me so hard.

      And yes, life was just SO much more deadly. Do your family tree – mortality rates are so much different than today. It’s also interesting to see the difference in social classes. My husband had a relative who died of a vitamin deficiency from malnutrition…in the 1930s. She was in Appalachia. Meanwhile, in the 1930s, my family was in New England with the newest electric appliances and cars.

      1. My people were all farmers, so living away from large population centers and with a variety of fruits / vegetables / cows / pigs / chicken to eat. They tended to live a fairly long time. Turns out, the homestead had a water well dug veryclose to the septic field (once they moved it inside from an outhouse, which was more distant), so I think we were also very lucky (or this made them ultra-hardy, almost like how vultures have extra stomach acid so that what they eat doesn’t kill them).

        1. Hattie Big Sky. It’s a delightful read. I’m not sure if it’s a YA novel, but it certainly could be. The protagonist is an orphaned 16 year old girl who inherits her uncle’s homestead claim in eastern Montana. Definitely a great book that shows perseverance and teaches history.

          Oh, ha, yeah, definitely is YA :) I picked it up at a used bookstore and nothing on its dust jacket marked it as YA (must be a first edition) – regardless, Harry Potter is YA and we all know how good that is :)
          https://www.amazon.com/Hattie-Big-Sky-Kirby-Larson/dp/0385735952

    5. I think back in the day knowledge of XYZ disease one state over, if they had that knowledge at all, was not that worrisome because people simply didn’t travel as much and life was harder – less time to worry about this sort of thing until it was at your doorstep. Plus, what else could you do other than avoid people upon whose existence your life depended? In general, yes life was more deadly, but it was no less devastating when people around you got very ill.

    6. I saw that Tom Hanks has it. But was interesting in what I read what that he was also a Type 2 diabetic. That was surprising — like he seems fit and trim and yet he has had it for some time. When this is all over, is this something to get tested for? My bloodwork has always seemed OK on this and now I wonder though. It is a serious disease and if it can get Tom Hanks it can get me.

      1. Anyone can get COVID-19, even children who don’t typically show symptoms. Your underlying health conditions affect how likely you are to die from it, not how likely you are to get it. It appears Tom and Rita have mild cases and will be fine.

      2. ” But was interesting in what I read what that he was also a Type 2 diabetic. That was surprising — like he seems fit and trim and yet he has had it for some time.”

        Not all overweight people have Type II diabetes and not all Type II diabetics are overweight; those myths are dangerous and they do prevent many people from getting tested or thinking they are at risk, and they only get diagnosed when they develop neuropathy or another serious complication. There’s a genetic factor with Type II that can override lifestyle. Yes, you should get tested for it if you have a family history or if you exhibit symptoms. They need to test your fasting blood glucose and your A1C. We have a family history so I get tested every year.

        1. +1 to all of this. It’s my pet peeve when people assume that type 2 is based strictly on weight and level of fitness. I’m underweight and relatively fit, but have had a slightly elevated a1c for years because both my parents are diabetic as well as a number of extended family relatives. I’ve also had GD twice because of the family history (and age). Diabetes is a complicated disease and while weight and fitness level are contributing factors, they don’t tell the whole story at all.

          1. So no one has ever asked my family history (my grandparents are all dead; parents are healthy) on this. And I don’t know of my A1C getting tested (I know that term from commercials for diabetes meds). All I know is that “fasting blood glucose” is tested (usually within guidelines) — is that enough? I didn’t have gestational diabetes, but I don’t know that that has any bearing on non-gestational T2 diabetes. Does it?

          2. Do you have other symptoms to indicate your insulin is not producing properly? If you don’t have the other symptoms, then there’s no reason to get tested for it. You don’t have family history of it (that you know of), but that’s not really a reason to get tested absent other indications its a concern.

          3. Anon at 11:35, I would go ahead and ask that your A1c be tested at your next physical – there’s no harm to it and it’s more accurate in many ways than a single fasting blood glucose reading since it measures your blood sugar over the previous 90 days. My husband, who is one of the most fit people I know (works out hard 4x/wk, eats clean, no family history of diabetes) has shown some impaired glucose readings (I was checking him for fun since I have GD now and test 4x/day) and will be talking to his doc about it at his physical next month. They say millions of Americans are prediabetic and don’t know it, so I highly recommend getting it checked if you want to be on the safe side.

          4. Thanks — this is all good info. I think I’m OK but I suspect that my spouse may need testing b/c he looks like a risk factor anyway and has had dodgy sugar readings before. His diet is horrid. A wakeup call would do him good.

      3. You said your blood work always looks fine! Blood work is how you would diagnose diabetes, so I say don’t worry about this one.

        1. Bloodwork may not be enough to rule out if the right things aren’t tested. A lot of doctors won’t order fasting blood glucose because fasting is a pain and a lot of people don’t like doing it, but fasting blood glucose combined with A1C is how diabetes gets diagnosed. I had to specifically ask my doctor to test me for diabetes; he didn’t offer it.

          1. is this a different kind of fasting that the standard, come-get-your-blood-drawn-before-you-ingest-anything-in-the-morning?

          2. +1, most docs won’t order a1c unless you ask. Even with FBG, it’s often the last to go in T2 diabetes (in other words, that reading remains normal even though postprandial numbers are elevated), so my endo does not consider it a reliable indicator on its own.

      4. Tom Hanks had been overweight and had gained and lost large amounts of weight quickly for roles. He blames his diagnosis on that.

      5. “Is this something to get tested for?” Have you read the news? Remember that we don’t have enough tests NOW. The first batch that were released were faulty. We don’t have a sense of the death rate precisely because we cannot physically test everyone who has the relevant symptoms.

        2. She’s talking about testing for diabetes. Not for covid-19. Read more carefully before being rude.

    7. There were 10 confirmed cases in DC as of yesterday, a city with a population of about 700,000. The DC mayor declared a state of emergency, all large events have been cancelled, and I just feel like not enough is being done to stop the spread. The metro was still basically as busy as normal on my way in, which I assume is because I think my route is largely federal government employees.

      1. I wonder what will happen to health care workers, especially RNs and LPNs, when schools shut down. My female doctor friends have nannies, but my nurse friends schedule their shifts with some reliance that their kids will be in school and can’t WFH if schools shut down unless they have much older kids.

        1. I’m an RN in NYC with a husband who will start working from home next week, but we also have full-time daycare. I’m concerned that her daycare is going to close soon– my husband definitely can’t reliably get any work done at home while watching her. So… we’ll see I guess.

      2. Interesting.. . my commute has been much shorter in the last couple days, and I wondered why since nothing has officially closed downtown yet.

      3. Fed employee in Arlington here – this should start clearing up next week. My agency is going remote TW en masse starting tomorrow.

        1. Not necessarily – there are plenty of agencies whose work can’t be done remotely. Intel, diplomacy, military…there are 23,000 workers at the Pentagon alone, and only a portion of those jobs can be done remotely.

          1. Right but once the people who can work remotely, start doing so it’s easier for everyone else to protect themselves. Like in Italy public transport is still operating but people sit at least one metre apart and the bus is considered ‘full’ when everyone is one metre apart and there are no more seats. Even on shut down, emergency workers etc need to get to their jobs so public transport will continue to operate.

          2. Plus a lot of agencies that could do it are not. I’m at an agency that would easily go to remote telework for everyone with no impact on our mission, and it has still not been ordered. The only agencies I know that have closed and gone to telework are those where an employee at that location has a confirmed case, which is too late.

    8. I’m now at the stage where I’m hoping my half marathon on Sunday DOES get cancelled so that my dad who’s running with me (he’s 61) stops pressuring me not to cancel my plans. How the tables turn.

    9. This was us last week in MA. Now every town around me has closed schools and my town has 10 suspected/not yet confirmed cases and one confirmed.

    10. The one thing that the final season of GOT did well was the sense of dread when the white walkers are coming south to Winterfell but aren’t there yet, and everyone is hunkered down just knowing that they are coming. I feel a bit like that now. Just waiting.

    11. As of yesterday, Texas can run 125 tests per day in the ENTIRE state with a population of 30 million. By comparison, just ONE lab in Ontario, Canada can run 1,000 tests per day. That’s why everything is shut down with only one or two people testing positive — the mayors and city officials understand its spreading throughout the community and there is insufficient abilities to test for it.

