Weekend Open Thread

269 Comments

1. Moving from a 1500 sq ft/two floor house (90% carpeted) to a 2500 sq ft ranch (75% carpeted). We have one cat, a toddler, and two newborns. We vacuum our current place about once a week on the first floor, a couple times a month on the second floor. Do I want a Roomba?

   1. We like our Roomba, but it’s not a magic bullet. It sometimes blows cat hair around instead of sucking it up, which is really annoying — but not always. I also lost a couple of fragile items, like a decorative plate, when the Roomba ran into stuff and knocked things over, but I didn’t have them secured well. The little device that you set up to be a boundary — like when you don’t want the Roomba to cross a threshold into another room — isn’t 100%, either. And when you send it back to the dock, it doesn’t always make it there. (Bear in mind this Roomba is at least five years old — maybe they’ve improved?) With kids, though, you will love to just “set it and forget it,” even just turning it on and leaving the house. The “spot” function is great — you pick a spot and it goes around and around until the area is clean.

      1. Does it constantly need to be cleaned of cat hair caught in the brushes too? We had that problem with ours, but it was 6 years ago.

         1. Wellll, my husband actually gets that duty (partly because I don’t know how to open the Roomba and have been too lazy to find out), but I think that does happen, yes.

         2. Yes. We got ours about a year ago, and my husband takes great pleasure in removing cat, dog and my hair from it with the little tool. He does it about every 8-10 uses (but it does our whole 1200 sqf house.

   2. I love my Roomba and have had no issues, but I’m also in a 550 square foot apartment with no carpet or pets. I will say though, ripping (my) hair out of the brushes is the absolute worst.

   3. I’m obsessed with my Roomba for cat hair so I say yes.

   4. I can’t get over that hilariously gross amazon review describing the roomba that flung dog poop all over the house. I don’t have a dog and my cats have never pooped anywhere but the litter box, but they do barf on occasion and if a roomba means I’m going to one day be cleaning cat barf off the walls….. no thank you.

2. I hope this doesn’t get totally derailed by politics, but this morning’s IVF question got me thinking– as a pro-life woman who thinks pro-life women are morally obligated to put their money where their mouth is, I’ve been considering how to add to our family via adoption or foster care since the birth of our twins. One thing I haven’t considered is adopting unused embryos. I thought it would be an option reserved for people who couldn’t make embryos of their own, but do women who can otherwise get pregnant do this? I’m curious what the cost would be versus the traditional adoption route– obviously it is IVF but it removes all the egg-stimulating drugs and retrieval sessions from the equation in theory? I’m not sure who to ask about this– our local fertility clinic? We did see them when we were having trouble conceiving, but we lucked out and the Clomid alone worked for us, so we got to avoid the IVF route.

   1. Gently, that seems a little too “I’m making a statement.” There are real, living, breathing children out there who need homes and you want to adopt an embryo? Please, there are so many children who need homes – adopt one of them and change their life, rather than jump through who knows how many legal and ethical hurdles to adopt an embryo.

      1. +1,000,000

      2. Embryos are human beings. You were one once.

         Adopting an infant is difficult and expensive. Adopting an older child has legal challenges. There are literally dozens of adults on adoption waiting lists for every newborn up for adoption. This is why people go overseas.

         Gently, mind your own forking business.

         1. LOL, no, embryos are not human beings. They’re little clusters of cells. Not alive. Not children.

            1. This was kind of what I was trying to avoid… I don’t care whether people think they’re people. I’m just trying to practically determine where the unused ones go.

            2. Read an embryology textbook. Embryos are humans in the earliest stages of life. If that is inconvenient for your ideology, either become pro-life or find a scientifically sound way of being pro-choice.

         2. Embryos are not human beings. They can become human beings but that is not the same thing at all.

            1. This. Is a tomato seed a tomato? Is a caterpillar a butterfly? Of course not. Words have meanings. Embryos are not human beings, regardless of your stance on ab*rtion.

            2. So embryos are seeds that metamorphosize into human beings? I am not pro-life, but I am okay with admitting that embryos are both human and alive.

            3. Exactly. If there is a burning building, with 1 room containing 1,000 embryos and 1 room containing 5 children, do we rush in to save the embryos or the children? Of course born children are more important than embryos.

         3. So, that was unnecessary…. She gave a very relevant answer.

            But your insurance with certainly not pay for you to “adopt”, store, implant an embryo, particularly if you are not infertile. And since these often fail and don’t implant you will need to adopt multiple embryos, and possibly pay out of pocket for multiple delievery sessions. And none of this is cheap. So I would be very surprised if it was cheaper than adoption.

            1. I’m definitely not expecting insurance to pay for it; we already checked into it when we thought we might need to use IVF for our bio kids. I just don’t think the fertility clinic broke down the “IVF costs 12K per cycle” speech they gave us into “X amount is drugs/retrieval” and “X amount is implantation” during that initial appointment, and then I got pregnant on the Clomid alone so we didn’t go back. I’ll probably just contact the fertility clinic we would have used and see if they think it’s as weird as everyone else and if they’d have a cost estimate– I hadn’t considered extra storage fees.

            2. I would actually suspect it may cost you close to that amount at least because you are paying a “bundled” rate when they quote you the 12K cost. Just be prepared that when you do anything piecemeal, that is different than their norm, and with an unclear end point, there will be an upcharge.

               And you never transfer just one embryo, because the implantation rate is so low. And when you are buying embryos, there will be less of a bundled discount. And you may not get the freshest embryos…. so their success rate will be lower.

         4. To Not OP- Oh good grief. She was polite in her response. She did not argue that adoption of born children is easy. At the worst, she challenged, extremely gently, the notion that it is some how equally or more ethical to adopt an embryo than a sentient child who will develop into an adult.

            And if you’re pro life, which I assume you are by your responses, I assume you’re stuffing your uterus full of embryos? I assume you’d sooner save a petri dish full of embryos than one child from a burning building? I mean…. that would be consistent with your ideology. Why save one baby when you can save 5, amirite?

      3. Trust me, we are considering fostering/adoption– but those are also complex and expensive, and as mentioned, I’m already of the opinion that embryos are potential people. I guess I’m just curious as to what people with extras, but who do not want more children, wind up doing– I hear of people “donating” the extras but I always assumed that meant to medical research, so I wasn’t sure if that was an adoption route. Also, frankly, cost is a factor– our family isn’t particularly wealthy, and paying 1/3 of IVF costs might cost less money than paying for an adoption attorney, depending on whether we pursue fostering first or not. I imagine we are most likely to adopt permanently within the next few years and become temporary foster parents in our later years, closer to retirement; I’m not sure we can emotionally handle fostering-to-adopt and then losing the child.

         1. I’m almost sure I’ve heard of non-infertile couples (usually Christian) adopting embryos. My sister-in-law, who is Catholic, has remaining embryos from the IVF she and her husband did and feels uncomfortable just “getting rid” of them, so I’m sure there are couples looking for the same thing on the other side. Honestly, I’m pro-choice and don’t think that embroys or fetuses are people and I still would feel a little weird about disposing of them.

         2. They donate to research, to women who are actually infertile (rarely), or they throw them away.

            1. I think this is up to the parents. Some parents are ok with their frozen embryos being used for research or being donated. Others aren’t. I am not sure I’d be comfortable with donating an embryo that could develop into a child who was genetically mine to someone else to gestate.

         3. “Embryo adoption” is becoming a more and more common process for infertile couples who can’t produce their own embryos for various reasons, or who have religious views preventing them from going through the egg retrieval/IVF part of IVF. I think there are waiting lists for those embryos that have been donated for adoption (not entirely sure). So, to answer your question, the ones that are donated for this purpose get adopted by infertile people; you would not be able to adopt ones where the parents did not choose that option.

   2. I’m not suggesting the OP isn’t serious, but this is the weirdest thing I have ever heard of.

      1. +1. Adopt/foster a real live child who needs a home and love, if you feel compelled to do so (as you say “put your money where your mouth is”), or have another child with your own embryos the “traditional” way. This is the oddest thing I have ever heard of.

         1. People who have never actually tried to adopt or foster a child tend to default to this answer. Adoption is incredibly difficult and expensive, and since courts favor biological relatives in almost all situations, it’s common to have an adoption be reversed or not go forward because either the parents change their mind, or *some* biological relative chooses to take the child in. Things like the Indian Child Welfare Act also complicate the situation, as children with even minor blood ties to a tribe can be “claimed” by that tribe and placed with a tribal foster family, and there’s nothing the courts can or will do about it.

            Fostering is even less secure than straight-up adoption since the goal of social workers is always to reunite children with their biological families, no matter how f-ed up those families are.

            Add into this that the “waiting children” people reference are almost always older children who have been irrevocably scarred from years of abuse and neglect and will need intensive therapy, education services, etc. There are not rooms full of abandoned babies out there just waiting for people to take them home. There are foster homes full of post-toddlerhood children who have been abused and neglected to the point that they are most likely incapable of attaching to another human being in an emotionally healthy way. A coworker of mine and his husband adopted a sibling group of four – the youngest was 3 and the oldest was 6, and now they are teenagers and he is being put through the wringer with very serious problems (violence, substance abuse, running away from home, getting expelled from school, etc.) resulting from the abuse the kids suffered in their early lives. And they were taken away from their parents comparatively early, relative to how soon most children get taken. It is a total crapshoot.

            So please, for all the commenters who snottily talk about adopting or fostering but would never actually do it themselves – unless you have been there, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Embryo adoption is a great option because you get a chance to influence the child’s development from early pregnancy on. A child’s brain is almost totally formed by the time they are 3; being there to shape and influence those early years is critical. Having a child that hasn’t experienced terrible trauma before age 5 definitely makes things easier. It’s not wrong for someone to want that.

            1. Um, so older children are too scarred and abused to be worth being raised in a loving home? Sounds like children are only good enough if they’re a pretty little addition to the family prestige. JFC, heaven forfend a group of frozen cells get discarded, let’s just discard actual children because they need more help than some. And yes, I have a lifetime of experience with special needs kids and adults, so spare me your sanctimonious ‘you don’t understand how haaaaaaard it is’ BS.

            2. “And yes, I have a lifetime of experience with special needs kids and adults”
               Have you adopted any? When you do – or should I say “if,” and I know it is a really big if that will most likely never happen – you can come back and talk about it. Working with special-needs kids is totally different than raising them, having them live with you, and being legally responsible for them. I haven’t met too many of YOU sanctimonious, “people should always adopt!” folks who have been willing to take it on when it’s your life, your freedom, your time, and your money at stake.

