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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I’m very into this oversized houndstooth print from Akris Punto. A camel skirt like this is a workhorse piece for me from October through December. I wear them with tights and boots for every occasion from work to holiday parties.
Would I prefer if brands could tell us the length of their skirts so we’re not left to guess if we’re buying a micro-mini or a knee-length? Sure, but my best guess is that if it’s hitting a few inches above the knee on a 5’10” model, it’s probably going to be right around the top of the kneecap on my 5’6” self. Perfect for the office or your coworker's White Elephant holiday party.
The skirt is $595 at Neiman Marcus and comes in sizes 2-16.
A couple of more affordable alternatives are from Ann Taylor ($52 on sale; lucky sizes) and Kate Spade ($248; note that again, the model is 5'10”). There's also this Talbots skirt, available in three size ranges ($97 at checkout).
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Anon
Again, models do not wear the same versions of the items we buy. They wear longer versions made especially for tall models. This may not be true for fast fashion, but for a higher end or designer brand like Akris it’s certainly the case. I don’t expect every commenter to know this, but the author of a fashion blog should.
Anon
I thought catalog.website models weren’t especially tall, and only runway models are?
Kate
Generally speaking, they are all tall. Certainly above 5’8.
Anon
I really don’t care to buy items I’ve never seen pictured in the version I’m going to buy!
Anonymous
Not understanding where your criticism of the blog fits in to the description. All Elizabeth wrote was that she wanted to know the skirt’s length, which only reinforces your note about the model’s skirt not being the actual skirt length?
Anon
I think they are saying that the probably very tall model is wearing a skirt specially made for her to approximate the way the skirt would look on an average height person. So we can assume the skirt we be roughly as short as shown on us. First I’ve heard of this, btw.
Dress
Except the analysis comparing the skirt on a woman of the model’s height versus the average wearer assumes that the same skirt would be worn by both – OP is pointing out that assumption is false.
Anonymous
It’s so rude to start a fresh sentence with “again”. It implies the person was too dumb to comprehend it the first time .
Anonymous
Am I the only one who would feel like her feet are boats in these shoes?
Anon
I don’t mind the shoes, but I thought at first glance this model was wearing nothing weird black loincloth flaps with her shoes.
Anon
I was doing some self acceptance stuff the other day – mentally listing things I like about myself that others have criticized.
My big feet (size 10/EUR 41) are one of those things. I like my big feet even though my mom wore the same shoe size, and made fun of me about mine as soon as I grew into the size.
I think big feet look good in shoes, I think they complement my legs. I have no issue with having big feet and I always wonder why people have such loathing of their own.
In case anyone is interested in other elements of things I like about myself that others have criticized:
– my height (5’10” which was kinda hard when I was taller than all the boys, but it’s great now)
– my name. (Didn’t change my name when I got married)
– my brown hair (despite my sister and aunt always asking why I don’t dye it blond)
Anon.
After I quit smoking and went into menopause, I gained a lot of belly weight and still wear size A bras. I absolutely will wear a bikini at the beach because it feels good! I don’t care what others think because I accepted my body. I am so much healthier than I was when I smoked.
Anon
Suggestion: a great Friday thread could be “things I like about myself for which I have received criticism.” It’s thought provoking and self affirming.
Anon
Good idea.
anon
Your feet are perfect for your height. I can’t imagine someone picking on you for that. Strike that. I can imagine being picked on for just about anything…
I have the same size 10ish feet and am much shorter than you. Big bright white leather grandpa tennis shoes are not a good look for me. Or anyone, to be honest. But my grandpa.
Anonymous
I wear an 11 wide and sometimes 12 wide in shoes. I’ve learned to appreciate that I can also wear mens shoes because the width is perfect. I’ve gotten some amazing deals over the years on pink or purple mens sneakers or slippers. Glass half full?
Seriously though–I also went through cancer and went a number of weeks with very little walking while I healed from surgery. Nothing better than being able to appreciate walking again. I love my feet because they carry me.
Anon
Hugs to you. Love that appreciation of your feet.
I’m the shoe size 10 poster and had to buy men’s cowboy boots when I really really wanted some cowboy(girl) boots. I just could not get my foot into a pull-on boot, even in women’s size 10. I was like one of Cinderella’s step sisters trying to get those things on. But now I have my (men’s) boots and I love them.
Alex Mack
My mom always said “a good house needs a strong foundation” when I lamented my shoe size.
Anon
The women in my family for generations have had feet that are large relative to their height. My great grandmother said that we are well planted upon the earth.
Anon
My dad said that I have a good understanding.
Anon
Ah yes, that’s how I style a skirt for work: no shirt and giant shoes.
Anonymous
Sure, not for work, but after hours?
NaoNao
I think the shirt happens to be the camel color in the skirt which also happens to almost exactly match her skintone. But it’s a confusing outfit on first glance that’s for sure!
Anonymous
Hehe, thanks for the laugh!
AnonAnon
Reposting from weekend thread (please feel free to collapse and ignore.)
Might repost during the week but: What car do you drive or what would be your top choice car to buy? Do you try to pay off a car and drive it into the ground or replace fairly frequently?
We have two 2017 Toyotas (a Highlander and a RAV4, both hybrid.) I have a fairly dangerous (aggressive, speeding drivers) daily highway commute and twin teens who will start to drive soon. In the past, I’ve had a vehicle that I maintained well but was on the older side randomly just die during my commute and I’m not eager to repeat that.
Do I get a newer car and drive that one or have the teens drive the most updated/safest vehicle? Considering a hybrid Toyota Corolla Cross or a Highlander for me (I think that would be too big for a newer driver potentially. Our last Highlander was a 2013 with I think 170,000 miles on it-we finally paid it off, out $3k in repairs in it then a month later it needed $7k in repairs. Trying to sort out how important it is to not have a car payment vs. At some point putting monthly payments into a newer, reliable car for highway commute.
Anonymous
My teen got a 3 year used Subaru. I wanted a safe car with all wheel drive for her. Our family cars are large SUVs machine were both $$$ and too much car for her.
Cat
You got 20+ comments on your post – do you have follow-up questions based on the replies?
Anon
This. Not everything needs office-bowling level of discussion.
Anon
Hahaha
Anon
Ok but should I have an office bowling party? /jk
Anon
Only if you carpool there in a model year 2023 or later vehicle.
Anon
But what car is suitable for driving to an after hours but required bowling party that I don’t want to go to?
Anon
It needs the following features:
-all electric or at least hybrid
-backup cameras
-auto braking
-blind spot warnings
-lane assist
-a trunk big enough for the bowling balls
-big enough for your coworkers to fit into, whether they be 6’7 or need an oxygen tank
-not so big that you’re towering over other cars on the road
-four wheel drive
-ignition interlock to sense your BAC and not start if you have had more than 0.5 units of alcohol in the last 3 days.
-fold down rear seats for Ell3n’s boss to look at her tuchus
Anon
@12:30 I was looking for a checklist for car shopping and now I have one! Thanks for putting it all in one place.
Anon
You’re welcome! Take that, Monday – I’m the boss!
Anon at 12:25
I enjoyed your snarky yet on point response!
Anonymous
Mazda 3 sedan. I’d buy it again though I doubt that’s an option for your or your teens as most people want an SUV now. As for the replace cars all the time or drive them forever – I fall in the middle. I live in DC so while I spend a lot of time sitting in aggressive traffic, the distance between places isn’t large and often you just end up walking or taking metro or uber. So I get new Japanese cars and try to put some mileage on them rather than just getting a new one every 36 months. But I try to replace them every 10 years or so – no where near 100k miles. Most of these cars are now designed to last like 200k miles but I feel like after 8 to 10 years there are always new, modern features that I want – some safety and some just that make it more fun to drive.
Anon
It makes not to give teenagers a car so old that it doesn’t have modern safety features like airbags or a backup camera, but I can’t imagine that’s going to be an issue with a 2017 car. Some of the latest tech might actually make it harder to learn how to drive and less safe because all the screens and beeping are so distracting. And it will definitely be more expensive when they get into fender benders or scrape up the bumpers learning to park and accidentally take out a sensor or camera that costs thousands to replace.
And to answer your question, we have a 10 year old Mazda cx5. We both work from home, so we don’t put a lot of miles on it, but it hasn’t needed a single repair yet and hope to to keep driving it for a while, though we’ll definitely replace it well before the driving into the ground stage.
Anon
I think this also depends on the teen. Are they going to outsource their judgement to the technology, or do they see it as one tool in the safety toolbox?
Anonymous
Yeah, I’d give the teens one of your 2017 cars. If anything, I’d prefer not to give them an SUV as I think kids should learn to drive in sedans and people drive too many SUVs around our roads (SUVs are sometimes safer for drivers but more dangerous for other cars and pedestrians, also they make parking a lot harder in cities). If you don’t want to buy a new car right now, you could get them a used car. There is always the chance that they run a car into the side of the garage or tap someone while parking. I’d never give a teen a new car personally, in case they total it soon after.
Anon
Are you commuting in the Detroit area :) I’d think about this in terms of active safety and passive safety. New cars have a lot of active safety features meant to avoid accidents like automatic crash detection, driver alerts, etc that can be super helpful with new drivers. My Audi Q3, for example, has turn assist which as soon as I put on the left turn signal, will monitor the intersection and put on the brakes and keep the car within the lane to avoid an oncoming car that’s too close. It did activate once and it did keep me from at least a close call with a car that popped out of nowhere around a corner going too fast. I did drive a Subaru when I was car shopping that had too many driver warnings, it was super distracting. I include steering capability in active safety which is why I favor German cars, a lot of other makes have really loose steering; better braking is also active safety.
Then there is passive safety which are seat belts, air bags, crumple zones, etc. designed to protect during an accident.
If it was me, I’d always put inexperienced drivers in the safest car with both safety factors – are they going to be driving on that same highway with the same drivers? You know how to compensate with experience, they don’t. And I hear you about the reliability and that’s a safety issue too for them as well as you.
Anon
Buy with cash, drive into the ground (usually ~10-15 years). The kid car question is theoretical for us at this point, but I’m a fan of oldest car to kid for in-town daily driving and borrow newer parent car for longer driving. My spouse strongly feels kid needs newest safety features, and given the strength of his opinion and the logic behind it that I see too, this will probably be what we do.
Anon2
+1. As long as the older car isn’t unsafe, I’d give that to the teen. I think it’s a valid argument that some of the tech features impede a teen developing their own instincts and taking time to make their own safety judgements. As an example, now that every car has a back up camera it seem no one uses the mirrors! (I’m not saying to not use the camera, but as an example of becoming overly reliant on technology.) Now cars beep when something is in the blind spot, but will that lead to teens relying on the beep instead of getting in the habit of thoroughly checking with their eyes before moving?
Our newest car is a 2018 and it has all sorts of bells and whistles (brake assist, steering alerts, etc) so I can’t imagine a 2017 would be too far behind.
Anonymous
Your teens do not need a brand new car. Your old car isn’t even that old.
anon
+1
The chances your teens will cause damage to the car is high. It is already practically new (on my scale obviously). There is no reason they need a newer car for safety reasons.
Anon
Yeah, my teen driver got our second-oldest car (manufactured the year she was born) and traded it two years later when heading off to college for our first-oldest car, because that one gets better gas mileage. I don’t understand the mindset that cars manufactured this century are somehow so woefully, inherently unsafe that a teen driver can’t deal without the froo-froo features in newer models.