      1. Hey thanks for this factoid. Gonna bring it up next time someone claims that “socialized medicine” in Canada is so much worse than our system here.

        1. The amount of under-testing in the US is being widely discussed in my Canadian office. We’ve had office buildings shut down pending testing because one person went to Italy and has flu like symptoms. Still no confirmed cases in my city though.

          I’ve heard that the tests aren’t free everywhere either? That’s crazy.

          2. Honestly I have no idea if folks are being charged for tests or what the fee might be. Then again I rarely have any idea what non-preventive medical services cost before I get them. ‘Murica.

          3. They’re theoretically free if you have insurance and some states have made them free for everyone. Not being able to get one is a much bigger problem. I had a weird virus last week where I ran a low grade (<101) fever for a couple days and had a lot of body aches and then that went away and was replaced with a dry cough, which I still have, although it's finally easing up. I know it wasn't a cold because I ran a fever and had no runny nose or sneezing, and I really don't think it was the flu because I've had that a few times and it's hit me like a ton of bricks with a very high fever. With this weird virus, I basically felt fine except for the chills and aches and then the cough. I called my doctor and they said there was no way I could be tested, because I have no history of travel and no known contact with a confirmed case. That's still the testing standard in most of the US. I have insurance and would have paid out of pocket for a test even if it wasn't free – but there was no way I could get one.

          4. Oh no Anon 1:17! Hope you feel better soon!

            The system here seems to be call the regular provincial health advice line (offered 24/7 year round, staffed by registered nurses) and they will send a public health officer to your house to swap you if you have Covid symptoms. You’re supposed to self-isolate until test result gets back. Not sure if they’ll be able to keep that up once we start see a lot of cases but that’s the starting point. Also cancelled all non-essential government travel

          5. Thanks! I feel fine. Whatever virus I had was much less severe than the flu for me (I’ve had that a few times despite getting the shot). I would have thought nothing of it, if it weren’t for all the discussion about COVID-19. I doubt I actually had it (there are no confirmed cases in my county) but when I hear people with more mild cases like Tom Hanks describe their symptoms it’s like…that’s exactly what it felt like for me. Who knows! We should have much more widespread testing here.

    12. I was thinking about this the other day. My family on both sides all had children who died up until my parents generation. So my grandparents, my great-grandparents, and so on all had at least one child who died. One was probably SIDS, another died of some kind of infection on a farm in Kansas during a snow storm when the doctor couldn’t make it out to the house, etc. It was fairly normal for children to die, and now thankfully! it is not.

      1. My mom is a Boomer from rural Kansas who had an outhouse as a kid. Sanitation improvements plus our access to antibiotics have greatly reduced childhood mortality and mortality from injuries that get infected.

    13. We have been told we cannot take sick days for mere exposure to covid, only actual illness.
      If we are out for exposure, we are considered AWOL and insubordinate and subject to discipline.
      Yes, I am a salaried employee and yes, I know this policy is probably not legal. No, I can’t complain to HR because we don’t have an HR, and no, I don’t work in a health related field or any field where my work is particularly needed during a pandemic.
      Sorry, but this situation is so awful I just needed to vent.

      1. yeah, this goes against all CDC and OSHA recommendations. Your employers are being irresponsible.

      2. Call the local TV station or newspaper and see if they’ll do an anonymous report. Unless your company has <10 employees, deny it was you who reported.

    14. I recently read As Bright as Heaven and have been thinking about it a lot during this. I think it was a lot of terror of knowing someone you know would get it but hoping it wasn’t your family, and then dealing with it when it was.

      Have also been thinking about Station Eleven, unfortunately. One of my favorite books but right about now it’s feeling too real. I’m in Seattle…obviously this isn’t going to end up with apocalypse and destruction of humankind but yesterday was the first day I felt frightened.

    15. As a child with scarlet fever, I was in an isolation hospital for a month. Now in the antibiotic era this is called strep throat.

    17. You don’t know how many cases are in your state! No one has the stats because the US is not testing anywhere near adequately!

      1. This. I’m guesstimating that the stats are maybe 10% of the cases that are actually out there.

    18. i think a lot more people just died… my maternal grandma was one of 12 of which 6 survived into their 60s+. even on my dads side he had 2 siblings who passed

  4. I’m scheduled for PTO for the first week of May. I am not optimistic that flying will be a reasonable option at that point, even domestically, given how quickly the travel issues are ramping up. I was planning to go to Washington state originally (Olympic Park, etc.), but that seems misguided at this point obviously. I am now consdering Costa Rica which is still low risk, but also want to consider places on the East Coast that are within reasonable driving distance for a week (9ish hours one-way is fine). I am in the middle of the mid-atlantic region. I’d like to be close to good hiking and maybe a water source (lake, river, etc. is fine), but really don’t need much else. I am content to basically hang out in the woods if there is a grocery store somewhere I can buy provisions along the way. I have been to Ashville already, where else should I consider? A few days in one place and then moving on to another a couple hours away would be fine. I don’t need to come into contact with people to enjoy my vacation, and am purposefully trying to think of something that would isolate me generally for CV19 purposes.

    I NEED a break from work, but don’t want to staycation. If things get horrifically worse and in the interest of other people’s wellbeing, I am open to defering PTO, but wanted to brain storm some ideas anyway.

    1. Cabin in West Virginia/North Carolina mountains. Stunning hiking and scenery that time of year, not crowded.

    2. I’ve spoken with my hubs about this as well. Until this thing is somewhat under control, due to my health issues, we’re avoiding public travel but are more open to outdoorsy “unlikely to run into many people” trips that are driving distance like hiking, water sports, glamping (I am not a true camper) etc. Seeing some of nature’s beauty seems like the best option right now.

    3. Smoky Mountains or Congaree if you want a national park. Or maybe Huntington Beach State Park in SC?

    5. Finger Lakes. Rent a house on the water, visit some wineries, do some hiking, etc. Had an awesome time up there one May a few years ago with a group of friends.

      1. Thank you! I went there last year, but if I hadn’t would definitely be on the list!! I should have mentioned that. Derp.

      2. I’m in the Finger Lakes. I’m afraid we’re on lockdown right now, and all the wineries are closed. Here’s hoping for better by early May.

    6. If it were me, I’d go to Acadia Nat’l Park in Maine. Or Green Mountains in Vermont.

  5. So here’s a question for y’all that has nothing to do with the corona.

    I’m mid 30s, and a few years ago ended up with some substantial injuries in a car crash. Cue a few years of regular physio, some time off work, and I am now back in BigLaw full time. I have healed from the injuries and while I can’t do anything that requires too much back / neck torquing or running, I have been cleared to do weights, spin, swim, etc. I have access to a gym. I’ve always been pretty active and pretty fit, but over the past 2 years I have gained 30 pounds just from being inactive while in recovery, working at a desk, getting into bad eating habits, and probably just metabolism slowing down.

    I am unhappy with this! Less with the number, but more because I am not as strong or as healthy as I want to be. I am scared this will turn into me suddenly being middle aged and disabled or otherwise unhealthy if I don’t re-build.

    How do I turn this around? How do I get back into going to the gym regularly, how do I turn around the stress eating, how do I deal with the fact that I’m in my mid 30s and likely have a couple of chronic weaknesses I will need to be careful of? How do people lose weight? Google has so many answers and I don’t know what to trust. I have never thought about any of this from a practical perspective, and I don’t know how to rebuild habits, especially while working long hours.

    I would love any suggestions. Thank you!!

    1. Continue to work out because exercise is good for you and fun. Practice intuitive eating and stop playing along with the scam that is the diet industry. Unless your weight is causing grave mobility problems, don’t worry about it.

      1. Not OP but I have wished for my entire adult life that I would think of exercise as fun.

        1. It’s about finding the form that’s fun for you! I know people mock Zumba sometimes but I love it. And over time I’ve actually started to love running too. Recently I’ve found a yoga/Pilates blend I like too. Weightlifting though? No thanks.

        2. Finding stuff that is fun is the key. I love hiking, skiing, mountain biking, rock climbing, dance class, and riding horses, but you couldn’t pay me to do the elliptical – I just hate it. I recommend finding something you like that’s more hobby-oriented and then something in the plain old gym that will help support that hobby and that you can tolerate or even enjoy. I do much better on the treadmill or rowing machine (or even climbing stairs) than on the elliptical and then I feel satisfied knowing I’m supporting my hobbies.