            3. “Id like to make a sanctimonious pro-life stance without helping the living breathing children who need help, because that’s hard.” Got it.

            4. Clearly you don’t know what the word lifetime means. Yes it’s hard, but what’s the alternative? Seriously, what do you want these kids to do? They don’t onveniently disappear, and there is no magical orphanage to take care of them. Why are you fighting so hard against helping them that you need to rail on and on against them, citing your opinion as fact that they are unsalvageable in a discussion about adoption?

            5. She already has kids, and she’s considered fostering or adopting once her own kids are older. My parents helped care for neighborhood kids from troubled families and the children of relatives in bad situations, and I think they were good people for doing this. But I believe it would not have been fair to us if they had gone out of their way to bring in a troubled older child with disproportionate needs who was also a complete stranger to live with us as part of our family when we were young children. The OP’s plan sounds better for everyone to me.

      2. Is it really? I mean, surrogacy doesn’t seem weird to me. We’d just be doing that and keeping the baby.

         1. Well, surrogates are either paid or are doing it to help someone they love very much have a baby. So I guess I understand the motivation for being a surrogate a lot more than I understand your motivation for doing this.

            1. Surrogacy is exploitative. Look into how Indian women are abused and forced into it because of poverty and consider how much control any surrogate (paid or unpaid) must give up over her own life and how she must give up a baby she gestated herself (even though it contains some of her DNA). Taking an unused embryo is a lot less repulsive from an ethical standpoint.

         2. I am going to try to leave politics out of it and take at face value the fact that you want to both do a good deed and expand your family. Even if you think of embryos as “potential lives” I think you have to acknowledge that actual lives should take precedent? Those embryos are just fine sitting where they are. If you want to give birth and go that route, I think that’s perfectly reasonable. But if you are choosing between good deeds, I don’t think it can even be compared. So I guess do what’s right for your family, but I’m not sure you should frame it as some kind of a moral choice.

            PS: Overseas adoptions are not less moral or valid than adopting kids in the US. Those kids may be in even more dire situations.

            1. I think the idea is that they don’t always “sit where they are”– I could take some that would otherwise be destroyed. I can’t imagine anyone is paying storage fees in perpetuity? It looks from my brief google searches like there are avenues for people to donate their unused embryos to infertile couples, so I guess the question is whether anyone donates them to couples who may not need them to get pregnant. And it does seem less common than egg or sperm donation, which makes sense.

            2. No. That’s not a thing people do.

            3. The embryos being destroyed are not available to you. The people whose genetic material that is know perfectly well that they could donate that material to someone else and they have chosen not to. That is their choice.

               Like seriously please take a step back. This isn’t “oh you’re just throwing it away anyway let me have it.” People have a right to choose to not have biological children out there that they don’t even know about.

            4. Most overseas adoptions have been shut down due to concerns about child trafficking. Ethiopia banned international adoption in 2018. China no longer adopts their unwanted children out of country unless they are severe special-needs and usually over 5. International adoptions take years and so children don’t usually get to the U.S. before they are 3. Please divorce yourself from the idea that there are tons of needy children out there just waiting for good homes. The situation is far, far more complicated than that.

         3. You’d be keeping someone else’s baby. I don’t think you’re going to find availability for this. I’d much rather, and did, have my embryos destroyed than raised by some pro life nut.

            1. It’s fully possibly to be pro-life without being a “pro-life nut,” thanks. I vote democratic and I think the best way to avoid abortions is 1) great sex education that prevents unwanted pregnancies and 2) rampant access to Plan B. You can be pro-life and still be a total liberal. I didn’t say I think abortion should be illegal, I said I think embryos are people and by holding that position I think I have a moral obligation to take in a child (or possibly an embryo) that not otherwise have good care.

            2. No one wants you to raise their embryo. This is not a thing. It’s nutty that you want to.

            3. The donation is voluntary. Some couples would be happy knowing that their unused embryos are not being thrown out like trash. Some couples find the idea of unused embryos to be morally problematic but desperately want their own children (hence IVF), so this presents a nice solution.

            4. At OP at 3:12: Thank you for your explanation of being pro life and liberal. I really appreciated hearing it put that way. We do not agree, but I am so glad to learn other perspectives. It helps me not just lump everyone into a box. I can follow your logic: if you believe embryos are people, then it makes sense you want them to live. Seriously, thank you.

            5. If you call yourself pro-life, that means you think abortion should be illegal. If you think abortion is a tragedy that should be avoided, and you support efforts to reduce it, but ultimately it should be legal, that is a pro-choice viewpoint. Words mean things.

            6. If you don’t believe abortion should be illegal then you’re pro choice. Plenty of pro choice people believe abortion is morally reprehensible, but that the law cannot and should not dictate a woman’s CHOICE about her own body. Pro life people think women should be legally precluded from CHOOSING abortion. That’s like the whole debate.

            7. Pro-life views are enormously varied and encompass way more than abortion rights– I’m Catholic so euthanasia and death penalty fall under the banner. But my religious beliefs and political beliefs inform each other but are not one. Nothing in any of my statements denigrates anyone else’s life choices, which is more than I can say for some of these responses. That said, I am an adult woman and I label myself what I want. I’m pro-life.

            8. I’d also like to thank you for outlining your views in a reasonable way. I’m pro choice but i would never personally have an abortion. I don’t personally think a cluster of cells that is unviable outside the uterus is a life but I wouldn’t be able to destroy the potential for life in my own body, if that makes sense. My views are more pragmatic – women are going to have abortions anyway. Let’s make abortion safe and RARE and assume other women know what they’re doing with their own healthcare.

            9. If you believe abortion shoulb be legal you are pro choice. Idiot.

            10. To anonymous at 5:18 thanks for moving the conversation along in a dignified way. You were fine until you got to “idiot.” I am going to assume you were taking about yourself there.

            11. I have friends who were taught in Catholic school that a preference for life means you’re pro-life, but it’s not true. I think it’s a way of getting people to say that they’re pro-life when they’re actually not.

            12. I disagree. I think the problem is that the anti-choice movement has adopted the euphemistic label “pro-life,” when in fact they are just anti-choice. If we are reading the plain meaning of words, one can certainly be both for life and for choice. The OP’s position here is a consistent one, supporting policies that encourage preservation of life across the board while also supporting the rights of women to make their own decisions, which is, in my experience quite rare.
                This is not a comment on the embryo adoption issue, as I’ve decided I can’t comment in a non-hostile way on that issue.

   3. I agree with Anonymous at 2:11 that this comes off a little tone deaf. I am a foster (soon to be adoptive) mom. There are a ton of already born children, including infants, who really need good parents like you. Adopting through the system takes forever but it is free, except for legal fees, which in our state are about 5% of the cost of IVF. Most people can get that $ back as a tax credit. If you’re really set on adopting an embryo, I’d start by calling an IVF clinic to inquire about the process. Also try to find a support group. My foster moms group has been invaluable, and I can’t imagine navigating adopting an embryo without knowing someone who had done it before.

      1. Like I said, I’m not “set” on adopting an embryo, I’d just never considered it until people mentioned unused ones this morning. I’m well aware of children needing fostering or adoption that already exist, but even in the foster-to-adopt program in our state, they warn you ahead of time that only 25% of those children’s parents’ parental rights are terminated. We already lost one child and I don’t think my husband can emotionally withstand fostering one for a few years and then returning it to the parents. So I’d thought our only options were to explicitly temporarily foster without the expectation of adoption or pursue permanent adoption through an agency, which is pricey. So taking an embryo that otherwise might be destroyed might be right for us.

         1. Please do more research on adoption! You can tell your social worker that you’re only interested in children whose parental rights have been legally terminated. I’m the anon at 2:11 and we have seriously looked into adopting. We’ll continue to try on our own for now, but adoption is absolutely something we will do in the future, regardless of whether we have our own or not. My husband comes from a family that’s a wonderful mix of biological and adopted children on every branch – no one cares which children are biological and which are adopted – they’re all just family. Adoption through the state can be very affordable and some states contribute toward expenses if you adopt certain children. Go look at all the children on adoptuskids .org (remove space). They are sweet children who want a home and someone to cheer on their basketball game and play play-doh with them… The info pages on adoptuskids can explain a lot of the red tape.

            1. That’s really nice about your husband’s family. I doubt my extended family would be very accepting of adopted kids, given the kinds of things they say about the adopted members of our family now (who are 50+ and were adopted during the “Baby Scoop” era).

               The foster/foster-to-adopt/adoption situation varies widely by region and the ages of the children.

            2. 100% this. Plus, many local organizations can hook you up with families who did adoptions through their state of children whose parental rights previously were terminated and who can help you understand the reality of the adoption process (not just the sensational ones that show up in the media).

               One point though — termination of parental rights in my area generally takes two to three years, so you may have to be prepared for an older child situation to go this route. If your preferred situation is an infant adoption, then domestic private adoption – generally through an agency – may be your best and most cost effective option, particularly if foster-to-adopt does not appeal to you, but realize that infant adoption has its own risks of disruption.

         2. I totally get where you’re coming from. There’s a level of risk involved with fostering to adopt and I think it’s very mature of you to acknowledge up front that maybe you do not want to accept that level of risk. We were very careful to the point of actually saying we could not take some siblings because it was clear they’d be back with their mom in a few days (and so much the better for them – kids need their parents!) Anyway – I pursued IVF for a while but ultimately decided against it – I totally do not judge anyone else who builds their family this way. I am pretty sure there is a web site dedicated to matching unused embryos with women who want to have kids but I can’t find it. Still, I’d call an IVF clinic if you’re not already in touch with one – my fertility doc gave me some scenarios for our potential unused embryos so I think they can answer your questions. I’d love to talk to you more about fostering if you want, but no pressure – canigiveyousomeadvice at the mail of g dot com is my burner email. Hugs and I wish you the best – I know it’s not an easy road.

            1. I’m a foster parent and I would say that based on your self-evaluation, you should not foster. Fostering by definition requires that you be supportive that kids be reunified with their biological families. If it’s not possible, then the second best option is usually to send them to relatives (or ‘relatives’). As a foster to adopt parent, I accept and acknowlege adoption by non-relatives is the third best option.

               More people should be foster parents, 100%. Please don’t try and sell fostering as a ‘cheap and easy’ adoption route.

               (I’ll also note that I was pro-choice to begin with, but fostering has made me absolutely more supportive of choice.)

