Good Grammar Costs Nothing
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Update: We still stand by the advice below, but do check out our latest discussion of grammar rules you absolutely, seriously must know.
I've seen a lot of fun grammar roundups lately, such as The Oatmeal's breakdown of who versus whom, and this Buzzfeed roundup of grammar jokes. So I thought we'd have a little discussion: what are your biggest pet peeves when it comes to grammar (particularly with coworkers)? What are your best tips? (Pictured: I own this shirt! Good grammar costs nothing, $16 at Glarkware.)
For my $.02 — as a graduate of the Medill School of Journalism at Northwestern (my undergrad degree), I sat through so many lessons in copyediting that I still remember the different meanings of ordinance and ordnance, and the proper spelling of ophthalmologist. (Ha, I kid, WordPress's spellcheck just changed my A to an O. Fine.)
This came in handy during my Bluebook years (I went on to become executive editor of Georgetown's law review). Accordingly, I'm always, hugely, deeply embarrassed whenever I make a mistake! I definitely used grammar as a gauge with coworkers (particularly subordinates). I even remember holding my breath the first time my husband emailed me, hoping against hope that this Guy I Really Liked would not totally ruin that impression with poor spellings or some frat-brat colloquialisms (yo yo yo dawg!). I even spent some time in my mid-20s (? the thought of having this much free time boggles my mind) making up little JPGs with lessons from When Words Collide, my favorite grammar book, which I used for my Windows screensaver for a time. Such as this one, on the difference between bad and badly:
I guess the grammar lessons that I use the most are these:
- It's = It Is (otherwise, its)
- Stationery/stationary – E is for eraser, A is for action
- That/Which — If the phrase that you want to use is an essential part of the sentence, use that. If it could be a sentence of its own, use which.
I'll admit that I Google a lot too, when in doubt (particularly with word choice) — but I think being a bit of a grammar nerd and knowing that, say, there's a difference between compliment/complement, elicit/illicit, discreet/discrete, etc, is half the battle.
Readers, what are your best tips with grammar? What gaffes drive you up the wall when you see coworkers, friends, or dates make them? Which are your favorite books or blogs to brush up your grammar skills?
1) “I wish I would of” or “I wish I would’ve” — it’s “I wish I had” which is actually much shorter!
2) Misuse of “lay”, as in “I just want to go home and lay on my bed.” You want to go lay WHAT on your bed? Or do you mean you want to go home and LIE on your bed?
3) Second everyone who said “myself.” Really annoying and really common.
4) More spelling than grammar, but misspelling of colloquialisms, e.g., it’s “yeah” not “yah,” “psyched” not “siked” or even “syked”.
A few comments…
(1) I have an ex who ALWAYS confused your/you’re and to/too and its/it’s in text messages. I never found a good way to tell him he was getting it wrong — is there ever a good way to tell someone that? He was otherwise intelligent but just couldn’t seem to get it. The worst were the really, really sweet messages he would send that would end with asking if “your around later.” Totally ruined the moment.
(2) In my okcupid profile there’s a sentence where I should properly use “whom” instead of “who” but I’m worried that if I do it will seem overly pretentious/etc., so now it says (incorrectly) “who.” Do it or leave it as is?
(3) The over-correction for “I” vs. “me” bothers me more than anything else, b/c it’s usually from people who are trying to appear smart… Seems especially prevalent on episodes of the bachelor (which I am embarrassingly addicted to). “There is such an amazing connection between Sean and I.” Nails on a chalkboard.
I would have corrected the ex and probably told him some helpful little rules to remember, but that’s just me. If you do it casually and lightly, I don’t see why it should be uncomfortable. It bothered you and would have continued to bother you if you stayed together, it’s not much different than if you hated his cologne or thought that he should stop wearing socks with sandals. I also believe in the campsite rule, i.e., that you should leave people after a relationship in a better condition than when you found them. So while I wouldn’t say it on a first date, if you’re seriously dating, I’d do it.