It honestly worries me that some drivers are so inept that they can barely function even with all of those features (but explains the utterly flabbergasting behavior I encounter when they are forced to drive without them).
Anon
If you want a new car, this is not the audience to ask. I’m always an outlier in that I like new to newer cars and if you drive a lot, I think it’s worth it. In your shoes, I’d give your kids your old car and get something fun for yourself and graduate out of the mom car era.
Anon.
I am out of mom era and in the market! But I am afraid I won’t like sitting low in sedans. What would you suggest?
Anon
Might not help you, but I absolutely love my Mini Cooper.
Anon
I bought my first new car last year: Audi Q4. Otherwise, I have had a series of used cars that have all been great, save the two VW Jettas.
I drive my cars into the ground, pay cash or pay half cash half financing with the full balance paid off with a bonus (the Audi).
As a teen in the mid-late ‘90s, my parents gave me the old gross car (the minivan used to go the barn). I was fine. It didn’t even have cupholders or FM radio. I get times have changed and yes I would want a teen to have airbags and such, but as an “old” I find things like lane assist and back up cameras and touch screens to be hella distracting and even jarring at times. I have turned off lane assist after it scared the bejeesus out of me one too many times, turn the sound off on the backup cam and never look at it, and use my steering wheel controls vs touch screen as much as possible. The thing I wish I had splurged for though is the heads-up display.
anon
Please don’t give your teens an SUV or other big car if you can make a different choice. Big cars are a lot more deadly to others, especially pedestrians and cyclists.
Anonymous
Agreed. People are too pro-SUV. I know they have positives for drivers but I really wish we would move away from SUVs and trucks for fun.
Inauguration 2025
At the risk of jinxing it, my friend and I are thinking of attending the Presidential Inauguration in DC in January. We live in Michigan so we would fly in to DC. That’s about all we have planned so far. As expected, most hotels and rentals in the area are booked for that weekend, and the ones that aren’t are over $1000/night and are non-refundable. I’m ok with shelling out $$$ for this since it coincides with my milestone birthday and I am *hoping* to witness history. I think my friend would be more comfortable with spending a little less and getting at least a partial refund if the election doesn’t go our way and we have to cancel. We have been including Arlington, Alexandria and Silver Spring in our search. I was thinking about Baltimore too but the MARC won’t operate that weekend and Amtrak tickets are mostly sold out. Any other areas we should be looking at? I’ll write to our congressperson to see if we can get tickets to the ceremony. Any insider tips for attending the inauguration are appreciated!
Bean
I lived in Chinatown during Obama’s inauguration and rented out my place that weekend. If hotels get too expensive for your friend, I would checkout craigslist or FBmarketplace rentals. There may be people who are renting out their place for a little extra cash just for that weekend but who don’t normally rent out and don’t want to go through the hassle of listing their space on Airbnb. Make sure you get out early! Especially the further out in the suburbs you get. The metros were packed during Obama’s.
Anon
College Park MD has a metro station and, according to Expedia, hotels that are running for about $350-400 per night for a stay from 1/19-1/21. I used to go to college at UMCP and can confirm that it’s relatively easy to get into DC from there.
anon
We stayed in Northern Virgina for Obama’s inauguration and took the VRE in – looks like it goes to Union Station and from there you can transfer to Capitol South (?). As the poster above said, metros were packed. Be prepared for a long day and lots of waiting around. The mood was amazing, though, and everyone was so happy and friendly.
Anonymous
You can walk from Union to the Capitol – it’ll be packed with other walkers and you’re on the capitol complex once you cross the street out of the station. Look at any town along the VRE that has hotel availability. While Alexandria is likely sold out, is Woodbridge or Burke Centre or Manassas really going to sell out every random Hampton Inn? Live in DC and I can’t believe people spent time and money coming in for this sort of thing. I mean I’m hoping for the same result as you, though I don’t genuinely believe it’ll happen, but are we really THAT excited about her??
Anonymous
Yes, we are.
Anon
I think inaugurations generally sell out all area hotels (except 2020 which was strange because of Covid). I don’t think it’s unique to Kamala. I mean, in my small Midwest city every hotel in a 50+ mile radius is sold out on State U football and graduation weekends, and that’s much less of a big deal than a presidential inauguration.
But also if she wins it’s obviously an incredibly historic event so people will be excited about that even if they aren’t excited about her. I don’t think she will win though.
Anon
I mean, first woman president? First POC woman president? It’s a huge deal.
Anonymous
Yes, I am!
Anonie
HECK YEAH WE ARE!
KS IT Chick
I am! I’m part of a private group on Facebook that just passed 30K members that is working to mobilize voters in Kansas. Not just for the presidential election, but for down ballot races. We’re trying to break the super majority in our statehouse, and we have a good chance.
Every time the Chiefs play, we count up how many points their kicker scores. We then donate to local Democratic candidates, especially women, in his name in multiples of his point total.
Anon
I love this so much. F— that kicker.
KS IT Chick
The best part is he gets a postcard for each donation at the stadium.
Anonymous
I might go but my plan is to do it as a long day trip from NYC or crash at a friend’s overnight.
Dress
I recommend just looking at hotels nearer to the ends of the metros – including out by Dulles. Prepare to walk a lot and prepare to be outside in the cold – the day of Obama’s inauguration was FRIGID.
Anon
please stop jinxing it!!! i’m very superstitious
Anon
I know. I cringed as soon as I read this.
Anon NYC
This is how I feel! I’m hopefully but it’s pretty much 50/50. I have no desire to be at the inauguration even if she does win. I’d want to be as far from DC as possible given January 6.
Natasha McShane
Ugh, same. I hate it here.
Bean
What is more comfortable to sleep on – a murphy bed or a pullout loveseat? Expecting first child in a few months and my mom will be coming to stay for a few weeks. Baby’s room will have to double as guest room as we don’t have enough space for a dedicated guest room. Whatever we get will have to be compact as the room isn’t very big. For murphy bed, I’m looking at something like the Dolphine solid wood murphy bed by Loon Peak on Wayfair since I have a strong preference for real wood, I can make the dimensions work, and the top can double as a changing table. I don’t have anything picked out for a pullout loveseat, so open to suggestions if anyone thinks that’s a better option.
Anonymous
We have a pullout loveseat and recently upgraded the mattress and got a board to put under the mattress and it is very comfortable. The board folds up and stores under the loveseat when not in use.
Bean
which loveseat do you have?
Shelle
Can I ask where you bought the foldable board? Thanks!
Alex Mack
Another request for more info. We are in the market for a pullout loveseat.
Anon
I don’t have the pullout couch anymore but I did buy one of those boards when I had one and it made a huge difference.
For a third option, do you have room for a twin bed in the room, maybe styled as a daybed? Sometimes it’s handy to have a bed you can lie down on in baby’s room, for a variety of reasons.
Anonymous
I’m the OP of this comment and I got the loveseat at Bob’s discount furniture 12+ years ago, haha. I was living in a tiny apartment and my requirements were smallest loveseat with a pull out couch you can find. It got uncomfortable through wear and I was going to replace it, and when searching for a replacement I heard an episode of Forever35 that mentioned that Wirecutter had an article about upgrading your existing pull out couch. We just bought the exact recommendations from Wirecutter because we had a guest coming soon. Will link the article separately.
Anonymous
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/guides/upgrades-to-sleeper-sofa/
Veronica Mars
If you have room for a loveseat, can you do a daybed?
Cat
I find Murphy beds typically more comfortable since it’s a real mattress with wood under it to sleep on. Folding mattresses and flimsier metal supports are lumpier.
Anokha
If you have the space, I would consider something like a daybed. We had the CB2 Lubi Bed in our nursery and our parents slept on it for a month (with a down topper). It doesn’t look like they make the Lubi anymore, but the Amala Daybed on Wayfair looks like a good dupe.
Anonymous
another bonus for the daybed: when your kid figures out how to climb out of his/her crib in 2 years you’ll be ready with a twin bed for them to sleep on.
Anonymous
In my experience, the discomfort comes from the bars/edge in the springs that runs through the center of the bed and allow it to be folded up. The mattress can also be too thin, and sometimes the springs are not taut enough. The fold thing is a problem with either the fold-away murphy bed or the loveseat. You can get around it by putting a something solid between the springs and the mattress. I added padding to my mattress with a foam topper, and then a padded mattress cover.
I’d probably go with the murphy bed. My sleeper loveseat has served me well, but I’ve often wanted to keep a guest bed around but not have an extra seating piece in the room. A piece of furniture would allow me to do that more easily.
Anonymous
What about just buying the big kid bed that you plan to have baby move up to and cramming it into the room with the crib? This would have the added benefit of making it easy for the “on-duty” and “off-duty” parents for night wakings to sleep separately.
Anon
+1 – we bought a queen sized ‘big kid’ bed on purpose as the kid’s room turns into grandma/grandpas room during long family stays. Our child camped out in our room in a pack and play as a baby or a sleeping bag as a bigger kid. The bigger bed also works well for cousin sleepovers or when a sick kid needs a parents to snuggle with them before they’ll sleep.
Anon
It probably depends on the size of your bedrooms, but we have a pretty normal-sized house, I think (in Midwest suburbia) and would not want a double or queen bed in the kid’s room — there would be zero floor space for play. A twin has been ideal for our kid who really wants floor space for dolls and Legos, but wouldn’t really be comfortable for guests.
Anon
I think it depends on the kid/your house set up. We have a set of really steep stairs to the level with bedrooms so our kids never really played in their rooms as we didn’t want them going up and downstairs solo when they were small. Then as they got bigger we took all toys (aside from books) out of their rooms to encourage quiet time/naps without distractions. To this day the kids play in a downstairs family room or the finished basement – bedrooms are for reading or sleep only.
Anonymous
A twin is also a big kid bed!
Anon
I don’t think most adult guests would be very comfortable sleeping on a twin bed, and certainly impossible to have two adults in a twin bed. It’s working fine for my elementary schooler though.
Anon
Adding to the chorus of get a twin bed. You will thank me later. I promise.
Nesprin
Murphy bed by a mile- they’re actual beds vs. something that folds.
Anonymous
The IKEA Hemnes day bed is a classic for a reason, if you’ve got the room.
Anonymous
Oh, and there’s a trundle version, if you need it become a double.
Anon
We had a trundle under a twin in my kids’ room when they were tiny. A crib for the baby, a toddler bed for the toddler, and a twin daybed with a trundle. It was tiiight in there, as it was not a big house and the room was small, but we used the heck out of that twin and trundle.
anon
We got a very comfortable pullout couch that is futon style (so no crummy bar in the middle) from Room and Board. All guests and my husband when he was banished there for a week during a bout of covid have said it is actually comfortable. We have it in the same room that we use as an office, it’s quite small. https://www.roomandboard.com/catalog/living/sleeper-sofas/deco-convertible-sleeper-sofa?srsltid=AfmBOooqZR7iPg18Fzw2dTA55SDGxH8L8GlVrMo64xIwBjsZ6_NUqHx_
Anon
A futon style couch is what we currently have in the room we use for tv watching and occasional guest use. It’s comfortable. I’ve slept on it. It was handy to have when that became our COVID isolation room when one family member had it (and the isolation worked). I splashed out for the all cotton and wool seating/mattress and it makes a difference.
