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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. This week's TPS reports come to us from Lisa of Privilege, who has guest posted with us before. Thanks for sharing your picks with us this week, Lisa!
Some days you need a fuffy. AKA a lovey, a security blanket, or, more commonly, a scarf. I often found myself spending all day long in jeans, a tee, and a big, long, wide, colorful cashmere muffler. It works as a blanket, as something to fiddle with in meetings, and armor — when you need it. And this line, We Are Owls, on The Outnet, looks to have brilliant patterns for working with brilliant people. They call the print Brain but it looks an awful lot like circuitry to me, albeit in a beautiful pale blue/red color mix. Their other prints are just as beautiful. This scarf is $95, marked down from $190, at The Outnet. We Are Owls Cashmere and Silk-Blend Scarf
Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail [email protected].
(L-2)
Lisa
Note: If you’re in biotech, or advise biotech clients, the scarf comes in a cellular structure print too. This is my favorite of the whole week.
Math Chick
OMG — I don’t know which one I love more. Philosophically, these are both so me. Thank you for the great post!
hoola hoopa
These are fantastic. Science related, but not a novelty print or fiber.
science nerd
I am totally getting one of these for conferences. thanks!
Diana Barry
I love this. LOVE. May have to get it for my husband to give to me, since he is into circuits and whatnot.
I tried Blinc yesterday (it was in my Sephora sampler from last year, I am going thru them one at a time) and didn’t like it at all – it didn’t seem to make lashes much fuller at all and also irritated my eyes. Oh well, back to sad panda! ;)
Diana Barry
Argh, moderation.
I love this. LOVE. May have to get it for my husband to give to me, since he is into circuits and whatnot.
I tried Blinc yesterday (it was in my S*ph*ra sampler from last year, I am going thru them one at a time) and didn’t like it at all – it didn’t seem to make lashes much fuller at all and also irritated my eyes. Oh well, back to sad panda! ;)
Lily-Student
If you’re in the UK at any point, I highly recommend the 17 and No7 (both Boots own-brand) mascaras – primarily because they all come in brown as well as black, but they’re good in their own right too.
From 17, the best one is ‘Doll’d Up’, and I’m currently liking No7’s one in a red glittery tube (but no idea what it’s called, sorry)
S in Chicago
Love it. I wish it were just a bit thicker. I have a pet peeve about prints showing through. I either want full print or without on the reverse side for scarves–otherwise I spend forever trying to tie it so you see only the top side. (And yes, I know I’m the only one who notices.)
Barb
+1. I have a great black and white rose print scarf I love, but I spend all the time fiddling with it to have the right side showing as the back side shows the print.
Anonymous
The perfect accesory for a woman in a start-up!!!
Ellen
I love this scarf, Kat (and Kate)! I also am a BIG fan of cashemere and silk! Morover, the computer design reminds me alot of some bald internet dufus I met in the MEATPACKING District last year that gave me a ride in his limo that had bad breathe but I think wanted to date me (but with NO real prospect’s b/c he was makeing alot of money doeing something on the web and therefore thought that he could have his pick of women from the MEATPACKING district who were all over the place lookeing for computer wonk’s like him. He said he was workeing on some app that could be on an IPHONE that could tell what you were doieng! Why would I need that? I know what I am doeing! FOOEY! He thought I was stupid enough to sleep with him but I wasn’t! DOUBLE FOOEY on dufusses with bad breathe that just want to sleep with us!
Traditionalist
TJ — anyone had trouble with Neutrogena makeup remover towelettes making them break out? I normally have dry skin and have really liked how these wipes make my face feel after using them for about a week. But I have definitely noticed more breaking out than usual, without any other changes to my routine. If it’s kind of a get-used-to-it period, I can stick it out… but otherwise, I might have to toss these.
Amelia Bedelia
YES! this happened to me. I was so disappointed because they were perfect for the gym (before swimming). I had to discontinue use altogether.
HSAL
Oily skin here. I only use them occasionally, but I don’t feel like they really get my face clean enough, so I wouldn’t use them regularly. I think they’re a good option for post-exercising or when you’re too tired to wash your face, but for me they just can’t replace the Clarisonic.
L
Yes, but then I transitioned to using them as just a makeup remover and then used my normal cleanser and went back to normal. I think they’re a bit too heavy for solo use.
Orangerie
Are you talking about the ones in the blue packaging? They leave a really oily residue, which might be the cause of your breakout. I’ve never used them consistently for that reason. Check out the wipes from Say Yes to Blueberries.
Erin @ Girl Gone Veggie
I’ve had good results with the Yes To! brands makeup remover wipes. They work great and don’t cause my skin to break out.
Maddie Ross
I had the best luck with the Target brand makeup removing toilettes. I am currently using teh Say Yes to Carrots brand ones for skin clearing with salicylic acid in them and love them. Though I obviously cannot remove eye maekup with them. I just use them to wipe my face before bed.
SAlit-a-gator
I had trouble with those because they would sting my eyes. I love the Burts Bees cucumber make-up removing wipes though!
