Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Newville Cotton T-Shirt

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1. As you look down the road to whatever life looks like once the pandemic ends, what are your thoughts about mask wearing then? I have heard many people say they think they’ll keep wearing a mask when in crowded public spaces because it helps keep them from getting sick. I agree that not getting sick in 2020 was really nice.
   However, over the last several years, I’ve read numerous articles theorizing the rise in autoimmune disorders may be connected to our pretty clean and germ free life. The idea being that our immune systems have nothing to do so they start attacking our bodies. I don’t know if this is an accurate theory (and I’m a lawyer, not a scientist of any kind), but it makes some sense. And I wonder if continuing to wear masks when not sick may make exacerbate this problem (if germ free life and autoimmune disorders are actually connected).
   Thoughts? If anyone has good research on these ideas, please share.

   1. Quarantine has not affected my level of sickness at all. My problem has always been stubborn bacterial sinus infections brought on by allergies, so exposure to other people isn’t really a factor. I’m the same amount of sick I’ve always been, mask or no mask.

      That said, I do think wearing a mask will be easier than convincing people that I’m not contagious (the usual hand-waving and “Just allergies” comment I’ve perfected over many years), and I will probably do it.

      1. I have wondered this. I have allergies and chronic sinus problems. I feel like I should get a tattoo or something that officially notes (especially now) that. Maybe just wearing a mask is easier? OTOH, cannot wait for my mask burning party.

      2. Same here. I still got my annual sinus infection in mid-November, same as every other year.

      3. Sounds like you need a better ENT! (Not saying this to be a jerk: getting a better ENT changed my life, and I wish I’d done it sooner.)

         1. Okay, +1 to this. A family member had literally suffered for DECADES and was looking at giving up a (beloved) pet and basically giving up all upholstery in their home. Regular bacterial sinus infections made life miserable.

            A good ENT changed their life.

      4. Is there a mask that has “ITS JUST ALLERGIES” across the front? :D

         1. OMG there should be! I bet you can commission one.

         2. Hopefully with an apostrophe in “IT’S”! Sorry, couldn’t help myself.

      5. Same – I just have bad allergies (and live in an area where that is common), so quarantine hasn’t changed my level of dealing with that. Other than allergies, I am almost never sick – I can’t even remember the last time I was sick with anything contagious.

         As for the masks, I can’t wait to stop wearing them. I live in an area that is hot and very humid the vast majority of the year and I hate having to wear a mask on top of all that. My face feels like a swamp!

   2. Scientists actually don’t know what causes autoimmune disorders. There are only theories. I’m saying this not as a scientist or doctor but as a person with an autoimmune disease. My doctor says my particular disease is theorized to be triggered by having an infection at some point that triggers the autoimmune response. For me, I battled an infectious disease in 2013. In 2015, I became symptomatic of my autoimmune disease. Again, only theories.

      As for masking after the pandemic, I’ll probably do it when I fly, that’s it.

   3. I hope it becomes the polite norm to wear a mask in public if you’re feeling sniffly / have a cold. But beyond that, I don’t think I’ll wear a mask unless it’s a recommended health precaution.

      1. +1 My understanding is that this is quite common practice in other countries. It’s a habit I’ll adopt when I’m feeling under the weather (especially with any kind of cough/sneeze), but need to go to the pharmacy or grocery store.

         1. In the before times, it was pretty common to see customers wearing surgical masks at the Asian grocery store near my house, especially during flu season.

      2. Yes definitely. Alongside working from home when we are ill. Definitely looking back on a period in autumn 2019 in which I was really ill and still dragging myself to the office and cringe.

      3. Yeah, I think this is what I’ll end up doing, in addition to probably still having to wear them at work for a while (healthcare).

      4. Shouldn’t the norm become to stay the F home if you have a cold? Not to mask up and go out? Not sure I want to encourage the “just put a mask on and get on about your day.”

         1. Yeah, but sometimes you still need to go out – to the pharmacy or the grocery store, or you have a pre booked flight or train. It’s about opting out of the negotiables and then doing essential things more safely. You don’t need to self isolate for a cold

            1. The point is that how do you know it’s a cold? Especially now? I think the message should be a flight be damned — stay the eff home if you are sick.

            2. Yeah and that’s why public health is actually a thing people study. Because if the message is forever and always cancel everything and stay home if you have a cold, 12 people will do that. If you encourage staying home but if you need to go out, wear a mask, it’s more effective because more people will do it.

            3. I don’t mean ‘now’ – I mean ‘when everything is back to normal’, which was the premise of this question.

            4. I mean, I don’t think that coronaviruses, particularly this nasty one, are going away. This one is mutating. I think that when we are well beyond peak and #s have dropped, it will be a case of outbreaks and hotspots for a while still, after 99% of us have gone back to normal. Sort of like measles / formerly smallpox / now Polio are rearing up here and there.

               So a random sick person could be merely sick or the next big spreader.

            5. Whatever people are studying over in public health, their implementation at least in my country has been nothing short of a disaster. Either the field is a joke or the people promoted into positions of influence aren’t any good at what they do, which is its own problem.

            6. “The point is that how do you know it’s a cold? Especially now? I think the message should be a flight be damned — stay the eff home if you are sick.”
               That is an easy message to say on a message board, and I support the theory of it. But there are so many reasons (in non-COVID life!) it is just not practical. Airlines will not be able to afford letting people change around their flights same day or close to forever. And if you are a family of 4, and you booked a trip to ..Hawaii?, and one of your little ones wakes up with a minor cold? I’m sorry but I know very few people that would flush that $2K+ worth of plane tickets essentially down the drain (and at that point, probably a multi-thousand dollar non-cancellable hotel room, since even the most flexible of policies require at least a day or two notice) due to that minor cold. I can think of about 1,000 other reasons why flying with a cold will likely continue to happen post-COVID. Even though I understand that it’s frustrating and I wish there was a better way.
               (NOTE I DO think in a COVID world no one should fly with a minor cold, and that is part of the financial risk of booking something like that now at this stage).

         2. Agreed. This is how we got COVID in the first place. People who were “toughing it out” on the train got others sick and then it spread like wildfires.

            I will nonetheless wear a mask except in court and except in social situations b/c I need to look good, and with a mask I am just another average woman with a large tuchus, and I am not going to be able to win my cases or snag a good man like that. PTOOEY!

         3. There is no world in which large numbers of people will indefinitely continue to treat mild to moderate cold symptoms as a health emergency requiring staying home in semi-quarantine. People are willing to do that during the pandemic because it’s time-limited, but not long-term.

            1. There are already countries where people consider it only right to wear a mask while they’re the ones coughing and sneezing.

            2. Yes, but those are societies where commitment to the collective well-being is valued. Based on what we’ve seen over the past year, the United States is not one of those societies.

            3. Right – I lived in Hong Kong where that’s common – but the idea that you also should stay home if you have mild cold symptoms is not going to be a long term thing (and isn’t in countries where public masking is common).

            4. Yeah, I’ve always had a hard time understanding people who say that (during normal times). When I get a cold, it’s 1, maybe 2 weeks of general congestion, but I’m not really sick. I can’t see staying home for that as a rule.

            5. You’re arguing that people should mask up with a cold, which I agree with, while the person you’re responding to is unrealistically insisting everyone with a mild cold should stay home. One, that’s unrealistic because it’s just not going to happen, and two, it’s a very privileged point of view. In a normal year most of us can be sick with a cold or something like it for 2-3 total weeks a year. US employers don’t give that kind of sick time, and someone who used 2-3 weeks of sick time a year regularly would probably get sacked. Forget about hourly employees – they couldn’t afford it.

         4. Goodness that’s a place of privilege. A large part of this country works jobs with no sick days and can’t afford to stay home for every sniffle.

            1. Being able to work through sniffles is a privilege too though. Not everyone’s health is that robust.

            2. Oh good! The Privilege Olympics! Of course all of us typing on laptops/mobile devices (most of us on here are white collar / WFH of some sort) are privileged as well …

            3. It’s not “privilege Olympics” to point out that it’s insane to expect people to stay home when they have a cold if they don’t have paid sick time.

   4. I think most of the immunity benefits from germ exposure comes from childhood and maybe young adulthood. I’m in my 50s and I’ve already been exposed to a lot. As I’ve gotten older I’ve gotten fewer and fewer colds and viruses. Young children are generally wearing masks less often and less effectively than adults – they aren’t really shielded as much from germs. Additionally, there are other pathogens that aren’t avoided because they aren’t respiratory. Right now, my immune system not getting enough work isn’t my biggest concern.

      1. All of those pandemic puppies will be our good-germ vector, so I think we and kids will be fine :) Our dog, while delightful, is very dirty

   5. I will be wearing one on crowded public transport in winter or if I feel a bit sniffly, I think. Potentially also other busy public spaces?

   6. I think that this theory is being partly miscommunicated by journalists. Just talk to all the people with immune deficiencies who develop multiple autoimmune diseases after getting sick constantly!

      I think when they talk about “clean and germ free,” they aren’t talking about avoiding illness: they are talking more about inadvertently excluding beneficial bacteria or avoiding exposure to bacteria that are normal in a healthy outdoor ecosystem. They’re also talking about the use of antibiotics. This has almost nothing to do with viruses and doesn’t suggest that getting viruses is somehow good for anyone. Viruses are actually a pretty common trigger for autoimmune conditions.

      1. For example, one argument is that hospitals aren’t the best environment for childbirth because infants derive their internal bacterial ecosystem from the bacteria they are exposed to at birth. So there are arguments about what bacteria infants should be exposed to at birth. But that really doesn’t have anything to do with adults.

         I’m aware of the whole helminth therapy concept, but I believe and sincerely hope that it’s irrelevant to masking (I hope it’s impossible to get helminths just from breathing). I’m also not sure it’s really panning out.

      2. This poster is correct. I’m a microbiologist, and while this isn’t my specific area of expertise, it’s material I’ve taught in several classes, so I’m pretty up to date on the current scientific literature. This isn’t an issue for adults, but it may be of some concern for children. However, there’s really no plus to exposure to respiratory viruses (other than possibly gaining immunity) and there might be some real negatives, both in terms of post-viral effects and when a virus ends up leading to bacterial infections, like ear infections, that require antibiotics. It does seem fairly clear that it’s better not to have taken antibiotics as a baby, though it’s a little hard to determine whether that’s causation or correlation (maybe babies that get sick and need antibiotics are already predisposed to health problems). As long as kids still spend time playing in the dirt, are around animals, and constantly stick their hands in their mouths, they’ll probably be okay (I’d actually be more worried about constant hand sanitizer than masks, since it might have more of an effect on bacterial exposure).

         I think it would be much better if everyone just stayed home when they were sick, but when that’s not possible, wearing a mask is a good compromise.

         1. Thanks for this explanation. Very helpful.

         2. As a biochemist, I completely agree with your explanation.

            Constant sanitizing and exposure to disinfectants may be detrimental to children also because of exposure to harmful chemicals, development of skin sensitivities etc.

            I have never disinfected my kitchen counters with Lysol, and I handle raw meats, eggs and fish regularly. After handling such foods, I wipe counters and other surfaces like the sink or faucets with hot soapy water, and very very rarely use 70% alcohol.

            At the beginning of the pandemic we wiped door handles with Lysol wipes, but now I only do that if I had a repair person in the house touching things. I wiped my keys, phone and laptop keyboard with alcohol wipes every couple of days even pre-pandemic.

         3. Dad says you are right, and congratulations for being smart on this site! Dad says he let us play and dig in the same sandbox where our cats made poopie b/c we got immune from poopie born illnesses. If we live in a bubble, we are subject to every illness imaginable. So we live in a non-sterile environment and are healthier. Counterintutive yes, but true, Dad says. He thinks Grandma Trudy’s IBS is made worse by the fact that she never had pets in the house like we did and therefore her digestive system did not get immune from poopie born illnesses.

   7. I will continue to wear masks during cold and flu seasons. I’m not concerned about autoimmune diseases, but I have had one (!) cold in 12 months. And my kids have been in group care settings pretty much the whole time. In a normal year, I would have been sick probably half a dozen times.

   8. I’ll probably keep up with wearing a mask on public transit/airplanes. I have them, it’s an easy thing to do, and if it helps cut down on the random travel cooties so much the better. I always used to disinfect my airplane seat/tray table/armrests before this started and it did help a lot with the travel crud I used to pick up. I still always travel with a pretty decent sized selection of OTC meds, nothing like having to run to a local pharmacy when you’re sick and all you want to do is collapse into bed at night.

