Weekend Open Thread

Something on your mind? Chat about it here. 

It feels like it should be spring, and it should be warm, and so if you’re a bit bummed that you can’t wear slinkier tops for going out this weekend, and if you don’t even want to think about cold shoulder tops, this kind of cutout seems like a fun, edgy way too do a casual look. I wouldn’t wear the cutout to the office, but I would possibly wear the blouse underneath a blazer or cardigan and then when I’m heading out Friday or Saturday — desk-to-dinner kind of dressing — take off the top layer. It’s only $69 and comes in sizes XXS-XL. Cutout Surplice Top

Here are two similar options in plus sizes.

Psst: Happy St. Patrick’s Day! Be safe out there tonight if you’re planning on drinking a lot (and of course, go for extra moisturizer afterwards, like readers recommended on Tuesday’s discussion of the best makeup products to fake a good night’s sleep.)

This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!


  1. Anonymous :

    My number one goal in life is to be a judge. I am not ready to run yet, so I’m hoping for an appointment. I didn’t get the last one I sought, but there hasn’t been another opening in the last two years since. I’m in big law right now as an 8th year, and I’m really not liking it. So, I would like most to be a judge, and second most to be a civil litigator at a boutique with lower rates where I can develop business. But the problem is that it is way easier to become a judge out of a big law firm. So my question is how much longer do I give it? How long do I do something I don’t enjoy with the hope that it will pay off in letting me do what I really want to do?

    • Anonymous :

      What kind of judge do you want to be? I have to say that 8 years out seems really, really soon to me.

      • Anonymous :

        We had a senior associate that was probably somewhere in the 8-10 range who left to become a federal magistrate judge. So it happens.

      • Yay! Open thread’s! I love Open thread’s and I would also like to be a judge. I figure that I have worked many year’s in Workman’s Compensation, and could become a Workman’s Compensation Judge since I have written many Breif’s that my judge literally has copied into his opinion’s. He once asked the manageing partner for me to write paragraph’s into my soft copy that could easily be lifted and pasted into his opinion by Louis, his law clerk. Louis is a guy who has alot of experience but is NOT a lawyer. The judge is DUE to retire by 2019 under the law, so I think that by that time, the judge could throw my name up to the Chief Administrative Judge, who will recommend my appointement. I hope the HIVE would support me if I am nominated, b/c I have given alot of good advise over the years to the HIVE. YAY!!

      • How many years out is Ellen?🤷🏿‍♀️ I would think she would think she’s eminently qualified!

    • Senior Attorney :

      Do you really understand what is required to be a judge and are you doing what it takes to get an appointment? In almost every jurisdiction it is breathtakingly political. There are certain people who control who gets appointed, and that may or may not be the people who have the official titles such as Judicial Appointments Secretary. Are you connected with somebody who is connected with those people? Being appointed to the bench is a type of political campaign all its own. Are you running your campaign now, so that you will be in position to get the appointment when the opening comes up?

      If you are doing all those things, then hang in there and shoot for the next opening. If not, then go ahead and abandon ship now.

      • Anonymous :

        Yes. I was called out of the blue and asked to apply for the last one, and then they said I was at the top of the list the next time there was an opening. The problem is that I’m up for partner soon – or not.

        • Senior Attorney :

          Well then. I’d hang in there for sure.

          • Anonymous :

            It’s just been so long. Two years already, and no certainty of anything soon. I feel like I’m torturing myself when it’s still a long shot that I will get one. Argh. I also feel like at some point I will get too old to lateral to a smaller firm.

          • Paging Ellen! Where’s Ellen? She’d have a pertinent if not snappy answer here! Ellen, please call home! We miss you!

        • Anonymous :

          If you’re already on their radar (whoever “they” is …I really don’t know much about the judge selection process), I would think what firm you’re at matters a lot less. If you’re just a random person submitting a resume, being at a Big Name Firm is going to automatically give your resume prestige and attention. But if they know you and are interested specifically in you, which it sounds like they are, I can’t imagine that changing just because you move to a boutique firm, assuming the firm is regarded as ethical and is prosperous (and if it isn’t you shouldn’t go there anyway). Wanting to develop your own business is a pretty good reason for wanting to move from Big Law to a smaller boutique firm. You also don’t lose all the prestige of Big Law just by leaving. You’ll always have that firm on your resume.
          – Just my two cents as someone who really knows nothing about becoming a judge.

          • Senior Attorney :

            That’s a great point, too. Why do you think it would hurt to make a move?

          • One other related thought: If going to the boutique firm will give you more face time in court, then that may be a positive move.

      • You may need to bang the screening committee.

        • This is why it’s hard to read the comments section here a lot of times. If you’re joking, stupid joke. If you’re not, you are crass and a useless asshat. This person asked for actual advice, not bullshit.

    • As a judge, please allow me to give you some advice. First you should really think about why you want to be a judge and whether you are up for any and all judicial assignments. They aren’t all glamorous and some can be very trying and tedious. You should also think about what you are doing to connect yourself to the community where you want to be judge. It’s not just about your big name law firm, and frankly, it shouldn’t be. You are serving the people in a community. How do you connect with them? Are you involved in associations or groups? Do you volunteer? You may also benefit from more years of experience.

  2. Love the top! But… it is sheer. Aaargh.

    Kat, could you write a post on good camisoles to go with sheer tops with different cuts? Halterneck, deep V, open back…

    Clothing manufacturers, could you re-introduce proper opaque fabrics?

    • Clothing manufacturers :

      Thanks for the suggestion, but thin fabric is cheaper! Besides, haven’t you heard that layering is a permanent trend? Can I interest you in the additional shirts you now always need to wear? They’re around the same price!

    • I found myself tempted to seek out a nude-for-me tube top last year. Then I thought, what the h!ll am I doing? But ugh, I have no idea how you’re supposed to wear some of these sheerer tops without either completely ruining the look or showing the goods.

    • I’ve had good luck with a cheap nude-for-me BP cami from Nordstrom’s juniors department. The BP Stretch Camisole that they have right now for $12 looks pretty close to the one I have (I got mine a few years ago). The shades are very limited, though.

    • I don’t love the idea of a nude for you camisole. It doesn’t do anything to dispel the impression that the garment is sheer.

      A boutique owner in my neighborhood taught me to match the cami to whatever I’m wearing on the bottom half. For instance, White sheer top, black skirt or pants = black camisole. It gives a cohesive, intentional look. Try it out.

    • Sydney Bristow :

      Every time I try to buy a light colored top, I’m re-inspired to learn about clothing manufacturing and start a line of totally opaque white tops in sizes 00-4X. I swear I’m going to do that someday.

  3. Canadians not being able to enter the US :

    Is there much coverage on the problem of Canadians being denied entry to the US? It’s being cover pretty widely in Canada but I haven’t seen much when reading the US news. Two incidents/issues in particular up here are getting a lot of coverage – a church group denied entry for the purposes of volunteer work, even with a supporting letter from the parish in New Jersey, and more recently Canadian specialized nurses being denied entry because they no longer qualify for a certain type of work visa for their current jobs in Michigan. It seems that even beyond the travel ban, there are increasing restrictions on entering the country.

    • Anonymous :

      That hasn’t gotten much or any coverage, as far as I know. I’m guessing it’s getting drowned out by all the other…stuff.

    • Ya I expect the story of a brown Canadian woman being rejected at the border because she didn’t have a visa (when Canadians don’t need visas) is not newsworthy compared to everything else happening in the US now…

      • Anonymous :

        Actually this particular story did make the rounds. The others I did not hear about, I would generally consider myself well informed.

    • There is more coverage here north of the border. Some groups are not going to the US for fear some group members might be rejected at the border. One group is the Girl Guides of Canada and another is a group of Vancouver soccer fans which has an internationally diverse membership. This all has an impact on border states that have businesses that rely on Canadian customers.

    • I heard earlier today that the Canadian nurses got their work permits and can work as before.

  4. PSA that Nordstrom is price-matching certain clothing and beauty items (some other retailer must be having a sale). I’ve had an Origins night cream and some AG jeans in my cart for awhile, and they both magically dropped to 20% off today.

  5. I’m graduating college in a few months and need to build a professional wardrobe from scratch. I tend to wear neutrals and don’t mind recycling outfits. I’d love to buy machine washable clothes if possible. What pieces are staples in your wardrobe? I know I’d like a few solid knee length dresses but am not sure where to look.

    • Also, any professional (and affordable) flat shoes you’d recommend?

      • I would recommend Franco Sarto or J Crew wedges with a platform , either in pumps /peep toe or sling backs. If you get shoes with a 3/4″ platform and a 2 3/4″ heel it is like wearing 2″ flats that look like high heels. The shoes will look great with skirts and dresses, look professional, be reasonably priced and be as comfortable as flats. Win Win!

      • Sam Edelman is comfy, although be aware that if there’s a string bow on your shoe, it’s business casual acceptable but not business formal acceptable, so just make sure you’re buying what you need. I’ve also heard good things about Louise et Cie and some of the better-looking Rockport options, although I don’t own any of their shoes. I don’t know how picky your feet are…for whatever reason, I get blisters from almost any shoe that sells for under $100 MSRP, so what I did starting out is to scan 6pm for discounts on Cole Haan, Born, and Taryn Rose.

    • Senior Attorney :

      They’re pricey, but MM LaFleur’s dresses are machine washable and I love them. I’m wearing the Nisa in green today!

    • Marshmallow :

      I haven’t done this, but other posters here really like the 4×4 capsule wardrobe idea:


      Some specific things that are staples in my wardrobe include my Ann Taylor suits (boring, sorry), ankle length trousers, sheath dresses (I have good luck with MM Lafleur, Ann Taylor, and J. Crew), and silk shirts from Everlane. Also, spend the time and money to get fitted for good bras. That will make your affordable tops and dresses fit much better and look more polished.

      The most comfortable flats I’ve ever owned are the French Sole New York “Passport” flats with the leather sole (not the new ones with the rubber sole). Watch for sales because they’ve been around forever.

      • Piggybacking on this comment: has anyone done a capsule wardrobe before?? The link leads to so many cool capsule wardrobe links inspired by color schemes, art, nature, etc!! But I’m curious if people actually do this in real life…

        • I did it this winter. I work with mostly men, so litterally no one noticed. I explained the concept to my partner and his response was essentially: “I do that too… with my 5 suits and limited number of shirts!” (He transitioned out of the military less than 2 years ago, so his is more of a work in progress than an intentional “capsule.”) If you think about it in compairson to the average white-collar male work-wardrobe, it really doesn’t seem that limited.

        • I do. Mostly when I’m traveling, but I will also cull a cohesive capsule out of my existing clothing for what I know is going to be a busy work week. I don’t pre plan outfits. I just say, this week it’s gray and navy and I put 4 bottoms, 4 tops and 2-4 third pieces (jacket or structured cardigans) together in the middle of my closet, along with shoes and scarves I’d wear with them. Then the mornings are super easy.

          Basically this is how I travel too.

        • Sort of… I’m making more of an effort to look for a consistent color palate. I had too many orphan tops and think this is my way of avoiding them.

      • Was going to recommend either the 4×4 or the Common Wardrobe on the same site.

        Yes, I did this – the 4×4 concept. I tend to do it by season, since my midwestern city has very distinct seasons (summer is HOT, winter is COLD). But by the time I got to the second year, I found I wanted a little more variety. So then I borrowed a sort-of-concept from her blog, the French 5-piece, and let myself buy 5 pieces in a new accent color.

        So let’s say my spring 4×4 is built on coral, turquoise, black, and gray. I wore all of it last year and it doesn’t feel fresh. So I’ll add in a French 5-piece with floral teals and creams. Only 5 pieces added, and totally expands my options. At the end of the season, I donate my French 5-piece (or replace one of my base colors if I love it) and I’ve still spent less than I usually would for the season.

        I love being more targeted in my shopping now, looking for the perfect teal tee shirt with the right amount of floral pattern and feeling. Makes it more satisfying when I find THE piece and brings a lot more joy to my shopping.

        I’m clearly in love with the concept.

    • I’d wait to buy most work clothes until you start your job, so you can see what level of formality people have in your office. You should have a few professional outfits for interviews and networking events before that. Banana Republic and Ann Taylor are good places to go to get a feel for inexpensive to mid-level workwear.

      For professional flats, my go-to is Cole Haan. You can often find them on sale at Nordstrom Rack.

      • Anonymous :

        Agreed. I stocked up on some items I definitely did not need to for my current business casual office. You need an interviewing outfit or two to start, but until you know it’s not usually worth it to buy too much unless there’s a sale.

    • While MMLaFleur is gorgeous, I know it’s far more spendy than I could have afforded straight out of school. For simple and affordable sheath dresses, perhaps try Lands End. They’re machine washable and come in all sorts of solids and prints. You can certainly spiff them up with a fun belt/scarf/blazer to be a bit more fashionable, but they really are excellent quality basics.

