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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
A friend of mine recently hit a professional milestone and was looking for a blazer for the requisite accompanying photo. After several years of WFH, nothing in her closet fit like it used to or felt like it matched the moment. She asked for recommendations for a few brands to try on, and Veronica Beard was the resounding winner. The cut, the fabric, and the style looked both professional and chic — the rare double whammy for a lawyer headshot.
This iteration of the classic dickey jacket comes in a gorgeous army green with contrasting trim. I love the way it looks with the floral printed blouse underneath, but it would look just as pretty over a plain white tee.
The blazer is $598 at Neiman Marcus and comes in sizes 00–16.
A blazer that's more affordable is from White House Black Market; it's on sale for $129.99 (in lucky sizes).
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
ChurchNYC
Recommendations for a Christian church in NYC that is LGBTQ-friendly and accepts women in leadership positions? Looking for a smaller church with a younger crowd, good music, and a strong sense of community. I’m thinking an Episcopal church might be a good fit?
Anonymous
Take a look at Forefront Church in Brooklyn. It’s non-denominational but has progressive values, women in leadership (including two of three co-pastors), LGBTQIA-affirming, has a young congregation, and a good sense of community. Will include link in separate reply to avoid moderation.
Anon
No specific church recommendations as I don’t live in NYC, but, yes – check out Episcopalian churches. Women have been ordained since the 70s (and throughout my childhood the presiding bishop (the head bishop of the church / top leadership position) was a woman! The church is also very LGBT affirming: there was an openly gay bishop elected in 2003!
Anon
I’ve always gone to churches with very strong music programs so it doesn’t occur to me that whiskeypalian churches may come otherwise. But: you may want to look for ones with a real organ and organist and for that to be a regular part of worship. Also, it’s not my cultural musical tradition except as an American churchgoer, but see if Lift Every Voice and Sing is noted in the bulletin or in the pews. These are lovely and meaningful songs (but not in regular use in every church — my old church had in the pews but has a different population than my current church; current church uses it’s songs but manually adds to the bulletin for those services).
Anonymous
https://www.churchofthevillage.org/
CreditRisk
Its not NYC but the church on 8th and Hudson and All Saints on 7th and Washington in Hoboken are both LGBTQ friendly and have women in leadership positions.
Calrayo
A dear friend of mine is a postulant with the episcopal church and is at Saint Marks in the Bowery. My friend is nonbinary and I know the church has a big Pride event and other things throughout the year. It looks really great.
NYCer
Check out St James (Episcopal) Church on the UES.
Anon
+1. They had a woman rector for years, and the gay vicar they had got promoted to his own parish just before covid. The new rector is great (and just hired a female assistant rector). Very active parish with tons of adult and kid activities.
ChurchNYC
Thanks for all of the helpful suggestions! 🙏🏻
Seventh Sister
Episcopal churches probably would be a good fit, though I’d go to services at several places to get a sense of what the crowd is like and what the priests are like in each parish. I’m an Episcopalian and our local churches vary quite a bit. Some are big, some are small, some have more young people, some do not. My church is small (@150 pledging members) and while there are plenty of parishioners in the 30-60 age range (which is “young” by mainline church standards), but we don’t have a big contingent of people with kids for a variety of reasons.
Episcopal church music is generally very high quality, and usually in a traditional / classical vein. Some music directors are more open/interested in pop-type music (e.g., we had one that loooooved using bits of Godspell) while others would probably prefer to perform an entire Bach cantata every single Sunday (I like something in the middle of those two polar opposites). While most mainline Protestant churches have a budget for paid organists and music directors, Episcopal churches frequently have paid soloists and section leaders. Ours are often performance majors from local universities.
Other denominations that are pretty open/affirming are Congregationalists (United Church of Christ), Unitarian-Universalists, and Lutherans (ECLA, *not* Missouri Synod). Presbyterians (USA) sometimes but it’s really variable.
Deedee
I’m rewearing a black shift dress to an upcoming wedding and could use inspiration for shoes/bag/accessories to pair with it! Wedding is indoors over Labor Day in Boston area, dress code is “wear what makes you feel best,” but I believe that really means semi-formal in this case. Here’s a link to the dress: https://www.nordstromrack.com/s/sam-edelman-shift-dress/6619620
Anon
Honestly, I don’t think I can do it. To me, that is maybe a sorority date party dress but not something I’d wear as a working adult to a wedding.
Anon
Agree.
anon
Life long Bostonian, here. We’re not known for our fashion forwardness. That, plus stated dress code, I think this is totally fine, esp with some knock out shoes and styling all around (of which I am unqualified to provide, see = not know for fashion-forwardness).
Anon
Almost lifelong Bostonian and I agree to a point. The city is not known for being fashion forward but appropriate dress (and formality) is definitely a thing. I wouldn’t hesitate to wear an “out of date” gown or cocktail dress; a sorority girl party dress, OTOH, would not happen.
Anonymous
What sorority girl
Is going to a party in this?!
Anonymous
Eh…I agree but I’m 40. If OP is 24, this is basically a party with sorority friends :). A just fine dress pick. Add sparkles.
Anon
Agree. Maybe something more like this?
https://www.nordstromrack.com/s/sam-edelman-one-shoulder-satin-midi-dress/6832880?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FBrands%2FSam%20Edelman&color=001
Anonymous
I think OP’s dress is more adult than that one. Satin looks cheap and the full tiered skirt is juvenile.
Anne-on
Just about everyone I knew who went to weddings in their early 20s wore shorter/tighter things than I’d wear today in my 40s. If you like it (and if it’s what you already have) I’d add in sparkly gold accesories and a fun clutch.
anon
This looks fine? I see plenty of 30- and 40-somethings wearing dresses like this at weddings.
Anon
I agree, I think it’s a cute dress and perfectly appropriate for the occasion.
Anon
Honestly, the sleeves make it look like a dress for a “middle school formal” or something. The dress suggested by Anon at 9:38 is much better.
Anon
You’re being rude.
Anon
Agreed.
Anon
It’s fine. Bunch of former brides here carrying around deep resentment about how people dressed at their weddings.
Anonymous
That is so funny because when I look at that dress I do not think sorority, I think old lady.
Anonymous
Sheesh people are so critical. This dress is perfectly fine and will blend in with the dress code. Get a blowout if you can, long sparkly earrings, sparkly clutch or shoes and call it good. We don’t have to treat every event like you’re on a runway.
I’m also surprised this dress reads young to folks here, to my eye this reads a bit older or more conservative, like you’re attending your friend’s kid’s wedding, or a coworker’s wedding.
Anonymous
SAME! My mom’s friends basically wore versions of this dress to my wedding in 2013. The sleeves and cut feel more conservative and a little dated.
Anonymous
Yeah, I’m in my 40s and I think the dress is kind of frumpy. Sorority girls wear Love Shack Fancy, not Nordstrom Rack.
Anon
I agree. As long as you’re appropriate, you don’t have to look amazing or spend $$$ on a dress. It’s a wedding and most people will be paying attention to the bride not someone in a simple black dress.
Senior Attorney
I agree. I’m an Old, so what do I know, but I think it’s perfectly fine and I wouldn’t think twice about seeing it on a guest of any age from 20s to 40s.
Deedee
I am young and though I’m tall, I promise the dress looks longer and dressier in person! :)
DeeDee
I’m short and fat with stumpy legs. my dresses are cut the opposite of this – show off up top and cover up down below. if you’ve got it, flaunt it!
Anonymous
I think it’s a great dress for a wedding for an adult and personally I’d add gold accessories!
Marketiere
I would keep accessories simple and lean into a sparkly clutch.
Anon
+1. This is a great wedding dress and it’s wonderful to rewear items
Anonymous
Oh big sparkly earrings and a bold berry lip would be my pick! Have fun!
South american girl
This, with your hair up
Anonymous
Metallic accessories would be fun and since they are trending are easy to find.
A
Statement gold necklace or earrings
Gold shoes
Bracelet or cuff
Smoky eye or red lip
Anon
I wouldn’t wear black to a wedding, very depressing.
Anon
It depends on region. At all the weddings I’ve been to in the NE, black is very common
Anonymous
So true. Last labor day I wore a coral dress to an evening wedding and I was only one not in black or darkest navy. I felt ridiculous. This was northern NJ.
Cat
Black is a super popular choice for northern weddings!
Anon
This must be specific to region. I’m in NYC and have worn black to at least two weddings. Black is very formal and classic to me.
Anon
Black is formal and classic, but I still feel like if you could wear it to a funeral (not this dress), it maybe shouldn’t be my first option for a wedding. So would need to be some sort of “happy party” black dress, which I have seen in the wild and own in a cotton print on black that would work for a summer wedding, but IDK about October in Boston. If OP knows her crowd, I’d agree with the “bring the bling” in the accessories department.
Cat
I have been wearing black party dresses since I was 14 and going to my first homecoming dance – they are harder to avoid than find in the north and are offered in fabrics for all seasons?!
Anon
People wear black to weddings. It’s normal.
Anon 2.0
Same – as someone who grew up in the South the idea of black to wedding has me clutching my pearls! Though if I attended a northern wedding, I’d follow those norms, fwiw.
Anon
Another Bostonian here. The dress is fine for a wedding!
Anonymous
Love the dress! For shoes, I’d wear either black, leopard or metallic. If black or metallic I’d try to echo the pick in your bag. Dress looks short so it’s a great time to show off some fancy shoes! The decorative sleeves are a beautiful element. I think you want to make sure your bag complements and does not compete with them. I’d love these with your dress and a simple black bag
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/badgley-mischka-collection-blaze-pump-women/5909725?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FShoes%2FDress%20Shoes%2FMedium%20%282%22%20-%203%22%29&color=295
Runcible Spoon
Love that shoe, in “latte” or black with this dress! Or silvery strappy high-heeled sandals, with a silvery clutch and sparkly chandelier earrings. No bracelet — let the sleeves do the talking. Enjoy!
Anonymous
Nice dress!!
Anonymous
In search of resources (books, websites, podcasts, YouTube content…anything really) to help a middle school athlete understand the impact of nutrition on performance.
My child is a competitive swimmer who has had success at the state competition level and recently expressed that their next goal is Zones. Up to this point, child has gotten by on natural talent. Child understands the benefit of increasing practice, but still believes they can fuel on cocoa krispies and potato chips. I provide plenty of healthy options as well, but child eats the bare minimum of healthy food.
As this is child’s goal, I have no interest in being the one to place restrictions on food or make decisions about diet beyond continuing to offer healthy options and maintaining current standards of eating (ie, packing just one treat in lunch box). However, I’d like to offer some resources for child to begin to make their own decisions and request healthy snacks, rather than me constantly guessing and having the food rejected in favor of Nutella or whatever.
This is a learning journey we could go on together as I was never an athlete. I have a basic understanding of nutrition, but not as it pertains to athletic performance. However, anything I say will be met with eye rolls and sarcasm (because…middle schooler) so a reliable third party source of info would be helpful.
Anon
In high school, our coaches would talk with us about nutrition and fueling appropriately. Would that be an option?
Anon
I was a competitive swimmer, and I would caution a lot of the girls I swam with developed eating disorders (including myself). Swimming (like gymnastics and dance) seems to foster disordered eating because there’s no hiding what your body looks like. I would also ask your kid’s swim coach about any dryland exercises or cross training. I started weight lifting at about 13 or 14 to cross train in an age-appropriate way. In HS, sometimes we had to taper our training and carbo load before a big meet, so nutrition did factor into the conversations with my coach.
anon
Same thing with cross country runners.
OP, do you think our child would be open to trying to add in healthier foods for, say, a couple of weeks? As an experiment/challenge? Perhaps if they see actual results in their performance, it’ll click and motivate them to keep going.
Anon
Kind of agree with this — cross-training and strength will get you further than just eating. My teen isn’t all that athletic, but runs and frequently just runs out of steam without a shocking infusion of . . . Whole Wheat Goldfish (which she likes for the flavor vs any perceptions that WW makes it a “healthy” choice).
Anne-on
Does your pediatrician have a nutritionist on staff or one they can recommend to you? That was super helpful for us and the nutritionist was great about brainstorming lots of different options as my kid has aversions to certain types of food.
Fwiw, nutella on grainy bread and some fruit on the side isn’t all that different from peanut butter, so that’s not a battle I’d fight.
Anon
Nutella is fine sometimes, but it’s not the same thing as peanut butter. The first ingredient is sugar and the second is palm oil. Compared to peanut butter, which is just peanuts and salt (at least the kind I buy).
Anon
I just compared the nutrition data and Nutella has 1/4 the protein and 1/3 the fiber of peanut butter, plus a lot more sugar. Again, fine to eat sometimes, but don’t think that it’s the same thing.
anon
Does your kid’s swim program address nutrition at all? Honestly, this may be a case where it would be helpful for your kid to see a sports nutritionist. I have a middle schooler and the chances of him catching on to any resources I might provide, especially about something he does not care about, is slim. A neutral third party could help.
Anon
When I was in middle school, I didn’t really understand what healthy food was. Like I knew that broccoli was healthy and ice cream was not, but had no understanding of good fats, bad fats, the need for protein, etc. I was also hungry All The Time (especially if swimming was involved) and my body was screaming for calories.
Best suggestion I have is to get a cookbook that is aimed at women athletes (I love Shalane Flanagan’s cookbooks), and work through the recipes together. Explain why some things are better than others and tell her that she will eventually get the hang of it. The cookbooks also have plenty of recipes for healthy and filling snacks, which is nice.
I worry that the healthy food you are offering isn’t enough to satisfy the hunger of a tween/teen athlete. This is especially true if it doesn’t have enough healthy fat and protein. I’m marathon training, and my breakfasts look like avocado toast on whole grain bread with eggs on the side, or scrambled eggs, tomatoes, goat cheese on toast. Cheerios and milk isn’t going to cut it.
Anon
Former high school / college athlete and currently in marathon training: I totally agree that those who aren’t used to training aren’t used to training nutrition at all! You often need to eat more than people realize and ensure you’re getting the proper amounts of carbs, protein, and healthy fats topped off with plenty of fruits and veggies. For me, cereal (even “healthy” cereal” or a cup of greek yogurt is a snack, never a meal (I have a bowl of cheerios almost every day because I love them; but breakfast is much more substantial). Even oatmeal + berries doesn’t cut it for many athletes (as there’s no protein).
I still remember my high school swim coach buying a fridge to store the team’s post-practice chocolate milk. It’s great for recovery and has a good balance of fat, protein, vitamins and minerals. I still frequently drink it after lifting :)
You don’t mention what you family typically eats for dinner, but that’s probably a good place to start without getting much pushback (provided you typically eat the same thing together). I still remember when my parents went from 90s healthy to 00s healthy to 2010s healthy and how our family dinners shifted in accordance, and it did eventually impact my breakfast, lunch, and snack choices for myself (partially because what I was used to and liked changed, partially because it was what was more easily available to me, and partially because as I got more into athletics I also cared more about what I was eating). If you can ensure dinner each night is a healthy protein, a whole grain, vegetables, and some sort of healthy fat (olive oil, avocado, nuts, cheese, etc) then that’s at least one meal that’s going to be good fuel. And then you and kiddo can go from there.
That being said, Nutella toast + fruit is just as fine as peanut butter toast + fruit (which is a great breakfast option as it has carbs, protein, fats, and fruit).
Anon
We make oatmeal with milk to get protein into it.
Anonymous
You are correct — they are hungry all the time! To be clear, the “healthy” breakfasts im offering are eggs/whole grain toast, protein pancakes, Greek yogurt with fruit, oatmeal with fruit. I don’t actually believe in packaged cereal as a breakfast item but keep some of the mini boxes around as treats. Love the idea for the cookbook. Kid enjoys baking and helping in the kitchen. But when it comes to eating it’s constantly chicken nuggets and pizza or nothing
Anonymous
I have a teen who prefers processed foods. She had an “aha” moment over the summer when she wasn’t eating school lunch every day, started eating real food every day at home, and realized that she felt so much better. She has been cooking her own lunches every day all summer and plans to pack her lunch in the fall. So maybe just feed her less-processed foods for a while until she starts to see the benefits and her tastes change?
Anonymous
I like some of the recipes from the Shalane Flanagan cookbooks, but I would not expose a tween girl to the photos of Flanagan.
Anon
That’s a really problematic statement.
Anonymous
She looks like she has an eating disorder. How is that problematic?
Anon
You actually need to not say that. It is wrong on so many levels.
To educate others reading this, because I don’t expect you to understand:
It’s not okay to make fun of people’s bodies for being too slim. Even if it were, Shalane doesn’t look like she has an eating disorder: she looks like a pro marathon runner, and, for extra points, the daughter of two retired pro runners. Keira D’Amato, Sara Hall, Des Linden, and all the other over-35 pro marathoners look a lot like Shalane.
Eating disorders cause long term harm to women runners. It isn’t something to throw around like an insult. Lauren Fleshman tells the story of a teammate who fell off her skateboard and had her bones shatter into dust because an eating disorder caused osteoporosis. This is serious stuff, not something to just toss out there because you have issues with your own stubborn weight.
Anon
She looks like pretty much every other elite runner, and while I know eating disorders are far too common amongst female runners, I also find body shaming of any body type to be problematic (and I’m a different Anon from the one who posted above). She’s trying pretty hard to promote healthy eating, rather than restricted eating.
Anonymous
It’s not making fun of Shalane to say that a tween runner should not be looking to over-35 elite marathoners as an example of how her body should look. A middle school athlete should look like an athletic kid.
Anonymous
1:31, your defensiveness makes me think you are the one who has body image issues. We should not be holding up elite marathoners to middle school and high school athletes as examples of how a runner should look.
Anon
Who’s saying that that giving someone a cookbook is the same thing as telling them that they should look like the author? If we’re talking about problematic ideas, that should go to the top of the list! I feel like this is the flip side of all the people who get mad about Lizzo existing because it’s somehow an endorsement of being fat. Neither one of those arguments makes any sense.
Anon
I’m plus sized and I think the idea that “don’t show a picture of this girl to your tween daughter” is gross. I have friends who are marathoners and triathletes. That is how some people look, especially people who run for a living. “Body diversity” needs to be inclusive of ALL bodies, not just larger ones. I have a friend who is a size 2 and has been her entire life and she eats more than me; she does not have an eating disorder. She is just naturally thin and that’s it. I don’t want people shaming her any more than I want people shaming me.
Anon
I’m currently a size 2 and 40ish and don’t exercise, if I ran as much as that woman does I would look like her. I looked similar when was younger and had a faster metabolism. I’ve never had an eating disorder.
Anonymous
I am also a size 2 who would look like Shalane Flanagan if I ran a zillion miles a week, and I would never give my teenager her cookbook.
Anon
So you wouldn’t give someone a Rachael Ray cookbook because she’s overweight? Or does this just apply to strong, slim women?
Anonymous
Thanks all! They do have a dry land program but to my knowledge they haven’t talked about nutrition at all. I will reach to the coach for advice on next steps. My child looks up to him and will absolutely listen to any advice he offers.
Anonymous
Just be careful that the coach actually has good advice to offer in this area. Mine said we only needed to worry about fat, so I was eating sugar all day long.
Anon
Did you grow up in the 80s and 90s? You heard that because that was the dominant messaging about nutrition during that era. OP’s daughter’s coach, who may not even have been born when we were in sports in the 1980s, likely is more-up-to-date on nutrition advice. But it is a good idea for OP to confirm.
