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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
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- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Online profile
I had a second date with someone and he mentioned he is divorced and has a kid, which he did not bring up before we met up or on the first date. There wasn’t any mention of being a dad or divorced from his profile, and I wrongly assumed the boy in a picture was nephew or friend’s child – honestly was hard to tell. His Facebook still says he’s married to his ex-wife, and it’s not clear they’re divorced. The way he mentioned it was also oblique: it wasn’t like hey just to let you know, I’m divorced and have a son and FYI etc. Am I off-base in thinking he should have said it in his profile, before we met up, or at least on the first date? I understand completely not revealing a bunch of personal stuff early on and I’m not against someone being divorced or having children from a previous marriage. Life happens. But something about the way he handled it seems to me not straightforward and transparent enough on what’s kind of an important detail.
Anonymous
As a woman, I’ve always heard not to mention kids in online dating profiles, because it can attract predators who get close to you to gain access to your kid.
anon
I think this advice is ridiculous, tbh. The risk of that happening (especially to a man) is minute and if anyone really wants to prey on a single parent, they can do that without first learning you have kids on a dating app. In exchange, you’re wasting the time of everyone for whom kids are a deal breaker.
Anonymous
I disagree — if I were single, I’d never mention that I have kids initially as it can attract the wrong guy. I used to work as a court clerk and saw it too many dang times, often poorer women who were economically and emotionally tied to a guy who was really interested in their young daughters (infrequently: sons, too).
anon
So a creep can assume you’re in a demographic to have kids, go out with you, learn you have kids within 1-2 dates and continue to be a creep. Conversely, you can use your senses and judgment to assess whether a guy you just met seems too interested in you because you have kids. The women you’ve observed are in that position more so because their economic and social vulnerability (and, potentially, poor judgment) makes them targets, not because they disclosed it on an app or in an initial conversation.
Anonymous
I disagree, too. I think people are really naive if they think predators are always easy to spot or are only a problem for “those dumb poor people.”
anonymous
What a blatant misrepresentation of what people here are saying.
Anon
If his fb says he’s still married, he’s still married.
Senior Attorney
No kidding.
Jeffiner
What?! My FB status is an afterthought. I was in a relationship for nearly 10 years before I updated my FB status (because I was sick and really bored in bed and playing on FB one day). I would never consider anyone’s FB status to take precedence over what they tell me in real life.
Anon
Changing from single to in a relationship is one thing. Not removing the “married” status is VERY different.
Another anon
This.
Ellen
Yes, he, like most men, is trying to pull the wool over your eyes at the same time as he yanks your panties off. He is not to be trusted and you caught him, hopefully before you voluntarily pulled your own panties off for him. I was dumb enough to fall for this trick more then once, right out of law school, when I met lawyers who worked for big firms that told me how cute I was and that I could not be a lawyer since I was so cute. I did not have a job, so I was a sucker for those big time 6th year associates making good money complementing me, so I wound up sleeping with 2 of them hoping that one of them would marry me. It turned out that neither wanted to marry me even tho they were more then willing to have s-x with me forever (or so they said), but I was NOT interested in just having s-x with them, let alone forever, without marrage. So my advise to the hive is to be very carful of men like that. FOOEY on them! I am now smart, and never have s-x with men that I have not known for months.
BabyAssociate
I absolutely agree. I think the kid, at the very least, should be mentioned in the profile or before you meet.
anonymous
Agreed. I do not want kids, someone having kids is a deal breaker for me. I think it’s disrespectful not to mention something so important and black and white. I don’t want to waste time and emotional energy on someone I’ll have to stop dating. I find that men who don’t disclose this want you to “give them a chance” — ie get invested even when you know it won’t work. Not fair.
Anonymous
I think it matters where you are. In smaller cities, a single guy in his mid30s/40s if usually divorced and a parent. In NYC/DC/SF, you often see straight never-married non-parent guys in their 30s/40s, so I think that the default assumption varies by geography somewhat.
anonymous
I’m less concerned about the divorce piece and more concerned about the kids piece. Just state it upfront. There’s no excuse not to. Why should anyone have to rely on “default assumptions” on something so important that they could easily learn if the person in control of the information wasn’t attempting to hide it?
BabyAssociate
Anon 10:06, 100% agreed, that’s my thinking exactly.
Anonymous
You ‘passed’ his first date screening (and he yours), so now you’re getting to the important stuff. I don’t think it’s awkward that he’s been private about it or didn’t talk about it in the first date, it’s important stuff that not everyone needs to know. Also, sound’s like you creeped his facebook? I would guess that he hasn’t updated it yet or doesn’t use it frequently–I know I personally haven’t been on mine in ages. Divorces can be long processes and he’s likely new to the New Dating. Keep asking questions, see how he reacts and how open he is. Go slowly and at the end of the day, if you’re getting a strange vibe, trust your gut.
Anon
“Creeped” his facebook? I’m not dating, but who wouldn’t do that? It’s not creeping to look at a public profile.
Worry About Yourself
The one time I didn’t look a guy up on social media before a first date, I found out after the date that he was married. For less than a year! I’d tried doing it “the old fashioned way,” not looking someone up and actually getting to know them on the date, and I’m never doing that again.
I mean, don’t Google them and go through pages and pages of results trying to find out as much as possible, don’t crawl their social media and look at years-old content (especially since it’s so easy to accidentally “like” an old photo), but there’s nothing wrong with looking at someone’s profile and recent content.
Abby
This sounds awful! Was his profile picture a photo from the wedding??
Worry About Yourself
No, but before I found his social media, I found him on LinkedIn and Googled his name, the wedding registry popped up. I also looked at the wife’s social media and there were pictures of them together. Not only did I feel hurt that this married guy was toying with me, but I felt awful knowing I was involved in this guy’s infidelity.
The original Scarlett
Yeah, you’re meeting strangers on the internet, I’m team deep research can find about someone early, before you fall for them
anon
+1
DCR
I don’t even get this. Everyone I know has their Facebook profile set to private, so all you would see is the cover picture. I and many of my friends do online dating, and none of us are online stalking the guy before the first date. You meet in a public place, and make sure he doesn’t follow you home.
Is it Friday yet?
Seriously? I 100% do a light search as soon as I have enough information, just to make sure the dude is who he says he is and to see if anything immediately questionable pops up. I think that’s just due diligence (along with public places, etc.), not being creepy or stalking.
anon
I don’t bother until after the first date, and sometimes the second. I am too busy with other stuff to dig around about dates before I’ve met them. I meet in a public place and don’t get drunk. I do google them before I start to “fall” for them, if only out of curiosity. I’ve found some scary stuff (e.g., divorce records regarding sexually abusive behavior, mugshots for sexual assault charges) but often I needed the context that meeting them provides to find stuff.
Anonymous
Divorce is a public record. Check out the hall of records in your county and make sure he really is divorced.
anon
Yes, but it’s not always easy to get to, especially without a bar number. In my state it depends heavily on the county how difficult it is to access divorce recrods.
Anonymous
He told you on the second date, and I think that is soon enough. But if he seems shady to you just don’t date him!
NYCer
+1. If you decide to see him again, I would definitely confirm whether he is divorced.
anon
+2. Second date would be fine with me. But if you’re getting bad vibes, don’t go forward.
anon
Agree. Gut trumps the “paper trail.” Second date would probably be okay with me…but it depends. Sounds like your depends landed on the “nope” side. No shame there!
anonymous
I say trust your gut. That’s an important thing to know about someone and if he handled this in a shady manner it doesn’t bode well for the future.
Anon
Wait what!? The problem is clearly that you think (not unreasonably) that he’s MARRIED, not that he didn’t mention the divorce and kid on the first date. I feel like you breezed psst that extremely important detail.
Anonymous
Yup.
Anon
Right! There are arguments either way about the kids and divorce situation, but the potential that he’s married is the most alarming thing to me. I’ve got a lot of divorced friends and none of them have accidentally left “married” as a status on their FB. I just don’t think that’s something you forget. There may be an explanation for it, but that’s the #1 thing I’d address out of this whole situation.
Monday
Yeah, if anything, people who aren’t legally divorced yet will change their status in advance to reflect that they’ve moved out and are no longer a couple. I’ve never seen it go the other way, and if someone is still keeping their divorce private online then I don’t see how that’s compatible with being on a dating app. I don’t think it’s likely that his status is just outdated unless he hasn’t used Facebook in years.
Anonymous
I’ve seen it not done twice recently. One, because it was just creating so much drama in her life (college sweethearts, kids, never expected him to divorce her after she followed him in his career; she announced that she was divorced, but no hint of anything prior to); another because he wanted to get back together with his wife (who had a BF, not sure what she did with her FB status) and he was staying in the house with the kids hoping she’d return and there is no legal separation in their state.
Announcing trouble seems to invite your immature friends to comment away (vs reaching out), which is bad, bad, bad.
Anon at 11:03
I’m the same Anon as above, and I just hid my relationship status before it was final, which is what everyone else I know also did. I went on a date with one guy who “hadn’t gotten around” to changing his relationship status from married on FB, and, yeah, it wasn’t true. I’ve seen some people below say they wouldn’t bother or their spouse wouldn’t bother, but I don’t know anyone who is actually dating online (or who has in the recent past) who didn’t change their relationship status on social media. I also don’t know anyone who is actually dating online who’s had a good experience with someone who “forgot” or “didn’t get around to” changing their status on social media.
Anonymous
Yes, this is weird. Wonder why his FB still says he’s married? Could he be still be married and seeing you on the side? Either way, I wouldn’t see him again. He has a young child and if he is divorced, he needs to focus on the child. Take it from me, dating a guy with young kids is hard. You’ll always be second to the child, as it should be. And dealing with an ex-wife is not fun. And if you married him and had a kid, then the first kid gets the shaft and he gets to “visit his dad” while “hid dad” is raising another kid with you. It really sucks for the kid.
Monday
This comment seems to be saying that dating anyone with kids from a prior relationship is a no-go. Being “second to the child” really applies for as long as they’re minors, and sometimes even beyond depending on their needs. And whether she’s an ex-wife or simply the mother of the person’s child, “dealing with” her is likely required. This is a fine stance to take, but it definitely rules out any man who has a child/ren of any age from any situation.
Z
I feel like that’s not true, divorced people with kids date and get married and have functional families all the time.
Anon
Ok so as as divorced mom, I should just be celibate until my kid is 18?! The fact that my first marriage didn’t work out means I have to miss out on companionship for 15 years ?! No thank you.
anon
No one is saying that. But some people (myself included) don’t like/want kids and it’s fine for us to pass on folks who have them.
cbackson
Having a half-sibling is not “getting the shaft,” jeez.
Anonymous
I think with half-sibs, you stand a better chance with step-sibs, especially if you are the dad’s kid and stepmom’s kids live with them. Half-sibs are at least step-mom’s kids’ siblings and those likely to be closest to them after the parents are gone. Still potentially dicey either way.
Anon
I used to think that, before getting shafted.
DCR
Yeah, I totally got the shaft for my dad’s step kids. But I blame my dad for that and probably ould have got the shaft either way
Angela
Do you have a half sibling?
Anon
I have a half sibling and I did not get “shafted”.
Anon
I think this is a poster who has made several other comments indicating they think divorced parents need to be celibate until their kids leave home, or they are scarring their kids for life. I’m more conservative than most about dating and single parents, but this person’s views are crazy even to me.
anon
As the first kid in this scenario, we do indeed get the shaft. I was a second class citizen in my mother’s house with my stepfather and their daughter, I was an easy scapegoat and everyone’s verbal punching bag and how they dealt with the stressors of having a blended family, and their second child was allowed to do a lot of things that I never was (e.g., extracurricular activities, see friends, ride bikes to the library and get to read whatever I wanted). I went to live with my dad full time when I turned 16 and they were all shocked. I thought they were so terrible at the time, but honestly in retrospect they were pretty normal people reacting to the stresses of a not great situation. Admittedly none of them are particularly great or strong people, but they’re actually pretty average, and the impact on me was pretty terrible.
