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Anonymous
Suggestions for dog-friendly restaurants in Chicago? Or other activities to do with dogs in the city this weekend?
ChiLaw
Clark Street Ale House is fun and dog friendly!
How will the weather be? There’s a good dog beach at Montrose, or even just walking up and down the lake is fun.
Anonymous
Thanks! It’s supposed to be nice this weekend, highs in the mid-70s to low 80s and no rain.
Minnie Beebe
Does Clark Street Ale house serve food? I recall that place being drinks-only.
OP, most restaurants with outdoor seating allow dogs outside. Agree that a visit to the lakefront would be fun, though not all dogs at the dog beach are well-behaved, so just be careful with yours. There are lots of wonderful parks in the city. Lincoln Park is lovely, the zoo is free (don’t know if they allow dogs in there though), North Pond (south end of zoo) is gorgeous.
You could also head into Wicker Park or West Loop. Lots of great parks and restaurants there. WL – Mary Bartelme Park, Skinner Park are both wonderful. Wicker Park (the actual park) has a nice fountain and garden, you could go to nearby restaurant Big Star for tacos and a dollar Schlitz (they have other -good- beer too, I just love the novelty of the dollar Schlitz.)
Anon
Ever get hot/sweaty and then have palpitations – while you’re NOT working out? It was so bizarre last night — sitting on my couch reading, felt kind of hot all of a sudden, and then ended up having hard palpitations that must have lasted at least 10 min. I hadn’t realized that the apartment was pretty warm (almost 80) and I was wearing a long sleeve shirt, but still I’ve never experienced anything like it before. Turned on the AC and had 2 popsicles and then fine all evening but should I be concerned? I’m in my 30s so not a hot flash.
Anonymous
Yes. You were in a hot place, maybe you were a little dehydrated. That could explain it.
Were you anxious? Could it have been a little panic attack?
Sometimes if your thyroid is off, your heart rate can rise, but this is rarely for brief attacks like this.
If it recurs, and if not clearly heat/dehydration related you can mention it to your doctor. If you ever have additional symptoms like chest pain, shortness of breath etc… then let them know right away. But at your age, and in this setting, it would be very unusual for this to be something serious.
anon
Dehydration?
I had an unsettling experience a few months ago. I didn’t feel great in the morning, but gradually became nauseated, weak, and had heart palpitations in the afternoon. It was so bad I was about to tell my companions I needed to get home and rest, but it started to get better (and then I had chocolate milk and started to feel much better. I am not 4 years old, I promise). Never happened to me before except for obviously anxiety related things, which this clearly wasn’t as I was on vacation. I concluded it was dehydration- I am on a medication that is dehydrating and had flown (and had minimal water) the day before, and also had had lots of alcohol.
nutella
How long were you sitting on the couch? Had you had anything to eat or drink – was your blood sugar low or blood pressure low? Could it have been a panic attack? I would tell your doctor sooner rather than later. If you are concerned, maybe have some baby aspirin until you can talk to your doctor.
Anonymous
I’m not trying to freak you out, but I would definitely see a doctor. A friend experienced something like this and it turns out she had leukemia (treatable, and she’s fine now, thankfully). She had some other symptoms as well and I’m sure the odds it’s anything serious are very, very low, but why not visit a doctor and get checked out just to make sure? I’m not sure it’s wise to surmise that it’s nothing serious just because you’re young. There are plenty of serious illnesses that affect young people.
Anon
OP here — you’ve just freaked me out. I’m fairly positive it wasn’t anxiety as I was literally doing nothing. The only thing I can point to concretely is heat even though 80 isn’t typically hot for me — maybe it was in a stuffy apartment. I have been concerned about health lately but the earliest I can get an appointment with anyone for a physical is 3 weeks from now.
Meg Murry
Schedule the appointment for 3 weeks from now, and you could also ask if you can be put on the cancelation list. You can also talk to a nurse and explain your symptoms, and they’ll usually say “if that plus A happen again, go to urgent care for a same day appointment, and if that plus B or C happen go right to the ER or call 911”. I’ve found it incredibly helpful to talk to a nurse during normal business hours, as opposed to playing the “is this serious enough for the emergency room? or to call my doctor’s after hours service?” at 11 pm.
Did you take your temperature? I get random “I’m cold so I put on long sleeves but now maybe I’m hot and sweaty and my face is flushed but I’m too cold if I take off this sweater” temperature swings when I’m coming down with a fever.
I’m willing to bet it was low blood pressure, low blood sugar or dehydration, but it’s definitely worth seeing your doctor about, even if it is a 3 week wait.
Anonymous
A hallmark of panic attacks and anxiety are that they come on for the “uninitiated” (first timers) without any warning and peak within about 10 minutes. Your symptoms, and the quick peak, sounds like panic to me.
caffeine
How much caffeine did you have that day? Caffeine gives me heart palpitations/hot flashes sometimes, even hours after consumed.
constant reader
could be thyroid…hyperthyroidism
Anon
Thanks ladies. Appointment is made for 3 weeks from now. Fingers crossed. In response to the above questions – I did take my temp a bit later (maybe 1-2 hrs later) bc I had the slightest bit of a sinus headache (which I’ll get from time to time) so I was wondering if I was getting sick. It was normal though. I do have low-ish BP normally and I know I haven’t been as vigilant about drinking water now that the weather has cooled off a bit — thinking back, it was 7 pm and I had only had a 16 oz iced tea (caffeinated) and maybe 2 glasses of water all day. Which is why I figured popsicles were a good way to go — get cold and water in at the same time.
Anonymous
Yeah, I would not panic about this. Young woman, hot temperature, not enough to drink (and much of it was caffeinated), low blood pressure to start with. It doesn’t take much to push you over…..
Are you ok today?
Call the doc if you are worried.
I guarantee you that the other posters friend with leukemia had more than a one time episode of her symptoms, and they don’t resolve with a couple of Popsicles.
You don’t need an urgent appointment. It will be fine.
Anon
I don’t want to freak you out, but you should call your doctor tonight and see if you need to rule out a heart attack. The symptoms are different in women and what you described sounds concerning. I’m sure it’s something minor instead, but it couldn’t hurt to call and get a physician’s opinion.
Brooklyn
My future SIL doesn’t love me; I’ve posted about her before. She lives a few blocks from us, and we have dinner every Sunday. Every Sunday, no matter if someone is sick or has an early morning etc. I’m not obligated to go–fiancé always says I can skip it–but I’m trying to forge a relationship with the sis and it is always taken a little oddly if I don’t come (“is she upset?”). Fiancé sees his sister and her kids at least one other time each week. Usually to babysit. Again, my presence is not required, but he appreciates my being there. I also like hanging with his family – but 2x/week is a lot!
