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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
The most worn item in my closet is probably a black wrap dress that I bought in 2015. It’s gone to the office, dinner, brunch, bridal showers, parks, and funerals, and I’m hoping it holds out for at least another eight years.
This wrap dress from Halogen looks like it would be similarly versatile. Grab at least one — you’ll be shocked at how often you reach for it.
The dress is $109 at Nordstrom and comes in sizes XXS–XXL.
In need of a plus-size option? Try this Leota faux-wrap dress — it's $128 at Nordstrom and available in 1X–3X.
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
Shelle
There’s a lovely top at Ann Taylor that’s now 30% off. I’m still having a hard time paying $50 for a sleeveless 100% polyester top. Is this just what things cost now? Back in my day gas was a dollar a gallon…
Anon
Often, yes. Everything is more. When gas was that cheap, I was in law school for $15,000 a year. Blouses haven’t gone up like tuition.
Anonymous
You can find plenty of sleeveless 100% polyester tops for less than $50! Just not at Ann Taylor. You just have to decide how much you want to shop at different stores, how much you want to hunt through different quality levels of fabric, etc.
anon
Yep, I’ve always found Ann Taylor to be more pricey than other stores. Macys might have options at a lower price point. I’ve also found tops and places like TJ Maxx and Marshalls, but you have to do more digging to find what you need. If you want to go even lower, Kohls has tops like this too.
Anon
Yeah, this seems very normal to me for a mall brand. Banana Republic in particular has gone insane – like $200 for a poly blouse. I refuse to buy polyester anymore.
Anon
I hate to admit it, but there is good polyester out there (Boden and J Crew Factory in particular) and I am here for it. I like a visually nice blouse that I can throw in the washer and dryer, for me and for my teen girls (sorry, no Love Shack Fancy, which maybe is one word?, for them). I have the short-sleeve version of the Amour Vert blouse featured yesterday, and I do love it, but that is not in my budget for every blouse in my closet (and definitely not my children’s).
But crap polyester exists also (hello, Shein) and it is just awful.
Anne-on
Brooks Brothers also has some really nice poly tops that are thick, washable, and look like silk or satin. My rule with poly though is that I know the brand well and I can return it easily I only buy it in person (usually at Talbots, Ann Taylor, or Jcrew). Otherwise is is hard to tell online if it’s decent quality or if you’re getting see through garbage.
anon
+1
I agree.
Polyester can wear well and be low maintenance. My work horse blouses are a thick poly, great drape and require no special care/ironing.
As with everything, you have look ….. and sometimes you have to pay.
Cat
I don’t get the h-te for poly. Is it as high-quality as silk? No. But there’s nice poly and cheap poly, and the nice poly drapes nicely and can be machine-washed, hung dry, and looks great even without light touch-ups with an iron.
That said I won’t even look at a garment at a mall store price point before it’s at least 50% off full price, because the “original price” is so inflated to begin with to allow for a sale cycle.
Anne-on
+1. I’ve shopped the big mall stores often enough that they’ve fully trained me to not buy anything unless I either need it urgently, or it’s on at least 40% off, ideally 50%.
anon
I have some BR poly that looks and feels like silk. $50 for an Ann Taylor top doesn’t seem out of line. Especially if it’s wash and wear and doesn’t require complicating my laundry.
OTOH, the poly blouses you find at Kohl’s and Loft are usually not great quality.
Anon
I have found that polyester usually does not breathe well. It looks nice for a season or two, and then can look kind of sad (and I keep my clothes for years).
Anon
My problem with polyester is the smell. It ratchets the BO way up.
Anon
I’ve heard that and it hasn’t been true for me. I have also heard that pit stains from deodorant are less likely to come out, but that to me has been an issue with white shirts regardless of fiber content (maybe more so with man-made fibers, but while I love a white shirt, I regard them as having a very limited life vs any dark pattern).
anon
This isn’t a problem for me either. So there must be variability in fabrics, our individual chemistry, the types of deodorants we use, and the way we launder items etc… Not so surprising.
Cat
+2, I have not had a problem with this. Ironically silk is worse than poly for that IMHO!
Anon
+1
Runcible Spoon
Chicos has some very nice and very practical poly blouses. Machine washable is key for me these days.
Anonymous
For me it’s two-fold. First, I keep my clothes for years and poly just doesn’t stand the test of time regardless of the quality, and second, poly is plastic and I want to limit my plastic consumption as much as I can.
Anonymous
the trick is to shop in-store… if it’s still online there’s still enough stock to bother with it online. you’ll only find deep clearance in the stores. that said, wait for at least 50% off with ann taylor.
Shelle
Thanks for the tip!
Notch Collar Jackets
Notch collar jackets – outdated or not? What is the current version of the solid color sheath dress+interesting jacket “uniform” for executives?
Anon
In spring, it seems to be a collar-less jacket with no lapels of some nubby or tweed-like fabric.
Anne-on
+1 to Chanel style (or actual chanel) jackets or something with a bit of texture. The JCrew ‘lady’ jackets would be a good option.
anon
I still wear this uniform. Although not with a notched collar jacket, just an interesting blazer. I am senior leadership.
Cuyana Backpack
Continuing backpack talk. I’ve been lusting after Cuyana’s 16 in Leather Backpack (though I don’t love the price). I commute on foot so a backpack is important, but I want to look out together especially when I head out after work. I’ve looked into the used market, but changes to the straps make me think the newer version is a better bet.
Does anyone have it? Talk me into/out of it.
anon
I do not have this backpack, but I used to have a leather backpack and it was a disaster. It’s just too heavy. I think you’re better off with something like a tumi.
Anonymous
+1 for a Tumi backback. Mine is amazing and a total workhorse.
Anon
I know nothing about this backpack but 100% agree. Leather backpacks (or large leather purses) are not practical for commuting. Go light!
Anon
I’m a physician and our health care system is just so darn broken (as I’m sure all of you as patients are well aware). I just don’t know what to do anymore. I work for a large health care system that lost money last year so the immediate future is looking painful with staffing cuts etc. Long term is looking even worse with the continued/worsening mental health shortages, primary care shortages etc etc.
Sorry about the rant. I’m not even sure what I’m looking for. Has anyone else found ways to focus on trying to do good work in otherwise messy systems?
Monday
WHY HELLO. This was my life until I went out on my own a few months ago. I had been working in a large health system that has a near-monopoly in my area, then left for a smaller agency where the dysfunction wasn’t much better. I feel this so hard that I need to actively restrain myself from writing a tragic memoir in response to your post. There are almost no words, right?
I don’t know how to advise anyone on this situation. I do recommend the non-profit Moral Injury of Health Care, their podcast Moral Matters, and their new book If I Betray These Words. I think a movement is building, so the best I can do is try to be part of it.
Thank you for your work.
anon
Not the OP – but thanks for sharing this.
I have decided to leave Medicine to try to get involved in improving the system. I’m not sure yet where to start.
Monday
Run for office? I know that probably isn’t where to “start” per se, but I do mean it.
