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Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anon
I stumbled across this article about a couple’s debt problem yesterday and can’t decide if it sounds real. Thoughts?
https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-us/magazine/money-diary-couple-debt-us
Anonymous
I think it’s real. Their situation is extreme but I know a lot of high-earners with consumer debt and minimal saving.
Anon
OP here and I agree with that, but something about this story gave me pause because it’s almost like someone tried to check off the boxes for what you’re not supposed to do with money. Buy too much house? Check. Cash out 401k to pay off debt? Check. Borrow (but not pay back) money from family? Check. I guess all of those things may have actually happened to this couple, but it sounded like a made up story a little bit there. If it’s true, I feel both sympathy for them and annoyance at the way they refuse to address the root problems.
Ellen
It is real, b/c if you put two dummies together, they get married and have 4 kids and high tastes, this is what you get. My ex was carless but I was smart enough to have a dad that smelled him out like a rat and warned me to dump his sorry tuchus b/f he could impregnate me and then MARRY me. Boy would I have gotten stuck with a looser! FOOEY! Every time my dad calls me daffy, I thank him from getting Sheketovits out of my life for me b/c I was NOT strong enough to give up haveing a boyfreind, and Sheketovits was more then happy liveing in my apartment, drinkeing and eating all day, then stinking up my toilet when I was at work. Without him in my life, I have at least a chance at a decent life with a decent guy. Dad I am grateful for you chasing him for me. YAY! And happy Thanksgiving to the ENTIRE HIVE!!!!! YAY!!1
Panda Bear
Yikes. Sounds awful, but certainly possible.
Anonymous
I don’t judge them for having gotten into that situation. But I do judge them for how they are raising their kids to be entitled brats and for not doing anything to improve their situation (like downsizing their home or sending their kids to public school). Like, your son clearly does not know the value of money but you continue to allow him to buy his $15 sushi and smoothie? It’s because of people like you that the rest of us (who do pay our student loans and consumer debt) have to pay outrageous interest rates. We’re subsidizing your lifestyle. Those scholarships your kids get should be going to a low-income family.
Anonymous
I totally judge them. Complete garbage people. Don’t use credit cards if you can’t pay them off. They were not using credit cards to saving themselves from eviction on a low cost apartment, they were upgrading their lifestyle on credit. I hate people like that.
Always amazed when people make it into their forties with debt beyond a mortgage and maybe the tailend of student loans.
sss
Agreed. There weren’t like unexpected huge health costs (she mentioned a surgery, but not extended stays in the hospital or anything, plus they were already in this situation before the surgery).
S
The fact that they got a get-out-of-jail-free card at their frugal parents’ expense and just did it all again… wow
anon a mouse
I think it’s real, or at least close enough to reality.
The most troubling part of all of it is when she says they are worth more dead. That, combined with abject denial and dissociation of the actual debt amounts and consequences of their actions, are telling that they really don’t care about this problem. They make decent money. If they made different choices (no private school, cooking instead of eating out, etc), they probably could slay this debt in less than a decade and sleep better at night. They seem to have no grasp of the fact that they continue to make poor choices and will never escape unless they change their ways.
Anonymous
Absolutely. They can’t afford their lifestyle. They can’t afford private school. They refuse to face reality.
Tetra
Wow, that was awful to read.
Anon
$160k of annual household income, in the suburbs of a northeast city, with 3 kids, is middle class. That means no private school, a small home, and budgeting for treats like eating out.
I feel sorry for people who made one or two bad decisions once. Too much house? Too much student debt? Graduated into the recession (not a choice for many of us, but it has lifelong repercussions)? Thought you could afford two new cars and your roof collapsed? That stuff all happens to normal people.
But the student loans, the house, the private school, staying at home with kids old enough to be in school – wtf.
Anonymous
I know!
I went to law school and my deal with myself was 100% could not quit until law school was paid off. Period. But I’m a partner and with college bills, my retirement savings, summer camps, etc. the cost of private school is a frill we can’t justify. Our public schools are good (not great) and we are eyeing state U for college (still $25K/year all in probably).
What will happen to these people if they become disabled or live past 80?
Anon
I don’t think she stays home? At least she said she “stays home” but then she said her salary was $70k, so definitely not a SAHM in the conventional sense.
Anon
Right, but the implication is that she could get a higher-paying job if she were willing to commute into an office.
Perhaps between costs of not working from home (commuting, after school care, higher taxes from the higher salary), it would not make much sense for her to do this. But it seems like she can at least… explore those options?
anon
I read it as she took a lower paying job so that she could have more flexibility when it came to childcare, but it does say “so she could stay home” so maybe she worked intermittently in the beginning of her career. Which is not altogether unreasonable, but when combined with this many other terrible choices. She’s what, 15+ years out of law school by now and she’s working at an insurance company paying claims for 70k? There’s nothing wrong with this per se and I am not trying to be snobby but it looks like she did not take steps necessary to develop her career and skill set into something that could have actually been financially stable for all that debt. Very short-sighted choices.
Anon
I went to law school 10+ years ago, and now make $50k because this low-paying job is what fulfills me and allows me to spend a lot of time with my family. You say you’re not being snobby, but you are. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a lawyer making $70k or much less. The problem is that the family is living beyond their means, not that she “did not take steps necessary to develop her career and skill set.”
sss
This is not about you.
She said “into something that could have been stable for all that debt.” That’s exactly what she said.
Anon
I still don’t think the problem is the $70k job though. Her husband makes $90k (why is no one telling him to get a better paying job?) and it’s totally possible to live comfortably in a big city on $160k. The poster’s job is perfectly stable and would provide for a very decent life, especially when combined with her husband’s salary. The problem is that they can’t deny themselves anything – they want private school, organic food delivery, regular vacations, etc. That’s the root of the problem, not that she’s a lawyer who makes $70k.
cbackson
This. There is nothing wrong with choosing a lower salary for flexibility or other reasons, you just have to adjust your lifestyle to the income you have. This family has a combined income that is still much, much higher than the vast majority of Americans and lots of people who make less than they do have managed to have much more financially stable lives.
anon
+1. I chose a lower salary for shorter hours–not flexibility, per se, but 9-5 and being left alone nights and weekends. DH works from home for less than he would otherwise make, while our child is in daycare. We are financially stable, but we’ve had to make major lifestyle changes. We lived in a small apartment for a long time to save money for a house. I drive a 16-year-old car, and when it dies, I’ll replace it with another old car. We only have one child, in part (but only in part) because it would take some major lifestyle changes to be able to afford a second. We take vacations using credit card points and/or combine personal and business trips (about once a year), or when family members pay for us to join them or let us stay at their place. DH and I have a lot of “free” time outside of work, but we do all the housework and yard work ourselves and cook almost every night. We try to reduce our own consumption of just about everything, and tie it to both saving money and environmental impact when we talk to our child about it. Our only debt is mortgage debt and a low-interest car loan for the family car. We consistently monitor how much we’re spending, talk about our budget, and cut back when we start slipping into habits we can’t really afford.
anon
That job is a problem when combined with the lifestyle she wants to live and her law school debt.
Good god people. I was not trying to say that it’s unacceptable to make 70k. Fine, he needs a better paying job, too. Can’t believe you tried to read gender bias into this.
anon
Oh come on. You’re deliberately misinterpreting what I’m saying so that you can be offended. I never said there was anything wrong with a lawyer making 70k. I wrote that there’s nothing wrong with what she’s doing except that she is not making enough money to pay for her lifestyle choices and financial obligations. She’s not in a job that fulfills her. She’s not even in a legal job- she’s an insurance adjuster. She has a law degree which, generally, means she has high earning potential, but she did not take the steps necessary to develop that potential. A person who deliberately chooses a fulfilling but low paying career (and who is not drowning in debt) but who could work a job that pays more if necessary is *not the same thing.* We are talking about a person who is in tremendous debt, harming other people (her parents) with her debt, and her failing to earn more money is one of the ways she’s contributed to her financial situation. Want to send your kids to private school and go on vacay and have a fancy house? Earn more money. That’s not snobby.
Look, I went to a great law school and wanted to do public interest work that would give me a life and let me do something I cared about. I graduated in the crash. I had to take a job in private practice that is not fulfilling and does not give me work life balance so that I could pay my loans and buy myself food. That’s a responsible choice. As it is I make much less than many of my peers in larger firms. A few years ago I was in the running for some public interest jobs that would have paid me 65k but I decided I couldn’t make that choice work for me financially. Obviously I don’t think there’s anything wrong with not making tons of money as a lawyer. Of course, you didn’t know that, you simply assumed I was being a jerk. Why can’t you just accept on good faith that I am not trying to be a snob? This kind of commenting just makes it difficult to post here when every comment is subject to cross exam by someone who wants to take it personally. No one would ever manage to get any comments posted if they had to spell out each little thing and preemptively sooth everyone who might possibly get offended.