Anon
I’m noticing that the friends I have emotional intimacy with and the friends I like to go do stuff with are not necessarily the same people. One of my friends is so wonderful for long chats, but she is a homebody, obsessed with her cats, and rarely wants to do anything but order in at her place. Then I have this group of friends who are really fun, up for anything, but not always the kindest or most thoughtful.
I guess maybe this isn’t a problem but just… life? Something in me wants to get all my needs met from one person or relationship, even though I know that is impossible.
Anon
I think this is very normal and fine.
Anon
That sounds about right to me? I’m an introvert and almost always down for long chats/catch ups/dinners but not up for spur of the moment plans. Is this a new realization for you? Even in HS/college I had different friend groups for concerts/friends who loved shopping/friends for ‘nerdy’ stuff (book festivals/plays/author talks/etc. Appreciating people for the various things they bring to your life seems a pretty normal part of getting older and maturing.
Anonymous
Yes, absolutely, this is just life, and it’s not a problem. I’m your “long talks” friend. If you’re expecting me to also be spontaneous, high energy, ready to go and do at the drop of a hat, and up for anything . . . I’m going to ask you if you’ve lost your mind and haven’t really paid any attention to who I am.
Anon
You sound quite young?
Anon
What a helpful comment! What if — hear me out — people stopped saying this as a snide way to dismiss someone?
Anon NYC
Yea this comment is totally unnecessary.
Anon
I’d replace young with naive, but yes, there’s a lot of naïveté in this question.
Anon
Again, super helpful! What if — hear me out — we didn’t judge other people by the questions they have, and either just tried to help or moved on?
Anon
Calm down.
Anon.
This is making me miss my friend who passed away five years ago. She never wanted to go out but was happy to semi watch something on TV, snack and chat for hours. I always felt like I had recharged after visiting her.
Nona
Anon at 11:05 AM, I can imagine how much you miss a friend like that. I read Corporette in the evening and you may not see this but I was so touched by your comment that I wanted to leave one of my own. I love the idea of my friends feeling “recharged” after speaking with me and this is such a great goal to strive for as a friend. I am going to keep this in mind for future interactions with friends. They may not feel that way after every interaction (because not every day is filled with sunshine and roses) but I would love for them to feel that way after most of our interactions.
Anecdata
Yep, totally normal. Maybe reframe it as an abundance in your life, that you have many strong relationships with many people, who each bring a unique richness to your life?
Anon
+1. I love this reframe. I live in Boston, and also grew up/went to college here, so I am lucky that I still live near childhood/college close friends. I am still close with 4 people, but they all sort of fill a different role in my life — one is my go-to for all things deep and hard in life (we regularly talk aging parents, really tough kid issues, marital problems), but has a really negative view of kid activities — so I don’t get into youth athletic stuff with her. Another friend is deep in youth athletics with kids just a little older than mine, so she is my sounding board if a kid is having a tough time on a team or to celebrate good stuff, but she parents differently enough that she’s not my go-to when a kid is having a hard time at school. I also really have never felt comfortable sharing marital issues with her, and it seems vice versa (our husbands work together at the same law firm, so it honestly has never really felt appropriate). I have one friend who will give you her totally honest opinion, so I go to her if I need an unfiltered opinion (or to have a really helpful critical conversation about a choice). But if I’m just looking to celebrate a decision, she usually isn’t the first person I go to. Finally, one friend is a marriage therapist, and I honestly have the hardest time opening up to her bc she rarely reciprocates with her own experiences. Talking to her about anything serious often feels clinical and one-sided. But she is so much fun and always up for anything, so we get together with our kids a lot for random dinners out or activities when school is out.
I remember posting something like this here once, and I got a ton of criticism — but I feel like it’s a really good thing to have a breadth of people in my life for lots of perspectives/situations.
No Face
This is how I think about my network as well. I am glad I know such a diverse array of people with different strengths and interests. It makes me a better person.
Anonymous
Meet people where they are. When I’ve been hurt or disappointed in friendships, it’s usually because I wanted more from the friendship than the friend was willing or able to provide. Like wanting my homebody friend to celebrate a big event with me. Or confiding in and looking for advice from my drinking buddy friends. No one person can be everything to you and that’s ok.
Been There
I get wanting to have all your needs met by one person. That said, having a diverse portfolio of friends who meet different needs makes you less dependent on one person. What if you and that one person have a falling out? Or she/he gets in a relationship and loses interest in maintaining the friendship to the same degree? etc…etc…Personally I prefer having a range of different people in my life who meet different needs.
Anon
I think it’s dangerous to want all your needs met by one person, but it’s good that you recognize that’s how you feel.
Anon
You can’t get all your needs met by one person, whether it’s friends or a romantic partnership. You have to meet your own needs and stop holding people to a standard they can’t meet.
anonshmanon
Agreed, this puts too much pressure on friends and on yourself, too!
Anonymous
I deleted my Amazon account 2 months ago and it’s the best thing I ever did! I used to waste so much money on stupid stuff. It was so easy to click on some cheap outfit or cosmetic that looked great on an influencer but IRL was nothing I’d ever buy if I saw it in a store. Then I’d be lazy and not return it. My husband stopped buying gadgets we didn’t need for the house and yard. There is no pile of cardboard to recycle at the end of the month. Anything we need we can buy at an actual store after some thought. The actual store where it comes from not Amazon. No more impulse buys. It’s so easy to get sucked into the high of getting a little package every day. It’s been very beneficial to do a reset. Just had to share.
Anonymous
Amazon has been a lifesaver for me on multiple occasions when I need shoes in my hard to fit feet, when my husband needs extra Cpap equipment, or when I need something really specific—like a ring light that can hold an iPad to run captioning. It was also a vital way to get my mom supplies post surgery.
Just had to share. Everybody loves to bash, but it has really come through for me in some difficult times. I also find I’m much faster about returns since my Whole Foods accepts which is a block from my house—lot easier than running all over town.
Anon
+1
I live downtown, no car, and no “big box” stores nearby. Amazon is a lifesaver for things one might normally get at Home Depot or whatever, or things that would be too big or heavy for me to buy in person at a store. I also hate dealing with stores – if I can’t buy it online with free shipping then I don’t want it.
Anon
Opposite situation but same problem. I am in a very rural area and as much as I would prefer not to support Amazon, it is a necessary evil.
Anon
I’m not in a rural area, but plenty of stores are at least 20 miles away (so a 40 mile round trip); many are 75+ miles away (150 mile round trip); and there is an Amazon distribution facility 10 miles away from me (so I don’t feel like stuff is being schlepped all that far to get from there to my door).
Anon
Yes, I live very close to a distribution centre and can get same day delivery a lot of the time.
Anon at 12:27
I’d also say that my neighbors are apparently the same so we’ve got one truck dumping whatever the daily Amazon load is for our area as opposed to all of us going to the store.
Anon
For me, it’s often about whether or not I would drive to buy the item and if not, why? It the answer is “because the nearest store that carries this is 75 miles away,” I don’t see the problem. If the answer is “because I don’t need it,” then I wouldn’t buy it.
Anon
Same, I don’t get the hate and I also don’t buy random clothes on there. Plus the discount at Whole Foods makes it a great deal.
Anon
Agreed. I guess I am not really tempted by impulse buys, so I don’t find that to be an issue at all.
Kate
Amazon’s massive negative environmental impact warrants all the hate…
Cat
eh, I disagree. If you’re tempted by little impulse buys I’m sure Prime is a great enabler but it does have a purpose. My last few purchases were windshield wipers, a giant canister of Gatorade powder (SO much less expensive than buying it liquid and nothing I’ve ever seen in a physical store!), a walking pad, and underbed storage containers that are better dimensions for my space than those available at nearby retailers.
Anon
I don’t have Prime, because I order so rarely it just makes sense to pay shipping fees on the occasions I can’t meet a shipping minimum, but agree A-zon has a purpose. I do the bulk of my shopping for household stuff at Target but A-zon does have a bigger selection and sometimes I need to order something from there.
anon
Honest question: if you haven’t seen it in stores, then how do you know it’s a real product manufactured by Gatorade? I’ve seen food products that I know haven’t been manfuctured in years for sale by third party sellers, so I’m curious how people evaluate the risk of buying food that could be counterfeit.
ABanon
Personally I never buy food, cosmetics or medicine there for this reason. This decision was inspired by receiving some razor blades with a handwritten note that the packaging was discolored because it had been in some lady’s basement for years.
Cat
I was being a little dramatic in re-reading. I recall being able to buy it this way in the past, but can’t remember when I last saw it in a physical store.
In general I only buy food (energy bars usually) from A-n if it’s from a brand that does a storefront, not some seller that threw together 16 letters and numbers into a company name.
Anon
It would not be any better for the environment for you to drive around to several stores trying to find your item than it is for you to just order from Amazon, who is undoubtedly making several deliveries in your neighborhood the day they’re delivering it to you, so that is a the kind of grouped errand everyone says is preferable. People just hate Amazon, largely because it’s popular to do so. I support you buying your Gatorade from there.
ABanon
I wouldn’t trust even the storefront. Supposedly the razors I bought came directly from Amazon and not even there’re marketplace & they came with a handwritten note that they’d been stored in a person’s basement (as the reason the package was damaged). Additionally, Amazon will warehouse the products for their sellers, but they mix the “same” products together in storage, so you still may get fakes from this process also (or items not directly from your specified vendor) when the item is pulled for shipping.
Anonymous
yikes
Better off to try Costco. Yes they ship. At least you know it’s not old or counterfeit.I work for a major hair care company and the amount of high end shampoo and conditioner sold on amazon that is counterfeit is staggering.
Anon
You disagree with OP’s opinions about what works for her? Nowhere in her comment does she say other people need to do or feel the same. Your defensiveness is telling.
Anonymous
“Amazon’s massive negative environmental impact warrants all the hate…”
Yeah, that’s a total neutral comment. LOL.
Anon
The OP didn’t say that….
Anonymous
OP here. Not judging anyone else for using Amazon at all. I can see in rural areas especially it can be a godsend. Just wasn’t working for this suburban absentminded spender.
Anon
You’re not looking very hard if you can’t find that at the store. I have one in my pantry from the local Fred Meyer.
Cat
glad it’s easy for you to find (seriously!) but it’s not at any of 3 ShopRites, 2 Giants, 2 Acmes, 4 Targets, or 2 Walmarts that I’ve shopped at in the last year or so.
Anon
This is inspiring. I am also trying to not buy something on Amazon if I can buy it from a local store.
Anonymous
but are you just going to another big box store like walmart, home depot, target, etc? that’s what gives me pause about the whole anti-amazon thing.
Anon
I’m not the person you’re responding to. My preference is roughly: locally owned store, small chain, large chain located in my city, manufacturer’s website, Amazon.
Although my preference isn’t the big box stores, my reasoning is that if I do shop there, a person in my own community has employment because of my dollars and typically shipping by road is more efficient for the climate than things like next day shipping involving airplanes.
I understand people who don’t agree with this framing or who have competing needs in their lives. I’m lucky to have the time and income to make these kinds of choices.
Dress
The Amazon warehouse worker and delivery drivers are employees in your community
Anon
From what I understand, the labor practices are terrible. I don’t quite understand why so many people are invested in trying to convince some of us to use Amazon when we have specific reasons we are not?