Healthcare in Texas
Draft a syllabus and propose a course to your local university, to be taught to both business students and medical students, about this?
anon
I’m not in health care, but I work in another very broken system (higher ed). I can only control what’s in front of me and work within the very imperfect system that I’ve inherited. It can be hard, though, and it’s not like we’re saving lives over here. When I get into these funks, I have to remind myself of the good things I am doing, and the ways in which I’m actively making things better for someone.
anon
I’m in medicine, and I feel your pain. It is hard to compare with most industries because the inequity is so vast, and stakes are so high. And I fear it will get a lot worse before it gets better.
Anon
As a patient, I confess I switched to a direct care PCP. I know this is problematic in multiple ways as a solution, but with the way insurance works these days, it doesn’t actually cost me more (I know this wouldn’t be true for everyone depending on how they’re insured). And my previous PCP had told me straight up that she did not have time to coordinate care with my various specialists and would not be able to keep seeing me. It’s consistent that the doctor said his motivation was to have more time. Even if he’s seeing fewer patients and only the subset of patients who can save money this way, I figure it’s more patients being seen than if he’d quit, so in that sense, it’s still helping.
Anon
Our longtime family general practitioner is about to go to this model and we will follow him. I don’t mind paying out of pocket to keep seeing him – he’s been my doctor for 20+ years and has seen my husband for almost that long, and now our son is a patient in his practice. He keeps up on research but has kind of the “old time family doctor” ethos and wants to be able to take time to talk to people about lifestyle/diet and exercise, etc. and not just hand out pills. He really can’t do that under the current way that insurance works. While I don’t love paying a flat monthly fee to his practice on top of our regular insurance, the fee isn’t exorbitant and it’s worth it to us.
Anon
The last two obgyns that I had quit to work in academics. I loved my doctors and was so sad when they left. As a patient, I hope more doctors can find a way to continue to provide us with great care and take the time to discuss our medical issues/concerns. We really need great doctors which I know is becoming more and more difficult.
Anonymous
Align yourself with caregivers in the healthcare space! Family caregivers in the US provided an estimated $600 BILLION in unpaid services in 2021 to members of our family, at tremendous personal cost (financial, emotional, and time-wise) and with very few resources. Medicare and Medicaid spending were $900 and 734 billion in the same period respectively. It’s staggering.
Anon
No advice except that I keep coming back to WHY I work at a Medical Center to begin with, and keep as much focus on my patients and how I can serve them as possible. But it’s … not good right now. I heard a quote the other day that I think sums up US healthcare: The American Healthcare System is like an alcoholic who hasn’t yet hit rock bottom.
Anon
I’m loosely adjacent (policy side), and I am so over the American medical system and our for-profit model. Should doctors be able to make a nice living? Absolutely. Do we need the 9 million administrators and middlemen in between jacking up costs and creating complexity? Absolutely not. Private equity in medicine is morally abhorrent. NPR Marketplace had an interview where the author of a new book said that nursing homes owned by private equity firms have a 10% higher death rate! Our system has some great upsides (all the development, all the tools), but the corruption of money is very real. I am ALL FOR nationalized medicine. All for it.
Grace
Doing a spontaneous Hudson Valley long-weekend by myself (staying in New Paltz area). Any favorites / recs? Love nature/hikes, exploring small towns, history, good food and drinks. Have a car. Thinking of going up to Hudson, NY, Hyde Park, etc., too.
Anon8
Lil Deb’s Oasis in Hudson is great!!
Anon
If you like vintage stuff, New Paltz has a little mall area with a bunch of vintage shops that are reasonably priced. There’s also two great used bookstores nearby, and a tea shop by the gas station that sells loose leaf tea and will make you custom blends — both to take home and to drink right there! I’ve only been there when staying at Mohonk so I don’t have recommendations for other activities.
anon a mouse
Rhinebeck is super cute, love dinner at Terrapin. Red Hook is also cute.
Anonymous
I dont have any suggestions but i want to say good for you!!! I haven’t done a solo trip since my 20’s and this past weekend I was thinking that I wanted to go somewhere this summer (PNW) and had no one to go with. thanks for the inspiration :)
Anonymous
You can purchase a hiking day pass for the grounds at Mohonk. Lemon Squeeze is very strenuous but ranks in the top five hikes I’ve ever done! If you want something less challenging, there are plenty of other options.
Not exactly New Paltz, but Beacon is also a great town to visit for food, shopping and Dia: Beacon is a great little museum!
helloanon
Favorite comfy pants for an overnight plane ride? Jogger or yoga style preferred over leggings. My current pairs are pretty worn out and not fit for public viewing.
anon
My two favorite altheisure pants are my Vuori joggers and my Quince ultra soft performance leggings.
Anne-on
The lulu scuba high rise joggers are SO soft and the curved side panel is so much more flattering on me than the other ones I’ve tried on. Fwiw I prefer leggings on planes – I find the additional compression on my legs helps me feel much better vs. joggers or sweats.
Anonymous
Vuori joggers or Lululemon joggers. The vuori may be more comfy, but I like the Lulu ones in black as they look a bit more sleek.
Anon
My favourite joggers are by Zella from Nordstrom.
Anon
The Zella live-in jogger? I love these, as does my daughter.
Anon
American Giant sweats
Anonymous
Icebreaker crush jogger
Runcible Spoon
Chicos often has some faux track suit outfits, sometimes in a cashmere blend, that are great for intercontinental 12+ hour flights or red eyes. Look for the drapey-hoody/pull-on pants combos. They have the added bonus of looking pulled together while transiting the airport, not like you’re wearing obvious sweats or pajamas.
Anonymous
Recently bought the kinetic pans from Ministry of Supply and they are amazingly comfortable and look great — they are my new go to for all travel.
Anonymous
Senita joggers!
London (formerly NY) CPA
I always wear my bootcut yoga pants from Talbots. Check out their T by Talbots line. Very comfortable and have held up well for several years of frequent wear around the house and on flights. The ones I have are similar to these: https://www.talbots.com/out-and-about-stretch-bootcut-pants/P224034728.html?cgid=t-by-talbots-pants-and-shorts&dwvar_P224034728_color=INDIGO%20BLUE&dwvar_P224034728_sizeType=MS#b21e68b83253efa2ba0430c547=&start=1
Anon
Does anyone use ChatGPT in their personal lives? I just read a Washington Post article about people using in for meal planning and I’m curious what other use cases it might have.
anon
I’ll admit that I’m way behind on this particular technology because I don’t need/want another thing to manage.
Anon
I would sign up for something that makes bland, neutral, and non-committal replies for me. Like replaying, “Thank you for sharing your perspectives with the group,” when what I think and dare not reply is “OMFG you are beyond crazy with that talk.” Can ChatGPT or AI help me manage a certain very prickly person I cannot avoid interacting with who is always offering her thoughts on how others could do things differently? Person is neither a boss nor my MIL, but I could see it being useful in those situations as well.
Anon
Yes. Honestly even YouBot could probably handle this.
anonshmanon
I have used ChatGPT for that. When I overthink a response or my tone, I literally go to the bot and ask ‘What’s a way to say X, in a more friendly/patient/assertive/whatever tone?’ and it will come back with a couple of scripts, so you can pick one that fits your style.
Anon
This is golden. Even if I don’t actually use this, I will probably amuse myself with this later.
Anon
I guess ChatGPT needs managing if someone subscribes to premium features and creates specialized sub-bots?
