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Updated: Aug 3, 2023 207 Comments · by

Coffee Break: Folded Strap Slingback Pump

Coffee Break

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woman models beige kitten pump slingbacks with unusual folded detail on the vamp of the shoe

These Prada pumps caught my eye recently — I love the low heel and the unusual folded detail on the vamp of the shoe, almost as if it's a deconstructed bow.

They're available in beige and black for $1320 — you can find them at Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, and Prada.

Looking for something more affordable? These low pumps from Calvin Klein and Trotters are both under $100, and MM.LaFleur has a bunch of colors in their low pump ($350).

Sales of note for 9.30.24

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. SSJD

    What/who might help me convert a hat into a bag? Seamstress? Shoe repair? Milliner? The hat is a beautiful, woven Lorna Murray hat with a brim too big to wear. But it would make a gorgeous bag! (It would fill a hole in my handbag collection, too.) I am not sure who would help me do that? I’m in DC if anyone has specific suggestions.

    • Anonymous

      I’d look on Etsy for someone who hand makes bags that look like what you’re hoping for, and then contact the person to see if they can do a custom bag out of your hat.

    • Anonymous

      Rago Bros. In Morristown NJ. They are bag magicians and work via mail/FedEx.

    • Anonymous

      You might need a milliner, and you can see if a local tailor or seamstress could point you in the right direction.
      I would go to someone in person instead of online, if it were me, just based on the complexity of the project.

    • PolyD

      The blogger The Directrice seems to have a very capable tailor. I don’t know if she could something like that, but might know who could.

  2. Anon

    Clearly too sexy if you ever want to be taken seriously as a professional.

    /s

  3. Moose

    Question out of curiosity/venting into the void: What is a tolerable about of inability with executive functioning from your superiors/bosses? Meaning, ability to follow up on tasks, schedules, manage email, paperwork, follow up, etc.
    I’m in an unusual situation where I work for my dad, who, to be fair, is 75 and not very internet/tech literate. He has not been able (or been motivated enough?) to create a system that works for him long-term. He is very good at the job he does, but the peripheral tasks are not his skillset. But, he has always had staff (and my mother) to help manage and deal with the administrative parts of his life and work. As his admin person at work and daughter, this can be very frustrating, as he has very little ability to follow through of tasks without constant reminders/doing 90% of the task for him. He has essentially communicated to me that it is my job to ask him over and over again in order to complete tasks – but, in my mind, aren’t you a grownup? How can you function this way? This dynamic feels very parental. (Important note – I have gotten a new job and will be moving on soon! So don’t worry about me.)
    My question is – have you had upper-level individuals in your work life that expect this level of handholding through their job? And if so, what do you think are the bare minimum expectations for senior-level people to handle? I totally get it that for busy people, their life needs to be outsourced, but I have a hunch that there are a group of older (most likely men) who have their whole lives managed for them. Maybe they’ve been at a company a million years and it’s baked into how things run. But I feel like, in 2023, is there a bare minimum you expect people to be able to handle as a working person?

    • Anon

      I have worked with female partners in their late 50s who are like this. My thought is that if they are the boss, they can demand whatever unreasonable items they want. The employee can either do it, or find another job.

      • Anonymous

        +1 – your job is basically whatever your supervisor says it is, within legal limits.

      • Anne-on

        I have worked with what we dubbed ‘brains in a box’ since the beginning of my career – super duper smart people who you shipped to clients, did their client work, and then went home but could not manage anything outside of that. Couldn’t print a file, attach something to an email, needed to have a folder with print outs of ALL their tickets/confirmation documents/itinerary for their trips, etc.
        The more senior you get (and the more EA support you have) the worse it is.

          • OP

            This! This describes him perfectly. But – he’s the owner of a small business, and unfortunately can’t opt out. Also stealing this phrase.

    • Anonymous

      There’s no getting through to these types of people, the only option is just to get a new job. I had a boss like this, she would literally schedule meetings where I would just read email memos and briefing notes out loud to her because she didn’t want to read them herself.

    • Vicky Austin

      I think this is just sort of a generational difference in the view of what admin staff should do. Older folks still think of “secretaries,” and secretaries managed the entirety of the calendar and the communications because there was no way the Very Important People could take their phone or email with them to the business lunch in 1982. That’s different now, obviously, but maybe your dad hasn’t caught up, especially if he’s not tech literate (and possibly insecure about it).

      • Anne-on

        I think it’s a lot of learned helplessness too. I work with plenty of 50-somethings who are still unable to do anything even vaguely admin related. It’s not an age thing, it’s very much a how much support they’ve had and for how long. The ex-startup folks can do it all, the ones who’ve had an EA for 20 years are helpless.

    • Anon

      I think you probably are more frustrated with him because he’s your dad AND your boss. If my boss were like this, and I have had bosses like this, I’d consider whether I was being paid well enough to do the tasks they needed me to do. You’re wrapped up in your emotions about it because of the family aspect. Maybe you should consider working for someone who you’re not related to, and letting your dad hire someone who isn’t emotionally invested.

      • OP

        Oh, 1000%, which is why I mentioned I am transitioning to another job. I have definitely figured out this setup is not ideal, and it’s hard not to take personally that he cannot complete complete tasks he says he’ll do, show up on time, keep track of paperwork, communicate, etc. I guess my curiosity lay with how others felt about competency in upper management, since I am in this scenario. Very aware that our relationship colors my feelings, though.

      • OP

        Oh, 1000% correct. I am very aware that my experience with him as a boss is colored by the fact that he’s my dad, which is one of the reasons I got another job. When your boos is someone close to you it’s hard not to take it personally when someone cannot keep appointments, follow-through with tasks, communicate properly, be on time, repeatedly, for years.

    • AnonSatOfc

      I had a boss like this who was in their 40s (so no generational/technological gap). They were not a good boss and requiring me to babysit answers was not a good fit for me, so I moved on.
      At any point and for any reason, you can decide your boss’ style doesn’t work for you and move on. Flipside – they’re the boss, so often you’re going to need to adapt to how they work, even if it’s duplicative, annoying and nonsensical.

    • Anonymous

      I am one of these people like your father and I’ve yet to find an assistant who made a dent in my EF issues. If I could find someone who could pick up my shortcomings and understand where I’m getting stuck, they would be like gold to me.

      • Anonymous

        Or you could be an adult and take responsibility for yourself by implementating project management systems rather than making your poor admin babysit you like a toddler.

        • Anne-on

          I have zero problem with an exec hiring someone to do executive function stuff for them as long as they pay appropriately. That leads to the posts you’ll sometimes see about ‘secretaries’ making mid-6 figures – the people they work for see the extreme value they provide and hire/pay for the equivalent of project managers for those roles.

          • Anonymous

            Yes sorry I wasn’t clear, this is okay for the EAs who earn 150k+ /year, not acceptable for the ones earning 40

      • OP

        I appreciate that my dad has issues in areas of his life – but unlike you, he doesn’t seem to find them a problem that he has to deal with or find solutions for. If he did, it would make things a lot easier to manage. I hope you find what you need!

        • Anon

          Honestly, I’m not trying to accuse your dad of being sexist, but he’s a product of his environment and this has always just been more acceptable for a man of his generation (or any generation) than for a woman.

          I had a woman boss who was like this a good 20 years ago – she was organized but had an assistant who printed every one of her emails and delivered them to her in her office, boss read them, hand-wrote a response, and assistant typed it up and sent it. It worked for the two of them, but so many people were aghast that she operated this way. And she answered every single email, even if with just a “Thank you.” Meanwhile, the men at her level behaved similarly and no one batted an eye.

