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Updated: Oct 30, 2018 131 Comments · by

Coffee Break: Audrey Flats

Coffee Break

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audrey flats in embellished tweedThese embelllished flats are all kinds of cute — and they're only $118 over at J.Crew (marked down today from their full price of $158). In my mind, they're the perfect kind of thing to wear with a really neutral outfit, such as an all navy or all black monochromatic look — perhaps with a bold red lip. There's a very similar pair of kitten-heeled mules if you want a teensy bit of height. Pictured: Audrey flats in embellished tweed This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!

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Comments

  1. Gift help

    What are four year olds into these days? Need to get a present for a bday, looking to spend in the $25-30 dollar range. Availability on amazon a plus.

      • Ms B

        +1 to Stomp Rockets; I recommend the Stomp Rocket Jr.”glow” ones because the fly better and further and then get one or two extra packs of the rockets (they inevitably blow onto the roof or get eaten by trees).

        • Sloan Sabbith

          Stomp Rockets are cool, but only if you live near a place you can fly them well. I lived in a yard with mostly evergreen trees growing up and even the local elementary school field wasn’t ideal because the rockets don’t quite fly the way you expect them to and then whoops, they’re on the roof of the school.

    • Wow

      Puzzles! Especially Thomas puzzles, around 40 pieces (60 is too much). You can also get a Melissa and Doug floor puzzle, those are great too. That’s more in the $15 range but you can buy two.

    • anon

      Play doh sets (with the stamps & toys). Starter board games like Candyland and Chutes & Ladders. Paw Patrol stuff.

    • Anon

      Love the Peaceable kingdom cooperative games. And capes that kid can color themselves (gendered boy or girl themes available).

      • NYNY

        Play silks are awesome! Around $15 each, available on Prime. I’ve gifted to girls and boys, and they all loved them.

    • nutella

      My 4 and 5 year old nieces are obsessed with legos and this toy called “LOL Surprise”

    • anon

      Mine like the Schleich brand animals they sell on amazon. They are a nice sturdy plastic compared to the dollar store animals and typically go for around $10 each at boutique toy stores but you can score really good deals on amazon. Great to keep a few on hand for rewards, etc.

    • Anonymous

      We have gifted the hotwheels stunt box to a few friends and it has been a hit each time.

  2. Wedding costs?

    Survey question: what are people spending on weddings these days? I’m helping my sister plan her wedding. She’s 35 and getting married for the first time. She and her group of friends (plus partners) generally are in the upper-middle class demographic, with HHI of anywhere from $150k–$350k. PNW.

    I know the right answer is “depends on what you can afford,” but our parents are paying for the wedding and can probably afford to pay much more than necessary. As the brides and grooms at weddings I’ve attended have gotten older, weddings have become less extravagant, but also much more tasteful, and I’m not sure how that works out in the budget.

    So, I’m honestly curious, what are people spending on weddings these days?

    • Anonymous

      In a similarly sized city, similar income level, for a Saturday night sit down dinner full open bar, between 150-200 people, most of my friends are saying their budget is 50k and actually spending 80-100.

    • Anonymous

      We are in large East Coast City (not NYC), had 175 people for a black tie, full open bar wedding on a *Friday* night in the winter and spent ~$55,000 including a short honeymoon and rehearsal dinner. If we had done the same wedding on a Saturday night between April and October, it would have cost 30% more.

    • Anon

      My friends and I are a bit younger, and in a MCOL city. My close friend and I both budgeted $30k for open bar, but buffet style food, and dancing on a Saturday night for 175 people

    • Anon

      I’m having 200 or so people in a very large but medium cost of living city, all in for about $40k. Keep in mind that location matters. If you want a middle of Manhattan venue, you will be in the $60k to $80k for a very nice but mid sized wedding (150 or so), but something in an upscale venue but 30 min outside of town will save you a bundle.

    • soanon

      Chicago, Saturday, 70 guests, sit-down dinner, beer+wine bar, and dancing $25k.

      • Anonymous

        NYC-area, Saturday, fall, about 70 guests, sit down dinner, open bar, dancing, about 35k. Our biggest expense was the venue, followed by photography and then music.

      • soanon

        So, one thing to keep in mind while budgeting is that some vendors (DJs, photographers) charge by the hour while others (caterers) charge by the guest.