But in general the user experience is similar to “searching for something on Google,” and I wouldn’t describe it as requiring management.
anon
Yeah, that’s where I’m at. I don’t even care enough to look it up.
Monday
I already want less AI in my life, not more, and I feel like soon we’re going to have to deal with it constantly without a choice. I am not voluntarily starting early.
Cerulean
Me too, and I’m really surprised by how many are jumping in on its use. I refuse to feed the beast.
MBAMags
I have not, but my SIL has used it recently for:
curated list of local restaurants for the homeowner’s newsletter
invitation wording for an end of year pool party
menu suggestions for a ladies’ tea party
Her advice is that it’s a starting point for research, not an end-all, be-all.
Anokha
I used it to write a complaint letter after a flight was cancelled.
Anon
I usually use Bing. But between Bing and ChatGPT, I’ve used these for meal planning and recipes (“what can I make with the following ingredients and dietary restrictions”), reviewing writing (especially for clarity and organization; they can “be a writing coach” if instructed to), trying out questions I have for a healthcare provider (just to get a sense of what kind of answers I may get depending on exactly what I ask so that I don’t waste precious time with ill-worded questions out of my own ignorance), and book and movie recommendations.
Anon
I’ve also used it for generating comparison or “pros and cons” charts.
I’ve used it to summarize hearsay (“what do reviewers of x product complain about most?”). I guess in a sense it is always summarizing or actually reproducing hearsay? But it does save time.
Anon
For example, a query I use for Bing in particular is “can you summarize Reddit’s opinion on [x]?”
For an example [x], I tried the Tatami Room platform bed we’ve discussed here before, since I’d already read the relevant threads and could assess whether the summary was accurate.
JTM
I did a beta test of Google Bard (similar to ChatGPT) and I tried it for suggesting recipes based on what I had in the fridge, and it was very helpful!
Anonymous
No but I started a new consulting job this week and my colleagues were using it for work (they’re solidly 15 years younger than me). I was flummoxed. Good for them though I guess.
Anon
I work in tech and it’s huge here.
anon
How are you using it?
Anonymous
A family member of mine claims to be using it to write code.
Anonymous
I wish I could use ChatGPT for work. It would save me so much time to be able to get it to spit out a first draft of a memo, limiting my input to just editing.
Anon
I like to draft first and then have ChatGPT edit, but yes it is very, very fast!
Anonymous
What was flummoxing? No one should ever enter proprietary client info into the platform, but I would think it would be useful for compiling or distilling background info about an industry, new product, whatever. If you’re consulting, you’re either getting up to speed quickly on the client or needing to educate your client on something. Wouldn’t chat gpt be perfect for those tasks? If you’re interested in learning more, I’d look through your linkedin feed. My feed is filled with people who are writing articles about how they use the technology in their particular niche (e.g., a sales leader just posted a series of slides about using chat gpt to build a target-specific business case for purchasing his product – the prompts he included were really thoughtful).
Curious
I use it weekly at least, and I have friends using it daily (big name foundation’s program director and comms at non-profit). It helps me brainstorm when I can’t get a colleague in the room. It helps them write faster.
KS IT Chick
My husband uses it to write drink recipes and role playing game adventures.
Anonymous
I’m in academia and a colleague used it to clean up the language of an abstract he had written. The improvement was noticeable. For example, the first sentence was (similar to) “Excluding A, B is the most important widget” and Chat GPT changed it to “B is the most important widget, excluding A”.
Possible Causation?
I learned this in elementary school grammar classes. If we spent the resources to properly educate people, maybe we wouldn’t need AI for these kinds of tasks and we could deploy it where it makes more sense (i.e., analyzing large data sets, etc.).
anon
ok… but sometimes we aren’t perfect, and we forget things?
I have 5 degrees but could have easily written such a sentence – particularly if rushed. I guess I wasn’t properly educated…. ;)
Anon
Why dd you learn this in grammar class when both sentences are grammatically fine?
Possible Causation?
Because when you have a choice between more than one grammatically correct option, then you can decide to use the one that is more persuasive and/or reads more smoothly and/or better fits with the document as a whole.
My bottom line is that we under-invest in public K-12 education in the US, and that has consequences for everyone who lives here (even if you send your kids to private school).
anonshmanon
Just because you COULD do it without a machine, doesn’t automatically mean it’s better to. We could all be writing everything in cursive, and beat eggs by hand, etc. I think this is a common misunderstanding (and probably intentionally curated by some people) that computers are somehow smarter than humans, but they really can just carry out what we teach them, really fast. And that frees us up to do more complex stuff, or interesting stuff.
Anon
I have no desire to use it. I can’t see what part of my life it could possibly improve.
anon
I feel like everything people are listing are things that I just search on Google to do.
Anon
It is all stuff you can get from google. It just synthesizes (i.e., plagiarizes) blog posts and other publicly available content. As a blogger, I really hate that it’s scraping my content and the content of other bloggers without us getting the ad revenue from page views.
Anon
Without addressing the issue of ad revenue, if really that’s all you’re getting from it, you may need to try some more prompts.
For example, “What might [long dead writer or philosopher] argue about [modern debate]?” I can get a draft from a large language model in response to questions like these. I can also ask clarifying questions or challenge claims in the response. Meanwhile Google would just discover that no one has ever written on this topic before, and show me irrelevant results about either the writer or the topic.
Anon
I mean, a lot of what Bing does is just summarize search results. So yes, it’s basically like Google but often more efficient. You can also clarify what you’re looking for and get better results this way if the initial answer isn’t quite relevant.
Possible Causation?
Any connection between people willing to use AI for things they can easily do better and the fact that so few US students (our future voters and elected officials, G-d help us) know history and civics, as reported today?
Anon
This thing has been out for “months” now. How could it possibly have caused this already? I’m guessing US students don’t know history or civics for the same reasons this was true ten years ago (schools aren’t really teaching these things; many schools aren’t great environments for learning in general, etc.).
Anonymous
I feel like this comment was generated by someone prompting chat gpt to write in the voice of a disgruntled boomer.
Anon
I used it for summarizing vacation itineraries. “What should we do in 3 days at Yellowstone National Park with toddlers”. It was very helpful and really nicely summarized what I had read across many blogs while doing research.
Anonymous
What — if anything — should not be worn by older women? There was an interesting reddit thread where a lady listed stuff not to wear after 35, including sweatpants, ripped jeans, and more, and I just thought no no no. I feel like older women look so much younger than older women did in the past, if that makes sense, à la Jennifer Lopez at 50 being compared to Rue McClellan or whatever at 50 (from the Golden Girls).
Cat
My own rule of thumb is to tread with caution if it’s a trend I already participated in. Otherwise, anything’s fair game.
Anon
Pretty much this, which is why I am ignoring the fanny pack, whoops, belt bag trend.
I wonder how old that redditor is. Maybe when you’re 20, 35 seems old, but it’s about 1/4th the way through your adult life. (Not entire life, adult life.)
Anne-on
+a million to 40 seeming ancient when you are a teen or in your 20s. Also I’ve had 2 different women (college student and nurse doing my intake) be shocked and question me when I gave my age (40s? NO, you don’t look that old!). For some reason we still expect women in their 40s and older to ‘look old’ but literally all of my colleagues and women I know in their 40s and 50s look pretty much like they did a decade plus ago.