I don’t think the answer needed to be my mom never remarrying, but I was never a priority and that really showed. I don’t think it’s that unusual
Angela
Yep, it sucks (or can suck). Doesn’t mean that the parent should never remarry or have other kids or pursue happiness but… it does suck. Sometimes life just sucks. No need to deny or sugarcoat it.
AnonNYC
Not sure anyone will see this, but two of my closest friends and I are all half-sibs with significant age gaps who have healthy relationships with our families. It does happen, and can be great! In my family, it’s meant built-in trustworthy babysitting (who better than a cool teenage aunt to a kid who otherwise hates babysitters!) and I had a blast hanging out with my little sister and doing fun kid stuff when she was little and now she’s a great person, and I’ve been able to be a resource for her as she’s grown on stuff she didn’t want to talk to her parents about. It helps that all the original adults were great people, but it’s not impossible! My friends likewise adores their little half-brothers and vice-versa, even though they’re 8 and 14 years apart.
Anon
Second children always have less parental oversight than first children, though? I feel like that’s a very common complaint from my friends, who are mostly first children. And all of their younger siblings are full bio-siblings, not half-siblings or step-siblings.
Equestrian Attorney
My perspective as a person going through a not-yet-completed divorce (my jurisdiction requires 12 months separation and then takes forever to process). I didn’t put it on my online profile because that seemed too private to share with the world. I did mention it on any first date where I saw potential for a second date, because it seemed weird not to and if it makes people uncomfortable I understand. Most guys were very gracious about it but appreciated that I told them quickly and was open to answering questions about it. It honestly was hard to bring up so I understand the reluctance, but I still did it because I value honesty in others and myself. I wouldn’t resent him not mentioning it online, but I think you are well within your right to bring it up, say you were a bit surprised and ask a bit more about it. He doesn’t owe you all the gory details but if he won’t talk about it at all, it’s not a great sign. He did put a picture of his kid on his profile though, which is a pretty strong disclosure- Guys rarely post pictures with kids who aren’t their own.
Anonymous
Ya know you do you but I hate this. I don’t date married men and I think representing yourself as single when you’re married is lying. Say you are separated which is true.
Anonymous
And honestly, I think of separated as equivalent to married (in my state, there is no “separated” — people are either married or single). I want to see you after you are divorced.
Equestrian Attorney
I mean, I get why you feel that way and I was reluctant to date because of it. But it’s pretty common where I am because divorce takes such a long time – I met several men in the same situation. And I was always upfront about it before any second date or kiss, so at worst someone had a drink with me before deciding it was a problem for them (which honestly never happened, not in that way). I have been separated for more than a year, my divorce has been filed but not yet pronounced, and I’m now dating someone who is fully aware and supportive. To each their own.
Anonymous
In my state, if you date a married or “separated” guy, you can be named as a respondent in the divorce action and actually sued for damages. It makes the news almost annually and since there is no legal document creating a status of “separated” and people can just say there are, it makes me give the whole status a side-eye.
Anonymous
This: Guys rarely post pictures with kids who aren’t their own.
BabyAssociate
My experience online dating has been the total opposite. Lots of guys post pictures with nieces/nephews, but they’re clearly marked as such.
Is it Friday yet?
Same – I think it’s a strategy they employ because presumably a lot of women want guys that are good with kids, and showing a picture with a kid climbing all over you shows that. But there’s always the ***PHOTO WITH NEPHEW*** at the bottom, haha.
anon
Agreed with you both. I always wonder if they think my ovaries will light up at the picture or something and I’ll be more likely to swipe. (Spoiler alert: no.)
anon
He’s telling you on the second date, not the tenth. I’d give him the benefit of the doubt. I’d also be hesitant to read too much into his Facebook profile. Some people don’t update and post that often. I do think it’s crucial, though, to ask whether he’s separated or truly divorced.
Anon
The dude is married. Sorry.
Anonymous
IDK — I feel like depending on the person’s age, they may not be on FB ever, so updating something may just not be on the task list. I eventually updated mine to be married once my spouse got on FB (so I could be married to him), but it was like 3 years later (I think it was silent before; I also wasn’t dating).
AND YET I know some guys who ought to use the “it’s complicated” warning flag on their status, because I used to work with a married guy who dated. I’m not sure if he even had moved out. And I’m not sure how forthcoming he was with that (and I know plenty of divorcing people who backslide with their separated-from spouse). I just want to make sure that I’m dealing with someone emotionally available and that if I sleep with the person, they aren’t sleeping with someone else (especially if it is a spouse).
The original Scarlett
Listen to your intuition. You can argue both sides of this one but you went in the date with him and know how you feel. Trust in a relationship is crucial, and if you are getting a shady vibe, listen to that.
Worry About Yourself
The second date sounds like a perfectly fine time to mention the “btw, there’s something you should know” details, after going over the “fun stuff” on the first date and deciding there’s chemistry. However, I would definitely ask him why it says he’s still married on social media. It’s possible he doesn’t want to officially change his status until everything is finalized and the people who really need to know have already been told. It’s possible he just hasn’t thought to change that detail yet. Or it’s entirely possible he’s still married, but I’d ask him before making assumptions.
Nan
+1 to all of this.
Anonymous
+1 This is where I come down too. Second date seems like a fine time to disclose and you definitely need to ask some questions to find out more and how he reacts.
Angela
To me, second date is plenty early enough. First date is for figuring out if you’re both attracted to each other and want to see each other again. Since you both passed each other’s initial screen, second date is the time to get more deep/personal, IMO. But you get to make this judgment for yourself, so if you aren’t interested anymore based on his revelations or the timing, that’s up to you.
Anon
I think mentioning it on the second date is ok.
A lot of people set up a Facebook profile and never look at it again. My husband is one of those people. He hasn’t looked at it in at least 5 years, if not more. I guarantee that if we get divorced, he won’t log back in to change his relationship status.
Anonymous
Verifying information on public social media isn’t creeping. People absolutely update their social media when they get divorced. I’ve had multiple guys message me on the FB dating app, which tells first name. But if we have friends in common, which the app identifies, it is easy to go to the friend’s page, search by first name, and find the person. So far, 3 of them have been married/partnered.
Bottom line, this guy seems evasive and married. I wouldn’t waste my valuable time on someone like this.
TrixieRuby
His not disclosing this info from the very start is not a deal breaker, IMO. He told you on the second date, so that is pretty up front. Keep going, and enjoy dating him, but do ask him to be fully honest about his marital status. All of us have so much information to share re: health, family background, work, etc., and keeping his child private for a while is ok by me.
Anonymous
Why not say ” Hey I looked at your facebook and it says you are married. What’s the deal”? be honest.
ElisaR
THANK YOU ANONYMOUS AT 12:12!! This is exactly what one should do.
Anonymous
Nah, that just gives him the chance to hide his fb so future dates aren’t warned. Just ask him when his divorce was final, etc.
Curly Girl
How does it work if you aren’t happy with your hair cut? I know you can call and ask them to fix it, but are they going to give any pushback? Do I still tip the stylist? 20%?
I had a haircut last weekend and asked for 3-4 inches off, showed a picture of last time it was cut that I liked (hair just brushing my shoulders), but then I admit when I put my hand against my shoulder to show how long i wanted it, my hand was at my shoulder not above it (I was nervous because it was my first time at this salon and I guess trying to communicate I didn’t want it totally chopped off). After the cut my hair is definitely below my shoulder by 1-2 inches (so I think she only cut off 1-2 inches). So I’m not sure if I did a bad job communicating or she just didn’t listen. I have curly hair so when I said at the appointment that I wasn’t sure it was short enough she said when it dries it would become the length I want.
Anonymous
Just call and explain that actually when your hair dried it wasn’t as short as you wanted and they’ll get you back in
Cookbooks
+1 Since this was your first time and you have curly hair, I’m guessing the stylist erred on the safe side and didn’t cut quite enough to account for shrinkage.
Curly Girl
Ok thanks! Any idea if I should still tip?
Anon
I would. First, it’s not clear they ‘messed up’ so much as you weren’t explicit in your guidance. And second, assuming it’s a tip you can afford, why not – it’s the nice thing to do.
Cookbooks
I think this depends on whether or not they charge you. If you’re not charged, I believe tipping is at your discretion.
Anonymous
Yes. This isn’t egregious
Strawberry
Yeah, my guess is she erred on the safe side. The woman who cuts my hair will almost always cut a bit less than she thinks I want – she’s literally said, well, if it’s not enough, I can cut more, I can’t reattach your hair if I cut too much. You should have said something at the time, but I would just call and say “hey, when it dried at home it’s actually not quite as short as I’d like – could I come in to have it trimmed a bit more?”
Anon
With curly hair you should be getting a dry cut anyway so you can see how long it will end up being.
DCR
This only kind of works, for me at least. My hair is not nearly as curly when it’s longer because the weight hold it down. If I got 4 inches cut off, my hair would be significantly shorter than 4 inches less, more like 6 inches shorter than my current hair. And that’s not always noticeable until the next day after I washed and styled it myself.
Having said that, OP should call the salon and I bet they’ll have her come in to have it fixed for free.
Anon
My best friend from growing up/high school was diagnosed with breast cancer a year ago and recently completed her treatment, and as far as I know the outlook is very good. When I saw her recently when we were both home for the holidays she said that she was going to quit her job in a few months and do a cross-country tour with her long time partner in a custom RV/van that they just bought. I love her like family but we just aren’t that close anymore unfortunately, but I’d like to send her a gift that she can use on her upcoming trip. Any suggestions for something small that wouldn’t take up too much space in their van?
Anonymous
National Parks membership!
Anon
This or one of those state park passes that can be used in multiple states – I think it’s America the Beautiful or something? She may already have a national parks pass but there are amazing state parks out there too.
Go for it
Backpack that zips into itself for quick day trips (on the river site). They’re around $20 & are super useful.
Windup flashlight/emergency radio.
Anon
FYI, you don’t need to say the river site. The word Amazon is fine here and won’t block your comment.
Anon
I have a great one of these from Eastern Mountain Sports.
pugsnbourbon
I got my mom a compact rain jacket that zips into itself – takes up very little space.
Headlamps are also VERY useful on the road (and at home, and at work, really everywhere; I love headlamps).
anonymous
My thought was gift cards to places like Target, WalMart, Lowes, Home Depot in case they need to buy supplies while they are on the road.
Anonymous
Is anyone using Personal Capital for their investing services, and how is your experience? My husband and I are thinking of working with them and I wanted to do some research…we’re early 30s, newly married, no kids yet, and would invest around $200k combined.
Korvapuusti
My husband and I are at the same stage of life and use the app. We did the initial info call/ walk through about their investing services when we set it up. Frankly, we weren’t that impressed with their analysis of our portfolio and felt that with a couple hours a month we could get the same benefit through the self-guided investment strategy at Charles Schwab (which is what we’re doing).
Anonymous
We are you! Early 30s, no kids yet, 250k invested w them. I liked the app and we’ve used that for two years. We did the intro call about a year ago and didn’t go forward but life and work got so busy over the last year i decided to give it a shot (I have no time or really mental bandwidth to focus on rebalancing etc). We have been happy with it so far. The few is 0.89% and I anticipate we will get that value in tax loss harvesting alone, and I like having a full team to ask a range of questions to. We will prob re evaluate annually or in two years and see if it’s worth it. For now we’ve been happy with the service.
Anonymous
I love this even though I wouldn’t buy it – made a rule a couple years ago that all my work shirts need to look good with only a steamer.
Anonymous
I have shirts with similar ruffles around the neck and they look fine with steaming only. I would definitely steam this shirt and think it would turn out fine!
Anonymous
Looking for resources on how to respond to gender based comments in the professional setting. I feel like I am always shocked and then think of a “good” reply (whether retort or redirect) days later. Using some examples from yesterday’s posts-
– someone assumes the lawyer is a court reporter or paralegal
– someone makes a comment about physical attractiveness / attire of the only female in the board room
– partner calls female associates “honey” or “dear”
I’m struggling to find online resources that have responses – most just say “it’s not ok” or “report it.”
