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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Signature Fit Navy Pinstripe Pencil Skirt

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. stripey-pencil-skirt-under-50Happy Friday everyone! This striped navy pencil skirt looks like the perfect way to add a touch of pattern and visual texture to an outfit. (There is a matching jacket available, but both pieces together are a bit much for me.) Fun question: what's your favorite affordable pencil skirt these days? (Readers used to looove the Halogen pencil skirt with welt pockets, but Nordstrom changed the design several years ago.) The pictured skirt comes in sizes 0-18, as well as petite and tall sizes; it's on sale now for $38.46. 7th Avenue Design Studio Navy Pinstripe Pencil Skirt This stripey plus-size skirt from Eloquii is similar. Feel like drooling? This $725 skirt is nice. Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-all)

Sales of note for 3/26/25:

  • Nordstrom – 15% off beauty (ends 3/30) + Nordy Club members earn 3X the points!
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale + additional 20% off + 30% off your purchase
  • Banana Republic Factory – Friends & Family Event: 50% off purchase + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 50% off select styles + extra 50% off all sale
  • J.Crew – 30% off tops, tees, dresses, accessories, sale styles + warm-weather styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Shorts under $30 + extra 60% off clearance + up to 60% off everything
  • M.M.LaFleur – 25% off travel favorites + use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – $64.50 spring cardigans + BOGO 50% off everything else

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

356 Comments

    1. I freaking love bumble and bumble. I use their coconut shampoo, their Sunday clarifying shampoo, and the new salt spray (it doesn’t make my hair crunchy and it smells good, although other than that, I don’t think it does anything). I’m going to try this new wash stuff! My hair is almost to my waist, and I use a ton of conditioner usually–I go through conditioner at twice the rate of shampoo, almost exactly, so this might save me money.

      1. What kind of hair type do you have? I have thin curly Caucasian hair so I had expected the Devacurl stuff to work for me. I haven’t tried Bumble and Bumble but I’ve heard good things. Currently using more dry shampoo than I’d like because washing/drying is hard on my hair so looking to change up my routine.

        1. One of my friends swears by 2-in-1 shampoo/conditioner. She says everything else weighs her hair down too much – some curly hair shampoos and conditioners are really heavy.

    2. Interesting. A few years ago I believe this same man, I know it was someone connected to/departed from Bumble & Bumble, started a line that sounds similar to this. But it was a royal blue bottle, I forget what it is called. I hated it. But, I have kept the bottle in my guest shower on the off chance that someone needs “something” for their hair and they don’t want to use any of the hotel samples I’ve saved. It was the same kind of gimmick, no “shampoo.” It doesn’t suds, and never really left my hair feeling…washed. I only shampoo my hair every 3-4 days, so I know it wasn’t really an issue of adjusting to a new routine. Anyway, that doesn’t “look” the same as this but it sounds the same. If I remember tonight I’ll come back and post the name of the product–unless anyone else knows what it is!

      1. I guess I should clarify–I didn’t expect it to suds. But it left my hair feeling the same as when I just rinse it with water. And, if that’s how it’s going to feel, I might as well not spend so much on a fancy product and just wash my hair with water.

        1. Thanks. The article says it was “Originally launched in 2013 as Purely Perfect; rebranded, reformulated and re-released in 2015” so it sounds like it was definitely the product you tried and it isn’t a good product based on your review – unless the reformulation made a big difference.

          1. Ah, yes. I just skimmed the article so I missed that. That’s exactly what it was. Notably, after that hair cut when I bought the product, I never saw the salon carrying Purely Perfect again…so they must of not been into it either! Maybe the reformulation was a game-changer…If you want to try it, see if you can’t get it somewhere with an excellent return policy–maybe some salons are better than others? My salon wouldn’t take it back or exchange for a Bumble and Bumble product.

    3. It’s just a cleansing conditioner. There are a lot of them around. Most of them are cheaper and easier to find than this one.

      1. Thanks – would love recommendations if you have any! For my hair type, I think that’s probably what I should be using because Anon at 9:54 is right that lots of curly hair conditioners too heavy for thin hair.

    4. I really like Jessicurl. Devachan didn’t work for me either — just didn’t clean my hair. I use gel, and a “no poo” approach just doesn’t get the excess gel out, much less the sweat etc. Bumble and Bumble I haven’t tried though.

  2. I’ve discovered another downside to open offices. I’m now incredibly worries about how loud I walk!

    2. HA! I walk very loudly and with a purpose and I DGAF about it. Own your powerful walk!!

      1. I walk loudly because the cubicle walls are high enough that it’s hard to see some people walking in the other hallways, so I want cross traffic to be able to know I am coming.

        1. A very helpful benefit. We have the same problem here, although the recently installed mirrors on the ceiling in high-traffic corners so you can look to see if people are coming.

        1. Yes to this, I am super self-conscious about it! I try to walk lightly/more on my toes to avoid it. Our hallways our carpeted, my shoes don’t squeak outside the office.

    4. Another downside: Yesterday in my open office i had to listen to my boss and his boss discuss their prostate health… as well as the prostate health of certain other employees.

      1. This downside may exist in an office with doors as well… somehow yesterday I got dragged into a conversation about older men who have piercings in private areas (by a senior male lawyer)…

    5. Yep, I used to work in an open office and my coworkers made such a big deal out of how loudly and powerfully I walked. They complained they could hear me coming. Too bad, so sad for them.

      1. I have a male co-worker with a private office who always makes a big deal about how loudly I walk. So much so that I usually go out of my way to avoid walking past his office, especially when I’m wearing boots. He complains about the noise my high heels make in courthouse hallways, too.

        My walk is rather loud, but I can’t figure out exactly why. I guess four years of high school marching band won out over my ballet training on the gracefulness front. But the over-the-top complaints mainly help to establish that this dude is a jerk.

        1. Yeah, the only conclusion that I can draw is that people who complain about how loud someone walks are jerks. I have been in the same job for three years (in a private office now, thank the heavens, but there’s plenty of common space we all share that I walk through several times a day), and no one here has every mentioned my supposedly loud walking.

      3. I come purposefully click-click-clicking down the hallway every morning in my high heels. When I broke my ankle last year and had to wear flats for a while, my staff complained that I was sneaking up on them! ;)

    6. Please do NOT worry about this! I guarantee a man wouldn’t (and justifiably so, not just in the ego/assh*le way).

  3. I can’t tell if the stripes on this skirt would be flattering or make my hips look like a gift to the world.

    1. I had the same thought. I think the length is not helpful here with the stripes. This length is stumpifying IMO and that with the combo of the interestingly placed stripes is kind of awkward to me.

      1. The skirt would create a nice downward-pointing arrow if it ended at the knee. I have a skirt with similar paneling and it’s super flattering.

        1. Could probably be tailored to end at the knee. I wonder if it’s lined – tailoring might cost more than the skirt!

      2. I was thinking that this length is horrible, as well. Who is the midi supposed to look good on?? It makes me look shorter and my calves/ankles look wider. So confused.

      3. The midi length is just not good for pencil skirts, in my opinion. Also it drastically shortens my stride, which I find irritating.

    2. Agreed. Midi skirts are really tough to pull off. This would look much better if it ended right below the knee.

  4. Shopping help – despite thinking yesterday’s grandma heels are hideous, I do like some block heel styles. Specifically, a tall block heel with a t-strap. Does anyone have any reasonably priced suggestions in this style? I quickly browsed Nine West yesterday, but didn’t see anything that was quite what I am looking for.

    TIA!

    2. Seychelles usually have at least a couple of pairs that fit this description, and I find them really comfortable.

    3. Payless has a surprisingly cute pair of t-straps with a rounded block heel. They’re called Haddie.

    5. Thanks all. I am totally checked out today after a brutal work week, so I went and browsed Nordstrom as well. Some nice options that I actually like!

    6. Not a T-strap, but the Louise et Cie mary jane pumps (available at N o r d s t r o m) have a nice block heel.

    7. A few years ago I got a pair of beautiful, architectural tall block heels from United Nude. Pretty much my favorite shoes ever

  5. Has anyone purchased a mattress from Tuft and Needle? The reviews seems to be genuinely better than Casper, cocoon, Leesa etc.

    Thinking of pulling the trigger this weekend. I’ve been on a hand me down guest mattress for 10 years now.

    1. We love our Tuft and Needle mattress. The mattress we had before it was a $5k similar type mattress that we loved but was getting worn. I was super impressed with the quality, despite being worried about the low price. Do it, your sleep will thank you.

    2. We have a Leesa – incredibly happy with it, EXCEPT that my SO refuses to use anything other than a heavy duvet, and it’s definitely warmer than a regular mattress. T&N is supposed to have redone their foam blends to address the heat issue, but when we got the Leesa, it had the best reviews regarding heat, so I’m skeptical.

    3. We did a test of all the mail-order mattresses (many charities got mattress donations because of us) and settled on the Casper. It was the most comfortable for us. It is a little hot, but we only sleep with a thin blanket, so it works for us.

      The T&N was super hot, and it also gave my DH a neckache. He’s a restless sleeper, so doesn’t sleep in one position, but still got neckaches. (The Leesa gave ME a backache, but I’m a side sleeper who literally doesn’t move for all 7 hours.)

      They all have good return policies (they’ll arrange pickup for a donation to a charity near you), so my best advice is to order several all at once, and then start narrowing down. Our spare bedroom was overtaken by giant mattresses for a month, but usually we could tell within 2-4 nights if we didn’t like one, and then arrange to have it donated.

    4. We bought ours off Amazon after trying a friend’s and are very happy with it. It felt the same as the Casper at a fraction of the price.

    5. Have you tried any of the all natural latex matresses? Ours was from a brick and mortar store and SO MUCH cheaper than every other ‘premium’ mattress we’ve had, and also hands down the most comfortable bed I’ve ever ever had.

      1. This what I have and its amazing. Not cheap but not super expensive (I think I paid around 900 for a queen) and its holding up really well after a few years. I’ve had a bunch of people tell me its the comfiest bed they’ve ever been on, my roommate likes it so much that she sneaks in naps on it when I’m not around.

    6. We have a T&N and looooove it. The delivery! The price! But to be fair, it was a bit hard for me so we also bought a memory foam mattress topper from costco (around $150?) and now it is the best bed of all time.

      We rent our place out on airbnb frequently–maybe 2x/month–and without fail, one of the comments we always get is some variation of “the most comfortable bed ever.”

    7. Yes!!! I absolutely love our Tuft & Needle mattress. I have it on a platform bed frame and it is so cozy. However, please keep in mind that it really feels different than a standard mattress and box spring set.

    8. Don’t know if you are still reading but I got a Casper a week ago and really like it. The only problem, I feel like I have to upgrade my pillows and linen to match haha.

  7. I’m not advancing as quickly as I’d like at my company in terms of my title. However, my responsibilities have increased and I’m challenged every day. I enjoy the work and find it interesting. I also love the people. Great team, smart people.

    I have complete autonomy and flexibility (no questions asked if I need to work from home, come in late, etc.). Also, lots of time off and never any issues with my taking all of it.

    But I can’t help comparing myself to others in my industry who are job-hopping and getting fancier titles faster. Am I doing the right thing by staying where I am if I’m mostly happy? How important are title and status? Should I be sacrificing some of the perks I have to “get ahead” (whatever that means)?

    I also think some of those people are more willing to work 80 hours a week consistently (I am definitely not), so I have to keep that in mind…

    1. If your salary is appropriate for your experience level and responsibilities, then no title is worth giving up flexibility and autonomy. To me, if I’m happy with my salary, hours, coworkers and responsibilities, I’m not trading any of those in for a different business card.

      1. +1 Fair compensation for the work I do is what matters most to me. Most titles are bullsh*t anyway. See: Dwight Schrute, Assistant to the Regional Manager.

    2. I think it depends on where you are in your career and where you want to be in five or ten years. What does your ideal career path looks like? I feel a title boost helps only if you’re planning on job-hopping.

      My view – your current situation sounds like a unicorn to me! Autonomy is hugely underrated. And it sounds like your current environment helps bring out your full potential.

      1. +1

        Your current job sounds amazing and seems like a long-term keeper. Of course, we don’t know your salary/finances/personal situation…. but it sounds like an ideal job.

        Change is not always good.

    3. Title and status are not important to me at all. I would be very hesitant to move in your shoes because I think you’re unlikely to find all of: interesting work + nice co-workers + flexibility and autonomy at a new position.

    4. As long as your salary increases in step with the new set of responsibilities, you shouldn’t be worried.
      I took a step down from Principal to Senior [whatever] when I switched companies, but I got more $$ and more flexibility, so the trade-off is painless.