      1. + 1. The masks have reduced how many colds I have picked up. I am also planning on masking when the air quality is bad, instead of toughing it out. I think the time we have all spent in masks will make that seem like a less alarmist act.

   9. Never Home Alone is a good book to read on this.

      I have been wildly craving a Japanese-steakhouse meal (people around a table, chanting at the chopping, overload of salt and starches, other people) and am sort of sad that that whole experience is probably not going to happen for a while. It is like the only thing I want now. I may try for takeout and tears later, but I miss loud people together eating in the worst way.

      1. Aw, I feel this and the way you described it makes me want it, too (and this is not normally the type of meal I go out for!). Takeout and tears just isn’t the same.

         Hope you get to have your steakhouse meal with your favorite people when it’s safe to do so.

   10. Definitely on planes and in airports though maybe just putting it on at the gate, not walking into the airport with a mask on. Possibly on metro in DC – I mean definitely when we first start riding again but maybe it gets phased out over time. Other than that I don’t see it happening for the long haul. I mean I’ll be super patient about masks wearing them until whenever they say infection rates are low enough etc — that may not even be with this set of vaccines but even until whatever 1 year boosters may be needed. But I don’t see myself wearing a mask say 3 years from now aside from air travel.

   11. I have not been sick for a single day in the past year. I can’t remember ever being this healthy. Ordinarily I will get about one cold a month and at least two or three cases of bronchitis per year, plus an ear infection, case of strep, stomach bug, or case of pneumonia thrown in there every once in a while just to mix it up. Every four or five years I have a stretch of about nine months of constant illness–as soon as I begin to recover from one bug, I pick up another. I can’t believe that this level of illness is at all beneficial.

       Since this time last year, I have not been sick even once. I will continue to wear a mask in public as long as it’s socially acceptable, and I’ll never get on a plane or public transit without one again. I’ll count on my dog, yogurt, and fermented foods as sources of beneficial microorganisms.

       1. You should get tested for immune deficiency. Infections that frequently is a hallmark symptom.

          1. Agree

             this is not normal

             signed,
             doc

       2. I used to get 1-2 bad colds a year and sometimes the flu (despite getting the vaccine). I usually got sick after travelling on a plane, too. I haven’t been sick since January 2020!
          I also now cringe at all the times I went to work while sick, countless other people I could have gotten sick.

   12. I think that theory is about over using antibacterials. There’s no benefit to getting a cold.

   13. Please don’t peddle these kinds of theories without proof. This reeks of the whole vaccine “debate”. Sometimes just asking the question is harmful.

       1. +1 please leave this to non-lawyers and we’ll leave the law to the lawyers

   14. I have nothing to add because I too am most definitely not a scientist, but thank you for bringing this up because it’s not something I thought of at all! Literally last night we were talking about how nice it’s been to not get sick this year and that we should continue wearing masks once this is all “over”… didn’t think of that potential downside.

       1. It’s not a real potential downside though; it’s just a misunderstanding.

       2. There’s no “downside” to not getting sick.

   15. Unpopular, but I’d love to go maskless in a post pandemic world. I just don’t see it happening. Given the widespread skepticism about the effectiveness of the vaccine to actually stop the spread, I’m not sure how we ever get there. Also, the concept that inadvertently passing on a somewhat innocuous sickness, like say a cold, that might infect some vulnerable person and could kill them is not unique to covid. How will it ever not be considered selfish to have a dinner party or go to a restaurant? I just don’t see how we’ll ever get back to prepandemic… anything.

       1. I think this is insane. For starters, half the county is already doing this now. Stay in your bunker forever if you want but this is not reality based.

          1. This poster doesn’t sound like she’s in a bunker. On the contrary, she sounds like she lives in an area where people are abiding by public health restrictions and wants to go back to her pre-pandemic lifestyle ASAP.

             1. Right. I’d love to get out of this bunker, but rationally, I’m struggling with how it becomes socially acceptable. If vaccination is insufficient to lose the mask or hug grandma, we’re all waiting on herd immunity, which is imperfect. Also, the argument can always be made that a new variant is out there or might be out there. Further, as the mask comment indicates, we’re going to adopt covid spread mitigation efforts to non-covid sickness. Even if covid is no longer a threat, which is doubtful, maskless public appearance is probably never going to be acceptable again. So then, how do we get to the point where a dinner party is an acceptable choice? I’m hoping we do, but I think the social value of risk to public health vs. personal freedoms is fundamentally altered, even if I support and abide by covid spread mitigation efforts. I’d really welcome any evidence that I’m wrong, but a bunch of anti-mask, anti-science idiots partying in Florida doesn’t really change my concerns about my own neck of the world.

             2. Gently, I think this reflects a bit of an anxiety spiral. The future is not “maskless public appearance is never going to be acceptable again.” First off, in much of the country, maskless public appearance is perfectly acceptable now unless you are indoors in close quarters (you can argue about whether or not that’s good from a public health perspective, but it is a fact). I’m not sure where you live, but huge portions of the country have zero appetite for continuing COVID type restrictions beyond the acute phase of the crisis, even though many of those states are very hard hit from a health perspective. You can blame that on any number of factors, you can argue about whether those states and their populations are making the right choice, but again…it’s a fact. So the idea that 5 years from now we’re all masking in public because our cold symptoms might actually be a COVID variant…I think political and public will for that is already low and will only decrease.

                Ultimately, we are going to get to a new normal which is probably going to include acceptance that there will be deaths from COVID on an ongoing basis. We don’t seem to be on a path to eradication, although we’re on a path to better treatment and reduced prevalence. What level of death we will accept is going to depend on a variety of social, economic, and public-health trade-offs. I know the comparison to flu has been used to dismiss COVID, and I don’t intend to do that, but I’ll say this – flu is a brutal illness that kills thousands every year. We have public health measures to reduce flu, but we accept a baseline level of flu deaths rather than locking down our entire society. It will be the same with COVID.

             3. I don’t know how you can read this comment that way. She is suggesting there will never again be a time when it will be acceptable to have a dinner party. She is also intentionally reading “we haven’t confirmed the vaccine stops the spread” to mean “we really don’t think the vaccine stops spread” and suggesting there is “skepticiism” about its effectiveness. In fact, everything I have read is to the contrary – we are optimistic that it will work just like other vaccines to stop spread but haven’t yet collected the data. I, for one, don’t plan to proceed with life with the expectation that no one will ever pass a germ again. That’s just life. We needed to contain this but there will be limited outbreaks of Covid in the future and potentially another pandemic in a decade.

             4. Please treat your anxiety instead of spreading false panic. Enough is enough.

             5. Just to help with one point: “Further, as the mask comment indicates, we’re going to adopt covid spread mitigation efforts to non-covid sickness.” Those comments are all from people who plan to voluntarily wear masks in certain places to reduce their own personal sickness, and suggesting that if others are actively sick and sneezing and need to go in public maybe they should try to wear one then too. That is a big difference from a mask mandate for everyone, or shaming healthy-appearing others for not wearing a mask. And hopefully if you are actively sick and sneezing you aren’t going to dinner parties even in pre or post-COVID life, mask or no.

       2. My prediction is the opposite. Based on the behavior we’ve seen so far, I expect that as soon as the vaccine is available to most people who want it, mask-wearing will largely be abandoned. Where I live, most people don’t wear their masks over their noses anyway. Other people’s wearing masks doesn’t benefit me. Only my mask does.

       3. Just to address a couple of points: “Given the widespread skepticism about the effectiveness of the vaccine to actually stop the spread, I’m not sure how we ever get there.”
          The COVID numbers will eventually prove this out either way. If enough people get the vaccine, and numbers dramatically go down to the point where it would be extremely unlikely that you would come across someone with it, if someone still doesn’t believe in the effectiveness of the vaccine that’s on them and I’m not wearing a mask forever for them.
          The other thing I would think about is the unique thing about COVID is how prevalent being asymptomatic with it is. That is why we all have to wear masks – because any one of us could be walking around with full fledged COVID and have no idea. With a cold or a flu you are symptomatic (at least, most of the duration I believe), so there’s little reason to have healthy people wear masks for those unless it’s their own choice for prevention.

       4. Gently, this sounds like the anxiety talking. Look at history. We have had pandemics and diseases that are lethal become endemic before. You had dinner parties before Covid, even though polio and the 1918 flu happened, right? People adjust.

          1. I hope so and thank you.

             A big part of my worries is being constantly told that an internet only version of life is a perfectly acceptable substitute for pre-pandemic life. Lots of my work life will be virtual from here on out. My friend group really embraced zoom, but since I didn’t, since it just somehow made things sadder, I’m just more isolated.

             I do think people are really thriving right now, loving masks and not having to interact with others. What’s more, those people are resilient and virtuous, where people who miss people or smiling in public are selfish or stupid or worse. This true when cases are high locally, or when they are low. The fact that two fully vaccinated people can’t share a meal together without social shaming is just a really tough pill to swallow after a year of isolation.

             1. I don’t mean to invalidate your feelings, but I really don’t think most people see two fully vaccinated people having a meal together as something to shame someone over. I would ask yourself where you are getting that impression and really critically think if that is a reliable read on what is actually going on vs. a few loud people taking this all too far. And maybe backing away from whatever platform or people are making you feel like that.

                If it helps to know, I am in a hot spot (although numbers are coming down fast), people here are really good about being compliant, and yet collectively as a society I don’t think anyone here is blinking an eye if a couple of even unvaccinated friends are getting together for an outdoor meal together. I’m not saying everyone would make that choice, but I don’t think it’s being judged by the majority of people.

             2. @anon, if it helps, this board is basically the one place I see the sentiments expressed your second paragraph the most. Outside of this board, even online, I see far less shaming/dismissal of people who who are struggling with this situation. I think that a lot of people who’ve had a fairly easy time socially/emotionally with the pandemic do NOT seem to understand what it’s like for people who haven’t. And they seem to assume that the difference between those two groups is driven by moral virtue or personal strength, rather than in many cases being an accident of personality.

                Like, pandemic life has been pretty easy for me, but I’m very introverted and a homebody, plus I’m married with a kid and my parents live close enough to bubble with us. And my best friends live all over the country so I was already accustomed to virtual catchup. Thus, I’m already emotionally inclined to be more okay in lockdown, and I’m not as isolated as other people bc of my family situation. That doesn’t make me better. It makes me lucky.

             3. Oh please, social shaming isn’t stopping morons from partying unmasked at bars, so you needn’t worry about social shaming for 2 vaxed people having a meal in a restaurant.

             4. Two people actually can share a meal without social shaming. That’s why we are in this godforsaken situation. Even if there is any shaming, which I doubt at any significant level, it clearly has had zero impact on most people’s behavior.

             5. I am pretty darn introverted, but I am not thriving on masks and lack of social contact. I too would like to get out to an office or a conference, wear normal clothes, and have a meal with friends without feeling like I’m putting people at risk. I definitely don’t plan to live virtually forever. There is a difference between resilience and virtue signaling. I have sympathy for people who can’t cope – even though I’m coping I’m not exactly happy and thrilled.

             6. In my circles, ignoring public health guidance is considered shameful, reckless and callous. I think that’s right. It’s just impossible to be hopeful for the future when you consider that those guidelines remain identical regardless of whether a person is fully immunized. Vaccines were the big hope, now we know they won’t change much. It’s hard to process.

             7. Who is saying that an internet-only life is an acceptable substitute? Truly, I want to know what is driving this anxiety for you. I am someone who is coping well enough during the pandemic but certainly isn’t loving it. I don’t think anyone believes that we’ll never be face-to-face again, even those of us who are advocate for masking up and socially distancing for now.

             8. “In my circles, ignoring public health guidance is considered shameful, reckless and callous. ”
                2 people having a meal outside together is not against public health guidance. Just for example, in my otherwise very conservative CA county: “Outdoor social gatherings involving 25 or fewer people, from three or fewer different households, are now permitted.”

             9. Things that I’m hearing should continue after the pandemic include: masks, as indicated here, a large part of my work life, which included face to face hearings but is now virtual going forward, and my office may cease to exist post-pandemic because people are loving wfh, my charity group which people think is no longer worth meeting because older folks have trouble leaving the house anyway and could get sick with covid or something else.

                My friends all seems fine with this. They say they miss me but only want to Zoom to catch up. They like wfh with their kids around – one girlfriend’s husband is now sah dad of the year. Everyone thinks zoom weddings are great and totally reasonable as a stand in for seeing someone you love get married.

                Even vaccinated people can’t get together again. Bars and restaurants are seem as frivolous at best, immoral at worst and people who go to them must be sociopaths.

