Who is at the Forefront Of Your Relationship?
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Here's an odd question for today: who is at the forefront of your relationship? Is there an alpha and beta in your relationship in terms of career, where one partner is providing a lot of support for the other by taking on more responsibility at home, or in terms of personality or just generally being the driving force to Get Stuff Done? For the daters, who do you expect to be at the forefront of your relationship?
I recently heard a talk by an older woman who's had an interesting career in different kinds of spotlights — first she was a law firm partner, and then she became a television personality, and I was intrigued when she shared some recollections about her marriages.
She talked about how she was always at the forefront of her first marriage — her husband was her support system, and important, but she was the “star” of the union, both as the breadwinner and because of her personality. They eventually divorced, and eventually she fell in love and married someone who was, as she put it, a “much bigger deal” than she was (think CEO/senator type of job). She then had to adjust to having her partner at the forefront.
It was a really interesting talk, and I loved the way she put it — “being at the forefront” — so I thought it would be an interesting discussion here.
(I've actually seen this topic a ton of other places since hearing her talk — in the RBG documentary, they talk about how Marty Ginsburg (a rockstar tax lawyer in his own right) was OK with letting Ruth be the star and following her to D.C. when she was appointed to the D.C. Court of Appeals. On the flip side, I just heard a great podcast with the founder of Rent the Runway, in which she shared that her boyfriend broke up with her the day after RtR hit the front page of the New York Times because he had decided he “didn't want to be with his equal.” (I'm sure we've all got various GIFs and memes coming to mind upon hearing that decision and reason.)
We've talked about when women out earn their partners, as well as dating issues like how to date an overachieving, busy person and how to date someone with less money or more time — but I don't think we've ever truly talked about this issue, and I'd love to hear your thoughts.
So, what does it mean to acknowledge that one person is at the forefront of the marriage — and is that the case in your relationship? For those of you who do see one partner clearly at the forefront, was that clear from the beginning? If the person at the forefront is YOU, were you looking for a support system when you were dating? (Another way to put it: Is there an alpha and a beta in your relationship?)
I am such a total alpha person (while radiating a zen-like calm) that in a relationship I just want to let go and be OK drifting along in the right current (key here).
We’ve taken turns being the higher-earner, but I don’t think either of us has ever really been at the “forefront.” Neither of us is at all famous or even extremely prominent in our fields, like the people mentioned, and we’ve never really prioritized one career over the other. I think the assumption that the higher earner’s career should take precedence is unfair and hurts women especially. If both people have full-time careers (especially that pay enough to support the family), they should both be prioritized, even if someone outearns the other person by a lot. I cringe so hard when some woman earning $250k (and living a lifestyle commensurate with that salary) comments that she’s the default parent because her husband earns $500k. It shouldn’t work that way.
OTOH, I didn’t always but now earn 5X what my husband earns. I have a lot more flexibility but when I can’t do something b/c of work, that 100% needs to be what gets yielded to. So far, we’ve been creative in how that happens (no local family), especially when the kids were little and in daycare and someone was always sick or on 24-hour-fever-free exclusion. But I think at a certain point, wide disparities get treated with economic reality at the forefront — the person who needs to work late to close a deal didn’t set the deadline and had to live with it or not get the next deal; if you sell real estate and netted 50K last year, maybe you factor that in.
My parents were in the funny situation where my dad’s job was significantly higher-prestige and more highly compensated (tenured college professor), but my mom’s job was far less flexible (kindergarten teacher). My dad was the “default parent” and our primary caregiver for most of my childhood because mom had to leave super early to be at school before kids arrived, and had to stay until all the kids had been picked up. As a result, I never felt like one of them was at the forefront – I knew more people outside my family were impressed by my dad’s job, but inside my family it actually seemed like my mom’s job was more important, so they sort of balanced out. Socially, my mom was more outgoing and was by far the “face” of our family.
