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Something on your mind? Chat about it here. I haven’t worn this kind of shoe (thick sole, tall heel) in a long while, but I feel like I’m seeing more and more of them, and might give a pair a try. For what’s left of summer, I like these “light natural” wedges from Nine West — as part of Piperlime’s huge sale going on, they have them marked from $99 to $34.97. (If you like them, do note that both 6pm.com and Endless have them in an additional six colors for $39.97-$59.99.) Nine West Bardough High Wedge Espadrilles (L-5)Workwear sales of note for 4.18.24
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16 Handles
A question for the lawyers on this site — that could possibly help me with a current dilemma. If you’d had the choice between a practice group at a midsize law firm in your area of interest v. an offer at a big law firm straight out of law school, what would you have done? (Let’s assume that the midsize hires very rarely, usually only laterally, and usually only people with significant transactional experience, but is making an exception. Pays below market, but still in 6 figures). Concerns include “missing out” on biglaw training/having it on the resume (though I’m not sure how much “training” there really is beyond throwing you into doc review), but also the flipside concern that I may want to apply for the midsize kind of job two years down the road and then not be able to find any positions. (I know people in this exact position who are actually trying to get jobs at this particular firm from biglaw). It seems like I have the option to “skip” two years of misery, especially since the smaller firm is a genuinely great place to be and many people opt to stay there. I have excellent relationships with the partners and other associates there, and know I would be given responsibility up front (especially since I’d be one of few junior associates in that group). But I’m not sure if I’m being naive about this.
FYI — the offer at the bigger firm will likely be in the litigation group, and the practice group at the smaller firm is a transactional one limited to a specific industry. I hated corporate work at the big firm (M&A/capital markets) which is why I ended up doing mostly litigation, but I don’t mind it at the smaller firm because it’s localized to an industry I care about, and I like working on contracts/releases/deals in that context. I’m interested in potentially going in-house one day, and the transition actually seems easier out of the smaller firm/from a transactional background. I always saw myself as a litigator but am becoming increasingly disillusioned that I probably wouldn’t get to the oral advocacy stuff – the stuff that really draws me to it – until several years down the road, when I might be looking to leave a big firm anyway, and I might be better off channelling those skills into negotiating, talking to clients, etc. at a smaller place. (I don’t really enjoy law school, so while I am good at case research and legal writing, would not be devastated if that wasn’t part of my job). That’s if my summer experience was anything to go by – I did well and got good reviews because I worked hard, but spent much of the summer wondering if I could really sustain that lifestyle for more than a year or two, if that. People at the other firm work hard and are serious about their jobs, but certainly don’t seem to be pulling all nighters routinely or sleeping at the office, or even working regular weekends — that seemed to be the exception rather than the rule.
All this being said, I’m somewhat ashamed to admit that I have some sort of mental stigma (probably born of the competitive law school atmosphere) about not taking the “best” option I have, but I’m trying to really think about what’s best strategy-wise for my career and my personality (I get very miserable when I don’t have time to pursue serious hobbies and outside interests, stay healthy and fit, and spend time with friends — sounds cliche but true).
Any thoughts?
Seattleite
(I am not a lawyer.) From reading your post, it sounds like you really want to take the mid-law job, but feel like you *should* want the biglaw job. If I’m wrong, feel free to ignore the rest of this post.
Assuming either job will allow you to pay your bills, take the job you want now, not the job you think Year 2022 16 Handles will wish you had taken. You don’t know who 2022 16 Handles is or what she will want. She will likely be very different that you believe. You do, however, know Year 2012 16 Handles very well. Put her first. Pick what she wants. Then trust that Years 2013 and Beyond 16 Handles will create something awesome from it.
Em
Good lord, take the mid-size firm. BigLaw as nothing but a “prestige” move makes mental sense in law school when you’re used to reaching for the next step, and that next step is usually delineated by prestige. It makes very, very little sense in the outside world when all of a sudden you realize you’re out of steps and you need to look for what makes you happy. It’s clear from what you’ve written that the smaller firm will make you happier, at least as a first step. Will some of your fellow law students sneer at you? Maybe. If the firm is as you’ve described, however, nobody else will. You’ll be fine.
As for training, it sounds like you’ve spent some time at this firm and know what kind of work you’ll be doing and who you’ll be working with. You have a good sense from that whether they’ll train you and it sounds like you will; trust your instincts.
An
I agree
Senior Attorney
Take the job you want!
