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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
A big sale has started over at ShopBop, where all sale items are now an extra 25% off — nice! There's a good number of sale pieces from DvF, Equipment, Theory, Rebecca Taylor, Tibi, Alice + Olivia, Vince, DKNY, and more. For today's TPS I'm liking this parakeet green dress from Diane von Furstenberg — the length looks great, and I like the keyhole detail to break up a crew neck. It was $398, but was then marked 30% off to $278; with code EXTRA25 at checkout it comes down to $208.95. Diane von Furstenberg Kader Dress
Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.
(L-all)
Update: DvF.com also has the dress in black (lucky sizes only) marked to $199 (with slightly different styling than ShopBop).
Sales of note for 9.16.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 30% off wear-now styles
- J.Crew Factory – (ends 9/16 PM): 40% off everything + extra 70% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Extra 25% off all tops + markdowns
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
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Anonymous
TJ: Best product for treating body acne? I know Neutrogena has an acne body wash but I am curious if there are other treatments available.
LilyB
neutrogena makes a body spray with salicylic acid that works pretty well, and it can be sprayed upside down.
AT
Head and Shoulders original shampoo, used as body wash — and let the suds sit on the skin for a minute or two if you can. It works for a lot of people because the active ingredient in the H&S is some kind of zinc, which is good for skin ailments, including acne.
I had bacne issues a few years ago, and I tried the Neutrogena one, and a bunch of other products, but the H&S was far and away the most effective (and the cheapest!).
Good luck!
Houda
Yes it’s zinc pyrithione (not sure about the spelling), but it does wonders for scaling and itchiness but never tried it for acne.
Anne Shirley
Glytone body spray is pretty good.
Ask your derm
There are prescription soaps.
AEK
I like this stuff— Alba Acnedote.
http://www.drugstore.com/alba-botanica-natural-acnedote-face-and-body-scrub/qxp358294
Hollis Doyle
I like the Neutrogena acne body scrub better than the body wash. I sweat a lot so I break out on my upper back and even just using the body scrub every other day seems to really get rid of most of it.
MJ
I am a fan of pernox, which is a formerly-Rx, now OTC. I like the lemon one. You can get it online. Pricy but works. Very few products contain sulfite anymore, but it’s really calming (and it dries you out). My derm also recommends removing any clothing that rubs or is wet (like sports bras, bathing suits) asap after working out.
Anonymous
I use Purpose soap — lather it up and use it on my face and body. I have really oily / combination skin and it always makes my skin feel “clean”
Anonymous
My derm said to not use the Neutrogena product as it contains irritants and doesn’t actually solve the problem. She prescribed a course of prescription clindamycin wipes and using Panoxyl bar soap which is OTC. I haven’t needed to refill the prescription for several years as the Panoxyl bar has kept it away.
KinCA
Drugstore.com sells an acne body spray called Nature’s Cure that is amazing. I also like the Murad one from Sephora, but find the Nature’s Cure brand to be more effective (it has a higher concentration of salicylic acid).
I’ve also been using a CeraVe moisterizer that has salicylic acid as well – it’s the one for dry, rough, bumpy skin – and find that that does a great job of keeping my skin smooth and moisturized.
anon
nice color, nice neckline, but slutty short!
Pear
I’m 5-4, so the length might not be slutty on me. But it would be a hot mess — picture it with a tummy and an extra side of hips / thighs. Yaiii!
Anonymous
WTF! It is hardly “slutty” short, whatever that means. It may not work for a conservative office, but its a lovely dress that would look quite nice in lots of settings.
Inappropriate for Office
The “slutty” notion aside – not in an office. if the first word that comes to mind when you see the dress is “hot” or “date” then the wearer won’t be taken seriously at work. I can’t imagine any truly elegant woman wearing this.
Houda
It is a bit body conscious, so even if I am short/petite, I would not pull this off and not get double stares (I sound so ellen-esque)
ExcelNinja
Totally agree, let’s not use the S-word, but even on the superskinny model, this dress is not office-appropriate due to being too tight and too short. Can’t imagine someone wearing it if they had even a hint of curve.
Cat
can we not, with the “sl*tty”? it’s not even that short…
But, I think it’s too body-conscious for the office anyway. You can see the outline of the model’s abs and ribs through the fabric, and it looks like the kind of fabric that’s meant to be worn party-snug. Cute color though.
Something Catchy
sl*tty is a inaccurate shorthand, but it’s pithy
someone who wears a dress like that is desperate for attention, primarily male attention, and a cheap and easy wy to get it is to wear something short and tight.
seriously, we don’t know whether someone who wears that is a sl*t or not, but there’s something going on that makes someone that desperate for s*x*al affirmation or general affirmation about their looks all the time. it’s tacky and lame.
Anon
This comment is awfully heteronormative aside from being ridiculously misogynistic.
Anonymous
Riiight. Because that’s what all the gay women wear to try to get attention from other gay women.
When you drop the fancy jargon, you don’t have much left. It is an attention-seeking outfit, and as with all attention-seeking tactics in terms of attire and otherwise, there is something needy about it.
Anon
@Anonymous at 11:10am: You’re right, flannel is the preferred attention-seeking outfit for gay women.
Your comment is misogynistic because it assumes the only reason women would wear something body-hugging (not even that short!) is because she wants s3xual attention from men (there’s the heteronormative part), which makes calling her a “s1ut,” and implying there’s something “going on” to make her so “desperate,” fair. I don’t understand how some people can harbor such hatred for other women.
There’s also nothing wrong with “attention-seeking” outfits as there are many different types of attention-grabbing outfits. If I work in an office where everyone wears black but I choose to wear brights, that could arguably be attention-grabbing; gosh, I wonder what’s going on with a woman who chooses to do that, what makes her so needy, y’know?
Anonymous
@Anonymous at 11:10am: Do you really think that gay women don’t dress like that to get attention from other gay women? Seriously, have you ever seen a (high) femme before?
um..
I really don’t think this dress calls for the comments and assumptions you have listed… it’s really not that “desperate for attention.” I can think of much, much worse. High neckline, probably a suitable length on someone shorter, and I’m sure there are sizes that have a roomier fit.
tesyaa
Exactly, a normal woman who is not a model should size up.
anonymama
First of all, this dress is not particularly short or tight, even on a presumably 5’10 model, and I can’t imagine thinking that someone who wore it was “desperate for attention,” unless you are in an extremely conservative environment (and I mean conservative like Amish country or Saudi Arabia, not like a normal conservative work environment). Throw a blazer on it, and it would be indistinguishable from half the sheath dresses that are routinely posted here.
Second of all, I am appalled that you would make a judgment like that over something that is, at most (depending on fit), borderline inappropriate. Soooo mean girl (like, high school mean girl), as many other people have pointed out. Maybe a woman would wear it because she loved the color, or it was comfortable, or was on sale and went perfectly with a pair of shoes she just got. This kind of judgment is a perfect illustration of why calling other women sl*tty is so, so harmful to all women in the work environment and everywhere. Really, if a man thinks that a woman wearing something that stands out in some way, or is slightly body-conscious, is just doing that because she is desperate for attention from men, then isn’t he just giving her what she wants if he harasses her, or rapes her? After all, wasn’t she asking for it by wearing an above-the knee dress?
Leslie Knope
*applause* excellent analysis and summary. Thank you, anonymama!
Susedna
On a related, but separate matter —
Why is it that heteros*xual men never wear body-con clothes? It’s homophobia, which is related to misogyny, I’m thinking. (If you do something women do, then OBVS you’re “inferior” yadda yadda yadda that type of nonsense blah blah)
And yet, I do find it disconcerting that only women (whatever orientation) wear body-con clothes. Yes, it may be her choice and, no, she doesn’t have to be model-thin, but, it does make me uncomfortably aware that our society puts womens bodies up for display (and bashes women for it), but only women, for the most part.
Veronique
@Susedna – I think men don’t wear body-con clothes because historically they were prized for their wealth and power, not their looks. Women have always been prized for their beauty, in addition to their (family’s) potential to contribute to the family’s wealth, power, etc. To a lesser extent, that dynamic has continued, as reflected in pop culture (shows like King of Queens, couples like Beyonce and Jay Z).
Susedna
Hey Veronique :-)
Thanks for entertaining my philosophical question. I *always* want to turn things into a philosophical question…
I think the part that’s hard for me to grok is — as you say, the dynamic has continued. But our motives are invisible, our deeds are visible. So, for the confident woman, rocking her bod (whatever that shape might be), in this dress (which I admittedly find quite boring, but whatever), seems to run into a problem.