I agree when both are objectively high earners but I have a hard time saying it doesn’t make sense to prioritize the career of one spouse if the other spouses income only nets like 10-20k after childcare expenses. I may be biased because I’m the much higher earner and have a much more demanding jobs. Also my spouse would be happy to quit and stay home with the kids. I honestly don’t understand how couples with two demanding jobs do it. My spouse is fundamental in me being able to perform at the level I need to.
I agree completely when both people have jobs that could support the household.
To be honest I don’t understand how people are in relationships where they both earn that much. Spouse is very much default parent because I make more money and have a more demanding job. Spouse is instrumental in me being successful at my job. I couldn’t do it without someone putting in more than 50% of the “life” stuff. That said I still do carry like 80% of the mental load
TBH the woman you’re describing sounds kind of… full of herself. She earns more money and has a loud personality so she’s the “star?”
I think phrasing it as the “forefront” is a bad way to frame a romantic relationship. Agreeing that one partner will focus more on career and the other on home life doesn’t mean the career partner is the “forefront” of the relationship, it means the couple has, together, decided on priorities that work for them as a unit. If either partner sees themself as the “forefront” it seems that carries with it an assumption that their needs are more important than their partner’s needs or that they are “better” than their partner…. not good IMHO.
Totally agree. Do we really need to pick a “star” of the relationship? Ummmm no thank you.
Could not agree more. That’s a recipe for a terrible marriage.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who was put off by this. My husband and I strive to be complementary to one another. We operate as a team and support one another.
I’ve always had more earning potential, but he’s always had access to more steady employment. He has, on two occasions, quit his job to move with me while I chase a dream. And I’ve supported him financially when we’ve done that. And when I’ve had trouble getting a (stable) job, and when I wasn’t working after having a kid, he’s supported me financially. Now that I have a demanding job, he stays home and supports me by not working, by being flexible to take care of Kiddo and all the logistics of life, while I earn the money that keeps that life going. We don’t keep score, and we make these decisions as a team.
When I first read the headline, I thought it was going to be more about who is the attention grabber. My husband is great socially — a tiny bit abrasive, but in such a good hearted way that people tend to like him a lot. He’s confident and secure and great at shooting the breeze about sports and music etc. Perhaps he’s the life of the party, but I plan the party, send out the invitations, and count RSVPs. He’s infinitely better at everything domestic (cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, running a house) than I am. I’m better at paperwork, at that kind of organization. I’m the ‘intellectual’ one with the fancy degrees and prestigious-ish job. I come up with weird fun sh*t for us to do. He makes the day-to-day happen, and I make the adventures happen.
As an aside: typing this up made me feel good. We’ve been snippy with one another on and off (extra trying kid situation wearing us down lately) and focusing on all the ways we are really a good team put a smile on my face.
That’s us. I’m the life of the party and my sweet husband puts on the party.
That’s us to a “T”. Nice to know that are similar couples out there making it happen.
+1000 there are certain “spheres” of our lives where I take priority or my husband takes priority but that doesn’t make one of us the “star”
Agree completely. Sometimes we make a decision to prioritize something for one of us but that doesn’t mean that person becomes the more important one in the relationship
This concept of one partner being in the “forefront” is not something I’ve ever considered in any relationship I’ve ever been in.
It does kind of give you a clue why her first marriage ended, doesn’t it?
*I* wasn’t gonna say it….
This question reminds me of that episode of Will and Grace where Grace gets mad at Will because he said he wouldn’t marry her if he were straight because she always has to be the center of attention. Who is the flower in the relationship, and who is the gardener?
My husband’s career is at the forefront, but he also supports mine. My personal life and hobbies are at the forefront, but I also support his.
“Gardener” teeehee.
I must be in control when it comes to gardening. Otherwise, the guy just gets on top of me, huffs and puffs, and when he is done, we are both done b/c he just rolls off and goes to sleep. So I make men satisfy me FIRST, and once I am satisfied, it is ONLEY then that I give him a chance to do his thing. I do not even mind the 30-60 seconds of the schlub doeing his huffing and puffeing. YAY!!!
