Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Is it too early to be talking about winter-to-spring transition pieces? I’m saying no, even though spring is still a long way off in my neck of the woods. This blue tweed skirt from Talbots will work beautifully in the chilly winter months with a navy blazer and a pair of navy tights. (Spanx makes my favorite navy pair, just FYI.)
Come spring, I would probably switch it up with a tucked-in white oxford shirt and some brown penny loafers.
The skirt is $119–$139 at Talbots and comes in plus sizes 14–24, plus petite sizes 14–22, misses sizes 2–18, and petite sizes 0–16.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Workwear sales of note for 9.20.23:
- Nordstrom – 28,000 markdowns, and big beauty sale! Cardmembers earn 3X the points through 9/24!
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off all sale styles
- Banana Republic – Up to 40% off sale styles
- Banana Republic Factory – 50%-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall finds
- J.Crew Factory – 50%-70% off entire site, and extra 70% off clearance with code!
- Ministry of Supply – Shop fall workleisure, 25% off sitewide.
- M.M.LaFleur – Sale on sale, extra 10% off
- Shopbop – Up to 70% off, 1000s of new styles added
- Talbots – 25% off your entire purchase
- Zappos – 18,500+ markdowns for women!
Anonymous
Any success stories for moving past the post-pandemic burnout and general malaise appreciated!
Anon
It sounds counterintuitive but I started getting more intense with other aspects of my life and it’s transferred over into other aspects my life. I had tried rest and recovery for a while but it wasn’t really working for me.
I decided to get serious about losing my COVID 15lbs so I’ve been very committed to diet and exercise. Then I added in a few other habits. It’s now translating into my work, I’m more productive and focused at work.
Anonymous
I’m finalizing leaning into work from home. It took literal years of trial and error but I finally have a routine that makes me grateful that I don’t have an office to go to. I used my last milestone birthday as a wake-up call to prioritize fitness and I’m making significant progress. I’m developing in a social life after realizing that mine literally revolved around work. I actually have a crew of friends that I go out for girls night with now. The fog is lifting.
Anonymous
Can you please say more? How did you do this? Especially the group of girlfriends.
Anon
I know I sound like a broken record, but my social problems were all but fixed when I moved back to my home city. I only had a handful of friends still here but met a lot of their friends and have two really great local circles of friends. Just being able to plug in as a local really helped, I think.
My ride or dies are my college friends, but I really love my social life I have here. Not having to start from scratch was so, so helpful.
anon
I moved back to my home city and have not had this experience at all. It’s been really disappointing. People are just super busy, especially if they have kids. I see my own family less than I expected.
Anon at 9:28
I just started reaching out to people, inviting them to hang out. People I met through the kid’s school, the wives of my husbands friends,ect. It was weird and awkward at first. A lot of people flaked out or just weren’t that fun. But certain people were fun and reciprocated and I make sure to say “yes” whenever it’s possible to hanging out. Fwiw I live in my hometown, I’m married to someone I went to high school with and making friends was still a struggle for me.
Hellooooooo
Yes! Tips to foster new friends?
Anon
Not the poster but… follow up. Invite people to do when mundane things- exercise classes, Target runs, neighborhood walks. Don’t say ‘we should get together’, say ‘hey! It was great running into you. If you’d be interested, I take a barre class on Tuesdays at 4pm that I think you would love!
Anon
+1
This
And also don’t be afraid to throw out a few… “I’m going to the coffee shop/movie/class/pub/whatever every Thursday at Whenever. Join me if you can!” And spend some of those alone, and some with folks as they step up. Also, joining any group that meets regularly is the best – class/workout/pub games/volunteer group/cycling AM rides/book club/start a group.
Most folks are a little lonely as they age. Most folks. So if you take the extra initiative many people are grateful.
I have always found my best new friends/contacts by asking other friends who live nearby OR FAR AWAY… ?Who do you know near me that I should meet? Trust your friends to lead you.
Monday
Does anyone have the Gaspard cardigan from Sezane? Can you help me figure out what size to get?
I have a fairly small frame but am busty and don’t like things tight in the chest. Small in most sweaters is fine for me, but for a cardigan I want to wear on its own I need to think about gaping at the buttons. Should I size up to account for this, or is it roomy enough that it will lay flat in your regular size? Thanks.
Emma
Sezane is on the smaller side in my experience. If you want to wear the cardigan closed I would definitely size up. I mostly wear cardigans open so I just need to have them fit my arms and shoulders. I don’t have this specific cardigan though!
Anonymous
At a certain point aren’t these sizing questions so specific you just need to buy it and try it on?
Anon
The Gaspard is their best known/ highest selling piece. I feel like I know ten people who have one.
Anon
I feel like no, sometimes this site has kept me from even bothering with brands that would never suit me (Theory, Reiss, etc.). If I could try on in person, I would, but especially with COVID, don’t have the bandwidth of mail-order roulette. My wallet also thanks me for this. The easiest way to save $ (and time) is not to spend it.
Curious
+1
Anon
I have one! I bought my normal size. I tend to wear it with the buttons in the back, but when I do wear it with the buttons in the front – it distorts a bit and I have a small chest. I would go up a size and see if that works.
Anon
I should have sized down. My regular size fits on the baggy side and I kept it, but I’d wear it more often in a smaller size.
NYCer
Yeah, this is where I fall too actually. I am not busty, but I find my normal size to be quite loose.
Monday
Thanks for the input! The brand had been mentioned here and the sweater comes in so many colors that I did assume someone here would have info.
Lily
Literally just got the Gaspard yesterday and am returning it. It’s lovely but runs big. I ordered the medium, I am 5’4 and 145 lbs. The small would probably work, but I’m not sure if I will re-order. Given the price, I was expecting it to be a little less basic. Don’t get me wrong, it’s very nice. I think I will order one of their more detailed cardigans instead.
Anon
Y’all got me interested in this sweater so l looked on the website, and like two of the colors.
However, there isn’t a single picture of the model just standing up with the sweater untucked so I can tell what it actually looks like. That drives me insane. I also can’t find a size chart!
Anon
I’m sure this has been asked and answered already, but it’s not easily searchable. How does MMLaFleur sizing run? I’ve never bought anything from there before and I’m looking at the Smith Washable Wool pant.
Anonymous
MMLF lists the body type for each garment, so you can see whether it’s curve friendly or not.
Anon
For me that are similar to Banana Republic, Loft, etc. I wear a 2/XS in all. But there are some MM pieces that run even larger (some of the more oversized shirts and a few of the pants).
Lily
In my experience it runs small in some items but not all. Back when I was reliably a size 4/6 in mall brands, I would get an 8 in MMLF dresses and a few things in a size 10, and the jardigan in medium. Now that I’m more of an 8/10 in mall brands, only my size 10 MMLF items still fit.
Anon
+1
This was my experience.
Anon
Mine too. When they had plus sizes, my cusp sized self often had to buy the +3 (3x) when I often bought XL in other sizes. But I did hear somewhere, probably here, that the plus sizes ran particularly small.
Curious
+1. My size 10 Foster pants fit like a Levi’s size 6, maximum 8.
ElisaR
accurate
Emma
Good morning! We are considering a potential move to Portland, OR for DH to pursue a medical fellowship for at least 2 years. We currently live in Canada. If you’re familiar with the Portland area, what are the pros/cons? I know about the rain, just wondering about overall vibe, safety, schools and daycares, COL, healthcare, diversity, anything else I might not be thinking of. The nature looks beautiful. We have a daughter and a dog, and would like another child in the next 2 years. We currently live in a diverse and very walkable urban area and really like that. I know about the rain! I would hopefully just keep my job remotely but otherwise, I am barred in NY and currently work in-house in healthcare, can anyone speak to the legal job market? We would obviously do an exploratory trip but I’ve never been and don’t know much about the PNW.
Anon
I thought about this when my BF moved there from a major east-coast city. I found that the legal market was smaller than I hoped for, but it is just not that large of a city. It is pretty and fun though and can be walkable if you can afford those areas (like Canadian cities, I suspect). It helped a lot if you were going from a pricier area to Portland because housing seemed to be high versus local salaries. Ultimately, I didn’t move for other reasons. I think it could be a fun place for a couple of years but I did not have kids then and have no idea how kid friendly it is or isn’t.
Anon
I’ve heard nothing about great things about Portland in every area you mention…except diversity. My sibling goes often to visit a childhood friend and her husband…he loves the city, and has found that it’s actually surprisingly great COL (we live in a MCOL city that’s turning into HCOL)…but he always mentions that he tends to be the only BIPOC when they explore different neighborhoods, get together with friends, etc.
Seattle
Love the PNW but if you’re coming from a diverse location Portland is going to feel VERY white.
Safety and vibe (and walkability) are going to depend a lot on where you’re living/working and what your baseline comparison is. There’s a lot of homelessness, but that’s true of a lot of cities.
Anonymous
Pros: beautiful city, fantastic outdoor access, great restaurant scene.
Cons: staggering homelessness, expensive housing, dysfunctional local government, lack of diversity, tiny legal market. And the rain.
Anon
The rain is a pro for some of us! I love rainy weather. But otherwise I agree.
Emma
We’re in Canada and it’s bright but really cold. I grew up in Europe so I’m used to milder temps and gray winters, it’s not a major concern for us.
Anon
Yes Portland is more like European winter. I think you’ll be fine weather wise.
Anon
My husband and I spent a couple days in Portland in 2019. I’m not gonna lie, we really hated it. We’ve traveled quite a bit throughout the U.S. and internationally, and haven’t disliked any other major city we’ve visited that I can remember. We found Portland to be really dirty, the people we met weren’t super friendly, and there is a serious homelessness crisis that I’ve heard has gotten even worse since COVID. I know others on this board have mentioned the influencer Charly Goss and she and her husband had a similar experience last year – I think they actually cut their trip to Portland short to go somewhere else. I have a couple acquaintances who live there and seem to love it, but they are all super outdoorsy types so I’m guessing they don’t spend that much time in the city and more time exploring. The food and wine scene is also excellent, so it has that going for it.
Anon
Living in Portland and being a tourist in Portland are two very different experiences.
Anon Above
Yes, and normally being a tourist is easier and more fun than living somewhere. Being a tourist in NYC is much more glamorous than living there, for example (having done both and still enjoy NYC).
Curious
Hah, I liked living in NYC better than being a tourist there, and I suspect I feel the same way about Rotterdam.