        3. You just have to find the right thing. Yoga’s my thing but other friends are into cross-country skiing, rock climbing, pilates, running, trail running, rowing and mountain biking. And some people just like the gym (I don’t get this one).

        4. I’m not going to try to convine you that you’ll find the right excerise that will be totally fun for you. But in the interest of moving your body – can you do something you feel is fun WHILE you exercise? I listen to ask me another, npr’s trivia podcast or a pop culture or comedy podcasts that are usually an hour while I do my weight lifting at the gym. I think the podcasts are amusing and a fun way to spend time, so by habit-stacking weight lifting and daily podcast listening, I get them both in.

        5. I do 30 minute workout videos on my phone WHILE watching sitcoms on tv. (I exercise in my living room and just move the coffee table.) I like 21 Day Fix from Beachbody because it’s all pretty simple – jumping jacks, push-ups, etc – and I can follow along with Golden Girls or whatever while still working up a sweat. Makes the time pass faster.

    2. If you can afford it, my best success with this was having a good personal trainer I saw twice a week. We did a combo of strength and cardio, and after about 9 months with her, I had lost all the wait I gained. She also made me track what I ate and since I’m a people pleaser, I didn’t snack as much because a) i was accountable to someone else for my food choices and b) I didn’t want to derail my progress and make the money I was spending on her less effective. Once I did that, I could manage myself in the gym better. Our workouts were early (6 am), but that was the only way I could reliably get there.

      However, the other part of this is mental, with almost CBT like techniques. That is, “why do I want to eat this piece of cake” or whatever your junk food of choice is.

      1. I agree – and maybe there is even a person who has expertise in helping people recover from injury. If it were me, I’d start with a call to wherever you did your PT and see what they recommend.

      2. +1. Find an experienced personal trainer and work out with them a couple of times a week. It made a huge difference for me.

      3. I’m having good luck with Noom, though I know it’s not for everyone. I do like the psychological side of it, which is helping me realize WHY I make the choices I do. Time will tell if it’s something I can stick with long term.

        Working out is something that’s good to do for mental health reasons as well as physical health as Anon at 9:59 says. Do what you can, but incorporating healthy whole unprocessed foods into what you’re eating is an easy way to start.

      4. Yes, this is exactly what I did (working with a personal trainer twice a week) and it’s been fantastic. I’ve gained a ton of muscle and it makes a big difference in body shape, how clothes fit, and also has seemed to boost my metabolism.

    3. Weight lifting will be more effective at changing your shape and your overall strength than cardio, so I’d put emphasis there in the short term. It would be worth working with a trainer for a few sessions to map out a plan and get modifications for things that will work for you.
      And you really have to modify your diet — the only thing that guarantees weight loss is eating fewer calories than you burn. For me, that has meant dramatically emphasizing protein and vegetables and fruits, which keeps me full without too many carbs or sugars.

    4. People lose weight through a variety of techniques that wind up in a calorie deficit. I’ve had success with Weight Watchers and currently with a personal nutrition coach. Stop thinking of working out as tied to weight loss- it’s about your food choices.

    5. I would start with Weight Watchers and I do the online program only. I like that you can enter your own recipes and that it also has lots of suggestions for ways to prepare fruits and veggies. I don’t buy any of their branded foods. The program focuses on lean protein and fruits and veggies. Learning to snack on fruits and veggies has been key.

      Weight loss is at least 80% diet and 20% exercise. Focus on your for a couple weeks, then look at adding exercise.

      I meal plan a lot (not prepping in advance, just planning what I will eat) – this helps me keep on track at the grocery store. I eat basically the same breakfast and lunch most days and add variety at dinner and snacks. This reduces how much I’m thinking about food so the learning to eat healthy doesn’t dominate my life.

      Think about if you are a moderator or abstainer. If a moderator, portion controlled foods like snack packs of almonds or whatever may be useful. I’m an abstainer, I need to not keep chips or candy in the house – I can’t moderate my trigger foods at all. I buy them as a treat on occasion but having to make a specific trip to the store acts as a disincentive most of the time.

    6. I’m in a very similar boat. I’ve always been a healthy weight and this year I broke my foot, then I sprained my neck and I also ended up on Prednisone for asthma and I started an antidepressant. I’m up 10 pounds and all of my clothes are too tight.

      I’m starting with low impact stuff like walking and yoga. A lot of the weight I gained wasn’t from not exercising but from not doing normal movement like going up and down the stairs at work and my house. I was also getting dropped off at the door of buildings instead of walking from parking spaces. I went from about 8,000 steps per day to under 500. So my first goal is to just generally get active again in a non-exercise based way.

      Once I billed back up some strength and stamina from that, then I will add back in some true exercise. I also realized that a lot of my regular diet is high in healthy fats (the stuff they tell people to eat when they try to gain weight) so I am going to try to cut back on some of those too.

    7. As a late 30’s person with very serious orthopedic/spinal issues I found the very best way to start was with a personal trainer who knows ALL your body’s quirks and can give you very clear guidance on how to lift without hurting yourself. Be clear that your goal is to in the next (6,12,18, whatever) months is to be able to go to a regular gym/specialty gym but know what to do safely for your body.
      I went to a variety of personal trainers and found the ones that taught me the basics of weight lifting, and one who was focused on reformer pilates (to really pound protecting/strengthening my core into my head) the most helpful. Cardio is kind of idiot proof, but if you’re a little shaky on your running form I’d encourage you to power walk at an incline – it’s a great workout with little impact!
      I agree – weights are the key to lose weight later in life. I currently do orange theory 3-4x/week and find it AMAZING for weight loss and physical conditioning, but really – find what YOU like to do.

    8. Hire a trainer and a nutritionist. Talk through your goals with a few of them and use your judgment on how professional, trustworthy, and how effective they are at getting their clients good results. It’s ok to want to change the shape of your body to be physically stronger/cardiovasularly healthy. Work with a nutritionist for a macro consult to understand what you’re eating, habits you want to add or get rid of, etc.

    9. Given your injuries, I agree with the people who suggest starting with a trainer to make sure you are exercising safely.

      Also, be patient with yourself! You went through a lot, and it’s going to take time to get your strength back. But I bet it will come back – reminds me of when I was sick for most of winter 2016-2017 with respiratory things and for months I had respiratory issues (really sensitive to pollution, more winded climbing stairs, etc.) and I thought I’d never feel normal again, and then one day, I realized I was feeling normal. It took a long time, but I got there.

      Good luck to you, really.

    11. If you have seen a physical therapist they will often do what they call Transition, in which they recommend a gym or class and pass on the knowledge of what they have done with you, what would be good or bad. It really helps.

    12. My mom has done pilates for ~25 years now. She’s in her 70s and moves like she’s in her 50s. (Even her example can’t make me do it though – I like heart pounding cardio/HIIT too much.)

    13. Bad back here. I would try to find activities that you enjoy that don’t flare you up. My P.T. said to try something three times and then if you can’t figure out how to make it work, move on. My back loves it if I walk and hike in summer and snow shoe in winter. It also loves swimming.

      It hates yoga, pilates and dance classes. Massive flare ups.

      It’s ok with a beach cruiser bike, but not a ten speed.

  6. WFH question! We are moving to liberal WFH policy immediately for coronavirus. I’m at the office today and then planning to work from home. People who’ve just done this, what things should I bring from the office that I’m not thinking of or can improve the experience? I’m set with the basics – laptop, phone, printer/scanner, online file access. Anything that’s been helpful?

    1. A screen.

      Post its, highlighters, etc – the type of things you don’t even think about reaching for when you’re in the office, but then immediately miss in a full day where you don’t have them!

    2. All the extra monitors!!!! I have a speaker that connects to Skype that I love having in my office – I would take that too, as my laptop speakers and mic are garbage.

    4. Printer paper, paper clips, and folders – basically organizing tools for if you have to print things out at home. Also extra pens!

      (YMMV, my work still uses a lot of paper)

    5. Wireless mouse, pens/post its/file folders, and if you can, I’d pick up some trays/catch alls/organizers at Target or online or whatever, Not having my desk be a mess of papers helps me focus.

    7. Monitors. A speaker phone if yours is portable. Otherwise you can get a good one for like $30 at Office Depot or staples. This assumes you have a landline.

