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Thursday’s Workwear Report: V-Back Short-Sleeve Sheath Dress

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A woman wearing a blue dress and taupe pumps

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

If you’re a dress person, do yourself a favor and head over to Ann Taylor’s dress section for some of the best selections I’ve seen in ages.

This cobalt short-sleeved sheath is an absolute dream for a formal office. Add tights and a blazer for the winter, or nude-for-you heels and a fun necklace for the summer. If you’d prefer a pattern to a solid, don’t miss this animal print midi dress or this striped sweater dress.

The blue dress is $139 at Ann Taylor and comes in regular sizes 0–16 and petite sizes 00–14.

It's in a different style, but this plus-size dress from Adrianna Papell has a similar price ($149) and is available in 14–26.

Sales of note for 3/26/25:

  • Nordstrom – 15% off beauty (ends 3/30) + Nordy Club members earn 3X the points!
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale + additional 20% off + 30% off your purchase
  • Banana Republic Factory – Friends & Family Event: 50% off purchase + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 50% off select styles + extra 50% off all sale
  • J.Crew – 30% off tops, tees, dresses, accessories, sale styles + warm-weather styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Shorts under $30 + extra 60% off clearance + up to 60% off everything
  • M.M.LaFleur – 25% off travel favorites + use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – $64.50 spring cardigans + BOGO 50% off everything else

455 Comments

  1. Hi Ladies!! Happy Friday Jr! I’m planning a trip to Europe this year with some girlfriends. One of them just told me that she has a felony conviction that is 15+ years old; apparently it’s for possession of a controlled substance. Okay, we all make mistakes, right? She said she’s completed all of the terms of her probation, but she’s concerned that she isn’t allowed to travel to Europe because of this conviction on her record. I googled it and read that starting in November 2023 (at the earliest) some nationalities will be required to get an ETIAS Visa Waiver, but not US citizens. Does anyone have any experience with this? She has a US passport. Obviously we’d hate to arrive in Europe to find out she can’t get in. Thank you for any advice or suggestions!

    3. You have to check individual countries in Europe, and remember there will be immigration control at layovers.

      UK, Schengen within EU, Schengen non EU, non Schengen EU – lots of possible variations!

      There is more trouble being European and wanting to go to the US…

    4. I think this is your friend’s way of telling you that she doesn’t want to go to Europe.

      1. Not at all. She desperately wants to go. There are 6 of us going so there’s no pressure for her to go.

    5. A few years ago I was on an Canadian business trip with a co-worker who had a Scottish passport. When we went through US customs/immigration (in Canada), she was held for quite a while and almost missed the plane. Apparently she had some sort of arrest record/conviction in her past. After spending the week with her, I can’t say I was surprised.

  2. Anyone want to help me shop for a mother of the bride dress? It’s for a September wedding in Maryland, so it could be anywhere from 50 to 90 out, raining to sunshine. It’s a beach wedding on the shores of the Chesapeake, with a reception in a tented patio. My daughter prefers that I wear a long dress, in silver, metallic, or grey, or a blueish grey. It can be a print. I’m a 6/8, 5’4″, in my mid-60s, my style is pretty preppy, 95% of my wardrobe is LL Bean or Talbots. My budget is under $500. Unfortunately, I don’t have a lot of great shopping near me, so almost anything will need to be ordered and returned, so I need to keep that in mind for return postage. I’m going to need a mother of the groom dress for the spring following, but haven’t gotten the details of what to wear yet, but I’m keeping that in mind and will save suggestions that don’t work for the MOB dress.

      1. I have a few longer sleeved SS dresses and am 5-4. I routinely wear leggings underneath and also layer the heattech underneath and you cannot tell. Mine are printed cotton but I think that the silk would hide a lot underneath also and would look nice with a giant pashmina if the weather turns on you.

      1. I can go either way. I’ve been working out so don’t mind showing off the guns.

      1. +1 Nordstrom’s shipping and return policies are great, and Tadashi Shoji is a classic for a reason.

      2. +1 – Tadashi Shoji is my go to for weddings. The internal construction is top notch and holds everything in so well, I always feel like a million bucks in them. These are my faves:
        Rock and Roll metallic with sleeves: https://www.nordstrom.com/s/draped-shimmer-long-sleeve-gown/7136148?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&color=022
        Classic and only a teeny bit over budget: https://www.nordstrom.com/s/tadashi-shoji-embroidered-lace-evening-gown/6629600?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&color=487
        Shorter option: https://www.nordstrom.com/s/tadashi-shoji-sequin-lace-cocktail-dress/5059050?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&color=334

          2. Is it the lace overlay you like? How about these?
            https://www.nordstrom.com/s/sequin-beaded-surplice-gown/7306489?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FBrands%2FAdrianna%20Papell&fashioncolor=Grey&fashionsize=size%2FWomen%3A%20Apparel%2F8%2C%20M&color=064
            https://www.nordstrom.com/s/adrianna-papell-embroidered-column-gown/6562640?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FBrands%2FAdrianna%20Papell&fashioncolor=Grey&fashionsize=size%2FWomen%3A%20Apparel%2F8%2C%20M&color=486

      3. Love tadashi shoji. That’s what I wore for my wedding dress
        They also sell them at bhldn and at least for a wedding gown, had a great return policy.
        Iirc they do run a size or two large.

    4. What’s your budget? If up to $1000, browse NM – they have free shipping and returns both ways.

    5. BHLDN ruby satin dress is one to consider, if you are comfortable with a halter type strap. The Dusty blue color seems in line. They also have the Leila satin dress in the dusty blue. I’d keep an eye on Jessa Kae. I’m not seeing anything in your color pallette, but they occasionally get some really nice longer dresses that i think could work. Tadashi Shoji will be a little outside your price range. Another brand to check out is La Femme at nordstroms.

    6. I would also suggest googling the designers “Mac Duggal” and “Theia” – they make lovely dresses that I have seen on Saks off Fifth and on clearance at Neiman Marcus. I wore a Theia cocktail dress for my SIL’s wedding a few years back and got compliments all night.

      1. Warning – Theia is NOT vanity sized. I bought my wedding dress from the brand, and several other formal dresses over the years. Love the brand, but just warning. While there are typically very good sales, I’d hesitate to buy anything final sale.

        1. I find them TTS for designer clothing (which, agree, is typically not vanity sized). I wear a 6 in designer brands/european brands and a small or 2/4 in most mall brands. A size 6 in Theia fit me well. I am pretty straight up and down and there is not much give in the hips in their dresses so you may want to size up if you carry your weight in your lower half.

      3. I’ve loved every Mac Duggal I’ve seen, but they have almost all been over my budget. There’s a Saks Off 5th about an hour away, it might be worth the trip.

    9. When in September? There is a much higher chance of cool weather at the end of the month than beginning, and that would influence my choice if I were going. I live in MD, so that is based on regular experience.

    10. Based on your mention of Talbots and LL Bean I will post a reminder that bridal stores generally have perfectly acceptable MOB options that will tick all the necessary boxes, and might be appealing if you’re not a fashionista and not looking to make a big splash with a new “style” at the wedding. The dresses that others have posted are gorgeous, but I can’t imagine my own LLBean/Talbots devotee mom feeling anything but anxious and conspicuous in any of them.

    11. I feel like the real puzzle is to figure out how to stay warm if it’s at the colder end of that range. Agree with other posters that lined leggings under your dress will be very helpful. For the top, how about velvet or faux fur?
      I googled “faux fur capelet” and saw a ton of cool options.
      This would be lovely in blue (to match your dress) https://www.etsy.com/listing/1029771506/velvet-wedding-bolero-white-loose-cut?variation1=2116277469&variation0=2092028384
      Congratulations on your (near) double wedding!

      1. I think this would look nice with a wrap
        https://www.neimanmarcus.com/p/cult-gaia-perla-strapless-column-gown-prod255280226?childItemId=NMT40R2_&colorKey=Gray&navpath=cat000000_cat000001_cat58290731_cat43810733_cat35350732&page=0&position=11

        Pre-installed wrap https://www.neimanmarcus.com/p/rickie-freeman-for-teri-jon-beaded-cape-sleeve-satin-gown-prod253840384?childItemId=NMT3UGW_&colorKey=Gray&navpath=cat000000_cat000001_cat58290731_cat43810733_cat35350732&page=0&position=24

      3. I would not worry about being cold in September in MD. It’s going to be blazing hot and super humid. Maybe in the evening it’ll cool down but you’ll be in the tent by then anyway.

    12. first of all congrats on both kids getting married! no offense to your daughter, but metallic on the beach seems a bid odd to me, that being said, check out the brand La Femme maybe something like this: https://www.nordstrom.com/s/la-femme-off-the-shoulder-ruched-satin-trumpet-gown/5329376?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FDresses&fashioncolor=Grey&color=040 or https://www.nordstrom.com/s/la-femme-floral-embroidered-mesh-a-line-gown/5329383?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FDresses&fashioncolor=Grey&color=410 or https://www.nordstrom.com/s/la-femme-surplice-off-the-shoulder-column-gown/6622562?origin=coordinating-6622562-0-3-PDP_1-recbot-also_viewed_graph&recs_placement=PDP_1&recs_strategy=also_viewed_graph&recs_source=recbot&recs_page_type=product&recs_seed=5329376&color=PEWTER or

      1. That was my initial thought too, but on reflection I think it will be awesome. Everyone will be wearing glittery sea colors that will complement the natural surroundings.

    13. Hobbs is a British brand that makes lovely dresses, but their returns are ridiculously bad. You can buy Hobbs at Bloomingdales. Also, Teri Jon makes great dresses. I love the idea of a cape to go over your dress…so fun, and a bit of drama.

      1. I have no need for any of these – my kids are in elementary school – but i love threads like these! Good luck to the OP!

    14. I don’t have any specific suggestions but I would caution against anything that will show sweat very badly. September in MD will be hot and humid, you’re going to be drenched as soon as you step outside. I would do a little test on the fabric to see how badly sweat will show – wet a hem or something.

      1. I didn’t expect much when you said “velvet puffer” but that’s actually very cute.

        How do you wear it?

        1. I wore it over all my dressy clothes all through the holiday season (from pleather pants to tulle skirts and sparkly tops) and got tons of compliments on it and was divinely warm the whole time!

  3. I think I’m ready for some lug-soled (but not comically lug-soled) loafers for spring. I’d love it if these were more “executive lug-soled loafers” vs something that looks like you’d wear it clubbing or for stomping on giant bugs. Triangular duck feet narrow heels so a soft leather that will deal with the one foot that is a B+ in width (but is too narrow to be wide). Do I trust myself with suede? IDK. Our springs are very rainy.

    1. I have feet like yours and I ended up buying Linea Paolo oxfords, because I don’t trust loafers to stay on my heel. The style I bought is Marcy. For loafers, I noticed that Sam Edelman and Franco Sarto have styles in the look you want. I love Cole Haan quality but most of their shoes are too narrow in the toe box for me.

    2. Old school, but look at the Bass Weejuns. They have some thicker soled options, but they’re so classic that I think you can easily get away with the stompier versions.

      1. Oh, Weejuns. So many choices? Where do we fall on horsebit-type hardware vs kiltie vs penny-slot? Choices are great except when the analysis paralysis sets in.

        1. I live in MA and enjoy preppy aesthetic so I’m a penny loafer/tassel girl myself.

    3. Maybe check Talbots? I got some nice loafers there last spring, with a lug sole that made them current, but not ridiculous. And they’re good quality, far as I can tell.

      For the narrow heel issue, have you tried the cushions that you stick on the inside of the shoe, along the curve of the back of the shoe? I find those help with heel slipping.

    5. Check out the Dr. Scholls Webster loafer. They’re synthetic but I don’t find them sweaty and the upper is soft. Mildly lug-soled. I don’t trust myself with suede either.

    6. I have the Sam Edelman Teagan loafers and I get compliments every time I wear them. They’re patent leather and hold up really nicely in bad weather.

    8. I am a duck footed, usually a pricey shoe kind of person who prefers classic styles. I have a pair of black patent lug sole loafers from Naturalizer that I love. I also looked at some from Aerosoles. I didn’t get any to try from there so I can’t speak to that brand but they have several cute styles.

  4. What is one thing you thought adulting would be like you were completely wrong about?

    I’ll go first. I grew up on NBC soap operas, so I thought that vow renewals were a thing that couples just did. Like who ever has really done this (maybe people who get caught cheating and have country music songs written about them)?! It used to be “oh, so romantic” and now just the idea is an ickfest.

