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Friday’s TPS Report: Drapey Grid Print Tee

The Limited Drapey Grid Print Tee | CorporetteOur daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Happy Friday! I'm really liking this teal grid print shirt from The Limited (also available in blue, black, and red, and also available as a camisole or long-sleeved top in tall and petite sizes). The wide grid pattern strikes me as an interesting twist on a classic, and I think the teal is flattering. The t-shirt is $39.95 full price, available in sizes XS-XL. The Limited Drapey Grid Print Tee Psst: Here's a plus-size top with a striking pattern. Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

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176 Comments

  1. For a lateral law firm associate move (mid to senior level), what percentage of the associate’s pay does a headhunter typically get for a successful placement? Obviously, it’s determined by contract, but what’s typically the going rate when it’s not an exclusive search and not a niche practice but a pretty common one? Thanks.

    2. It used to be very standard – 25% of base comp everywhere but NY which is typically 30% of base comp. However, in recent years (post 2008), most firms, including mine, have negotiated much lower rates for associate hires. Some firms have negotiated a standard rate of 20%; others have a less rigid approach and request lower rates for less experienced hires or for lower demand practices. Many firms simply won’t use recruiters at all — we did that in 2009-2010 but are back to using them again on select positions.

  2. My boyfriend and I moved in together a little over a month ago. Since then, we’ve only seen our friends maybe two or three times. Every night, we’re both so eager to come home to each other, make dinner, catch up. On the weekends, we’ve been having to spend a lot of time on new-home-related activities and making new routines. Friends want to get together tonight and–while I know it would be great fun–part of me just wants to stay in with my SO. With the fall weather and our giant dog, it’s just so cozy at home!

    Did you guys go through this kind of “honeymoon” phase? Will it pass? I don’t want to neglect my girlfriends, but I’m afraid that’s starting to happen.

    1. Why don’t you invite people over? When we moved into a great new place, all I wanted was to have people over to see it – you can be all domestic and make great food and cocktails for people, while still seeing your friends. (Keep in mind the honeymoon has loooong passed on us living together but the urge to be lazy together is still there for sure.)

      1. Yes! My fiancé and I are complete homebodies by nature so we make an effort to invite friends over to our place. Hosting is a great way to get to see your friends but also remain comfortable in your own home. Personally, I prefer the effort of preparing food and cleaning to the travel required to go out to see people.

      2. Yay! Fruegel Friday’s! I LOVE Fruegel Friday’s and this tee shirt, but $39 is NOT all that fruegel to me, Kat!

        As for the OP, when I let Alan move his stuff into my apartement, we wound up spendeing more time natureally — like you, we started shoppeing for food together at Eli’s and Fairway’s at the end, but he would NEVER wash the clothe’s or the sheet’s or the toilet or the shower, even tho he dirtied them all up, and I wound up alway’s doieng the dishes also. FOOEY b/c I should NOT be the maid, even tho we had the cleaneing lady come in once a week.

        You have to teach a manto pull his own wieght, and to do thing’s for you around the apartement. He also just let me buy all the food and once in a while he would come home with Chinese takeout, which was from a place on 2nd Ave that smelled gross when I walked by. And he had onley one freind that came over but when he did, he was alway’s stareing at me. I think he might have had probelem’s with his eye’s b/c they would NOT look directley at you, but down, so I could swear he was stareing at my boobie’s. Alan said he didn’t but I think he liked to stare at my boobie’s.

        Also, Alan never liked for me to do anything with my freind’s b/c he thought they would get mad at me for dateing him b/c he was so schlubbey. Myrna did NOT think he was worth the troubel, but he did have an acounting degree and was workeing on a CPA, but he wound up looseing his job and could not get the certificate b/c of the alchoholism that he fell into. Why he perfered the bottel over me is something I will NEVER understand. Even dad said that he was a looser after he found out about the alchohol. FOOEY!

        But your guy can’t be as bad as Alan, so best of luck with him. Make sure he earn’s your respect b/f you give all of yourself to him or YOU will regret it like I did, tho I am OVER him now. YAY!!!!!!

      3. “I don’t want to neglect my girlfriends, but I’m afraid that’s starting to happen.”

        Yes, yes it is, and your girlfriends notice, and they probably are empathetic but annoyed. Do you even like your friends?

          1. Apparently great minds think alike in more than one regard – I agree with this comment AND I’ve been posting under “Bee” for a while ;)

          2. Oh please. Rude? How about honest. This poster wants validation of her choice to neglect her friends. That’s all there is to it. She recognizes she’s doing it, but just wants to be pat on the back for her desire to stay in with her boyfriend. Sure, neglect your friendships, but recognize that it is irritating to people (or even hurtful) and that if she keeps it up, she risks being excluded from the group. I guess this post just surprised me because a) I still like to see my friends when I’m in relationships and b) its obvious to the OP that she’s neglecting her friendships- so why ask?

          3. Love it! My real first name is hard to pronounce for some people, so a few of my real life friends call me Bee. I thought it’d be appropriate :)

            I’m a long time lurker, new poster.

        2. Ugh, can we just stop with all the snarkiness on this site? When people first started mentioning it, I thought they were being sensitive, but man, it’s starting to seem spot on with comments like these!

          1. I don’t feel like that comment was that bad. If you cut out the last question, it’s just blunt and truthful.

          2. And as we get older, some of us come to realize that we don’t like all of our friends and decide to distance ourselves from them. I think it was a fair question that just came off sounding rude instead of asking her something she should ponder.

        3. This is not so much in response to OP, but a comment overall… I took a lot, a LOT, of flack from friends when I moved in with my BF (now husband). I was among the first to do it. My non-cohabitating friends did not understand that I was going through a mega shift in my life by us living together, and didn’t for a minute stop to consider that when I was often absent from dinners and yoga dates that I otherwise would have been at. It was what it was: I had less time for them.

          Relationships change, friends evolve, and people who aren’t evolving/changing at the same rate or in the same way aren’t always on board. Those same friends now, 3-4 years later, are going through it themselves. I see them less because there is someone in their life they need to see more. I took a lot of flack for spending Friday nights in with my boyfriend that I otherwise would have spent with him, and others, at a bar, but I’ll never regret my choice.

