Weekend Open Thread
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Sales of note for 2/14/25 (Happy Valentine's Day!):
- Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
- M.M.LaFleur – Save up to 25% on select suiting, this weekend only
- Ann Taylor – Up to 40% off your full-price purchase — and extra 60% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + 15% off (readers love their suiting as well as their silky shirts like this one)
- Boden – 15% off new season styles
- Eloquii – 300+ styles $25 and up
- J.Crew – 40% of your purchase – prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site and storewide + extra 50% off clearance
- Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Flash sale ending soon – markdowns starting from $15, extra 70% off all other markdowns (final sale)
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- My workload is vastly exceeding my capability — what should I do?
- Why is there generational resentment regarding housing? (See also)
- What colors should I wear with a deep green sweater dress?
- How do you celebrate milestone birthdays?
- How do you account for one-time expenses in your monthly budget?
- If I'm just starting to feel sick from the flu, do I want Tamilfu?
- when to toss old clothes of a different size
- a list of political actions to take right now
- ways to increase your intelligence
- what to wear when getting sworn in as a judge (congrats, reader!)
- how to break into teaching as a second career
Looks like my Easter dress when I was a 2nd grader in 1987 – puffed sleeves and all.
Yes, and that might be why I like it…
I appreciate the modest length but it’s too modest — can’t see how it wouldn’t look frumpy unless you were very tall.
I am very tall!!
It’s trying to be frumpy and unfrumpy at the same time (my mother wouldn’t wear this b/c of the neckline and then the not closed all the way down skirt). It’s like it’s just a little Juniper Creek, but not full Juniper Creek.
Underrated comment.
I agree. I am not tall and would look like a mess in this dress, and the slit in the front would be an open invitation to Frank to “investigate” and I do NOT need him to start poking around in my private area’s. FOOEY on Frank!
Thin legs and high heels might be the answer.
I was coming here to say that exact thing. I’m having flashbacks to childhood Easters. Grown women wore these things too, not just kids. Awwww. Happy times. If only I had some cadbury mini eggs.
Yeah, these dresses remind me of what I wore in the 80s.
And not in a good way.
I don’t mind it, aside from the front slit which I hate in all garments. I think it’s the kind of dress that looks better on a fuller or curvier figure and overwhelms a small person. It does kind of have that Mormon look about it, though.
That’s funny, that’s not the first time I’ve heard that about her line – that it has kind of a Mormon look to it. I didn’t get the impression that the designer was Mormon. I’m not Mormon, but I live in Utah, and I don’t think Mormons would wear this due to the neckline and the slit.
Ditto, except I was in 8th grade. The model needs some mall bangs, a Liz Claiborne logo purse and Revlon Silver City Pink lipstick.
Silver City Pink – my first lipstick!! I literally have not thought of it in more than 30 years, but I remember it immediately. Great memories.
Oh my god I forgot Silver City Pink. and Liz Claiborne. and Mall bangs.
Good times.
Yes, Laura Ashley/Jessica McClintock realness!
General style-wise, if this were shorter, my very fashionable 17 year old daughter and her super cute friends would be all over it. They’re really into these prints (especially blue florals, don’t know why) it’s a thing for sure
I love it but I think you need to have a something a bit edgy look to pull this off well – I don’t think it’s styled right; it needs some tattoos or a good haircut or something. I think I’m not at a point in more wher I could do it right now.
While DH is recovering from surgery, his parents are staying with us. They’ve been here a week, and will be for at least one more. I have a pretty good relationship with them, and I need and appreciate the help.
But all the same, it’s throwing me for a loop. Her constant housework leaves me feeling both guilty and infantilized. I feel like I should be busy too, but there’s nothing much left to do.
FIL is basically a needy manbaby. And I get frustrated with the gendered assumptions DH has about housework, but that’s irelevant at the moment, since he’s stuck in bed. It’s an odd blind spot, since MIL was a pioneer in the gender studies field with a travel-heavy career, but people are full of contradictions.
Advice? To manage my mental state, or manage my household while she’s here?
The housework gives her something to do and is her way of taking care of her family and showing her love. As hard as it is, try not to read it as a slight against you. I assume that you are busy with work and other things so it’s hardly like you are sitting around doing nothing while she tidies the house. My MIL lived with us for a few months and she was always asking if there was something that she could do chore wise. She didn’t have hobbies, wasn’t much of a reader, could only watch so much tv, and tended to be a homebody. Puttering around the house and keeping it straight was a big source of activity for her. This was foreign to me who would much rather have my nose in a book or being out doing something, but that’s just the way things are. Once I let go, it was really nice to come home and have dinner started, the laundry folded, etc.
Well, this first week I have been home, but at least next week I’ll be going back to work.
DH does 90% of the cleaning. Yet, when we visit my grandma, I will spend a large chunk of my time cleaning things for her, taking out the trash, organizing, all of that. All of which is normally DH’s job at home. I am just taking care of my grandma. So don’t judge too harshly, sometimes people (including me) deal with stress by deciding that all soap scum must be obliviated.
Recognize that it’s really awkward just to hang around in someone’s home. It’s much easier to have something to do or feel like you’re contributing. i NEVER know what to do with myself when I’m a houseguest.
Just recognize that it’s weird for her and for you, both. Muddle through. Have to leave and go “run errands.”
I agree. She probably wants to stay busy and help. No need to judge her for gender roles right now. Try to ease up a little on this.
Maybe she is Gifts of Service?
And maybe she is bored / lonely / has 3 hours of husband tasks and 10 hours to fill?
In that case, if she is good at housework, she can come to my house :)
Maybe she can batch cook stuff you can freeze for when she leaves???
This is so timely. My in-laws are visiting next week and she always spends a ton of time cleaning my house. I should appreciate it but part of the time I think “what, is it not clean enough for you?” She told me that she has a cleaning routine at home and it is part of her exercise. Just like we still exercise when we visit her, she still wants to clean when she visits us. So we let her do her routine. I’ve actually learned a few tips too, as resistant as I was.
She actually cleans while we are all sitting around so I feel lazy but to me, nothing is dirty. If she wants to vacuum my whole house everyday she can have at it.
Ahhhmmm…..
nevermind
Favorite breakfast to eat before hiking or other strenuous activity?
Scrambled eggs with meat + veggies or omelet.
Biscuits and gravy. But that’s partly because it helps with the motion sickness of mountain roads on the way to the trailheads.
Wow, I’ve never heard this! Any idea what’s behind it? (As if I needed another reason to love biscuits and gravy.)
No idea, I discovered it purely by accident. Logically, I think the absorbent starch is a big part, but the sausage gravy definitely helps too, and I don’t know why.
We usually eat something small on the way to the hike (an apple with peanut butter or yogurt or a granola bar) and then I pack breakfast burritos wrapped in foil and we eat those about half way through the hike. It is the best!
Oatmeal with peanut butter and bananas.
+1 Oatmeal with nut butter and fruit. I also add flax and chia seeds.
A breakfast sandwich on a bagel. So much more filling than eggs and bacon alone.
A banana. If I eat too much before exercise I feel sick. I’d bring snacks with me plus a more substantial meal to eat on the summit.
The answer can only be . . . cheese grits
My dear late aunt hiked every day, often before breakfast. Then she’d make breakfast bowls with country-style multi-colored fingerling potatoes stirfried with onion, jalapeno, and red pepper and topped with fried eggs, extra sharp cheddar, arugula, and hot sauce. Those breakfasts tasted so. damn. good. after a hike in the mountains.
That breakfast sounds amazing!
I usually go for two slices of sourdough toast + mashed avocado + 2 fried eggs, but then I’m a #millenial.
+1
I love this breakfast. And sometimes I cut up some tomatoes and sprinkle…. love the acid.
Chocolate oatmeal: steel cut overnight oatmeal, pb 2, cocoa powder and sugar. Maybe bananas and greek yogurt, and some nuts if you really need to feel full for a while
Homemade English muffin sandwich with 1 egg (scrambled and shaped into a little puck) and roast turkey instead of bacon. My Kroger sells rotisserie turkey breasts and they are great for this.