         3. OP, I think the reason you are getting push back is because you are framing this in moral terms. I understand that you may sincerely feel that but it doesn’t sound like this is an issue that you can do anything about. People aren’t just leaving their embryos behind to either be destroyed or “adopted,” depending on whether a good soul comes along. Also on the scale of pressing need, it seems pretty far below actual kids who need homes.

            1. I’m not considering this option based on the ranking of the pressing needs of the world– I’m looking into the best option for our specific family at this specific time. We a) want more children and b) want those children not to be bio-children, of which we already have two, because as pro-lifers we think that’s important. I’m not looking for the child in the worst situation in the entire world so I can be a smug turd about being Catholic. I’m looking at the concrete options we might have to meet the needs and wants of our own family. I’m not passing ANY judgment on people who donate them to science. I don’t think someone who wants to destroy their own extra embryos should be forced to give them to me instead. But it looks like based on the research some other people did below that there are other Christians who want their embryos to be born, so I’ll check that out as one of the options. I’m not imposing my morality on others, I’m asking about the best way to meet my own moral standards. HONESTLY.

            2. But your focus on having a non-bio child, without actually helping a child who needs a home, IS about you being a smug catholic (I won’t say turd, that’s your word). You’ve invented a faux need on behalf of these embryos (and the folks whose genetics are contained therein) so that you can show the world you’re pro-life in the most convenient way possible. You already told us that you can’t hack it as a foster/ prospective adoptive parent but nonetheless want to signal your pro-life stance by solving a problem that doesn’t exist.

   4. You’re not “pro life” if you think a clump of cells is more important than a living, breathing, feeling human being. Agree with the comments that there are so many existing babies and children who need good homes and it seems incredibly weird to care more about the life of an embryo.

      1. Again, I don’t care MORE about the life of an embryo– I spelled out pretty clearly above why foster-to-adopt, the cheapest monetary option, might not be the right choice for our specific family at this specific time.

         1. Don’t take it personally OP. Some folks LIVE for this battle (on both sides). You have clearly and accurately stated your position. Although perhaps not agreed with by others, it should nonetheless be respected as a valid set of beliefs.

            1. It’s not valid. It’s bizarre virtue signaling that she’s incredibly transparent about.

               There aren’t always two sides. Brutal dictatorships are not equal to democratic republics. Murdering neo-nazis are not the same as anti-nazi protesters. Good is not equal to evil. And right is not the same as wrong. I’m so sick of this moral equivalence.

            2. Even if you think an embryo is a tomato seed, it’s not “evil” to take an unwanted tomato seed and, with the full approval of whoever the tomato seed belongs to, grow it into a plant/child, while voting pro-choice. Do you want political allies who don’t see eye-to-eye with you 100% philosophically or not?

            3. To clarify, I was triggered by the “both sides” comment and referencing the way the term had been used in a specific political sense. Upon reflection it’s clear the commenter above me wasn’t using it quite that way and I apologize.

               I don’t think the ops specific motivations are evil and I’m glad she votes pro choice. However I’m incredibly troubled by what I see has her desperation to signal that she’s pro- life and a good Catholic, without helping a living child. (I’m also confused as to how she’s pro plan b but thinks embryos are people.)

               I do, however, believe the “pro life” movement is absolutely evil and aims to punish and kill women for their sexuality and the sexuality of others.

   5. Yea, if I ever do IVF I am going to make sure that my unused embryos can’t be “adopted” by someone else. That’s horrifying.

      1. It’s so weird.

         1. I have pro-life friends who had lots of eggs who would love to have one of them adopted. It’s not weird. It may not be how you think, but it is not weird.

            1. You have friends, who were morally ok with creating fertilized embryos, and keeping them, quite possibly never to become children/people, but who are never the less pro life? Meaning they’d advocate that a woman should bear pregnancy and childbirth, against her will, because otherwise the fertilized embryo within her would not become a child and that would be murder? I am really really struggling with this.

   6. I have several friends that have donated their extra embryos to science. Honestly, they would have not been comfortable selling their embryos, or donating them for “adoption” to strangers.

      To each her own…

   7. I think you’ll struggle to find a clinic that will do this. I know when I donated my unused embryos it was specifically to someone infertile not someone who thinks she knows better than me what should happen to them.

      1. What on earth makes you think I think I “know better than you what should happen to them”? Obviously people donating them to infertile couples want them to be born instead of destroyed or donated to science? I just hadn’t considered whether more were donated than are wanted by infertile couples– I know a lot of people pursue IVF instead of adoption because they specifically want biological children, so I imagine egg donation/sperm donation, rather than embryo donation, is more common than people needing entire embryos. If there aren’t any “extras” then yes, I’d much rather an infertile couple take them than my family. But I have no idea what the ratios are. I’ll just contact the fertility clinic about it. I’m not making a moral judgment on people who wind up with extra embryos after IVF, we were going to run that risk ourselves if we needed IVF to get pregnant the first time.

         1. Pls don’t tell people about this is real life. You’re incredibly tone deaf.

         2. Don’t take it personally. This s*te is horrifyingly anti-life, or anti-pro-lifer, or whatever. They gang up on, demean, harass, and chase off pro life women and then trumpet how “educated, professional” women are all for choice.

            1. A position I’m glad to take versus your side’s ganging up on, demeaning, harassing, and chasing women outside of abortion clinics.

            2. Yeah, most educated women are actually not in favor of having their reproductive rights controlled by the state. Funny how that works out!

            3. Gang up? You people go to SCOTUS to protect your right to surround and harass women outside of doctor’s offices. And you call it “side walk counseling.” You have no right to complain that you’re being chased off and demeaned.

            4. The term “anti-life” is bullshit, pure and simple. If you are so pro-life, then go stop executions, protest cuts to Medicaid and SNAP benefits, and demonstrate for a living wage. If abortion is your only “pro-life” issue, then your problem is with women’s bodily autonomy.

               The two sides are pro-choice and anti-abortion.

            5. Oh please. Completely disagreeing with anti-abortioners and pointing out Republican hypocrisy about being anti-choice, pro-birth but anti-children, women and pro-guns is not nearly as damaging to you, who can still do what you want, as it is to to the people whose lives you’ve destroyed with your laws restricting their access to healthcare, child care and safe communities.

            6. I just think anti-abortion is too generous for these people. If they wanted less abortion they’d give out birth control like candy and work to eliminate sexual assault/incest. They don’t. They want abortion criminalized, not eliminated. They should be called pro criminalization.

   8. So, I’m not a fan of this for two reasons – we don’t see eye to eye on the issue of whether embryos are people, and I think adopting a person or an embryo to “do a good deed” is ethically problematic – there is a lot of literature on this under the general adoption heading. OP, I strongly encourage you to read about this as part of your research.

      But to answer OP’s actual, valid-even-if-I-disagree-with-the-premise question, the website Hellobee had a blogger who went through the embryo adoption process (because of a genetic issue with one half of the couple, I believe), and did a long series of posts about it. I’m sure from there you will find other resources online as well.

   9. I’m interested in the answer to this. My concern would be about supply/demand. Like, if there aren’t a lot of available embryos then are you taking away someone else’s opportunity to become a parent? I had a friend… probably 10 years ago… she and her husband couldn’t make viable embryos and they were on a waiting list for over a year before they were able to find one option leftover from someone else’s IVF.

      And just to cut off something that seems to be underlying this question – embryos that are getting destroyed or whatever aren’t available to you. That’s someone else’s genetic material and they get to decide what happens to it. If they want it destroyed, it gets destroyed. That is their choice. They get to choose to not have a stranger bear a child that is genetically theirs.

   10. Lutheran Family Services has an embryo adoption program. Here’s their FAQ page which I think answers most of your questions. http://lfsiowa.org/adoption-services/embryo-adoptions/embryoadoption-faq/

       I would not have known this existed, but I have a friend who works for LFS.

       1. Thanks! This is basically what I was looking for. I have no interest in limiting an infertile couple’s access to a donated embryo OR limiting someone else’s decision to have them destroyed instead of donated– I’m not trying to steal someone’s freaking embryo that they wanted destroyed but I want to save. I just didn’t know, as I said earlier, if there is a surplus of donated embryos that already exist. It sounds like there might not be, but I can at least stick it on the list of options.

       2. I know of someone who did this. The family wanted to adopt, but she really wanted to go through the pregnancy part of life. I get that. They adopted an embryo and it took and they have a baby now.

          If I had unused embryos I might consider donate b/c my current kids are great and it’s weird having ones sitting on the shelf that didn’t get a chance to go forward. I’d have liked to give them a chance and I felt very sad for the ones that didn’t make it or didn’t take.

       3. Check out embryoadoption dot org. Looks like another resource for this.

          An internet stranger out there supports you!

   11. So the Lutheran website posted answered a lot of my questions, thanks to that poster– for anyone who doesn’t want to look it up themselves, it’s about the cost of regular IVF ($13K-16K, we were quoted $12-13K in my city for one round of IVF) and there are in fact families who want to a) donate leftover embryos with the intent of someone birthing them and b) choose the families themselves. We already have kids so would be lower priority, which is how it should be. So now I have the judgment of many internet strangers AND more info, which is basically what I was expecting from the internet! If we wind up going that route I’ll update in the future.

       1. Seriously, did you think you could ask a question like this and not get people justifiably judging you for it? Now you get to play the victim, too, so I guess it’s a win-win for you.

          1. Um she said it was what she expected. And then you question how she could not have expected it. You need to 1. grow up and 2. learn to read better and 3. learn to talk to people with whom you disagree.

          2. I’m not a victim, I know why this is a hot topic. My point was I was just looking for info as to whether this was an option for our family– turns out it is, and I got a website to go to, which was my whole intent in asking the question. As I stated many times above, I’m not interested in judging other families for what they do or don’t do with their embryos. I was just wondering if there are people who want their unused ones to be born. There are. I’m not imposing my moral standards on anyone else, I’m just seeing if I can hold myself to them, and it turns out I can! So check that out, it IS a win-win for me.

       2. Putting aside all other questions and the political viewpoints, if you do want to do this, I’d just be very, very careful to make sure you’ve got appropriate documentation from the couple donating the embryo that they’re consenting to it, because I’ve got to imagine there are all sorts of potential legal minefields on this.

   12. If you want a baby and want to adopt an embryo, go for it. But if this is about being pro-life and meaning it, then please consider fostering a teenager. I have a son and an adult mentally ill family member but if I had no one to take care of, that is what I would do. To show I was pro-life.

