Coffee Break: 1980 Clutch

130 Comments

1. My daughter is home sick right now – what Christmas movie should we watch?

   9 yo. 2 brothers so she doesn’t get to pick usually. We don’t have Netflix.

   1. The original Miracle on 34th Street features a girl about her age. (Was it Natalie Wood?)

      1. yes! The 90s remake with Mara Hoffman is also a delight.

         Home Alone, if she hasn’t seen it?

   2. Spirited is really fun!

   3. Noelle if you haven’t seen it is great!

   4. Christmas Chronicles (the first one)

   5. My kids like Home Alone and Elf.

   6. While Your Were Sleeping!
      +1 for Spirited

      1. Oh also- Little Women any and all the versions!

   7. Muppet Christmas Carol!

   8. White Christmas (it’s on Prime). Rosemary Clooney is divine and it’s so silly and sweet and funny.

   9. Make sure she isn’t always second fiddle to her brothers! Not fun.

2. I love it. Not the price, but I love it.

   Budget shopper tip: have you been by a Gucci store lately? They have little purses with a bamboo handle and a bamboo piece on the snap / fastener. Lovely, no? I don’t want to know what they cost. What I do know, because I saw one being worn by Queen Maxima once in a picture, is that if you google “Susan Gail bamboo bag”, you can get a vintage one that looks just like the Gucci one for . . . maybe $100.

   1. Very cute! Fun tip thanks! But now of course I want the Gucci one.

3. I was a middle-class / lower middle class kid growing up where every parent was a bit of a striver for the next generation’s success, whether it was learning a trade, joining the military, or going to college to become a teacher. As I went to some fancy neighborhoods as a teen (for things like regional orchestra, admitted student receptions hosted by alumni), and then a SLAC and then law school, I am really surprised how many women drop out of the workplace at upper income levels. Maybe this is typical? But it is so hard to imagine a world where people have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on tuition on education starting with TK. I’m not sure what these women say to their daughters — study hard b/c you may not marry and have to work? I don’t mean to sound like a jerk — working many jobs with kids is a difficult juggle — it’s just a world that is really, really foreign to me. My mom was a teacher’s aide, so her schedule was our schedule and she could have done more (say had she been born in Hoboken) but was from a place where women really were pointed towards secretarial work (she was always a fast typist and could do shorthand), nursing, or being a teacher or otherwise working in a school.

   1. i have no idea if what you are talking about is really true or accurate but, asssuming it is, highly educated professional women are likely to marry highly educated professional men. once you take out the “have to work to make ends meet” piece of working some women (along with the spouses, some families) decide that they can afford to have someone be home.

   2. Here’s the hidden part of that: a lot of those women, not all but a lot, who married high earners, also come from money. Their mothers didn’t work and they’ll have a soft, if not luxurious, place to land if the money, meaning high earning partner, runs out. They were educated to enrich their lives and cultivate passions not to move up the socioeconomic ladder. This is really important to keep in mind when, like me, you’re the only mom at the fancy public school who still works.

      1. This. Also, if you peer past the veneer, lots of time there are complicated factors that caused them to take a step back (aging parents, needing to move for spouses job, and just plain burn out) that money doesn’t solve, it just means you don’t have have to burn the candle at both ends as fast.

         1. Yup. I guarantee that we would see a lot more women staying home to deal with caring responsibilities if the threat of homelessness wasn’t so salient at the moment. (Because while there’s more awareness that you shouldn’t be dependent on a man financially, good luck convincing a man to quit his job to care for his children and aging parents, not even considering that he likely is making more money than his wife.) So working class women are run completely ragged trying to keep up, and many people from less affluent families simply go without needed care.

         2. +1 on unseen, complicated factors affecting the calculation

         3. My husband and I both come from upper-middle-class families, though he has more generational wealth. We met in college, at a SLAC. I’ve always been the breadwinner, and DH used to have a “passion” job that paid about $45K for 60-hour weeks. When our son was around 2.5, it was clear he was neurodivergent and needed a lot of early intervention services. DH decided to step back from the work force to be the parent who picked our kid up early from daycare, drove him to appointments, etc. It allowed me to focus on my career, and I’ve more than doubled my income and found/ earned some flexibility at work.

            It’s been 6 years since DH stopped working. Our kid is doing much, much better. DH was starting to talk about a return to the work force (no real plan, but a concept of a plan), and then his dad had a medical crisis last month. We’re now in a “sandwich” phase that has us both exhausted and burned out, and we’re both in survival mode. As for what DH’s parents, who spent hundreds of thousands on his education, say about it–they say, “You’re doing a great job raising this kid,” and “Thanks for driving me to the doctor this morning.” Later, they may ask, “Can you host 13 people for Christmas dinner?”

            Most of the families at my son’s private school have one parent who works a traditional, full-time job, and another parent who works part-time as a consultant or in some type of private practice (counseling, speech therapy, etc.). It’s so hard to raise kids when both parents have inflexible, full-time jobs. Add in complications like elder care (I know several of the other parents are taking care of their parents with cancer, etc), and it’s damn near impossible.

