ByKat Hours Updated
Comments 203 Comments

Suit of the Week: Rachel Zoe

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For busy working women, the suit is often the easiest outfit to throw on in the morning. In general, this feature is not about interview suits for women, which should be as classic and basic as you get — instead, this feature is about the slightly different suit that is fashionable, yet professional. Ok: lots to discuss with this suit. The pros: gorgeous color. Love the tonal piping and patch hip pockets, and I love the curve to the jacket. But… how do we feel about the silhouette? Longer jacket, shorter pants… I wish she had made a matching pencil skirt for those of us who just like the blazer. The styling at Bergdorf Goodman makes it look almost ringmaster-ish, though, and brings up the unfortunate point that this color of winey red is hard to pair with other colors. (Although for my $.02, I'd love to see it with a pale blue blouse or sweater, but that's me.) The jacket (Kenny Tail Suit Jacket) is $525, and the pants (Anne Cropped Pants) are $295.
(L-6) P.S. Albert Nipon, please make this suit in a color other than hot pink. Tks.

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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

203 Comments

  1. No. No no no no no. Sorry Kat – this looks like Tilda Swinton’s version of business formal.

    1. Except Tilda’s version of this suit would fit her better than it fits on the model. I can’t unsee circus ringmaster either.

      1. Agree – look at the 3rd and 4th photos – did nobody in the editing process notice that she looks concave in an area women typically prefer to look convex because the jacket fits so poorly? Things like this irritate me more than they should….

        1. It’s the third and fourth photos on the ShopBop link – because I know you all want to look.

    2. I couldn’t place where I knew this suit from and then your comment reminded me. Love this color, just not for a suit with cropped pants. That said, I wouldn’t hesitate if it were a pencil skirt or a sheath dress in this color.

      1. Not to pile on my own comment, but I showed this to a coworker and her reaction was “huh, reminds me of that coat Johnny Depp wore in Willy Wonka.” After googling I have to say I agree with her.

        1. I can’t unsee that now, thanks for that ;) Especially his hideous bob in that movie, ugh.

    3. I like the color of this suit and that’s it. And I’m not sure I’d want a SUIT in this color…so, its kind of a miss for me.

      Also, Tilda Swinton’s idea of business formal is what she wore to the Golden Globes. And she looked faaabulous.

      1. Plus, she dressed every celebrity as a hobo for five years, which I still hate her for.

      2. I once wasted an entire hour of my life that I will never get back watching The Rachel Zoe Project.

        Similar to my experience watching Jersey Shore once, only with Jersey Shore I only lasted 5 minutes.

      3. Completely agree. So annoying.

        I honestly *love* the color of this suit, and would definitely wear a suit this color, but only if the jacket and the pants each had a completely different shape.

  2. As to the Albert Nipon suit you linked in the P.S., do we think there is no way for a 30-year-old, big-law lawyer to get away with wearing that on a non-court, non-client day? I like it. I love color. Suits stifle my personality.

    1. Maybe not as a full suit (a little TOO Elle for me), but I could definitely see either piece with a more neutral color on the other half (gray? Navy? B/W tweed? I’d have to see in person to see if it would be friendly with other fabrics).

      1. Elle would platz for the Nipon suit. But I do think it would look good with gray…perhaps “the gray” skirt from Nordies that was on sale yesterday for example. :-)

    2. Are you in a more colorful area of the country? I can totally see this where I am in FL. People of all ages in my office wear colorful suits and no one blinks an eye.

    3. What part of the country are you in? I can see this being fine in the south/southwest, but I think it’d get a few eyebrow raises in NY or Boston.

      1. Oh – and FWIW – I tried this suit on in winter white a year or two ago (paired with a red belt) and it was gorgeous and fit beautifully. Too bad I couldn’t justify the cost of a white suit knowing what a klutz I am.

    4. I’m also 30, also in BigLaw, and also love it, but probably can’t get away with it. Except on Halloween — if you wore it, you would be required to quote Legally Blonde all day long. Elle Woods ruined the pink suit for the rest of us.

      I think you could do it in the South, though. In Pittsburgh I’d stand out like… well, like Elle Woods stood out at the Haaaaarvaaard “costume” party.

    5. I love the Albert Nipon suit. I wish wish wish it came in, say, indigo or moss green.

    6. I actually really like it! The lawyer in the office next to mine was wearing a bright turquoise skirt with a black turtleneck today and it looked very nice. I bet this skirt would look good in that situation too. I’m less sure of when I’d wear the jacket, but maybe with white or navy in the spring?

  3. For those doing IBR with 10 year forgiveness, what kind of records are you keeping? Obviously the payment receipt, but I know I have to show I was employed during that time. Just your w-2s? Or something more?

    1. I’d call the lender and ask to be sure, but you will probably also need proof of your employer’s non-profit status (unless you’re obviously in gov’t).

    2. Just W-2s for now, but I’m thinking about saving meeting minutes to show I was actively employed.

    3. Gosh, I thought all we had to save was our record of becoming employed, that we were employed every year (w-2s) and the names of our supervisors/Department heads.

      But I just started as of…whenever I get approved! Just started in gov’t last month.

      1. Do you mind linking to where you got that info? That is what I’m looking for is what the requirements would be

        1. This is really the final word:
          http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/PSF.jsp#Q9

          This goes to a pdf: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/pdf/E8-24922.pdf

          The end is where you want to look, page 63756. But it basically says you have to apply on a form provided by the Secretary, but doesn’t describe the info.

          Also, look at page 63245, section 685.219

          Finally, page 63241 seems to have the final discussion and say in the matter.

          (Yes, I went through the document backward, I thought I remembered better information at the end but I was wrong!)

          I also have used IBRinfo.org although it’s a little basic and geared both for entering and repaying students.

          And finally, because I used Google to find all this and not at all to be mean but because I’ve ALWAYS wanted to post it!

          http://lmgtfy.com/

        3. Alright, moderation is taking too long (I have to get back to work!) go so studentaid (dot) ed (dot) gov/PORTALSWebApp /students /english /PSF.jsp#Q9

          Lets see if that works…

    4. The just issued new forms you can submit. I plan on doing it soon. Don’t have links but equal justice works has the info.