       1. As I said above, I think when we’re older and our bio kids are older, we will wind up being purposefully temporary foster parents to older children. The recommendation we got from the social worker we spoke to was not to foster kids older than our bio kids, who are only two, so that isn’t a good option for us right now, especially since I work. But it’s on the agenda. Again, I’m not trying to save the whole freaking world here or make THE GRANDEST OF POINTS. Just looking at options to expand our family in the way that works best for our family and our values.

          1. What was the rationale for not fostering kids older than yours?

             1. Not the OP, but I have heard this before from both friends who’ve pursued adoption and social workers. I’m not entirely sure on the rationale, though I believe that it’s generally supposed to be easier on the adopted child to not be the oldest in the family. I think it’s different if your first child is adopted and then you have biological, but if you already have kids, it’s harder to bring in an older non-bio child.

             2. I’m not entirely sure of the rationale either, but from a gut perspective, I think it would be better for the foster kid to not also be a parenting guinea pig.

             3. I already looked into this when The Hubs and I first looked at older child adoption.

                From a child development perspective, having all of the children in the house be older (and often preferably at least three to four years older) than an older (i.e. non-infant) one joining the family in the house sets up a situation where the older kids are exemplars for a child who may never have had a family unit or structure to model from. The child joining the family then has both adults modeling adult behavior and children modeling child behavior in the family. This supposedly provides more support and enhances familial integration. It’s the same reason that child spacing can be important in any family.

             4. Most agencies won’t allow you to foster children older than your own bio children in the home. I speak from experience.

             5. I’m not sure if we’re dancing around this idea, but statistically there are also some safety considerations for the younger children if the foster child is older, stronger, and coming with dangerous coping mechanisms, survival skills, or behavioral models. Obviously there are also risks to the foster child if the foster child is younger than children in the family who may also pose a threat, and we have statistics on that as well, but the potential foster parent already knows her own family.

          2. I think the above is what the social worker was getting at– we have experience parenting two-year-olds, but no experience parenting ten-year-olds. I don’t think we’re banned or anything, it’s just not optimal. And this was a casual conversation FWIW, not us being evaluated officially.

   13. As an adoptive parent, I’d like to push back on any type of adoption as a ‘good deed’ or helping unwanted children, as – in my experience – these type of adoptive parents tend to be the worst. You should adopt because you want a child – which is exactly why we adopted. Otherwise you’re setting up a child as a political statement or worse, an individual who is expected to feel thankful or lucky that his adoptive parents chose to save him (or her).

       As an aside, please don’t adopt a child of another race unless you’re going to be able to expose them to that community their entire childhood (i.e., white families in white communities “saving poor black orphans”).

       1. As an adoptive parent of kids of a different race, yes to both of these. So correct on the race issue. I am Middle Eastern, my husband is East Asian, and we adopted two older brothers are are African American. This is hard, but the area we live is very, very diverse and about a quarter black. The boys are older now, and are able to be involved in groups at school or organizations for black kids and youth. It is really beneficial – they tend to grapple with their identity, and this helps. It is not easy being a young black man in America even in our liberal diverse coastal city and having that support structure is crucial.

3. Anyone have advice for a soon-to-be MBA spouse? My husband, an engineer, is doing an EMBA locally, starting next month, for 18 months. It’s every other Friday and Saturday all day, and since we have a son, I’m going to be bearing the burden of kid stuff even more than usual, with him gone every other Saturday and apparently doing around 20 hours of homework (or whatever you call it for an MBA!) every week. He is assuming he can do some at work but I am thinking not? I’m not happy with his decision, and he knows this, but it’s done. Advice from those who’ve been there, either moms or non-moms? I’m hoping I can get to know some of the spouses/SOs/families of the other students. There is an orientation dinner for everyone in a couple of weeks. I am kind of bitter about this whole thing already but will try to control that… If it matters, I work from home.

   1. You’re kidding, right? Your husband is advancing his career and will be able to better provide for his family and you’re mad? The correct answer is, “I’m proud of you, hon. It’ll be a difficult few months, but we’ll get through it. I might need your help with Tyke more on Sundays than usual because I’ll be with him on Saturday, but we’ll play it by ear.” It’s 18 months – it’ll be over in a snap. And if his job is anything like mine, there’s a fair amount of downtime (see, this post).

      1. OK, just for more context about my feelings, justified or not: Our son has special needs and I already deal with a lot more of everything that goes along with that — doctors, services, school stuff, research, etc. It is very stressful. My husband already is not home for dinner almost every night of the week, I am also in charge of bedtime every night, already. I work part time, freelance, because of our son’s special needs. I really enjoy my work but it limits my career options and goals. Otherwise, I would likely have a full time career and would have tons more choices of what to do. It just feels like another sacrifice I am making for my husband’s career, when he could potentially delay his degree and the value of the degree to his career is debatable. (Please don’t say that I chose to have kids and therefore I can’t complain about parent responsibilities.) He also frequently complains about money issues but then he decides to get a loan for thousands (with some help from his employer).

         1. It sounds more like you’re more resentful that he’s doing this while you sacrificed your career for your kid. I’m sure you guys talked about him doing an MBA before he applied, right? You need to tell him how you feel about all of this, because it sounds like its not just a childcare issue to me.

            1. Well, we’ve talked about the overarching issue more than once (and we did talk about the MBA) — e.g. he’s implied before that he would rather I have a full-time job and make more money to contribute to our budget, and I explain that I’m not CHOOSING to make less money than I could and work fewer hours than I could for MY benefit (I’d love to make more money and have sick time, vacation time, etc.), but I’m sacrificing for our son and to make sure that he gets what he needs, e.g., he doesn’t need to go to child care (if I weren’t home in the afternoons, he would be in child care that may or may not properly meet his needs), and there’s someone to handle all the paperwork, appts., etc., that’s involved in his care. (Yes, I’m grateful that I have a choice because he makes a high enough salary.)

            2. So you’re ignoring his wishes and blaming him for ihniring yours.

         2. The MBA sounds like the latest symptom in a long list of problems. It sounds like y’all aren’t on the same page on quite a list of things.

         3. The MBA sounds like the latest symptom in a long list of problems. It sounds like y’all aren’t on the same page on quite a list of things. Have y’all discussed these things?

         4. We don’t have kids, but my husband is also doing full-time school on top of full-timer work. It’s been mostly ok… because he acknowledges how much of a heavy lift it is for me to not be able to depend on him to have time to do anything. We got a housekeeper and then upped the frequency she comes. We’ve agreed to be more comfortable throwing money at inconveniences while he’s in school.

            The one time it’s really gone off the rails is while we were moving and he insisted we could do the “small stuff” ourselves and only have the movers take our furniture. Predictably, he didn’t have time to help with this. I packed up all my things and everything communal, he never packed his half of the closet/etc.. The movers arrived, I had food poisoning, and he told them to leave a bunch of things and that we’d move them ourselves. And then he, again, never had time to do that. Thankfully, we had a month of overlap between the two apartments, and he eventually spent the weekend after his finals finishing up the move.

            So, don’t let your husband over-commit you while he’s unavailable, and admit you’ll need to outsource extra help.

      2. Totally disagree. He’s furthering HIMSELF, not the family. Yes, maybe it will translate to more money, which will help the family, but it’s at the expense of a year and a half of being an equal parent and partner. Married people, especially those with kids, shouldn’t get to make unilateral decisions about stuff like this. 18 months of quasi-solo parenting is a LOT to ask a spouse. I’d be really upset if my husband decided to do this, even if his salary was guaranteed to double afterwards. A lot of people need their spouse to contribute to the household more than they need more money.

         1. +1. Especially since an EMBA is not likely to really increase earning power that much.

            1. Disagreee with Anon at 2:50pm. Everyone I know who did an EMBA did it for the credential to further their career. It’s a bit of a box-checking exercise when the next level on a career ladder requires an MBA.

            2. Anecdotal evidence here – EMBA did nothing for my husband’s salary or job prospects.

   2. Why would homework not be homework for an MBA? It’s the same as any other type of education . . .

      1. I don’t know, I did a professional(ish) degree, too, and I don’t think we really called our projects and reading “homework.” (Then again, it was 15 years ago and my memory is not great, so who knows!) It doesn’t really matter but I just didn’t know.

   3. I’m not a parent so I can’t speak to that aspect of it, but it definitely sounds like this is something that should’ve been a joint decision because of how it impacts both of you. Yes, it’s his career, but it’s definitely going to have a huge impact on you, and should’ve have been something he took on without you being on board. I’d try to work out a schedule and have a contingency in place for when the “homework at work” inevitably becomes “homework at home.” He’s essentially taking on a second job, and it’s a serious commitment. This isn’t 1950, it’s not like anything that benefits the man’s career will naturally be a benefit to the whole family since it’s the wife’s responsibility to take care of the kid and have dinner on the table and support her hubby. Make sure he knows that it’s on him to figure out how this will work for the two of you in a way that’s fair, since clearly his decision to take it on wasn’t approached that way.

      1. What OP and this post are not understanding is that MBA “homework” entails group work. So you have to coordinate the schedules of 4 or 5 people to work on a model, or a paper, or a presentation, together (with the exception of exams, which you take yourself). This means that since all of the EMBA students are working during the day, and weekends are taken up with classwork, that inevitably weekday evenings will involve this group work. Often this group work is not as efficient as it should be–you’re literally using all of your collective brainpower to figure out complicated stuff, like optimization models, or how best to market a product in a nascent industry. Scheduling during b-school was one of the most contentious things about b-school. At my school, we even had a staff social worker who held MBA spouse support groups, it could be so taxing on spouses. So yeah, OP, I think you and your husband should really discuss this, because you’re on to just how demanding this can be. To be fair, the first year was much, much worse than the second. Good luck.

         1. Ah, that seems obvious now (lots of group work that must be done by people who are already busy during the daytime hours), but I’m glad you pointed it out so that I can be aware of that aspect. I totally didn’t think of that sort of work (because I know nothing about MBA programs).

   4. Did you discuss this before he applied/enrolled? It sounds like he is doing this to further himself and his career rather than help his family. Am I missing something there? Also, I was under the impression that couples with special needs children are significantly more likely to divorce because it can be so stressful. It sounds like he if making a tough situation worse. That being said, in order to ease the burden on you, can you hire help even if temporarily or just someone to come in and clean every other week?

   5. You need to come up with a plan to give you the support you need while he is focused on school. That could be a standing arrangement with a babysitter, or a home health aide, or hiring out meals or extra housekeeping — whatever money you have to throw at problems, now is the time to do it.

