Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Ruffle Sleeveless Eyelet Blouse

316 Comments

1. I see a lot of recommendations for comfortable or stylish masks here, but I am looking for recommendations for the most effective masks that are available and won’t look too “medical”. I will be going into the office soon and while I am vaccinated, many of my colleagues are not and I suspect mask compliance may not be great. I have a condition that may put me at high risk, so I want to do everything I can to protect myself and others. I have been wearing white KN95s the few times I’ve needed to go out for appointments, but they are not ideal and I think will stand out quite a bit in the office environment I’m going back to.

   1. You might want to check out this Wirecutter article for recommendations: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-cloth-face-masks/.

      They limited their reviews to cloth masks and assessed masks’ ability to filter particles.

   2. I really like my masks from Armbrust American.

   3. I have seen people wearing white KN95s in the office, court, and during depositions. It was really NBD. Basically everyone wears completely different styles of masks.

      I wear black surgical style masks from Costco. They have nose wire. YMMV on fit.

   4. First, I think the black KN95s look much nicer than the white ones. Second, have you considered double masking – wearing a more stylish mask over your KN95? Seems like that was a thing for a while.

      1. I didn’t know black KN95s were a thing but I would be into that. Where is a good place to purchase reputable KN95? The box of white ones I have were gifted to us by my husband’s employer last year and I feel like I am really late to the party on the mask front.

         1. Masklab.us has them. I like my KN95s from them and a friend ordered some as well is really happy with them. I like that they stay up and off my lips.

            I think I got the recommendation from here, actually.

   5. Even the standard looking n95 masks can sometimes be falsified, so I wouldn’t compromise there. I’d get an N95 from a reputable brand and seller, and wear a cloth mask over it for the visual appeal.

   6. I’ve been wearing KN95’s everywhere, from public transit to outdoor dining to stores because I actually find them more comfortable, and because I like that they are more protective, and I don’t think its every looked weird. I see people wearing N95s casually in the street too. So I would just wear the KN95s. You can get them in other colors too, like black or pink.

   7. I recently tried KF94 and I love them – they are more comfortable than my fabric masks. I think the black ones look pretty good. These are the ones I ordered: https://www.masksheets.com/products/good-manner-kf94-respirator-face-mask-black-10-pcs

      1. PS – if you really want cloth, the Wirecutter-recommended Graf Lantz mask has the same shape and I like it as well. It has a filter pocket, although it seems quite filter-y (slightly hard to breath through) without one.

   8. Oh lord…we’ve reached the “Are medical masks unprofessional?” stage of proceedings.

      1. Right?

         I have a hard time understanding the question. OP should wear the most protective mask available to her.
         And if mask compliance is not great at her workplace, would it really make a difference whether she wears a N95 vs. something else? Do certain types of masks trigger anti-maskers more than others?

         1. +1. Wear the most protective mask available to you if you are high risk and mask compliance around you might be poor. That would be an N95. It’s not going to be fashionable.

         2. Yes, they actually do.

         3. I am the OP. I am running out of the white KN95s and since I don’t like the way they look or fit my face, I thought I would check with the wise ladies here to see if something “better” was out there. I am not concerned about anti maskers except to the extent they will be breathing germs at me. That said, there is talk about removing the mask mandate in my state and I would feel more comfortable continuing to mask myself if I had something a bit more discreet.

            1. If the KN95s don’t fit your face amazingly well the actual real-world efficacy of a ‘lesser’ mask type might be higher for you?

            2. You’re going to have a mask on your face. That’s not discreet. Just wear the most protective one.

         4. Oh it is definitely a thing. A good friend works in large equipment sales (construction type stuff) and his office is hardcore Republican, anti-vax, anti-mask. They begrudgingly wore cloth masks when customers were in the office. My friend is a believe in science democrat. When he wore a cloth mask he could blend as “one of them” just following the state mandate. When he wore an N95 one day, all hell broke loose. It’s really sad. In some professions, you really have to fly under the radar and not out yourself as different.

            1. Perhaps Just lie & say someone gave you a bunch for free or your mom insists or something?

            2. He told the truth that his wife was undergoing a medical procedure and it would be extra risky for her to get COVID. He wore the N95 for a couple of weeks with minimal ridicule (but still some) after that. He blamed his wife’s doctor and said that if she had been exposed (via him) she couldn’t have the procedure, which is true.

      2. Masks, while serving a purpose, come in so many styles that they are also accessories. I probably wouldn’t wear my tie-dye mask or my mask covered in dachshunds to court. I’d either wear a plain colored one, one in a fancier pattern (Johnny Was style) or a more neutral print like stripes or polka dots. I’d equate it to a tie. If a guy would wear the pattern on the tie, it is good for court. If a guy would not wear the pattern on his tie for court, I won’t be wearing it on my mask. All plain medical ones are of course fine!

   9. Fashion should not be your priority; safety should. I have reusable masks I bought from Johnny Was in California that are functional and allow for filtering inserts, which you can buy @ CVS. There are many people walking around NYC and there is no way you can tell by looking at them if they are virus free.

      There are also grungy people who I presume are NOT vaccinated and they are the ones most likely to nuzzle up to me on the street and ask for money. So all they see are my eyes and blond hair and I do my best to avoid them, but having a good mask (or 2) is the best protection short of pepper spray. YAY!

   10. masklab. KF Series is KN95. Disposable but you get ten and they are quite sturdy. Get ten paper bags and follow the CDC recommendation on sanitizing a mask by putting it in a bag for seven to ten days. These masks have a wire piece at the nose and are constructed so that the part that goes across your mouth area does not touch your mouth, which I find makes it easy to speak clearly.

   11. I like to use a paper surgical mask with a double layer cotton mask over it. It’s comfortable to me, easy to change out the surgical mask to a fresh one if it’s getting uncomfortable.

   12. I truly do not understand why you would believe a medical mask is necessary is you’ve already been fully vaccinated. If you believe the science, this is your anxiety and fear talking, not actual need.

       1. what? the CDC presumably knows the science best and is still recommending masks indoors for all people. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/pdfs/choosingSaferActivities.pdf

       2. Personally I’ve been following the CDC recommendations. I thought they still required a mask unless everyone else present has also been vaccinated (which of course I can’t ascertain)?

          But you should also know that the science-based recommendations for people with high risk conditions are often not the same as the general public health recommendations. It’s very frustrating when people assume that the recommendations that apply to healthy people are the same or are more scientific than the recommendations made for certain risk groups.

          1. Masks yes, but not N95s.

             1. Surely you don’t mean that the use of N95s is somehow less scientifically supported?

       3. As I mentioned I have a condition that may cause me to be at high risk. It is my understanding that the current research suggests that the condition and/or the medications associated with it can also cause the vaccine to be less effective. Since there is still a lot of uncertainty around COVID, especially with respect to specific medical conditions and risk factors, I do not think it is unreasonable for me to continue wearing a medical grade mask.

          1. OP, I have lymphoma and most lymphoma patients don’t develop antibodies to the vaccine, so I will still mask when others don’t need to. Even people who have been tested and do have positive antibodies can still get sick, and I know three lymphoma patients who that has happened to. We are in the group that has “Break-through infections” after vaccination.

             I wouldn’t wear a cloth mask, because they are better for protecting others than protecting yourself. The edges don’t seal to the face and let in particles. The masklab KF Series is KN95 are very pretty and don’t look medical while still sealing around the edge. I wear pink, blue, grey or maroon KN95s anytime I’m indoors.

             Not sure what condition you have, but if it’s a blood cancer, the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society is running a scientific study where you can get your spike protein measured for free. There are also scientific studies for transplant recipients, for those with rheumatoid arthritis or similar who are on biologics and there is one for those with IBD. You can benefit and help science too.

             You could also get your doctor to order the test via LabCorp and you might have to pay for it but they will test your spike protein and then you would know what protection – if any – you have from the vaccine. The test is SARS-CoV-2 Semi-Quant Total Ab to see if you have vaccine spike protein antibodies. (The one to see if you’ve had covid is SARS-CoV-2 Ab, Nucleocapsid but don’t let them confuse that with the vaccine test.)

             My test for vaccine antibodies was a high positive and the results said: “Antibodies against the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein receptor binding
             domain (RBD) were detected. It is yet undetermined what level of
             antibody to SARS-CoV-2 spike protein correlates to immunity against
             developing symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 disease.” But as I said I still mask anytime I’m indoors.

       4. I hate this anti masker line of questioning. It’s the same as anti vaxxers. “If vaccines are effective why are you worried about whether I get one?” I will tell you why. My child got whooping cough/ pertussis from “community spread” when she was around 18 months old and not all the way through being vaccinated. You would not believe how sick she was, it was awful, and we are still not sure what the lasting damage is. And apparently hers was a “light” case, which means I really can’t image how bad full blown whooping cough is. This is a disease that was nearly eradicated until loopy anti vaxxers decided to run the clock backward.

          So it’s the same with masks and the Covid vaccine. 1) we are not going to reach herd immunity because of vaccine refusers, and 2) the vaccine is 95%ish effective, which means something like 5% still get Covid. Vaccines don’t work well for people who have other issues preventing them from mounting a full immune response. Not everyone knows they are one of these people.

          Getting a vaccine and continuing to be cautious about social distancing and masking are about protecting the most vulnerable in our society. People who not only refuse to do these things but also ridicule others who do are just selfish a-holes. Period.

   13. Cambridge Mask and Vogmask are two FFP2 reusable options with third-party testing showing filtration >90% for virus-sized particles. I’ve been using Cambridge Masks for a year now and love them; there are several stylish options too. It has a valve, but if you wish there is a kit to turn it off

   14. I have cute masks from Johnny Was. Try them! Or if you want, I can send you one of my extras which the color is off.

2. After a sleepless night, I’ve decided I must terminate a relationship with a pro bono client. It’s an advocacy relationship with a loose community coalition before the government, and the group’s de facto leader has undermined me too many times to continue.

