Thursday’s Workwear Report: Wrap Dress

390 Comments

1. Any recommendations about where to get clothing for a 10 year old (probably size 12 based on her height) with a booty? The hand-me-downs we have are all cut for skinny little people, and this daughter has more meat on her bones. I am not sure where to look next.

   1. I find Carters has a chunkier fit.

   2. Like, do Gap Kids and JCrew crew cuts not fit? (Sorry, “meat on her bones” is coming across a little crude to me. Like the kind of thing Pete said about Peggy in Mad Men when she … gained weight)

      1. Yeah I hate all of this post. You’re looking for girls’ clothes than run a bit larger no need to repeatedly call your daughter fat

         1. She’s not looking for clothes that just ‘run larger’. How they are larger matters – like my tall kid wears a lot of H+M and Old Navy because of how the leggings and pants fit. Carters runs shorter and wider. H+M sizing runs but the fit is narrower and longer so sizing up in that brand wouldn’t likely work because it would be too big elsewhere. I also dislike OP’s ‘meat on bones’ phrasing but ‘larger’ is unhelpfully vague.

            1. Yeah, I agree. My daughter has a booty and I love it! Her cousin is like a walking stick, and I love that too!
               But the difference obviously makes a difference in clothing fit, just as it would with adults.

            2. So the OP could have said “she has more curves in the hip/butt than many 10yo” – that is specific without semi-dated fat-shaming language!!

            3. But saying “curvy cut” on a 10YO girls is also a bit creepy. I prefer that this age be allowed to be g-rated in the descriptor department.

               My kids have friends in many shapes, so one brand would not suit them all. Adults have things like “Classic Cut” and “Kensington Cut” (which is so vague as to need to be defined somewhere). Maybe “roomy through the hips and thighs”? Thick? IDK how to do it best, but I know what the OP means.

            4. Yeah – agreed. I was a kid that “developed” more quickly – had hips when everyone else was straight up and down. I was not overweight, but it meant that most age appropriate clothing didn’t fit on the bottom. “Has a booty” tells me something different than “fat”. That age is really hard for clothes – everyone is growing and developing at different rates (and often different body parts will develop earlier than others).

            5. Hey BBB, she’s not a walking stick!!!!

         2. This is reaction is really something. My super skinny kid is my son, and our stated goal in tandem with his pediatrician was to get “meat on his bones” when his medicine suppressed his appetite. There are real problems in the world, and “meat on her bones” is not probably one of them, especially in a comments section that regularly discusses Botox, lash fillers, and other signs of society’s demands on femininity. Some perspective, please.

      2. I think this is our usual poster with a lot of anxiety about her “large” kids and how to dress. Very familiar tone and always crude phrasing – “mutton dressed as lamb” is another go-to.

         1. +1

   3. I know old navy sells girls ‘plus’ which are bigger than standard children’s clothing. There is a tab to toggle between the regular and plus on item pages (similar to how the pages for adults items allow you to toggle between regular and tall). Of course not all styles are available in plus.

   4. Love how y’all can’t help someone find a GD pair of pants without telling OP how to Mom and how to Woman.

      1. We will never get the corner office b/c we’re too busy being the word police.

         1. +1

            I write for a living, and I can’t even with most of you.

         2. +1

         3. Amen.

      2. 100%

         You gotta make sure you’re PERFECT before posting on this anonymous blog or you will get zero help, plus a major side of insults.

         1. So true!

         2. I mean, she isn’t being called out for a typo or grammar mistake. “Meat on her bones” is a pretty gross and s*xist phrase, especially when used in reference to a literal child. I’m not any of the people that responded to OP but I don’t know anyone who talks like this in real life and I was pretty horrified when I read it. Expecting someone not to be gross and s*xist isn’t expecting “perfection.”

            1. Maybe I’m the odd one out but I know people that say things like that. It’s kind of old fashioned but not like ew you gross fatty, more like something my grandmother would say to encourage us to eat more at Sunday dinner.

            2. Uh, some of us are unaware that’s a bad thing to say bc we are 45 and out of touch. When I describe my kids I have so much love for them that when I note to my husband that one kid’s butt is rounder like his family and the other’s is flat like mine, it’s with a ton of love and equal admiration and amazement for both their perfect little bodies.

            3. Yeah this is a normal idiom for many people and is neither negative in connotation nor remotely gendered. It’s also technically accurate as a description? This just sounds like pearl clutching to me.

            4. That’s hardly universally acknowledged as a horrible phrase. Kids have bodies that come in all different shapes and sizes just like adults. They are the shape they are. Pretending they are something else or using vague unhelpful phrasing like ‘larger’ is just sugarcoating the issue, she needs pants to fit her kid as a result of a specific body shape.

               Don’t work out your childhood weight issues on this poster who rewrote a benign if not ‘ideally worded’ post.

            5. I’ve used meat on his/her bones about people. It literally doesn’t mean fat or chunky. I like it better – to me, it’s a good thing.

            6. Anon @ 10:29 you aren’t the odd one out. I don’t find “meat on her bones” offensive at all but I am Southern and heard it all the time growing up, maybe that’s why. Sounds like this was a trigger for some but in my community having curves, a booty and hips is celebrated and is not indicative of being fat.

               My five year old also has a booty and hips and on top of all that, is way taller than all her age peers so shopping for her can be challenging. I would be loathe to call her “shapely” or “curvy” or even “thick” because to me, those are used to describe adult women and have sexual undertones. Maybe “she’s not shaped straight up and down” works?

            7. In my native language, we also say the literal same thing, meat on bones. It is a neutral descriptor. I think there is also some skewed perspectives around being thin still being the declared goal for any person of any age or gender, and per that logic, ANY words describing a not-thin body can only fall in the spectrum between unflattering and insulting.

            8. No it’s not. It’s an old-fashioned phrase, but it’s not offensive. Neither is mutton dressed as lamb. They are just … old expressions. Kind of like – bless your heart.

            9. “I don’t know anyone who talks like this” (saying near on her bones) just means that you are in your mid 20s and don’t interact with anyone older than yourself because you’re convinced your generation is the only definition of cool. How ageist!

            10. I’m a real person and I’ve said “meat on her/his bones” in real life and never in a negative context. This is a very silly take on a fairly neutral phrase. And again, it’s real rich offense from the commenters on a site that talks about making yourself physically acceptable for the corporate workplace as a women.

            11. Ok so she should just say her kid is fat.

            12. My dad always has said I have alot of meat on my bones, and that is just an expression. Unlike my sister, I inherited the genes from my Grandma Trudy, who has an ample tuchus that mom also has. Why I got the tuchus, and Rosa didn’t is not something that is answerable in science, my OBGYN told me. It is pretty much a crapshoot, I have been told by experts, and I have tried to slim it down, but genetics is not helping here either. So I’ve come to accept this and even found men that focused favorably on my tuchus because it’s culturally acceptable elsewhere to have curvier tuchus. Look at Brazil, where women actually get implants to get bigger tuchuses!

         3. YUP.

         4. Hard agree. I once posted something as an anon and was told I was a terrible person for being hurt that I’d been excluded from a family event. Picking apart everything someone says when they are trying to solve a problem doesn’t make you superior, it makes you an a-hole.

      3. Yeah – I feel like it’s getting a little excessive lately. I’ve asked perfectly innocuous questions before and someone still finds something to snark about.
         As someone who was my full height and wearing women’s clothing in 7th grade, this is a real concern! Couldn’t shop where my peers did.

         1. I still remember when I first got him a dog (a puppy!) and called him “my pup” on here, someone snapped at me and told me to stop calling him that. It was such a minor thing and they so overreacted that it really stung.

            1. Why weren’t you supposed to say that? That is a weird one.

            2. What on earth. It’s not like you said “furbaby”; it’s such natural English to shorten puppy to pup. Out of sheer pettiness, I just checked the OED, and the first known appearance in print is in Erasmus’s translation of Caesar, so they can snap about that too if they want.

      4. +1000
         Can we not?

   5. I really don’t get what is offensive about “meat on her bones.” Why is that worse than “larger” or “has more curves”? Is something wrong with meat?

      OP, my son wears “husky” sizes (talk about dated language), which sounds like not exactly what you need. It’s really frustrating not being able to find clothes that fit, so I emphasize.

      1. It’s describing a person as an animal. It is literally dehumanizing.

         1. People are animals. I guess I’m just old, but this is absolutely a phrase I have used about myself.

            1. Same. I don’t get how it’s so terrible. And it can be used for men and women or boys and girls, so it doesn’t seem terribly sexist either.

               But I have referred to my own arms as “beefy,” which is what happens when I work out regularly and start building more muscle, but I haven’t lost much fat.

         2. …humans are animals, sorry to break it to you.

      2. Plus “meat on my bones”and “thick” are also body neutral phrases in the Black community, and “booty” is a perfectly normal word in my house. I don’t know OP, but I think people should be aware that in subcultures that don’t worship skinnyness, we are sometimes frank about our bodies without body shaming.

         1. Such a good point.

         2. This. Part!

      3. Last I checked, there wasn’t a High Commissioner for Exceptionally Perfect 100% Feminist Language, so I’ll continue to use the phrase, thank you very much.

   6. Have you tried department stores? Not familiar with girl’s clothing lines at Kohl’s but I find some of their in house brands are cut shorter/wider vs long/skinny. If you can shop in person it might be worth a shot to take her there or somewhere like Macy’s.

   7. Ugh. I just cannot with this site some days. It’s like everyone today is about boiling over with range and wanting to hit people and break things.

      1. This, exactly.

      2. Agree. It can be exhausting some days.

   8. OK, wow, this simple ask took a super weird turn. OP, if you’re still reading, I’d recommend Cat and Jack, Adidas for athletic wear, maybe Hanna Andersson for basics, and Children’s Place. I’d stay away from H&M, Old Navy and Gap brands, as those seem to run more slender.

   9. OP, my daughter is in the same general age range and also not the same shape as the template the clothes were made from. We’ve had really good success with Carter’s and Walmart brands that have come out with plus sizes. A 10/12 plus tends to be roomier than a standard without being excessively longer.

   10. Have you considered juniors’ sizes? They are cut curvier than kids’ sizes (smaller waist in relation to hip size) but not so curvy as adult sizes. The smallest size at Hollister is roughly equivalent to a kids’ 12 with a different shape.

   11. as someone who was skinny but had a booty and thighs when I was in kindergarten and who is a skinny pear/curvy now, this is a hard body to dress! it always has been. I don’t remember ever having good options as a kid (spent a lot of time tugging up my jeans; was very glad I had to wear a kilt to school) and I still struggle to dress this body now (my waist is probably a 2, my thighs/butt are probably an 8 so I wear a 6 and hope it all stays in place? I love, but struggle with, jumpsuits because my top is an s/xs and my bottom is a l)

       Also I take no offense to the way this OP described her daughter. There are so many different types of being larger, it’s necessary to describe.

   12. Lands End is more generously cut, and they have a plus size range for girls which is fantastic as well. Old Navy also has a ton of options, including plus sizes. My experience is that you have to look at the shape of the garment more than the size.

   13. Ok word police – I have two kids and when they were young one was a string bean and one had more meat on their bones and yes it’s an issue finding clothes for a more solid kid. They sell regular and slim sizes (more in the girls dept for the slim sizes) but husky sizes – not my word – were hard to come by. This is actually a difficult problem when you’re just trying to clothe your kid. Y’all need to save your energy for actual problems.

       To OP – it’s been a while but I shopped online at Land’s End a lot, and then at one point I befriended the kids department manager at my nearby Nordstrom when my more stout kid found a pair of pants they liked there, both because they fit and because of some sensory issues, and this manager went above and beyond calling stores all over the country and having them send the pants to us even though the website said they were sold out. The next year when we needed a larger size, this same manager held back stock for us before putting it on the floor so we could have first pick.

       Pants were the hardest to fit because you can’t just keep sizing up in the waist without the length and the rise being way off. Tops were easier because my kid just wore a size up and rocked an oversized look. But again, Land’s End was helpful for things like sweaters and coats where the length was really key.

       Good luck and ignore the rest….

   14. I have an obese 10 year old boy (145 lbs, sigh) — we get husky sizes through Old Navy, Target (Cat & Jack), Walmart, Kohls. You may also want to look into petite adult sizes if possible.

2. I’m mid-career, early 40s, make healthy six figures in a fairly intense industry. And I am exhausted. I would be fine staying at this level for the rest of my career. I just don’t see the appeal of working harder for more money and prestige. I don’t need more money! And I don’t care about titles as long as I’m doing interesting, engaging work. What I want is less stress, less office politics, less of a sense that my very identity depends on the role at work I’m currently occupying.

   But everywhere I turn the messages are there to keep “hustling” (ugh), work harder, strive for the next big thing. I don’t want to! It’s not that I’m not ambitious. It’s just that the way I define success is not by working more. I want a full, well-rounded life with plenty of time to just BE. I don’t see that as being compatible with challenging management or VP roles where you sign away your life to a company.

   I also feel constant pressure to move into more challenging roles to “grow.” But I hate feeling overwhelmed and incompetent. I like taking on jobs I’m pretty sure I’ll succeed in. This seems to make me an outsider in my professional circles, where the messaging is always to go for the job even if you only fulfill 50% of the qualifications or even if you’re not sure you’ll succeed.