    10. A headset if you have it and it works with your computer!!!!!! I’ve been WFH for a week now and having a headset and Skype for Business on my laptop has made this totally workable. A phone is good but if you have a headset it’s soooooo much better. I’ve had so many freaking conference calls the last week since no one is at the office.

      Branded envelopes if you have to send mail- assistants may not be able to. Certified mail slips, too, if that’s important.

      Anything you have to have for a key part of your setup to work, generally. I needed a CAC reader so I took the one from my office.

      An extra monitor- kind of wish I’d taken mine home. I’m currently making it work with my iPad and my Mac but two dedicated monitors would be great (my mac doesn’t support the two monitor capability with my iPad).

      All of the office supplies you don’t necessarily have at home- I grabbed a box of small binder clips, some of the folders with the top brad, and a two-hole punch. If you’re an attorney, grab an empty redwell or two, as well- nice to corral documents in if you don’t have a dedicated space in your home office.

      Hand sanitizer if your work still has bottles ;)

    11. I forgot envelopes, big and small, and letterhead. Your wireless headset unless you’re using personal cell phone/bluetooth.

  7. Has anyone seen Dr. Anitha Nair at Shady Grove Fertility in DC? I am 39 years old TTC #2 and just had my initial consultation with her. She seemed fine, but a friend did not like her. Curious to hear others’ experiences. TIA!

    1. You might want to post this on DCUM – a ton of people there use shady grove and you’re likely to get a lot of responses.

    2. I haven’t been to Shady Grove, but I have visited numerous other clinics in the DC area. I’d just note that Shady Grove as a whole has a reputation for wanting only the youngest, healthiest infertile people out there because they want to keep their numbers high. So if you’re someone with a normal BMI and no underlying health issues, Shady Grove could be your place. As someone with a high BMI and autoimmune issues, it was not going to be my place. Just an FYI!

    3. Great experience at SG twice, five years apart. Not with that doc, but you can always change docs if you want (that’s not weird, a friend did it and no one batted an eye). SG does have a weird rep, but was great for me, and I really really liked how extremely organized they are as compared to a friend’s experience at CFA (she got pregnant, but it was super stressful as staff kept dropping balls)

    4. If you decide not to pursue Shade Grove … I’m not in DC, but it looks like there’s a CCRM in your general region. I went to a CCRM in my local area and can’t say enough good things about my experience. I’m 42 and 20 weeks pregnant after a single round of IVF.

  8. My college kid’s flight home from Madrid was delayed, giving me palpitations, but she is finally in the air and on her way home. I am so relieved! I am wondering if she will be screened or if we will receive any instructions when she arrives in the US. I heard on the radio today there is no requirement to self-quarantine if you’re coming from Europe (Italy excepted) and not sick.

    1. CNN is saying that there is a quarantine if you are flying home from Europe but it is self-quarantine. Sorry your kiddo had to come home!

    2. I think she’ll be fine since ban doesn’t start until tomorrow. Granted this changes fast, but I flew back in to the country from the UK on Tuesday and was not asked a single question on the US side other than the standard “where were you, how much money are you carrying, do you have any alcohol” etc immigration questions. And surprisingly, the only question I was asked before I got on the plane was had I been to China within the last 14 days. Nothing about Italy.

    3. I’m glad she’s on her way! I’m curious as to whether she’ll be given instructions, and what the lack of self-quarantine means. Maybe you could look into what the best practices are in case no one informs her. It couldn’t hurt for her to practice social distancing for a bit if not choosing to self-quarantine.

    4. Given how 3 TSA agents at San Jose airport were diagnosed the other day, makes clear to me that airports are a really high exposure risk (tens of thousands of people shuffling through a badly ventilated space each day). I get that right now, we mostly have cut back to essential travel, like OP getting her kiddo back. I would definitely do some self quarantine after coming through an airport.

    5. We have an individual in the community who self-quarantined after returning from Europe and tested positive 4 days later. You can’t be too careful.

    6. For U.S. nationals: Evaluation only at the airport at this time and until 11:59 Friday, March 13. The new policy kicks in at midnight tomorrow. After midnight Friday, self-quarantine and possibly other measures.

      I work in communications at a major university. All COVID-19 policy right now …

    7. Glad she could take one of the last flights from Europe to USA after Trump restrictions. I do not know if it is required from US gob, but if she is returning from Madrid she should do self-quarantine.It is compulsory if you are flying from Spain to other America’s countries. It is with Italy and France the 3 european countries with more letal cases. Most of them in Madrid.
      Instructions in Madrid today are scholls, colleges, univ, public building, aports areas, museums, etc closed. And everyone that can work from home doing it (myself included) and not going to anywhere specially to other counties or regions.

  9. I know this is really a “know your employer” situation but I’m interested in what you all would recommend your spouse do in this situation. I’m 100% letting him make his own decision but he values my input.

    My husband is a federal law enforcement officer. Last year he was supposed to be re-certified in defensive tactics (the hands on wrestling stuff, not the shooting). That was cancelled because of the government shut down. His certification has now lapsed but he has a waiver due to the shutdown.

    He is scheduled now to travel (by air) later in the month to re-certify. Officers will be attending from across the US and will be physically wrestling each other. They are not cancelling the class at this point in time but saying that if any officer feels uncomfortable attending, they can cancel without repercussion. However, even if they say “without repercussion” he still has to deal with the very real safety issue that his certification will now be lapsed for two years as they only offer this training annually.

    He hates that he is being put in the position of saying “I’m not comfortable” instead of them just cancelling it. I’ve suggested he reach out to other attendees to try to cancel as a group but he doesn’t know who will be there except the one other person in his office who is in the same boat as him with an even further lapsed certification because she was on maternity leave the year before the government shutdown.

    There is no way to do this training virtually. You certify by physically doing the moves like if you were getting a belt in martial arts. Thoughts?

    If I were in charge of the agency, I would suggest having them amend the policy under emergency circumstances to allow them to certify via their local state police academy and their standards instead so no one has to travel and only has to wrestle someone in their own office. However, there is zero precedent for something like that and the feds have their own standards. You would think state police instructors could administer it though and just apply the fed standards. He doesn’t think there is any chance this would be adopted and he doesn’t want to be the one to suggest it.

    2. I would not want him to go. But if it’s still more than a week away, I think it’s likely that they will cancel it. This is a rapidly changing situation.

      1. +1 to rapidly changing situation.

        I know DH is in charge of a conference that is very likely to be cancelled even though no cases in our city yet. They are just trying to figure out the rescheduling before they announce.

        Given the nature of the event, sound pretty likely that that training will be cancelled, they are probably just debating whether to postpone to August or September.

    3. I think the germ loan from a plane > germ load from wrestling. But all those wrestling have been on a plane. If it were me, I’d go and just be vigilant the whole trip.

      [My mindset is that I flew again after 9/11 and then dealt with anthrax and the DC shooters, so my mind is putting something that is ~90% not lethal into the bucket that holds the flu, car travel, and getting MRSA at the gym. Maybe MRSA would be an equal concern to coronavirus in this instance. I do think that mild cases are probably wildly undercounted and will continue to be, so I feel that the lethality will ultimately be small over a large swath of people sickened.]

      1. Lethality will be small compared to the number of people that get it but there is a lot of focus on flattening the curve because the biggest risk is that if it spread quickly, the ICUs get overrun and can’t treat everyone while spikes the mortality rate. There’s already community transmission but if the spread can be slowed, there will be enough capacity in the hospitals to treat people who need hospital treatment when they do get sick.

      2. If you look purely at lethality, you are overlooking that lethality isn’t a naturally given number. 20% of people get serious symptoms, requiring hospitalization. We don’t have hospital beds for 20, 10, or even 5% of the population.
        In Italy, patient after patient is coming in with pneumonia and severe respiratory distress, needing support. Doctors have to triage who gets put on machines and who goes without.
        You should read this article showing how a sluggish response from Philadelphia for the spread of the Spanish flu lead to a mortality 8 times higher than in St Louis, where social distancing was practiced. The response changed the mortality rate!
        https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/12/pandemic-parade-flu-coronavirus/

      3. I know someone who had a child die of MRSA. Maybe cleanliness around coronavirus will make everywhere also safer re MRSA. It is no joke.

    4. I agree that it is unfair to put the burden of making the cancellation decision on employees. Witness yesterday’s “HR manager” discussion.

