Thursday’s Workwear Report: Three-Quarter-Sleeve Essentials Icon Shirt

316 Comments

1. Any feedback as to the fit and quality of Nora Gardner dresses as compared with MMLF?

2. I am hesitating between Tumi Carson and Brooklyn in the Voyager line. I like the exterior pockets of the Carson but also the separate shoe compartment on the Brooklyn. Which one would you get? Does anyone have experience with either bag? Are they indeed as durable and high quality as people say?

   1. I don’t have those exact bags, but I have a Tumi tote and it is a workhorse. It was such a great investment. Still going strong after 6+ years of abuse.

      1. +1 to this. I have a beige and a black voyager tote that I can’t even remember when I bought (2012-2013?) and they still look like new.

   2. What are you planning to use it for? I think that makes a difference in what bag to get (e.g. business travel vs leisure travel vs daily carry).

      My Tumi experience has not been so great. I had their luggage (hard side carry on and rolling checked bag) and the checked bag looked 10 years old after a single international trip. Yes, I know that’s the fault of rough bag handling, but for that money, it should be tougher. On the carry on, the handle got wobbly pretty fast, and the wheels aren’t nearly as good as some other options now available.

      They no longer have a lifetime guarantee, so I just don’t see Tumi as worth it.

   3. Tumi holds up better than anything else I’ve used. I wouldn’t buy anything else. Our whole family has luggage sets and I’ve used their backpacks and shoulder bags for daily commuting. In 10 years, the only problem was my husband (a former road warrior) had a zipper break once, and they replaced it quickly at no charge. It’s expensive but worth it. My only complaint is that sometimes their pieces can be a bit heavy.

3. Low stakes question. I’ve been taking yoga classes at a studio recently that is heated. It’s not hot yoga, but it’s definitely very warm yoga. I noticed that the men in class often wear only shorts, while the women never have shorts on but typically have capri or full length tights and tank tops. Is there a reason for performance that women don’t wear shorts? I feel like it would be much more comfortable in as few clothes as possible, but maybe I’m missing something.

   1. If we’re doing tree pose, I find it easier to stick my foot to my leggings than to my sweaty legs ;)

      1. +1. Same goes for some twists and arm balances – the sweatiness makes me slip out of them.

   2. Are there fewer options for tight-legged shorts for women? Like, leggings but above the knee? If it were me I wouldn’t want to buy something new because I have like 20 pairs of capri and full-length leggings.

      1. I buy a lot of leggings from barre3 and yes, there are tons of options for the capri or full length but not a lot for shorts-length. I actually did buy a few of the shorts-length for super-hot days, but it’s not terribly flattering.

      2. Yoga shorts exist.

      3. I’ve seen some good bike shorts on Fabeltics, they have an 8″ inseam so, at least for short women, they hit just above the knee. It’s not a flattering look, I look like a football player honestly, but they’re definitely perfect for hot summer days when full-length leggings would be too much.

   3. I don’t like the stickiness on my legs (like when you’re doing a forward fold and can feel your legs) so wear full length leggings.

   4. I wear tights because bare thighs on my yoga mat = irritation. I could do knee-length bike shorts but they are not flattering on me. I would never wear baggy shorts because I find loose flappy clothing annoying during yoga.

   5. The reason is that I don’t feel like shaving my legs. Also I don’t find yoga pants to be hot.

      1. Combination of this and not liking the combo of mat texture + sticky-sweaty legs.

   6. I find certain poses hurt my knees and like having something over them. Even the tiny, tiny layer of cloth helps some, so I wear capri-length leggings in the summer.

   7. I don’t like tight shorts (like bike shorts) as I feel too exposed, but “regular” athletic shorts feel like they don’t move with my body as well as leggings or are constricting my movement because the fabric isn’t stretchy, and depending on my position can also make me feel exposed. That’s just a personal preference for me– I totally wish I could be one of those women who is confident enough to work out in just a sports bra but that’s just not me. I also don’t love having my bare legs on my mat, but that’s not too big of a deal. Also, no leg shaving! But you should absolutely do whatever you feel best in.

      I think men wear shorts a lot because a) their shorts are already loose and baggy so it doesn’t impede their movement and b) they’re reluctant to wear leggings (their loss, IMO).

   8. I do wear biker or yoga shorts and a sports bra often, but I also only own four pairs of shorts and like 10-15 pairs of leggings, so if you randomly saw me in a class, I’d be more likely to be wearing leggings. But I also think running shorts are more common for women than biker shorts (except these past couple seasons), and running shorts aren’t my favorite to do yoga in bc they don’t move as well and there’s too much of a risk of flashing someone. I think it also depends on where you live, the demographics of the class, and the type of studio. I live in a college town and many of the trendier hot studios are filled with younger women in sports bras and shorts, but the more traditional studios here tend to have an older crowd with more conservative dress/less trendy

   9. Cap hill style posted these yoga shorts a couple of days ago.

      https://www.amazon.com/CRZ-YOGA-Workout-Athletic-Mountain/dp/B08DR5S6PG?dchild=1&keywords=crz%2Byoga%2Bshorts&psr=PDAY&qid=1624387212&s=prime-day&sr=1-11&linkCode=sl1&tag=caphillstyle2-20&linkId=c2b6b428b3092236f2f643d2b76de7c6&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl&th=1

4. I have an A-game in picking out summer resort-y dresses for evening drinks. Why? Do I go to resorts? Do I have evenings free for drinks? I seem to have a very, very aspirational closet (mentally, it is good to suggest that I have a headspace free of being on the struggle bus 24/7 over the past 18 months; it makes the me leaving the house by 7 for camp drop-off and then trudging across the city to actually finally OMG so happy return to my office in a shift that is thankfully forgiving).

   1. Lately I have also been drawn to a lot of dresses for my aspirational nonexistent resort lifestyle. It probably has something to do with being trapped in the same room for 20 hours a day over the past 15 months, still with no end in sight because husband and I are both likely to be pushed to WFH forever. I think I am going to give in and buy just one of these dresses for the more realistic purpose of hanging out with family at the local breweries and wineries this summer.

      1. +1 for wanting clothes like these for a lifestyle I don’t have!

   2. Feel free to share! I need a few fun dresses for evening drinks!

      1. I’ll go: Farm Rio Macaw mini-dress. Yes, it ‘s low-cut. Usually I hate this. But I do not care — it is so pretty and it is clearly fun-wear vs office-wear.

         Also, they are spendy but anything from Sue Sartor. I just drool over the Paloma and Hamilton styles when I have time to kill. It’s what I do now that I hate social media — scroll through pretty caftans.

         1. Aaaaaaugh you just reminded me about the Sue Sartor dress I have been coveting. I went back to check on it and it’s sold out. Boo.

            1. Which one? My heart may about to be sad but my wallet may be about to breathe a sign of relief.

            2. Set and forget auto-search on secondhand sites! Out of sight, out of mind until you get a pleasant surprise.

            3. Adelaide Mini Kaftan Sheath Dress in Sky Ink Sage Blooms. I was going to look into custom sizing because one size fits all is usually too big. I was planning to wear it with boots as pictured in the fall and with sandals in the summer.

         2. Farm Rio stuff is so great – it’s wildly different from my utilitarian daily style (and also wildly out of my budget). It’s fun to scroll through.

            1. My usual default style is very austere and on a gray/black palette (and it’s not a cool version of that; it’s how Eddie Monsoon would ruin a good office goth vibe). Farm Rio is such a refresher.

            2. I’d never heard of Farm Rio until today and I am now obsessed!

            3. I’ve seen this brand and wondered if it is nice quality or IG trickery. Happy to hear from real life consumers!

            4. Oops. Farm Rio was not the brand I was thinking. Their clothes are beautiful!

         3. Ohh I’ve recommended Sue Sartor here before (they are so worth it, btw, gorgeous quality dresses and email her for out of stock things and other sizes, it’s a small company and I’ve had good luck that way). But thank you for the Farm Rio recommendation- I’ve seen them in my insta feed but didn’t know if they were legit.

   3. Hi pick one out for me! I’m a tall 18W and I look best in muted cool tones.

5. This shirt is kind-of lovely. Still, I am not going back to ironing on a regular basis. Also, 3/4 sleeves. I run cold, so I either need short close sleeves or something that is long and buttoned so that I can shimmy a jacket over it. I feel like 3/4 is a no-man’s-land length unless you know you’ll wear it as an outermost layer or just with a giant scarf if you get a chill.

   1. Completely agree!

      Also – 3/4 sleeves and a v-shaped neckline that doesn’t button all the way up ? “Cutesy-ladie’s-not-a-shirt” bingo. (I don’t mean that in a good way).

      1. I am a smallish woman and clothes that are cut like men’s clothes make me look ridiculous, like a little kid playing dress-up. The 3/4 sleeves and v-neck would actually make this piece much more wearable for me and not cutesy at all.

         1. Same. 3/4 sleeves help prevent a shirt from overwhelming my small frame. Rolled up long sleeves just never work for me- they’re either too bulky or they don’t stay rolled. V necks look good on me because there isn’t a ton of fabric around my neck, which sometimes gives me a turtle look

         2. Totally agree. I am always hunting for exactly these features.

         3. Agreed! I’m 5″2 and 105 lbs and long sleeves make me look dowdy. Short sleeves seem less formal and I get cold. 3/4 are perfect because they can let me avoid a cardigan or jacket (both of which come with a host of issues if you’re my size) and the sleeves hit at a place that just looks good on my frame. 3/4 sleeves for life!

