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Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Ellen
Yay! Frugal Friday’s! I love Frugal Friday’s and this sleevless top. Great Pick, Elizabeth! It is so hot that I am believe it or not wearing a top just like this b/c I am about to walk to work. Dad says I do NOT have to walk back b/c it will be to hot, but I do have to walk now. Myrna’s Triathalon got cancelled b/c of the heat so we will be going to the Hamton’s to stay with Margie and her toddler. The manageing partner has to go out of town for a bris this weekend, but Margie decided to stay home b/c Nora has colic. I hope we can all stay cool this weekend, all b/c of global warming. FOOEY! When will the world realize they need to stop polluting and driving cars? We are taking the train out this weekend b/c Myrna’s car does not have good air conditioning, and we will stay away from the bars, b/c the sweaty guys love to paw Myrna and she is NOT up for any of that in this heat. DOUBEL FOOEY!
Lana Del Raygun
I’m looking for a checklist app (Android) that allows me to add things to multiple lists and have the checkboxes sync. Eg if I have “buy putty” on my “bathroom remodel” list, I want to be able to assign it to the “Home Depot” list so I’m reminded about it when I go to Home Depot, but then I can check it off Home Depot and have it automatically checked off “bathroom remodel” as well. Beyond that there aren’t any features I care very much about (although I always have a preference for stripped-down apps that don’t demand extraneous permissions). Does anyone know of such a thing?
Anonymous
That sounds amazing!
BabyAssociate
Google Keep
Anon
+1 Love this app
Cb
I think you might use something like todoist or anydo and use tags? So you’d put buy putty on your Bathroom list and tag it as Home Depot?
Vicky Austin
Any.do Premium has a “tags” feature that might be able to do what you describe (e.g., tag something for one “list” when it’s on the other actual list), but it’s paid.
IHHtown
This is what I do. There is also a free version that you can test out for a bit and I believe a trial period for the premium version. It is exactly what you describe, even with the satisfaction of scratching through the item on your screen. Plus it has a very simple interface but lots of features.
anonchicago
My partner and I use Wunderlist, which runs on a Microsoft platform. We have multiple lists for shopping trips, including a Costco list, Jewel list, and general stuff for the house. It syncs between our phones so we can just check it and see what the other person needs.
Anonymous
+1 love wunderlist!
anon@hotmail.com
My favorite list app is just the web app qlist.cc . But it can’t do this particular thing.
MagicUnicorn
I am loving Elizabeth’s style and would love to see a week of outfits put together with her picks.
Anonymous
I have been enjoying her picks as well. Kat is still the best, though, for her shoe picks.
Coach Laura
Love (almost) all Elizabeth’s picks. She and April on the mom’s board are fantastic.
Veronica Mars
Thanks to whoever posted yesterday about the Athleta sale. I’ve never ordered from them but needed some new workout tops. Hopefully they’ll work out!
Anon
My firm gives attorneys 18 weeks of paid maternity leave, while staff get 6 weeks paid maternity leave. Does anyone else’s firm do this? It seems unconscionably classist – announcing loud and clear that attorneys’ health and children matter more than staff’s. (Not to mention that in our HCOLA, staff are likely to struggle to take unpaid leave.) We’re a firm of about 100 people (attorneys and staff), and there’s only 1-2 women per year going on maternity leave.
Does your organization have different maternity policies between employee groups? It really bothers me, but maybe it’s the norm.
Lana Del Raygun
You’re right, that’s awful. We have the same policy for everyone, but that policy is “save your vacation time or beg for donations, suckers.” It’s government though so not a direct comparison.
Anon
It’s very standard in Big Law for attorneys to get more time than staff. To be fair, staff mat leave is still generous for the US (12 weeks paid) and staff are returning to a 9-5 role, not an all-consuming attorney role with much longer hours and near 24/7 expected availability.
Anon
I’m in manufacturing and get nothing but FMLA protection. This is the reality for most American workers, so 6 weeks is great comparatively.
Anon at 9:13 makes a great point. Lawyers work crazy hours, and the staff does not. So a longer maternity leave may be merited in this case.
Anon
I think this is the norm. It bothers me too but every firm I’ve been at has different benefit packages for attorneys and staff. FWIW in my experience it isn’t universally worse for staff across the board – for example healthcare premium contributions are significantly lower for staff (to the extent that for staff the contributions are a significantly lower percentage of pay than for most associates) than attorneys and staff is eligible for 401(k) matching but attorneys are not. I dont like that staff doesn’t get the same maternity leave benefits but in my experience it is the norm.
Anon
Yes this. Benefits are just different across the board and in some ways better for staff.
anon
Right, but would rather have slightly better benefits and make $50k per year, or slightly worse benefits and make $250k per year? Because I can tell you which one I’d prefer.
There is typically a vast income disparity between staff and attorneys. Not having to pay insurance premiums (usually in a high deductible situation where you still have to cough up thousands of dollars out of pocket before you meet a deductible) is cold comfort when you’re trying to make it on $50k a year.
Anon
I think the point is that staff/attorneys are just different jobs and are treated differently across the board. Attorneys also usually have a lot of loans, don’t get overtime, etc.
The jobs and compensation packages are just completely different. I’d love for that to not be the case but as others have pointed out, literally any paid time off is better than the vast vast majority of Americans.
Rather than getting riled up about how firms give certain perks to attorneys as part of recruiting, I will continue to advocate for government mandated paid leave for all.
Anonymous
Staff gets free health care where I work and subsidized rates for dependent / family health care unless they are executive staff (in which case it is still at a reduced rate).
Anonymous
Yes to different benefits between attorneys and staff. I also have to paylike $170 a pay period for long term disability insurance. Staff has the option to opt in, it’s required that all attorneys have LTD insurance. It’s the largest deduction from my paycheck besides 401(k)
Anon
My biglaw firm also does. Everyone gets 6 weeks (or 8 for a c section) that is covered by the short-term disability policy with the firm topping off to full salary, and attorneys get another 10 weeks paid. As a practical matter, it doesn’t have any impact because all of our staff are past childbearing. I agree that it isn’t great and I wish the benefits were the same, but there are lots of benefit differences between staff and attorneys at law firms and I don’t think this is the worst one. At least in biglaw, firms offering things like extended maternity leave is just another form of the salary and bonus wars – one firm started it, and all the others went along with it because it was necessary for recruitment and retention.
Anonymous
That’s super classist and cringey.
Anon
+1
If you’re in any position of power at all, work to change this.
Anonymous
How is it different than paying associates 5x more than staff?
anon
Because maternity leave is for mother/child bonding and health and salaries and wages are for skills. You pay more for more advanced skills, but every mother and child deserves the same amount of bonding and health time.
rosie
It’s not, as long as things like maternity leave and healthcare access are considered part of the compensation package and not a basic human right.
Anonymous
I think that’s awful. Could it be that they get 6 weeks STD and then 6 weeks of maternity leave? B/c most day cares will not take a 6 week old baby. Frequently they will take a 12 week old baby.
Anon
Many daycares in the US will take 6 week olds. A lot of people in the US only have 6-8 weeks off.
Anonymous
Wow — I know of one that does in my large SEUS city (it is the 24-hour one out by the airport).
I suspect that the 5-star highest end ones that cater to executives start at 12 weeks and the ones that deal with poorer women are the ones that start at 6 weeks. 6 weeks is so different than 12.
Anon
I don’t know. I live in a really affluent area and go to the most expensive daycare in my city, which is university-affiliated and caters to faculty and staff, who are well-off and tend to have more flexible schedules than corporate workers. And they officially accept 6 week olds. The waiting list is insane so no one can in that young (unless it’s a sibling) but they do accept children that age. All the other daycares I know of here do too.
Anon
The big national chains like Bright Horizons and KinderCare typically accept 6 week olds.
Anon
Given the OP’s reference to unpaid leave, I’m pretty sure that she means that staff get 6 weeks paid and then 6 weeks unpaid. Not knowing the size of her firm, but assume that is required under FMLA
Anonymous
I mean, I’d rather have this be a top down thing from the government, so to that extent it bothers me, but I would have a hard time getting worked up about it at the individual firm level. The leave for associates is just market forces at work (like bonus competition). I think leave for staff is above market standard, which of course isn’t great but isn’t gong to change without government intervention IMO. Frankly for most biglaw attorneys, it would be completely unworkable to return to full-time work much earlier, whereas taking care of a baby is much easier if you have a 9-5 schedule.