We’ve been fighting about his sister and his prioritizing her schedule over mine. He often makes plans with her, agrees to babysit, etc without consulting me first to see if we have other plans. I get that he is used to being a bachelor, agreeing to see his sister at the drop of the hat – but he literally, literally never says no. She is also often changing plans last minute and expects us to just go with the flow. She doesn’t get the fact that his schedule now partly depends on someone else, and he isn’t standing up to her about it. It’s become a particular problem in the last month and we talked about it in counseling. I really thought he understood.
Tomorrow we had plans to go do a fun activity. It is only on tomorrow. We had plans to do a separate activity next Saturday with his sister. Today happens to be a really nasty day for my fiancé. His job got eliminated a month ago, and it was his last day. A few hours ago, he informed me his sister wanted to go do the activity tomorrow. I asked what changed (her original plans tomorrow fell through) and said I was really looking forward to our plans (he was too- he originally made them). He said he really needed to be around his family right now, because things are so hard. He emphasized that I’m his family, he needs me too, and he wants to be with all of us. He said it would mean a lot to him if we could spend time with his sister instead of our original plans. Of course I agreed.
My feelings are hurt. I am disappointed about skipping the event we were planning. I’m mad that he did the same behavior we have talked about. I feel like a “back-up” that he can flake on as soon as his sister is available. But on top of it, I feel guilty because he is going through a lot of sh*t. I expressed this to him and he apologized for being inconsiderate; he said he is having a rough day and trouble thinking clearly. Fair.
If I had pushed it, I know he would have agreed to keep our plans. And I truly think this will improve over time and with premarital counseling – he is learning that we are a team in terms of scheduling, etc. So, not looking for “dump him!” comments. I guess I just needed to rant. Maybe I feel jealous of the sister? Any ideas for healing this in a way that makes everyone happy? And for getting over my disappointment, attempting to actually have a nice time tomorrow?
Anonymous
Make an appointment for couples counseling IMMEDIATELY. Don’t marry this man until you resolve these issues. He’s far too attached to his sister and her approval.
Anonymous
+1 If you don’t fix this now, you will be competing with his sister for your entire marriage. I wouldn’t want another woman in my husband’s life to come first.
Anonymous
I wouldn’t want my husband to put any other person above me. I don’t think the sex of the sibling matters.
Anonymous
Oof this is a tough one and I would be having a rage stroke in your shoes. It’s good that he’s working on this in counseling, but honestly the comments that he “just needs to be around his family right now” and that means his sister, not you, is a huuuuuuge red flag to me. A husband and wife have to make each other their number one priority and in my experience that is a very hard thing to fix even with counseling and only gets worse over time. I’m not suggesting you dump him today, but I would give serious thought to putting the wedding planning on hold until more progress has been made on this issue.
As for tomorrow, maybe you’re a better person than I am, but I wouldn’t be able to go and be around him and his sister without making myself and everyone around me miserable. I’d cancel and treat yourself to something fun – the original event if it’s something you can enjoy solo, and if it’s not maybe a spa day or just a Netflix marathon of your favorite girly shows at home.
Brooklyn
He included me in his “family” definition, though – he basically said he didn’t want to go on this outing unless I came too, because it was an activity for the whole family (including me).
Maybe one thing I failed to mention is that he really adores his niece and nephew. They love him and he is the key male presence in their life (SIL is married to woman). He says it brings him a lot of comfort and joy to spend time playing with them, which makes a lot of sense to me.
Anonymous
He can call you his “family” all he wants, but talk is cheap. He is clearly treating his “family” in a hierarchy, and his sister is at the top.
Anonymous
But he is cancelling something he planned with you to do something they planned. Just because he’s letting you tag along doesn’t make it ok. It would be different if he came to you and said “Hey, I’m feeling a little low this weekend and would love to see my sis and niece and nephew, could we invite them to our event?” [Or if the event is something that’s inappropriate for kids like a beer festival, “could we plan to do XYZ event with them?”] But this isn’t originally coming from HIM – it’s coming from SIL demanding he changes his plans to something she wants as opposed to what you want, and him giving in to her demands. And don’t tell me he’s doing you a favor by asking for your permission – he’s putting you between a rock and a hard place so if you say no, you’re the terrible person who’s keeping him from his sister and niece and nephew.
Anonymous
I had a m/c once and really just wanted my mother and aunt. In a corner, what you want isn’t the most logical thing, just what you’re feeling at a tough moment.
He’s going through a lot of adjustments and actually talking about them with you and you’re being a good sport and going along (but know he’d defer if needed — perhaps that day will come when you do need him to make this call). Do you get along with SIL’s wife? I find that when I’m with my in-laws, I really bond with my fellow out-law (one SIL’s husband — we are fellow outsiders).
LostInTranslation
This behavior is your warning. Premarital counseling or not, this is what your marriage is going to look like. I’m not saying dump him, but understand this is how he is, how she is, how their family is and don’t expect it to change. A good friend of mine married into a family like this and some of her frustrations sound a lot like your post, right down to her husband telling her that sis “really needs to be around family right now.” Her husband’s family come over a lot, they want to vacation with the brother/sister and their spouses, they want my friend and her husband to cover over every weekend. They want to get together MINIMUM 2x per week. She’s pushed back and he genuinely doesn’t get what the problem is. Some families are just like this and if you’re not used to that much togetherness, it can be tough.
Anonymous
This sounds like a good friend of mine too. She has to spend every single weekend, all weekend, with her husband’s family. All her vacations are with the husband’s family. Her in-laws regularly drop by and WALK INTO HER HOUSE unannounced. They own the house, which is their justification. Friend’s husband refuses to live anywhere else. It’s a nightmare for her.
anon
What is it with parents who don’t understand privacy? My fiance’s dad used to hang around my fiance’s house all the time – sometimes he would walk in unannounced, sometimes he would just show up and start doing yard work right outside the windows. My fiance was living with a roommate at one time. FFIL stopped randomly showing up after walking in on roommate and GF mid-LGP. Really glad he broke that habit before fiance and I moved in together!
I have another friend whose FIL would randomly walk in the house that she and her husband owned. FIL could not understand why it was a problem – “well you’re always welcome to walk in our house whenever you want why can’t we do the same?”
Sue
I’m Asian and that is our custom to visit and support and help out even without consent! I don’t see anything wrong with it and welcome family and friends anytime. Living here is the US I’d see too many lonely people with no one to share the day with and that make me very sad, be grateful that at least someone want to see you, because tomorrow might never comes!!!
nona
“without consent” – not cool. It’s not like the choices are: let family stop by whenever they want without limit or die alone.
