Want to win a $250 gift card??? Take the Corporette survey! More details here.

Corporette.com

Updated: Apr 6, 2022 342 Comments · by

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Midnight Meadow Live-In Blouse

The Personal Shopper (TPS)

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

A woman wearing a black-and-white print blouse and black pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This airy, long-sleeve blouse would be a gorgeous spring basic. The black-and-white floral print will pair beautifully with neutrals or brights, and could be dressed up for a formal office look or down for the weekends.

I would wear this with a pair of bright pants (like these) and a sweater blazer for a easy business casual outfit.

The top is $148 at Nordstrom and comes in sizes XS–XXL and 1X–3X.

A more affordable option is from New York & Company; it’s available in sizes S–XXL and is on sale for $20.

This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!

Workwear sales of note for 12.7.23

Our favorites are in bold!

Workwear sales of note for 12.7.23

Our favorites are in bold!

Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Anon

    Looking for a dress style to wear to business meetings in hot climates of Southeast and Southwest May – September….preference is slightly less business formal but still professional…A day dress? Make colleagues are in golf shirts at these meetings. Love MMLafleur and have several but want slightly more business casual if that makes sense.

    • Katrinka

      Have you looked at Boden? I feel like they have that nice balance between really elegant cuts and prints but in a softer and more casual style than a typical “business” dress.

    • Anon

      I feel like MMLF with flats or fashion sneaks or booties can be casual enough, depending on the dress and jacket (denim or a fun jacket) or accessories. With pumps they read more business but it is 2022 and I wear Air Walks now with everything black and metallic pointy toe flats otherwise if I’m not kicking a*s.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I like shirtdresses for these scenarios. I had a great one that I’d wear to conferences where folks ran the gamut in terms of formality.

      • Anonymous

        I agree with shirt dresses as a good option here. And I just bought a couple of them last night from Tommy Hilfiger, responding to social media marketing. They have several that might do the trick, in interesting patterns and at least two fabrics to pick from.

      • Anon

        This was what I was going to say. I used to have a dress that was perfect for this. It was a hybrid wrap/shirt dress style. It was made of woven cotton but the top was a surplice style, and it had half sleeves. Perfect for the hot.

        What I’ve worn in hot weather more recently has been a skirt and an airy blouse. The two I hold onto specifically for this purpose aren’t sold any more but the key is natural fibers and a loose fit.

        • Gail the Goldfish

          I think I had that same dress. I had totally forgotten about it. It was perfect.

      • anon

        Yep – this is the way. I have a sleeveless one I got on sale from Theory years ago that works perfectly when guys are in golf shirts. I have a long sleeve one that’s similar when I need to step it up a bit.

    • Anon

      In my experience, the warmer the weather, the colder the conference room. I would never wear a dress because tights would look strange in the summer, but I would freeze without them. Layers, layers, layers.

      • anon

        I agree with this. I’d go with biz-casual pants, pretty tops, and a jardigan or something soft on top that you can remove when you go outside. I have made the mistake of wearing dresses and being miserable.

      • anon a mouse

        Yes, this exactly. Pants and a blazer will work well and then you can lose the blazer if you go outside. Also, my merino Rothys are my standby in these situations because my feet are always cold but socks look strange.

      • Anne-on

        Agreed – unless you know you’ll be entirely outside, assume you’ll be in a freezing cold conference room. The coldest I’ve ever been at work has been in conference rooms in Vegas, Miami, and Arizona. I’d go with pants and long sleeves in brighter colors and patterns, and pack a blazer or warm scarf. The bloomingdales c cashmere wrap has been worth it’s weight in gold for these types of situations.

    • Anonymous

      I would search for dresses in fabrics that work: stretch cotton poplin is my favorite for casual work dresses, and when I need to restock I search for the fabric, not a brand.

  2. Ribena

    I need makeup tips please. I have pale but olive toned skin – making buying foundation a challenge, especially in the U.K. where most people seem to have pink undertones. I used to buy Bourjois but they no longer sell in the U.K. – so I would love to hear recommendations as my old bottles have expired. Happy to spend a bit more as long as we’re not talking Chanel prices – and looking for light to medium coverage.

    • Anonymous

      I like Estee Lauder double Wear light for this, not exactly cheap but it gets the undertones right for my super pale olive skin (I’m from the Mediterranean but wear sunscreen unlike the rest of my family)

      • Ribena

        Is that the same as Double Wear Sheer? This is the copy:
        “ Lightweight, breathable forget-it’s-there comfortable wear. The oil-free formula, with Hyaluronic Acid and our unique Red-Fruit Infusion of watermelon, apple and litchi seed extracts, provides immediate and all-day hydration.

        Smooths skin’s surface and minimises the look of fine dry lines.

        With Vitamin E and SPF 20, helps protect against UV rays and pollution.

        Resists sweat and humidity.

        So easy to apply, you can do it with your fingertips – no experience necessary. Use it to cover specific trouble spots like blemishes, or all over your face.”

        Thanks for the lead!

    • test run

      Similar coloring here – I use almay foundation (I alternate between the 200 and 300 shades in winter/summer), which you can get the drugstores here, not sure if they carry it in the UK. If you’d also consider a tinted moisturizer, I find that Avene and Nivea skew slightly olive. The Nivea Daily Essentials tinted moisturizer is one I actually picked up the last time I was in London, and it has pretty medium coverage for a tinted spf – probably as much/more than a light coverage foundation.

      • Ribena

        We don’t get Almay here as far as I know.

        I’m good for tinted moisturiser – I use the palest shade of the Body Shop one and I love it.

        Might end up picking up the Nivea one though if it has that slightly higher coverage, thanks!

    • London (formerly NY) CPA

      I have pale skin with pink undertones, and I always find Bobbi Brown foundation too yellow-undertoned for my skin, so maybe give them a try?

      • Anon

        I’m the same and I get a good match in Bobbi Brown! I wear Cool Sand in both the serum and the stick foundation. I’ve also worn Cool Ivory. They have cool, neutral, and warm shades in all or most of their colors (not sure how it works on the darker end).

        Ribena, check out Sali Hughes’ videos on Instagram. She’s in the UK and tries on several brands available there – she has a recent one on new foundations.

      • Formerly Lilly

        I have pale to medium skin with strong yellow undertones and when I wore foundation I could always find a match at Bobbi Brown. It’s worth finding a makeup line that doesn’t cater only to pink tones so that you’re not fighting the color palette. I don’t know if Borghese is available to you, but I had always found the whole counter there easy to work with for my yellow toned skin.

  3. anon

    I’m trying to get a schedule going for summer travel, but tickets are soo expensive! Any guesses on whether gas prices will go down? DC to LA is about 700 to 800 right now, and we need 4 tickets. I’m wondering if I should just buy them now before prices go up even higher or will they come down a bit. So, internet friends, any guesses?

    • Anon

      Air travel is a cluster right now. The airlines are not back to 2019 levels of service, but as far as I can tell, the demand is 100% back to pre-COVID levels. The airlines don’t have the routes in place or the staff to ramp up right now. Weather cancellations are happening really frequently and, again, there’s not the capacity to just get on the next flight. The next flight may well be in a day or two. If you’re not up for the possibility of a bit of adventure, don’t fly right now.

    • Anon

      The consensus seems to be prices are only going to get higher through the summer and maybe come down in the fall. I’d buy now if you have to travel before September. But it stings. Our tickets to Europe for our summer trip were over $1,500 per person for economy — $6k for a family of four! I’ve flown business class to Europe for less.

    • Anne-on

      Unfortunately I don’t think ticket prices are going down. We are doing summer travel to the National Parks (Wyoming) and ticket prices have gone up about 30% since we booked in February. I’m also hearing from friends and the travel blogs I follow that hotel rooms are booking VERY fast and many beach towns are almost fully booked for summer. We did recent spring break travel to the Caribbean and agreed, it was a cluster – full capacity in terms of travelers but not as many flights and the airlines are obviously overwhelmed.

    • Cat

      we’ve been hoarding our miles the last 3 years bc fares were low – this is the year we’re deploying them, bc demand is like 200% back but capacity is def not.

      • Anne-on

        This. Hotel room rates have been crazy high and we’ve gotten amazing value redeeming all the points we’ve been holding onto for 2+ years.

      • Anon

        Mileage redemption rates seem insane though too. United wants over 150k miles for round trip economy to Europe unless you fly bizarre itineraries with unnecessary stops. We have 300k miles but aren’t going to use them because I don’t want to fly on a Tuesday with three layovers.

        • Cat

          oh man that is bad. We booked July & August travel a few months ago and it seems everything has gotten worse in the interim!

    • Grace

      I would 100% go with buying now. I bought one set of tickets early Monday of this week, and the airline automatically rebooked me on a different flight on Tuesday, same day but at an annoying time. I called saying I wanted the fare difference between the flights I wanted and the one I got refunded (it was $30 when I booked). The customer service person informed me that the flights I had bought 36 hours ago were now about $300 more expensive round-trip, so they would not be refunding, because they refund based on what I would have paid at time of rebooking. If you know where you want to go and when, buy it now.

      (Yes, I know I could probably have gotten the $30 if I’d been pushy enough about it, but there’s just a limit to how much I’m willing to fight for $30.)

    • Anon

      Book now. Since airlines have done away with change fees, if the price drops later on, you can can cancel and rebook and get the fare difference as a voucher for future travel.