Anonymous
As a fellow parent of a swimmer, I have been consistently underwhelmed by the nutrition advice provided by youth sports coaches. Some of it is shockingly bad, none of it is specific or helpful.
anon
Kindly, at this level, your child is probably fine eating normally. Believe it or not, Nutella is actually nutritionally sound as a quick source of calories and cooca krispies are probably just as good nutritionally as a “healthy” breakfast cereal. You did not mention that your child has been having trouble with energy, blood sugar, etc. which would all be signs that the current nutrition is not enough. The biggest issue in middle school is making sure that kids are eating enough and don’t get some hair brained idea to eat 6 eggs before practice and throw it all up. Co-signed, someone that had to unlearn years of “healthy” (aka disordered) eating behaviors from ballet/figure skating as a kid/teenager.
Anonymous
Second that your kid probably isn’t that far off. Nutella is sugary, but has a lot of nut fat. Cocoa Krispies (my personal fave cereal) is not that much worse than other cereals choices.
That said, you could also put the kid in charge of grocery lists. Or stop buying the junk. Your kid, their goals, they decide.
Anon
Aint nothing wrong with Nutella.
Anonymous
Nutella is mainly processed sugar and palm oil. Justin’s chocolate hazlenut butter and Peanut Butter & Co chocolate peanut butter have less sugar and more protein and are more delicious to boot.
Anon
The first two ingredients are sugar and palm oil.
Anon
People have wild views of nutrition!
Nutella is a dessert. Its tasty but it’s not nutritious. Best in moderation, not as breakfast.
Anon
I don’t love guessing or rules of thumb about diet; I think this is how foods end up getting stigmatized when what matters is the complete diet (maybe the Nutella, cocoa puffs, and potato chips are fine!).
I wish this were available without any calorie information, but since I like to see the actual data, when I was working with a dietician, I found micro/macro analysis tools the most helpful. I still use cronometer every once in a while to see if I’m hitting minimum intake recommendations.
I don’t know if there’s a similar tool that’s set for pediatric intake goals (let alone athletic intake goals!), but that’s the most helpful takeaway I ever got from working with a dietician. There’s no magical way to get essential nutrients without consuming them, and a diet that provides enough of them is adequate even if it contains Nutella. And a diet of whole foods that doesn’t provide enough essential nutrients is inadequate, no matter how pristine.
Anon
The comments here saying “Nutella is fine” are absolutely wild to me. A serving size of Nutella has 21 grams of sugar. My Smucker’s peanut butter has 2 grams, 0 of which are added sugars. That is nowhere near an equivalent substitution.
I ran cross country in high school and college, and the nutritionist we had come speak to us in college was great. In high school, not so much. As others have mentioned, there is a significant concern of disordered eating in the cross country community, so they basically encouraged us to eat everything. For example, the woman who came to speak to our team told us that a full size Snickers bar was a healthy dessert to eat EVERY DAY.
That being said, I would focus more on loading up on good foods versus trying to eliminate all of the bad. Talk about food as fuel. If there are any professional swimmers your child looks up to, you could look up their diets together – these are frequently shared online in interviews. I would look it up on your own first to make sure it’s not insane or overly restrictive, and then see what your child could realistically add into their diet.
Anon
Right, the problem with Nutella is less the sugar and palm oil, but that because it’s mostly sugar and palm oil, it only has 2 g of protein per serving, compared to 8 g in peanut butter, with much less fiber and less of pretty much every other nutrient. It’s fine as an extra, but you need to focus on getting the important things in first!
Anonymous
This is the message I give my kid. Stuff like Nutella provides only energy (what we used to call “empty calories”) and no other nutrients, and if you make that the foundation of your diet you are crowding out essential nutrition. You need to get in the protein and good fats and vitamins and minerals first, then you can add some treats for fun and calories.
Anon
One consultation with a sports nutritionist. Someone who themselves is an athlete, which sports nutritionists often are.
Anon318
In case you’re still reading, the Feed Zone cookbooks (skratch labs dot com > shop > cookbooks to see the three available) are fantastic. Lots of easy-to-make recipes for at-home meals and on-the-go food. They also do a great job of explaining how elite cyclists and other endurance athletes (triathletes, swimmers) have to fuel themselves for peak performance and the different delicious ways they can get there.
Anon318
Apologies if this posts twice – I think my first comment got eaten (ha).
I highly recommend the Feed Zone cookbooks. There are three in the series and do a great job of briefly discussing how elite endurance athletes (e.g., swimmers, but there is a focus on cyclists) fuel themselves. Recipes cover before/during/after exercise fueling, plus everyday recipes for everyday meals. If she likes to cook or play in the kitchen, she may really enjoy experimenting with the on-the-go recipes!
Anonymous
As someone who’s been doing macros for weight loss – there are a lot of people who are doing bulks with macros, eating an excess of calories while lifting heavy. the IIFYM idea comes from here – once you meet your protein goals, if it fits your macros you can eat whatever you want. So junky snacks actually aren’t that bad provided she’s getting what she needs in the other domains.
(Also, depending on your own biases, “junky snacks” may include things like protein bars and shakes, which are actually a planned part of that kind of diet.)
But along those lines I’d see if I could find a registered dietician who works with competitive swimmers so you and she are both on the same page.
Anonymous
Kindly, please leave your kid alone. They are not going to the olympics and I did not hear anyone ask for your opinion. Parental interference in food choice is a recipe ( see what I did there) for disaster. Signed sufferer of parental induced life-long bulimia.
Anon
DVF dresses were my white whale for a while. I loved the look, but I am pretty flat-chested and a dress that fit my hips gaped up top. Didn’t look cute with a camisole. I’m not sure if it’s because I’m shorter or short in the torso, but I suspect that maybe it is scaled for the proportions of someone a bit taller. Also: unwrapping. Tailoring didn’t seem to help (ditto hooks, which were always notable).
Enter my SM feed showing me the DVF Sana dress — above the waist, it has buttons, shirt-dress style. And I don’t think it is a true wrap, but has the tie element at the waist. I may have to order as I’m not sure where in my city would actually stock them. Has anyone tried this style IRL? Could not find many reviews online that were helpful. It does seem to solve in its design some of my prior issues while keeping the charm of the look (IMO), but mail order roulette does not spark joy so if it is futile, I may just pass depending on others’ experiences.
Cat
DVF has pretty detailed measurements on their brand page and includes all of them for each size (under the “size and fit” dropdown) – maybe take a look at those vs. a dress that fits you well?
https://www.dvf.com/products/sana-wrap-dress-in-wave-geo-fall-pink?variant=43717791154330
Anon
For me, it’s more than some dresses need an hourglass shape. Not all. And if you are short, waist placement relative to shoulders is the hill good dresses go to die on (on me).
Cat
Ok the shoulder to waist is not included but there is a lot of good info? They provide 6 measurements! This for M – is this not good to get a rough idea of whether there’d be way too much room in the bust if you purchase to accommodate hips?
waist: 30IN
hip: 40IN
shoulder width: 15IN
bust: 35IN
sleeve length: 21IN
armhole width: 18IN
Anon
Ooh — if this is specific to the Sana dress I may be in. I am a pear but these measurements may work for me (Olof maybe a L because DVF can run snug). Thanks for sharing!
Cat
Yes, click the link and the sizes are specific to that dress. They’re provided for each size in the “size and fit” dropdown.
Dvf
I’ve rented that dress on RTR and really liked it. I took an flat chested so the wraps can be a bit tricky but this had more coverage and I generally prefer things not so low cut. the wrap around the waist was also flattering. you can also check the rtr page for more photos and reviews, but it’s probably my favorite dvf silhouette! I just wish RTR had it in other patterns (or it was more available when I need it)
Liz
repost from yesterday- hoping to have input.
I have been a school principal for over ten years, over twenty two years in public education. I have been applying for project and program coordinator positions for over five months, learning and development, almost 500 applications. I had to resign from my school job due to severe burnout, covering unfilled teacher positions due to no subs or applicants, severe student behaviors like furniture being thrown at me and attacked.
I have transfer skills, but the job market is terrible.
I have four degrees past my bachelor, yet I know at this point that I will need to go back to school. I didn’t want to do this, but I feel like I have no other option. I’m stuck at knowing what to go back to school for. Ideas? Thank you for any ideas.
Anon
I know it’s a tough job market, but I don’t think you need (or should) go back to school.
What types of jobs / industries have you been applying to? Would you be open to curriculum or instructional design jobs? Working at an educational focused non-profit or company? Working for the school district in a non-school-based role? What about staff job in a local university’s college of education?
You have executive, administration, and management experience as a principal. You have teaching and curriculum experience as a teacher.
What are your 4 higher-level degrees in? Anything subject matter about the subject your taught or all focused on education and educational leadership?
Are you totally against teaching even if in a very different environment? I totally understand why you are burnt out, but would a different environment like an online school or a well-resourced private school where kids who attack others are expelled work for you?
Anon
I was going to suggest a university, community college, vocational school, etc.
Some museums have education departments, but OP did say she’s in a smaller city so I don’t know if she’s got one local. The pay would also be not great.
Adjuncting and curriculum development are the other things that come to mind.
Anonymous
Omg the last thing you need to do it go back to school! That’s crazy talk. If you need the money while you job hunt, you could just be a normal teacher for a while in a different district?
Anon
Sending solidarity. I was a school counselor for a decade and recently returned to school for a clinical social work degree. My plan is to go into private practice.
What are your additional four degrees in? What are your strongest skill-sets about what do you want to stay away from? I.e., social work, speech pathology, OTA/PTA?
Could you start a tutoring business, are there any relevant municipal/city/public university positions that would allow you to continue to be in a pension position? Have you met with a career coach?
Truthfully most of the former educators I know transitioned into becoming realtors or returned to school for other degrees. It’s incredibly frustrating to see how limiting an M.Ed. can be outside of public K-12 education. The stressors have intensified, and it’s just not realistic for many people to hack it out 30 years in public education. I know I couldn’t. :(
Anon
You don’t need to go back to school. In fact, the multiple degrees past your bachelor’s may, unfortunately, be holding you back from getting jobs because you’re “overqualified” for the positions you’ve been applying to. There is a point at which having too much education or too many credentials becomes a liability, and you may actually need to downplay some of that if you’re applying to, say, regional nonprofits with limited budgets.
Have you worked with a resume/career coach yet? I think they can be invaluable for people like you, who are looking to change careers and need to gear their resume toward a specific type of job. With the way that applicant tracking systems work these days, putting too much information in a resume can hurt you. I think you need someone who knows the environment you’re trying to enter and can give you blunt feedback about your career goals and then help retool your resume so that it looks good for what you’re trying to do, and not what you’ve done in the past. They can also give you blunt feedback as to whether or not your salary expectations or other expectations (like WFH or flexible scheduling) are reasonable for where you’re at, and where you’re trying to go. I do not have any recommendations for a career/resume coach in education or nonprofit – I’m in a totally different field – but maybe someone here will have a recommendation. Good luck!
bird in flight
Completely agree with the first paragraph of this and everyone else saying don’t go back to school.
In your scenario, if I’m looking at your application, I need a strong cover letter explaining why you’re moving away from school jobs (short, to the point, and convincing) and how you’re a great fit for this role (focused on skills, not emphasizing your past specific titles). If I get a resume with 4 degrees + lots of experience in a specific field with no explanation, I’m going to wonder why and think it’s kind of odd – you want to answer that question right away.
Anonymous
Based on what you describe, going back to school, doesn’t sound like the right option at all. I would have somebody take a very close eye at your materials, confirm they align with the roles, and go through practice opportunities with you to see if there might be something that’s off. 500 applications seems like an awful lot for somebody with your credentials.
Anon
first of all, thank you for all of your hard work in public education. agree that you do not need to go back to school. you need to be having A LOT of informational interviews to figure out what you want to do and how to best market your skillset on paper. ideally you should have a few different versions of your resume depending on what you are applying to. on LinkedIn there are a lot of former teachers I see posting about how to land jobs, and perhaps follow some of those people or join some of those groups?
Flats Only
Could it be that you’re applying for entry level positions and your many years of executive level experience plus multiple degrees makes you a less attractive candidate? At my large non-profit project and program coordinator roles are filled by new graduates, and you would be overqualified. However, your experience and number of degrees might make you an attractive candidate for higher-level positions, especially in education-adjacent fields mentioned by other posters. DO NOT go back to school – 5 degrees is more than enough, and outside of certain fields the returns diminish severely with each additional degree.
Anonymous
More than that – they become negative returns.
anon
This. My DH is in an educational nonprofit and he sees this all the time. People with oodles of experience who are applying for entry-level positions and are beyond overqualified. OP, I think you need to be doing more targeted applications, not just shooting for anything out there. And don’t go back to school.
Anon
College counselors, high school and middle school tutors, and organizational / executive functioning coaches for ADHD kids make bank in my city. These are areas underserved by our school system and if you know the ropes, I’d consider it. Also people helping ADHD / 504 / IEP kids navigate traditional school settings and being an IEP advocate. You have a lot of skills that people need.
Anon
You need to network not go back to school. While skills transfer, you need to make a case for it against people who have been doing that work. Get out there with friends and friends of friends, parents from your old school, tell everyone what you want to do. Network. You won’t solve life issues by reading a book and you won’t get a job by getting yet another degree.
Anonymous
You do not need to go back to school. You need to network. You might need a resume overhaul. I promise that a different degree will do nothing to improve your hit rate on job applications!!
What kind of industry are these coordinator roles in? Education or something else? What kind of comp are you looking for?
In my town working moms group, if you posted “former Principal, looking For a career change. Skills include xxx, yyy, zzz; need to make a minimum of $X. “ you’d get tons of ideas and maybe some leads.
Anonymous
Be a corporate trainer!!
Anonymous
Hard no to more school. Is that your default every time you hit a speed bump, more school? If I saw a resume with 4 degrees past bachelors I would see someone who is a professional student, who can’t make it in the real world. That would be reinforced by quitting a job and not having another. Just get out there and make some money. Work begets more work. School not so much. Try sales. Teachers are great communicators. Think outside your box.
Liz
More than one degree is common in education. You need a Masters just to teach and get a license, another Masters for principal, and another for superintendent. Looks odd outside of education, but very common. I was also at one school for over ten years, not job hopping.
bird in flight
This is great advice. Sales would actually be a great transition into project management in my industry where you work very closely with clients over long time periods (specialty environmental contractor).
Liz
Thank you for the feedback.
I originally wanted project management, but that is over saturated with applicants. I don’t have the certification for that, that many applying do. So I started applying for coordinator positions instead. Learning and development want someone with corporate experience and there are so many applicants with that experience.
My degrees are education, math, school admin, and then ed specialist for ed leadership/superintendent- none of which are helpful at this point. I met with a career coach and paid to have my resume redone. I tailor every resume submitted to the job applied for.
It doesn’t help that I live in a smaller city, with a house almost paid in full. I started applying for remote positions, over saturated, so I switched to hybrid and in person for a bigger city two hours away. I really didn’t want to move.
The entry level comment is spot on. I have applied for customer facing roles and they won’t even interview me, over qualified.
I’ve never struggled with getting jobs before, so this is all new to me. :)
Panda Bear
Agree that you don’t need to go back to school! Research/consulting/technical assistance companies with an education specialty might be what you are looking for! They are frequently looking for folks with education leadership/coaching experience, and many of the roles are remote, though travel may be required. Check out jobs at places like AIR, WestEd, Westat, EDC… and there a million other smaller firms (I work at one) who do this kind of work as well, but those are some of the big names. Also check out professional/advocacy organizations like the Council of Chief State School Offices, National Center for Teacher Quality, TNTP. Also look at foundations that make education grants – Nellie Mae Foundation, Gates, etc. Best of luck!!!
Panda Bear
And I should add that if you have any specific questions about looking into the education research/TA world, I’d be happy to tell you more. It’s a whole industry that school level leaders are often not super familiar with, since the organizations tend to work at state education agency or district level. devonjdog at gmail.com if you want to email.
Anon
So here’s some tough love: it may be that you need to go back to doing something that is more adjacent to your old job, just so you can have a job, even if that idea is distasteful to you. I hate that this is the case, but women over 50 (and it sounds like you may be over or close to that mark) have a harder time getting jobs, and it will just get harder for you the longer you are out of work. I am not sure how you’re framing your time out of the workforce but it would be better for you to lie and say it was for family caregiving than talk about burnout or mental health. It’s always easier to get a job when you have a job and part of what may be going on now is A. you are applying to jobs you are way overqualified for and people know you won’t be satisfied with the job or the salary for very long. B. Your resume gap has now extended past the point that seems reasonable to most people, and people reviewing your resume are going into the “what’s going on with this person” space when they look at your experience. Small gaps on resumes are not the red flags they used to be, but extended gaps with vague explanations do tend to prompt conversations of “is this person unemployable” among hiring committees.
After 500 applications and no offers, you can see what’s not working. It is probably time to consider going back into education (public or private) in some capacity, and/or really working your network to find another job, moreso than whatever you’ve already done. My mom and MIL were both teachers, so I completely understand what you’re saying about burnout and how crazy the public schools have gotten. I will also say, my MIL stayed in the classroom 35 years even though she really would have preferred to go do something else after about year 25, because sometimes we have to do what we have to do, which is different than what we want to do. It may be that your preferred combination of: stay in my house in my small city and work in X type of job making Y amount of money is just not possible. You may have to move or take a job you’d rather not take to be able to make a living. Sometimes we have to do what is possible and not what’s desired, when it comes to careers.
Anon
Are you getting interviews at all, or are you getting rejected at the application stage?
CreditRisk
I would look at HR roles as I can see how a lot of the skills are easily transferable. Once you have a job its easier to network and make the move to the PMO role you are aiming for. I do not think you need to go back to school but I would suggest that once you have a job you get certified and let the company pay for it.
Anon
your resume does not need to include every single degree that you have. normally i prefer reverse chronological resumes, but yours might be a good case for a functional resume. someone mentioned sales and what if you look at some of the education companies out there of which there are many.
Seventh Sister
A lot of our school principals wind up working for the school district in director or assistant superintendent positions. While my kids’ school district seems top-heavy in this regard, I’m sure there are school districts that could really use your experience and insight outside of a principal role. One of my very favorite elementary school principals transitioned to a position like this and it’s been great for her *and* the district (she works on issues involving our highest-need students and is a real gem).
Anon
I also think you need to stop applying to online jobs and start networking face-to-face. People help people they’ve met and liked. They make introductions. They help you tap into the hidden job market and if the job is not hidden, they get your resume to the top of the pile. Please follow WorkIt Daily (JT O’Donnell) to understand more about this, and how your flurry of online applications is not going to get you the job you want. You need to get out there and meet people. It’s harder, it’s uncomfortable to feel like you’re asking people for things, but you have to hurdle that and do it.
Colette
It’s hard to switch industries and roles at eh same time. I’d focus on just pivoting one.
For example internal education for a manufacturing or project management for a large charter school
former academic
If you don’t have a PMP certification (project management professional) I suggest looking into getting certified. You’ll need to pass PMI’s test and you’ll probably need to study to fill in your experience with what PMI wants but my students have found it very valuable.
A.
Joining the chorus of: don’t go back to school!
I’m a school admin in a private, independent school. Burnout in those environments (even with some high strung parents) tends to be less — more agency/autonomy and fewer students. If you didn’t want to teach, you could work in private school or college admission or student support, or you could work in fundraising or alumni relations. I’ve worked in advancement most of my career and love being in schools — I’m no teacher, but the kids are awesome and it’s great to support such an amazing mission.