      For comfortable yet professional looking flats, I swear by Clarks. Yes, they do have some shoes that don’t look orthopedic! I have some simple ballet flats as well as some with pointed toes that I think read a bit dressier for the office.

      I also have good luck at Ann Taylor factory stores. Lots of machine washable options there that are usually quite versatile.

      • Anonymous :

        Yes, I recently re-discovered Lands End. Try to wait until they have a big sale (Pres Day was 40% off everything). Good basics, pretty well made, esp. for the price.

    • Buy two black and one gray or navy pants, and one or two black pencil skirts from Banana or Jcrew on a sale day. They’ll be $45-90 depending on the sale and will last a couple seasons. Dresses are tougher so scour their sale rack, as well as nordstrom, and you can get lucky for around $60-80. Tops… well, you’re on your own. Retailers don’t really make work-appropriate tops that I’m aware of much anymore; everything is long, blousy, and sheer!

      • Yup this is the right advice when starting a new job. I bought a black suit and a navy suit from Banana Republic, both the pants and the pencil skirt option. You can buy more, upgrade, replace as needed but these are great core pieces at a decent price. J Crew Factory might also be a good affordable option but I don’t know how the quality holds. I have picked up a few dresses there and have been happy.

        Tops are tough like Duckles says. I buy whenever I find something that fits and I can mix/match. Also, my favourite button ups are from Eddie Bauer – I wouldn’t have normally considered them for workwear.

      • +2 to this, plus also look at the Nordstrom store brands for workwear, like Halogen.

    • Rainbow Hair :

      My favorite dress brands are:
      Ellen Tracy (I have the seamed ponte sheath dress in three colors and get compliments every time I wear it. I have a few others too.)
      Tahari (I love the Elbow Length Sleeve Bi-Stretch Sheath Dress)
      Maggy London/London Times (they have dresses they call “extended short sleeve” which are basically elbow-length sleeves)

      I never pay full price for them: I stalk them on Amazon (use CamelCamelCamel dot com) or wait for sales. I put all of these in the wash (gentle/hand wash cycle) and line dry.

      I agree that you shouldn’t buy a ton of stuff yet, but buy stuff that you feel good about, and good in. I hate pencil skirts and I’m so glad I stopped trying to make them work after [mumblety] years. I love dresses with sleeves because it’s only one decision — no layers or matching to consider! If you’re going with dresses, I’d get a few simple ones in solid, neutral colors. If you like the way they look, I think you’ll be able to make them work in most environments.

      • Anonymous :

        omg, pencil skirts. I *just* figured out that I hate them, 13 years later. Ugh. Definitely try to figure out your preferred silouhettes, both in terms of what looks good on you, but also what feels good. Pencil skirts look great on me, but I hate them. I feel like a bound geisha.

        • Rainbow Hair :

          I can’t even tell if I look good because I am like “UGH why does it feel like this get it off omg is the slit showing my butt why am i wearing this whyyyy!?”

    • Anonymous :

      I would say look at the Limited for machine-washable, knee-length sheath dresses, but alas, they closed. So I would encourage you to search Ebay, ThredUp, and other second-hand online retailers for the Limited stuff. Also, check Ann Taylor (sales), Banana (sales), and JCrew (again, sales). Also, check Nordstrom.

    • Marshalls/Nordstrom Rack/TJ Maxx: I lived in ~$50 work dresses from these retailers until I was a couple years post Masters degree. I was crsuhed when Calvin Klein basically stopped making dresses with linings.

      Thrift/Consignment: I’m wearing a gorgeous printed faux wrap dress today that I get compliments on almost every time I wear… which I paid $12 for three years ago at a Savers. Look for quality brands when you thrift. ThredUp is also a great option if you’d like to thrift from the comfort of your couch.

      Boden: If you’re going to pay a bit more (but not MM LaFleur prices), I haven’t found anything that beats the quality of Boden’s work dresses. Lined, thick fabrics, flattering but conservative cuts. I did a capsule work wordrobe this winter that was over 50% Boden dresses. (Although, I’d caution against the prints for many offices.)

    • Anonymous :

      To find out brands and styles that fit you best, I would go to a bloomingdales/saks and try on suits/separates/dresses for fit. Theory and Boss make some really nice workwear with great cuts.

      I got all my theory suits from loehmanns on deep discount back in the day, and now stalk the outlets or flash sales. Once you know your sizes you can check flash sale sites or thredup for classic pieces that will wear really well. My first Theory suit is 9 years old (!) and has logged over 200k miles traveling with me. I got a classic charcoal grey which is super versatile and wears amazingly.

      Obviously BR, Jcrew, etc have great options at a lower price point, but I always had a hard time getting their clothes to fit me properly.

      when in doubt go more classic; you can always change up looks with scarves and jewelry which is much less expensive than a new blazer.

    • Anonymous :

      If you’re looking for a basic suit for interviews, Ann Taylor just put all of their charcoal gray seasonless suiting on sale, plus there’s an additional 40% off right now, so you could probably get 3 pieces of a suit (jacket, skirt, and pants) for less than $200. They still had a bunch of different cuts of pants, a skirt, and a jacket in many sizes when I checked. I have a few pieces of their suiting in black and the fabric/cuts make it really easy to break up into separates for the actual job.

    • Spend some free time going to different stores and trying on their business clothes so you get a feel for what brands/styles fit you best.
      Depending on your budget, make a list of what you want to buy when (i.e. using your student discount while it’s still available vs. having a parents take you shopping for professional clothes if that’s an option). It could be that your parents are willing to gift you a new suit for graduation, but day to day blouses/dresses are something you need to buy for yourself.

    • Anonymous :

      One of the best under-used resources for cheap workwear is Amazon. They have a lot of brands of clothing that department stores have, and free shipping/returns if you’re a Prime member. Because of their weird metrics (I’m not even going to pretend to know how they work), items will randomly go on really deep discount for a couple days (or hours) at a time, usually only in random sizes. The discounts can be VERY deep on occasion (think 70-80% off) — I recently got a this-season Theory suit that would have retailed for ~$800 on sale for under $200.

      “Starter” workwear brands to look for on Amazon include Calvin Klein, T Tahari, Anne Klein, Nine West, Ellen Tracy, and Kasper.

      • Rainbow Hair :

        reiterating that camel camel camel dot com is a great way to stalk those amazon sales. put in the thing you want and the price you want for it, and when it gets there it’ll send you an email. i have lots of $100-ish dresses i picked up for $30-ish.

    • Sydney Bristow :

      My favorite pencil skirt is the basic Calvin Klein pencil skirt. I’ll link to it in the reply. It is machine washable and has held up well for me. Fully lined, completely basic staple.

      I’ll also second the recommendation for Boden if you can afford it. Their quality is just better than so much of what is available at the chain stores lately. The Ravello top in either the regular scoop neckline or the v-neck can be great if the fit works for you. They always carry it in several colors and prints.

      Gap used to carry pretty good pants. I think they were called the Perfect Fit or Modern Fit Trousers. Not sure if they still do or if the quality is the same, but worth looking into.

      And I’d echo the advice above to not buy too much until you start your job and get to know your office. And when you do start buying, consider whether a sort of uniform will work for you. My uniform is a pencil skirt, knit top (or the Boden Ravello), and a cardigan. I’ve been starting to work in some jackets instead of cardigans lately too. My base colors are gray and black. Cardigans are where I get some colors in. Almost everything goes with everything else. That makes it easy to get dressed every day and also mix it up a little bit.

      • Sydney Bristow :

        Here’s the link to the skirt. I think there is a “regular” size version as well and I’m pretty sure the same skirt is available at other retailers. http://www.lordandtaylor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/lord-and-taylor/womens-apparel/wa-specialsizes-plussize-shortsskirts/plus-pencil-skirt-0187-s2sl705d–1

    • I’d vote for: navy suit, banana republic non-iron shirts (aka Riley), J crew jackie sweater set, black pants or skirt. Those are your basics. You can wear the non-iron shirt for an interview with the suit, or the shell from the jackie set + suit. I also love to layer the shell over my button-down shirts with pants or a skirt.

    • As a 3L with a very small budget but 2 summers of biglaw under my belt, here is my advice for a starter wardrobe:

      I really recommend Burlington for suits! You can almost always get a full Calvin Klein suit for about $60. You can find nice shoes there too (9 West heels are super comfortable). Believe it or not I love the Christian Siriano flats from Payless. ($20/bogo 1/2 off!) New York and Company / Express can have pretty good deals on dress shirts.

  6. Boston Biotechie :

    I have my eye on upgrading to the Lo & Sons OMG soon-ish. Does anyone recall if/when they typically have sales or promo codes? Is it worth waiting?

    • Sloan Sabbith :

      Almost every holiday (including Presidents’ Day, etc). Get on their email list, for sure.

    • They have a ton of sales, often 25-40% off. hold out for a coupon code and don’t pay full price.

    • Google “Lo & Sons coupon code” for sale options right now. retailmenot is a reputable site and they have several coupons listed.

  7. CrowTRobot :

    Feeling anxious about taking my 12-yr-old cat to the vet this afternoon. My poor ol’ girl gets very stressed out being in the carrier, but I am also nervous about the vet exam. My cat’s behavior has changed over the past 6 months, and I can’t help but assume the worst.

    Not asking for advice or anything. Just putting my worries into the anonymous internet ether.

    • Senior Attorney :

      Good luck! Come back and let us know how it went!

    • I hope it all goes well! My 16 year old princess kitty HATES going to the evil v-e-t and hates being in the carrier and is terrified of dogs when we get there. But my vet is great with her and I just try to comfort her as much as I can, both on the way there (zip open the carrier and pet her) and once we get there (take her out and hold her close). Poor babies. The yowling is nearly unbearable, isn’t it?

      I’ll be thinking about you. Please check back.

    • Not that Anne, the other Anne :

      Good luck and thank you for taking good care of your poor beloved girl, even if she doesn’t seem to think so at the time.

    • Marshmallow :

      Good luck and positive cat woowoo coming your way!

    • cat socks :

      Sending lots of good vibes your way! Vet visits are stressful, but you are doing the right thing by having her checked out.

      I can relate to the anxiety though. I took my older kitty to the vet this week b/c I noticed increased water consumption. Turns out she has some elevated kidney levels, but we caught it early and can help manage it via diet and sub-q fluids. I was a nervous wreck waiting for the test results.

    • Hugs!! If it helps, I did this with my 10+ year old cat last year. Even though the news wasn’t good, it was all curable stuff. There was an awful 3 months where she was on tons of meds and a surgery, but she is literally better than ever right now. I don’t remember her ever having this much energy (or attitude for that matter). Hoping yours is a much easier resolution, but they can pull through a lot.

    • lost academic :

      Is it possible for you to not use the carrier? While I know this likely doesn’t work for most, my cat does much better NOT in the carrier both in the car and at the vet – I always have the carrier on hand, but I usually have a towel so she doesn’t accidentially claw my shoulder when I’m holding her against it (her favorite). She’s about the same age as yours.

      • PatsyStone :

        So late to this but I had to add my mom used to use an old pillowcase as cat carrier for vet trips when I was little. Seemed perfectly normal at the time.

    • CrowTRobot :

      Thanks everyone! Reading your comments is making me feel better… 2 hours until the appointment.

      My husband imagines himself the cat whisperer and offered to get her in the cage before I get home. Then we will immediately leave for the vet, which is just down the street. I have my doubts, but I hope he’s successful! She may be old, but she finds that speed when she suspects foul play.

    • Threadjack of a threadjack but has anyone tried those soft fabric carriers they advertise on Facebook? They’re the ones that look like a nylon shopping bag where the head sticks out.

      My old chubby grey neutered Tom is a sweetheart 99% of the time but becomes a wild, biting, clawing tiger when you try to either put him into a carrier or trim his claws. Basically, he is convinced that I, the person who feeds him and pets him and cleans his litter box, am trying to kill him. He bit through my thumbnail once, and that was every bit as fun as it sounds.

      So I’m kind of a sucker for ads for cat carriers that are supposed to be easier, but I’d like to hear some actual testimonials before I get snookered into giving them my digits. (Visa digits, not the thumb my boy bit through)

      • I haven’t but I did switch to a soft-sided carrier with a zip top. Previously, I had a hard carrier that had the doors in the front and on top. Worst ever. We were evacuating for a hurricane and the toperson didn’t latch properly. Almost lost a kitty.

      • Rainbow Hair :

        I have a soft sided carrier that I love. It’s some pricy stuff they tricked me into getting because my kitties are so important to me. Sherpa something something.

        The trick I use to get kitty into it is to unzip the top (making sure the front entrance is closed) and then scoop kitty up and *gently* put him in BACK FIRST. So his claws and feet are pointing up at you. The advantage to this is that he can’t spread his legs out to go outside of the edge of the carrier and foil your attempts to get him in.