          • Anon

            I also worked for this woman. Except my version sat next to me at my cube desk and dictated over my shoulder because her office was so stacked with boxes of files (printed out emails) you couldn’t walk into it. They stopped giving her a computer bc she never turned it on.

            My current boss almost never answers emails except for a few people (her boss, our GC, and her function execs). She knows she sucks administratively but let me tell you how much I use it to my advantage. I figured her out early and I help her out so much by being her organized direct report, keeping her on top of things in my purview that she needs to stay on top of, etc. She LOVES me and it works great for me. I don’t actually work that hard and I make a lot of money and am extremely well thought of. It works great for me.

    • anon

      I had this with a previous boss. It was awful. Her executive functioning skills had always been questionable, but some mental health issues made the problem much much worse.

    • Anon

      I worked at an organization where the president didn’t personally do email and would have all emails printed out for him and would type or write up replies for somebody else to send. But he founded the organization in the early 80s. I don’t think it would fly if you were bringing in somebody new.

      • Panda Bear

        Ha! I work at an organization with a president who does this too. Emails are printed for him to read, and he writes up replies or new messages in a notebook for his admin to type and send.

        • Vicky Austin

          I worked with a woman (more of an EA role, ironically) who would print email attachments she received and scan them.

      • Anon

        One of my previous executive directors refused to learn to use Microsoft Outlook’s calendar (or load it onto her phone), and kept track of her (many) daily appointments with a paper calendar, like an old-school Day Runner. Which I didn’t realize they still sold, until I saw hers. Her poor admin basically spent her entire day running interference with people who would send the ED meeting notices on Outlook – a few times a day she’d go in and look at Outlook, and write everything down on a piece of paper and transfer it to the ED’s planner. Sometimes the calendar pages would have holes because things had been erased and written over so much. Of course, with this being the modern age and not 1987, sometimes people would change meetings on the fly and they’d have to call the ED’s assistant to relay the information to the ED, who was sometimes in a completely different place than the meeting was being held.

        I will just say, to me it is fundamentally disrespectful to support staff to resist technological advancement to this level, where a human being is spending her time babysitting your paper calendar (or in the examples above, someone’s email). This ED went through multiple admins because the work was so tedious, and also just so unnecessary. Additionally, the ED didn’t want to look technologically incompetent, so the admins would basically have to lie to people – “oh, you changed the meeting location? I think something’s wrong with her primary phone and that’s why she isn’t there; she didn’t get the update. I’ll call her.” When that was an outright lie – the ED never checked her phone for meeting info and thus didn’t know anything unless someone called her.

        There’s not being completely comfortable with tech – I sometimes feel this way! – and then there’s being a Luddite who is a barrier to other people getting work done because you won’t put yourself out of your comfort zone, and learn something new. If you’re in the latter camp, please think about what you’re doing to other people so that you can do what you’ve always done, that you like doing, and you thus don’t have to learn, change or grow.

        • anon

          +1 million to your second paragraph. I don’t care how high-powered you are; this behavior is not cool.

    • Anonymous

      Hahahhhahahah girl what? He’s the boss he decides what to do. If it doesn’t
      Work for You quit.

      • Anonymous

        American work culture is so toxic, you don’t get to be an abusive useless dolt just because you’re the boss. In basically every civilized country this would be against labour law.

        • Anonymous

          which part is against labor laws? a little toxic maybe, but paying someone to nag you seems legal.

    • LA Law

      I completely understand the frustration. At my old firm job, I had a junior partner who routinely called or emailed me to ask questions that she could answer herself in less time (example: “when is the discovery due in X case?” when she has access to the same calendar I do.) As an attorney I pushed back because I could not bill for acting as her legal secretary. But she asked me because her secretary was busy and did not have time for this and could get away with ignoring her.

      That said, there were partners (particularly our trial attorneys) who are genuinely very, very busy. They can and do expect staff to handle their calendars (including reminders), emails, travel arrangements. etc. to their precise demands. And we expect the staff that is being paid to do that job to do it and not complain about why the partners cannot handle basic tasks themselves. Because the partners could; but they earn millions. often work 80 hours a week and are entitled to outsource that work.

      In essence, your job is what your boss says your job is and what you are being paid to do (unless it is illegal).

      And now I am in-house and am needing to learn new habits because a lot of the tasks I was accustomed to handling myself I am now expected to hand off to our admin because my time is valuable, and I should not spend it making travel arrangements or setting up meetings.

      • Runcible Spoon

        This. It can be a status marker, where the boss has risen to the level where she is unable to email a document or set up a meeting on a call with a client (and neither is the client), so they’ll each get their support staff to work things out. If the boss did everything herself, she might not be respected by her peers, or viewed as so powerful as she would like to project. In other words, the boss gets to schmooze, be polite and hospitable, and then turn to the staff to handle the details. That frees the boss up to do “boss” stuff, and insulates the boss if there are any snags in the administration of their job (“Oh, I leave all that for my admin to handle; let’s see what he/she says when they return from leave.”) Junior workers don’t always “get” these power moves. Yes, the boss “could” photocopy that document herself, but that would undermine the boss’s status.

        • Anon

          You have this so wrong. It’s not a status thing, it’s a time thing. The executive director or CEO should not be spending his or her time on copies. This is why there are administrative support staff.

          • bird in flight

            +1000 it’s 100% a time thing. I’d also add that it’s a focus thing. As you move up an organization it’s likely your role shifts to bigger projects, strategizing, and managing. All of the admin tasks lead to death to focus by a million cuts

          • Runcible Spoon

            It’s both a time thing and a status thing, in my experience. (Your experience may vary.)

    • Anonymous

      Executive time is valuable. So what you see as handholding could on the flip side be deemed as “tasks that most anyone can do” so should be delegated. Instead of creating schedules, it may be that his time would be better spent on things like generating new business. I don’t think that’s unusual at all. In fact, the higher up someone is (like a company owner), the more frequently you’ll see routine tasks get taken off their plate.

      It could also be that you are being given some of the “follow-up tasks” or other grunt work because he wants you to prove to others that there is no nepotism going on.

      Frankly, it sounds like it’s good you are leaving. Asking you to act as a project manager shouldn’t be met with “but you’re a grownup.” Even just questioning whether the company owner should be late to meetings seems weird if he weren’t your father.

      • OP

        I intentionally didn’t want get into the nuts and bolts of our dynamic, but to clarify, I have no problem being a project manager, and I totally understand that exec. time is valuable and they don’t need to spend time arranging an Outlook calendar. That would be no problem. Unfortunately, our workflow is such that I can’t rely on him to review documents when he says he will, make decisions or complete tasks needed (that only he can do) by a deadline, or show up to meetings I have set. He has a habit of saying he will do things and not do them. And he can’t/won’t use tech tools to help himself. He can’t use email to assist him. He doesn’t have an analog method that works for him. He frequently loses paperwork. He’s not able to organize himself effectively. On top of it, he’s pretty emotionally unintelligent, and mostly avoids any conflict and doesn’t “see” or acknowledge other’s feelings, which makes any frustration larger. We’re a small business (20 people) and he’s not a C-suite guy, so the dynamics are different than many other’s experiences here.
        Yes, I have added feelings because he is my dad, and that adds complications. I realize that. I Just had curiosity about others’ workplaces and if they find people this this in their environment, and how it works.

        • anon

          Is it inattention or overwhelmed? For overwhelmed, bright colored paper, notes written in obnoxious sharpie in chair. It is old school, but I’ve managed up plenty of times like that – e.g., “YOU NEED TO SIGN THIS BEFORE LUNCH” with document underneath. For inattention types, I like to send weekly checklist regarding what’s needed again with obnoxious ALL CAPS items to draw attention. But, yes, there are more of him than you know in the workplace. And, I fully acknowledge that I am now one of them and have had wonderful assistants who backstop me.