Anon
Target generally treats their employees better. It’s also better environmentally because I can do a curbside pickup and don’t need to have everything shipped. No big box store is perfect but for me Target is the clear winner if I have a choice better them.
Anon
I am not sure every consumer driving to the store for curbside pickup is better than receiving delivery at their homes via shipping.
And everything that’s at Target was shipped to them. They didn’t manufacture it there at your local store.
Anon
It’s true that if everyone drove to the store for each individual item, then that’s no better. But it is better from a fossil fuel standpoint for you to drive to the store than for an airplane to fly a rush package. It is “best” to reduce consumption and consolidate buying and errands!
Anon
I’m not normally making a special trip to Target, I’m mostly stopping there when I’m already in the general vicinity. I imagine others do the same. I realize things aren’t manufactured locally, but having everything shipped to one central point vs individual homes is much better for the environment.
Anon
Consolidating errands is what Amazon is doing when they drive their electric van down the road and deliver to you and your neighbors. You hopping in your car for everything is not preferable to any of this.
Anon
You do know that the driver retrieves the packages from a warehouse that many of the items were flown to? Target receives its items from a truck that drove there. It is less impactful on the environment for Target’s truck to drive than it is for items to fly. It just is. No worries if that’s not the thing you’re most concerned about, but it’s incorrect to say that consumers driving to a store pollutes more or uses more fossil fuels than Amazon!
Anon
I need a source for your claim that Target does not fly anything in and that’s all Amazon does. Every retailer does what works for their stock needs.
Anon
I feel this. I am very much an overthinker and not an impulse buyer, and Amazon still prods me to overspend. If I can’t choose between two things, I’ll get them both because they are cheap and easy.
I do have a little rule for myself that I don’t buy anything immediately, even if I “need” it. I put it in the cart and then revisit it in a day or two, and often at that point will send a lot of things to the “save for later” list.
anonshmanon
thanks for sharing!
Dress
This is a really important and valuable discussion, thank you for raising it! It sounds like deleting Amazon has served you and helped disincentivize some behavior you wanted to stop, which is awesome.
Like some other posters, I find a ton of value in Amazon. Mostly, the ability to “click click” on my phone to buy something helps me not have to remember to do it later. E.g., my daughter needs new soccer socks or more underwear. In 15 seconds, it’s taken care of, and she’ll have what she needs. When it comes to essentials like that, I see no difference in purchasing from Amazon versus another local big-box store like a Target or Walmart. Amazon employs tons of people in the community just as those stores do.
Where I do try to thoughtfully “buy local” is from mom ‘n’ pop shops. For example, there’s a tiny toy store in our city, and I love that a local toy store still exists, so I realized I need to patronize it, and we bought a birthday gift for my child’s friend there. The game we bought cost $1.50 more than it would on Amazon, plus the time and gas to drive over, but it was also a fun experience to go there with my child.
Dress
Forgot to add, Amazon is also incredibly valuable for sending gifts to relatives. In no world would I buy something at a physical store, package it up, and mail it via USPS. Not to mention the cost of shipping would likely exceed the cost of the item in many cases. But with Amazon, I just pick my relative’s address as the delivery address, add a gift note, and off it goes. For grandparents and nieces/nephews living thousands of miles away, it’s a wonderful way to stay connected.
Anon
not always, but often the prices on Amazon for the same item are higher than at Target. Once I was purchasing Scotch Guard and it was 4x the price at Amazon for the exact same item. and so much extra packaging to mail one item.
anon
Great point about the packaging. I ordered a box of 12 protein bars last month and they came in a huge box with dry ice!! If I’d realized they’d have so much packaging, I would not have ordered.
Anonymous
I’m also not on Team Amazon. We have a list of other retailers we head to when we need something.
Anon
Same here!
Anonymous
Wooh! We need to get away from instant dopamine at the expense of the planet. I’m so proud of you!
Anon
I keep my Amazon prime account because it makes donating easy. I love going in at the beginning of September and wiping out a few wishlists for teachers near and far. I would never bother going to my local WalMart and stocking up on school supplies and trying to distribute them in any way, but I can sit at my computer and make a few different classrooms happier places to be.
Anonymous
I am trying to use Amazon less because I don’t like their price manipulation/bullying tactics. But instead of deleting it, I just try to make sure I am using it for things I can’t easily get elsewhere, including from the manufacturer/brand website, or in instances when I really need something immediately and can’t quickly obtain it locally (e.g., a printer cartridge I can have delivered overnight to arrive before stores even open). I find it useful for shopping and seeing what options are out there, especially for weird small household items, but I often leave the site and order directly. I can see that the number of orders in 2023 and 2024 are far fewer than in years past.
Anon
I deleted mine a few months ago, too. I get the appeal, it’s literally taking chores off of the to-do list and minimizing travel. But I was thoughtlessly clicking, buying stuff I didn’t need, and spending too much money. I’ve been fine not having it.
Anon
I’m not on the Amazon hate bandwagon. It serves a purpose in my life.
Don’t get me started on how crappy my local CVS is, though!
Anonymous
I have a teen who is a size that is virtually impossible to shop for in stores. When she needed a homecoming dress, there were literally NO STORES in my VERY MAJOR METROPOLITAN AREA that carried something she could try on. Instead, I ordered five dresses from Amazon; they came in days; she was able to find something that looks great; and no one had to cry in a dressing room. I absolutely hear the environmental and fast fashion concerns – but at that moment, all I could think was that I was so grateful for Amazon and the ability to find clothes that fit my daughter.
Anonymous
You’re just outsourcing misery to some abused garment workers.
Anon
Seriously go away. Who do you think manufactures the clothing featured on here every day? Amazon doesn’t have a monopoly on garment workers.
Anonymous
I don’t purchase anything from sweat shops :) good try though
Anon
Isn’t crying in a dressing room before a HS dance a teenage rite of passage?
Anon
Why are you all being assholes to a mom of a teen who doesn’t fit into standard sizes? You proud of yourself?
Anonymous
[deleted by mgmt]
Anon
She didn’t say her child was overweight… the kid might be very petite or very tall.
Anon
Yeah, yikes. I don’t even like or use Amazon! Not sure why cruelty is necessary or even preferred….
Park City, Utah
Does Park City, Utah still get snow in March? Thinking about going first week in March with my husband and 2 boys (middle school age). We don’t ski so if anyone has ideas for what to do, would love to hear them. Do you think that tubing at Woodward Park would be fun? I also saw a link to a sleigh ride and dinner through Snowed Inn. If we are only there for a week, do you think it would be worth it to book a beginner ski lesson for a couple of days for the kids – any recommendations for where to do that? Thanks in advance for any ideas!
Anon
Yes, but there’s no way I would spend the money for Park City in winter if you don’t ski. There really isn’t very much to do besides skiing.
Anon
Why would you go to Park City if you don’t ski?
OP
Ok good point – any ideas for where to go for fun winter type activities? I have posted before about wanting to take a trip for my kids to see snow for the first time. I looked into Big Sky but my husband is nervous about driving in the mountains and we couldn’t find an Airbnb that we liked. Wanted a fun house with a hot tub and ideally a game room/pool table/ping pong table since we will probably spend more time at the house than some families would. The only reason Park City came to mind is that we have a friend that goes there a lot. I like the idea of doing something like tubing which the kids could easily enjoy. Maybe something like snow shoes or easy hiking? We are not that athletic.
Anon
Where do you live? I wouldn’t fly across the country if the goal is just seeing snow/experiencing winter, you can do that in lots of places.
Anon
Like Quebec!
OP
We live in Louisiana – thank you for all of the input from everyone! I did consider up north but it would be a big disappointment to go somewhere like Vermont and not see snow. Canada sounds daunting to me – I guess because we are not big travelers and haven’t gone out of the country for a trip yet.
Anon
Lol OP, I don’t know if I would count Canada as “international” travelling – you’ll need a passport but culturally it’s very much the same as the US in most places.
Anon
I think Denver and a nearby mountain town is your best bet. I’m from New England and you definitely can’t count on snow there in early March. I’m not sure about Quebec but I think it’s iffy there too. The Rocky mountains are your best bet for snow, but if skiing isn’t a priority it makes sense to go somewhere less expensive than Park City.
Cat
I would absolutely book ski lessons because what else would you do in Park City for a week without them?
Anon
we are going in March for spring break. DH and I did the sleigh ride and dinner many years ago and it was fun. Tubing is also fun. I also liked the tour of the Olympic Facility. This is an expensive trip if you and/or your kids don’t like to ski. If your kids want to learn to ski, then that is a different story. Otherwise, I wouldn’t spend a week in the winter in park city if no one is skiing
OP
Appreciate all these replies! We are limited to traveling first week in March. Any other ideas for where to go to see snow and do some fun things? I should have mentioned that Europe is out of the question for this trip – we don’t travel much at all and it seems like too big of a hurdle to plan for. We usually go to Florida for trips and have never been west of Texas.
Cat
so your problem here is that the places with reliable snow in March tend to be ski towns. You could still go to Park City but spend like 3 full days there instead of a week if you’re not interested in skiing.
I was going to recommend Winter Park (about 1.5-2 hrs from DEN) but it does involve mountain driving to get there. Advantage is a lot of non-downhill stuff, including tubing, snowshoeing, cross-country skiing, and good Airbnb availability at reasonable prices compared to the bigger name-brand ski towns.
OP
Oh thank you – will look into this!
Anon
+1 and you could probably get a car service to take you to the mountain town and back. I would also spend some time in Denver depending on your kids’ interests; there are a lot of fun museums, outdoorsy stuff and some great restaurants.
Don’t go to Aspen or one of the posh ski towns. I took my kid there last year (during fall foliage season, not ski season) and I regretted not just going to a closer, cheaper town.
Cat
The first stretch of the drive is I-70 then the mountain pass is US 40, so while it is mountain driving (hilly and a set of switchbacks as you descend from the Berthoud pass), it’s well-maintained major and highly trafficked roads the whole way.
Anon
Also OP, you might look into whether there’s some sort of shuttle service from the Denver airport, if you’re worried about winter driving in the mountains.
OP
Does Denver get snow in March??
Cat
OP, Denver itself may or may not have snow, but once you get into the mountains, it’s still reliable. Our last visit in March, Denver had no snow on the ground at all but the Winter Park area had just gotten a foot+.
Anecdata
All the mountain towns in Colorado will have snow/great skiing in March; Denver is a couple thousand feet lower and often has snowstorms in March, but the accumulation doesn’t stick around more than a few days (in fact Denver’s biggest snowstorms are usually in March – it’s colder in January but much much drier)
Anonymous
New Hampshire or Vermont are good places for snow that time of year with more to do than just ski. I would look at Stowe or Burlington, VT or Conway, Lincoln, or Bethlehem NH. The Rangeley Lakes region in Maine would be another option.
Cat
Not a guarantee of snow in March based on my anecdata (two visits – one lovely and snowy, one an early thaw followed by a freeze, making everything muddy brown ice.
anon
I live in VT and we do not consistently have snow in March anymore, especially in Burlington, which in on Lake Champlain. There is very little to do in Stowe if you are not skiing. If you want to come east, and you are not very athletic, maybe consider Quebec City? I think they will still have snow to see, you can ice skate, there are multiple nordic centers outside the City if you want to try that. You can also do some city stuff.
Anon
No, Quebec City is definitely not guaranteed to have snow then.
