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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I’m seeing a lot of layering vests this fall, but this one from ME + EM might be my favorite so far.
The merino wool / cashmere blend looks so, so cozy, and the tortoiseshell buttons are a perfect accent, but the most exciting thing is the detachable collar. With the collar off, you can make this an outer piece that you layer over collared shirts, but with the collar on, it’s perfect for layering under blazers or wearing on its own.
This feels like one of those pieces that would garner a ton of compliments, and I wouldn’t be able to stop myself from showing off the neat little trick. (Sort of like when someone comments on a dress and I have to show them that it has pockets.)
The vest is $295 at ME + EM and comes in sizes XS-XL. It also comes in chocolate.
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Anon
Man, I feel like 1988 is back. All I need is a jumpsuit with shoulder pads, pleats, and tapered legs that I will wear with matching 1.5” heels.
Anon
This pick doesn’t look too 80s to me…
Anon
So…you need an entirely different outfit?
Anonymous
I think it looks nice but being in Boston my arms would be too cold to wear it.
anon
I am not hating this vibe. It’s better than the 90s revival, at least.
Anon
I might actually buy a vest, or knit one!, for the coming cool season. It will be 100 degrees where i am today, so maybe not today! They’re trending. I tended to wear them as tops last time around. This time I may wear them properly, as a layering piece.
Anon
I’m actively debating between Ash Slipover by Caidree and Friday Slipover by PetiteKnits. But today’s pick looks a lot like Esther by PKs, so now that’s in the mix.
Anon
I have now twice read that as the Ash Slipcover… need more tea, I guess.
Anon
For holiday gratuities for assisted living staff, should the money come from the accounts of the resident or from the family of the resident who hold power of attorney (the ones who are grateful?) What’s the etiquette?
Anon
I’ve never even heard of tips for assisted living staff. Tipping culture is out of control.
Anon
Same, we do not do this.
Anon
Tipping is generally forbidden at medical facilities. I’m not sure if that also applies to assisted living, but I feel like it should, as the same ethical issues apply.
Anon
OP here and the resident handbook has guidance for holiday gifting and how it should go to a certain PO Box for staff distribution.
Anonymous
I would not trust that money gets into hands of staff. I would be certain it’s getting pocketed.
Anon
Agree. If you’re writing a card and wondering who the card should be from, I don’t think you can go wrong either way, but, if the resident has the mental faculties to want to send a thank you card, let them do so and a thank you from the family is also nice. If the resident does not have the faculties to send a thank you, I think it should be from the family.
Anon
I would assume it wasn’t for medical staff but rather the people who bring the meals up to your room, the person who runs some of the social programs, the bus driver who drives on the outings, etc.
Anon
When I worked at an independent living facility in college, holiday tips were put in one big pot and divided among all non-salaried employees based on hours worked during the year. We were not allowed to take tips individually (and were treated well enough that it was generally not a temptation). The holiday tips amounted to basically an entire extra paycheck and were distributed to us at a big holiday-themed party where all of the residents were invited and many of them had family members attend. Live music, food, bar, dancing, karaoke, etc. It was one of the yearly highlights and the residents talked about it for weeks before and after.
Anon.
This. The people who say that tipping culture is out of control or the money won’t go to the staff are not correct. Assisted living is different from a medical facility because it is a resident’s home. It’s not really materially different from tipping your doorman or your server. The people who serve your meals and do your laundry get a little financial boost-if you decide to contribute. It’s NOT MANDATORY but it is nice positive for some very underpaid and hard working staff. By the way, do you give a holiday gift to your child care provider-even if a day care center? Most people I know do, this is no different! Source: my dad was in assisted living for 3 years and I gave every year. The funds did not come from his resident account.
Cerulean
This is a financial question, not an etiquette question IMO.
Anonymous
Does the POA document allow the agent to make gifts? In my state, the default is that the agent cannot use the principal’s money to make gifts.
Anon
Good point – I just checked and the POA does specifically allow gifts, although it was a box that had to be initialled.
Anonymous
For those of you that were sporty kids growing up, or who have sporty kids now, some questions from an unathletic mom:
I have a kid who love sports and who is strong and healthy. She is 11 and has played a ton of sports over the years and she’s like, the poster child for college intramurals. She’s happy just playing, she’s good enough but not great at anything, though I suspect that if she ever really focused on one or two she’d really improve.
My question is kind of a two parter. One, should we encourage her to double down on one or two sports and try and improve? And if not, how do we keep her happy and involved in sports as things get more competitive and there aren’t as many “everyone gets to play” opportunities? I can already see that she’s the kind of kid who will make the freshman team but probably not beyond that in high school for things like lacrosse or field hockey, and she probably won’t make the middle school basketball team which is small and very competitive.
We encouraged her to do winter swim team after she tried summer team and was pretty decent, especially since it’s a no-cut sport in high school (the only others are xc/track and cheer, which are not her jam). Obviously high school is a couple years away but the middle school teams have cuts and are really selective.
Right now she dabbles in everything – town field hockey in the fall, town basketball and town swim in the winter, town lax and town softball in spring. Travel softball (through the town, not a club) and swim and tennis over the summer.
She is not unhappy with the situation and I’m not trying to create a problem. I played ZERO sports and know nothing, and only want to help guide her to continue to do what she likes, which is sport around with friends. Many of her friends and peers are moving into club sports and she isn’t interested in that level of play.
Anon
There’s no one size fits all answer to this. What works for your kid is going to depend on her specific desires, the dynamics of her school, and what her friends do. If all her friends get into swimming or track, I bet she does too. Maybe she gets to high school and decides she’s actually really into theater or debate or a club ultimate team or something else. There’s no point in you worrying about it now. 11 is so young and things change so much over the next few years. I might have a slightly different answer if you really thought she was interested in being a super competitive athlete, but since she’s not, I’d leave her alone and let her decide what she wants to do, just encourage her to be active in whatever way she enjoys.
Anon
+1
Anonymous
Let her be your guide here. Sounds like she is pretty clear that she is not interested in competitive sports, and I am so impressed that she knows herself well enough to say nope. My eldest had a similar situation, and was able to find intramural leagues that were just enough for her. Keep the conversational lines open but she sounds really an extremely well adjusted kid who just loves to play at sports, and there will be others like her.
Cat
This reminded me a ton of a post a few months ago, so check out the comments here
https://corporette.com/short-sleeve-dart-dress/#comment-4538747
Anon
I generally agree with the earlier posters that you should follow her lead, but I will say that it becomes harder and harder to just do sports “recreationally” as kids get older, especially in high school.
Anon
i read a very interesting article with a hypothesis that this is one of the things contributing to the obesity epidemic. every activity becomes all or nothing.
Anon
That really makes so much sense.
Anon
I don’t think this is new though — I went to high school in the 1990s and except for a couple of no-cut sports like track (which I did, terribly) you had to be good enough to make a varsity or JV team to participate. There were no rec leagues for kids above 6th grade or so.
I feel like my kids actually have more opportunities to continue rec participation past 6th grade than I did. My daughter’s recreational dance studio offers classes for 6th-12th grade (although participation is low), and some of the parks & rec adult leagues also have teen leagues. The high school also has more no-cut sports than mine did.
Anonymous
It does seem like the Boomer generation had it better figured out. My sporty dad continued to ride bikes with friends, play club tennis and doubles, find pickup basketball games until his health took a diver in the last decade. He was always sporty and retired from the military where sport leagues are definitely encouraged. But I know other people stay involved in baseball/softball/bowling/pickleball from that generation. I know it’s not across the board, but it seems like our generations don’t have as many social sport groups.
Anon
My millennial husband plays pickup basketball and frisbee multiple times per week and we know a lot of 25-50 year old adults who golf, play tennis or play in recreational leagues for baseball/softball, basketball, soccer, volleyball and bowling.
I’m not athletic at all but there seem to be a lot of opportunities in my area.
anon
And, I can tell you that it really discourages kids. They realize they don’t have a chance of making the big-deal teams, or they just don’t want to give up the rest of their lives for a sport. So they opt out. Technically, rec sports are available through middle school here, but kids know they won’t be playing with their friends and classmates and will be assigned to a team of random people they don’t know. That’s not very appealing, even if the opportunity is there. Sadly, my 7th grade son was willing to consider rec soccer but he got made fun of for being on a “team for the losers who can’t keep up,” which completely killed his interest.
Anonymous
I’m the OP and this is the problem I’m anticipating. Most of the rec leagues she does dwindle by 7th/8th and are gone by high school.
She’s in 6th now so I’m trying to figure out how to help (if at all) in terms of what will help keep her options open.
Anon
One thing to consider is whether there’s a country club with team sports. When I was in school, sports were nowhere near as competitive as they are now, but the country clubs all had teams that were no cut. I think it’s hard to stick with any sport at a recreational level through school these days because of all the club sports and year-round practice.
Anonymous
Early teen years are when a lot of girls drop out of sport. I would really recommend against getting her to focus on one sport in anticipation of high school issues.
One of my kids picked up a new activity in 7th grade and another started back in recreational dance after not dancing for 3 years. There are lots of recreational opportunities in most places but they can be harder to find.
Anonymous
Yes, after the post here on this topic a while back, I went and looked at what the town I grew up in offers in terms of recreational/non competitive sports. They used to have recreational baseball, softball, soccer, and basketball through senior year, and now it only runs through 5th grade. They also stopped offering recreational tennis and field hockey in elementary. As a result, making the middle school/high school teams has become harder precisely because there is no recreational option – many of the sports I played as “no cut” are now quite competitive.
I’m not sure why the poster below is being so harsh on OP, this is a known problem.
Anonymous
She’s 11. My advice is to stop this insane spiral and let her live her life. Conclusions now about college?! Assuming she won’t make a JV team her sophomore year? Get a grip. She doesn’t have a problem. You do, it’s anxiety.
Anonymous
This is a seriously wild reaction; I hope your day gets better. I only made the comment about college because of her middle or high school had intramural sports, we’d be all set- that’s exactly what she would like to do.
Anonymous
My day is fine as is your 11 year old.
Cerulean
I think the previous poster was over the top, but I do think the message that letting her enjoy it for now and figure out her path later on is correct. You’re anticipating problems that may never happen or could resolve on their own.
anon
+1 to Cerulean. Letting the child figure it when/if it becomes a problem is a gift parents can give a child in this kind of situation. It tells the child you have confidence in them to problem solve about their sports activities and it gives the child an opportunity to practice problem solving.
Anonymous
100% Mom needs to chill.
anon
Caring about your kid is so triggering for some people on this board.
roxie
no, competitive helicopter parenting is though!
Anon
My theory is that people are triggered when their parents hovered too much or didn’t care about them enough. People who were raised in healthy households don’t get too bothered by these types of posts. OP’s concerns are pretty innocuous.
anon
It has gotten seriously bizarre lately. Any show of care or concern is met with pitchforks. Sorry ya’ll suffered from benign neglect, but step off parents who are trying to do right by their kids.
