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Updated: Nov 4, 2022 237 Comments · by

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: The Way-High Drape Pant

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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A woman wearing black pants and brown shoes

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I can’t get enough of high-waisted, drapey pants this season, and Everlane has one of the best versions I’ve seen so far. It has a wide range of colors and sizes and two different inseams, making it even more appealing for the shorter-legged ladies who, despite their best intentions, have a basket of clothes in the closet that are waiting patiently to be taken to the tailor for alterations. (It’s me. I’m talking about me.)

I think the trick to wearing these types of pants is to keep the top fitted to the body,, so feel free to break out a bodysuit or a slim tee that can be tucked in.

The pants are $118 at Everlane and come in sizes 0–20 and inseams of 30” or 32”.

Hunting for more wide-leg pants to wear to work? We just rounded some up, and general favorites include pleated pairs like Favorite Daughter, Everlane*, Reformation*, and Abercrombie*, with flat-front pairs from Good American,* M.M.LaFleur, and Ann Taylor. (* = plus sizes; see the post for notes on petites and talls). We've also shared our thoughts on what shoes to wear with wide-leg pants! Our latest favorite wide-leg pants include these (as of 2024):

A woman wearing navy pants, sneakers, and a gray sweatshirt
Anthropologie
woman in beige wide-leg pants to wear to work
Reformation
woman in beige wide-leg pants to wear to work
Amazon / Tronjori
A woman wearing a cream-colored top, black wide-leg pants, and black sandals
Favorite Daughter (and Nordstrom)

Sales of note for 9.30.24

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Anon

    reposting from this weekend

    my watchmaker and vintage jewelry repair person (same person did both) has retired. I have a multiple items that need skilled repair and haven’t been able to find anyone.

    any recommendations for experienced repair work by either? local jewelers willing to try but I don’t want experimenting. I’m. not price comparing repairs and happy to support experienced craftspeople.

    I’m in NNJ but can ship if needed.

    thank you!!

    • Panda Bear

      I don’t know of anything near you, but I recommend Market Square Jewelers (NH and MA locations; their workshop is based in Dover NH). They are an estate jeweler and experienced working on antique pieces. They have a partner organization, based in CT I think, who are skilled in old watch repair. Might be worth a phone call to see if they can help you. Good luck! I adore my antique jewels and I’ve been happy with market square’s work.

    • Anon

      Try Lang Antiques in SAn Francisco. My wedding ring is from there and they do repairs, service and watches, at least on items from there. Would be worth a call.

    • Anon

      Both in Manhattan:
      For watch repair: Grand Central Watch 212-685-1689, in Grand Central’s 45th Street Passage. They’ve fixed for me a Rolex, a vintage Baum & Mercier, and a Cartier Tank. They replace batteries for pretty much all watches. They give estimates prior to initiating any repair.

      For Jewelry repair: Alex Sepulveda, 45 W. 47th St., Booth F (212) 398-1424. He has repaired my Tiffany diamond wedding band, strengthened the prongs on my engagement ring, and rebuilt a a vintage rose gold filigree band, including replacing rubies, that was my grandmother’s. Have not used him post-pandemic, so probably best to call first to make sure he is still around.

  2. Anon

    I absolutely love these pants – too bad my size is sold out in every colour!

  3. Vicky Austin

    Paging the anon who left the candle comment re: loving BBW Fresh Balsam, cinnamon, and cranberry/orange scents. I need to hear about your favorite cranberry orange candles! I always get the frosted cranberry from BBW but I don’t feel that it smells like much of anything. Help a candle scent kindred spirit out?

      • Anon

        That’s lovely! And avoids the artificial fragrances in candles which make me sick, so I’m excited to try this one.

    • Anon

      I think the problem is that cranberry doesn’t really smell like anything, so a cranberry candle also won’t have much of a scent. It’s completely accurate!

      • Anon

        Agree that cranberry doesn’t have a scent. I think you’re looking for a sugary berry scent mixed with orange. That may help you find the candle you seek.

    • anon

      I’m that poster! There is a local-to-me company called Wax Buffalo that has a blood orange scent that is simply AMAZING. So fresh, and I especially love it for January and February when I need some brightness in my life. Wax Buffalo ships, IIRC. I know Yankee Candle gets a lot of hate but the Cranberry Chutney scent is really nice.

      • Shelle

        I saw this post and wandered over to Yankee Candle trying to remember the orange cranberry holiday scent I bought last year. Didn’t find it but ended up with fifty bucks worth of other candles ha!

    • KS IT Chick

      I’m going to put in a plug for my local candlemaker, Waxman Candles in Lawrence, KS. They have been in business since 1969, but they didn’t really have a good online presence until late-2020. They have an amazing assortment of products both scented and otherwise.

      • Anon

        I love a local candle company. I’m in the Bay Area but still subscribe to a monthly candle from Keap candles in Brooklyn thanks to a recommendation from this group. I will check out your local company too!

    • Senior Attorney

      Trader Joe’s always has great seasonal scented candles if there is one near you.

      • Ellen

        I love Trader Joe’s! Their food is fresh, and I love their Kimchi! If you want to experience something really spicy, try Trader Joe Kimchi in the refrigerated section, next to the Sourkraut, which is also pretty good.

    • Anon

      I’m the candle OP from yesterday.

      I don’t know a cranberry/orange candle unfortunately. I said I sometimes like an orange/pomander candle at the holidays, and that was primarily referring to Diptique Pomander and the Bitter Orange candle from Beauty Pie (membership required)

      For a less spicy orange I also like this candle from Voluspa

      Check out this product at Sephora.com – VOLUSPA Goji & Tarocco Orange Glass Jar Candle – 18 oz/ 510 g 1-wick Candle

      It’s not as strongly scented as higher end candles but it’s really pretty in that red glass jar around the holidays. This will be the 4th or 5th year I’ve had one around Christmas.

      I’m still open to pine/fir greenery scented candles if anyone wants to chime in!!

  4. Emma

    Where can I find a pretty white wool coat? I’m getting married in March – small ceremony and meal at a restaurant. I would like something pretty to wear on top of my dress so we can take pictures in some favourite spots on the way, since the weather might be bad (Eastern Canada). Budget is flexible.