In her heart of hearts, she could be doing it to glory in her love of the turquoise color, or show how powerful her calves are, or whatever. But we can’t see those motives. To those of us who want a better world, we want to see that motive as positive– rockin’ an outfit out of self-confidence. To those who don’t seek what I consider a better world– they see that motive as negative. They think she’s attention-seeking, desperate, sl*tty, etc. etc.
But what doesn’t change is, in wearing a bodycon outfit, regardless of her motives, she *is* still on display. That is the action. We can’t know her motives. We just know that she’s now being turned into a battleground. And that some will view her as perpetuating that dynamic of women being prized primarily for their appearance.
And maybe it’s radical of me, but there are two general directions one could go:
1)for women to hide in baggy shapeless clothes to avoid being turned into a political battleground
2)for more men to start wearing bodycon stuff so it overall becomes less charged and less of a gendered thing.
Call me crazy, but I’d prefer option 2.
There is a third option–for people to be less judgmental, but I see that as a bad part of human nature and incredibly hard to change. I often look around me and wonder what sorts of beliefs and ideas the people around me *actually* hold but are afraid to admit to because they don’t want to incur the wrath of the PC police.
Anonymous
Isn’t that a bit of a straw man argument? Options are 1. wear baggy clothes, 2 get men to show skin 3. keep people from making judgements about what you wear (and honestly, if that were possible this site wouldn’t exist). How about, 4. wear clothes that fit and that don’t show a lot of leg or bust or stomach – like this: https://cloudinary-a.akamaihd.net/obaz/image/upload/t_fill_400/v1363728114/kehulww4a0xgyswnmsfj.jpg
I would also argue that there is a double standard in place, like it or not, and so women have to be careful of what they wear to work. Some women in this discussion don’t see the dress as too short, some do. Either way, I think it’s worth noting that the criticism is of The DRESS, not the woman. The OP didn’t say “slutty looking model” she said (essentially) this dress is inappropriate at work, in the same way side boob is inappropriate at work.
Mpls
Yes, let’s not let accuracy get in the way of appearing witty…
Anonymous
Wow. Something Catchy- I don’t even understand what you’re getting at. Yes, I wouldn’t wear this dress to the office, but I’d definitely wear it on a date with my partner or for drinks with the girls. I can’t even imagine a dress like this signifying that someone is “desperate for male attention.”
I can’t imagine how you normally dress (or where you live?) if you find this dress so sexual and offensive.
TO Lawyer
Regardless of the appropriateness of this dress for an office, can we please not use words like sl*tty? First of all, what you wear has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with s3xual promiscuity. Second, does no one remember the best line EVER from Mean Girls – “you all have got to stop calling each other sl*ts and wh*res. It just makes it OK for guys to call you sl*ts and wh*res.”
Sorry I don’t mean to get all soapboxy today but this really bothers me – especially because of the double-standard. Forget about clothing for a second but NO ONE would call a promiscuous guy sl*tty is a disparaging way.
TO Lawyer
*in a disparaging way
and whoops – I posted this before realizing that other people had the same reactions.
Anonymous
I would call a guy that. But hey, that’s just me.
+1
I consider myself a feminist but also very not-PC. I call men sl*ts in a disparaging way all the time.
anonymama
But the implications of calling a guy that are very very different than when you call a woman that.
Ru
What anonymama said. There is definitely a societal/gendered context for the word s!ut and even though you’re calling a man s1ut, it’s always referencing women as the standard application of that slur.
These slurs that are typically used for women….they’re problematic. It’s like people using the word ni55er for non-blacks, or blacks using the word themselves. There’s too much weight to these words to throw them around while pretending that they can stand alone. They can’t.
TCFKAG
I would actually reverse this a little – I think we – as presumably adult women – need to stop calling each other sl*ts and wh*res because it just makes it okay for the teenage girls in our lives to call eachother sl*ts and wh*res.
Does it matter here – on this website – where there are presumably a minimal to vanishingly small number of younger girls reading? No. But I spend way too much time on Tumblr and Facebook (less so there b/c I mostly follow family and friends) seeing teen girls get called these words and worse by strangers and anons and I assume they think its okay because they hear their parents or people on television or others on the internet use it. So scr*w what guys say – we should use language we want other women to use when talking about us.
Because trust me – one day you’re going to show up to work in something too short or too tight or too bright or too “attention seeking” and women in your office are going to have to roads to follow – they can shrug it off and laugh (oops she grabbed the wrong thing out of the closet this morning) or they can titter and call you something horrible. You should think about what you want to happen.
pnkrokhockeymom
+1,000,000,000,000
Houda
Yes, yes , yes.
There is a saying that roughly means: “Do onto others as you want to be done to you”.
It is my mantra and I feel this is one situation where many of us can relate.
You gain a couple of pounds every now and then and have nothing to wear, then pick the wrong dress and you are already late. It can happen to anyone.
Mpls
When did 2 inches above the knee (on someone who is probably taller than average) require such pejorative adjectives?
Anonymous
It’s a little too body-con for my office, and we’re a pretty lenient (finance) business casual.
AIMS
Agree. Length is fine, considering this woman is likely 5’9+ but it’s probably a bit too clingy for most offices, particularly if you are on the curvier side of things.
TBK
What does skirt length have to do with promiscuity?
A Nonny Moose
Reminds me of this gem.
http://earthsongs.tumblr.com/post/40181276191/judgments
AnonInfinity
Wow. That is really powerful. Thanks for posting it.
Ellen
This is a great PICTURE! Thank’s for posteing it!!!!!
This explain’s why I never wear any work skirt’s that are MORE then 1″ above the KNEE. That is b/c I do NOT want Frank to be ooogleing me and thinking about what would happen if I wore my skirt’s another inch or two HIGHER then that.
Even the manageing partner does NOT want me to be to provocative, even in the court even tho he know’s the judge is “a leg man” — I told him what am I a chicken, so I should show my leg’s to him, and the manageing partner agreed that I should NOT. It makes him focus on my arguement’s and MIND, NOT my clotheing or my leg’s. FOOEY on men that just look at us for our bodie’s and NOT our mind’s. We are attorney’s at law first; we are NOT these guy’s play dolls. DOUBEL FOOEY on men that do NOT respect us for our mind’s.
Bonnie
I really don’t like keyhole neck openings. They just scream to me “hey, look at my cleavage.”
preg anon
I love keyhole openings! I don’t look good in high neck crews (because of my larger b*st) but the keyhole makes it work. Obviously they shouldn’t actually show c l e a vage, but this one doesn’t even get close.
momentsofabsurdity
In a ridiculous preference of the day, I don’t really like keyhole necks (on me) either, but not for that reason. I just feel like they are too wishy-washy. Be an open neck or a high neck but pick a side.
Fun fact – I dislike peep toe shoes for similar reason.
Hollis
I hate keyhole openings on the front. You can’t help but look at them, and you don’t want people to be looking straight at your chest. Keyhole openings in the back are fine though since you don’t notice people staring at your back.
AnnonFoo
Thank goodness I read this blog. There are so many young women (in my age group) at my office who regularly wear dresses of such length hitting 3-4 inches above knees when standing up. I would have thought this was normal for business casual if I did not have advice from wise and stylish ladies here.
Susedna
I’m seeing that, too. It makes me think about this article probably in NYMag about how to sit down on the subway if you’re wearing something with a short hemline. (As you’re lowering yourself down to sit, brush your skirt against your bum so you don’t end up with your rear and the skin on your upper legs touching the subway seat.) It cracked me up.
For all the controversy this dress is causing above-thread, I think it’s both not work-appropriate for the more conservative offices, and kinda meh. I’m actually thinking that dress isn’t all that interesting-looking.
KLG
Just want to second all the great comments about why calling this dress slutty short or attention seeking isn’t great. I personally wouldn’t wear something like this to work but I can’t really imagine batting an eye at a coworker who was wearing it with a cardigan and office appropriate shoes. I was honestly surprised at how inappropriate people thought this was and I’m usually on the formal/stodgy side of things here.
Kanye East
Who let the Westboro Baptist Church in here?!
Baconpancakes
+1
Correction
I believe this was a troll, not the WBC. And s/he seems to have had a good deal of success today. Look at how worked up everyone is over a point they basically all agree on, and all the sub-arguments (or at least sub-snaps) that have erupted.
Anonymous
Oh you can’t say that word anymore here either. We always have to be nice here, no calling trolls allowed
zora
You’re totally allowed to call someone a troll… if it’s accurate. And I’m allowed to call someone a mean girl, if it’s accurate.