      2. I think having enough money (whatever the source) to cushion most any kind of blow really makes the calculation of working different, especially if one is trained for and enjoys the kind of work that requires a lot of hours each week.

         At least in law, it can be really difficult for lawyers with certain (but not all!) big job backgrounds to find interesting, suitable work that is super family-friendly. The choice ends up being work a big job you love OR have lots of time to spend with your kids and taking care of yourself OR work a job you don’t like much and have some extra time with kids, but still not enough. If money isn’t a factor, not working looks pretty appealing.

         1. +1 to this — i’m always fascinated by my pharmD friend who has a job share, or my neuropsych friend who was a SAHM for about 7 years and then went back, part-time, working for one of those therapy centers that does autism evaluations.

            Maybe making work more family friendly is thinking along lines like that — smaller projects, more discrete work. I think many law firms will offer 80% (which is always a joke) but not 50% or less.

      3. I am also the only mom at the fancy private school who works! And yes, I do wonder what these college and graduate school educated moms who don’t work must say to their daughters.

   3. Why do you see being in the workplace as the ultimate goal that everyone should aspire to? Working 40+ hours a week isn’t very fun. At a high income level they probably no longer have student loans, so the money spent on education seems like a non-factor.

      1. I don’t think everybody should aspire to be in the workplace, but I most definitely believe with all my heart that everybody should aspire to be able to support herself and any kids she may have. Whether that’s being in the workforce, or having family money, or a separate account during marriage, or what have you.

         1. Yes to this. Also, since most people are dependent upon work as the source on life funding, I think it is important to model income-generating work, in whatever form that occurs, as the norm. Kids I knew who grew up with the idea that work is optional when that turned out to be untrue? They seem to be pretty miserable and resentful of their perfectly normal lives.

            1. I think it’s important to return to historical norms of work/life balance. Normal lives just aren’t pleasant for people who aren’t pretty high energy!

            2. Historical norms? Historically average people worked 6 days per week 12+ hours per day. They ran farms, worked in factories, worked for others. There were no labor laws. People work less now than they have throughout most of history.

            3. That’s what they tell you to get you to work such long hours! Just look at how many religious holidays and festivals prohibited working and came around every year.

               Most people in history never worked in factories at all, and sometimes when they did it was a temporary wartime effort… because otherwise that level of efficiency wasn’t really worth it.

   4. I still work full-time (and don’t see a situation where I won’t anytime soon bc I like my job and what it affords my household), but I know women who don’t that are moms at my kids school. Most of the time it’s because it’s hard to maintain two high achieving jobs, or even one high achieving and one middling job, and thus it becomes easier to have someone (usually the mom) stay home with the kids rather than pay childcare and cobble together help. It’s not “educating a women for nothing” as you seem to imply. You seem really judgy.

      1. Judgy, and young.

         1. really? i got the other vibe (older).

            1. I thought young too. And no kids yet either is my guess

         2. OP, I hear you as being genuinely curious, not judgy. You’re seeing something different from the world you’re accustomed to and you’re asking people to help you understand and think about. I wish we all did that when we noticed new things.

   5. Where are you in the seasons of your life? I ask because my position on this has changed over the years. My kids are young elementary school right now, and both of us have big jobs. Quite frankly, it’s wearing us down and I am softening to realize that maybe life would be better for all of us if one parent had more bandwidth.

      I didn’t have that perspective, nor did anyone give it to me when I was younger. And quite frankly, I don’t think I thought this way until the last few years; prior to, I was hardcore I’m a lawyer; I love law; I’m going to do it forever; there is nothing else out there but the 60 hour week. But my husband is on the verge of a sale of a company that would mean we wouldn’t need my salary. When you take “needing” (or “really wanting” because you like nice things) a salary out of the equation…you start thinking about what else is out there for you.

      1. Yup. We were raised to think we could, and should, do everything. The problem is, that grinds you down after a while, even when you have many advantages.

         1. GenX-er here who saw too many women of my mom’s generation left high and dry when they divorced after not having worked for 20 years. I will never willingly give up my financial independence, even if holding a job sucks.

            1. Oh, I agree. I just don’t know what to do about the ever-present exhaustion from trying to do both.

            2. This, times a million. My aunt got divorced and had never had credit in her own name so couldn’t borrow to buy a basic car.

            3. So I am the above commenter, and the same happened to my mom. And I said the same thing when I was younger. It’s just so black and white, and life is gray. I would never want to be my mom or go through what she went through. But sometimes something has to give, and I have to think that there’s some middle ground between the two poles you’ve presented.

            4. I think the middle ground is to have an ironclad postnup in place before you give up your career, including regular payments that go into retirement (and other) accounts in your name only. (It should include payments in real time because a divorce decree is only valuable to the extent you can collect on it.)

   6. People change their minds.

      Their careers never took off and/or they realized they didn’t care as much about having a career.