Anon
I was going to suggest Banff or Whistler but in March it might be warm or it might be blizzarding, it’s hard to say.
Anon
do your kids want to try skiing? do you want to try skiing? how old are your kids? you could probably go for like 4 or 5 nights and have enough to do between park city and salt lake but idk that you need to go for a whole week. there is also ice skating, alpine slide, sledding, snowshoeing, etc.
OP
My husband and I don’t want to try it but we could probably convince my kids to try lessons. I could see them going for the first one and not wanting to go back though. They are 8 and 10.
Anonymous
Yes but I wouldn’t go there if you don’t ski unless you are planning to learn how.
Anon
Maybe Durango / Pagosa Springs? Fly into Durango thru Denver. There’s A LOT of snow in March up at the resorts, but both downs are a lot lower than the ski peaks. You could dog sled, snow tube, snowshoe, try a ski lesson at purgatory or Wolf Creek, but also there’s hot springs in both locations!
anon
One more for you OP – I was in the CA Sierra in early March of this year and there was a TON of snow (like more than 10 feet of it). It was also not that cold, sunny, gorgeous. I don’t know if that’s atypical, but maybe do more further research and consider flying into Reno and driving up to the Taos area?
Anonymous
+1,I would suggest flying into Reno and staying at Mammoth. There is lots to do near Mammoth for kids. They have areas for kids to play in the snow, snowshoe trails, etc. The drive from Reno to Mammoth is much calmer than the drive to a Colorado or Utah resort from the adjacent airport.
Anon.
My son was 8 when we took him skiing and he picked it up right away and loved it. We went to a small resort in update NY. My husband’s coworker gave us their old ski clothes but you can get them used online. I tried the bunny slope and then quit. I enjoyed the outdoor hottub looking at the mountains while they skiied. I say find the used gear for the kids and have at it!
Also, aren’t there snowmobile and sled opportunies in ski towns?
Anon
+1 I think if you want to start skiing, it’s best to start on a local hill. Most of the US has some kind of skiing within driving distance even if it’s not “fancy” skiing. I guess maybe not in Louisiana though.
Anonymous
I went to Park City while pregnant on a group trip of people skiing. I would absolutely not go to Park City if I wasn’t skiing. What you are describing (without the beginner lessons) is like 2 days of activity. You are going to deal with ski crowds and ski prices for none of the fun.
Anon
Something like this might be a little more casual and easy for you: Muskegon Luge Adventure Sports Park. Lots of family events, ice skating, hiking trails, luging. Lots of fun. However, march might not have a ton of snow. Would require driving, but no mountains. Can also go up towards Traverse City or UP for more reliable snow in March.
Anon
My high schooler is such a sweet summer child. She honestly has no clue why I wouldn’t let her drive 2 hours with a junior (girl also, generally responsible) to come back from an activity on a weekend both parents are out of town and either stay by herself or stay over with the junior or she and the junior drive back in the wee hours of the morning. I wish I could buy her a clue without traumatizing her and am grateful she has had such a G-rated life up until now but unsupervised teens, novice drivers, and nighttime are the trifecta of when you need in-town parents for rescue and bailouts.
Anon
Just want to say I find this very relatable.
Anonymous
Helicopter parent much? You need to let her go. She’ll be in college if 2 years if she’s a junior in high school now. You need to prepare her for the real world. That’s part of a parent’s job.
Anon
I think OP’s kid is younger (not yet driving) and was potentially getting a ride with a junior who has a car.
I don’t think it’s helicoptery to not let teens ride with other teens, especially late at night. It’s statistically very risky. My very hands-off parents who let me stay home alone beginning in early elementary school and fly by myself in middle school didn’t allow me to ride with other teens while I was in high school. I was provided an old car and was allowed to drive myself anywhere I wanted, so I had independence from them, but they didn’t think it was safe for me to be riding with other teens, and statistically they were right.
Anonymous
Agreed, night driving can have snow/rain storms/fog and deer at minimum. More commercial truck traffic, etc. Coming from the Plains, pretty much all the kids living in farm country put their car into a ditch at some point.
Anon
Yeah, this strikes me as extremely overprotective. You gotta let go at some point and give your kids the tools to live independently.
Anon
Counterpoint: being 18 versus 16 is huge. You can book a hotel room if your car breaks down. You can rent a UHaul as an unorthodox alternative to a car rental.
The right way to do this is to have the parents at least be in town so they can scoop up the teens if necessary. That gives them some freedom and a nice backstop if everything hits the fan.
Anon
Sorry but I was doing all that and more at 16.
Anon
At least in America in 2024, 16 year olds cannot usually book hotel rooms.
anon
You have to be 16.5 to get a license in Massachusetts and I THINK under 18 you can’t drive a non-family members at all. Certainly some bend that rule, but I know that many do not, and the consequences are significant.
I drove people around al the time as a kid, but I don’t think that’s a great measuring stick (or legal one) these days.
Anon
Yeah is this even legal? In my state you have to be 17 to drive a non-family member who’s under the age of 21.
Anon
I like the phrase ‘talk me through your plan’ and use it often with my teen/tween. It gives us (and them) the opportunity to talk through what they want to do and figure out what is/isn’t safe and discuss things that are hard no’s (and why).
Anonymous
+1
Anonymous
Disagree. Different poster who is REALLY annoyed by helicopter parenting and mommies and daddies running to the high school and even to college all the time arguing that their child cannot dare be wrong or be punished for anything they do or simply just rescuing the child because they are so miserable about cafeteria food at college or don’t know where to buy storage containers for their dorm room. Yet in this instance I think OP is being appropriately cautious.
Far far too many parents with high incomes like this board are quick to hand their kids cars the minute they pass their drivers test and act like just because they have a license, they are full on adults and driving and life experience don’t matter because THEIR kid has great judgment – even though they have no way of testing that judgment. 2 hours presumably on a highway is a LOT for a 16 year old either by herself or with a similarly inexperienced friend. At that stage they don’t always realize things like they are driving in an aggressive pack of cars and should move to the right and let the speeders go by. Instead they try to keep up. They don’t realize that maybe they are getting tired or that the friend chatting is a distraction or whatever.
OP you need to explain these things to her but you don’t need to make it a litany on crime or whatever. Just that highway driving that far requires some experience and she can’t do that alone or with a friend and especially not when there are no parents around just in case anything goes wrong.
Anon
+1 this is not helicoptering. Is the new driver even legally allowed to take passengers right now? All the factors together make this a risky situation, even without curveballs thrown in. Car crashes are the leading cause of death for children and young adults.
I hate all the “real world” talk. Yes the job of parents is to prepare kids to launch, but that doesn’t mean we throw them to the wolves whenever they ask. We slowly let out the leash, as we judge them capable. The daughter could have three years before college, she doesn’t need to take overnight highway trips unsupervised right now.
anon
Yup. I don’t find the OP’s concerns unreasonable.
Anon
yes, +1 — and in fact, most true Helicopters I know would permit this because saying “no” would make the kid angry.
I see the helicopter parents in my area not wanting to disappoint their kids, so they aren’t saying “No” where they should (buying fancy tech at really young ages with no parental controls), but saying “yes” to handling everything at school from overdue assignments to punishment from teachers.
Anon
Yup.
Anon
I hadn’t thought of it this way, but I agree. Helicoptering is preventing negative emotions and potential challenges that would lead a child to growth.
Saying no to legit risky situations that a child is not yet prepared to navigate is called good parenting.
Anon
My college roommate wound up in the hospital with pins in her arm and a collapsed lung after driving herself back to school after Christmas break our freshman year. It was a 6 hour drive in snowy/icy conditions on major highways that she had never driven solo before. To this day we both marvel that her parents were totally blase about it and she is SO thankful the accident wasn’t worse. She said she had nightmares about the car flipping across lanes/rolling for years and didn’t drive again for 2 years after that. All 18 year olds think they’re great drivers, parents should know better and set reasonable guardrails.
Anonymous
See this is the kind of situation parents SHOULD worry about yet even today I see parents helicopter over dumb high school issues and then hand the kid a car for college purposes and shrug. I legit know parents who have said – well I’m not driving her back and forth from college 3 times a semester, she can drive. When college was like 2 hours away and this was a two high income parent in flexible corporate jobs situation — not the type of thing where anyone was losing their job for taking a half day off to pick up their kid at college. And then predictably it did result in kids driving in December when there had been ice storms. Kids who already didn’t have enough highway experience contending with weather they weren’t used to because they were from warmer climates. And the parents – shrug – she was fine.
Anon
Counterpoint… why is kid coming home 3X/semester in college? They need to be doing college kid things, not hanging out with mom and dad.
Anon
Agree, this isn’t helicoptering. Most parents should be more worried about car safety and less worried about emotional drama and schoolwork.
To the person who said coming home 3 times in one semester is weird, most colleges have fall break, Thanksgiving break and winter break and it’s normal to leave campus for those extended breaks. It doesn’t mean kids aren’t getting the full college experience.
Anonymous
IDK where you went to school but 3 times in the fall is normal especially for kids going to school 2 hours away so you aren’t paying for flights – fall break, thanksgiving, Dec. In the spring there’s spring break and often in the first year kids don’t travel with friends yet. And usually in the entire academic year there’s 1-2 other weekends thrown in if the kid just wants to get off campus esp as they adjust to dorms. YMMV but seeing your parents 5 times in 10 months when just three months ago you lived with them FT is no sooo overboard that you’ll never make a friend at college.
Anon
At what age, exactly then, should an adult child get experience driving?
Anon
Regarding the ice storm situation:
Many schools don’t allow you to stay past the end of finals (you get a day to leave and then the dorms are shut down). So staying until the roads are clear might not be an option.
With that in the forecast, I would look at other options.
Could we (myself and DH) drive down in one car, pick her up, and one of us drives her car back in the lousy weather?
Could she leave a bit earlier and shift her finals forward?
Ask the school if they will let students stay over a bit longer to wait out the storm?
Anon
You get highway experience for years in nice weather, or maybe unexpected bad conditions locally when you can be home in 5 minutes. Maybe your parent is in the passenger seat. Then once you feel confident with that you can take your car to college. You don’t start by driving two hours away on your own in December.
Car crashes are the leading cause of death in kids and young adults. Why wring our hands over myriad less probable situations and then give a brand new driver free range?
Anon
I’ve never heard of being kicked out over winter break, only at the end of the academic year — is that a recent thing? When I went to college, you stayed in the same dorm room both semesters and you were allowed to sleep there for the whole winter break if you wanted, though of course dining halls, etc. close so it can be inconvenient as an 18 year old.
Anonymous
The friend is a junior. OP didn’t say her kid is a junior. The post made me think her kid was younger.
Anon
Sounds like that to me too, and if that’s the case then I wouldn’t even be okay with them staying alone overnight w/o adult supervision.
Anon
Okay? As a parent it’s your job to explain why it’s poor planning so she can learn. I don’t know why this would traumatize her. “You two don’t know much about cars. That means when you’re doing a long drive on an unfamiliar route you should have someone available to help in the event of car trouble. Especially at night when auto shops are closed. You’re in a vulnerable position if your car isn’t working and shouldn’t trust strangers who offer help.”
Anon
Right!! You don’t have to tell all the details of horrific crimes.
I also want to say that my parents were quite overprotective and would have allowed me to stay with my friend because we were both very responsible and they had no worries we would do anything other than watch a movie and go to bed. YMMV depending on your kid and her friends, of course!