Anon
I have a huge problem with these “rules.” Fashion should be fun and expressive. Wear what you want and whatever brings you joy. I’m 40 and midsize and don’t feel like anything is off limits. There are clothes I don’t prefer for whatever reason, but if I want to wear a crop top with an open flannel over it (something I definitely wore in my teens), then I’ll do it. One of my few regrets is that I spent so much time when I was younger being worried about arbitrary rules that really shouldn’t have governed my life.
I also don’t subscribe to the idea that the purpose of clothing is to make you look as tall and thin as possible, though, so maybe I’m an outlier.
anon
This is a fantastic outlook. I’m totally there for it for everyone else and getting there for myself.
anon
+100
Anon
I have fantastic legs, and I avoid miniskirts. They seem young. I also avoid midriff-baring tops (lived through Christina Aguilera and Britney already) and teetering platform heels that look like cheap prom heels. I also avoid hoodies (they never look pulled together on zoom). Otherwise, I’m a pretty classic dresser, and so I don’t get involved in trends. My litmus test for buying things is: will I feel outdated if I wear this next season or next year? If the answer is yes, I don’t buy it. An example was last year’s lug sole loafers. I liked them, but they weren’t classic enough to pass my test.
Anon
You sound boring.
Sunshine
Well while one person thinks you sound boring, I think you sound smart. I understand people who love trendy clothes and buy and dress accordingly. But for those people for whom fashion is not a big deal, I like your approach.
Anonymous
This.
I feel bad for the people who think classic equals boring.
Anon
+1
Anonymous
Those list are silly opinion pieces usually written by women who are years younger than their target audience.
While I personally loosely follow the never wear a trend twice rule, I believe everything is fair game for women of any age.
anonshmanon
That woman says 35 year old is ‘older’? Yeah, no, instant eye roll.
Trying to Age Gracefully
I’ll play.
I know there are people who say older women can wear whatever they want, but I am in my mid-50s and there are definitely things I avoid because they read “too young” and/or “too desperate to look young.”
So I avoid anything super trendy. And if I find a particular trend particularly appealing, I make sure that is the only trendy item I am wearing. It can be a fine line but as an example I switched to loafers when those became more fashionable but do not wear lug-soled loafers. I stopped wearing skinny jeans but have not adopted any of the “mom jean” looks. I avoid anything that shows off my saggier bits (upper arms, chest). I do not wear crop tops. Basically if it would look adorable on my 20 something daughter I feel like it is probably too young for me.
All of that said, I am not Jennifer Lopez in either body or lifestyle. I am a middle-aged suburban professional with an adult daughter and a desk job. I try not to judge other women for their choices even if they are different than mine – although I will confess to a bit of “that is just sad” when I see a women who looks like she is 21 based on her hair, makeup and clothing but who is clearly old enough to be the mother of a 21 year old (particularly if that is combined with excessive plastic surgery).
I will also say my response to all of this is really different now that I am in my 50s than it would have been 10 years ago.
Anonymous
The wonderful thing about being old is that we have the experience to know what we like and what works for us.
Cat
The difference between “looking current” and “looking like I want others to think I’m 20” is exactly the distinction I try to make, too. If you try too hard to look young, it backfires and ages you IMHO.
Anonymous
Mid-40s and with you about not looking like I wish I were younger. I think about half* of it comes down to dressing appropriately for the occasion. Even a 25 yo who hits the clubs wearing a mini skirt and bra would dress differently at a suburban BBQ with tons of kids. Clubbing clothes would show that she wants to be somewhere else, which is the same message sent when a 45 yo mother wears clubbing clothes at a BBQ (and it’s sadder because her life is 99% BBQ).
*The other half is so much harder to pin down I won’t attempt it. Look forward to reading other’s thoughts.
Senior Attorney
Heh. I have my Medicare birthday coming up this year and I wear sweatpants and ripped jeans with impunity. And yes, 35 is YOUNG.
Anon
Wear what you want. As I’ve gotten older I’ve lost my patience for anything uncomfortable, especially shoes, but it’s still important to me that everything I wear look clean, coordinated, and in good shape. So I’m somewhere in the middle of the spectrum between Current and Given Up.
Anon
I think the very concept of 35 being “old,” or strict rules around avoiding things at a certain age, is outdated. I’m right around that age and I wear whatever makes me look and feel good. Including ripped jeans and sweat pants.
Anon
“where a lady listed stuff not to wear after 35” How old is she, like, 21? One of my life rules is not to let children dictate the rules of my life.
Anon
What not to wear over 30?
The weight of other’s expectations.
anon
Anyone else having trouble with Ad pop-ups on this webs1te start playing music/ads out loud? It was well controlled for long time, but for the last week or so it has been getting worse for me.
I have to turn off 2 ads already after being on the webs1te for just a couple minutes. A Nordstrom Ad starting playing music and some sort of sports ?drink maybe….
So now I’m keeping my computer on silent…
Kat G
I’m looking into the ads since I’ve noticed that also more — nothing should be playing any sound, at least not automatically. If you see an ad that is playing sound please click the “report” button, that way Mediavine can weed them out. Thank you for reading!
anon
Will do. Thanks.
Anon
I got tired of doing this after reporting the same ad 3 times in about 10 min.
Cat
They’re particularly awful if browsing on your phone, because there’s like 3 that crowd the bottom of the screen and the X’s are so tiny that half the time I end up clicking on them while trying to get rid of them. Which is probably the intent, but really irritating.
Sasha
If you use chrome, you can right click the rette tab and there will be a selection for “mute site” and it will turn off sound in perpetuity
Cat
if you use chrome you can also install adblock – but that doesn’t help mobile!
Anon
Very late to the party here but important PSA: Adblock works on Safari!
anon
Thanks for this!
Anonymous
you are a lifesaver! I have run into several load ads recently here, too. will report going forward.
In-House Anon
Same, on this s1te and Mom’s s1te. I don’t even see the option to report the ad anymore, either.
Anon
I’m on my iPhone using safari and no ads. On my laptop I use an ad blocker and chrome.
anon
I use the browser Brave on my phone and it blocks the ads.
Anon
I use the browser Brave on my phone and it blocks the ads.
Anne-on
Help me shop please. I’ve got a casual wedding, two graduation parties, and a shower to attend this summer and I’d like to buy a dress that I can wear to at least 2-3 of those events. The wedding is a daytime restaurant reception so they’re all similar formality levels but I can see needing something lighter for the August event vs. the May one. Budget is up to $400 – which would you pick? Or is there something else you’d suggest?
https://www.katespade.com/products/bow-tiful-bow-strap-dress/KA403.html?frp=KA403%20BLK%20%202
https://www.katespade.com/products/twill-grace-dress/KB044.html?frp=KB044%20VE0%20%208
https://www.thereformation.com/products/tagliatelle-linen-dress/1310275WHT.html?dwvar_1310275WHT_color=RIV&dwvar_1310275WHT_size=004&quantity=1
anon
Out of those 3, I like the 3rd the best. Very pretty, I like the delicate touches around neckline. Perfect summer wedding / shower dress, and is fine for graduation parties.
