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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Milano-Stitch Johnny-Collar Sweater

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A woman wearing a black and white stripe sweater

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Is anyone else delighting in the return of sweater weather?

(Or maybe I’m just looking for an excuse to pronounce it “Sweatuh Weathuh” like Amy Poehler and Maya Rudolph on that old SNL sketch?)

This johnny-collar sweater from Talbots would be a great business casual pick as the weather starts to turn. Pair it with some trousers and loafers for a more formal look or with dark denim if you’re in a more casual setting.

The sweater is on sale for $52.12 at Talbots and comes in misses sizes XS-XL, petite sizes P-XL, plus sizes X-3X, and plus petite sizes X-3X. (It comes in five solid colors and three stripey versions.)

Sales of note for 3/26/25:

  • Nordstrom – 15% off beauty (ends 3/30) + Nordy Club members earn 3X the points!
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale + additional 20% off + 30% off your purchase
  • Banana Republic Factory – Friends & Family Event: 50% off purchase + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 50% off select styles + extra 50% off all sale
  • J.Crew – 30% off tops, tees, dresses, accessories, sale styles + warm-weather styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Shorts under $30 + extra 60% off clearance + up to 60% off everything
  • M.M.LaFleur – 25% off travel favorites + use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – $64.50 spring cardigans + BOGO 50% off everything else

290 Comments

  1. Speaking of Talbots, the flannel suit I ordered from there came (pants and jacket) and is fantastic! Warm, lined, cozy and fits perfectly. I’m 5’4 and ordered petite everything. Only nitpick is it arrived extremely wrinkled and I will have to steam it or maybe just have it pressed at the cleaners. Highly recommend.

    2. I got a pair of the flannel pants too and love them – outstanding to find a pair of lined pants!

    3. I ordered the pants, but didn’t love them – the pleats were too much for me and they were also so wrinkled. I’m sending them back.

    4. This is really helpful. Thank you for sharing.

      Conversely, I just got a pair of beautiful wool Sezanne pants that looked great on Princess Kate. The material with thin, itchy, and despite arriving looking pristine, after sitting once they were a mass of wrinkles and lost their shape. They were not cheap either. Sezanne is off my list. On to Talbots.

  2. Question re: something new to me. I had my hair colored at the salon the other day and the hairdresser had an assistant who washed my hair, did a gloss and also helped blow dry it. Usually I tip the hairdresser 20% and the person who washes my hair $5-10. But under these circumstances how much am I supposed to to\i[ the assistant? I gave her $20 which was about 10% of my service but not sure what was appropriate.

    Also, second question. This was to cover some grays and a few hard to see spots at the temples got missed. Can I go back to correct? I don’t normally return but I feel like the whole reason I’m paying to have someone do this is so that everything gets covered.

    1. That tip seems generous to me, and yes you can definitely ask them to fix the missed spots.

  3. When people tell you they are, I believe them. It’s a lesson learned the hard way. There is a kid from school who was the ringleader in bullying my autistic child in person and by text. A lot of kids approached went along with it. My kid insists that this kid has changed in the year since happened and that they are now friends. I’m not having it. If they can talk at school, fine. But that kid is not welcome at our house and my kid will not be socializing any outside of school. I read all texts since before the bullying. My sense is that bully kid eventually acted out against too many peers to be welcome or wanted as a friend and circled back to the austistic kid who is hungry for anyone to be nice vs actually wanting a real friendship.

    There are billions of people in this world and 2000 kids at school, so no need to go running back to this person. My kid does not get this (high schooler now).

    1. I don’t know. My 8th grade mean girl became my best friend in 10th grade and we stayed super close, to the point of being maids of honor in each others weddings. I’m not the only person I know who has a story like this. Middle school and early high school is just a horrible time for a lot of kids and they do grow and mature. I think it’s good to have your eyes wide open about this person, but saying they can’t see each other outside of school seems a little extreme to me.

      1. I mean, there is mean and there is mean. I was unkind to one girl I later became good friends and was guilty about it for decades even after apologizing. It was wrong and I was stupid in 6th grade. Older teens and cyber bullying in a group is different.

        If it were a dating relationship, I am much more one-strike and you are out. Above seems much less vanilla than typical (ringleader of bullying group now out of options vs being truly sorry). Why wait for the other shoe to drop?

    2. I agree. I’ve forgiven people who say they have changed and things got even worse: the offender not only started up to their old tricks, they used closeness to me to lie about me to third parties.

    3. Well, your kid may have to learn the hard way, too. But I will say, that sometimes kids make horrible mistakes and do grow and learn. I say this as someone whose kid has experienced bullying in the past and has been able to make peace with a couple of those individuals. Do I feel particularly warm toward those kids? No, not really. But ultimately, I don’t want to micromanage my kids’ friendships.

    4. Genuinely asking this since I am not a parent: shouldn’t this ultimately be up to your kid if they want to forgive the friend and give them a second chance?

      I can see that you have an added layer of protectiveness since your child has autism and I trust that you know your situation way better than this internet stranger, but just from what we have here it seems a little overprotective. The frustration you must feel that it has to be THIS KID who your kid wants to be friends with is probably agonizing, but is it really the lesson you want your kid to learn that people (kids even) can’t change and grow into better people? High school kids are still figuring out who they are. I think “when people tell them who you are believe them” is best suited for adult relationships.

      Hugs though. It seems like in the high school years parents gradually have to shift from protectiveness to supportive as kids grow into adults and that must be so difficult to navigate as a parent.

      1. The OP said that her son is “hungry for anyone to be nice,” which isn’t the same thing as this person being a good friend to her kid.

      2. I mean the kids can be friends, but you don’t have to facilitate things. Once they can drive though . . .

        Letting it wither in the vine vs demanding that kid not have contact at all seems to maybe be a middle ground. Frosty is sometimes OK.

      3. I agree that it’s the kid’s decision. It’s an important part of growing up to figure out questions like whether to forgive someone for how they have wronged you. Navigating those relationships is something that needs to take place independently. Parents can offer support for the decisions that have been made or express their concerns, but I don’t think they should make from rules for kids at high school age. I make an exception for making a rule about not wanting the bully under your own roof.

        1. my eighth grade son has a best friend who isn’t so nice. I say pretty regularly that for me if a friend isn’t nice then they aren’t your friend and that life is hard enough, your friends should build you up not knock you down but I drive him and he’s at our house. ultimately people need to make their own choices. if he was really dangerous it would be different but if my kid wants to let it roll when he makes jokes that are at his expense i guess that’s a choice he can make for himself.

      4. I agree completely. I had my worst arguments and fights in middle school and high school with the people who are some of my best friends now, decades later. These are growing pains.

        I knew a girl who was a giant bully when we were kids, and then we were good buddies in high school. It is a part of the process.

        Honestly I would rather have the kid over so I could spy on their interactions…

    5. Unfortunately you just gotta let it happen. I’m ASD, highschool is probably just gonna be bad. Puberty was good to me so all the boys manic-pixie-dreamgirled me and all the girls hated me, it was a damaging and lonely experience, but teenagers are little monsters and you can’t make them not be.

      1. I agree except I don’t want to blame teenagers for what may be the fault of the school environment. I made close friends as a teen on the spectrum who wasn’t made to attend school, but I’m pretty confident I would have had a very rough time in school!

    6. As another mom of a high schooler who is neurodivergent – you need to butt out of this, mom. I understand that there’s a temptation to lean on the neurodivergence as an excuse for “they need my advocacy; they can’t handle this themselves” but trying to prevent this friendship will backfire on you, big time. Nothing motivates a teenager to do something like being told they can’t do it. Let your child figure out how to navigate their own friendships and figure out who is not to be trusted. You can offer advice, but trying to micromanage your child’s peer relationships is a bad idea. I’m sorry you and your kid are going through this. But this too shall pass, and on the other side of it – I think your child will thank you for being a supportive but non-interfering presence, if you can get yourself into that place.

      1. Yes, well said. I get the temptation to bear down and spare your kid from being hurt, but this is a process they need to go through. I say this as a parent to a neurodivergent teen, so I get the strong feelings of protection. But, we aren’t doing them any favors by trying to control their relationships. Provide guidance and support? Of course. But outright banning people? I’d be VERY careful about that.

        1. This isn’t seeming like a ban. More like a tepid acknowledgement of interactions that you aren’t rushing to help grow. I get also not being available to drive a teen to a bad friend’s house (of any sort, like Liam who Drinks Already in our area or Matt with the parents who never are home when a group of teens are over). I might let the kid to go things I’m at or the driver for, just to keep eyes on and the leash loose, so to speak.

    7. One day your child will trust someone they shouldn’t. Evaluating someone’s character is difficult for everyone, but your child’s neurodivergence may make it even more challenging for them. They have to learn and sometimes that comes through trial and error. It is much better for them to learn now, when you can monitor the situation and intervene if something truly goes off the rails, than to go out in the world never having thought to question whether some smooth talking person is trustworthy. You cannot substitute your judgment for your child’s their entire life, and even if you could you shouldn’t because sometimes you’ll get it wrong too.