And you can absolutely deal with the whole law school competition thing if it comes up: “Oh, of course I had an offer from BigLaw, but I was offered the long-term job I want now so I figured I’d spare myself a few years of BigLaw misery and grab the brass ring now!”
KK
Oh lord please take the mid-size firm job. You will not feel like you missed out on anything, I promise. I graduated in the top ten (people, not percent) of my first tier law school class w/ law review etc, and I work for a local government. I summered at a Big Law firm and it was miserable. I chose to focus on job satisfaction. And I like my job, most of the time. I like the people I work with, I like the courtroom experience I get, and I like that I typically work 40 hrs a week. I don’t make six figures, but all of the above are more important to me. I do not ever for one moment regret not pursuing the BigLaw opportunities I might have been able to get with my law school background.
Trust me, in 5 years, you will care about your day-to-day professional and personal satisfaction, you will not care about the AmLaw ranking of your firm. Also, you didn’t mention student loan debt so I assume you don’t have any. If true, this is such a no brainer. It’s not even close. The best job is the one that is best for you. You need to learn to measure your success by your own internal criteria. Chasing prestige for its own sake is a path to misery.
KLG
“Trust me, in 5 years, you will care about your day-to-day professional and personal satisfaction, you will not care about the AmLaw ranking of your firm.”
This x1,000. I’m 5 years out of law school and I went straight to a well respected midlaw firm (because I was not a candidate for BigLaw) doing litigation and still got burned out on the hours/expectations (which while much lower than BigLaw were still 2000+ despite it having been billed as a “lifestyle firm”). I got so tired of the “Well if you want to do the minimum and just wear 18 pieces of flair” crap. I have been desperately seeking local and state government positions, as well as in house positions, and have even applied for more entry-level transactional positions with other midlaw firms.
Bluejay
Midlaw. An opportunity to do exactly what you want to do and still make six figures? Why would you even consider anything else?
Biglaw is overrated. They will treat you as fungible, give you grunt work, chew you up and spit you out. They won’t treat you as an individual, invest in your success, or have any qualms about laying you off. And you don’t really gain any useful skills in your first couple of years in litigation at a biglaw firm. Take the midlaw job.
In House Counsel
+1.
Having spent 3 yrs in BigLaw, I will say my skill set seemed slightly behind that of my peers who went to mid or small law where there was more responsibility from the start. And currently being in-house, having a transactional practice background opens up a lot more in-house positions than what is generally available for a litigator.
Former MidLevel
I would take the job in your area of interest. BigLaw can have good training (not just doc review), but not always. So I definitely wouldn’t give up a great job just for that reason.
Anon
It is really clear from your post that you want to take the midlaw job. Go for it, and don’t worry about what others think. It sounds like the training you will get at midlaw will far surpass the training you will get in biglaw.
anon for this
Hi, all — regular poster going anon for this in case there are any revealing details.
I worked with someone a few years ago that I strongly disliked for many reasons (and I wasn’t the only one). I don’t trust this person at all, based on business decisions that were made while we worked together. We only worked together for a few months before I left the company, but the negative impression remained. I haven’t seen or talked to this person since.
Recently, I noticed via this person’s posts on social media that he/she had been laid off and was looking for work. Then the person contacted me to see if we could get together next week and talk about opportunities in the industry. I currently work at a company that I know this person would be interested in working for.
How should I respond? I don’t want to burn any bridges, but I don’t want to go out of my way to help, either.
Monday
It sounds like a situation in which the best thing to do is to ignore the message, honestly. Any kind of explanation as to why you don’t want to meet, or–worse–a meeting in which you have to directly say “no, I will not put in a good word for you/pass on your resume/let you know of openings at my employer” will do more to burn a bridge than just not writing back. That way it’s at least plausible that you never received the note. I almost never believe in being evasive, but sometimes it is logical.
I’d feel differently if you liked or respected this person, if they had kept in touch, or if you had some social reason for needing to be generous/empathetic, but none of these things is true. You say you don’t want to help, and you definitely don’t want to have your name attached to someone who may be unprofessional or backstabbing again in the future. I think if I were you I’d take a deep breath, delete the note, and just try not to feel guilty about it. This person blew it with you, apparently, so it’s time to protect yourself.
Bluejay
I would just reply and say you’re too busy to meet, but include a link to your company’s current positions and contact info for your company’s recruiter. Wish him/her the best of luck and be polite if s/he follows up with more questions.
eek
Bluejay is nicer than me :D
K...in transition
I wouldn’t do this… it could be mistaken as an ok for the person to use your name as a reference or say that you encouraged him/her to reach out… which you don’t want.