   I know how to tell the leader that we need to part ways, but I’m struggling with how to tell the government officials – with whom I work regularly – and the rest of the group members – who are pleased with my services and about whose cause I care very much – that I have to end the relationship. It bothers me that I’m not able to finish this engagement, but the leader’s actions mean I can’t continue. How can I politely, vaguely, and appropriately convey that I’m not “quitting” on this cause but that I had to do what was best? This is complicated by the fact that I was working on this issue just yesterday, and the group leader’s actions yesterday amounted to the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back, so this withdrawal will appear abrupt to those who are unaware of the leader’s actions. Thanks.

   1. Good for you for respecting yourself and taking steps to take care of yourself.
      My going in position for professional changes is this: You don’t owe anyone an exhaustive explanation. You may owe them information on who to contact in place of you. You may owe them a short statement iterating your support of this project and your hope that it will be successful. You may owe them suggestions on who could possibly replace you. The goal here, for me, would be exiting gracefully without divulging the real reason and giving them alternative support options appropriate for the situation so they continue to trust you now and in the future. You know those details best.
      Is this a situation where you can say “Due to personal circumstances I will no longer be working on X.”? Or even “Due to personal circumstances I will no longer be able to support X.”? The circumstances can also be professional, ex: your day job got busy. There’s many iterations of this and you can come up with something that fits your situation, I have no doubt. Personal circumstances may illicit too many follow up questions if the government officials know you beyond a professional capacity, so you may need to come up with a quick response to those types of questions “I’m fine, it’s not a matter I would like to discuss.” Or direct their attentions to anyone else that could help them handle this project as you’ll no longer be involved.
      It’s a bummer to leave something you care about and want to see completed, especially for the circumstances you describe. I hope that once this door is closed, another better opportunity opens up for you, where your work is valued.

      1. Exactly. Plus you don’t just not owe them an explanation you have an ethical obligation to your client to not give one.

         1. Yes, if they are pro bono, you are not getting paid, so you can withdraw any time you want. The manageing partner had me withdraw recently when my pro bono work was taking to much time away from my paying cleints. That is only fair.

      2. Illicit = illegal, criminal, nefarious. Elicit = provoke, draw out

         1. +1

   2. I wouldn’t worry about it appearing abrupt. As the govt person in this situation, I wouldn’t necessarily assume that the decision was recent – you could have decided a week or more ago and couldn’t let us know right away for some reason.

      I would suggest a polite email noting that you are moving on from representing Org, that enjoyed working with them on matters for Org., and that you hope your paths cross again in the future/there is an opportunity to work together again in the future.

      1. I agree with this. Short and sweet and move on.

3. Paging “still hot” mom from yesterday (and other posters who will be going back to their business/business casual offices) – what size are you? If 6-8 (6 in Boden, 8 in BR suits), I have a bunch of work dresses and suits and I’m not going to be using them since I am going to be working primarily remotely even when my office goes back, could send for cost of shipping. :) dianabarry r e t t e at gmail if interested :)

4. Petties, where are you shopping these days? In particular, I’d love to know where you find non-polyester “Zoom tops”. I’m 5’2, 100-105 lbs, 32B, and am struggling to find shirts to wear on work calls that also fit well enough to wear out of the house or (eventually) to the office. I feel like much of what I see is either made of polyester and/or has some type of detailing–ruffles, puff/flutter sleeves, smocking–that look juvenile on someone my size. The few items I’ve recently ordered in natural fibers were too large.

   Is there some magical source of petite-friendly, non-poly, reasonably affordable work tops that I’m missing? Do I just need to scour the typical mall brands like AT and Loft for the few natural fiber, non-rufflepuff items they sell? Recommendations for specfic tops are welcome too!

   1. Poshmark. I search for silk (or cotton, linen, whatever), then ruthlessly cull and filter the results and make sure there is a photo of the label to confirm it is actually silk and not polyester. I have gotten a few duds, but overall great finds at fantastic prices.

   2. I would look at Boden, Eileen Fisher, and Hobbs – they all have petite top options. Boden prints can sometimes be a bit loud for my taste, but if you find a print or solid you like, the quality is generally very good.

   3. I have given up on fancy Zoom tops. So little of my top shows on Zoom that a plain black tee, topped with the Athleta Pranayama cardigan or the J Crew Going Out Blazer if I need to be fancy, looks best to my eye.

      1. I have an Athleta Pranayama cardigan — I feel like it was necessary with leggings. But now that the weather is too sticky for leggings, what other pants (or dresses) do you wear it with? It feels a bit overwhelming for anything but skinny jeans (which I also avoid in high humidity). I like it, esp. as my office is cold with the A/C constantly running. Maybe it will just be my desk cardigan if I can get the proportions right.

         1. I follow the “opposite proportions on top and bottom” outfit principle. So the Pranayama is a yes with legging, skinny jeans, cigare**te pants, maybe a fitted dress if you like that look. No with flared or flowing dresses or wider pants.

   4. So it’s poly, but has a nice hand feel and looks GREAT on zoom:
      https://www.jcrew.com/p/womens_category/50_off_select_sale/clothing/tieneck-top-in-lattice-floral/AW676?sale=true&isFromSale=true&color_name=vintage-red
      I’ve been stalking Jcrew’s sale section when it’s 50% off. They have a pretty good selection of cotton/linen button downs with a bit of detail but not a crazy amount. Fwiw, I do find that some ruffles/pattern/etc. read really well on video as they look more ‘dressed up’.
      Otherwise, I’ll search for Hobbs/Boden on Bloomingdales as I can return more easily there. Boden’s blouses can be a little too ‘crafty first grade teacher’ for my taste but Hobbs are lovely. Sezanne also runs small but I refuse to buy non-washable tops these days.

      1. OMG I swore I was done shopping but this is fantastic.

   5. I recently did StitchFix and they sent me rayon and modal tops in the $35-$50 range. I really like them and find it hard to locate comparable tops elsewhere.

      1. I was also going to recommend stitch fix. I used them primarily for new tops because I was SO SICK of wearing one of the same 5 or so tops every exam. Most of my new tops are not polyester, through I actually like the one that is, surprisingly. They’re all great for zoom, which was my goal.

         Here’s my referral link in case you’re interested. It gets you $25 off, which will save you the styling fee, and does the same for me.

         https://www.stitchfix.com/invite/ysrbt87254?sod=i&som=c

   6. I search for — and often find — nice silk tops from Rebecca Taylor, The Kooples and Theory on Ebay.

   7. I have a dozen Liz Claiborne cotton tees in various styles. Almost all come in Petite but you have to buy at the beginning of the season, they go fast. They’re crazy affordable and wash and dry perfectly. The St. John’s bay at JCP has all cotton tees in petites as well. They’re also good but tend to be less fancy in terms of details (I like details like interesting collars or trim).

      1. https://www.jcpenney.com/p/liz-claiborne-womens-round-neck-short-sleeve-faux-linen-blouse/ppr5007922954?pTmplType=regular&catId=SearchResults&searchTerm=liz+claiborne+cotton+tee&productGridView=medium&urlState=brand%3Dliz%2Bclaiborne%26item_type%3Dt-shirts%26product_type%3Dshirts%2B%252B%2Btops%26product_size%3Dpetite%2Bsmall%257Cpetite%2Bx-small&badge=fewleft%7Cpetite&selectedSKUId=76830760018&facetSelected=size

      2. https://www.jcpenney.com/p/st-johns-bay-womens-v-neck-short-sleeve-t-shirt/ppr5007970696?pTmplType=regular&catId=SearchResults&searchTerm=st+johns+bay+womens+t+shirt&productGridView=medium&urlState=brand%3Dst.%2Bjohn%2527s%2Bbay%26gender%3Dwomen%257Cunisex%2Badult%26product_type%3Dshirts%2B%252B%2Btops&badge=onlyatjcp%7Cpetite

      3. I have a dozen Liz Claiborne cotton tees in various styles. Almost all come in Petite but you have to buy at the beginning of the season, they go fast. They’re crazy affordable and wash and dry perfectly. The St. John’s bay at JCP has all cotton tees in petites as well. They’re also good but tend to be less fancy in terms of details (I like details like interesting c*llars or trim).

   8. I know that it is an unsolicited advice, but maybe this bit of information helps you… Your band measurement seems relatively large in comaprison to your weight and height. Getting proper bra fitting during the pandemic is almost impossible, but you may want to consider getting fitted once it is safe again. Majority of women wear overly large band size, which does not provide proper support. Brands like Panache or Freya offer smaller bands, such as 28 and 30.

5. With things starting to open up again, does anyone have any ideas for how to meet single men in person? I’m mid-30s, unhappily single, want kids, and the last year has been really hard for me. Online dating has been a very frustrating experience so I’m trying to find ways to meet people in person.

   1. Join a running or biking club.

      1. The odds are good, but the goods are odd. Voice of experience here.

         1. Ha! I love that expression. My cousin in Alaska uses it about her prospects there.

            1. Alaskan here chiming in to say it’s absolutely true here.

         2. I have also heard that about MIT and Harvey Mudd.

   2. Have you tried meet-up? My late 30s brother met his GF and an entire new group of friends through a meet-up group focused on his interests. It is a social group but several couples have grown out of it. Very low key way of meeting…they got to know each other on a couple of hikes the group took and then she actually asked him out.

      1. +1 Met my husband at 36 at a meetup. One thing – I wish I had frozen my eggs. We had one child (a tremendous joy) but wish we could have had two.

   3. For me, it took starting up a hobby that attracted a lot of men, but that I would also enjoy (cycling). I joined a women’s club but there were lots of single men around the community and I ended up with a serious boyfriend out of it who I met at a group ride.

      1. +1 – Honestly I have no business posting on this question since I don’t have adult dating experience, but this was my first thought too – pick up a hobby and join a club/classes related to it. This is the way I meet tons of new people and friends. If it was me, I’d do indoor rock climbing or a boutique gym (like cross fit but not cross fit). If there isn’t an official club, I think you can get a similar benefit to going to classes at the same time all the time – you’ll get to know other people on the same schedule as you.

