This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
What a perfect summer shirtdress! The vertical stripes look so chic to me. It’s lined, so you won’t have to worry about it being too sheer for the office. To give it some shape, I’d either wear it with the self-tie belt or add a wide belt like this one. For a casual office, I would wear this with black sandals; for a slightly more formal look, I would add a black blazer.
The dress was $139 full price at Banana Republic but is now marked down to $83. It's available in regular sizes XXS–XL, tall sizes S–XL, and petite sizes XXS–L. This dress is selling out quickly, but Banana Republic Factory has two striped shirtdresses to check out, one short-sleeved and one sleeveless. Pictured: Linen-Cotton Shirt Dress
This option in plus sizes is also available in misses and petite and is $49.99/$59.99 (on sale) at Talbots.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anon
Cvs is now saying 6-10 days for COVID results, up from the original 5-7.
Not only is this personally frustrating (waited 3 days for a test, now waiting up to 10 days for results meanwhile I feel fine), but no wonder the disease is spreading! The test and results process takes as long as the quarantine. You can’t contact trace because anyone you may have infected will already be sick. The infrastructure in this country is not set up for this and I’m dreading the second wave.
I worked extensively on the first wave of covid in a non clinical setting and it just feels like all of my work and my colleagues work was in vain if 5 months kater we can’t even get test results in a timely fashion!
Anonymous
You are supposed to get your test and stay the eff home until you get the results. No “out and about”. OMG please tell me people are not getting tested and then being all “whatevs” while they wait.
Anonymous
Yeah ok. You explain that to people who can’t take that time off work. There’s a reason public health isn’t supposed to rely on perfect compliance with unreasonable demands. If you want people to get tested anytime they have symptoms or exposure and then stay home until they get results testing needs to be free easy and fast.
OP
+1
I’m lucky that I can work from home, I live alone so I don’t risk infecting a family member I live with, and that I can afford food delivery. So many people can’t.
OP
I’m well aware of that and have been quarantined for 10 days now.
However, when you have to wait up to two weeks for a test and the results and you feel fine, I do not trust most Americans to comply and quarantine.
When I got my test, there was no official instruction to quarantine until results. COVID was my life 24/7 for 4 months; most people aren’t as informed as I am. With so many people out there who a) don’t follow the news and b) receive bad information, they may not know. Or, if they know, they may not care.
I developed symptoms at night, after I had been at work (masked up but still interacting with others) all day. 10 days later and I’m still waiting on results. My agency will do a deep clean, but only if a COVID positive employee was in the office within 5 days of testing positive. I’m on day 10 and no results, so that ship has sailed.
We know most people won’t or can’t follow the rules. We need to make it as easy as possible for them to do so. Waiting days for a test and then weeks for results is not helping
Anon
It’s also much more nuanced than this. If you google COVID symptoms, it lists basically any possible ailment. Say you have a minor one of those….like a runny nose* for a few days. So okay, you get tested and now because of the length of time to get results for a brief runny nose you have to self quarantine for 14 days or whatever, which honestly most people won’t do. But also, if you got results in a reasonable time frame (a couple of days) it would be reasonable to contact anyone you had close contact with recently and say, hey, you may want to stay home for a couple of days until I get my results, and that person might at least have a chance of saying “ok”. But now? Are people really going to contact people and say, hey, I got a test but I won’t find it for 10 days, but can you stay in quarantine for all of those days even though my symptoms were minor/questionable and you feel fine? That’s just not going to work. Now multiply that times a million for the real chain effect here.
It’s an effing mess.
*I’m using runny nose as an example of what google lists as a symptom but I don’t think is one of the easier tell tale ones and is so non-COVID common. Insert any non-COVID common listed COVID symptom here.
Anonymous
I hope that people are not getting tested for a runny nose. That is a bit nutty.
Anon
The thing is, you never know if you have a very mild case and are contagious or if you just have a runny nose.
As someone who is waiting for test results after having mild symptoms, I didn’t want to assume I was fine and then accidentally spread the disease to someone who was high risk.
Truly any and every symptom is listed as a symptom for COVID.
Anon
But my point is more…what crosses the line between a nutty symptom to get tested for vs an actual possible mild symptom? How are we as normal people supposed to figure that out when every symptom of any illness is basically listed as a symptom?
Anonymous
Interesting — did something *change* for you? Or did you have exposure? Or are you getting a test out of an abundance of caution?
COVID experience
Gently, my sister was tested after feeling a mild sore throat. She also thought getting tested was a bit nutty. She got tested anyway—to make sure that she wouldn’t give anything to our parents, whom she was visiting.
She quarantined until the test results came back.
She had COVID.
Her getting tested likely saved my parents from getting sick.
That led me to believe that being tested for any of the COVID symptoms is a good idea.
Anon
I’m the OP, Im an essential employee and go into the office. I also visit a high risk relative to assist with things like running errands and yard work. We all wear masks and keep our distance when I visit but I am still nervous given how high risk this person is.
I originally was just feeling not great, so I decided to work from home for a few days. After a few days, I then developed a cough. The general “meh” feeling + cough led to me quarantining and getting tested.
I’m really glad I decided to stay home when I was just feeling not great, since I developed key covid symptoms later on. Still waiting on test results.
AnonATL
This is definitely happening. Read the thread from the person the other day who was saying she had very mild symptoms (though I think she also mentioned feeling out of breath), and everyone encouraged testing.
In a perfect world where we have proper testing infrastructure, people could and should get tested for feeling even slightly off, but that isn’t our reality…
Anonymous
I think that a sore throat for most of us *would* be a change. Especially in the summer. Especially when I think that most people are staying in / around far fewer people than usual.
Had COVID
I had COVID. My first symptom was a runny nose.
Blew my mind, too. “Nutty” or not, prevention is key. Getting tested and quarantining immediately may have saved a lot of my coworkers and potential contacts from harm. I could not afford to stay at home. I was not paid to stay at home. And yet, it was still the right thing to do. Getting tested for minor symptoms may seem “nutty,” but often things start of minor before getting worst.
Stay safe y’all.
And OP, good luck getting your results. I hope that everything comes back negative.
Aunt Jamesina
This is also why we’re going to be screwed once school starts up.
Anon
Unfortunately, that is not what is happening in essential services. My husband is in law enforcement. If they have a low risk exposure (I’ll explain in a bit) then they are supposed to be tested but keep working pending results. If they have high risk exposure they get tested and quarantine. If the low risk exposures all had to stay out of work, they would have no work force. I’m guessing the medical field and fire/ems are doing the same thing.
For example, he got notification that someone whose house he was in three weeks ago has tested positive. He had on masks and gloves and never touched the person. He wasn’t in the house long. This is considered low risk exposure by his department. He has no symptoms other than routine joint pain he gets due to underlying medical conditions. A high risk exposure would be someone you wrestled or spent a long time in close quarters with, such as a transport. The fact that his exposure was three weeks prior made it lower risk too.
They have public health and risk management helping decide who quarantines and who doesn’t but it would certainly help if the tests could come back faster. He was tested on Thursday. I was tested at CVS a month ago (sore throat – probably allergies) and my results came back in 2 days. We are in a state that has downward trending numbers too so I don’t understand why the delay. I’m guessing anyone with symptoms getting tested at his department would be told to quarantine.
Anonymous
I think that this is probably the right approach. Extended time + known exposure = treat very seriously and differently than either “crossed paths briefly with” or some such.
We had a + exposure where I work (but another floor and it was a week from the person’s last work day when we found out). I still have no idea who it was, but wasn’t concerned at the time. I live in the SEUS where everyone has allergies, so it would take a major change in my allergy symptoms to even think something was up.
I did get tested prior to medical care and quarantined from the test (negative, not surprised) until the procedure. I have to do so again (biopsy) and the results will take longer, so I have to go in on the weekend for a test to get the results back prior to the biopsy (but still, only 4 days total). I can WFH.
I guess the big thing is for people who can’t work from home (EMTs, restaurant workers) so that if they have a serious exposure-based need for testing, they aren’t incented to go to work prior to getting the test results in case they are +. Like I went straight home after my test and didn’t leave the property and didn’t even stop for takeout / drive through b/c I didn’t want to be non-compliant and out of respect for the people who’d co-breathe air with me for medical procedures.
Anon
Agreed. The part I left out of my comment was that my husband was tested on Thursday and today is Wednesday with no result. If he actually did come back positive, it would be a nightmare to figure out all the people he came in contact with while he was still working. I understand why that is the procedure but without prompt testing results it is kind of pointless.
anon
I got tested on Wednesday, July 2nd, after work. Went to work Thursday, stayed home all weekend, went to work Monday. I got my test results back Monday night. Test was negative.
It’s my employer’s decision to require us all to return to work. I’m not going out anywhere else, so if I get Covid, it’s likely from work. I get 6 sick days per year, and they don’t roll over. I’ve already used 1.5 this year. I’m going to save my sick days for when I actually get Covid. I could do 100% of my job from home, but my boss frowns on WFH. Our office never closed, and the managers only allowed work from home during the official stay at home order. My job isn’t super secure, and I can’t afford to lose it.
Anon
I know, it’s absurd. I waited 6 days for the first test and now was told 3-10 for the second. I’m in a hotspot state. I’ve stayed home completely because I have the luxury to do so, but a lot of people don’t. A lot also choose not to. We are so screwed.
anon
I completely agree with you. No wonder this virus is out of control. Yes, there are bad policy decisions being made at every level and people are generally dumba**es, but the testing situation IS NOT HELPING.
Anonymous
I have many issues with the state and city government response to COVID, enough to fill a whole thread. However, we are now at the point that testing is night and day in NYC relative to what’s being reported in other states. I’ve gotten tested twice following low risk exposure – made an appointment online at an urgent care center, tons of availability, 0 wait time, both appointments took under 10 minutes, results in ~36 hours. No cost. It makes it so easy for people to do the right thing from a public health perspective and get tested when the process is easy.
Anon
Yeah– my state in the SEUS that has more widespread testing availability than most has been super delayed recently. I got tested on Thursday and am still waiting results and have been going into work (masked with office door closed). I got tested out of an abundance of caution because I traveled– just thinking I was doing the right thing by getting tested and that I would have results back in a couple days.
And yes, our city is encouraging people that are asymptomatic/people with minor symptoms like a runny nose to get tested. A large number of the people I know that have been positive have found out when they got tested preemptively before a trip, etc.
Naples Couple
yep, we are getting tested on Friday (will have been home a week) – no symptoms, but want to be sure before we go back to “covid normal” behavior of seeing parents indoors without masks. Hopefully we won’t be in results purgatory too long, but we’re keeping to ourselves until then. Thankfully we are both WFH anyway so it’s not as much of a burden to stay home.
Betsy
This is what frustrates me so much about the school opening conversation, because it isn’t being talked about enough. It seems that states who reopen schools will have to take a no tolerance policy on sick kids in schools, so if every kid who goes home with a runny nose needs a negative Covid test to return to school the testing demand will be astronomical. We can’t keep up based on the current level of demand and it seems like it will only get worse. Is every sniffly kid just going to have to enter a 14 day quarantine?
Cat
Silver lining – maybe there won’t be so many sniffly kids if anyone with a hint of a cold symptom is kept home!
Anon
And what about that sniffly kid’s entire family during those 14 days? Not sustainable or doable.
Anonymous
I mean, either we scream “BUT THERE IS A PANDEMIC” at spring breakers to expect them to change their behavior and also change our behavior (b/c pandemic). But screaming and mask shaming when no one quarantines in the face of needing testing / exposure / symptoms is just not being serious. Either there is a pandemic or there is not. And when it is inconvenient, I guess there is no pandemic.
Anonymous
Well, it’s a pandemic. If everyone did what they should have been doing back in March, we wouldn’t be here now. And when this board is reluctant, I think we are doomed. Sadly.
Maybe if it were Ebola we’d treat it differently? Or TB where public health can make you stay home?
Anon
I think the point of this thread is that you can’t reopen society if you don’t have fast testing. It is reasonable to ask that everyone with any type of symptom or possible exposure get tested. It is not reasonable to expect those same people to get tested any time they have a possible exposure and are asymptomatic and have them quarantine while waiting results each time if it it is taking 10 days to get results.
Anon
Exactly.
Anonymous
Our school district has announced that it is not going to relax its draconian attendance policy. A doctor’s note is required for absences of at least 3 days, and 10 excused (not unexcused, but excused) absences = failure. 10 absences is one two-week exposure quarantine.
Anon
I recently learned about the free Britney thing and read up on her conservatorship. There are still some things I don’t get. Why is her dad in charge of her conservatorship instead of her mom? I have not followed her for a while, but even I know that her mom was the one who managed her career and went everywhere with her early on, and that her dad was out of the picture most of the time, and was alcoholic and had a gambling problem.
And if her dad was truly watching out for her, why was she still performing so many concerts and doing the Vegas residency thing instead of being on a peaceful ranch somewhere in say, Colorado, away from all the paparazzi? There are so many fishy things going on with her conservatorship – the doctor who was medicating her died suddenly from a heart attack just when the court issued an investigation into his dosages for Britney; the lawyer who was co-managing her conservatorship with her dad asked for a raise, which triggered the court to look into his management of her conservatorship, and then promptly resigned (likely because he was afraid of being disbarred if the court continues its examination); apparently, she stopped taking her medications, which led to her Vegas residency being cancelled, so her dad forced her into an mental illness facility in an effort to get her to resume her Vegas residency. While she clearly has mental issues, there are clearly signs that her dad is trying to leech off her finances, by medicating her too much, and forcing her to continue to perform, which in turn might exacerbate her mental illness. He clearly should not be in charge of her conservatorship. Uhh, my heart just breaks for her. She’s on her way to end up like Michael Jackson. Where is her mother or her sister in all this?
Anonymous
IDK, but I am pretty sure that show biz is not meant for children. Probably not for anyone.
I think her sister having a kid (rumors were that it was an adult Nick exec, not the teen BF) has kept her out of the public eye, probably in a good way (possibly b/c of Secrets).
I think every working kid should have a conservator, but it should be someone like a CPA at a Big4 (so plenty of insurance if the misfease or malfease, which I think is always a risk).
KW
Her sister is in the new Netflix series Sweet Magnolias. So she’s still working to some extent at this point.
Anonymous
She and I were pregnant at the same time (I was an adult tho) and I think she has rarely worked from then until now. IIRC, that makes her child in middle school, so her hiatus has been longer than some people’s careers. I think she was able to get back in b/c she headlined a major show before. The behind the scenes on this are likely fascinating — in my next life, I am Ari Gold.