    5. I’d argue that you ARE advancing (more responsibility and autonomy). A title is just words, you are getting experience. That (and appropriate compensation) are more important in my book.

  8. NYC people.

    DH is a teacher and I’m helping him to chaperone a field trip of rural Midwestern high schoolers to NYC. Even though this has been planned for awhile, I JUST learned that I will be responsible for about 6 kids on Sunday 10/23 from about 11 a.m.-6 p.m. A lot of touristy stuff is taken care of in other parts of this trip, so I’m trying to think of something to do with them. I think they will be girls. Budget is an issue (probably $20-30/kid).

    What do you think? (If I had my way I would let them wander and demand text messages every hour, but I’m more free range than is generally acceptable as a field trip chaperone).

    1. Are there any TV Shows that tape then that they would find cool? I think probably not because it’s a Sunday but going to a tv show taping would definitely be a cool thing at that age.

      1. Is Gossip Girl a thing or not for teens now? Maybe there’s a bus tour for that like there is for SATC?

        1. Show ended a couple years back. No, I didn’t watch it obsessively what are you taking about that’s crazy hahahahaha

        2. I went on a Gossip Girl bus tour about 18 months ago at the insistence of my teen daughter. It was AWFUL and she agreed. Unless you like sitting in a bus and having someone point at Central Park and say, “They filmed a scene there,” do not do that!

    2. Eek, definitely don’t let them wander around! on their own! Please!

      I would be prepared with a couple different ideas and then ask them what they’re interested in doing. You might find they want to go shopping or see a movie. Especially after a few days of sight-seeing.

      Maybe the group could do an Instagram/Snapchat photo tour. Basically, look up a few iconic landmarks ahead of time, places that make good photo opportunities for selfies but that might not get covered in the other days, and then spend your time going from one place to the next so the group can get lots of good instagram shots.

      1. Eek, definitely don’t let them wander around! on their own! Please!

        Can I ask why you feel so strongly about that? She said they are in high school – what’s the big deal?

        1. Yeah – I was a midwestern kid who went on a high school trip to NY (now I live here) and we were totally dropped off in the West Village for a few hours and told to do our thing. We browsed at a few stores and got dinner, but it was a blast not to be told what to do. You could also drop the kids off at Central Park for awhile.

          1. We used to take the bus into Port Authority in the 1980s. Teens, in groups, are probably fine in midtown. FWIW, the heroin at home may be easier to find then many readers realize, so NYC may not be Big Super Danger (rather: a place they could get lost).

            Pls explain that in the grid, streets are generally east (odd) and west (odd); avenues run north (even) and south (odd) if one-way. That alone may keep them oriented. Off the grid (lower Manhattan, the pointy part of Brooklyn): YMMV.

          2. I’ve chaperoned a few high school field trips in my day, and it’s completely appropriate for a group of juniors/seniors to be left to their own devices for a few hours. Maybe not the whole 11-6 timespan, but lunch as a group followed by say, 2pm-6pm independent exploration would be 100% developmentally appropriate. Give them geographic boundaries, talk about city safety, have a buddy system, and make sure they have charged phones and your cell number, and let them knock themselves out. If I was a high schooler today, I would love free time in somewhere trendy like Williamsburg; or you could check to see where there will be street fairs with food trucks, arts/crafts, etc.

            Answer is totally different for freshmen/sophomores. They need to stay in a group.

        2. I guess because the parents of those kids expect that their kids are going to be chaperoned. And OP has agreed to chaperone. If it was my kid, and I knew they were responsible, I’d be fine with letting them wander around. But without knowing the kids, how responsible they are, etc, I wouldn’t be comfortable letting them wander a major city without being with them. Especially because their parents expect me to be with them. It’s just my personal risk tolerance- what if something happens to one of them?

          1. Also, it was unclear to me whether these were 14/15 year old high schoolers or 17/18 year old high schoolers.

        3. I’m from the midwest and we went to Europe in high school and were dropped off in pretty big cities with the instructions no getting on public transportation, no leaving the city, lunch on your own, meet at the glochenspiel at 4:30, etc for most of the day. I was 15 the first trip, everyone was fine.

          1. I took a similar trip to England and Ireland when I was 15. I got into a sticky situation in London. Changed me forever. FWIW, I’m from North Jersey and was going into NYC, on my own, by the time I was 13…without issue (1992ish)

        4. School districts now are so afraid of litigation that I’m willing to bet there’s no way OP will be allowed to let them wander. I agree the risks are low, but if *anything* happens (and parents can complain about even the smallest things), the school is in a world of trouble and future trips will likely be cancelled.

    3. Chelsea Market and then walk to high line or walk over to 6th Ave and to Greenwich Village?

      Or The Angelika for a movie?

      1. If they’ve seen Sully or the 9/11 boatlift movie, they might like to go on a NY Waterway Ferry. It is really stunning in the hour before sunset.

      2. I was thinking the High Line too. There is fancy shopping in the meatpacking district nearby that could be fun. For actual shopping, SoHo or 5th Ave would be better. Or Century 21?

        If you aren’t going to Brooklyn otherwise, you could walk the Brooklyn Bridge then get pizza in Dumbo (tip: if you don’t want to stand in line and pay $$$ at the competing famous pizza places nearby, Front Street Pizza at the corner of Washington and Front St has really great cheap slices and good service) and walk around in the park there. Then walk up to Brooklyn Heights to walk around there or take the F train a couple stops to shop in Cobble Hill/Carroll Gardens. Or you could catch the Water Taxi or Ferry somewhere from Fulton Ferry Landing in Brooklyn Bridge Park.

    4. Ask them if there is anything they want to do, then do that. And if not, museum and Central Park.

    5. My daughter went on a school trip to NYC and her teachers allowed them a couple of hours to shop by themselves. I have never been to NYC, so I don’t know exactly where they were, but I know she went to a Nike store, H and M, Forever 21. They had to stay within a certain area, stay with together with their group, and be back at a certain time.

    6. Some cool semi touristy things that are free might be walking the Brooklyn Bridge, taking the Staten Island Ferry, the Roosevelt Island Tram (cost of a Metrocard), or visiting the Highline.

    7. It’s a trek, but Bronx Zoo?
      Also, Prospect Park + Botanic Garden + Brooklyn Museum- all right next to each other, and there are steep discounts for students at the latter two. The Brooklyn Botanic Garden isn’t in full bloom now but there’s a wonderful conservatory. You can let them go “free range” within each location for a set amount of time before moving onto the next one, so they have some freedom but also total safety.

      1. I would not let kids go free range at the Bronx Zoo. It borders on some rough neighborhoods.

    8. Start with Breakfast at Tiffany, let them shop along 5th Avenue for the afternoon, and tell them to meet you at a designated restaurant at 5pm for dinner?

      1. By breakfast at Tiffany, I mean drinking coffee out of a to-go cup a la Breakfast at Tiffany’s.

    9. Depends on what they’ve already done but here are some thoughts:

      – Assuming decent weather, go up to the Cloisters, then lunch/snack in Washington Heights/Harlem/Columbia Area

      – Try to Rush Broadway tickets (might be hard to get everyone into the same show; would need a backup plan)

      – Central Park/Lincoln Center/cookies at Levain Bakery

      – Walk the highline, stop in Chelsea or Meatpacking for food

      – West Village wandering/shopping; hang out in Washington Square Park; see NYU

      – SoHo wandering/shopping – maybe combined with a walk over to Chinatown or Little Italy for food

      – Citibike along the West Side bike path (if it would be okay to be without helmets so long as they stay on the bike path)

      – If you haven’t done so, walk over Brooklyn Bridge from downtown, have pizza in Brooklyn at Grimaldi’s or Julianna’s; hang out in Brooklyn Bridge Park and/or walk the Brooklyn Promenade

      – Tram to Roosevelt Island (though, not sure how long you’d want to spend on Roosevelt Island)

      – Brooklyn wandering/shopping – some combination of Brooklyn Heights/Cobble Hill/Boerum Hill or Fort Greene/Park Slope/Prospect Heights

      – If the weather is decent, take the train out to Coney Island – see the ocean; go on the rides; have a Nathan’s hotdog

      – Subway to Queens (Flushing/Jackson Heights/Astoria) for ethnic food lunch

      – I’ve heard great things about the Tenement Museum, which may not be on the list of big touristy things – then lunch downtown. Combined with the Lower East Side Food Tour?

      – Subway to Brooklyn to wander through Greenwood Cemetery (it is the week before Halloween…).

      – Ice skating (looks like Wollman Rink in Central Park would be open, but you’d would have to confirm)

      – There are actually a lot of free/cheap walking tours of various areas with various themes. Also, I’d check out Time Out NY to see if there are any things going on that weekend that might be fun/appropriate for the group.

      1. Also, I want to agree that I think it would be fine to let them wander around on their own for at least part of that time (with parameters as to where they can go/when they need to check in). NYC on a Sunday afternoon is incredibly safe – if anything, they will be more of a potential annoyance to others (teenagers in groups tend not to pay attention/clog up the sidewalks). Of course, whomever is in charge of your trip may disagree, but at that age (and in the ’90s, when NY wasn’t nearly as safe as it is today) I would take the train into the city with friends and wander.

      2. FYI, Wollman Rink is owned by the Trump organization, for those who are avoiding that brand. Hubs and I went there to skate on a recent trip to NYC and left when we saw the logo.

      3. Please do not allow them to go biking without helmets. I say this as a relatively free-range parent who would be fine letting a junior or senior explore the city without supervision. Helmets for everyone, all the time. If my kid came home from a trip and said that she’d been asked to get on a bike without putting on a helmet, I would be livid.

      4. These are all great ideas. I especially like the tenement museum idea. You can probably have an inexpensive dim sum lunch in Chinatown after and there are many inexpensive walking tour guides in the area.
        You should be within budget & it would be a great afternoon and if you have extra time, you can let them walk around soho/ nolita after or shop on lower Broadway.
        Try to stop by Economy Candy if you go this route.
        Also: NY is super safe.

        1. +1 for the Lower East Side Tenement Museum

          Educational but in a way that I think high schoolers would enjoy

        2. + 100 to Lower East Side Tenement museum and either Katz’s Deli or dim sum, or the Staten Island Ferry

          Suggest no bicycling without helmets or wandering on their own.

    10. Ask them what they want to do, but offer 3-5 choices first. Otherwise you’ll end up with a lot of “I dunno” and there is nothing more annoying than that. That way you can also vet the choices first to make sure they’re appropriate.

    11. I’d vote high line (assuming good weather) then a free range walk around Greenwich village/west village. Good for both genders but fun shopping and magnolia bakery for the girls (also Washington square park for the people watching, plus they’ll be in the NYU zone)

    12. I grew up in NYC. If this is their first visit, I do not think it is a good idea to leave a group of 6 rural Midwestern high schoolers, (probably female, probably not urban savvy) to their own devices in the NYC, even on mid day on a Sunday, without a responsible adult being somewhere in the near vicinity. Limit them to a neighborhood, area or group of stores ,with a designated check in time and park yourself at a centrally located coffee shop or bar if you wish to remain nearly but centrally located.

    13. Dim sum in Chinatown could be fun, especially if they live somewhere without a Chinatown. You could combine that with shopping along Broadway between Canal and Houston.

    14. This reply might be too late for you to get, but please take them to the village! It would be good for
      Them to be exposed to some of the non-touristy stuff too! Union square farmers market, Washington square park for sure! Take them to spin the big black cube by cooper union. Go to the tenement museaum.

    15. BTW, a number of NYC museums are technically “suggested donation” admissions. Some do a better job than others at hiding this, but the list includes the Met, the Natural History Museum, and Brooklyn Museum, off the top of my head.

  9. I’m headed to Tokyo for work in mid-December. I’ll have quite a bit of downtime (about 3 days worth) – anyone have any recommendations?

    1. I loved Asakusa- it’s a gorgeous old shrine with a huge open air market.
      Also, the best food I had in Tokyo was at izakaya and ramenya. I had some sushi, too, but the divey places were amazing.

    2. Omotesando is so nice. It’s a nice walk past a ton of amazing stores and it’s also near the la foret, a cool mall with a lot of neat fashion. eat soft serve, even in december, it’s amazing there. go to the l’occitane cafe in shibuya and people watch on the crossing below. go into an arcade (they are everywhere) and play those crane games. it’s weirdly addicting. walk through yoyogi park.

    3. i live in Tokyo. I’ll give you advice! With three days, you should take a trip out of town. Do you ski? If so, go to a hot spring ski area in the north of Japan. Try Zao Onsen or Shibu Onsen. Or, go to Kyoto for an overnight trip.