  8. My life is objectively NOT worth living. :

    And I don’t know what to do about this. I am TRAPPED in my job for geographic/family reasons. I work and sleep and work some more. I made a great salary but soon will be crippled by $10k/month assisted living bills for my dad, so I am saving furiously. My life is my job and my sick father. I don’t have hobbies anymore, I don’t work out anymore (NO energy), I don’t watch ANY tv or movies, I don’t read. Last year I sold my condo in a walkable neighborhood I loved to save money and rent in an area a 25 min drive from work and I want to sl!t my wrists every day as I drive and miss my walk (and my only exercise).

    Every day I cry in my office’s parking garage, then steel myself to go in and fight another day. My major life goal is having enough money to survive on when I have a total nervous breakdown and an unemployable for the rest of my life.

    I’m 36. And I deserve this for leaving my (abusive) marriage 8 years ago. I just wish God would stop punishing me, even as I know that it was *MY* stupidity that brought me here. I hate myself and for excellent reasons that would fill a book.

    Help? Where do I start? Please don’t tell me to take time off – this will not help b/c I will arrive back to over 1,000 work emails. At which point I really will start hurting myself.

    • Senior Attorney :

      Please call the National Suicide Prevention Hotline at 1-800-273-8255 if you feel like there is any chance at all you might hurt yourself. Please, please, please.

      That’s where to start.

      Then find yourself a therapist and get your butt on his or her couch. Pronto.

      You don’t have to feel like this, I promise.

    • Anonymous :

      Can you call an elder care agency and see if you can get your parent eligible for medicare / medicaid? Or respite care for him so you can get a break?

      If you are paying 10K of their bills a month, you proably have a dependent for tax purposes and you may have a gift tax problem if you’re not paying the carer / center directly.

      • Anonymous :

        That was my first thought. Drain his assets, not your assets, and get him on Medicaid. It may not be the nicest nursing home/ALF but this is not your burden. I know it feels like it is, but if the choice is between your sanity and happiness, then it is not a choice. He goes on Medicaid and you get the freedom to make decisions that benefit you. Please go talk to someone about this, regardless of what you decide. Caregivers need support. I’ve been there and it is hard.

    • You don’t deserve this. And you may not feel able to take time off, which is completely understandable — but please take two hours to set up appointments with your doctor and a therapist, because you DO deserve help. Medication may assist you in feeling better able to tackle everything weighing you down; therapy may, too.

      Are there resources in your community that can assist your father? If he’s receiving treatment, a patient advocate may be able to put you in touch with someone who can lift some of the burden from your shoulders. Caregiving is expensive and incredibly draining, but depending on your area, there are resources that can assist.

      Also consider whether you can speak to your supervisor and ask for some support at work. You don’t need to divulge everything, but there may be ways that a compassionate boss or coworkers can help alleviate some of the strain.

      • Men like yours should be strung up by their Nutellas! Their sex just isn’t worth it. And they stink up the toilet with their coprolites.

    • anon in SV :

      You’re engaged in some serious catastrophic thinking.

      1) if you are actually experiencing suicidal ideation, you need to seek professional help immediately. Medication, therapy. Immediately. None of this is worth hurting yourself over. You are CLEARLY depressed from what you are saying; the only question is whether you need to go immediately to a crisis hotline or whether you can manage to seek treatment on your own.

      2) I cannot imagine that your father would want you to hurt yourself out of stress/anxiety caused by him. If you need to put him in medicare-assisted living because you cannot afford it without literally becoming a danger to yourself, then that’s what you need to do. I understand you may prefer to have your father retire into the Very Best Care Available, but I’m sorry, life is really not fair. My FIL’s mother is in medicare-assisted living instead of fancy assisted living, and she’s doing ok. This country’s (assuming you are in the US)’s failure to take care of its elderly is not something you can single-handedly fix if only you would “just work harder”.

      3) Leaving your abusive marriage was a great thing to do but clearly you are still in thinking patterns that were pushed onto you during that time. I have no personal experience in this area so I can’t speak to this, but NO ONE EVER DESERVES TO BE ABUSED EVER EVER EVER. YOU COULD BE THE DUMBEST WOMAN TO WALK THE FACE OF THE EARTH IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORTH AND YOU ****STILL*** DO NOT DESERVE TO BE ABUSED. EVER.

      If your God is punishing you for leaving your abusive marriage, then your God is an asshole and you need to find a new one.

      4) You are not alone. Your bad brain voice is a lying asshole and you need help to tell it to f off.

    • First off, internet hugs if you care for them.
      Life is dealing you a sh!t sandwich and it’s NOT, I repeat NOT your fault.
      Go to a doctor, even urgent care if you don’t have a primary and get some meds. Take the edge off so you can regroup a little bit and figure out if maybe therapy might be helpful or if you’re simply overwhelmed.
      If your work has an EAP, ask for some referrals to services and/or coping mechanisms that can help with all you’ve got on your plate. If there’s a 211 type referral line in your city, they may also be helpful. I’ve got an acquaintance here who works at the local 211 and in addition to referring for services, she also has extensive training in talking to folks whose lives are going a bit sideways and may be considering self-harm.
      You’re not alone and the things you have going on are NOT your fault.

    • Never too many shoes... :

      Yes to the above, of course.

      But also, you do NOT “deserve” this and certainly not for leaving an abusive marriage. If you believe in G-d (which it seems like you might), please consider speaking to a minister or pastor. Lots of churches have counselling programs and it seems like you could really use some support.

      You are 36 with a lot of life ahead – no matter how bleak things might be right now, it will not always be like this.

    • Marshmallow :

      You did not bring this on yourself and you do not deserve to feel this way. You are worthy. You are enough. You are strong.

      Please call the hotline Senior Attorney mentioned before you do anything else, and tell them you are considering self-harm. I have been there and it gets better. Sending you hugs and good vibes.

    • Anonymous :

      You don’t say how large your employer is, but if it is over 50 people and FMLA applies, don’t forget that you can take that in small pieces. If you need to take 1/2 day each week to help your dad, you can do that without worrying about having 1000 emails when you return. It can give a small release valve and you will always know that you have that block of time available.

    • My life is objectively NOT worth living. :

      I won’t really hurt myself (badly) as long as my dad is alive. I love him too much, even if taking care of his needs is draining and terrifying. I do try to have gratitude that he is alive. After he dies, I will be truly alone in life, so I want him to be here as long as possible.

      Though if I was accidentally hit by a bus, my ghost would not complain and he would be set for life since I have tons of life insurance on myself.

      I’ll think about therapy. I was in therapy for 4 years and it was something else for me to beat myself up about (“you spent thousands of dollars on counseling and it did you absolutely no good, you are stupid, stupid, stupid”).

      • You are enough. You are worthy. Do you hear me? You, not what you do, not what you have, you, you are enough. I promise that there is more beauty, love and abundance in this world than you can imagine, but you have to realize that you,right now, are enough.

      • Anonymous :

        It’s like being on an airplane. You have to put on your own oxygen mask first before you can help anyone else.

        Depression lies. Don’t listen. I felt and said many of the same things you are writing. There is help. Appropriate treatment works wonders. Therapy doesn’t benefit unless you are in a place biochemically where you can benefit.

        You are not stupid. Reach out for help, if not for yourself, do it for your Dad so you can be healthy enough to help him. You can’t continue like this. You owe it to yourself to get better. This internet stranger knows you deserve to get better and you can get better.

      • Any possibility that you’re more interested in escape than in actually ending it all? Your life sounds seriously stressful right now, and I think it would be natural to fantasize about escaping it.

        As for therapy, if that’s how you were feeling when you were going – you needed to bring that up with your therapist. Maybe your previous therapist wasn’t the right fit. You should look for a different therapist next time around, or ask for one who will work with you to define what it is you’re looking for out of therapy.

        Finally, are you on meds? I think even a low dose of an antidepressant could make a difference for you.

        Try to have a good weekend. I’ll be thinking of you.

      • anon in sv :

        Your inner voice is a jerk and a liar. You need to be in therapy to learn how to ignore that voice, or turn down its volume, or learn how to talk back to it. And probably supported by medication. You do not need to live this way. You do not deserve to live this way. There is absolutely nothing you could have done which would make you “deserve” to feel like this. I wonder if your inner voice sounds like your abuser and says the things your abuser said to you. No decent religion would ever agree that you did something to “deserve” to be abused.

        What you are describing about “being hit by a bus” is called suicidal ideation – no actual plans but no apparent problem with “ooops I’m dead”. Been there. Pretty soon it can lead to… I’ll just drive a little bit too close to the edge of the bridge shoulder here… not actually suicidal… but if an accident happened… then that would be ok… This is not a healthy brain at work. This is not ok. You are not ok. You need medical support immediately.

      • Blonde Lawyer :

        If you are a lawyer, consider calling your lawyer assistance program. If you want people to just listen, keep posting here or on reddit at r/suicidewatch. You do not have to be in immediate danger to call a suicide hotline or any other crisis line. They are there to listen while you talk. They can help point you in the right direction. Do you have disability insurance? If so, you might consider a medical leave of absence. I know a vacation sounds too stressful because work will just pile up while you are gone but a leave of absence would require someone to talk over your work until you returned. It sounds impossible but if you were dealing with another type of medical emergency, like if you had a heart attack or stroke, your work would find a way to cover you. Mental health emergencies are still medical emergencies.

        I understand that you love your dad and that you want what is best for him but you have to put on your own oxygen mask first. I don’t think I will ever be in a position in my lifetime to spend $10k/month on anyone’s care, my dad’s, my husband’s or my own. There has to be other options, even if they are not your first choice or dad’s first choice. Your dad also wants you to be happy.

        Start small with looking out for yourself. Schedule one thing a month, then one thing a week, and then one thing a day that you do just for you. It can be small like a cup of coffee you love or it could be bigger, like going to a concert. You need something to look forward to. One day at a time.

        If you don’t have a physical calendar/planner, get one. Only put in it the places you physically need to be and when. Not deadlines. Then , when you are overwhelmed, you can glance at it and see at least one day hopefully where you don’t have to be anywhere. The visual can help reduce your stress.

        For other interim ideas for things that are for you, consider acupuncture (combined with traditional medical care) to help with your anxiety/depression.

        Also, try calling a DV hotline to talk about the guilty feelings you still have about leaving an abusive marriage. You did the right thing. You’ve got this.

        • I agree with virtualy EVERYTHING Blond Lawyer says. You ARE important and you ARE going to bee OK. Your dad NEEDS you to be there for him, and you are probably worried about what will happen afterward to you, but that is why you can get medication AND therapy from a counseling professional. YES, the HIVE is here for you and we all are pulling for you. Dont focus on anything other than yourself getting better for you and your Dad. Life is to important to waste. You will survive and PROSPER with your dad, and in the future, you will be able to find a guy who is not abusive. Being with a looser is not where you ever want to be, and you were smart for DTMFA. I can NOT fathom the thought of ever living in an abusive relationship, and since you are about my age, you have done so much positive already. You will do more and have a lot of good living ahead of you. We all wish you the best, and DO check back with us and let us know how you are doing. If you are in NYC, we can meet and go out if you want. I am sure we will all have alot to laugh about together. DOUBEL HUGS to you!!!!

      • Anonymous :

        F therapy. Get meds. From your regular doctor. Stop drowning first.

      • Anonymous :

        so many good suggestions above. We are on your side, OP. In addition to what’s already been said:

        Please check out crisistextline.org to see if that would meet some of your immediate needs.

        Much much longer term- please consider a private disability insurance policy for yourself. See bogleheads.com and white coat investor blog for some good info on why this can be helpful, esp for high earning professionals (which it sounds like you are). This may give you some breathing room farther down the line. Many policies do not cover depression/anxiety but I found one that does and that might be a good fit for you.

        Many hugs and please get help for yourself now. You are worth it and so much more.

      • Anonymous :

        You might try Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, which IME is extremely effective in teaching a person how to shut down harmful self-talk.

        You sound like a great daughter. You love your dad; I expect he loves you too. If he needed care, you would get it for him (you are!) Try to see yourself through his eyes: you need some help here. You deserve it. You don’t have to live this way.

      • Where are you located? I have worked with people in similar situations, and if you’re in Los Angeles I can help you, even if it’s just a shoulder to cry on.

    • Anonymous :

      OP, you are getting good advice above. I just wanted to add that I have been where you are. I know you probably won’t believe me if I tell you things can get better. I didn’t believe it when people said it to me. But I think you will believe that something needs to change. You recognized that yourself. I have found (again, coming from a very dark place) that just taking a small (I mean, tiny) step will open up options that hadn’t even occurred to you. Call your dad’s doctor and ask for help with his care (In my case I accidentally broke down crying and magically my dad got into a rehab unit the next day), call your EAP and talk to someone, call a friend that you think you have lost and you will find out that she still cares about you, to to a support group in your area for caregivers (google). When you are ready take a tiny step in a different direction. You are smart and you will absolutely figure out a way through this, but you have to give yourself permission to make different choices. Please do that for me and everyone here. We care about you. <3

    • I’m so sorry to hear this. My sisters and I are caring for our mom, who lives in a nursing home, and it is horribly stressful on top of work and, you know, a life.