          OP, don’t blow off your friends completely (it certainly doesn’t sound like you are). But, it’s ok that the relationships with friends are evolving, too. You’ll find a balance – it will take time, but so long as you’re committed to both relationships, you’ll be fine.

          1. If that was directed at me, anon at 10:13a, I’d respectfully submit that I’m not over sensitive to it, I just get irritated by people who see the solution to their “problem” (neglecting friendships) but refuse to implement the obvious solution (hang out with their friends).

        5. Worse, perhaps, than the Smug Marrieds are the Bitter Singles. Relax, hon, someday you’ll find a partner and see your friends less, too.

          2. “Worse, perhaps, than the Smug Marrieds are the Bitter Singles. Relax, hon, someday you’ll find a partner and see your friends less, too.”

            What a b*tchy response. Why would you assume I’m single? I have a partner, and I still see my friends. It amazes me that not a single person disagreed with what I said, and yet you all jumped on me like 12 year old girls.

      4. Although I found some of my single girlfriends weren’t big fans of coming over and watching my husband and I play house. I think some of them wanted to hang out with “me” not “us.” Just something to keep in mind. You could of course still host a girls night at your house without kicking your SO out – he just shouldn’t be w/ you all the whole night. He can retreat to the bedroom or mancave for awhile.

        2. This is a great point that I didn’t think of. Most of my friends here are in couples that we are friends with. Now that I think about it, whenever I get together with the ladies alone we do go out.

        3. “Although I found some of my single girlfriends weren’t big fans of coming over and watching my husband and I play house.”

          This. I have one friend I have almost stopped seeing because she only wants me to come over to her house and watch them cook dinner and prepare lunch for the next day. No thanks.

    2. Go see your friends! This is the thing I don’t get – you live with your SO so presumably you get lots of quality time. Unless you don’t really care about seeing your friends, I don’t see why you wouldn’t make the effort once in a while.

      FWIW, one of my girlfriends did this – moved in with her boyfriend and stopped coming out when we invited her. We stopped inviting her completely – you don’t want that to happen.

    3. Go out with your friends tonight. Or they will stop calling. A honeymoon phase is normal, and it’s also neglecting your friends. Sounds to me like pre moving in you spent quite a bit more time with your friends and you haven’t always been a homebody so I’m sure they’ve noticed.

      1. Yes, don’t become one of those people who dumps all their friends when they get in a relationship. It’s natural to want to spend your time together but it is healthy to have separate interests as well.

        1. Or, if you need a more cynical motive: keeping your friends close during good times with your SO will mean having somebody to call (and a couch to crash on) if and when the honeymoon ends. You never want to hit bumps in your relationship and then realize he’s the only support you have.

          1. Agreed – you may think it will never happen to you, but break ups happen. You want to make sure you have a large support system in case of whatever.

    4. Though I generally agree with the other commenters that you should see your friends tonight, it’s only been a month, and you’ve seen them 2-3 times since you’ve moved in. If you feel like you’re neglecting them, you probably are, but from my perspective, I don’t see any one set of friends that often because we’re busy people. But if I was your friend, I’d give you a pass for a couple months, especially if I’m still seeing you a few times. I certainly wouldn’t be annoyed after only one month.

      ETA: Any guesses on why this is in moderation?

      1. Agreed. Moving is always stressful and time consuming, even if you’re not moving in with someone. I can’t imagine anyone would be offended if you have to spend a few weeks unpacking and getting settled in instead of socializing. I just don’t see this as an issue at this point.

        To OP’s point, there is more of a draw to stay home when you’re living with someone than when you’re living alone. When it’s just you at home, you have more incentive to hang out with people because being home alone every night gets kind of lonely. When you have someone else at home to snuggle with, you just don’t have the same incentive. You don’t necessarily have to ramp up to the same social schedule you had before, but you definitely should make the effort to hang out with your friends. Ymmv, but shooting for 1 weekend night + 1 weeknight of socializing seems reasonable.

    5. I may out myself as a recovering Rules Girl, but who makes Friday plans on a Friday? Especially when it seems like you have an understood plan to stay in tonight?

      I mean, make plans with your friends, if that is what you want. And make spontaneous plans when you don’t actually have plans.

      1. First, congrats! That’s such a wonderful feeling to have found someone you truly enjoy.

        W/r to your friends, make happy hour plans for right after work and tell him to do the same with his friends on the same night. Then, come home after your 2 drinks and apps and catch up with SO. If not happy hour, yoga or something right after work. It’s only a couple of hours apart. You have to fight to keep that balance because the more your routine schedule depends on him, the more you will rationalize any problems you two have (because you do not have outside perspective) and the less it will feel like your entire world turns upside down if it doesn’t work out with him. I get it’s hard to leave the house once you are in with SO though that’s why I would say try to go directly from work.

        Adding this here because I think the Rules are right on with respect to doing your own thing and not losing yourself in a relationship – completely.

    6. DH and I didn’t really go through a phase like that. There are probably a lot of reasons for this that aren’t relevant here, but having been the ignored friend more times than I’d like, I’d definitely make an effort if these friends are at all important to you. Also, PLEASE don’t be that friend who never hangs out without her SO or assumes he’s invited everywhere you are. After one of my good friends got married, I’ve literally never been able to hang out with her once without him. He’s a perfectly nice guy, but I don’t feel comfortable talking about anything I’d usually talk to her about, because I developed a friendship with her, not him. Also he had an annoying habit of interrupting what I was saying to talk with her directly about a totally different topic of conversation, so I’d just sit there and watch them talk. She was just charmed by how wonderful he is, but I was not. I eventually stopped hanging out with her when it became clear she didn’t want to hang out just the two of us sometimes. Anyway, maybe your SO doesn’t do annoying things like this guy does, but chances are your friends can’t be as totally normal/comfortable with him there as they are with you, and they probably think his presence is a lot less charming than you do.

      You’re probably not in problem territory yet after just a month, but if you value these friendships, I wouldn’t let this pattern persist. Issues like this is one of the reasons I’m not really friends with many of my married girl friends anymore. Weird though that my guy friends don’t seem to have this issue.