      Raising kids was always the goal.

      Also, raising kids while working full time is effing hard. I’m 15 years into it, and it’s still hard. There are many days when I question whether it’s worth it. (It is, for me, as I’m not independently wealthy and I also don’t think I’d be a good SAHM.)

      Also, many (not all) of these women have safety nets that may or may not be visible.

   7. I am an attorney, but I work very part-time. First, I am deeply lucky to be very well educated. I still make a lot more with my part-time schedule than I would if I were in a lower paid profession. I did make choices that made this easier for me (picked a state U and got a scholarship over the higher ranked, but more expensive private law schools), and I hustled hard for 10 years before slowing way down. With two big jobs, we were able to put away enough money that we feel secure, and my job keeps my foot in the work force. There’s also a lot of “high value” volunteering at this stage of career and life that lets me still be very present in my kids’ lives but that could pivot to a job if I needed it. I’m grateful to be here, and the way I look at it – either my life is long, and I can ramp back up after this 15 year period of slowing down, or my life is short, and I won’t regret having slowed down during this phase.

      1. “either my life is long, and I can ramp back up after this 15 year period of slowing down, or my life is short, and I won’t regret having slowed down during this phase.”

         100% this. I don’t have kids, but still take this approach to some extent with work-life balance (I take big vacations now. I’m not waiting until I’m retired). In the past month, in my network i’ve seen a 42-year old who dropped dead of a cardiac issue with no prior history and a healthy 39-year old woman with no risk factors diagnosed with lung cancer (she’s fine, luckily). Do the things you want to do and find important now, whatever that may be.

         1. lesson: over responsible, worked, worked, worked, never took vacations, did everything for kids, sick dying parents, community, church, by my choice, now 70 yr, stage 4 cancer, just diagnosed with another cancer, given 6% chance of living 5 yrs which I pray for a miracle that this is not accurate. make memories with the people you love bec your resume will not mean nearly as much in your end of life phase

      2. Man, I’m envious. This is my ideal scenario. Unfortunately, I have long been in a profession that is high-responsibility but not necessarily highly paid. Same with DH until recently. We’re doing well for myself, but it’s taken a LONG time to get here, and most of those years have overlapped with raising kids. And now college is only a few short years away and it feels necessary to keep pushing. I’m just … really effing tired.

   8. I don’t understand people who go through law school and then decide to be a SAHM…and it’s a larger percentage of my law school class than I would have ever suspected when we graduated 12 years ago. Law school is a trade school – a very technical, expensive, and tedious trade school. Why go to trade school to only work for a year or two and then sit out of the workforce for the rest of your life as a soccer mom? If it weren’t so many of my former classmates, I wouldn’t be quite so cynical, but it’s a large enough number that it’s a definite thing. Maybe it’s not socially acceptable to declare, “I want to be a SAHM,” so all these women went to school while waiting for Mr. Right, idk.

      But yes, yes, the feminism movement was about giving everyone the CHOICE. And these women have the choice to be a SAHM, not a mandate, so that’s a victory.

      1. I don’t know either but it’s like you want your daughter to go to the best schools to have the best education and best connections (AND to meet a husband who will be similarly equipped). It’s just steep for a matchmaking service if you are “retired” before your 5-year reunion.

      2. I think it’s super weird too. Why go to school, then? Who is going to pay off all those loans? Or who’s going to explain to the parents or the financial aid office or whomever footed the bill for that education that when you’re just wasting all of the resources that were invested in you? I know circumstances change, but it makes me sad/mad that maybe only half of the women from my 2008 class are still practicing law, and a bunch aren’t working at all.

         1. Hi! Class of 2007 here. My parents paid for law school without much sacrifice. Big law was never in the cards for me so I guess financially it didn’t make sense. But I did meet and marry a high earning spouse, and I’m still practicing with two kids. I have a job I like well enough most days and my income is significant if not impressive. I promise they’re not mad and would be absolutely happy for me if I wanted to be a sahm. My dad, who is not a lawyer, doesn’t see law school as a trade school so much as place that taught me to think and see the world. I’m sometimes inclined to agree with that, sometimes not. He’s deeply proud of me. I’m honestly not sure he’d feel the same about another graduate degree. I remember reading in Gerry Spence’s autobiography about how he thought about studying engineering but then considered that the president of the United States is rarely an engineer. Politics aside, I think there’s still something to law school especially for parents like mine that were well off but not well educated.

      3. I doubt that many women go to law school with the goal of getting married and become a SAHM. For many, having kids causes a major shift in priorities. Being a working lawyer mom is hard, straight up, and it’s not surprising that many start to rethink how they want to spend their time and support their families if given the economic ability to do so outside of an employee/employer relationship. I think it’s naive and unfair to imply that all these women in your law school were secretly unserious people who were just looking for a path to SAHM.

      4. I’m forever single but I can answer this question as a fancy professional school graduate.

         You go to the school to meet your high-potential husband.