        • Vicky Austin

          I might suggest that episode of the Office where Michael has to sign three batches of things on the same Friday and Pam has to remind him seventeen squillion times (the “perfect storm”). As therapy. For you.

        • Anon

          At some point, maybe it just doesn’t work?

          If he’s so unwilling to learn, change, or grow that his business falls apart because he won’t keep up with the times and can’t hire anyone willing to be his work nanny, failure may actually be the logical end game in this situation.

    • Anon

      He may have done better when he was younger as short term memory is the first to go. It is reasonable for him to expect staff to help him do the things.

    • anon

      Are you seriously complaining about working for your 75 year old father? Really?

  4. Anon

    Help me navigate an awkward social situation. My friend expressed in a group chat that something our friend group was doing hurt her feelings. I sent a separate text to apologize. She then sent a bunch of follow up texts in response elaborating on why said thing hurt her feelings and felt unfair. I personally felt like even the initial text from her felt like an overreaction, but having my apology met with a bunch of additional confrontational texts leaves me feeling a bit exhausted. I don’t really want to engage, and since I’ve already apologized I don’t really know what else I can do.

    Background: she went on a date with a woman who both looks very similar to our close friend and has a bunch of similar niche interests to said friend. We remarked on the similarities in kind of a ‘wow, what a coincidence.’ She said she’d appreciate if we don’t ‘tease her and make her feel judged/insecure.’ I think calling it teasing was an overstatement, but I apologized since I don’t want her to feel bad. However, getting a second series of texts about it in response to my apology makes it feel like she didn’t accept my apology but I don’t know what she expects from me. How do you guys navigate situations like this?

    • Vicky Austin

      Hmm. What about “Thanks for the additional context; I’ll be mindful of this in future. Did your date go well?”

    • go for it

      This sounds like a her problem….follow your own best thoughts not to engage.
      This too shall pass.

    • Anon

      I’d keep the responses non committal. She sounds like she just wants to vent, but if you don’t want to be the ventee, just barely respond, don’t apologize more, and move on.

    • ThirdJen

      Sounds like the lady protesteth too much. It can be hard to be attracted to the same genders as your friend group and wonder if your friends thing you’re crushing/hitting on them. I’d simply tell her I don’t want her to feel bad and let the conversation drop. This isn’t a you thing.

    • eertmeert

      Hm, that is tough. Especially since this doppelganger is of a close friend, I guess it could sound like a backdoor accusation of her wanting more than friendship with your close friend. If instead you were all saying, wow, we all love our close friend, she is so interesting, and how cool that there are more people like her – it might be helpful to clarify that.

    • Pompom

      Perhaps she felt like your apology–which it’s not clear you meant? (“I personally felt like even the initial text from her felt like an overreaction”)–was a welcome invititation to have a conversation, which in her emotional, vulnerable state probably meant “here’s the context and why, thanks for apologizing and creating a space for me to be heard.”

      Apologies aren’t always the end of things; sometimes, they are the beginning of the conversation.

      • Anon

        OP here – I genuinely was sorry for having made her feel bad, though I don’t think what I said/did warranted a bunch of confrontational texts while I’m at work. Maybe this is callous, but as a former high-conflict person, I have started adopting the mindset that we’re not responsible for each other’s feelings and it’s not always mature to vent at a person about how we feel as though it’s their fault. But maybe this is how other friends navigate conflict / it’s not as inappropriate as I feel like it is…

        • Vicky Austin

          Well, turnabout is fair play. She’s not responsible for your feelings about receiving confrontational texts at work. If that’s bothering you, you can decide to deal with this whole issue while not at work.

          Without knowing more about the content of the texts, it’s hard to judge whether she’s being inappropriate. But, as has been said all over this thread, she’s probably just venting. That’s allowed. And you’re similarly allowed to prefer not to encourage her or grovel. So I’d make the text equivalent of a noncommittal “mhm” and let it go.

          • Anon

            +100000000000

            I don’t have any sympathy for OP being interrupted at work. She absolutely has the ability to put her phone down and ignore her friend.

        • Anon

          Reading through this thread it doesn’t seem you are actually sorry. Seems you think she overreacted and only apologized to placate her. Maybe she senses that and hence the follow up texts.

          • Anon

            It’s the action that counts. We have all been in situations where we think someone overreacted and we apologized anyway. That’s called being a good friend and the other friend shouldn’t pull at that thread. As long as it was phrased sincerely, it’s enough. It’s absolutely exhausting to deal with people who will parse the tone of an apology instead of just accepting it.

      • Books books

        This was my inclination as well. I don’t think a person is required to accept an apology in any certain way (though the apologizer isn’t under an obligation to grovel!)

        I would probably say something like, “I understand, and I really didn’t mean to make you feel that way.” And then give her space to process. I say this assuming that the purpose of the apology was to repair the relationship/misunderstanding with her and not to determine who is right or wrong.

      • Anon

        I was wondering this, too. I’ve had people “apologise” in ways that were clearly fake apologies. Think, someone was “joking” about wanting to jump in the sack with my then-fiance, now husband. “Sorry you were upset, I thought I was hilarious and it’s not cheating if you aren’t married” was her fake apology. Kind of wonder here if there was a tone to those comments or they were accompanied by smirks. People lose friendships over this stuff.

        The best apology is straightforward: I’m sorry and I won’t do it again.

    • Anonymous

      Sounds like an anxiety spiral. She was anxious about posting the initial message. After she posted, she felt guilty and anxious that everyone will be mad at her. But she tells herself she was justified in posting and she should be proud of herself and and and [continue anxiety spiral]. Then you messaged her and were probably the first one to respond. So now you get treated to her internal monologue. If that sounds about right to you, respond with something reassuring like, thanks for bringing this to our attention I will be sure to be mindful, hope your date was awesome!

    • Anon

      I had a similar situation – a close friend would get mad about things that I perceived to be very minor and would just keep hammering, hammering, and hammering even after receiving an apology. She would take these incredibly small interpersonal conflicts (e.g., a difference of opinion on the importance of sleep training, a slightly snippy text) and then relate them to long-standing character flaws she believes I have. We eventually had a blow-up fight about it and almost lost the friendship. I told her I wasn’t going to keep defending my character and that she was free to walk away anytime if she felt like being friends with me was so challenging. My advice? Say something like “you mentioned that X was hurtful and I sincerely apologized. I’m not going to keep discussing it at this point” and then hold your ground. Don’t start justifying or telling her to get over it or you’ll just wind up as frustrated as I was. Just don’t engage.

    • Anonymous

      Omg I don’t. That is way too much drama. I’d ignore her follow up and also let her drift. Life is too short.

    • Anonymous

      Since you’ve already apologized, there is no need to keep it going by saying anything else.

    • Anon

      I think the other commenters here are being incredibly harsh and you’re at least equally in the wrong. I don’t see anything wrong with her original text (and I hate when friends judge the people I’m dating. And if most of the people in your friend group are coupled the group’s reaction would be exponentially more annoying and judgmental.) I also think it was good of you to apologize in a separate text. It’s hard to open up when you’re feeling hurt, and it may have opened a Pandora’s Box for her that she wasn’t expecting – that’s not your fault. But the rest of her texts sound more explanatory and less “confrontational” to me, and I think you may be putting a “high conflict” label on someone who seems in fact pretty uncomfortable with conflict and expressing her feelings. If this is the first time she’s said something like this, then cutting her off for expressing that you’ve hurt her would make you the bad guy in this situation, not her. I would emphasize your sincere apology, promise to just be supportive of her first dates in the future, and move on. If she really can’t get past it then the calculus may be different, but at this point this is pretty textbook conflict resolution and if you value the friendship I think you need to take her feelings to heart without labeling her high conflict for one disagreement.