For no. 2, I’d probably just change the sentence. This way you don’t sound pretentious and you don’t risk alienating some fellow grammar nerd love of your life.
Agree on 3. That does make it worse.
This says a lot about me, but I could not foresee a future with someone that didn’t know the difference (and was unwilling to be corrected). I’m overly snobby about grammar. I’d rather date a smoker than someone who was told again and again the difference between “less” and “fewer” but refuses to try and change.
Why?
I’m just curious. Of course it’s your prerogative to date anyone you want and decide what criteria you have for significant others, but I am curious why you would not eliminate someone who literally endangers the health of himself and others but would eliminate someone who confuses words.
Not trying to speak for Brant, but for me it comes down to this: I really love words and language and someone who didn’t care about those things would probably not care about a lot of the other things I care about. I wouldn’t write-off a guy just because he didn’t know certain words or was not the greatest speller, but I would probably have a hard time with someone who just didn’t care about those things and wasn’t curious about them, particularly if he knew that they were important to me. For some people it wouldn’t matter and opposites attract and all that, but for me, it just does. It’s like if I was really into riding horses and kept a horse and did that every single weekend and the person I was dating just thought it was stupid and pointless. This isn’t to say that someone who has poor grammar is a bad person or inferior in some way, but someone who has poor grammar and doesn’t have any desire to improve it is just not for me. I come from a large family of readers and writers and words just have a magical quality for me. By the way, there is huge difference between someone who uses words a certain way on purpose, even if that way is technically incorrect, and has a definite style vs. someone who just doesn’t think about it and doesn’t care. I am only against the thoughtless. But I also would never date someone who I didn’t find witty. It’s just my thing.
As for the smoking, people quit and if they don’t, it’s a calculated risk. The only thing I would require is that the person not smoke around our hypothetical future kids or in our future house.
It was not the reason we broke up, but it was one of the reasons that I’ve been able to convince myself our break up was for the best (most of the time… it was only a few months ago so I’m still working on it). He was a wonderful, amazing guy in so many ways and is one of the best people I’ve known (and the physical chemistry was REALLY great), but words are not his thing. As someone who writes for a living, it was a problem for me. But not enough to make me leave an amazing guy otherwise.
I am a trial lawyer. I was trained by a man who was from Iowa, and came across as very “homey” and “country boy,” and extremely sincere. He didn’t shy away from his natural country/Southern accent during trial, even in our city. Jurors found him very comforting and they trusted him. He didn’t lose trials very often.
I have found that sometimes having 100% proper grammar, combined with not being from around here, leads to people thinking I am snobby.
I sometimes pepper my language on purpose with “Me and …” as the subject of a sentence. Or add in a “y’all.” Make a little more “down home.”
I think sometimes this can break down a barrier between you and the person you are talking to, like a jury.
Yeah, some of these mistakes truly are cringe-worthy, but others (particularly the pronunciation ones) are really more like talking in a different dialect than just ignorance or incorrect grammar.
Good instead of well. “I did good on that test” kills me.
But I have to say I feel pretty lucky that I haven’t seen some of the more terrible ones posted above too often! And I do have to admit that I have judged people for consistent spelling and grammar mistakes and I can’t help judging anyone who uses “u” or writes “thx” and the like, but I think we’re probably a bit of a self-selecting audience here on that front. I constantly remind people that not everyone thinks this is important.
The two rules that I’ve always found helpful are:
1) for I vs. me: get rid of the other person. If you wouldn’t say, “me went to the park” or “send it to I” then you shouldn’t say, “David and me went to the park” or “send it to David and I,” and
2) for that vs. which: you can always get rid of whiches! (Kind of like Kat’s rule but it helps me remember it and who doesn’t love witches?!)
So – can I just say that many of the mannerisms and sentence structures cited here as grammar pet-peeves are actually linguistic mannerisms that are common in low income or minority communities. So while, yes, you may “know what is correct” and be annoyed when you hear another structure – check your privilege and remember that in the communities in which the person lives and functions their usage may be entirely correct. And more so, since language is a living, changing thing, it may well be that you are simply accustomed to a more traditional usage whereas the person you’re interacting with is using a slang usage that has become adopted in the general population (not necessarily making it wrong.)