      In Tokyo itself, there is so much to do. What are your interests? Traditional or modern? Fancy or down-to-earth? People or things? Looking or participating?

  10. I’m getting my hair colored today but I haven’t washed it since Wednesday am. Should I wash it before I go in?

    I never know what to do in this situation

    1. Would it be gross for someone to touch (is it greasy?)? If yes, I’d say wash it, if no, then I think you’re fine.

    2. I’ve never had my hair colored but don’t they wash it when you get there?

    3. No, don’t wash your hair now. Dirty hair is easier to deal with, and if they want to wash it, they can do so before coloring.

    4. I wouldn’t. The only time that a hairdresser has wanted my hair to be clean before color is when I was doing cap pull-through. Otherwise they told be that dirty was fine especially for highlights (and some though it was gentler on the hair). They can wash it when you get there if they need to.

    5. Don’t wash it. The oils will protect your scalp, and they will shampoo the color out so it will be clean when you’re done.

    6. Echoing the nos. I had mine done Wednesday and it hadn’t been washed since Saturday. My stylist was aware and didn’t wash it.

    7. My stylist insists on me coming in with dirty hair for color. She says the color sticks better, and clean hair is too slick. Last time I went in, I hadn’t washed my hair in a week, and she was thrilled. FWIW the color turned out beautifully.

  11. One of my bffs (college roommate, bridesmaid in my wedding and vice versa) is now pregnant. I’m in NY, she’s in DC. Any suggestions for long distance ways to treat her? She’s from NY and may have a baby shower here, and with both our schedules, its unlikely I’ll be able to visit her before the baby is due in a few months. I’ve never been pregnant and unsure what, if anything, could “help” her or brighten her day. Flowers? Cleaning service? Meals delivered?

    1. Ask if she needs help with anything at this point. Be available to talk about things other than babies. After baby is born, I’m sure meal delivery would be a huge help.

    2. I’d save cleaning service and meals delivered for once the baby arrives. The nicest thing you can do for her at the moment is check in with her and see how she’s doing. I’ve had an awful pregnancy (so far) and it can be quite isolating.

      1. Hugs, lawsuited. I’m almost done with an awful third trimester, and it is really isolating. From feeling like your body is betraying you, to not wanting to be a whiner, to sheer exhaustion hindering the simplest tasks, it can be really hard.

        I would love it if someone found me a highly recommended prenatal masseuse in town and booked it for me. I’ve been meaning to do that, but I misplaced my recommendation (and the one I went to was very disappointing). Also, a couple months ago my husband took it upon himself to find, vet, and schedule biweekly housekeeping. I’ve always been resistant to someone else cleaning up my mess, but it has done wonders for my sanity.

    3. Before the baby, something fun/slightly frivolous is ok, like flowers or a mani/pedi gift certificate. Maybe a prenatal massage (might talk with her and see if she is open to that, as some people aren’t). After the baby, switch to practicality, like having meals delivered. Cleaning service is also a huge help, maybe a couple weeks after they come home with baby. Pre-baby, you are going for “brighten her day;” post-baby, you would rather send something helpful.

    4. Something that’s all about her. Put together a little care package – maybe a fun water bottle, cute socks, adorable pillow and blanket, trashy magazines. Stuff that you know she’ll like, but that don’t take a ton of energy to do. Just little somethings to say “I love YOU too.” A lot of people focus on the baby during a pregnancy, and it’s hard to sometimes remember there’s an actual woman involved as well.

    5. You’re very thoughtful. Don’t get her any ‘fun’ shirts that say ‘preggers!’ or ‘keep calm it’s a boy!’ … I really appreciated rich lotions to put on my belly. I got my best friend a prenatal massage gift certificate when she was pregnant but she is obsessed with massages; I would probably have forgotten to use it.

  12. I’m at an utter career crossroads. I could take a promotion in 12-18 months, which requires a 9 month prior commitment/ramp up period.

    Option 1: Take promotion in next 12-18 months into a big risk/reward role (80% commission; average third-year income after promotion is $750k/year). PRO: intellectually demanding, feeds my competitive spirit, compensation. prestige, pride, to get this role and do well I’ll have “made it” in my industry; essentially no women are in this field, support of office to “set me up for success” CON: it’s a grind – a complete and total grind; ‘soul sucking’ and crushing in the worst days; I’m TTC and the breadwinner by a big margin, even pre-promotion, so I have no idea (and there’s no precedent) what promoted role might look like for me when I have a baby or two. In newly promoted position, I’d be in charge of my schedule because I eat what I kill, but I need to kill a lot to meet minimum expectation. I’m in a move up/get out position in the next 12-18 months. Take my word that delaying TTC more than a few (3?) months from today is not an option for medical reasons.

    Option 2: Find TBD job where I would still make good money ($200-300k/$400k?/yr), significantly less intellectually demanding (downright boring at times?), way more autonomy. Current role makes me in high demand for TBD job. I know what TBD job is, I just need to find an opening with the right company.

    I can.not.for.the.life.of.me figure out what to do. I feel like have no one to talk to because it’s such a unique set of circumstances. The TTC/starting a family thing is a real concern. Maybe if I do #1 DH could work part time? But that still puts me basically never at home with a baby – I’m not willing to miss my child’s life! I’ve talked to him about this of course, but he said I need to choose because it’s significant, but I’m paralyzed by the choice. FWIW, leaving current role would be shocking to current employer.

    Any thoughts on how to make this choice?? Any pros/cons for either side I should be considering?

    1. So, you’re staying where you are for 12-18 months before the promotion anyway? I’d wait and see if you’re pregnant than.

    2. What are you envisioning for Job 2 (industry, location, educational background)? It sounds like my unicorn job!

    3. I would absolutely go for option 2. It sounds like option 1 would demand a great deal of energy and resources, which you may not have available when you’re not sleeping well, baby is sick, etc. Perhaps a job similar to option 1 might be a good choice sometime down the line. Since having my first (with another on the way), I really value predictability and stability and really hate it when I have to stay late or travel and be away from my kid.

      1. I would definitely go for option 1. And, I’m a mother of four children under 8, fwiw. If it doesn’t work, you most likely can get a $200/300 job then. As a mother of four with a grind job that involves some travel but otherwise gives me autonomy to make my own schedule, I will tell you that $500k more a year is worth it. You will be able to outsource the drudgery and your time with the baby will be more enjoyable. Also the lack of a precedent may not be a bad thing. They may look to you to tell them how it working mothers do it.

        1. I’m a mom of 3 under 5 so I’m really interested by this comment. Especially the “time with the baby will be more enjoyable” part as OP seemed to indicated that the hours wouldn’t give her much time with baby. I get that with an extra 500K you can have a night nanny and a day nanny (plus housekeeper/driver etc) but if the hours of the job don’t allow you to be home when baby is awake at all – the money can’t buy you that extra time. It doesn’t sound like the environment is something where she could have a Marissa Meyer type nursery next to the office arrangement either.

          1. I think that a lot of people overestimate the hours of a high paying job and underestimate the hours of a moderately high paying job. I honestly don’t know anyone with a $400k a year job who is consistently home at times their baby is awake more than someone with a $750k job would be. I think that of you are over 40 hours a week, you’re not getting a lot of home time, so you may as well take the higher pay, higher level and then use your automy to creatively find pockets of time that you can spend with your child. If OP is able to get a $400k job that requires less than 40 hours, then more power to her and please tell me where to apply. also, there is an enormous difference between $200k and $400k. I might pass on $750 for $400, but not for $200.

          2. Agree with this ^ re: the required hours. I would recommend reading “I Know How She Does It” which is about being very conscious of how your spend your time and about how mothers who work high pressure overtime-required jobs can make it work.

            The book actually helped me realize that I didn’t *want* to try to make it work. But if you do, it could be useful.

      2. By the way, I’m the person who said I would absolutely go for option 2. For what it’s worth, I’ve always been someone who values work/life balance waaaay more than prestige and crazy $$.

    4. Which one would you want if you weren’t TTC? I sometimes feel like we always need to default to the one we know we want even when other life factors are getting in the way; otherwise, you might end up in a job you dislike with a screaming baby to boot and that could just be more stressful. What would your childcare situation be in Job 1? Do you feel good about it?

      1. It’s not the childcare situation she’s concerned about. With that kind of money, she has lots of options. It’s that the hours wouldn’t leave her much time to see her kid: “But that still puts me basically never at home with a baby – I’m not willing to miss my child’s life!”

        I noticed that Anne Marie Slaughter said that if she could do it all over again, the only thing she would do differently was take off one day every week when her kids were aged 0-5. That’s given me a lot of food for thought.

    5. Do you mind if I ask what field you’re in? I’m just curious because it sounds like sales, and I’m in what I think is one of the more lucrative fields to be selling in, but salaries + commission are still are not as high as what you’re describing.

      If it were me, I’d take the first job. It sounds like you’ve earned it, AND you have a chance to blaze a path for other women. You’re not signing a contract in blood that you have to be doing it forever, either, so there’s no need to talk yourself out of concrete future gains for hypothetical future complications. Wouldn’t you still be in high demand for TBD job after you take new role, or would this close that off as an option? Just steer clear of golden handcuffs and you’ll be fine.

      But I’d also take real stock of my mental and emotional health, and that of my partner/marriage. I’d take a healthy life and marriage over job title and money, if it came down to that, but from your description I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. What does your partner think? Have you talked everything through together?

      Finally, don’t worry about shocking or inconveniencing your employer. If it made business sense to fire you, they’d do it, so if it makes sense for you to leave them, you should do it without feeling the slightest bit of guilt. It’s all business.

      2. +1. Unless taking option 1 would foreclose a later move to an option 2 role, why close that door?

    6. I’d go with option 1 as long as it doesn’t foreclose switching to option 2 if it all becomes too much. TTC is tricky, and you don’t know your timing. It also sounds like you’ll regret not trying option 1. Plus, even if you only stick it out a couple years, it sounds like option 1 will allow you to build life-changing savings.

    7. I have male friends in a field similar to what you describe in Option 1. As you said, there are basically no women in that role. I know of one, and she had a baby last year, and I see two big problems that she may have encountered: 1) I have no idea how or if she was compensated for the 12 weeks she took of parental leave, since they are entirely eat-what-you-kill, and she didn’t “kill” for three months– but based on the bro-talk my inference is that she was not paid at all; 2) Bro-talk is EXTREME, and she was basically ridiculed for taking her “baby vacation” and other people having to “pull her weight” by covering her territory while she was out, etc. Even more disappointing is that these people were all dads who had their own children and should have known better. But they don’t, because another trend I’ve observed is that many of them have SAHM/wives, and they view it as their wife’s “job” (which is one thing for women who choose that, but it’s another thing when they impose that expectation on other women at work). So the industry treatment of women, in particular mothers, may not be something you want to sign up for.

      Do you know if there is paid parental leave at Option 1? Can you find out? Is there anyone in that role that’s had a baby in the past few years? If there’s no one there whose life mirrors what you’d like your life to look like, that’s not a good sign.

      I know you want to take Option 1, and maybe you can. Once you have a baby, you will value “boring” if it means stable and predictable, so Option 2 may not be “boring” to you later even if it seems so now.

      1. If you are making $750k, paid parental leave shouldn’t be a factor in the decision making process.

        1. More important is how it factors into your number if you are on a quota system. It’s not so much being paid (although I personally feel paid parental leave is ALWAYS, ALWAYS a factor, on principle); it’s whether you don’t meet your yearly number because you were out of the game for three months. If everyone else makes $750K for working 12 months, and you make $562K for working 9 months that year, then financially you’re fine. But are you penalized for not meeting the goal that year? How do they change your quota if you can’t work for three months? At the company where my friends work, if you miss quota two years in a row, you are fired. No grace period, no explanations– if you miss your number for two years, you are out. Will Option 1 work around that for you?

        2. In promoted role, no mat leave/payment during that time. The 20% salary I referenced in original post is a draw. Maybe (should probably look into this…) I’d get the draw during my “mat leave” but I do not get the benefit of any true maternity leave policy, which is reserved for salaried employees. I expect to have children before $750k is achieved – and with 2 or 3 kids, that average salary in year three could easily be my year 5 or 6. I’m in fertility treatments now and after a long slog the prognosis is good. I know timing of kids is still all up to chance, but I have good reason to believe it would be before year 3. I also don’t want to wait 3 years to have kids.

          1. What’s the health care insurance situation for your leave? NICU costs etc can add up to significant sums very quickly so make sure you know if you are covered or not (so you can purchase appropriate insurance in advance elsewhere). You don’t want to assume you’re covered, find out you aren’t and get stuck with a huge NICU bill (prematurity being an increased risk with fertility treatments)

          2. Good point. On DH’s currently. If he went part time we’d likely be forced to switch. I will need to look into that.

        1. Sales– they have to sell a certain dollar amount every year, usually an incremental/percentage increase from what the territory sold last year.