Never too many shoes...
There is a lot wrong with a lawyer making $70K when her family is in a financially unstable situation that could result in catastrophe at any moment. A lot.
Unpopular take, but I am so tired of all the “follow your bliss” attitudes about employment in the world. Your first responsibility to your family is to keep a roof over their heads, keep them fed, keep them safe, healthy and education. If you choose to have three kids, that is a big financial commitment, so you may just have to consider taking the money job and not the “brings you inner joy” job. Choices come with consequences.
Anon
“Unpopular take, but I am so tired of all the “follow your bliss” attitudes about employment in the world.”
I agree wholeheartedly. It hurts people who need better advice, and it hurts sensible people who are pushed out of higher-paying jobs because it is assumed that they will “follow their bliss.” (Yes, this happens.)
cbackson
The part when they said they put their student loans into forbearance but still bought a house was when I suspect they started to go off the rails – like, early on they didn’t make the connection that they actually needed to adjust their lifestyle to their financial situation. And they’ve never really made it since. If you have massive debt, then you take the higher-paying job even if you’ll be away from your kids more. You consider whether you’re going to have a third and fourth child. You send your kids to public school. You don’t shop at Whole Foods. The whole thing seems almost willfully self-destructive.
There are tons of things they could have done that would have still allowed them to have a lifestyle that was better than the vast majority of Americans but wouldn’t have saddled them with this kind of debt burden.
Ellen
I agree with the OPs that say we need to be more fruegel if we are to survive in this male dominated society. Once we start getting equal pay for equal work, we can THEN afford to eat out more often and take out morgages that are NOT guaranteed by our dad’s. I think we all need to stand up to stupid borrowings and stop doeing it b/f we get caught in that trap. FOOEY on unscrupulus lenders that charge 15% interest or more on their loans!
kat in VA
TBH, Over $200k in the suburbs of a northeast city is *still* middle class.
Seafinch
I know a number of people who live like this. It is appalling and actually stresses me to worry about friends who operate like this, and as mentioned, the lessons being conveyed to their kids.
Torin
The part I can’t get over is the comment that he doesn’t even know how to check the student loan balance. Being in debt is one thing (plenty of people are for plenty of valid reasons) but having no idea how to even check your balance is just … a level of denialism I can’t even fathom.
Vicky Austin
That hurt to read.
anon
Oh my god, so may terrible, terrible choices. And refusal to take any type of responsibility for their situation. They have a garden so they can have fresh vegetables instead of going out and having a decent meal somewhere? (Am I supposed to feel pity and admiration for your hard work at having a garden?) But then a few sentences later they spend tons of money on organic food and fresh produce? They don’t have any clue what they’re doing. They’re trying to play it off like it’s not their fault because “they” have made it so easy to get loans. Ughg. These people are fools. Could be real, but almost seems like “How to lose a guy in 10 days” except for it’s “How to lose all your money, assets, become destitute, and teach your kids how to make poor choices, in 10 days.” A how-to, but in reverse!
SC
That really hurt to read. The most troubling part to me is their avoidance. I know it’s typical of anxiety, and they’re super stressed out. But they don’t know their balances. He didn’t tell her that he kept the car after the lease. They didn’t ask an accountant what their tax liability would be after cashing out their 401K. Their kids don’t know, and they don’t have to know the details, but there’s no way to adjust your lifestyle without being honest with the kids about what you can and cannot afford.
Also, they’re in complete denial. They think as long as they’re getting a good deal–like a reduction in private school tuition–they can afford it. They talk about how vacations and going out to eat aren’t fun because they can’t afford them–but they don’t seem to consider not going on vacation or out to dinner an option. They talk about how much they spend on organic and vegan foods, and prepared food, without considering other grocery options. It’s totally nuts.
busybee
I don’t know if the “we’re only married because we can’t afford a divorce” or the “our kids have no idea this is happening and we’re not teaching them the value of money so we are spawning a new generation of financial know-nothings” or “my parents scrimped and saved their whole lives and then they gave us their life savings and we totally blew it” is the most troubling part to me. Absolutely mind boggling.
SC
Those are all good candidates, really.
Anon
These people need to sell their house, move to a small two-bedroom apartment, pull their kids out of private school, sell their cars and pay cash for an old one or bike and walk everywhere, cut up every credit card, make every single meal at home (every single one), sell possessions to consignment shops, get additional side hustles, ax every bit of their entertainment budget, and START. PAYING. THEIR. DEBT. Omg.
Anon
Honestly, even half of that would make their lives feasible. Cut the cost of housing in half, cut the cost of school to (almost) zero for public school, take a higher-paying job – have an extra $50k a year.
The problem with complete deprivation is that it’s the crash diet of financial planning: unsustainable in the long run. They need to get on stable ground, and that means adding income and cutting costs.
Anon
I think everything I suggested should be a permanent change (except for entertainment budget – might be good to add Netflix or a museum pass back in). It’s not “deprivation” to live in an apartment that is appropriate for your income or to cook at home exclusively or to bike instead of leasing new cars.
Anon
If you bike to work in the northeast, you are living very, very close to work, which is often more expensive than having a car.
I’m from the Boston suburbs. The cheapest way to live there is to move out to the 495 area and deal with the brutal commute, or take commuter rail in.
anon
Yikes, I couldn’t even finish it, I was stressing out for them.
Senior Attorney
Same here. Skimmed it but couldn’t bear to read the whole thing.
I was in a similar situation about 20 years ago with six figures of student, consumer, and income tax debt. My then-husband and I knuckled down and paid it off in three years and never looked back. To this day I don’t have any non-mortgage debt. The very idea gives me the willies.
Anon
I think after reading all these comments I won’t read it. Sounds like it will just stress me out!
Seventh Sister
These people are moochers and takers, and I feel bad for their kids because there’s probably a ridiculous amount of stress in that house. I know people in similar straits with kids in private schools, and I get jealous about that because *my* kids aren’t getting a 24 karat education for K-12.*
I wish I could be a bigger person, but I just have to put it out of my mind before I go insane. The only bright spot is that we mostly met through the kids, and the families seem to be “moving on” to other people that they can try to take advantage of since I’ve been a little too busy to help them out lately.
*I love my public school and believe in public education, but I still envy the lawns and uniforms and fancy extras (especially since I don’t find their kids more interesting or brilliant or deserving than my own).
Anon
Their kids are getting dinner from the Whole Foods salad bar every night; I don’t feel that bad for them.
Anon
Fwiw, I went to HYP with a lot of prep school kids (I went to Midwestern public school) and although I think most of them got a good education and obviously getting into the Ivies is easier from those schools, the environment was pretty toxic and competitive. I didn’t envy them and I choose not to send my own kids to private school, even though I could afford to.
Seventh Sister
That does make me feel better – I went to an elite college from a pretty middling-to-not-great rural public school, and was prepared for the academic work but very intimidated by the professors. (I had a number of K-12 teachers who would have been pretty lost in class without an answer key for the textbook.) Thank you!
What also drives me crazy with the people like this in my own life is that they’re the last people to reciprocate a dinner invitation, pay you back for a group gift, and the first to complain about the price of anything that wasn’t their idea.
LaurenB
They sound like morons to me. Absolute morons. How dumb do you have to be not to understand that a credit card is merely just a way not to carry around wads of cash, and that you pay it off every month, and that if you can’t, you shouldn’t be buying the thing in the first place unless it is an extreme emergency? These people didn’t mention that they are caring for elderly relatives or that they have unusual medical bills. They just … buy what they want, when they want it, and then act surprised that they are in debt. Very little sympathy here.
Anonymous
My ex-boyfriend was a bit of a mess and over the two years that we dated, frequently questioned our relationship and whether he was happy in it. Like, things would be going great and then he’d have a bad day and spiral into this doubt about whether we should be together. Not fun.
In retrospect I think this really affected me. Because now I’m just starting to date a new guy and am feeling more insecure than I ever have in the past. I know rationally he is showing a normal amount of interest, but I don’t fully trust it, and every time I email/text him and he doesn’t write back instantly, I start thinking he’s not interested anymore, that I did something to annoy him, etc. I feel anxious waiting for him to reply and it’s really hard for me to focus on something else. Then he’ll write back soon enough and be like “sorry I had a busy day,” and everything is fine and I feel dumb for fearing the worst.