      2. I have given up on proper necklines on this style of shirt. I just resign myself to adding a snap by hand.

   2. I love 3/4 and bracelet sleeves. Fabric around my wrists annoys me, so even in winter I roll up or push up all full-length sleeves. I won’t buy sweaters without ribbed cuffs for this reason.

   3. 3/4 fills a niche for me in that I’m required to dress business-y but also work in a manufacturing lab that can involve getting dirty. It’s nice to toss on a lab coat and know my cuffs will stay clean without fussing with rolling my sleeves.

      1. I visit suppliers on occasion and always find myself stymied with how to dress professionally with steel toed boots. I refuse to do kackis and polos, they don’t work for my body anyway. The men live in that uniform.
         I’ve taken to wearing jeans and tops from Royal Robins or the more sedate colors of Columbia button down camp shirts. That seems to hit the sweet spot of collared shirt with breathable, easy to wash and dry fabric. Put together and no ironing required.

         1. Good tip, thanks! I am a very curvy short person, so I also hate khakis with polos. I look like a dumpy camp counselor.

         2. I love the idea of the Columbia camp shirt with jeans and my steel toe boots! Polos always look terrible on me too. I have a pair of safety toe booties that are pretty versatile, but I have been eyeing the ones from Xena Workwear “Gravity Safe Shoe” for my next safety shoe purchase. With the allowance I get for safety shoes for work, they’re not bad at $170.

   4. I have learned the hard way. No more 3/4 length sleeves for me! They end up all bunched up under the sleeves of my blazer. Every single time.
      Also agree on the v-neck. I seem to remember having a shirt like that in 2000 and I do NOT need to revisit that era.

      1. Yes — why are sleeves so d*mn narrow?!

   5. I love 3/4 length, it works a lot better with my proportions than full length (or even worse – balloon sleeves!). I run cold, but always roll up sleeves even in winter with several layers of wool. The worst sleeves are elbow length, and short sleeves that hit at full bust.

      I never wear white shirts, but can remember having a lot of similar ones in black in the early noughties. Prefer shirts with a lot more drape now, like silk. Still not white ones, though. My fantasy self wears flowy linen and whites for summer, but in real life never.

   6. I love 3/4 length sleeves, and I also love capri and cropped pants, even though I’m told they make women look shorter. So what? I’m 5’4″ no matter how you slice it. Also, I hate having to buy pants and get them hemmed!

      1. I love 3/4 length sleeves – I’m very self conscious about my upper arms and they give me the needed coverage

   7. I love 3/4 sleeves – the proportions are perfect for my frame!

      1. Me, too! I have T Rex arms so they are the only ones that aren’t way too long!

   8. Check out Ann Mashburn, she makes button downs in a fabric designed to get a little wrinkled (can’t recall what it’s called, but it’s thicker and more akin to a chambray) and they fit gorgeously. Expensive but worth it, imho. Same w Naomi Nomi.

   9. I cannot wear white shirts. I have bought and donated so many because they’re supposed to be a staple. I’m broad of shoulder and bust and by the time I fit there, the rest of me looks like a potato. I could probably make it work with tailoring but I just look so much better in, say, a navy scoop neck knit I will just stick with that.

6. Sell me on your favorite water bottle! (the one I had before is currently ossifying in the office I haven’t returned to at a job I no longer have in a city I no longer live in, abandoned since March 2020)

   I’m overwhelmed by the choices and could use some help narrowing it down. Swell, Zojirushi, Takeya, Hydroflask… I looked at Wirecutter’s recommendations, but I’d still rather hear from all of you. Any quirks about the one you have that you wish you’d known about? Anything you absolutely love you will make a must-have in your next purchase?

   *yes, I know I have too much time on my hands and do not need to optimize every purchase, but I find a strange satisfaction in it*

   1. I like the giant wide-mouth Hydroflask for hiking and the S’well for workouts and daily use. The narrow neck on the S’well makes it easier to drink from in a moving vehicle, while walking, etc.

   2. Well, I went to REI during their sale and bought a pretty basic Nalgene water bottle with a thunderbird on it. Turns out, it’s the “outside with pride” water bottle, which isn’t a problem (I’m not LGBTQ but work at a local Pride sponsor, no one has suggested that the water bottle is not appropriate for someone who is merely an ally) but which suggests that maybe I should wear my glasses for shopping. At any rate, don’t make it hard — the wide-mouth ones are easy to fill up and can just be thrown in the dishwasher. I hate all of the water bottles we own that are complicated or delicate.

      1. I am a Nalgene devotee and have been for years.

         I prefer to drink room temp water though. If you like cold, I’d suggest something insulated. I have hydro flasks, clean kanteens and yetis that I use for coffee. I bike to work so I don’t use travel mugs – these are all screw tops like water bottles. They’re all great. Yeti is my favorite because (like the Nalgene) it’s dishwasher safe.

   3. Under Armour Dominate. Not pretty or cute, but I left it in my car in blazing sun and still had ice in the water 7 hours later. I’ve thrown it in a tote bag with no regard of up or down and no leaks to be seen.

      My daughter loves her YETI rambler and highly recommends it.

   4. I have the Thermos hydration bottle that Wirecutter recommends. Lightweight plastic, flip-open top, easy to wash. I’ve had it for years and it’s held up well.

   5. Stainless steel Contigo Autoseal Chill, because it has a leakproof seal even if upside down in my bag, has a carrying handle on top, is drinkable with one hand (no unscrewing a lid), and doesn’t have a straw to get weird and gunky. It is also taller and slimmer than my Yeti, which means it fits nicely in more cupholders.

      Only con is that while the lid can go in the dishwasher, the body should not because otherwise the insulated cavity will eventually fill with water. But handwashing is not something I find onerous so this is a fair trade.

   6. I have purchased roughly a million water bottles in the journey to find the perfect one. My main criteria is no leaking when it’s in my bag. I have found that unless it’s a screwcap, they all leak. Even the ones that claim not to leak. Unfortunately drinking out of a screwcap is annoying because you have to unscrew it every time you want a sip, but c’est la vie. So for commuting/on the go I use a Hydroflask or Swell with a screwcap and at home I use a Yeti tumbler with a straw.

      1. Oh and stainless steel is key. Plastic doesn’t keep your water cold and it gets grody.

         1. I must be a closet Brit?European? b/c I really like room temperature beverages. Maybe I chill too easly? A/C is too aggressive? But pls, more room temp water especially.

            1. Stainless steel is still better than plastic for room temp water. It stays at room temp instead of getting too warm, and it doesn’t taste as stale.

            2. I’m just curious — there is only one room temperature. How would it be different in Nalgene or plastic vs stainless steel?

               I hate it a little that we have made water so complicated.

            3. Water that comes out of the tap at “room temperature” is quite a bit cooler than the ambient air temperature. I like it at 50 degrees or whatever out of the tap, not 75 degrees.

   7. I have a lot of opinions about water bottles. I really like the S’well for Target – the 16 oz travel mug. That’s my “office” water. Stays cold, open one handed, no loose top, wide mouth for easy cleaning and adding ice. But I’ve found at home I want a bigger water bottle, so I have (and love) Takeya in the 40oz. Wide mouth for easy filling, the lid to the spout mouth unscrews, but is attached so you can always pop it right back on, insulated but has a rubber bottom.

   8. I don’t transport my water bottle (tumbler with lid?) so keep that in mind. I purchased a Simple Modern 20 oz tumbler with the straw top from Amazon and I love it. I have never drank as much water as I have in the past few months – I suspect because it’s the straw and the cup keeps water COLD, and there is zero condensation on the outside of the cup. There is a traditional travel lid that comes with it, and my beverage has survived with that on during a vigorous shaking from my toddler.

      1. Simple Modern all the way. I have the 84oz metal with straw top and screw on only lid options. I transport it every day and have never had leaks. One bottle of water for the whole day is mentally easy. Fortunately, I have a car commute, otherwise this would be very heavy to carry.

   9. I just hope all you unprofessional floozies aren’t bringing your uprofessional water bottles to the office…

      1. Well I talked to Ellen yesterday and she said that she was making partner DESPITE her water bottle, her hair tie, AND her TUCHUS (or because of her tuchus?), so there.

      2. Especially if they are all wearing scrunchies.

   10. Yeti, because it’s dishwasher safe.

   11. I like the Retap bottle.

   12. Have a Hydroflask and a S’well (the 40 oz one, so it’s more of a statement piece, ha). Love them both. Both are super sturdy and look awesome.

       Just make sure you get a bottle brush! Using them every day can gather gunk on the walls of the bottle. :)

7. Help! I started a new job during the pandemic and have been 100% remote this whole time, so I’ve never met most of my coworkers in person. I’m going to meet them IRL next month.

   I have NO CLUE what to wear. The office is in LA and from what I’ve seen, it’s extremely casual. It’s tech, so hoodies and sneakers are common, but I’m not comfortable showing up meeting people for the first time looking like that (or really, ever. I just can’t be that dressed down at work). Also, I’m in middle management and in my 40s so I need to project some level of authority and sophistication… but what does that look like at an ultra-casual company?