      1. I know enterprise sales guys who make somewhere in that range to essentially play golf all day and take clients out to dinner. $100-200k salary plus uncapped commissions plus equity; build a rolodex of contacts who essentially become your drinking buddies (on the company dime) over the years and funnel all their budget to you. This is the path I’m on and I sometimes get jealous of my BigLaw friends because they make way more money than I do right now, but it’s actually a pretty nice (and minimally stressful) path.

        1. Ahhh….so like Roger, on MadMen.

          Is this what you thought you would be doing, back in college?

          1. I haven’t seen MadMen, so I can’t comment on that! I really wanted to be a cop or federal agent in college, and started to go through the application process for a couple of things and got incredibly turned off by the culture/environment. Fell into tech on the client side, loved it, and then made a conscious decision to pursue sales because it’s tied directly to the revenue stream and therefore most lucrative and mostly male (which is tough but sometimes also plays to my favor). I also went for it because I’m an extrovert who gets my energy for meeting and befriending new people, so getting paid to do that is the dream. There are some cut throat sales industries, but mine is full of Good Old Boys who legit just want to have a beer and not worry too much about anything. I’m profoundly jealous and profoundly not-jealous of my lawyer friends…

          2. Good luck to you! My dads a salesman. Don’t think he ever sat at a desk for more than an hour. Never had to work for anyone else. He paid for my law school and undergraduate education and laughs at my paycheck. He’s also the most fun person around.

          3. @Suburban Thank you! When you said “laughs at my paycheck” you mean he laughs because he makes more, or less? And you’re a lawyer now?
            Anyway, always glad to hear about people who make this field work for them! There’s definitely a way to do it right!

          4. He laughs bc I make so much less than him. I’m a lawyer. I love my job and think I’m fairly paid. But I’ll never make money like my dad did. He always said that salespeople are the highest paid people. That said, he had great years and lean years and had to learn to manage that, so that’s how he made it work. Someone offered him an office job making crazy money a few years ago and he had to say no. He lives for the rush and the lifestyle he’s build.

          5. This is what I’m aiming for :) But it’s definitely not for everyone! Thanks for sharing, you made my day!

        2. SD – glad to know there are others in my shoes! I recently joined a fast-growing company managing sales and wish I could divert all of my time into 2 major enterprise deals, but developing the small clients is where our bread and butter is at right now.

          1. Small clients are still businesses and not individuals, right? I do both and I honestly love the small and medium guys. They’re often very friendly and straight forward to work with, and it’s a rare company that can afford to snub ’em. It reminds me of that NYTimes review of Per Se, calling them out for not treating the “birthday splurgers” with the utmost respect, because let’s be real, those are the people keeping them afloat.

          2. Yes, and they’re great to work with. I don’t mean to discount them or their value to my company in any way. But it’s the Roger Sterling effect – if I can land even one of these two major deals I would lock down a huge amount of steady business for a long, long time. I wish I could dedicate 100% of my time to it, but our company is growing so fast I just don’t have the Pete and Ken’s of the world (account executive-types) yet to run around chasing meetings/process/paperwork with the smaller accounts. I’m preparing to bring one on within 60 days, which will free up a solid chunk of my time to focus on solidifying the relationship with my two large clients.

          3. That’s awesome! Good luck!! Ah, perhaps one day I’ll be in your position (right now I’m the account executive type!)

          4. Good luck to you, too! You’ll make it – I’m actually new to my industry but not to sales – and got here because of strong relationship building, a whole lot of persistence and creatively thinking about partnerships.

      2. It’s actually a highly skilled/trained job. However, relative to my current environment, and environment of the past six years, I’d find it boring/flexible/secure, etc. I actually started out in a low-level role in Option 2, so I know that I have a reasonable sense of what to expect. That, and I work closely with Option 2 daily.

    9. Definitely option 1, and save a lot of money to give yourself maximum flexibility down the road. I wouldn’t base this decision on your TTC plans at all. Do what you want to do for your career and cross the pregnancy/baby bridge when you come to it. You must be good at your job to be offered this opportunity. If you do well in the new role, you’ll have some leverage to try to make the accommodations you need for your potential family. I can’t stress enough that you don’t know what those will be until you have a baby. You may be ok with less time with the kids than you imagine now. I spend far fewer hours with my children than my pre-kida self would have thought I’d be comfortable with, but I’m totally happy with the balance most of the time. And if it doesn’t work, fall back to Option2.

    10. Let me offer this perspective with regard to timelines and TTC: When I started TTC, I thought it would happen in 6 months-1 year like so many people suggest on this site. Instead, I got pregnant the first month. I also thought that even once pregnant, I would still have 9 months of working at full-capacity before the demands of having an infant began to impact my output. Instead, my morning sickness has been so bad that I can’t come into the office before 10am or stay at the office much after 5pm and in addition to reduced hours I have missed a lot of time from work when my symptoms are especially severe/I have to be hospitalized for dehydration/I have appointments with the multiple specialists now following me. All that to say that my 15-21 month timeline became a 1 month timeline pretty quickly.

    11. Husband and I are making a similar determination right now while we’re TTC (only I’m the lesser-earning spouse and he’s the one with two different job offers). One of his offers is lower-paying but still well-paying, with a potentially better quality of life. The other is going to be awful at times but will pay insanely well. We haven’t officially decided what to do, but we’re leaning towards Potentially Awful But More $$$ job right now. The thinking is that I’ll scale back or even stay home for a few years when a baby arrives, while he grinds it out and makes really good money, which will give us more options in the future (early retirement or a transition to a lower-paying but more relaxed role, etc.). Also, ask what work environment makes you happiest, even if it sounds counter-intuitive on paper. My husband is a total Type A, competitive guy who thrives under pressure, and feels the more relaxed environment might drive him a little nuts.

  13. Does anyone have suggestions for pre-theater restaurants in New York for a group in which one person is a vegetarian and one person is very not?

    1. Carmines for delicious Italian family style dishes, Pongsri for delicious thai food on 48th and 8th.

      1. Yay Fruegel Friday’s! I love Fruegal Friday’s and this pencil skirt! What a Great pick and VERY fruegel at $38 dollar’s!

        As for the OP, I fully agree. Carmine’s has GREAT Italian food in the Theater district, but there is a better one up on the UPPER West Side, around 95th and Broadway, I think. Shektovits never ate meat outside, but he LOVED CHEEZE dishes, and Carmine’s has decent CHEEZE dishes. He used to order pasta primavere there with CHEEZE and Parmigeana. At Carmine’s they also serve BIG appetizer’s, and I LOVE appetizer’s. Even Dad love’s Carmine’s and he is VERY pickey. He once sent back some fish, and they gave him a new dish and did NOT charge us at all for his meal. They also alway’s know him by name and call him Captain b/c of his miliateary background.

        I am goeing back to the Hamton’s this weekend b/c the manageing partner wants us to help him put his boat away for the season. We are takeing a final ride b/f he get’s it DRY DOCKED. Margie is giveing us a cookout, and I am getting a FILET MINGNON Steak. YAY!!!!!

      2. Carmines is good food, but it is SO CROWDED and not a relaxing/intimate environment at all, if that’s what you are looking for. There are lots of nice places on “restaurant row” (46th at btween 8th and 9th aves) and the adjacent blocks.

  14. Does anyone have a good recommendation for a keratin / Brazilian blowout treatment in the Philadelphia area?

  15. Can anyone speak to living in South Bend, Indiana, and/or working at the University of Notre Dame?

    1. What part of the country are you from? What type of city/smaller town living are you used to?

      Indiana is…. a little rough if you are coming from East (or West) Coast liberal academia, for example. The Trump stamp is strong there. It is a Catholic University.

      But in general, college towns seem to have a good pulse, wherever they are.

      Congrats if this is a career option for you!

      1. I would be relocating from a great college town in the South. I’ve lived in the mid-west before and found it very… bland. But that was before kids, so maybe its better as a low-key place to raise a family while both spouses work?

        1. As a liberal person living in a super conservative area, I’ve found it more frustrating to raise kids here than to be childless. Before we had a child, it was relatively easy to conceal my values and political leanings socially and to seek out like-minded folks who don’t necessarily live in our immediate neighborhood. Now that we are parents, we have to warn our child that she should not participate in any political discussions at school or with her friends (they are old enough to be interested in the presidential election), we have to worry about anti-vaxxers and unsecured guns in friends’ homes, it’s very hard on our child to have the only working mom in town, we are having trouble finding a church in which we are comfortable raising a daughter, and we worry that she is constantly being bombarded with messages that run contrary to our family’s values. YMMV.

          1. Right, but I think she’s saying her concern is that the area is bland/boring. After I had a baby, I appreciated my bland town a lot more because it’s safe, walkable and quiet.

    2. I went to Notre Dame for undergrad. Notre Dame is great, but I did not really like South Bend and Indiana life in general. South Bend seems to have improved in the 15 years since I graduated, though. Lots of new openings.

      Are you Catholic, and if so, how Catholic? This may have an impact on your experience. The faculty is noticeably more progressive and less Catholic than the student body (I had plenty of self-proclaimed atheist profs), but ultimately Catholicism rules and a priest is the president.

      I found the university’s conservatism really frustrating and some of the student body to be like unquestioning lemmings when it came to Catholicism. Everyone they grew up with was Catholic and now everyone they’re at college with is Catholic, so their worldview was never challenged.

      That said, many of my best friends today went to Notre Dame and they’re some of the most open-minded and awesome people I know, so I think it may be more the campus culture that frustrated me. A place where you have to have a gender relations committee is not a typical college campus.

      Hope that helps!

      1. Do you love Notre Dame? You sort of have to. I would agree with the Catholicism component. There is a big feeling among ND grads and even those that aren’t accepted (see Rudy) that ND is the end-all be-all of existence. It is sort of like how 90% of Harvard alums always find a way to tell you they went to Harvard… but with an ‘approved by God’ flavor to it. (See touchdown Jesus). I also agree that most professors are more liberal than a lot of their students. And I also agree that the students are a little unquestioning, not necessarily about Catholicism but about their world. Many come from suburban, white, Catholic high schools and miss out on exposure to different kinds of people and perspectives of the world. I don’t know if you will actually be working at the university, but I think these points are relevant nonetheless because the town-and-gown relationship is very tight. Everyone in South Bend is a ND fan, much like the Iowa locals are. (Similar concept- ND is their local sports for everything.) Everyone is expected to L-O-V-E ND football no matter what (see ND rape cases), whether you are a student or a local. I always felt that if you were lukewarm about ND, you were very much ostracized. Don’t think you are living in Chicago, because it is a 2hr-drive and a timezone away.

        All this being said, the university is beautiful and like many universities, new restaurants are always springing up. If your family enjoys being part of football Saturdays, tailgaiting is a lot of fun. Indiana taxes are an added perk and in the summer it is along the western-most part of the Eastern time zone, so you have daylight very late, which is nice. I have a lot of very close friends who went to ND and wouldn’t be friends with them if they were bland or closed-minded, but I try to avoid them on Saturdays in the fall :)

        As far as midwest goes, I would go Chicago or St. Louis over South Bend, especially if you are worried about life being bland, but that’s me!

    3. I live in one of the other two big college towns in Indiana, so although I have no experience with South Bend I can tell you about college town life in Indiana. Yes, the state is red and has many Trump supporters but universities attract diversity and tend to be significantly more liberal than the surrounding areas. Maybe not ND as much because it is Catholic (although worth noting that although they tend to be conservative, Catholics are very much not Trump’s base), but certainly the college towns are very different than say, Fort Wayne or Evansville.

      In general, the upsides are a very low cost of living, short commutes, fantastic public schools and educational opportunities associated with the university (our U puts on lots of educational summer camps and weekend programs for kids and hosts major names for lectures that are open to the public), nice neighborhoods + neighbors, and more diversity than you would find in a similarly-sized town without a major research university.

      That said, there a lot of chain restaurants (there are good local places too, but you have to put more effort into finding them than you would in a major city), we have to drive an hour to the nearest airport (I believe South Bend has its own airport although flights are very limited), I have seen Confederate flags not far from town and many of the people, especially the ones not associated with the university, tend to be a little provincial and unsophisticated (as an example, one of the finalists in the “fine dining” category of the local newspaper’s readers choice awards was the Olive Garden). I grew up in the Midwest so overlooking these downsides is not a big deal to me, but I do think someone who has never lived here would experience some culture shock.

      Working at a university is fantastic and I can’t recommend it highly enough (I’m professional staff, not faculty).