   It’s not that I want to lie on a beach for the rest of my days and tune out. What I really want to do is write, paint, teach myself graphic design, and learn a new instrument. I want to put the energy I’ve put into work into those things. I don’t know what I’m asking for here. Permission? Commiseration? Everything I want feels completely at odds with what society is telling me I should want.

   1. “less of a sense that my very identity depends on the role at work I’m currently occupying.” This isn’t a viable way to live, and it’s why people in their 40s or 50s start to question the pathway they’ve ended up on. They take a look around and start to identify other principles they want to guide their lives, rather than the “corporate hustle” prescription that they took on as young people.

      Total permission to escape the pressure trap that you’ve found yourself in. You don’t have to climb a ladder because people around you (in real life, social media, ted talks, conferences, books, journals, podcasts) think it’s the right thing to do. This is an adult form of peer pressure, and you’re allowed to say no to it. (It will require developing a different set of guiding principles than the ones you’ve been living by — probably without articulating them.)

   2. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting what you want. For me, my job is a job, not a career. It’s not super challenging, but it’s fun, and I like the people I work with, and for, but at 5 pm, I turn off my computer and don’t think about work until I turn it back on in the morning. I have weeks were I need to put in some extra hours, and weeks where the minutes drag, but it’s a job and it pays the grocery bill and keeps a roof over my head. And, honestly, that’s all I want. If I want to learn new things, I pick up a new hobby. If I want to lie on the beach and read, I make that happen. I really don’t need to hustle, or have a side hustle or answer emails after dinner.

      1. Same. Part of the reason I enjoy my job is because it’s not all-consuming and allows me to have a life. I’m a prosecutor so it’s not like it’s low stress but I enjoy the work and my colleagues. I don’t make enough money to work evenings and weekends so I simply don’t. My cases don’t suffer

   3. omg I could have written this post. I like being a respected and well-compensated individual contributor! When I look at the stress levels of the people above me, they are nuts. Pretty much the only reason I’d want to be promoted at this point is to avoid being managed by one of the other people theoretically in the ring.

      This is also at odds with expectations – like if you’re smart and motivated of course you’ll want to keep chasing higher titles and higher pay! But…. I like having my evenings and weekends and real vacations, something that seems to disappear at the next level up.

      1. Honestly, at this point, I DO want the higher title. Because my evenings and weekends are already being encroached upon; might as well get the higher comp that goes with it.

         1. Well, YMMV. The balance my current role gives me is pretty great. A big deal or two a year means longer hours for a few weeks but otherwise I’m unlikely to have an evening or weekend ruined.

      2. That not wanting to be managed by known individuals as the reason for throwing one’s hat in the ring for an unwanted promotion is so real.

         1. SO REAL.

            The downside is that now you have to manage those known individuals.

   4. Chesterton said that people go wrong when they love tools and use people, rather than use tools and love people. Likewise, the purpose of work is to make your life better, not the purpose of your life to make work better. You get one life; you’re successful; professionally, you’ve won; please enjoy it.

      1. This is such a great reply – thank you. OP, I took a voluntary demotion and moved to a different office and am so much happier overall. Like you, more money wasn’t motivating, and I was tired of feeling like life was passing me by while I toiled away in an office for people who didn’t value me. Now, I can leave work at the door, but still have the satisfaction of a job well done at the end of the day. I have my weekends, weeknights, and vacations back. It was extremely difficult to make this move – due to feeling like I would be looked down on for “failing” – but it was so, so worth it. Only you can live your one life.

   5. I hear you! I am in a similar situation at work where I am pulling the laboring ore for the entire firm as far as cleint development and billing is concerned. Now the manageing partner has told me it would be a good idea if I take an MBA in marketing to assist in cleint development. I told him I am a lawyer first, and do not need an MBA, but he says I can put it on my letterhead next to my JD and this will drive more busness for the firm.

      Does anyone know if I can get an MBA remotely without having to go to classes? I do not mind, but I cannot stomach having to do more Zoom calls. I am a very fast reader, and if all I have to do is read some books for each class then take an exam, I can handle that, but not sitting in classes on line listening to some schmoe tell me what I already know or read about before class. If anyone in the HIVE has suggestions for me, please let me know.

   6. I hear you. But in many industries, the “up or out” mentality is still strong. If you’re not climbing you’re expendable. I don’t know what to do about this.

      1. Is it really many industries, or just with many employers? I work in a well-comped area of finance, which is notorious for people who want to chase money, and I have always worked at the employers that are more lifestyle oriented. The jobs are out there, but you have to look in different places for them.

   7. I could’ve written all of this. I’ve made peace with knowing that I’m tapped out and unlikely to advance further in my career … because I don’t want to. The tradeoffs are not worth the ego stroke, nor would I even enjoy that type of work. I kinda think you’re hanging out with the wrong people if those around you can’t fathom this as a valid life choice.

   8. i think a lot more people probably feel the way that you do than they let on, but you’re right, the message, especially for high achievers, has always been to chase what’s next and so people like you often feel like they are doing something ‘wrong’ by not doing that. you have permission to be happy with where you are and not want to chase a higher title/more pay/prestige.

      1. Totally, if you actually said this out loud I’m sure lots of people would agree with you! In terms of your identity, only you get to decide that. I suggest connecting or reconnecting with people in different professional spheres like neighbors or old friends who pursued a different path or people you know through volunteering or hobbies – most people aren’t hard charging professionals, you have just set up your life in a way that your sphere is too homogenous.

   9. I totally agree. I think part of the pressure is a misguided attempt at retention, but I don’t want to work hard at all. I’m tired of having to learn new things every day because everything constantly changes in my technical field.

   10. I think most people reach a point in their career and stay there. It’s not unusual or bad and it doesn’t mean you’re lazy. I think we just have crazy expectations of ourselves as women in the post-Lean In era.

       1. How do you feel this is specific to women?

          1. It’s “girlboss” and “lean in” culture.

   11. Fwiw, I feel the same way and accidentally found myself many levels higher than I ever expected to be (SVP) and my peers all work all the time. I just don’t. I’ve always wanted balance and it’s so much more based on your personality than anything else. I don’t work on the weekend, neither does my team. I just don’t buy into the hustle culture and work as I see necessary. In a lot of ways,I have so much more control now.

       1. Agree that you can sometimes get more control by moving up. I think what convinced me to move up (I liked my job and was paid fairly) was the bosses I started getting. They kept getting younger and were very ambitious, yet didn’t understand how to lead the group. I didn’t expect them to know how to do my job, but I didn’t like leaving the strategy and decision-making to their (often short-sighted) inexperience. It was a great experience moving up.

   12. I find that staying at the same job for a very long time is at odds with what you’re describing as your goal. Once you are good at what you do as a subject matter expert, they just pile more and more work on your plate, with no further reward. Even if I’m not looking to move up in the org chart, every 4-6 years I still need to “reset” with a new job at a new company to get a fresh start at a lower base level. Staying put means my responsibilities grow exponentially while my pay stays the same. I justify the move by wanting to focus on a new sub-field or a new set of tech tools.

       1. Yes – this. It’s basically ‘no good deed goes unpunished’. You’re right about them piling the work on while not increasing compensation.

   13. Where are you feeling the pressure from? Can you silence those channels? (I’m imagining LinkedIn “influencers?” Women’s magazines?) It’s ok to opt out of women’s business “culture” – the go-getter-ness of it all drives me nuts, so I’ve opted out of it. I have a unicorn job in my niche field and I’ll do this job for the next 30 years if they’ll have me. I’m comfortable, I’m well paid, I’m good at it, and I have great work-life balance. It’s ok to be satisfied!

   14. 100% permission.I totally burned myself out at 28 by committing to my career, working the extra hours, etc. and now I just do not care. I want more money (I work in non-profits so I only make 55k), but I have no interest in ever working overtime again.

       Life is so much more than work; if you have a job you enjoy that pays you enough there is nothing wrong with coasting and pursuing other thing you like. Jobs shouldn’t be our only source of satisfaction or accomplishment; that’s what hobbies and rich personal lives are for!

   15. 100% commiseration and permission from me as I am exactly the same and I make it a point to model the other way to my junior colleagues. In my particular area of military law it is frequently assumed that you cannot be especially competent without being also very ambitious. I have zero desire to work twice the weekly hours and never take a true holiday again for an extra 10-20k a year.
       I love my job, the issues change all the time, it is challenging and interesting. My colleagues are great. My clients like me and are easy to work with. I make boat loads of money and have extensive leave. I turn my work phone off for four weeks every summer, two weeks at xmas and one week in March. I do not desire to manage other lawyers and be shackled to my phone. I enjoy my kids and workout twice a day. I jokingly say I am a Major for life but it’s true!

   16. OP, it is a pretty countercultural stance in American society to say “what I have is good enough.” That’s true for wealth, jobs, possessions…pretty much anything. In my experience, having a strong self-concept that doesn’t relate to your job is essential to mental health and happiness. I’m professionally successful, but when I think about how I identify myself, it’s mom, wife, Christian, friend, animal lover, reader, runner, resident of [my city]…I have to go a long way down the list before I get to my job title or even “lawyer.”

       That wasn’t the case when I was younger, but it is now. I’ve landed in a good job, pretty far up the ladder (I’m a direct report to someone who reports to our GC, so there are maybe 15 people at my level in my Fortune 50 company) – and I’m happy to stay there. On the weekends, I don’t think about work at all unless there’s a very big issue (like a major crisis/problem with an employee). Taking the step up to be a direct report to the GC would dramatically decrease my quality of life, and I don’t care enough about work to do that.

3. I am scheduled for my initial interview for an EEOC complaint I opened about a month ago. It is specifically about my salary being drastically lower than at least one comparable male colleague and more likely several. I have other, less-critical examples of unequal treatment of me compared to male colleagues as well. This has been a long time coming: I’ve done a lot of homework on my situation, I believe the facts are on my side and have data to back it up, and I did a lot of work to try to rectify the situation, over a period of years. I hope anyone reading and responding to this can respect that, to start with.
   With all that in mind, I would appreciate any advice for dealing with the EEOC: what to expect, what to know, how to prepare, how to behave during the interview. Obviously I hope to be calm and professional and full of information, but… any other nuance would be appreciated. I am going to have as much data on as many different facets of my employment that I think shows unfair treatment as I possibly can. Is there anything to know about how they like to receive that kind of data, or not? 

   1. No advice, but wishing you good luck!

      1. thanks : )

   2. You need to make sure you speak slowly and clearly, and not get emotional, because the EEOC workers are goverment employees who are there to do a job. They get paid no matter what, but you need to be very methodical, meaning you hand them your outline of issues, and then you go through it.

      Also, dress nicely, but do NOT wear jewelery or use alot of makeup. Most goverment employees are dowdy and do not appreciate other women who dress (or look) better then they do. So even if you can show that the men earn more, whatever $ you make will be likely alot more then they do, as most goverment intake reps are at a level where they don’t make more then $50K a year, at best, while most of us can make more then that every month.

      Good luck to you. It is still a man’s world unfortunately. But you have a good shot if you follow our advise. YAY!

   3. If you are allowed to have an attorney, bring an attorney. An attorney saying the exact same things you are saying (even if you are yourself an attorney) will bring more gravitas.

   4. Keep your statements to facts — you know this, but do your best to stay dispassionate and let them focus on what you are saying. Good luck!

   5. You should consult with an employment lawyer. If you haven’t done that, you are unprepared and should postpone the interview until you have done so.

      1. I have done that and her advice was to pursue an EEOC claim. I am in fact prepared and there is no reason for you to be nasty.

         1. I’m not being nasty. You asked for advice and didn’t mention having consulted a lawyer.

            1. Your comment about her being unprepared came across a bit harshly. Maybe it’s hard to determine tone in writing from a stranger; that is the way it reads.

            2. People are so quick to throw around “nasty” here for perfectly neutral comments. Whatever happened to assuming good intentions??

   6. Get a lawyer and prepare to negotiate your exit.

      1. This. An EEOC claim is usually pretty worthless Idk why your lawyer is advising it.

         1. Probably because there’s no there there.

            1. Or there’s an exhaustion of remedies issue but still your lawyer should be on top of telling you how to handle the interview.

         2. I’m sure the lawyer has a reason. For example, an EEOC charge is required before bringing a lawsuit in some instances. This is a very rude response to someone that is doing something difficult.

            1. This. Many states require you to file first with the EEOC or the state non-discrimination agency before pursuing a claim.

            2. No lawyer who’s going to take your case is going to let you exhaust remedies on your own, they’ll handle it for you.

            3. Thank you. I can’t believe the people who want to criticize the whole situation. The EEOC complaint is imperfect but as I said, I’ve done my homework. And will be happy to negotiate an exit, when the time is right. In the meantime, any advice on my specific question would be much appreciated.

            4. OMG, OP, nobody is criticizing you. You asked for advice and people are giving it.

   7. I agree you should consult with an employment attorney. And I want you to have realistic expectations. Going to the EEOC will most likely only get you a right-to-sue letter.; then you’ll have to find and pay an attorney to take your case. Very rarely does the EEOC decide to pursue a case on behalf of an employee, and when they do, they want a splashy headline. Also, be aware that you will likely be treated differently at work by management. Yes, retaliation is unlawful and they can’t retaliate. But if you think your management team is going to be happy that you went to the EEOC, they won’t. I respond to EEOC charges for my company and this is just how it goes.