      There are specialty law/paralegal firms that will do work for you on putting your dad’s assets into an irrevocable trust so that he can qualify for Medicaid. It won’t pay for assisted living but it will pay for some amount of in-home care or a nursing home if he is released by the hospital into the facility or directed there by his doctor.

      You do not have to pay $10k a month. your assets and income are not your dad’s and don’t count toward his qualification for benefits. Do not destroy yourself doing this, literally or figuratively. You do not deserve a decent quality of life less than your dad does.

      For what it’s worth, the nursing home was an adjustment for my mom, but day to day, she’s happy. She plays bingo (which she used to disdain as for “old people” and has made friends.) She needs to be in a nursing home because she will not remember to take her meds otherwise, and that is reason enough. But she also needs help getting to the potty due to balance issues, and because of that, In home care or assisted living just won’t work.

      Really, investigate your options.

      If you really are mentally exhausted and can’t do your day to day, think about a short term disability leave for yourself.

      Much love to you. I know how hard it is and I am thinking of you. ((Hugs))

    • You probably won’t see this anymore but you need to get help. You may think that you need to pay 10k/month and completely exhaust yourself because you love your dad. That’s not true. As a parent, I can’t think of many things worse than my child thinking in the way you are thinking. As a parent, my child’s happiness is far, far more important to me than my own happiness and no parent, ever, wants to be a burden to their children.

  9. Have any of you guys been to Tulum, Mexico? It looks amazing/is relatively cheap to get to from the east coast. What are some tips/ideas of things to do down there? I’m thinking of going there with my best friend for memorial day weekend (5-6 days).

    • Anonymous :

      The water is so blue and the beaches are absolutely gorgeous. The ruins are cool and are the main reason many people go to Tulum. Snorkeling is decent, but may not be super impressive if you’ve snorkeled extensively in Hawaii or elsewhere. Still a fun way to pass the time though. Definitely visit one or more cenotes. Otherwise, just enjoy the beaches and the food. Bring a couple of good books. 5-6 days sounds like the perfect amount of time.

    • Never too many shoes... :

      I have been to the Mayan ruins at Tulum. They are completely gorgeous and there is a fabulous beach right down below. There are lots of day trips for catamarans, snorkeling, and visiting cenotes all around the part of Mexico – you will not be short of things to do.

    • I actually planned a lot of activities on our trip to Tulum based off some random person’s wedding website I came across online!! Sian Ka’an was cool – you can book a private tour of the preserve and see a bunch of different ecosystems (marsh, ocean, bay, etc) all in one day, plus float down a natural lazy river. Xel Ha Park was a lot of fun. About $90 per person for the day includes food, soft drinks and booze. Again, more lazy river, biking, wildlife, zip lines, some kind of weird helmet snorkeling thing, and just laying around in a tube in the water. It’s sort of a little bay off the ocean. Cenotes were neat, we just drove to a close by one and went in, but you can go with a tour too. The ruins were meh, but sort of mandatory.

      I actually thought the shopping/restaurant area of Tulum was gross. There were a lot of open, smelly dumpsters and sites where people (who I assume are permanent “vacationers” rather than local homeless) are living in tent cities right off the main road. It did not feel safe at night. Some of the restaurant bathroom situations were less than what I’m accustomed to on vacation – no flushing toilets, no running water (wash your hands with soap and a pitcher of water) – and those were supposedly good, nice restaurants. We stayed somewhat off the beaten path so we could get away from all that but to go out at night and deal with all that…I probably wouldn’t do it again unless I stayed at a big resort and could dine there at night. The local restaurant scene was meh at best. Everyone raves about Hartwood but they had weird open days and we could not get in.

      • Anonymous :

        Given that you refer to Mayan ruins as “meh,” I can’t take the rest of your review seriously. No one recommends the city center of tulum- that is not why people go (although I do recommend an awesome mojito bar with live music, Batey). The hotel strip (beach on one side, jungle on the other) is amazing and so different from Cancun or other nearby beaches. I don’t know what places you are talking about with no flushing toilets- when you say you were off the beaten path, it sounds like you didn’t know what you were doing at all.

        • I may have been underwhelmed because I’ve been to other ruins (near Cozumel) that I enjoyed more. I found the Tulum ruins to be much more commercialized (there’s a giant souvenir shop, a few touristy restaurants, and a Starbucks at the entry), inconvenient (a very long walk to the actual ruins from the entry point), and extremely crowded (lots of tour buses), especially the little beach.

          I did significant research about the restaurants because food is my THING! (especially Mexican food). My comment was in reference to restaurants and hotels on the strip/jungle road, not downtown. I’d prefer not to name the place without flushing toilets, but rest assured, I didn’t just wander in off the street.

          You may disagree, but Tulum is rustic with a capital R, it’s not for everyone, and it wasn’t for me. That’s what I was trying to relay. The first sentence of the NYT 36 Hours in Tulum refers to the fact that you can’t flush toilet paper there. That said, the scenery is lovely, but I’d recommend exploring it from a resort rather than staying on Tulum’s hotel strip. And, with limited time I’d put the ruins at the bottom of the list of things to do and see and recommend the other outdoor things I and others suggested.

          • fwiw, I liked Tulum but I agree with you that the Tulum ruins are pretty meh if you’ve been to Chichen Itza. There’s really no comparison in terms of grandeur, and the Tulum ruins take an hour to see max, whereas you can easily spend the better part of a day at Chichen Itza.

          • And I saw the Starbucks at the ruins too and pictures can easily found online. You’re def not making that up.

    • Anonymous :

      Tulum is exquisite. Make sure you visit a few cenotes (dos ojos is a good one)- you can rent a car and drive around to the cenotes yourself, or you can do a guided tour. The beaches and food are top-notch. Since you’re there for 5-6 days, you could venture farther and check out Playa del Carmen or Cozumel, but really no need if you just want to relax. Snorkeling is good and there is a ton of scuba diving (check out Cozumel for that) if that’s your thing.

    • Did a family trip there a few years ago! Pretty much agree with everything that’s been said thus far. Would also add that we did a swimming with whale sharks excursion out of Cancun and it was honestly one of the coolest things I’ve ever done!

      • Anonymous :

        Memorial Day is the very edge of whale shark season. I think it really begins in June. Some operators may run trips in late May, but I’m not sure I’d recommend it then because there’s probably a low likelihood of good sightings. It’s $$$$ and a long day, even from Cancun (longer from Tulum). If you’re staying in Tulum and visiting in May, I’d focus on the traditional Tulum sights.

    • lost academic :

      It’s amazing. Great food with a good range of cuisine, very quiet, wide range of accommodations – which are easy to discover with little effort, not sure why people are talking about how OMG RUSTIC it is – you can get rustic (eco-boutique) if you want it, you can get resort and western style hotels if you want them. I have made multiple trips and done a lot of prior research as I planned and hosted a large event there years ago. Lots of access to the ruins, which are fantastic, cenotes, parks, etc. Recommend staying on the beach, of course. Pricey at the winter holiday season. The ruins are really not commercialized last I checked. I think the above commenter is misremembering a location. I recommend booking a hotel you like, flying to Cancun and renting your own car.

      • I’m not misremembering. I was there one year ago. I went to the Starbucks.

        I wasn’t aware my opinion on a vacation spot would be so upsetting to people! Boy oh boy!

  10. Flattering, knee-length summer styles :

    As follow-up to this morning’s conversation about shorts, could you stylish women who know where to find comfortable, cool, knee-length summer shorts/skirts/dresses point me to your favourite sources? TIA!

    • Anonymous :


      They have good bermuda shorts and ankle-length pants in breathable fabrics. I don’t like a lot of their stuff (seems to be for someone taller / younger / more of a skin-shower / more toned), but the things I like there I love, wear all the time, and buy multiples of.

      I’m 46.

    • Boden! Most of their shorts are available in 3 different lengths. Tons of cute summer dresses – pricey but often get marked down. Plus free shipping both ways and excellent quality.

      • Sydney Bristow :

        Totally second this!

        Return shipping isn’t always free though. Make sure to place your order when they specify free return shipping (typically with orders over $49).

        Boden has my absolute favorite shorts. Great material and a variety of lengths and colors.

        Their casual dresses are great if they fit you. I’ve also gotten some great casual dresses from Target. I think they were Merona.

    • Anonymous :

      I think bermuda shorts look so dorky and not work appropriate. Wear a skirt instead.

      • Sorry, for those who did not read the morning’s thread, this is about casual wear. I would never wear any kind of short to work…

    • cat socks :

      I like the fit & flare dresses from Land’s End. They work well for my body type – short, hourglass and carry most of my weight in my belly. I also like the Max Studio dresses from Nordstrom Rack.

    • Last year I bought Talbots 13″ twill shorts, looks like available now. I got these after not wearing shorts for years. They were catalog only but the fit was pretty “average” and true to size. They were a little more polished cotton than twill in reality, which made them nicer- you could pair with a cute top and go out to dinner.

      • Anonymous :

        I like skirts and casual dresses from yoga-ish brands such as Soybu and Lole, and Athleta, of course. Never for work!

    • Rainbow Hair :

      I wear Old Navy circle skirts for casual wear in the summer. Not a fashion showstopper, but so comfy I don’t care.

    • I think ll bean actually has the best summer skirts. They’re actually too short for me because I am 5’10” with the legs of a six-footer, but if 21-22 inches in length works for you, check out their chino or khaki skirts (whatever they call them.) If they were long enough for me I’d buy them in every color (all neutrals I think) and wear them all spring and summer weekends.

      • https://m.llbean.com/product.html?bc=27-615-503101&skCatId=87478&csp=a#87478

        I mean, look how cute this one is.

      • https://m.llbean.com/product.html?bc=27-615-503101&skCatId=77635&csp=a#77635


      • I’m trying to post a couple of links but they’re either going somewhere else or no where at all. But check out L L Bean easy stretch twill skirt, oceanport skirt, or south port cargo skirt. I wish these were long enough for me!

  11. Marshmallow :

    Since a few topics have come up lately re class, who has read Hillbilly Elegy?

    I really loved it, but it wound up driving home for me that I am a “class immigrant” like the author. Colleagues kept saying how revolutionary it was to their understanding of class in America, and I read it like, “Yup, I did that. Yes, that was us. Check, check, check.” So it’s a little weird that everyone around me thinks it opened their eyes to something hidden, whereas for me a lot of it wouldn’t occur to me as odd.

    My experience was far less extreme than in the book, and my family wound up being (a little bit) upwardly mobile. But pretty much everything about his fish-out-of-water experience from law school and beyond was right on for me. In particular, I had no idea about networking. Networking always seemed like cheating to me, and why would I bother a professor at her office hours? *Retroactive facepalm*

    • Marshmallow, nothing against you – you deserve applause for navigating a culture change and succeeding. Good for you!

      But I didn’t like the book. I have been poor, I know poor people … so I didn’t benefit from any “eye-opening” or find it in any way revolutionary. Yes, being poor sucks. It sucks when your parents are crap and on drugs, and to have bad schools, and to have no role models. But it seemed to me that the book was trying to say, “hey, white people have it hard too it isn’t just minorities in the city” … so that’s revolutionary? And suddenly now we care about poverty?

      He also uses single anecdotes to make sweeping generalizations – “I saw someone abusing food stamps once so the entire system is a scam.” “Poor whites are mostly just lazy.” Etc.

      • Anonymous :

        I didn’t care for it either. I didn’t grow up poor, but nothing he writes about was revolutionary or new to me because I have always worked hard to be empathetic, learn about people’s backgrounds, and truly listen. I mean it was fine, but I didn’t think it was this OMG revolutionary book that some people think it is. I also would have preferred to read a book of that nature written by someone who didn’t get out and make a name for themselves. I want to know more about what it’s like to NOT make it. To not have the chance to have opportunities. To not have the money or means to leave. Yes, some people are able to leave that live, but so many are not. I didn’t find him to be particularly sympathetic, honestly.

        • Marshmallow :

          Oooh yes. I don’t know how a person who by definition did not “make it out” would write that book, but it would be worth reading.

          • Anonymous :

            I imagine it would be written by someone interviewing the people who didn’t “make it out”, rather than autobiographical.

          • Nudibranch :

            People who “didn’t make it out” would never get a book deal.

      • Marshmallow :

        +1 to your last point, absolutely. That aspect wasn’t very fleshed out or supported. I took it more as, “Objectively this isn’t true for everyone, but I see how the behavior of a few neighbors can incorrectly color your view of the entire welfare state.”

    • Same here. Not quite as extreme, and not law school, but I was definitely the first person in my family to have a white collar job or go to college. The book felt like a version of my life and hometown, and I wish I could have everyone in my “white collar” life read it to understand where I’m coming from.

      And oh yes about the networking. I had no clue. I still don’t have a clue about a lot of things, and I’m in my mid 30s and have been doing this for over a decade now.