I think/hope eventually I will be able to chill but I’m hoping for some suggestions/perspective so I am a little less crazy and can actually enjoy this early part of dating instead of constantly feeling worried that it might end.
NOLA
This may sound drastic, but after my marriage fell apart and my ex threw a lot of blame my way, I saw a therapist to get my head on straight about men and him and what was true about me or just in that relationship. It allowed me to break patterns and choose more wisely and understand what I need and want.
Monday
Not drastic at all–therapy is a perfectly reasonable option.
Anon
Why is seeing a therapist drastic?
NOLA
I don’t know. It just feels like people here recommend therapy a lot, but for perhaps less dramatic reasons.
AIMS
I find it helpful to remind myself about all the times I was wrong in the past and also all the times I didn’t care about something similar to remind myself about how subjective this all can be. E.g., if I’m worried about a health thing, I’ll think “remember that time I was convinced I had a brain tumor?”
anon
I have the same issues as OP sometimes and try to follow this rule, but then my brain says, “well what about those times where you were right?”
For OP, I recommend therapy (seriously, this may seem like a minor problem but it’s growing out of thought patterns that might be making a larger impact on your life than you realize and therapy could have unexpected benefits) and Brene Brown’s books. I started with Daring Greatly.
S
Honestly, the ‘falling in love’ part that’s supposed to be so fun and intoxicating was mainly full of similar anxiety for me for similar reasons. We built up trust/communication naturally and I was able to gradually relax into falling in love and enjoying it. I was putting a lot of undue pressure on myself to be purely delighted and worry-free for the early parts of dating, because they’re supposedly the ‘best’, but that hasn’t been my experience at all!
Torin
I think it’s common for a bad relationship to mess with your head, and I think you’re a self-aware person who has the introspection to realize that’s what’s happening and tell yourself to calm down. That’s a good sign. You’re not “crazy”. You might try meditation or look into a therapist if you feel it might be useful to help with the anxiety, but I think what you’re experiencing here is pretty normal and it sounds like you’re handling it fine.
Anon
No suggestions but I’m pretty much in the same boat! It sucks.
Senior Attorney
I can commiserate. I was like this with my wonderful husband when we were dating. I was in therapy and my shorthand with my therapist was to talk about it in terms of object relations: Like when a baby is too little to know that objects have permanence, and she cries when the ball rolls behind the couch because she thinks it’s gone forever. If my then-Gentleman Friend didn’t call for a day or two, I’d really truly be convinced he was ghosting me, and my therapist would say “no, the ball is just behind the couch.” And it always rolled back out, but man. It was hard.
I told him about it after we were married and he laughed and said “I didn’t want to call every day because I didn’t want to seem too eager!”
Gail the Goldfish
Horse owners: i’m considering buying my first horse. Talk me in or out of it. Background-I have been riding since I was a kid (now in my early 30s) but have never owned my own horse (had a free lease for a year or two in high school before I went to college). Currently only ride once a week but could ride 3-4 times a week if I had my own horse. Don’t show and don’t have much interest in showing. I estimate owning will cost me about 4-5x what I pay just for lessons now, but is well within my budget thanks to the fact I am very close to paying off my student loans which will free up a significant chunk of cash. Am I crazy?
Anon
Not crazy if you can afford it, and by afford it, I mean you max out your 401k, have additional savings, including horse savings, and no other debt. I’m a former equestrian who wants to ride again and I know how much joy it can bring, so if you have your financial house in order, go for it!! Please report back if you do decide to buy one – would love to hear how it works out.
Anonymous
Pay off your loans, solidfy your emergency fund, make sure you are maxing your retirement, build a horse emergency fund (vet bills are not cheap), research animal health insurance, then buy your horse.
Horses are a great investment – exercise and animals are good for mental health. There are way worse things to spend your money on (side eyeing the excessive number of handbags in my closet).
CountC
I had to chuckle at the horses are a good investment part. IMO, nothing that can drop dead at any moment/die (it’s happened to friends of mine) is a good investment. We always say to make a small fortune in horses, you have to start with a large one!!
Joking aside, I have owned my current horse for 11 years now. I am very fortunate that he has no major issues (regular steel shoes are fine!), but he does require some maintenance (injections, supplements, etc.).
My advice is similar to the others in that if you can afford it, truly afford it, then go for it. I would caution you to not but a cheap horse that is too green for you just because it’s cheap. That hardly ever ends well.
Apologies if you already know these things, but here are some additional considerations off the top of my head.
Will you board at the barn where you ride now? Do they have space? Do you have to utilize the trainer there to buy if you stay there (pay commission)? Will the trainer work with you as willingly on a horse you find yourself vs one they find for you? If it’s frowned upon to buy your own, do you have a backup barn that has open spots? Is there a lesson program you have to participate in?
What does board include? Do you have to hold your own horse for vet/farrier, etc.? If blankets are appropriate where you live, does board include changing those?
Do you have a vet you trust to vet the horse for you? What negatives in a vetting are you willing to accept?
Do you need to buy more equipment or do you have tack already? Do you live in a climate where you will need blankets?
I love having a horse but it of course comes with a whole new level of stress!
Is it Friday yet?
+1 Horse ownership is a study in “hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.” Sometimes, when they drop dead it’s almost better – at least then they’re not continuing to rack up thousands in vet bills.
Horses NEVER cost just board, shoes, shots. There’s always something extra – maybe you get a mare and then realize she needs to be on regumate, maybe the horse is a little ouchy and needs injections or special shoes, etc. ALWAYS. I have one that reared in the paddock – tore his meniscus and had some sort of crushing injury in his hock (I declined to pay $5200 for the MRI that would have told me exactly what, but that would not have changed the treatment plan one whit). He was on stall rest/tack walking for a MISERABLE six months (he’s murderous on the best of days), during which he colicked and spent a weekend at the vet clinic, then another six months of rehab – probably cost me close to $20k in a year, when all was said and done. That’s a bit dramatic worst case (I’ve had my mare for almost 12 years, she’s been lame once or twice but they were just abscesses and one $5k colic weekend), but it totally can happen – or worse.
Financial planning wise, I’d make sure you can scramble enough for an emergency colic surgery (approx $10-12k minimum, in my area at least, and the clinics make you pay a big chunk of that as a deposit as you walk in the door) and hope you never need to!
Also, don’t go off on your own and buy a horse – if this is your first it’s worth paying a commission to a trainer you trust. Or at the least, bring a friend that’s been around the block a few times. There are lots of people out there who will misrepresent animals, and if you’ve never done this before, there’s a decent chance you’ll get suckered into something not totally appropriate (note, I spent a few years in my twenties getting paid to ride/fix such mistakes, I speak from experience and “but he’s so pretty!1!!” is an expensive mistake to make).
That said, having the right horse of your own is pretty fantastic, and I wouldn’t trade my mare for all the financial stability in the world.
CountC
So true!! I should have added that I would recommend you insure your horse for major medical and mortality. The premium will depend on the value of your horse (I think my rate is 3.7% value for a hunter), but for me, it’s worth it as I could not afford to replace my horse anywhere near his value without it and, with the $500, I will be okay on colic surgeries and the like until I hit my max. Knock on wood!
A friend of mine blew threw her horse’s insurance (6 fig horse) because it ended up with some weird unidentifiable condition and spent weeks at the vet clinic before being put down. She had another one freakishly injure itself and be put down. Another had one came up with EPM and need to be put down and had to fight with insurance to get paid. We’ve actually had two in the barn since I’ve been there with EPM that had to be put down. I rode with a girl who bought a high five figure horse and a week later it ruptured its jugular internally in the paddock and died.
And then you have my horse, who is the second cheapest one in the barn, who has not had any major issues!! It’s such a crapshoot. A rewarding crapshoot, but a crapshoot nonetheless!
CountC
Wow, lots of typos . I meant a $500 deductible
Is it Friday yet?
As a note, because I know people who did not realize this, even if you have major medical on the horse, you still have to come up with the money for a colic surgery up front at the clinic. The insurance reimburses you, but, at least around here, the clinic will not admit your horse without at least $5k down for a medical colic, and like $8-10k down for surgical.
Also, there are exclusion periods, so if your horse colics once, it’s not covered for a second colic for a certain time period. Same with injuries – if it hurts its left front, the left front isn’t covered for anything else for a year or two.