Anonymous
I know several principals in your shoes that have transitioned into an HR or recruiting career. No additional education required (unless by personal choice). I assume you were responsible in part or in entirety for interviewing/selecting/performance management of teacher candidates, secretaries (admin), paraprofessionals, food service, maintenance, nurses, mental health professionals, etc… Some of them may have been union? All of those skills are extremely valuable in today’s job market and transferable to other industries.
Anon
I think it’s time to move. And because you are changing to a new field, you can’t expect anyone to want to hire you for a fully remote position, and you shouldn’t limit yourself to hybrid.
Anon
Nike has gotten a lot of bad press over its links to the Oregon project (doping) and its treatment of female sponsored athletes (Allyson Felix). And yet nothing seems to stick to it. I see women and girls in Nike stuff all the time and at my kids’ school, their team stores all feature only Nike gear. What sort of corporate teflon do they have? I am sadly impressed that they are so sticky in the sports world.
Anon
Lifelong athlete and I do not like Nike. I very much agree with you!
However, they have a lot of exclusive deals with schools and teams. When I was in high school we had a deal with Nike: all uniforms, other issued clothing or gear plus any optional team clothing or school clothing or gear had to be Nike. In return, the school got good deals on uniforms and the athletes got good deals on optional team gear.
I played sports that weren’t really in Nike’s wheelhouse: field hockey, swimming, and crew. The stuff for field hockey was fine; no one’s preferred gear but perfectly serviceable. For swimming, no one who swims would choose a Nike suit. We also had a tradition of team robes and Nike didn’t make them and it was kind of hard to work around them. The worst hands down was for crew. Nike just didn’t make unis. We had to compete in a uniform made from another company and I remember it being a whole thing. I rowed in college too and my university’s deal with the provider (I think it was UnderArmor but I don’t remember) was that certain sports (including crew) were totally exempt from the deal. The pro was that we could get what we needed, the con was that it was expensive so we got way way less issued gear than other teams (like they had enough gear to wear to practice every single day, we got 1 sweatsuit + our uniform).
As an adult athlete (runner and triathlete), I own virtually no Nike. Their shoes do not work for me at all (truly, I don’t know any runner who chooses Nikes as their running shoes. Maybe for fashion sneakers but not for running). Their clothes are fine (I do like their tempo shorts), but pricey so I usually choose other brands. I don’t find that their stuff is so good to make it worth the price (and I do feel that way about other brands). To me, they’ve really become a fashion brand that makes athletic clothes rather than an athletic brand that is fashionable.
Anon
I was gifted a pair of Nike VaporFlys (they didn’t work for a woman in my club and we wear the same size shoe) and they are truly amazing for racing.
That said, it is the only Nike item I own, and despite how much I love the VFs, will replace them with another brand when they wear out.
Nike has largely been overpriced and bad for decades; I don’t see the need to give them my money. I cut back in other areas to afford Oiselle, a company that makes a good faith effort to walk the walk.
Anonymous
+1 – I had exactly the same experience. My college also had a deal with Nike. I got exactly one pair of their shoes and then opted to take the stipend towards my own (which was paltry in comparison and wouldn’t pay for a full pair, but luckily my parents still bought them for me). The briefs and singlets were fine, but not my favorite. I hate briefs by every brand though TBD.
As an adult athlete, I would never buy a pair of Nike shoes to actually run in.
Anon
+1 to Nike as a fashion brand
Anon
I honestly do not get it at all. My dd wanted Nike so badly, she was a D1 runner and went to an UnderArmor high school and an UnderArmor college and still wears a ton of Nike items. Same with all her college friends. They despise Alberto and the OP, and have long seen him for the creep he truely is (Felix is not the first female athlete he’s done dirty by), but they all wear Nike all the time. I do not get it.
Anon
They despise the OP? Way harsh, Tai.
Anon
OP = Oregon Project, I assume. Not the Anon above.
anon
They provide so many team uniforms and team gear, and those are typically very long contracts. By the time they’re up for renewal, the sh!tstorm has passed and the cycle continues.
Outside of team gear, I don’t think most consumers know or care about the other stuff. Not saying that’s right, because I haven’t bought Nike since the whole Allyson Felix thing, but it’s just not top of mind for most people.
Anon
I think it’s really popular among non-athletes. I run in a very athletic circle: I was a college athlete as were many, many of my friends and as adults my friends and I are still very active: many half marathons, marathons, triathlons, and adult club sports leagues among us. I don’t think any of us every choose Nike. Everyone has their shoe brand preferences (mostly Brooks, some Saucony, some Hoka, some Asics, some other brands, but no one wears Nike). We likewise buy our athletic clothing and gear from all sorts of brands, but we often workout together and I almost never see Nike worn.
In fact, my only friend who wears Nike was the one who became an athlete as an adult; she didn’t play any high school or college sports but got into running in her early 20s.
Anon
I’m not athletic (though I do run some and wear athleisure, so I’m not completely out of Nike’s market). I’ve never heard of either of these scandals. I was aware that they took some heat for using Dylan Mulvanny (might be completely butchering the name – don’t follow that sort of thing either) for women’s athletic wear, but that is it.
So I don’t know if these things are getting as much mainstream press as the OP might think.
Anon
Anon at 10:00 AM here – my athletic friends and I don’t avoid Nike because of the scandals but rather because we don’t like their product. Their shoes are not good for many runners, their clothing is meh and there are other brands we like better. The scandals certainly don’t help (like after Allyson Felix I wouldn’t shop from them if I liked their product), but we mostly avoid them because we don’t like their product.
More casual runners like Nike because it’s fashionable and trendy and they’re likely not aware of better brands (either they just don’t know about them or they don’t know they’re so much better than Nike).
Anon
I generally consider myself informed but am not an athlete (just an active adult / new runner). I wasn’t aware of any of these issues your post brings up! I wear a lot of Nike gear. It’s easy to find it in great condition and secondhand, and I find the leggings and running shorts in particular to be really flattering on me and durable. I buy Under Armour for my cold weather gear, and sometimes Alo or Sweaty Betty for something fashionable, but Nike is my work horse. Same is true for a few of my workout buddies – they’re all pretty casual “weekend hike, occasional run” people like me. I’ll look into the stuff you mentioned though….
Anon
I guess the bottom line of my post is – Nike is relatively affordable and at least well made enough for the activities I do, and their PR issues may be prominent in athletic circles but not that well known to non athletes.
Anon
I knew of the Allyson Felix issues from the Athleta catalog. Am not anything but a very casual athlete and play mainly tennis (not an area I’ve ever seen Nike in — associate them more with Air Jordan’s and AF1s).
anonshmanon
I also wasn’t aware of these Nike issues, although my online bubble is fairly feminist, but clearly barely tapped into the sports world, or the apparel world for that matter. If you know about this from the promotional materials of a competitor company (as opposed to a news outlet), that is an indication that you can’t expect it to be universally known.
Anonymous
The NYT covered the Allyson Felix story.
Anon
I knew about it before her Athleta sponsorship. Maybe from NPR? Not a sports person.
Anon
Many people, myself included, just don’t care. So much manufactured outrage.
Anon
It’s not manufactured outrage (at least for me). Cannot imagine my BigLaw firm or any other company getting away with treating me like Allyson Felix. If anything, Nike could have played up her pregnancy and won over a lot of people. I didn’t buy some fashion sneakers (AF1s) there as a result but looked at other brands.
Anon
+1 what they did to Allyson Felix was terrible. I was so glad Athleta stepped up and sponsored her and didn’t punish her for her pregnancy.
Anon
I did buy some of her Athleta items and was glad that Athleta stepped up. I would up getting an Athleta card and wish I could tell them that it was largely because of the Allyson Felix connection. Not an athlete, but I’m a working mom in a male-dominated profession (now also caring for a parent with cancer) and I feel this so deeply. If you treat women like sh*t, I will chose another company to do business with.
Cat
I think there is so much clickbait in the world and so many brand scandals that people just skim past the headlines. I was vaguely aware of the Allyson Felix issue but then you have Adidas with Kanye, etc. Not saying two wrongs make a right, just it feels like you’re doing something wrong no matter what you’re wearing!
Anon
AF1s = AlphaFlys or Air Force?
Anon
As a lifelong female athlete, this is not manufactured outrage. Women in sports are constantly disadvantaged: poorer facilities, smaller budgets, gear or clothing not made or designed for women. Women also have to deal with biological impacts such as periods, pregnancy, proclivity to various issues (like stress fractures). It happens across all ages (check out the Mom’s page today for a post on teenagers and swimming) and all sports.
I don’t want to support a brand that drops a world-class runner who chose to also be a mom. Women are still trying to navigate how to be elite athletes and parents, which is something men have successfully done for years. Obviously, pregnancy, childbirth and early motherhood impact women’s bodies and performances way more than fatherhood impacts men, but for years and years women could be elite athletes or moms but not both. Allyson Felix was among the women pioneering being both and Nike treated her like trash.
Anon
Additional issues:
Women run faster (for a time) when they drop weight, and Nike basically pushes anorexia on its athletes. That results in lifelong problems, from osteoporosis to infertility. Look at what happened to Mary Cain.
Women’s athletic heights correspond almost exactly to the only time in our lives when we can bear children. If a sponsor pushes an athlete to not get pregnant while she’s a competitive runner, it often means she has to choose between her career and kids – forever. It’s very tough for athletes who don’t have sponsors, because they need to work in addition to training. Elite runners sleep nine hours a night and nap during the day, in addition to putting in 100 mile weeks. Additionally, the cost of sneakers, gear, and coaching adds up fast. That math doesn’t work with most jobs. There is a reason that Nell Rojas, who AFAIK isn’t sponsored, is a successful marathoner who owns her own business and is coached by her dad.
So when an athlete loses her sponsorship because she got pregnant, that can be the end of her career. Nike takes some pretty hard lines with athletes who don’t deliver year in, year out.
Anon
I’m a working mom who has played tennis (at a mediocre level) since I was in high school. I have daughters. I wouldn’t buy them Nike and won’t buy it for myself. The more I know about Nike, the less I like them. I feel like the serious running stores in my area don’t even stock them (or don’t feature them), but one kid’s co-ed team got warmups from them (other gear is from other companies; none of it was mandatory).
Not op
Don’t forget about Kara Goucher’s assault while running for the Oregon Project.
Anonymous
Just finished reading Lauren Fleshman’s book Good For A Girl which gets into a lot of this, as well as the female triad and eating disorders among runners. Great book if anyone’s interested in learning more.
Seventh Sister
As a non-athlete, I buy very few pairs of non-fashion sneakers, and I usually wind up remembering to replace my “sneakers for the gym” every 12-18 months when we are at an outlet mall. Those sneakers usually end up being Nike ones out of convenience/laziness. I’m also skeptical of retail/brand boycotts as a medium for changing corporate behavior.
Anon
And Budlight got more attention than the Mulvaney Nike ad. IMO, the Budlight ad was no big deal becauser it is gender neutral but the Nike ad was another instance of AFAB not getting sports ad campaign dollars.
Anon
I have switched over to comfy shoe life (loafers, flats, birks, low chunky heels), but I have a formal wedding coming up and I am stumped on shoes! I am having trouble finding something that’s in the middle of the shoe spectrum (not stilettos, but not shoes my mom would wear), no ankle straps, but good for dancing. Any ideas?
Anon
I recently wore gold wedges to a wedding, and I added in those stickable pads to the sole for extra comfort.
Anne-on
Kate Spade, Boden, and LK Bennet are my old standbys for dressy flats. Mgemi is great as well, and I haven’t tried Sarah Flint but they look beautiful.
Anonymous
Something like the Dolce Vita Ashby sandal in nude for you has been pretty ubiquitous this year. This particular brand is part of the anniversary sale. The style comes in a lower heel and a flat shoe as well.
Anon
Particularly if your dress is long, character shoes (what dancers wear) can be a great option.
NYNY
There are a lot of low to mid-height block-heel strappy sandals out there right now, but most have an ankle strap. My sister wore these to a wedding this weekend and said they were amazing and her feet didn’t hurt at all after six hours mostly on her feet and including dancing. But alas, they do have ankle straps.
https://www.zappos.com/p/vionic-rosabel-terra-cotta/product/9847005/color/3547
MinnieBeebe
Naturalizer! They have lots of different styles, some are quite stodgy, but others are just fine for a formal wedding! And if you’re wearing a long dress no one will see your shoes anyway. Something like this: https://www.naturalizer.com/product/womens-kimberly-dress-sandal-3028996/gold-leather-ec0235345
Anonymous
The best looking shoes will be shoes that you wouldn’t wear to work. That means shoes with sparkle, lace detailing, crazy bows, etc. That said, there’s nothing wrong with a pair of low black pumps if the rest of your ensemble works with them. Here is a a party shoe that would be more danceable than a stiletto.
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/jeffrey-campbell-regal-mary-jane-pump-women/6948803?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FShoes%2FWomen%27s%2FDress%20Shoes%2FLow%20%281%22%20-%202%22%29&color=837
Anon
I vowed to get a real coat this winter (real = something wool and very nice looking and not just a puffer, for things where a puffer maybe looks a bit too outdoorsy). I looked at some Max Mara coats that looked lovely and . . . I’ve had cars that didn’t cost as much. They are beautiful though. Other places didn’t have coats on sites yet, but would places like Boden or maybe Pendleton be more budget-friendly options that are closer to $400 and under (and not in the thousands of dollars) for a good wool coat (that is mostly wool)?
Betsy
Boden’s “wool” coats last year were mostly polyester, like 20-40% wool. So annoying. I was looking for a wool coat last year with a similar budget and had a tough time finding anything I wanted. I ended up going with a beautiful vintage wool coat that I found on Poshmark for only $100.
Anon
I have a couple Calvin Klein wool coats from Macy’s, under $300. They’ve held up well. One is 6 years old!
anon
I’m finally replacing my CK coat after at least a decade, maybe more. And only because my weight changed, not because it’s out of style.
Anonymous
I like Cinzia Rocca, they are good quality and can be found on sale at your price point. I find Pendleton stiff and itchy.
Anonymous
Cinzia Rocca coats are beautiful!!
Anon
I have two Calvin Klein wool (or mostly wool) coats from Macys. Both were under $200, bought 5-6 years ago. Both are still going very strong. Macys (or a similar department store) will have a TON of selection in the fall. I’ve never even considered buying a coat like this elsewhere!
Anne-on
I’d go and try on a bunch in person at your nearest big retailer and then keep an eye out for sales. Labor day likely won’t have many, but black friday (or early black friday) sales will be your friend. I have a puffer and a wool coat from Soia & Kyo and it is super warm – their black friday sale stacked with a ‘first time buyer’ discount code should be able to get to the $400 price point.
NYCer
+1 to Soia & Kyo.
anon
Where do you live? Sounds like you want style over warmth? I’m in New England and there’s no event that a long “puffer” wouldn’t be appropriate (quotes because there is a style of coat now that doesn’t actually have the ribbed look, like Canada Goose and many others) . That said, if it’s an otherwise sunny, precipitation free cold day, I like a nice coat that’s more style-oriented. I have a lot of luck a Jcrew still, Nordstrom and other just mall-level stores.
Mpls
+1 from Minnesota. That being said, I do have a couple of nice wool coats in my winter rotation. One is a cashmere Ralph Lauren Black Label that I got in a thrift store, and the other was $300-400 range from Nordstrom 3 years ago.
Anon
My fave wool pea coat came from Burlington about 8 years ago. I still get compliments on it every winter.
A
Cinzia rocca?
Anon
Aritzia typically has beautiful coats. I have a lovely wool coat from Vince-above your price point but not as much as MaxMara.
Runcible Spoon
+1 for Aritzia — I recently bought two Cocoon coats, in black and camel, and love them! The second was on deep sale. Other coats are terrific too. Very well-made, menswear-type level of construction, excellent quality.
Anon
Have you checked consignment retailers like The Real Real or Poshmark? You may be able to get a Max Mara coat there for less. I also recommend Vince as a more affordable option.
Anon
I have a wonderful wool coat from 1987. 100% wool. I would look at thrift shops (check carefully for moth damage!) or eBay. I’ve found cashmere and wool overcoats easily at those two options.
Anon 2.0
Absolutely check Poshmark and Ebay for pre-owned coasts, especially if you are leaning towards a more classic style.
Anon
Look at Hobbs London
Beans
Looking for some knowledge on dating post-divorce with kids and what is kind of normal/typical. Have zero idea what usually goes here. Been on 6-7 dates, we text in spurts throughout the day. Updates on work/kids, what’s going on. Initially, there was a lot of texting as we tried to see if there was interest/getting to know each other, but the texting has waned or calmed down a bit. We are both divorced with two kids so it has been hard getting our schedules to work in a way to see each other. Right now, we are maybe going on one date a week or once every two weeks. I know this sounds silly but is this typical? I just don’t know what is normal in terms of frequency. Was married for a long time and never really dated before.
Anon
I am not divorced and I don’t have kids, but I have dated several divorced dads with kids. I would say this frequency tracks with mt experience, but so much depends on custody schedule. I tried to be as flexible as possible, but I am a quality time person so dating a dad who has 40% or more custody can be challenging for me.
But this is not about me! Anywhoodle, I would say your experience is not unusual, but the more important question (cue groans) is if it is working for you.
Anonymous
Nope. Girl you know the answer is there is no normal and it doesn’t matter what other people do, what matters is how you feel about it.
Anon
This. And if you aren’t feeling it, don’t force it. It works the same as before, when you know you know. Doesn’t sound like this one has legs.
Anonymous
It doesn’t sound to me like OP is forcing it or not feeling it. I think OP just sounds a little anxious about a new situation, which I think is totally normal after a long dating hiatus.
Beans
Thank you! I probably didn’t word everything as I should but yes, I am anxious because it has been 20 years since I have dated. I feel ancient (I know I am not) and I just don’t know how things typically work.
Anonymous
What matters is what works for you, not what a bunch of internet strangers think. But if things were going swimmingly then you probably wouldn’t be posting here. What is your actual concern? Do you want more frequent dates but he doesn’t seem to?
I would say around 2-3 months most people want to either spend more time together or break it off. I don’t think waning texting is necessarily a bad sign but I would want to see an expression of interest in some other way. If he’s not making an effort and you haven’t agreed to be exclusive then maybe you should continue to see other people.
Beans
Part of the concern is a crazy ex-husband who interferes but that is another discussion. No, he has dated off and on for several years. I have not. He seems to recognize we both have conflicts with schedules, work, etc which is helpful. I think part of the issue is I really just don’t know what is typical/expected so these comments have been helpful.
Anonymous
I am right there with you! I started dating post divorce in 2021 and it was really hard to adjudicate my post divorce experiences with 1) dating expectations from my 20s/pre-marriage and 2) most of the dating advice out there which is NOT geared to post divorce/parents.
I’ve been dating someone for a year and a half and we still only see each other once a week or once every two weeks. It’s incredibly frustrating at times, but with four kids between us, custody schedules, sports and other commitments, it is what it is. Our kids have met and occasionally we do activities all together, but they are a variety of ages and don’t really want to all hang out together all the time.
We text a couple of times a day…as you said updates on life, kids, what we’re up to…it’s nice to have someone to share the mundane details of my day with. Some days are busier than others and we might only have a quick check-in sometimes.