    Also: I thought that quicksand would be something to be prepared for. Hasn’t been the problem that I thought it would be.

    1. I thought I’d be able to afford buying a home in the city on a 6 figure income as a single 30 something. HAHA.

      1. Editing to add that I AM a 30 something who earns a 6 figure income, but I can’t afford to buy a home where I live (DC)

      2. Curious — is that a factor of housing cost relative to income (or, what I fear: school debt eats up all of your cash and keeps you from saving or having a large house payment). 50/50?

        One thing that I hope happens with WFH is that people can live where housing is affordable and have the life they want and not be tied to giant cities with eye-popping housing costs for places with shared basement laundry (I get that things are expensive and did not expect as a child that expensive things would be of shockingly bad QOL as a resident).

        1. I have very little savings due to some bad choices in my twenties and the astronomical cost of rent here. And I’m not tied to the DC area only because of my job…it’s my home and I don’t see myself living anywhere else. But any halfway decent home here is very expensive, with a $500-$1,000/month HOA fee on top of it. These years of renting are my choice I guess, because I have no desire to go live in some random suburb for cheaper housing. I’m just saying I didn’t expect this when I was younger.

        2. Also curious. Could go back to school but am not sure I’d be any better off for it. I feel like my inner voice is alternatively defeatist and yet brutally honest (six figures of school debt will not make my life better unless I get a job that pays stupid $ and I can hang onto that job without it making my miserable long enough to pay off my school debt — it is like the hamster wheel just spins faster but doesn’t spin better).

        3. I grew up in NYC and have always lived here so maybe I don’t get it, but I really don’t get the complaint about shared basement laundry. I can run 4+ loads at once, and have a jumbo sized machine for my comforter, and when one of the washers is broken the most I have to do is text the super to tell him. If I could only run one load at a time I feel like I would be doing laundry constantly. I think it just goes to show that different people like different things — having a SFH and having to drive everywhere is also my nightmare.

          1. I grew up outside of NYC and my first apartment experience wasn’t SATC but strangers who left their damp wash in the washer or dryer when you desperately needed it. And no basket to put it in. I still hoard quarters even though everything has gone to swipe card. I always blocked out a night for laundry, which was fine until work started having too many unscheduled emergencies. In my will, I will need to get 40+ pairs of underwear and 20+ black tights disposed off because laundry trauma is real and lasting.

          2. In most other cities, only the worst rentals don’t have in-unit laundry. Like ones that are actively dangerous, so you wouldn’t want to use them anyway or with shocking deferred maintenance. It’s a red flag for a lot of people when they first move to NYC because it’s just not done other places. OTOH, I grew up with clotheslines (and I wonder if they will come back as people become more intentionally green).

          3. In unit laundry (vs. coin op laundry having to use a wash and fold place) and having a dishwasher/garbage disposal are probably the ‘amenities’ that I appreciated the most after I moved out of NY. Yes, it is faster to do 4 loads at once, but not having to have quarters/not timing the loads to move them to the dryer/not having to hand wash everything was SO luxurious to me. Our realtor thought I was nuts because after years of living in tiny places with awful kitchens every rental we saw (especially new construction places) was SO nice to me.

          4. The current version of shared basement laundry ought to have an app. You can look at it and see how much time is left on the cycle. You can set it to alert you right before your laundry’s cycle ends. I think it’s thanks to the app that my building has very little issue with laundry left sitting in washers or dryers. Or perhaps I just live with considerate people.

          5. FYI – I have never had in-unit laundry when I lived in Boston, Chicago or San Francisco. I lived in older buildings but no…. in-unit laundry was not the norm. In San Francisco, I didn’t even have laundry in my building, and walked to a tiny unstaffed laundromat in the middle of residential houses/buildings in Cole Valley.

            Your personal experience is way way different than mine. And no….. I didn’t live in ?actively dangerous areas.

          6. Oh hey I too did laundry at a tiny unstaffed laundromat in Cole Valley. For 10 years! We may have done laundry together, haha. I had to buy a place to get in-unit washer/dryer.

        4. For me its the cost of housing in the city – I could easily afford an apartment or small house in the suburbs or in another part of the country but prices are just so much higher in my city.

      3. I am a 45 year old single person with a six figure income (and I like my job!) and can’t afford a single family home in my desired neighborhood. Luckily I own a condo, but I struggle to think that I need a husband in order to achieve this dream. Very tough for people with one income, even if that income is solid and there are no kids in the picture.

        1. Yes, this. So many people wouldn’t be where they are today housing wise if they were single.

        2. +1 it was a struggle to buy a condo as a single person with a 6 figure income in a HCOL city. Even the smallest condos are $500K+ plus another $500-1000 monthly condo fee.

      4. Oh man it’s the single part that’s the kicker— I have a good job and savings so was able to buy a house where I wanted, but had to go tiny fixer upper. Competing against dual incomes is never something I even considered and it’s a real factor. (And, when you’re single you’re more likely to want to live in fun areas as opposed to buying the cheaper houses in the deep burbs)

      5. I bought with a sibling and that’s how we were able to get on the property ladder. We purchased in an area where we could always share a room and rent out the second bedroom in an emergency (so we wouldn’t have a forced sale). Years later, I can confirm it was worth the sacrifice of personal privacy as it gave us a good start and we saved tons by not renting and instead making our own place nice.
        We live separately now but are still friends.

    3. I lost a shoe to quicksand once so you never know!

      I thought glamorous women spend hours of time getting ready and maybe some of them do but I don’t think I would know how to take more 3o minutes to get my face and hair situated and that’s if I really take my time and do, like, face mask (i imagined I would just sit there at the make-up vanity powdering myself and spraying perfume everywhere from one of those comically impractical bottles).

      I also thought we would have way more houseguests than we actually do, but that may be more a function of my mother and her friends vs. me and my friends.

      1. I stepped in quicksand this summer! It was very quick – I was up to my hip on the right side. Thankfully it was more sand than mud and I was able to pull myself out.

          1. In the Nambe Falls area north of Santa Fe. I was exploring around a mostly-dry riverbed, which was my biggest mistake.

    4. I thought I’d hang out with my friends a lot more and things would be the same as they were but we’d have fancy jobs and houses and everything.

    6. I thought I would live next door to a best friend and we would do everything together like Lucy and Ethel. I barely know my neighbor names,

    7. That I’d throw dinner parties… that we’d be the kind of parents to go to society things and leave the kids at home with a sitter all the time… that I’d feel more grown up or sophisticated or something. All those TikToks who are like, “people say act your age, but I am – this is how Gen Z does middle age” speak to me so much.

    8. I thought I would have a close group of Friends and we would do everything together.

          3. I don’t have friends. I have always struggled with making them. I have one mentor that I occasionally spend time with and I go back to my hometown to see family sometimes.

          4. I have zero friends too. I’m 38 and have young kids. I’m friendly acquaintances with some other moms and could text them in an emergency, but I have no actual friendships and no idea how to get closer to anyone. It seems like everyone else makes friends with other moms organically and I just don’t. I’m introverted and was never a social butterfly, but I’m not an outcast and I had a friend group in high school and college so it feels weird to be this isolated. My parents live in the same city and my mom is honestly my best friend. I’m grateful to have her because many people my age have lost a parent, but it’s pretty pathetic that she’s my only real friend.

          5. What happened with your friends from high school and college. Could you reconnect with them, even if they’re long distance?

          6. I had some really close friends in college. Fast forward almost 20 years later, we waren’t in touch. Nothing ever happened, as in a falling out, we just live in different cities and grew apart. I would feel really weird reaching out to rekindle because no one has ever done that with me. It does make me sad though.

          7. I have one close friend from high school and two from college that I still talk to regularly, but two of them live across the country and one lives on a different continent. Most people have friends closer than 2,000 miles away.

          8. Anon at 1:27 – using your reasoning, could it be that none of your old friends have reached out to re-connect because no one has reached out to them? Take a risk! Take two! They may be waiting to hear from you!

        2. Yes, this. And it’s not like we have any reason to hope that it will get better. There is no next phase of life to meet more people in.

          1. My grandfather moved to a condo in a retirement community after my grandmother and almost all of his friends died. He lived there 11 years and made tons of friends.

          2. I would definitely want some sort of Golden Girls situation or adult dorm in my older years. Otherwise, I’d be one of those seniors in my neighborhood who grocery shops daily just for human contact.

          3. There is! My mom lives in an active senior apartment building in Florida and it’s like they are all freshman in college except the partying happens between 3pm and 7pm. The residents are from all over so everyone is looking to make a friend. There are group classes every day and people socializing in the common areas all the time. I will move in the moment I turn 55.

          4. OMG that is so not true!! I ran away from home at age 54 and made a whole circle of new friends including my amazing husband! Not gonna lie — it took some persistence and disappointments to meet my people, but once I did it was great. I highly recommend volunteer activities because that’s where you meet like-minded people.

            And my daughter just moved to a new city and is making a new community, too, at age 36. Honestly it’s possible at any age!

      2. You have to invest in friends to have them. This means doing things outside your “boundaries” like going on trips, going to showers, celebrating birthdays, etc. The number of times I see advice not to do these things and stick to some imaginary boundary in the name of mental health and the “I don’t have any friends” lament is head scratching.

        1. +100

          I’ve kind of become known as the friend who is down for just about anything. As a result, I’m many friends’ first calls when they have an extra ticket or an idea for something fun to do.

        2. I agree that everyone should expect to endure some activities that they don’t find intrinsically rewarding for the sake of friends (especially if they can see that it brings a lot of joy to other people).

        3. Plenty of us have “invested in friends” and done things outside our comfort zones only to have the friendships disappear anyway. I have been on plenty of girls’ trips, celebrated birthdays, gone to concerts/parties/festivals/etc. when I didn’t really feel like it. Still ended up seeing friends drift away or move away and not maintain contact. At this point, part of my problem is I am wary about investing too much time or effort into someone because I’ve done that in the past and the friendship turned into a situation where I got taken advantage of because I was “up for anything.”

          Also, I don’t know why it’s so much to ask that introverts who don’t like loud music, big parties, girls’ trips with 10 people in a house, etc. could have friends who like to do quiet things? That’s what I struggle with – finding someone who wants to go to a museum and have lunch vs. going out clubbing and getting sloppy drunk. In our 40s.

          1. There’s a big EQ component to this that you might be missing. Are you trying to keep up with people who don’t really click with you? If you’re truly quiet and introverted maybe you only need a few friends so look for those like you. Showing up is a big part of it, but so is understanding when there’s a click. That also comes with some vulnerability required and “not investing” means you’re probably closing yourself off.

          2. I think I often like people in conversational contexts without also enjoying the same activities they enjoy. So it can end up a bit one sided (I certainly don’t want a birthday party!).

            And I think it’s probably wise to be honest and realize that I can care about people without making my life revolve around a bunch of social outings I dread aside from the opportunity to be with people I care about? I guess it’s almost like that feeling of spending the holidays with dearly beloved family. I’m glad I spend that time with them, but I couldn’t do it every week or month!

          3. LMAO Anon at 11:24 – I always love the armchair psychoanalysis that goes on here. Thanks for the advice I didn’t ask for? I guess? Do you do this to everyone or just people here?

          4. I agree with you. In the past year, I’ve kinda of … stopped trying. I’d organize a get together or an outing, only for people to back out at the last minute for a variety of reasons. I’ve always been the organizer and glue, and now that I’ve backed off, nobody has really picked up that role. It really sucks. Friendship in my 40s is harder than I ever imagined. It’s partly because everybody is in a really busy stage of life. I get it. I’m there, too. But it’s hard to keep investing when you can never be sure when the other shoe is going to drop.

          5. I am a 40-something who wants a friend to have lunch and visit museums with. How do we find people like us IRL?

          1. Right. I would happily do this stuff but you have to have friends to get invitations like this. My problem isn’t keeping friends but making them. Totally separate issues. This advice is geared towards those who have problems keeping friends.

        5. I moved five years ago and I don’t have friends here. Part of that is COVID; a large part of that is that I “do friendship” differently. Around here, your friends are the people you do stuff with, and I’m used to having friends who are surrogate family. So I show up and do all the friendship maintenance things, but I am under no illusions that I would keep up if I moved again.

          Which is to say, depending on what you mean by “friendship,” it might make sense to skip the annoying shower, or it might make sense to suck it up and do it because this is a ride-or-die person.

        6. Hmm. Interesting, this was not my understanding of boundaries. I just remind myself that if I don’t say yes most of the time I’ll stop being invited. Boundaries are more like…how we deal when mil comes over uninvited or talks about our weight.