Traditionalist
Thanks, all! Yes, I was talking about the ones in the blue packaging. I will try using a cleanser afterwards, but if that doesn’t work, maybe I too will Say Yes to Blueberries, or to Carrots, or to some other wipe.
MJ
I have somewhat sensitive and acne-prone skin, and while I LOVE Neutrogena face cleansers, I cannot use certain ones–instant breakout. You’re not alone.
Anonylicious
I have this exact issue. When Neutrogena cleansers are good, they’re really good, but some of them just drive my skin berserk.
Slightly Game of Thrones Obsessed
After Sunday night’s GoT episode, I’m having a really tough time with a “brain”-printed scarf….
TO Lawyer
Omg that episode was so brutal. I feel like I keep having flashbacks to that terrifying scene
Lisa
Aaargh! I hadn’t made the connection – since I put these picks together last week. Engaging in active *Forget Forget Forget* program as we speak:).
Anon
Everything I read about Game of Thrones makes me question the moral character of people who consider it entertaining.
cc
This is a little absurd and I am not a huge game of thrones person. Do you only like stories/movies where only good things happen?
Mpls
You know, the Bible had a lot of murder and betrayal in it too…
Senior Attorney
I find comments like this so entertaining! Seriously! See also, “I don’t understand how anybody can stand to listen to that stupid [fill in style of] music that I’ve never even listened to!”
Em
1997 called and wants its moral panic back.
Attorney
I question the intellect of people who don’t find it entertaining, so we’re even ;)
lhh
My SO and I started GOT 2 weeks ago, we’re starting season 3 tonight. Can’t stop, won’t stop!
Birthday Girl
It’s my birthday. My boyfriend’s on a work trip out of town (but same time zone), and I haven’t heard from him yet (no text, email, call, nothing…). It’s 11am. Should I be annoyed? We’ve been dating for two years, if it matters.
Anonymous
It’s only 11 am… I wouldn’t be even remotely upset yet. I probably wouldn’t have called my boyfriend yet either. If I was him, I would probably wait until after work when I had time to talk.
anon
eh, I disagree. If it were my birthday and I didn’t even get a HBD text or, at the very least, fb wall post, from my bf until after work, I’d be super bummed. That said, being bummed about it will only make your special day worse so try to give him the benefit of the doubt and stay cheerful!
birthday
Same here.
Erin @ Girl Gone Veggie
Me too! But I’m the annoying person that stays up to midnight to call/text (if they’ll be asleep) my loved ones Happy Birthday.
Math Chick
I’d counsel non-annoyance.
BF is on travel. It is a workday and during work time.
My own dear father sincerely wished me happy birthday once on a day other than my birthday (which is near his).
A friend calls his mother on his birthday to thank her and give him some gratitute perspective (I think he was a big baby with a wide head; that poor woman). Maybe you could do this while you wait so that you are in a good frame of mind?
I'm Just Me
I’ve forgotten my children’s’ birthdays before. And they are teens so not even adults living some where else.
Baconpancakes
11pm is the appropriate time to be annoyed, even after dating for two years. I’d give him a bit longer.
Hildegarde
Definitely not.
Birthday Girl
For his birthday, if we are not together, I text at 12:00:01am. I mean, I don’t expect complete reciprocity, but I really like birthdays and he knows that.
Anne Shirley
Then maybe he is planning something more fun than a hurried phone call before work? You can choose to spend your birthday annoyed about this if you want but you really don’t have to.
Hey, hey!
Right?! Totally with you.
Hildegarde
If you really like birthdays, I agree it would be considerate of him to make a big deal of your birthday for you. However, I don’t think “I do X so you should do something close to X” is often a constructive attitude in a relationship, romantic or otherwise. Of course I think it’s good to express your needs to your boyfriend clearly, but I don’t think expecting him to show love in the same way you do is reasonable. Again, if you have already expressed to him clearly that receiving a happy birthday text the morning of your birthday is a big deal to you, and he agreed to do that, then maybe annoyance right now would be appropriate. Although even then, this is such a small thing I would cut him some slack.
Baconpancakes
This. I’m a big “giver” in relationships, and I get annoyed when my BF doesn’t spontaneously give back massages or surprise me with gifts like I do with him. But when I ask, “hey, can you do this for me?” or “can you make a big deal about my birthday?” he’ll say “absolutely, I’d love to! I want my baby to be happy.” In sum: if you want him to make a big deal about your birthday and say Happy Birthday at 12:01 am, you have to tell him. He’s not a mind reader.
mascot
True story: I was out of town looking at wedding venues on my birthday, my husband (then fiance) completely forgot it was my birthday (he had a golf tourney, didn’t look at his calendar, i was out of town, etc.). It didn’t dawn on him that he had forgotten it until he talked to a family member of mine. I was annoyed for about 15 minutes and then it became really funny. It did result in an upgraded gift when I got back in town so that was a bonus.