For those with kids, how do you all handle Mother’s Day with your & your spouse’s moms? This is my first Mother’s Day and I will be spending it with…my MIL (and FIL, and my DH and our kiddo). She is overall great and we get along well, but when it comes to things like her birthday, Mother’s Day, etc., DH knows (and I know) that if we do not spend time with her, we will never live it down. Generally I don’t care and just bite the bullet for things like her birthday, but I don’t know…the more I think about it the more it starts to annoy me that I can’t even have my FIRST Mother’s Day to myself. For the record, my own mother has never been very insistent on celebrations like this, so this is still a bit new to me. I will just deal with it this weekend, but looking for some commiseration I guess.
Nope. Don’t just deal with it this weekend. It’s your first Mother’s Day, and it sounds like it’s important to you. Tell DH that he has to find a way to make the day special for YOU specifically, not just as an add-on to your MIL’s celebration.
Yes, technically you’re not his mother, but your own kids are too small to do it themselves, so he needs to help them make it special for you until they can do it on their own.
+1 You are the MOTHER OF HIS CHILD and he should honor you for that.
I had to come to terms with the fact that until my mother in law dies, this “holiday” will always be her day, not mine. I worry that the year I say I want to do something with just our nuclear family will be the year she dies and I’ll always feel guilty about depriving him of their last Mother’s Day together.
If this were last month, I’d be giving you different advice. But since Mother’s Day is Sunday, my advice is to not rock the boat for this Mother’s Day and just see your MIL. My MIL used to insist that we spend all holidays or days adjacent to a holiday (like the day after Thanksgiving) with her. We decided that we were not going to do this anymore. What helped in dealing with her is giving her a good deal of notice so that she was prepared for us not being there, even if she didn’t like it.
You don’t want your first Mother’s Day to be overshadowed by your MIL being annoying AF. Because if you cancel on her now, it’s going to be A Thing, and then will the day feel special to you or will you just have memories of family drama?
But, I do agree that you should tell your husband that you want a celebration for just you, separate from your MIL.
And, I just want to point out that it’s not like we no longer celebrate Mother’s Day with our moms. We just started planning things like a brunch a week before or after. It’s still a Mother’s Day brunch, just not exactly on Mother’s Day.
I agree. I’m sorry OP you deserve to have your first Mother’s Day be all about you. But yeah the time to tell MIL that was like a month ago, not basically the day before.
But you should totally tell DH that this is feeling way more important to you than you thought it would. He can do plenty of things this weekend to celebrate you. And he should also curb his mom’s – This Is My Day attitude – by reminding her that you’re a mom now too so the brunch or whatever you’re doing is for both of you.
Hugs. My Mothers Day is being complicated by a visit from an inlaw I’m not crazy about, so I hear ya.
Can you tell your husband that it’s important for you to do something special, just the three of you? Like have him find a coffee shop in a cute neighborhood and take you there in the AM just to soak up some time with your little family unit. Or same idea but donuts in the park. Or in the evening, after inlaws have left, something similar?
This. Assuming you are planning one portion of the day with her, make the rest of the day whatever you want it to be. For me, it’s sleeping in and having him take kids to the park in the AM so I can relax at home without anyone there and then he comes back with breakfast from our favorite neighborhood place.
No advice, sadly, but I know my own Mother could commiserate with you. My Dad’s side of the family gets together for EVERYTHING (Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas, of course, but also Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, Grandpa’s birthday, Grandma’s birthday, and grandparents’ anniversary.) And the major holidays always have to be on the day of, so never in 35 years of marriage has my Mom gotten a holiday to herself and her family (her Mom used to schedule family parties around Dad’s side’s schedule because it was such a THING and she preferred to have everyone together than to adhere to a strict schedule. Gosh I miss her.)
Dad’s from a huge Catholic family (one brother and six sisters), so they rotate locations. And Grandpa 100% notices which of his grandkids make the effort to attend. It’s a massive PITA because it’s so many of my weekends and have next to nothing in common with my cousins (my Mom can say the same for her SILs). I love my grandparents dearly and will miss them when they’re gone, but I am definitely not going to miss all of these parties.
TL;DR It could be worse?
Commiseration. This happened to me. It never occurred to my H that it would be an issue. (It’s his mother. And she loves our kid. And why wouldn’t be all want to be together for a holiday?) I finally said something to him after two years. I realized he wasn’t going to read my mind. He thought he was doing the right thing honoring us both. Now, if his mom insists on coming for mother’s day, we celebrate “my” mother’s day another weekend. I get the sleeping in, etc. on another day.
I’m a firm believer in the idea that once a couple gets married, their family (them and their kid(s), if applicable) are the central family unit and everyone else is peripheral. If Mother’s Day is important to you, and if your preferred way of spending the day doens’t include MIL, then you shouldn’t have to see MIL on that day. DH can do something with her on a different day, maybe Saturday if you don’t have other plans then.
Fwiw, it’s also my first Mother’s Day this year. Neither my mom nor MIL live close by, but this year my in-laws announced they wanted to visit the grandbaby this weekend. They claim they don’t even care about Mother’s Day but this is the “most convenient weekend” for them. Saturday is my birthday (which they have never once acknowledged in the 13 years I’ve been with their son) and Sunday is my first Mother’s Day, so that was a hard pass on my part. DH told them “No you can’t come this weekend, you can come any other weekend in May or any weekend in June.” They were upset but I don’t really care. Your husband needs to stand up to his mom and tell her that now that you’re a mom, this is your holiday too.
Today I was definitely diagnosed with Fibromylagia after months of being really sick and a few years of not being well. One of the things I’ve decided is that I am going to be open about my diagnosis and not try to hide it. Taking care of myself is the best way to prevent flares and I want it to be clear to everyone in my life that I’m not just being “lazy” but truly have a debilitating disease that will affect the rest of my life. For those of you with a chronic disease, how do you go about sharing it with friends, family, co-workers? At work, what have you done to advocate for yourself?
I worry about keeping my career in higher ed on the path that I’ve planned. My career is hugely important to me (especially after my divorce a few years ago) Any ‘rettes with Fibro willing to talk about how they cope and keep up a career? I don’t want to be semi retired and working from home in a few years, I’m in my 30s and had plans for working my way up the higher ed ladder (I’m already well underway, or I was until I got sick and started missing so much work….)
Work from home is not something that anyone at my current institution supports so much so that I’ve been told the only way to get flexible scheduling and the ability to work from home on occasion is to file an ADA claim. Which I am willing to do. Any suggestions for that?
I’m so interested to hear if anyone has suggestions. I also am in higher ed (as faculty, sounds like you might be admin?) and have a chronic illness that causes pain, nausea, and fatigue, most of the day, every day. I don’t have a lot of advice, because I don’t think I’m coping with it very well and I mostly just don’t tell anyone. I’ve started hinting at some aspects of it to some people, but I never let people know how bad it actually is. At least in my field, there’s a huge stigma associated with any kind of illness or disability and I don’t feel like people are willing to work with me on it. On the other hand, trying to cover it up has added a huge amount of stress to my life and made a difficult situation even harder to deal with. If you’re in a position where you can be open about it, you should be.
Don’t know if I can really share a success story but I want to wish you all the best. I have POTS which many people with CFS/ME have, which for me means a really fast heart rate which tires me out quickly. I go to bed at 6pm and sleep until 8 am. It doesn’t leave a lot of time for fun. I agree that illness and disability is stigmatized in the workplace. Everyone, including me wants to contribute as much value as possible and when someone isn’t able to be 100% it isn’t the greatest. Most people know about my condition at work as I’m currently working part-time (25 hours a week). While my health has improved over the year I’ve been working part-time, work is more stressful as there is no one to fill in the extra hours. There is lots of work left undone and that stresses me out. That being said my boss is really supportive, he has said he’d rather I’d be transparent about this than burn out. I’d be careful about working from home as you still need energy to focus there though if it saves a commute and getting ready time it may work for you. I’d recommend doing things that may help with your situation on a trial basis so you and your team/boss can reassess to determine what is working the best.
All the best!
I left faculty track for admin partially to try and get a better work life balance and work on my health. Turns out my health problems weren’t just tenure track stress…. But now I know and I’m figuring out how to cope. I decided early on that I was going to be completely open about what I have and how it affects me, partially influenced by a friend who has not easily seen disabilities and is very open about it.