Anon
I don’t have much experience with Portland OR (went for a weekend in 2011 and enjoyed it, though I realize it may have changed quite a bit since then) but I disagree that being a tourist is by default easier and more fun than living somewhere. I think it depends on the place and a variety of other factors including how much money you have.
Seventh Sister
I went in 2019 and had a ball on a work trip (so did a few touristy things when I wrapped up work), but the city seemed quite small to me. Like a mini-Seattle without so many high rises. Then again, I’m an Angeleno so I’m used to an endless vista of suburb-urb-industrial park lol. I remember thinking that were fewer homeless encampments than I was used to seeing in LA, but that was probably where I was staying more than anything else.
Anonymous
Where do you stand politically? Unless you are progressives, the local government will likely drive you nuts. And I saw a surprisingly high level of homelessness and public drug use.
Anon
Progressives are not “for” homelessness and public drug use, we just, as a rule, don’t advocate for policies that are more akin to pest control, that is, forcing them out of sight/out of mind of polite society and making tough lives more miserable, while doing little to address root causes.
Anonymous
You just made my point for me. If you don’t share this view 100 percent I would not move to Portland. I am not some MAGA fan, just a fan of London Breed’s more sensible approach to balancing everyone’s needs.
Anon
But are Portland progressives effective at addressing root causes?
I honestly don’t know; the only Portland drama I ever followed was zoo drama (which I recall reflected very poorly on the people running Portland).
Anon
Short answer, no they are not effective. So much tax money poured in and no one can seem to agree on anything. Frankly it’s driving some high net worth companies and individuals across the river to WA.
Anonymous
Good question, I would love to hear of a place where this progressive doctrine actually yielded positive results, not just an uptick in crime and ruin of city services like parks, libraries and transit systems. It’s like Marxism, which has never actually worked.
Anon
Municipalities that implement aggressive harm reduction measures like widespread deployment of narcan via paramedics and fire departments (as opposed to law enforcement) and safe injection sites have reduced drug OD fatalities by a wide margin. Lots of studies are out there for the googling. Some folks might never get clean, but they’ll also never get clean if they’re dead.
Likewise, housing-first is proven to work to reduce the number of unhoused people, but takes a serious investment in money and services, and being willing to spend those resources on people that much of society has deemed unworthy. Plenty of searchable sources on that, too.
Anon
I’m all for addressing root causes, but the progressives in my area want to allow RVs and camping anywhere, anytime, no matter what, until every single housing-insecure person in our city is able to choose their dream residence and move in at their leisure.
Emma
We’re left of center for the US (I’m a bit more to the left than DH) but not intense left, so maybe that is something to consider. There is homelessness where we are, but I remember being a little uneasy about the extent of the homelessness on a recent trip to LA so maybe something to consider, especially with kids.
Anon
I grew up in Portland and even though I left almost 20 years ago I miss it almost every day. Staggering natural beauty. Close access to beach and mountains. Excellent public transit. The homeless problem is absolutely bad – but concentrated in a few areas – if you are looking for a house with enough room for two kids and a dog, you likely won’t be in those areas. Legal market is small. It’s very white – growing latinx population, but Oregon has an explicitly racist history (it was in the constitution until 2002! And even then 30% of the population voted to keep the language in!) that it’s still coming to terms with.
Vibe is very progressive, casual/informal in all settings, pro-nerd. Few professional sports teams. Home to lots of quirky introverts.
Anon
+1
This is my experience. My friends who live there are artists and folks who work for non-profits, academics and healthcare. Very progressive (ex-Berkley folks, vegan) and the most lovely interesting of my friends.
Cb
Haha, that’s the exact description of my Portland pal. The SF Mission to Portland pipeline is strong.
Anon
I’m reading this in Berkeley thinking about all my friends who moved to Portland.
Anon
I have a friend who moved from Palo Alto to Portland and bought a lovely house in an area where there’s not much issue with homelessness. He loves, loves, loves it there. There is no reason to think OP and her family could not find a neighborhood that’s not plagued with some of the problema you see in downtown Portland. FWIW, my family and I stayed in downtown Portland in 2019 and yes, the homelessness issue was profound but we never felt unsafe. And honestly, cities across the West struggle with the same problem at similar levels (go look at what’s happening in Phoenix). It seems like very fragile, delicate easterners and northerners have the most issue with it. Us westerners are made of sturdier stuff.
Anon
Lol okay, congratulations on being immune to seeing the symptoms of severe poverty and drug addiction every day?
anon
Westerners prioritize mild weather and outdoor recreation above all else even if it means a high cost of living, greater risk of natural disasters, and larger numbers of homeless people. Easterners and Northerners simply think warm weather isn’t worth the tradeoff. It’s not that my fragile constitution can’t handle the sight of a homeless person. I just can’t imagine paying so much money to live in that area.
Emma
Thanks everyone for the feedback! Lots to consider. We are also looking at other places that are more familiar to us on the East Coast, but the program in Portland is very appealing to DH and they seem to like him so we’ve been giving it more thought. I think we need to schedule a trip to get a better sense of the area and if it’s a fit for us.
Anon
Are you legally able to work in the US without employer sponsorship? I’m a former PNW lawyer; PDX is a very small job market and at least at my firm (with had offices there), needing sponsorship was an immediate disqualifier.
Emma
I’m a US citizen via my American mom, no need for sponsorship. My current employer has US operations so I’m hoping I could just keep my job, but they currently don’t operate in OR so I’m not sure if that’s going to be a dealbreaker.
Anon
Been here for about a decade and live in the city. If it were on the list today I’m not sure I would move here. A lot has changed, particularly in the last 3 years. Public schools while touted to be great, were not. So much tax money funneled to teacher retirement. The taxes are ridiculous, government is very, very progressive, homelessness, open drug use, it is very white (although some suburbs have higher Asian population). All that being said, I love the proximity to nature, being in a very walkable neighborhood, great food and the airport has many direct flights
Emma
Thanks! Any neighborhood recommendations?
Anon
The Pearl, Slabtown, NW for walkabilty to restaurants, shopping and nature but high cost rentals, homelessness, etc. The West Hills are gorgeous but pricey, large homes. Beaverton suburb is somewhat more diverse and the school district seems better (?). Lake Oswego is nice but insular and very white from my observation. Not super familiar with east side. If you’re looking at 2 years you can treat it more as an adventure with an end date!
Anonymous
Born and raised in Portland and I agree with this comment. The access to nature is fantastic, the beer and food scene is top notch but the homeless problem is seriously concerning and the city’s efforts to control it are not working. I left Portland because of the lack of opportunity and when I wanted to come home I couldn’t find a job with a decent growth path. I love Portland but Portland does not love me back sorry to say.
Seventh Sister
As someone who has middle and high school kids in public school, I think it’s a lot easier for a K-5 elementary school to be considered “great” because they are usually rather small and it’s not hard for average-to-bright kids to have a good experience.
In middle and high school, you have older, bigger kids. Even the nicest ones with the best parents know plenty of curse words, can punch each other with some force, and (this is key) can just decide they don’t care about doing schoolwork. I think my kids’ teachers now are pretty good to excellent, but the school community (and the plant!) could use a heck of a lot of work.
Anon
I clerked for a federal judge in Portland about 10 years ago. I like the city but it has gone way downhill in terms of crime. I went back last fall and there were homeless encampments all over the place. I lived in a suburb west of town with decent schools (Beaverton). We would have stayed but the legal market is terribly insular and I couldn’t find a good post-clerkship job. I hope keeping your current job is an option.
Being near the beach and wineries is great. Lots of good restaurants. But the rain is a bummer if you have kids because playing outside when it is 40 degrees and raining is a nonstarter. We got a membership to the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry and spent a lot of time there.
Is he looking at OHSU? There is a sky tram that my kids loved to take just for fun.
Emma
Thanks! Yes, the program would be through OHSU. I’m also hoping keeping my current job in an option because I’m not confident about my ability to get another job there, vs NY or Boston where I have a decent network and could probably find something. But I’m also not ready to have that conversation with them until ours plans are more certain so it’s a little tricky. Life would be a lot more comfortable for us if we still had my salary or some equivalent vs just whatever amount DH would make, plus I have no inclination to be a SAHM.
anon
“Crime”–dog whistle much?
Anon
I don’t understand this comment. According to the FBI, violent crime increased in Portland by 38% in 2021 compared to 2020 but stayed steady in the nation as a whole. Crime is one factor to consider along with the rest, and mentioning it isn’t some kind of secret signal.
Former PDX
Portland is literally the whitest city in America. And its homicide rate (a crime hard to blame on overactive policing and therefore one of my main metrics) has seen a marked increase. It has a real problem with violence, drug use and homelessness. That is not a dog whistle – it is an objective fact.
Although I will note that while it is more dangerous that it used to be, it is certainly not St. Louis or Baltimore. In fact, I do not even think it is in the top 10 most dangerous cities in America on a per capita basis. And it is not really fair to judge the whole city by its worst parts.
Anon
How is “crime” a dog whistle?
anon
Oh my goodness this way of thinking is so silly. Most people- black, brown, white, poor, rich—do not want to live in a high-crime area and will avoid it to the extent possible. It’s also a bit racist for you to assume that crime means minority, isn’t it?
Seventh Sister
Living in a big, diverse city, lots of the non-white people I know or encounter will bring up crime and homelessness absolutely unprompted. And not obviously well-off non-white people either – folks in customer service, the plumber, the doctor’s office receptionist. I am a middle-aged white woman, so I do look like a sympathetic ear, I suppose. Lots of people worry about crime.
Anonymous
ugh
Anon
Not every reference to crime is a dog whistle. Portland has serious issues with crime – both violent crime and property crime are very significantly higher than the national average.
Anon
You’re the one making this inference so I’m thinking if there’s racism here, it’s coming from you.
Anon
I would absolutely visit Portland before agreeing to live there. I live in another “hip” city and have visited many U.S. cities… and Portland is the only city I would go out of my way to never go again. The food scene seemed overblown– we did not have anything we couldn’t have had in our own city. The homelessness is absolutely worse than in most cities (and any other city I’ve been to). The public drug use was also excessive. Downtown smells like urine and weed. My understanding is that there are some nicer neighborhoods outside of downtown, but we had a difficult time accessing them without a car. It seemed like once you were in the neighborhood, you would be able to walk around without a car, but it was difficult to get around the city as a whole without one. (It’s not NYC). Overall, I would never choose to live in Portland, and I believe a lot of the attributes it’s marketed as having are overblown.