Allie
A training I attended suggested just saying “ouch.” It’s clear that what was said was not okay, but not so intense as to get into a whole big thing.
Vicky Austin
In this vein, I like a displeased “wow.”
Anon
“Excuse me?” said as if you actually didn’t hear. See if they repeat it.
anon
Been there….I like ouch, that’s a good one
Ribena
I’ve heard “you must be really embarrassed to have said that” or alternatively asking the person to repeat/explain what they said as if you haven’t understood it.
Anonymous
“Call me Nancy” usually does the trick.
Anon
I would do this instead of a passive aggressive, awkward “wow.” It’s direct and makes the point without blowing things out of proportion.
Lilliet
Except…. it may not be direct and make a point because I don’t know what it means or what it’s in reference to. I even searched but nothing obvious appeared…
CountC
It’s just a statement telling the person to call you by your actual name instead of honey, dear, etc.
Anon
For the first, I correct nicely and directly. Something like “oh no, I’m the lead engineer” etc. or introductions work nicely. For comments like the second, I sometimes ask them to repeat like I didn’t hear. I don’t snark, I don’t brush it off, I’m very calm and direct and don’t catch on to any humor the person is attempting. Usually I don’t want to be combative and don’t want to appear that I understand any attempts at bad behavior and am thus putting up with their nonsense. Works very well for me.
The original Scarlett
Great pick, I’ve had it in my shopping cart for days, just waiting for one of their inevitable sales
Anonymous
Are brightly colored pencil skirts coming back in? I remember when my wardrobe was primarily a colorful pencil skirt + neutral-ish top.
The original Scarlett
I’m not sure – my office and geography in general are casual so it would take a lot to get me to go back to the pencil skirt days
Anon2
Seems to me that it looks good on the J Crew website, but I would feel weird breaking out that look again… Maybe once the weather warms up? Or maybe the pencil skirt cut has to be slightly different than I wore it 5ish years ago, e.g., longer and slimmer? I’m in NYC Biglaw, fwiw.
UHU
How do you keep shirts looking crisp? The detail on this pic is lovely but … the ironing! Even with flat button downs I can never iron them well enough that they look store fresh. Is a steamer the way to go? Any recs?
Anon
Back when I wore button downs, I washed my button downs at home and took them to the cleaners for pressing only. Life’s too short to try to iron cotton shirts crisply.
Saguaro
Same. It was worth the pressing cost.
Anonymous
If you haven’t already tried using starch, that makes a difference.
Senior Attorney
I just send them out. It’s worth it to me and I’m not very sweaty so I get at least a couple of wearings out of them.
Cali Business Travel Help
Hoping someone can help with some travel logistics. I don’t spend enough time west of the Mississippi: I’m in Boston. I need to be in South Lake Tahoe on a Monday around noon in late February. I then need to be in San Diego proper for Tuesday at noon, where I will be through Friday when I fly home. Can someone gut check if this makes logistical sense:
– Sunday PM – Boston to Reno, rent car and check into hotel in Reno Sunday night
– Monday – morning drive to South Lake Tahoe, see a property around noon (very flexible and informal, only 30-60 mins), afternoon drive back to Reno airport and fly to San Diego Monday night
– Tuesday AM – wake up in San Diego, meetings start at noon Tuesday, conference starts Wednesday and then I fly home Friday.
Does the first part of the trip sound reasonable? Is Reno where you’d fly in to and rent a car from to get to South Lake Tahoe? There are no direct BOS>Reno or BOS>Sacramento, so from that perspective Reno puts me 60 mins closer than Sacramento to Tahoe, but if it’s a nice drive from Sacramento to Tahoe, I’d consider flying in to Sacramento. I’ll be solo until Tuesday PM and I’d love to do a little (couple hours) of scenic driving and sight seeing sometime on Monday while in Tahoe… so maybe I should fly from Reno to SD on Tuesday AM? What do people think? TIA!
Anon
It’s a nice enough drive from Sacramento to Tahoe, but on that timeframe, I’d probably just go with Reno because you’re not really going to have enough time to appreciate the area and the Reno site is nice too.
Anon
Yes this is do-able if the flight from Reno is on time. But that’s a risk anywhere anytime.
The original Scarlett
I would fly into Reno as you suggest, but also be cautioned that Lake Tahoe is in the mountains and it snows in February. I’ve had flights to Reno cancelled in winter many times. I wouldn’t do Sac because drive times on weekends are a nightmare as Tahoe is where the whole Bay Area goes and plays on he weekends, so tons of traffic. The TL/DR Reno gets you close in perfect weather, but I’d consider another time of year if you have to be in San Diego the next day.
OP
Thanks. No negotiation on the time of year. This business trip has to happen now. Barring any other compelling feedback from the group, I’m leaning Sunday Boston > Reno and Monday night Reno > SD. If things go haywire with weather, I may get out Tuesday AM in time for the Tuesday PM meetings. As a Bostonian I appreciate weather-related flight delays in the winter, so I’m at peace with the fact that only so much of this is in my control.
Coach Laura
Since it’s February and you can’t predict the weather, I’d get the earliest flight into Reno that you can so if the flight is delayed, you have more options. The comments about missing flights and being delayed are the main issue, along with needing 4wd or AWD.
Anon
The traffic in that direction from SAC to Tahoe would be fine on a Sunday night.
Anon
+1, but either airport I think is fine.
This may be obvious, but be sure to rent a 4 wheel or All wheel drive car. Tire chains are often required on regular cars that time of year (at the very least you are required to have them on you), which for a variety of reasons you don’t want to deal with for a rental car.
anon
Make sure your car rental is AWD – ask me how I know….
anon
Are the sleeves supposed to be short? Because you can tell they are on the model although the photo editor tried to hide it a bit.
pugsnbourbon
They look like a 3/4 sleeve on the model, who I assume is taller and lankier than the average person. On me they’d probably be bracelet-length.
Abby
DH and I are taking a 3 day weekend in May to celebrate our anniversary – last year we went to Toronto and had a great time! Any recommendations? I’m considering: Austin, NOLA, Charleston, Savannah but am open to other options.
Ideally would want a direct flight from Michigan, but not necessary, more important is that it’s not a very long flight since we only have 3 days. We like good food & drinks (cocktails or craft beer), walkable city so we won’t have to rent a car, warm weather would be nice but we’re from Michigan so the bar is pretty low. We’ve never been to NOLA or Austin together, but I’m not sure if NOLA is best saved for an inevitable bach party? We’re late 20’s without kids.
anonymous
NOLA is great for good food and drinks. There are some fancy restaurants that would be great for an anniversary dinner. Arnaud’s is one that comes to mind. And it’s easily walkable and will definitely be warm in May.
Angela
I wouldn’t consider Austin very walkable. YMMV, and there are pockets that are walkable I guess, but things a pretty spread out because everyone drives, and there’s no public transportation except the bus system. I guess you could rely on Uber, or just plan to stay downtown, but in that instance you’re not really experiencing “Austin.”
Squid
I’ve only been to NOLA and Austin, so I can’t speak to other options. IME, NOLA is a little more walkable than Austin (I lived there for 5 years and we walked 5-10 miles every weekend, but we were just exploring), but they are both walkable and great foodie destinations. You’ll have to get an uber from the airport either way. If you choose Austin, stay downtown. You just have to pick a direction and walk until you want a drink, yelp a place and pop in. You might need to Uber back to your hotel, but they’re easy to get. Austin is pretty safe.
If you choose NOLA, I’d encourage you to stay around Magazine as it’s more walkable than the French Quarter and you can take the trolley from Magazine to the Quarter if you want to (be mindful of when the last trolley goes back to magazine otherwise you’ll have to get an uber back to your airbnb – it’s pretty early like 10PM I think?) You can walk all around the Quarter, but outside the quarter gets sketchy pretty quick. Ask bartenders where to go and how to get there. Jazzfest weekend 2 is May 3 this year. It won’t ruin your trip, but hotels/airbnbs will be more expensive. OTOH, Jazzfest is fun people watching. Enjoy your trip, wherever you choose!
Anon
I would do Charleston. It has amazing food & drink and is fairly walkable if you stay in the central areas. And it will be quite a bit less hot and humid than NOLA, which is already (in my opinion anyway) unpleasantly warm in May.
Asheville Recs
+1 to Charleston. Gin Joint for cocktails, Fig for a nice meal out, 647 Raw for for seafood, great galleries, etc.
Anon
Disagree – I’m from the Gulf Coast and found Charleston to be the absolute hottest and most humid place I have ever been, much more so than New Orleans during the same time period.
Anon
Data says you’re wrong. Charleston is average high of 83 degrees and 72% humidity in May. NOLA is average 85 degrees and 74% humidity. Not a huge difference, but NOLA is hotter and more humid in that time period.
Anon
Data says you’re wrong. Charleston May average is 78% humidity while New Orleans May average is 69% humidity.
PolyD
I felt NOLA was bearable because it seemed like you could feel the breeze off the river more. Full disclosure – I went there in July and had a great time, even with the heat! But I live in DC, so I’m used to hot summers. But at least in NOLA you can drink a cold beer (or frozen Irish coffee) as you walk down the street in the heat.
Seriously, NOLA is one of my favorite places I’ve ever been and I would highly recommend it over Charleston, even with the heat. So much to do there!
Casper
Keep in mind that May is college graduation season in Charleston (2nd and 3rd weekends usually, especially mother’s day weekend) and hotels book up months in advance and get very expensive
Worry About Yourself
That’s good to mention, a lot of people probably wouldn’t think of that! But I’ll add that May is graduation season in a lot of cities, so it’s good to keep in mind for travel in general.
SC
New Orleans would be great for an anniversary. It’s usually hot in May but not unbearable yet. There are lots of romantic restaurants and activities that you likely wouldn’t go to during a bach party. Bayona is my favorite for a romantic dinner. I’d also get a hotel with a pool so you can relax and cool off during the afternoon. The French Quarter area is walkable, and the street cars take you uptown or City Park. Geographically, the city isn’t that spread out, so Ubers and Lyfts are pretty affordable.
The first weekend in May is Jazz Fest, so I would avoid that weekend unless you’re specifically interested in Jazz Fest. There’s a food and wine festival (NOWFE) during Memorial Day weekend, but in my experience, the high ticket prices are not justified. NOWFE doesn’t seem to attract enough people to significantly impact crowds, hotel prices, etc.
Anon
+100 to Bayona!
Abby
Anniversary is the first weekend…is the weekend just more crowded/expensive because of the Jazz Fest? Flights I’ve looked at are reasonable, I haven’t looked into hotels at all. Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions!
Anonymous
I was there last year during Jazz Fest, not for Jazz Fest and I didn’t think it was that bad. We did not stay in the Quarter, though we went out there at night. Oddly, the nicer restaurants and bars seemed quieter than expected. Avoid any hotels that have the shuttle to the festival.
SC
Yes, the first weekend of May is more crowded and typically more expensive because of Jazz Fest. If you find decent rates on flights and hotels, you can get reservations for dinner if you plan ahead, especially if you want to eat before the festival lets out (around 8). If you like live music, there are lot of venues with really good musicians at night. But, honestly, I’d prefer NOLA the following weekend if your dates are flexible.
SC
I’ll add that I am not a Jazz Fest enthusiast. If you see the opportunity to go to Jazz Fest as a perk for that weekend, then absolutely don’t hesitate!
Anon
Btw– NOLA and Austin fill up fast and are expensive in May. I think it’s a great time to go weather wise, but they both have college graduations and lots of weddings during that time. I went to a wedding in Austin the first week in May, and hotels/flights were insane. There was no graduation that weekend, but our Uber driver told us that Austin’s wedding season is really only about 4 weeks– we literally ran into weddings everywhere we went the whole weekend.
Abby
Ooh this is a good point – I’m using a companion flight, so that cuts costs, but I didn’t think about graduations or weddings.