         I was way too stressed out to date when I was a student. I wish I had tried to have more of a social life, because my class included some wonderful men.

         1. So-sign that first sentence, at least for the first marriage. For the second, marry who makes you happy, regardless of his resume.

   9. I mean, where do you think they meet the men with income levels that they *can* drop out of the workforce? My brilliant, Ivy-league MBA friend dropped out of the workforce to raise her kids. She has 4. I can’t imagine trying to raise 4 kids and work (hell, I don’t have kids because I can barely imagine having to raise 1 kid and work). She may do something part-time once they’re all old enough that everyone is in school part of the day, but I definitely get having someone stay home if you have kids and don’t need 2 salaries.

   10. I’ve always been very career-oriented and I married a career-oriented man. We don’t have kids, and at this point, we can afford not to work anymore (we’re not generational wealth rich, but we can live comfortably on our net worth). We’re still working, but the motivation to work a corporate job is waning.

       In my case, I feel like I’m losing stamina to keep sprinting at this pace, in large part because I just don’t see the rewards matching the effort. There’s other areas of my life where I can put in tons of hard work and see faster benefits. Why keep hustling on what I’m starting to think is a treadmill vs. applying that work ethic to something else?

       I have some hobbies and side hustles that could probably turn into a decent income if I focused on them and actually treated them like a business. But I can’t do that while I’m working full time. And it will be difficult to replace my full-time salary with these endeavors, so it’s a tough choice to quit my well-paying, but also, why the heck am I still working this job when I don’t actually need all of this salary and I’m no longer fulfilled doing it?

       So if I had millions of dollars coming in from a high-earning spouse, generational wealth, etc.? Yeah, I’d probably go ahead and chase those other avenues for filling my time and purpose.

       1. I could’ve written every word of this. I’m on the treadmill, and the rewards are no longer matching the work. And it sucks.

       2. I spent 11 years in Biglaw. I completely burned out – that lifestyle was not worth it for many reasons, at least in the group where I was (and I regret staying as long as I did, although it did allow me to save a big nest egg). I used to wonder about stay at home moms too, especially my former classmates who also had an expensive educations, but my opinion now is, good for them. If you’re able to afford it, why not take the time to spend with your kids and enjoy your life? Not everyone is lucky enough to be able to do so.

   11. They bought themselves options and a safety net (ability to get back into the workforce if something happens to their husbands).

       Consider that the women around you worked because if they didn’t, they could not make ends meet.

       1. Do people think that working moms must be married to losers? Because SAHM now seems to equate with just marrying well.

          1. My MIL sure seems to think her son is a loser because I have a job. That’s fine, she’s a terrible person.

   12. ok i’ll bite, this is sort of me. my dad’s parents were Holocaust survivors, and he is a doctor, so I had an upper middle class upbringing and was very much raised with the idea I should be able to support myself and have a high paying job, be supermom and all the things. I was in private school from age 2 and have an undergraduate and law degree from ivy league institutions. i now work part-time, not in law, earning a low salary. I practiced law for less than 2 years. I love working, but I am also very grateful we have the setup we have because DH earns like 10x+ my salary, travels a lot for work and has a big job and we have two kids in lower elementary and i feel like i’m barely hanging on by a thread. I am very conflicted about some of the choices I made. On the one hand, sometimes I feel like all of this money/time was wasted on my brain and I feel badly about the amount of money I earn and wish I’d prioritized my own career more earlier on in our relationship. If we got divorced, given the state we live in now, I’d be slightly screwed, (though I recently learned one day I will inherit a decent amount depending on how long my dad lives, but I was most certainly NOT raised thinking this way, instead I was raised to drive to two supermarkets to purchase the less expensive yogurt) DH and I met in college and we’ve ended up moving around a bunch for his job (I did not make any ‘sacrifices’ until we were married). On the other hand, I am working a job I like, with a schedule that works for my family, have two kids, a nice house, a nanny, etc. Our day-to-day life is good, though I never would’ve chosen the location where we live. My relationship with DH could use some improvements as life with one person in a high-travel job and two kids with no local family is exhausting. If I had a more high powered, higher earning career, I’d probably worry less about money, though truthfully any worry I have is more anxiety talking/guilt than anything I really should be worrying about.

       1. replying to myself – I don’t think I’d be happier in a super high-paying job (I might have less anxiety/guilt, but I’m sure I’d find something else to stress about), but I do wonder if I’d be happier if both DH and I were in more like 9-5 jobs, rather than one “big” job and one “small” job. I feel like my friends with the best marriages have it more like that. I am not particularly close with my law school classmates, but am still very close with my college friends and I only know of one who is a SAHM. Many of us came from middle class/upper middle class backgrounds and I dont think any of us had SAHM. Before I had kids, I though it sounded fun to be a SAHM, but now I think it sounds miserable with little kids, but much more appealing once they are in elementary school

          1. I totally feel the same way about two 9-5s being the best set-up. Unfortunately my DH doesn’t want a 9-5 job.

          2. Late to this chat, but I have a 50-50 split with DH (he does a ton; kids homework supervision, buys groceries, wash up after dinner, laundry, driving kids to playdates, taxes). We are both so involved with our kids and spend a lot of time with them and really enjoy it. We also spend time with our kids’ friend groups in our volunteer roles (coaching, etc). I do think I lucked out. I work but not too much (9-5 in a corporate job, waxes and wanes but sometimes less) and I enjoy my work as well as my hobbies and gym time.
             I wouldn’t be happy working more but I think DH would, he manages to squeeze in more nighttime hours of work after his 9-5.