    • Anon

      I’ll be the voice of dissent – we need 3 tickets to Vegas in July and I am waiting until early May, 60 days out from the trip, to see what’s what. Who wants to go to Vegas in July, where it will be hotter than the gates of Hades? We do, to see the opening of the Black Keys tour. I don’t know how many other people will be making that choice and so I’m betting we’ll see lower prices if I wait a little bit. Also, in my case, if push comes to shove and it’s going to cost us $1500 to fly we can drive instead, it’ll just require a couple extra days off. For folks trying to travel overseas, the calculus may be different.

    • Peloton

      Are you on or near a train line? Don’t underestimate train travel! It’s a surprisingly nice way to go a state or so away.

      • Peloton

        Ah, just caught you’re going coast to coast, so a train trip would be a Commitment (although a great way to see the country, if you have the time). Do you have to do that trip this year? Or could you stay local this summer and do that next year?

  4. Silver Spring/Bethesda restaurants

    Recommendations please —
    Colleague is moving to Silver Spring, Maryland. I’m assembling a going away gift/care package and would like to include restaurant gift certificate (they still dine take-out). Colleague and spouse have two kids under 5.
    Your favorite restaurants near Silver Spring/Bethesda/Chevy Chase? I was thinking Cava, but colleague/we already have Cava nearby so not really that unique or special.

    • Anon

      Zinnias and Denizens (a brewery with food) both have very nice outdoor dining setups and are great for families, both are in Silver Spring.

      • Anonymous

        I haven’t been to Zinnia, but loved it as Mrs. K’s and it is the best outdoor dining spot. Denizens is OK but it has really limited food, it’s more of a happy hour place. My favorite family restaurant in Silver Spring is Mi Rancho, with Thai Silver Spring (above the fountain plaza) as a close second. Red Maple is Asian fusion with decent takeout options.

        • Anonymous

          Wait Mrs. K’s Toll House closed? So sad. I lived in Silver Spring as a little kid (I’m 45), and my great aunt had memories of going there when she was stationed in DC in the WAC during WWII.

          • Anonymous

            Yes, Mrs. K’s Toll House turned into Zinnia. I’ve only been here for 10 years, but I live in the adjacent neighborhood and was sad to see it go! Luckily, at least one of the partners who turned it into Zinnia is a lifelong Silver Spring resident, so they’ve been respectful of its history and it’s still a similar vibe.

    • Anonymous

      ChiKo in Bethesda is one of my favorite take out places. If the kids only eat more Western foods, maybe Spanish Diner. Or Matchbox for pizza – It’s not the best pizza I’ve ever had but it’s somehow always a kid favorite. Jeni’s Ice Cream or Dolcezza Gelato for dessert?

      I mean, all Cava is tasty, but are we talking fast casual Cava Grill or the slightly more fancy Cava Mezze restaurants? Same ownership and they also have fanicer date night places like Julii.

      • PolyD

        You can get gift certificates that work in all Jose Andres restaurants. So Spanish Diner in Bethesda, but you can also use it at the OG Jaleo downtown (it’s 2 blocks from Gallery Place Metro, so easy to get to on metro) which has (or had) a table that is a football table topped with plexiglass. Come to think of it, the Bethesda one did, too, maybe it survived the rebranding. The gift certificates will also work at Oyamel and I think Zatinya? I always forget if that’s part of the Andres empires.

        Another place in Silver Spring that isn’t a restaurant but is a fun place to visit is Brookside Gardens – lovely gardens and space for kids to run around.

        • Anonymous

          I believe the giftcards work at all of those Jose Andres restaurants (so yes to Zaytinya and even the often forgotten China Chilcano), but I suggested the suburbian ones since the OP’s colleague has young kids and wasn’t sure if they wanted to make a special trip into DC just for takeout. Jaleo in Bethesda was turned into Spanish Diner.

          +1 to Brookside Gardens for the kids. Actually Wheaton Regional Park has some other fun stuff for the kids too.

    • Anon

      It’s in Takoma Park, but I love Cielo Rojo for Mexican and they have gift cards. The Jose Andres restaurant suggestion is also a good one.

    • MD girl

      Locavino!

      My friends own it and were long-time employees of the restaurant that was in the space before it. They try very hard to bring in local wines and beers and the food is delicious. It’s Silver Spring legend and couldn’t be more local.

      Other options: Quarry House (dive bar with delicious tots), Denizens Brewing, if they’re beer people

    • Korvapuusti

      Girl and the Vine is also a great option in Takoma Park, and I also second ChiKo.

  5. Jane Again

    Do any lawyers here have experience working in a law school career services office? I’ve been in private practice for 10+ years, and I’m ready for something completely different. An opportunity opened up in career services and professional development at my law school, and I am considering it. I have some skills and interests that fit well with the job, but I don’t know anyone that works in such an office to talk to about it to get a sense of what this type of role is like. Does anyone have thoughts on things I should consider in pursuing this?

    • Anon

      I know a woman who did it at my old firm after wanting to semi retire and have a more predictable schedule for her kids. Would you have to move? One issue is that students see lawyers doing this as failed lawyers who couldn’t actually help them and schools are under a lot of pressure to place people. No one may be happy with you. And night events may be regular, as is travel and networking for your school. You are always in sell mode. A friend also went from practicing in the government to recruiting for a firm and then later retired to stay home when her husband was doing a residency and their lives were crazy. I think it was easier to be on the firm side vs the school side because you can always hire good people but a school faces unhappy dent laden students who rightfully fear that they have wrecked their lives.

      • Anon

        These sentiments certainly ran true for how we viewed our career services office a decade ago…
        “One issue is that students see lawyers doing this as failed lawyers who couldn’t actually help them” “a school faces unhappy dent laden students who rightfully fear that they have wrecked their lives.”

        • Anon

          Our career services was amazing at helping students get federal and state clerkships. So I think the view depends on past success in helping student get where they wanted to go.

          • Anon

            I’m curious — how do they help? Do they have a relationship with a judge, perhaps an alumnus/a? Just a good spreadsheet of off-the-beaten path and new judges who have higher odds? If there are any tricks or insights, that would be good to know (um, asking for a friend here).

          • Anon

            For a long time, my T25 law school had large placements into clerkships. Career services was really good at keeping everyone on track for the application cycle. They placed large numbers of students with alumni. They were very good at assessing each applicant’s chances, which made for more targeted applications and, in the case of exploding offers, students with a better understanding of their choices. Later, new people just took the “if you can’t figure it out yourself, you’re not clerkship material” approach.

    • Anonymous

      The top students sail through the hiring cycle with no problem. You will be spending most of your time on the rest, some of whom will be bitter at the school for not somehow making them perform better. I peer tutored some of the ungrateful; they are a massive energy sink.

      • Anon

        I think that this is unfair. Outside of . . . T14? T25? kids are sold a bill of goods at law schools. At this point, they are realizing that their plan to be top 10% of their class and law review hasn’t worked out and they are damaged goods with $$$ student loans that are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. And at a school recruiting more and more students that will happen to. What, in all honesty, can a school say to them: “We can’t place you; no one can. Thank you for your 60K tuition.” A diploma mill is cheaper and more honest and just as useful. I don’t think they are ungrateful. I think that the top students are not grateful to those at the bottom supporting their easy coasting to good jobs — what do they do back? Donate for loan forgiveness programs? I doubt it.

        • Anon

          Thank you for saying this better than I could. Gone are the days in which you can work hard at a good law school and get a good job. It’s a cluster out there, and most jobs don’t support the loans. While the top 10% do bust their butts to be there, plenty of not-top 10% kids also bust their butts and would be fine lawyers.

          IMHO, it’s the job of career services to place (almost) everyone, not just the kids who are easy to place.

          • Peloton

            This info has been on the internet since at least when I was applying for law schools in ’09. The “days” have been gone since ’08. Every applicant I talk to these days is aware of this.

        • Anonymous

          You pay for the education, not a job. If you aren’t clicking in law school you should switch to another program, just like all the pre med students do who don’t click with that curriculum. Don’t keep going and expect a job to be handed to you.

          • Anon

            You wrote “program” and not “programme,” so I’m assuming that you are in America; however, your assumption that law school is akin to an undergraduate track makes me think you’re in Europe. Otherwise, the idea that you can just “switch” to another track after “not clicking” in law school is bonkers and clearly, you’ve never been.

        • Anon

          This. I would honestly feel bad for the students and feel like the school duped them into thinking they would be successful lawyers when most come out with crippling debt and poor job prospects. I couldn’t do that job.

      • Anon

        What, exactly, do hard to place students have to be grateful for? This is something like 80-90% of the students at many law schools.

    • Cat

      what tier of law school?

      tbh many students see career services as the place where timely, relevant advice goes to die. The reason being it’s staffed with people whose actual experience (with the types of places students are trying to work) dwindles by the day.

      • Grace

        Advice from my career services center included “write your resume in a variety of fonts and colors so the sections are separated better!” and “use the Word synonym function to find more interesting verbs!” No, we didn’t take them seriously.

        • Anon

          We were greeted during orientation with news that we’d have to be finding our own jobs. Which was not the view that the lookbook presented and was not mentioned on the tour. I’d like to see a 10b5 on all school promotional materials and some signoff from an auditing firm.

        • Sloan Sabbith

          Just reviewed 40 law student resumes and this is apparently still advice, as well as “include a photo!” and “use lots of fun graphics to make yourself stand out” and, apparently, “use the colors of the organization you’re applying to in the graphics of your resume.”

          Some students are, unfortunately, taking them seriously.

          I wish the career services offices had spent more time telling students that it’s way more important to make sure that they address the cover letters to the right person, at the correct agency.