  3. Thank you to everyone yesterday who posted suggestions to help me break out of my bad-gifting rut. I tried to respond to many of your comments directly, but am still just so incredibly thankful for your collective wisdom. As an update- he’s getting a DeLonghi espresso machine (more of a toy than an appliance) and Bose noise-cancelling headphones are definitely going on my newly created secret Amazon wish list where I can post hints he drops throughout the year.

  4. I am new to these. Right now, I’m wearing with flats and a sweater, but feeling that it’s September and my ankles are already cold. I think the pants would look strange with socks. Does anyone find them wearable into winter (tucked into boots maybe)?

    1. I have several pairs of the Minnie pants and wear them all winter with boots – I think they’re better than full length pants because you don’t get that extra bulk around the ankle (not that it shows through the boots, it just feels too tight to me)!

    3. You could try nude for you or nude fishnet knee highs – maybe even coloured or black if you can get them and are more fashion adventurous than me. Not weird like socks, but warmer than nothing.

  5. My shoes frequently rub the back of my heels, but also press against the bone below my little toe. This is a problem in most shoes that I buy- I’m not sure if I’m buying the wrong shoes or if the problem is my feet and I should get orthotics. Does anyone else have hard to fit feet?

    1. Me! Have you tried wearing wides? For the back of the foot rubbing I wear socks- those little slip on foot cover ones, use NuSkin, or regular band aids. Barking Dog Shoes is good for referrals.

    2. It sounds like they may be too short… go in and get measured again. Feet keep growing. Also, for the bone below your little toe, the vamp may be too low. Does the shoe opening cut across that bone? If so, look for shoes that cut higher.

      In general, I find that most shoes have suffering from fast fashion in the past decade. They’re cheap, fall apart quickly, and offer no support. Invest in at least one pair of quality, comfortable shoes that you can wear to give your feet a break from less comfortable pairs.

    3. I have funny feet, too. High arches, wide in front, narrow in back, prone to bunions (but only the left one, which, BTW, is a half-size smaller than the right). I find that wide widths usually fit better but depending on the brand I range from 6.5 to 7.5 in similar styles. It doesn’t help that my favorite shoe is a pointy-toe mid-heel pump. Even within brands and similar styles the same size will not always fit. The only thing you can do is keep an open mind and keep trying on shoes…

    1. Yes, I got an IUD for the same reason, after having 2 kids both conceived during sloppy use of BCP (forgetting to take regularly, forgetting to start a pack on time, forgetting to get refills, not realizing my prescription was up, etc, etc). I know the pill can be effective if taken properly, but for me it only worked when I was in “OMG I absolutely can not have a baby right now and will set multiple alarms and checklists to make sure I take my pill on time every day and will always use backup methods when I forget a pill.” When I was in “oops, I guess I forgot to take one yesterday, better take 2 today” or “oh crap, forgot to start a new pack of pills 2 days ago” – that was how I wound up with my 2 kids. Who I love, and were wanted, just weren’t really planned for optimum timing. I went to an IUD because while a third child wouldn’t be devastating, we would prefer to make a conscious decision about whether to have #3, with a far lower likelihood of a surprise baby.

      Although if the universe wants to signal to me that I should have #3 by having the IUD fail, I probably wouldn’t mind too terribly – but my husband is mentally done at 2, so I agreed to go with a method that has a far less likelihood of resulting in another surprise, but that doesn’t close the door completely if we change our minds in the next few years like a vasectomy or tube tying might.

      1. I’m actually kind of glad to read your comment because I read the article and it wasn’t particularly informative about what is “normal use” vs. “Perfect use.” It sounds like my routine where I pretty much take the pill within a 2-3 hour window every night, and do this “oops, missed 1, better take 2 now” thing once very 3 months is probably fine.

    2. How is this shocking? If you don’t actually use your birth control, it won’t work. I never found taking the pill daily difficult. Wake up, brush teeth, take pill.

      1. Except I was on the Nuvaring, and pretty much all you really have to remember is to put it in on the right day every month. And despite that, it’s apparently not much better than just being on the pill. For pretty much every method, you can expect to get pregnant a majority of the time over a 10 year period (aside from IUDs, implants, or sterlization). I think most people would be surprised by that.

        1. I am very confused by your sentence: “For pretty much every method, you can expect to get pregnant a majority of the time over a 10 year period …”

          FWIW, I’ve never had a problem with the pill and I’ve always been less than perfect about it (taking it, on average, w/in a 5 hour window). I’ve also had friends who were more like Meg Murray about it (skipping days, starting late) and they did get pregnant. I’d say that if you take them as directed and they are 99% effective, someone will have to be that 1% but I don’t think that it’s accurate to say that just if you take them long enough, you’re bound to become the 1% at some point.

        2. I was on the pill for close to 30 years and never had an unplanned pregnancy. I wasn’t perfect, but pretty close — get up, brush teeth, take pill. I could probably count on the fingers of one hand the times I forgot and had to take two the next day.

          1. +1

            I’ve been on it for 13+ years, take it every day after my shower, just like I put on lotion every day after I shower. Like Senior Attorney, I can probably count on one hand the number of times I’ve forgotten, and on those days I’ve just taken 2 the next day. No problem whatsoever.

          3. Yep, this. On the pill for 25 years, forgot maybe 3 times – remembered later in the day or the next day. Wake up, brush teeth, take pill. Got preg first month of “trying” twice, so if i had missed several pills, might have had an “oops.”

        3. Good to think about. I’ve been thinking about switching from the pill (pill+condoms, actually) to Nuvaring, patch or IUD , since dissertation writing has completely screwed up my daily routines. (Plus, being in a different timezone than my school means traveling and more opportunities to screw up).

          1. I switched to the Mirena for the last 5 years of needing birth control and OMG I loved it. Nothing to think about, and it stopped my periods. Bliss.

    3. This is interesting. I can think of someone who was about to get served with divorce papers who (surprise!) wound up pregnant. I always figured that there was (at best) some BC roulette going on there if it hadn’t been deliberate.