    • Cat

      JCrew has a few – the Mirabelle would look particularly elegant, I think, but the Lady Day is pretty too!

      • January Bride

        I got married last January and did the J. Crew Lady Day coat and then I special ordered fabulous rhinestone buttons for the front buttons and smaller versions for cuff buttons and took it to a tailor to swap the buttons for a more glam look!

    • Vicky Austin

      When I was seriously considering wearing a white coat for my wedding a few years ago, I had my eye on London Fog (don’t see any white in their inventory this year, unfortunately), Chadwick’s of Boston, or Anne Klein. You might also try Land’s End or LL Bean (though these last 3 are bound to be a bit less trendy-looking).

      Or you could go full Princess of Wales and look at Reiss.

      • Emma

        Thanks! I’ll check those out. Reiss sounds gorgeous, and I know I said a flexible budget but now I’m thinking it might be a lot for something I realistically will only wear once…

    • Anon

      I have this from Aritzia in Camel and I love it. There is also a short version. (Link to follow)

    • S in Chicago

      I love this one from Express of all places. They also have a pretty wrap one right now: https://www.express.com/clothing/women/wool-blend-novelty-button-trench-coat/pro/08944175/color/Swan/

      Usually Talbots is my go-to when looking for a dressy wool coat for events, but I’m not seeing anything there right now. Not sure if it’s because it’s too early in the season or if they have gone the way of the puffer because things are more casual these days. But it might be worth looking on Ebay or Poshmark in your size, especially since they used to be real wool and not the low percentage blends that so many stores carry now. I bought an alpaca Talbots one off Ebay years ago in green and it was absolutely stunning. Absolutely perfect for attending holiday activities. I wish it still fit.

    • Anon

      I agree with a PP that Aritzia has some lovely coats. I have a beautiful cream coat from Vince that I got several years ago and is one of the things in my closet that just makes me happy when I wear it.

    • anonypotamus

      I would also check out the Real Real. I have gotten some gorgeous very expensive coats there for very good prices. It obviously depends on their inventory, and I don’t know what size you are looking for, but I got a virgin wool/cashmere Max Mara knee length coat in amazing condition for under $300 last year. Just search by color and size. You can usually return clothing too, unless its marked off 40% or more.

    • Anon

      Sounds lovely. I’d also consider a light blue coat to be your something blue!

    • Deedee

      This sounds beautiful! I love some of the suggestions you’ve already gotten. Personally I would probably buy something that I’d wear again; I have a black lady day coat from Jcrew that I seriously considered also getting in an off-white color. You could consider also some type of vintage fur or stole if that’s something you’d be comfortable with. Congratulations!

    • Seafinch

      I love this idea and these suggestions. We had our legal marriage done at city hall in Fredericton followed by restaurant lunch and I absolutely loved it. I am very curious where you will take pictures and think there are lovely opportunities, knowing the East Coast Canadian cities.

    • Elbe

      Have you looked at vintage options? I have a beautiful Oleg Cassini Faux fur.

  5. Anon

    My paralegal who is across the hall from my office, whom I really like as person and get along with well, is always cold. She is now running a space heater, and it is severely messing up the temperature in my zone of the office. She does not have a door that she can close. My office gets afternoon sun, and if I don’t turn on the air conditioning over lunch, the temperature in my office will quickly climb to almost 80 degrees. The thermostat for my zone is located in my office, so I am trying to keep my door closed as much as possible. But, we are an open-door office, and I want to remain accessible when otherwise available. I remove clothing when I can and dress in layers, but there is only so much clothing that I can remove. Does anyone have any recommendations of how to address this?

    • Anon

      Ask your facilities team if there is a damper or something that can be adjusted so her office gets more heat and yours gets less?

    • Cat

      If she can’t be moved, and no adjustments made to building heat, I would ask her to use an electric blanket instead of a space heater.

      • Cat

        I’ve never worked in an office where an individual has control over whether the heat or AC is on! That’s a building-wide system so no way could anyone force just their office to run cool while the rest of the building is on hot…

        • Cat

          wow I completely missed the middle of the OP’s post — I need her to explain how that works…

    • NYCer

      Genuine question… What kind of space heater is she using? I have a tiny one under my desk, and there is no way it would impact anyone across the hall. It doesn’t even make the other half of my office warm. I guess maybe suggest she gets a smaller space heater? Mine is the brand “My Heat” FWIW.

      • Anon 2.0

        This. Most space heaters are small and basically warm your immediate area. Is she using some sort of giant industrial space heater? Are you sure the afternoon sun isn’t the culprit?

      • pugsnbourbon

        Yeah damn this must be the world’s strongest space heater!

        OP, I second the suggestions for asking facilities and having your paralegal use a heated blanket. Otherwise – could you use a doorstop and just prop your door open slightly? That gives the “come on in” signal without so much airflow.

    • Betsy

      Is it possible the space heater is a red herring here? It seems like if the thermostat is in your office, so is the temperature sensor, so it should be setting the temperature based on your office, not hers. And even if there is also a sensor in her space, her space heater would be raising the temperature so the heat should be turning down, not up.

  6. Anon

    I have never bought pants from Everlane. I am 5’6″. Which inseam would you all recommend? I want to be able to wear with a minimal heel. Thans!

    • Anon

      It depends on whether you’re long legged or not. All I can tell you is that 32” is considered a tall length. I’m 5’10” and that’s my flats length. Most pants are sold at 29-30” inseam for standard length.

  7. Anon

    Would the groin area of these pants be too baggy? They are throwing me off, but I have never worn a pair like this. Thanks!

    • Anon

      These pants honestly just look too baggy to me. Maybe my eyes are just not used to the new style, but I always thought that wide leg pants should still be close cut around the groin and upper thighs

      • Anon

        Agree. IDK how these stay up and there should be some volume below the knee but not this much overall. It also looks like they are drooping like MC Hammer Pants, Office Edition.