CountC
Great points!
I had a front leg exclusion for several years on mine from coffin bone injections they had been doing on him before I got him at age 5!! Aye yi yi.
horse girl
SmarkPak makes a supplement, ColiCare that if you keep your horse on, they will pay up to $7500 in colic surgery reimbursement. I think it’s a great product and it appears they do too. There are some requirements, such as no round bales, but horses shouldn’t be fed round bales anyway.
Equestrian Attorney
Just a warning that people don’t consider, in addition to the general warnings about costs – healthy, well-kept horses can live a LONG time. My show pony (generously purchased by my parents in my teens) was retired eight years ago and is still the picture of health. That’s great, but nice retirement places for horses are not cheap. I’ve been lucky in not having too many vet bills or shoes (since he lives in a pasture), but he still gets trims, the dentist, deworming meds, blankets when it’s cold, liability insurance, etc. and costs me about $250 a month on average, for a horse I no longer ride. I can’t afford a new horse as long as I’m paying for that.
With that caveat, I loved having my own horse. You get a freedom and intimacy you will never have with someone else’s horse, and I was in really good shape when I was riding four times a week. Once the pony passes away and I get over being devastated about it, assuming I am on solid financial ground, I will most likely purchase another.
CountC
Yes!! My childhood pony lived to be 37 and my current horse is 18 with absolutely no issues.
Gail the Goldfish
I’d be buying a horse my trainer has on commission for the owner of the barn. My trainer, for lack of a better term, “flips” horses for people in that she trains them up for a year or so and then sells them, which means she’s got a pretty constant rotation of horses in various stages of training in her lesson program, but also means that all of my favorites eventually get sold right as they’re getting really nice. So i’m considering buying my current favorite before someone else does. I could keep her on the property and board is fairly cheap because i’m not required to take lessons. Only downside is the barn is further from my house than I’d like (other barns are closer but considerably more expensive as they require lessons/training programs and are much fancier. My barn is decidedly chill.)
Horses horses
I opted for a more chill (less drama) barn much further away from my house. I hate the drive but I when I get to the barn I’m so so happy. And the Sunday afternoon post-ride barn beers are so fun.
I think it’s a great idea to buy a horse out of a training program. Hopefully that means you’ve had a chance to get to know this horse – you’ve ridden it more than once, you know of any stable habits like cribbing etc. It’s a much safer option than buying the unknown horse (or like in my case, buying horses from Europe, ha), but of course with horses things can still go wrong, so build up a good emergency fund.
Have fun!
CountC
+1 chill barns FTW. Even though I ride at a show barn, it’s still fun and pretty chill, and the people are wonderful. No drama really, and there are days when I am the only one riding (which I need from time to time).
Anon
Also, you might consider reposting next week in case some of the regular horse-y readers are out for the holiday.
Anon
If you love it and can afford it – DO IT! The amount of money I pay to golf every month would cover a horse, though that’s limited to April-October. If you always lease him to someone for a day or two a week to help offset some of your costs and get him exercised a little more.
Horses are so good for the soul. My long-time best friend who happened to have 4 legs died peacefully a few years ago in his late 30s, and though it’s better now that I’ve restarted golf, have taken up some new hobbies and have a smaller 4 legged friend, I’m hoping to share a horse with my sister some day in the not-too-distant future.
Horses horses
Expect it to cost more than you think. Having said that, owning horses (yeah I have two) has made incredible improvements to my life – I have goals, motivation, amazing barn friends and good health because I am outdoors and active, and I love it. But, sometimes I look at Mint how much I am spending on my horses and I’m horrified. I could probably be retired by now if I didn’t have them. But, then again, while they are a big debit on my accounts, they are a huge credit on the mental health account (most of the time…).
One thing that helped me is having my horse leased out two days a week. The lessor contributes $250-300 per month and that helps with the board costs, and the horse gets exercised more which is good.
Anon
Since this is an anonymous blog, could you share what you spend? I’m considering making horses a part of my long-term financial plan, but it can be so hard to truly estimate what a typical person spends and how to plan for exact amounts.
CountC
I’m all over this thread, but I am happy to share my costs. Keeping in mind I don’t show regularly (once or twice a year) and my horse has been super sturdy and uninjured for 11 years (I hope I don’t curse myself).
I live in a LCOL location and my costs are as follows:
– Full board – $650/mo (includes horses being held for vet/farrier, blanket switching, feed, turnout, some hand-walking if necessary)
– Lesson program (a must for boarding at my barn) $240/mo, which is one lesson a week. I am not required to show, but it’s encouraged. The people who show take two lessons a week.
– Four Steel Shoes – $150 / 5 – 6 weeks
– Supplements – $140/mo
– Routine vet stuff (vaccinations, coggins, etc., split barn calls) – ~ $300/yr
– Injections/maintenance – $1600 – $2000/yr
– Insurance – $2500/yr
– Blanket cleaning – $200 – 300 / yr
– Clippers/clipper blades – $200/$25 a blade (clip two to three times a year with one to two blades per clip)
– Replacement sheets/blankets (mine rips them up) – $100 – 200 / yr
– Tack: cheap schooling bridle – $70, couple different bits $50-75, saddle (used CWD – $3500)
– Apparel (note that you do not need custom stuff AT ALL), helmet $200 – 300 (although you can get cheaper schooling helmets), half chaps $700 (custom – 13 yrs old), full chaps $900 (22 years old), show boots $1200 (15 yrs old), schooling breeches – $75/pair (I buy consignment used tailored sportsmans). You can get cheaper stuff off the rack (chaps, boots, etc.), but based on my friends’ usage, you will have to replace it a lot more. My custom stuff has really stood the test of time and to me, was worth the investment.
And now I will go cry having typed that out!!!
Anon
Thank you for being open about it! I know it’s a lot, but it’s so worth it.
Owl Lover
I think about this, and compare it to the cost of owning a boat, and I think a Horse is more fun. You certainly engage with the Horse more, and you can have alone time, whereas its hard to go boating without other people.
Is it Friday yet?
There is such a huge range – a super fancy barn with indoor and beautiful turnouts might be $500 a month in Nebraska, and $2500 (or more) a month in Bedford, NY. Or you can keep a horse on field board or in your backyard. Some barns require that you have your horse in full training. Do you want to show? Is your horse a blanket destroyer or can it wear the same one for ten years? Is it an idiot that gets injured weekly in turnout? Does a change in the weather make its tumbly rumbly, or is it one of those freaks that can eat bad cow hay without issue? Shoeing and vet costs also vary by area (and whether you use the fancy shoer and USET vet or Joe Schmoe down the block). So many variables!
Horses horses
Happy to share.
Medium cost of living area
Monthly:
Board: 650
Training: 500
Vet misc averaged out over the year (routine stuff like vaccinations, injections, maintenance etc.): 300
Grain etc: 50
Insurance: 350
Shoeing 170-200 every six weeks
Then the annuals:
Clipping: $200 per clip plus sedation (my horse is a dragon)
Tack/blankets (replacements etc): $500
Each show ends up running about $500-1000, with championships being more than that all in (stabling, show fees, show coaching, diesel, hotel, etc.)
Right now one of my horses is in rehab so he’s costing around $2000 per month for his rehab facility but that includes board, feed, shoeing and everything, so it’s about the same as when he’s in full training.
The above doesn’t factor in the cost of my trailer and (really old) pick-up truck used only to haul.
I actually track my horse’s expenses separately in Mint, and running the numbers for the last 12 months was SHOCKING, but it’s been a very expensive year for both horses (one senior FEI horse who gets lots of maintenance, lots of training and goes to a lot of shows and one ding-dong baby horse who injures himself). There’s no reason for you to have expenses this high, in particular if you don’t want to show. Keeping a horse in show condition is dolla dolla bills.
Horse 1 trailing 12 month cost: $32,210
Horse 2 trailing 12 month cost: $23,831 (this is after insurance reimbursed about $3k of vet bills)
Holy cr*p that’s a lot of money.
Shenandoah
If you can comfortably afford it and have a healthy horse emergency fund established, it might not be a terrible idea. That said, if you can find a good free lease situation, do that. Horses can live a very long time. There are injuries and illnesses, and they may not be rideable for years at a time (or may need to be permanently retired from riding). There is a lot of risk in home ownership and you can avoid that risk while still having full-time access to a horse by leasing. Just something to consider. I grew up with horses and my family has always had horses. But I’m in my early 30s now and less interested in riding (mostly because I have a million other hobbies and am constantly pulled in many directions), but I’m responsible for taking care of my 11-year-old horse. And I love her dearly, but it’s absolutely affected my ability to save for retirement, take extended vacations, etc.