   Everyone wears jeans so I will definitely be packing a pair. In the pre-COVID times I used to wear structured blazers with jeans and interesting flats or low heels, but is that dated now? Too formal? I have no idea. I’ve been scouring sites for inspiration, and everything seems either way too formal and meant for a more traditional office or ridiculously over-the-top and unrealistic, like crop tops under blazers.

   Men have it so easy—they can just wear a button-down, jeans, and nice sneakers and somehow it works everywhere!

   What would you wear? Midi skirts? Loose linen separates? Mom jeans with a blouse? Thoughts on blogs or influencers I could follow who have this kind of look down? I don’t even know where to start.

   Any ideas would be so appreciated! Thank you!

   1. I think it’s amidprivilege dot dom — blogger is in tech on the west coast and is 50ish? Also: All Saints seems to fit this vibe a bit if you click around.

      1. I think she retired – barely posts anymore – but like the vibe of her posts from a few years ago!

         I might still go with the jeans – Going out Blazer look, but instead of heels or cute flats, wear sneakers.

      2. Very interesting blog! The concept of a “high WASP” is not nearly as weed-centric as I’d hoped, though. Sad face.

         1. HAHAHA

   2. I’d wear jeans, a tshirt, and jardigan or going out blazer.

   3. I think the key here is to go for a modern silhouette including straight or wide legged pants. The jeans + blazer combo will be dated if you combine it with a dated silhouette. That means no skinnies and avoid the shrunken blazer. In LA folks are going for wider legs and a longer blazer. The long blazer is VERY hard to pull of for most so this combo can look more “try-hard” than regular wide leg pants and a top.

      For reasonably priced inspo I’d check out the Everlane straight leg pant, the Madewell wide-legged selections, and some of the the wide and straight legged looks at Express.

      1. I don’t get the current trend for wide pants and long jackets/wide tops together. It looks dumpy and out of proportion unless you are Allison Janney or Katherine Hepburn. I prefer loose top/fitted pants or fitted top/loose pants. Short loose top and wide-legged pants fitted at the top can work, but it’s tricky.

         Also long blazers are horrible. They look like lab coats or toddler dress-up.

         1. Same. I’ve always loved the wide pant/turtleneck combo a la Shiv Roy from Succession. In warmer months I like the wide flowy pant with a very fitted sleeveless shirt. The wide pants and long jackets/wide tops combo is just fug IMO but some people “pull it off”. For me, they just pull it off because they are really lanky and stylish but they’d always look better in a different silhouette.

         2. Yeah, I’m having a hard time figuring out the styling for outfits like this and have so far avoided it. I look more Elaine Benes than Katherine Hepburn.

   4. If its “very casual” in southern California, don’t wear a blazer, even with jeans.

      Today I am wearing a Boden Tabitha linen jersey top, white denim skirt and white adidas sneakers.

   5. Slim pants that aren’t jeans, a tank or shell in a similar color to the pants and a contrasting collarless jacket or one of those cardigans that look jacket-ish. Flat shoes. Earrings only, no necklace.

      This is an unmemorable outfit that neither looks overdressed nor underdressed for just about any occasion. I default to it a lot for occasions where I don’t know the dress code.

   6. I’d wear wide leg cropped pants that aren’t jeans, a sleeveless top, and slide type sandal. Definitely no blazer.

      1. I work in digital media in a large city (though not West Coast). I wouldn’t do this–it’s too easy to get wrong and stand out in not a good way. Even though folks wear tees and sneakers on the regular at our office, almost no one would go sleeveless (and especially with slides) when meeting. That would be viewed as not cool with dress code and would just be weird in our air-conditioned space. Agree with the others to wear straight jeans, or black or white pants. I’d dress monochromatic and do a dressy tee.

      2. Just no on sandals to an interview. That’s pretty tone deaf. Especially slide sandals?

         1. It’s not an interview … she’s meeting coworkers at a new job

   7. I work in tech in SF. I’d skip the blazer. Jeans are fine, you could also wear non-jean pants (maybe something wide-legged or flowy so it feels stylish rather than overly formal). Interesting flats are definitely fine. I don’t see a lot of blazers, people do sometimes but it feels like more of a style statement. You’d probably blend in better with a nice blouse – I always feel good in a silky button-up as a great balance of laid-back, comfortable, and polished.

   8. Honestly, given that it’s tech, people might not really notice. That said, our women execs tend to do skinnies and an elevated tee or blouse with nice shoes. Moto jacket as third piece.

8. Posting this in reference to the recent thread on whether there are risks in meeting new people i.e. dating if both parties are vaccinated. I recently tested positive for COVID after getting 2 doses of the vaccine (Moderna). I left the US on a flight to Europe at night, arrived in the morning and had a slight fever that evening. I thought it was maybe jet lag but things got worse and 5 days later I decided to get a test to rule out COVID– and test came back +ve. After tracing back, a friend whose house I was at in the US mentioned that he thinks I might have been infected through him or another mutual friend I also interacted with 3 days before my trip. They had been to a gathering in a house where there were was a group of other people. On international flights they still are requiring a negative test which I did 3 days before my trip. My friend was sick that morning with what he said was a cold, but I thought nothing of it since my travelling test came back negative. It was only later during my illness that he mentioned that at some point this ‘cold’ made it difficult for him to even drive himself to work. I am better now but the 2 days before and after my +ve test were really terrible, and lots of things I had planned have had to be pushed back not to mention the days in isolation. (In case you are wondering, I ruled out being infected on the flight since it was less than 7 hours and the estimated incubation period is 2 days). In short, don’t assume because you are both vaccinated that you cannot pick up the infection from others even when you yourself have been really careful. Plus of course think of those you might infect who are not yet vaccinated, I interacted with 3 people on arrival, out of which only 1 is vaccinated.

   1. I don’t think this is news – that’s how vaccines work though, they aren’t 100% effective which is why getting more people to take them is important. Some people who get vaccinated are still going to get sick if exposed. The statistics also show you’re much less likely to pass it along if you do get infected if you are vaccinated (see, e.g., the Yankees cases where none of the infected people seem to have passed it to anyone else).

      1. Yes this. I’m not going to never date again because one girl on the internet had mild covid. Thanks for the fear mongering though!

      2. Yup. Bummer that you were in the 5% but good that you weren’t at any significant risk of hospitalization!

         1. Or the 35% for J&J. I’ve seen barely any mention of that vaccine lately. Everyone is talking about efficacy of Pfizer against the Delta variant, but not everyone got Pfizer.

            1. Where I live, there are more shots than willing arms at this point. I didn’t get Pfizer, but I’d volunteer to get them now just to be a test subject for something. Sites are closing up for no demand. I have 1 kid who is only 11 and can’t get anything and will just have to age into it in 2022 at this point :(

            2. Only 5% of vaccinated Americans got stuck with J&J, which may be one reason why we aren’t hearing about it. It had supply issues early on, then there was the pause, and by the end of the pause anyone could get one of the mRNA vaccines.

               Another reason we aren’t hearing about it is that the CDC is only tracking breakthrough cases that require hospitalization. The powers that be don’t care about “mild” cases that don’t result in hospitalization or death, so we will never know the true impact of the breakthrough cases or learn about how often they lead to long COVID.

            3. I’m confused by the frequent statements here about the CDC not tracking cases, I still get regular surveys from the CDC asking if I’ve had symptoms or a positive test and I’ve been fully vaccinated for like 2 months

            4. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/25/health/cdc-coronavirus-infections-vaccine.html
               https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

         2. More like the 20% for the Delta variant, which this probably is.

      3. This. Vaccination is not 100%. Especially if people don’t wait until two weeks post second dose before changing their behavior.

         There will be breakthrough infections with any vaccination. The point is to get people vaccinated so that hospitals are not overwhelmed and we can get back to more normal. Like the seasonal flu, covid will always be with us and there may be better and worse years for it and the vaccine may have higher efficacy against certain variants than others.

      4. Exactly. The vaccine is not a cure and no one should expect it to be. I think COVID is something we will learn to live with like regular flu strains and cold viruses.

      5. Exactly. You avoided hospitalization and death from COVID-19, and likely did not spread infection to others to the extent you would have if you were not vaccinated.

         I don’t think it is possible to avoid ever contracting covid for the rest of your life. The question is what happens if you and others if you are exposed. Being vaccinated makes a huge difference.

   2. Yes, and? As someone has already pointed out, vaccines are not 100% effective. Some people will still get infected.

   3. I also want to add, traveling to Europe during a pandemic is not being “really careful.”

   4. I got my measles vaccination when I was a child. A few years later I got measles. I had only been around other vaccinated kids. You can die from measles. You can spread it to others. There is also no definitive treatment. I guess to be safe everyone should learn from this and just stay home, avoiding all other people.