      My employer generally puts the onus on employees to make their own health and safety calls in all sorts of situations, which translates into pressure to show up to the office or take the trip no matter what. This past week I sent a carefully crafted e-mail to the head of HR, including links to other organizations’ COVID-19 policies and expert guidance, urging our organization to adopt a more proactive approach to travel and WFH in response to COVID-19. I don’t know what influence my input had, but within 48 hours the organization had issued clear guidelines that were virtually a word-for-word copy of one of the sample policies I had sent.

      I was in a good position to be the agitator because I am fairly senior in the organization, have a long-standing reputation for being unflappable in high-pressure situations and getting stuff done, and had decided (but did not tell anyone) that my BATNA was quitting immediately if I felt that my health was at risk. In fact, I felt it was my responsibility to raise the issue on behalf of others who feared retribution if they voiced their own concerns. Unfortunately, I’m not sure a federal law enforcement officer would be in the same position. He is dealing with a very different organizational culture, probably a requirement to go through his chain of command, and the federal government’s policy decision that this whole crisis must be swept under the rug as much as possible instead of being tackled head-on. Is he a union member? If so, that’s where I’d start.

      2. Go you! I am so glad you did that, for the sake of all the powerless men and women, and pregnant women who weren’t ready to announce yet, and people with health concerns who didn’t want to speak up, and everyone else.

    5. This problem is rampant in government agencies. Employees are being encouraged to ask to telework, but the agencies aren’t making telework mandatory because it could upset the administration. This, of course, puts those who don’t have telework positions at terrible risk, as all the buildings stay open… I’m hopeful that they cancel the training, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

    7. Your third paragraph is exactly the solution; too bad they aren’t entertaining it. What an awful situation.

  10. I have a colleague with a college student daughter studying abroad in Italy, I want to reach out to him and see how she is doing but I don’t want to be nosy and pry if the situation is bad. I think deep down the desire to reach out is for my own peace of mind than for him, which is giving me second thoughts. Would you?

    1. If you reach out, I think you can say something like, “I know your daughter is in Italy, so my thoughts are with you and your family right now.” I think it’s generally not a great idea to ask about these kinds of things when the answer could be bad and you’re not a close friend, especially when you realize that your questioning is more about your own peace of mind.

    2. I would reach out in a way that doesn’t ask for a response. “Keeping you and your daughter in my thoughts in light of the quarantines in Italy.” If things are bad, it gives them the space to respond when they can or the next time they see you. If things are good then they’ll probably respond quickly. Either way it’s a really nice gesture!

      1. I will be shocked if the child is still in Italy. Both my daughters’ colleges called the Italy kids home 2-3 weeks ago. But don’t hesitate to reach out. I am grateful for every person who has asked about my daughter in Spain.

    3. I think you can bring it up in casual conversation but I wouldn’t reach out if you’re not that friendly with this guy.

  11. A lot of people at my office are working from home, which the boss hates but has grudgingly allowed, and my sources at the office tell me that she is being the friendliest they have ever seen to the people who are still there, including buying them donuts. Despite the fact that we have billable hours and she can easily verify exactly how productive I am, she’s clearly rewarding her favorites (who just happen to be the people without concerning health conditions) merely for being in the office. Ableist much?

    Vent over. Just really tired of feeling like I have to defend myself constantly for needing to work from home for health reasons, especially when I’m a top performer.

    1. You’re fine. She’s allowed to be nice to people during a scary time. At least you can still work remotely and earn an income – many people are in a much worse position than you. And stop focusing on whether or not you are a top performer. This isn’t about you.

      1. Trust me when I say there’s more to it than that, but I don’t want this to become one of those threads where I have to keep jumping in to provide context so I don’t sound insane. Can you just let me be frustrated and spend 45 seconds typing a vent on an anonymous forum, please?

          1. Not the OP, but you’re assuming that you know more about the situation than the OP does.

            You can find a lot of good advice here, but it gets incredibly frustrating when people assume that the OP is wrong in her perception. The problem is that a lot of us (understandably) want to remain anonymous, and posting enough details to explain the situation would entail posting enough details for random people reading this to figure out who you are. IMHO, the best solution is to assume that the OP has a good handle on things, and, if you think she’s missing something, address that.

          2. It’s also frustrating to feel like you need to offer endless caveats before you ever post about a minor problem – “I know others have it worse,” “I know this is a first-world problem,” “I know this isn’t that important in the grand scheme…” It’s just defensive verbal clutter and I wish we could get rid of it on this site.

        2. If you don’t want feedback or responses you need to be clear about that in your post, but please don’t think you won’t get any just because you don’t want any. The community here is based on posts and replies. If you just want to vent to an entity that won’t talk back, vent to your cat next time.

          1. I mean…that’s why you say it’s a vent. Vents typically aren’t asking for advice, their looking for commiseration. Your cat won’t commiserate with you. You’re being a little obtuse.

    3. Sorry. It’s stressful to have to change up your job routine and worry about being sick if you’re immunocompromised, or have a family member who is. To have to worry about the boss being capricious, on top of that, really sucks.

    4. Do you work for my boss? She brought us donuts yesterday too, for the (small number of) folks in the office. She also made a big deal of “WFH if you need to, but just so you know I am going to be in the office.” Way to set an example! I feel you.

  12. The conference I’ve been working on for a year just got cancelled. Absolutely the right thing to do but still gutting, all that wasted time as someone who doesn’t have the time to spare (academic on a temp contract – could have written so many papers). And the conference in France that I was so looking forward to got cancelled as well.

    My best friend’s wedding guests are dropping out en masse and who knows what will happen for my sister in laws funeral next week. While appreciate we are all currently healthy and have the resources to weather the storm, it just feels devastating. Just waiting for schools to close.

    3. I’m sorry, it just stinks. These are second-order problems, but they are still disappointments and it’s okay to be sad/frustrated about them.

      It feels so much like the days right after 9/11, when everything was terrible and no one knew whether the worst had happened or was still coming, and when or how it was going to get better. I had a milestone European trip scheduled to start on 9/13 that ended up being postponed for more than a year. A dear friend got married at the end of September, but only local friends and family could attend because airlines hadn’t resumed flying.

      We all need to be kind to each other, these are strange and anxious times.

      1. I remember how all late night shows and any comedy on TV was cancelled for weeks after 9/11 and I was like ‘but I need distraction from all this!’ Clearly not something I said out loud and I knew I was being selfish.

    4. I’m really sorry. I’m on a college campus and our conferences and special events are getting cut left and right. It’s the right thing to do, but I hear you: it’s gutting when you’ve put that much time and effort into something.

    6. The only bright spot I’ll offer: hopefully, you’ll be able to repurpose some of the work for a future conference. Ironically enough, about 14 years ago, I did a lot of work on the avian flu scare. Didn’t get much business out of it and was frustrated by that, until three weeks ago, when suddenly almost everything I did has become incredibly relevant and is generating lots of business. Hopefully you’ll have a similar experience.

  13. In an interview or information al phone call, how do you find out if a would-be boss is micromanage-y?

    I currently have a micromanager of a boss and don’t want one in my next job. I do not do well at all in that situation. I’ve been trying to ask like “what’s the team set up?” and “how is work assigned?” but not sure that gets at it

    1. Ask what the communication structure is between the position and its manager, and steer toward a concrete answer. Examples: We just check in as needed, when something specific comes up. We have a weekly 30-minute meeting. We have a spreadsheet that tracks all tasks and needs to be updated every time you go to the bathroom.

    2. I would just ask them what their management style is – when i’m interviewing candidates I like to ask them how they like to be managed, but I’m not caught off guard if they ask how I work as a manager. I think that’s a question people should expect! Not that everyone is necessarily self-aware to know if they are a micromanager, but worth a shot.

    3. And if they describe a unicorns and rainbows style of management, “I trust my people to do their jobs,” concluding with “I’m not a micro-manager,” run for the hills!

    4. Ask what their management style is, what their subordinates would say about strengths and weaknesses and what they do to support the main goals of the position. Ask about reporting structure and expectations of reporting while completing projects. Ask how much autonomy the person would have. And listen between the lines. And if they refuse to answer, run. I always talk about my management style, talk about relationships with higher management, related teams etc as a manager when interviewing. I think people appreciated it.