Anon
Omg, I just looked up her kid. She looks so much like Dan Schneider, the rumored Nickelodeon producer who was ousted based on sexual assault allegations. I can’t believe that producer walked away with $7 million instead of being in a jail right now.
Anon
I read somewhere that this is statistically the norm for teen pregnancies. It has made me think of teen pregnancy much less as a teen problem and much, much more as an adult men problem.
Anonymous
Exactly. And does Percy dad get visitation (hopefully he is in jail, but then he can’t pay support). It is a no-win situation.
Anonymous
PERVY not Percy. Ugh.
Aunt Jamesina
YUP. It’s horrifying, especially given the shaming that surrounds teen pregnancy: In nearly half of births (49%) to mothers ages 15-17, the father is 20 or older; fewer than one in five of these births involve fathers under age 18. This is completely an older men problem. When I was a teacher, I had a 15 year old student who was pregnant, and the rumored father was nearly 30. It’s sickening.
Anonymous
I suspect she’s being over-medicated and her finances poorly managed but I think the Vegas residency isn’t actually the worst thing for her. Keeping her working and focused but not travelling all the time seems to be when she does the best. I think the structure is good for her but I also think that by now they could have worked out another way to keep her busy/occupied on a consistent schedule without having to have such a busy performing schedule. Even if the residency was for 4 weeks on at 4 times a week and then 4 weeks off or something.
Anon
Can I just say, I enjoy the break from a COVID post with a good old fashioned Britney gossip post. I am here for it. (I also maybe oddly really want to cheer her on and hope the best for her always).
Anon
Me too!
Anon
Same. Sad for her, but happy to have you all to discuss with.
Vicky Austin
Same! I enjoy the less existential conversation, and I’ll always root for Britney.
CountC
I pop into her IG every once in a while and she is clearly bored out of her mind mostly being stuck in her house. Something seems off when she posts/talks to the camera, but I don’t know if it’s the medication or what. I do feel badly for her. She has to ask permission from her father to drive her own damn car to Starbucks! She does have a good looking, younger boyfriend and I am so nosy/curious as to how that relationship works wthin the confines of the conservatorship. Does the bf have to ask permission to go to Brit’s house? Are they having to act like they are in HS? How does this work!!!
Lynne was liking posts with the #FreeBritney hashtag and I believe has been quoted as saying that her father is definitely controlling her. And then you add the assault by Jamie on one of the kids and the whole thing is tragic and messy and just terrible.
Anonanonanon2
Hopefully she got a bit of a rush from bburning down her gym. (No, not intentionally, but if you haven’t seen this video find it!! She casually mentions that she burned down her gym)
Aunt Jamesina
I think she is very unwell and needs some sort of conservatorship or protection (which isn’t a legal action taken likely, so I’m inclined to think there’s way more to her issues than meets the eye) BUT I also think her family is hugely problematic.
Hasn’t she also lost custody of her kids outside of supervised visits? That’s a big red flag too.
Kk
I think she has 30% custody of her kids because *her dad* was a risk to them-allegedly he assaulted her son Sean Preston.
lf her dad is the one who’s committing assault, he should not be the one in charge of her conservatorship.
Anon
Can you ladies advice me on how to politely end a conversation? For some reason people unprompted often tell me the nitty gritty of their life. Which generally results in me losing respect for people (like seriously dude, did you need to tell me about your tax evasion?!) This situation happens astonishingly frequently and I really need to find a way to mitigate. TIA
Sash
I try to pass it off like I’m doing them a favor. “Oh, wow – look at the time! I didn’t mean to take up your whole afternoon! I’ll let you get back to work/lunch/dinner/whatever.”
Monday
+1. I also sometimes say “I don’t want to keep you here all day!” People generally don’t feel comfortable saying “Oh no–I have plenty of time. Let’s keep talking.” For new people, you can also say “It was nice to meet you!” which signals that the interaction is wrapping up.
Anonanonanon2
Same. “Oh gosh, it’s been 40 minutes, I’ll let you get back to your day! Great catching up!”
Anon
I find that that doesn’t work well. I’ve gotten “no no, I’m not in a rush!” I prefer to do “oh wow, look at the time, I better run. It was great catching up.”
Anon
Oh, this happens to me. I’ve literally sat down on the subway and had people tell me their life story.
I find a combination of firmness and humour works really well. Easy laugh, “Hey, I really don’t want to know this. Let’s talk about football instead.”
OP
Are we long lost siblings? I just don’t understand what about me makes someone decide, yes, this lady on the subway, I want to spill my secrets to her.
Equestrian Attorney
My mother has this trait too. Strangers will sit next to her at weddings and tell her the most intimate details of theirs lives. I think it’s because she is a great listener who seems trustworthy, so that’s a good thing! But yeah, I can see how it would be annoying sometimes.
Anonymous
I wonder if I would have made a great Lady Detective — like people just tell me stuff, I don’t even have to interrogate them. And I have Resting B*tch Face, so not a warm fuzzy person to walk up to.
Anon
I think it’s the opposite of having RBF… maybe “resting best friend face.”
pugsnbourbon
Yep. Resting Friendly Face, I have it, too.
Anon
Maybe try to act more interested? I find that whenever I act more interested, ppl tell me less. But if I seem like I was just being polite and not interested, they will unload more on me.
Senior Attorney
This is hilarious and makes perfect sense to me!
Flats Only
I think it’s just something about you. There’s something about me that makes people ask me for directions, information and where things are when I’m downtown or in an airport or other transport scenario. I have no idea what prompts this, but I have gotten used to it.
Anon
Me too. I’m happy to help when I can, but it’s a but awkward when I’m on holiday and don’t know the city or don’t even speak the language!
Anon
Take a notebook everywhere and take notes while they’re talking. Ask follow up questions like, “what did you say the years of your tax evasion were?” Then look concerned while hitting down the answer.
Only halfway kidding, but this would work, honestly.
Covid -- stupidity
H took kids to camp this morning and one forgot a mask. H had no masks in the car (not even for him) to go and ask what the camp wanted to do (there is a shop that sells masks but H can’t go in b/c no mask himself) since that kid is technically young enough to be outside of our local mask mandate and the camp is outside.
H is bringing kid home. H is blaming kid.
H: you are a dang grownup and shi*t belongs at the top of the food chain. This is on you.
Anon
Yes, but we are still getting used to carrying our masks the way we carry our keys and phone so you should give him a break. Obviously the kid is not to blame and it’s wrong of your husband to blame the kid.
Anon
I hear ya. My spouse took my kid to tae kwan do yesterday and forgot a mask for him. I found myself screaming over the phone, which was a total overreaction. Everything sucks right now, it’s a behavioral shift to remember to always have a mask (I put disposable ones in my and my spouse’s car after this happened.)
anon
I agree that H shouldn’t blame the kid but why not borrow a mask from another kid to go into the store?
Anon
You can not ‘borrow’ a mask because then it’s infected with your germs so you’d need to take it home and sanitize it before returning it to the person who let you use it.
Anon
A spare or disposable mask. Why make so many assumptions and be so contentious about it?
anon
Ok then he could buy a replacement mask for the other kid while he’s in there. Or send a masked kid into the store with money.
Anon
Yes, this. Give a kid or an adult with a mask $5 and ask them to buy a mask.
Call up the store, explain the situation, and see if they will walk a mask out to your car.
Anonymous
This is not a big deal. People forget things. Hopefully both will learn from it and remember in the future.
anon
+1 I also am apparently a mean mom because while I think blame suggests that H is like yelling at the kid, in our house kids are responsible for their own stuff. It’s the only way they learn to be responsible. Kids have missed out on participating in activities in the past when they don’t have the right gear but they almost never forget the same thing twice. It’s not a blame game. Just letting them deal with the natural consequences of forgetting stuff or not having systems in place. It’s not a huge deal.
Airplane.
The big deal is not forgetting. The issue is blaming the kid and not solving this problem with his adult brain (give a masked person money to buy a mask so the kid can go to camp today). Not okay, he’s the adult and he didn’t even have a mask for himself in case he needed to get out of the car and he didn’t solve the problem and instead blamed his own child. Dude needs to grow up and handle things maturely.
anon
+100. Commenters above have pointed out multiple solutions to this problem, none of which involve blaming a child for an honest mistake.
Formerly Lilly
He absolutely should not blame the kid. But, it is a relatively new habit and hard to remember. I could understand forgetting, just not the blame shifting.
We live in a car culture area with the cars garaged in the house, and have found it easier, if not actually necessary given that we are both absentminded, to put masks for the week in the car we are driving. It’s a gallon ziploc bag per person, with necessary masks for the week plus one or two extras, in the bag and then the bag in the car on Sunday night. This has saved both of us trips back to the house for forgotten masks.
cat socks
I’m in a car culture area too and I’ve just been keeping my masks in the car. I have multiples so I bring the used ones inside to wash when I get home. I’m thinking of getting a pack of disposable masks to keep in the car in case I run out of reusable ones.
anne-on
+1 – I have 2 cloth masks in my car’s glove box just in case and stashed another two disposable one’s in my husband’s car since he’s the more forgetful one.
anon
I’m not in a car culture area but I have a couple hanging off the doorknobs of my front door & shoe/coat closet.
anne-on
Ha – we turned the hanging coat rack in our mudroom to the mask rack. We quite literally have 5 or 6 different types available for folks to grab (kid masks, dad’s workout masks, mom’s thin silk/cotton lawn masks, the brooks brothers n80 masks for doctor’s visits, heavier duty masks with pockets, the ones that tie behind your head if you’ll be wearing them all day). We have to wear them, so I just try to make sure we have options that are comfortable for various situations.
Not that Anne, the other Anne
We have a “mask station” in the entryway as well. All masks get hung there if they’re ready to be worn again. I also have a pack of disposables in case someone needs to come in the house and doesn’t bring their own mask.
Jo March
Please tell me more about these workout friendly masks! I get so sweaty outside and my mask slips so I’ve just been exercising inside and that hasn’t been going that well.
anon
also in a car culture area, and I keep multiple disposable ones in my glove box, and frequently see that people have one hanging from their rear view mirror when i walk by parked cars.
Senior Attorney
Yes I’ve been saved more than once by having a mask or two in the car.
NOLA
Dude’s masks all end up in his car (I know because I have to move them from the passenger seat to sit there), so I always have to remind him to grab a mask if we walk anywhere on a Saturday. Luckily, he has stopped being annoyed by my reminders.
Anon
Agree. One thing I have done is buy a couple packs of disposable masks and throw them in the car. This is going to keep coming up. Tell your husband to step it up and get prepared.
Anon
How old is the kid? I don’t think it is that unreasonable to expect kids of a certain age to make sure they have their necessary items when they leave the house – like kids having to remember their homework and lunchbox.
NOLA
I think we’re just all worn out and on high alert about everything right now. Dude and I are generally on the same page about everything to do with being careful, but last night, I snapped at him because he wanted to dine in at a restaurant. I was really hungry, didn’t want to go out in the first place (should have eaten at home), and am feeling really uncomfortable with dining in. We could have sat outside, but there was a loud gathering across the street. He didn’t want takeout, but he got over it and kissed me and went in to get it. I’m glad he understood when I was feeling pretty overwrought about life in general.
Anonymous
Red flag for he’s being careless when you’re not around, so you’re more exposed than you think.
NOLA
No, he really isn’t. He’s really bummed that his favorite restaurant down the block is still closed and he’s not going out without me. He’s mostly getting home late and throwing something together. He does have a bias against takeout that worries me, which is why we cooked so much during lockdown. I was pretty clear last night and he agreed. He respects my concerns and we have both been really careful.
Schools
Today is the day we have an emergency school board meeting to find out if my big city will resume classes 1/3-50% in-school (going in person 1/3 of the time and OMG I hope some live instruction vs Khan Academy links / worksheets 2/3 of the time) vs all crappy on-line education. Pray for some in-person education.
OTOH, if we are 100% distance learning, what options are there for middle-schoolers? Our high-schoolers can sign up for community classes “community education” classes or even opt in for transferrable college credit in graded classes, but they have been pretty clear about not letting middle-schoolers sign up (I don’t care about wasting my $, but my kids need better offerings than they are getting through school, and appreciating World History at an 8th grade level and not getting credit for it is fine with me if I can see them learning). Is the something better out there?
Anonymous
Maybe check out Pearson Online Academy? They give school credit/ advance them through grade level. My thoughts and prayers are for everyone to stay home safe.
Anon
I saw k12.com recommended on another website. Many states already have entirely online virtual schools setup as alternative schools pre-pandemic. Maybe transfer to one of those for the year.
Anon
When does school start for you? We’re still a month or so out and our school district has been very clear that despite their plans, things could change at any time given the state of the world.
Anonymous
Has anyone ever successfully lost weight while taking an SSRI (zoloft here)? I’ve gained about 7lbs since I’ve been on it, and would love to lose the weight but I’m not sure how possible it is when caused by medication.
Anonymous
I did but in my case the SSRI didn’t cause the weight gain in the first place; it was a pre-existing thing. Talk to your doctor about what your options are. You might be able to switch to another medication or add something like Wellbutrin.
nuqotw
Talk to your doctor. I did…because it made me sick when I started.
Anon
I went on Zoloft for about 2.5 years. I loved, loved, loved what it did for my mental health. I gained weight though, from about 122 to 140 lbs. I am petite (5’2″) so it showed. While on Zoloft, I was mellow and happy and hungry and didn’t care that I was gaining weight, until one day I really did. I went off Zoloft, anxiety came back. I am now on Effexor, which I personally am responding well to and haven’t gained weight and am able to lose weight with diet and exercise. Best of luck!
OP
When you switched meds, did the weight come off on its own or did you have to actively try to lose it through diet and exercise?
Anon
I thought the theorized mechanism was that SSRI worsened blood sugar control, so it may be an issue of watching carbs. In general, the question is HOW does the medication cause the weight gain, because sometimes there’s a way to target that physiological process (not always).
Anon
I have! It is a lot harder than it used to be and I feel like my body is working against me, but it is possible. I think something about the sertraline (generic Zoloft, what I take) slightly numbs my sense of being full.
Anon
I’ve had luck with Weight Watchers.