Sue
When we visited we never come empty handed and always showed respect to the homeowner! Open communication is the key here and sensitivity to other people feeling is a must!
the gold digger
is our custom to visit and support and help out even without consent!
But do they walk into your house without knocking? I don’t want people just showing up and I would be pissed beyond measure if someone just walked into my house.
Sue
Unless you gave them the key to your house, they can not just walk in!! Why so defensive unless you are ashamed of your own home!
Anonymous
Maybe we walk around naked?
Amelia Earhart
I dated someone seriously for several years with a similar relationship with his family. While I was always included in family activities, I was very much still not family and when it came down to it, despite talking about marriage, he chose them every. single. time. over me. I eventually ended it.
I don’t think that I’d lean on “he’s used to being a bachelor” much after a few months, even a year. You’re engaged, he should be used to accommodating you in his life much like you have, apparently, done for him.
Anonymous
+1 Also ended a relationship like this. It was hard, because many, many things about the relationship were great and I don’t mind family closeness and spending lots of time with in-laws (assuming they’re pleasant to me), but I needed a spouse who would put me above his parents and siblings when push came to shove. I found that and am very happy I ended that prior relationship. If we’d gotten married, it would have ended in divorce because I could not have spent 50 years like that.
Meg March
Not address the “this weekend plans” issue, but for general planning– have you considered having a shared google calendar so that he doesn’t have to “check in” with you about whether you have plans? This only works if you actually do it– you can’t get mad if he makes plans that conflict with something that’s not on the calendar– but we like it for a quick, easy look at what’s going on in our lives and when we’re free.
anon
The problem with tomorrow is that under normal circumstances, what he did would’ve been fine (not super awesome, but fine). You get laid off from your job, the weekend after is yours to spend as you please and your SO should be supportive. The problem is, like you’ve said, this has become a hot button issue in your relationship. In his time of need, he chose to disregard the progress you’d made in therapy in favor of once again prioritizing his sister’s whim/his non-confrontational tendencies over your feelings. The “I really need to be surrounded by family” line just comes off as manipulative seen in this light – he knows it’s going to hurt your feelings but it’s easier to get you to bend than to deal with confronting sister.
One thing he can work on is being honest with you about his feelings. This screams of conflict-avoidance to me much more than him actually prioritizing her over you. If what he really means is, “I’m going through enough right and I can’t cope with a guilt trip from sister” then he should say that, not, “I want to hang out with my family more than I want to keep our plans.” You can work on providing an understanding place for him to express that. He’s going to need to create boundaries with his sister and that is going to be HARD for him. Your role here is to be a support system. Be patient (so, so patient) when he doesn’t draw the boundaries any reasonable person knows he should and build him up when he draws the right boundaries and gets an earful for it.
Emmen
I get that your brother is family oriented and there’s nothing wrong with that. But this isn’t just about one incident where he was having a bad day; this is a pattern that you’ve noticed.
My husband is the youngest of many siblings and was used to being figuratively dragged around by the arm his entire life, having no say in anything and just going along with the family’s activities. It is not surprising that this mental state continued into his adulthood, and we had to have a frank discussion about it, along the lines of “If we are going to be partners, my opinions and feelings about matters both big and small simply have to carry more weight with you than your family’s. If that’s not the case, you’re not ready to get married.” He is much better now, and we still spend tons of time with his family – who I love – and listens to their opinions on things, but we make our decisions and plans between the two of us. (He has also learned to take responsibility in the details of planning things, another thing for which his family dynamic left him unprepared, and which is its whole own set of frustrating stories.)
If you let his current tendencies become the established dynamic going into your marriage, it will be much harder to change later on, and you will be resentful all the time. Unless you want to live that way, address this now, and firmly. Good luck.
Anon in NYC
Yes, agreed. When me and my husband first moved in together we were fairly young (~23-24ish). My husband had to learn how to stand up for himself, which he’d never really done because he always just felt like a “kid” and used to going along with what his family wanted. For him, it really was about becoming more of an adult and figuring out what kind of relationship he wanted with his lovely-but-sometimes-overbearing family. I’m not sure how old you/he are, but I think for guys who have been single for a long period of time, this process can be extended because prior to you, he had no real reason to change the way he related to his family, and if this dynamic extended well into adulthood, it’s a difficult habit to break.
All that said, it takes regular practice to change how your family of origin relates to you. And, on occasion, tough conversations that will make him uncomfortable and left feeling guilty. Your future SIL doesn’t want the status quo to change. This doesn’t make her a bad person. It’s just her definition of family and the type of relationship she and her brother have.
I think pre-marital counseling is a good idea, and you should continue it. Just realize that you’re asking him to change decades-old behavior. I think it’s worth doing, because I wouldn’t want to live like that, but it will take time. Perhaps you could work with your counselor to come up with some scripts for him to use with his sister for these types of situations.
Emmen
+1 to everything you said. My husband and I were 32 when we started dating, before which he had been effectively single for his entire life. And you’re 100% right – that situation left him no reason to want or need to change the status quo with his family. I cannot overstate my appreciation for the concentrated effort it took him to overcome such a lifetime of thinking.
Senior Attorney's Life Rules
I think this falls under: people are not improvement projects. This may just be the way he is.
Anonymous
+ 1
Anonymous
Do you kind of “have” to go when he’s babysitting because pleasing his sister is important or do they truly not care (or maybe you feel like you have to because you’re a little anxious about the situation, but you don’t actually have to)? I can see no issue with him babysitting one night a week without checking in with you first because you don’t need to come, unless you happen to be free and want to. Presumably if you guys had plans, he’d know about them, right? If he cancels plans though because his sister asks him to babysit and he’d rather always do that or forgets, that is a big problem. His behavior this past weekend points to some codependency issues – one time, ok, maybe he’s just sad. But it sounds like you think it’s a pattern and you should talk about it now, before you get married.
anon
Apologies if I’m misreading, but I think he should give OP a heads-up even if she doesn’t have to go babysitting with him. I understand that not every relationship is like this, but for us at least, my live-in partner and I have standing “plans” in the evenings – we have dinner together and then cuddle and go to sleep. We only have an hour or two free per weekday, so that time is really precious to us. It’s perfectly fine to cancel those plans in favor of something else, but it seems impolite to not give some notice, barring emergencies. If he was always blowing off the limited time we have to connect during the week? I’d feel like I didn’t even have a partner. Reliability is pretty high on my list of must-haves.
Anonymous
I don’t mean that he shouldn’t tell his fiancee that sis asked him if he could watch the kids for a couple hours Thursday night next week, but that it would be excessive to check in with her first every single time before saying ok. If he knows he’s free, having to run every single little thing past her before confirming it with the person who asked comes off as controlling.
Anonymous
So don’t dump. But know this will never change. Ever. My husband’s family is over-bearing and demanding but he says NO to them when he needs to say no.