                It’s a new world order over here, or it feels like one.

             10. What alternate reality do you live in where people actually care about stopping the virus, and can I move there?

             11. You’re not hearing what people are saying. No one is going to be preferentially choosing Zoom weddings when everyone is vaccinated. That’s really not a thing, except for people who already were living that way before the pandemic began.

                 People are however overwhelmed with gratitude that so many of us have things like Zoom to make this more bearable. I am pretty sure that this is the first time in the history of humans that people have had a way to socialize in real time during a widescale pandemic without risking anyone’s life. Even when this is hard, it feels ridiculous to complain when you have this perspective, and focusing on what we can do makes it all less hard.

             12. To Anon at 940
                 Come to visit Atlanta. Everything is open. I am not saying GA did what was right in 2020, but I think it might help you get some perspective.

             13. @Anon at 940. I don’t think you’re being anxious, actually. Yes, in some parts of the country people are acting like there’s no pandemic, and it’s terrible and has caused a lot of death. But in my social circle, I have had multiple friends express that it’s “irresponsible” for two *vaccinated* people to have a meal together because they could be “contributing to community spread.” (Never mind that all the research coming out shows that it’s extraordinarily unlikely). I’ve even had friends express that they don’t want to send their children back to school next fall — even if the country is largely vaccinated — unless there is *zero* covid. And yes, I do think that some people are personally very happy during the pandemic, because it has relieved them of the burden of social obligations. I also think that a some portion of society now views zoom as a perfectly acceptable substitute for everything which used to be in person. Why? Because it’s easier. Ultimately, I am worried that in some social circles — e.g., highly educated urban liberals, which is my world — avoiding parties, restaurants, and large gatherings will to continue to be seen as virtuous long after we’re all vaccinated (because any gathering could theoretically spread disease, no matter how unlikely). Does it directly affect me if some portion of society chooses to withdraw from in-person life for the next year or two, or until there is zero covid? Well, no. But I do think it will further contribute to the isolation, loss of community, and sense of purposelessness that increasingly plagues American life, in ways that are difficult to quantity but are quietly destructive nonetheless. And that is a tremendous loss.

                 Anyway: I have been scrupulously following public health advice since the beginning of the pandemic and I haven’t traveled or seen anyone indoors since last March. My socialization has been limited to outdoor, masked walks with a couple of friends. But the second I get fully vaccinated (likely not until summer) I’m throwing a dinner party for all my vaccinated friends, and probably getting on a plane to Belize. And I fully support anyone else doing the same.

                 I’ll still probably wear masks on planes forever, though.

       5. You’re aware that the R-0 value of the common cold isn’t anything like the R-0 value of Covid-19, right?

       6. EVERYONE MORE CAUTIOUS THAN ME HAS ANXIETY – this board, every day

          1. +1.

          2. This person isn’t talking about being cautious, though. She’s expressing something close to despair about an envisioned future where normal community and social life never return due to COVID restrictions endure forever. That *does* sound like anxiety, because that’s not a realistic future scenario, and it would be helpful for her to seek support and treatment so she doesn’t feel as bleak about the future.

             1. +1

             2. Not your job to diagnose anyone with anxiety. Other people can do things differently than you do and you can just let them. Did that ever occur to you? Did she specifically ask “do you think I’m anxious?” Or were you just triggered by someone having a different idea about how she should live her own life?

             3. You seem awfully agitated about someone trying to help someone feel hope rather than despair, Anon@12:49.

             4. Exactly. I just read a good piece from the NYT on “COVID absolutism.” It is of limited effect now and will be total overkill if made permanent.

             5. You know,in most parts of the US it’s the crummiest part of the year, it’s hella cold or it’s snowing or icing or freezing raining. It’s not surprising that people are feeling blue, and I know that when I’m feeling down about one thing, everything else seems terrible too. So I think it’s not hugely unexpected that some people might be feeling despair and that things won’t ever get better. I have had a few days like that myself recently.

                But it will get better. And all this nonsense about “skepticism” about the vaccine – I would say that no expert is “skeptical.” Do they acknowledge that some variants might be harder to immunize against, yes, sure, but the new vaccines work very, very well, and because of how they are made, it will be relatively quick and easy to develop and get approval for vaccines that target new variants.

                So hang in there, and don’t feel bad if you hate COVID life. A lot of people do, they just have different ways of expressing it. I’m coping, but it is not fun.

             6. Wow, that “COVID absolutism” article is great – I highly recommend that people check it out.

             7. Thanks poly d. That is helpful. To clarify, I’m also hopeful that the vaccines are effective in not just curbing sickness but spread. My frustration is that the public health officials have pushed us to act as if one is fully and totally contagious even after full vaccination, and I’m not sure that these recommendations will end with herd immunity.

   16. I used to take the Metro and got sick in the summer but not the winter (summer colds are so annoying! they were always when there was something fun to do). My theory was the gloves kept my hands cleaner, so I resolved to be a bit more vigilant re handwashing (or not having hands near face) and it made a noticeable difference. It was token minimal effort, but left me thinking that we can control a lot with simple basic steps done on the regular.

       1. This – I noticed I got sick a lot less in the winter and finally linked it to wearing my gloves on the subway/to push elevator buttons. I think (hope) we’ll all be a LOT more vigilant about hand washing/hand sanitizer in the future.

          1. I would like to bring back the gloves my grandma wore to church. Year round. No more icky handshakes!

             1. I would be happy if we quit shaking hands forever, most especially in church. Ick.

   17. I have an autoimmune disorder that was likely caused by a virus triggering something in my genetics. I’m fine with avoiding more in the future. I had an outdoorsy childhood filled with germs and animals.

   18. Is there evidence that Asian cultures (where masks are routinely worn) are more likely to have autoimmune disorders than Western cultures? Of course one would have to parse out genetic differences that may impact Asians differently from other races.

   19. Well, I already have the chronic autoimmune condition and have lived far from a germ free life (I grew up on a farm and lived in a city and taught school for a while so I feel like I’ve caught every virus known to man) so yes I will be wearing a mask post COVID. In part because I enjoyed not having a cold that turned into bronchitis this year, and in part because who knows whether the vaccine will work for me when I finally get it.

   20. I am.hoping that the only remnants from.pandemic life that exist in 2022 are masks when sick and in public and to-go cocktails. But my life didn’t change dramatically anyway because of where I live and who I socialize with.

   21. The NYT “covid absolutism” article conflates absolute enforcement of effective safety measures (e.g., universal masking, closing restaurants) with hygiene theater that is ineffective at best and harmful at worse (e.g., making college students stay indoors). We should be absolutists about masking in public, closing gyms and restaurants, prohibiting nonessential contact between non-household members, etc. until we get things under control. If we fully implemented these measures instead of the half-a$$ed job we’re doing now, we could get infections down to a manageable level and safely loosen restrictions much sooner. We should not be wasting time, resources, and energy on measures that are known to be ineffective, defy common sense, or actually increase risk.

       1. +1
          Given that we’re now looking at > 400,000 dead in the US, the cautious ones that everyone called “crazy,” including on here, were the ones who were right.

          I’m gonna keep being cautious and y’all armchair therapists can keep diagnosing me as anxious until you’re blue in the face, or, y’know, dead.

          1. Agree completely. If I were a benevolent dictator, I would have kept schools open, shut down EVERYTHING else with robust aid for business owners, required masks everywhere right away and invoked the Defense Production Act to make it happen, and done countless other measures that have been called “anxious” by people here. Glad to be “anxious” if it means we actually follow science and reduce death, you know?

   22. Well, I have quite the collection, I’d rather not put the whole thing in storage just in case there’s another pandemic. I plan on wearing a mask any time there’s a bad bug going around, or any time I’m recovering from something but need to run an errand or something. I may keep a couple masks at my desk in case one of my coworkers decides to be a martyr and come in sick.

       You’re right that living a completely sanitized, germ-free life isn’t a good idea, but I think masks are gonna have a place in post-pandemic society.

2. Yesterday I tried some 10ish year old straight leg jeans with booties and found that I really preferred how that looked to skinny jeans with booties. I hadn’t worn these jeans in ages (they seemed mom-jean-adjacent, before mom jeans were everywhere), but probably because I work them with sneakers on days I just didn’t care too much.

   In a few months it will be warm enough to wear skinny jeans with flats / other shoes, but I wanted to wear socks.

   Booties were a 1″ heeled pair of Sorels (waterproof, rubber sole).

   1. I LOVED the fit of the Jcrew matchsticks, as they were straight but not skin tight. Then they stopped making them. I wonder if they’ll go back to making that style now that skinny jeans aren’t as popular with the younger crowd?

      1. Check out Poshmark! I bet you can find some there :)

      2. +1 to Poshmark and maybe also try Thredup. Thredup’s photos are kind of garbage, but if you know exactly what you want you should be able to narrow it down. You can also send stuff back (for a restock fee, which I’m perpetually shaking my fist at). I wear exactly one type of pants to work. They’re $200 retail and I don’t think they even make them anymore. I’ve been buying them exclusively off Thredup for years now.

3. Random question but has anyone gotten to a point in their career where they feel like people are happy to have you on the team and take advantage of your work and work ethic, but you never really get ahead? Like you’ll get the good reviews, everyone constantly wants to staff you on their team, they’re happy with you running their cases for them 24-7, but when it comes time for that promotion to partner (in law firm life) or director or whatever (in house), nope you’re not THAT good, we don’t think of you THAT way. How did you deal with it? I’m at that point where it’s like fine if I’m not THAT good then I’m not going to work THAT hard. I’ll still work of course but not be the constantly reliable one who stops things from going wrong. Or I’m considering leaving it all and starting my own (not lawyer) where I can go as high or as low as I can take myself, not relying on others to notice me. Anyone been there?

   1. Leave. I ‘grew up’ in a previous firm (started as a new hire in an entry-level role and stagnated at the mid-level manager stage). I was always appreciated/a team player but they just didn’t want to give internal folks the same raises/roles they did to the shiny new people from outside. It stinks, but I think you know that’s really your only option – you can’t MAKE them promote you.

   2. *starting my own business. For context I’m 40, 15 years out of law school so it’s not like I’m antsy for a promotion in year 5.

      1. I’m 56 and finally started my own business this year. I wasn’t passed over so much as frustrated at corporate politics leading to stupid decisions. I decided I’d had it with working for The Man and I’d like to work for the woman for a while – this one. I eat what I kill and I don’t have to worry about someone else dragging away my zebra and claiming credit for it.

   3. Yessss. Me! But I’m in this situation currently so can’t offer advice. Following with interest (and solidarity).

      1. Same here!

   4. In my org there are some senior people who actively work against promoting the best juniors because they don’t want to lose them as project staff or compete against them to direct projects. Just food for thought.

      1. +1 this is so so common. I genuinely thought several of my previous bosses didn’t like me because they never promoted me. Well lo and behold they have all reached out to try and poach me over the years.

      2. This is so stupid and such a disservice to those hard workers. I understand the perspective but this is infuriating. If I’m in the situation of the employee not getting promoted, I’d leave ASAP.

   5. Dealing with this now with the promise of a promotion next year. I’m the old faithful one who puts out the fires and gets things done. Makes me feel burnt out when I’m so busy getting things done and don’t get a ton of recognition for it. I told my manager in my end of year review that I was starting to feel a little stagnant having been here for 4 years and plateaued. We will see. If I don’t get the promotion next year, I think I’m going to have to leave.
      No advice, but definitely commiseration even though IANAL.

   6. Yes. The answer is that you leave. I was in a large in house department for over a decade. My work product was great, I was constantly assigned high level matters (like presenting to the C-Suite, material to the stock price) , and STILL I had exactly one promotion the entire time. In hindsight, I think the top leaders of the department made a lot of money and didn’t want to share the wealth. I left and am killing it. Making a lot more money and getting credit for my work.

      I would question your ability to scale back in your current job. If you’re good at your job, it’s hard to pull back on that throttle. There are greener pastures. And the hang ups that your management has about you won’t transfer.

   7. So what got me over this hump was them finally hiring a junior person below me. (This is a law firm) At that point, I was able to work more on my own matters and thus boost my own originations/book of business enough to make partner the next year. Con was being underpaid for a LONG time, but pro was not having to bust my a** at any point – I went through 2 maternity leaves and made partner when I was working a strict 80%, but my book was on a level with the lower third of the existing equity partners.

   8. This was me a year ago. I applied for and received a promotion outside of my department and that put me on a whole new trajectory. Something to consider-kind of like leaving but not actually leaving.