      • Anon

        I agree with this. I think OP is totally misinterpreting her friend because she’s feeling defensive and ready for a fight.

    • anon

      I can’t believe people expect to have conversations like this over text.

      Life and emotions and interpretations are more complicated than an “I’m sorry” text can satisfy.

  5. Books books

    I’m currently reeling after a surprise twist in a book I just finished. The twist actually made me HATE the book, and now I’m irritated I spent 20 of my precious hours on this earth listening to it.

    A fun diversion— What books made you feel this way?

    (Mine is below!)

    Mine was The Ferryman by Justin Cronin

    • Vicky Austin

      Ooh, interesting!

      I listened to a James Bond audiobook, not remotely what I would normally choose, but it was narrated by David Tennant in his natural Scottish accent (swoon). Also it took place partially in the Alps and Bond had to ski away from the bad guys, which I enjoyed.

      And then I was looking up Ian Fleming on Wikipedia, can’t remember why, and clicked over to the page about the story I was reading (which was my own mistake), and read that in the next chapter, the Bond girl was going to die to make the plot come full circle, and I just couldn’t finish it after that. Felt unnecessarily misogynistic.

      • Anonymous

        The books were published in the 50s and 60s for a male audience, lol…’unnecessarily mysogynistic’ pretty much sums up the entire series…

        • Anon

          +1!

          And I think the Bond girls usually die. That’s how he gets out of having to commit to them!

          • Anonymous

            They do, but, Bond is a total womanizer, so he would never commit even if they did live, lol.

        • Vicky Austin

          Oh for sure – in hindsight it probably should have occurred to me! It just completely erased my enjoyment of the story, which is what OP was asking about.

    • Anonymous

      Daisy Darker. It sucked me in from the beginning and I spent an entire Saturday reading the whole thing. I was so annoyed at the ending.

    • Anon

      It’s my guilty pleasure to read negative Goodreads reviews for books I dislike (not the pile-on ones from activists who haven’t read the book, but the ones from people who hate the same things I do). I won’t name specific books so as not to insult the authors, but a few things I hate: non-fiction books that don’t have enough content to be 300 pages so they fill it with endless filler and tangents, fiction books that rely on alternating perspectives instead of sufficient plot development for one main story, try-hard books that turn nouns into verbs when they really shouldn’t (latest example: “the moss furred the stone”), and books that don’t use quotation marks for dialogue.

      • Nudibranch

        Oh me too. The negative reviews are so interesting. They tell you much more about the book than the gushing 4 or 5 stars.

    • Anon

      Maybe not a twist, but my pet peeve as a reader is an unreliable narrator. It worked okay in Gone Girl, but in every other instance it just annoys the hell out of me.

      • Explorette

        Oh yes! Code Name Verity annoyed the heck out of me for this. Because I knew that was what was going on, and then hearing the narrator talk about herself that way was so stupid! The entire plot was stupid and this just made it unbearable to me. Boy, I really, really hated that book!

      • Anon

        Same, I really liked Gone Girl but way too many people have tried to copy this style, almost all unsuccessfully.

    • Anonymous

      The Sea King. It was a sequel to The Winter King, which was great. Fantasy romance isn’t my usual genre, but I figured why not. Really felt like they broke the contract for an HEA though.

      (SPOILERS!!! – 70% into the book, the main heroine and her sisters are kidnapped by the bad guy and then repeatedly violated for like 2 weeks. hero rescues her (but not sisters, who they think are dead) and within 24 hours they’re having amazing sex and getting married. WTAF. It was a 2017 book so I don’t think the sisters’ books are coming, which almost makes it worse because they’re forever trapped with the bad guy.)

    • Anon

      I just finished a book where the ending felt very rushed and slapdash, like the author had just run out of ideas and needed a way to wrap up the story. It was really frustrating because I had enjoyed the book up until then! It was The Elegance of the Hedgehog by Muriel Barbery.

    • Anonymous

      No specific books recently (mainly because I no longer read much fiction). I hate when a mystery can be solved by page 10 or the plot twist is clear before the end of the first chapter. I also really dislike villans whose tragic back story somehow excuses their actions. I have stopped reading so many books over the years because of those things…

      • Anon

        I’m the same way about excuses. Sometimes I feel like there are books that were written to persuade me to countenance terrible choices or actions as understandable or sympathetic, and to me it feels just the same way as when someone tries to do this in person… because they want to get away with more of the same.

        I regret reading some urban fantasy where a main character struggling with mental illness badly and tragically neglects an animal she’s caring for while being seduced by some creature. I still feel more sorry for the animal than for any of her problems.

        I also read a relatively high brow vampire novel that I thought was doing some clever commentary about racism against Slavic people filtered through vaguely anti-Soviet sentiment, and eventually realized the book was just enthusiastically participating. Somehow that felt a lot worse than if I had just gone into it expecting to encounter certain prejudices.

        • Vicky Austin

          I’m so curious about this “high-brow vampire novel.” Was it The Historian by any chance?

          • Anon

            Yes! I liked the book overall but found myself reinterpreting some things that I thought were being lamp shaded and concluded weren’t really. I could also be sensitive because way too many people have tried to explain the Ukraine invasion to me in terms of ethnic stereotypes I had thought were long outdated.

    • Anne-on

      The second in the Locked Tomb trilogy, Harrow the Ninth, did this for me. I deleted it off my kindle I was so angry at the book. Other people love it so maybe just me?

      • Anon

        Ah!I loves that book! I have friends who weren’t crazy about it but did love Nona so maybe give the third one a try?

    • anon

      How funny – I usually find that books redeem themselves in the ending rather than disappoint! I was so unimpressed with Booth by Karen Joy Fowler in the first half, but it made its way onto my “Keep” bookshelf by the end.

      Books that did disappoint me:
      – Nora Webster by Colm Toibin/Mothers and Sons by Colm Toibin. I liked the movie Brooklyn so much I decided to read the author’s other works. It turns out Toibin’s vision of Ireland is a land full of unhappy women who hate the intrusion of friends and family into their lives. I couldn’t relate at all
      – Upheaval by Jared Diamond. The fact that this book got published is the clearest marker of entitled white male privilege that I’ve ever seen. It’s not a book, it’s a draft, in which he pontificates on the geopolitical histories of countries he barely knows with shockingly little research to support his theories. If it hadn’t been a well intentioned gift, I would have given up within the first 100 pages
      – Katherine Mansfield’s short stories. Characters with ruined lives suffer more hardship. It was just so, so depressing but the writing was good so some of the stories were stuck in my head for weeks afterwards

    • Anon

      The Maisie Dobbs books were recommended here over and over and I finally picked up the first one and was later mad I read it. Avoiding real spoilers, bursting into song at that moment, really? Just…no. That coupled with the very, very odd “empath” stuff was very off-putting to me. I resented the time I spent reading it.

    • Anon

      Marilynne Robinson’s Gilead; I really felt conned by that one like she was just trying to sneak in some apologism for behavior which I feel is common in the kind of faith communities she was describing partly because of the kind of apologism it receives there!

      • Anonymous

        That was so bad. I had been such a fan that I bought that one on pre-order. Never again. From now on, Riley Sager is only getting one of my Audible credits if the reviews back it. (Also, how awful was that narrator? She sounded like she was 80. The talk about the guy taking of his shirt on the dock and stuff with her narration made me want to barf.)