Duckles
I’d vote, if the three I have visited, in order, NOLA (GREAT food, lots of live music, very walkable and has a streetcar, have done two long weekends in the last five years), Austin (lots of stuff to do, but not very walkable, food and drinks was fine but not memorable), then Charleston (cute but very small/not much to do, and the food in the southern restaurants in my large home city is better than the actual southern restaurants there).
Abby
Thank you Duckles, and everyone else, for such thoughtful responses! I think you’ve swayed me to visit New Orleans. I will report back when we book tickets for specific recs!
Anon
To those of you who work from home, how do you make sure you’re not still in pajamas at 2pm? I’m leaving my office job for a consulting gig that is 90% from home, but last time I worked from home regularly (2ish days per week) I found myself in the pajama situation. Part of the issue was back to back calls that started very early (I’m on the west coast and the calls started first thing east coast time) but even though I won’t have that exact issue in the new gig, I know how easy it is to fall into the trap.
Also, I won’t have a full time book to start with so I’m open to tips about how to fill up my time so I don’t feel like I haven’t accomplished anything all day.
Anon
I mean, what answer is there other than change out of pajamas before you start working? You know you need to do this so just do it. Alternatively, you can just embrace it.
Anon
I personally don’t have problems putting on clothing, but if you have this tendency, what about sleeping in athleisure wear that doubles as day clothes? At least this way you can step outside to do an errand.
anonymous
Do your morning routine as you normally would if you are doing into work. Shower, brush teeth, do your hair, change into “work” clothes.
Cb
I’d try and get out of the house first thing. Go out for coffee or a quick walk that requires you to brush teeth, hair, change into actual clothes (even if it is just leggings).
Housecounsel
I get out of the house. When school is in session this is easy, because I go drop my daughter at school and then go into Starbucks – no drive-through – for coffee. When there is no school, I still go for my special latte. I often run into people I know so there is incentive to look presentable, even in athleisure.
Anon
Idk, what’s wrong with being in pyjamas while you’re working?
Anon
IKR? That’s half the joy of it. Plus, being conscious of those little perks helps keeps me on task.
anon
This is a time management problem and people who don’t work from home don’t understand how difficult it can be to protect your time – I find the work increases when we work from home. There is an expectation that you are always available and the back to back calls seem to never end. You have to be very intentional about your time, how you use it to make sure you take care of yourself – exercise, shower, get dressed, breaks for meals.
AnonATL
I don’t go the full athleisure route, but I’m definitely a fan of jeggings/comfortable pants and a simple solid colored shirt. If I don’t get real clothes on, I just feel gross all day. I change as soon as I get up, it takes 2 minutes, and then I get on with my day. I don’t usually do my hair or makeup, but putting on proper clothes does make a difference.
My goal is to look nice enough that I wouldn’t be embarrassed to run into someone I knew if I were out running errands.
WFHome
I wear Athleisure to WFH. I put it on first thing in the morning, including my sneakers. This way I feel like I am “dressed”, and I am ready to work out (if I have time, even if it is just a short walk), and I am presentable to run errands. For some reason wearing shoes helps me feel more dressed and awake. If I am working in my cozy slippers, I feel more relaxed and like taking a nap!
anon
I’ve had pretty good luck with just setting a schedule for myself as though I needed to leave the house to commute – so, at a certain point, setting down my coffee, going and brushing my teeth, washing my face, dressing, etc. And then I go up to my office to work.
The other thing that really helped was not trying to dress in work clothes – in particular, having comfy pants and soft socks and slippers. I’m dressed exactly as I would be for the office from the waist up, but since I’m sitting all day, being in something I actively want to wear helps, but still gets me out of my PJs.
Anonymous
I WFH exclusively (unless I’m traveling). I get up and shower at 6:30am. I don’t get back into my PJs afterward.
Woods-comma-Elle
I see a personal trainer near home, so I normally try to schedule in a session in the morning of my WFH day, so I have to get up and go to the gym and then when I come back, I’ll shower and get dressed. I also have dedicated ‘WFH clothes’ that are casual but I don’t wear them otherwise.
Rainbow Hair
Do you have fun fashiony friends to whom you can text selfies? My squad did “LoveYourSelfietember” or something, I forget the jokey hashtag, but the point was to look our best for no other reason than that it was fun and felt good, and to send photos so we could cheer one another on.
Pep
Lay out your comfy non-pajama outfit the night before, so that it’s ready and waiting when you get up.
Anon Lawyer
Get a dog you have to take out in the morning. And anyway, having a doggie co-worker is key to remote work success for me.
NYNY
I mean, you can always sleep naked…
Coach Laura
I have been there with the 5:00am or 5:30am PST conference calls. I always roll out of bed and brush teeth and put on clean undergarments, then the t-shirt, yoga pants and jacket. For me the key is undergarments, as I don’t sleep in br@ or und!es. I agree with the person who says shoes and socks. That should only take 5 minutes if you like to sleep in like I do. In this outfit, I could go into a starbucks or post office.
Regarding things to keep you busy, I think you should write an article or read industry (online) journals or do an online class in project management, improving excel skills or something helpful for your new job.
OC Queen
I work from home about 80% of the time and this is my usual routine:
– wake up and go for morning run.
– Log on and start working in my running clothes around 9am
– Keep working through morning, make myself something to eat, drink coffee
– Around 11:30am I go take a shower, get dressed in better clothes then usually go out to Whole Foods to get stuff needed for dinner.
– Keep working until around 4pm when I start working/prepping for dinner.
2L from Tuesday
I’m the unhappy 2L poster from yesterday’s morning thread. I wanted to thank everyone who commented for your kind words — I needed to hear the overwhelming advice, and your support and encouragement really meant a lot. I’m following up on all the great suggestions one by one and will report back on how it goes, hopefully from a better mental space than where I am now.
Housecounsel
Looking forward to hearing back and glad you are seeking help!
Sicily
I’m going to Eastern Sicily in early May – anyone got recommendations? We’ll be staying around Mt Etna and then Syracuse, and renting a car.
cbackson
Taormina is expensive but gorgeous. I stayed at the San Domenico and it was one of my favorite hotels ever. I also enjoyed Enna, as well as the necropolis of Pantalica.
We also hopped over to Malta for a few days, which I loved.
Senior Attorney
This is a cycling tour I did a few years ago (on my honeymoon) and each and every one of the stops and hotels was divine: https://www.mondobiketours.com/tours/view/sicily-bike-tour
(Also see if you can spot my hubby and me in front of the castle next to the parked bicycles!)
Pep
Saw you! Looks like an amazing trip.
Anonymous
Nice looking couple!!
Anon
I would appreciate any recommendations on where to stay for a family vacation in NYC in April. We will have 2 adults and a 5 and 6 year old. We’re planning to do typical tourist attractions – Broadway show, Statue of Liberty, museums, etc. I’m a bit overwhelmed by all of the hotel options!
CPNY
I went last Christmas break with kids and stayed at the Park Lane hotel. It is south Central Park (right across the street from CP, which I liked). It’s a bit north, but it was a good location for us to see some shows on Broadway, and do stuff one day uptown and another day downtown. And Central Park is fun for the kids, just to to walk around, take a carriage ride. I would recommend the Museum of Natural History for kids that age.
waffles
one of my favourites is the Marriott Residence Inn Times Square. It’s technically closer to Bryant Park than to Times Square. The rooms are large, and have small kitchens which is nice to keep down costs. Breakfast is included. It’s reasonably priced. And it’s well-located – walkable to fifth avenue, times square, and close to good subway lines.
NYCer
Slightly more off the typical tourist path, but I think that the Excelsior Hotel on the UWS is a fabulous location for an NYC vacation with kids. It is half a block to Central Park and across the street from the Natural History Museum. There is a B/C subway station on the same block, and the 1 station is an easy walk. Lots of family friendly dining options nearby too.
SC
Since you’re going with kids, the Hotel Beacon has some of the largest rooms for the price available in NYC. The suites have a separate living room with a pull-out couch and a kitchenette. There is a grocery store across the street to buy breakfast, snacks, milk, etc. There are a lot of casual, neighborhood restaurants nearby. You’re a couple blocks away from Central Park, near the Natural History Museum, and a short walk from the 1/2/3 station (where you can get express trains downtown).
For similar reasons, the Double Tree in Times Square is a good option. It’s more convenient to theaters and multiple subway lines, and the cookies are awesome. But it’s probably more expensive, is in the middle of the craziness of Times Square, and can be noisy if you’re not on a high floor. There’s also an Embassy Suites and a Homewood Suites a little south of Times Square.
Anon
What do we think about Pete (likely) winning the Iowa caucuses? I’m very relieved Bernie didn’t win, but I’m not sure Pete is really a top tier candidate outside of the Midwest, so I feel like Pete taking momentum from Biden and other moderates may just benefit Bernie in the end.
Anon
He’s not a top tier candidate but at least it sheds light on Biden being as weak as many of us have been saying for months. Bernie isn’t my top choice this year, but out of the available choices and given the absurd problems Warren will face (sexism, “Pocahontas”, etc.), I believe he will be best poised to beat Trump. Clinton needs to stand down on attacking him; there’s a good op-ed in the Guardian to that effect: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/04/stay-out-of-this-election-hillary-clinton-youre-doing-more-harm-than-good
Anon
Biden clearly didn’t run a great campaign in Iowa, but I don’t think primary electability and general election electability are that correlated. In fact, I think they’re almost inversely correlated. Primaries favor people more to the fringes of the party, whereas general elections tend to favor people who are more moderate. Polls still suggest that Biden, if he could become the nominee, would do very well in a head-to-head matchup against Trump.
Anon
So would Bernie, but as we learned last time around, polls can be misleading. I’m not putting too much stock into them this year.
Anon
Arggh this is my #1 pet peeve. THE POLLS WERE NOT WRONG IN 2016. They had Hillary ahead by ~2.5 points nationally and she won the popular vote by 2%. In fact, it was some of the most accurate presidential polling in recent memory. The problem is that people didn’t pay enough to state polls that showed the election basically being a tossup in key swing states that Hillary ended up losing.
Anon
The thing is though, the Republicans are keeping their powder dry on Bernie because they WANT him to be the nominee. It’s not a coincidence that he hasn’t gotten names like Pochantas yet – it’s a deliberate R strategy to help him become the nominee. That will all change as soon as he wins the nomination. Believe me, in an excellent economy, it will not be hard for Rs to convince people not to vote for an avowed socialist who is open about wanting to take away their healthcare. Bernie is also Jewish and while I don’t think this country is as anti-Semitic as it is sexist, I think people are discounting the prejudice that will be thrown at him by the GOP once he becomes the nominee.
Angela
How did that work out for the Dems WRT last year? I remember gloating like crazy when he became the nominee… oops.
Point being, be careful what you wish for.
Anonymous
She made one comment in an interview get over it
anon
On that Clinton comment – it seems to me that she wouldn’t attack him so openly if he had real backing in the Democratic party. They haven’t forgiven him for the part he played in 2016.
Anon
Yeah I’m not a huge fan of her comments (mainly because I don’t think they accomplished anything except helping Bernie) but I definitely think it’s true that nobody likes him personally. He seems like an abrasive and incredibly difficult person. Quite frankly, I think he’s a narcissist just like Trump. I mean, most people in politics presumably have a (very) healthy dose of ego, but those two seem more extreme, to the point where they demean others and lack empathy and things like that.
anon
The fact that career politicians don’t like him is a GREAT thing, in my opinion. Clinton alienating voters with this comment reinforces why she lost to the dumbest, most corrupt and unqualified candidate in the history of the US.
Anon
+1,000,000 He’s the only of the democratic candidates I’d really have to hold my nose to vote for and that’s because he and Trump are two sides of the same coin. They both use popular anger (both are equally guilty) and misogyny (Sanders not as often as Trump) to achieve their goals.
anon
I think he’s more similar to Trump than anyone else running. I don’t know who here listens to the NYTimes’s Deliberation podcast but their interview with him showed that. Every time they challenged how he would get a policy idea done he would say that he would “take it to the people” and he would get it done that way. It could have been a trump interview.