      1. +1000

   8. I know you’ve consulted a lawyer, but a lawyer should absolutely represent you during the EEOC process, not just after. What you do during the EEOC process will limit your options after you get a right to sue letter. The attorney would also be better at negotiating a good settlement than you.

      Find a plaintiff’s side employment attorney in your state that takes cases on contingency ASAP. You will be much, much better off.

      1. Yes, I agree. Know that as a defense-side employment lawyer, I ALWAYS FOIA request the EEOC’s file and review the intake questionnaire + other documents for statements made by the claimant when they were not represented and regularly find statements that I can use to impeach the plaintiff. I think you want an employer who will hold your hand more than the one you consulted with.

   9. I defend these claims for a living. Plaintiffs who have legal representation receive much better offers. It is unlikely you will get much from an EEOC interview other than (hopefully) feeling heard. Not impossible – but fairly unlikely. If the attorney isn’t helping you draft your talking points, format or review your documentation – know you may not have a strong claim and that’s ok if you’re on with that. If you are surprised about your lawyer not doing this, and you’re interested, then you can directly ask them and/or seek other legal counsel. If you are not interested in legal representation at this stage, that is fine – just go in there and tell the truth.

4. A few days ago, someone commented that they’d tried weight-loss treatments that were somewhere between DIY diet/exercise and bariatric surgery. Would they be willing to share any details?

   1. I lost 30 pounds using Ozempic (in the states known as Wegovy, I believe) over approximately 6-7 months. It is a once-weekly injection. It is a similar drug to Saxxenda which is daily, and more expensive (at least here).

      Easy, no side effects for me. Cannot recommend highly enough. I exercise consistently and eat quite healthfully, and this has been a great tool for me.

      1. Can you just do that or is is prescribed for a thing (so you need to have the thing)? Like you can get Retin A for vanity and you pay out of pocket or for medical reasons (acne and insurance will cover). I’d be a vanity user.

         1. If you are overweight it is prescribed for that. If you aren’t overweight it won’t be prescribed.

         2. My family physician prescribed it to me for weight loss. My drug plan only covers if it is prescribed for diabetes. I suppose from that perspective I am a vanity user. However, I was SO TIRED of “failure” with diet and exercise that I finally chose this route.

            I’m only 7 months into using. I do not know what long term useage looks like as I still have a short way to go to a healthier weight for me, but would be prepared to remain on it as I understand diabetics do.

      2. Does the treatment end, ie you don’t receive injections anymore? How long has the weight loss been sustained so far?

   2. I’m not that poster, and I haven’t tried this exactly, but my experience taking Wellbutrin and LDN at the same time was positive, and that has always made me really curious about Contrave (which combines Wellbutrin and LDN for weight loss).

      1. What is LDN?

         1. Low dose naltrexone. My primary care doctor and my immunologist use it off-label for autoimmune patients since, even though it’s underresearched for that purpose, it’s well known to be cheap and safe. So that’s how I ended up on it and Wellbutrin at the same time. But Contrave for weight loss is an on-label indication.

      2. Based on BMI, I am obese, and I took Contrave for a few weeks as prescribed by my doctor, and it was amazing how suddenly I didn’t think about food at all. I finally “got” what eating to satiety meant, rather than eating to eat or to fill a void. Food was nice, but not exciting. I easily lost weight, without thinking about food (or lack of food). And then about four weeks in I developed huge hives all over my body and face due to a reaction to the Wellbutrin which, for those who have the sensitivity, takes a few weeks to kick in. I had to get a series of steroid shots and had to come off the prescription. If I hadn’t had the reaction, I absolutely would have

5. based on yesterday (and the previous day)’s college discussion, I’m curious what you would advise this person to do:

   college options:
   Lafayette College (PA)- 50% merit scholarship
   Drexel (PA)- 80% merit scholarship
   Rutgers (NJ)- free tuition
   UConn (CT)- free tuition
   UVA- full freight
   Villanova- full freight
   URichmond- full freight

   Kid is an undecided major leaning towards a science but not medical school. Would likely get a non-professional (non-law non- MD) grad degree eventually, maybe business. Lives in NJ.

   Parents will pay 50% of the cost of school and the kid would take loans for the rest.

   What would you advise and why?

   1. Some of these are very different schools – Layfayette and Drexel would be a totally different experience from UConn or UVA. I would narrow by category – small or large school? Geography (Rutgers and UConn are close, UVA a bit further)? Has the person gone on a tour to get the vibe of each school?

      I would not base a decision on major for someone relatively undecided. All of these schools would allow for a post grad degree if the person is a good student.

      My parents made the same deal with me and I chose a school that gave me a partial scholarship instead of my dream school that gave me no scholarship. Absolutely no regrets – I loved my experience and I would be a different person if I’d made a different choice. It’s a hugely important decision but you really have no way of knowing which is “better” at a certain point.

      1. UCONN grad here: Would recommend either UCONN or Rutgers because these two universities have very well established programs in science and engineering research. The student would for example be able to get experience as an undergraduate researcher if they wanted. That makes a huge difference when trying to get into good graduate programs. For social life, Rutgers might be better than UCONN. The main campus at UCONN is in a rural location but maybe as an undergrad one could get involved in clubs etc. I went as a grad student so had a different experience.

         1. Unless your kid is willing and able to advocate for themselves, or is in a program (honors, 1st gen, etc) that gets them individual attention, I recommend staying away from the big R1s as an undergrad. It’s SO hard to be more than just a number/revenue unit as an undergrad, but they’re great for grad school, which is really what their primary focus is anyway.

            Responding to comment above copied from a poster below: this is also true. But UCONN has graduate teaching assistants for most science courses. We had to pass an English test to teach in case that there is a concern since some teaching assistants are foreign. In an R1 the student really has to take charge of their college career but in my experience at UCONN, the Professors do care, and so do many of the teaching assistants. For reference I was in the Chemistry grad program. If they are in a special program e.g. honors, even better, leverage all the resources available. Do this and they should be able to get into a good grad program that will not require them to pay anything. If they choose to work instead take advantage of school connections, career networking events to get internships and jobs later on. I would assume Rutgers has similar programs but of course do your research before making a decision.

   2. So my thoughts generally – it is only worth paying full freight tuition if it’s a place with decent enough name recognition to generate an ROI. Specifically:

      Lafayette College (PA)- 50% merit scholarship
      (Snobby perhaps but I have never heard of this school and I live presumably nearby… no.)

      Drexel (PA)- 80% merit scholarship
      (Good reputation in Philly, solid choice esp with scholarship!!)

      Rutgers (NJ)- free tuition
      (Good reputation in Philly, solid choice esp with free tuition!!)

      UConn (CT)- free tuition
      (No idea but perhaps a better choice than Rutgers if kid wants to end up in New England)

      UVA- full freight
      (Great reputation esp. up and down the east coast, of the full freight options the only one I’d do)

      Villanova- full freight
      (not worth paying full freight for; big network in Philly area but most friends who attended are… not realizing an ROI)

      URichmond- full freight
      (Too regional to pay full tuition)

      1. Lafayette is small, but it’s a Patriot League school which are generally well-regarded.

         1. +1. I’d make the decision about Lafayette based on whether the student wants a very small school, and whether the student would want to live in or near Easton, PA.

      2. Colleges in the Lehigh Valley are tiny powerhouses. Lehigh is highly regarded for engineering, and Muhlenberg has a ridiculously high acceptance rate for med school. You not hearing of Lafayette means very little.

   3. Rutgers or UConn. Lafayette Drexel Villanova and Richmond all will not give as good an education as Rutgers. UVA if kid is super passionate about it and understands the loans.

   4. 1. It’s October. The students has not received these offers yet; she is merely in the running for them. Do not ask for hypotheticals.
      2. A full ride at UVA is for a kid who is a straight-faced candidate at schools like Duke. Has she applied to all of these places? What would her financial aid from a top school look like?
      3. Parents are paying 50% of WHAT? If she gets a full tuition scholarship, they pay half of room and board or they pay all of it?
      4. Even if this were the beginning of April and she had these offers, the information presented is completely unhelpful. I have no desire to research what a 80% merit scholarship at Lafayette versus a full ride at UVA (tuition, or tuition + fees + room and board?) means. You need the post-scholarship COA in order to make a decision.

      1. Edited: by “full freight,” do you mean the student pays the full COA? Is there a reason that she’s not eligible for any type of need-based or merit-based aid? Has her family used the Net Price Calculators on the website to determine this? If they are sufficiently wealthy that Richmond expects them to pay the entire cost ($300,000 total for four years), is there any way they would funnel money to her grad school if she saves them on undergrad?

      2. Ohh thanks for catching this.

         Yes OP come on srsly? We are all happy to give advice but if this isn’t real please stop.

         1. Good catch. OP, please the therapy recommendation from when you posted yesterday seriously. This is getting really out of hand and I am concerned for you.

            1. I suspect that it’s a different person, based on the location (NJ versus CA, with a heavy knowledge of east coast schools) and syntax.

               However, it is completely counterproductive at this point. The kid is not guaranteed admission or scholarships; the kid should cast a broad net. Admissions can be very random. Schools like Richmond might come through with need-based aid. Visiting campuses will give the student a better idea of what s/he likes.

               Most importantly, college is a big decision that comes with a huge price tag, that other people (admissions committee) are in control of. Do. Not. Get. On. The. Emotional Roller Coaster. What’s the goal here – “Lafayette’s 50% scholarship is PERFECT for you!!! [Spends six months getting kid jazzed about Lafayette.] Sorry that they didn’t come through with any merit aid – guess you’re going to Rutgers.”

            2. This is not the same person, it’s on the opposite coast. Everyone’s seniors are worrying about college at the same time of year, it’s kinda how that works.

            3. No, I think it’s the same person with details changed. This has been going on for at least two years now. Rutgers always appears in the East Coast version of the story (literally search the archives if you don’t believe me). It’s so odd.

            4. Hi there- I’m the OP of this post and I’m not sure it even matters, but I’m a totally different person. My kids are tiny. This is my niece and the decision was already made. I asked the question because there was such hotly debated advice yesterday about paying for schools (don’t take out loans! only take out loans for X type of college, etc) that I was curious what kind of advice she’d have gotten if she asked here. And the responses were super varied. Some people suggested Drexel, some the free state schools, some paying for UVA.

               She ended up going to Lafayette because she thought she could see herself graduating from there and it wasn’t as expensive as Villanova. She liked Villanova better from a fit standpoint, but not at more than 2x. Since she went last year and things were crazy with COVID, she never really got attached to the Lafayette campus. She got great grades and ended up applying to transfer–and got into the school she wanted to go to all along (at full price, so will be taking on a lot of loans, but she has enough credits to graduate early if she wants to, and she saved $30k on her freshman year).

               For a kiddo who had her entire senior year and most of her freshman year of college altered by high school, she’s very happy.

      3. Do many schools not do offers that early? I think I had already accepted my undergrad by October, though granted that was some time ago.

         1. Yeah I don’t know about these schools in particular but rolling admissions is or at least was a thing. I had a full ride to my local State U in October (in 2003, fwiw).

         2. Most private schools do a set schedule: early admission (early decision or early action) is due in November, decisions in December; regular admission due January, decisions in March or April.

            Moreover, if you apply ED, you can usually only apply ED to one school (“binding”) and are required to go if you are accepted. IIRC, Harvard does a modified ED, wherein you can apply ED to Harvard but keep open the option of applying to your state school for the scholarship money. Early Action allows a student to apply to multiple schools and compare financial aid offers.

            Lafayette’s website says that they issue ED I (they do two rounds of ED, which is not uncommon) on 15 December, which is more than two months away. A student who applies ED must sign the “Early Decision Agreement Form,” which binds the student to attend if admitted.

            Trust me, this post is nonsense.

            1. Just curious — the kid signs for ED. What if the parents refuse to write the check (or can’t)? At worse, the school just puts you on a blacklist for forever, but this has to also just happen (parental job loss, divorce, lots of twin math nowdays). And a chunk, surely declining with red-shirting, of high school seniors aren’t even 18, so how could their signature on anything be binding?

            2. She already said it was a hypothetical about a kid who is already in college but nice try “catching” her.

            3. Hi Anon at 10:43, time stamps are your friend. She ‘fessed up after I repeatedly pointed out that this isn’t a decision being faced now.

            4. Hi, if you’re going to be snarky about time stamps, you should learn to read them better. The post of yours I was replying to was at 10:33. She explained the situation at 10:29.

            5. What is the answer on early decision? How to colleges get kids or families on the hook (like without even being up-front with price / cost)? Now I’m curious about this (didn’t apply ED b/c I was just slow on getting around to it and wasn’t aware that there might be an aid advantage to doing so, maybe this varies by college).

            6. Anon at 11:12, I first posted at 9:43 am about this not being a decision that a student is facing now, and followed up with several replies. I started typing my 10:33 am reply without having seen the one that posted at 10:29, because I responded to a work email in between and the replies do not automatically refresh on screen.

               Given the number of people who thought this was an actual question, I felt it important to point out that it obviously is not. While I am a volunteer, not an employee, of my alma mater’s admissions team, I am the Chair for my region and am very well-versed in admissions issues, including timelines, ED, EA, and financial aid. While we do not discuss other schools with applicants, I make it my job to understand the landscape at comparable universities and those a step or two down; the latter lure our applicants away with offers of substantial merit aid.

