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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 544 Comments · by

Weekend Open Thread

Weekend Open Thread

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Tinley Road Star Print Drapey BlazerSomething on your mind? Chat about it here. Ladies, we are living in an era of some seriously wackadoo blazers. The cuts and colors I'm seeing right now (to say nothing of the prices) are kind of shocking. I love blazers, but it's hard to get behind the truly strange ones, except for the weekend. That said, I kind of actually like this black and white star print blazer from Tinley Road. It looks like it could be fun with jeans and a tank on the weekend — perhaps even belted over a maxi dress or something. The price for this one is right: $52.99 (was $69) at Piperlime. Tinley Road Star Print Drapey Blazer (L-6)

Sales of note for 9.19.24

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September, and cardmembers earn 3x the points (ends 9/22)
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Boden – 15% off new styles
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
  • J.Crew – 50% off select styles — and 9/19 only, 50% off the cashmere wrap
  • J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
  • Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
  • Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Anniversary event, 25% off your entire purchase — Free shipping, no minimum, 9/19 only
  • Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
  • Tuckernuck – Friends & Family Sale – get 20%-30% off orders (ends 9/19).
  • White House Black Market – 40% off select styles

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  3. Woods-comma-Elle

    So, Hunger Games – never read the books, do I need to go and see this movie this weekend? Should I read the books first?

    Is it more like Twilight or more like Game of Thrones (or neither). FAOD I cannot stand Twilight and love Game of Thrones.

    • TCFKAG

      I think its more Game of Thrones than Twilight.

      All the reviews say you don’t NEED to read the book to see the movie, but you could read the book in less than a day, so I’d read it first if it were me (its really good, trust me.)

    • cc

      Middle? Not nearly as well written as game of thrones. But not like twilight. Strong, independent female character who is very skilled with a bow and arrow going through forced survival while having some run of the mill teen angst and finding herself.

    • 30

      The Hunger Games is not like Twlight at all, unless you extrapolate them to the level of “Sci Fi and/or Fantasy story with a love triangle.” But even then, they’re different in that the love triangle is really not the heart of the story in The Hunger Games. (And if you care, Twilight is in the fantasy/horror genre while The Hunger Games is dystopian sci-fi.) I think the only reason why these books are being compared is that the makers of the movie hope to create a phenomenon similar to the “Twilight Saga” movies.

      But if you like political intrigue and don’t shy away from violence (as in Game of Thrones), you might like The Hunger Games.

    • Fiona

      One of my finest joys of 2011 was reading the Hunger Games triology. You could read the first one in a day, easily (I read it on a cross-country flight). So I’d say read the book and then go see the movie if you can.

      It’s not a complicated plot by any means, or even a complicated world (much less than Harry Potter, for example). But a lot of the book is the main character’s inner thoughts, and I’m not sure how well that’s going to translate on screen.

      • Saw It Last Night

        I saw the movie yesterday and it was an amazingly good translation of the book into film.

    • Sconnie

      I haven’t read either Game of Thrones or Twilight, but I saw and loved the first few GoT episodes thanks to a free HBO promo and I completely refuse to read Twilight. I love Hunger Games. Like, love. I would characterize it as Fahrenheit 451 meets Life of Pi.

    • Niktaw

      I haven’t read the HG yet. I may see the movie before I get to the books.
      Went on Amazon just now and was amazed at the amount of meta-lit HG has sprouted.

    • Woods-comma-Elle

      .Ok, I bought the first one on the way home and read the first 45 pages on the bus. I feel my evening will be spent reading it with a glass of wine on the sofa and this is fine by me!

    • Suomi

      I read the books (have not seen the movie yet). The books are addictive read. Of course, a movie can never give you everything that is in the book, but you probably can see it without having read the books. I was a bit disappointed by some of the casting choices that were made in the movie because I did not think they really corresponded well to the book, but I am sure that the movie will be lots of fun regardless.
      While Twilight’s central theme is the love story, Hunger Games deals with more complex issues, such as war, oppression, etc. The love story is in the background. I found that refreshing.

    • Barrister in the Bayou

      The dialogue in the movie could have been a little better, but all in all I thought it was really good (I’ve read the books and loved them). It looks like it was shot “guerrilla style”/documentary-ish and I think that really added to it.

      In case anyone was wondering: Team Peeta all the way! Josh Hucherson was awesome; the guy that played Gale, not so much (IMO).

      • Sweetknee

        Not to be startin’ something, but Team Gale all the way ! peter while politically savvy, is kinda a wimp to me !

    • Susan

      Way more like Game of Thrones. Think Daenerys!

      Bella is just so passive, ugh. I really dislike the Twilight series, as it’s all about the passive female who suddenly has two totally hot passionate guys fighting for her. Lots of bait-switch stuff delaying the s#x, so think of it as a training-bra to cheesily written adult romance novels.

      • coco

        The was an article in Entertainment Weekly once that basically said “Stephanie Meyers hates women”. In Entertainment Weekly. That pretty much summed up Twilight for me.

      • Woods-comma-Elle

        Yes, this is why I hated Twilight – she has absolutely no personality and it’s all just about the guys and not about her, although I only read the first one as I couldn’t go on after that as I was just so angry that someone could write this kind of role model for young women and make so much money out of it.

        So far enjoying Hunger Games, although the reference to Daenerys amused me as that was my least favourite storyline in Game of Thrones!

        • a.

          Aw, no love for Dany? I think she’s a total bad*ss. I, on the other hand, could do without ever reading another chapter from Cersei or Sansa’s perspectives again.

          • Divaliscious11

            Daenarys is second only to Arya and then Brienne…. read the rest….

          • a.

            Oh yeah, the next books will change your mind for sure.

            FWIW, my picks: 1. Brienne; 2. Dany; 3. Arya (just because she’d started getting on my nerves by the last one).

        • Samantha

          Agreed, Arya was my favorite gutsy warrior female from GoT; Brienne of Tarth was great too. I thought Dany was a tad whiny and too dependent on men to really be strong in her own right. That storyline also had a lot of hocus-pocus and Dany never ended up ever fighting, unlike the other two. FWIW, I read the first four books but not the last one.

  4. Supra

    I seriously love the Nanette Lepore blazer that Kat linked as a seriously wackadoo one. Oops.

    • TCFKAG

      Me too actually. Its cute! Maybe not for work though (and the price is a bit of a stomach punch). :-)

      • Genny

        Agreed! Definitely NOT for work, but if it was the same price as Kat’s pick, I would buy it for more casual wear for sure!

        • Supra

          I am somehow always drawn to the picks that are in the $400 – $500 range. Not high enough to shake my head and wonder who in the world could *ever* afford that (or want to spend that) for a piece of clothing, but high enough that I’m not comfortable spending that on one item of clothing.

      • Bluejay

        Me too and I’d totally wear it to work. So lovely with a white or yellow sheath.

    • viclawstudent

      Yeah, I was just coming here to say the same thing … the other three were, indeed, wackadoo (even more so than I was expecting), but I’d really like the Nanette Lepore one. I don’t think I’d wear it at work, though, except maybe on casual Friday.

      • Amanda

        I agree! The Nanette one is really pretty and I’d love it for the weekend.

    • Godzilla

      Should’ve definitely continued reading the thread before posting. But yeah, me too!

    • MaggieLizer

      I can’t wait to get home so I can see the linked blazers! Stupid work blocking software….

  6. January

    Question: is it too soon for a maxi dress? (I mean for going out, not for work, obviously). It’s about 80 degrees here today.

  8. anon

    TJ: what does the Hive think of nannies bringing their own children to work?

    • PharmaGirl

      If that is the agreement, fine. But I would not be okay with the nanny bringing the kid without asking first.

    • TCFKAG

      Are we talking regularly or irregularly.

      Irregularly — I’d be totally fine with it, for example if they brought them on a school vacation day or something.

      Regularly — I guess it would depend on my child’s temperament and the temperament of the child of the nanny, but my instinct would be that it would be fine. It would probably be nice for kids to have playmates.

      But I haven’t been confronted with this IRL so — grain of salt.

    • MOR

      Absent extenuating circumstances (e.g., nanny’s child is out of control or there is some sort of special needs situation that makes caring for more than just the special needs child difficult or impossible), I think it’s fine. (With an agreement in advance as PharmaGirl said, of course.)

    • Emily I

      I tried this once, and it didn’t work very well, but I think it depends on lots of variables. My nanny brought her three year old to care for my 2 1/2 year old and 6 month old. The three-year-old had problems with her mom attending to my kids. The problem is, I’m not sure how to tell whether it would work in advance. Maybe you could try it on a trial basis (a couple weeks, maybe?) to see how everyone feels about the situation?

    • Anon

      Our existing nanny became pregnant while working for us. We tried letting her bring her newborn (and did this for 9 months), but it didn’t work out very well, as the needs of her newborn were very different from the needs of our toddlers. Of course parents deal with different age kids all the time, but we were paying her for a service that we didn’t feel like we were getting anymore. If you have kids of similar ages, I think it might work better and even be ideal, but I do think you should pay less if you are letting your nanny bring her child with you.

    • anon

      I once hired a nanny with a child about the same age as mine, with the understanding she would bring her child with her to work. The only problem was, if her kid got sick, she had to stay home, and either I or my husband had to stay home because I did not have a nanny. If my kid got sick, somebody had to stay home, because she did not want to expose her kid. And everytime hers got sick, mine got sick about the time hers got well. It seemed like a whole lot of sick days going on. I found other arrangements after about 4 months.

      • Coach Laura

        I have two separate friends who did this, both of whom had babies the same age as the nanny’s baby. (One friend had a child ~ 8 years old and the other had another child ~2 years old when the babies were born.) Both of these families used their nannies until the youngest were in all-day kindergarten and each family is still friends with their respective nanny. The kids grew up like cousins. I think it can work but it takes the right chemistry.

        From what I know, each nanny would bring her slightly ill child with her, because kids are exposed to a lot of germs at day-care anyway so it’s not much different. If the nanny’s kid was very sick, the nanny would find other care and not leave the paying client high and dry.

      • WWM

        I briefly considering doing this then decided against it. The potential nanny’s kid still took naps and mine didn’t, which meant that my kids’ day would revolve around her schedule. I also think it would take a really special person not to favor their own kid. I would consider this only if I were working from home, or part-time.

        From my research, nannies who bring their own kids get paid a considerable lower rate. This is partially because (1) they have less time to spend on other household errands/chores they might otherwise be responsible for, and (2) the generally perceived undesirablity of the situation makes them much less marketable.

    • Divaliscious11

      Periodically – okay, so long as the child is not terribly ill. Long term, I found it to be problematic. While I didn’t necessarily think my nanny paid any less attention to my kids, what happened was a lot of “The children were playing” and something was broken and too many were things my kids never expressed any interest in. Also, be prepared for kid friendly food to go much faster and activity money (I always left some petty cash for treats like ice cream cones etc… if they went to the park or the truck came in the neighborhood).

      • Divaliscious11

        Sorry – to complete the thought “…to go much faster as well” Her kid was right in between mine, so they were developmentally in the same space but we were different kinds of parents as well. As a nanny, she did what I requested for my children, but hers – well was hers and so I couldn’t say Nanny child must do X – which was confusing for my kids. When a slotopened up in the daycare, she had to take it.

    • Anonymous

      I know a nanny who did this with her first (and will with her second). They were a family with four kids in Brooklyn. The kids ranged in age from eight to toddler. They were a wonderful chaotic family that was always on the go and kind of freewheeling. The kids didn’t have tons of extra-curriculars (who could keep it all straight, let alone afford it, with four?) and so the schedule was all about playing and art and cooking. They were definitely a more the merrier type family. They love my friend and she adores their kids.

      But I know people who have full time nannies for their younger child and a babysitter for their older child so that the kids schedules never conflict (these people tend to live in modernist apartments — though its not a one to one correlation). And they would NOT be okay with the nanny bringing their kid. (These are people I adore, by the way. I’d love to be the kind of person who could live in a modernist apartment.)

      I think you just need to know which kind of family you are and how you want the nanny to interact with your kid(s). I still babysit and I’m going to be very sad in the next couple of years to have to leave my super tidy, organized families when I have my own kids.

  9. cc

    C Hax addressed the same prenup question we talked about the other day. I think she articulated the problem I have with the idea of prenups- that you don’t trust you partner to treat you fairly during the divorce, or vice versa. If that is the case, I think you should be thinking about what that means for the marriage and trust issues in general.

    • SF Bay Associate

      The prenup issue is also on A Practical Wedding today. I guess it’s on a lot of people’s minds.

    • Can't Wait to Quit

      I just saw that – congrats to the OP for getting Hax to address her question. I thought the followup posts about it on the chat were interesting too.

    • Divaliscious11

      I don’t think its unrealistic to think that if a relationship has broken down to the point of divorce, that you and your partner may have different definitions of fair, or difficulty negotiating without your emotions taking over, though…. My husband I and disagree on what is fair now on a lot of things. To me it means coming to agreement on what is fair in advance of what would be an emotionally trying time. To be clear, I don’t have a prenup, and at the time I got married, my husband made 3x as much as I was making in Biglaw. I’m now in-house, he has changed jobs and for the time being I am in the primary income earner, but that will change again soon, and when it does, I will likely have to (and will willingly) stop working to support him, and am thinking we may do a post-nup. I have no concerns about my marriage, but do have a bit of trepidation about going out of the workforce, even though it will be the right thing for our family. We don’t always agree about how much to put in someone’s wedding envelope – I can’t imagine how difficult it would be with anger and hurt thrown in….

  10. Nonny

    Ladies, I have a final offer (a good one) from the new firm and my house was listed today.

    I cannot concentrate on anything for more than about 5 seconds today and I feel seriously ill.

    • Anon for this

      “The Richer Sex” piece on NPR brought something to mind that I’ve thinking about recently…I do make more than my DH and it’s something that he and I explicitly talked about before we got married 5 years ago. I’m in consulting and he’s in IT and while the pay gap isn’t huge, it’s enough to sometimes create a….tension. We don’t argue about it at all, and he tells me all the time he’s proud of me and my accomplishments and promotions. I truly don’t believe he resents me for it and it’s something that we try to talk about openly if it ever comes up. It mostly comes up with a stupid comment made by one of his friends or a family member (e.g., he goes to happy hour without me because I’m working late and his friend says “well someone needs to pay the bills”) – my DH says it doesn’t bother him but I know it makes him feel bad about himself and his life choices. For a variety of reasons, he can’t change his job and industry immediately.

      Anyway I just don’t know how to react in those situations where he feels bad about other people judging him/us/his role in “our” life and marriage. Anyone else been there? How do you respond? How do you help your SO cope?

      • anon for this question

        I’m a bit sarcastic, so I would respond to an inappropriate remark with something like: “Yeah, I just married him for his looks/he’s great in the sack.”

        Honestly, I don’t think it’s anyone else’s business who makes what in your household.

      • karenpadi

        I had this issue just out of law school with a then-boyfriend. I was a year ahead in law school so he was coming up right behind me but a 10k difference between my mid-law salary and his big-law first year salary really rankled him.

        I had this issue again with my most recent boyfriend. I made twice what he made and put a hefty down payment on a house while we were dating. He was annoyed that I didn’t use that money to help him start a gym.

        I give up. I did allow the ex-BF to pay for dinner in restaurants etc to avoid him feeling “humiliated” (whatever…I don’t get it but I was willing to accommodate it). But sometimes it went too far. E.g., I plan a weekend getaway as an anniversary present to him so I put the reservations in my name on my credit card. Makes sense? He didn’t agree. He was “humiliated” to check in under a “girls” name.

        Some guys have issues. I really think therapy (individual or couple) is the only answer if they can’t accept that I make more money (or save more money) than they do after a year of dating.

        • ShortieK

          I’m really glad that guy is your ex-BF… he sounds like a total jerk.
          Humiliated to check in under a girl’s name!

          • KC

            Agreed. Who’s paying that much attention? The hotel clerk? The waiter at the restaurant?

          • TCFKAG

            When I read this, I actually said “Eeww” aloud. What an a-hole! I make reservations all the time on my credit card from my husband and my joint account, would that be humiliating too? Blergh.

          • karenpadi

            Thanks! Yeah, he was a great guy but there were issues. This kind of thing has gone from a yellow flag to a red flag in my dating mindset.

        • Esquared

          KarenPadi, I agree w/ ShortieK that I’m glad he’s your ex– a guy that can’t be comfortable with your success (financial or professional) is not someone that should be in your life. Your partner should always be helping you be better & encourage you to do everything you can to succeed and live a happy life, not stunting you.
          So, for the past long time, my mother has made a tad more than my father and it has never been an issue in my family. Besides my dad being very pr0 my mom pursuing every possible opportunity, I think they just have the attitude that they are a team. When one person succeeds, it brings the unit to better heights, after all, the more money you bring in, the more money you have to share and to provide for your family. I think it’s good to remind him of this when he feels down & to remind him of what he brings to the relationship & remind him how you couldn’t do what you do, as well as you do it, without his support, help & unique skills that he brings to the relationship.
          As for the comments, 1. Why do these people know you make more? & 2. Are you sure they aren’t just making random conversation when they say these things? It took me a while to realize that sometimes people just have stock comments they make that do not necessarily relate to anything beyond just trying to make small talk.

