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Workwear Hall of Fame: Pintucked Waist Seamed Ponte Knit Fit & Flare Dress

Cap-Sleeve Work Dress: Eliza J Pintucked Waist Seamed Ponte Knit Fit & Flare Dress

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Wow — they really expanded the colors for this dress quickly. When we featured the dress several months ago, there were only a few colors available, but the reader who'd written us to recommend it liked it so much she’d bought all of them — it’s great to see that it now comes in 6 colors and has 75 glowing reviews at Nordstrom, where it’s available in sizes 2-16. (The aubergine that we featured last time is available at Lord & Taylor, but it's $128.) Eliza J Pintucked Waist Seamed Ponte Knit Fit & Flare Dress

The dress is also available in plus sizes (in aubergine only, it appears).

Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

(L-5)

Sales of note for 12.5

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355 Comments

  1. Yay Kat! What a cute dress! I just called Rosa up in Weschester to look and she is goeing to Nordstrom’s this morning to try these on! She thank’s you too! YAY!!!!!

    I have been stuck in LI b/c of mom’s bunion’s b/c her caretaker went back to Haiti to visit relative’s leaveing her with me and Dad, and Dad does NOT like to cook. He says takeout food is garbage, so he has ME cookeing for everyone. He must realy be desperate. So the manageing partner is letting me “work from here”, b/c my MacBook air can access our new wireless rooter even tho the rooter is in Manhatan! Dad says this is nothing new, but it IS for our firm. The teck guy gave us all new passwords, and it now work’s great!

    Myrna is comeing out this weekend and we will go to the Beach in her car! I was thinkeing of buying a car and dad says OK, as long as I leave it here at the house. I hope I can now find a guy with a car. YAY!!!!!

  2. There was a poster here who was looking to go PT recently. I’m not sure where you are and its a long shot that you’re in the NY area, but if you are – check out ny courts dot gov; a judge is looking to hire a PT court attorney. Listed under careers, New York county.

    1. I felt like an insider when I saw the headline! Hope you’re feeling better KT!

    3. This isn’t KT though – she’s said she lives in Orlando, which is in Orange County not Pinellas. Still no confirmed cases in Orange Cty.

        1. OMG. If you are going to discuss this, at least get the facts straight.

          She said she was in Tampa/St. Pete recently, which are Hillsborough County and Pinellas County, respectively.

      2. I don’t actually live IN Orlando. I live closeby, it’s just easier to say ‘Orlando’ then a small-town-an-hour-outside. I am not in Orange County.

        I did hear from some folks last night about my case; they are investigating a bit more me, my husband, and folks I came into contact with in St. Petersburg. They believe that’s where it stemmed from, but it’s not an exact science at this point.

    4. Yes. One in Pinellas County and four more in Miami. This was already news, an article about it was posted in that thread, and zero of the cases are in Orlando. Zero.

    5. Look, I asked Kat to delete the thread yesterday because I am just so not in the place to debate the state of my health with commenters.

      But for those who think I’m a liar, fine, that’s your prerogative. But I’m not going to defend myself, post my medical records or any other nonsense.

      I was just looking for a safe place to vent, and it got ridiculous.

      I do appreciate people’s well-wishes and support messages. Thank you.

    6. I just tried to post this and it disappeared, so apologies if this shows up twice.

      I asked Kat to delete yesterday’s thread because I am not up for debating the state of my health with anonymous folks. I was posting just to vent, and instead, I end up having to defend myself and being asked to post my health records (really?).

      If you think I’m a liar, fine, that’s your prerogative. I’m not arguing or debating it. Think what you will.

      For those who posted well-wishes, thank you. I do appreciate it.

      1. Omg major eye roll. Delete the thread? That’s absurd and not something that is done here. You didn’t have to share, you didn’t have to debate, just ignore it and move on.

        1. Serious question: Why go anonymous if you’re doing such a major eye roll? Can you at least put a name to your account? It’s amazing the snark people put out behind the anon shield.

          1. So I’m an Anon who wasn’t snarking on you yesterday (or today), but I will explain why I am Anon (as opposed to a regular, yet still technically anonymous, handle) –

            Because I have “recognized” multiple regular posters on here IRL based on the cumulative information they’ve disclosed over time under the same handle, and I really don’t want that happening to me.

          2. So I’m an Anon who wasn’t posting rude responses to you yesterday (or today), but I will explain why I am Anon (as opposed to a regular, yet still technically anonymous, handle) –

            Because I have “recognized” multiple regular posters on here IRL based on the cumulative information they’ve disclosed over time under the same handle, and I really don’t want that happening to me.

          3. ^And I get that and that’s totally fine. I just get frustrated at the people who are really harsh, if not outright cruel (I don’t mean specifically this case–no one was
            “cruel”, but across the board to everyone), but are Anonymous or “Anonforthis”. If you are going to be combative or rude, at least own it and put a name to it.

          4. Because I can’t be bothered typing in a name; don’t like how easily unanonymized things are; and think everyone else is anonymous too.

          5. People sometimes go commando when they do not want others to know who they are. Other times, they post under their own names. In this case, the OP started out above board, but then went commando, and now regrets it. All posts should remain up so that people can see what the story is all about. As for the OP’s health, we all want her to perk up and be better, whether or not she chooses to go commando.

        2. Don’t be mean. I would have done the same thing if I felt attacked; esp after surprise news like that.

          Hope you get recovered soon.

      3. I’d like to sum up every mean comment on this site: You’re lying. You’re dramatic. You don’t have a right to your feelings. You’re spending your money unwisely.

        KT – I am glad you feel better. Chin up.

      4. Sorry, KT – I was definitely not trying to reopen anything from yesterday. I just saw the article and snorted to myself about the ridiculousness of some people.

        Glad to hear you are feeling better…

      5. I was really disappointed by the response of some yesterday to news of your illness. Not only because you’ve made a lot of positive contributions to this community, but because accusing someone of faking an illness is RHOBH nonsense, not something I’d expect from a group of professional women who support each other.

        4. I agree. I was disappointed in those commenters who accused KT of lying, etc.

          When someone gets a diagnosis, it does not make its way to a CNN headline within 15 seconds.

          As someone local to central Florida, we’re being told that the St. Petersburg case (Pinellas County, just south of Tampa) is complicated and involves an extensive investigation that could take months to track (heard that on NPR this morning). For the past couple of weeks, there has been all sorts of news locally (not sure about whether it’s national) about frustration of the communication between the local, state and national entities involved in reporting the cases. Based on this, I’m not at all surprised that there could be several people like KT who have been diagnosed with Zika in Florida and it is not national news yet.

          It is entirely possible that KT got her diagnosis, the results were sent to the CDC, and it’s being analyzed, but hasn’t been released.

      6. Hope you feel better soon. I was also weirded out and disappointed by the ridiculousness of some anons here questioning your story.

    7. This is funny: mosquitoes are winged creatures that fly with reckless abandon.

  4. So I’m headed to my husband’s company picnic next Friday. I’ve been doing work/traveling/at work or dealing with the kids during every other event his company has had since DH joined 4 years ago (mainly holiday parties). But I’m on maternity leave and DH has a role where it’d be really nice for me to show up with the kids (3 and 5 weeks) for schmoozing. I have nothing to wear!

    I need:
    – something outdoor company picnic appropriate (employees work in a casual side of biz casual and I doubt are changing- just coming to work in whatever they are wearing). DH is probably going to wear a linen button down and khaki pants or jeans. If I got into any of my pre pregnancy clothes, I’d wear either ankle length cropped colored pants and a sleeveless shirt with jewelry (so…office clothes in bright colors) or maybe a very casual work dress (somethings lands-end-Y)

    – I’m going to be 5 weeks post partum and have 25 of the 60lns I gained left to lose. I’ve been living in maxi dresses, yoga pants, and running shorts/tanks on may leave. None of the maxi dresses I have are right for the picnic- either too much cleavage or too worn from being one of my only outfits all summer.

    Looking for something probably size 12-14 (I’m a prepreg 8/10), forgiving, and ideally not super un-nursing friendly. I won’t be BFing publically at the the picnic but I’ll probably need to pump or at least manage my enlarging boobs.
    -I’m 5’9″ so can’t run short
    – need to try on in person, have all mall stores nearby.
    -not red or white since my kids will be in those colors and I don’t want to be matchy matchy.

    1. I’d go to old navy, gap and loft and just buy an easy to wear dress. They have talls and their regulars aren’t usually too short. Lots of options.

      1. I’m roughly the same size as you, and to my frequent dismay, most mall stores dont carry their tall sizes in store – you might have to try on the regular and then order the tall.

    2. Agree with AIMS. I bought a couple dresses there, super cheap, and they’re good for weight fluctuations. Most of their styles are very forgiving. I bought one of their swing dresses while nursing, and I just pulled down the neckline, and boom, there you go. Of course, I’m pretty small on top even when nursing, but I bet it would work for just about anyone.

      1. By “there” I meant Old Navy, which is cheaper than Gap and Loft, and I think their styles are more forgiving.

      2. Even Target – I have a few Target dresses that have become summer casual staples for me.

    3. Or go with your original idea and buy a pair of ankle pants and a shirt that fit you now. If you don’t want to spend too much, thnking that you won’t wear them much, try JCP (the emma ankle pant by Liz Clairborne) or Old Navy (Pixie).

      1. I have this dress in the green and the “tangerine” (which is red and navy). I am a 14+ (depends on the day) and the L fits me perfectly. I would HIGHLY recommend it. I think it’s super flattering and very comfortable.

    5. I can’t remember if 5 week old babies have had their shots yet, but I wouldn’t take a 5 week old baby out to a large group gathering. B/w the germs and the floppy head and nursing (if you are) and other kid, I might leave the baby if you can find someone to watch him/her and just go out with the other charming child for no longer than I could last b/w feedings. Or let husband attend with older child.

      When life gives me a pass, I take it, esp. when there are downsides to going.

      1. Agree, I would not take a baby to a large gathering like this before the 8 week shots.

      2. Eh, we live on the edge. It’s outside. She’s been going outside to places since 2 weeks old.

      3. Lol, with the second kid, the infant gets hauled around to everything. And usually spends most of the time in a Bjorn or stroller, and is just fine. I mean, there are always downsides to everything, you can’t live your life like that (see yesterday’s discussion re assumptions of risk and moral responsibility.)

    6. What about the Lands End v-necked fit and flare dress? It’s on sale and would be nursing friendly with a demi-cami.

      It looks like only the blue stripe is still available in tall, but you may even be able to get away with the regular length since its on the longer side for a knee length dress.

      http://www.landsend.com/shop/search?Ntt=“fit+and+flare+dress”&brandCode=classic

      Or could you get a demi-cami to wear with one of your maxis with too much cleavage? It’s still easy to nurse in them by just pulling it up and out of the way, but covers cleavage. I’ve gotten a lot of use out of the Second Base brand demi-camis I bought off Amazon.

      Otherwise, I agree that getting a new pair of ankle pants that fit now (perhaps a pull on style) would be a good way to go.

      1. I bought this dress in-person at a Sears Lands End department. I think it would be perfect for something like this.

      2. That was my go-to post-partum dress (heck, it still is, almost two years out). Also, bonus of being breast-feeding friendly, at least for me.

      1. I love that dress. Have it in multiple colors and patterns and I always get compliments on it. It’s a weekend staple for me.

    8. Dresses are going to be in short supply in stores now as they’re already stocking fall merchandise. What about a denim skirt and a looser top? You should be able to get those at Old Navy etc.

      1. It depends where you are in the country. In Texas, we’ll be in sleeveless dresses until October, so the stores are still fully stocked.

    9. If a maxi dress you already own shows too much cleavage, you can always wear a cami underneath.

    10. I’m 5’10” and pretty much only have luck “in stores” at Anthro. (Love talls from other common brands, but talls aren’t ever in stores.) I have found so many dresses there that look great as my postpartum body shifts around. Shopping for pants at five weeks postpartum sounds awful to me–I wouldn’t even bother.