      1. Yep, this is the lesson. Stay home forever, never interact with anyone ever until risk can be 0%

         1. Sigh, that is not the lesson. I know everyone wants to think the pandemic is over – trust me, I know that and want it to be over too. But the fact is that we’re treating it like it’s over because we’re tired of it when it continues to have a devastating impact around the world. We’re not close to 70% vaccinated in the U.S. and we probably won’t get there. We all want to move on. But it doesn’t mean we stop talking about risk and how to handle it and sharing information that might help others. It’s a really silly strawman to constantly say “oh so you’re saying that NO ONE should do ANYTHING and we should all stay home FOREVER????1”

            1. The poster is suggesting that vaccinated people meeting up is somehow high risk because she had a mild case of covid. That’s nuts. Of course we need more people to be vaccinated, but there is nothing irresponsible or high risk about vaccinated people interacting.

   5. So you and your friend basically had a cold for a few days. Big deal.

      1. And she exposed and possibly infected everyone on the airplane, airport, cabs to and from, etc. along the way. I know everyone wants to think this pandemic is over and lash at out at anyone who suggests otherwise but it’s not. This is why I’m still masking up indoors and continuing to be cautious until my kids are eligible for the vaccine. People can take risks, but remember that when you’re choosing how to expose yourself to others in public. You want to go to indoor maskless parties? Great. Maybe wear a mask when you are in public around people who can’t get vaccinated (including the entire under 12 population) until this is under control.

         1. Given masks are required on planes, I’m going to assume OP was wearing a mask the entire time. Also transmission by vaccinated people is quite low.

            1. I don’t know if transmission is considered to be that low if the person is symptomatic. I think that’s more true for asymptomatic carriers. And I’m guessing a cross-Atlantic flight probably had lots of eating and drinking breaks from masks for everyone.

   6. I’m glad you had a mild case and that the vaccine protected you from severe illness!!

      1. Her “mild” case still sounds pretty awful though, and we don’t know what the long term effects will be. Most people who suffer debilitating long Covid had mild initial infections. Avoiding death and hospitalization is certainly better than the alternative, but I’m not sure I’m in the “everything’s fine as long as you don’t need a ventilator” camp.

         1. ok, then feel free to continue to not socialize even if you’re vaccinated. It doesn’t change the fact that doing so is low risk for vaccinated people

            1. Or socialize in masks with some caution until we’re not dealing with hyper contagious variants and a sizable percentage of the population that isn’t eligible yet (under 12).

         2. Please don’t spread mistruths. The vast majority of people experiencing “long COVID” symptoms had severe cases, most hospitalized. Source: I work in the field

            1. Many sources say long covid is relatively common in people who had mild or even asymptomatic illness.
               https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/23/health/long-covid-symptoms.html
               https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/health/long-covid-asymptomatic.html (32 percent of long Covid cases didn’t even have symptoms initially)
               https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/long-covid-can-affect-people-even-with-mild-initial-symptoms-study-1.4452710 (“TCD researchers find persistent fatigue and ill-health unrelated to severity of infection”)
               The UK’s NHS says “The chances of having long-term symptoms does not seem to be linked to how ill you are when you first get COVID-19.” https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/long-term-effects-of-coronavirus-long-covid/

               I’m glad to hear your experience is different, but that’s not what a lot of the published data suggests and anecdotally the only people I know suffering long Covid had flu-like illness, recovered from the acute illness within a week and never came close to being hospitalized. All women between the ages of 30 and 50, fwiw.

   7. Thanks for sharing! I appreciate it as I hadnt known anyone until now who got covid post-vaccination. Though anecdotal, it is still good to know.

9. Ugh — why is there suede? I should work for the underwriters laboratory as the resident suede-ruiner. It is so pretty! The colors are so vibrant and beautiful in a way that leather just isn’t. And yet, my entry-model leather couches are still going strong after 20+ years and kids and a puppy and I can’t eat one meal with a cream-based sauce without ruining suede.

   1. I have a thng for gray suede boots, and I’m on my third pair because I live in the kingdom of ice and salt. It’s a bad choice that I refuse to stop making.

      1. You need Aquatalia suede boots!

10. I finally pulled the plug and got a high quality mattress! I got a Nectar. A friend who has a similar mattress told me that not all beds are equipped to give a “foam” mattress the support it needs. I have a platform bed with slats, but is there a concern that it might not have enough support? It’s an inexpensive frame from Amazon. Has anyone upgraded their bed frame and noticed a change in the support of their mattress? I’d still like to stick with a platform bed (with or without a headboard) if anyone has any recs!

    1. How far apart are the slats? I think that is the issue.

       1. You need slats that are close together and screwed into the bed frame. For a queen or king, you also need a study support leg in the middle of the bed.

    2. I’ve never had good luck with just wood slats — there’s just too much give in them. I bought a metal support frame that goes under the slats and it’s made a world of difference. You can find it on the River site or at a local mattress store for like $100.

    3. We bought something called a “bunkie board” for this issue. It wasn’t too expensive and has held up for 6 years with no problems.

       1. +1 to a bunky board. OP, this is what you need.

    4. What could possibly give more support to a foam mattress than a platform bed? It’s a flat surface. Surely they don’t think slats is the answer.

    5. I have a Casper mattress that’s on slats . It’s been fine.

11. Please help me find a desk chair for WFH. I am on chair number 4 and starting to feel like Goldilocks. There is nowhere in my area to try things in person except big box stores, and I’m looking for something a step up from that quality wise. The holy grail Aeron chair was a flop because it caused me shoulder pain, but it was amazing. I am willing to spend up to 1000, but would prefer to stay around 500. The only must have is fully adjustable armrests that go really narrow. Each of the 4 chairs I got so far have had armrests so wide I can barely reach them, even after being adjusted inward, so I end up sitting with my elbows out wide like the chicken dance.

    1. Although it seems weird, you might be better off with an armless chair.

       1. I have tried that as well as just really low armrests and in both cases I end up putting my arms on the desk which is even worse for the issues I’m having with my shoulder and posture.

       2. Armless chairs are better for me.

    2. Wait, are you actually supposed to put your arms on the armrests while typing? I don’t know how that would work. The armrests would have to come way in over the seat. I only use the armrests while I’m not using the computer and can relax and splay my arms out.

    3. Did you get the small sized Aeron? I have this problem too, and this is what did the trick for me, but only the A size was small enough.

       1. +1 for small Aeron.

       2. I tried the B because I am 5’10” and 120 pounds and the size chart said I was too big for an A. How tall are you?

          1. I think the sizing is based on height. You want the seat depth to be correct. I have an A and am 5’6″ with short legs.

          2. I don’t think a smaller Aeron will solve your issue. I am 5’6″, 115 lbs and I can’t rest my arms on the armrests of the size A while typing. I am not sure why you would want to anyway.

          3. Yeah, I’m 5’3″, you’re probably too tall for an A, but for short people this chair is great. Getting the arms right really does help, if you can find it.

       3. the size A Aeron is the best

    4. Hon Nucleus.

    5. I got the steel case amia with 4 way adjustable armrests and like it a lot

    6. Steelcase Leap 2 with fully adjustable arms/4-way adjustable arms. You identified the exact issue that caused me to choose this chair. As I mentioned recently in a “so nice I bought it twice” category, I purchased a second one for my daughter for the same reason.

       1. After way too much research (and input from Corporette readers), I just ordered this one too. Unfortunately can’t give feedback yet, but people seem to love this chair.

       2. Do they make an armless one?

       3. I don’t have the same issue with armrests, but I got the Steelcase Leap 2 for work-from-home during the pandemic. I have loved it so for me totally worth the price.

12. Thank you for posting this. The risk is still small, but I know a lot of us have to be careful due to having high-risk conditions or to having family members with them. I’m guessing that the vaccine probably helped you have less severe symptoms, but it could be worse for those of us who aren’t sure if the vaccine is working. Either way, glad you are feeling better.

13. My husband and I have a long road trip coming up (12 hours each way) and could use some audiobook recommendations. Neither of us has ever gotten into audiobooks, but it seems like the perfect time to try them out. Shared interests include history, politics/current events, feel-good British things (like James Herriot), the outdoors, and science – I was thinking something like Midnight in Chernobyl might be a good choice. Anyone know if that would be good as an audiobook? Open to any and all recs for audiobooks and would also be open to podcast recommendations, but for podcasts, something with longer episodes and without ads (or at least without frequent ads) would be ideal so there isn’t so much jumping around. TIA!

    1. Have you listened to the first season of Serial? What about making your way through the top episodes of This American Life (in particular, 20 Acts in 60 Minutes, Notes on Camp, Switched at Birth, 129 Cars, Break-Up, Babysitting, Act V, 24 Hours at the Golden Apple, Petty Tyrant)?

       1. +1 for Serial. It was our gateway into podcasts/audiobooks and we kicked it off while pulling an all nighter on a roadtrip. The hours melted away.

       2. We did already listen to Serial, actually – one of the few podcasts we’ve even listened to together. I tried and failed to get into This American Life. I seem to recall it having a lot of ads and they honestly drive me crazy.

          1. TAL is a public radio show, they had ads?

       3. I love You’re Wrong About. Their O.J. Simpson Trial series is great, as the D.C. Sniper series.

    2. Matilda audiobook read by Kate Winslet! Lovely variety of British accents

    3. I really enjoyed Becoming by Michelle Obama and Trevor Noah’s Born a Crime audiobooks.

       1. I don’t recommend Becoming for a road trip. My husband and I listened to it and her voice is so soothing, we were both falling asleep, even though it was interesting! Her voice was hypnotizing.

