Coffee Break: Vince Cardigan

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1. Recs for a really good, stable (I hear that’s important but I don’t know what this means), vitamin C serum? inexpensive, preferably so like $30 or less. I was using the body shop’s serum, but want to see if there’s something better in that general price point.

   1. Timeless, ordered from their website and not from Amazon. I have used a LOT of vitamin C serums including skinceuticals and think this one is the best.

      1. +1 to Timeless, and also use NuFountain. I have been using drunk elephant after I got it as a gift and am not that impressed.

   2. Timeless isn’t stable and will oxidize, meaning it will turn yellow/orange and will function as more of an oxidant than an anti-oxidant. For me this meant a lot of waste because I had to keep replacing it well before it was done. This is not unique to Timeless. The gold standard SkinCeuticals does the same.

      Sunday Riley and drunk elephant offer stable vitamin C serums but they’re expensive.

      I’m currently trying the Olay Tone Correction Serum B3+ Vitamin C which is about $30 and has the same stabilized vitamin C as the others.

      1. How do you know when SkinCeuticals does this? It’s already pretty orange-ish.

         1. It shouldn’t be orange ish from the start. Mine was basically clear until it oxidized. Throw it away when it turns. It’s either doing nothing or actually doing harm.

      2. Drunk elephant one was orange straight out of the bottle for me

         1. Oh you’re right. That one is not stable. My bad.

      3. I found that Drunk Elephant oxidized quickly.

      4. I keep my vitamin C serums in the fridge, which seems to help.

   3. I realy like The Ordinary’s Vitamin C product. At less than $10, there very little to lose by giving it a try.
      https://www.sephora.com/product/the-ordinary-deciem-vitamin-c-suspension-23-ha-spheres-2-P427410?om_mmc=ppc-GG_1380515476_53324488525_aud-898361772363:dsa-414040944380__385421813501_9010770_c&country_switch=us&lang=en&gclid=CjwKCAjwydP5BRBREiwA-qrCGhYG1udEpbcuIaC7loU10UXENkWtjOXfVLLeisnDYmCpqIG1ZoUizRoCNRoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

      1. +1

         1. CountC, my Ordinary Vitamin C suspension 23% plus HA spheres came today so I’m excited to try! I waited for the 100% niacinamide powder to come in to order. I’m so excited. I was running out of my niacinaamide serum so this is the perfect time. Also got Hylamide SubQ skin to replace my Buffet peptide serum and Hylamid C25 to try that formula of Vit C. I’m going to give each of them 4-5 weeks one at a time to see what’s up. I’m trying to hold off on injections as long as possible with these these plus tret. My derm says I’ve become such a skincare nerd between this and Caroline Hirons book. At least it’s not an expensive habit as yet.

      2. +1 but I am waiting impatiently for their vitamin c powder to come back in stock. Also if you want to learn all about how those expensive brands oxidize and you should throw them away when they turn, read this great explanation I will link below.

         1. https://theordinary.deciem.com/vitcguide

         2. If you like powdered vitamin C, I find the Clinique one to be solid.

            1. Oh, thanks for the tip. I’ll keep an eye out for it. If saks stocks it maybe I’ll use my amex platinum saks credit on it. I usually end up using it on benefit beauty item anyway so skincare works too.

            2. Am I the only nerd who is enjoying the science pun here? (If purposeful, thanks for the giggle, RW.)

   4. Check out Stratia. Small indie brand run by a chemist named Alli. All of her products are great, fairly inexpensive, and she often includes candy in her shipments!

   5. I like Mad Hippie.

      1. That one oxidized on me within a week.

   6. Sunday Riley’s CEO glow moisturizer is amazing and it claims to be stable (I don’t use the serum but there is a version that’s a serum). My skin is so much brighter and turns over quickly when I use it (I don’t get small clogged pores around my nose, fine lines don’t show, etc. They have a small size that’s around $22 if you want to try. I’ve used Skinceuticals and Drunk Elephant and both felt really sticky to me. And when they do turn, the smell is just awful. I didn’t realize it could be bad for you after they turn–I had just assumed it stopped being effective.

      1. I’ve used the serum. It’s nice. I don’t know if I saw any vitamin c effects though. It’s hard to tell.

         I also have a bit of resentment over their packaging. The bottles hide a plastic bag that keeps the contents air tight, which is good, but create the appearance of a lot more product than they actually contain. And it’s hard to get the last drops of product out.

   7. IDK who’s right but ya’ll are my people.

2. Can anyone here comment on juicing vs. smoothies (green vegetable-based ones, not fruity ones). I have been drinking green smoothies for years, and yesterday strained it through a nut milk bag to make it a juice. Ingredients were roughly 7 stalk of celery, a cucumber, a head of lettuce, 7oz of spinach, 7oz of kale, a handful of mint, handful of cilantro, a peeled lemon and a peeled lime. I woke up this morning feeling SO GOOD, like refreshed and energized. I never feel that way. I think maybe because of the juice? Now I am considering juicing long term.