  5. How do you handle friends who frequently bail/flake on plans? I’ve got an old friend who frequently asks me to make plans, but has a cancel rate of 50%+, nearly always same-day or even an hour or two before the scheduled meet-up. I find this very frustrating, particularly if I’ve turned down other plans to put her on my calendar.

    I’ve stopped inviting her to hang out unless it’s a group, but would you deflect or be honest when declining her invitations? This behavior has definitely made me resent her and not want to visit, because it feels incredibly selfish to me.

    1. Ha, I just got a text from a friend who always does this to me, canceling on me for the third time this week. Some people are just flaky and oblivious to how it affects others. It drives me nuts but I’ve been friends with this woman for a long time and I’ve accepted this is part of her personality. It still drives me nuts, though.

      OTOH, I have another friend who always has an excuse when she’s invited to something, or cancels at the last minute for really dumb reasons, and since I’m not as close to this person I’ve just stopped bothering to invite her to stuff.

      1. Yeah I have these friends. One I accept (even though it makes me bonkers) and the others I just fade out. The one that has always been flaky – really since the beginning of our friendship – will do this: I text her on maybe a Wednesday asking if she wants to do something Friday night. Thursday will come and go, Friday will come and go, all the while I have not made other plans Friday night, and then Saturday or Sunday she will text back something like “sorry, I couldn’t make it, I had XYZ” – yeah, no kidding you couldn’t make it! I will say that over the years she has gotten a liiiiittle better – I think we all realize it’s harder to make new friends the more you are out of school.

    2. Accept her invitations and cancel if you later get another invitation that you’d like to accept. If I read your post correctly, you’re resentful because you’re declining other invitations in favor of hanging out with her but she doesn’t do the same for you. So stop doing that. You don’t need to stop hanging out with her, you just need to stop putting your life on hold for her.

    3. “No, I’m not doing that because last time you cancelled an hour before which was rude and inconvenient.”

        1. Being friends doesn’t mean you get a free pass to be a d7ck all the time. It’s very rude and disrespectful to not respect someone’s time.

          2. Yup. Sometimes we are rude. I call my friends on it, they do on me. Either we apologize and move on or not.

      2. +1

        Also have to disagree with Anon at 9:23. If you find it upsetting when she cancels at the last minute, don’t do the same to her. Just tell her it was rude.

        FWIW, I have a friend I had this conversation with and it didn’t go over especially well. She was pretty offended and we’re not as close as we used to be, but our friendship was already suffering because of the cancellations and lateness etc. I might choose my words differently if I had it to do over again, but I still think being direct with her was the right choice. Just be prepared for her to not react that well.

      3. I’d say a nicer version on this: “I’d love to make plans with you, but you so frequently cancel at the last minute which I don’t love. Why don’t you text me on Tuesday morning if you’re still interested in hanging out on Tuesday evening, and we’ll see at that point if it still works?”

        1. I think that works well. Of course if she confirms Tuesday morning and flakes Tuesday evening that is very bad indeed.

          1. It would be very bad! I have a very flakey friend who sometimes cancels a few hours before. I don’t think it’s because she only changes her mind hours before, but because she has actually not been feeling up to it or been juggling a lot of things are work for the last several days but was going to push through and realizes too late that she can’t push through. This approach gives her an out if she’s not feeling up to it when the day arrives. I think a lot of flakey people are just overwhelmed, and relatively few are jerks who like messing their friends around.

    4. Can you accept tentatively:

      “I’m not sure I’m free then. If this is a go, can you let me know when you’re reading over and I can try to juggle some things and meet up with you?”

      That way, if you accept something else, that’s OK. But if she is actually free and you are, too, you can meet up the one time she’s following through. But don’t say a full-on yes. Just hedge.

    6. I have a “friend” like this. I would completely drop her, if it weren’t that our families have been friends forever. We met on the beach as babies. She just cancelled plans with me tonight. It’s my birthday!

    7. If this person is your friend, truly, then you owe it to the relationship to be honest. “I love seeing you, but you’ve cancelled half of our recent plans at the last minute. I feel like you don’t respect my time. Can you commit to the plans you’re making? Because if you can’t, I don’t want to make them.”

    8. I have a friend like this, so I only invite her to meet up at my house or at a location that is more convenient for me. At least if I get stood up, I’m at home or close to my grocery store and can carry on with my day as normal.

    9. I have a friend that constantly cancels plans (that she makes!). I almost always accept and have a flexible backup plan. E.g. she asks me to meet her out for lunch, I say yes, but also bring my lunch from home like any other day, just in case. If we go to lunch, great! If she cancels, I have my lunch and dont have to go out alone. Sure it’s annoying, but it tempers my frustration with her. I know my friend struggles with depression and anxiety, so I try to be really generous with her. She does want to see me, but something gets in the way. The last thing she needs is me berating her for something she has little control over and probably makes her feel bad as it is. Not saying that’s your friend’s situation, but when in doubt, I try to be generous with people when the worst that happens is annoyance.

    10. I might be your friend. I suffer from interminable optimism. When an invitation is extended, I want to go! I think I will be free. And then inevitably something happens that is out of my control (I’m sick, I got handed another giant project with an impossible deadline, kid is sick, car is dying, etc.) and I have to cancel. I hate it and I feel like a jerk.

      Genuine question: in my position, is it better to turn down invitations because I know I have a terrible follow-through rate or to cancel after they’ve been set? I don’t want to not see my friend because something might come up, but at the same time, odds are better than average that something will come up.

      1. I don’t think being sick, having a sick kid, or a car breaking down are bad reasons to cancel plans! I think mostly we’re talking here about people who flake _without_ a good reason. That or knowing about the reason significantly in advance, but failing to tell me about it and actually cancel until the last minute. Or at least I am.

        And work can and does come up. But if that’s your reason a lot, maybe try to do better about looking at what’s on your calendar and thinking about whether or not you really do have time for plans.

        1. I disagree, if something inevitably happens ALL OF THE TIME, then yeah, you shouldn’t accept plans.

          1. Agreed. After having to cancel plans with friends more than twice while working at a law firm, I stopped making and accepting plans. And that is why I no longer work at a law firm.

      2. Sorry bro, you are a d7ck. You should not accept plans and you should initiate plans that YOU WILL KEEP. Perhaps there is another way you can engage friends that doesn’t involve meeting in person. Texts, calls, Skype, mailing each other random gifts, etc. When I get an invitation, it goes in my calendar and that’s it, my time is booked and I keep my appointment.

      3. It can’t be the case that your child is sick or your car breaks down so frequently that you are cancelling more than 50% of the plans you make with people. (That’s why no one bats an eyelash when you cancel because your car breaks down – it’s a once-in-a-blue-moon thing that you couldn’t have predicted!) Be honest with yourself about what makes up the difference. If you get a lot of last minute assignments at work because you’re lowest man on the totem pole, then I think you do have to be more careful about which invitations you accept. When I was an articling student and a junior associate, I seldom made firm commitments and became a “I’m so sorry, but I can’t predict what work will be like that day. I’ll be there if I can!” person. If I did make a firm commitment, then I broadcast it around the office for a couple of days before and turned down last minute work.

        1. That’s fair, and part of my own frustration is that I already feel like I miss seeing my friends. I have a much higher success rate on the weekends, when it’s less likely that work will intervene or more likely that I can juggle something with my husband so I can keep my commitment. It’s the after-work happy hours that often get bumped. I should respond like you suggest for those gatherings so no one is counting on me.

          1. Yeah that’s the obnoxious part. You have a husband. Don’t bail on me because childcare.

        2. I think in these scenarios, it’s often the case that the person has not planned ahead with her scheudle so she can keep the commitment she has made, or that she doesn’t know how to set boundaries at work. It’s infuriating to those of us who feel it is a priority to keep commitments to friends and to show up unless there is an actual, legitimate illness or emergency.

          I’ve been discussing this with friends a lot lately, as I have some very close friends who repeatedly flake and it’s to the point where I feel they’re treating me like a second class citizen in their lives. I’d rather not be friends than be treated that way. There’s a perfect article about this that has been making the rounds on FB lately: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wendy-atterberry/showing-up-the-single-most-important-thing-a-friend-can-do_b_5697930.html

          1. This thread is making me laugh. I don’t like flaking either but apparently none of you work in my industry, because I would have to be literally standing up in someone’s wedding before I could “turn down work”.

            To the person who feels like she is flaking: my solution has been to significantly reduce my deep friendships. Sad but true. Pretty much the only “safe” time for me to schedule is Saturday night or Sunday morning. I try to hang out with other friends with kids, or friends who don’t mind hanging out with my kids, so the husband juggle isn’t a problem. Then if a work emergency happens on the weekend, I’m not asking my husband to cover for me for both my work and my social life.

          2. E, I’m so sorry to hear that–that sounds tough and like you are doing what you can! I work in BigLaw, so that’s my only reference and I have no idea about other industries, but I know from my experience that especially junior associates sometimes feel fear in telling a partner that they have a commitment they need to keep. That’s how I manage it–I don’t schedule during crazy busy times; when I have something scheduled in advance, I plan ahead to ensure I have time for it; and if last minute work comes in, I can and do tell my partners that I have a commitment but can be back online at X time. This works beautifully. If there’s a true work emergency–expedited/unexpected briefing or something similar–then of course I am apologetic to the friend and explain. But almost nothing in my office/work falls into that category.

          3. LAJen — I’m big law but a transactional practice with very low visibility into workflow (even on a day to day basis). FWIW I’m a senior associate with a lot of autonomy, but “turning down work” or declining a call invite for social reasons is not compatible with my practice area. I usually just get the call invite directly from the client and would have to make a big deal about it if I couldn’t attend. No one is going to schedule a 15 person call around my social schedule.

      4. I have a friend who tries to pass off her flakiness as optimism too. She’s always late (20 minutes is the minimum, it’s usually closer to an hour) and she typically has at least 3 plans for any given time period and just decides at the last minute which one to go to. She makes a firm commitment when she actually means “that sounds really interesting! I’d love to go if nothing else comes up!” She says it’s just her optimism–that she thought she would make it on time! There would be no traffic and all the lights would be green and a police officer would magically appear to provide her a zippy escort to brunch! She could fit in three events on opposite sides of town in a span of 2 hours and actually pay attention to her company at each one!

        Sorry, but that’s not optimism. It’s being self-centered and completely unrealistic in a lalaland of time.

    11. I have done this before because of anxiety and depression. It was so bad I would get ready to go to events, get in a cab, and get back out. I actually went through a couple of months when I didn’t go to any events at all. Now my rule is that I can cancel/no show for things with more than 100 people attending that don’t cost anyone except me money. Otherwise, I have to be throwing up to cancel. Also a lot easier now that I’m not a junior associate, of course. (In those days, I was always much busier later in the week, so I only made firm plans for Friday nights, Saturdays (never all day), Sundays (maybe all day things) or Mondays (if nothing else worked).)

      You might ask if there’s something else going on. If not, she’s a jerk, but if so, she might need concern from a friend.

      1. I’ve been there too. I currently have a friend who is struggling with post-partum depression and I have made it very clear that she can cancel on me at any time with no repercussions to our friendship. It sucks to really want to go to an event, but your brain just says no. Can be very isolating.

  6. Hive, how many of you have had LASIK? Do you recommend it? Any recommendations for a good doctor in Philly for a consult? Thanks!

    1. DH had it. He even had to go in for a ‘touch up’ 18 mos after initial procedure. It changed his life. He’ll need glasses for night driving soon (6 years post initial procedure) but that pales in comparison to how terrible his eyes were pre procedure. Not in Philly, but good luck.