Anonymous
Our teachers union is demanding weekly testing of every staff member and child and a guarantee from schools that children will wear masks at all times from when they leave their house front door until they get home. In NJ. We don’t have the capacity to test at this level and schools cannot guarantee student behavior outside of school. This is a refusal to return to work in person dressed up in safety language. When schools here do not reopen, this will be why.
Anonymous
…Those demands sound reasonable to me.
Anonymous
A school cannot guarantee a child will not take off a mask between home and school. Cannot. Not possible.
If you think these demands are reasonable, you are saying schools cannot reopen in person. Which I’m actually fine with! But that’s what the unions are saying.
pugsnbourbon
“This is a refusal to return to work in person dressed up in safety language.” Do you understand that teachers are human beings, many of them with children and families of their own?
We already ask teachers to risk their lives because we can’t pass reasonable gun control laws. Now we’re placing the entire burden of saving the economy, the nation, etc. in the midst of a pandemic on people making $60k a year (and often much, much less).
I know that parents are between a rock and a hard place here, but reopening schools while many states are experiencing a spike in cases is a recipe for disaster.
anonymous
My mom is a teacher in her early 60s and the primary caregiver for my dad who has health issues. I’m very worried for her.
Anon
My mom retired a few years early for this exact reason. I suspect a lot more teachers that are retirement eligible will do just that.
Monday
+1, and good reminder that mass shootings are now a risk that teachers are supposed to accept. It’s good to see all this support for teachers today. In the recent past commenters (maybe just one very vocal one?) always painted teachers as trying to get out of working in any capacity for as long as possible. Not my experience at all!
Anon
I think they’re reasonable but unrealistic. We already can’t keep up with testing demands, so testing all employees and students weekly is not yet reasonable. Small kids aren’t going to remember to keep their mask on constantly.
However, teachers shouldn’t be forced to work in a risky environment. My mother is a teacher, who is at an elevated risk due to her terrible asthma. She assists in care taking for a high risk relative. She shouldn’t be forced to work in a risky environment. Luckily, last spring her school did online real time classes, so they’ll continue that this fall.
Teachers don’t want to not work, they just don’t want to be out at undue risk.
Administrator
I work in education and this is where I land. Reasonable but unrealistic. We aren’t operating in any sort of ideal world, and ALL of our options have terrible downsides.
anon
But can you blame them for trying? I am a parent of two school-age kids — and believe me, I desperately want them to be in classes this fall — but my teacher friends are terrified and rightly so.
Anonymous
No! I don’t! I just think they’re obfuscating the issue. This isn’t a plan to reopen. It’s a refusal to reopen. Let’s call it what it is.
Monday
Well, it’s a refusal of the (lack of) safety plan that teachers see now. I think it’s actually advancing the conversation to say under what circumstances they would be willing to work, rather than saying “we won’t do it, period.” It requires the school admin to spell out what they will or won’t do, rather than making the teachers look like the bad guys and allowing admin to just throw up their hands.
I’m in a similar position as a medical worker right now. A crucial aspect of my job is now prohibited because of Covid risks, but there’s really no plan to handle it another way or manage the consequences of it not getting done. (This is a procedure that is essential for patient safety and staff safety, as well as huge for protecting our liability for potential injuries or death.) I am considering doing the same thing these teachers have done: listing the conditions under which we could fully reopen in a way that manages this risk–while knowing that the hospital absolutely would not pay for any of them. The resolution can’t just be “oh, you guys will figure it out.”
Anon
I’m also in NJ and I’m resigned to frequent school closings, perhaps long term, if they reopen at full or close to full capacity. This is regardless of what precautions are followed, because Covid symptoms are similar to other virus symptoms so the minute anyone has a cold, school is closed. Have low expectations. You can blame the teachers but they are not driving this – the virus is.
Anon
No, that is absolutely not why. You can blame our leadership’s thoroughly pathetic response to this pandemic and the hordes of people who went to bars and clubs. Don’t blame the poor teachers, JFC.
Anon
You’re blaming the teachers who make abysmal wages and have little influence on decisions. Punching down on those who don’t have any power is unbecoming.
Anonymous
It’s NJ — they don’t make abysmal wages. My mom is a teacher there. OTOH, she hates their union and also sees it as a refusal to return to work dressed up in safety clothing. Compare this to private schools (better remote learning all around) or daycares.
Hospitals and police aren’t getting this level of protection.
Assuming NJ teachers get this, next they will dumb down their offerings in the name of equity, since they can’t teach the tech-savvy because some kids have parents who don’t care, won’t pick up a free laptop loaner and a hot spot, and won’t see that their kids log on. The first position looks like it has merit, but we saw this second instance of foot-dragging this spring and will see it this fall of they go all on-line.
busybee
Teachers don’t make abysmal wages. They’re right on par actually. The average teacher salary in the USA is $60,477. The average wage for an American with a bachelor’s degree is $59,124. In my city, the starting salary for a brand-new teacher with a bachelor’s degree is $45,360. The starting salary for a prosecutor is $52,000. Law clerks make $46,000.
Anon
Yes, this.
Then you factor in the pensions: 80% of the average of your highest three years in salary, plus COL adjustments, is an incredible benefit that dwarfs anything the private sector offers. Those ‘highest three years’ can be $80k or $90k a year, meaning the teacher is pulling down $65k a year in a pension from about age 60 until death.
Anonymous
Right.
Police, EMTs, firefighters, and sanitation workers get exposed to a lot more than teachers.
So do hospital housekeeping staff and grocery store workers, except without $$$ or pensions. Why do teachers think that they are special-er than the truly essential workers? I’m sure daycare workers and camp staff would tell them to STFU; if they don’t want it, early retirement even on a 50% pension is more than a lot of people make by . . . actually working and who don’t get summers off.
Anonymous
This is false. In some states teacher salaries are low, but usually it is only the first few years. After they get some experience, teachers make a solid salary, have an enviable pension plan, healthcare, and very generous time off. I know we are never supposed to talk about it—but teachers are doing just fine—not that the union would ever admit it. The median teacher salary in New Jersey is 64,000+.
anon
In my city, a brand new board certified teacher with a bachelors makes just over 41k. With 5 years of experience, it’s just over 52k. At 10 years, under 59k. A board certified teacher with a master’s makes, at 5 years, just over 57k. At 10 years, it’s 64+. You’ll never crack 80k, even with 30+ years of experience.
Are these abysmal salaries? I guess it depends on how you want to define abysmal. But I certainly doubt that many women here with graduate degrees would feel “just fine” about their 64k salary after 10 years.
Anon
+1 I made 64k with one year of experience and a bachelor’s degree.
Administrator
This varies immensely based on the state and area, and (understandably) right to work states have lower pay scales and benefits (many don’t have pensions anymore) even when adjusted for COL.
Anonanonanon
Yeah in Florida… We just made a big deal about raising starting salaries to 45k but there are caveats and many counties will not be able to raise to that amount. My friend who has taught for 15 years is getting a bump to 47k. I need to advise my friend to move to the 60k state, wow.
anonymous
Why do you think teachers don’t have the right to be concerned about their health and safety? Seems like you really just want to accuse teachers of being lazy and not wanting to work, which isn’t a great look.
Anonymous
I think teachers everywhere are likely to shoot themselves in the foot if they aren’t careful. Our local school system was OK with no live / zoom / other instruction this spring (some canned lectures, links to stuff on YouTube, etc.). It seems that the district was OK with this for “equity” and individual teachers who wanted to do more were smacked down.
In the real world, we have had salary cuts and have still had to do 100% (often more) of our job. Teachers did less and got their full salary in the spring. Now, tax receipts are down and costs are up and layoffs will be inevitable. With the quality of the work they are producing (on the whole, not indivudually), taxpayers will likely say good riddance and refuse to pass tax increases while their wages are down (if they themselves aren’t let go). There isn’t a lot of sympathy (and it seems earned, IMO, at least in my city and in NJ where most of my family is, including teachers looking for private employment as tutors or to move to private schools or leave the state b/c the taxes are shockingly high compared to other places (long term, perhaps accellerated b/c of all this, but not before August/September, when teachers are unlikely tomove).
pugsnbourbon
Not 100% sure what you’re trying to say here – but cutting funding for schools does more than screw over teachers. It damages the entire fabric of a community.
It’s almost like the way we fund public schools is incredibly problematic.
Anonymous
People aren’t going to cut school funding, budget shortfalls due to people losing their jobs, not being able to pay property taxes, having less sales tax receipts, etc. are going to result in less $ to spend, so my guess is that everyone is going to feel the pinch. You can cut a teacher here and a firefighter there, but at some point, if schools aren’t even open, they can’t just keep paying people as if they were (e.g., cafeteria staff, bus drivers, gym teachers, media center people). Teachers will eventually be cut. Trash collectors didn’t make the fuss that teachers did and I think people will see that they can’t live without trash collectors but have already have been living without teachers, who don’t even seem to *want* to do their jobs (which I blame on leadership, not teachers individually).
Administrator
Hello, I’m an administrator and we did NOT work less this year. We’ve all been working our asses off, and most of our teachers have had no downtime this summer between workshops and PD to adapt lessons to one of the many scenarios we might be walking into this fall. Did students receive less education this spring? YES. That’s what happens when you have 48 hours to reinvent the wheel with bad tech infrastructure in a scenario no one has ever encountered or even thought we could ever encounter. Was that because teachers were doing less work? HELL NO.
Anon
And this is the problem with a “everyone does the same thing” solution. Kids in classes 1/3 of the time is not nearly enough for parents who work and cannot leave their children unsupervised. Kids in classes 1/3 of the time is far too much for medically vulnerable children or those who live with medically vulnerable people. For teachers, some are young, healthy, and might be willing to take the risks; others cannot do so.
What we need is a policy that allows, say, medically vulnerable students (whose parents opt in) to be taught remotely by teachers who are not comfortable returning, and healthy students (whose parents opt in) to be taught in-person by teachers who want that option.
Maybe that’s not the best policy or even a good one, but c’mon, people, can we get creative and can we try to give people a few different options?
Anonymous
I mean that is exactly what my local schools are trying to do! Match up kids who want to be in school with teachers who want to be in school. But if 80% of parents want kids in school and 80% of teachers refuse, it doesn’t work.
Anon
Then you have kids sit in a classroom and the teacher comes in via Zoom.
You also make this known to the residents, who will be deciding on how to fund the schools. You don’t want to play ball, you might find residents who are no longer willing to play ball.
Anonymous
You cant have kids sit unsupervised in a classroom.
Anonymous
All the LOLs at kids sitting in a physical classroom with a teacher on Zoom. Best joke I’ve heard in a while.
Anon
Are you suggesting having a room full of kids with no in-person adult supervision?
Anon
Why do you hate teachers so much?
Anonymous
Eyeroll
Anonymous
I guess “eyeroll” is the new “eat a muffin” :(
Senior Attorney
America hates teachers so much because most of them are women.
Anon
+1
I really think this happens to most professions to the degree that women enter them (what is the status of a primary care physician, or a college professor, now vs. the time when these professions were more predominantly male?). Lawyering may be an exception.
I do think the unions are a problem (things like the “dance of the lemons” are not okay). I am so grateful to my good teachers, but at the same time I remain absolutely horrified by how bad the bad ones have been on almost any metric (but especially competence and what I would describe as bullying).
I have also often been surprised when talking to people who went to school in other countries to hear about healthier power dynamics (students with more autonomy who also respect their teachers more). The dynamic at the schools I attended was not healthy at all (fragile absolute authority, infantilization of students, mutual resentment).
busybee
Come on. We have teacher appreciation week, stores give discounts to teachers, and they receive generous pensions. Do plumbers or trash collectors get those benefits? You’re reaching a bit here.
Former teacher
When I was a teacher, here’s how that played out:
Teacher appreciation week: there’s a grocery store platter of salami and cheese and a fruit tray for 150 of you to share in the lounge from the PTA that’s been sitting there since 8 am. Hope you can get some once your planning period or lunch rolls around! Also, here’s a poster that says WE APPRECIATE YOU
Teacher discounts: I’ve never seen more than 10%, and you can only get them in person, not online for most retailers. A nice gesture, but nothing that makes any real impact in my life or offsets me paying out of my own pocket for classroom supplies and being told more and more by administrators that everything is our fault and to do more with less time to implement changes.
Teacher pensions vary WILDLY by state. As of 2016, the median teacher retiree in Idaho gets $13k per year, and in New York it’s $46k. Right to work states have severely curtailed pension systems.
Senior Attorney
We have “teacher appreciation week” for the same reason we have “administrative professionals day:” So we don’t have to pay them what they’re worth. Plumbers and trash collectors are generally at least as well paid as teachers.
Administrator
Amen, SA!
One more thing about teacher’s pensions that many don’t realize: we’re ineligible for Social Security.
Anonymous
Whether teachers are eligible for social security varies state by state actually. Only in a handful of states are teachers ineligible for SS
Seventh Sister
Also, women who might have been teachers in other generations are in other fields.So I think you now get a mix of bright, passionate people who are good teachers and people who could graduate from the training but have pretty minimal teaching skills. It’s all so frustrating.
Anon
This is basically why we have a shortage of science teachers: women who were good at math and science used to go into teaching; now they are engineers, accountants, physicians, or ER nurses.
Seventh Sister
I also wonder if it’s why the administrators (principals, etc.) in my experience are often kind of dull, rigid, and overly conservative. Women who might have been school principals and superintendents 40 years ago are now in law, business, finance, etc. And honestly my MIL (who was a school administrator) is right on one thing – some of the most average, mediocre men I’ve ever met now get fast-tracked into school administration because they can fog up a mirror and are not women.
Jeffiner
Our school district sent a survey to parents on their preferred re-opening options. It also sent a survey to the teachers, but announced the re-opening plans based on parent feedback only, they didn’t even wait for the teacher surveys to be submitted. The teachers found out the plans the same time the parents did, with the school district’s press-release.
Someone said that although teachers study and train for years for this career, we treat them as babysitters in our society. Its evident from some of these posts that people think teachers only have to provide a zoom lecture to occupy the kids and some worksheets and bam! our kids will learn. Teachers are expected to sacrifice money, respect, and now their safety “for the children.”
pugsnbourbon
+1. Exactly this.
Anon
Can we start taking these threads to the CorporetteMoms blog?
Anonymous
Those people don’t tend to have school aged children. It’s more “moms of babies.” Moms tend to drop out of the workforce in my city before their kids are old enough to read, at least in BigLaw. I am the working mom of the oldest kid (among lawyers, excluding 2 with SAHHs) and that was when my older kid was . . .9? Middle school now. It is lonely and the moms of babies have no idea — day care is 12 months a year; school isn’t like that even on a normal year.