Anonymous
Doing right by their kids generally means learning to chill the F out instead of trying to figure out which sport to have their 11 yr old focus on so they can be a D1 athlete.
anon
OP didn’t even come close to wishing for a D1 athlete. Seems like some of us didn’t get enough attention from mommy (or maybe too much).
Anonymous
I disagree. I think a lot of bigger middle school programs help create this because the schools introduce hard cuts to make sports teams. It does tell kids that they are missing the chance to play around 7th grade. Being competitive can be fun and advance the level of play, but the flip side is that we’re excluding kids at younger and younger ages. Childhood should be about trying different things and exploring, but there are a lot of outside forces limiting kids (looking at you travel sports).
Anonymous
I was like this and I just…continued to play random things where I could and there were non-competitive options.
For field hockey, I played JV for 3 years and then senior year focused on marching band.
I picked up track in high school since it was no cut, and just ran relays and threw the javelin/discus/shot put – as a bonus, I learned how to lift weights. It was a very fun team since it was no cut.
I looked at our town rec options and continued to play softball, and then picked up basketball as a new to me winter sport. I also took tap dance through senior year once a week which was fun.
My college best friend did bowling in HS if your school offers it!
I would just see what your area offers in terms of noncompetitive things.
Other avenues to look at are karate, kickboxing/boxing, hiking, group exercise classes (e.g., yoga, pilates, Zumba, whatever you have near you), tennis/pickleball, kickball leagues and dance classes.
Anon
Yeah, my high school had a no-cut or “easy” sport every season. Cross country, track, field hockey, badminton, etc. I bet OP’s local school has options for kids who don’t specialize. Remember that sports aren’t a requirement to get into a selective college anyway. She can commit to other clubs or activities once she reaches high school.
Anon
As a forty-something runner (fairly competitive, have a big name company pay for some of my races), I would *strongly* encourage you to think of sports as a lifelong passion. Play the long game.
I would also not so much as encourage her to double down on a sport or two, so much as to present options and what it takes to get there. It’s totally fine to make the conscious choice to *not* compete at the highest possible level for one’s skill! It’s also fine to go all-in because it’s worth it.
anon
Your second paragraph. Yes.
Does she understand about try outs, teams, cuts, varsity vs jv vs other? Not saying she needs to be sat down and lectured but find a way to weave in to the narrative that the options to play may be competitive, and possibly disappointing, at some stage of life. She may want to go all-in, or she may not, and that’s a-ok!
Anon
Thank you!
I also have some opinions about how parents, particularly parents of girls, get wound up about whether or not their daughters loooovve what they are doing. It’s totally legitimate to have your passion be swimming and never try to make varsity, because you don’t want that stress encroaching on your passion. It’s also legit to go balls to the wall, all in on a not-passion because you’re good at it, it spruces up your college application, it gets you a scholarship and you actually love the idea of not having student loans, etc. Or maybe “playing varsity high school sports” is simply one of many experiences she would like to have in her life, even if she doesn’t looooove her best sport!
Anon
FWIW, I was an above average but not superstar-level soccer player. A bit by happenstance I ended up at a private high school with a nationally-ranked team. I played with girls who went on to play professionally. I ….. did not. I absolutely rode that bench. I know now that my parents hated it for me. Had I stayed in my small public school I would have been 4-year varsity, probably a captain and almost certainly a stand out vs the only 1 year I made varsity at my actual high school. But, I give them a lot of credit for letting me lead. I love the sport, the team element and really just wanted to be part of something I loved doing. At 40 years old, I still look back so fondly of it and do not think about how I rarely got official game time. I was allowed to grow to love the sport and given space to do that in my own way.
You’re a good parent to be thinking about this now, just continue to take cues from your kiddos and you’ll be a-ok.
Anonymous
I think it’s also ok for parents to say you have to have an active activity each semester (class or school sport), and that means you’re going to sign up for no cut track or swim since you didn’t already find something else.
Anonymous
I’m wondering if there might be an option for her to play an adult leagues as an older teen, like high school age. I was a lot like your daughter and I cherish the memories I got from my one season of high school sports playing freshman basketball. I was able to shift a bigger investment in dance, which I loved, but it would’ve been nice if there had been an option for league sports that continued into late high school.
Anon
Yeah, and there may even be designated teen leagues that are similar to the adult leagues. Our parks and rec has them in a few sports and I know the bowling alley that runs adult leagues also has a teen league.
Anon
Oh man, I have Thoughts as both an athlete and the parent of an athlete, and my advice is slightly different depending on whether it’s an endurance sport (swimming, XC, track) or a skill sport (softball, golf, or lacrosse and soccer, which feel like a combo of both).
I was a highly successful endurance athlete in high school. I was heavily, heavily recruited to D1 schools. I ultimately accepted a full ride to a D1 school, where I was one of the top recruits of the entire national class that year for women’s swimming. And I just freaking burned out around my sophomore year, and spent most of my collegiate career injured or totally plateaued. In my (highly unscientific but personal) experience, kids seem to have about 5 good years of competing as an endurance athlete. So, in my opinion, slow starters win the day here. By my senior year, our team captain and top athletes on my team were primarily walk-ons as freshman or were non-scholarship athletes (possibly recruited, but no money).
It is, in my experience, really, really, really hard to compete a high level for a long time in an endurance sport. Sure, it’s fun to win, which helps, but training is brutal, as are actual competitions. There is just SO much mental stress that comes with a long distance endurance sport – like swimming or XC or rowing. I sometimes wonder how different my trajectory would have been if I had started competing when I was a junior in high school, and had more in the tank, so to speak, in college. But after four years of high school, I was just tired of always working SO hard in practice and in competition.
So, I guess my advice is that if she likes swimming and doesn’t seem like she’s on track for the Olympics, just let her go, and don’t push for the top teams at this age. Give it time, and let her grow into being a competitor, if that’s the path she chooses.
If she starts tracking one of the skills sports (softball or lacrosse maybe), I don’t know the answer, but I have had to eat my words a bit that athletes just need to grow and not to specialize too early. My 12 year old son is heavily into baseball, and he pushed hard to play on a travel team starting around age 10. We followed his lead, and took him to some try outs, but it became pretty clear that his skills were not sufficient for him to make these teams. He eventually did make a “development” team, which was the perfect place for him to start, except that he really was behind some of the kids who had specialized early. I also got worried about injuries, since the kids were throwing harder, so we did more skill development around 10 yrs to make sure he wasn’t learning bad habits that were going to catch up with him later. It also helped him get more playing time on the team, which he loved.
I often wonder if he’ll burn out the way I know I did, and I don’t really know the answer. He does get nervous for games sometimes, but a baseball game is just not as physically taxing as, say, swimming the 400 IM. It’s also pulling teeth to get him to play literally any other sport (we try, hard, and put him in lots of rec sports off season and in the summer). I’m hopeful that if he does burn out at some point in high school or later, that some of the skill development will transfer to another sport or activity, but I guess I don’t know yet :)
All of that to say that I think you are very lucky that your daughter wants to try and play everything. I honestly think it will benefit her long term. I think you continue to follow her lead, but I guess my experience with my son is that if she does start tracking to one activity or sport that is skill based, be prepared to do some level of skill development.
anon
This is really insightful. I’ve known a number of swimmers who burned out spectacularly in college. After years and years of being in the pool and competing and training, they just ran out of gas.
Anon
I agree with this. Regarding athletics and college: I know a half dozen athletes who used their exceptional skills to get into Williams. They are all obviously very smart people, but they chose to go for outstanding academics and DIII versus DI. That’s a legitimate choice and can help with the burnout issue.
Anonymous
If she is “not unhappy” just leave the poor kid alone. She doesn’t need mom micromanaging her activities. Just be happy she likes to exercise. That’s a good trait to bring into adulthood.
Anonymous
+ 1
Let her have fun in middle school without worrying if she is specialized enough to make the high school team. She might have moved on to a totally different activity by then anyway.
Atlien
Your daughter reminds me of me, in that I am naturally athletic but much more of a “jack of all trades, master of none” and never wanted to EXCEL in sports or join travel teams, etc. In elementary I played soccer, basketball, softball but was not good enough for high school level. I was lucky that in my town in the 2000s there was a still very rec-focused softball league for high school which was my favorite activity. In high school I also was able to find niche sports to play at JV/Varsity level that had not required extensive childhood background (e.g., water polo, wrestling, swim, pole vault, triple jump). I don’t know if those kind of opportunities still exist in this day, or in your area. I also really enjoyed karate and yoga during middle school and I trained at my local gym with a friend for a sprint triathlon. Your kid may also enjoy something such as a CrossFit gym, if there is a safe and youth-focused way to do that.
Anonymous
OP here- she sometimes goes to CrossFit with my husband and loves it. We also decided to train for a 5k together (and her bestie is doing it with us). Bestie is in it because she has a bet going with her big sister on who can run 2 miles faster.
Olivia Rodrigo
Nonsportsy mom who’s the parent of three kids with a wide range of athletic inclination and abilities. Couple of thoughts for you:
– My kids go to a (private) preK – 12th grade school with no-cut sports, even in the high school. Are you guaranteed a spot on a team? Yes. Will you be a varsity starter? Only if your abilities warrant. Still, this has been amazing for my (and other) kids who just want to play and/or even try something new in 9th grade and beyond! I didn’t realize what a gift this was until my eldest got to HS and I realized we were saying “She’s going to play xyz” rather than “She’s going to try out for xyz.” I know this type of school is not an option or desired for all people, but am offering up our experience.
– My eldest played basketball and volleyball in middle school and loves being on a team, but never wanted to put in the work to compete on a serious level — which was totally fine! She had a ton of fun playing these sports and it was a fabulous experience. She’d also always played golf here and there and due to scheduling wasn’t able to play summer volleyball in the runup to her fall HS season, so she ended up on the golf team…and lo and behold, she got a varsity spot because she’s actually good at golf! It’s wild to me that this child, who has never really seen herself as an athlete, is now feeling like she has something to offer in a pretty difficult sport. So my takeaway here is that they may surprise you “later” in their athletic careers.
– My middle kid (lots of natural athletic ability) is a strong soccer player (among other things) and has been on a club team for many years — until this spring, when he chose not to try out again because he didn’t find it fun anymore. Other parents couldn’t believe we were letting a kid with that much talent discontinue his career, which I found fascinating — um, he’s 11, and he wants to try cross country, and also why would I force him to play a club sport when he doesn’t find joy in it? All of this is to say that you can have a kid who’s super talented and who doesn’t want to do the thing, and that’s cool too.
Dress
Our pediatrician told me literally this morning that my 9- and 10-year old should try lots of different things and not specialize, FWIW.
Anonymous
At most high schools there are teams where reasonably athletic and coordinated kids who have never played the sport before can walk on to the freshman or JV team and then get good enough to make varsity in a couple of years. Which sports those are varies by school.
The decision whether to specialize should be entirely up to your daughter. Pushing a kid to specialize when they don’t want to AND refusing to support a serious passion are both parenting errors. Where you can help is to gather and provide her with information relevant to her decision–for example, she may not know that camps or clinics are available, or how hard it is to make the high school team in a particular sport. Much of this information is local and cannot be crowd-sourced from a place like this.