    2. I had it about 6 months ago. I was very near sighted (worse than -6.00) in both eyes. It was life-changing since my vision is 20/20 now. The first month of recovery was a little rough thanks to allergy season so think about timing if there are lots of seasonal allergies in your area. I don’t need reading glasses yet. I saw some mild halos and glare when driving at night pre-surgery. That’s stayed about the same. I wish I had done it sooner.

    3. No personal experience with corrective eye surgery, but both of my brothers have had PRK and fantastic experiences. None of the night issues/halo issues associated with LASIK.

    4. I went to Dr. Pyfer in Philadelphia. He is a miracle and is brilliant. I had some serious eye issues beforehand, which he helped fix, then did my Lasik and my husband’s.

      And to add to his awesomeness….

      When my mom was in the hospital for a life-threatening illness, on top of everything, her eyes started swelling and she couldn’t see out of the one eye and the hospital couldn’t figure out what was going. I started calling people desperately, and left some bizarre message for Dr. Pyfer on his office line.

      2 hours later, he strolled into the hospital (an hour away from where he practiced), said he was a family friend, and examined my mom. He was the one to figure out that it was the bandages they were using on her head that she was reacting too. It was such a stupid little thing, but the fact that he literally drove out to see her was so amazing. I adore him.

      1. And to add—both my husband and I had very easy procedures.

        We saw Dr. Pyfer for the consultations, measurements and the actual procedure. He has several different offices in the Philly area, including the Wills Eye Centers in Center City and Jenkintown.

        I didn’t need any medication; my procedure was done in 15 minutes, and as soon I sat up, I could read the clock on the wall. He told me to sleep as much as possible, so gave me a valium and I napped. He called me personally that evening to make sure I was okay.

        For my husband’s procedure, he was petrified, so Dr. Pyfer made him take valium before the procedure itself. In the room, my husband panicked and his heart started racing, but the doctor talked to him and calmed him, and the procedure finished without a hitch, but took about 25 minutes.

        We both have better than 20/20 now. My procedure was 7 years ago, my husband’s two.

    5. I had LASIK in 2003 (in my early 20s) and it’s been great. I had a small correction on one eye a couple months out from the initial surgery, and my eyes settled into one slightly farsighted and one slightly nearsighted, but neither needing correction for day to day life. I have reading glasses I mostly use for eye strain with computer screens.

    6. Replying to follow as I was going to ask this same question with the minor change of any SF recommendations….

        1. I also went to Dr. Manche at Stanford. I did PRK because I have thick corneas or something. (PRK is different and has much longer recovery!) On the Stanford alumni listserv, it comes up inevitably about every three months, and everyone in the Bay Area says, “He’s the best!” and then about twenty people write in and say, “I love him!” and that’s pretty much the deal–he’s who you should go to in the Bay Area. I have posted about it on Corporette before, as have others:

          https://corporette.com/suit-week-gucci/

          https://corporette.com/suit-of-the-week-j-crew-2/

  7. Man, Hillary. If you were running against almost anyone else, I would not vote for you. It just gets worse and worse.

    1. What’s he done now? I think I reached my breaking point with him/this election when he implied that the “second amendment people” should assassinate Clinton. I just don’t have the emotional energy to be outraged on a daily basis.

      1. I think anon2 is upset with something Hillary has done. Guessing its the new emails?

        1. Yup. She said she had released everything, but nope. And the emails clearly show that she traded favors for donations to her foundation. Meanwhile, she laughs it off and says the subject is “boring.”

          2. Yeah, it is boring. During the primary even Bernie said he’s sick of hearing about the damn emails and I am too.

          3. The “traded favors for donations” doesn’t bug me too much. That’s an oversimplification. Rich/ powerful people know other rich/powerful people and grant them access to things other people don’t get. For many reasons. It’s not fair, but it’s also not uncommon.

          4. Uhhh that was in like the first debate before he changed his mind as more facts came out that showed she had made big mistakes. I am thinking y’all aren’t really up on the news. http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2016-08-24/many-donors-to-clinton-foundation-met-with-her-at-state

            Look, I said I’m voting for her, so obviously I’m not a big Trump fan who is just reading into nothing.

            Are you telling me this wouldn’t have bothered you if it had been George W. Bush?

          5. Oh. No. I’m up on the news. I just don’t think it’s a big deal. Not at all. Even a little bit.

          6. I’m up on the news. I think this kind of thing is totally common and all politicians do it. It doesn’t mean it is ideal, but it is the reality of our political system and I also don’t think a man would get hammered for this the way she is.

          7. This is nuts. Did you listen to the FBI director’s speech? It literally IS a big deal. Nobody else does it. She has tried to say Powell did it, but that’s simply not true — according to Powell himself, the FBI, and the actual facts. It literally is a bit deal.

            I also don’t think you would be excusing it if she were a man.

          9. So as long as the presidential candidate isn’t charged with a felony, you’re good to go!

          10. I’m voting for her while holding my nose. I agree it is a very big deal. In any other year, I would not vote for someone so dishonest.

          11. Do I like that people do the wrong thing? No. For reference, George W. Bush lost an estimated 5 million to possibly 20 million emails in 2007, too. Don’t like that, either. Do I like that the rich or the powerful help each other out? No. But I’m not surprised by it; it has literally been happening since the dawn of humans.

            I am sooooooo “with her” but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t like 10% of things she has done that I’m not on board with. People call it choosing the lesser of two emails; that’s fine, but stupid. Honestly, is there *anyone* on the planet you agree with 100% other than yourself? Sheesh, I don’t think even if I ran or my beloved fiance ran, I would agree with everything I choose to do or he chose to do/say.

            Donald Trump has a new disqualifying statement/idea nearly every single day. Hilary has one- her emails, so Trump supporters try to inflate that part (which is what, 10%? 50% at most of what you don’t agree with about her) into a bigger deal to compare with the… 85% 90% 99% of him that most of us don’t agree with. I just don’t understand how people expect political candidates to be perfect people you agree with 100%.

          12. nutella – this is my favorite typo, and made my morning!

            “People call it choosing the lesser of two emails”

          13. A watchdog group put it in good context on NPR this morning. This really isn’t much different how political donations in general work. It’s not pretty and he was in favor of reforming campaign finance generally, but it’s status quo in Washington

    2. Hillary is a lying liar, just like her husband. She has repeatedly lied about her emails, from the very beginning. The FBI isn’t charging her solely for political reasons. NPR is practically a Hillary campaign megaphone. They are both the most corrupt politicians in the country, and it’s incredible to me that people are excusing her behavior just because other, less corrupt politicians exist. Don’t even get me started on how the Clinton Foundation serves as a vehicle to funnel vast amounts of money to herself and her supporters under the guise of charity.

      3. Didn’t the Clinton Foundation actually get an excellent rating from the charity watchdog organization?

      4. Lol, What? People — donors of the Clinton foundation requested favors. Of course they did! Not a single email shows that Hillary or her staff ever granted a favor in exchange for a donation. Ever. Let’s get our facts straight, please.

    3. There is literally no story here. People who the Clintons know and who gave money to her charity reached out to her staff at State and requested favors. No favors were ever granted. What is the scandal here, exactly?

      1. Had the same story come out about Trump or any Republican you would all be outraged. Because it is Hillary (both a woman and a Democrat) you willingly turn a blind eye.

        And this is not just “how it works”. This is not a campaign contribution to a local representative. This is millions and millions of dollars including from foreign interests while she was Secretary of State to give them access and favorable outcomes. This is pay to play. This is using the United States’ office and her position to enrich herself and her family personally to epic proportions. This is not normal and not acceptable.

        And I used to be a Democrat.

  8. I took the plunge and signed up for Okcupid. Any tips for a good profile? Any success stories? I’ve gotten lots of likes and visitors in the last 12 hours but no messages yet. I guess I should take initiative and message someone first but I just freeze, I have no idea what to say. I am terrible at this man thing.

    1. Draft your profile so that it provides easy things for men to ask you about/message you about that you actually want to talk about. For example, mine is peppered with specific examples of things I like or that are important to me, or are quirky and adorable (well, to someone). For example, my deep and abiding love for cheese is mentioned throughout, my interest in hiking with a line like “always seeking recs for my next backpacking destination,” and I mention my niche field and also my side hobby as an amateur musician. It’s easy for quality guys to write a message that’s better than “sup bby” or “hey” and you’ve got an invite to talk about something that engages you.

      I got one of my best friends to help me write mine- she and I are really witty together and we basically had a conversation about who I am and wrote it down and tweaked it, if that makes sense.

      I’ve met several guys on OKC that were great fits for me-things didn’t work out for reasons no online dating site can screen for. Fill out the questions, especially the deal breaker ones.

      I’ve been off and on the site for a few years now. I get the impression that the quality of dudes has gone down recently (also I’ve gotten older), and that people are less inclined to send longer, paragraph-length messages to each other like they used to and are more interested in using the site (now app) as a contemporaneous chat feature. That may work for some people but it doesn’t for me- I do not have time (esp. during the work day, too busy posting here, obvi) to text strangers BS one liners about “how was ur day what is ur favorite mexican food I too love guacamole.” I’d rather send longer messages where you exchange more ideas and information about who you are, so also consider whether the chat “style” you’re using works best for you.

      1. From everything I’ve read you might be the exception when it comes to lengthy messages. Most people advise meeting each other quickly rather than spending a lot of time messaging.

        1. Different poster, but I’m not sure those are the same issue. I met my fiance on OKCupid, but his opening message was a couple of paragraphs long engaging on things I’d mentioned in my profile (my deep and abiding hate for folding laundry, my love of travel and craft beer, the fact that pickles touching my food irreparably ruins it, etc.) We sent maybe two or three messages back and forth about these subjects over the course of the day and had a date scheduled by the end of the day for later in the week. You can exchange substantive messages and still quickly get to the point.

          1. +1 – that’s how I screened for anyone I dated. Oh and if you really like someone and are a total optimist, screen shot their messages to you so you can save them for when you drop off the site. My husband’s first notes to me still make me really happy.

        2. Ehh…. I’m certain I’m not the only one who feels this way. For one, I don’t have time to talk all day so that I can meet someone quickly and my schedule is pretty booked for a week or so out… there’s no realistic universe in which I’m going to start messaging someone on Monday and have a date scheduled for later in the week/weekend. People usually advise that so that you don’t spend tons of time messaging just to build up your expectations and get let down when there’s no in person chemistry. It’s not that I don’t want to meet, I just want to spend my time meeting people I’ll click with, and find my conversations during dates are much better and much easier this way than they are with guys I’ve met “quickly.” For me, it’s not about length of time spent messaging, it’s about the substance of the messages. You can spend weeks exchanging small talk, or you can write 4-5 paragraph messages per person over the course of one week. It tells me literally nothing about a person to do less substantive chatting in real time with a stranger. I’ve started doing that recently with a different app and it makes me cringe. I meet up with these guys and it’s like, oh ok you like going to brunch on the weekends and work long hours too, how interesting. All four I’ve met up with so far this way have been duds. Waste of time.

    2. No you’re not! As for profile, good recent pics are crucial. Otherwise, I found I got better messages if I wrote a medium amount – you don’t want to overwhelm with information, but you also don’t want to be bare bones. Talk about a fun experience you had or crack a joke, etc. I tended to be lighthearted as there are plenty of opportunities to filter out duds once you get messages going.

      When I was the first to message, I would look at their profile and either ask a question about one of their interests or make a comment about one. That shows that you have seen the profile and paid attention and are interested in learning more about them.

      Just remember, you have no obligation to anyone to respond or to write to them! Have fun, block the jerks, and tells us any funny stories that come of it. :)

    3. Have a couple of friends read your profile, including at least 1 guy if you can. My best friend’s boyfriend gave me the best advice on editing mine.

      I found it helpful to include a note in my profile that I wasn’t interested in endless messaging and would be up for meeting quickly.

      When you message someone (and you should!) try commenting on something you saw in their profile and how it relates to you. Those were always the best messages I received so I tried to do the same.