      What I hate about the comments to the linked piece is that this is seen as the woman’s burden / responsibility. Ugh.

      1. Isn’t it though? I’m all for hormonal male birth control, but until we invent that how is remembering to take the pill or put in the ring not a woman’s responsibility. If my partner tried to take on reminding me about BC as his responsibility he’d wind up stabbed.

        1. I wouldn’t blame a guy who wanted confirmation each day that you had taken your pill before he would get it on. I can’t imagine if there was just a male pill and I had to trust that my partner had taken. You bet I’d be checking his pack each day. I’d probably actually want to see him swallow it each day LOL.

          1. If that’s his level of trust, he’s welcome to wear a condom. I am not a child checking in with daddy about taking my meds.

          2. what would you do though, especially after seeing those charts?

            in my city, there are a few cases of women who seem to go after professional athletes just to get pregnant. yes, the guys are not being smart. but unless you’re wanting to have a baby, if I were a guy, i’d always use something for that and especially for diseases (and if I have sons, I will tell them the same thing: your job is to take care of yourself and not rely on the other person / luck)

          3. This is why I think that I’d have a hard time with the guy taking birth control pills. I would want to check, not really out of distrust, so much as just my own personal neuroticism. If I personally were the one to forget it (which I certainly have, on occasion) and cause a failure (haven’t done that), at least I feel like it’s on me. I don’t think that I would be OK giving up that control.

            I would make a terrible heterosexual dude.

        2. It makes me sad. It was an eye opener for me when after a m/c (baby was wanted and tried-for), I was on orders not to get pg and a variety of factors made it so that bc was all a husband’s responsibility and I realized how relieved I was for things to be out of my hands and I didn’t have to do anything to my body (but let it heal).

        3. I actually disagree with this: “If my partner tried to take on reminding me about BC as his responsibility he’d wind up stabbed.”. BC is a couples’ issue because if you end up conceiving, the child with be the responsibility of both parties regardless of whether or not you are married. So in my book, a guy who politely reminds his partner about her BC or enquires about what method you are using is being smart. You only need to talk to someone who found out someone was pregnant when they had no interest in being a father or when they did not even envision being with the person longterm to know how stressful such a situation can be.

          1. There’s such a huge difference between enquiring about what method you use and making it his responsibility to make sure you take it every day. If someone finds out he’s going to be a father when he didn’t even envision being with that person long term, some one should have been using a condom every time he had sex.

  7. Thank you thank you to the person who recommended Target’s ponte fit and flare dress a few weeks ago ($27)! I’m wearing it for the first time today and I’m already looking online to buy more. It has nice, thick material, 3/4 sleeves, and is so comfortable! Perfect on a cool day like today! Highly recommend!

    1. What kind of cardigan do you wear with fit and flares? I love the look, but always find it difficult to add layers.

      1. So much this. I love fit and flares, but feel like a little girl in a sunday school outfit when i wear it with a cardigan or blazer. The balance is just off.

  9. I am remembering The Limited as a mall store that outfitted junior high and high school girls with chunky cotton sweaters (that my younger sister and half of her school would be wearing, along with those little coach cross-body bags). And now I see that (and Express) as places where grownups buy work clothes. I think I missed a big change because I would never in a million years think to go in there.

    Maybe Forever 21 took over the school-kid market and Express / The Limited stepped it up to be basic workwear (that I remember people buying at anchor-type stores in malls)?

    1. I started shopping there for work clothes six-ish years ago and I remember thinking the same thing. They’ve had a couple off seasons with not much that I liked for work, but I’ve been really happy for the last year.

      I hadn’t thought about it, but your theory about F21 makes sense.

      1. Oh, and I didn’t specify that I shop at The Limited – I haven’t been to Express since college, so I can’t speak to them.

    2. I bought my first suit at Express senior year of high school, and still have and regularly wear the grey pencil skirt (which has stretched a bit, admittedly). The knee-length Ally McBeal jacket I’ve gotten rid of, thank goodness.

    3. I still Express is a bit teenybopper. I mean, any place that sells suit “shorts” or a suit jacket with no sleeves is basically on my no no list.

      1. +1. I also don’t think the quality of their stuff is worth it. Seems like F21 but more expensive.

      2. I feel like the Express made sort of the opposite move – I used to shop there for work, but now it seems more “party” oriented. Of course, when I shopped there for work, I was a lot younger and less of a professional (casual office, before law school), so it might just be that my tastes have changed.

    4. I don’t think Extrewss has made the transition but the Limited is definitely focused on work clothing now. Most of it is not great quality, but great for those starting out.

  10. Boot vent. I have very high arches, very wide calves, and very long legs and I have just resigned myself to never finding a boot that actually fits me. First, I’ll never get it on because my arch just doesn’t fit into the foot part of the boot. If I can actually get it on, then the boot will never zip over my calves because my legs are longer and therefore the boot will invariably end at the widest part of my calf. Not a good look, even if it would zip. After buying and returning countless boots, I have just accepted my fate.

    4. I have had good luck with Born boots for my wide calves. For the high arches, you could add an insole.

    6. Thank you, everyone!! I think I’ll be looking into Duos. And vented boots :)

    7. Also, since you said you have wide calves – I’ve ordered boots in the past from WideWidths . c o m and they’re really great. Very helpful site!

      Even when I was skinny I had big calves.

    1. Now. I just got an email from them that it’s their annual sake. Fwiw, I don’t like my omg one bit. I ended up getting an MZ Wallace to replace it and it’s much cuter, lighter, smaller, and holds the same stuff.

  12. Just ugh. One of my friends posted a very interesting article on feminism on FB. I will preface all of this by saying I don’t normally get into internet flame wars. The article is linked below (next post). One of his other friends wrote this long rant about how feminists don’t understand feminism, and if liberal feminists would just get on board and _listen_, they would understand that conservative feminists are right, but either way, essentially, feminism was an unnecessary fiction created by women because discrimination was in womens’ heads. That made me steaming mad, so I told him that, to paraphrase Potter Stewart, I was pretty sure I knew discrimination when I saw it, and I personally didn’t care what label or ‘ism there was on it–I was not a fan.