Correction
I understand that (am a regular reader). But I believe this is absolutely a troll, based on the name, the substance of the comment (esp. given what the dress looks like), the failure to respond when one million people got huffy….
anon
fwiw not a troll. I dashed off a quick comment before being pulled in to an insanely long meeting and just now checking this thread – and i’m incredibly surprised. there was no larger anti-feminist agenda, I didn’t mean to insult anyone, I was responding to my initial impression of the dress. My impression was of the dress , not any particular woman’t choice of se*ual activity. If my daughter asked for advice on wearing it to work, I would advise against it. that is all.
I'm Here For The LOLZ
I am not a fan of the original comment, think it’s hilarious that the whole hive responded negatively to the “sl@tty” description like it is their job. So easy to troll this place.
mer
Anyone have a heat protection product for hair that they love? I am addicted to blowouts & hot rollers and starting to see lots of split ends/fuzziness, so I’d really appreciate any suggestions! TIA!
AnonInfinity
Moroccan Oil changed my life.
MaggieLizer
+1. I have really fine hair and the spray works well for me. I also use a little bit of Bed Head After Party.
Emmabean
Can you point me towards a product? Thanks!
Anon
I used Organx brand Moroccan oil and Redkin blow dry lotion in the pink bottle.
Neha
I love Sebastian Trilliant. I flat iron my hair several times a week. It’s one of the only hair products I’ve re-purchased multiple times.
Leigh
I use Moroccan oil and like it for when my hair is dry; I haven’t noticed wonderful heat protectant qualities though. If you’re looking for a good deep conditioner to help with the split ends/fuzziness that you have now, I just recently purchased Vidal Sassoon’s Pro Series Restoring Repair One Minute Mask, and I LOVE it. I have been using that as my conditioner when I wash my hair, and it works amazingly.
Ru
Straight up olive oil or coconut oil. Apply to ends and voila. Alternatively, smear a lot on your hair once a week for deep conditioning.
Susedna
I’ve tried this for a few weeks, and I’m still a frizzbeast.
Maybe I need to do this more often? And continue doing this for more weeks?
Ru
Are you brushing your hair? Use a comb. Also, L’oreal’s line of sulfate-free shampoos Everpure has made my hair so silky that I stopped using conditioner (even though I bleached the h3ll out of my hair to make it rough).
For styling, I take a drop and run it through the bottom six inches of my hair. Comb through with fingers. NO BRUSHING.
Susedna
I comb my hair. But I’m prone to knots, so I spend a lot of time untangling them with my fingers. I’ll try taking just a drop and running it through the ends.
I’ve never used that L’oreal shampoo, but I’ll try it. The shampoo I’ve used a lot lately is Tressemme (sp?) because I like the smell, but it’s doing nothing for the frizz.
Anon
I know everyone says it is bad, but I use Pantene–the one that says will make hair smooth or something and it works really well for me.
KinCA
I like the Alterna Kendi Dry Oil Mist – I’ve noticed it does a good job of smoothing my hair if I spray it before I blow dry. I’ll also apply Argan Oil to my ends at night.
Woods-comma-Elle
Question for fellow oily-skinned ladies.
My project for finding the perfect foundation continues. I have tried a bunch and nothing stays on my t-zone for more than an hour. I have managed to get the visible oiliness under control a bit, but I still can’t get make-up to stay and my nose/chin always looks really red in contrast to the rest of my face that is still covered by foundation. Any recommendations for good coverage and lasting foundation welcome. I do use primer (have tried Smashbox, Laura Mercier and currently have Korres but TBH I can’t tell any difference with primer or no primer days).
For reference, I have tried the following brands already:
Lancome 24 hour teint – by far the worst, I actually complained
Estee Lauder
Bobbi Brown – they gave me the one that’s like a compact and it ran out within a week
Chanel
Mac (this was bad, it ended up all flakey)
Bare Minerals (it’s ok, but I always end up having to still wear other foundation and cake it on to get enough coverage)
Dior (not awful but still not great)
Laura Mercier (the best by far but still only stays on for an hour or so).
I think Clinique and Clarins are next on the list…
Anonymous
I love YSL touche eclat for my oily skin. It stays all day. I use a primer (Tarte) and the combination really lasts.
TBK
I haven’t tried them, but I think Urban Decay has some setting sprays that are intended to make your make-up stay put. You might try those?
JessBee
Has anyone tried one of these? I’m curious about how well they work, especially for oily/acne-prone skin.
Pear -- Pear needs shorts!
I am oily. I stay away from foundation. I am currently using a clean + clear oil-absorbing zit cream on forehead / nose / chin (from the drug store — my skin gets blotchy from benzoil peroxide, plus it ruins my towels / clothes) and a powder with sunscreen (currently bare minerals / mineral veil / peter thomas roth depending on what I grab or is in my bag).
Do you *need* foundation? I have graduated to sometimes concealer where / when I need it, but generally I don’t even bother with that.
I’ve been doing this since my 20s and am in my 40s now (still oily — maybe it will keep the wrinkles off for a bit longer)? I don’t think that my skin is perfect, but I have found that this works for me — sun protection / oil minimization / powder to keep me relatively glowy but not overly done.
Woods-comma-Elle
Yeah I guess I wouldn’t necessarily need foundation, but I need coverage and I find that concealer just isn’t enough. I had hoped that by my 30s I wouldn’t get spots anymore, but much of it is (1) the oiliness, (2) hormones and (3) redness/scars from old spots.
MJ
Elle,
I second that foundation is not your friend if you truly have oily skin. I would not use primer or anything–I don’t even use face lotion most days. However, I do use MAC studiofix, which is a powder foundation, in a compact. There are urban legends that this product _causes_ breakouts, but I do not find that to be the case. Try Studiofix. It has good coverage and last all day. This, coupled with Maybelline 24-hour Superstay concealer keeps me all covered, all day.
Anonymous
I second mac studiofix. It has very good coverage for a powder. My skin isn’t really oily anymore but in my oily years I found it was the only thing that worked well for me.
mascot
For redness reduction, I like the Clinique anti-redness product line (thanks to the hive-members for that tip). Smashbox also makes a color correcting primer that might help even if the foundation comes off. I alternate between the Smashbox primer plus Bare Minerals Matte (loose, the compact is even messier) and Juice CC cream with a finishing powder on top. Reducing the redness made me much more tolerant of my foundation fading.
Have you tried Make-Up Forever? It may not work if you are sensitive to fragrance, but it does stay on. Also, there are some setting sprays that might be worth looking into (model in a bottle, elf, urban decay)
Mrs. Jones
I recently tried Make Up For Ever foundation and like it for my shiny skin.
Veronique
+1 for Makeup Forever. I wore it when I was in my friend’s wedding (Baltimore! August!) and it lasted all day/night. I wore it with primer (I think Smashbox), so I don’t know how much of a difference that made.
Anonymous
Third the recommendation for Make Up For Ever. It really stays put. I too am oily and find their Mat Velvet works much better than their HD foundation.
Anon
I wore Makeup Forever HD Foundation to my college graduation – black polyester robe, 85 degree heat, bright sunshine – and it didn’t budge AT ALL.
eek
I’ve heard good things about Armani foundation, but no personal experience
Woods-comma-Elle
I actually heard this, too, and I got a sample. Forgot to add it to the list but it wasn’t good :(
eek
BOO!
AIMS
Are you using a primer? That will help the most, I’d think. Also I recently discovered Boscia blotting papers and I really like how they get rid of excess shine without disturbing my makeup.
I don’t wear much foundation lately but I really like YSL Touche Eclat, both for not looking cakey and for staying on.
Neha
I like Makeup Forever HD Foundation and Mat Velvet. I’ve been using a L’Oreal BB cream and then layering my foundation over that. I also set it with powder. I like MAC Prep + Prime and MAC Blot Powder.
I also use those oil-absorbing blotting sheets throughout the day. There are many face primers on the market, but I have yet to find one that works for me. Smashbox is a popular one, but the Monistant Anti-Chafing gel is supposed to be a non-traditonal drugstore alternative. Good luck!
NOLA
Have you tried loose powder to set it? That might help.
JessBee
Loose powder, even from oil-control lines, on my super-oily skin actually gets *more* oily than a matte foundation, weirdly enough. I was super bummed to find this out, as I too had hoped that powder over the top was the solution. :(
Cornellian
I don’t have oily skin, but I wonder if Fresh’s umbrian clay foundation (or concealer) would be a good fit. I can only use it in the summer, as it’s drying otherwise, and it’s pretty heavy coverage.
Anon
I use stila perfect & correct foundation, over smash box light primer – works pretty well for my oily skin.
Anon
Oh yeah – also add makeup forever translucent hd powder to set. Makes a huge difference.
