Thursday’s TPS Report: Scoop-Neck Belted Dress

Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Laundry by Shelli Segal Scoop-Neck Belted DressI dig the pleat details on this scoopneck belted dress, as well as the bright, happy color.  I’d probably swap out the belt for a leather one and wear a subdued blazer with it for the office — possibly even pearls.  It was $185, but is now $99 at  Laundry by Shelli Segal Scoop-Neck Belted Dress
Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail [email protected]


  1. Does it bother anyone else that there are now two shows on ABC with b*tch in the title?

    • Anonsensical :


    • PharmaGirl :


      • I also agree. There is NO show with Bast***ard, so WHY is there one that make’s fun of WOMEN? FOOEY! I hate it when men make a joke about US. I am not as svelte as the so-called B****tch on that show, but I have hair JUST like her!

        The manageing partner yesterday said that I could take off for the MEMORIAL day holiday, so I am going to SOUTH Carolina with my friend, Emma. YAY!!!!!

    • I find sexually charged insults facinating. B is, apparently, almost completely OK now, but C is almost unheard (as in, I’m not sure that I’ve actually ever heard anyone say it out loud). On the converse side, it’s almost completely acceptable, and I do it too, to call a man a D or a P – saw a pretty family friendly sitcom the other day where a woman shouted out “You D!” at her husband, for example (it was intended playfully, but I can’t imagine a sitcom that portrayed a husband shouting “You B!” at his wife with the same good humor). Though I can’t imagine them putting either of those in the title of a show. And why is A-hole so rarely used for women? The whole thing is so weird.

      I’m not sure if we want to *own* B or not. I guess that’s the idea of these shows’ titles (along with things like “Skinny B” workouts and so on).

      • You think it’s “almost completely acceptable” to call a man those things? Whoa! Not in my world, it isn’t. At least not in public.

        • Yeah, agreed. And I can’t imagine a show on a major network having a male insult in the title (of any sort, either the ones you provided or something else, although I’m not sure if there are other male-specific insults).

          What sitcom was it? I’m really surprised. Is it on a network?

          • Yeah, it was “Up All Night” (NBC? – I caught it on Hulu) I’m not sure when it comes on, but it’s usually pretty PG – cute baby, neurotic boss, wacky neighbors, pretty standard (at least, but for the part where there’s a stay at home dad and a breadwinner mom, which is awesome).

            It was actually a cute enough scene – the wife had complained about something the husband had done, and then said that he could tell her anything that he has to say about her, and he responded with something sappy about how she gets more beautiful and he loves her more every day, and that was her exasperated response, followed by some mock pillow-fighting.

            And I hear men called D or P all of the time. Usually as in “That guy’s a real —-, you know?.” I’m really surprised that you guys don’t.

          • Oh, and when I’m saying “P” for guys, I’m thinking of the one that refers to male genitalia. I didn’t actually think of the other P word, but I guess that opens up a whole new set of questions (see also, “Doosh,” which could also be said to be sexually charged). Both of which are also used pretty frequently to apply to guys in my experience.

            I could maybe envision an off-beat cable show called “A-hole” about a guy who was one. But not a network one.

          • For what it’s worth, I hate the word d o o s h too. Like, really hate it. I think it is totally offensive.

      • If there’s going to be a major network show using D—, I think they’d have to make it a sitcom with two guys both named Richard who are friends/roommates. Then, they could say that “D-cks” is in reference to the characters’ names!

    • River Song :

      Yes. And (although to be fair, I have not seen either) reading that the title character of the Apartment 23 show was modeled after “Breakfast at Tiffany’s” Holly Golightly was disappointing. That’s not how I think of that character.

    • I’m not sure it bothers me, but I think its artistically lazy. They’re trying to be “provocative” but instead they’re just being boring. But I watched the premiere of Apt. 23 last night and that character is actually kind of interesting and not straightforwardly “evil.” And really more of a grifter than a b*tch.

      Anyway — I guess it bothers me on several levels is what I’m saying!

      • I agree. It’s kind of *yawn* – is that the best we can do? Kristin Chenowith (sp) was on tv the other night and she called her show Good Christian Belles, which I actually think is better than the other word.

    • The whole B in 23 show seems way overly risque for primetime. The trailer where she’s having s*x on the cake and then says she has frosting in her crack? Really??

      • Maybe I could sue them for trademark infringement? It’s pretty random that my handle is b23, and the show is about the B in 23. Weird.

    • Speaking of insults: My 17-year-old son has now started calling any jerky person a “doosh,” with that spelling. He caught me checking corporette and I told him a little about it, mentioning among other things our friend Ellen. He thought doosh was absolutely hilarious; we had a long drive to tour colleges last week and every a-hole driver who cut us off or tried to weave through traffic at high-speed was instantly labeled a doosh. If this becomes a thing among teenagers, would that be super-advanced trolling?

      • Hilarious and awesome.

      • probably not a new thing. My friends and I said that all the time in high school and spelled it the same way (5ish years ago). I honestly think it was because we heard the word [email protected] and just didn’t know how to spell it or really what it meant.

      • The way its spelled according to the Dictionary of Ellen might be new.

      • Hopefully it does not become I thing. Like b23 above, I hate that term and find it an offensive insult.

        • I’ve never really been bothered by it, but I’ll give it some thought. I tend to think this is a term that has moved away from its original meaning; I suspect my son has no idea what a d-bag really is — I’ve never seen one! — and when was the last time you saw a “Summer’s Eve” commercial on television.

      • Based on the name, I interpret the insult to mean, “a person or thing that is unnecessary, or even harmful, to women.” So, if it’s used to refer to the latest celebrity involved in DV toward a woman, then it’s appropriate.

        • I hear men called d— and p—- ALL THE TIME. And I also dont find any of the above words offensive. And this will draw criticism, but i love the word c–t.

          • Are you English? I have English friends who call each other this in their banter and tell me that it’s kind of like calling someone a “silly twit” instead of the very loaded, misogynistic way it’s often used here in the U.S.

    • 100% It’s almost worse to me that they don’t spell out the word. It’s like “wait, you KNOW this is offensive, clearly, since you’re “hiding” the actual word but you’re using it anyway…”

      • Actually, they originally did spell out the word for both tv shows, but then drew so much criticism that they changed it. GCB went through several name changes, including Good Christian B*tches, Good Christian Belles, and finally GCB.

        Why yes, I do spend way too much time reading tv news sites, why do you ask?

    • Jenna Rink :

      I don’t have a problem with the word b*tch, and I actually thought that “Don’t Trust the B” did a pretty good job developing the character for a pilot. What I did have a problem with last night was the main character getting a 12 year old drunk. Not funny at all.

      • Me too! I did not intend to watch the show, honestly the title did not draw me in, but nothing else was on so I had it on in the background while I did some work on the computer, and ended up thinking it was pretty funny. Except for the drunk 12 y/o. Not acceptable!

        • Agree on the offensive titles of those ABC shoes. And is anyone else here thoroughly annoyed by New Girl? Zooey Deschanel just kills. Since when did a 30 year old become a girl?! That show makes women look so infantile. It makes me insane!

          • Totes McGotes :

            I would say her character is very much a girl; hence why that show got on my nerves and I stopped watching it.

            It’s kind of funny, if that character weren’t in the show I would love it.

          • Me too, and it’s sad because I so hoped to love it! I watched the first couple episodes and dropped it like a bad habit. But it’s not just her, ALL of the women in the show seem like one-dimensional infants. While they may not be a whole lot better, at least the men appear to have at least two dimensions. The commercials I’ve seen since have not change my opinion despite my sister’s avid and vocal love for the show. I suspect from the lack of commercials I’ve seen that it may not be long for this world.

  2. LOVE IT. Love the colour, love the neck, love the silhouette, love the belt.

    What are people’s thoughts on big belts at the office, when worn over dresses? Like these ones:

    I like the way they can be slimming, but I’m a bit worried they might be too “trendy”!

    • I totally disagree with that poster that big belts are unflattering. I like them a lot and find that some dresses just don’t work well with thin belts. I would say that I probably wear half my dresses with skinny belts and the other half with big belts. It really depends on the style of the dress and whether a skinny belt can work.

      I do love this dress.

      • Yes, I meant to say that – I think they’re usually flattering as the emphasise the waist, rather than letting the clothes hang down and have your body look like a big poof ball!

        However, I think the blogger’s sentence “but now I am a freshmen in college and I know the truth about the theory” says it all really. ;)

        • LOL! Related tangent.

          I always laugh when I see someone write something like, “Victoria Beckham is a really fashionable women.”

          VB has accomplished a lot in her life, but I doubt that she contains multitudes, in the Walk Whitmanesque way.

    • Don’t think they’re too trendy (unless the belt itself is wildly trendy), don’t think big belts automatically make you look like a killer whale. Do think everything should be proportionate and work with the particular pieces of clothing you’re wearing–e.g. I have dresses and skirt/shirt combos that look better with wide belts, and ones that look better with skinny belts.

    • Diana Barry :

      I hate belts in general. ;)

    • I guess the belt itself could be trendy, but wide belts themselves? Not trendy.

      Maybe I’m biased, though, because I like them & wear them to the office.

      How flattering they are depends on your body.

    • This would literally be a miniskirt on me. I could wear this on a date, or clubbin (haha–like I go clubbing at my age anymore), but to work…I’d be showing way, way too much leg.

  3. Please tell me the link isn’t working for everyone and I didn’t get blocked from shopping sites!

    From the limited pic, this looks way too short for work.

    Story time – last night our office maintenance person was taking apart my assistance cube to re-position it. A baby mouse ran out!! I magically turned into one of those ridiculous girls in a romantic comedy. I screamed and ran away from the thing. I can kill spiders, am enthralled by snakes, but apparently petrified by rodents. I knew I was scared of rats but come on, it was a baby mouse! And where there is one . . . ew.

    PS: The kind maintenance person caught it in a cup and put it out in the grass far from the building.

    • The link didn’t work for me, either, and I can DEFINITELY shop from my work computer. :)

    • And probably chuckled at your reaction. :)

    • Diana Barry :

      The link didn’t work for me either.

      Yikes on the mouse! I don’t mind bugs either, but rodents are…bad. Especially in an office building! :-0

      • Diana Barry :

        Oh! I did find it. Site says it’s 36″ long. Too short for me!

    • The second link didn’t work for me, and I’m “working” from home and my SO isn’t websavy enough to block me from shopping sites (KIDDING), so I think it’s the link.

      Also — baby mouse in a field, or the subway tracks, one thing, mouse in your office — eek.

      • Once when I was working in London we went into a boardroom for a client meeting and found a dead mouse on the floor. This was first thing in the morning. Question 1: how long had that mouse been there and where were its friends? Question 2: how long had it been since that boardroom was cleaned? And this was in a mothership Magic Circle firm that could certainly afford to deal with mice.