        • M-C

          The guy sounds like a total jerk. Glad he’s history. Next time, don’t wait: pay the first time at the restaurant. If he balks, that should be the last date :-).

      • CKB

        We deal with this in our marriage some. I am the main breadwinner, dh’s career is difficult to find work in right now, and that career has shorter hours, so when he is working he’s still primary care giver.

        I know it helps my dh to remember that this situation is best for our family right now, and we have ALWAYS considered all income as ‘our’ income, not yours & mine. He also knows that I don’t look down on him for making less money (or being unemployed, like he spent the majority of last year). I know as well that my dh is very proud of me & the accomplishments I’ve made in my career so far.

        However, especially when he was unemployed, he felt badly about himself because he wasn’t contributing to the family budget, and hearing an offhand comment by someone else was seen through that filter and made him feel worse.

        I’m not sure what advice to tell you about how your dh should respond, and I’m interested in seeing if anyone else has good ideas, but I wanted to let you know you’re not alone, and it sounds like you have a solid marriage and I’m glad to hear the issue isn’t between you & your dh, but with outside jerks.

        • Divaliscious11

          This. When my husband transitioned from old career to new (similar but different roles) he missed the hiring cycle and essentially sat out a year. That was tough. It was tough on his ego because he felt like he wasn’t contributing, despite taking over all of the primary child care duties and it was tough for me as well, because despite being a “modern woman” it just felt weird. I wasn’t raised that any particular person had to be the primary income earner, but that able bodied adults should do some kind of work, even if its volunteer.

      • Circe

        I think it’s a personal issue he should work to resolve. Why is other people’s opinion so important to him? If you two are happy, what is the problem? Learn to shrug it off – pros can help with that.

        • meme

          I’ve always made more than DH (both lawyers – I am 4 years ahead out of law school) and it has never mattered. I think he is just glad to have the contribution to the bottom line. It probably helps that our finances are 100% combined. When people/friends used to tease him about it (now that we’ve both been practicing for awhile it’s not really apparent to outsiders anymore) he would just laugh it off and make fun of them for their comparatively poor success in finding a “sugar mama.”

      • ShortieK

        I think people try to funny and just end up being douche-bags.

        “Yepp. Good thing we almost have gender equality!
        Yeah, I’m glad we’re in the 21st century!
        Women should go back to being property too!”
        etc…
        I think making general pointed comments (but light hearted) about the sexist nature of their comments comes to your husbands defense without making it personal.

        (Saying “well, he’s good at X” makes it seem like that good attribute makes up for his lack in bread winning department, when in reality there’s nothing that needs to be made up for)

        ….not sure what a good respond for your DH, but what about something like “yeah, I’m really lucky.” Something generic like that would stop the teasing (b/c he’s not going to play) and casts what his friend might see as a fault in a more positive light…. like duh, what couple wouldn’t want more income?

      • mamabear

        I make between two and three times as much as my husband, and I won’t lie and tell you it’s not an issue. It is an issue and will always be one.

        However, that’s between us. To other people we are a united front. The one time I saw a friend of ours say something to my husband about him being a “kept man,” my husband responded, “Yep. I’m a lucky man.” End of discussion.

      • Susan

        I think your SO has two choices: (1) he needs to shut down those types of comments if they bug him

        OR

        (2) Improve his sense of self and self-esteem on this matter. If he’s secure, they won’t bug him.

        Only he can assess which is less difficult. I think both are tough, and you can be supportive of whichever he chooses. If he wants to do nothing, I’d nudge him, because this sort of thing is often better if nipped in the bud.

        Personally, I’d change my own attitude. It’s tough to live a life when other people’s careless words have so much power to ruin my mood or make me feel bad about my life choices. I can’t quote Eleanor Roosevelt enough, “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”

      • anon

        There is currently a pretty significant income difference between my husband and I. Right now I make almost double what he does. Both of us are really happy in our chosen careers, which I think makes a huge difference. You said your husband can’t change his job/industry right now, not that he loves his job so much that he doesn’t want it to change. Maybe that is part of the problem? It’s hard to stand up for a job that you don’t love. Maybe reframing the issue in terms of why he is still in his current job would help you know how to be more supportive?

    • Equity's Darling

      So exciting!

      And thanks for your reply on the earlier thread re: in-house. I think I’d be happy moving towards the business-side of law- that’s my background, and I’m comfortable in the area. I’ve never seen myself staying in private practice, and the idea of being a partner makes me feel a little sick. BUT, I think there’s a difference between going in at 4 years (the original plan), and going in right after I’m called (the option that is being presented). So, I will need to think about it, but….I think the combo of business and law is one that is a perfect fit for me.

      I really appreciate that you take the time to reply to my junior questions, because you a) know the market and profession; b) unfortunately, everyone I know in real life sort of has an actual stake in where I end up (i.e. mentor in Group A, mentor in Group B, my principal, my contacts at Big Corp, etc.), and so I worry that I don’t get any objective responses, and in some cases, I can’t even bring up the topic; and c)most of my friends are articling students, soo..blind leading the blind there.

      • Nonny

        No worries, always happy to help, ED, and if you ever need advice off-line, let me know.

  11. Anon for this

    Oops! Didn’t mean to respond to Nonny directly. (Sorry!)

    Reposting again…

    The Richer Sex” piece on NPR brought something to mind that I’ve thinking about recently…I do make more than my DH and it’s something that he and I explicitly talked about before we got married 5 years ago. I’m in consulting and he’s in IT and while the pay gap isn’t huge, it’s enough to sometimes create a….tension. We don’t argue about it at all, and he tells me all the time he’s proud of me and my accomplishments and promotions. I truly don’t believe he resents me for it and it’s something that we try to talk about openly if it ever comes up. It mostly comes up with a stupid comment made by one of his friends or a family member (e.g., he goes to happy hour without me because I’m working late and his friend says “well someone needs to pay the bills”) – my DH says it doesn’t bother him but I know it makes him feel bad about himself and his life choices. For a variety of reasons, he can’t change his job and industry immediately.

    Anyway I just don’t know how to react in those situations where he feels bad about other people judging him/us/his role in “our” life and marriage. Anyone else been there? How do you respond? How do you help your SO cope?

    • Anon

      I’m in the same boat, and my DH basically feels the same way (completely supportive, doesn’t care at all, possibly only cares if someone is stupid enough to make a comment). I don’t have any recommendations for what to say to the people who make those comments, but I try to make sure my husband knows that my life would not function nearly as well without him. I thank him for making dinner, walking the dog, picking up laundry, etc. Just small things to make him realize how much I appreciate him and how much he contributes to our household.

    • Usually Lurks

      “my DH says it doesn’t bother him but I know it makes him feel bad about himself and his life choices”

      If your SO says it doesn’t bother them, then take him at his word and assume it doesn’t bother him.

    • KLG

      Not only do I make more but we have significantly different educational backgrounds as well. The money thing really doesn’t bother him at all, but he is also kind of a joker by nature so it’s pretty easy for him to be like “Hell yeah I got a sugar mama! You should have done the same!” The education thing is a little tougher but I often remind him we probably never would have met if things had been different.

      I think just reassuring him that you love your life the way it is and don’t see a need for him to make more unless it really matters to him. Especially because sometimes making more does come with increased responsibility, hours, etc. that can really change things.

    • eaopm3

      Similar situation: I’m an attorney and DH is in sales. The disparity between our incomes is (I am assuming here) greater than you describe. Currently, it only creates tension when other people bring it up, much like your situation. (His mother’s speech at our wedding, which thank god hardly anyone could hear, said something like “we always thought DH would NEED a lawyer, not marry one.” Groaaaannnn.)
      It was obvious from the beginning of our relationship that I would be the breadwinner. It created some tension between us early on because he would make remarks about not being able to provide a certain type of lifestyle, etc. I reassured him time and time again that I didn’t care if he was a janitor or a judge, as long as he always worked as hard as I did and as long as he always pushed himself. That message seems to have finally sunk in and the differences between our incomes is simply never discussed and it hasn’t been for our entire marriage. He knows how much I need him in my life and I make sure and tell him all the reasons I just couldn’t make it without him.

      When other people say something, I usually reply “Sugar mamma? Ha. You might want to run that by the wonderful husband that is helping me pay all those student loans back!”

    • AbbyA

      Agree with everything already posted. I make significantly more than my husband and he contributes around the home far more than I do. I remember to thank him for that often. It is true that my life (esopecially after children) would be awful if he weren’t there to take care of most of the homefront. When people do remark on the disparity, sometimes he replies that if he had been really smart he would have married into inherited money so his wife wouldn’t have to work so hard. People eaither see the humor in his reply or get confused and just shut up. He’s pretty confortable in his own skin which has made this pretty much a non-issue with us.

    • ss

      We married when I was in my early twenties and just starting out career-wise, while my husband was mid-thirties and peers with my boss’s boss. Over the years the balance has shifted to and fro – at one stage I was doing my own star turn and he was struggling with office politics in a failing firm, then he successfully got his own firm started while I got stuck, and so on.

      I was very lucky because my husband set the tone early in our marriage about the kind of partnership he wanted. No one’s career took precedence – he was always interested in my progress and aspirations, and always ready to share his own, nothing was ‘too boring’ or ‘too far over your head’. 10 years later, when he was starting up his own firm, I was proud and glad to be able to return the loving support, including taking over many of our household expenses. Also over the years we’ve had a lot of crossover between clients, colleagues and friends whom we see socially and who’ve made comments about trophy wives and house husbands depending whose career is up or down. It doesn’t bug either of us because we feel we’ve seen through a couple of cycles together and completely have each other’s back.

      So don’t worry too much about reacting to other people’s judgements – your view of your husband’s choices and achievements are what counts the most. If you are proud and interested, there will be many occasions in your daily life to let him know, just as you say he already does for you.

  12. Anon for this

    Regular poster going anon for this. Apologies if this is outside of the typical realm of relationship advice, but this morning’s thread reminded me of something that has been weighing on me. . .

    Do any of you who self-identify as straight ever experience attraction to women? I am in my early 30s, happily married to a wonderful guy. I periodically develop really intense crushes on other women, virtually always lesbian women (I have even found that I have a particular physical type — ha!). Right now I have a serious attraction to a friend of mine — one that has risen to the level of a distraction at times.

    Am I alone in this? And if not, how have you handled this? I have never thought about being unfaithful. In fact, I have told my husband about these crushes — though I don’t think he understands the extent of the physical attraction aspect. But at the same time, I wonder if I am repressing my own sexuality.

    • Anonynonynony

      Nope you’re not alone. Happens to me fairly often.

      I think we’re all on the Kinsien (?) scale and the idea that anyone is 100% straight is kind of silly. I may be repressing my attraction to women, but then again, I’m also repressing my attraction to other men, since I’m in a monogamous relationship. :-) (I don’t mean to make light of this, it is a serious issue, but do know that you’re not alone!)

    • layered bob

      Like anonynonynony said, I don’t believe anyone is 100% anything. If I hadn’t met my husband when I did, I probably would be dating my best (girl) friend, who I’ve always had serious chemistry with.

      I still get crushes on people on both/all s3xes, but I promised fidelity to my husband so I choose to direct my energy towards him. In my experience, it’s best to notice and accept the attraction (instead of trying to ignore it), play with it in your head a little bit, and then let it go when you can.

      By accepting the attraction, you have the power to channel your s3xual energy rather than have it drive you to distraction.

    • In fantasy only

      Yes. My “crushes” have always been more on the sexual level than the emotional level though. More like “she’s hot, it would be fun to make out with her” rather than “I’d like to have a relationship with her.” Also, I don’t know why, but I always seem to attract lesbians. I can be at a party of 50 people and end up totally hitting it off w/ a cute girl and a friend of mine will whisper “she’s lesbian you know.” I’ve been at bars where women will say to my husband “if you weren’t married, I’d totally get with your wife.” We laugh about it, but the one time I almost took it out of fantasy and into reality my husband pulled me back. We are both afraid of it changing our relationship if we act on it, even if he is involved. I was also very drunk and he would rather I not do something drunk I might regret. I’m lucky I scored a great guy. I do think we both enjoy the “maybe someday” fantasy though.

    • ShortieK

      I went through something like this.
      I think questions aside of who or what gender you’re attracted to, you need to think about your marriage. Are you willing to risk your relationship with him for a possible relationship with some one else?
      From your post, it sounds like the answer that question is no.
      So is this crush (and past crushes) something that you can bring up seriously with your husband? Could you explore your sexuality together? Either through fantasy or a threesome?
      Or: talk your feelings out with a friend who’s out or bi. (but not one that you have a crush on)

    • Anon

      You’re definitely not alone in this, and agree with other commenters about there being a spectrum of sexuality. I want to say I’ve read this spectrum is stronger in women than in men, but I’m not 100% positive about where I read that, if at all. Anyhow, I’ve experienced attraction to other women despite being in a very happy relationship with a guy I love and find quite attractive :) He and I have discussed this, and I am glad we can talk about it openly.

      Ultimately, the question I asked myself was this: would I feel I had been untrue to who I really am, or that I had denied myself, if I never acted on these crushes? Honestly, I wouldn’t, and looking at it from that angle was helpful to me.

    • anon sequitur

      I went through a period of experimenting with a female friend, back in high school. After that, I’ve been more than happy sticking to dudes, but will still occasionally find myself admiring another woman. Rarely, I’ll even watch lesbian p*rn. But at this point I have 0 desire to act on those feelings.

      Like others have said, I don’t believe anyone is 100% anything. You are not alone in having these feelings. If you feel like you are seriously missing out on something important by not being with women, you need to talk to your husband about a healthy, non-relationship-destroying way to explore those feelings. (Threesome? Assignation? Monogamishness?) If not, take all those feelings of attraction and distraction and channel them towards your husband.

    • So anon

      I’m the cheater from yesterday so no, not alone. Sounds like you have a much healthier way of dealing with it though. :)

    • Nevadan

      This is a stage that many people go through in their early teens. I don’t think it is common in adult straight women. At any rate, I have never heard of it. I htink it is going to make your life complicated and unpleasant, and also will be confusing and upsetting to those around you.

      • OP here

        Nevadan, WTF kind of comment is this? I made clear that I don’t want to jeopardize my relationship, so how else would something like this be unpleasant or confusing? If anything, your comment smacks of homophobia to me.

        To everyone else: thanks for the input. Glad to know I am not alone! I think the healthiest thing for me to do is to acknowledge the feelings and try to use them to spice things up with my husband.

      • a.

        Yeah, Nevadan, wow. That may be the most narrow-minded comment I have ever read on Corporette, and I hope I’m not feeding a troll here.

        OP, I think you’ve gotten good input from the commenters above, and I hope you can take Nevadan’s comment for the doggerel it is. Have fun with your hubs!

        • anon

          Perhaps what Nevadan meant is that you wouldn’t be having those “crushes” on women if you were straight, and it will be complicated and confusing to those around you to try to live as if you were straight when you are not (but perhaps many women succussfuly do this and we just don’t know!). Please note that Nevada stated that she didn’t think it is common on adult straight women. There is nothing homophobic about this. I am straight and have never had a crush on another woman or anything near that, although I often develop crushes on other men even though I am married. Please take all of this with a grain of salt as it is impossible to walk exactly in your shoes, and language can sometimes be imprecise.

      • anon redux

        Oh, Nevadan, how clueless. On the other hand, that’s probably why you live in Nevada :-).
        Possibly you felt some of the same as a teenager and repressed it so well you’re now not even allowing yourself to see it around you? Even though I believe there are people who’re truly 100% straight, the ones who don’t allow for anything else are usually far from clear on the matter.

    • Anon To Respond

      No you aren’t alone. I think sexuality is far more fluid than most people ever willingly admit to, which is also why it creates so much rancor. I always find it amusing when those railing against the evils of same sex anything get caught with someone of the same sex.

    • anon too for this

      Not only are you not alone, but the symptoms are fairly typical. As far as I can see, people who’re bi (to summarize, capable of both types of relationships, not 100% Kinsey anything) do tend to have more intense fantasies about the other sex than the one they’re partnered with. If you were in a happy relationship with a lesbian, possibly you might fantasize about guys. I think this is natural – there’s reality, that’s good and often what you really want, and fantasy tends to complement it :-).

      On the other hand, it’s possible you may be primarily repressing something. You may consider checking out lesbians more closely next time you’re free, just to make sure. Don’t try too hard now, unless you can find another woman in your same situation – lesbians, friends or not, tend not to appreciate being used for experiments. On the other hand, if the friend’s willing, maybe you’d have something there. Is she available, and may she reciprocate your feelings? But are you willing to leave your cushy straight relationship for a truly passionate one? If not, be careful not to cause a lot of collateral damage.

  13. Seriously?

    Yet again, shocked that my secretary still has a job in this economy. I hate being the junior person with a secretary that is well-liked and appreciated ONLY by the partner she works for.