Anon
No. Scroll past if you don’t like it.
anon
I work in education (not a teacher) and am interested in these threads, and it looks like there are teachers posting here as well, so I think these threads are fine here.
Anon
It’s going to also impact the entire workforce so anyone that works with parents of school aged kids should care.
Anon
Eyeroll.
Anon
Why eyeroll? When people in my company have to stay at home to watch their 10-year-olds, that absolutely affects how my company operates. When our suppliers have problems because their employees aren’t able to be on the manufacturing lines, that affects my company.
I’m not saying “get back to school so we can reopen the economy,” but I am thoroughly sick of how “parenting” is evaluated in a vacuum, as if it doesn’t affect everyone else.
Anonymous
100% chance that “eyeroll” is a troll.
Worried
I’m a teacher of 16 – 18 year olds and my district — in Canada— has a hybrid reopening approach of online and in person instruction. My students really missed the in class interaction and discussion. They emailed me and messaged me on their online assignments with nostalgic feelings for the group work, discussions and activities we used to do. Whenever I tried to give live instruction only a handful would turn up online. If we tried discussions online very few would talk live, and when we moved to the text chat function, a few would participate but very few.
I think there are ways to do better and engage students more online however, most are not that interested and would rather just do the assignments I post and ignore the online dynamic. When we reopened Schools in June, only two students out of 170 returned to my class— they or their parents were too afraid to return, or preferred to continue online. It was strange and sad for that one student who turned up, and while I helped them with work, we both realized it was not a good use of either of our time.
Students notice the vast difference difference between in person instruction and online. They are so used to learning in a social way. My students have stated that they prefer to do fun things online rather than schooling. I don’t have all the answers, and while my in class and live online lessons are engaging, I have to balance in class and online instruction. Many of my colleagues are struggling with this balance and they want to be as effective as possible in both arenas, while not doubling their workload.
Anonymous
No. Schools aren’t just a moms issue. Deal with it.
anon
You’re right, it’s a dads issue too. But since I am neither, I’m in favor of it being taken to the other site!
Anon
Schools aren’t just a parents issue. Unless you’re cool with an uneducated population or the massive changes that will be required if/when schools fundamentally change in the midst of this crisis. This is going to become an issue for any employer who has employees with kids, which is basically every employer.
anon
+1
anon
Yes. Please. This is why the Moms s*te was created.
Anon
Right, that’s the point. There’s so much parenthood chatter on this site when there is a separate site. Maybe the teacher union post isn’t a perfect fit for CorporetteMoms, but generally, parenthood discussions should be more directed there.
At Anon at 1:50 PM, parenthood does indeed affect all of us, because parents won’t shut up about it at work, on this site, etc. So that statement isn’t wrong, but it was ridiculous, overstated, and annoying–hence the eyeroll.
Anon
This right there is the problem. Assuming discussion about kids returning to school is a “moms” issue and not a society issue. Watch how it affects you in the workplace when tons of parents can show up to work because they have to watch their kids and then let us know how it affects your life.
Anon
Is anyone else in a long-distance relationship and being kept apart by COVID? Long-distance is hard in the best of times; having truly no idea when we’ll be able to see each other again is hard. My SO is in a grad school in Europe while I stayed in the US. His program ends next year so it’s not forever, but he didn’t come home for the summer because he worried he wouldn’t be able to get back to Europe for the fall semester. I was going to visit for an extended time this fall, but that also seems unlikely.
Commiseration?
Anon for this
I’m probably closer than most to getting what this is like.
My spouse is a marine engineer, working on commercial ships. Because of COVID, his trip has been extended months longer than we were initially told. Adding to that, there is no video chat capabilities and about 50% of the time, there is zero communication.
It sucks. It’s harder when you don’t know when the end is. I deeply love my spouse, but… the logistics truly suck sometimes.
anon
Commiseration. Just before COVID, I started a relationship with someone I’ve known and liked for a while. We spent a week skiing together in mid-February and I was head over heals after that. But, we’re halfway across the country from each other. We had plans to travel to see each other in March/April which all got cancelled due to SIP, but he was able to drive (15 hours!) to see me for 10 days in June. Being apart during SIP was really hard, but he’s really good at keeping in touch, and we even send each other old-fashioned snail mail sometimes (he’s better at this than I am). Nothing makes me happier than seeing a letter or card from him in my mailbox. :)
We’re trying to figure out how to live in the same city (or at least closer), but job changes are hard at this time (and he works for the federal government in a very specialized niche, so very slow to make a change). I’m thinking of driving the 15 hours to see him in August, but we’re both concerned that cases are spiking and more lockdowns may be coming. We’ll need to be thoughtful about how to do this. We both live alone so we’re essentially each other’s “bubble” even though we’re so far apart. When he was here, we continued to mostly isolate and just had a blissful time of cooking, gardening (literal and metaphorical, lol), hiking in the woods, and sitting on the deck drinking coffee. It was sweet. But being apart and with all this uncertainty is really hard.
anon
My sister is in the same boat. Different nationalities, so unclear when one of them can even travel to the other with all the travel and visa restrictions. It’s so hard!
Raises hand
Me. I am so bummed. He is in Australia. I would move there in a heartbeat but I am a caregiver to elderly family, so I am trapped in COVID/Trumpland.
Anonymous
Yes – I’m in a 9 month relationship. My partner lives 3 hours away but moved closer to be with parents during the pandemic. I’m a somewhat essential worker that needs to go into the office on occasion and interact with people. His parents have fragile health. We have seen each other a few times when I can self isolate for 2 weeks but I worry I might have asymptotic COVID and be transmitting it to him and his parents so I don’t know when we will see each other next. It is very very hard. I feel for you!
Anon
I read the Bari Weiss letter resignation letter yesterday and found it disturbing. The New York Times is my main newspaper, but if what she said about the working environment is true, then there is a real problem in the news we’re receiving (to say nothing of the hostile working environment – since when is it okay to say “ugh you’re writing about the Jews again”, call coworkers Nazis, and to bully them on Slack?). Self-censorship among our friends and family members is one thing, but at a leading newspaper? For the paper to be so limited in scope and fearful of the Twitter mob is honestly just really alarming – and I say that as a progressive former Bernie supporter, now Biden supporter. I don’t have any answers, but this makes me wonder whether I am getting good value for my subscription and whether I’m deluding myself by being optimistic that Biden could win. Am I just in my echo chamber again?
I feel compelled to add a bunch of clutter: I do not agree with everything Bari Weiss has ever written, but that I appreciate the opportunity to be exposed to views that differ from my own. I am sure she can find another platform for her views. I am not criticizing public commentary and legitimate opposition to her views, many of which I share – I think some of the discussions and debates she’s inspired have helped advance public discourse. I just don’t think that people should be subject to workplace harassment for having different political views and that it’s a bad thing if leading newspapers are too fearful and constrained to report on controversial topics.
https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter
Anonymous
She’s a liar. Which is clear from her body of work.
Anon
Right, and the problem is her, not her conservative ideas (see Ross Douthat’s drama-free employment at the NYT)
Anon
So what’s your position, that because you think she’s a liar (without offering evidence), workplace harassment is okay or that there are no problems with self-censorship at the NYT?
Also, hmm, I wonder why the white male doesn’t get criticized the same way. What could possibly be different between Douthat and Weiss? I’ll have to ponder that one for a while.
Anon
LOL
Anon
+1
Anonymous
duh. this can’t be the first time you have heard about how problematic the NYT is.
Anon
You can still read David Brooks, Bret Stephens, and Ross Douthat in the NYT, so you will be exposed to plenty of conservative views.
Anon
Their occasional columns are hardly enough. I also think Weiss is much more of a hard-hitting, original thinker than the others. Brooks is boring, Douthat is often a jerk, and I don’t read Bret Stephens much so don’t know anything about him.
Anon
Exactly. I like Ross Douthat, but his niche is explaining conservative ideas to conservatives, not explaining conservative ideas to liberals. Brooks is a snooze-fest who doesn’t hit the other side.
As per above, the men can express their own opinions, but the Jewish woman is harassed off the job. Problematic.
AEP
Yes, I agree that it’s concerning. I don’t agree with Tom Cotton, but I do think that his op-ed should have been published (as he is a very influential person and people should know what his views are) and that James Bennett should not have been forced to resign. The whole point of op ed sections is to publish opinions…
Just me
Thanks for the link- I do not read the NYT, but have read Bari Weiss in the WSJ. I am aghast at the polarization of our society.
The ability to express an opinion, that might be “different” is being taken away–people are afraid to speak.
Ms Weiss says it well:
“But the lessons that ought to have followed the election—lessons about the importance of understanding other Americans, the necessity of resisting tribalism, and the centrality of the free exchange of ideas to a democratic society—have not been learned. Instead, a new consensus has emerged in the press, but perhaps especially at this paper: that truth isn’t a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else.”
Vicky Austin
+1
Anon
I read it and was disturbed for the same reasons. The way the woke left has treated Bari Weiss has given me real pause. Weiss is not only a smart thinker, but a Jewish lesbian – why isn’t the left springing to her defense and excoriating the times for not “elevating LGBTQIA voices”? I’ve come to realize that it was never about elevating marginalized voices, but pushing a very specific political agenda – the second Weiss posted anything that disagreed with it, even if it was something important like extreme anti-Semitism in the Women’s March, she became persona non grata to the activists who normally trip over themselves to sniff out mistreatment based on minority status.
The problem, though, is that now I don’t know who is actually going to provide a platform for those voices. If the right doesn’t care to do so and the left only cares about voices fitting its own agenda, is there room somewhere in the middle for moderate/neither left nor right women, WOC, and other minority groups to have a platform?
Anonymous
I agree – I am a liberal who leans toward the moderate side, and I am horrified at the censorship going on. We can (and should) consider views of people who we disagree with. When the news becomes an echo chamber (for either side), we all lose. I was also strongly against the action taken regarding the Tom Cotton piece – he is a freaking senator, and we should hear and debate his views, not suppress them.
I think the resulting hostile workplace is the symptom, not the cause, but we need to stop the cancel culture in all its forms and encourage people to continue expressing diverse viewpoints.
LaurenB
I too was not happy about the action taken regarding the Tom Cotton piece. Part of why the NYTimes is the “grand old lady” of newspapers is precisely because it’s not supposed to be the echo-chamber of, say, a Fox News. I appreciated seeing the Tom Cotton piece, even though I vehemently disagreed with it, and I think it was groupthink to let the editor go.
AnonMPH
To be clear, the backlash on the Tom Cotton piece was not just about disagreeing with his opinion. It’s that his piece wasn’t properly fact checked (yes, opinion pieces are held to journalistic standards too) and therefore was giving a platform to misinformation. I think Tom Cotton sucks, I think the NYT should probably have published his Op-Ed but they certainly had a responsibility to frame it within context and work with him to edit it so it was factual. That’s why the editor had to resign.
Anon
What wasn’t fact-checked? I keep hearing that claim, but it seems pretty obvious that it wasn’t the reason for the backlash. The only thing that was debatable that I could see was whether antifa actually sends in protesters to different cities, which Cotton is certainly allowed to have an opinion about. There may be little evidence for the claim, but it’s an open question, not a flaming lie.
Anon
I’m sad but not surprised to hear this about the culture at NYT. I have long turned away from it, and this just confirmed that I made the right call canceling my subscription. I’m also a moderate liberal. It got to the point where I felt like the more I read the NYT, the more the anger at the obvious left agenda I felt was going to turn me into a conservative.
It’s also interesting that Obama chose to publish his think piece on George Floyd on Medium instead of on some outlet like the op-Ed section of the NYT. That also speaks volumes.
Anon
What are your main news outlets now? I still want to support journalism, but I’m considering whether my money might be better spent not at the Times.
Anon
I’ve switched to reading Bloomberg News now, which I find to be a lot more diverse and interesting.
In terms of morning news podcast, I’ve switched over to BBC News and the Economist’s Intelligence podcasts.
anon
If you can, subscribe to some smaller local publications. Local reporting is more important than ever, it’s in dire need of subscriptions, and of course they will still print the national news as well.
Aunt Jamesina
NPR and the BBC are wonderful!
anon
NPR, PBS News, BBC, The Guardian, and my local paper (paper subscription! love reading w a coffee)
Anonymous
+ 1, I used to read the NYT but dropped it because it’s not balanced reporting. I don’t watch Fox and I don’t want a liberal counterpart to Fox, I want thoughtful reporting that is fact based and inclusive of a range of views. Any suggestions?
Anon
In what world is the NYT a “liberal counterpart to Fox”? Come on now.
Anonymous
Seriously? Just read the coverage on the protests; it’s just as imbalanced as Fox. The article about the white gun owners in St. L doesn’t contain a single “fact” not supportive of the “protestors”, who were on private property heading to the Mayor’s personal residence. Or read about the cancellation of an editor due to publishing a conservative senator’s views. The op ed should have been accompanied by a sidebar with legal experts on both sides discussing the standard for imposition of martial law, and not been the basis for the editor being fired.
anon
I don’t know if this is a WFH problem or just general fatigue about the state of the world, but I have been really off my game at work for the past 3 weeks or so. I have dropped the ball a few times (luckily nothing huge), which is unlike me, and I am struggling with decisions big and small. Which is a big problem when you’re leading a team. :( I’m exercising daily, sleeping fine, and eating well. Yet I find myself running out of steam early in the afternoon, if not before, and I’m falling behind as a result.
I am anxious and stressed about the state of the world and have tons on my mind about how my family is going to handle the school year. It’s affecting my output and work quality. How do I get back on track?
givemyregards
No groundbreaking advice but commiseration – I am also exercising daily , sleeping well, eating relatively healthily, etc. etc. and every once in a while the repetitive daily grind of this COVID existence just gets to me and I can only do the bare minimum for a few days (or a week). My strategy is to make a list of things that absolutely have to get done and then do pomodoro technique until I get those things done and otherwise just go easy on myself. Usually by not forcing it, I’ll get at least one or two super productive days in a week and that has kept me relatively on track.