January
Well, whether you “should” be or not, it sounds like you are. Have you had problems in your relationship lately? Are you a big birthday person? Did he go all out for your birthday last year and you’re upset that that isn’t going to happen this year? Just some food for thought.
January
ps – Happy birthday!
roses
Ok to be annoyed, but I’m betting that if he doesn’t contact you soon, he just got caught up in other work stuff. It’s a forgiveable offense – worth being annoyed about only until he apologizes.
Hey, hey!
There are no words to describe the storm of fury that would be coming from me by 11 am. :)
I always wished I could be the type of person to not be bothered by something like this. Alas. Fury. I think that people are different and, therefore, clearly, have different needs. I also think it’s entirely reasonable to expect special things on a birthday from your partner, of all people. (Me? I’d be mad at my parents or brother all the same, too. Am a bit of a high-maintenance one, and, yes, not everyone’s cup of tea.) :) :)
Happy birthday!
L in DC
A long-married friend once told me that one of the secrets to a happy relationship is to always assume the best of the other person’s motivations. As in, if there is a best case scenario and a worst case scenario for why he did or didn’t do something, try to get in the habit of assuming the best case scenario. It really does help eliminate all my little disgruntled moments where I’m irritated about this or that and tempted to pick a fight. Because your partner loves you and is certainly not actively trying to be thoughtless. And I certainly appreciate the benefit of the doubt when it’s the other way around.
Erin @ Girl Gone Veggie
This is such great advice! Thanks for sharing!
Sydney Bristow
Great advice! Also, going forward there is nothing wrong with telling him that it is really important to you for him to wish you a happy birthday at 12:01 am or first thing in the morning and just to generally make a big deal out of your birthday.
hoola hoopa
This! For all you know, he’s been thinking about you and your birthday all day. But he’s working! A work trip for me involve working. All day. There are no cute texts or calls. Wait until he can get to his hotel room tonight; that’s when I would call. It would probably be ~10 pm.
But ditto Sydney that if this is something that’s important to you, then communicate it to him so that he’ll know going forward.
Anonymous
I’ve never understood this “working all day” thing–a HBD text would take 5 seconds tops to tap out. Do people sleep on the conference room table, wake up and immediately start responding to work e-mails and/or taking calls? I imagine he had 20 minutes at an absolute minimum to shower, shave and get dressed, during which time basic personal correspondence can be sent.
Anonymous
For me, when I travel or have an intense workday, it’s not the time that it takes, its the focus it takes to remember it. I’m in the zone. sa
Shoplifter
He’s working. Put on your Big Girl Pants. It’s not a big deal.
Anon
+1 to Shoplifter. I will never understand people’s obsessions with their own birthdays. Everyone has a birthday. Serial killers have birthdays. You are not that special. Yes, you want your boyfriend to wish you happy birthday, but jeez, give the man the rest of the day.
anon-oh-no
But yes, you are that special. We all are.
Avery
Sorry, that does suck. I would be annoyed, which (as has been pointed out) is different from whether you should be annoyed. Probably worth it to ask yourself if this feeling ties back to something else in the relationship you’re unhappy with. In my last relationship I was quietly freaking out that my SO would forget my birthday. He didn’t, but the feelings were based somewhere else and were indicative of a larger concern.
Happy birthday, and if you are generally happy then cut him some slack! Have a fantastic day.
Burgher
I’d say don’t get upset until whenever work trip activities (which can run from -8am-10pm+) would be done and he has a chance to catch his breath and get back into personal life mode. Work trips, at least for me, are usually a whirlwind with a singular focus of work.
But, hey, this is coming from someone that forgets her own birthday, anniversary, etc… Hopefully, he will send you a quick text at lunch, at least!
Emmabean
I incessantly talk about my birthday for about a week before it happens, so I’d be pretty ticked if by some miracle, my fiance forgot about it. Don’t let it ruin your day though – whenever he realizes it, he’s going to feel pretty bad and will do what he can to make it up to you.
SH
FWIW, when I’m traveling for work, my cell phone and my person are often not attached. My cell phone has to be left in my purse, which I have to keep in a locker; my purse and cell phone are under a table at a trade show; my purse and cell phone are with me but I’m with clients all day and don’t want to bust out my phone to sent text messages in the middle of a meeting (or I’m the one presenting)… So he may be thinking about your birthday but physically not able to do anything about it.
First Year Anon
I think everyone has valid points, but you HAVE to update us on what happened later today!
Birthday Girl
UPDATE! So yeah, I overreacted a bit. He texted at 1pm asking if I had received anything. I hadn’t, so he freaked out and then realized that Fedex had my address wrong. Apparently he had ordered flowers to be sent to my office, but they didn’t come. He was waiting for them to arrive and surprise me before he texted. After a few calls to FedEx, the flowers are now allegedly en route.
L in DC nailed this one… I should’ve assumed he had the best intentions instead of getting upset. I don’t doubt that he loves me, and I very much love him.
Happy ending to my sillyness! (I will blame it on PMS). And thanks to everyone who wished me a happy birthday and/or offered advice. I love this site!