The red one just seems a bit basic for a $400 dress, but it could be a staple and very reusable if that is a great color for your skin tone. The 1st dress would be my 2nd choice though. Seems very simple, reusable and doesn’t really stand out in any way so folks wont really remember you are wearing the same dress again, if that makes a difference. Since the last dress is the prettiest, in my opinion, people are more likely to remember it. But that wouldn’t stop me from re-wearing it.
Senior Attorney
That’s so funny, I think the first one (the big bow print) is quite memorable, and the last one is very pretty but not so stand-out-ish.
Anon
I like the first one the best for formal summer events. In fact, if I had $358 to spend on a pretty dress and somewhere to wear it, I would buy it!
Anon
I wore a beautiful red dress to my sister’s wedding, I was in my early 30s, and had never heard you don’t wear red to a wedding! But I heard it many times AT the wedding! So not the second one. I personally like the first one better.
Anonymous
Wait, you aren’t supposed to wear red at any weddings? I thought it was only at more traditional Chinese or Indian weddings as that’s the color the bride wears.
Anon
Idk several people at the wedding told me so! Which was fun. And I’ve read it various places since, but somehow it had always escaped my notice before the wedding.
anon
I also think that the first dress, for that price point, should have had the patterns aligned better at all the seams. The print is so large that it jumps out at me where all the large prints are cut off.
pugsnbourbon
Yeah, I love the silhouette of the dress but the print doesn’t do it for me. I really like the last dress in red – I wish there wasn’t weirdness about wearing red to weddings!
Shananananana
weird low stakes remote question – is it more distracting to have my background blurred and then see my giant dog as a blurred form come in and leap up on the couch next to me, or just leave it unblurred and see my giant dog? I hate virtual backgrounds and have a perfectly professional office otherwise. Said dog is clingy, so having access to my office is a non negotiable and he is overall very well behaved. Honestly my best office mate ever human or canine!
anon
For me – unblurred! Especially if he is well behaved and not barking.
Don’t worry about it at all. Sounds like a great office mate.
Anon
I guess it depends on office culture, but seeing pets as a normal part of work from home in my office. People love it
Anne-on
+1. My cats have flashed their tails/bottoms at multiple people in my company by jumping in my lap/on my desk and nobody comments on it beyond ‘aww, kitty!!’
Anon
Can confirm. I get very excited to see anyone’s pet.
Anon
I hate blurred backgrounds! For some reason, I find them incredibly distracting. I love seeing dogs, though I prefer not to hear them (I recognize you can’t always control this).
Anon
I have a blurred background and hadn’t heard that I shouldn’t. My back is to the window, which can be bright even with blinds shut. The blur seems to cut down on that.
Fortunately just about everyone I zoom/teams with uses the blurred background so if we’re off trend, at least we’re all in it together!
Anon
I don’t think blurred backgrounds are considered a faux pas for most people, I just have some vision issues that make me extra sensitive to any extra motion or flicker, so that’s all I focus on when I see someone using them. They’re also a bit of a headache trigger, so I’m personally not a fan. I understand why other people like them.
Anon
I have 3 dogs and people I work with (internal and clients) love to see them!
Walnut
Usually the pet is the most interesting part of the call.
Curious
+1
Anonymous
I want to see your dog. I love seeing the pets come and go.
anon
Like others, I find blurred backgrounds very distracting. I love pets so please let me see your dog!
Anon
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a blurred background (I like to use a soft blur, not a harsh one), but blur or no blur I would like to see the giant dog please and thank you :)
pugsnbourbon
+1 million. Show me the dog!
Anon
YMMV but people love seeing my dog, especially when his personality is on display (think getting up mid-meeting, walking to the door of my office, looks back directly at my webcam, WIDELY YAWNS, then turns and walks out the door). Classic. Additionally, early in WFH/covid lockdown, my dog did a surprise jump to get my attention and it really helped the meeting; a surprised laugh from all and broke some tension. I do typically keep myself on mute as much as possible though, because he does bark when there are noises outside.
Anon
I’m currently reading a novel where a teenager loses her virginity and it’s bringing up some stuff for me. I had lots of $ex education at my small liberal private school, but was surprised to learn with my college boyfriend that the first time gardening was super painful and unpleasant. It remained like that for maybe 6 years (the course of that relationship). It was a loss of innocence in a way because society tells us that $ex should be a certain way (maybe I read too many issues of cosmo) but it’s not really like that in reality, at least for a lot of women.
So my question is – shouldn’t girls be told as part of $ex Ed that the first time for girls is likely to be painful? That was not communicated to my kids as part of their health education. To the contrary, a 5th grade woman teacher told my girls’ class that “it feels good,” but I didn’t want to interject with a counterpoint.
Anon
Counterpoint to your counterpoint, sex should not have been painful for you for six years. I’m sorry you went through that. I don’t want to teach girls that that is normal and that they should accept that.
OP
It wasn’t as painful after maybe the first ten times, but it was never pleasurable and my partner didn’t do anything to try and change that, so I kind of accepted it as something we women kind of accommodate, if you will. But it was sure disappointing to me.
anon
Sorry you had to go through with that OP. Your partner is a jerk and it should not have been that way. A good partner will listen and change things to be more pleasurable for you.
Anon
I’m not sure what telling girls that first time sex will be painful would accomplish other than you accepting that what you were going through for six years was to be expected. Which it shouldn’t have been and I’m sorry you went through that.
That said, I think they did tell us that in my late 1970s liberal California sex Ed, which I am forever grateful for.
PLB
I agree that it shouldn’t have been painful for six years. But also…I expected the first time to hurt, from my informal sex education (I.e. friends/peers/television). I honestly thought everyone knew the first
time would likely be painful.
Anon
Same. And it wasn’t super painful to the point that it needs to be called out (at least for me).
Anon
Yes my friends talked about it all the time! I was afraid to go past third base with my then-boyfriend for this reason!
Anon
I did expect the first time to hurt, but like OP, I feel like it sounded much more benign in whatever information I was consuming (can’t really remember, probably teen novels?). My first boyfriend really was patient and kind, but it was utterly frustrating for me to have to abort many attempts because I found them too painful, until after 3 or so months it worked out. From then it was fun and not painful, but until then I really thought something was entirely wrong with my body.
Anon
Same. I don’t recall if this information came through pop culture/media consumption or sex ed or both, but it was definitely something my friends and I all knew.
anon
Yes, it should be taught that the first time can be painful and uncomfortable. However if it continues to be painful or uncomfortable, there could be another issue. I think it’s important to talk about things like pelvic floor therapy for when it continues to be painful.
Anon
Or maybe that “brace yourself” is not an adequate getting-ready routine for women. And maybe that should be taught to men: when you are ready, she is likely about 15 minutes away from ready.
Anon
This is such good advice. Mentally and physically.
Anon
I dislike this advice. My husband can be “ready” (by some definitions) in seconds. A lot of advice says that the average women is ready in 20 minutes. Trust me, men will hear what you’re saying and decide that they don’t need more than a few minutes if foreplay.
A woman is ready when she’s ready. Pressuring her will slow down the process. Being impatient will slow down that process. Putting a timer on her will slow down that process. Acting like because the “average” for women is 20 minutes will not help. She’s ready when she’s ready, not when you want her to be ready.