    • Anon

      We got married 2 years ago in the summer in Napa Valley at a winery. 65 guests, sit down dinner, beer + wine bar and dancing = roughly $60k. Our biggest cost was buying out the winery for the evening, to be honest, and Napa Valley is $$$$. We probably could have spent $10k-$15k less if we got married somewhere else.

    • Anonymous

      My sister got married in Denver for $15k: 75 people, sit-down dinner, and alcohol, but not a full bar (they served wine (several types of both red and white), beer, and 2 signature cocktail options made by her favorite bar and delivered in large batches, which were really stinking good). That price tag also included the rehearsal dinner, which was a catered dinner at her house for about 25 people. The cost savings on the rehearsal dinner was pretty huge I think. She hired a wedding planner to do most of it, which also reduced her costs because the wedding planner had connections to help get better prices.

    • Tetra

      DC, Saturday, 85 guests, buffet dinner and open bar, about $25k (DJ services donated by a friend, and we did our own flowers).

    • Anon

      Chicago, Saturday night in January, sit-down family style dinner and full open bar for 120bdollowed by DJ and dancing, $22k

    • Anonymous

      Downtown Boston, Saturday night in June for 110 people. Plated dinner, band, photographer, lighting and rentals, plus rehearsal dinner. Comes out to about $65K.

    • Not for This

      Chicago, autumn. Appetizers, buffet dinner, open bar of great beer (held at a brewery) and wine, dancing, dessert. Approx 60 people. Under $7k all in.

    • Anon

      Similar HHI range to your sister, got married in my early 30s, spent $15k for 135 people.

      The weddings we’ve been to in our 30s have ranged from $10k to over $100k.

    • Anon for this

      2014 Wedding, DC, 85 guests, Saturday night, DJ (b/c cheaper than a band), full plated dinner with open bar $45k

    • anonymous

      Chicago, big hotel wedding for 250 guests: all in was about $120k. Gulp. My parents paid for the venue (about $70k after tax and gratuity) and we paid for everything else. Live band and open bar and just the cost of that many guests in the city were what made it so splurgey.

      Venue will typically be the biggest cost by far, so the biggest rule in budgeting is how many guests as that is the factor that will vary your ultimate cost the most. Also worth talking to any interested parties up front about budget – if they intend to make a contribution, how much, what strings attached, etc.

    • anon

      NE vacation destination, mid-summer Saturday ~ $200K for 150 people with a band and a lot of extras. Parents wanted a high-end affair and are footing the bill, so we went along.

    • cnk

      A few years ago; PNW wedding for 110, Sunday lunch, “cultural” band for a 1/2 hour set of cultural dancing, jazz trio for prelunch cocktails, wedding venue with separate reception venue for buffet lunch, wine/beer — I think it totaled a bit less than $15,000 with flowers, wardrobe, etc included. In-laws hosted a separate rehearsal dinner at a brewery for about 30 and I do not know how much that cost.

  3. Cat

    Buyer beware — these shoes are the stiffest, most painful flats I’ve ever tried on.

  4. Autie J

    Looking for suggestions of where to get a “floral” arrangement in Cleveland that isn’t traditional flowers. Don’t know specifically what I want, but not the usual Chrysanthemums, Dahlias and Spider Mums.

    Ideas?

    • AIMS

      Cleveland specifically, I don’t know about but Bouqs has some nice arrangements that are a bit more artistic than your typical 1800flowers fare. I’ve also had a good experience finding a local florist in an unknown area through Yelp. You can often see people upload pictures of their bouquets, too.

      • pugsnbourbon

        I check Google/Yelp for local places, too. I describe what I want and give them a budget; it’s helpful to bring up specific flowers.

    • Anon in CLE

      East side or west side of Cleveland? If west side, I’ve had good experiences with Vase To Vase in Lakewood — they’re local and, I believe, comfortable working with more unorthodox arrangements.

      • Autie J

        South–Royalton-Strongsville area. I don’t know Cleveland at all, so have no idea how that area fits in with others.

    • Pompom

      I’ve had Bouqs delivered all over the country to rave reviews. They do fantastic work, and you can almost always find a coupon.

  5. ER

    Not a fan of these shoes. They look cute by themselves but I would never wear them, and especially not to the office.

    I usually ignore LinkedIn requests from recruiters. Am I doing it wrong? I’m not in a hurry to leave my current job, but I apply for jobs from time to time if they look fabulous. I’m in big law, seventh year.