Kim
“just market forces at work” is used to justify a lot of ridiculous practices. Like the glass ceiling.
rosie
I mean “market forces” can mean if you don’t like how I’m treating you, go work somewhere else. No where else wants to hire you? Then suck it up. When there are patterns of treatment that are very pervasive in a certain industry/area/etc., there you go, market forces…
Anonymous
When “market forces” mean that infants may receive less care than needed, that seems more than a bit shortsighted.
rosie
Right…or that women get paid less for same work, or that parents get woefully inadequate leaves, etc. Sometimes the government needs to step in because otherwise many people just DGAF (this is how “market forces” are used to justify sh*t IME, I 100% disagree with it — I mean, I think gov’t should step up on things like parental leave, but I also think private employers should be better people…but “market forces,” right?).
Daisy
I mean, attorneys also get paid more. Maternity leave is part of a compensation/benefits package, and law firms need to offer more competitive compensation to attract attorney hires than they do to attract staff hires. I don’t think it says that maternal health of staff is less important than attorneys’, any more than paying them a fraction of what the attorneys make means they’re a fraction as valuable as people. It’s simply the market forces at work.
Sarabeth
The idea that it’s acceptable for maternity leave to be determined by market forces is the problem, though.
Anon
Unless or until the government passes a law, maternity leave benefits are determined by market forces. That’s why some fields (high paid, highly educated fields that compete for workers) are more likely to offer paid leave, when others (often low skill or low paid fields) don’t. I would be very help for the government to require paid leave just as they require unpaid maternity leave, but until that happens it is a market forces determination.
anonshmanon
+1. The economy ultimately needs to serve the people.
Anonymous
Agree. And it sounds like there’s a good mass of people here on this board who regard it as an issue. So…how do we get it changed? How do the attorneys use their ‘power of market forces at work’ to improve things for staff?
Lana Del Raygun
Unionize, either in one bargaining unit (not sure you could sell that but also not sure how this works in the private sector) or insisting on the same parental leave package for all BUs.
And/or give up on the market, which by its very mature doesn’t give a hoot about anyone who’s not currently producing tradeable value (ie babies), and lobby/agitate for a government requirement.
Anonymous
This. To be perfectly honest, I would assume that if the gov’t came in and mandated 12 or 16 weeks for everyone (gah, if only!!!) that attorneys in bigger firms would still probably get additional time beyond staff. It’s a benefit perk and a way to stand out in the crowd that’s very competitive.
Anon
This. It’s an arms race, just like salaries.
Daisy
Right. We all make way more than minimum wage, don’t we? If 18 weeks maternity leave suddenly becomes the “minimum to be humane,” top law grads are going to expect at least 36.
Anonymous
My firm does this. It’s made it a bit awkward when two women (eg, Admin assistant and an attorney) have had babies around the same time.
Never too many shoes...
My firm tops up lawyers for 17 weeks and nothing for staff, but we are in Canada and so everyone already has access to up to 18 months of government paid leave which is available to all parents.
Anonymous
That’s one of Sheryl Sandburg’s points in Lean In. Always work to get ahead because the more important you are the better you are treated. Nothing special about that in Law.
Anon
Right— but the follow up to her point was that once you get ahead you should pass it down to those below you. The example she gave of maternity parking was great. No one in power had been pregnant before, so no one in power realized this was an issue. When she got pregnant, she didn’t just reserve some special parking place for herself, she created maternity parking for everyone. In OP’s firm, the staff can’t advocate for themselves, and most attorneys would prefer their staff to stay put and do good work for them. The attorneys should advocate for the assistants.
Ellen
I think that there is a difference, b/c attorneys work harder, and staff is necessary for us to do so, so attorneys do need more time to regroup when they have a baby. 6 weeks for staff is still pretty good; our firm has no strict policy b/c we have not had to face a situation like this recently. A number of years ago before I came, Madeline was pregnant and had a baby who is now in college. I do not know how that was handled. Lynn is haveing $ex regularly with Mason, so if she gets pregnant, I will have to craft a policy if I am the manageing attorney. I think I will go with the 6 week alternative, b/c I do not think I could be without her for more time. I will have to face issues like this if I ever find a boyfreind who wants to marry me and I wind up staying working.
Emma
This sucks- I’m at attorney at a private company in the US. All 17000+ employees (EVERYONE- men, women, adopters, secretaries, VPs) at my company gets 2 months fully paid off for bonding + an ad’l 6 months off unpaid with your job protected & an ad’l 6 months off without job protection if you want it. People who give birth obviously get add’l time off for disability. It’s a huge reason why I’ve stayed at my job for 6 yrs.
anon
This is really cute, but I’ll probably have to pass. Does anyone have trouble with ON’s woven tops consistently running too short? I’m not even that tall (5’8″). The styles always suck me in but it’s nothing but disappointment when I try them on! The knits don’t seem to have that issue.
Anon
They have tall sizes – are you trying those?
Anonymous
Yes same. They just aren’t cut long enough.
Anon
I’m not tall but have a long torso, I have to order everything in tall sizes at ON. If tall isn’t offered, I’m not buying it.
anon.
Me too! I’m 5’3″ but have a very very long torso – can’t wear ON unless it’s tall sizes, which fit me normally.
Anonymous
I’m buying a house and realized my insurer (even bundling car, umbrella, valuables, etc.) is likely overpriced. Can y’all share how much you pay for insurance? I know home insurance varies a lot by area and size of house, but $2200 seems like a lot for a 2800 sq ft house. Appreciate any thoughts!
AnonMom
I pay $600 per year for my ~60 year old 1400 sq ft stick built house, rural midwest but next door to the fire station, highest credit rating possible. No pool, no trampoline, no crime to speak of, not a flood prone area, no special riders, minor auto insurance bundled discount (I think something like $50 off per year for bundling).
AnonMom
Forgot: this is replacement cost coverage for the house and all contents, and we do have a gas fireplace.
Anon
We pay $1400 for a 2300 sq foot house in a very safe, LCOL area. Auto, umbrella, etc are separate.
Anonymous
I pay 2700 for my similarly sized house. Maybe I should be looking around as well. No pool, trampoline or woodburning fireplace.
Anonymous
It definitely pays to shop around, and also pay attention to deductibles. We had our homeowner’s with State Farm for many years, but they have moved to a “1% of replacement price as a deductible” model, which means our deductible is $4,300. Not insurmountable for us (we have way more than that in emergency savings) but there’s lots that could happen to the house that wouldn’t cost more than the deductible to fix. My work offers an “extras” program where we get discounted rates at several large insurers – I called three of them and ended up with a better, more comprehensive policy with a $1,000 deductible for $1200/yr. We have excellent credit (score 780+), our house is 30 years old, frame-built. We live in a nicer neighborhood in a city with a high property crime rate. We’re not in a flood zone. No pool, no trampoline; we do have two dogs (not “problem” breeds, although I don’t believe that’s really a thing) and an alarm system on the house. Replacement value on the house and contents is $425k but we don’t have high-end furniture or jewelry; we did add some extra coverage for my husband’s computer equipment. It’s worth taking some time on a slow day at work and calling for quotes, I’m really glad I did.
Anon
Travelers Insurance for home only (not bundled with car or anything else) – $1020 for home, safe area, MCOL, 1700ish sq feet above grade (2300 total); home built in the 90s with some history of water damage, semi-custom kitchens and bathrooms. No pool, no trampoline, next to a fire hydrant, with self-monitored security.
Kim
~$600 for a 1800 sq ft 70year old brick house in super close-in DC suburbs, 3 fire stations w/in 2 miles. I do have USAA which always runs cheaper.
anon a mouse
Ours is about $1200 for 2400 SF in a close-in DC suburb. There is a fire hydrant in front of the house and a fire station 4 blocks away. We have several riders, including jewelry and sump pump failure.
Be sure to compare the coverage of the policy, not just the cost and deductibles. Ours is a little higher because we picked a company that will fully cover the cost of rebuilding of the house with the same materials inside and out (brick exterior, luxury hardwoods and finishes inside), even if the materials cost is higher. Some companies will just give you a check for the value of the house and be done. But if there is a major disaster, building supplies (and labor) costs will soar because so many people will need to rebuild at once, and the payout might not be enough to cover reconstruction.
Kim
This is excellent advice, esp. about the replacement check; I will now go dig into mine as it seems to be on the cheaper side compared to anyone’s, and I’m near DC like you!
Anon
I don’t know how you can compare insurance prices without knowing what liability, structure, and contents limits people buy. It’s like comparing the prices of jewelry – how much did your ring cost? – without specifying what metal and stones are in the ring.
Anonymous
Thanks, everyone. Yes, this quote was actually from USAA, but I’ve heard they are more expensive in my area. I will definitely shop around. Really interesting how moving to a nicer part of town (same zip though) means paying more. Thanks!