Anon
HE shouldn’t forgive THEM for their role in quashing his candidacy. It was deplorable and ended up supporting Trump’s eventual victory. The DNC is garbage and no one should care about them.
Anon
lollll sure Jan. Hillary won pledged delegates and then Bernie – who had for months been accusing Hillary of trying to use superdelegates to steal the election – turned around and tried to convince the superdelegates to steal the election for HIM, even though the majority of voters had chosen someone else.
I am also Never Bernie. The man is pure, unadulterated evil (and absolutely unelectable, but that’s not the main reason I don’t support him). I would vote for almost any Democrat, Republic or Independent (like Angus King from Maine! He’s an Independent Senator who’s actually awesome) over Trump, but I will not vote for Bernie.
Lily
I’m so sick of people not supporting Warren (or Klobuchar or whomever) because they’re worried a woman can’t get elected because sexism. You are part of the problem! Vote for your preferred candidate, and then support whatever Democrat wins the primary!
I personally refuse to vote for a man, let alone a white man, in the primary, in view of the fact that we have two competent women running. Women make up 51% of the population; it’s ridiculous we STILL have not had a woman president. I’m tired of not seeing people who look like me/have faced the same issues I have faced being in positions of power. Mayor Pete can sit down and wait his turn – he’ll be around for the next 40 years anyway.
Z
+1000
anon
+1. I like Sanders but will be supporting Warren in the primaries.
Anon
That was my comment and I’m voting for Warren – I’m just not sure others will be.
Anonymous
I’d never vote for Warren, but that’s IMO on the merits. I’d never vote for Klobuchar b/c she is abusive for her staff. I’d vote for Tulsi Gabbard if there were no one running, but would prefer just to have other candidates, skirt-wearers or not.
Anon
My issue is I want Trump out. In any other election year I’d vote Warren. I 100% do not think that Warren or Sanders can beat Trump. So, now I’m left deciding who to vote for from the rest.
Quail
+1000. I’ve got my Warren stickers, signs, t-shirts all for this reason – I think there’s a lot of hidden support for her that once revealed would snowball, because her biggest hurdle is “other people won’t vote for her”
Anon
Yes!
anon
I’m voting for Warren. I’m not convinced she can beat Trump but if she’s the nominee I’ll go to work for her
anon
I think it will benefit Bernie, which I am very pleased about.
Anonymous
I’m displeased but agree, very good showing from him. He should have a commanding victory in NH so I think the real challenge will be the next round.
Anonymous
Except that he will lose in a general election. I think it highlights that out of all of the candidates, it is a weak field that remains. I like him the best of anyone still in the race.
FWIW, I went down a twitter black hole overnight about how Mayor Pete isn’t that popular with black voters. To which I’d be curious to know — what does Biden really have going for him? And do we think that a socialist will be an improvement? And Warren’s student loan forgiveness program I see as something that makes life more expensive for people on the lowest rung while who then have to pay for subsidizing those with the advantage of a college degree, so also not good for current low-wage adults who often can’t afford to drop out of the workforce and earn a degree.
I feel like I just want to give up now. The only thing left of interest is the running-mate-jeopardy game I play in my head. Mayor-Pete/Castro ticket might be appealing (very young though).
anon
I’ve never understood what Biden has going for him either. I always thought Obama picked him to appease the racists.
Anonymous
I think the main takeaway is that Biden is not doing well and Kobluchar should drop out.
Truth
As an incredibly undecided voter in this election season who is not affiliated with a party and who has voted D and R in multiple elections…honestly (in order of importance)?
1. He’s not Bernie or Warren.
2. Incredibly smart and sharp.
3. Where he lacks in experience I have faith that he has the smarts to fill gaps by building the appropriate team around him.
4. He has military experience, which I think can offer a unique perspective, or at least ‘credibility’ among some voters (not necessarily me – I’d like him with out it, but I do like the idea of it).
I know it’s unpopular around here, but if Bernie or Warren get the nod, I legitimately don’t know who I will vote for. I would vote Biden, and MOST other D’s who have dropped out by now, but the two of them are far, far more than I can handle on so many fronts… and she’s my senator (so likely my indecision doesn’t actually matter because MA goes blue, like, always… but still). Similarly, the thought of voting Trump makes me want to crawl into a hole and never look myself in the mirror again.
Anon
Honestly, get over yourself. No one cares if you have to handwring to vote for Bernie. We do care if you’re a Democrat and you don’t vote because “ew Bernie.” That’s an absolutely disgusting position when Bernie is an experienced, non-insane candidate with policies that will help the poor and middle class.
Anon
I would quibble with “non-insane” and his policies will economically devastate us. I’m affluent and not opposed to paying more taxes to help poor people, but I don’t want to be kicked off my private health insurance or have all my wealth taken away and redistributed. I agree that medical emergencies shouldn’t bankrupt you, and more people should have access to Medicaid, but healthcare works great for a large majority of this country currently. I have friends in socialized medicine countries and have heard horror stories about waiting months for non-urgent surgeries, including biopsies.
Also, Bernie only seems to care poor white men, not women or POC. Elizabeth Warren is the candidate talking about universal childcare, not Bernie.
Anon
So you would vote for Trump because Bernie isn’t 100% perfect in your eyes? You’re either for Trump all along or just completely missing the point.
Anon
Your takeaway from my comment was that “Bernie is not 100% perfect”!? Um, that’s not quite what I said..I don’t think any of the candidates are even close to 100% perfect, but I would gladly support anybody but Bernie.
You have no idea about the hundreds of hours I put into phone-banking and knocking doors for Hillary in my swing state. But if you want to tell yourself that I was “Trump all along,” enjoy your fantasy.
Anon
No, I get that you don’t like some of Bernie’s policies, just like I don’t like many things about Biden and Klobuchar. However, compared to the horrendous excuse for a human that is Trump, I will freaking sprint to the polls to vote for them. It doesn’t sound like you would do the same.
anon
“I would quibble with “non-insane” and his policies will economically devastate us.”
Honestly– do you think that his election means that his policies will actually be put into place? I mean, really? You don’t think there will be any barriers in place that stop his election from automatically meaning that all of your “wealth” gets “redistributed” and your healthcare gets taken away? I’m shocked by how many intelligent, aware people seem to be so afraid that the election of a progressive Democrat means that there is a high chance that these policies that are very controversial, very different philosophically than what we’re used to as a country, and very expensive will just -*poof*- easily pass and come into existence. It defies reason. Yes, the needle might get moved in a more progressive direction, but do you think that the other side of the political aisle and moderate Democrats are just gonna shrug and say, “Oh well, free college and socialized medicine it is, then!”?
“but healthcare works great for a large majority of this country currently.”
LOL.
“Also, Bernie only seems to care poor white men, not women or POC. Elizabeth Warren is the candidate talking about universal childcare, not Bernie.”
Agree here.
anon
In case you haven’t, I really suggest that you look a little closer into Bernie’s (and maybe Warren’s) plans on the wealth tax. IF they continue to both do well in the primaries, it doesn’t hurt to be well informed, right? Personally, I see a lot of question marks in the practical implementation of a wealth tax – the infrastructure to value every last vehicle, necklace and painting of rich people – I just don’t see that happening. But in the broad strokes, I find them pretty tame. With Bernie, your first 32 million stay untouched, with Warren, it’s 50. Then they start with 1 or 2% tax, going progressively up to 6% above 1 billion (Warren) or 8% above 10 billion (Bernie). That means your tax rate is still leaving room for growth, just less growth than before. Whether you are entitled to have your money grow without effort is almost a philosophical matter.
You could of course believe in conspiracy and say that they are secretly planning to disown everybody and nationalize wealth. But it’s more realistic that they will have to compromise with the other branches of power on what they can do and if there ever will be a wealth tax, it will be much more limited.
Anon
That’s wealth tax. What can you tell me about his income tax plan? Warren has promised not to raise them. Bernie has only said (as far as I know) they he won’t raise them if you make <$50k. I imagine most of us here make between $50k and $32M.
Angela
I mean, his policies won’t bankrupt us bc they will not pass a Republican Senate. So it comes down to what kind of person do you think should be President of this country.
anon
Anon@1:11, Bernie’s income tax plan proposes no change if you make less than a quarter of a million dollars per year. Right now, the progressive tax rate tops out at 500k at 37%. His plan introduces more tiers for the higher income brackets, arguing that whether you make 500k or 10 times that, it should make a difference in what your marginal tax rate is. If you google for it, there is a calculator where you can figure out what exactly would change for your situation.
anon
I’m the anon that keeps explaining Bernie/Warren tax plans :D FWIW, I would be happy with a lot of the candidates, and definitely am not a Bernie-fan. I just think their specific plans are not that radical once you look at them in more detail. US politics is quick at throwing around the word socialism, but labels in my opinion are not useful, ever. Cuba-style socialism would never happen in the US, also Ivanka Trump calls herself a feminist, and I think she honestly means it, because she has a certain idea of feminism. Most political labels are way too much of a shorthand to be of use. If you talk to people about specific policy ideas, you can find much more common ground.
PolyD
The other thing to remember is that even though Trump acts like a dictator and is enabled by McConnell to do so, that’s not how US government work. There’s no way, even if elected, Bernie or Warren (and I don’t much care for Bernie, to be honest), can be all, A ha! Free college and health care for everyone! Make it so!!! and boom – we have those things.
Honestly, I’m voting for a tourniquet – whoever can stanch the bleeding of the US inflicted by Trump and his minions. I don’t expect much to get done, except maybe racist travel bans rescinded and children out of the cages. But that would be a good start.
Anon
I’ve been a Pete supporter since very early in his campaign, so we’re thrilled at my house :) I’ve even gotten my Trump-supporting mother to hush with the Trump propaganda for long enough to listen to him and concede that he seems likable and makes good sense. And if you know a Trump supporter, that’s a big win.
A 78 year old socialist cannot win nationally. Full stop. Especially when you consider how the electoral college favors red states. Bernie is not a winning candidate for purple voters in red states – conservative Dems. And those are the people we need to win the electoral college.
anon
Bernie is a social democrat, not a socialist. A Buttigieg nomination is a poor choice, as Pete is deeply unpopular with black voters.
Anon
So is Bernie. And you really think the people that put Trump in office are going to care about the nuance of Democratic Socialist vs Socialist.
Anon
Myth #1: Bernie is deeply unpopular with black voters.
pugsnbourbon
I’m not black but I’ve read that Bernie has pretty significant backing in the black community.
Anonymous
Why is he deeply unpopular with black voters? I don’t recall a big black population in his area of Indiana. He is a veteran (many black people are). Is it because he is gay? It’s not like there is a black candidate in the race anymore to be the preferred candidate. He may be unknown, but why would he be deeply unpopular (as compared to Biden, who seems to assume he has black support, even though he co-authored the crime bill, which has had a long and horrible tail (too many dads in prison)).
pugsnbourbon
From what I understand, there have been allegations that Pete knew of systemic racism within the South Bend police force and did nothing. There are additional accusations that he forced out the black police chief based on the pretense that the chief was under investigation for federal charges (he was not).
The Root did a very in-depth article on this: https://www.theroot.com/mayor-pete-s-invisible-black-police-1840727624
Anon
Yes, THIS. It’s so frustrating to me when people say Bernie is soooo electable…and they live in CA or MA or some other state that’s guaranteed to go blue. I live in a rust belt state, grew up in a farmland state, have lots of family in another rust belt state. Pete or Biden can win these states. Bernie absolutely cannot. There is a huge base here of moderate Dems, independents and ex-Rs who despise Trump and want to vote for a smart, kind human being who will keep economic progress strong. They won’t vote for a socialist.
anon
Yep, I live in the middle of the country and no way in he!! Bernie will win. Or Warren. Biden and Buttigieg would give us a fighting chance against the trumpsters.