         1. This is making me think I SHOULD join the fancier gym that is more social vs the YMCA that is not that much cheaper and very kids-oriented. There are other reasons I was thinking about it of course but this is def a point in its favor.

            1. 100% I would do that! For all of the reasons.

   4. – agree with the advice on joining classes/meet ups. It doesn’t have to be fake/unnatural. Basically take whatever you are interested in doing or learning about and if there is an online option or an in person option then pick the in person option. Wine tasting, indoor rock climbing, trail running, yoga for runners, kayaking, language lessons and cooking lessons have all been sources of meeting guys amongst my broader friend group in the last 5 years.

      – tell your friends that you are looking and open to being set up. I know of two great guys who got divorced pre-pandemic, are sick of the online thing and interested in meeting people. I would never be the annoying married person who tries to set up single friends unsolicited, but if you let me know that you are looking, I would tell you about them and ask if you wanted to meet them.

      1. I will say, though, that if the goal is specifically to meet men, you do have to pick something that you are interested in that is likely to also draw a significant number of guys. I made this mistake for a long time before realizing that church, volunteering for arts/kids organizations, and crafting classes were helping me meet tons of great women and zero dudes. (I’m the poster above who met her boyfriend cycling.)

         1. For sure, yoga for runners in my small city was taught by a guy and that class seemed to attract a bunch of dudes but otherwise yoga/pilates/knitting/etc are not where you are going to meet guys.

      2. I completely agree with the tell your friends suggestion.

   5. It’s honestly a numbers game and online dating sucks until it doesn’t. My advice is tap that pool for all it’s worth, but don’t stay online. Get to an in-person date ASAP and make that “how you meet in real life.” I wanted to meet people organically too, but if you actually want to get married and all that, you need to increase your odds. And that’s not happening at a hobby club (see e.g. my wine class in my dating years. Population 25 single women hoping for an in-person meet cute and,p 1 maybe single guy)

      1. See also, my now husband who was single, at the rock climbing gym the whole time he was dating online, who thought it was a bit bonkers that he would meet someone at the rock climbing gym because that’s where he went to work out, not date. And he didn’t want to have a bad date and end up having the gym be awkward or risk being “that guy” hitting on women at the gym.

   6. I’m not sure this is actionable advice, but I met my SO on a plane (pre-pandemic). Before that, I had joined some meetups/hobby groups (mine was skiing- the carshare option was a nice way to chat with people in a relatively safe space). I also hated online dating. I’ve had a lot of friends who meet people through friend-of-friend setups, although those always made me a bit uncomfortable.

      1. That’s a cute story! Were you seatmates? I’ve met some very cool people on planes.

         1. Yeah, he was sitting next to me. There was some turbulence at takeoff and I’m not the happiest flier so he started talking to me to help calm me down. Then we talked the whole flight, I gave him my phone number, and the rest is history. I’m not particularly sociable, so this was unexpected but felt right somehow.

   7. I tried online dating for nearly 10 years before I met FH on Bumble. His profile wasn’t great; the only reason I even swiped right on him was because his profile said he was looking for a wife. Our first date started out very awkward and he barely looked at me, but he got more comfortable toward the end of the date. Our second date was great, though. He’s a reserved guy and it takes him a minute to open up to people. So I would say, focus your efforts on guys who share your goals and values, and don’t let yourself get distracted by guys who seem fun and interesting but are just looking for a fling.

   8. Aside from classes and groups, find a reason to visit stores where single men shop: Micro Center, Guitar Center, Best Buy, etc. When we first started dating, I asked my now-boyfriend, “Where were you on the weekends before we met?” and those were some of the places he’d visit to browse. (We did meet online)

6. I stopped working at 5pm yesterday to go to a 5:30 yoga class. My hours are generally flexible, so although I usually end at 6 this is doable too. I didn’t mean for this, but it made such a difference. Because I stopped working at 5 by 10pm I felt like I had had enough time to do everything I wanted or needed to do, and didn’t feel like I had to stay up late for “me” time. I had even read a good chunk of my book. And that means I slept on time and actually got a full night of sleep.
   I thought my hours were perfectly fine and not having a negative impact, but it turns out it really would be grand if I finished work at 5 every day, and work ending at 6/6:30 is what makes me feel like it takes over my whole life even though it really does not.

   1. I would really love a 9-5 job. The closest I ever came was an 8:30-4:30 one that I did routinely come early/stay late for (but late = 6pm) and the ability to leave on time (or even “late”) made that year of my life amazing. I got paid 30K, but would consider doing it again if I ever semi-retire (it was one of those HCOL state state govt jobs where the benefits are stellar but the pay, even 20 years later, is probably not enough to live on absent roommates or a well-paid spouse).

      1. Man, pre pandemic my job was usually 8:15-4:45. Now… starting as early as 7 and ending at 6, with many nights per month if additional work in the evening. Sooooo much hoping that as healthcare moves away from pandemic surge management we can back to at least 8-5!

   2. I feel this in my soul.

   3. Our regular office hours are 7-4pm – I’m in a construction-adjacent field, so everyone starts early. While I am definitely not a morning person and don’t love the early starts, over time I’m more and more thankful for the long evenings.

   4. Keep doing it. I think people let themselves be inefficient and most jobs (yes, even lawyers, I am one) can be done in a lot less time most of the time. Hustle culture says long hours are the thing. You can control and push back on that, especially if you’re not billing time.

      1. +1

         I’m in-house counsel (remote) and probably worked 8ish to 6-7ish. Now that I have a baby, I work 9-5 (because those are my nanny’s hours). I get the same amount of work done. I still occasionally put in a bit of time early morning or on the weekend, but that was the same pre-kid.

   5. I am so much more productive when I have 2 super late work days (like till 10 or later) and then a few short days. Doesn’t need to be that extreme but if you have flexibility in how you organize your time, I really recommend it.

   6. While it was really dark (the whole time the clocks were back really) I was working nine day fortnights with longer hours so I was still 100% FTE. Going back to finishing at or around 5-5.30 has made me feel so much better now the evenings are light enough to enjoy them

7. I know people have gotten masks from Johnny Was, and I wasn’t familiar with the store before that. I got a bunch of their ads on my feed last night and I really liked some things (but was confused by who’d wear others and where they’d go to — festivalwear?). Who typically shops there? Worried about a mutton-dressed-as-lamb (whoops — not “lamp”) vibe on me (40s). I did like a cardigan though, so that seems pretty age-stage-event neutral.

   1. I think Johnny Was’s target demographic is older, so I wouldn’t worry about being mutton dressed as lamb.

      1. This – it’s not my style, but they definitely seem to cater to boho moms, not younger teens.

   2. I think you are supposed to wear Johnny Was dresses to dinner at a fancy spa resort, maybe also to a tasting room in Napa. Otherwise I can’t figure out where they’d be appropriate.

      1. I don’t know exactly where you’re supposed to wear them, but I just looked them up and I know I want a life where I do need to wear dresses like that somehow

         1. I think that’s the point–the brand is selling an aspirational lifestyle. You buy the dress because you want that life, but then it ends up sitting in your closet because you have nowhere to wear it.

      2. Nope, that’s what people think you wear here if you’re from elsewhere and it’s a dead giveaway that you’re on a “wine country” trip.

         1. I think that most people who are planning a wine country trip do not, in fact, think this is what people in Napa wear all the time. But nor are we striving to look like Napa natives when we’re planning our vacations.

            1. Man no one has a sense a humor around here

            2. For me, as a local, it’s the big hat that gives it away.

            3. Lol, yes! Followed closely by high heels in tasting rooms!

            4. Yes! I always want to remind people that vineyards are basically FARMS.

   3. My impression of Johnny Was is that they cater to the near mid life and beyond Bohemian leaning crowd. I’m from Texas and I could see some of the women who typically wear ‘western wear’ liking certain pieces of the Johnny Was collection. I also think of their swim wear and summer wear as unique items you’d wear on vacation.

8. There are programs that give you access to an array of fancy vacation homes. Does anyone know what these are called? NOT time shares.

   1. Like these? https://www.architecturaldigest.com/gallery/luxury-vacation-rental-sites

      1. This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

   2. I know what you’re talking about and can’t think of the name, but I remember looking and thinking it was a clever rebranding of …. time shares.

      1. Time shares have a particular ownership component that I don’t want to deal with. But the concepts are similar.

         1. Ah just checked out the link. Fwiw, I’ve used One Fine Stay a ton of times in Europe and had a great experience with them. Places as advertised, great locations and their concierge services are great (like a grocery shop before you arrive, child care, restaurant reservations, etc.)

            1. Ooh, I am SUPER interested in this – would you mind sharing your thoughts? We’re looking to do a family vacation next year in London/Paris and I’d strongly prefer a vetted apartment vs. hotels.

            2. 12:44 here – so I also love a vetted apartment over a hotel. With one fine stay, pay attention to the “home truths” section (things like up 5 flights of stairs, very small, etc) are invaluable. I also call and talk to them before booking to make sure I’m not missing something and they’ve sometimes recommended a different place that I didn’t notice that better suited what I was looking for. I’ve stayed twice with them in London and had great flats each time. Highly recommend!

   3. Like Inspirato? Idk what you would call it if not bougie timeshare.

9. Would you move to a city you don’t particularly care to live in for a job you love? I have a job that I genuinely enjoy – the work is interesting, my coworkers and managers are fantastic, and the pay/benefits are good – but I work in a MCOL city I don’t want to stay in long-term. There’s also a ceiling in my current location, so if I want to move up in my company, I need to relocate to NY. A promotional opportunity just opened up in NY, and I’m tempted to apply, but I’m having a hard time deciding whether it is the right move. FWIW, I have two small children, so we would likely live in northern NJ. What factors would you considering in weighing the opportunity?

   1. Depends on why you don’t like your MCOL city and whether your salary will increase commensurately, IMHO.

   2. Do you want to live in NJ?

      If you don’t, skip this promotion and go job hunting in the area you want to live.