Hor$e$
Based on what you’ve said so far, I think that leasing could be a great choice for you. If you’re riding once a week now and looking to ride just a few times a week without shows, I suspect that you’re riding at an intermediate level. The horse world is filled with teenage horses that are no longer able to compete at the higher levels but are perfectly suited to performing at these intermediate levels for years and years. And these horses are often owned by people who will not sell them because they worry about losing track of the horse and having it fall into bad hands as it ages and become less useful. (I’m one of those people!) However, we will gladly lease the horse to someone for just the cost of board, shoes, and routine veterinary bills because (i) it saves us money since we’d be paying those bills anyway, (ii) we don’t have time to keep an additional horse in work, and (iii) we enjoy seeing the horse thrive in an age-appropriate job. The leasee benefits because (i) they don’t have to pay for major unexpected medical expenses, (ii) can easily walk away if the horse can no longer be ridden or they don’t want the horse, and (iii) aren’t responsible for the costs of caring for the horse after it’s retired.
I did this with one horse with several different leasees from when the horse was about 12 until she retired at age 21, and I’m now a couple of years in on an off-site lease of a different horse to two adult riders who are having a blast splitting him. Who you know and some luck are obviously key to finding an arrangement like this, but the many horse groups on Facebook make it a lot easier to connect horseless riders and riderless horses now than in the past. I recognize that there are many benefits to owning (e.g., emotional bond, control over decision making, no risk of having the horse pulled out from under you), but there are really amazing leasing opportunities out there that I don’t think people are often aware of.
If you do decide to buy and getting a good deal is a priority, I recommend that you spend a few months keeping a close eye on the market. By this, I mean searching for horses in your area that fit your parameters, taking note of their prices (you may need to create a burner e-mail and ask for prices if they’re not listed), and then watching how long the horses sit on the market and how those prices changes. Horse prices can be extremely exaggerated (e.g., a horse listed for “mid-four figures” horse can actually be $2,500 when you ask the seller for the price) and many horses sit on the market for a long, long time. I’m not advocating for tire kicking, but making some inquiries can go a long way to helping you understand whether your trainer is offering you a good deal or not. In my opinion, it’s definitely better to miss out on a good horse than to buy the wrong horse!
Panda Bear
Who’s lucky enough to be working today besides me? Happy almost Thanksgiving everyone!
KS IT Chick
That would be me. And I work Friday.
Panda Bear
OK, you’ve got me there, I do at least have Friday off. I started a new job earlier this year and while it’s mostly great, the PTO is very limited compared to most of my past jobs.
Betterandbetter
Same. Today and Friday.
Anonymous
I’m working, but I do it deliberately because boss always releases us shortly after noon. So a vacation day is kind of wasted.
Anon
I’m similar. I always know that I will be able to leave around noon on the day before a major holiday, so taking a full 8 hours of vacation is a waste. Instead, I’m flying out today at 6pm and back on Monday – taking Monday as a vacation day makes a lot more sense
Worry about yourself
Well, yes and no. It’s a waste if you don’t need the whole day off, but if you’re traveling to visit family, or hosting family and need the day to finish cleaning and start prepping the food, you take the day.
Anononymous
I mean…I usually get into the office between 9 and 9:30 and I’m excused at noon without using any PTO. So taking the day off (which would require using 8 hours of PTO) is by definition a waste of 5+ hours of PTO. I would take a vacation day if I had to travel. But it would still be wasteful.
Housecounsel
My entire team took the day off. I feel like someone has to be “here” (we are all teleworkers) but I am hoping that nothing urgent happens today. Theoretically I should be getting a ton of work done but I just feel unfocused.
Vicky Austin
Me too (and also on Friday!).
Anonymous
I am working today and Friday.
Anonymous
Me. And I technically have Friday off…but have a big end of the month deadline that means I’ll probably be doing some amount of work, from home.
Tired
Me…but I’m Canadian. Not everyone here is American!
sss
So what?
JTM
I’m lucky to WFH today thanks to daycare close but I’d rather be in the office! Working Friday as well.
Anon
I recently started working for the federal government, which means I haven’t accrued much leave time and thus am working today (with 2hr early dismissal) and Friday. And my office won’t let us telework until we’ve worked with the office for several years (don’t get me started on this policy), so will physically be at the office too.
Came from a company with ample leave and teleworking policies, so reallllly struggling / annoyed with this. *Sigh*
Betterandbetter
I’m a Fed too and your agency’s policy seems very strange if it does in fact take multiple years. The push has certainly been to promote telework. There is literally legislation about it. And a website. Telework.gov I wonder if there is room to change the policy?
Anon
Recently left the federal govt and my office was strictly no telework for no reason other than our director thought that people wouldn’t do anything if they were teleworking
Anon
Same here- here are a lot of trust issues in some offices
anon
i’m a fed too (USAO) and we can only telework on rare occasions. it’s so annoying.
Anon
I’ll check that out! I always thought the fed government was flexible, but my office is super rigid in terms of telework, flex time and leave (contrary to my impression during the interviews). It’s disappointing….
rosie
If you are in a union, check the CBA. When I was a fed the union had negotiated teleworking after a year of employment, so you could not telework until you’d been there a year.
fedanon
My agency allows one day a week after you’ve been there a year, and then you can increase yearly after that based on good performance reviews. Still subject to manager discretion for more than 3 per week though.
cat socks
I carpooled into work with my husband this morning so we can run some errands after work. I dropped him off and got to work by 7. Only to realize that I left my laptop at home. Drove back and WFH until I have to go pick him up later in the day. I have enough PTO. I should have just taken the day off!
Anon
If by working you mean meeting an old colleague for coffee under the guise of networking and mentorship and leaving my cell phone on so clients can reach me, yes! I am working!
sharkBite
Bwahahahaha!
Away Game
Today and Friday. le sigh
Worry about yourself
I am, but our office closes at 2PM so it’s not bad at all! Can’t wait to get home and make some pie!
Senior Attorney
I’m working and I also have a Rotary meeting to preside over at noon. (Had a terrible dream last night that I was at the Rotary meeting and hadn’t prepared and didn’t even know who the speaker was. And my clothing was not right in some vague but horribly embarrassing way. Ugh!)
At least the traffic was light this morning! And my son is coming home tonight!
Anon
I’m working but outside of a couple of conference calls, nothing has been happening this week. I took it as an opportunity to catch up on documenting my continuing Ed, submitting an expense report, and submitting EOBs to my healthcare reimbursement account. Now what?
Xarcady
I am, but we are closing 2 hours early.
The problem is, I am paid hourly and the company decided last month to expand the number of days we are closed over both Thanksgiving and Christmas. So in a 7 week span, I will lose 10.5 days of pay. And my 5 days of PTO is already used up, because I had no idea we’d close for 10.5 days instead of our usual 5 in November and December.
There aren’t many people in the company with hourly pay and such limited time off, so it’s not affecting everyone. All the salaried people are getting all the days off with pay and no reduction in their PTO.
So I’m scrounging for every hour I can get.
what to do with extra makeup samples?
Any suggestions about what to do with extra unused makeup samples that I don’t use, such as ones from Sephora or Birchbox (or other beauty samples)? Some of these I don’t use because I’m allergic to some ingredients, or I already have a brand I already like for that. I don’t have any younger girl cousins or nieces that would like these.
Does anyone know if there are any charities that would like these as donations?
Mostly it’s things like eyeliner, primer, foundation, spf creams (tldr I have allergies) and tanner.
sss
I’ve given them to a women’s shelter, and they seemed happy to have them. But really, I’ve stopped accepting them. It’s too much waste.
SW
I alternate between my local Dress for Success and Ronald McDonald House.
Leah
What’s your most hardcore lip product for “I smiled and my lip split open” levels of dryness? My usual balms (either organic or petroleum-based) are not cutting it.
AIMS
I really love Dr Lipp. Its the only one that really stays on for me & makes a difference.
SW
This is miracle stuff.
Anon
I tried Dr. Lipp from a Birchbox sample and I think it’s just like Vaseline. You can definitely get something similar for less.
Bluegreen19
Aquafor — I have tried so many lip products for my chronically dry lips, and I think Aquafor is the best.
pugsnbourbon
+1. I slather it on my lips and cuticles every night before bed.
younglaw
+2. I slather it all over my lips and once in a while all over my face.