The Future of the City is Childless
Has anyone else seen “The Future of the City is Childless” opinion piece in the Atlantic? I’m curious what others think. For my two cents, I don’t disagree with anything he said, but it was a superficial and glossed over many of the reasons my friends in a big city say they are not having kids.
Anon
Superficial and didn’t say anything new. Authors have been bemoaning the loss of children in cities for years.
First Year Anon
Interesting a man wrote this article. I can tell you exactly why women in cities aren’t having children: because we don’t want the majority of the burden of childcare, we also want careers that are usually in cities and/or lives of our own, and men aren’t willing to sacrifice anything, so then couples just don’t have children. It feels like it’s always on women when I squarely think it’s on men to step up. Every friend I have with children has made sacrifices that their husband’s have not when they decided to have children.
Anon
+1
Anonymous
Well said!
Anonymous
Right. 75% of the women under 30 I work with have said they are not going to have kids because they just don’t want the endless struggle and hassles related to getting partners to do their share without acting put-upon. I empathize. I only have one child and that was tough to negotiate; I can’t imagine what more than one would have been like. I will say, I see plenty of SAHMs out there who are having 3+ kids, even in cities (although that probably is more common to the suburbs). I think there will still be enough kids out there in the world, they just won’t have working moms.
Cat
I just read it. That was kind of a word salad. And it pretty much ignores/glosses over the main reason my college educated parent friends leave the city: they can’t afford to buy a 4BR home that’s downtown AND pay for private school. It’s not because dealing with a stroller in a condo building is so awful.
Cat
Why did this go to mod?
anon
Agree. I actually read it twice because I couldn’t really figure out what he was trying to say. Just a mishmash of ideas and he seems confused as to whether he thinks that “childless” cities are a problem because they’re “childless” or whether problematic forces are causing cities to become “childless.” Weak thinking, weak writing.
anon0321
ANYTHING WITH A SLASH GOES TO MOD BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE A WEBSITE, lol.
Cat
ugh thank you! clearly need to train myself on that one.
Anon
I forwarded the article to a friend who, after living in Europe for a while, was flabbergasted that she couldn’t have a house with a back yard in San Francisco and was also very judgmental about how much time her SF friends (even those with children!) spent talking about work. I just chuckled. I guess if you are this naive, the article might shed light on reality in the US.
Z
So…. thoughts on the Cats trailer? Its kind of terrifying looking.
Anon
I’ve never seen the musical. Is it equally weird? I have tickets (as part of a season package) to the touring production and now I kind of don’t want to go.
Ms B
I’ve never seen the musical. Is it equally weird? I have tickets (as part of a season package) to the touring production and now I kind of don’t want to go.
Anonymous
Oh yah it’s real weird
Z
I actually opted out of season tickets to the touring shows in my city this year, partly because of Cats (the only show I want to see that’s coming is Dear Evan Hansen). The lady that sat behind me last season said Cats is the only musical she’s ever walked out of.
Z
OTOH,my SO’s sister LOVES Cats and is its her favorite musical. *shrug*
Veronica Mars
My husband loves it too. He said he had it on VHS as a kid. I’ll have to see what he thinks of the trailer. We have a theatre near us that serves beer/wine, so worst case scenario we can just drink.
Gail the Goldfish
It’s totally bizarre and terrible. I love musicals, but it was on my town’s touring season package this year and the only reason I didn’t walk out is husband wanted to stay. Someone described it as “it’s a musical with no plot,” and they were right. My comment was “how many drugs was andrew lloyd webber on when he wrote this?”
Anon
Hahaha ok thanks for the feedback guys, I will not go. (I bought the season tickets for Hamilton and Come From Away, and the price is very worth it for just those two shows, so I’m fine skipping other shows.)
KS IT Chick
I always enjoy the weirdness of it, but you can’t completely blame Lloyd Webber for the strangeness. My late MIL gave me Old Possum’s Book of Practical Cats, the book of poetry by T.S. Eliot that is the source material, and the musical follows fairly closely to the structure of the book. I think he must have been in a highly altered mental status for an extended period to write it.
Some of the casting in the musical is questionable, but Idris Elba is going to be perfection as Macavity. I was originally hoping that he would be The Rum Tum Tugger, because that is a part that requires rock star levels of charisma, but he’s aged out of the role now.
anon
I’m a fan of T.S. Eliot, but he was a strange and troubled writer.
Mpls
So, yes to equally plotless and meandering. I think part of the weirdness of the trailer is the CGI for the cat fur/tail, though, so don’t let that throw you too much. Stage costumes are going to be different, but the physicality is probably going to be on par. So…the stage show is still going to be kind of weird. Shrug – that’s just theater sometimes.
Lana Del Raygun
So with the huge caveat that I haven’t seen it, my understanding is that Cats has particularly interesting and complicated/difficult dancing, which doesn’t really come through in the movie trailer. So if you’re into dancing you might like the stage musical based on that.
Not a Fun Guy
Totally creepy. Definitely not seeing the movie.
Anonymous
I hate the musical and can’t believe they’re making a movie out of it. I also can’t believe Idris Elba agreed to star in it. WTF, Idris?
Anon
The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt storyline on Cats is my favorite part of the series.
Marie
I was just thinking of that! On point.
Anonymous
And the Cats sequences in Crazy Ex-Girlfriend are among my least favorite parts of the series (I realize the horror was the point, but still!). I’ll be avoiding this trailer.
NOLA
My friends who are musical theatre fans and even fans of the musical thought the trailer was creepy and awful. I am a fan of neither (can’t stand Andrew Lloyd Webber and not a musical theatre fan in general), so I haven’t watched it.
anon
I think it’s one of those things where if you saw it when it was new/newish you don’t get freaked out by it, but if you didn’t, that ship has sailed. I’m a crazy cat lady and no way in hell am I going to go see it. Hard pass. Looks super weird.
The original Scarlett
I think it looks fun, kind of like an acid trip without drugs. I’ll see it.
Sarabeth
My 6 year-old is going to LOVE it. And I’ll sit through it for her sake.
Never too many shoes...
The musical is weird but fine but that trailer…I had to turn it off. It seems totally unwatchable.
Anonymous
I LOVE musicals, stage or movie, and there is absolutely no chance I will see this. Yikes.
AnonATL
Found out yesterday I have a Jones fracture in my left foot, and I’m in a boot for at least a month. I really want to follow the doc’s instructions and wear the boot but stay somewhat active. Anyone had success with some sort of activity with a foot/leg injury? Were you able to comfortably use an exercise bike as an example? I know my usual walking/running is out of the question. Pretty much any lower body exercise seems unlikely.
Anon
I had a severe sprain in my ankle that limited me for months. There’s lots of upper body and core workouts you can do with machines or sitting on a bench. You can also do leg lifts, donkey kicks, etc. to get some lower body exercises in. Depending on the strain you put on your foot, I don’t see why you couldn’t use a number of the leg machines too. Eventually I was able to do the bike for cardio, but only at a low resistance. It definitely sucks and I love hiking/running/walks but you will eventually have a full recovery and re-injury or exacerbating your injury isn’t worth it.
Anonymous
I found a seated weight routine online. I was also able to do crunches by draping my legs over a chair seat, and also do more weights. Finally, I had a shoulder rehab routine and some of those exercises were possible as they involved lying on my stomach (I draped the foot over the side of the bed).
anon
There’s a youtube channel called Hurt Foot Workout from Caroline Jordan – I found those exercises useful. Like me she had a hurt foot for a very long time so she had to find some lower body strengthening exercises.
Anonymous
Swimming?
Anonymous
The kicking will likely aggravate things too much. I had a severe ankle sprain about 18 months ago and I thought I would be ok to swim much sooner than I really should have attempted.
Coach Laura
Yes, but you can put floats on your ankles and swim with only your arms. My daughter did this to keep in shape when she factured her femur (thigh bone – so scary).
Coach Laura
Meant to add that many pools have feet floats available. And that this requires that you be a decent swimmer.
Flats Only
Could the elliptical work for you? I dealt with a foot issue that meant I couldn’t walk or use a treadmill for exercise, but discovered I could use the elliptical without aggravating the foot. If you have an office gym you could try it out for a minute just to see what it feels like – that’s what I did.
Anon
Been there with the Jones fracture twice! The first time I had access to a swimming pool and after a few weeks in the boot I took up aqua-jogging and some of the water aerobics classes. I also googled some exercise routines with injured foot and found enough options to keep me from going totally crazy with no fitness outlet. I couldn’t do much walking, treadmill, elliptical, or cycling for nearly a month so the aqua activity was a nice option.