    • oh whew, yeah I was wondering the same thing…got a rather ominous sounding error.

    • I hate mice. Ever since there was one in an oven glove when I put my hand in it to grab something out of the oven. (Okay, I hated them before that, but I’m traumatized from that one.) One of the many reasons I do NOT miss our rental.

      I have mouse related PTSD. I’d totally shriek if one appeared unexpectedly in the office.

      • Diana Barry :

        Ugh, that is awful. I think I would be traumatized and have to use towels instead of oven mitts!

        BTW, tx for the dermatologist rec the other day. :)

      • One once jumped heroically out of my FIL’s outdoor grill … after he’d lit it. Squeals all around. The mouse survived.

      • That is a nightmare!! I hate rats (mice, whatever) and your ovenmitt scenario would totally traumatize me too!

    • The dress looks too short to wear, even for more casual Fridays here. Oh well.

      I think mice / rats can be scary, because they’re just so darn fast. Ants and spiders are fast, too, but because they’re so tiny, they still take a bit of time to say, cross the entire floor or ceiling. But a little mouse can easily shoot across the floor really quickly, and that sudden popping out/running of *something* is scary. Horror movies use this tactic on the audience all the time!

      • What is funniest is *how loud* I screamed. My poor coworker in the next office said he was on the phone with a client who asked if everything was okay. *face palm.* Everyone is laughing about it so it isn’t that big of a deal but I’m just amazed at how uncontrollable my reaction was.

        • MissJackson :

          I’m like this, too, which I find extra baffling.

          I have science nerd parents and I actually had a mouse for a *pet* as a child (my mom was a science teacher, and the pet came from one of her students science fair experiences involving a maze and mice). And I totally loved that little mouse! I held it her with bare hands, etc.

          Fast forward to when we had mice in my apartment when I was in law school I suddenly morphed into the girl who stood on the couch and shreiked. WTH?

          • *cue 1950s moralizing video narrator voice*
            There are the mice you know and trust, and mice who are strangers.

            Never get into an apartment if there are strange mice there!

          • Totes McGotes :

            LOL Susan that’s exactly what I was thinking!

          • I was chased out of a booth at lunch once by a spider. I nearly crushed my DH trying to get away from it. My reaction was completely uncontrollable too.

    • If it makes you feel any better….. When I was still in the lab, I worked with mice. I picked them up and put them in new cages, I put tags on their ears (like doing ear-piercing on mice), gave them injections of things, and, eventually, sacrificed them. Yet if I saw a mouse running around my office or in my house, I would be up on a desk or table so fast and shrieking to wake the dead.

      Those things just don’t belong in houses/offices/stores. Ick.

      • MD/DC observer :

        One more “if it makes you feel any better” story: When we had mice in our previous apartment kitchen I learned to stop in mid-scream but could not train myself *not* to scream in the first place. Ridiculous! It must be an instinctive, hard-wired reaction as per that horror movie tactic.

    • I agree that the posted dress looks too short, but the color is fantastic. I tried on the following dress a few weeks ago and it was incredibly flattering to my stick straight figure. I am 5’6″ tall, with a 32″ inseam and this dress hit me right at the knee.

  4. Like the color, but wow, that seems short. I’m 5’6″ and I don’t think I’d be able to sit in that.

  5. Much too short for work!

    • I second that. Far too short for the office.

    • Seriously, this seems short for a normal size lady, and I’m 5’11”. Tha’t s a no-go for the office.

      • Co-sign. 5’11” as well (and leggy, so this would be ridic for work). Dresses need to be at least 42-43 inches, and 46 is better, to be work-appropriate for me!

  6. It’s a gorgeous color, but it does seem a little short for work.

    Threadjack: NYC ladies, I need a dermatologist. Does anyone have any recommendations? I live in Queens but work in Midtown East, so Manhattan recs are fine, though I’d prefer Midtown and up.

    • I go to the Jane Taylor group at 57th and 7th Ave. My dr. is Dr. Schneider, but I think everyone there is good. I love my doctor. She’s very professional and smart and personable.

    • No longer in NYC but when I was there I really liked Daniel Foitl at Sutton Place Dermatology.

    • Love Dr. Bruce Heller – he’s right around Columbus circle. Professional, efficient, and can fit you in for quick appointments. Very proactive about skin cancer and cosmetic issues.

  7. I love this dress. Does anyone know how the sizing in this brand usually runs?

  8. i checked out the tumblr site stfucorporette. do you guys think that’s funny? i found it to be rather rude and unfunny

    • I think she used to be funnier, but recently she just seems to have gotten angrier and meaner. I also think a lot of what she says could just be said on here without the need for a separate site, but whatever floats her boat.

      • Anon1, I think you’ve almost guaranteed that he/she is going to make fun of you. That’s what snarky people do-look for others who voice an unfavorable opinion, then pounce. Kinda like lions. Best to just let them sleep in peace.

        • Or rattle their cages, because then you are the one in control making them flip out.

      • stfucorp... :

        I have to say, I think the way she/he pictured Ellen was funny. I mean who doesn’t read Ellen’s posts and picture her in a “certain” way?

    • Obviously everyone can do whatever they want on the internet, so I don’t have a strong opinion, nor would I expect anyone to care if I did. That said, I never found it particularly funny, and it strikes me as mean-spirited. Justifiably mocking/calling people out works well when it’s funny, but again, I don’t tend to find this tumblr funny.

      • Stuffed in a Locker :

        Monday, agreed. To me, it sort of strikes as a sad person — like, someone who used to get made fun of or teased in high school that can now use the Internets to “get back” at [who? I dunno.]. It feels icky to read.

      • By the way, I know that commenting on it may land me on the tumblr–and I am so unfazed by that, I’m even using my regular handle. Look ma, I’m on stfucorporette! :)

      • Agree agree. I think there are some STFU-type sites that are done well (First World Problems would be my favorite) but the STFU Corp person just isn’t really that funny. At the same time, she (or he) has the right to voice her opinions as much as I do. And it’s the internet, so like–on the scale of things I could get worked up, it doesn’t even register.

    • Gooseberry :

      I’d never heard of this before and just checked it out. I kind of don’t get it — what am I missing?

      I looked at the “about” section and the writer notes that “the target” of her sarcasm is the “supposedly professional women” who comment on Corporette. Do I understand correctly that this writer reads (scours?) Corporette and picks out comments as fodder for her own site (for primarily caustic and/or picayune purposes, but that’s here nor there)? I’m new to the Internet, but is that right? Oh, yes, I can see how that is worlds more professional.

    • Well, rude is sort of the point with sites like that. But it’s not particularly funny. Honestly, we get fairly ridiculous here from time to time (I say this with love!), but she doesn’t seem to have great instincts for humor, even of the sarcastic variety.

      • Gooseberry :

        Yeah, I guess that’s what I was missing. It’s not clear from a first read that her intention is to be funny.

    • As much as I love Corporette, I can certainly say that there’s a lot that could be made fun of here. (Ellen sometimes gets it. Note only sometimes.) So, in theory, I think that a site mocking it would be fun and funny. I think that this one does a really poor job, though.

      • This as well. I read Corporette sometimes, and I see a comedic goldmine (luv y’all though for real, please don’t excommunicate me). The STFU person does not even get close to maximizing its potential.

        • MissJackson :

          That’s my thought, too. We’re a funny bunch, and sometimes not very intentially (and I wholeheartidly include myself in that). STFUCorporette misses the mark.

          (I do think the British Racing Green nail polish one is funny, though — in large part because I also wore BRG for St. Patricks Day and totally missed the irony myself until I saw it there.)

      • Along this line, who is Ellen? I’ve been reading for months, but I must miss days when she comments. The ladies on here reference her quite a bit though.

        • she commented at the top of this post- she has bad spelling, a bad managing partner, and likes to use CAPS

          • *manageing

          • And an alcoholic no-good ex-boyfriend named Alan who refused to marry her. Also a sister (Rosa?), who is a size 2. I believe this friend “Emma” is new (see today’s post) is new, though.

            I spend too much time here.

          • Bah – third sentence should read, “I believe this friend ‘Emma’ (see today’s post) is new, though.”

          • And a clothing allowance from her employer, which somehow involves the “manageing partner” having to approve her specific clothing choices.

        • Ellen is the Corporette community’s pet troll. :)

          Ellen’s a commenter who usually uses whatever the topic/item du jour is as a segue to discuss how she can’t find a good man who admires her for anything other than her good lucks and how her managing partner (who has bad breathe) is trying to get her in the sack.
          All with an excessive use of capitalizations and poor spelling.

          • And Ellen, using the full name Ellen Barshevsky, was a commenter with these same characterists who finally was kicked off the ABA Journal’s online comment section. There is some debate about whether this is the same Ellen or a copycat/wanna-be.

        • Francie N. :

          You can go to ELLENWatch dot com to catch up on her history.

          I love that there is someone as curious or maybe more so that started a blog to figure out the enigma of Ellen. If I ever write a paper on a behavioral topic, maybe it will be why someone would go to the lengths they do to comment as Ellen.

          • I have occasionally wondered about that.

          • Some regular corporette posters will post as Ellen. I can sometimes tell when it’s “really” Ellen and when it’s a regular poster.

            Which means I spend too much time here as well.

          • Anonymous :

            Slight correction: ELLENWatch dot blogspot dot com

          • Alanna of Trebond :

            Wow I had no idea that there was an Ellen Watch dot Com. That makes my day.

          • She used to have a blawg:


        • Wow, thanks for filling me in (that’s what she said).

          • *snort* I don’t know why, but I still laugh at that every. time. Thanks!

          • PharmaGirl :


          • haha! I’ve been reading this blog and occasionally posting for YEARS – probably since close to its inception – and I had no idea there were spin off sites until today. live and learn.

        • call me overly curious here, but I looked up one ellen barshevsky on the attorney registration for ny courts and… there’s no one by the at name. And in case ellen’s first name is not really ellen, a peek inside the redbook reveals that there is no lawyer registered with the last name barshevsky.

          • Francie N. :

            The plot thickens!

            She posted on here www dot brooklyndaily dot com/stories/2012/12/kc_shulhop_2012_03_23_bk.html that she is from Bay Ridge.

      • She makes me miss Shayna.

        I wonder if Ellen is Shayna.

        • Gasp.

        • Francie N. :

          My though is that perhaps Shayna was behind STFU Corporette…

        • OMG. That would be the most super-advanced EPIC trolling ever if it was!

        • I’ve long theorized that Ellen is the alter-ego of her so-called boyfriend, Alan.
          Alan (Ellen) posts here for fun and for the thrill of having ladies who actually reply to him.