Anon
I think you can disagree and the overall point of “just because you’re ready, she may not be mentally / physically ready” is still valid. Yes, she’s ready when she’s ready. No, you cannot just snap your fingers or wait a minute or two (unless she confirms).
Anon
As my friend used to say to her now ex “having an erection is not foreplay”
Anon
I have general pelvic pain issues and definitely had a lot of issues having sex at first. But I would never have called it super painful and unpleasant because we used lube and slowed down or stopped if it got uncomfortable. If there was an issue with your sex ed, it wasn’t that they should have told you that it would be awful, but that you need to learn to communicate with your partner.
Anon
IMO, girls should be told that sex should never be painful – uncomfortable the first time, yes, but not painful. I also want to see significantly more education about the dangers of p*rn, more talk about real self-esteem, and removal of normalization of violence against women in the bedroom. I want girls to be told that they don’t “owe” boys sex, not for any reason (even if they’re already started, even if they’ve done it before, even if she said yes 10 minutes ago). I want them to know that it’s not normal for boys to choke them and slap them in the face and that there are many people out there who will try to convince them that their boundaries are invalid. I want them to know that they are the only ones who get to decide who they should be sexually attracted to. I want them to know that they are worth spending time with for their great personalities, not because of what their bodies offer. I want them to understand that the risks and benefits of sex are different for men and women, and that reality means that women have to take far more into consideration when choosing a partner – will she have access to abortion, for example. I want them to understand that there is nothing wrong with a lifetime of “vanilla” sex where both partners enjoy it and no one is injured.
OP
This is exactly what I mean – I felt pressured into having $ex and doing stuff I didn’t enjoy and I also felt pressure to stay with the person since my guilt from my religious background made me feel like I was “used goods” and no other guy would want to marry me. I know this must ring true for some other people on thus board also. I don’t know how I will help my girls and all girls of this generation to feel empowered to say no to stuff and to demand more from their partners.
Anon
So I think there’s more going on here than just not knowing the first time often hurts, based on this comment. I do think you were unusual if you didn’t know the first time is often crappy for women. I think that’s pretty widely known. You’re really talking about the intersection between sex education and relationship/consent education – the latter is poorly taught, if at all, in schools. It’s something you have to do at home.
Anon
“I don’t know how I will help my girls and all girls of this generation to feel empowered to say no to stuff and to demand more from their partners.”
You can’t help “all girls of this generation” but you can absolutely help your own girls understand that:
– Sex should never be painful (as an anecdote – my first time was uncomfortable but did not hurt because I had a partner who cared enough to make sure he at least was not hurting me – he knew my first time was not going to be great, but he did the best he could to take his time, check in with me about what I was feeling, etc. My second time was okay, my third time was WOW – I definitely got what the fuss was about. So it is possible for people to have a first experience that is not painful).
– You do not ever have to do anything you do not want to do sexually, ever. No is a complete sentence. If a partner doesn’t respect your “no,” that is sexual assault and you need to – at minimum – never ever engage with that person again; they do not respect you or your boundaries.
– It’s not up to the man to decide how fast things will move sexually or what gets tried or when sex is “done.” Sex is “done” when both people reach the level of satisfaction that they wish to achieve. If the man “finishes” early, he can still do things to help a woman “finish” and achieve satisfaction. IMO, only very selfish men do not agree to this perspective.
All it takes is talking with your girls openly about sex. If you’re struggling to do this, I suggest that you think about (here it comes) therapy, to help you get over your early programming about sex and sexual issues. It will benefit you and it will benefit your daughters/the girls in your life. It’s very, very common for people who grew up with negative ideas about sex to need to work through it with a therapist or trusted professional. There’s no shame in it.
Anon
And I want you to run sex ed nationwide!
Anon
It shouldn’t be painful though! This would be the wrong message. Scarleteen is a good resource if you haven’t seen it.
OP
The first time for you wasn’t painful at all? Would you say it was pleasurable? I’m just saying that it was totally not what I expected or hoped for… was my experience an anomaly?
anon
From my experience and that of friends of mine….. your experience was not uncommon.
When/where I grew up, there wasn’t easy access to internet porn, and the knowledge base and sensitivity of most young men was pretty poor.
Anon
I mean, I had a very caring partner and really good sex education (my mom was a former sex education teacher), but my first time was painful. I had an unruptured hymen and it was my boyfriend’s first time too, so any knowledge he had about how to make it pleasurable was academic. It should not continue to hurt, but there are a lot of women for whom the first time hurts and there’s not always someone to blame for that.
anon
I was responding to the OPs Question above – First time wasn’t painful? Was it pleasurable?
For most of my circle, the first time wasn’t great – it was painful and not very pleasurable. But many of us expected that it wouldn’t be great.
Sybil
My first time was very good, but (hilariously) lasted a little too long – almost an hour. I had no pain at all, but realize each experience is unique and know many people who had discomfort their first time.
I’m really sorry you had such a poor introduction. And such a bad boyfriend.
Anonymous
Mine wasn’t. It was awkward, and short, but not painful. It was with my bf of a while, we were both 17, and it was both of our first time.
Second time was great. ;)
Anonymous
Mine wasn’t. I waited until I was 21. No expectation of waiting until marriage I just wasn’t interested in taking things that far until then. Used lube and he went slow. I came twice (fingers then mouth) beforehand. If anything teen girls need to be taught that it might be uncomfortable the first time but it should never be painful and that orgasming a couple times first can help your body relax.
Anne-on
You’re definitely not an anomaly. I had a small section (all women) discuss their first experiences in college as part of our human sexuality course. I was shocked that out of the ~15 women there I was one of maybe 3 that had a loving, purely consensual, pleasurable first experience (the very first time was uncomfortable but the next few go rounds were great). It stinks that this is how most women experience things. It is the biggest reason I refused to engage with the Catholic church once I left for college (in addition to their horrific views on homosexuality).
The Unitarians have a great sex ed curriculum if you’re looking for a resource for your own kids btw.
Anon
I shared this in another comment – my first time was not pleasurable, but it didn’t hurt, because I was with a partner who had been with a virgin previously and knew that if he went too fast, and didn’t pay attention to my body and what it was doing, it was going to be a bad time for me, and he didn’t want that for me. That made all the difference in the world. Not every man is going to have that sensibility or awareness, so women need to be taught to advocate for themselves in terms of what they want and need sexually, and that it’s okay to say – no, stop, that doesn’t feel good, let’s try it a different way, etc.
A lot of my women friends and I talk about how one great thing about being older is that we’re no longer worried, ashamed or reticent about asking for what we want in the bedroom. We know what works for us and we’re going to talk about it with our partners. But the question is – why did we have to get older before we felt comfortable doing that?
Anon
I posted above about having trouble having sex at first- to the point where it took so many aborted attempts that I don’t even know when I’d say I technically lost my virginity. But every single one of those times was pleasurable for both of us, even if the penetration part was difficult. We just did other things as well, and it was fine. I guess I’m glad that I had a partner who cared about how I felt and that I felt comfortable being honest with.
Anonymous
I was old (22) at the time so maybe my hymen was already gone… i’d always found tampons really painful and pokey and was worried sex would be. but for me my first time sex was ok. not comfortable, certainly didn’t come (cum?) but enjoyed the closeness and the overall experience.