    Since she is crazy defensive when ANY mistake she makes is pointed out, I’ve realized it’s useless to even try to make things ‘better’ — asking her to fix something results in passive aggressive behavior for days. She makes a lot of stupid mistakes, and I am failing to catch all her mistakes before things go out, so I look like an idiot.

    In order to get a new secretary, I’d probably have to make several official complaints in her review, which would lead to even worse work on her part And then it still may not change, since no one else wants her to work with them. I’m at a loss on how to deal with it.

    • anon

      No suggestions, but I could have written your post. So, my sympathy. I once wrote mine a bad review and got scolded by the partner for it.

    • anon

      I realize you probably have a valid dilemma here, but I can’t help but get a bad taste in my mouth when people rage against their secretaries. But that’s just me.

      • no longer "job hunting"

        Why? I think for any job, there are good/bad employees, and it’s ok to acknowledge that, especially when their abilities to do their work impacts others.

        • anon

          My best friend worked as a secretary at a law firm, so I can easily identify with the OP’s secretary and imagine the frustration she might be experiencing each day. It’s highly likely that the secretary is acting “passive aggressive” for a reason. Creating a positive working relationship is a two-way street. Foisting all the blame on someone who has less power than you do is a mistake.

          And let’s face it – many lawyers come from privileged backgrounds, and if they knew how difficult being a secretary actually is, they would have more patience and concern for the people who work under them rather than spending so much energy blaming them. Put yourself in their shoes.

          • cfm

            I agree with this. So often I see attorneys forget that they are paid like attorneys and their secretaries are paid like secretaries. They expect 110% at all times for some reason.

          • ELS

            Baby attorney here – and I agree with you … to a point.

            95% of the time that I have an “issue” (most of them don’t even rise to that) with my assistant or a staff member, I don’t think it’s an issue of needing to blame someone, etc. I try to be calm even when I’m stressed, and try to thoroughly explain things, or correct mistakes without being a jerk. I always try to say thank you and point out when my assistant has done a really great job on something/saved my *ss. I also don’t try not to “blame” someone for something being wrong. Most of the time, at least with my assistant, it’s an issue of miscommunication or simple inexperience, since we’re both new.

            However, I do think in some instances, it’s justified to be upset at poor performance, though I usually reserve that for willful defiance. For instance, one of the staff assigned to me has flatly refused to do basic tasks (drafting form letters, etc). She’ll only respond to my requests when my boss (also female) confronts her about it. In that situation, I think it’s justified for me to be miffed.

            Also worth noting that regardless of whether I came from a privileged background or not, I was a secretary prior to being a lawyer. Maybe that’s why I’m more empathetic to how hard it can be to juggle all the things I ask my assistant to do?

        • Divaliscious11

          Why shouldn’t I expect 110% from my secretary or my paralegal, just because I am paid as an attorney and she is paid as a secretary? That’s ridiculous. Whatever your skill set level, you are being paid to perform and you should be performing at your best. My grandmother took in laundry for virtually pennies and you better believe she sent back properly cleaned and pressed clothing, every time. There is no shame in honest work, and whatever work you do, should be at your best, even if you hate it.

          • CA Atty

            Yes exactly. And it’s not like OP is expecting her secretary to work the kinds of hours lawyers work for their higher salaries. Which, btw, is not always true. As has been said many times, a good legal secretary is worth more than a baby attorney because they know more, not only about how things get done in general but also how the firm prefers things get done.

            When I was a legal secretary I gave 110% and as an attorney I give 110%, that’s the nature of good work.

      • Bluejay

        I don’t think she’s raging at all. She’s just complaining. I don’t see how it’s different than complaining about your boss or anyone else.

          • Divaliscious11

            Underdog? Why is a secretary the underdog? Just because she gets paid less? Compensation is determined on the value of the work, not the value of the person….

          • cfm

            I agree I think there is a big difference between complaining about someone above you, and complaining about someone that works for you.

          • M-C

            Agreed, anon.
            And divaslicious, if the work is so worthless as to be paid a small fraction of what you get (no need to ask which side of the fence you’re on), then why bitch at all? You’re getting what you’re paying for.

    • Anon for This

      I truly feel for you. I have a terrible secretary too. I get food fingerprints on my mail (think orange cheeto prints), court hearings and deadlines don’t get calendared, she is never disciplined, typos are the norm and Exhibits are never copied with my complaints. She also acts this way for the partner too. He just ignores it. I work for a small firm and my secretary is going to be a lifer. I do 90% of my own work because it takes less time for me to do it correctly the first time rather than senidng work back to her to redo.

      • EK

        Do we work together? The secretary I “work” with does jack sh-t all day. Comes in at 10, takes extra long lunches at 3 pm, and leaves promptly at 5:00. If I want something done, I do it myself — mailing out discovery, sending faxes, organizing files, sorting mail . . . This woman has been at the firm for over 20 years (and has been getting away with this, I suspect, the entire time) and the bosses are either blind to her poor work performance or just don’t care anymore (especially now that I’m picking up her slack, I suspect). No advice to the OP, but I sympathize.

    • Esquared

      See how long it lasts. ;-p
      Colds clear up, allergies last forever and a day. Also something weird, if you’ve moved to a new place, sometimes it takes a while to develop allergies.

    • noon

      Allergies, for me – a nose that will NOT stop running unless I’m eating or sleeping, clear sn*t, and massive sinus pressure. Usually feel better after taking a Sudafed to dry up my sinuses.

      Cold – phlegmy, yellow/brown sn*t, pressure that travels from sinus to chest and back up to my head. Can’t taste anything for sh!t.

      Have you ever been tested for allergies? The can come and go as you age.

    • GRA

      I’m sure there is some medical way to know, but I start by taking Claritin for a couple days. If my symptoms clear up I assume it’s allergies and keep taking Claritin. If they don’t, I assume it’s a cold. Like I said, not medical advice, but that’s how I figure it out.

    • Clueless Summer

      Okay…this is gross, but it’s really the colour of the mucus that will tell you what it is. Clear or whiteish is allergies, likely, and other fun colours (yellow or green) would be a cold or sinus infection or something non-allergy. Not a doctor by any means, but that’s my experience. Also, itchiness on your skin or in your eyes is also a sign of allergies, ime.

    • Amy H.

      For me, allergies = hay fever, which means sneezing a ton, itchy eyes, and completely “squinched up” nose/eyes/sinus area. Runny nose sometimes, but the mucus is clear.

      A cold = sore throat, sometimes cough/tickle in my throat, and the mucus from a runny nose is more yellow-green.

  15. Anon

    Seattle shopping question: I am visiting Seattle soon and will be doing some maternity clothes shopping. I would love suggestions for consignment and other good shops. I grew up in the pnw so I am familiar with sea neighborhoods and outlying areas but have not lived there for awhile. I will also have a car and am willing to drive for a good spot. Thanks!

    • stc

      I used to live in Seattle but have moved to central washington and am 27 weeks pregnant. Recently I was in Seattle and visited one consignment shop in Madison Valley-I can’t remember the name (Sugar?) but it was right next to Birth and Beyond, a pretty neat shop on Madison and 27th/28th. I didn’t make it to any other shops, but I did get some ideas of places I wanted to check out by putting “maternity consignment” into yelp. I think there was a place in Ballard and in Greenwood I wanted to check out. Good luck!

      • Jane Fairfax

        My info is a couple of years old, but Sugarlump in Madison Valley had a great selection of higher-end maternity wear. Me ‘n Moms in Ballard had perhaps the largest selection of maternity clothes. I tried a few other consignment stores around Seattle that I can’t remember the names of, but was disappointed. Sugarlump and Me ‘n Moms were the standouts. Kids on 45th in Wallingford has nice kids clothes, including fancy pants newborn outfits with the tags still on, but I can’t remember if they carry maternity clothes or not.
        While consignment stores can be fun, and a good source of tops and occasional dresses, my experience was that it can be hard to find basics, especially pants, and if you do find them they have been worn to death. Most of my maternity clothes came from Target and J.C. Penneys of all places. My absolute favorite (if that can be said about maternity clothes) stuff came from the Loft’s maternity line.
        Also, be aware that for some of the cheaper brands like Old Navy, Motherhood Maternity and Target, the consignment store prices aren’t much better than what you would pay for the items new on sale, and there is always a sale.

    • Jax

      If you are going to be in Madison Park anyways I’d visit Fury. It’s not maternity clothes but it’s a great place to shop for clothes (consignment).

      • Ruby

        I love Fury normally, but they have zero maternity. I did get some wide, flat boots there and a new wallet recently though:) And I have an appointment next week to sell 30+ items to cull some room. They have excellent things, if overpriced. Similar is a shop in Columbia City now. And Take 2 on 15th (Cap Hill) is great. But not for mat.

    • Ruby

      This is my life right now. (7 mo preg). Best: Me n Moms in Ballard and Issaqah, Childish Things north of Ballard about 10 minutes, a shop on California in West Seattle (some googling will show name), Small Threads Issaquah. Disagree with the others, Sugarlump has about 5% of the inventory of these others (one small rack only). I got 90% of my maternity clothes in these shops and the other 10% in a shop in Vancouver Canada and a few Gap sweaters new. Good luck! If you happen to be shopping on the weekend let me know, maybe we can meet and I’ll pick up some stuff at a few for impending arrival.

      The ‘regular’ thrift shops don’t have much, but I live in Capitol Hill and over time have gotten a bunch of great tops at great prices popping into the Value Village here on 10th/Pine off Broadway- including 4 tops and a cami today. Little mat section by shoes.

    • Anon

      Thanks all for the great shopping tips. Will be shopping on a week day with my mom who, thankfully, has a great eye for cute finds and more patience than me for thrift store shopping. So these spots will be really helpful. Thanks again.

  16. Esquared

    TJ- Does anyone make “goals for the upcoming year” on their birthdays?
    I heard about this recently and love the idea, my birthday was a few days ago and I think it’s at a much better point in the yr to make resolutions than on New Years.
    I’d love to have a chart to follow or something and my own versions have been sucking all week (I want it to cover relationships, health, finance, personal education, job & personal)… any ideas or resources?

    • GRA

      I don’t, but I have a friend who – on every birthday – declares the coming year “the year of …” First it was “The Year of Cute Shoes” where she bought and wore lots of cute shoes, now it’s “The Year of Having People Over” where she’s entertaining a lot more. I think it’s a great (low key) idea and would love to adopt it myself.

    • D

      I like to make goals on my birthday, since I’m usually beat after the holiday season and not wanting to take on new projects (and my birthday is in spring). This year I did things a little differently. In addition to making challenging/personal improvement goals I made fun goals (similar to cute shoes) and set up rewards for reaching the challenging goals. This has made all the difference in the world! Also, I limit the number of goals and try to spread it out over the year in 4 month chunks.

      • D

        Oh, and I have my goals for the current 4 months written on a white board at home where I will see it everyday. I erase them as they’re completed.

    • Elizabeth

      I wish I could do this! But since my birthday is December 30, it’s a little redundant. I love the idea, however.

  17. anon@anon.com

    I want to get some lighter color shoes for spring / summer. I am thinking about getting some nude-for-me shoes but not sure how to work them into my outfits (my office has a formal/conservative dress code)

    What color suit can nude shoes be worn with? light grey, navy? With what color belt? Any suggestions?

    • Merabella

      IMHO I think nude for you shoes can be worn with anything – except black and dark grey. I would match your belts and things to the outfit, not the shoes. Since the shoes should match your legs pretty closely, it won’t distract from the outfit.

    • Jacqueline

      Black, definitely, and I think they’d look nice with navy. But they also work really well with brights (tangerine, teal, cobalt, etc.) — less “heavy” than a darker shoe and more seasonally appropriate.

    • meme

      Related question: when do you wear patent v. regular leather? Which do you wear to the office? I’m looking for my first pair.

  18. AIMS

    Ok, we talked prenups. Now let’s talk elopements!

    There is an interesting article in the NYTimes Weddings/Styles section on how couples are now having very elaborate “special” elopements – think fancy wedding, but minus the guests. I kind of find the idea really appealing. I know it may hurt some feelings, but I also feel like a wedding is about the two people getting married, not nec. their guests. One of the things the article talks about is how by not having guests, it becomes an incredibly special day for just the two of you. FWIW, I am not engaged to be married; am in a long term commited r/ship but avoiding the whole marriage thing altogether for the time being.

    So – thoughts? Experiences? For those that eloped, how did you handle the fall out with friends/family? I know a common thing is to elope and then have a party for family and/or friends after, but I kind of think this defeats the purpose. If I wanted to have a smaller, casual wedding, I would.

    • Esquared

      Also in a ltr and not planning on getting married for at least a few yrs. I hate wedding food, family discord and spending so much on 1 day… I think this is one of the reasons I am avoiding the whole wedding/getting married thing.
      This kind of wedding would be my absolute favorite thing– either that or just a big party. Unfort, I am outnumbered by my bf, my fam & his fam.
      EastSideBride has a lot of info on adorable elopements- http://www.eastsidebride.com/

    • Kanye East

      We eloped and made a little vacation out of it (for ourselves only). There was no fallout, but we had both laid some groundwork with our families, so I don’t think it was a total surprise when we announced it. Our families were nothing but happy (as far as I know). Zero regrets.

      We considered a party afterward, but in addition to defeating the purpose, like you say, we envisioned it quickly turning into the overblown wedding we wanted to avoid in the first place. If people can rein it in and keep things from spiraling out of control, more power to them. It just wasn’t going to work for us (and part of that was logistics; our families are a few time zones away, and we would have felt like a$$ho!es asking people to travel for us).

      • AIMS

        That sounds fantastic. How did you break the news to your family that this was the plan and they weren’t invited?

        • Kanye East

          I was always pretty clear with them that I’ve never been interested in a big wedding, so they knew what was and wasn’t important to me. Beyond that, once I told my parents we’d decided to get engaged, I dropped a few “don’t be surprised if we elope” kinds of comments.

          //Kanye shrug//

    • CW

      I love the idea. I wanted to elope and then have a party afterwards, my DH wanted a wedding. I felt (and still feel) that I would have liked the ceremony to be private. I am very open about a lot of things, but there are some things that I just do not want to share with people (such a personal vows). I think that my vows were watered down because I had to say them in front of other people. But, I would have wanted to celebrate that time in my life with others, post-honeymoon, hence my desire for a casual party afterwards. (Maybe that is really selfish of me – I don’t want people to witness my marriage, but come celebrate my marriage!)

      My mother was appalled – she thought I had an obligation to have a wedding.

      • anon

        Oh, honey, I am so with you. I wanted to elope so badly, but the spouse insisted on a wedding.

      • KK

        I was in this situation also! I wanted to elope, my husband wanted the wedding. We did the (big, expensive) wedding and, honestly, I don’t regret it. With hindsight being 20/20, here’s why I’m glad I didn’t elope, even though it would have been a million times easier:

        1. The wedding planning process really helped me bond with my in-laws and, having come out the other side, we feel more like a real family. It was horrible and stressful while I was going through it- there are all kinds of cultural and even language barriers that had to be dealt with. But it meant a lot to them that we did it (they really wanted the elaborate wedding) and now we have come through this stressful experience together, which was like a combo of teambuilding and family therapy.

        2. It was really, truly, nice to be able to start our marriage by celebrating with our friends and family and all kinds of people who would never be in the same room together except for this occasion. Ok, there were some people we barely knew, but who cares- they seemed happy for us anyway. I don’t think I anticipated how nice that would feel, to have everyone there for you and your marriage.

        Also, we left for our honeymoon the very next day so we didn’t have to talk to any family for like 10 days afterward and got to relax just us alone. So that helped.

        • CW

          Ha! My husband and I left for our honeymoon at 6:30 the following morning. We told family that they were on their own.

          I didn’t mean to imply that I didn’t enjoy my wedding – I did, and it really was nice to have all universes collide – but I would have preferred having a private ceremony and then a separate party with friends and family to celebrate our marriage.

        • Blonde Lawyer

          We also left on our honeymoon straight from the reception. Everyone was on their own! My inlaws rented a bus to transport all the out of town guests. It was a great add on and lessened the burden for out of towners.

      • anon

        I don’t think there is an obligation to have a big party (“wedding”) but for me a marriage ceremony does have at least a few witnesses or family/friends there.

        Traditionally, by marrying someone, you publicly vow to foresake all others — i.e. think hundreds of years ago, you stood in front of everyone in your little village and said “this is the one for me!”. By eloping, you’re skipping that key part of marriage, IMHO.

    • anon for this

      OMG that would be perfect for me. We have been engaged almost 2 years and I am sick of everyone asking when is the wedding. I am in no rush, I am happy just being engaged. Luckily my mom seems to care less, but I worry about fiance’s family wanting to be there and participate (one in-law doesn’t fly, otherwise, I’d just invite them to Vegas). . . at this point a small family and close friends party might be ok with me as long as no one tries to make it too wedding-y. I am close to 40, we been living together for 10 years and am not seeing myself in a white dress, so anything we do will be non-traditional as they say.