Previous guys I dated were similar with texting patterns…frequency of dates depended on custody schedules but averaged once every two weeks I’d say.
My best advice is 1) ignore everything you think you knew about dating and go with your gut. If it feels right, it probably is, even if the prevailing advice is that you should see each other more frequently or whatever. 2) learn about your attachment style. I was very anxious and that played a huge role in the destruction of my first couple of brief post-divorce relationships. I have been working on becoming more secure, which I believe has been critical to the relative longevity of my current relationship.
I wish you the best of luck. Post-divorce dating is exciting and scary and rewarding and frustrating. Take it slow and have fun!
Beans
This makes me feel a lot better. 4 kids between us as well, joint custody, and demanding jobs. The attachment style is a good point as I am probably also anxious. So trying to tread carefully and not destroy this new relationship as I do enjoy it!
Cat
I mean most couples I know that are married with 2 kids go out by themselves like once a month maybe so it doesn’t seem weird to me that it would be more than double the logistics when you’re talking about 2 sets of 2 kids and coordinating 2 household schedules (maybe 4 schedules if the other parent would need to be picking up the kids at that time?) to go out. But are you feeling like he’s just not that into you? Is he way more likely than you are to have a schedule issue? The waning texting doesn’t feel weird to me on its own since you can’t keep up that intensity forever but don’t ignore your vibes if you’re not feeling appropriately prioritized.
Anonymous
Not exactly what you ask for but this lady focus her training in people in your situation. Just in case you want to check her web. https://kellybrandli.com/
Anon
Did you meet on an app? If he’s still on the app he’s seeing picks for him all the time and in my experience, a lot of men want to check out every available woman on earth to make sure they’re getting the best one.
I am divorced and remarried and met my now-husband on the apps, but a long time ago, so I have been there.
Keep it moving.
Anon
I have a gardening question (yes, THAT kind of gardening. I feel crass writing this so feel free to skip if uninterested.).
I gardened over the weekend for the first time in almost 4 years. Well, I attempted to garden. I was so tight that it couldn’t happen. I was embarrassed, although the guy was gracious about it. Is there anything I can do to, um, have this not happen again?
As a separate problem, I found out from the doctor recently that I have a tilted cervix/uterus. The other night, it was like it went in a couple inches and then hit a wall. The tightness was one thing and then the wall was another. It was painful. I’m actually still sore days later. This was a problem in my last relationship, albeit I didn’t know I was tilted at the time and just gave up on gardening. I don’t want to give up on relationships/gardening forever though. Has anyone dealt with these problems before? What did you do?
Anon
Pelvic floor physical therapy may be worth your while. Many people have overly tight pelvic floors and a PT can help teach you how to relax it. They can also help you figure out what else might be going on if that’s not it.
Anon
Pelvic floor physiotherapy, sooner rather than later. It isn’t just for postpartum moms.
Your muscles are reacting to a perceived threat – the pain of penetration – by seizing up. PFPT will help the muscles to relax. It’s a really difficult PT – she will probably have to stick her fingers in there – but it works.
Regarding the tilted issue, try a very different angle (spooning works well for some people).
Do NOT do Kegels until instructed to by a PFPT. They can make the problem worse.
Anon
I haven’t encountered this same problem myself, but I was having a problem with painful cramping after gardening. Imaging revealed nothing of concern – no cysts or tumors or anything that would have been causing the problem. Per my gynecologist’s recommendation, I got some pelvic floor physical therapy and the problem went away. I only did three sessions and it still made a huge difference.
If you have a gynecologist you like and trust, take this issue to them. They should have some treatment options for you (like v*ginal dilators) and they should have referrals for you to pelvic PT specialists, possibly a s*x therapist, etc.
Also: if you grew up in a religious, conservative or other background where sex was a hidden, forbidden, or shameful topic, it’s worth talking to a therapist about that as a lot of times, our bodies will hold on to trauma and beliefs we think we’ve gotten over mentally. Bodies and brains are connected, especially when it comes to gardening, and this may not be a wholly physical problem.
FWIW – I also have a tilted uterus and it’s never interfered with gardening, but everyone is different. Get some expert advice from a doctor about what could be going on and then ask directly for help with this. You deserve to have the gardening life you want and you shouldn’t give up on gardening until you’ve thoroughly explored options for solving this issue.
Anonymous
Go to the gyn and get a referral to pelvic PT and also explore small insertable tools to play with on your own!
anon
Start with your gyn and explain what’s going on. Clearly there’s a structural issue happening here. I would start there before advancing to pelvic floor therapy, which may or may not be enough.
Source: Had a structural issue that required surgical intervention. Super embarrassing. But it’s all good now.
Anon
I wouldn’t assume there’s a structural issue if you’ve done it just fine before and you’ve been to a gyn who hasn’t noticed anything abnormal. Going in a few inches and then “hitting a wall” is exactly what happens with tight muscles. But obviously you should rule it out if you haven’t already.
Anon
How can you you definitively say there is a structural issue? Are you a GYN that has examined the OP? Probably not, so you are really not qualified to make any kind of diagnosis.
Anon
I’ve always had issues with this as well, though it was worse at first. First, always use lube. Second, learn to relax your pelvic floor muscles. Pelvic floor PT can be helpful with this if you’re having trouble doing it on your own (I haven’t seen them for this problem, but they were great when I saw them for a separate issue also caused by overly tight pelvic floor muscles).
Anon
Not to put too fine a point on it, but any specific lube recommendations? There are some awful ones out there, so I would appreciate suggestions.
Anon for this
Not linking to avoid mod, but I get this from Amazon: Wet Platinum Silicone Based Lube, 4.2 oz Bottle, Ultra Long Lasting Premium Personal Luxury Lubricant.
Other kinds were getting too sticky if we took a little while doing things. This stuff doesn’t. I am older and lube is a necessity now, and this stuff works well.
Anon
Good clean love on Amazon. I don’t like sticky lube and this one isn’t.
anon
Agree with the other posters. This isn’t a rare problem, actually. There are GYNs that specialize in it. But like perimenopause, it is an area of medicine that even GYNs are often poorly trained in.
But if you like your GYN, start there. Confirm first whether you have an anatomical change that could be contributing and pelvic floor PT sounds like a great idea.
Anonymous
Apart from the GYN stuff, self gardening is a good idea if you’ve not been doing that.
There are loads of suitable tools to use, and for you a modestly sized insertable combined with some external input might be a good idea, to be more geared for pleasure.
If you think the lady insertables look too big, check out the ones for prostates, some of those are great shapewise for G-stim, and a little slimmer.
Water-based l&be as well.
Anon
Tool brand my pelvic floor PT recommended is intimate rose.
Anonymous
Do you use toys? Does this happen when you’re alone? Were you warmed up enough?
I have a low and tilted cervix that makes some positions and angles painful, and it changes throughout my cycle (fun!). The only time I’ve experienced what you’re talking about is when I wasn’t warmed up and the angle was wrong. And then of course you’re nervous and it goes downhill from there. It may be a matter of taking it slow and experimenting, but you should try by yourself first to see what works best for you.
Anon
I’ve often had the same problem with a new partner. Over time, I’ve learned that I do a lot better if I’m on top. The different position and ability to control the speed helps me relax
anon for this
You didn’t mention how old you are. Changes due to age can seriously impact gardening pleasure. “sandpaper s#x” “glass shards” etc are real. HRT plus a wonderful new find for me – google “runi play primer”. Total game changer @ 62.
Anon
OP here. I’m only 30 and this has been a problem for me in the past in my twenties. I did grow up in a religious household as someone mentioned above. Thanks for all the replies. I will look into these options. I have an appointment with my GYN in a few weeks for a separate issue (totally unrelated) and I will ask her then. She’s new to me but I want to get this solved.
Anon
Women in evangelical or religious households who heard the “obligation s-x” message are significantly more likely to suffer from pain than those who did not.
Sunshine
I had a vag cyst in my 20s that made gardening painful. Multiple GYNs couldn’t find anything. I finally saw a female nurse practitioner who seemed to have more time for me and she found the cyst which was a rare type of cyst.
my experience says that if your gyn isn’t helping, try another one. This issue can be addressed. Good luck!
Anon
+1
I was also found to have a cyst, when I finally found a decent GYN who talked to me. She was very surprised no one had ever mentioned it to from previous pelvic exams.
Anon
I looked up runi play primer and I see it has CBD in it. Would this show up on a drug test? I get tested at work.
anon for this
I don’t know – maybe pose the question on their website? All I know is that if I’ve used this primer, lube isn’t necessary. This product turns back the clock by 30 years. And I’m not paid by the company – just a very happy spouse. :)
Anonymous
Foreplay. Much more foreplay.
Prospect Park
Hey all, in October, my partner and I are spending one New York to visit friends on the way to something else. They live near Prospect Park in Brooklyn – any decent hotels I should look at? Aiming to spend around $300 I guess? Partner has never been to NYC and I want him to have a good experience.
anon
Prospect Park is huge and could mean many, many neighborhoods. I’d find out more specifically where they live if you actually want to stay near them.
NYNY
The Ace Hotel in downtown Brooklyn near Barclay’s is convenient for transportation and a hip place. Prices vary a lot, so it may or may not be in range, depending on the night you’ll be there.
Anonymous
Love the Ace in Brooklyn. Enjoy your trip!
DEXA
Osteoporosis runs in my family. i just had my first osteoporosis scan. I thought it would be covered for “free” since it is preventative. But Blue Cross just covered the normal 50%. I am perimenopausal.
Did you get a Dexa in your 40s or 50s? Was it free?
Now I have to get them every 2 years because I have osteopenia (bone thinning is starting), so I’m glad I found out.
Anonymous
I get them every 2 years or so because of BC treatment. Mine aren’t free and I don’t think they count as the “preventative” items that are. They were covered like x-rays or MRIs for me.
Anon
I got my first scan in my early 50s and it was 100% covered except small copay. My medical provider had to submit justification as to why it was necessary (two fractures in one year — neither of which in my doctor’s opinion should have broken, as well as family history). Also glad I did it and started bone building drugs after the scan.
Anonymous
This happened to me. It’s all in the medical code they bill it under. You should check what code the insurance covers 100% and have the hospital billing changed to that code. There are several for bone scan. In the future make sure your doctor uses this code on the prescription.
Anon
https://www.statnews.com/2023/05/15/united-colonoscopy-insurance-cost/
Davis
How much is a Dexa scan? Osteoporosis runs in my family, but I didn’t think about getting a baseline to see how things are earlier. That’s smart!
OP
Honestly it is not very expensive at all, considering all the benefits of having the information. Definitely less than $300 for the scan/doctor fee, and then my insurance paid half. So I was surprised considering how relatively cheap it is that we don’t do them earlier.
My PCP told me that due to my race/body habitus she thought I was higher risk at developing osteoporosis, in addition to my family history. So she was thinking of doing a DEXA within the next few years. But then I saw my new GYN, who specializes in perimenopause. My periods have slowed this year so I may be hitting the “pause”. She wanted to check my DEXA now – before I hit menopause and my hormones drop to nothing – since my bone density will start dropping rapidly once I am in menopause.
So I’m really glad I got the DEXA, and that I know. Most women will not get a DEXA scan until they are in their mid 60s! That’s too late, for many women.
I now will get DEXA scans every two years because I am high risk now. I am careful to include extra vitamin D and calcium with supplements and diet, and am starting more exercise that will improve my bone density. And as soon as my scans show I hit the osteoporosis range, you bet I’m jumping on the medications to maintain my density as long as possible.
I am single and will likely retire alone. I If I break a hip, I guess I’m going to a Nursing home. So I really don’t want to break a hip…. My best protection is making sure I stay healthy/fit, and that my bones are strong enough to tolerate the inevitable fall.
Questions about couple counseling
People are always recommending couples counseling but I am overwhelmed trying to get started. How do you find a good couples counselor? Are there any good virtual ones? Are there certain “types” of counseling methods? How often do people normally go?
Couples counseling isn’t really normalized in our area (unless it’s like, premarital counseling with the church) so I don’t want to ask people we know, and we don’t have general practitioners we can ask for recommendations from. We don’t have any urgent problems, just seeking assistance with normal communication and relationship interaction issues.
anon
Does your company have an EAP? You could start there to get a list of names. You could also check out John Gottman trained counselors.
Anon
Unpopular opinion, but unless you’re married with kids, I think breaking up is the better course. Counseling is just a stop on that path and I’d rather get it over with. If you don’t communicate well, a counselor isn’t going to magically make your relationship work.
Anon
I disagree. If you’re not married and still want to improve the relationship, couples counseling is fine.
Anon
Yeah, I think most people are aware that it’s not magic. I’m not sure you understand what it is if that’s what you think.
Anon
Lol, I absolutely do and went with a few exes. Learned the expensive way it’s just a stop on the way to breakup town. I feel differently if you’re at a deeper, entangled point in a relationship but if you’re relatively new? Just end it and find someone who works for you.
anonshmanon
Marriage and children are not the only markers of a deep relationship. Ignore if you just meant it as a shorthand expression, but there are people who don’t care about the piece of paper, or a religious ceremony, or about kids.
Anon
It was shorthand, see my later “deep entangled” comment.
Anon
If you keep running into the same problem over and over in different relationships, the problem isn’t that somehow, miraculously, everyone you’ve dated has the exact same problem. And it certainly isn’t that counseling can’t or never works. It just never works for you.
Anon
Sigh, nope happily married for over a decade. It was always trying to make things work with the wrong people.
Anon
Terrible advice. My married friends were struggling with a specific disagreement that had infected their whole relationship. Neither one was feeling heard or valued, and they knew their discussions were unproductive. They went to couples counseling a few times, had mediated conversations to work through the disagreement, and learned some effective communication strategies. They’re doing great now.
Anon
I agree “just break up” is terrible advice. My husband and I were nowhere near divorce but were struggling to work through a couple of major issues; our attempts to communicate kept going nowhere. We went to a counselor for 6 sessions; we talked the issues out in front of him and he also taught us some good techniques for clearer communication and for how to make decisions when we were on opposite sides of an issue. It was very helpful. Counseling is not just an “expensive stopover on the way to breakup town” unless someone (cough cough) has already made a decision that they are right about everything and the other person is always wrong and there’s no point in trying to figure it out, because the problem is that their partner won’t just give in and see everything their way. In which case – not surprising that a person like that would have multiple failed relationships.
Anonymous
I think it depends on what the issues are. If you both love and trust each other and want the relationship to work, but have clashing communications styles that lead to both sides feeling hurt, a non-involved person can be a huge help in untangling that and increasing understanding. I do think it has to be combined with individual therapy on both sides.
Anon
+1000 that this is terrible advice. My now husband and I went to therapy after we’d only been dating a year. We were super young (24 and 26) and realized we just didn’t know how to communicate. Therapy taught us the critical skills we needed to be able to fight fair, and to be able to kindly and calmly raise issues before they even got to the fighting stage to help avoid resentment. 7+ years later and we are happily married and barely ever fight, and when we do we fight fair. If your main problem is communicating, I think therapy is a wonderful tool. And as our therapist reminded us several times, 70% of the things couples argue about will be cyclical. So, even if you were to dump your current partner, you’d have a whole new set of issues to argue about with a new partner. You may decide the issues are a dealbreaker, and breaking up is the right decision, but knowing HOW to discuss those issues is a critical skill no matter what relationship you’re in.
Anon
Agree. 4.5 years of marriage and 3 years of unproductive couples counseling (with two different counselors) has shown me that it’s just a good way to waste time and money.
Anonie
Unpopular because it’s highly untrue for most (all?) people. Unless you are a character in a Disney movie, you will sometimes have differences with your partner and you may sometimes need an expert to help you come to a solution.
Op, I think you can just start by reading reviews of marriage therapists’ online and looking closely at their profiles to see if they share your values/belief system. If the first well-reviewed therapist isn’t a good match, try someone else. Best wishes to you from another married person! Sometimes good things take time and effort to become great.
Anonie
Oh and OP, I just realized that your post doesn’t specify whether or not you are married…either way, best wishes!! Hope you have a great experience in counseling.
Elle
Like the person above suggested- we go to a Gottman trained therapist. You can go to the Gottman institutes website and they have a list of certified therapists in your state. We knew we wanted a virtual therapist, so we found one on the other side of our state that offers virtual appointments. I think even if they’re virtual they have to be licensed in your state. We initially went every two weeks but transitioned to once a month. They generally don’t take insurance.
Senior Attorney
I think it’s more a matter of most insurance not covering couples counseling.
Go for it
I recommend reading the book US by Terrence Real for excellent communication scripts, and to find a practitioner whom can teach it to you
Go for it
I recommend reading the books US by Terrence Real. In addition, I would find someone who specializes in that style of communication.
OOO
I found our couples counselor in our area through Google, and then contacted them to confirm that they accepted our health insurance. Though he is local our sessions are virtual, which works well for us bc DH and I work from home
Moving In
Any recommendations to mitigate conflict when moving in together? My lease is up at the end of September, and my SO & I have decided to move in together (yay!). We want to be in his neighborhood long term, so I am moving in to his current place, with plans to stay there together until we buy a place in a few years. However, it’s turned into constant bickering – he has a well decorated apartment and a complete set-up (so no navy sheets + mattress on the floor here), and in order to make room for my stuff and preferences, we predictably need to change things. Throughout this, he hasn’t made a single positive comment about any of the changes (he’ll often argue with me about suggestions I make). I get that it’s a lot of change (and he admittedly doesn’t like change), but I want it to feel like my home as well, which means changing some things to make room for my stuff, taste, and organizational preferences.
Any advice for navigating this change from those who’ve moved into an SO’s existing place versus getting one of their own? Given the deal he has, and the general difficulty of finding what we want in this neighborhood, we want to avoid moving if possible.
Cat
Have you said this to him? I feel like this is the SATC plot where Carrie wants to bring over a bag of toiletries to Big’s apartment and he puts everything in a shopping bag and brings it back. Like – do you actually want me to live here, a person with stuff and preferences, or not?
One way to get him over it could be suggesting you try it your way for a few weeks and then re-evaluate.
Anon
When someone moves in and tells you everything about your apartment needs to change, it’s hard not to feel criticized. I’d do your best to avoid that and give yourselves separate spaces as much as you can at first, rather than coming in and changing all of his stuff. He makes room for your stuff and you organize that space however you want, but leave the rest as is- depending on the size of the place and how much stuff you have, that’s half the bedroom and bathroom. Or one bedroom, some of the living room, etc. Depending on who cooks more, the kitchen can be neutral or one of you can take the lead on organizing there.
Moving In
I think what’s challenging is that requires making changes. For instance, I have a lot of books, so I suggested we order bookshelves for the living room, he didn’t like that / want to move the artwork on the wall.
He has a full apartment working around the amount of storage he has, which means fitting my stuff requires throwing some of his out (I’m getting rid of essentially all of my furniture except my dresser and mattress in order to fit into his place) and adding storage, which means moving things around.
Anon
Perhaps you could say that you feel like he hasn’t been open to suggestions that you have made, so you are asking him for how he would propose to provide you with space for your things and to make you feel like the space is equally yours. I would be specific: books, clothes, shoes, workout equipment, artwork, furniture, etc. Be clear that you are asking for his suggestions to try to move the conversation forward, not that these are the answers.
Anon
Can you put some things in storage rather than throw them out? I’d get a storage unit for 6 months to see how things go.