      • Anon

        I’m in BigLaw and I’d only see myself doing career services work as a retiree (so retired equity partner and also a parent) who could lobby firms and judges and government connections hard for my school and really spend every last hour meeting and getting to know students and trying to make connections for them (so a lot more than 9-5 and likely a lot of travel and meetings). I think you need to sell your school and program and students and put your whole sole into it, more so for the kids who are first-generation, the kids with no connections, the kids who want to work in a place they aren’t from, etc. I hate people who take these jobs as a refuge from working legal jobs b/c if done right it is a lot of work.

    • Anon

      I went to a T20 school in Boston (not Harvard). Our career services was filled with lawyers looking for a break, and it showed. They would be there for 6 mos, maybe, if you were lucky, a year. It was a running joke that many of my friends had 3-4 different counselors in their two and a half years working with one, due to high turnover. My classmates were under the impression that these career services people would magically find them a job. I knew better and hustled and networked. Most of them were really checked out or, as mentioned above, would say, oh–have you sent in your resume? Yes, yes they had. Traditional job searches weren’t working at that time (years ago) because there were way too many mediocre law students for not enough jobs.

      I would really encourage you to go into attorney development or as a knowledge management attorney at a firm over doing this at a university, unless you really want to use your rolodex, HARD, to help.

    • Senior Attorney

      I was a finalist for a job like this many years ago (when I was a young associate desperate to get out of the firm, or so I thought). It’s largely a sales job — you need to sell your students to the “buyers,” who are the firms, agencies, and judges. So it really really helps to have good connections with employers.

    • Anon

      I was considering this switch back when I was a big law associate. I spoke to someone in my T5 law school career services office and realized I was woefully under-qualified. I’ll admit I don’t remember what qualifications the career counselors there had, but the knowledge I had from going through the process as a student and being on the recruiting committee at my biglaw office wasn’t enough. Of course if you’re interested, look into it! I thought it would be a great job. But just wanted to share my experience.

  6. Anon

    Advice from anyone who has been on safari….there was a flight deal this morning to Cape Town for $700 and I jumped on it. We have 24 hr to cancel and I’m trying to figure out whether or not to move forward: timing would be mid-January, which I understand may be not the best time to see animals. We also booked for 10 days, but when you take out travel days it’s really only 7 full days. Is this enough time? My husband wants to book for longer, but I’m thinking about PTO and knowing that we’ll need an extra day of travel time on the other side. Appreciate any insight or tips!

    • Ellen

      My dad took mom on Safari about 15 years ago, after I gradueated law school. Dad wanted to show mom Africa, b/c he was stationed in Mogadishu many years ago. Well it turns out it was not near the Safari, and they never got there. They spent many thousand$ of dollar$ but they were not impressed with the tour as they only saw a few animals. So I would check carefully with the tour guide company to make sure you get to see real animals. Dad made the mistake of relying on a former family friend, who had a financial interest in the tour company. So watch it carefully so you won’t get taken. If it is to expensive, you can always get a virtual safari on the Internet.

    • buffybot

      This is only based on my own narrow experience, but my view is that for actual safari, you don’t really need more than 2 full days, not counting travel. I mean, it’s a question of personal preference, but when I went the days were structured when you would go out in the trucks early morning and then again around late afternoon/dusk. It’s a lot of sitting in the car while you drive around and look for animals, and while it’s amazing, I feel like doing that for 2 full days would be more than enough. Depending on the park, there’s just not that much variety in terrain and you get spoiled very quickly – the first elephant is mind blowing, but after that, there are diminishing returns. Then in between the drives (and sometimes on the drives) you just eat (and drink) your face off.
      I would be more worried about 1) travel time to the actual safari location, since to my recollection, Cape Town is not near any of the major preserves, so you’ll lose another day on each end in travel time and 2) Cape Town is incredible and you could spend a whole week there without safari between the trips down to the Cape of Good Hope, wine country, enjoying the beach and the city, etc. Also one thing to think about is I believe last year there was a horrible horrible drought, which could be a serious problem again in their summer.

      • pugsnbourbon

        You jogged my memory so I looked it up – the really severe water restrictions were in 2018. I read an article that really vividly described the scenario. Last year’s reservoir levels were up at 95% though.

        • buffybot

          Well if that isn’t a sign of how my sense of the passage of time has warped during the pandemic, woof…..2018 is FOREVER ago.

        • OP

          Delta! I was shocked – Google said flights were $1,031 cheaper than usual. This is a long-time bucket list trip for my husband and me so I jumped on it!

    • Nora

      I went to Tanzania a while ago on a similar trip. We went in late summer though. We went to a couple different national parks, and then to the safari. I think this is a good amount of time.

      It was an amazing experience, really stood out and I saw sights I never thought I would see.

    • Anon

      I did this exact itinerary in January a few years ago and it was great! Flew to Cape Town from JFK, spent a few days there. Then took a bus east to Kruger Park for the safari and did two full days on safari. We saw everything we wanted to see and then some. You’ll have an amazing time!

    • Gail the Goldfish

      I think 7 days is plenty. I agree with buffybot there is diminishing returns (though I’d do at least 4 days, but that’s personal preference on how much you like animals or, in my case, photography of animals. And also how dense the animal population of where you are is). I did a safari in Tanzania, but if I was going to South Africa, I’d probably split the time between activities in/around Cape Town and safari.

    • NYCer

      I think you could do a three day safari in Kruger, and then enjoy the rest of your time in and around Cape Town. Not sure about the January timing, but the length of the trip seems great actually.

  7. Cb

    Wednesday wins?
    Teaching is done, and my mentor observed my teaching on Monday and was very complimentary. That was the last bit of my probation packet (year 1 of 3) that needed doing so get to cross a big thing off my list.
    I’m flying home today and according to my lateral flow, I don’t have Covid, which feels like a victory as we’re currently at 1/14 people having Covid.

    • Allie

      As a Gen Xer I’m always hesitant to email my kids teachers about things (as my parents literally would have never had email even existed, which it did not), but my daughter has been having a social problem that seems to be getting worse and (with my daughter’s permission) I emailed her teacher about it, and her teacher thanked me for reaching out! She wasn’t aware! She wants to address it! I’m so glad I emailed and its a good reminder that it’s a totally different world than when we were kids, and every so often that’s for the better.

      • anon

        I love this. It hurts to watch your kids deal with shitty social dynamics. And to be honest, today’s teachers seem MUCH more attuned to that whole scene than ours were. Or maybe ours knew, and just didn’t care or see it as their job to correct. Whatever the case, I appreciate it.

        • Anon

          Plus, post-pandemic school closures, some kids are just so scrambled and fried spiritually that it’s just bad all around. Lots more actual violence and when it’s not that bad, the petty meanness has gone way up. There aren’t enough social workers or mental health professionals.

          • anon

            Oh, I really agree. I have a son in middle school, and some of the stuff he’s told me (and I’ve observed firsthand) is pretty appalling. The meanness and pettiness are through the roof. As a result, kiddo is struggling a lot with social anxiety (and anxiety in general). He also has a 504 plan, which needed significant revisions due to the anxiety, and I’ve been waiting on the paperwork for weeks. It’s nobody’s fault; his school counselor is inundated right now.

          • Anon

            Data is coming in that many of the poorest kids in our city were set back several years academically due to our school closures, so also being labeled a failure isn’t mentally helping. The system has failed these kids and out to label it vs the kids who are really struggling now. Their lives may not recover at the rate we are not fixing these glaring problems.

          • anon

            Yeah I’m a juvenile prosecutor in a large, poor US city and lockdown and school closures ruined lives. So many kids were left totally unsupervised, never logged in, and have not returned to school. They spent their Covid days either committing crimes or having crimes committed against them. It was interesting that the proponents of school closures in my area were in the wealthy suburbs. They conveniently forgot that not everyone had parents working from home, safe homes with adequate space, or even internet connection.

    • Anon

      I have been working closely with someone I supervise to help them be more independent and strategic and they have really blossomed. I’m proud of myself for putting in the work and really proud of them.

    • Curious

      Chemo ends this week! And I got approved to max short term disability before going back, following everyone’s recommendations here. I’m relieved, as it will give me space to rehab more fully and get baby settled into daycare before picking up the Amazon workload.

    • Anon

      I have been fighting horrible sweet-tooth cravings, and today I discovered the joy of adding cinnamon to my morning cuppa. It feels like a decadent treat from a coffee shop, minus the sugar.

      • Bonnie Kate

        LOVE adding just a little something to my morning coffee. Another idea on this vein – I found some dried lavender in my grocery store spice section and will put some of those with the grounds for lavender flavored coffee.

    • anon8

      I called my company’s EAP to get a list of referrals to counselors. I still need to look through them to see which ones to contact for an appointment, but making the call was a big step for me.

    • Senior Attorney

      I am back at work after FOUR days on jury duty, during which I was on a panel but didn’t even make it into the box to be voir dire’d. It kind of destroyed my faith in both the jury system and humanity as a whole, but at least I’m back to my normal routine, for which I am most profoundly grateful.

        • Anon

          This is exactly how I felt after the last time I spent a few days doing jury duty (destroyed my faith in the jury system and shook my faith in humanity as a whole).

        • Senior Attorney

          Q: “Can you decide the case based only the evidence presented and the law as I instruct you?”
          A: “No. I think all corporations are evil/I think all plaintiffs are liars/my husband had a similar injury and he didn’t sue so why should this plaintiff get a recovery/I give extra credit to the defense side because their lawyers are all women/why didn’t the insurance company just pay up instead of going to trial?/I think all lawyers just lie under oath all the time to get money/my sister is a PI lawyer and even if the evidence shows the defendant isn’t liable I couldn’t let the plaintiff walk away with nothing.”