    • KateMiddletown :

      I’ll play. I liked the book because some people I know also use sweeping generalizations to describe welfare fraud and the work ethic of those living in poverty. It was an interesting anecdote of a book, and I found it very interesting that he is working for Peter Thiel now. (Although, as my name suggests, I’m interested to hear what happens when the author does, in fact, return home.)

      • He’s about to do so. He had an oped a few days ago in the WSJ where he announced he’s moving back to Ohio to start a charity to combat drug abuse there.

    • I loved the book and completely related to it. My people were from the south and I grew up in the agricultural Central Valley of CA, but really, same difference.

      I did not love how JD Vance used his experience to justify his conservative positions because, after all, he benefited from government programs, like going into the military. I’m not saying he didn’t do hard work, and I don’t question that some poor people are lazy complainers (I see this in my own kin) but it doesn’t mean they all are.

      Overall, I fell overwhelmingly in love with MawMaw and can take or leave the rest.

      By he way, many of us assimilate. Most people I meet professionally are very surprised to learn where I’m from and how I came up. (and I don’t tell them the half of it.)

    • Sydney Bristow :

      I’m still not sure how I feel about the book.

      A lot of his experiences were really familiar to me, although the side of my family that fit into some of his characterizations immigrated to the US from a European country 2 generations ago and went straight to the west coast. I can’t remember all the examples, but things like words he talked about using (crawdads instead of crayfish, for example), not knowing how to pronounce things correctly, broken homes and unemployment were totally part of my childhood. I think I’ve said it before, but my parents divorced when I was a kid and when I lived with my mom I was poor but when I lived with my dad I wasn’t. All my clothes were hand-me-downs, I remember our water being shut off several times and we had to go shower at my grandparents house, etc. Luckily I never experienced the violence that he wrote about. It is probably because I had a non-poor existence some of the time, but I don’t remember feeling really out of place when not surrounded by my family and neighborhood.

      I found the section about being in the military interesting because that wasn’t anything I have experience with.

      Overall, I think the whole “bubble” thing has been built up to be something more than it is. Sure people surround themselves with other people who think like them, but in my experience they aren’t entirely insulated from everything else and do experience other viewpoints and can have some level of empathy and understanding for experiences they haven’t had but have heard about.

  12. The U.S. should send Merkel an apology letter & fruit basket. Oy. :: hangs head in embarrassment ::

    • Anonymous :

      I mean we formally had to apologize to the UK, so an apology to Merkel might not be far off…

    • Anonymous :

      oh god, what now…

      • Anonymous :

        At a press conference he said that he and Merkel have wiretapping in common. As in, they have both been wiretapped. You know, the thing that he completely made up that the White House already had to apologize to the British about. Sigh.

        • Anonymous :

          I thought it was a reference to the handshake. I saw a video where Merkel said “Should we shake hands?” and Trump just kind of smirked and didn’t say anything.

          • he refused to shake her hand? He’s such an a @@ hole. When is this new reality going to be over?

        • Anonymous :

          Plus he answers every question first, plus doesn’t wear headphones because he doesn’t care what she is saying, plus plus plus.

        • So, it’s well documented that the US was eavesdropping on Merkel’s cell phone in the early 2010s. I’m not familiar with the full context of Trump’s comment but it sounds like he was comparing this real wiretapping with the alleged wiretapping of his campaign.


          • You know, I’m not going to disagree that we were spying on Merkel. There are some arguments that it was accidental, but I think the spy agencies know what they’re doing. Did Obama know about it? I doubt it.

            But we weren’t spying on Trump. That has been acknowledged as a lie in a suprisingly bipartisan manner, so the issue is 45 comparing his experience to Merkel’s.

            I believe we apologized to Merkel as well.

  13. Black Jeans :

    Following up from this morning’s thread.

    I have black jeans (Caslon, not distressed, skinny ankle) and can’t figure out how to wear them. I keep wondering if I’d like a distressed pair better. For those of you who were posting about how much you like your black jeans, can you describe how you like to wear them?


    • cat socks :

      I work in a casual office so I wear them a lot in the winter with knee high boots. I usually wear a patterned knit top or graphic tee and drapey cardigan as a topper.

      In the summer I wear short sleeve or sleeveless blouses and flats. I prefer more drapey, loose fitting tops with skinny ankle jeans.

    • Marshmallow :

      My black jeans sound like yours. I wear them with basically anything, which I know is unhelpful, but I think it’s kind of hard to style skinny black jeans wrong.

      — Oversized sweater and black leather ankle boots
      — Fitted tee shirt, jeans cuffed, Vans
      — Chambray or flannel button-down, untucked, knee-high or ankle boots
      — Button-down, tucked in, brown belt, brown knee-high boots
      — All black everything: distressed black tee, black belt, black ankle boots
      — Dressed up for a night out with a black cutout or mesh top, black knee-high boots or heels. Dressing them up tends to work better if you go for edgy rather than pretty.

      Are you having trouble with the skinny shape or just that they are black? I get a lot of wear out of mine by just treating them like a blank slate and wearing whatever else I’d want.

      • Wardrobe/Style Challenges - recommendations? :

        I think I’m having trouble with the fact that they are not distressed. When I was in high school/college, late nineties, black pants/jeans were what we wore out every. single. weekend. (Although they were flared.) So when I put these on I feel like they look very dated. But I would not consider myself someone who knows what is trendy/dated. I think they’re just out of my comfort zone. (Which I realize is hysterical, since they are essentially skinny jeans, which I love, and which other posters have pointed out that’s how they wear them.) The ideas you and others have shared are helpful and will motivate me to try them on once more . . .

        • So I find I don’t feel cute in them unless they fit perfectly. I had to go through a few brands and styles. I basically wear mine as leggings with long flannels/blouses/sweaters so I want them to be completely tight to my calf, and hit right at the ankle bone.

          It might be worth trying on a few pairs somewhere just to see if this could be the issue, if things just feel “off”

        • Anonymous :

          Skinny black jeans are not dated.

      • givemyregards :

        +1 to all of the above suggestions. I wear my black skinny jeans with literally everything and actually find them more versatile than normal jeans since they look better with blue tops. Does your favorite pair of skinny jeans come in black? If you already have a pair where you like the fit, etc. that might be a good place to start. Just try them on with a bunch of tops in your closet and see what sticks! Like the poster above, I wear mine with v-neck t-shirts, chambray button downs, loose sweater, etc.

    • Anonymous :

      On my body. Usually on my legs.

      But seriously – the same as I wear other skinny pants? More volume on top, with the hem hitting at the hip or bum. With either ankle boots or sneakers with no-show socks.

    • Roll up a cuff and wear them with ankle strap shoes. You will feel hip.

      My 16 year old is my stylist.

  14. Language Police :

    I’m sure I’m not the only one who has noticed, but it appears to me that almost every single word we use these days is political/offensive/hurtful/discriminatory/etc. Like the comments earlier about b u t t h u r t – certain people are INVENTING ways to be offended.

    I don’t understand this, and it is actively making me angry and exhausted. I am a minority, a female, very socially liberal but fiscally conservative. My family suffered hate crimes when I was a child. I understand real hate. But how did we get here? Is it just that the pendulum has (rightfully) swung away from overt racism and discrimination and now we are too far on the other side? Trumpism aside, it seems that there is so much fear and loathing in the air that we are scared to point out negative behaviors or lack of basic intelligence when it is smacking us in the face.

    This may out me, but I don’t mind, because I trust this community to engage in this subject with nuance, unlike those on social media. I am in a money management Facebook group, and I posted something about a middle aged man, obsessed with status symbols, who called into a radio show asking what to do about his lack of retirement savings and 200K in student loans. I called the man “stupid.” I was ATTACKED. Mostly by women – the general theme was that I had no right to call anyone in the world “stupid.” It was literally amazing and like nothing I’ve ever seen. Are we not allowed to call out stupidity when we see it anymore? Would I call someone stupid to his face? Probably not, but I would never rule it out.

    I’m not sure what I’m asking here, except to say that I am very worried for our society.

    • Anonymous :

      some words are offensive because of their origin, and just because YOU don’t know the origin doesn’t mean you can use the word with impunity. A good example is gypped. Many people don’t know it’s offensive, but if someone is offended by it, it’s not because they are too politically correct or overly sensitive.

      • I totally know that and agree with you. My point (perhaps not made very well) is a little different. I’m talking more about words that ARE historically innocuous, but in today’s society, they have become offensive. “Stupid,” for one.

        • Anonymous :

          I mean, calling someone stupid isn’t nice. I don’t know the full context of what you said or the man’s story, so I can’t comment on that. I would err on the side of calling someone’s actions stupid, rather than the person himself/herself. Is it possible that you seemed out-of-touch or not aware of your privilege when you called him stupid? you are a money manager and this guy could be poorly educated, or any number of things.

        • Anonymous :

          Were they equating use of stupid with use of moron/retarded/idiot/crazy/etc?

          Or were you getting piled on because calling people stupid is rude, and has always been rude, even before the PC police came into play?

        • Look, before there was “political correctness,” which people like Donald Trump seem to have seized on as a way to get to do whatever they want, truth or reality or other people be d**ned, there was politeness. Calling someone “stupid” is rude. Describing someone’s feelings as “b u t t hurt” is rude. In general, if you wouldn’t call someone “stupid” to their face, you shouldn’t do it on the Internet (or at least in the particular way that you did, which seemed to call someone out directly).

          • Anonymous :

            Maybe the problem is we’ve conflated rudeness with bigotry. They are two very different concepts. Yes, maybe I was rude for describing an anonymous person as stupid (to be clear, this was not someone identifiable or named – it was a radio caller, and I was describing the radio call). Yet, the way I was attacked, you would have thought I had called the guy a racial or gender based slur. The vitriol was intense and surprising. I stand by what I said (if I was rude, so be it). It’s the pearl-clutching that is bothering me.

          • Anonymous :

            did anyone actually accuse you of saying something racist or bigoted? or were they attacking you because you were rude/unkind? why are you conflating what happened to you with political correctness?

          • Anonymous :

            I agree stupid and b*tthurt are both rude terms. But I don’t think we should equate rude and bigoted. People definitely argued on the morning thread that b*tthurt was homophobic.

        • If you’re a jerk (which you probably are if you’re calling people stupid), then you’re going to get called out on it.

          • Yes, someone actually called me bigoted for using the word “stupid.”


            Jerk and I own it.

      • Anonymous :

        Gypped is not a good analogy. The origin of that term is absolutely, 100% derived from the word “gypsy” and is a derogatory way of referring to an ethnic group and their alleged propensity to swindle people. Just because someone doesn’t know what the word means doesn’t make it ok to use it.

        I have not seen any objective evidence that b*tthurt has any homophobic meaning whatsoever in it’s origin. Similar terms that refer to pain in that region of the body exist and have for centuries, like PITA and the British version with the word “arse.” Social justice warriors have decided it’s not a PC word because, I guess, it sounds like it could maybe be homophobic if you think about what it literally means? That’s not at all the same as a word that is actually a slur.

        • Anonymous :

          you’re missing the point. just because you (or frankly, I) don’t know the origin of the word doesn’t mean the origin is not offensive. maybe do some research before reaching a conclusion about whether it’s a bigoted term.

          • Anonymous at 3:28 is clearly the type of person I’m talking about. You are admitting that you don’t know the origin of something, yet you are concluding that it could (COULD!!!) be offensive. We are going to run out of descriptors if we keep this up. FWIW, I would never use “gypped” (because I know what it refers to) or b*tthurt because I have the privilege of using better language than that. But I will continue to use the word “stupid.”

          • Anonymous :

            No, that is my point. I did research on b*tthurt and haven’t been able to find anything that suggests it’s a bigoted term. The research suggests the opposite actually. Thus, jumping all over people who use the term IS inventing a way to be offended, as OP suggested. You said it’s not ok to use a bigoted word (e.g., gypped) just because you don’t know the origin and I agree. But it’s also not ok to police everything someone says and say “that word is bigoted!” when it’s not.

    • Anonymous :

      I agree. Also female, also socially liberal, also a (religious) minority and very scared by Trump and his supporters and I know “I don’t like being PC” is often code for “I want to state my sexist/racist/homophobic viewpoints without repercussion.” But I do think some people are absolutely out of control with the PC word policing. After the election SNL had a joke like “Tinder now has 39 choices for ‘gender’ and that is why Trump won the election.” Obviously a joke and no one factor is dispositive but I agree with the underlying point.

      • Anonymous :

        why is it threatening that there are 39 choices for gender on Tinder? no one is getting mad if you don’t know the exact (and often new and changing) terminology that someone may want to call themselves. but obviously a transgender man will be offended if you refer to him with a female pronoun. it’s not rocket science, it’s respect.

        • Wow. Do you actually think it makes any sense in the universe (where we do have to maintain some semblance of order in order to not go insane) to have 39 different choices for gender? (Also, it was a joke using hyperbole to emphasize an issue).