    • Anon

      I felt the same way about The Ferryman. I didn’t really love the book even before the twist, but hated it after, which is a shame because I really loved his Passage trilogy. And I agree with the poster above about Harrow the Ninth- loved the first book, the second book really bugged me, and I got about 10% through the third book before giving up entirely.

      A lot of people here really liked The Marriage Portrait, but I felt sort of similarly about the end there too. It wasn’t enough to completely hate the book, but it significantly reduced my overall opinion of it. Not only was the twist very obvious, but it made me hate the main character and felt like it betrayed the power of the overall story.

      • Books books

        It makes me feel better you said you liked The Passage trilogy. This was the first book by the author I’d read. Perhaps I’ll give him another read and try The Passage. A good friend of mine loves it, and I will admit I was questioning his taste for a moment :)

    • PolyD

      Not really a plot twist, but I just read The Exiles, about women transported to Australia in the 1800s and I didn’t like how it ended.

      Basically, there was a fair amount of focus on one character (a young aboriginal girl) in the beginning and I was really curious how her story would turn out, and then the author just… dropped it. Near the end of the book, she showed up when she ran into another character and her entire life was summed up in maybe 3 sentences. Quite disappointing.

    • editor

      Save What’s Left. I made it about halfway through, then quit and same as you, resented the time I wasted.

    • Betsy

      I felt that way about Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow’s final twist. It’s like – those characters have already had an entire book of trauma thrown their way and then you do THIS?!?

      • Anon

        I don’t really remember a big twist but I hated that whole book. Most disappointing read of 2023 for me.

    • Anan

      Gone girl. So much hated the twist in Gone Girl.
      Also The Patient.
      *Spoiler*

      Unreliable narrator really make me feel like I’ve wasted my time.

    • Anonymous

      Vinegar Girl. I don’t know if hated is the right word but I could believe the end was the end, if that makes sense. So much so that I also went to Goodreads to see if anyone else felt similarly and yes, yes they did.

    • GotToGo

      Not exactly the same, but I’ve recently read two series where the second book made me so mad that I had to go back and adjust the rating for the first book. One was The Long earth series by Terry Practchett, and the other was the Greatcities duology by NK Jemesin. Both very very bad in different ways.

  6. Anon

    As I sit here with my size 10 poor aching feet propped up on a pillow, I still look at those shoes and think “ooh cute, want!”

  7. anon

    I’m in need of new music for my cardio. Can we share current favorites? I need something upbeat enough for moderate intensity running. Current favorites are: Boys (black caviar remix) by Lizzo; Wash and Set by Leikeli47; Pon de Replay by Rhianna; Big Energy by Latto; Billie Eilish by Armani White; Anti-Hero (kungs remix) by TSwift. FYI my knowledge of current pop hits is very limited, I mostly found the above by chance. What are you listening to?! :)

    • Anonymous

      I’m having a Bad Bunny moment. Titi Me Pregunto is at the top of my list.

      This thread is super timely for me because I’ve been tasked with putting together a playlist for a party for my soon to be SIL but I’m clueless. And although Spanish is her first language she has specified no Conejo Malo, much to the disappointment of the rest of the younger women in our families.

    • Anon

      I like running to fast bluegrass, which may not be your cup of tea but makes me laugh.

  8. anon

    I love these. I’m looking for more modern heels to update some of my semi-dated dresses (after our convo on dated clothing!) so please share other ones you’ve bought recently that you think qualify! It seems like most of the modern shoes are flats, and I still prefer to wear heels to work.

  9. Anon

    Question about conflict in relationships. I feel like my life has gotten a lot easier since I adopted the ‘my feelings are my own; their feelings are their own.’ When I feel a bit hurt, I try to take responsibility for the fact that a) they probably didn’t mean to hurt me and assume positive intent and b) only I can make myself feel better. Unless it’s a repeated, concrete behavior, 99% of the time I just don’t feel the need to bring anything up. But I do recognize it’s healthy to talk things through.

    My question is: how do you navigate conflict in relationships? Do you bring things up or just process on your own? When you bring things up, how much do you say, and when does it start to feel like veering into making your feelings their problem?

    • Anon

      I posted above on the thread about a friend not letting things go (I’m the comment about being in a similar situation with a friend who hammers and hammers her grievances) and I think that what you’re doing is very wise. It’s important to acknowledge that our feelings are complicated and tied up with lots of baggage that our friends and family don’t share and that we’re responsible for our reactions. For me, that looks like being clear and direct if there’s something that bothered me (like “hey, I felt weird when you said that you’d never do what I did in X situation. I was sharing a hard time and that felt really judgmental. I wanted to let you know it hurt my feelings.”) But I also consider whether it’s the better choice to let things go. You don’t want to let EVERY instance go and then feel constantly unheard or unsatisfied in relationships, but you also don’t want to nitpick every little problem and ruminate on it to death. Pick your battles, make sure you’re being fair and not expecting the other person to be a mindreader, and accept apologies promptly. Also, resist the urge to be passive aggressive instead of direct.

    • anon

      I mostly process on my own. It has to be pretty egregious for me to want to bring it up with people. I know I’m sensitive, and I also know that my friends and family are genuinely good people who sometimes get it wrong, so I need some time to get over it.

    • Anon

      It depends on the level of closeness and the nature of the hurt. If it’s a significant other or very close friend, it’s something that may come up again, and it legitimately hurt my feelings (not I’m just touchy today, which happens sometimes), I’ll say something. I would want to know if something I was doing was hurting a close friend, and I think it’s right to share those things. Otherwise, you just get angry and distance yourself from the perso

    • Anon

      I wish I had an answer for this. My husband and I are are more and more often at loggerheads because he dislikes conflict but also believes any unpleasant feeling must be someone else’s fault. He frequently used to confront me about how I am selfish and insensitive to have caused him such anguish when I had nothing to do with the situation.

      As in, he would begin by expressing his annoyance over some external situation (bad drivers, for instance). He would vent to me about someone who cut him off, but would then extrapolate it to how manners have fallen by the wayside because society is falling apart and it’s just another sign that democracy is failing and soon we will need to protect ourselves from the complete disintegration of civilization. When I refuse to get worked up to this level and don’t agree with his every word or respond with anything beyond an acknowledgement that he seems frustrated, and eventually extricate myself from the soliloquy, he gets butthurt that I would not engage. He then wants to have a long, drawn-out heart-to-heart sobfest about how I am emotionally distant and he just craves connection with me and since I don’t relish the chance to validate his ramblings I clearly must be having an affair. It is exhausting. I used to get drawn in and become distraught over this until I very recently realized he just never learned how to deal with his feelings.

      Now, I am not purposefully mean to him but I will stop him in his tasks when his spiraling begins. I tell him he needs to manage those emotions for himself, and let him know I am removing myself as the recipient of them until he does so. I let him know I love him and tell him that once he has processed whatever feelings he is wrestling with we can talk again, but it will be a civilized, two-way conversation. It will not involve him trying to make me share his angst, nor will it be a massive, hours-long therapy session where he wants me to sit there attentively while he hashes out his every discontent. He can tell me how the bad driver irritated him, I can acknowledge it was ridiculous of them and validate his feelings, but then we will move on. I will not join him in ruminating on this until we begin reveling in angst over the impending downfall of civilization.

      He did not like it at all the first time I enforced this boundary. He does stop but seems to seethe about being told that I won’t participate. I am not sure he won’t yet have another meltdown one of these times when I refuse to indulge his emotional dumping, and that may very well be my last straw.