      The advice I got here was to set up a bunch of dates with any person who seemed interesting. That takes some pressure off. If Tuesday’s coffee date doesn’t go well, you’ve got Thursday’s date to look forward to.

      I’m a success story! I met my now-husband on OKCupid in 2012. I popped up in the side box for someone he might be interested in even though we weren’t an exact match. He messaged me about a book I was reading, we met about a week later, and the rest is history.

    4. If I remember correctly, OKCupid has a question at the bottom of your profile that says something like “You should message me if…” Make sure you have a good, open, and inviting answer to that question! I got the most messages in direct response to it. I think my answers were things like “you know a restaurant in XYZ specific neighborhood in town that I probably haven’t tried yet” or “you know the best hike within 30 miles of XYZ town,” or “you have the connections to get us box seats to XYZ major sporting event/game/team that I mentioned liking earlier in my profile.” This took the “thinking” off of the guy’s part.

    5. … and don’t be afraid to try other sites/apps, too. I can’t tell if people are still using OKC as much.

      1. I signed up because it’s free. I’m not sure I’m willing to pay to be rejected by men!

        1. a lot of s!tes have a free period like around the holidays, maybe labor day, so you should keep your eyes peeled for that. another thing, as a woman, is that even if though i always offered to pay for drinks/dinner, i never did, so figure you pay $30/month(?) it is a wash when you get free drinks or dinner. i found paying ones to be better selection of guys.

        2. Ha! Fair, but my friend, you must change your attitude: you’re paying for the privilege of rejecting *them.* (I’m kidding! Kind of. But the point is to meet guys, not to find the least unacceptable man who will tolerate you).

        3. I’d try Bumble–it seems to have the highest concentration of well educated, decent looking, seemingly sane men right now. I think most people have moved on from OKC, and NO ONE uses Match or eHarmony really anymore. If you’re among the higher ed crowd, try the League. There’s no need to be paying for dating sites anymore.

    6. Met my husband via OKC :)
      My tips: be yourself in your profile, but have a friend read it over; post a good cover photo, and use the tools on there- I liked their questions and always read the answers for people I went out with, a lot more was revealed there than in profiles.

  9. One of my coworkers chews gum constantly, and she smacks really loudly with her mouth open, including during meetings, at her desk, literally all the time. Am I just super anal, or is this not the most professional thing? It drives me nuts.

    2. There is actually a genetic/inherited trait that makes some people more irritated by chewing/smacking mouth sounds. It’s true, and I really laughed when I read about it. It runs in my family!

      1. Misphonia. It triggers a visceral disgust response by normal mouth-smaking/eating sounds. Nails on a chalkboard level.

        But more-than-normal smacking mouth sounds really aren’t professional when eating food, so I don’t think it would be professional at your desk either.

        1. My husband has this. We can eat together, but if I’m eating alone (he’s not hungry, for example), I need to go into another room because he can’t handle it otherwise.

          1. I often have to leave the room when eating holiday dinners with my family because I get SO RAGEY. My father and sister are loud chewers and I can’t take it.

          2. Mine has it too! We eat with the TV on and never at the dining room table unless we have company over, and then we turn on music. Eating lunch at a nursing home one time almost made him pass out.

        2. Haha! I must have this. I have a boss who smacks his lips while chewing with his mouth open and talking, and I actually scolded him about it a couple of weeks ago. I couldn’t help myself – so gross.

  10. I could use a new hobby…and I could REALLY use a boyfriend. I’m online dating but kind of hate it and have usually met previous boyfriends through friends or shared activities. I’ve taken and enjoyed many varied hobby classes (foreign languages/art/music/dance/cooking), but apparently my tastes are kind of girly because my classmates have always been mostly or totally other women.

    So I’m looking for advice about a course, activity, or meetup where I’m more likely to meet men in my target market (haha)…which is really smart men in their 30s or 40s in NYC. My dream guy is a sweet brilliant professor with chalk dust on his shirt.

    Thanks for any suggestions for activities to look into…the more specific, the better! I don’t want to join a sports league but am game for about anything else, academic or more casual/fun.

    Or maybe you have tips on how to infiltrate the social functions at university math departments around NYC. I’ll take those, too. ;)

    1. Haaa… my husband is a math professor and I have so many sweet, nerdy, single guys I could introduce you to. None in NYC though. :(
      In all seriousness, a lot of universities have lectures that are open to the public and aimed at a general audience. You could try attending some of those.

      1. Aww, man…so close and yet so far! Well, if your husband starts collaborating with any single NYC-based mathematicians, let me know. :)

      2. Any of them in LA? There is a large group of sweet, single, nerdy women here who’d love to meet them. :-)

    2. Improv comedy classes at UCB, Magnet or the PIT. Even if you don’t aspire to be a comedian, you can bolster your presentation skills at work greatly! The lower level classes (101, 201) attract a wide variety of people.

      1. Yes, this. It attracts smart people who want to laugh and have fun. (and also the man-child actor wannabe, but you can spot those at 1000 paces.)

      2. Cool idea that I wouldn’t have thought of, and my presentation skills are definitely something I want and need to work on for career purposes. Thanks!

      3. Yes, improv! I met so many guys through improv. I didn’t take classes with that intention, but now that I’m thinking about it, I think I dated more men that I met through improv than any other activity, including possibly work or school. There are a lot of smart funny men in improv classes and on teams, though in my experience they tended to skew younger, with the majority of men in their 20s. I was in my 20s at the time, so it was the perfect pool for me.

    3. Volunteer to tutor students. I forget the name but there is an org that does weekend tutoring that dude join.

      Also though Bumble. I see so many sweet nerdy professorial Brooklyn bearded guys on there.

      1. Yes, I am in Brooklyn and that’s totally my type. I need to be better about Bumbling regularly, I guess. I initiate conversations but they tend to fizzle out.

    4. Go to guest lectures? They’re often open to the public and lots of staff attend because they like to hear experts speak. Last time I went to a (fantastic) guest lecture there were lots or people in their 30s with degrees.

    5. Do you have any board game cafes/lounges in NYC? (I’m sure you must, it’s NYC.) That might be a good place for people on the nerdier side and it’s fun playing games.

      1. Compleat Strategist on 33rd Street does board games. If you’re into painting minatures then playing a game with them, Games Workshop on 8th Street in the Village.

      4. I’ve gone on dates with board game fanatics, and they tend to be…geekier rather than nerdier, if that distinction even makes sense outside my head. But I do like board games myself and it’s worth a try. Thanks.

        1. That makes absolute sense to me! I say, having gone to play board games on Tuesday with the end result of being asked to go hunt Pokemon with someone XD (I might go if our schedules match anytime soon)

    8. Ooh, I thought of another. Have you looked into the classes at Brooklyn Brainery? Many are one-night lectures but some are a series of classes. They are academic but fun and low-key at the same time.

      1. I’ve done a couple, but apparently I pick girly ones and end up with all-female classes. Which is fine if you’re just doing it for the hobby (which I’ve done in the past). Not as useful if you want to meet men. :)

    9. Would you enjoy rock climbing? Lots of physics/math professors, engineers, and computer people at my gym. I haven’t been to Brooklyn Boulders, but it’s the big gym in Brooklyn and might be a good place to climb regularly if you find you enjoy it.

        1. That amuses me so much. I didn’t know that stereotype, but when I used to know guys who were climbers it was when we were all science Ph.D. students in Boston. They were all tall, good looking and in shape too. They also frequently played ultimate frisbee. So maybe that’s another activity to meet that type?

          1. Well, to be fair, I do know some climbers that are stoners and wanna-be dirt-baggers too. The ones I hang around most though are predominantly engineers, and a number have advanced degrees beyond undergrad.

      2. Aha! I live close to Brooklyn Boulders. I’d try it! But do you actually meet people doing it, or is it a more solitary activity? I’m in the middle between outgoing and reserved…happy to talk to people, but not one of those ultra-friendly people who can/will strike up a conversation with anyone anywhere.

        1. I’ve met a ton of people. Routes are like puzzles, and people like to talk about how to solve them. Over time you get to know people.

          1. I’ve met a ton of people. Routes are like puzzles, and people like to talk about how to solve them. Over time you get to know people.

        2. Go with a friend and take the belay class to get started, then you keep going with friends or you can boulder and/or make small talk with other people or ask around or post messages on a bulletin board (if they have one) for a belay partner. I actually do talk to a lot of random people there and have belayed for random cute guys. It’s easy to strike up conversations because you can just talk about climbing and get advice and all that stuff.

  11. I dread rejecting men after first/second dates, and have more than once just ignored a follow-up invitation text instead of writing back and saying I’m not interested. I tend to worry that I should be giving them another chance even though I’m not excited about the idea of seeing them again, and I hate doing things that disappoint people…so I end up agonizing over it but ultimately doing nothing and thus acting like a jerk. Any advice about how to reframe the situation and stop tying myself into knots?

    1. Would you want someone to just ghost out of your life without a courtesy text? You know you’re acting like a jerk so stop acting like a jerk. Just say thanks, I enjoyed our time together but I’m not interested in another date, take care and best of luck.

      1. This. It’s so rude. Just come with a basic script and copy and paste that every time you go out with someone and aren’t interested in seeing them again. It’s not that hard to be a decent person.

        1. I agree. I have heard so many women complain when men do this to them. We should be holding ourselves to the same standard.

          Here is the script I use, feel free to use it. “Hi _______, Thanks again for meeting me the other night. While I enjoyed meeting you, I don’t see this going anywhere romantic. I wish you the best of luck on your search!”

          Copy it, save it to notes, use it.

      2. I don’t consider not following up on a request for a second date (or even third) to be ghosting. It’s not. Ghosting is when you’ve gone out with someone several times, continue to talk to them, clearly express interest, maybe been physical, and then disappear. Not responding to a request for a second date is simply not going out with someone again. If I go on one date with you, you’re not “in my life.” I truly don’t think that it’s rude or makes me not a “decent person” to simply let a text go rather than say “sorry I didn’t like you.” How is that any better for the recipient?

        I could have written OP’s post. I’ve done both the ignore and the “i enjoyed meeting with you but I’m not interested in another date/ didn’t feel a connection, best to you.” I’ve never gotten a positive response after doing the latter. Usually I get some snarky response (“well, I didn’t really thing we had a connection either but wanted to give you one more chance”) or chewed out in some way. No one has ever ever said “thanks for letting me know! take care!”

        It’s only been once or twice that I’ve gotten a bad reaction to silence. People generally just get it and don’t follow up after you don’t respond to their first text. It’s the ones that text over and over again that get mad when you don’t respond. Usually the only people who insist that you’re a sh*tty person if you don’t send a text to every dude who asks you out again are the people who have been coupled for years and haven’t dealt with online dating.

        1. So, as a general rule, I think it’s best to be honest and direct.

          But – I think if you’re going to go the “thanks but no thanks” route, you have to be super-careful about how you word it. I’ve gotten one or two gracious responses and more snarky “I HAVE TO HAVE THE LAST WORD”-type responses. Maybe I only date jerks.

          Also, at least one guy (who did get a thanks-but-no-thanks text) told me guys are used to silence and you don’t have to respond to them after 1-2 dates. So, he’s not representative of all guys, but I’m not sure they’re as bothered by the non-response as women (not all women) stereotypically are.

      3. This.

        Every time I’ve sent a “It was really nice meeting you but I don’t think there’s a connection here. Good luck out there!” type text I’ve either gotten no response, or a polite, “Thanks, good luck to you too.” type response. So if you’re nervous that the guy is going to be a jerk in response to a thanks-but-n0-thanks text, I don’t think you have any reason to be. And if he is, save the texts and show them to your girlfriends over drinks, and y’all can commiserate over what a jerk he is.

        Not responding is considerably more disappointing than just being honest, and I think you know it or you wouldn’t agonize.