Your questions are not questions I have figured out, as I’m also only recently diagnosed. I didn’t end up having fibromyalgia, but I do have small fiber neuropathy (which many fibromyalgia patients also have, so there’s some overlap). I’m also in higher ed, and plenty of people work from home sometimes, so I’m disappointed that there’s no routine support for this in your environment. Getting ready and commuting every single day is an energy drain, especially with no parking on campus, but I make good use of my time in the office on the days I do go in. Flexible hours, reduced hours, and the option to work from home (or a coffee shop closer to home) some of the time helped me survive the time it took to get a diagnosis.
Like Anon at 4:33, I pretty much had to do part-time hours, since I was becoming exhausted and dealing with syncope and presyncope on bad days, but obviously it’s better to stay full-time if you can (there’s more natural downtime in a full-time schedule, whereas part-time hours tend to be 100% concentrated work).
I know no one asked, but if anyone reading this is dealing with CFS/ME or dysautonomia symptoms, consider looking into the medication Mestinon (pyridostigmine bromide). My PCP considered it when these symptoms started, but was ultimately uncomfortable with the idea (I think she was pretty sure I was “just stressed”). When I finally got in with an autonomic and neuromuscular neurologist more than a year later, the neurologist prescribed this within 10 minutes of my first visit (and it started helping within thirty minutes of taking the first dose). It has helped so much that I regret not trying it sooner, and I guess that’s why I feel compelled to at least mention it.
(And now I’m embarrassed about offering an unsolicited med recommendation. Every possible disclaimer applies here! I just don’t really know why doctors aren’t more familiar with this med–or these conditions, for that matter. Though I do know that a lot of research is under way.)
No need to apologize. It is very relevant and honestly, many times I have gotten excellent recommendations online that point me in a direction I can work on with my doctor. You supplied very valuable information and a drug that honestly only a neurologist would know or ever use. So thanks for that.
I guess it’s also relevant that one liability of being open about one’s illness is that people are going to recommend things! Best wishes to everyone in this thread.
Pale Girl – this might be a repeat if you’re the one that posted about a potential diagnosis last week. I recommended the book “Women Work and Autoimmune Disease” by Joffe and Friedlander. It has chapters about how to tell bosses/coworkers (or not to tell), how to deal with flares and low energy periods, how to keep your career progressing and I think it’s a useful book. You should be able to get a hard copy or kindle copy at your library or via amazon.
On the teleworking/ADA question, I’d say if you, knowing your office, think you can contribute and do quality work from home then yes, ask for the accommodation. Your office limits it to people that really need it and you would be in that category so give it a try. In addition to the actual ADA application, you might write out a proposal to your boss, stating the times and parameters that you’ll evaluate to determine when you work at home, how to still meet your objectives etc., like you would for a job-sharing proposal or business proposal/job description. State the benefits to the department (e.g. work still gets done), how you’ll handle communications (e.g. forward phone, email access/response, whatever your department needs) and that you’ll work at home to conserve your energy and still get x, y and z tasks done on-time and without having to hand them off to someone else. Indicate that the reduced stress will (hopefully) make you sick less often and lead to less time off work so there is a benefit to the department.
There are a couple other posters on here with Crohns and UC so maybe they’ll chime in with their experiences.
Not a fibro person myself but you might find the film “UnRest” interesting – it’s about chronic fatigue specifically but gives a really good analysis of the difficulty of functioning with and communicating about autoimmune disorders. There’s a whole social media community built around the terminology of the “spoon theory” so checking Twitter, etc. for #spoonies might give you some people to follow and some general resources.
Research suggests that the more social support you have the better your mental health will be, and that can impact your physical health as well, so this is a good time to activate and build your network of friends, family, care providers, religious or other communities.
Being matter of fact and having a short explanation for people, a couple of sentences, is probably going to be useful. In a higher ed environment I’d hope that there would be some understanding of healthcare needs but of course that’s not always the case.
I’m the Biglaw associate with a chronic illness who posted in response to a similar question last week.
I would also add that for many of us with difficult-to-diagnose chronic illnesses, the time before diagnosis can often be the worst, since you don’t know what’s going on and can’t use therapies that could benefit you. Plus, the stress and uncertainty is a huge energy drain.
Now that you have a diagnosis I would hope and expect that things might get a little easier from here. There will be an adjustment period and probably some ups and downs as you try out different options. Eventually, I hope that you’ll be able to settle into something that works and experience some symptom relief.
So, I wouldn’t rush to make any big decisions right now or worry that your experience over the past months and years is necessarily analogous to what your life will be like going forward. Focus on one day at a time right now and on getting the support you need–hopefully you will be in a better place.
Personally, I am 10 years out from my dx–was symptomatic for about 6 years prior to that, including some life-threatening stuff and a number of hospitalizations, one for almost a month. I have only been hospitalized briefly once since my dx and in general, have seen huge improvement in my health and well-being now that we know what’s going on and can try different strategies to address it. I would say it took me about 1.5 years from dx to really stabilize and then I had another turning point 3 years after that when I started seeing a new doctor who was able to apply some of the latest research. There have certainly been ups and downs in that time but in general it is an upward trajectory. There will be a point where I start going downhill again but I now know what preventive steps I can take to hopefully delay that as long as possible. Again, your experience may differ but from those I know in the chronic illness community, you will likely need some amount of time post-diagnosis to get on a plan that is workable for you, and then you can expect to see some improvement or at least find ways to adapt and manage.
Talk to a lawyer about how to ask for accommodations. Employer obligations vary by state. Talk to your doctor about what to ask for, and make sure she’ll be willing to document your restrictions for you. Then ask for what you need. Assume that each new boss will need to be advised of the situation but that it’s not something you have to reveal to others.
This looks like a dress I might wear around the house on weekends, but that slit in the front is just odd. I’m not a fan of slits in general but I just don’t need people seeing up the front like that.
Anyway, I found two great things at Target yesterday: simple white t-shirts that are super soft, and NOT super see-through; and a nice black pencil skirt . . . with pockets! Pockets!
It’s very Naughty Juniper Creek.
Can you post links to the Target finds? I could use a new black pencil skirt in a Target price range!
https://www.target.com/p/women-s-ponte-pencil-skirt-a-new-day-153-black/-/A-52566782
The zipper is visible which I know isn’t ideal for some folks here, but I’m pretty excited for it.
Wow! POCKETS!!
I have this and love it! Mine is a size too large, so it’s extremely comfortable, especially with the pockets. I work in a casual office, so it’s dressy for me. But the thicker fabric and zipper mean it’s less formal than other pencil skirts.
I’ve read here that it is better to use a sunscreen on the face that is separate from one’s moisturizer. Can anyone recommend what sunscreen product you’re using for daily wear? I’m not particularly fair and don’t live in a particularly sunny place, so this is more for general sun damage protection. Bonus if it’s available at Sephora or drug stores – I would prefer to avoid ordering online.
Cetaphil SPF 15
I use Neutrogena Ultra Sheer (I think SPF 45?), which I got in a value pack at Target.
I use Elta MD (from Amazon), but I have heard good things about Super Goop (which I believe you can find at Sephora).
+1 EltaMD. I get it online from Costco.
Same here with EltaMD, but I get it from my dermatologist. I use the EltaMD aero broad spectrum spray (mineral), which I prefer. I also use La Roche-Posay anthelios ultra light which is chemical. Neither of them pill or melt under my makeup or cause me problems with my rosacea, although the Roche-Posay is a little ashier sometimes.
Drunk Elephant Umbra, physical sunscreen with SPF 30. Love it – I have the sheer version (they also offer a lightly tinted one) and it goes on very nicely, with no white cast as physical sunscreens often do. Available at Sephora if you want to sample, but if you buy from DE website you can get a 15% welcome code.
La Roche Posay tinted moisturizer with SPF 50 (or maybe 55).
Second LRP. They have an extensive range. My go to is the ultra fluid non tinted as it’s non comedogenic, not shiny and doesn’t look ashy on my darker complexion.
I use Super Goop (from Sephora).
This! I am a total convert to the SuperGoop Unseen Sunscreen. It works as both sunscreen and primer, which I adore.
Anything Shiseido is great (Ulta or Sephora), or La Roche Posay (Target, Walgreens, Ulta)
Biore watery essence SPF 50, but I think you can only get it online (Amazon). It is one of the countless suggestions that I have gotten here over the years, and I love it.