            7. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2016-10-24/what-happens-to-students-who-back-out-of-early-decision-offers

               Back in the day, the FAFSA listed the colleges you applied to. A college could simply call up the other listed institutions and inform them that the student was admitted binding ED at their university and rejected the offer (without going through whatever financial aid process they have).

               In reality, guidance counselors are the ones who enforce this. The school doesn’t want to get a bad reputation amongst universities for playing games with ED, so they will push the student to either accept or go through whatever process is necessary to demonstrate that they need more aid.

         3. October is before most application deadlines! And early decision is binding at a lot of schools, you wouldn’t be applying to half a dozen.

      4. OP here. You are reading too much into my question. Student has actually already made the decision and is a sophomore. Wondering what the advice would have been.

         1. What did they end up choosing?

         2. Where did they go?

         3. I am not “reading too much into [your] question.” You posted a BS question and got called out on it.

            1. Who legitimately cares if it’s BS in your opinion or not?! I think it’s an interesting scenario to consider. JC, people. Even if it was a hypothetical, it’s an interesting question and may help someone through decision making.

            2. The OP could have very easily said, “In light of the discussion, my son faced had these options and chose X. What would you have done?”

         4. Oh my goodness why? Such a stupid waste

            1. Are you really that offended that the Op isn’t actually following your advice? Most of this advice wouldn’t be followed anyway even if the Op’s kid was still deciding, I assume it’s just for fun.

         5. If the student is a sophomore, what is the purpose of getting a bunch of strangers to weigh in?

   5. What is “full freight”?

      1. “Full freight” = have to pay 100% out of pocket, not “full ride” aka no cost.

   6. Either UVA or Villanova — I’m a big believer in minimizing undergrad debt. Both schools have plenty of programs in case Kid changes their mind and wants to do something else, but also have well-funded science programs to provide broad access. URichmond is a solid choice but UVA and Villanova will have better alumni networks and more options.

      1. Reading comprehension fail, I interpreted it to be full freight scholarships (room and board) when clearly that is not the case, sorry!
         I therefore revise my answer to one of the full-scholarship options. Probably Rutgers because the location will open up more opportunities for semester internships, but worth visiting Rutgers and UConn and then deciding.

         1. I didn’t think that there were full-friend scholarships (just tuition scholarships). FWIW, my full-tuition scholarship at a school in the NEUS was still so expensive when you factored in living expenses that I declined it to go to a cheap state school as an OOS student and my parents pretty much broke even in year 1 and then I was an RA in years 2-4, so every dollar of expense matters.

            1. Back in 2004-2005 I got a full-ride offer that was truly full-ride – tuition, room and board and fees. It was from Alabama; I was told they had an interest in bringing up their average incoming test scores. I ultimately went to a public in-state school with tuition paid.

            2. There are definitely full rides that include room and board. I got several offers like that. But you have to be stepping several levels down from the best school you can get into. E.g., if you’re Harvard caliber you may get a full ride to a mediocre public university. But a Harvard-caliber person is not likely to get a full ride to Wash U or Michigan, although they might get significant tuition assistance at those schools.

            3. Maybe undergrad is different, but I got several law school offers that included room and board as well as tuition. My home state public law school (ranked in the top 25) actually offered to pay me a stipend to go there, as well as covering tuition, fees and room and board. I didn’t want to move back to the Midwest so I turned it down in favor of a partial tuition scholarship at a private school with a similar ranking. But then the private school raised tuition dramatically and my 80% tuition scholarship turned into a 50% tuition scholarship. My parents helped a little, but I still graduated with over $30k in loans. The debt is long since paid off but I’m still kicking myself about how dumb that decision was!

      2. Those are options where they have to pay the full cost of attendance.

   7. Rutgers or Drexel or UConn and the parents put what they would have put towards college towards grad school. UVA is definitely better than those schools but not worth paying full freight, especially if the parents can only pay half.

      1. The middle path, perhaps not fun to do, but you are an alumni of a school for a lot longer than you are at the school, is to consider 2 years of Rutgers with an eye towards transferring if you truly hate it and having the cost balance out a bit.

         1. editing not to say a certain word:

            The middle path, perhaps not fun to do, but you are an alumni of a school for a lot longer than you are at the school, is to consider 2 years of Rutgers with an eye towards [switching to another school of higher rank / better name] if you truly hate it and having the cost balance out a bit.

      2. This. I went to Rutgers for both undergrad and law school. I did well for myself and work in a legal adjacent field making 6 figures. You don’t need to go to a fancy private school to do well.

   8. I went to Lehigh, so I can’t condone Lafayette :)

      Villanova is 100% not worth full freight. I don’t think Richmond is either. UVA’s the best school on this list, but not so much better that it makes it worth paying full out of state tuition when there are cheaper options.

      I think it partially depends on what kind of experience the kid wants- I have a few friends who went to Drexel and really liked it, and the co-op program is great, but I would have hated a city school. Lafayette is small, but definitely has the typical college campus feel, which I preferred and prioritized. Also what size school would they want? The experience at a school the size of Lafayette vs a larger state school will be very different. It also depends on where the kid wants to live after college – if they want to stay in Jersey then Rutgers will have a robust alumni network; if they want DC then UVA has the upper hand there, etc.

      If it were me, I’d choose Rutgers, UConn, or Drexel (solely because of the co-op program).

      1. Interesting. I fly into LVA a lot and thought that Lehigh / Lafayette / Muhlenburg were largely fungible schools (maybe with Lehigh having an edge for a kid who wanted engineering). I love wandering through the campuses and the small-school feel in a place where winter is not Syracuse- or Buffalo-level awful. But as a student they feel very different?

         1. Muhlenberg basically funnels directly into Johns Hopkins. The acceptance rate for med school from MC is about 95%.

            1. How is this possible? Or is it just how the #s shake out recently? I figured Muhlenburg would skew liberal arts, not pre-med, so IDK what the sample size is. FWIW, the Muhlenburg people I know are all lawyers.

            2. It’s called liberal arts, but their bread and butter is pre-med. They sell it as a “whole degree” by making you take a bunch of religion and language classes, too.

               My husband got his BS there in the 90s, and I took a couple classes there as a HS senior through an outreach program. They are very clear about it being rigorous beyond the norm–what I learned in gen chem 101 was comparable to gen chem 101 AND 102 at the state school I attended later. It’s rare to see a professor with “only” a master’s degree there; my husband took biology classes from the guy who first developed the worm genome.

               All our friends who went there are medical specialists: pediatric oncologist, heart surgeon, two anaesthesiologists, and a plastic surgeon for cleft palate-type issues.

         2. They’re pretty different – size, what they specialize in, social scene, etc. The campuses are all beautiful, but there’s more to a school than that! but, I think Anon 9:45s comment about not condoning Lafayette is because Lehigh and Lafayette are rivals, not because they’re super different or anything.

      2. Interesting. I fly into LVA a lot and thought that Lehigh / Lafayette / Muhlenburg were largely fungible schools (maybe with Lehigh having an edge for a kid who wanted engineering). I love wandering through the campuses and the small-school feel in a place where winter is not Syracuse- or Buffalo-level awful. But as a student they feel very different??

   9. None of those are worth paying full freight for (I’ve never even heard of a few) they’re not big names that pay for themselves so I’d pick the cheapest considering all in costs including living expenses.

   10. it is only October and the kid already has all of these options? I work in higher ed and I would say not Lafayette, URichmond or Villanova because I don’t think those schools will open any additional doors, unless the kid really wants to live in Richmond after college.
       – Drexel has a great co-op program, but based on what I know tends to me more engineering focused. Also, does the kid want to live in a city or want more of a campus?
       – UVA is a fantastic school and does open up some doors that the others don’t in terms of the types of employers that recruit there.
       – for UConn vs. Rutgers, I think Rutgers has a good honors program, but I don’t know enough about either school to advise.
       I’d narrow it down to those 4 (though UVA probably doesn’t make sense unless kid REALLY loves it and has some goal that can’t be achieved at the others), and then look more closely at the programs, the campus environments, and the career statistics.

       1. No, kid had these options a couple years ago…read further along where OP acknowledges kid already attended Lafayette for 1 year and then transferred to Cornell. OP is wasting everyone’s time.

   11. I would advise letting the kid decide where to go.

       If they haven’t visited all of these campuses, they should do that. Kid will probably narrow the list very quickly after that. Every school has a different feel, and every kid is looking for something different. Do they want to be in a big city? Small college town? Suburban campus? What size of school will they like the best? Do they love winter? Hate winter? College means being outside a lot more than high school. There’s a big difference in weather from Connecticut and Richmond.

       They should also weigh the rigor of the programs they might enter. Are they academically and emotionally prepared for it? With all those scholarships, I’m assuming this is a rather academically accomplished kid. Are they prepared for not being the smartest person in the room anymore, and perhaps needing a tutor for some classes at some schools? At what schools are they more likely to be average than cream of the crop? What are their other options if they decide after a year of the intense science focus that they don’t really want to do that? Are they good with those other options?

       They should have all the info about financial aid. How much in loans would the kid be responsible for after graduation? Do they understand the kind of payments they will need to make and for how long?

       As long as the kid is considering all of this and has all of the information, let them decide.

       1. It’s very hard for a 17 year old (even a bright, mature one) to appreciate the lifelong burden of hundreds of thousands in loan debt. I don’t think OP is wrong to want to steer kid to one or more options. Kid will pick a school based on what campus they like and that isn’t the best way to optimize college choices.

          1. I think that they could rank choices “ideally” and then with $ factored in negatively weighting for net cost * 4 years (or 2 and 2 if planning to switch schools for where you graduate from) . See if there is any overlap. Discuss. Discuss again.

             1. Agreed, it can be a discussion. But mom wanting to make sure kid chooses a school with a good ROI is the least concerning part of OP’s post to me. My parents paid full tuition at an Ivy for me and in hindsight I wish I’d taken a full ride at a lower ranked school and had the money for grad school. It’s really hard for most 17 year olds to think even 4-5 years into the future so I think parental guidance in that direction is not inappropriate.

             2. FYI: there’s a lot less merit aid for transfer students than for those who start as freshman.

             3. Right, but if you’d be paying all $ for 4 years, paying for 2 is still better and no one cares about anything but which school issues your degree. But I’d only turn down free if I had truly been miserable there.

             4. Except that four years with merit aid can be cheaper than 2 full cost.

          2. If “campus” just means facilities, I agree to an extent. But college students can really struggle if they don’t get along with other students or can’t find support among faculty and staff. Transferring can be stressful and make it hard to graduate on time. Staying while completely miserable can also make it hard to graduate on time (and burn out can be especially devastating for students who were always ambitious and high achieving). And the worst kind of college debt to carry is debt that didn’t actually result in a degree. So I wouldn’t pick either the absolute cheapest or the highest prestige school if it seemed like a poor fit.

             1. I think about it with one of my kids who may be college material in the right college. And I’ve been pleased with some options that may really be suitable — both very small, both really beloved by some close friends or their kids: University of South Carolina at Beaufort and College of Charleston. Yes, we are writing off ever working for a big consulting company like Bain or Yale Law in the future. But we are also basically aiming to write in everything else that they may want to do and be able to do if they can launch themselves through the next 4-5 years.

             2. Why are you writing off Yale Law? Law school admissions is about GPA and LSAT. Maybe Yale would not take a 4.0 CofC kid with a 179 LSAT, but Harvard certainly would.

             3. Undergrad school is definitely a factor in law school admissions. A prestigious undergrad means you can have a lower GPA (e.g., coming from MIT it’s not hard to get into a top law school with a B average. The same cannot be said of state schools.)

                But you’re right that a 4.0 (on a 4.0 scale) GPA and 179 from most schools would make you very competitive for Harvard and Yale.

             4. I think that you write off Yale Law just b/c that’s not likely, esp. for a kid described as not necessarily college-bound. But also for the rest of us.

                Also, some businesses only recruit locally or from certain-caliber schools (or grad programs), so many doors won’t be easily opened from some schools. And that is fine! If you want to be an art teacher, go to a school that you are happy at that won’t leave you drowning in debt. If you want to be in accounting, know that local recruiting is a thing, so you will likely work either where you go to school or where you are from or the nearest city to either. Ditto nursing and most other jobs.

   12. I’d pick Drexel or Rutgers, and explore majors more to decide. I haven’t really heard much about Lafayette and I’m from Philly too so may as well pick a school that is more well known. Villanova is super expensive so I wouldn’t bother unless the parents are rich. Uconn I know nothing about but if the kid wants to stay in NJ/PA I’d go with a local school for a better network. UVA also has a great reputation but not sure it’s with the cash unless again, the parents are rich.

       1. VA person (but not UVA person) and VA schools are shockingly expensive for OOS students. Like Harvard-level expensive. If kid can get into UVA from NJ, especially if kid is a girl, I’d try harder to get into a still better school that might give better scholarships (OOS scholarships at VA schools are tragically stingy, so often OOS admits to go to smaller private schools like W&L where they get a full ride).

          1. Or if kid is set on UVA, do a gap year, be independent, and get residency.

             1. I was out of state at a VA public school and the residency requirement (at least when I went was 3 years)

             2. Usually, you have to be 24 or over to get in-state tuition at Virginia state schools based on your domicile, when your domicile is different from your parents’ domicile.

             3. Wow — VA is being super-stingy to kids with OOS parents.

                Did they also do away with doing ROTC letting you qualify for in-state tuition?