Anonymous
Right?! Can you imagine the campaign ads? They’d have socialism all over them and you know he’d lose swing states. Also, it annoys me that Sanders isn’t even really a democrat. Dude was an independent for years and years until he decided to run for president. Why should the party support him? To me, Bernie is basically the left’s equivalent of Trump (albeit smarter than Trump, not that that’s a high bar). I mean, don’t get me wrong, if he’s the nominee, I’ll vote for him because anybody but Trump, I just really don’t like the guy.
Anon
And he became an independent again post-2016! Dude has NO USE for the Democratic Party unless he wants something from them. It’s unbelievably gross.
Anonymous
+ 1
Anon
Another thing I deplore about Bernie supporters is that they think that they can shame everyone into voting for him. That’s not how this works. I am more turned off by Bernie supporters than the man himself, and I don’t like him much at all.
Seventh Sister
Me too. The older I get, the less I enjoy people being condescending and trying to shame me into making a particular decision. “How can you possibly *not* support so-an-so?” is not a helpful way to make me do something. Also, I don’t have a lot of time, so I’m less and less willing to “get into it” with this type.
Anon
Preach. I can’t believe there are women here who are pro-Bernie, especially based on the antics of the “Bernie Bros” and the transparent misogyny that emerged during the 2016 campaign from them. I will vote for Bernie if he’s the nominee but I am doing everything in my power to make sure he’s not the nominee, including donating to and voting for his rivals.
In middle America where I live there’s enthusiasm for Mayor Pete but 80% of the Democrats I know are most enthusiastic about Bloomberg, who is my #1 choice. A Mayor Pete/Bloomberg ticket and we will win back the presidency, full stop. It won’t even be close. I am most disappointed about the Iowa results because we need people like Klobuchar to drop out of the race and now she won’t, because the results aren’t very clear. I can’t wait for the first primary where Bloomberg is on the ticket. I think it will become clear pretty quick who most of the country outside of California and New York has the appetite to elect. Spoiler alert, it isn’t Bernie or Elizabeth Warren. And unfortunately for the East and West Coast socialists on this board, there are still more of us Middle Americans than there are of you.
Seventh Sister
Anytime I take any online quiz, I find that I actually wind up pretty close to agreeing with Bernie’s policy positions, though I find his speeches and many of his supporters to be irritating (I’ve had more than one assume that my middle-aged Talbots-wearing self is a conservative – lol nope).
While I’d like to live in a country with national health care and a social safety net where the majority of politicians believe in climate change *and* evolution *and* strict gun control, I’m an American. And as the great artist Jenny Holzer would say, abuse of power comes as no surprise. I just have to keep hoping, corny as that sounds.
Anon
I’d be very into a Buttigieg/Klobuchar ticket.
Anon
I don’t dislike Pete, but it’s kind of weird that a 60 year old longtime senator would serve as the assistant to a 30-something man whose only political experience is being the mayor of a small city. Just drives home the point that women have to be twice as good to get half as far.
Anon
I totally agree. But if he’s going to win the primaries this is my pragmatic best choice.
I am a never Bernie.
Anon
If you’re a never Bernie, then you’re for Trump. Gross.
Anon
And I think you’re gross. Moderate voters exist, and in fact outnumber you. That’s reality, which those in the Bernie camp have a really hard time accepting.
Anon
I think never-[insert any Dem candidate here] in swing states are, in essence, Trump voters. My state is reliably blue so I’m safe to pick and choose as far as presidential candidates go – but if a diehard Bernie stan in PA refuses to vote for Pete or Biden in the general, or strident Biden supporter refuses to vote for Bernie in Michigan, that scares me. My biggest fear of another Trump presidency (in addition to the obvious) is the federal judiciary. That’s a problem that needs to be stopped ASAP – not just at SCOTUS (though RBG isn’t going to live forever), but for the appellate and district court level.
anon
I am close to a never Bernie (except that I will vote for whoever is the D nominee — not an Independent, not staying home) begging you to acknowledge that it’s either the D nominee or Trump again & act accordingly. If Trump again is ok with you in that scenario, then I don’t care if you call yourself a moderate, you’re for Trump.
anonchicago
It’s so true! This NYT article on the topic was hilarious: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/18/us/politics/pete-buttigieg-political-experience.html
They interviewed women in city government in the same age range who have actually gone through struggles (not I took a pay cut to leave McKinsey) and it just makes Pete look ridiculous.
I’m voting for Klobuchar if she’s still in the race when it’s time for me to vote. That said, would prefer Pete 1000x over Bernie or Warren because he actually has a shot at winning.
Anonymous
From a pure marketing standpoint, that’s one mouthful of a ticket! Doesn’t roll off the tongue at ALL! Maybe “Pete ‘n’ Amy” :)
Anon
Pete n Amy is cute :)
The counter to the idea that she’s too experienced to be VP to a younger candidate is that VPs have a good shot at the presidency (poor Biden excepted for his many Biden reasons)…she could set herself up for the future.
Monday
Pete N Amy for red states, Buttichar for coastal elites.
anon
lol
Anon
That isn’t borne out by the evidence. Bernie would have won in 2016.
Anon
LOL. My husband and I joke that the only silver lining of Trump’s 2020 victory will be that the people saying “Bernie would have won in 2016!” will finally be silenced.
Anon
Let’s check back in the fall. I think Trump will win and the only slim chance that he won’t is if Bernie is the nominee.
Anon
I agree with 11:16. Trump will win no matter what. The economy is good. The Democrats aren’t peeling off any Trump voters. Trump is up to 49% approval. Obama’s approval was 45% at this point in 2012. I’m not happy about this, but I can’t see the primaries as more than a sideshow, unfortunately.
Anonymous
But he didn’t. Because he couldn’t even manage to win the primary. This is a weird fantasy.
Anon
Don’t you know that his followers think the primary was stolen from him?
They also buy that he’s an “outsider” despite his 40+ year career as the very definition of an insider.
I don’t respect the smarts of die-hard Bernie supporters at all. But it doesn’t matter because very few of them will actually vote.
Anon
The polls that show that, weakly, are deeply flawed. The electoral process means just a few middle of the road voters in swing states decide the election. Middle of the road voters in moderate to conservative states are not going to go all the way to Bernie. They will just not vote for a socialist in the privacy of the voting booth.
Anon
Right. My anti-Trump-but-not-that-liberal parents in a Midwest swing state have *way* more say in who wins this election than all of you in Boston and SF. Sorry, but it’s true. Please for the love of all that is holy, listen to those of us who grew up in and live in these states and are telling you that Bernie cannot win here. The only people enthusiastic about Bernie in these areas are high school and college students and the data bears out that their support is often limited to rallies and social media and doesn’t extend to actually, you know, voting. They didn’t even turn out to vote for him in the Iowa caucuses, or he would have beaten Pete.
Truth
^ ^ ^ THIS ^ ^ ^
Anon
He’s winning the Iowa popular vote. That matters to me.
Anon
Winning the popular vote doesn’t count for anything, just ask Hillary…
Anon
He’s winning the popular vote based on winning in the cities from the maps I’ve seen. Most cities will vote Democrat anyway. I think the biggest indicators from Iowa are: (1) Pete is winning the rural/suburban areas where a Democrat will need to win in order to beat Trump (and this despite being gay), (2) Bernie is picking up very few voters compared to the others in the realignment, meaning he’s rarely anyone’s second choice – you’re either very pro-Bernie, or you’re not, (3) the conspiracy theories from the Bernie camp are insane – it’s like supporters can’t believe that he could actually lose in a state; he’s basically the other side of the Trump coin, (4) the turnout in Iowa was on par to 2016, not 2008, so there’s no great revolution/turnout for Bernie and (5) it says a lot that Trump and his supporters are more or less supporting Bernie; he wants to face him because with a strong economy, the swing states are not voting for a socialist.
I’m in a swing state in the midwest. I know a lot more never-Bernies than never-Trumpers.
Anon
Everything Anon at 1:06 says, especially #3. It’s scary how much Bernie supporters believe everything is rigged when they don’t get the results they don’t want. It doesn’t matter if it’s Hillary or Joe or Pete that’s beating them, they cry conspiracy and that only helps Trump. Bernie needs to shut it down fast and the fact that he isn’t making any effort to tells me a lot about his character and how he cares more about being President himself than stoping DJT.
PolyD
Unless you are a time-traveler, returned from an alternate 2016 reality in which Bernie was the nominee and beat Trump, you can’t blithely say, “Oh, Bernie would have won in 2016.”
You have no idea. You have no evidence that Trump and the RNC wouldn’t have run huge numbers of ads calling out Bernie’s socialism and his visits to Russia/Soviet Union in his youth and made huge hay of that. And saying, well, polls showed…. is irrelevant. Bernie didn’t run against Trump, he was not the target of Republican negative campaign ads about his scary scary socialism. Comparing Hillary’s real candidacy to Bernie’s imaginary candidacy is not a real comparison.
He also wasn’t terribly popular with nonwhites (as his losses in southern primaries showed), so can we please end this BS Bernie-would-have-won business?
Anon
https://www.vox.com/2019/3/7/18216899/bernie-sanders-bro-base-polling-2020-president
Walnut
Truth.
Anon
So is no one going to call out the obvious? Just as many people are saying Warren may not get the nomination because she’s a woman, it’s even worse for Pete. There is no way a gay man with a husband will win against Trump. Even somewhat progressive middle of the roaders can have a heavy homophobic slant more than a sexist slant. We’re not there yet as a country.
Anon
I don’t know. My dad is someone I would describe as homophobic-ish when I was growing up. He’s not religious and he would probably have told you he had nothing against gay people, but he did – there was just a level of comfort with it that wasn’t there, probably in large part because he didn’t really know any gay people. He didn’t support the courts ruling in favor of marriage equality – he said it was because he thought it should be up to the people, not the courts, but I don’t think he would have voted in favor of it if it had been a public ballot question. It hasn’t even been five years since Obergefell and his comfort level with it has changed so much. He’s really enthusiastic about Pete, to the point that he caucused in Iowa for Pete on Monday (and yes, he’s well aware Pete has a husband).
There’s been a stunning amount of progress on this in just the last ~10 years. It’s far eclipsed the rate of progress for African-Americans and women, imo.
Seventh Sister
My parents are Trump supporters, so grain of salt, but I think that so much of their homophobia is from their boomer-era ideas about what gays and lesbians are like. Pete and Chasten are *exactly* the kind of church friends or neighbors my parents would want – married, responsible dog owners, slightly dorky, willing to help out with the neighborhood block party (I assume). I can barely talk to them about politics, but their only objection to Pete is the same as my (very very liberal) husband’s objection – lack of experience.
As for me, I like some Democratic nominees better than others, but mostly I’m like Cotton Hill on King of the Hill, shouting in the kitchen that I want someone to make me some toast, “don’t care who, do care sourdough.” Just get a nominee and get cracking.
Anon
Smiles for the King of the Hill reference :)
Anonymous
I agree with this. My dad’s close friend is a deeply religious catholic, a Republican, and an 70 year old country club guy who still calls me “kiddo.” When a lesbian couple moved in next door fiver years ago he was so uncomfortable that couldn’t even explain that they were a same sex couple. He kept calling them “lesbetyrians.” But they are kind and fun and invited him and his wife over for drinks. Long story short, they are best friends. He’ll still vote for trump though,but not because Pete’s gay.
Seventh Sister
^This is 100% what my parents would be like if they had lesbian neighbors.
Anonymous
This. I get yelled at all the time here but living in Virginia (so blue but not necessarily reliably blue like NY or Mass) — no way am I voting for any one with any socialist leanings because I have no desire to pay more taxes so others can go to college for free or not pay off loans or whatever when I met my own obligations (and yes college cost 50-60k/yr when I went as did law school so I’m not someone who went to school when it cost 5k/yr). Not do I want anything to do with government healthcare – I mean look at how govt agencies are run; I think it should be an option but that’s it. Nor will I ever consider voting for a man with a husband. Yes I’m more ok with DJT’s cheating on 5 wives or whatever. So unless Biden or Bloomberg can pull a rabbit out of the hat — and I’m genuinely excited about Mike having lived in NYC most of the time he was mayor — I guess 4 more years. The last 3 haven’t been bad, so we’ll survive another term. (No I’m not losing sleep about judges or who is not supposed to be in the country and this residing in a cage because it doesn’t affect my day to day.)