I also agree with those who say she may change her mind. My daughter was a serious competitive gymnast until COVID hit at the end of eighth grade. Over the years she had dropped all of her other activities in favor of gymnastics. During lockdown, she picked up art. When she returned to the gym a year later, she decided that gymnastics was no longer fun and she was done. For her sophomore year she went all in on art and even attended a selective and expensive summer visual arts program. Then during junior year she dropped art in favor of choir and theatre. Senior year she won the lead in the school musical and got a zillion solos in choir. She is now a college freshman majoring in vocal performance. This is the same kid who at age 11 swore she was going to continue doing club gymnastics through college and never wanted to join choir just because elementary school choir was boring.
Anonymous
I’m not sure where you’re located, but if you’re in a big(ger) southern city, there literally are no high schools where you can walk on to a high school team at a rec level. Sad but true. Maybe cross-country or track if you’re willing to be a distance runner, but even that is getting more and more competitive.
Anon
+1. Even the K-12 private schools in our area have cuts for high school sports. Middle school is no-cut.
Anon
Maybe you have a different definition of “reasonably athletic and coordinated” than I do, but in small Midwest city it takes serious athletic talent to pick up a sport in high school and make the varsity squad.
Anon
I had a one-sport kid, but she played both high school varsity and travel club, as well as Futures and an annual three day travel tournament (not necessarily with her home club.) To your point about not necessarily being the best on the team, my kid was not the best in the club team, but ended up being captain of the high school varsity team by her junior and senior years. Being captain had more to do with leadership skills than sports skills.
I think it was good for her to not naturally be the best at everything, to be honest. There were some of those naturals in her club/tournament/futures world, and some of them were pretty obnoxious people. Humility is a good thing, IMO, as is learning how to take the L when your team isn’t the best on the field.
I think 11 years old is a great time to dabble. My daughter started focusing on the one sport only when she was 13, but she didn’t have to. It was her choice. She also did music all through school, so she wasn’t too limited by only having one sport, and appreciated that there was a bit of an off-season, though the high school and club seasons were at different times of year.
I would say that my daughter’s friend groups all through school were either through the sport or through music, which informs my opinion that it’s good to have friends with common interests. She still loves her sport, though she chose not to play it in college (long story, will provide details if you like) and she hopes to coach it now that she’s out of college.
I was a non-sporty kid, though I was/am a musician and a mathlete (!) so being a sports mom was a big transition for me. Would I ordinarily choose to get up at 5AM to drive an hour to sit in a camp chair on a chilly morning to watch a practice? No. But I’m so glad I did. Those 5AM drives were some of my best mother-daughter bonding times, and I had lots of fun eventually, once I got to know the other team parents. The three day tournament every year was huge social event for both the kids and the parents. I am still friends with several of these families.
My advice is to get a really comfortable folding chair, a good thermos, and focus on sun protection for you and your kid!
Anon
Agree on the bonding! I was a competitive figure skater, and the thing I remember most fondly about it is the bonding with my mom driving all over the Midwest for competitions.
Anon
Depends on where you live and the travel sports situation. In my perfect world, kids would get to dabble. In my real world with large and hypercompetitive high schools, you’re not making the freshman anything team unless you’ve been playing travel for years. It wasn’t terrible. Playing travel sports meant my girls knew a lot of kids already when starting high school even though their junior high sent kids to a bunch of different schools.
A.n.o.n.
this is totally a concern and one I’m going thru now. I agree with others that unfortunately there are a lot fewer opportunities as kids get older to “just play” sports – rec sports enrollment drops precipitously after 6th grade and is nonexistent for high schoolers.
my kids have, on their own, expressed interest in certain sports (even after having been cut from those sports), so they are doing those sports while our park district offers them. we will have to reassess in HS as there just aren’t those same opportunities and at our HS making it onto the teams available for those sports is unlikely (although other, no cut sports may be an option).
I think your best option is to follow her lead … agree that what her friends do is probably a big factor. encourage her to stay active and play when she can.
– mom of 11 and 14 year old rec athletes
Anon
While I hate the Catholic Church, in my area high school CYO fills this niche well. IME, grade school CYO is very competitive, but then it does a 180 and in high school CYO is all rec. There’s a rule that you cannot play a sport for your school and in CYO, so you have kids who are just playing for fun (some are serious athletes in other sports and like it for their non-main sport, others are not athletes by any stretch).
My kids are also at a private school that actually requires sports, meaning that most sports do not cut. You may be a JV or Thirds bench rider, but you still get to practice and play and be on the team. There are also sports that always need bodies, where you reasonably could make your way up to playing Varsity one day. My son will be wrestling in college, and we have some very good wrestlers on our team, but there are always a few weight classes where they are desperate for anyone. For whatever reason, softball and volleyball are not popular at their school, so same there. Working your way into being a varsity player on these sports is going to require some natural talent, athleticism, and hard work but it certainly can be done.
On the flip side, we have several sports at the school where if you’re not getting offers from top D1 programs early on in high school or on youth national teams, you’re never going to see the field.
My one daughter was tired of riding the bench in field hockey and lacrosse so tried XC her sophomore year. Discovered she loved running and is good at it, now is a 3 season runner. My other daughter loved field hockey and swimming but didn’t have a spring sport. Went out for crew on a lark, loved it, and is now a D1 rower. She kept playing field hockey throughout high school, but only made varsity her senior year and probably played 20 minutes the whole season. She loved the sport though, so was happy to put in the work without getting much playing time. I think it was probably good for her self esteem that she was getting recruited in another sport – she definitely struggled a bit with confidence in being a junior on JV (the only one) and not really playing her senior year. She also kept swimming for two years, since it was good cross training. Once she got serious with crew though, she stopped swimming and worked out with her rowing teammates in the winter to prep for spring.
All 3 of my kids kept doing summer swimming because it’s just fun. It’s through the township pool, so its relaxed, and many of their friends do it. Same with township tennis.
Anonymous
I think a useful thing for you to do, is to think about how you talk about sports at home. It sounds like she has lots of joy in movement, and being part of a team and being happy playing. If you talk about sports, as adults, as something that is a means to an end (whether that is fitness or college), she’ll pick up on that. If you talk about sports as something fun to explore all life, she’ll pick up on that.
I think the most impactful thing you can do, though, is to be active yourself and show her that trying new things you’re bad at can be a fun thing. Do the 5k, and maybe a second one. Go hiking, take a dance class, get a frisbee for a family picnic, play croquet, watch the Olympics etc. If you can meet her a little bit on the joy and demonstrate an adult having fun trying things that happen to be sports adjacent, she’ll have ideas of how to keep playing when she’s not “good enough” for whatever sports that exclude the jill-of-all-trades.
Anonymous
The truth is that most kids don’t take up running until middle or high school anyway. Aside from an occasional fun run, it’s really a sport that develops a little later. Running is a natural life skill, you shouldn’t train kids too hard, too early, and it’s not particularly skill based (aside from the field part) so trying it later is easy enough at most schools. I bet she’ll end up trying Track at some point. XC is of course it’s own, particular beast, which ironically better represents life long sport as so many adults take up distance running later :)
If worst comes to worst, and she just can’t find a team, then it’s time to invest in active family activities. Family runs, bike rides, pickup basketball/volleyball, whatever to foster a culture of life long movement.
(A former high school runner)
Anon
I’m in my mid-30s and have had a lot of skin changes and two pregnancies in the last 4-5 years, and while I’ve found some great makeup and skincare products, I cannot figure out the right foundation or what I even need. I have normal-to-oily skin, occasional acne, light scarring, and always areas of redness/unevenness, and I think I need a foundation that can cover it up. I am not typically drawn to drugstore products but I’ve been wearing and loving L’Oréal true match hyaluronic serum, which looks amazing but seems to melt off me after 4-5 hours. I intimidated by true foundation because I haven’t worn it in years and I don’t want to look like I’m wearing too much makeup. At the same time I recognize that I need foundation if I want a product that will last 12 hours (I am almost entirely in office). I’ve heard that matte finishes “age” the wearer and I do have fine lines and probably outdated makeup techniques. What are makeup wearers wearing for foundation in this day and age? I’m open to expensive products if I can go try them at Ulta or Sephora.
Anon
I hate foundation and just wear Charlotte Tilbury powder to even things out. It’s the basic idea without being gloopy. I have never found the matte finish aging since it’s not thick. I’ll find a link.
Anon
This is what I use and I think “natural finish” is the right description
https://www.sephora.com/product/P433526
Anon
Does this really last the full day? I’m surprised that the early responders seem to be able to use very little makeup but have it last through a full day! Wondering what I should do differently.
Anon
It does for me (OP on the recommendation). I use a moisturizer underneath and that’s it. Now, the caveat is I have really clear and generally even skin but even so it looks better with this on it. I might touch up if I’m going out to dinner, but I usually forget and don’t need to.
Anon
PS – I think a powder foundation generally last longer than a liquid one. No explanation on why but that’s been my experience. It doesn’t “break” or melt off.
Anonymous
Following! I have normal to oily skin and I swear it seems like my makeup vanishes or melts off or something as the day goes on. I’ve rotated through primers and setting sprays and nothing gets my makeup to last more than 4-5 hours.
Anon
Y’all need to use setting powder not spray for all day coverage. Source, every makeup artist I’ve worked with and I’ve worked with a lot. This is the secret one like Elnet hairspray
https://www.amazon.com/Airspun-Loose-Powder-Translucent-Coverage/dp/B0BDW341GG/
Anon
OP here – same! I begrudgingly use a primer and a setting spray because I think they are possibly helping and yet I still have this issue.
Anon
Charlotte Tilbury’s Healthy Glow – a few dots give my skin that little ‘oomph’ that looks polished but not ‘made up.’
Anon
I love this stuff!
Anon
I’m in my mid 40s with similar skin that’s gotten drier with age. I like a mixture of the Elf Halo glow with Rare beauty tinted moisturizer. It provides light coverage with a little glow and evens everything out nicely. I do set my forehead/sides of my nose (any extra oily areas) with a small brush and a blurring type powder. The newer blurring powders set and control oil but aren’t cakey and dry like pancake powder.
Anon
Does it stay set all day?
Anon
Yes, at least 12 hours, but I do prime with asian sunblock or a regular primer which makes a big difference in staying power.
Anon
I use BB cream and concealer on spots where needed.
It’s enough to smooth out my skin tone and it seems to have decent staying power. I use maybelline bb cream from target but there are tons of other options
Anonymous
+1. I also used this for years, but don’t get the acne version, it’s really drying. For evenings out I use Bobbi Brown serum foundation and apply with a damp Beauty Blender sponge.
Anon
Those are two very different ends of the price spectrum! I agree Bobbi Brown serum is great – I find it goes on really well with the Bobbi Brown foundation brush, and sits really well over the Bobbi Brown vitamin moisturizer/primer. I always need a bit of powder over it, but then it stays really well.
Anon
What concealer are you using? Does your face stay set all day?
Anon- 9:33
Maybelline eraser currently. I’m not in love with it, but I only use it under my eyes and on a pimple occasionally.