  4. I love that Albert Nipon one…I would definitely buy it if it were in a more court-friendly color.

  5. I’M SO EXCITED! I just bought the Clarisonic Mia after that last discussion! I’ve been wanting it forever, and then someone linked to a $25 off coupon, plus they have free expedited shipping, and I got 5% back from e b a t e s . The total was $94, and then with the cash back, it’ll be under $90. Overall, a great deal!!!!

    I’ve been trying to be better about washing my face at night; maybe this’ll do the trick.

    1. Other people that had the mia, did you notice any difference if you changed the brush head from sensitive to normal? i’ve been using it for 3 weeks now with the sensitive brush and have seen no difference. It makes my face smoother but same pimples and clogged blackhead pores on my nose. I’m going to get a facial this weekend and hope that kind of jumpstarts the process, but I feel like it was a total waste

      1. I got better results when I switched to the regular, and MUCH better when I switched to the deep cleaning one. Definitely switch brush heads before you give up.

        1. Agreed. . I was so annoyed that the Mia didn’t work for me like it did for others; deep cleaning head has finally helped.

    2. I think you started the thread a few weeks ago about your laziness when it comes to washing your face at night?

      At any rate, the comments on that thread have inspired me to remove my make up, wash my face with proper cleanser and my Clarisonic Mia, apply nice face cream, AND floss AND put on hand cream and foot cream for the last 2 nights before I went to bed. These are all thing I know make a difference in my life but that I feel like add at least 30 minutes each to my bedtime routine. Turns out it’s only like 5 extra minutes. Go me! (And thanks to the Commentariat.)

      1. If it helps at all, I keep my hand/foot cream, chap stick, and nail file in my nightstand. That way I just do it as I’m reading or watching tv before I go to sleep. For whatever reason, that’s much easier for me to remember to do than doing it in my bathroom after I brush my teeth.

      2. Congrats! I was feeling pretty good about myself for doing it two nights in a row and then I failed last night after a bottle of wine and take out. Oops.

      3. @AnonInfinity – love “Commentariat”. That’s a word that definitely needs to be used more.

    3. This put me over the edge, too. I’m pretty impressed that it’s going to arrive tomorrow!

      After our discussion earlier this week about needing to wash after using the make-up remover wipes, I’ve been doing so (felt like an idiot for not realizing this), and can definitely report that my face looks and feels better in the morning. What would I do without you ladies?

      1. Say what? I don’t wash after using make-up remover wipes. I kind of thought that was the point of the wipes.

        1. Yeah, that’s what I thought, too. But everyone else seemed to disagree, so I figured that I’d try a post-wipe wash for a few days… and it does seem better. Possibly just in my mind, though.

          1. Might be too late to respond to this — I also thought that’s what the wipes were for, but the thread inspired me to wash my face after using the wipes for the last few days. My face definitely feels smoother in the morning. I really think that a pimple that I’ve had on my jawline for a couple of MONTHS is also decreasing in size now.

  6. anyone have any experience with custom suiting in general, or the tom james company specifically? i met with a rep this morning. she was referred to me by a partner at another biglaw firm, who always looks fabulous, but is a man. i was impressed with the quality of the fabrics even in the two lower ranges – i ended up ordering a suit (jacket, pants and skirt) and one button-down shirt to start. i need to rebuild my wardrobe, both because i’ve recently lost a good amount of weight and because i’m at the point where the suits i bought as a baby associate five years ago are starting to look pretty meh.

    i’d be interested in hearing about people’s experiences. at $899 for pants & jacket alone, this will be pricier than my normal suits (generally j.crew or theory-on-sale), but i’m justifying the cost both because of the convenience of having someone come to me, and because it will fit so much better without having to add on the cost of alterations.

    1. Not a good experience with Tom James – at least their Dallas location. Ordered a dress, jacket, and skirt. I’m usually a size 14, with a 36DD chest. They looked horrible. I got the second-tier fabric in a very lightly-tonally-patterned black, and the fabric ended up so thin that it looked like I bought the suit for $99 from a mail order catalog like Chadwicks. The jacket fit but wasn’t proportional to my bust (so the bust darts were actually 2 inches below my bust). The skirt was iffy. The dress was horrible. When I asked my salesperson about it, he sheepishly admitted that they do a better job with men’s suits and that dresses aren’t their strong suit at all. So then why did you sell me a suit dress for over $1300?!?!

      Okay, vent over. Hopefully, you are thin, small-busted, and the right demographic for Tom James. Sadly, I wasn’t and I’m still fighting with them over the charges.

      1. this sounds like a nightmare. crossing my fingers that the philly reps/manufacturers are strong, as i’m definitely not small busted.

        1. I have a busty friend who is happy with a jacket she got from Tom James, so you might be fine.

      2. Similar bad experience, although at least my rep refunded all of my money that I shelled out for a suit (pants and jacket). After 4-5 fittings, the fit was never right overall and looked way too boxy; the darts in the jacket were never in the right place; and the whole look was just absolutely unflattering. I told the rep that it seemed like the company was simply trying to fit a man’s suit on a woman’s body, and the rep (a man) pretty much admitted that the company just can’t seem to get women’s styling down. I am a size 6-8; 5’4″ and don’t know if I am in the demographic or not, but I will never use Tom James again!!

    2. Long time reader but first time poster. I just had to say something about Tom James before you go and spend all of your money on clothes that are not that nice and sales associates who are like debt collectors. There are several people at my BigLaw firm who actually have their secretaries screen their calls (they call daily!). Good luck, but once they have your number, even if you decide not to purchase, they will still call you.

      1. This. I’m in the middle of fighting with them over charges, and the sales reps still call my office and show up at the receptionist wanting to show me the “latest” fabrics. Seriously? Their reps are worse than the financial planners who call All. The. Time.

  8. No. If I’m able to be this informal, then I don’t want to be in a suit. If I have to be in a suit, then it’s a situation for which this one would be inappropriate.

      3. I am going to be the voice of dissent here. I love this suit & love “wacky” suits in general. I frequently have meetings where a jacket is nice to have on, by no means a requirement, but I don’t want to feel all buttoned up in an interview suit all day & I might want to transition to going out to dinner after work w/ friends and again, don’t want to look like a frumpy lawyer. I quite like these options.