Anonymous
Love this stuff! Use it over their Mat Velvet foundation. It’s just silica, so read here for a cheaper alternative if you’re interested: http://www.weddingbee.com/2011/12/29/helpful-series-ace-your-face-pt-1/#more-225510)
Anon
Armani. Amazing foundation.
Earth
Try Hourglass immaculate liquid powder foundation after their primer.Works for me as I have very oily skin .
Calla
Clinique foundation tends to be orange, fyi. Not sure of your skin tone, so if it works for you I like the formulas, but I’m light neutral and I cannot wear Clinique. I also found Clarins nice — for my oily skin, Everlasting worked just as well as Ever Matte. Currently, I’ve been using Urban Decay Naked with a primer and the UD De-Slick spray and I really like it. (If it’s hot I do have to do a touch-up towards the end of the work day but I’ve resigned myself to the fact that nothing that matches my skin tone and works with my sensitive skin is going to hold up to 36-hour claims, and one touch-up isn’t that bad.)
If you haven’t, I’d also recommend experimenting with skincare to help with getting the makeup to stick too. I used to over-combat my oily skin with skincare products and when I switched to more calming stuff, I stay more matte and my makeup lasts longer.
EB
I’ve found the exact opposite to be true for me with Clinique. I’m also a light neutral, and I find Clinique’s foundations to be way too pink for me.
Any suggestions on calming products? Neutrogena now has an Ultra Gentle line, but it’s pretty heavily fragranced and really irritated my skin. I don’t understand why their Ultra Gentle line is fragranced, and many of their other, non-sensitive skin specific products are fragrance-free.
Calla
I use all Lush right now; I know some folks aren’t crazy about them because they still use parabens in some products, but my face used to be an oily red breakout mess and now it’s not, so it works for me! I use Angels on Bare Skin cleanser and Eau Roma toner (both have rose and lavender), and for moisturizer I use Enzymion in the summer and Vanishing Cream the rest of the time.
I know what you mean about fragrances, I bought some face wash at Whole Foods a few months back thinking it would work fine in a pinch and it was still heavily scented and my skin felt so tight and itchy afterwards, ugh.
Ru
I’ve also started using the Urban Decay N@ked foundation and it is AMAZING. It doesn’t slide off my face like other foundations, including Bare Minerals. The color and texture is perfect. It really does look like my skin. I prime it with Becca, which I find to be a bit better than Smashbox, apply UD foundation, and then set with the Bare Minerals Mineral Veil which is key for my skin.
Also, moisturizing regularly is really important to managing oil production, which feels gross in this weather. I’ve been using the Clinique dark spot corrector as a moisturizer and it’s light and not greasy at all.
I’ve been meaning to try Revlon Colorstay foundation. I’ve also heard a lot of good things about Kat von D’s foundation line.
Anon
You need something like a mattefying lotion to use before you put on your foundation. I use one from Paula’s Choice and I use the BB Cream from Clinique and it stays on all day.
Anonymous
Aww thanks so much you guys! Looks liks Make-up Forever is not easy to obtain in the UK, but will look into it.
I love this site!
Woods-comma-Elle
Ha! That was me, obviously, forgot to put my name!
anon
Try stay by benefit. It is meant for undereye makeup but I put it on my nose and it makes my MUFE foundation stay on for hours.
new york associate
Two recommendations:
1) Anything in the Benefit line. I use their concealers, not their foundations, but the concealers are like magic and stay put.
2) BB Cream. I use the Aveeno Clear Complexion BB Cream and it gives me good coverage and STAYS. Most makeup slides off me, but this stuff requires a washcloth and a cleanser to remove at night.
JessBee
This is an awesome rec, thanks! I’ve shied away from BB creams, because they all seem so focused on moisturizing and age-defying — it’s good to hear that there’s a oil-control option out there, from a drug store brand, no less!
JessBee
This is so timely — I’m looking for a new foundation/makeup routine, and my biggest problem is very oily, acne-prone skin. Thanks for posting your thoughts so far! I usually stick to drugstore brands, because I’m cheap, but I’ve been wondering whether more investment in my foundation would help. Right now, I’m using Mary Kay’s Medium Coverage foundation (a good friend started selling MK, so I bought some). It doesn’t get as totally shiny as previous attempts, but it doesn’t last all day either. I’ll be really interested to hear how Clinique goes for you — since I’ve started using their acne system (when my beloved SkinID went away), I’ve been considering their foundations as well.
Pear -- Pear needs shorts!
Anyone have any good recommendations for mall stores for chino-type shorts for a curvy person or general pear-shaped lower half? I need to go return something and want to try on things in person rather than do the perpetual mail-order-and-return. Nordies / JCrew / Banana / etc. are all options. For some reason places that shout about their curvy pants are silent on shorts.
FWIW, the Halogen Taylor Curvy pants fit me in a 6 but I’m finding other sizes all over the place (Banana pants I am a 10 in).
CFT
I really like LOFT shorts, and I’m an exaggerated pear/bubble butt. Plus they have a lot of cute colors and prints, and when I got them they were $25 or so.
Brant
Agree with Loft shorts. I’m an 8/10 pear. The Loft shorts in the “curvy” or “julie” fit fit my butt and thighs, which is very uncommon.
Shorts
I just bought two pairs of Old Navy 5-inch inseam shorts (for $8 each). They are casual shorts (with cute prints and colors) and fit my pear well. They had longer Bermuda shorts that I thought about trying on, but decided to ease into shorts-wearing instead!
EC MD
I am curvy/pear and second Old Navy much to my surprise. I ordered a pair of shorts there for a vacation and they have ended up being my go-to shorts for summer.
big dipper
Yes to Old Navy. I own exactly 2 pairs of shorts. They are the chinos from Old Navy, and they are going on 5 summers of near constant wear now. They are amazingly comfortable, cute and apparently durable.
mascot
I feel like there were some suggestions on this at the end of last week (can’t find the thread). Old Navy and Loft were both mentioned. Old Navy has a 7″ inseam short that I really like, but it is online only.
shorts advice
I’m a pear and Eddie Bauer has a style that’s fitting me really well. I bought them this season, so I would assume they’re still there. I don’t think they were specifically labeled as “curvy,” but they fit me well. They’re my go-to pair of shorts and I NEVER wear shorts because I hate them so much on my shape. Plus they are the perfect length (I think around 5″ or 7″) and don’t ride up on the inseam.
Gus
Yes, those are still there! I bought a pair last summer that worked really well for me, and just went back to buy another pair. They also have them at the Eddie Bauer outlet.
BB
I’m a sort-of pear, but I definitely have the big thighs and butt. Some of the J. Crew shorts fit me pretty well (I just got a pair of the Liberty ones, and they fit great). Another brand you can try if you want more casual shorts is Prana (usually sold online or at REI-type stores). I’ve had very good fitting experiences with all their pants and shorts.
Hollis Doyle
Try the Gap boyfriend roll-up shorts. Beware though, you will have to size down at least one size and the neon colors are very bright. But there are tons of color options and you can roll them up or down to make them the right length. They also come in talls and petites too.
preg anon
My day started off badly with me spilling an entire to go mug of coffee in my purse, but then the guy at Starbucks saw what had happened and bought my coffee for me! Seriously, SUCH a nice gesture. In my emotional state, I could have cried.
preg anon
By the way, I mean the guy who works at Starbucks, not a customer, which makes it even more touching. :)
Anita
Awww– how nice! I definitely cried over spilled milk, coffee, juice, etc. while pregnant (and was very clumsy so that happened frequently).
eek
I swear, sometimes it truly is the little things that make all the difference in the day.
Miz Swizz
Breaking in a new pair of patent leather shoes today. I forgot how unforgiving they are the first few times you wear them.
AIMS
I’ve actually more or less given up on patent leather shoes for this reason. I still have some old pairs I feel bad throwing away and once in a while I find a pair that I can wear with tights, but for summer with bare feet, forget it. Not worth the shininess.
Anonymous
interesting. many of my work shoes are patent and i’ve never had an issue breaking them in.
Cora
Are they fake patent?
Hollis
I had a pair of patent slingbacks that ripped up the back of my ankles so badly that I never wore them again. I never buy patent shoes that are not meant to be worn with socks.
Miz Swizz
I have feet that are slightly too wide for regular but too narrow for wide so it usually takes a few times to get the shoes stretched where I need them. I obviously brought another pair of shoes to wear for the walk home.
Young Consultant
I have also firmly given up patent leather. They will never break in for me and constantly create unbearable blisters.
Nice Purses
OK — I got a nice (for me) tote-type purse yesterday that has carry handles and shoulder straps. It is tan.