Anonymous
I live in Portland city (and have since 2017) and I’d say your experience will really depend on where you choose to live (this is a good thing! you have a lot of control over where you live). There is no like daily rioting and looting despite what fo x news would have people believe. It is however a small-medium city that is experiencing growing pains, but is still lower COL than other west coast cities (e.g. sac, sf, la) and so that’s why it’s still growing!
Is his program at OHSU? If so, you’ll want to live on the west side for commuting purposes anyway. If you live closer in to downtown it’ll be a more urban experience – there is definitely homelessness but I’ve lived in Boston and SF for years and I don’t think it’s any worse here than in similar places in those 2 cities. Portland is all about neighborhood pockets. If you live on the west side it’ll be a way more residential/neighborhood-y experience. You can also choose to live further out in the burbs and the burbs are basically like burbs anywhere else.
By the dollar, we’ve found food here to be outstanding, the outdoors to be incredible and people to be nice. We have found a friendly community although there are just fewer transplants % wise so more people have big social networks already and aren’t always looking for new friends – look for the other transplants! I’m asian and agree that a big drawback is the lack of diversity. If you like outdoor activities – it is incredible (sans rock climbing). We hike, trail run, kayak, paddle board and ski regularly.
I would check out: multnomah village (SW), hillsdale (SW) both of which are good commuting to OHSU per our friends who work there. If you want to be closer in to downtown check out goose hollow, the pearl, or slabtown nw23rd area. On the east side, I’d look at sellwood, the alberta area, division and hawthorne areas (skews a lot younger) but really you want to think about the commute. For burbs…depends on commute!
Emma
Thanks! Yes he would be commuting to OHSU with long/unpredictable hours so we would need an easy commute.
Anonymous
Multnomah village and Hillsdale are the most walkable neighborhoods near OHSU. a lot of OHSU affiliated folks also live in SW waterfront which is like walking distance to work – it is shiny and relatively recently developed so it’s totally up to you on preferences. personally I’d suggest looking around MV. it will not be as dense and walkable as you are likely used to coming from a bigger city. loads of nice green spaces and parks though!
Anonymous in Portland
I might be commenting too late for you to see this, but I live in Portland, work for OHSU, and am a lawyer–so I have to chime in!
Commute: While OHSU is on the west side, it is fairly central. I find the commute from SE Portland to be easier and more pleasant. Look at neighborhoods like Woodstock, Eastmoreland, Westmoreland, Sellwood, which are all filled with families and parks, yet quite close to OHSU (you just have to cross a bridge).
Walkability: Neighborhoods outside downtown on the west side, while technically in the city limits, feel like suburbs, whereas neighborhoods on the east side tend to be walkable and more a part of the city. You can have a house with a decent yard and be able to walk to get groceries. Of the list above, Woodstock and Sellwood are particularly walkable and have great restaurants and grocery stores.
Safety: Yes, there are times (usually when walking alone downtown) when I have felt nervous around someone who was having an acute mental health issue. My kids attended a downtown daycare (they’re in elementary school now), and we definitely navigated some discomfort during drop-off and pick-up. There are some areas that have many tents and unsafe conditions, and you get to know where those are so you can take a different walking route. This generally is not a problem in residential neighborhoods outside downtown, except for a few particular spots (which are quite obvious when you are house-hunting). It is also not a problem near any of the OHSU facilities.
Diversity: Portland and Oregon are overwhelmingly white, that is true–as is the racist history of Oregon. On the other hand, there are also thriving multicultural communities here. For example, there are many public schools with immersion programs that serve English-speaking kids and kids who primarily speak another language at home–in some cases creating some schools that are much less white than others. There is an incredibly diverse arts scene here, and you can be in diverse communities if you are intentional about it. There is also a strong social justice community here, and a lot of opportunities to work in multi-racial groups for racial justice. OHSU in particular is extremely focused on equity.
Legal/career: The legal community here is so collegial and service-oriented. We don’t have as many large firms (or corporations), but there are several good networking groups to join if you’re looking for a job.
Food: There are so many amazing restaurants that I’ll never get around to all of them. It’s not overblown; Portland has definitely earned its reputation there.
Nature: I’m very outdoorsy and love that I can run in Forest Park on my lunch break (lots of trails and no hint of city life, but in the middle of the city–amazing!), and get to ocean, mountains, hiking, etc. quickly on the weekends. Bike lanes are everywhere. People kayak on the river downtown before work. It’s amazing.
Anon
A cousin who’s Latina moved to Portland and left after a couple years. She felt very out of place with a lack of diversity.
Anon
I see so many double-breasted jackets that I wonder if people are really just always going to wear them buttoned and not bother with a blouse? I had a lot of suit jackets when I was starting out that I wore a fancy tee under to keep the sweat and body funk in a washable layer but didn’t have investment-piece blouses until later when fashions shifted. Like most suits now are styled in pictures with just a bra and I feel like I stopped knowing how to do business attire in 2019.
AIMS
I have been to a ton of work-related events lately and I have never seen any double breasted jacket without a shirt under. I think it would be way too much even if the cut was reasonably tame. I think you still need a shirt under. Als, weirdly or not, people are mostly wearing them open.
Anon
Open just looks so bad (but is much more practical). Jackets are so long now that a suit feels like a mini-coatdress worn over pants; no thanks.
More Sleep Would Be Nice
Maybe because the blazers don’t fit as well as they once did? Maybe that’s just me…
Anon
I wore one of mine open yesterday and plan to do so again today. I don’t think it looks weird. People are taking formerly formal items and making them modern with styling like this. Also pairing with sneakers, so YMMV.
Anonymous
My two cents:
I think that to look current, a double breasted jacket has to be oversized and worn open. A slimmer fitting, buttoned one is more traditional, but right now that look is dated to me. A jacket with just a bra under is just a modelling look, not a real look. The blazer equivalent of a thick cashmere winter coat styled with sandals.
Trish
When I first started practicing law, I wore Kasper and Le Suit all the time, buttoned down, with no shirt underneath. That all had 4-5 buttons and I don’t think they were supposed to be worn open. I didn’t start wearing camis until after 9/11 when we had to take our jackets off at the airport. lol.
Anne-on
Something about this strikes me as dated – probably the pencil skirt combined with a tailored, tucked in top. I wore this exact type of outfit plenty back in the early 2000’s (the days of ‘the skirt’) with a statement necklace (thanks JCrew). If I were to wear a pencil skirt now I’d likely pair it with a boxier cropped sweater. Maybe I wore them too much but I also need a break from the chambray shirts, they were everywhere for a few years!
Anon
If you click through to the item, it’s actually an a-line skirt that must have been pinned to look like a pencil silhouette. The reviews are very helpful. Many items featured here have middling to poor reviews – I don’t get that. I personally don’t make purchases where the reviews skew below 4.0 unless there’s a good explanation.
Sybil
Agreed. I realize with the quantity of posts that they can’t all be personal purchases, but it would be nice to see more consideration of reviews, or even seeing the item in person.
Anon
The pencil skirt with chambray shirt is so J Crew 2008! But I loved that style of dressing.
Anne-on
Same! I had the Jcrew wool pencil skirts in 3-4 colors (plus camel/navy/black) and wore them with contrasting colored sweaters/blouses all winter long for years. It was warm, cozy (with knee high boots) and totally office appropriate while still having some personality. Also, uniform dressing was just easier when I still had to commute!
Anon
Pencil skirt, contrasting sweater, bubble necklace, and ballet flats…chef’s kiss. Those were the days.
Anon
Yes! Surprised that this skirt is called A-line, but I have a fondness for both late 80s JCrew and 2008 JCrew (like I am so old that I remember that conditioner used to be called “creme” rinse). I used to be so happy when their catalog would come in the mail. I still love going into the JCrew Factory store in my new city with my daughters — even if it costs me an outfit per child, I am just so happy that all of this overlaps in my life now.
Senior Attorney
I LOVED that look! With a nice sparkly statement necklace or, better yet, an “arm party” of bracelets!
Cat
It’s def the chambray shirt!! Takes me straight back to Baby Lawyer days of the late 00’s.
I actually like the skirt but would pair it with a simple sweater and bold studs, not a shirt.
Anon
I still like the pencil skirt look; I think they look a lot more polished and put together than a-line skirts, at least on me. I’m still wearing my old ones, but it’s driving me nuts that they’re no longer “current.” I strongly prefer to wear skirts to work (pants are uncomfortable for sitting at a desk, dresses seem to get tiresome more quickly) , but can’t find new ones I like!
Anon
You can’t find new ones because skirts are largely not that trendy anymore. It’s dresses or pants. I actually find pants way more comfortable than skirts for sitting at a desk, at least I don’t have to worry about flashing anyone.
Anon
I know, I just don’t approve. :)
I recovered from pregnancies very well on the whole, and lost the weight quickly, but I’ve found ever since, pants, well . . . creep.
Anon
The pencil skirt is a classic. I have some beautiful ones that I pair with silk blouses and look fine.
Anonymous
Have you tried Brooks Brothers, Hobbs (at Bloomingdales), Rebecca Taylor? They usually have a few classic pencil skirts.
Anon
I thought the skirt was cute 🤷🏻♀️
Anonymous
Me too!
Anon
It looks very dated. I’m so glad pencil skirts are out. For those of us with large bottoms, IMO, it looked so tight and s3xualized if I bought one that fit my stomach. If I bought one that fit my hips, the waist would be too big.
Trish
That is why I get my clothes tailored.
Anon
My nephew is in HS. Great grades, active in clubs and sports, college-bound,and he’s a nice kid. He messed up and brought a pellet gun to school (not into the building. It was in his car, but on school property. He did not brandish it or threaten anyone). They are saying he will be expelled and referred for felony charges. This is in Florida. My sibling is looking for an attorney and following district procedure to appeal. Any advice, thoughts, or recommendations?
It doesn’t seem to me (not a lawyer) that he committed a felony under state law. And if he didn’t, then the expulsion is unwarranted under district policy. But I am also hearing that they expel students for this same thing on the regular (which is it’s own problem), so the school isn’t inclined to approach this collaboratively.
Anon
The answer is a very good lawyer. Is your nephew over or under 18?