        1. Agreed. I work at a small firm where suits are not required. I like suits that are less formal for day-to-day and client meetings. It’s a suit, and it says that I’m a lawyer in this office, but the look isn’t as buttoned up and conservative as what I’d wear to court.

    3. I can imagine wearing this at a professional offsite/conference in a place like Scottsdale, AZ.
      And that’s about it.

      1. Ha, I have a pale lavender bracelet sleeved skirt suit from Ann Taylor that I bought on super sale specifically for conferences in Arizona/Vegas since my normal east coast dour work suits always look so out of place. I love it – but I joke that its my west coast suit all the time.

    4. I have a few less formal suits that I do not wear for trial but reserve for meetings. I don’t love this one though. I like the idea of cropped pants but they don’t look right on most people.

  9. Thanks to all who posted yesterday about the CA bar, my plans are still in infancy but just for elaboration, I’m qualified in England, so common law to common law jurisdiction isn’t too much of a stretch. I would rather take the NY bar, but I’m not eligible for it because I only have two years of law school instead of the required three (here two years is enough if you have non-law undergrad).

    My research has suggested that an alternative route would be to do California and then you would qualify for NY in a couple of years or could waive into e.g. DC.

    I think my biggest problem would be to convince work that this is a great idea, since I’d have to take a month off to study/do the exam and they wouldn’t be entirely wrong in thinking that this might lead to me leaving if I then got a job in the US (unlikely, I know).

    Anyway, thanks everyone and if someone has done the CA-NY route (I know there isn’t reciprocity as such, would still need to take NY bar I think), I’d love to hear from you!

    1. You would definitely still have to take the NY bar, though depending on your years of practice you may be able to skip one day (check NY rules). You can also waive into DC after passing CA. I went to an ABA accredited school so I didn’t have to take what they call the baby bar, but you’ll need to check to see if you have to take that too.

      Then be prepared to spend about $1k (+ the baby bar if necessary) to take it, as well as three days, but I’m sure you already know that. I’m trying to think if I know anyone who did CA->NY and I really can’t but if I do I’ll let you know!

    2. Another way to get around the NY bar eligibility issue is to do an LL.M. (thereby adding that extra year of law school that you need), although that’s a whole different discussion in terms of money + career usefulness. I did the same as you – 2 years of post-grad law school in England. I practiced in England for a while, and then went to the US to do an LL.M. A lot of my classmates were doing the LL.M. so that they could take the NY bar, but that is one very expensive way of going about it. I took the CA bar and passed at my first attempt, and all the other English-qualified lawyers I know have passed at their first try. You’ll be fine if you set your mind to it, give up your social life for a while in favor of stuying, and if you can get a month or so off before the exam. Bear in mind that a lot of people take the exam (and pass it) once they have started working (e.g. if they lateral over to CA from NY), and they usually only get the 4 weeks right before the exam off.

  10. The Albert Nipon suit can actually be found almost in duplicate in a light gray by Anne Klein. I like Albert Nipon suits and have the short sleeve version of this in black, so I was pleased when (maybe 5-6 months ago) I saw this same long sleeve suit in gray on the Neiman’s website. Flash forward a week or so after when I was in Macy’s and I saw literally the exact same design (and same gray color) in an Anne Klein suit. I feel I may have even seen the design two weeks ago when I was in Macy’s. I am not sure how or why the suits could be identical, but I wonder if the Albert Nipon company and Anne Klein are sourcing from the same random manufacturer in China or something.

    2. Yup. That suit is absolutely available at Macy’s in the same hot pink under the AK label, but at half the price. For those that like it, this is surely the way to go. And I own the short-sleeved version in black, too – under the AK label, purchased from Macy’s. Love it. Sadly, I can’t find the gray today.

      1. Maybe I’m being picky but the AK version has a rather cheap looking belt that I suspect would look even cheaper in person. Also, while it’s hard to tell online, I think the pink is not quite the same. I would wear one (maybe not as a suit but as a color) but not the other (assuming my computer does not deceive me).

        1. When I saw the gray AK version in person at Macy’s, I swear it was the same suit. It even had the same purple polyester scarf the AN version did and felt like similar quality to my existing AN one. It is possible that AK is just happening to make an exact knock off version of the ANs, but since this is about the third AK copy I have seen of an AN suit, I really feel the companies might be sourcing from the same manufacturer, or could AK somehow be affiliated with AN? Not sure, but I don’t think they are different.

          1. I’m not saying that I’d pay the extra money for a fabric belt – just that I think the patent belt with this suit doesn’t look cute.

    3. They’re the same company: As of December 2, 2003, Kasper ASL Ltd. was acquired by Jones Apparel Group Inc. Kasper A.S.L., Ltd. operates as a marketer and manufacturer of women’s suits and sportswear. The company’s brands include Albert Nipon, Anne Klein, Kasper, and Le Suit.

  11. I thought I’d share this. I’m having consecutive “drinks with friends” tonight. As in, I’m meeting one friend at around 5:15 and the next friend at 6:30. I’m trying to be better about socializing and making sure that I keep my spirits up during my job hunt so I’m extremely proud of myself. But for someone who has to struggle to be good at maintaining friendships, this is a big accomplishment for me.

    I’ll definitely have to sip my wine SLOWLY to avoid embarrassment during my second friend session.

    Anyway — thought some of you ladies might appreciate that. Also, I’ve definitely hit the mid-afternoon doldrums at work, so…yeah.

    1. That sounds like a lovely evening. When my schedule opens up, we should have drinks, too.

      1. You’ll NEVER guess where I’m going. Only you will, since its where the last Boston meet-up was. Maybe the hot waiter will be there again!

    2. Good for you!! I have been struggling with something similar, not friendships, exactly, but just getting out and doing stuff, instead of spending all of my time at home alone and feeling lame. I went to a lecture on Monday evening after work, about an issue that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with my day job, and I have felt slightly less pathetic all week. .. and now i’m making plans for this weekend and next Monday.

      1. Good work! I sometimes have the same problem :) I went to a random class on Sunday, met some new people and left feeling really good about myself. And definitely NOT lame!

    3. Two martinis and some awesome fondue later and I’m commenting on everything on Corporette. Someone tell me to go to bed!

    4. I’m impressed. Most of the time that I make plans, I end up being too exhausted to go. I’m trying to be more social, too, though!