And then I read the business lunch thread. I didn’t realize that I hadn’t thought through the whole what-do-I-do-with-it thing for lunch! And the purse that I pined for and love is at home today.
My strap bags (not big) have gotten slung over my chair (or in a chair if there is an open one or in the seat in a booth). My clutch bags just go in my lap. For a tote (not huge), if it has a strap, I was thinking of just putting it over my chair if I didn’t have another space for it (same with a cross-body bag). Wristlets I put on my lap and my other bag has feet on it, so I’ve just been putting it wherever. I don’t put bags on the table just because any place that might have food on it probably should have something on it that has been on the floor of my car or various counters in public bathrooms, etc.
TBK
I’ve always carried a large leather tote for work. But I have a wristlet wallet that can also hold my phone so that’s what I carry when I go out to lunch. You probably just need a smaller purse to put in the big purse.
wristlet recs?
Do you have a good rec for wristlet wallet? Have been looking and they all seem either 2 small-meant for a subset of what i usually carry in my wallet or huge–more like a clutch.
Veronique
Can you give an example (in regular wallet form) of the size you want? Huge and small are extremely subjective when it comes to purses!
wristlet recs?
point taken…too fried from work to put coherent answer together now. thanks anyway. maybe i don’t even know exactly what i am looking for.
Digby
Check out Kate Spade – I have one that I’m pretty sure I bought this year – big enough for cell phone, couple of cards, cash, lip balm, a key or two. I wasn’t convinced I would find it useful when I bought it, but now I love it.
TCFKAG
I also carry a wristlet essentially (mine might qualify as being big enough to be called a tote – my friend made it but you could find something similar made on easy.) The nice thing on Etsy is they tend to come in a variety of sizes so you can essentially customize to you.
As far as if you are going on a business lunch – I just tuck my bag under the chair. Is it more complicated than that? Did I miss something?
Russia Repeat
For a large bag, I usually hook it over my knee and hold between my legs (how I keep it off the subways floor when I get a seat).
Anon
I’m not sure if I’m looking for advice, or just to vent, so bear with me. I’m in a job I hate. I’ve been here for about a year and four months. I’m a lawyer and this isn’t a lawyer job. I started off in big law, then took a prestigious temporary position for two years. We moved out of state for a little over a year because my husband really wanted to try living someplace slower-paced, and because he thought he wanted to go to grad school at a particular school. I was happy in the city we were living in (let’s call that City A), but was willing to try the new place (Small City B) and to give my husband a chance for this grad program. I tried for almost a year to find work in Small City B, with no luck. There was one job with a small firm that was offered to me, but it was such a bad place to work that one of the associates had actually begged me not to even apply there. I also just didn’t really like Small City B. I missed City A, including its faster pace. I felt like all my friends were still doing all these great things back in City A and I was missing out (they work on the kinds of things that wind up in the news, so I was constantly seeing things they were working on, all while I was unemployed month after month). I also just didn’t feel like I fit in.
We made the decision to move back to City A about 18 months ago. I still didn’t have a job and since I’m the main breadwinner in our family, this was a huge deal. I applied for jobs, and had some interviews, but was always second- or third-runner up. I didn’t help that I’d been unemployed now for almost a year. So when my current job came along, I didn’t feel like I could turn it down, even though I really, really wanted to.
The job had a year-long contract so I decided to just suck it up and do the year. It was awful from the start. I was told it was a senior level position but it never has been. I just feel ashamed of it. I never want to run into people from my old firm because I don’t what them to know what kind of work I do now. It’s not objectively terrible, but I had amazing jobs in the past and this is a job I could have done out of high school. Also, the work environment here is awful. Morale is terrible. The boss is a micromanager. I’m being held accountable for getting things done I couldn’t possibly get done because I haven’t been given the tools I need to do them (it’s like I was told to build a house but wasn’t allowed to have any lumber).
I’m looking for a new job and had a really promising series of interviews for a job that would have been perfect. Not only would it have been a great job, but it would have opened lots of doors for future jobs. But I’ve heard nothing on that job now for months, even though I’ve been told I’m still in the running. I’ve applied for other jobs, too, but I’m just not a good fit anymore for lawyer jobs. I never wanted to leave law, but I don’t see how to get back. People are now suggesting legal support type jobs (e.g., jobs at companies that provide services to law firms). I would find it entirely humiliating to be in one of those jobs. I think they’re fine jobs and I can see the benefits if what you really wanted was to not practice law, or to have better hours, or whatever. But I’m still incredibly ambitious. I just feel like I stepped off the path when I followed my husband to Small City B and I’ll never get back on. Even City A doesn’t feel the same anymore because I still feel like I’m outside my old life looking in. It’s totally useless to say it, but I just want my old life back.
Meanwhile, I realize that feeling this way isn’t helping my job search. On Sunday, I was supposed the spend the day applying to jobs, but instead I spent the day lying on my bed crying and got nothing done. I’m just so afraid I’m not going to be able to get out of here. I tried getting a better job two years ago, first in Small City B then here, and failed. Now it’s two years later and I have a ten month gap on my resume and a cr@ppy job on the top line, so why would it be any better now? I just feel so hopeless about it all.
AIMS
I’m sorry. That sucks. Looking for work is depressing and I think that feeling is only exacerbated when you feel like you can identify the “wrong turn” or “missed opportunity” that got you to where you are. I think it’s totally fine to give yourself a day or two to just take a break from it. If you start feeling like you did on Sunday, just give yourself permission to not deal with it and go take a walk or get a latte or some other small treat instead of just lying on the couch feeling bad about lying on the couch. And as hopeless as it might seem, it’s not. If you’ve been second or third runner up, that means you will get to first choice at some point if you just stick with it (easier said than done, I know). Just remind yourself that the prior great stuff on your resume will always be on your resume! It’s always going to open doors for you and if you’re set on getting back to where you were, you will. As a matter of fact, if I were you I would stop feeling embarrassed about your current position and rather than avoiding former colleagues, start to seek them out – network with them, it may actually lead to new opportunities. Also, maybe consider volunteering or clerking. I think that doing pro bono work could be a great way to indicate that you are still using your legal skills while in a non-legal position.
eek
My main takeaway is that you seem really high achieving/high performing and that a lot of your sense of self comes from your job. You’re also sound really exhausted from the last few years, you sound like you feel like you don’t measure up to your peers (which you shouldn’t feel that way), and possibly down/depressed/overwhelmed. Also, how old are you? Your feelings are fairly normal if you’re in your 20s/right at 30.
Can you explain your 10 month gap? If so, don’t worry. I had a 9 mo gap on mine from last year, but it was NBD.
Can you afford career counseling services? That really might help you figure out a plan, move forward from your past, and identify other types of careers that might be good for you. Do you have a good network that you can network with? A mentor?
Re: your current job, don’t be ashamed – a lot of people have tasks that they feel aren’t reflective of their skillset/potential. I take meeting minutes for meetings I run/facilitate and manage a lot of calendar invitations and I have a Master’s and some professional certifications, too. But, so does pretty much everyone else here at my very large global firm. Even folks that are several levels above me. It’s just how it is.
Let me know if you want to chat offline – hang in there. It will get better.
OP
I’m mid-30s, which makes it worse. I feel like I’m supposed to be hitting my stride now, but that I’m going to miss the boat and just putter through the rest of my career.
Anon
You hit a small bump in the road – everyone does. 99.9% of people do, including the most successful ones. You will get through this you will be stronger for it. This drawing helped me:
http://theamericanceo.com/2013/04/04/success-is-not-a-straight-line/
eek
Awww – that sucks. I was mid-30s when I unexpectedly hit unemployment, but I don’t recall how I felt compared to some of my friends and their jobs. I have a pretty good feeling that you’ll come out of this just fine :) Hang in there!
Anon
I don’r have any advice but I wanted to let you know I am in a very similar situation as you so you are not alone! I know it is much easier said that done but keep your head up and always remember “this too shall pass”. You will get back on your feet and this will be a blip on the radar. It was hard for me to believe this at first but it is true. Attitude is really everything.
I know you have heard this 1000 times but network for jobs because the people that personally know you understand the situation you are in and will vouche for you. Also, reframe the situation. You tried relocating for DH’s career, it didn’t work out the way you hoped, now you are looking for something new. People do this all the time and it is not unusal. Can you include in your cover letter that you relocated for an opportunity for your husband and are now back in City A, looking to do the same type of work you did before you left? Can other ladies weigh in on if this a good idea? Have you worked with a recruiter? Can you go back to your original firm? Do any of your connections at your old firm have connections at other firms?