        7. As someone who takes mental health extremely seriously, I agree 1000%! If you want to have friends, you sometimes have to go places or do things that inconvenience you and cut into your alone time.

        8. Is this about the girls trip with three to a room and six to a bathroom the other day? No, you do not need to do these things to keep friends.

          I have many lifelong friends (I’m 58 and we’re actually getting to lifelong because, sadly, I’ve already outlived a handful) and I don’t do air bnb weekends with them. There is more than one way to do friendships. The big thing is remembering things that are important to your friends (ala birthdays, a couple of recent posts) and being there when they need you. Yes, you have to take time for your friends, absolutely, but you can still stay in your comfort zone.

      3. Same, I thought we would have a group of couple friends we could invite over for game nights, barbecues, etc. We had that for awhile, in our early 30s, but then all of the couples moved away and we have not been successful in making new connections that have lasted. We had some good connections when our son was younger that evaporated once he switched schools in middle school, and it seems like once kids get to middle/high school and don’t need playdates any more, parents are not as interested in connecting. Everyone is just too busy, or that’s what it seems like. It’s hard enough for me to make a new friend; then seeing if that person can bring their spouse into the situation and I can bring my spouse in and everyone will get along seems like an insurmountable obstacle.

        Sometimes I feel like we’re living on an island by ourselves and it feels lonely. I have already told my husband, if something happens to him, I am going to move to where my parents live or I have friends from high school in the city; I can’t stay here as I don’t have any real connections to anyone but him.

        1. I hear you. I am very fortunate that my family lives close enough that they can be my social life. Because it sure isn’t coming from my friends these days.

        2. My kids are both in college now, and those parent friendships have pretty much all fizzled away. They’re fun while you’re sitting in the stands together for a practice or a game or whatever, but they’re not necessarily lifelong.

          1. Interesting. My mom is not particularly outgoing by she’s in her 70s and her close friends are all people she met through me during the school age years.

    9. I thought I would host way more dinner parties/cocktail parties than I actually do (though I am trying to get back into the swing of hosting now!).
      I have also very, very rarely needed ‘desk to dinner’ fashion advice. In my 20’s when I was dating in NY and we’d meet up after work in bars everyone mostly just went in work clothes. At conferences/events people very rarely change before the cocktail hour unless it’s to swap into jeans, not go MORE formal.
      I also thought I’d feel more ‘adult’ than I do at my age, I strongly identify with that disney short of feeling like kids stacked up in a trenchcoat at work or at my kid’s school functions.

      1. My friends and I joke about how misled we were by magazines prepping us for “desk to dinner”. I have social plans after work 3 or 4 night a week. And, I just wear what I wore to work in a nicer business casual office. Or, if I do go home and change I’m also throwing on jeans!

        1. If I go home and get near my couch, it has the density of a black hole and sucks me into it and I will never leave it again. So I just go out as I am.

    10. I thought adults had it all figured out. Like one day I would just wake up and know what the heck I was doing. I am in my 40’s and don’t generally suffer from imposter syndrome but MAN… I sometimes still feel like I’m 23 and just making it up as I go and totally confused as to how I arrived at this point and where to go from here.
      Also, my mom was a teacher and had summers off (I realize now that she was not getting paid) and I really thought summers would always be full of fun. There’s fun, but an equal amount of fun vs winter months bc I have a 12 mo job.

    11. I thought men would ask me out in person. I’m in my 30’s and that has happened exactly zero times. They don’t even look at me and I’m conventionally not bad looking. They just put all their energy into online/app dating, it’s like the default.

      1. It’s not just you. This happened to me precisely 2 times in 40 years. Most of my friends have had 0 experiences like you.

    12. I thought adults were kinder and friendlier to each other than kids were. But when I grew up, I learned that adults are kinder to kids than they are to each other.

      1. I try to be kind to others but I am actively staying away from some crazy kid parents in my orbit. All other crazy adults I can deal with but they routinely boil my blood and I may need more botox b/c I’m sure they pull the RBF out of the frozen paralyzed muscles b/w my brows.

      2. I learned that in middle school, the one time my mom attempted to talk to my bullies’ parents and the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Of course they told their kids and it got incredibly worse.

      1. Post-pandemic when we were finally ok doing outside dining I’d text the friends we were meeting (or just give my husband a heads up) that I was SO sick of comfy clothes/sweats and that I was breaking out a fancy skirt/dress for dinner but not to feel any pressure to dress upthemselves. Nine times out of ten the women would also dress up and it felt like little kids in our first day of school clothes going ‘I love your twirly skirt!’ ‘Look at your fun shoes!’ etc. Dress up if you want to!

    14. That adulthood was a meritocracy and that if I just worked my ass off I’d get ahead in work and life.

        1. Yup. If I worked hard and played by the rules and did everything “right” I’d be fine.

      2. I firmly believe you need two types of mentors in your early career. The brilliant subject matter experts who teach/inspire you, and the maybe not as smart ‘people person’ who helps you understand how to network/understand and use firm ‘gossip’/helps promote you to the ‘right’ senior leaders/etc.

        1. True, I guess I was naive growing up that some folks are Sigourney Weaver’s character in Working Girl and I’m a Melanie Griffith.

    15. I thought about law school. And then I realized that unless I went to HYS (unlikely), I’d lose 3 years of working and rack up a lot of debt probably to make, if not net, what I currently make as a legal assistant (paralegal). So not expecting that. IDK how to grow into a JD-preferred role that is mentioned here with my experience so I can maybe have more of a career vs a job the way you all describe. But what I didn’t think of as a kid was that more schooling =/= better paying job. Often, you are worse off. I wish all of the glossy brochures from schools came with a disclaimer.

    16. Don’t yuck my yum! My husband and I do vow renewals a lot, it’s fun! No cheating involved. It’s a great way to celebrate an anniversary.

        1. I think it’s a fantastically concise way to get across a specific point. And the point is a good one.

        3. It’s nails on a chalkboard to me too, even though I don’t mind the sentiment behind it.

      2. I’m so curious what “a lot” means here – like, you throw a party and renew in public, regularly? I love it.

        My partner and I (not married, by choice) do repeat to each other very regularly that we choose each other but we’ve never had a public vow, I wonder if that counts? ;)

        1. Oh no, we’ve never done it publicly and we eloped the first time around! We had so much fun doing that and since we’ve done things like renew with Elvis in Vegas, renew on the beach in Hawaii and other coastal places. We dress up, sometimes hire an officiant, sometimes just DIY recite our original vows again. It’s cheesy and so much fun. We are talking about throwing a big anniversary party for our 15th since we eloped and that would be the first public time we’ve said vows (and we’d probably skip that part in front of people anyway).

          1. Cute!
            my parents renewed their vows at an Elvis chapel when I was in my 20s and it was amazing that we all got to be there. Good for you!

          2. You sound like real fun-havers and I would totally be friends with you!! We’ve never done a vow renewal but we dress up in our wedding outfits every year (okay, we did skip one in the depths of the pandemic) and we did a HUGE party for our 5th last year, complete with band and dancing, because why the heck not?

          3. Man. I was going to Vegas with a friend whose son is the same age as mine for a work conference. Was bringing husband so we could do a Elvis chapel renewal and we all had ridiculous 70s inspired outfits. Hubby was going to have fun with the boys during the conference, But my mom died right before so we canceled. It’s not the same to try again,

    17. I thought work life would be easier. I was an A student and skipped a grade. Magna cum laude. And I have struggled most of my career in low paying positions. I’m only a director now and work until 10 or later most nights. Very few vacations. It’s just all so disappointing and different from the “success” I thought I’d achieve.

    18. I would have thought my primary problems would be money, or my job, or my marriage … but those are all OK and pretty minor problems for me. Was completely blindsided by having a disabled child, though – it’s a plot twist I never saw coming and has derailed me significantly far from the person I thought I’d be in adulthood (and likely will continue to do so).

      1. Right there with you. ASD-1 is not a walk in the park (and yes, I am glad that my kid is potty trained and able to go to our neighborhood school). But it is also so, so hard for her and kids are so mean and all expectations for her are based on a neurotypical kid’s ability to handle and react and process, so until my kid is launched (whatever that means) well into adulthood, I am not sure it will happen and the my kid will just be miserable forever (her words). There are a million manuals for being pregnant and having a baby and absolutely nothing and no support group or group of peer parents for this.

        2. Go right now to AANE dot org and join, and sign up for a support group. It is a wonderful organization, and made life possible for my family with an ASD-1 son. Life is hard, and harder with a child with a non-visible learning disability.

        3. As someone with ASD-1 I really hope my parents never felt this way about me (admittedly I wasn’t diagnosed until adulthood). I’m by-far my parents most successful child, I have a 6 figure salary, own a house, and am happily married.

          1. I have a daughter with ASD-1, also diagnosed late. I’m glad that you are happy. Right now, my daughter is so miserable that I truly worry about leaving her alone. She shouldn’t have to be at summer camp as a high schooler and doesn’t need a nanny, but in a fit of misery, I worry that she would engage in self harm. She used to be happy. And it may be a combo of puberty, kids being very mean at school, lack of friends among her peers, but she was find during the pandemic and is now sinking and I want to scream because she is hurting and I cannot fix it and yet we are trying all of the recommended things. I’d love to relax and give it time, but it is hard to see her suffer.

          2. You may know this, but an awful lot of the recommended things for ASD-1 are known to increase misery (unfortunately). If you haven’t taken a step back and doubted the professionals yet, now may be the time to explore this possibility.

          3. Honestly it’s crappy that a parent is disclosing a really hard thing and you made it about you when it’s not about you at all.

          4. “If you haven’t taken a step back and doubted the professionals yet, now may be the time to explore this possibility.”

            What? So she’s supposed to just take the advice she’s gotten from professionals and throw it out the window and then…naturally intuit what she’s supposed to do? Go to a psychic who can tell her what to do? Use a Ouija board to ask the spirit world for advice? What kind of comment is this? Seriously asking.

          5. There are neurodiversity affirming professionals out there, but they can be harder to find and are still “against the grain” in educational and medical systems that are still invested in behavioral therapies (sometimes in disguised forms).

            It’s just a bit of a red flag when someone is trying the recommended things and it’s not going well, since it’s such a common issue that doctors, special ed teachers, and mental health professionals have been trained in approaches that are controversial precisely because they’ve caused a lot of suffering for ASD students.

          6. Also, having to question advice from professionals is nothing new for disabled people in general; the world and its systems generally weren’t designed with disabled people in mind; our conditions may have been minimally addressed in most of our physicians’ medical educations; and it can sometimes be hard to identify true experts based on credentials alone. The same e.g. physical therapist who is great for most of their patients might actually hurt us accidentally if they aren’t very familiar with our “special needs,” sometimes despite some well meaning lip service. We learn to double check contraindications, say “yes” to that optional pharmacy consult, run one doctor’s advice past another doctor or check UpToDate. It’s just a whole thing in general.

        4. It can get a lot better (partly because school seems specifically designed to make life miserable for ASD kids).

          I think it is a good idea to connect with support and hopefully a source of more like minded peers!

        5. I have a 7 year old with ASD-1, ADHD, sensory processing disorder, and anxiety. He’s struggling. We’re all struggling. It’s so hard to know what to do.

      2. Thanks to how the world has treated my disabled child, I now think that DEI is a huge crock of shite. It’s like whatever greenwashing is for a large community that deals with awful stigma and it’s like the last prejudice that it’s OK to have (so-and-so didn’t look me in the eye during an interview– fail! can’t handle a recruiting lunch — fail!). “DEI, but only if you look cute on our recruiting brochure.”

        1. I think the idea of equal opportunity has been that obstacles to meritocratic advancement should be removed, with the result that there’s a fair distribution at every rank of a hierarchy of success outcomes. (Obviously we’re very far from achieving so much as this, so it’s understandable that it’s a goal!)

          But disabled people are still thought to deserve poor outcomes fair and square because they can’t compete on every metric. (And disability can conveniently be used an excuse to justify poor outcomes among elsewise marginalized people!)

        2. Right there with you on this. As a disabled academic, I find it infuriating to have to write DEI statements to get jobs while not being able to ask about how they’ll discriminate against me. I don’t disagree that DEI is a worthwhile goal, I just think the way it’s being implemented is kind of a joke. It’s all about superficial impressions and not about doing anything that would make actual changes in who has power.