Seconded! Love watery essence. It basically doubles as my primer, I find makeup stays well on top of it and it is just matte enough.
LOVE. About to order a new one.
I’m looking at making a career change in the next 2.5 years or so from law (not a lawyer) to CPA. I’m starting to keep an eye on job listings to see what kind of work is available in my area and what kinds of positions I might be interested in. There are so many niches and landing places that it can be overwhelming! (Although this is also what attracted me to accounting in the first place). Any accountant/CPA ladies care to share your story and how you like where you landed?
Do you have a B.A. in accounting? Are you taking classes? If not, the options for accounting work is pretty limited. You could be a bookkeeper, but not a CPA.
I think you need to decide if you want to be an accountant or a CPA which is a specific professional designation. There are plenty of accounting jobs that do not require a CPA license that also go beyond bookkeeping, however, even those will generally top out at mid-management.
CPA licenses are issued by each state so some requirements may vary, and you should look at the state(s) you intend to practice. You will need:
– a number of credits in accounting courses (maybe not a degree but masters is probably the easiest way to do this);
– pass the 4-part CPA exam;
– work for a time at a CPA firm in order to get the work experience signoffs (1-2 years maybe?)
Alternatively, there are a few other accounting designations (CMA, CISA, CIA, etc.) I do not have any of those but know some people who do. They don’t really have the cachet (if you can call it that) of a CPA but they are still relevant to certain types of roles. You might also consider a CFA or an MBA, both of which seem to be considered in lieu of a CPA for some higher level roles.
If you really want to go the CPA route I’m sure we could offer more advice on firms and exit strategies but it wasn’t clear from your OP if you are just interested in accounting or really want to go public.
Finance directors are often ex-accountants, many ex-CPAs. Depending on the firm, the pay would be 100-500K. You do have to know operations and your industry. That said: CPA cert does not guarantee any work other than the tax prep stuff or entry level consulting. Entry level consulting can be great for skills and connections development, and can eventually lead to a partner track. But how is this that different from law?
Ah, I was a little bit vague. I’m working on a B.A. in accounting and plan to sit for the CPA exam as soon as possible after I graduate (hence the 2.5-year timeline). I will meet all of the criteria to sit for my state’s CPA exam upon graduation. So I plan to be making this career change as a newly minted CPA. Thanks for your advice!
And to clarify why I’m looking at a career change to begin with – I don’t see law school as financially viable, given the cost of school and the legal market in my area. My nature and skill set are well suited to accounting work, and I’m looking for a career with a path upward without law school (whereas in law there’s a really thick glass ceiling without law school).
Getting a BA in accounting and a CPA gives a plethora of options. You could do any number of sub-careers like auditing, in-house accounting, tax preparation, financial analysis, consulting – there are so many options available it might be overwhelming. So in the next year or two, I’d recommend talking to a wide variety of accountants. Talk to your professors and see if they have contacts that you could have informational coffee chats with or job shadow. Go to your local AICPA meetings – they should have a student membership and see if they have networking events or even student events or job fairs. I think you’d want a first job that is heavy on skill building and mentoring and doing this prep work will help you land the right job when you finish.
ok this got a little long – good thing it’s the weekend
Sounds like you are well on your way. To clarify though you won’t be a CPA after those steps – you’ll still need relevant work experience which is what I think in Anon at 5:19 is trying to say. No certification “guarantees” any job and those she listed are really the ones CPAs start with because they satisfy the work experience requirements in most states.
My path was pretty typical: Big4 (audit – financial services) -> small consulting -> financial reporting for small investment startup. I like financial reporting but others take roles more focused in compliance, internal audit, data management, operational accounting, technical accounting policy. In smaller companies it’s usually a mix of all of those.
Audit can be great for exposure to a lot of different jobs and I interacted with the accounting team from top to bottom at my clients (granted some of the top came later in my career). I had large and small clients and the smaller clients, by virtue of having smaller audit teams, tend to give broader exposure to the newer staff. Big4 is not required but there are a lot of job listings that prefer Big4 or large regional firm experience (which I actually think is unfortunate but worth looking for in your local listings to see if it’s something you should consider).
If your ultimate goal is to work in industry (“in-house”) and you have a specific industry in mind I would aim for a firm that has a practice serving those clients in your area. Spend 3-4 years and then make the jump to industry as a senior associate. I could see the case for sticking it out until manager but you already have other work experience and I’m not sure the extra years would be worth it in terms of pay/quality of life. If you don’t have a preferred industry then my advice is the same but you should look into what industries are growing in your area particularly if they may have unique issues (i.e., tech companies have different accounting issues than traditional retail companies) because they will want to hire people with that specific experience.
If your ultimate goal is to make partner in public accounting then you stick it out but I would expect 12-15+ years in most markets currently.
I don’t know how useful this site is but in my associate days Going Concern was the Above the Law equivalent (although seemed to be very biased toward people looking to get out of public so take that into consideration when reading).
This is all very helpful, and thank you for pointing out the work experience piece of the CPA qualification. I was leaning toward auditing anyway, as several people I know have used that as a launchpad into industry (usually going to work for former clients). Thanks for the insight!
Just booked a conference in LA in late July/early August, and it looks like I’ll have about 8 hours to kill before my flight home. I’ll be staying in the financial district, and my hotel appears to have a killer spa, but what else should I do to fill that time? Never spent much time in LA – only drove through once – so would appreciate any fun suggestions downtown. Not interested in Disney or renting a car. Thanks!
The MOCA! The Broad! The Bradbury Building! Grand Central Market! Clifton’s!
A little further, you can go to the Geffen, Little Tokyo, Angel City Brewery, etc.
All of this! Angel’s Flight has re-opened so be sure to ride it up and down.
And Olvera Street and Union Station! LA Heritage (or whatever it’s called) does really great walking tours of Union Station.
Adding that you could do LACMA + LaBrea Tar Pits + lunch at La Brea Bakery and stay in one spot
Thanks for these! Sounds right up my alley.
I never found anything of interest in downtown LA (honestly, 8 hours isn’t much time to kill when it will take you an hour+ to get more than 5 miles away from your hotel). I would personally hit up the spa.
Taxi/Uber to Manhattan Beach (by the airport) and enjoy the little shops, the beach, and the people watching. Of course, I am in the mid-west and use every spare LA moment to be at the beach when I travel there and the beach is not for everyone.
The Broad is incredible. I’ve heard that if you wait in the line without tickets, you’ll most likely get in no problem. There are two MOCA’s downtown. If you take a short Uber (or walk) go to the MOCA Geffen then hit up Angel City Brewing. The Art’s District is great for hip people watching or boutique shopping. Wurstkuche is a delicious place to eat, as are so many great restaurants in Little Tokyo next door.
Main Street and 4th is another bustling area with excellent restaurants. The Central Library downtown has an excellent gift shop and great events although you probably won’t be there late. If you like sample sales, the fashion district has loads of them. Try the Cooper Design Space. Downtown LA is so much fun.
I am having a beach wedding next winter, and am looking to find some nice flats to go with my dress. I have pretty severe hyperhidrosis, so I would ideally like to get a closed-toe flat to keep my sweaty feet hidden away. Any suggestions for cute, wedding flats?
D’Orsay Option:
Blue by Betsey Johnson Lucy
Pointed toe flats:
Blue by Betsey Johnson Ava
Badgley Mischka Malena
Badgley Mischka Gigi
This season BHLDN had some super cute flats.
If anybody does like this style it immediately reminded me of this Amazon dress for $25: http://a.co/eRlByPI
I think I like the Amazon versions more actually.
I kind of love the Amazon version! Longer (less awkward) length, no puffed sleeves, more pattern/color choices. Seriously considering this for a dressier weekend outfit.
Yes, thanks!
If you include hashtags in your email signature, please leave. Leave my inbox, leave my department, leave the company, leave the workforce overall. Stressful Fridays give me zero tolerance for this kind of garbage.
Aaaaaahhhhhhhhh
You sound lovely.
…Who does this kind of thing? Is the coworker in question a college intern? Do you work at Twitter or some place like that where hashtags are part of the business? Because I just cannot imagine this happening in any of the workplaces I’ve ever worked in.
#BeBest
I don’t do this but does it cause problems in some applications or is it just an aesthetic thing?