   9. I got to that point at my large firm about 4 years ago. I left two years ago to be a partner at a smaller firm. I make more money and bring in clients just fine there.
      My colleagues at last firm all acted surprised that I was being made a partner and I just wanted to scream that there was just someone holding me down at my last firm and an overall lack of investment by the firm in me and my office and no one seemed to care. One person “didn’t see me as partner material”, probably because we are different in personality and I threatened him. But despite that assessment, they all came to me foor years for the “tough” cases that required deep thinking and excellent writing and a deep understanding of law and procedure and also for management of large projects and high-volume case management. Leave and find somewhere you can spread your wings. I have more responsibility now but a better life in every aspect and I don’t have chronic illness or muscle tension either.

      1. Wow this resonates. By chance I got stuck working for a partner who is difficult to work for and has a ton of boring, easy work that I’d never ever want to do for my whole career and that will limit my skillset if it’s all I do. I’ve been working my butt off to separate myself from him but I’m too good for him to let me go completely. The partners deny outright that this work is below my skillset long term and expect me to be genuinely willing and interested in doing it. And yet, when it comes to the really tough cases, especially if they are emergencies, that require deep thinking, excellent analytical skills, excellent, quick writing skills, and the ability to assimilate vast amounts of information at the drop of a hat… they all come to me. Sitting here right now with tense shoulders and a throbbing headache after staying up until 12:00 working on an amicus brief for federal court that the partners decided they wanted to draft and file in 7 days.

         1. I would put feelers out. My best clients are referrals from my.last firm, including the partner who didn’t think I was “partner material” but gladly engages me to work side-by-side him on cases now and looks to me for advice on everything, including strategy and client management.

   10. Yes, this was me a year ago. I made it known informally thru office gossip that if they hired an external person to do the job level I was aiming for and had less experience than me, I would quit in a hot second and I knew it would cost them loads of money to replace me. It worked, I was promoted with a 10% raise about three months after that. Probably not the best way to do it but… between the pandemic and everything, I have been promoted to the level I had been aiming for for 2-3 years and am no longer doing the all the grunt work since I’m now too expensive for them. Now I get to do higher level projects!

   11. Echoing the advice to start looking. IANAL, but was in exactly this position – put on every high-profile project and committee, added to meetings where everyone else was at least a title above me, called directly by c-suite for certain issues, but no promotion on the horizon. So I started looking for opportunities elsewhere. I liked my job a lot, so I could afford to be picky, and the pandemic definitely impacted job searching, but I found a role at the right level and salary and just completed my second week in it. Don’t burn bridges, because you could be brought back to your current organization in the future, but if that happens, it will be commensurate with your value. You’ve got this!

   12. Yes, you need to leave. I was in your same shoes for too long. At my last firm, I was the super-senior associate who busted my butt and worked a crazy amount of hours – I found out that I was making a huge profit each year for the equity partner who got origination credit for all of my work and that partner did not want to cut off the gravy train by having to split any of the credit with me. Literally, he was incentivized to keep me at the same level and not split the pie – I think this is actually pretty common in law firms.

       In my firm prior to that, I asked a sympathetic partner who is on the executive committee what exactly I need to do to make partner, and his first response was: “You need to be indispensable.” Which is BS, as no one really is at a 100 year old firm, but when I asked him to clarify, he said “Well, most people who make partner have a big book of business.” When I pointed out two (male) associates who had been promoted to partner without a big book, he said that in both cases, they thought the associate was going to generate a lot more business (but they actually continued to service firm clients instead).

       So, he was proving the point, often mentioned here, that men are promoted on the basis of potential while women are promoted on the basis of their achievement. No kidding I left.

4. How do you and your husband/boyfriend mix decor styles?

   My boyfriend and I moved in together a few years ago and we mostly just used his furniture because it was way nicer than mine, and I was moving in to his much nicer/bigger place so I didn’t get to do a ton of decorating. Since then, it very much has become to felt like “ours.” But now we’re moving and get to finally create the rooms together from scratch which I’m really excited about. However, we have slightly different design styles.

   He has tons of gorgeous handmade cherry shaker and mission-style furniture and lots of beautiful framed photography. I recognize that it’s really nice, but I love ornate antiques, soft fabrics, and paintings.

   Good thing is we communicate really well and are trying to figure out ideas that we’ll both love and how we can blend our two styles. Neither of us want the approach of “you can have that room, I’ll have this room to decorate.” I do very much appreciate that he’s definitely not the “I’ll just let the girl handle the home” kind of guy :)

   1. We stick with similar color palettes but mix styles. most of our furniture is about the same tone wood and then all of the fabrics are a combination of blues, greens, and neutrals. It helps keep the house looking somewhat consistent, but we each have our own pieces. Art is a little bit trickier so we compromise more there.

   2. We compromise on style and shape, but he gets no say in color.

      (He’s red-green colorblind. I get fed up early on explaining why the oxblood curtains couldn’t go in the periwinkle bedroom.)

      1. It’s too funny to me that I am wearing a sweater the color of which is literally denominated by Everlane as oxblood, with a scarf that incorporates oxblood, periwinkle, cream, taupe. The combo rocks! (But I see your point on curtains.)

   3. You can mix paintings and photography in the same room. You can soften mission or shaker style furniture with cozy/highly textured pillows and throws to add the cozy factor you are looking for.

      TBH I hate ornate antiques so I have zero ideas on how to incorporate that.

      1. I would keep the clean-lined shaker look with the big furniture pieces and incorporate the more ornate antiques in the form of smaller accent pieces.

      2. I like these suggestions.

         I’d recommend Tara Shaw’s work for inspiration on antiques. I’m sure she’s on Insta. She doesn’t mix with mission style furniture, but she does mix antiques with really clean lined mid- century and modern things. It’s all super neutral in color but good grief it is beautiful stuff.

   4. I would have each of you create some pinterest boards of rooms that you like, then look at them together and talk about what you like in them.

      I think your styles are pretty complimentary. I think with lots of textiles, curtains, rugs and a focus texture instead of pattern you can get the softness you crave while keeping the furniture. I don’t see photos vs paintings being a issue – I think they work well together (maybe swap out frames to help integration). But, I also think decorating is best done over time – so give yourself some time!

   5. You are lucky. My ex boyfreind and I couldn’t have been more different. I was styleish, and he was a slob. He lived at home with his mom and I have my own condo with nice furniture and rugs. He dirtied up the rugs and never cleaned at all. He left his stuff wherever he wanted and I had to come home to a sloppy apartment full of his stuff. He also was not hygenic, so I did not want to have s-x with him as soon as I came thru the door. I finally threw him out with Dad’s help after he refused to improve himself or get a job.

      HIVETTES, please be carful of the men you let into your lives. It is not worth it just to have a boyfreind if he is a self serving slob. Mine was also a schlubby loser who did not want to work. PTOOEY on those men!

   6. I think you can make this work. Does he have strong feelings about rugs? If not, that’s a good place to go with antiques for you, in the form of an oriental. Once you have that base, a couple of ornate accent chairs or benches and ornate lamps can pair with his existing pieces. Then pick patterns for the pillows that vary in scale and bring in elements you both like – would a William Morris print work for both of you? Once you have the base, then you can figure out the art.

   7. I moved into my husband’s house when we got married because it was much bigger and nicer, even though I had just finished remodeling and decorating my own house. It was a little wrenching, but I brought a lot of art and accessories and they blended nicely with what was already here. Also I staked a claim to his unused spare bedroom and turned it into a dressing room that I got to decorate as I wanted. And now, almost five years later, we are re-doing the last bathroom together and adding some skylights to the dark family room.

      It’s definitely a process but over time it’s come to feel like “ours” rather than “his.” We are fortunate that we have the same general sensibility even though it was initially expressed quite differently.

   8. Can you pick some pieces that will help the two styles meet? WSJ used to have a column where designers would figure out a way to get two beloved, but very different, items (each from 1/2 of a couple) to work together in the same room. The strategy was generally to add a third item that had features of both. It sounds like your taste is more Victorian, which was right before the Arts and Crafts/ Mission took off. Maybe look for inspiration items from ~1910 which would have been transitional between the two styles. I do have one specific recommendation for fabrics: I would bet William Morris patterns would scratch your ornate fabrics itch (because he is awesome).

   9. OP here. You ladies all had such amazing ideas!! Thank you so much. Funny that two people suggested William Morris — perfect because we actually just bought a bunch of pillows in a print of his that we both love :)

5. Does anyone use the Dyson Airwrap with success? I can’t tell if it’s worth the $$$$ or is actually as good as it’s cracked up to be!

   I wash my hair a TON because I’m a triathlete and often have swim before work (during non-covid times) and then a run/bike after work. When I started washing my hair so much I stopped always styling it, mostly due to the time it takes. But, I’m sick of always having wet hair! I love a blow out look but I don’t want to get a blow out if I’m going to get it wet and chlorine-y in a matter of hours :)

   1. Have you tried products like the Bumble and Bumble no blow-dry styling cream? I use a microfiber towel to dry my hair, apply the B and B product, and end up with a surprisingly good result.

      1. +1 to BB Don’t Blow It. Former swimmer – Can’t be bothered to dry my hair in summer, even as an adult. My hair is fine (2A, medium porosity) but I have a lot of it. If I skip conditioner, it dries faster (I realized this may not be possible for you).

      2. Wah. This product is not CurlyGirl approved, and that method is critical to my anti-frizz complaint.

   2. Swim cap? DH did a couple of tri training classes and most of the women athletes wore swim caps for the early morning pool sessions ( I made a comment on how I wouldn’t be able to do the course just based on the constant hair washing and he mentioned the swim caps.)

      1. A swim cap doesn’t keep your hair completely dry.

         1. +1. My college-swimmer sister will confirm (she mostly wears them for hydrodynamics).

            1. Yeah OP here. Always wear a swim cap! I always rinse my hair before getting in the pool though because you get less chlorine damage if your wear is already wet/saturated with non-chlorine water. But there’s really no way around getting it wet.

            2. I meant “hair” not “wear” :)

      2. No semi-serious swimmer is going to be swimming without a swim cap.

   3. No but I am also considering it. It seems to depend on the type of hair you have.

   4. No experience with the Dyson, but I have the Revlon hair dryer brush, and it is as good or better than its cracked up to be. I dry my hair about half way with a regular hair dryer, and then use the Revlon for the rest of the way. 5 minutes with each tool (10 min total) leaves my hair looking somewhere between “good enough” & “full blow out”. My hair is moderately thick, to the middle of my back & only has a minor wave.

      The Revlon hair dryer brush is only about $50, so its not as much of a commitment as the Dyson if you try it and don’t like it.

   5. There was a poster in early January who was in LOVE, and mixed reviews in response. Sounds like it varies by hair type.

   6. I had a Dyson Airwrap for a bit, but I returned it. It made my hair look fantastic. I am horrible at all things hair/makeup, and have never used a curling iron in my life, but the Airwrap gave me a professional looking blowout on like my second or third try. However, I returned it because I realistically only blow my hair out once a month so it wasn’t worth it. If $$ was no issue I would buy it again in a heartbeat.

   7. I have the Air Wrap, and love it. I bought it back in March and was uncertain if I should keep it with lockdown and the idea I wasn’t going to see people in person for a while. I am so glad I kept it. I have shoulder length, thick, wavy hair. The air wrap cuts down my drying time to nothing and I finish it off with the attachment that is sort of like a paddle brush. It leaves my hair shiny, soft and frizz free for days.

   8. Fellow triathlete here. I have the Dyson Airwrap and love it. Before triathlon training, I used to get Brazilian Blowouts which are $200. The Airwrap pays for itself quickly.

6. Before my newish bf and I met, he had a cushy high-level job but got fired and was unemployed for a year, got a job just before meeting me but not like what he had (works super hard, no benefits, less stable, lower level). He’s grateful to have a job again, period.

   I have a stable, well-paying job where I don’t have to do much–I realize that’s a privilege, but I’m not happy there (toxic office culture, plus I prefer to work hard and not be sidelined). I have in-demand skills and expect/am searching for a better employer.

   When we talk, I try to keep perspective and minimize complaints about my job, but when I do complain I worry I’m being insensitive because my concerns are about being fulfilled in my job whereas his concerns are about keeping his job and getting by/rebuilding his career.

   For instance I’ve said I had a frustrating day because I don’t have enough work and can’t use the skills I was hired for, and in addition to supportive responses he’s said “I wish I had that problem”…not in a jerky way, but because he’s struggling to keep up at his job.