    • Anonymous

      out of curiosity, where do you find these fabulous job postings? I don’t even know where to look!

    • Calibrachoa

      I accept them, not necessarily because I am interested in what they have to offer, but because I often have friends and coworkers looking so I like to be able to pass on details.

    • Anonymous

      Not sure were you find these fabulous jobs, but I pretty much ignore all recruiters. And certainly don’t accept LinkedIn requests from them.

      Every time I talk with a recruiter, all they want it to place me at another BigLaw firm down the street. I don’t see them as an asset at all.

    • Linda from HR

      Since starting my new job, I’ve been telling any recruiter who contacts me that I’m not interested in making a move at this time and that’s been the end of it. That said, I have been known to set up a phone call with an (internal) recruiter here and there while employed. It could lead to an even better job where I’m paid more, get more vacation, and work with better people; at the very least, it helps give me a sense of what other companies hire people in my job function, what they look for, what people with my job title generally do at other companies and how much they make. That way if I do find myself in need of a new job, I have an idea of what to expect as well as who to contact.

    • ER

      I’m on listservs for Alexander Hyde and Goinhouse.com. I also occasionally see stuff on LinkedIn, but not through recruiters.

  6. Forty-something festival fashion???

    So I’m going to my first ourdoor weekend long music festival in years, maybe decades. It’s in early October in the Midwest, highs could be in the 70s, lows in the 50s. I’m 45 and a tall size 12, apple shaped. I want to be comfortable but not look like I mugged a teenager or a soccer mom who got lost. What do I wear?

    • Calibrachoa

      Ooh, I love festivals! :D Is it geared towards any particular style of music? I feel like that might affect the answer a little.

      • Forty-something festival fashion???

        Blues, alt-country, rock and combinations thereof

    • anon

      Skinny jeans or leggings, loose top, waterfall cardigan, ankle boots

      Bring layers! October in the Midwest is soooo unpredictable.

  7. Anonymous

    Does retirement saving seem like a long slow slog to anyone else? I want to be one of these people who can peace out at 50 or 55 — and yet the reality is that won’t happen. And sitting here at 37, I’m like — how am I going to keep doing this?? Is this a sign of my job or big picture planning issues?? FWIW – didn’t think that at my last job (bc it was the kind of job where you didn’t have time to breathe, let alone plan anything); yet the last 2.5 yrs at this job — I feel like I’m constantly checking balances . . . .

    • Anonymous

      well you have like 20-25 years of working left. so that is plenty of time to save a lot of money.

        • Anonymous

          Then get a better job! Sounds to me like you’re bored, not like you need to retire.

    • January

      Do you want advice or commiseration? I agree that 30 years is a long time to keep working… especially if you hate your job….

        • January

          So, I don’t always agree with MMM (below) or other financial independence bloggers, but one thing they almost all say is that in addition to cutting expenses, you need to be bringing in more money during your earning years. That’s one thing you might want to try to fix to speed up the process (whether through a side hustle or getting a higher-paying job).

      • Anonymous

        Will look at that link – thanks. I just feel like if you’re 37 and want to retire by 50 or 55, you should already be sitting on a half million now for it to be a realistic shot — I’m not sitting on that. Plus I’m single so all saving is on me.

        • PolyD

          When I was about 32, I had pretty much no savings. Under $10k, for sure. Now, at 50, I have in the neighborhood of $600K and I’m not a lawyer. Hit $100K salary at about age 40 and I live in a pretty HCOL area, although not NYC, Boston, or San Francisco. So maybe medium-HCOL. Didn’t deprive myself much during those years (although I never had student loans to pay off), I just auto-saved certain amounts and it added up pretty decently. Oh, it’s also all “cash” (well, 401Ks and other funds), not tied up in a house or other property.

          And I’m single.

          I don’t think I can afford to retire now, and I don’t really want to. I think I’d advise you to squirrel away money (never a bad idea) but also think about either finding a new job or finding things outside your job that make you happy and make you able to tolerate your job. And, if you squirrel away enough, maybe you can’t retire at age 50, but maybe you can take a lower-stress job for lower pay.

        • Anonymous

          A LOT of retirement advice on this s!te is from married women who have extra income from spouses.

          I too am single and I’m pretty much going to be working until I die at this rate.