First Year Anon
That’s cute!
Shopping Help Requested
Hi, I was hoping that people could help me find the perfect pair of shoes. I feel in love with these red Reiss shoes with tiny wedges during the Nordstrom sale but they are too pricey for me still.
Ideally I am looking for something with a pointy or almond toe that is either flat or with a low wedge (small heel could be considered). I don’t mind an ankle strap or if it’s d’orsay. Any material leather, patent, suede, etc is ok. I would like to keep the price under $100 and the shoe needs to be formal enough looking to wear to my business formal office on less stuffy days.
Any ideas?
A Nonny Moose
Try Nine West. They have a pair of fun, pointy-toes red patent flats. Although do be careful with colored pointy inexpensive shoes that you don’t stub off the color… Not that I’m speaking from experience.
A Nonny Moose
http://www.ninewest.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-ninewest-Site/default/mProduct-Show?pid=9908190&variantSizeClass=&variantColor=JJE74SY_1&cgid=8346267&prefn1=catalog-id&prefv1=ninewest-catalog
The red are $69.
SAlit-a-gator
Nordstrom has some red BP flats at $49 – they’re pointy toe and super cute and I can personally vouch that they are very comfortable: http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/bp-moveover-pointed-toe-flat/3728368?origin=category-personalizedsort&contextualcategoryid=0&fashionColor=RED+PATENT&resultback=0&cm_sp=personalizedsort-_-browseresults-_-1_2_C
B
Austin Reed review:
I am so sad. I ordered my first few items from Austin Reed. I love their dresses (with sleeves) so much online, and decided I would take the risk of return shipping to the UK since they were having a good sale. I ordered a purple tweed blazer and a charcoal suiting dress. I normally wear a 12 in US sizes, so ordered 16 UK in both. Both of the items were incredibly boxy, and normally I do well with boxy as I have a large chest and broad shoulders. I loved the material of the jacket and really wanted to make it work, but it had zero waist shaping and simply was not flattering at all. The dress was quite large on the bottom and would have required significant alterations in both length and bringing in the skirt. It did not fit well enough on the top to justify the cost of those alterations. Arm hole was a little big, so not flattering. And I wasn’t thrilled with the material – it seemed pretty thing, especially for that price point. Unfortunately, I am now eating the significant cost of overseas shipping to send both items back.
Erin @ Girl Gone Veggie
Oh that’s a bummer to hear that! But hey, at least you tried!
Shoplifter
I had a totally different experience with Austin Reed patterns and fit. For me, their proportions are too short (especially in the torso and sleeves) and narrow (in the shoulders and hips).
B
I’m short-waisted, so that makes sense that you found them short (I can often wear petites). I think it’s the lack of waist shaping and general wideness on the lower half that was my problem, so people that are pears would probably do well.
pickle
I think I have the same suiting dress. It fit my broad shoulders perfectly, so I paid $65 to get the sides taken in; now I have a perfect dress! (Fabric not amazing but ok for the price incl. alterations).
Golden
Advice or personal experience needed:
After dating 4 yrs, my bf and I are getting married. My parents dropped a bomb on my the other day – they told me that they cannot stand my fiance’s family. Apparently, they find them “classless” and they are concerned that this could lead to issues in my marriage down the line when we have children as our family cultures may clash. Some background: my parents are European who moved to the US before I was born. I moved out of state for college which is where I met my fiance. My fiance’s family lives very close by (15 mins away) and are truly American in their culture. Due to the distance, my parent’s and his parents never got to interact until the engagement. I can see my parent’s concern about some issues, but honestly, his family is made of loving and sweet people who have always made me feel welcomed. Things could be worse, right?! Don’t read this the wrong way, my parent’s are not anti-American – they have many close American friends and my brother is also married to an All-American girl who they love. It’s really a case of a clash in lifestyles.
I am confused and struggling to resolve this issue in my mind. I have always felt that I could trust my parent’s judgement and I have relied on their advice in the past. Now it has me questioning my decisions. Am I making a mistake? Am I “blinded” by love and going to be in a for rude awakening down the line? Has anyone experienced something similar? How did your relationship fare?
Thanks for any help/advice/or stories of similar experiences.
roses
There is no rule out there saying that your parents and your fiance’s have to like each other. If they live far apart, the families only need to be able to be civil to each other on the occassions they have to interact. If your fiance’s family is not abhorrent in some way, your parents are the ones who have the problem if they don’t feel they can be civil. If you like your fiance and his family, there’s no issue here – just don’t plan occassions with both sides unless absolutely necessary.
LH
Is it your fiancé they don’t like or just his family? If its the latter, it may depend on your culture, but its possible they’ll never have to interact except at the wedding. My parents and in-laws don’t like each other, but everyone was civil at the wedding and I honestly think that’s the only time they’ll ever have to interact because they live on opposite coasts and neither family wants to share holidays. But one of my best friends is Indian American and its expected in her culture that there will be lots of events with both families so its way more important that her family and in-laws get along. So I guess how big of an issue it is depends on how much you and your fiancé envision hosting the whole family versus visiting each set of parents separately.