   At the same time it seems wrong to pretend I’m simply grateful to be employed, had a good/non-frustrating day at work, etc. It’s one thing not to share it with a friend having a hard time, but I don’t want to hide my feelings/life from a boyfriend. My dissatisfactions are valid even if they aren’t the end of the world (and he has said as much to me). I also don’t want to be an oblivious jerk whining about the taste of my three-course meal in front of someone hungry.

   1. I don’t think I could respond accurately as my position would be largely depend on WHY your boyfriend was fired from his previous job.

      1. I agree. You need to figure out WHY your boyfreind was fired. It could range from stealing from the company (a felony) to haveing s-x with the secretary on the conference room table, like my associate did. Either way, you need to know NOW, before you invest more time and energy with him.

         Either way, you do NOT want to be tippie toeing around this schlub if he is a theif or if he has uncontrollable s-xueal urges that cause him to use the conference room table for s-x with the secretary (or anyone else). That is what YOUR bedroom is for.

         Once you find out, you can proceed with him or you can DTMFA. My vote is to find out first, as our decisions should be based on the Science, like Dr. Fouchi says. YAY!!!!

      2. I’m curious why that matters…is it about whether he deserved to be unemployed vs was blameless? He was fired for a reason (though where I worked, it wouldn’t have been seen as ideal but people would not be fired for that reason unless it had been extreme). I would call it an error of judgment but he did not knowingly do something awful.

         1. Sometimes people need to pay the price for their actions and take accountability instead of victimizing themselves.

            1. Holy projection, Batman.

            2. Well, he has paid and continues to pay the price for his mistake. I don’t really feel like part of my relationship with him should be rubbing his nose in it…if I thought he continued to deserve to be punished for what he did I wouldn’t be dating him.

   2. You know what works best for your relationship and him, but one thing that I think has helped me in a similar (but different context) situation is being specific.

      My SO lost his mom a few years ago and I have a rather rocky relationship with mine, so sometimes feel insensitive when I’m complaining about my mom since he doesn’t have his. But I’ve realize if I’m complaining about something very specific (“ugh my mom said xx…”) it’s fine, but I would never complain about big picture more general problems with like not wanting to visit her, whether to see each other for holidays, etc.

      I also think it’s all about timing. Don’t complain if he’s having a really rough day.

      I think it’s fine to be honest about issues you’re having but you just have to be a bit sensitive about how you’re couching it.

      1. Your second paragraph is good. I lost my mom as a child and it never bothered me to hear people say “my mom did x annoying thing today,” but I felt like saying “want to trade places?” when they’d complain that she just wanted to spend too much time with them, etc.

   3. NTA

      1. Hahaha. See you there.

   4. I would have the same conversation you are having with us with him. I don’t see a reason you can’t express your feelings about the situation to your BF and work out a compromise or solution that works for both of you. You both have needs and they should be met, but you have to discuss them with each other.

      1. Thanks, yeah, I think this is correct. I am guessing when I should be bringing it up with him. Appreciate your (and everyone’s) comments.

         1. Yes, and if you say it as kindly and vulnerably as you said it here, it should open a good conversation. If it doesn’t, I’d want to double click on whether I had as strong of communication in my relationship as I thought.

            1. I love the “double click” here instead of “double check.” Autofill funnies tickle me.

   5. Your boyfriend seems to regard this as a zero sum game, where there are suffering points and he needs to have 100% of them. If you take, say 10% then he only has 90% and that’s unacceptable to him.

      A man that can’t for one minute try to be empathetic to your concerns in this area is probably not going to be supportive in other areas. Do you want a man who can’t support you when you’re sick because he was once sicker than you? How about childcare? You’re tired and need help, but he is also tired so screw you.

      He sounds like a narcissist. This is a classic narcissist behavior. Tread carefully.

      It is OK not to like your job and to want a new job. You should be with someone who can put themselves in your shoes rather than just comparing it to their own.

      1. Wow, I don’t get that read at all from what OP has written here.

         1. Read it again. Someone who is not allowed to share her frustrations with her job because boyfriend has his own frustrations? That’s literally what she wrote about.

            1. Okay, yikes, I think you’re projecting. He hasn’t told her not to share any of these things, he’s not dictating this. But who knows, maybe he is the worst person in the world, what do I know.

         2. Agreed with anon 12:47 (this is OP). I don’t think he has made me feel like I shouldn’t share my frustrations, and he does care/ask me about how my work is. I’m just pre-emptively worrying that I shouldn’t complain because my complaints are objectively much more trivial than his at this point. And he does sometimes make comments like “I wish I had that problem” or “I hope I get back there someday”…but I don’t feel like they are pointed at me and I think those comments are valid, too.

      2. +1 sounds like some narcissist red flags. You are entitled to dislike your job. You don’t have to walk on eggshells around him and worry you’re stressing him out. People complain about jobs, are underutilized, have bad bosses…all the time. This is a thing you should be able to discuss with your partner.

         1. Hmm, I don’t *think* he is a narcissist unless it is really subtle. It may not be that I’m walking on eggshells because of anything he is doing wrong, but just because of my own history/trying to be sensitive to someone else’s feelings.

            Like if I had a baby and my friend was going through infertility problems and I wouldn’t stop talking about how great it was to have a baby…just doesn’t seem sensitive to what the other person is going through.

            1. Your example is not apt. You are not coming home and bragging about your great job while your boyfriend has a terrible job. You both have jobs you don’t like aspects of and your boyfriend appears to shut you down from talking about your disliked aspects because he perceives them as unimportant compared to his complaints.

7. I have always tried to have a black wrap or faux wrap dress in my closet as a versatile workhorse. My current one (faux wrap from Leota) is too small and I feel like I am not likely to revert back to it. I was eyeing the faux wrap at Wool& — does anyone have this? DVF doesn’t work for me, so a faux wrap is best. I’d love for any replacement to approximate the Leota/DVF look, but with mail order you can’t tell how a fabric or cut works on you. I’m 5-4 and short-waisted, so often the waist placement isn’t often right for me.

   I’m intrigued by the wool, as a lot of synthetic wraps have fabric that is thin, shows every lump and bump, or pilled quickly. [So I might get a more casual Wool& dress, as the sweatshirt one I’d probably have worn 100 days in a row by now if I had gotten it in October, but I’m not sure I can budget for two and am starting to go back to the office 1 day/week. I had liked the wraps-style before b/c I could wear to work conferences that I had to fly to and tended to be much more formal than our casual day-to-day office.]

   1. I cannot make wrap dresses work on my, so I usually default to a washable Jersey dress from a known company (Hobbs, Brooks Brothers, etc.) so I know it will be thick enough. What about something like this?
      https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Knit-Jacquard-Dress/WX00567,default,pd.html
      Of Mercer seems to have some nice options to, but I can’t speak to the brand specifically.

      1. Oooh that brooks brothers dress looks amazing! And it comes it petite! OP, petite sizing might work for you if you are short waisted, even if you are not short in overall stature.

   2. I can’t speak to Wool& but I have several faux wrap dresses from Karina Dresses and they were major workhorses for me pre-pandemic. It’s the ‘Ruby’ style. I’ve owned some of these dresses for years and none of them have any pilling.

   3. Following with interest. I have never ordered from Wool& because most of their dresses seem to have a lot of fabric. I am short, average not petite, and my best bets are dresses that are less voluminous but not bodycon. On the other hand, maybe I just think Wool& dresses are wider because of the size range of models used (appeciated!) in a world where my eyes have been trained to see tall, very thin models as the norm. I am interested in all Wool& feedback.

   4. No experience with Wool& but can highly, highly recommend the Karen Kane cascade faux wrap. I wear it weekly – and have even replaced it when it got too worn after a few years because I love it so much. I’m a 16 hourglass, so I have lumps and I feel like it is so flattering on.

      1. +1 to this dress. I have it in a blue print and have worn it regularly for years.

   5. What about MM LaFleur? They have fabrics that don’t cling and that stand up well to washing. There are several styles that have faux wrap or ruching elements that you might like. They are also currently having sales, which is rare.

   6. I’ve got a couple of Lauren RL faux wrap dresses that are synthetic but have a heavier drape and are resistant to pilling. Similar to this https://www.dillards.com/p/lauren-ralph-lauren-cleora-floral-print-matte-jersey-faux-wrap-long-sleeve-dress/511521716

   7. I’ve had wool wrap dresses before (jersey knit style fabric), and never again. Lovely and warm, but I ended up getting extreme static build ups and had shocks from my computer, fridge, door etc. throughout the day, as well as very clingy thighs. I did use a slip underneath, but still clingy. I do get a lot of static, though, so ymmw.

8. Has anyone found a good solution to keeping mildew out of a front-loading washing machine? Mine is in a hallway closet, so I can’t leave it open without blocking the whole hallway with the closet door. Any suggestions?

   1. There are gadgets you can buy to prop the door open just a crack. If your closet is deep enough, that might work. Otherwise a top-loader may be your only solution.

   2. I have mine in a hall closet and I still leave the door open a couple inches so the closet door can close – it doesn’t need to be all the way open to dry. Also pull out the soap dispenser.

   3. Pull out the soap dispenser immediately after a load (there is SO much water left in mine) and then if you can’t leave it open, can you wipe down the gasket (where a lot of the water hides) with a microfiber cloth? I also think having it propped open even slightly will help.

   4. It seems crazy to me that this is a known problem with these machines and yet people keep buying them and coming up with all these tricks to deal with them that still don’t really work. Wouldn’t it just be easier to get a top loader?

      1. I cannot get a top loader because my laundry room requires me to stack my machines. Sniff.

         1. There are absolutely stackable top loading sets! I have one.

            1. I have one too.

      2. Not if you rent…

         I’m in the same boat as the OP. The washer is in a hallway closet; leaving it open blocks the entire hallway. This closet is next to my bedroom and thus blocks my bedroom door. My soap dispenser is located elsewhere on the machine, so I can’t open that to prop the door open. My closet door is a folding door so it’s either open or closed, I can’t leave it cracked. I rent, so I can’t control what appliances I have, otherwise I’d have a top loader washer and a new dishwasher!

         OP – not great, but I just leave it open like 1x a week after I do my laundry and have the hallway blocked for a few hours. If

      3. I have posted before but I think that LG has fixed this problem by making it so the door can stay cracked (maybe 1/4 in?). I have to check all the time as to whether the door is open or closed because you can’t really tell from looking. If you open the door and don’t slam or push it closed, it automatically goes into cracked position. I have even occasionally left a wet load in without cracking the door and still never had mold on the gasket.

      4. Mine has never had mold in it, to be fair.

         1. Same

         2. The only time it happened for me was when my DH completely closed the door and I didn’t notice for a week. Otherwise I love front loading washers and have had them for 20+ years.

      5. I had a brand new top loading high efficiency washer that performed so poorly at actually getting my clothes clean that I was thrilled to replace with a front loader when we moved even if it means I need to leave the door cracked.

   5. I keep a microfiber towel close by and wipe the door and seals with it after my laundry session.

   6. Thanks for all the suggestions! Unfortunately there is a counter built directly on top of the machines so hard to replace with a top-loader, but I’m seriously considering it next time we need to buy a new washer. In the meantime, I’ll try wiping down the machine and removing the soap tray, and see if I can prop it open a crack.

      1. I use a heavy duty magnet (inside the washer) with one of these hanging moisture absorber bags:

         Yogi Brand Moisture Absorber Bag, Fragrance Free, Dehumidifier Bag, Hanging Closet Dehumidifier Bags, Moisture Absorbers 235g with 10g Activated Charcoal (from Amazon)

         It works great at absorbing the moisture and the mold smell. I do wipe down the seal with a paper towel and leave the washer door & closet door open a few inches. Learned about it on LifeHacker website. I remove the magnet and bag when I do laundry and then put them back.

9. Any recommendations for wine subscriptions? Or names of those to avoid? Specifically interested in the quality of the wines. Looking for a gift for a relative. Thanks in advance.

   1. I had the NYTimes Cooking wine subscription and I wasn’t impressed. It wasn’t an especially good value for the price. I felt like I could spend about the same and go to the store and get comparable quality wines that would be more to my preference. Also I am primarily a white wine drinker and they are heavy on the reds.

   2. I have enjoyed Wall Street Journal wines and have gifted the subscription to others who also enjoyed them. They often run deep discounts for first time subscribers, so you may get lucky if they are doing one now.

      1. I’ve used this too and been satisfied. Nothing particularly fancy, but I have enjoyed most of the wines. I mostly like it for the convenience and because they give you a good variety, whereas I would likely stick with the same wines if I went to the store myself.