#confused…what hashtags are people putting in their email sig?
Please educate a 45 year old…. why would someone do this?
Husband is interviewing with Amazon next week. According to him, no one wears suits to these types of interviews but he’s still asking for my advice on what to wear. Managerial semi-technical position. Thoughts??? I am in “suit forever” camp and can’t fathom showing up to an interview in jeans and a sweater but maybe that’s correct in this case? Or khakis (does anyone wear khakis anymore?).
I don’t know the Amazon culture, and hopefully someone else will chime in. However, I do know that “suits forever” can get you into trouble in some companies. You look out of touch with the company culture, and it can count against you. Believe him if he says no one wears suits.
He should absolutely not wear a suit or tie. I would say nice tailored jeans, button-down shirt, and open jacket/blazer. Or lose the jacket/blazer and wear pants/shirt…because slacks plus jacket/blazer is too close to a suit.
I know it sounds weird, I didn’t believe it myself until I got here. For my interview I wore black pants and a cable fine-knit sweater over an untucked button-down shirt.
THANKS!
I’d go either slacks+button down shirt, or jeans+button down+blazer.
I interviewed with Amazon a few years back. I went with the dressy end of business casual. A tie for your husband would be too much. I think jeans are too casual. I didn’t get the job but I doubt it had anything to do with my sartorial choices.
Anyone want to do some vicarious shopping for me? I’m looking for plus size clothes for a week-long vacation to the French Riviera this summer. I’ll probably visit Cannes, Monaco, and St Tropez, and do some beach days.
I have 2 nice casual day dresses, but otherwise I’m unsure what to bring. Anyone have any ideas? Links appreciated!
https://m.shop.nordstrom.com/s/eliza-j-knot-front-maxi-dress-plus-size/4629103?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&fashioncolor=NAVY%2F%20IVORY
This also comes in a lovely blue and white. I own both. I can’t even begin to describe how flattering the fit is. And it’s perfect for travel: Doesn’t wrinkle and looks casual with flip flops and dressy with sandals. And works with a regular bra so no need to pack a strapless.
I like the slightly dressy tops from Talbots. You can pair with white jeans or other pants and look very chic. Also maybe a maxi dress.
I have been asked to contribute to a “diversity” article at my company that focuses on experiences of female minorities in leadership roles. I am an immigrant female in a leadership role but I am white as white gets. I do not feel comfortable considering myself a minority as I recognize that simply the color of my skin afforded me opportunities other immigrants and non-immigrants did not have. I have attempted to politely decline but still receiving pressure. How do I politely decline more decidedly? Or is there some merit to participating that I am unable to detect?
Yes! As an immigrant, you had some sort of learning/adjusting/getting used to the US to do, without the advantage of being used to the local culture, right?
Anyway, diversity isn’t just about advantage and disadvantage — based on your background/home culture, you presumably have a different perspective on some aspect of [industry] culture or leadership that you can contribute, and that other people can benefit from. What do you see that others might not?
An immigrant and a minority are not the same thing. If they want her perspective, then the article needs to be switched to focusing on “women in leadership roles” otherwise it screams tone deaf and the minority workers will roll their eyes.
I think the main issue is that the company wants to do an article on “female minorities” in leadership roles. OP is not a minority; an immigrant yes, a minority in the common sense of the word, no. I guarantee if this article came out with your smiling blonde face on it, right or wrong, people would be offended and rightfully assume your company is completely out of touch diversity-wise. It’s similar to when law firms have a diversity panel that has 4 our of five white males as speakers, and maybe one white latino.
Do you think you might feel better if you just put it all out there like you did for us here? Like “I’m an immigrant female in a leadership role, but I am as white as it gets. I recognize that the color of my skin afforded me opportunities other immigrants and non-immigrants did not have. Here are some of the things I’ve learned about whatever whatever leadership, informed by my perspective as an immigrant woman. Here are some other things I had to learn as they were adjustments from my cultural background. While I’m happy for the opportunity to share my perspective, it’s also imperative that we look to minorities/marginalized groups to hear what they have to say about this, etc. etc.”
+1
And then the organizers can choose to run it or not.
The most effective way to turn down something like this is to propose an alternate solution. “for xyz reasons I don’t feel like I’m the right fit to write a piece on this topic. Might I suggest that you tap Deepa from xzy department for this? She is a great writer and I’d enjoy hearing her viewpoint.”
Personally, I think as a woman and person from a different culture you do have interesting insights on the topic of diversity.
As the only brown first gen. immigrant girl amongst 100 plus “as white as it gets” coworkers, I have many interesting stories to share?.
I am fairly senior in my corporate non-law job (manager’s manager is C-Suite). I’ve been pushing my manager to give me a promotion and more responsibilities, and he has agreed to do something by this summer (coming up with a new role and needs approval from C-suite).
On the side, I also have a fairly serious hobby of ethnic dance which I have been doing on and off for the last 10 years. (In my late 30s now). I signed up to do a 4-hour recital which will be a graduation/completion of sorts. I have been putting it off for years and I dont plan to teach or launch a full scale dancing career (not at my age!) since most people doing this are kids. (I’m in a batch with teenagers). This event will be in August and I have been training for it – it’s physically demanding and requires energy and flexibility.
I would like to (1) work from home one day a week, and (2) in addition maybe work from an office near my home a second day of the week until the event in August. This will save me 1 hour each way in commuting and I can spend 2 extra hours on those days doing the workout and practicing.
My question is how to bring this up with my manager without risking my promotion or looking uncommitted. I feel like it sounds silly to say “ethnic dance/graduation” etc and almost want to say something generic like “training for an event”. But if I’m asked a follow up (is it a marathon?) I’ll have to say it isn’t quite and fess up.
Also wondering if I should wait to request the flexibility until the promotion comes through (but it doesn’t have a set date).
Any tips for having this conversation?
I think asking for this is ridiculous, and not because it’s ethnic dance. I wouldn’t ask for WFH in order to train for a marathon either. These are hobbies and adults fit hobbies in around their work schedule, not the other way around.
Yeah, I have to agree with this. I’m actually kind of stunned that you would think it is ok to ask for something like this, particularly as you are pushing for a promotion.
I think that this may be one of those times that in life, regrettably, we cannot have everything. The time when you are pushing for a promotion and more responsibilities is not also the time to be asking to work from home 2 days a week to “train for an event” (I don’t think it matters what the event is.). Just being real. In my company, when someone is gunning for a promotion they need to lean in pretty hard leading up to the promotion and then for a few months after. Then they can move their schedules around, take long vacations, etc. If you’re serious about making the promotion happen soon, I wouldn’t make this ask. If it doesn’t matter as much to you when the promotion happens, ask for these changes, do your event, and then lean back in after August.
Thank you and that’s very valid. If it matters, the promotion has been in the works for a little while and my manager sort of agreed it is due (last quarter he went into a lengthy explanation, almost apology, on why he couldn’t make it happen yet).
The dance thing has been going on for a while too, and if I miss this summer, I’ll have to postpone to next summer (graduation timing is fixed).
So worst case, I’m ok waiting another few months for the promotion but don’t want to postpone the dance thing another year, since my achy knees after 2 hours of intense workouts already make me feel like I’m too old for this stuff.
Then drag yourself out of bed earlier or do it after work like every other adult with a hobby.
If you really must make this ask, I wouldn’t key it to “training for an event.” I would say “I’d like to save some of the commute time so I can focus on work.” Then, if you don’t want the flexibility when the dance recital is over, you can just go back to working at the office.
Not sure the type of work you do, but in addition to this kind of request upsetting your supervisor, it would seriously peeve me if I was a colleague and confuse me if I was under you in the hierarchy.
Why should I have to show up every day if you don’t? Why might I have to take on additional responsibilities because you aren’t present certain days? If I was rising through the ranks, I’d be pretty mad/confused if I couldn’t get this WFH kind of latitude when I made it into your current position.
I 100% get why you want to make this change. However, unless you are willing to sacrifice your promotion, some professional relationships, and more, it’s not likely to be a good idea to even ask.
However, if you are willing to sacrifice these things, it’s up to you to know whether you will consider it still worth the sacrifice when this event is over and you’re still working your way back into coming across as fully committed to the job.