        • I remember Shayna used to get sh*t for commenting too much… but, since she’s been gone, WOW, have others stepped up to fill the “comment multiple times on every single post with or without something valuable to contribute” void.

  9. Briefcase Hunt :

    As mentioned in the suit thread yesterday, I’m looking for a briefcase… [I got the Tumi T-Pass Lago Medium Laptop brief, link to follow. I have been looking for a briefcase for a long time, and this one fit the bill, but it was nearly $600, which is crazy. I’m hoping that you ladies will either talk some sense into me and get me to return it by offering a good, less expensive alternative, or tell me it’s ok to keep it.]

    In searching previous work bag discussions, I found a post Kat did on Lo & Sons. Does anyone own one? I really like the Brookline ($200), but I’m not sure it’s appropriate for depos and court – too casual? I’m also looking at Jack Georges, which are leather and would be about $300. What do you all think?

    Totes McGotes, you are totally right that this is taking up a ton of time. Sigh.

    • Briefcase Hunt :




    • Okay Briefcase, may I just say — depending on how much time you’ve actually spent on this (and how much you make), you’ve probably spent more time looking for a cheaper briefcase then you’d actually save buying a cheaper one.

      If you LIKE your Tumi one, I vote for keeping it!

    • Totes McGotes :

      Thanks for the shout-out, love :)

    • I’ve posted before that I’ve had the Brookline for about 6 months of daily use with just basic wallet, shoes, lunch, makeup bag type weight – no laptop or heavy files, and the hardware on the strap has broken twice. I think it looks nice and professional and has great pockets for organization, but I’m not sure the quailty quite there.

    • I think you should just keep it. I’m only a small law litigator, and have spent the past FOUR YEARS trying to find a briefcase/bag that I like that costs around $300 or less, that I could carry to the office daily and to court on light court days (I use a rolling lit bag if I need to bring a lot of stuff). Finally, my hand-me-down Nine West “temporary” bag started ripping. I finally just bit the bullet and bought the Tory Burch Robinson double zip tote. It retails for $575…. bottom line, if you’re as particular as me (which I am thinking you might be)… this search could take YEARS and in the end, you will likely be spending that same amount anyway. Learn from my years of ugly bag-toting. Keep the bag! =D

    • Briefcase Hunt :

      Thanks DC Jenny for the warning and My Vote for your vote. Plus, TCFKAG says it’s ok, and she has shopping kung fu, so it must be so. I’m at a big firm, so I work a lot and am very well compensated. I will keep the ridiculously expensive Tumi bag and wear the heck out of it. $600 spread across 5 days a week of daily use until I make partner/of counsel/get forced out, the next big milestone meriting a new bag… minimum 250 days of work a year (assuming weekends off, ha!) x 5 years of work = 1250 days –> 48 cents per wear. That seems reasonable. It’s just a lot of money, but I’m really not keen on any of the alternatives. I should have just listed to Totes to begin with. I mean, with a name like that, she’s obviously the authority on bags ;).

      Thanks for putting up with me, ladies.

  10. Only okay when Ryan Gosling does it... :

    I am halfway through a clerkship with a district court judge, and I am afraid I’m going to scream, so I’m hoping the hive can give me some good advice to handle this professionally. I’m 29, married, and feel rather confident that I do not look as though I am of minor age.

    My judge calls me “girl”. He comes in every morning and says “Hey girl, how’s today [‘s docket] look?”. My office is connected to his inner chambers and when he wants to review something, discus an idea, or ask a question, he yells, “Girl! Can you come here a minute?” or “Hey girl, I want to talk about the X case motion.” He calls me “girl” in front of other people – attorneys, other judges, at meetings, etc.

    Also, it’s not just me. He calls every female who is in a professionally inferior position within the courthouse “girl.” Regardless of age, etc. The one female who oversees judge scheduling across multiple courtrooms, who is his senior in both years and position, he calls “lady.” And it’s not just that this one anomaly – he regularly discusses behind closed doors how women shouldn’t be certain types of attorneys or how women need to become SAHM/go in-house if they want to have kids. Also, my judge is in his late 50’s – he is going to be around for decades.

    Obviously, given his position (and my position both here and in my long-term professional goals) there is a fine line to walk. But it is getting to the point where I’m afraid that one morning I am going to be tired/angry about something else, and just scream when he says “Hey Girl”. This morning I was 99% of the way there.


    • “Hey old man.”

    • SF Bay Associate :

      Jaw drop. Currently too stunned to make any sort of useful comment… will attempt when recovered. *Handsqueeze* in the meantime.

    • I’d bite my tongue and wait out the rest of the clerkship. At least in my small town, it would be career suicide to approach this issue head on. Most people would already know of the judge’s shameful and dated way of dealing with women, and would think less of him for his behavior, but I think you only hurt yourself if you make a federal case of this (no pun intended).

      • it’s so sad that this is how the world works :(

      • I think this too but seriously? This guy is only in his 50s? Not his 90s? Heck, even the people I know in their 90s aren’t THIS clueless!

        I think you just have to take it, (and maybe start a tumblr (STFU old man?)) :-P because making a deal out of it is only going to make him come down on you and other people think of you as “a problem” even though you’re right.

    • Diana Barry :

      OMFG. *headdesk*

      How do you think he would react if you didn’t get up when he said “girl, come here”, or when he said “hey girl” in the morning, you said, “Please call me ‘Emily’.” and repeat that every day or every time he says “girl”?

      Given that this is a global problem, is there a chief judge in the courthouse who you could talk to?

      • MaggieLizer :

        Agree that it’s totally appropriate to ask him to call you by your name. I might couch it as “It’s difficult for me to know who you’re talking to when you say ‘girl’; could you please address me by my name?” Sorry you’re dealing with this doosh. Feel free to rant here!

      • He is the head judge. I’m afraid to be too specific for fear of being identified.

        I really wish I had done something like this at the beginning – at the beginning I was so incredibly floored that (1) this was happening and (2) that a person could be in a position like this and yet express such attitudes and opinions – that some time went by where I was basically in shock, before I transitioned to being offended. Which has now transitioned to borderline rage.

        • Diana Barry :

          Ugh. I would then do as TCFKAG suggests and send an anon letter to the circuit judges, or to the local bar association’s newspaper, or even to the local newspaper. But be v careful in the writing style so he can’t trace it back to you!!!

          Alternatively, if there is another judge in the courthouse who would be sympathetic, I would talk to him/her and ask what can be done.

        • Are his initials JR? (JK.)

    • Wow. Your judge sounds like a pig. I would also have a very hard time not losing my isht with the guy. That being said, I can’t offer alot of advice. At his age and given the superior-subordinate relationship you have, I doubt you can do much of anything to sway him. (Side Note: 50’s isn’t that old. I’m actually kind of surprised to hear about an attitude from someone who probably came of age in the 1980s) If you try to say anything to him about how it bothers you and that you find it insulting, he’ll probably chalk up to you being too emotional and delicate – and clearly that’s just another reason why women shouldn’t be lawyers. Bull -&%$^ing- isht, I say. But I think all you can do is grin, bear it, and do the best work you can. And count the days until it’s over.

      • I’m not surprised. I’ve worked with lots of 30-40yr old guys who harbour the same attitudes. Because they’ve been socialized differently, they’re smarter about not being so overt about it. Also, they’re not that senior yet, so they’re still wearing camouflage.

        I swear, if I had a $50 for every one of these guys talk about how they went out of their way to “marry women with disposable jobs (e.g. teaching, any of the healing-caring professions but not M.D.s, non-profit workers), make them quit as soon as they have their first kid, so you can control the purse-strings, because he who controls the purse-strings controls the relationship”….I’d retire wealthy right now.

        • Hear, hear. This is so common.

        • My personal favorite are the 40-45 year old male partners with stay at home wives and 2 small kids who get pissy about how I have so much free time and don’t have to support a family and should be working harder while forgetting that their wife does all the shopping/cooking/picking up drycleaning/taking in the car for repairs/etc. that I need free time to accomplish so my personal life doesn’t blow to hell!

          • Wow, those partners are so entitled. They don’t know how good they have it.

            I think what is scary, though, is that the younger set the early 30something guys who I referenced earlier *know* exactly how they are taking advantage of women, and they’re not oblivious, unlike those older partners. The younger set is more ruthless and sneakier about how to perpetuate the power dynamic. The sad thing is seeing the young women who fall for it. Takes two to tango.

          • D Train South :


          • +100 for Susan. SO many of the guys in my law school were like this. It really made me feel gross about being a woman (and apparently enough “one of the guys” that they would admit this stuff to me!)

          • yes, yes, yes, yes. how nice it must be to come home and not have to cook, clean, shop, run errands, do laundry, go to the post office, go to the bank, etc etc etc.

          • CA Atty,

            I think they were treating you as “one of the guys” because even though they probably thought you were hot (and wanted to sleep with you), they knew they’d never have a shot at you (and, in all honesty, I don’t think they’d want to be with a woman savvy enough to see through their domineering BS. So, given that they weren’t seeking you as a marriage prospect, they felt free to speak openly.

            Back in my i-banker days, most of my (male) colleagues said quite openly that they’d never marry a woman who had a “serious” career of her own.

            And I asked them to define what was “serious,” and of course, they only named the professions that made a lot of money. I told them, “you do realize that social workers are in a serious career in that it’s got serious family and community impact, where lives are often at stake, plus it’s difficult as heck.” But that fell on deaf, money-obsessed ears.

            I knew I had to get out once I looked at the people around me in that industry. It’s one thing to be a sore loser, but “sore winners,” who aren’t satisfied merely by their own success but have to also crap on everything others do are really unpleasant company.

          • Reminds me of a conversation in my first law firm (early 90s). With a couple of other people (women) in the office, I arranged for a dry cleaning service to come in for pick-up and delivery twice a week. The head of the litigation department, whose wife was a SAHM, was baffled about why anyone would need to have their dry cleaning brought to the office. I said, “well, you probably don’t think about this because your wife takes your shirts to the cleaners, right?” His answer: “No, she washes and irons them.” Point made.

          • Thanks, CA Atty. Much appreciated. :-)

        • This is such a sad state of the world, I am afraid I may never find any suitable partner who will genuinely support me in my “non-disposable” career path in finance.

          I guess Indian/South Asian men are even worse in this regard. They are raised as pampered “mamma’s boys” who would find vacuum cleaning/changing diapers or even eating reheated food more than once a week beneath them.
          Sigh, I need go shoe shopping to cheer up :)

          • No, no, don’t despair! Part of it is working in certain industries…. certain types of guys gravitate to these industries. I believe there was a whole thread earlier in what one should call them (D—, P—, DOOSH, doosh…) ;-)

            But even in these industries, there are some really good guys. There’s also being willing to date someone who’s not in the whole white-collar high-pay corporate rat-race.