             4. That’s a pretty common residency requirement actually. My Midwest state is the same. Schools want to avoid exactly what you are describing, which is not in-state residency. Too bad so sad you can’t cheat, but you’re clearly not an in-state resident if the parents paying the tuition bill live out of state.

             5. What do kids with divorced parents who refuse to pay for college do? I know one of my cousin’s kids who is looking to move in with my parents for a year and work and will then be borrowing all for college (but hopefully borrowing at in-state rates).

                I get that there is “cheating” but there area people for whom this matters a lot to their life’s trajectory and their parents aren’t their fault (see, also, whether DACA kids can get treated as in-state vs OOS).

             6. Kids with divorced parents often get screwed financially for college.

                If your asking about residency, I think it’s pretty rare for divorced parents to live in different states. It’s hard for a divorced parent to move out of state unless they relinquish custody and if they do that then they’re probably irrelevant as far as college stuff goes.

             7. I live near the border of 2 states and can confirm that there are often parents on each side (VA/MD; sibling lives in Charlotte, which is practically on the SC border even though in NC). Philly suburbs are on both sides of the Delaware. Maybe rarer elsewhere except for Memphis (Arkansas is right to the west). Sure I’m missing other places (NYC — many NJ residents and some in CT).

             8. I don’t know the legalities of how this works in terms of relinquishing custody, but I don’t think that “not bothering to spend time with their kids” absolved any of my friends’ uninvolved divorced parents from having to report income to FAFSA, whether in state or out of state.

             9. I thought FAFSA was just looking for the mom’s $ if mom is the typically custodial divorced parent. Private schools look at dad’s $, too.

                This is the one break my family is benefiting from — Dad is $$$ but has a new family now and refuses to support post-18 the kids who are still angry at him. Mom is an hourly worker who maybe makes $15/hour with a master’s degree after returning to work.

             10. “What do kids with divorced parents who refuse to pay for college do?”

                 Not helpful for kids in this situation, merely helpful for those who are divorcing: parents can often stipulate college expenses in a divorce agreement or even a prenuptial agreement, even if a court does not mandate it.

                 The kids go to their in-state school. They find a degree in an out-of-state consortium school that is not offered in their own state to enable them to get in-state tuition in a different state. They hustle for merit scholarships. They go to a lower-ranked undergrad, work, and knock it out of the park for grad school.
                 Unfortunately, financial aid is limited and no school wants to open Pandora’s box of “as parents, we don’t feeeel like paying,” so they have to assume parental willingness to contribute.

             11. 10:16, VA is not “being stingy” to out-of-state kids. It’s strategically trying to maximize tuition revenue. All state schools do this. They also do this by charging an arm and a leg for professional school tuition, even in-state.

   13. Unless your kid is willing and able to advocate for themselves, or is in a program (honors, 1st gen, etc) that gets them individual attention, I recommend staying away from the big R1s as an undergrad. It’s SO hard to be more than just a number/revenue unit as an undergrad, but they’re great for grad school, which is really what their primary focus is anyway.

       1. I kind of fear that this is spot-on.

          NJ person here. If Douglass College is still a thing (it was the all-women part of Rutgers), it seemed to make such a giant school feel much smaller and that you weren’t just a revenue unit. Not sure if that is an option here (you could take classes at any New Brunswick location, but it was where you were housed and it also felt like you were nurtured a bit more). Also: less vomit on weekends ;)

       2. 100% agree. Also that name recognition doesn’t mean that the education will be great, and lack of name recognition doesn’t mean a bad education. Muhlenburg was mentioned above – I’m sure many here have not heard of it, but a former coworker graduated from there and she was hands down the best coworker/employee I’ve ever had. I went to a smaller school that once again, has less name recognition, and basically if you had never left the country and/or did not have the means to study abroad, it was 100% covered by the school (tuition while away, room/board, flights to/from the program, EVERYTHING).

          1. I’ve heard of Muhlenburg and it’s my understanding that it’s a fantastic school. For reference, almost-lifelong Bostonian.

   14. I’d recommend checking out the times higher education rankings of schools and see where those fall. I’m not American, but there was a while I was responsible for reviewing and screening resumes of international applicants (often American) and I’d use that website to help me decipher the likely quality of education a candidate recieved. Among my peers that seemed to be a common method.

   15. These constant comments about paying for college are getting really annoying. Please get therapy!

       1. I think that it’s a big concern of the few working moms who stick with working FT as their kids get older. Like the moms board asking about sleep and morning sickness.

          1. No, it’s beyond that. I’m not sure if it’s OCD or what, but posting the exact same hypothetical with minor details tweaked OVER AND OVER AND OVER is not par for the course here. OP, PLEASE consider some therapy or a visit to your PCP. I won’t say it again after this and I’m not trying to badger you, but I really think there’s something going on here and that you could possibly benefit from help this site cannot provide. I wish you the best, truly, and wouldn’t want to not say something if there’s a cry for help this many times.

             1. Eh, and then there are the repeated posts about recipes. I get that college warrants anxiety (on the bigger kids; bigger problems theory) and college can easily be a choice with a half-million dollar consequence (like more than my retirement fund will ever likely be). Getting your kids launched is a BFD (after moms have slogged through pregnancy, nursing, returning to work, navigating work as a parent, pandemic school, etc., etc. OMFG they are not done yet no wonder none of my friends have or want kids). OTOH, people can’t figure out dinner and need to crowd-source. I just give up with the interwebs some days.

             2. Between this and the word police above, every single person just needs therapy or to chill. So hard to avoid the circular firing squad and vicious girl-fighting. Give me some sports ball, pls.

             3. Heck, some people post on the mom’s board and they aren’t even pregnant. And yet they seem to be treated with grace: a question is a question.

   16. It’s interesting to me that a kid who could get into UVA from NJ would not get any merit aid at UofR. Has it really risen in the rankings? I had friends go there in the past b/c they had been quite generous with aid (and VA schools generally were not generous with merit at the UVA level).

   17. My brother went to Nova – great reputation but very expensive for the value – grads getting similar jobs and ROI that went to West Chester (state uni). Drexel has the best co-op program in the country, ROI is extremely good due to practical work experience and that 80 percent scholarship is impressive…but kid has to be interested in going into a co-op program that gets you working in your field right away…it also has a very urban campus that my son did not like. He opted for Duquesne in Pittsburgh and now has a great job in Philly. For your science major Rutgers and Drexel would be excellent. Rutgers has the bigger uni experience.

   18. OP here. These responses were super interesting and the exact spectrum of debate that happened when the kid was making her choice.

       I literally said “you got into UVA but no money from UofR? Really?”

       If anyone is super invested in this, she ended up at Lafayette, then ended up transferring to Cornell after a year (she had been waitlisted there and it was her #1).

       And for the posters asking about cost, the tuition was all about the same so I didn’t bother posting. The state schools were lower but free. The rest were (are) $$$ Private and the kid didn’t qualify for aid.

       1. Excellent choice! :)

       2. Cost of living can vary dramatically:
          Harvard’s fees are $4,500, and room and board are $19,000. (I know Harvard does need-based aid, but roll with the example from an expensive city.)
          Boston University: $17k for room and board, $1,200 for fees.
          NYU: $20,000 for room and board.

          UVA, which is located in a more rural location? Fees, room, and board are $12,000.

          Multiply that $8,000 difference by four years, and you have a substantial difference in loans. That could, in fact, be the difference between having loans and not having loans.

          1. This was me. I am assuming that being an RA at NYU doesn’t yet you 20K in savings (or even 10K) but at my state’s flagship U, it get you free room PLUS a small stipend. So SEC football school for the win :)

       3. Ummm, so you’re posting the kids options as though she is making choice of where to go in 2022 and asking for input, but in reality she already went to Lafayette for a year and has since transferred to Cornell? Why are you wasting everyone’s time with these questions? Living in the past? Second guessing by polling strangers? This is weird.

   19. NOT Richmond. Signed, a recent-ish grad (within 10 years) who appreciates her college experience for all it offered but NFW would I pick it again. It’s about as painfully insular as one could imagine.

       BTW, disagree with all commentary regarding Richmond being too regional. Huge network up to NYC, through DC. Some even in Boston. It’s not just a southern school. Still, stay away. There’s way better bang for your buck and better experiences to be had.

   20. I would go to Rutgers or UConn for free. I’m assuming if the kid got full tuition, kid would also be part of some kind of honors program at those schools. That usually has its own benefits, like special housing, special classes, travel opportunities, etc.

       But I am always team “go to the free school” unless it’s unaccredited or poorly resourced.

   21. I would pick whichever one has the best weather.

       1. +1

       2. I went to a rigorous school in the north on the side of a mountain. In college I always joked that my mistake was not going to an easy school in the south with no hills.

          1. Dude, I went to school in southern California and have always said everyone who can, should. Especially after a childhood of of Chicago winters.

   22. UVa or Villanova full freight.

       1. Oh never mind! I interpreted full freight as full ride.

6. I moved recently and have a small room to furnish as my office. It’s 10×11, carpeted, with one window. Im thinking about an L-shaped desk under the window and a bookcase behind me (for a nice zoom background!). But having a big cozy armchair might be nice as well?

   Where would you buy new office furniture if you started from scratch? What would you get? I am open to different price points and looking for inspiration.

   1. A bookcase is a dust collector. I have my own office at home about that size and recommend the L desk you’re thinking of. I have a small love seat in mine that I love for reading and taking calls on. Also recommend glamming up the space – wallpaper and a cool light fixture to your taste.

      1. Haha some of us have actual books. Bookcases are functional.

   2. I love my sit stand desk (Humanscale Float from Room and Board but there are others!) A nice cozy chair is good. Do you want a white board or anything like that? Think about lighting as you make your floor plan – do you need a table lamp, floor lamp, better overheads, etc. Also I like a nice plant.

   3. I redid my home office last year. Roughly the same size room, windows on two walls. I got a big L-shaped/corner desk from Uplift (standing desk when I want it to be), with two monitors, a camera, a speaker, and a Steelcase desk chair. The desk is in the corner with the two windows, with a filing cabinet next to it. I love having a huge desk and ergonomic setup.

      I put a bookshelf behind me that had a semi unique shape, and get many compliments on my Zoom background. I do a lot of work in a particular region, and put books and things I’ve picked up from traveling. Also a few plants.

      I debated the comfy armchair too, but the space would have been too cramped with one; my room is more rectangular than yours. I’m happy with the current set up- if I need to sit in a comfy chair, I just go to my couch in another room (but also live by myself, so that may not work for everyone).

   4. Just an idea, but if you want the flexibility of having an extra bed for guests, take a look at twin futons. They have several that fold up on both sides to make a comfy armchair set up, but fold out to a twin bed if you need the space occasionally. I’ll post a link below for an idea.

      1. More sleek: https://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Futons/2026/subcat.html?featuredproduct=27618119&featuredoption=47469995&ci_sku=32771885-000-003&cnc=US&cid=309174&type=&targetid=pla-1391827518199&track=pspla&gclid=CjwKCAjwtfqKBhBoEiwAZuesiHsEjETkLLOaDNETtydF4-0Bpbryb6JeoKtULrPDx1l0YE0prkyDWRoCZC8QAvD_BwE
         https://www.hayneedle.com/product/betterhomesgardensbhgportersleepersofa.cfm?source=pla&kwid=Sofas%20level05&tid=AMW1349-2&adtype=pla&kw=&g_acctid=933-667-2123&g_campaign=Hero%20SKUs%20-%20PLA&g_campaignid=12351109839&g_adgroupid=123519396390&g_adid=507665067324&g_keyword=&g_keywordid=pla-1206758428079&g_adtype=pla&g_merchantid=5643243&g_productchannel=online&g_productid=AMW1349-2&g_partition=1206758428079&g_network=g&g_ifproduct=product&g_ifcreative=&gclid=CjwKCAjwtfqKBhBoEiwAZuesiELeU8z2FgVG12cgXgx0ha3rLpvi_rn_cSlg7cPi9qrSm6AXS0kyIhoCwNAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

         https://www.wayfair.com/Latitude-Run%C2%AE–Euell-Twin-50-Wide-Tufted-Back-Futon-Chair-X115626643-L978-K~W004515532.html?refid=FR49-W004515532_1230972333&PiID%5B%5D=1230972333

         These are all on the cheaper side, obviously, but there are definitely more expensive/sturdier ones out there.

   5. I just moved and furnished my office. My room is a little bigger, 10×12. I got an L-shaped desk with a sit-stand option from Wayfair, and arranged it so I could look out of the window. (I wanted only half of the desk to raise, the half with both of my monitors and my keyboard/mouse.) I got a “real” office chair from Staples.

      On the wall behind me, I used a cheap online canvas place to print a large photo I took of a city that I love. A bookshelf from Target is on a side wall to hold office supplies in cute bins and photo boxes, a few reference materials, and my printer. In front of the window, I have a small arm chair from World Market (the Noemi) with an Asperod side table from Ikea. The arm chair is a fun print that makes me smile to see it.

      Because my office is carpeted too, I need a chair mat for my desk area. I got a cheap very thin one from Amazon and it bunches up every time I move my chair, so I think I need to get a better quality one. That’ll be next on my list.

   6. I buy vintage and antiques. They are much better quality and since they already have a patina, you don’t need to sweat the first scratch.