Sorry, but your attitude drives me bonkers in the workforce. Equitable does not mean equal. High performers can get benefits that lower performers don’t. People who have special circumstances can get special treatment and if you should ever need to similarly request special treatment you will get it. I’m also not someone with kids or elderly parents but I have no problem when other people that I work with get special treatment. If I had a reason I needed to come in at 10 I’m sure I’d be granted it. That doesn’t mean I should be allowed to come in at 10 just because I wanted to. Whenever I hear someone say “it’s not fair” I just picture little toddlers that have to have the same toys and the same snacks. We are adults. Different circumstances lend themselves to different treatment.
I get your point but I have to disagree. It’s typically people who get married who get an extended vacation approved for their honeymoon, so they are able to travel for longer than someone who never marries. Those with child(ren) are considered to have valid excuses to come late/leave early/take a day off, so those who don’t ever have kids always carry that weight but never have access to the same type of flexible scheduling.
I’m not saying no one should have wiggle room, I’m just pointing out that for those without a spouse or kids, there is not likely any time for them/us to benefit from the same leniency and flexibility that others have.
…I’m of the same mind when it comes to smokers too; why is it acceptable that they get 15 minute breaks throughout the day but the nonsmokers work through that time? Either give everyone breaks and people can choose how to spend it or don’t give them so that those without this habit aren’t stuck juggling their own work plus phone lines or other tasks when a colleague wants a smoke.
That’s why I’m more forgiving of the OP’s request. It would provide flexibility to someone in a situation that is different from kids/spouse/parents.
Don’t. You cannot be serious. Don’t risk your job for a hobby.
OP, and I’m genuinely surprised at the vehement responses.
There are folks at my workplace who have a permanent work from home situation (in another state where the company doesn’t have a presence). There are others who temporarily (e.g. for the summer) moved to a different country (for spouse reasons) and worked remotely.
I am only requesting a day a week of not commuting, and only till August so less than three months. Not saying I won’t work or that others need to pick up the slack. I thought having a set end date would make it clear that this is not a general loss of professionalism but only a very temporary one.
My other choice would be to take a few days off or on unpaid leave to do the intense training, but I don’t need the full day, just the extra couple of hours.
Given the responses I am seriously reconsidering, but also I am in no way intending to “risk my job” – does it really sound that bad?
I don’t live in the US. I’m Indian and this sounds like a Bharat Natyam arangetram type of thing.
Culturally it would be a big deal and I can see why it’s important , if similar type of thing.
But it depends on your relationship with supervisor.
Whatever you decide, good luck.
I guess I just think the reason is crazy. My workplace is super laid back and there are lots of people who work from home but I still wouldn’t ask for WFH to pursue a hobby. For a shorter commute, sure, so maybe you can pitch it as that. But if I told my
boss “I need more time for my hobby” he would laugh at me.
Yes! It’s really that bad. Take the vacation. That’s totally fine. Working from home for a hobby is bonkers.
I guess it’s a ‘know your workplace’ kind of thing. I think requesting even one day of WFH/week is a pretty big ask (very doable and reasonable at certain companies, but a big change nonetheless), and that’s kind of incompatible with gunning for a promotion that requires your boss put himself on the line (because he needs to invent a whole new role and get approval from the c-suite).
I do think your timing and judgment is a little bit off here, but you also need to take into account who the typical commenter is here when reading their comments. Lots of Biglaw.
I just discovered the Eclipse dress by Anthropologie when I saw it on someone and I stopped to tell her how stunning she looked. Now I’ve looked it up and seen the price tag. Ouch! Anyone know of a similar that’s more affordable? (If it matters, I’m somewhere between an hourglass and a pear and petite length, though I’d be willing to hem if something can be hemmed.)
LINK: https://www.anthropologie.com/shop/canon-dress?cm_mmc=userselection-_-product-_-share-_-43122464
That dress is sold many places – you can probably find it cheaper. Check department stores, Amazon, etc. 20% off though is a good deal.
DH just did something and in 2 minutes, wasted 2 hours of my time and a bit of money. I’m so grumpy because he didn’t do it on purpose but he pretty much ruined the only thing I was looking forward to this weekend and he’d never be selfless enough to put the time into fixing it. Sorry, I’m just sad and don’t have anyone IRL to tell this to.
Sorry to hear that. I guess entangling your life with that of someone who is not infallible has its downsides along with its upsides.
Wow, that’s a bit sanctimonious.
I appreciate that the OP doesn’t want to say bad things about her husband to her friends; such things can be toxic. But that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have a right to be upset, and it doesn’t mean she can’t be upset that he wouldn’t try to fix it.
Here is a similar example (details changed). Use some vacation time to come home early from work to finish varnishing a table, a project I’ve been looking forward to finishing. I finish the project just before DH gets home, once home he puts his hand in the varnish and smears it, only way to fix it is to strip the table and start over. DH just says oops.
So you married an 80s teen movie villain? You should reconsider your instinct to hang your head and rebuff the table while he watches the game, drinks beer, and eats chips with the guacamole you made. I do feel bad for you. He’s an a-hole.
I’m so sorry. That really stinks.
Yeah, this stinks.
Maybe try to come up with something else this weekend that you would enjoy, and ask husband to do it for you /with you. Tell him you really need it.
Even if he wont make it right, maybe you can make it…. better.
Wasting my time is my number one anger trigger. If there’s some task that legitimately takes X hours, then fine. If someone else just lays claim to my time for stupid reasons, or – as in this case – does something that results in my having to fix it at my expense, I just canNOT be chill about that.
That said – maybe after you have gotten this sorted, and you’re both calm, it would be useful to say to your spouse, “When you did X thing, the result was that I had to spend Y time and energy fixing the problem. I was confident based on your prior actions that you would not take responsibility for fixing it yourself, and I was right about that. This dynamic is really frustrating because when you expect me to clean up after your mistakes, I feel really disrespected.” (Or whatever you want to say, obvs.)
Um…you don’t sound grumpy or sad. You sound angry.
I know the difference doesn’t seem like a big deal, but sometimes we stuff anger underneath, where it festers. I’m not encouraging you to explode on your husband or even dump toxin here on us here on the internet, just name what you’re actually feeling.”I’m angry that my husband wrecked my day.” That can make it easier to move past it.
WTF. It’s not “selfless” to fix something you messed up it’s basic decency.
My DH brought up a post-nup a few years ago after watching my parents go through a VERY nasty divorce. They were married for years, and we all thought they had a strong marriage. Turns out, things had been going downhill fast and for a long time, and things ended really, really badly.
I was extremely offended at his suggestion for a post-nup, as we married straight out of college and built our life together. We’ve been married for just over a decade, no kids, and currently make about the same annual income. This was not always the case. When we first married, DH made ~3x my salary. I have closed that gap over the life of our marriage, and depending on his bonus, I might out-earn him this year.
Part of the reason he made 3x my salary when we first married was our choice to move to New State for him to take Awesome Job. The economy tanked, I ended up with no job, and so we moved back to Home State where I had more opportunities. DH transferred to Awesome Job’s location in Home State, took a COL pay cut (actually ended up netting more due to taxes in Home State). We ultimately moved back to New State and I climbed the ladder to our current parity.
We grew up in a conservative, religious region, and thus did the whole name-change, combine finances completely, don’t sign a pre-nup, all-in with this marriage thing. I’m pretty fundamentally opposed to pre-nups unless one party comes with substantial family wealth, or you marry later in life such that you’ve each built a substantial amount of wealth on your own. But when you marry with nothing at 22, no matter who earns more in the early years, it feels disingenuous to request something other than a 50-50 split 7 years into the marriage.
After my extremely angry reaction, DH dropped the topic completely. But, we have enough money now that we really should set up a will. And if we’re going to set up a will in the event of both of our deaths, DH wants to re-open the conversation about a post-nup.
So, I guess my questions are: Is it unreasonable that I am deeply offended by this discussion and basically unwilling to even have the discussion? Should I engage in this discussion with the mindset of getting less than 50% of our combined assets? If I do have the discussion, what is a reasonable split? We have an otherwise strong and happy marriage. Divorce seems highly unlikely, we both have good jobs and marketable skills, and we’re both very physically and emotionally healthy. On one hand, now seems like the time to engage if we are ever going to, since things are good. On the other hand, we already signed a contract on the day we married, and I find it really offensive to suggest that we should re-negotiate that contract now that we’re wealthier.