I think it stays pretty set over the day. I live in a humid climate and I’ll touch up with pressed powder if needed
Anonymous
If you like the foundation and it’s just coming off quickly, trying using setting spray/setting powder – now my foundation stays all day.
If you want long lasting coverage, it can be a BB cream or tinted moisturizer or whatever – you just need to use primer/setting spray/power to ensure it stays all day. I use Charlotte Tilbury’s Hollywood Filter as a light foundation and it stays 10+ hours with setting spray/powder.
Anon
OP here – I do see a dermatologist and am on tret and other efforts to help with my skin, but it’s genetic and I’m not sure that I’ll ever get to a great place with my skin.
Anon
Make sure you’re using a primer and setting spray to ensure your foundation stays all day.
Anon
Honestly, I ordered (and returned) something like 34 foundations this past January because I wanted to try things in my own bathroom and get my husband’s opinion about, “Does this really match?”, etc. I spent days building my cart and selecting even foundations I’d never heard of. Many of the ones I ordered were visibly the wrong shade in the tube, so I returned those unopened; others, the color worked but I hated the texture, and some vice versa. It was fun to try them all for a couple days and really get a feel for what worked for me. And of course Ulta takes opened returns.
Btw, for $22, give the Laura Geller baked balance and brighten powder foundation a whirl. It’s become my go-to for casual days because it’s quicker and easier to apply than a liquid.
Anon
This is exactly what I wish I could do and do not have time for! Thank you for your work! -OP
Anon
I did not try 34 at once, but I have a note on my iphone about what didn’t work (most of them didn’t work) and why, including notes about shades.
My list has all the IT Cosmetics offerings (no, very yellow, sunk into pores),
Everything from Estee Lauder (no, even the moisturizing one sunk into pores),
Bobbi Brown (like the serum foundation but it’s $75, Skin foundation is ok but a bit dry),
NARS Tinted Moisturizer is good and perfect shade,
Bare Minerals everything (no, so pilly!),
Clarins (oxidized),
MAC (nothing great, but perfect shade match),
Lancome (nope),
Kevin Aucoin (no)
Dr Jart Premium BB (holy grail)
Missha M BB (did not sit well, too pale)
Shiseido Revitalessence (super awesome, but getting the right shade has been a challenge)
Anonymous
This is such waste. All these items after returning were thrown out.
Anon
I’m not that poster, but it’s increasingly hard to try anything on at a brick and mortar store. I started my own list in 2017 and tried everything on at a mall then, but now I can’t find the brands I want to try in a store. I have to order them.
Anon
Long wear foundations tend to be more matte and dry because that’s what makes them long wear.
Estee Lauder Double Wear is the industry standard for long wear foundations.
I don’t personally like long wear because I do not want a full foundation look. I use BB cream, which is between a serum/skin tint kind of thing like you’re using and a full coverage foundation.
My current best dewy foundation that is slightly more coverage than a BB cream is Shiseido Revitalessence Skin Glow Foundation and it is LOVELY, but pricey.
Winter
It’s not true foundation, but I have skin that sounds similar to yours and I like the Dr Jart Cicapair Tiger Grass Color Correcting. The green minimizes the redness and turns into a very blendable color (for me at least). It lasts all day or close enough that I don’t notice an issue.
I also just ordered the Sephora sample pack of nine different foundations (each will come with multiple colors) as a free gift with purchase. They also have a $10 sample pack of 12 foundations where you pick the color range.
Anonymous
What’s your favorite brand for sofas? We’re looking for a comfy sectional for our basement entertainment/lounge area. I’m considering a modular set-up like Lovesac or Inside Weather so we can change the configuration around (and maybe even use it as a guest bed in a pinch), and also thinking that a couch that comes apart would be easier to carry down the narrow basement stairs. We have cats so scratch-resistant and washable is also a plus. Thoughts?
Anon
It’s a small company and I’ve mentioned it here before, but if they happen to have something you like (among limited options), I was happy with Sabai for washable, scratch resistant, modular and easy to reconfigure, and durability. I also needed a relatively small footprint though which was surprisingly hard to find without going custom.
Anon
We have couches from Article and Pottery Barn and have had crate and barrel in the past. My favorite has been pottery barn, that sofa is so darn comfortable.
Anon
Anyone bought from Castlery?
Anon
Not a couch, but I got a really nice credenza from Castlery.
Anon
Good to know – thank you!
NYNY
I ordered a Burrow Shift sleeper sofa that might work for you, although it’s not a sectional. Definitely designed to get into tight spaces. It should be coming this month, so I can report back.
Anonymous
Do not buy a sofa without trying it out in person. We made a four-hour round trip for this purpose and it was well worth it. The brand I thought would be perfect turned out to be cheap and junky, and the brand I thought was cheap and junky turned out to be very nice.
Anonymous
We bought the Lovesac couch 4 years ago and have already reconfigured it 3 to 4 times. We got it through the Costco roadshow. The only thing with using Costco is you have to pay upfront and can’t finance it, if that’s an issue for you. We upgraded to the Lovesoft filling. I will say that you might want to buy it a bit bigger than you originally planned. We added seats and sides later on but the company had changed the materials, so I can definitely tell which seats and pillows are the newer ones. It’s held up well so far and is insanely comfortable. My husband and I spent a whole month sleeping on it after our baby was born, and had no complaints. We’re a bit older (late 30s), so that’s saying something!
Washington, DC
I’ll be in the Georgetown/DC area for an event this weekend. I’m free until about 3:00 PM on Saturday. Any suggestions for things to do on Saturday and maybe a few hours on Friday and Sunday? I like to walk. I’ve seen most of the major sites at one time or another, some I wouldn’t mind seeing again. I’m open to all suggestions! TIA
Anonymous
Fun! I would check out what’s playing at the Kennedy Center (millennium stage is free), as the Reach is a nice area to walk around. I also really like the Wharf- checking out the events calendar, on Saturday there is Oktoberfest, and then on Sunday is a walking tour of interesting SW DC homes. One of my favorite museums is the Portrait Gallery if you haven’t been, and I’ve also been meaning to go to the Planet Word museum.
Anan
I agree – Kennedy Center roof top + millennium stage + picnic at the Reach is one of my favorite activities.
There’s an exhibit of Impressionists at the National Gallery of Art that I’m really hoping to get to this fall/winter.
Washington, DC
OP – this sounds perfect! Thanks for the recs.
Anon
Sunday is Takoma Park Day; it’s a bit farther from Georgetown but as street fairs go that’s one of my favorites, it’s literally a mile long lined with tents for everything from artisans to music to local sports programs to gutter vendors, it’s a very eclectic mix.
Also check out the Washington Post Going Out Guide, and an Instagram influencer named Clockout DC, for more ideas. She always has a great collection of interesting, and mostly free, events.
Anon
to my two alma maters who both currently have interim presidents, no i will not be giving you money for class giving day. also- where are universities going to find non-interim presidents? i have to think that multiple top universities are not typically looking at the same time and they are probably looking at the same talent pool?
Anon
Who would agree to be a university president right now? Anybody decent knows it’s a can’t win job right now and would just be in it to collect a paycheck. Better to stay where you are for a few years than blow up your career.
Anon
who would even agree to be interim?!?
Anonymous
Someone who doesn’t want the job long term and has another job to return to
Anon
Some people thrive in chaos.
NYNY
Honestly, if you’re offered interim, you’re likely not well-positioned to turn it down, since you are likely already in a leadership role in the institution. But interim is better than permanent, because you’re less likely to have GOP members of congress trying to stunt on you.
OP, outside of the humblebrag, what’s your point? Why would having an interim president make you not contribute if you otherwise would?
Anon
Yeah, I don’t get why having an interim president would change your decision to donate.
I don’t donate much to either of my schools, but I do a little to a scholarship fund every year.
OP
i won’t contribute bc of the rampant antisemitism at the schools, which is the reason that they have Interim Presidents. it’s also just somewhat amusing to receive multiple emails per day from Interim President X. was not trying to engage in any humble bragging.
Anonymous
This exactly. Who wants to volunteer to be a whipping boy for politicians foreign and domestic, the press, alumni, students, and faculty all at the same time, while being forced to put outside interests above those of the university community itself? I wouldn’t want anyone who wants that job to be my university president.
Anonymous
I will never donate to my law school because it jacked up tuition over the three years but kept scholarships flat, so I ended up with a lot of unanticipated student loans. If you want me to give you money, don’t trick me into going into debt.
Anon
Same. The ROI was negative.
Anonymous
We still have a real president at my school because he fomented a skirmish resulting in being beaten on the quad by outside.law enforcement and stands by his decision like a good little patron. Also not giving.
Anonymous
*resulting in an elderly professor and peacefully protesting students being beaten on the quad
Not sure what happened there.
Anon
I am so confused. He got beaten on?
Anonymous
No. Read the correction.
He called in outside police forces (state and local) to confront peaceful protestors and observers of that protest, which resulted in at least one professor and students being shoved to the ground and beaten by the officers.
Anon
was this protest in violation of school policy? had the protestors been asked to disband? or the first thing the president did was call in the police?
asd
In Texas?
Nesprin
What uni? He sounds like someone I’d send money to.
Anonymous
That’s what he was counting on.
Anonymous
It’s wild that you have only my description of events to go on and your response is “I’m for that. Let me get my checkbook.”
Anon
Hello fellow Emory alumni.
Anonymous
Question for parents and non parents alike – what’s your view on the idea that when kids are raised with money, they don’t strive as hard as when they have a normal middle class life? And is there any way to prevent this for real beyond the performative things like volunteering a few times per year?
I’m obviously not talking about kids on either extreme. Meaning there are always kids from crazy rich families but that kid’s own dream is to be a doctor or work for NASA, so they are going to pursue it regardless of mom and dad’s wealth. Then there’s the other end where they’re going to drop out of college and be a ski instructor even if you assure them they need to pay their own way, buy their own house etc.
DH and I are starting to think about this with regard to our own kids who are 10 and 12. DH and I aren’t super rich or anything but the higher end of upper middle class and this have a life that we never had growing up – large home, kids have their own rooms and bathrooms, 3-4 vacations per year mostly out of the country, DH is into the luxury car thing though I don’t care etc. We don’t think any of these things are SO big but we were talking with DHs older siblings this weekend all of whom have similar lives – ALL said that their kids academically were nothing like what all of us were and they regret how much they gave their kids growing up as they think that played a role.
No one is suggesting that the next gen all needs to go Ivy as DH and most of his siblings did, as we all recognize the college admissions difficulties. But there’s lots of kids who aren’t graduating in 4 years or not getting jobs after graduation even when the economy was booming or not getting into med school and chilling at home working part time.
DH’s siblings were of the view that there was something to the way they and I grew up – kids go to school and come home, do homework and are pretty bored aside from a few school friends. They seem to think giving the kids cars in high school, Uber eats connected to mom and dad’s credit cards, three vacations a year and all inhibited the kids’ own drive. Anyone think about this?