Anon
You know you can register as a Republican, right? Your…views will find a home there. You don’t need to keep coming back to tr011 us.
Anonymous
Yet you can’t accept that there are people who vote Dem who care about the economy and their own finances more than immigration issues? You realize that’s what cost you in 2016 right? It’s like you think every Dem is a NYC or SF Dem and the rest do not matter because [gasp] they care about themselves so they must be Republican. You realize that’s what cost you the “normal” places like Mich, Wisconsin, PA etc right? Not everyone is going to be a – give everyone everything for free and let the whole world come in and take “free” services even if it costs me $$$ – NYC or SF Dem.
Anonymous
Honestly, I think that Pete’s having a husband makes him more conservative-appealing — he is a married guy, just like you. Not out cruising clubs, or whatever people’s horror vision is. And a veteran. My southern ROTC-participant dad would vote for him over many others in the race, and he’s not exactly flying the rainbow flag.
anon
“Nor will I ever consider voting for a man with a husband. Yes I’m more ok with DJT’s cheating on 5 wives or whatever.”
Why? I’m curious as to how you decide what manifestations of immorality you’re okay with. PS – you get yelled at all the time here because you’re a myopic, close-minded, immoral, selfish person, and you’re condescending about it. Every time I see a post with an over use of em dashes, “etc” and other abbrieves., parentheticals, “$$$,” and the phrase “or whatever,” I cringe.
Anonymous
I think that the counter to that is that he is the only veteran in the race and when all candidates are problematic, it’s less of a stumbling block. He doesn’t set off the sprinklers and most people by now know someone who is gay (even if they are later-in-life coming to terms with being gay, which I feel like happens all the time in smaller towns — the gay guys are divorced from women and often have kids). He’s not Elton John (and compared to this crowd, Elton John could be electable).
Anon
This. Pete doesn’t fit negative gay stereotypes, just like Obama didn’t fit negative Black stereotypes. Our county is racist and homophobic for sure, but both Obama and Pete fit into a straight white man’s version of what a president should be, and that goes a long way.
Anon
I truly cannot understand the “never Bernie” people when I would vote for a flaming sack of dog sh*t over Trump. I guess some of us Democrats care about not reelecting Trump more than others.
Anonymous
Shockingly some of us think times are good and the bad things aren’t worth rocking the boat over. How was the private payroll number this morning? 291k new jobs created in January – yeah I’ll take it regardless of how crossed the border illegally and now lives in a cage.
Anon
Yes, we know YOU think that because you post about it nonstop. You can go away though.
anon
Hi, this conversation is for/about Democrats and therefore does not concern you.
DCR
I will hold my nose, and vote for Bernie if it comes to it in the general (not that it matters, I live in DC). But it will be the first person I’ve ever voted for who I didn’t actually want to get the job. Nor do I think that Bernie can do anything to heal the divide in this country, he will just make it worse. He is just another angry yelling narcissistic white man; it’s another Trump with different policy positions.
anon
I hear ya — selecting Hillary in 2016 was the first time I ever felt ashamed of my vote. But I did it anyway and tbh would vote for a ham sandwich at this point.
Anon
YES. Someone mentioned it above, but the NYT endorsement interview had quotes in it that could have come verbatim from Trump, if Trump had a slightly better vocabulary. It was all “waaa the NYT is so mean to me, you give me such unfair coverage” and when asked how he would get anything through a Mitch McConnell Senate, his response was along the lines of “I don’t have to try to work across the aisle because my people love me, so I’ll just fly around the country having rallies and basking in the adoration of my base.”
He is, without a doubt, the Trump of the left.
anon
The only people I have heard in real life life threatening not to vote are Bernie people threatening not to vote if the Dem nominee isn’t Bernie. I’ll hold my nose and vote for Bernie or Pete come November if that is who is on the ballot; I don’t know that I can trust Bernie’s supporters do be responsible and so the same
Ellen
I do not think the country is ready for Pete. Dad calls him Beetlejuice, but I know it is not his last name. I will NOT vote for anyone I do not like regardless of his s-xueal prefice.
LittleBigLaw
Random topic inspired in part by yesterday’s commentor who was recommending slips (I love them, too!). what “old-fashioned“ beauty or fashion techniques have you embraced or learn to love again? I recently admitted to myself that I will never be good with a curling iron or flat iron, and have gone back to my trusted hot roller set with really good results. I also recently found a great pair of pantyhose that actually works with my skin tone and makes my legs look great that I now wear all the time. Both of these things have made me feel much more polished and put together, but I can’t help but giggle at the retro vibe i’ve got going on lately. Anyone else finding the old ways can still be great?
LaurenB
My aunt and grandmother used Ponds Cold Cream every night, and honestly they had awesome skin.
Anon
My 96 year old grandmother still uses the pink Olay lotion and she has beautiful skin. I’m bummed that my skin really dislikes it.
Bars of Dove soap feel a bit retro in an age of fancy body washes. (There’s a peony scent in purple packaging that’s heavenly, though it’s a bit hard to find.) And using said soap bar with a regular ol’ washcloth – the original exfoliator :)
Carrie
+1
Yup – I started washing my face with Ponds cold cream after reading about it on this site.
HW
Love this question. Not sure if it counts as retro, but I use pressed powder instead of liquid foundation, bb cream, or whatever else people use to improve their skin tone. I literally powder my nose a couple of times a day.
anon
my Southern belle aunt used to sell Mary Kay for many years and followed their routine/products for years. She is in her 70s and has lovely skin.
Ribena
I’m a huge fan of skin coloured tights (as I think we call pantyhose here) – so much cooler and more comfortable than bare skin.
Fairly retro, at least here in the UK – I have a filter coffee machine rather than a Nespresso or similar. It makes coffee the way I like it with zero waste and much more cheaply than a pod machine. Triple-win as far as I’m concerned.
Vicky Austin
Team hose/tights forever, I don’t care if it makes me an old lady.
I am also a user of the pink Olay lotion and I love it.
Z
Love my Mr Coffee.
JB
Wow. Would never consider trip coffee to be retro. Standard in the US. Those pod machines should be banned.
anon
I’m curious which pantyhose you like because I’ve seriously considered going that direction. I feel really unpolished with bare legs (not that I’d be doing that this time of year anyway) and cannot find a pair of tights that I like. At least hose come in more shapes and sizes?
I really can’t think of any retro beauty tricks that I’m rocking these days. My hair is short but I’m not getting a perm + roller set or anything. LOL.
Celia
I like Talbots nylons. Decent range of colors and weights. I usually size up even if I’m not in the “borderline” area, to avoid laddering when I put them on or sit down.
Vicky Austin
I’ve found this too! Something about Talbots in particular.
I’ve also had good luck with Hue for sheers.
January
Ooh, me too! (Even agree with sizing up!)
LittleBigLaw
I really like the Hanes Perfect Nudes. They’re very sheer and feel very comfortable/aren’t scratchy. They’re delicate (i.e., don’t last long for me) but I’m tough on hose generally so YMMV.
Anon
I will forever use bar soap below the neck. Body wash is froo-froo nonsense that just puts perfume over top of the BO, instead of washing it away.
Anonymous
Same. You can pry my Lever 2000 from my cold dead hands.
Anon
I wash my face with bar soap. I’m not convinced that fancy face washes do anything – you wash them off and they’re on your skin for like five seconds. A washcloth and soap work fine. Also over body wash in general, it’s extra stuff to buy and more expensive and wasteful and takes up more space. There’s something appealing about being into that stuff, I totally get it, but most of us don’t have extra special sensitive skin that needs a particular brand of soap. Not saying to wash yourself with borax or anything but your standard Dove or whatever is fine.
anon
You’re lucky that you can get away with that.
Anon
Yeah, that wouldn’t work for my skin at all. But I just use Cetaphil, which certainly isn’t fancy.
Anon
Maybe, but our grandmothers did and they looked perfectly fine. Has an entire generation’s skin really changed so much?
Anon
I’m sorry, what? How do you know how your grandmother’s skin looked and felt when she was your age? Soap dries out my face and I don’t like the way it feels. Soap probably dried out my grandma’s face too, but she didn’t have an alternative.
granny
My grandmother was born in 1901, so presumably did use soap to wash her face when she was young. She switched to cold cream by the 1960s though because she liked it more.
June
A lot of these have already been mentioned:
-Pond’s cold cream to remove makeup at night
-use a good ol’ washcloth to exfoliate
-skirt suits and nude pantyhose. I don’t even own a pant suit and wouldn’t wear black tights to court or an important meeting.
-I perm my hair
-I stopped wearing funky colored nail polish in favor of pinks, reds, berries (maybe this is just an age thing?)
-if I wear lipstick, its red, berry, deep rose or coral – even with a smokey eye.
-if i wear lipstick, I wear lipliner (also probably an aging thing)
-I love bold yellow gold jewelry and wear at least 1 piece daily (70s/80s vibe)
-I follow seasonal color analysis and Kibbe typing rules
When I need to lose a few pounds I adopt the Dr. Stillman, Jackie Kennedy, or crazy Vogue diet. Stillman diet only allowed hard boiled eggs, cottage cheese and meat (I think this came out in the 60s). Jackie Kennedy’s typical diet was 1 hard boiled egg for breakfast, cottage cheese and fruit for lunch, and meat w/ salad or veggie for dinner. Crazy vogue diet was 3 eggs, steak and bottle of wine a day. I’ll also have a retro diner lunch plate consisting of cottage cheese and plain small burger patty.
anon
June, I got a kick out of your list – you are very retro, especially the dieting thing – that is old school.
LittleBigLaw
Oh, man! I remember my mom getting color typed by the local Beauty Control consultant! Autumn forever!
pugsnbourbon
Holy moly, you’ve done the Vogue diet and lived to tell the tale?
Anon
Googled that Vogue diet and may still be dying laughing. Great post!!!
Jules
Is your last name Cleaver?
Sallyagogo
Book recommendations sought – looking for guidance in letting go of control c and building self esteem. Any book recommendations?
Anon
https://www.amazon.com/Six-Pillars-Self-Esteem-Definitive-Leading/dp/0553374397
Katie
This calls for Brene Brown! “The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You’re Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are”.
Mallory
Second Brene’ Brown…and this particular book mentioned above it a good ‘starter’ book of hers, as it’s shorter! :)
Anonymous
Recommendations for places to stay in/near San Diego? We want to easily be able to go for walks on the beach and have access to good (foodie) food.
SMC-San Diego
This is a pretty broad request and there are a lot of variables but off the top of my head:
(1) Coronado. Beautiful beaches. Some good food (although not the best); easy ferry access to downtown which has better food.
(2) La Jolla. Same but more “city” and better shopping. Also, La Jolla cove’s beach is beautiful but not long.
(3) North San Diego county (Del Mar, Solana Beach). Pretty far out of the city proper (during rush hour) but very pretty.
I am leaving out Pacific Beach/Mission Beach because they are more beach-party vibe but maybe that is what you are looking for?
If you let us know when you are visiting, how many people (kids?), and more specifics, we might be able to give more information
Chicago Weather Help!
I’m going to Chicago at the end of February to a conference of non-profit leadership. The conference organizer said the attire was “business casual”. And recs for what this means in Chicago specifically/ how to dress in the weather? I am from a warm southern state. My normal go-to in the winter for business casual is a pencil skirt with tights, some sort of non-button up top, and a cardigan, but I have a feeling that even with a coat on this will not be warm enough. Do people wear two pairs of tights at once? Just wear black leggings underneath skirts? I was thinking of maybe switching out the cardigan for a blazer.
Also-any downtown food recs? I am extending my trip by about a day and a half. I have done most of the Chicago attractions recently, but plan on going to the Art Institute and Chicago History Museum.
Ribena
If the cardigan has wool content and you wear boots when outside, that will go a long way to being warm enough.