   13. Something else to consider that I’ve heard from several new moms in my orbit is that despite being highly educated and having a plan, their pregnancy announcements are taken by employers as a tacit resignation. They are pushed out, and their commitment is questioned constantly. If the world treats you completely differently once you give birth, I can see how that changes your outlook.

       1. Add to this the years-long identity crisis that a lot of new mothers go through and it’s another factor. Your head isn’t/can’t be in the game at work as much as it was beforehand, at least for a few years. For some people who’ve always been A+ students, to know that they’re suddenly turning in C+ work feels like they’re cheating the employer somehow. (When in reality either that feeling is in their head — let’s all be as good as a mediocre white man — or employers weren’t entitled to your A+ work to begin with.)

   14. I would have thought my top goal in life was to be a SAHM – I went to a top 50 college and law school because I wasn’t sure that would happen, I excelled academically, and I was interested in what I was learning. I didn’t go to school for an MRS but I think it makes sense that I wouldn’t have wanted to be with someone who didn’t value education/good grades as much as I did.

       Of course, met my husband years later, and I’ve been the breadwinner for most of the 15 years we’ve been married. (Thank GOD he never expected me to be a SAHM, I think I’d have been horrible at it and bored as heck.)

       The highly educated friends I have who became SAHMs were all at a fork in the road when they made the decision — one went from Big Law to a non profit, didn’t like the jump and then got pregnant. So it made sense to quit instead.

   15. Imagine you reach a point in your life where you don’t need to work for money (or perhaps you never did). Would a career still be your priority? I think education is always valuable whether you apply it to paid work or not. But imagine you truly have the freedom to pursue things besides a salary — what would you do?

       1. Pursue a salary still. Money fixes a lot of problems and assisted living is shockingly expensive. The math of ages 75+ is daunting if you can’t quite live alone but are in no way dying or sick.

   16. I’ll bite. I spent 10 years working at a prestigious law firm and we paid off our loans and invested all of my bonuses. Spouse is a doctor.

       When we finally had a child (took much longer than expected), he was a new attending and I downshifted my job to a part time in house role. I get why some women would opt out entirely.

       From my perspective, my career peaked when I got to do interesting work at a great law firm for 10 years. It took me so long to have my child that I really value the flexibility of my current role that allows me to spend a ton of time actively parenting and spending time with friends and family.

       I don’t think I wasted my degrees or the money spent. They afforded me a challenging and prestigious job for many years. I used the compensation from that job to take advantage of compounding returns and accumulate significant net worth that set our family up for financial success.

       What would say to any of my children is that if you work hard and take advantage of the opportunities that come with your education, you have more choices. You may find you can achieve work life balance and make fewer financial tradeoffs.

       1. This is where I am right now– 10 years into biglaw (litigation), husband is a doctor, just became an attending. About to have our second kid and very much considering and starting to explore in house positions. I actually love my job, I just don’t love how much I work, and I think our family just needs one of us to be in an ‘easier’ job.

   17. My really well-educated sister became a SAHM because her income didn’t cover the cost of daycare for her kids. It was a difficult and sad choice for her.

       I can see that your post is genuinely curious. But your post is also genuinely judgmental and has oversimplified things by a long measure. The “What these women say to their daughters” line is particularly tone deaf.

   18. Well for one not all women want to make babies, having a daughter is not someone’s purpose in life. Most people don’t work because we want to we are coerced into employment by capitalism and economic systems. Working is not a virtue.

   19. Honestly, my aunt (married to a physician) told my cousin to study hard because my cousin might not get married and old maids need to support themselves. =My aunt and uncle were quite supportive of my cousin attending vet school, probably because my cousin could (and actually) does work part-time while being married to an evangelical farming guy. If I’d had the kind of grades and scores to go to vet school, my parents would have been pushing hardcore for medical school or something equally remunerative.

   20. In my city, a lot of those women stepped back from highly paid jobs to be home with their kids due to a combination of family money and marrying well. Let me tell you, those women were permanently pissed off at the moms who didn’t quit working (me being one of the moms who didn’t.) They ran the PTA like the CEOs they really should have been, and honestly, really ran the whole elementary school my kids went to. It was pretty effed up. Very, very glad to be out of those ages.

       1. The PTO at preschool wasn’t stress-free, but the PTAs at our public school are half-SAHMs and half-working moms, which is a nightmare. The SAHMs are likewise pissed off at the working moms, especially yours truly. Sorry not sorry I wasn’t available when you texted me mid-day with some random task that had to be completed RIGHT AWAY.