Anon
I can see where growing up thinking that having your own car in high school, food delivery at one’s fingertips and multiple vacations leads to a warped sense of what’s normal. These sorts of extravagances are things it would never have occurred to me to have as a teen, and are unattainable now. When choosing between UberEats, vacations or retirement savings, retirement savings wins every time. It’s possible to have a happy, intellectually fulfilling, simple life that doesn’t cost a ton of money. It means picking and choosing what’s important. IMO, that’s what more folks need to realize.
Anon
yes, i do think about this. and i think a lot of it comes down to values, conversations with your kids, etc. DH and I both grew up upper middle class, though my parents were not into luxury items or special brands or fancy cars. We did not take the level of vacations it sounds like you take, though DH’s family was different – his mom was a SAHM into brand name everything, very into keeping up with the Joneses, skiing out west, Caribbean vacations, etc. DH is one of the hardest working people I know. His sister took a while to mature, but that was due to some mental health challenges, but now has a good job as a nurse and interestingly enough has no interest in having most of the stuff she had growing up (like not super into travel), and his brother has a very stable corporate job. He’ll never earn millions, but should be fine. I went to college with the son of one of the founders of Blackrock who was also one of the hardest working people I knew, and modest (I had no clue who his father was until a year after I met him). I think a lot of it comes down to the conversations you have at home and choices you make. There is also a difference between giving kids a hand me down CRV vs a brand new Lexus or whatever. I also cannot imagine giving my kids Uber eats connected to our credit card.
Anon
Yup. My kids are in private school and we talk a lot about how there is no generational wealth in our family and that the life they/many friends live is not the norm. We also discuss how fortunate we are for what we have and model donating/charity work. Attitudes towards money and saving/spending can and should start at a fairly young age.
Anon
I think it very much depends on both the kids own personality types and the parents having conversations about life choices early on. Our family is also upper middle class but my husband and I were working class kids (boomer parents in good union jobs that saved/spent carefully without many luxuries but all needs were met). We are pretty clear with our kids that there is no generational wealth being handed down beyond help with college/soft place to land while they establish themselves. If they want an upper middle class life as adults they need to work hard to get into a good school and make strategic choices about what type of major/work they chose. Other aunts/uncles/cousins are still in more trade/military/union jobs so they see this IRL. It’s pretty easy to say – ‘hey, if you want the type of lifestyle you have now as an adult that will take work and effort.’ We also emphasize that it’s fine if they want a trade/military/service career but so far both kids are more into STEM stuff.
Anon
A lot of this is innate personality, but I think there’s something to be said for letting kids (and adults) be too comfortable – people get complacent when there’s no friction. I think being uncomfortable can be a major motivator and begets resilience, flexibility, and creativity. But too much discomfort can also lead to resignation, so it’s a fine balance.
My husband and I actually had a big disagreement over the private bathroom for each kid because we are building a house – I was against, he was for. I never had a private bathroom and he did, and I argued that if we make the house too comfortable they won’t leave! We ended up with a jack and jill (though there’s a guest bathroom too, so if they really care that much they can walk across the house to that).
Anon
Ha. We kept the only other bedroom with an en suite as an office/guest room because we had the same conversation – if the house is too comfortable they’ll never want to move out!
Anon
I agree with the siblings, based on the limited info presented here. I don’t know about inhibiting academic drive, per se, but I’m sure it does lead to a sense of entitlement and a warped sense of what their standard of living “should” be.
My husband and I were just discussing this — our parents’ generation, raised by people who grew up during the depression, accepted that when you start out in life you are often eating rice and beans and living for years with dilapidated hand-me-down furniture while you work your way up. It feels like starting with millennials (of which I am one) kids are expecting to be able to live in their 20s exactly how their parents live now (aka the nest they launched from). Influencer culture exacerbates it.
I have no plans to give my kids their own cars — there will be a “kids car” to be shared that will not go to college — and takeout is a luxury we barely afford to ourselves, so kids will need to work and pay for anything like that with their own money. I think a general standard could be if the family is doing something together the parents will pay, but anything a child wants on their own, over and above, is their responsibility. And maybe you set a certain budget for clothes and activities that you have historically paid for, and when they are teenagers they have to decide how to allocate it and pay themselves for anything beyond.
Anonymous
+1 million to your second paragraph. I think this is why a lot of kids end up unemployed or underemployed and living at home–they think they “deserve” fancy jobs and lifestyles just for being their awesome little selves. I have a nephew who was offered a very good job through on-campus interviewing at a very liveable salary and turned it down because his cousin told him it didn’t pay enough. Surprise, surprise–once he’d graduated nothing better came along, and he’s now living in his girlfriend’s parents’ basement. My husband and I and our GenX peers would never have dreamed of moving back home at graduation, much less moving in with a boyfriend or girlfriend’s parents. We took whatever jobs we could get, lived in crummy apartments with lots of roommates, and worked our way up to our current middle-class lifestyles.
Anon
Grew up with rich parents and they always said “we’re rich, you’re poor.” While we got to tag along on vacations my siblings and I all had jobs as soon as we were old enough starting with paper routes and babysitting and then working in restaurants and retail in high school and college. They paid for big stuff like tuition, but since I never saw that money it never felt like mine. Today, we’re all independently successful at our own careers.
Anon
This.
Anon
PS – we also talked about money all the time. What it cost to do things, what different careers paid, what choosing certain educational tracks meant, etc.
anonshmanon
I think this is the important part. If you’re a middle class family, kids learn automatically that money doesn’t grow on trees. If you can afford to give them and yourself most wants, there needs to be a conscious effort to make the value of labor visible to your kids. Having Uber eats at the push of a button sounds like the opposite of that.
Cat
UMC but same – I was always aware that if I wanted the same standard of living as I enjoyed as a kid, that it was going to be my own earning power I’d need to rely on to do it.
Cat
And like 10:06, money was not off the table. My parents openly talked about big and little choices, more so as I got into my teens.
– career paths, willingness to pay expensive tuition for anticipated ROI (strong major at an Ivy yes, just wanting to go to a low-ranked pretty campus no)
– skipping our family vacations in the wake of the dot-com crash
– saying “put it on your Christmas list” or birthday list when we were at the mall and I wanted something
– watching sale cycles at the grocery store
– cars being a depreciating asset – buy in cash, ideally in good used condition
Cat
oh and lastly, easier said than done now, but I worked fast food and retail part time jobs in my teens. I vividly remember learning about taxes from that first pay stub.
Anonymous
I do think kids should get a summer job if possible. Also, for girls at least, parents are desperate for babysitters.
If you have housecleaners, I do think you should teach your kids how to clean and make opportunities for them to clean their room at least. Don’t send your kids to college without knowing how to do laundry and clean a toilet.
Anon
Same. Parents made it very clear that they’re not supporting us past college. They talked a lot about living within your means and why they don’t have fancier cars and designer handbags even though they could technically afford it. We were required to hold summer jobs. We heard the word “no” a lot but our parents didn’t make things harder for the heck of it. My older sibling got a hand me down car then I got it as a double hand me down. We did our own laundry and had chores like taking out the garbage or wiping down the counter after dinner but we had our own bathrooms and our family had a biweekly cleaner. I know some people here are convinced that you’ll end up a lazy brat if you don’t scrub a shared toilet but I promise that’s not true.
anon
I grew up quite wealthy and an only child. (And a single mom). The financial security gave me the ability to do low paid but socially vital work. My mom gave me $1000 every month and contributed to my first down payment. She still gives a large check every Christmas. I’ve been working since high school and I’m now 35. That being said, I’m extremely frugal and responsible and I’m quite sure my mother’s financial assistance would have stopped a long time ago if I were spending it on silly things.
I think it’s largely kid dependent but parents who actively model good financial habits are very important. My mom made it clear that saving and investing were more important than vacations, though we were fortunate to have the money for both. I also always knew that her money came because she worked her tail off, so I was and am very appreciative of it.
Anon
You say you’ve been working since high school. I think that’s very different than the current crop of “school is your job, we will pay for everything you desire” parents these days. You had skin in the game — and if you were raised by a single hardworking mother, you probably made more sacrifices than you realize (in a good way, not knocking single moms!) I know it was a small detail in the OP, but being able to order Uber Eats whenever you want sounds like the lap of luxury.
anon
I’m the anon above and yes, I agree. We never did takeout and absolutely lived below our means, though in a nice house with plenty of nice vacations. I think that type of everyday frugal mentality makes a big difference. I knew we had money but I also knew that if I asked for pizza delivery, my mom would say that delivery fees are a waste of money and we already have food at home.
Anon
As a single mom who lives similarly, I feel a lot of hope from your post!
Anon
I have kids in college. Both of them looked for jobs in high school and couldn’t get hired. People overestimate how easy it is for teens to get jobs anymore. My daughter babysat & built quite a nannying profession, but no one wanted to hire my son for babysitting.
In terms of getting a job at a restaurant or shop (like I did way back when) it’s very difficult, because in this economy, adults want and need those jobs. Why would they hire a 16 year old with no experience when they could hire, for the same wages, a grown adult who has been doing the same type of job for years?
Anon
I’m the Anon you’re replying to and I take your point, I’ve heard similar from my nieces and nephews. I think what I’m referring to is more of a responsibility mindset; there are definitely (many) parents who feel like requiring anything beyond homework and sports is too much for their kids. If a teen can’t find paid employment outside the home, there’s still PLENTY they could be responsible for at home (especially if the family has a lawn service or housekeeper — the teens can do those jobs for money instead). Making dinner, doing the grocery shopping, etc. And then maybe the parents do give them spending money.
Anon
It’s an interesting question. Money opens up so many opportunities that I’m used to seeing the pattern where the kids who do get into Ivies, med school, etc., are more often the kids who had those opportunities and took them than kids who were motivated and also made it past every obstacle and closed door. But that says nothing about the kids who had the opportunities and didn’t take them! I will say that some parents I know who didn’t have a lot of money are also distressed about their kids who had to work entry level jobs in high school, etc., not showing more ambition lately. And lord knows that kids who came home, did homework, and were bored back in the 80s mostly didn’t have drive either. Teachers I know are talking about how things have changed since the pandemic and have expressed concern that some previously motivated students have adopted a kind of YOLO pessimism about the future (based on what they say about the pandemic, climate change, and wars), and they’ve been harder to motivate. I think schools as institutions don’t always do a great job of providing vision or even insight into the adult world and how it operates and how someone can make a difference.
My prejudice is that I think a lot of education these days is a pretty rote exercise in jumping through hoops and it takes a lot of drive and faith to stick with it. I think for kids who are already living comfortably, it helps to have access to educational opportunities aimed more at curiosity than at drive (identifying problems that can be addressed, doing projects, participating in research). We don’t have to be motivated to afford vacations or take out if we’re motivated to do something else, but having mentors and social connections to people who are working on something new and important is more motivating (especially to adolescents) than getting a good score on a test with the proximate goal of getting a good score on some later test.
So I think there are good and bad sides to being a little spoiled: at some point most people are going to have to sit down with some flashcards and put in the boring effort. It can’t all be curiosity driven, fun, and social. But it can be a good thing when people are being raised with all their needs met and the opportunity and safety net to network and think outside of established paths. People who are very innovative don’t always strike me as driven or motivated or as having chased a dream; they sometimes come across as a little spoiled or indulgent, like they chase curiosities or whims, or like they just don’t worry about the basics. And then I learn about how they grew up and often they had a kind of disdain for school and invested in (privileged) educational opportunities outside of the curriculum.