            Just as I’d love to see some of these guys get an attitude readjustment and stop seeing women are their personal servants and valets, I’d like to see some women* also get an attitude readjustment and stop expecting that their future husband always make more money and have a higher title.

            *Not saying this is you, but this attitude is prevalent and should be examined closely and challenged in some cases. If you’re already Ms. VP of X, the odds that you’ll find Mr. CEO of Y, making 3X what you make and being willing to take 50-75% of the childcare duties and be supportive of your career are slim, statistically.

          • I am married to a desi guy (I am white). He was born and raised in US but had very traditional indian SAHM and doctor dad. I do think it takes a bit more prompting to get him to do things than it might take your average non-desi american guy, but he will do most things. Doesn’t complain about leftovers. Cooks sometimes (though he isn’t very good at it so I prefer to do it myself), will vacuum if it gets desperate. We don’t have kids yet but I think he’ll be a pretty involved dad, based on how he is with our nieces and nephews. The one intractable issue has been laundry. I don’t think he knows for sure how to operate a laundry machine. For now, I have assigned him towel washing duty. We’ll see how it goes.

            Anyway- it’s not hopeless! But you’re probably better off with american-born and raised south asians. They at least understand the looser cultural norms for gender roles. I also think there are some positives in exchange for the negatives here- most south asian guys are committed to marriage and family (don’t have to convince them), have no problem working their *ss off to make money, if necessary, and they do generally respect women in their own retro way. Honestly, I think the bigger problem is often the mothers in law…

          • I feel like Susan’s cheerleader this morning but +1000 on this post!

            I always kind of assumed I would find my spouse in law school, that’s what my parents did and all of their friends and even some of my friends. I didn’t, and am now super-happily coupled with a non-attorney, non high-powered type A aggressive overachiever, etc…I found that there are more kinds of ambition than I at 24 gave credence to. There are also more kinds of jobs, more kinds of people, more kinds of relationships, more kinds of love.

            I’m 100% in the camp of “this is a partnership” relationship. And also “we are a unit, not two units spinning in orbits that happen to intersect more than other orbits.” With that said, my bf does his own laundry, cooks as much as I do, is even more finicky about having things clean, AND opens doors and holds chairs for me.

            The only thing that is kind of funny and retro and not 100% to my taste is that he likes to get my car door for me. Which means I have to sit there while he rummages around and switches from sun glasses to regular glasses, makes sure he has everything, gets out of the car, walks around to my side, etc…but far be it for me to complain about something NICE that he does! :-)

          • Holler @ the desi men comment. I’m trying to work on my brothers. And we’ll see what happens in my future. Not gonna lie, not looking forward to it. AT ALL.

          • There is a wide world of people and attitudes other there. Don’t despair. Entrepreneurs might like women who make bank in conventional careers, since it provides some stability to balance out the risks of starting your own business. They also might be more open-minded if they are the type who chose to start a business to get out of the rat race.

          • Don’t despair! Just date different types of guys.

            I am currently in law school, heading into litigation at a firm. Which means that I have the lifestyle of a law student near finals and that I will have the lifestyle of a firm litigator soon enough. I think that it would be impossible to be in a relationship with someone with a similar lifestyle.

            My boyfriend is a business owner, which has been great for our relationship. His schedule is more flexible than mine. Plus, his field is blue collar, so he lacks the obnoxious personality traits that many type A men have. I would never want to date most male law students!

          • Thanks Susan, good advice.
            I get what you are saying about “certain industries”, I do work in one of these places with probably less than 10 females in non-assistant roles.
            I am absolutely fine with a guy who may not be in the “white-collar high-pay corporate rat-race”. Hopefully there is someone out there :)

          • Original poster again, thanks so much ladies for all the wonderful advice. I am feeling much better now.

            @annoi – i agree, a meddling mother in law is my bigger fear than the desi guy himself :)

            @ Ru – same here with my brother, i had him take out the trash and put dishes inside the dishwasher while he was visiting me for a week for spring break and sleeping till noon. My bro is the pampered one, and he went complaining right to my mom !

          • AnnonFoo– about your little brother whining about being asked to do the most basic chores that any grownups should do, especially if they’re houseguests… this reminds me of a PSA I saw years ago on TV.

            You know, I’m dating myself here, but (I think I already did that in the other thread about that kids’ TV show “DoubleDare”)…when I was in junior high and high school, living in my terrible podunk town, I used to watch all these random TV stations on Saturday mornings to try to see something that was 1)not the despair already represented in my town and not about 2)losers glorifying the high school quarterback and his bullyboys… and what did I find but this:

            A program (leased-time?) called Cinema Cinema, hosted by Tinku Jain. She’d play the song & dance clips from classic 70s and 80s Bollywood films and my god, those songs were so catchy, I got addicted. Never mind that I am not desi and don’t understand any of the languages of the Subcontinent.

            But during the commercial breaks, sometimes there’d be public service announcements, and there was one about “breaking the cycle of sexism.” It showed a desi housewife, with some commentary about how she might have been told that she was lesser than man, but she doesn’t have to perpetuate it. They show the family clearing up after dinner, and how the housewife immediately barks at her daughter to come help do the dishes and clean up, but lets the son and husband go off and watch TV. The PSA then did the “stop time” thing, and “rewind”, and then showed her asking both children to help, with the gentle reminder that she does have power to make change.

            Maybe your little bro’ missed seeing that PSA! ;-)

          • Hey, now, it’s not really that bad. I’m a South Asian woman who has worked continuously since we’ve been married and now with children. I know lots of South Asian wives who work. Most of the women in this community who I know who are happy homemakers really are happy homemakers. In fact, I’d call them the pampered ones. My husband is by no means perfect, he’s able to do most household stuff although he often tries to weasel out of it. But I don’t think that’s upbringing, just a combination of tiredness and individual priorities. As for meeting men, I was highly entertained by Ru’s account, but I do think the Auntie network has its place and can be a useful tool for meeting people. The key is to stick with the cool Aunties. I could go on but I don’t know if anyone is going to read this so late. Just please don’t give up hope for the things you want out of life.

        • I must say though I’m equally floored by women that – far from “falling for it” – look for it. As a senior associate in a top 20 firm I’ve always found the hardest part of firm retreats is interacting with my fellow attorney’s wives. (not all of course – many are married to independent interesting professionals…but) these are women who specifically looked for someone to provide a big house with all the trimmings, and then not be around much so they can have 100% control over kids, vacations, household, etc. and not have to work. I’m not saying it’s wrong – it seems to work for all involved – the guys have a pretty supportive wife that takes care of all the not-work stuff, the wives get all the trimmings, don’t have to work and don’t have to negotiate house stuff much… they have separate spheres of influence it seems and it makes them happy. I don’t really ever hear those women complaining about the hours the guys I work with have or that they “had” to quit a job.

          It’s just SO foreign to anything I was raised with, have or want in a marriage (and I got married 13 days ago I know!) that sometimes the conversations get awkward (particularly as often I see their husbands more than they do…)

    • Honestly, since he treats everyone in the courthouse this way, you MIGHT be able to get away with sending an anonymous note to the head judge of the court or even the circuit essentially reporting that there is a district judge who is committing s*xual harassment.

      But unfortunately, there’s not a whole lot they can do even once its reported. So you can come on here and vent to us and vent to your friends over c*cktails and count down the days until you don’t work for the braggart anymore!

      • Anne Shirley :

        “hey girl”

        “my name is Emily”

        “come here girl”

        “it’s Emily, your honor”

        “have a good weekend girl?”

        “please call me Emily”

        Everytime. People respect you less and less the more of their crap you take. From his view, if you won’t even speak up when someones callingvyou girl, you probably won’t be a very good lawyer. Feeds back into his small mind.

        • Totes McGotes :

          I liked BT’s response, but I think this is the best way to go ;)

          • MD/DC observer :

            Suggested variation: “everybody calls me Emily:” Depersonalizes the correction, defangs the sexist venom (not that it deserves to be defanged, but being over-the-top furious at work is not a good use of your energy) and makes it seem totally matter-of-fact. Deliver the line with calm and competence, the same way you’d correct someone who mangled your name as Ms. Lakewood, Ms. Woodlake, and Ms. Riverwood. Bonus points when other colleagues see you taking effective action.

        • The potential problem with this is that many sexists get a real thrill from any indication that their behaviour bothers you. This might really make his day, and cause him to go out of his way to elicit the “my name is Emily” response as often as possible.

          • OP here - :

            I’ve read the responses, and knowing my judge – he would love to realize that he was getting under my skin, and what makes taking the ‘high road’ so difficult. Thanks for saying that better than I could.

        • I agree. I’m not in law, and I am shocked (shocked!) at the crap you ladies put up with. I get that you’re in a tough career with intense bosses, etc. But every time you roll over and take it, you make it that much harder for future generations of women. And every time you stand up for yourself, you contribute to the ongoing cause of not letting men treat women like sh1t. I realize you have your career to consider, but also: you have your career to consider!

    • Only Ryan Gosling is allowed to say “hey girl” to me.

    • OMG. I would call him a pig but that’s an insult to pigs. This kind of langauge and comments are astounding from a federal judge, particularly one who is only 50-something. Of course, age is no excuse — I clerked in the late ’80s; my judge was an old-time Southerner, pushing 70 and a Republican nominee. He NEVER would have said or done anything like this. (He did tell me once that every year for his clerks he hired “one boy and one girl.” But we were young enough to be his grandkids, and he never called me “girl.”)

      If he’s chief judge in your district or division, there’s not much you can do about him right now. I agree about saying, multiple times, “please call me Trudy.” MaggieLizer’s suggestion to do so by saying that his use of “girl” is confusing is a tactful way of doing this — even though he doesn’t deserve tact, he is in power at the moment.

      I hope your clerkship is for only one year and you can be out of there soon. Depending on where you go from here — especially if you practice in some other city, out of his reach — once you’re gone you might consider making a complaint to the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts or the applicable circuit court administrator, which I think has some authority over the district judges.

      This is horrible that you have deal with this — I hope it helps that all of us at least share the rage.

    • Commiseration? :

      No advice, but the partner I work for (late 50s, male) used to call all the associates (even the senior one) “kids.” Even in front of opposing counsel and clients. (Example: “I will get the kids on it.” or “Kids! Do this.” ) I think I kept visibly bristling when he did this, even though I didn’t specifically say anything about it. Somehow, it has stopped.

      • I have to admit that when talking to an older colleague about articling students, I will sometimes default to referring to students as “the kids”. And I’m not even 40 yet. I would never, ever call them “kids” in person, but honestly, they are starting to look so young to me these days! When partners refer to students or associates as “kids”, in my experience they really don’t mean anything offensive by it – it is generally meant in a law-firm-as-family, endearing kind of way. Not the same as “girl”, which is just offensive and gives the impression that the judge can’t be bothered to learn your name.