7. Despite my best efforts, I never feel ahead of the game. I have a feast or famine job (I work 40 hours or I work 90 hours, very little in between), some hobbies I’m pretty committed to (mostly outdoors and fitness activities), and a very active social life (I usually have plans 5-7 nights a week; I’m an extreme extrovert and anything less leaves me feeling unfulfilled). I love all of that and have no interest in scaling back. But, as a result I don’t often have a ton of down time at home and don’t have a lot of margin for error for when I can run errands, do chores, and have time to just relax (which I do make sure I do!). I feel like I”m always playing catch up in my life, but also if I miss doing one or two things it feels like I can’t recover from that and I”m just disorganized/late/dont have what I need done until I get a breather. And, my disorganization just feeds off of itself: I frequently run late for things, my work life is similarly disorganized, etc. I definitely have an all or nothing personality – so when things aren’t going perfectly they’re a disaster.

   I grew up in a house where almost everyone else had ADHD so I don’t think I ever learned how to be on top of my stuff. My family is awesome and they made it work, but it was more chaotic than need be and that’s not how I want to keep living. So, I’m looking to hear how you all take care of whatever you need to take care of. I’m definitely looking for ways to automate and/or simplify my life, but also for the things you just still have to do – how do you do them without feeling like a chicken with its head cut off? And how do you keep it up?

   1. Maybe there are some small tweaks you can make, especially to your work schedule, but I think you should not cut back on your social if her hobbies for the sake of chores. I always cringe when I read posts here about how “every Saturday I deep clean the house“ or “spend your time between jobs organizing your closet.” I am a huge fan of small changes you can make that might help streamline some of the more disorganized aspects of your life, but of course you’re not going to be home much if you work hard and play hard!

      How about a cleaning service, meal delivery, or tweaks to all recurring chores (eg, autopsy?) What low-effort, high-impact changes can you make?

      1. Thank you! this is the kind of response I was looking for! I’m very focused on living my life to the fullest, so while I do get the things I need to do done, I don’t think I should sacrifice the things I like to do so! I really think I only need maybe 3 hours a week for all of this as my chores are pretty minimal and I get them all done, I would just like to do them better.

         I usually cook 2x a week and then eat leftovers or easy meals (like bagged salads). I often clean or workout while its cooking, so kill two birds with one stone. Laundry is easy enough to throw in once a week (and then 10 mins to put away), and cleaning doesn’t take much time (maybe 30 min/week total? Clean bathroom, swiffer bedroom floors, occasionally dust, and then clean the kitchen after I cook, and then deep clean on occasion?). I have roommates, so we split cleaning the common areas, but even so it doesn’t take long. I rent, so no house or yard maintenance.

         I usually hit errands on my walk home from work (which most weeks is just grocery store and target/CVS), and other random life things that pop up I can usually do during my lunch break (pay bills online, make dr’s appts, etc).

         I think a goal would be to find the best way to do those 2-3 hours of chores/week, and then develop a plan for the bigger things (maybe one day a quarter to deep clean/organize closet/plan out meals, whatever it is).

         1. I have a small apartment and it takes me a lot longer than 30 mins to clean!

            1. What’s your cleaning routine look like? I tidy as I go (usually set a 5 min timer before bed to tidy up), so cleaning is only actually cleaning.

               Bathroom: every week I wipe down mirror, sink, toilet. Dry swiffer floors. Very small bathroom – takes 5 minutes. Once a month I’ll clean the shower (I spray it down after every shower) and wet swiffer the floors. Takes an extra 5 minutes.
               Bedroom: might need a little end of week tidying/re organizing. I swiffer the floors and change linens weekly. (10 mins) Monthly I’ll wet swiffer and dust. (10 mins)
               Kitchen/Living room: Remove clutter that’s mine (5 mins). Clean kitchen counters after cooking (5 mins) , clean oven/stove/microwave monthly (15 mins). I have 3 roommates; the kitchen is never as clean as I’d prefer, but also it’s not my job to clean up after them. We have a Roomba that runs 3x a week, so floors are mostly good – wet swiffer on occasion (10 mins). Dust living room on occasion (10 mins)
               Laundry: I work a hybrid schedule. On a wfh day, I throw laundry in between meetings. Everything I own gets washed together and dried together. 5 mins to throw it in/change it over., 10 mins to put away. Do laundry 1-3x a week, depending.

               So, all included its about 40 mins a week and then an extra hour a month. It’s not perfect, but with roommates it never will be. And then maybe a few times a year I’ll deep clean – baseboards, blinds, etc. I’d much rather spend the extra time running, seeing friends, shopping, etc. than cleaning. Good enough is fine for me!

            2. I guess we just have way different cleaning standards! I deep clean my bath weekly! And I don’t think swiffering counts as really cleaning the floors. I’m a very tidy person though.

            3. Would honestly like to hear what you do and how long it takes! I consider myself very clean but I also think swiffering/sweeping counts as cleaning so am curious what your routine is!

         2. Right. The plan is to make the time to do them. Something has to give. You can’t manufacture a 28 hr day.

            1. If you work and sleep 8 hours a day, you have 8 hours left. Let’s say its 1 hour for workout, 1 hour for commute, and 2 hours for socializing you still have 4 hours for downtime, chores, and “adulting”

         3. You’re welcome! Sorry for all the phone typos in my response though, yikes. “Autopsy” should be autopay…

         4. Also, don’t meal prep. Meal prep is the biggest killer of spontaneity and weekend time. Instead, aim for easy pantry staples and go-to meals that you can make really quickly. Bagged salads are a good start. I also do homemade vegetarian burritos, scrambled eggs, and similar easy-make meals that require no thought or prep. The worst thing to me is a sunny Sunday afternoon spent chopping vegetables!

            1. This is super helpful – I have spent so much time meal prepping and I hate it. Meal prepping is not fun cooking, so it truly feels like a chore!

            2. Definitely agree. I don’t “cook” in that I can’t be bothered prepping and heating a meat and side. I eat salads, make a frittata in the microwave, etc.

   2. Honey what? You are an adult. We all make adulting work by not having social plans 5-7 nights a week. Taking care of your life takes actual time. If you want to be on top of it, can you not pick either Monday or Tuesday every week to be your Commitment to Adulting night where you do laundry, do some food prep, get your groceries delivered, and tidy in advance of a cleaning service you schedule for Wednesday?

      1. +1

         This saying goes back a long time – sleep / job / social life, pick 2. Using “sleep” as a catch-all for self-care and life maintenance.

         You can’t have Job and Social 100% of the time and expect “Sleep” to slot right in if only you perfectly schedule your chores…

         1. Huh? No way. We all need jobs and to sleep and we can also have a social life. I can’t imagine a more joyless existence than “job and sleep” for life. Shudder.

            1. +100

               Adults definitely can have a very fulfilling personal life. It seems rarer than it should be, but it’s very possible to fit in chores and a social life.

            2. Add in a disability or chronic illness and this seems about right to me.

            3. I have a chronic illness and a lot of hobbies. I’m lucky in many ways (I’m mobile and on the healthier end for my condition), but if anything, my illness has made me MORE invested in my hobbies and social life. Life is short (literally for me).

            4. Yeah, that’s extreme. I do a 3/4 week – 3ish nights of plans and 4 nights to chill/get things done. You don’t have to give up a social life to stay on top of things.

            5. Do you have weeknight plans? 3 nights of plans is the weekend – Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I”m not doing things all day Saturday or Sunday, but I”m definitely doing something social each of those days.

            6. Sorry catching up on this. What I meant is that OP seems to be prioritizing Job and Social 100% of the time, which isn’t sustainable long term vs. a handful of days a week in where “sleep” aka life maintenance gets more attention than Social does.

      2. +1 sorry, but you can’t have it all. You have to drop some of your “fun” stuff to do adult stuff. That’s how all non-super rich people do it.

         1. Fully agree with anon @9:58 AM.

      3. +1

         Plans every night of the week is insanity when you are an adult with a job and responsibilities.

      4. Yeah, this. Tough love. You are living in chaos because those are the choices you’re making.

      5. This is pretty harsh but I kind of agree. Pre-pandemic my husband and I were out and about 4-6 nights a week and we thought we really liked it. But we agree that the slower pace of life now is actually a lot better and our Adulting situation has vastly improved.

   3. Throw money at everything? Subscribe and save for all household needs, grocery delivery, plan the same meals every month, pay for cleaners and someone to do your laundry. But it still leaves you with having to find time for Drs appointments, deal with the car and whatnot.
      Either devote a bit more time to it, or relax your standards so you don’t constantly feel behind.
      For introvert me, this whole setup sounds absolutely terrible…

   4. 40 hours a week is not a famine! It’s a normal diet. :)

   5. Gently: This sounds exhausting. And I’m getting a mixed message: You feel disorganized, but don’t want to scale back on any activity?
      You need to make time for downtime and “life stuff”. Even outsourcing these things to the max (think: food box subscriptions, house cleaner, laundry service, garden care in case you own a house etc) takes time to arrange and manage. If you can commit one night per week for “office” chores like paying bills, that will free up some time.
      Also, it’s ok to skip an activity once in a while, too, if there’s other stuff going on that needs attention! It sounds to me that you might have some FOMO issues? Think about people in your circles – is everyone there on every single outing? Do you even (negatively) notice?

   6. i am not an extreme extrovert, but there is a difference between having plans 5 nights a week and 7 nights a week. do you think you can feel fulfilled enough with plans 5 nights a week so then you have 2 nights to deal with stuff?

      1. That’s a good point – I’d say 90% of the time I have plans 5 nights a week. Usually if it’s 7 nights a week, then one of those nights is having dinner at my parents house which is as much self-care as it is social. 7 nights is too much for me and I do try to avoid that.

         Also, there are times where my weeknight plans are going out til 11 or going to a concert, but more often than not mid-week plans are low key (a 45 min walk with a friend, a 1 hour happy hour, grabbing dinner, etc), which is why having plans so often has never felt excessive to me.

         I think plans 5/6 nights a week, when half of those nights are lower-key is totally doable with my schedule/life. It’s very possible to do that, and then come home and meal prep or whatever.

   7. If your social life and fitness goals are keeping you from being productive and organized at work, that is not sustainable long term, and you need to cut back.

      1. I would flip it – if your work hours are keeping you from balancing a social life and basic needs, you need to cut back on work. 90 hours/week is awful – 40 is already more than enough. Society wasn’t designed for one individual to work 40 hours a week AND be responsible for home chores/childcare.

   8. Honestly when I was doing this it was a small symptom of anxiety for me.
      If I was at work or at a social activity I was busy and then would not feel anxious.
      But if I had any extended down time at all, there’s a chance I might.
      I went to therapy, and I’ve realized that while I like a good social life, I actually don’t get as anxious as I thought I would with down time.
      It’s good to have a solid plan – and if you’re cooking and cleaning you’ll be busy, you won’t be a couch potato.

      1. This is where I’m landing. Even the most extroverted people I know don’t maintain this schedule, speaking specifically to the “If I’m not out 5-7 nights/week I feel unfulfilled”…. or however you said it. What else is going on?

         1. Mostly that there is life to live, and sitting at home doing chores/watching TV/whatever is not making the most of that day. I know a lot of people who spend most of their time working, doing housework, etc. and that’s not how I want to live my life. I know I’ll eventually have kids and/or my career will get busier, and my life will look quite different, so in the interim I want to enjoy what I can.

            My plans really vary – there are nights where I”m out late drinking/dancing, but there are just as many nights where my plans are taking a walk with a friend after work or book club. Most of my plans fall somewhere in between: happy hour, working out with a friend, getting dinner, visiting family, rec league sports games, going to a concert/talk/event, getting a group together to watch the football game, etc.

            1. That still sounds exhausting to me, but you do you. It doesn’t sound like you actually want to change anything, but even those low-key social events are going to cut into adulting time.

            2. You’re right – I’m not looking to cut back. I just want to figure out how to maximize my at home time to work on “adulting”.

               I get everything done that I need to, but I feel like I’m playing catch up. I’d rather be ahead of the game (the adult version of finishing your homework before you go out to play).

            3. ok, I think this post is getting us closer to what is your actual goal. Is it the never ending to do list of adulting tasks and the feeling of never being ‘done’? The only people who I assume don’t feel this way, have a spouse or parent who takes care of all the things. By minimizing the time you spend on chores, and maximizing the time you spend on fun, you might have reached the limit of optimizing this problem.
               Does the thought of undone chores interfere with your fun time?

   9. I think you absolutely can do it all, you just need a system that works for you. I’m not great at this either. Havjng a system streamlines things which makes it easier to fit it all in.

      Some suggestions:
      – keep a running list of what you need on your phone. Then do one weekly grocery/cvs/target trip or Amazon order
      – buy all the same socks so you don’t waste time pairing them
      – take 10 mins every day to knock something off your to do list during lunch or right when you come home

   10. I wonder if you’re not as much of an extrovert as you think and you also have ADHD like your family does so the constant activities is sort of like a self soothing technique to prevent your brain from getting bored? At the very least I’d consider talking to a doctor about it.

   11. One day a week (Sunday for me) I cook two lunch/dinner meals and a breakfast egg casserole and then I portion all of it out into 14 tupperware containers – 9 for lunch/dinner and 5 for breakfast. This week was red beans and cornbread and greek chicken, quinoa, green beans and tzatziki. Once they are portioned out, I can just grab them and go to work easily and I only buy tupperware that can go in the dishwasher.

       1. this is helpful, thank you!

   12. Genuinely curious – what are you all doing on your nights in? I could see one night dedicated to chores/errands/planning, but I can’t see it taking more than one night?