        3. Ahhhh I feel like we need a subgroup of r*ttes with disabled kids! So much of the teen and emtpy nest discussions are not relevant to my situation (2 ASD kids, pretty severe)

        4. The implementation in my kids’ school district of DEI seems to be all D & E, no I. There’s also a positive phobia of reducing anything to numbers because the numbers might actually conflict with the happy talk being pushed out by the powers that be.

      3. I hear you. I have a son and daughter who are both ASD level 1 with ADHD. It’s a very full on experience. What worked best was a small catholic school with small class sizes of 10-15 children. They are able to meet their needs academically which makes it easier to manage the emotional component.

        Ross Greene changed their lives. The approach has worked so well for our children. Medication never worked and we have been script free for 5 years now. My life is very dull because the children need a very structured schedule.

    19. That having a desk-to-dinner wardrobe was a thing I would need. Have been in the professional world for 20 years at this point, and no. That is not a thing.

      I also thought adult life would be more glamorous in general. Parties, lots of socializing, etc. Which is super funny to me because now that I’ve figured out I’m an introvert, that all sounds terrible, lol. I do wish I had more everyday contact with my close friends. It just doesn’t happen unless everyone makes a big effort.

    20. I am baffled by a lot of these responses. I’m currently mulling over my closet because I need a “desk to dinner” outfit tonight and my dining room has some wilting flowers in it from last weekend’s dinner party, which is a regular feature. I imagined a grownup life as a kid and decided to live one. It was a big factor for me in choosing not to have kids, however.

      1. As far as the desk-to-dinner thing goes, I think this is definitely dependent on geography! Where I live (large college town), it is just not a thing that happens.

      2. I socialize and entertain a lot, but not often in ways seen on TV!

        Like, I live walking distance to many friends but I’ve never lived in the same building as them.

        I meet up with friends after work several nights a week, but we don’t do anything requiring a “desk to dinner” outfit.

        I have people over, host parties, and go out to dinner but rarely need to get more dressed than jeans. My friends and I get dressy for weddings, new years (which is just a house party) and one dinner a year and that’s it.

        Other differences include that I never have glamorous after hours work functions (I am a public servant but 13 Going On 30 made me think this was normal!) and that my friends and I rarely go out for dinner (it’s too expensive to do all the time).

        But I do agree with you that having a “fun” or “glamorous” life is mostly a choice and I too have chosen to pursue it. I often am walking home and think yo myself “wow I really am living the city life I’d dreamed about”

      3. I mean, I had that life and it was wonderful. But then I got married. Having an SO means having to be home most nights and not inviting people over without accounting for his schedule and his preferences (and his allergies – no flowers in the house!). Our shared life looks different than the one I envisioned as a kid because that SATC lifestyle is really a single women’s life.

        1. But it doesn’t have to look like that just because you’re married! I’m married too and my husband also loves entertaining with me, dressing up to go out and living a big city life. That was all important to both of us and a big factor in our compatibility.

        2. What? I’ve been married for 23 years. I used to go out after work all the time. Tuesdays were the regular night because they had 1/2 off wine across the street, but if another occasion popped up like someone’s birthday or promotion or just someone wanted to get a drink, I would do that too. And we had kids. My husband was happy to do a little solo parenting to give me an opportunity to socialize.

          Marriage does not have to be a death sentence.

          1. (I only say used to because none of us work in that office anymore post-pandemic. I still get together with current or former colleagues at the drop of a hat, though it tends to be lunches these days.)

        3. Huh? I’m married and still do lots of these things. We even have kids and manage.

          I’m confused by this. Being married doesn’t mean an end to your social life

          1. +1

            But also if I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard “I’m married, so I don’t need other friends” I’d have more money than I should!

            My friends are just starting to settle down, but the few married ones are still fun. My parents have been married 33 years and have always had a strong social life, even when they had little kids.

      4. I think that just means that what you wanted adult life to be when you were young and what you want it to be now hasn’t changed. I don’t get the sense that most commenters here are longing for an imagined future in which they needed desk to dinner outfits…they’re just reflecting on how life took them in a direction where that wasn’t relevant to them. It’s not about imagining an adult life and making it happen – it’s about how the idea of adult life changes over time.

        1. Exactly this! Like, I really don’t care that I don’t have desk-to-dinner moments. It’s funny to me that that’s what my teenage-self thought adulthood was.

      5. I feel like that’s definitely the exception! Even when I had Fancy Job in Big City on the rare days we could get away after work you just wear whatever you wore to work that day and got dinner and drinks or went to the theater or whatever— what circumstances cause you to change outfits?

        1. Oh that’s the point – you don’t change outfits but have to figure out a look for day that goes into night. Like I today I ended up in wide leg slacks, great boots, and a silky blouse under a blazer. Statement earrings in my purse and I did my hair and makeup.

    21. I thought it would be really easy to be successful in your career – like somehow I thought I’d be a VP at 30 (which was so old when I was a kid!). I think it’s from all those sitcoms like Living Single where everyone was in their late 20s but partners in their law firm/owned a successful magazine/was a I-bank exec. Now watching old episodes I’m amazed at how detached from reality it all was.

      1. I love that you referenced Living Single. :-)

        I thought my life would be much more glamorous. There were a couple years right after law school where it kind of was but that was a decade ago at this point.

    23. As a teen/young 20 something I assumed with my natural abilities and sufficient effort I would easily access both power and influence in my field and high compensation. I failed to account for sexism, the opportunity costs of moving for opportunities vs reinforcing local networks, the opportunity costs of some opportunities vs others, the role of favoritism in the workplace, and that the more I experienced, happiness in my workplace is typically the trade off for those factors.

    24. I thought that if I was a solid human – kind, honest, worked on myself, developed hobbies, reasonably fit/pretty – that someone would love me and I would not have to do life completely alone.

      1. Hug.

        I feel like somehow the really kind people got left out of marriage… like they just have the worst time trying to find someone who appreciates them.

    25. If you’re a real housewives fan, you know that when a couple has a vow renewal, they will be divorced within a year.

      1. 100%! I can’t think of a single instance where they renewed their vows and didn’t get divorced very soon after.

    26. I thought I’d be married to my college boyfriend forever, I thought I’d never had kids, I thought when I was a grownup I’d wear my hair in an elegant updo all the time, I thought I’d be an academic type and not a business type, and I thought I’d live in a suburban tract home.

      None of this came true!

    27. I thought it would be linear — you go to college, get a job, get married, have kids, they grow up, and everything just progresses in a straight line. Boy, was I wrong about that! My life has had twists and turns and stages and setbacks and surprises and it’s been notable for how non-linear it’s been. One thing I’ve learned is that life has phases and if you don’t like the one you’re in, it won’t (or doesn’t have to) last forever. (And if you DO like the phase you’re in, appreciate it because it’s likely not going to last forever, either!)

    28. I thought owning a home would be responsible and glamorous and did not once consider the time commitment of the never-ending repairs (and waiting for tradespeople to complete them).

      I assumed my partner and I would grow and change together, and felt totally unprepared for the way we changed in ways that were really different from another, and how hard it’s been to adjust our relationship for who we are now.

  5. Good morning! For those who have kids, how did you know when you were ready? I am particularly nervous about pregnancy (I have general health anxiety related to cancer at age 21 and know pregnancy obviously causes various new symptoms) and also how the heck would I know what to do to be a good parent. My husband and I are 27/28 currently in a stable and loving marriage. We want kids eventually but don’t feel ready…but does anyone ever feel completely ready? How do you know when you’re ready enough?? Will cross post this!

    1. Not the question you asked, but I might encourage you to have a good talk with your doctor about it sooner rather than later to triage, given the cancer history, what your pregnancy journey require. It would also not be a bad idea to check if there will be any male infertility issues as well, so that those can be addressed now rather than when you are looking at the clock in your mid-30s. I say this knowing many people who waited to try until their mid-30s, and got surprises that would have had more options if they were younger when they started.

    2. DH and I were certain about wanting kids, but weren’t sure of timing. In roughly our second year of marriage we decided we’d likely never be 110% for ready (financially, perfect job timing, etc) because we didn’t actually know what parenting was like so couldn’t really truly know what “ready” meant. Married at 30 FWIW. We also decided we were fine with giving up clubbing into the wee hours of the morning, since we hadn’t done that more than a few times ever anyway. [That was our proxy for “things we couldn’t do very often if we had kids.”] In short, we were ready *enough,* and knew we couldn’t just wave a magic wand to have the stork deposit a baby so needed to make it happen.

      1. This sums up my experience as well. We married at 32/33 and knew we wanted at least a year before kids, which we got. IDK if I ever felt “ready” but we knew that we had things like enough income to cover daycare expenses and flexible jobs.

    3. I’m also a cancer survivor and the big question for me is your fertility situation. Infertility is a common side effect of chemo/radiation (although not all chemo/radiation). So that would be the #1 factor for me in your situation. Even with cancer related infertility, fertility treatment has better success rates the younger you are so if you want kids I’d be inclined to start trying ASAP.

      This gets asked a lot on this board and the comments will fall into two camps. Camp 1 is “you don’t know if you will need to do fertility treatment, so start trying ASAP because if it happens to you it will be distressing and you’ll need the time.” Camp 2 is “everyone says to start trying ASAP but I got pregnant immediately and infertility impacts a small number of people so no reason not to wait as long as you want.”

      It’s a question of what you would personally find more challenging. Trying now, and getting pregnant immediately? Or postponing, and needing to do fertility treatment or possibly never having kids? Fertility treatment is not a cure all – many people pursue fertility treatment and it is ultimately unsuccessful.

      1. Infertility does not impact a small number of people and numbers are increasing each year.

    4. CW: Cancer
      Everyone’s journey is so different. I was ready for a kid the second we said marriage vows three years ago. My husband wanted us to have a house. We waited for that, which was possible for us because of two tech salaries. The timing was good (baby came just after I got promoted!) and arguably terrible (cancer diagnosis three months after). I wouldn’t do anything differently.

      I don’t know what your journey involved, but I actually think the experience of having cancer gave me skills for both pregnancy and raising a child. I wish I had known I could ask for Zofran. I wish in general I had known how to advocate for myself in the medical system. I wish I had been better prepared to handle uncertainty. All of those came of necessity with lymphoma.

      If you want to talk more, I’m corporetteburner@gmail.com.

    5. A switch went off for me shortly after I turned 30. I just had sudden clarity that I wanted to start the parenting stage of my life. FWIW I got married very young, so we had already been married 7 years and gone through grad school/law school/ getting careers established at that point. I would have told you I was nowhere near ready at 27/28 when I was just graduating law school. It ended up taking me a little over a year to conceive, so I had my 1st baby the same month I turned 32 and it ended up being very good timing for me career-wise. But, you are right, nothing can actually prepare you for the seismic life shift that comes with parenthood!

      I had my second baby at 35 after 2 miscarriages in between. It feels good to be done having kids now that I’m in my 2nd half of my 30’s. I think it would have been even harder taking so long to conceive my first and then having the miscarriages if I didn’t feel like I still “had time” fertility-wise. At the same time, the majority of my college and law school friends did not have their first until 35 and they are all very happy with that choice! They did end up feeling that click/clarity like I did, just a bit later.

      All this to say- you have plenty of time, and likely one day it will click that you want to get started on this new stage of life whether you’re “ready” or not :)

    6. I got married at 26. DH and I knew we wanted “more than one, less than 5” kids, eventually. When I was 28, I did math with DH. If we wanted 3-4 kids and I wanted to be done by 35, we’d have to get going. We pulled the goalie a few months later. I didn’t get pregnant! It took some focus on timing and about 7 months. I had my first at 29. Had my second at 32 after 8 months of trying.
      We decided to have 3 so when my middle turned one we started trying since it took so long with the first two.

      Pregnant on the first try; kids are 19 months apart. Had that one when I just turned 34.

      We are now 40 and all 3 are in elem school (one is almost in middle school!). They will be out of college when we are still in our 50s. I have a friend that just had a baby at 43. It happens!

    7. My .02 does t really involve readiness. If you know you want kids and you’re really certain your husband is the person you want them with, have them sooner rather than later. You’ll get to enjoy much more later adult life with adult children if you have them now. The longer you wait, the less time you’ll have to enjoy them as adults, which is the best part, IMHO.

      1. Also it’s great to have them up and out while you’re still young enough to be out and about as a couple.

    8. I started having kids based solely on timing. I didn’t wait to feel “ready” and never had baby fever. Had my first at 29.

      Honestly if you are married and want kids, I say pull that goalie right now.