Killer Kitten Heels
OP, late to the party and I haven’t read all of the comments here yet, but I have a thought on this, that may help you articulate – to yourself and to your couples therapist – what the problem is here.
You partner, right now, seems to be defining his “family” as an already-existing entity (himself, his sister and her partner, their kids) that you, as his fiancée, are joining. You, on the other hand, seem to want to define “family” as a new entity the two of you are creating by marrying one another. Personally, I lean to your definition (when you marry, you’re creating a new family unit that should take priority over extended family, which is the circle that siblings/parents move to when you create a new family unit with your new spouse), but not everyone would agree, and it’s really, really important to get on the same page about this before you marry/potentially have kids/ etc.
How are you supposed to build a family together when you don’t even have the same definition of “family”? This is something the two of you absolutely need to work out in counseling, and maybe it’ll be easier for him to hear and think about how he wants to handle this issue when you’re not framing it as you vs. his sister/niece&nephew, which is kind of what sounds like is happening now.
nutella
+a million to the definition of family. This happened to my sister, whose husband is the youngest and always followed what everyone else in the family was doing. Anytime there was a conflict between his mom and my sis, he felt caught in the middle. I believe spouse is family and in many ways more important because it’s the family you *choose* to make. It’s all the better if the family you come from and the family you make are on the same page, but ultimately you two are creating a family.
nutella
Want to add that this is no longer an issue for them – he learned you can be ‘family first’ and everyone be happy. It just took getting used to for him and his mom that their family was extending to include one more in decisions. That is, after all, the point of marriage! Now, “your wife is the family you choose” is his most spoken advice!
Anonymama
I think you’re justified in being annoyed, but also that others are being overly pessimistic. He’s going through a rough time and it seems normal to me that he’d rather spend time with family and kids rather than going to a Fun Event that maybe he wasn’t feeling up for. You acknowledge that if you put your foot down he would go along with you. Just let him know that you understand this time, but that next time you might not. And then follow through, and he will see that it is fine. Apparently other people have had terrible experiences but many husbands are actually reasonable thoughtful human beings who make mistakes but are also capable of change and compromise, even if it doesn’t happen immediately.
Anonymous
+1 I’m not totally getting why everyone else responded as such…
Harriet
Try having a LGP with the sister. It could help smooth things over with your fiancée.
Anita
What? I think doing this would send your fiancee over the deep end. No one needs to be that close to the SIL!
Sonny
Does anyone have a Bobeau one button cardigan? Any comments on how it has held up? I’m only interested in buying clothes that last at this point in my life.
Anonymous
You mean with asymmetric hem, soft cardigan that everyone has?
This is a comfort, lounge-y, not high quality item. But a nice, basic staple. It is like a stylized sweat-shirt, if you know what I mean. It will pill and fade. But I still find it very useful, and have two.
A great thing to buy on sale, but I bought my first one full price.
Leatty
I have it. It is very warm, which is great for my cold office, but it has started to pill after only 2 months of use.
Anon88
Yes, it’s very comfortable and soft. I wear it a lot around the house and for traveling. I only wish it was a bit longer in the back so it covered my rear. I’ve had mine for a few months and haven’t noticed any pilling. I was it on delicate and air dry.
anon a mouse
I have had one for 3 years, and I just bought a second last year because the I wore the first one so much. It wears fairly well, but does pill with washing. I wash mine very infrequently — I always wear it as a top layer and it just doesn’t get that dirty. I think cutting down on washings will prolong the life as much as anything. It’s not going to last 10 years, though.
Sonny
Thanks for the responses. I’ll buy a used one because I can’t get fit any of my sweatshirts, but this won’t be a wardrobe staple.
Sa
I have four if them. I love them and u work in a business casual environment so I do wear them to work. One of the buttons has cone off but was easy to replace. Otherwise they hold up very well, no pilling.
Anon
Have you ever considered starting a business or is it something you plan to do later on in your career? What type of business/why etc. I feel like I constantly have areas of interest and then they fade away as I don’t make an kind of move — in my mid 30s, litigator. I wouldn’t want my own law firm, but somehow anytime I think business — I keep coming back to real estate development though I don’t exactly know what that would entail.
Anyone else.
Ellen
Yay! Open Thread’s! I love open thread’s and this p’ost!
Anon, you are like me. I too am a litiegator in my mid-30’s, and I too have been thinkeing of alternate carreer’s that better exploit my talents, which include my personality and bubbelyness. I was thinkeing about creating a company that specializes in consulting work. If you are in NYC mabye we should talk about establisheing a partnership that does consulting. Would that interest you or anyone else in the HIVE? I am not sure what we could consult on, but we could always figure that out later.
In the meantime, I wish the HIVE a very happy weekend. I am goeing bike riding in the Catskills with Myrna. There may be guys up there for both of us! YAY!!!
Yvonne
Ellen, I live in Brooklyn, practice Real Estate (commercial) and would love to go into business with you. How can we connect?
Kylie
I live in Manhattan. THAT is NYC? Partner with me Ellen. I can’t find meaningful work in a 8 – 5 job but am working on being a consultant too. Choose me!!!!
Anita
Kylie and Yvonne appear to have some possibilities, but I should clearly be given preference, because I live in Manhattan, and am already involved in Co-Op consulting, with a law degree from Brooklyn Law School, and a member of the NY Bar (like you I believe). I am already married, so I would not be competing with you in case any decent guys came in looking for help, I bathe and shower regularly. Give me a shot!
Anonymous4
Yes – I’ve long had a goal of starting either a fundraising consulting business or freelance grant proposal writing business – or merging those two ideas into a single company. It isn’t something I’m able to launch while working because of non-compete and all that sort of thing – but when we get to a place financially I don’t have to work, I’ll be looking to quit and work on building a client base.
And I secretly dream of owning my own independent book store in a nearby artisan village – the kind where you can find rare books, locally published, antique books, and a cat or two curled up in the corner. But unless I win the lottery or find a very well-to-do relative that’s little more than a dream.
nan
I do! I wish that I could start my own business but I just can’t think of anything viable. I love to sew, and I am at the point where I just want to do something I enjoy. I’m envious of people who are willing to take that risk.
Coach Laura
I know several attorneys who are now RE developers. It seems to fit pretty well. Most got their starts by either being RE attorneys for their day jobs or by owning investment RE. Connections are very important in this field. There are networking and learning opportunities like CREW (Commercial RE Women) so you can get exposure over time to learn the ins and outs of RE financing, contracts, ownership, development etc. Some universities have classes that could be audited or done online. You could also see about moonlighting as an outside/contract counsel for a smaller RE investment company to help learn the ropes.
