Coffee Break: Recruit Slingback Pumps
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I haven’t swung by Easy Spirit in a while, but they do have cute shoes from time to time – and I really like this strappy heel!
The heels come in 9 mostly neutral colors, but these red patent heels (pictured) and the silver ones are on sale, down to $49 from $99.
(There’s also a nice tortoiseshell brown that I could see being great for the fall since brown is so trendy right now – but those are full price.)
I primarily think of East Spirit as a comfort brand, and these heels benefit from that – there’s arch support and a cushioned insole.
The shoes come in sizes 5-12, in regular and wide sizes (in some colors), for $49-$99.
{related: check out our Guide to Comfortable Heels!}
Hunting for more strappy heels? These are some of our favorites:
As of 2025, these are our latest favorite strappy heels for work — also check the brands J.Crew, Valentino, and Jennifer Chamandi for strappy pumps. If you’re looking for strappy commuting shoes with heels to maintain a hem length, we recommend Dansko, Eileen Fisher, or FLY London.
Sales of note for 2/7/25:
- Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
- Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
- Boden – 15% off new season styles
- Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
- J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
- Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+
What blogs, instagram accounts, podcasts, sub stacks, etc. do you all follow for fashion? In a bit of a rut and looking for inspiration.
Lean more east coast preppy for casual and polished minimalist for professional (e.g., black ankle length pants, black/printed silk top, simple belt, and flats; not sure what else to call that), but open to anything.
Some blogs I follow:
Capitol Hill Style
Extra Petite
Jo-Lynne Shane
Pumps and Push Ups
Putting Me Together
Wardrobe Oxygen
You Look Fab
Why isn’t Corporette on the list? It is my go-to website almost every day, when I have an interest, I always look to see what Kat, Kate and the others here have to say on fashion; they are my personal fashionistas, supplementing what I get from my personal shopper @ Nordstrom! YAY!!!!!
you’d love 9 to 5 chic – west coast but very professional minimalist
memorandum – super preppy/WASP
maybe sarah patrick?
Memorandum is soooooo cringe
I don’t actively follow anything, but sometimes read The Vivienne files, Putting me Together, or Collective Gen’s wardrobe rehab.
Girl of A Certain Age (is a substack now, most content free) lots of shopping links (by the woman behind Lucky Magazine)
Blogs:
Blue Collar Red Lipstick – now she’s doing unique vintage and second hand (used to be basic corporette style)
PhD in Clothes – professional and fairly minimalist
YouTb:
Melissa Murrell personal styling – styling advice for different body shapes
Justine Leconte – fashion analysis
Leena Norms – second hand, fun and quirky milennial
I just started following thenewyorkstylist on Insta and she fits in the category you describe. I would wear most things she posts.
Does anyone know where to find platinum (not plated) earrings that don’t have diamonds? Looking for huggies specifically, without the bling of diamonds or the tarnish of silver.
These look nice: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1343739411/solid-platinum-pt950-huggie-hoop?gpla=1&gao=1&
I didn’t think to check Etsy, thank you!
I have platinum rings but prefer white gold for most jewelry. It is lighter in color and doesn’t get as many dings and dents.
Does the rhodium plating eventually wear off though? That’s my concern with white gold.
White gold shouldn’t be plated. It’s 14k gold, with the remaining 10 carats a different mix of metals to make it white (instead of the normal yellow). Platinum jewelry should be 100% platinum. It shouldn’t scratch or ding, as it’s harder than gold.
Those of you with shoulder length hair, what do you all do with your hair at night so it’s not in your face? I’ve been using claw clips forever, but am wondering if this is harming my hair and I should be doing something else. I definitely need my hair out of my face though!!
Scrunchies. I like silk ones
I can’t stand hair in my face or on my neck when i sleep so i use a silk bonnet/sleeping cap. It seriously cuts down on frizz. I use the silke london brand but i know there tons of options out there. They also have silk hair ties and head bands.
ooh, thank you for recommending silke – i’ve been hunting for a silk not satin sleep bonnet but couldn’t find one!
I must have cowlicks or hair used to going behind my ears because it is never in my face as I sleep. Only at the beach where the baby hairs fly all over and tickle my forehead and tangle.
I don’t like anything elastic because of hair breakage, and I also don’t like the line they leave. Claw clips bother me when I’m sleeping and pull on my hair. So what I actually do is twist my hair into a ponytail shape (like a cyclone) and when I lay down, I kind of make sure it’s above me. It usually stays out of my face for most of the night if I go to bed like that. I may not be a restless sleeper though. My husband tells me I sleep like a (snoring) log.
My hair is curly, but I use a buff at night. I got one like you wear around your neck camping, pull it up over my hair and knot the top at night. I look like Marge Simpson, but it keeps my curls looking good for the next day, my hair doesn’t tangle, and it stays out of my face.