    8. Its really important to note that one reason kids go along with bullying is that at least its some interaction with other kids- bad attention is occasionally worse than no attention.

      If your high-school aged kid is trying to cultivate this kid, I wouldn’t squash that, but offering other choices could help lessen the dependence on this other kid. Is there any way to get your kid into a sport or club with a fresh batch of kids? Or a support program with other autistic kids?

    9. I believe in when people tell you who they are believe them, but not for children. They’re not fully formed yet. I think you need to give your kid some rope here.

    10. I have a son on the spectrum, so I get this. My son was terribly bullied in middle school, to the point that we home schooled him for a year and changed high schools. It would be helpful to your son to discuss goodness, character, kindness, etc., and to ask him to evaluate this person for these and other characteristics. Ask him how this person is positive toward him. Discuss the importance of having good people in one’s life. Let him know (as you) that you do not like this kid, and you are hesitant to allow this kid back into your son’s life. People on the spectrum long for relationships, and as they lack social awareness, can tolerate behaviors that they should not. Coach your son how to evaluate, and work toward letting him make his own decisons.

  4. Thank you for the feedback yesterday on helping my loved one deal with stage 4 cancer. Follow-up question on the insurance piece. She obviously does not want to have to find new doctors in the middle of this when she loses her employer-sponsored plan. There is a plan on the marketplace that looks reasonable and all of her providers would be in network. If someone is eligible for Medicare, can they still buy a non-Medicare plan on the marketplace? Or does that not make any sense?

    1. I appreciate you want to help your friend and I think that’s very kind of you, but you need to speak to some kind of case manager or professional for these kinds of questions. The advice about a geriatric case manager yesterday was very good. Her hospital may also have recommendations.

      1. +1 this is a complex situation with really important consequences- getting an expert on board will only help.

    2. Do her doctors not take medicare? Definitely recommend talking to the hospital. My mom has been at several major cancer centers both before and after medicare.

    3. You can’t have a marketplace plan if you have Medicare. Medicare enrollees can buy Medigap (or supplemental) policies. There are several different types of Medigap plans to choose from, with varying levels of coverage.

    4. I have an agent for my marketplace plan, and I met her because she helped my husband with his Medicare supplemental plan. I don’t have to pay her, she earns commission from the insurance companies. I’d definitely find an agent specializing in this in your state.

      I adore my agent and have referred many friends to her. The marketplace is truly a godsend for me. Otherwise I’d still have to work for The Man instead of being able to start my own small business.

      If you’re in CA I’m happy to share her contact info – just post a burner. Otherwise, try to find a good one in your state. Honestly I don’t think next door is good for much but since it seems to be mostly older people on there, that may be a really good place to ask for a recommendation for a Medicare supplement agent, and go from there.

    5. 1. Read her work disability policy and the booklet that came with it; it will explain how it works with other benefits. 2. Read up on COBRA coverage, and see how long it lasts in her state. 3. Visit Medicare.gov to understand when Medicare kicks in. Then come back.

  5. Excellent piece in the NYT today about how we need a better political left (link to follow):

    “On Thursday, Students for Justice in Palestine, a network of pro-Palestinian campus groups, is holding Day of Resistance demonstrations across the United States and Canada. A planning document the group posted online refers to all of Israel as a “settler colony” and says, “Settlers are not ‘civilians’ in the sense of international law, because they are military assets used to ensure continued control over stolen Palestinian land.”

    Perhaps such hideous dogmatism shouldn’t be surprising. The left has always attracted certain people who relish the struggle against oppression primarily for the way it licenses their own cruelty; they are one reason movements on the left so reliably produce embittered apostates. Plenty of leftists have long fetishized revolutionary violence in poor countries, perhaps as a way of coping with their own ineffectuality. Che Guevara didn’t become a dorm room icon only for his motorcycle and rakish beret.“

    2. I mean, ok, but can we talk about what % of the “left” (or Democrats, progressives, whatever) endorses this BS? Is it like 1%? Less? Of course there is a fringe left wing, but I don’t see the Democratic party voting for neo-fascist wannabe dictators, unlike the “conservatives” in this country.

      1. It’s declining – there’s another article out today about how New York politicians who relied on SJP and similar organizations in the BDS movement are now distancing themselves. At the national level, Ocasio-Cortez is one of several progressives who have done the same. From my layman’s view, I would say this movement had a brief period of ascendancy in the last seven years or so that is now crashing fairly hard.

    3. Jeez I didn’t realize that this was the rhetoric. All the Israelis are combatants / not civilians? No wonder people are finding this anti-semitic.

      Israel has done a lot wrong, but I still don’t think you can say all their residents don’t count as civilians.

      1. Right? It’s reaching for a justification for murdering children and families. No wonder politicians took one look at Sunday’s rally (which took place while the initial Hamas attacks were still going on) and noped out.

        1. Yea apparently thinking babies shouldn’t be beheaded makes us “fanatically pro-Israel.”

          2. I’ve been reading here for over 10 years, and yesterday someone called me a fake or something for saying that. It is truly sick how some people twist themselves over Israel. And only Israel.

          3. That’s not what was said, and you know it. If you want to mischaracterize things in your own mind, to make yourself feel better about whatever it is you’re trying to convince yourself of, feel free. Spreading misinformation is obnoxious at best, and harmful at worst. P.S., sorry it’s so difficult for you to have your pre-determined conclusions challenged.

          4. Same, I’ve been reading here since 2008 or 2009 and was told the same. And the “you’re not really part of this community and you’ve come here just to spread Israeli propaganda” is an antisemitic dog whistle.

          5. I didn’t see anyone countering the actual factual points that were made; I just saw people wailing their heads off about murdered babies and slinging around accusations of anti-Semitism. So apparently, people aren’t interested in having a real discussion about the issues; they just want to engage in some kind of online group therapy, or only have people comment if they’re going to placate their outrage by saying things like “OMG I’m so sorry! You’re right, liberals are so wrong! We’ll try to do better!” If that’s the case – cool, now I know I can just ignore all these posts and not bother even reading what people are saying. It seems to be the same maudlin histrionics over and over, anyway.

          6. Actually it is what happened. At least one person used the exact words “coordinated disinformation campaign” in reference to allegedly pro-Israel comments on this page. And fwiw none of those comments were “pro Israel” in the sense of saying Israeli foreign policy is perfect or even good. We were just saying you should be able to call Hamas a terrorist organization and condemn the attacks.

          7. Anonymous @ 12:12 if you didn’t see anyone countering the “actual factual points that were made” then your reading comprehension is low. Unsurprising given your weird use of semi-colons. Which is quite rich because I think you’re the person who mocked my use of question marks yesterday.

      3. Here is a link (below) to SJP’s toolkit for all campuses to use. Note how it identifies its own students in the United States: “We as Palestinian students in exile are PART of this movement, not in solidarity with this movement.” Recall that the US has identified Hamas as a foreign terrorist organization.

      4. It gets worse. If you apply the same logic to America – the people who are forcefully coming into this country and taking it over aren’t civilians – you’ve justified murdering migrants. America has been a country for almost 250 years, far longer than modern Israel, so it’s not like “but you’re on stolen land” is gonna resonate with people who oppose open borders.

        1. Refugees and asylum seekers aren’t settlers, just like enslaved Africans and descendants aren’t.

          Also, many migrants are indigenous to this land and migrating like their ancestors have for thousands of years, pre-colonial borders.

          1. Anon at 10:57’s comment is so garbled I don’t understand what she’s saying, but there’s no justification for saying that people who were living in an area and then forcibly moved into another area – aka the Native Americans who were moved onto reservations against their will in the 1800s, or slaves that were brought to North America via the diaspora – are somehow in the wrong when they protest what has been done to them. So now apply this to Palestinians, who were not only moved into a segregated area, but then had the area that was given to them breached by the very people who had claimed they would respect the boundary. It would be like me moving onto the Navajo Reservation and saying “this piece of land belongs to me because I say it does.” Do you think the Navajo Nation would have the right to be upset about that? It wouldn’t justify them bombing my house when my family was inside it, because that action is never justified under any circumstances. But I don’t think anyone would be surprised if the Navajo tribe was angry about my claiming a piece of their land, with the justification of “I want it and I need it so it’s mine.”

          2. Migrants are settlers, sorry. And no, they aren’t coming here because it’s their ancestral homeland.

          3. Yeah, and in Israel there have been many Jews there for thousands of years, and many more who came as refugees after the holocaust and then again after stalin’s purges.

          4. Right – the modern state of Israel literally exists because of the mass murder of Jews during the Holocaust. So by any definition (historical, refugees are exempt from being “settlers,” emotional, whatever), Israel has a moral claim to the land.

          5. Do we think refugees and asylum seekers to the US are likely to create their own state?

      5. @Tiana – you may see the phrase “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” Let’s unpack that:
        * river = Jordan River = basically Israel’s eastern border
        * sea = Mediterranean Sea = basically Israel’s western border
        * Palestine will be free = Palestinians will control the entire land mass between the Jordan River and the Med.
        In other words, Israel will cease to exist.