      I have tried to take my own advice in this, too. Sometimes I do just want to vent and have someone hear me, but I am very intentional about making it optional for him to listen and to also keep it proportionate with the situation and not turn my feelings into existential dread when it’s truly just sighing about first-world problems.

      • anon

        This person seriously needs therapy and likely medication. It is not appropriate for him to do this to you. But it is not likely that he can learn to process this better on his own. This goes to the crux of his sense of identity, mental health, maladaptive learned behavior.

        It is very sad if you are married/in a deep relationship and you are purposefully trying to never vent to each other. I mean I totally get why you say this. And my own anxiety level skyrocketed just imagining what you are going through.

        Get him some help. Time for therapy.

      • CreditRisk

        Your husband is a covert narcissist with a side of martyrdom…. the only way that I effectively dealt with him was to divorce him. We have 3 children together and I co-parent with him by constantly applying the grey rock technique.

        He will be very challenging to divorce. I highly recommend getting yourself an attorney now who is experienced with this type of emotional abuse to make sure you have sufficient evidence in place to force through the divorce. The advice I was given enabled me to divorce my husband in 5 months. It would have been a 5+ year ordeal doing it any other way.

  10. Anonymous

    How do you deal if you’re sensitive to sounds while working? I work from home and the leafblowers and kid next door basketball annoy me, to say nothing of my own kids. this is the main office space in the home and i paid a decorator to make it my own. not sure if i need to lean into white noise, soundproofing, or what.

    • Moose

      If possible, look into the insulation/seal around your windows. There are also windows that are made to block sound. Heavy curtains can also help.

      • Anon

        But they are consistent, like white noise.

        The rev, reeeeeev, rev, rev of leaf blowers drives me up the wall. I can imagine the same with unpredictable thuds of a basketball.

        OP, insulation for windows (bubble wrap if you can’t afford new windows); heavy curtains; noise cancelling in-ear headphones with ear defenders over the top). Take a break for a cup of tea and a wee when it gets too annoying.

        The gardening service across the street has leaf blowers every second Thursday afternoon so I make plans not to be in the house.

    • Anonymous

      I would invest in soundproofing. I agree with the person who said start with the windows.

    • Anon

      I’d start with soundproofing like double windows.

      You also have to accept that no matter where you work, you’re going to hear these noises of every day life, just in case you’re stewing about it.

      • Anon

        Basketball yes but gas leaf blowing is unnecessary. They are next level annoying with a high pitch. Rakes and brooms do a much, much better job minus the dust and engine fumes, or use an electric one if you must.

  11. Anonymous

    When people say “don’t touch the principal” for retirement/general wealth how do you determine what’s principal? just cost/basis? also i’m considering turning an investment account for vacation spending that we would use in about 5 years – would the principal principle work there? put in 7k a few years ago that i didn’t know what to do with and now at 14k.

    • Anonymous

      The principal is 7k. So if you don’t want to touch the principal, you have 14k minus 7k available to you to spend. More technically you have whatever you have left in profit AFTER you’ve paid taxes on that 7k profit to spend. The 7k in principal stays in your investment accounts, gets reinvested.

    • Anonymous

      They’re usually literally referring to living off of dividends or interest payments. The balance that generates those dividends and interest would be your principal.

    • Vicky Austin

      I think whatever you put in is principal, and whatever it earns on top of that is interest, so your investment account has 7k of each if I’ve understood your numbers correctly.

      (Also I appreciate your use of “principal principle”)

    • Anon

      Don’t touch the principal means only use dividends or interest to fund whatever you are doing.

  12. anon

    If you have blue or blue-gray eyes, I’d love your recommendations for neutral, work-friendly eyeshadow colors. I am very bored with my UD Naked 2 basics palette. I know the conventional wisdom is that you should wear something peachy or coppery to bring out the blue, but those shades do not look great with my cooler skin tone. I’m looking for anything in the taupe family.

    • Anon

      I love the purple/lavender/pink family with my grey-blue eyes. Coppery has never worked for me, either. I have medium brown hair, or used to, and now I dye it.

    • Anon

      I have blue-grey eyes, so much so that I never know what to put on forms. Sometimes they even look a bit green. I like the Bobbi Brown dual ended shadow sticks. My favorite one is in Golden pink/nude beach. I use the nude beach as an allover lid color, then the pink as a highlight on the center of the moveable part of my eyelid. I add some smudged upper liner and I’m good to go.

    • ALT

      I like the NYX shadow stick in Yogurt. It’s a nude-for -me shimmer and makes my eyes sparkle. I also have started using dark purple eyeliner (Revlon Black Violet) on my eyes and that makes the color pop too. Tarte has a good medium brown shade I like called Drive that I smudge on with a fingertip and it looks nice and natural.

    • Anonymous

      No, no, no – don’t use peach and copper on a cooler toned skin! You’ll look ill.

      Greys will be great, pearlescent white for highlighting, charcoal for eyeliner, think the greys of a warship for your lid, and maybe some taupe going into lilac. Some taupes will be too warm for you.

      Dior has a five colour palette called Pied-de-poulle, number 73. That would be lovely. You might also get away with the soft warmer tones of palette 669 Soft Cashmere, Sephora stocks that one, but I would try that one before buying.

  13. FormerlyPhilly

    What treatments have helped you with age or sun spots/discoloration on cheeks or face? I am wondering if it is time to go to cosmetic derm to investigate laser, freezing, Rx retinol, etc… or if I should stick with over the counter beauty serums and creams? 44 years old if that matters. My medical derm has seen them and won’t do any of the above.

    • Anonymous

      what is your current skincare routine? would definitely do rx retinol. unfortunately the main thing that helps is staying out of the sun / using sunscreen religiously.

    • editor

      Sciton Halo laser. Creams and serums, “spot removers” did nothing for me. Before that, I had one recurring spot frozen off a few times, but this has taken care of it, all over.

    • BeenThatGuy

      For me, nothing but RX’s have worked to correct discoloration. Hydroquinone and a Retinoid combo worked for me. They have online for this kind of thing now. You fill out a questionnaire, send pictures, a Dr evaluates you and sends a few options of treatments to fit your lifestyle and budget.

    • Anon

      I have more vascular/redness stuff than brown spots, but last time I had laser for them I got talked into BBL – not brazlian butt lift! Broad beam laser, which I understand is a more powerful form of IPL. This was rather than the V Beam treatments I’ve had before. The broad beam wasn’t as effective on my redness stuff, but it was killer on the lesser brown spotting I have, or used to have. It sort of came to the surface and looked darker for a few days, then I guess it flaked off as my skin went through its normal shedding cycle. So I wouldn’t go have it again for redness, but I’d definitely recommend it for brownness.

  14. VeryAnonForThis

    Daydreamy question for the day. Very frivolous, feel free to skip.

    My family is looking at a real possibility of getting a big chunk of change from a start-up company one of us is employed with. The range is all over the place but looks like the minimum would be $2M post-tax, up to $20m post-tax (but highly likely to be much closer to $2m). There would likely be a lot more to come at a later date if other events happened (acquisition, etc.) as we would still hold significant equity in the company even after taking these chips off the table.

    We have investment advisors/tax planning professionals, but just wondering, what would you do with this first chunk of money? We have two young pre-elementary kids, we’re both employed full time. Our financial situation aside from this windfall is very comfortable but we don’t come from any significant family money so I do think this is going to have a huge impact on our lives. If you could stop working (outside the home, for money) forever, would you? (I think eventually we will cash out the kind of money that would make retiring this year, in our mid 30-s, very doable). I don’t know what I would do with my time. Would you buy a second home? How would you set aside money for charity? At what point does it make sense to set up a charitable trust or some kind of dedicated fund for causes you care about? How would you go about being generous with family/friends without over-sharing or making people uncomfortable or reliant on you? How would you make sure your kids don’t become entitled, out-of-touch a-holes? (This last one is my biggest concern, and even with our present lifestyle, I worry about it).