      1. Current pregnancy, expecting my first 3 months before I turn 30! I was feeling sort of excited/ready for the next phase of life but no big “switch.” We think we want 3-4 kids and my mom went through unexplained early menopause at 40, so I didn’t want to wait and end up struggling. Also we are queer so knew we’d already need at least some level of RE intervention. Many of my friends and colleagues waited until much later–commonly the first at about age 34-36 I’d say. On the other hand, I don’t know many folks who want more than 2 kids!

    9. I got married at 35, DH was 39. He really really wanted kids. Based on my age and a shared desire to have more than 1, it was time to start trying. We have 2 kids. He wanted more, I did not. While I had wanted the kids 2 years apart, due to my job change, they are 3 years apart. I won the lottery on fertility and only took 3 months to get pregnant the first time, 1 try on the second. (But had risky pregnancies both times, so that was a different stress.)

      1. If you want kids and a career, pull the trigger. I have found in my friend/peer group, that you need to have kids around 30 or around 40 if you want to grow your career and parent. The early moms like me were able to pull back professionally for a little while to get our little people launched and then lean back into growing careers. The 40s moms were established in their careers and didn’t have to sacrifice leadership because they were already established. The 35 year old first time moms pretty consistently make less money because the mommy break was right in the middle of their salary growth trajectory kicking off and they just didn’t seem to recover.

        That may be something that’s changing, but I still think it’s a factor to consider.

        1. This is so accurate for me. I had kids at 36 and 39. I was not yet truly established in my career due to a meandering career path. I got mommy tracked with the first – given less intense matters during the first year back – and mommy tracked myself after the second, pulling back on my hours to a more manageable 40/45 hr wk. Definitely slowed down/ derailed my career progression. I do not wish I had waited longer because of the physical intensity of being a parent. But would have been nice if I had been able to start earlier, especially considering I was in a committed relationship with DH since I was 28, just didn’t get around to marriage + kids till 35/36.

    10. If I were in your position, I would look at the next few years. It is hard to knock or out of the park at work while pregnant and recovering from pregnancy. Are you looking for a promotion or new job? Can you really dig down and get moving forward so you can coast when pregnant?

      Is there any travel you would like to do? There is something to planning a big fun trip before trying for kids. (Sure some people travel with kids, but some hate it. I enjoyed our last hurrah, a spontaneous trip out to the Rocky Mountains.) You may not get it out of your system entirely, but having some adventures before kids is great.

      Do you want to space out your kids? I discourage people from having a very specific plan (“I want two kids, one when I’m 31, the next when I’m 33, natural childbirth for both, br3astfeed for one year”) because life often doesn’t work like that. But if you think that you would like to space kids, the best thing you can do is start early.

    11. I was ready when my hormones told me I needed a baby right this instant, and I’ve never regretted the choice. I was 29 when it hit me. For long, sad reasons, my two living children were born when I was 36 and 37. Not a single regret other than the sad stuff.

    12. If you can swing the cost, I would look into egg/embryo freezing. It can give you peace of mind and if you have trouble conceiving without assistance later on, you’re halfway done with the process anyway.

  6. Speaking of dresses, has anyone tried the Erica dress from MM LaFleur, made from “recycled wondertex”? I like the shape – pear friendly – but am not confident about the fabric. Don’t like scuba fabric, and am wondering if this wondertex has a similar feel/touch factor. I tend toward natural fabrics but do love a heavy ponte, as it is so forgiving. If you have this dress or know this fabric, would appreciate your thoughts.

  7. I need help supporting a friend. My best friend since childhool is experiencing some real mental health challenges right now in addition to being very unhappy with his life for legitimate but totally changeable reasons (we’re 34, he still lives at home, works for his parents’ medical practice , has no other friends and just really wants a life of his own. I know he’s struggling with depression for sure and maybe other things. We live in the same city.

    I feel so far out of my depth here- how do I be a good friend and help him? I’ve been finding fun things to do on weekends and when schedules work out we go out, sometimes he wants to talk and I listen (I actually suggested he get help and he did which is a great step. he will probably go on medication soon). and I emphasize that I’m here from him etc. I know I can’t solve this for him, but how can I be the best friend possible?

    1. One thing I try to do with people (and am currently doing with one of my teens going through this) is based on reading multiple times in real news sources that moderate exercise and getting out into nature is as good as medicine for helping with mental health. And it certainly does no harm. So we go on easy hikes / nature walks a lot and it seems that looking ahead (vs at each other) helps make convos less awkward. Plus, time and attention from another human is a gift. So maybe something like that? You can’t solve anything, but you can care for the soul a bit.

      2. Someone here mentioned that walking, looking around, and talking simulates EMDR (or vice versa), and I found that fascinating

        1. Or perhaps EMDR simulates the walking, looking around, and talking in a natural environment that our bodies/minds evolved to expect and rely upon for nervous system regulation. Interesting to think about! My ADHD, anxiety, and depression all greatly improve with regular walks in nature. Yet, with my schedule as a lawyer and mother with young kids, I just can’t find the time for it except for weekends.

    2. You might include him in events with other people instead of just 1:1 — the more people he meets the more friends he can make outside of you and interests he can develop; maybe even a romantic partner. You could also sample things that could be new social interests, like charity organizations, local clubs, or group outdoor activities like baseball teams or running groups.

    3. It sounds like you are already doing a lot. This is one of those situations where I get pretty wary – particularly because of gender roles – that you are going to do all this work FOR him and not actually help him. But maybe I’m a jerk.

        1. If this was just about a walk she wouldn’t be expending the physical and emotional energy to not only think about it a lot but also post to a message board and solicit ideas. Surely you can see that?

  8. Last week there was a poster who wasn’t interested in s3x when it was so cold outside. I’m the same way with exercise – happy (okay, happyish) to exercise when it’s warm out, but when it’s cold I just want to snuggle up and not put on chilly workout clothes. Any tips? Maybe everyone just deals with it and I’m being a baby.

    1. Get comfier workout clothes. Sweatpants and sweatshirts are cozy (gap has some nice ones) but still totally something you can exercise in. In the winter I find sweatpants much comfier to put on than leggings at least

    2. When it’s really cold (below freezing) the blocker for me is that I don’t want to walk to the gym, but once I’m there it’s bright and warm and I like that I’m there. What is it that’s the blocker for you?

      1. Not the OP, but I also dread exercising when it’s cold out. For me, it’s that I hate being cold and it’s changing into workout clothes that is the blocker. For example, I have a Peloton at home so I don’t need to go outside in the winter to exercise, but changing into bike shorts and a sports bra is a hurdle. I can’t work out in heavier/warmer clothes because I know once I actually warm up I will be sweating and extra hot. So, I need to wear exercise gear that I will be cold in until I get through the warm up. What I’ve started doing is wearing bike shorts, a sports bra and a warm sweatshirt. I start out in the bike freezing but the sweatshirt helps. By the time I warm up I can take off the sweatshirt and toss it aside while I complete the rest of the workout.

    3. It’s harder to get going in the winter months! Maybe put your workout clothes in a warm dryer for 5 minutes before putting them on? Bribe yourself with the promise of a warm beverage after your workout? And, honestly, I do a lot more home workouts in the winter than I do other times of the year because sometimes I just don’t want to leave the house.

      1. You know, the dryer could work. The sweats suggestion above makes sense, but this is generally yoga so I do leggings and a tank, otherwise I get too warm once I get started. But putting my base clothes and a top layer to start in the dryer could solve it!

        1. Or, even easier, stick them under the blankets with you before you go to bed.

    4. Would it be easier to try working out at home, even w little/no equipment? I bought a rowing machine for just this reason. Once it was dark by 5pm and below 50 (I’m a wuss, I know), getting out of the house was really hard. I can motivate for a 30 min workout in my pjs way easier than for a 30 min workout that requires opening my door and going anywhere at all, even just a run around the block.

    5. One of the many benefits of mostly working from home is I’ve started taking walks at lunch in the winter to get sunshine+peak warmth time for exercise (though admittedly I live in the South, where it doesn’t get bitterly cold. We haven’t even had snow yet this year). So if you can swing a midday workout, I recommend it.

    7. There are free online “pajama” workouts (pilates and barre mostly) where you truly don’t have to change.
      Also, just knowing that getting my blood pumping will warm me up is enough, does that not work for you?

    8. You can work out in warm snuggly clothes! There is absolutely no rule that says you have to wear spandex and a sports bra – just do something a bit less rigorous. You can dance in your living room, go for a leisurely walk in the neighborhood, do squats, etc, all in the same loungewear you’re in to scroll Instagram on the couch. I heard a tip recently: “Go for a walk in what you’re wearing right now.” It was astonishingly simple, but it made an impression on me because sometimes I feel like for whatever reason I can’t go for a walk in my Ann Taylor shirt and slacks that I’m wearing for work – but I totally can!

  9. Are there any estate planning attorneys on this board? We had our wills done five years ago and some relatively minor but important things have changed (our named executor has passed away; we want to update the designated guardian for our kids). The attorney who did it would do minor revisions for a flat $150 fee, but he has closed his solo practice and retired. Is this something we could update ourselves, just substituting names, and have a notary witness? Or is it the sort of thing where you need an attorney to do it even though it’s minor? Or other cost-efficient ways to get this done? (I’ve called a few new ones and they seem to have a minimum of at least $500 for an initial appointment.) We are in northern VA if that matters or if anyone has recommendations.

    1. Don’t do it yourself! I would get a new lawyer since you’ll need one anyway in the future as things change! Also, how do the assets pass to your kids if both you and your spouse die? If just in custodial accounts, think about whether having a continuing trust for the kids makes more sense so they don’t get all of the $$$$ all at once at age 18/21. (Note, I am an estate planning attorney)

      1. This is spot on. You need a new lawyer anyway because you’ll continue to need to update as things change. Local laws are also tricky and this isn’t something to screw up to save a few bucks. $500 is nothing in the scheme of things.

    2. You could likely buy a Nolo Press book for “Estate Planning for Your State” and confirm the witness requirements (many states require 2 witnesses, neither of whom stands to inherit). Mere swapping of names likely does not require an attorney. Anything else, I would engage counsel, making clear that you want minor changes only. Note that if you get new counsel, you are paying for them to review what was already done, as they will not be familiar. So $500 is not a rip-off–they have to tailor their advice to where you are currently.

    3. Just get a lawyer. This is important enough not to screw up. Would you DIY your own Botox?

    4. It’s been five years. You should also update your DPOA and health care proxies; companies and hospitals can get squeamish when presented with old documents. (The institution doesn’t know if there is a newer document out there that takes precedence; if you update every five to ten years, the institution has something that is new enough and they can feel confident that it is the correct document.)

      Ask your former attorney for a referral. He may be able to provide someone who would do a codicil and new DPOA/HCP, rather than redoing the entire plan.

    6. I am a T&E lawyer, and I always recommend hiring a lawyer for estate planning matters vs. doing it yourself. No great advise for getting it done cost-efficiently though….I work at a big law firm, so $500 sounds like an absolute steal to me.

    7. I agree with the other posters that this is something not to do yourself and to find another lawyer so that you have an established relationship with one for future matters as well. I’d try a small or solo practice outside of a large city or bigger suburb if you are looking to keep your costs low. Small town lawyers generally charge much less for the same work, especially for something that is basically redoing a simple will.

    8. I recently helped my father with this. He is…. cheap, and thought it seemed ridiculous to hire a lawyer for a simple name change. He was changing the order of his Power of Attorney (kids listed in different order).

      So I looked around, but basically EVERYONE wanted to check/re-do the entire Will/Estate plan. They don’t want their name associated with something that they don’t oversee completely, for liability reasons. And also they double check to be sure there are no new law changes relevant to you since you last did your paperwork.

      We paid less than $500 because his community had a lawyer that volunteered part time for the Senior Center specifically to help out Elders with legal assistance, at modest rates. She was very patient and got the job done, but wasn’t good enough to use long term so I had to find another Estate lawyer later when my father passed. So as the other posters said…. you need to find a new lawyer anyway for long term, so it is good to spend a little time / $ now for this.

  10. Do you have a personal motto or something you tell yourself repeatedly when you need motivation or encouragement? I think I need one haha

    2. Eat the frog. Which I apparently say a lot because my 5 year old informed my dad “I better go clean up my toys, eat the frog and all that…”

        1. I am free! They left Tuesday am. I was only grouchy once “you should do x” “we literally cannot afford to do that…” and my husband and I didn’t yell at each other, we just laughed.

          They are perfectly nice people, and his mum is fine on her own but his stepmom, oof… everything a drama. Don’t come to Scotland in January if you hate the cold.