   1. Put everything you mentioned into a salad bowl and try to eat it. That’s a TON of food to put away in one sitting, good for you or not. I suspect you just strained out enough that it became a portion small enough to not knock you for a loop.

   2. This is one smoothie? I’ve never done this, but all these ingredients go into one glass (serving)?

   3. You did not magically wake up feeling that way because of one glass of juice.

      Fiber is an important consideration. You don’t get it in juice, you do in a smoothie. But that might be more important with fruit, where there’s more sugar.

   4. I doubt you’d see that kind of difference from a single juice-for-smoothie swap, but there’s no harm in trying juice for a week and then trying smoothies for a week to see if it makes a difference for you. Even if you just find that you like juice better, that’s a reason to swap.

   5. I don’t understand why straining the fiber out of your usual smoothie would make you feel more energized. Also that is a lot of greens. There can be too much of a good thing.

      1. Actually, I’m not OP but fiber can make me really bloated and gassy. I tend to eat more “low roughage” foods. Maybe that’s why she felt better?

         1. I have to limit fiber, so this would probably be it for me too.

         2. Interesting. So I have zero issues with bloating and find that fiber regulates my digestion and helps me metabolize other foods well. Question for you, if you do what OP does, won’t the juice just be a lot of fructose so it will cause blood sugar with no leveling effect? There is no fullness/satiation because there’s no chewing of whole food it’s all liquid.

   6. Smoothie > juice, always. Why take out the fibre of your greens. I make a green smoothie like this almost every day, but without the lettuce and less of everything else (7 stalks of celery is too much for me, I use 1-2 in smoothies). But also eat these things too so you get the benefits of mastication as part of the digestive process of the food.

3. A few thoughts…

   1st, I put the title of the post (the what would you tell yourself but it has to be trivial) rather than using my handle this morning… oops!

   2nd, is anyone else’s “routine” basically just winging it and taking things mostly as they come and wondering who these magical people are with routines and fancy workout equipment -that they are actually using- and making real meals with actual ingredients?

   3rd, I feel like we all found our point of hitting a burn-out stage, but is there a point in which we adjust and this becomes new normal and we pick back up? Has anyone gotten to the other side of the slump? Without a clear stopping point and with everyone else sending emails at 10pm or whatnot, I burned out but can’t stop, especially since I’m mostly freelance and I’m a doctoral student in a program with no breaks between terms; I’m beginning to wonder if this exhaustion is just my life now!

   1. 2 – yes, but thankfully it’s just me and DH. I am selfishly glad everyone has stopped asking when we are having children and what a joy they are.

      3 – if you find it, let me know. I am o.v.er. it. I’m not exhausted or overworked, I am just legit bored. Like… normally I am not the kind of person who cares enough about their lashes to debate for hours whether to get NeuLash or RevitaLash. But here I am. And not only that but I decided to order both lest they sell out and read more reviews before deciding which one to keep… Our normal “fun escape” activity is planning our next travels and we all know how that’s going.

      We’ve been responsibly isolating since March and it feels like it’s been for naught and we might as well have gone whole hog on herd immunity. I wish the entire country would just stay the F home for a month. While it would be cr@ppy month we would be done!

      1. 3 – same. I have plenty to do, but my brain is so desperate for distraction. And yet there is no way I can buckle down to anything truly arresting, like writing a book or something.

         1. Big same. I’m bored AF but even a long-form article is challenging.

      2. Re #3, I’ve heard a lot of people say “We need to just lockdown for a month and then it will be over” but I don’t see how that could possibly be true. Spain and France had really strict lockdowns for 2 months (my friend lives in Paris and you could only go out for exercise within 1 km of your residence for 1 hour maximum per day…it was SO strict compared to even the strictest US lockdowns). And they successfully got to way lower levels of transmission than the US ever did. But then they reopened, basically resumed normal life and now cases are surging there. Not to US levels yet, but it will get there soon if they don’t take steps to reverse reopening, just like many cities and states in the US have had to do. This is not the kind of thing that can be solved by a quick lockdown. In the absence of a vacation or treatment the only way to resume normal life is to eradicate the virus from the entire world simultaneously, which is impossible at this point. Until then, it’s masks and distancing and localized lockdowns when cases are surging in a particular area.

         1. *vaccine or treatment, not vacation! LOL. Clearly you can see where my mind is at!