If you know that you run out of steam early in the afternoon, can you prioritize your to-do list such that you focus on the most important tasks early in the day and then have a separate list of “would be good to get to but not super essential” that you can meander through during the afternoon?
anon
Also no advice but I’m in the same boat. I don’t even have to worry about kids. I was doing remarkably well for a while, but for the past few weeks I’ve just been feeling this vague malaise and undercurrent of anxiety and irritability, and just working at anywhere between 30-70% my normal motivation. Which compounds the malaise. I really think that, especially as an over thinker whose brain is hardwired to scan my world for problems, the low level hum of stress and uncertainty is starting to grind me down.
anon
For me (also feel like I should be ok, because no kids, no imminent worry about high risk or high exposure family, stable job that I can do from home indefinitely), I seem to oscillate between normal and low-energy days. About 2 days every week it’s so much harder to get motivated. The uncertainty is definitely touch on my planner-brain.
anon
It’s not just a work from home thing. I’ve returned to work, and honestly, my work product has suffered in the last 3-4 weeks. My job requires attention to detail, and I’ve been missing stuff. I’ve spent hours at a time zoned out. I can’t seem to find the right language when I’m drafting. I’m missing soft deadlines.
I’m also stressed about the state of the world. More specifically, I’m worried for my parents, who aren’t taking Covid all that seriously. I’m worried for my son, who has special needs and needs in-person school and in-person therapy services. I’m worried about getting sick myself, since my employer required us all to return to work. I’m worried about losing my job, either because I get sick and miss too much work or because my work is crappy lately.
Anon
I often run out of steam around that time, too. At work, I have the commute to work, chats around the coffee maker, walks to different people’s offices, maybe go out for lunch, to break up the monotony of the day. At home, I… pet the cat. At this point, I’ll just go for a walk if I need to stretch out, relax my mind, or whatever.
Away Game
Absolutely agree. I don’t know where I left my motivation, but I cannot seem to find it. Also just these last 3-4 weeks. I’m making decisions, doing what is probably just a bit above the minimum, but don’t really care all that much. It’s like I’m totally disconnected from the job. I’m not sure if my team is feeling the same, since we don’t see each other (Zoom had turned back to conference calls by popular demand), and everyone is performing… perfectly adequately. We used to be high performing, motivated, kind of “loud” and energetic in our work.
Vicky Austin
Let me know if you figure it out; I’m similarly way out of it and just cannot phone it in anymore.
Anonymous
+1 The only thing that has helped me is that I picked a week to take off at the end of July and am holding firm to that boundary. If you can at all swing taking some vacation days, I would do it.
Anon
I don’t know. I was doing really well WFH in March and April. I think it’s getting to me that cases are rising where I live, and there’s no real leadership or plan for getting back to normal. Before I was rising to the challenge against an external threat that I was sure we could defeat. Now I’m feeling trapped by the bad choices of other people with no end in sight. I’m high risk, so that may be adding to the stress and isolation. But I really hoped we would be in a better place by now than this.
Anonymous
This is really grating on me, too. Every day there is new information about our bungled response, with cases and hospitalizations and deaths rising. It feels a bit hopeless with no end in sight, at least with our current administration.
Ther
+1 Well said, I thought we would handle this like other countries and have a shutdown and then limited cases with tracing. Instead, we have blown the gains from the shutdown and people are dying unnecessarily.
pugsnbourbon
My mantra has been “a little bit is better than nothing.”
Anon
I find switching the location where I work to be key. Today around 4pm I hit this tired stage. Then I grabbed a blanket and went to work at a local park. I suddenly became the most productive I have been a week once I moved there.
Anonymous
I am so glad you posted this. I have days where I am fine and days where I am completely fried by the constant low level stress.
Anon
I’m still a little confused by yesterday’s school conversation.
It seemed as though several people were saying that online live instruction will not be perfect, so why bother trying. Obviously, in person school is best for students, parents, and teachers but that’s just not realistic for many of us this year.
In my mind online classes are infinitely better than Khan Academy and worksheets even if kids are distracted or parents need to trouble shoot tech or kids misbehave.
Yes, it might not be realistic everywhere, but for schools where it is feasible I don’t see the opposition*. Yes, in a perfect world its a crappy option, but in this current reality it’s the best option we have.
*i understand the inequality issue of schools who can do this vs schools who can’t and that this would widen the gap. Just another reason why school funding shouldn’t be tied to zip code and SES!
Anonymous
Do you just fail the kid who never shows up for online instruction because they don’t have a parent who helps?
Anon
If the parent doesn’t help with online instruction, are they going to help obtain, ensure the completion of, and turn in worksheets or assignments? Probably not. Do you fail that kid then?
Anonymous
I doubt the kid would get failed. But at a certain point, this happens with even in-person education. We don’t hold the whole rest of the school and the district back on account of it though. Not until now.
No Face
You could send them to jail if you want!
Propublica has an article about a 15 year old who failed to login for her live classes. A judge considered it a violation of her probation, and now she is in juvenile detention.
Anon
I am pretty sure we have been failing kids whose parents don’t help for a long time now.
Anonymous
+1
Anonymous
I mean yes, failing to rescue them from their parents
Anon
I have many reasons behind my opposition to online schools. My kids are early elementary. They will not sit still for a 20 min FaceTime with grandparents. Sitting for 60-90 minutes of daily instruction over Zoom will be miserable for all of us.
But on top of that, I am not a teacher. I have a full time job that is expecting full output (we can argue whether this is reasonable, but it’s the reality if I want to keep my job). The other 120 minutes of “independent study” aka worksheets and projects will all fall on me to facilitate for two different kids (one of whom is K and just learning to read). Our state has also recommended 120 minutes of physical/emotional learning, aka PE and Brain Breaks and Art and nutrition, which would also fall on me. I am a poor and inefficient teacher so what is on paper 4-6 hours between the two kids would likely end up taking additional time. I cannot do that and also get my paying job done, even if I work from home or shift my hours, as it’s not possible to expect humans to work 16+ hours for days on end. (I’m not in Big Law and do not get paid the money to “offset” such a request.)
Online instruction is just not possible for working parents. And I’m lucky to have a stable internet connection, headphones for all, and enough room for all three of us to have space to work on laptops/ Chromebooks. As you mentioned, the impossibilities stack up for those lower on the SE scale.
Anon
Totally understand the issue with young children. Out of curiosity, what are they doing while you work.
I 100% get that parents are not teachers and that’s why I’m against the worksheets only approach, as i feel as that puts a burden on the parents to be the teacher which should not happen.
My thought process is that in person school is not realistic, not doing anything is not realistic, and that online school is the lesser of two evils since without it parents would have to do a lot more teaching and supervising
anon
I think you’re right for older kids. I don’t know enough about kids at different ages to know when online instruction would be better than in person instruction.
I have a rising kindergartner. To be honest, I think it would be more efficient for DH and I to teach him ourselves than to try to facilitate Zoom instruction and worksheets. Like the poster above, my kid won’t pay attention to a relative on Zoom. I feel like any Zoom instruction would be a fight over paying attention to the Zoom rather than learning the actual content. Also, young children learn a lot with materials and manipulables, and you’d have to have those at home and work with those in person to simulate a classroom environment.
I’ve looked around at pre-Covid home school curricula and schedules, and most parents do formal instruction for like 1.5-2 hours a day for kindergarten and add time as kids get older. It’s more efficient when you’re tailoring instruction to one child and not worrying about the distractions and behavior of a group. Of course, in an ideal home school setup, you’re also reading books, playing outside, doing art projects and science experiments, taking field trips, etc., but if both parents are WFH, that’s not going to happen whether you’re teaching yourself or facilitating Zoom and worksheets.
Anonymous
How do you weigh the risks and limitations of in-person instruction during a pandemic though? Obviously the school system is not designed for social distancing, children are imperfect hand-washers & mask-wearers and so on. Parents work schedules will be disrupted as schools will likely have partial schedules & unscheduled shutdowns, buses are unavailable in many districts, etc.
Anonymous
FWIW, I have been sending my kids to camp this summer. If we are online in the fall (really: next month), I will be hiring our down-the-block high schooler to come over and mind my kids’ virtual learning as best as she can (she has to do it too) and help them out with math (which I can do, and probably help her, but I’m busy with MY job, which is not this additional job). Ugh. So good for high school kids needing employment — they can get all the hours they want probably. The parents of toddlers on my street with closed daycares are desperate. They may even hire MY kids as mothers’ helpers (10 and 12, so not helpless, VERY happy to take direction from non-parents, and can fix snacks and supervise in-yard playing and remind kids to wipe and wash hands after bathroom trips).
Anon
For those who say kids won’t sit still for online instruction, how do they sit still in a classroom for instruction?
Jeffiner
A teacher in yesterday’s thread had a really good answer to this. She’ll stand next to the kid, ask them a question, ask them to summarize someone’s response, modify her plans (go from a group assignment to pairs), call the student out, send them to the office, etc. Basically teachers supervise the whole class and respond as needed, while teaching.
Administrator
That was me, thank you :-)
Another part of the reason this is so hard is that teaching now (even in high school) isn’t the “teacher lectures at the front of the room while students take notes” model that so many of us remember. It’s much more focused on problem solving and has students taking the lead on inquiry and discovery, which is much more effective and impactful but also REALLY, REALLY hard to do in an online format while monitoring student working and assessing their individual progress. You can’t circulate around the room observing student work and discussion while giving directed questions to students that meet them where they are.
Most Zoom type learning turns school into a lecture format, which is both far less engaging and can be just a readily be done asynchronously… which many teachers found out this past spring when they would host class and students would opt to just “catch up” on the lecture/discussion on their own schedule (or passively watch without engaging in the teacher’s questions or discussions).
anon
In the younger grades, they AREN’T sitting still in a classroom all the time! They are getting up, doing group learning, doing hands-on stuff. Also, being in front of a screen requires a level of attention that is not really comparable to being engaged face-to-face. My incoming kindergartener does fantastic in her preschool classroom and has no trouble listening and following the teacher’s directions. On Zoom or Facetime? She’s a disaster and is bouncing all over the place.
Anonymous
They have supervision
anon
I’m the poster above (and from yesterday) with a 5-year-old rising kindergartner. He does not sit still for in person instruction, and he’s not expected to. There are no desks in the classroom, just activity tables, and a variety of seating. For classroom instruction, teachers either teach in “circle time” or pull kids in small groups to a table, where they work with manipulatives or do an activity. I am sure there is plenty of wiggling and squirming. Teachers have multiple strategies for redirecting if a kid is not focused. There are also co-teachers or assistants in the classroom if kids need more redirection/discipline. When kids aren’t part of the small group, they’re set up at other tables doing activities, supervised by the co-teacher or assistant. There is also time built in for physical activity.
Anon
This is bringing back so many memories of how much I disliked kindergarten. I know there’s a lot of research supporting this approach (and my teacher was a celebrity in her field at the time), but I remember it as chaotic.
Anon
Peer pressure is a powerful thing, but it only works for a limited time. Little kids move around a lot.
No Face
I was confused by yesterday’s school conversation, but in the opposite direction.
To me, online live instruction is more difficult to manage. In my social circle, having 3-4 kids is normal. Managing all the times they have to be logged on, having space for all of them to do it separately so they can hear, having enough devices, etc was difficult. Even my SAHM friends gave up.
I only have one school aged kid, and she’s only 4. Her teachers made weekly packages of individualized activities and delivered/mailed them to students’ houses. The activities required adult interaction, but I could do it when the timing made sense for us. The teachers also made on-demand videos (e.g. daily music, daily story time). The teachers also hosted live zoom sessions, but my 4 year old became inconsolable seeing her teachers and classmates. She would have meltdowns all day after seeing them, so we stopped.
I think on-demand instruction with the ability to do daily “office hours” or “study halls” to get additional help makes more sense than extensive live-instruction. Just my two cents.
anon
My oldest kid was old enough to handle his own log-ons and such, and it was still a bear to keep track of when he needed to be online and to make sure he was actually doing the work. I really don’t know how parents with multiple kids made it work. Now I have a rising kindergartener and there is no way she’d be able to do remote instruction without a parent being by her side every minute. I saw enough with her preschool Zoom meetings to know that’s a fool’s errand for littles. (We stopped doing them after awhile because she also found them very upsetting.)
Look, I’m lucky and privileged and can WFH. And if my family is finding this enormously difficult, even with our privilege, something is seriously wrong.
Anon
Because people here for some reason think they are entitled to whatever they demand and also that teachers are universally lazy, horrible people?
anon
The teacher blame on this site is getting really old. Blame leadership, administrators, the district, whatever. I truly believe that 99% of teachers were doing the best with the limited time and resources they had, and yet they get sh!t from every corner of the internet. Just, stop.
Anonymous
Fine, but the teachers unions are ridiculous.
Anonymous
Look to yourselves, parents. Keeping your child and family safe should be the priority. And that is not going to happen in an in-person classroom. Is that a failure? Well, school buildings weren’t designed for a pandemic & they’re going to be redesigned to accommodate one the few short weeks remaining. You can rail against the failing all you want, just don’t send your kids to slaughter because you’re in denial about the circumstances.
Anonymous
I’m taking tomorrow and Friday off. I’ll be helping an older family member – doing her yard work – who doesn’t have internet and lives in an area with poor cell reception. I feel so guilty. I’m a lawyer, out ten years, and hate taking time off because clients hate it (I’ve had 9 requests for calls those days in the last 24 hrs). How do I learn to chill out about this? I know it’ll take time and won’t be tomorrow or anything
anonymous
You feel guilty about taking two days off work? It seems like law is such a toxic environment and I’m sorry you feel this way.
Unless your clients are working on the cure for cancer or covid, I can’t imagine what is so important that can’t wait a couple of days. I’m not in law this attitude probably sounds ridiculous to lawyers.
I guess just try to prepare as much as possible in advance and try to work evenings/weekends to catch up.
Anon
+1 Law is so toxic and most of it is literally not important at all. I am always so confused why it treated like life or death, law is not medicine or LE or first responders, if you leave it, it will still be there when they return.
Anon
+1, if this board has taught me anything, it’s that I dodged a huge bullet by not pursuing law
Anon
+1. Law is important, sure, but I’ve been baffled by the threads here saying “yes, of course you have to cancel your vacation, it’s biglaw” and “yes, of course they own you, it’s biglaw.” Whether the pressure is real or self-imposed, it sounds hellish for something that isn’t even brain surgery levels of important.
Anonymous
It’s self-important.