      • Can't Wait to Quit

        This may not be the case all the time, but often people will ask when the wedding is because they want to leave room for it on their calendars. My husband has a relative who has been engaged for a long while, and whose wedding will be one we do want/need to attend, but they haven’t set a date. We have asked a couple of times over the past 18 months, just so that if they do have something in mind we can hold the time for it. It would suck to miss it because we had planned something that we couldn’t cancel if we could have avoided the conflict.

        • Godzilla

          Dude, you’ve waited 18 months. Go ahead and live your life without feeling guilty for going on vacation. It’s just a wedding. Theirs. Not yours. Everyone’ll be just fine.

      • Amy H.

        The in-law that doesn’t fly can just drive to Vegas! Honestly, do what you want.

    • qwerty

      im south asian, our wedding are super overrated and neither me or DH enjoyed ours one bit. seriously, i have never even looked at or shared our wedding photos with anyone (even though theyre gorgeous and i went through a lot of pain to pick a photographer i loved). I just want to forget it happened. we would have loved to elope were it “socially acceptable.”

      • Ru

        Also South Asian and nowhere near dating/engaged but when I do bring up the fact that I don’t want a wedding, I wind up instigating yelling matches with my parents. If you are desi and want to keep in contact with your family, you apparently must have a 500-guest extravaganza. Oy.

        • qwerty

          blech. i really thought i lucked out with only 250+ and 50+ children i’ve never met. my wedding ended when my cousin’s son pulled a fire alarm in the 200 year old historic library we hosted our reception in. fire trucks showed up and alarms rang for a good 10-15 minutes during the time people were leaving. we couldn’t do a bride and groom’s exit because of said fire trucks blocking the entrance. both of my cousin’s sons were wearing sweaters with fire trucks on them. i wish i were making this up.

          • qwerty

            lessons from qwerty’s life: EVERYONE SHOULD ELOPE and never have fire trucks show up to their wedding!

          • qwerty

            thank god no and no photos either. our photographer got confused and decided to leave in the midst of it all, he may have thought this was part of the ethicness of our wedding.
            of course, i didn’t know who the culprits were for weeks, until someone told me it was the boys in fire truck sweaters. duh. i’m already hatching my plan to pay these boys back one day.

          • KK

            We went to a desi wedding the week before ours and a child who was playing in the aisle during the ceremony knocked over a pedestal that had an elaborate candle display, which fell over, hit her on the head, and caught her hair on fire. Seriously.

          • Bluejay

            @qwerty – when you’re an auntie and they’re forced to invite you to their weddings in 20 years, stand up during the toasts and tell this story. Perfect payback. :)

          • qwerty

            i had grander plans of pushing my little niece into a fire exit door and causing a debacle, but that might work too!

        • Rani

          I’m really hoping that being over 35 will mean my parents will just be relieved and I can avoid the hoopla. Of course, the opposite may happen, and they may feel the need to prove that YES they were able to marry off their odd daughter (kidding, kind of).

          Of course, this is all fairly hypothetical, I think, despite detailed questions from my sweetie about what kind of ring I’d like…

        • lawnonymous

          Question for those with South Asian weddings…

          I don’t have anyone to marry yet, lol. But my parents have always said that a) they will pay for the wedding and b) they want to invite people that have invited THEM to their kids weddings, regardless of whether or not I know them.

          I want to pay for my wedding myself. I honestly don’t want strangers at my wedding, but I think this will cause a lot of trouble somehow.

          • KK

            My husband is south asian, I am not. His parents invited everyone who had invited them to their kids wedding. It was ridiculous. His side had 300 guests, mine had like 70. But they were happy to pay for it– my parents never would (or could) have paid for such a thing.

            I’m not sure what your question was exactly, but if your parents are anything like my in-laws, yes it will cause a lot of trouble.

            We fought over it a little and ended up giving in a lot (they would have had 500 people if we didn’t draw a line somewhere). It’s not that big of a deal, as long as they’ll pay. You’ll only care about the people you know- the rest are kind of like extras on a movie set. It’s actually amusing to me that I’m saying this now because I remember being livid about it during the planning stages when we had trouble finding a venue that could fit so many people and wasn’t a convention center.

          • Bluejay

            I’m not south Asian, but the same applies in my ethnic group. You just have to suck it up. When you’re your parents’ age, you’ll understand. Not worth fighting and denying your mother what would probably be one of the happiest days of her life. Plus, you’d be hearing about it until the day they die.

          • qwerty

            in my view, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you will need to suck it up. if your parents fail to invite people who invited them to their kids’ weddings, it supposedly may cause rumors that something unsavory is going on. desis are big on the conspiracy theories. i take less issue with those people coming, i get it. it’s not so different from me making sure i invite all friends who invited me to their weddings even if we aren’t so close anymore. my big problem is that parents’ friends have 6 kids and assume they can bring all of them. and if those kids are married, their partners are apparently invited. and of course, i had no sense of head count…. grrrrrrrrrrr!

          • Eurogrl

            I’m from Europe and my husband is from a culture (not South Asian) where parents invite everyone who at some point in their lives was somewhat important to them, which for my in-laws translated to roughly 300 guests. Rather than spending tons of energy negotiating or participating in the planning of a wedding that wasn’t really going to be “ours,” we decided to have a ceremony in the city where we live (to which we only invited close relatives and friends) and a lavish party organized by my in-laws about a month later that was everything they wanted, except they may have wanted a more traditional wedding dress. I understand that this solution may not work for everyone, though.

            Hang in there… At the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is what you and your husband promise each other on that day.

      • Plus one

        Omg it’s so nice to know I’m not the only person who hated my south asian wedding!! We had 400 people attending and our house was crawling with relatives I’d never met before. My mom is the type of person who puts a guest’s comfort above her family’s and gave the room I was staying in to distant cousins (all the guests had the option of staying in a hotel, a lot just chose not to). I slept on the floor in my sister’s room with 3 other people the night before my wedding. I still don’t think I’m over it.

        • desiChitown

          Reading all these south asian wedding stories had me cracking up! I am nowhere near that phase, still in the shaadi.com horror dating cycle, but if I ever get to the mandaap I don’t know how I can put my foot down and deal with parents/gazillion unknown relatives with crazy kids etc. Eloping sounds ideal for this single desi gal.

        • KK

          Sorry I’m all over this thread, but just some advice for south asian brides: get a wedding planner! If you insist on only one thing, get a d*mn wedding planner who specializes in south asian weddings. That was the saving grace of our entire wedding and is the only thing that made it manageable. Our wedding ran smoother than any other desi wedding I’ve ever been to because of the planner- we started both the ceremony and the reception on time, no standing around. Everything was arranged ahead of time, so minimal last minute stress (and all of it could be handed off to the planner). If FIL decide 2 weeks prior to the day that he wants to serve mid-ceremony ice cream, he can take it up with the planner.

          If you don’t, either your mother, MIL, or some random relative you barely know (or even worse, all of the above) will designate themselves wedding planner and try to run the show. I have been to some nightmarish south asian weddings. A good wedding planner makes sure the couple’s voice doesn’t get lost in the crowd.

          • qwerty

            wow. great advice! i’m making mine sound more terrible than it was, DH and I really did our best to maintain control and kept our voices alive, but the whole thing just wasn’t our style. we are definitely the eloping and don’t tell anyone what we did until 6 months down the line type. so the spectacle of it was just awkward. the one good choice we made was to have our ceremony at a mosque one week in advance, only family was invited (cough, 50 people), but it made the reception of 300ish people bearable, because thank god all 300ish people weren’t there for everything…

      • N

        Mine was fine because it made my parents (well, my Mom) and my aunts very, very happy. I just showed up, said yes to everything (and trust me, the wedding was *so* not me!), picked the husband (very, very not South Asian), and tried to keep the peace between family members. I did get to invite everyone I wanted, didn’t totally hate anyone attending, and the stress was fairly low since my parents could afford the insanely expensive wedding they wanted to throw, and I really didn’t have any princess fantasies. I got an awesome husband out of the deal. Plus since then I’ve gotten to throw my own parties – my son’s first rice ceremony, parties for our own friends, etc., so I never felt like my wedding was my one shot to throw the evening of my life.

        Maybe it’s cultural, but I’ve never really bought into the wedding as an expression of the couple thing. For us, the religious part was super important (Hinduism doesn’t have a conversion, but my husband and I talked a lot about religion, kids, etc. long before marriage, and we both agreed that we would live and our children be raised primarily culturally Hindu, with exposure to certain Christian faiths as well, though not the Christian faith in which he was raised and later rejected). The rest of it was just a fun party for a lot of people important to us and to my parents. I might have chosen different decorations, and certainly a different wedding outfit, but hey, my friends and I had just as much fun with the open bar either way :-)

        FWIW, I don’t think it’s necessarily just a desi thing – I have a *lot* of non-desi friends (primarily Catholic, fwiw), who either have the same family pressure, or take my lazy bride route and defer to their mothers.

    • rosie

      We had a 150-person wedding, not super formal. We planned it together, and we were both pretty pleased with the ceremony and reception. I think our family would have taken an elopement pretty hard. Also, the idea of a fancy elopement never really appealed to me–if it was going to be just us, I’d rather just get married locally and be done. My family does have some drama, although for my wedding weekend, they allowed me to be blissfully unaware of whatever might have been brewing, so that was nice.

    • Leslie Knope

      I’d also love to hear about reactions after the wedding/elopement. For years, we’ve been set on a tiny wedding, with just our parents, siblings, and grandmas (12 people total). Weddings are not a big deal to my family, and his family’s social circle usually does these crazy 300-guest weddings, and I just can’t handle it. Has anyone ever done this? Did you find after the fact that people were offended? It’s not that I don’t want extended family to attend, it’s just that the list automatically swells to at least 100 guests with all the must-invites beyond the immediate family.

      • CW

        People will always be offended, no matter what you do. Seriously. They’ll be offended that you didn’t invite kids, or that you got married on a Friday night or Sunday afternoon because it was inconvenient for them, or that you weren’t properly appreciative of their unsolicited and unwanted advice. Not that I want to make light of taking people’s feelings into consideration, but at the end of the day, the people most invested in your wedding are you and your SO, and possibly your parents.

        A Practical Wedding {dot} com has some great posts about elopement and managing reactions.

      • Tuesday

        This is exactly what we did — the 12 people we felt had to be there were invited. Told everyone else we were doing just a small thing, on a Friday night. I don’t know of anyone being offended, but lots of people were confused. My grandmother did host a low-key luncheon for us about a month later for ~50 family members.

        The main reasons we did it this way were first, we couldn’t figure out a middle ground; it seemed to us it would either be 12 people or 200; second, neither of us wanted to deal with planning a big to-do; and third, neither of us wanted to spend a lot of money on the wedding — we’d rather spend it on a series of trips than on one big party, so we did, and we had three really good trips the year we got married.

      • Anonymous

        I think that it’s possible you will offend more people with a 12-person wedding than by just eloping. Part of the reason that eloping is so attractive to some people is because no one makes the cut. With a small guest list, it’s like the best friend who didn’t get invited is just not that special. Not saying it’s right, but just how it may be perceived. I still think you should do what you want to do, of course.

        I actually brought this idea up with some friends and was shocked by how outraged everyone got that I would consider not inviting them to my special day. I’m talking fury. One person said that, “you have a duty to do it for the people who love you,” another went on a tirade against small destination weddings because “not everyone can get away and they should get to see you get married.” Of course, all these folks had big weddings and now feel like I “owe them one” in return. The whole thing’s enough to just get married at City Hall and not tell anyone altogether!

      • Portia

        We did this – the only people invited to the wedding were friends close enough to be in the (5 person) wedding party, immediate family members, and grandparents. That afternoon we had a giant (informal, desserts only) reception for about 250 friends/parents’ friends/neighbors/extended family members. Given the giant reception this probably isn’t quite what you are envisioning, but we decided to limit the wedding because a lot of our extended family members on both sides were upset about our interfaith marriage and we didn’t want anyone watching the ceremony who wouldn’t be truly happy for us.

        The one thing that still slightly irks me was several of my husband’s high school friends decided to carpool down with the best man (the reception was about 45 minutes away from where husband grew up) with the intention of “just hanging out” until the reception started hours later. The hanging out turned into them inviting themselves to everything going on, and the upshot was there were a few people I barely knew at what was supposed to be a very intimate ceremony. I think that did upset my grandparents a little (why were people who professed to barely know me at the ceremony when I wouldn’t invite my own aunts and uncles?) but there wasn’t any major drama.

    • Merabella

      My DH wanted a wedding. I had about 130 people at my wedding, and I enjoyed it in the moment. HOWEVER, if I had to do it over again I would elope. On the other hand, I think the fall out from my mother would be epic.

      • anon too

        I could have written your post exactly (except change mother to “mother-in-law”, who still 3.5 years later is not over the fact that she was unable to invite 300 people).

    • Anon

      My husband and I were married by a notary public. No vows, no fuss. It took us 6 months to tell our relatives and friends, but made sure to tell each in person. No one was upset. We HATE weddings (ok I like wedding cake), so there was no way we were going to plan one. We took the money we saved and used it as a downpayment on a condo. Any regrets? My only regret is that I don’t have a wedding picture and we didn’t take a honeymoon.

    • Monday

      Wow, AIMS. You and I have a lot in common. Yes ma’am. Being married appeals to me in some ways, but having a wedding really does not.

      My issue is slightly different from yours, perhaps: I feel like so often, the couple is just asking so, so much of their guests/party/families etc. Every friend I’ve ever had who said she was going to do a “nontraditional, casual, laid-back” wedding has ended up throwing out every caveat one by one, until it was entirely traditional, and formal, and and expensive. And stressful! Even if I felt up for it, I think it involves a lot of unfair expectations from others. It’s counter-intuitive to me that people may get offended by not being invited to a wedding, because I feel like it’s the kindest gift I can give to all the wonderful people in my life! NOT asking them to do this whole slog for me!

      I feel I’d be honoring my relationships and my community more by going to City Hall on my lunch break.

      I feel that by the time in my life I’d be ready to make a commitment that serious, a princess-y dress would be completely inappropriate (and I feel that time has already come for me).

      I feel like I deserve the huge party when I’m celebrating my 50th anniversary, not the beginning of something that so often fails.

      I know this probably sounds cynical, and I really hope people don’t feel attacked. I attend weddings, and with joy for the couples. This is just how I feel about my own situation. My parents’ wedding may be influencing me too: it was ~10 people and my mom wore a navy blue corduroy skirt. But *ahem* at any rate may become an issue given that I believe someone else does not share this view…

      • AIMS

        Oh, Monday, we have more in common than even that – my parents got married with about a dozen people attending and my mom wore a brown dress. Eerie! :)

        I think for me, I also don’t have a big family to pressure me to have a big wedding. My dad passed away when I was in college and my mom is pretty easy going, so no one “expects” anything of me other than for me to be happy. I can also understand how I would feel differently if my SO (or his family) really wanted a big wedding, but he’s pretty easy going about it, too. His family isn’t huge either and his siblings have already gotten married so I feel like his parents aren’t hell bent on having that big wedding experience since they’ve been there & done that.

        In my former life, I totally knew I would have to have a wedding with my ex, and I knew exactly how it was expected to go, down to who would be presiding over the whole thing and which field we would all be standing in. Truth be told, I was okay with that, too – if for no other reason that much of it would be pretty easy to plan this way.

        But now, if I am going to do it, I just want to run away. And yet so many people will inevitably get offended, even though – as you say – it’s really not a judgment on them. Like you, I enjoy going to other people’s weddings and seeing how happy they are. I just don’t want that version of the happy day for myself.

        I like the 50th anniversary party idea much better — whether I get married or not, if Mr. AIMS and I make it through the long haul, I may end up borrowing that one from you :)

        I am really enjoying reading all these responses. Please keep them coming, you guys — it really is very informative to hear all the varied perspectives.

        • Monday

          Logo pant suit for your 50th anniversary party! :) I actually did like that point in the first SATC movie: that Carrie bought a vintage skirt suit for her wedding. It actually kind of “spoke to me” more than any wedding dress I’ve ever seen, i.e. “grown-a** woman doing me, on this day as on any other day!”

          On a more serious note, I’m sorry to hear about your father. Unfortunately that is one more thing we have in common.

          • AIMS

            Oh. That’s not a happy thing to have in common with anyone. I’m really sorry about your dad, too.
            ….
            Now, I am going to try to lighten the moment by conjuring the logo-ist most fantabulous pant suit in my mind’s eye.

    • Fiona

      We’re doing this! In three weeks! We’re getting married in Paris with just our parents, and then taking them out for an incredible dinner that night. I highly, highly recommend it. It’s not expensive (although we splurged on photography) and planning it has been really easy and stress-free. And it’s made us focus a lot more on the things that matter (like planning our honeymoon and how to combine our finances) and a lot less on the things that don’t matter (like whether our friends like salmon). We haven’t gotten any negative backlash — I think it helps that the guest list is only parents, so we’re not making any ‘cuts’ that could hurt people’s feelings. We have gotten a lot of positive feedback though – many people say they wish they could have done something like that but other pressures got in the way. If anyone is considering doing something similar, I say go for it 100%.