          • Anonymous

            Not even this site but generally the sites out there catering to professional types, you definitely have people saying — I’m 37 with 400k or 500k in retirement. I’m always left thinking — um I’ve been maxing out since I graduated law school – with no match and sure there was than 18 months of unemployment — but still shouldn’t I be somewhat close?? Then I realize it’s 400k or 500k between 2 people and it’s like — oh yeah, just me . . . .

          • Anonymous

            +1. I try to comfort myself thinking that at least I’ve saved money on a wedding and divorce?

          • Anon

            +a million – I can’t even imagine how much more money I could have saved if there were two incomes and split living expenses. But such is life…

          • Anonymous

            Agreed. It is so much harder if you are single. I hear the numbers that people talk about, and there is just no way to get there on your own, with one income. I hope all of the married women with working husbands realize how lucky they are.

    • Anonymous

      For me the solution is to have a job I like now. I am not looking forward to retiring. I like my job. And I didn’t find it until I was almost 40. But don’t spend most of your adult life waiting for the good part to happen if you can figure out a better situation for today.

      And for the record, I work at a nonprofit and am married to a public school teacher. We live in a very HCOL and have 1 child. We live frugally, save a lot, and have a nice but not very posh life.

  8. Rome and Amalfi Coast

    My husband and I are heading to Italy at the end of this week for a much needed vacation and since you ladies always have the best travel advice, wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions for (1) Rome and (2) the Amalfi Coast (we are staying in a small town outside of Positano).

    We have the hotels sorted (finally) and have a tour of the Vatican scheduled, but otherwise would love recommendations for things to do and things to eat. I’m also 5 months pregnant, so some of the things I would otherwise love to do like hike the Path of the Gods or sit on a patio and drink wine for hours may not be in the cards. Any suggestions?

    • AIMS

      I liked the EAT Rome app for finding restaurants. Also make sure you go to the Pizzarium (if I recall it was not too far from Vatican so we did it after that visit). The Rome tourism office was super helpful for info like best days to go see X and getting tickets in advance. If you are into fun stamps and the like, or know someone who is, mail a postcard or several from the Vatican – they have their own mail service and people are into it.
      Eat gelato. Enjoy!

    • TheElms

      For Rome restaurants: Al Moro for a nice dinner and for a casual lunch we like Le Mani in Pasta.

      I really liked the Pantheon because its wild to think of how it could be built so long ago. If you go to the Forum make sure to get a guide or a book because I’m not sure it would make a lot of sense without someone to explain what the buildings were and how they were used.

    • Anon

      Rome restaurants: Sofia or Spirito di Vino for dinner (ask if you can check out the 1,000 year old wine cellar at Spirito – it’s pretty cool). I would make reservations at both, just to be safe (Sofia is tiny!).

      • Anon

        I went to Sofia on a recommendation from someone here (maybe you?) and loved it. One of our best meals in Rome. I also loved Osteria 44 (get the cacio e pepe with fried artichoke!)

        • Anon

          Ah, I think it was me! I totally forgot about Osteria 44 (which was probably also recommended by me – love that place). I’m glad you enjoyed both.

      • Anon

        Not OP, but also going to Rome. I feel really dense asking this, but how do you make a reservation at a place like this? Normally I’d ask the hotel, but I’m not staying at a hotel.

        • Anon

          I’ve also had good luck making reservations via email or via Italy’s version of OpenTable (can’t remember the name).

  9. Anonymous

    Any recommendations for heels with great arch support or for heels with removable insoles where I can add arch support? I have crappy knees (long story), and my physical therapist is asking that I strengthen my arch and get better arch support in shoes. I have been wearing Clarks heels, which are way more comfortable than my other heels these days, but they don’t accommodate insoles. Suggestions?

    • Godzilla

      From a structural perspective, the high heeled shoes are ruining your knees. It is just physically impossible for most (if not all) humans to not wreck the bones, tendons, and other connective tissues in your knees, hips, back, ankles, etc. For your knees specifically, you are forcing your kneecaps lower than its neutral position at all times when you are walking and standing. Ditch the heels, get shoes with no more than 1″ heel, and get custom orthotics.