   3. Do you know their taste in wine? If so, I’d probably go directly to a vineyard or winery that’s known for their preferred types of wine–almost all of them have membership options, and a lot of them are shipping in covid times even if you had to pick up wines in person before.

      Source, friend who works for a winery who says their wine club is currently keeping their doors open.

      1. I was going to suggest this.

   4. We have a Biltmore Wines subscription and we like it. You pick white or red and it comes quarterly (3 bottles per shipment). Since NC really only grows Muscadine grapes, all of the reds are from California/other states and blended/bottled by Biltmore. It’s a nice variety of wines and a good cadence.

   5. Gold Medal Wine Club has a couple of different subscription options. We’ve done their International and their small Cali. clubs and though both were good. The international food add-on was only ok and not nearly as consistent as the wines.

   6. If there’s a local wine shop near them I’d call and ask about their clubs. I love mine. Support local businesses if you can!

      And shoutout to Vintage Berkeley if you by some chance happen to be around here. I love my club with them.

      1. This would be my answer. I absolutely love my local wine shop’s selections from month to month.

   7. I did a trial of Winc over the summer, and decided to stick with it. I’ve gotten a few “misses” but I’ve also gotten a few wines that are seriously good. It’s also really easy to skip months.

10. Can anyone recommend a hair salon in the LA area doing outdoor cuts?

11. Update from yesterday:

    Talked to DH after work and explained how I was worried about him. Turns out he had made his first appointment with a therapist earlier that day because he noticed he was feeling depressed. He got a bit cranky that I was treating it with eggshells (“if you thought I had a broken hip would you have approached it this way”). He hadn’t noticed he was taking it out on me when he was feeling down and promised to pay better attention to that and try not to. He doesn’t want to try medication just yet but is open to maybe talking about it if things don’t get better. I know one conversation doesn’t fix everything – but I’m feeling cautiously optimistic.

    Thank you to everyone who told me to use my words!

    1. This is a great start!

    2. I’m so glad to hear it!

    3. That’s awesome!
       Also — there is a lot of stigma around med use that draws on concerns about addiction from the 80s. If it comes time to talk meds, myth busting about new gen SSRI s might help.

12. Since this group seems pretty experienced with mental health: does anyone know how to screen for therapists who will treat depression without medication, other than just cold-calling and asking them? Is there a term for that approach?

    I have a relative who is severely depressed, partly due to being in the early stages of organ failure. His specialist has vetoed the use of psychiatric medication, due to the strain on the body.

    1. You don’t need to do this actually! Psychologists do not prescribe medication, any therapist likely has plenty of patients not taking it. They might want to have a discussion about it, but if the answer is “I have a complicated medical situation and my doctors say I can’t” they’ll be able to work with that.

       1. +1

       2. My therapist is a clinical psychologist and does not prescribe medications. In my 20+ years of therapy, I’ve never had a therapist prescibe medication for me. I do all of that through my GP.

    2. Most therapists aren’t able to prescribe meds (they’d need a psychiatry degree, and most psychiatrists don’t offer talk therapy, though there are some who do). So finding a therapist who doesn’t rely on medication should be easy. You may still want to find one who is experienced with serious illnesses; sometimes support groups are good sources of recommendations.

    3. Thanks all, I was using “therapist” as a catch-all phrase for psychiatrists, psychologists, and the like. Didn’t realize there was so much difference among them; appreciate the info.

       1. Also, does your relative already go to a major medical center for their issue?

          If so, check to see if they have a Palliative Care department. They will have / know of therapists/counselors/social workers/psychiatrists who work with patients with chronic diseases, many of which are life limiting. You could call them and ask who they recommend.

          My Mom had advanced cancer and her therapist was also a psychiatrist, which was great.

13. Has anyone switched from using liquid rogaine to the foam version, or vice versa, and found that it works better? I’ve been using the liquid version for about 5 months and I’m not seeing much change (except a ton of hair fell out in the first month or two), and it’s causing scalp itch, but I’m wondering if people have had better results on the foam version. Fwiw I’m using the men’s 5% once a day. Thanks.

    1. Following. Anecdotally when I try to research this topic it seems like the foam is more possible, but I do not know why.

    2. I actually ordered the women’s foam and am waiting for it to arrive, so I’ll report on the efficacy either way once enough time has elapsed.

       1. Yes, please report back – I would love to know if the foam works for you.

14. How long do you give a workout program or eating program until you decide it’s not working for you? I’m 45, have 50-75 lbs to lose, keep losing and regaining the same 2 pounds despite doing what I should. Is there a subreddit or something that would be helpful here?

    1. “loseit” is the best sub, IMO. I subscribe to several, but that’s a good starting point.

       1. +1 to loseit. I also like 1200isplenty for meal inspiration, even though I eat more than that even when I’m trying to lose weight.

          1. There’s also a 1500isplenty!

    2. Generally, weight loss is calories in vs. calories out. Track your calories on an app like My Fitness Pal and compare to an online calculator that’s uses the Mifflin St Jeor Equation to estimate calories burned per day. Consistently create a deficit and you will lose weight.

    3. I’ve liked r/xxfitness ‘s FAQs as a starting point. Anon at 11:39 is right, weight loss is calories in vs. calories out and you need to be tracking them consistently to lose weight and see progress. Also, the 2 lbs might just be water weight or hormones.

    4. You may need to involve your doctor if you haven’t. Not every approach to weight loss is medically backed. You’ll be fighting an uphill battle if your A1C or thyroid is off, for example.

    5. I recently lost 30 lbs. i had been trying for a few years but nothing stuck. I hate dieting. I don’t exercise, though I am fairly active. Weight watchers was the only thing that worked.

15. If you had/have an underlying condition (cardiac) and can get yourself a vaccine appt for April, would you just let that lie and keep hibernating? I think this is a fine approach. My parents OTOH are like nooo you need to keep searching that’s too far. Thing is I’m exhausted. I keep getting up at 6 am for the few retail stores and never get the appointments. I spent like 4 hours last night after work competing for appointments at various mega site websites — only to find April. My health system/cardiology practice says they’re going thru the state approval process now but the state tells them it’ll be about a month; so if they get approved in mid March, by the time I get an appointment — I’m thinking April. Thing is I can’t focus on work, need to study for a licensing exam and I can’t do that with the constant – omg this place opens appointments at 6 am or 6 pm. This is on the 95 corridor where vaccine demand is huge and will remain so despite all the predictions of oh my Apr/May anyone can walk in anywhere and get one; I think that demand softening will/is happening in other places but I don’t see it in the northeastern metro areas. Any harm in taking a break from this and seeing if anything opens in March and if not sticking with April?

    1. Nope!

    2. April’s not very far away, if you have the appointment then keep your appointment.

    3. Are you able to WFH and use only curbside pickup until April? Honestly, the way things are going I think you are incredibly lucky even to have a confirmed appointment for April.

    4. I’m not high risk but have one in my household and we would be ecstatic to have an April appointment. We are hoping instead for August or September, but think the reality could be closer to year-end. And this is in a state doing a decent job with vaccine distribution compared to others.

       We are all able to WFH until vaccinated, so although waiting is a drag it’s not a risk for us to wait until whenever to get our shots.

    5. The way this is going, I think most high risk people will be vaccinated March-May, even though they opened eligibility to high risk in my state (Va) effectively no one who is high risk under 65 is being scheduled because of the back log of seniors. Va has said it’ll move thru high risk in March-Apr and with the northern Va area being so densely populated and slower than the rest of the state due to demand, I’d say it takes into May/early June. So yeah I think April is fine. Maybe take a break unless/until you hear – oh a new mega site or lots of people have gotten appts recently and then log on again and try for a few days, otherwise keep April.

       Or you could dedicate finite time to this — like if a certain place opens appts daily at x time, check that daily and that’s it; don’t go down the rabbit hole of every single site if you don’t have time and are exhausted.

    6. You’re a grown adult, not their dependent. It’s not their decision, it’s yours, and I agree April is not a long way off.

       1. Relax, she was just explaining what prompted her to rethink her decision making.

    7. Opposite issue but it took my dad 3 minutes to get an appt. I harassed him into looking on a Friday night because I knew a new mega site in his area was opening and would have appts. He was like nah I’ll do it tomorrow morning after my 10 am coffee. I nagged him to look on and look then. He did. Turns out they were reserving earlier spots for 75+ even though 65+ had been called. He got an appt within 10 days in late Jan. Easy breezy, 2 min of effort. Since then he thinks oh when it’s your turn the place will reach out, until then there’s nothing to do; Uh dad the place did NOT reach out, I did HOURS of work to find when the mega site 3 min from you was opening. Point is senior citizens don’t have the best grasp of how much work goes into things. So yeah their opinion that April is too late is irrelevant unless they are willing to get up at 6 and stay up until midnight searching so you can focus on work and your test. Let me guess that idea would be met with – oh April isn’t far . . . .

    8. Can you reserve the April appt but keep looking at your own pace in case something sooner opens up? This is what I would do but I know some people just find the process of looking stressful so YMMV.

16. I’ve been pursuing some serotonin boosts via targeted wardrobe updates, so here’s a low-stakes question for Friday…do we think Chelsea boots will still be the go-to boot option next year?

    If so, any favorite options? Thursday has been following me around Instagram and looks promising. $175 max budget.

    1. Thursday has also been following me around and I’m tempted, but I’m afraid they will look cheap in person. Would love to hear any reports from those who have actually tried them.

       1. I have the Legend boot from Thursday and absolutely love them. They are the nicest boots I own. I also tried on the Duchess and liked Legend better. Legend is chunkier and I took 1/2 size up from my usual size. Duchess is a little more streamlined and I wished I had ordered a full size up.

          1. Oh this is perfect, since the Legends were the ones I had my eye on.

    2. I love my Thursday Chelsea boots and get lots of compliments on them! Including from friends with great shoe game. I have a beautiful dark brown color that I got on sale because of “flaws” that for the life of us we can’t find. I also have black Thursday lace ups that i love. I get fewer compliments on those because they’re more my style than in style, but they have held up amazingly to my long walking commute.

       1. …well, erstwhile long walking commute.

          1. Yeah, it does seem a little … ridiculous? to be buying a new pair of boots right now, when I only leave my house to walk the dog or go to the grocery store. But here I am, clutching at what scraps of joy I can find…

       2. Thank you! The lace-ups are really cute too.

17. I’ve bought some linen clothes via etsy and other small shops (based in Lithuania, I’m in the UK) but haven’t taken the plunge on linen bedding. Anyone have a retailer they recommend? Our bedroom is so beige and I don’t have it in me to take down the wallpaper and paint in the midst of a pandemic, but thought some bright bedding might help.

    1. John Lewis has some since y’all brexited

    2. I love Rough Linen – but they are US based and I’m not sure of their UK shipping.

    3. H&M and Ikea both have decent linen bedding, and I’m pretty sure my best linen sheets are from M&S.

    4. What better time to take down the wall paper and paint than the middle of a pandemic?

       1. Pre-kids, absolutely, but 2 jobs + no childcare = a recipe for disaster and possibly marital discord :) The entire house is wallpapered, and I’m contemplating putting up with it for a few more years and then paying someone to do the whole thing while we decamp to my parents.

    5. Not sure if any of the colors are bright enough for you, but I have the Belgian Flax Linen Diamond Quilt from Pottery Barn on Senior Attorney’s recommendation for my summer bedding and I love it.

18. Any opinions on Billie razors?

    1. I think they’re better than your average drugstore razor. Been a subscriber for a couple years now and have no complaints.

    2. I use flamingo (similar concept) and I like but don’t love.

    3. The blade comes detached while I’m using it sometimes, which is annoying. But I love the magnetic shower mount so much that I deal with it. No idea why no other razors have a good way to store in a shower.

    4. I have not tried Billie, but I’ve tried Joy, Flamingo, and every traditional brand available at Target. Joy is my favorite by far. It is Gillette’s answer to the subscription razors but is also available at Walmart. It is very maneuverable, actually works on my knees and ankles, and doesn’t give me a ton of nicks and cuts.

    5. They gave me terrible razor burn. I really wanted to love them, but they didn’t work for me. I went back to the Venus. Also, be warned-they delete critical feedback on social media. I posted a very respectful comment similar to this one on Facebook, and they deleted it.