I’d either ignore the email all together and hope others respond and s/he goes off in another direction or respond that you don’t know of anything but wish him/her all the best and hope s/he sees it both as you not wanting to be a part of his/her search -and- that there isn’t anything open at your company haha
Bluejay
I don’t really see what’s wrong with him using her name in an email to the recruiter. If the recruiter asks her what she thinks, she can be honest and say she wouldn’t recommend him. Sending him information that’s publicly available anyway can’t hurt, and deliberately not replying to an email is unprofessional and liable to burn bridges.
cfm
They might not even ask her. He might just use her name
eek
Ignore it. This person is trying to use you and you can’t be of any help to them given your past. Since you said trust is a big issue with this person, you don’t want to be associated with them in any way. Also, I couldn’t tell from your post, but if the social media is LinkedIn or FB are you “friends” with this individual?
hellskitchen
I have experienced this – a former colleague who I disliked extremely reached out to me about positions with my current company. I met him, shared what was mostly open knowledge about my company, and said that he should feel free to apply directly… it wouldn’t be of any use for me to share his resume because we have a centralized hiring system . I knew HR would call me if he applied because they’d see we have an employer in common and when they did, I was ready to share my concerns with them. Even though I had no intention of helping him, I decided to keep my emotions aside and meet precisely because I don’t want to burn bridges for future. I have no illusions that he would help me if roles were reversed in future but at the very least, I wouldn’t want him to paint me as malicious or anything because I refused to meet him. I made no promises about doing anything for him and didn’t share any confidential info and it took about 30 minutes out of my day so I didn’t go out of my way to help, but didn’t burn bridges either
Ella
I think the suggestion to actively share your company’s job listings only to then turn around and give a negative review is awful. Don’t you think that in sending this company information to the job hunter you’re implying that you would serve as a referral? Or at the very least, won’t actually disparage the candidate? This blows my mind. If this is public information, then he could find it on his own without correspondingly linking your name to the recruiting manager. You’re actually reducing his chances of finding employment, while purporting to “help.”
Ella
My comment was directed not as much at hells kitchen, since it sounds like the candidate couldn’t use you as a referral anyway and you can’t help it if HR calls you on the basis of a common previous employer. Rather it was to the person above who even acknowledged that sending the information over makes it likely that her name will be used as a referral by the candidate.
mamabear
I haven’t been in your exact situation, but not too long ago, a former colleague who had left our offices under not the best of terms applied to come back. All the senior management had changed in the interim and I wasn’t sure how much they knew about this guy. So, yes, I went to senior management and blackballed him.
It doesn’t sound very nice of me, and it wasn’t, but business isn’t always about being nice. And this guy wasn’t nice, either. He was a pathological liar and a narcissist, and not only did I not want to work with him again, I didn’t want the company again exposed to the kind of litigation that had resulted from his first stint with us.
In your situation, I would ignore his contacts with you and have a word with HR in case he finds another route into applying with your company.
Monday
mamabear’s recommendation is at least consistent: no, I will not correspond with you, + no, I will not put in a good word for you and in fact may make a point to put in a bad word about you. I think it shows more professionalism and integrity than smoothing things over by seeming to offer some support, + intervening against his application in ways he can’t see or be sure of. (The applicant has turned into a guy over the course of this thread, but we don’t know–could be a woman.)
anon for this
Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate it. You brought up some points I hadn’t even considered. I think laying low is probably the best thing to do in this case, but I’m going to keep thinking about it.
oclg
Can someone explain summer scarves to me? I have been trying to accessorize more this summer, both at work and off duty, but it has been so hot that even when a scarf is summer weight and colors I feel like it looks too heavy and bulky and seasonally inappropriate. Does the concept just not translate to Southern California summers or am I doing it wrong? The one I like the most is white, lavender, and mint green but it just feels wrong.
Senior Attorney
I’m in So Cal and I wear scarves in the summer — although not this past week in triple-digit temps. Drape it loosely (even just once around the neck with no loop like Nicole Richie here: http://www.womenscareerchannel.com/fashion-and-design-blog/mallory-korol/the-summer-scarf.678.html) and have the courage of your fashion convictions and you will look great!