KTA
Isn’t this really a question for your doctor? If you’re in a boot, is it all the time, 24/7? If so, then no, you can’t do any workouts that involve your legs (or standing for long periods, or balance). Last year when I had a stress fracture, it was 4 weeks booted all the time, no exercise. Then 2 weeks in the boot, light exercise up to me but with boot ON (so heavy modifications). Then, it was 6 weeks of no boot, but low impact only. So cycling ok, elliptical was ok at low intensity, and weight lifting was ok. No running. I’m not familiar with this type of fracture but your doctor should have told you exactly what activities you can do and when.
AnonATL
Thanks all. The foot has been bothering me on and off for about 3 months now, and I finally went to the doctor and found out it was in fact a fracture. During the time I was unaware it was broken, I exercised totally normally: multi-mile hikes, runs, burpees with little to no pain. The doctor said no major walking, of course no running,but really left it at that. I am less worried about re-injuring myself and more searching for ideas other than upper body work.
Seems like this will be the summer that my upper body is stronger than my lower body and my cardio will be sad!
Pale Girl Snorkeling
I’ve had this break. Swimming is the best for a full body work out and it shouldn’t bother the foot too much because of where the break is. Just be careful not to push off the wall off the pool with it. Elliptical could work with the boot if you can find a shoe that has a matching height. My doctor said I could ride my bike as much as I felt comfy doing. I did some rides, but it was kind of awkward. Really swimming was the best as it was the only time I felt like I was moving around normally. You have to be most careful after the boot comes off, my doctor said no impact exercise AT ALL for 3-6 months. No jumping, running, or even walking long distances without supportive shoes. Apparently the Jones fracture has a high rate of breaking again for several months
Anonymous
It’s not a bad thing to focus on core and strength! Think of this as the summer of the killer abs and take the time you need for this to heal.
Dress me please
I don’t golf, likely won’t golf again, but need an outfit to wear to a golf outing with colleagues next month. They all golf regularly and I do not want to stand out in a bad way. I am looking at the Athleta Pacifica Contour Tee and the Trekkie Bermuda 2.0 shorts. Is that an appropriate golf outfit?
Anon
That will be fine.
Dress me please
Thanks! I know I am overthinking it…
...
Yes, but maybe add a collared shirt. The shorts are perfect. I go for a collared shirt because all the men are wearing them and some clubs have rules about it. I like nike golf and RLX golf (try tj maxx for nice but cheaper golf shirts).
Anonymous
This. The skort looks fine (I often wear a Lululemon skort for golfing), but many clubs require collared shirts. Even if this one doesn’t, you may find you fit in better wearing one. Academy and D*ck’s often have Nike Golf or Slazenger ones on super clearance.
Anonymous
I had the same situation and I went to Marshall’s and was able to find a golf shirt and skort that worked. They had a lot to choose from and much cheaper than Athleta.
Golf clothes
Don’t buy anything at normal retail price. I like golf, golf regularly, and buy a ton of great golf outfits at TJ Maxx.
Dress me please
Thanks! They are both part of the Athleta sale, but since a collar sounds like the way to go maybe I will check the discount stores before I spring for Athleta.
Inspired By Hermione
I got a golf skort at target (Champion brand, women’s woven skort) last year because I wanted a skirt I could walk the dog in without worrying about wind blowing up the skirt when I’m walking on our local beach. I love it and end up wearing it on the weekends for errands or whatever, too.
So maybe get a skirt/skort you could see yourself wearing again so it’s not a total loss?
Dress me please
I would definitely wear both of these again, but it sounds like the shirt might need a collar so I will keep looking.
Skorts are not now and never will be my thing, so I will leave those for someone else to enjoy.
anon
Is there anyone who went from being basically a non-athletic couch potato to enjoying going to the gym or other physical activity? Or if this is my background am I just going to have to rely on sheer willpower and force myself through it every day? I’m 35, petite, thin, and in terrible shape– weak core, get winded going up stairs, etc. I’ve basically been skating through on genetics but I’m aware that the clock is ticking and it’s not like its going to get easier to get in shape going forward. Any advice or suggestions? Or just the reality check that it’s going to be miserable, but I have to force my way through it?
PolyD
Find something you like to do, first. Check out classes of all sorts, or maybe online exercise demos. Know that you will be tired and sore, but take that as feeling your body working and getting stronger. Try to exercise regularly and pretty soon it will feel good.
I skated by on genetics for quite a while, too, but now I get real happiness and relaxation from going to my circuit training class (weights, cardio machines, lunges, squats) and my ballet class.
NOLA
I completely agree with finding something you like to do. For a long time, for me, that was having equipment at home, or doing a workout at home. After a while, I felt like it was easier to let the gym maintain the equipment and I go after work. But finding what you like (classes, machines, being outdoors vs indoors, meditative vs. cardio vs strengthening) is key to actually enjoying it.
Sarabeth
Yes, this. And if you’re trying to change habits, I think it’s worth it to pay lots of money for classes that you will enjoy, or a trainer, or membership in a fancy gym – whatever makes it a nicer experience for you. For me, that would be a package of dance classes, but it’s probably something entirely different for you. Once you get into the groove, you can always scale back down and do more workouts at home/switch to the cheaper gym/whatever. But splurge on whatever makes it fun while you get started.
PolyD
Another thing that’s nice about classes, if you keep it up, is you get what I saw referred to as a “third space.” Not work, not your usual friends, but another place where you hang out and start to be familiar to people.
I mean, I don’t know that I’ll ever go out to the movies or whatever with people in my gym class or my ballet class, but it’s really nice seeing them a few times a week. Just makes you feel more visible in the world, I guess.
Sarabeth
Totally. I think I appreciate it as an antidote to having the rest of my life taken over by the internet. Don’t get me wrong, I love not having to leave my couch to shop for clothes/groceries/whatever. But it does mean that it’s a bit too easy to go for days without talking to anyone who’s not a coworker or part of my immediate family. It’s good for the soul to actually see other people in person.
anonshmanon
Thiiiis! A workout you actually do is a million times better than a dreaded workout you skip. Everyone is different here.
I felt like a weirdo in that thread a while ago where everyone professed their love for swimming. It’s not for me! I enjoy running, but only if it’s a half hour or less. I love Zumba and pilates. I’ve never really done a team sport
Tracking my progress is a big motivator for me, as well. If you can buy an unlimited class pass for a few months and find a few things you enjoy, that investment will pay off in the long term.
PolyD
I don’t like swimming OR running!
I do a class that I think is a copy of Orange Theory – weights, squats, lunges,, core exercises, bursts of cardio – and ballet.
Anon
You don’t have to become a bodybuilder. Just find some activity that you enjoy that means you’re up and moving – walking, swimming, dancing, anything. Could you go for evening walks? When it’s not 110* like it is today, my husband and I love taking walks before or after dinner to shake off the day. Or if I have a few minutes at work, I’ll go for a stroll outside (I work in a downtown where there are always people on foot).
Anonymous
Agreed. This time last year I did basically no physical activity. Now I take 5 or 6 dance classes a week. Turns out when I like it, I have lots of time
NOLA
I don’t have a lot of advice for going from coach potato to enjoying the gym, mainly because I have been working out for years and I feel sooooo much better when I do it that it motivates me to keep going. I sleep better and feel much saner when I have that break and do physical activity. I will say, though, that getting winded vs weak core is pretty different exercise. I do a lot of cardio and some weights, so I’m in good cardio shape and have managed to keep my knees feeling good. BUT, last week when we were supposed to have a hurricane and my gym was closed, I went with a friend to her trainer. They do no cardio – it’s all light weights and using body weight for toning and strengthening. I enjoyed it but didn’t break a sweat. On the other hand, I had some really sore muscles the next day.
anne-on
I agree that trying different classes helps, but you may want to stick to classes that are more focused on coaching/basics at first? I’m suuuuper clumsy and uncoordinated, so zumba/step aerobics (yes, I’m old)/dance classes just stress me out. I do like pilates/yoga/body pump type classes.
At this point, I am really enjoying my OrangeTheory membership – they tell you exactly what to do, for how long, and you get to see so much information (which appeals to the nerd in me). I also used to hate lifting weights and won’t do it on my own so those classes are a great mix of cardio/core/weights to ensure I’m not ONLY doing cardio. The amount of older women at my pilates studio who had martini muscles (only strong enough to lift a martini glass) and struggled with 1-2lb weights for any amount of reps really scared me straight on the importance of some weight lifting.
Anon
I’m younger than you, but I went from slim by non-active to VERY VERY fit and active. It’s been a journey, and I’m at a place I Really enjoy now. In short:
– first I did “fun” classes offered by my low key gym. Things like Zumba, Body Pump.
– then I incorporated in some treadmill running and weight machines, as the class schedule was hard to fit in.