    • Anonymous

      Weird for me to say “pls be quiet” to a grown woman, no? Yet I don’t even care bc I’m still kind of sick and at work and this is the 2nd time today the noise has given me a headache. Can I just go cough all over her office?! J/k but losing your voice makes you be quiet

      • Anonymous 2

        Please don’t be prejudiced and assume the worst. It’s a visiting office, she probably doesn’t realize the walls are thicker. Be a human and not a jerk and tell her her voice carries, walls are thin, can she please speak quieter. And introduce yourself, maybe more interaction with people like her will make you less racist.

      • Blonde Lawyer

        Go introduce yourself. Figure out why she’s there. If she’s new to the building you can tell her that the walls are really thin and you will try to be quiet to not disturb her and hope that she will do the same for you. Whether she lives in “the hood” or not is irrelevant.

        • Cravecakes

          +1 Talk to her as you would any adult, and you probably shouldnt make assumptions about where people are from or treat them differently because of it, but that’s a whole nother bag of worms you should think about when your non sick (and hopefully nonracist) healthy brain takes over.

  11. PEN

    My mom just called to tell me that my maternal grandfather (73) has lung cancer. She and he live on the other side of the country from me. What can I do to support her from afar?

    • Anon in NYC

      I’m so sorry. I think that a visit would be very much appreciated, if you can afford it. If not, I think food/restaurant gift cards would be good, since I imagine she will spend a lot of time either at the hospital or going back and forth and won’t have the energy to cook. Another idea is to pay for a cleaning service so that she doesn’t have to do it herself. Not sure if your dad is a resource, but maybe he can help you identify a cleaning service or restaurants that she enjoys.

    • Sloan Sabbith

      I’m really sorry- if she’s going to be spending a lot of time at the hospital with your grandfather, send her a care basket- see if the hospital has a Starbucks or somewhere inside, an extra-long phone charger cord/extra charger (If she has an iPhone, I like the iPad charging blocks with the Mac extension cords plugged in with an Amazon Basics iPhone cord- then it can go from normal length to much longer if necessary), maybe an Amazon gift card (especially if there’s Prime Now where she is, but regardless, it’s nice for Kindle books, 2-day delivery, etc), hand sanitizer that’s designed to be less harsh on hands (your grandfather will likely end up immunosuppressed from meds- it will be important to maintain infection control), a notebook and a pack of pens for questions/journaling/etc, quarters for hospital vending machines (ask me how I know that not all of them accept debit card), maybe one of the drapey cardigans Kat features here a lot (the PJ ones that are at Nordstrom that I can’t remember the brand of), a card or travel version of a board game (I like Bananagrams when I’m hospitalized), and some high-protein, mild-smelling (chemo can cause even nonoffensive things to be nausea-inducing) snacks she can split with your grandpa.

      If you don’t think that will help, just be more available- call her more often, let her talk, etc. The “circle theory” is something here to be aware of- depending on how close you and your grandfather are and how close they are, you’ll either be in the same circle as her or one circle out, so try to take care of yourself without putting it on your mom if you’re one circle out from her.

      I’m so sorry you got this news today- thinking good thoughts and sending love.

      • Veronica

        not the OP, but this is such a thoughtful comment! Saving for the future. Thanks, Sloan!

  12. Anonymous

    You’re sick. Just go home. If she’s there tomorrow, you can let her know that the walls are really thin and ask her to keep it down.

    Also, I don’t know what you are “implying” by the reference to the “hood,” but you should seriously reconsider implying anything that you’re ashamed to type out in person.

    • Anon

      This kind of makes me want her to get louder, just to annoy you more and for you to get sicker. She’s either your coworker or a client working their for the day, and someone who you may work with one day. Also, if she’s having such social meetings, that means she’s probably powerful in your office, well-liked or both. If you talk to her with the same condescension that you seem to have here, she’ll notice it and I hope it bites you in the ass.

      • Anonymous

        lol ok. She’s the most super powerful non generator of revenue there ever was — I know every one of those people she isn’t them.

  13. Anonymous

    Agree 100% with Anonymous at 4:13.
    You could say something like, “Hi, I’m [name], I sit in the next office. You may not know, but the walls are very thin and people tend to keep their voices down. Do you mind being a bit quieter?”

  14. Anonymous

    Can you ask her to be quieter? Sure, but the fact that other people know who she is, but you don’t, leads me to believe it’s probably not in your best interest to do so as she’s probably way more powerful than you.

  15. LAnon

    She sounds like a lot more enjoyable person to be around than you do. Maybe you’d have more people stopping by your office if you were less racist.