      An MBA is very intense, requires a lot of flexibility and group project work. The good news is it’s relatively short and can have a huge impact on his earnings over a long career.

      You both need to be absolutely on the same page before he starts his classes or it will magnify whatever problems are already there.

   6. Not MBA but DH is currently going back to school for a graduate degree in a different field while working full time. We also have a special needs kid. I agree with the other posters that it sounds like there should have been more discussion up front. There was a lot of discussion in our house and before each semester we spend a lot of time trying to figure out his and our schedule. It’s hard and sometimes I feel frustrated by the schedule, but I’m also happy because my husband hated practicing law. You both have to be on the same page with this and discuss how it will impact your work and household life to get through it.

   7. Prepare yourself for the most important aspect of the program is group work and networking–not the whole school portion of this. Realize that this means that he will be out getting drinks after group sessions and there may be an expectation that you join in on a good number of events. My sister (no children) found this exhausting, as did most SO (with or without children) but the benefits long term are worth it.

   8. I was on the other side of this (until I graduated in May), and I second what others have said about the group work. Also, even though my DH and I discussed it, we weren’t really prepared for how little spare time I had. I did almost nothing around the house for the 18 months I was in the MBA program – between work and school, I had no time for anything. DH was extremely understanding about the situation, though (like OP) he wasn’t super keen on my doing it. FWIW, I almost immediately was able to get a better job after I finished, and so to me it was worth it financially… but DH thinks (probably correctly) that I would have been qualified for this even without the MBA.

      All of which is to say – I have sympathy for you both, and my advice would be to hash things about as much as possible before he starts. One of the things I really didn’t have time for was arguments about whether I should be in grad school, and the few times we did fight about it after I started were truly awful. You both need to commit.

      1. +1 My spouse went off to another city to do a full time MBA, and I didnt even have a child then but was resentful that this would put off our child-bearing plans another year or two and take on a ton of debt. I wasn’t happy about it, but now 7 years and 2 kids later we are doing fine and it was a small blip. It did help with a career change and I think resulted in some good lifetime connections and a network, so overall was probably a good move even though I dont know yet about the full economics of it.

   9. When I first read this I was like, “What the fucking selfish b**88!” But after reading the follow on context setting comments re: family needs, I totally empathize with you.

      I do think you and your DH need to have a serious sit down to discuss, this, and all the pent up issues. He may also need to use that space to explain how he envisions his EMBA will improve the family’s life as it may not be immediately clear to you.

      I think if there is a way the two of you can compromise for the future (perhaps after the 18 months he can lean-in to the home life and allow you to pursue your dream?”maybe you can start thinking of what it is you wish to pursue and table it.

4. I went on a hike with a friend I haven’t seen in a while and there were several plastic bags of dog waste at or within 100 feet of the trailhead (and the garbage can). I said that I thought it was rude for people to leave the bags on the ground like that, but my friend disagreed. Her position is that it’s fine to leave it as long as you pick it up when you return. My position is that it’s selfish to leave smelly bags of waste out because they detract from the experience of others who are using the trail and that many people “forget” to dispose of them properly when they return anyway. These forgotten bags also pose a danger to wildlife. What’s the mainstream opinion on this?

   1. What is up with these wacky posts this afternoon?

      Yes, you can leave dog bags out on the trail if you pick them up on your way back. If you’re within spitting distance of a trashcan, you put it in the trashcan. The end.

   2. Listen, I don’t like having dog sh!t everywhere, even if it’s in a bag, but I’m not advocating for people to carry sh!t with them while they hike. It’s perfectly fine if they do in fact pick it up on the way back. A lot of people don’t, though, and there’s probably a special place in h3ll for them.

   3. I think it’s fine if you actually pick it up, which many people don’t. So I’m with you on judging the people who “forget” to pick it up, but I’m with her that it’s not an inherently unacceptable practice.

   4. Within 100 feet of the trashcan? They should have thrown in away.

      1. I would actually rather they just leave poop vs. a bag of it (assuming it’s not on the trail itself).

         1. Yeah, that’s a good point!

   5. Huh. I don’t get why this is okay for dog sh*t but not for litter. I’m pretty sure people wouldn’t be cool with someone leaving a soda can on the ground to “get it later.”

      1. Because carrying around your soda can is not the same as carrying around sh!t while you finish your hike. Duh.

         1. What about carrying around your pizza box or giant McDonald’s bag of garbage? The soda can is just an example. I had to pick up two large pizza boxes (covered in ants) that someone had left at a picnic spot literally 75 feet away from a trash can in a well-trafficked hiking area. Sometimes people are just being lazy and rude.

         2. You have the stupid dog. I do NOT want to see your dog shit in a bag as I walk or hike in nature.

   6. I once expressed annoyance about this too, and once my dad explained that people do pick them up on their way out, I accepted that. But your post reopened it for me and now I’m wondering if no, maybe that’s still not cool. It’s tough because I can see it being very unpleasant to carry a bag full of poop with you for the entire hike, but leaving the bag by the trail spoils it for others.

   7. Naive question, but why can’t it just be thrown into the woods (without plastic bag)? Is it bad for the local wildlife?

      1. Yes, it is bad for wildlife and pollutes the environment and water sources. The EPA has some good fact sheets on the subject. I see a lot of people who think it’s okay not to scoop if their dog does his business off the trail (away from humans), but that’s no better for the environment. Sadly, I also see a lot of people who think it’s ok not to scoop on crowded sidewalks…

      2. I’m not a poop expert by any means, but my dad once told me that feces from an herbivore is good fertilizer for plants that grow food, but if you fertilize crops with feces from an animal that eats meat, the plant will grow but the food it produces won’t be safe to eat. Not exactly sure why, but it kinda makes sense.

   8. Totally selfish.

      The purpose of hiking is to be out in nature and get exercise. It is disgusting to look over and see bags of poop.

      Plus usually people forget. It’s disgusting. People will even hang bags from trees. My goodness. A hanging bag of poop. Just perfect when I am out hiking or walking.

   9. I would be super offended if someone did this in front of me. No you cannot leave bags of poop anywhere under any circumstances. If my kid needed his diaper changed we would change it and take the smelly diaper with us. Seriously parents do this every day.

   10. It’s not okay. The dog walkers I know have either thrown out the bag or (HORRORS) carried it with them as not to make it a nuisance to others (if the bag seals well, it’s not smelly, but it is definitely an eyesore and a form of littering to leave it on the trail even temporarily).

5. Since there were a lot of posts about how to deal with partners who are man-children, I thought I’d share one of my favorite internet essays: https://mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/

   I read this after I’d broken up with somebody who was a giant man baby and I really wished I could have beamed it straight into the eyeballs of my ex. I don’t want to be a man’s mother, I want to be his partner.

   1. I was talking with my cousin about how our husbands are really helpful around the house, but only when we ask/manage the process. This came up because my brother was being a major man-baby and insisted he didn’t know how to chop a zucchini. My uncle overheard the conversation and said “geez, you guys are being jerks, at least they’re helping” and seemed completely unable to understand how tiring and annoying it is to have to say “hey, that garbage bag is completely overflowing, can you take it out?” every week. Fortunately, my husband has gotten better about being proactive (after I’ve gone through the emotional labor of starting a discussion about it multiple times), but it looks like the older generation in my family is a lost cause.

   2. love this. I’ve been listening to the podcast “where should we begin?” and it’s given me so much food for thought even though my relationship is generally very happy and healthy. I just ordered two copies of Esther Perel’s first book, which I think discusses a lot of what the blog post explores – one for me to read and one for my SO. He was surprisingly open to reading and discussing it, which makes me think that he has been wanting explicit instruction on how to better handle these things.

   3. I recall a thread from a month or so ago where people were discussing how they couldn’t stay with a SO if that SO had wildly different political views or voted for Trump. My SO is a conservative from a blue collar background and our partnership is the most egalitarian one I’ve ever had. He cooks, cleans, does the laundry, takes out the trash, etc . all on his own volition. His blue collar male friends with children all do housework, take the kids to school, attend the events, bring them to their activities, etc. and think nothing of it. It’s not at all uncommon to go to a gathering at their homes and the men are cooking and feeding the babies, while the women are chatting with each other in the living room.
      It’s interesting how the “progressive” spouses everyone here seems to require talk the “equal partners” talk but don’t actually walk the walk. I don’t love my SO’s political leanings but our household is truly an equal partnership. That matters to me more than his lukewarm Trump support.

      1. You’re making a giant leap. This has nothing to do with political leanings. Man babies exist across the political spectrum!

         1. Doesn’t it though? A man who proudly identifies as a feminist, supports equal pay, and all of the progressive social platforms should therefore also do his part to ensure equality at home, no? Someone who votes for progressive causes but then doesn’t bat an eye when his spouse does all the housework seems awfully hypocritical.
            I just thought it was interesting that so many people on this board would never dream of being with someone who doesn’t align politically with them, but seem to have less of an issue with marrying a man who expects her to do all the cooking and cleaning.

            1. The point you’re not getting is that you can’t equate a few comments about man baby husbands with the majority of the liberal posters here. There is no way that most women here have husbands who expect them to do all the cooking and cleaning. Many, many regular posters – and countless more Anons – have talked about husbands doing lots of stuff, including stereotypical “female” tasks like cooking and baby care. You just remember the occasional “OMG my husband does nothing” posts because they’re more dramatic. It’s confirmation bias.

            2. But this is just your anecdotal experience. Do you have any data to back it up? Because in my anecdotal experience, my friends and relatives with conservative husbands tend to be the ones that have an unequal division of labor at home… does that negate your experience?

            3. And people who identify as progressive are probably going to bring up issues of inequality of household tasks over conservatives who accept their status quo. There’s a lot of discussion right now in liberal circles in the US about the division of labor in the home– I doubt there’s as much in conservative circles.

            4. Strong agree with the above three comments. As a statistician, No Man Babies Here’s argument has me all riled up! It’s just flat out wrong, and that doesn’t even have anything to do with the political content of the argument!

            5. “There’s a lot of discussion right now in liberal circles in the US about the division of labor in the home– I doubt there’s as much in conservative circles.”

               THIS. The Republican women I know are fine with doing close to 100% of the labor. Many of them are SAHMs (or even SAH wives). The liberal women I know (and I fully lump myself into this) are much more likely to complain about a husband who’s “only” doing 40% because they think it should be an even 50/50. I think Aunt Jamesina hit the nail on the head here, and it doesn’t mean that liberal men do less around the house than conservative men.