– I joined a floor hockey team (we were really bad)
– I started doing aerial silks (so so hard)
– I learned to ski and took classes every week
– My fitness was getting better, and I was becoming more knowledgeable, so I switched to doing free weights following a specific program. (Strong Curves)
– I dropped treadmill running and floor hockey
– I really focused on aerial silks
– I try to ski reasonably often in winter
– I still do free weights on the Strong Curves program.
Which is all to say – start small, try a bunch of stuff, get a routine that works for you.
Gail the Goldfish
I really want to try aerial silks, but I’m pretty confident I’d just manage to injure myself. (also fairly expensive where I live). How hard is it to go from totally uncoordinated beginner to mildly competent?
Anon
For context, I’m around 30 with no meaningful dance/gymnastic background. When I started I was “active” and slim but nothing like now. I go to a pretty intense place for silks – a circus school in a major city that trains many pros (NOT ME!) – which probably affects my experience and perspective. Everyone. Is. So. Good. It’s crazy inspiring. So with that preamble:
Silks is going to be a struggle for most everyone who starts without significant transferable experience re: upper body and core strength. (Think – serious rock climber, athletic pole dancer, gymnast.) Climbing the silk is like doing pull ups over and over and over and over. Inverting (turning upside down) is like doing super intense hanging leg raises over and over and over. And none of that even mentions grip strength/endurance, which becomes the limiting factor for many amateur aerialists.
Add to that the “need” to have all your splits, plus good shoulder flexibility, and silks is hella hella hard.
“Coordination” is not the limiting factor until you become very good and start doing tricks that rely on timing and momentum. For instance, I am working on a trick right now where I should have enough strength and flexibility to execute it, but I’m struggling to get the timing right for letting go/regrabbing the silks. This is the exception, not the rule.
The risk of serious injury from silks is pretty low, because you usually are doing things in a very controlled manner. The worst I’ve gotten is very sore muscles, bruises, and silk burns (friction burns.) That said, an adult in my intermediate class broke her wrist in front of my eyes last week after she pushed her endurance too far, lost her grip, and fell.
BUT, try it. Because it’s so hard, it’s a really good mental escape, and nothing like sitting at a computer all day.
780
By human nature, I’m a couch potato with no hand-eye coordination. I can’t say that I’ve every been dying to workout, and I’m never going to be one of those people who doesn’t feel like themselves if I skip a week of exercise. But I think there are a number of trick that help me actually workout, and 95% of the time, I’m happy I did the workout after it is done.
First is finding a number of activities you enjoy – for me, at the moment, that is boxing and barre classes, hiking, and group swim workouts. So, for example, I love swimming, but if I go to the pool by myself, I’m never going to stay longer than 15 minutes; if I go to a group swim program with someone telling me what to do, I will happily swim for the hour.
Second is finding a way to fit it in to your life at a time when you don’t actually have to make the choice daily. I know that if I go home after work, I’m never going to leave to go to the gym. Instead, I have standing plans to go to a group exercise class 2 days a week with friends and go straight from work. Or I pick an activity that is before work, so I don’t have time to talk myself out of it in the morning.
Third, I highly recommend trying different things and starting small. Don’t push yourself too hard in the beginning. If you do, you are likely to get injured or hate it even more. And if you try something that isn’t working for you, mix it up. You are never going to keep up with something you hate, so find the exercise that you enjoy doing.
Susan
I often think if I had it to do allll over again, I’d be a jr high PE teacher. I am not athletic at all (not coordinated, can’t catch a ball to save my life, hate to run, slow, etc.) and dreaded gym class/recess (always picked last, etc.) It wasn’t until my 20s that I realized I actually like being active and working out. So since then (late 40s now), I’ve been an off/on exerciser … I know what I like to do, I’ve got really good form and can keep myself safe (thanks to lots of yoga/pilates) and in the last few months, I’ve joined Orangetheory Fitness and have unlocked some kind of inner beast that I didn’t know existed.
Find something you love to do! For me, the thing that unlocked it all was kickboxing (this was the early 90s). I loved hitting the pads and wanting to be better at that was the path in to more cardio, etc. so that I could be a better boxer. You might like some kind of interval/circuit training … not sure what kind of options you have but look for something like a Tabata class. You do something for 20 seconds, take a 10 sec break and repeat 8 times. It’s a fantastic workout but because the intervals are so short, it isn’t as much of a mental struggle, if you know what I mean.
Sign up for ClassPass and just try everything! Find something that’s fun, even if you think it’s not a super hard/great workout at first … that’s okay! Just get started … you’ll step it up when you’re ready. There will be some suck, and you’ll have to power your way through it, but that should be vastly outweighed by the fun/fulfillment/kick ass ness of it all. If it isn’t, there’s too much suck and you should re-adjust.
Enjoy!!!
Anonymous
So not the same situation, because I was super active in high school and college, but then stopped completely when I started working in law. I recently picked up working out again and the things that have made the biggest difference to me were finding classes I liked (hot yoga in particular) and a place that I liked to take them (I am the member of a big fancy gym and it is expensive, but I love it so much). My husband was in a similar boat when we joined the gym and he got a personal trainer, which has worked really well for him. I think that’s all personality based though – I prefer group classes.
Anon
Start trying out group classes, find one you enjoy, and stick with it, go religiously so that you can get in the habit of going regularly. My favorites are Barre class, some form of dance cardio like Zumba or line dance class (the YMCA often has this shockingly fun class), pilates, a group weight training class like BodyPump that a lot of franchise gyms have. I haven’t tried them but even weirder classes that some private studios have like Pound, Bounce trampoline classes, and pole dancing are excellent workouts and tons of fun. Over time your fitness will improve and you can branch out into other forms of independent work outs, particularly weight training.
If you have the funds for it, working out with a personal trainer really helped me stay accountable, get into the habit and increase my stamina to be able to work out alone.
Irish Midori
Echoing all the comments that a class may be a good place to start. Your local Y probably has them included, and I find my Y to be super-inclusive and not intimidating, and has a wide range of classes. I found yoga to be a good way to wade in–it didn’t feel so much like work, but I could tell after just a few weeks that I felt better.
Another thing that has worked for me is audible or good music that I WANT to listen to. Lately I’ve gotten engrossed in a few really good books on audible, and so I will go on brisk walks in the evening with my headphones just to be able to hear more of it. Sometimes I take a couple extra loops around the block to just to get to the next part–like a driveway moment, but with more calorie burning.
Kim
A second consideration is the time of day that works for you. I can work out every day, in any weather, before dawn, but my post-work workouts turn into something like a one mile walk or ten half-done situps. I am just too tired. If you’re not a morning person anyway, dragging yourself out of bed to do something that isn’t always fun until partway through is HARD! If you hate gyms, try a class or just walk. No need to kill yourself; walking is perfectly acceptable.
Sarabeth
Ha, this is me as well. I do “morning” workouts, but they happen at 8:30, after I’ve had breakfast and coffee and dropped my kids at daycare.
Mpls
I have an after-work routine (fitness center on campus) so that I avoid rush hour and don’t have to sit in traffic.
Anonymous
Yes! Very weak and unfit, DH joined a gym and dragged me with. I expected to hate it and I did the first few times. I worked with a personal trainer 4-5 times. I changed trainers after the first 2 sessions to a woman I clicked with better (an extremely strong body builder with tattoos and piercings who was pretty much my opposite and yet is me in another life). I did treadmill and stairclimber for cardio but weightlifting became my favorite thing! I really came to love the feeling of being able to lift and build muscles! Try a lot of things like other posters said, to find what you love. It’s out there!
Anonymous
Yes, but it did not happen overnight. So, in the interim, willpower is what it takes. I became a runner after doing zero physical activity. I did the couch to 5k at a slow pace (both running and repeating the weeks to make it a longer program) and signed up for a race. Once I could run the whole 30 minutes/5K regularly, I could feel the major benefits to my physical and emotional well-being and had the “runner’s high” when I finished. But it took even longer (a year maybe) before I really seriously craved exercise. The sense of accomplishment was really motivating for me in the interim.
Anon
My advice is to find an activity you like. I have tried so many times to be someone who runs or does the elliptical or enjoys group cycling/barre classes and I just can’t stick with it because at the end of the day I hate all those things. However I generally enjoy hiking and walking. When I finally embraced that, and started going to the gym just to walk on the treadmill at an incline, it became easy to do it several times a week and stick with it. Is it as good as running or barre? No. But it gets my heartrate up, burns calories and I do it WAY more consistently, so overall it’s better for my health.
Ribena
I have. Going to the gym has become part of my standard weekday morning and I find that and my weekend long runs really soothing for my mental health.