    5. Not sure if relevant in this case, but sometimes asking about approval process for things is a good indicator of culture. As a department head, I like to ask how budget for certain things are handled. For example, if I have a budget that I manage and can adjust allocations for things like external training, equipment, or travel, what is the process for that? Hearing how things get approved usually gives me a clue about how not only my future boss, but the company in general, handle decision making and how much would be in my hands vs needing lots of layers of approval.
      If you’re an individual contributor or middle-management, perhaps asking about how requests for time off, work from home, or education reimbursement are handled?

  14. Caveat that I fully understand how serious the situation is becoming. What’s good in everyone’s lives right now?

    Mine is that my sister got a great new job, and my dog is really responding to our work training him.

    1. My 80ish parents’ hermit lifetsyle is finally a feature, not a bug. Rural mountaintop living with backup generator for the win! They have a well and also a wood burning fire place.

      2. This is my dream. It’s not far off from where I am now, other than I’m not in the mountains and I’m still on the grid, but one of these days my goal is to be a hermit (hermette?) in the mountains.

    2. My yoga practice is really strong. I’ve started doing 10-12 classes a month and I’m getting so much stronger. I did my first wheel and headstand (with help) and am about to advance to power classes, as I’m feeling the need for more of a challenge. I’ve also really been focusing on a meditation practice after someone shared a study about the efficacy of meditation in reducing cortisol (12-14 weeks of regular practice, blood tests pre and post meditation showing a dramatic decrease in cortisol) and am feeling a bit more even keel, despite a very anxiety producing few weeks.

      1. You are a hero – I’m so sorry about the loss of your SIL especially, but everything else going on too! Thanks for sharing.

        1. Thank you! It’s awful but at least she’s not suffering. Just looking forward to the funeral – think we’ve been in limbo since it happened.

    3. I’ve been trying to cook “real food” (i.e., not take out or sandwiches/salads that don’t require any cooking) at least once a week. So far so good! All those cookbook recommendations I asked for ages ago have come in handy. I’ve learned a thing or two, in addition to eating healthier and saving money. I’m hoping to keep this up and slowly start cooking more, now that I’m comfortable with some basics.

        2. I included some links, so my comment is stuck in moderation. Hopefully it will show up soon.

    4. – My half-marathon training is going well.
      – I had an awesome evening outdoors with my kids last night.
      – I’m feeling lucky (and guilty) for my relative privilege, given the current situation. If school is called off, it will be hard from a work standpoint, but staying home with my kid for a week isn’t going to cause huge financial hardships.

    5. I can SEEEEE! I got the vizian lens implant last week. Best $$$ I’ve ever spent. No recovery time, no more contacts, no glasses, no lugging around travel bottles of clear care when I travel, no more dry eyes, no more eye allergy drops! Just perfect vision as soon as I open my eyes in the morning, all day and all night long. And if I fall asleep or take a nap I never have to think about taking out my contacts again. I’ve been wearing contacts every day since I was about 15 years old so this feels so freeing.

      1. Never heard of this, but it sounds great. How was your vision before? I am now (late 40s) wearing mild reading glasses over a strong distance prescription, and having some sort of surgical intervention is starting to be appealing.

        1. Mid fives, pretty bad. Visian inplant corrects nearsightedness only, unfortunately. Everyone will need reading glasses at some point and it doesn’t fix that. But as it stands I should have about 20 years of perfect vision before that kicks in. My natural eyes did not have thick enough lens to do lasik so I opted for the implant, same technique as cataract surgery, which docs have been doing since the 70’s so I felt safe that the risk of something going wrong was low.

          1. How did you find someone willing to do that? As a 20-something, the ophthalmologistJ evaluating me for LASIK turned me down for the type of operation you got as well, basically for being too young.

    6. The guy that I’m interested in asked me out for a date. We met about a month ago when he moved to my city because we are in the same friend group (and some of our mutual friends wanted to set us up), and have hung out more than a dozen times since then with friends. He is the first guy I’ve been really interested in for years, and I’m so excited

    7. At the end of last night’s rehearsal, the (awesome) director of our (not so awesome but they really try) choir said, “We actually made music!”

    8. I posted last week asking for thoughts on a desk and got great advice to look at second hand furniture stores, went to one Saturday and picked up a beauty! Making my WFH life much more productive than I was when sitting on the couch.

    9. I’m really happy with the results of my nip/tuck a couple of weeks ago. And I’m back at the gym and doing really well with my new resolve to work out almost every day.

      Sticking with my pescatarian diet and really liking it a lot.

      And yesterday my son completed the 3,000 client hours required to be licensed as a marriage and family therapist! Hooray!!

    10. Keep reminding myself (and pinching myself!) that I’m pregnant after a 2 year infertility journey. 4 months and everything looking good so far!

    12. I’ve been working out twice a week for five months and I have actual muscles. I can flex my arms and see muscles. I can run on the treadmill. I can lift weights. My body is strong. I’ve been a 98 lb weakling (not literally, but not far off) my whole life, and now, at age 36 I am finally being consistent enough to see real results.

    13. I get my cast (from bunion surgery) off in 6 days AND THEN I CAN FINALLY WALK AGAIN!!

    14. I love this post and thank you! I’m in NYC where it’s crazy! We have television up all around my office with the news constantly talking about the stock market and virus so there’s literally no escape.

      I’m enjoying my new job and getting healthier by working out.

    15. I’m in remission from my cancer. My son is graduating from medical school and with Match Day next Friday he’ll find out where he will be for residency. My daughter is moving back to our home state and just passed a critical certification exam for Critical Care RNs, so getting a good new job should be easier. She has a sweet new/old boyfriend she reconnected with. And I get a bonus tomorrow!

    16. Thanks for posting this!

      I am very content with my life right now. I have a good job, good colleagues, a cozy home, two ridiculously adorable little dogs who love me unconditionally, good neighbors, my family and friends are healthy, and I am able to participate in the hobbies I want to. Life is good.

    17. I had a ONS last night (or maybe it will turn out not to be). Much needed and I feel great.

    18. me and DH navigated a tough decision very well through excellent communication! I am so proud of us (and me, to whom thinking before speaking does not come easily)!

  15. Anyone else in Boston and irrationally — no, actually rationally — annoyed that:

    1. The biotechnology industry of all people started the outbreak here and also can’t seem to get their acts together to get a treatment or vaccine over the finish line in time to actually help people

    2. On top of this, they will surely charge people their life savings for such a treatment if they can ever get it done

    I just feel like if the tech industry were in charge of this, we’d already have solutions.

    1. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      Being in tech, you should know that a situation is never as simple as outsiders view it to be

    2. I feel like if the tech industry were in charge of this, they’d have given themselves options and created a shuttle service just for them (that some hourly worker with no benefits would have to clean) and food delivery and have increasingly relied on low-paid abused people who can’t telework while using this to monetize themselves or get another round of funding.

    3. This is totally irrational. The virus emerged three months ago and you already expect a vaccine? It’s apparent you don’t know thing one about biotechnology or how advances in medicine happen.

      “I just feel like if the tech industry were in charge of this, we’d already have solutions”

      OMG. What? I’m sorry, what exactly does the tech industry do these days other than sell people advertising, invent recording spyware devices for people to put in their home or wear on their wrists, and create startups that are “The Uber of ____” or “The Warby Parker of ______”? Which are all now failing, BTW.

      1. +1! The tech industry can’t even manage to include a button in my food tracking app to account for pregnancy (=different diet for a certain period of time, it’s not hard, but if all your colleagues are tech-bros, how would they EVER know that people can get pregnant), because they are so out of touch.

      1. Exactly.

        The reason that Elizabeth Holmes was able to fleece tech VCs was they expect that very novel things can be produced incredibly quickly. Biotech VCs weren’t buying that she could develop that fast.

        1. +1 – Biotech doesn’t allow for disruption the way Silicon Valley would like. There are constraints, like how biology actually works.

    5. What. Even. If the tech industry was in charge of this your vaccine would implant a tracking device in you in order to optimize ad display.

      Drug development takes time. No one is dragging their feet over this.

    6. I don’t work in biotech and I do agree it’s pretty ironic that the biotech industry is at the center of the outbreak here, but to the 2nd half of that point, I lived through Sars in a country with a strong biotech industry. Was a science journalist at the time. In all likelihood they are working nonstop on it but vaccine development takes time. First you need to characterize the virus, understand how and why it gets through the body’s defenses, develop some potential vaccines, and then – here’s the thing that takes a long time – test and validate them in several stages. You need to make sure they’re safe. Then you need to make sure they’re effective. Two years after Sars, the first clinical trials for potential vaccines were just starting. I understand the urgency and panic, but you can’t really magic your way to a solution.