            6. With respect to this s1te, you also have selection bias. You might have a thread every week where one of us asks for tips on a problematic spouse, so you get the impression that the majority of people here have this issue. But that’s just because the rest of us don’t write a post every week detailing that our spouse did a thing without prompting and how grateful are we to have an equal partner.

      2. I mean I’m glad you have a happy relationship but I don’t think that your point has much bearing on anything other than the fact that this is a largely liberal skewing group and like in any group some partners are going to be less egalitarian than others. I don’t think that men are any more willing to pull their share of the weight in either camp. And at least my husband doesn’t vote against my reproductive, economic, environmental and health interests? He hates Trump, changes diapers, wakes up with our kids at night, does all the baths, and I haven’t cooked dinner or done the dishes in weeks, so what is your point?

         1. +10000 to each and every one of your points

         2. Yes, this! My husband haaaates Trump and is currently home on paternity leave with our 5 month old daughter. He does laundry and light cleaning while she naps, takes her with him to the grocery store once a week and makes dinner every night once I get home from work and am nursing the baby. She’s sleeping through the night now thankfully, but in the beginning he got up at every single night feeding and changed her and then rocked her back to sleep so all I had to do was nurse. Oh and he makes significantly more than me, but we can afford for him to stay home for a while and he doesn’t believe his “breadwinner” status exempts him from parenting.

      3. I think lots of us have progressive spouses that walk the walk. My husband is way more liberal than me and biggest feminist I know and he does more than half the house work and at least half the childcare. Congrats on finding an equal partner but it’s not like he’s an equal partner at home because he likes Trump.

      4. Nice anecdote, glad your relationship makes you happy, but you don’t get to turn your anecdote into data. Your life says nothing about how egalitarian “progressive” “non-blue-collar” men are.

         1. Not sure where you’re thinking I’m making this into “data.” “There were a lot of posts on how to deal with partners who are man-children” is a direct quote from the person to whom I was responding. It’s just interesting to me that many women here think the political thing is a dealbreaker but the man baby thing is not, and is something to “deal with.”

            1. No. You have no evidence that the same women who think politics is a dealbreaker are fine with a man baby. There are hundreds or thousands of people who regularly comment here, and probably at least ten times as many who regularly read but only occasionally comment. So even if there are 50 who say on one post that they’d never date a Trump supporter and 50 who’ve said at one point or another that they have a man baby husband, you have no basis for thinking it’s the same 50 people.
               Also, some of the people posting about husband issues have ended up leaving their husbands so for them it IS a dealbreaker.

            2. Nice back pedaling.

            3. I suspect that the reason why “many women here think the political thing is a dealbreaker but the man baby thing is not, and is something to ‘deal with'” has to do with the fact that the first comes up in the abstract or at the outset of a relationship whereas the other comes up later, when you are already involved. Most men – progressive or not – do not advertise the fact that they are man babies. They think they do plenty and would tell you that. Then you’re moved in, you have a kid, and you figure it out. It’s hard to change your mind on someone at that point. Much easier to swipe no when someone is wearing a MAGA hat. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t recall any posts of someone ending a relationship that was otherwise good because their partner was a Trump supporter. Those posts were mostly “how can I get past this?” Just like the man baby ones. Because once you’re invested, it’s tough!

            4. You keep saying that there are “many” people on this board who are progressive but fine with being married to man babies. That’s the data I’m talking about. You don’t actually have any numbers on that, and my impression from reading this board for years is actually the opposite, that generally speaking this board is intolerant of man babies. But, I don’t have any data on that because we haven’t done a survey, so my impression is only my impression, and yours is only yours, and it’s not actually a fact that “many” progressive women here are fine with man babies.

            5. Anonymous at 3:28, thank you for a clear and thoughtful reply. Your answer makes sense.
               Anonymous at 3:26, you seem unpleasant.

            6. And I don’t think anyone is actually okay with their partner being a man-baby, once that fact is discovered. I’m pretty sure that is a dealbreaker the same way political leanings can be. We can get het up over multiple things, interestingly enough.

      5. I think you’re making a big leap to suggest that conservative men are walking the walk. In my experience, both progressive and conservative men fail to walk the walk and it’s a well-known phenomenon that in the most egalitarian countries (Scandinavia), progressive men who take paternity leave and do some cooking still do much less housework than their female partners. I do agree it’s annoying when men tout their progressive credentials and maintain a persistent blind spot at home.

         1. That’s actually the point I’m trying to make. It’s not hypocritical for a conservative to expect his wife does the housework because…that’s the conservative viewpoint more or less.
            It’s hypocritical for a liberal to expect his wife to do the housework when he superficially touts feminist and other progressive causes.
            My experience is just what I’ve observed in my life and those around me. I’m merely pointing out that people on this board seemed more ok with being with a man-baby than the Republican voter, and that was interesting to me.
            I’m not extrapolating that conservative men are more egalitarian at home. It’s just surprising to me that educated, professional women who wouldn’t put up with a spouse voting for Trump will still put up with their spouse expecting them to do all the housework. The Trump voting spouse was a “definitely do not accept that” but the man-baby is “here’s an article on how to deal with them” and “here’s how I got my husband to kind of clean up after I expended a ton of emotional labor trying.” Probably neither the Trump voter nor the man baby is acceptable to some of you, but I’m willing to bet there’s a large contingency that rejects the former but accepts the latter, based on prior threads.

            1. Your talent for straw man arguments is unsurpassed!

            2. One big thing that you’re missing is that the Trump voter stuff is usually in the context of dating, often at the VERY early stages. Have you seen posts telling a woman she should ask her husband of a decade for a divorce because he voted for Trump? Or posts telling a woman that she should go on a second date with a guy who has proudly informed her he doesn’t do housework? You can’t compare someone saying she swipes left on Trump voters with a woman asking for advice about how to get her husband of 10 years to put in more effort around the house. OBVIOUSLY anyone would put more work into fixing a long term relationship, especially a marriage, especially especially with kids, then they would with some dude they saw on Tinder.

            3. Not sure how this is a straw man argument. The poster said that progressive men in Scandinavia do less housework than their female partners, and it’s annoying they tout progressive credentials while still conforming to traditional gender roles at home. I agree…

            4. If you put it like that, I could almost agree with you, except that I don’t view it as hypocritical. I agree with anonymous who points out that the level of commitment is important. In the dating stage you might be pickier, and when you are in a long-term relationship you might be more willing to invest effort and work through issues.
               The other point for me (I’d say I am moderate democrat) would be that if you vote Republican (and especially Trump), we have such fundamentally different views on how society should be structured and what matters in life, that I don’t see a way that you can be my no. 1 person. You and I might be able to be friendly and interact, debate and work together in constructive ways, but the deep level of connection that I share with my life partner needs shared views on humanity. Dealing with self-proclaimed feminist men who fail to walk the entire walk to me is acknowledging that people aren’t perfect. Often things can be improved though, and when I bring up an issue where I feel treated unfairly with my partner, I can expect that he will listen, take my concern seriously and try to find solutions. I don’t have to convince him in the first place that I deserve equity and that this is a problem that needs fixing.

            5. For those looking for data, take a look at this OECD study to see the trend between more equal (though not equal) unpaid labor between sexes occurring more often in more progressive countries :http://www.oecd.org/gender/balancing-paid-work-unpaid-work-and-leisure.htm

            6. Also http://time.com/4476447/see-where-in-the-world-guys-do-the-least-housework/ (click on the “men vs. women” tab on the chart).

      6. She said something nice about conservative men. Burn her at the stake!

         Or do the Handmaidens have a special way if killing dissidents? My apologies if there is one.

         1. That is not at all what happened here and you know it.

            1. Bull.

               You all pile on to any woman with any political leanings out of the liberal orthodoxy. It’s like being one of the Mean Girls and not wearing punk on Wednesday.

            2. Yes it is. If she had said “my conservative husband helps out with housework” I think everyone would have congratulated her

               It was when she added on that liberal men don’t help with housework as a global statement based on a few observations that she started sh1t.

               For what it’s worth, I’m one of three sisters. My husband is the most liberal of the three husbands and also does the most housework. In fact, he does more than i do. Does that mean my example applies to everyone? Of course not. But it is also not true that all left leaning men are man babies just because the OP thinks she has observed this in random complaining posts on this s1te.

               And you know you are just looking to start a fight.

            3. “It was when she added on that liberal men don’t help with housework as a global statement based on a few observations that she started sh1t”

               Again, bull.

               The progressive benches who infest this site make much more sweeping and nasty statements about conservatives all the time, and it’s taken as a rational, level-headed statement of fact.

               The hypocrisy is sickening.

            4. “The progressive benches who infest this site make much more sweeping and nasty statements about conservatives all the time, and it’s taken as a rational, level-headed statement of fact.

               The hypocrisy is sickening.”

               As far as I know, there’s no legal requirement that you have to read this blog. If the political leanings and discourse aren’t to your liking – just go somewhere else! Obviously this community isn’t meeting your needs, so go find another one. It isn’t rocket science.

   4. First time reading that article, and my gut reaction is that the guy is moonlighting as sociopath. He thinks all men are incapable of understanding that something not important to them can be important to someone else? Kids learn empathy by middle school.

   5. It’s one of my favorite posts too, and I highly recommend The Second Shift as well, it’s a quick read!

      I haven’t dealt with housework inequality with a romantic partner, but during my 20’s I had two male roommates (not together, one right after the other) who barely did anything and I honestly felt like a housewife. It was exhausting! And these weren’t sexist men either, both were very pro-feminist, they just felt like housework was something they could opt out of if they didn’t “wanna” do it, whereas that had never occurred to me, and I think that revealed a difference in how boys and girls are still being raised.

6. I probably don’t have any recourse since I’m moving out anyway, but my landlord is making my life insane. He’s renovating when I move out, which was supposed to be the end of the month. He asked if I could move up my last day and because of an overlap with the new place, that wasn’t a problem, so I’m already leaving a week earlier than planned. Then, he asked if it was ok for a contractor to come by and measure the space to get estimates, etc. while I was at work. I said it was fine, but when I came home the contractor had started ripping out the tile floor. Landlord apologized, said there was a misunderstanding. But the renovations haven’t stopped. Now, the tile is gone completely, carpet in the spare room (which was empty) is gone completely, there are patches of new paint on the walls, and carpet in rooms I’m still using is torn up around the edges. There’s dust all over my apartment, which leaves me cleaning everything when I’m trying to pack up and get out. Then, my landlord asks today if I really need to be there this weekend since he’d like to go ahead and paint. YES, I need to be there! I’m moving out this weekend per the schedule I gave him, so yeah, not a good time to paint when I’m trying to move all my stuff out. Just hold your horses for 48 hours. Glad I’m leaving, but so, so angry at this guy.