Bluejay
They definitely don’t work in really hot climates. Whenever I wear one in DC, it just gets drenched with sweat and destroyed. But in a cooler climate, it’s a nice look and keeps the sun’s rays from directly hitting your neck and chest.
mamabear
I live in a climate that has cool summers (San Francisco) so I wear them here a lot. When I travel to hotter climates, and lately I do this a lot, I bring them along anyway. When I’m in the hotter climate, I can’t imagine wearing them outside. But there have been plenty of over-air-conditioned buildings where I’ve been glad I had one in my bag or tied to my bag. I’ve also used them in the evenings when it cools off.
M-C
Summer scarves are great. For those A/C attacks, whether at work or at some restaurant or something. For late evenings when it’s still too hot to wear a jacket but a breeze comes up. You’re just not meant to wear them all day long :-).
zora
ok, i know we are under a strict No Olympic Spoilers Blackout, and I respect that. But, London peeps, where is all the “London Olympics Disrupting Life and Being Obnoxious” Gossip?!?! I want Gossip, and being annoyed by tourists and athletes and media being a pain vicariously! Cough it up, chicas!
Cb
The rumors from up here is that disruption is pretty minimal. The papers had a field dayw with all the empty seats in the first few days but apparently things are running pretty smoothly. I think Team GBs success has taken the edge off criticism as well.
In my city, the current drama is that the military jets are flying too low and creating terrorism scares. I rolled my eyes but have to admit, I nearly fell off my bed the first night they came swooping through.
TCFKAG
Elle-Comma-Woods says people have pretty much decamped so she says its been pretty easy breezy, especially since most of the venues are away from the work areas. She seems to be enjoying it actually (sorry to speak for her…)
Senior Attorney
I was in L.A. for the 1984 Olympics (yes, I am very very old) and everybody was all worried about it and, as TCFKAG says, everybody left town. Turned out to be less traffic and fewer people than normal! Plus one couldn’t help but get caught up in the excitement. Perhaps that’s what’s going on in London as well!
scientist
That was my experience (went for week 1 to visit SO’s family and see some events). His family and friends said that many people were given flex schedules and telecommuting options. I didn’t have any issues dealing with public transport while we were there.
Well, that’s not strictly true. We did get backed up going to the Millennium Stadium and leaving Wembly, but it was really not a madhouse in any way.
zora
aw, damn, I wanted more drama! silly London proving everyone (read Mitt Romney) wrong and being all prepared, humph … (hee)
Basics
We may be on an Olympic news blackout, but we are not on a Duchess of Cambridge fashion blackout! I have loved seeing her outfits during the Olympics (as always). She always looks elegant and appropriate. I wonder if it’s possible to distill a set of “Catherine Rules” to keep in mind. I would start with:
* when in doubt, favor solids over patterns (and smaller patterns over larger patterns)
* show no décolletage
* no sleeveless tops
* neutral makeup
What others do you all notice?
Elle Urker
She’s married to a future head of state. As a Brit who actually admires the Royal Family as part of our history and culture, not just because I like their clothes, I beg of you – live a little. I bet she wishes she could. Seriously. It’s a bit sad to watch Americans wet themselves over someone displaying a little elegance.
marriedwithoutchildren
I am in love with this blog and the community here but I am so not a style maven/shopper. I have to schedule time to shop and it’s like going to a doctor’s appointment. DH is out today so I scheduled shopping today, and guess what, never made it. It’s summertime so I’d rather sit around in a sun dress, no make-up, no jewelry, and enjoy the outdoors/putz around the house/listen to music/catch up with girlfriends over the phone. It doesn’t help that we are on a budget due to saving up for a house.
Anyway, will probably just start online shopping out of laziness, having sworn off it in the past. Just wanted to vent!
TCFKAG
I used to be you. (I still am, to a degree). I’d go shopping and leave with nothing because (a) I hate spending money and (b) I hate being in the mall and at the store and I get tired easily. But then I learned to on-line shop quickly and efficiently and now I actually (sort of) enjoy it…though more for other people!
If you need something specific, swing by my tumblr and ask a question. (BTW, the more specific info you can give me, the more I can help!
Merabella
I LOVE online shopping. I even bought my wedding dress online without ever trying one on in a shop. I hate going to malls, partly I think because I worked in retail for so long. Give online shopping a try. I suggest starting out at places that have free shipping both ways and a little trial and error.
New poster
Does anyone have experience hand-washing Equipment silk blouses? I just had what I would like to be my last run-in with a dry cleaner who ruined yet another of my silk blouses and I am ready to switch to just washing them myself. I’ve done a few of them before with good results, but I haven’t tried the Equipment ones yet. They are a little bit thicker silk and pretty expensive, so just wanted to get some feedback before jumping in.