  12. Going to SLC next week. Any recommendations on what to see and where to shop? I’m there for a conference, but will have 1 1/2 days off. TIA!

    1. Shopping? Um . . . online.

      But seriously, my top picks:

      Hatch Family Chocolates on 8th Ave (near downtown). I will blow off work and go with you.

      Skiing (7 resorts to chose from, 5 if you board). Again, I will blow off work and go with you.

      The Spiral Jetty, if you have the time and inclination for a road trip to see some great art before the Great Salt Lake submerges it again.

      The Kura Door is the bestest spa if you find yourself needing a massage or facial.

      There’s a Patagonia outlet (occasional scores, though desirable sizes go fast) and a Sundance outlet (sample sale jewelry!) in Sugarhood.

      Apartment 202 Boutique at 9th and 9th sells my jewelry. . . Just sayin’

      Tours of the HGTV Dream Home in Heber City (can’t vouch; haven’t been yet)?

      A dancer friend of mine teaches a bada$$ Hot Hula class if you find yourself needing a Polynesian-style Zumba-type workout fix.

      Feel free to email me gewgawsgimcracks [at] gmail [dot] com if you have any Qs

    2. Please go to the Red Iguana for me. I have been craving it for, like, a year. (The mole sauces are fantastic.)

    3. The Salt Lake City Airport! I recommend you miss your connecting flight there and then sit for two hours talking to the bass player from Crystal Gayle’s backup band.

      Or maybe that’s just what I do in SLC.

      I can also give you pointers about missing connecting flights in Chicago, Denver and Fort Worth.

        1. At O’Hare, spend time at the United terminal going back and forth in the ‘light art’ tunnel listening to Gershwin. (I may be outdated here – It has actually been over two years since I’ve been stuck at O’Hare.) Also, says here they just opened two new wine bars at O’Hare – problem solved!

          http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs035/1102463494613/archive/1109298217062.html

          If you’re stuck at Midway, pickings are more slim, but I did like the sandwich joint in the Southwest gates area. They offered hot pastrami! (I don’t know what I was thinking- I had the turkey)

          1. I LOVED flying United as a kid for the light tunnel alone. And may still enjoy it – though it has been about two years for me as well.

          2. Yay! I love the light tunnel!! Even though I was coming home on a red eye from Hawaii and we were walking to the wrong terminal…I STILL have fond memories of the light tunnel.

    4. Agree with everything Kanye said, especially re skiing/boarding and Hatch Family Chocolates.

      On top of that – temple square is one of the bigger tourist draws in town and worth checking out. The temple’s very castle like, and the grounds are pretty (although definitely best in December when the Christmas lights are out). If you go in the visitor’s centers there are models of the inside of the temple (as you can’t actually go inside it unless you’re a Mormon in good standing with the LDS church) and a very impressive statute of Christ. I think the Lion House Bakery on Temple Square is also worth stopping by, if you’re a carb fiend like myself. The rolls are amazing.

      There is the Gateway mall downtown, which has shops like Banana Republic, Ann Taylor, Old Navy, etc. There’s a new downtown mall that will have some higher end shops but it won’t open until mid-March. There’s also Fashion Place, which has a Nordies/Macys/Dillards and a brand new H&M. It’s technically in Murray, not SLC, but you can easily get there on Trax. Really, though, the shopping here’s pretty standard. If you’re from someplace that doesn’t have them and like bargain hunting, you might want to check out Ross… they’re like Marshalls or TJ Maxx (but better, IMHO) and usually have cute work dresses and tops. If you go up to Park City there is an outlet mall.

      The Mexican food here is pretty good. Red Iguana’s a winner. There’s also the Blue Iguana, which uses exactly the same recipes, is a little pricier, and has shorter waits on busy nights, but most people prefer Red.

      Finally, my favorite spot in SLC – Bruges Waffles & Frites on 3rd West and 3rd South. They have these amazing Belgian Waffles called Torpedos which are stuffed with delicious dark Belgian Chocolate and covered, upon request, with cream, fruit, and/or more chocolate. Bliss. (Did I already mention how I feel about carbs?)

    5. Sugarhood Patagonia and Sundance. Gateway Mall downtown is pretty, has the usual stores, but is worth seeing to see the Olympic fountain.

  13. This is almost certainly a stupid question, but is it at all possible to make a deal with student loans without being behind. As in, say I owe about 30K on one of the loans, never missed a payment or had any problems, and could, right now, pay something like 25K in one lump sum. Would there be any chance of getting them to accept that as payment in full?

    (I’m guessing not, but thought that I should at least ask. We sold our house (yay!!!) and decided to do a minimal down payment on the new one and use the rest of the saved up cash and equity towards paying off loans.)

    1. I think the answer here is yes. You can send a check of any amount and have them apply it to the principle, I believe.

      1. She wants to know if they will agree to let that 5k slide. Is it a federally backed loan? In that case def not since there is no incentive. They are getting their money since you cant declare bankruptcy so I think they would not do that.

        1. Oh! I misread. I thought she had $30k to begin and has paid down to $25k. Reading comprehension fail.

    2. Do you mean that you would like the lender to reduce the total principal owed if you pay a huge amount at once? I have no idea about this, but am curious to hear if anyone else has done this.

      1. Lyssa, you can definitely do this with credit cards. Not sure about student loans. I would call and ask – it can’t hurt. I think the answer might be no because you can discharge regular debt in bankruptcy, but not student loans; I think there are different considerations involved. That said, even if you pay off $25K now to principal, it will still significantly lower your debtload. If your student loans are at 5-8% and your mortgage is at 3-4%, I would say that is a sound financial decision.

        1. How do you do this with credit cards? You just call and ask? What about bank issued credit cards where they can see how much I have in my savings.

          1. I’ve never actually done this, but I have a friend who had some financial issues that did. She basically owed a lot of money and called up the credit card company and negotiated. I think she was able to pay something like 3/4 of what she owed and call it a day. I am not sure of specifics. I know that there are services that offer to do this for you but I feel like a lot of them might not be so legit. But I think if you have significant CC debt, it may be worth looking into how this is done. I’d start by calling the CC company and see what they say.