   1. Ugh, that’s really annoying!

   2. Not totally sure on the law on this (is this a unit/multi-family place or an single home?), but I think you probably made your first mistake when you told him that he could have access. And certainly when you didn’t completely deny him access for this purpose after the tile got partially removed.

      1. Yeah, I’m kicking myself for that now, but I never guessed it would be a problem. I’ve lived here for 3 years and on several occasions I’ve given permission for the landlord to come by with a repair guy while I’m at work so I don’t have to use PTO because the dishwasher broke or whatever. They always call at least 24 hours in advance to make sure it’s ok, tell me exactly what they’re doing, and let me know when they’ve left. The landlord has a key to the unit, but I have a separate lock on my bedroom (landlord gave the ok for installation) that only I can access for anything I need to keep secure. He blamed the contractor for the initial tile, so I assumed it was a weird fluke, which clearly was stupid on my part. It’s a condo, so single unit in a larger building.

   3. I had a landlord who did that and worse. What got through was basically: you have a legal obligation to have me here through X date, and any further interference with my rights or attempts to remove me soone will be met with a lawsuit.

      Some people push as far as they can.

   4. Have you already paid through the month? Maybe he can credit you back something for the inconvenience.

7. Anyone have a recommendation for a legal recruiter in Denver? I’m looking for something in house.

   1. Gibson Arnold & Associates. I think they’re mostly in Houston, but they do have some jobs posted in Denver. I got in-house position through them at a Fortune 10 energy company. Good luck!

      1. They have offices in the Denver area too! Thank you!

8. Can the New Yorkers here give me some advice? I’m staying near Columbus Circle and have a couple days to myself. Can you think of anywhere in the area that would be particularly good for solo dining?

   1. There’s a Parm on Columbus Ave and a Bouchon Bakery in the Time Warner Center both of which would be good for lunch. You could also grab something to go Whole Foods (or anywhere!) and have a little picnic in Central Park. If you want to be a little fancy and splurge on some great sushi, go to Sushi of Gari and sit at the bar.

      There is also a bit of a “restaurant row” across from Lincoln Center and you could grab a table outside at one of those places and people watch. Boulud Sud might be particularly good for that sort of thing. I also like Souvalki GR on W. 55th street (?) and there are lots of place in Hell’s Kitchen along 9th and 10th if you want to head that way.

      1. Sorry for all the typos, hit post too soon!

   2. Danji, for fun Korean food. Taboon, for Mediterranean. I’ve never been to Sushi of Gari, but I have a friend who loves it.

      1. Danji is great!

      2. Gari is delicious but very expensive. Just a warning!

   3. Thank you!

9. Favorite fun snack food to munch while doing a non-fun task? I have a bunch of organizing I’m dreading this weekend and snacks help me plow through stuff like that. Also accepting recommendations for awesome Spotify playlists to listen to during this.

   1. I personally reward myself by getting out of the house for something, as opposed to munching. Like going for a mid-morning starbucks or something.

      1. Yes! We have a local walk-up ice cream stand that’s my favorite on WFH days! I get a malted Oreo shake :D

   2. We’ve had a few posts that might help — https://corporette.com/the-best-spotify-playlists-to-help-you-focus and https://corporette.com/girl-power-songs and https://corporette.com/music-moods.

      What’s cool is that a reader actually made a “Woman Power” playlist from that second post I linked to: https://open.spotify.com/user/ijoemonkey/playlist/70Yno4czzT0ZHfZYdLT7yO?si=4KB89pDvQkGolD_Bhzeo7g.
      Here’s a kind of motivating playlist with music from movie scores, etc.: https://open.spotify.com/user/cgwest23/playlist/4c1HA09yZBbNYpM4mJ874V?si=L6h6A5LLS4yVA1utHxKFmw.
      If you’re a fan of musicals, I’ve been building a playlist of “I Wish” / “I Want” songs that would be fun to listen to while doing that stuff (NSFW): https://open.spotify.com/user/chococat317/playlist/1greXDwLdnWXlnVo758Alp?si=-EEXmqJ0SMKwXsgxCW4o4g.
      “Covered in Punk” is great — punk covers of popular songs from various decades (and now): https://open.spotify.com/user/spotify/playlist/37i9dQZF1DXaDzsRodF91I?si=jkG7lpD1T7OPdHdZegARtw.
      Try “Feel-Good Indie Rock” as well: https://open.spotify.com/user/spotify/playlist/37i9dQZF1DX2sUQwD7tbmL?si=57GAXdrxTEGvDOawcgc0Qg.
      One more — music somehow connected (?) with the Broadway show “A Doll’s House, Part 2” — stuff from awesome women like Sleater-Kinney and PJ Harvey: https://open.spotify.com/user/dollshousepart2/playlist/5QSfQQ0U9vR6U3RmpGpD32?si=lr8yVZTOTDu977W2jJxl5A.

   3. Wine.

10. Why did all the comments just get deleted Kat?

    1. I’m seeing 100+ — are you not seeing any at all? What about yours?

       1. Yeah, I’m also still seeing a lot of comments.

11. Looking for some BTDT advice. I was a BigLaw associate in DC for 9 years, leaving in 2002 to start a family. Since then, I started and ran a small business for 6 years, and homeschooled 2 children. I now live in Tampa, FL and am looking to become an inhouse legal recruiter at a law firm. Anyone made this switch from associate to inhouse recruiter? Any advice?

    1. I’m curious – you’ve been out of the legal field for 16 years. How do you envision your current skills to translate into inhouse legal recruiting? I’m not being snarky, it’s just that every recruiter I know made the switch fairly directly during/just after their legal experience. Depending on your answer, your path could go in different directions to get back in there. For example, if your small business was outsourcing HR, that’s very different than coming from a less obviously relevant business background. Good luck.

12. How do you all cut or otherwise shorten your nails — nail clippers? scissors? filing? This feels like something I ought to know but I bit my nails for so long I never actually learned how to do anything else. TIA!

    1. Clippers, then file to shape.

       1. Same here. It’s gentler on the nail than trying to saw off significant length with a file.

    2. I keep an emery board in my ash tray in the car and file my nails at stoplights.

    3. Hello fellow reformed nail-biter! I clip then file. I find that ordering a ton of nail files and keeping them in every room and bag ensures I file off hangnails instead of biting and picking at them. I’ve been able to keep from going back to nail-biting for more than five years now :)

       1. Ok I know this product has a cheesy name but i have to share

          ClassyLady Professional Glass Nail File – Crystal Finger Nail Files For Natural and Acrylic Nails, Double Sided Glass Nails File instead of Emery Boards and Buffers (Silver) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LC3YWBW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qGKuBb17AZ0X6

          My husband somehow ordered this for me and put it in my xmas stocking and it’s the best nail file I have ever used. I ended up ordering more for my purse, my travel toiletries bag, my bedside drawer, and I think I have one in my car too.

          I know people think it’s gross to see someone file or clip their nails in public so I don’t do that, but a quick file for a rough nail is the best. These crystal files don’t make your nail more raggedy like an emery board. They’re great for presenting snags. I’ve saved many pairs of tights from being snagged this way.

          1. I have one too – it’s genius and I think it keeps them stronger too.

    4. I only use a file….

13. PSA about m o d e r a t i o n:

    At least for me, if I check “Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment,” my comments are posted immediately. I have no idea why this works! But so far it does. You have to re-check it every time, though. Hopefully this works for other people too!

    1. Didn’t work for me today. Will be surprised if this response shows up…

    2. Doesn’t work for me.

    3. Doesn’t work for me.

14. 1) I ordered the echo dot on prime day – 3 of them, 1 for each of my teenagers and 1 for the master bathroom so i can listen to NPR in the morning. My kids are having a blast playing akinator with Alexa and controlling their lamps etc with Wi-Fi plug things i also bought on prime day. Great fun, thanks for all the recs.

    2) I know there are a couple other Cuyana obsessed people here. Did you see the fall sneak peek? I love that burgundy!

    1. Only Cuyana could make me consider buying a $45 tee shirt. But I love it, it seems very Meghan Markle to me.

15. Question about Adoption: Is it possible to adopt here in the US if one of the parents has had a serious mental health issue resulting in an inpatient stay and is in ongoing therapy? I would love to adopt from foster care, but I’m not sure that we can. Going down this road and being turned away because of our history would break my heart.

    To preempt this question: Our family is stable and loving. While there are no guarantees of the future regarding mental health, that is true for all, but something of which we are cognizant and take active measures to prevent.

    1. Not a family lawyer, but I expect this varies enormously by state.

    2. I’d actually start by asking you/your partner’s psychiatrist if she sees any reason for you not to adopt and consider whether you truly feel capable and what you would do with the child in a worst case scenario. Maybe you’ve done this and decided to proceed? With the support of a medical professional maybe you could move forward/maybe that would help your application.

       I think you’ll have to inquire with the state or individual adoption agencies … maybe they can give you some guidelines upfront so that you’ll have a good idea about the viability of this plan before you invest a lot of time in the process (hopefully it will help lessen potential heartbreak).

       1. … which is to say, I don’t know but I wish you the best!

    3. I don’t know if you’re still reading, but this would not be an automatic preclusion in my state (and I doubt it would in any state because it seems discriminatory to me, but I can only speak of my knowledge of my own state). It would definitely be something you have to disclose to the social worker who is working on approving your home, and the ultimate decision would be made on a case-by-case basis. A note from the treating psych would go a long way, in fact would probably be almost necessary from the foster care agency’s perspective. Be prepared to have an answer ready as to why the person who had this issue is now ready to take on this challenge. Good luck, the system can always use loving, sincere people like you!

16. We got quotes back for a Major addition to our existing house and it’s about 25-30% higher than we’d expected (350k vs 250k). Our options are:

    Do nothing and continue to be miserable in our existing home (free)
    Sell our existing home and take a hit (we would probably get $650; we paid $680 and put about $30k into major systems upgrades/repairs, plus another $60k in realtor and moving fees, and say $10k in upgrades we’d have to make to sell it [desparately needs painting for example]). After backing out realtor fees we’d have about $130k in equity which we could combine with the $200k we’d earmarked for the reno and buy a house in the $950k range, which in our market would likely still need some work to be what we really want.
    Spend the $350k and do the reno, understanding that we’d probably take a hit when we sell since the work improves the value of the home but by more like $150k not $350k.