   2. Re: your 2nd point, I strongly suspect that people’s routines are overwhelmingly determined by a combination of personality and circumstances. Some people are just more inclined to wing it, some people have to have strong routines to get through everything in their day (work, kids, elder care, volunteering, etc.), some people are just naturally inclined to be organized and systematic, some people are motivated by having fancy gear and a bullet journal meal plan.

   3. 2 – I have a very loose type of routine. I wake up around 6-6:30 every day so the cats don’t eat me alive. Most days since I’m already up, I’ll do a short workout. This consists of workout videos on FitnessBlender. No fancy equipment except dumbbells. I’ll shower and get dressed, but usually in just jeans and a t-shirt or a dress. I do try to meal plan for weekdays, but sometimes dinner consists of frozen pizza or McDonalds.

      3 – I think my “routine” helps with the burnout. I don’t have a high pressure job so I will shut down my laptop when I’m done with work just like I would have done if I was in the office. My office is permanently closing so my new normal is to WFH full time. I do struggle sometimes, because it really isn’t possible to go work in a coffee shop to get a change of scenery. And I would love to go on a relaxing beach vacation, but that’s not really possible either.

   4. 2a. I am cooking real meals with actual ingredients. That is because eating is literally the only thing I have to look forward to these days. My sole source of entertainment is planning meals and baking, sourcing ingredients, cooking, and eating.
      2b. I have a treadmill, a BodyPump weight/bench set, and a bunch of kettlebells, but I am too burned out to use them. The dog has been spoiled by having everyone WFH and has taken to barking unless she gets walked 5 miles a day, so that’s my workout.
      3. I am hoping to get to the other side of the slump and establish a new normal when my teenager goes back to (on-line) school in September. The start of school always resets my routine and energizes me. Unlike summer school, which was self-paced, on-line school will be mostly synchronous, which should hopefully keep her out of my hair while I’m working.

   5. I think I am on the other side, I did a round of planning and shopping for another long stint at home and feel like I am starting to adjust. I bought a better office chair, another tranche of comfy sweats for each of us, some new workout shoes for each of us, and restocked the pantry so we can hunker down when we need to. I then finally got a few uninterrupted night’s sleep and things were starting to feel ok again.

      We did have a crap week though because my neighbor keeps renting his guest house to illegal partiers and flat out refuses to police them. I gave up on talking after a particularly unproductive phone call and reported him to the county health department. He can explain to them why he has ignored a zillion notices from county health about what constitutes an illegal gathering.

   6. 2 – I am perceived as hard working and driven but it’s mostly in response to things. If there is no immediate deadline or thing to respond to, I know in my heart of hearts I am basically a lazy bum who can and will sit around on my phone all day. So yeah, my work style is definitely winging it. I’m later in my career and am accepting the lazy, particularly given the pandemic, but it somehow has not hurt my earning power in the past. At all. I made > half a mil during my peak years.

      3 – speaking of lazy, I was burned out on the go go to and to be honest the pandemic has been a nice break for me. I haven’t yet burned out on taking ‘er easy.

   7. 3) I was exhausted pre pandemic and at this point every morning wake up thinking I should just quit my job and give myself some sort of “sabbatical” until this is over. Would that be powering through or giving up?

4. Since I barely see anyone and can do things for myself, I just ordered some crazy but temporary hair color (Overtone Rose Gold for Brown Hair). I do a few meetings on camera, but mostly just internal & all my co-workers are men. They probably won’t notice.

   Anyone else dyed their hair an “unnatural” hair color? Is this a good idea, or just Covid boredom setting in?

   1. My hair was purple from April through last month using overtone (purple, though last summer I used the rose gold). Based on the fact overtone was sold out or on back order for most of the early part of quarantine, and anecdotally among my friends (who do skew weird hair color impulses in general), I’d say we are far from the only ones!
      Unless your hair is very light brown, the super pink of the rose gold only really lasts a shampoo or two and then it becomes a much more subtle (but still fun) shade

   2. Done the Overtone in rose gold, purple, and silver. I have medium brown hair, plenty of grays. Rose gold doesn’t show up on camera at all–it’s very subtle. With the purple, I just did my tips so I could pull my hair back if I needed to but guess what, never needed to! Again, subtle and especially on camera, the overtone shades just generally made my hair look darker than it normally does (even with a ring light!). I think unless your space is VERY well lit, feel free to go even crazier without worrying it’ll look good on camera.

      And I figured this was the only time i wouldnt be going in person to hearings, meetings, etc. so is my only chance to experiment with unnatural hair color. It’s fun–go for it and have fun with it!

   3. In the Before Time, I dyed the ends of my (already dyed) blonde hair hot pink. It took my boss 3 days to notice. I had a f2f meeting with him every morning. I say go for it!

   4. I think it’s a great time to try out fun stuff like this! Caveat that if you have medium/dark hair overtone won’t show up very well without bleaching first. Make sure you’re using old towels that you don’t care about.