        • Commiseration? :

          Oh, I agree. “Girl” is about 1000x worse than “kids.”

          I guess I was annoyed because being a young-looking first/second year, I didn’t think it was helping my credibility with the clients.

          • Yes, I have totally been in your shoes and been the “kid” myself. But honestly, as a first/second year, your credibility is going to come from your work anyway, so don’t worry about it.

      • Aw, I love calling people kids. Since I’m the youngest in the office, it’s just tongue in cheek.

        Although yesterday I called one of the secretaries “dear” she called me and I said “yes dear.” In my head I was like WTFOMG but played it off like I was just absentminded and distracted when she called me. I don’t know where that came from!!

    • This is a personality thing but I would totally spit back a “hey dude”. Every single time. And I’ve done it before, to people way above me.

    • You should start an anonymous blog: “S*it my Horribly S*xist Judge Says.”

    • Network It! :

      I bet there is a whole group of former female clerks of your judge who had the same experience. And I bet among them are some women you should know! Don’t most judges keep a roster of their former clerks? Find it. Call them (either now or after the clerkship). Not just to ask about this, but also because if this bothered them, then you likely have a lot in common with them.

      Also, what state are you in? I live in Orange County, CA (the home of Nixon and the John Birch Society), and that wouldn’t play even here.

    • TurtleWexler :

      At my former job, one of the judges never bothered to learn anyone’s name. He usually called his own clerk “the boy” and would routinely call any woman he spoke to “sweetie.” Including, on occasion, his boss. For some reason, everyone seemed to accept it…I guess because he had been there forever and is retiring soon. Fortunately, I didn’t work for him and he never addressed me as anything (my name or “sweetie”) on the few occasions when we spoke because it could have been a problem otherwise. I have no good suggestions for how to deal with it, but lots of sympathy…

    • divaliscious11 :

      He sounds like a pig…but what did he call you in your interview?

  11. MaggieLizer :

    Purchased! Last Call has a promotion for 40% one regularly priced item, so the dress comes down to $59.40. I’m 5’2″ so I’m pretty sure the length will work on me, but if it doesn’t then $60 isn’t horrible for a dress that’s appropriate for summer work events and still fun for weekends.

  12. Threadjack! I’m seeing my sister’s new apartment this weekend and want to bring something fun and thoughtful for a housewarming gift. She’s renting it through the end of the year from a couple who’s traveling internationally, so it came furnished and she therefore doesn’t need very much house stuff.

    Thoughts? She’s very close to my 2-year-old daughter (her niece), so I thought I might get her one of those frames from Target where you can easily rotate kiddo artwork inside. But I still want to get her something fun and grown-up. This is her first non-studio apartment and she’s an on-the-go 26-year-old living in Chicago.

    • Does she have a bar set? Fun martini glasses and a bar mixing set would be a fun present. Or else maybe the start of a nice bar, like the fancy liquors none of us ever buy for ourselves (like a nice sour mix, or the orange one whose name I forget for making martinis). Something like that. (This by the way all assumes she drinks.)

      Another fun option is a copy of a Michelin guide (or maybe a more low-end guide to bar and restaurants) in Chicago.

      • I love this idea for myself but she works a ton so I’m not sure how much she entertains at home…although maybe she’d entertain more if she had a nice bar set? :)

        • Well, who can’t use those fun plastic martini glasses and bar sets they sell at Target or Home Goods (don’t go with glass — I know they’re classier but they’re a real pain to move). I mean, even for display purposes they’re kind of fun.

          But if she works a lot, maybe you could take time to do a kind of “yelp guide” to all the best take out places around her new place. You know, look up best chinese, thai, etc. that delivers to her and give her a list with numbers and little tidbits (like the reviewers say their lo mein is to die for). It would take time instead of money, but it would be really nice and thoughtful.

          • TCFKAG, you are one of the most thoughtful people I’ve ever come across.*

            *I can’t say “met,” since I only know you via the interwebs.

    • A set of nice wine glasses and a bottle of wine. Even if she’s not entertaining, it’s more fun to drink wine out of a nice glass.

      • Agreed. Also, this sounds horrible but the other day I swung by the dollar store to pick up some cheap stuff and they had some genuinely nice wine glasses. I got a set for my dad and he loves them like crazy. $8 for a whole set!

    • Is she new to Chicago? Are you here, too? I love the museum shops at the Art Institute, the Cultural Center, and Chicago Architecture Foundation for decorative items that are related to the city.

      Alternatively, maybe she would be interested in a terrific 30-year-old guy? I presently have one in stock. That’s the kind of thing that really dresses up a couch. And she can take him with her, when she’s done with the sublet.

      • If ANP doesn’t want the guy, I’ll take him. That is the sort of home good I could really use! As long as he’s not a ginger…I think a ginger would clash with my couch.*

        *Kidding! I love gingers.

      • Ummmm, this is hilarious! So funny. She has an awesome boyfriend right now but I will keep your advice in mind, PM, in case that changes.

        I’m married, but if that 30-year-old guy cooks/cleans/is trained as a masseuse, I’d consider inviting him to live in our guest room.

        Oh, and back to my TJ — she’s not new to Chicago, and I used to live there but now live about 90 minutes away. I big pink puffy heart the museum shops you mentioned but won’t have time to swing by before I see her.

        • Does she have what I fondly refer to as an “old lady cart” for shopping? Like this:

          Not the sexiest gift in the world but I use mine all the time, purchased at an Ace Hardware. I see lots of other gals using these in Chicago, they’re really handy. I’d put a ridiculously big bow on it to make her laugh and maybe include a bouquet of flowers to liven the place up and make it feel more like her own.

      • PM and a., this made my day :)

      • I have a beautiful 26-year-old cousin in Chicago who might be interested in a terrific 30-year-old guy.

        I think there should be a mixer where the single Chicago corporette’s (and their single friends and relatives) can meet said guy – Millionaire Match Maker style.

        • I think we should have a Chicago Corporette meetup in June, when we have at least one out-of-town ‘rette visiting.

    • Some luxurious sheets or towels or soaps or candles or a vase/ornamental object of the sort she might not splurge on for herself? (I tried to get a good price range in there :))

  13. Legally Brunette :

    Funny, I was just going to post about a very similar dress that I bought. It’s a GORGEOUS color, very nice fabric, and totally work appropriate. 38 inches long, which is a good length for work for many people. Reminds me of that stunning DVF sheath that Kat posted last week. Unfortunately, it did not fit me correctly so it’s a return, but would look fabulous on someone who is the same size on top and on the bottom. Don’t pay full price, Lord and Taylor always has sales. I bought mine for $75.

    • MissJackson :

      I love this — can you give more insight on how the sizing runs, Legally Brunette? I’m larger on top than on bottom (but only by about one full size).

      • Legally Brunette :

        Hi there, I’m the opposite body type as you – about a 2/4 on top, 4/6 on the bottom. The dress was too snug across my hips, and going up a size didn’t look right either. I think the dress runs small in the hips – with that said, it was fairly snug on top. It’s a beautiful dress thoug, so worth trying out if you like it. I got free shipping, so perhaps just order a few sizes and see? They also have this dress in the store.

  14. I mean this in the nicest possible way, but whoever’s site that is is kind of a moron. One entry: “I have the Sorel Joan of Arcadia for my cold, snowy, upstate New York city.” The comment says, “Which is where, exactly? Fort Tryon Park?” The tag is”Geography FAIL.”

    How about Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Watertown, Batavia, Cortland, Utica, Plattsburgh?

    New York is a state, in addition to being the name of one city in that state. Geography fail is all yours, tumblr author.

    • In response to the tmblr thing.

      Posting in the right place FAIL.

    • Oh, I see – they read it as “[upstate] [New York City]” instead of “[upstate New York] [city]”. You’d think the capitalisation would be a tip!

    • Jenna Rink :

      Yes! That annoyed me too.

      • I totally noticed that too and it took me a minute to work out the explanation that Frugal City Girl diagrams so well. Apparently some people don’t realize there’s more to the state than NYC! :-)

    • It’s a common mistake! If I’m referring to upstate, I usually write “Upstate New York,” or “Western New York State,” so there’s no confusion.

  15. OK, Type A ladies, I need your advice. DH & I are trying to conceive our second child and I am a stressed-out mess. When I know I’m ovulating, I freak out and have total performance anxiety. Last night was sort of a key night for us — and I couldn’t go through with it, I was so nervous and keyed up. I felt awful and upset, DH doesn’t understand why I’m feeling this way and I can’t seem to explain it in a way that he can understand. Heck, I barely understand it. He feels like this should be a fun, sexy time for us (I agree) but I am not feeling sexy in the least. I am so focused on the goal that I’m not having much fun at all, which is a huge bummer for us both.

    With our son, we got pregnant the second month we tried and we weren’t on a timeline, so the stress never had a chance to build up. And for whatever reason, my baby fever is actually stronger this time! This time around, every month it doesn’t happen, I get upset and feel like we’re losing time. Part of it is fearing too large of an age gap between our oldest and No. 2. (I’m the oldest of four and the gap between me and the next sibling was sort of a Thing That Bothered Me while I was growing up, so I’m really sensitive to it.) Also, my three closest friends have recently had miscarriages while TTC their second child and part of me worries that I’ll be next.

    DH is frustrated and tells me I just need to relax and stop worrying about every little thing, which stresses me out even more. I know he’s right, though … so how do I do that? Our sex life is great when we’re not under pressure, but I’ve managed to suck the fun out of it for at least a week every month. Guilt + blame + stress are not exactly ideal conditions for conceiving a child.

    • DH and I are TTC our first, and I feel a similar stress (mostly because of timing – if things don’t work out in the next couple months we’ll have to wait another year), so know you are not alone! The two week wait is completely unproductive for me.
      I wish I had more advice, but being in the same Type A mindset, the best I can do is commiserate! Maybe try getting new fun undergarments (trying to avoid moderation!), that usually helps get me in the mood no matter how stressed out I am.

    • River Song :

      I’m sorry to hear about your stress! I don’t have much advice to offer, but the book “Real Food for Mother and Child” has a lot of information on a “conception diet”: food that both you and your partner might find helpful and healthy as you try to conceive. I like eating, so thinking about food is fun, at least for me. :) Planning menus/cooking might refocus your mind a little.

      My other suggestion is: Can you afford a little vacation, maybe a pre babymoon with just the two of you (leaving the little one at home)? A change of scenery might help you feel better. I highly recommend the island of St. John (and can recommend a place to stay there, if you like).

      They say that the things you want happen after you let go and stop wanting them. I have found that to be the case in my own life, but that’s easier said then done. Hang in there, and know that you’re not alone in these feelings.