As far as the culture clash affecting children, have you and your fiancé talked about how you want your children to be raised and other issues like finances? Do you personally have any concerns about things his parents have done and if so have you agreed not to do that in your marriage? If you’re on the same page about that big picture stuff I wouldn’t worry about your family’s concerns too much. You might benefit from some pre-marital counseling with your officiant or religious leader (I think all engaged couples should do this actually) where you could discuss these concerns.
So anon for this
My parents have similar issues with my husband’s family. Both of my parents had careers and worked outside of the home. My husband’s mom has never been employed a day in her life. Her job was to stay home and take care of the house and provide three hot meals a day. (She would bring lunches to my husband and his father during the school/work day.) My mother-in-law is less than supportive of my decision to work outside of the home and hire a nanny to care for her grandchildren. My mother is very supportive of my choices because she firmly believes that a woman should have a career of her own .
Family functions are awkward, but civil. My parents are retired and travel around the world with their hard-earned retirement savings. My in-laws have never traveled outside of the state we reside in. I am sure my in-laws think my parents are materialistic and I know my parents think my in-laws are lazy.
My husband and I have been married for 10 years and it has not caused any issues in our relationship. We do laugh about our parents’ interactions after family functions though.
hoola hoopa
When I was facing a similar situation, my very wise SIL told me: “EVERY marriage is a multi-cultural marriage.” FWIW, she’s the child of immigrants and married my very American brother. My husband’s family is American, but essentially mine is classically urban and his is classically rural.
If your parents have fault with your fiancé, then I think you should take pause. Don’t change your mind based solely on their opinion, but be thoughtful about their impressions, whether they are true, and how much that will matter to you down the road.
If they like fiancé and only have concerns about his family, it’s fine so long as YOU like his family. They won’t likely interact much, and so long as you and husband can move between both cultures comfortably, so will your children. If you are happy, then it’s on them if they are bitter.
If you aren’t sure you’re comfortable with his family, then do consider how that will affect you and your future children. Consider it well. Many people have happy marriages and simultaneously can’t stand their ILs, but I recommend that you consciously agree to that to yourself.
Maudie Atkinson
Your SIL put that very well. My husband and I are both American and from the same region of the country, but our families are worlds apart.
BB
Two questions:
1) Do you and your fiance have the same lifestyle and values? I am a firm believer that this is the arbiter of future happiness.
2) Do you look at marriage as a joining of 2 people or a joining of 2 families? I personally believe it’s the former, but I know some people totally disagree. If you think it’s a joining of 2 families, then you might have a problem.
Hm
Some specific context would be helpful – why exactly do your parents find them “classless” – if they are racist or homophobic or rednecks, I could see their point.
And what do you mean when you say that your fiance’s parents are “truly American?” – never traveled outside of US or something else?
Some context would help.
Golden
First off, thanks so much to everyone who has responded. It means a lot.
To get more specific with one example, my parents raised me and my siblings without TV. Something I have found is more prevalent in certain European cultures. His family loves TV, and watches it daily, whether it is a show they love to follow, or there is “nothing” to do around the house. In my family, if you have nothing to do, you would read a newspaper or a book or work in the yard…not watch mindless TV. So when our families interacted, his parents talked all about the shows they watched and my parents were left kinda speechless.
I agree with my parent’s belief that the lack of TV in our house help me and my siblings succeed in school and it led us to read a lot and strive to grow intellectually. However, I missed out a lot on pop culture as a child, which was really hard to deal with when I was in school. My fiance believes that TV is not always an evil machine. Yes, excessive TV is bad, but sometimes, it does help after a long and mentally taxing day to unwind by watching a show. I can see his point. He also thinks that keeping a kid away from TV could drive them to seek it out whenever they are not at home. This could go on and one arguing one way or the other. We both want our children to not be TV addicts or resort to turning it on whenever they are searching for something to do.
Sorry for the novel. Just one example of one of our cultural differences. We have also done the pre-marriage counseling required to get married in our church. Fwiw, there weren’t any red flags that popped up in my mind when we did it.
hoola hoopa
This is not a difference worth considering ending an engagement over. Your parents may never be friends, but I really wouldn’t let this shake you.
Anon
I’m North American and my husband is European – this stuff is never straightforward no matter what your background. He didn’t have television until he was ten and we only had two channels until I was ten years old. I still have to remind both sets of grandparents to limit screen time. What works for us is (1) outsourcing the blame to third parties where possible — e.g. – pediatric society recommend max of 2 hrs screen time per day and we’re sticking to that, and (2) listening but ignoring — practice the ‘nod, smile, ignore’.
As other posters have said, the most important thing is that you and your spouse are on the same page about things — I said to my husband long before we got married that I never saw my career as taking a backseat to his and that if he couldn’t get on board with that then we shouldn’t be together. His mom (SAHM) keeps asking if I can switch to part-time. I say no – then nod, smile, ignore.