      • AIMS

        May I ask if you live in Paris? Or how far are you traveling to do this? I think it sounds lovely, but I am not sure I could handle a joint vacation like this. How well do your parents and your future in-law know each other already?

        • Fiona

          We live in Boston, and our parents haven’t met yet (New York and West Coast). We’re not doing the whole vacation with them though – just 3 days in Paris. My parents are taking a week-long trip to Italy beforehand, and his parents are spending a whole week in Paris afterwards. We’re doing a honeymoon around France for ten days after the wedding. To tell you the truth, I’m not *super* excited about trying to juggle both sets of parents in a European city, but it’s only for a couple of days, and they’re all so excited about the trip that it’s worth it.

          • AIMS

            Sounds awesome. Hopefully all the excitement will keep everyone happy. I am sure you will have a grand time. Congrats!!! :)

      • Anonymous

        This is very similar to what I’ve been considering – taking the family to Tuscany (both sets of parents, plus I have two siblings), renting a house for a week, and “eloping” there before continuing the trip as a honeymoon.

        The logistics kind of scare me though. How did you go about finding a photographer and arranging everything?

        • Fiona

          We hired a wedding coordinator to organize everything for us. She sent us a handful of options for each element (officiant, photographer, musicians, etc) and we picked whomever we liked best and she booked everything for us. We probably could have done more of our own research about vendors, but we are busy with other things and liked not having to do too much work arranging things.

          I found our wedding coordinator by looking at Paris elopement weddings on blogs that featured real weddings, and then seeing who was listed as the wedding coordinator. There were a handful of coordinators doing weddings that we liked, and we emailed three of them and the one we picked was the most responsive on email. I’m sure you could do the same for Tuscany — that idea sounds phenomenal, btw!

          • Anon 10:18

            Thanks – that sounds delightfully stress-free. Great tip on finding coordinators through blogs featuring similar weddings.

            Congrats on your upcoming wedding!!

    • cdaisys

      We did this and it was AMAZING!! We were married and stayed on a private island in Fiji and it was absolutely heavenly and totally relaxing. I hadn’t expected to do something like that because my parents had always somewhat jokingly told me I was obligated to have the big, fancy wedding, but when my dad left my Mom and married a woman not much older than me, that changed. I could not imagine having everyone at a wedding without it being more about them than me and my husband and my husband’s family didn’t really have an issue with it, so it was much easier to just go away. I still got to wear a fabulous dress and it was so special and all about us. If you can swing it, I highly recommend it.

    • Wedding Wedding

      So, threadjacking your TJ – what about anyone who has gotten legally married and had to wait to celebrate afterwards?

      SO and I have been together for a few years, and are ready to get married. For reasons outside our control, we will need to get married legally earlier than planned. I am fine with not having a party, and the courthouse being the whole shebang. However, SO has actually asked to have a wedding with all our friends and family and this is important to SO. Those who will come are coming from far away, and there’s not enough time for people to buy plane tickets, etc. Has anyone had to do this before? Did you tell your friends and family you were already legally married? I’m afraid people will be disappointed if they find out this is the second party. Thoughts?

      • rosie

        I would definitely tell people you are legally married. They might be disappointed, but imagine how bad it would be if they found out that your second ceremony was fake and they were being tricked. Have a party to celebrate your marriage.

        • Wedding Wedding

          I think part of the reason why this is important to SO (and the more I think about it to me), is because the whole idea of a wedding with your friends and family is to make a commitment and say our vows before them (making a promise, asking for their support in completing that promise in the years to come). So to that extent, I do not think the ceremony would be fake. However, I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

          • rosie

            I think that you can still commit to each other publicly and say vows, and that sounds lovely, just don’t mislead people about the legal implications. If anything, I think being upfront about already being legally married emphasizes how important it is to repeat your vows in front of everyone you love, if that makes sense.

          • ELS

            My now-husband and I did this.

            We were planning to get married this upcoming summer, but due to some unforeseen circumstances, I needed to be on his health insurance earlier than that. We ended up having a courthouse wedding, and invited those who could be present to attend.

            We’re also planning on having a second ceremony this summer (though more subdued than originally planned) in our own backyard this summer. We’re inviting the friends and family we wanted to have attend the first two this second ceremony.

            But for reasons stated above, we’ve told everyone that we’re legally married already. I don’t think that the second ceremony we will be having is “fake,” but it felt dishonest to lie to those that I love most about being married. I told them as we were planning the first (random Tuesday) courthouse wedding what was going on, and why. I also told them that it was important to me and my then-fiance to have them there as we said our vows, and that we’d have a second ceremony that would be just as (if not more) meaningful than the second, though it would have no legal significance. No one has seemed disappointed or upset by this explanation. I think it’s really all in how you bring up the topic.

          • Blonde Lawyer

            ELS,

            It makes me so sad and angry that people have to marry for health insurance in the US. I really wish our system could change, and quick!

          • anon

            Maybe you could have something like a church confirmation of your marriage? I was married in a civil ceremony, and a year later my husband and I had a sacramental marriage ceremony in the Catholic Church. We did not initially get married in the Church because we were waiting for the Church annulment of his first marriage. It’s a long story as to how that came about, but that’s not relevant here. Anyway, maybe you could do something like that, if you want a religious ceremony.

      • Go for it!

        A good friend of mine was in a similar situation and had two weddings (one courthouse, one church). She changed her name right away, but I don’t think they wore wedding rings until the church ceremony, which happened about a year after the courthouse. I think everyone who knew them understood that they needed to be legally married earlier (green card issues), and we were glad we got to celebrate their marriage with them. Now they get to celebrate two anniversaries, so I think it was a win all around :)

        • Makeup Junkie

          I’ve been to a “second”, traditional wedding months after the first, legal one that was held in a courthouse somewhere. It wasn’t that big of a deal because everyone knew the couple was already married and why (like the poster above, green card reasons). Like your situation, the traditional wedding had to be planned carefully to accommodate overseas guests.

      • Blonde Lawyer

        My friend did this. One was a courthouse wedding right before a military deployment. The second was a Catholic wedding when he returned. For them, both were real. One was civil and allowed her spousal benefits. The second was religious and made them married in their churches eyes. His deployment was sudden and unexpected so they just pushed back the traditional wedding and had the courthouse one right before he left.

      • ShortieK

        My dad and new step-mom did this earlier in the fall. My brother and me picked out a small caked, a family friend came for dinner and brought the paperwork, they exchanged vows and rings, we opened up some champagne had the cake with coffee after dinner.

        Two months later, they had a wedding in the backyard with a pitched tent and all the relatives from both families present. It was really sweet and pretty fun… dance party on the deck and a mock football game with the kids) The bridal party (me and her oldest niece) wore gold, the bride wore light blue, and I helped my dad pick out his tie right before the ceremony. It really made me rethink how I would want my future wedding (my step-mom leaned out the screen door and yelled “are you ready?” before sending out the flower girl), really simple and low key.

        That said, none of my relatives know (my step-mom’s sister might) that they were legally married before the wedding. I don’t really think it matters- they wouldn’t have done anything different if the paperwork hadn’t been signed earlier, the same family friend officiated both times. But if you’re questioning about whether people would feel hurt, you should decide now to never tell or just come clean. ;) Nothing wrong with calling it a “reception or exchange of vows.”

      • Liana

        My sister wound up having to do this — doing the legal civil ceremony with just witnesses earlier than their planned wedding because she was planning to move to the Europe with her now-husband and needed to be legally married sooner for immigration purposes. They kept it under wraps and really consider their real wedding the one celebrated with family and friends, and that’s the anniversary date they celebrate. The other is just the formality they needed to take care of so she could move with him right after their real wedding.

    • Amy H.

      DH and I both have large extended families and both of us are very close to our families (picture 30-40 people together every Christmas Eve just on one side). For me, most of the reason to *get* married was to make a public commitment in front of all our beloved family and friends, and to have a family reunion/big party to celebrate. So I’m probably on the opposite end of the spectrum from people who should be responding to this . . . .

      One thing that was very important to me — we included in our ceremony a part where the officiant asked the community assembled (all our guests) whether they would give us their love, support and encouragement in our marriage and asked them to pledge to hold us close to their hearts, and they responded, “We will.”

      • brooke

        I feel similarly. The marriage is all about the couple, but the wedding is about the larger family and the bonds they all share. Weddings in my (southern, not so well off) neck of the woods tend to involve family and friends pitching into help make the food, decorate the venue, etc., so it’s not a crazy costly affair, even if there are >100 people there.

    • Praxidike

      My husband and I eloped. I am from Jersey, he is from Wisconsin. His family is massive, and mine is tiny. I did not feel it was appropriate for my father to spend a shitload of money just so a ton of his cousins could come to our big party (let’s not even get into the issue of why they needed to come – ridiculous).

      At any rate, we decided to elope, drove to Vermont, got married by a Judge on the shore of Lake Champlain, and then vacationed in Vermont for a week for our “honeymoon.” We then went back to Jersey and threw a big “party” for our friends/family, and then did the same thing in Wisconsin shortly thereafter.

      It was a wild success. The wedding, vacation, and parties all cost under $7k, and my father gave us the money he “would have spent” on the wedding as a gift. I regret nothing. I look at women who have big weddings and who are so stressed out and I think, “Should have eloped.”

      • ELS

        This is similar to what happened with my husband and I. We’re having a second small party/ceremony at our house for friends who were unable to come to our courthouse wedding.

        The deal with my parents since I can remember is that they’d rather spend the money they had set aside for my wedding on something that was more practical than throwing a big party, especially given that I’ve never been girly. In the end, our courthouse ceremony for 10 and the fancy dinner after cost less than $1,000, and Dad gave us the rest of the money he had set aside as a gift that we ultimately used to supplement our down payment on a house.

        I’m not saying that people with large families or who have always dreamed of a big wedding shouldn’t have one. But that was not the situation for me or my husband, and honestly, it’s been the best decision I’ve ever made. I thought briefly about having a “real” wedding, and the thought of the whole thing made me so anxious I can’t imagine having ever actually planned one.

    • Nosy Nellie

      AIMS, sorry for being nosy but, but did I miss a post and there’s a wedding in your future? I ask because some of your posts that have really stood out for me are about how you and your SO were permanently committed without needing or wanting marriage. (Forgive me for badly paraphrasing your much more nuanced posts).

      • AIMS

        Haha, you are totally correct and phrased it perfectly. No wedding in the future. But on reading that article, I realized that a large chunk of my opposition to marriage is the wedding and all the hoopla surrounding it, not the institution itself. So the idea to get away and have this awesome one on one ceremony made me think twice about my options. Not committing to actual wedding yet, mind you, just considering the alternatives. Luckily, Mr. AIMS is the type of guy who just wants me to be happy, so he’d go along with either plan.

        I think I still ultimately don’t think it’s necessary to get married, but society does make it difficult to choose this route. As an instance, we’ve both had to make wills to ensure what would have otherwise been routine. When we have kids, I think all those things will be more and more cumbersome, so I am just trying to weigh my options.

        Anyway, thanks for inquiring and paying attention to my ramblings – I am totally touched that anyone would be “nosy” ;)

        • anon for this one

          I am late to the conversation but I just wanted to share my experience – 1 year after my father died, my mother eloped without telling me – only my younger brother (who still lived at home at the time) knew. I have to admit that I am still hurt…so elope, yes, but at least let immediate family know?

          • Anonymous

            I know I’m late as well, but I wanted to chim in on what “anon for this one” just said. I would have loved to elope but DH has 2 sons who were 9 and 11 when we got married. To not have them at the wedding would have really damaged our relationship with the boys.

  19. Sarah

    Can we discuss watches, ladies? I’ve never worn one regularly before, but I want to start. I really do need to know what time it is most of the time, and checking my phone constantly is neither convenient nor polite. I have a couple of hand-me-down watches, but the big 3-0 is coming up and I’m to the point in my career where a nicer watch is expected/appropriate – but I have no idea what’s “in” now. Suggestions? The only requirements I have is that it be something that’s timeless, if you’ll excuse the pun, tasteful, and suitable for someone with very small wrists. Go!

    • noon

      If you haven’t, try searching past threads, because I know we’ve talked about it. Try “corporette.com: watches” as a google search.

      Otherwise, my pick was Skagen. Multiple metal color options, slim profile, has mesh band that is infinitely adjustable (although I have the one with links and also have small wrists), but can have a little bit of bling. You can find them at Macy’s and on Amazon, and they are in the $70 to $150 range, depending on the discount.

      • NOLA

        I have three Skagen watches and I was going to suggest that. They are slim profile and professional-looking. I have a basic one in silver, one in brown mesh with some amber crystals, and a totally blinged-out one that my Dad bought me for Christmas that has a mother-of-pearl face and crystals around the face (that’s obviously not the professional one).

      • Anonymous

        One warning on Skagen – the crystals on the super slim ones with the mesh band have a tendency to crack extremely easily without any seeming outside catalyst.

    • Mo

      I have a Rolex Ladies Oyster Perpetual in stainless steel I received for my law school graduation. I’m not sure they still make the smaller one without a date, but that is the one I have and prefer. Glad I bought it before the oversized men’s watch thing became a trend because I would have been tempted to go big.

      My mother and grandmother had the same one, so I think it withstands the “timeless” test. It is definitely an “investment” piece, but my mom’s is still running after daily wear for 30 years.

    • Clueless Summer

      My favourites are definitely not investment pieces – more trendy, fashionable pieces but definitely a nice watch. I love Michael Kors watches which are very common and popular right now. Kate Spade also has adorable watches right now that I would love to get to supplement my regular Michael Kors ones.

    • qwerty

      i have a rado cerix that i received as a law school graduation gift. i had worn watches on and off in the past, but since i received this i wear it every weekday (weekends are for fun, so no watch needed).
      I hope this withstands the timeless test, my mom has the same one (but hers has diamonds) that she bought maybe 5 years before i received mine (I helped pick hers out so family knew i would like it). I also bought the same watch in the mens version for DH as an engagement gift (funny, i picked it out for him before i received mine as a gift but after it had been purchased for me). clearly, i love the style. and all 3 of us wear the same watch daily.

    • TCFKAG

      I’m not a watch person — but if I remember correctly (and if you have a high budget) — past discussions have concluded that Chanel is classic and forever. :-P

    • Ru

      I love jewelry and wanted something solid that didn’t with my random fits of bling. I got a slim Movado watch made of stainless steel with gold accents. I never take it off – sleep, shower, etc. It’s really low-key and surprisingly indestructible – there’s no scratches on the glass at all.

    • Nonny

      I also have very small wrists. My “everyday” watch is a Bulova that my BF gave me – I really like it because it is not too big or showy, but looks timeless and has tiny diamonds on the face. It goes with everything. I did have to get about 5 links removed from it, but that’s par for the course.

    • Timeless

      My father gave me a Baume & Mercier tank watch for college graduation (25 years ago!). I still have it. It is still gorgeous. It still runs (obviously). It still goes with everything. Sadly, now that I left private practice, I no longer wear a watch, so it sits in a drawer loved and admired but not worn. I expect it was expensive, and I don’t know what your budget it, but if this is in your budget I highly recommend it.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I have an ESQ which was recommended by the readers here, that I also got for my big 3-0. I got it at a Movado outlet for WAY less than retail and was able to get a much nicer one for that reason. Check your local outlet.

      • Ruby

        I wear a Citizen Eco-Drive (powered by solar/fake light) petite silver-colored one. Love it. Not overly fancy, but works well enough for me in my corporate setting. Could use a higher end at some point, but to me something small is key- tiny wrists, look silly with regular-sized ones. And I love the solar thing. Was a gift but I think under $200.

    • Divaliscious11

      My everyday watch is a Tag Heuer, my dress up watch is a Cartier tank, and my wish list watch is a large face Rolex. I have a couple fun color rubber watches for the beach/water park or when I want to do something fun.

    • Leigh

      My tastes might run rather sportier than yours, but I have a Casio G-Shock mini that I absolutely love. (It’s a black GMN-50.) Unfortunately, Casio doesn’t seem to sell them anymore, but you can still find the Japan limited edition from ebay seller ogt-clan. I mention the Japan edition because it’s apparently 30% smaller and fits my small wrists perfectly. It’s the only watch I’ve ever had that was possible to fasten too tightly! (My wrists are 5.5″ and 6″ around, but the watch fits either of them.) I seriously, seriously love this watch.

      Also, this is probably not a problem for you, but the GMN-50 is a combo analog/digital watch, which I love because I think digital watches are ugly, but I have difficulty reading analog watches.

    • EK

      My favorite every day watch is a victorinox with a leather band. Looks great under suits or with jeans, and I’ve gotten compliments on it from complete strangers on the subway and in restaurants. For good deals, I suggest outlet malls. My watch retails for $400 and I believe I got it for about $80.