      • Hey River Song, how did your Phd Comp Exams go? :-)

        • River Song :

          Stressful but I got through them! Thank you for asking. :) The questions were difficult, but I felt prepared for the most part. Finally turning them in on Monday morning was thrilling, then I crashed on Tuesday from exhaustion. Just found out this morning that I may have to wait longer than normal to find out the results, as one of my committee members had to leave town for a family matter. So, I’m waiting…

    • Diana Barry :

      Any way you can ignore when ovulation happens and just have sex every other day for a month? :) Alternatively, can you try the lie-there-and-think-of-England approach? (Ordinarily I don’t recommend this, but it is helpful to me when I am really tired and DH is raring to go.)

      • Something about the “lie there and think of England” approach always freaked me out. If I’m not up for it, it’s not happening.

    • You sure you want/are ready for a second? No shame in saying you’d rather not try right now/this month/this year if that’s the case.

    • Just wanted to say I hear ya, sister. We conceived #1 the first month of trying (which I realize is ridiculously lucky) and are now going on 8 months of actively trying for #2 with no dice. I don’t get performance anxiety as much as I get completely disheartened and therefore am not in the mood at all. We think we *might* want three kids and I’m 31, so at the pace this is going I’m not sure we’ll even get 2!

      • 31 is not old and you have plenty of time to have two more kids. For heaven’s sake, when I was 31 I talked to my OBGYN about my worries that I was getting too old, and she basically told me that I was young and to get a grip.

        • Yes, but this is an ultimate YMMV situation – my mother entered full-blown menopause and had her last period when she was 35.
          My OBGYN looked at me when I was 28 and said given my family history, if I really meant it when I said I wanted 3 children, I’d better get on the ball.

          Everybody’s experience differs with this. It also makes a big difference how many children you want, how far you want them spaced, other health issues, etc.

          • That’s totally true. I violated my cardinal rule of Internet Advice-And-Commentary (which is “My experience is not your experience!”). But for whatever it’s worth, I just want to encourage other 31+ year olds who are reading this and thinking about children. For many women, 31 is by no means too old to start having children (even if you want three!).

        • Yes, sorry, didn’t mean to imply my child bearing years are over with at 31! But I do think we’ll want 3 kids and I can’t imagine trying before the youngest is at least 18 months old (based on my experience with our first). It took me and DH a loonnnng time to get back to normal, um, intimacy levels after Kid 1 (6+ months), and we aren’t the type to baby make back-to-back — which I know some people endorse bc you get all the pregnancy/birth stuff over relatively fast. I’m not tough enough for that!

    • if it makes you feel better, I was like this too last year, and he was to an extent- whatever, we were pushing the clock and got it done (8 mo now). so i would say- don’t expect perfection in all things- great if you can have it be fun/romantic whatever, but well if we hadn’t waited til mid-30s, that’d be easier less pressure. so it’s ok in my view if you are more results-oriented, try not to pressure yourself.

    • Hear ya, sister. We conceived our first accidentally (oops) so we did not do one bit of planning. I got my IUD pulled in December, we got pregnant in February, and then I miscarried. Now I’m a little bit insane, though trying to keep it in check. I had a followup ultrasound after the m/c to make sure the lady parts were okay, and my OB could see a follicular cyst consistent with near ovulation. She told me that I should wait a cycle before I tried again. I went home and had s*x with my husband twice in two days in an attempt to get pregnant, against her advice. I am not a crazy, doctor advice ignoring person in the rest of my life.

      Honestly, I’ve decided not to go the track your ovulation route, because I think I would get insane. I keep track of my cycle, try to have more S*x with my husband at mid cycle, and let nature be nature. I find the TTC stuff to be overwhelming and stressful, so I’ve just shut that door because I know what it would do to me.

      What about backing off? You got pregnant pretty easily the first time, are you on a tight timeline? I miscarried between 1 and 2, and while it was a bummer, it was not the end of the world (ask me again if I can’t get pregnant or m/c again). I find medicalizing the conception process to be stressful, so we’re letting the chips fall where they may. Also, I have total baby fever (if we have number 2, we’ll be done) and am so excited to go through the pregnancy/small baby stuff while not working 80 hours a week as a resident.

    • My DH and I are on month 6 of TTC our first. I have been actively charting and watching for the “signs” that I am ovulating for the last two months. (Today actually happens to be THE day, so we’ll see how it goes!) And TTC is almost all that I can think about, but we are having the reverse problem of what you described above. The anxiety of it all is getting to him and it’s causing problems with the “finishing” for him. As in, 2-3 hours of sex to finish or not at all. This month we went to doing it on a set schedule of every other day NO MATTER WHAT and it seems to be working better. And I don’t tell him when I’m ovulating or that I will be ovulating soon, which seems to have helped. We’ve also ramped up the foreplay a bit.
      Per suggestions of the hive, I just got the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility and have been reading through it this week. I’m a HUGE Type A personality so for me the more I know and prepare for something the less anxiety I have over it. The book can be a little overwhelming and the first day of reading it stressed me more, but the more I read the more I feel like I have control over this and it’s calmed me down some. If that doesn’t help, I would go with DB’s approach of “just lie there and think of England.” Not the best, but would definitely work for you since it doesn’t technically matter if you finish. ;)

    • Why has no one yet suggested WINE? An easy way to get yourself to relax, if you’re anything like me.

    • DH and I just set a date for when we’ll start TTC #1, it’s still a good 9 months away but it’s already all I can think about. As soon as we made a concrete plan, it just became real instead of hypothetical “one day.” I’m very interested to read this responses because, given how I feel already, I’m sure I will be a distracted, nervous mess when the time actually comes.

    • Anon in ATX :

      Nothing really to add here except to sympathize. DH & I are on month 9 of trying for #1 and we definately had a few rough months around the holidays. I had this totally unreal expectation that I was going to tell my parents on Christmas b/c I thought it would be so sweet. Anyways, I too have decided to shut the door on most of the TTC stuff. I take my temperature and chart but I do not look at anything that predicts ovulation. One thing I discovered from temping is that my iphone app was waaaaay off on my ovulation dates, which doesn’t help!!

      Anyways, DH was also having stress & problems finishing which in someways is worse b/c he doesn’t have the luxury of laying there & “thinking of England” as some others have stated. So we stopped talking about it and just try to do it every other day until we know. Good luck!

      • Another S :

        Also adding my sympathies. DH and I are only on month 4 of actively TTC #1 and it’s been so much harder – and I’ve been so much more obsessive, type A – than I expected. I am glad that, at least in theory, I have the luxury of “laying there and thinking of England” although I try to “put on a good face” because I know that otherwise I’m just making it that much harder for DH. Our schedules are such that we can’t always just do it every other day so we’ve been charting and testing and what have you so we know when we absolutely have to rearrange our schedules… which makes everything extra uns*xy. Somehow, DH has been pretty great through all of this. One thing that might have helped was that I told him I was fine with him/us doing whatever was necessary to get his sp*rm in close proximity to my egg and I wouldn’t hold anything he did or didn’t do against him if he didn’t hold anything I did or didn’t go against me. While this further separated our TTC s*x life from our normal s*x life, I think it helped take some of the pressure off.

        Now, anyone have any suggestions for how I can distract myself during the TWW? This month I’m super busy with a deal and I still can’t get my mind off of it. Ugh!

    • Honestly: forget the timeline. I know you want kids close in age, but that’s not something you can control. Miscarriage is also something you can’t control. It might happen, it’s very painful … but worrying about it now WILL NOT prevent it from happening. It will just make you more miserable.

      I say this as someone who went through painful infertility, including several miscarriages, while trying for #1. We then adopted #2, then got pregnant with our third by surprise, miscarried that pregnancy, then I got pregnant again 6 months later and carried that one to term. So I get it. I really, really do. But worrying and freaking is not going to help.

      • Totes McGotes :

        As a childfree person I haven’t chimed in on this thread, but GovtMom’s let-it-be response seems like great advice… also I don’t know what your experience was, but in my experience a lot of the weirdness that age differences can bring to a sibling relationship has a lot to do with how the parents respond to it. My sister (5 years younger) and I had a horrible relationship growing up in part because our parents were close friends and protectors of their younger siblings and just expected that I would do the same, even though the age difference combined with *very* different personalities made it sort of nonsensical to think we would do very much together. I think we’d have had a better relationship if my parents weren’t so pushy about it. So even if you can’t control the spacing of your kids, you can control what kind of input you contribute to their relationship.

        Try not to worry. Maybe also have some wine as Samantha advises!

        • I have one sibling 22 months younger, one 4 years younger, and one 8 years younger. I’m closest to the one 8 years younger. Furthers from the one 22 months younger. It caused a lot of problems when we were younger that we were so close together, we are both very competitive and I always won (because I was bigger, older, stronger, etc…) to this day he hates the things that I did better than he (tennis, some musical instruments, etc…) We had big fights, including physical. It didn’t help that I matured early even for a girl and he matured late even for a boy.

          I think it finally clicked both with him and the 4 years younger (sister, so female competition crud there too) a couple years ago when we were looking at pictures and they both said “you were so much bigger than us! We always thought we were the same as you!” And I’m sitting there thinking “Well, you weren’t, and I never ever thought you were. DUH.” But them trying to compete with me and beat me caused a lot of problems between us that may or may not ever heal.

          It didn’t help that my dad is super-competitive guy. When I started beating him in tennis (granted, I was only 12 so that had to sting) he would break rackets, storm off the court, have hissy fits, etc…It was almost the most important thing to him to win, no matter how much you outmatched the person you were competing against.

  16. Shopping PSA – J Crew is taking an extra 30% off sale items with SHOPNOW. I had to do enough damage to make shipping it overseas worth the extra cost…or at least that’s what I’m telling myself!

    • Thanks!

    • Marie Curie :

      Were you ordering from outside the US? Because when I change it to ship to my country (in Europe), I somehow don’t have the option to enter discount codes. (Changed it back to US and the option was back, too. Too bad I don’t live in the US.)

      • Rural Juror :

        I saw something about free shipping, free returns and no duty when ordering to Europe – maybe try calling their customer service? It’s no 30% but it’s a start.

      • Sorry, just saw this – time difference and all. I am ordering from outside the US but am having the package sent through a mail forwarding company. I used to have J Crew shipped directly to me in Asia but now that they’ve changed their international shipping system, the prices (now in local currency) have shot up astronomically (in addition to not being able to use any discount codes – boo).

        • Marie Curie :

          Ah, I see. Yeah, the prices in my currency are pretty horrible. I will have to look again into mail-forwarding companies but from what I remember, they were very pricey too.