If anyone has ever watched the TV show Borgen, they have a five-year plan – every five years, they switch who is focusing on the kids and who is focusing on their careers. I thought this was a great idea, although (spoiler alert) she is elected prime minister at the end of her term and they end up getting divorced. But I like the idea that it goes in phases with the same people – I’m the higher earner right now, and DH has taken a professional step back for health reasons, but he used to be the higher earner and supported me through law school, and things might swing back the other way when we have kids.
I would never describe myself as being at the forefront of our relationship and think that dynamic is messed up, although I see how it can apply if someone is running for president. Michelle Obama’s book had an interesting section on that.
I would say maybe “in the spotlight” is a better formulation of where we are at the moment. At the moment I’m the president of the large service club to which we both belong, so by default I’m more in the spotlight than he is. He likes it just fine and it’s been great. I have a big personality and he’s a bit more laid back, and everybody is always asking him how he keeps up with me. We laugh and laugh because we know the real question should be how I keep up with him!
Generally, outside of the presidency thing, we’re pretty evenly matched. We have taken turns being the high earner in the two years we’ve been married, and I’d say we are similarly accomplished in our careers. In terms of Getting Stuff Done, one of my key requirements for a spouse was “makes things happen” and he’s been great at that. If I had to pick one of us who is the get-stuff-done-er in the marriage, it would probably be him. Which I love so much I can hardly stand it.
My husband is at the forefront in terms of career, even though I out-earn him three times over. He’s a classical musician, and we both agreed early on that his career came first, based on the assumption that it’s easier for me to get a job as a lawyer than for him to get a job in a major orchestra. We live in our current city solely because he won a job here. I’m happy with my career trajectory and it brings me joy to be able to facilitate his dream job.
That is really awesome!
I suspect like most, my marriage is an interesting combination of all of this. My husband is an active duty Air Force officer so I wear the military spouse hat but I earn more. We met/got married while we were both active duty but I’m a government contractor now. He probably has slightly higher long term earnings potential (engineering degree versus my MBA) but due to the military, it’s possible that I’d choose to leave my higher paying job to follow him. We’re very much a team and try to make the best decisions for our family together but I’d say his career is the star in our relationship right now.
Personality wise, I am definitely the more dominant of the two. My husband is an even-keeled, go with flow kind of guy who isn’t great at being an adult (after college, he took two years off before med school – 18 months to shore up his app and 6 months after getting in before school started – and lived at home during that time, and while he was in med school, he basically did nothing but study and outsourced/ignored most life skills). I am louder, more opinionated, and better at doing basic life stuff (cooking, cleaning, etc.), so a lot of time we tend to follow my opinion. I’ve tried to get into some of his interests – certain video games and board games we both enjoy together now, but most of the time he’s gotten more interested in what I like (true crime, the good wife, top chef). Since I run the show on 90% of things, it’s always a littler surprising when he has an opinion that doesn’t agree with mine (and usually for those, I’m the one who compromises).
Career wise, it’s pretty even – he’s in residency and I’m in medium law, so even though I currently make more, I work way less, so I do most of the chores around the house. I gave him a list of cities I could find work in and he chose from there, and we’ll probably long term settle in this city (which is closer to my family and friends, though he gets along well with them). It was his first choice program, so it was a win-win for both of us.
My husband has always completely supported my career and stayed home when our kids were babies. Now he is back to work and his job is far less flexible than mine, so when push comes to shove I take off usually. My job also has certain things that are not often but absolutely cannot be missed (oral argument in our state appellate courts). So if it is one of those situations, then he just has to miss. We earn about the same amount of money now. I used to significantly out earn him, but that has leveled off. I think because I have a stronger personality, he defers to me on a lot of things. I have the final say most of the time. There are certain things he cares more about and so he has the final say on those things. Luckily we are on the same page most of the time so there isn’t too much conflict.