        • Anon

          If you look at the pictures of other colors, most have inches of the pants dragging on the ground. It looks like someone playing dress up with their parents clothing

      • Anon

        That’s my preferred wife leg cut. It would be called a flat front in men’s pants. I don’t know if they use that terminology in women’s.

        These are pleated front and that’s what gives the baggy all over look. I think style-wise it’s probably an evolution from paper bag waist pants from a few years ago.

        So, look for the term flat front and see if that helps.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t know how we can answer that without knowing your shape (short or long waisted, long or short rise, curvy or straight hips, stomach shape, full or flat bum, full or narrow thighs, etc.).

      Plus, if you’ve worn closely fitting pants or skinnies for the last decade or more, then it’s possible that anything that is loose at all will feel baggy to you in comparison to what you’re used to. My suggestion would be to try them out and see.

    • Anon

      The proportions look off to me, like in 10 years they’ll be the fashion “don’t” on the next What Not To Wear. They’re trendy though, so embrace it while you can if you like it.

      • Anon - OP

        OP here. I agree. I tried on the Horton Pant from MMLaFleur and loved them except they have a 33.5″ inseam I think and were a bit too long on me, so would need tailoring. Their groin area seemed less baggy than these Everlane versions. Not sure if anyone has seen a perfect pair.

    • Trish

      These pants are for Zendaya and Zendaya only. Well, maybe Cher and Taylor Swift, too. They are not made for the average body!

    • Nesprin

      I love me a wide leg pant and still wear mine from the last time they were fashionable, but the ones with front pleats, and in steam pockets, and no shaping on the back just aren’t flattering to my hips.

      Am hoping since we’re retreading the early nineties that we’ll get back to good wide leg pants in a few years.

  9. Anon8

    Thanks to those who recommended The Wardrobe Concept for figuring out your color season. I finally went through all the steps the other day and found out I’m a soft summer. Suddenly it makes sense why I always gravitate towards neutrals and why peachy hair color looks terrible on me (despite loving in in concept). I’m so excited to have this knowledge in my pocket next time I’m clothing shopping.

    Anybody have other game-changers that help you look and feel your best?

    • anon

      – Invest in a coat, shoes, purses, and jewelry that make you look fabulous. If one of these things is off it derails an otherwise nice outfit. Plus they look great even if you’re bloated, tired, or not feeling confident that day. Personally I love Nadri earrings.
      – Drink 8 glasses of water per day. Your skin looks brighter, it prevents food cravings, and your body just feels better.
      – Embrace small rituals that bring you joy. I’m a tea person so I created a little tea station in my kitchen. I have a pretty display with all my tea boxes and an assortment of oversized mugs in cheerful colors. It’s a small thing but it makes early mornings more enjoyable.

    • Shelle

      I just did this too and found out I’m a deep winter. Wow what a difference! The right colors can really make your skin glow.

    • Anonymous

      I have found the Kibbe body type concept useful in explaining why certain silhouettes do and do not work for me.

      • anon

        I like the idea, but find it so confusing! I feel like I’m a mix of three different things. By now, I have a fairly good idea of what works for me even if I can’t quite name it.

    • anon

      Hey there, fellow soft summer! It definitely explained a lot, and why I look more alive in muted colors vs. brights. Sometimes I wish I didn’t have that knowledge, haha, but it does make a big difference.

    • Anon

      Hi! I’m a soft summer too. Most of us who fall into soft summer have some autumn, some summer characteristics. This is helpful because we can wear gold and silver jewelry (rose gold is particularly good) and we can borrow some of the colors from the soft autumn palette.

      This is helpful when shopping because our summer colors are easier to find, not surprisingly, in summer clothes.

      The blues and greens in the soft autumn palette serve us well in winter. I also like the burgundies.

      Enjoy!!

        • Anon

          Good point!

          Soft summer Anon here again

          Over the years as my size has drifted I’ve moved away from black. I still have plenty, but I don’t need to buy more.

          My base colors are navy and gray – lighter gray in the summer, charcoal in the winter. I wear color near my face either in my top or my jacket/third piece.

          My accent colors tend to be – weird blue/greens, there’s a whole spectrum there, deep greens in winter (muted is hard to find but they’re out there), burgundies as mentioned above, plum in winter, orchid to lavender in summer, and some rose shades. The greens and blues are really best on me personally because I like them, and because I have those soft summer gray blue eyes that reflect shades of blue and green so those colors tend to “match” my eyes.

    • Coach Laura

      Funny – so many soft summers here, when I think summer is the rarest season. I fought it for years because I have strawberry blond/reddish haired siblings and my hair at age 60+ still has what I think of as reddish highlights. I thought I was an autumn. But I look terrible in most greens, yellows and orange and look like death in mustard etc. and my skin sings in soft blues, purples, pinks and greens. And I love that I can wear gold as well as silver, especially for necklaces.

  10. Ribena

    Update – I mentioned a few weeks ago that I had been brave and made a doctor’s appointment to talk about my mental health. I now have a prescription for fluoxetine (Prozac) and another follow up appointment in a couple of weeks for a checkup. Fingers crossed it helps

    • Cb

      Well done, Ribena! I did the same a few years back and felt better almost immediately, I think just the acknowledgement I was really struggling helped. I’m starting to feel the SAD creep in and need to take proactive steps to keep myself on an even keel this winter.

    • Anon8

      High five!! That’s such a huge step. As someone who started an SSRI earlier this year, I’m excited for you. It’s made a huge difference for me.

    • ANON

      I started the same med in August and definitely felt tons better by my 3 week follow up. Hoping for similar results for you!

    • Anon

      I’m better now, but I really struggled with PPD when my kids were little. I think finally talking about it with my doctor helped more than the actual medication! Good for you.