OP
Under
Anon
So the school doesn’t have a zero-tolerance policy but is acting as though they do?
No advice. I regret that after years of think pieces about cases just like this and everything that’s been written about the school-to-prison pipeline, etc., that this kind of thing is still happening.
Trish
Yes. Florida has gotten better but we are still funding police and prisons instead of art, music, PE, mentorship, school nurses or interventions. And abuse in our juvenile facilities is rampant. Most women on this board are unaware until a loved one is impacted. But our popular governor focuses on school library books. Most of the kids who end up killing someone could have been saved.
Anonymous
Are you sure it stayed in the car? Sounds a little like Aec Baldwin’s “I didn’t pull the trigger”. Also excellent article in the NYT last week about the 5th amendment and not speaking to the police at all without a lawyer present.
Anon
I know knives in parked vehicles have triggered the threat of expulsion and criminal charges before, so it doesn’t seem that wild to me.
Anon
It’s school property, if he parked in the school lot.
OP
Correct. I do believe it was in the car because they search the car after seeing a beer can.
Anon
So he had a gun and beer cans? There’s a lot of red flags. I hope he’s getting therapy in addition to an attorney.
Anonymous
Beer can?! Good job leaving out key info and trickle-truthing.
Anon
Oh, you forgot to mention that HUGE fact.
Cat
sounds like he needs a lawyer, and also, if the pellet gun was just forgotten in his car, how tf did the school find out it was there?
Anon
I don’t know in this specific case, but I can imagine a scenario where he left it lying on the back seat and someone saw it and thought it was a real gun so reported it to the school. It’s clearly a really serious situation, and he needs a good lawyer, but I can think of several scenarios that are not him purposely taking it inside and threatening someone with it.
pugsnbourbon
When I was in high school they’d do random lockdowns and bring in drug dogs to search the school and parking lot. A kid accidentally left his rifle in the back of his truck (hunting season, rural area) and it was found that way, but he wasn’t expelled and he definitely didn’t face criminal charges.
anon
Similar story when I was in high school. We were in a semirural area and plenty of kids kept their hunting rifles in their trucks during deer season. They’d get found when random sweeps were conducted. Nowadays, it would not be seen as a benign act and likely those kids would be expelled from my kid’s school, regardless of why they had a gun in their car.
Seventh Sister
There was a lot of variability in this kind of thing in my public school system. Some kids got suspended or expelled for this kind of thing (it wasn’t that rural but it was rural-ish) and others (the well-off or connected ones) got a stern warning. Rinse, lather, repeat for all kinds of other disciplinary issues, from threats to assaults.
OP
This is also semi-rural.
Anonymous
Girl please he brought a gun to school get real. Hire a criminal lawyer and also stop pretending like this isn’t a big deal. Come on.
Anon
Thank you.
It doesn’t matter if he’s a nice kid. He messed up.
Anon
+1,000,000. Another kid could easily have gotten seriously injured.
Anon
This.
Anon
+1 to this – glad your nephew and his classmates are ok.
I’m actually curious about your nephew’s race/what he presents as – I’ve seen treatment vary for White kids vs. other kids in these situations.
Anon
A pellet gun can take someone’s eye out. It’s not safe for school.
Anon
A kid was killed by one where I live recently!
I still think criminal charges is dramatically out of proportion unless part of this story is missing.
OP
It would be great if you could collapse subthreads…
Anon
I don’t know about weapons at school, but I do have experience with my kid’s high school trying to expel him for damaging school property. He had an IEP in place so there were some additional protections for him. Your nephew needs a criminal lawyer who has experience with expulsion/school discipline. We found one, paid her $500/hour, and she was worth every penny.
OP
Thanks! We were running through the bar list in education, but pivoted to criminal when they mentioned charges. It is helpful to know that it helped you.
Trish
Stephanie Langer. Education and criminal. https://langerlawpa.com/about/
Anonymous
Yeah I know you’re willing to excuse this because it’s your great college bound nephew but come on this is a problem, and in my state these rules have been around for decades. Actions have consequences as much as upper middle class white parents and aunts – I’m assuming – never what them to.
OP
He is not upper middle class, if that helps.
Trish
And, the white middle class parents often actively support toughoncrime throwthekeyaway policies until it happens to their kid. I represent children charges with adult crimes and the parents of white middle class parents are always really mad about the cost of calling their kid and canteen and the draconian penalties. Well, we have hundreds of kids serving LWOP parole in Florida.
Anon
Yeah it’s really sad that Steven Washington Jr. died in prison / he was only 15 when he committed the crimes for which he was convicted.
Anon
I, for one, am glad the school doesn’t take a collaborative approach to students bringing guns to school.
Trish
Florida is the worst state in terms of throwing children away without a key. One if the few states to still allow LWOP parole for children.
Anon
18 states allow it, in the event that the crime in question is homicide.
Trish
We are inching toward reform, one state at a time. Florida was really bad prior to Graham
Anonymous
How did anyone know that he had a gun in his car in the parking lot unless it was visible or he was referencing it? His story sounds pretty shady.
In Florida in particular post Parkland it should be obvious that you don’t wait to expel or charge until after they have started bringing the gun into school or brandishing it!
His pellet gun belongs unloaded in a locked cabinet at home.
Anon
Apparently he had beer too, and that is how they found out about the gun.
Senior Attorney
Only that he (and his parents, and you, and everybody involved) needs to keep their mouths shut tight and he needs to lawyer up ASAP.
Seventh Sister
I tell my kids this all the time – if you are questioned by the police or the principal at school, ask them to call me or spouse and do not say a word after that request.
Senior Attorney
I used to sing a song to my kid: “Hush, little baby, don’t say a word… especially not to the cops!”
Seventh Sister
I should have done that – my youngest got questioned by a police officer @5 because “stop punching K and use your words” had unintended consequences since I didn’t follow that up with “don’t make a specific, detailed threat about a weapon we do not actually own, kiddo.”
Anon
Omg!! I have a very feisty 5 year old who sometimes makes up tall tales and I can totally see her saying something that would lead to her getting questioned by the police.
Anonymous
We live in FL. When a cop pulled my HS son (under age 18 at the time) out of class to ask him questions about an altercation with another student, he says he asked to call his parents. (I’ve drilled that into him hard, thanks to this board.) The cop’s response, according to my kid later, was that it goes on his permanent record if they call his parents, but it doesn’t if they don’t. IANAL and decided not follow up with the school. TL;DR: shut up and lawyer up in FL.
Seventh Sister
LOL, the invocation of the “permanent record.” As a 90s kid, this was always the threat.
roxie
wow i thought guns were welcome in schools in FL.
Have him appeal directly to desantis, I’m sure he’ll send him a medal.
Anon
Lol DeSantis probably would send him a medal.
Lily
Unless he’s Black.
Anon
That’s very true. Or gay. Then he would be a potential shooter because of “mental health issues.”
OP
I actually had this thought which is so sad.
Anonymous
Kids regularly bring guns to this school? And you’re surprised they’re expelled?
Anonymous
I for one am glad the school is taking it seriously. He brought a weapon on to school property. What else did he expect would happen!? It’s about time “good college-bound kid with good grades” stopped being a get-away-with-anything badge.
Trish
If you think we need to be tougher on juvenile and young adult crimes, then please get involved and mentor some young teens.
Trish
Florida is the worst state in the country as far as the school-to-prison-pipeline. Have you been ignoring what this country does to children until it happened to someone you love? If so, the time to start paying attention to our children, as young as 13, serving life without parole in adult prisons. That said, Stephanie Langer THE go to lawyer in Florida. If she cannot help, she can refer you to someone in your nephews jurisdiction. https://langerlawpa.com/about/
OP
Thank you! I grew up there (and moved away) and I know how poorly the system works for kids.
Anon
The school to prison pipeline is about pushing out and criminalizing primarily children of color and with disabilities for behavioral, social-emotional, or conduct issues. A “great college bound kid in clubs and sports” bringing a gun to school doesn’t seem comparable.
Anonymous
Exactly. These kids have families with money to lawyer up and end up with a slap on the wrist, even when it’s serious like bringing a weapon to school.
Trish
I represent children in adult court and lecture on the school-to-prison-pipeline. Are you actually suggesting the child does not need a lawyer? The fact that marginalized children are disproportionately harmed by the system does not mean this child and his family should not take this seriously. By the way, I may have missed it, but did she say he is white? She asked for advice, and I gave it.
Anon
OFC he needs a lawyer. I’m a GAL. It’s great you rep these kids. Everyone deserves representation. That doesn’t change the fact the type of student she’s describing isn’t one typically harmed by the school to prison pipeline.
Anon
I’m really disturbed an education attorney thinks this a white kid bringing a gun and beer to school is representative of the school to prison pipeline. I see a lot of court involved kids of color…their crime? Truancy, and the reason they can’t make it to school is Mom was out partying on drugs, Dad is out of the picture, and the kiddo is getting their younger siblings up, feeding them, and taking on adult roles. Or kiddo doesn’t have clean clothes to wear. Or she lacks menstrual products and has to stay home. These are the kids hurt by discipline matters being referred to the Court.
Trish
Who is the education attorney? The zero tolerance policy hurts all children, mostly poor and children of color. Did OP say this kid is white?
Anon
Someone asked if he’s white upper middle class. The OP said he isn’t upper middle class. White is implied.
Anon
Yeah, no. The real issue of the school to prison pipeline isn’t a reason to go soft on teenagers who bring guns on campus.
Anon
+1
anon
Trish, thanks to your comments on this thread I DID start paying attention to these kids serving life sentences and did some research. I learned that all of them are murderers. I think prison sounds like the perfect place for them.
Trish
Then you are part of the problem. Children can be rehabilitated and most are. We need a hybrid program for children who commit serious crimes that involves incapacitation and rehabilitation.
Anon
Not everyone can be rehabilitated. Some people are just really screwed up and belong in prison for the rest of their lives.
And you know what? One of the reasons I support capital punishment is because of people like you, who think LWOP is wrong. “Don’t kill them – you can lock them away forever.” Five seconds later: “That serial r-pist/murderer was only 17 when he attacked multiple women and buried one alive so he shouldn’t be in prison until he dies.”
Trish
The research tells us that most children can be rehabilitated. What are you doing to help the at risk kids in your city?