Anon
OP here – thanks. I went to undergrad b-school so I have a decent (not fantastic since I don’t use it) numbers background and I’m all about investing (stocks), so I feel like I could figure it out. I’ll look into CREW. You also just reminded me that I had posted my resume on an alumni pg of my undergrad b school and got a hit from a consulting firm looking for people who may want to take on short/work from home projects to help out smaller RE firms that may need 5-10 hrs of help but don’t need to/can’t hire a full time employee. I have no idea if they’d consider a lawyer for that sort of thing, but I should go back and look.
Anony
I’ve always wanted to have my own business. It is pretty normal in my family. I kept getting close to opening a business that is something I invented but I never had the right time/money/connections combination for that. I do still intend to have my own law/finance practice in the future but I’m early in my career and still need to learn from and work with others. I’m building to it, though.
Anonymous
Kind of a stupid question, but what do you wear for sight-seeing in a hot climate when you want to be comfortable but also look decently put together? In the winter, I wear jeans, sweaters and boots and feel like I look nice but am still able to walk around easily, but I’m not sure what the equivalent of that is in the summer, especially since I’m not really a dress girl and t-shirts and shorts look kind of sloppy to me. And what do you do about footwear? Flip-flops or cute sandals aren’t really great for walking around a city but boots aren’t an option and sneakers look weirder and more casual with shorts than they do with jeans (imo, anyway). Help?
Anonymous
The footwear answer is Keens (or similar).
And for me, the warm-weather clothes Q is the non-exercising stuff from Athleta for bottoms and some sort of patterned tee.
mascot
I like the Athleta skorts with the hidden shorts underneath. They look like regular skirts but the shorts work to prevent chafing and stay put better than skimmies.
Anonymous
I have heard from multiple people that Keens get stinky.
I’ve had good luck with leather sandals from Clarks or other comfort brands.
Anonymous
My go-to this summer was white shorts, black lace muscle tank (this sounds weird but it’s really cute! The lace is really small pattern and you can’t tell its lace until you’re really close to it) and low-profile sneakers (Like slip ons instead of running sneakers).
Coach Laura
Someone here recommended Puma Asha Alt 2 slip on athletic shoes and they’re very comfy for walking, travelling etc. Much better than normal running shoes with casual dresses and shorts.
Anonymous
Wear a dress, it’s the best option for looking stylish and feeling comfortable.
TO Lawyer
I like t-shirt dresses for this. They’re comfy and soft and can look stylish depending on the dress.
Anon88
When I was in Greece in June, I wore a lot of the Lands End fit & flare dresses in knit materials. They were very comfortable.
Clarks might be an option for shoes. Check out the Barking Dogs blog for comfortable shoe suggestions.
CHJ
I usually wear casual cotton pants, rolled up a bit, with street sneakers (like NB or Nike Frees or Vans/Converse), and some kind of lightweight shirt. It’s not nice enough for a fancy restaurant, but it is fine for walking a lot and going to museums. I’ll post a couple links in a second…
Anonymous
Jersey dress and Birkenstocks, or wear your sneakers. It’s hard to look pulled together in shorts.
Looking to move
For anyone that has moved to an in-house attorney position, how did you find the job? I am starting to look for a new job. Hopefully something in-house doing regulatory compliance. I am curious as to how people have made the move.
Leatty
I found each of my in-house gigs through indeed.
Anonymous
+1, Indeed, no connection to the company.
Looking to move
Thanks for the tip! I just uploaded my resume and marked it so that recruiters can find me.
ChiLaw
Networking with a ton of follow up and follow through.
Looking to move
Thanks!
Anokha
Indeed for me — but after I applied for the job, I looked for connections on LinkedIn and someone called HR to recommend me. I think it made all the difference
Anonymous
Ditto.
anon
goinhouse . com and linked were my two places I found jobs that resulted in interviews.
Come to in-house, where everyone leaves at 5 pm and things are sooooo happy. I never imagined I’d enjoy being a lawyer…turns out, big law is just the worst!
purplesneakers
Anyone have tips for makeup storage? Mine is driving me nuts.
I don’t have THAT much makeup, but it’s spilling out of the medium-sized bag I keep it in. Even then, it’s not super organized and I can never find what I need quickly or without hassle I glam up for special occasions, so going super minimalist won’t help, either. Help!
BabyAssociate
I actually use a desktop office organizer and it works really well.
Not this exact one, but something similar: https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Quality-Plastic-Desktop-Organizer/dp/B001B11ZTC/ref=sr_1_2?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1474655692&sr=1-2&keywords=plastic+desktop+organizer
anon
I keep my everyday stuff separate. For not-everyday, I have a bag for each eyes, lips, and face/cheeks. The bags are all the same size, so they fit together nicely in a drawer.
Interested to hear what others do though!
Bonnie
I use a bag for the makeup I use everyday and put going out makeup and extras in a box under the bathroom sink.
Anonymous
I use a clear shoe organizer that hangs over the back of my bathroom door for all my beauty products. The pockets are the perfect size.
BabyAssociate
Ohh I like this idea!
Kt
I have a ton of makeup, and kept it all stuffed in a train case. It was always overflowing and never shut right.
My husband bought me this acrylic one last month for my birthday and I love it! It holds tons of makeup and even fits my Urban Decay Naked palettes.
And unlike the caboodle/ train case, it looks really nice on my vanity.
http://amzn.to/2doiUNu
Houda
I have an every day makeup corner where I put all my daily esentials in an office organizer from the container store. For the rest of my makeup, it sits elsewhere in clear acrylic drawers from Muji
After this morning's thread...
some of you may find this Black Lives Matter syllabus helpful, as a resource while debating other people or a cluebat for yourselves. Either way, I’d recommend it to pretty much anyone who is in the least interested in understanding the current situation in America.
http://www.blacklivesmattersyllabus.com/fall2016/
mascot
Along those lines, I’m reading “between the world and me” by Ta-Nehisi Coates and it’s enlightening.
Monday
+1. I read it last year and then gave it as a Christmas present to my (also white) coworker, mom, and in-laws.
anon
I just finished reading the New Jim Crow, and while the individual pieces touched on in the book were not news to me, seeing it all put together was mind-blowing. Do yourselves a favor and read it.
Aunt Jamesina
Such a phenomenal read! I read this with my book club and the discussion was so great.
Anon
I want to recommend “How to Slowly Kill Yourself and Others in America” by Kiese Laymon.
From the book–
“We are real black characters with real character, not the stars of American racist spectacle. Blackness is not probable cause.”
Divorce lawyer in Lancaster PA
Can anybody give a recommendation? Sorry if this posts twice.