Also, don’t think you aren’t a good fit for the jobs you want. You are intelligent and ambitious – of course you are a good fit! That is exactly what employers are looking for. People telling you to take support jobs are trying to be helpful but it sounds like you know what you really want, just filter out their comments.
OP
Ladies, you’ve all been really helpful. Really helpful. I was sitting here trying very hard not to cry at my desk, wondering how I was going to keep it together for the rest of the day, and your comments have made me feel so much better. Thank you for reading my novel-long post, and thanks for the encouragement.
Moonstone
Just wanted to chime in here to say that I experienced exactly the same embarrassment during two times in my life: once when I was laid off and out of work for 10 months, and then for the last three years (!) of my way-beneath-my-skills job. I could not shake the feeling of shame. It was particularly bad because I stopped going out and meeting new people because I did not want to admit that I was doing basically an admin job. But the truth was, no one was judging me except me. It took a long time to climb out of that hole. Best of luck to you.
Anon
A couple of thoughts. First, definitely work your network – even your former coworkers. They won’t judge your current role the way you think they will, and they know you and your capabilities – they will want to help. They will know of opportunities, and more importantly, they will know people that you should meet and network with, so ask them!
I think recruiters are going to be tougher because they are often trying to fill a very specific box for their client company or firm, and it can be difficult to even get in front of someone making a hiring decision if you don’t ‘check’ that box exactly.
Most importantly, you are NOT permanently out of the legal market. You may have taken a detail (for very understandable reasons), but you still have the training and experiences that you gained in City A. Hang in there!
LadyE
Can I ask where your husband is in all this? Is he being supportive? Is he appreciative that you bent over backwards to move to a new city and heroically have been on the job market continuously for two years while feeling under the gun because you’re the primary breadwinner?
Did he take full advantage of opportunities in Small City B, honoring your sacrifice? If he didn’t take advantage of that graduate program or the “good” parts of living in City B, do resent that he didn’t live up to his end of the bargain? In your situation, I’d probably have resentment toward my husband tangled up in resentment towards my job and the economy. Is that part of you feeling stuck? If so, it might be time for some preemptive therapy to help sort out all those layers of frustration and resentment.
Signed,
Totally and unapologetically projecting because I relocated for a guy to a job market that was awful for me but awesome for him
Susedna
+1 LadyE. Your post made me go back and re-read the OPs first post.
This jumped out at me: “We moved out of state for a little over a year because my husband really wanted to try living someplace slower-paced, and because he thought he wanted to go to grad school at a particular school.”
It makes it sound like they moved before the husband was even sure he wanted to go to that school, which, if true, sounds precipitous and not stellar-decision-making since it would affect 2 careers instead of just 1, and then it also sounds like he ultimately didn’t want to go to a school located near that smaller city.
OP, did I read that correctly? But I echo LadyE’s questions — what did your husband do once you relocated to the smaller city? And has he been supportive about your getting back into something that you’d like more?
Anon for this
Interesting perspective. When DH got into MBA programs, we opted as a couple to have him attend a decent (top 30-50, not sure where) but not top tier program in our city. He got 60% of tuition covered, and it meant I could keep my job. We bought a house, I got recruited for a new job in our city, and have been promoted once and gotten a second big $$ increase. He turned down a top 15 MBA program. He’s been out of his program for 2 years, and is not really where he thought he’d be after his MBA program.
Financially, I’m able to support us as he continues to find the “right fit” job (he’s been employed, but changed jobs once and recently got laid off when his startup went under)–but support means “pay the bills” not “live the life we have been planning to live as a dual income couple.” Anyway…he partially blames the MBA program, partially feels a general lack of direction/stagnation, and I know he’s a little bitter about having stayed here in this city, although he loves the city and is happy my job has worked out the way it has.
Any thoughts on how I can continue to support him? He’s putting the pressure on himself in terms of not making enough/not being the primary breadwinner/not meeting his (and our) expectations for what he’d be doing after quitting his old job and heading off to business school. He’s also now unemployed, which adds to his stress (working at below market rate was okay, back when he was at a young/going places startup…which is no longer.)
Susedna
Any chance you could convince him to try therapy?
Gender roles hurt women AND men; and I’m getting the sense that on some level, he subscribes to a little bit of the whole “man must be primary breadwinner” part of the gender roles thing. It seems to be dragging him down.
It might be helpful if he gets counseling, possibly from a male counselor (if this sort of reassurance matters more to him coming from a man. Not saying it’s right, but addressing it as a possibility).
Sometimes, spouses tend to get “immune” to the supportive statements the other spouse makes. They can dismiss the supportive stuff with, “well, she’s my wife, of course she’s supposed to tell me I’m great even if I’m not pulling my weight as a BREADWINNING MAN (TM)”. Hearing it from a third-party, and from a guy (again, if it matters to him), might be freeing.
I value my work, I see it as part (but not all of) my identity and I would be sad to lose that aspect of my life and identity. But it always gives me a pang when I hear that someone’s allowing that to hurt them, perhaps more than it should. Your DH’s career not being where he’d like it to be has no bearing on his wonderfulness as a human being. Good luck in getting him to internalize that. :-)
Jo March
ps Susedna. You’re fabulous. It’s great to have your voice around here again!
Susedna
Thanks. I’ve missed you all.
Separately, I’m on a shared workstation today. And you know, there was a little paranoid bit of me thinking — what if later on, I forget to close this browser or clear the history or whatnot and whoever else uses this workstation sees this site open?
And then I got a grip. There’s some good stuff here and from yesterday (all those helpful things on where to live in DC gave me the warm fuzzies. Plus, the good advice you all gave the poster with the scary, aggressive-drunk roommate.) Maybe it’d be helpful for whomever else who uses this workstation to learn about this site. :-)
L
Shared workstation calls for private browsing. No history. Granted IT can still see, but no accidental sharing of thissite.
Susedna
Thanks, L.
I hadn’t thought of that. Me = finance geek, but IT dunce.
LadyE
For what it’s worth, Anon, I think the two of you made the right call on which MBA program he should attend. The difference between Top 15 (out of target city) and mid-level (in target city) is really not all that huge as he might be building it up in his mind now with “what if’s.”
I’ll echo Susedna that therapy is valuable when there’s simmering resentment against, well, anything in one’s life, particularly if it’s tied up in gender roles and expectations of what it means to be a good partner.
When I felt stuck in this way, I’d have appreciated it if my partner (1) had been humble and realized that his success was made possible by my sacrifice and expressed willingness and even excitement to switch priorities to let me take point in the future even if it caused our family income to take a hit. For me, this might have meant periodically checking for opportunities and networking in easier job markets for me. (2) Made my happiness a clear priority, financially and otherwise, even when I felt that my gym membership/therapy/whatever was a burden because I made less money.
My case is different than yours, but maybe instructive? I took a postdoc, so a 2-year underpaid contract position, in his target region in part because he stuck it out for a year at a frustrating job for me when I was finishing my PhD (I got the offer first and then he followed, unemployed and living with me and friends rent-free. He used this time to network until he got his dream job. He also nursed me back to health after surgery during this time.). Apparently if I had really loved him and had really been willing to sacrifice for him, I would have originally moved to the target city proper instead of his target region. Doing long distance (two hours away) felt like it was all my fault, despite the fact that I had tried and failed to get jobs in his target city and other postdoc options would have been a large step down in terms of prestige. I felt so guilty that I was willing to leave the postdoc early for an industrial job in the “right” city, which would have resulted in my having to leave research (the whole reason I went to the PhD). That was around the time he dumped me, perhaps because I wasn’t the most pleasant person to be around because I was, unsurprisingly, depressed (I was still slowly rehabbing after surgery and did not know a single person in my new city. I was sans support network and sans hobbies thanks to PT appointments, long distance, and wedding planning while feeling like the long distance was all my fault – no wonder I was depressed! Meanwhile he was reuniting with all of his friends from college while working his dream job and drinking the koolaid that he’s god’s gift to business in the first quarter of his MBA program).
A good partner would have kicked my butt/our butts into therapy when it was clear I didn’t have the emotional bandwidth to admit that we needed it. He was not a good partner. It sounds like you are!
OP
You’re right, he didn’t go to the grad program after all. He did love Small City B. He’s from City A but often feels like a fish out of water here. Before we moved, he was in what’s considered a very good, very City A-type job but it made him absolutely miserable. He was kind of experiencing then what I’m experiencing now — he felt like all his friends were miles out ahead of him but he wasn’t able to get his head above water at his job (so, unlike me, he had a job he was proud of, but he was really struggling with it because it made him miserable). He’s a lawyer, too, and I think all lawyers at some point want to say EFF IT ALL and go live in a cabin. This was kind of that moment for him. He was so miserable, I couldn’t really ask him to stay in City A, and there were a lot of really appealing things about Small City B (it’s a very popular place for people to want to move to — hence the terrible job market).