        So when you see someone holding a sign or posting “from the river to the sea,” you can translate that to, “this person wants Israel not to exist.”

    4. I actually think Che being handsome and that image looking as cool as it does has a huge deal to do with it. I think people are woefully and shockingly uninformed. They wear political symbols the same way they wear Nirvana tshirts: unable to name more than one song, if that.

      One reason I vote left and find the right so abhorrent is that the left is calling out the extremism on its side whereas the right is coddling and encouraging theirs.

      1. 1000000000%

        I didn’t have a Che poster, but I knew a lot of kids who did, and ignorance was the reason in 99.999999% of cases. None of them grew up to support terrorists.

      2. I think your last point is a good one, but I would also say that the callouts are way too timid because people are afraid of getting called out themselves. I think the left needs a real reckoning and a firm approach to the hideous people in the party. It’s just not strong enough.

    5. Whatever “left” Goldberg is talking about has no or virtually no political power in this country.

      Contrast that with the MAGA/Trumpist movement which could very well win control of all three branches of the federal government next November.

      1. I don’t think that’s true. They may not be electing people, but they are framing much of the conversation.

        1. What conversation are they framing? Are any elected officials echoing it? Is any policy being made because of it?

          I don’t think you understand what political power means. If they aren’t electing people, they don’t have political power. As reprehensible as these groups are, Goldberg’s argument is a complete straw man.

          1. No, this is untrue. The left framed the entire conversation and election of “the Squad,” to name just one example. Those elected officials were practically in lockstep with the views of the Democratic Socialists of America, one of the most significant groups on the left (and one that has justified the Hamas attacks, predictably).

          2. But the most famous member of the Squad has disavowed any sympathy being expressed for Hamas after these attacks…

          3. Right, because even they have limits. But that doesn’t mean there was no political power on the left that got them all elected in the first place.

          4. The only outfits I see amplifying what they say, or even calling them “The Squad” are the Fox/Newsmax/OANN crowd who uses them as convenient bogey-men/women.

          5. I am cynical but I think AOC only disavowed because of political pressure. I believe she sympathizes with the protestors.

          7. Who knows, but I bet AOC had a real pang of conscience and Omar did not. Omar has been the stronger anti-Israel voice for years. That’s if Omar even made a statement, which I’m not sure about.

          8. “The only outfits I see amplifying what they say, or even calling them “The Squad” are the Fox/Newsmax/OANN crowd who uses them as convenient bogey-men/women.”

            And the person who is doing that in this conversation is doing it as a conservative dog-whistle to get people to condemn liberalism. It’s not hard to see if you go back and read through the discussions. I’m guessing this person is a supporter of the far-right faction of the Israeli government and is looking to deflect any conversation about how the far-right politicians in Israel – some of whom are calling for gender segregation of activities, BTW – have contributed to the current crisis.

          9. Look at Cori Bush’s statement. She hasn’t stepped it back at all as far as I’m aware. I proudly voted for her in the last election and don’t know if I would again.

          10. Lol what?! I’ve used the phrase the squad (not today, but in other threads). I didn’t think it was insulting, they refer to themselves that way. I’m a liberal American who’s never voted for a Republican and never will. The idea that everyone who finds AOC’s politics too left-wing is working on behalf of a right-wing Israeli politician (?!) is truly wild. You realize AOC is politically to the left of about 95% of the US, right?
            And these allegations of a vast Jewish/Israeli conspiracy theory to spread disinformation are super antisemitic and not a good look, even completely setting Middle East politics aside.

    6. Thanks for posting this. It captures a number of things I’ve been feeling but haven’t articulated nearly as well. Just shared it with my two college-age and very progressive kids.

    7. I encourage OP to read about settler colonialism. I don’t like the settlers aren’t civilians military framing in a war because clearly there’s a difference between military members and non. But yes, every settler is passively causing harm by displacing the indigenous residents. By choosing to live in a settler colony, the residents aren’t innocent of any wrongdoing.

      1. I reject that framing completely. I think one of the reasons the left is losing support is because of this frantic insistence that we’re all worthy of becoming victims of crimes because we’re “settlers” or “colonialists” or “oppressors.” I reject that construct and find it irrelevant in today’s world where millions of people live in countries they were not born in or their parents were not born in. I believe in fundamental human rights that are not contingent upon your “settler status.” That doesn’t mean that I don’t care about the horrific atrocities colonists inflicted upon Native Americans, to name just one example – but I don’t believe that that history justifies terrorism against civilians in any part of the world today. I cannot emphasize this strongly enough.

        1. What you are missing is that many Israeli settlers have moved onto Palestinian land in the last year or five years or ten years. We aren’t talking about land that was stolen hundreds of years ago. You can’t equate that with the situation of Native Americans in our country (which is bad enough). Are you saying that Palestinians who have been dispossessed of their land should just shrug and move on?

          But I completely agree that terrorism (which by definition means an attack on civilians for political purposes) is wrong and immoral and unjustified.

        2. You’re conflating 2 things. Yes, everyone has fundamental human rights. Yes, stolen land is still stolen. Occupied land is still occupied. Colonized land is still colonized. There is no time limit when the clock resets and these past harms related to taking of land cease to exist. Past harms of colonization continue today in the form of systemic inequalities.

          Terrorism isn’t justified. Terrorism is a reaction to systemic inequalities. It’s the wrong reaction, to be clear. There are other choices and reactions.

          The choices aren’t: (1) no terrorism, Gazans continue suffering under the status quo or (2) terrorism.

          1. “Occupied land is still occupied. Colonized land is still colonized. There is no time limit when the clock resets and these past harms related to taking of land cease to exist.”

            I suspect the Jewish diaspora would agree with this but find it interesting that you do not recognize their claims to the land.

          2. My family are part of the Jewish diaspora who don’t support Zionism. The Jewish diaspora isn’t a monolith.

        3. I don’t think this person is saying this part — “we’re all worthy of becoming victims of crimes”. I think it’s possible to acknowledge that someone, at the very least, benefited from atrocities without saying that they are responsible for them or should have violence done on to them.

          For example — my family is from Russia. My great grandparents were subsistence farmers in various villages. Their children (all 4 of my grandparents) attended universities and some even continued on to graduate degrees, and all had professional careers. The reason for this is because Stalin got rid of — by imprisoning and murdering — most of the intellectual class, and intentionally brought in kids from the countryside from non-educated families to fill the universities (my grandparents!). As I sit here today, I benefit from this. Being 3rd generation attending higher education, growing up in a home where people spoke with proper grammar and read books, where going to college was expected, has given me my parents and then me advantages (even though I attended college in a different country and language). And I obviously don’t think that Stalin’s brutal murders are the fault of me, my parents, or my grandparents, or that any of us are deserving of violence.

          1. “I don’t think this person is saying this part — “we’re all worthy of becoming victims of crimes”. I think it’s possible to acknowledge that someone, at the very least, benefited from atrocities without saying that they are responsible for them or should have violence done on to them.”

            this +1000

        4. Just recently we had somebody explain that the victim of a violent mugging has to come to terms with how really, they were the oppressor in this scenario. There has to be a way to acknowledge privilege without telling people that if they’re threatened or robbed, harassed or assaulted by anyone poorer than them, really they have it coming? But I guess people wouldn’t identify as leftists in the first place if they had a problem with guillotining people based on class status.

          1. Careful, your right wing bias is revealing itself. I think you’re supposed to do some more emotional pleas to “think of the children” before you lure people into condemning liberalism outright.

            Just curious – are you a fan of the “Red Caesar” movement in the US? Or do you think it’s just Israel that can benefit from totalitarianism?

      2. Israel and the occupied territories are not one and the same. Or are you trying to say that all of Israel is occupied territory??

      3. Serious question: When does one stop being a settler? And if it extends past a generation, where do you expect people to go?

        Look we can argue all day about whether (modern) Israel should have been created back in the 1940s and whether the Western powers were justified in re-distributing lands they seized from the Ottomans at the end of WWI. Just like we can argue all day about the US/Canada/Australia and much of South and Central America. And that is just the past 4-5 hundred years. It has been almost 100 years in Israel. Those people are there and they are not leaving (and I am not sure where they could legally go). Any discourse that fails to recognize that guarantees that the fighting never ends.

        It is the reality of human history that people move. They move for reasons of greed, persecution, climate change, war, famine, and disease. There is not a point in human history in which we can freeze population movement and say “OK – these people’s descendants control this area in perpetuity.”

        Also f*ck Hamas. They started this knowing full well what Israel’s response would be because they do not want peace. Their entire reason for existence is war. Also, they deliberately murdered babies and are holding children hostage and threatening to broadcast their executions.

        2. Just from a Canadian perspective – you will now see anyone who is non- Indigenous referred to as a ‘settler’ in some circles. And there is a ‘land back’ movement here as well.

        3. I agree with all of this. I’ve never understood the end game of the “anti-settler” crowd – as you say, it seems to be suggesting that there is some point at which people should be frozen in place (imprisoned?) instead of exercising their rights to movement. Or is the end game annihilation of the settlers? That’s certainly what Hamas thinks.