I don’t do anything! I just brush it backwards and it stays there. I move around during the night but have never been woken up with hair in my face.
My claw clips don’t hurt my hair at all! Is your hair getting stuck in the hinge or something? I don’t wear them to bed though, so that may different. For actually sleeping, I will use the telephone cord style bands.
Half-ass French braid with a scrunchie. I do the braid because it helps control shorter hairs and doesn’t make a big wad at the back of my head to throw my neck out of kilter.
Sorry for the thread hijack but I’m going to an IT corporate awards event at a sports bar in the evening and I’m just wondering what the heck to wear. I was thinking nice jeans, a tee, and a blazer with sneakers. Suggestions? I guess I need to find out the expected dress code.
If it is an annual event, i always check out linkedIn/other social media to look at prior year attendees. I probably would have defaulted to outfit you were already thinking, or if it’s right after work i just would wear normal work attire, maybe switching shoes as appropriate.
Great suggestions, thanks! I work remotely so I never wear normal work attire – lol.
What do you do when feeling heavily depressed or anxious at work? I’m the primary caregiver to my young kids and work 45 hours a week. Partner travels often for their job. I don’t feel depressed until I try to focus at work and then it hits me how unfocused and unhappy I feel. I am left squandering the work day and getting more stressed about work the next day. Rinse and repeat. How to stop the cycle? I have no outlets.
I’m sorry but rather than outsourcing creative ideas from a board full of women, you need to go talk to your partner. We cannot solve this for you. Your spouse has to help you. I’m sick of seeing women try to problem solve an absent parent.
Sorry but +1.
She came here looking for help, not prissy impatient judgement from the likes of you. You do realize you’re not obligated to respond to each and every post you see here? If you don’t have something helpful to contribute, just keep scrolling. If you’re one of the spectacularly successful and high powered women who brags about how much agency they have at their job to hire and fire people (p.s. – LOL) – you should have plenty of actual work to do, and shouldn’t have time to waste posting responses like this. FFS
Um what? None of what you guessed is correct, lol.
This was an unnecessarily hostile response – and “prissy”? How old are you. Grow up.
There is absolutely nothing in this post to suggest that the OP’s spouse’s job is something they have done “to” her or that she disagrees with the decision to take/keep a job that requires considerable travel. There is also nothing to indicate that her inability to focus at work is because of said partner’s job. I say this because it happens all the time (and has happened to me) that people project their own issues onto a poster. When it happened to me it was both hilariously wrong and incredibly frustrating.
OP – I found that scheduling bursts of activity with planned breaks helped me in similar circumstances. For example, I finished the three letters I needed to write and now am spending my 10 minute break here. But as someone noted below, it would be helpful to know why you are so unhappy at work. What kinds of thoughts are you having? Would more childcare help, even if it is just an hour a day, three times a week so you can do something for you? Are you a member of any groups that have childcare options? (Honestly for years I went to church because they had activities for children on-site and I could take a break.)
She describes herself as the primary caregiver. She’s burnt out. That’s a red flag.
Everyone can keep journaling and taking anti-depressants, or OR, maybe their partner can step up.
I agree that journaling and anti-depressants aren’t the answer, but I also think it’s unreasonable to expect a traveling spouse to do much parenting. What OP needs is hired help, lots of it. If they can’t afford it then they need to re-evaluate the travel-heavy job.
I am trying to figure out how the partner who travels should change the diaper when they are in another state?????? Many people HAVE TO TRAVEL FOR WORK TO PAY THE BILLS. M-kay?
I think the last sentence is the main problem. You need a non-work, non-family outlet. Therapy, friends, exercise, a hobby…there are lots of options, but you need to find something.
Can you be more specific? What’s the cause of the anxiety and depression? Is it spouse related? Kids? Burnout? Or job?
In a work rut (burned out and bored) and fantasizing about who I was before I had kids.
How old are your kids? Parenting toddlers is a slog, but I found that once my youngest was 4 I had a lot more time for myself to reclaim pre-kid hobbies. Drop-off play dates and activities are a game changer. I’ve also found a kid free vacation goes a long way towards reducing burnout. If you don’t have a third party to watch your kids, go solo or with a girlfriend.
Get help! Mother helper or sitter to help dinner/bedtime
When I’m depressed I talk to my doctor and take meds
Is it really the work stuff that has you anxious or is it home stuff? If it’s truly just work stuff, i get in that mode sometimes. What helps me.. I switch up my task management style.. go from paper to digital (onenote) or start using a white board checklist. Just a change helps me because i have to start from scratch on a current action list. I identify 3 main priorities for the month, and then each monday identify 3 main goals for week, with a daily to-do list aligned. I review my calendar, and start time blocking for each goal on the calendar. I use the pomodoro method to map out the time blocks on my calendar. On my to-do lists, i start documenting the smaller build up actions so i have more to cross off. I also take time to review my resume, annual tracker of accomplishments feedback. I schedule more informal chats, like a mentoring/re-connection tag-up with people i like but haven’t connected with in a while.
how old are your kids? there are times they need you more – when my eldest got to be around 8 or 9 he needed a lot less help/attention.
in general though i think you really have to a) get childcare help / mother’s helper for evenings and b) carve out some time or activities that are just for you even if they’re small. meditate for 5 minutes after dropping the kids off, or get a 30-minute workout in. also focus on sleep – easier said than done but more lseep really does help. (also: get your vitamin D levels checked, whenever I get like this they are invariably low.)