TrixieRuby
I live in Boston, so not Chicago, but the weather is is similar. Consider wearing low heeled booties or riding boots with your tights. Think about a merino wool or cashmere sweater on top, with your cardigan or blazer. Wear a coat, but be sure to bring a hat, gloves/mittens, and a scarf to be warm enough. If it is super cold, a wool coat might not be warm enough, but if that is what your own, then grab a taxi or uber. Don’t wear two tights–won’t work. I suspect lots of people will be in pants, which are warmer–this could work for you, and you can add lightweight long underwear underneath. A non profit conference will be casual, I am sure many people will dress up jeans with a turtle neck and a blazer–go for that if you like the idea. Enjoy!
Anon
February can be all over the place in Chicago, depends on if we get a cold front, extra high wind, etc. So, what you wear depends partly on your tolerance for cold, how long you will actually be outside, etc. I’d generally be fine in tights and skirt with a coat. I tend to wear long sleeve blouse or sweater with a coat, no cardigan or blazer. I find it annoying to put a coat on over a blazer, but that’s just personal preference.
anonchicago
I wear knee high boots with a dress or skirt pretty often along with a down coat, though this winter has been milder so I’m just wearing my wool coat. In Chicago, the wool coat is usually the fall/spring coat but it’s used for winter elsewhere!
If you’re mostly at a conference and Ubering around, any kind of coat will be fine for the 5 minutes a day spent outside.
Chi
Knee high boots with skirts/dresses are pretty common in Chicago in the winter, even if booties are trendier. There’s a high tolerance here for dressing warm over dressing trendy, especially when it comes to footwear. I personally wear ponte pants (like Loft Julie), a blazer, and booties most days to my law office. A blazer under a wool coat will be as warm as a down coat. If I had to pack, I’d bring a black/grey/navy blazer to wear with pants on one day and with a skirt on another day.
If you’ve done the other common attractions, have you considered the American Writers Museum downtown, tickets to Wait, Wait Don’t Tell Me, or a comedy show?
Anonymous
I work in non-profit arts, so that may be skewing my perspective, but I would expect you could go a little more casual if you wanted – jeans+blazer. I’m in NYC and avoid wearing skirts in the winter. When I went to a conference last summer the hotel was FREEZING so I wore a lot of pants (like chinos or casual trousers) + top + sweater blazer when I was inside.
LaurenB
You’re going to be indoors for the most part. You don’t need 2 pairs of tights. Whatever you’d wear in NY or Boston will be just fine. Chicago isn’t really that different IMO.
Anon
Any tips for “winning” a foreclosed house? It’s bank-owned and all offers have to be in by 6 pm Sunday night. I have no idea how many other offers there will be or how high above asking others will go.
It’s listed for $68k. The bank’s deed for it is $98,750. It last sold in 2006 for $98k. Comps, condition, and tax assessment put it at about $80k. In the price history, Zillow says it was on Auction.com for $77k for two weeks in November – does anyone know what that’s about? (I know Zestimates are nonsense – I just don’t know how Auction.com fits into this house’s price history.)
Obviously from prices above, it’s in a very rural area, so it’s not like there will be tons of competition, but I expect there to be some. I do not expect there to be any all-cash offers (and if there are, I’m out anyways). I don’t NEED the house, so it’s not a must-win, but it would be a nice get.
Anon
I used to work in a foreclosure division of a bank on the commercial side, though we interfaced with resi from time to time. I’m not a resi pro but many of the same principals apply. Here are my best guesses:
1. Due diligence/property condition: There is a physical real estate reason the home is worth less. Is there anything noted in the disclosures? Did the bank provide any third party reports – namely an inspection report? We used to self-commission the inspection reports so the foreclosure/disposition process went more quickly. As a buyer, I’d always advise you to get your own but the bank reports, at least in our case, were always reliable. We never deliberately hid anything – way too complicated, unethical and risky to pull that.
2. A loan write down – the face value of the mortgage does not mean that’s the current mortgage balance at the bank that the bank is trying to clear/recover via a sale. In the time leading up to the foreclosure a bank often writes down/off a portion of the outstanding loan balance (aka bank accepts that they are likely to not recover their mortgage amount so they cut their losses and write off a portion of the debt as unrecoverable), in part for accounting reasons and in part to essentially accept/admit the mortgage holder is likely only able to repay part of the outstanding loan balance. It may be that the loan has simply been written down to the $68k level and that’s the number they need to clear in order to recover what they consider their current outstanding debt on the asset to be.
3. Possibly most likely, it’s a way to get a lot of offers and create excitement and competition. In my current role we use auction.com on the commercial side. I’d put the most stock in this reason to create a frenzy and hopeful bidding war.
Good luck. It can be a great path to a deal if you can stomach the process.
Anon
Oh I think I read too quickly. If it was listed for $77k on auction.com (a platform banks will use to dispose of assets, so that in and of itself is not odd) it’s very likely it didn’t trade, so now they’re reducing the price and trying again.
Anon
Thanks so much for taking the time to write out such an informative reply!
My showing’s Friday, so I expect I’ll get the disclosures then and I’ll definitely keep a keen eye out for physical problems – it’s a house from 1940, so there are bound to be some concerns. The agent on the phone said something about, “It’s very livable as is – it just needs about $5k put into it.” “Livable” and “somewhere I want my mother to live” are two different things, but we’ll see ;)
With the work it needs to be pretty again, I’m willing to pay up to $85k, but my husband would prefer we don’t spend that much. I’ll feel it out when I get there. The county tax assessments are usually pretty accurate, if not a touch high, and that’s at $82,400.
Thanks again for your reply :)
Anon
No problem at all! My gut is you’d be over paying based on what the bank needs to clear. We rarely listed for much more than we needed to clear. We weren’t trying to make a profit, just get them off our books at a defendable “fair market value.” But, I also know that you need to be competitive and if multiple offers show up then you want to be the highest.
Do some digging and see if your realtor or the showing agent can give you more info about November. Maybe an innocuous “Was this listed in November?” or something like that will get you some more info. Maybe a local agent has more info on what happened if the selling agent doesn’t disclose. If it was legitimately listed in November for $77k I don’t know why it would sell for more in Feb (not like you’re in the heat of a spring/summer market now).
nuqotw
Figure out how much it’s worth to you. Are you going to live there? If so, how much does it cost to maintain the place and what is the value you receive (i.e. how much would it cost you to rent it if someone else bought it) from living there? Are you going to rent it out? If so, how much money do you expect to clear doing so?
Then, bid somewhat less than whatever number you come up with above, so that you have a cushion. Your cushion should depend on your own comfort level. Then if you win, you made money. If you lose, you should be glad because you couldn’t make enough money for it to be worth it to you.
Anon
Thanks. Yeah, it’s a bit difficult because it’s for my mother :) She has a modest pension and she’ll be “renting” it from us, so it’s not a purely economic decision. I feel like an investor/flipper would have an easier time of this :) I’m weighing this against what other homes might come up on the market in the next ~18 months (crystal ball, I don’t have) and whether they’d be a better fit for her, and not my personal profit and loss.
Anon
Why has this been in moderation for half an hour?
Anon
And now 90 minutes. Seriously.
Anonymous
If it didn’t go through the auction site, then you know you don’t have to pay $77K. Figure out what you’re comfortable with below that and offer it. The bank’s already lost money on it. They just want it off their books.
Anon
If your agent uses showing time, she can probably see how many other showings are booked to get an idea of the traffic/competition.
hot rollers
Inspired by the retro beauty tips question above. For those of you that use hot rollers- do you have any recommendations? I do not have the patience or skill for curling/flat irons. Shoulder length somewhat fine hair.
anonymous
I have a set from Conair that I’ve been using for years. I think maybe they are 3/4 or an inch in diameter?
Housecounsel
I like Conair Big Curls because I am going more for volume and smoothness, not curls.
hot roller recs
The differentiating factors between hot rollers are (1) the diameter of the rollers, (2) how quickly they heat up, and (3) how many come in a pack.
I highly recommend the T3 rollers. They come in a pack of 8 and contain 4 1 3/4″ rollers and 4 1 1/2″ rollers. This achieves a ton of volume, and wide, sweeping, glamorous waves–but not much of a curl. They travel exceptionally well, heat up quickly, and I perceive them to be less damaging on my hair than other rollers. Watch a video tutorial to see if you like the style that you can achieve with them before purchasing.
If that style isn’t your thing, you might want to find rollers with smaller diameters. Conair has a lot of options, but I’ve found them to heat up more slowly and generally be of worse quality
In-House in Houston
I use hot rollers everyday. I have shoulder length hair, that’s on the fine side. Over the years I’ve found it’s easier, faster and my hair looks better if I use the hot rollers while I put my make-up on and get dressed, then I take out the rollers and give my hair a quick brush.
LittleBigLaw
This is me, too. I’ve just got a standard, cheap set of rollers from Target, and I roll my entire head before putting on my makeup. If I want more curl, I leave them in on my drive in to work (I take them out before I get there!)
Seventh Sister
On the more expensive side, but I have a set of Babyliss rollers and I love them. Don’t use them every day but certainly could if I would get myself up early enough to put them in my hair. I got a bum set of Conair rollers (after having a Conair set that worked great for years and years), so I upgraded to see if the good ones really worked.
The original Scarlett
Just a PSA that the jeans I love for work (actual good trouser flares) are on sale at banana (link to follow)
The original Scarlett
https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=493459002&pcid=999&vid=1#pdp-page-content
anon
I’m feeling very discouraged about the presidential race. I cannot stand anything that Trump stands for and want him out of office, but I’m also fairly convinced he’s gonna get re-elected because the Democratic field is weak. I personally like Buttigieg because he’s a moderate, but this country is so extreme on both ends that I can’t see him winning the nomination. Warren and Sanders — if it’s between one of them and Trump, even the Republicans who are unhappy with Trump just won’t be willing to go there. I don’t see Klobuchar staying in the race much longer unless she’s somebody’s choice for VP.
Yeah. Just really discouraged and have no idea how to stomach election talk for the next nine months. Even listening to NPR this morning made me anxious.
Anonymous
I agree. It pains me so much, but I’m also convinced he is going to be re-elected. I think Warren or Sanders will get the nomination and I do not think either of them can win.
Ducky
My feelings exactly.
Anon
Even if Dems had the most inspiring, electable candidates in the world, it would be a huge uphill battle. It’s really hard to beat an incumbent when the economy is strong. It might be weird but I take some comfort in that – it’s not that the candidates or primary voters are failing us, it’s just that this is nearly impossible task.
ElisaR
i’m with you! frustrating
ElisaR
i’m with you! frustrating
LaurenB
I’m a Buttigieg (and Klobuchar) fan. I’ll vote for any Dem to get Trump out, but sadly I think a lot of Dems play the “purist game” (moderates won’t vote for progressives and vice versa).
Anon
I’ve stopped listening to NPR and only look at NYT headlines every few days. Otherwise it’s too depressing.
Seeking pre nup rec
does anyone have a recommendation for a reasonable attorney who can do a straightforward prenup? NYC.
Artemis
Cross-posted from mom site:
I have a ridiculous “fashion” question. A few years ago, Target sold what I’ll call “novelty” underwear for women–cotton/stretch briefs and bikinis with Star Wars, Harry Potter, DC/Marvel characters, Disney characters, etc. I bought tons of them because they were comfy, not granny panties, inexpensive, and they were fun! Everyone else in my house has fun underwear, why not me!
Ever since Target re-branded all of their clothing lines, I cannot find this underwear in any of my local stores or on the Target website, I cannot find them on Amazon (which trends towards expensive/sexy/cosplay versions), and I cannot find them in various other places I thought to look.
Anyone else know where to find these? All my old pairs are wearing out, and I just want to face the day with Wonder Woman backing me up in secret, you know?
Anonymous
Check the juniors dept at department stores if that sizing would suit you. jcpennys has some marvel boyshorts there for example.
Anon
Try Tomboy X brand.
Anonymous
Sometimes MeUndies has these!