Cat
+1
Anon
+2. I moved in with my then-fiancé a few years ago and didn’t throw anything out – my mom had quite a bit of storage space in her garage so I put almost everything there. Very glad it was all there when the engagement broke off six months later.
Anon
He can decide what to move or get rid of, but it should be nonnegotiable that he makes room for your stuff somewhere. If he can’t handle that discussion, this move sounds like a bad idea.
Anonymous
It doesn’t seem like there’s much communicating happening. What is his objection to the bookshelves? Does he not want them in the living room or does he not want them period? Where should the books go? Are you trying to display every book you’ve ever owned or are these collectors items or are they books you use regularly? There’s a lot of room for compromise between, we must have tall bookshelves chock full of different sized books looking like the cluttered walls are closing in on you vs no bookshelves ever let’s burn all the books. I’m exaggerating a little bit you get my point, you’re at two extremes but there’s a ton of middle ground that doesn’t seem to be explored.
There’s also something to be said for choosing your battles. If you’re like me and you enjoy having lots of books that you’ll never read again, then put most of the books in storage until you guys have more space. Don’t fight about things that don’t actually impact your life. Go to the mat over closet space by all means.
Anon
Moving in together strictly on his terms is not a great start, as it devalues your position in the relationship. I’d sit down with him and have a conversation on exactly that topic. Given that he seems to be a bit rigid in his thinking, I would also have an extensive and detailed additional conversation about expectations regarding cleanliness, bedtimes, morning routines, pet care if that’s an issue, division of expenses, and division of chores. If he remains “it’s my way” or refuses to have a good faith conversation leading to resolution about these topics I would reconsider moving in together. Hopefully he just needs a mirror held up to his behavior and will be fair going forward.
Relationship Advice
I think that’s what’s hard about this – on those topics, very few issues. For example, we’ve been staying at his place pretty consistently for the last ~7 months or so almost every night and he’s been great at taking an active role in helping with my dog without being asked, we’ve merged our cleaning styles well (I’m messier but more organized, he’s cleaner but less organized), it’s just the idea of changing his apartment layout is creating this tension.
Anon
Yeah, I don’t think this is just about the apartment layout.
Anon
Personally I wouldn’t move in together without knowing you’re in it for the long haul. If he’s clinging to the way his things are, he’s probably not thinking this is long term. When my husband and I moved in together it was a lot of redecorating and merging our things because we were at the start of sharing a life. This sounds like a real estate convenience move. That might be fine for you, but I’d take his behavior as a big red flag if you’re looking for more.
Moving In
I would say we’re in it for the long haul – we’ve had extensive conversations around engagement timelines. If anything, I’ve generally been the one pushing for a longer timeline for an engagement (I’m committed, but also starting a new job soon and want to get comfortable there before having to plan a wedding).
Cat
Just in case you need to hear it from a stranger – you can be engaged for longer than it takes to literally plan the wedding.
Anon
He might be saying the words, but it doesn’t look like his actions are backing it up to me.
Anon
Same, if you’re really starting a life together this is the easy part.
Anon
I’m moving in with my bf in a few months and this would really bother me too! Pre-move, he told me I can go ahead and do whatever I want with the guest bathroom and that’s sort of easing me into his space. Is there a space in your bf house that he doesn’t use as much that you can start with? Of course you don’t want to go into someone’s space and change everything, but at the same time, if he won’t change anything, you’ll always feel like a guest there and not like it’s your place, too. And that won’t work! Is he usually good with compromising on things?
Moving In
Very! He’s just a homebody and really likes his space and hates change.
Anon
What if you picked a space and redecorated it together? Maybe if he’s more involved in the change he won’t find it as difficult?
Anon
“I know you put a lot of work into making this place your own. The decor looks great and you optimized the space to fit your belongings. But this setup no longer works with two people living here. I need space for my books, clothing, and toiletries. What can we move, put into storage, or donate?”
As someone who’s currently cleaning out their closet and bathroom to make space for a boyfriend, I understand why he’s annoyed. It will be inconvenient that his stuff won’t live in the optimal place anymore or the decor he loves will change. But that’s part of moving someone into your home and he needs to accept that reality.
Anon
I moved into DH’s apartment when we first moved in together bc he had an incredible deal on the apartment. we honestly didn’t change too much bc we were on a budget, but I slept there so many nights before moving in and had a key for over a year before that i basically felt like it was part mine already. we had plans to make some changes when we got married, which was about 2 years after we moved in together, but ended up moving to a new city all together. i think this is very very strange. i have another friend who moved into her bf’s apartment and he sounds a bit more like yours and there were some growing pains, but I think you need to have a bigger conversation about this move and explain to him how you’re feeling
anon
Right. I’m curious about what’s motivating them to move in together. Are they starting a new life together? Or is it “well, the lease is up and we’re kinda sorta talking engagement so I guess we’ll live together and see how it goes”?
OP, you may need to have a very blunt conversation with your BF. How does he see you fitting into this move? Merging two households is of course going to require some shuffling around. And I can sympathize, because I’m a lot like your BF and put a lot of time and effort into making a home what I want it to be. But there’s gotta be some give and take. Proceed with caution. Or wait to move in together until you can have a fresh start together.
Moving In
Starting a life together! I mean of course there are logistics at play here, but it’s motivated by a desire to merge our lives.
Anon
You have that desire, doesn’t really sound like he does.
Senior Attorney
Yeah, I’m a little worried about his attitude here. OP, I’m all for the advice above to back off a little (put some of your stuff in off-site storage, for example) and have a heart-to-heart with him asking for his ideas since he doesn’t like any of your ideas. BUT I see some red flags and I urge you not to discount them out of hand.
Senior Attorney
Oops in mod, trying again:
Yeah, I’m a little worried about his attitude here. OP, I’m all for the advice above to back off a little (put some of your stuff in off-s!te storage, for example) and have a heart-to-heart with him asking for his ideas since he doesn’t like any of your ideas. BUT I see some red flags and I urge you not to discount them out of hand.
Panda Bear
I agree with Senior Attorney. When I was getting ready to move in with someone, we had very similar issues to what you are describing. I ignored them because I was just so excited about *finally* moving in and starting a new life together, but it ended up being a huge mistake.
Anon
Don’t move in with this guy.
Anon
This is not helpful or good advice. DH and I had fights the first two years after we moved in together and had a baby. Baby was suprise. Merging lives is not easy, especially now that most people are getting committed when they are much older. We got counseling and learned to negotiate and fight fair. Happily married for 23 years now.
Anon
Merging lives should be easiest at this point and OP’s bf is digging in his heals to make it harder. That’s not a good sign for the future and OP should be really wary.
Anonymous
Is part of his resistance the fact that this is a temporary move until you can find a place together? When my ex moved into my place, he made it very clear that he hated everything about my house and wanted to move ASAP. He also became unhappy that I wasn’t more accommodating about making room for his stuff. I felt like, well if this is temporary then let’s put most of your big stuff in storage and make do with what we have, why are we doing any more moving than necessary when we’re going to do it again so soon? It was a very emotion vs logic argument, and our inability to navigate those kinds of disagreements was a big contributor to the relationship ending.
Moving In
I don’t think so – the timeline for another place is years vs. months, so that doesn’t really make sense. I think the poster above who talked about age is definitely getting at part of the issue – we’re both almost 30 and have lived alone for 4-5 years each, so the logistics of this are surprisingly complicated.
Anonymous
Bickering back and forth about the same thing is a sign that there is some underlying unresolved issue. It seems that you two need a plan about what it looks like for you to move in. I agree with the person above who suggested you ask him what he thinks that looks like.
Anonymous
Gently, the logistics are not very complicated. Two houses, decide how you live in one together.
Anon
At the end of the day, this isn’t just about stuff, it’s about having consideration for your partner. It doesn’t sound like he is considering you right now. He is putting his own wants and comfort above yours, and that’s not okay. If he is truly ready to merge your lives together, he will have to be okay with not always getting everything he wants. It is unfair to expect you to make all the compromises in this situation, but that’s what he is doing. Sure you don’t want to go in changing everything about his place, but it sounds like you’ve proposed some perfectly reasonable things, like book shelves for your books, and he is saying no. That’s not to say he’s a terrible guy, just to say you need to have a serious conversation about this and if he truly is unwilling to budge on simple things to accommodate you and your stuff, I would think very carefully about going ahead with the move.
anon
Not to pile on, when DH (then boyfriend) moved in to my apartment, I was very careful to make sufficient space and de-girly the place. I wanted him to feel like it was his home, too. I mean, I put a lot of effort in to this. His moving in was seamless and we’re married 10 years with 2 kids.
I understand OP’s SO having an initial shock to the adjustment but the overall attitude needs to shift and fast to make this worth it. You are merging lives, not tacking yours on to his where it’s convenient to his. Will you ever feel at home in this apartment? Will you resent him if all of your stuff ends up in storage? Moving in together is tough – some conflict should be expected – but it’s also the easiest place for you all to continue to lay a healthy foundation for the go-forward relationship. This is a big flag that your next move need not be fitting books in his place but a larger discussion about what it means to live together.
Anon
OP, if he really wanted to live with you, he would not be doing this.
Anon
This is succinct but I agree
Anonymous
Has anyone here retired from an intense job in their 40s? We have the financial resources to do it and work is becoming increasingly political and irritating, and combined with a return to office “request“, I am debating whether it’s the right time to pursue something very different. I have an opportunity to do important volunteer work for a nonprofit I’m part of. I am espp interested in how you handled the loss of identity that might come with leaving a “important” career behind.
Anon
I just did the exact thing you’re referring to. I’m in week 2 of new job so….limited advice. I am focusing on the fact that it is awesome I’m exploring something new, and also keeping contacts and staying in associations tied to my former position so that I can transition back if I want to after a few years. I just got to the point where I was unmotivated though hyper successful and knew I’d burn out or just rage quit one day. So far I’m glad I did it!
Anon
No because life is long and your 40s kick off your peak earning years. Unless you’re independently wealthy this is a crazy idea.
Anonymous
We are independently wealthy due to my current job.
Anon
That’s not what independently wealthy means!
Anonymous
We have in the high seven figures. We have lived prudently, and we’ve had a high income. I can withdraw 4% for life from this balance for the next 50 years and not use it all up, and yes, I am aware of what healthcare costs could be. P I’m not sure it matters whether we are independently, wealthy, or not given all of that, but sure, choose to push back on that phrase.
Anon
I’m just saying that if your wealth depends on your job, it’s not independent.
Anon
But it might no longer depend on her job. I think that’s what she’s saying. She has enough to live without paid employment from now on. If Jeff B left Amazon and never worked again, I don’t think anyone would balk at calling him independently wealthy. This is the same thing, but on a smaller scale of course.
Anon
Yeah if she has enough to live on without ever working again, I think “independently wealthy” is accurate. There’s no requirement that you built that wealth without ever working.
Although to me, the “independent” in “independently wealthy” is key, and has more to do with separation from spousal assets. If you divorced and had to split everything 50-50 with your spouse, would you be ok? If not, you should keep working.
Anon
Do it if you can make it work financially! I left my law career at age 31 for a job that pays a lot less and has much better work-life balance. No regrets. I didn’t really struggle with loss of identity, but I’m not someone who ever really identified closely with being a lawyer or a “big career” person.
However, I would never describe myself as retired because I work full-time and am adding to my retirement savings, not depleting them. To me retired means not working or working very part-time and living off savings.
Anonymous
I mean, I quit my job and opened a co silting practice in my late 30s. Best decision ever. 2/3 the income, 40% the stress/work.
anon
I would be looking for a different, less stressful job. Not retiring altogether in my 40s. That is a potentially long time to be without an income.
Anonymous
Congrats on being rich I guess
Anon
How much are we talking about when you say you have the financial resources to do so?
Anon
Yes, I left my incredibly stressful job, for another much less intense, although still stressful one that allowed more time for sleep.
It was very, very difficult to deal with how I saw myself and even how other people see me. Yes, people in my prior world absolutely judge me. Some try to smile and be like… “wow… must be nice”.
But I have turned into a different, healthier, more balanced person. I actually am much less interested in those people who still judge me. We really have very different values now.
Anon
If we could afford it I would quit my job tomorrow and go do independent consulting and work part-time for a friend who runs a nonprofit. But we need really good health insurance (what’s available on the exchange won’t cut it) and we also don’t have quite enough money to make my dream financially viable long-term. If you do have enough, then cut and run! You are not your job, and every retired person I know – even if they go through a tough transition period after stopping work – has told me that life is amazingly good on the other side. Most retired people I know, of any age, say they wish they had learned about not centering your life around work much earlier in their lives.
We only have a finite number of days on this Earth, and none of us know when our time will be up. Do what you can do to make your time happy and fulfilling.
anon a mouse
A family member did this and is on the board of two nonprofits that are near and dear to her heart. Obviously some of us understand that she struck it rick from an IPO, but also, she’s spending her time on something she loves after many years toiling nights and weekends for something she didn’t.
I think that people will respond to how you frame it, so think about your communication. You can make it clear that you have a background in X, but you had this great opportunity and were fortunate that it works for your family. And then talk about something that specifically excites you. Congrats on making it to a place where this is an option!
Senior Attorney
I didn’t retire, but I left my MidLaw partnership in my 40s to go into government work, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. It was a big pay cut at first but it led to a whole new (much less stressful) career, the income increased over time, and now I’m 39 days from retiring with a sweet pension and retirement health benefits. I won’t lie, sometimes I think about the Big Career that might have been, but I often say I have the best job in the world and all I had to give up was my pride! For me the trade off was well worth it.
Anon
I did this. I left a job that I had loved, but it became unbearable after my boss made a mistake in hiring an extremely difficult employee a few months before the pandemic started. I stuck it out for another 18 months, then left after we were acquired and I could cash out my shares. I was 45 at the time. My partner and I are financially independent with a low 8-figure net worth and frugal habits when it comes to travel, cars, dining out, shopping, school choice, and so on.
I originally told myself that I’d take off 6 months and then jump back in. That was two years ago, and I’m only just now narrowing in on what I want to do next. I’ve loved having this time to be non employed and am grateful literally every day that we are in a position that allows me this. We have two elementary school children, and it has been really meaningful for me to be a bigger part of their lives than when I was working a Big Job. I’ve done a lot of volunteer work. I’ve taken classes, advanced my second-language fluency, and am currently completing a certificate program to help me segue to my next thing. I sleep well and exercise regularly. I worked a part-time (12 hrs/week) position with kids in high-risk situations. I read like a fiend. It’s been so gratifying.
As far as the loss of identity, I mostly just got over it. One of the best things about aging is not caring about how I’m perceived as much as I used to. I honestly believe that the way I spend my time is worthwhile and that I’m more than a CV. I also cultivate relationships with older people, which gives me a healthy perspective on how many phases or paths one person can travel in a lifetime. Highly recommend Sari Botton’s newsletter, “Oldster”, for more stories in this vein.
If you want to chat more, feel free to post a burner email. I agonized over these decisions, and I’m so glad that I jumped when I did.
anon
Hi 12:52 Anon, I’d love to chat with you further! My email is crettegal at the service that Google provides.
Anonymous
Before you do anything do a post-nup to agree to possible divorce agreements with your husband/partner. Would they continue working? You might also want to look into a trust – I think there are some that can insulate assets from liability/high medical bills? Not sure on that one.
I left an intense job for a much more flexible job, so my situation is different – I’ve continued to be a high earner but people have very little respect for my job. It can be really hard, to be honest, and I often identify myself to new people or on forms as a [former job]/[broad description of current job] to get some of the previous respect.
Anonymous
I left being a partner at a big 4 to work in public sector in my 4os. Took a huge pay cut. It was the right decision for me. I’m single, so had to think hard about the financial side, but it has worked out.
ANon
does anyone have a rec for storage containers that help keep produce fresh for longer? there are too many choices on the internet
Anon
What kind of produce are you trying to keep fresh? Different fruits and veggies need different conditions for longevity, so there is not a magic container that will work for all of them. Some need to be in a sealed container and refrigerated (leafy greens), some do best kept at room temp in a breathable setting (tomatoes), some need cool dark storage (potatoes), some need their cut ends plunked in a glass of fresh water out of direct sun (basil), etc.
Anon
Is Athletic Greens just an influencer thing or does anyone drink it daily and if so, what benefits have you noticed?
Anonymous
My doctor said it’s a gimmick. Just each actual greens.
bird in flight
DH drinks it daily and I think it’s pretty great for him because he just does not eat very many vegetables. Yes, eating his vitamins would be better but that’s not happening.
I will drink it occasionally when I feel like my diet is lacking green things. I don’t mind the taste but it’s annoying to me that the powder does not really dissolve. I have to drink it fast through a straw.
Anonymous
When I want to drink greens I throw some frozen spinach in my smoothie.
Anon
I’ve never used it, but a friend of mine (used to run marathons, still seems decently fit?) drinks it most days. TBH I prefer eating my veggies (I need the fiber!).
My nutritionist frames things in a very helpful way for me. I tend to be an all or nothing person and she reminds me that food is a continuum. Eating actual vegetables is better than AG which is better than nothing green. So, I think AG is probably a decent option if you’re in a stage which makes it difficult to eat vegetables or if you’re able to get 1-2 servings but not all 5. If you’re able to eat a decent about of veggies, then I don’t think there’s any need for AG.
It’s like how I try to eat a balanced breakfast (usually a quiche with cheese and lots of veggies, a handful of berries, and maybe some whole wheat toast). On days I can’t do that I do a smoothie with lots off fruit, some veggies, yogurt, and protein powder. On days I can’t do that, I do a cup of greek yogurt (but AG would be a good option on days like this too). And, on days I can’t do that, I grab a pastry at the coffee shop.
Anon
Do y’all have a mat or something that you put in front of your toilet? I think I need some type of stone mat or other easily cleanable mat – my toddlers often miss the toilet. TIA! Will post on the moms site too but thought y’all would have good ideas.
Lily
Why would a mat solve this issue? If they’re peeing on the floor, better to just wipe it up off the floor rather than have it sit on a mat or have to pick up the mat and clean it.
Cat
Sorry but how would this help? Either way you have urine that needs cleaning up and I’d just as soon spray some Lysol on the tile and get rid of it rather than having to deal with a mat?
Anon
I am embarrassed to admit this but it has been going on for a while and the tile is a bit stained so I need to cover it up.
Anon
Try barkeepers friend on the tile, it’s pretty magical.
Anon OP
Thank you! I will get some!
Anon
Given the reason you need the mat I would go with a bath mat that you can wash in your washing machine (as opposed to “washable” but is so bulky it has to go in a commercial machine.)
Anon
I would get several washable mats that you can cycle through and immediately wash with some oxyclean when one gets dirty. I did something similar when my dog was potty training and kept going on the bathmat.
Anonymous
I actually took the mat away from this problem. Much easier to clean up messes on tile than to wash a mat.
anon a mouse
We have white bathmats in front of the sink, shower, and toilet. Once a week they are washed with bleach.
CreditRisk
I made my son sit his rear end down. His future roommates will thank me. Life is too short for pee on the floor. Now, my ex husband said I was controlling but it was his mother who told me she made her son sit down.
go for it
Oh yes, have been there. Agree with the barkeepers friend…and…teach them to sit & hold their parts down when they go. Eventually I had the one who could.not.aim clean the bathroom floor every.single.day. until the pattern resolved.
Yes, 2 years and up is old enough to use a clorox wipe on the floor.