   3. I love NYC and originally from Northern NJ. Commuting is . . . rough. How old are your kids? How 9-5 is your job (predictability is key b/c you will likely rely at least somewhat on transit), especially if there is a daycare / school pickup involved (are they even doing school?). What is the pay differential?

      I feel like I struggle with all this in a MCOL city with kids and having done an NYC commute, a move-up job is often less 9-5 and if I can’t walk out the door at a fixed time (prefer 8-4, as it is more helpful with the evening rush / dinner /fetching kids), my outside-of-work life falls apart.

      FWIW, I used to take the PATH in, so it was either train to Hoboken (but no train available often if a kid had a dentist/doctor appointment) or drive there, PATH over, walk a couple of blocks. Then reverse. Waiting on a train platform in the winter when it is dark out is no joke.

      Talk to other working moms in the NY office to see how they do it (and if there are none: that is a sign).

   4. I think living in northern NJ with a parent who works in the city would be a perfectly nice and normal place to grow up for your kids, and it sounds like you do need to be there sooner or later. Would your spouse be able to relocate/find a job easily? Did you move to this MCOL city only for this job or was there some other reason – school or family etc?

   5. Wait, so is NYC the city you don’t particularly care to live in? I’ve lived in Brooklyn for 17 years and I think this is really a hard place to be unless you really want to be here. It is expensive, crowded, and a PITA, especially with young children. Maybe the NJ suburbs are better, but I personally don’t find them appealing (slightly less expensive and less crowded but without the excitement and cultural appeal of the city itself). It is hard to justify the cost-benefit analysis on a rational basis unless you just really like it for what it is – dirty, loud, overpriced, but bristling with energy, creativity, and interesting people from across the globe.

      1. +1 Northern NJ is ok, but if it weren’t for family reasons, I would probably live elsewhere. It’s expensive and traffic is terrible.

      2. PS – I would worry about your spouse’s happiness and your own more than how this will impact your kids directly. If you two are happy, they will be fine, and if you aren’t, they will feel it even if they are in a kid paradise.

      3. This. I’m from NYC (relocated to MA burbs for work not long before we had kids) and my husband was just DONE with living in the city. It’s really hard to adjust to all the annoyances if you don’t have family keeping you there/grew up with it, or if you aren’t really really committed to it. NJ burbs can definitely be nice (my extended family is there and we visit often), but culturally (and financially!) it will be a BIG change if this is your first time being VHCOL adjacent plus dealing with tri-state area culture differences.

   6. This happened to me recently. I was recruited for a position in Seattle, and seriously considered it, but in the end, I decided not to pursue it because I love living in California too much. There were other factors too (my DH has a great job, we have family help nearby for our two kids, etc) but I just couldn’t picture myself living in Seattle long term. Your situation sounds different since you don’t want to stay in your current city long term. What does your spouse think?

      1. The OP doesn’t mention a spouse, it’s worth considering the possibility that she is a single parent

         1. He’s open to it if it’s what I want, but it’s definitely not high on his list of places he’d like to live. We have some family that recently moved to the area, so we wouldn’t be completely isolated from our family. He’d also be able to keep his same job.

            1. You haven’t said where you’re moving from, but if it is somewhere warmer don’t disregard having to deal with true snow/ice in the winter (snow clothing for all of you, possibly 1 car with snow tires/4-wheel drive, higher heating bills) as well as nor’easters and hurricane-light type storms in the fall.

         2. If a single parent in a high-level job, I’d see if you can swing a nanny b/c making commuting work (not just NNJ but any NYC suburb) is going to be rough.

         3. Ah good point. If no spouse is in the picture, then I would want to know about the support network generally – friends, family, etc in the two respective cities.

      2. Interested to hear why you didn’t like it. I’m a native Californian considering that move.

   7. I’d think about what comes after this job. Would NY be a relatively short stay (a few years), or are all the jobs that are likely to follow there too? What is your ultimate goal, and how does this promotion factor into that? If you decided to leave your company, does being in NY have better exit opportunities?

      Also look long and hard at the COL, especially in NJ where taxes are astronomical, and make sure the promotion and pay will work for you.

   8. With so many jobs going fully remote, why not explore some of those and looks for ones with offices where you might want to live? That way you can take your time and set yourself up to move to a better market where you’d want to go. With small kids, I would think about a move before they start to get settled in and making friends.

   9. I left my dream job because I hated DC so much. It’s been a struggle since because I haven’t found a job I love as much but I’m so much happier living in a city I love.

   10. I LOVE Northern NJ but I think it is very hard to make work with two parents commuting into NYC unless you plan on having a 60 hour a week nanny. Everyone I know who tried it eventually had one parent (usually the women) become under employed to work closer to home. If this is a career move, I personally wouldn’t do it unless your husband is planning on being the primary parent and not commuting into the city.

   11. Are you familiar with the NYC area? If so, I think this is maybe doable. If you are coming from MCOL you may be underestimating costs/hassle/commute. For example, houses are impossible to find in Jersey right now. Also, where would your office be in the city? If it’s on the east side, I wouldn’t live in Jersey.

10. Has anyone left a very high paying job as you are nearing the most lucrative years? I recently made biglaw equity partner and have been fairly miserable both during the lead up to the promotion and almost more so after. I keep telling myself to wait it out until post-pandemic to see if it gets better but considering it was not great pre-pandemic I am wondering if that’s just delaying the inevitable. If you did leave, did you go in house / to another firm or just quit entirely? If you didn’t leave, what got you through tough times when the money doesn’t feel worth it?

    1. Can you just lean out? Eat what you kill, but kill less?

       I could be a more productive equity partner, but I am leaning into my kids more since they pandemic started b/c they really needed that. I am the equivalent of PT and I know I am never going to better than this (flexibility at least with internal matters; $ is still good).

    2. Are you me? I’m not in biglaw but recently made partner and feel the same way.

    3. I went in-house a few years after making income partner, the year before I would have been up for equity (and was expected to make it). Honestly, I just decided that success, for me, didn’t look like an equity partner’s life. I wasn’t miserable but I didn’t find what I was doing interesting anymore, and I didn’t want to put in the hours if I wasn’t getting anything out of it. I had already leaned out – I wasn’t killing myself hours-wise (I was averaging maybe 160 billed hours a month) – but it just felt like a waste of my time. I got recruited for a super-interesting in-house role, which was about the same comp-wise as what I was making at the firm, but way less than I would have made once I was over the line to equity. People were massively shocked because I was perceived as sort of a star of a young partner, and there were lots of firm admin people who wanted to talk to me about whether I felt like, as a mother of a young child, the firm could be doing something different, but there really wasn’t. My firm was fine, I just wanted to do something else and have a different life, and I have zero regrets.

    4. I left to go in-house right before the partner push years and have never looked back. I love what I do. I’m a GC now and have great comp and a life. I also get to create that for a whole bunch of lawyers, which is pretty awesome.

       1. That’s a really interesting way of framing it – your last sentence.

    5. I was in midlaw, not biglaw, but left a few years after making equity partner. I liked the work and business development, but was so tired of the fights over money and the politics. Took a 50% paycut for a government job. It was a huge adjustment (not just financially, I spent a lot of time in therapy working through what it meant for my identity) and there are things that I miss, but I like what I do, my new coworkers aren’t money-obsessed a-holes, and I’m glad I made the move.

    6. People do this all the time – make partner and then switch to federal government role. Having that partner title makes it easier to go back to a firm later, and gives a catchet that certain nonprofit and government jobs like to see.

    7. I left an equity partnership in BigLaw for a government position. I earn a small percentage of what I would have if I had stayed. I work much, much harder than the frequent perception of those on this list who urge folks to get a 9-5 government job, although slightly less hard than my BigLaw days. I love my job. Love it!

    8. Yes. Quit a year after making partner at a law firm and went to a law adjacent field and have never looked back.

11. What are your favorite plant combos for containers? I have a bunch of large containers to fill on my patio and there are so many choices!

    1. You want one plant that’s taller, one that spills over the side, and one that “fills” (I think thrill-fill-spill is the rule of thumb?) and then go by how much light they’ll get.

       For the spill, Creeping Jenny is always a nice bright green (looks great with a lot of things; ours is paired with geraniums), or alyssum (pretty tiny flowers) will turn into a spill given the opportunity.

    2. I think I read this in Better Homes and Gardens: you want a thriller, a spiller and a filler. So one plant that’s really showy, one that trails down over the side of the container, and then several less-showy plants the fill in the space.
       I haven’t done containers in a few years but different coleus varieties make great fillers.

       1. This is so helpful!

    3. tomatoes! they do well in a bucket-size container!

    4. Combination of trailing Geranium (sometimes called geranium ivy) and Fuchsia, in combinations of pinks and reds in the same pot.

    5. I like to leave room around the edges to plant annuals (pansy, lobelia, petunia, sweet alyssum, depends on season) , which I buy in six packs, and then pull them out and plant new annuals when they look scraggly.

       I like lavender for an anchor plant (something that stays in the pot year round) though they do need to be cut back from time to time, and I have some cyclamen, Gerbera daisies, and tuberous begonias that overwinter fine for me in my climate. In late winter I like to stick nasturtium seeds into pots for some rainy season blooms.

       I also have several pots dedicated to herbs – some perennial and some treated as annuals like basil, parsley, and cilantro. The sage comes back year after year, as do the thyme, oregano, marjoram and tarragon, even though they look a bit sad in winter.

       I have grown cucumbers, baby butternuts, tomatoes, and peppers in large pots but to be honest they do better in the garden as long as they’re in a sunny, well-watered spot.

       Last but not least, I have a pot dedicated to catnip, which my two brother cats ignore 99% of the time, but the 1% of the time they rediscover it, it is pure comedy.

       1. I just checked my pots. In shady locations I also have fuschia, fern, and jade plant as anchors.

12. What hand sanitizer are you using that doesn’t destroy your hands? Bonus points if you can buy it in bulk, but I am also willing to buy small bottles for something that cleans but doesn’t totally crack my aging skin.