CountC
Lisa McKoy http://www.n-hlaw.com/lisa-j-mccoy/
Alexis Miloszewski (in HBG but travels to Lanc a lot) http://centralpafamilylaw.com/attorney-profiles/alexis-m-miloszewski/
OP
Thank you!!!
CountC
You’re welcome!
CountC
I posted recs for you down thread:)
CountC
Derp – I was using my phone and clearly can’t figure it out.
Amelia Earhart
What do you wear to a late afternoon/early evening wedding with a dress code of “dressy casual”?
Early summer, CA wedding.
anon
Silk sun dress or maxi dress.
Anonymous
A sun dress in a bright print and sandals or wedges.
Anonymous
Probably a print or something like this: http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/charles-henry-off-the-shoulder-woven-a-line-dress/4396305
S-non
Anyone have experience with Lark & Ro (Amazon brand) and can speak to quality?
Or specifically, with this dress: https://www.amazon.com/Lark-Ro-Womens-Sleeve-Sheath/dp/B01D12PFNA/ref=sr_1_4?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1474658675&sr=1-4&nodeID=1045024&refinements=p_89%3ALark+%26+Ro
Anonymous
Ha! I ordered three L&R dresses, including this one, and was just trying them on. This dress is the only possible keeper but I found it ran quite small. I also ordered their wrap dress and it just didn’t quite fit me well (far too low-cut in the front). I also ordered the “3/4 sleeve knit fit and flare” and didn’t even bother trying it on, the fabric was so flimsy. This one, the one you’re asking about, is sturdier, and the front is nice. I am trying to do long sleeves for work dresses now so I’m hopeful if I exchange for one size up it’ll work for me.
SF in House
I would like to do a girl’s trip right after Christmas. This friend and I have been to Europe in the past (Czech Republic, Spain, France). We like to mix sightseeing, boutique/local shopping, and good food. Any destination recommendations? We would have a week and are coming from California. Thoughts on Colombia?
BabyAssociate
I’ve spent some time in Bogota. Definitely has some really delicious food, great museums, and local hikes if you’re into that!
Anonymous
I’d do Costa Rica or Belize over Colombia.
nutella
For sightseeing, shopping, and food, I’d do Cartagena over Belize/Costa Rica, which I think are better for active adventuring (ziplining, etc.) type vacations. The old town is sooooo gorgeous!
Anonymous
Cartagena Colombia is at the top of me and my travel friend’s list!
the gold digger
Yessssss Cartagena.
Heartbroken
This morning we were told that our receptionist/office manager has melanoma. She found out yesterday. Not sure how bad it is/what stage it’s at.
Everyone here is heartbroken. She makes working here even more pleasant and she is great at what she does and is a great person. She was really kind and supportive when I started here and was learning my job. We are all hoping she will be okay.
Anonymous
Melanoma has very recently (last 3 years) become much more treatable. I know of someone with no evidence of disease with stage 4 metastatic melanoma for more than a year now. So if there was ever a time for this diagnosis, it’s now. Good luck to her!
Anonymous
+1
President Carter was diagnosed with stage 4 melanoma that go had already spread all over his brain. But new treatments are so amazing that his disease is gone and he is plugging away in his 90’s.
Anonymous
Don’t let her take advantage of the situation. As others have said, melanoma is easily treated and cured. Hopefully she doesn’t milk this too much. I don’t even know why there had to be a big announcement for something so minor.
Anon
Wow. That is cold.
Kt
What the hell?
Sloan Sabbith
You are a terrible person.
Jen
Eh, my uncle had melanoma and was cleared and cancer free for 5 years. Then they found out it had spread to his lymph nodes and brain and lover and he was dead in 6 Months despite being at one of the best treatment centers (anderson). So, even though I’m 99% sure this is a troll, it can be very serious.
Anonymous
Yes, this. I wouldn’t describe any cancer as “minor” but metastasized melanoma has a five-year survival rate of less than 10% and is, by any definition, an incredibly serious illness. Hopefully it was caught early in the case of OP’s co-worker and she will have a good outcome, but this post saying it’s ‘easily treated and cured” is ridiculous.
Anonymous
Some people mistakenly believe all skin cancers can be easily cured. While that is generally true for the most common skin cancers, melanoma is a different beast. It can be cured, but the risk is much higher and melanoma that is spread is ne of the most serious cancers. Until just a few years ago, it was a death sentences. We are more hopeful now.
Meg March
KAT. These are EXACTLY what I’ve been looking for the last couple weeks. You’re the best. Ordered!
Kat G
Hooray!
Anon
Baby gift — can you come up with ideas for me? I don’t have kids so I’m not particularly good at this.
A couple friend of mine is having their 2nd child (1st girl). Due in Nov. They’re not having any kind of baby shower this time, but I just realized I should get them something. So what do I get? How much to spend? Clothes – since they don’t have girl clothes they can re-use? Something else? I would have to mail it to them bc they are in a different city and I’m not certain I’ll get up there before the due date to visit — so I need something that packages well.
They live in NYC – high income couple and unlike most in NYC they have a HUGE apartment so it’s not a question of — I don’t want to get them things to clutter up their space though obv I don’t want to give clutter just for the heck of it either. Also I think I should get the 3 yr old big brother something — what’s a small toy that’s good for that age group?
I’ll take suggestions for both — links esp for clothing if you can provide them as I really don’t understand infant clothing and what’s useful/not.
anon
aden + anais Classic Muslin Swaddling Blankets. You can get a 3- or 4-pack on Amazon. Beautiful, useful, compact.
anon
And for the boy: Richard Scarry’s Cars and Trucks and Things That Go (a book). Never met a 3 yr old who didn’t love it.
Nylon girl
Yes! Richard Scary books are the best for both genders. My favorite gift for all kids 5 and under.
anon
I mean… you do you… but I’m not understanding why you *should* get this couple something for having another kid and also the big brother. There’s a reason that people don’t host baby showers for a second kid.
Anon
OP here — I mean I don’t HAVE to. And it’s not like she has hinted at any sort of gift or mentioned anything at all. She’s just a friend I used to see all the time and now I don’t anymore bc I’ve moved 3 hrs away and I was thinking how I won’t get to see the baby as a newborn (which I did with her son and brought him a gift then) so I SHOULD still get this child something even though it’ll have to be sent by mail and not hand delivered on a first visit.
Anonymous
Girl clothes are great. Try to buy clothes for all age ranges and not just 0-3 months. Zippers are most convenient for PJs. Ask them if there is anything that needs refreshing or replacing between kids (burp clothes, blankets, swaddles, etc).
Anonymous
In this situation, I’d get a special book you remember from your childhood, a luxury item (e.g., Aden and Anais swaddling blankets in girl prints), or something on the frivolous side (e.g., cutesy hand-knit baby hat in animal or vegetable shape that you can find at some high-end baby boutiques). It can be tricky to get the sizing right on baby clothes. A common recommendation is to buy the 0-3 month size, not the newborn size.