Anom
Holding your parts down works for little girls too. My 8 yo girl started doing it a few years ago after observing daddy and it helped a LOT. I think she presses down a little on/above her p*bic bone.
Anonymous
+1 Anyone old enough to be standing to pee is old enough to be cleaning up all of their misses. I had an ‘aim properly or sit down’ rule coupled with the one who made the mess having to clean it up, and didn’t have the pee on the floor problem very long, lol.
AnonAnon
Thank you all for the responses to my Friday post regarding proving my innocence.
You have given me several ideas on how to approach the conversation to shut it down.
I think I know what I “should” do, but it is so hard after so many years.
I know I would be fine on my own, but the thought of how the kids would take it along with potentially losing friend relationships that I have just recently started to establish is just so hard to imagine.
Anecdata from your lives would be appreciated. How do I get through it if that is the route I decide to take?
Anon
Kids should be a reason to leave, not a barrier. Kids see what is going on. It’s not healthy to normalize bad treatment by their dad. I was so relieved when my mom finally left my dad, who was verbally abusive. I was a teen, and my younger siblings were afraid of him. Also, there’s a reason DV is cyclical, with many boys who witness learning that behavior and going on to perpetrate it as an adult.
Anon
+1
Anne-on
A big +1 to this. I would also heavily encourage you to reach out to DV hotlines through an untraceable phone (work phone? call from a library?) to ask for their help and assistance on safety and next steps. I’m sorry you’re experiencing this and I promise that any true friends will be horrified and want to support you.
Anon
+10
You are doing your children a huge favor. They will model everything in life based on what they see growing up. The impact is often insurmountable.
The time is now.
Anon
Staying ensures that your trauma and dysfunction will be passed on to your children and, maybe grandchildren. Here is anecdata for you. My client was on death row for shooting his girlfriend and killing her dad. He and his siblings learned how to behave from their parents. Client’s sister told me she didn’t know that the abuse wasn’t normal until she went to prison for her role in drug trafficking with her abusive boyfriend. It was in prison that she learned about the battered woman cycle and she is dedicated to teaching/modeling something different for her daughter. Even if your husband is not hitting you, he is an abuser.
Senior Attorney
You get through it one day at a time. Not gonna lie — it’s hard and it’s sad. I literally work up weeping every morning for months, even though I was 100% sure I was doing the right thing. But I kept tellng myself, “the only way out is through,” and “this time next year everything will be so much better.” And I was right on both counts! (Also I kept reminding myself of the two times I tried to leave and then went back, and I kept reminding myself “don’t ever again be in the place where you’re thinking ‘if I hadn’t gone back, it would be over and I’d be free and clear by now!'”)
Real friends will stick by you, and there are new friends out here on the other side, just waiting for you to find them.
Also I agree with everything everyone else has said about the kids — right now you and your husband are modeling the worst-case marriage scenario. That’s not what you want to teach them!!
Anon
Going through this right now, and was so upset thinking about the kids and how my social life would change, it took me a lot of years to leave. However, it’s now almost a year after I left and the kids took it better than I ever expected and seem to be doing fine. I have had a lot of age appropriate conversations with them so I really do think they are doing fine.
The friends situation is hard too, but since I was the organizer of the social calendar anyway, I am able to keep seeing certain friends, so that is not as bad as I thought it would be either.
You need to do this.
Anonymous
Thanks for this. The biggest issue on the friends front is that all of my friends are from his friends, wives of his friends or have developed through groups he leads at our church. I realize now how isolated I have become over the years. They all know and love him, so most likely will not be supportive of me and will have a hard time believing he could do anything wrong.
Anon
You will find your people!
Anon
Gently OP this means they are not your friends (they are his friends). Friends can be made in any season of life. You have a whole new chapter waiting for you, one where you can find your community
Anon
I really recommend considering leaving this church. It will be easier for you.
Anon
+1
Anon
I would absolutely be friends with a woman from church who left her spouse. Find a different church, a healthier friend group, and leave.
Don’t stay in a permanently bad situation to avoid the temporary problems of making new friends.
Anonymous
If you are the church jeans poster, get out immediately.
Anonymous
At the very end of my terrible marriage, my ex would start asking me to prove innocence – would question who I was having lunch with (I would show him text messages from a girlfriend “proving” I went to lunch), he would question why I turned into our driveway from one direction vs the other, etc. He was a serial cheater, abusive, and I am still convinced some of the books I have read about divorcing a narcissist had to have interviewed him – there was so much spot on in those books.
We divorced over 7 years ago. I was similar to you in that a lot of social activities revolved around “his” crowd. We had a 4 year old child at the time. I was petrified of not having friends, worrying what “people” would think, etc. You know what? Some friends I have never seen again. Good riddance. A couple told me what a jerk they knew he was. He brought a whole gang of people (male friends) to our divorce hearings. It was painful and I am sure there were all sorts of malicious lies spread about me during the process. My friends (mostly older friends from high school/college etc) were 100% on my side and I couldn’t have done it with out them and the support of my family.
But. Within months after separating, I started to meet people. When I had time away from my child (hated hated it, but didn’t have a choice), I had time to meet new people – I found meeting single friends was a good way to have a new social life – when I wasn’t with my kiddo, I didn’t really want to be hanging out as a plus one with other people’s families. Find a new church or activity that you can get involved with. Whatever you can do to find a new group of people. I also found when going through a divorce that a lot of people I casually knew would admit that they had been divorced/married a divorced person/been through abusive situations. Your world will shrink and expand.
I’m now happily remarried with a toddler. The drama with the ex is not over. I am counting down to my daughter’s 18th birthday. But, I no longer have to cover up holes in the drywall that he destroyed, I no longer have to lock myself in a room to protect myself, I no longer get lied to by my spouse. I hate having to share custody with essentially my ex MIL and one of his affair partners. But it really is better.
The other side is greener. Lawyer up. Find someone who knows about high conflict divorces. Look up Tina Swithin and Karyl McBride books.
Good luck.
Anonymous
I wrote a long reply that didn’t post and don’t have time to repost.
Advice: Read Tina Swithin and Karyl McBride books. And leave him.
Anon
You need to gather all of your financial documents. Have account numbers and passwords, and printed recent statements.
Go see an attorney. You can probably see one to get an estimate without paying right now.
You need to get out. Remember the advice you got here and know that in a year, you’ll be thanking all of us.
Senior Attorney
And if you don’t leave now, in a year you’ll be wishing you had! (Ask me how I know…)
Anon
I assume many of you know this, but both Target and Walmart have school supply list assist features where you enter your school name, and it adds all the requisite supplies to your cart. I had visions of shopping in-person with my rising K-er like I used to do with my mom, but time got away from me (school starts Wednesday!) and this feature was SO useful. Target had me select backup options for low stock items, and we got everything we needed in our pickup order.
Anon
Sorry — meant for mom page!
crash
I had an elderly Great Aunt. She lived in the same tiny, cute “retirement” home with my grandfather. She never married/no kids, and lived with her sisters together until they passed. I went to college close by and would visit them. This was a very long time ago.
My Mom was POA for my grandfather and did all of his finances from afar. She would help my Great Aunt too. My Great Aunt also had a local lawyer, who helped several of the elderly in their small community.
My grandfather died. It was a shocking sudden event, that I witnessed because I was visiting that weekend. My mother was devastated… And then my Great Aunt died soon after. It was a very stressful time for my Mom. She was executor for my grandfather, and my Great Aunt’s lawyer was executor for her Trust.
I don’t remember exactly when (a few years later?)… my Mom told me an unsettling story. She said that when my Great Aunt died, she was surprised to hear that after expenses, there was nothing left in the Trust. But my Mom had been helping with my Great Aunt’s finances for years, and knew she had a substantial amount of money. Much more than my grandfather. Great Aunt’s father had owned real estate, and supported all of his daughters well their entire lives, and Great Aunt inherited all the real estate. And now… everything was gone. Exactly when she died.
My Mom was very kind, and trusting…. but smart. She asked immediately for the detailed records of the Trust. Records of the lawyer’s fees, payments from the trust etc. Maybe she had a right to see these as the beneficiary? But the lawyer never sent them. He never responded to her letters. He never returned her calls.
I was young, I didn’t really understand, but could see how upset my Mom was. She told me there had be whispers about this lawyer in the past, but the elderly all loved him and he was considered a “pillar of the community”. I actually think he went into politics.
So now…. decades later. I get this letter. From a random lawyer…. who says she used to work at a firm years ago with Great Aunt’s lawyer. And the wording of the letter is so, so odd. Some Bonds were found of my Great Aunt’s in the possession of a “financial advisor”….. a small balance in the Trust was found in Great Aunt’s lawyer’s records….. But no real explanation. This was like 25 years ago. The amounts are very modest. And I think my Great Aunt’s lawyer is long dead.
Now the monies are being dispersed. They want addresses for all of the beneficiaries. My Mom died many years ago too, sadly.
Part of me is extremely curious. I asked the lawyer/writer of the letter to call me today, after she was trying to communicate only by email.
Do I have the right to ask her what happened?
Although I am sure they have been destroyed years ago, do I have the right as beneficiary to ask for the records for my Great Aunt’s Trust administration, if they still exist?
What would you ask this lawyer, if you were me?
My brothers/cousins are all very curious, but the money is not life changing for us. I am not going to hire a lawyer or anything to pursue this.
Anon
There’s a lot of red flags here. It definitely seems possible this attorney added himself to your great aunt’s accounts and drained them. My local DA’s office recently set up an elder abuse department due to the proliferation of scams targeting them. At a minimum, I would ask for all the things-what happened, accounting records, etc. Are you even sure this person reaching out is legit, if they won’t take a phone call? I would also consider calling your DA or LE. It’s not about the money, it’s the principle. Even if the offending attorney is dead, raising this issue could help prevent others from being scammed and taken advantage of.
crash
Thanks.for your thoughts. The new lawyer contacted us by mail last week. She agreed to call me in 2 hours. I just wasn’t sure if I had the legal right to ask to see records. And if she just says everyone is now dead, no records exist (what I anticipate) if I just have to believe her…. although it ma
y very well be true. Wouldn’t a corrupt lawyer just destroy everything? Or if you are Trustee, are you required to file a record with the state of all of your administration somewhere?
anonshmanon
I wouldn’t hesitate to ask anything you want – it’s on the lawyer not to answer your question if there is anything you aren’t entitled to know!
Anon
It does sound like there was a mess back in the day.
Why do you think this new lawyer is squirrely? Are they trying to get you to pay something up front in order to receive the distribution? Are they trying to steal your identity or get you to sign and agree to things you don’t understand?
Even if you aren’t legally entitled to information, asking is not illegal. Do you have your own lawyer who can run point on this for you?
Anon
The reason I was suspicious is that the letter was written in a weird way, explaining that multiple mistakes appear to have been made, but evading using the word error/late or anything negative, with no clear explanations.
The letterhead looked legit and I looked online and the small law firm now writing me exists.
Nothing suspicious on my end about them wanting to steal anything from me. The details that they know about my family/Aunt make it pretty clear they know quite a bit, and my cousins received a similar communication.
Anon
One concern is that they might disperse what is left and do so in a way that prevents you from suing the estate of the original lawyer or from suing his firm. Depending on your state and the statute of limitations for fraud (often starts when the fraud is discovered), you may actually have a case against the firm, not just the long dead attorney.
Go to the probate court and find the name of the attorney who handled the estate. They have this information. Look him up – is he dead? Alive? Look up the firm. Did it get bought out by another firm and that’s why this new lawyer was tasked with dispersing funds? The new law firm would also have bought the liability from the previous firm (usually).
OP
Thanks for sharing this.
I live on the other side of the country. I’ll see if I can dig anything up remotely.
Original lawyer is dead.
New lawyer who contacted me was involved briefly when bonds were found, and worked at Original lawyer’s firm when Original lawyer was still alive.
New lawyer is now at different firm for many years, but I believe now assisting because her name is linked to the most recent Trust transactions via the Bonds.
We’ll see what she sends to me.
Anon
So an update.
I spoke with the New lawyer.
She gave me the history of what happened, while glossing over some of the details/dates/specifics until I asked for them. She basically admitted that multiple people appear to have been disorganized and forgetful. The financial advisor. Great Aunt’s lawyer, who is now dead. And New lawyer talking to me right now! Bonds were discovered~ 20 years ago, slowly “gathered”, put into an account, “forgotten” about. Now a lawyer was retiring, cleaning up records/old accounts, and said…. “What is this…?”
She was apologetic, and a little embarrassed, and tried to take responsibility. Turns out she had actually been involved with the gathering of the bonds and worked with Great Aunt’s lawyer some years ago, before he died.
I told her that my mother had asked Great Aunt’s lawyer-now-dead to mail her the trust details and administrative details years ago, and nothing was ever sent. The New lawyer then revealed that during those days, Great Aunt’s lawyer was “impeccably honest…. normally well organized”, but he had personal stressors… his wife was going through cancer treatments. He also was starting to decline some, dementia… I actually remember him as being “old”.
So I asked her to send me “the File” that they said they “discovered” and any info re: the Trust. She was surprised but didn’t say no. I was pretty nice about it and thanked her many times for contacting us and following through. I’m curious what she will send.
FYI – I looked online for the information from her state on financial elder abuse, and called for basic information. You could only leave a message. Someone called me back while I was on the phone with the New lawyer. The elder abuse person said they do not pursue any case if the person abused is no longer living.
OP
I’m the OP, obvi
Anon
She worked on this at the time? She was licensed? Talk to the bar in her state, where this was probated.
Kelsey
If your skin is fine with either mineral or chemical sunscreens, then which one do you use? I’m reading conflicting reports on which one is better at protecting skin from sun damage.
Anonymous
They are both great at protecting from the sun. Use what you like more.
Anon
Mineral
Anonymous
My favorite sunscreen combined both, but it was discontinued. I now use a chemical sunscreen (Sun Bum) because mineral-only sunscreens don’t seem to protect me against sunburn.
Anon
I think they may have stopped recommending combination products unfortunately.
OP
Really? Is there supposed to be an interaction?
My dermatologist actually recommended UltraMD – one that is specifically a mix of both types of sunscreens, which she described as a plus.
Anon
Yes, apparently there’s an interaction where the minerals interferes with the efficacy of the chemical sunscreen which makes it not effective for as long? Maybe not an issue for someone who reapplies as often as recommended! I sure don’t.
Anon
I think modern products should all be broad spectrum (there was a problem in the past where some chemical sunscreens were not). It will say “broad spectrum” on the label.
FDA has been a bit cagey about sunscreens, saying that you should definitely keep using them because it’s safer to use them than not, but they’re also going to keep studying whether they meet precautionary requirements (e.g. https://www.fda.gov/news-events/fda-voices/shedding-more-light-sunscreen-absorption).
Anon
I use chemical – the Neutrogena breakout free SPF 50 (broad spectrum). It made me greasy for a few weeks then my skin adjusted. I started wearing it daily in college and at age 30 I have zero fine lines, while my friends do. So apparently it works!
Anonymous
Korean or Japanese chemical sunscreens (although they do make hybrid ones)! Look at fiddysnails on IG for her sunscreen reviews.
Anon
+1
anon2
mineral
Anon
I have sensitive skin and supposedly mineral sunscreens are better for sensitive, rosacea prone skin like mine. However, I have had several allergic reactions to various sunscreens, and the only thing that they all have in common is that they’re mineral sunscreens.
So now I’m happily using asian chemical sunscreens and have zero plans to try mineral sunscreens again. I follow fiddysnails on IG & just use her recommendatinons. My 58 year old skin looks better than ever!
Anon
PS Lab Muffin is an excellent follow on IG too, and has recently debunked a lot of myths about chemical vs physical sunscreens. Definitely check her out. Full handle is at labmuffinbeautyscience, she’s Dr Michelle Wong, a skincare scientist.
DC hotel and food?
We’re planning on going to DC in early October to visit some museums and generally be tourists. What hotel would you recommend that is close to a Metro stop and in the $200-300 a night range?
Also, any favorite not-too-formal good restaurant recommendations for dinner?
We’re flying into Dulles and won’t have a car.
Anon
Eaton and The Line are fabulous
joan wilder
The Line is not at all close to a Metro stop. I like the hotels at the Wharf, as well as the Hotel Monaco near the Smithsonian Portrait Gallery.
DC hotel
I don’t have a specific recommendation and I’m not sure about the budget, but since you’re flying into Dulles I would suggest something on the orange/silver line between Ballston and Rosslyn. Any further out and you’ll be spending more time commuting downtown to sightsee every day. You can take the metro (silver line) to the hotel from Dulles. Doing a google maps search for hotels a few block radius around each metro station should work. If you don’t have it, the metro map is at wmata.com.
Anon
I enjoyed the Dupont Circle Hotel when I stayed a few years ago, and it is very centrally located and next to the Dupont Circle stop.
Runcible Spoon
You might like to look at the Residence Inn Rosslyn or Courthouse; the Westin Arlington; or the Courtyard Dunn Loring — all Marriott properties that are extremely close to the Metro.
Or the following Hilton properties, all very close to the Metro: Hilton Garden Inn Downtown; Hilton Garden Inn Arlington/Courthouse; Hilton Arlington.
Do NOT stay on New York Avenue, NE, nor in Crystal City or Alexandria (that would mean changing from the Silver Line to the Blue Line from Dulles and vice versa on the way back, if you take Metro to and from Dulles). If you stay at Tyson’s, make sure you don’t have to rely on a shuttle to get to and from the Metro — some of the hotels in the Tysons area are deceptively isolated.
Anonymous
So, there was lots of talk last week about college savings. I think most people can agree that (1) college currently costs a lot of money; (2) college costs seem to be continually rising, not staying steady or falling and (3) people generally don’t like having student loans if at all possible. My child, if he were to follow a typical American education path, would enter college in fall of 2037. When discussing saving for college with our financial advisor when I was pregnant, he used the private, 4-year college where DH and I met as the basis for what college costs would be for our child, and made the assumption that college costs would continue to increase at the same rate as they have been. Based on these assumptions, if our child were to enroll at this same school, tuition, room and board would cost about $175,000 per year in 2037, and then rise each year for the four years our child is in attendance. That is a c r a p ton of money. We have the ability to save a lot of money right now to be able to fund this (after saving for retirement, etc.), but I know that’s not everyone’s situation (and saving for college/the approach to saving is a personal decision). [and we’re not saving all in a 529 account, it’s a mix so that if our kid decides to not go to college the money can be used for other things]. The current and rising cost of education is a significant factor in our decision to be one and done.
I am curious, especially since I know there are at least a few regular posters on this board that work in higher ed….. what do you think college is actually going to look like in 15+ years? I have read some articles about it, but am genuinely curious what other people think. It seems hard to believe that we’re going to have a lot of 22 year old’s walking around with $300,000-$700,000 plus of debt from just undergrad. I can’t imagine wages will keep up with these costs, making it seem like college isn’t worthwhile at all. I say all this with the caveats that state schools are an option; you don’t have to go to college at all; one could go to community college or community college then transfer; or other options I haven’t listed or I’m just not even aware of at this time.
I’m not at all saying that what we are doing is the “correct” decision. I’ve read various articles on costs of college, etc., but I am really just posting because I am curious what other smart women out there think it’s going to look like.
Anokha
I’m assuming it’s going to be over $500K/kid by mid 2030s, assuming that they go to private 4-year colleges.