    Thanks!

    1. Purell Aloe

    2. Finally have someone to share this with – I bought a dove hand sanitizer from Duane Reade and its fantastic. It doesn’t ruin my hands at all, its not drying. I got a travel size bottle but its not too tiny.

    3. Bath & Body Works

    4. no rec but I’ve been refilling the little purse-size bottles from one big one this whole pandemic. It’s super easy. Less waste and your choice is not limited by available bottle size.

    5. Walgreens brand one that’s light green, I think it’s a copy of Purell Aloe — smells good and is not too harsh.

    6. I’ve been refilling from a big bottle of the Garnier one. It’s gentle enough for my skin and I like that it’s not clear so I can tell at a glance how full my little bottles are.

    7. The Thistle Farms moisturizing hand sanitizer. Smells amazing, sprays on, super soft on hands and supports the incredible mission of Thistle Farms! It also lasts a surprisingly long time.

    8. Thanks to all of you!

       I am buying a few to find my favorites.

    9. Mobile (the gas station) has been selling a pump foam brand that is also a no-sting wound cleaner. It is great if you are someone who constantly has cuts on her hands. I also find it moisturizing and less harsh than the traditional sanitizers.

    10. I really like EO Products: https://www.eoproducts.com/collections/everyone-hand-sanitizer

13. So burned out. Pandemic, practice group that has been sprinting since May of last year with no end in sight, and being forced back into the office by June 1 with a highly encouraged butts-in-seats policy in May to match summer associates arriving.

    I am so exhausted. I am involved with firm leadership in recruiting and get great credit for it every year, so it’s not just busy work. Though I have taken steps to limit what I am doing (i.e., do the bare minimum required). Return to office coincided with summer associates and I am so exhausted. Having to be a social creature and be nice to these summers is impossible after a year in a whole/managing a ton of billable. I am so unproductive and behind on my work because of the social events and getting used to being back in the office–I hate it.

    I really wish firms would understand that WFH flexibility (for some of us who want it) is the difference between thriving at a job and barely surviving. I can’t wait for the summer program to be over.

    Appreciate any commiseration/kind words. I know it’ll get better, but it feels so terrible right now. I have felt hungover since a 300 month last July.

    1. I feel like WFH was something done for a reason (WFH b/c cable guy, etc.) if episodic and some places did WFH one day/week. Some were WFH b/c hires were remote anyway. When we went to WFH b/c pandemic, the reversal was to what the norm was before (for me: in office 10-4, WFH in the evening due to kids), so what does flexibility mean to you?

       I can see businesses moving towards structured partial WFH and the flexibility is more for the surprise ones (WFH b/c kids’ schools are closed for snow, WFH b/c pipe burst).

       1. WFH is still done for a reason. My reason is that I strongly prefer it and it makes me more productive. That’s valid and businesses that don’t understand that people want flexibility are going to lose out on top talent.

          1. What is the flexibility? If you just want to be permanently WFH, you just need to have a discussion. Flexibility is like my WFH day is every Tuesday — maybe I can make that TH for the dentist / plumber / whatever, but I also can’t demand WFH on F (and then really be at the beach then and not wanting to do the W part of WFH).

             Some places may be open to full WFH b/c you won’t take up office space but it’s more of a case-by-case discussion on the basis on your track record and w/ any team you are on. In many places, it’s not cool to be all “I’m working remote today” and send it on an e-mail at 10am. Like there are many shades of WFH and flexibility.

             1. To repeat for the 100th time: WFH is not a vacation day. WFH is not a beach day. People are not lying when they say they are working from home.

             2. If she’s billing 300 hour months I really don’t think this is the situation.

             3. For me, flexibility is being able to WFH when I need to or want to.

                Because I am a firm lawyer, anyone who supervises me can track my hours and everything I do. They can see all-nighters and 12 hour days–I am not at the beach and being efficient and doing all my work in four hours would be reflected in my hours (lol, I wish I could do that). I literally want to be able to be in my house billing that many hours vs. at the office and having to deal with summer associate responsibilities and losing an hour commuting and getting ready for work.

                Not sure if you work in biglaw, but biglaw is annoyingly different about facetime and deviating from the norm can cost you opportunities.

             4. I realize you have been hurt before, but you have to drop this thing about the junior employee who went to the beach.

             5. Oh FFS, totally echoing it’s not a vacation. Did the pandemic teach you nothing?

          2. Perhaps. I do think though that if you have an employer who prefers in-person or majority in person, it may be on you to find a new role where you can WFH, rather than be bitter about your employer requiring in-person. I foresee there being a real split when we come back from this. Some people really do need to be in-person.

             1. This.

                My husbands company had FT WFH people long before the pandemic. If your job wasn’t WFH before, you need to have a discussion and make your case for why this is neutral or ideally better for the company (vs better for you). If you are in a team where in-person is the norm, you may have a hard time making that case. If the people you support or work with are all in other places, your work location will matter a lot less. You may have to give up something: if you lose a lengthy commute, you might gain availability to support people in a different time zone (a key thing that let a friend take a remote job in EST for a company in central time; I know CA people who work on EST and that is rough but there is no traffic and they surf after work sometimes).

    2. I totally respect where you’re coming from and empathize. If possible, I echo those on this board who advised me to do anything I could to take a break from email for multiple days. I did a staycation in a town a short distance away, by myself, didn’t check my email all weekend, told my HIGHLY trusted assistant to call me if there was a true emergency and ignored other calls for a full business day. I felt immeasurably better and on the way to being refreshed.

14. Would you consider a work group for earlier-career women that meets monthly to discuss career growth and challenges discriminatory if it does not include everyone in the company? I’m part of such a group and I just heard a rumor that one of the company VPs considers it discriminatory and wants to meet with me to discuss it on Monday. I don’t agree but I’m struggling with how to phrase my objection to that characterization.

    FWIW, the group meets over lunch time, not work time, but we do use a work Zoom account. Those have been allowed for personal use for other reasons.

    1. wait what. A VP thinks that a group of women who want to be able to talk freely about career challenges (i.e., without the challenging VPs in question listening in) is discriminatory? I would love to hear that person say that in public with a straight face.

    2. Wait, what? Someone thinks a women’s group is discriminatory because it doesn’t include men? Seriously?? I’m unsure why this is on you (are you the organizer of the group?). If any senior exec I worked for gave me that feedback I’d make polite noises in person and then RUN to post my resume online and get the heck out.

       1. Yeah, I’m the organizer. The group is for “early career women” and we have been meeting over lunch for about a year. The meeting is on Monday and I’m distracted and angry already.

          1. I would pretend that I assumed his objection was about excluding experienced employees instead of about excluding men and see if that flustered him.

             1. This.

    3. Oh my. I would direct them to HR – do not take this on yourself.

       If you don’t have HR, or you don’t trust your HR team to deal with this properly, I MIGHT, MIGHT, participate in this call. However, I would not speak much – let them come to the table to attempt to defend this position. Do not allow yourself to be forced to defend the group – make this person defend their position with facts. I’d ask questions such as, I’m curous about the law/company policy/regulation, etc. which supports this argument, can you share it with me so I can have HR and the law department review it?

    4. The only objection I would be able to entertain in good faith would be if your group refused entry to colleagues from other marginalised groups.

       1. It’s not meant to be a group for all marginalized groups. It’s for a specific marginalized group. There is nothing wrong with that. Would you have the same objection to a “U.S. immigrants group” or a “people of color” group?

          1. I don’t know. I do know that as a straight/cis white woman from a wealthy background I have some privileges that other people from marginalised backgrounds might not so it’s my role to advocate for them as well. I facilitate #IAmRemarkable sessions which were originally developed for and by women at Google but which have expanded to help other people who find it difficult to get ahead in the workplace.

             My workplace has a number of affinity groups for people from different groups but we run the #IAmRemarkable sessions as a cross-network offering for that reason.

             1. I don’t consider it my role to do that free labor for everyone else, though. I’d be happy to attend and participate in groups that have goals that I share, but I don’t consider it an obligation to make sure initiatives I want to set up are perfectly attuned to all struggles. I started a women’s group because I care about talking about sexism and misogyny in the workplace. If others don’t feel that that fits their experiences, they should start their own groups and facilitate discussions. I totally support there being plenty of groups to address specific needs and interests – I find the discussion is better that way.

       2. Do you mean that are women, or like a minority male? I think it’s completely appropriate to have a group of all women and not open it to other minorities.

       3. They can have their own affinity groups. Women’s concerns are particular to women. Other groups have different concerns.

       4. This is dumb. If the group is to help women navigate the professional world, it really does not make sense to let cis men in, even if they themselves are part of different marginalized groups. You can still be a misogynist if you’re part of a different marginalized group.

       5. To reply to myself here – I didn’t say that objection would be *right* and that this group shouldn’t exist in its common form – just that it could be a reasonable point of view with which I could engage in good faith. Two different things.

    5. What?!! Discriminatory how? That’s insane.

    6. I’d honestly be tempted to start with “do you (or the person complaining) want to come?” My guess is the last thing they actually want to do is actually attend this group – they’ve just been complaining about it from the golf course or whatever. So call their bluff on it and invite them.

       1. I agree with “hmm.” If the senior man who is complaining is feeling left out because he would like to help fight sexism, harassment, and help ensure that women feel like they can thrive and want to stay, absolutely invite him. Allies in senior leadership are important! I’d even apologize for not inviting him sooner and offer to let him head up [initiative that group has been wanting but will be tough to achieve without someone senior championing it].

          If his intention was just to complain, maybe he’ll be embarrassed into doing something good.

          1. This is what my state’s Women’s Bar group does. It encourages men to join and attend as allies to fend off the whole “well why isn’t there a Men’s Bar.” Particularly because we have some unique networking opportunities like small group dinners with judges.

             1. Isn’t there already a Men’s Bar? It is called the Bar Association.

    7. My org had a group like this focused on mothers. It was informative, engaging, and drove good org wide policy changes. The group was restructured last year to be more inclusive, the name changed and everyone is an ally. Engagement have totally dropped off because we trip over being politically correct and rarely discuss critical topics that were uniquely meaningful to mothers.