For the 3-year-old, Duplo blocks (big Legos for preschoolers) are always a big hit.
Another R
Personalize name book! My Very Own Name is a good one.
Ms B
Puzzle name stool from Damhorst Toys for the new baby. Easily found on Google. Duplicate set for the older brother.
Anne Elliott
Flannel swaddle blanket.
Travel changing mat.
anon anon armani
magazines from this week/month so they can review the world when “he” was born…my standard gift for decades now. Really appreciated for second kids onwards as there usually is less and less of a “baby book” maintained for them.
Anon
I think I know what people will say about this but still need to post for someone to talk to/hear your advice!
I have a serious crush on my coworker (have for a while). We’re good friends, outside of work as well. I haven’t said anything, because I don’t think dating a coworker is a good idea, logically. At the same time, we mesh in a way that hasn’t happened for me in a long time – what I’m looking for is him but not a coworker (maybe a change but I never expect to meet the ideal person). Work would be fine with it (based on managers suggesting specific people within the office date… it’s a strange workplace) though I’d be concerned about how people actually feel/appearances and awkwardness especially if things went badly. Emotionally, I really want to say something, which isn’t helped by his recent interest in someone else and me feeling as though I’ve missed a chance or something (though this feeling started before his interest in another came up). I’ve been thinking of it as something I’ll bring up/ask him out after leaving the place (probably a year or so) and thought he felt similarly so maybe something would happen but I’m bad at reading this. But at the same time, emotions. I NEVER feel this way about people. I honestly do think we’d be great together but neither of us (if he even feels similarly) would start anything. I don’t want to mess up work or the friendship, though, so realistically know that keeping quiet is logical and safe. I just wish sometimes that I were the kind of person to go with emotion sometimes!
January
Ehh – sometimes people do get together with their co-workers, and stay with them. Like Michelle and Barack Obama. I know examples from my real life, as well. :)
If you think you could handle the rejection (without it making work and/or your friendship unbearable for you), I would say something low-key and non-pressuring about your interest in him. (Like, “Hey, ever thought about being more than friends,” not, “Hey, I’ve been in love with you forever and I think about what our kids would look like daily.” But you seem like you know that).
I also know a couple that met at work and didn’t ultimately last. I think it’s a tough call, but I think you need to decide one way or the other – postponing saying something for a year or so will potentially leave you single and holding out hope for him, while he starts dating someone else. Either say something or decide your reasons for not pursuing it are good enough and look for other romantic interests.
Just my two cents.
Anon
Exactly my debate – there are good and bad examples! I would definitely keep it low key, along the lines of hey, I’ve developed a bit of a crush on you, felt like I should be honest, it’s there anything or should I just get over it. Not scaring anyone or getting super intense here! We’re hanging out next weekend, so I could say something then if I decide to. I just don’t know.
Oh, I’m not still single because of holding off for him. I’m single because I never find anyone I’m interested in/ bad part experience and should at some point put in more effort (more career and friend /family focused – for MUCH longer than I’ve known him)! :) I also know that he’s feeling like there aren’t options left. I didn’t expect to be so bothered by him pursuing someone, though! Whoops!
Thanks. I do need to just decide and be done.
January
I’m like you – I’ve been more focused on career and friends and family, and been burned once or twice. I guess what I’m trying to say, though, is unrequited feelings can hold you back, even if you don’t consciously realize it. (I have learned this the hard way, too). You can take some time to consider whether your jealousy isn’t actually a sign of deeper feelings, but still – for your sake, I would recommend not waiting for the perfect moment, because there isn’t one.
Anon
Thanks. That’s a fair point, and well taken. I’ll definitely think about it this weekend.
We do sound alike! Forever wishing there was a way to actually have it all but being a realist. I need to just take the step finally to online dating (if I don’t pursue this now).
Sa
Maybe keeping it really light like, “Fred, I believe I’ve developed a crush in you but I’m afraid it would be awkward at work, is there something between us or do you have a brother?”
Anon
Ha, I like this one!
nutella
Do you work for Dunder Mifflin – Scranton?
I would think seriously about the implications if it went sour. If you are comfortable with them, you could ask him out either directly or indirectly (i.e. hey, wanna grab dinner? if you are both working late) or – least direct and possibly the least effective – tell him you are single and if he knows anyone you might be interested in.
Anon
Hah! It’s not to that level, but it certainly is an odd, dysfunctional place! Suggesting certain individuals date is not even the strangest, sadly. Part of why I’ll be gone within a year!
That’s what I’ve done before, and it just didn’t seem wise. On the other hand, I tend to follow logic and safe paths to my own detriment, so want to see if that’s what I’m doing here. He knows I’m single already, and we do go out at times, usually in a small group, so I don’t know how to make it clearly a date without specifying it or just passively waiting for him to do something (unlikely). As my friend said, he also might be thinking the same as I am (work/friendship), since we’re similar in that way. He also might not at all see me like that!
This is what I expected to hear. If nothing else, it makes me feel better that I’m not being overly safe here if I don’t do anything.
Cb
I’m married to a co-worker but it was a particular set of circumstances – it was a part-time grad school job for me, a career job for him so if had gone wrong, it wouldn’t be forever. He waited to ask me out until we knew each other quite well and did it in a low-key way so we could pretend it never happened if I said no. He wasn’t my manager and colleagues were fine with it (they all came to the wedding!)
I’m biased because if I had followed the no dating at work “rule”, I wouldn’t be married to the most lovable man but I think you should go for it.
Anon
That’s such a nice story! :)
How did he ask you?
We do know each other well, and realistically I won’t be here more than another year. I’m technically above him in the hierarchy, but really we’re on the same level and report to the same boss. I do think colleagues would encourage/be supportive, but, if we did date, I wouldn’t want to tell anyone for a while until we saw if it actually was something. We see each other multiple times each day, though, so it’d be awkward if it went poorly… though I think we’re both the type to get over that for work.
Anon
I’m happily partnered to a co-worker. We got together when he mentioned that people assumed we were dating – looking back, it was sort of a test balloon, I think. I was floored (recently divorced, uncomfortable with the idea of gossip.) But it started the conversation.
I started working there the week he told his wife he was moving out, so we saw each others’ divorces up close. That helped both of us feel confident that the other person was not someone who slashed and burned at the end of a relationship. We did not tell anyone we were dating for more than a year, and probably only a handful of people know now. That seems key to me to avoid gossip and people worrying about how our department makes decisions, etc.
Good luck.