Anyway – I’m just saying. Language is a marker of privilege and we should probably all try to remember that.
Thank you, TCFKAG.
Are you two trolling for the STFU Corpor*tte Gold Star of the Week?
Yes! They’ve earned it. When members of a group deemed privileged make a big show of self-flagellation and precious awareness, THEY WIN BIG!
LOL that was funny Kris.
I get your basic point, and I agree that empathizing with someone’s background and point of view is always a good idea before applying any judgment. But I also think that your comment smacks of condescension toward folks who you think just don’t know any better or just can’t be helped.
Also, Kat’s question asked us what pet peeves we have “particularly with coworkers,” so the setting is a professional workplace, where using the slang of *any* particular community, in addition to making true grammar mistakes, will earn one the side-eye.
Well – I’m sorry if it was read that way. I don’t think the issue is that people don’t know any better or can’t be helped (and in many cases, they very well MAY “know better” – but language is a complicated mix of habit, culture, and learning and many of our mannerisms are ingrained in us at a very early age. They don’t change simply because we step into the office.)
What I was trying to say is this – I would bet that you, in your daily life, use plenty of slang or “turns of phrase” or metaphors or similes, even at work, that may twist the English language a bit. But the ones that we find jarring tend to come from communities or cultures that are different than ours – it doesn’t necessarily make it wrong. And just like if a southern person who has lived in the north for a long time finds that their accent comes back quickly when they go home, so to many people may use one type of linguistic system at home and one at work and it shouldn’t be surprising that they sometimes overlap.
The insistence that language is static and that there is only one correct form is, frankly, a way that discrimination has been perpetrated in the past and continues to be today. So I’m sorry if you think I sounded condescending – but what I was trying to say is that many of our ingrained assumptions about what is right are really just products of where we are from (you can call it privilege if you want…you don’t have to if that somehow offends you) – and when you judge people who construct language differently you are sub-conciously perpetuating very old systems of control and hierarchy.
And if this gets me on STF& Corporette I’ll be perfectly content to be there – because its actually something I care about. Though I’ve never self-flagellated in my life…it doesn’t seem like something I’d enjoy.
No she is saying you are posting this so stfu will post it and be like she is the best! good for her and her condescending post! cuz stfu is ridiculous about how white people are the worst and minorities need to be rescued from all the white privilege.
Frankly, I think its f*ing racist that you think I need to check my privilege- when you are the one who traditionally would have the privilege and I don’t. Implying that everyone on this site is white is ridiculous- I think it seems relatively diverse. and I hate the “check your privilege” like you have to come down from your high horse just to talk to a minority. Literally what you did in this post is self-flagellate yourself to get some internet high fives or plus ones, without thinking how truly snobby you sound. the whole phrase check your privilege makes me sick. I don’t need these white liberal angels “checking privilege” to defend those poor, poor people. Also language does not actually change that much. Parts of it change, but 95% is pretty static. end rant.
At the risk of being flamed, I have to post this because it’s a constant annoyance for me.
I’ll be the first to admit I’m very privileged. I live in a poor area now and I just want to wring people’s necks for using these linguistic mannerisms and for all their facebook postings that look like text messages from a 13 year old girl before predictive texting was invented. That’s not how they are being/were taught to speak or write in English class so why do people insist on using it? My stepdaughter constantly challenges my language (the use of “pretty well” instead of “pretty good” being one example) with “no one says that around here” but someday she’s going to be judged in interviews and interactions with her colleagues for that usage because people like this site’s readers will be hiring her and working with her! (There aren’t many jobs in our town so most people commute an hour or more in either direction to large cities where there is a lot of wealth, privilege, and good education).
mmmm golf clap for you! thank you for saving us poor minorities from up there on your pedestal.