       1. Wow, I’m sorry to hear that. That’s a perfect example of these efforts causing dilution rather than inclusion.

       2. Yes, I ran a small, informal mothers group in my division of a large org. We just had lunch together once a month and talked — there were between 3-7 of us at various points. We considered making it a “parents” group, but decided to keep it to mothers only because many of us were new and/or expecting moms we would not have been comfortable discussing how to deal with the physical aspects of pregnancy and pumping with the schedule and demands of our job with men, even if those men were dads. It was a nice safe, space. My office has wider formal affinity groups of several sorts, and I do think it’s appropriate for spaces to exist for people who identify as X to discuss issues together without others present.

    8. In a somewhat similar situation, we explained that we’re happy to open the group to all. However, the focus of topics is centered on our mission, and any participant MUST prioritize making those impacted by that mission comfortable. We do not need cis white men playing “devils advocate” to say, explain why motorcycles need a front row parking space but pregnant women don’t.

       1. I honestly don’t think women will be as open and honest about struggles women face if there are men in the room.

          1. +1. OP here and that is precisely why men are not invited to this group. They’re absolutely welcome to start their own groups.

          2. At my husband’s company the women’s group invites men to some, but not all, of its meetings.

    9. I used to attend an annual meeting for women in my industry. It was great. They had speakers who addressed things like being talked over in meetings etc and then lunch and goodie bags. I loved it.

       We had ONE day a year. But the men at some of the sponsoring companies were “offended” at being excluded so the next year they opened it to “women and allies”. I walked in and at the front of the reception area, there he was, the well-known serial harrasser in my office. I said what are you doing here? He said “I’m an ally.” And that was the last year I went, and attendance fell off sharply.

       We can’t have one day, ladies.

       1. 100% this.

       2. That’s terrible. I wonder if the “allies” will at least learn something attending these meetings. Like, yes, it is rude and sexist to speak over women.

    10. You might find this resource informative

        https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/employment-law/pages/affinity-groups-risks-rewards.aspx

    11. My post seems to have gone into mod / vanished. There is a good article on the SHRM website titled “Todays Affinity Groups Risks and Rewards”.

        I recommend taking a read of it before just deciding your VP is in the wrong (even if he is)! There are good suggestions in there like getting an executive sponsor, and aligning on group goals/expectations.

15. Fellow performers, any tips for managing stage fright? 20+ years ago, I somehow managed to earn a degree in music performance while suffering from debilitating stage fright, relying largely on preparation, sheer force of will, and an amazing accompanist I was lucky to have for my full-length solo recitals. At graduation, I “retired” from music and somehow ended up in a career that involved frequent public speaking. When I was called “unflappable” when my mic cut out while I was speaking on a controversial topic to 500+ judges at a judicial conference, I figured I’d finally kicked stage fright to the curb.

    In the fall of 2019 I joined a choir. I was not a voice major, have never had a voice lesson, and have only been a recreational choir singer. Singing in the choir was mildly stressful because I was assigned to stand front and center where the conductor could definitely pick out my voice and because I was often the only one in the alto section singing the right note, but it was not terrible. Now that we are all vaccinated and in-person singing is permitted within strict parameters, we are doing small ensembles. I have been placed in the most advanced quartet. This is the first time I’ve ever had to carry a part on my own in a vocal ensemble. The piece is very straightforward except for some awkward voiceleading in a couple of spots. The soprano is very solid, bass is fine, tenor sometimes has trouble hitting his notes.

    Our first rehearsal was last night, outdoors, distanced, masked, and time-limited. It was … awful. The mask messed up airflow so I couldn’t make the phrases. I hit the wrong note a few times and missed some entrances. My range is gone from 14 months of lack of practice, so the tone quality on the long high notes was terrible. My musicianship in general was not what I wanted the director to hear. Worst of all, each mistake made me more nervous about messing up, which of course just made it worse.

    We have one more half-hour rehearsal and then either a one-take recording session or three live performances. I want very badly to show this conductor that I am a real musician even if I am not a real singer. Aside from better preparation (I had 20 minutes to read through the piece before rehearsal) and practicing in a mask, how can I get into the zone and stop getting in my own way? I should know how to do this by now, but apparently not.

    1. Try to have confidence (and I’m sure others will recommend anxiety meds but some can effect your speech as a side effect so be aware of that) … but also you can choose not to do this. Do you want to do it, are you enjoying it, does it benefit you somehow? Is it really just about proving something to a conductor?

       1. Yes, I absolutely want to do this because I love making music. I want to show the conductor that I can reliably deliver a solid performance so I will be offered similar opportunities in the future.

    2. I think you need to stop being so hard on yourself! Sounds to me like you’re perfectly good at this.

    3. Good for you getting back to it! The thing that helps me most is solo practice so I’m confident I know what I’m doing and more experience doing the thing that makes me uncomfortable. I’m sure with more solo practice and getting your voice into shape and getting comfortable with the group, you’ll start to feel better. If I have a one-off solo performance I’m particularly nervous about, a propranolol 30-60 minutes before helps but I wouldn’t do that every time or for every rehearsal.

    4. Unless I’m completely misreading the situation, it sounds like you are overthinking this and putting way too much pressure on yourself. Singing in a mask is hard, and everyone is in the same boat. It’s not going to be perfect. It doesn’t have to be perfect. No one is judging you the way you are judging yourself. This isn’t Broadway. If it’s no longer fun because you find it too stressful, opt out!

    5. Ok, obviously your problem isn’t actually stage fright. your problem is you’re being way too hard on yourself! You’re expecting 100% perfection from yourself immediately and that’s not realistic. I’m sure your choir director is not expecting that from you.

    6. Fellow music major here. I don’t have stage fright, but I also don’t participate in groups I don’t enjoy, since I work in another field and am under no pressure to make my living with my music. It doesn’t sounds like this is much fun for you. So, my main piece of advice is to find a group that you enjoy, even if it’s less advanced.

       Next, remember that audiences are mostly made up of old people whose hearing aids may or may not work well. Especially right now, everyone in that audience is so damn glad to be back together at a concert post-pandemic that you could break into Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap in the middle of Ave Maria and they’d be thrilled anyway.

       You aren’t there to show the conductor anything (unless you are, which means there is a lot more to unpack); you are there to do something different and have fun. Rage playing to prove a point is not fun. I’ve been there, done that and it’s a fast ticket to burnout town. After 4 years of music school and a degree it took a long time for it to become fun again.

       1. One more thing to add…. work on becoming okay with trying your best and still sucking. It’s part of the learning process. You have to spend a lot of time being bad to get good at anything. If it’s been a zillion years since you failed at anything, that’s something to unpack. Me, I’ve been a screwup all my life, so I’ve had plenty of time to learn to deal.

          1. This^^^

          2. Ha–I’m very okay with sucking while practicing on my own. What I need to get better at is sucking in front of others, or more specifically moving on from it.

    7. I’m an opera singer and my teacher recommended the Don Greene centering exercises for use before auditions and performances. She sent me a PDF of the exercises, but here is his website, which has a lot of great resources: https://www.winningonstage.com/

       1. This looks great–thank you!

    8. Fellow musician here. Haven’t you tried propranolol yet?

       There is a reason why half of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra is on propranolol. You are in good company.

       Just try it. Your anxiety will tell you not to, but you just need to get over that. And take a mindfulness class.

    9. Another fellow musician here. It sounds like you mostly have a preparation problem; you were not given enough time to prepare properly and that is driving most of your anxiety (and it’s all tied up with your stage fright from 20 years ago). So give yourself lots of time to practice your own part and treat yourself like a vocalist: plenty of water, rest, rehearsal, silent practice. Make sure you’re already warmed up when you get to rehearsal. Your voice will come back really quickly, especially if you practice gently and don’t wear yourself out. Really make sure to hydrate and avoid dairy before singing if you can (I’m sure you already do this stuff). You might look into ordering a mask with more space around the mouth (lots of these available now).
       You might also need a mantra for those times when you do mess up in front of others so you can recover quickly. I’ve used phrases like “tell the story”, “stay in the sound”, “connect”, etc.
       Also, as someone who sometimes works with amateur adult musicians who have performance degrees, you are a conductor’s dream. We are always thrilled to have someone in the group who generally knows what they’re doing, even if they’re rusty.

16. I wanted to share a dating insight FH and I were talking about the other day. I was dating and looking for a husband for a long time before I met him. I was consistently frustrated with guys who said they wanted a relationship but then balked at doing the simplest things “for me” (really for us) if they were even a teensy bit inconvenient. Like, walking me to my car after a concert instead of immediately leaving to meet up with his friends; staying at my place once a week which increases his commute by 15 minutes/requires him to pack a bag/any number of minor inconveniences that come along with staying at someone else’s house; missing a last minute bar night with his friends to attend a long-planned, already RSVPed-to milestone event with my friends; I could go on. These were otherwise nice guys, but it was incredibly grating to be treated like I was a huge burden or had unreasonable expectations. I always joke that I was training men for other women – or maybe more accurately, introducing them to the concept that a relationship with another human means she has a life too and isn’t just an accessory to your life.

    Well apparently FH did nonsense like this before me. He was single for a long time and just sort of woke up one day and decided it was time to find a wife. He started dating and quickly figure out that being in a relationship takes a lot more effort than he thought. He was initially resentful until he accepted that a relationship means blending two lives together not just slotting someone into your life. I still don’t understand why men miss this part of socialization, but for whatever reason they do, even the kind and empathetic ones. So I guess I would say, I’m glad I had the experiences I did so I could set very clear expectations and be ready to walk away without too much hand-wringing, and I’m glad he had the experiences he did so he anticipated those expectations and was prepared before I met him.