    4. I would strongly recommend talking with other faculty about where their kids go to school. This may be a great stepping stone for your career, but these are formative years for your kids. My best friend’s children are growing up in Indiana and a decent sized city (for Indiana), and she really has to struggle to keep their values in line with her own. She also has a child who most days looks more stylish than most posts on this board, and she is not a conservative cheerleader type….. and she gets shocking in your face comments about her appearance/lifestyle. Really rough, and only gets harder as they get older.

      Some Universities have affiliated childcare/schools etc.. that cater to a lot of faculty, who tend to have a less conservative world-view. This may be at Notre Dame.

      A college town is never boring, if you look around. Working as faculty and having kids you wont have a lot of free time to be doing fun/city things anyway.

    5. I went to ND for undergrad and graduated a few years ago. I think it has already come along a way since then. South Bend is definitely not as nice of a college town as Bloomington or Ann Arbor, but it is improving. The University has done a lot to rehab much of the housing near campus and some of the new houses are downright beautiful while still charming.

      Pete Buttigieg is the mayor of South Bend and I think he could be a leading voice in the Democratic party if he chooses to go that route. He is gay, went to an Ivy League school (I think Harvard), Oxford and he is in the military reserves. He has done a lot to bring more business to South Bend in the past few years.

      South Bend isn’t the bustling industrial town it once was, but northern Indiana also has plenty of beautiful countryside, woods and BEACHES not too far away.

      1. To add on to this, 3 of my best friends from college are from the South Bend area (Mishawaka and Granger). They all live in Chicago now (as do I). They all turned out great; open-minded, smart, worldy. I think the public schools in that area are pretty great (they went to Penn for high school).
        Plus you’re only a 2 hour drive from Chicago!

        1. Just want to say that I’m also only a 2 hour drive from Chicago and I go at most once a year…it’s not close enough to go for the day and if I’m spending money on a hotel I’m going to go to a place I haven’t visited yet (plus hotels in Chicago are $$$$). I love Midwestern college towns but I wouldn’t move to South Bend because of proximity to Chicago. It’s not a suburb of Chicago and you shouldn’t mislead yourself into thinking you are going to have the advantages of being close to Chicago.

          1. Totally agree with this.

            And this Chicagoan grew up going to Indiana for all of our vacations to camp and go to the beach. So there’s that…

    6. Hi Famouscait! I spent six years of my life (7th-12th grade) in South Bend and my mom still lives there. It has its pros and cons. I am an avowed liberal who did not want to attend ND, although it was widely regarded as THE school to go to by many of my friends and other “townies.” Although the university is Catholic to its core (see: protests when they invited Obama to speak b/c he is pro-choice), many, many students and faculty hold strongly progressive views.

      The community has changed a ton since I was there, mostly for the better. I give a lot of credit to “Mayor Pete” (Pete Buttigieg), a young up-and-comer who’s received tons of national attention for his work and policies. I went to elementary school with Pete and he’s an awesome guy who’s an enormous asset to the community.

      There are good schools in South Bend (and bad ones too) in case that’s a concern for you/kids/future kids. I went to Stanley Clark, a progressive K-8 independent school, and had a fantastic experience. Many ND faculty send their kids there. There are fewer options for HS but the public school system — in my experience — got much better by 9th grade.

      There’s a lot to do nearby the Bend — you can drive northeast to St. Joseph and/or other charming small towns on the shores of Lake Michigan for good shopping and beach time. 90 minutes will get you to Chicago and there’s also a train. South Bend is NOT a Chicago suburb but I disagree with the earlier posters who say it’s too far for a day trip — we went all the time when I was a kid! There’s also a small regional airport in South Bend proper.

      I read the comments here all the time, so page me if you have specific questions.

  16. Option 1. Trying to time things based on when / if TTC will work is incredibly frustrating. Maybe it happens right away, maybe it’s still a few years down the road. With that kind of salary in the fancy job you can afford the kind of support you’ll need to be working and parenting simultaneously (nanny, housecleaning, etc.) And what’s your worst case scenario here … that you try the big prestigious job, ultimately determine that it isn’t a good fit for whatever reason, and your fall back is a comfortable job in the 200 – 4o0 k range? Sounds pretty good to me. I say make a go of it, and no shame if it doesn’t end up being what you want if / when life priorities change.

  17. Reporting back on both the Classiques Funnel Neck Ponte Sheath and the Emerson Rose Belted Sheath dress. I wanted to love the latter but it was just a bit too long, a bit too thin, and overall read as too frumpy. I was pleasantly surprised by the CE funnel neck – it had a couple of elements I wasn’t sure about (zipper on neck, front side slit, neckline) but on it looked great and was super comfortable. Slit is too high for me but I’m just going to have the tailor partially close it. Not a bad buy for the sale price.

  18. A note on stage presence – I’m a grad student who recently had a guest lecturer who was very smart, but whose stage presence was just incredibly distacting. She was wearing a sleeveless dress that didn’t fit great, which was nbd until she punctuated nearly every point with huge outstreched arms, shouts combined with pointing to the ceiling, and other way-over-the-top body language (including long peals of laughter) to describe a dry lecture on insurance policy. Contrast that with my other one professor who is incredibly smart, interesting, and fashionable every day (everyone in my year has an academic crush on her). I noticed that when she speaks, she uses a pretty uniformly calm voice with appropriate inflection for main points, uses hand gestures/body language but not really “out of the frame of the body”, so to speak, and she also has highly organized slides and lectures. I found the difference quite striking; the first woman seemed like she could be the life of the party and clearly wanted us all to be enthusiastic, but in lecture, it came off as frantic and distracting. Has anyone else noticed any body language/styles that work compared to those that don’t work? I have more public speaking opportunities coming up and this is something I think about a lot!

    1. Your guest lecturer could be one of my senior co-workers, except for the topic. My co-worker wears ill-fitting, out-of-date clothes that are too casual and show things that no one wants to see, not because her clothes are designed to be revealing but because they don’t fit right and she doesn’t wear the proper foundation garments. She is inappropriately loud and laughs at her own unfunny jokes. I cringe whenever I have to watch her give a presentation, and when we are presenting together I am always extra-conscious of my own appearance and deportment so as to draw a sharp contrast between us.

      That said, I don’t think you have to go to the other extreme and be icy cool. If you are well prepared and genuinely interested in your subject matter, letting a little enthusiasm show can help draw the audience in. The best thing to do is to prepare a well-organized presentation with clear, easily understood examples, explanations, and analogies to illustrate your points, then rehearse it out loud several times. When you are very comfortable with your presentation, it will come across as relaxed and natural. Don’t be afraid to show a little of your personality. Unless your true personality is loud and obnoxious like my co-worker’s, in which case you should try to rein it in a little.

      1. I do agree that you need to be dressed appropriately, and for me it also must be very comfortable. I can’t be feeling self-conscious about anything I am wearing. Obviously those of us on this site are probably a little bit more pro-active in our clothing choices than many.

        But I do feel that showing some of your personality is helpful. I want to see your passion and excitement. Boring slides detailing every bullet point with perfect diction doesn’t work for me. I fall asleep.

        Of course, the talk must be well organized and clear. But I am very forgiving on style if they have passion and tell a good story.

        So your first speaker… if she speaks well…. I might be grateful for her quirky style. Your second speaker may look great, but I may fall asleep….

        I am in science/medicine.

      2. Yes, definitely show some authentic enthusiasm and personality! Key word being authentic.

    2. Totally, just look at the last debate. Even if you muted it, Trump paced around the floor when he wasn’t talking, lurked behind his opponent, pursed his lips, at times walked away from the camera/audience. Clinton sat at her chair when she wasn’t standing to address a question thus ‘ceding’ the floor, walked towards the audience when she was talking to gather interest, and alternated her face from neutral to interested to smiling.

      In fact, in litigation boot camp, the teachers recorded our oral arguments and after going through the tape, they would then play it again muted, so you focus on the physical presence. Are you short and stuck behind a huge podium? You may have more presence if you step just to the side of it. Do you use your hands so much? Try holding onto something at the podium so you use your gestures and hands thoughtfully. Do you have bi+chy resting face? My concentrating face looks like I am angry, so I make a point to calm my eyebrows and nod with the faintest smile so that my actual concentration comes off as so and not as angry. Maybe your hair falls in a way that covers your face to half the room. All this is to say, one of the best ways to learn about your physical presence is to watch it, even if you are not being filmed for the actual speech. If you are being filmed or projected onto a screen, be aware of how things look on camera- namely, I feel like once a week there is a newscast with a man wearing too-thin stripes or a really small plaid that totally hazes the video feed. You can bet your first example would have noticed what you noticed when every single one of her gestures would have thrown off a videographer. (Sometimes it’s ok to do that for effect, but it loses effect if you do it every time.)

    3. People often remark that I move my hands a lot when I speak but I suspect that if I had an Italian name or accent it would seem normal

  19. Is anyone else in this situation? I’m married and we are both in our forties. Everything in our life has been put on hold until my husband feels like our future is financially secure. We both have professional (white collar) jobs, no debt, no mortgage, no student loans, no children, and decent retirement savings. We live within our means. But this isn’t enough for him. He won’t make any big financial commitments (read house renovation or children) for fear of losing his job or me losing mine. I get his insecurity. He has survived 5 or 7 reorganizations (read lay offs) in his Fortune 500 company in the past 10 years, meaning every other year he is at risk of losing his job. Meanwhile, I was in big law (and didn’t make it even though I really wanted to). So he always thinks we are just around the corner of a major financial catastrophe. I was just on the cusp of convincing him to finally remodel our dilapidated house when his company announced that they are doing another reorg! So he’s back into lock down mode. This is just depressing. I wish these big companies could find ways to excite their shareholders other than constant reorgs. The job insecurity is really undermining.

    1. Can you downsize your life to fit his comfort level? Smaller house? If this has been going on for ten years, could it be that he doesn’t want to have kids and he’s hoping you’ll come around on that? You don’t want to be in your sixties raising teenagers and if you are going the adoption route, some states have upper age limits for parental age at time of adoption.

    2. Yes, I hear you on the constant reorgs and catering to shareholders – that is definitely stressful. But it seems like you have both been able to find jobs following the lay offs so is there a reason that he believes another lay off will lead to financial ruin? Maybe you can remind him that you’ve survived in the past and will do so in the future. I doubt you will ever have true financial security and certainty (unless you are independently wealthy) so you’ll need to develop coping mechanisms for when the unexpected does happen and try to live your life the best you can in the meanwhile.

    3. If you don’t have kids now, you aren’t having kids. He needs professional treatment for his irrational anxiety.

    4. I grew up with a dad who lived in daily fear of losing his job. It colored every decision he made, was a constant cloud over every dollar spent, and kept us from doing pretty normal family stuff like vacations, dinners out, etc. We were upper middle class but he was so afraid of losing his job that we lived well well below our means. When I turned 18 my dad did lose his job. He found another one within 5 days. And has been there ever since. But now that his fear has been validated, he’s convinced he was right all along and continues to live in fear of the next layoff.

      Job insecurity is to some degree a reality. Long gone are the days, for the most part, where people work at the same company for 30+ years. But, for me, the constant, paralyzing fear of job loss is worse than the loss of a job itself and I refuse to live that way. I have a lot of resentment toward my dad who dismissed my mom’s desire to live a present life and to enjoy the rewards of their hard work. My husband and I have been reasonable about paying off debt and accruing a reasonable emergency fund, but beyond that, we make financial decisions without considering job loss. Because that’s always a possibility and we’ve done what we need to to prepare for that possibility.

      Ask your husband what financial security means to him. Is it “$X” in guaranteed income annually? Is it “Y” in emergency savings? Ask him to work with you on identifying and quantifying financial security so that you have a goal to work towards. And ask him if, once you hit that goal, you all can make financial commitments with the understanding that whatever is making him feel financially secure won’t be touched. It’s your life, too. And his feelings about job insecurity, even if reasonable, should not trump your desire to have children or remodel your home.

      1. +1

        What was your husband’s childhood like?

        I ask because this may also be part of his fundamental personality, and very hard to change…. especially considering you are in your 40s and he thinks delaying children is necessary.

        I also grew up with a father like this. My parents grew up poor, and were the first in their families to go to college, and only because they had scholarships. My father was extremely conservative financially, and never allowed any house remodeling to be done (except when the termites were weakening a support beam), and insisted all $ be saved saved saved. It was very hard on my Mom, and led to much unhappiness.

        However, once they reached retirement age, they had a ton of savings and were very financially secure. For the first time in my father’s life, he relaxed a little. But unfortunately they were struck with severe illness early, and my Mom passed away quickly, literally right after retirement.