Anon.
The thing is, as women, we are always vulnerable if our car breaks down.
Anon
Never driving without a male escort isn’t realistic. OP should teach her daughter how to travel safely instead of mocking the daughter’s naivete…which is a result of her own failure to provide common sense advice.
Anon
“I wish I could buy her a clue without traumatizing her”
You know that an explanation isn’t going to be traumatic, right? “The drivers who are out at midnight aren’t the same drivers who are out at 8 pm. They are often drunk, tired, or reckless. If you get into an accident, you are SOL. You aren’t able to get an hotel room – you’re too young – and the tow truck drivers won’t return you home. Even if you don’t get into an accident, what happens if you get a flat tire? Sure you have AAA, but that means you’re on the side of the road (with drunk and tired drivers who might smash into your car, hazards or no) waiting for an hour for them to show up. If anything goes wrong on this trip, you have no slack or buffer.”
Anon
My parents were very overprotective and would have let me do this with a responsible friend at that age – and we didn’t have smartphones with Google maps or credit cards either. Just something to think about.
Anon
The upside of having had teenage au pairs for years when my kids were younger are that we have a LOT of examples of how bad things can happen to good well meaning kids and we talk about them now as my kids get older. Like ‘I know you are a good driver but remember the two car accidents au pair 1/4 had when driving in an unfamiliar city with more agressive drivers than she was used to’ or ‘remember when we had to pick up au pair 5 from big city when her friends got drunk/other parents flaked/phones died/etc.’
I am also generally astonished that all of my friends and I are alive and ok after the feral gen X teenager years of driving around in janky cars, no cell phones, with parents who were clueluess and/or out of town and had to be reminded that it was 10pm and no, they didn’t know where we were.
Anonymous
I mean yes we’re all glad to be ok as well as our friends but there are people who aren’t – you don’t hear from them or even think about them much anymore because unless they were super close to you, you’ve moved on. Feels like back then word would often come by word of mouth that something tragic happened to someone as they are their best friend were out on a highway at 3 am a few months after HS graduation or a few months into freshman year of college.
IDK I know it’s often about parental convenience about not driving kids all over town and driving them back and forth to college, kids’ insistence to not ride the big yellow bus, and in my area a general show of wealth that yes you can get a kid a car – but I highly disagree with handing cars to people whose brains and judgment are no where close to fully developed.
Anon.
A leading adolescent psychologist suggests that we allow teens to vote at 16 and drive at 18. They are fully capable of making researched and reasoned decisions about candidates but when they are in a stressful situation like driving, not so much.
Anonymous
I can see that because researching candidates is a lot like studying. At 16 they’re used to that. Plus there isn’t time pressure, you can start learning about candidates months in advance. And what the other guy is doing in terms of voting has no bearing on how you vote. Driving – you could be super careful but you need to respond in a split second to what the other guy is doing and in some cases even anticipate that someone isn’t paying attention or whatever and try to get away. All while – let’s be real these days – half your attention is on your phone.
anon
My kid will be eligible for a learner’s permit in a few months, and I just have to say: I know my kid, and he is NOWHERE NEAR ready for that level of responsibility. He is less mature than other kids his age, he already struggles with executive functioning because of ADHD, and the idea of putting him behind the wheel scares the daylights out of me. I just don’t think he has the sound judgment or cognitive abilities to not endanger himself or others. So, we’ll be holding off, which is absolutely not a popular move in my area.
For the record, I learned to drive at 14, as did everyone else where I grew up. I can assure you there were plenty of car accidents among my peer group in the 90s.
Anonymous
An ADHD male isn’t really what this discussion is about, but yeah probably shouldn’t be driving.
anon
I was responding more generally to concerns about teen drivers?
Anon
I lost a sister and a brother in separate car accidents in the late 70’s and early 80’s, so no, not everyone fared well.
Anon
I’m so sorry for you and your family.
Anonymous
This is so weird. Why not tell her what you are worried about?
Anonymous
I hear OP’s concern about not wanting to traumatize your kid. I feel like our mother’s generation was always going on about how a young woman will be r*ped and murdered the moment she steps outside. There’s got to be a balance between making girls afraid of the world and instilling the importance of safety. Some of the comments here have really good scripts.
Anonymous
I agree that the suggestions from some of the comments here are great. Also – I have a teen boy with a learner’s permit who will be driving on his own soon, and who is a generally responsible, smart kid, and I have spent his childhood quite committed to free-range parenting, but I wouldn’t like this for him either. My version of free-range doesn’t extend to parents totally out of town for a lot of the practical reasons people mentioned, and I wouldn’t even want to drive 2 hours at midnight myself.
Anonymous
I feel like if I told you what I was up to at 15 you would be clutching your pearls but I promise it did not traumatize me. My parents control issues on the other hand….
Anon
Lol same.
Alice
Is your daughter also a junior? I was a very flexible parent, my younger son did a XC driving road trip with 3 friends right after he graduated from high school at the age of 17, but this would be a solid no from me. Too many kids in our town have been in terrible car accidents as new drivers, judgement is not yet developed, and with no parents are around, just no. Tell her next year when she is a senior, she and her friend have more driving experience, and there will be many opportunities her senior year. Your option is to hire a driver…but I bet they won’t like that.
And putting a car in a ditch is a lot different than an accident at high speed at an intersection.
anon
Are you borrowing trouble? Is this school related? Will the school let the junior drive another person home with them? Has the junior had their license long enough that they can drive at night with a passenger? Seems like there are a lot of other reasons why this plan won’t work.
Anon
Most comfortable ear plugs, bonus points if you can sleep in them? My husband has a man cold which apparently necessitates scream sneezing and coughing/throat clearing so loud it can be heard behind my closed office door with a white noise machine on.
My sanity and patience are hanging on by a thred….
Cb
I am really averse to earplugs, and Loops really work for me. I can’t wander round the house in them, but for stationary activities – sleeping in a noisy hotel or drowning out noise on the train, they work really well.
Anonymous
I’m a side sleeper and Loops are the only earplugs I’ve ever been able to sleep in.
Anon
My best ear plugs is one of us sleeping in another room…. I feel your pain! (Sorry, I don’t have any suggestions but wanted to commiserate!)
anon
Same here for when we are sick. As the sick person it’s great because you can be miserable without worrying about waking up your spouse, and as the spouse, you can sleep through the night.
Anon
The foam kind you get from the drugstore. I’ve tried all the other fancy ones from Insta and they’re worse at blocking sound and not any more comfortable.
Anon
I sleep with the basic orange foam ones from the drugstore and they block out almost every noise, they’re great.
Anon
Mac’s silicone ear plugs, you can shape them to your ears, tear them in half for a better fit, , etc. Foam earplugs just fall out of my ears. They’re readily available in drugstores, supermarkets, etc. at least around here.
Anon
+1
Anon
Hearos ultimate softness
Anon
I like the Quiet Please! foam earplugs.
Anonymous
How do you find a reputable dog breeder? I’m allergic to dogs but my husband wants a dog in the worst way, so we’re going to explore “hypoallergenic” options (understanding no dog is 100% hypoallergenic), so unfortunately a rescue isn’t an option. Terriers and water dogs are a no go, as a child I had to go to the ER after playing with a lab because I stopped breathing. But I grew up with a poodle and was fine with her. My mom got a westy-poodle mix (a westy is a terrier, thanks mom) when I was in high school; I was ok with the dog when I was living at home, but after I moved away I was allergic to it. So, I think a poodle mix puppy is what we want to consider. I’m also allergic to cats but I’ve had my cat since he was a kitten and I’m only a little allergic to him. I swell up impressively if he licks or scratches me but my day to day is fine.
I poked around online but I’m not having a lot of luck. We visited a breeder on a farm but the puppies were very dirty and kept outside. Another breeder suggested we meet up at a gas station parking lot, which seems pretty sketch to me. I feel like I’m doing this wrong. Suggestions? We’re in a Philly suburb if anyone has any specific recommendations. Thanks, all!
Anon
Don’t count out a rescue – there are breed-specific rescues! And it’s not impossible to find a purebred at a shelter or similar – lots of people buy purebred dogs and then need to dump them for one reason or another.
Anon
Came here to say breed specific rescue. That’s where my two English bulldogs came from, and they are wonderful!
There are poodle and doodle rescues!!
Anon
Even just a regular rescue will have hypoallergenic dogs, we got ours at one and lots of them will advertise the dogs as such and usually comment on them. I’m not a “adopt don’t shop” person by any means but I wouldn’t write off rescues for this particular issue at all.
Anon
Yes! +1,000
Anon
Do you know what breed you want? If so, each breed has an official AKC “club” that will likely have a list of reputable breeders. That might be a good place to start.
Anon
I don’t know anything about dogs in that area, but you could ask friends where they got their own dogs. I think the AKC also has recommended breeders and you could start there. I would not meet up in a gas station parking lot, either.
Pep
Just get the poodle! They come in sizes (toy, miniature, standard) and colors (Apricot, Black, Blue, Brown, Cream, Red, Silver, Silver Beige, White, Cafe Au Lait, and Gray) to meet any need. You don’t have to get them clipped into the fussy show clips!
You can visit the site for your local AKC poodle club and they can direct you to breed-specific rescues as well as breeders.
It’s no guarantee that a poodle mix will not aggravate dog allergies.
OP
DH does not want a poodle. He’s not really sold on a poodle mix but he’s willing to consider it. He seems to think the fluffy curly coat is too frou-frou. Which… most of the mixes have. This is the nature of compromise, right? My plan is to meet the pups and see if I react to them, and if I don’t, then see if DH thinks it matches whatever picture he has in his head about himself having a dog.
Of Counsel
Show him a poodle in a puppy cut rather than a show cut. They do not need to be frou-frou.
That said, I posted quite a long response regarding poodles that is currently in moderation. That method applies to any dog.
Anon
Good luck! There are some other hypoallergenic breeds like bichons.
I will admit feeling some kind of way that you have an allergy that sent you to the hospital but there’s being such a big emphasis put on whether the dog looks frou frou (feminine?) when that’s the type of dog that has the best chance at working with your allergy!
Definitely definitely a good idea to test some time with the puppy first. Is the nature of your allergy such that the allergens could build and cause a bigger reaction? Like if you don’t have much reaction during the first visit, could it get worse after bringing the puppy home? Reputable breeders will want to take their puppies back if something like that happens (vs you finding a new home for the dog), so do keep that in mind while you’re vetting the breeders!
Also doodles are very very popular right now, so that leads to more backyard type breeders, so it might be a little harder to find an ethical one, and the AKC won’t be any help bc doodles aren’t recognized breeds. It’s possible that groomer or similar in your area could have recommendations.
OP
Oh believe me I feel some kinda way about it too. There have been lots of discussions about this. He is of the opinion that the dog distribution system delivers a dog to you, because that’s what happened throughout his rural childhood. So he’s having to let go of the expectation that a bedraggled but lovable mutt will show up on our doorstep – probably on a cold rainy night – with big puppy eyes and be his new BFF. The idea of getting a very clean fluffy designer dog doesn’t really mesh with the story in his head about how a dog joins a family.
dogg
Replying to the OP.