    He then wrote back a super-long post saying that (i) _I_ could not recognize discrimination because my existence was subjective, yadda yadda; (ii) discrimination was in my head…etc. This went on for paragraphs, and the basic tone was, “Oh honey…there’s no such thing as discrimination–you’re _projecting_ it.

    Ugh. Just ugh. Sometimes I want to scream when the patriarchy (or crazy internet trolls) get me down.

    Discrimination against women is SO REAL. We live it.

    #endrant. Thanks for bearing with my UGH! Next time I just won’t respond.

      1. I really like this article. As a conservative , this pretty much sums up the struggle I have with defining myself as a feminist. I’ve seen on here, in fact, that you can’t be a feminist and be pro-choice, which I completely disagree with. But it all depends, I guess, on how you define it.

        1. I assume you mean you can’t be a feminist and not be pro-choice. As a liberal, self-proclaimed feminist, I would agree with that statement and the premise of the article to an extent. In the political realm, liberals often work to give women more freedom and equality while conservatives often seem to work to reduces women’s freedom (right to choose, equal pay, maternity leave, reproductive education, etc.) I can understand how more fiscally conservative people can still be feminists, but I just don’t think you can be a feminist if you don’t think women should be able to make certain choices about their bodies.

          1. This is what I don’t understand. I get your view, but you don’t seem to get that there’s any justification for being pro-life other than disallowing women to make choices about their bodies. I get that it’s a very complex issue with two sides that have earnest beliefs, but most pro-choice people I know don’t feel that way. They think by being pro-life, you are just trying to keep women down. Um no. I think it’s a baby. And I am all for birth control and reproductive education. That’s my solution. And I am still fully a feminist.

            I also lean libertarian, so I have some issues with the other policy debates.

          2. I think there are a lot of different lenses through which you can view this question, which explains some of the disconnect. I know some very pro-life, very feminist women, who essentially take the perspective that (barring medical necessity), offering abortion as the solution to unplanned pregnancy devalues human life generally and that such devaluation will always end up hurting women, who are already on the devalued end from a cultural and social perspective. There is also the argument that legal abortion has enabled us to avoid transitioning to a society that supports single parents (who are mostly women), and facilitates male irresponsibility.

            You may not agree with those arguments, but I have known women who were strongly feminist and strongly believed that abortion was a key component in reinforcing a patriarchal system that fails to fully value the lives of women and children.

          3. I’m sure I’ll get flamed for this, but I just hate the standard “pro-choice”/”pro-life” phrasing. I’m a libertarian leaning moderate Republican, and while I really believe abortion is wrong, I think the worst way to go about the whole thing is the way most of the pro-life groups do. It comes off as so patronizing, and patriarchal (particularly the lies they insist on telling women). I also hate the way pro-choices sometimes act like it’s such an easy one sided issue. I wish there were folks out there talking about the importance of birth control and health ed in preventing abortion.

            I wish I could openly say: I’m a feminist, and I think abortion is wrong, but I hate the way pro-lifers treat women, and I think safe, legal, & rare abortion is better than the alternative, even if I don’t love it. There’s no home for people like that.

          4. Those people talking about the importance of birth control and education in avoiding abortions: planned parenthood. Your home is with pro-choice feminists because it sounds like that’s what you are. All of my friends identify this way and most of us are also Christians who think abortion is wrong.

          5. to PLS-

            “but you don’t seem to get that there’s any justification for being pro-life other than disallowing women to make choices about their bodies”

            You may have other “justifications” for being “pro-life”, but that doesn’t change the fact that the “pro-life” position necessarily requires that you disallow women from making choices about their own bodies-regardless of what your motivation is (ie, the value of fetal life). That’s why many pro-choice women believe that you can’t be a feminist and be “pro-life.”

        2. I actually really like this article, as well. As a libertarian-leaning female, I identified with exactly what the author was saying. It does depend on how you define it – for example, I don’t think conservatives are working to reduce women’s freedom. But that’s a can of worms for another day.

      2. I didn’t object to the article–it had some valid points (and the base article, not the one I linked to) was written by liberal-leaning feminists. I don’t have an issue with people defining feminism by what it means to them. I did have an issue with a guy telling me discrimination didn’t exist and feminism was a crock. Anyway, glad you all liked it!

        1. For sure, I understood what you meant. I just thought the article was worth its own comment thread.

    2. All experiences are subjective, so you could just as validly say that his perception that there’s no discrimination is all in *his* head. There’s a consistent problem with privileged men claiming that their views are objective and that everyone else has some kind of angle (or flat-out delusion).

    3. Wait. So his basic argument was that people who experience discrimination cannot identify it because its a subjective existence that can, what?, only be identified by those NOT experiencing it. So basically white dudes get to decide what counts as discrimination because everyone else is too invested.

      Well, that isn’t self-serving at all.

      Sometimes people are just too stupid to engage with. Especially on le Facebook.

      1. Yep. I’ve never seen a political argument on Facebook lead to the enlightenment of anyone involved. You only end up really frustrated with the utter stupidity people you know possess. If I see a post and I really feel the need to correct the person, I just decide whether I actually need to be friends with that person and then either delete them or hide them from my newsfeed. It just isn’t worth it.

    4. This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes: “You can’t argue with stupid.” It also reminds me of that cartoon where the stick figure is sitting at the computer saying “I’ll come to bed later. SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET!” Haha. Just disengage.

      1. I’ve heard someone say “you can’t reason someone out of an opinion they didn’t reason themselves into.” I really really really try to remember that but it’s so hard sometimes!

    1. Leggings are not pants.

      My child’s school has a grid of uniform options and leggings are lumped in with footless tights.

    2. I don’t see why people get upset about leggings-as-pants when clingy, tight shirts are totally commonplace. At least my leggings aren’t showing cleavage!

      1. Because people are idiots who get riled up about things that have little to no impact on their own lives.

    3. Look, I don’t wear leggings as pants. But I get uncomfortable in a world where we tell girls that what they wear to school has some power over the learning capabilities of their fellow students. Especially when said things are common-place clothing items like leggings, or shorts, or t-shirts or exposed bra straps.