Anon
Both things are true at once: it’s not open-heart surgery, but it’s also crucial to provide good client service. The real issue is that clients are paying through their eyeteeth for your time, and people with very little work experience are not really worth $200,000 a year, so… you make up for it in availability and hours.
busybee
Because many lawyers, especially in big law, have inflated egos and are convinced that their work truly does make the world go around.
LaurenB
Yes. The “prestige” of big-law is mostly in the minds of those who are in it, who think that the peons of the world are impressed with these law firms, which truth be told the average educated upper-middle class professional really isn’t any more impressed by lawyers than any other educated upper-middle class professional position.
Of Counsel
I do not think that is (entirely) fair. There are certainly lawyers like that. But there are also a LOT of clients who take the position that they are paying for 24/7/365 access and like to demand it even when it is not really necessary.
I would estimate 1/100 client calls/emails are actually emergencies (if that) but many think they are all emergencies and if their lawyer is not available, they will find someone who is. And the higher the hourly rate, the more likely they are to feel that way.
Which is why I am not in Big Law. My clients (or at least their general counsel) know the difference between a “I know you are on vacation but OMG nobody sent me this complaint and we are in default” and “I need to talk to you but it will wait until next week.”
TheElms
As Of Counsel says the reason we work ridiculous hours and struggle to take vacation is because of client demands, the overall work load (expectation of hitting a certain number of billable hours, doing a certain amount of business development, pro bono, service to the firm, and just regular admin to get the job done that totals for most around 2400-2800 hours a year) combined with because of our salaries / hourly rate we are expected to be available close to 24/7/365. I’m under no illusion that 99% of what I do is really that important or time sensitive.
anon
Also +1 to what OfCounsel and TheElms said. I am a lawyer and have worked with a lot of different lawyers. Only one– who was an absolutely narcissist in all senses of the word– thought he made the world go round. Some others had egos but not because they were lawyers, rather, because they were working for a prestigious nonprofit on important issues. Everyone else worked as hard as they did because of client demands and to meet the firm’s demands. It also doesn’t take a huge ego to acknowledge the reality that–sometimes– your work may actually be very important to your client. If you’re on a deal and need to draft xyz by such and such time, it has to get done. Does it matter to the turning of the world? No, but it is essential to the transaction and which may matter greatly to the client. They pay us to make it happen. We owe fiduciary duties to them. So it merits being taken seriously.
Meara
Lol. My clients ARE working on a cure for cancer and people still take plenty of time off. Sure there are deadlines where you wouldn’t, but usually someone else can cover or it can wait.
Anonymous
This is not really true in my practice. There is usually no one who can cover for me and i have enough deadlines that most things actually cannot wait. They could from a theoretical perspective, but because of how firms, courts and adversaries function, and because we get paid by the hour, they can’t. It’s awful and I would never encourage anyone to become a lawyer.
Anon
This isn’t the only way to practice law, though.
Anonymous
Agree completely, but it is pervasive. Lawyers set up the system this way.
CountC
Is there no one who can cover for you? I never feel guilty about taking time off, now granted I am in-house, but you’d think the sky is always falling. Either my boss or my colleague in the UK covers for me, but I don’t actively include their names in my OOO. People either wait, or they escalate to my boss because they know him but if it’s not urgent he isn’t answering it either.
Anon
If you can’t take two days of leave without feeling guilty, you need a new job
Maudie Atkinson
Amen.
Jeffiner
I’m not a lawyer, but I know that whenever I take time off, be it a few days or a few weeks, everything is back to normal within a week of my return. Calls get made, emails are sent, and everything starts moving forward again, no one is holding a grudge about the time missed.
The original Scarlett
So I’m a lawyer and a client and if I suggest a time for a call and you’re on vacation, I don’t care, we can talk when you get back. My view is if I need someone 24/7, I’ll pay for that by hiring a firm with bench strength to handle things that come up. If it’s not critical, it’s just calendaring. Everyone needs time off and it’s nothing to feel guilty about. For the posters asking about vacation in biglaw, there is a difference when you’re starting out at a handful of firms that pay double the market for you to be available. The bargain is you do that for a few years and then have a lot more career options, and you get paid to be on call 24/7 so dropping out for even a week where you can’t be reached is problematic. But for most legal careers and once you hit a seniority point to not be on call constantly, taking vacation is fine. You might still need to check email or take an emergency call, but that’s the case with a lot of professions. To the OP, try to take guilt completely out of the equation and look at it for what it is, which is merely a scheduling issue.
Airplane.
+1. I am a lawyer and a client and 100% agree. And I also used to be in Biglaw and I also agree with your explanation of that. The reason you make 180k straight out of school is because you are available. You pay your dues for a few years and make a decision (or it’s made for you by your firm) whether you want to rise up and get ppl under you to manage this and still make the money.
As a client now, I only pay biglaw rates if I need that level of service. For most things I don’t and so, I don’t.
Never too many shoes...
OP, 10 years out means you are senior enough to feel zero guilt about managing your work to fit into your life. You are not a junior struggling to get respect and gain trust. Just have your assistant respond that you are not available but have time next week on x date and move on with your life. So little of what we do is actually urgent and the more clearly you see that, the happier you will be.
Blueberries
I agree with Never too many shoes. Also, from a client perspective, I want good lawyers who have enough of a life that it’s sustainable for them to continue practicing. The expectation of constant availability (emergencies aside) weeds out a lot of good lawyers and has a disparate impact on women. Do I love the rare lawyer who is excellent and always available? Of course. However, I worry that the lawyer will leave private practice.
Given a choice, I want a really excellent lawyer who takes time to have a life. I don’t want a mediocre/burned out lawyer whose main strength is always being available. Many biglaw firms supply a lot of the latter, though.
anon
It’s all about setting and sticking to boundaries. Your clients will learn, in time. But you have to teach them.
Marie
The way to handle this is to treat it how you would handle any other conflict on your calendar when someone wants to schedule a call with you and you already have something scheduled. You respond that you are unavailable on Friday, but you have availability on Monday at 3 or Tuesday at 9. There is nothing to feel guilty about and your clients won’t “hate it.” Often, these are stories we tell ourselves that are not actually true. Just handle the time away from office for vacation the way you would if you were in mediation for a day, and move the calls to another day. Your clients are not entitled to every waking moment of your life and you do not need to justify your availability to them. If you are otherwise available to them and communicate an alternative time for the call, they will be just fine.
Anon
Does anyone have an office shed for lack of a better term? Down the road I’d like to transition to a position that is about 40-80% time and is fully remote + work travel (I know this job exists – it’s relatively common in my field, so finding a job like that shouldn’t be a huge problem). Working from home now is proving to me that I need some separation between work and home.
This is purely fantasy at this point (and I realize that there’s a lot of boring logistics such as zoning, foundations, running electricity to the shed, etc that would need to be worked out; I’m not ready for those details yet).
Anon
Not what you asked, but where do you find these jobs?
Anon
Also someone recommended using an RV for this if you have the parking space.
Anon
My field is emergency management / disaster response / humanitarian aid.
There are a lot of part time surge positions, some of which involve working remotely and some of which involve deploying to disaster sites (domestic and international). They’re feast or famine though; you might work 100 hour weeks at times, and you might go months without working (so 40-80% would be per year not per week).
The work itself is very specialized and is not for everyone. These dream positions are usually for senior level SMEs. A lot of people semi retire and then work in surge positions, since the work/money is not guaranteed.
My plan is to do my 20 years at my current job, get my pension (currently in local government) and then do this for 10-15 years. Obviously, that’s all dependent on my financial and family situation at the time.
Anonymous
Given this, an RV office sounds perfect, especially if you can reconfigure it to live and work in it when you’re on the road and then just work in it when you’re home.
OP
This would actually be harder than one would think.
Anon
How is an office shed easier than an RV? An RV is essentially already a “tiny house” whereas a shed would need to be insulated, have some sort of electricity figured out, and permits would need to be pulled. I have a solar charger for my RV or can plug it right into an outlet in my home via the window.
anon
An office shed? There must be a better term. Are you suggesting construction of a separate building that will be used solely as an office?
Anonymous
There’s a worse term, a she-shed.
Anon
I’ve seen them called studio sheds. A small structure in your yard to use as an office. You could construct one but I would prefer pre-fab.
Think a she-shed but used as an office
Pods
They definitely make them. Here’s an example: https://www.autonomous.ai/zen-work-pod
I’ve never used but it looks interesting!
The other option is if there’s a co-working space nearby
The original Scarlett
My brother in law has one in their backyard, it’s a great solution if you have room. He got something pre-fab and the company installed it in a day or two. It’s lovely inside – airy and light, I’d love one but don’t have space.
Anon
I explored an office shed at first, but then for various reasons bought a camper (Coleman 17B) for under $11,000. Far more functional, and will allow us to travel with it. It’s worked beautifully, except for when I’m in the middle of a Zoom meeting and a neighbor’s lawn crew shows up.
Anokha
There was a NYTimes article about that today, and I was drooling at some of the pictures: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/realestate/coronavirus-backyard-shed-office.html
Anonymous
I don’ t but recently started fantasizing about such a thing. It would be possible (and potentially beautiful) on my property (though well out of my current budget) and makes me less ambivalent about a recent change to zoning that would make it permissible for me to have this structure. I would love for it to be multi-purpose – office, gym, garden lounge.
Anon
My dream is an office shed, greenhouse, & plunge pool/outdoor shower in one corner of the yard. Zoning is the limitation….I can dream, though!
Anon
Did anyone read the excerpt of Big Friendship by Aminatou Sow and Ann Friedman on The Cut? Thoughts? I appreciate their commitment to their relationship, but I find their friendship dynamic less than healthy:
https://www.thecut.com/2020/07/book-excerpt-big-friendship-by-aminatou-sow-ann-friedman.html#comments
Cb
I’ve always found them really intense. I like the focus they put on friendship and the need for society to recognise friendships as valuable and meaningful things, not just a prelude to marriage, but I guess I never thought my friendships should be that much work?
Anonymous
Yeah I’m just not here for it. I have one black friend. I only have 5 close friends! Sorry I’m not popular and making friends is hard for me. If a friend tells me it’s my responsibility to personally go out and Make Black Friends oh well. Not doing it.
Meara
It’s interesting (I’ve never listened to their podcast)…I get the issue described but am not sure what the optimal response should have been for the party if Ann didn’t make the guest list. Say to birthday girl “don’t you have any PoC friends?”? Invite some of her own PoC friends just so there were some at the party even if they don’t know the birthday girl? I guess warn her friend that she’d be the only PoC but maybe she didn’t know the full list or know everyone invited and their race, or if some other PoC rsvpd but didn’t show? Totally understand the “don’t want to be the only one” feeling. And if it was Ann’s party, yes. But being someone else’s party, it makes me wonder how it would best be handled!
anon
I’m not familiar with the authors but that was a very convoluted, hard-to-follow read.
Anon
One of my closest inner-circle friends was black. She died. I miss her every day. Am I supposed to go out and find a replacement black friend now?
My dead friend would be laughing her a$s off at that idea.
Doodles
I don’t understand what Ann should have done in this situation. It wasn’t her party! Even if she reviewed the guest list of what sounds like a big party, how could she have known the race of everyone on the list? Are we assuming that she knew everyone invited since this was a close friend she was hosting this party for? Should she have quickly invited another black friend before her black friend arrived, when she realized that all the arriving guests were white? This whole story is ridiculous and I for one, don’t think any relationship/friendship should be this much work. Hosting a party or a brunch or any other social gathering is not the same as planning a conference.
anon
This particular article is a bit weird, but I am a regular listener to Call Your Girlfriend, their podcast, and enjoy it a lot. They do interviews and talk about current events, it’s not just about their friendship, and their banter is nice. I read some of the comments below and I think the crux of the issue with this incident as described is that Aminatou had the experience that Ann has friends who only have white friends, and I can see how as a POC, when you have white friends, you might assume that the white friend’s friends also have POC friends. Take others examples – you person A have x trait/identity. You have friend B who does not, but you assume friend B’s friends also know x trait people. It’s a complex situation, but many commentors say ‘friendship shouldn’t be this hard!’ but of course friendships, like all relationships, have their difficult moments, but to say we should throw friendships away instead of navigating through the difficult moments is ridiculous (and, kind of makes you a bad friend…)
Real Estate Anon
Did you know your house was going to be a money pit before you bought it? [I get it – most houses are money pits.]
DH and I toured a house yesterday (in hot northern NJ market). 1936 colonial on nice block, with jitney shuttle around corner to midtown express train into Manhattan. Unlike DH, I’ve never lived in an old home, and while most of it was updated (bathrooms, kitchen, deck), I panicked when we got out of there. I don’t know enough to suss out structural issues. I know this is why inspectors exist (including separate inspectors for structural matters). Like, I tried to look for cracks in basement, cracks in plaster on second floor, but …. largely clueless here. Is this normal?
anon
Old house requires maintenance and investment to fix things that deteriorate over time. That’s normal and that’s what inspectors are for.
Anon
You looking for cracks and trying to suss that out on your own is a fool’s errand. Like, there could be cracks in the plaster that mean nothing alarming. Do you feel like you need to waive your inspection and that is what is causing anxiety? If so, did the sellers get a recent thorough inspection at least (I know, better to get your own, but better than nothing)? Otherwise, get a trustworthy inspector and trust them if you are serious about it.
Signed, owner of a 1922 home
Real Estate Anon
OP here
No way would we waive inspection, although we are open to inspection credit as part of our offer if the house is right. Our last offer wasn’t accepted (it was ranked 5 of 7 offers received in two days), and I believe the winning offer waived inspection, waived appraisal and threw in a whole bunch over asking price to seal the deal.
The current owners moved in to the house in 2015, and from the disclosures document, nothing major stands out to us (nor to my father in law who is handy at home improvement and generally awesome with maintaining old houses).
I think it was the floors that concern me. Beautiful original hardwood floors, but (for example) some sloping/sagging (?) in corner of first floor living room. When I walked between the foyer and the living room, standing between the two spaces was higher/sturdier than the middle or corner of the living room.
Anonymous
Gently, it sounds like an older home is not for you if uneven floors and not having a chimney inspected are giving you this much anxiety. Older homes need big ticket repairs at some point, but they’re better built overall than post-world war II homes tend to be.