19. I am on the board of a small non-profit which pre-pandemic provided gardening (literal), horticultual amd ecological conferences, plant exchanges, private and public garden visits etc. to a couple of hundred members. All for a small annual fee which provides acvess to all of this plus discounts at garden centers, etc. through sponsors.
    Our activities largely stopped during the pandemic because of the age and vulnerability of most of our member base. I have been trying to think of new ways to engage and provide services, but also how we can attract more and younger members.
    What would make you join an organisation like this? What would make you engage during the pandemic (either free or paid) and want to join during or after? Would you want to attend zoom conferences (for a reduced fee) or other online events, what kind? What services or initiatives would you like to see?

    1. An “ask a experienced gardener” help line. And your older members might enjoy staffing a once or twice a month help line and could do so remotely.

       1. I like this idea. So many questions about our garden. So many confusing things on the internet.

       2. Yes, this would be amazing. Doubly so if it could be an online chat instead of a phone so I could send pictures of “what’s this funky thing growing on my quince” or “what is this bug eating my tomatoes and how do I get rid of it”?

       3. I think most areas have staffed master gardener hotlines in the US, to be honest. Maybe they could partner with them.

    2. I think you could still do some outdoor distanced seed swapping events and the similar, to be honest. Even if you don’t want to hold an event, you could maybe have people drop stuff off and swap it and send it back out like a surprise seed exchange. I’ve also attended a couple zoom presentations on gardening since the pandemic started and enjoyed them.

    3. I’m not sure from your post as to whether your organization has an actual, dedicated garden space that you are based out of, or if you just offer visits to other local gardens. In any case, I have a membership to a local historic house and gardens, with the gardens being the big draw. Throughout the pandemic they have continued to offer outdoor events with limited attendance in the gardens, such as yoga, sunset concerts, volunteer gardening days, and a pickle making class. I would consider myself to be on the younger end of their demographic (mid-30s) and I mainly joined for the outdoor yoga, but the other things are nice as well. If your organization doesn’t have its own space, maybe you can set something up with some of your partners to have things like this? In my case, the gardens are really large and you can really spread out so I have felt fine going to the classes.

    4. Seasonal information about the place I live would be interesting. Things like what to sow this month, what to plant, what to look out for in local parks (where safe walks are possible). Maybe a plant or seed subscription, garden center delivery discount.

       I would love the mentor idea of experienced gardeners answering questions or demonstrating good technique. (An example: my mind was blown – like HOW had I not known this – when I saw a video suggesting that when planting several thing together in a big pot, take the plants out of their pots and “plant” the pots so that the soil is tightly packed around perfect pot sized holes, and then remove pots and add plants in their holes.)

    5. If you partner with garden centers perhaps you could do some sort of online plant delivery service, or do some sort of deal where they get early access to a store’s selection. It’s looking like there may be another big shortage of seeds and plants like last year.

20. Disclaimer: Not looking for medical advice, but maybe someone has experienced something similar?

    I commented about a year ago about a weird painful breast lump palpable towards the chest bone/sternum during certain times of my menstrual cycle (mostly a few days before my period, tended to go away within two weeks, towards ovulation). Symptoms are best described as tension and shooting pains quite similar to clogged milked ducts while breastfeeding – but I stopped breastfeeding 2.5 years ago.
    A year ago, I had a diagnostic 3D mammogram and ultrasound, both coming back with completely normal morphology. In October, I had another breast exam as part of my annual checkup, doctor felt nothing at all (and they were very thorough).

    Over Christmas/New Years, I had a feeling that the lump didn’t really go away anymore with my cycle, and seemed to be painful for a couple weeks. I had increased my workout routine over the holidays so one guess was that wearing a tight sports bra more often might have compressed the tissue. I eased on the workouts and bra-wearing, now after 6 weeks, it’s pretty much gone again.

    This makes me crazy, as every time it becomes palpable and painful again, I freak out and worry whether anything dangerous is going on. I’m 39, no significant breast cancer history in my family (my mom was diagnosed at age 50 which is just the cut-off to call something hereditary, no other relatives with breast cancer.)

    I already called my nurse line/doctor describing the symptoms, to see whether I need to have another imaging done, but they recommended I follow regular screenings starting age 40.

    Did anyone experience something like that?

    1. It’s rare but not unknown to have a breast infection even when not breasfeeding.

    2. The next time you feel the lump, try to get an urgent appointment so you can make sure the doctor feels it. I have not experienced something similar, but that would personally give me peace of mind. For what it’s worth, it does sound like its cycle related – while I don’t get lumps, I do go up like half a cup size at the time of the month you are describing due to the increase in progesterone in my body. If you have a small irritation in your chest, the swelling from the hormones might be aggravating it.

       1. I actually did get in with an urgent appointment last year when the lump was painful and palpable, which prompted the mammogram and ultrasound. I made sure my doctor wasn’t thinking I was just imagining it.

          They told me to monitor throughout the cycle, but also to not do breast self exams daily leading up to my period, because breasts are tender/denser in the second half of the cycle, and the general advice is to check after your period when the tissue is soft.

          I just freaked out when over the holidays the lump wouldn’t really go away for a few weeks. And now it’s gone. Weird.

    3. I don’t feel a specific lump but I do get the shooing pains on some sort of a cycle, and they do feel just like clogged duct pains from when I breastfed. Like you, I’ve had several mammograms since it started. I’ve also talked to my OB who said perimenopausal breasts can be like teenage breasts and have all kinds of pain, tenderness, etc.

       At one of my mammograms I got a call back for an abnormality and upon closer inspection it turned out to be a fluid filled cyst, which they could tell was not solid with the 3D mammogram and an ultrasound. We just kept an eye on it and it resolved in 6 months. It was right in the area where I get the shooting pains.

       I still think you should continue to follow up with your doctors about this because an actual lump is nothing to ignore. Just a suggestion from my experience that it could be a cyst.

    4. Have you been correctly measured and fitted for bras, since you mention that as being a possible culprit? I thought I was a 38D, turns out I’m actually a 30F. Big difference, lots of chafing and strain in the wrong size.

    5. Your mom should get tested. Women who get breast cancer at a younger age are more likely to have the gene for it than women who get diagnosed at an older age. However, this is not some “you got it at 49, so it’s genetic” or “you got it at 51, so it’s not.” She has the gene or she doesn’t, and that’s something to figure out.

       It sounds like you have fibrocystic breast disease. Cut caffeine, radically increase water intake, increase fiber (30 grams a day), and massage.

       1. My mom’s tumor was tested. Brca gene negative. She knows I had this problem so that was the first thing she told me.

    6. For the posters who have said that their breasts are sore during certain times of their cycle, try Seronol (bee pollen). It was suggested by my OB/GYN and it has completely eradicated the soreness/moodiness that used to occur about a week or so before my period. Available on Amazon. Best OTC medicine I’ve ever tried.

21. Hoping for some advice on in-laws visiting when our baby arrives.

    We are expecting our first baby soon and have not seen anyone other than me going to my doctor due to Covid pretty much this entire pregnancy – not getting sick has been pretty much my only mandate from my doctor. We live in Chicago. My mom (retired) has a house nearby and came back into town two weeks ago and has self-quarantined since (and been tested) in anticipation of joining our bubble before the baby arrives. She is also getting her first dose of the vaccine this weekend (yay!) My mom is extremely helpful in situations like this — this is not her first grandchild and will do the things I think you want when you are first-time parents trying to figure out a newborn – making sure we have food, that our house is tidy, and that we have clean laundry. Essentially, not “Visiting the Baby” so much as tending to the house so that we can rest and figure out a newborn. I also have a comfortable relationship with my mom that if, say, she starts cleaning a marble table with the wrong cleaner, I can tell her what to use or if she gets “too helpful” to the point my husband feels a little pushed aside, that I can yell at her. (My husband has very, very little experience with babies so I understand his worry about this but also have seen my mom grandmother before and again, I am comfortable speaking up if it’s too much.) I can also be upfront about Covid guidelines (and have). My mom lives locally, so would not be staying overnight with us unless I asked her. I have also had my mom take care of me post-surgery; she helped me dress, helped me shower, and changed my sheets when I puked in them so although I’m not super comfortable being naked in front of people, I am in front of my mom.

    My in-laws are a 5-6-hour drive away. I truly do love them; they are very sweet. We tend to get into a dynamic when they visit, though, where we have to entertain them. It’s really my only complaint (so obviously they are great in-laws!) where they look to us about what to do the entire time and have no opinion. I know they want to be helpful but my husband does not have the type of relationship with his parents where he can be assertive with them. (They are the type of family that doesn’t talk about stuff – just so polite.) They want to visit the baby and we want our kids to have a relationship with their grandparents and family, especially bc Covid means this baby will not see pretty much any other people other than whatever small bubble we allow for a while. I think we are encountering the classic struggles new parents face in figuring out who should visit and in what capacity but now with the added layer of Covid.

    My thought is: my in-laws should self-quarantine when we are in the hospital and come visit for a weekend two weeks after the baby is born. My hope is that after two weeks we will have enough of the hang of things to be able to delegate because I don’t think my in-laws will do anything unless it is delegated bc that’s the dynamic my husband has with them. (Whereas my mom cannot sit down when she comes over, she is always cleaning or bringing food over – and since she is local, knows our house better.) I also don’t think I will be comfortable trying to figure out BF-ing in front of my in-laws or dealing with my own post-partum care in front of them in those early days. My husband feels upset that I am favoring my mom and insists his parents want to help and be involved. I know they do and I want them to as well, but the issue is that my husband would never ask or delegate – he won’t even talk about Covid guidelines for whenever they visit because it feels like a demand. (I’m not even sure what exposure they have but my father-in-law was going into the office at one point; my MIL retired.) I don’t feel comfortable making the ‘demands’ or delegating like I would with my mom, and definitely not in the early days. It’s been so long since they have stayed with us due to Covid, that I think my husband has forgotten that he always gets a little cuckoo when they visit bc we have to entertain them the whole time. He has a sibling nearby but because of Covid, we aren’t comfortable with them bouncing back and forth between us or staying in a hotel. One option is that they could stay at my mom’s so it would be less in our space than staying in our house and my mom truly won’t be seeing anyone but us. I think that would be a mitigating factor but I still want some time before we have what feels like “Guests” visiting that we have to entertain.

    Any advice on navigating? My in-laws of course have said “whatever you guys want but we do want to see the baby.” Please be kind, pregnancy in a pandemic has been hard — for both me and my husband.

    1. I think your husband is viewing this as the baby is 50/50 so grandparents should have 50/50 access. What he’s forgetting is that it’s you who is giving birth, you who are learning to breastfeed, and you who will need help and care after the baby is born. You get to choose who helps you (again, this is about you and not the baby) during this period. It’s very typical that the first round of help would be whomever the birthing mother feels comfortable with.

       I was able to hold relatives off in non-COVID times for three weeks, and I can tell you that by the three week mark I had started to feel more like myself. Sleep deprived, sure, but not oozing and leaking and crying all the time. So that is my suggestion. They can wait three weeks.

       And remind your husband that he is not giving birth and to try to be a bit more on your team than on his parents’.

    2. I don’t think 2 weeks is unreasonable. My parents came to visit like 2 days after my third was born and it was absolutely too soon. I was a hot mess and just wanted to be alone. But also, if they come earlier (or if they don’t) I think you need to work out your asks in advance with your husband and he needs to make them, and stick to them. If not, they just have to wait.

    3. Consider your husband’s feelings here, because you won’t need your mom nearly as much as you think (as long as you don’t have a c-section). She can come by every day and do a quick load of laundry and empty the dishwasher. Either she or you can order food for delivery. Almost everyone lets the nonessential housekeeping go post-birth, so no one should be thinking about cleaning a marble table, especially since you don’t have other little kids running around making messes.

       I think you should not delay the in-laws seeing the baby unnecessarily if your mother will be seeing the baby every day. It’s just common courtesy, especially given that they are nice, non-toxic people. Maybe they are smart enough to figure out you won’t have the ability to entertain them now that you have a newborn – I’d seriously consider giving this a chance, even if it is just one visit in the early weeks.

       1. This seems a very 1950s take – put your husband’s needs over your own. Common courtesy is not more important than mother’s health, please don’t give this advice to anyone else, it’s insulting. Would you want to host overnight guests that you’re forced to entertain two-weeks post partum even in normal times? This is a MIL, OP will be guilted into making the house “nice” for them and keeping them company with a husband who she admits is not helpful and gets crabby when they visit.

          1. +1 – lol. I also like that none of the advice in paragraph 1 includes delegating any duties to husband. OP’s mom can come do chores and either OP or her mom can order food, but husband does nothing. Agree, don’t share this advice with anyone else.