          (The tiny handful of dads (working or not) who do PTA stuff get praised and awarded like they just figured out cold fusion.)

          1. My husband took on the PTA duties as he had a regular 9-5 job at the time our kids were in elementary school, so he could reliably make the 5PM meetings. PTA president said to me more than once “We never see you at the PTA meetings. Can’t you prioritize your children?” When I replied that my husband had opted for PTA stuff in our division of household responsibilities and was there for every meeting it didn’t stop her for one second. The fact that he was there didn’t get me off the hook at all in her eyes.

   21. Have you “followed” these women on LinkedIn or otherwise to see how “dropped out” they really are – maybe they stopped working full-time with young children or because of a special-needs child or other caregiving responsibility / choice / obligation, and maybe they go back to working world later, or differently – part time, or career-switching, or they run the volunteer organizations that keep our public schools and congregations and nonprofits going. Maybe they changed their names because their marital status changed and you can’t find them anymore. I’m just saying – all may not be as it appears at first glance, and things may change in 5 or 10 years.

   22. I’ll bite, since I’m from one of those families, likely to soon be one of those women, and my sister already is. I was raised to go to school because education is valuable no matter what life brings – being able to think clearly helps in all of life, makes it possible for you to have a career during years when you want a career, and makes you a better parent. I’m now early 40’s, exhausted from the juggle of a big job and the demands of little kids (had them late). Due to the fact I always lived frugally and saved money (compound interest is an amazing thing), I’m now financially independent, and I’m very close to leaving my job and becoming a SAHM for a while. I love being with my kids, and saw my (PhD holding) mom really thrive as a SAHM (lots of volunteer work, amazing garden, taught us all advanced math, etc), and assume that I’ll be similar. Maybe I’ll find some part-time work in a few years, or go back to work…I’m not sure, right now I’m mostly excited to get more sleep, but life is long. Note that I’m financially independent now due to MY savings; my husband’s salary is fine, but it’s not that I’m depending on his income, and I think that’s a crucial difference; somehow in all the discussions above I think no one has mentioned that the woman may have saved up money herself to support her becoming a SAHM! I hope we as a society can get to a place where it’s a lot easier for people (men and women!) to go in and out of the workforce, and find part-time work. I would totally keep working if I could find a way to do so at less then a 100mph way.

4. Help me break a bad habit. When I indulge in a sweet treat, within minutes, I will get a strong craving for salty. Then I indulge the salty craving and then I’ve overdone it, and I regret how full I am. Is there any scientific reason why I’m getting these opposite cravings?

   1. I have no idea what the scientific reasoning of it is. Sometimes brushing my teeth helps to break the salty craving. Otherwise, sometimes just one or two of the salty item does the trick.

   2. oh I absolutely swing between salty and sweet if I let myself also. i’ve sometimes noticed that what I really wanted was the second flavor but chose the first because it was healthier or available or whatever… so i’ve tried to stop that and really focus on what i want.

   3. I don’t know. But I know that I can often interrupt craving for myself by drinking water instead. Sometimes I realize I was actually thirsty and wasn’t doing well at interpreting what I needed/wanted.

   4. me too! and while this isn’t salt/sweet combo, when i eat sweets i like to drink orange juice (the acidity balances it out)

   5. This is why I like Reeses and Snickers – they check both the sweet and salty boxes.

      Also, eff this “posting too fast” nonsense.

   6. Popcorn is best for me for the salty. It is relatively innocuous and it doesn’t seem to cycle me back to sweet the way nuts or a bag of chips would.

   7. I’m way worse. I want salt and vinegar chips, then candy like skittles and then a peanut butter cup. My diet is terrible some days and my work stress doesn’t help the constant snacking.

5. I have two fifth graders.  Per their repeated requests, we are going to let them have several weeks hanging out at home next summer (instead of going to camp).

   I’m happy to let them spend much of the time goofing off, but I’d like them to do some consistent practice on a few life/academic skills we haven’t been able to easily fit in during the school year.  On my list are typing, handwriting practice, getting multiplication facts absolutely rock-solid, and brush-up swimming lessons for one of them.  I’d love ideas for anything else I should put on the list — what should kids really know in advance of middle school? They’re already solid on some stuff like riding bikes, cooking, cleaning, and laundry. They also read plenty, so we don’t need to add reading time.

   (Also I realize this question is six months early, but I’m bored today!)

   1. The joy of these weeks is unscheduled time to get bored and have to make your own fun, not to replace a camp schedule with Camp Parents’ schedule.

      1. which I see you said in part, but having “homework” to do each day does kind of defeat that summer joy that only lasts until middle school. High school I had assigned English and history books to read, science and math packets, etc.

         1. They’re going to have 8-9 hours a day for weeks to get bored and make their own fun. I don’t think an hour of structure will kill the joy! Actually I think they’ll like having some little projects to do. I am going for light stuff though, not trying to have them work thorugh advanced math or something.