        1. Same. I’ve always had positive reactions to my honest text. Most guys thank me for being honest. Men are people with feelings too.

        2. This has been my experience for the most part as well. Just woman up and say goodbye.

    2. I don’t think there is anything wrong with ghosting after 1 or 2 dates. I do it, guys do it to me.

      1. +1 Ghosting implies the expectation of a response based on a previously established relationship. You do not have that level of relationship and expectation after a couple dates. 3 months of dating, sure, but not 2 weeks.

        All ghosting is non-responsive behavior, but not all non-responsive behavior is ghosting.

      2. Agreed. I ghost after 1-2 dates. If there’s been a third date, a courtesy text is appropriate.

      3. This, Mainly because you in fact don’t have enough information on the person to send anything more than a form text or message.

        Now there’s a sweet spot where ghosting becomes rude, but 1-2 dates isn’t it.

      4. This was the norm when I was online dating. I did it to a couple of guys, a couple of guys did it to me. Maybe we’re all a**holes, and I do agree that in a perfect world everyone would send a courtesy “Thanks but no thanks” text, but this is not something I would spend a lot of time tying yourself in knots over.

      5. +1 – I don’t think it’s ghosting to do so after a date or two unless there was something special going on…

    3. Know that after you send a courtesy text you are not obligated to answer any further communications from them. So you don’t have to worry that you’ll have to argue about seeing them again, or fear that they’ll convince you go out again. You won’t feel like a jerk for ghosting, and you won’t worry about encouraging further interaction.

    4. Ghosting is just rude. As already suggested, just suck it up and send a quick text. If you’re agonizing after the first date, accept the second date and see how you feel then.

    5. I think there’s a happy medium between ghosting and the aforementioned courtesy text. When they text you to ask you for the third date, I think you can respond and decline the date without emphasizing that you don’t want to see them again EVER. If they keep asking, and you have to keep declining, then you might mention that you enjoyed meeting him but don’t see it going further. But I don’t think you have to do that immediately– they often get the hint after a declination or two and can still save face without the “I’m not into you” text.

    6. I usually say something along the lines of “I’m sorry, I didn’t feel a romantic connection” or ” I don’t think we would be compatible”. I would only say this if they asked me out on a second date. Usually they just accept that and move on. It’s only one date so there’s nothing to get upset about. Don’t worry about it.

  12. I advocated for myself at work, but by way of doing that someone else in my office is now in trouble. I knew going in that he would get in trouble, but I had to put myself first. He confronted me, and I held my ground. Now, this former work friend is cold as stone to me. Tell me this will pass/it doesn’t matter/it’s not about feelings. Because I’m Team No Emotions/It’s Business 99.99% of the time, but this is hard.

    1. You did the right thing! Head up, shoulder’s back, this is HIS problem not yours. Your responsibility is to Team You, not to this person.

      1. +1. Also, I have a job in which I have to do things like this all the time (think compliance) and one thing that helps me is to imagine the alternative: I get to stay buddy-buddy with the person, but I know something problematic is going on and I’m playing dumb– at the risk of my company and my own job and credibility. Not worth it.

    2. There’s a big difference between throwing someone under the bus and telling the truth. The former is not cool, the latter is just business.

      For example, if I give a first year a research assignment and don’t check her work, then use that research to advise a client and my advice turns out to be wrong, that’s on me. It was my responsibility to appropriately supervise the first year and I didn’t do that. Telling the client that the information came to the first year would be throwing her under the bus and totally not cool (and likely to lose me a client). But let’s say partner gives me and a peer associate a 2-part assignment. I do A, she does B, and B ends up being wrong. I can tell partner I only did A with a clear conscience. That’s not throwing other associate under the bus, that’s just telling the truth about who was responsible for what.

      1. Thanks for this. Your distinction makes me feel even more strongly that this was all fact based and not a ‘throw under the bus’.

  13. Thanks for the recommendation for Munchery! I tried it this week and really like it. Much better than ordering GrubHub.

  14. I am entitled to government maternity benefits at $537 per week – which after tax is 1/4 to 1/3 of my regular income. My firm does not offer a top up. My husband earns considerably less than I do, so government parental benefits will about 1/2 of his regular income. He will take most of the parental leave we’ve entitled to through the government program, but there are 15 weeks that only a birth mother can take so I was planning to take them.

    We recently bought a lovely family home that will close while my husband is on parental leave. Money will be tight and we need to continue to save as much as we can to round out our down payment and closings costs before the close. For that reason, I’m now thinking I need to get back to earning my regular income as soon as possible. I am trying to decide between taking 8 weeks and taking 12 weeks. Can anyone provide any advice based on their experiences or those in their office? I’m in litigation, and don’t have many peers who have had children yet.

      1. 100% agreed. I did not feel ready at 8 weeks. Not simply from a “can’t leave my baby yet” feeling. Your LO will go through so many growth spurts in the first 8 weeks. For me, I started to feel more human at around the 2 month mark.

    2. Take 12 weeks. Cut everything from the budget you have to in order to make it work. You’ll never get this time back with your baby. You have the rest of your life to earn money.

    3. Uncomplicated v-birth- I wasn’t ready at 8 weeks, was ready to go back at 10 weeks, actually went back at 13 weeks. Can you split the difference and go back at 9-10? 8 is doable, but you really won’t know how you feel until you get there.

      1. Agreed. Before I had a baby I felt that all of the maternity leave focus was on time spent with baby. Which, of course, is important and was very important to me. So much so that I took 14 weeks all unpaid at a time when we could really have used the money. But what I think gets lost in the discussion and planning is that you are recovering from something major and the leave is there to help you physically recover (and perhaps also emotionally and mentally). I had an uncomplicated birth but would not have been physically ready at 8 weeks. Perhaps at 10 weeks. I would recommend 12 or maybe 10 part time.

    4. I was pretty committed to taking 12 weeks but due to a family emergency and complicating circumstances went back early at 10 1/2 weeks and it was fine. I love spending time with my baby but did not love maternity leave and found that I really enjoyed being back at work. If I had gone back at 12 weeks I would have started full time on a Monday, but going back at 10 1/2 I was able to go back on a Thursday and work two shorter days (which I didn’t think would make much of a difference but actually made a huge difference). Can you split the difference at go back at 10 weeks and maybe do a half week?

      1. This was going to be my advice too – ramp up at 10 weeks for half days or 3 day weeks, to go full time at 12 weeks. Your husband could similarly ramp down, or you could have a week or two overlap with him (if that’s allowed)

        1. Working PT complicates things with the government benefits, which are not the easiest the navigate in the first place, so we’re not even going to try to do that, although it is definitely a nice idea.

          1. Do two full days on a Thursday and Friday then at 10 weeks. Still easier than starting with a full week on a Monday.

    5. As a counterpoint, I took 10 weeks and was dying to come back, even without financial pressure. Days at home with an infant are so long and so lonely. I would just count the hours until my husband came home.

      2. Yes, because I’m not taking a year off (which is common in my country), my firm won’t hire a contract replacement for me, so I will need to organize my calendar and deadlines in advance, and then arrange coverage for projects/files that can’t be kept on ice while I’m away. I can’t imagine just leaving and then coming back whenever I feel like it.

        1. If your husband is on board and you trust him as a co-parent, I think you can make 8 weeks work if you need to. It’s really early, but then again so is 12 weeks. Knowing you’re leaving baby with baby’s father vs. an unrelated caregiver will provide you some comfort… but know that your hormones could still be all over the place, you could still be bleeding and sitting may still be uncomfortable, if you br3ast feed your b**bs won’t really be regulated yet… in sum, if you feel remotely normal by 8 weeks you’ll be in the minority of moms.

        2. Take 12 weeks. You could have a difficult birth or a colicky baby or trouble breastfeeding or love being home so much that you can’t imagine going back to work early.

          If you’re Canadian – you can’t work while collecting maternity benefits (because they are tied to birth mother and physical wellness) but you can earn while on parental benefits – up to 25% of your weekly benefit (so like $110/week). Your DH may be able to pick up some side work to offset the financial burden.

          1. I earn significantly more than my husband does, so as long as I’m back at work, we can pretty easily afford for him to be at home. But I’ll talk to him about it as there actually might be a side hustle brewing for him and being able to continue it through parental leave could tip the balance.

    7. I took 10 weeks, but that was pretty specific to my timing – I returned right before Christmas, where I had two short weeks to get back into the swing of things, instead of going back five days a week after the first of the year. Like Suburban, though, I was pretty ready to get back at 10 weeks. I really recommend a ramp-up.

    8. I took eight weeks then went back. We needed the income, and I was pretty ready to go back. My husband was job hunting and took over baby care until we were able to start daycare. I was so stressed about our financial situation and I don’t regret it a bit. Now my husband gets 16 weeks paid parental leave, and I still get zero beyond accumulated leave time. So I imagine I’ll be going back pretty quick if we have another. But you’d probably want to give yourself more cushion if you can.

    9. I took 8 weeks both times I gave birth, and was totally ready to come back. Both times, at around 6 weeks, I started to think 8 would be too soon, but both times when 8 rolled around, I was actually really happy to go back to the office. (I’m in-house legal.) That said, I think I’m the exception rather than the norm, and I had easy labor and delivery. So I count myself lucky.

      1. +1

        I was so ready to be back to work at 8 weeks, and it had nothing to do with finances. I could have taken 12, but the boring unproductiveness of maternity leave was driving me crazy. I know that taking care of a newborn is a full time task, and I could some days do laundry or take a walk with the baby, but it bothered me that I couldn’t make a long to-do list and cross things off of it. I used to think I wanted to quit work and be a stay at home mom, but not any more.

    10. I was planning to take 12 weeks but wound up taking nine because of finances (had flexibility to decide while on maternity leave). At the time it was a really hard decision to make and I felt like I wasn’t ready but as soon as I was settled back into work it was totally fine. Now, several years later, I do not regret the decision. I do wish we had planned better so I could’ve taken the full 12 weeks but since we found ourselves in a challenging financial situation with some unexpected bills it was almost a relief to go back and know I wouldn’t have to worry anymore about how they were going to get paid.

  15. Any hotel recommendations for a last-minute Labor Day getaway to Acadia with DH? Bonus points if I can bring my pup!

    1. West St. Hotel. Definitely bring the pup – that area is sooo dog-friendly. Dogs ok on pretty much all trails in the park, and there are tons of dog-friendly restaurants in Bar Harbor.

    2. Ha! I will be in Acadia the week after Labor Day. Because of an end of trip customer visit, I won’t be taking my pup, which makes me all sad blue faces.

      I was planning to come here for recs as it got closer, but I am going to piggy back off your post and ask for recommendations now.

      I am an avid trail runner and hiker and a vegetarian. I’d like to see about renting a S’Up while I am there also. Any suggestions for things to do and see and where to eat are greatly appreciated! I plan to do a lot of running and hiking, but want to explore other areas as well. :) TIA

      1. Food: Trenton Bridge Lobster Pound (off the island in the village of Trenton but worth the drive), Jordan Pond House, Ben & Bill’s, Jordan’s restaurant in Bar Harbor (different from the Pond House), Terrace Grille at the Bar Harbor Inn, Side St Café.

        Trails: Penobscot Mountain Trail, Gorham Mountain Trail, Bear Brook Trail up Champlain Mountain, Cadillac North Ridge trail, Great Head Trail. Driving/walking along Ocean Drive is a must too.

        1. Thank you all! Since I am a vegetarian, I won’t be eating any lobster, but I greatly appreciate all of the recommendations! :)

          I am really looking forward to this trip. I am not staying in downtown Bar Harbor, but in a little efficiency cottage near the park. I wanted to have my own kitchen to save a little money and because I expected all of the restaurants to be seafood heavy. I still want to explore and try out local places though!