My Condolences
ugh the worst. vaseline or aquaphor – gotta go hardcore for the split lip even if I look like a greasy mess
Torin
+1
Not the Aquaphor lip balm, the actual Aquaphor. The lip balm is for normal levels of dryness, and not as good as the regular stuff for lip-cracking levels IME.
Lots to Learn
I was researching this recently and saw a lot of recommendations for Lanolips, which seems to primarily be available at Nordstrom. Also recommendations for Aquaphor. But will be following this thread with interest.
Monday
I have a sneaking suspicion that Aquaphor recently changed its formula. It used to be my HG but lately has been sending me into that cycle of lip balm dependency where your lips feel ultra dry almost immediately after applying! I’ve switched to Bite Beauty agave lip balm, which of course is about 3x the price. However, I only have to apply is 2-3x/day so I assume it will last much longer, and now my lips look and feel right again.
When you’re at the lip-cracking point I’d suggest a coat of Vaseline first.
Isabela the She Wolf
Hydration so the layers if skin underneath don’t crack too. Once you stop it from self-perpetuating, it’ll heal within a say or so.
JTM
Laniege Lip Sleeping Mask (can wear all the time, not just at night) and then Aquaphor when they’ve healed a bitt.
Anon
+1 to the laneige
I also love R+F Lip renewing serum for maintenance (I have seriously not had dry lips for 2 years since I started using this stuff) but you have to find a non-pushy R+F distributor. Luckily a friend of a friend sells it just to get the discount for herself so she is super easy to work with.
anon a mouse
I’ve used pure lanolin (in the baby section) for really serious dryness. It can be sticky, so I find it works best if I put it on at night and let it soak in while I sleep.
Anonymous
+1
Cynthia
+2 Lansinoh
You could also try bag balm (CVS)but it smells medicinal. Was originally designed for cow udders.
Anonymous
Bite Agave Lip Mask. Second place award goes to Aquaphor. Things I’ve tried that didn’t work as well: Laniege Lip Sleeping Mask, pure lanolin, Lanolips, Dr. Lipp, Fresh Advanced Therapy Lip Balm, Nuxe Rieve de Miel, EOS, Glossier Balm dotcom…
Never too many shoes...
Nipple cream for overnight – works better than anything else I have ever tried.
Kate R
I just made a lateral move and am trying to build some good habits right away, during the slower “onboarding” phase. Any office routines you have that help structure your life? I’m thinking Lysol wipe my desk once a week, take my office cardigan home every X days to wash it, write one handwritten note every two weeks, keep a list of articles I want to read later, etc.
P.S. I’m a regular reader and I think a version of this life/habit re-set question has probably been asked before… but I can’t figure out how to search for it.
Jo March
I always pack up my stuff and the end of the day (forcing me to organize my desk in the process) and make a list for the next day. Then, I do the easiest task on that task (often a 3 minute email I was procrastinating on, or a 2 minute form to fill out). It takes 5 minutes total and allows me to start the morning with one thing already crossed off my list.
Jo March
That should read “..at the end of the day” and “easiest task on that list.” I guess my brain is already on PTO…
Anonymous
Nice! Thanks for the tip.
anon
I do the list thing too. Make it for the next day before I leave. It also helps me not think about all the things I have to do while I’m trying to fall asleep at night.
I also try to take some time on Fridays to go through my email inbox. I’m one who files all of my emails when I’m done with them so I like to go through everything on Fridays. It also helps me catch things that may have slipped by earlier in the week.
Anonymous
I fully clean my office once a month with cleaner…desk, shelves, keyboard etc. I have it on my outlook calendar and don’t let myself “dismiss” the reminder until it’s done (even if it takes me a day or two to get to). It does feel so great to sit down to a clean desk, definitely motivating.
Anonymous
I hate hate hate buying holiday gifts each year, especially for my MIL and SIL. It’s so hard to come up with ideas for things that they might like.
I would really like to find some “annual” gifts, so that I give them the same thing or the same type of thing each year. I need to simplify & the stress out of the whole thing. Does anyone have any suggestions for adults?
I have found one good “annual” gift that works really well for my god children — each year I get them a different piece from a creche set. I buy from Fontanini. By the time they’re adults, they’ll each have a really nice set that they can enjoy each year.
Veronica Mars
No. Nope. Nope. Nope. If you hate giving gifts, don’t bother coming up with some scheme for an annual gift. Just go to Nordstrom, pick a gift in your budget and be done with it. Mentally disconnect from the burden of finding something they will like. Or, do what I do for the ultimate lazy gift, gift baskets! Consumables are popular and you can literally order way in advance, and ship directly to the recipient on the date you choose. So simple and easy. You could do an entire year’s worth of gift-giving in one afternoon alternating between cookies, fruits, wine, cooking supplies, candies, etc.
Tetra
+1 I hate giving gifts too (I’m just not a gifts person, and don’t love getting them either!) so I do fancy teas, fancy chocolates, fancy wine, baking mixes/accessories from Williams Sonoma, etc. Seems to generally go over well.
Anonymous
Just keep dietary restrictions and “clean eating” trends in mind. I feel guilty over the gift basket food I’m medically restricted from eating and can’t find anyone else to take because everyone’s on a diet (I don’t know what’s wrong with my generation, but an actual majority of my friends are watching their A1Cs right now). Other than that consideration, food is great.
Cb
A subscription you could renew? A selection of 3 hardback new releases?
Alternatively, let your husband take over?
AttiredAttorney
Yes to a subscription! I love giving monthly flower arrangements from Bouqs, coffee of the month, or cheese of the month type boxes (always cosumable, and usually a 3 or 6 month package). Or even just magazine subscriptions to topics I know the recipient is interested in (beading, cooking, rock climbing).
Ouch! That hurts
Beautiful annual journals, note books, calendars …. thinking Gallery Leather type…
it’s hard hard hard, I get it.
Anon
+1 – I usually do a nice set of notecards (not occasion specific) or origami paper and a neat coffee table-type book.
Anonymous
Consumables not collectibles are the way to go with this. Wine, fancy local alcohol, chocolates, fancy food gift baskets etc. If you travel maybe pick something from the location you visited that year. Don’t have to buy it there but basically sharing the new foods/drinks you discovered. Scottish shortbread, Bermuda rumcake, Belgian chocolate, Greek olive oil etc.
anon a mouse
We recently received a gift basket from the fresh pressed olive oil club and it is really lovely. Way nicer than I would buy for myself.
AIMS
Budget?
On the higher end, you could do tickets to something (maybe that you can all three see together?). On the lower, you could do a plant (maybe something with a life span like an amaryllis or paperwhite so they don’t get overrun with plants in short order) or a magazine subscription? A friend’s mom used to send me a subscription to a different cooking magazine every year and I always looked forward to that. Another family friend gets basically everyone in her family a different calendar tailored to their interests, which I think is really cute and a nice tradition, but I love calendars. If they’re paper planner types, you can give them nice ones every year.
Vicky Austin
+1 to calendars! My sisters and I gave each other calendars every year growing up.
Anonymous
Counterpoint, I really dislike calendars. Go right into the bin (or salvation army) if I get one.
Housecounsel
Same. It’s just more paper.
Anon in NYC
If they like sweets, you could splurge on fancy chocolates (like a Maison du chocolat box). My mom used to get my dad a box of something from London every year (can’t remember what it was), but it was the only time he had them, so it was something he savored. My husband used to get his grandmother a fancy box of chocolates for Christmas because she didn’t want/need stuff.
Another idea, if they’re into cooking and like truffles, is to buy them a truffle and a truffle shaver, and then buy them a truffle annually. Or, perhaps caviar (try Russ and Daughters). I love caviar on NYE, and almost never purchase it otherwise since it can be pricy.
nutella
Where do you buy the truffles?
Anon in NYC
I’d start with Urbani Truffles.
Scarlett
Depending on your budget, I’m a big fan of the small leather items by Cuyana – I especially like the makeup bag sets, the mini jewelry case, and the passport covers. They’re all under/around $100 and have a luxury feel. I have a small holiday list though, so your budget might be different.
Vicky Austin
My “lazy” gift formula is pretty scarf from Gap/Old Navy + interesting candle.
Anon
In-laws are husband’s job, but for anyone I don’t know well, this year they’re getting gift sets of Penzey’s spices.
Other than these examples, I tend to give experiences/expeirience-tied gifts. Niece likes horseback riding: gift certificate to her barn. Nephew is excited for the class trip to Washington, DC: book about DC and a gift card to Target for supplies.