I can understand why you’re hurt. Any conversation like this makes it seems like he’s thinking about your possible break up which should be inconceivable. Or maybe even if you acknowledge that it’s reasonable to make such a plan, you feel like he should know you would be reasonable. But it seems like this all stems from a situation where both those assumptions were made and turned out to be very, very false.
You don’t say what he wants to put into the prenup. Do you have reason to believe it’s anything less than 50/50? I don’t have a problem with prenups but I view them as a means for you to d vide how you will unwind your relationship when you are feeling loving and kind to each other instead of when you are at the lowest point I your relationship. You signed a contract the day you were married, yes. That’s your prenup now- the laws of your state. The question is do you want to work out your own terms? Maybe give him the benefit of the doubt and ask what he has in mind? (And don’t assume that the default laws of your state would be more favorable!)
+1
I would be just as upset as you are.
But I would also want to know about your parent’s divorce (sorry…. you don’t really have to tell us) … what did he see that he now fears? Like was it a fight for more than a 50/50 split or was alimony fought for? Because I agree with the above poster that I would also then be curious what he wants? Maybe he does just want what you agreed to at the time of your marriage (the laws of the state) and just wants to avoid a fight for anything other than that.
When he originally brought it up, he was proposing ~60%/40% split, based on income and giving me a little extra to recognize that I moved for his career early on. The true numbers at the time would’ve been closer to 70%/30% if it was purely based on income percentages. We’ve probably moved closer to a true 60%-40% split. I feel that 50-50 (as Home State and Current State laws would do it) is fair. Frankly, I wouldn’t bother with alimony, since I’m quite capable of supporting myself and maintaining the lifestyle we have on my own, and I don’t feel that I’ve given up so much to support his career that he “owes” me part of his future income (I would feel differently if I’d taken time out of work to have children or was a trailing spouse because he was in academia/military, etc.). So it’s hard, because I recognize that in his mind, it’s a simple math equation and he even built in a buffer for “sacrifice because that’s what you do sometimes in marriage”. But for me, I wouldn’t have made any sacrifice if we weren’t married, and so “paying” for it later on is really upsetting.
My parents are really not a fair comparison because mom was a SAHM for most of the marriage. Again, both sets of parents are very conservative, and that’s the deal: husband is head of household/makes the money, wife is the helpmate and raises the kids/keeps the home. In the years leading up to their divorce, my dad’s income increased substantially, and so the last few years of their marriage were spent living in much higher standards than the bulk of the marriage. My mom asked for a ton of alimony to keep living at the standard they had recently moved to, in addition to the 50-50 split. She received a lot of money and alimony but still complains that the division of assets and alimony amount are unfair.
So basically, DH saw that whole thing go down, and got concerned that he could end up really screwed if we ever divorced. He knows I’m not my mom, he knows our marriage is not my parents’ marriage, etc., but he thinks this just boils down to a math problem in the event of a divorce. I don’t think marriage is a math problem, it’s two complex humans making really complex life decisions, and in our case, we’ve made those decisions TOGETHER. From the beginning. DH is currently working in a very financially unstable role and giving up quite a bit of salary for the high-risk/high-reward mentality. This is fine, in large part because I make great money and cover our health insurance. This is part of why you get married: you’re partners to help each other out and you know that trading off on chores/sickness vs. health/money, etc. will balance out because you’re both building toward the common good. To suggest that in the event of a terrible thing happening to our relationship, we should suddenly just go by cumulative salaries seems ridiculous to me.
He wanted a split that is based on what you have *up until now* contributed to the marriage, and you’re now evening up that gap? So if in 20 years, he divorces you and the actual contributions to the marriage are you, 60% and him, 40%, he wants the reverse because it reflected like at age 30?
He can go to h3ll.
If it were me, I would put divorce papers in front of him and inform him that those are the only papers I would be signing that give him 60% in the case of a divorce. (Now, in many circumstances, this would be wrong… but you married at 22, made sacrifices for him, and you are now possibly out-earning him.)
Yeah, I am made on behalf of the OP here.
MAD. I am mad. Not made. So mad I am making typos. Ugh.
Thank you for being mad enough to make typos… that was about the level of anger I had when we had this discussion! I can normally come around and be rational, but on this, NOPE. Straight up anger and hurt that we were apparently going to try to boil our marriage down to salaries we had in our later 20s.
“So basically, DH saw that whole thing go down, and got concerned that he could end up really screwed if we ever divorced.”
So, he’s doing this out of self-interest and the interests of the marriage and your partnership come second for him. Nice.
I would not do this or really even engage in discussions about it. I think if he wants to press the issue, the only productive way to do that is in front of a marriage counselor. He’s being ridiculous and selfish, and maybe the counselor can help him with that issue.
I’m the Anon who suggested divorce papers, and I agree.
It’s telling that he thinks that you having the same standard of living after 30+ years of marriage, when one partner sacrificed earnings for the good of the family, is “getting screwed.”
It’s telling that he apparently thinks of his salary as “his money,” and it’s telling that he thinks his early higher earning entitle him to more money in the case of divorce, in perpetuity.
It does not bode well for the future of the marriage, because you can’t build a marriage on a foundation of “what’s mine is mine and sorry you were dumb enough to move for my career.”
You need a third party helping you with this conversation, because you two aren’t going to be talking the same language. He just got slapped with “what could happen” and is reacting as if he’s solving a business problem. You’re reacting to him suddenly treating this relationship that you’ve nurtured for 10 years like a business deal where you’re the suspect partner who is likely to screw him over. If you guys just try to talk “fair” and “percentages,” this background stuff will keep tripping you up. You’ll both dig in your heels. IF you are both, indeed, emotionally healthy, then approach this in an emotionally healthy way. Which means: deal with the background perceptions and emotions that are swirling here. Don’t argue about the surface “facts” about money and job moves.
I was out for the day and just came back to the replies, thanks for the validation and comments! As one commenter noted, I actually called out that if you need to discuss trust/emotional issues about what happened during my parents’ divorce, you go to a marriage counselor. If you want to discuss a business deal, you go to a lawyer. He was definitely trying to address the former with the latter.
I’m generally a shrewd business person (hence, closing the earnings gap!), but I just don’t see marriage as a business deal. To his credit, he completely dropped the subject when I shut down the conversation, and hasn’t mentioned it in years. The estate planning discussion (our siblings are starting to have kids, so we’re thinking about what we want to do for them) has brought it back up again. I think a trip to a marriage counselor and then a trip to an estate planning lawyer is the right order to address it.
F him. Marriage is 50/50. Don’t sign away your rights to that to a jerk who’s trying to change the rules.
I would talk to him about it. First, what does he anticipate being included in your post-up? If it is less than a 50/50 split, what is his justification? Given your relatively similar income and how long you have been married, I would be confused about what he hopes to accomplish. Second, what is he hoping to avoid from your parents’ divorce? Because I hate to break it to him, but couples who are going to have nasty divorces are going to have them regardless of their pre-nup, post-up or the laws of their state. They can always find something to fight about, even if it is possessions with no intrinsic monetary value. If they don’t have children, they will fight over pets. If they don’t have pets, they will fight over household goods.
Gah – I think my reply got eaten, so apologies if it double-posts.
When DH brought it up originally, it was ~60%-40%, with him getting more, and building a buffer on my portion for “sacrifices you make because marriage.” The true numbers based solely on income would’ve been closer to 70%/30%. To him, it’s just a math problem in the event of something awful happening between us, but to me, I wouldn’t have made any sacrifices if we weren’t married. I wouldn’t bother with alimony, as I’m quite capable of maintaining our lifestyle on my own. I think 50-50 is fair, and that’s what Home State and Current State would use for the division.
My parents are not a fair comparison, as my mom was a SAHM for most of the marriage (again, very conservative religious household, so the gender roles were quite clear). In the few years prior to their divorce, my dad’s income increased substantially, so they were living at a much higher standard of living in those last couple of years than for the bulk of the marriage. Thus, my mom asked for and received a lot of money and alimony, but she still complains that the split was unfair and that the alimony payment is not enough.