          2. Oops, yeah, sorry I missed that you were veg. I would skip the lobster pound but all the other places I listed have vegetarian options. I’ve heard Café This Way is good for vegetarians, but I haven’t been there myself.

      2. You must eat at Havana. Best food ever and right on the “outskirts” of Bar Harbor. Walkable from any hotel in “downtown” Bar Harbor

        1. Second the Trenton Bridge Lobster Pound. Their lobster salad sandwich is to die for.

      3. You can rent a SUP board from Acadia SUP just off the village green in Bar Harbor. A little $$ (granted I don’t have much frame of reference, just thought it was barely any cheaper than the lessons) but they’ll give you all the supplies and help you tie it down to your car. It’s then about a 20 minute drive to the good pond locations (Echo and Long). Only a few minutes to the bay just off the sand bar, but they’re stricter on who they’ll allow to take a rental to the bay.

        For hiking, definitely do Beehive. I believe Precipice is closed most of the summer for falcon mating but could check on that. We also liked Gorham Mountain, and the Upper and Lower Hadlocks for less crowds.

        I’m coming back from an ankle injury so stuck to running on the carriage roads to avoid unstable surfaces, so can’t really say anything on the good trails for running. It did get really crowded after about 10a where I would’ve gotten frustrated trying to run around the large packs of walkers, but you may not have that problem with most kids back in school while you’re there.

        I also really recommend getting mountain bikes and riding the carriage roads. We loved riding around the trails all day with a stop at Jordan Pond House for lunch.

    3. Thank you all! I have all of your suggestions in a note on my phone for more researching :)

  16. This morning I was dressed down by my boss in front of my coworkers because I didn’t come out of my office to visit a co-worker’s wife and hold their new baby. None of the men got admonished, just me and when I pointed this out to my boss he said that men don’t like babies like women do and I was wrong. I don’t hate kids or wish them harm and I would never be hurtful (if the kid was older and wandered into my office I wouldn’t yell at them or anything like that) but I not a kid person and have no wish to be around them. I work in banking and finance in a conservative, serious office (I thought) and I was working on something that my boss asked me to complete at the time. I think it’s time I dust off my resume and see what else is out there. I’m really pissed and upset.

    1. Wait — did you say anything? Or did you sit there and take it? Why not say — sorry John I was rushing to finish the spreadsheet that YOU wanted this morning and didn’t have 15 min to spare, and I hate to break it to you but I’m not particularly a kid person.

      If anything that “cements” your dedication to the firm bc they don’t have to “suspect” that you’ll get married and pregnant and be out the door in a yr or 2 to have babies. Chances are you’ll be out the door to a better job but whatever. If you didn’t say anything — it’s on you though. Men talk back and I feel like women don’t and then get upset later when the moment has passed.

      1. I did speak up and that’s when I got told “men don’t like babies like women do and you are wrong”. After that I got shut down and he kept going and I know it sounds stupid but I didn’t want to speak up again because I was afraid I would either cry or swear at him, which I know aren’t the best reactions, but that’s how I was feeling at the time.

        1. Right — that’s when you should have said WITHOUT CRYING OR SWEARING — sorry to disappoint, but I’m not interested in kids.

          How hard is it to say one more sentence and get the last word? Even if he continues to huff and puff after that??

          1. I did say that. He kept going on and huffing and puffing.

            I’m sorry my response and emotions were not up to your standard. I can only hope that one day I will be as perfect as you are.

          2. This is unkind. I can totally empathize with feeling like you can’t say anything because you’re so mad that you’re going to cry. I tear up/get choked up when I’m really frustrated or angry.

            OP, that sounds horrible, and it sounds like you did what you could to defend yourself under the circumstances.

          3. What she said. It seems like the stabby people around here have really sharpened their knives this week.

          4. Nope. There can be negative consequences for women saying these things, especially in front of a huge group and “embarrassing” the person doing the dressing down. Of course he should be embarrassed by his conduct, but it’s pretty naive to think that women should just yell down people in positions of power over them like this.

            FWIW, I think your reaction was exactly correct–Point out why you weren’t there and then drop it when the conversation continues. Maybe pick it up later if you want, or go to HR, or just find another job. It’s not each individual woman’s responsibility to have a talk with their bosses about this stuff, especially when it seems unlikely to change anyone’s mind. The OP has the best read on how that conversation would work.

          5. This is really really hard to do in the moment when you are rightfully upset. Really hard. Give her a break.

          6. “How hard is it to say one more sentence and get the last word? Even if he continues to huff and puff after that?? How hard is it to say one more sentence and get the last word? Even if he continues to huff and puff after that??”

            Oh please, what planet do you live on? Most people, utterly justifiably, have a hard time “getting the last word” when it means arguing with your BOSS who has the power to fire you. Or, they simply opt not to because they enjoy receiving paychecks. FFS. Based on your follow up posts, you seem like a pretty wretched person. Or just a troll. Please seek help to resolve why you feel the need to brow beat and harass other people who are going through something upsetting.

        2. No need to be up to my standard, but if you could handle yourself you wouldn’t be whining about this on a website and getting choked up bc an old man was huffing and puffing.

          1. My apologies for venting on your website. I didn’t realize I wasn’t allowed to, even though others do. You really should be more clear about what is acceptable in the future. It won’t happen again ma’am.

            I also apologize for being a former foster kid who is in therapy after suffering abuse at the hands of more than one authority figure in my life. Obviously it is no excuse for my horrid behavior venting here. I’ll smarten up from now on and forget the abuse so as not to get choked up ever again. Thank you so much for setting me straight.

          2. Oh please. First, Anon, your comments haven’t even made sense – how bout you work on that reading comprehension. OP said originally that she pointed out that the guy hadn’t said anything to the male coworkers. The guy then went on a sexist rant. OP didn’t say anything else because, frankly, she didn’t have to. The guy’s abhorrent comments speak for themselves. In a professional environment, letting someone else look like an @ss all on his own is better than making some snappy comeback that will only make you look like an @ss too. Second, being yelled at in front of a group of people is enough to make anyway feel choked up. OP had a normal, human response to a very stressful situation. She handled herself perfectly appropriately.

          3. Seriously, your level of animosity to a poster who obviously was treated unfairly by her employer is kind of shocking.

    2. Sorry, that’s awful, particularly the comment about “men don’t like babies like women do.” I would definitely start looking elsewhere.

    4. I don’t think it’s “that” odd for an older boss to say something like that — they have no filter and traditional gender roles in mind. And yet at every job I’ve had from day 1 people have realized about me that I’m not the sensitive type who’ll coo over babies or be interested in throwing your office wedding shower or whatever so I’m not even asked, while other females are; people realize that if it’s a sensitive/emotional topic, I am not your gal though I’m not suggesting that I act like a man either. Forgetting this incident — think about how you’re projecting yourself. You won’t change the impression of these particular guys, but it’s something to consider in future jobs.

      1. No, it’s not odd, but it’s still unacceptable. The micro problem is that he publicly criticized her; the macro problem is that she works for a man who obviously believes women have a larger role in the home. That absolutely translates into the workplace and consequently into his treatment of female employees. OP, are you aware if you are paid fairly at this workplace? I am willing to bet the men make more than you. And I would leave.

    5. Ask a Manager has a letter this morning about someone asking if they need to come out specially to address children or hold babies. Your boss is a Grade A jerk, and I hope others heard the gist of the argument (or asked you) and feel similarly outraged.

    6. Ha when kids wander into my office I stare at them coldly until they go away or start crying and their parent comes to get them. Kids don’t belong in the office. If for whatever reason you need to bring them with you while you’re picking something up to work from home, then keep the kid by your side. Don’t let it run around being a nuisance to people who are trying to work.

      This is especially annoying because only men ever bring their kids into the office. It’s such a statement on male privilege. Women have to have 14 types of backup care or they’re on the “mommy track.” But men let their kids treat the office like a freaking playground and no one bats an eye.

      1. Depends on where you work. In my office women bring in babies to show them off all the time — and I’m not talking admin assistants (who’d be looked down upon for that sort of thing), I’m talking female partners. It’s weird. It’s like they need to show us their life outside of work to prove they have one — while I’m thinking — I really don’t care what you do outside of work.

        1. These two comments are creepy. Sometimes you have to bring your kid inside the office for a minute. A child is neither an “it” nor a “nuisance.” If you can’t handle a kid being in the same space as you for five minutes, you should work on your ability to focus. No one is bringing their kid to the office to prove to you that they have one. They are bringing them because 1) the daycare closed early or the kid has the sniffles and had to leave, or 2) they like both their kid and their coworkers and wanted them to come say hello. I’m willing to bet you’re not one of the coworkers they like.

          1. Chill — you need to Chill. One of the female partners who does this is one of my closest friends at work — and she does know I’m not a kid person and that I think it’s unnecessary for her kids to be around. Bring them in once in infancy — fine. But her kids are literally in the office once a month for no good reason; they don’t spend the day but her husband brings them in to see mom for 30 min and then the whole office coos over a 6 yr old and 3 yr old who are well past the cute baby stage. Honestly I don’t like it large part bc my firm has a very “class based’ culture — i.e. partners are the most important; associates next; admin staff invisible. So I don’t love the fact that bc she’s a well liked partner, her kids are doted over. Yet if she were an admin, her kids would be ignored and people would be talking behind her back about how she needs better childcare and no one needs to see her kids so much.

            For reasons like that — I think it’s best that NO kids be in the office.

          2. But that’s not what you said. You said she is bringing them in to prove she has kids. She’s obviously not doing that– she’s bringing them in because she wants to see them. She’s a partner, and she has earned that.

            You said “I really don’t care what you do outside of work” and then claimed that she is one of your closest friends at work. Those concepts are mutually exclusive. It’s not as if you are saying you don’t care about her knitting class.

            Now you want to blame it on some weird caste system in your office where admin’s kids are ignored and hers are lauded because she’s a partner. But that wasn’t your original problem with it– your original problem is people bring “babies to show them off” (though then you corrected yourself to say the kids are 6 and 3). You complained about showing off babies and then said bringing them “once in infancy” is “fine. The bottom line is that it’s not up to you if someone brings their kid to the office. Sometimes it is necessary, and even if not necessary, a partner has earned the right to bring their kid by their office if they want to.

          3. Oh hell no re: kid has the sniffles. If your kid is too sick to be in school/daycare then they’re too sick to be in the office. You, the employee who actually has a right to be in the office, should not run around contaminating the office when you’re sick. You definitely do not bring in a tiny germ machine who has no business being there anyway.

    7. This makes me incredibly rage-y. I’m just so sick of trying to navigate the murky waters of how exist as a woman. I swear, if you’d cooed over this baby someone would have accused you of being less than professional or you’d wonder if you committed a NGDGTCO sin. Its never enough. We’re competent and professional, we stand our ground but never get emotional, we agonize over when to wear pantyhose so as not to offend someone. Now we’re going to need some sort of primer on exactly how much to fawn over infant children so as to be seen as professionally warm, but not too maternal. I’m just so done with this.

      1. Yaaassss. OP, I feel for you. I work in that kind of office, but thank gawd no one has ever called me on the carpet for not cooing over a baby. Also, hopefully your male colleagues think your boss is an idiot. Ya’ll are going to be running the show in a few years, and your boss will be retired.

        This is terrible and ageist but I find solace in the fact that my old white male colleagues will very soon be unable to feed and clothe themselves. Don’t let ’em get you down.

      3. Serious, WTF. OP, this is a stupid situation and I’m sorry you’re going through this. Also, what a clusterf9ck of a thread. It’s okay to bring babies into the office AND it’s okay not to like them. Get a grip people.

    8. Sorry this happened to you! I’ve been in somewhat similar circumstances, and I’ll go ahead and offer a slightly different perspective.

      I’ve never been the sort that will go coo over the babies or the kids. When I go to work, I generally just want to do my work. In my case, it’s not that I’m not a kid person — I am. For me, it’s more about not being comfortable with the “small talk” involved in spending time chit chatting with someone I don’t know too well, and just not liking the disruption of kids.