Anonymous
I went from injured potato to regular slow swimmer. I had to be super patient with myself, but I have much aerobic capacity than I did before, without reinjury.
Daisy
Thoughts on covering feet for ridiculously cold offices? Most flats look weird with socks, and most boots have heels, and I want to stick with flats… anyone have any loafters/flat boots/lace ups that look good with slacks and socks that they’d recommend?
BabyAssociate
Honestly, I wear slippers when I’m actually in my office.
Daisy
Gasp. This is an amazing idea. I have a pair of slippers that make my feet HOT, and I haven’t been wearing them at home all summer for that reason. I will bring them to the office on Monday. Such a simple solution, but I think this may be a game-changer. Thank you!
BabyAssociate
It never even crossed my mind, but then I saw a partner wearing slippers in her office and went out and bought my own immediately.
Anonymous
Had this problem for years! I used to wear shoes with a higher vamp like loafers but it wouldn’t make a dent in my comfort. Finally in 2018 I just bought a secret space heater that I put away in a drawer at the end of the day. Going on 1.5 years, has immensely improved my comfort and no issues with “breaking the rules”.
Cat
I wear sheer knee high socks (they look like pantyhose) for this. Inexpensive to pick up at most drugstores.
Anon
+1 except I wear the support ones. I wear them when flying too? In fact this is primarily why I buy them, but I find they keep my ankles and feet really warm so I wear them for cold feet occasions too.
Anon
These are the ones I wear, and compression was the word I couldn’t come up with.
http://www.compressionsale.com/futuro-energizing-ultra-sheer-mild-knee-highs-8-15-mmhg.html
Anonymous
I just wear hosiery–knee high or full length year round in the office. Never have a cold feet problem. I remind myself that I am dressing for an office where I will be for 8+ hours at 70 degrees–not the 90+ heat outside.
PolyD
Flat booties exist. Get ones that you can wear the no-show socks with if you wear ankle pants. If you wear pants that are more trouser style, you could wear regular socks because the bottom of the pants should touch the shoe.
I don’t know how anyone finds any specific shoe or clothing item on Amazon, but I usually search 6pm because you can filter by size and heel height, leather or non-leather, and price, etc., etc. Then I look to see if Amazon has the item I want for the free shipping and returns.
Anon
Looks down at my Birks & wool socks. Thanks my lucky stars that I work where this is totally acceptable.
AlexisFaye
I have a space heater under my desk.
Horse Crazy
Me too. Changed my life.
Marie
Seconded. I use my space heater year round.
Anonymous
I have started to wear/keep in tote bag the thin socks that are designed to go with flats. It’s not a lot of material, and you need to shop around for ones that work with the various shapes of your shoes, but I have found that even just this small amount of material helps tremendously with keeping my feet warm.
Anon
I wear oxfords or loafers year-round and flat boots/booties when it’s cold. It solves the cold feet problem AND the no-sock-foot-sweat problem.
Envious
For the past decade, I have worked with a woman that seems to have it easier than most. She’s good at what she does and is a nice person – the difference between us is that her dad was a prominent lawyer and is now in politic: she acknowledges that he has helped her career. My parents were both teachers and while they have helped me a LOT to get where I am now, it is not the same as having a rich/well-known parent.
We started at around the same time but she got promoted quickly. She get the best projects. She is being offered to be a speaker at events, is sitting on different boards and is part of different high profile committees. Everybody seems to know who she is (in our area).
I am happy for her but I cannot help to be envious: I don’t have 10% of the opportunities she had/has. I have worked hard to get where I am professionally and I am well-liked at my company. Plus, I have a good personal life (loving husband + two adorable healthy kids). My life is good, don’t get me wrong. Still, even with extra hard work, I cannot compete with someone like that. I know I should not compare my professional life to hers but I sometimes do. I wish I could be her for a few of days just to experience what it’s like.
Anonymous
It’s time to move on emotionally from this. You love your life. That is all you need.
Daisy
Yeah, even with lots of hard work you’ll never get to where she is, and even with a ton of voice lessons, I’ll never be as good a singer as Beyonce. Some people are born with big advantages. Everyone on this board was born with big advantages over plenty of (most?) others. It’s a part of life. It’s okay to acknowledge that it sucks sometimes, but it doesn’t do to dwell.
Envious
Thank you for those comments… you are right. I work at a big company and don’t usually interact a lot with her so I don’t really think about this honestly. However,I just spent the past few months working closely with her on a project (that just ended) and during that time I was confronted with all those differences on a weekly basis so it was sometimes annoying. I had to vent.
anon
When I start thinking like this I remind myself how lucky I am– I am naturally gifted in so many ways that make life easier- I am healthy, I am intelligent, I do not have any mental illnesses that have significantly impeded my ability to succeed (think untreated schizophrenia or bipolar, etc, etc). My mind and body function well enough to allow me to work long hours at a challenging but lucrative job, I have a great work ethic, I have a supportive family, I was raised in a way that set me up for success, I have a safety net. You also have a loving husband and great kids. If I’m fussing about the struggle and stress of every day lawyer life, passing the homeless people sleeping on the church doorstep on my way to work usually straightens that right out for me. This is not to diminish your feelings or imply that your emotions/struggles are not valid. Of course they are. Maybe you can find comfort in the fact that the advantages she has that you do not pale in comparison to the advantages you are lucky enough to have in the grand scheme of things.
anon a mouse
Yes – you have it better than most, and for all you know someone is admiring you and your work ethic.
Try thinking about it a little bit differently — she has vastly more privilege than you, yet you are essentially peers at the company? Yes, she got promoted and gets better projects, but you are clearly punching above your background. It’s a compliment to you.
Anon
This is such a great way to look at it!
Anon
I am like your friend in some ways, minus the parents who helped out.
If it matters to you to be on committees and to get speaking assignments, it’s about more than hard work.
Anonymous
This is just how things are. “To those who have, more will be given.” I often feel this way about education. The best schools seem to be many, many times better than the worst schools, and once the rewards of good education start to pile up, it can be hard to catch up or compete. We’re all running our own race though.
Anonymous
I went to law school with a guy who was good but not setting the world on fire. He is a US Attorney now. Like THE US Attorney now, not some AUSA somewhere. And another similar guy I used to work with is not a senator. Not like state senate, but one of 2 senators from his state who gets sent to DC.
I was just born to Unimportant People.
OTOH, I went to grade school with some kids who had parents divorce in high school and struggled just to put themselves through college, so in retrospect, I am the mediocre person born to the right parents.
But whatever, we all end up the same amount of dead in the end.
Anon
This is so hard, and I’ve definitely dealt with these feelings at times. Is she someone who you could become more friendly with, or work with more often? Attend events with? Assuming she isn’t terrible, she may be someone who would be willing to mentor you and/or connect you to others in her circle. Maybe you could co-present with her. I would try to re-channel feelings of envy into building a stronger relationship with this woman.
Law mama
I totally get that feeling. One strategy is to try to be around this person less, if that’s possible – thee are some people that are just going to be triggers for you, even as much as you try to be zen, and it’s helpful to avoid them. Another thing to do is consider whether you actually want what that person has or just want to feel more seen. If the former , ask her how to get on those committees, if she can pass on speaking opportunities she isn’t available for, etc. If the latter, that’s takes personal work and reflection to generate your own positivity and let go of seeking external recognition – and that is hard work that never really ends but makes a huge difference.
Anon for this
Just want to point out that, although she’s undoubtedly benefiting from her privilege, the grass may not always be greener. Being related to a politician can be difficult. My fil is a very well known politician and it’s tough to have to deal with the nonsense that happens during campaigns. You also get other types of unwanted attention that has nothing to do with your own merits. It continues to amaze me to see people fawn over my husband when they hear his last (unique) name – it’s so fake. I’m sure this woman is getting a net positive, but remember we all have negatives to deal with.
Anon
Totally get the feeling but as a counterpoint, it’s refreshing to hear that for once a woman is getting the benefit of these types of privilege. In my experience it’s almost always the white dude.
Envious
Thank you for all your comments. yes, I realized that I have made a (small) name for myself and she and I are peers. I have a good relationship with this colleague and she is very gracious: she has introduced me to a few key people and is sometimes a go-to person for me. At the same time, people will prefer to have her sit on those prestigious boards/committees than a no-name like myself. There is prestige to have her be part of those groups, I understand completely.
Over the years, I have met males ( colleagues and other) that come from money, that take everything for granted and a lot of them think they are amazing when they are just average. I know some of them are jealous of the attention she is geting: they are sometimes commenting about the unfairness of the situation!!!! I will sometimes speak up and compare her situation to oher white dudes that come from a similar background.