I think anything other than 50/50 is completely unfair to you and I would never sign anything in your shoes that state otherwise. You were both poor college grads when you married, worked together to build great careers, and even though he out-earned you at the beginning, you guys were a team and a marriage is more than just who brought in the most money. Plus, you never know who is going to earn more in the future – nor is that relevant.
My husband and I signed a pre-nup when we married but only because I had substantial assets in my name already. Our pre-nup basically said whatever we make during the marriage is joint assets, to be split 50/50 in the event of a divorce, and unless one person takes time out of their career to stay home and take care of kids, no one gets alimony. I felt good with that even though I know I’d make prob 80% of our joint HH income (husband doesn’t work in a very lucrative field) but I’m more than fine with that because I recognize a marriage is more than just money. It’s a partnership and it seems like your husband maybe doesn’t realize that.
This isn’t really my area of law but here are my thoughts. I don’t think his proposal is even something enforceable. There needs to be consideration. If you weren’t married and he said I won’t marry you unless you agree to 60/40 then there is some consideration. Here, if he were to say I’ll divorce you unless you agree to this and you say fine, divorce me, you get 50/50. Pre-marriage, you got nothing. So, there is zero benefit to you in signing it.
Post nups come in handy for certain situations. Joining a family business, receiving a large inheritance for example. I know someone who was told she’d be written out of the will without a pre-nup that protected the money in that will, should she receive it, from being split in a divorce. If you wanted to stay home with the kids, you might consider a post nup to protect you. Here, there is no reason for one.
I would never agree to this and would be outraged by the suggestion.
So, step back à sec and think if there is anything you would want nailed down via this process. I did one with my husband to sort out who gets to stay in the house, etc., if things go wonky. So if he cheats and I dump him, he won’t be living in the house I designed.
Thanks for all the comments and validation. I think a trip to a marriage counselor and then an estate planning lawyer is the right order of next steps to address the “marriage is not just salaries” issue and then come up with what we want to do with our assets when we die. And I think holding firm on no post-nup is fair. We don’t need a new contract between the two of us, just a contract for everyone else that lays out what happens when we’re not around to say what we want to happen to our assets.
We will be in London next weekend, so I’m going to attempt to see the wedding parade. I’m familiar with London and getting to Windsor, but would love input from Londoners, or those that have previously lived there, on what time we should try and get there. I know people camp out all night, that’s not me, but I’m willing to get there at 4 am….any thoughts or tips?
What are your fav/most used/life hack-level helpful Amazon purchases? I received the email that prime membership price is increasing, so thought this would be a fun topic and help me justify the expense.
Do you use Prime streaming or Kindle services? If not I really don’t think Prime is worth it. Target offers free two day shipping on $35 (no minimum if you have their Red Card, which is free to get) and has most of what I’d buy on Amazon. On the rare occasion I need something only Amazon has, I’m able to meet the minimum for free shipping and wait a few days for my items.
Thanks for sharing this reminder.
Amazon prices have gone up quite a bit on things I buy there, and I really want to stop using it just out of habit.
We use the streaming for kids shows – much more pleasant than the hassle of finding whatever Daniel Tiger on youtube.
I also find good prices on work clothes (applicable for this website)! I currently have my eye on an E11en Tracy dress that is marked down to ~$30 in the size/color I want.
Unlike the poster above, I find the selection much more likely to meet my needs than Target. I like looking at used books, lots of different brands of something (I find Target will have like, three brands of kids socks, and Amazon will have 3904820398), non-American brands, etc.
OTC medication – amazingly cheaper than the drugstore to get basic medication like aspirin, ibuprofen, etc (so long as you don’t care about a particular brand)
I would be very wary of this – most stuff on Amazon is sold by third parties and those third parties may be small vendors that don’t have the same quality control as name brand drug stores. I’d much rather buy drugs at CVS or Walgreens where it would be on the front page of every newspaper if the medicine harmed someone.
Shock him and go in arguing 60/40 in your favor to compensate you for the long-term hit you took to your earning potential by moving for his job. In a split, you’d have to support yourself on a salary that is lower due to this significant sacrifice that you’d not have made if you were single.
It angers me that in so many cases women, in supporting their partner’s advancement, give up opportunities to advance their own education or career…and then the partner acts as though their high salary is their own doing.
+1 to your last sentence. I hate the “I pulled myself up by the bootstraps, and if you don’t you’re lazy” mentality, when in reality you had enormous help in the form of someone at home taking care of everything else so you could focus solely on your career.
As I try to rise up the business ranks with two kids and a husband who works more than full time as well, I realize what an advantage it truly is. Even just to have someone else keep track of doctors appts and meal plans and vacation packing. I wonder how much of a superstar I could be with a SAH parent to do all that.
Bah. Above was a reply to pre-nup but having difficulty posting on mobile s1te
Amazon musts for me:
-biore sunscreen mentioned above that I can’t get in nearby stores
-Ordering several of things I hate to try on or need awhile to think on so it’s easier to compare (shoes-especially with how they look with an outfit, swimsuits, jeans)
-gluten free treats nearby stores don’t carry
-lot of pet products are way cheaper and have more variety (dog stroller, dog play pen, restraint for the car)
-my electric toothbrush heads so I never have to worry about getting the wrong kind
-gift packages when someone passes/funeral so I know it will hit the recipient quickly
-all holiday shopping for relatives out of state
My husband and I are visiting San Fransisco. Any suggestions for what area of town we should stay in? I’m 6 months pregnant and so this is both our yearly vacation and our last pre-baby trip. We may take a couple days and drive to Big Sur but otherwise we just want to hang out and see the city a little bit.
I am so upset. My son and his girlfriend have been dating since they were 15 and just finished their first week in college. There are so many good things about her and I do like her. But she is very bossy and gets angry to the point of being abusive. His friends have witnesses her flying off the handles as well. I have just learned that she has pushed him or thrown things at him and he told me he just pushes her away. When I told him it is not normal and that they could get arrested, he shut me down. I want to encourage both of them to get counseling but don’t want to be shut out of their relationship by being too instrusive. :(
Butt out.
Would you say the same if my daughter were being pushed around?
Yes because you have seen such a limited snippet of their relationship and friends are not reliable witnesses, especially at that age. If you try and interfere your son will think you’ve gone off the handle and assuming he had moved out just stop talking to you.
Her kid and his friends are legally adults (presuming “first week” in college is actually first year.) Women can be abusers and she’s not wrong about the possibility that her son could be perceived to be in the wrong if things escalate.
OP, you can call a local DV hotline to seek advice *for yourself* in how to support your son – they aren’t just for the person being abused. You can also find a therapist who can help you create a plan to support and protect him.
Yes, I meant year! He is home for the summer and she spends a lot of time at out house. We were at dinner and joking when she got angry about something he said in the joking and she went to smack him but stopped herself. It wasn’t a playful action, it was anger. Thank you anon, that is a good idea to call a hotline. I know these things can escalate and I can see him “taking it” for a long time but everyone is capable of exploding, then she is the one who could get hurt.
Sorry, not sorry. If my friend’s significant others are physically abusing them, I’m not “butting out.”
Yep unfortunately butt out. Continue to be supportive to both of them, and make SURE your son knows that you will support him no matter what. Tell him you’re proud of him and the person he is becoming, and that you are always only a phone call away if he needs help or support or advice.
This kind of relationship can be sticky and hard to get out of, but college can be a great divider in not-great relationships. Encourage him to find his path and use college as a way to find out who he is and what values he stands for. Hopefully you’ve said all this in high school and you’re just repeating it, but it’s not too late. Be his rock and his landing space, and be his quiet advocate. Sounds like he’ll need you.
Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do. Try to have them over as often as possible to make sure he feels supported by you. Abusive relationships take years to end.
If you are very pale and sort of ruddy, is it ok to wear pure white? I feel that I can wear darker shades of cream, pure white sleevless tops (that show more skin for contrast), and nothing in the middle. But maybe I shouldn’t wear pure white at all. What do you think? I have red hair and cool undertones.
My coloring is similar, with hair trending toward auburn. Pure white is horrid on me–somehow it both washes me out and brings out the red in my complexion. Pearly cream is passable, especially in prints (i.e., black and cream stripes or the like). For my wedding dress, I went with antique gold organza.
Of course it’s okay to wear whatever you want! :-)