LH
Agree with hoola hoopa that the further details make it clear this is not something to reconsider the engagement over. I agree now is the time to draw boundaries with your parents and explain that they don’t have to be best friends with your in-laws but they have to be civil at the wedding and at any other occasions at which its important to you and fiance that they’re both there.
Orangerie
I’m guessing bigotry isn’t the trait in question, otherwise OP would have (hopefully) noticed it as well.
Golden
No, it’s not bigotry. It may read that way, in the little context I could give. But, I truly think it’s just a strong belief that certain ways of living are best for a family/children to turn out most successfully. For example, my parents a very social and have many family friends with children my age. Many of these children were provided the best upbringing (private schools where the public schools were not very successful, ivy league educations, the ability to play a variety of sports and to travel the world for culture experiences). However, many of these children, despite all these wonderful opportunities, are working at jobs well below their education or pay grade. Some are “lost” adults, some are simply relying on their parents for support, some are struggling to have meaningful relationships, some are struggling with depression since moving on into the real world etc.
My parents are ecstatic because my siblings and I have successful careers, we all immediately found jobs, we all have long term relationships that are not roller coaster rides emotionally and some of us have been able to purchase our own homes without any support. I think given the current economy and job market , my parents are high-fiving each other for raising children who are capable of taking care of themselves. Going back to the TV example, they are convinced that one of the factors that set us apart from all their friends is that they did not let us grow up watching TV. They think, this help shape my siblings and I to become the independent people we are today.
Orangerie
Honestly, there is a lot of luck involved with how kids turn out. My parents sound similar to yours: while my brother and I were growing up they both worked demanding jobs at well-known companies, put a high emphasis on doing well in school, promoted extra-curricular activities & reading over watching TV, and we did a fair amount of traveling over the summers.
I graduated high school, went to a 4 year university, found a job, moved into my own place and have been self-sufficient ever since. My brother, on the other hand, has not “launched” yet. He took a few community college classes, works part-time and still lives at my parents’ home with no real plans to get a career or an independent life.
Tangent aside, I think you just have to tell your parents that when the time comes, you and future husband will raise your children how you see fit, and they need to respect that.
Em
To be honest, I’d be more worried that your parents are going to be incredibly controlling about how you raise your children. This might be a good time to start setting some boundaries with them.
Senior Attorney
I agree with Orangerie and Em. Honestly, it sounds like your parents need to get over themselves. Yes, their kids have turned out fine… so far. But really? Taking all the credit for that and attributing it to the absence of TV in the house? That seems like a bit of a stretch.
BankrAtty
My parents and in-laws are very different. My parents are fit, tidy, quiet planners who live in a world of “shoulds.” My in-laws are overweight (with accompanying weight related health issues), messy, loud, and spontaneous. They live in the same city–DH and I, mercifully, moved away–and have been attempting to be friends for several years. It isn’t working. But it affects me and DH very little. Occasionally, one of our mothers will attempt to get us involved in their squabbles or insecurities about the relationship. We choose not to engage them. From 2,000 miles away, we can even laugh about it.
anon
So health issues that you’re associating with obesity are leading to discord. Really?!?
Anon
Not surprising. People are often judgmental about other people’s weight.
BankrAtty
My parents are very judgmental about my in-laws’weight and associated health issues, yes. It’s a major source of tension in their relationship because my in-laws feel very judged (because my parents *are* judging them), and my parents feel like my in-laws are making destructive life choices (because my in-laws continue to be overweight, despite heart issues, mobility issues, and the looming threat of diabetes).
Em
Why on Earth do your parents care about your in-laws health issues?
Anon2
I don’t see why this wouldn’t be expected. People who value their health and take steps towards taking care of their health by maintaining an active lifestyle and eating healthfully would of course be inclined to view people who abuse their health as setting a poor example for grandchildren re: active lifestyle.
BankrAtty
Honestly Anon2, I’m concerned my father in law won’t even be around to meet future grandchildren. We have no children at the moment, and aren’t even considering them for 5 or so years. Between his heart issues, diabetes (he can control it with food and weight), and joint issues (he’s facing a knee replacement), there’s not an insignificant possibility that his health could get very, very bad quickly. It can be hard not to resent his choices, given how much they terrify my DH, but when I get the urge to judge, I remember it’s his life and the changes I wish he would make are HARD.
Killer Kitten Heels
For me this would really depend on what your parents mean by “classless.” If it’s just superficial lifestyle differences (say, MIL shops at the Mart of Wal while Mom would rather be naked than wear polyester, or FIL watches NASCAR while Dad prefers cricket, or something), I probably wouldn’t put much stock in it, because hey, parents have only met the in-laws once and don’t have the depth of experience you have with them, and may have their own cultural prejudices/etc. that are ingrained but don’t really tell you anything about in-laws as people.
If, however, parents are identifying more significant issues (a la the “working mom” vs. SAHM thing others have pointed out, or some other similarly major difference in lifestyles), do be aware that these things can create issues, particularly if they’re not discussed preemptively.