  11. Anon

    I reconnected with a friend from HS a few years ago, and we chat on a regular basis via Facebook chat. A few days ago he revealed that he is pro-life and thinks abortion should be illegal. His reasoning: he was adopted and is glad he wasn’t aborted. I’m seeing red. I respectfully posed some hypothetical questions that he had truly never considered and he’d said he would think about it. He is disabled and lives with/depends on his wealthy parents, so he is extremely sheltered and child-like. Part of me wants to never speak to him again. Part of me wants to try to change his mind, because it seems no one else has tried. I guess I’m just so disappointed in the reasoning, so self-centered for an issue that literally has zero impact on him but is life or death than others. And this man lives in Florida so his vote counts 1000x more than my solid blue state’s. I’m sad I may lose a friend over this. And I’m raging that so many men are like this. Also, I was friends with his girlfriend in HS and I know he never used protection.

    • Anon

      I think you did the right thing by posing some respectful questions he’d never thought of. I’d probably hang in there for a bit and see if he’s truly open to discussion, and then I’d have some discussions with him (respectfully and in a way that could actually get him to soften or change his stance).

      But you’re also right that it’s frustrating and self centered to see the world in his way. It’s not your burden to change everyone’s mind. For me, I’d feel a little hope that he seems to actually be thinking about it. But if he becomes a mansplainer or totally closed off, I honestly probably wouldn’t talk to him much after. Right or wrong, it’s hard for me to interact on a deep level with someone who doesn’t care if I literally die.

    • Anon

      Can you re-read what you wrote? He was adopted. He gets a facet of this in a way that you will never understand. Also, he is probably well-aware that people abort for disabling fetal anomalities all the time — >90% of fetuses with Down Syndrome are aborted now.

      He gets an opinion, but only if it matches yours?

      • anon

        This 100%. He DOES view this as a life or death matter. His view is different than yours. He has a perspective from a loved experience that you cannot have. It sounds like he discussed this with you respectfully, so I’m not sure what more you want. Other than to make everyone in the country think the same as you. Also icky to looking down on him because he depends on his parents…he is disabled.

        • Anonymous

          I’m not sure how “if my mom had aborted me, I wouldn’t be here” is a lived experience that differs from any other person’s. I could say the same, as could you. Let’s listen to women, not
          former fetuses, when we need perspectives on forcing women to give birth.

      • Anonymous

        Yeah but his perspective doesn’t mean he gets to impose his will on all the women in America

        just like your religious belief that it’s murder should not count for legislative action.

        God gave us safe abortion medicines so women didn’t have to die of sepsis, ectopic pregnancies, and more. God gave us cancer pills and rheumatoid pills (that may be abortifacents) so people didn’t have to suffer with those treatments (and birth control to make sure they don’t risk a baby with risky drugs).

        It’s like in Handmaid’s tale when Serena tells June and her husband that “your daughter is with loving, caring parents [religious fascist nuts in Gilead who kidnapped her] – who am I to question God’s will?”

        • anon

          I’m not religious at all so I’m not sure why you took that route. The counterpoint to your argument would be that why should your perspective be forced upon all unborn humans in America? There is a fairly obvious counterpoint to that which I hope you can argue without talking about religion.

          • Anon

            Because her perspective isn’t forcing women to get abortions. It’s just making sure that certain health care options are preserved.

      • Anon

        “He gets a facet of this in a way that you will never understand.”

        Uhhhhhhhhhh nope.

      • Anon

        Disabled children are at risk for being killed by their own parents after they’re born (look up disabled filicide and caregiver murder). This is often framed in the media as “mercy” killing on the basis of disability and nothing else.

        Right now there are people advocating for medically assisted dying for disabled children (where the parent, not the child, would be the one who consents).

        I don’t agree with this guy, but I think there needs to be some listening on both sides of this issue.

    • anon

      I mean, you can decide to cut off conversation with someone who has a different opinion but has been willing to consider points you raised. The odds he’ll change his mind are pretty low if you do that.

    • Anon

      Subject matter aside, I’m personally not that into huge time investments in virtual relationships. It’s one thing to stay in touch with friends who love elsewhere that you still see regularly and another to just have a modern day pen pal. If you’re not vibing, why keep investing in this?

    • Trish

      Is there a litmus test for friends? I just can’t imagine everyone agreeing with me on everything.

      • theguvnah

        For me it is. There’s “not agreeing on everything” which and then there’s “don’t see me as a full human being with bodily autonomy and want men in power to control my body.” That’s a line I, personally, could not accept from a “friend.”

    • Vicky Austin

      I don’t think a disabled man who was adopted at birth has incurred no impact from the national conversation around abortion. Maybe you’re not the only one who has something to learn here.

      • Vicky Austin

        Oops – meant to say maybe he’s not the only one with something to learn. *break for coffee*

      • Anonymous

        I disagree. His take is not nuanced, original or particularly interesting.

        If you’ve never considered “but maybe a disabled man’s right to exist should trump a woman’s bodily autonomy” then by all means, discuss and learn. But if you’ve done any thinking at all about reproductive rights you’ve probably already considered and rejected his point of view.

        • anon

          The OP’s level of shock and horror that a disabled adopted person might have these views actually does kind of suggest that she hasn’t thought about it, though…

    • pugsnbourbon

      People don’t respond to facts. They respond to stories. I’ve flipped my parents and a few other friends by sharing articles about people who got abortions before Roe, those who have had to travel long distances/spend hundreds to access care, etc.
      As a clinic escort I did get asked/yelled at a lot “aren’t you glad your mother didn’t abort you?!?!” We didn’t engage but a) I love my mother and would never want her to have a child she didn’t want/couldn’t care for and b) I would not care because I would not exist.

      • pugsnbourbon

        Sorry – I should clarify that I don’t share these stories with them directly via chat or messaging, I just share them on my main feed.

      • anon

        Pugs, have you ACTUALLY changed their opinions? Or are they just telling you that so they can stop any more debates about the topic?

        • pugsnbourbon

          Maybe! I believe my parents when they tell me I helped change their minds, and my brother, and a couple friends from high school and college. Like I said, I don’t share these things with people directly, just on my feed. I’m pretty open about my beliefs and assume at this point anyone who doesn’t want to see it has unfollowed, unfriended or muted me.

    • Anon

      Excluding people with different views is how we have wound up in so many parallel echo chambers. If you are OK being part of the problem, by all means, cut him off. If you can dwell in a place of discomfort, you may both be able to learn from each other. Even if you never change, you will appreciate something about the other side (for both of you).