          • Anonymous :

            how does it impact you AT ALL? if you are on Tinder, you can choose one of the traditional choices (man/woman/whatever). If you’re browsing on Tinder, you can simply filter out the genders that you don’t recognize or understand, if you don’t want to deal with that.

            we’re talking about Tinder, not some government form.

          • Do you know what hyperbole means?

          • Anonymous :

            It was a joke, and no, whatever Tinder does doesn’t personally affect me. But it’s this out-of-control PC-ness that is making some people want to swing back the other way to a time when PC wasn’t a thing. I’m not saying I agree with that viewpoint, but I understand why people think political correctness is out of control when they hear that Tinder has 39 choices for gender.

          • Anonymous :

            It doesn’t matter whether it was a joke or hyperbole or both- the point of the joke was that people are special snowflakes and demand to be called whatever they want with no regard to common sense. Correct? And my point is, how on earth does it impact YOU, or anyone else, whether someone has a gender identity that doesn’t make any sense to you? Don’t we have bigger things to be worrying about, like a president who has no problem discriminating against people on the basis of their gender identity or national origin?

      • nasty woman :

        I don’t get this. I’m pretty darn liberal and engage in those dialogues frequently, and I feel like I rarely if ever hear “out of control” word policing. Once in a while I’ll come across a debate as to terminology but usually the PC word policing I see in the wild is actually satire.

    • Yeah, people are choosing to get offended for so little these days. The one I hate the most is when transactivists yell at women online for using the words “female” or “woman” to describe themselves because they’re allegedly being “exclusive” and “harmful.” They’re not talking about you! It’s just so narcissistic to demand that women change their own speech describing their own bodies to suit your specific, ever-changing, can-never-keep-up-with-the-language-police demands. Call yourself whatever you want, but don’t tell me what to do with my life.

      • +1. We have a close family friend who is M to F transgender. She transitioned about 15 years ago. I love her to death and I respect the hell out of her. But she does not have a uterus, and she will never know what it is like to have one.

      • Anonymous :

        but this is such a niche thing, that it’s ridiculous to say that our entire culture is overly PC.

        • It’s actually a lot less niche than it used to be. Planned Parenthood refers to women as “menstruators” (“breeders” is probably next), you couldn’t click on a news site without seeing people complaining that the pink p*ssy hats at the Women’s March were “transphobic”, colleges are no-platforming academic feminists who don’t toe the party line hard enough, and even Chimamanda Ngozie Adichie, who has been pretty universally acclaimed for her feminist stance, has spent the last week getting positively chewed out for saying that transwomen experienced male privilege growing up. I used to brush it off too because it didn’t seem like a big deal, but I’m worried about what this means for feminist organizing and women’s education about their own bodies and rights. I really don’t like a lot of the elements I’m seeing, such as shaming lesbians for not wanting to have s*x with male-bodied transwomen.

          • I 100% agree. I consider myself a trans ally but I was aghast at the backlash at Chimamanda Ngozie Adichie, who I feel was just stating a fact. I totally support trans rights and trans acceptance. I do not support the idea that trans people get to remake the world to suit themselves and everyone else is just along for the ride. Similar to extreme feminism (and I consider myself a feminist), it makes too many people who actually support the basic stances into enemies. My mom, who was a second-wave feminist in the 70s, bailed out of the movement when she started hearing from people that the only way to be a “true” feminist was to renounce all relationships with men, going so far as to give custody of male children to their fathers. She had a husband and a young son and was not on board with that, to say the least.

            I am really tired of being made to feel like I am a bad person and a non-ally because I don’t support every.single.thing a group has to say, and will not just sit silently co-signing every ridiculous thing that comes out of someone’s mouth. It is possible to be a feminist and still believe men are okay people, and reject the idea of female isolationism. It’s possible to be a trans ally and believe that lesbians have the right not to sleep with male-bodied transwomen if they don’t want to. It’s possible to be an ally of African-Americans and support their continued push for equality and justice, but also believe that slavery reparations are a terribly problematic idea that will cause more hatred and violence. When the extremists in any community take over the dialogue, and start shaming allies for not offering unconditional unilateral support, what happens is that the people who do care, and want to help, get alienated and throw up their hands, saying “well, do what you want then.” As a woman and a feminist, I know in my bones we will not achieve equality without bringing men into the dialogue. There is no meaningful change without the involvement of multiple stakeholder groups. Otherwise we might as well just segregate ourselves away from the rest of the world, which won’t work for very long. I wish we could focus on what’s positive and what kinds of positive change can happen, instead of nit-picking about every single thing everyone says all the time.

          • Anonymous at 12:20, I completely agree. It seems really dumb to me for some of the transactivists to call women “discriminatory” or even “exterminationist” (<– seriously) for stating basic facts, such as "Women get to choose who they want to sleep with" or "People who transitioned from male to female did not experience the problems associated with growing up female" or "Women may be uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a 6'4" bearded male in a suit who identifies as a woman." I honestly don't understand why people want to make enemies of facts and the people who speak them when there are so many other issues we could all come together on – economic opportunity, health care, freedom from male violence, etc. Wouldn't it be better to have all moderate feminists ally together? Right now, some of the "debate" makes so little sense and is so offensive that it's completely alienating tons of women who want to support and be a part of the trans rights movement.

      • Anonymous :

        Same with “pregnant mothers/women”. Yes, women have babies! If you’re a trans-man, you’ve opted out of womanhood (whether it was by choice or not) and, no, I don’t really feel the need to explicitly include all 3 of you in the “pregnancy group”.

        Don’t get me started on the awful word “menstruator”.

        • Wow! I’m not a menstruator due to early menopause for medical reasons. Am I not a woman, or am I some different sort of woman? I need to let my husband know, because he identifies as cis gender hetero and I’m sure he would like some notice that he was sleeping with something/one other than a woman

          • I haven’t had a period in 10 years thanks to IUDs. Guess that because I’m not menstruating, I’m not a woman. Fabulous.

          • What are you doing here then? This a ladies site. Men must find some other place for their fun.

    • Anonymous :

      Here’s what I think when someone word-polices me: (1) they are not intelligent or focused enough to come up with a substantive response, (2) they have some sort of inferiority complex, and/or (3) they spent too much time in college taking “[Minority] Studies” courses. Insensitive stuff gets said. It’s life, where trigger warnings aren’t actually a thing. Grow up.

      • +1. It’s not my problem if other people get offended by what I say and do. There is no right not to be offended. I go through life being polite to everyone I meet, and if I meet someone rude, aggressive, or sketchy, I don’t see them again. I don’t demand they change everything about their behavior that offends me. It’s one thing to have discussions with close friends and family about offensive words, but in the age of the Internet, perfect strangers think they have the right to attack others for holding different views.

        • Rainbow Hair :

          On the other hand, if I am offending someone unknowingly, I want them to tell me! I want the opportunity to improve, to reconsider, to make my friends/neighbors/coworkers/acquaintances more comfortable, especially if it’s easy for me.

          Here’s a somewhat fictionalized example that I think might be enlightening: a group of friends met a new gal, say her name was Elinor. And someone called her “Ellie.” She said, “eeesh, can you not call me that? There was a kid named that in my hometown and (1) she was mean and (2) she died tragically so it’s just… really not a nickname I like.”

          Did the person who called her Ellie do anything *wrong*? No! But was Elinor being hypersensitive/does she need to “grow up”? No! I would argue she’s being pretty mature in communicating her reaction so that people don’t unknowingly make her uncomfortable. Is there any reason to insist on continuing to do something once she’s told you it bothers her? No!

          • +100! Thank you for adding this perspective. If my words made someone uncomfortable, I’d like to know so I can try to make them more comfortable, just because it’s nice. If you prioritize your right to use a word after you know it offends someone, that’s cool, but… recognize your choice.

          • Anonymous :

            Right. This. If I’m being a jerk, I’ll own that. If I use a term that I don’t know has a troublesome history, or hurts someone, I’d like to know so I can avoid unintentionally hurting someone. It’s called “not being an a**hole” and it’s what adults should do.

            FWIW, calling someone stupid is the laziest possible way to respond to whatever they’re doing or arguing. If someone has an incoherent position, or a worldview that reflects some profound ignorance, surely you can respond to that more constructively than by calling them stupid.

            If you choose to use language that you have reason to believe is offensive or hurtful, then you don’t really have anyone to blame but yourself when people respond in kind.

        • You need a guy, badly!🙄

      • Anonymous :

        insensitive is not the same thing as racist/sexist/xenophobic. are you saying we should give people a pass for saying one of the latter things?

        • Marshmallow :

          Yeah, “grow up” is an appropriate response to something that’s just insensitive. Not to actual bigotry.

      • And when people dismiss “Minorities Studies” classes like that, I tend to think they’re bigots too lazy to expand their own intellectual horizons. To each their own.

    • anonymous :

      OP, demographically I fit your description. Here’s my take on it- It’s just not nice to call people stupid. Or a long list of other things. I try to show respect for others the best I can, and if that means avoiding certain words, then whatever. I don’t think what’s going on with you calling this person “stupid” is about being offensive or PC. It’s kind of a jerk move to call people names (especially on social media- it just comes across as really juvenile). If people have their feelings hurt, of course they’re going to lash out at you. This doesn’t mean that what he did wasn’t stupid. Have you seriously never done something that was stupid or otherwise inadvisable? Just have some empathy/ compassion for others. If you really wanted to point out that this dude’s problems are his own doing, there are many more gentle ways to put that.

      I’m really not trying to word police you here, but I bet this guy felt attacked that you called him stupid. It’s not surprising that you got attacked back. It’s not rocket science. Just be nicer to people.

      • Please, reading comprehension, I beg of you. I did not identify anyone! The person who I called stupid was NOT on the FB group. He was a radio caller. He could not have felt attacked! He doesn’t know I said anything! I was describing a radio call I had heard. OTHER people felt attacked on his behalf and went off the rails from there.

        I admit I was rude. But if you had seen the backlash, you would have thought I had called him the n word.

        • And now I’m going to apologize to anon 3:57 for the reading comprehension comment. I thought that was pretty clear. If it wasn’t, I hope it is now.

          • anonymous :

            Yeah sorry. I guess I was reading quickly or whatever. Something you may want to think about though- I bet a lot of people are in that guy’s boat. They made bad financial choices and now feel stuck or whatever. I bet some of those people felt like you called them stupid too because they’re in a similar situation. Not that you could have known that, but it kind of doesn’t mater.

            Look, I think you’re on point in thinking that it’s valid to point out people’s poor decisions that landed them where they are. I think people need to do that rather than excusing poor behavior. But still. You were still rude. Maybe their reactions were excessive, I wasn’t there. But I bet some of them felt insulted too, which kind of makes sense, especially given how many people make awful financial decisions.

        • What you’re (hopefully) learning is that there are consequences to your choices. You chose to be rude in your FB post (and you continue to do so here, although less egregiously), and you are experiencing what sounds like a pretty typical backlash for people who exhibit rude behavior. The next step is up to you – find a different audience (there are plenty of people out there who enjoy vulgar language and constant insults), or modify your speech to fall more squarely within mainstream standards for polite adult interactions. Freedom!

    • I blame the internet – or rather, the shift from casual communication being mostly spoken to mostly written. It gives us an outlet to nitpick things that we would have just glossed over in the past. (The anonymity doesn’t help, either, of course.) And there are a lot of people who just want to be obnoxious just because they can – that certainly shows up here enough.

    • Marshmallow :

      I have nuanced feelings about this, but I agree there is a happy medium and society seems to be seesawing back and forth instead of settling on norms that make sense.

      My general operating principle is that I’d rather err on the side of not offending someone, but I’m not going into overdrive policing others.

      However– I’ve found that some people tend to police others regarding their own (privileged) ethnicity or gender, but don’t want to be likewise policed. For example, I recently had a conversation with a family member who (a) thought white people should be allowed to say the n word because black people can say it, but (b) gave his coworkers a lecture about how the phrase “off the boat” is deeply offensive to him because he is a (white, European) immigrant. The irony was totally lost on him. See also, Italians who hate mafia jokes but will warn you that Mexicans are likely to steal your stuff; Irish folks who hate leprechaun jokes but have no problem putting down women.

    • OK, so caveat first: I don’t know what the FB comments you got were like, so I can’t judge the severity of the response. But.

      You said a mean thing on the internets, and internet people said mean things back.

      So maybe I’m the one who’s mean, or insensitive, or stupid… but why is this surprising? In general, I don’t really expect positive feedback from most of the internet. I figure, you put stuff out there, you’re rolling the dice on whether you pull in likes, or cute emoji, or random trolls, or really offensive racist stuff, or that extra-special danish guy who likes to call people seal-f***ers (maybe that last one is just me, I know some weird people).

      But I also have to assume you know this. So why is this one getting to you so much?