          Juror: “I don’t think I should be a juror because my English isn’t good enough.”
          Court: “What’s your job?”
          Juror: “English/MyNativeLanguage interpreter.”

          And so on. OMG and that’s not even counting the horrifying interactions in the hallway.

    • anonshmanon

      had a really good hybrid meeting today! Tried out a new meeting room with fancy tech, I think it was a good experience for both in person and remote attendees, and I got to say a smart thing, haha! I am so ready for more in-person interaction, after 2 years at home, but also want to hang on to my wfh days, and want others to have flexibility, so good hybrid meetings are really key.

  8. Sheets

    I feel like this gets asked weekly but search is no help. Favorite splurge sheets? Looking at Brooklinen. Have their towels and I’m very happy with them. Any other suggestions? We have a king bed and I feel like my sheets are constantly coming off the edges. Any other ideas?

    • Anon

      I think the sheets coming off the edge has more to do with them being old than with what brand they are. I just got cheap new sheets at Target and it completely fixed this issue. My theory is the elastic wears out over time.

    • Curious

      Our Brooklinen sheets constantly came off the edges of our mattress and then ripped. But I sewed the rip and they are our guests’ favorite sheets, so less-active sleepers may enjoy. We prefer the $25 polyester deep sheets with straps to hold them on 😂.

    • Anonymous

      Red Land Cotton has beautiful splurge sheets. We have two sets, and they are both crips and soft, wash well, and seem like they will last for ages.

    • Ribena

      Might it be because the ‘pockets’ in the sheets aren’t deep enough? Of the various sheets I have the IKEA ones are definitely the deepest and stay on the best.

    • Anonymous

      Garnet Hill! I like the linen ones I have from Brooklinen. Lands’ End has some nice ones too if you know the quality stats you’re looking for (weight, fabric, etc).

    • Anonymous

      We like Molecule, purchased at Costco. Quality is great and they are very comfortable. King bed, no slippage on corners.

    • Anonymous

      Bloomingdale’s Hudson Park brand sateen. Wait for a 15-25% sale. We have it in king fitted sheet (nice that they sell separately…I’m a duvet cover devotee and go top-sheet-less). It’s much nicer than the Nordstrom brand sateen (our previous splurge) and heads above the Costco sheets on our guest bed.

    • Formerly Lilly

      I once would have recommended Ralph Lauren, but the percale sheets I last got from there (end of 2020) are so thin that you quite literally can put the sheet over a book and read through the sheet. I’d recommend Garnet Hill for ordinary nice, and Yves Delorme is still very, very good so if you have hit the lottery or live near one of their outlet stores go for it, but otherwise holy cr@p the price!

  9. anon

    Does anyone have experience with shoulder rotator cuff tendonitis? I am not sure how I got it – not a baseball player or anything – but it hurts so much! I have had this for about two years. I have seen a doc, been to physical therapy, and had a cortisone shot. The combination of treatments worked, but not completely and my pain is back. My shoulder, bicep, and neck is on fire. If you have had this, how do you manage it? My doc does not think that there is a tear, so no need for surgery. Any tips welcome!

    • Anon

      I feel like a broken record, but go to a good chiropractor for all things inside not broken. You don’t have to pass on other things like PT, but chiropractic has worked wonders that none of those other specialties have been able to make a dent in.

    • Anonymous

      I had this all growing up and in my early adulthood. I never really treated it. Honestly it went away when I became pretty inactive. Rest was really the trick. I was very concerned it would return when I started working out again three years ago, but it turns out strength training has essentially cured all the things that previously ailed me (even my foot issues have mostly disappeared!).

    • NeglectedHeels

      I’ve had supraspinatous tendonitis for 5+ years. I’m always aware of it but has improved dramatically over time. I’ve had one ultrasound guided cortisone injection which helped me maximize physical therapy for a couple months to get over the hump. The best thing is consistent physical therapy, doing my PT exercises diligently a couple times per week even when I’m not attending PT. Overall I do better if I’m regularly doing shoulder strengthening such as yoga and weightlifting. I have to be cautious to ease into these things because it seems to flare easily with overuse, but overall more activity to keep the shoulder girdle stronger is better. I also get regular massage which helps with the inevitable muscle spasms of the trapezius muscle. I have done dry needling (similar to acupuncture but performed by a trained physical therapist) and it’s nice for the muscle spasms as well. Both are a nice treat to reward myself for staying physically active. I would recommend finding a good sports medicine MD to help guide you, someone who doesn’t do surgery but knows all the other modalities available to help.

      • NeglectedHeels

        Also a physical therapist who specializes in shoulder rehab has been invaluable. I think all PTs are amazing but those that really focus on the shoulder have brought me the most benefit and been able to teach me more about my underlying anatomy and physiology so I understand what I need to do long-term.

    • Senior Attorney

      I had a terribly sore rotator cuff early in the pandemic, and PT only helped a little. Then when the Delta variant got bad I stopped that because somebody at PT had COVID and I didn’t want to take a chance of getting infected. And, lo and behold, several months of complete rest did the trick. It’s literally good as new, which I didn’t even think was a possibility. I know that’s totally counter-intuitive and there are many reasons to not go no-exercise, but that was my experience FWIW.

    • A Nonny Mouse

      I had a tear in my bicep and rotator cuff after a fall and PT plus dry-needling (basically acupuncture in the PT office) really helped. Both the ortho and the PT said it may never be 100% but the pain is at a very low level, and when it flares up is more achy than pain.

  10. Anon

    Has anyone traveled solo outside the US since the pandemic began? I’m getting itchy feet and want to do a big trip, but I’m very single/all of my traveling friends have had babies in the last two years, so it would have to be on my own. I’ve traveled internationally solo before, so I’m not worried about that, but more the logistics of doing fun solo travel things (museums at my own pace! leisurely meals with a glass of wine at a restaurant! etc) in the time of covid. Any experiences to share or recs?

    • Anon

      I haven’t traveled solo recently, but I’ve been to Europe several times since getting vaccinated, so I can offer some perspective on what it’s like to travel there now. We stick to outdoor dining, but that’s soo easy in Europe (they had a big outdoor dining culture before the pandemic) and you can definitely still enjoy leisure meals over wine. Museums should all be open, you might have to wear a mask, but you can definitely wander around leisurely. Honestly, it doesn’t really feel much different than pre-Covid travel other than being asked to wear a mask in certain indoor places and not doing indoor dining (our choice, not a govt restriction).
      I think you’ll have a great time!

    • Anonymous

      Yeah it was great. The only logistical change is more sites had timed entry spots. You can still spend as much time as you want wandering a museum or eating a meal.

    • Anon

      I went to Lisbon solo last Thanksgiving. Great trip. No real difference in logistics than pre-COVID.

    • London (formerly NY) CPA

      I went to Venice solo for 4 days in September and it was great! Saw all the tourist sites at my own pace, ate long leisurely solo meals out on the piazzas, lots of strolling.
      The only thing I find annoying about travel now is the need to pre-book entry times for museums and many other tourist sites, but that’s a general post-COVID travel issue (especially in Europe), not solo-travel specific.

      • Anon

        Timed entry was a thing before Covid too, especially for the most popular sites. We went to Rome in 2017 and I remember buying tickets (with a specific date and time) for the Colosseum and Vatican because everyone told us if we didn’t it might be sold out. I get that in the off season you could stroll into a museum spontaneously and maybe that’s not a thing anymore, but high-season trips always involved a lot of advanced planning. Especially in Italy, I feel like, maybe because the museums there are so popular.

    • Cat

      have traveled internationally a few post-vacc times as a couple – if you’re choosing a destination where outdoor dining is common anyway (think Paris, Italy, Greece) it’s almost normal.

      • Anon

        I can’t really think of a European country where outdoor dining isn’t common in the summer. Maybe Scandinavia.

        • Cat

          Oh true, just wasn’t clear from the OP’s post whether the travel was imminent / mid summer / planning for fall!

          • Anon

            Most of Europe has a climate that’s conducive to outdoor dining from about now through the end of October, so unless she’s planning to go next winter it shouldn’t be an issue. Also indoor dining is permitted in most countries now if you’re comfortable with it.

    • Anon

      Highly recommend Budapest. It has all the amazing spas and pools (some indoor, some outdoor, many with cheap massages given by very angry Eastern European women who really get the knots out), plus ballet, plus great food, plus great walking. I did a trip with a friend plus a few solo days tacked on and it was amazing.

      The political situation there has changed a bit of late. Not excited re that.

      • Anon

        The political situation hasn’t changed, as Orban & co has been at the steering wheel for 15y. It just got much worse, as they have shown their true colors to everyone. I am currently living here due to assignment, but would appreciate if you votes with your money and spent your dollars elsewhere. Don’t fund Orban/Putin. City is beautiful, packed with tourists (already now in beg April). We pretend there is no covid, no masks. I would encourage you to visit other destinations though.

        • Senior Attorney

          Agree. As much as I love Budapest, no way would I support Orban/Putin with my tourist dollars at this point.

      • Anon

        Second all the responses not to put your $ in Hungary right now, but also want to add it’s Central Europe. Not Eastern Europe.

        • Anon

          We, Central Eastern Europeans are fine with being labeled both :) as it depends on where one draws the final line between Europe and Asia. But technically speaking, you are right.
          I can recommend trip to Poland: amazing food, beautiful cities and architecture (Wroclaw, Gdansk, Krakow), great educational museum/sights. You can get to all of these cities comfortably by train, if you prefer not to drive.
          Czech republic – another well-know tourist spot. And if you prefer more hiking or castle holidays, I can recommend smaller sister to the south of Czech rep – Slovakia.