Anon
Performative things like volunteering will send the wrong message.
I grew up with money and I work HARD. Here is what helped and didn’t help:
Helping side:
-Menial summer jobs.
-Parents being clear about the terms of paying for higher ed: I needed all As and Bs in high school, have extracurricular activities, obey curfew, and graduate within four years. Summer school or extra time would be on me. (I think this rule should have been waived in extreme circumstances, eg mononucleosis, but the idea is there.)
-Sports.
-An emphasis on effort as opposed to grades. If we came home with Bs but outstanding effort, my father didn’t blink.
Didn’t help:
-Acting like they were rich because they worked harder than everyone else. Yes, they put in longer hours at more stressful jobs than many people did, but… holy cow.
-Acting like I wasn’t working my tail off because I am very smart. Sure, very smart would have gotten me good grades with little effort, but at the top, *everyone is very smart.*
Anon
Also helped: I was given a car once I got my license. It was the oldest car, not the newest or safest vehicle. I was given a small amount of money to pay for gas to and from school, and my parents were explicit that the car was also to help them (so they could focus on work and my younger siblings, rather than being chauffeur to me, and so I could help out with my younger siblings).
Anon
Posted above as growing up rich and agree with your list of helps. I’d also add that volunteering, IMHO, send the wrong message – it is performative and signals that you don’t need to work for money. I think it’s critical to get a real job and have to show up at it. Nothing motivated me more to do well in school than having a crappy teen job at the mall.
Anon
yes, yes, yes. I think ALL teenagers should have a few crappy food service, retail, or manual labor jobs.
Anon
I struggle to explain why volunteering doesn’t help. Best I’ve got is that it signals to the child that there is a permanent gulf between people who have and have-not, and kids who grow up knowing that they *could* struggle to make ends meet are often more motivated.
If you have a menial summer job, you are interacting with your coworkers on the same level. Now, some of them are paying their rent and buying their kids’ clothes on that money and it’s your “have fun in college” fund; however, you’re both doing the same work for roughly the same pay.
Volunteering though… it can definitely come across as “here is rich us and here is poor other people.”
Anonymous
Agree 100%. My teenager got her first minimum-wage job this summer and suddenly understood the value of money in a way she hadn’t before.
Anonymous
I think volunteering depends on what you choose to volunteer for and how it integrates into your life within your local community. Eagle scouts often build benches or maintain hiking trails, etc. which are volunteer projects that help build local community and social infrastructure. As an adult, I’ve volunteered for things I’m passionate about. If volunteering at a shelter or food bank is awkward for your family, find something else.
Anon
I volunteer a lot as an adult and find it meaningful, but I tend to agree teenage volunteering is always performative. Even Eagle Scout/Gold Award stuff. They’re in it for their resume and/or because their parents are making them do it. Which is fine. I was self-centered as a teenager too, and there’s not really anything wrong with a teenager being focused on their college resume above all else. But it makes the volunteering feel very performative. Teenage volunteers can also be a big burden on adult volunteers, who often have to redo everything the teens do.
Anon
I think about this too, although I tend to agree with the poster that a lot of it has to do with conversations and values. I grew up very comfortable, and had some really cool experiences like Space Camp and international vacations and my parents paid for my private college in full. So they were not poor by any means. But we lived in a very small home, they drove their cars into the ground and we rarely got new clothes, so I also didn’t feel rich and many of my public high school classmates seemed to have much more outward wealth (their parents were probably saving a lot less, but that’s a separate topic).
My kids have… everything, honestly. Our incomes are modest compared to many posters here, but due to a combination of our parents paying for our education, my parents offering to help with the kids’ college and us living in a very LCOL area, we really have everything we want. We don’t drive luxury cars, but that’s a choice that’s not driven by money and fancy cars are rare here. We have a big, nicely updated home, all the experiences and activities us and our kids could want, back to school shopping trips, multiple international vacations each year, etc. My kids have flown international business class a bunch, which is just wild to me as someone who didn’t fly domestic first class until my late 20s. But like someone else said below whenever they show any hint of entitlement or superiority, we say “we’re rich, you’re poor.” They know that they haven’t earned this lifestyle and I think they have a pretty good sense that they’ll have to work for it one day, although they also know it will be easier for them than others due to being “born on third base” (and that awareness is important too).
Also I think it’s kind of a hot take here but this is one of the reasons I felt strongly about having my kids in public school and not living in a super wealthy area where the public schools are quasi-private. Not only do we want them to meet people from all socio-economic backgrounds, I really wanted to remove the pressure to keep up with the Joneses. We spend money on what we want (vacations, mostly) without having to worry about “keeping up” in other area like fancy cars.
Anon
Wow! I have never flow international business class (nor have my kids) and I earn in the mid 6 figures. Are you using airline points? No shade since I one hundred percent support your choice of how you spend your money but this is wild to me. I also live in a LCOL area and generally speaking we drive older, lower cost cars.
Anon
We don’t do it all the time (maybe half our cross-Atlantic/Pacific trips?) and it definitely depends on the pricing — I’m not in a position to pay $10k per ticket or anything like that. When we get it, it’s a mix of using points, scoring cheap waitlist upgrades (they’re not free like domestic upgrades, but very affordable compared to typical cash prices, although you need airline status and there’s a lot of luck involved in getting one) and buying business outright when we can snag a good deal, which to me is in the ballpark of $1-2k more than an economy ticket for a flight >8 hours. A lot of airlines now let you book
mixed class tickets, so for Europe trips we often get business for the outbound redeye so we have the flat seat to sleep and then take economy home when we’re not trying to sleep.
European carriers like TAP, LOT and Turkish Airlines tend to be a lot cheaper than United/American/Delta for business class tickets (cheaper for economy too, but the gap is smaller). We’re Star Alliance people but I’ve only flown United Polaris a couple times: got an insane deal (~$1,500 roundtrip US-Italy) at the tail end of Covid precautions, lucked into an upgrade once on a different flight to Europe, and recently cashed in a zillion United points for flights to Africa… won’t be doing that again any time soon but the flight is 15 hours so it seemed very worth it.
Administrator
I am a high school administrator in a wealthy suburban district and I tend to see far more kids put too much pressure on themselves to perform and keep up the same lifestyle (or better) than their parents than I do the opposite. At graduation, they seem to shy away from majoring in nursing or social work and instead go for finance or business. I don’t think you end up with the problem of not striving unless you either 1. have generational wealth and can live off it or 2. are cool with the “embarrassment” of not achieving in the way that’s seen as acceptable in this community.
Anon
There are certainly things that we could do for our kids that we don’t do because we don’t think that kids and teens need XYZ. We do well, but aren’t wealthy, and prioritize a) retirement and b) kids’ education over other types of spending. So, my kids are in private school but we do more modest vacations, our house is in many ways great but also smaller and dated, we drive Toyotas and Hondas into the ground, and we don’t do many brand names. We could spend more on this stuff, but that’s not our priority.
I don’t want to perpetuate the pressure cooker environment that the kids’ school can be, but we’ve also made it clear that we even if we don’t expect straight As, we expect straight A effort. If a kid doesn’t do well but put in the effort, that’s fine. I’d rather a C with strong effort than a B that, with effort, could have been an A. The kids’ school does biweekly progress reports only if you’re below a certain threshold or have missing assignments. The kids know they will be spending their weekend without screen time if there’s a progress report related to poor effort or missing work. Same goes for extra curriculars – we’re happy to drive, do the logistics, and pay for activities so long as the kids are both enjoying them and working hard. If you’re phoning it in, we’re going to have to reevaluate if its worth the logistics or cost.
We all do a nightly tidy up and weekend chores. We are a family of 5, so there are 5 nightly chores (which take 5-10 mins) and 5 weekend chores that rotate. For example, nightly chores include unloading/loading/running the dishwasher, clearing the table, wiping down the counters and sweeping the floor, putting leftovers away, and, as needed, taking out the trash or hand washing dishes. Once or twice a week we also take 5-10 minutes to have everyone go through the 1st floor and basement and put away things that are theirs. Weekend chores include vacuuming/sweeping 1st floor floors, 1st floor dusting or windows, seasonal yard work (raking, mowing), cleaning the powder room and kids’ bathroom, cleaning the kitchen, and cleaning the basement (which is a rec room where the kids tend to hang out). Weekend chores usually take 30ish minutes, and anything beyond that my husband and I take care of. Everyone is responsible for their own bedroom and teenagers are responsible for their own laundry and changing their sheets.
We give the kids $50/month as an allowance. If they want more spending money, we will pay them to do additional chores and we encourage them to get part time jobs. The allowance is for purely “extras” – going out to eat with friends, the movies, clothing that’s more expensive than what we’d normally buy them, a video game. We cover all food at home and school (obviously), toiletries, school uniform, school supplies, and things needed for extracurriculars, the phone bill, electronics (within reason) and most non-school clothing. So, there is no way in h3ll that I”m paying for my kids’ Uber Eats or Doordash!! There’s plenty of food in the house, they have funded school lunch accounts, and if they want something different that’s what their allowance or earned money is for.
We don’t have kids old enough to drive yet, but we live in a walkable area with decent public transit so I think we’ll be fine with them borrowing one of our cars (which is what I did!). If we do end up with a 3rd car, it would be a hand me down and for all 3 kids to share, but we’d probably pay for gas.
We’ve definitely started talking about career choices early with our kids. We are both feds (not in DC – which helps a lot with cost of living). We took different paths to becoming feds, and we talk about the tradeoffs of different types of work. We’ve also explained our expectations for their future – we want them to be happy, a productive member of society, and able to support themselves and the lifestyle they want. If they want a fancy or expensive lifestyle, they’ll need a career to support that. If they want a lower standard of living, then they’ll need a career to support that. We cannot and will not support them fully, but we’ll support them as adults within reason, especially if they’re making progress towards goals. So, we’d let them live at home for rent-free in their 20s if they’re working or in school. But, we won’t let them free load and we can’t pay grad school tuition, for example.
We are lucky vacation wise – my parents inherited a beach house that we get to use a lot during the summer. We usually take a fall break or spring break trip each year too. They’re usually perfectly lovely, but more modest vacations and then every few years we do something bigger.
Since the kids are in private school, they are surrounded by plenty of wealthy, wealthy kids. That is not our life, and that is something we do discuss. We get financial aid from their school and we sacrifice in other ways to send the kids to their school.
Anon Mom
I have a 24-year old (out of college two years) who grew up in an upper middle class family in a very upper middle class neighborhood. I am a lawyer and everyone’s parents were lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc. They almost all got cars (although used and not fancy), annual international vacations, fully funded college educations, etc. They did not go to private school, although that is partly because we live where we live because it has some of the best public schools around (and obviously my daughter’s friends are mostly the people she knows from school).