Anonymous
Other suggestions: spa gift certificate (mani/pedi/massage/facial/etc), gift certificate to a store you know they love (makeup, Nordstrom, their hair salon, bookstore, REI, movie tickets), nice bottle of wine or champagne, my friend makes refrigerator magnets with pictures of kids/grandkids/dogs, holiday decorations.
Housecounsel
Spa gift certificate. Make it a tradition.
AttiredAttorney
Costco has packs of Spa Finder gift cards right now – two $50 gift cards ($100 value) for just $79.99. I split these up to give as gifts during the holidays.
anon
I’m not a gift person either and hate the stress of coming up with ideas for people. Agree with others that consumables are the way to go. What about a fancy hand lotion and bar soap each year? Something like L’Occitane or Khiels.
Senior Attorney
Annual gifts can be consumables. Like the annual Harry and David Tower of Treats that shows up every year like clockwork. What’s not to love? I have a floral arrangement delivered to my mom every year for her Dec 22 birthday and she loves it and it’s super easy!
Anon
How about your husband buys gifts for his mother and sister and leaves you out of it?
Anonymous
Yes to your husband doing it! I do my family, he does his.
Tired
I love the pattern on this dress. Very pretty.
Thanksgiving Drama -- more stories requested
I’ll start:
Main toilet has gone rogue. Corrective efforts were tried and appear to be only moderately successful.
Please pray for us. And provide stories for my amusement while I await emergency professional assistance. I am convinced that this will lead to a 6-figure home remodeling project as it appears that the bathroom was made by tiling over existing tile and then stacking wax seals to make the toilet connect to the original pipes (or some other horror).
Anon
The toilet is clogged? It probably just needs a good snaking. Not sure how that would lead to a 6 figure home reno, it’s something a plumber can do in 10 minutes.
Anonymous
I get that — it seems that there is some fundamental problem with this bathroom also relating to a prior leak / subfloor damage. So it would probably just be a sign that a larger project that we have wanted to do for years (but held off to pay off school debt and until the kids were out of daycare) would finally get the greenlight. But, man, the timing of this is NO BUENO.
Anonymous
Oh god, this sounds like our former kitchen floor. It had like 6 layers of tile, with a little plywood filling in at some point. It was so weird.
Last year my Dad clogged the toilet within 12 hours of his arrival at Christmas, plus was convinced the heat was broken. This was at my friend’s fancy NYC coop apartment, so I was 100% sure the heat was either on or someone else in the building was on it, but they would not calm the f down about anything. Determined plunging eventually solved the toilet problem. Good luck!!!
Torin
The drain that leads out of half of our house is blocked — this is the half to which the kitchen sink and the washer and dryer are connected, which is better than if it were the bathrooms. It’s better to have a huge mountain of dirty dishes and laundry than to not be able to shower or use the toilet! But also: the pile of dishes is extreme and the plumber can’t come until Friday.
Fortunately the Thanksgiving meal is not at our house …
KS IT Chick
My sympathies on the toilet …. That’s always a Moment.
Our Thanksgiving Horror Story had to do with my brother & SIL’s oven. 2 hours into cooking the 25-lb turkey, the oven blew the whole house breaker. When my DH & brother got the power back on, the oven climbed to 600F and stayed there. They ended up shutting off power to the oven & stove top. The turkey moved to the next door neighbor’s oven, since they were out of town. The rest of Thanksgiving was cooked with a combination of a pair of electric skillets, the gas grill, a roasting oven & the microwave. And my SIL thanked us for bringing the big bottle of wine, which we proceeded to drink out of jelly jars. (Christmas that year included buying her a set of basic wine glasses.)
Senior Attorney
Oh, I’ve had something similar! One Thanksgiving my 50-year-old oven decided that was the day it was going to give up the ghost and the turkey literally turned black. It was edible, barely, but it was black. Still don’t know quite what happened.
And the replacement/minor remodel took so long that the following Thanksgiving there were no doors on the kitchen cabinets!
Anonymous
My in laws have a habit of not making holiday plans until the day of. Irritating since I’m a planner and I like to know what I’m doing waaay ahead of time to fully process and mentally prepare. They don’t celebrate Thanksgiving, and my family celebrates it on Friday, so I was REALLY looking forward to having Thursday free to do nothing- life has been insanely hectic for a while. Well. I just found out my in laws are doing Thanksgiving now and my plan is ruined. I know I could say “sorry I already have plans, need more advance notice than 24 hours”, but DH will be attending and this is not the hill I want to die on. I’m just really irritated that I have to leave my couch tomorrow.
Equestrian Attorney
My in-laws do this too! And my family plans things six months in advance (we are definitely planners). So either we do things with my family, since they always ask first, or I hold out under the notion that it’s DH’s family’s turn, which means last year we ended spending Christmas alone because no, they actually weren’t going to be there and did not bother to tell us until two days before. I mean, Christmas alone was surprisingly chill, but their complete inability to plan anything drives me nuts.
Anonymous
My favorite (least favorite) was the year they decided DH and I were actually hosting them and DH’s grandparents in our apartment. With like 3 hours notice. Our apartment is a tiny 1 bedroom third floor walk up, our dog FREAKS OUT when guests come over, we literally don’t have a dining room or a table or anything, grandparents really can’t do stairs and DH had to carry them. OMG.
Anonymous
Yes, I realized families like these are in the minority when people in yesterday’s thread were aghast about finalizing Thanksgiving plans on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving.
Anon
On Saturday, I was hosting a Friendsgiving for about 15 people. Have way through cooking, my kitchen sink stopped draining. So I had to finish cooking and serve dinner with no standing water in my sink and no ability to use it anymore
Cat
PSA: The JCrew Going Out Blazer is part of the 40% off sitewide sale (it doesn’t look like it from a quick skim but if you click to the product page, the 40% applicability shows up). It’s rarely included in promos so scoop it up if you’re interested!
Anon
Do you know if they’re likely to have more than 40% off this weekend? Or is 40% as good as it gets?
January
I wouldn’t hold out. I think at best, they might do 50% off one item or some sort of stacked promotion on Friday, but I don’t think you’re going to get better than 40% off many items.
Anon
It’s one (super expensive) item I have my eye on, so I’d be thrilled with 50% off one item. Maybe I should just get it now though.
AIMS
They’ve done price adjustments in the past if you called.
Vicky Austin
Factory is advertising 40-50% off sitewide right now though!
Mpls
Factory always has 40-50% off for something, though.
Cat
If it goes lower within 7 days, they will give you a price adjustment
Moose
I recently accepted a new position at my organization working on a small team, start date in a few weeks. Part of the deal was that new boss might be promoted and that was one of the selling points because I would get to work on big new project although nothing was guaranteed. Promotion has now happened but nothing has been announced yet and new boss is away for the holiday so hasn’t told me herself. Do I send a quick email saying I heard the good news and congrats or wait for new boss to share the news/for formal announcement to be made? I believe one of the reasons I was hired for the new position is that I have a lot of institutional knowledge so it doesn’t seem odd to me that I’d know before an announcement and is in fact a good thing as far as that goes, but my husband thinks I should just wait and not try to “show off.”
Anonymous
Wait for the formal announcement.
Anon
Wait for the announcement or for her to tell you. It is suppose to be kept quite till then, and could actually be throwing someone under the bus who shouldn’t have shared that news.
KB
i bought this dress but the material is not great, very clingy so not forgiving. It is going back
Eileen Fisher
Anyone know if Eileen Fisher does a Black Friday sale? I have my eye on some pants, which are already marked down from 168 to 78. Maybe I should go ahead and buy. But if they’re going to mark them down more tomorrow, I can wait….
Anon
I find their markdowns run out of sizes fast so I’d buy them now and then ask for an adjustment if they go on sale.
Reading recs
Hi all! Apropos of the thread above, I realized I’m enjoying books about people who live beyond their means or have spending problems. Fiction or nonfiction. Any suggestions?
cat socks
The Shopaholic series from Sophie Kinsella.
Torin
Persuasion, by Jane Austen, and Mary Anne by Daphne du Maurier.
In case you wanted confirmation that this type of problem is not a new problem. I have read Persuasion probably about six times, and it’s one of my favorite books. Mary Anne I read more recently and found it delightful. Mary Anne Clarke really existed and the bones of the novel are true, but du Maurier filled in the details.
not the OP but...