  15. Wardrobe/Style Challenges - recommendations? :

    I look at the blog Putting Me Together based on a recommendation from here – she recently did a style/wardrobe challenge and is about to do another. (Basically she gives you a list of items and provides you with outfit recipes for 30 days or something like that.)

    I remember seeing some posts when the first one was going on where the commenters were disappointed – and I felt the same way. It was way to casual for my work environment (and kind of bland). But I did get a few weekend outfits out of it.

    I’m on the fence about the spring challenge – while I think I’d still face the same problem of it being too casual, I do like the idea of someone taking the guesswork out for me. And I could try to use more formal pieces.

    What I’d really like is to find a style challenge that is more oriented for officewear. For example, I’d love if Belle/TheWorkEdit did one.

    Are there other style challenges out there that would be a good fit for this? I’ve never heard of them before the PMT one, and when I google it I’m not coming up with anything usable.

    • cat socks :

      I haven’t seen many other blogs to style challenges. There are very few fashion blogs that I find to be helpful for real life. I think Outfit Posts has done mix & match and capsule wardrobes. Not sure if that is the same thing. I really like the style of the blogger at Blue Collar Red Lipstick. I find a lot of work appropriate looks there.

    • Meg March :

      I would love this too. I feel the same about the PMT challenge– did the winter one, it was mostly too casual for my workplace, but I pretty much substituted every piece for a work-appropriate one (navy trousers instead of jeans, for example), and got some good combos out of it, but won’t be doing the spring challenge. I haven’t seen any work-focused ones.

  16. So my husband just got me a lovely diamond tennis bracelet for a milestone anniversary. He gave it to me with the caveat that he wasn’t sure what to get and that we could certainly return it if it’s not what I’d like. I honestly don’t know. It’s lovely and he’s a really sweet guy. I know there are political issues surrounding diamonds, but I haven’t paid much attention because I never personally purchase anything with diamonds. I’d hate to wear something that sends a political message that is contrary to our beliefs, despite having ignored the controversy about diamonds up to now. We’re pretty liberal and environmentally conscious (e.g., we drive a plug in hybrid and installed rain barrels). It’s also a lot of sparkle and he’d expect me to wear it regularly, even though my workplace is pretty casual. It was a lovely gesture though. What would you do?

    • I would never wear a diamond tennis bracelet to work. Although many people do it, it’s considered poor etiquette to wear diamonds during the day. I once heard a (rich) big law partner comment on the tackiness of another (rich) biglaw partner wearing a diamond tennis bracelet.

      As for the sourcing, it just depends on where they’re from. Many diamond retailers now sell conflict-free diamonds.

      • Anonymous :

        I thought that one did not wear colored stones during the day.

        I mean, people wear diamond engagement rings during the day without batting an eye.

        But what do I know — I wear a Qalo ring how (and love it!).

      • First Year Anon :

        Poor etiquette? Umm okay.

        It’s pretty easy to trace the origins of diamonds (over a certain size) nowadays. I’m sure you could find out from the jeweler. If you’re not going to want to wear it all of the time, then return it for something you will feel comfortable wearing.

      • I’m not sure it’s poor etiquette to wear diamonds during the day, but I’m 100% sure it’s poor manners to point out the small etiquette faux pas. This rich partner sounds like a drip.

      • Anonymous :

        What? I have never in my life heard that it is not okay to wear diamonds to work. That is standard wear for court.

    • Anonymous :

      Diamond tennis bracelets are not for the office!!! Diamonds are for evening. I’ll give you a pass on studs and solitaire but not a tennis bracelet.

    • Never too many shoes... :

      I totally disagree. I have a diamond tennis bracelet that has been worn on and off literally everywhere. The setting is supposed to be an everyday bracelet, it isn’t a more “fancy” pave bangle. If you like it, wear it everywhere, all the time, whenever you want. Like black skinny jeans, diamonds go with everything. This isn’t the 1950s with all the rules.

      • But a lot of people in 2017 still think diamonds are inappropriate for day wear (excepting engagement rings). You do you, but I thought (one) of the point of this blog was to have frank discussions about what is and isn’t work-appropriate attire. Of course, reasonable minds can disagree.

      • Anonymous :

        Traditional etiqu e t t e rules say diamonds are for evening not the day time. Look it up, it’s a thing. And a diamond tennis bracelet is really flashy. It’s very different than a diamond ring or diamond stud earrings and I wouldn’t wear one to work, especially to a casual office.

    • Rainbow Hair :

      I am not a person who knows when diamonds are appropriate AT ALL, but I don’t wear bracelets to work because they are really annoying when I type. The piece of milestone jewelry I would want would be a ring or a pendant I could wear as my default jewelry.

    • Baconpancakes :

      Do you like it? Wear it and enjoy the love that clearly went into the gift. Do you not really like it? Return it for something more practical, possibly a watch you could wear every day?

      It’s literally just a string of diamonds – the setting makes it “casual” as far as diamonds go. I agree that if it’s not your style to wear tennis bracelets to work, don’t, but if you would wear it, there’s no real reason not to any more. It’s very much my style to wear a tennis bracelet with everyday outfits, but I probably wouldn’t because I work with the public.

    • Ethics aside, I just feel like they’re really ubiquitous and out of style. Trade it in for something more artistic and hip that resonates with you and your personality.

      • Any suggestions? I don’t follow jewelry trends and have no idea.

        • another anon :

          I myself lust after a 8.5 mm Mikimoto pearl necklace, a diamond bangle, diamond hoops, or a few layered gold + diamond pave necklaces…

    • I haven’t seen anyone wearing a tennis bracelet in a long time, TBH. I thought they were out of style? That being said, if you love it, and you won’t feel weird about the diamonds issue every time you look at it, wear it, and who cares what anyone else thinks.

      But if you DON’T love it, I would admit that (since he gave you the out) and go back to the jewelry store to pick out something you like better. It’s always better to do than insist “no, no, I love it!” and then never wear it, because then your husband basically wasted the money. At least, that’s what my husband has told me in the past. :-)

    • He bought it with love. Wear it with pride.

      • Eh, I disagree. The bracelet cost a lot of money and he wants to make sure you have something you’ll wear. If you don’t think you’d wear it, I’d exchange it for something else.

        Separately, I agree with what others have said above about tennis bracelets no longer being particularly in style and a diamond bracelet maybe not being something you’d wear every day in a casual workplace. Maybe think about what type of jewelry you find yourself wearing most often (bracelet, ring, necklace, or earrings) and then look at some options for those. I also think an expensive watch makes a lovely present. My husband gave me my watch as a gift (after some direction for generally what I was looking for), and I wear it every day.

  17. Different anon. Socially and politically liberal.

    I don’t think it’s “threatening”as much as it is exhausting and damaging to other liberal causes. I think this election, many in the working class were trying to communicate: “You elites spend your time thinking about 39 different gender pronouns, but in the meantime, I can’t make a living wage and feed my family.”

    • This (and also a different anon). How we treat people matters. Respecting differences matters. Freedom of choice matters. But if people don’t have food, shelter, healthcare, etc – then sometimes that has to (temporarily, and not to the exclusion of everything else) matter more.

      But both sides are guilty – see eg why the f**k are we arguing about who gets to use which bathroom and what the impact will be on children when a sizeable minority of children don’t get three square meals a day?

      • Anonymous :

        how are “both sides guilty”? The only people arguing (and thus wasting our time) that someone shouldn’t be able to use a certain bathroom are “christian” evangelicals and their republican enablers.

        • No, it’s actually a much broader swathe of the population than that. I’m an atheist progressive who voted for Bernie in the primary (Hillary in the general) and I don’t support unfettered male access to private female spaces. I have 0 Christian friends and maybe two Republican friends, but I’m absolutely not alone in my opinion.

        • Anonymous :

          I think both sides are guilty on this. They aren’t going to let it go, either. Both far ends of each party’s base get fired up on this like nothing else. No one is going to blink first.

    • Maybe in the white working class. Pretty sure poor POC are also interested in equality issues.

    • nasty woman :

      ‘I think this election, many in the working class were trying to communicate: “You elites spend your time thinking about 39 different gender pronouns, but in the meantime, I can’t make a living wage and feed my family.””

      Right, and I think that this entire idea is a smokescreen pushed by conservatives before and after the election. I 1,000% do not buy that the poor, poor rural Real American Trump Voters are all piously scraping by, just so burdened and distraught by all of us Elites (R) in University churning out new terms. I just do not think that is an accurate reflection of reality: I think it is a narrative that conservative commentators churned out and liberals repeated because they are prone to self-flagellating (which probably arises out of a reasonable desire to introspect).

      If the working class was REALLY trying to communicate that message about economic struggles, then why were we spending so much of our time talking about p*ssy grabbing, muslim bans, mexican r*pists, border walls, BLM “riots,” etc?

      “But both sides are guilty – see eg why the f**k are we arguing about who gets to use which bathroom and what the impact will be on children when a sizeable minority of children don’t get three square meals a day?”

      Same with this distortion of reality- liberals would not be talking about “bathroom” issues so much if conservatives weren’t passing these bills to throw red meat to the base to get them out to vote. It’s the same exact thing they did with gay marriage back in the 90s. The best and only reasonably question is why is Pat McCrory and his ilk passed this bill when a sizeable portion of NC schools aren’t getting adequate funding, or children aren’t getting adequately fed, or Duke Energy is dumping coal ash into the water, etc etc.

    • Anonymous :

      In my city, someone said at a recent public meeting that our city spends millions on bike share and bike lanes while poor (esp POC) children have failing schools and dangerous neighborhoods. She had a very good point. And we continue to build bike lanes (b/c it’s do-able) while the schools fail (to big of a problem, I guess? not a priority for the Starbucks neighborhoods?). I’m not pleased.

      It’s like arguing about which fork to use after the iceberg has hit the Titanic.

      Priorities, y’all. Priorities.

      • Anonymous :

        bike lanes benefit everyone, not just the bikers using them. they benefit us all because (if done well) they reduce driving which reduces air pollution and traffic congestion. they (along with bike shares) also attract tourists, who bring money and jobs to the city.

        • Anonymous :

          If your kids can’t read and the bike lanes are in the fancy neighborhoods, no one belives that they bike lanes are for them. If the bike lanes were for people who live in neighborhoods with failing schools, they would be located *in* neighborhoods with failing schools.

          Maybe that would make people invest in those neighborhoods. Maybe the schools would get better. But they put the bike lanes and the light rail in the neighborhoods where everyone has a BA and no one reads at an 8th grade level (except maybe an actual 8th grader).

        • Yeah, no. Bike lanes do not benefit everyone. Fix the schools. Fix the potholes. I know cyclists feel they are a persecuted minority but they aren’t.

          • The bike lanes in my city are empty 99% of the time, and this is after my city spent millions putting in special lanes, promoting them, promoting bike safety, etc.

  18. I posted recently about knowing that my boss is likely getting fired soon. Well, it was supposed to happen yesterday … then today … and now supposedly on Monday. I feel bad for the guy — nice enough person, but terrible manager who is in over his head — but come on. Being around him is so uncomfortable because I gave the critical pieces of information that led to our mutual boss deciding he needs to go. Can we just rip the bandaid off already? When he leaves, I’m going to get a ton of work dropped into my lap and there doesn’t seem to be a real transition plan in place. I’m stressed to the max and really unhappy that this will be hanging over my head all weekend. And, of course, my husband is out of town and even though I really need some time to just chill and be alone, I’ll be flying solo with the kiddos. I’ve doubled down on things to manage my stress but it’s not helping much, unfortunately. I have suffered through so much job-related anxiety during the past year and I am just over it.

    • Anonymous :

      if they keep saying that it is going to happen a certain day and then it doesn’t, that usually means that it wont happen…

    • Don’t think about what’s going to happen. Just wait for it to happen. Stressing and worrying is a waste of time because we spend time coming up with scenarios that my not happen the way we think.
      So take it all on day at a time! and relax.
      I came across this interesting video about what stress can do to our brains. I posted it to my blog: http://sincerelybalanced.com/2017/03/17/how-being-stressed-out-affects-your-brain/

      It’s enlighting to know these things so we don’t consume ourselves with so much stress.

      Once your boss is gone, if you feel overwhelmed by the work, talk to the person you report to so they can put a strategy in place to help you out.

  19. Wanted: fabulous financial advisor :

    Looking for advice on finding a good financial advisor. Does anyone have suggestions on where to start? I live in a smallish town where I know a lot of folks in this line of work, but the thought of sitting down with any of them and spilling all the beans about every dollar I have to my name makes me uncomfortable. They’re great folks that I enjoy having a drink with, but I’d prefer that they not know exactly how much money DH and I have. (Maybe that’s weird?) I’m also cognizant of the multitude of scams out there and don’t want to trust our financial future to just anyone. Are there certain certifications I should make sure the person has? We haven’t had an advisor yet because honestly I didn’t know if we had enough money to “warrant” an advisor, but now that we’re more established, I feel like we could be more strategic/smarter with our finances. How many of you have a financial advisor, how often you engage with them and how much you pay them? Anybody have an advisor they’d be willing to recommend? Thanks in advance!