    • Anon

      Am I correct in inferring from your post that this is the only pro-life person you’ve ever had a friendship with? Your anger and surprise seem out of proportion to the realization that millions – billions, even – of people are pro-life. Being sheltered works both ways.

      • Anon

        I was just about to say this. A full 40% of the population of the US is pro-life and that does not even get into global levels. While I am not one of them, I recognize that it is not the lunatic fringe.

        Also – can we please stop with “they want women to DIE”. Yes – many of the laws as currently written are horrific and little thought was given to the real issues of women’s health. But would you be happy with a national law that said we only allow abortion if continuing the pregnancy poses a risk to the life (but not the mental health) of the mother or if the fetus is not viable but for no other reason? I suspect the answer is no. This argument is as dishonest as the right-to-lifer’s “they want to abort full term, healthy pregnancies” late term abortion nonsense.

        • Anon

          Disagree that it’s the same. Women don’t just die in instances where the pregnancy is threatening their life. They also die trying to get illegal, back-alley abortions for non-life-threatening pregnancies. Your hypothetical law may help in the first instance, but not in the second, and that’s what makes it not acceptable.

        • anonshmanon

          As you say, many of the laws currently written don’t consider the mother’s health. It’s fair to point this out, since apparently some voters and representatives who advocated for this now feel like this is not the outcome they had in mind, and they do in fact make exceptions for life and health of the mother. In my opinion, focusing on this aspect, comes from an intention of finding common ground with others, who hold different views than myself. While I might personally want more reproductive choices for women, talking about physical health is the smallest common denominator.
          While 39% of people see themselves on the pro-life side (if you only offer two sides), it becomes a lot more nuanced when you look more closely. Only 13% believe abortion should be illegal under all circumstances, and support for choice is near 80% when the life of the mother is in danger or in the case of rape.
          https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

    • anon

      I can understand the disappointment, and good on you for posing some questions, but given his background, he is going to believe what he believes.

    • Anonymous

      I made a conscious decision to invest in a cordial relationship with a person in my orbit whom I originally assumed to have views diametrically opposed to my own. I forced myself to have conversations with her instead of running the other way, and at first listened more than I shared my own views. It turned out that we share many core values, despite the fact that I still can’t figure out why she voted for the orange man or is an anti-masker. I never would have guessed any of this if I hadn’t been open to real conversation. My unlikely friend ended up nominating me for an opportunity that may allow me to make a real difference in an area where our values and passions align. You never know what will come of genuine dialogue with someone whose views don’t perfectly align with your own.

    • Anon

      If I tried to change the opinions of everyone I know who has a different opinion than me it would be my full time job! And, if I unfriended everyone who has a different opinion than me I would have no friends!!!

    • Anonymous

      You should not talk to him anymore. Not because of his beliefs but because your paternalistic judgment of him shows that you’re too close minded to develop a real friendship with him.

      • Anonymous

        Her paternalistic judgment of the dude who wants forced birth. Hahahahaha.

    • Anon

      Many disabled people are sensitive about eugenics right now. Selective abortion isn’t the trigger topic, but “quality of life” triaging in 2020, ongoing public health attitudes (including the acceptance of high transmission rates and the apathy towards developing a neutralizing vaccine booster), “did they have comorbidites?”, “lockdown is a fate worse than death for me but okay indefinitely for you,” and the anti-vaccination and anti-masking movements have been making people very twitchy.

      It’s still selfish to focus on one’s own predicament and not hear others, and most disabled people get this and are pro-choice. But there is a broader context when disabled people assert that they’re glad they were born and exist in this world.

    • LaurenB

      So don’t speak to him again. It’s not like he’s been a part of your life. You’re not going to change his mind. If this is a deal-breaker issue for a friendship for you, then so be it.

  12. Anon

    Somehow the pandemic started without me knowing how to use Google Meet / Google Hangouts and Microsoft Teams (like I can use them, but I can’t set up things in them). We have a dial-in for work calls, which I’ve used b/c everyone hates camera-on and this puts everyone on the same field, but now I need to do something where I have to share a screen and go over a written presentation with the option for others to have cameras on and off and ask questions.

    Is there a good spot on the web to get the basics on this stuff?

    • Cb

      I’d just use the MS Teams help base, there should be a video to show you how to use screenshare etc, but honestly, it’s very self-explanatory. But can you arrange for a test session with a colleague to make sure you are confident ahead of the larger meeting?

      • River bird

        Yeah, I’d schedule a time to run through with a colleague. There’s no substitute for just practicing. Also helps you test lighting, camera position, mic, etc. Also make sure you have all personal stuff closed – different platforms use different methods for sharing (window-by-window vs your whole screen) and I’ve definitely seen chats/docs on a presenters screen that they probably did not mean for me to see.

      • Anonymous

        Do a test run. I use Zoom and Slack huddles all the time with some Teams. I guess I’m never in the browser version of Teams though and having to share. I found this out the hard way on a job interview where I needed to share a presentation and couldn’t figure it out. I am still reeling from embarrassment.

    • Ribena

      Every organisation seems to have the software configured slightly differently so I’d pick a tech savvy person you work with and ask if they can spend some time with you walking you through how to use the tools for this purpose, and buy them a coffee to say thank you/ email their line manager afterwards to say how fantastic they are. I’ve done similar things where colleagues have wanted to see how I get the most out of PowerPoint for example

  13. Cb

    I’ve owed a colleague/pal a book review since July and decided in the spirit of NaNoWriMo to just write the thing. Maybe 4 hours solid work and it’s on someone else’s plate, and I can go off on holiday (just two nights but sans kid!) with one thing off my to do list.

      • Cb

        My plan for the month is to just clear the decks of these projects which are 80% done, so then in December I can do some broader thinking about the book/a new project. I’m an academic so it’s less creativity, more just sitting my butt in the chair and writing.

        • Anon

          That’s excellent.

          I’m trying to use the month to finish editing my manuscript (a novel). It’s creative work to a point, but editing definitely feels less so than the initial drafting.