    Any and all thoughts welcome!

    • Cat

      FWIW $2M would not be sufficiently life-changing for me to give up working. By the time your kids are in college it may well cost $500K each for 4 years at a private school at the rate things are going.

      I’d reconsider if you get a truly massive amount of money from a subsequent sale.

      • Anon

        +1. I’d invest it in mutual funds and try not to touch it, except for interest. Though exciting, it’s not change-your-lifee money in the sense that you wouldn’t want to buy a second house you wouldn’t have otherwise been able to afford. Property taxes, insurance costs etc are all substantial. I wouldn’t set it up for a charitable trust until I was retired, my house was paid off, and my kids were through college. Again, $2 million won’t make your kids rich in a way that would required to become a-holes. Do not give money to your friends or family; even if you have it, it’s a bad practice for relationships.

        If you retire, insurance rates can be $2,000 a month+ for decent coverage. I think investing it and only spending the interest would be the only way to make $2,000,000 a reasonable amount to live on, provided your kids’ college is covered. For the type of wealth you’re talking about (where you want to be generous and have charitable trust), I think you’d need to be closer if not at the $20,000,000 range. After taxes, $20,000,000 will be closer to $12,000,000, which I would still just invest in a mutual fund and live off of the interest. Unfortunately, it’s really not as much money as you seem to be thinking it is.

        Signed, Woman Whose Parents Are Worth $100,000,000+ And Still Do Not Do the Things You’re Listing Here

        • Anonymous

          Your parents could do all the things the OP is suggesting. They choose not to.

      • anon

        +2. Check out FATFire subreddit for more on this, but most of them would advise against retiring in your mid-30s with $2M, especially given you’d presumably be paying OOP for healthcare for the better part of 50+ years for yourselves. You can always reconsider later if you get more money like Cat said.

    • Anon

      With $2M, I would:
      1. Spend part of it on a substantial treat for myself and my family (only you know what that is, but maybe a once-in-a-lifetime vacation, reno project you’ve been putting off, etc.)
      2. Pay off mortgage if applicable
      3. Consider my retirement fully funded, as that is a great amount to retire on and will only grow with time. That is a huge amount of mental freedom for me. And would allow you to re-direct your normal retirement savings to other savings priorities (kids college educations, etc.) or things like larger charity donations on a regular basis.
      I wouldn’t feel ready to quit my job permanently in my mid-30s, but if my retirement is fully funded, I would think about leaning way out.
      Unless you had family members with very dire needs or very distinct one-time needs with no chance of it becoming a regular thing, I probably wouldn’t gift them significant money, but would be more generous with time and gifts. Or maybe do something like invite family members on a vacation and cover the cost.

      • Anon

        Also to echo Cat, if you get a towards the higher end of the range or get a large future windfall from an IPO, then I think I would shift into the mindset of quit-my-job, set up charitable trust, grants to family members, etc.

      • Anne-on

        I echo all of this but will add in talking to an estate attorney (I don’t think tax attorneys usually do trusts and estates but maybe I’m wrong?).
        If I got this type of windfall we would finally do the ‘big’ reno project we’re saving for, pay off the mortgage and remaining debt, and then split 70/30 whatever remains into retirement/trust for my kid. We’d put the standard guardrails around the trust – no access to at least 35 unless it is for college/grad school/health needs/first mortgage on a primary home.

    • Anonymous

      Echoing the other commenter that $2million is great, but wouldn’t stop me working. I would superfund the kid’s 529s. If I had nieces and nephews who would have a lot less $$$ for college, I might contribute to their 529s as well.

    • Anonymous

      Don’t quit your job unless you really need to – stay in the game. Lean out if you have to to smaller hours or a better job but keep your job.
      Ideas for $2m: (assuming you have no credit or student loan debt)
      – are you maxing your kids’ 529? talk to your attorney/accountant about superfunding, i think it’s up to $160k per kid for couples ($80k for you). it’s treated as spread over 5 years but that money would grow like gangbusters if your kids are small now.
      – recast your mortgage if you took a jumbo loan; if you have a high interest rate consider paying off mortgage entirely

      otherwise just save it. plan for a few nice vacations but keep calm and carry on.

    • No Face

      For my kids, I make sure we maintain real, close relationships with people from all socioeconomic backgrounds. We accomplish this through church and public schools. We have friends who live in small apartments, working class neighborhoods, giant surburban houses, and mansions. We are friends with everyone.

      For a charity, we prefer to develop ongoing relationships with smaller, local nonprofits and we donate large but consistent amounts. We also let them know to call us about the boring things they need. I don’t think a full charitable trust is necessarily worth it at those dollar amounts but look into a donor advised fund.

      • Vicky Austin

        I love this. A few days/weeks ago there was a thread about living a “big” life, and I think I’d like to add “being on a local nonprofit’s list of people to call when they need help with something boring” to mine.

    • anon

      I wouldn’t do anything major. This is not let’s retire tomorrow money – especially if you have kids with college plans that you hope to support in a substantial way. And I have no idea what sort of retirement savings you have so far and what your yearly expenses are. Again… kids… daycare…. life expenses.

      Pay off all debt, including house.
      Maximize all retirement savings every year, backdoor roths etc..
      Use your preferred savings vehicle and save for your kids college.
      Put the rest in brokerage index funds/VTI.
      Open a charitable gift fund at your place of choice (Fidelity/Vanguard).

      You are very young. Who knows what is the future for your family/life. I would not retire immediately. I would think carefully with your partner about what career would be meaningful to you and consider pursuing that if you prefer. And together talk about what your goals are for your life, your children, your family. Maybe you take a year off and travel with the whole family. Maybe move to where you always wanted to be. My friends who sold their start ups did things like that.

      I would not go broadcasting your new wealth everywhere. Not at all. No suddenly buying expensive houses and fancy cars. Be smart. Think long term. Help family on a case by case basis. Remember, once you start, the floodgates will open and people will come calling. Be smart. Be generous. Be careful.

      I recommend fee based financial planners – not the ones who take a percentage of your money every year. Keep it simple. Be smart. Live the life that is important to you.

    • Anon

      $2m – wouldn’t quit my day job.
      $20m – my coworkers would never see me again lol.

    • Anonymous

      I’d replace all the granite in my house with marble. With that kind of money, I’d deserve it.

    • anon a mouse

      For your last question, read The Opposite of Spoiled. It could use an update, but is very grounded and full of practical advice.

      While you are in the daydreaming phase, think about what’s most important to you – growing the money into something much larger? Staying home with kids? Charitable giving? Travel? Living in a specific city to be close to family? Paying for kids’ college? Once you start to figure out your priorities, it will be easier to think about how to design your life to support them.

      In your shoes, I would probably choose one thing to seriously splurge on and set up a solid investment strategy for the rest. Like annual vacations that are extensive and luxurious, but day to day stays pretty much the same. And then I’d want to be sure that I could pay for kids’ college and have a very, very sizeable retirement fund before I stepped out of the workforce.

      • Anon

        Counterpoint, I thought the advice in that book was pretty obvious and not particularly insightful. I don’t have the kind of money OP is potentially getting, but am wealthier than probably 98% of Americans and my kids are growing up with a *lot* of advantages most kids don’t have. But I don’t think I’ve ever really found advice in a parenting book groundbreaking so maybe I’m just not the target audience for them.