Personal anecdote time: My MIL hates – HATES – that my career is more high-powered than my H’s. I met her when I was still in school, and my first job post-law-school was not obviously “career-woman-y,” so I didn’t notice until after we were married, but now that I’m in work-80-hours-a-week world, it’s become a huge problem, and I’m consistently plagued with insinuations that I’m the reason she has no grandkids, that I’m the reason my SIL is moving away for her career (because I encouraged her to pursue an opportunity she was really excited about, what a terrible person I am), that I’m going to “force” my H to move away one day “against his will,” the list goes on and on, whenever I am around her. It is PAINFUL, made more so by the fact that my H is uncomfortable standing up to her because “she means well, she just worries about us.” I wish I’d paid more attention earlier on to some of the things she said and did that indicated “different lifestyles” – I don’t know that I would’ve made a different decision about my marriage, but it’s something we should’ve talked about a lot more before we got to this point (my H and me, I mean).
BB
Ugh. That is so awful about your MIL! Honestly, I’d be concerned if my H didn’t stand up for me in these situations (or at least pull his mother aside and say: Quit it with the talk or else neither of us are going to come visit again). My spouse is the most important person in my life, and it feels awful/enrages me when people treat him badly. I understand standing up to parents is difficult, but once you got married, you become #1 in his life.
Killer Kitten Heels
She’s soooo sneaky about it, and she does it in a way that comes off as “I’m just an old lady who worries! about my kids! because I’m a GOOD MOTHER!,” so it’s hard for H to really grasp as it unfolds.
Example comments: “It’s such a shame your job is so hard on you, I just don’t know how you’ll ever have time for a family with those hours, you poor thing;” or “Oh, you don’t eat dinner together during the week? It’s just so sad that work has to interfere with your home life” (insert sad teary-eyed face here); or “I don’t know where SIL got the idea to move to New Place for Awesome Job – I can’t imagine anyone encouraging people to move away from their family” (while pointedly staring me down, since she knows I’m Team SIL on the moving thing); or “I only sent my kids to daycare because their father abandoned me, I can’t imagine a mother choosing daycare if she doesn’t have to” (during a discussion about me working when we eventually have babies).
It’s all just her “worrying,” or “expressing her opinion,” never mind that her “worries” and “opinions” are actually clusters of tiny knives crafted and flung with great precision. H doesn’t see the “tiny knives” part of it, at all, so he doesn’t really get that he’s failing to protect me, because he doesn’t see anything to protect me from. I know, I know – we’re working on it.
My Stepkids' Mom
Maternal propaganda will, in fact, render a mother’s child incapable of recognizing what she is actually saying/doing. Trust me. I have seen it happen in front of my face. I do not know how you get your husband to see this, but I suspect a third party (good therapist) will be involved. If it comes from you, it sounds biased and you can never win. Good luck. She sounds insidious.
BB
I reiterate (and emphasize my) “Ugh!” That really is awful, and it’s a tactic I’ve seen / heard of many mothers doing (including my own and my MIL). Really random thought: Has your H ever seen the Sopranos? Livia Soprano (Tony’s mother) on that show is the epitome of a manipulative mother (and totally realistic). When my own H saw it many years ago, he said that it was a relief to him to see that other people had mothers who were that bad!
Orangerie
Yikes, that sounds awful. I hope you and your husband can find a way to deal with her.
rosie
You’re parents and his parents just have to smile and act nice on the few occasions where they are together (and it sounds like not very many, since they’re not geographically close). It’s fine if they have nothing in common aside from wanting their children to be happy.
Based on what you’ve said (premarital counseling w/no issues, being able to discuss things like TV time for kids rationally without either of you refusing to budge from your own upbringing), I think now is the time to draw some boundaries with your parents, not doubt your relationship. Acknowledge that yes, your future ILs are very different people, but they are kind & generous people who want the best for you and their son, and you love their son very much. I would also ask your parents to be willing to put aside differences for the 2 hours every other year (or whatever it turns out to be) that they happen to see these “classless” people and refrain from complaining to you about them, which is frankly pretty snobby.
rosie
ugh, your
Anne Shirley
Pretty sure telling your daughter you think her fiancées family is classless is the least “classy” thing possible. They’re being rude. Sharing their dislike of his family with you is unnecessary and rude. A big part of growing up means realizing your parents aren’t always right. I’d start by (internally) challenging their prideful assumption that you aren’t a drug addict unemployed and living at home because they said no to TV. Turns out there are plenty of unemployed young adults living at home in Europe too.
DCR
and plenty of people who watchd tv as chidren who are not a drug addict, unemployed, or living at home
Anne Shirley
Yes absolutely!
Anon99
Yeah, I think the real problem here is that your family are closed-minded jerks.
International House of Partners
I have been married twice (I’m old), both times to men who moved here as kids/young adults. My family is American because my great-grandparents fled Cossacks at the turn of the century. My point is that I have had cultural differences with both sets of in-laws. Cultural differences come with the territory. So the real issue is to distinguish the cultural differences that are problematic (because they affect the way you want to run your life) and the cultural differences that are not problematic (because what do you care if his family has X or Y family tradition if it doesn’t involve or bother you).