  11. A

    I’m 41 and need skincare help. I’ve never had to worry about my face and more often than not (in my lifetime) have gone to bed without even removing my makeup (I know, I know!). I think this practice + hormones are finally catching up to me. I have dry-ish cheeks and the tendency to break out on my chin and up near my eyebrows — so, t-zone. I’m also a zit picker which doesn’t help anything, and have some scarring on my chin as a result.

    Complicating factor is that it is a STRUGGLE for me to incorporate any beauty routines into my life…I don’t get my nails done and can barely stay on a haircut schedule.

    Sephora sale is on now and I’m wondering if there’s anything y’all recommend that would be good in my situation. Is Sunday Riley’s Good Genes worth it? Any recs for an everyday sunscreen? Please save me from myself!

    • Anon

      I am an extraordinarily low maintenance skin/beauty person (no makeup to leave on, even!) because I am, above all, too lazy. Same age as you. I use micellar water every morning and night to clean my face–fast, easy, no rinsing. I use Cetaphil daily moisturizer with SPF 35 in it. About once a week I exfoliate with St. Ive’s Blackhead Clearing Green Tea and Bamboo scrub. I’ll use pore strips occasionally. I don’t get many pimples but I am susceptible to blackheads.

      Any expensive products, retinol, whatever, I’ve ever bought I have not used after a couple days. It’s just not my jam. My skin stays pretty clear. I’m in a very dry, high altitude, sunny climate and the moisturizer with SPF is a must-have.

      Good luck!

    • Bonnie Kate

      So, I have pretty problematic skin and the only thing that has gotten me to actually incorporate a skincare routine both morning and night is a paper chart that I check/highlight in the morning/evening. I made one in Excel – it’s just boxes numbered 1-100, printed it on card stock, cut it out, and taped it in my medicine cabinet. Every morning I after I put on my morning stuff I check one corner. Then in the evening I do it and check the other corner, and after I put on retinol I cross off the box with highlighter. It’s so dumb, but that’s the only thing that works for me – checking off boxes on paper. It’s strangely very motivating for me.

      I started very simply with just ONE thing daily that I wanted to do – Differin daily. I wanted to give it a real shot for 100 days to see if it made a difference, since so many skin products take a while to actually see results. Hence the chart. Then I just kept adding a thing here or there to try out.

      As far as what I do daily –
      AM –
      Toner to wipe the sleep away
      The Ordinary Niacinamide 10% + Zinc 1% Oil Control Serum (new this week)
      The Ordinary Hyaluronic acid or The Ordinary Mandelic Acid 10% + HA
      Derm-prescription antibiotic (can’t remember the name)
      Olay Regenerist Micro Sculpting Cream (new to me over the last month – I’m obsessed)
      Note: I should add SPF to this and stop relying on my foundation.

      PM
      Makeup remover wipes – guilty pleasure, I hate using wipes (waste/environment) but the feel so much better
      The Ordinary Hyaluronic acid
      Derm-prescription antibiotic (can’t remember the name)
      The Ordinary Azelaic Acid Suspension 10% (new this week)
      The Ordinary Vitamin C – although I’m running out of this and not sure I’ll continue
      Differin – this is an alternative to retinol; I tried to use retinol for two years and it’s just too harsh for my skin
      Olay Regenerist Micro Sculpting Cream

        • Bonnie Kate

          Ohh thanks for the recommendation! I’ll try that for sure. I love using the Ordinary products, the work well for me and they’re so inexpensive it’s so easy to try.

          I don’t like the way the Vitamin C Suspension 23% + HA Spheres 2% (I don’t use the standalone HA when I use this) feels (gritty, which is normal for it) – but even worse I don’t like the way it smells on my hands a while after applying if I don’t super thoroughly wash my hands immediately after using it. In a way it’s been helpful because I wash my hands a lot now between applying each product, but the lingering smell really makes me not want to use it.

      • Bonnie Kate

        oh I forgot eye cream – I use Olay eye cream. I’m trying the Olay Ultimate Eye Cream right now but will be switching back to the Olay Brightening when the ultimate is gone because I liked the white stuff better.

    • Anonymous

      I’m 49 and here’s what I use

      Cleanser – neutrogena fresh foaming cleanser
      Micellar Water – bioderma (the one with the pink cap)
      Moisturizer – neutrogena oil free for sensitive skin
      Roc – deep wrinkle cream, eye cream
      Vitamin c – skinsceuticals
      Sunscreen – supergoop glow screen

      Am – cleanser, vitamin c, eye cream, mosturizer, sunscreen
      Pm – micellar water, cleanser, eye cream, toc, mosturizer

      The vitamin c is absolutely a splurge but it makes a huge difference in my skin. No other vitamin c worked nearly as well for me.

    • Anon

      I have crappy skin so I’ve never been able to be lackidsical about it but I’ve certainly had those nights where I fell asleep without washing my face.

      To answer your question, yes. Good genes is a good product. I would start out using it at night once or twice per week for some gentle exfoliation. It will probably help with the dry patches on your face.

      I like a balm cleanser at night to get every trace of makeup off. My two favorites at Sephora are the Inkey List Oat Cleansing Balm, and Glow Recipe Papaya Sorbet Enzyme Cleansing Balm. How you use these balms is you rub them into a dry face, then wet your fingers with a little warm water and rub some more, and the texture will change. Then wipe it all off with a warm, wet washcloth. Some people follow this with a second cleanse but I do not. You just need a clean washcloth, and the bonus is you’re not splashing water all over your bathroom. This takes off all my makeup, even eye makeup, without stripping my skin.

      After washing, that’s when you do some sort of treatment like the Good Genes or a serum, then let that dry a bit and apply moisturizer. Honestly if you want to save a bit of money on that, two good night time moisturizers not at Sephora are Ultimate Nourishing Rice Overnight Spa Mask by CosRx (Amazon) and The Honest Company Hydrogel Cream. At Sephora, the Peptide Moisturizer from the Inkey List is also nice.

      In the morning you should at least rinse your face, and I would use a toner with BHA to address your mild acne – Farmacy makes a nice one, so does Biossance. I usually just apply these with my fingertips and not a cotton pad. Let dry slightly then continue with your usual morning routine.

      • Anon

        I should add, I don’t usually use a separate eye cream. You can read about this but most eye creams are the same as whole-face moisturizers but just sold in tiny quantities. You can use most moisturizers right up to your eyes (anything without retinoids)

    • Anonymous

      I’m also extremely lazy. I solved the sleeping in makeup problem by giving up makeup (I’m only half kidding). Anyway I started getting Botox last year: highly, highly recommend. Tbh I wouldn’t bother with Sephora. Anything I’ve bought from there I don’t use after a week. All my products (except elta) come from the grocery store. I get Neutrogena Hydro Boost gel cream for applying at night in the winter (I live somewhere humid so I rarely need moisturizer). I occasionally use Cerave daily moisturizing lotion. I also purchased Cetaphil daily moisturizer but don’t like it as much; in case you want another option. For sunscreen I use EltaMD physical broad spectrum. I also like Maybelline dream bb fresh as a sunscreen/makeup combo (told you I’m lazy). These are all recommendations from other ‘rettes over the years.

    • Anon

      You should get micellar water and make the number one step cleaning off your makeup at night, if you do nothing else. A decent cleanser and moisturizer could be the foundation of a routine.

      Sounds like generally you’re blessed with good skin though!

    • Friday, please

      I hear you. If I don’t have a very scaled down skin routine I won’t do it. What helped me get into the routine is to do the nightly routine a bit earlier in the evening, like right after dinner, rather than right before bed when I was too tired. Once I got used to this I got used to having a clean face to sleep and it was very hard to go to bed without washing my face, so I would always do it even if I waited until right before bed.

      My routine at night is the following:
      -Wash (usually with Cetaphil)
      -Moisturize (I have tried a bunch of products, and just use what seems to moisturize best as I live in a dry climate)
      -Eye cream (same as moisturizer, I just use what seems to work best)

      Morning:
      -Moisturize with a product with SPF
      -Eye cream
      -Makeup (tinted moisturizer with SPF, mascara, blush, something on my lips-could be Aquaphor or tinted lip balm)
      -I don’t wash again in the morning; my face doesn’t get dirty while I sleep

      If I add one more step to this process, I won’t do it, so I have learned to keep it very simple! Also, my products have to be easily accessible, so they are almost always drugstore brands. If I have to go through a big effort to get a product, or if it’s very expensive, I won’t use it.

    • Anon

      Get some neutrogena wipes and leave them by the bed- super easy to take off makeup.

      Sunday Riley’s products are awesome, but if you don’t want to spend so much then the Ordinary’s Lactic Acid is a good sub for that. Swipe on after wipes.

      Also, if you are having dryness, then you can do a moisturizer over it to help at night and in the morning. The inkey list peptide moisturizer is good.

      Sunscreen- super easy shieshedo stick.

      All those recs are cheap to try since you are non-committal on skincare routine.