Anon
Following because I’m in a similar boat. My two kids, if following the traditional path, would also go to college in the 2030s and our in-state public 4-year school estimate is about $500K for both of them to go. That just feels so astronomically out of reach, and wildly dumb to take on $200K of debt for what, $70K annual salary at best? Even if we could save that amount of money for both of them, I’m not sure I’d want it all to go to college. If we’re lucky enough to have that, I would love to have down payments for first houses or “start your adult life” emergency funds or whatever.
But what in the world are people planning for? I get the value of a 4-year college but will community/ trade colleges be more “acceptable”? Are kids just going to walk around with mountains of debt like you said? I don’t know what reality really looks like for 10 years from now.
Anonymous
OP here – yeah, we have the savings distributed over a few accounts so that if they want to go to trade school or not go to college, the savings aren’t all tied up in a 529 account and could be down payment/emergency funds. And with recent ish changes, some amount of the 529 can be rolled over to a Roth IRA.
Anon
The college age population will decrease significantly over the next few decades and a lot of colleges will close, merge, or struggle to stay open. At the schools that do survive, relatively few students pay full tuition, even now, whether through federal aid or school aid. There’s so much talk about how competitive admissions are at a few schools, but the reality of the higher education landscape over the next few decades is going to be a few schools where everyone wants to go and a lot of other schools (public and private) struggling to stay open. We absolutely need to figure out a better way to finance education, at both the state and federal level.
Anon
This is the correct answer. Not enough babies have been born since 2008 – and especially not since 2016 – and so some private colleges are going to have to get competitive, price-wise, with less-expensive options because a lot of institutions are going to be competing for a smaller number of students than in the past. If OP is talking about Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, etc. – those places will always be able to charge whatever they want. A lot of SLACs are going to have to completely change their business model, or close. A lot will close. A lot of smaller state schools will close, so resources can be redirected to larger state colleges and universities. Outside of the Ivies and high-demand schools, I wouldn’t be surprised to see prices go down over the next 15 years. I also think free college, which is gaining traction in some areas, will be more of a thing and that will also drive prices downward. Kids are now being strongly counseled against student loans – my son has been hearing about it since 9th grade. So there will be less and less demand for the high-priced boutique education that requires loans to complete. Why take out $150k in loans for a bachelor’s degree when your local State U can offer you the same degree at a price of “almost free”? This is very much the conversation my kid and his friends are having right now; SLACs and boutique colleges, be warned.
My son is graduating this year. When we started saving for his college, they told us that if we wanted to cover full freight for at an Ivy League school in 2024, we needed to save a minimum of $75k for each year he would be in school, which as it turns out, wouldn’t be quite enough for most of the Ivies. We did not do that, and as it turns out, our son has zero interest in going to an Ivy. We will have about $50k saved for him by the time he graduates and that will be enough, along with an academic scholarship and possibly a small athletic scholarship (he’s not in a highly competitive sport) to cover almost all of his costs at State U, which he is excited to attend because A. he’ll get to keep playing his sport and B. that’s where all his bros are going.
I would not, personally, eat beans and rice and sacrifice retirement savings to save $500k for a kid who is just now maybe 2 or 3 years old. You just don’t know what that kid is going to prioritize once they get older. And for those control-freak parents who are going to tell me “well, I can shape their future; if I want them to go to an Ivy, I will make that happen,” all I have to say to that is: AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!! Hilarious. Do come back and let us know how that turns out, I can’t wait to hear.
Anon
Yep. DH is a professor and sees the collapse coming.
Anon
We live in Florida and did the prepaid college fund for our son. He obtained scholarships for boarding and supplies. I would not have encouraged him to go to a private school ever. Of course, I would look into other state schools if he were starting today because freedom.
Colette
Yeah, I don’t know the correct answer, but here is our current approach.
We are prioritizing saving for college up to $100k in 529/UTMAs by the time each kid is 5. Then we are going to pause contributions and cash flow any additional college expenses as needed.
Our kids are 3 and 6 months right now, so will reassess as needed.
Anon
State universities will keep on keeping on. The proportion of funding they get from the legislature will remain flat or steadily decrease and they will make up the difference with private donations, research grants and tuition hikes. Depending on the university, the relative amount of each of these will differ. Additionally, the state universities will break out some amenities that have historically been included in the cost of attendance and make them fee based. Think two-tier student recreation opportunities.
Small private colleges with paltry endowments will merge or fold as the number of students who can afford to attend dries up.
Large private universities and SLACs with huge endowments will be fine. They will charge what they want to charge and there will be people who can pay it, even if it’s not you.
Lastly, the experiences on here around college prices, savings and debt are not typical. This place is mostly a bubble of wealthy people who are invested in the educational arms race with their peers and peers’ kids. As long as you give a damn, parent your kids and save what you can, it’ll work out, even if they can’t go to the uber-expensive private university.
Anonymous
Scott Galloway is a professor at NYU that talks about college being ripe for disruption. A link to one article below but he talks about it with some frequency that there are more articles.
My hope is by the time my kid gets there in 2028 there will be some disruption
Financing college is only one part of the equation. Colleges charging so much to begin with is the root problem.
https://www.profgalloway.com/college-town/
Anon
+1. I think there will have to be some sort of major disruption. Like the way that 2008 disrupted the housing market. It’s beyond unsustainable and something massive will have to give.
anon2
+2 we’re saving, but I’m anticipating a major disruption of some kind. Kids are 5 and currently in utero.
bird in flight
+1 Scott Galloway thoughts on this topic. Scott Galloway cohosts one of my favorite podcasts (Pivot) and he had a little rant about higher education sometime in the last few weeks that was one of the most refreshing and smartest takes I’ve heard on the subject.
Anon
My city just made community college free! Advocates in my state are also pushing for free 4-year state colleges/universities. I don’t have kids but think it’s great. Education shouldn’t become a lifelong financial burden or only accessible to the wealthy. It should be an equalizer. I’ll gladly pay taxes to support public higher ed.
Anonymous
I think the current college funding model will fall apart before your kid gets to college. Right now, astronomical tuition costs are being fueled by the easy availability of student loans. Colleges are able to keep jacking up their tuition faster than the rate of inflation because they are able to convince parents and students to keep borrowing to pay for it. Colleges have solved some of the problem at the low- to mid-income range by reducing the amount of loans that are required as part of financial aid packages and by making college free for families with incomes in the five figures and sometimes even in the very low six figures. Eventually upper-middle-class families will rebel against the tyranny of the EFC formulas that assume a family making in the $200-250K range can afford to live on $3,000 a month of take-home pay and spend the rest on college, the whole thing will fall apart, and colleges will be forced to rein in tuition. Legislation restricting the availability of student loans would go a long way, too. Change won’t happen soon enough for my kid, but it might for yours.
Anon
I literally do live on 3000/month take home pay without the 200-250k income and my EFC upon my returning to school was not zero. People who make that much can afford to rein in their lifestyle a bit to pay for college.
Anon
You sound jealous.
It is absolutely not reasonable to expect families to go from living on, let’s say, $8k per month in a HCOL area to living on $3k per month, especially if they have other children and are also being responsible adults and making 401k contributions, and paying for health insurance and making HSA or FSA contributions, and paying their taxes. You’d be amazed, I reckon, at what people making $200-$250k actually take home, if they’re saving at the appropriate level.
If you’ve made choices that have left you feeling that you live in near-poverty, that’s fine. Please acknowledge those are YOUR choices. Not everyone has to be miserable just because you are.
Anon
Never said I was miserable. I’m thrilled to be out of the rat race. I managed to contribute toward education costs, so someone making 10x what I make for dang sure should be able to do the same for their own kids.
Anonymous
Of course someone making $200K can afford to contribute, but not $80K/year.
Anonymous
OP here – thanks for this response. I graduated from college over 15 years ago, and work with people who have kids that are rising juniors and seniors in high school, along with people who’s kids are currently in college, so I’m hearing various accounts of applying for colleges and, it honestly doesn’t sound like all that much has changed from the applicant point of view since I applied to schools, except the cost has nearly doubled. It makes me think not much is going to change in the next 15 years either.
When talking about this with our financial advisor, and in his conversations with other FA’s across the county and at different investment firms, the general sentiment is “something’s going to have to change… because you will have this generation of parents that are still paying THEIR student loans and trying to pay for college. Few will be able to afford that.” I wonder when we’ll reach the actual tipping point.
Anonymous
The tail end of GenX (in other words, my generation) is the first crop of students where the colleges figured out that they could make both the parents and the students pay for college. Before that it was either the parents or the student who paid, but not both. That cohort is now just having kids enter college so I am betting the impact won’t be apparent for a few more years.
Anon
so our kids if life goes according to plan would enter college at similar timing as to yours. many many many more kids than you think qualify for at least some help at private institutions. then there are some families who can fully afford it, and then there are going to be those who don’t qualify for help, but paying full freight is a huge stretch who might end up with a lot of private loans or needing to make a different choice as to type of school. some colleges will close. college also should not be so insanely expensive – i’ve been doing some reading as to how/why and the articles i’ve read all make sense, but i don’t really know how practical it is to implement the solutions they propose
Anon
I am not saving enough for private university tuition for my kids – I will probably not save more than $100k per kid. I think private colleges are often bad decisions – they’re so expensive, and for what benefit exactly? I don’t think the caliber of education at these schools is that much better and it’s pretty clear that for the most part, the graduates aren’t making significantly more money. Will people be impressed by these students, or will they think they’re chumps? Over the next decade or two I think these schools will begin to struggle to attract students and/or they will become more affordable.
Anonymous
I disagree. I have a bachelor’s degree from a very selective public university. In one of my majors my upper-division courses had 60 students, and many didn’t even have a paper because the professor didn’t want to grade 60 papers, or the papers were graded by graduate reading assistants. Not one professor, including the one who supervised my honors thesis or the ones who worked individually with me for my other major, took an interest in my career development. A few years after I graduated I took undergraduate courses through the postbaccalaureate program at the private college where I worked and the difference was incredible. Lower-division courses had fewer than 30 students, all teaching and grading was done by the professor, and the professors proactively invited students to office hours to talk about individual career progressions. I was aggressive enough to be able to navigate the large university just fine, but most kids are not so equipped. My own kid certainly is not. And I still would have been better off attending a small private school. Unless your kid wants to major in engineering, football, or Greek life, a small school will almost always be a better experience. And there are even some small schools that are great for engineering.
Anon
There is a wide range of very good but not elite smaller private schools, and I would argue that many of these are a better value than many, but certainly not all, public schools. The experiences I had at my Patriot League school have set me up very, very well. The average starting salary from my school is 75k and the average starting salary from our flagship state university is 67k and at a smaller state school the average starting salary is 50k.
In my late 20s, I went to grad school at a local university and my undergrad education was much, much higher caliber than that of my graduate education. The students in my program came from a wide range of public and less selective private universities and I was honestly shocked at the writing, analysis, and research skills these students had. I knew this school was less selective than my undergrad (there was another, more selective, program I was accepted to and preferred but it cost 3x more). The other university is a household name with a great reputation, but the field I’m in isn’t super high paying so paying 6 figures for a masters wasn’t wise for me.
Depending on your income, many private schools’ financial aid packets make private school on-par, if not cheaper than, flagship public schools. It was cheaper for me to go to my school than it was to go to my flagship U thanks to financial aid. In my state less selective public schools are very cheap (like half price of flagship State U), but you 100% get what you pay for. If my kid was thinking about applying to one of those schools, we’d be having some serious conversations; I don’t think it’s worth the 15k a year or so that they charge, they’re that bad.
When hiring and interviewing, I remind myself that there are so many reasons why someone may choose a university that have nothing to do with ability. But, to this day the people I’ve worked with from the less selective public and private schools have not been able to write to save their lives (and we’re in a very writing-heavy job). I swear, my middle school cousins are better writers than half of my colleagues.
It also really matters what your child wants to study and what type of job they want after college. Many companies only recruit from certain schools. If you want to work for the Big 4, then you need to go to a school from which those companies recruit (let alone if you want something like MBB). If you want to do research, you need a school that has funding and facilities and faculty / mentorship for that type of research. If you want to be an engineer, dear god please go to a school that has an engineering school with different engineering majors and not a general “engineering major”.
The environment you’re in is also an important factor; at my school by August (3 months after graduation), everyone I knew was either employed in their field or accepted into graduate school. I worked for the state government and made the least out of my friends who worked in the private sector, but in my area the state government pays decently. My friends who went to the Flagship State U and other good State U also were in a similar environment. However, I know many, many people who went to less selective public schools (non-flagship) who frankly have cr@ppy jobs that have nothing to do with what they studied or the field they wanted to work in, they don’t like their jobs, these jobs aren’t paying them enough to move out from their parents’ houses, they’re just kind of stuck.
Anonymous
I’m very involved with an undergrad alumni group and the dean talks to us yearly to give us stats — they always emphasize that 85% of the people attending do not pay full tuition. (My family paid full tuition in the 90s, so I always feel like we must have been the suckers.)
Anon
Regarding 529 Plans, there are some changes coming. With SECURE 2.0 among its lesser-known provisions, will allow investors who opened a 529 college savings plan at least 15 years ago to roll over a limited amount of their unused 529 account balance into a Roth IRA without incurring a penalty.
Anon
I saved for in-state tuition, room and board using the inflation calculator on saving for college dot com. It was remarkably accurate. My daughter graduated in the spring and we had a bit of money left, my son is starting his third year soon and we are exactly on-track.
I told my kids from the start that if they wanted to go private or out of state, the balance would have to come from scholarships or loans. I also talked about the disadvantages of starting your career with a heavy loan balance. They both ended up choosing in-state. Luckily, we’re in CA where there are a lot of great options, though they’re harder to get into for in-state kids vs out of state kids! (Grrrrrr)
Anon
Laundry help please — I tried liquid fabric softener and put it in the right part of the washer. There are huge blue streaks on my white towels and some shirts now. I have put on some Dawn because I think that fabric softener is an oily stain and have put them into the washer to soak (and have added some oxyclean). Can this be fixed or is it terminal (and time to order some replacement towels)?
Cat
idk about fixable but fabric softener is the last thing you want for towels – it makes them less absorbent!
Anon
+1 I’d wash them once with a cup of baking soda and then once again with a cup of white vinegar.
Anon
I have not used fabric softener in something like 15 years and do not miss it at all. It made my clothes dingy, left grunge inside the washing machine, and contributed to skin allergy issues.
You might have luck with a couple of hot water washes, one with detergent then one (or more) without detergent to get the residue and build up out.
Senior Attorney
What do you do about static cling?
Anon
I usually use wool dryer balls, but even when I don’t, static cling is no more of a problem than it was when I used to use fabric softener. Mostly with my exercise leggings and DH’s gym shorts, so once I’ve peeled them off each other the static just dissipates and is not an issue. I think it is a myth that you need fabric softener to avoid static cling.
Anon
+1 no dryer sheets here, nor liquid fabric softener. The wool balls do the trick 99% of the time, and the other 1% of the time I’d rather live with a little static than a waxy film on my clothing and linens.
Cat
Not the Anon you asked but I have never used fabric softener either. There might be some occasional cling if I toss a synthetic material (think exercise socks) in the dryer with cotton towels but that disappears after you peel the sock off.
Anon
I was in college before I learned about fabric softener and dryer sheets, my mom never used them so I never have. Most things don’t get too staticky, but as the Anon below said once you pull those things off of each other then the static dissipates and it’s not a problem. Also, many of the staticky things (workout leggings) are things I air dry anyway.
Anon
Nothing. It’s NBD to me. It stops being staticky once I shake it out and fold it.
Anon
Nothing. It takes a microscopic amount of effort to peel my towels off of each other, even during winter. I’m not militantly anti-chemical, I just find fabric softener and dryer sheets unnecessary.
Senior Attorney
Okay, I’m giving it up. Thanks, everybody.
Anom
I’ve never used fabric softener. DH used to try to stick dryer sheets bc that’s how his mom taught him. But you definitely should shouldn’t use dryer sheets or fabric softener on towels. The chemicals deposited on your clothes interferes with the towels absorbing water. Static is very temporary issue that just doesn’t merit a chemical response in the form of yet another household product to buy.
Running
I’m a casual runner and run about 3 times a week. I’ve read the Trueform Trainer is great for improving running mechanics and am considering getting one after testing it out for a few minutes. My husband is on board, but thinks I’ll use a standard treadmill more, specifically the Peloton Tread (we have the bike and I use their runs outside already). I only expect to use either when the weather means I can’t be outside, which is about 4 months of summer/fall and on occasion during winter (I’m in the South). Does anyone have a Trueform or Peloton and can comment?
Chl
I would love to learn more about this. As an experiment, maybe you could do a couple day passes to a gym that has one so you get a more elongated sense of whether you prefer it to a regular treadmill ?
OP
That would be ideal, but there is nowhere near me to do that. We had to go pretty far to find the one we were able to try.
Anon
Not sure your budget or life situation (I couldn’t do this, for example!), but could you locate an area with a gym where you could do this and then take a weekend getaway there (and do fun things with your DH the rest of the weekend)?
OP
No. I can’t travel for various reasons. I was hoping one of the many runners here had one or the other and could weigh in.
Anon
Ah sorry I cannot help then, as I only run outside as do all of my runner friends.
OP
I wish running outside was possible! It gets very hot here and even early in the morning it would be dangerous for me to run due to a medical condition. I’ve been running on a not very nice treadmill in my neighborhood gym so this is a treat for myself if
I can ever pick one.
Monte
I have never run for any length of time on the Trueform — my gym has one and I absolutely hate it. I hate the shape and the cadence it causes me to have. I do love the Peloton tread (I don’t own one but my sister does and I am there a lot), and it has held up well for years. I paritcularly like how wide the deck is.
In the end, it comes down to personal preference. I would rather not run for four months and lose my fitness than run on the Trueform, but I am sure lots of people feel differently.
Reddit Rec
Just bc I love this reddit sub, but there’s a really great women running sub https://www.reddit.com/r/XXRunning/
The regular running sub is ok too.
Anonie
What if anything would you do differently if your HHI was over $1 million?
Anon
Worry a lot less.
Senior Attorney
This!
Anon
The thing about having money is you don’t have to worry about money.
Anon
I would hire a chef to buy groceries and prepare all food. And I would live in a different place. And get a concierge doctor.
Anon
I think you overestimate how far $1M goes these days. That’s not daily private chef money.
Sybil
Of course it is, depending on your other expenses. It’s about what your prioritize.
Anon
There’s private chef like in home private chef that celebrities have and then there’s smaller, individualized meal prep services (they come to you or work at their place but make you a week’s worth of meals that you then heat up when you want them). The second is definitely doable.
Anon
I don’t see how $1m income couldn’t pay for a chef. Even if you paid them 100k that leaves plenty left over.
Anon
And you wouldn’t need to pay them anywhere near $100k, at least not in my area. This is like a $30k/year job.
Anon
You’re not thinking about taxes and how much you’d actually bring home. And how much you’d pay in taxes and insurance and benefits on a private chef’s salary.
Anon
I don’t believe you typically pay benefits for this kind of role. We paid about $35k on the books for a full-time (40 hours) nanny. I’m not sure why a chef would be more – it could potentially be a lot less hours, for one thing. I’m sure it costs more in a big city but I don’t believe that it costs $100k .
Also someone bringing in $1M could spend $100k on an employee easily. We made $150k pre-tax when we had the nanny. Money was a bit tight that year, but on a $300k income it would have been completely comfortable.