And honestly they are all fine except for a few cases of crippling anxiety. They all graduated in 4-5 years from good universities (ranging from State U to Ivy League). T hey are all working full time or in grad school. With the exception of one of the grad school students, they have all moved out (and the one who lives at home has a family that definitely wants her to stay at home). As far as I can tell they are all responsible, contributing members of society.
Honestly I think a lot of the narrative about “rich kids” is societal lore with no basis in actual reality. Right up there with “private schools are full of drugs” – which does not track at all with the data about drug overdoses among teens! Sure I could point to a few spoiled brats who are destined for a bad end. I could also point to a bunch of high school dropouts working dead end jobs (when they are working at all) and doing drugs every weekend while living at home and sponging off their parents among the offspring of the part of my family that is still living in the rural area my mom left.
Anon
I went to an Ivy and everyone I knew who did any drug harder than pot had gone to a private school. It was especially common among kids who’d gone to boarding school. I think the data about drugs in schools doesn’t control for variables like academic achievement. My public school certainly had plenty of “druggies” but 1) they mostly just did pot and 2) the smart kids essentially never interacted with them. Among kids who are academic high achievers, I’m firmly convinced there are way more drugs in private schools.
Anon Mom
I do not doubt your experience, but I went to State University and all of the kids I knew who did hard drugs went to public school. My daughter’s public school had plenty of drugs (and a lot of underage drinking). Anecdote is anecdote – but the reality is that teenagers from less affluent backgrounds are much, much, much more likely to die of a drug overdose. (I will not even get into arrests because those might well be more common due to different enforcement.)
Anon
My friends and I were all too poor to buy drugs. Our parents didn’t partake, so it’s not like we could swipe their supply. Where are these kids coming up with the money? That junk isn’t cheap.
Anon Mom
For “how do they come up with the money” : My sister is a high school counselor at a school in a rural area with one of the highest drug overdose rates in the country. According to her: (1) they or their friends steal prescription drugs from parents/grandparents/other people whose houses they have access to; (2) they steal other things and either sell them or trade to their dealers; (3) they “do favors” for their dealers (for girls these are often s*xual, for boys often illegal); (4) they steal small amounts of cash that are not likely to be missed from everyone around them.
I realize it is counter-intuitive, but all empirical evidence is that illegal drug use is much more common among people at a lower socio-economic level. Very generally speaking and realizing that there are always exceptions, it is not an excess of money that causes people to use drugs; it is the absence of hope for the future.
Anon
Anon Mom is right. Maybe wealthy people overestimate the drug use amongst their set and underestimate it amongst poor, rural communities.
Anon
IDK my kids went to a pretty urban high school and everyone knew that if you went to the parties in the rich neighborhoods/burbs, you could get any drug you wanted. My kid is a pretty major goody two shoes (weed only, doesn’t even like alcohol) but her friends hung out with here here at my house all the time, and I heard allll the stories.
Anon
OTOH, I went to a pretty elite private school. No one did anything harder than pot in high school, and even among the partiers pot was pretty rare. There were like 3-4 “stoners” who were the only kids who smoked pot on an even semi regular basis, and they all got kicked out of school for drugs or grades in the first two years of high school.
Of the kids who did harder drugs in college, there seemed to be no rhyme nor reason of if you went to private or public school. I think by the time you’re in college, if you’re gonna do coke you’re gonna do coke and it doesn’t matter where you went to high school.
Seventh Sister
My public high school was pretty much pot and beer, only a few had access to anything more complex. The local parochial high school (the only private high school in the county) was the place for coke and any other illegal drugs you wanted to obtain. Drugs were around but it wasn’t a huge deal and drunk driving was the big killer, not overdoses.
When I got to my fancy private women’s college in the 90s, there was some coke use but it was mostly girls from big cities who had dealers in high school. Plenty of fairly open pot use by all sorts of people, but alcohol was the main recreational drug (alcohol was the main recreation in law school lol). The college claimed to draw half of its students from private schools and half from public, but nearly all of the kids from public schools were from exam or magnet schools.
Anon
Yeah, everyone has known forever and ever that if you want coke, you get it from rich kids.
Anonymous
I do think a lot of this is down to personality. I grew up working class, and my husband grew up UMC. We’re now both pretty high earners, and I worry a lot about how to raise my kid in a very different socioeconomic world than the one I grew up in…and then I look at my husband. He is an incredibly hard worker and generally pretty frugal guy. His brother is not, and has exactly that warped sense of reality/normalcy that a few people have mentioned. (He actually has a well-paying job, but still spends all his time whining about how it’s not enough and asking for help from his parents, because he wants more luxuries.) There is some more family dysfunction there I’m not getting into, but they did grow up in the same family and came out with very different attitudes. And that makes me think our influence as parents isn’t absolute here, although I do try!
My kid is only 10 so I have no idea how this will pan out long term for us, but I already try to talk honestly and openly about what life costs and the kinds of work that we do for it, and also how we had a very different lifestyle when we were younger (I think some of my BIL’s skewed expectations are because he was born after his parents’ lives became very smooth, but I know that wasn’t always the case when they were younger). And also, yeah, we’re “rich” and he’s not. His future car is the Prius that I’m driving now. We love to travel as a family (for me and my husband, it’s really valuable as quality time), but he usually gets treated to some reminiscing about how the last time I was in X city, I was staying at a hostel with 16 people in the room so I hope he gets that this isn’t something you just magically always get to have. Also, we have pretty economically diverse friends and family, and I think that helps too – my son knows we absolutely respect everyone’s work and lots of different financial lives are normal and there isn’t one “better” way.
Anonymous
My parents are very wealthy but made a point to give me nothing. I got my first fast food job at 14, they never bought me a car, or paid for anything non essential. I was responsible for paying for the entirety of my post secondary education. I’m currently early 30s and I have a bit of a strained relationship with my parents. They consider mr successful because of their parenting, I considered myself successful inspite of their parenting. They will go into a home when the time comes, I live many hours away from them. Working in bars to pay rent and make my tuition payments was very hard on me. I did manage to escape university with minimal loans thanks to working, but it came at a huge cost. Tricking frat boys into buying expensive shots didn’t teach grit or improve my character, it just taught me I can’t trust anyone.
Anon
I came from nothing financially, honestly less than nothing, so I have been a striver my whole life. I watched my childhood next door neighbors’ kids take over and destroy the business their parents had built because they had no work ethic. I never wanted my kids to be like that, even though I worked my way into the upper middle class. But I also didn’t want them to worry constantly about money like I did when I was a kid/teen.
We have always told them what we would pay for (college, in-state, room and board till you’re out of college) and what our expectations are for them as young adults (get a job, support yourself.) They’ll inherit money when their dad and I kick off, but they have no expectations of us supporting them as adults or helping them to buy houses, etc.
Anon
My parents had nothing when they started off but were very disciplined at saving and budgeted and worked themselves up to be more than comfortable by the time I went to college. I saw that modeled for me, and think I am also very good at saving and stretching a dollar and sussing out needs vs wants (though lifestyle creep is real…)
I definitely have no expectation my parents will help, but because they can afford it they often do, and it means a lot to my husband and me in this season of raising little kids and working hard. Nothing enormous like a house down payment, but still significant amounts that took the edge off… $10K to help furnish our first home, $5K when we bought a minivan, another few thousand when our son needed some medical care. These were all complete surprises but really helped. They also rent a beach house and we have a big family vacation with my siblings each summer (basically our only vacations.) So, if you can afford it I wouldn’t take a stand of “I am not giving my kid anything until I die” out of principle, but be open to these sorts of gifts (if you want to). I don’t think it’s hindered my work ethic at all.
Anon
We are not doing “I am not giving my kid anything until I die” to be mean. We are doing it to be realistic. Don’t depend on us for your lifestyle, and don’t take on anything you can’t afford. We have no idea how much money we will need for our later years given the costs of long term care, if one of us gets Alzheimers, etc.
anon
I know several peers, and some have become pretty good friends, who grew up in really strong, in some cases extreme, wealth who are some of the hardest workers I know. I was not around for their upbringing so I can’t speak to what their parents did to instill that in them, but I know their parents worked their tails off, too. There was always an expectation of working and earning your keep, regardless of what has been provided to you.
Anonymous
Why would a kid need Uber eats? What’s wrong with teaching your kids to pack a granola bar and eat a sandwich at home. And yeah three international vacations a year is a lot.
Anon
Yeah, there is no way I’d be paying for my kids’ uber eats! There is food at home!!
I make good money and I never order Uber Eats because of how expensive it is. But, my cousin is about 5 years younger and when he was in college my aunt and uncle would always complain about his high Uber Eats bills and how money was tight. It blew my mind – he had a meal plan! I am not that much older, but take out was such a rare treat in college (and we’d only go places we could walk to and pick it up to save on delivery costs).
Anon
My sense is the parents view this as “outsourcing” and a favor to them – they don’t have to make dinner or grocery shop for snacks. But that is how you raise spoiled kids. And I can’t quite put my finger on why, but that feels like entitled adults, too
Seventh Sister
Maybe it’s because I grew up in a subdivision that was so far from an actual town that pizza delivery wasn’t a thing until I was in high school, but I always, always feel odd about having someone deliver food to my house. I’d rather just go pick it up. It feels wasteful to make someone come all that way.
Anonymous
My parents seemed to think it was a sin to have food delivered. They always went to pick up the pizza. I still feel weird about having food delivered and almost never do it.
Seventh Sister
I’m glad I’m not the only one! I have no problem with other people making food for me, but somehow the delivery seems weird. It’s probably some kind of intergenerational thing – even going to restaurants made my little Dust Bowl grandma uncomfortable.
Anonymous
With food delivery, you can easily see all the inflation, additional fees, and also unnecessary packaging. I think food delivery is really an in your face action that is obviously unsustainable for individuals to use all the time. Getting a daily Starbucks is such a smaller footprint.
Seventh Sister
My sense is that it’s not the specific things but the general landscape/level of supervision. I had a car in high school and will probably get a car for my high school kid, but there is no universe in which I would be OK with paying for unlimited Uber eats. And there are certainly parents that allow it. My upper-middle-class kid went to a precollege program last summer and was fascinated/appalled that a kid had apparently spent 1k on food delivery.
That said, I think a lot of people right out of college don’t drop neatly into a career or a graduate program and that’s been true for a long time.
Anonymous
It’s true that some young adults have always taken a while to find their way, but the differences are 1) their definitions of acceptable living standards and acceptable employment are much higher than in previous generations, and 2) the cost of living is so high and entry-level wages are so inequitable (massive salaries for the chosen few hired through OCI, nothing for everyone else).
gap year
granted my oldest is only 7, but I will encourage (maybe incentivize?) her to take a gap year before college to live in the real world, support herself a bit, have some fun a bit and explore. Paying for college for an 18 year old feels like a horrible investment. I met a girl who worked in housekeeping at resort in Canada for a few months, one who worked at a summer camp in France, my mom laid bricks for a summer and you better believe that fueled her work ethic for 45 years. Now that kids can stay on health insurance till 26, what is the rush?
anon for this
Job seeker help: I joined a large company and within the first quarter of my starting in the role, the leadership changed. They laid off my manager, re-orged my team, and moved me to a new department. The new scope of my role is undetermined, but in speaking with my new leader, the previous leader/strategy is totally out of line with where the company is now moving. I want to start job hunting immediately but how would you handle this on a resume and in interviews? Should I write that I was re-orged so suddenly after joining or answer that in the interview? I think it looks strange that I just started a role and am now hunting, but it is what it is. Any tips would be appreciated.