      So I completely sympathize with you. That being said, one of the things I’ve learned about myself is that sometimes I have to break out of my shell and do things around the office that I don’t really want to do. Going to hold the baby is in that category, as are most office parties and even a lot of co-worker lunches. They are things that I don’t usually want to do, but they are sort of unspoken job requirements. Well, maybe not “requirements” but more the things that I should do even though I don’t want to.

      I agree that pretty much anytime someone — particularly a boss — compares men and women, it’s unacceptable.

      If I was you, I’d give myself the rest of the day to wallow a bit — my feelings would be hurt by what happened. Then think about how you want to deal with this: (1) put it in the past and forge ahead, (2) look for new work, (3) talk to your boss later, alone, about how berating you in public is not okay and that he should re-think his ideas about women, (4) etc.

      Regardless, I would think the next time someone brings a baby in, you might want to think about whether you should spend a few minutes saying hi. You certainly don’t have to, and you certainly shouldn’t be berated if you don’t. But you might decide that giving up a few minutes of your day will be worthwhile in other respects.

    9. I would leave for the primary reason that your boss seems to think it is relevant to your gender and job performance that you come hold a baby.

      Kids in office – I am neutral on kids in office – yes anyone’s kids, partner or admin assistant – as long as they do not disrupt work (so a 6 week old yes, a 6 year old…depends on the 6 year old.)

    10. Ugh! This makes my blood boil. My mouth actually dropped open when I was reading it. For the record, I think your response was appropriate and he was way out of line. Unfortunately you need to think about your job in situations like that and can’t respond the way you would actually like to. Even if you plan on finding another job- most people can’t afford to completely blow up at their boss and risk getting fired on the spot or quitting on the spot) and even if you do it “professionally” your boss will still likely view it as an attack on him and hold it against you.
      I actually had to tell my (male) Managing Partner to stop interrupting me this morning… and had to bite my tongue to keep from saying anything else. He was LIVID that I asked him to stop interrupting me and then spent 5 minutes yelling at me about why it was doing it. I just let him go and sat there until he was completely done before saying, “Okay, I’ll start again from the beginning…” But he stopped interrupting after that. ;)

    12. I’m sorry this happened. If it helps, I had it come up in a performance review that I wasn’t “welcoming” to coworkers’ children. (A number of people would — against the employee handbook — bring kids in on days they didn’t have school (i.e., as their child care plan), or in the evenings if they had to work late. Evidently when one kid asked if I had any highlighters she could have and I said no, she complained to mom who complained to boss.)

      I was livid and asked if being welcoming to coworkers’ children was a job requirement and, if so, if it was consistent with the company’s mission. I also asked if there were other parts of the handbook that didn’t actually apply. My boss looked at me blankly and I said it was in the handbook specifically that we couldn’t have children there. Then — and this was the best part — I (with hands shaking) played for him the audio tape I had sent my husband of the chaos one day when the kids were out of school and two of them were (unsupervised) pounding on the copy machine by my office. Then I asked if he would like a copy of it. He said no.

      From my review, I went straight to HR and a woman I knew who didn’t have children. I told her the whole saga, and played her the tape. An email went out that afternoon reiterating no kids in the office. I thought it was over. Boss told everyone I was the one who told on them, and I quit within 6 months.

  17. How to respond — a friend’s parent passed away after a sudden illness earlier this yr. I was in touch with her throughout and tried to offer support (via email as her parents live on the opposite coast). So now this fall they’re doing a memorial type of event for him — in their hometown in Seattle. Just got an invite in the mail. Obviously a courtesy invite as I doubt they expect friends from NYC to fly to Seattle, but how do I respond. I don’t think there’s an rsvp or anything, but I feel like I should reach out to her and acknowledge the invite. Yet saying — thanks for the invite, I’ll be in NYC that weekend though! – sounds insensitive and like I’m turning down an invite to watch college football at their house or something.

    What to say?

    1. Are they religious? In those kinds of situations, it can be nice to send a mass card or, if not, make a donation in their parent’s name and send a condolence card.

      I’m sure she doesn’t expect you to show up, but a memorial service can make everything feel very fresh, so another condolence message or flowers (or food) can be a big help.

      1. So do I say anything to her? Or literally just make a donation to their charity of choice and never say one word about the invite?

        1. I think if you make the donation, you can send her a card with the donation notification with a handwritten note saying how sorry you are.

          I would also call and just say you’re so sorry, but you cannot be there (no explanation necessary), but genuinely offer any help she may need (late night phone calls to vent, for example).

          1. absolutely. A mass card or enrollment in perpetual adoration allows you to provide them with the card about it and, combined with a personal note, she knows you care. ANything you can send to her to take with her to the memorial might be good as well. It will be cold etc. in Seattle that time of year, so maybe something comforting? If you’re really close and can send an item of clothing that’s soft etc. would be good, or a cocoon sort of thing for the flight(s). You know what soothes her, right?

        2. I don’t think you have to say anything to her about it– maybe the week of the service you can text her and say you’ll be thinking of her family this week. She doesn’t expect you to attend. You can send flowers or a donation. You could also tell her you’d like to have some food delivered for the family that will be in town for the service and ask if there’s a particular day that would be best to have food on hand. The delivery will also imply that you won’t be there (and she already doesn’t expect you to be, anyway).

        3. Could you say something like “thanks for letting me know. I’ll be thinking about you on that day” or something like that?

        4. I would say, ‘Thank you so much for thinking of me, unfortnately, I’m not going to be able to make it but you will all be very much in my thoughts.’

          Then remember the date and provide long distance support on the actual day of the event. In this situation, I send flowers/donation and a physical card.

    2. Could you go? Obviously if you can’t afford it or you have another commitment that weekend you can politely decline, but if it’s financially doable I think it would mean a lot to your friend. I would fly to Seattle from NYC for a good friend’s wedding and I think a parent’s funeral is kind of on the same level in terms of significance.

      1. +1 When one of my parents passed suddenly, I thought my friends would travel to come to the funeral. None of them did from out of town. It was actually really hard–you can’t demand that people come, of course, but it would have meant a lot.

    3. My mom passed away earlier this year. Absolutely say something to her. She will appreciate your continued support and will understand if you cannot make it.

      1. Right — so WHAT DO I SAY?? That doesn’t sound totally casual like I’m unavailable for a BBQ?

        1. I’m so sorry and I know that this puts your dad out of his suffering, yet you miss him and long for him. If there’s something I can do for you before you go or for you to have on hand there, or ready for you when you get home, let me know. (insert personal suggestions here if you have any) You know I have great mail order skills. My heart aches for you, my dear friend.

          1. Not the OP — Wow — this brought tears to my eyes. The last line — excellent.

          2. I’d nix the part about “Putting him out of his suffering”, especially since it was a brief illness.

        2. “FRIEND, I just got the notice about the memorial service on X date. I’m so sorry I won’t be able to make it that day to be with you and your family; your dad/mom was a wonderful person. Please know I’ll be thinking of you. If you need to talk or anything, please don’t hesitate to give me a call”

          Then send flowers or make a donation.

        3. How about focusing on supporting her for the event? Call, don’t text. Tell her you got the card and are thinking of her. How is she doing? And then listen. At the end mention how much you’re sorry you can’t be there.

        4. How are you as an adult lacking for things to say when a friends parent has passed? Is this not obvious? Do you want us to write you a script? Sheesh

          1. Oh for goodness sakes.

            A lot of people do not know how to handle a friend’s parent’s passing…plenty of people stress about not knowing what to say. That doesn’t make them a bad person, or less of an adult. Death and grief and empathy is hard and complicated.

          2. Unfortunately, it is not. The more common response is silence because “I didn’t know what to say….”

            Almost no one acknowledged my mother’s death, which was a terrible time. In fact, when I emailed a friend to tell her, she didn’t contact me again for 3 years.

            Several people ghosted me, actually.

            I don’t have a great view of people these days, actually.

    4. I’d say something (via greeting card/your own stationary) like: Susan, I’m sorry I will not be able to attend your father’s memorial, but I will be thinking of you [or praying for you, if that’s your bag] and your family that day. Since his death, I’ve often thought of his [positive feature]. Do you remember the time that [a funny/sweet story about her dad]? It’s a big loss, and I’m so sorry you and your family are dealing with it. After you return, I’d love to take you out for a coffee/drink/dinner. I’ll call you.

  18. I’m looking for other Internet communities/forums to join as well. Does anyone have others they really like? For me, I’m most interested in the conversations here that discuss issues in depth, share resources, and are generally supportive – and is like more places for that. The conversations I get here that aren’t as important in a new community are that are about weddings, kids, fashion, purses, big law. I’m not critiquing those topics, just saying I’m looking for something different too.

    I used to really like, for example, the PhD comics forums, but now that I’m no longer a student and they shut down I’m looking for something new. If it matters, I’m mid 30s, am an overachiever but looking for balance, no plans for kids ever. I also read ask a manager, but need something a little less work focused to help with that balance.

    What other Internet places do you like, and why?

    2. Are there online communities in your field that you could join. I also have a PhD in a science subject. I sometimes read the forums on Science magazine but that doesn’t cover things like current events or fashion, so for that I come here. You can also search on LinkedIn for groups, although again there is a heavy career slant. Alternatively, start your own forum and set the agenda and invite some friends or colleagues to join.

      1. By start your own forum I meant something on LinkedIn or another social media platform or even uising an app like Whatsapp. I have a group chat setup with some women I went to high school with where there is already a critical mass of people from a variety of fields. They are in different locations around the world, and although most times it’s light banter, there are occasions we discuss more concrete stuff. Also there’s reddit, I haven’t used it but a friend says he reads certain threads on it.

  19. Hive, I need HELP. My younger sister’s wedding is next week out of state. I’m traveling there with my mom, who is twice divorced. I’m getting divorced due to my husband’s multiple cheating and long-term unemployment.

    Before my wedding, my mom advised me NOT to get married and even told me “you’ll get bored of your husband”. She has told my sister similar comments. Mom keeps making comments to me about “I’ve warned her…look what happened to you!” I’ve told her point blank to stop, that its hurtful to me and my sister, but she then acts hurt, like “I just want what’s best for both of you! I don’t want her to make the same mistake!” I get she had expensive, painful divorces, and I get that I’m getting divorced, but that doesn’t mean my sister shouldn’t get married!

    I also feel bad for my sister. We aren’t very close due to a large age gap and living on opposite coasts, but I don’t want our mom to spoil her day.

    PLEASE, outside feedback. I’m exhausted.

    The only good thing is our dad, who is three times divorced (and on wife #4), will not be attending. We don’t have a relationship with him.

    1. Talk to your mom. Tell her that you know her comments are well-intentioned, but your sister is getting married either way. It is time to let her make her own decisions and be happy for her new family. Tell her that continuing to bring up a possible future divorce is disrespectful and has no place at a wedding. Then during the wedding, play interference. You know that mom will make these comments. Stick up for your sister, as you’ve already done, and tell your mom to stop, then redirect the conversation. If she tries to act hurt, cut her off and say, today is about sister, not you, so at least pretend to be happy for her for the next 5 hours.

      1. Yes, talk to your mom and tell her, in the strongest possible terms, that these comments are not helpful. Say, “Mom, Sister is getting married. She is not going to suddenly see the light and leave her fiance at the altar. If you really want to be supportive, keep your mouth shut and if she ends up getting divorced, help her pick up the pieces. ‘I told you so’ helped nobody, ever, so just zip it and smile and nod. And oh, by the way, how about supporting her in her marriage so she DOESN’T get divorced? Now there’s a concept…”

    2. I’m not sure exactly what you’re looking for, but my maid of honor ran “mom interference” the day of my wedding. Any time my mom looked ready to chime in with an unsolicited opinion, my maid of honor would swoop in, hand her a mimosa and distract her with something else. “How does my hair look [bride’s mom]?
      ” “Can you believe how beautiful the weather is?” It was such a relief to not have to fight with my mom on the day of my wedding and she got a trip out of it. I’d suggest you ask a trusted friend to play mom-chaperone for the day-of and minimize the amount of one-on-one time mom has with the bridge.