Also, any tips for removing stains from silk blouses? Part of my dry cleaner problem is that I always have some kind of food stain on everything I bring in, and sometimes they miss it and then the stain gets locked in by pressing. Thanks for any advice.
M-C
This: http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Wand-Stain-Remover-Stick/dp/B0002ILY96/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344896675&sr=8-1 it’s never failed me, works on all fabrics including silk without discoloration. And I’m a major food-down-the-blouse klutz.
K...in transition
The neighborhood kids (5 of them, ranging from ages 8-12ish) have met and fallen in love with my new puppy. When we happen to be outside at the same time, this is awesome for all. However, the kids have now begun to come knock on my door when they want to play with him, knocking every 10ish mins. 3-4 times in a row, 2-3 times each day. I think these kids are at their dad’s for weekends or something as I only see them sometimes… They just came by for knocking round 4 and I came to the door, said I was working right now and couldn’t bring him out, and they looked broken. It was all I could do to tell them to have a nice day and close the door… I hate it! How do I explain to them without hurting their feelings that, while they’re welcome to play when they see us outside, I don’t want them knocking on my door and interrupting my day, let alone doing so repeatedly? For the past few days, I’ve kept my living room curtains drawn and avoided the kitchen (where the curtains are sheer) because they seem to think that my being home = an open invitation to knock.
NOLA
Stop answering the door. They’ll get the point eventually.
NOLA
OK, I definitely sound like “get off my lawn, you kids.”
Mighty Mouse
I think a simple, fun sign could do the trick. I’m imagining one with two sides —“Puppy can play” and “Puppy can’t play.” Bonus points for picture of a happy, awake puppy and a snoozing one.
Having them knock on the door is like a slot machine. Hope springs eternal that *this* will be the lucky time that he / she will be available! Be consistent.
(Hokey, yes, but as a former grade school teacher, I’m down with hokey if it solves problems. Good luck!)
Blonde Lawyer
Love this! I also had neighborhood kids that would come over to visit my dog but only after dinner and only while accompanying their mom on a walk so it wasn’t disruptive.
KLG
This has become pretty popular in some neighborhoods near me. A lot of houses have signs hanging on the doorknobs with a red side and a green side. Red means the kids can’t play, green means they can. Most kids like rules and will abide by them if you explain it.
Bluejay
You tell them exactly what you said in your post. “Bella and Brayden, you are welcome to play with the puppy when you see us outside, but please do not knock on my door and interrupt me again.” If you normally walk the dog at a particular time, you could suggest to the kids that they come outside at that time to see the puppy.
mamabear
Agree with the just-prior poster. One thing you learn as a parent is that children are accustomed to being told what and what not to do. They like rules (even if they don’t always like obeying them.)
So you don’t have to pussyfoot around about their feelings. I would be horrified to learn my kids were bugging a neighbor, as would most parents. So I agree with a prior poster – “Hey kids. Here are the rules about my puppy. When you see us outside, you can ask if you can play with the puppy. But if you don’t see the puppy, don’t knock on my door. I do my work at my house and I can’t answer the door all the time.”
You may have to remind them of the rules a couple of times, and then if that doesn’t work, you’ll need to find their parents – and actually, just asking who their parents are might do the trick.
mamabear
I’m in moderation for using the p-word
Agree with the just-prior poster. One thing you learn as a parent is that children are accustomed to being told what and what not to do. They like rules (even if they don’t always like obeying them.)
So you don’t have to TIPTOE around about their feelings. I would be horrified to learn my kids were bugging a neighbor, as would most parents. So I agree with a prior poster – “Hey kids. Here are the rules about my puppy. When you see us outside, you can ask if you can play with the puppy. But if you don’t see the puppy, don’t knock on my door. I do my work at my house and I can’t answer the door all the time.”
You may have to remind them of the rules a couple of times, and then if that doesn’t work, you’ll need to find their parents – and actually, just asking who their parents are might do the trick.
JessC
What wise, wise mambear said. My mom would have been mortified to know that find out I was bothering one of our neighbors like that. At the age, they’re old enough that your reasons can be (simply) explained to them and they should understand as long as you lay out clear rules.
“Hey kids, it’s great that you like to play with puppy and puppy really loves it but here’s the thing – I’m a writer and I work from my house. So eventhough I’m at home, I’m probably working. But I typically walk puppy at (insert times when you typically go out for walks), so if you see us then you are totally welcome to come play with puppy.”