    1. Yup. I think training men to eventually be better partners for other women is a very common experience.

    2. I think it’s more about maturity than about being “trained.” In his 20s, my husband was considerate, acted like a well-trained “gentleman,” and would gladly have done any of the things the guys you were dating refused to do (walk a date to her car, etc.), but he still wasn’t ready for the kind of relationship that would lead to marriage. Just like your husband, towards the end of his 20s he suddenly woke up and decided it was time to find a wife. He didn’t treat women any differently, but he started looking for a different type of relationship.

       1. +1 to this. My husband was the same and I’ve seen this with many of my guy friends and also seeing my frustrated girl friends when their exes have decided to find a wife for lack of a better phrase. I think the frustrating part for many women is that men can’t be pushed into the switch, it just seems to happen. So if the guy you are dating isn’t interested in finding a wife and you want to be married, cut your losses and move on. It’s not you, it’s him

       2. +1. I’ve ditched a bunch of terrible dudes who I’m sure learned nothing. But I do agree that the problem is that these men don’t see women as fully formed people who aren’t put on earth to serve a role for them without any independent thoughts of their own.

          Is it important to us/women to believe we taught them something, I wonder?

          1. I think there are terrible dudes like the ones you dated and OP describes, and then there are regular considerate guys. The terrible dudes will always be terrible and cannot be trained out of it. The considerate guys do not need to be trained but they still need to grow up. The only thing women can do about it is to look for (or be lucky enough to happen across) the considerate guys who have already done their growing up. The idea of “training” guys for future relationships is a fallacy.

    3. Given the thread about the women’s group above, are we really surprised that men revolt when they discover that one tiny aspect of the world doesn’t revolve around them?

17. Is DEI (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion) not a common term these days? This is part vent, part genuinely curious. I was in a happy hour Zoom call with some colleagues/friends (we don’t work at the same company, just in the same field) and someone brought up that they were looking into DEI training programs for our industry, and the one white male on the call asked “What is DEI?” He had genuinely never heard of the term. And I, with a bit of irony, said, “You not knowing what DEI is is probably part of the problem.” I feel like I was unnecessarily harsh, but…. ? And we work in a field known for being rife with liberal thinkers.

    1. I love your comeback, but this isn’t something I’d spend any more time agonizing over.

    2. I think you’re reading to much into this. If he didn’t know the term at all, that’s weird, but ….. are SO MANY acronyms. Who can keep up.

    3. Both my current and and prior employers use the term D&I, and both take these concepts very seriously. I’d never heard DEI until reading it in your post, and I’m heavily involved in these initiatives for my current company.

       So…I kind of think you missed the mark since it was likely a terminology issue and not a conceptual one.

       1. I think DEI is the most commonly used one, but if you aren’t tuned into the broader conversation, then maybe you hear only about it through internal communications, and if that workplace uses IDEA, JEDI, D&I or any of the other terms, then yeah.

       2. My current employer who has an entire diversity and inclusion month globally uses D&I, so I would have recognized that but not DEI.

       3. Same. I had never heard DEI until this post, so probably would have asked the same question as your coworker. My firm uses D&I, but in the moment, I wouldn’t have necessarily made the connection between DEI and D&I.

          In general, I think it is always best to give people benefit of the doubt when it comes to acronyms anyways.

    4. It’s a well-known term if you’re up on the most current corporate lingo for discussing what, just 18 months ago, people most commonly referred to as “diversity issues” or “diversity and inclusion,” but not everyone is, including people who do actually care about these things but aren’t focused on it as a job function or don’t work in a corporate environment. I do think you were overly harsh, to be honest – assuming someone’s views based on a failure to know the absolute most current terminology isn’t really fair.

       1. +1

       2. +1

       3. This, it’s a pretty recent swap from D&I to DE&I. Same with ESG being a ‘newer’ TLA (which I still cannot reliably name the individual components of…)

    5. You were way too harsh. I wouldn’t immediately recognize DEI. My organization never abbreviates it. Gate keeping by using unexplained abbreviations is a problem.

    6. I work in a field that skews liberal and deals with all three of those ideas constantly (as in, it’s part of the core principles that guide our work), and I’ve seen all thee of those words used together (and usually in that order), but never the acronym. I don’t think I would necessarily figure out what it was referring to on my own, either.

       I think we have to be careful about making people feel ignorant about newer jargon and just never assume. A person can be 100% on board with those ideas but unfamiliar with the terminology.

       1. … it also isn’t very inclusive to assume, either!

       2. Agree completely. The focus on jargon and admonishing people for being ignorant of the most recent changes is really toxic IMO. It’s also the most harmful to people with lower SES, less education, and non-native English speakers.

          1. This. DH is non-first language English and hates how ubiquitous complicated acronyms have become.

    7. This is the first time I have heard that acronym and my company has leadership/programming in all of these areas…

    8. I didn’t know the acronym either, and I consider myself fairly liberal. I’m not good at remembering acronyms, and I don’t work in a large company (small law firm here), so that’s probably why I didn’t know. I agree you were a bit harsh, but he’ll get over it.

    9. We use the DE&I term/acronym at my federal agency. I also thought it was ubiquitous.

    10. Yeah, this type of reaction is unnecessarily harsh and will backfire on you if your goal is to do anything other than shame people. Look up the concept of “calling in” instead of calling out.

    11. I’ve never heard the acronym before though obviously I know what diversity & inclusion programs are. I don’t think it’s a great look to be snooty about knowing acronyms.

        1. Yeah, on this or any other subject, being snooty about acronyms comes off as really unkind.

    12. I don’t understand; did he just not recognize the acronym? I am very bad with acronyms since there too many that are too similar, and I am even worse when they’re spoken (if I see it spelled out I can narrow it down more).

    13. I’m liberal and never heard this acronym before.

        1. Same and agree with “calling in” rather than calling out.

           1. OP, I would suggest apologizing.

              1. Good idea.

              2. +1

    14. yea you were too harsh. my company calls it “equity work” and not everyone uses “diversity” in the phrase. I know what DEI is as a POC who is actively pushing forward equity work but I don’t think someone not knowing the acronym is a symptom of equity issues…I think not agreeing that equity is important is a symptom of those issues.

    15. I think the E part is new. In fact, my group calls it IED now, but before it was D&I. I know when we introduced the term equity into our mission we had to put together a slide on what equity meant and why it was important.

        I do think you were unnecessarily harsh to someone asking a genuine question.

        1. IED is an unfortunate acronym, but perhaps appropriate. This issue does tend to blow up without warning.

           1. Ha!!

              But honestly the other IED is how I remember our new acronym, because I was so used to D&I.

    16. I’ve never heard the term or heard DH mention the term. We’ve both taken part in and supported the organization of various diversity, equity and inclusion related programming including programs focused on women, BIPOC, Indigenous specific, LBGTQIA+, and Trans specific.

        As a general rule, from a workplace with a lot of acronyms, when using an acronym, I will state the full term before assuming someone does not know what it means. Especially over zoom it is easy to mishear something.

    17. You should apologize. You came after a coworker for not knowing a newly-invented acronym at a happy hour? If anyone in that exchange is part of the problem, it’s not him.

        1. I’m a progressive, lead our local Indivisible chapter, am a long-time lesbian feminist very familiar with issues associated with inclusion and diversity, and I didn’t know the term. I left the corporate world three years ago and wonder if I missed the switch to that acronym. I also wonder if it’s regional?? Here in the Midwest are we slower to adopt that acronym??

        2. +1

18. Predictably, I love this shirt. If anyone has seen anything similar from more internationally available brands please let me know!

    What I came here to say was to encourage you all to check out new shops and coffee places that might have opened in your city while we’ve all been staying at home. I have been going to a new ‘urban farm shop’ (painfully boujie, I know) that does amazing coffee and great baked goods, and is just about to launch a veg box delivery programme (like a CSA)

    1. Yes! Almost everything in my neighborhood opened during the pandemic or shortly before. There are a bunch of new businesses waiting anxiously in the wings. I have tried to patronize them throughout to the extent I can but I really want to see them all widely supported when they are fully functioning. I feel like this year is make or break for my neighborhood.

19. What do you think life will look like in a year related to the pandemic? I am so curious what the new normal will be. Will we all be avoiding hotspots and variants or will COVID mostly be a thing of the past? Will masks indoors still be a thing? Will there be concerts? Will a majority of the world be vaccinated? Will we be traveling internationally?

    I have no idea. Just wondering what everyone else thinks.

    1. I predict that in the US, masks indoors will go away quickly. Probably more quickly than they should. My employer is getting ready to relax that requirement at work and it feels weird, even though I live in a city where 70% of the eligible population has been vaccinated and more than half of people in my office are still working from home.

       1. TBF, I feel like once we have reached the point where we wait 6 weeks after vaccinations are widely available (as they are now in the US), masks should be optional. If someone elects not to vax, I have zero tolerance for continuing restrictions on me to protect them.

          1. Have you considered that vaccines actually aren’t a good option for some people, as in they won’t offer a lot of protection to those who already have weakened immune systems due to medical conditions. Vaccines aren’t available to anyone under 16. Not everyone who is eligible can get an appointment the first day that they become eligible. Impoverished & elderly people may not have the ability to go to a mass vaccination site (due to disability or inability to get time off from work, for example). Also … you’re barely restricted. Are you also mad about having to wear a bra to work? Because I hear that’s another post-pandemic concern.

             1. So you joke about the bra but yes, it is a concern of mine. I’m not the person to whom you are replying. I have big boobs and the bras that properly fit and support me are tight and not that comfortable. Yes, I have been properly fitted and yes, pre-pandemic I thought that was as comfortable as comfortable could get.

                All WFH I’ve been wearing coobie bras. They provide no lift for me at all but keep the jiggling to a non-painful level and cover the nips. My clothes do not look any where near as good over a coobie as a regular bra. But now, I can’t stand to wear a regular bra for more than 3 hours. I plan on getting fitted again to make sure my size didn’t change.

                So, yeah, I wish having saggy boobs was totally cool and I could just wear a coobie everyday.