Le sigh. I’m terribly sorry that what I wrote apparently was offensive to so many people. Really I was just trying to point out that language is complicated and how we learn and use it is a powerful tool in society.
But you know what – forget it. I’ll just go sit in the corner like a good little girl (whom, by the way, you know little about) and keep my mouth shut.
Wow, chillax folks. Beating people up for expressing an explicitly personal opinion, that sounds like fun.
I know your name, race, heritage, location and rough economic status. That’s enough to know you are hitting the wrong tone with your posts. I know you mean well – but this sounds so over the top condescending in print.
I really resent your response, TCFKAG. Nothing in my respectful response to your post suggests I think that because thought your point was misplaced in this context that I want you to sit in a corner and keep your mouth shut “like a good girl.” Are you serious?!
That’s an incredibly defensive response. Your comment was thoughtful and thought-provoking, but you apparently need all the thoughts that were provoked to be identical to your own, or else you’ll take you ball and go home. Grow up, lady!
Um, if you think your post was respectful, then is it possible that TCFKAG *wasn’t* actually responding to you, but to other replies that were less respectful? Especially since she actually hit the Reply button under a post that was not yours. And also that she might have a sense of humor and not be entirely serious in her response? Today has been a crazy day at my office, so maybe there’s something in the water, but I think we need a round of chill pills here, folks.
Kelly – I did reply to you in some length but its in moderation because of the name of the blog in the post. It’ll maybe come out eventually but honestly I’m sort of done with this now.
I’m with TCFKAG here.
Language changes. And the people who change it might be low-income, might be minorities, and might not be reading this site.
I think TCFKAG was just trying to point out that not everyone in the English-speaking world has the opportunity to learn what we call “proper” grammar, and that doesn’t mean their communication isn’t also valuable.
I don’t think she was meaning to condescend. And I’m pretty sure that her personal attributes don’t preclude her from trying to speak up for others.
Ugh, my boss uses a comma after “but.” Always. As in, “I wanted to take last week off but, it turns out I had sixty hours worth of meetings.”
It’s also how she speaks.
This reminds me of one of my favorite Simpsons moments:
“Contingency? No, money down!”
Video: http://vimeo.com/52752274
Pic: http://www.splittinghairs.org/simpsons-reference/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/vlcsnap-2012-11-15-17h08m49s203.png
(Found the pic via google, I have no idea what the blog it is from is about so click at your own risk.)
This reminds me of one of my favorite Simpsons moments:
“Contingency? No, money down!”
Video: http://vimeo.com/52752274
Too many pet peeves to name! Partial list:
Me/myself/I (sometimes “me” really is the correct choice!)
Use of a plural pronoun to refer to a singular noun (I know some people believe this has become acceptable; it still makes my ears bleed)
Forming a plural with an apostrophe (just today I saw an otherwise beautiful sign that said “Hero’s are everywhere.” Aaaarrrggghhh!)
That/which
Affect/effect
It’s/its
Loose/lose (I know, this is a spelling peeve, not a grammar one, but it seems everywhere!)
I’ve been known as a grammar nerd for years. ;-)
Ugh. “…seems TO BE everywhere.” That will teach me to post from my phone!
The death of the adverb. Drive slowly, not drive slow. He is doing very well, not very good. TV news reporters are the worst violators.
Embarrassed of. Isn’t it “embarrassed by?” I also see a lot of heals when people are talking about shoes, and peaks when they are talking about sneaky little looks. Not grammar, but mixing up words like that sort of drives me crazy. I guess it’s because autocorrect doesn’t usually catch those.
or yay! or nay? heard of yea, folks? first time I assumed it was a joke…
My biggest grammar pet peeve is the use of apostrophes when making a word plural.
Eg. To the Smith’s
Agggggghhhh- that’s possessive, not plural, people!
Oh! That’s also great when they mean to make a family name plural AND possessive, but instead use the singular possessive.
This isn’t about grammar, but…
The word is spelled
“whoa”
not
“woah”
or
“whoah”.
I know it shouldn’t bother me…please ignore the above if the alternate spellings have become acceptable.