      1. Also, researchers working on SARS had trouble getting their work funded as soon as the outbreak went away. Vaccine development only ever gets funded when it’s on people’s minds.

        1. Yep. We would have a vaccine or at least good treatments for this virus now if we hadn’t abandoned all research (due to lack of funding) as soon as the immediate threat of SARS went away.

      2. I read your piece on growing up with SARS! It was great. I’ve read your stuff since you were at your previous gig. Keep up the great work!

        1. Aw! I’m Anon 12:16, and I’m not sure which piece you’re thinking of, but that wasn’t me! :)

    7. “Go fast and break things” –> not how I want my vaccines made. Are they going to test it on the cloud? Or with an app? WTF. I know Silicon Valley is supposed to be a fictional TV show but IMO it’s not wrong.

    8. It’s impossible to run clinical trials overnight? Healthcare costs money and someone has to pay it (looking at you, socialized medicine)? If the tech industry were in charge, that would still be capitalism? The tech industry does not have to pass FDA safety and efficacy standards?

      If the tech industry were in charge, the solutions might catch fire spontaneously?

    9. Whaaaaaat? So I work in this industry.
      -Simply growing the cells to make a vaccine takes time. I’m not in vaccines, but when you grow stuff in mammalian cells (not vaccines) it takes 4 – 6 weeks/batch.
      -Then you need to actually design the vaccine that you want to grow – that can’t be done overnight, either.
      -Once you’ve designed the vaccine and grown it, you have to test it in invitro panels to make sure it inactivates the virus.
      -After that, it is tested in animals to make sure it doesn’t have any massive side effects.
      -Then it is tested in humans to see if it is SAFE and effective.
      -Then it goes on the market. Because of laws regulating vaccine access (the Affordable Care Act among them) it cannot be sold for a substantial profit.

      It takes a long time, and it absolutely cannot be skipped because of the public health impact of a poorly designed vaccine. When vaccines skip the testing process, you end up with things like the 1970s flu vaccine that gave people Guillain Barre syndrome – and set the stage for the anti-vax movement today.

      Making a treatment is much, much harder and will take longer. Also, if we are making a prophylactic treatment, the regulatory burden is (understandably) much higher, because you are giving it to healthy people.

      The time it takes to bring a drug to market is indeed long. The process is heavily regulated because the impacts of getting it wrong can be worse than the disease. The regulatory agencies will trim some time off of this process for a desperately needed drug, but I certainly wouldn’t trust my life to one that hasn’t been through this process.

      Any drug will indeed be extremely expensive, in part because it isn’t a long-term drug, and because the US does not have adequate systems for ensuring that drugs are affordable. Companies function to make as much money as they can for their shareholders. The US refusal to meaningfully regulate (or even negotiate!!!) drug prices means that the pharmaceutical industry thrives on the backs of Americans, while ROW gets drugs for 50 – 80 % + less than we do. Take it up with your congress members – I know I have.

    10. Right. The tech industry has had such flawless execution since the beginning of time. Eye roll

    11. I’m not in pharma, but this is a really stupid hot take. Pharmaceutical companies are rushing to produce remdesivir and other anti-virals that may be effective. There are clinical trials of multiple drugs already taking place in the US. People seem optimistic there will be FDA-approved anti-virals for this by next month, which is part of why there’s so much emphasis on flattening the curve – even if most of us will eventually get it, the longer we can delay it, the more time we have to develop treatments. A vaccine is also in development, but will take way longer, because a vaccine you inject into healthy people has a much higher safety threshold than a treatment you give to seriously ill people.

    12. “I just feel like if the tech industry were in charge of this, we’d already have solutions.”

      I literally LOL’d at this. Thanks for the laugh!

      1. Oh, we’d have solutions! It’s just none of them would work.

        Also – the tech industry (biotech) IS on it. They’re dealing with more complicated coding problems than Silicon Valley is right now. If Silicon Valley can’t produce working AI in less than 3 months, I’m not sure why you thinking they’d do better with actually biology.

    13. The FDA has very stringent requirements for vaccine clinical trials which makes the process to approval very long and expensive (even in situations like this where there’s expedited approval processes). If a vaccine is going to be administered to large groups of people it needs to be tested extensively in a very large population to demonstrate efficacy and safety.

      I would blame the FDA here over biotech/pharma.

      1. Facepalm. No.

        The approval process is not going to be the long pole here. The FDA is going to work to get this on the market as soon as (safely) possible – the long pole will be either figuring out the solution, and then gathering the data to show that it works. Which, yes, is all stuff the FDA requires, but also because you haven’t done the public health any good by letting everyone think they are treated/vaccinated when they’re NOT. The FDA requires it because its important, not to be obstructionist.

        FDA understands the urgency difference between vaccines like this and other types of drug development. If you want to blame something, blame Mother Nature and biology, because that’s what we’re fighting here.

    14. To your #2, I know this is probably an unpopular viewpoint, but if they want my life savings, for doing work that is life-saving, they can have em.

    15. Tech companies can’t pivot that quickly! First they need to hit pause on all the things, and draft and release communication to be used with external stakeholders. They need to get aligned on expectations regarding working from home. The senior leadership team needs to meet and discuss priorities, then once they agreed, lay out a roadmap to make sure resources are properly allocated to those priorities. That doesn’t happen overnight. It’s a lot of all-hands meetings, town hall meetings, team meetings, touchbases, etc. and maybe by this time next week everyone will know what’s now expected of them and what their job is going to look like for the next few months.

      I do think some tech companies will pivot. Amazon will think of how they can better use their warehouse robots and delivery drones to ensure people get what they need. Edtech companies will focus on products that enable remote learning. Restaurant tech companies (think companies that make POS hardware and software) are thinking about how they can support their clients who will likely struggle financially in the coming months. And companies in the healthcare sector will figure out how they can best use their resources and talent to help. But even figuring out what that new path looks like is gonna take at least a week. The bigger the company, the longer it’ll take.

    16. I’m not going to join the pile-on – I see this as a vent and frustration at the overall situation. Let’s not view it too literally.

  16. I’ve been a runner for a couple of years now but have increased my mileage quite a bit over the past few months to prepare for a half marathon. My legs — which are thicker side to begin with — are gradually getting even bigger. From what I can tell, it’s all muscle because the rest of me has remained the same. What the heck, man? My pants are not fitting! I didn’t even think it was possible to bulk up from running.

    1. You totally can though! When I was in high school, at the beginning of the skinny jean era, my friends and I would notice that the nice new jeans we had bought for back to school were a lot tighter on the calves at the end of cross-country season!

    2. It’s a pain where skinny jeans are concerned, but I love the legs I’ve got from running. An outward symbol of power and stamina.

    3. My college friend who was a D1 middle distance runner had a terrible time buying pants, and this was in the ’90s when mom jeans originated and skinny jeans were not a thing.

    5. It largely depends on the brand, but I’ve found buying straight leg jeans fit my athletic legs like skinny jeans.

      1. Which ones do you like? My favorite so far have been Ariat stackable but I’d love some in more interesting washes.

  17. Has anyone started botox or fillers at an earlier age? Late 20s and would love any advice or experiences!

    1. I started in my early 30s and people never guess that I am two months from 40. I only do my elevens, but it makes all the different IMO. The longer you do it, the less often you have to get a refresher. I can go 8 – 9 months when I am regularly going. When I take a year off, I can go back and it lasts me six months. HIGHLY recommend using it for specific areas and sparingly. I have yet to up my units.

      1. I have a friend who started doing her 11s in her late 20s. It makes a big difference in some women who have very pronounced lines that would benefit.

      2. Did you have visible 11s in your early 30’s whe you started? Or are you starting it before it becomes visible in wihch case how do you decide what specific areas to target? My mom doesn’t really have 11’s and I take after my dad’s side of the family in bone structure and skin tone anyway, I feel like it’s really hard to tell what will wrinkle until it wrinkles and I don’t want to shoot units in my face on just a guess.

      3. Anon at 1:19 here. Yes, my 11s were very pronounced and left a little divot during my resting face. It was the only part of my face I didn’t like. If you don’t have wrinkles or 11s, I don’t suggest starting Botox. That would be a waste of money.