    3. I tell myself: You will feel so much better if you finish the thing. Imagine how this will feel. Then do it.

    6. “If it is to be it’s up to me” – old Rotary club motto. Not sure if its great life advice, but its so often true!
      In dire circumstances I also go through the poem Invictus in my head

    7. “Just send the damn email” has been on a sticky note on my monitor at work for years.

      But otherwise, when I’m in a situation like this where I am deliberately thinking about how to motivate myself I try really hard to be nice to myself. Unconsciously my first step is to always berate myself into doing whatever the thing is, and it doesn’t work very well.

    8. Not really a motto but the Finnish concept of sisu – sort of a clear-eyed resoluteness.

    9. I say “you can do it! take one bite!” and sometimes that works. and a timer. “you can do anything for 20 minutes!”

      1. Autocorrect fail. My motto is I am a smart person I will figure it out. Will is much more impactful than can when I feel like im facing something impossible.

      1. Yup. And my husband’s favorite: “Inch by inch, anything’s a cinch!”

    19. When I am trying to work out but just want to sit on the couch:
      In 45 minutes, I will be done. If I continue to stall, in 45 minutes, I will either be in the middle of my workout or hating myself for being on the couch.

      Work:
      Don’t do this to yourself.
      Meaning, I’m just making life harder for myself by not doing whatever it is that needs doing.

    20. “Left foot, Right foot, Breathe, Repeat” from Pat Summit (the late Tennessee women’s basketball coach) – basically, keep moving forward.

    21. “One way or another, this will be over by (x date)” and then I look forward to x date.

    24. “Well, this is the situation I find myself in” – if anyone listens to the Deep Dive, you get it.
      It’s a good way for me to mentally move past “ugh why is this like this” and towards dealing with it.

  11. Re-posting from yesterday, hoping to get more responses in the a.m. Thanks to cb for some lovely recs for Edinburgh.

    Hit me with your best recommendations/tips/itineraries for Dublin (4 nights) and Edinburgh (3 nights) in mid-June. 3 adults (one elderly but reasonably mobile) and 2 young kids (2 and 4). We’re staying at the Conrad in Dublin and an airbnb in New Town in Edinburgh. TIA!

    1. You have to tour Kilmainham Gaol in Dublin!

      Also I wish I was better versed in Irish history when I visited. Would recommend reading up on 1916, especially before visiting Kilmainham.

      1. This is definitely something I would want to see if we were traveling without kids, but not sure how to explain the significance to a 4 year old (setting aside the 2 year old who will just think we’re walking around a building) in an age-appropriate manner.

        I am also very interested in Irish history, painful as it is. Really enjoyed the “Rebellion” series that came out in recent years.

        1. How to connect the gaol to kids? I am 98% sure that Paddington 2 was shot there. As in, when Paddington has to go to prison, the prison bits were filmed at that prison.

          I actually went to Kilmainhon gaol on the 100th anniversary of the executions of the April 1916 leaders.

    2. (I didn’t see the prior thread, so no idea if my recs are duplicates!)

      In Edinburgh, make sure you carve out time for the Scottish National Museum. The kids will love it! Also, you can tour the Scottish Parliament building (if Parliament isn’t in session) — kids may be bored, but it’s interesting architecturally and there’s usually an exhibit of some sort on the ground floor. Both the Museum and Parliament are free.

      An underground vault tour is also fun, but 2/4 yo’s are probably too young– it can be a little scary and it’s pretty dank (and dark) down there. But it might be fun for two of the adults to do, with the littles left behind with the 3rd adult.

      1. Yes, the parliament cafe is really nice and it’s kid friendly, there’s a changing room, etc. and you can wave to Mr Cb

  12. I travel to the same city during the uni term time and always book the 8pm flight. Except today apparently, where I booked the 445. I realised at 1pm, cueing a mad mid teams call dash for the bus… it looks like I’ll just make it!

    I’ve gone from a Sunday – Wednesday schedule to a Tuesday-Friday schedule (except this week, randomly) and fully expect chaos will ensue.

  13. I have a question for the organized folks here (bonus points for the ADHD/scattered/overwhelmed ones). How do you keep track of things that need to be done every few years? For everything in the next 6-12 months, it’s in my work calendar or my budget chart. But how are you supposed to remember that in 7 years you need to book and appointment to get a new IUD? Or that every 5 years the septic needs to be flushed. Or that the chicken in the back of the freezer really needs to be eaten? I can put it in my work calendar, but there’s always a chance I won’t be at the same company in 7 years.

    2. So, let’s say it’s Jan 1 2023 and you need a reminder to get IUD on Jan 1, 2028. You could put a reminder on your calendar for Jan 1 2024 to put a reminder on your calendar for Jan 1, 2025 (e.g. “IUD reminder Jan 1, 2028”) and so on and so forth, every year you move it to the following year until it’s time to get the IUD! That way, if you do move jobs, the reminder is still within a calendar year of when you leave. When I leave a job, I always look at everything that’s on my calendar in the coming months so that I can move it to a personal calendar or new work calendar.

      1. This. I just put the reminder on calendar every year and keep moving it forward.

    3. I keep a spreadsheet of long-term house projects and when they need to happen. This year, we are due to replace the carpets, for example. Two years ago, it was painting the exterior. Obviously, there’s a lot of wiggle room here, and if we feel like we can get another year or two out of something nonessential, we will. But it’s helpful to know the average timeline of when something needs to happen.

    4. I put it on my personal calendar. I may not be at the same job, but my gmail account isn’t changing (and my “IUD expiring, book appointment” that I put on there a decade ago just popped up). I have things like “change air filter” or other house maintenance stuff on there. For things in the freezer, I put masking tape and label with the date I put them in there and just look at it periodically.

      1. It’s also helpful to do regular “shop the freezer” weeks, when I know that I want to use that stuff first before purchasing more.

        1. I do a “run down the stores…” week every once in awhile. It’s weirdly become a fun challenge where my husband says “you can’t possibly make dinner of that…”

    6. My freezer is in a basement, so I write on the door with a dry erase marker as I add to or pull meat out. I don’t worry so much about other stuff I keep in there, like the extra bag of flour, but I love the running tab on the door for meat or other big-ticket items.
      For filters, if they are somewhere visible, I put a post-it note on the furnace, which is in a basement closet I enter occasionally, with the date I changed it. It’s the equivalent to me of the little sticker the oil change place puts on your windshield.
      Obviously, I am big on visual reminders.

      1. I would even take a pic of the dry erase board so I didn’t have to go allllllll the way to the basement :)

    7. I have a paper planner and I make a note on the anniversary of the occurrence with how many years are left until the next occurrence. i.e. I have a note in my planner now on the anniversary of getting my IUD put in of “IUD 3 year anniversary – 2 left”. When I fill out my new planner at the beginning of every year, I go through and copy over any reoccurring events from my old one and I just update the numbers.

    8. Would not be surprised if I have ADHD, and was an admin vortex for most of my life. I plan in OneNote for stuff like this. One tab for the current two weeks, one for running to do list sectioned into 1 year. It would be in the running to do list >1 year. It takes a bit of effort to keep this going, but it’s amazing knowing I’m on top of things like this. There’s another archive section for past weeks, which has come in handy a few times. It’s searchable too.

  14. Hi all! I’m the OP from yesterday about gluten grandma. I read all your messages and I appreciate the different viewpoints and suggestions. I talked it over with husband and we decided that we will be a fully GF household. The stress of constantly washing things to avoid cross contamination and resultant illness is just too much and I think that was the basis for a lot of my irritation with MIL. She doesn’t understand (or simply doesn’t care) that a careless knife in the butter dish can cause me to be quite ill, and she never will. She can continue to give husband and kiddo all the gluten when they go to her house. She will be sad because she can’t bring a bakery’s worth of food over anymore but my physical needs come before her emotional wants.

    2. This is probably the best solution for everyone. It’s a clear line in the sand and addresses your concerns.

    3. One of my college roommates had celiac’s. If a spoon used for the normal spaghetti touched the sauce, and she later ate the sauce, she would get sick. Cross contamination is real….

    4. Good for you! Unfortunately, I think it will mean a lot more coming from her son, who was clearly sending mixed messages by happily eating her food in your house until now. This is a very reasonable line to draw. I’m sorry she couldn’t be bothered to ever take your needs into consideration before this. Maybe she can be converted to produce shopping and bringing you fresh fruits and veggies instead?

    5. Why does the gifting MIL never feel compelled to bring exquisite flowers and books?

      1. Because it’s not really about gifting, it’s about exerting control and shaming/being passive agressive towards the daugher in law.

      2. I feel like husband should suggest the flowers! I think they asked for no toys, which MIL may have heard as no books.

    6. Good for you for taking care of your needs and good for you both for talking and taking care of your family in a constructive way.

    7. Fellow celiac here applauding your decision. My husband is gluten free at home in solidarity. It’s simply too hard to have it any other way, and he knows cross contamination mean serious consequences for me.

    12. Good for you! I was the responder who also has Celiac. The only gluten foods we have in our home are crackers for kids and regular sandwich bread (we don’t have a toaster so no cross contamination there and have dedicated gluten peanut butter jar). Makes it so much easier for me!

  15. I need some advice about our planned spring break trip and my resistance to paying the prices I’m seeing for flights right now.

    Trip as planned is super-cool: go into Washington DC, starting March 18, for three nights, then take the Acela to NYC and stay there for three nights. Do all the sightseeing, museums, cool restaurants, etc. So we’ll need one-way tickets to DCA (that’s what’s closest to our hotel – like 10 minutes away) for three people, and then return one-way tickets from NYC to our hometown. I had budgeted about $1500 for air travel for the trip.

    The prices I am seeing online for these two sets of one-way tickets are eye-watering: it’s going to take us $1500 just to get decent ONE WAY tickets to DC (that don’t arrive in the middle of the night) and then another $800 (minimum) to get home from NYC. Neither my husband or son have been to either DC or NYC; I have been both places several times and was really looking forward to showing them the cities, showing my son how to take public transportation, etc. We have the extra $800 to spend on airfare, but mentally I’m balking at it. I realize this is very “back in my day you could get a cup of coffee for a nickel!” attitude, but pre-pandemic I could get a round-trip ticket from my city to DC for $425. I realize inflation is a thing but then I’m reading about how airlines have jacked up prices and are making record profits and I feel cranky. I am about to ditch the trip and change the plan to a destination we can drive to just so we can avoid this madness. But then I think, my son is almost a senior in high school and may not be traveling with us much more, and he’s really excited about the trip and I would hate to deflate the excitement by taking yet another road-trip vacation (we have not flown a lot since the pandemic started).

    I am not sure whether I am just venting or asking for someone to tell me to just get over it. If I have the money, just spend it. I keep thinking “for $2300 in airfare we could just go to freaking Hawaii” which is usually a Big Trip for us. Do I just need to get mentally adjusted to this new reality?

    1. Have you looked for flights as a multi-city trip, with different airports for arrival/departure? One-way is always way more expensive.

    2. This trip sounds fun and important to you. I would either suck it up or just realize it is two separate trips (have you checked what the roundtrip flights are, if you chose one city and stayed there? It might help in your thinking between “this is just the cost of flights now” vs “i could cut the cost in half by staying in just one city”).

    3. Check what round trip tickets would cost to NYC or DC. The non-stops may be the problem.

    4. I was where you are a few months ago, wanting to book flights over New Year’s to New Zealand which have tripled since the last time we went. But we pulled the trigger since we hadn’t seen our relatives there in 4 years.
      Just came back and have zero regrets spending the money as we had an amazing time.

    5. I’m confused – there are one-way tickets from LGA to DCA for under $100 that week, except Sunday when they are like $175. If you fly on a weekday there are lots of inexpensive options now that business travel is back. Are you looking at the upper-tier tickets that include baggage?

      If you need to cut costs getting to/from NY, flying + Acela are not your best options. Take a local Amtrak for $100 less per person. Or take the Megabus for all 3 of you for less than $150.

        1. Oh, my bad, comprehension fail on the flight part. But unless there’s a big reason to take Acela, you can shave $600-700 off your overall costs if you are willing to take the bus. You’re paying in time rather than money. Otherwise, yeah, flights are just really expensive all over.

          1. One way Acela tickets are normally only around $100. Taking the bus would save some money, but not that much

    6. If you have the money, just do it. These are not regular trips for you, and your kid will be old enough to appreciate this kind of trip and….soon making his own plans for spring break that will absolutely definitely NOT include his mom. [I mean, look at two roundtrip tickets if those are cheaper, or multistop tickets, etc, but honestly just pull the trigger if it’s not going to eat into retirement or other necessary funds.]