  20. Janie

    I have a friend, “Amy,” who is super competitive with me. We are both in relatively prestigious careers, but hers is private sector and mine is public, so she makes a LOT more money than I do. Whenever I talk about successes – in personal life or career – she always has to point out how much money she makes either by talking about an expensive vacation, maxing out retirement savings, or (ugh) volunteering the exact amount of her bonus. I’m so sick and tired of this – I feel like she is trying to make me feel like a l

    • Janie

      Sorry, posted fuller below. That’s what I get for trying to use my new phone :)

  21. BlueSky

    A questions about career changes..

    I have always wanted a career in law but took a job in finance after I graduated in order to pay my massive student loans from ugrad. I don’t love my job and I am not challenged by it. It isn’t horrid, but not great and I am good at what I do. I have finally paid off my student loans and have built a substantial cushion for emergencies, and have a good size nest egg already for retirement. Would I be completely crazy to leave my job and go to law school? I would only realistically consider this option if I had could attend a top 20 school.

    I worked in a firm briefly and loved it but the economy has changed so much since then. Even though I don’t love my job now it is secure and pays the bills. I can’t decide if it is worth pursuing something I am interested in or just be grateful for what I have and try not to screw it up. My husband has said he will support me either way.

    • Esquared

      You should check out part time programs that allow you to work/go to law school at the same time. I think what you described above is the ONLY reason someone should attend law school. Much better reasoning than, eh just graduated & have no idea what to do with my humanities degree (doh).

      • RussiaRepeat

        But part time programs are almost impossible to get jobs out of. I think someone on a thread yesterday was having that problem–you’re not available or on the right schedule to do the summer associate thing.

        • Unless

          …you move in to an attorney position with the company that you work for while you attend a part time program. Industry knowledge + experience + law degree. I know many people who have done this. And I’ll add that they attended T3 schools.

          • Esquared

            I know a lot of people who have done this too. I think the point is also that there is less pressure on you to find a job because you already have a job and can make the transition more slowly & hopefully are in less debt because you’ve maintained a salary.
            If you also have a science bg (I’d guess no from the comments above?) then there are some firms & companies that will pay for your ed & let you work with them as a patent officer & then transition to an attorney position afterwards.
            I’m just saying that in this situation, there are non-traditional ways to keep what you have & pursue your dreams at the same time.

    • viv

      Congrats on paying off your loans! I’d ask yourself… why law? If you don’t like your job that much, there are other possibilities that would involve less risk, time, and investment on your part. I would research other career options as well.

    • TCFKAG

      I don’t know — you just got out from the burden of massive undergrad loans, I’m not sure I’d jump right into massive law school loans. Not unless you really, really want to be a lawyer (or you can go without a great deal of debt).

    • anon for this question

      Working in a law firm and being a lawyer are 2 decidedly different things. Talk to some friends of yours who are lawyers (or post questions here about “day in the life” of the type of lawyer you want to be). Only after you have a real understanding of what it’s like on a daily basis would I suggest taking the plunge. I’d also suggest reading some books on what’s like to be a lawyer (there’s one I think called “The Happy Lawyer” or “How to Be a Happy Lawyer” or some such thing that I thought was pretty insightful). Law school is a huge investment of time and money with no guarantee that it will pay off in the end.

      After doing your homework, if you still decide you want a career in the law, then I say–go for it!! I wouldn’t let your age or the fact that you already have a career hold you back.

    • KLG

      I definitely think going to law school after having worked a few years is the way to go (I pretty much went straight from undergrad). But that being said, I worked in a law firm all throughout college and loved it. But when I worked there out of law school as an attorney, I realized that billable requirements, not being able to control my schedule, etc. made me miserable and I actually hated being a lawyer even though I loved the people there and the law in general.

      I certainly would not discourage a career change (especially if you did school part time as Esquared suggests) but I would try to talk to some attorneys your age and see what they think about the pros and cons of their jobs and do some research about what the average law school graduate really makes. For every classmate of mine who came to law from another career and then eventually went back to their original career, there is one who is still a lawyer and loving it. It just kind of depends on your personality and the legal environment you find yourself in.

  22. Janie

    I have a friend who is super competitive with me. We are both in relatively prestigious careers, but hers is private sector and mine is public, so she makes a LOT more money than I do. Whenever I talk about successes – in personal life or career – she always has to point out how much money she makes either by talking about an expensive vacation, maxing out retirement savings, or (ugh) volunteering the exact amount of her bonus. Ive tried giving her the benefit of the doubt that its just coincidental and she doesnt do it to make an expli it omparison but at times its too obvious. Eg, I say I’m excited to max out my Roth and she says, that reminds me that I should invest my bonus of $x. I’m so sick and tired of this – I feel like she is trying to make me feel like a loser, but it just makes me want to retaliate by pointing out the aspects of her life that are a mess but going great for me. I try not to do that but I can’t say I’ve always been the greatest friend either. She just got engaged this week and is prob going to ask me to be MOH and I’m very conflicted because we are such frenemies sometimes. How do I break the cycle?

    • Emily I

      Why the heck are you telling her you maxed out your Roth? My friends and I have a vague idea of what each other’s financial situations are, but we don’t feel the need to talk about money like that. Maybe we’re weird?

      • CW

        People can really vary about what they do/do not feel comfortable sharing with other people – I have a girlfriend who never talks about money, ever. I have no idea what her financial situation is. But if I were excited about celebrating a financial milestone, I would probably share that with a close friend who also didn’t have a problem talking about money.

      • PharmaGirl

        Same here. I have only discussed money with friends on a very superficial level and only with friends who I know are in the same income bracket.

      • anon for this question

        Ditto! Don’t talk about your success in funding your Roth if you don’t want her to share her successes too.

    • Walnut

      Stop talking about work or money with her. If there’s nothing else to talk about then it is possible you’ve both outgrown the friendship.

      I’ve made it a practice to cut back on spending time with people who make me crazy.

    • viv

      If your friend talks this way about money to everyone, she is probably making enemies left and right. So obnoxious! But are there things you really like about her? Does she have positive qualities you appreciate such as loyalty, humor, an adventurous spirit, great listening skills, etc? Decide how much her friendship means to you. It would be unfortunate to break off the friendship at such an important time in her life, especially if you don’t give her a chance to change. I think most people will annoy you in some way if you get to know them well enough, so it’s a matter of speaking up about the things that really rub you the wrong way so they know it bothers you.

    • elz

      I agree with Emily I, I have never discussed my finances or salary with friends. Unless she is your financial advisor, I think you need to shy away from red light issues like finances.

      I think maybe there is a bit of perception making all the difference here- you perceive that she’s competitive with you. What if she isn’t? She would probably prefer to talk to you about who is hotter-Stefan or Damon (Damon, FWIW), or a new book or politics. If she’s your friend, give her a chance and FTLOG, change the subject.

    • CW

      I think you need to reign in how much you discuss money with her. Maybe she is jealous about the areas of your life that are going great (and not so great for her), and is trying to one-up you by pointing out how much money she makes. Or, maybe she thinks that because you’re sharing financial or career successes that she can do the same. But I think it will be better for your mental health if you either curtail the money discussions, or try to be genuinely happy for her that she’s maxed out her 401k, took an expensive vacation and gave away her bonus.

    • Jacqueline

      This is challenging, but I think you can break the cycle. I’ve gotten in a couple of awkward money conversations with friends — in some, I felt like I was the one who inadvertently took the conversation to a too-intimate level, and in others, I was shocked at how much the friend revealed to me (her and her husband’s exact salaries, debt, etc.). In the future, I stayed away from discussing money and let her take the lead if she wanted to bring it up again. Try to just avoid these topics entirely, and if they come up, change the subject or say you’re not comfortable discussing financial/money stuff right now. I know this is easier said than done, but I do think you can start to guide the conversations into a new direction when they become uncomfortable or competitive.

      • Jacqueline

        Also, I do have one friend that (I’m pretty sure) makes around what I do, and we have very similar approaches to finances, budgeting, and investing. She’s kind of my “safe” friend for these topics — we’ve talked about retirement goals, savings plans, and yes, maxing out Roths (I feel like a huge dork for admitting this, but I just wanted the OP to know she’s not alone in discussing this stuff with a friend). It works in this friendship because a) we don’t discuss exact numbers and b) neither of us is competitive or feels uncomfortable. If either a) or b) changed, I’d reconsider talking about these topics with her.

        • Esquared

          This– I wish my friends would talk more about money & money education. I’m hungry to find out info on how they maximize what they make, not because I’m jealous, but because I think it’d be great to be more financially literate and to learn from them.

    • cc

      To be honest with the one example you have I can’t tell who is being competitive. It sounds like you say a financial accomplishment, she says one in response. It doesn’t seem like one upping to me. She volunteered the exact amount of her bonus, but your telling her about your Roth. I would do like the others suggest and try not talking about financials and see where it goes.

      Unsolicited but- could a bit of jealousy be coloring your interactions with her?

    • Janie

      OP here – that was probably a bad example. We talk about money in a semi-theoretical way regularly, like investment strategies, best brokerages, etc. She’s the only friend that I’ve ever discussed this stuff with (in part because we go way way back). The greater context of the Roth discussion was that I was sharing that I had just gotten a raise at work but decided not to celebrate by spending it because I was banking it towards the Roth. That’s when she busted out the bonus number – which is more than what I make a year (and she knows that). Why could she not just say, “That’s great, I’m also happy because I just got a big bonus and I also decided to save it!” Why did she have to put a number on it?

      You guys are probably right that I should just stop discussing money with her, period.

      • CW

        It sounds like she stumbled on the friend front with the bonus issue, and I think she could have handled that better. But I do agree with the above comment that it seems like you might be struggling with competitiveness and jealousy too, and to be fair to your friend, it seems like you have not had previous issues with the income disparity between the two of you so she might not realize that she was being insensitive.

        • Jelly

          Yeah, this was my thought too — she is insensitive, you are too sensitive. I don’t think she’s a jerk.

      • anon

        Yikes, if her bonus is more than you make in a year you might want to consider not being her MOH simply due to the costly expectations she may have!

    • springtime

      If you do think she is doing it just to make you feel crappy about yourself, why don’t you just say “that’s great” and continue with whatever conversation you were having. If she wants attention, don’t give the attention.

      It might just be that she thinks since you opened the money-conversation door, she is free to discuss her money issues as well. The biggest thing is not letting it get to you- she can think whatever she wants, but she can’t control your reaction.

      This is coming from someone who was raised in a well-off household and has had the reverse happen- comments like “oh well some of us don’t have $ amount in loans to pay off so it’s not as complicated” (I didn’t have loans- but I never told anyone; people just assume after awhile and getting to know my background). I just ignore it. I don’t really know what I could respond with that wouldn’t sound mean . I think sometimes people just get frustrated and say comments they don’t really mean to be cruel.

    • Kate

      I had this same issue with a friend of mine I had known since I was 16. She acted exactly as you describe and was a total one-upper. The final straw was when I met my husband and was finally happy in my career and relationship, she stopped talking to me. I realized then she only wanted me around as long as she felt like she was doing better than me. I cut off all contact with her despite our 10 year friendship. I wish I had done this sooner. I realized after spending time with her I felt worse about myself and why have a friendship like that? I say drop her and make new friends that support you and make you feel good about yourself.

    • anon

      Regardless of the source of competitiveness (her, you, both), it sounds like an emotionally high maintenance friendship – which will surely be heightened in a wedding context where you’re MOH. Could even ruin the friendship for good. I’d try to find some way to tell her you’re honored that she asked you (if she does), but you can’t and would love to be involved in some other way. (I have no idea how I’d actually phrase that, though).

    • M-C

      Sounds like it’s time for a friendly breakup.. Start by begging your way out of the wedding (work, other engagements, whatever) or at least any prominent place in it.
      Do try to think about ways you may have encouraged this vicious cyle though, as others have said. Competitive may be a good quality in a lawyer (sometimes), but it’s certainly not a good quality in a friend. Try to separate work and life better?

  23. Amanda

    I actually love the Nanette Lepore blazer that Kat linked to. It’s pretty! Not ok for a conservative office, but would be fun for the weekend.

  24. Legally Brunette

    I’d love some ideas on vegetarian, yummy and easy dinners to make for a dinner party. I enjoy throwing dinner parties but always end up making very elaborate Indian meals which take forever. Any ideas on making a great dinner that I don’t have to spend the entire day (or two) slaving to make? Links to specific recipes would be fantastic. Thank you!

      • Legally Brunette

        Thanks ladies! I should have added that H is not a fan of mushrooms, so any recipes without mushrooms would be great. That ziti looks yummy though and perhaps I could just omit the mushrooms?

        • Jacqueline

          Thanks ladies! I should have added that H is not a fan of mushrooms, so any recipes without mushrooms would be great. That ziti looks yummy though and perhaps I could just omit the mushrooms?

        • Circe

          You could also sub chunks of some meat substitute (Field Roast/ Garden Burger /Morningstar Farms) which have gotten really good lately.

      • Another S

        This eggplant parmesan rolls recipe is one of my favorites. I always leave out the mint though.

    • TCFKAG

      How about a nice vegetarian chili (I like a five-bean chili with a side of corn bread).

      Another good party option is vegetarian lasagna (there are a billion options) — you can prep it ahead of time and throw it in the oven before guests arrive. Serve it with crusty bread and a salad and you have a nice meal!

      • Esquared

        You must be my food town, this is exactly what I’d suggest, Veg chili (great as a dip too) or Veggie Lasagna using the non-boil lasagna strips.

        • Esquared

          * food twin.
          BTW, this is my recipe for veg chili, it is easy and delicious. I make it at least monthly & freeze it in baggies for a hearty and healthy lunch. It’s a mix of my grandma’s recipe mixed with the America’s Test Kitchen recipe. You can also add onions & other veggies, but I don’t like onions & am too lazy to put in the other veggies:

          4 cans of beans, rinsed (15.5 oz., mix of red kidney, pinto & black)
          3 cans diced tomatoes (1 or more of them can be the kind w/ diced chilis included for extra spice)
          1/4 c. chili powder
          1T. cumin
          6 garlic cloves, or equiv jarred
          2 T. vegetable oil (I always just use olive cause it’s what I have on hand)
          1 c. water

          Put all of the above into a huge pot, bring to a boil, cover & then simmer for 30 min (longer if necessary for a more solid texture).

          I’ve seriously used whatever I have on hand to make it, and it always turns out amazingly.

          • TCFKAG

            Dude — we are food twins, because I’ve made that exact recipe many times (though sometimes I use some other beans if I’m in the mood).

            :-)

    • karenpadi

      Weekly Greens (google it) has some excellent vegetarian/vegan/gluten-free dishes. She isn’t a vegetarian but dang! the recipes she posts are really good.

      • D

        Herbivoracious (also goggle) has vegetarian recipes ranging from easy comfort food to gourmet.

    • SouthAsian

      If you’re not entertaining desis, I’d say “regular” Indian food would be the way to go. Something simple like daal, rice and a bhaji with random veggies I found in the fridge usually work out just fine.

    • AIMS

      Check out the NYTimes Recipes for Health section (in the Health section). Not all vegetarian but plenty of options, and all delicious. Many can be made in advance.

      One of my favorites to make for a group is Pisto Manchego, which is kind of like a Spanish ratatouille with eggs. You can make it all in advance and then just throw in the oven with the eggs right before serving. Add a few sides/salads and some great bread, and you’re good to go.
      http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/21/health/nutrition/21recipehealth.html?ref=summersquash&gwh=B533A3F488A65EBABCEFA3ACEB8512D0

      There are some great stews and pie recipes too.

    • eek

      Since the weather is getting so nice, this is a great side dish…(Aunt) Ina Garten’s shrimp and orzo salad (minus the shrimp). She calls for a lot of dill, so if you don’t love dill, hold back!

      http://tinyurl.com/7uswhcc

    • Mo

      Happy Herbivore has lovely vegan recipes. Specifically her lasagna roll ups, chickpea teriyaki or smokey black bean enchiladas would work well for a dinner party.

    • Laura #2

      This always takes a little longer to prepare than I think it will (still, it’s not much over an hour), mostly because I have not found a speedy way to peel/chop butternut squash. If you buy it pre-peeling and cubed, this would probably be much faster: http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/Quinoa-with-Moroccan-Winter-Squash-and-Carrot-Stew-233714

      This recipe isn’t vegetarian but I’ve made it vegetarian by subbing vegetable broth for chicken broth and increasing the vegetables – I want to say by 1.5x but I honestly just eyeballed it:
      http://www.lundsandbyerlys.com/Recipes/Recipes/A/African-Peanut-Butter-Stew.aspx

    • M-C

      If Indian is your default of choice, let me recommend the recent “Easy Curry” by Madhur Jaffrey. Simple, delicious, fast. Her best book, as far as I’m concerned, and I’m a fan from way back.

  25. Jacqueline

    Ladies, I’m searching for the holy grail (for me) of flats: metallic or neutral color, pointy-toed, and ideally with a very small sliver wedge heel. I currently have a pair that I’ve literally worn into the ground, but I haven’t found any others I like to replace them. Has anyone seen any cute pairs lately?