      Are they looks I would go with? NO. But I also wouldn’t wear JNCOs anymore – but I did in high school. I think we’re over sexualizing teenage girls and holding them responsible for the *perceived* reactions of their classmates (whether actually happening or not.) Which I have no patience for.

      1. We say it because it’s true. Teach a high school co-ed classroom for a few years – I assure you your mind will change.

        edit: I don’t like the fact that it’s true, but we cannot eliminate something like a dress code or suddenly allow crop tops in classrooms because we dislike the fact that such rules/codes are needed.

      2. This girl really has a point on school dress codes being so restrictive of girls vs boys. I believe that teenage boys need to be taught to pay attention to school lessons even if their are women around. And isn’t it ridiculous that we expect so little of our boys that we think they can’t look at the chalkboard if there’s a butt in front of them? ” If my peers are so distracted by the presence of a butt in a room, then they are the ones with the problem and need some serious adjustments to maturity levels.Instead of punishing us for something that’s not our fault, how about we teach men to have more respect for women? To not treat us as a sexualized object?Why should we feel guilty for what the other gender does? …….This sexualizes girls from a young age and teaches us that our body is something to hide. Dress codes were enacted to keep girls covered because being a female is distracting, and so boys can learn better. We are forced to apologize for having the body parts we were born with and teaches us that a man’s education is more important than a woman’s.”

  14. Hive, distract me. I’m pretty sure I’m pregnant but have not tested positive yet. I’m only a couple of days late but have been quite nauseous for more than a week with other physical symptoms as well. I am having a hard time concentrating and generally feel like a wreck. Help? This would be a good thing, I’m trying not to freak out too much since I haven’t seen the + yet.

    1. So take a pregnancy test? Or are you saying you’re late, think you’re pregnant, but the test is negative and you think you’ve tested too soon?

      Read a book. Watch season 2 of the mindy project. Do your work. Posting about your maybe pregnancy online is like the worst possible plan if you want to stop thinking about it.

    2. I remember this feeling. Just keep peeing on sticks every morning. Good luck!
      In the meantime, shop for accessories online or something – anything that you can wear pregnant or not.

    3. Whatever you do, don’t hang out on pregnancy boards.

      Get a trashy magazine. I like the movie idea. Get a drink :) Or don’t.

  15. Good news: I read Overdressed and I’m committed to buying fewer, high quality pieces instead of piles of cheap clothes.

    Bad news: I don’t know where to buy clothes! Quality is dropping even at pricier stores. Where do you buy high quality clothes? Are there any good brands left – especially ones with good labor practices? Do any of you work with seamstresses?

    1. Everything I buy has to be tailored because I’m an extreme hourglass. Your seamstress is your best friend. I have had all sorts of things done, including taking ribbing off the bottom of a sweater and changing necklines in sweaters, cardis, and tops (can’t wear button shirts, obv). You might look at consignment shops for some of the higher end names.

      It is hard to find good quality I agree. Most of the places listed here are reliable I would think, but I don’t know about fair labour practices.

    2. I would love to hear other’s thoughts on this, but here are a few “to-buys” or “boughts” on my list with this goal in mind:

      Theory suits (the extra 100 bucks over j crew et al is worth the “damn self!” in the mirror every morning)
      Frye boots (sick of sh*tty boots lasting one season and killing my feet)
      Cole Haan heels (this was a game-changer in work heels. worth ten cheap pairs.)

      I’ve also decided to start sewing. I’m just self-teaching (youtube helps), but i’ve made a drapey shell for under suits and i’m about to take on a pencil skirt.

    3. ‘Brands’ aren’t a good starting point since the business of many mainstream fashion brands is design and distribution with the critical bit in the middle ‘manufacturing’ outsourced to 3rd parties. I find it helps to think about products, not brands – pay more attention to the fabric and content label sewn into the side of a garment, not the brand one at the collar, as a start – and to educate myself on what makes for a quality product (quality linings, properly-attached buttons, hand-finished hems and so on).

    4. I’m in your exact boat, and I read Overdressed about a month ago. Here’s my approach (sorry for the length!):

      I first did a massive purge of my wardrobe over the course of a month- just a bit at a time, taking a good, hard look at what I had and actually wore. I ended up with a wardrobe that has been reduced by probably 70%- it sounds scary and like you’d end up with nothing, except that now I look in my closet and see only things I like, and am now actually *more* likely to wear more of my clothing since I can really see it. This helped me figure out what I actually had (how many times have you bought an item, only to come home and realize you already owned something similar?), and what actual holes I had in my wardrobe. This probably was easier for me than many people because I’m a purger by nature, but clothing is the one item I tended to hold on to.

      After figuring out my wardrobe and preferences, I’ve now committed to buying just 2-3 things a season that are predetermined “holes” with an extra bonus item if I see something really fantastic. No more impulse buying 1+ items per week (I feel terrible typing that!) that meant I ended up with a disjointed, rather cheap wardrobe, and would then lead to more purchases since those things often didn’t integrate with my existing wardrobe.

      Nordstrom has a TON of results of clothes manufactured in the US (which may or may not be ethically produced, but I figure has a higher chance to be so) if you search “USA”- literally pages. I was so excited when I found that.

      EBAY! I’ve been so pleased and surprised with this. If there’s an item I love that is either out of budget, perhaps not ethically produced, or sold out, I EBay stalk it until I find it in my preferred color/size/ condition- some items are basically brand new, and at a reduced cost. I’ve not had any real luck in resale shops in my area- like she found in Overdressed, most of the stuff I find is worn out clothing that was cheap to start with, or never in my size.

      I nearly always stick to natural fibers, or blends that are a very high percentage of natural fibers. IME, synthetics lead to pilling and wear much faster, plus they just don’t feel as luxurious.

      Shoes are easily the biggest line item, since they’re pretty involved to manufacture. For me, this is a very worthwhile cost because I have foot and back issues, and I figure it’s an investment in my health.

      And the final, tricky part- be prepared to wait awhile to find the right item to fit a wardrobe hole.