  14. I’m doubling down on questions – Hubby and I just bought a new house (as in, actually new) in a nice, planned development, and we’re moving in this weekend. We’re both pretty introverted, and in our last neighborhood, we didn’t really get to know our neighbors much. They were nice, and we did the whole “hi, how are you and how about this weather” thing, but never really became friends with any of them, and, in fact, pretty rarely saw most of them, even the ones right next door. I’d like to change that here, but I’m not really sure how to get started. We’ve done the whole “walking the dog and stopping to chat with people who comment” thing, but it never led to a real connection before, plus, it’s winter. I’d really like to actually make friends in our new neighborhood (and meet potential clients, too).

    Should we just go knock on people’s doors and say hi? Wait for people to see moving trucks and come say hi? What else?

    1. You’ve mentioned before that you and the hubby enjoy food and cooking – why not bribe your neighbors with food? Host a bbq or a buffet at home or something. I’ve always wanted to do something like this but I am the lazy.

    2. When we moved into our new neighborhood people actually brought us cakes. We thought we had moved to Pleasantville (which we have, in many ways). So that might actually happen. If it does, use it as an opportunity to invite them over for tea and actually follow through.

      Otherwise, summer is your friend, you’ll see a lot more of them. But I do think tea is kind of the catch all for neighborly togetherness, just invite them over for tea. (Oh and pick one neighbor with whom to exchange keys…just because its so important when you’re locked out and its cold!)

      1. I met one of my best friends because she moved into my apartment building in Providence and immediately started baking. She showed up at my door – I lived across the hall – with an individual heart-shaped chocolate cake. Southerners… they’re not like us. They’re better.

        1. Heh heh. My husband was actually somewhat frightened when our neighbors started showing up with food when we moved in. Love the south!

          1. But…I live in the North. People in my neighborhood are just friendly. When we went away on our honeymoon, our neighbor came by and volunteered his teenage daughters to come by and get our mail, without our asking.

            Seriously, they’re great.

    3. Yup, my parents did like a game night with neighbours while I was growing up, and BBQs in the summer.

      It was pretty easy to arrange in the beginning, since we had bought into a new subdivison.

      We have good relationships with all of them. It was a matter of my mom putting together a little flyer and putting it in the mailboxes of my neighbours a week or two in advance (she would usually delegate this task to me and my sister….though by this point, we knew all our neighbours).

      Our neighbours would reciprocate, etc. Also, at the end of every summer, we’d have a “Street Party”, and we’d all get together, the kids would play games, everyone would BBQ on their driveway, we’d have face painters, balloon makers, etc. In the winter, my dad would snowblow for some of my neighbours, etc, and there was always a helping hand when someone was planting a large tree, etc.

      It was really nice, and to this day, I’m still very close with one of my neighbours who I babysat for when I was 12 or so, they are one of the kindest and most generous families I know. Do it!

    4. Baked goods. Once you’ve lived there for a few weeks and gotten settled in, make cookies or brownies or something and use them as an excuse to introduce yourself. Everyone likes baked goods, and it’s a low key way to meet other people in the neighborhood. This is what my mother did with everyone who moved into our neighborhood growing up, and we had wonderful very close relationships with all of our neighbors.

    5. I’d wait until summer. We have lovely relationships with our neighbors but still rarely see or interact with them until outdoor living weather starts. Gardening in the front yard works well, for example. I’d start the same way as last time and go from there. One thing that I find helpful is to find out what they do for a living or for hobbies, then ask their advice (not services or belongings) when you need to do something related. Another tip is to get to know the person in the know about everyone.

      I will say that in neighborhoods designed to have residents drive into their garage and enter through the garage into the house are hard to crack. We’re in an older neighborhood (1920’s) where you have sometimes too intimate knoweldge of your neighbors’ comings and goings and have had a much easier time meeting people than friends in new neighborhoods. Design aside, it may also be harder when there isn’t an established community. While we’ve gotten to know several “independent” neighbors, joining an established network of long-time residents was a big helps.

    6. I would go over with some baked goods once you get settled into your new house (assuming they haven’t come over with baked goods first, which is what I try to do when I’m the pre-existing neighbor). I think it would be awkward to wait until summer. I get the intention, but I’d much rather do an intro now than go over in several months after having obviously seen each other, waved, etc.

    7. I’ll be the dissenting voice: try not to get so involved with the neighbors that you get drawn into their dramas, as in they come to your house after they fight, their kids run freely through your house, and they expect you do to things for them.

      1. Are you me, another anon? Because that was me at my last house.

        I will add, do not let them drive your car.

  15. Threadjack:

    I graduated in May 2011, since September, I’ve been working on a per diem basis for an attorney and he’s been sort of mentoring me. In January, I was considering volunteering with a judge here (I just moved here and don’t know anyone, so I thought it would be a good chance to get more involved in the legal community and network), when he offered me the chance to be second chair at a trial this spring, which I agreed to, but meant I couldn’t take the volunteer opportunity. Since then I’ve had a lot more work from him doing higher level work related to the trial (originally I was just writing memos).

    Since I started working for him he’s mentioned several times that he thinks I should take the neighboring state’s bar. I’ve resisted because it’s a lot of money and time, that I’d prefer not to spend when I’m really struggling financially. I think it would make me more marketable, but not that much more marketable. Today I got an email from him “ordering” me to take this state’s bar, and telling me that he’ll give me more work to cover the cost. Then he followed it up with a 15 minute phone call basically telling me how I’ll never get a job unless I do this. Finally, he said that if I take the bar, then he’ll let me serve as second chair at this trial, which I was under the impression that I was already going to be second chair at.

    I’m incredibly angry, and I don’t know the right way to handle this. I feel like I need to say something, but I’m not sure how much room I have. I want to be second chair at this trial, and to a certain extent believe I’m owed that. I haven’t decided yet whether I want to take this other state’s bar.

    I’m making $25 an hour and basically on call 24/7. I’ve worked several hours a day for the last 4 weekends, because I thought I was going to be second chair on this trial.

    1. This is tough. The only way I can think of to handle it would be to have an honest conversation with him after you’ve calmed down.