  14. Anon

    Reactions re affirmative action cases. College people — what is the rationale for legacy admissions? Is it that it ensures the sort of very large donor dollars coming in that result in schools like HYP having giant endowments? Is it like making need-conscious admissions (like these kids can pay full freight, so more $ available for scholarships)? Most schools for which this seems to be a determinative factor could easily fill their slots with very qualified applicants and seem to be rolling in $ already (vs very small regional liberal arts colleges).

    And I kind of getting athletics preferences for football, but just football. Do people really care about the record of the gymnastics team or field hockey? Or should this just be viewed as a fun activity for students (like Model UN). As far as I can tell, alumni never go to anything but football.

    I am guessing that legacy admissions really need to go and that this should be a cut that people recognize levels the playing field for schools that are not hurting for $. And athletics — I am thinking the same thing and am surprised that it’s as prevalent as I’ve read it is.

    • anon

      The rationale for legacy admissions is that legacy families tend to be more engaged as alumni and to give more. It’s not just super high-dollar donations – it applies across the board. Alums give when they feel connected to a school, and alums who have family connections tend to feel more connected. And general alumni giving (vs the huge high-dollar gifts from ultrawealthy families and foundations) is more likely to be unrestricted, and thus available for things like financial aid, support for new programs, etc. So those gifts are particularly important to universities. At least, all of this is my impression as a person who has served on some boards and development-related committees for a university – people who are actual development professionals will know more.

      (I will add that my university has a really large endowment but has made some aggressive commitments to help students avoid undergrad debt that can’t be entirely funded by the endowment given restrictions on how it can be used, and so is heavily dependent on alumni giving and on need-conscious admissions to pay for that. I know there are other institutions in similar situations. It’s not a Harvard or Yale type school, but is a private research university that’s well-regarded – think Emory or Colgate.)

      • Anon

        This exactly. US News measures alumni giving (any dollar amount), so increasing the number of alumni who give helps rankings.

        I will also throw out there: universities want students who want to be there. Between a kid who is going to Hamilton because Amherst rejected him, and a kid going to Hamilton because his parents met there and he bleeds continental blue and bluff, they will take the latter student.

        Counterintuitively, having a massive applicant pool increases the power of legacy admissions. There is no good way to reject 80% or 90% of applicants that is not at least somewhat arbitrary, so the college accepts or rejects students to meet its own needs.

        As a final thought, the use of legacy admissions varies a lot between institutions and even within an institution (e.g. the preferences for the child of a large donor =/= the preferences for the child of the president of the alumni association =/= the preferences of an uninvolved alumni). Some universities require the kid to apply binding ED for legacy to count – they will take legacies who are passionate about the school. Others, like MIT, give minimal preference. Harvard has crazy, crazy legacy preferences.

    • Away Game

      The assumption underlying the question seems to be that the legacy admissions are all uber-wealthy white people. The “white” was certainly true for my (not-Ivy) competitive school two decades ago, but my graduating class was one of the most diverse in my school’s history, and my roommate went to school with a full ride, including stipends for books and incidentals. I support affirmative action and think frankly the legacy students at my alma mater could absolutely help retain diversity. I don’t have a problem with a private university or college deciding some small portion of their incoming class could be made up of an otherwise fully qualified student whose parent went to the school (and clearly has good memories = good for marketing.) Good chance those same parents are viewing a graduates as good hires, supporting interns, etc. Two kids with the same GPA and similar activities/leadership have to be decided in some form or fashion. All other things being equal, it doesn’t bother me that legacy would be a factor. I don’t feel the same about the flagship state public university, but no, not everyone has the “right” to go to Harvard.

      • Seventh Sister

        When I went to an elite women’s college in 90s, there were way, way more non-white students than had attended in the first 100 years or so. The student body was actually majority non-white when I was there – lots of Latinas, Black women, Asian women, Native Americans. It’s probably more economically diverse now, but it was pretty racially diverse for that kind of place at that time.

        The nonwhite alumna from my 90s class are irritated that the push to eliminate legacy admissions is happening just as their own children are applying to college. And I’m with them, though I do think that my college doesn’t place a huge premium on being a legacy and I think legacy status should be a vanishingly small part of the decision-making process.

      • Anon

        I appreciated legacy students at my college. I felt like it strengthened the sense of community, and I appreciated that alum parents were generous with mentorship. Probably it makes a bigger difference at a genuinely small SLAC, but that strong sense of community and culture is part of what draws people to these kinds of schools.

        • Curious

          That’s a good point. Upon reflection, the one legacy I knew at my Ivy was awesome and equally generous with access and mentorship. And he was super smart and well rounded.

    • Anon

      It is slightly out of date, but I recommend the book The Color of Money for a discussion of legacy preferences, athletics preferences and affirmative action, and the interplay of the three.

    • LawDawg

      Legacy admissions are also more likely to attend (already connected) and allow a school to be more selective. The school can admit five unconnected students and only one will attend, but five legacies are all likely to attend. The school can then fill their slots with fewer admits, perpetuating the appearance of selectivity and pushing their rankings higher in US News, etc.

    • Anon

      I’m gonna argue with you on sports admissions. Football is still only men. If they’re going to get preferential admissions based on sport, then it needs to apply equally to women’s sports. That’s what Title 9 is all about.

      • Anon

        And it should be especially true when it comes to scholarship money, but sadly it is not.

      • anonshmanon

        yep, was also thinking of Title IX. Since big donors are pushing the spending on football (show me a university where coaches aren’t the best paid staff), universities must show a similar investment into women’s sports, to avoid lawsuits.

    • Anon

      I didn’t apply to either of my parents’ alma maters (though I did apply to all of my grandparents’ alma maters and was a little annoyed that there was no line for other relatives… both of my mom’s parents, all of her siblings, and 4 of my cousins (and going further back – my great grandfather and great uncles also went there) all went to the same Ivy League school and I was not a legacy because my mom did not go there, even though literally the rest of my family did).

      But, my brother applied to and was rejected from our dad’s college. The SAME DAY my brother was rejected, the school calls my dad asking for a donation. He was like do you really think this is a good time to ask me for money?