Anon
That sloping/sagging is common in old houses, due to settling, and most of the time is long-standing. You’re looking for evidence that it is new/on-going, like cracks in the walls/ceiling, etc. You can try to get a sense of how long ago it settled by fixture updates that accommodate it. For example, if molding from the 70s is scribed to the sag, it’s been there (and stable!) since at least then. My 1930 house had this, and it is NBD. Also – structure in a old house may or may not be a big deal. You can also pay for an inspection before you put the offer in, so you know if you can waive the contingency safely. We did this with a house we didn’t end up buying, and I’m happy to have avoided a bidding war on that lemon. It also made me more confident in waiving the contingency on my current house.
CountC
+1 my very old hardwoods in my 1906 house had this and it’s NBD.
Veronica Mars
Yeah, a house that old could very well be a money pit. Our house was built in the late 80s, and it was clear it was a winner. You can pull the permits for the things done to the house. Ours had so many permits for improvements and other things (better drainage, porch add on) that the “effective age” of the house is 2005. New roof, new gutters, etc. All of our inspectors were impressed with it, they said “this is one of those houses where I almost have to make stuff up on the report” (he was kidding, he did find a few things). Obviously our home isn’t built to code and he pointed those things out to us (our kitchen ventilation is nonexistent, there aren’t enough smoke detectors, for example). So I think it’s very clear if the previous owners did things right, and spent the money on the house, or if it was just a surface flip.
Anon
I prefer old houses, so I think I’m willing to do a bit more upkeep to have the history and character that you don’t get in newer houses. You may disagree and that’s fine.
However, older houses were built better than most newer houses. Many developers are now doing things on the cheap and I have heard plenty of horror stories about things going wrong and needing fixing / replacement in newer houses. From a fire standpoint, newer houses burn much faster than older ones.
Anon
+1 my 115 year old home is built so well the inspector said he’d actually be interested in owning it himself. The quality of everything is just so much higher than new builds. You just don’t get a lot of things like solid wood doors and multi layer brick exteriors or solid brass fixtures anymore.
The original Scarlett
Another older home fan here, but they can come with expensive issues. Ours needed an electrical update and still needs a sewer lateral replacement (the main part of the house sewage that connects to the city line that are often original to the house). Other things are windows get old and need replacing (or they have a ton of character and you live with some drafty-ness, we do a combo). Structural issues in foundations are less common (things tended to be build better, but lots of variables here), and look for leaks/ newer kitchen renos that might have been poorly done). Overall though you get a lot of character and a solid house. With owning in general it’s good to plan for issues. Know how recently things were fixed – roofs, electrical, plumbing, etc.
Real Estate Anon
OP here – You’re all so helpful.
Thanks. At the price point, this home gives us flexibility to maintain, fix, and make upgrades.
I don’t know much about electrical, except the home we toured has 100-amp service with plenty of room to add circuit breakers in fuse box (DH looked at it closely). It’s a 1800 sq foot home.
I’m annoyed at the disclosures document because the home has a working fireplace, but the current owners wrote that they don’t know when the last time they had the flue inspected…. makes me wonder what else they didn’t do.
Anonymous
I guess that’s not that big of a deal to me? I have lived in my 100+ year old house 6 years and used the fireplace for the first time this year. (Babies were crawling around for most of that time, and we didn’t feel comfortable using it until now.). Not everyone uses one. I love our old house. We’ve had a couple expensive issues, but nothing crazy—all part of owning a home. Hire an inspector.
Anon
There’s probably a lot they didn’t do, which is typical of many homeowners. That’s why you get the inspection. Oh and I think you need to upgrade to 200 amp
The original Scarlett
FWIW, at a certain point you do just stop using the fireplace. Our home is over 100 years old, and last time I had a chimney person out they said it probably needs a total redo to be safe. So we don’t use it because the cost of fixing that isn’t worth it. Doesn’t matter though – I burn candles in there in the winter and it’s cozy. Long way of saying a lack of chimney inspecting isn’t negligent homeownership. It’s something I’d put in the “nice to have if you care” bucket, and there’s other solutions like running a gas line and making a gas fireplace (also spendy and we don’t care enough to do it since it’s not cold here). A 100 amp box is likely a little underpowered – I’d be more concerned about that and ask questions around upgrading it (a new breaker can work but depends on how much the power lines can handle in the home)
Anon
Just to put it out there, you’re going to have to pick your battles here. We have an in theory working fireplace that we don’t get regularly inspected because we have used it 0 times and plan to use it 0 times given the abundance of CA spare the air days and little kids running around. We will note it in our disclosures when we sell that we haven’t used it, and if that’s an important feature to the new buyers they can mentally include that in their budget/thought process. I think the reality is most these days would probably rather convert it to a gas insert if they were really intent on having a fire in there, which we are not going to do, but if the new buyer wants to, great.
Anon
My parents use their fireplace probably 4 times a week during winter (about 4-5 months here). They don’t have it inspected as often as they should on paper, since they use it so often they’d know if there was an issue (and they’re annoyingly frugal about things like that).
Anon
+1 to 11:15. The list of things a home owner in theory could probably get inspected on the reg, and how frequently, is mind boggling. You could probably spend half your days having someone over to inspect something if you ran down the list year after year. In addition to the actual things that come up that need repair. People just don’t have the endless time and money to do all of it (note, these appointments almost always are middle of the day weekdays). OP, it sounds like your father in law is knowledgeable, ask him about what he would actually expect a homeowner to do regularly, or ask what he actually does regularly, and go from there. Don’t be spooked by too much not getting everything regularity inspected or you will never end up with a house.
Anon
Agreed on picking your battles! Once you own a home you will understand how it is that they’ve never had the flue inspected.
Anon
If you aren’t using the fireplace, you don’t tend to inspect the flue. I think a lot of owners fit into that category who otherwise do great maintenance and monitoring.
CountC
+1 to the fireplace stuff. I have a fireplace in my house but don’t use it so haven’t had it inspected. It’s just not a big deal to me. I’m on old house no. 2 and unless you want new construction, these types of things are going to come up with all houses. No house is perfect.
Anon
This is so true.
My area has a lot of new construction. Homes are really beautiful; however, it’s not clear that they are going to be in great shape in fifty years. So if we sell in 30-40 years, would someone really buy it?
But if you buy an older home and put the money into maintenance, it will still be a very solid home when we’re ready to sell and downsize. I lived in (rented, but did not own) a house that was built just after the Civil War. While it did have a few issues (a few leaks in the walls, needed new windows), it probably looked just as good as it did fifty years ago and will look in another thirty years.
Anon
Yep. My old house is a tank.
Anonymous
Have fun in maplewood and get an inspection.
Real Estate Anon
Hi – not Maplewood, but nearby in Essex County. Thanks!
Anon
Ah this is my hometown!!!
Nesprin
Yeah- at some point you’re just going to have to trust your luck. The best thing you can do is go to the inspections and ask what the inspectors notice/how big a problem. That and budget 1-3% of the purchase price for fixes/upgrades each year.
We bought a project house because we wanted the neighborhood and were pretty confident we knew what the issues were going to be (since they clearly hadn’t patched plaster/painted/cleaned up). So it’s been about 3x what we hoped to spend and 1.5x what we planned to spend (for reference ~10% of our purchase price to date- the prev owners had skipped quite a bit of maintenance).
In our neighborhood at least there’s a couple problems which make it cheaper to rebuild from the ground up than fix, so we looked really really hard for those. We’re both pretty handy and climbed thru the entire basement, and we’re still spending quite a bit to catch up on maintenance/upgrades. There’s major structural issues (build a new house), minor structural/major appliance (10-50k) then bumps and bruises (<10k)
Anon
My aunt bought a home built in 1755 and had to pay $12,000 for 12-over-12 windows that could pass the historic commission’s approval – there are definitely costs!! Her home is amazing, though – fireplaces in every room, huge wide plank floors, amazing moldings, etc.
Anon
All houses are money pits. Old houses maybe more so, but don’t kid yourself that new construction is problem-free.
I have an old Craftsman style house (1909) and we’ve put a lot of money into it, but most of the spending has not been due to surprised. I’ve lived here since 2003. In that time we’ve done the foundation in two different phases – a small job just to make it safe enough, then a major job to try to fix some sloping and do state of the Art earthquake proofing – Bay Area. We’ve re done two of the two and a half bathrooms. We’ve remodeled the kitchen. We’ve put in a new furnace. We’ve had major plumbing work. We’ve done some electricity stuff in phases but not all of it. Major landscaping and drainage a few years ago. And a new roof last summer, which involved taking off three old roofs.
On top of that we’ve done normal maintenance stuff like painting and pressure washing. Appliances come and go. Drains clog. Stuff like that.
We still love our house. I think we are just the kind of people who are willing and able to do this. We love the fact that it’s an older house and we do everything we can to lovingly maintain what is original, rather than trying to “update” it.
My neighbors down the street were on an HGTV show where they were asked what their preferred style was, they said Midcentury Modern, so the TV people proceeded to tear down every beautiful craftsman detail of the room they were redoing, and turned it into a midcentury plain box. I wanted to cry.
Anyway, it’s a labor of love. You really have to be into being the caretaker of an old house. Just remember you don’t have to do it all at once. We put off the kitchen for a full five years, even though our real estate people were falling all over themselves to point out that the kitchen was a “tear down,” we lived with it and cooked a lot of great meals in there for five years.
anon
Oh yikes to your neighbors! I really dislike when a house is made to be something it’s clearly not. I love old homes, but I happen to live in a newer development. The most egregious error there is trying to turn basic suburban homes into “farmhouses.” Umm, it is clearly not a farmhouse. Accessorize all you want, but slapping on some shiplap does not make it so. I love you Joanna Gaines, but I also blame you for this.
Houses
Your anecdote about your neighbors is hilarious but horrifies my period home loving heart. Relatedly, I bought an almost 100% original midcentury home from the original owner that we’re trying to keep original (within reason). Our neighbors, however, have decided to try to Frankenstein their ranch into a Craftsman with the most unholy faux Craftsman front porch and trim they added to their house. Maybe our neighbors should switch homes?
Anon
Haha our neighbors ruined the house and then promptly sold it and moved away!! Otherwise I would suggest your house swap idea.
Houses
One more thing I watch out for is how many owners and how many remodeling (or “remuddling”) projects a house has been subject to. For older homes, a bunch of different stages of remodeling in its history can often just mean more opportunities for someone to halfa$s a job or screw with the physical or aesthetic integrity of the home. In my mind, the dream older home scenario is to buy it from a succession of long-term owners who kept up on the boring ongoing maintenance (roof, electrical, etc), but didn’t do too much in the way of adding on or tearing down parts of the house.
Intervention
I’ll be participating in an intervention for a dear friend of 15 years, whose alcohol use has cost them their spouse, job, home, and health. He’s refused to see a doctor but have symptoms consistent with advanced cirrhosis. He’s 38.
To anyone whose ever participated in an intervention before – as a supporter or subject – what’s the best way for me to plan for this? We’re working with an interventionist who wants us to write an impact statement – what might be best to focus on? Any other things to be aware of?
Anon
I’m sorry about your friend. I’d say, don’t get your hopes up. I tend to think an intervention is more likely to benefit the addict’s supporters in that they can say/feel they tried absolutely everything. Unless the addict wants to get sober, they won’t. While an intervention may succeed in getting a person into treatment, it’s less likely to stick than if the addict committed to treatment on their own. I wish you and your friend well.
Anonanonanon2
Don’t give him ANY reason to feel attacked or get defensive. He will take any opportunity to start afight/argument and derail it. That’s why interventions are scripted.
Express gratitude, almost to the point of expressing that you are doing this because you feel like you owe him. Explain how his alcoholism has changed your behavior, minimizing the word “you”. “I feel nervous whenever I call you, because I worry one day soon you won’t answer because something has happened to you” etc.
Good luck. It’s rough. Source: have an Alcoholic Father
BeenThatGuy
+1 they will feel attacked and angered. Steer away from referring to them as an addict or having an addiction; it has a negative connotation. Instead, re-frame it as “a person with a substance use disorder”. Interventions have evolved over the years and are now much more loving and uplifting rather than “here’s how your addiction has effected me”.
Good luck and you’re an amazing friend.
Anon
Not a professional. My experience with this has been an alcoholic, drug addicted sibling who finally got treatment after landing in the hospital after an overdose.
If the professionals say differently, ignore this. My instinct is to focus on the fact that this person can have a better life and everyone wants that for him. If you feel like a failure and drink because you feel like a failure, people pointing out that you’re a failure and you should stop drinking sounds a lot like rubbing salt in the wound and then taking away the painkiller. If you focus on “you can rebuild,” “you’re a great person and we all want you to live your best life,” “if you do this now, you will be so happy that you did it,” or “we all believe that you can be a success story and want that for you,” it can send a needed message.
You know this person, and you know what message he will be most receptive to.
Clementine
Be ready to walk away. Be ready that they will not be happy about this. They will very likely lash out. What they say is the addiction speaking.
Anon
I don’t mean to be a downer, but I think the most important thing is to manage your own expectations. If you go in thinking you’re going to “fix” this person, and if you don’t it’s some sort of a failure, then you’re going to be really disappointed. This is one of many, many steps, some will be forward steps, some will be backward steps. It’s a marathon, not a sprint. There is no one and done.
Anon
So angry and sad about Trump shifting COVID/hospital numbers to HHS. He can’t be out soon enough.
Anon
i agree that this is ridiculous and makes me so mad.
Monday
I’m hoping that the American Hospital Association or similar might start reporting numbers themselves, which he can’t control. They do have an interest in people knowing the true scope of Covid.
Anon
out of curiosity I went to look at fox news this morning to see what headlines they report and on their pages, coronavirus is like this small side thing going on. is anyone else petrified of the next 4+ years if he wins again. i don’t think i can handle waking up in november to another term of his
Anon
They are delusional. It’s so shameful.
I really hope some other body continues to report the actual numbers. He hasn’t even tried to protect the people he is supposed to serve.
anonshmanon
I will continue to look at my county’s public health department for numbers in the area. And I strongly hope that my state will continue to provide useful information, as well.
Country Biscuits
Do y’all remember this dress that was featured in March?
https://corporette.com/powis-pointelle-knitted-dress/
I have been stalking it and finally bought it. The comments from back then ranged from “afghan” to someone saying that it’s far enough removed from the Missoni chevron trend that it’s a nice dress.
Any other thoughts? It’s brighter than I thought and not sure my coloring can carry it. Medium/dark brown hair, pale and green eyes. And, wonder if it is a dress you get tired of quickly.
Anonymous
I think it looks dated
Anon
If you like the dress enough to think about it for four months, it sounds like a great dress! Don’t worry what a bunch of random strangers think. (But I do think it’s cute.)
anon
this! Have fun with your new dress!