    I don’t love the location we’re in, but it could be worse (or the same and just more expensive). Our reno doesn’t get us to perfect, but it gets to long term liveable. We’re in the northeast and it involves (in part) building a garage, which we do not currently have.

    We have 3 young kids, and the reno would be much less disruptive (I know! But it’s true) than the selling/moving. It feels like setting money on fire to stay and reno but….it might just be the price of not moving?

    We can afford all of these options, but are not wild about any of them. I refuse to live in a house without a garage and only one shower for another year, so we need to decide soon. We’ve spoken with realtors and they all have different opinions.

    1. Renovations almost never come in on budget or on time. I was told to double both cost estimate and to e estimate. That’s probably extreme given the scope of your project, but keep in mind the cost and time component are likely to grow.

       1. Yep. It will ALWAYS go over budget and over schedule.

          Can you scale back on the renovations? I feel like you could literally build an entire house for $350K.

          1. In some areas you can. In ours a ton of the cost is labor, and also, there’s not a good middle ground. We could do a $100k reno but it won’t be what we want or what future buyers would want so wouldn’t add much if any value to our house (a detached garage with nothing else). We specifically tire kicked this optionsith the realtors.

             If we do an attached garage, we get a lot more (bonus room, midroom, bathroom, nicer garage generally). There’s some other work, like redoing our porch and gutting part of the house where the garage attaches, but if we don’t do that work we have a fixed-upper house with a $350k addition and that won’t sell either (also per realtor).

             1. It sounds like you’re driving yourself crazy with options and desires. i think you’re going to have to come to terms with the fact that you can’t have exactly what you want — the exactly right combination of no-hassle factors, good money investment, good money return, good house design, good house location, good timing, etc., etc., etc.

                Choose the lesser of your “evils” and move forward. If you’re looking at houses in this price range, you’re living pretty well, no matter what you choose.

    2. We sold our small house and bought a big one that was a fixer upper and i am still so glad we did it. Home additions are notoriously ugly and out of keeping with the style of the rest of the house. I looked at lots of houses with additions when we were looking for another bedroom and bath, and I hated really all of them. You either had an addition that ate up most of the yard or an addition that looked like it didn’t belong with the rest of the house, or an addition that was just poorly and cheaply done.

       The house we are in now is probably our forever home. It was built to be a big house so it has the scale – like a wide foyer and a wide staircase and things like a full pantry and dining room built-ins – that are appropriate to the rest of the house. An addition on my old, tiny house would have resulted in some kind of larger master bedroom/bath in a new upstairs, but a weird, steep staircase that would have eaten half of one of the original bedrooms, and we would still have had the narrow hallways, inefficient kitchen, and no coat closet(!) design of the original house downstairs.

       1. We have a fabulous architect that designed our changes. We’re in an old historic district and the design is really good. We passed on so many houses because of the “great room bump out” or the weird loft space/finished 3rd floor “bonus” space.

          It’s just a lot to spend. And there’s not much out there for us to buy and get what we want in the $1M range, which is what we’d be looking at if we don’t reno, plus THE HASSLE of moving. The way our reno is designed it’s closed off to our house until the final stages.

    3. I’m in the struggle with you; similar situation. I’d stay put and scale my renovation into stages. Right now, my 1910 house needs a bathtub. In two years, it’ll need an additional bathroom and once we are liquid enough, we’ll add some square footage for a kitchen/ laundry. This way, we can keep assessing our improvements against the market. Keep in mind that once you’re looking at 1millon plus for a not-perfect house, you may have to accept that you’ll never get everything you want. Also, I’m ok with a detached garage now that my car has heated seats. Just a small tip ;)

17. Q for those of you who have POA over an elderly relative. I have medical and financial POA over a 99 yo grandparent who lives 1000 miles away and is confined to a nursing home, and mentally unable to make decisions. On her behalf, I manage her finances (essentially utilities and nursing home expenses til it’s all spent down and she goes onto Medicaid), and I am currently selling her house. I don’t have to show for the closing since the realtor has said we can do this remotely, so I am notarizing all documents and sending them in. When we started with the realtor, I had provided a (scanned) copy of the financial POA, which explicitly discusses real estate, and the realtor said that was fine. Now the title company is asking for the actual original (in ink) signed POA, which I don’t think I have. (The POA was made 20 years ago when my grandparent was in full sound stable health.) Isn’t the scanned version enough? The state where the real estate transaction is happening is Pennsylvania if that makes a difference. Thanks!

    1. I sold my mom’s house under my POA authority and had to submit the original POA for recording purposes. I received it back in about 2 weeks. However, I am not in PA.

       1. But…were there hints and allegations?

    2. I’ve sold many properties as a trustee. I’ve found that some title companies are much stricter than others. Get your realtor to ask around to see if there’s a title company that’s easier to deal with.

    3. I am in Ohio, not Pennsylvania, but in Ohio this is correct. The POA must be recorded before the deed you will sign, in order to show you have authority to sign the deed on your grandparent’s behalf, to anyone who does a title exam in the future. In most circumstances the recorder’s office will only accept originals for recording.

       This situation crops up unfortunately frequently, that the family selling the property does not have an original POA. Two options to explore: often the attorney who prepared the POA kept the original, so you can try to track him/her down. His/her name and address may be on the copy of the POA you have. Also, check with the title company about whether the recorder’s office there will accept a certified copy – sometimes this is an option.

       I’m sorry – these situations are so frustrating, and it really bothers me that attorneys who prepare POAs don’t warn families this will be an issue, and provide multiple originals, or just go ahead and record and original when it’s first signed.

18. Wow, I just caught up with the morning post and now this one. What is going on with the crazies today? Do we have some bored frat boys home for the summer who think it would be fun to stir up sh1t on a ladyblog?

    1. What are you talking about? The morning thread is downright mundane and this is similar.

    2. I agree there is one or more trolls who are commenting on nearly everything …..

19. I’m sick today and missing pool class with my daughter. Husband refused to take her because he “doesn’t know how the pool works”. Just amazing. And he keeps bringing up having another kid. I’m lost for words.

    1. My husband once told me he knew where swim lessons were and took kid to the wrong pool at the wrong time and just joined a class.

       Another time he got sick of dance lessons and just said they were cancelled (they were not).

       Thankfully he doesn’t want more.

       1. Haha! Thank you! I feel better.

20. Boston Ladies:
    Can anyone recommend a hotel or B&B near Harvard Square? Will be visiting with my daughter and would like to be within safe walking distance of the T. Thank you and I hope you have a lovely Sunday!

    1. The Charles is very nice and very close to the T, but very expensive. Most of the hotels in the Harvard Square area are quite expensive, so just be prepared for that.

21. So I’m going to pay for it anyway but was just wondering on etiquette:

    Was at a friends house. I do not drink. Friend is aware of this. I said no several times. Poured me a glass of wine anyway. I wasn’t thrilled but I had a sip to be polite. Put it down on their table. Their table is some sort of weird artsy not flat table made of recycled wood. Glass tipped on an electronic. Electronic is not shot but needs a repair.

    I apologized and committed to repair cost immediately and sincerely but am kind of bummed about the whole situation and won’t visit their house again.

    Most the insistence on giving me wine is what bugs me. I’m also wondering about people having dinner tables that aren’t flat… I mean… seriously is this a thing now?

    1. Your friend was rude to force alcohol on you but at the same time you’re a grown adult who can say no. I also don’t drink and wouldn’t have accepted/sipped the wine. That said, having electronics on the dinner table w/wine seems odd and I think it was gracious of you to pay.

    2. The wine situation seems unrelated to the spill – the result is the same whether it was wine, water, ice tea, etc. and you said you had a sip so it’s not like you had a few and lost some sense of spatial reasoning. They probably shouldn’t have had the electronic on the table. Seems like an accident and without more details I’m not sure why you offered to pay – it sucks for the electronics user but why put it where it’s reasonably likely it could be spilled on.

       You sound annoyed about the wine and they should have let up the first time you said no thanks. But then you went and drank some anyway so perhaps they don’t know that you don’t drink like you think they do – because you do drink, even if only because you think you must do it to be polite. Let me relieve you of that notion because you don’t and the person being impolite is the one pressuring you to eat/drink something you don’t want (assuming you’re an adult and not a small child that needs to be told to eat your veggies). If someone pours something for you after you’ve said no just remind them you said no thanks and don’t drink it. The pourer is the one being weird here.

       the artsy table is just an innocent bystander. I’m not sure the exact statistics but I’m certain there is a high incidence rate of things getting knocked over and spilled even on the flattest of tables.

    3. Your friend was extremely rude for not dropping it after the first or second offer, and I’d wonder why they care whether someone is drinking or not, it really shouldn’t affect them. That said, I think you did need to offer to pay. If I were your friend I wouldn’t take you up on the offer though.

22. Talk to me about debt payment programs/those personal loan programs where you consolidate your debt into one payment. Good idea or bad?

    For context: I’m late 20s, make $30k per year and have about $9k in cc debt (no student loans or anything). I’m spending $200-300 per month paying down ccs, but am also looking at a potentially hefty car repair bill which is stressing me out. I have only $1300 in savings. I’m trying to find another job that pays well/get a salary increase at my current job but I’m really struggling.

    I am SO sick of being constantly stressed out about money and living on pennies. I honestly don’t know how much longer I can live like this.

    1. If , other than the current pay, you like your prospects at your current job, get a second job rather than a new full-time gig. It was the difference for me between constantly worrying and not when I was in your situation at that age.

       I remember those days well, and you have my sympathy. I know how much it sucks right now.

    2. Good for you for working on this.

       It is very stressful living on a low income. But as a grad/med student, which I was for more than a decade and will into my 30’s, I figured it out.

       You need to move. You need to live with roommates. That will save a ton of money, and your situation will become very manageable. Bite the bullet. Just live simply with roommates for a couple of years and get things sorted. You can do this.

    3. Ask again on the morning thread. Debt consolidation can work well in certain circumstances. It’s at least worth listening to the pitch. But if you have good credit history, I would just keep moving the 9K to zero interest cards every 6 months or whatever until you have a better situation.

23. Cool, I like to wear jeans. However, sometimes the pants are too tight for me to feel uncomfortable
    https://weekendsale.club/

    1. spam….

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