If they continue to come knocking at your door, remind them of what you said and when you’ll be walking. If all else fails, find out who their parents are and talk to them.
Cb
I remain perplexed by peplum, just received an email from Hobbs with a £99 leather peplum piece that you attach to your clothes. So confused.
Help wanted
I am involved in a workplace flirtation game for lack of better terminology for the purpose of boosting my ego after the breakup of a long term marriage. The other party is in the same situation. We have gone out for drinks a couple of times. He sends me very mixed signals by doing stuff like asking me out and then telling me about the other women he is dating. I want to play back. Does anyone have any really good ideas. I have a few up my sleeve.
cfm
Yes! Here is an idea- don’t do this.
mamabear
Here’s a good idea – date someone else. Don’t date this jerk. I can’t imagine how having him manipulate you like this could possibly boost your ego.
Workplace flirtations/affairs/romances are almost always disastrous anyway.
Write an online profile for yourself and get out there. That will do far, far more for your ego than listening to this DOOSH tell you about all the other women he’s dating while he’s dating you.
M-C
Almost always disastrous for the woman in any case.
Especially if the guy is a jerk like this one..
Anne Shirley
YES so many ideas. Stop wearing panties to work. Tell him about this. Accidentally get caught banging someone else in the conference room. Start sending each other “sexy” emails at work. Accidentally forward to the whole office. Get really drunk, need a ride home, and spend your time bawling on his couch because. life. is. just. so. hard. Invite your intern to join your for a threesome.
Ladies, fingers crossed one of us works with Help wanted and we get to see how these ideas play out.
A to Z
I’m 47 about to be 48. I want to get myself a pair of really cool jeans that I can wear for casual Fridays or date night. I have an excellent figure for my age. I am 5’5″ with a long torso, slender hips, and only a 29″ natural inseam. I am fairly out of touch with the jeans world, and I know you can get jeans everywhere. I wear a size 2 or 4, or a 27. Any recommendations?
Supra
I would reccomend going into a store with a wide selection and have a general idea of wash and cut (skinny, boot cut, straight, etc). Tell the salesperson what you’re looking for and have them bring you different brands. Bring shoes you would likely wear, and maybe a top that you would likely wear. Try them all on and narrow it down. Prepare to spend between $150 and $200.
LawyrChk
I love Joe’s jeans, but I second everything Supra said – bring your shoes with you and try on lots of pairs (even in some styles that you don’t like on the hanger). I also think Gap still makes so fantastic jeans, so you may want to try their long and lean style (even better if your perfect jeans cost $60 instead of $160, right?).
Diana Barry
Will post this again tomorrow if no replies – does anyone have a Boden code for more than 10% off? I want to order several things for fall but my code from the catalog is only 10%.
Thanks!
I'm Just Me
W32N might give 15% according to some of the Boden bloggers. Not sure if it has free ship/free return with it.
SoCal Gator
I love the Boden fall catalog. Ordered and received some really cute items. Lots of polka dots!
Flats?
I saw a woman wearing a terrific pair of flats in SF last week and should have asked her who makes them. Does anyone have an idea:
Leather
No toe cleavage
Rounded square toe box
Bow ties over toe made of cord with brass/gold metal aglets at ends
Rubber running shoe type sole that continues up the back of the heel about an inch
They looked elegant and very walkable.
TIA!
NOLA
It sounds like they might be Tod’s: http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/tods-bow-trim-flat/3342142?cm_cat=datafeed&cm_ite=tod%27s_bow_trim_flat:362279_2&cm_pla=shoes:women:flats&cm_ven=Google_Product_Ads&mr:ad=20584803593&mr:adType=pla&mr:keyword={keyword}&mr:referralID=NA&mr:trackingCode=90DFB34D-5EFB-E011-8116-001517B1882A&origin=pla
NOLA
Or these Donald Pliner?: http://www.lastcall.com/p/Donald-J-Pliner-Dance19-Ballerina-Flat-Black-Patent-Shoes/prod12190025/?ecid=LCALRFeedJ84DHJLQkR4&ncx=n&uEm=%%affiliates%%&ci_src=14110925&ci_sku=prod12190025skuBLACK
Flats?
May well be the Tod’s (definitely not the Pliners). Thanks! Wow. That’s a lot of money for non-office shoes.
associate
They sound like elie tahari to me.