If that is his dream, then I’d present him with a poodle and tell him that you found it at your doorstep. :) In all seriousness, I also feel some kinda way about him putting his idealized image of a dog over your health. I have seen allergy shots make pet ownership possible for some allergy sufferers, but that’s completely your choice to make.
Anon
I feel like a rescue dog is the answer to his dreams. Here’s a dog who really needs a home. And you can start by fostering the dog before committing to it. Lots of rescues need more fosters.
Anon
The compromise is he can get a dog when his wife is allergic, so he gets a poodle.
Anon
Why get a mix if you think an actual poodle works? My daughter has allergies to dogs and my unscientific finding with friends’ dogs is that even with the poodle mixes, she has allergies of varying degrees. I don’t think she’s ever been close to a straight poodle, just the poodle hybrids.
Consider asking your allergist or internist if you could exacerbate health issues by bringing an allergen into your home. Or if it might help you build tolerance instead?
Anon
I always thought terriers were hypoallergenic. Sounds like you had a different experience growing up so probably want to avoid to be safe, but I am also allergic to dogs and had a terrier growing up with no issues.
I’m sure this is is obvious, but if you’re looking at a poodle mix, make sure whatever the cross is is also hypoallergenic. I’ve spent too much time with friends who have doodle mixes that I am sadly allergic to.
Agree with the recommendation for American Kennel Club. Personally, I would want to be 100% certain that the dog is purebred so would not go the rescue route, even if you can get purebreds. It would be so sad if you ended up being allergic to it.
Nesprin
Look up the AKC poodle breed registry for breeders. A good breeder should be booked for months out, expect to have an interview process + a significant fee. Also worth looking at local breed specific rescues.
Not what you asked, but go do allergy shots now- you could be desensitized to and cats dogs in 6mos-1 yr. They’re a lot of work but changed my life.
Of Counsel
For poodles, I would start with the Poodle Club of America. Among other things they have excellent resources for what to look for in terms of health screenings. That is CRITICALLY important for poodles, both to ensure you get a healthy dog and to avoid supporting unscrupulous breeders.
Then reach out to the affiliates clubs in your area (list here: https://poodleclubofamerica.org/wp-content/uploads/2024-affiliate-clubs-roster-september-9-2024.pdf) . They will be able to assist with both breed specific referrals and rescues if you want to go that route. They can also tell you if there are any specialties or other breed specific events in your area that you can attend to meet potential breeders and their dogs. I highly recommend meeting at least the dam (the sire will often live elsewhere) to assess temperament. Pay attention to how the breeders treats their dogs – are they part of the family or do they live in a kennel? Is the breeder attending the shows or have they placed their dogs with professional handlers? Check the coefficient of inbreeding at the AKC website before you even think about meeting puppies. I look for something no higher than 5% but some people would argue up to 10% is OK if all of the other health factors check out.
Final note: I would avoid doodles. They are (often) great dogs and is a great way to bring the COI down, but there is no guarantee of a “poodle” coat so if allergies are the major issue then you probably should not take the risk.
Here is my pitch for standards if you have room for a dog that big. Not that I am prejudiced or anything!
Anon
For what you’re after, a reputable breeder in all likelihood won’t sell to you. Reputable breeders don’t crank out mutts for the pet market. A reputable breeder wouldn’t sell a puppy to a family where someone’s dog allergies are ER worthy.
I’m the biggest dog lover there is, but your health needs to take precedence over having a dog. There is no such thing as a hypoallergenic dog.
Of Counsel
I am going to have to disagree with this post. My standard poodle was from an excellent breeder and of nine puppies, at least three were placed in households where allergies were a major concern. She requires that any returned puppy come back to her so she can re-home – although whether she will give the fee back depends on whether she can re-sell the dog.
One more note – if you can find a breeder who does temperament testing, I highly recommend attending if you can. It was dramatic how different nine puppies from the same litter turned out to be and it was very helpful in finding the right puppy for my household.
Anon
Reputable dog breeders are usually show breeders. Mixed breed dogs are usually going to be from puppy mills or back yard breeders. I agree with the recommendation to find the breed club. They will have a list of members and usually also have a rescue organization. It can be challenging, and you may have to wait, but so worth it to have a healthy dog and not support those who mistreat animals. I definitely would not meet up in a parking lot – probably selling dogs from puppy mills.
Anon
Yes, there’s no such thing as “reputable” breeders of doodles or whatever because they’re not regulated.
Anon
Ding ding ding
smurf
there are no reputable doodle breeders (or – close to zero). Reputable breeders are doing health screenings so dogs don’t pass on negative health traits, etc. and usually show dogs too. Only purebreds.
Buying a designer mutt from a ‘backyard breeder’ just funds irresponsible dog owners & dogs who are often mistreated, overbred, etc. Please don’t contribute to the problem even more.
**Since you are in PA – that is basically HQ for puppy mills. Stay far away from Amish breeders. They horribly abuse dogs and have a separate ‘show’ area so you think you’re buying a healthy pup that grew up running around on the farm. This is not the case at all.
If you’re committed to the doodle thing, the good? news is that because they’re so popular and overbred, they’re actually pretty easy to find via rescue or shelter now. I also think you should just get a poodle and a puppy cut, but options exist.
Anonymous
Look up Australian Labradoodle. They are a multigenerational poodle mix – with Labrador retriever, cocker spaniel, etc. I know a couple of people who have one because of allergies. There is a breed specific Facebook group which can be helpful to learn about this dog. The multigenerational aspect is helpful to increase consistency re coat, size, temperament. With respect to finding a reputable breeder, I reached out to the vet office I planned to use and met with one of the vets. I had narrowed it down to two breeders and he had lots of patients from both and a dog of his own from one.
My Australian labradoodle is 5 and one of the best decisions I have made. He brings so much joy to so many people. Good luck!
Anonymous
Has anyone seen &juliet and can comment on how it would (or wouldn’t) work for an 8 year old girl who LOVES the music but has adhd and can sometimes struggle to follow the plot of plays?
I am going to take her big sister and would hate for her to miss out but I also don’t want to bring her to something so far over her head she’s bored. FWIW she loved Aladdin on Broadway.
Anon
I would definitely take her if she loves the music! I just took my 6.5 year old and I think the plot kind of went over her head but she had a great time. You could also read about the plot and some of the history in advance but honestly it’s not necessary to follow it closely to enjoy the show.
Anon
It’s 2 1/2 hours and has an intermission. That’s a good length for a person who doesn’t have much experience attending live performances. Especially in the age of screens, attending live performances something that takes practice even as an audience member. Worst case scenario, she’s bored for a little while. Best and most likely is she has a lot of fun.
Anonymous
&juliet is very fun and high energy. Even though a lot of stuff will be well over her head, the music numbers are fun, and if she loves the music that will probably be enough.
It has quite a few meta elements, and there will be sections where all the adults laugh and she will be puzzled. If she knows a little bit about Romeo and Juliet, and a little bit about Shakespeare, she’ll be fine. If she’s literal minded still, she might struggle with Shakespeare being a character on stage.
Anonymous
She is the most literal person I have ever met. We sometimes (lovingly) call her Amelia (Bedelia).
Anonymous
Maybe prepare her a little bit, then, that this is a story about a story, and a story within a story.
Sort of like getting to know what happened after the book was finished, and that some of the characters get to have new chapters. And the storyteller and his wife is part of the new story and helping the story along?
Anon NYC
If she loves fun pop music like Brittany Spears of the Backstreet Boys, she’ll love it!
Anonymous
Her current fave spotify channel is “boy bands” which is what made me think she might like coming along. :)
Anonymous
As a boomer I know some of the music and meta references went over my head, but had so much fun watching the performers seemingly have so much fun. It was contagious. I’d so go!
Anon
Speaking of Amazon, the diaper bank of North Carolina has an Amazon wishlist. I’ll link in the response. They also provide adult incontinence products and period products for women of all ages. It’s a great way to get some needed supplies into the region.
Anon
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/31JIZVO6SC05X/ref=hz_ls_biz_ex
Anon
Thank you for the link! Items sent.
anon
This is a great organization. I have donated to them and volunteered with them in the past and they really work hard to meet the needs of the community and reach women where they are.
Jane
Brisbane for work end of next month. My first time in the country. Please give me all your recs. Traveling alone and a bit nervous about driving so hoping to use transit/Uber the whole time.
Anonymous
What country are you coming from? No way I would drive on the opposite side of the road from what I was used to in a major city like Brisbane.
Anon
You can definitely use transit/Uber. I wouldn’t bother with a car if you’re not used to driving on the wrong side of the road and car. Brisbane is a cute city and the weather shouldn’t be too awful this time of year. I would recommend Felons Brewing Company for food and/or beer. Hop on the CityCat ferries for a cheap tour from the river.
Mpls
As a pedestrian in a “wrong-side of the road” country – just remember you need to switch which way you look first to cross the road :)
Anon
Ugh I used the t word.
You can definitely use public trportion/Uber. I wouldn’t bother with a car if you’re not used to driving on the wrong side of the road and car, especially if youre staying in the city center. Brisbane is a cute city and the weather shouldn’t be too awful this time of year. I would recommend Felons Brewing Company for food and/or beer. Hop on the CityCat ferries for a cheap tour from the river.
Anon
People will probably tell you that driving on the left is no big deal but just here to say I’ve really struggled with it and I think you’re right to avoid it if you’re wary.
Anon
I think driving on the other side of the car is the most difficult part! I drove in Brisbane this summer and normally I’m a very good driver, but I hated it and I made a lot of mistakes that could have ended up badly. Anyway, there’s no need to drive. You can get a train from the airport into town and bus or Uber. Google gives good bus directions.
Jane
Great, thanks everyone won’t be driving! Is there enough to do to stay two extra days after my 3 day meeting or better to head off to Sydney or some other place? Coming from Canada.
Anon
I think there’s enough to do, but also I think Sydney is great and worth checking out if you’re already in Australia.
Anonymous
Have you taken long flights like this before? I was completely wrecked the day I landed in NZ from east coast USA, and I wasn’t much better the next day. Give yourself as much of a buffer on both ends as your schedule allows. Oddly enough, coming back wasn’t as bad as going there.
With such a long flight, I would absolutely tack on as much time as possible to enjoy the country. Driving on the wrong side is very individual. DH was super uncomfortable but I had no problem, and I hate driving. It’s perhaps the one upside of being dyslexic and not knowing my right from my left.
Anonymous
I need surgery and was referred to a doctor at a major teaching hospital. He specializes in my surgery and has written a text book on it that is still in use today. I met him and really liked him. When I got home I googled him and found glowing reviews and also that he is 85 years old. WWYD? Am I being agist to be concerned about his age? Thanks.
Anonymous
Wait so when you met him he didn’t come across 85 but you found out when you googled? How old did he seem when you met him? Did he seem mentally and physically with it in all ways? That’s what I’d focus on first. If he was moving as normal in all ways, responding to your questions as normal and not losing his train of thought or cutting you off impatiently because he was tired and wanted the appointment done.
How many hours is this surgery? My one concern is if it’s a long surgery and an academic hospital of course residents will perform some of it but is he in there the entire time? You can ask this and should. Because what you don’t want is him quote supervising residents and fellows while he’s really stepping out to sit down and take breaks.
Anonymous
Thank you for this. He seemed 100% fine and “with it”. I guessed he was about 65 but I am 29 so not always good with discerning between older ages. He did look old.