Anon
Thanks! Yeah, I wouldn’t want to tell anyone for a long time and would be careful not to spend so much time in each other’s offices, etc. Neither of us are high up, anyway, so the only concerns would be awkwardness and that work was still getting done. Unfortunately, neither of us have been in a relationship for a long time, but from what I know of his past relationships, he’s not.
Thanks for sharing; I’m glad it is working out so well for you!
Regina Phalange
As part of a performance evaluation process, I am asked to provide constructive criticism on a coworker. This will be provided to Coworker verbatim, but anonomized. Cowowrker’s manager will see the feedback as well as that it came from me. I’m having trouble constructively putting into words the following concepts:(i) Coworker interrupts or talks over people in meetings in a disruptive and frustrating way and (ii) Coworker indirectly and sometimes directly makes it clear how important to the organization she views herself and how unimportant Coworker views other departments and people Coworker deems to be beneath her.
Any ideas on appropriate wording that also makes the concepts clear?
Anon
I have those issues (and others) with a male coworker and wish we had anonymous (or even any) fellow reviews.
Based on what you said, I would suggest the following a a starting point, though it may be more or less couched than you want:
CW could work on improving how she presents and relates to others in the organization. One example of this is meetings, where speaking over and interrupting others occurs frequently. Instead, CW may consider listening to others’ statements before contributing in a more collaborative manner. Another example is in general interactions with others, where CW has a tendency to make statements and inferences to how important she is over others. This superiority attitude takes away from the overall dynamic and this inhibits work.
Out Of Place Engineer
You can’t win with these things. Don’t put anything in writing that you wouldn’t say to your coworker directly. In stead of anonymously stating these things, can you address it as it happens? (Coworker interupts while you are talking in a meeting. Make direct eye contact and say “I wasn’t fininshed.” And continue talking.)
I think that you could try to address number one with something along the lines of “Coworker should be aware of letting others complete their thoughts before jumping in with his/her ideas in meetings” but I wouldn’t address number two in a peer review.
Anonymous
I like these simple comfy pants.
Just came back from my local Farmer’s Market.
A lot women were covered in spandex. Lots of leggings, as it is getting a little cool.
Please…. wear longer shirts….. I know WAY to much about your anatomy, your waxing habits….just….. no. I don’t care how young you are, fit you are, how good you think you look. You are sharing TMI.
That is all
Anonymous
Nonsense. There is no way you saw pubic hair under leggings.
Sherrie
Obviously you have different anatomy and hair growth than some of us.
You are fortunate.
Anonymous
+1, I’ve seen a lot of underwear lines, but I’ve never seen pubic hair (or lack of) through leggings
anon
Not sure why people are focused on the hair issues. Clearly leggings (especially the thinner common types) are not a flattering look for most women’s privates. Who cares about underwear lines. I don’t want to see the outline of your anatomy. There’s a reason why speedos for men are not a good look, and leggings are the equivalent for women.
nona
I’m pretty sure a swimsuits/bikini bottom is the equivalent of a Speedo for women.
The focus on the hair was because you mentioned grooming habits. Stop obsessing about and attempting to police other people’s bodies. It’s not your job.
Anonymama
I think spandex leggings for men are actually the male equivalent of spandex leggings for women. Do you not have cyclists where you live? Or men who run in running tights?
cc
People are focused on it because it makes it clear you are lying or exaggerating. My rant will be about people who can’t avert there eyes when they see something they don’t like.
Anonymous
that is so ridiculous.
I hate when women police other women’s bodies and outfits.
Don’t we get enough of this already without doing it to one another?
Anonymous
Maybe you’re just out of touch with the modern world? Pretty sure this is your issue and nobody else’s.
Anon
What kind of person walks around a Farmer’s Market staring at women’s crotches? Perverts.
Anon
The son of a friend of mine just graduated law school and submitted a resume to me. In it, he addressed me as “Mrs. Anon.” I’m not married. Do I tell him that he should avoid using “Mrs” in applications?
Anonymous
Yes! Sign your response:
Best,
Jill (pls call me Jill, but FYI it’s Ms. not Mrs., and Ms. Is usually a safer guess professionally)
Anonymous
With coworkers, students when I was teaching, and in numerous other situations I’ve found numerous people are clueless about using Ms. instead of Mrs.
prematurely gray-haired Anon
OMG, yes, this. It seems so many people don’t know what either Ms. or Mrs. means.
Some people just think that “Mrs.” applies to older women/women with gray hair.
Anonymous
I would be more explicit. This response implies that you’re not a Mrs. because you’re not married and it’s wrong to assume that women are married, but “Mrs” is ok for married women, which it’s not (in the workplace).
I would say “Please call me Jill. PS. “Ms.” is generally the appropriate way of addressing women professionally, unless they are doctors or tell you they prefer another salutation.”
Anonymous
I disagree with this. I think plenty of married woman use Mrs. in the professional context – more than I know who use Ms. I’m in a major northeast city, though deal in industries that tend to be less progressive.
That being said, if you don’t know, Ms. is my default. I’ve had people upset at my using Ms. instead of Mrs. before, though. I don’t find it a situating that I run into too often – usually I know which they use before writing it out, I suppose!
anon
Right but “Ms.” is the appropriate default, whereas “Mrs.” is NEVER the default; you call someone “Mrs.” in a professional context only if they tell you to (because how would you even know they were married?)
Anonymous
Sorry, I think I read this too quickly earlier. I was saying I disagreed with Mrs never being appropriate professionally but now realize that’s not what was being said.
Anonymous
I was actually saying that Mrs. is never appropriate professionally, unless a woman specifically requests to be called that. Anyone can identify a preferred salutation for themselves, but the default salutation for women, even ones that are known to be married, is absolutely Ms. not Mrs. I’m a lawyer in New England and I do not know a single woman who uses “Mrs” for herself and I do not know anyone who addresses women that way when they’re trying to be formal. I am married and am happy to be called Mrs. X socially (I took my husband’s name) but I would be horrified if anyone except an intern addressed me as “Mrs” at work and if an intern did it I would absolutely correct it and tell them to use “Ms” for formal address until specifically told otherwise.
Ekaterin Nile
Yes, as a favor (assuming you’re trying to help him in his job search since he’s the son of a friend). You should tell him that the default in a professional setting is Ms. regardless of marital status.
I recently received a thank you note from a male candidate for a summer associate position addressing me as Mrs. It came across as unprofessional and confirmed my decision not to recommend him for a callback.
Of course, we just had the male candidate come through our group who carefully asked all the women he interviewed with about “balance” but none of the men….
Dress for DC wedding guest late Oct.
Any ideas for dress to wear to a primarily outdoor DC wedding in late Oct? Bonus challenge: I will be 5 months pregnant, so bump friendly please. I am leaning towards a maxi dress for warmth. TIA!