    • Anon

      I do a pretty basic skincare routine:
      PM
      – Remove makeup with Tatcha Camelia Oil
      – Wash with Avene Anti-Rougeurs Cleanser
      – Soolantra (for rosacea)

      AM
      – Wash with Avene Anti-Rougeurs Cleanser
      – Moisturize with La Roche Posay Toleriane Facial Fluide
      – Isdin Sunscreen

      Occasionally:
      – Herbivore Blue Tansy Face Mask
      – Spot treat with Differin gel for acne
      – In winter when things are really dry, I’ll add a layer of either Vanicream or Vaseline at night to keep in the moisture

    • Anon

      Recommendations for products available at Sephora:
      – Sunscreen: Paula’s Choice Super Light Daily Wrinkle Defense SPF 30
      – AHA: The Ordinary Glycolic Acid 7% Exfoliating Toning Solution
      -AHA if you have sensitive skin: The Ordinary’s Lactic Acid

      Other sunscreen recommendations:
      -Elta MD UV Physical Broad Spectrum SPF 41
      – La Roche Posay Anthelios SX SPF Moisturizer with Mexoryl SPF 15 (OK, I know this is only SPF 15, but it contains Mexoryl, which does a better job protecting against UVA than other FDA-approved sunscreen ingredients. I put this on first, let it sit for 3-5 minutes, then follow with the Elta MD 41 for higher coverage.)
      – Bondi Sands SPF 50 face lotion

  12. Anon today

    Asking for a friend: her son – who will be graduating with a BA this spring – received a job offer for a clerkship at the DOJ in the Antitrust Division. (From what info she has provided, DOJ recruited him to apply for this position.) The salary is about 50k at GS-7.

    Is that pay and that GS level at all negotiable?

    The young man is considering law school in the future; would accepting this position and having this experience be a “leg up” when applying to law school?

    I work for the Federal Government, but not DOJ. Does anyone recognize this as a program they have to bring recent grads with high potential into their agency?

    • Anon

      Law schools care about your GPA and LSAT score. It might help him in getting a 1L summer job, but isn’t going to spring him into a better law school than his stats would make him a candidate for.

      Blunt question: is there any reason that $50k a year for a newly minted grad with a BA (i.e. not an actuary or engineer) isn’t enough money? While more is better, it might come across as tone-deaf to ask to negotiate. Many actual prosecutors, with expensive law degrees, make about that much money.

    • Anon

      I mean he could try to negotiate but just out of college there’s not much leverage. Not in government but hire a lot of college kids and there’s tons of them so I’d consider it the least negotiable category. As for law school, he may learn some things that are useful in law school or gain insight into a career path, but law schools really don’t care what job you have (and many people go straight through). To the extent they do, I noticed at my law school, there were many more not-law type backgrounds than pre-law type jobs.

    • Anon

      I don’t have specific guidance but would be extremely doubtful that there is room to negotiate the GS level or salary.
      It is a great opportunity for someone interested in law school. I doubt it will give a significant leg up for admissions because schools mostly care about LSAT and grades, but will be quite helpful to figure out if this person actually wants to go to law school and then once this person is in hiring processes – having actually worked on a legal environment will let this person talk about their decision to go to law school and career goals in a much more sophisticated way. DOJ is very prestigious so will be great on the resume and this is an exciting time to do antitrust. For someone who got this role, there are likely jobs this person could get where they would make a lot more money like consulting or paralegal at a biglaw firm but I think this is an excellent option to actually learn and do cool work.

    • Anon

      Not at DOJ but I run an office with lots of folks at about that grade level and we are often asked if we can negotiate, and the answer is almost always no. I would guess it’s not negotiable unless he’s in a career ladder position and meets the on-paper qualifications for a GS-9, which most recent grads won’t. Typically a GS-7 is a bachelor’s degree with high academic achievement (aka good GPA) or with some grad school. IMHO, A GS-7 right out of college with better benefits than most of his classmates could hope for is pretty solid, particular at an agency that is as competitive as DOJ. If it the position does have a career ladder, he should consider what the jump to a 9 would do for his salary in one year’s time–it’s big leaps if you are moving up the ladder.

      Regardless, he should ask whomever in HR extended the informal offer. They’ll know. Hiring managers won’t get to overrule HR.

    • Anon

      Salary is likely not negotiable, and seems standard for a recent grad / no experience for a gov’t job.

      I don’t think this job would either help or hurt when applying to law school. Key is to have some combination of attractive features: grades, LSAT, interesting job, unique background or perspective, weird but memorable hobby or accomplishment. No one is going to have all of these things.

      I had very good (but not great) grades and LSAT, interesting job between college and law school – but if I’m honest, fairly certain I was an attractive candidate to some far away schools because I was from a state that they didn’t get a lot of applicants from (and that’s one of the school rankings criteria). A stupid metric, but it worked in my favor and I got into most places I applied.

    • Anonymous

      I didn’t think GS level was negotiable, especially at that entry level? And if he’s being offered 50k, that’s already at the highest step at GS-7, since I remember pay for much lower steps approximately 10 years ago was more like 30k.

      • anon

        I don’t know at the top of my head what step in GS7 50k would be for his location/city, and I’m also speaking as someone who entered the fed mid-career at a different agency, but it might be worthwhile to inquire what step they are starting him at and negotiate to a higher step? When I was offered my job, they gave me an offer at the lowest step of my GS level, which I then negotiated to a much higher step but with the caveat that I was able to point to my exiating salary, other offers on the table, and years of experience, all of which he may not have yet. Otherwise, everyone is right that there’s not going to be much wiggle room.

    • Katrinka

      LSAT and UG GPA are far and away the most important things when applying for law school. Sure, cool DOJ job won’t hurt, but it’s not going to get him into a school where he’s not already in-range, most likely. If he wants to go to law school, and his LSAT can get him in where he wants to go, i.e., he doesn’t need more time to study, I’d say just go. Why wait? The opportunity cost of working for a year at 50k, versus graduating law school a year earlier and making lawyer money, could be pretty significant. Again, this is assuming he would be able to get a good-paying job out of law school. If that’s not a fair assumption, he shouldn’t go.

      • Anon

        See the other thread though re why law school is a bad move. Working at DOJ may make him consider other life and career options that may be much better.

      • Anonymous

        I think this undervalues having some job experience. Not for the sake of getting into law school but just life experience. Maybe he’ll get a look at lawyer life and hate it!

        • Anon

          Yes yes yes. Before taking out a mortgage-worth of loans, see what the work is like first!

      • Anon

        Eh, I think this is really outdated advice (except for the “don’t go”) part. There’s so much value to understanding the legal world before going to law school, as mentioned above. If he’s getting paid $50k a year and is frugal with it, he can save up a fair amount of money which will help in law school and after graduation (e.g., if he gets a public service job that doesn’t pay for bar prep, the money is in the bank). I think there’s also value to working and paying bills before taking out a quarter-million dollars in non-dischargeable loans; there’s a better understanding of just how much life can cost you and how stressful it will be to have to pay three thousand dollars a month for ten or twenty years.

        He can use his salary for high-quality LSAT tutoring. At least in my experience, studying for the LSAT is nothing like studying for the SATs; the latter is really a month or two-month long project, while people can significantly improve their LSAT scores if they put in six months of studying. (I started off at a 168 and ended up with a 179.) Really nailing the LSAT will give him opportunities he otherwise wouldn’t have – a far better law school or scholarships at regional law schools.

        • Anonymous

          Wow. Is there any better testimony that LSAT scores are overvalued in the admissions process? I say this as a former LSAT teacher/tutor.

          • Anon

            Wow, you might want to consider how that statement comes off… I self-studied to get that score. The value of test prep is that it consolidates all the information that you could figure out on your own. (I also got a near-perfect SAT score without any formal test prep and simple review of the PSAT.)

    • anon a mouse

      Pay will almost certainly not be negotiable. For someone with a BA but no significant work experience, a GS7 is about right. He should understand whether it’s set at a 7 or whether it “ladders” up to a 9/11 or higher – that means that he can be promoted without having to apply, if his supervisor puts in for it.

      I know someone in that division and it’s full of interesting work and people. Can’t say that whether it will materially improve his law school chances but it should give him an up close look at what it’s like to actually be a government lawyer which will be valuable. And if he wants to return to public service after law school, he will come in with more service years.

    • Anon

      I work in government (state) and hire paralegals from among college grads, most of whom want to go to law school. The salary is probably not negotiable. The experience is great.

      Personally, I worked a law-adjacent job and not only did it help me get a full scholarship to law school, but it was a huge leg up in getting internships and a post-law school job. I also brought a very different perspective and experience with me when I got to law school — I was much less stressed out and had a much better sense of why I was in law school and what my career goals were than did the students who went straight through. 15 years into my career, I can say that of my law school classmates, those of us who worked for a few years between college and law school had an easier time early in our careers. Some law school friends who went straight through really floundered because they really didn’t have a great sense of what they wanted to do or what it looked like in real life — two ended up leaving law because they realized that they didn’t actually like being lawyers. The attorneys I met through my pre-law school job were invaluable mentors through school and early in my career — they were the ones that helped me prep for interviews, advised which of two internships to pick, etc, and I’m still in touch with several of them. And I think importantly, several people I worked with in that first job had wanted to go to law school but changed their minds and pursued different careers, and are happy with those decisions. I’m a huge advocate of working for a few years after undergrad, even if the eventual goal is law school.

      That said, I never did a federal clerkship, never worked in Big Law, and did not go to a top-10 LS, so if those are his goals then my experience may or may not be applicable.

    • Anon

      As others have said, working for a bit (especially lawyer-adjacent like this position) can be extremely valuable to him personally in deciding whether he really does want to go to law school and setting him up for success when he gets there. The job itself won’t hurt his law school apps and might help a bit on the margin, depending on the rest of his application–I applied with a high LSAT and mediocre GPA, was waitlisted at a range of T14 options (admitted outright to a couple of good but not T14 schools where my LSAT was above their range) and was ultimately admitted to one. I strongly suspect that the interesting, competitive, law-adjacent job from which I was applying pushed me (1) onto the waitlist (from the reject pile) at some places and (2) eventually from waitlist to admit at the school I eventually attended.