This is a nightmare for me. I want an equal partner. Yes, there’s give and take, but the concept that one of us is the designated person to come first in any aspect of life is repugnant to me.
This idea strikes me as incredibly weird. Granted, I grew up with only one parent, so maybe I don’t understand the world. I always thought of marriage as an equal partnership, even if both partners don’t earn the same, they can compensate in other useful ways. Both partners’ needs have to be addressed for the relationship to work.
As for me, I couldn’t say there’s a “star” of my marriage. My DH is absolutely amazing as a spouse, has a graduate degree from a tippy-top school, and is a rockstar in his career. He’s always way out-earned me. Yet, he’s never forced me to give up anything because he’s so friggin’ important. He supported me as I took a job abroad and went to graduate school in a different state.
When my job moved to (yet another) state, he talked his workplace into allowing him to be the first remote worker and followed me there, all while I earned less money and was less “rockstar-ish.” Of course, I fly with him sometimes for work-related social events, and we plan our calendars around his busy times since I’m more flexible. We split responsibilities coordinating major things (house-hunting, moving, etc), and I could not imagine any other way.
There is no world in which I bow to a man who thinks he’s more important just cuz. It almost strikes me as a weird type of servitude.
I’m single, but I expect to be at the forefront at least some of the time if I’m in a relationship. It’s hard to find a permanent job in my field, and it’s hard, though not impossible, to get two hires in the same place in the same year. I’m fine with compromising to find something that works for both of us. But I’m done with the idea that women have to follow men around (men tend to get better faculty jobs/better salary & benefits, so it’s the same as following the person who makes the most money in business).
I think it’s important to acknowledge who’s at the forefront or decide that you’re going to compromise, before the decisions come around. Too often I hear “well, we’ll do what’s best for the relationship” from a woman, yet somehow every decision comes out to favor her male partner. At least if it’s explicit you know what your partner’s thinking ahead of time. A friend’s boyfriend was one year behind us – he stated outright that he expected her to find a local job during his last year, but that “he would have to go wherever was best for his career” after that. He became her ex-boyfriend shortly thereafter. She actually did find a local job and so did he a year later – but that discussion made it clear that their priorities didn’t line up, and she refused to get back together.
Men are such dopes. Especialy those that fail to realise that if they want what ONLEY we can give them, they MUST accede to our demands, and not make their own. Otherwise they will be spending their lives holding their own, and we’ll be moving on to men who will do what we want.
I understand this concept, as my exhusband struggles very much as I started to have career success- he wanted to be in the forefront, be the best, make the most money, etc. As I said- EX. Currently my partner and I are just about equal in salary, though I have a steady job and he is doing independent consulting so it’s a little unstable. From my perspective, I definitely don’t think about either of us being in the forefront-I guess you’d say my job is more prestigious but I’m very reserved and introverted. He is gregarious and extroverted and a bit older than me- probably when people think of us as a couple, they think of him first. But he is very much my helpmeet in the relationship. We’ve no kids so we’re able to easily lead our (currently) rock-star-ish lifestyles with travel and such. We help each other.
This is super strange and does not exist in my world.
Oops, RBG was appointed to the DC Circuit (intermediate federal court), not the DC Court of Appeals (DC equivalent of state supreme court).
I feel like my DH and I trade that role. He’s more outgoing, but I’m more ambitious. I like to take risks, he doesn’t. We are definitely a marriage of opposites and sometimes that has a balancing effect and other times it causes a lot of friction. One struggle we do have is with some serious mental health issues that have been at the forefront of our relationship for a long time. It’s gotten a lot better, but it has always made the question of “priorities” murky. Our day-to-day life has become more equitable but his illness still takes the forefront in all of our big decisions. I haven’t looked for or taken career opportunities because of this (instead I’ve started to branch out into entrepreneurship which I might not have otherwise, so that’s cool). Have any of you dealt with this in your own marriage?