  17. Had to share – I had the best shopping experience at White House Black Market on Tuesday.

    I had a dressy event to attend on Tuesday evening and weeks ago I found a nice sleeveless black dress. Thought I could wear with a wrap if it as chilly. I’m on a new medication and that morning I woke up with a giant ugly bruise on my arm. I would have to wear/fight the wrap all evening…yuck. So at work that morning I called White House Black Market and asked if they had any dresses on sale in my size. The associate was wonderful said she had 4 or 5 and she would hold them back until I came by 3. I told another coworker – who also needed some thing to wear that night and we left work early and ran by the store. The store associate was awesome… both my friend and I left with new outfits – under $100 a piece. My skirt/shirt combo will work for dressy events but also work. She offered shoes to try them on with…. she purposely scoured the sale racks for us. I don’t shop there that often but I certainly will now.

    • If you are on a new medication that’s causing bruising as an unexpected side effect, PLEASE call your doctor ASAP. There are some uncommon, but very severe, drug reactions which show up this way.

  18. Restaurant help? :

    Can any New Yorkers recommend good, fast, not-too-terribly-overpriced places to eat near the MoMA?

    • La Bonne Soupe

    • How many blocks East do you want to venture from the MoMA?

      Sushi-teria is 601 Lex (between 53rd & 54th)
      Cheap & quick

      If you’re willing to walk a bit further into the East side, there’s Thai 51

      • Restaurant help? :

        Excellent, thanks! We’re happy to walk a good distance, but won’t have a lot of time. Coming into town briefly for one of the Kraftwerk shows, and just need something to eat beforehand. Last time I picked a pre-concert restaurant in Manhattan blindly, I ended up with decent enough food but it was overpriced even for NY and the service was painfully bad. Don’t want to do that again.

  19. Thank you all so much for your black pump suggestions! I thought I’d try this again since you all were so helpful!

    Looking for color (prefer turquoise or blue) large stone drop earrings like this:

    • Not exactly the same, but how about these in the blue (though I like the red as well!)

    • Seattleite :

      This is available in both aqua and deep blue:

      I can’t speak to quality because I’ve never ordered from Stella & Dot, but I’ve seen lots of stuff I’d like to try once my bling ban is over.

  20. AnonCommencement :

    Law school graduation is coming soon and I am looking for a commencement outfit. I don’t think my school has a particular dress code, but in previous years, women have usually worn nice dresses (mostly). I would really like to get a nice print dress and found this one on Zara

    that I really like because it is more unusual and fashiony. But, I am not quite sure that it would be appropriate for the occasion. Note: I hate the shoes, so please disregard the styling.

    What do you, stylish ladies, think? Thanks in advance!!!

    • Wear whatever you want. You spend 90% of the day under a robe!

      • Seriously. I wore a tank top and shorts under my robe. It was also May in Florida and the commencement was outdoors. I was not about to sweat all over my pretty dress. I still brought a cute dress to change into for the reception and pictures afterwards.

        • AnonCommencement :

          Thank you ladies! JessC this is actually a pretty good idea. The weather where I am is not going to be that bad, though, but I should keep this in mind in case it is abnormally hot.

          • I’d highly, highly, highly recommend JessC’s approach. The weather was abnormally hot (and HUMID!) on the day of my law school graduation, and I ended up wearing the lightest-weight dress I could find in my closet.

      • Get Something You Will Use :

        This. What you wear won’t show in any photos because you will be in your robe. Get something you want for your wardrobe anyway.

    • I love that dress! Wear it!

    • Totes McGotes :

      I wore jeans and cute heels under my robe for undergrad commencement; for law school I stepped it up a leeeeetle by wearing a cute sheath dress I already owned, which was good because I peeled that robe off (over my mother’s protests) immediately after taking one or two pictures. Velvet/cheap poly blend grad robe + May in a warm climate = Totes sweating her [email protected] off. Not cute.

      Just make sure whatever you wear is a light fabric.

    • AnonCommencement :

      Thank you guys for the comments! I will keep your advice in mind. Zara’s clothes are usually synthetic, so I will have to try this on to see how comfortable the dress will be in hot weather.

      • I agree with people above that you want to wear something lightweight and cool – I sweated like crazy in my regalia. One thing I wish I had done differently is wear darker shoes – the bottom of your calves and your feet *will* show in pictures, and I didn’t like how my strappy brown & cork high heeled sandals looked with the robe in pictures. Also, the bottom of my long green and white floral dress peeked out at the bottom and kind of clashed with the rest of the outfit, so that’s something you might want to think about – I would reconsider wearing long jeans underneath for that reason.

        My family overpowered me and would not allow me to remove the robe, hood, or hat for quite some time until they had taken dozens of photos, so beware of that possibility!

        • AnonCommencement :

          Good point! I had not thought much about the shoes. Black and nude I think would work equally well, but I think black would be better for the same reason you point out. Not sure how long the robe will be exactly. On pictures from previous years, the robes seem pretty long. I don’t think this will be a problem with this dress (esp. if I have to hem it a bit for my height).

          • Totes McGotes :

            I also know lots of people who have done purple shoes, since most law school regalia has purple on it.

      • The dress has a “look at my ladyparts” pattern that having seen I cannot unsee. Ymmv.

        • AnonCommencement :

          Yeyyks, I think there was a similar discussion about a JCrew paisley shirt recently. Thanks for point this out, but, this particular pattern, does not bother me much. I really like the rorschach pattern effect!

      • a passion for fashion :

        i think the dress is beautiful and you should wear it. Its also only 90 bucks, so go for it.

        I wore cute dresses under my robes for both graduations and I had graduation parties to attend (my own and others) where I wore the dresses w/o the robe after the ceremony. So unlike some of the other posters, my dresses were visable. But also, I like to wear pretty things because it makes me feel good.

  21. Ladies, I interviewed with 2 companies yesterday. Both went really well. I heard from one of the companies today. They want me to send my references and hope to get an offer out to me today.

  22. I have this dress. It is cute BUT I am not a heavy lady (115, 5”5) and the sleeves are uncomfortably tight on my arms. I had to snip the seam from underneath.

    • Thanks for the review. How does the sizing run in this dress? I’m between a 4 and a 6 and will buy it if it doesn’t run large.

  23. SoCal Gator :

    To all you fellow readers, JK Rowlings new book was just announced. Called The Casual Vacancy, it will be released September 27th. Can’t wait!

    • Sweet as Soda Pop :

      Best news all day!

    • Just out of curiousity, is it for an adult or young adult audience?

      • Adult. It’s supposed to be a “black comedy” set during a village election. I am skeptical.

        • River Song :

          Hmm. In her position, I might have released the book under a pen name. But good for her for trying something new. And I will read it, whatever “it” is.

        • I wonder if it draws on her personal experiences trying to build this house (that’s eco-friendly) with a nice garden and having to deal with all sorts of very local politics & personalities in getting the zoning.

          I think there was a Daily Telegraph article awhile back about how most of the villagers were supportive, but others were dismissive about how to build this house, she had to knock down the existing one (which was poorly insulated, and not very “green.”)

    • Alanna of Trebond :

      Woooooooooo! I was going to pre-order it on Amazon, but I am hoping that the DOJ wins their lawsuit and the publishers have the reduce the prices.

  24. Lovely dress. I’d wear this with cream slim/straight cut pants, nude-for-me shoes, tan blazer and a smooth brown leather belt. Patterned scarf. And citrine jewelry. The really great thing about a muted bright color like this is that you can wear it with pretty much any color.

    And while I’m here, I’d like to take the opportunity to address some of Tuesday’s comments in response to my post. They really bothered me and I tried to ignore them – after all, none of you know me and who cares what you all think? But I couldn’t stop thinking about it and it kept me up at night, no joke.

    At first, I could not comprehend why people were offended. I just didn’t get it. In my little world, people are what they are. Which has nothing to do with what they do. Two completely separate identities. However, I appreciate that some of you called me out on it, that my wording was indeed not the best and that I should be more careful. Just because I wouldn’t be offended by something doesn’t mean it’s not offensive. And I sincerely apologize for that.

    To those who rushed to my defense, thank you. The sisterhood on here is unlike anything else I’ve come across and I couldn’t stay away if I tried. And with that, I’ll let you go back to your regularly scheduled threadjacks.

    • Completely frivolous, but I love your idea of re-working this dress as a tunic (it does seem a little short) and I think your color combo is perfect. I love the tunic and pants/dress and leggings look, but for some reason I am too self-conscious to do it myself. Not sure why. I am on the shorter size, though, so need to be careful about proportions.

      It’s amazing to think that this relatively simple dress could look so sophisticated (in my head, it looks really fashion-y and sophisticated).

    • MaggieLizer :

      Not sure how I totally missed that debacle but I’m sorry I didn’t see it so I could stick up for you too. <3 you, Ru.

    • Ru people are what they are, but by using stereotypes for comedic value, you show you do know what they mean. I think everyone knows you didn’t mean any harm, but mentioning race and then shock at how he was actually non threatening is offensive. I think you a wonderful poster and add so much here, I appreciate that you digested the comments and hope you weren’t hurt by them. I think we all sometimes need reminders about words (myself definately included, for years I was using a term to mean stupid that was horribly offensive. I knew it was wrong it had just been a habit from where I grew up, and when I said it I never meant hate or even disrespect, but it was disrespectful. I was spoken to by a friend, and I still feel bad about it)

      • Ok — I think that once someone has made a heartfelt apology with a lot of grace and tact, we can refrain from replying to that apology by continuing to chastise them. Enough already.

        • Agreed! Back off!

          • Sorry but it hurt me. I said how much I appreciate Ru, in no way was I attacking her. In fact, I sympathized by offering my own story- I have offended before as well.

            I realize Corporette has become sort of a “cool girls” club where to disagree with a popular commentator is critisized, but I have the right to have a discussion with Ru. You, (and Ru) have the right to ignore it if you want. I was not continuing to chastise her, but rather “close the loop” so to speak on the discussion. It wasn’t offensive to her because she wasn’t in the named group, just like when I was using an offensive word, it wasn’t offensive to me because I wasn’t in the group, but it is universally offensive. Like I said above, I like her posts very much and find them very funny, I was relating my own story more that chastising.

          • In support of anon here. b23, you back off. This isn’t an ad hominem attack, it’s a substantive point, and while I, too, like Ru, I think her response (not that she’s obligated to respond, but if she does, others are permitted to respond) was…inadequate.

          • anon, I didn’t think you were chastising Ru, but I take issue with the idea that you can’t disagree with a popular poster without getting criticized.

            I’ve done it before and so have others without getting a sh!tstorm of criticism, or any criticism. It’s generally brought out some interesting viewpoints.

            Please don’t add persecution mania to your list of grievances.