    • cat socks :

      If you have over 50K in Vanguard they provide personal advisors. My parents started using one and are happy with the results.

      Other than that, we’re in the same boat so will be helpful to see responses about what to look for in a good advisor.

    • TorontoNewbie :

      Why don’t you ask them for recommendations? Just say that you’re looking for someone who isn’t in your social circle.

    • I totally understand. My SIL is a financial planner, but I don’t want to mix family and business like that. I went to the web for the National Association of Personal Financial Advisors. I wanted to find a fee-only advisor. I did an interview with one and felt like it was a good fit. For me, he encouraged me to keep with Vanguard and helped set up allocations based on my goals and talked over other options.

      • +1

        Absolutely start with a fee-only advisor (where you pay them a flat fee for advice rather than paying them a percent of your assets). The National Association of Personal Financial Advisors website is the place to look for a fee-only advisor.

  20. I have a friend who is in her second year of a solo (mostly transactional) practice fresh out of law school. She’s feel very overwhelmed and even broke down on the phone to me this week. She has a paralegal, but may not be using her enough. I’ve reviewed the “How to use your assistant” thread and saw the recommendation for “Solo by Choice”. Are there other recommendations about how to support her as figures out her work? Thanks!

    • hope this helps :

      She has a LOT of resources for small businesses, women practitioners, women small business owners, state and federal and local departments of commerce or chambers of commerce. There’s a LOT of resources out there.

    • Let her know what all this stress is doing to her. It’s counter productive.
      I came across this interesting video about what stress can do to our brains. I posted it to my blog: http://sincerelybalanced.com/2017/03/17/how-being-stressed-out-affects-your-brain/

      Maybe she needs to break down her tasks into small manageable tasks. So they feel achievable and not so overwhelming.
      Connect her with someone who has done the program, who can mentor and give her helpful tips to manage the workload.

  21. Anybody been to Grenada? I’ve never been to the Caribbean before. I’m not one to just hang out out the beach, so this location looks to have more ‘to do’ things. I’ve never stayed at an all inclusive, so this location appears to have nice lodging options close to the water. Any other places in the Caribbean recommended? I’m looking at late June, early July.

    The other option was Greece, but I’m nervous traveling in Europe with the current climate. I’m open to any other travel ideas, locations. It would be a minimum of 2 weeks, 4 max.

    • Senior Attorney :

      Southeast Asia is wonderful. I left my heart in Cambodia but Vietnam is fun and I’ve heard great things about Thailand. It’ll be hot but fabulous.

    • I visited on a cruise and really like it. Put 2 to 4 weeks seems like a long time there. I second the recommendation for Southeast Asia, which I love.

    • Travel in Europe is perfectly safe right now. I’d go to Greece and one or two other countries if you have several weeks. The Caribbean is nice, but it’s very easy to visit for a week at a time and see an entire island well without feeling rushed.

      • Anonymous :

        Yes this. Do not waste two weeks on the Caribbean when you could visit Santorini, Naxos, and Crete.

  22. Quitting sooner or later? :

    I need advice about quitting my job. I’m in a manager-level position in a consulting firm (think cross between Big 4 accounting with annual work and BBM with ad hoc projects) and have been here for 5+ years. My husband got his dream job (yay!!) post grad school back near my hometown (living on the coast now, moving back to the midwest). Finishing grad school + his dream job + closer to family = all big wins and we’re excited for the move. We are planning to move in mid-June due to timing with our current lease, and I’m having a hard time figuring out when o tell work that I’m leaving. Factors complicating the matter:
    1) I’m currently burnt out and having a tough time motivating myself.
    2) I just wrapped up a lot of annual projects and we are starting to plan for next year’s work (think similar to annual audits). The bulk of the work won’t begin until May or June at the earliest, so I’m struggling to stay “on it” for planning right now when I won’t be here for the actual work.
    3) Annual review – not yet scheduled, but should be scheduled within the next month, max. I will need to set annual goals, one of which should be promotion (assuming I wasn’t leaving).
    4) Following annual reviews, there will be promotion discussions throughout May. If I were not moving, it’d be expected for me to be pushing for promotion at the end of this year (and so I should consequently be communicating this for consideration in May). If I don’t communicate this (because I’m leaving), it will seem…odd to those above me. If I do push for it, they would be advocating for me potentially weeks before I turn in my notice (and I would be leaving before it’s announced).

    Do I say something before two weeks out? Part of me just wants to raise it at my review. Not only am I starting to check out (see burned-out), but it would make the transition easier as my annual work would be started by someone who could manage it for the whole year. However, I know I should be looking out for myself and in theory they could say just be done at the end of April (and leave me 6-8 weeks without a pay check). As much as I want to get paid for that time, I’m starting to convince myself to just say something now as it’d be easier on everyone.

    Can you (wiser than me) ladies provide any advice/perspective?

    • Sorry. You know the answer. You look it for yourself. The company would have no hesitation about getting rid of you 20 minutes from now if their fortunes changed. Give two weeks notice, plan to not be paid if let go immediately, and also plan to be required to work those two weeks.

      • Quitting sooner or later? :

        Well, yes, but the part I just realized I didn’t mention above (Friday brain?) is that we’re planning to basically take the summer off (mid June – Aug). We have travel plans/family commitments scheduled and are taking advantage of this summer in between jobs. So I’m trying to figure out if the extra month of work (i.e., assuming I don’t say anything until 2 weeks before) is “worth” it.

        And my follow up to the “you know you the answer” (which, on some level of course I do, I just don’t like it!) – any advice for how to approach the next 6 weeks so it looks like I still have my head in the game? I have given a lot to this company/my coworkers (and they to me) over the last 5 years and want to leave on good terms. My ideal scenario is telling people sooner, but still staying on until the end of May-ish (though I realize it may be naive of me to think that’s on the table).

    • If I could afford to be unemployed for an additional six weeks (in the worst-case scenario), I would probably tell in mid to late April-i.e. at your review or shortly before. But only if I could handle them walking me out that day. And my position on this may be biased because we’ve often have people stay for 2 to 3 months after giving notice at my job.

  23. Nashville :

    Any other readers in Nashville TN? Would you want to do a meet up sometime? Like brunch (I’m a sucker for a good Bloody Mary) I recently relocated here and have found it difficult to meet other professionals as I work from a home office and my company HQ is in Minnesota.

    Also if anyone has suggestions on how to meet young professionals in a new city that would be awesome! I have zero connections here

    • Just saw this, so I hope I’m not too late, but I’m in Nashville and would love to meet up. Let’s figure out a way to make it happen! What area of town are you in? I’m in downtown.

      • Nashville :

        Yes! Too late for this weekend, but there’s next weekend! My name is Rebecca Cron, if you want message me on Facebook and we can grab lunch :)

  24. Sydney Bristow :

    This week was such a pain. I’m so glad it is the weekend. Hope you all don’t mind me venting a bit.

    I was brought in to help a team push through a ton of work to meet a deadline. The team leaders’ expectations of the speed at which we can get through this is just not close to reality. It is off even if everything was going smoothly because the entire project is super complicated. But add to that some crazy tech issues that is making everything take at least 3 times as long.

    My boss asked me how it was going and I told him the truth and showed him the extent of the tech issues. He pulled in IT who is going to try and help fix it. But it is exhausting because although I just joined the team, this has been going on for at least a month, if not longer. Hopefully they can fix it or at least make it a tiny bit better.

    Add to that the fact that I found a pretty big mistake that the leader had made and had to try and bring it up in a nice way as though I might be missing something that led to a decision even though I was 99% sure it was a mistake. I just feel like all I’ve done today is bring up problems and haven’t been able to actually help move things forward significantly like they wanted. Not to mention it is one of the most complicated projects I’ve ever worked on and is mentally exhausting to deal with in the first place.

    The good part though was that my boss told the IT person that I’m 4 times as fast as the typical employee and that’s why he assigned me to this project. I really need a nap (or 5) this weekend.

    • Congratulation’s on a tough week. You are to be commended for your dedication and hard work. You need to put your feet up and feel good. Yay for Sidney! Have a great weekend! You have earned it! YAY!!!

  25. Hi all, I have been following this website for some time to find advice on how to dress for work (and it helped me a lot! thank you). I write for the first time in the hope that there is someone in my situation. I did a PhD in humanities, but then I decided that I was tired of the low pay and the terrible job market and went into the private sector. I work as a consultant now, I’m pretty good and my new career is steadily advancing, but I miss academia terribly. I didn’t expect it at all. I miss the freedom, having time to think, libraries, conversations with my fellow academics. Is there anyone here who went from academia into the private sector and then back? Would it be a double career suicide going back? Should I stick to my current job and force myself to like it (but how?)?

    • Kristin Barsness :

      I left academia 20 years ago and totally understand missing the freedom, having time to think, great conversations with other academics, etc.. That said, I never wanted to go back to it full time–poor pay, out of control politics that completely control professional advancement, etc. The consulting firm I worked for had an academic bent and lots of bright individuals who wanted to have those big conversations–that helped me a lot. What is the vibe at your firm? I also have taught off and on as an adjunct, regularly present at professional conferences, and do a lot of mentoring of younger professionals. This feeds that part of me that loved the research, the conversations, and the thinking roles of academia.

      The reasons you left academia will not have changed, and you’ll be re-entering with time lost, which won’t help your career. Find other ways to get your academic fix, and enjoy all that your non-academic life provides.

      • Thank you Kristin, this is very helpful! My firm does not have the academic bent — my co-workers are super bright and I like them, but we do not share the academic background and we never have those big conversations. I always feel like I have to pretend to be someone else to fit in.

        I managed to publish a couple of papers and present at some conferences, but my working hours prevent me from doing more (like teaching as an adjunct) so I’m clearly behind those who stayed, and the reasons for leaving academia you mention did not go away in the meanwhile. Maybe I should look for consulting firms with more former academics. The firm you worked for sounds like a dream to me.

  26. I had an odd date last night and I’m hoping to get some responses. Let me say first that I’m not going to go out with this guy again because he used the term “Jew” to refer to someone being cheap. My issue is I’m not sure if that’s coloring my impression of something else that happened on the date.

    For the second date in a row, the guy networked on the date. He’s starting up a business in the restaurant industry so I get that that’s taking up a lot of mental space right now. Our dates have been at bars/restaurants so he’ll chat with the bartender or owner if they’re around. By itself that’s not a big deal, I’m the type to make friends at bars, and I wouldn’t bat an eye at him handing out a business card. But he’s having full conversations with these people specifically about business opportunities. I carved out time to be there with him, I’m not responding to emails on our date, I’d like the same respect. You can come back after the date is over and talk to the owners. Is this just how it is when you’re in a start up? You’re always on?

    • Ugh I miss the edit button. “Responses” in the first sentence should’ve been “perspectives.”

    • Anonymous :

      Both of these sound like fine reasons not to see him again. I would just move on.

    • Anonymous :

      I think this is very rude and disrespectful to you and your time, especially on a first or second date. This would be a reason I wouldn’t go out with him again (as would the Jew comment – in fact I probably would have stood up and left after that comment).

    • I dated a guy like this once. I would not do it again.

    • You just went out with a bigoted jerk. Not normal, not okay, next.

    • I have a friend I love, and when I moved to her city, and she was very busy, she, perhaps understandably would “multi-task” me with her friends. Hey! We’re going to x event, come along!
      Then I would have to meet her new friends, she’d talk with them, occasionally we two would chat, and there’d the event.
      This happened 5-7 times over a few months. I never got alone time with her. This was ok to some degree, and let me know where we stood.

      I feel like this guy multi-tasked his dating and business and that’s not so cool.

    • Anonymous :

      No, this is not how start-up founders are. I would guess he is self-conscious about going to a bar by himself to chat up someone about business (and frankly he should be – my business-owner clients hate, hate, hate people who chat up their waitstaff, bartenders, floor managers, etc. trying to get an “in.” If you want to do business with a business, call the owner/manager for an appointment during business hours.). So he’s dragging you along so the whole thing is more comfortable for him. How rude, and disrespectful of your time. I would just ghost him – don’t even waste time pulling a slow fade. He’s shown you he doesn’t respect your time; that’s pretty much all you need to know about this person.

  27. Legal Canuck :


    2 years ago, I was in a position which I loved (advocating for parents involved in Child Protection), however the project was cut and I lost my position. Now in a permanent position with the government and enjoy it but I am not challenged in it. However, it is permanent.

    They have reinstated the project and asked me to go back my old position (which I loved).

    I don’t know what to do, pay is better, benefits are same (medical, dental, pension), however is it not a permanent position, it is contract (no end date but I am concerned they will cut project if and when government cuts funding again).


    • I work in education and we are really concerned with all the cuts being proposed by Trump. This position may be similar. Questions to think about are: if it was cut, would you be ok financially if it took a little bit to find another job, would your old job have a position for you, etc…

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