      Then go into his office (if you can), or telephone if you must, and lay it all out in the most respectful way you can. “I really like working with you. I’ve done a ton of work on this trial, and I’m really looking forward to it. But I guess I didn’t understand that in order for me to continue, you need me to take the Missouri Bar. I would really like to, but I can’t afford it at all. And when I’m studying, I can’t work. So I can’t see how that would work out for me, unless maybe you would be willing to pay me a wage during my studying, and pay for the costs. Otherwise, I just can’t afford it. But I really want to keep working for you. So I’m just not sure what to do. I really need your help in figuring this out.”

      If he says that you have to take it or you’re fired, then you’ll know. But he’ll know that you have concerns about it.

      I’m not sure how it can get worse for you… unless you expect him to blacklist you or something.

    2. Do you want to work for him permanently? If so, maybe it is time to have a direct conversation about it. “I really was not planning to take State X bar, however, I enjoy working with you and if you are offering me a full-time job, I would be willing to take State X.” This sounds like a sticky situation!

      1. I don’t think working for him permanently is an option. It’s more that he thinks it would be best for my career for me to take State X’s bar, and is trying to bully me into doing it. I also don’t think he’s going to fire me either way, it’s just a question of whether or not I get the trial experience, which I really want.

    3. Okay, so he’s paying you $25 an hour which (at least in my East Coast city) is a bit below market for contract work, when that contract work is just doc review. Except that he’s using you as a full on associate and having you work tons of overtime (which I assume you’re not being paid time and a half for. He’s scr*wing you around on whether or not you’re going to second chair this trial. And now he thinks he can bully you into spending a couple thousand dollars to take a bar exam you don’t want to take.

      You need to have a come to god discussion with him. It may be that he’s right, that you may need to take this bar, but your working conditions have issues regardless.

      1. Just to be clear, I’m not actually working over 40 hours per week. It’s averaging out between 10 and 25. It’s just a lot of, it’s 10 am on Sunday, I need this by 4 pm. Or, it’s 4 pm on Wednesday, I need this first thing tomorrow morning. I don’t love my working conditions, but it’s tolerable to keep my resume from having a giant blank spot and because I need the money. I’m in a smaller market (pop. ~ 1 mil.) so there isn’t a ton of contract work around.

        1. I still think he’s taking advantage of you. And its weird that he’s being so adamant about this bar exam thing.

          Now — I wouldn’t dismiss the possibility off hand that he is right and taking the neighboring state’s bar exam is important, but the fact that he’s “insisting” and using this project as a stick is concerning.

    4. Ask him what taking the other bar has to do with you being second chair at this trial. If there’s no connection and he’s just trying to bully you, hopefully he will admit that you don’t need to be admitted or have admission pending in neighboring state to do the trial, but he really thinks you should, at which point you can tell him that you appreciate his advice and are leaning toward agreeing with him, but at this point you cannot afford to do so. I might throw in something about how you’re learning a lot from him–both from his “mentoring” and from working with him–and you hope you can continue with this trial.

        1. …tell him you’re planning to take it in July, do the trial, and then say something else happened that prevented you? :)

      1. Two western states, I’d prefer not to be more specific, I feel like I’m already being a little to indiscreet as it is.

    6. What state are you in? I’m in NJ, the going rate for per diem work through my school program was $25, and I did that for a while.

      Anyway, I took PA and NJ bars. If this is the region you’re in, I can give you more info on the bars.

  16. Help! Have any Corporettes taken cruises to Progreso or Cozumel? We have one day in each. We’re leaving tomorrow night. (!)

    Tips? Should I just skip the ship’s shore excursions and wander around on my own?

    1. I don’t know if you will get this in time, but I went on that cruise at the end of may. For Progreso, I did a tour of the Mayan Ruins offered through the Cruise. In order to be a guide there, they have to have a college education, so it was very informative. If you are good at bartering, you can take a bus there and then find guides. I am pretty passive when it comes to stuff like that, so it was easier just to go with the offered tour. In Cozumel I also did an excursion offered by the cruise line. I swam with the dolphins, which is something I have always wanted to do. I found that in Cozumel, there were more things within walking distance that I could have done, had I not already signed up for a shore excursion. I think that you may also then be able to fit in more than one thing. I was done with the dolphins pretty early in the day, but there were no excursions offered that left in the afternoon, so I ended up wandering aimlessly around the market until it was time to get back on the boat. Hope that you find this helpful and enjoy your cruise.

  17. I didn’t go through all of the comments over the last few days, so I apologize if someone has already posted this. I just thought it was pretty cool. You can enter your measurements into this site and see what size you should buy or what brands would fit you well. I have no connection to it, I just saw it featured in an Economist article today. http://sizes.darkgreener.com/

    1. Very cool. Thanks for sharing!!

      Note: Make sure it’s set to US instead of UK (if you are in the US, that is). LOL, I couldn’t figure out why the sizes weren’t coming out right! …and why the selection of stores seemed odd.

    2. Apparently my stupid computer thinks it’s adult content. I’ll have to check it out at home when I’m not blocked.

  18. It’s my last day at my firm. Debating if it’s an appropriate time to leave yet…. Central time.

    1. Start walking around saying goodbye to the people you will actually miss. That should kill some time, then say goodbye to boss and split!

    2. Why are you still there ? Surely you are not being productive; what could you be working on ?

    3. Doc. Review…. as though focusing on that isn’t hard enough on a normal day…. I think it’s time. :)

        1. +1. I almost always go home early on doc review days and it’s never my last day (hopefully). GO HOME GO HOME GO HOME.

      2. I think it’s time too (though I’m not one to talk….I actually worked a whole day *after* my last day at my previous job, simply out of the goodness of my heart. I need to work on that).

  19. i actually don’t mind this suit ( or the pink color of the other suit) at all. It’s definitely ring master, but whose to say you can’t pull it off?

  20. Is there a Corporette for dudes? ‘Cause I need to refer someone there. I got an email from an associate at the Biglaw firm I used to work for (this is the second person their career office has referred to me) asking about the federal agency where I am now employed.

    Two strikes: First, he emailed using his gmail, and the name is his full name. Great, definitely the right call. However, the name that displays as “From” is not capitalized. I actually do this for my INFORMAL email address, but a professional email? Capitalize, dude.

    Second, and even more egregious, the entire email is italicized and in blue font. This is the equivalent of sending your resume on patterned, perfumed paper.

    WTF? Ok, just had to tell someone about this. How did this guy get a job at Biglaw? Though I might guess why he’s leaving….