        Don’t let this be you. My Mom had so many regrets, but at least she was able to have children.

        I would prioritize children over home remodeling. Home remodeling often is very expensive, and if there is job insecurity that might give me pause too. But I understand where you are coming from.

        1. This is my DH’s parents. They retired early (50, 51) and with a lot of money because they never spent anything. They lived middle class on an upper class income (or more). No cable, no vacations, used cars and/or cars they bought in cash and drive for 12+ years, no eating out. They are now in their late 70s/early 80s, and sitting on a pile of money they can’t really spend since FIL is ill and frail. They have over $3M (not sure how much more, could be substantially more) plus real estate holdings etc and it’s just so sad because my MIl talks about how she wishes they had traveled more. Or that she didn’t live for decades with an old oven she hated.

    5. I am a huge advocate for living within your means and saving lots of money at the expense of fun things you might want, but what you are describing does not sound normal. Delaying children (in your 40s, no less) for financial reasons when you have no debt and decent savings is crazy. It sounds like he is dealing with some serious anxiety, based on his and your past work experiences, and I would encourage him to seek therapy. Postponing the home remodel in the face of a potential layoff seems a little more reasonable to me, although if you have the cash just sitting around to do it (without raiding retirement savings) and no other debt, I’m not sure why it would be much of a risk.

    6. That sounds frustrating. There will always be reorgs, that is how the world works. I would encourage him to seek treatment for his anxiety. But, is it possible he uses it as an excuse to avoid things he doesn’t want to do? For example he’s putting off thinking about children, but if you’re in your early 40’s, that means he’s really deciding no.

    7. You and DH need to talk about this. He does not want to have children. You guys are in your forties. If he wanted children, he would have them. Every person in the world could lose their job/income/security/health/ability at any moment. Yet everyone else is able to conduct normal life activities, and your DH is not. He is using financial security (which you already have! no debt! no mortgage! decent savings! few expenses!) as an excuse for not moving forward with you. Ask him why.

    8. Honestly, it sounds to me like he has job-related anxiety that could benefit from therapy and/or meds. I had a bad layoff as a young lawyer (was called into the managing partner’s office at 10 a.m. one morning and told that the firm didn’t have enough work to justify keeping me on board), and have struggled with anxiety for YEARS after that in relation to spending money, making major life decisions, and every.single.meeting. with my current boss. If he has anxiety in other areas, too, meds may help as well…

    9. This sounds like the perfect situation for relationship counseling. It sounds like his feelings, not the facts, are dominating the situation and a neutral third party could help you work toward a practical solution.

  20. I got a Mirena in july and have been bleeding every single day since then (3+ months). Dr. says this isn’t typical but not out of the norm and to give it more time to even out, but that it is ultimately my decision if I want to give up. Any experience with this? When do I finally just give up and take it out. This is totally miserable and defeating the purpose.

    2. My experience was more like 8 weeks, but I stuck it out and had virtually no bleeding when it was replaced 5 years later. It has been life-changing and in retrospect was totally worth it. That said, it’s not right for everyone. In your shoes, I would probably base my decision on whether or not it seems to be tapering off at all.

    3. I had implanon twice before I had it removed to TTC. After my daughter was born, I had another one put in.

      Pre-baby, it was amazing. I never had a period. Post-baby it was a nightmare, with constant bleeding. I just kept hoping it would get better since it worked so well the first two times. It didn’t. I suffered it out for about 9 or 10 months. When it go to the point where I was considering installing a bidet attachment to my toilet because I was constantly bleeding, I finally gave up.

      It’s okay to give up before you’ve spent the better part of a year bleeding. I wish I had.

    4. I had cramps for a couple months that eventually subsided. I don’t think I’d keep it in if I were in your shoes. Try not to frame it as “giving up” on Mirena. Maybe it’s just not a good fit for you.

      1. I’m on my second Mirena – for my first, I remember a decent amount of bleeding in the first 3 weeks, then absolutely no periods for 2.5 years. My removal/replacement was last December and I think I spotted for two days. My periods are getting lighter again and fingers crossed they’ll disappear again soon.

        Three months is a long time. Like Nancy said, it’s not about giving up but choosing an option that’s a better fit for you.

        1. I’m about to get my second one. I didn’t have any bleeding at all for 6 years after the first few months. Maybe you’re about to turn a corner, but 3 months sounds annoying as hell.

    5. I had the same exact thing with Mirena (not much volume, but daily). I stuck it out and I’m relatively glad I did. But I remember how annoying and stressful it was…I think things cleared up around 5 – 6 months and now I barely get a period at all.

      1. Same, it took a good 6 months before it stopped completely. It was very annoying at first, but 4 years later I’m happy I stuck with it.

      2. That was my experience too for the first one. Second was… nothing. But of course, everyone is different!

      3. Same, my first three months were miserable. Then all of a sudden it stopped, and 3 years later, I might have some cramping one day a month (man, I don’t feel great. Oh, I guess I’m cramping from my “period”? Huh), but don’t bleed, I don’t have pregnancy scares, I don’t worry about getting pregnant, and I can definitively say it was worth it. But it’s totally up to you. For me, not having to remember a pill or deal with anything like a patch was absolutely worth it because I am hated having to deal with it, plus I had terrible periods and cramps. For you, if it’s not that big a deal, it might not be worth it.

        2. Thanks for the hope! That’s what I’m hoping for… Trading a few more months of misery for a few lighter period years would be amazing.

    6. I gave it 5 months, and I never stopped bleeding and cramping for more than a day or two. It always came back. I was absolutely miserable, and I’m so glad I had it taken out. I considered having it taken out after 3 months, but the doctor encouraged me to wait. He said it was rare that someone wouldn’t eventually take to it. But at 5 months, he advised that there probably wasn’t a point to waiting any longer.

      1. Same with me, cramps were horrible and never improved, removed after 6 mo

    7. This is my second Mirena ( first one was great) but I have been having similar issues with #2, which have me wondering where I should just have it removed. I have decided ( for now) to leave it in and hope that the bleeding levels off. For me 3 months of serious pain in the neck bleeding is worth the tradeoff for 5 years of a fuss free IUD. I can always re-assess and have it removed later.

    8. I had my Mirena taken out in March due to the fact I was bleeding all the time. It was actually in the wrong spot (too low) so you may want to have them check with an ultrasound that the placement is ideal.

    9. I had this issue. Removed it after 6 months bc it didn’t seem like it was ever getting better.

    10. When mine was fitted I was told to expect spotting for up to 26 weeks, then a patten would emerge. I went from spotting to a single day period every 4 months. My second never settled and in two years I had 28 days free, never heavy but always present. After all the usual checks and trying a short term pill top up I pursuaded my doc to replace it. 2 weeks of constant bleeding and now 15 months on I have a very very light show every two months. Try and push through if you can. Depending on your reason in the first place it can be totally worth it. From my teenage years now 40 I have always been very heavy with a two week cycle, so the short term pain for the years of wearing white without worry is worth it. Good luck.

  21. I think I am going to tell my husband I want a divorce this weekend. We’ve been married 16 years and have two great kids. I’ve been the primary breadwinner and I do most of the house stuff. I’ve asked for years for more help and support and am finally realizing I’m not going to get it from him. Earlier, our relationship was way worse due to his addiction to alcohol and marijuana, but I feel like I am less patient/ tolerant now and I also feel like I no longer have hope for getting the kind of relationship I want with him. I’ve been thinking about this for years. I think it is the right thing to do but will also probably be really unpleasant for a while. Kids are 12 and 14 — I used to think I could stay married until they left for college but I don’t think I can any more. I’m not really as angry and hurt as I used to be, just sad and resigned. Sharing here because I’m not ready to talk with my friends IRL

    2. Hugs – I’d have a plan about how you want to tell the kids and what you want him to do (move to guest room/get a new apartment). If my spouse told me he was living, and I had young teenagers, one of my first thoughts would be about how to tell the kids. If he has a history of addiction, you should brace yourself for the fact that this could trigger a relapse. I don’t say that to dissuade you but only to highlight that you may want to mentally prepare for things getting worse before they get better.

      1. +1

        Think very carefully about how you will tell the kids. I hope he will be able to handle this brutal encounter. Have a basic plan clearly laid out…. where they will live, where Dad will live. So they don’t panic and think their life will be uprooted immediately.

        Do not ask their input on anything at this point. Just speak, let them listen. Tell them you both are very sad about this, and let them just sit and absorb it. But keep it short. Don’t ask them questions… unless they want to talk.

        My parents also got separated when my brothers and I were your kids’ ages. They probably know it is coming. They know your husband and know what he has put you/them through. But the meeting when they told us was terrible. My Dad just blurted out….. “So …. we’re SPLITTING UP!!”… My father started asking us …. “I’m thinking about living at A or B… what do you think? Where do you want me? How often do you want to see me?” Not appropriate. Not the time. We are in shock. We are numb. We can’t even hear you at this point.

        Good luck. I understand.

    3. If you’re done you’re done, and that’s fine, but have you tried counseling with him already?

        1. Oh man. You’ve really tried, more than most. Go, be happy! You deserve it! And your kids deserve a happy, self-actualizing mom! You’ll be in my thoughts this weekend.

    4. Hugs. It will be hard on the kids but so is living with parents who do not have a good relationship.

      1. +1

        My dad wanted out but stayed married to my mom despite his misery until after we all left for college. I don’t know how things would have turned out (the divorce got fairly ugly) if he had pulled the trigger and asked for a divorce earlier, so maybe he made the right decision. But it saddens me how miserable he was.

      2. My parents got divorced when I was 8 and it was rough on me, but ultimately I know it was for the best and looking back I know it was right for them to divorce when they did. My best friend/cousin’s parents stayed together for the kids (moreso her brother who had some issues) but very clearly were not happy. The divorce was rough when it happened when the kids were grown but my cousin truly believes that they should have divorced when she was a kid. The relationship got so much worse over the years and it was incredibly apparent to everyone (kids included) that they hated each other. It puts pressure on the kids when it becomes clear that you are staying together for them.

    5. The most important thing you can do (after getting a lawyer, protecting your assets, etc.) is to get your husband to move out. Once you begin divorce proceedings, he does not have to move out, and he can use that has HUGE leverage. It might make more sense to tell him you want a trial separation, to get him out, and then file for divorce.

      1. This is actually great advice. Tell him you’d like to have a trial separation and he needs to get his own place. After he has moved out and settled in, then file.

        1. If you’re going to tell him this, please make it an actual trial separation. As in, give it a try. Please don’t lie to him to get him to move out and then file immediately thereafter.

          1. Given the separation, I doubt that the divorce will come as a shock to your children, although of course it will still be painful and confusing for them. I think your conversation with your husband should acknowledge the writing on the wall (with 8 years while you’ve been in marriage counselling and a 9 month separation, your husband must realize things have not been going well), and focus on coming up with a strategy to give your children the best parents they can have. I expect that would be a mutual goal for both you and your husband, and the unified focus may help you through the next difficult stages.

    7. It’s a very tough decision but you have obviously thought it through extensively. You’ll get through this and so will your kids. As the child of divorced parents (whose parents divorced when I was around your youngest), I was fine with it and frankly happier when they were separated because there was less angst at home. Children are incredibly resilient. Best of luck.

      1. I was raised the same way. It’s so much better for kids, especially teenagers who are learning how relationships work to have parents who are engaged with them and not hating each other. That said, I’m so sorry you’re going through all of this. Good luck!

    8. A note of encouragement: my parents divorced as soon as my youngest sister turned 18. The marriage had been falling apart for years and it was very clear that they decided to “stick it out for the sake of the kids”. Spending our teen years in a tense, miserable environment where my father drank heavily and my mother was constantly angry did not help us with anything, and gave us a very skewed vision of what a healthy relationship looks like. So, don’t worry about not hanging on until your kids leave for college – they will be better off with a happy mom!

      1. ^ Exact same experience in my family. It was awful. I would have been incredibly happy if my parents had gotten divorced when I was 8 or 9. Instead they stayed together for the kids til we were out of the house. It was dreadful.

      2. +1000

        After seeing my parents’ terrible, unhealthy marriage, I decided never, ever to marry. Neither of my brothers have successful relationships, and only one (pseudo) marriage among all of us.

    9. Hugs. This seems thoughtful on your part. He’s dealt with his substance abuse and this is no longer a crisis situation. It’s totally ok to stop putting your happiness on hold. I know it isn’t easy and I wish you all the best.

    10. Hugs. There are better things on the other side! My best advice is to make sure you have plenty of cash to do what you need to do while the divorce is pending. I agree that getting him to move out may be the hardest thing. In my case I knew my husband would never leave so I left myself. With kids it might be harder but you might want to at least consider that as an option.