Trish
https://www.google.com/search?q=equal+justice+initiative+children+in+prison&oq=equal+justice+initiative+children+in+prison&aqs=chrome..69i57.12520j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Anon
Thank you all for your perspectives yesterday on the potential changes I mentioned to my role, my boss/her style of giving feedback, my work experience the last few years, etc. It really made me think (a lot of “Yes, and…” thoughts).
I do think in the longer term, my best bet will be to start looking for a new role given everything going on with my current one. It was helpful to hear that the changes my boss intimated could just be a simple shift, maybe even for the better for me, while I figure out what is next in my career. My immediate focus will be doing my work and keeping an open mind to hear what these changes will be.
Again, thank you all for reading and commenting!
Anon
Maybe you explained this thinking yesterday in the comments, but I think you should swap your timeline around. This boss makes you feel so bad that you say it affects your confidence and that you’re coming home and being crabby with your family. I think you start applying for jobs now (not “long-term”) and stay only if the change your boss mentioned is good enough to overcome the downsides that are weighing so heavily on you. We spend most of our waking hours at work, don’t spend it somewhere miserable.
OP
Good point – “Long Term” means within this year – I’m currently at a director-level position and looking for something at or above that but not a VP – so I don’t know how long that will take.
Anonymous
Agree 1000%. I might have missed more of the comments, but I don’t think I would trust that the change will be better. It’s not a “yes…and” thing of reframing into positivity or not. If your boss is not actively including you in discussions of where they see you going, it’s been my experience that it isn’t likely to be better. You also don’t have enough of a positive experience where you are to justify feeling so miserable that it’s bleeding into your personal life like that whether in the same position or something else. I’d get out before the economy makes it harder or you’re potentially moved into a role that makes it harder.
I saw my old boss take several people who came in at high positions and change their job titles into very company-specific terms that didn’t mean as much in the industry at large. He also was great at taking people from roles that were broad and putting them into very niche technical areas that were far less marketable. Be wary of this. It’s easy to fall into the trap of letting this happen when you’re afraid of looking elsewhere. Whatever your boss does with you, make sure it works best for what YOU want and need. Don’t just stay out of comfort or the feeling like there is some moral failing in admitting you’re not happy.
anon
Ugh, the winter doldrums are hitting hard. Last night I was under a puffy duvet, wearing pajamas with socks and a hoodie on top, and it still took me forever to warm up and actually fall asleep. This seems to happen every time I leave the house after dark in the winter. I get chilled and can’t warm up. Why didn’t I plan a February vacation for myself?? But in all seriousness, I need some ideas for making the most of these dark, cold days.
Anon
I find an electric blanket in bed helps.
Anon8
I have put one of those microwavable rice bags at the foot of the bed every night. And go to Miami every February :)
Anonymous
An electric heating pad works as well. We have one that is dual zone because I am always cold and my husband is hot.
Anon
This is going to sound like a weird plug. My husband bought me an oodie out of no where. I was originally really annoyed with him about it. Thought it was a dumb use of money. Until I gave it a try. It really makes Minnesota winter nights more bearable. I’m right there with you about planning a February vacation next year.
Anonymous
Hot shower before bed helps a lot for me — I feel both warm and sleepy so it’s easier to drift off.
Cb
Yep, steamy hot shower, straight under the covers once dry.
Anon
Yes I was going to suggest a shower as well. That’s the only way to get rid of the bone-deep chill. A bath is even better.
dear reader
+electric blanket. I don’t actually like to be under one for very long, but putting one in bed to heat it up before I get in is very nice.
For general making the most out of these winter days, I just stocked up on allllll the facial masks and am doing two a week. Helped bring some novelty and my skin appreciates the attention.
Sarah
I’m also in the “why didn’t I plan a warm vacation??” camp. Am contemplating going to a Korean spa to feel warm for at least a few hours. More practically, mid-day walks in the sun (even if its cold) tend to help my brain chemistry.
Lila Fowler
Bedjet. I got one on black friday and am obsessed with mine. Toasty warm!
Anonymous
Fashion help please! What style shoes are you all wearing with midi length/knee length skirts and dresses these days to work in a business casual office that are not heels, boots, or wedges? Prefer closed toed if possible. Thank you!!
Anon
Loafers, oxfords, low top sneakers?
PolyD
Fancy oxfords! Like from The Office of Angela Scott, if you have the $$.
anon
…heels or boots. I like sock booties at the moment.
Anon
I mean you just eliminated most all footwear save for sneakers or flats. I’m not going to tell you that loafers or flats will look good with that. Flats are too cold, loafers too fug. Your best bet is then a sneaker but probably also hard to style in winter. Wear the boots girl.
Anonymous
Understood- heels do look bets with these items. I’m already 6’1 and have some foot issues that make heels a no go to wear. Also, I would prefer to not get taller than I already am and prefer to wear skirts and dresses over pants. Most boot recommendations these days are heeled, hence why I eliminated that option. Sneakers are too casual for my office, so was hoping to find specific brands and styles that other tall girls wear that make you look semi put together.
Curious
Bare Traps might have zero rise boots? My Thursdays also have a very low heel. I think you have more boot options than you think.
Anon
Loafers or nice sneakers. I also wear some ballet flats.
Anon
I’ve been wearing heeled boots (of varying heights: ankle and tall) so I am no help.
Anonymous
I don’t know what you wear if you eliminate boots. I do not like loafers with dresses of any length, or with tights. There are some dress flats that could work. Or sneakers or lace-up oxfords, if they suit your style.
Cat
I wouldn’t wear a midi skirt with flats, which is essentially all you have left. And tbh I’m not really wearing skirts or dresses this winter. It’s a pants mood.
Anonymous
Cole Haan skimmers are pointy toe flats, they to my eye look better with skirts than do loafers.
NYNY
What would you call your overall style? Because that will influence the answers quite a bit. I have midi skirts and dresses that I like with lug-sole oxfords, but if your style leans preppy or more feminine, then those aren’t going to work for you.
Anon
Not helpful for you, but I wear Chelsea ankle boots or knee high boots (it’s cold). I don’t really wear other shoes to work in the winter.
Anonymous
Is there anything I can say or do in this situation? My FIL’s wife (second wife, married after my husband and siblings were grown) is increasingly difficult to be around and I’m afraid my filter will break and I’ll say something rude. All she can talk about is her two children and her bio grandchildren. It’s bragging, like what expensive new car one kid bought, her grandkids’ ACT scores, etc. I have never met these people and I can only stand so much of her bragging. It’s boring and repetitive. I wish these strangers well, but when she’s ignoring my own kids right in front of her and talking about all the time she spends and fun things she does with her bio grandchildren, then I even become irritated.
This has been going on for 20 plus years, so I know she won’t change. I also recognize she says all this stuff due to insecurity (why, I don’t know. We’re just normal people.).
We’re visiting them for spring break and I’d love to learn some new tactics. Besides excusing myself, trying to redirect the conversation to her and FIL or my kids, what else can I do to retain my calm? Is there any way I can politely tell her I don’t want to hear nonstop chatter about her kids and grandkids? I wish I could push a button and never hear another word about them.
dear reader
This might not work, but can you try to do more activities with her, rather than just talking? Like going for a walk at a state park, bringing a 500 piece puzzle to do all together, etc? doing activities with my in-laws rather than just relaxing and chit chatting will help move us to more interesting topics.
pugsnbourbon
This seems like the mature way to deal with it. My first (immature) instinct was to make up some sort of game (sneeze every time she mentions Child 1; tie your shoes every time she mentions Child 2). Do what Dear Reader suggests instead :)
Senior Attorney
Haha I was going to suggest Bio Grandchildren Bingo. Obviously doing activities with her is much better.
Anonymous
This is the answer. My mother is like your FIL’s wife. She’s insufferable to be around and talks and talks and talks *at* you. She just never learned how to socialize I guess? I don’t know. i’ve left the room, done a task, come back and she’s still talking at the same person, whose eyes have long glazed over.
BUT! If we do something together, it changes the game entirely. Plan an outing, go for a walk, ask for help with a task (or ask if she needs help with a task). Control the conversation- ask her proactively about herself, her family. It seems sort of rude that she’s a family member of yours and you don’t know anything about her family?
Anonymous
Oh we know all about her family, including various medical conditions. That’s the thing. I don’t want to know all these personal details about them! Let’s keep things high level!
Anon
I would find lots of ways to occupy yourself that don’t involve talking to her. Or literally just find a reason to walk away.
Anonymous
Nope. What you can control is your actions not hers. Get a hotel room visit for shorter periods make lots of plans etc.
anon
Make your own Bingo card. Add spaces for each annoying habit, lol. And definitely take lots of breaks. This would deeply annoy me, too, especially if she’s ignoring your kids. Twenty years in, it’s kind of sad that she would do that. It’s also very possible that she has no idea what to talk about.
Can you redirect the conversation back to your own kids? Or just … not give her much feedback beyond, “Oh, so great that Johnny is doing so well.”
If she’s able, occupying her and the kids with other activities is a good suggestion.
dear reader
Huge fan of bingo card strategies paired with actual rewards for hitting a certain number of boxes. Not big things, but fun things like a candy bar or face masks or flowers.
anon
Different perspective – If this has been going on for twenty years, is there a reason why you haven’t met her children? My guess is that fact has A LOT to do with her insecurity – like she is talking them up so that you meet them. Also, is she talking about the fun things she did with them because she would like your husband to invite her to do those things with his kids.
Anonymous
That’s a very kind thought, but I don’t think so. When she travels to our area, she stays with one of her kids and usually doesn’t make any effort to contact us.
For example, she was visiting for a few weeks over Christmas and New Years and contacted me 2 days before she left to arrange a way to give us my kids’ Christmas cards and one kid’s birthday card (about 2 weeks after Christmas and the birthday). She didn’t want to come over, even though we live literally 3 miles from where she was staying, to visit us/see the kids. We were working so were limited on when we could drive over ourselves and those times didn’t work for her plans. She said she’d mail them after she returned home. Nothing so far. All the while I heard about the 10+ games she attended for her other grandkids.
Sybil
Yeah, it sounds annoying but seems much weirder than you’ve never met your stepsiblings after 20 years, so I wonder if something else is going on?
Cb
I’ve never met my husband’s stepsiblings and it is really weird but also… meh. They didn’t grow up together, his mum’s partner moved in when he was a teen, and she had older kids.