    • Anon

      I was in his position when I graduated a few years ago. I was offered the 7 in a 7/9/11 ladder and negotiated into a 9. BUT by the time I graduated, I had interned full-time with the agency for several years (fun story when your parents tell you last minute they’re not paying for college like they promised, so you’re forced to work full time to avoid student loans…but that’s for another time). So, I had an established reputation and highly motivated senior leadership. I’m a 13 at the same agency now, and am glad I negotiated because it opened up opportunities that would not have been available at a 7.

      I agree with other commenters that it’s not likely, but the worst they can say is no. Given how onerous the federal hiring process is, DOJ is not likely to withdraw the offer just because he asks. Also consider whether a step increase makes sense. I had a recent grad friend just go through this, and I suggested she negotiate a step increase vs. a GS level. She got it!

      • PolyD

        Yeah, I wasn’t a new grad, but I negotiated up a grade level because the grade level they offered me was a lower salary than that of the job I was leaving. I’m in a science-related job and I think the HR-type people who initially offer the job don’t understand that, say, a PhD in molecular biology and a PhD in genetics are essentially the same. They just try to match up words.

        True story: I have a friend with a PhD in genetics who was in the final phases of getting a job at NIH, and the HR person, who had access to her CV/resume, asked my friend if she had any coursework in genetics.

    • Anon

      My best friend from law school work at DOJ or FTC in antitrust before school for a few years. He enjoyed it and had a fun time in DC, and it did help him with interviewing for biglaw (although he also had great grades). I think 50K is typical for a paralegal salary, although in biglaw, entry level paralegals will make OT on top of that too.

  13. Anon

    Someone please reassure me that I’m overthinking and that this will somehow work out. I’m a finalist for a management position in government, and this morning a source over there told me that they are almost sure they are going to make me an offer, just waiting for a pre-scheduled meeting to confirm. The position has been open since the last person retired some months ago, and they are eager to get the new person in and have them ramp up quickly, but because of how slow approvals and background checks can be, they don’t expect to have the new person start until July. The problem is, I have a week’s vacation booked in late august, and I’m getting married in mid-September and immediately going on a 2 week honeymoon. I’ve been at my current job for 12 years, have tons of PTO saved up, which is why I planned on this. But I have no idea how I could possibly manage this amount of time off two months into a new job, especially as a manager. I had hoped that slow government hiring would mean that by the time we go there I could somehow negotiate an October start date, but pushing July to October seems like a tad much. Advice appreciated.

    • Anon

      You just tell them this stuff is on the books and you go. People have lives and get hired with lives all the time.

    • Anon

      Obviously not all government is the same, but no one at my government employer would bat an eye at a new employee (even a manager) taking pre planned time off, especially for a wedding! They have been functioning without you for some amount of time. There’s no reason they can’t function without you during that time as well. At my agency, you can borrow unearned leave or take leave without pay.

    • AnonFed

      I had a baby two weeks into a new federal job. Unless they are jerks, leadership gets that a) life happens and b) there are a lot of factors that make start dates for new hires very difficult to control. I was transferring from another agency, and it took months to get me on board. I think if you get an offer you could just ask if they’d prefer you to push your start date or take the leave.

    • Anon

      As someone who hires in the government: the process is so long and drawn out that I don’t bat an eye at all when someone comes on board with pre-planned vacation or if they delay a start date to accommodate that pre-planned travel. Someone has probably been acting in that position while they hire so they’ll be someone who knows enough to back you up if you are gone.

      When all the background check, etc., is done and you get the formal offer and are negotiating an official EOD, I suggest letting HR know you need to be gone for [these dates]. In my agency, they let the hiring office know and ask if we have any problem accommodating that and if we want to push the start date later. I always say we’ll accommodate unless the length of time exceeds my authority to grant LWOP.

      After the huge lift of hiring, I would not rescind an offer to a candidate or quibble over a few months or a few trips.

      • Anon

        Oh, just be forewarned that the leave would like be LWOP. You can’t borrow advanced AL past the end of the leave year.

        • Anon

          Okay, okay, last thought: that’s true in the federal government, at least. No idea for state, local, or another country. Now I’m done!

    • Anon

      So basically you tell the new place you have some days off planned. You’ll get paid out for your unused PTO when you leave the current company so that’s what will be paying for your vacation days. The new company will generally have you take those days unpaid. It’s usually not a big deal at all.

    • Anon

      Thank you all for the reassurance! I was pretty sure I was worrying for nothing and with your blessing I will move on to worrying about the next thing :)

  14. Diana Barry

    Just a rant – at this time of year I am always SO DONE with all of my winter outfits (fleece lined pants, etc.) but it is still cold in my house, so here I am sitting in jeans but with heattech leggings underneath (so it’s not all that comfy) and a blanket over. Rrrgh.

    • Anon

      Sing it!

      I’m at work and the weather outside is delightful today (just today though) but we turned the A/C on and I sit under a vent and what is the cold-air equivalent of a blast furnace? At any rate, I wore boots just to have the wool socks trying to keep me warm. Imma getting an office Snuggie.

      • Anon

        Ha — not the OP on this, but heat used to be my employer’s expense and now it’s mine. And heat just keeps getting more expensive. The blankets are never not out at my place.

        • Anon

          I hate this. Our electric and heating bills have gone up massively since WFH. No compensation, of course. And I still have to commute to take my kid into employer-based daycare so it’s not like I’m even saving on gas for my car.

      • Diana Barry

        Yeah, someone always suggests this. I have an old and drafty house in New England…I’d rather keep the heat low and not spend more $$ on it, notwithstanding my complaints!

        • Anon

          Have you ever looked into getting smart vents? I live in a house that originally had no insulation (we got the attic done but can’t do anything about the walls) and use Flair smart vents to maintain a better temp in some rooms. They basically will close vents in unused rooms once a desired temp is reached and open then again when necessary. I’m surprised at how well they’ve worked – just closing off vents at the front of the runs pushes the heat into the chillier rooms upstairs. It’s like zoned heating for people who can’t zone it the right way.

        • Anon

          As someone who lived in an old, drafty New England house, I hear you. Space heaters and thick wool carpets are the only solution to this problem. Often, the heat is zoned for the entire house, so you can’t just turn up the heat in your office; you’re heating 3,000 or 4,000 square feet.

    • Anon

      I hate pre-spring. Last week we had one day in the 60s, then the next day we had freezing rain that snapped off all the buds.

      I’m staying in sweatshirts and joggers until spring proves to me that she means it.

    • Grace

      Sympathy. I live in an area with weird weather, so this weekend it was doing that awful thing where the wind is 30 mph (so you have to wear a jacket or you’ll freeze) but the actual temperature is 60-70F (so if you do have something keeping the wind off you, you’ll bake). Can’t wait for it to calm down and move into actual summer.

    • Monday

      I’m often in this situation. I keep a few super-warm but brightly colored items in my wardrobe so that I can feel like I have some sense of spring when I wear them, but am not freezing.

    • Anne-on

      Same. We had ‘fake spring’ in New England for a week or so, I brought out my fun tops and dresses, and now we’re back to a combination of hail(!!), sleet, snow, rain, and random sunny 50 degree days just to mess with us. I’m back to wool socks and layers since I’m tired of optimistically pulling out my lighter spring blouses and freezing by noon.

      • pugsnbourbon

        Yeah we have snow flurries in the forecast for Saturday. We’ll get a beautiful, 72-degree Tuesday and then the weekend is just a mess. I wanna drink on a patio!!!!

        • Anon

          I’m in Indiana too and this spring has been the worst for all the beautiful days falling on weekdays.

    • Bonnie Kate

      I have heat :) and I still 100% agree with your rant. This time of year is the worst. I want to throw out all my sweaters that I loved in January because I am so sick of looking at them. I’m wearing a lot of hoodies (well button up fleece today) instead because I just cannot try harder with this weather.

  15. In house?

    For lawyers who have left private practice and gone in house, was the grass actually greener for you? I lateraled to a firm that is just a bad fit for me. I now have an opportunity to go in house, which is something I’ve never really wanted to do — but I need a next move and so I’m considering it. Obviously, every company is different, so how do I figure out if this is right for me?

    • Anon

      Yes, but it takes a certain personality to thrive in-house. You need to be less academic, more practical and comfortable handling business issues that aren’t solely legal. You need to be willing to do things outside your exact specialty. You also need to enjoy forming relationships that last with internal people – you’re joining a legal department but also a company.

    • AFT

      It’s not always greener, but in ~90%+ of in-house roles, work-life balance will be better, you’ll be able to regain more control of your scheudles, and often people are generally nicer (at last for litigation, you’re not fighting directly with counsel as much and you can always assign out the unpleasant work if needed). If there are aspects of being at a law firm that you really like and would miss (e.g., do you like going to trial? do you like working on cutting edge legal work versus more mundate/rote work?) definitely consider that… but there’s a rason most people don’t go back to a firm after heading in-house. In-house horror stories are much less common that firm horror stories. Good luck in your search!
      Source: In-house for several years after a decade at biglaw firms.

    • anon

      Yes, absolutely. But as others have said, in-house isn’t for everyone. I came to law school with a business background and the desire to be a true business advisor. In-house is my jam. I have never looked back.