    4. A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole.

       1. This is my favorite book of all time.

    5. I don’t do audiobooks but Midnight in Chernobyl is an excellent book and I think would be a good audiobook.

    6. I’ve heard rave reviews of Trevor Noah’s Born a Crime and Bruce Springstein’s Born to Run on audiobook. I read Born a Crime on my Kindle, and it is excellent–I’m tempted to go back and listen to it on audio. Supposedly, Born to Run includes music on the audio.

       I’ve enjoyed several of Erik Larson’s book on audio. My favorites are Devil in the White City and Dead Wake, and I’ve heard good things about his new book on Churchill, The Splendid and the Vile. I also enjoyed David McCollough’s book on The Wright Brothers on audio. I bet Bad Blood: Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup would be great as an audiobook too.

       For fiction, I like fast-paced, plot-driven books on road trips. Things like Michael Crichton or Dan Brown books. I’m 1/3 of the way through Stacy Abrams new book, While Justice Sleeps, on my Kindle, but it would be a good road trip book for me.

       For podcasts, DH and I listened to Patrick Radden Keefe’s Wind of Change on our last road trip, and we really enjoyed it. His book Say Nothing is excellent, but I’m not sure how it would work as an audiobook.

    7. P G Wodehouse!

    8. 2 recs — comedy albums can be great for long car drives. jim gaffigan, brian regan, kathy griffin, sarah silverman, etc. I don’t know how Denis Leary’s No Cure for Cancer has held up over the years but it was one of our favorites years and years ago.

       also — a book like Atomic Habits or Gretchen Ruben’s Happiness Project could both be really helpful to listen to together — you gain the same knowledge and lingo and goals if that makes sense.

    9. we just did Dolly Patton’s America, What’s Your Fantasy (a podcast about the chippendales—fascinating! Only on Spotify), and the You’re Wrong About series on princess Diana. All are 4-9 episodes (not too long nor too short). And OMG the You Must Remember This episodes on the Manson murders is an all time fave!

    10. The Erik Larsen book about Winston Churchill was a fabulous audiobook.

    11. Brideshead Revisited narrated by Sir John Gielgud.

    12. I would highly, highly recommend A Thousand Ships, read by the author, Natalie Haynes. I listened to the whole audiobook in one sitting (and I usually just fall asleep listening to audiobooks).

    13. The Promise (Season 1 and 2) from Nashville Public Radio are awesome! I binge-listened to both. Second season just won a Peabody Award (super rare for a podcast/public radio station of this size).

    14. Hardcore history. Not a podcast person and love this one

14. Inspired by the thread above, I am wondering whether I need a blazer update as I contemplate a return to in-person meetings. I have five Going Out Blazers and adore them all. I love the lack of a collar, the high neck in the back, the fitted silhouette, the bracelet sleeve, and the absence of buttons. Is there such a thing as a blazer that is similarly sleek and clean-lined but longer? All of the longer blazers I can find are boxy with collars and buttons. I have not had luck with long sweater blazers and suspect that those are on their way out. What brands are the fashionable professional women in LA wearing these days?

    1. I will never give up my Going Out Blazers. They’re perfect for my short-waisted body and more flattering than any othe blazer I own. I’ll wear wide jeans with them, but I will not give them up!

15. Has anyone tried the Rothy’s hemp slides? They are super cute but not sure if they’re worth the money.

    1. If anyone wants to try them, my referral code ($20 off) is https://share.rothys.com/x/LEkof4

    2. Not that specific style, but Rothys is one of my go-to brands for comfortable shoes. If you like them I wouldn’t hesitate.

16. Before the pandemic, I would’ve said the standard 8-5 office culture wasn’t working for me. I sort of fantasized that WFH or at least a hybrid schedule would be so much better for me and my young-ish family. And in many ways, it is. I like the flexibility. I like getting more sleep because I’m not driving all the time. I like being home when my kids get home from school. However, I’ve been disappointed to realize that this mashup of having my home life and my work life intertwined is not the complete win I’d always envisioned. I find it difficult to switch back and forth without losing focus and feeling like I’m doing everything and nothing at the same time. Apparently my brain just isn’t that flexible? Am I just not cut out for this new world of work/life integration? Or have I just not practiced enough? I’ve been going into the office a few days a week and have been surprised to realize that I appreciate having more separation. The flexibility of WFH is amazing, but that’s apparently a downside for my brain, which needs a lot more structure but doesn’t necessarily want to reinvent that wheel every single day, if that makes sense.

    I feel strange, almost guilty, for feeling this way. I’m a Xennial and have been doing office life for a loooong time, if that makes any difference.

    1. Right there with you. I am 1000x less efficient and 1000x more stressed out when WFH. I have been granted dispensation to secretly go back to the office from the powers at be because I can’t take it anymore. Also xennial with young kids.

    2. The constant switching is killing me. Only get some tasks done well — those where I just do a thing I know how to do or know the answer. Anything involving long and sustained thought or growth into a new area is still waiting to move up the to-do list. I am just treading water. I hate it. If our schools don’t reopen fully 5 days a week this fall, I may start rocking in a corner as a way of self-soothing. We got some grace on expectations early on, but that has worn out.

    3. Think about it this way – a flexible culture isn’t perfect. But was butt-in-seat perfect? No. We have to choose the best of options that all have positives and negatives and not place super high expectations on any one of them. For me, WFH is the clear winner, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t occasionally have downsides too.

    4. I think it’s a matter of time and finding a new groove. Being forced home with school closures isn’t the same as a pre-pandemic/all the resources available world. We are just opening up a d people are figuring out a new way of working. I’d give it time and see if it’s better once school is open/fully back, everyone is back in the office some of the time, etc. and new rhythms develop.

       1. I agree with this take. I think WFH in an empty house and WFH with young children without childcare are not the same thing at all.

          1. It’s also individual. I am single and child-free and I still am not a fan of WFH all the time.

             1. Yes. I think what surprised me the most is I am at a stage of life where I am “supposed to” appreciate the “flexibility” of WFH (small kids, two career household, etc etc) and in fact it turns out I hate the flexibility. In some ways, I’m glad I was forced to try it and learn that the grass isn’t greener over here. (And I do have FT childcare and have had pretty stable, almost FT childcare for months now – for me, it’s less the kids and more just the being at home/lack of mundane social interaction/walls closing in.)

             2. It’s not really flexibility. It’s juggling multiple tasks and being on call 24/7, which is the opposite of flexibility.

             3. anon at 11:15 – that’s not universally true though. I am WFH and I absolutely do not allow myself to be available outside of my 40 – 45 hours (max) a week. I still don’t really like it.

    5. Do you have a dedicated office space at home? For me, once I converted our guest bedroom to an actual office, I felt much more productive working from home. It also really helped me with work/life separation. It is not quite as good in that area as going to the office, but it helps to have a door to shut at the end of the day. (I had previously been working from my bedroom and turns out that was a bad choice for me–it made me almost quit my job.) For me, the flexibility of working from home is worth the other struggles at this point in my life. (Have tweens/teens at home and am happy to be here during the summer and after school with them.)

       1. +1 to having a dedicated office space at home being a game changer.

       2. I do. It hasn’t mattered much, tbh.

       3. Dedicated space, start/stop time with built in real breaks, and giving yourself permission to ignore home tasks when working and work tasks when “homing.” That’s all key. I’ve been WFH for five years and there are things I don’t love about it, but boundaries were everything. And this last year has been NOTHING like working from home in the past.

    6. I love WFH full time. I didn’t realize that my “short” commute was still long and stressful (yes, 35 minutes in traffic is short in the NYC suburbs). When I would WFH on an adhoc basis before, I didn’t have a good office setup and I was always plopping my laptop somewhere and either watching kids or distracted by kids being watched by others. Now that it’s a full time and maybe permanent thing, I have a dedicated office/room and better tech and desk setups. I definitely do more home stuff during the day, but I don’t feel resentful about doing work early in the mornings or late at night to make up for the convenience to take care of household chores in a way that’s spread out, and not jam-packed into the few free hours I had at home. It’s interesting how different and personalized everyone’s experience is.

       1. +1 to all of this. I used to think I loved going into the office and never would have wanted to WFH regularly but now with a proper set up with a dedicated office , I really do like it a lot! Ideally I’d like to come in a day or two to the office to get those impromptu interactions with co-workers which I think are valuable and helpful for my work but I really am loving WFH now that I’ve found my groove.

    7. I wouldn’t worry about it. Back in the day, the WFH grass seemed greener, but you didn’t have all the information. I would say that you still don’t have all the information, because much of the last year was working during an extremely traumatizing time, so who knows how you would have fared at work compared to working from home.
       Are you comparing fairly? Is your WFH setup equal to your desk at work in all things?
       The other thing to consider for a fair comparison is how much you are back to normal in your life. It sounds like your kids are no longer distance learning, but do you get out of the house regularly? Arguably, someone switching from office work to wfh might even want to increase private socializing to make up for the lack of social contact that we usually get in 8hrs of work.
       Or maybe an office works better for you at this time in your life. Nothing wrong with that, and there is no reason you can’t reevaluate this every so often while you get more information or other parts of your life shift.