      1. Oh, and one more rule- I now focus on shopping in person, and much less on online. Being able to see and feel an item is invaluable. I used to have a fair number of online purchases that I just felt “meh” about, but then kept because I didn’t feel like going through the hassle of returning them.

    5. If you are in Canada (or even if you are not, they ship internationally), I highly recommend Judith & Charles.

      I find they run a bit small. I am the exact measurements for their size 4 (and I am often a size 2 in other brands) and I usually take a 6 in J&C.

      The clothes are designed and made in Canada, so the labour practices are good.

      And the quality is high for the price. I, too, have been very disappointed with declinging quality at many retailers.

    6. +1
      I would love to see Corporette feature more higher-quality (even if higher-priced) options on this site. I generally try to avoid polyester (or “ponte”, as seems to be the trend these days). Would love to see more natural silk, wool, or linen garments!

    7. Don’t know your price points but Boss dresses and suits are great quality. As are cole Haan and Stuart Weitzman shoes.

  16. Dear objective internet people, please tell me if I’m being unreasonable:

    I’m 13 weeks pregnant with twins. Since getting pregnant I sleep well about 15% of the time. I started sleeping in our spare bedroom because I get up about 3 times per night to go to the bathroom and I don’t want to disturb my husband’s sleep. Due to my extreme tiredness I admit that I don’t get a lot of household things done in the evenings. I can hardly be productive through my workday. Most nights I can hardly cook dinner and end up just grabbing dinner on my way home from work for the both of us. My husband does a lot around the house (some housekeeping type stuff, upkeep on lawn, repair of various things that break, etc. so I don’t want to make him sound like a lazy P.O.S.). This morning he asked me if I slept good and as usual I said no, not really, I was awake from 4 am – 5 am like I am pretty much every day, I’m feeling really tired, I’m so glad it’s Friday. He comes back with “maybe you could just start getting up and doing your laundry when you can’t sleep instead of just laying there not sleeping”. I was and still am furious 3 hours later. I realize I have a big pile of laundry that needs to be done but I don’t plan on doing it at 4 am even if I’m not sleeping.

    Overreaction on my part? He says “he was just trying to be helpful”. I want to stab him in the throat (hypothetically of course).

      1. We don’t do each other’s laundry because we’re both very particular about the way it’s done.

        1. Maybe just get over that now? You’re going to be living with 2 nightmarish dictators soon. No time to be particular about laundry.

          I’d let his comment go. Yeah he was kinda jerky but it sounds like on the whole he’s not, and if we can’t forgive the people we love most occasional lapses the world is a difficult place.

          1. Calling babies “nightmarish dictators” makes me laugh so hard. I want to steal it.

          2. I literally LOL’d at the nightmarish dictators comment. I agree so much with this – give up any and all pretense that you have a lot of time to dedicate to carefully doing laundry. It sounds like a stupid comment on your husband’s part that combined with an over-tired and hormonal pregnant woman.

          3. By I’m particular I mean I don’t dry undergarments, jeans, sweaters or other things that shrink or can be damaged by heat. My husband thinks it’s ridiculous, I think it’s normal :).

            I’m excited and scared to meet my nightmarish dictators! So funny!

          5. +1. I also like the blog “Short Fat Dictator”.

            He probably doesn’t realize how the tone comes off – I would let it go for now. Maybe have the come to Jesus talk if he makes a comment like that again?

            Also, it’s time to get over how the laundry is done. Poop will be all over both of your clothes soon enough! :)

          6. Yeah your laundry standards are ridiculous to maintain with twins running around. Undergarments? Pish- posh I throw all my bras in the dryer and they’re find. Jeans? They stretch a little and your fat breaks them in again.

          7. Eeek! I think once you meet the dictators you might find that the time savings of tumble-drying vs. line-drying your underwear is worth any potential shrinkage.

          8. I call my baby a terrorist and a dictator all the time. Because she is. And, for the record, the dictator, says, “NO LAUNDRY. NO COOKING. NO EATING. NO ENJOYING A BEVERAGE. NO HAIR. NO MAKE-UP. NO SHOES. AND, FOR GOD SAKES, NO SLEEPING!”

          10. I usually use “tiny dictator” but he could definitely be upgraded (downgraded?) to “nightmarish” this week. Effective immediately. He says the same thing as Anonymous at 12:43’s… Good thing I was stopped in traffic for 45 minutes this morning because he made me so late getting out of the house; I actually had time to put on makeup!

        2. Sorry – I didn’t scroll down all the way, don’t think I’m adding anything to the conversation when I said what everyone else is saying.

        3. I’m pregnant, so I’d probably be hormonally pissed, too, but ultimately, he was probably trying to be helpful. I’ve seen advice many times that says if you can’t sleep not to just lay there and get up and do something, so maybe that was where he was coming from.

          My husband has been doing all the laundry for years, and in that time has only actually ruined one sweater. Sometimes things get wrinkled or not hung up “correctly” or what have you, but it’s just not worth it to stress over. Much easier than doing it myself!

          1. I have three tiny dictators and would never let my husband do my laundry.

            However, he can do his and the boys’. My daughter is starting to have stuff that doesn’t go in the dryer though too. She and I have a separate laundry basket for that stuff and take turns.

            To OPs original question. Assume the best, that he did not mean that to be as jackass-ish as it sounded. And, he should be prepared to do things that he otherwise finds ‘ridiculous’ while you are incubating said tiny dictators.

    2. I could totally see my husband saying this in an honest/helpful way and me being pissed that he didn’t realize why his delivery sucked. I think you are actually both right here and it is just a communication error. Laying in bed when you can’t sleep can cause more anxiety and more trouble sleeping and sometimes getting up and doing something and going back to bed after helps. Laundry is one of those mindless tasks that one could probably do half asleep and not hurt themselves unlike cooking or chopping wood. It wasn’t an awful suggestion but it probably came out to you like “ugh, your laundry pile is huge and annoying and I want you to do it and I don’t care that you are pregnant and tired.”

    3. IDK, I don’t think this is offensive. Lying in bed wide awake is super frustrating to me, so if someone said this to me I’d assume the best and just think they were trying to help.