    1. I just got super paranoid and checked what my name is on my Gmail account. Have all my emails been going out in blue italicized font without me knowing??! But no, I checked. I’m not sure how that would happen unintentionally.

      Also, I really wish there was a Corporette for dudes. I know many who need it.

      1. I work with an older biglaw partner in a regional office who writes all of her emails in size 16 blue times new roman font. I always thought it was happening without her knowing, until one day I sat next to her while she was responding to some emails on her laptop. Yep, size 16 blue times new roman font. She also says each word out loud as she types it.

        1. Yea, there’s a much older senior male partner at my firm, who is also extremely conservative and yet his signature is in bright blue comic sans font, size 16. All his emails are also written in comic sans, but at least usually in black, size 14 (which looks quite reasonable next to his signature).

          This is a serious deviation from the firm standard signature, which I believe is in Calibri, font size 12, black. He also refuses to use our firms document management system, which makes working with him very hard, since you never have the latest version of any documents. Ever.
          He is a fantastic litigator though, and very well respected within the community, so…..I’m betting the Comic Sans is not a deal breaker for his clients.

      2. Sometimes when I edit text (ie, reply and take some of the text from the original message and edit) or copy text directly into the body of an email (like if I’ve used it in other emails, like a boilerplate email) Gmail has it set to display as “purple”. I have no idea how to fix this but it drives me NUTS and probably makes other people think I’m crazy.

    2. Just a question about the full name for Gmail — because my Gmail address is definitely my full name. The signature and “from” line are both capitalized, but I’m just wondering … should I have something else as my email?

        1. I’d give the guy a break on the capitalization issue, that hits me as incredibly picky, as does the blue font complaint. Who cares as long it’s not so light that you can’t read it. Italics, that I will give you as annoying.

    1. I think that if the color looks good on you and you wear very bland shirt, shoes, other accessories, a woman of a certain stature (rank/age/experience, not size) could pull it off. I, personally, would never wear this because I hate hot pink. I don’t think it’s wildly unprofessional if styled as above and if not work to a client meeting (with most clients) or court appearance.

    2. I lurve it. However, it says the color is light purple, but that is definitely pink, so I’m not sure if they’re saying it’s sold out in pink or what. Light purple could be really cool too; I’m just not sure. Also, if you zoom in on the front, it’s like there’s one buttom missing. Huh? Other than that, it’s awesome!

    3. I think it’s lovely! You definitely have to have flair, but I will disagree with AnonInfinity an say I think you could definitely jazz it up a little. Other than the color it’s pretty boring. I would wear a white or maybe black shell under it and sparkly jewelry!

  22. Any advice on buying a brook brothers suit?
    Do they do sales?
    (Not for me, for the bf, when I try on BB suits, I look like I’m playing dress up in adult clothes ;-p)

    2. If you are a lawyer (or if he is), I recently learned from this site that ABA members get a discount at BB.

      That is my only contribution because my city does not have one. Sadness.

    3. Go to a brooks brothers outlet. Everyone once in a while they do friends and family, 25% off. ABA and Lexis offer 15% off.

      1. So, yes we are both lawyers, and I just do happen to have an ABA membership (that thing has been SO worth the $90 I paid for it 1L year– free CLEs!)… so thanks, that is great advice!
        Have you gone to the outlet before?
        He was worried that he’d lose the “experience” (yes, I gave him an eye roll) & excellent tailoring.

        1. I’ve been to the outlet by me, but I was shopping for me. I was impressed by the customer service, cleanliness/neatness of store, attention to folding items and wrapping them in tissue, etc. etc. And the mirrors/lighting in the fitting rooms was acceptable. I have to point that out because the fitting rooms in so many stores are like something out of a fun house with the weirdo lighting showing off every dent and dimple. I don’t know if men have the same problem in their fitting rooms.

    4. They do great suit sales a few times a year. FYI – the outlet suits are usually not the same as the regular suits. So you know, the outlet clothes are “346” – they are good quality but not as good as the “real thing.” I would sign up for their emails and wait for a good promo and buy the real thing. Better yet strike up a relationship with a sales associate. We get notes from ours letting us know when special events are coming up. My SO loves BB and their suits and he thinks there is a difference in quality. He is not someone who generally spends a lot on clothes (all his jeans are Gap and bought on sale) but he only buys his suits at BB b/c he thinks they are so much better and are so comfortable (he likes the Fitzgerald – it’s the more modern) .. He bought a jacket at the outlet, on the other hand, and while it’s great in many ways, he has had to have the pockets fixed several times in 2 years and the lining is falling apart. So you get what you pay for…

      1. Ditto on the outlet suits. And, although you are looking for your BF, in my experience, the outlet sizing for women’s pants is off from the regular store sizing.

  23. Random threadjack – How comfortable are you with your SO having FB “friends” of the opposite sex that your SO does not even know and who live in other countries?

    1. Couldn’t care less. Literally. (And the proper use of both of those oft misused phrases.)

      It’s FB. Now, if he’s frequently visiting those countries for “work” then maybe you have an issue. OR if they’re sending him nude pics.

      When I used to play FB games (finally kicked that monkey…but then replaced it with Corporette!) I specifically looked for people from other countries so that when I stopped playing I could easily winnow my friends list back down.

      1. This. I doubt my husband even knows everyone he’s facebook friends with. I certainly don’t. Of course, I also don’t mind my husband having real life friends of the opposite sex that he spends time with when I’m not around, and he feels the same way. I would never put up with being told who I can and can’t spend time with, and I’m not sure why I should expect him to.

    2. I think the real question is– are YOU worried?
      If your usually not a jealous person, then this might be your inner voice telling you that this dude is not trustworthy.
      For my 2cents, with my current bf, I probably wouldn’t worry because I’m sure there’d be SOME reason (maybe they write on a blog with him, play games with him online or something like that).

  24. I LOVE the Albert Nipon suit – but I don’t think I could pull off the hot pink. Definitely considering the Anne Klein version as separates, though… If anyone finds the Anne Klein version in grey, PLEASE post a link! (I apologize for the Ellen-esque capitalization – but not enough to change it).