      2. +1
         Let them enjoy the free time. Maybe give them some house chores to do, but not this pseudo-homework!

      3. Agree. That all seems stupid to me. Like wannabe tiger mom but not really.

         When my kids were old enough they didn’t have to go to camp anymore, they had household responsibilities, but not homework.

   2. I like using the summer months to teach and reinforce life skills. I know you said cooking/cleaning/laundry are covered, but uh, your kids must be better at them than mine are, lol. You might like Emily Ley’s “how to be a person camp” checklist.

   3. One summer my mom printed out math worksheets and my sister and I got a quarter each for doing them.

   4. This varies a lot by community, but in my walkable and transit-oriented city, this would be a great time to let them practice making a plan with a responsible friend and walking or taking the train somewhere without an adult. I’d probably stick with somewhere pretty close at first, like the park, library, an ice cream shop, or museum.

      1. We also live in an area like that – they’re good about walking places but it’s probably time for trains or busses! Thanks for the idea.

   5. Your experience may vary but I tried keeping my 10-year-old home last summer rather than enrolling him in summer programs and it SUCKED. He was bored and cranky, he couldn’t help but interrupt whatever parent was working from home that day, the fights about screen time (when, how much, why not, which shows) were epic and never ending … once he found a few friends in the neighborhood it helped a little but overall it was a real bummer of summer without the kind of social interaction he’d have gotten at even a not-great summer program with other kids around. I did have a ‘to do’ list for him each day – some workbooks, typing practice, etc. – but he’d finish the list early and complain about being bored all day. Might not be as bad since you have two but won’t they get sick of just each other?

      1. Fair point! We live in an area where I’m pretty confident we can find last-mintue programs if it’s a disaster. They’re pretty good about entertaining each other but admittedly they’ve never had this much time to do it.

   6. Is there ever enough reading time?

      1. +1 Fifth grade is the sweet spot in that they can actually read books with plots. I would binge Harry Potter, Tamora Pierce, and Madeleine L’Engle books at that age over school breaks.

   7. You can get different grade-level workbooks or activity books from the bookstore and also look for educational games. Some workbooks are more activity focused … maybe look at Highlights for Children. That said, reading was my favorite thing to do at that age — maybe a weekly trip to the library in person for some fresh titles (and a fun outing) if not additional reading time.

   8. Other than swimming, your suggestions sound a lot like homework. Why not choose something less like summer school and more creative? Something like having them plan and tend a small garden, build a birdhouse, learn how to sew, build a radio, etc.?

      Kat, how slowly does someone need to type to stop getting this warning that we are posting too quickly? Have you tried testing all your recent changes in a QA environment rather than on your live comments section? If not, I strongly recommend you do that, because whatever is going on now is not working.

      1. Are you using the email anon at gmail dot com? I found when I used that email address, I got that message all the time – presumably because so many other people were also using it, so I guessed that the board might think we are the same poster. I changed the email slightly and have not gotten that message since. That is my very unscientific advice. ;)

         1. Nope, my actual real email. Or nothing at all, b/c it won’t save regardless of how many times I check the box.

   9. Don’t wait for summer on the multiplication facts. Times tables up to 12 (or preferably 15) should have been rock solid well before they got to fifth grade. Drill those all the time between now and summer. There is no way they should be 11 years old and still struggling with basics like that.

      Also I’d give them a week in the summer for loafing around. Multiple weeks are going to get you bored, cranky kids with too much screen time. If they don’t like the camp they go to now, let them find another one they’d be more interested in.

   10. Who is watching them? The calculus is a lot different if it’s you or a nanny or some babysitter.

   11. Financial Literacy – there are a lot of fun ways to explore it – especially since there is less cash being exchanged, and money can feel like “magic”/unreal to a kid. Our kids had a card game “Exact Change” that was like Uno but also underscored mental math (not multiplying, but still fun review).

       There is was a fun website “Bedtime Math” that made math interesting at several levels – we would do them in the car.

       A First Aid class?

       The sign language alphabet/sign language basics?

       Explore a culture each 2-3 weeks and take the kids out to that local festival or dinner to try the food.

6. I’m sure I’m not the only person working on Chambers submissions this week. (Non-lawyers: it’s an awards self-nomination form.)

   What the everliving eff to my bosses asking me to write two submissions for two projects I wasn’t involved in? I still float in the clients’ orbits – monthly calls, that sort of thing – but I haven’t billed anything to these clients in 2 years other than passive group calls. So I took a stab at writing up what I think my bosses did in the past year while I wasn’t involved. Bosses turned them back and said, “Build this out more. Include X and Y.” DUDE. I know nothing about X or Y. I WASN’T THERE!! And now they’re mad at me because today is the deadline and they’re not done the way they wanted them. Again, you’ve asked me to write a narrative about something I didn’t participate in. I can’t write about what I don’t know. That is, I believe, the first rule of writing. It’s like I’m in backwards land. /endrant

   1. Not that this will get your bosses off your back, but referee feedback to Chambers counts much more than the written submission for ranking purposes.