      But if you want your husband to just say “I’m sorry, that sucks” then tell him.

    4. I can see my husband saying something like this in a misguided attempt to help. Assuming that your husband wasn’t making a passive aggressive dig, yes, you’re overreacting. Blame the hormones.

    5. I would say overreaction, but when you’re 13 weeks pregnant, you get to overreact. I actually agree with him, only because I’ve read about how when you can’t sleep, laying there stressing out about how you can’t sleep only makes it worse. It can be productive to go do something else for awhile, but he could be more sensitive about how suggesting a chore comes across.

      ETA: Apparently I could have waited two minutes and just said I agreed with everyone else.

    6. Overreaction. In general, wanting to stab your spouse in the throat is an overreaction. It’s a stressful time for both of you and it sounds like tensions were running high this morning. He said something dumb. I would give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn’t mean to be hurtful/insensitive.

      ETA – Me too HSAL, you ladies are quick on the response!

    7. I can’t speak to his delivery but I do laundry when I can’t sleep. I find that I get more frustrated laying in bed unable to sleep than if I just get up and do something to make myself more tired.

      1. I actually think it’s recommended that if you can’t sleep, you get up to do something else rather than lay in bed. Maybe he read one of those articles. I would just say something like, “hey, I didn’t find it helpful when you said X this morning, I’m sure you meant well but in the future I just want to hear Y.”

        I think a lot of times people want to be helpful and suggest things to “solve” the problem when we don’t actually want ideas, we just want to hear “wow, that sucks!” … I’d assume the best and move on.

    8. Gah.

      The good news is that many years from now (MANY years from now) this will be a funny family story that you tell over Thanksgiving dinner with the twins.

      Here’s a similar one that might make you feel a tiny bit better about insensitive dads-to-be: I was about 9 months pregnant and crying because I’d looked at the mirror and seen a whale looking back. “I never thought I’d look so UGLY!” I wailed to my husband. Now, all women know that there is only one appropriate response to this, and it’s “What are you talking about? You look beautiful!” Well, my husband didn’t get the memo, because his response was “Oh, don’t worry about it. It’s only because you’re pregnant!”

      Stab him in the throad, indeed…

      1. Oh man. That definitely deserves a stab in the throat! Are you able to laugh about it now?

        1. I am, indeed! See “funny family story over Thanksgiving dinner,” above. ;)

      2. This should be a whole separate thread. I could fill a book of stupid stuff my husband said while I was pregnant. When I was 12 weeks pregnant (and gained about 5 pounds because I could only keep down carbs), I was trying to get a wrap dress on one morning and got the ties stuck. I guess I made some sort of annoyed “Gah!” noise while I was doing it, and my husband poked his head in and (trying to be sympathetic) said “Oh, sorry. Are you mad because you’re so pregnant now that none of your clothes fit?”

        1. I’m 3 months now and this would not be funny if it happened to me, but it’s really funny in someone else’s life, well after the fact. :)

        2. Hahaha, just last week I was complaining about how I hate all my clothes, and my husband helpfully supplied: “Well, it’s just because you’re ffffff…. pregnant. Right now. Just right now, I mean, not forever. [increasing panic] Thank you for carrying our child.”

          Bless them, they try.

    9. Ha ha. So the general consensus is I’m being a overly tired, hormonal pregnant lady. Okay, I throw in the towel on the throat stabbing, I’ll let it go. Thank you all, as always, for the objective feedback!

      1. I agree with all of the above, but would add, it sounds like you need a little help with the duties around your house that have been traditionally ‘yours’ pre-pregnancy. For example, instead of you being in charge of dinner every night, ask him to be responsible for dinner (carry-out or otherwise) on Tues/Thurs. Then you might be able to get your laundry started! As your pregnancy progresses, you will have to adjust how you divide up household chores, anyway… and once your twins get here, the old ‘normal’ is out the window. Good luck, hope this phase passes soon!

      2. To the OP – this is admittedly specific advice on the “do your own laundry” issue rather than the underlying insensitivity – but I had the same problem until I bought a set of mesh laundry bags. Everything that I don’t want to go in the dryer is in a mesh bag… so when husband switches clothes from washer to dryer, there’s no guesswork – he just brings me the mesh bag stuff to hang up as I please. (It makes it easier when I’m the one doing laundry too – no double checking all the clothes on the way into the dryer so that I didn’t miss anything.)

        1. This is a great idea. I currently wait way too long to wash my non-dryables (no laundry in my apt or building), and I send out my regular laundry. However, when I do have access to laundry in my apartment or building I am totally going to do this.

        3. Adding my approval to this suggestion. Just because you’re particular about certain things doesn’t mean he can’t do your laundry. He just needs training, and the mesh bag helps.

          Also, the only appropriate response to a pregnant woman telling you she slept poorly is ” aw I’m sorry to hear that.”

    10. If it’s not his laundry, then I think he was trying to think of a way you aren’t just laying there frustrated you cannot sleep. Why not take on a mundane task that can be easily transported to the room you are in? I mean it’s all in his tone but I think if it’s not his laundry, he’s not saying it like “get yo #$%* together” but just trying to help. Maybe it’s a tiny bit of both.

      If you need more help getting everything done just ask him. And I don’t know him or his tone so I don’t know if you are overreacting but sometimes hormones make me think reasonable things are just awful personal attacks so keep that in mind in an effort to keep peace with your ally :) He probably doesn’t think he could help with that because you said you don’t do each other’s laundry but is there anything else he can do to help that would make it seem less overwhelming?

    11. For what it’s worth, the “nightmarish dictators” comment made me spit coffee over my keyboard. That’s totally what my twins were like as babies. They are 11 now so survival is possible. I think you are possibly over reacting due to hormonal pregnancy stuff, which is worse with twins so you can cut yourself some slack on that point. Good luck!

  17. OK, it is a well established fact that I hate traditional cotton button-downs.

    So why today did I think it was a good idea to wear one? I am SOOO uncomfortable.

    I bought this thinking it would be good for pumping-at-work purposes. Turns out even in those circumstances, I still hate buttondowns. I should have known better.

    Sigh.

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