Talk to your doctor about depression and anxiety. Don’t try to fight yourself out of it. If it is interfering with your ability to live your life, you need help.
Find an outlet or time to yourself! My YMCA includes 2 hours of childcare per day. If I am solo with the kids, we go there. The kids like to play and I like to read, soak in the hot tub, work out, etc. ask a friend to meet you there.
Call old friends after the kids go to bed. If you have a local friend, invite them over. My child free friends hang out at my place at 8pm, no problem.
I also feel like this when I get burned out. The only thing that helps is rest and exercise. With a lot of therapy, I’ve learned that when I’m having a really awful day for productivity, it’s often better to just leave and do something that I find relaxing and restorative, rather than just stare into space and browse the internet at my desk. I usually come back the next day much more focused and productive.
I feel like this sometimes when I don’t have time to myself. I just go from work to being on call to work to sleep to back to work. What helps me break the cycle is to get help so I have some time where I’m not responsible to anyone. If your partner can’t or won’t do that get a babysitter. A couple evenings a week for a month does it for me (the first couple it feels so weird I need to push past it). Also I’m like this when I don’t like the work I’m doing. Ymmv. Good luck!
1. Set a timer for 10 minutes – just 10! and get as much done in those 10 minutes as you can. Take a break. Rinse and repeat.
2. Get help – as listed above, a nanny or babysitter to shoulder some of the parenting load.
3. Once you do #2, take some of that extra time to something for yourself – a workout, a walk, a half-hour with a book and cocktail/mocktail, a phone call with a friend. Don’t spend it all cleaning or doing home admin.
4. Talk to your spouse about their travel. Is this a temporary or indefinite thing? Would they be willing to look for a different role that allows them to be home more?
Good luck, I hope you start feeling better soon.
My quality of life vastly improved when I started hiring a babysitter to pick my kids up after school so I could have some non-work free time. Most days, this arrangement means I have some leeway on what time I leave work, and I feel less stressed for that, but it also allows me some freedom to exercise or see a friend for dinner every once in a while. I make sure that the time I do spend with me kids in the evening and on the weekends is quality time, so I do not feel bad about taking some time for myself. I also have a house cleaner, and someone who does our laundry, and I rarely cook (buy healthy pre-made meals). I realize not everyone can throw money at it like this, but if you can, it is worth it.
Look for a new job. Cut back on your hours or take some leave until then.
If your partner is traveling they need to organize that their contribution is covered while they are gone. Its lovely that they get to travel but that doesn’t mean all of their responsibilities fall on your shoulders. I am now divorced and I would suggest you do couples therapy to work through this. Travel only works when you have no children or a fully supported partner so you are pulling on both work and home fronts together.
As an idea of what I needed, at a minimum you should have a weekly cleaner, meal service and childcare. Personally what works best for me in an au pair to help with the children and a housekeeper for food, errands and household coordination. I have 3 children who are all a combination of ASD & ADD or dyslexia & ADD, so more support is needed. If your partner isn’t bringing in enough to provide this support they need to either find a way to make the money or adjust their career so they can help out.
Yes to the au pair. My spouse travels a bit but generally has erratic hours and has just been so helpful to my mental state to consistently have a second adult available and be able to do things like exercise class after work, go to a happy hour etc. It is $$ but less than we expected once factoring in not paying for aftercare,camps, ordering out as much.
Here is a retirement math problem. Older people in my family are having a binary distribution of aging: either barely hitting 80 and dying suddenly or hitting mid-90s and still slowly declining at home (nursing home for max 3 months). How to you save for that sort of math? Rely on no-debt and social security for maybe hitting 90? Add some small annuity so that you have some stream of $ that lasts as long as you do (but not all — if I die closer to 80, I wouldn’t want to waste that $ (I do have kids who will be ~40 when I am 80). I have a 401k that I max out and savings outside of that, but when people lived to 90, their life math was different (they all benefitted from government pensions of the sort that doesn’t exist generally and specifically doesn’t exist for me).
No one has any idea how long they’ll live. Your family history isn’t that relevant (it’s just one of many, many factors), so I think it’s almost better you don’t have a clear pattern in your family because that might give you a false sense of security.