      1. Heh. I’m getting married in three weeks and I’m going to call myself “the bridge.”

        Also, this is great advice!

        1. Yeah. I am definitely storing that advice away to give to my sisters for my wedding day.

    3. Ugh so sorry for you. Would something like this work?

      “Mom, I know where you’re coming from. I’m not exactly psyched about marriage myself right now. I’m worried for sister, too. But let’s hope we’re wrong, ok? Let’s hope this one works out and they’re happy. And if it doesn’t? Let’s hope at least that she has a great time at her wedding. She’s so excited for the ceremony/flowers/band/cake/whatever. Let’s tell her how great it is, how much we love her and let’s smile in the pictures and dance at the reception.”

    4. During the wedding weekend, if you are up to it, run interference with your mom. Try to be around her whenever she’s with Sis, and bluntly cut off the divorce talk. “Mom, we’re focusing on happy feelings this weekend.” “Mom, now is NOT the time to discuss that.” “Mom, seriously, stop ruining Sis’s happy day.”

      Then, write your Sis a long letter. Tell her that your mom’s behavior made you realize that there’s immediate family history of divorce, but that fact has no bearing on her or her life. That you’re not bitter on marriage because of your divorce, that she shouldn’t let Mom influence her marriage, that you’ll always be on her side with no judgement if she needs to talk or vent or praise. Whatever. Just heartfelt genuine encouragement, acknowledging divorces happen but stopping short of giving advice or rehashing anyone else’s marriage. She gets to create her own marriage, and you’re willing to be on Team Her if she wants that.

      Send it after the wedding, after the honeymoon. She can take it or not, she can use it as an opening to get closer to you, or she can just take it as a weird but encouraging note. But you’ll have opened a door in case she needs someone who can talk about hurtful Mom things, or if she needs to hash through learned childhood behaviors.

      (Signed, someone whose parents have 3 divorces and 3 other failed long-term relationships between them.)

      1. OP here. I’m loving all the feedback, and I especially +1 THIS letter -great advice. Thank you.

    5. Shut your mouth. You’ve said your piece and now you are being rude and hurtful and ruining her day.

      1. This makes no sense. The mom was rude to the sister, not OP. OP is trying to ensure the sister has a stressful day.

        If you’re going to troll with rude comments – at least read the post so it’s relevant.

        1. maybe it was intended to be a suggestion for what OP should say to her mom? Makes much more sense that way.

  20. Any folks here who are NOT inclined to purchase a home (or in my case – an apartment in a HCOL city on the east coast)? Let me hear the pros and cons. I’m 35+ and am the ONLY one of my friends who hasn’t bought and isn’t looking to buy. So they make me feel like I’m a financial moron. Though I invest plenty (not just 401k), I just don’t want to invest in property (illiquid; maintenance costs; HOA etc.). My most important reason (to me) is that I just don’t feel settled AT ALL career wise and by not owning, I have the ability to pick up and move to wherever a job comes along. But the reality is — will I ever be settled? If I raise this with friends (who tend to lecture on this topic), all I hear is — rent is wasted money, you’d be building equity etc.

    I know I HAVE TO buy at some point in my life bc I don’t want to be renting in retirement — bc I don’t know how I’d handle it if rent went up a lot and my income was limited and as a 70 yr old it isn’t easy to gather up your stuff and move. But am I making a huge mistake not buying now — as opposed to say gathering up a huge down payment and buying in my 50s with a small mortgage that I could pay off by 65? Would it be a bad idea to buy a rental property — so I’d be building equity somewhere (thru my renters plus the costs that renters don’t cover) so that 30 yrs from now I could cash that property out and buy wherever I end up retiring?

    1. We rent. Both 36, Boston area. Until we know with certainty that we’re going to be in a particular city for more than 2-3 years, we’re going to keep on renting. We are very financially stable (retirement, savings, etc) but we’ll wait to throw a down payment down on the table until we know it’s for the long haul.

    2. I wanted to buy property very badly (and did) but I don’t think not buying is a bad financial decision. I think it’s the opposite for most people, if anything. People stretch to buy things they can’t really afford and end up underwater, when they would have been much better off financially just renting. Buying a property just to rent it out isn’t usually a good way to make money compared to investing in the market, especially when you consider all the work involved in being a landlord. If you don’t want to buy until retirement why not just keep saving now and buy wherever you want to retire?

    3. I bought because (1) I could get a 3-bedroom house I liked for little more than I was paying in rent for a 1-bedroom apartment (putting aside the money I spent on the down payment, my mortgage is only about $250 more than I was paying in rent), (2) I could rent it out easily and cover most (if not all) of my monthly expenses, include the cost of a management company, and (3) I bought in a city/area where I knew I could sell pretty easily if I needed to. Since I purchased 2 years ago, my property has risen by over $75k in value (based on comparable houses that have just sold) and my neighborhood is being re-developed so I expect that will increase even more in the next 2-3 years.

      All things considered, I’m glad I purchased. But I’m not going to pretend it is (a) necessary or (b) didn’t create additional stress last month when I was interviewing for an out-of-town job

    4. We rent. I love love love my apartment. And I also love that’s if something breaks (i.e. our fridge, water heater), i just call my landlord and things magically get replaced. I don’t have to worry about a roof, lawn maintenance, etc.

      I also love that if something changes and I need to move suddenly, I can get out with as little as two months’ rent; I don’t need to worry about selling a house.

    5. I don’t think you ever “have to” buy a home. Even if you own your home right out, you’ll still have expenses to pay, and renting might make more sense. You’ll be paying property taxes, home repairs, HOA fees ,if applicable, etc. I live in NYC, and the cost to buy just doesn’t make financial sense to me.

      I work in finance, so I have a detailed spreadsheet that does the cost vs buy analysis. Basically, my assumptions for growth in real estate are way lower than what the market has priced in. Also, because of the upfront costs of buying and selling, you would need to own for 7+ years to spread these costs out. Right now, I don’t want to invest more $$ than a 1 BR and I hope I’m not living in a 1BR apt for the next 10 years! It would also skew a very large percentage of my portfolio to real estate, and I would rather have a balanced portfolio. I am thinking of buying some rental property in a LCOL area to get some exposure to real estate though.

      1. Do you have any sense of what LCOL areas you’d consider buying in for the purposes of renting out? The only place I have on my list thus far is DC (which I realize isn’t LCOL but it seems like it to me compared to Manhattan and Boston) — in large part bc there are constantly more people moving into that city and in recessionary times it doesn’t take the same hit as other places due to so much of the industry being govt.

        Do people have any true low cost of living place ideas for rental properties — smaller cities that are growing?

        1. I’m looking at Davidson, NC – I have family close to there, so I figure they would be able to vet out contractors or help me in a bind with being close by.

        2. Military towns. For real, constant influx of renters. I have friends in NC near the coast living 30 minutes away from a military base with two rental homes. The profit after paying the mortgages on their rentals pays the mortgage on their primary residence. I’ve considered buying rental property there myself.

    6. We are in our early 40s and we are the only people in our circle of friends still renting. HCOL area on the east coast. We prefer not to live in any of the towns we can afford. And we prefer not to overextend ourselves to buy in a town we like. Our standards are probably too high but I refuse to spend an enormous sum of money on a house that I’m not actually happy about living in.

    8. I rent, and right now it doesn’t make sense to buy something for a variety of entirely legitimate reasons that are similar to yours. All of my friends who own houses in the suburbs wouldn’t trade places with us, but they also have said that owning a house has been far more expensive than they anticipated. As for your friends, it sounds like they’re being really overbearing and obnoxious, and I think you just need to tell them that you’re happy with renting for right now. It’s not like you ever get too old to buy property.

    9. You have to do what’s right for you. If you don’t feel inclined to buy a home, don’t and don’t let your friends make you feel badly about it. Even homes in good shape can cost a lot of money outside of the mortgage; the AC might break, you have to decorate it to look like pinterest, you don’t have time to deal with the yard so you pay someone else to do it, etc. And then there’s always wondering if it would sell for as much as you bought it for.

    10. With our first house, we made out like bandits. Got to write off the taxes, lived there 6 years with an 80k profit when we sold, and had no/minimal maintenance (about 5k and we expected it).

      Second house…ugh. We’ve been here 18 months and are over 10k in UNexpected expenses- 2k to take a tree down or homeowners would pull our ins, 2.5k in mold damage missed urging the inspection (we only found it because of reno we did), 1.5k to fix a broken chimney flu discovered as part of the 1.5k repair to the furnace when it went out, 1.5k to get bats out of the chimney this spring…and a bunch of other stuff. Dishwasher went, AC needed major work when we got it serviced, looks like we have nasty gypsy moths so will have to spray those this fall ($500). We have the cash for it, but it’s not what we were expecting with this house. We know it needs a new roof in the next 5 years.

  21. I do own a home, and even though I love the house I bought, I’m not actually sure a couple of years into ownership whether I made the right financial decision. I sank a large amount of liquidity into the house, and even though I still have a healthy emergency fund I didn’t fully appreciate how much my background level of stress would increase not having that cash on hand in case I need it.

    Also, I underestimated how much it would cost to maintain my house, and how much of my time it would take up. It’s not like it’s a dump or there’s anything super major wrong with it, but maintenance is still a large financial commitment, and it’s highly variable. Some folks were posting the other day about having the unfortunate experience of a water heater and an AC breaking in the same month. So I personally feel the need to have a larger emergency fund that I would if I were renting, because as a renter my maintenance costs are fixed and built into my rent, whereas as an owner I could end up needing tens of thousands of dollars NOW to fix things that will make my house unlivable if I don’t address them immediately.

    Basically, I don’t think your plan of continuing to rent and squirrel away funds is stupid at all, and when I’m trying to fix something by spending hours watching youtube videos and cursing, I sometimes wish I had gone that route.

  22. I agree with this, but it’s worth noting that the maintenance risks with a condo are lower. At least in the buildings I looked at, the condo board is responsible for a lot of the big ticket repair items. Some things in your unit can break, but it’s not like you need to fix a roof or replace siding or (in many buildings) repair the AC.

    1. True, but you may get a special assessment fee when those things break, so you’ll likely pay for it!

    2. At least in NYC — there are special assessments fairly frequently. So if the entire building develops an HVAC problem or termites or the roof goes, that cost goes back to all the owners in the building via special assessments. It’s not like the condo board has some other source of income besides the monthly maintenance (HOA) and special assessments being paid by owners. Is this not true in other cities?

      1. Yep. Over 9 years of condo living in Philly, we were hit with about $25,000 in special assessments. If condo hunting, you’ll want to know how recently major maintenance was done, what’s expected in the near term, what reserves the condo board maintains, how they’re used, etc.

      2. Most buildings I know of have a really big reserve usually in the tens of millions. The reserves go to big ticket items. I don’t understand how buildings in NYC don’t have reserves. What do they do with the HOA fees every month?

        1. It is very common for buildings to have poor reserves. People don’t want to pay high enough HOA fees, or the buildings are poorly managed (most people who buy condos have no idea how to manage the buildings/be on a condo board), owners stop paying their HOAs and/or condos get foreclosed on, lawsuits involving the building etc…

          I have never heard of a building with really big reserves of tens of millions.

          My building of 36 units has about 80k in reserves, and that is considered pretty good! I rent a condo here.

          I’m in Chicago.

          You clearly live in much different real estate than most of us!

          But what surprises me is how many people move into buildings with poor reserves, and have no idea what they are getting into. A lot of people don’t do much research.

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