Anon
Why don’t you see what happens first? These changes aren’t always negative. You could end up moving up faster when things are getting reorganized.
anon for this
It’s possible but my sense is that they don’t know what to do with me, and it seems like the old leader poisoned the well with the radically different direction (i.e. started a number of projects we now need to wrap up/close out)
Anonymous
I think looking makes sense and you can easily say that immediately after starting your department was re-org’d and the role is no longer going to be what you were hired for.
I would also network at your current company within your new department and see if you could take on a project better aligned with your current leaders’ plans. I mean they have you as headcount at the end of the day and may not be able to backfill if the company is re-org’ing. Try to pivot.
Anon
I left a 20 year job during a reorg, which would have been a lateral for me, but wasn’t something I wanted to do. Everyone I interviewed with understood that completely.
ABanon
You could consider leaving them off your resume as you won’t have any achievements or anything there yet. You left your previous company for an opportunity that didn’t pan out.
Anonymous
I think I’m going to be job hunting for a new attorney position next year (former big law, current big fed). I am on the earlier side of mid career and am trying to figure out what I’m looking for.
Would love books, podcast, etc recommendations for someone in this stage of the discernment process.
Anonymous
Working Identity by Herminia Ibarra
Anon
I’d rather just wear a proper henley.
Dress
Wanted to share book recommendations that are light reads with great humor for working moms: Kristin van Ogtrop’s Just Let me Lie Down and Did I Say That Out Loud? She has a great perspective and is affirming while also real about the struggles. I’d been in a serious reading slump and these are the first books I’ve been more interested in picking up to read than scrolling through Twitter.
Anonymous
Thanks for the rec! One of my other favorites in that vein is How Not to Hate Your Husband After Kids- it’s really funny but I also learned a lot.
Party dress
I’ve been invited to a dinner party and the theme is “Gothic Victorian.” Costumes are encouraged. Rather than buying a full on Halloween costume, I’m looking for a winter/fall fabric dress that somewhat fits the theme but that I could re-wear this season. Any suggestions for specific dresses or stores to look at? So far I’ve ordered the Somerset Maxi Dress – mock neck edition in the green from Anthropologie. But looking for other suggestions if that one doesn’t work out. Thanks.
Cat
I’d be all over black lace and dramatic necklines for this. Here’s two that you could split up to wear less dramatically with other things
Lucky sizes- https://www.hillhousehome.com/collections/matching-sets/products/the-olympia-skirt-black-lace
https://www.hillhousehome.com/collections/matching-sets/products/the-grace-nap-top-black-textured-dot
Anonymous
You could wear the square neck top with skinny pants too. I look for a mini top hat with veil/fascinator or maybe a lace parasol. I would try to wear whatever white or black pieces you already have and add accessories. Also an updo would be more victorian unless you’re going for a broadway extra in Sweeney Todd.
Anon at 12:25
I’d probably look for something from The Vampires Wife on the resale market.
My second choice https://www.hillhousehome.com/collections/all-dresses/products/the-viviana-nap-dress-fuchsia-lucky-charm
Anonymous
Jewel tones would be Gothic Victorian with the addition of some black lace or mesh and a cinched waist.
A dramatic black lace or black mesh veil pinned in your hair or to a headband will make a big impact. A black tulle overskirt with a lace bodysuit too, Wednesday Adams style. A black fan or lace umbrella. Maybe a little lace tucked in your decolletage.
Something like this can be made Gothic:
https://www.lkbennett.com/product/DRDEBORAHCOTTONMIXBlueBlue~Deborah-Blue-Cotton-Cord-Dress-Blue
Wednesday Adams style dress:
https://www.lkbennett.com/product/DRMARRIEVISCOSEMIXBlackBlack~Marrie-Black-Velvet-Spot-Dress-Black
Anon
I know we have some South Asian friends on here… I’m looking for a great moong dal recipe. I love the stuff when I eat out but it’s never as good as I want it to be. I have great Indian grocery stores in my city, so getting the spices is not a problem. Care to share? Or maybe links to recipes/websites you generally like?
Calrayo
I use My Heart Beets for a lot of dal recipes. I can’t recall if I’ve done her moong dal specifically but generally I’ve found her recipes to be successful.
Anon
Ooh, chaat recipes too! Have you made any of those?
Calrayo
I’ve made a bunch of the onion masala-based recipes, and I love the Punjabi chikar cholay!
Seattle Freeze
Check Cook with Manali – wide variety of dal recipes, some for instant pot. Very reliable recipes and clear instructions.
Anon
How do you make yourself feel better when you find out something very disappointing, sad, frustrating, etc? My usual things like running, digging into a hobby, watching a movie, and eating cookies don’t seem like they’ll work so I’m looking for new ideas.
Anon
A volunteer service project? Manual labor like yardwork?
Anon
+1 to manual labor. Manual labor or a house deep cleaning or a doozy of a house project tend to help me feel productive, which is usually a good step to feeling better.
Anonymous
+1 for rage cleaning. I prefer rage organizing/purging to actual cleaning. The madder I am, the more garbage bags I generate.
Anon
Spending time with friends and talking about it.
Anon
Walking, talking to friends and loved ones, maybe a weekend or one day getaway to try to put the problem aside and think about new things, at least temporarily.
Don’t cut bangs right now!
Anon
Good point about the bangs! Never cut your hair when you’re in a crisis!
Anon at 12:25
I go for the very prosaic of a cup of tea in my pajamas, curled up on the sofa with a mindless novel.
ABanon
Journal all my most hateful, dark, etc, ideas then tear them up and throw it away.
Anon
Bake bread. I really slam it around. Then enjoy warm bread with butter.
Anon
is anyone else in m – d all day?
Anon
(screaming) My daughter got her bar exam results this morning and she passed with flying colors! I keep tearing up! So happy for her. I wasn’t worried, but she was. She moved into her Big Girl apartment over the weekend and starts her BigLaw job next week. I am so happy and excited for her!
Anon
Yay!!!!
Anon
Congratulations! Are you the mom who was worried her daughter was studying too hard? That hard work paid off! Wonderful news.
Anon
Yes, I think that was me! I was trying to get her to take a break once in a while and she wouldn’t. The hive advised me to stop bugging her, and I did. I remain grateful for the perspective!
Anon
Congratulations!
Anon
Does anyone have compression (zipper) packing cubes? Do they compress enough to feel worth it?
Anonymous
I have Osprey compression cubes. I’d say they’re reduced to maybe 2/3 of their original height when compressed. Works well for jersey materials, socks and underwear. I don’t use for stiff fabric like jeans, or for blazers or blouses that would have to be pressed if they got wrinkly.
Anon
Thanks – I have to pack for a 2 week work trip in a carryon. Luckily it’ll mostly be field work, which is all compressable clothing. But, I also need to save space for bulkier things like boots and a decent jacket so was looking into these.
Anon at 2:04 again
They make a difference compared to regular packing cubes. I’ve stopped using those for carryon. You will have more flexibility to work around the boots with rolling items. The compressed cube will be a different sort of bulky item. Nice to stack or stash in a backpack, but not worth buying a lot of them for what you describe.
Anon
No, I have a hard sided bag and that compresses my stuff enough. I found adding packing cubes in the end was just adding another thing to my luggage, not reducing it. I do know some people use those for organization, but I don’t seem to need that kind of organization. My cosmetics/toiletries are in bags separate from my clothing & in the covered compartment of my roller, so that’s the only special bag I use within the roller.
Anon
I’ve liked regular packing cubes for organization, but I’m wondering if it’ll be better to compress things to save space.
Anonymous
I tried zipper compression cubes and I find I like the rollable vacuum bags a lot better. You will need a travel steamer but I’m able to pack so much more in a small suitcase so it works out.
smurf
I had zipper ones and didn’t feel like they did much/any compressing. I bought some super cheap ones from tjmaxx that look like giant ziploc bags for my last trip – not nearly as cute but they actually saved a lot of space. agree that things like knits, sweatshirts, etc. compress much more than jeans, etc.
Anon
Does anyone have any good stretches that work on a stressed out upper back and neck? My place is fully booked for the week.
ABanon
IDK about stretches, but I’m a big fan of the Gaiam “dual zone back roller”
Anon
Yes yes yes! I just passed my yoga teacher final exam and I will enthusiastically help! Look up Eagle arms. The key once you get into the pose is to pull your arms away from your body while pulling your chin down gently. Also try some cat-cows with emphasis on the cat. Push your arms into the mat and pull your shoulders away from your ears.
Ragdoll pose will help stretch out your upper body. Remember not to hunch your shoulders; let everything fall away.
Sit comfortably on the floor. Sit up straight. Right ear toward right shoulder. Place your right hand on your head and let the weight pull it down slightly as you inch your left hand out away from your body, feeling the stretch on the left. Repeat other side.
Now let your head hang to the front. Straight spine through the lumbar and thoracic regions, but drop your head. Chin to chest, gently. Clasp your hands on your head and pull down slightly, letting the weight stretch out your neck.
Calico Cat
Try Yoga with Adriene’s “Neck, shoulders, and upper back” video. Also, puppy pose.
Anonymous
Heating pad.
Anon
Open books, thread-the-needles, and shoulder rolls with cactus arms.
Job hunting in CA
I think I messed up working with a recruiter and I’m wondering if anyone has any advice.
I’ve seen this recruiting company post a number of jobs on LinkedIn and some of them seemed a little odd in the way not great recruiters can be. Nondescript job listings that look more like they’re gathering resumes than looking to fill an actual opening, reposting the same job every couple of days, closing listings after less than a week with only one or two applicants, etc. I decided I didn’t have much to lose applying to one legit-looking job opening that I liked but didn’t love. I then got an email asking me for more info which directed me to a chatbot asking screening questions. When a person actually called me several days later he told me about the job and I was able to verify it was an actual opening at a firm I know of. I don’t know why but I overlooked all the red flags and said he could submit my resume to the company.
Less than a day later I’m getting cold texts from another recruiter at the same company about openings that have nothing to do with my experience (think space law vs. criminal defense).
I’m now having second thoughts about how well a recruiter from a company like this could represent me and my interests and am wishing I had applied to company directly.
The recruiter already submitted my materials, so I’m SOL on this job unless I work with them, right?
smurf
yep if you’ve already been submitted, don’t try to go around them
I’ll say – as it doesn’t sound like this is a super high level selective recruiter (like a c-suite exec recruiter situation) — when we receive resumes from our recruiter partners, the only reflection is on them with how good the candidates are, I think nothing of if the candidate chose a good recruiter or whatever!
Job Hunting in CA
That’s reassuring! I’ve figured out this place is a resume farm and I was worried it would reflect poorly on me.