             2. You can just wear a Coobie every day. Just “lean out” of the perky boob obligation to put it in corporate speak.

             3. That’s kind of the point — you wouldn’t even consider not wearing one.

             4. Totally off topic but have you checked out a bra that fits (redd1t)? I’m a G that Nordstrom previously “fitted” into a D, and now that I know my real size, I’m so much more comfortable in my bras.

             5. Nordstrom had me in a G so I thought they did it right but it can’t hurt for me to check it out myself too!

             6. OH, re: now being properly fitted. I think my bras became somewhat less comfortable when properly fitted because I went down band sizes. The bra is more comfortable on my actual breasts but way more restrictive around the rib cage.

             7. You say barely restricted, but you acknowledge it’s still restrictive. I wear a mask now because it is required, but I am not going to do so long term. And you should understand the vast majority of Americans are in my camp.

          2. I’m with you, it just feels so weird after the last year to walk around my office not wearing a mask!

          3. I’m with you. Also, it’s not a bra.

    2. IDK my kid got sent home from school for 2 weeks for coughing. Admin was sorry and laughed that he was surprised that more kids don’t do this. Ped office did COVID and strep tests, both negative. At least this year kiddo can log into classes remotely to keep up. And at least I can WFH (but at a job that I do better at when I am not the lunch lady and tech support and moral support for a kid with a mere cold). I didn’t get tested myself (ped practice just tests kids) but I’ve only had one shot. Even not having Corona is disruptive — I’m eager for that to end.

    3. I think the main difference will be in how we work and the clothing we wear. First, I think many companies sold the idea to their employees that their jobs were impossible to do from home. COVID-19 proved that was a lie. People will demand more flexibility in regards to work from home or flex time. Being able to work from home a few days a week will begin to be a dealbreaker for many employees, and top talent will be able to negotiate more flexibility and work from home days.

       Second, I think restrictive pants with buttons and zippers are over for women. Sure, some women will continue to wear them, but a lot of women are not going to continue to put up with wearing pants all day that don’t have elastic waist bands.

       1. And hard shoes that hurt. I am never going back to painful shoes.

          I do think/hope that people will continue to wear masks when they are ill.

          1. Yes, no to heels or flats that dig in. No more. I refuse. And anything that I have to pull in at the waist with a belt to make work. No thanks.

             1. Hear hear!

    4. I can see myself wearing masks to the grocery store/airport/any location where many people pass through, for a long time.

       1. Same. I fully intend to keep a mask handy so I can wear it whenever I am stuck meeting with someone who clearly should have called in sick that morning…

          1. ohhhh I like this. It throws a little passive aggressive shade their way. Not sure I’d have the guts to do it.

       2. Same. & I actually consider it a privilege that I can do so without too much fear of anti-maskers as a white woman, unlike my Asian friends right now :(

    5. I think that masks are quickly going to fade away indoors — but I think that international travel is still going to be limited due to slow vaccinations.

    6. My fear is that India is a bellwether, especially the more the virus is allowed to mutate thanks to the anti-vaxxers. I’m trying to enjoy the summer because I worry that by fall/winter we’ll all be shut down again.

       1. +1
          It’s clear this virus is great at mutating, and with so much community spread in the US and abroad, it’s only a matter of time before an extra deadly variant that’s vaccine resistant takes over. I don’t want to go back to full lockdown like March/April 2020 was here in NYC, but I’m also worried that by then people who just not GAF and let thousands die with a shrug. I’m fully vaccinated but plan to continue masking for the foreseeable future… not sure how long that will be. That’s all I can do, I think.

20. Does anyone else have days where you feel like your spouse/SO is the most irritating person on the planet. I feel like all I want is an empty condo and to not talk to anyone for 48 hours. DH can tell I’m annoyed with him, which is making him insecure and clingy, which is making me increasingly more annoyed.

    1. Yes! I started working from the office again just so I can get away. I think this is a quarantine issue. Love him to death, and he didn’t use to annoy me, but after a year of being together non-stop, I can’t take any more! To save my relationship I recognized I need to get a break during the day.

    2. Yes. I wish that at least every other week that I could have an entire day and night without them around. Alone time is so helpful for my mental health. Reason 101 why I miss work travel…

    3. I understand your irritation, but IMO, when you’re part of a marriage or relationship, you have an obligation to not explode your irritation on your spouse. You need to step away, take a break, do whatever you need to do to get the me-time you need, but making a toxic atmosphere in the house (where your DH is aware you are annoyed at him and feels upset/hurt) is really bad. Just be direct – “I really need some me-time to decompress and not have to talk. I’m going to lock myself in the study and watch Bravo for a few hours” is much, much more effective and productive than getting snippy/irritable.

       1. Sounds to me like she’s trying to carve out solo time but DH isn’t letting it happen.

          1. I didn’t get that vibe at all. All she said was that she’s irritated and DH can tell.

             1. +1 OP needs to do something about this other than complain on the internet.

             2. I got that vibe when she said he was “clingy”
                And I’m a different poster than the one you’re responding to
                Not sure why you’re all in on defending the husband, unless you are actually the husband

             3. She also said he’s becoming more clingy, which seems like he is resisting her efforts to carve out alone time.

             4. Agree with this. It’s not fair to be annoyed at him and not give him an opportunity to remediate it.

             5. Because I grew up in a house where people responded to irritations with silent treatment and snapping at family. It was toxic and damaging.

             6. It’s also not fair for DH to not give her the space she needs to stop being annoyed. Very confused by the pile-on here. I think some of y’all are projecting your personal silent treatment trauma because that doesn’t sound at all like what OP’s saying.

             7. Because she has not asked him for space. If you’re annoyed, you need to use your words.

    4. My BF and I don’t live together yet for this reason. We’re both WFH and were already talking about moving in together in March 2020 when the pandemic hit, and we decided that it’s worth it for him to keep his place and spend 3-4 days there every other week so we have a chance to be alone and miss each other. I love him but being near another person 24/7 is too much.

    5. One of the reasons DH and I get along so well is our ability to have together but alone time. Usually I’m curled up on the couch watching some trashy reality show and he’s reading a book in his favorite armchair. My BFF is super jealous because her DH just cannot shut up if they are in the same space. She feels like she has to constantly entertain him, and it’s really wearing her down. I’ll tell you the same thing I tell her – you’ve got to communicate with him and also let go of your own guilt for putting your needs before his wants. If you tell him you need some alone time and his response is, ok sad face, let it roll off your back. Do not give in and then resent him. Do not angrily react. Do not ruin your alone time by feeling guilty. Just let it go and talk about it later. He is allowed to be disappointed but he is not allowed to make his disappointment your problem, and you are not allowed to take on his disappointment as your problem.

    6. Off topic, but have you done the enneagram test? Your husband sounds like a type 2. It is interesting to do these tests and learn more about each other’s personality type.

    7. Solidarity. I thoroughly enjoy falling asleep to random HGTV/Bravo/Food Network, which was my plan one evening when my husband was working late. 10 minutes into the second episode he comes in to work from bed and asks if he can turn the channel.
       Uh…NO. What the hell. I was within five minuted of happily drifting off to sleep and now I’m just grumpy AF.

    8. I need an irrational level of silence to work. Thank God I don’t have kids. Even in my work office I have my door shut a lot because I am distracted by every little noise. DH and I work different schedules about 3 hours off from each other on each end. So I get super annoyed at totally normal stuff (and I don’t tell him about it usually) even just playing with our dogs in a cute voice or vacuuming, especially vacuuming, while I’m working.

       The worst though is the end of my workday is the best time for him to exercise. I agree that the way our lives are set up he has no other good time. So, he does Insanity with all sorts of jumping that basically shakes the entire upstairs while I’m working.

       I tend to forget he may be on work calls and will just go down to the basement (where his desk is) talking. This drives him nuts, for good reason.

       He has work gear that is best stored (for safety reasons) in my office so he has to come in and get that whenever he is going out in the field. I like to keep my conversations more private and confidential than is probably even required so I end up scurrying to another room while I’m on the phone while he gets his gear … or returns his gear. (Since I know I’ll get questions about the gear, it has to go in a work provided safe bolted in the wall and floor of our house, in the room least accessed by non-family members. That’s our home office and it would be very difficult to relocate it.)

       We have done really well throughout the pandemic overall but I think we will both be thrilled to work some days in the office again. I will particularly be glad to be in the office after his workday ends so I’m not listening to him do fun things while I still work.

       1. Ummm a lot of things you mention aren’t normal and you should ask him to knock it off (and you also should knock it off to the extent you’re doing anything like this). Vacuuming does not need to be done while you are working. He doesn’t need to jump around and shake the entire upstairs, especially when you have a basement – he can either work out in the basement or find a different exercise that isn’t disruptive. On your end, you shouldn’t walk into his workspace making noise. Like seriously I wouldn’t put up with some of this stuff from a neighbor, nevertheless my own husband.

    9. Yes all the time. Married 21 years with no plans to change that. Sometimes we all need a break.

    10. I am not married and live alone and I have never lived with an SO. (I have an SO of 2 years but we live very independent lives.) I admit I don’t have any personal experience of this. But I am shocked when I hear that coupled people have gone through an entire year+ without realizing they can and should be giving each other some space. Unless you live in a studio apartment and have decided it is super scary to spend the night anywhere else — good G-d, give each other a night off. Sleep in separate rooms. Go to a hotel or AirBnB or a friend’s house or a campsite. Just get out for a day or two or three. Then do it again in a few weeks. I mean, my SO and I have said from early on that we both believe in separate bedrooms from the get-go. I know that is unconventional, but I feel like this is at least the third post I have seen here where someone is like “I had never even considered that my spouse and I could sit in different rooms for a while!”

        1. Sleeping apart is the best thing that ever happened to my marriage.

21. Hey Gorgeous! such a helpful post thank you. your taste of style & fashion is pretty cool, really! It is going to help me with my wardrobe addition. You also try lashes to highlight your eyes, Here are some unique and stylish ideas about lashes…just have a look. I’ll make sure you’d love to see this welcome and appreciate some stylish finds atMegaValumeLashes thank you.

Comments are closed.