To the money question, I save as much as I can while enjoying my life to a reasonable degree. I don’t know if it will be enough. My grandmother retired with millions but ended up being supported by her children at the very end because she lived with dementia for over 10 years and needed 24/7 care. Very few people can afford that amount of that kind of care. I try to save responsibly but am not going to live like a pauper for decades just to have the chance of paying for that kind of care.
I understand your question, but the best you can do is exactly what you’re doing. Save as much as you can. You might die early with some in the bank. You might not. No one knows when and how they’ll go, so the best you can do is the best you can do. It’s stressful feeling out of control in that way, but I don’t see any other options.
Your two scenarios, as you described are either 1) dying with too much money or 2) outliving your retirement fund. The second is very clearly the worse of the two evils, and with advances in health care (depending on your own individual circumstances), it seems likely that many people will live longer not shorter lives. So, save for the age 95 scenario to the extent you can through the vehicles you are able to access: 401k, IRAs, etc. I don’t think I’ll go the annuity route myself, because I think I’d rather have control of the principal in my savings vehicles, but YMMV. It’s a tough calculation for everyone retiring without substantial pensions, which of course is the majority these days.
I get that the mantra when you’re working is to SAVE but IDK that there a good roadmap for what to do when you have to take required minimum distributions and could outlive your $. Buy annuitiies with them? Keep that in cash just in case? Work PT as a Walmart greeter? I know there are rules about what you should withdraw to be conservative, but I do want to travel early on while I am able to and yet leaving all $ in the market is not ideal, so how to rebalance for withdrawals and weathering 20+ years where there may be recessions and market crashes would be helpful than just being told to save. I can save. IDK how to “withdraw with confidence” and yet I will need to learn that at some point.
I mean financial advisors literally do exist.
The ones I’ve met IRL seem to want to sell you investment products for a fee that you could just as e adult buy fee free. IDK that tree guys deal well with the retirement part of life or how you’d even vet that. Does a CFA cover this? Or is there some other certification to look for?
CFAs do not cover this unless the curriculum has changed
You want a CFP (certified financial planner). Also, long term care insurance.
NAPFA will help you find a fee-only, fiduciary financial planner. Once ours had looked at our financial documents, and helped get a plan in place, he referred us to an estate planning attorney. I read the Bogleheads forums, so I asked a lot of questions there and used the members for some reality checks as we implemented plans.
These last two bits of info are helpful — thank you!
I feel like I’ll never be able to save enough to retire according to all the calculators. It just isn’t feasible. So I don’t know what I’ll do.
Yeah my plan for retirement is “die fighting my neighbor for water in 2054”
I looked at all the calculators, then chose a number that I thought was reasonable but the calculators said was too low and we’re going with it. Some things I’ll have to figure out later.
I am SAVING but I also want to save for life things like buying a house. And it just feels like there are too many things that could change for a calculator to tell me how my life will be in 30+ years
I feel like we’ve elongated our lives but we haven’t figured out how to pay for the cost of being old and debilitated. My dad is 91 and requires full time care. I am the sole relief for the caregiver because he can’t afford to have two caregivers, (he is paying $2,100 per week for the caregiver). So I am spending 20 hours a week taking care of my dad in addition to my full time job and high school kids. It’s. too. much. I don’t know the answer to the retirement math problem, but I am concerned that our aging population is contributing to an impending financial crisis.
He at least has a kid for this. More and more people do t have children, so I guess people will have to do without? “Not dying” during the time you have no care seems like a bad but likely option.
I’m so sorry, no financial suggestions, just support and sympathy. It’s so hard when you’re the sandwich generation. My mom required full time care for the last several years of her life and it was so hard. My siblings and I are still not in a great place with each other as part of the fallout of that.
hot take that will probably be unpopular: isn’t that what medicaid/medicare is for? i feel like i know people who have exhausted their retirement savings but (i thought) the government was picking up the bill for them to be in nursing homes. maybe not good ones, but still. i keep reading about how the vast majority of americans have barely anything saved for retirement so whatever you have is going to be better than most people. isn’t this why a lot of rich seniors start giving away money hopefully before the lookback period begins?
(see: the median retirement savings for all working age households is $95,776… adjusted for age the average is estimated to be $255,200 at retirement. – https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewrosen/2023/03/02/how-your-retirement-savings-compare-to-the-national-average/?sh=3bf207b36b2a)
Medicare (for those 65 and over): yes.
Medicaid (for those with disabilities or who are poor): depends on your state/good luck with that. See link in reply to avoid moderation.
It’s the opposite. Medicare doesn’t cover extended nursing care. It’s intended to cover short term situations like surgical recovery but not when you get dementia and need assisted living for years.
Medicaid should apply if you spend down all your assets, but the home you end up in won’t be great. So yes it’s an option but it’s not crazy for affluent people to want better.
I think the point was that many states have made it impossible for people who need Medicaid to access it (while recognizing that this is health insurance, not long term care insurance).