Anon
How is tearing a hymen not going to be painful? I bled a lot. I like sex, I’m over it, but yes the first time was so painful I couldn’t let my partner “finish.”
Anon for this
Not everyone has an intact hymen until they have s3x for the first time. I realize that’s painful for those who do, but I had a good experience personally. I was in college with a longtime partner who was already familiar with how to get me to org*sm.
anon
Yes, this.
I think some women are fortunate that their hymen may have been disrupted already, so that can help things. Also, clearly if you aren’t prepared physically, things may not be as relaxed/lubricated so that can add an additional level of pain/discomfort. Also, differentiating pain and discomfort…. is pretty arbitrary, isn’t it?
Anonymous
Your hymen can be torn or partially torn before you have sex. Things like horseback riding or using tampons can stretch or tear a hymen.
Hymens and virginity are not the same thing.
Cerulean
Not all women have intact hymens by the time they’re sexually active.
Anon
Absolutely, but the reverse is also true – not all women have non-intact hymens which may be conducive to a less painful first time.
I don’t know how exactly to square the circle of saying that experiencing some pain is normal, but also not setting up women to feel like they need to endure. But the way it’s currently communicated ‘mild brief discomfort’ means that if you are experiencing more pain for a longer time, you think there is something wrong with you. And speaking just for myself – I enthusiastically wanted to take that step, and had a great loving guy and everything, it was just that my body didn’t fit the norm of what I was told it should feel like.
Maybe more emphasis on how pain can be minimized and how to make it comfortable and enjoyable for all is the key – but I believe that is what the Reps call grooming.
Anon
I didn’t have a hym3n. My first time wasn’t painful at all – in fact I enjoyed it.
Anon
I’m just pushing against the post that said it shouldn’t be painful. Everyone is different here, clearly on a physiological basis, and saying shouldn’t is just another “you’re doing it wrong.”
Anon
Sex was horrible for me the first time – I was in pain for hours. It has gotten less painful but still sucks, and I have long since tired of telling my husband that women aren’t men. If women climax, that’s news to me. I dream of getting divorced on a regular basis.
Bluntly, barring a medical condition, it’s almost always physically amazing for men with very little effort. Women experience a much wider range, and for those of us who need more time and attention… I wish men would understand that it’s how we are made and trying to force our bodies to work differently is a fancy way of being selfish.
Anonymous
This is wild to me. Why would you marry someone who doesn’t make you come every time? Like maybe not through intercourse but at least a couple times before intercourse.
Anon
Because we are both religious. At this point, I truly do not care what the church says about divorce when a husband DGAF about his wife’s pleasure.
But thanks for your super compassionate comment.
Anonymous
You can be religious and have great sex before marriage. Conservative churches don’t own religions they just corrupt the values of Jesus.
anon
Many women have never had great experiences, so you accept the devil you know? People get married young? You hope things will improve with time? You are more patient when you are younger when you are less knowledgeable? Lots of reasons…
It is probably less common to have a good experience every time!
Anon
It sounds like you haven’t heard of the orgasm gap.
Anon
Exactly. It’s “normal” in the sense of being “the norm,” but it’s also really awful and it doesn’t have to be this way.
Anonymous
I’ve heard of it but I have no idea why you all accept it. I only slept with 2 people before DH and I can’t imagine being with someone more than once if they were not being attentive to my needs. Heck, you can have an orgasm while fully clothed. Not like you have to have intercourse before marriage to know if he is any good at paying attention to your needs.
Anon
“I only slept with 2 people before DH and I can’t imagine being with someone more than once if they were not being attentive to my needs.”
Totally agree. I have only been with my DH and two other men; I had opportunities to sleep with additional men prior to getting married, but in some cases didn’t do it because they didn’t seem like nice people, or like they would care about my needs at all. My first partner was a really excellent partner (in the bedroom; in other ways he was a nightmare), we always had an amazingly, mind-blowingly good time together, and I guess I just…wasn’t willing to settle for less, after that? I also knew that I did not have the patience to “teach” a man to be a good lover if he didn’t have intrinsic motivation to do that on his own.
Anonymous
WOW – i’ve never come with another person, married 16 years, had multiple boyfriends before that. is this an age gap thing?
Anonymous
What? Do you not come by yourself? Show them how to do what you do by yourself.
I generally have a 2:1 ratio with DH. I’ve never faked but there were a few times I didn’t come. Sometimes it’s just once and mid 40s so it’s rarely more than 3 times anymore.
Anon
Your life could be so much better with another partner. Sex is such an important part of life – don’t waste your one chance!
Anon
I’m so sorry. Have you tried pelvic floor physical therapy? I have pelvic floor dysfunction too and it really does help.
Anon
I did, but i missed the part where it convinces my husband to change.
Anon
You have a husband problem, not a sex problem.
Anon
“If women climax, that’s news to me. I dream of getting divorced on a regular basis.” Okay, but these are things you can change in your own life.
Anon
Uh…I think you need to see a sex therapist. Real suggestion. I have more than one orgasm almost every time I have sex. I have been having sex since I was 15; I am 45 now and while my body is changing some in perimenopause, sex is still very enjoyable for me and for my husband – largely because we pay attention to each other’s needs and make sure each person is getting what they need from the encounter (which isn’t always about swinging from the chandelier! Or whatever). We aren’t as active as we used to be but we still average once every week or two weeks. I just want to make the point that for many women, including myself, sex is an enjoyable, desirable, natural part of our lives.
If you’ve seriously never had an orgasm with a partner or alone, and you want that to change, a sex therapist can help! Don’t live your life wishing you could get divorced and dreading sex!
Healthcare in Texas
Dear Anon at 11:46: This sounds like an awful way to experience a marriage, and I am so sorry. Please know that it can be different for you in a different marriage with a different person (I’m not even talking about the gardening part, just the partnership aspect) and that there are people and resources who can help you get there and who care about your happiness.
Anon
Being religious is one thing. Your husband not caring about your pleasure is another. I wouldn’t have sex with mine if he didn’t deeply care about my pleasure also.
Anon
the way this country is going, we’ll be lucky if sex ed is even taught in schools
pugsnbourbon
Right? Pleasure was literally never mentioned in the sex ed I had in middle and high school (rural Ohio). It was all about how you’d get pregnant and your life would be ruined, or you’d get an STI and your life would be ruined. Condoms don’t really work, and birth control pills don’t really work either. Here are pictures of what STIs do to your insides! etc.
Anon
I agree. So sad.
Anon
In Texas, the curriculum is titled “Worth the Wait”. My 5th grader hasn’t taken it yet, but my flags are up that this is conservative, religious-based thinking in disguise as public education, and will just reinforce the norms of shame about $3x, bodies, normal functions, etc.
Healthcare in Texas
Are you allowed to remove your kid from those classes – maybe let her spend that class period in the library doing homework or something? That’s so disturbing.
Anonymous
We should not be normalizing painful intercourse for girls or women. They should be supported to assert themselves and ask a partner to stop if they are having pain.
anon
Yes, I think everyone should agree with that. But as more people have pretty poor sex ed (even now?) it would be better if teachings/warnings were better for women (and for men, so they understand). So I think we are agreeing. Yes, women and men should be taught what is normal/typical, what women need, what the risks are, how to advocate for yourself etc…
And again… differentiating pain and discomfort is difficult. It doesn’t really matter what you call it.