AnoNL
Anecdata: I had a 75-79yo doctor lead my myomectomy surgery. I had zero concerns as his mind was sharp and I saw him run a marathon. He is also active in research, teaching, and mentoring young doctors. I hope I will have as much mental clarity and physical strength when I am his age.
Having said that – everybody is different.
Anonymous
I’d try to look up his recent online review. People age differently and sometime experience does actually accumulate. If he didn’t seem that aged in person, I’d go with your initial impression, but what harm would it be to get a second opinion or another referral?
Kate
Find a different doctor unless the surgery will take less than 30 minutes.
Anon
Is he going to actually conduct the surgery? Or his resident? Maybe find someone who was trained by him?
Anon
What kind of surgery is it? I think it matters to some degree.
Anonymous
I’d go forward with the surgery, but agree with the others to google the most recent reviews and ask about residents/assistants during the surgery.
Anon
my father who just turned 75 years old and is a still practicing physician would never let an 85 year old operate on himself or on me. I’m surprised he is still operating as most surgeons stop younger bc insurance rates are so high. what specialty is this?
Anonymous
Colon surgury.
Anon
I work at an academic medical center and have a family member who is a physician (non-surgical) and there is NO WAY I would let an 85 year old perform surgery on me. Even if he wrote the textbook on the procedure! Things change so quickly in medicine and I think you want someone who is experienced enough to have seen and handled complications and young enough to be up to date on new technologies/treatments/etc. It would NOT be reassuring to me that a resident would be conducting some of the procedure! Also, colon surgery is no joke.
anon
Can you indicate what general type of surgery it is? How huge/complex?
I would never have an 85 year old do my brain surgery or heart surgery.
But chances are high that he does almost none of the surgery. He will probably stand to the side and guide one of the young residents or fellow trainees while they do the surgery.
You can actually ask him who will be doing the surgery.
Anonymous
My husband is a surgeon, trained under and deeply respects a number of much-older surgeons, but he wouldn’t let an 85-year old surgeon operate on me.
Anon
Unpopular opinion: when it’s a matter of your own health, don’t worry about being ageist. Your job is to find the best person who can do the job.
Also, ageism as discrimination is about, eg, treating brilliant and energetic 50 year olds like they aren’t competent any longer. The effects of age on physical abilities and mental cognition in your 80s are real. (Yes there are outliers, because there are 8 billion people in the world.)
Anon at 12:27
I have a general premise that if I have some medical thing to be figured out I want the old doctor who has seen everything, and if it is a surgical matter I want someone with a nice balance of recently trained in the most up to date methods but with some experience.
Anon
I had my gallbladder removed by a similar-sounding surgeon, though he was not at a teaching hospital. He actually retired about 3 months after my surgery!
I had a great experience and felt like I was in good hands with someone who had seen and dealt with it all. I also knew several of his patients who gave him good reviews. It actually didn’t occur to me to question his age! Just a contrary opinion from someone who went through this. I know a gallbladder is short, routine surgery, and I’m not sure exactly what you’re having done, which might factor in.
Anon.
I live in cental Florida and am sick over the hurricane damage all over the southeastern US. It will take many years to recover. Even minimal damage to our home in past storms and dealing with the hosptial after with a sick parent was traumatizing. I can’t imagine where all the displaced people are going to go now.
Anon
I’m in shock over the sheer magnitude of the damage. I don’t think I’ve seen anything like this in my lifetime.
anon
It is pretty shocking.
Can I ask OP have you thought about moving out of areas of the country like yours that are becoming difficult to insure, high risk for climate reasons?
Anon
Sorry but this is a weird take as the risk was flooding for most of this storm’s damage. Moving out of areas of the country with water when so much of the damage is from not just ocean flooding but rivers…just an unhelpful and uninformed question.
Anon
Yeah the areas that flooded were not at all close to the coast. You can have flooding anywhere you have a river or lake so… literally anywhere. I grew up in the Midwest and we had crazy floods in the early 90s that caused more than $10 billion in damage and closed the schools for a week. A lot of people died too.
Anon
I saw a news article that said western North Carolina was considered one of the better places to move to from a climate perspective, yet here we are. There is no moving away from climate change.
Asking someone to leave where they live is a very complicated thing to do. I’m in the Bay Area because I’m from here. We have earthquakes, and apparently now we have fires. My family are here. I’m staying.
Anon
Who would have thought Asheville NC would suffer such catastrophic storm damage as to be cut off? I think this is a wake up call that no matter where you live you should be as prepared as you can be for a major natural disaster. I’m not going full pepper but my mid-SEUS rural self is about to up her game in this regard.
Anon
Mountain areas are incredibly vulnerable to being cut off. There’s a reason that places like Asheville and the rest of Appalachia are beautiful and idyllic- they’re hard to get to and historically weren’t developed because it’s difficult to build housing and roads on steep terrain. Landslides are a problem in any kind of weather event, which easily cuts off the few roads.
Some areas are definitely more vulnerable than others, but I agree with being prepared no matter where you live. Pretty much every area in the country is affected by some kind of extreme weather that’s getting worse because of climate change.
Anon.
OP here. No, I have no plans of leaving my life long state as I won’t take another bar exam. We used to live closer to the coast and I am happy to be where we are in Florida. I lived through a scary tornado in western PA.
Seventh Sister
An old friend of mine put me in touch with the college-age daughter of old friend’s friend. College-age daughter is interested in going into my field and we set up a coffee meeting at said college. (Old friend lives out of town, college-age daughter is going to college in my city.)
College-age daughter totally flaked on coffee meeting. After waiting for 45 minutes, she texted that she was stuck in traffic. Having once been a college student, I gave her some grace but after a few more chapters of my book, I decided to text her that we’d have to reschedule. Total radio silence.
Thoughtless kid, OR she looked at my LinkedIn and decided I wasn’t worth meeting? I’m not a celebrity in my field but I’m not Attorney Lionel Hutz or something.
Anonymous
A lot of kids are flakes and don’t have executive functioning yet. They’re going to get some hard knocks in their first job and grow out of it (hopefully). This isn’t about you. She’ll probably blow up other opportunities too.
I am not a lawyer but had a student at my old college ask for an informational interview. I made sure to point out the time zone I was available in writing, and she messed it up twice :)
Anon
I’d put the onus on her for meeting again. She blew you off. If she wants to talk, make it a phone call. Otherwise, just move on.
Anonymous
I would not take it personally, but I also would not go out of my way to reschedule. She would need to reach out and then come to me at a time that was extremely convenient for me,
anon
+1
Cat
+1, the fact that she did not bother to text until she was already 45?! minutes late, when tbh the entire coffee chat should have been ending, is the main issue here
Anonymous
My parents did this to me when I was younger. I had no interest but they pushed me. I would chalk it up to the kid not being interested and move on.
Anonymous
That’s also a good point. I even heard a rumor years ago of scientist parents doing late-night labwork for a graduate student child, who was pushed into that career. I’m sure that’s going to turn out well for them all.
Dress
+1 the student did not want to do this meeting
Anon
I vote thoughtless kid. Unfortunately I find that more and more common with college kids/interns. The amount of confirmations/reconfirmations we need to do with this age group is slightly nuts to me.
Anon
Forget about her. She’s not worth investing any time or care.
Anon
I’d probably circle back to old friend with an FYI since they asked OP to do this. Keep it neutral, but don’t offer to reschedule.
Anon
Please don’t do this. If the parent asks, you can tell them the truth, but otherwise just let the circumstances be. “Telling” on this kid just makes this the parents’ issue and infantilizes the kid, when it’s better for everyone to treat it like you were blown off for a work thing and walk away.
Anonymous
Yes, but OP’s friend is also vouching for this student. I’d want to know if I was going out of my way to make introductions for a friend’s kid and they were no-showing!
Seventh Sister
I don’t know the parent – parent is a friend of my old friend. I plan to tell old friend.
Anon
I disagree. Giving an informational interview to a college kid is intended to help them figure out how the working world works. No-showing an interview ain’t it, and finding out that it was unacceptable now is part of the same problem.
This is a kid who hasn’t earned the stripes of adulthood, clearly, and I wouldn’t worry about infantilizing her.
Anon
College kids are huuuuge flakes these days.
I lead a Girl Scout troop of early elementary school girls. We were connected to a Girl Scout club at the local college by a troop parent who’s a professor. The college girls have absolutely horrified me with how flakey they are. They have promised to show up and lead badgework 5 times and have shown up ONCE, unprepared to lead anything. Most of the excuses were valid in a vacuum (minor car accident, multiple exams that week), but at some point it’s hard to take them seriously because there’s always an excuse. Some of the times they canceled they didn’t text us until after the meeting was supposed to have begun. I feel very “get off my lawn” but omg I’m only 39 and we did not act like this when we were in college!! I shudder to think about having to write one of these girls a letter of recommendation which I fully expect them to ask me for at some point.
Anonymous
Wanted to jump in here to say they are not all like this! I use a lot of college aged sitters and recruit volunteers from local colleges for events and they are excellent communicators. I also staff many elementary school events with high schoolers and they often impress me with their ability to look me in the eye, make smart in-the-moment decisions, and act responsibly and politely.
Seventh Sister
I’ve had good experiences too!
Anon
I have a current college kid and one who graduated a year ago. They would neeeever do this, I’d skin them alive! (expression, not literal)
Anonymous
Devil’s advocate: when she texted that she was late, how did you respond? Did you say “oh okay, I have couple chapters left in my book, do you think you could be here by X?” Or did you just let it sit silently? I communicate with a lot of college kids (mostly as babysitters and student volunteers) and they were likely waiting for a response from you. I would have expected a “running late” text around 5-10 minutes late (or ideally in advance), not 45, though.
I’d follow up by letting whomever it was that connected you (old friend?) know, “Hey, college-age kid and I had a meeting on XX but she never showed” and just let it be.
Seventh Sister
I responded that I was happy reading my book, but didn’t say, “oh, do you think you could get here in X minutes?” I assumed if she was texting that she was en route or her arrival was imminent.
ABanon
I wouldn’t reach out to the contact unless that person asks. The kid is actually an adult who’s responsible for her own actions after the introduction.
Seventh Sister
If I was the contact, I would want to know. Not like in a tattling way, but in a, “you wasted my friend’s time and I’m not sticking my neck out for you again.”
Anon
She’s rude. I wouldn’t meet with her again.
Anon
I would make absolutely zero effort to reschedule. That’s very rude.
Anonymous
she doesn’t want to meet.Let it go.
anon
Kids who do things like this should learn the consequences of their actions.
She blew you off. Likely was not stuck in traffic at all. Then ghosted you.
You don’t even want to be on the past radar of someone like this.
Let your friend know about the kid’s behavior and how rude that was to waste your time, and wish her luck. No meetings in the future.
She’s already had 3 strikes.
Anon
College prof. here, for what it’s worth. This is a thoughtless kid. Let her deal with it — if she wants to reschedule, have her call you. If she doesn’t reach out, forget about it.
Anon
Replying to my own response to add that this isn’t true of all college-aged kids — many are incredible, responsible, and mature! But not in this particular case.
smurf
thoughtless kid – I’d guess either parent pushing them to do it when they never wanted to OR social anxiety after running so late decided to just ghost. Definitely rude but likely nothing to do with you really. I don’t think it’s ‘kids these days’, I think many many people make some rough blunders when trying to figure out how to enter the adult working world.