;)
I can’t stand it when people use the passive voice in affidavits.
Oh there are so many:
“Here is a photo of so and so and I” – major Facebook violation
Supposably
All intensive purposes
Ask instead of asked
A whole nother
“So and so and mine’s” – this one happens on The Bachelor a lot, i.e., “Billy and mine’s relationship is a great journey.”
The last example – it’s like fingernails on a chalkboard!! Oh, and I have another. The reluctance to use possessives with gerunds. But I can’t think of a good (bad) example!
1. Alot. It’s two words, people!
2. Which brings me to it’s and its. Ouch.
3. Me, myself, and I. Please let George and I know. NO! Ick! Go away!
4. Real instead of really. This really bugs me. Really, really. Its real bad, although for whatever reason, the misuse of bad/badly doesn’t affect me as much as…
5. Effect/affect. I prefer to speak with effect rather than affect.
6. Irregardless. Its real irritating that spell check doesn’t flag that one.
7. Improper pluralization like mother-in-laws.
8. Insure/ensure. Let’s insure this doesn’t happen again. Hmm, I’m not sure that State Farm would consider insuring that.
9. The general, bizarre, and inexplicable, overuse, of, the comma, in sentences, or just, in whatever.
10. The most irritating grammatical error by far is overuse of apostrophes. I think I’ll have some more beer’s when I go visit my friends, the Smith’s.
I don’t presume to be the grammar queen but Strunk & White should be required reading.
One foul swoop – it just sounds illiterate.
You do realise that there are national differences in grammar? The distinction between that and which doesn’t apply outside of the US (though perhaps Canadians have bought into it) and non-US writers eschew the use of the word got and would rather rip their skin off than use gotten, but quite writerly Americans are happy to use both. I try to be tolerant when the emails arrive from my US colleagues but “gotten” is hard to take in business documents. I’m sure they reciprocate with gritted teeth when I ignore their that/which distinction.
I’m a USian and I would never EVER use “gotten” in business communication. I also grit my teeth when I see that/which misused.
Let me count the ways…
My boss writes this phrase often: “Touch basis” as in “We should touch basis on this next week.” Boss also says: “Bob and myself will take care of X.” Or “Susie and me will be there tomorrow.” Or even worse: “Leave it to Jenny and I.” It’s upsetting when she tries to re-write something that I’ve written and sticks some weird phrasing in it.
Another jaw dropper is people who say “Wah la” as in “Hit the send key and Wah La! It works.” It took me ages to figure out that they meant “Voila!”
Yesterday I saw someone who wrote “Everyone should take their queue from David.”
I’m picky about grammar in official written work (not here on the internet) but my biggest mortification is re-reading something that I previously wrote and finding an error like here/hear or its/it’s or to/too/two. Scary.
My peeves:
-A few that others have mentioned (I/me/myself and moot/mute are particularly annoying)
-Affect/Effect
-Number/Amount
-Inappropriate spell check corrections (though it was hilarious when my boss accidentally spell-checked his name to “Dave Chippendale”)
-Not quite spelling or grammar, but when people use words because they sound fancier than the correct word, it annoys the hell out of me (utilize is not a direct synonym for use).
Discreet = under the radar, private, keeping something quiet.
Discrete = separate, individual.
Drives me up the wall (figuratively) when people mix these up.
I am simply glad to know there is a decent crowd out there who agree that grammar is still important in the age of twitter. I’m dating middle-aged now, surprise divorce, and been telling friends how the grammar makes more of a difference than I could have imagined- I can’t respect a partner with bad English if it is his first language. And then there is the cute sailor I might go out with, who describes himself as a candidate for sergeant in the grammer police, swoon… :) Seriously- what are we going to do when no one coming out of school will do it right?
ps pet peeve- highly educated folks with bad grammar. specifically the STEM fields. engineers, brilliant scientists, can’t write basic English.
I own this shirt too! A friend of mine bought it for me probably ten years ago.
The message rings true!