Anon
I agree. I also wonder if she’s not trying to brag but just trying to make conversation. I get why her talking about test scores makes you feel weird but I’d try to assume good intentions – you know the situation better than I do of course but maybe she’s awkward and just trying to make conversation.
Anonymous
OP here again. One theory from my husband’s sibling is that they’ve never told her bio grandchildren that my FIL isn’t their bio grandfather. If they meet, the jig is up! lol
Anonymous Canadian
I was going to hop in and say that it’s pretty clear that from her perspective, she married your FIL, not his adult children, and has minimal interest in having a real relationship (which takes two-way commitment) with them or their families. It’s also clear that FIL is either okay with that or prepared to put up with it. I guess it’s good that she remembers your children’s names and birthdays (I am here to tell you from personal experience that doesn’t aways happen). Your husband had a mom and maybe the fact that FIL is happy with this woman has just got to be enough for you folks. I second the advice to just step back and be as neutral and grey-rock with her as possible. You’ll never MAKE her care more about your family than she actually does. Sad, since she’s probably missing out, but that’s her loss.
HOWEVER, this theory is WILD! The world is full of crazy stories for sure.
Anon
I assume this isn’t said in the “Oh, my grands are interested in the same things your kids are!” way. Any hope of a well-placed private remark to FIL making a difference?
Anon
I trust your judgement that her constant chatter about people you haven’t met is bragging. But this scenario does remind me, prior to my grandmother having full blown dementia, anytime I talked to her, she would talk non-stop about my cousins. Example: your cousin is also taking the ACT and got XY score. In my head = that would make sense, we’re 6 months apart in age and her parents paid for private ACT tutoring, so her score is probably higher than mine. Looking back I realize it was just her way of trying to relate.
It sounds a really petty now, but I use to make a game of it and ask her so many details about the topic until it made her want to change to something else. My son bought a new car it’s a VW. Or really? “What make is it, what color, what trim package, does it have heated seats, does it have a sun roof, has he come here to show it to you, etc.”
anonchicago
My ILs and my mom do this and I find it exhausting. There’s a certain level of bragging involved for them, and wanting to compare us or show how I need to be doing better at something.
Besides redirecting or just leaving the room, I sometimes just grey rock them. As in, have a totally neutral response that doesn’t encourage conversation like “that’s nice, good for him, I’m glad he’s doing well.” Eventually she will run out of steam and move to something else.
Anonymous
This. Grey rock all the way.
dear reader
I took a personal/take work meetings from home day because I just can’t people today after getting the worst news yesterday (grandpa, who was golfing 2-3 days a week four months ago, has end stage mesothelioma) yes he’s almost 90 but it feels so out of nowhere….my heart and head just hurt today.
So I’m shopping as a distraction. I need new summer Birkenstocks – I get a new pair every few years and then wear them to pieces. I did the classic Arizona black ones the last few years and want something different this time. I’m trying to decide between these – thoughts? Fully expecting some of you to hate them all. :D
A – Papillo Arizona Platform Leather All Black
https://www.birkenstock.com/us/arizona-natural-leather-black/4011526681549.html
B – Papillo Arizona Chunky Leather All Black
https://www.birkenstock.com/us/arizona-chunky-natural-leather-black/4061418385666.html
C – Arizona Chunky Suede Leather Purple Fog
https://www.birkenstock.com/us/arizona-suede-leather-purple-fog/4061417996221.html
D – Arizona Big Buckle Oiled Leather Olive Green
https://www.birkenstock.com/us/arizona-oiled-leather-olive-green/4061418178909.html
Anonymous
I love the look of the big buckle and would go with that pair. Very sorry about your news.
pugsnbourbon
I’m so sorry about your grandfather! I’m glad you took the day to be at home.
My vote is D – the olive is going to be really versatile. I like the lilac, too, but feel like it’ll get grody really fast.
anon
True about the lilac, but I am such a lilac lover. But after clicking on that Olive link, I’m thinking that I need that Festival Fuschia color. Gorgeous.
Anon
Ooh, the FF color is calling to me.
dear reader
The January/February version of myself always buys the fuchsia things, so I definitely hear you there! The other 10 months of the year I’m more neutrals :)
Vicky Austin
Another vote for D and also sending you hugs and good thoughts.
anon
That Purple Fog color is calling me. If you have a lot of cool tones in your summer wardrobe, these would be great!
Olive Green is a nice shade if you wear warmer colors.
Black is always a classic and will go with everything, but also less fun.
I’m sorry to hear about your grandpa. It is so, so hard when you can see your grandparent is slipping away. :(
dear reader
Good point about my clothes – I’m a cooler color person.
Thank you very much for your kind words.
Anon
I’m sorry about your grandfather. B or C – I like the chunky sole.
dear reader
Thank you.
Me too….I am very into all the chunky soles on everything right now. Very happy to have flare jeans and tall shoes trendy.
Anon
Lilac.
Anon
Treat yourself to a practical colour and a fun colour.
I’m sorry about your grandpa.
dear reader
Lol you’re my favorite kind of shopping friend.
Thank you.
Anon
Not on your list, but my most favorite ever are the Madrid big buckle slides. They actually look cute while serving all the comfy purposes.
anon
I love the look of these. Does anyone have any experience with how well they stay on your feet?
Anon
I recommended them and they totally stay on. As well as the double strap and way less hot to wear.
dear reader
Ooh very good to know. I’ve always thought they looked like they might fall off but will check them out.
Anon
They are the only shoe I’ve purchased over and over because I love them. And my style is so not Birkenstock overall! They go on every trip I take in warmer months, and get worn to death.
Pep
One comment about the Big Buckle styles (and other styles that have a leather footbed instead of the classic suede footbed) – be prepared for “suction noise” walking in these. I bought a pair of Big Buckle Gizehs last year that I’m just too embarrassed to wear.
dear reader
Oh interesting. I was wondering about the leather footbed. I like the monochromatic color but not sure if a leather footbed would feel right.
Senior Attorney
Big hugs to you!
I like the idea of purple but the lilac isn’t purple enough for me. So I’m olive green all the way (in fact I am tempted to order that one myself!).
dear reader
The olive green has great lasting power I think. If I wasn’t being wooed by the platform/chunky sole trend so much it would be those hands down.
Although two pairs ago I basically had that same lilac color in the gizeh style – both a positive in that I know I like it, and a negative that it’s similar to what I’ve already had.
Anonymous
Not on your list, but have you considered white? I feel like it goes with EVERYTHING. It feels more summer. Otherwise, I’d go with the olive.
Anon
Sorry about grandpa.
I bought the big buckle Siena in a medium blue last year and wore them every day. I vote for the big buckle styles. They’re super cute.
Annony
Very sorry to hear about your grandpa. I love my black Gizehs … so comfortable. I have a pair of knockoff PVC Arizonas in bright orange from Amazon that I get compliments on all the time. I bought the big buckle slides in a light gray last year and I love the look but they aren’t very comfortable to walk in
quince experience
I need to buy a couple basics and am intrigued by Quince. Any favorite items from there you’ve loved? Considering placing an order. I know I see it mentioned on here semi-regularly!
Anon
my mom loves the ponte pants
Anon
Their button down washable silk blouse is the only thing I like from there. Literally have ordered and returned almost everything else. I also hate their copycat marketing. No, no, you’re not Jenni Kayne at a better price point. Your quality is terrible. Except for those shirts, which are okay.
nuqotw
I have one of the their stretch silk tees and I love it. I think about buying more but then I remember (1) I am out of closet space and (2) the window for wearing it at work is very short because my office is freezing cold most of the year.
Anon
I bought my daughter the organic cotton fisherman sweater and she wears it all the time, even to work.
I have the organic cotton sweatpants and I’m meh on them – they tend to bag in the knees. Otherwise good because I’m short and the legs aren’t too long.
Jules
I have one of the washable silk shirts, the short-sleve, camp-shirt style, It’s a bit boxy – although I am busty so things that fit there are usually more baggy in the torso – but very nice quality. And I got my SO a cashmere hzlf-zip three Christmases ago and it still looks great.
Londoner
I love the cashmere sweaters and cotton fisherman sweaters. Good quality for the price point. And the athletic leggings stay up — ditching Lululemon to go tthis route
anon
I know it’s been discussed before, but if/when/how to go gray. I’m 42 and have now been considering it for a full year. Longer if you count the months of roots I had in 2020. I should just try it and see, right?
Pros:
I’m tired of coloring, only to have roots in 2-3 weeks. I’d estimate I’m 40% gray at this point, though haven’t confirmed with my stylist.
My summer coloring (light skin, blue eyes, pinkish cheeks) might look good with gray.
Maybe it’s best to stop dyeing when I still have a youngish-looking face?
Cons:
What if it just looks bad?
What if I look older than I actually am?
Anon
When you’ve decided to give up. This isn’t a trend I recommend embracing.
Anon
Give up? Not even slightly. I am at the top of my game professionally, and I don’t think my gray hair impedes me at all. I think it must look intentional, so it can be helpful to work with a colorist to make the transition less painful. Also, a good cut and styling are important.
Seafinch
Agreed. I stopped colouring at 40 and have silver streaks at my temples with increasing silver throughout. I am frequently told it’s stunning. I also have a Celtic complexion; pale skin, some minor freckling, dark brown hair, light hazel eyes. I have a sharp haircut that is well maintained and always styled (chin length short bob that is swept back which is fairly unusual). I also dress fairly formally and have an intentional style. My stylist is a bit of small Canadian city stylist to the stars, and typically specializes in big blow outs and she always comments how much she loves my hair.
To transition, I just cut it slightly shorter than normal and white knuckled it but it looked pretty good and was over quickly.
Explorette
Yes! I GIVE UP on:
-Spending 3 hours every 6 weeks being unproductive sitting in a chair
-Paying hundreds of dollars to have my hair damaged by color treatments
-Paying hundreds of dollars in products to try to minimize said damage
I LEAN INTO:
-Having natural healthy hair
-Not being ashamed of my age
-Being who I am
Anonymous
I don’t agree with Anon but if your color is taking longer than an hour and damaging your hair then that’s a bad salon issue, not a hair dye issue.
Anonymous
Seriously. I’ve joined a couple of the going gray groups on Facebook and Instagram and it’s striking when they do before and afters how youthful and vital they look once gray. It turns out their dyed hair color really didn’t flatter their skin.