      I did end up going to grad school at the same university my brother went to for undergrad, so in the span of a few years we became [insert school here] family.

      • Deedee

        Can’t resist saying, and please take this in the lighthearted spirit I intend… The positive news about the call is that at least the development folks weren’t closely involved in admissions!

    • LaurenB

      Here’s the thing – the *applicant pools for elite colleges are highly skewed towards legacies, certain ethnicities and certain regions of the country. If Harvard alums are so positive about their experiences that their children enthusiastically apply, they could be admitted at a *lower* rate than the populace but still be overrepresented in the Harvard class. Likewise, the Harvard applicant pool is highly skewed towards New England / the Northeast, as well as certain ethnicities. That’s not good or bad, it just is what it is, but Harvard is never going to be “diverse” when hardly any conservatives from Alabama bother applying. (I am, of course, using H as shorthand for elite college.) I did an analysis years ago of the applicant pools of the top 20 universities and top liberal arts colleges. All are skewed towards their home turf, with only a few notable exceptions (Duke and Oberlin).

  15. Google Fail

    Please help, my search skills are failing me. What is it called when a staircase has a landing that is open to two rooms? My old house had a setup where the formal living room had three steps up on to a landing, and then the primary flight of stairs. The family room also had three steps to the *same* landing. It basically made it so that the staircase was accessible from two rooms without having to traverse the entire house to access the stairs. I’m trying to find images of something like this and am completely failing.

  16. Anonymous

    can anyone recommend a good product like Guerlain Meteorites to carry in my purse for touchups? I like a really gentle highlighting/color correcting and non-shinyness.

    • startup lawyer

      One of the hourglass ambient lighting compacts. Really subtle and blurs imperfections

    • Anon

      I like the Chanel regular powder compact. Nice mirror, good powder, and it comes with a flat little powder puff. No one wants to carry around a powder brush.

  17. Anon

    My 7 year old really wants to go to Paris and I’m thinking of taking her during spring break, which is in mid-April. We would do a 5-7 day trip. Does anyone have any recommendations for Paris with a kid — what to do and where to stay — and any side trips we should include? She’s excited for the Eiffel tower and chocolate croissants.

    • Anon

      I love this! 7 is the perfect age for a trip like this. Giverny might be a fun side trip if she likes flowers.

    • Anonymous

      I did this with my then 6 year old about the same time I’d year. We did the Eiffel Tower, a little shopping (I bought an LV bag and she got to eat chocolates and sit at the counter at the department store – fancy!), rode the Ferris wheel and carousel, did a dinner cruise, went to Disney for a day, did for a day, Rodin Museum, D’Orsay, ate lots of croissants. We had a great time and would recommend!

    • Anonymous Canadian

      We did London to Paris on the Eurostar for a few days when one of my guys was about that age. Things they loved: the TRAIN; boat ride on the Seine; hop on, hop off bus, riding the subway; bakery tour (can’t remember where I booked it); picnics in parks and the musee d’illusions, ALL the patisserie and chocolates. See also this article https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/paris-with-kids. Sorry no advice on side trips but it was super fun to take them.

    • Emma

      Dinner a love story has an old post I like, and there’s a more recent article on David Leibovitz’s website

    • Anon

      Go to Versailles. Get one of those skip the line admissions. It’s worth the $

    • Anon

      No suggestions but this is absolutely adorable and I’m jealous of your daughter!

    • Anon

      Not a specific place to go, but you should definitely get her some Madeleine books pre-trip. And maybe get a cute Madeleine hat she can wear to Paris.

      • Anon

        Not to knock OP, because this is lovely and I’m sure will make wonderful memories for her daughter, but I don’t know any 7 year old that wouldn’t jump at the chance to go to Paris with their mom. This isn’t hard. Getting a 13 year old to go to Paris with you might be a different story. :)

    • Anonymous

      Things I enjoyed and remember from trips as a kid her age include:
      – trying the metro, ferry, trolley etc. and seeing a totally different city
      – seeing familiar books and magazines in a different language
      – buying some small souvenirs, and small gifts for my friends
      – sending postcards
      – getting an item of clothing that would remind me of the trip every time I used it, can be as simple as new underwear
      – trying a new activity, like a crafts project or at a kid friendly museum
      – having photographs to look at later
      – eating unfamiliar stuff, can be as easy as a flavor ice cream or gum that doesn’t exist at home
      – trying foreign candy
      – seeing castles and fancy, over-the-top rooms
      – having lots of time to talk to an adult about interesting things

  18. Puffer coat

    Need to replace my Calvin Klein puffer coat as the zipper continually snags, and the cost to replace the zipper is as much as the coat was originally.
    Prefer the ones that stop a bit above the knee. Tapered, slim fitting (not super puffy). Warm but not suffocating (I have a longer, heavier puffer for ultra cold days here in Minnesota so this one I’d wear when it is above 10 degrees). This is for wearing to work, errands on weekends, walks with friends etc. Budget up to $300. Prefer a decent quality one I can keep for years.
    What brands should I consider?

    • Anon

      This. In general I have the same issue with my Calvin Klein but I still love it. I try to be careful with the zipper or just use the buttons.

    • Anon

      Patagonia – women’s nano puff parka. Last year, they replaced my zipper for free on my (purchased used) coat that is 5 years old (for me – unsure of total age). Sometimes they require you to pay for the replacement, but they did not charge me for the repair.

    • pugsnbourbon

      Have you checked out the offerings at Eddi Bauer? The Sun Valley parka gets rec’d here. The MicroTherm line looks pretty sleek, too.

    • Curious

      Honestly, I love my 32 degrees puffer from Costco, though the fit is a little bit less flattering than the Calvin Klein one.

  19. anon

    We are thinking of meeting with an estate planning attorney. What are some specific books or websites we should read in preparation? I would like to educate myself on what we could possibly discuss rather than spending an hour asking him “so what should we do?” Neither of us come from money, so this is all new to us. Some of the senior partners at DH’s job have worked with this person and have encouraged us to do some estate planning while we are young (mid 30s, 2 kids).