Senior Attorney
Agree with this. Wear it and enjoy it! (I almost bought it when it was originally posted — very cute!)
Vicky Austin
Rock it if it makes you happy!
Anon
I loved that dress then and I love it now. For me, this is a classic pattern – it was big in the 1940s and again the 1970s. “Dated,” as another poster said, is all a matter of perspective.
If you have the bod for this, rock it!!
Anonymous
Also in the 2000s — it’s got another 10 years before it will be in style again
Anon
Eating TW
Added the TW because I know there have been a lot of posts about diets and eating here lately and I don’t want to offend. But if you are trying to eat healthier and stop snacking in the evening, try putting your retainer in if you have one. I am a huge snacker. I’m also a night owl, so snacking mindlessly in the evening doesn’t phase me. Lately, I have been putting my retainer in a couple hours before bed instead of at bedtime. It is really helping me decide if I am actually hungry or if I am just bored.
Anonymous
I don’t have a retainer but I brush and floss after dinner for basically the same effect.
AFT
Similarly, brushing my teeth after dinner helps me not mindlessly snack.
Anonymous
Can we talk about returns? Specifically clothing returns. What percentage of what you buy do you try on at home and then return? Why do you return them (do you buy two sizes knowing you’ll return one, do you think it looks fun online and hate it in real life, do you feel good when you hit “order” but guilty/bad when it arrives)? How have your clothing purchase/returns changed since COVID, if at all?
anon
I think I normally return about 25% of what I buy, usually because of fit or sizing issues. On rare occasions (if it’s something that I absolutely love and must have) I will buy 2 sizes and return one but I don’t do this very often.
I’ve made few purchases and zero returns since COVID because I’m not buying anything other than athleisure & have been sticking to my usual brands. If we ever return to normal, I will probably use all the money I’ve saved to buy everything from the Fold that is available in my size!
Cat
In Before Times, I’d return about half. Part from ordering in two sizes, part from the garment just not looking great in person. I’m not prone to blowing my budget online shopping so haven’t had any guilt returns.
Now, I’m actually shopping a lot less because I’m limiting my purchases to brands and styles I am totally confident will be keepers, and let’s face it I don’t actually need that much athleisure when only the neighbors see me outside puttering in the garden… and effort to return the rejects is too annoying – either (1) my normal local store*, where I’d go to make returns for free, is still closed, or (2) making the trip to UPS or post office for returns is tedious. *why not just shop in person when it’s open? because they don’t stock the same offering as online.
Anonymous
I normally return 85% of what I buy normally, but during COVID I’m trying to limit purchases to things with long/no return-by dates.
Panda Bear
I return about 50- 75% of what I buy, mostly because of fit issues, sometimes because the quality or overall look of the garment isn’t as flattering as I thought it would be. Mitigating factors – up to 75% sounds like a lot, but in absolute terms I don’t really buy that much. But when I do shop, I will often get four or more sizes/fits since I am both very pear shaped, sometimes fit better in petites, sometimes better in regular lengths. So I might get a single top in 6 petite, 6 regular, 8 petite, and 8 regular. Oh, and maybe i want it in black and white, so I buy 8 tops but end up only keeping one. I HATE shopping this way – so much extra shipping, and stuff to keep track of – but it is often so challenging to find petite items I like in stores. Pre-covid, I tried to do as much of my returns in person as possible, to minimize the impact of shipping more crap back.
Since covid I’ve been shopping much less overall, but I do still take the same approach (e.g. try four of the same item) if needed.
Anon
I used to return a LOT, mostly due to fit / not being flattering, but also because I’m picky. Less is more is my MO so I want to absolutely love everything I own.
I live about a ten minute walk from my city’s main shopping district (which I pass on my walk to the subway) and a 20 -25 min walk from our downtown mall (which is also right on my subway line that I commute on).
In before times I would usually order online and do in-store pickup, come home, try it on and then return in store if need be. It was easier for me to do this, since it’s on my way home but also prevents packages being stolen from my stoop.
Now, I order online and hope it’s not stolen. I have a pile of things I’ll return once I can do in store returns again (the post office is much further away than the stores)
AFT
I probably return 20-25% of my online clothiing purchases, but also purchase the bulk of my clothes online. When I return, it’s usually due to fit – typically order size A, it arrives and I don’t like the fit, order size B, try both on to decide which is better, and then return 1 (or sometimes both) based on the comparison. I don’t typically order two sizes at the outset unless I LOVE something and am conflicted on which size to order. I’ve done more self-service UPS/etc. returns since COVID and just print the label from home and schedule a pickup online. My COVID purchases tend to be athletic wear or summer weekend wear, although I did take advantae of MM Lafleur’s sales at the beginning of the pandemic and have a few not-yet-worn items in my closet for if/when my office reopens.
Pink
I normally buy in-person, try everything on and return 10% of what I buy, due to buyer’s remorse. Since quarantine started I have shopped exclusively online. I have returned about 75% of what I order due to ill fit, poor quality or not needing the item I ordered. When my office reopened, I did a big seasonal work blouse and shoe order. Since I placed the order my office has shut down again, (and rightly so) so I returned everything. I feel bad that I created more work for the supply chain workers, but it was a good exercise in realizing that I don’t need most of the stuff I order. I’ve committed to cutting back now.
Anon
In the before times, I most shopped in person and never returned. I only ordered online if it was something I was pretty sure about and couldn’t get in store, and rarely returned. Since COVID, I’ve only bought a dress, 2 pairs of shorts and 3 t-shirts (2 orders), and have kept them all. I don’t anticipate buying any more clothing in 2020 — might need some new sneakers in the fall though.
Jess
I also return 75% of what I order and have no guilt about it. I’m petite and those aren’t necessarily kept in stock. If I’m ordering trousers to wear to the office, I’ll order a 6, 6P, 8 & 8P to see what fits best. If I’m ordering something more frivolously, it’s less likely to have a petite version and more likely to be on sale with limited sizes. Then it goes back if it’s unflattering or looks cheaper in person.
To get petites, I’d have to order them into the store or call ahead to make sure the store has them. I don’t have any interest in that, nor do I have any interest in trying to find the three different places the stores keeps their navy pants. I love thrift shopping in normal times, but if I’m paying retail I want either the convenience of online or the type of really good service you get at Brooks Brothers.
TMJ
Hi, saw my dentist yesterday and he said I am grinding my teeth to bits in my sleep and I need to reduce my stress HAHAHAHA. Any suggestions for a TMJ dr in the DC area? I apparently need a new night guard. My dentist can do it, but I think I’m at the point where I need a specialist to address the whole problem of what I’m doing to my jaw and teeth so I don’t wind up with dentures before I’m 40.
anon
I used to grind my teeth because of stress. I destroyed one tooth and severely damaged a few others. Do you also wake up with a headache everyday? I had a night guard, but I actually bit through it.
The thing that helped was . . . reducing stress. I lost my job. I got a new job. I haven’t ground my teeth since 2016.
BB
FWIW, I’m not sure what a TMJ doctor is really going to be able to tell you. I’ve had TMJ issues since my teenage years, and it absolutely gets worse with stress. A good (hard) night guard definitely helps. I’m also considering getting braces to fix a bite issue that might be contributing, but that’s honestly a toss up as to whether it will help. Massage has also helped.
anon
My dentist had me use the Invisalign retainers, top and bottom, as a night guard. I’ve had them almost a year and they are working well. I broke the bottom one in half but since I’m using it as a teeth protector more than retainer and it still affixes firmly to my teeth, the dentist said I could keep using it.
Marie
I also have a nightguard that looks like an invisalign retainer. It works well for my grinding and when I forget to wear it, I wake up with a sore jaw and a headache. I have spoken about this before, but it was actually my dentist who suggested my frequent migraines could be linked to grinding and I will be forever grateful that he made that connection because they are significantly reduced since wearing the guard at night.
Anonymous
PSA if you have stocks to sell: the market is super high right now!! I just sold a bunch of high-fee funds from an old 401K; I’ll keep cash in the IRA until the market crashes (as it inevitably will in a month or two).
Anon
Well…. I would have bet my first born that it was going to crash and stay down in March – and yet it didn’t. This unreasonable stock market investor confidence may never end.
Allie
I know there are a lot of virtual museum tours or exhibits available online. Are there any in particular you recommend?
DC Art
I loved the Degas at the Opera exhibit from the National Gallery of Art. It was very thorough, with audio recordings of a couple dozen highlighted art pieces, a few background write-ups, and a video recording of the press opening. Still available online I think.
I also liked NGA’s walk through of True to Nature: Open-Air Painting in Europe, 1780–1870
Anonymous
Anyone have any favorite watermelon cocktails? I’m doing dry July but my father’s 70th birthday is happening tomorrow so I’ll have one drink with him.
Anon
There are a list of them on the Pioneer Woman’s new website.
Anokha
I’m looking for a small desk (35″-40″) now that I’m back “at work” and will be working from home for the foreseeable future. So far I’ve looked at: Crate and Barrel (+kids), West Elm, Pottery Barn (+kids), EQ3, Wayfair, Ikea, Restoration Hardware, CB2. Am I missing any other possible stores?
The idea of putting a desk in my bedroom is really bumming me out, although it’s the only place I have to work.
Anonymous
Someone recommended the Cost Plus World Market “Secretary Desk” (brown wood I think) recently & it looks lovely & versatile
Anon
I know you already looked there but I just want to tell you I have a West Elm mid-century mini desk (36″) and love it. They have a few other “mini” desks too. It’s pretty nice looking — I could totally put my laptop and mouse away in the drawer if I wanted to for a “cleaner” look when I’m not using it.
Anokha
Thank you! It is my top contender, so that is good to know. I wish it was still available in the teal. Such a fun color!
Anonymous
I just bought the Athena Computer Desk from Novogratz. Super easy assembly and the price is right.
anne-on
I’d also check out Arhaus, Design within Reach and the Restoration Hardware teen line. I got the crank sit/stand desk from Pottery Barn late last year and we really like it for our office (even sitting, it’s handy for my husband to adjust it higher).
Anon
Is it just me or is mod really really slow again? I changed my email address recently and thought that might be an issue, but it seems like comments are really trickling.
Cat
it’s seemed longer than normal to me, too – maybe someone is taking vacation?
Anon
Just another fun day of too much closeness. I woke up suddenly to being kicked in the shin, hard. My husband was having a nightmare and, apparently, kicking the bad guys.
He’s sorry and I’m bruised and annoyed. I KNOW I shouldn’t be annoyed because he didn’t mean to do it, but I am anyway!
Carmen Sandiego
My husband (bf at the time) once bit my forehead in our sleep! When I startled us both awake, he told me he had been dreaming he was eating an apple. We still crack up about this! Sharing a bed is hard!
BeenThatGuy
That’s the hardest I’ve laughed in months. Thank you!
Anon
Hahahah
Anon
Last week, my husband basically levitated in his sleep. I have no idea how, but the man managed to get some air. Imagine trying to slam-dunk a basketball from a prone position. Twice. The first ‘thud’ woke me up just in time to see him get air the second time.
Senior Attorney
Haha I’m always telling my husband he does that — levitates three feet, rotates 360 degrees, and crashes back down!
Anonymous
I figured out that if I interrupt my husband at the beginning of one of these dreams when he first gets twitchy feet, indicating he is acting something out, he won’t go back to that dream state. I did miss one last year, though, and took a light punch. I on the other hand have dreams I am falling and wake up in a panic.
pugsnbourbon
I full-on took a swing at my wife when she came to bed once (and I have never punched anyone in waking life). Thankfully it was a sleep-punch and she caught my arm before I connected. I woke up immediately and apologized profusely, I’ve also completely forgotten what I was dreaming about.
Anonymous
Ouch! My husband broke a toe kicking the wall while asleep a couple of weeks ago. He said he was dreaming he was being attacked by a dog. I’m very glad he kicked the wall instead of me!
Induction Cooktop
We’re doing a kitchen reno and looking for a 30 inch induction cooktop. Anyone have an induction cooktop they love and recommend or brands to avoid?
Anonymous
Ooh, me me me! We have an LG. Love how easy it is to clean! I’ve been surprised how gross the oven gets if we don’t run the thermonuclear self-cleaning cycle very regularly.
anon
My kids are staying for a few days with my MIL, and my husband and I finally had the separation/divorce discussion. Things have been bad for a really, really long time — we have largely led separate lives but continued to stay married for the sake of the kids. Living that way was awful in so many ways, but we were largely able to make it work because of his travel schedule (he was gone like 33% of the time). With COVID, he’s obviously always here and we just couldn’t pretend anymore.
I have been living under such a cloud of shame and sadness over this for years, so it feels liberating to able to start healing from it. I have told my sister and one friend who happens to be staying the night with us this weekend as she drives cross-country.
The complications of doing this during a pandemic are incredible. We were already struggling with how to address taking care of the kids while working remotely – and starting in August, we’ll add the uncertainty of school and little-notice building closings and a quick shift to online learning.
We’re talking with a family therapist on how to best approach logistics (does he move before school starts, does he stay in our house until our current spike (in SEUS city) levels off, how far in advance of him moving out do we tell the kids, etc.) .
We agree on the “big stuff” – custody split, division of assets, how he’ll support us financially so we can stay living in our house – so the hope is that we can move down this path amicably. But, OMG, it sucks.
Anon
I’m so sorry. All I can say is that you’re going to feel so, so, so much better a year from now than you do right now.
I’m glad you’re being amicable now. Please get everything agreed to as soon as you can while you’re both still feeling that way. Contact a divorce service (I used a paralegal) for an uncontested divorce and get the property agreement and as much of the child support/alimony stuff as you can in writing right now, while you’re still getting along.
The one thing that helped me through the property division stage was reminding myself that it was just stuff, and stuff is replaceable. My ex husband took a few things that meant something to me and nothing to him just to stick it to me, even though we were overall amicable. I just rolled with it, because in exchange, I was getting my life back. I think if we had not completed the official property agreement early, he would have decided to try to hurt me a little more later. That’s why I recommend doing it now.
Hugs to you!
Amber
So sorry you are dealing with this and sending you hugs!
Anon Too
I’m going through the same thing right now. It really, really sucks. My shame is compounded by the fact that I’m the only one I know going through this. So, in a weird way, I really appreciate you sharing today. It helps to know you’re not alone. Just saying. Lots of hugs to you!