    8. Oh I think the problem here is that you’re looking for separate one-ways. One-ways are always priced at the highest possible price IF it were a round trip. So it is in your interest to link these flights. You might need to call to book it that way, but many airlines allow you to book multi-city trips directly online.

        1. Lately two one ways are often way more expensive than a round trip. It fluctuates, a few years ago you could offer score two one ways for a reasonable price, but not so much lately. The exception is award tickets which are priced as one way segments so you don’t lose money buying one ways.

    9. Yes get over it. You can’t take a family of 3 to Hawaii for $2300 anyway. And in the future check airfare before you book a trip. Does your son know about it? I can’t imagine telling my kid i have feelings about prices and didn’t bother planning early so oops we aren’t doing it.

      1. Wow, this advice is spectacularly cranky and mean-spirited. Sorry you’re having a bad day, but next time go take a walk instead of taking your feelings out on someone online who’s looking for support. What a terrible look for you today.

    10. I just don’t get fired up about stuff like this. Airfare fluctuates and it’s expensive. Traveling with a family is expensive. Think of it like home repairs, whatever you think it “should” cost add 50% and then decide if it’s worth it to you. For me, the answer is yes, it’s worth it.

      2. Yup. Especially since you say you have the money — getting all worked up about it is just a waste of perfectly good emotional energy.

    11. What city is your hometown? There may be experts here. Anyway, I suggest deleting all airline cookies from your computer (really!) and then using Kayak or G@@gle travel for a multi city trip, flying from DC to NYC. You can always throw away the middle flight of the trip if you want, and take the bus–much much cheaper than the Acela. Kayak will tell you if the prices are going up or down, or what typical prices are. And if you can, try for a Friday to Friday, or Monday to Monday trip. Weekend prices are always higher. and if $1500 for three people was your total budget for flights, that is really low–I think you might be out of touch. but it should not be $1500 per person.

    12. If you are flying from the West Coast, then yeah – this is a thing now. I flew out from Boston to CA to see friends last year and will never tell them, but we blew something like $1,200 in airline miles and another $600 in cash for two round trip tickets in Comfort+ to go see them. I don’t think I will be flying out to see friends again anywhere until I build up more frequent flier miles through work.

    14. Airline tickets are just insane now. Pre-pandemic we would go to Europe in economy for $500-800 regularly. This summer it was close to $2k in economy for most destinations on the continent. I’ve paid less for business class in the past! This is from Chicago ORD so not a podunk airport.

      1. Same, same. This is important. The world is different and inflation is different. We went abroad last year to visit relatives and paid IIRC $5k for our family of 4. This year it’s $7500. It’s so much money, but we want to see our family while all the kids are young.

      2. I know several people going from Chicago to Europe for spring break because prices right now are way lower for that than to US/Mexico locations. Things change so much over time, so unfortunately the options are to pay the higher fare or come up with a new plan (spoken as someone who really needs to book those tix before they get worse!)

        1. Yes Europe is fairly affordable in March because it’s not peak travel season there yet. We changed our summer plans to go to Iceland over Switzerland because we could get tickets to Iceland for $700 per person and Switzerland was $1,700 per person. We wanted to go to Switzerland but not enough to spend an extra $2k on it.

    15. Open your search up to Dulles and BWI. You may be able to get a flight there plus a car service to your hotel for less than the ticket to DCA. DCA is not always more expensive, but it can be.

      I also echo others in terms of structuring it as a multi-city trip. I have also found this to be much less expensive than multiple one-ways.

      Also- have you looked at Southwest? They don’t always come up in the aggregate search engines.

      1. +1

        Follow the suggestions about looking at a multi-leg trip first, but if that still doesn’t work be flexible on your airports. National is wonderfully convenient, but your trip will still be good if you fly into one of the other airports.

      2. +1. DCA can be really expensive. The convenience of being 10 minutes from your hotel may not be worth an extra $500 or so.

    16. Try searching on the website skiplagged.

      It finds hidden fares.

      You can’t check bags though. Must carry on.

    17. 1) you don’t need to take Acela. A regular northeast corridor ticket will be fine.
      2) have you checked all the NYC and DC airports? Have you checked southwest? SW normally doesn’t show up on kayak, etc.
      3) but yes, airline tickets are expensive now. I just paid close to $300 for a roundtrip to NYC from a location a 45 minute flight away that used to be like 175.

    18. That is a very popular time to visit DC, so I’m not shocked that one-way tickets are that high. In addition to DCA, I would look at flights into Dulles. The metro goes there now. It’ll take about an hour on the metro to get to downtown, but it’s worth it to save money

    19. Don’t disappoint your son – you are laying down really important memories at this point. $800 will seem like nothing against the value of those memories.

  16. Shopping help needed! I have a milestone birthday coming up and I had planned for a while to buy myself an Hermes bag as a present (not a Birkin or anything too crazy!) I recently took a new job with a pay cut (for a way better quality of life, totally worth it!) and we’re saving up for a down payment, so I don’t want to spend Hermes money anymore but I still want to get myself a new everyday crossbody bag as a present. Does anyone have suggestions for gorgeous bags in the $1-2.5k range? I generally describe my style as classic/elegant/understated. Thanks!

    1. I would check out a resale site – you can get lots of really good quality Celines or maybe even an Evelyne at that price point (and not to enable, but the cost per wear on my Evelyne is pennies at this point, it is truly a workhorse bag).

    2. Loewe Puzzle, a used Celine Box Bag
      Polene also makes incredible quality bags at a much lower price point

    3. I would look at quality mid-range bag: polene, demellier, strathberry, etc. Or another option is mulberry which to me feels very luxurious and is in the range you’re looking. The iris or the mini zipped bayswater are really nice. For resale, you can definitely get a Chloe marcie in good condition at that price as well.

    4. I have the Gucci Dionysus chain wallet that fits a surprising amount of stuff for going out and is small enough for bag rules at most venues. Love it because the chain is on the longer side.

  17. Hi All, I’m wondering if anyone here has ever implemented a healthy life type program at work. Maybe a fitness challenge or healthy eating type program? I have been feeling this overwhelming sense that it would be a good thing in our organization and I think it would be well received, but I am stuck at how to actually implement it. I have not yet talked with the higher-ups who would obviously need to be on board, but I think they would like it and support it if I had some thoughts on how to actually make it work. Any thoughts would be appreciated! TIA

    1. Good grief leave this to your HR department and they’re not universally well received. Lots of reason why this is a terrible idea.

    2. I’d tread carefully. This could feel very upsetting to some. Perhaps consider getting a team together to do a local charity walk like the MS Walk instead?

    3. What the nonsense is this. No. Don’t bring your diet mentality stufff to you. Shove it.

    4. at one job i had they gave out step trackers and we had ‘teams’ but i also worked at a community health center so it felt appropriate

    5. I would absolutely despise this. I have no interest in my workplace trying to influence what I eat or how I exercise.

    6. I work in HR and I would not suggest this. There’s always drama. Make a walking club or something if you like.

      1. +1 I have seen employee-organized walking groups or “healthy eating” groups that meet at lunchtime be very successful. But those were wholly managed by the employees and the company made it clear, this is an employee-driven activity and we are not sponsoring this. Employer-sponsored “wellness” programs that promote certain diets or exercise rub a lot of people the wrong way (as you can see from some of the responses you got) and also can be considered discriminatory against people with disabilities, depending on how the program is structured and rewards (if any) are distributed.

    7. I think you should ask yourself what your actual goals are here and/or why you think your workplace needs this. If it’s to make people healthier and happier…a wellness challenge won’t accomplish that. And it usually gives permission for people’s bosses/annoying coworkers/workplace to feel like they can have an opinion on their coworkers health, which are two things that should be kept very separate. I would listen to the recent episode on Workplace Wellness from the podcast “Maintenance Phase” that came out dec 20th – it’s a really good overview at the harm that these programs can have.

    9. Listen to the Maintenance Phase episode on workplace wellness programs before you do anything (:

    10. Oh good lord, no. I enjoy a fitness or health goal in my own personal life, but if my company tried to implement this in any way beyond providing passive information or links in our benefits portal, I would be dusting off my resume immediately.

      True story: I had a coworker once whose spouse’s company did something like this, and they built it out bigger and worse every year. To the point that the non-employee spouses were required to participate in order for the employee to receive “discounts” on health insurance premiums. My coworker became pregnant and they ended up getting charged thousands of dollars more in insurance premiums than they otherwise would have, because she didn’t disclose during open enrollment that she was expecting – with a due date 11 months after open enrollment – and thus her weight gain disqualified them for the “discount” program.

    11. Please do not. Diet culture is toxic. My work gives people a health and wellness allowance that can be used on all sorts of things and I like that. Don’t force people to exercise in the name of “fun.”

    12. No, immediately no. Just no. People do not need work to motive them to live healthier. That is an entirely personal decision affected by a myriad of factors, and no one wants their workplace all up in their health and wellness.

    14. Thank you all for the feedback. Scratch that thought off my list! I certainly was not thinking at all about anything being mandatory. I was thinking more along the lines of “let’s all track and see if we can walk 15 minutes a day most days of the week” or something similarly simple. Or, since our office provides snacks often, why can’t we make more of those snacks fruits and/or veggies type of thing. But, I certainly would never want to make anyone feel bad or obligated, so thanks for your replies!

      1. Oh my gosh all I want is healthy snacks at work sponsored events! My team gives me a lot of side eye for skipping them but I don’t want to waste the calories on some mediocre at best cafeteria dessert. If there was a fruit platter I’d be there!!!

        1. +1000 I have no desire to eat a mediocre cookie but I’d love to have some fruit or veggies and humus or something!

    15. OP I would opt out of this and side eye you. “I have been feeling this overwhelming sense that it would be a good thing in our organization” what does that even mean? Are you trying to “save” your coworkers?

      1. Also, if people seem stressed and unhealthy, a work-sponsored wellness program isn’t going to help that. It’s just salt in the wound if everyone is overworked and underresourced.

    16. In addition to what other commenters have said, I’ll just say that this is the type of outside-the-job-description no-value-add things that women waste their time on at work and men don’t.

    17. I once worked at a company with a wellness program. You received points for participation and got a discount on health insurance premiums if you racked up 100 points. The only mandatory item on the list was an annual appointment with a primary care physician, which gave you 50 points. If you had lab work done, 20 points. A flu shot was worth 10 or 20. Then there were at least 4-5 more options for those last few points. I didn’t object, but I also didn’t come anywhere close to having a healthy lifestyle while working for that company. When I left, I lost about 40 lbs and stopped grinding my teeth.

    18. If you’re not already giving reimbursements for fitness center memberships, that is something that is pretty favorably received. Fitness challenges and eating programs and kind of annoying to a lot of people.

    19. Do not do anything with eating. Please don’t.

      I worked at a place that did movement challenges. It was something like ten minutes a day, on average (so 300 minutes a month) and pretty much anything counted – walking, running, yoga, Pilates, biking, swimming, dancing. It was completely optional. If you hit the milestones, you were entered into a raffle for gift cards.

      The biggest benefit was that people walked during lunch, either around the floor during the break (manufacturing facility), or outside, then ate lunch at our desks while working. Now that’s not everyone’s cup of tea, so forcing it is bad, but I many of us liked the implicit excuse to be away from our desks and chat about life.

    21. Unless you’re actually in the health and wellness field, stay far, far away from this. It is a massive overreach. My workplace used to do these (led by actual, certified health professionals) and gradually phased them out. I don’t think anybody is lamenting what used to be. Things that have actually helped and are well received: discounts at a local rec center and discounts on a meal prep class offered through the same center. All participation decisions are employee driven and nobody is tracking it, which is what everyone is objecting to because that information can be used in some really crappy ways. Nobody is standing over us telling us to join a program and get healthier already. It is part of our overall benefits package.

    22. Don’t do this. We had a weight watchers program that I joined, but then Wendy, who was my fellow employee, decided she was in charge of monitoring everyone’s progress. I don’t need a random admin monitoring what I’m eating for lunch at my desk, WENDY.

      Do not mix this with work. Do not decide everyone you work with needs to be on a diet or fitness regimen. This is 0% your business.

    23. If you have the budget for it, I think (optional!) free sessions with legit registered dieticians (via teams/zoom so it’s convenient) plus a few free personal training sessions (ideally at company gym but otherwise at a local gym?) would be well received. It’s optional so no one is forced to do it, but it’s really valuable for people who are looking for a little help. It’s basically just a job perk, like free lunches and snacks.