    • anon

      For me, in the 2 range, especially without a large family fortune (that is, people who would easily and gladly support my children and me if something awful happened), that’s money to let grow to be there if you should ever need it. We have a really inadequate social safety net in the US for people disabled by illness and accident and needs can be significant.

      I think it’s great that you’re thinking of charitable donations, but no need for anything complicated at this level of wealth. Maybe set up a budget and general plan while you’re daydreaming (like, set a recurring calendar reminder each year to sift through options on a particular date and give around $x a year). Maybe a donor advised fund if you want the tax write off now, but want to distribute over time.

      Also, I’d set up/better fund 529s if I hadn’t already.

      As the numbers get higher, it’s time to really think about priorities with your partner and what you want for your children. With no real need to work, I think it’s nice for both parents to limit working hours and maybe even have one stay home if they’d be happy doing so. It’s a great privilege to spend a lot of time with one’s kids and have no worries about one’s future. That said, some people are happier parents if they have busy work lives–it’s far better to know that about yourself and continue working a big job if that’s your cup of tea.

    • VeryAnonForThis

      Thanks ladies. To answer some questions – we are on track for retirement and two private (adjusted for inflation) college educations with our current HHI, and save an additional ~$100k a year into mutual funds. Only debt is our mortgage (around $800k).

      Totally agree $200k is not f u money. This hypo is assuming we eventually cash out $10, 20m or more. For now we plan to put the $2m (or whatever we get this round, could be much higher) into investments. I just like day dreaming about what-ifs :) thank you for indulging me!

      Love the idea also of taking our families on a vacation now and then! (Again assuming we really have a lot of money to throw around).

    • Anon

      Agree with others. $2m is security for retirement, not quittin’ money. $20m is kiss my lumpy ass money.

        • Senior Attorney

          Negotiate, in advance,how the money will be split in case of divorce. especially if you quit your job on reliance on it.

    • Anon

      $2 mil is much more of a sigh of relief than it is life changing. I don’t think we’d change that much; DH and I would definitely both still work (maybe one of us would go PT to spend more time with the kids, maybe not). We don’t outsource at all right now, so if one of us doesn’t go PT at work, we’d probably do that: cleaning service, lawn service, grocery delivery, etc. Really, the $2 mil would just be a really nice cushion for us: we’d fully fund our kids college funds, know we have a very nice retirement cushion, and we’d carefully invest the rest. It’d just be so nice to know we’ll be able to retire, to pay for college, and to fund any unexpected cost that comes up (new roof / car / whatever when it’s needed, eventual home updates, god forbid medical bills).

      The only major change I’d likely make would be to look into a vacation house (more realistically, a condo) down the shore. I generally don’t think vacation houses are a great idea, but I know I would use the house a lot (its 1.5 hrs from my house so very easy to get to, I have been going to this town my entire life and love it (and I have family and friends there), I very rarely travel elsewhere, which is okay with me). I would also plan to use the house half of the summer and rent it half of the summer for several years to offset the cost (yes I know this is a headache, but my parents do this and I help them with it so I’m very used to it).

      With $20 mil,I still don’t think my calculus changes all that much. I don’t think DH or I should retire in our late 30s, but I could see us both going part time or finding a passion project rather than the jobs we work in now (or maybe go back to school for fun). We would definitely buy a shore house (and not a condo!) with the $20 mil. We would stay in our current house (love the neighborhood) but upgrade it (new furniture, kitchen, and bathrooms, professionally landscape the yard).

      As for helping family / friends, I think it’s hard to do this well. We would definitely contribute to my niece and nephews 529s for their birthdays / Christmas, we would give our parents / siblings very nice gifts for birthday / Christmas and I would presume that our parents would stop fighting us for the check when we go out to eat, but that’s about it. For other family members and friends, I’d plan on giving very generous gifts for milestone occasions (like add an extra.$0 onto the check that I write for a friend who is getting married), pick up the check on occasion, but that’s about it. Obviously if anyone had an emergency that could be helped with money, I would step in and help that (and / or, if I’m only working PT use that freedom of my schedule to help; for example, a friend was recently in a really bad car crash and was hospitalized; I’d offer to pay hospital bills or do the kids’ school pick up and drop off or whatever would be helpful).

      I would be very charitable (probably to the non-profit that I used to work at, it’s a mission I really care about), but I don’t know exactly how that would look without working with a financial advisor.

      Kids turn out the way you raise them :) I’d definitely avoid having my kids in an environment where everyone is well off. We live in a nice but normal town and the kids are in parochial school but there’s a wide range of socioeconomic status in the town and the school. We wouldn’t inflate our lifestyle a ton, so the kids would still have a good sense of reality (like when they turn 16, I will get a new car and the kids can share my old car, but no one is getting a) their own car or b) a new car until they buy it themselves; if we buy a shore house then we will spend our entire summer there; there won’t be other vacations. If they break or lose something nice (a phone, AirPods, Switch), they are responsible for replacing it).

    • Anon

      If I had life-changing money like that (more toward the $20MM than the $2MM), I would think seriously about setting up a charity and running it. Not donations, Mackenzie Bezos-style, but, say, a charity that helps with college readiness for underprivileged girls. Something with meaning, that could change lives.

      • Anecdata

        Since we’re daydreaming — I wouldn’t plan on quitting working entirely, but I would plan towards taking a year of world travel with my kids, and lean way out of work for it. Maybe consult or freelance or volunteer my technical skill part time to keep skills fresh but mostly treat it as a sabbatical

    • Anon

      The estimated annual interest on $2M is more than I currently earn in salary, so I would take $200k for fun lifestlye invest $1.8M, quit my job and enjoy a life of leisure on the interest :)
      Not the case for most people here, I know, but I am not a high earner and live in a very LCOL area.

    • Anonforthis

      I live in the Bay Area, when the company I worked at IPOd I got maybe ~1.5M, and many colleagues who started earlier got a few times that.
      Honestly… $2M really isn’t a lot of money here. We were able to put a down payment on a nice condo and just saved the rest. We feel a lot more comfortable getting a monthly cleaning service, ordering out whenever we feel like it, and staying in nicer hotels when we travel. No changes to how we think about our jobs. Colleagues who cashed out higher amounts bought nicer houses and cars, maybe took a year or two off and then pursued a startup.
      If I got another $2M at this point – we might try to get a slightly bigger house (though a 4-BR in a good school district with reasonable commute for us is more like $3-4M).
      To play more in the spirit of the game – if I got $20M, I would get a nice 4-5BR in the Bay Area and maybe a vacation home. I’d pay for a lot of childcare (nanny + have room for parents around). I’d stay in nice hotels and fly business class on vacations. I’d save a ton of it and get a financial adviser. I’m be generous with charities. None of this is “quit our jobs” or “start a charitable foundation” territory for us!

  15. Anonymous

    are there any travel bloggers who share budgets for family of 4? trying to do some longterm bucket list vacation planning and ballparks would be helpful

    • Anon

      I’m not sure travel bloggers are the right source for this.
      For one thing, the most successful travel bloggers (the ones you may have heard of, and the ones that come up in the first page of Google search results for general topics like “three days in Paris”) typically have a lot of their travel hosted, so their costs will look very different than yours. For another, travel costs to any given destination are extremely variable – even within the family travel “niche,” there are luxury travel bloggers, and budget travel bloggers and their expenses obviously look very different.
      I think a travel agent or advisor is the right source for a budget conversation. You can describe what you want – what kind of hotels you want to stay in, what sorts of activities you want to do, what kind of comfort you’re expecting – and the travel advisor can tell you what you budget range should be.

      I’m a small time travel blogger, fwiw so have nothing against bloggers. I just don’t think bloggers are going to be much help for this.

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