But she said Medicare will cover this for people 65+, which it won’t.
https://www.healthinsurance.org/medicaid/
Medicare, the health insurance program for almost all people over 65, doesn’t cover long-term care. Nursing home coverage is limited to rehab for a specific problem/hospitalization for a limited amount of time.
Medicaid (at least where I am) covers nursing home care for people who need that really high level of care on an ongoing basis and are basically destitute. I don’t know the quality of the nursing homes covered or how hard it is to get a spot. I also don’t know what happens to very poor people in my state who need some help, but don’t qualify for nursing home-level help. I’ve heard of some programs, but I don’t know how available they are.
As far as I know, the option for middle class people who need nursing home care for an extended period of time is spend everything they have and then be destitute enough to qualify for Medicaid.
+1 to all this
Nursing home is 90 days after a hospitilization. After that, Medicare doesn’t pay. The nursing home knows you won’t be able to pay their rack rate (they would love it if you could, though) so they make every effort to “cure” you by 90 days and then boot you out immediately after.
Neither Medicare nor Medicaid are the answer.
And yet older people in the US who need 24/7 care overwhelming rely on Medicaid. Realistically speaking, that is the solution for most people who end up needing that type of care on a long-term basis.
Maybe you can remove the mental block of ‘wasting’ money if you die younger. Make a proper estate plan. Think about who you would like to benefit from your assets. Think about the people in your life right now. I’m also thinking about causes that are important to me but I feel like I have to choose between donating meaningfully and funding my own retirement. Now if you do go with lots of money left, it’s not wasted.
Look into QLACs.
This is why you buy a house. If you deplete your savings and need to move into a home, you sell the house and use the equity. And save enough to overshoot with this as the backstop.
Unless you live in the Bay Area and your house is worth $5M, it may not be enough.
Even then it’s not enough. My dad is in residential hospice right now, dealing with complications from a Covid infection last fall. He is bleeding money. Even with long-term care, even with over 1M currently remaining at age 94. If he exhausts all the money then my mom with dementia will need to go on Medicaid. The American medical system is so very, very sick.
Where are the best places to meet romantic partners that aren’t dating apps? I’m in such a rut I’m willing to try anything!
House of worship if applicable. Try different services, groups, events
Maybe depends where you live and age, but our Reform temple in a college town has NO single guys between the ages of 18 and 40, and only a handful of single women. Sports/clubs and bars would be way better places to meet single 20- and 30-somethings here.
I think it def depends, although at least for Christians, I’ve never seen a church with many single straight men. There are a lot of single men at my current church (SEUS), and many have met their partners here, but they’re all gay.
Evangelical churches will have more young singles, but those men are likely not the sort of partner OP is seeking. In mainline Christian denominations people seem to quit attending church after high school and don’t return until they are getting married or having kids.
Jewish Community Center
That’s a gym or community center, not a house of worship though. JCCs often aren’t even very religious. My husband did preschool at one and only maybe 20% of the kids were Jewish.
True. It’s where I (Jewish) met my husband (Jewish).
Yeah there is not a single straight man between the ages of 20 and 60 at my Episcopalian church.
Pottery class, climbing gym, fundraising events, friends of friends, volunteering for a campaign, depending on where you live I know people who have met people at young professionals networking events
The climbing gym will have the best odds but many of those guys will be kind of bro-y.
Work rec leagues or happy hours
i know a couple who met volunteering for a political campaign
Male or female partners? I feel like the answers will differ. For men, recreational sports (running group, triathlon club, etc.) are where I met most of my boyfriends. For women, I’d try volunteer service activities and progressive houses of worship.
For women/queer/NB folks – a beginner pottery class.
talk to everyone, everywhere – you really can’t be an introvert if you’re hunting. i met a guy in the check-in line at the airport once; i know a friend met someone while waiting to cross the street (long street light).
This! You can meet people anywhere. Definitely join activities that men would attend like rock climbing and running groups. As much as I love yoga, you’re most likely not meeting a single, straight, man there. Also, try through friends, colleagues, family, etc. You really have to try everything and be very open minded if you don’t want to go the dating app route.
Speed dating
I asked my partner this question once: Where did you hang out on weekends before we met? Answer: If not with his son, he would browse around Guitar Center, or MicroCenter. So, if you are interested in music or tech. He also was a regular participant in a local Parents Without Partners-type social organization.
No joke – golfing range. Plus it doubles as stress relief. I met my partner in a similar situation. I’d recommending taking a class or two just to familiarize yourself if you haven’t golfed much.
Tell people you’re looking? You never know.