          1. I encourage you to do a quick google search on the Land Back movement and decolonial theory in practice, generally, to see that no, literally no one but terrorists are saying decolinization is annihilation of settlers. There’s ample resources if you’re interested in learning how settlers and settler descendants can get involved in these works and movements, in theory and practice.

          2. I posted a link in mod but a classic work is:

            Decolonization is not a metaphor
            Eve Tuck
            State University of New York at New Paltz
            K. Wayne Yang
            University of California, San Diego

          3. Wow. There are some people posting here who are extremely informed about Israel but have not bothered, apparently, to inform themselves about colonialism – which I assure you, almost everyone posting here today has benefited from, at the expense of colonized people. If you do not “believe in” colonization as a concept – bad news, honey; it’s not a matter of opinion. Thanks to Anon at 11:56 who posted resources for people to self-educate – not that I expect most people participating in this discussion to bother with that. Much easier to stay in an entrenched worldview that tells you it’s okay for you to have benefited at the expense of native/indigenous peoples and slaves because colonization isn’t real.

          4. Wouldn’t Jews be the original inhabitants of the land of Israel if you want to use that standard?

          5. “Wouldn’t Jews be the original inhabitants of the land of Israel if you want to use that standard?”

            So let’s say I live in Tucson, Arizona. There is a tribe near Tucson – the Tohono O’Odham Nation – that has a reservation near there, because historically, that was their land – they lived on that land, hunted, fished, raised families, etc. But I don’t live on the reservation; I live on a regular ol’ street in Tucson.

            One day, my doorbell rings. I open the door, and a Tohono O’Odham Nation tribal member is standing there. He informs me that centuries back, before there were written records, the land my house stands on belonged to his ancestors. He can’t name those ancestors or create a clear path of ownership from that time to the present day. But that’s his land; he wants it; and I need to vacate my property because he’s about to tear my house down. And no, there’s no compensation offered because he doesn’t need to do that; it’s his land.

            Would you be upset about this?

            That’s what’s happened to Palestinians who have had Israeli settlers breach boundaries and come in and take their property. It’s something Native Americans in this country would never, ever be able to do because of racism, and also our property laws. Can you imagine what would happen if the scenario above occurred, involving some good ol’ boy in Tucson who had a couple of guns? It would be a bloodbath. Yet, many people posting here apparently think there’s nothing wrong with this scenario and that the Palestinians should just move out, upon Israeli request, and cede whatever the Israelis want without protest. Your argument about “Jews are the original inhabitants of the land of Israel” isn’t wrong – just like the Tohono O’Odham Nation tribal member wouldn’t be wrong in saying that a house is sitting on his ancestral land. But is that the point? Is it reasonable to expect people to cede land to another person based on an unverifiable claim of ancestral ownership? Now ask yourself – if that was YOUR house – would you think it was reasonable?

        4. “There is not a point in human history in which we can freeze population movement and say ‘OK – these people’s descendants control this area in perpetuity.'”

          Thank you!!!

        5. according to the morons on my social media feeds, the magic year that borders should revert back to is 1946.

        6. +1000. This argument is exhausting to me. The human species originated in sub-Saharan Africa, literally every other place we’ve gone any human is a “colonizer” of the natural world. Is it just first dibs following that migration out of Africa? Our society has evolved so much over the last century but man, now that humans are no longer fighting for their survival on the daily (and, I don’t know, having disputes over territory for the last several millennia) I think some of our extra free time has given rise to some wayyyy overcomplicated intellectual constructs.

          1. Counterpoint: people who have seen their culture and heritage decimated by colonization, and who have been imprisoned, enslaved, forcibly moved, disenfranchised, infected with smallpox, impoverished and kept from moving up in the world because someone else decided they were “inferior” have a problem with what’s happened to them, and are voicing those concerns.

            What’s amazing here is you just outed your deep seated racism and you don’t even understand what you did. Wow. You really need to check yourself. You are speaking about things you do not comprehend from a completely uninformed place, because your own racism won’t allow you to comprehend that white people are not, in fact, right about everything all the time. Disgusting.

          3. Anon @ 3:36 – I am clearly talking specifically about claims of land ownership, not systemic oppression, which is what you are referring to in your first paragraph. The two are not unrelated but distinct. I don’t believe my opinion on the former makes me racist. I would be happy to be educated on the subject but as you jumped straight to name-calling I’m guessing that’s unlikely. Congratulations on making the world a better place!

        7. Exactly! If anyone was doing to white americas what Hamas is doing, no one would hesitate to label them a terrorist.

          And the vast, vast majority of Americans are settlers. But no one is arguing that we have to leave the US because of it, and most of us would have no other country we could go to

        8. Most people are not referring to “settlers” who settled hundreds or even decades ago, but to Israel’s more recent evictions of Palestinians to make way for Israeli settlements. Look up the Sheikh Jarrah evictions for one example.

      4. I see what you are saying and think it applies to many places in the world. There are few places that have not been colonized. I am just wondering, for those who arrived in 1948 and beyond, where are they supposed to go instead?
        And I am also curious how you would view refugees in the context of colonization. I am actually wondering these things, even though it probably sounds like I’m trying to start a debate.

      5. “But yes, every settler is passively causing harm by displacing the indigenous residents. By choosing to live in a settler colony, the residents aren’t innocent of any wrongdoing.”

        I don’t know why this is so difficult for people to understand (well, rational people, of which there haven’t been many in the conversations about Israel this week). A big part of the rage Palestinians feel toward Israelis has to do with the fact that they were relegated into their territory, told “okay, this territory is yours, there’s a boundary, we’ll respect it” and then…the boundary was not respected. Israelis came in and tore down family housing to take over properties. Palestinian families were displaced and left homeless.

        If that happened to you, and your family – would you be upset? Would you think that you had been wronged? If someone then came around saying “jeez, this is terrible, I can’t believe this happened to you! You know, I think we have a solution to make sure this won’t happen to anyone else. It’s pretty drastic, but we think it might work.” Would you maybe think to yourself – okay, this doesn’t sound great, but I’m homeless and my kids are hungry, and I definitely don’t want to see this happen to anyone else. So, maybe I’ll listen to what this person is saying”?

        Israel is running an apartheid government and has segregated the Palestinians. People who are arguing against the basic facts of the situation are revealing themselves as 1. completely partisan to the point of fanaticism; 2. Unable to think critically, and C. utterly lacking in empathy – which they are screaming for people to demonstrate toward Israelis. Do Israel’s poor choices about handling the Palestinian population justify the Hamas terror attacks? Of course not. But nothing happens in a vacuum. You cannot disconnect Israel’s actions from what’s now happening, even if terror attacks are not a reasonable response to apartheid. All of you people who keep screaming your heads of about beheaded babies and how that’s never justified seem to have no ability to grasp that ALMOST NO ONE IS SAYING TERRORISM IS JUSTIFIED and those who have said it are experiencing serious consequences. But people are trying to have a rational conversation about how Israel’s choices in how they treat Palestinians have contributed to this moment, and by shouting down those people with accusations of anti-Semitism, all you’re doing is making people either A. throw up their hands and disengage – which you apparently can’t stand, because it doesn’t fit your narrative of “how people are supposed to support Israel” or B. start thinking that maybe the Palestinians have a point, because if no one is willing to admit that Israel has made some mistakes – how can those mistakes ever be corrected?

        Additionally – the person who keeps talking about the U.S. and stolen land is just revealing themselves as completely uninformed about Native American issues and also completely racist towards Native Americans. Please stop. If I knew who you were in person, I would be screenshotting your comments and sending them to your employer, because I am sure you have Native American colleagues and they should know how you feel about them.

        Also, the person who keeps talking about this as a “left” problem is slowly outing themselves as a conservative nutcase with every subsequent post. Please keep it up! I think we’re only about two posts away from you talking about how to Make America Great Again by owning the libs. I know it’s coming, so just put it out there, and let’s stop dancing around the subject.

        1. It’s baffling to me how so many people on here immediately jump to the conclusion that there is “one person” coming in to try to sway the conversation just because there are multiple posts that you don’t like. I don’t know how many people have to tell you that they are liberals, will only ever vote Democrat, and have a problem with the progressive stance on Palestine at the moment. See: the statement I posted yesterday from the Twin Cities Democratic Socialists of America that was published with absolutely zero acknowledgement of the atrocities committed by Hamas. I know I’m not the only one saying this is a left problem, therefore there are *at least* two of us. Your conclusion that this makes us secret MAGA operatives is quite literally the definition of “hysterical” you are complaining about.

          And by the way, you made a lot of valid points before you went full cuckoo and lost all credibility toward the end there! But people have been acknowledging that this whole time. What Hamas did was unconscionable. Israel’s treatment of Palestinians is frequently inhumane and not sustainable. Great, I think the majority of people agree on that. Since you are so wise and all-knowing, what is your plan to bring peace to the Middle East then? Would love to hear it.