    8. I feel exactly like you. I need a routine and I need boundaries for my brain. It took me a long time to “get used to” WFH (like… 10 months) but I still appreciate the separation. Now that my love for the flexibility outweighs my struggles with not being in the office on most days (this won’t always be the case I expect) I’m trying to figure out how to transition to get the best of both worlds. But I know that waking up every day and having to pick between office and home isn’t going to work. But I still want choices. It’s hard.

    9. I don’t like WFH either, for much of the same reasons. I need separation, both in metres, time and visually. Child-free Xennial, if it matters.

       I live in a small city apartment, one bedroom and open plan, and I absolutely hate that I now have my office in my face 24/7. I have put the best foot forward and made do, with great equipment etc., but I find it very tiring.

       I do have a proper office and not a cubicle or open plan se-up at work, though, so have plenty of ways to do high concentration tasks as well as the collaborative tasks, which are the ones that really work best f2f.

    10. I don’t think anybody’s brain is built for switching back and forth. This isn’t a personal failing. I hate working from home for precisely this reason.

17. I need a new lunch bag for the office. Any recommendations? I carry plastic and glass containers, as opposed to plastic baggies, which take up a lot of space. I plan to continue doing that, so I guess I’m looking for something larger than a standard lunchbox but smaller than the coolers that construction workers carry?

    1. Igloo 9 Can Balance Mini City Cooler Lunch Tote at Target. It’s shaped to fit containers but not enormous. I put a 4-cup square Pyrex snapware and a couple of smaller containers in mine, with my drink bottle in the outer pocket.

    2. I have a Built neoprene lunch bag that holds a lot. It looks like they don’t make my exact style anymore, but it looks kind of like their Prime lunch bag.

    3. I have this bag and I love it. It can hold a lot, but also rolls down so it’s not bulky. It tends to collect a lot of condensation on the inside, but if you just leave it open, it will dry off and it’s easy to clean. I think they aren’t making these anymore though.

       https://www.amazon.com/Goodbyn-Roll-Insulated-Lunch-Green/dp/B00M2UAD4E/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=goodbyn&qid=1624551165&sr=8-5

       BUILT has a similar bag:
       https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/built-lex-lunch-tote/?catalogId=79&sku=2745233&cm_ven=PLA&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=Homekeeping%20%3E%20Lunch%20Bags%20%26%20Containers%20%3E%20Lunch%20Bags%20%26%20Bento%20Boxes&region_id=669090&cm_ite=2745233&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxMS0udSw8QIV9Al9Ch1XDgWQEAQYASABEgLJWfD_BwE

    4. I have been eyeing one of the older models from Fit & Fresh, but I’m not sure if it’s still widely available. The model was “Big Phil”, and is a man’s lunch box, but it opens up very widely and nicely to be able to put things in the right way.

18. What do a serve my uncle and aunt for a mid-morning snack during their visit? I was planning on fruit, donuts, and coffee until my sister informed me that my aunt is diabetic. Anything that is pre-packaged, or easy to pick up would be great. TIA!

    1. Pre-made quiche

    2. Why don’t you ask them? Or you could try a fruit and cheese tray.

       1. +1 ask them for suggestions! No point in making something she doesn’t like or shouldn’t eat for health reasons.

    3. Fruit, cheese, crackers, nuts. You can arrange on a platter to be cute or just keep everything in individual containers. Aunt can mix/match based on her sugar limitations and this works for multiple days if needed.

    4. Veggie tray with dip and/or crackers/cheese/salami tray

    5. Make your own parfait? Plain Greek yogurt with some granola or muesli and a selection of fresh berries.

       1. Can you do cut-up cheese and nuts, kind of like a mini charcuterie board?

       2. Those adult lunchable snacks packs that have cheese and nuts and maybe dried fruit? I’ve seen them at Costco. Or you could just put out cheese, nuts, and some fruit.

          Note: I do not have experience with diabetes, so tried to suggest lower sugar/carb options, but I don’t know if that’s correct.

       3. This is my new favorite. Stir some honey into the yogurt for the non-diabetics. YUM!

    6. Quiche bites, berries w/lightly sweetened whipped cream, and coffee. Less sugar, but still celebratory, and all can be bought in quick-prep versions.

    7. My diabetic MIL always has something with protein when she eats fruit. Like an apple with peanut butter or some deli meat, etc. Maybe pick up a charcuterie board?

    8. Can a diabetic eat cheese and crackers? Cheese plate, nice crackers and crudites?

    9. If they would eat it, I would do moked salmon and bagels with cream cheese, capers, pickled red onion. I would get some low carb bagel chips as well. And then fruit

19. I’m barely five feet tall and looking for tips on redesigning closets in a way that uses the full space but also lets me clean/organize easily. I’m torn between the current contractor cheap plastic-coated wire shelves (they’re annoying to dust and they mark up clothes, but they let me see what’s above them) versus some solid option that would allow things to get lost in the back beyond my sight line. Hauling out a step stool every time is a giant PITA.

    Ideas, sites to browse? Anything appreciated.

    1. Completely not what you asked but as part of your closet overhaul, treat yourself to petite size hangers if you are both short and petite. These are probably the single best wardrobe investment I ever made.

       1. Yes on petite size hangers for small sizes, regardless of height! No more shoulder bumps in my sleeves.

    2. assuming that your in-rotation wardrobe is such that the out-of-reach areas would be for things like off-season items, or special occasion/activity items, I would either fill the top shelf with clearly labeled boxes or attach labels on the shelf/nearby wallspace. The first option has automatic dust protection.

    3. Get a California closets consultation – they can likely help you figure out how to optimize things for your height, so drawers/shelves you use more are at your height etc. The wire shelves are AWFUL and they create wasted space. I’d also get a nice stepladder when you’re all done. I’m 5’8″ and there is a level of my closet I can’t reach.

    4. I lined my wire closet shelves with white corrugated plastic sheets, cut to size with an utility knife, from Home Depot. It completely alleviated the wire marks/indentations on my clothes and are super easy to clean.

       https://www.homedepot.com/p/Coroplast-48-in-x-96-in-x-0-157-in-White-Corrugated-Plastic-Sheet-CP4896S/205351385#product-overview

    5. +1 to California Closets. I had them do mine this year. I’m short (5’3″) with very high ceilings. We are able to design something that put regular-use items at fingertip reach, and other things high up nicely organized and still visible – I use a stepladder to get them, but organization is so good, it isn’t very often.

20. Can someone explain the Britney conservatorship to me? It has been going on for a while and she seems to be able to work. It is to keep her out of the clutches of bad people? Or proof that she is being manipulated? I see it all over the tabloids but I haven’t seen a reasoned legal analysis of what the F is going on here.

    1. I don’t know much about the history or details of the conservatorship, but from what I hear, it’s a total scam and human rights violation. I can’t even understand how it’s legal at all. In other cases, it’s VERY hard to get and keep a conservatorship for someone who has dementia and cannot care for themselves – what’s going on here that allows a controlling father to limit the human rights of his daughter?

    2. That’s the whole question: is she actually incapable of caring for herself (conservatorship of the person) and her financial affairs (conservatorship of the estate), or is her father using both conservatorships for personal profit? Britney’s contention is that she is being involuntarily drugged and forced to perform against her will so her father can take a cut of her earnings. Her father’s contention is that she is so impaired due to mental illness that she is incompetent to care for herself, make her own health care decisions, manage her finances, etc.

       1. What does K-Fed think? Does he have custody of the kids? Do both of them? If she were that out of it, you’d think that there would be some family court involvement. Maybe all of them have an interest in keeping her working — it’s not like any of the adults have jobs to fall back on and they are sort of like ticks on a puppy, no?

          1. She does not have custody of the kids. Her father physically attacked one of the children during visitation and now has a restraining order against him. I don’t think Federline has standing in the case, although he probably has relevant knowledge as a witness re. the behavior of both Britney and her father.

          2. K-Fed has full custody of the kids. People forget that in the 2007-2008 time frame, Britney did several things that endangered her children’s lives (namely locking herself in a bathroom with them and threatening to kill them), and that’s why the conservatorship even exists.

             1. The question is whether she is still impaired to that degree.

             2. She definitely had a mental health crisis, but I am very concerned about the concept of someone losing all decision-making authority over his or her own affairs forever because of a crisis.

             3. That crisis was not recent. Since then she probably makes more $ than me, which seems recovered. She isnt getting fired from jobs for performance issues.

             4. The idea that a woman can have a mental health crisis and then subsequently be well enough to perform and make lots of $$ but have no agency or authority in her life or her finances is terrifying. Also as someone who is pro choice the idea of any woman being forced to have an IUD is horrifying.

             5. Agreed – I think the right answer is more a middle ground between the conservatorship and more freedom. I don’t believe she should be forced to work against her will or be forced to have an IUD. However, based on the communications her team HAVE allowed her to have with the world, she does seem to have a significant mental illness that the public just isn’t aware of. I read the transcript of her testimony and it reminded me of how my Dad talks when he is in one of his manic phases (he has Bipolar 1).

             6. Right? It’s like a reverse Handmaid’s Tale. Britney is 39, so at a certain point, she won’t be able to have more kids, but today she could. And she says she wants to marry her boyfriend. The legal standard of competency to marry is very low, much less than competency to contract. I don’t know why this is OK.

                Britney has had at most a casual high school education more than half her lifetime ago. She doesn’t sound so off to me (but mental illnesses can be episodic, especially if you are bipolar).