He’s been amazingly supportive, both here and in B. I’ve never said, however, “I wish we’d never moved to Small City B.” I feel that way sometimes, but looking back, I don’t see how we could have not gone. He had his heart set on it and he hadn’t really lived away from City A his whole life, while I’ve lived all over the country and overseas. If we hadn’t gone, he’d have felt trapped. Also, I think people in City A also all go through an EFF IT ALL I’M LIVING IN A CABIN moment, too. It’s that kind of city that draws really high achievers who then immediately burn themselves out. So part of me thinks it was something we had to do. He’s said once or twice “maybe I shouldn’t have asked you to go to Small City B.” But we know it was ultimately something we had to do. I just wish it hadn’t been.
Susedna
How long was that grad program? (It’s a hypothetical now, given that he didn’t do it, ultimately.)
But, I was just thinking about your comment: “I don’t see how we could have not gone.”
I do– although it’d have been had. To go long-distance for a year, to see whether City B was all that it was cracked up to be.
If he hated being a lawyer while in City A, what job did he do while living in City B?
I ask because if the problem is the law job (for him), then you two will keep running into that problem for as long as he’s looking at law jobs. I’d hate for you guys to get settled and for your career to get back where you want it to be, and then for him to have another one of these crisis, precipitating another such move.
AIMS
Or to say, okay, let’s go but only if I can find a job there first.
OP
He started his own tech company while we were there. That didn’t work out, but then he started another tech/law company once we got up here and that’s getting traction. He definitely doesn’t ever want to be a lawyer ever again.
Susedna
@ OP
That’s awesome. So glad things are working out for your DH’s tech/law company. Now here’s hoping you find that dream job. Good luck to you both and do keep us posted. :-)
KLG
I know this is not helpful or relative but I really really loved this line:
“I think all lawyers at some point want to say EFF IT ALL and go live in a cabin.”
I totally think that is true.
OP
:)
MacAtty
I did exactly this and have never been happier!
anonynony
I am also in a similar position. I had a great job, but my fiance couldn’t find anything where I was located. He got a great job in another state. I left my job, couldn’t find anything in my field, and decided to go to law school. Fast forward five years and I’m stuck at a job I hate because it’s the only one I can get. I have an associate title, but most of the work I do is secretarial. That doesn’t stop the micromanaging owner from constantly blaming me for everything despite the fact that she has completely abrogated her cases to me but not the authority to actually send anything out, talk to the client, or talk to opposing counsel. I spend every single day on the verge of tears because of how hopeless my life is right now.
AnnonFoo
This is actually one of my biggest fears that made me let go of two very promising relationships. I am definitely one of those people who derive a lot of self worth and meaning in life from their career achievements so I was just not ready to move to a different state for my SO where my career options would be quite limited (but very good for him). I was sure the regret would cause too much bitterness for me to really enjoy the relationship.
Oh well, years later I am still single but free and ready to move where ever the next best opportunity arises. Still conflicted on some days if I made the right decision.
anon
I’m so sorry for what you are going through, and I really hope you can let go of some of the shame you are feeling. It sounds like you might need some counseling to readjust your perspective on a lot of this. The way you and your husband are constantly comparing your lives to your friends isn’t healthy. Your sense of worth is totally tied up in your career, and that is why you are feeling so miserable. This might be a good opportunity to free yourself from that burden as much as possible without losing your underlying drive or ambition.
FIRE! sale
Fire drill at work today. I’m on the 9th floor of 10, and the stairwells were so clogged, it took a full twelve minutes for us to even get onto the 9th floor stair landing. *Face palm*
Jill
It amazes me how bad people are at fire drills, and how much people mill around and clog the stairwell. Didn’t everyone do this in elementary school? It’s not hard.
Susedna
Does your company have a fire marshall? It might not be a bad idea to suggest one (and be ready to do it if there are no volunteers for the role).
Mine does, with mixed results. But at least there’s something shepherding (read: verbally prodding people to move along and not linger).
Of course, it depends on whether your company actually cares. Sure, they’d might be hit with some liability if you all burn to a crisp because nobody knew how to handle walking down stairs quickly and in an orderly manner….
…but they might have hired actuaries telling them that the odds are very low, so that they should just do the fire drills willynilly as a formality, check the box and move on. It’s been known to happen.
Anonymous
Are you in DC? We had a fire drill today too!
Godzilla
Your office is not in NYC, is it? I feel like we have our drills down to the second.
Anon because it will out me easily
Having a terrible day. Yesterday was worse. There were mass layoffs (not me) (see, now you know where I work) but the mood here is terrible. Horrible fighting with my SO over the last few days. My BFF is traveling for work and my other friends are in the “my boyfriend is my life” phase and can’t/won’t make plans without them (which includes missing important events in MY life). I am not Godzilla but I WANT TO RAWR EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!
And, because of yesterday – can’t leave early, can’t escape. In such a funk a cupcake won’t even cheer me up. Must. get. through. day.
SunnyD
I’m so sorry! I’ve wondered whether women on this site are experiencing pain from the layoffs. I’m glad you still have your job, but can imagine how stressful it must be. And if there are ladies who suffered from the layoffs, our thoughts are with you.
AIMS
I was wondering if we were going to talk about the layoffs here. Terrible! Made me flashback to 2008-09 and the constant X Firm Fires Y People headlines. I’m sorry but hang in there – and be glad you still have your job. And if anyone reading this lost theirs, my thoughts are with you.
What tends to help me get through the “it’s all falling down at once” periods is just channeling my inner Scarlet O’Hara, and taking it all one day at a time, one thing at a time. I just take a deep breath and say to myself “can’t think about X (e.g., boyfriend) now, will deal with it tomorrow, now going to just focus on work (or whatever you need to focus on).” It doesn’t always work perfectly, but it keeps me from feeling paralyzed by everything happening all at once. That and picturing a reward at the end of the day – a cupcake might not help, but maybe you could get some really good sushi for dinner or treat yourself to a nice massage later.
anon too
I’m here too! Was not let go, thankfully, but my secretary was :( Hang in there.
Godzilla
Hugs and rawrs!
Anon for this
Ugh, I’m not at that firm, but my firm just did a layoff shedding 10% of all the employees, and really, it’s more like 15% since we cut out a ton of developers and moved a bunch of into positions they didn’t want and will quit in 2 months. MAKES MY LIFE LIVING HELL when I have important things to get done, and these people are no longer on the payroll. Ugh.
NOLA
Ugh. Today is worse than yesterday. Everybody needs me to solve their problems. I want to run away screaming.
eek
I’m so sorry. Time to hit the drive-thru liquor? Hugs to you!
NOLA
Unfortunately, liquor hasn’t been agreeing with me so I’ve stopped drinking. We’ll see.
Susedna
I wish there was someone who could act as a triage person for you.
“If it’s truly an emergency, you will be seen by NOLA.”
“If it’s the equivalent of a scraped knee, go sit in the corner and wait till later. You won’t die.”
NOLA
Unfortunately, it’s mainly someone who shall remain nameless who asks me questions incessantly and puts me on agendas to talk about things because he is clueless. The other stuff is all people who’ve been waiting to ask me about things. I think I freaked out one person because I told her that she needed to stop trying to multitask while she talked to me because I needed to be able to concentrate on the conversation. My sweet SO is coming in this afternoon and I’m sure he’ll drag me away from all of this.
Deep End
Oh NOLA, sending lots of hugs. I plan to get into your town Monday, 7/1. Let me know if you need anything, including just to sit in a cafe and decompress. I’ll be around all week.
NOLA
Hey – great to hear from you! Please let me know if there is anything I can help with. I’d love to – really. Run errands, pick things up, whatever. I had planned already to take the week off and, aside from one meeting, I will. Helping with your wedding will take my mind off of my troubles. The only thing I have planned is adding a new shelving unit to my spare spare bedroom to shelve (more) shoes and get my purses up off of the floor.
zora
UGH! are you sure there’s no way you can tell him at least 30% of the time that you can’t do that for him right now, you are busy??? Srsly, it is NOT your job to do his job for him. And I know you’re super responsible like me so you feel like you have to do it, but you have the right to close your door at least half of the day and just focus on your own work. ;oP
anyway, I am sending you hugs, and I am sending my dragons to deal with you know who. :o(
dating in silicon valley?