      6. Unless you are Native American you are a settler too. Do you consider yourself and your family to be valid targets who are “not innocent of wrongdoing” because of the harm that you are passively causing to the displaced indigenous persons?

      7. Settlers are inapposite and irrelevant and inapplicable to a discussion of Gaza, specifically — Israel forcibly removed settlers from Gaza years ago and has not and does not “occupy” or colonize” Gaza.

    8. Well, a lot of people have thought this about the far left for some time. I do have some cynicism about people who only care about these stances when an issue comes up that impacts them.

      Although I abhor much of the far left, with a special emotional reaction to Ms. Omar, I do believe that reading their positions makes me think. I can read them and be angry and want change, but also recognize some nuggets of truth. Uncomfortable as this is, I also wouldn’t want it any other way.

    9. I really, really hope this is the Left’s equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church. Gets a lot of press coverage for taking outrageous positions but fairly small in actual numbers.

      2. +1 and honestly, a lot of people need to start ignoring truly tiny factions that upset them. College students have always been know-it-all idiots.

        1. The Boycott, Divest, and Sanctions Movement has over 2,000 organizations in 60 countries. Pew did a survey of U.S. respondents in 2021 and found that 11% supported its goals. 11% of the U.S. population is about 36 million people. I get that it’s tempting to write these people off as crazy extremists with no real support, but they have a lot more support than a rational society should willingly accept.

          1. This. And it’s frustrating to be called hysterical (at best) for being upset about it.

          2. agreed. and even as someone mentioned above that they don’t have real political power, these are the people who often stay home during elections, which then leads to other awful people in power

    10. This satirical headline in the Babylon Bee (a conservative version of the Onion) sums things up pretty well: “Harvard Student Leaves Lecture on Microaggressions to Attend ‘Kill the Jews’ Rally.”

        1. I can’t get over the people who want me to oppose Ukraine saying that they’re concerned about antisemitism in the Ukrainian military, but are now being defensive about Hamas.

    11. It is really eye-opening how so much rhetoric has dehumanized Israelis – do they not have a right to exist, at all, in any part of Israel? Does this mean that the horrors of this weekend that are still ongoing are justified, and to be celebrated? Are the leftists really sanitizing Hamas (see that terrible Chicago BLM post, etc)? That seems to be the logical conclusion of this ideology. Very depressing. I have been reading here since 2008 and am heartened to see others criticizing this part of the left.

  6. If you drive, what car do you have and do you like it? Why? In the market for one after 20 years without one! I was planning on buying a new model (under $35) but if you have a slightly more expensive car you love I’d love to hear about it.

    1. I love my Volvo: safe, reliable, luxurious, loads of cargo space, fun to drive (it has a turbo and sport suspension).

      1. +1 – My husband has a Volvo and we love it. I have a battered Ford Focus that has also been a great reliable car; not luxurious in any way but have been happy with it.

    2. A mini cooper! It’s tiny and mighty. BMW engine and small so you can park anywhere. Plus it’s very cute.

      1. I always wanted one of those. I was too broke to get one as my first car, and now I have a family and it’s not practical. But yes, they are super cool.

      2. I had one about 7 years ago and loved it. Great to drive easy to park. The only weird, weird thing was that it seemed to make other people irrationally angry. My husband and I are still perplexed as to why people thought we were somehow being obnoxious by driving a small car.

      3. I bought a CR-V 2013 when I hauled teens and mother with a wheelchair. Plan on driving it a few more years and would LOVE a mini cooper. My only concern is getting used to being on the ground after having the great sight advantage of an SUV all these years.

        1. This. I did several test drives and I could not adjust to how close to the road I felt. My ability to see the road ahead felt constrained and I had the vision of going underneath a semi. I could not make the switch.

      4. My friend had one when she lived in Chicago. The mini cooper was constantly breaking one way or another, so it was in the shop more often than not. She ended up getting a Lexus soon after. Not sure if her mini was a lemon, but her story has made me cautious of minis…

    3. We only drive Toyotas, in our case Camrys and Corollas. They run incredibly well and require almost no maintenance behind the routine stuff. We just got rid of a ‘99 Camry because we inherited a newer car but I feel like it would have had another 10 or even 20 years in it easily.

      1. I loved our old Toyota Camry, it was so easy to drive and maintain. The only knock my husband had is that it’s not as ‘fun’ to drive which bothered me 0% but he’s definitely into sportier cars.

      2. I have a 20 year old Camry and it’s the best. I bought it used and it’s the first car I ever had, but it’s totally turned me into a Toyota person.

      3. Agreed. I buy the Toyota version of whatever I need now: Mini-van (Sienna), SUV (Highlander, which I drive now), sedan (Camry-until recently, our family owned 2), small sedan (Corolla). Then I drive them into the ground and buy another. My favorite was an AWD Venza. The Venza was discontinued but is now back as a hybrid, which I don’t want. My next car will probably be an AWD Camry, now that they make an AWD version.

        1. Serious question – why don’t you want a hybrid?

          I test drove that Venza before I bought my Volvo wagon and it was pretty nice.

          2. but I love my gas savings on my prius

            and because my prius will drive > 20yrs the repair costs are not bad at all over time.

            I love my 2007 prius.

      4. We have a Toyota Highlander and an old Buick – when the Buick dies we’ll get another Highlander with AWD. Not too big, not too small and reliable.

    4. I don’t drive but my husband drives a Civic and the magic seats are incredible in terms of storage.

      1. for similar reasons I love my honda fit! I will say it’s small for more than 2 people, though. And the easy maintenance is amazing.

        1. My daughter (early 20s in grad school) drives a Fit and I am shocked at how much it … well, fits. She has moved back and forth to undergrad and various apartments several times over the last 5 years and never needed more than one trip. And she’s far from a minimalist.

    5. I have a Subaru outback and I enjoy it, but the main best feature that is also available in other cars is the hatchback design. Also the AWD.

      2. I also have an Outback. 2011 and I will drive it until it dies. (My top EV pick however is the Audi Q4 etron which I will likely buy next year in addition to my Outback).

      3. I got a 2020 Outback earlier this year and I adore it. Love the cargo space, mileage is good, drives beautifully with plenty of zip and corners well (much better than the Forester). I got the mid level trim with heated seats and it’s all I need although I do miss the sunroof on the fully kitted out 2013 Jetta I traded in. I dont miss it having 100K miles and imminent issues. I love buying certified used, I got a good deal including 3 years/50,000 miles left on the powertrain warranty as part of the sale price and with my trade in it was under 20K. 2021 is when Outbacks and Foresters came out with all new models and prices go way up for 21 and up model years. The differences between the 2 model years is not significant to most people.

    6. I have a Subaru Outback and I love it. It’s fun to drive, holds a ton and is extremely reliable. Subaru has just 5 or 6 trim levels – I got the top one which feels luxurious (leather seats! heated steering wheel!) but it was still pretty reasonably priced. It might be a little more than $35K now but you could look at other trim levels too.

      1. Subaru Impreza and also love it. Great for driving in snowy Minnesota winters. My poor Kia Optima could not handle the slightest of inclines when it was icy out. And they hold their value incredibly well, we sold my husband’s last year and it had essentially maintained its purchase price after 3 years (although I know the used car market was crazier then).

    7. Where do you live, how many people do you need to fit, and will you be hauling anything in it (big dogs, ski gear, camping stuff, etc.). I have a child, animals, need to fit ski stuff/beach stuff, and require AWD given there is lots of snow/ice in my area. If you live in a flat sunny area with no children and only drive it solo or with 1-2 friends some of my requirements won’t apply to you.
      All that being said, I find Toyotas, Hondas (or Lexus/Acura if you want the luxury) very easy to drive and reliable. My first car was a Toyota Camry, I have a Toyota hybrid (gas/electric) now, and they’ve always been great. My parents love their Honda Pilot for hauling grandkids and gardening stuff. Our other car is a Lexus SUV which was definitely more expensive but it is also a gas/electric hybrid and the features are amazing compared to the 13 year old Acura MDX we had previously – it’s also amazing how little gas it uses compared to the old Acura.

    8. Mazda 3 with the hatchback and AWD. It’s great. Feels like a fun car to drive, can hold a shocking amount of gear / costco hauls in the back, reasonable on gas, good enough in the winter for driving on snow/ice, small enough it’s easy to park in the city. Downside is that while at 5-8 I find it very spacious, I have driven people over 6 feet who will bump their head.

    9. Odyssey. Perfect height stance on a road with much taller vehicles without having to climb in or squat down, so I can drive in a pencil skirt in Before Times no problem. Drives great. Ultimate utility vehicle. Backseat works for adults and now even SUVs seem pinched even if they have 3 rows.

      Looking to replace with Sienna AWD hybrid and it is shocking to me how expensive everything is now.

    10. I recently leased a VW ID.4 and love it. It’s an electric mid-size SUV. I think it’s under $40 and if you get a base model, maybe closer to $35?

      I get compliments on the aesthetics of it frequently, it drives like a dream, and has a decent range. I only charge to 80% and usually get between 160-220 miles depending on whether it’s highway or city driving.