    25. I am finding the responses to this odd since literally every place I have worked in the past decade (2 law firms and a private company) have done this type of program. It usually focuses on step counting (and was generally accompanied by a free pedometer for people who did not have one). Or a challenge to drink a certain amount of water and we got free branded water bottles. There was often some type of small prize for the winner and at one place people could form/join teams. A lot of people chose not to participate but there was no push back.

      Honestly it was a lot like the football pool or March Madness – more of a team building exercise than anything that some people joined in. It was not as popular as the Pet Photo Contest but it was not some sort of horrible toxic “diet culture” horror that people here seem to think.

      1. I think you’re finding out here that many of your coworkers hated it, even if you did not.

        I work for the company. I don’t owe the company my whole being and my health. That’s private to me.

      2. I am a runner, and a good runner. I hate employee step challenges.

        I don’t do a consistent number of steps and that’s intentional. Some days, I have 4,000 steps and that’s okay. Those are cross training days (weights, yoga, swimming) or rest days. All the step challenges penalise me for this – “you didn’t hit your minimum step goal every day!” Well of course I stretched on Monday – I ran 18 miles over the weekend!

      3. I have a fun step-counting challenge going on with my husband and a couple of friends.

        I swear to God, if my employer made it a thing I would throw my Fitbit in the trash.

    26. The only work provided health thing that doesn’t make me apoplectic is free yoga on site once a week.

      I feel very uncomfortable with the “meet these health metrics and get $” or “work provides Fitbit that tracks you everywhere you go.”

      1. To be super clear – the pedometer was just that (and most people did not use it because they had other ways to track their steps). The one the company gave us could have been manufactured in the 80s. It did not track anyone or report steps – the entire program was self-reporting.

        There was no pressure to participate. I think we got around 60% – more among the staff than the attorneys. And lots of people wanted to participate, had fun setting up teams to go for walks at lunch, and rated it very highly as a workplace activity. (In fact the person who ran it got multiple emails suggesting it be repeated the following year.) And the “prize” for winning was nominal + bragging rights for individuals and lunch at a local restaurant (with extra time) for the winning team.

        I realize that the consensus on this Board is that this is awful but please trust that I know my workplace. When we did hydration the following year, multiple people actually complained that the walking was better.

    27. We had a lunchtime walking group before we went WFH. Anything else is obnoxious and risky.

    28. Agree with everyone else here to not get involved. It is no business of the employer to kindergarten and step into employees’ private lives.
      I worked in a pharma company and we had different initiatives (EU country):
      *extra healthcare services at a private healthcare center (list of exams and treatments from company pre-agreed menu; paid by employer)
      *flu shots days (healthcare workers came to our office to administer shots a few times in Sep/Oct), we also did blood donation days
      *cafeteria-style benefits which included loads of health/sports/wellness options
      *3 extra 100% paid sick days
      *1x weekly healthy breakfast served in office kitchen/cafe
      *daily delivery of fresh fruits and veg to the office, available at multiple spots in the office
      *1x year, you could participate in Steps challenge (fully optional)
      *entry tickets to local sports events (like Color Runs)
      Some coworkers were meeting up for sports after work (funny, because we had many triathletes or marathon-runners in the office) and many were bringing their own “healthy” lunch boxes to eat together during lunch break (either in our cafe or in a park).
      But again – it’s 2023: everyone who wants to do anything for their health & wellbeing knows where to look and don’t require any hand-holding by corpo.

    29. No. Nope. Do not do this.
      There is no other possible reply. Just, don’t,

      You can work with a work funded cafeteria to offer healthy food at lower cost.
      You can make your work place sponsor (and not monitor) gyms or paid (not monitored) work out time.
      You can gift your workers things like a fitbit – and not monitor, register or ask for any information about use.

      Anything you suggest have to be things that cannot be measured. You need a black hole of nothingness to back you items. Which makes them un-sexy and un-appealing to HR kind of people.

      This is not a way forward for either you or your colleagues.

  18. Fun wedding planning question. Are wedding veils still a thing? I’m not seeing a lot of them, but it may be my friend group. Did you wear one? The concept of unveiling a virginal bride seems a bit outdated to me.

    1. I wore a double veil – the blusher was collarbone length and the longer veil was just past my elbows. A friend made it for me (apparently veils are super easy if you already sew?) and embroidered our wedding date/initials and attached it to the comb with blue thread for my ‘something blue’. I had the blusher over my face for our procession and my mom folded it back for me at the altar. I loved it – how many times in life do you get to wear a veil? And it looked super pretty/romantic in the photos.
      The store I bought my dress at had LOADS of veils to try on – try a bunch on and see what speaks to you! If you do wear one make sure to bring it to your hair trial – it took a bit of trial and error to figure out where to attach the comb in my updo.

      1. +1 (I got married in 2004). It was chapel length and made REALLY pretty pictures in the breeze outside!

    3. I wore one, including a face veil, for my first wedding in 2006, but not for my second last year.

    4. I didn’t wear one for my wedding last year (wore my hair mostly down with a sparkly headpiece instead), but my BFF who got married a few months later wore a beautiful lace veil that coordinated with her dress and was fitting for her church ceremony and formal reception (but there was no “unveiling” or anything like that, she just wore it in her hair). My SIL getting married this year is also most likely wearing a veil for a much less formal/secular wedding. Veils are definitely still a “thing” if you like them!

    5. I didn’t wear a veil because my hair is short and it didn’t really go with my dress, but I think that they are still a thing. Usually not over the front of the face though. Depending on your dress, they can be a really nice addition.

    6. I wore a long one that was attached to my hair and went down my back all the way to the hem of the dress. I didn’t have my face covered. I got married in 2012. We’re culturally Jewish but not religious and got married by a Reform rabbi, and I feel like veils that cover the face are unusual at Reform weddings. But I could be wrong.

    7. Hey there! Just got married a few months ago and had to figure out the veil thing myself. I went into the dress shopping process without knowing whether or not I’d want a veil. When I picked out a dress, tried on veils and found I really liked a particular kind with my style of dress. I agree about the “unveiling”, so I did a single-layer veil with no blusher. It’s really up to you! I have friends who have and have not worn them. I felt like once I had the dress picked out I knew what felt “right”. But yes, they are very much still a thing, but now there are a lot of really cool modern designs to choose from, with pearls, 3D embellishments, etc. Got mine on etsy for $100. If I hadn’t done a veil, would’ve done a cool headpiece like this:
      https://www.etsy.com/listing/199443516/white-leaves-headpiece-wedding-headpiece?epik=dj0yJnU9M3BKUzZyVjJBN3ZfNDlyNkJ3QXR3bXF2anlTSFg3bWImcD0wJm49djdJcmc3Z0ZUNExQUjhpRkFrWDBfZyZ0PUFBQUFBR1BKZUt3

    8. Yes, they are still a thing (the kind that only goes in the back, not over the actual face). I actually think the majority of my friends married in the last few years have worn one.

      I did not wear one because the history of the veil made it an ick for me, personally. Yet, I did wear a white dress and had a parent walk me down the aisle, so I definitely wasn’t consistent in my principles! I just couldn’t bring myself to pay extra for a veil given the connotations I had with it.

    9. Most women wear veils in the back these days, not covering their faces. I wore one when I got married, shortly before COVID.

    10. I wore one (short, unobtrusive) and really wish I hadn’t. It is so not my style or personality.

    11. Did not wear one. Occasionally I’ll see a picture of a bride wearing a really romantic, pretty veil and wonder what I would have looked like with one on (I didn’t try any on when I was dress shopping) but otherwise no regrets. I don’t like the meaning behind it at all. I did wear a white dress (with hints of blush) and both of my parents walked me down the aisle. My mom gave the main speech at the reception (my MIL also gave one, dads did not) and I danced with my dad. I also did not change my name and my kids have hyphenated last names, FWIW. I try to be consistent in living my values but no one is perfect.

      This is so minor in the scheme of things but when I think of my daughters getting married one day (if they want to!), I hope so much that they include me as much as they include their dad. Thinking about not getting to walk them down the aisle or give a big speech or dance with them, while my husband does all of that, makes me sad. I carried them for 9 months and they are essentially my heart walking around outside my body every second of the day. But, not a hill to die on.

      1. At Jewish weddings both parents walk the bride down the aisle, and both sets of parents stand under the chuppah. Sometimes the groom’s parents walk him down the aisle too, we did that but I think it may be less traditional.

    12. You do you? If you want to wear one now is the time! If you don’t want to wear one, you don’t have to.

      My POV may not be the most current since I got married a little while ago and I’m Jewish and there is a whole veiling tradition/ritual that I doubt will ever go away. (Not about unveiling a virginal bride, but rather about making sure the bride at the wedding is the correct one and there have been no last minute substitutions. Still sexist and heteronormative though!)

      Tradition or not, I wanted and wore a veil and I loved it – I felt so elegant. I had very long simple underdress with a lace overlay (basically 2 dresses) and the veil matched the lace overlay.

    13. I did not wear one and cannot imagine doing it. Such an odd tradition. In thinking of the most recent weddings I’ve been to, I think maybe 1 bride wore one.

    14. Every married friend I know (wedding in their mid to late twenties) wore the back piece. It sounds silly but something about the veil makes the dress have more impact. If you want to ditch a tradition make it the bouquet toss, your girlfriends will thank you!

    15. I wore one in 2011. I bought it on Amazon for $25 or $30. Don’t think I covered my face. One wedding I went to that year, the bride’s gown did not have a train, but her veil trailed. I thought that was way better than bustling the gown for the party. But her veil was definitely more than $30.

    16. I went to 4 weddings last year, 3 of the brides had veils but none of them had them covering their faces.

      I think veils are beautiful and only feel weird if they’re covering the face.

    17. i wore a cathedral length veil and LOVE them, actually wish mine had been longer. only wore it for the ceremony. i had it cover my face to walk down the aisle, and then my husband flipped it over when i got there. i am jewish and it is traditionally part of the ceremony. but if you dont like them, dont wear one

  19. Any recommendations for a portable document scanner? I need something to corral all the paper now that I’m in a job requiring frequent site visits and meetings.

    1. How much scanning are you talking? I’m a fan of the phone app types that take a picture with your camera. I currently use OneNote for this and it is great, but we aren’t talking dozens and dozens of pages at a time.

    2. If you’re really going to use it, Fujitsu ScanSnap. It’s the bomb. Pricy but amazing–turns pages right side up, easy integration, scans big stacks, lasts for years.

  20. Ugh this is a gorgeous dress, and it honest to God feels like a historical costume to me right now.

    1. Totally agree… I have so many lovely jewel toned MMLF etc dresses in my closet, and honestly I don’t know if they’ll ever see the light of day again!

  21. I have a nice North Face jacket that I really should offload because it’s never quite fit me correctly. Where would you recommend trying to sell it? I think it’s older than what ThreadUp will accept. Have never used Poshmark. It’s navy blue, so not a trendy color by any means. I don’t need to make a ton of money from it, but I don’t want to just give it away, either. Sunk cost fallacy and all that, but I definitely had my sale goggles on and ignored that it doesn’t have quite enough ease in the hip area.

    1. Would it be possible to have a skilled tailor sew discreet elastic panels on either side (on the seam basically) to give some more stretch in the hips? Maybe crazy but I doubt you will get much money for it, and if you really like the style, it might be worth a try.

    2. I feel like your local Facebook marketplace might be a good, easy place to start.

      1. Yep. Just sold loads of stuff via FB marketplace before my imminent international move.

    3. If you can afford it, on Nextdoor/Facebook groups and see if there is a post for a woman/mom/refugee in need of a coat. Then get it to them directly. You won’t earn money from it, but it will make you feel really good and it won’t be just tossing it in a donation bin without knowing where it ever went.

  22. Unsolicited advice of the day:

    Yes, Darjeeling is delicious, but that doesn’t mean you need four cups of it.

    Signed, up till 2:30 AM

    1. I start with black tea, switch to green after lunch, and rooibos from 4. It’s still a lot of tea, but the schedule means I can sleep.

      2. Coffee at breakfast, one mug of black tea in the morning, one or two mugs of green tea during the afternoon, herbal tea after dinner/before bed. Otherwise, yep, awake far to late into the night.

      3. I drink a ton of black tea and drink it all day, but I drink decaf so it has very minimal caffeine.

    2. I’m firmly in the no caffeine after noon camp. If I want tea, it’s rooibos or peppermint, or I pay the price at night.

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