I know the grass is not always greener. She has told me that she sometimes has this pressure to perform… Like I said in my initial post : I sometimes wish I could be her for a few of days just to experience what it’s like.
Marie
When I feel somewhat envious of others, I ask myself whether I would trade my ENTIRE life for their ENTIRE life. The answer is never yes. Often, it’s only one aspect of someone’s life that we covet (ie career opportunities), but when looking at their life as a whole, we realize we don’t want what they have because it would mean giving up some great things that we already have (ie amazing spouse, family, better work/life balance, better physical or mental health, etc) and the trade wouldn’t be worth it. See if that reframing helps you.
ElisaR
my boss used to say “comparison is the opposite of contentment” all the time. It’s weird wording, but you’ll never be content if you are comparing yourself to other people.
Envious
you are right. Most of the time I try not to compare myself to others since there is no point in doing so. However, I just spent a lot of time the past weeks working with her and the differences between us were just too big to ignore. My life is good : I have a good career, a loving husband and 2 adorable healthy girls. I am also exhausted and looking forward to my vacation.
Anonymous
Does anyone else have days or weeks where they’re just in a funk and can’t focus on work? I’m in one currently, feels like burnout/mental exhaustion, but there’s no real explanation for it. I just got back from a vacation, I’m working pretty normal hours (although I did have a crazy month of June). This happens to me a several times a year and always bites me in the ass bc I have to bill extra down the road to meet my targets. Help?
Anonymous
Yes, definitely. For me, it happens when I am bored. I have plenty to do, but none of it truly challenges me (I am working on shifting into a new position as a result).
I just force myself to do it, but I can’t say it’s my best work product.
Irish Midori
Are you me? As soon as I quit playing here on the internet, I’m going to make a list, pick three items that HAVE to be done today, and set a timer for 30 minutes to buckle down on one of them. I may have to think of a way to bribe myself afterward. It may involve a pedicure.
Anon
Strangely enough, I’m planning to bribe myself with a pedicure as well for getting through this nightmare week!
...
omg are you me? #help
anon
Same. I am so fatigued mentally and can’t get it together, even though my to-do list is overflowing.
anon a mouse
Same. I think the brutal heat is also sucking my will to do anything.
Anon
It’s honestly been months for me, although I feel like I’m finally getting back in the groove this week.
Anon
Did you do anything to help get yourself back on track?
Anon
No. Someone basically demanded I finish something I had been procrastinating because I wasn’t sure how to do it well, so I basically just forced myself to do an ok job on it and hand it off. And then once I had accomplished this thing, it was easier to go onto the next thing. It was just this sort of mental hump I had to get over.
Biggest Balls in the Room
Is there a consensus on wrap dresses for court? I routinely wear wrap dresses for office days and depositions, but I’ve been wondering about using them as court attire. I wouldn’t for trial or hearings most likely, but I’m in the SEUS and it would be a cooler option that a suit for things like status conferences, docket calls during the summer months.
Anonymous
Do men not wear suits in your jurisdiction?
Anon
I’m in the SEUS and have seen women wearing wrap dresses for things like status conferences and docket calls. In my city, in state court, men often just wear what they were wearing to the office or at most put on their office blazer for these things. (In federal court, everyone wears suits.) I don’t think you could do it for a motion day or anything else though.
Mrs. Jones
+1
Anonymous
I’m in Chicago and wouldn’t bat an eye at a wrap dress in state court. I know some attorneys feel that if men have to wear suits 100% of the time, so should women, but I don’t.
Anonymous
Does anyone wear a blazer over a wrap dress?
I am trying not to hate my DVF ones so much and feel like for all of the $ they cost, I should try harder to figure out a way to make them work.
On me: too much bust fabric. I’m a pear, so the bottom is OK. I wear a full cami-type white slip underneath (base color of each wrap is white with one other color on the print).
Ribena
I do. My standard ‘extra smart outfit’ is a dark green crepe wrap dress with a black blazer. I get lots of compliments and it doesn’t hurt that the green is the same as our firm’s branding.
Anonymous
I have exactly once and it wasn’t intentional and I didn’t love it bc my “office blazer” looked awkward with it. That said, I often wear sheath dresses – including more casual ponte knit sheath dresses – with blazers over them to court. The cut is just nicer. But the look is similar, so YMMV.
Suburban
In my state court practice, this is somewhat common. However,it is not unheard of for a judge to take issue with a (usually female) lawyer’s attire. I always wear a jacket if not a full suit to court for that reason. I feel differently for arbitration hearings outside of the courthouse. I will forgo a jacket and wear a wrap dress for those unless someone’s client is appearing.
Anonymous
Not federal court. In my state court, it would be ok with a jacket over it.
Anonymous
Not trying to restart the debate from a couple weeks ago (really), but the NYT published a piece about expensive bachelorette parties this week: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/16/fashion/weddings/go-broke-or-go-home-bachelorette-parties.html
Some of the comments are amazing.
Anon
Yup, this got posted here too.
Anon
Where are the comments?
Anon
Anyone have a backyard composter they recommend?
Anon
I really like my Earth Machine (80 gal, I think) composter. Several years ago, my county either gave them away or offered them at a reduced rate. I picked mine up from someone who thought they’d use it and never did. I keep it fed with food scraps & yard clippings, and there’s a really healthy ecosystem going on in there (also, just a nice, earthy, humid smell). I stick a shovel in and turn it every time I add scraps/clippings (ie, every few days to a week).
Before I had this, I just kept a pile covered with a tarp. That worked fine, though occasionally a possum or something would dig for snacks.
Anon
The Good Ideas Tumbler (on A*azon) works great for me. It’s sealed so it works in my close-in suburban backyard, and doesn’t really smell when it’s shut (I mean, if you get close it does a bit, but in a corner of my small yard, it’s fine). 4 years old and still chugging along. It also collects compost tea in the base, which I like.
Anon
Mine is a square I made out of post and wire – super simple and I unlatch a side to have better access to turn it with a pitchfork. If your looking for a container, get one that turns /rotates.
anonshmanon
Just make sure to keep an eye on your compost in summer. They can overheat, but as long as it has sufficient moisture it’s not hazardous.
Anonymous
What would you do for a good friend who just had to put her elderly cat to sleep? I invited her to hang at my place so she wouldn’t have to be in her empty apartment but am wondering what else people have done (or appreciated, if you were on the other end of it).
Anonymous
Flowers.
Anonymous
I think one of the harder parts of losing a pet is you want to talk about your loss but don’t want people to trivialise it as ‘just a pet’. So let her know you are happy to talk about it or listen if she needs it, not just now but the next few weeks. You are a good friend to think of her.
Anonymous
I just went through this a couple weeks ago with my beloved elderly cat – inviting your friend out so she doesn’t have to be alone at home is really kind. Every little noise I heard reminded (reminds) me he isn’t there anymore.
Anon
I make donations to a rescue group or animal shelter when a friend loses a pet, and friends have done the same for me. You can usually make the donation in honor of the pet. In my area, the receiving group always sends a nice sympathy card to the pet parent.
thehungryaccountant
My mom recently put her dog down. I sent a sympathy card with a picture of the two of them tucked inside- a couple of dollars and a few minutes putting it together meant the world in a difficult time.
I think your friend will be greatful for any gesture of kindness and understanding, I wouldn’t stress too much about the specifics.
ALC
I sent my aunt a potted orchid after her cat passed away and she really liked it — something low-key to take care of and be happy when it blooms might be nice.
AttiredAttorney
Any suggestions for hotels in the Orlando area for two adults finally getting to the Wizarding World of Harry Potter for a day? Would love to have easy access to either the park or the airport (or both!) around/under $250/night?
Anonymous
Royal Pacific. Includes their equivalent of fast pass, which you will want. Lines are insane at HP without it
Anon
+1 – kind of. When I went years ago in 2013, it was for 3 days and the unlimited express lane or whatever it was called was so worth it – we basically waited in no lines unless we wanted the front seat anywhere, and we went on our faves over and over again. I went last summer for one day and since it was after school started back up, the lines were never super long and we just had time to on one ride each so it wouldn’t have been worth the money. The hotel is very nice, and since it was so close, we would go back in the afternoon to cool down a bit at the pool, then go back to the park once it wasn’t so hot out and some of the families had left and stayed until late.
Another benefit of the on-site hotel (outside of the ease of walking to and from the park instead of driving and parking) is that you got early access, so we were able to go to HP world before it got super crowded.
Anon
+1 Ditto. I went with a few girlfriends and found the Royal Pacific to be kid-friendly, but not kid-overrun. We had a fantastic long weekend at HP world and the Royal Pacific.
Anon
No advice but jealous! Literally counting down until my kid is old enough for this (husband refuses to go).