    Anyone who is in a visiting office and has a constant stream of delighted visitors stopping by to say hi seems like someone who is doing well at work.

  16. Anonymous

    May ask this again tomorrow if it’s too late for responses today – for those that go to conferences ESP if you go by yourself and in a space that isn’t your 100% full time occupation, do you reach out to ppl to connect w in advance? How many -say for a 1 day conference? How “aggressively” do you ready out – like if 2 ppl ignore you, do you try to email a 3rd etc? Any tips on this generally?

    • Anonymous

      I don’t reach out to people in advance unless I already know them and want to make definite plans to get together during the conference. To meet new people, I focus on making genuine connections in person at the conference, usually based on the panels (mine, theirs, or one we both attended). If there is someone in particular I want to meet I will go up after their panel to introduce myself and ask a question.

  17. Duchess

    Hi, I have a travel question for you all. I am going to Geneva for work in a few weeks. Everyone I know who has ever gone to Switzerland has gone to Zurich, so no one in my real life can give me advice on what to see and do. I’ve been doing a ton of googling, but I can’t really be limited to the Palace of Nations, a few museums, and a fountain, right? I fully intend to buy as much cheese and chocolate as I can carry back (I’ve also been looking into how much cheese I can legally import — 15 kilos in case you’re also interested…), but I’d like to do a bit more than just shop. What would you recommend I do? I have two full days off and a few evenings, so dinner recommendations are also welcomed. I’ll be staying at the Intercontinental near the Palace of Nations, so I will definitely visit that and walk around part of the Lake. Is it worth it to go into France to see Mont Saleve? I’m a little concerned I’d need a Schengen visa, which my work says I do not need to enter into Switzerland. For what it’s worth, I am a federal employee and will be traveling with my official passport, but will also have my personal one… Thank you!

    • givemyregards

      Unfortunately, I don’t have that much to offer because when I went (tagging along with my SO on a work trip) it was only for three days and I spent most of it lounging by the river eating cheese and reading a book. I will say that we did a walkabout through the old town and had a full fondue dinner there. I was worried it would be way too touristy and not worth it, but it was actually awesome. I think it was Restaurant des Antiquaires (but I’m not 100% on this). Plus the old church and views from that area are gorgeous. Would highly recommend. I wasn’t in the mood for a lot of activities on that trip, but I had an amazing time just strolling around looking at all the beautiful buildings. Have fun!

      • Duchess

        Thank you! I am certainly happy to simply walk around beautiful cities and eat cheese — I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t going to miss something spectacular!

    • Aunt Jamesina

      Geneva really isn’t that exciting, unfortunately. I used to live not far from Geneva in France, and the Palace of Nations, museums, and the fountain are all I remember. It’s a lot of bankers and NGO folks in expensive suits, it’s just not a very tourist-oriented city. Things quiet down very early in the evenings as well. It’s been a few years and I don’t remember any restaurant recommendations. I’d go to France to see the city of Annecy for a day trip, it’s very charming. I haven’t been to Mont Salève. You don’t need a Schengen visa, Americans (are you American?) can enter the Schengen zone visa-free for 90 days.

      • Duchess

        Thanks. I am an American, but I had to get a Schengen visa when I went to France in 2015, and I assume that’s because I wasn’t traveling as a tourist. That’s why I mentioned having two passports on the trip. I don’t travel internationally enough to be super confident in what I’m doing. I also don’t know if it’s a problem if I enter Switzerland with my official passport but try to go in and out of France on my personal one? Thank you again!

    • Anon

      If you have a US passport you don’t need a Schengen visa. You can travel to/within the EU countries as a tourist without a visa. So you shouldn’t have any problems traveling from Switzerland to France.

    • Anonymous

      I am whiling away my time in an airport lounge on my way back to the US from Geneva. Agree with the suggestion of Annecy. Suggest a trip to the Chamonix valley, ferries on Lac Leman, Vevey.

  18. AIMS

    Any recommendations for a spa within reasonable distance from NYC? A family friend wants to get away for a few days but isn’t sure where to start her search. This is somewhat short notice so nothing that requires super advance notice. Thanks for any suggestions!