                But it just seems like one group preying on her doesn’t want her freed to possibly allow others to prey on her. I’m not sure there are any angels here.

             7. all about eevee: there’s a lot to unpack.

                You cannot diagnose someone based on speech patterns. Full stop. The standards for making a diagnosis of bipolar are a full medical history, analysis by a psychiatrist, and, often, discussion with family members.

                Trauma can cause people to sound “off.” The worst thing is when abusers traumatise their victims, then use the resultant trauma and “off” to justify the abuse. For thirteen years, Britney Spears has been a grown adult, earning over a hundred million dollars, who is not allowed to decide when she gets to drive, eat, see a therapist, work, take medication, or otherwise have any autonomy over her life. If she is, in fact, being trafficked, the trauma from that alone will itself cause mental illness. That resultant mental illness is a reason to end the conservatorship, not continue it.

                Again, for the record, do not attempt to diagnose someone with bipolar based on speech patterns.

       2. I don’t understand how she can work in quite a grueling environment, perform reliably etc but then be considered too incompetent to manage her life? Surely if she was truly incompetent, she couldn’t be asked to work. Like she could spend all her money on the ponies and that isn’t really the state’s business?

          1. Exactly.

             What I can’t figure out is why my colleagues who work on guardianship abuse issues aren’t using the publicity surrounding this case, along with that movie that recently came out about the scammy guardian, as an opportunity to raise awareness. They wouldn’t have to come out and make a definitive conclusion about this case–they could just focus on the questions.

          2. Exactly. If she wants to blow her money, that’s actually her choice. Her father does not get to say, will, she might make bad choices so she doesn’t get to make any decisions at all.

       3. The salient point to me is that her father receives $16k/month for caring for his daughter’s affairs, which she has no say in.

          1. He also gets a percentage of gross receipts on her performances.

    3. The podcast Sinisterhood did a two-part episode about this back in February, I recommend checking it out. One of the hosts is an attorney and is able to provide some of the legal background.

    4. I have a family member who lives in the same state as Britney Spears and I had a really difficult time getting and keeping a conservatorship over the after their dementia diagnosis. This family member did things like almost burning down their house and business multiple times, urinating in the courtroom during proceedings, taking money from the ATM and handing it out to strangers on the street and buying multiple vehicles over a period of months even though the ones they had were perfectly fine (just as some examples of their behavior after the diagnosis). Not only was it difficult to get, but the reporting requirements for things like the finances were so stringent. Though not as rich as Britney my family member did have some money from owning a business. I didn’t even try or want any of it from myself. I just wanted them to be in a place where they had care and could be safe.

       I’m torn because in court Britney spoke of her feelings around the abuse she says she is living under and I absolutely don’t discount that. But my family member also has moments and days where if you saw or talked to them they would seem fine but the rest of the time it is the opposite. The conservatorship thing was so hard I eventually handed things to a law firm who ensured the house and business were sold and the money put in a trust to look after my family member. I can’t access it, only the law firm can and they oversee it and the court gets reports on the finances. I know how hard it is to get a conservatorship in the first place.

       I’m obviously not privy to Britney’s situation. It is a heartbreaking situation and if she is being abused I hope something is done and she can be free. I recognize that my feelings are clouded due to my own situation.

       1. I went through the agony of a family member with dementia and while I am certainly not a doctor or an expert, everything I know about Britney and my own family member’s dementia allows me to say these are not the same. Did she have a mental health crisis? All signs point to yes. Is she still incapable of managing her own safety? I do not think so. Is her family very interested in keeping the conservatorship the way it is because they obviously profit off of it? Absolutely. I am not taking Jamie Lynn or her mom out of this either. While clearly not as beneficial for them, they are culpable in my opinion for not doing anything to right this injustice.

          1. I don’t know Brittany’s story at all, but some medications if prescribed to someone who doesn’t need them can actually cause a mental health crisis or psychotic break. So people can get caught in a vicious cycle if an abuser persuades them to try meds that then contribute to dangerous or erratic behavior that wasn’t characteristic of their mental health issues beforehand.

    5. My understanding is that in California it’s hard (not impossible, but hard) to get someone conserved when they’re in much, much worse shape. So, I have no clue how a person who can do the kind of work Britney does is still conserved. One generally has the right to make bad choices in California and that right doesn’t go away just because the person has mental illness.

    6. Feels to me like she’s an ATM for her father and “her” attorney- the one who gets $10K per month and apparently never speaks to her.

       1. I mean, it’s the LITERAL patriarchy at work. On no planet can I imagine this happening to a similarly situated male pop star.

          1. Kanye doesn’t have one.

             This is insane. She should be able to go to Vegas and put $60million on the blackjack table if she wants. She earned the money. Why does her father get to “protect” it from her while also using it? He gets $16K a month while she gets $2K a week allowance. So he makes double what she does… and it’s her money! She has mental health issues but so do many people and they all have freedom. Her issues are probably enhanced by years of involuntarily over-medication. A friend of mine has driven through Kentwood Louisiana. The two biggest houses in that tiny poor town below to Britney’s mom and sister. The family won’t let their meal ticket spend her money how she wants… on her boyfriend or vacations. That’s why she’s still in a conservatorship. She was right. This is basically human trafficking.

          2. Kanye??? Where is his conservator??

          3. Charlie Sheen didn’t either.

21. Apple Watch wearers with fancy-ish bands — what color metal do you have for your Apple Watch? I’m looking at new ones and can’t decide between silver and space gray for the broadest potential future watch bands. (My current one is a rose gold and a weird size and won’t update anymore.)

    1. I actually have about 30 silicone / plastic ones, patterned, solids. All kind of shades to match my tops / blouses
       It amuses me to no end to change them to go with my outfit, even while WFH.

22. Does anyone sing as a hobby (as an adult) and what does that look like for you? I’d like to improve my own voice (I was all city choir as a kid) but am not interested in a church choir or joining a band, and private singing lessons seem extreme without the desire to perform.

    1. This comment inspired me to search for “community choir.” Turns out my area has one, and they have a free concert soon! I will check it out with the intent of maybe joining.

       1. My husband is in a community choir and loves it! Some of them are objectively terrible, but they all enjoy it, and they do bring in a professional coach to work with members who want to build their skills.

    2. My city has a community choir. My neighbor has loved being in it and a friend did it for a while.

    3. I sing and am also trying to get back into playing an instrument. I have found that I need something to prepare for or practice is pointless, with the exception of something like piano or guitar where playing on your own is fun or you can accompany family singalongs. If you don’t want to sing in a church choir, there are community choruses and symphony choruses to audition for. Preparing for lessons could serve as a goal unto itself, but rehearsals and performances are more motivating for me.

       I am not currently taking lessons but would love to take voice lessons (which I’ve never had) to improve my vocal technique and become more competitive in auditions, and lessons on my instrument to get back some of what I’ve lost in the 20+ years since I “retired” after earning a performance degree. For the time being I’ve resorted to volunteering to play in church just to have something to work towards. I also chose my church primarily on the strength of its music program. The chancel choir is actually kind of decent and includes a fair number of younger folks who can even sort of sight-sing. The minister of music is awesome and ambitious and puts on two big concerts a year. He also puts together smaller ensembles of more skilled singers that are a lot of fun. If you are Christian, it might be worth taking a look at the local churches to see what they have going on. If it weren’t for choir, I probably wouldn’t bother with church.

    4. I have a few friends who do take private voice lessons for no real reason. They just enjoy singing and getting better at it, even though they don’t perform in any choirs or bands. Their teacher has recitals from time to time, and he has a number of adult clients, so the recitals have people of all ages singing a short concert (all solos). It seems like a lot of fun to me!

    5. I had a friend who took private lessons for maybe a year, and then joined a choir with which she occasionally performs. I believe the lessons were a helpful tool to build not only her voice but also a bit of confidence to sing in front of others.

23. Does anyone have any experience, recently, with Coldwater Creek? I’ve seen a couple of interesting jackets I’d like to try, but there are reviews suggesting that their customer service is not great. I’m okay with thing taking a bit longer to get to me than promised, but not with issues around returns. On the other hand, Discover is a great credit card for settling disputes, so maybe it’s worth a try?

    1. I’ve never had an issue with Coldwater Creek – products or shipping.

       1. Thanks!

    2. No idea, I’ve always thought of it as an old lady brand for when Chicos is too youthful for you.

       1. Well thank you for that very helpful comment! I am 53, so I guess that’s an old lady.

          They have a collarless fitted denim jacket that looks nice online. Regular denim jackets are so boxy on me, and I guess I have a sort of scrawny neck because I find the collars on most denim jackets never sit right – too big and bulky.

          1. You’re welcome! I’m not far behind you, and I try to help my pals stay away from prematurely aging themselves in stuff that’s going right to the return pile.

          2. I’m a fan of collarless denim jackets too. I picked up a couple I like on Poshmark. One is WHBM and another is Paige.

       2. I laughed at this comment because I am in my 30s, and have a Chicos top from a thrift store in regular rotation. I also have a Coldwater Creek knit moto jacket that I love. I guess I have old lady style!

       3. There’s a strip of stores at my local shopping center that I call Menopause Alley – Chico’s, Coldwater Creek, Brighton, and Vera Bradley. I think they’re opening a Soft Surroundings as well.