  26. Zombiue Bombie

    I’m looking for super-soft and super-comfortable pair of flats for commute to work. I may have a 1 mile commute each way in another two weeks and was wondering if y’all have any suggestions.
    I wear formals so black (or nude as it’s getting warmer?) would be perfect.

    Also, any tips to avoid smelly feet? I feel I may end up with one considering a 2 mile walk both ways.

    • Makeup Junkie

      You can stick a sheet of Bounce in each shoe at night to absorb odor.

    • Bluejay

      I usually wear FitFlops in warm weather and Danskos from their Sausalito line in cool weather.

    • Anonymous

      One thing I’ve found to avoid smelly (and sweaty) feet is to only buy leather shoes with leather linings. For whatever reason, my feet sweat like crazy in shoes with synthetic linings and are much more prone to smelling. I don’t have either of those problems with leather on the outside and inside.

      • M-C

        It’s not at all a problem with your feet, it’s a problem with synthetics…

    • StLaz

      New Balance has a dress shoe line called Aravon – which I’ve found to be comfortable. Other brands for flats with support have been Rockports and Hush Puppies. I have hard-to fit feet, so I’ve long since lost the details – though I will buy a few pairs when I find a winner.

  27. KimV

    I have a problem that is a bit gross but it is affecting me professionally. My hubby tells me constantly that I have bad breath. I have an excellent sense of smell usually, but really can’t smell it. Sometimes I even wonder if my hubby is playing an evil mind game with me!! I have gone to the dentist and mentioned it to him and he didn’t confirm or deny the bad breath but told me to buy a weekly mouth wash but to use it daily. I of course floss and brush my teeth and the tongue (can’t manage the back of tongue due to gagging) and use all kinds of breath mints and spray. I am so self-conscious about it and when I meet with other people, I try to have a desk between us so I can keep my distance. Has anyone had halitosis like this and found a cure?

    • NOLA

      Do you still have your tonsils? If you do you could have chronic infection in your tonsils that is causing the smell. I have heard that using a Waterpik to clean the tonsils can be effective if you don’t want to have them removed. Have your tonsils out as an adult is a pretty awful experience.

    • SouthAsian

      Bring it up with your doctor. In my very limited understanding, mints, sprays and mouthwashes can actually make it worse. It could be indicative of a different health problem.

      • M-C

        Totally. It could be tonsils, sinuses, digestive.. At least now you know it’s not an overlooked tooth problem. I’d second the recommendation to be weary of mouthwashes, which can seriously disrupt your normal bacterial flora.
        And if the husband’s bitching, enlist him in a diagnostic process, have him tell you when it’s worst and keep a diary of it, so that you can try to detect what may be associated with it.

    • anon

      I have the same problem, and I don’t have any surefire solutions, but you might want to check into whether you have an acid reflux problem, because they can be linked (that’s part of my problem, I think). Also, try upping your water-drinking – halitosis can be caused by dehydration.

      Thanks to NOLA for the tonsil tip, I’m going to look into that, too.

      • anon for this

        You’re welcome! I had acute tonsilitis while studying in Europe during college and my tonsils became severely pitted as a result. After that, I always had infection in those pits. Having my tonsils out as an adult was challenging, to say the least, but one of the smartest things I’ve ever done, in terms of my overall health.

    • Jane Fairfax

      Did your dentist mention gum disease? My hubby is a dentist and he swears that he can tell if a person has gum disease just by talking to them; he can smell it on their breath. Another frequent culprit is the tongue, tongue scrapers work really well for this, if you can get past the gagging. You can also try Xylitol-based gums and mints; they have been shown to reduce plaque and bacteria levels. You have to use the Xylitol products pretty regularly affect bacteria levels though.

    • mamabear

      I don’t know if this is you, but when my husband goes on a low-carb diet, he has terrible breath. Like, he can be on the other side of the kitchen and his breath will knock me out while we’re talking. When he has this, no amount of brushing or mouthwashing will help, and his doctor acknowleges this is a common side-effect and can’t be helped.

      Of course, my husband could stop going on low-carb diets and pretty much has stopped, but guys love those diets – eat steak all week and lose 10 lbs ? Yes, please.

    • Walnut

      I’ve had the gamut of nasal issues and use many of the suggestions below to keep fresh. I also suggest brushing post lunch and scrubbing your gums, roof of mouth and tongue briskly. One way to tell if your breath smells is to lick your wrist and then smell your wrist. I can’t smell my own bad breath, but I can smell it on my wrist.

      • KimV

        I do smell my wrist and it smells totally fine to me! So it makes it more frustrating because I don’t know how bad it is!

    • Anon for this

      Same problem, no solution, and I just don’t stress about it. I’ve seen the docs and have conditions that may cause it. I treat them. I use good oral hygiene and try to keep a respectful distance when talking w/ people. You have to be pretty close to smell someone’s breath. I figure if it were bad enough, someone would have taken a stick of gum/mint for themselves and offered me one. That hasn’t happened recently at least.

      I will also eat something that smells good before having to talk to people. The effect of toothpaste doesn’t last more than a minute on me but I can still smell orange on my breath an hour after eating one.

    • anon

      This is gross, but you may have tonsil stones. I get these. Basically, for whatever reason, some people’s tonsils have crevices. Natural secretions can calcify and over time create these things called tonsil stones in the crevices. They are whiteish or greenish, and smell terrible. You may be able to see them in the mirror if you open your mouth wide and your crevices are big enough on the surface of your tonsil. But the thing is… you can kinda push the stones out of your tonsils with a gentle finger push on one side of the crevice opening, kinda like popping a zit. Do it carefully to avoid triggering your gag reflex. I have to clean my tonsil stones out about once a week. I saw an Ear, Nose and Throat doctor about them, and he said it was better for me to clean them out periodically instead of getting my tonsils totally removed, since tonsils are a beneficial not-organ for most people, and it’s always good to avoid surgery if possible.

      Sorry ladies, that was super, super gross.

      • NOLA

        Ha! That’s what I was getting at above (I had them) but I couldn’t bring myself to write what you did. My former boss had them, too, and her doctor told her to use a Waterpik to remove them. For me, having my tonsils out was a better choice.

        • Supra

          This happened to me, but only once. I could get them out by contracting the back of my throat against the tonsils. It was both fascinating and gross.

          Any idea as to why it would happen once and not again? Random infection?

        • eek

          I get these occasionally and had no idea they are a real thing – thanks, ladies! I looked em up and prefer to call them tonsilsloths, rather than Tonsilloliths. Anyway, mine appear at random, just looked up it might be related to post-nasal drip. ugh. The human body is so weird.

    • Anonn

      I get random acid reflux issues, and whenever I get a good run of heartburn, my breath is terrible. Like even the hubs can’t take it terrible. Lots of water, a trial of prilosec, and carrying around those listerine pocket packs does the trick.

  28. b23

    Hey, ladies. I looked at the past “Tales from the wallet” post about retirement savings, and some people mentioned doing some sort of back-door approach to a Roth if you make over the limits. Can someone give me some details on that? How does it work? And in reeeally simple language. I know embarrassingly little about financial terms.

    Thanks in advance!

    • CW

      I actually just did this, in response to the post. If you have a traditional IRA (one that is pre-tax money, like a 401k rollover), you and your spouse can contribute up to 10k per year, and then practically the next day roll it over into a Roth IRA. You will owe taxes on this conversion.

      I spoke with my financial advisor, and he said that he recommends this to people around our age (early 30’s) because you’re essentially betting that your taxes will be higher in the future (and from the two financial advisor friends that I’ve talked to, they assume taxes will be higher when we go to retire).

      • CW

        Just as a follow up – you will owe taxes at your marginal tax rate (.

        I’m not a financial wizard at all – so if anyone knows how you do this with a non-deductible / post-tax IRA contribution, I’d love to hear it.

    • Jelly

      I just did this last week, all electronically. I waited until I had $5K to spare (so was keeping paychecks in checking). Then I went to my Vanguard IRA and told it to take $5K from my checking account and put it into the IRA money market fund. $5K disappeared from checking the next day, but it didn’t “really” hit my IRA until a full week later. (I think this is because that way Vanguard can play with my money for a week and has more cash to gamble with — it can’t possibly take seven days to e-transfer. But I pay low fees, so not the end of the world.) As soon as it hit (I checked every morning), I did buy-and-sell, and I transferred from my IRA to my Roth IRA. That took another day to clear. Since the IRA money was in a money market fund, there is basically no gain when you transfer to a Roth. I did this in 2011 and had a whopping $0.06 of gain on a $5,000 investment when I transferred from IRA to Roth IRA — thus no real tax consequences, since I transferred quickly and from a low-yield investment. Once the money goes into the Roth, it is in a real stock/bonds sort of account.

      If you don’t already have a Roth and regular IRA, you have to open those first, but that doesn’t take long online, either.

      • Tuesday

        Jelly, I think you should double-check on the tax consequences. As I understand this, it’s not the taxes on the gain, but the taxes on taking something out of pre-tax and putting it into post-tax status.

        So (depending of course on your total income and particular situation), if you contributed $5k to your regular IRA, that would be a $5k tax deduction. If you then take that $5k and roll it over from your regular IRA to a Roth IRA, the rollover amount is counted as income, and you have to pay taxes on it. I don’t know exactly how the rollover tax is calculated, because my accountant did it for me.

        Again, this is how I understand this, and I’m not an accountant.

        • Jellyfish

          Correct, the $5K I contribute is from my after-tax income. But all that means is that I can’t exclude $5K from my AGI because I’d put it into an IRA. I don’t owe any additional tax on the contribution, I just lose the deduction of the contribution amount (I think for 2011 it was Line 32 of Form 1040). Since I assume I will be in a higher tax bracket at age 59.5 (whether because taxes have gone up or because I will be earning more) (also because I would like to know how much retirement money I have at any point, and this way I don’t have to subtract tax owed from the value of my accounts), I would rather exclude this $5K now than $5K + gain on investment in 30ish years.

          However, if I put $5K into my IRA on 1/1/2012 and then roll it over into a Roth IRA on 12/31/2012, and between January and December it goes up by 6%, then not only can I not deduct the contribution (adding $5K to AGI, as discussed above), but I must also include the 6% gain that is being rolled over into the Roth in my reportable income for the year (an extra $300, probably STCG although not sure about this — not an accountant). That is why I have the IRA as a money market (not much gain/loss likely) and also why I roll over “immediately” after contributing (not much time for gain/loss to occur).

          Cf. rollover of a 401(k), where if I told my employer to put my money into a 401(k) and then rolled it into a Roth, my employer wouldn’t have withheld on the contribution or reported it as taxable income, and I would have had to remember to add it on my own. There might be other consequences, too — I haven’t ever considered doing this, so I haven’t investigated.

          • Tuesday

            That’s a great explanation. I misunderstood your first post — sorry ’bout that!

            (That’s also why I let my accountant do the work for me!)

  29. J. Crew Q

    I just saw a great suit at J. Crew online — and it’s online-only — so I’m wondering if anyone’s tried it yet and can give me an idea of the fit: the Bureau skirt and jacket in linen-canvas (posting link separately). I’m a size 10/12, with a pear shape, but tend to do well in J. Crew shift dresses (usually sized up, then taken in at the top) and the No. 2 pencil skirt. TIA!

  30. Eleanor

    I just had a phone call with a consultant for a client. So, he is not my client, but he’s working closely with my client. We were the only two people on the call, and during it he called me first “honey” and then “sweetie.” I was so taken aback all I could do was clear my throat loudly. We have never met in person, though we have been on conference calls together. In retrospect, I’m angry at myself that I wasn’t collected enough to respond (calmly) somehow to let him know that wasn’t ok. Has anyone ever come up with a good response to a situation like this?

    • Tuesday

      “Please don’t call me that.” Lather, rinse, repeat.

      If you sound angry or offended, they think you’re the problem. If you clearly state what you want, with no rancor, they have nowhere to hide.

    • TCFKAG

      Some people in the past have said they have had success by sarcastically calling someone in reply “sport” “champ” or something like that.

      But, is he southern? If he is, I might let it go — especially if you don’t have to interact with him much. But if not, you could also just be prepared next time and just calmly say, “You know — not even my husband calls me ‘sweetie'”. Or something like that.

      • DC Association

        Or…maybe he is gay? Don’t mean to stereotype, but many of my male gay friends call females and other gay males “honey” and “sweetie” all the time….

        • Eleanor

          He’s not gay, because he mentioned a wife and children (which was normal in the context of the conversation). But now that you mention it TCFKAG, he is southern, though I am not. So maybe he didn’t mean to be demeaning. At any rate, the suggestions above are good ones. Definitely I realize it’s important not to get angry. Thanks all!

          • anon

            My (female) boss is southern and it took me ages to realize that when she called me sweetie, it was just b/c of the southern thing and not to be patronizing–even though it still feels this way to this East Coast born, West Coast raised woman.

          • Coach Laura

            How about: “Please call me “Eleanor” or “Mrs. Roosevelt” or anything but “Sweetie”! ” said in a light-hearted way?

          • a.

            Yeah, if he’s southern he really doesn’t mean to be demeaning you–it’s just how folks talk down here. But if it bugs you I agree that you should say something (“Please call me Eleanor”); a proper southern gentleman would be happy to accede to your request.

          • Leigh

            Yeah, it probably wasn’t meant condescendingly or anything at all, but if you explain that you’d rather he didn’t call you that, I’m sure he’d try not to.

            I say “try,” because sometimes these things slip out without the speaker noticing. It’s just how we talk down here.

    • Echo

      I do think it’s regional and meant with good intentions. However, it’s not incredibly professional, and if it makes you uncomfortable, it’s important enough to be addressed. Perhaps a polite, casual question about his background– “‘Honey?’ Would you happen to be from XX?”– would do it.

      I’ve found Long Islanders similarly use “kid,” not to be demeaning, but affectionately.

  31. momentsofabsurdity

    Tonight I am going to see the Hunger Games and wearing literally the tallest pair of heels I’ve ever owned. They’re boots, they are adorable (Aldo Sproles, if anyone’s interested) and they make my legs look a million miles long.

    They are also about, oh, 5in high!

    Cross your fingers that I don’t trip!

    • KC

      To a clumsy, tall girl who can’t walk in heels to save her life, I’m in awe. Good thing you’ll have plenty of sitting time to rest your feet ;)

  32. Advice?

    One of my employees went over my head and sent an email to my boss’ boss’ boss’ boss. It, of course, trickled back down to me. The email was odd and slightly unprofessional; it included a request on behalf of some foriegn investors that he ran in to to visit our local office. Boss’ boss’ boss’ boss is in another office. I think that he was trying to earn points for bringing in investors but it backfired (and I have been forbiden to discuss it with him for now). My boss’ boss wants to meet with me to discuss consequenses, becasuse this sort of (but not exact, and not to this level) thing has happened in the past. In the words of someone else, the employee thinks he is more important than he is. Any thoughts on how to deal with this?

    • ss

      You’re probably correct in surmising that your employee has stepped on a few toes in the corporate hierarchy but probably best to take your cue fr the boss’ boss when you meet. Does he see an opportunity for your firm and encourage further referrals ? Does he see a disciplinary issue and discourage further stray emailing by junior staff ? There may be room for you to say something sensible like ‘the kids were well-intentioned but maybe we aren’t clear on protocol in these situations – perhaps we should put out a communication to please discuss referrals with your line manager first’.

      Don’t mention anything to the employee – at best, it distracts him from his actual job, at worst it makes him feel even more important than he already does.

      If your own boss isn’t already in the loop, consider mentioning it to him, as a courtesy.

    • M-C

      I’d definitely put your own boss in the loop.
      You probably shouldn’t worry too much, because what to do will all be decided by the time it gets to you :-). But be prepared that most likely you’ll be the one to do the actual work, like meeting with the employee and telling them why they’re being written up.
      Incidentally, you should not overlook that you were being personally insulted here, he basically said you were not competent to pass on that info. So don’t be a carpet about it, or you’ll have repeats. Repeats which are not good for you, as they imply that either you’re so lacking that your employees feel compelled to go over your head, or that you’re unable to control them. Take it seriously, for your own sake..

  33. VA

    Baby litigator here. I’ve been assigned to write my first brief – a motion to dismiss. I’m feeling very overwhelmed by the practical elements of how to do this…legal research and writing trained me to research and make arguments (and I can do that fine), not practically handle a case IRL. Are there any very practical straightforward, step by step guides that you litigators would recommend? Is there a litigator’s handbook of real practical tips / step-by-step of how handle law practice?

    Help! Thanks in advance.

    • Former MidLevel

      Ask the partner you are working for if he or she has any precedent for you – i.e., any examples of motions to dismiss in the style they prefer. There is no one “right” way to draft a motion to dismiss (or anything really), and the partners you work for on different project might have different ideas on style, format, etc. You will save yourself a lot of time and effort by working off an example that suits the partners’ preferences from the get-go.