      Our past 2 cars were Honda Accord Hybrids and we loved those cars, too. Very roomy for a sedan, nice technology, pretty sleek looking.

    11. Honda civic. I love it! It’s just a normal car that works and gets great gas mileage.

      2. +2 for a car in OP’s price range. I owned my Civil for 14 years and it was still running perfectly when I sold it to buy a new car.

    12. I have a Camry hybrid and love it. Plenty of space, rides really quietly and smoothly, and gets great mileage especially for city driving. I plan to hold on to it for as long as possible.

    13. A Prius. Love getting 60 mpg without thinking about it and have found it surprisingly capable of somewhat more adventurous routes than I would have guessed (rough dirt roads to campsites, snowy and icy upper Midwest winter driving). The back seat is a bit snug for bigger kids, but ours are out of the house now and we also do not have a need to haul large loads. Would love a fully-electric model once the charging infrastructure is built out.

      1. Another Prius lover here. Mine is 5 years old with 100K miles and in amazing shape. It has a surprising amount of pickup for a small car and does well in all sorts of conditions. With half the back seat folded down we can fit our family of 3 adult-sized people plus ski gear, cooler, etc. All of the best, most reliable cars we have owned have been Toyotas.

    14. Honda CR-V. I wanted a hatchback because the cargo area is far superior to that of a sedan. Hatchbacks seem to come in two varieties: budget cars and SUV and cross-overs. I went with one of the smaller crossovers because it’s much more comfortable than a budget car. Prioritizing comfort over $ was driven by my longish commute.

      1. I also have a Honda CRV (2014) and I love it. So comfortable to drive. And it’s not super big – I drive it into DC from time to time and have no trouble parallel parking (although the back up cameras help a lot!).

    15. BMW X3 and love it. If you go used, it will be only a bit above your price point. Super fun to drive, big enough that I can fit stuff in it. With the seats down, the area to put stuff is bigger than the small truck bed on a lot of quad cabs. Really appreciate the driver interface, including that I can see the directions and map in the main dash, while other people are playing with the radio.

      1. I’ve been driving my X3 since 2017. It was a loaner vehicle that I bought from the dealer. I just love that thing. It’s getting to the point where I feel social pressure to get a new car but I still love it too much to part with it. I told my husband he can upgrade his newer car first.

        1. My Volvo was the dealer loaner. It had 5,000 miles and some dirty upholstery in the hatch area. They detailed it and took $12,500 off what they were selling a new one for. Sold.

        2. I live in NYC where most people don’t have cars so I’m SO curious about the fact that you feel social pressure to get a new car when you drive a 5-6 year old BMW SUV. Can you describe what you mean? Like are people side eyeing your car, or saying something?

          1. Not the person you responded to but it comes up in conversation frequently enough that you start to feel some pressure. Most of my friends keep cars less than 5 years so car shopping is a common topic. Some people ask when I’m getting a new car with a tone that sounds more like you should do this thing and less like a genuine inquiry, kind of like “when are you getting married/having kids?”

          2. Im glad I don’t know your people. I drive a 2015 and it still feels like a new car to me.

          3. Those people sound awful. – judgement, yet most boring way. I’m glad I don’t know them either.

          4. Omg no not at all. I just live in a fancy suburb and I notice that most people have newer cars. That’s probably because they lease. Also my friends and family are seemingly constantly getting new cars. It’s a topic of conversation, what you drive and do you like it and why so I feel like it’s pretty obvious I’ve been driving the same car for so long. I didn’t really grow up in the culture that other people describe here where thrift is valued for it’s own sake, so no one is shocked that someone would replace a car after a few years. I think most people see me as lazy rather than cheap or broke, which is accurate, so it makes me think I should get a new car.

          5. California?

            I believe in driving cars until they die. It’s more economical and far better for the environment. (The environmental impact of manufacturing and disposing of cars is enormous.)

          6. Yeah, nothing you just said makes me think they are less awful than I thought before.

    16. I love my honda accord hybrid! I’m sure I would have been happy with a smaller hybrid sedan, but having a roomy back seat and trunk IS pretty nice. And it uses SO little gas.

      1. We have a Honda Accord (not hybrid, though we wanted one – bought in 2021 so took what we could get) and LOVE it. The back seat is so roomy for having adults back there. We have kids and we’ve never felt like we don’t have space for the luggage we need for up to ~5 day trips with the family, even when bringing along our full sized stroller. Our friends who all made the leap to 2-row SUVs do – I think the space is just better designed in the Accord. Also, it looks nice – the more recent redesign looks a bit dowdier, but the ~2020 design looks like a much more expensive car. Driving is great too! As reliable as a Toyota but more fun to drive. We always choose from the boring brands (Honda, Toyota, Mazda) since we keep cars for ~10+ years and don’t want extensive repair costs in the out years. One of my friends told me casually that her ~6 year old BMW cost them a couple hundred to maintain each year, and I was just flabbergasted.

        2. What car doesn’t cost a couple hundred to maintain each year? Love my 2010 BMW 528. It’s still going strong. This year I spent about $4,500 on some major repairs including new tires (always expensive no matter what car), but that is the first time I’ve spent any kind of money on it.

        3. Take a look at your manual. It should have recommended service intervals (usually every 15,000 miles), involving anything from fluid changes to brakes to belts.

    17. Kia Soul. Great gas mileage 35mpg, good storage capacity, handles great in snow (with snow tires on), comfortable seats in front and rear even for the long legged in my family.
      I purchased as price was right at the time… 15K….. and have zero regrets.
      My next car will probably be a Volvo wagon or a Toyota idk yet.

      2. My mom just got a small Kia SUV – either a Sorento or a Sportage, I can’t remember – and she really likes it.

      3. Be careful with Kias. I think they can be easily hotwired and stolen, although I don’t know if that’s only for certain models.

    19. I have an Audi A4, and I like it a lot. It has all wheel drive, and I use snow tires in the winter and can drive anywhere safely. The car has a lot of safety features, like cameras and accident avoidance, which I appreciate. It’s also fun to drive.

      1. Another Audi fan. I currently drive an Audi SUV, but my favorite car ever was an Audi A3. I always said my ideal car would be a Honda Civic only tricked out to the max, and that’s what the A3 is — the size of a Civic, but with a powerful engine, all the safety/luxury fixtures, and all the electronics.

      2. Had an Audi A4 for 9 years that I loved. Recently got rid of it and now have a Q4 (EV SUV). I like it a lot, but miss my A4.

    20. Subaru Forester, and yes. It’s the perfect size for me, good gas mileage for not a hybrid/EV (Subaru made neither at the time I bought my car), and AWD is a bonus (also, a heated steering wheel is a thing I did not know I needed until I had it, and OMG it’s amazing). I bought it to replace a Toyota 4Runner that I had had for two decades. I thought I’d get another toyota, but none seemed to be the right size-Outlander felt too big (my mom has a 2013 that is the perfect size, but they have gotten larger), Rav4 and Venza felt cramped in the front seat. Seriously considered a Lexus RX and just couldn’t justify the price with my lifestyle (I have outdoorsy hobbies. My car is regularly used for hauling dirty stuff. The idea of throwing bags of dirt in the back of a Lexus just made me cringe)

    21. ’22 Honda Passport and I love it. It is a space upgrade from my 13-year old CRV without feeling too big. Roomy backseats, plenty of cargo space. I didn’t need or want a third row.

    22. I love my Mazda CX-5. Drives great and feels like a more expensive car. Only downside is not great gas mileage.

    24. Lexus NX350 2023… very reliable, sporty, mid-size (about the same as my old Subaru Forester), expect it to keep it’s value on resale but I hope to keep it about 10 years… Slightly more expensive than what I was hoping to spend, but I was turned off from the electronics/display in all of the other new car models because I couldn’t do the simple things (e.g., adjust the temp) without needing to navigate or press buttons on the display. I was recently in a colleague’s Tesla and she had to use the display to open the glove compartment. What a pain and distracting.

    25. I drive a Subaru Crosstrek, the first automatic transmission car I have owned in decades, and I LOVE it. It is just the right size for me and for some urban driving and some highway driving. It has all sorts of safety features, good gas mileage, rarely needs repairs and maintenance, and the variable cruise control ROCKS! The all-wheel drive works nicely on my sloped driveway, even when iced over. The only thing I don’t like is the color – white – which I didn’t have much choice about, given that I bought it in July 2020, during the height of the COVID-19 situation and corresponding supply-chain challenges. I highly recommend the Subaru Cross-trek.

  7. How often do you all replace your workout clothes/athleisure attire? I feel they pill and show their wear more quickly than other clothes, despite hang drying. I have several items that are serviceable but look pretty worn and I am tempted to just refresh my collection. Primarily items from Athleta, old navy, and vuori if that matters.

    1. I literally keep them until there’s a tear. I will say though, that my athleisure clothes aren’t the same as my actual workout clothes so idc if my workout clothes look worn because I’m only wearing them when I’m working out.