          And I say this as someone in menopause.

24. Interesting that my comment about Coldwater Creek didn’t go into mod, but a suggestion for food for diabetes did. What’s the naughty word?? Nuts? Packs?

    1. just guessing but did it include the phrase tr-ns anywhere?

       1. No, it did not. Maybe adult or lunchable triggered the mod? Cheese? Fruit?

          1. I spotted your comment above. Sometimes the backslash does it for me. Like the s-te thinks you’re trying to link something.

             1. Ah, thanks, would not have thought of that!

25. Maybe a stretch but — has anyone here clerked on the NY Court of Appeals? How was your experience, and did it open up career opportunities for you? (Of course, I understand the experience will vary greatly by judge.) I’m currently a biglaw junior associate.

26. Any suggestions for what drink to order at a bar that looks like alcohol but isn’t? Not pregnant, but don’t want to fuel speculation at a happy hour event I’m attending…

    1. Not aiming this at you in particular, OP, but I’m really surprised at how often this comes up. Even in my reproductive years, I don’t remember anyone monitoring what I drank in caseI might be pregnant. It wasn’t uncommon for a lot of people I socialized with back in the day to just not be drinking alcohol at that particular event and no one cared. But I guess this is a thing among some social groups.

       Club soda and a lime works. Or club soda with a splash of something red/pink and you can pretend it’s a cosmo. A glass of coke with a lime might just as easily be a rum and Coke. Ask the bartender to muddle some mint leaves and lime and add Sprite and pretend it’s a mojito? Ginger ale and a lime and pretend it’s a vodka mule?

       1. Haha jinx!

       2. I’m surprised by how often this question comes up too. I remember in college, frat parties would put pressure on people who weren’t drinking, but I’ve never (as a real adult) encountered anyone who was monitoring my drink consumption, questioning it, or pressuring me to drink. That’s just so odd to me. I don’t see the point of paying $9 for a mocktail I don’t even want just to stave off busybodies.

          1. I’ve always just assumed that this must be a thing in the heavy-drinking NYC biglaw, finance, etc. culture? My husband is from NYC and when we were first dating he was oddly concerned about about the image my drink projected to others. Beer was good because it looked cool and low-maintenance, margarita OK, but anything cute and fruity was embarrassing. He got over it after being out of the city for a while.

          2. OP here, unfortunately my experience at these types of work events (law firm happy hour) has been that there is a lot of focus on drinking and associates rib on each other a lot about drinking. I’ve had to explain myself on several occasions and while it is an invasion of my privacy it’s pretty awkward to refuse to answer.

             1. What do you mean refuse to answer? Just make something up if you have to – “I’ve been having bad heartburn lately so I’ve had to switch to water” or “I have my long run first thing tomorrow.”

             2. Not OP but in my experience that doesn’t work, people just like to argue with you about why you should be drinking anyways (oh just one drink, it’ll make you feel better, etc.). I just pretend to have a drink instead, it’s much less of a headache.

       3. My last three jobs have all been very quick to question why I wasn’t drinking at parties and socials. These are jobs in suburban industrial parks without public transport, so all of us had to drive to work and then to the event destination. On one hand, I don’t feel the need to hide my medical reasons for abstaining. On the other hand, why is every single other person here drinking and driving?

          1. That’s horrible. Did you work at Dunder Mifflin?

       4. You’re lucky. The moment I got married a couple of years ago, a bunch of busybodies parked my body and habits under a microscope for the first signs of a baby. Forget alcohol intake – that’s amateur hour. They monitored the exact shape of my stomach. My coffee intake. My food intake. My energy levels. What races I ran. What trips I took. Every. Single. F—ing. Picture. was scrutinized for signs of a baby.

          It was so damaging to my mental health (especially being called fat 24/7, because that’s apparently a “compliment” now) that I cut ties with people.

    2. Club soda with lime – tell them to put it in the same glass they’d put a vodka soda in. Maybe say “vodka soda, hold the vodka.” It’s really all about the glassware. You could also do ginger ale in a champagne flute, cranberry juice in a martini glass with Cosmo garnish, etc.

       1. +1 this is what I do when I’m not drinking (either because I was pregnant or because I’m just not drinking and don’t want questions about it). I go to the bartender and say can I get a club soda with a lime but make it look like a vodka soda. If you want to take it a step further or want something more fun, ask to add a splash of cranberry.

       2. Yep, exactly my order. “Club soda with lime in a gin and tonic glass, wink” and most bartenders are very cool about it. If you like the taste of tonic water, that’s good too as a drink-looking non drink.

    3. Other people are not thinking about you that hard. Drink whatever you want. Cranberry juice, gingerale, Coke, whatever.

       1. Not who you’re responding to, but I wish this was true. I’m happily and loudly CF so it has never happened to me personally, but I have 100% seen pregnant friends (early in pregnancy) be asked outright at a group lunch if they were pregnant because they weren’t drinking. It definitely happens and it’s annoying (and weird) AF.

          1. +1 I wish people didn’t think about it but they do. I’ve personally been asked many times point blank if I’m pregnant because I wasn’t drinking.

       2. This isn’t true, particularly if you’re in your prime child bearing years.

       3. Literally, my husband’s boss asked me if I was pregnant when I was at a work event with him and he overheard me ordering a lemonade.

    4. Virgin Mary
       Tonic and lime in the bar’s GT glass
       Ginger beer and lime in a Moscow Mule copper mug
       Virgin Bellini or Virgin Mimosa in Mimosa glass – have the bartender switch soft apple cider for the prosecco, or lemon soda or something if they don’t have apple cider
       Virgin Sea Breeze (cranberry and grapefruit)

    5. Pretty much anything you add a lime to. I am less adult than the other commenters, but I think club soda is gross. I’d prob order sprite with lime and call it a vodka soda or a G&T. Or a ginger ale with a lime is a faux Jack & ginger. A coke with lime looks like a rum and coke.

    6. I drink unsweet tea if they have it, or cranberry juice with a lime wedge. I’m childfree and a GERD sufferer, so club soda is out due to the carbonation.

       1. That phrasing is weird. I just meant that I don’t want to deal with pregnancy speculation, because I’ve spent decades being told I’ll suddenly catch baby rabies.

    7. Other adults for sure monitor other people’s drinking. I was organizing and hosting a big conference pre covid, I didn’t want to drink because I wanted to be sharp and ensure the conference went off without a hitch. I was asked no less than 5 times if I had a ‘secret’ so 5 conference attendees got an earful about responsibilities.

    8. Co-signing club soda or diet Coke with lime. As others have noted, ask for them to serve it in a c-cktail glass.

       To those questioning whether this is still a thing for full-grown adults? Yes. Very much yes. Especially in the law firm world of Old Boys.

    9. I drank a lot of ginger beer when pregnant, either in a bottle (looks like real beer at a sports bar) or in a glass (vodka mule, no vodka).

       I had many happy hours and pre-dinner cocktail events with clients/colleagues while in the pregnant but not ready to share timeframe.

       1. Those ginger beer and root beer bottles look very realistic. I was once carded at Trader Joe’s trying to buy root beer. I was confused because I thought the computer system was supposed to prompt the clerk to card you when alcohol was scanned, and that definitely didn’t happen. I had to explain that no, it was not real beer, and also I was over 40.

    10. I don’t drink and I also hate busy bodies. My choice is tonic and lime, mostly because I actually like how it tastes!

    11. You’ve gotten a lot of good suggestions for drinks. But I have found that people are getting less judgy about abstaining these days. I know a ton of people who don’t drink for lots of reasons: general health, athletic pursuits, sobriety, pregnancy, etc. Maybe I’m an over sharer and getting older, but I just tell people what’s up. I’m training for a race; I’m driving; I cut out alcohol for the month; etc. I find that a curt, I don’t drink, brings out the defensiveness or questions of others, but sharing a reason can soften it a bit. Of course, you don’t have to share (you don’t owe anyone an explanation) but If these are people you’re going to hang out with on the reg, it would be exhausting to me to have to keep up the appearance of drinking. (Most of the places we go for happy hour have a server, so it would be a challenge to whisper my order. I find the fake drink thing works a bit better in a big group mingling situation, so if that’s what type of happy hour it is, it’s much easier to go to the bar on your own.)

        1. “I’m driving” is my usual line. It’s always true. I sometimes phrase it as “Wish I could–I have to drive home” to imply that oh, golly, I do wish I could have fun! Honestly I am not boring!

        2. Maybe just trust OP that she knows her own situation?

           1. +1 this stigma and judgment is ALIVE and well in certain industries (I can only speak to law, but let me tell you nothing social happens in the legal field without ensuring there is tons of booze and you are definitely the odd woman/man/person out if you aren’t drinking).

        3. It’s kind of true – a lot of influencers and celebrities are going sober lately, some because they had a real problem with alcohol, and others as just part of a healthy lifestyle.

           I never drink at lunch, never have. If anyone ever gave me a hard time about that, usually in a peer pressure sort of way, I would say “I’m not a day drinker. It just gives me a headache and makes me want to take a nap,” which is totally the truth.

           1. (and PS, I work in Finance, another notoriously heavy-drinking profession, and still managed to be considered “fun”)

Comments are closed.