          • anon, we should certainly be able to disagree with each other. But once Ru explained what she meant, acknowledged that it was poorly worded and could have easily been misinterpreted, AND apologized, you continued to impute malicious intent to her original comment by explaining why “mentioning race and then shock that he was non-threatening is offensive”. She already explained that she did not intend for the two to be linked and apologized for the wording that caused it to seem that way. I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt when she says that she just didn’t mean it the way you read it. Just to be clear, I do believe that we should all be able to disagree with each other, and am not saying any of this in the hopes of being inducted into any “cool girls club”.

      • Thank you for bringing this up because your point clearly demonstrates that I did not write well. I was not trying to stereotype Hispanic males. I was stereotyping strange truck drivers who approach you on a highway. By mentioning the trucker’s race/ethnicity/cultural heritage, I changed the tone of the story. And like many said, doing so didn’t add anything substantive whatsoever.

        As to whether my response is adequate or not, that’s up to you. You don’t have to accept my apology. I’m posting to make myself feel better – I couldn’t stand leaving things the way they were.

        All you lawyers are gonna beat me into being a better writer, I swear. Who knew cruising the internet could be so good for grammar and feelings and stuff =).

        • Seattleite :

          Ru, FWIW, I took what you wrote exactly as you meant it. It harkened back to all those rogue trucker movies of the 1990s. The reference to his ethnicity, I thought, was just to aid in a ‘mental picture’ of the scene rather than imply anything else.

          I’m very sorry that you’ve lost sleep over this. I admire the grace you have shown as you’ve been called out so publicly.

      • I don’t think she was using it for comedic value. She just explained that in her post. She used the term for no particular value at all, but just because it was a fact.

    • I read and enjoyed your account of the biodate and was completely taken aback at the subsequent storm in the responses, and can only imagine how raw you’d feel over them. Now I’m completely in awe that you’ve taken the hard comments in such a generous spirit, undertaken self-examination and come back to put up this second post.

      Do please continue to post and good luck with any future biodates !

    • Ru, I am so glad you posted. Considering I post infrequently and don’t *know* you, it made me really sad that those posts got you down. I truly admire you for using them to reflect and for having the courage to respond with grace and sensitivity. C*rporette wouldn’t be the same without you — your thoughtful responses on serious subjects, your great color sense, and last but not least your wit.

    • Ru, I didn’t participate in the debate but I completely agree with you, and I can’t wait to hear about more biodate adventures! (as well as any follow-up from the last one, including what the “Congratulations” card was all about…)

      • Gail the Goldfish :


        (I didn’t get involved in the original debate, but I will say when I read it, I read it as the point of the story was that yay, we weren’t killed by a complete random stranger (stranger danger!), not that the guy’s race had anything to do with the danger and was included for descriptive purposes. Because details are key to a good story. So I guess my point is I understand why Ru it didn’t occur to Ru that it could be offensive, because clearly she didn’t mean it that way)
        (Second side point–the first time I read it as you were picked up on the side of the road by a Hasidic guy, and I thought we were going to get a touching story about interfaith cooperation and good deeds between the an ultraorthodox jew and the girl in the hijab that could make for the start of some really great RomCom. And then I realized I just read it wrong)

        • Another S :

          Same! Or, rather, similar. When I read your original post I read it to mean the guy wasn’t your Desi knight in shining armor who came to your rescue with his truck. That said, I like Gail’s Hasidic, interfaith cooperation romcom story line even better!

    • *hugs*

    • Ru — leaving aside the debate, may I say I heartily enjoyed the rest of the story. None of my desi friends have ever bio-dated. I just was completely unaware of how insane they could be!

      • Oh and if anyone ever asks you to sing at another date. May I please BEG you to bust out in the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air theme song or another light hearted rap? That would be awesome.

    • Original Latina :) :

      I just want to point out that the “Latina” who posted on your comment Tuesday was NOT me. I comment often with the name “Latina” and up until now thought I was the only one.

      I am a CPA and haven’t been on this site much due to my workload. I just clicked back to Tuesday to see the discussion. I did read your comment Tuesday and looking back I remember reading up to the Hispanic part and thought “ughhh I don’t have time for this site today” and just went on with my day.

      I live in an area where there are probably 5 working professional Latinos. This area has seen a boom in the Latino population over the past 10 years. The recent census had stats with crazy high population growth numbers for Latinos and population decline for whites. Unfortunately the number of crimes has also skyrocketed. I see it as: increased population + decrease in cops (budget cuts) = more crime. Everyone else seems to see: more Latinos = more crime. Ughh

      With that said, I am originally from NJ right over the GWB. Very nice, affluent area. I had many Latino friends with parents that were lawyers, stock brokers and doctors. My nationality was never an issue growing up. I am Puerto Rican. Anyway, once I moved to my current city I was shocked at the mindset my peers have when it comes to Latinos. People are always asking me what part of Italy my family is from. When I say NYC by way of San Juan people are jaw dropped. The idea of an educated Latina is mind blowing to them. I once had a gas station attendant ask me if I was an illegal Mexican. I have to listen to my peers at work talk about “dirty Mexicans with 10 kids using food stamps in front of them at the grocery store”.

      So, now to the purpose of this novel. I have learned to tolerate this kind of stuff. I’ve been following this blog for over 2 years. I know that Ru did not mean to come off racist.
      When I saw Ru’s comment I just saw it as a way to describe the man who picked her up. I do see how someone might think she was stereotyping with the whole “murder” comment. However I saw past it b/c I know that even if the person was white she probably would have put that “and we didn’t get murdered” comment in there. She was picked up on the side of the road .. I would be afraid of getting murdered in the woods no matter who pulled over!

      I just laughed it off. Yes, I skipped the rest of the thread just b/c of that comment. I was already having a bad day and knew that any offensive comments that may follow could worsen my mood :)

      Ru – Don’t even think about it any further. The fact that you commented today shows that you’re not a racist. Even if you were I am not the type of person who would fight back w/ a nasty comment. I have better things to do and I don’t understand how fighting racism with aggression solves anything!

      Ok there goes my billable %s for the day…

      • Original Latina, what a great, thoughtful post. Much respect. +1000 points.

        Now, I know you’ve got billable hours to think of, but I wish you could go and knock some sense into that dangerous idiot, John Derbyshire (who got himself kicked off the National Review) for his racist, reductionist view on black people. The difference between his tone and the tone in Ru’s original post (about the guy who gave them a tow/lift) are universes apart.


        • Alanna of Trebond :

          I do not think Ru is racist, but I’m a desi too, and it’s very easy to have a view that just because someone is not *so* racist like John Derbyshire, that you can’t possibly hold any racist views at all, or never make any remarks that are racially offensive. We are all in the process of refining our views and statements, and criticism can take us to that realization.

          • Anonymous :

            Hi Alanna!

            Not sure why your being desi, too, has anything to do with this discussion, or am I missing something here?

            That aside, I agree that just because someone isn’t on the absolute extreme end of the racist spectrum, doesn’t mean that they might not say stuff that’s potentially a spark in the tinderbox of race issues. I think it’s been interesting to see why some find a given remark offensive (or not.)

          • You make a good point, it’s not a matter of absolute, but I never said that just because Ru’s is not like John Derbyshire that she can’t possibly hold any racist views at all.

            ITA that we all have a number of assumptions that we should challenge (or be challenged on now and then, for our own growth (and for the betterment of society.)

            On a more lighthearted matter, did you ever hear that Avenue Q song, “Everybody’s A Little Bit Racist”? It’s funny, but I recall that it got some folks offended, too, and the reasons given were pretty interesting and educational.

  25. Kat, I don’t know if you read the comments, but is there any way to get rid of the “posting too quickly” error? It happens all the time, regardless of how fast I am actually posting comments, and is so frustrating.

    • Sadie — I’ve never gotten that error (and obviously I post um…frequently) — but I refresh between every time I post or look at the site as a matter of course. Maybe try refreshing more frequently? Its a pain because I have to scroll back down, but it does seem to prevent that error (note I don’t get it in either Chrome or Safari).

    • I refresh and clear my cache every time I post and sometimes I still get that error.

      But then, my office forces us to use horrible IE7 for our browser, so that probably has something to do with it.

    • Always a NYer :

      When I get that message, I refresh that page (sometimes as many as ten times) until it goes away and my comment is posted.

    • momentsofabsurdity :

      Happens to me constantly and drives me nuts, even if I haven’t posted all day. I use Chrome on a pretty fast machine.

    • I have never gotten this. Always use Chrome, post pretty frequently, don’t have any special settings. Maybe I’m just lucky?

      (Now watch me get one!)

    • I get it constantly with Chrome.

    • MissJackson :

      This happens to me constantly, too. While I’m certainly in the “frequent” commenter category, it even happens on my first post of the day (after re-starting my computer).

      On the advice of other wise Corporettes, I learned that if you keep hitting “refresh” and “retry” (sometimes multiple times), your comment eventually goes through. Still annoying but at least you don’t lose your comment that way.

  26. Hi ladies! I just wanted to share my excitement: new job on Monday following successful negotiations (more vacation!), new penthouse apartment with amazing roommates (knocked the price down for me, too!), and I just learned I’m going to be featured in a very prominent news magazine on a career-related subject (don’t want to give too much away yet). Hope you all have a lovely day!

  27. Ladies: Got an interview for a dream attorney job on the right coast. Interview is being coordinated by people on the left coast. Left coast coordinator indicated she’d follow-up by e-mail with a confirmation regarding the agreed on interview time and the like. Hasn’t happened yet and it’s been about two days. I’m thinking of following up Monday morning if I don’t hear back, to confirm (interview is about a week away). Thoughts?

    • When you say right and left, are you standing in Canada looking at the US or standing in Mexico looking at the US? Just kidding! I don’t see any issue following up with her to confirm. Last Gov’t interview my husband had was the same scenario and wasn’t confirmed until the night before I think.

    • Belated response, but the reason for the delay may be that she’s lining up your interviewers (if you’re interviewing with a bunch of people) and that can sometimes take time.

      But it can’t hurt to follow up.

  28. New threadjacket – need gift opinion. Tomorrow evening, hubby and I are attending his younger sister’s Jr/Sr Ring Mass – she goes to an all girls Catholic school in NOLA, and ring Mass is when the Juniors receive their Senior class rings. Question – do we bring a gift? If so, would a pretty necklace suffice? Or is this a flowers sort of thing? Any opinions appreciated. Thanks!

  29. Anonymous :

    Ladies, I ruptured a disc in my back and have been hurting and feeling so down. Catching up on corporate comments this evening took my mind off things and cheered me up. Just wanted to say “thanks” to all – this is such a great community and really makes a difference.

  30. Feel better! Glad the ‘rette community is able to help.

  31. Excellent blog right here! Additionally your website rather a lot up very fast! What web host are you the usage of? Can I get your affiliate hyperlink to your host? I wish my site loaded up as quickly as yours lol

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