    • Anon

      Honestly, I wouldn’t do this. I promise your situation is one that this person has experience with. They will know what questions to ask and what the various options are. Just let them lead the conversation; that will be most efficient. During the meeting, they will probably tell you what the options are and explain the pros and cons of each. It should be a conversation for sure. Ask as many questions as you have during the meeting! The lawyer will be able to explain in concrete terms that apply to you rather than theoretical situations you’re likely to find on a website.

      If you feel like you’re not being heard or if you want to Google something after, then my recommendation is different. But I really would recommend letting the person you’re paying do their job and take the lead!

      • NYCer

        +1. Coming from a T&E lawyer, you really don’t need to study anything for this intake meeting or suggest estate planning / gifting strategies that you have read about. As a later poster suggested, it is a good idea to have a handle on your assets, but beyond that, your lawyer will talk to you through the rest.

        • Anon

          +1, also coming for a T&E lawyer. Just have a handle on your assets and if there is any unique family situation you want to address. The lawyer should be able to walk you through everything and answer all your questions. No need to read anything in advance.

    • Anon

      If your parents are still alive, they should get an estate plan in place. Otherwise, it is headaches for everyone.

      I’m not sure why you would do reading on this subject – you are paying the attorney to review your information and draw up an estate plan. A good estate planning attorney will have you fill out a worksheet before coming in, detailing ages, kids, assets, home ownership, life insurance, etc. From there, it’s basically filling in the blanks on appropriate forms (will, pour over trust, if you’re very wealthy an irrevocable trust, health care proxy, DPOA, realty trust, etc.). You pay the lawyer to know what fits your needs.

      So much of this is dependent on the laws of your state that… just don’t go in there with ideas from a book, please.

    • Anonymous

      Agreed with previous posters that you don’t need to research in advance of meeting with your attorney, but the book Beyond the Grave by Jeffrey Condon is good for learning about estate planning in general.

    • Anon

      The best thing you can do is have a very good understanding of all your assets and your net worth along with who you name as executor, beneficiary, trustees, and guardian. Double check all beneficiary designations on accounts, retirement accounts, life insurance, etc. That will make the process much easier for you.

      • Anon

        Thanks everyone for the input. This is the type of advice I was looking for. Literally don’t know what we are supposed to bring to a mtg with one, nor did he give us a worksheet to fill out in advance (so maybe look for someone else?), nor do I know 90% of the terms poster at 12:31 said. The initial consult is quite expensive if we decide not to go with him, which is why I don’t want to waste my time.

        • NYCer

          I work at a biglaw firm in NYC in T&E, and we never give a worksheet to our clients to fill out in advance. You truly do not need to bring anything with you to this meeting.

          • NYCer

            Caveat… If you have existing Wills or trusts, you should bring copies of those.

    • Anon

      I agree that this isn’t the kind of situation you need to read a book for.

    • TrixieRuby

      I would give some thought as to who would be guardians for your children should you both get hit by a bus. That is the toughest part of estate planning for a young family.

  20. Anonymous

    I need advice on who to go to for tax prep and advice. I have always used turbotax, but I recently started receiving money from a trust and I want to talk to an expert to make sure I’m reporting it correctly. How do I find the right person?

    • Anon

      I’d ask friends or colleagues about who they use as a CPA for this and go to that person.

    • Anon

      Someone on this board recommended tl;dr tax prep to me. I’m in my third year of using them and happy with their service. https://www.tldraccounting.com/

      It’s all online. I upload my receipts to a portal and ask my questions that way as well. They provide the tax return with a video explanation, which to me was better than a live meeting because I could refer to it again.

      I had phone meetings with the head accountant the first year to figure out things like my self employed IRA etc that were included in my basic pricing. I’m sure they’d do the same for your trust questions.

      • anon for toni

        Toni used to be a teammate of mine prior to going solo, and she is awesome. It is so great seeing her firm be recommended here!

  21. Gift recs

    I’m starting to think about what to get my admin assistant for a holiday gift. I can totally go generic (edible gift basket), but I do know she’s very into running. We do have one of those specialty running stores in town that sells shoes and clothing. Would a gift certificate to that be appropriate? Or is it too risky that it’s not going to be what she uses? Looking for something in the $200-400 range.

    • anon

      I think you should get her a token gift from the running shop (cute hat, etc.) and then give the rest in cash.

    • Anon

      I’m a runner (not a huge runner like she is though) and I think that’d be a great gift. It’s a free pair of shoes, and even if the store doesn’t carry what she likes they should be able to order a pair for her. The only issue would be if they are affiliated with one brand of shoe and have some agreement that they only sell that shoe, but that’s not as common. As a huge runner, she’ll go through a few pairs of shoes a year.

      Aside from shoes, she can treat herself to running clothing, socks, and gear. I love my fancy running socks, but almost never buy them for myself because they’re expensive so a gift card would be a great justification for that.

    • Anon

      I am a big runner and would LOVE a gift certificate to a running store. I spend about $800 a year just on basic running gear (sneakers, shorts, leggings, sports bras, gels).

    • anon for this

      I used to get my similarly-minded assistant a gift card to Athleta, and she loved it.

      • Anon

        FWIW, I would prefer the money to a running store over Athleta because shoes are $150 or more a pop and she’s probably replacing them twice a year, if not more. Whereas my Athleta leggings are $90 a pair and will last 5+ years.

        • Anon

          Counterpoint: I am the person at 2:21 PM and have literally never bought anything from Athleta. A $200 gift card there would be wasted on me. However, $200 to Marathon Sports or Fleet Feet would be anything from running sneakers to Noxgear to gels to Feetures socks.

    • Pompom

      Gosh, it’s been a day and I’m reading this late, but my brain saw “edible gift basket” as a gift basket full of edibles. The fun kind. ha!

  22. Daily meditation calendar?

    Does anyone have a favourite page a day calendar with meditations? I did an origami a day the past two years and loved it but am a bit over it at this point, would love to get a daily meditation at my desk to start my day in a meaningful way . But most ones I see are some kind of pseudo-self care or witticisms or proverbs, not looking for that, I would like specifically meditation prompts. Also, no religious ones please.

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