   5. It might be quarantine boredom, but it’s hitting me too. I haven’t dyed my hair since 2008 and yet I just made an appointment for balayage.

      1. … you’re so desperate to be entertained that you made a color appointment during a pandemic even though your natural hair color has been fine for over 10 years? Why don’t you ask us to suggest some safer entertainment options instead?

         1. How on earth is it unsafe to get your hair done? Everyone wears a mask. Four of my cousins are hairdressers and are literally begging people to get their hair done.

            1. Of course it’s not safe. There is no way to maintain a 6’ distance from your hairdresser, and prolonged close contact is the #1 way to transmit the disease. Hairdressers are completely shut down by the health department in my state.

               I’m sorry for your cousins, really, but advocating for them does not mean creating falsehoods is ok.

         2. You’re being overly dramatic. One color appointment is not the end of the world. It’s not like she’s going into a bar or licking doorknobs.

   6. I have overall honey-colored hair that naturally ranges from light blonde (and a gray streak) to dark blonde/light brown and tried the Rose gold for brown hair early in the pandemic. It showed up very strongly on me, especially the one in a tub. I probably didn’t need to get the “for brown hair” but was worried the regular wouldn’t show up unless I was platinum blonde.
      The daily conditioner boost gave me more of the “hint”of pink that I was looking for— almost a strawberry blonde. It took many rounds of experimenting with the stronger stuff (I can only leave it on for a few minutes), and the daily conditioner to nail my exact routine. It was really fun, though, and I recommend it! It was fun to play with trying to get an ombré look, highlights vs. all over color, etc.

      1. OP Here… thanks for the encouragement everyone.

         My natural color (roots) is a dark blonde/light brown … the ends are a medium blonde – (mostly grown-out balyage). Hopefully the “for brown hair” color is not too intense– but if it is, oh well!!

         My hair salon just started to re-open for outdoor cuts on limited appointments – hopefully I can get one.

         They are still not doing any other color services.

   7. I’ve done the Ginger one on my light brown hair and LOVE it. It looks incredibly natural with my coloring and kind of just amps up my natural reddish highlights.

      It does wash out quickly, so try it and see!!

5. Saw your question about P.Volve on an earlier post, and YES! I LOVE it! I typically do it 5-6x/week, usually the <30 minute videos in the morning. When you have proper form, they. are. intense. I love how straight to the point the trainers are, very focused on form, and it's just fun. You get to move and challenge your body with non-traditional moves that keep it from ever feeling stale. I treat it as a fun add-on to my evening strength training, but it truly is an effective workout in an of itself. I actually see more changes in my body (longer, leaner, more toned) with it than I do my strength training (shout out to my great trainer gym though!).

   I don't have any of the official equipment, nor do I think it is needed – especially for first-timers. The equipment probably makes it more challenging, but I think you can use household items for most things. For the gliders, I just wear socks on hardwood. For the resistance band items, I usually opt-out or wrap the one I have around my legs/arms. I do have hand weights, but that's optional, too. The beauty of P.Volve is that you create your own resistance with minuscule muscle movements, so the equipment just enhances the burn a bit. They have a 14-day free trial so why not!

   1. It sounds like the old Callanetics; remember that?!

   2. Thank you!

6. Paging the PJ Pants poster this morning looking for a replacement for Target modal PJ pants (I loved those too).

   I wear the soma cool nights pajama pants. They have pockets (!) but are otherwise very similar to the Target modal pants. They also come in different lengths, and in my experience, hold up better to frequent wear and washing vs the Target.

   1. That was me, thanks! I hate that the target ones were $15 and these are 3x that, but it may be the best option. Thanks again!

      1. They have good sales. I don’t think I’ve ever paid full price. I don’t think I’ve gotten them for $15 either though. You have to sign up for their rewards program.

7. I keep going back and forth about whether to get the featured sweater. It looks gorgeous but is not inexpensive and I live in a warm place. Anyone have it and want to talk me into it or out of it?

   1. To talk you into it, warm places have cold ACs.

   2. I normally really love Vince (several of their 100% cashmere turtlenecks are now on year 5 or so of heavy rotation and have held up wonderfully).

      But wool-blend sweaters with synthetic elements (like this one) will pill more easily and make me, personally, itchy.

   3. Thank you both! Yes, the a/c is indeed crazy at my work, but who knows if I’ll get back there in 2020. At home, where I pay the bill, I set the temp a whole lot higher!

8. Regarding cardigans and sweaters of this nature. I have muscular upper arms (which I’m proud of – that’s how I’m genetically built plus I weight-train 3x/week). This makes it hard for me to find sleeves that fit in general, but in cardigans specifically. Any particular brands that you all recommend that accommodate muscular upper arms?

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