       If you prefer having quieter nights in or are working on hobbies, totally get that (sounds like that’s the at home equivalent of what the OP does), but I just dont see chores/being an adult taking up more than 1 night/week.

       1. +1. Some people really do far more in the way of chores than is really necessary. It absolutely should not take up ALL your free time.

       2. So, I think a lot of this is dependent on whether you have children and what kind of job you have. I have a child and work in big law. I chose to have a kid and chose to work at the firm I do, but it results in me having very little free time totally myself. Going out consistently 5-7 nights a week isn’t logistically possible (or desirable to plan for) at the moment, as my child needs to be in bed at 7 and would require far more planning and babysitter requests than I want to deal with.

          From about 5:15-7:30, I’m with my kiddo, making dinner, putting kiddo to bed (along with DH, we both choose to do bedtime), tidying up the kitchen, etc. then I usually have to back online to do work till 9:30 or later. I also am a much happier person when my house is clean and tidy, so I happily devote time to that. I don’t let laundry sit unfolded/in the dryer, dishes in the sink/drying rack, and I wipe down all bathroom and kitchen counters each day, and sweep the floors each day. If there’s a night when I don’t have work, I try to take advantage of totally having free time to myself with no immediate responsibilities to anyone else. Maybe I get my nails done, or I work on one of my long term projects (like researching the history of my house, woodworking (I’m an extreme novice but would like to do more DIY repairs around our 100 year old house one day), cook something extravagant, or watch/read about one of sports teams I follow religiously). Between date nights with my husband, or grabbing dinner with other families, I have probably 2-3 nights a month where I have the ability to do something that’s 100% for me and have the time to watch more than 30 minutes of tv.

   13. To start: no dry clean only clothing and no hand wash only kitchen stuff.

   14. You’re basically asking for more hours in the day, a situation I’ve faced repeatedly, and it’s just not possible. Something’s gotta give.

       That said, be as efficient as you can be when you are accomplishing tasks. One of my friends once told me that he had a deal with himself that he would only reward himself with something he wanted to do (watch baseball on TV, a total time suck) if he was accomplishing something else at the same time. So he would do laundry and wash the dishes during the baseball game. He felt like he was at least accomplishing something this way. Of course this specific example depends on the position of your sink to the TV and whether you have in-unit laundry or whatever, but it’s this idea of multitasking at home that made sense to me. I find myself doing the same sort of trade offs – ok I can do that if I run a duster over all the surfaces in the living room first.

   15. Automate as much as you can- things like running out of shampoo always make me feel a bit disorganized, so all of my toiletries/house products/dog stuff is on autoship. I put a load of laundry in at night and set it to delay wash an hour before I wake up so I can put it in the dryer as soon as I take the dog out, then I fold before work (or wash something like sheets/towels ideally so I don’t need to fold it.) If you have any way to predict your slower times, book haircuts, doc appointments, car maintenance, etc., during lunch at those times so you aren’t trying to do those after hours. I order meal delivery for lunches and some dinners that is delivered once a week and is healthy food that I then don’t have to think about, and the service I use (local to my area) will let you set up recurring deliveries so you only have to pick stuff once, and then I rarely have to grocery shop to fill in the blanks, because I’m either eating prepped food or out most of the time, but I use instacart when I do order so I can be cleaning the house or whatever while someone else shops. Someone’s advice here once to keep the weekends for fun and weeknights (or a couple weeknights) for errands on the way home for work has been life changing for me- I feel refreshed on Mondays and not like I “wasted” the weekend with boring adulting. But truly I’m not sure there’s a way to stay on top of everything while working 90 hours a week frequently if you don’t have a SAH spouse.

       1. Super helpful thank you! The 90 hour weeks are rare and during those weeks I do nothing but work and sleep.

8. Lawyers: do you include bar admissions on your resume?

   I’ve worked in one jurisdiction in my career and am looking for a new job in the same jurisdiction after a few years as a sahm. I’m wondering if I can get a couple lines back by deleting the bar admissions section? And perhaps just including my state bar number?

   I have a couple of federal appellate admissions from work I assisted with in-house, but I’m in no way a litigator. And it’s not like the hoops to get admission were particularly hard.

   1. I only include one line- Admitted to practice in NY, NJ, and MA. They don’t need a whole run down of federal courts

   2. I do not include it. I’m 14 years post grad and in a counsel position so obviously I am admitted to the bar and people can always look it up anyway. I’ve never been asked about it and I have had four attorney jobs since graduation.

      1. Although to be fair, I have never litigated or practiced before a court so take this with that grain of salt.

      2. I have it as a one-liner but I initially practiced in another state and want to make it clear I am licensed where I live now and not just “under the supervision of” someone else. Some clients won’t pay or will pay less if you’re not admitted locally, so it’s just a box-ticking thing. If it is on your firm website or linked in or otherwise easy to find and not in doubt, maybe OK to take off then.

   3. I updated my resume to a two-column format, with the left column being much more narrow than the right column. Left column contains contact information, education, bar admission.

      1. +1 this is what I did. And I only list states, not every court.

   4. I wouldn’t include court admissions–they’re easy enough to get, and they’re irrelevant for most in-house positions. For an in-house role, I’d probably list state bar admissions only if it weren’t obvious that you’ve been a practicing lawyer (like, coming from a compliance role), but that doesn’t sound like the case here.

   5. I just say “admitted to practice in PA and NJ” right-justified at the top (oppos-te my name & contact info, which is left-justified at the top) – that way it takes up no actual resume real estate. I don’t list my actual bar #.

   6. Thanks, all! I just removed the bar admissions section.

   7. This is so funny to me. In my field (lots of lawyers but not law practice) we use CVs and no lawyer would ever leave bar admissions off.

9. I have zero interest in coming home and watching tv or sitting on the couch for hours after work. There are 2 shows I watch, and I watch my team’s NFL games and that’s the only TV I care about watching. Most of my hobbies involve being out and about and/or other people, which I can do some nights but not every night. I live with roommates that I get along with, but am not that close with (and they are very content to spend their nights watching whatever TV).

   I workout, I knit a little, and I read a good amount but I don’t really know what people do when they’re home in the evenings? I certainly don’t do those things enough to fill a few nights a week with them. Everyone I know veg outs and watches TV after work so am looking to hear what others do!

   1. Walk the dogs, go for a run or bike ride, hang with SO or friends, do crosswords, do chores/yard work/errands, read longform articles on the internet or books, go to dinner/cook dinner. I go to bed around 9/9:30 as I get up early for the gym so I have no issues filling the time!

   2. I’ve been wondering about this! I live alone, but as you said even when I have roommates they often watch TV. To me this meant that I had to develop a hobby that I do at home, but not on the computer, especially during the pandemic. I haven’t developed a major one, but I think I have several passable replacements.

      I go swimming, I go on long walks in new neighborhoods, read a lot of physical books that I get from the library, do chores during the week so I don’t have to do it on the weekend (got that idea from here). But idk what else people do. Growing some houseplants has turned out to be a better hobby than expected. I started doing puzzles because its calming / decompressing like watching TV but not on a screen. I look for and go to weeknight talks or other events. I’ve realized that I need to develop “extracurriculars” for myself just like one would for their kid.

      1. I love this – I really do not want to waste my life watching TV I don’t even enjoy that much or scrolling on my phone and I totally agree that I need screen-free time.

         1. Someone said to me that how you choose to spend your time is a reflection of your priorities – and scrolling through TikTok is not one of my priorities at all. So I decided I should allocate time accordingly.

   3. I create. That’s my passion.

      Husband and I are writing a play together. He’s a pro musician and I’m a pro writer.

      I also write poetry and sci-fi.

   4. I love TV so I do watch a lot, but I also cross stitch, read, do chores (I prefer doing them on week nights instead of wasting valuable weekend time on cleaning), get together with friends, go on dates, occasionally see my parents, etc.

   5. Before I had kids I’d usually cook dinner and straighten up, garden, do some home improvement project, and/or work out – maybe go to a yoga class, jog, or ride my bike. Occasionally I’d paint or knit. Now beyond cooking a lot of my time is taken up by playing/wrangling kids.

   6. I’m on the same page as you. I watch a little TV, but don’t want to watch ANY more and I also use my phone too much. I’m focusing on reading, mountain biking, board games with my husband, and knitting, but I’d also like to try writing a novel. I’m really focused on “high-quality leisure time” at this point in my life and as an introvert, that doesn’t look like a ton of social activities, but it can look a lot better than my previously mindless vegging. I’ve also really enjoyed (but am not doing due to the pandemic) rock climbing and horseback riding.

   7. I’m learning to play the cello.

      I do easy embroidery kits, admittedly while I watch tv. But it’s fun and satisfying to do. Sometimes my boyfriend and I will play Mario Kart or other Nintendo games, which is surprisingly fun for someone who grew up never playing video games.

      I like to bake and am trying to learn how to make sourdough bread, but I don’t really want to bake very much when I don’t have office mates to help eat what I make.

   8. DH and I often sit on the couch reading books, which I find more satisfying than tv, but still is a pretty couch potato activity.

   9. I paint, take the furbaby for a walk. Prepping for the next day if I have to be in office (lunch/ironing).

   10. I strive to do something genuinely fun every day. Often, that’s getting together with friends or taking a long bike ride. I’m not great at finding things that are fun for me on days I”m neither socializing or biking, so this thread is helpful!

       There is so much more to life than work and errands, and I am searching for it!

   11. We make a pretty big production of cooking dinner together most nights. And when the weather is nice, we do a lot of “sitting outside with a glass of wine and listening to music and chatting.” It’s especially nice with the fire pit when it’s cooler.

       And also… TV. (OMG my husband is having a tough time after his Moderna booster and he was ready for bed last night after ONE episode of Squid Game — and it was the tug-of-war cliffhanger!!! Argh….)

       1. My third shot (autoimmune) kicked my butt for four days. It was no joke!!

          Mine was Pfizer though. My husband had moderna. I’m curious about the Moderna booster because I thought it was Pfizer only at this point.

          1. My third shot (autoimmune) kicked my butt for four days. It was no joke!!

             Mine was Pfizer though. My husband had moderna. I’m curious about the Moderna booster because I thought it was Pfizer only at this point.

   12. 3 days a week I work out after work, then listen to a podcast as I do some easy house chores. The other days I read fiction books (dead tree book from the library or an e-book) and those immerse me for hours. When the sun set later, I would take an after-dinner walk, either listening to a podcast or talking to a friend on the phone.

   13. I often take Zoom classes for fun that meet once a week in the evening (say 5-7 pm or 6-8 p.m.) and they usually have reading and assignments that I work on one or two other evenings during the week. Not work-related but purely as an enjoyable hobby (for me, creative writing). Classes might be once a week for three weeks, or six weeks, sometimes longer. There are many options online if a fun class is of interest.

10. I live in a new, large building in DC. There have been a handful of break ins into the lobby (and one time even into a unit) but the leasing company has only notified residents of two. There was also package theft one of the two times a break in occurred but the leasing company said the person stayed in the open area within the lobby and did not mention the package theft. Our poor overnight concierge repeatedly asked for extra security but with no success. She was even robbed one night of her cash. I’m sure of these other entries because she was telling residents of the most recent event (where packages were stolen) and decided to quit, printing out screenshots of the security cameras every time a incident happened. There’s about 3-5 occurrences that residents aren’t aware of.

    Frankly, I pay too much money to live in a building where the mega leasing company can’t shell out money for security. And it’s wrong that the leasing company isn’t alerting us every time the police are called to our building to handle an issue that effects all tenants. I’m considering moving if I can get out of my lease. Is anyone familiar with DC tenant laws?

    1. How much longer is left on your lease?

    2. I’m not familiar with DC tenant law, but the attorney general or the bar association for each jurisdiction often have a free “Landlord Tenant guide” or other resources. The small claims court may also have a guide for landlord tenant claims made for people representing themselves, and that could give you an overview too.

    3. Not sure about DC law but I’m in commercial real estate and deal with a lot of big multifamily properties. The decision to add security (or not) ultimately comes from the property owner, which may or may not be affiliated with the “leasing company” (assuming you mean property management company). The management company would have to tell the property owner about the incidents, but I can’t imagine a building like yours and the management co of the size you describe wouldn’t do this.

       I’d recommend starting with your lease. Read all the fine print and see what tenant rights there may be. Second, as another poster mentioned, I’d look to my city for resources about renter’s rights, and often there is a hotline you can call for guidance. Good luck.

11. Anyone have recs for a female dermatologist in the Old Town Alexandria area (preferable) or anywhere else in NoVa, preferably accessible via public transit? (I don’t have a car.) I don’t need specialized care at this point, just my annual skin screening, but I’m looking for a new dermatologist. Thanks!

    1. Not NoVA, but public transit accessible – I go to K Street Dermatology (also known as Integrated Dermatology) and see Dr. McKelroy for this. I also see her for acne. I like them a lot and the size of the practice makes getting in to see them WAY easier.

       1. +1 to Integrated Dermatology

    2. Nancy Aria down on Duke Street – not super close to the metro, but there are bus lines that run past their office.

       1. +1 for Dr Aria

12. After the Everlane question yesterday, I went hunting for similarly eco-conscious options and landed on Modern Citizen. Does anyone have experience with them? I loved a lot of what I saw, and the prices are better than I expected. Can anyone speak to quality or customer service?