    2. I got Botox on forehead and 11s at the age of 30 and I’m not going back. Haven’t seen these results from any of the many, expensive face creams and serums I did and continue to use.

      Before Botox, I had forehead creases at the end of the day but not upon waking up, so the lines weren’t permanent yet; I did not expect them to vanish with the Botox but tbh they totally did. I’d go for it at least once, see how you like it, and if so keep it up.

  18. So one thing I realized today that since all meetings are virtual, there’s no physical meeting room that you only reserve for a set amount of time, and no “oop, we’re being kicked out, someone has this room booked” to cue a wrap-up. Virtual meetings could run a lot longer a lot more often now, it’s a good idea to mentally plan for that extra 30 minutes.

    1. I announce I have a hard stop at the beginning and then jump off when I want/need to. I send a notice that I am doing so in the chat function. I can’t stand when meetings run over because everyone books them on the half and full hour back to back.

      1. Our company has changed the default meeting lengths in Outlook to 25 and 45 minutes. It has helped a LOT with that.

    3. Book yourself a phone call starting whenever you need to be off… with “Maggie” on your “pet” project with Maggie being your dog.

  19. Posted here not too long ago complaining about my large mgmt consulting employer that cancelled internal travel but allowed domestic travel. They have now cancelled all travel for the next two weeks at least. So relieved to see they’re doing the right thing!

    1. Ah good! My consulting firm has not banned client travel but is sending daily updates and now requesting us to WFH. I have some colleagues in COVID hot spots right now and I hope they aren’t expected to travel next week but they probably will.

  20. Are we allowed to talk about the stock market here? Because, oof. I’m a Great Recession graduate so this is my first time having investments in the market during a downturn. I checked my accounts this morning and I about could have keeled over. This all feels a bit surreal. I don’t understand the European travel ban and apparently a lot of investors feel the same way as me. Also, what’s this going to mean come November?

    1. I haven’t even checked because I’m too scared to know. I just don’t understand why Trump isn’t taking action to protect his precious stock market. I know he doesn’t care about human lives, but why isn’t he announcing firm, decisive measures (not this asinine Europe travel ban) merely to soothe investors? I thought that’s all he cared about.

      1. You assume he is capable of coherent decision making or listening to those that are.

      2. well that’s literally all he did last week. Floating tax cuts, tax deferrals, pushing interest rate cuts. Talking about the economy nonstop. It slightly stabilized stock markets last week, for some time.
        But you do realize, that the stock market volatility is the symptom, and the global health crisis is the cause, right? So, doctoring the symptoms is only going to get you so far, while people are worried about the fallout of hospitalization of 20% of people, many of them older people who sit at positions of responsibility in all sectors. Addressing the spread, such as through the travel ban, is addressing the cause.

        1. The travel ban is not addressing the problem. It’s a distraction. South Korea tests almost twice as many people every single day as the US has tested since January. It’s the worse testing situation of any country affected so far.

          The US has a lot of unacknowledged community spread. Rigorous testing, social distancing and increased WFH and no large scale community gatherings may start to flatten the curve slightly but that’s the best that can be hoped for right now. Those things are starting to happen (NBA and NHL cancelled), not because of Trump but despite his wholly incompetent leadership.

          Both Merkel in Germany and the Canadian Health Minister have advised people that as much as 70% of the population may be affected so it is important to take all public health advice seriously. Pretending this is not a problem means the curve will not flatten and ICUs will be overwhelmed like in Italy. And northern Italy has a very solid healthcare system – the same cannot be said of the US.

          1. I am completely with you, but just because we should be testing more people, doesn’t mean that we can’t also do other things. We have community spread and so do countries in Europe. If you think it’s a good idea to reduce mass-gatherings, I’d think that would include mass gatherings that happen to be in airports and little metal boxes and include a lot of untested people from countries with community spread.

          2. Then advise people to avoid all non-essential travel. Announce that government workers are not doing any domestic or international travel and encourage companies to do the same. Randomly selecting 26 countries to ban, and not doing anything about domestic travel or encouraging the cancellation of mass gatherings, is not an evidence based approach. Those countries (other than Italy) are only showing higher rates because they are actually properly testing and tracking the spread. Both UK and Germany have drive through testing as only one example. Denmark and Ireland just shut schools to try and flatten the curve and get ahead of what Italy did. If you close schools after it’s in the schools, it’s too late – you already have increased community spread – that’s what Italy did. We are not learning from what happened in Italy, other countries are.

    2. I joked with my husband that I don’t know what’s harder – not touching my face or not checking our retirement balances. Just reminding myself that even in the Great Recession it all came back to pre-recession levels in <5 years, and we're ~30 years from retirement. It is scary though.

    3. IDK but every major candidate (other than Tulsi) is old enough to stay at home and self-quarantine right now and definitely avoid large gatherings.

    4. I just want to thank everyone here that advised me months ago to take money that I was going to need possibly this year out of index funds and move it to my savings account. Thank goodness I did. Of course, don’t try to time the market but once you know you are going to have to access some funds, have them somewhere safe! I was bummed to be missing some gains but there’s a chance I’ll need that money this month and it would have been terrible to have to sell now.

      1. I may have been one of those people. In September/October of 2018, we put an offer on a house and didn’t sell funds for our down payment right away. It was on our list of things to do, but it was a busy time. The stock market had been up since November of 2016, and I didn’t think a few days would matter. A few days turned into a week or two, the market dipped (but not like now), and we lost a couple thousand dollars (about 5% of our down payment amount). I suppose it’s not the end of the world, but it still feels like a really dumb mistake. There’s just no way to predict what the market will do in the short term.

      2. Yeah, we have been idly house-hunting for a while and were just about to ramp it up into action. Got the pre-approval for the loan, started up the search in earnest ….. and now our accounts look like we’d expected they would AFTER we pulled the 20% down payment out. (cries in Californian). I don’t think we’ll be acting on it soon.

    5. I’m genuinely worry the election will be canceled, because the GOP – after ignoring this for months – will suddenly claim it’s not safe for people to be going to the polls to vote.

        1. I’m not saying there’s a valid reason for the election to be canceled. But I can see the GOP canceling it – especially if polls predict a massive victory for Democrats – and blaming it on this virus.

          1. Oh FFS. They aren’t going to cancel the GD election. Calm down.

          2. I guarantee Trump will try something like that. I don’t know how you can roll your eyes so hard when you’re head’s so far in the sand.

      2. I’m being an optimist and hoping it will prompt more states to look at doing all mail-in ballots like Washington

      3. Election will be fine. This is likely going to peak over the summer. It’ll get a lot worse before it gets better but current predictions are that it will probably run its course in 5-6 months.

        2. Maybe. Some experts theorize that it will slow down over the summer as weather warms up, and pick back up in the fall.

          1. But even if it picks back up in the fall, there will be 6 months of experience with treatments and therapies out there so the knowledge base on treatment and containment will be much greater. We’re only a couple months into this so it’s a catch up game right now in terms of how to treat it effectively.

    6. It means the economy will be down in November & the Democrats will win…..IMHO.

    7. I’m not looking at my balances. It wouldn’t serve any purpose. I have 10+ years left to work, and I’m not going to sell in a down market. I’ve always wondered how I would react to a crash and now I know. It’s not what I’m losing sleep over.

    8. Where is the poster who is constantly crowing about how it doesn’t matter how horrible Trump is because she’s making a fortune in the market?

      OP, hang in there. Over the long run, markets rebound. If you graduated in the recession you have a long ways to go before retirement. It’s so disheartening to see your balance deteriorate so quickly but keep plugging away and don’t stop contributions — you want to be buying at a discount, lol. I’d be panicking if I were, say, 62.

      Also, the last week is why you should never ever put your emergency fund in the stock market.

  21. As a mid-30s worker currently in a low tax bracket that I expect to outgrow soon, are there any drawbacks to consider before doing a Roth conversion in my IRA right now? The value tanked this week to the point where it’s actually feasible, I just don’t want to miss something obvious before I hit go.

    Thanks in advance!

    2. I would do it. I was in a similar situation when I left my first job and had a 12% effective tax rate that year. I regret not doing the conversion because I’ll never have a tax rate that low again.

      1. +1
        Agree that this is the perfect time to do your conversions.
        I did the same thing.
        Well done for thinking of this!

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