Anonymous
Trade in husband.
Horse Crazy
+1 million! My SO had never seen/read HP before we dated – I made him watch all the movies. When we sat down to watch the first one, he said “ok, I’ll watch this one but I probably want to wait a while before we watch the next one, because I know I won’t like them.” After the first one was over, he said, “so maybe we can watch #2 tomorrow night?” HA.
Inspired By Hermione
I’m going in February and I can’t wait. Going with my aunt and mom. My mom texted me recently “Can you figure out this pass thing? Because I’ll die if I can’t go on the Hagrid ride.”
Also, see my username. HP4lyfe
Anon
Honestly, one of those guidebooks on Universal is so worth it – it had a lot of useful info on the best way to approach the park, best seats on ride, which areas had the best food, etc. I think it cost about $15 or less and I read it on the plane.
Abby
Quick note on Harry Potter world – I went last summer with my girlfriend and we went to the park around 8:30 am every day. Even though it officially opens at 9, they let us in early every day and we went straight to the back for the park. We were some of the first ones there. Also, highly recommend using the single person lane. We frequently wound up getting to sit next to each other anyway, but we could go on rides 3-4 times it took a family to wait in the regular line.
Also…it was easy for us to bring in snacks and rose in a waterbottle. Not sure if you’re interested, but wanted to share. Have fun!
DCR
+1 to the single person ride. I went with a group of friends last year in early December, so before schools got out. The lines were not crazy, but it make a noticeable difference over the waits we had at Disney and we all still ended up close to each other on the rides.
anon
We did this at Disneyland with my older two kids (8 and 10), and they were able to ride on so many more rides. They went on Radiator Springs three times in 20 minutes.
AttiredAttorney
Really helpful comments everyone! Thank you!
Uncomfortable
Regular lurker here looking for advice on dealing with an overly friendly (for lack of a better term) coworker. Sorry this is so long… I needed to get this off my chest!
I recently finished grad school and started a new job (not law). I began working closely with someone who I intially thought was just quirky but now makes me very uncomfortable on a daily basis. For context, I’m a late-20s woman. The coworker is also a woman, about 10 years older than me, but we have the same title/role – she is not my superior. I also think it’s relevant to mention that’s she’s married to a man. This is a professional environment where people are friendly but generally keep to themselves.
This coworker was very welcoming to me when I first arrived. She was also fairly new, and we were assigned to partner on a major project that required a lot of our time. As a result, we are pretty friendly.
I am of the camp that work and personal life should stay separate. Other than the occasional group happy hour, I prefer not to socialize outside of work, and I have a friendly-but-professional relationship with the rest of my colleagues. Also relevant: due to a past abusive relationship, I am very uncomfortable with being touched or grabbed without permission (I’m working on this and have spoken to a therapist about it, but it is a firm boundary).
This woman continually brings up extremely personal topics (examples from this week include her gynecologist appointment and her husband’s spending habits) that I would prefer not to discuss at work. My approach has been to redirect – usually something like “hah.. okay, what’s going on with this project?”. She also regularly (nearly always) speaks to/emails me using endearments like sweetie, hun, etc. This is not something I’m even comfortable with my boyfriend doing. I haven’t directly addressed it (which is on me), but I have never once reciprocated. She continually pushes me to hang out with her friends outside of work. I’ve used every excuse in the book and even said multiple times that I prefer to keep work at work.
Finally, she touches me and grabs me constantly. In basically every conversation, she grabs my forearm, touches my shoulders, and/or touches my knee/thigh area. At first I handled this by physically moving her hand off of me or walking out of her reach to continue the conversation. I know this may seem silly, but this actually makes my heart race with anxiety to the point that I can’t have a productive conversation. I finally directly addressed it maybe a month into working with this woman and said I’m uncomfortable being touched and would prefer she not do it. Yet… it continues. Just the other day, she went to hug me without asking. This was very unwelcome and (I feel) unprofessional. I stopped her and said “I need to not be touched at all please.” She had a wildly inappropriate reaction to this (in my opinion) – she is now literally pouting in meetings with me, won’t make eye contact, speed-walks past my desk, sends me extremely curt and almost passive-aggresssive emails, etc.
I’m extremely uncomfortable with this woman’s behavior. It’s frustrating that when I try reinforce my boundaries, she reacts immaturely and unprofessionally.
How would you wise ladies handle this situation?
Uncomfortable
Forgot to mention that she also comments on my appearance on a daily basis – you’re so beautiful, you look so pretty today, etc.
Not that this situation isn’t already uncomfortable…!
Anon
I would recommend posting on Ask A Manager’s Friday open thread. They often have good advice.
I actually think her widely inappropriate reaction to a request not to be hugged (seriously!! I am not a hugger, and that would piss me off) is your out. Based on your post, you have tried low key ways to get her to back off and she ignored them. At this point, I think the best approach is to avoid her and not be friends since it seems like asking her to stop with the touching and terms of endearments will only either be ignored and get you an inappropriate response.
anonshmanon
This. It’s likely that you cannot set your boundaries AND have her be chill about it. But you have set your physical-contact boundary successfully and now she’s pouting (which incidentally helps you achieve one of your other goals of having less private chitchat). You can’t control her behavior, but only yours. Good for you for setting those boundaries!
Uncomfortable
Thank you both for this! I’ve been concerned that I’m coming off as b!tchy or cold, so I’m glad to hear that others don’t think my boundaries are too unreasonable. I’ll check out the Ask a Manager thread!
Anon
You seem to be doing all the right things.
One of the things she is doing is worse than the other. You have told her touching is not ok. This is the main issue that I see. If she pouts, that’s on her.
She invites you to get togethers, you decline. Keep doing so. This is not HR worthy but if the first issue keeps happening then you may need to (1) say it once in the presence of a witness, (2) keep written records of it (3) think about how to escalate to a manager or HR.
Uncomfortable
The attempted hug incident actually did have a witness, though not someone I’m particularly close with. Very good advice going forward… so far I haven’t been keeping records of any of this since I was just chalking it up to different personalities. Thanks.
Anon
This is really odd. I’ve had some coworkers treat me (also a late 20’s female) like this in the past. I’m less of the work and personal separate camp, but when you start getting into discussions on gynecology appointments.. that’s a bit much.
At this point since you have already told her directly about the touching and have tried to create boundaries that she has not respected you might want to try some sort of mediation with HR. Especially if you two have to continue working closely together. Her passive aggressiveness could turn into outright sabotage and it’s probably best to make the issue known sooner than later.
Uncomfortable
You make a really good point. I did mention this to my manager (though kind of tangentially and not soliciting advice), so I think I’m okay there so far. I really do respect her a lot professionally, so I hope she’d be above sabotage… but you never know. Thanks.
Anonymous
“She had a wildly inappropriate reaction to this (in my opinion) – she is now literally pouting in meetings with me, won’t make eye contact, speed-walks past my desk, sends me extremely curt and almost passive-aggresssive emails, etc.”
This is your out. I wouldn’t bother trying to talk to her about the swing in the other direction. Just continue to be professional and polite.
Uncomfortable
Thank you. She has actually ignored me all day today which has been a relief!! Agreed that professional & polite is the way to go moving forward… trying to stay out of drama!
Lana Del Raygun
I think you need to really internalize (if you haven’t) that she is unreasonable, and so her acting put out is not a sign that you’ve done anything wrong. People will see that she’s acting like a child. That said I would consider explaining the situation to your supervisor if you’re worried that they might think it’s some sort of mutual fight (not in a “please intervene” way, just like “I thought you should be aware that this is going on”).
Uncomfortable
Thanks. Yes, she is definitely acting like a child. Honestly I think just writing it out here made me realize that her behavior is really inappropriate and weird!! I was putting a lot of this on myself and blaming myself for being too introverted. This post was a good perspective shift!
I did mention it to my manager kind of in passing (like hey, I had a weird interaction with this person, just so you’re aware). If any of this continues next week, I’ll bring it up more directly with my manager to lay out what has been going on.
Anon
I’m wondering if you all have strategies for getting motivated to work on projects that don’t have deadlines or that have deadlines far in the future. I can buckle down and work no problem if there’s a big project due immediately, but tell me something doesn’t have a deadline and here I am, browsing the internet for hours and hours when I should be productive. I’m starting to feel so guilty about how little I’ve been doing at work lately.
Anonymous
I’m not sure how many people will see this so I’m hoping you’ll re-post on the weekend thread because I have this exact same problem.
Anonymous
I like lists, so I make a big list of all of the subsidiary tasks. When I come in, I tell myself I just have to do one of them, and it doesn’t matter which one. That usually gets me engaged and means I make some progress each day. Plus, I get to cross off something on the list.