I can read your parents’ comments one of two ways: productive or pretextual.
Productive: it might be worthwhile doing some additional non-religious pre-marital couples counseling. It should help clarify your thoughts as a couple on some important issues. I wish I had been mature enough to do that with my first husband. I did it with DH, and it was incredibly valuable because we realized how similar our values are, even though we come from different cultures.
Pretextual: there is something they don’t like about his family, but they are not going to tell you what it is and are instead going to hide behind “cultural differences.” To which I say: if it doesn’t bother you, then that is all that matters.
I will say that my husband’s parents lived abroad (I met them a few times when we visited before they passed away). That makes any cultural differences with them virtually irrelevant and brings me back to “it only matters if it affects you and your fiancé.” So I agree with Rosie that if you’ve legitimately determined there is nothing that concerns you, your parents sort of have to just deal.
Golden
Thank you so much (and to the others above, all comments have been insightful and reassuring). I think you brought up a good point regarding the productive vs pretextual. I think the first place for me to start is by writing down what I want for my lifestyle, my children and how the are raised, and the “culture” I would like them to know at home. This will help initiate a discussion with my fiance regarding these important issues and where we truly stand so that we can set up some clear expectations as we head into marriage. Again, I appreciate all the responses. Please, if you have more to add, keep it coming!
Wildkitten
I like your handle.
Need to Improve
I totally get it. My parents are European, and although they are not rich, they place a very high premium on “class,” or manners. My husband’s family does not give a rat’s a$$ about manners, and my parents have definitely made comments to me about it. Also, my husband’s family are definitely very American, and my parents definitely look down on many aspects of that American-ness.
At the end of the day, this is not something that you are going to have to deal with a lot, because it sounds like you have distance between the families. If the issue does not bother YOU, the don’t worry about it. Ask yourself, is this really going to create problems in MY marriage? or is this just a problem my parents have that I do not share and won’t have to deal with? You’ll run into it every few years at weddings and other events where they have to interact, but if it does not affect you personally, I say don’t worry about it!
Need to Improve
And now that I have read the comments and your responses above, I would add that our situations sound very very similar. We, too, had no television. We had no packaged food. My parents are used to going to 5 different local stores to get their food. Neither has ever been to a Wal-mart. They do not own cars. All that kind of stuff is, in my view, cultural but minor. Yes, they don’t have a lot to talk to my in-laws about, but I view that as their problem, not mine. It’s not like they have major clashes over religion or things that actually matter. Who cares if my in-laws like TV?
My husband and I share views and values and are raising our kids in accordance with those. THAT is important. For example, we have to TV. I don’t mind a little TV, but if he suddenly wanted to spend hours a day on weekends sitting around watching television and not playing with the kids, it definitely would bug me. I think that’s the sort of stuff you need to think about–how is YOUR marriage going to be impacted?
CKB
How often are your parents & inlaws really going to be in the same room together? I’ve been married almost 20 years, and my inlaws & parents get along just fine, but they only see each other maybe once every 2 or 3 years, if that. My parents have always lived much farther away (as much as 10 hours away) and now we live in the middle – each set of parents is about a 2 hour drive in the opposite direction. Also, my inlaws are not the same religion as dh & I and my family, so they don’t have a desire to get together with us for religious milestones in our children’s lives – so we celebrate birthdays, etc separately with each family. Honestly, it’s not that they don’t get along, but culturally they are fairly different, and geographically not close, so it just doesn’t work out that they see each other often.
I totally wouldn’t stress about your parents not liking his parents. Now, if your parent’s don’t like your fiance, then that can be a whole other issue, but not one that is insurmountable.
Golden
Fortunately, my parents really like my fiance. Which is why I was so surprised about not liking his family. I think their concern is that his family’s cultures/lifestyle are inherently ingrained in him and that they will eventually emerge and cause conflict as we age and grow a family. My fiance is very close to his family and since they live so close by, my parents think their “bad habits” could rub off.
But it’s nice to hear other people’s inlaws are not fond of each other and it doesn’t cause a problem.
Lorelai Gilmore
I would seriously consider whether your parents’ advice is worth anything here. Are your in-laws kind? Are they ethical? Do they have a healthy sense of humility? Do they have a sense of humor? Do they treat each other – and you – with dignity and respect? At the end of the day, that’s what matters. And based on what you’ve described, it doesn’t sound to me like your own parents are passing muster on that set of criteria.
Be very, very careful about what you say to your fiance about this. These kinds of critiques are very hard to “un-hear,” and you don’t want to contaminate your fiance’s opinion of your parents unless you have to.
Golden
Ahh! Hit report! Sorry about that!
Agree, I have not and will not say anything about this to my fiance. I feel that this would be very hard to get past and would make the relationship awkward and resentful. It is something I need to work out with myself and my parents.