I have a money/housing/romantic entanglement question. I am trying to buy a house in a HCOL area. My BF of 1.5 years will not be buying it with me – it’ll be my name on deed and my money in the down payment. He probably won’t even move in immediately, but will eventually (he comes with me to most showings, we both know I get final say but I appreciate his opinion and want to buy something that he can also envision as his home.) We both currently pay about 2k in rent and the places I am looking at, depending on lots of factors obviously, will likely have a monthly payment of 3k to 3.5k, which I can easily cover on my own. We’re thinking about what the best way to split the rent would be. We want to make sure that we are both protected in the case of a break up, and to that end we’re planning to have him have a lease.
We’re both comfortable earners, but I make about 1.5x what he does (call it 90k and 145k.) I feel like if it were rent splitting proportional to income would make the most sense, he is 50/50 on that versus just splitting it down the middle. How would you keep things fair, since he won’t be accruing value from the house the way I will? Looking for anecdotes, food for thought, or whatever!
(ps I know it is a little silly that we are talking about moving in after less than two years of dating, please don’t yell at me about that we are trying to figure how to do this but make it safe for both of us in the case of a breakup!)
Unless you’re very young, like right out of college, moving in together after two years really isn’t that fast! Virtually everyone I know who met their spouse after 30 had moved in within 1-2 years.
I don’t think there’s an objective right answer, but splitting according to income feels fair to me. I don’t think he should pay the full 50% because he’s not gaining equity in the house.
Similar situation and I paid all house-related stuff (mortgage, association dues, RE taxes) and he paid groceries etc. It seems less persnickety and is still working 10+ years later.
You didn’t ask, but I’m going to add that you need a cohabitation agreement, with each of you advised by separate counsel (but to save costs, your attorney can draft it).
Don’t necessarily have advice but just want to say that moving in after less than two years isn’t silly at all, especially since based on your salary and the fact that you’re buying a house you are (likely) 25+. My now-husband and I moved in together after less than 1.5 years and we were younger. It sounds like you’re being very intentional and logical about this and I commend you for it!
I haven’t been in this specific scenario, but will say that yes he won’t be accruing value, but it sounds like even if you went to the high end of your budget ($3.5k monthly mortgage) he would be getting cheaper rent than he’s currently paying if you split 50/50. To keep it simple I would honestly just do 50/50 (including utilities) but you cover taxes/insurance.
It doesn’t sound silly at all to be moving in after dating two years.
I don’t understand why that timing would be silly…I married my husband within less than two years of dating.
I’d split proportionate to income.
Yeah, my husband and I were married less than a year after we met, and he basically lived with me from the moment we met (he stayed at his apartment about ten times during that year). Not saying that should be normal for anyone, but two years is incredibly normal.
There really isn’t a “safe” way to do this with a breakup. He should be looking at paying you rent just like he would a landlord because he’s living there rather than an apartment owned by a third party. He wouldn’t get equity from paying a landlord, so he wouldn’t get equity by paying you. Also, what benefit is the lease to you? I’m not sure what benefit the lease will give you unless it allows you to evict him summarily. Keep in mind, most states have landlord tenant laws that are usually tenant friendly. Do you really want to give an ex the rights of a tenant under your state law that would make it harder to kick him out of your house? Also, be aware of your state law regarding contributions to home improvements. My state says that contributions to improvement are gifts. But that doesn’t prevent people from routinely suing to get their money back from an ex.
Agree with all this. If I were in your shoes, I’d want him to just be a tenant with no claim to any equity. And I secon the idea to have a cohabitation agreement that spells that out, as well as the move-out terms if you break up.
It sounds like he could move out with none of the headaches or risk of owning a house. (What if your house value drops, will he be paying for property taxes and new furnaces, none of the down payment or closing costs, he’s probably not getting life insurance to cover his part in case he dies. ) Financially I’d treat this as a roommate/tenant situation. I’d have him pay half the total maintenance or what he currently pays in rent. I might sound jaded but I saw too many friends financially suffer from treating their boyfriends like co owners when they were just tenants. He paid less, saved more, paid off student loans, and didn’t have to deal with being upside down on the mortgage or replacing the water heater if they broke up.
Agree with others that moving in together at 2 years is not fast (it’s exactly what I did and was on the slower side of my peer group, we talked about moving in for the entire second year of our relationship). Now onto the finances:
I’d think about both the total amount you’re splitting and the proportion of the split separately. For the total amount you’re splitting I’d consider a few options a) market rent for that type of space, b) your mortgage payment and related expenses like property tax and condo/HOA fees, and c) option b less the mortgage principal. If those numbers are all similar, great, but if not, you’ll have to discuss which you feel most comfortable with. On the proportionality of it, 50-50 and proportional to income (pre or post tax?) can both be reasonable options. I’ve always out-earned my husband but when we were first co-habitating we split things 50-50 because he could comfortably afford the 50% as we lived well within his means and he made a comfortable income (similar to your situation). Once we got engaged and our income differential grew, we started to split proportionally (I now pay ~70% of shared expenses).