    1. I have been meaning to post a PSA. I ordered two pairs of paints from Modern Citizen. I sent them both back because of fit but the quality was really good, styles were cool and I wanted to like them. I’m a curvy size 8 (thighs more like a 10, waist more like a 6). I tried the Aster pant in size L and Shelby trousers in M. The Aster pant was like a really thick and smooth yoga flair pant. They were just too form fitting around the thighs for what I wanted to wear them for. The Aster pants were much closer to what I wanted, nice fabric, classic cut, but with the “S/M/L” sizing, I felt like it just wasn’t precise enough. Slightly too tight on thighs, slightly too loose on waist, but the L would have required so much tailoring that it wouldn’t be worth it. So if you are more straight up and down it might work. I’ll try out other things from them – quality and style was great and this pants fit thing is just always something that I have to tailor my way out of or find really specific cuts.

       1. Fail – the second pants review is about the Shelby pants. More coffee please.

    2. I have a dress from Modern Citizen and I think the quality and fit are good. No issues with that or the service (but I didn’t have to return or anything). I think it’s a legit brand. And I’m absolutely DROOLING over the a-line vegan leather skirt, but it’s not like I’m going many places these days. If anyone has thoughts on where to wear that, I could be convinced to buy it. ;)

13. Hi Everyone! I did The Thing!

    I posted a while ago about the online magic series I produced (I have a day job, but the art of magic is a passion), and now that restrictions are lifting, I’m taking it to the next level!

    I’m so excited to announce that Flavors of Magic (a show to highlight the diversity of the magic community) is going live! Thursday, October 14, 7 & 9pm at the Russian Samovar on 52nd near 8th Ave in NYC. It’s a fantastic group of performers with some very different styles and voices, and I’m going to host and do a short set.

    If you are in NYC, check it out! www(dot)flavorsofmagic(dot)com

    Either way, please wish me luck. This is a direction I never thought my life would go, and it is an exciting ride!

    1. Not in NYC, but just wanted to say that sounds really cool! Congrats!

    2. Oh my gosh, that sounds really cool! Well done and I hope it’s a smash!

    3. Congratulations! This sounds fantastic!

    4. Woo hoo! Wonderful! Congratulations and best of luck!!

    5. This is awesome!! Congrats!!!

14. What is Katie Couric doing?!? Is she using a book to settle scores and let her true feelings known? She was always revered as the girl next door who was an amazing journalist (her interview of Sarah Palin – featured on SNL – was a turning point in Palin’s candidacy), but her book is giving people the impression that she’s a mean girl and bully who is trying to keep other women down. Why would she do this at this point in her career, when has millions of dollars and what many would consider to be a great reputation?

    1. Right there with you. She should have enough $ not to need to do what I think of as an own-goal here.

    2. It’s crazy. I think so much less of her now.

    3. A guest spot on the Morning Show?

       1. Hahahaha

    4. I thought her treatment of Palin showed her to be a mean girl and a bully. Several years after that, I had the opportunity to be interviewed by Couric and turned it down, precisely for that reason. I don’t want someone who makes her reputation tearing other people down to have a go at me.

       1. I feel like now I want to know so much more about you and this. Agree with you fully — trust your gut.

          1. +1 I’m listening…

          2. Palin was very popular in her state (>90% approval rating) and had taken down an old boys network getting there. She was starting to get some national attention (seat on a governors’ O&G board, I think) before the McCain pick.

             You can 100% believe that she wasn’t ready for the VP position while also highlighting her trajectory, the stresses of being a working mom of five whose husband goes off for weeks at a time, etc. That wasn’t what the interview did.

             One of the ways that you can make people look dumb in an interview is to ask the same question, slightly reworded, several times over. The interview subject gets flustered and confused; hasn’t she answered this already? She will also answer slightly differently based on the change in the question. The interviewer then chops and slices the interview, pairing the question that was asked first with the flustered, confused response to the slightly-different question asked five times later.

             Most of the interviews I’ve done have been straight runs: roll tape or audio, stop tape 20 minutes later, air live (or on radio). I had a newspaper interview that was a slice-and-dice, and I sounded completely incoherent. Knowing that Couric did that, I declined the interview, even though it could have been a feather in my cap.

             1. I agree — I am a working mom with only 2 kids and a spouse that doesn’t travel for work and my one special-needs kid is probably less needy than her son. I’ve never run a state and barely run my own house.

                I get that Katie had the widow sympathy for a while, but she is just a meanie. Why would she do this? Unless she sincerely believes her own press.

             2. There have been rumors for quite a while in media circles that Katie Couric is the ultimate mean girl. I thought a lot of it was the s3xist BS that any powerful woman gets as backlash to her success, but her own book is making me think there’s a lot of truth to the rumors. So disappointing, I really admired her.

             3. OMG, she was not popular in Alaska. She had scandals even before McCain picked her. Nice revisionist history there by somebody who has probably never even been here.

             4. Sorry, Anon, posting “OMG” before your own condescension does not make for a valid statement. Even politifact, no friend to the right, disagrees with you: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2008/sep/03/john-mccain/she-wins-popularity-contest/

                (PF states that she may not have been the most popular, as the metrics used in each state differed; however, she had an extraordinarily high approval rating.)

          3. About a dozen years ago, I was a spokeswoman for a campaign. We were interviewed by the big metro paper (think Chicago Tribune) and I was asked about how we were finding supportive voters and donors. I discussed allying with other community groups, where we were finding crossover support, and some headwinds we faced because of the national landscape. Interviewer asked if we were using social media, and I offhandedly said that we were using Facebook and Twitter.

             Friends, if you are guessing that the newspaper said, “[Sloane] said that her group is finding donors via twitter,” you get a big gold star.

    5. FWIW, if I read a memoir lately, it will be Dave Grohl’s. He is a winner.

15. I’m looking for a daily journal/planner that I can use to help process thoughts. Somewhere between a journal and a to do list. I liked the look of the Hobonichi Cousin planner, but: (a) I would prefer something in English; and (b) I can’t get over the exorbitant cost. Ideally something bigger than a 4×6, but smaller than a 8×11 and unlined. Thoughts?

    1. Have you checked out appointed?

       1. I have not — but I will. Thank you!

    2. Have you looked at Plum Paper? They have customizable planners, and have a daily option. You get to label each of the sections however you’d like. I use their “Notes and Days” horizontal layout so I can journal/ to do on one side, and see my week in a glance on the other. But you might check out the Daily layout (you can pick whatever section you want) or the Ultimate Goal Planner layout.

       I was disappointed that it’s a spiral layout, but as I’ve used it this year I find that I prefer that to a notebook. Maybe a flat-lay notebook would be my ideal though?

    3. Levenger?

    4. Have you checked out Passion Planners?

    5. If you’re looking at a page a day, you could always just use a notebook of your choice and write the date in. I’ve had hobonichi planners before and the paper is amazing and totally worth the cost to me — but also totally unnecessary.

       1. Which Hobonichi planner did you have??

    6. I use a medium Leuchtturm1917 weekly planner with dates on one side and a lined sheet on the facing page.

    7. I use a moleskine notebook for this – I do grid lined (with the dots) and it’s 5×8.25. It’s the perfect size.

16. Helppp. What do I wear to a meet and greet with a former Cabinet official? I’m guessing the guest list is fewer than 100. 6 PM on a weekday at a “private social club.” Industry skews casual. Dallas.

    1. Business formal, or just a little bit more casual than full on formal.

    2. Such a refreshing fashion question on a fashion blog!

       If you are not very young, a St. John dress (a plainer one, not one that screams St. John) and not-aggressive hairspray. Relying on “private social club” and Dallas vs casual industry for this.

       If younger, simple dress, not-aggressive hairspray.

    3. A nice work dress.

    4. Personally, I would either do a work-appropriate dress with sleeves or straight leg pants, a nice top, and a blazer.

    5. Thank you everyone. I am young-ish so I will do a nice work dress. I can’t say I see much aggressive hairspray here ;) but I will avoid that.

       1. I was thinking of the Katie Kime Dallas toile, which is very The Higher the Hair, the Closer to God.

          1. I just watched the HBO documentary about Gwen Shamblin Lara (Weigh Down weight loss), and good Lord that woman took that adage to heart!!

          2. omg. I had no idea this existed but I am very tempted to use this print somewhere in my home! haha

17. Background: A few years ago my husband and I made a multi-year pledge to our local arts organization, payable monthly. We have between 1 and 2 years to go before it is fulfilled. It was a huge amount to us, and a major but not MAJOR amount to the organization (think mid five figures total when there are other donors who give six figures annually). I will admit that part of the reason for the gift was that we liked the perks we got as “major donors” (invitations to events, etc) but we kept the monthly payments coming even when all that stopped in the pandemic.

    Well. The organization is in major disarray. The head guy, whom we liked although we recognized his flaws, has announced his resignation in a bit of disgrace, and the announcement of the first post-pandemic events was botched six ways to Sunday and has garnered a lot of bad press. To the point where I would like to withdraw my support from this organization and re-direct the funds to a smaller, more local organization to whom this money would make a bigger difference.

    Question: How big a sin is it to renege on a multi-year charitable pledge because you are unhappy with the direction in which the organization is going? Is this a common thing or is it just not done? I don’t want to make a major scandal but I don’t want to throw my money away on an organization I think is going the wrong way. Please advise.

    1. Is there an option to pause the monthly donations until the org gets its act together? Donors who are pushing back will be something brought up at a Board meeting, especially when discussing hiring and retention decisions.

18. Repost from late yesterday though thanks for the 2 good responses — are any of you all in the situation where you did commercial/financial litigation in biglaw, left to go someplace either because you didn’t make partner or didn’t want that life or thought the exits in litigation were slim, now are doing that other thing and are tempted to go back to litigation because you could get a counsel or non equity partner offer? All of the preceding apply to me, I landed in government, my job is fine and pays about 200k (financial regulator); there’s one specific type of law I’m interested in which is not what I do in the government (finance related but really niche) but have experience from my biglaw days + have kept in touch with networking, conferences etc. That sub area is NOT hot right now. Peers I’ve spoken to from my biglaw days act like I’m being ridiculous to hold out for that sub area, as they say just go grab the money doing financial litigation and if that sub area gets hot, you can decide what to do then. Part of me gets it – I could be making 400k+ if someone were to hire me (big IF) but then I think of all the downsides – I don’t get to do what I want (I mean I don’t in government either but I don’t work all that much); I’m back in litigation which I worked so hard to get out of; what if the new firm takes me and then dumps me in 1-2 years when the market slows, no way I’m getting my government job back as it’s too hard to get hired.

    How do you think about this? What’s the calculus between waiting for what you want vs. making money vs. putting yourself back into difficult career situations. FWIW I could use the money to pay off a house quickly and/or retire a few years earlier decades from now (I’m 40 now); but am perfectly fine with my current salary as well.

    1. May I ask what area of the country you live in? I do not make anywhere near $400k as a NEP but I am not in NYC or LA. Your friends are likely in a better position to know what type of $$ you would make. In any event, I would ask a lot of questions before taking any offer in terms of how pay is structured/ determined and what is expected in your position.

       For what it’s worth, I have been at my firm since I was an associate and I absolutely hate being a NEP. Suddenly I have limited utility because I do not bring in the threshold business, even though over half (at least) of the capital partners were grandfathered in under a one-tier system and have no books themselves. Yet I also am too expensive to staff at the same capacity as when I was an associate. Maybe you would feel differently coming in from the outside. Another consideration is are you prepared to do the firm gladhanding, the business development, the marketing, the thought leadership, the nonbillable work?

    2. I’m also at a financial regulator after working in litigation (probably the same one) and I just can’t imagine going back to that lifestyle after being out of it for a number of years. Agree that it would be impossible to get rehired. Although you will of course never make the same amount of money in the government, I really feel like 200k for a 40 hour week is a great deal. I’m also not at HQ or NYC, so my cost of living is not as high as some.

    3. I was a nonequity partner for 5 years. During this time, I made from high $100k to high $200k, including bonus. So, nothing close to $400k a year. I hated it. I was treated as a second class partner, was not invited to partnership meetings where the firm’s finances were discussed, and I was basically unable to turn down work from the equity/real partners, including the jerk ones, for fear of being blackballed. If you are nonequity, you are not a real partner and people are making money off of your hours. The only way I would recommend that you do this is if you have a firm date for when you would be put up for equity and you have a strong chance of making it. Otherwise you will start feeling less valued after about 2 years as a nonequity partner. What is your not-hot area of law? Antitrust? Why don’t you post what you’re interested in and why and get better ideas from the hive?

19. Has anybody had Botox for bruxism (teeth grinding)? How was it? And any recommendations for L.A./Pasadena area providers?

    1. I’m interested too. I take one valium 5 mg every night and wear an expensive night guard made by my TMJ provider. The night guard prevents the pain in front of my ears I used to get but I still get pain across my forehead in the morning even with the valium. I have also recently fractured a tooth due to grinding despite the night guard. It’s very frustrating.

    2. Second hand, but life-changing for a friend of mine. She was staring down fake teeth by 35 despite having a mouthguard. Unfortunately it seems like (at least for her) she has to go back every 3-4 months forever. They were hoping that after a few injections her muscles would get weaker and be less destructive, but I guess that wasn’t in the cards for her.

       1. Thanks for this! Camla, I have reached out to a local provider for an appointment so I will report back!

20. I have been eyeing this dress. Can anyone speak to its quality and fit?

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