Seafinch
Definitely the case with me. I see pictures of my hair before I made the switch and I look haggard. I also belong to these groups.
Anon
Is adding color that damaging? I’ve never dyed my hair (I’m 38 and don’t yet have visible gray) but I always thought it was bleaching/highlighting that damages your hair, not going a shade darker like you do to cover gray.
Monday
Rude.
Anon
Yep, I’ve never seen this look attractive at a young age. Fine if you want to compromise on that, of course, but I’d save it for my 70s and beyond.
Anon
Yeah I think age is a big factor here – I think short-ish gray hair can look super chic on women in their 60s and 70s. But at 42 I think it would really age you.
Anon
I think gray would look lovely with your coloring. My old boss has the same coloring, is fully gray (at 60), and is so beautiful.
Cb
I don’t think it has to be permanent. You could go grey (I’d chop your hair so it’s not 3 inches of grey, 10 inches of dark) and change it back if you hate it.
Senior Attorney
That’s what I did. I went gray in my 40s for a few years and went back to blonde a few years later. Haven’t looked back so far.
anon
I’ve embraced my graying hair, as have many professional women around 40 in my area. I was tired of coloring it–I was highlighting, and it just needed more and more each time. I also have light skin, blue eyes, pink cheeks, and my natural hair color is light brown with blond and now gray streaks. I get a lot more compliments on my hair now than I did when I was highlighting it.
If it just looks bad, you can go back to coloring it.
Anon
How did you grow out the highlights?
Anon
In the immortal words of my grandmother, “Try it! You might like it!” (Often said to young children facing a plate of unknown foods ;))
My realtor went gray during COVID and I confess I think it’s so much chicer on her than her former auburn dye job. She wears it in a blunt lob and it’s just so fashion-forward! I have a few friends, too, who are gray and it looks great.
Anon
Yes, I think the commenters who think gray is ugly are overestimating the attractiveness of artificially colored hair, especially if it’s a “normal” age to be graying. When I was 42 I had very few gray hairs, but by 50 I had a lot more and I don’t feel like starting to color now.
Monday
There’s also the cumulative damage of dyeing it. If you dye your hair indefinitely, it may end up looking fried.
Obviously we’d all just keep the hair of our childhood if that was an option, but it isn’t!
Anon
I don’t think grey is ugly, but I’ve been dyeing my hair since my mid-20s and, over 15 years later, still get a lot of compliments on it. “Your hair is so beautiful.”
I think the real issue is that vibrant colour looks best, usually, and that can include silver.
dear reader
I do like a very intentional grey/white hair color but like it to look intentional. After watching my mom and grandmas hair grow out and their transition to grey/white, I have a tentative plan. When I get to about 50% grey, my plan is to start going really light blond for my color so it all blends more naturally as it grows out. Lots of purple shampoo toning.
So I personally wouldn’t stop the hair salon appts, but I would switch to a lighter color so you can get more time out of each color job.
All that said I haven’t done it myself yet, so you’ll probably get some much more informed answers! :)
Anokha
You can always change your mind if you hate it, and go back to dying!
Anokha
Ugh, dyeing. Not dying.
pugsnbourbon
I knew what you meant but it sounds like what a salesy necromancer might say. “Try being alive again for this limited-time offer! If you hate it it’s fully reversible and you can go back to being dead.”
Lutheran wool socks
special offer 😀
brokentoe
I’m 62 and decided to stop coloring just before Covid struck. Rather than an obvious grow-out, I cut my hair into a short pixie I intended to grow out but I have kept and have come to love. I get more compliments now with about 80% white and 20% dark brown in the back than I ever did when I colored my hair. For me (fair skin with pink undertones, green eyes), the key is strong lip color and a very edgy haircut so it looks intentional. There are a ton of supportive FB groups for women – many younger than you – going through or considering ditching the dye – check them out!
Anom
I think this advice (lip color and edgy haircut) is key. The point is to ensure you’re giving off a vibe that you take care of your appearance and the gray doesn’t reflect laziness or lack of caring. You’ll be forced to spend similar amounts of money? But maybe it will feel like it’s better spent?
Monday
The edgy haircut and lip color are at least fun and allow some creativity. I realized that there was nothing fun or expressive about dyeing over my white hairs, which is one reason I stopped.
anon
If you try it and don’t like it you can always go back to colour. I am also a pale summer with blue eyes. I think my natural hair colour looks far better on me than the ‘matching’ my stylist used to try. I’m really happy I went grey and will not go back. I am also about 40% grey.
I used the dye strip technique to go grey. I have shoulder length straight hair and used to do a side part. It was very easy under those circumstances to use that technique. You continue getting dye applied in a strip around the part of your hair. I did it for 8 months but it would take longer for some people. They greys grow in underneath but you do not have the skunk stripe that makes greying really obvious. After 8-12 months you flip your hair part to the other side and voila! Nice fully grown in grey hair.
Any time I see another woman in her 40s with grey hair (if nicely cut and styled) I always admire it: it’s pink rock for the middle aged : )
Anonymous
I’m 42. Planning to stop colouring in my late fifties/early 60s. Enough friends have their natural hair colour at this point or dye their hair that I feel being one of the few who are grey will age me. I have at least two close friends who I know for sure don’t dye and don’t have visible grey. The only friends who have grey and don’t dye, have light hair so it’s not evident that it’s grey vs highlights.
Anonymous
I tried it in the beginning of Covid. I thought I was more of a granola person than I am, evidently. I didn’t like it. A year into it I had a major confidence killer and went back. (Issue was unrelated to my looks— was diagnosed with cancer.). I now embrace coloring it—I make the next appointment when I leave the current one, I do it every 5 weeks, on weeknights, single process only to save time and money. I use colored hair powder in my part the last week between colorings.
All that said, no harm in trying. I’d recommend you talk to your stylist about doing it more intentionally, maybe lightening all of it over time, or highlights over time, rather than just growing it out.
Anonymous
For some people, dying your hair can also look very aging. I have very dark brown hair and it was difficult to keep up with the roots plus I felt my hair was getting too dark or flat.
I made a plan with my stylist where he used a product that broke up or lifted some of the dye, and we put in some blonde streaks. I kept my regular style (almost shoulder length) but was very conscientious about getting it cut.
Now my hair is 50-60% gray, and I love it. I’m so happy to avoid the expense, time, and chemical bath of dying it. I do think it is essential to have a good style, and keep up with cuts and taking care of your hair. Gray hair can have a “given up” vibe only if you give up!
Former Parisian
Go for it! I’m 39, embraced going gray during COVID. I was hoping that gray hair would give me more gravitas (junior partner at a law firm), but so far most people seem to think it’s highlights! Light brown hair in a long bob, about 20% gray. My hair is a lot healthier and shinier now than before (used to do blonde balayage).
Monday
I’m 41 and stopped dyeing my hair at 38 I believe. It was kind of anti-climactic because I found that I didn’t have all that many whites, BUT freedom from the dye routine is amazing, and it’s also nice not to worry about a future transition when I will have more whites. It will just happen day by day! And of course, as everyone has said, there’s no reason you can’t dye again in the future if you want.
If you do go natural, consider adding more moisture to your hair care. Whites/grays can be coarser, but the texture difference doesn’t show as much when they’re dyed over. So sometimes women think “I hate my grays, they stick out” etc as they’re growing out, when really this hair just needs moisture.
Anon
Not OP, but tell me more because this is the problem with the few white hairs I have is they’re a totally different texture. I am hair care product inept. Like need very specific product name recommendations on what to use.
Anon
Moisture has never made my gray hairs have the same texture as the rest of my hair, that’s a myth. They really are a different texture.
Anon
Same. Mine are so wiry and tightly curled. The rest of my hair is soft and wavy.
Trixie
I have your coloring, and my now gray hair (gray, almost black, white, silver) is so much more flattering than my medium brown with highlights colored hair. I get so many compliments on it! It is a tough transition. I went shorter, wore more lipstick and more dramatic earrings, and toughed it out. I now love my hair. Go for it!
Anom
You probably will look older bc most women of your race/ethnicity and income bracket are dyeing their hair. But maybe that’s ok.
Anon
Go blonde first. It’s easier to grow out if you decide to go gray.
Do you follow Sali Hughes? She went gray about a year ago. It’s all on her Instagram.
Anonymous
I think the only time it looks good is when the person also has some highlights and or a gloss treatment and keeps their hair otherwise very polished. It’s not a maintenance free thing. Frankly, I’ve just accepted that hair can’t be maintenance free ever and it takes more, not less, maintenance as we age.
Cb
Housemate with Covid update – I stayed in a really crap hotel on Monday night, then I booked myself into a room in an airbnb the rest of the week. The owner is in and out this week, but popped in this am and she has a giant lab mix named Dougal who has absolutely made my day. My housemate is really poorly, poor thing.
Also, I was on an interview panel yesterday and one of the candidates had a velvet scrunchy on her wrist she kept playing with. It’s academia and a panel of men + me, so no one would judge/penalise her for it but it made me laugh.
Curious
I am amused with you and glad the dog is making life better. Hugs if you want them!
Anecdata
I’m from Oregon, suburb just south of Portland!
The nature is absolutely beautiful, you are basically an hour from a mountain with great summer hiking and skiing, an hour from the coast, the Columbia gorge is right there – completely love it.
Vibes-wise — will probably feel familiar if you lived in west coast Canadian cities. Worth knowing ahead of time that Portland has lower diversity than many large US cities, and an active white supremacist movement.
Portland downtown has also been hard hit by the pandemic, rapidly rising rents causing a crisis of homelessness, still figuring out what effective drug policy looks like, not great relationships between the city and the police, spike in gun violence… it feels very much in transition, and hard to tell what’s going to happen. But for right now (and ymmv), there are a lot of parts of Portland I don’t feel comfortable in, alone or at night or even during the day – including eg. areas I felt safe in as a teenage girl 10 years ago. So I don’t know if you’re committed to the city specifically or looking at suburbs, but definitely recommend doing some walking around on your trial visit and see how it feels to you
Anonymous
Is this a – not my kids not my business issue or would you say something because it’s your nieces?
DH’s brother has 2 daughters ages 9 and 12 and about 2 years ago had a son. He always loved his daughters and still does but once the boy came along OMG it’s cringy. It’s constant talk of how god had something more in store for him to give him a son. It’s cringy IG videos about helping a 2 year old achieve his life dreams. Problem is this isn’t normal sibling spacing where this child’s 3 year old sister doesn’t get it. These amazingly smart, athletic 9 and 12 year old girls totally get it and sometimes you can see the hurt.