As for moving a boyfriend into a place you own, make sure you’re familiar with the common-law laws in your jurisdiction. They vary A LOT in terms of their implications for his rights to gains on the asset regardless of what’s on the title. We rented together when we were engaged so no personal experience here, but a few of my friends did have to do some legal research.
When I met my now-husband, I already owned my home. I looked at expenses that were going to equity as mine only, and expenses that were just the cost of living there as shared.
Equity expenses were how much of the mortgage payment was going to principal (you can see this on your statement, but it’s close to 0% when you first buy your home).
Shared was the interest. Also shared were utilities, taxes, insurance, as well as groceries, restaurants and gym membership and so forth. We split the latter based on income levels.
When we got married, my house was titled Anon Commenter, a married woman, as her Sole and Separate Property. He had to sign off on that title, which he was fine with. All the equity in the house was technically mine when we sold that house, and would have been mine if we’d split up.
But then we sold that house and bought our current house, we had two babies, and I voluntarily relinquished all of that and agreed to title our new home as community property. Husband was a SAHD for a while, so it didn’t feel right to be haggling over home equity or how to split the bills once he didn’t have an income.
We bought this house in 2003 and are still going strong, so it seems to have worked out!
I’m in a renter friendly jurisdiction and I wouldn’t move a boyfriend into my house. Fiancé, sure. Boyfriend, hard no. After two years, y’all should know if you’re getting married or not.
Splitting bases on income doesn’t make sense. What if you get a huge raise or vice versa?
He should pay rent based on the going rate for your area, as if you were a landlord. That’s fair to you both, not just fair to him.
This.
This is an emotion-driven decision as much as a financial one. Both of you have to feel like the other is being fair to you.
The fact that you will earn equity and he won’t is a red herring. A house is not a savings account, you are not earning a guaranteed 4% for every dollar that goes to your mortgage. You are solely responsible for the liability of homeownership – which includes maintenance, loss of value from wear and tear, the cost/benefit of upgrades, and the risk of positive or negative equity. You had to come up with the down payment. You have to maintain savings sufficient to cover a busted HVAC or roof or whatever. He is not bearing any of those burdens. Whether you will come out ahead in 10 years when you sell your house, and whether and to what extent his payments will have helped with that, is impossible to know sitting here today as you determine whether it’s fair to give him a discount off 50% of housing costs. It would be difficult or impossible to calculate even when you sell the house. At the end of the day it’s just as possible to LOSE money in real estate – which I know a lot of people are in denial about. It’s not like he’s going to pay out of pocket to help you cover the loss. So you shouldn’t be out of pocket to him today to compensate him for money you may or may not earn tomorrow.
We did the thing: collected, scanned (where necessary) and uploaded to the vault platform of our retirement advisor all the documents so that she could do her analysis. Took about two hours (after weeks of thinking it would be hideous and putting it off).
Hooray!!
I have a friend who is planning to retire early at 33 with one million dollars saved. She is following the 7% rule, which means you save as much as you would need in order to live off of 7% annually, with the assumption that you can then live off of the average annual interest.
My confusion is this: it seems like women on this board think about retirement in terms of living off of the savings they have when they retire, and not the interest it produces annually. People on this board retire a lot later than 33, with a lot more money. Shouldn’t you have a lot of interest to live off of without having to worry about touching your actual savings? How does the 7% rule work then / how do FIRE people retire early?
I think your friend will employ the 4% Rule for her early retirement. There’s a different 7% thing in finance. She’d definitely not have enough money to last with that kind of spending rate. You can learn more about FIRE and spending rules at many different websites, like Bogleheads. My best advice is to wish her well. If it’s not for you, then you don’t need to worry about it.
“Never touch the principle” is a saying for a reason. It means that when you stop generating active income (salary etc ), you live off passive income (interest, stock returns, rental income) without spending your accrued capital. Your accrued capital is for true emergencies or for leaving to family/charity.
I personally would not be comfortable taking your friend’s approach. And no one knows what the FIRE people will be doing in 25 years. They are not my problem to solve. People who are too sick/disabled to work of course deserve my compassion and help (via my taxes). People who just did risky math when they were young adults can solve their own issues later.
I always heard you should follow the 4% rule. If it’s 7% then I’m in better shape than I thought!
And I agree, retiring at 33 with just one million dollars saved (assuming no other significant assets) seems foolhardy to me.
Anon at 4:10 to add: Anyone who thinks 7% is the average return hasn’t been paying attention. Even 4% might mean some lean years if you have no other income.
Yeah, of course you’re right. I was just goofing…
7% is very high. I’m close to retirement and planning for the 4% rule.
And PS the idea of living off the interest only is not new to anyone.
7% interest seems very optimistic to me. I heard 5% as an average and I don’t think you can expect that every year.