Anon
Yeah, I’ve had some years pretty close to $1mm. The concierge doc would have been doable, a big move – no, a private chef – definitely not.
Anon
Our HHI is currently less than $200k (and we have what I think is a very nice lifestyle in a LCOL area) so this would be a huge change. I’d work for maybe 3-5 more years, save well, quit and live off the interest.
Anon
Retire, assuming my spouse was raking it in.
Anon
So our HHI just reached this number last year (I switched to a private sector job from govt, which pushed us over that mark). Our lives have not really changed that remarkably other than we are dumping money into our young kids’ 529s and considering buying an investment property in our city. I’m also planning on sharing the cost of paying off my parents’ mortgage with a sibling. But I think what another poster said is right – mostly I don’t worry about money the way I used to.
Anon
So, so, so much. I’m late 20s, single and make 75k a year and am in grad school (I pay 1/2 of tuition, my employer pays 1/2 of tuition. I purposely chose the cheapest school in my area, I don’t love the program but I can afford it). The main thing would be eliminating stress and worry from my life. I live on thin margins right now.
So with an income like that, I’d be able to buy a house. I wouldn’t drive a beater car. I’d be able to take vacations (haven’t been on one since pre-pandemic). I’d splurge and get a cleaning service. I’d be able to afford a pet (would love one, cannot afford it). I wouldn’t be worried about the costs of showing up for my friends and family (even taking a friend out for a drink or having my parents over for dinner is stress on my budget). I’d have the money to actually pursue my hobbies the way I want to pursue them (I could take art classes, I could buy a decent bike, I could take fitness classes). I could afford Invisalign. I wouldn’t be stressed about paying for my upcoming root canal. I wouldn’t check my CC statements and bank accounts every single day to make sure I’m not over budget. I’d be able to build up savings again (grad school has emptied my savings accounts).
Down the road: I could afford the type of wedding I’d want (nice but not necessarily big or fancy, but with the people I love there. I have a lot of friends and a big family so they just get expensive), I could buy a house in the exact town I want (near my parents), I could send my kids to the school that is the best fit for them (private or public or whatever works), I could pay for my kids’ college so they don’t graduate with loans like I did, I could figure out a childcare situation that worked best for my family (whether that’s staying home for a few years, going part time, or having the right nanny / daycare situation).
I live a nice but basic life: my job is fine, I frequently spend time with my family and friends, I have hobbies I enjoy, and I live in a great area (I can walk to work, I can walk to my friends’ apartments, I can walk to tons of bars and restaurants). But, I have to cook 90% of my meals (only eat out when I’m socializing, never get takeout. I only buy groceries at Aldi or Walmart). My car is 19 years old. I don’t shop much, but when I do I only buy clothes second hand or at cheap places (Walmart, ON, Marshalls). Except for hair cuts, I DIY all of my own beauty (pluck my own eyebrows, paint my own nails, my skincare and makeup are all from e.l.f). No matter what I’m doing, I’m bargain hunting, stressing about the cost, or both (usually both).
Anon
Look into first-time homebuyers programs in your city or state. I was able to buy a condo with a salary not much higher than what you make. I put down half of the downpayment, and the program put down the rest and paid closing costs. My sister did a similar program and put 0 down, but she is in a much less competitive real estate market than I am.
Anon
I have looked into this, but am not pursing it. Mostly, because even with these programs I couldn’t afford a house or condo; 1 bedrooms are around $300-400k, so even if I only paid a portion of the downpayment I couldn’t afford the monthly payments. I also don’t want to buy a one bedroom and then (hopefully!) outgrow it in a few years. I also obliterated my savings paying for grad school, so I don’t have enough of a cushion for unexpected home costs.
Even though I’ll be making 90-100k after grad school (if all goes well!), homeownership feels like a pipe dream.
Anon
I get it. My 2 BR condo was close to $400K, however, my mortgage is actually $200 cheaper than my previous 1 BR rent, which kept rising in my HCOL city.
Senior Attorney
I was talking about this with my husband the other day and I told him I could totally spend $1 million a year without breaking a sweat! I would:
Increase charitable contributions by a lot — a lot lot!
Travel more and fancier
Buy my daughter a house or condo (if she’d take it — she’s contrary that way) and give financial gifts to her as seems appropriate (again, if she’d take it)
Consider buying a different house — we’ve always dreamed of a mid-century modern on a hill
Fancier clothes and jewelry
Have more parties and hire help for them!
Anon
Spend as if our HHI was closer to $250k, save heavily and retire early.
Anonymous
Same.
Anon
Been there, done that, partially retired now. Best decision ever. Freedom when you finally get laid off at 50+ is way better than shiny things or private chefs!
Anonforthis
My HHI is currently significantly north of $1mil/year. Both DH and I came from very modest backgrounds, and live such that most people would be absolutely floored if they knew. We live a very comfortable life, but still quite modest. We take very nice vacations (fly economy, but stay in nice houses, etc.) and drive newer fancier cars (I just bought a new luxury PHEV suv, paid cash.) I no longer work. But truly the biggest change is as another poster said– I no longer worry about money. I grew up on the lower end of lower-middle class, and it is a HUGE gift to be able to pay our bills with plenty to spare, with no worries about how to pay for medical care, braces for kiddo, private school & college for kiddo. It’s an amazing gift, and one that I recognize I am not owed… and I think we live accordingly.
Anon
I earn much, much less than $1M and we splurge for business on longhaul flights. I’m amazed you fly economy on that income.
Senior Attorney
Yeah, live a little! It will be money well spent!!
Anonforthis
Hah! We are getting there, I think. But this income level is relatively new– in the last couple of years. Due to DH’s partnership structure we’ve been paying income tax on income which is paid out ~2 years later, which has not been the easiest situation to be in. We’re just now seeing the big $ in the bank account, so loosening up the purse strings on some things. It’s an adjustment, for sure.
Anonymous
Depends on how far over $1 million it is!!! Right now we’re at around $500,000 HHI. I’d buy an investment property and finish funding my child’s college accounts and add a bing chunk of change to our investment accounts. And pay for someone to come to my house and do laundry every week.
Anon
Our HHI is $4-5 million. The biggest change is definitely not worrying about money anymore – which is particularly relieving because I have a child with a chronic illness who requires a monthly injection that costs $30,000. Even before we earned this much, our insurance covered it, but there are always things she needs that insurance doesn’t cover. I still dread opening medical bills, but it’s an irrational fear at this point.
On a more frivolous note, we have a twice-weekly housekeeper who does laundry, and that’s life-changing.
Anon
May I ask, what do you do you guys do as careers?
And I totally understand the fear about medical expenses. Once you have a family member with serious chronic illness, and you begin to learn what is covered, what isn’t, and how things can change so easily at any moment, it adds a level of stress that can’t be placated by any amount of financial security.
Anon
What’s your take on this situation? Last week I flew out of state for an in-person job interview, which was billed as the final step in a long interview process. Today I was informed there’s another additional task, presentation of a proposed annual plan. The recruiter said there are are “a small number” of multiple candidates for the position. Should I even consider myself still in the running, or should I focus on other opportunities? I feel like the company must not be that excited by me (or anyone) if they decided to create yet another exercise to evaluate us. My own enthusiasm for the opportunity has definitely cooled. Crafting such a plan could potentially take an entire day of work (or more), uncompensated, which also concerns me. It seems like the company is now asking for free consulting services from multiple candidates.
Anon
I think taking an entire day to craft something for a job interview after multiple rounds if unreasonable. It doesn’t sound like it’s an amazing job or company so unless this is industry standard, I’d bow out.
Monday
They sound disorganized and/or unclear on what they want, which isn’t good in an employer. Traveling out of state for an interview is a significant commitment, it had already been a long process, AND they told you that was the last step. Now they’ve thrown something else in that is also time-intensive and, as you said, can be used as unpaid consulting work product. I would withdraw.
Anon
I’m definitely considering withdrawing! I already lost 2 days last week traveling, and I expected a decision, not another hoop.
Anon
I wouldn’t do that much work for a job interview unless it was my absolute dream job and even then I think I would gently push back.
Anon
Did they fly you out or did you fly yourself out? If the latter, I would bow out now because they are using you.
If the former, what level is this role? That seems an onerous task for a higher-level position and I would push back on the amount of time they want you to dedicate to providing them free labor without a consulting contract in place. If a lower level role, that is an absurd request and you should take it as a red flag.
Anon
They flew me out. I’m getting reimbursed for flight, hotel, parking, and food expenses. It’s a senior director role overseeing 4 people, so not a huge team. I have overseen larger teams before.
Anon
If you are still interested in the role but are not giddy excited about it, I would push back on the scope of the request. Maybe offer to talk through your initial, high-level ideas for the first year with the hiring manager to make sure your thoughts are in alignment with the firm’s goals, but note that drafting a formal plan would require more time than you can reasonably dedicate on a volunteer basis.
Anon
I think this is a great idea. Diplomatic
Anon
A long interview process is super annoying to go through (I had 5 for my analyst role at a normal (not super exclusive!) company). I think it’s rude, it’s asking a lot of unpaid time and labor and PTO use of the interviewees. That being said, I think many companies now operate this way (ugh) and you’re still very much in the running. I know so many jobs that require proposal or exercises and let’s be real, it’s really just free labor!!
I also think a lot of companies do this to come off as exclusive. My cousin works in tech and has had between 5 and 10 interviews (including at least one, if not more, exercises or proposals like you have) for every job he’s ever had. It’s madness to me, but to him it’s just normal business. He’s C-suite now, but wasn’t this high for previous roles.
If you really want the job and otherwise like the company, I would stay in consideration and keep going through the process. If you’re not passionate about the role and the company, go ahead and bow out. And, I would probably find a professional way of informing HR or the hiring manager of why you have to bow out.
MJ
My take on this is as follows – if you’re not currently employed and you need this job, you have them sign an NDA in which you do NOT license your content, and then watermark the $hit out of it. And you do the assignment, after confirming you’re in the Top 3. Because, theoretically, you have time.
If you are employed, you go back to the hiring manager, (not the recruiter) and ask bluntly if you are in the Top 3. If you are, then you say, I am very interested in the job, and enjoyed meeting you last week. I am happy to discuss my annual plan ideas generally, but I hope you can understand that an annual planning exercise is an approximately [20 hour] project for which, at my typical consulting rates, I would charge in excess of [name a number]. I hope you can see from my experience that I am wholly capable of producing an annual plan, but that’s not something I can accommodate without compensation. Would your company be interested in a consulting relationship?
If they say they absolutely cannot move forward without you producing the annual plan, you have your answer–they’re just trying to get free work out of you.
Assignments are common in my industry (in-house legal, but they typically should not take more than a few hours). More than that is taking advantage of candidates and is abusive. Don’t take the bait unless you really want this job, and you truly are on a short list. It’s a giant, waving red flag that they can’t say, “Youre in the Top 3” here with a straight answer.
Anon
I would like to start using retinol. I’m 30 and have noticed some fine lines starting. My skincare is usually pretty basic: cleanser, toner, HA serum, eye cream and moisturizer (with SPF during the day). I usually use e.l.f or store brand products. I’ve used the ordinary before too.
AnoNL
I can recommend Cerave Retinol serum. It is gentle and non-expensive. I apply it during the day and in evenings I don’t use my prescription tretinoin. It doesn’t irritate even my eyelids and I have very sensitive skin.
Anon
I would up your SPF while on a retinol. I try to use 50 on my face now, while on a retinol. Make sure you are using a decent sunblock.
Anon
OTC retinol takes something like 6 months of consistent use for the body to convert it to retinoic acid. I’d just start with a low dose tretinoin from a place like curology. They will guide you through ramping up to it. Definitely go heavier on the SPF!
Anon
I live in a small apartment building (7 units, but 1 or 2 have in unit laundry) with shared laundry. We have 1 washer and 1 dryer, both of which are coin op. Most of my neighbors are conscientious about laundry: they don’t monopolize the machine (maybe run 2 loads back to back but not more than that) and change over their laundry in a timely manner (we all get caught up in something and are 5-10 minutes late on occasion but they will leave it for HOURS). There is one family (admittedly the only family in my building) that is the worst at this. They regularly leave things for hours (and at least once, days) and will do 3-4 consecutive loads. If someone’s stuff is sitting in the dryer, I have no issues moving it but I don’t move someone’s wet clothes (because I don’t want to pay for their dryer! and it doesn’t make sense for me to start my wash in the washer if the dryer hasn’t been started yet since it’s a longer cycle… and they might not come and start their dryer for hours).
80% of the time I do laundry, it’s not a problem at all; I sometimes run into other neighbors when doing laundry and we all make sure we’re speedy with moving our things over (and we often gripe about this problem family together too). But the 20% that this family is also doing laundry, it’s aggravating. I don’t know them, so I can’t go knock on their door (don’t know which unit they’re in) and ask them to take care of their laundry. But also,I shouldn’t have to. They are adults and this is basic shared laundry courtesy; if you’re unable to take care of your laundry in a timely manner then don’t do laundry at that time. We even have a laundromat (that offers wash and fold!) on our block, if they’re unable to do laundry in a reasonable way. They’re also not the greatest neighbors and when I do see them they seem extremely harried (often yelling at their kid or pet, always in a rush, grumpy).
No advice needed, just venting!!
Anon
Oh, and of course this is my first time doing laundry since signing a 2 year lease renewal on 8/1. So, I’m in this situation for the foreseeable future :)
Cat
If they are leaving their stuff in the washer for hours or days regularly, you need to start putting their wet clothes in a neat pile on a clean surface and starting your own load.
Anne-on
+1 – I’m shocked this hasn’t already happened. When I was in NYC the buildings who had coin-op in the basement would also have those rolling carts. You got ~10 minutes grace and then your wet clothes would be unceremoniously dumped in the cart. At a public coin op the attendants would do this and it was just the way it was – if you chose not to stay to babysit your clothes you accepted that others would move your stuff for you.
Anon
I think it’s because we’re a small building and so it’s not anonymous? Nothing has moved since 10:30 AM (I’ve checked 3x), so I’m getting close to doing that. I’m the newest resident here (Ive been here almost a year) so it feels as though there’s some sort of unspoken agreement to not do this?
There also isn’t really anywhere to put this stuff: top loader washer, side loader dryer and no shelves, carts, or any other “horizontal” space down there. I can put either the washer load or the dryer load (yes, they’re hogging both) on top of the dryer but both won’t fit.
This is my first time having shared laundry in 5 years, but the last time I had it people would absolutely just empty your clothes out, but that was an 80 apartment building with only 5 washers and 5 dryers.
Cat
ok then put the washer load in the dryer (just stuff it in there for storage, don’t turn it on) and then when you’re done with the washer, put the washer stuff back where it was and dump the dryer stuff on top of the dryer. Their rudeness should not be encouraged!
anon
If you’re in my time zone, 10:30 was three hours ago. IDK – I don’t find it all that offensive. Annoying? Sure but it’s a consequence of living in a building this small and renting a unit with no in-unit W&D. I’ve lived in three of these types of buildings over the years and had the same general issues you described. If you were to go at 5pm and it’s still there, I’d find a clean place to set it out. Someday you, too, will forget your laundry so remember what you give is what you get in these circumstances.
Anon
Thank you! Not sure why I couldn’t think of that solution :) I was really stuck on where to put 2 loads of laundry, for whatever reason
Anonie
See my note below, either put it in a cheap laundry basket or a clean garbage bag. If you want to be extra nice you can label the garbage bag with a note, “Your items were in the machine for 3+ hours and I needed to use it, so I went ahead and moved them” – that way they don’t overlook the bag and think their clothes were stolen. It would also be reasonable to explain the situation to your landlord and ask them to provide “clean” baskets or shelves.
Anon
Anon at 1:39 PM – I’m EST so yes it’s been 3.5 hours. This family does this literally every time they do laundry; of course we all forget (though I always set an alarm; it’s not hard to do!), but when it’s literally every week that’s just rudeness.
I’m priced out of in-unit W&D or larger buildings with laundry rooms (the only buildings are luxury buildings in my area). So, I have plenty of friends who have similar laundry set ups and they all agree that this is abnormal. Trust me, I would have in unit W&D (or a bigger laundry room with more machines) if I could!!
Part of living in a community is being considerate towards others: don’t start laundry if you have back to back meetings, don’t start laundry if you won’t be home when it finishes, if you’re forgetful (I am!) set an alarm for when the laundry will be done, don’t monopolize a shared resource.
I pretty much only can do laundry on my one WFH day (today); I’m usually out and about quite a bit on weekends and after work mid-week so I have until 6PM to wash and dry two loads. NBD, so long as I can get it done but if I don’t, then I’ll be in trouble in a few days when I run out of something I need. FWIW, I tried to do laundry yesterday but someone was using the machines then too.
anonshmanon
You move their washer load on top of the dryer to wash your load. If you come back to move your load and nothing has changed, their dryer load goes on top of their washer load, and it doesn’t matter when already dried stuff gets wet again or half the socks tumble down the sides because the pile is too big.
Anon
This would annoy me so much that I would go out and buy an inexpensive laundry basket to put their sh*t in when they don’t take it out of the washing machine, and just leave it there.
Anon
this! a garbage bag is pretty mean but I would do this.
Anon
ugh, I can’t believe people are so rude.
Anonie
In your situation, if a cycle was complete, I would take the clothes out of the machine and put them on a clean surface or maybe in a clean garbage bag. I don’t care if they’ve been sitting for 15 minutes or 5 hours. Once your cycle is done, you don’t have the right to occupy the machine. If someone wants to complain about that, they can bring it up with the building and the building can institute a policy that everyone needs to follow, whether it’s “don’t touch other people’s laundry” or “leave it for 15 minutes then it’s fair game” or “do what you want.” And if I was that family, as long as my clothes were put somewhere clean, I wouldn’t object to this at all.
Anonie
ETA: I LOVE Cat’s suggestion above about returning the finished clothes to whatever machine you found them in once your cycles are done – brilliant! Greatly increases the odds that they’ll never even realize what happened.
anon
I’m team “it’s communal laundry–keep it moving or I will move your stuff.” This insane lady in on of my apartment buildings screamed at me once for touching her clothes, and I looked her dead in the eye and said, “If you have an issue with people touching your clothes, don’t leave your items in communal washers for hours on end.”
Ain’t nobody got time to plan their lives around other people being inconsiderate. Move it!
anon
+1 they can keep it moving or someone else will. I’d try for some empathy (maybe there are complications in their lives that make timely moving or wash and fold really difficult for them), but they should expect that their stuff gets moved if they leave in in communal machines beyond a 10-20 minute grace period, no matter how good the reason.
Anon
If you know it’s going to take hours for you to get your laundry, then you can do the wash and fold. There’s no need to hog the machines.
Anon
We would ask the building manager to send a reminder to all the tenants. We also have a sign on the wall above the machine that basically absolves everyone from moving laundry around if the owner hasn’t come back in a timely and considerate fashion.
Transplant Mom
I lived in a building like that with a newborn and toddler. Sometimes messes would happen that required immediate laundry, but then the newborn would fall asleep and I couldn’t leave them alone while I ran to the basement to move the load. I would always leave my own basket down there with a note asking neighbors to put my clothes in it if the cycle was done. And many sweet neighbors would bring my basket to my door if the dryer load was done, because they knew how difficult it was to wrangle two little kids up and down the stairs with a laundry basket. A little graciousness goes a long way here. Communal laundry with little kids is HARD.