          2. +1 the whole take was a gross time travel into times when women couldn’t have autonomy.

             1. Yeah, this kind of made me sick to read. Like one of those good wife manuals from the 1950s.

       2. Have you ever had a baby? Just curious. Common courtesy during a pandemic?

          1. YES. If the in-laws won’t be vaccinated and can’t be truted to actually quarantine, they shouldn’t be around the baby. DH needs to understamd this and communicate it to them.

       3. I’m not really suggesting any more than the OP did (she suggested a weekend visit at 2 weeks). I’m just pointing out that will be meaningful for the grandparents. Also not to worry about cleaning the marble table.

          1. Lol better hope you have daughters because you won’t get to see your own grandkids until they’re weeks or months old

             1. Worrying about cleaning a marble table right after childbirth is the most 1950s thing here, tbh

          2. Nah the husband should be cleaning the marble table, not the op’s mom.

             1. By the way, our dinner table and kitchen countertops are marble – this is not some random marble table in a never-used room. : ) And of course due to Covid, we clean it even more regularly than before given that we eat all our meals there!

                Even with my mom knowing a lot about our house, there are still some of those house-specific things all homes have like that this pan gets cleaned with this brush, not that, which we learned the hard way after ruining one before.

                Anyway, appreciate the advice given here, as always. Thank you!

       4. Her husband’s feelings and in-laws’ feelings are irrelevant, as are her own parents’ feelings. Everyone’s job for the first few weeks is to support the new mother in the way that she decides is most helpful to her. She will be recovering from giving birth, which may include major surgery or painful tearing. She will be sleep-deprived and exhausted. She will be using her body to feed a ravenous monster that never sleeps. Nobody else’s feelings or preferences matter.

          1. Yup. With my first (way pre-covid) we said no visitors for two weeks – not even my parents (who are helpful). I now think that was overkill and we could have used the help – but I would NOT have wanted my ILs around then. So much blood (totally normal). Painful and difficult breastfeeding attempts every two hours. So many tears. No sleep. New dynamic with your spouse. Only 100% supportive ppl around and if you are lucky that your parents fall in that category, they can visit. Babies can be really, really hard. If you have even the slightest inkling you will have to lift a finger to host them, your husband must say no. And it seems like they would be house guests, not just stopping by to say hello. Nope nope nope. My ILs were mad at first with our decision but came to visit when baby was 1 month (born 2 weeks early; had bought plane tickets for the two- week mark) and all was forgiven. Even at one month they are still really little!!! They won’t miss anything. (But also don’t post lots of pics of your mom holding the baby.)

             But the covid issues trump all of those. Only if someone did true quarantine + multiple tests + vaccine (if eligible/available) would they get near me , baby, or anyone else in my family.

             1. I have 3 kids and I agree with all of this. Really, the first whole month is a total mess – I was exhausted, sleep-deprived, and had a baby that would not nap unless he was nursing and then woke up whenever I pulled him off of my boob. I never changed out of sweatpants and was leaking b-milk, blood, etc. and going to see the doctor and the lactation consultant, the pediatrician, figuring out why baby was not gaining weight, and decided to b-feed every 2-3 hours, then pump right after that for 10-15 minutes to signal to my boobs to produce more milk, and then crying while making formula to supplement breastmilk for the baby. So, the in-laws are not going to be helpful. Have them come 1 month or later, and during that time, it will be your DH’s responsibility to entertain them, feed them, etc. Also, get a bebe au lait nursing cover thing so that when they come, you can nurse in front of them and not feel like you have to be banished to another room in your own freaking home every time the baby’s hungry.

       5. Um. I recommend the opposite of this.

    4. I have a 7 month old and went through a similar dynamic. My parents are local and helpful. In-laws are about 20 hour drive or 2.5 hour flight. In-laws drove down when my son was about 3 months and stayed in our home for a week. Love my in-laws and their time with him was great, but it was so stressful for me. They were not especially helpful with the baby. Just wanted to snuggle and then hand him off to me of DH when he was fussing or needed a bottle or change. If they had come at 2 weeks, I might have lost it on them. 2 weeks for me was really the thick of it with the fog clearing around 6 weeks and getting progressively better each week. I distinctly remember when he was 10 days old, and I angrily decided I was going to stop nursing because I was so frustrated. I didn’t stop until 4ish months, but I was struggling so much then.
       Because your in-laws are a closer drive, I think one weekend is a good short term compromise and they can stay longer when baby is a bit older. I would suggest you have them not stay in your home for their sake and yours. Baby will still be up at all hours and keep them up probably. Also you will need space to decompress.
       Finally, have a serious talk with your husband about his role while his parents are in town. He needs to be the one “hosting” and running interference if you are tired or need a break.
       There are lots of newer moms on the mom’s site that might have thoughts on what worked for them.

       1. YES on the husband’s role with his own parents. Even during normal times I feel like it works best if each partner takes the lead on dealing with their own parents. But when you’re a mom of a newborn you need your husband/partner to step up and be your first line of defense. There should be zero expectation that you have to wait on your in-laws in any way, OP. If they need to be waited on, their son should do 100% of that.

    5. You’re letting guilt lead your decision-making here. Your husband needs a reality check.
       Your mother will be vaccinated and is helpful. You want her by your side after kid is born. In-laws will basically be overnight guests that you’re forced to entertain two weeks post-partum and not vaccinated (so Covid exposure to baby because all they’ll want to do is hold baby and most people don’t quarantine perfectly – I’ve seen videos of infants with Covid and it’s horrible). I think both you and your husband underestimate how much you won’t be ready to host guests two weeks post partum – you’ll be tired, bleeding, a walking milk machine, still in pain. Your husband isn’t giving birth, he has no right to insist his parents be “involved” when it will only burden you. Decide when you’ll be ready for them after the baby is born.

       1. +1

    6. I would also add, you don’t even know if your in laws will quarantine for COVID? Thats BS. Your husband needs to grow a pair, seriously. He’s more concerned about not being demanding with them than he is about protecting his wife and newborn from COVID.

       Honestly other than being a sp3rn donor, what is he good for?

       1. Harsh but tbh I wonder that about a lot of men nowadays.

       2. Yeah this. I’m team let them come earlier. But then in return your husband has to talk to them seriously about covid. I find it disturbing he doesn’t see that.

       3. OP here. I think they would do whatever is asked of them, but my husband just has never had a dynamic of making those kinds of demands. It’s just new for their family. He of course cares about keeping us all safe and he will have to be assertive with them before they see us – whenever that is. I am comfortable interrogating my mom about her exposure and habits, but not everyone is and that’s not the relationship that his family has. He will have to speak up; I was just illustrating the dynamic on how the family broaches topics. Covid has been hard for him, too, and we both are really sad that our families cannot be passing the baby around, obsessing over him. I don’t know when baby will meet our siblings, but that is a worry for another time.

          1. Once your husband is a parent, he’s going to have to step up and assert himself with his parents over and over again. If they babysit, he’s going to have to enforce back to sleep and nothing in the crib. Proper car seat usage. Etc.

             1. Yep, this. There are going to be lots of things that he’s going to need to get over himself for. This is a good place to start. Do you know whether they have received other vaccinations such as the TDAP? Our pediatrician emphasized that for the first 8 weeks, anyone around the baby should have received it. That would be a good place to start the conversation.

          2. My DH is like this with his parents whereas i have no issue being assertive with mine. I had a scheduled c section bc i was pregnant with twins and our plan then was if we had boys for my parents to come for a week and then overlap with my inlaws for 24-48 hours for a bris (we’re Jewish), then for my parents to leave and inlaws to stay and then for my parents to come back and my inlaws to come back (everyone lives a flight away)….this plan went completely out the window when i had to deliver early. Instead my parents came 48 hours after i delivered while i was still in the hospital and stayed for four days and then my in-laws came for a few days. I was also very adamant that i wanted my parents first but we had a baby in the nicu and i had a scary delivery so i think it was comforting for DH to see his parents sooner

    7. Tell your husband his parents can absolutely come visit earlier just as soon as he commits to you to stepping up! If he wants them to visit he needs to be supportive. If not, they can come in 2 weeks.

       1. Agree with this. Also, just throwing out there as someone whose own mother is deceased, when my first baby was born, my MIL came to visit right away. She was actually the day before, because I had a planned inducement. Although I was super worried about all the same issues you are, I let her come because…well, I had no one else other than my husband, and we needed the help. It worked out well- she cooked, cleaned and took the baby for hours during the night so my husband and I could sleep. Not sure how old your in-laws are, but my MIL was only in her early 50s at the time, so her young age probably helped). She’s definitely not perfect, but she stepped up at that time and I was very glad to have her. YMMV. Good luck.

    8. Pre-Covid and many years ago, my mother-in-law invited herself to come and stay at my house to visit her new grandchild. I was new to the whole mothering thing, and underestimated how exhausted and stressed I would be, so I didn’t object. She came to stay for a week a month after baby’s arrival. She did not change a diaper, rock baby, provide any help at all. She literally expected breakfast in bed, and that her dishes would be cleared. My husband was back at work and traveling, so he was not around to solve this. I am not saying your in-laws would be this extreme, but you cannot be responsible for occupying and feeding your in-laws while adjusting to new parenthood. Don’t exclude them completely, but it is fine to favor your mother who will help you instead of adding to your load. In other words, don’t be me. I learned and there was no repeat with our next two kids.

    9. 1) I think two weeks is early and I agree with the commenters who said the fog isn’t cleared by then. For a v-delivery the physical recovery time is 4-6 weeks and for a c-section more like 8 weeks. This means, you will be bleeding, uncomfortable, painful breasts, trying to breastfeed, sleep deprived etc. So I suggest you push the inlaws visit out to the 4 week mark so that you feel a little less frazzled and you are in a better routine with baby care and your own pain management.
       2) Re husband’s family politeness culture and your and his roles. I agree with the commenters who say he should take the lead. My husband’s family has a similar culture and DH has been firm about things when it matters to me. At the same time, I have also always been my direct self and so I will frequently ask things and set the tone a bit myself, rather than waiting for DH to do it. For example, if inlaws are visiting and they don’t say exactly when the end-date of the visit is, I will ask rather than wait for DH to think about how to couch it in roundabout terms. I don’t get into arguments, and if someone needs to draw the line will have DH do it, but I communicate directly in a toned-down, polite version of my communication with my own parents.
       3) In your situation, I would have a talk about daily routines early on to try and set expectations or delegate things for them to do. For example, with my in-laws I have said things like “would be good if you rock the baby to sleep for her morning nap everyday, that way I can go shower and have a rest myself”. I’ve also asked them to make puree babyfood (too early for you) or delegated some tasks that I think will work well. Maybe take the baby for a walk in the stroller each evening or whatever. That way you will get a break and both they and the baby will hopefully be out of your hair for a bit.
       4) Last resort, perhaps they can stay at a hotel if this will work in your family dynamics (wouldn’t in mine). That will naturally limit the duration of the visit (who wants to pay for 10 days hotel) but also give you a bit of a break at night. This may lead them to eat some of their meals on their own too. If not, talk to them ahead of time about what the plan is for meals etc (“We may be too frazzled with the baby to eat at regular mealtimes, want to make sure you have what you need..”).

       Signed, Indian-American with 2 kids where the culture is to have parents stay with you for extended periods when grandkids are in play.

    10. I was most comfortable with my mum and she flew to be with me when I gave birth both times. Inlaws flew over when baby was 3m old. Husband was totally onboard.

        And yes, I’m South Asian and quite horrified that anyone would think that post partum mums don’t really need much support absent a C section, like the 1950s stepford wife above suggests.
        Do what you need to do for yourself. Husband and inlaws need to suck it up, unless they’re giving birth. At this time, you don’t even know if you’ll have an “uncomplicated” birth. All births are stressful, in different ways. Let’s be kind to the mum.

22. A visit after two weeks from the in laws seems extremely reasonable to me – honestly just tell them directly even if it’s awkward and your husband won’t do it. Postpartum I feel like the hormone dump made me unfairly annoyed by my in laws and I raged while they visited (and two weeks is still within that window but is at least further out). If you want to wait a month, wait a month.

    If your husband is afraid of feeling pushed aside, it may be best to have your mom wait to do much visiting until you guys at least get your feet under you. Do a visit for an hour vs visit for a day. You can face time the in laws for a virtual visit.

    1. This. My (local) parents came for a few hours every day for the first week and it was a dream. Tons of help but also tons of bonding time just the three of us.

23. Who is this guy? Watch this channel https://youtu.be/W0ezw7oppFY

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