    2. I have 2 pairs of Gap Fit leggings I’ve worn since I was pregnant with my now-6 year old. The inner thighs on one pair busted so I threw them out, but that’s my policy – 4-5 pairs of leggings, wear them til they tear.

      They can’t be donated and they aren’t a fabric that can be composted or recycled, so it feels wasteful to be precious about things I am just going to sweat in.

    3. I replace when they look worn to me. Athleta sales ar REI and Old navy.
      Tops hold up great for me….for years of heavy use. Athleta elation tights have been the very best in terms of wear~maybe because I only buy prints. I think solids would show wear easier. Prints work for me as I prefer
      not to see the triangle of heat!
      For black tights for leisure I have had success with Loft outlet.

    4. When they look shabby. I like to be able to wear my workout stuff casually around on the weekend too, not just for exercising.

      1. same

        workout clothes…. who cares as long as the are functional. wear until they fall apart.

        athleisure, which I may wear when I am out in public, wear until they seem worn, then save for home/garden wear.

    6. Literally until they are unusable for workout + backpacking clothes

      I do roll athleisure clothes from “wear to work at the coffee shop” (I care how it looks) use to workout/cleaning/yard work use (Don’t care how it looks) as it gets visibly worn, stained, etc

    7. I keep them until they fall apart. I’m still wearing a fleece I got in eighth grade and I’m 35. None of you would find me fashionable though.

      1. I mean, it is a fleece. How is a fleece that different or fashionable? I expect that LL Bean will have its current items on offer for several decades, so how can it matter that much?

        1. Let’s just say the cuts in 2003 were quite a bit…boxier than they are today. And the fleece is just one aspect of my unfashionable attire! I embrace it though – I’m all about functionality in the outdoors and I’ve always seen plenty of women dressed similarly.

          1. Man, I still kick myself for getting rid of an Old Navy fleece from 2000. True, I’d probably wear it only for gardening (with dirt) but still.

    8. Not often at all. Usually only after they fall apart, or I can no longer remove body odors.

      2. Lol I for some reason thought this was under the car question and was concerned about body odor in your car

    9. I find they generally go out of style before they wear out — I baby them in the laundry so they last and last.

      Pro tip: I get my Athleta on eBay and Poshmark and save a ton of money that way.

    10. When it dies. Some of LLL still has pockets designed to fit the original Motorola razor. Sport br@s through tend to only make it year or two. Everything goes in the dryer.

    11. I replace mine when they are shabby or stretched out or tragically out of style, but my LLL and Athleta gear tends to stay looking nice for several years. Vuori does seem to pill a bit sooner but should still last quite a while. I wash synthetic performance fabrics in a separate load to avoid getting fuzz from cotton items on them, with a specialty detergent, and dry them on low with wool dryer balls to catch dog fur and minimize static.

    12. I hear ya on Vuori pilling. Though I wonder if it’s fabric specific—my olive green joggers (which are softer) pilled very quickly in the inner thigh and backside but my maroon ones (smoother, slightly thicker fabric) have stayed pill-free

    13. My workout clothes basically never wear out. I often want to refresh due to boredom but feel like I can’t because my stuff is all in good shape. I don’t do the LLL and Vuori-type athleisure wear, though. I do have a few pairs of joggers I wear for doing chores around the house but they, too, have held up well.

    14. Until they develop holes or I gain weight in the wrong places and the fit becomes a size or two too small.

    1. I found the response on that thread wild – I take Advil pretty frequently for muscle aches and pains from leading a very active lifestyle. This is especially true at bedtime, where a sore body significantly affects my sleep. Who knew some people can go months between taking pain relievers…

      2. I think the responses were more about why she was taking it. It’s not such a big deal to take it for muscle aches with an obvious cause, but you’re definitely not supposed to take it regularly for headaches because it just makes them worse.

        1. I have migraines and multiple doctors have told me to take Tylenol, which helps me. I’ve never had rebound headaches. I don’t think it’s necessarily concerning to take it frequently for headaches.

          1. Hmm, I have chronic m*graine and have seen a lot of neurologists over the years. I don’t even take NSAIDs because they don’t help, but every time I see a new doctor they interrogate me about how often I’m using them and tell me repeatedly to be careful not to overdo it.

          3. That’s correct, I was just sloppy while typing fast on my phone. However, Tylenol and triptans can also cause rebound headaches.

        2. Right. I am surprised she has not heard that from a doctor or someone she’s talked to about her headaches. You cannot take pain medication every day to treat headaches. If they’re actually migraines, she needs to see a neurologist; there are excellent preventative treatments now. If they’re more tension/muscular, she can see a PT and likely get some fast relief. A TENS device can help a lot with those, also.

          Unfortunately, if she’s been taking Advil daily for some time, the withdrawal from it can be rough – people have described having debilitating headaches for a week or more as they withdraw. If she hasn’t seen a doctor about her headaches until now, I would recommend she do so at this point, and be honest about how frequently she’s taking Advil, and how much. The doctor can likely help her taper/withdraw so she doesn’t end up in bed for two weeks with a headache so bad she can’t function.

          1. Op again – I’ve been pulling back since 9/28, when I was asking my son’s doctor to fill out paperwork so he could get Advil at school. She was surprised I’d been giving it to him for stomach aches and told me to keep much better track of when I was giving it to him and why.

            I’ve honestly never been asked by doctors how much I’m taking it; it seemed better than other things (like my mom took pseudoephedrine daily for 15 years until it became a pain to get ahold of.)

            I was a heavy drinker for years (Advil for hangovers!) but mostly stopped about 2 months ago, so between cutting back on Advil and drink my liver is probably like, WTH is going on.

          2. Whoa, I’m not sure why you’d ever take Advil for stomachaches. I realize it’s pain, but it’s not the same kind of pain like a headache or muscle ache. Maybe he need something specific for a stomachache, like Pepto or an antacid? Or look into whether he might be experiencing a food intolerance that’s causing the stomach pains. And Advil/ibuprofen in particular is known to cause stomach ulcers, so taking it for stomach pain could be making it worse. I hope your doctor told you all of that!

            If you’ve been taking it for headaches, I would recommend the book Heal Your Headache to understand more about what causes headaches/migraines, including the rebound effect. The author recommends a rather intense elimination diet that you may not wish to attempt, but the overall premise was quite an eye opener for me in thinking about headache triggers.

            I’m not really surprised a doctor has never asked you how much you’re taking as I’ve never been asked that either, but you should be asked (and mention it yourself if not asked) about whether you regularly experience headaches or other pain and what you do about it.

          3. I’m saying this with kindness, truly, but i think you should reeducate on what advil is good for. Talk to pedi and your own PCP and reset usage habits.

          4. What, why would you take advil for stomachaches?! Let alone give a child advil for that reason. I think you need to seriously do some research into otc medicines. You are not using them correctly.

      3. Taking it regularly for long periods of time can cause things like stomach ulcers. It’s not the greatest thing in the world to take lots of NSAIDs all the time.

      4. I think it may be age related. At 60 I need them a lot more for joint and muscle pain than I did at 35.

        1. +1
          At 58 I’m not taking lectures from 20-30 year olds as to whether I need pain relief or not!

          1. Nobody’s lecturing anyone. If you want to take unfettered amounts of NSAIDs or other OTC painkillers, and also want to deal with the concomitant effects of ulcers/GI issues, rebound pain, and possibly liver/kidney damage, if you take too much (or take a moderate amount and also drink alcohol several times a week) – go for it. It’s your life. I would prefer not to end up on dialysis or needing a liver transplant, or with GI issues so severe I have to go on multiple prescription medications to deal with them. There are non-medication pain relief techniques that work well, if you want to try those. PT, gentle cardio, yoga, TENS devices, and massage can all help with pain. More time-consuming than popping a pill, I realize that. I hope you realize that popping pills for pain is how a lot of people get addicted or end up with health problems that are worse than aches and pains. And people who are younger than 58 need to know that before they make choices that negatively impact their health for a lot longer than you will likely continue to be alive.

        2. I have nothing against pain relief; I take LDN for joint and muscle pain for now. It’s counterintuitive, but OTCs are not always safer for long term use than prescription meds. And they shouldn’t always be used without consulting a doctor. The instructions for use will often explicitly say this (not to use for more than x number of days without medical supervision).

      5. I have had to stop taking naproxen because it created some GI issues. I was taking it for shoulder and foot pain. I m in physical therapy for the shoulder and doing other exercises for the foot.

        I realized that the amount that I was taking wasn’t even really helping. At a point, you can hit the law of diminished returns,

        1. Same for my husband. He took Ibuprofen for shoulder pain for so long he developed gastritis. He has a reconstructed shoulder due to an accident and it’s basically always going to hurt. Yes, he’s seen all the specialists.

          He’s Tylenol only now, which isn’t nearly as effective for that specific pain, sadly.

          1. Voltaren is now OTC and might help with the shoulder pain. But this is just an observation, not medical advice!

      6. I went 25 years never leaving home without my bottle of Aleve. After my hysterectomy, it was 6 months before I realized I hadn’t even thought about where that bottle was, let alone needed one.