  25. help! my SO has an interview with a firm tomorrow and he was asked to bring a ‘clean copy’ of his resume. Is there something about a clean copy of a resume that is different from the typical resume? I feel like it goes without saying that the paper itself should be clean…

    TIA!

    1. Um….I guess I’d just print it off on nice paper? I don’t know what else this could possibly mean.

    2. This made me laugh so much, mostly due to the paper itself being clean.

      My guess is they meant to remove any formatting marks, which shouldn’t be in your saved final version and certainly shouldn’t be printed. However, I know a few people in hiring who review resumes and… apparently people regularly send emails that show formatting – even printed ones.

      It seems that you and your SO are smart enough not to do this, so don’t stress. Just bring a bunch of copies of the resume and relax.

  26. I’d be interested to hear about people’s financial planning. Specifically, where do you go for affordable financial advice? I’ve been struggling with this issue for a while and need ideas.
    My situation is: mid-to-late-20s, first job out of law school, single and no kids. I work for a government which means my salary is modest. It has become very real to me that I’m fully responsible for my financial future.
    I’m not asking for specific advice so much as asking whether people do their own financial planning, go to a professional, read books, blogs, etc. I have tried to think it through and learn it by myself but feel like I’m running in circles. I’m very much at a loss but know that this is an incredibly big thing that I need to master. Any advice would be appreciated.

    1. I’m basically in your position & I REALLY wanted someone to help me with this.
      Couldn’t really find anyone with a recc, so I started reading books & automated my finances.
      I found this book crazy helpful:
      http://www.amazon.com/Will-Teach-You-Be-Rich/dp/0761147489
      I apply whatever he says about credit card debt (which I don’t have) to law school debt, which I have loads and loads of.
      Also, David Bach is pretty awesome.
      Just start small. At this point, it’s probably not helpful to be thinking about tax havens, it is however, helpful to set up the stepping stones (automatic $ to retirement, dream wedding, dream vacation, etc) so that when you start getting comfortable with it and get on with reading more advanced finance books, you’ll be at a great point.
      ** Also, something that my dad told me a while ago which I think is VERY apt is have the person who invests for you be different from the person who gives you advice, that way there isn’t an incentive to steer you into yucky investments that they get a high commission for.

    2. I personally do my own finances, but I also grew up with a mother who runs an accounting firm, so… I have experience (and I just ask her if I’m not sure).

      I highly recommend meeting with a CPA and an attorney. They will usually sit down with you together to put together your current financial plans, let you know your situation, and then determine any estate planning or other legal needs. Many people wait far too long (as I’ve seen at my job) before doing this, which leads to a lot of difficulty. Even one or two meetings can help (especially an intelligent individual) figure out what one needs to do.

    3. When I first wanted to start investing I read a bunch of the columns on the Wall Street Journal How-To Guide (WSJ home page –> Personal Finance –> How-to Guide). They’re pretty brief, but explain basic concepts in easy terms, and give what I think is pretty unbiased and conservative financial advice. There are a few entries on “Managing Your Money.”

      ESquared is right that you should avoid people who “give you advice” but are really making money by pushing you to buy expensive financial products. A fee-only financial planner is good to avoid this, and a fee-only investment advisor will invest your money without selling you nonsense. Because they’re fee-only, they don’t make a commission on selling you things; they just give you advice/invest your money because you pay them to do so. It sounds from your situation that you would benefit more from a one-time talk with a financial planner (probably a few hundred dollars) than an investment advisor.

    4. I do my own financial planning after learning the hard way that some CFP should really be called “insurance salesmen”. I started with a few light blogs and eventually moved to books. Try moneyunder30.com as a starting point. The good news is that a plan does not have to be super complicated to be good. I’m a huge fan of paying down debt as quickly as possible, and investing in index funds for the long haul — two concepts that you could easily teach a 10 year old, but they make a huge difference!

    5. I highly recommend Edward Jones. May family has been with them for years. They have offices all over the country. They give sound advice, manage your long-term savings/investments, and give great guidance. Their consultation is free, and they’ve never tried to sell me insurance. I have 2 IRAs through them and other investments too. I looked on the website until I found a local branch, and was willing to go outside my neighborhood until I found a female financial adviser.

      If you find the jargon intimidating, I’d start with a Suze Orman book. I also recommend Lois Frankel’s “Nice Girls Don’t Get Rich” to get yourself mentally situated, i.e. psych yourself up. (This book inspired me to start my own law practice, mostly because it helped me understand that women are often given the message that we can’t manage or understand finances.) It’s a follow-up to “Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office” that addresses why financial literacy is to intimidating to us.

      There are lots of people giving financial advice on tv and selling books, etc. Not everyone agrees. For instance, I don’t agree with the David Bach view of getting rid of all debt. A reasonable mortgage is not terrible. A 2% federal consolidated student loan isn’t terrible. But you need to know what will work best for you personally. Learn to be critical of what you hear and read.

      You might also start with mint.com.

      1. If the OP is a recent law school grad (which it looks like she is), then her loans are probably clocking it at around 7 or 8%– at least mine are.
        It can, and is, suffocating.

  27. I’m thinking of hiring an immigration attorney to help me respond to a request for evidence from USCIS. For something like this, should I expect an engagement letter from the attorney?

    1. If you don’t get an engagement letter, I’d be concerned. Any attorney should want to use it to define the scope of the engagement and the rates to be paid.

    2. I don’t know if I agree on this one – I’d say it depends on the size of the firm. I know a lot of attorneys who don’t do engagement letters, but they tend to be in smaller and more local firms.

      I wouldn’t be surprised by one, however.

      1. Thanks. I wasn’t sure if it was because of the size of the firm (it’s a one-man shop) that the attorney did not send an engagement letter. A much larger competitor had said that was the first step in their process, so I was just wondering. It’s not a lot of money and he comes highly recommended, but I want to be careful.

    3. Please check out your immigration attorney very thoroughly. It is hard to find a good one. I don’t know how it is in other practice areas, but I consider it very important to put down in writing exactly what work will be done under the contract. I see a lot of clients coming from other attorneys who messed up their cases, and they often had no written contract, no receipts, and the attorney failed to do what the client understood them to be doing or did something entirely different.

  30. Hello there! This post couldn’t be written much better! Reading
    through this article reminds me of my previous roommate!

    He constantly kept preaching about this. I most certainly will send this information
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