      • SAlit-a-gator

        Go on your firm’s server, type in “Motion to Dismiss” and see what hits you get. Read a couple of them, preferenbly ones signed by your partner, and get a flavor for the style and format of these motions. Then just make a list of the reasons why your matter should or should not be dismissed and then plug-in these in the formats you find. Of course you’ll need to review and edit as appropriate, but you should not freak out. It’s not productive.

    • AIMS

      I get a NYSBA journal and this judge writes a pretty comrehensive column that covers many basics. Some of it can be found here: http://works.bepress.com/gerald_lebovits/doctype.html
      Also, try googling his name, NYSBA and “the Legal Writer.”

      I would also look to see if your firm has some old/template briefs. If you have access to westlaw/lexis, they have loads on file.

      From personal experience, avoid spending a lot of time on the motion to dismiss standard – everyone knows what it is, just incorporate it in a concrete way to make your argument. The worst briefs I’ve seen spend too many pages quoting boilerplate without much actual application.

      Also, don’t neglect your statement of facts – it’s your chance to tell your side of the story and present a coherent narrative to the court.

      Also, avoid any hyperbolic statements. It’s always more persuasive to say “this should be dismissed for X reason” than to say, “Clearly, this motion must be dismissed.” Too often, lawyers just make grand statements without explaining the reasoning behind it.

      Don’t forget to check the individual court/judge rules for specifics. Get a checklist for what docs need to be attached (in NY, the Lexis New York Civil Litigation book is good for this) … maybe post your state so that someone can recommend specific resources?

      • D. Ct. Clerk

        This is all great advice. Especially re hyperbolic statements – whenever a lawyer says that something is “clearly” the case, I cringe and assume that the exact opposite is true.

        • Esquared

          For real, SCOTUS is guilty of this over & over again & it drives me nuts… it’s like, how can you say it is obvious when so many different courts have disagreed!?!

      • VA

        AIMS, thank you SO SO much for that link. Those articles are exactly the refresher / guidance I needed.

        Thank you to everyone else as well! I do have samples of motions to dismiss that the associate provided, as well as a general framework of how to argue this. A lot of your comments/suggestions were things that were floating around in my head as possibilities, but this gives me encouragement that I’m on the right track and where to definitely look into.

        I really appreciate this community – even when I feel too nervous to admit to an associate at my firm that I feel overwhelmed, I always feel comfortable asking for the advice/guidance/encouragement here. You are all awesome.

        • AIMS

          Happy to help. I am a big fan of that column, so happy to spread the word. I am sure if you’re putting this much thought into it, your brief will be fantastic.

    • AnonInfinity

      Are you being asked to handle the case by yourself or did someone just ask you to write the brief? What kind of place are you working?

      I am also a baby shark. I’m gradually being given more and more responsibility on cases, but I find that talking to more senior associates and partners has helped me TREMENDOUSLY with strategy-type questions. I’m not sure if that’s what you’re asking?

    • Jules

      This is all excellent advice. You also can ask your secretary or paralegal for any examples or templates for similar pleadings; you don’t need to reinvent the wheel on the format, the applicable standards for an MTD, etc. When I first started practice, even after a trial court clerkship, I was clueless about the basics about how a document should be formatted, where it should be filed and with how many copies (pre-ECF) and the like, and the litigation paralegal in my firm at the time really helped me out.

      I also agree on the hyperbole; once you’ve done a first draft, comb your brief for adjectives and remove any of them that sound flowery, overblown, arrogant, snarky . . . you get the idea.
      (And also look out for cliches and inadvertent howlers; I got a draft brief from an associate not long ago that atrributed our client’s attendance issues at work to the fact that she had experienced “a series of unforunate events.” Lemony Snicket much?)

      • Blonde Lawyer

        I might be missing the context of this but what is wrong with saying “following a series of unfortunate events?” Much better than “after one too many nights of hard partying…”

        • Leslie Knope

          Blonde Lawyer–there’s a popular set of children’s book called “A Series of Unfortunate Events.” It was also made into a movie recently.

          • Jules

            Exactly. And if you have read all 13 books out loud over the course of many many bedtimes, you can’t hear that phrase any other way.

          • Anon

            I know this phrase only too well. I once facetiously used it in an early draft and then forgot to remove it from the final report. To this day I sometimes wonder if anyone ever noticed.

            Lesson = learned!

    • SF Bay Associate

      In CA, we love the California Practice Guides, available for both state and federal jdx. Not sure where you are, but something like that would be awesome. I imagine all the big states have similar practice guides.

      Be sure to check the local rules and the local local rules as well.

    • anon

      Check your local court rules for format, page number, TOC requirements. Our local rules require us to deliver a copy of any brief directly to the judge, and if you don’t do it, the judge doesn’t read it. Check for things like that. As others have said, look at some old briefs that have been filed. We are able to search all of the documents saved in our system for key terms, like “Motion to Dismiss” and “personal jurisdiction”, and “Bob B. attorney” would pull up any Motions to Dismiss on personal jurisdiction with Bob’s name in the signature line. You might be able to do something like that.

  34. Another S

    Thank you to whomever recommended Summer Soles last week (and posted coupon codes)! Verdict: I agree, they are great.

  35. LALaw

    Cole Haan threadjack: I have several pairs of the Talia mid pump heels from Cole Haan. A few weeks ago, the heel broke on one of the shoes. There appear to be some sort of seam near where the heel connects to the bottom of the shoe (there must be a weak spot, as the break is pretty clean). I called Cole Haan and they sent me postage for the shoes so I can mail them back and get a gift card for the most recent sale price (which I am sure will be lower than what I paid for them, but I got a good year’s worth of wear out of them). Today, the heel on a second pair (same model, different color) broke in the exact same way. What gives? Is this a problem others have had with this particular shoe? Is it possible that I walk in a way that is bad for this particular shoe? I’ve never had this happen with any other brand.

    • Equity's Darling

      I had the same problem- so I haven’t bought any Cole Haans since then. The same heel broke over and over, even after paying to ship it to the Cole Haan store in Toronto to have them fixed, etc. I’ve just taken it as a life lesson, because as comfortable as the shoes are, if the heel breaks once every 4 months..well….it’s too much of a hassle.

    • ChristinaMD

      I just had this happen for the first time to a pair of CH heels, while I was at a conference at the beginning of the month. I actually took them into the local store just this morning, and they are replacing the heel under the restoration program. I had to pay $30 but given what I originally paid for them, having one of my favorite pairs of shoes back in rotation was worth it. Additionally, the store manager threw in the heel and sole service ($80) at the cost of the heel only service ($30) since, in her words, that should never have happened.

  36. cc

    The “don’t tell” advice about cheating got me thinking. What are the circumstances that would make you think you should tell, and what are the ones that make you think you should not tell.

    I was surprised when most people said not to tell. It was not the first time with that person, it seemed more to me like the beginnings of an affair, but most said not to tell. Are there situations where you would give the advice to tell? Would you want to know if your husband was cheating? What about the situation like that, if he went back to a woman he had previously had an affair with?

    For me, that would be the last straw so I would want to know, which I realize means in an self preservation world, he shouldn’t tell me. Just curious where people feel that line of tell/dont tell falls. (or should one just never tell?)

    • anon

      I think one reason to tell or not to tell depends on whether the cheater wants to remain in the relationship/marriage. (This also depends on your partner – for some it’s a deal breaker, others may be willing to work it out.) A friend cheated 2x on em’s spouse and my friend told because em wanted out, while the spouse was willing to forgive. So I think there is no hard and fast rule.

    • mamabear

      I missed the earlier discussion, but generally, you don’t tell if the only reason you’re telling is to ease your own conscience. If it’s a one-time event and not the beginning of a relationship with the other person, then telling is only going to hurt your partner and make him feel suspicious of you when there’s no reason to be.

      We all mess up, we’re all human, and as they say, a kiss is just a kiss.

      • cc

        I guess Im not in the kiss is just a kiss camp. If my SO was kissing with someone else, I’d be very upset. And there is a reason to be suspicious… you’re cheating on your husband. I guess I’m wondering when people do tell. Is it just when they are on the way out then?

    • anon

      If there is any chance your spouse will find out, then tell them before someone else does.

    • Woods-comma-Elle

      I would want to know if my SO was regularly getting it on with someone. If he went out on a night out and got very drunk and kissed someone and can barely remember it and it wasn’t going to happen again and he wanted to stay with me, I would rather not know.

      That’s just me, but I know that I have in the past ‘fallen off the wagon’ and there was no point telling the other person (e.g. I cheated on a boyfriend just before we broke up, there was no point telling him as we broke up anyway and it would have just upset him more).

      Sometimes, though, the emotional can be worse than physical – e.g. if you meet someone you really click with and you would want to date them/sleep with them, that can be worse than a random kiss in a bar even if nothing happens. I don’t think I’m explaining this very well…

  37. Anon in doubt for this...

    Please excuse the essay, I have to get it out somewhere ;)

    We recently had a round of interviews for summer interns at my job. I know one of the interviewees, as we worked together as summer interns in another workplace about 5-7 years ago during our undergraduates. (Essentially, she had a permanent job between undergraduate and master’s, whereas I did them in one go, resulting in me being a couple of steps ahead now, despite being younger.)

    I wouldn’t say we’re very close, but close enough that we grab a coffee together every six months or so when we’re in the same town for some educational/career chatter. I’ve also been helping her as a sounding board when she is preparing for exams and looking over a term paper for her. Presumably, because of this, prior to the position being advertised, I was invited to her 30th birthday party which will be later this year, which I accepted back then (and have incorporated as part of my holiday)

    I excused myself from her interview because of this (and also because I know that when I am talking about people I know, I can get very “defensively positive” about them, and not bring out flaws, and I end up giving the wrong impression to my boss, so it was easier to not go into that at all, and let her stand on her own two feet.) – and only participated in the remaining candidates’ interviews.

    From what I gather, my former coworker was not bad, but two of our other candidates stood out as much stronger overall. Both my supervisors who were present at the interviews agreed on that, and I agreed that the two we chose came across as quite good for the tasks we have (one of them, my supervisor mentioned as a candidate for future employment with us, and she’s got incredibly high standards.). I didn’t say anything with regards to my former coworker as we did the overall summing-up of the candidates as I hadn’t been present during her interview, and my own experience working with her was so long ago.

    I don’t know if my former coworker knows that I was present for the other interviews, or what she expects from this.

    I am planning on attending her birthday party, and remaining in contact with her as I’ve been up until now. I don’t plan on mentioning anything about this to her, unless she brings it up. And then, I would probably go with what I said above – the other two were simply stronger.

    I don’t think I’m expecting anything here in any way, but if anyone’s been in a similar situation, it would be good to get other opinions. .(Although it is probably too far down on the weekend thread for that… )

    • mamabear

      Huh. Then what is networking for, exactly?

      If I were your friend and we’d worked together, I would expect you to put in a good word for me. I wouldn’t expect you to lie about anything about me, but yes, if you did think highly of me, I would expect you to advocate for me.

      So unless you really do have mixed feelings about the professional qualifications of your friend, I think you were a little to reticent about participating in the process on her behalf.

      • M-C

        Agreed.
        As long as you say loud and clear to others involved that you know this person and are still friendly with them after working with them. And make an effort to distinguish the personal from the professional. And as long as this is someone you do respect professionally, and would like to work with again.
        In fact, you have no idea whether the other two were stronger, as you over-removed yourself from the process. Do you have so little trust in your own judgement?

    • Bluejay

      I think you did the right thing, at least under my employers’ ethics standards. If she asks, you can tell her that each candidate was evaluated based upon their interview and resume, and that you weren’t able to take part in the evaluation of her interview and resume, but the two candidates who were selected came out with a better evaluation than she did (duh) and leave it at that. And honestly I don’t think she’ll ask. You didn’t interview her and she won’t assume you know why she didn’t get the job. I certainly wouldn’t ask if I were in her shoes.

    • Flamingo

      I agree with mamabear that in general, if I had sought out someone’s advice as much as this candidate sought out yours, I would hope the person would advocate for me (as long as you were confident in my abilities). Given your concerns about being overly positive, I would hope that at the very least you’d say “I know this candidate, she has actively expressed interest in the position and is very qualified” or something to that extent before excusing yourself.

      If she does bring it up, I’d suggest mentioning to her what you said here (she did well, it just wasn’t in the cards, you didn’t participate in the interviews) so she has some feedback.

    • SpaceMountain

      What is the ethical problem of interviewing and helping someone you know? If you think she’d be a good intern and you know her personally, you should speak up. Employers like to hire people who are known and well recommended by folks on the inside. It improves the process and helps everybody. It’s not like she’s your sister or your spouse, which would be obvious conflicts, but I think this is basic networking.

      • Bluejay

        Under my company’s policies, we can recommend someone we know as an applicant, but we can’t take part at all in the interviews or evaluation of their application. I think it’s an ethical problem to interview someone you know (with the exception of internal candidates or someone who is a purely professional acquaintance) and if I were applying for a job I’d feel I’d been treated unfairly if I lost out to someone who had been friends for 7 years with my the interviewer. I don’t think networking is just another word for friendship, which seems to be what many of these responses suggest.

        • Flamingo

          Bluejay – I agree with you that the OP was absolutely right to excuse herself from the interview because she knows the applicant. However, if she is confident in the applicant’s abilities, she could still do an informal recommendation when her application came in (if she is confident in the applicant’s abilities). Per the OP’ she “didn’t say anything with regards to my former coworker”.

          I can’t help but think that if the OP has known the applicant for such a long time, and can’t bring herself to at the very least say “hey I know this person, this was my experience when I worked with her at X way back when”, then there must be other concerns.

    • Eurogrl

      I was in a similar position recently, where a friend was interviewing for a very competitive position. It was somewhat uncomfortable because I wasn’t sure my friend was a great match, although I’m quite sure nobody at work ever detected my doubts. When my friend applied, I made sure his application was considered carefully, which may have helped him get to the interview stage. I also tried to help him prepare for the interviews, telling him what to expect and what people were looking for, but I didn’t have the impression that it really sunk in. I didn’t attend his interviews and didn’t vote on him or attend the meeting in which the hiring committee reached a decision. The committee rejected him, apparently because the interviews went poorly.

      When my friend contacted me after he was notified, I tried to impress on him that it has taken many people, including myself, several tries to break into this field. I also said that I didn’t know the details about the reasons for his rejection, and recommended that he reach out to the program head to get feed-back as it might help him if he wants to try again. Not suprisingly, he never did.

      Having been on the other side of the situation as well, I think if your friend is open to it and you’re in the position to offer it up you may want to give more specific advice that will help her think through some concrete things she could do to improve herself as a candidate.

  38. Exposed Zippers

    Thanks for all the input, yesterday (or was it two days ago?).

    Last night a picture popped in my head. I was standing in a train station in that skirt and some turd walks up behind me and unzips it and I am standing there in my underwear… so I will never get a skirt like that, bwahahahaaaa!

  39. Thanks Bluejay

    Hey Bluejay, I appreciated your post about people using mental illness terms too loosely.

    I get told that I have OCD on a regular basis because I want stuff done a certain way. It’s not like I freak out if someone makes a mistake. I say something if it happens repeatedly, but that should be expected. I also give reasons for my “demands” (Do A in such and such way because I will have to do B and C with it and it’s easier if it comes in a specific format).
    I’m starting to get seriously irked by being told that I am obsessive because of that.

  40. anonymous

    If I was a size 9.5, I would definitely go buy these spiked flats: http://blog.closetboston.com/

    Am I the only one obsessed with consignment stores? I love expensive clothes, but just don’t have the cash to buy them new….

    • Thrifty Lady

      I currently shop pretty much exclusively in thrift and consignment stores. Unless I need an interview suit or something down that aisle or find something on the 75% clearance rack.
      I just never find shoes because of my size… but I barely find shoes period.

      I started a “poor girls’ day out” with some of my friends when we realized that we all needed a shopping trip but nobody could afford it.
      We meet during the “no rent but paycheck” weekend and hit local thrift stores. My favorite thing so far is a 100% silk blouse from The Limited with the tag still on for $5. We even started a facebook group to let each other know of great deals… and to brag a little about the things we found.

      That might be something to consider with friends in your area. If we see something we think would be great for someone else in our group we post it there.

      • Ruby

        I get vast majority of things second hand. Many reasons. Generates less waste/extra throw-away crap in the world. Easier to find petite sizes. More interesting variety of things than one store. Like being in consignment stores better than big stores- hate their size, lighting, music, pushy sales people, pushy customers, perfume smells. Prices of course and as you say, ability to get way nicer things of high quality fabric and fit. I’m not poor, it is just my strong preference. I seriously hate going into malls. I live in an urban neighborhood with really great consignment shops a few blocks away, where I can walk around with my coffee, dog and husband and pop in and out. There are very few things I prefer new.

    • StLaz

      Totally a thrift maven here – I am a size 9.5 but would have to pass because of an occasional throbbing bunion, and well, I sit on one or the other foot occasionally, and these shoes say OW! :)

      They do have power and charm.

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