      Here’s what legal marketers do in similar circumstances: 1) look up the matter in the firm’s time-entry system and skim entries from lawyers who billed the most in the past 12 months; 2) google the case/deal and skim any headlines and first paragraphs; 3) draft 2-3 sentences focusing on why the matter is significant and run it by the associate who has billed the most hours.

      The researchers reviewing the submissions are often recent grads without legal backgrounds, which means clear, jargon-free descriptions are much more effective than what most experienced lawyers think is impressive. Good luck!

      1. I’d use chat gpt

7. Am I looking for a unicorn? Trying to find a warm puffer jacket that isn’t too long, has a hood and deep, usable pockets… but also has a bit of shape and looks kind of cool. I’m in love with the Soia & Kyo ones I got but I’m worried they wont’ be that warm, and the pockets stink. The Bernardo ones are fine, I guess, but… am I missing any other options? Have a Lands’ End one now with a hole in the pocket. (I need the hood for my curly hair, which gets frizzy if it’s in snow or rain for too long.)

   1. I absolutely love the Patagonia Prairie jacket I got last year. It’s not a traditional puffer, but it’s warm, has a nice, deep hood, and great pockets. They didn’t make it this year, but have some on their resale site. I’ve been meaning to try the Fjallraven Kiruna jacket, since it looks very similar and I’d like to have another

   2. Look at gravitypope, a Canadian store. I’ve seen a few brands there that fit your spec, especially Lempelius (which I now think I need).

   3. My Soia and Kyo coat is the warmest puffer I own. Highly recommend, I live in NYC and walk outside a lot.

   4. I’m not sure what length you are looking for, but I have two lengths of the Aritzia superpuff coat and have been quite pleased with the functionality and style. The hood is big and the pockets are so deep. Mine are in the cliMATTE fabric, but they have several options.

8. If you lived in the PNW and wanted to travel somewhere warm and sunny between Christmas and New Year’s, where would you go? We don’t really want a long flight, so thinking Palm Springs, however Hawaii is tempting. Also open to Arizona, although it won’t be as warm, but at least should be sunny.

   1. like, this year? wherever still has a vacancy. Puerto Vallarta? Cabo is kind of cold this time of year.

   2. Hawaii if possible. No guarantees on weather anywhere, though.

9. I have all of a sudden got red, swollen gum above my lateral incisor tooth. I don’t remember any potential trauma and I always have excellent dental hygiene. I’m trying to figure out how long to wait before calling dentist.

   1. I’m afraid you have to use your best judgment to make your own personal medical decision. If you’re gonna use the internet, a random person on a message board is not going to be the most reliable source.

      1. Yes, I understand that. I also appreciate the posters that are kind and share knowledge of their experiences and not lecture.

   2. You might have a small scratch or something. Swish with some antibacterial Listerine-type stuff for a day or two. If it doesn’t get better in 48 hours or if it gets worse at all, call your dentist.

   3. Have you eaten popcorn or another crunchy, scratchy food recently? I get this when kernels get stuck in my gums or if a sharp chip scraped in just the wrong way while chewing. Getting the stuck kernel out and rinsing with salt water a few times a day helps it heal faster. I am not a doctor or dentist and I’ve never had to go to the dentist for this myself but I would use these criteria to decide whether to call: if it was getting worse with time and not better, was very painful (not accidentally scraping it hurts, but if just existing was bad), developed puss, if I started to get a fever, the nearby teeth seemed to be effected, or if the swelling lasted more than a week without noticeable improvement.

      1. +1, and it’s not always obvious that it happened like “ouch I stabbed my gum” if it hits just right

   4. It’s almost certainly not this, but I had a friend diagnosed by leukemia, and her first symptom was bleeding gyms. Her dentist sent her to her GP, who diagnosed her and sent her to the ER to be admitted. That is probably about #3216 on Things That Can Cause Gum Problems, but if it doesn’t clear up, don’t mess around.

   5. I’d go sooner rather than later. I had something similar and kept ignoring it. It was only around one bottom front tooth. Turns out I needed a gum graft on that spot because my gums were pulling away at that spot. Dentist attributed it to genetics and overly aggressive brushing (I brush too hard).

   6. I’m not a dentist. If you have great oral hygiene in general, and it goes away in 1-2 days then it was probably a small localized infection that cleared. If it does not go away after 2-3 days or gets progressively worse, I would be worried about an abscess or deeper infection.

   7. Once I still had pain about a week after getting a tiny cavity filled. I called the dentist to find out if I should be worried. Apparently it’s normal – for women in my age range, ugh! So I asked when SHOULD I be worried and call next time – I think we agreed on another 10 days. So, that is my story that probably if you have a nice dentist, it is ok to call them and ask them if you should be worried and if so, when. Good luck, let us know. Smile!

Comments are closed.