      I also think it’s wise to talk to a lawyer before you talk to your husband, so you know what your rights and your options are.

      Good luck! The only way out is through and you can do this!

      1. I’d be very very cautious about leaving the family home without legal advice. In my area, this will negatively impact your custody/access as whatever happens in the initial separation period often ends up being permanent.

        1. Thanks everyone. I won’t leave the house and I actually make all the family income (he’s an entrepreneur but his company makes no money and pays him a very low salary) so I don’t need to worry about that. I will probably end up having to give him money but he travels quite a bit so he may agree that the kids are best staying at home with me. When we separated before he came over to hang with them; I’d be fine with that. I had a lawyer before but it was so expensive and I got such bad service that I’m gonna see if hubby and I can figure it out and have a sort of uncontested solution. I’m a lawyer and not interested in treating him unfairly — I’ll do what I have to do to get out of the marriage.

          1. Please, please find a good lawyer and at least know what your rights are before you take action. I don’t know where you are but if you’re in California I can help you find someone. And I know somebody who is active in national family law circles so if you’ll email me at seniorattorney1 at gmail I can get you a referral.

          3. And not to pile on, but I had the attitude you had, and my former husband first agreed to a reasonable settlement, then lawyered up and litigated with me for more than a year. I wish I’d skipped the “trying to be reasonable” part and just had the lawyer handle it from the outset.

          4. I’ll third the recommendation to get a lawyer. In my experience, things are much easier during a separation because the parties are trying to play nice because they hope to work things out. In a divorce scenario, you may find your husband expectations differ significantly.

            You can cut costs by assembling all relevant materials (financials, info on kids – e.g. extra circulars costs etc), and thinking about your parameters for a settlement before you meet with the lawyer.

          5. I felt like the lawyer pushed me to be much more adversarial than I wanted to be. I’ll have to pay for my lawyer and for his so why not see if we can figure it out? I’ve done every other thing in the marriage without much of his involvement. He has no money no assets and is highly unmotivated and bad at details/executing. I can’t see him getting his own atty. if he starts fighting I’ll fight back but why not start trying to be agreeable? I mean that as an actual question not an argument. I’m planning to use some sort of divorce game theory — act nice until he doesn’t then match his level — tit for tat.

          6. In an ideal world it would be lovely to handle a divorce amicably but I think that is so so rare even with ‘normal’ parties. I think you may be underestimating the difference between separation and divorce – my parents did both and the divorce was BRUTAL whereas the separation had been basically calm seas. Tit for tat sounds like a one way road to mutually assured destruction in a divorce.

          7. If your lawyer wants to take an aggressive approach when you want to be conciliatory then that’s poor practice and you should look for a lawyer with an alternative dispute resolution focused practice. There are lawyers who mediate between divorced couples – e.g. represent both parties and do not go to court at all (turn over case to another lawyer if parties cannot resolve it themselves). That may be helpful because you want to understand the full range of options and implications as to how to structure the financial settlement (e.g. lump sum vs. ongoing alimony).

            If you’re a lawyer and planning to do it yourselves, you may run the risk of having the settlement overturned in future years if he argues that you didn’t adequately disclose to him./took advantage of your knowledge of the law.

          8. Why not see if you can figure it out first? Mainly, because you may make mistakes that are hard to come back from if you act without legal advice.

            Again, at the very least you need to have an in-depth consultation with an attorney and have a very firm grip on the best- and worst-case scenarios. It’s foolish to go into a negotiation (and that’s what this is) without knowing what the legal parameters are. Would you ever recommend a client of yours do such a thing?

          9. No! Do not do this without your own lawyer! My husband had filed for divorce from his first wife before I met him, but it took years to get the divorce because she didn’t want it and they were using a mediator. By the time he was ready to push it, she had cancer. Going to court with a spouse with cancer does not look good. He ended up throwing money at her just to get her to sign and paid her three times as much alimony as California law required, which he did not know about because the divorce mediator – a lawyer in CA – did not tell him and he didn’t think to google it because who knew there were laws about such things?

            Get a lawyer. It’s way more expensive not to have one.

      2. Not to pile on, but get a lawyer. I had a friend in very much your situation, who just assumed she would stay in the house with the children and he would move out. To put it mildly, he had a very different view. By the time they finished, she was paying so much in alimony that she could not keep the house and she ended up moving (and having joint legal and physical custody). There was probably no way to avoid that but she could have handled it much better if she had known what to expect.

        1. There is so much advice here already …. please remember that a lawyer who represents herself has a fool for a client! Get him out amicably, and quickly, if at all possible, and get another lawyer now, one that you trust and feel comfortable with. You are falling into “girl” thinking, trying to negotiate it all in your own head, and then present the other side ( your husband) with a reasonable settlement to avoid the conflict. The legal system doesn’t work that way, which you know, but you are not a lawyer in this situation, you are a wife. Yes, it is going to cost you money, which is hard to part with, but you must have representation, even if your lawyer never surfaces except to draft a settlement agreement at the end of the day. Follow your instincts when it comes to what is best for your children. If they are asking you to get a divorce, you have a very different situation from one where everyone but you is relatively happy. This is the worst age for the children to have their parents divorce, unless they also want it. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Once he is out of the house, you don’t have to rush, take your time and let yourself, and most importantly, the children, adjust, before proceeding to negotiate or file. Don’t let your lawyer rush you by filing an adversary proceeding before you and they are as ready as possible. Been there, done this, and good luck.

  22. Question for the hive: I bought a pair of casual sneakers from Nordstrom in April and they’ve already developed holes in the toe and crease of one shoe. They are definitely the correct size and I’ve worn them only for walking around the city and running errands (no actual running) so it’s surprising that they would wear this quickly. If you were in my (already clearly worn out) shoes, would you ask Nordstrom for a refund/exchange? Normally I’d eat the cost, but, for a $100 pair of shoes that have been only lightly worn, it seems ridiculous that they wouldn’t even last 6 months. Thoughts?

    1. I would do it! (and have done so with similar issues) This is why I buy things from nordstrom! $100 dollar shoes should definitely last longer than that.

    2. Absolutely not. Absurd. They have not been lightly worn, they are cheap casual shoes you got a lot of wear out of for 6 months. It is not surprising, just don’t buy this brand again. Nordstrom didn’t sell you a defective shoe. They have a generous return policy- don’t abuse it.

      1. +1

        I totally agree.

        Please do not ruin the Nordstrom return policy for the rest of us.

        They may be $100 shoes, but I suspect that price point is for a label.

        1. Tell this to the person above who is ordering 4 mattresses that all have generous return policies just to test them out! I have serious ethical issues with this.

          1. I’m that person who ordered 4 mattresses above. Can you explain your ethical issues? The companies only sell their products online, and the single most important way to determine if a mattress works for you is to sleep on it. They’re literally building their companies on the premise that you order the mattress to test it out. They donate or recycle any returned mattresses, so it’s not like they end up in a landfill somewhere.

            I’m asking seriously, is there an ethical consideration I hadn’t thought of?

          3. Yes, this. Their business model does not assume that everyone buys 4 mattresses and picks one to keep. It assumes that you buy it in good faith and return it if it doesn’t meet what they advertise or something. You are mooching off the people who treat their policy reasonably.

          4. So do you only buy one size of clothing at a time when you order online? If you’re in between two sizes, you just buy a 6 and if it doesn’t fit quite right, then you return it for the 8 and hope it fits better?

            I get only buying things you plan to keep, but when fit can only be assessed in person, it’s inherent in a business model that you will have higher rates of return as people buy multiples to decide which is the better fit. That’s not mooching, that’s part of offering those types of products online.

          5. If you are this picky, you are why mattress brick and mortar stores exist. That is the appropriate retail model for you.

            And yes, I buy one size of clothing at a time. And you know these aren’t good comparisons.

    3. Return. I returned a pair of $100 shoes from Nordstrom this summer because I’d worn them about 10 times and the foam inserts were becoming more uncomfortable with each step. Yes, I felt weird returning worn shoes, but that’s their guarantee and a large part of their appeal.

    4. I would at least ask them. I’d expect better from $100 shoes. My $100 MSRP running shoes last me 6 months and 500 miles. My $60 MSRP canvas sneakers have lasted two summers of casual walking.

    5. Thanks, all. I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t totally out of line in my thinking. FWIW, the shoes are from an actual running shoe company, not some special brand trying to capitalize on the popularity of athleisure wear. GCA, that’s what I was thinking, especially considering a pair of sneakers from Target would likely last longer than these have.

      Also, I don’t think I’m going to ruin the awesome return policy for everyone with a $100 pair of shoes. If it is such an issue for the company, they’ll either tell me I can’t return them or take it up with the company for creating a low quality product.

        1. Like I said, I wanted to see if I was being totally out of line. I’m not sure why you’re being so rude to me about this, particularly under an anonymous handle.

      2. I also think you actually are out of line in your thinking. There’s definitely folks on both sides though.

        1. Yeah, I agree with this. Sometimes it happens. And sometimes you’ll buy something super cheap and get pleasantly surprised with its wear and quality. Goes both ways.

    6. Look at the tread. If the tread is worn through and you have holes in the sneakers, then you just wore through them.

      If the tread still looks (mostly) new, then consider returning them.

    7. My mind is blown. It would never occur to me to return shoes that are uncomfortable or wear quickly. I grew up in the school of try shoes on on carpet to keep the soles nice & return only if they don’t fit or if they “break” in some way the first time you wear them (like a heel falls off or something). I would never in a million years try to return a pair of shoes I wore for almost 7 months.

    8. Yes, absolutely. I bought a sweater there last year that I wore twice and got pulls and pills. I took it back with no receipt and they took it back no questions asked. In fact, I thought I had purchased it on a CC that had since had its number changed (as it turns out I had bought it with my Nordstrom card) and they still were fine with it. This is why Nordstrom is the shiz.

  23. We’ve talked about this some in the past, but does anyone have any strategies to accept that a once-close friendship is not currently as close as you’d like it to be? We’ve been friends for 20 years; sometimes we’re very close and sometimes friend is more distant and right now it seems we’re in a more distant period. I know, intellectually, that I can’t force friend to put more effort into the friendship if they’re not in a place to do that right now. What I need to work on is really accepting that emotionally and to not take it personally. I want to keep the door open for the future. Advice?

    1. I’d focus on other friendships for the moment, and keep it friendly with once-close-friend in the meantime. If she returns to a place where she’s able to put more into the friendship, great. If not, at least you’ve cultivated other relationships that will fill that need for you.

      1. +1

        No need to “break-up” with this friend. Just realize this is normal, and happens with many (most?) relationships you will have in life.

  24. Have any of you ever tried the plus size hanky panky thongs? Are they worth the money? I’m a cusp size, usually a 16ish, and my butt is… quite large. If anyone has recommendations for other thongs that might be comfortable with me I would appreciate them! I currently wear soma vanishing edge most of the time but I’m pretty bored with them, and I wish I could finally find a thong that works for me!

    1. I think the original rise HP thongs are awesome and very forgiving of size fluctuations (I’ve been between an 8 and 12 and happy in their regular size). I’m hourglass and have a high waist so the low-rise ones aren’t comfortable to me. Try a pair and see it they work for you.

    2. Definitely go with the plus-size option. I’m a solid 16, sometimes an 18 on the bottom (i.e. bigger bottom than top), and I absolutly love the plus-size retro thong. I have a friend who is a 14, but sometimes a 12 on the bottom (i.e. smaller on bottom than top), and she’s able to wear the regular size, but the regular size doesn’t feel or look great on me.

      1. Yes definitely plus size, I wasn’t even considering the regular ones! This is really helpful thank you, the retro thong looks great.

    3. In the same vein, anyone else find the regular ones a little too big? Any luck shrinking them? Do they have an a smaller than one size fits all option anywhere?

      2. The “low rise” fits smaller than the original, but I haven’t tried the petite version.

  25. This is my second Mirena ( first one was great) but I have been having similar issues with #2, which have me wondering where I should just have it removed. I have decided ( for now) to leave it in and hope that the bleeding levels off. For me 3 months of serious pain in the neck bleeding is worth the tradeoff for 5 years of a fuss free IUD. I can always re-assess and have it removed later.

  26. FYI for those who were waiting for the new Hinge app to come out – apparently the big change was a move to charging a monthly fee. The first 3 months are free but you have to pay after that.

  27. Those people posting about Ken Bone love the past couple days should google him today.

    1. Didn’t google but why are people still talking about this guy? I don’t think there was any Ken Bone love here one way or the other. There was disagreement on whether it was making fun of him or not to dress up as Ken Bone for Halloween.