But bigger picture it’s what people touched on above – end of life caregiving costs. We live in a LCOL in a paid off home and currently feel very affluent on a low six figure annual income. As long as we’re healthy and independent and living in our own home, $100k/year is *plenty* for the lifestyle we want. But we expect costs will go way up near the end of our lives, so we feel like we need a lot more than $2M in assets when we retire. We currently have ~$1.5M in our late 30s (counting home equity) and retirement is not even on my radar.
This is such a helpful response – thank you! I definitely understand better now.
What does she want to do once she retires? If she plans to travel or have a family, has she incorporated those additional costs into her calculations?
Someone from my hometown claims he became a millionaire at 33 and retired at 35 thanks to his real estate investments. He now spends his time hawking his “system” on social media so others can become millionaires too. He charges thousands of dollars to attend a seminar to attain financial freedom like him. Seems like work to me!
I hope you mean the 4% rule – I’ve heard 7% used for expected return per year on average, but 4% is what’s widely thought of as a safe withdrawal rate.
As for your question, people here have a lower risk tolerance that some, expenses they expect to escalate as time goes on (e.g., helping their kids with big expenses), and likely want to preserve at least some capital for the next generation. FIRE folks are generally cool taking the risk that they’ll have to earn income somehow if they run low, keeping expenses stable and low and aren’t worried about leaving anyone an inheritance.
Source: Am 30 and on the fence about FIRE – both doing it at all and when to pull the trigger, although may opt for it as early as mid-thirties.
Completely agree with all of this.
That’s crazy. First off, you can’t spend all of the interest or gains; you have to leave some of the gains invested to compensate for inflation, especially if your time horizon is 60+ years. Second, what happens when the market tanks and the value of her principal falls by 50%?
I don’t think FIRE people really retire. The ones I’ve seen IRL live in conditions of near-poverty while trying to earn money from various “self-employment” schemes like self-publishing their books of financial advice.
Your last paragraph—hah! Or like the poster above about the guy hawking his courses.
There’s often bad financial advice on here, but the idea of retiring at 33 with $1mm and assuming you can withdraw 7% a year forever is among the worst. I hope no one reading this thinks they should do the same!
That is just bananas. And radically stupid.
My rule would be to retire on whatever % returns make sense for my lifestyle.
For instance in your friend’s case, I assume she thinks she can live off 70k annual income pretax. For me that’s too low because my lifestyle is different.
I retired at 48 with a principal of 5-6m. Assuming I shoot for 4-5% returns, I would need to live on 250k annually pretax.
Does that make sense ?
I have a newborn nephew and like the idea of buying stocks or otherwise investing money for him each birthday/Christmas etc instead of toys. I’ll give him a small toy or a book but would rather contribute something towards his future than buy tons of toys.
I know a lot of people contribute towards the 529. Can that also be used for “extras” like studying abroad or certain class trips? Ideally I wanted it to be money I could make exclusively available to him in high school-ish, when more expensive extracurriulars start popping up.
Obviously I’ll ask his parents what they prefer but thought it would be good to have some ideas.
I think this is a lovely idea. When my son was born, his grandparents did something similar. For every holiday, birthday and milestone event, they deposited $1,000 into a trust for him. He cannot access it until he’s 21. They believe, and I fully agree, that paying for college is up to the parents.
my parents gifted us $500 for every birthday and xmas – i saved it all to open a vanguard UTMA account and invested it. my 12 year old has about $15,000 now. not bad, but with UTMA you get access to all of it at 18… so I think we’ll use it for pricy camps or maybe put it towards a first car.
I would not want that kind of money in the kid’s name because the college financial aid formulas take a much larger percentage of the child’s assets than of the parents’.
Has anyone watched “Red, White, and Royal Blue” on Amazon? I loved it so much that I then read the book (even better than the movie), watched the movie again, then skimmed the book again! It was so romantic, s**y (two romantic, hot guys being so sweet and s**y to each other – yes, please!), and such a feel-good plot. I then went down a rabbit hole to see what else the two lead actors are in, and watched Purple Hearts on Netflix. It stars Nicholas Galitzine (Prince Henry from RWRB) in a completely different role and despite the mixed/not great reviews, I loved it.
If you like Nicholas Galitzine you might also enjoy the Cinderella musical film on Amazon, it’s also got lots of great supporting roles like Billy Porter as the fairy godmother.
Also, the Netflix series Heartstopper (UK, queer, coming of age) is probably something you’ll enjoy!
I’ve watched Heartstopper and absolutely love it! I’ll have to give Cinderella a try :-)
Try Young Royals too!
I loved RW&RB! It was such a feel good movie and so cute
YES it’s so good. I’m obsessed. The actor who plays the president’s son is gorgeous!
I liked the book, but I just watched the trailer and found Uma Thurman’s accent super distracting?
Wait, they made it into a movie?? I LOVED those books!!
I read this book based on the string recommendations here, and while it was fun, I could just not shake this feeling of being a creep. The main characters were so young!!! (And I swear I’m only 40.)
Yeah I felt skeevy too.