      7. Yeah, I’m 39 and I take an OTC pain reliever almost every night before bed, though I mix it up among aleve/Tylenol/Advil/midol depending on which one I see first. Hip pain wakes me up otherwise. I think it’s the mattress, it doesn’t usually happen when I’m in a hotel. When my BF moved in, he brought his very large very hard bed with him. I was used to sleeping on a pillow top mattress. I couldn’t convince him to get a different mattress but I did convince him to use a topper. Something about the hard mattress + soft foam topper is throwing me out of whack. I think we need a sleep number.

        1. Yes. Tell your BF you need a new mattress. I don’t care how comfortable it is for him if it is giving you ‘wake up in the night’ level pain every single night.

    2. OP from that thread – thank you guys, it was really eyeopening that I may be taking Advil too much. I’m going to try to keep a journal of when I take it and why for the next few months and see where that gets me.

      2. Keep track of when you develop canker sores, too — I found that when I took ibuprofen for too many days in a row, I would develop canker sores in my mouth, which makes sense — it’s all part of the GI tract, sensitive mucus membranes and all that.

  9. The Cadillac XT5 is a surprisingly practical vehicle. If you buy used, avoid 2017 as that was the first run of the model and they had some glitches to work out. After that, it is a very reliable car.

  10. Did any of SBF’s companies ever get audited by a real accounting firm that did auditing? Each day of the trial I am more and more surprised that no one ever pulled back the curtain even a little bit.

      1. Like my kids’ Etsy store (or “store” since every aspect can have a third party fulfiller) is more of a real business than this but no one is giving them millions in several rounds of financings. And if people with the millions to do several rounds of financings with are missing all this, who are the people asleep at the switch just letting this happen? I am just baffled. Maybe I am naive? It is just so amazingly bad.

        1. After reading Bad Blood I have become resolute in my belief that many (most?) investors don’t do due diligence and are easily swayed by someone who talks a big game, especially for something complicated, because they don’t want to appear that they don’t understand it.

          1. True — no one wants to look past the pretty slide deck. Tyler Shultz seemed to be the only one who realized that it wasn’t adding up. But at least Theranos was trying to be a real company and do something (so needed to raise $ for scientist salaries –> at least there is a story there). Alameda and FTX just seemed to move things from one spreadsheet to another, and by “moving things,” that seems to be embezzling while also keeping everyone and everything on the payroll (so not embezzling, but OMG are you kidding me?). Unreal.

      2. Yes!! I listened to “Going Infinite” over the weekend about him and continued to be horrified time and time again. I’d like to sign up to receive literal billions of dollars to play with and no one to oversee what I’m doing.

    2. I assume it wasn’t a publicly-traded company. Privately-owned companies can get away with alls sorts of irregularities that come when there isn’t any formal supervision or accountability. Not that this is legal, of course, just that there’s no visibility into shenanigans.

  11. I’m hoping to reach those who work in the bank regulatory industry. I have two interviews coming up – one with the Federal Reserve and one with the OCC. They are both for bank examiner roles in my respective field. I’ve been in banking for a decade and I’m very excited to potentially transition into a bank examiner role. Both roles pay about the same and are in my city. Has anyone worked at either agency? What can you tell me about the culture, benefits, etc that may help me choose the right one if I’m given an offer by both?

    1. I’m at one of the agencies and happy to connect if you post a burner email.

    2. Can you share which city ? I am at a FR bank but each one is different and has a different culture to an extent. One thing is that if this is for a bank (not the FR board in DC), we are not federal government employees. Wanted to note that in case you have loans. Overall, I like it a lot

    3. I don’t have any great insight but I have worked with FRB in Richmond. Everyone there seemed to like their job and was pleasant and intelligent.

      1. This is a pretty good description. I haven’t worked with Richmond’s supervision folk but overall at my bank I find people intelligent, reasonable, and mission driven. Mostly I find the work load to pay ratio reasonable, although overall the work has increased a lot

    4. One good aspect is the very good non-GS-based salary (i.e., much higher salary scale than most federal government employees) at the OCC. If you are considering OCC (federal government employee) v. Federal Reserve Bank (non-federal government employee), consider the federal government health insurance benefits that are very good while an employee and continue to be available into retirement — with the fedearl government paying a portion of the premiums, even into retirement. The TSP (401-K equivalent) is very good, too, with low costs and a wide range of investment options. Term life insurance is well worth it, until you get up there in age, when the premiums rise sharply. Also — most federal applicants don’t do this, but try to negotiate getting 8 hours per pay period of annual leave immediately upon onboarding, rather than only getting 4 hours for the first 15 years. This is something that the hiring authority has flexibility to request under OPM guidance (which is not well know), in order to recruit you, although they may feel they don’t need to get this for you if they can select another applicant for this vacancy. Good luck!

  12. My boss apologized to me for the first time ever! (I would never ever ask but I genuinely wonder if he’s stated therapy, it’s so out of character and a lot of personal growth)

  13. Ugh, I just want to vent a bit to the hive.
    My company announced a number of organizational changes that are likely to impact my job security.
    Instead of working on my projects, I’ve been spending so much time this week on redoing my resume, internal people profile, with very little guidance as to who will be our new leader, what they are looking for, what the org setup will be etc.
    We’ve had this two years ago, and I’m tired. I’m early 40s and a capable and valued professional – why do I have to prove myself over and over and over?
    I also have a chronic disease to manage (plus vulnerable kid having the same), and that plus the general state of the world is not giving me much hope right now.

    I’m already doing breathing exercises, going for runs to cope with anxiety, but I’m just so over all of this corporate bullshit.

    1. I’m sorry. In the same stage of life, also going through a leadership change. I feel more insecure than ever, even though I know I have chops and know what I’m doing. And you reach a point in your career where making a big change or switching jobs is just a whole lot harder. I hate it.

    2. I had back-to-back massive reorgs that cost me (and most of my division) their jobs. It’s awful. I love my work and I’m good at it; I am so completely done with corporate bs.

    3. I’m sorry to hear all of this. It’s really a lot.
      Life is just too hard, aometimes…

      Keep breathing.
      Keep running.
      You can do it.

      Thanks for taking such good care of your vulnerable kid. Hope you get some hugs tonight.

    4. It’s a bad day when you realize paying your dues and demonstrating your worth and value at work is NEVER going to end. Over and over and over again, at regular intervals. It’s so tiresome, but it’s a fact of life. I remind myself on occasion when confronting crappy work situations that this is why they pay me to do this work.

  14. Years ago, I had a pair of cognac leather boots that I loved and were perfect for fall outfits. I wore them until they fell apart. Now that bootcuts and flares are back in, I’d love to find an updated pair. I don’t want anything rugged. I’m looking for streamlined and simple. Has anyone seen anything like this lately?

    2. Not sure if you have a shaft or heel height in mind. I recently bought the cole haan hampshire boots in a cognac finish and love them.

  15. For some reason, I’ve been in mod for 30 minutes on FRB vs OCC. Has anyone worked at either and can tell me how you like it? Hopefully longer post will post soon.

  16. PSA for the new Merit eyeshadows: those babies LAST! When I remove my eye makeup after 12 or more hour day, I am still removing the shadow – the staying power is unbelievable. I love the shades – line with the navy and then use the social overall. They come in individual little pots and the top is a little fussy to get on and off. Once on, though, it stays on, and protects the contents. The little two ended brush is nice too.
    This has just pointed out to me how bad my mascara is, b/c when all that eye makeup is coming off, there is NOTHING of my mascara left. Recs please for long-wearing mascara?

    1. I love the Malani Anti Gravity mascara. I’ve been crying a lot and it’s even cry-proof. It really lasts.

  17. This AM husband asked me what I thought was a silly question but maybe it’s not. His nail beds are deep set and rounded on top. He asked if getting regular mani/pedis would improve the shape of his nails. At first I was like “no of course not: that’s genetic” but then I’m not actually sure. Do you think getting a manicure for years from a competent professional would change the shape of your nails? It wouldn’t make them less deep set, obviously, but maybe they’d flatten a bit?

    1. I don’t think you can really change that with a manicure. I’m not sure what the issue is with deep set nailbeds through.

    2. Nail clubbing can be an indicator of some serious health issues. If this is a newer development for him, or if it’s gotten more pronounced, then he should see a doctor.

      2. It’s not a new occurrence; we were just talking about the shape of his nails. I just looked up nail clubbing and that’s not what they’re doing. But I appreciate your concern!

    3. I don’t think you can change the shape of your nails, but regular manicures with cuticle shaping will make any shape nail look neater.

    6. From my limited knowledge of nails, I think the only things that can help are 1) resolving any fungus that might be drying out the nail and causing it to curve more than natural (they likely would be yellow and in really bad shape…this is probably not the case if you’re talking about his fingernails), 2) buffing down overly thick nails that may be causing them to grow in a strange shape (probably not going to make a big difference but it could help a little), or 3) frequently moisturizing the nails and nail beds (again, might not make much of a difference but he probably should do it anyway to help prevent splits and hangnails). But generally you are right that this is genetic and he probably has had this kind of nail shape his whole life.

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