      1. I asked the question and I think at least one person commented that he seemed lovely, if undecided.

        What are they saying now? That he likes p@rn and thinks Trayvon martin had in coming? I’m not surprised that anyone who still might vote for trump has ugly thoughts about women and black people.

        1. If the article I’m reading is accurate, what he said actually isn’t as bad as what you think it was. The comment was on “Gun used to kill Trayvon Martin sold for $250,000: TV reports.” His response was basically that it was legally justified but that Zimmerman is a big old $hit bird. “Bad guy legally kills kid in self defense.”

          On the Jlaw thing, he slams the people who leaked her pics but admits he still looked at them and says it in a way I found raunchy yet hilarious. It was self deprecating like we shouldn’t do this but I did and you know you did too.

          And most people who say they don’t view p0rn are big fat liars.

          1. Yeah exactly. Seems like exactly the kind of guy who considers voting for trump.

    2. Yep, he looks to be a terrible person. Doesn’t mean his question at the debate wasn’t worthwhile.

      1. +1 – he was really just a prop asking a question lots of people wanted an answer too, right? He doesn’t matter, the question does.

        1. What was so great about his question? I mean, it was a fine question that focused on policy rather than Hillary’s emails or Trump’s temperament, but their were lots of other policy-based questions asked at the debate. I didn’t get the Bone hysteria at all even before this information about him being terrible came out.

    3. Ya know…. It surprises me in no way that some rando happens to have less than savory aspects of his past/has made gross comments. Not excusing any of it, but I’m sure that none of us would like everything we’ve ever said or done picked apart on the internet. It’s almost like people are imperfect.

      Nonetheless, I note that one of the Ken Bone tweets/memes that showed up right after the debate was “please don’t look into his past or learn anymore about him to ruin the illusion” or something to that effect. I really don’t think that anyone was seriously taking him for some sort of American Hero. No one had any actual reason to *love* him; his presence was just a fun little quirk people could enjoy together. He’s a less famous joe the plumber.

      1. It’s not the AMA that’s getting him in “trouble” so much as it is his Reddit comment history.

        Though, for what it’s worth, I don’t think his comment history says anything about him we didn’t already know which is that he’s just a typical American person who likes p0rn and said some things about the murder of Trayvon Martin that I disagree with (but which weren’t particularly inflammatory).

        1. Yeah, I was actually pleasantly surprised how benign the comments were after reading a clickbait headline somewhere… I’ll keep enjoying this meme as a bright spot in an exhausting campaign cycle.

    5. I posted that I thought he was a lovely person, based on the charming interview I saw on jimmy kimmel. He spoke (what I thought seemed sincerely) on the importance of not losing marriage equality rights, and the importance of voting in general. I haven’t dug into his Reddit history (nor do I really want to) but I am willing to amend my position to say “Ken Bones seemed like a lovely man in the one interview I saw with him but I also realize he is a regular human being and probably has good and not so good qualities like all of us.”

  28. Things that are awesome: being told the changes you made to an agreement are bull$hit by the customer when the changes should have been made months ago by your former coworker, except he didn’t actually get the approvals he should have and now you look like an idiot and the whole company looks bad.

    Happy Friday!

  29. I accepted an interview with a company through a recruiter. After doing some research about the company and determining that it has a terrible reputation, I no longer want to go forward with the interview. I need to send an email to both the recruiter and the person at the company who set up the interview. Any suggestions for wording? Thanks!

    1. Dear Interviewer and Recruiter: Upon further reflection, I don’t think this position is a good fit for me and I won’t be attending the interview we had previously scheduled. I apologize for any inconvenience. Signed, Interview Question

    2. Is this an external recruiter or an internal recruiter that works directly for the company? For an external recruiter, I’d give them a call or send an email first and let them know that you’ve changed your mind. They can then contact the company and let them know.

  30. Update on my Tinder experience: After all the encouragement and advice, I signed up last weekend. It has been a lot more fun than my original experience on Match! I love that no one can message me unless I’ve swiped on them too. And, I have my first date tonight! I’m going to spend all day stressing out about what I should wear :)

    1. Yay you! I do find the apps are generally more fun to use than the old-fashioned services , which is half the battle.

    2. Enjoy and good luck with the outfit!! I hated Match and OKC but had a really good time (as far as online dating goes) with Tinder. It was low-stakes, fun to get boosts whenever I saw that I’d matched with someone, and I had four reasonably enjoyable dates with four regular humans…with one of whom I just had my two-year anniversary!

  31. My husband hasn’t gone to the dentist in a few years (I know, I know) and saw one dentist who told him he needed a root planing and scaling procedure. That procedure was going to cost $1000 and from internet research it seemed to be a pretty serious thing, so we sought a second opinion and the second dentist recommended a debridement, which I guess is somewhere in between a regular cleaning and scaling and root planing. It’s much cheaper and this dentist says it can be done without anesthesia. He thinks this is probably all my husband will need, but they will evaluate further and he may still need the scaling and root planing after the debridement (but probably just on some individual teeth, not the whole mouth). Anyone have experience with either procedure and can tell me what to expect in terms of pain and recovery time?

    1. Your husband needs to go to a periodontist instead of a dentist and get a periodontal cleaning. It is less painful and less expensive than the scaling and root planing he received at the dentist, and will accomplish the same thing.

    2. If there is a dental school near you, it might be worth it to see them. I had my dental implant done at the U of TN dental college for only $600. It would have been about $4,000 retail. The periodontist students have been practicing dentists and have returned to school for a specialty. They know what they are doing and are supervised by a professor.

    3. I’ve had this done. They did one side of the mouth per visit, several shots of Novocain to numb the mouth. While it isn’t pain free even with the Novocaine, it hurts more along the lines of a regular cleaning. I may have taken a Tylenol after the first time, nothing the second, and was fine.

      After the procedure, I would highly recommend investing in a water pik. It really helps keep my gumline clean and my dentist confirms my gums are in perfect shape today.

  32. Anyone have this? I’m in my late 50s and was just diagnosed with Fourth Nerve Palsy. Yes, I caught it early, just as my brain couldn’t cope anymore and I was seeing poorly and double with TV watching. I haven’t had the double vision throughout the day nor when driving.

    Yes, I am trying out prisms from an ophthalmologist (MD) who specializes in strabisumus. Yes, it is helping and what I thought was just the need for my annual prescription re-do of glasses to get better acuity in all distances is also improving (I think) with the prism.

    However, I’m just terrified. This is something that will continue. There’s not much I can do, according to the docs. There is surgery … has anyone had such surgery? DH lovingly suggested we just combine the surgery for cataract and vision/astigmatism at the same time, rather than waiting for later on. Oh good for me.

    Well, TIA. I realize I’m out of the main age demographic of the site, but over the years, I know the hive has lots of collective wisdom. What’s yours?

    1. How long have you had symptoms? Are you seeing a neuro-optho or have you seen a neurologist to be sure that the 4th nerve issue is isolated?

      Most of the time, these improve on their own and people do really, really well. It sounds like you were already not very seriously affected, and if the prisms are helping that’s great. It should get better. Give it time.

      I definitely would not be thinking about surgery now. If you are concerned, get a second opinion from a neuro-opthalmologist at the closest major medical center. It is a very very rare surgery so never consider doing it unless it is recommended by MULTIPLE doctors and do not do it with anyone who hasn’t done many of the same surgery (specifically that nerve!).

      But you do not sound like you need surgery at all ….. you don’t know this but many who get these nerve palsies are much more seriously affected.

      And definitely do not combine with ?cataract/?vision surgery at the same time. Each of those surgeries is completely different and very specialized and not even done by the same doctors. Totally nonsensical, but that’s a practical DH for you!

      It will get better. Give it time.

      1. Yes indeed, DH is an engineer…but a Renaissance man in that he is a master at home renovations and union-carded musician. :) You did make me smile with that one.

        Thank you for the information on the surgeries. I’m so afraid of an “oops” happening in a disastrous way.

        I’ve had erratic symptoms all summer … it started getting more frequent in the past month, and I needed a general new rx for acuity, so off I went to my eye doc who referred to the strabismus specialist. Her information included telling me that clearly my “brain just can’t accommodate any longer.”

        I am in touch with my neurologist as I had a brain MRI in 2012 for other reasons. Thanks for that. I live in a city with the world’s largest and best rated medical center; I’ll start my networks going on a neuro-opthalmologist. Didn’t know that existed!

        The perspective that my situation is not a full on range of impact/limitations also helps. Perspective is hard when you go from being a professional in an allied medical field to a patient! :)
        Anon, I bless and thank you!

  33. Etiquette websites don’t seem to have caught up to feminist ideals so I’m asking you all. Which is the best way to address a married couple where the woman changed her name:

    1. Mr. Sam and Mrs. Sally Smith
    2. Mr. Sam and Ms. Sally Smith
    3. Mr. Sam Smith and Mrs. Sally Smith
    4. Mr. Sam Smith and Ms. Sally Smith
    5. Mr. and Mrs. Sam Smith

    “The Smiths” is not an option because kids.

    2. #3

      or: Sam and Sally Smith

      Side note: it slightly drives me crazy that we (society) always default to the man’s name first. Like no one says “Mrs. Sally Smith and Mr. Sam Smith”

      1. I actually grew up being taught that if you do just the names without titles it’s proper to do “Sally and Sam Smith” and if you do the Mr. and Mrs. it’s proper to do it with the Mr. first. I don’t know where I came up with that or if it’s true. But that’s the way I’ve always done it.

      2. I actually always default to female first and I have no idea why. Lots of friends have laughed about it when they get their letters. It is odd enough to get people’s attention. The only reason I think I default to female first is I’m usually handling the business stuff in my house so I started by writing my name first. I’d leave off titles and do

        Sally and Sam Smith or Sam and Sally Smith.

        If you want to get a big chuckle, and I have done this before, Mr. and Mrs. Sally Smith.

        1. In India, wedding invitations are always written this way (e.g. Rita Patel and Aziz Ansari warmly invite you to the wedding of their son…). I really like this and as a result, I always default to the woman first.

      3. I was taught never to separate the man’s first and last names…so Mrs. Sally and Mr. Sam Smith would be the way I’d address it.

    3. I like something you haven’t listed: Mr. and Mrs. Sam and Sally Smith (assuming neither is a doctor).

      1. +1

        This is what I use. I have no idea if etiquette or grammar has signed off, but it sounds best to my ear and avoids the potential confusion of “The Smiths” and also the ickiness of “Mr. and Mrs. Sam Smith.”

    4. Feminist etiquette hasn’t caught up with my mother, either, because I told her I wanted to do some variant of option 1-4 for my wedding invitations and she about had a heart attack over “not proper.” But I think either 1 or 3. (I told my mother she could do whatever she wanted for people her age, but my friends were being addressed as two independent people).

      1. I think it’s an individual thing not an age thing. My mom is in her sixties and she’d have a heart attack if I tried calling her Mrs Dad’s First + Last Name.

      2. I tried to address invites to “Mrs. and Mr. X YZ” and got the same reaction. On the upside, I was “disqualified” from any tasks requiring envelopes after that.

      3. The beauty of planning a wedding far away from family was that nobody commented on my invitations before I addressed them. My MIL did send me her guests names as Mr. and Mrs. Male First Last Name and I addressed those ones as she listed. But for everyone else, I addressed them without the Mr. and Ms./Mrs. and just used first and last names. I addressed them in the way that I normally refer to people, based on how close I was to each person so sometimes the woman’s name was first and sometimes the man’s name. Nobody said anything so I’m choosing to believe that I didn’t offend anyone with my modern notions.

        1. Yea, fortunately or unfortunately, my mom is a good calligrapher and is addressing the invitations. Because clearly we can’t have non-calligraphied invitations (my mom is old-school southern, as may be obvious)

    5. Emily Post says that if the wife has a title and the couple uses the same last name it is

      Dr. Sally and Mr. Samuel Smith

      So by analogy, your #3 or #4 would be correct depending on the woman’s preferred social title, which may be different from the title she uses professionally (I am Ms. at work and Mrs. socially).

      I would go with Mr. and Mrs. Samuel Smith for your parents’ generation to avoid ruffled feathers.

      1. Oops, I meant by analogy your #1 or #2 would be proper for a couple with the same last name.

    6. 1) Mrs. Sally Smith and Mr. Samuel Smith, or
      2) Mrs. Sally and Mr. Samuel Smith

      I like the latter because it’s traditional in that the lady goes first and the man sticks with his name like in a casual address (which would be Sally and Sam Smith).

    7. I don’t ever like being called “Mrs.” so I would prefer Digby Last and Hub Last or Ms. Digby Last and Mr. Hub Last if titles must be used. Would either of those be an option?

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