I loved Persuasion! I’m going to have to check out Mary Anne. Thanks!
cbackson
I’m quite fond of books that have these themes as well, particularly because I’ve been witness to a lot of northeastern WASP family wealth collapses in real life. I’ve enjoyed all of the following, which are a mix of fiction and memoir:
-The Talented Mr. Ripley, Patricia Highsmith
-The Privileges, Jonathan Dee
-Cheerful Money, Tad Friend
-Fathers and Sons, Alexander Waugh (only sort of in this genre, but super interesting if you like Evelyn Waugh)
-Hons and Rebels, Jessica Mitford
Cb
The Nest.
Anonymous
+1. and maybe We Could Be Beautiful, although it’s more romance.
Happy Reading
Capital, by John Lanchester
Lise
The Wangs v. The World by Jade Chang
Anonymous
Cartel Wives – written by the wives of two major drug traffickers in US/Mexico.
Nelly Yuki
The Wangs v. the World
Jules
Eligible, Curtis Sittenfeld’s modern take on Pride and Prejudice.
Anonymous
Ooh, this is a good rec!
Kate
Not books, but the documentaries Queen of Versailles and The Bling Ring are great.
Anonymous
Happy almost (American) Thanksgiving! Looking ahead to the gift giving season… What are on everyone’s wishlists and gifting lists? I’m looking for some inspiration. All price ranges welcome, especially those in the $25-$40 category.
Cb
I asked for plants and some slipper boots but I was reading Cup of Jo this am and now I really want a Caboodle.
DCR
I’m asking for a board game and a few books I want, along with some warm winter clothing for an upcoming trip to antartica
TheElms
Going to Antarctica is amazing. I went for my honeymoon and it is my lifetime favorite trip. It may not be that cold — we went Christmas to New Years and I was fine in my normal ski stuff, maybe even a little warm some days.
Anon
Trish McEvoy purse size kit with blush, powder, eye shadow stick, double ended brush, and lipgloss – $98
Eileen fisher silk pillow shams from garnet hill – $99 each before discount (expect a discount on Black Friday)
Fuzzy sleep socks from Target – $4
A big tub of Kiehl’s creme de corps, which will last me almost all year – $48 minus 20% Sephora discount because let’s be honest, I bought it already (but will give to DH to our under the tree)
A roomba because I already know my teenaged kids are getting this for me (yes, a vacuum for mom, wow, but I’m excited) – $? Don’t know which model
Little tubes of l’Occitane hand cream – $10ish each i think
anonshmanon
a cheese knife. We’re also moving and so I suggested to hubby that we buy each other some art for the new place.
SC
Consumable food products that I won’t buy myself–fig balsamic vinegar, fancy teriyaki sauce, spice rubs, etc. A cookbook (Anne Byrne’s American Cookie). Slippers.
Anonymous
I want a blanket scarf from Aritzia and sherpa-lined moccasin slippers and a bathrobe from L.L.Bean.
My cinephile husband got signed up to be a charter member of the forthcoming Criterion Channel and a Film Independent membership (the latter includes voting rights for the Independent Spirit Film Awards and invitations in film screenings in Los Angeles, although we are too distant to enjoy the latter perk). (He also got a LEGO advent calendar for his recent birthday.)
My outdoorsy dad loves to cook and wants a cover for one of his large cast iron pans so he could use it as a dutch oven; I have one by Lodge in my Amazon cart. Last year I bought him a Swiss Army chef knife and a blade sharpener. This year he was going to get a filet knife from a local outdoors shop, but he already bought it for himself.
Vicky Austin
I’m hoping for snow boots and a pretty new watch, and have been eying a cashmere sweater I might buy myself…
Cynthia
I want the pampered chef Large Square cool & serve to build fruit or vegetable trays to keep handy for my kids and husband to nosh on. We do a great job with fresh fruits and vegetables for the lunch boxes but not as well for at home.
Anon
I have 2/3 gifts figured out. Rancho Gordo bean assortment for one BFF and a bluetooth receiver for wired speakers/vintage receiveer for another BFF (who has a fab vintage stereo system).
I’m still working on the last one.
Anonymous
Article today in the WSJ about dressing up if you work from home. Article largely features women who are going to in person meetings as well as working from home. Other than that, largely ridiculous. The Twitter reaction, however, is winning. https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1065220839006773248?s=19
Anonymous
Hilarious
Anon
Thanks WSJ for another article telling women we’re doing it wrong.
And thanks twitter for recognizing the absurdity of it all.
Cranky guy T-day update
From yesterday’s post- thanks all. I told DH that Cranky guy is coming to my parents Tday (which had all been planned last minute) and he can choose to attend with me or stay home, with no blame, guilt or bad feelings on my part. He initially picked the stay home option then with zero further discussion fronmr, slowly realized how sad my Mom would feel and announced, I’m going and I’ll work on ways to deflect weird questions and consider temporary escapes (thanks Hollis I brought up your suggestions at that point). I’m grateful for learning good communication and grateful for the Hive!
Housecounsel
I am glad to hear this, even if I wish your parents would have been required to face the message that Cranky Guy is ruining holidays.
Anon
That sounds like it worked out really well! Props for giving him the space to make his own decision about it–I think empowering him to take responsibility for the issue will help keep it from being a wedge between the two of you. Good luck tomorrow!
Anon
I read too late yesterday and thought, well maybe cranky guy is always invited because he has nowhere else to go. Isn’t that what thanksgiving is about? Opening our homes to friends and family?
To OP, good for you for doing the right thing!
UGH! Trigger warning!
The office health program just sent out the second email for their holiday “weight maintenance” program. At least it’s not technically an employer sponsored weight loss program, but good grief! Attachment is the form they’ll be using for weekly “weigh-ins”.
It’s completely opt-in, and I’m sure some people here will appreciate it. But if this isn’t the last email about it, the organizer is going on my spam list (even though we’re really not supposed to do that to our coworkers).
anonshmanon
If you care, you could set up a filter instead. If email comes from that person AND contains the word weight, it goes to spam. But honestly, I would roll my eyes so loudly at all of this weight stuff at work!
JS
All I want for my holiday party this year is a velvet dress or jumpsuit, preferably under $100. Office is casual, party will is anything goes – everything from jeans and a blouse, to cocktail dresses to gowns. Anyone want to do some shopping?
Mpls
Gap has a midi-length wrap velvet dress in black and in blue. $80, I think? And 50% off of that for Black Friday. Ordered mine yesterday :)
anonypotamus
I don’t know if it’s under $100 (though maybe with some black Friday discounts), but Banana Republic definitely has a black velvet jumpsuit that looks fantastic on (one of my best friends just picked it up and wore it to dinner last weekend). Link to follow.
anonypotamus
she has this one: https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=396394002&cid=1107488&pcid=1107488
but this one also looks cute: https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=396334002&cid=1107488&pcid=1107488
Worry about yourself
Hope I’m not too late, but I’m wondering if any baking experts can weigh in here, I realized halfway into making a pie crust last night that the pastry flour was whole wheat, which I did not buy on purpose! It this a big mistake? Should I start over and make new pie dough with white flour tonight, and then make the filling and bake it tomorrow morning, or will it be fine enough (if not a little different than my usual pie crust) that I should go ahead and make the pie with the dough I made last night?
Anon
I would use a scrap of the dough you made last night to make a small pie in a ramekin (maybe a mini quiche with one egg) to see if you like it.
Baker
I would make your normal pie crust for the morning. I probably would experiment with the one you just made because I’m curious like that. But I would not trust that it would turn out well so wouldn’t ever serve to guests without a backup. Pie is serious business over here.
Anonymous
It will be fine. Maybe not best pie crust ever but it isn’t going to implode or anything.
Anon
Eeek…. There’s a pretty huge difference between whole wheat flour and any sort of white flour.
Did you mean whole wheat, or are you actually talking about all-purpose vs pastry? If you used all purpose, no biggie. If you used whole wheat, that won’t turn out well for you.
If you used whole wheat flour, I’d go to the store and buy some premade crusts unless you’ve got time for a do-over with all purpose. This coming from a pretty experienced baker who can sort out just about anything.
anon
I can’t tell if you’ve already rolled it out or baked it–if you have, then you’re probably golden. It’ll taste like a little like whole wheat bread, so truly boring pick eaters might fuss?
If you are talking about a ball/bowl of dough waiting to be handled, you might be in for frustration, because ww flour can be more brittle and contract more, so it will be harder to get the crust big enough to cover the pan, and easier to break it or tear it as you roll it out and lift it into the pan.