DHs view is stay out of it, it isn’t our kids. We don’t have kids yet and if I’m being honest I think DH is the type who’ll see having a son as some kind of higher calling. He grew up with 2 brothers, 1 sister, dad – who they idolized passed when my DH was just a preteen. I’ve known the family since we were in high school and the brothers raised each other via sports as mom was working non stop. So they’re very proud of all 3 getting D1 scholarships to college, a number of state championships and sports All Americans in college, one brother in the NFL for five years, DH at Olympic trials for his sport. Never mind that their sister also went D1, their oldest brother has 2 daughters competing on Olympic teams. Somehow it’s this vision of SONS. Makes me feel terrible for my nieces. Would you ever mention it?
Cat
Yuck. When they’re talking, can DH at least ask brother “hey haven’t heard about Girl and Girl lately, what are they up to?”
nuqotw
+1. Yuck.
Your BIL is probably going to pay the piper for all this SON business some day but I don’t think it’s your job or a good idea to interfere to try to prevent paying the piper or staving off the day the piper is paid.
In addition to what Cat said, I’d take the nieces out (as a pair, and as individuals) for special attention and big kid things when I can / when I see them.
pugsnbourbon
I think what your in-laws are doing is gross but I wouldn’t say anything directly to them. When I visit I’d make sure to ask lots of questions about the nieces and fuss over their accomplishments.
Anonymous
This. I don’t think dads like this change and where is the mom on this? But yes your nieces need an adult who’ll ask them about their school, sports, friends, whatever and make a big deal out of them. That could be your role.
NYCer
This would be my strategy too. I don’t see a direct comment to them changing anything, especially if it is coming from you not their brother.
[As an aside, your husband has an incredibly athletic extended family!]
Anonymous
I wouldn’t mention it since it’s your husbands brother. But in no way I would procreate with a sexist pig who’s obsessed with sons which is what your husband it. Get help for your own marriage before meddling.
Anon
Same.
Jo March
Said more bluntly than what I was about to type, but basically this.
I would be concerned about having kid(s) with my husband if he sees no issues with his brother’s parenting. To the point of reconsidering the relationship if you two do want children of your own because you never know what the universe has in store and IMO you need to be sure that your partner (and you) will love any and all children equally.
As an aunt, I would make it a point to have a relationship with the nieces so that they feel heard and seen and feel like they have relatives they can trust, but I don’t see what voicing your concerns to the parents will achieve other than family drama.
Trish
Anon, at 12:16. Please get help. The OP never said her DH agrees with BIL parenting. She is concerned that he might feel the same way. I would suggest that OP push the issue with DH and get him to explore his feelings. My guess is that most of these men are not even aware of how they are treating their daughters.
Anonymous
I’m not sure there is anything you can do. My dad was similarly obsessed with having a son, my mom was ambivalent on motherhood and had kids because that’s what you do in your 30s. This resulted in basically no one parenting me and my dad spending all his time focusing on my brother’s sports. I’m very low contact with my parents now, but since my brother turned out to be a lemon my parents are intensely interested in forming a relationship with their successful child, yet they don’t have the self awareness to realize. successful inspite of them not because of them.
anon
Ugh that is super gross. And I’m also sorry that you feel your husband may be a little sympathetic to this sort of thinking. I don’t think you should interject yourself though- I’d ask you what possible good could come of that. Now, I do think you can fill some of the gap with giving the girls some affirmation and attention that they’re not getting from parents.
Anon
I would do my best to form a solid bond with your nieces. They will appreciate it and understand that their dad is the problem, not them.
My mother used to say that she wishes she had sons. Amazing how once old age hits, you end up grateful for the kids you have….
Senior Attorney
Yeah, I feel like saying something to your BIL is unlikely to make any difference, but spending time with your nieces could do a lot of good.
anonshmanon
+1. He’s not doing this accidentally and will not course correct if you alert him. This sounds 100% intentional. That is the reason you don’t need to waste your energy addressing it with him.
Anon
I’d primarily focus on being an awesome aunt to his daughters. My grandfather was a fine but not involved father and I know my dad has always viewed his uncle as being the “father figure” in his life. So, be that for your nieces as much as you can.
How you react to your our brother depends on your relationship with him. Are you close enough that you could just give him a “dude wtf?” When he gets weird about his son?
anon
I’d sidestep your brother in law completely and focus on being an amazing aunt and uncle to those two girls. Take them on cool adventures that a 2 year old can’t do, give them thoughtful gifts, tell them how great their accomplishments are. You aren’t going to change their father but you can be an external additional support and source of self confidence for them.
Anon
agree with others to shift conversation to daughters’ accomplishments. if your husband wants to take a more active role, he could perhaps have a private conversation but I think that’s between the two brothers and not something you can get involved in.
Lily
Agree you should focus on the girls and building them up. Would there ever be an appropriate occasion to say something like, “I hope I have two daughters just like you one day, I can’t wait…” (assuming you intend to try to have kids). Not that’s it’s ok to prioritize daughters over your sons either, but your nieces should know that for some people (me!) the strong preference is for girls.
Lily
Oh and I would lay down the law right now with your husband about how he can’t treat your future kids like his brother treats his. Playing favorites is gross, and playing favorites based on gender is even worse.
Cb
Right? My dad had a strong #girldad preference but had the good sense to only have 1 kid. They did joke that they didn’t know what to do with boys when my son was born, but he’s a fantastic grandpa to my son (moved halfway across the world to be nanny for 6 months, etc).
Anon
Same here, only child and my dad was so relieved I was a girl. He had a really traumatic childhood with his dad who didn’t think he was “man enough” and I think he wanted to break that cycle. He was also very relieved his only grandchild was a girl, although I’m sure he would have been fine even if my kid had been a boy.
Anonymous
This. I was all on board for you and your DH to cultivate a supportive relationship with the girls until you said you are worried about him too.
FWIW, I have 1 girl + 2 boys and DH is a very sporty guy who treats them all the same. He’s probably taken DD to more hockey games than the boys because they are not as into hockey. He gives zero Fs that one of the boys is not into any kind of competitive sports and they bond over cooking and hiking. He is the very aware of differential treatment based on gender and gets frustrated with my mom and her gendered gifts sometimes. What would your DH do if he had a son who did not want to participate in sports?
NYNY
DH and I are child-free by choice, but my nieces and nephews are a great joy in my life. As they reached the age your nieces are at now I was able to develop more individual relationships with them, and that’s what I would recommend for this situation. Your BIL isn’t going to change, but you can be a cheerleader and confidante and overall cool aunt for his girls. If they have their own cell phones, start texting them occasionally. It doesn’t have to be a big deal, just memes and emojis do a lot. If you live close, start making a point of doing things with the girls together or one at a time.
It may be worthwhile to confront your BIL, but it would be better if you had support from your husband. You don’t want to get into a fight that ultimately prevents you from being there for the girls.
Anonymous
Men like that ate so gross.
If this were me, I would be rethinking that “yet” in regards to having your own, because this will be your life and your daughters if your husband is of the same mindset.
I grew up with a girl whose father wished she were a boy and she no longer speaks to him.
I do agree with others who say stay out of it. Your saying something will not only make no difference in how he feels or behaves, it will probably make things worse. Concentrate on being a great aunt to the girls.
Anonymous
I would be very, very concerned if I wanted to have children with my husband and he didn’t see a problem with the appalling behavior you’re describing. I would focus on getting my own house in order. Be the cool aunt by all means. But tbh I wouldn’t be part of this family for much longer if my husband wasn’t equally disgusted by his brother’s behavior.
Anon
This is the real issue here.
anon
Yeah I didn’t comment on this but had the same thought.
Anon
Seriously!! Why would you have kids with someone if you are concerned he’s going to treat them this way?
Anon
If you’re a working parent of an infant with low sleep needs, how do you function at work when you’re in the throes of baby’s sleep regression? I’m exhausted, I can’t drink coffee or tea due to baby’s reflux and I’ve been staring at the same paragraph for the past half hour.
Anon
I would get a night nurse even if it meant giving up every discretionary line item in my budget. Sleep is a non-negotiable for me. If you really can’t afford that, parents sleep in shifts so each parent gets something resembling 8 hours.
Curious
+1. They are life-saving. Also, consider taking a nap if there is a quiet room or nursing room. You won’t be any less productive than you are now, and you might come out of it better off. Finally, if this is frequent, you can consider asking for an accommodation that would allow you to get day sleep. I had to work 3/4 time for the first few months back after chemo (and this was after several months of recovery with no work at all). The hit to our income wasn’t my favorite, but being able to nap almost daily is what got me through. I know cancer recovery is protected, but post-partum has its own risks and may be something you can document enough to get the space.
Anon
Wean the baby so you can drink coffee!
Anon
This.
Anon
Can you get meds for the reflux?
Anonamoma
We are fully on formula since I’ve been back at work, so I drink all the coffee. For some reason, missing sleep was easier with my 2nd baby than with my first. Other than caffeine, the only thing that helps is the perspective that this too shall pass.
Anon
Pump so dad can take some night feedings.
nuqotw
I didn’t function much. It was bad.
Is it that baby can / was sleeping through the night and is now waking up? If so, I’d let baby fuss a bit more and see if the baby goes back to sleep. At some point I realized our baby (5 or 6 months old at the time) was waking up primarily to play and not to eat so I raised the bar for the level of fuss required to get me out of bed. After a few nights we started to hear babbling instead of crying and then everyone went back to sleep.
Anon
Does baby actually have low sleep needs or is the baby sleeping less (and worse than normal) because of reflux? DS did not sleep through the night until he was on medication for reflux.
Also, not sure if this is your problem, but a dream feed helped us prevent early wakeups when DS was younger.
We try to alternate who is in charge of the night wakeup so that neither of us is totally sleep deprived if DS is going through a regression. It still doesn’t work perfectly, but at this point, we know that any regression is only going to last a few days, etc., and then we can catch up on sleep/work later.
Anonymous
I was a lot less productive than usual at some periods!
Anon
Two of my kids refused bottles and night nursed (but I did drink one cup of coffee per day). I can’t really remember anything except that DH handled weekend mornings so at least I could sleep in then.