Hi ladies, I’ve lurked for a while here and now would like to request your advice. I’ve been in SV for the past couple of years and think I want to start dating again (I’ve been out of the game for 3+ years). Outside of online dating, any recs on where to start meeting guys in SV? I don’t really have a “type” per se, but would prefer someone in their late 20’s/early 30’s with a good job (engineer, etc.) who has similar financial values (frugal, doesn’t like to go into debt, understands the value of a dollar, etc.). It doesn’t help that I’m probably the most introverted person ever, so any suggestions would be most appreciated!
SunnyD
I’m not in Silicon Valley so I can’t help you there. However, I believe I too hold the title for the most introverted person ever and, like you, finally decided to get back into the dating scene. I went the online route and it was quite successful (there may be bad dates when you wish you could just be home reading, but bad dates do make good stories). I’ve been dating a guy I met online for about eight months and it was so much easier to find him online than finding someone any other way I’d ever tried. He also tends toward the introverted side of the spectrum, although not nearly to the degree I do, so I’m not sure we ever would have met any other way.
Good luck!
bowie
Have you looked at meetup.com? Pick a couple activities you enjoy and meet others who enjoy same. Since you are shy/introvert this could help conversation flow more easily. You can talk about the activity, and ease into dating by putting yourselfvin friendly situations.
I have met a couple new friends this way, and like that I can survey the situation and assess the personalities around me during the first part of the event and get a feel for who I thinkvi will click with, you know?
Maybe you meet someone to date, and maybe you meet someone whose best friend/sibling/cowirker is a potential match and make new acquaintences/friends tovdo your favired activuty with to boot!
k-padi
Good luck dating in the SV. Really, I know what you are going through. I did ALOT of online dating in SV.
The guys I met while online dating but not via online dating are the ones I seriously dated. Met one at my crossfit gym, met the current guy via a law school classmate. Finding a good guy out here is all about connections–just like finding a job. Just like you would tell your connections that you are looking for a new job, tell them you are looking for a boyfriend.
Join organizations and activities–gyms, meet-up groups, churches, Junior League (or some service organization), etc. My friends and I debate whether it’s helpful to have a leadership role in an organization–you get more exposure within the group but it seems to intimidate some men.
SFBayA
I second what kpadi said – network is important here, especially if you can hook into FB/Google/Stanford GSB/Sand Hill through someone. There’s a ton of men with good jobs down here, some of whom are indeed single. I’m in Junior League and have met a ton of great women through it. Everyone in JL knows someone (male or female) who’s single, so the JL ladies are joking about throwing a party with all our single friends to see who clicks. Where are you in the valley? if you’re more PA, I’d be happy to help, and I imagine the awesome kpadi would be willing to help if you’re more SJ.
PS kpadi and zora we gotta plan a Bay Area meetup this summer. It’s been too long for me.
ExcelNinja
I couldn’t make it to the last Bay Area MU, I’d love to attend the next one! I’m new-ish to the area so it’d be great to meet some peeps from thissite.
k-padi
Yeah, lets do a meet-up. June was/is pretty insane for me so no meet-up. How does July look? Any preference as to East Bay, South Bay, or SF? Any location/activity requests?
I’m thinking beer garden. There’s a new one in Mountain View near Castro. Takers?
SFBayA
Yep, I’ve been to that place. Fun, and walkable from Caltrain. I vote SF or Peninsula because that’s what’s most convenient for me ;). East Bay is a bit of a schlep (sorry zora).
Mary Ann Singleton
I’d like to finally make it to one of these meet-ups too. July is good for me.
ExcelNinja
May I suggest the 5th/6th, or 26th/27th?
mama of 2
Is there an email address? I’d like to join in on the next Bay Area meet up (just moved from NY to SF fairly recently).
k-padi
yep. email me at karenpadi at hot mail dot com
Samantha
Just saw this. I love that beer garden! Totally up for it.
Nordies Lover
Is it bad that I’m wondering if you would be a good match for my brother? Ha. He moved to SV after college and met a ton of people through frisbee golf, kick ball league, and whatever other activities/hobbies that he would find fun, regardless of who he was meeting (although he definitely met a couple girlfriends that way). In general, I that approach is good for meeting potential soul mates. That is, find a hobby or activity that involves interacting with people–something that interests you, even though you might never do it but for trying to meet people. It might take you out of your comfort zone, but I think that’s a good thing. (And, let’s face it, dating is just kind of awkwardly uncomfortable anyway.)
anon
ladies who went to law school with small children still at home:
Did you summer in the same city you live in? What if the city you want to practice is different than where you are currently living? Do you summer at a firm where you want to live? What about the kids?
Nonny
I didn’t do this, but one of our summer students did a couple of years ago and I can comment on how it worked for her.
Our summer student was a single mom (of a baby). She stayed in the same city, which also happened to be the city her parents lived in, so she relied primarily on her mom for childcare. Because of this arrangement, she was able to be flexible with her childcare needs and could stay late, come in early, etc., seamlessly. In fact, she did this so well that I didn’t even know she was a single mom reliant on childcare until the summer was almost over. I was completely shocked – she was able to hold up her end exactly the same as any other summer student. Needless to say, she got hired back the following year.
My takeaway from this was that it is definitely possible to do, and do well, but the trick is really having access to flexible childcare. Whether that is your husband, family, or a paid childcare provider doesn’t matter so much, as long as it means you can focus on your responsibilities at work and not worry about having to get home at a specific time – because the life of a summer student or articled student/first year is highly unpredictable. I think this would be easier to do in a city that you are familiar with, and possibly a city where you have close family members (depending on your family, I guess).
Anon
I worked at a firm that was about an hour away. (I live in a suburb that is great for raising kids, but not so great for lawyer jobs.) During those summers, my child went to a combination of camps, time with grandma, and my husband adjusted his schedule to be home more. It was stressful, but we made it work. I worked in that city after I graduated as well, and the commute was tough. I eventually was able to move to an office closer to home (firm opened a satellite office and once I had some experience I moved over. Still go to old city for meetings occasionally).
Anonymous
I do not understand my boss’s complete lack of understanding as to how PowerPoint works! It’s making me lose respect for him.
Susedna
Any way to turn this into something positive instead?
Like, making it a niche skill that you have that makes you more valuable to your boss?
If you become your boss’ go-to person for PowerPoint, even if it’s annoying, it may make the boss think of you as indispensible. Which would be nice.
Anonymous
Hmm that’s a good point. I did teach him a ‘trick’ the other day. His lack of knowledge about something he uses fairly regularly just slows things down.
CKB
Uh oh. I’m kind if like your boss. I can do tons in Excel, lots in Word, but I’m clueless about PowerPoint. I really need to find some time and figure it out.
Wildkitten
Just got a job offer – so thrilled. I still need to negotiate the specifics, but what should I do to personally prepare before I start (presumably in 2 weeks)? Grocery shopping, dry cleaning, house cleaning… extra sleep… Any tips from the hive?
Leslie Knope
Congratulations! How about ob/gyn visit, eye exam, dental cleaning, car emissions inspection, etc?
MJ
If your insurance is with your new job, I would wait for Dr’s appts until they are covered.
Wildkitten
Yes! I am getting ALL of those as soon as my insurance kicks in.
NewGrad
I’m a new law graduate and will be starting a job in October (I’m studying for the bar now). I’m 25 and I’ve been on my parents’ health insurance while in law school. But I’m turning 26 in July, and so there will be 2-3 months where I don’t have any health insurance before I get new insurance with my job. Any suggestions on what to do?
zora
There is ‘short-term’ insurance for things just like this. It often doesn’t cover very much in the way of preventative care, but it will cover major medical in case something catastrophic happens. I was able to sign up for a 3 month temporary insurance through my parents’ All State agent several years ago, so you might see what companies your parents are with that might have this as a possible add on, or if you can go through their insurance agency, or even get a short-term individual plan on their existing health care plan. There are also online insurance systems, like ehealthinsurance dot com which is pretty decent, too. Depending on your age, health, you might be paying 150-200/month for a very basic major medical plan. As long as you don’t have 2 or more pre-existing conditions that is, which is a whole other problem.
Also, depending on your state, there might be a low-income exchange or medical pool you can get into, considering your current lack of income. In Oregon, for example, there is a state-run high-risk medical pool that I was able to get 6 months of insurance from when I was unemployed and had pre-existing conditions so was ineligible for other insurance. So, check out your state’s services first, and then check iwth your parents to see if they can help you get a short-term health insurance.
Wildkitten
I got that short term insurance from my law school. It wasn’t cheap, and it doesn’t cover preventative care, but it’ll make sure you don’t have to declare bankruptcy if you need to use the emergency room in the next 5 months.