  19. anon

    The thread this morning about the poster who is having cold feet after being bored by her SO got me thinking – is passion really just totally irrelevant in a rel’ship? So many of the responses made it seem that way, that it just dries up and goes away. I’ve been thinking about an ex who fit that bill a lot recently – we were well matched in most other ways (he was smart, kind, caring, we had fun together and had the same life goals). We were together 3.5 years (mostly long distance while I was in law school, though we lived together for two summers) and had s$x maybe once during that time and it was awful. I literally had no attraction for him whatsoever or any desire to be physically intimate with him. I would look at him and think that I felt like he was a brother, not an SO. So in the end, even though he wanted to get married, I broke things off b/c i was certainly attracted to other men, and i wasn’t willing to sign up for a totally se&less marriage from day 1. But reading all these posts makes me think i was wrong, and as I approach 40, I really wonder if i did myself a disservice. Ladies in long term relationships/marriages, what do you say?

    • Anon

      This is an interesting question… I have also broken up with guys because the s3x was not great and after this morning I was wondering if I made the right decision. But honestly, I think s3x is more important to some people than it is to others… I guess I’m not willing to compromise passion and excitement and desire for each other for someone who would be a good father (but also maybe that’s why I’m single?). I just haven’t had much luck finding both in the same person!

    • S-non

      I don’t think what you’re describing is the lack of passion people were referencing earlier. I am still very physically attracted to my SO, I just don’t have that want-to-rip-your-clothes off at all times passion with him anymore. If you’re not physically (and in a long-term relationship, I think this turns into also being attracted to that person’s personality aspects) attracted to someone and think of them like a brother, I think you made the right decision in breaking things off.

      • lawsuited

        +1 There is a wide spectrum between ripping our clothes off like it’s the first time every day and viewing each other as siblings and having sex once in 3.5 years. I think the comments this morning recognized that some of the urgency and spontaneity gives way to something more comfortable after many years together.

    • anon

      I married my best friend. I was never passionate about him but I also didn’t want to lose him to someone else as he is a great guy. The physical side was always harder for me than for him. He knows that and I think it hurts him a little, but overall he’s pragmatic about it. I really think it depends on the expectations of the people involved. I know for some couples our lack of passion would never fly, yet they contend with issues I could never put up with.

      • anon

        this sounds crazy, but i remember at the time thinking, how on earth would we have kids if we were unable to even be intimate with each other. But then I think people must do it all the time with people they are not attracted to, just because the person is there? this is the conclusion I’ve come to as I’ve gotten older anyway.

        • Ellen

          This is why I could NEVER marry Sheketovits. He was always slobbering all over me, with his breathe that smelled like a combination of whiskey and vomit. FOOEY! I could NEVER fathom the idea of haveng s-x with that all the time, with him on top of me with that HORRIBEL breathe huffeing and puffeing in my face with that bad breathe. DOUBEL FOOEY! How could I live with that let alone have s-x with that? TRIPEL FOOEY! I could NOT do it so I let him go. And I have NOT looked back ever since! YAY!!!!

    • LAJen

      Honestly, the responses on this morning’s thread shocked me. I cannot imagine wanting to live in a marriage without a bare minimum of chemistry and attraction. Of course, frequency of intimacy and passion ebbs and flows over time in every relationship, but I need there to be a chemistry there with someone that isn’t just friendly in order to want them to EVER touch me. I have a higher drive than most women, I think, but I also just need there to be physical touch outside the bedroom, and in order to even want that with someone, I need to be attracted to them and have intellectual and physical chemistry. I don’t think it’s delusional to want that in a partner and to move on when you’re not finding it despite trying to build it over time. And I find I have that chemistry with people who feel safe and honest and caring, so it’s not that I am attracted to drama or that I conflate passion and conflict in the way I think some posters this morning seemed to intimate.

      • LAJen

        And I will also say that not everyone will want what I want, so my comment is not an indictment of anyone else–just a statement about what I want for myself. And that’s shaped quite a bit by the fact that my parents and one of two sets of grandparents are absolutely crazy about each other and still beam when they look at each other/kiss all the time/go on adventures all the time/etc., still, so I grew up watching that and wanting that kind of connection.

    • Anonymous

      I didn’t hear people in the other thread taking a position that passion was irrelevant. Many were simply saying that passion waxed and waned, and to expect it not to — and not to need tending — wasn’t realistic.

      If you were now “celebrating” the anniversary of 10 years of a passionless marriage, I don’t believe you’d be thinking you’d done yourself a service by entering into it. It sounds like have stepped aside from a great deal of heartache, for both of you.

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