Anon
There’s enough normalizing women’s pain in general (think of how long it takes to be diagnosed with a medical cause if that’s a factor, such as endometriosis!).
So Anon
I doubt you are alone but I want to chime in that your experience (which sounds horrible) is not universal. My first time was less uncomfortable than my teen romance reading had led me to expect and certainly not painful. And I generally never found it painful thereafter.
I suppose that is one advantage of being a late bloomer so to speak; I was 21 and he was 28 and knew what he was doing!
Pep
I agree that sex ed should speak to preparing girls for their first time, perhaps something like “your first time may be uncomfortable or painful, and there may be bleeding involved.”
My first time was neither uncomfortable or painful, but I was shocked at how much I bled. I thought that virgins bleeding was an old wives tale from medieval times.
Seventh Sister
My first time was a bit painful, then it felt really amazing, then we stopped before either of us came. He had a lot more experience with straight s*x and realized we were both getting kind of overwhelmed. Plus my hymen broke, which I don’t think he was expecting (I was in my early 20s and there was blood). Apart from that one time, it didn’t hurt for me. It was not necessarily a bad experience, though maybe it was an unusual one? I’d been with girls before but I’d never “gone all the way” with a guy.
I feel like teen girls (and others) should be told that if it’s painful, you should say stop! It’s supposed to be about pleasure.
Anon
Agree.
Anonymous
Dr. Gunter should be required reading for even mature women. Please see this thread: https://twitter.com/DrJenGunter/status/1192143613947457537?s=20
Anon
I realised in my late 20s that I was allergic to latex, so intercourse (and the next day) was always painful because of condoms. It was revelatory. Yes, I eventually switched to the sheepskin kind. But I endured years of discomfort, even with being “ready” for intercourse.
Cotton Short Sleeve Shirts
Where do you buy cotton, short sleeve shirts for summer? I liked the breton stripe ones at Boden a couple years back, but don’t love their bland colorways this year. Price range flexible (but $50 or less preferred), size 12 pear.
Anon
Recently bought several from Everlane and LOVE them. I’m thinking about trying the pretty blue color from Cuyana. I have almost every color of 3/4 length tops from Vineyard Vines and frequently grab those throughout the year. Those are a modal/cotton blend and are very soft.
Anon
Vince. I can get them in the $30-40 range on sale – try Gilt or Saks Off Fifth.
Anon
Does anyone else feel like they’re getting nickel and dimed, gaslit, and lied to by businesses a LOT more than previously? I’m sure it’s related to the economy and all, but I am so exhausted from it.
anon
I’m not sure what you are referring to, but I am extremely resentful of the huge price increases that have been shown to NOT be due just to inflation/war effects/supply chain, but by entire industries coordinating price increases because there isn’t enough competition and we are willing to pay it. Because… you know… people need to buy food, and gas, and housing. Sky high profits in many industries. Prices should be coming down. But they aren’t.
Once the Wall Street Journal starts admitting what companies are doing, it must be pretty flagrant.
Lydia
“More Perfect Union”has really good coverage of this! I follow them on Insta but they are in multiple places (I think there’s a podcast, too).
Anon
Link?
Anon
yep.
Anonymous
More than previously? No. More openly than previously? Yes.
Businesess are doing everything they have always done, they are just more open about it now.
Anon
I’m sick of additional “service fees” at restaurants. The money doesn’t go directly to the waiters. If they want to charge more then raise the menu prices. The restaurants are relying on you not to notice or be too embarrassed to ask them to remove it from your bill.
anon
I really hate these fees. Near me, a lot of restaurants call the fee something related to compensating their workers (but it’s not a fee that is supposed to replace the gratuity). I’m all for compensating workers, and would gladly pay more and do frequent places that treat their workers better. I strongly object to additional small print fees, rather than having the costs of doing business baked into the price.
I’ve gotten less ragey about the fees now that it’s common practice, but I go out far less because I hate feeling nickled and dimed when I’m already paying a lot for a meal.
anon a mouse
Yes! it’s everywhere. Our homeowners insurance went up 35% this year (and it was already expensive). Our water bill has doubled in two years for the same usage (as confirmed by the meter statements, I started looking for a leak when it got so high). Internet service has gone up 20% in a year. Don’t get me started on restaurants, I know that there are higher labor and ingredient costs but price hikes of 50% is just more profit padding. All of this I could combat by shopping around but dang I’m tired just thinking about all that.
Anon
But you can’t shop around, that’s the problem. At least where I live, there’s only one internet company. There’s one water company. Rents and home prices have gone up crazily, but there’s still almost nothing available, so you have no choice but to pay or move out of town. The lack of competition is a big part of the problem.
Anon
Property insurance prices are skyrocketing every because of climate change.
Anonymous
YES. i get annoyed every time i have to buy diet coke since that’s the huge markup I see everywhere (used to be able to get 4 12-packs for $12 — certainly 3 for $10 frequently — and now it’s like $8 per 12-pack even at costco. (used to be $9 for 36, now it’s $16 for 36 i think.)
Anon
It really bothers me that many megacorporations have raised prices on products or services, are making record profits, and then are trying to blame the higher prices solely on higher worker pay (which was long overdue) and inflation (which is a thing, but doesn’t really explain the record profits). Then some of these megacorporations are also laying people off, even when their profits aren’t down, blaming “the economy” when really they’re just trying to push their stock price higher so the people who own the most stock can get richer. We absolutely are being gaslit. This “unfettered capitalism” thing ain’t working; we need some fetters.
No Face
What is a fun savory food to share at a trivia night? I can cook it or pick it up.
Sasha
You can never go wrong with pigs in a blanket IMO–extra points if you use puff pastry instead of crescent roll dough and serve with fancy mustard (whole grain, nice dijon, etc.)
Anonymous
I disagree.
Anon
Not the person who wrote that but I have never served pigs in a blanket that weren’t gobbled up within seconds. I assume there will be plenty of other choices for people who don’t like them.
My pigs are usually turkey lil’ smokies, and the blankets are crescent roll dough.
Anon
I’ll take yours! Now I’m really craving pigs in a blanket . . .
Senior Attorney
Bacon-wrapped stuffed dates
Shrimp cocktail — it doesn’t get any easier and people LOVE it
Store-bought frozen mini meatballs in the crockpot with 10 oz grape jelly and 12 oz Heinz chili sauce — sounds weird but I never have any left over
Shelle
Bag of nacho chips placed on a sheet pan with whatever toppings (shredded cheese, chopped tomatoes, scallions, black olives, jalepenos, avocados) baked about 5 minutes until the cheese is melted.
Anon
Gougeres, aka French cheese puffs.
Anon
ooh I love those. I don’t want to make them, but I’m very happy when someone else does.
Anon
Recently a friend hosted a small dinner and for pre-dinner chatting, she set out some popcorn with a tasty topping, a little bowl of those tiny dill pickles, a little bowl of some type of uniquely flavored nut mix that you can find in the bulk produce section, and a tasty cheese. It was perfect!