    • Anon

      I’m corporate, and I really enjoyed my time in-house, but am back in private practice in biglaw. I was at two hypergrowth mid-/late-stage companies, and while I did not work that many weekends on short notice (I did work weekends, to be clear), I worked very, very long hours, particularly before the legal teams scaled and I was a one-woman show doing ALL THE THINGS (which now are jobs for like 10+ people–it was incredibly stressful). As mentioned above, you need to be comfortable with ambiguity/making a call (to the extent it’s Legal’s call to make), working closely with non-lawyers, negotiations (this is a big leap from biglaw where you often aren’t the negotiator on deals as a midlevel), and proceeding in the face of some (not no) risk.

      I really loved being in house, did well with my equity, but am back in biglaw for the $$, for now, as senior associate salaries are at unprecedented levels.

      While I wouldn’t say you can “always” go back, I’ve found learning new things and expanding my practice areas in house to be really fun. I was corporate in biglaw, and in house I was corporate, real estate, IP, commercial, employment…you name it, it became my job. If you go to a more mature legal team, you might find the opposite and be very narrowly siloed. (This happened later at my second in-house gig and I hated it!)

  16. Carol

    I’m noticing a pattern with the man I’ve been dating for 3 months that I am maybe overreacting to.

    We don’t text that much, mainly to plan things OR to share something specific, like a funny video or picture we think the other would like. That’s the way I like it – I’ve hated “good morning” etc texts in the past. If I text him he replies pretty quickly and tbh often immediately.

    I was looking through old texts and I realized that 1) I asked for most of the dates (“Hey are we meeting tomorrow?”) although he was happy to plan them once prompted and 2) I start most of the random communication, which he then happily replies to.

    I know part of it is that I’m a planner. For example, next week I know that I have long-ago planned things on Thursday night, Friday night, and Saturday during the day. Someone just invited me to an event on Wednesday – the guy I’m dating and I often meet on Wednesdays so idk if I should say yes to that event or not.

    In person we get along great. I just worry that I’m the one pushing the relationship along, and what if he doesn’t actually want to meet on XYZ dates but is going along with it because I asked etc.

    He’s pretty independent and also a bit shy. It could just be that he is used to letting his friends plan things so thats what he is defaulting to here too. But I’m not sure.

    • Monday

      Just don’t initiate the next plan or conversation. See whether he does it. There’s your answer IMO.

    • Cat

      ha, this reminds me of The Rules from the 90s. some of their advice is dated but personally I have always agreed that an interested guy will want to know the next time he’s going to see you. he doesn’t reach out to plan? then you already have plans and he learns he needs to ask earlier!

      YMMV but I find lack of initiative to be a turn-off so would let this guy go if that’s the natural consequence of this test.

      • Anon

        Same here. I also found the old gem “he’s just not that into you” to be spot on. Interested people pursue. Less interested people hang out for a while in a holding pattern.

        • Anonymous

          +1 million. I wish that book was out when I was dating. With a previous boyfriend I would always make excuses: “He just got back from a business trip and he’s tired”. “He has a night planned with his friends”. etc… My now husband was never to tired to make the effort to see me. He drove 40 miles regularly to see me. It’s so true. When someone wants you, you know it.

    • Cornellian

      I don’t think it’s a bad sign of his interest in you, it sounds like it’s consistent with the rest of his relationships. I don’t know whether you are thinking you want to get married/have kids/etc, but I might bring it up now that you would appreciate him reaching out/planning dates/etc occasionally, because the burden of being the planner and initiator only gets bigger if you’re thinking marriage/kids/etc

      • Carol

        Now that I think about it, between my mom and dad my mom is definitely the social butterfly. We often joke that mom has friends and dad is friends with moms friends husbands. I’ve seen people mention Fair Play cards here and my dad has the “full card” for anything relating to the house/yard/finances but my mom does a lot of the party and social life planning. He helps and has ideas and is involved, but she initiates.

    • Anon

      Three months in, you should be able to communicate this to him. “I feel like I initiate most of our dates and chats. I would like it if you took more initiative.”

      Failing that, just stop initiating and see what he does.

      But I wouldn’t turn down something you’d like do do because you think you might have plans with him that you have to initiate on Wednesday. If you haven’t made plans already, you’re free Wednesday.

      • Carol

        I do want to go to this thing on Wednesday, and you’re right, why the heck am I altering life plans around a guy, who am I. It means that I don’t have much free time next week but if he wants to see me he can either schedule earlier or just wait.

      • Anonymous

        The older I get the more I realize that communication is overrated in early dating. This isn’t some complex issue that OP needs to talk out. This is really basic stuff. No man is confused about the fact that he needs to ask a woman out if he wants to see her – and if he is then he is not ready to date nevertheless to be in a relationship. If he’s not willing to take initiative then he’s not worthy of your time. Do not tie yourself in knots making excuses and cOmMuniCaTiNg about something that should be an easy “next.”

        This is why single women shouldn’t listen to their married friends about the early days of dating. You give your spouse the benefit of the doubt. You communicate with your spouse. But you’ve already vetted him. If a potential love interest doesn’t meet very basic standards like showing interest, then don’t communicate or make excuses, move on to the next guy.

        • Monday

          Was about to comment the same thing, essentially.

          Starting a conversation about your feelings is a heavy emotional lift. I used to do it all the time in early dating situations, but as I got older I learned it isn’t worth it–at least not for something as basic as “you don’t contact me or initiate dates.” Don’t spend the effort. If he doesn’t figure it out on his own, that means he doesn’t care (or is otherwise not partner material for whatever reason). You don’t want any relationship where you’re doing all the work and showing all the interest.

    • Anonymous

      You’re right to break this habit early on. You want a partner who is excited to see you and will take the initiative to make that happen and plan fun things to do with you. You don’t want to date a man who is lazy, complacent, boring, and not that interested in you. Don’t make excuses for him. If he wanted to he would.

    • eertmeert

      Communicate this with him in person. Give him a chance to use his words and nonverbal communication. You will get better information from him this way.
      Playing games isn’t fair and leads to frustration. He can’t read your mind.
      Also, don’t save Wednesdays for him. But in this instance, maybe tell him you are booking something with someone else.

      • Monday

        I disagree that letting him put in the same effort she does is “playing games” or expecting “mind reading.”

        The best information comes from people’s actions, not their words.

        • eertmeert

          If she isn’t that into him, then whatever, doesn’t matter. If this is a connection she believes in, communicate. Be direct. Say what you want.

          These two established a pattern by default. I also think that the best info comes from actions, but the ground rules need to be established. Once a pattern is established, speak up to change it.

          To our detriment, women often default to not communicating expectations.

    • Ribena

      There’s a similar vibe with the guy I’m seeing (2.5 months here). He is however like this with his group of friends – they’re all very spontaneous and will make plans on the day generally – and in person he acts incredibly appreciative and affectionate (not in a love-bombing kind of way). It’s something I’m learning to be fine with – it’s not a deal breaker, he’s shown me he likes me, I like him, it’s good. Last weekend I did set a little bit of a ‘test’ where I said ‘let’s go out somewhere a little bit nicer than usual, I want an excuse to dress nice’ and he went full shirt and tie without my even suggesting it – his normal clothes would have been totally fine at the bar we went to. So that was also reassuring!
      What we have done is added a standing Tuesday night trivia night date so that has massively helped my anxiety because I don’t have to worry if it’s happening or exactly what’s happening.

      • Ribena

        I suppose extra information here is that we text pretty constantly throughout the week and that I like pretty much everything else about him (he’s also much more relaxed about money than I am which is totally true to character)

  17. Anon

    I have a crazy neighbor. Please share your crazy neighbor stories and commiserate with me.

    • Anon

      I have a revolving door of crazy neighbors who have lived in the house next to me over the years. My favorite however, is that one weekday morning about two days after these particular neighbors moved in, I got up to go to my 530 am workout class and walked out of my house (completely dark) to find a man curled up in the grass next to my front steps sleeping, with his shoes off set neatly beside him. I live in the suburb of a southern city and my house/neighborhood is not within walking distance of literally anything except other houses, so I had no idea where he had come from at this point, as I had never even seen the new neighbors. He was sleeping pretty soundly, so I just dashed to my car as quickly as I could. When I got home an hour later he was gone, but there was one wet, black sock on my front porch in front of the door, and then a different wet sock on my back patio by the back door (I have a completely fenced yard, and my house is raised, so you would have to walk up steps to get to either door). The neighbor’s house is not raised; no steps. My husband and I were completely baffled for a couple of weeks until we saw that old teen/young adult son and figured out it was him sleeping in the yard. (And I guess trying to get into our house). It was super weird. They also would leave their dog out barking allllll night and eventually I had to go over at 1 am-ish and say hi, pls bring your dog in.

      Those people are gone and now there is an extremely large group of people (easily seems like over a dozen people are living there – I’m very confused because it’s a tiny house) who live there and LOVE, love, love karaoke. Every single weekend it’s like a concert. In Portuguese. For hours and hours on end, both weekend days.

    • Anon

      Our (large but friendly) dog pulled away from my elementary school kid on a walk and ran up to the lady across the street when she was walking her tiny dogs. She yelled at my kid and called him an “f***ing a$$h*le.” When my spouse confronted her about it, she doubled down and said “Yeah, I called him that, because he’s a f***ing a$$h*le.” That conversation did not go well. Haven’t spoke in years now.

      • pugsnbourbon

        Whoa – I mean it’s scary to have a dog run up on you (it’s happened to me, my dog is smaller but reactive) but jeez don’t cuss out a kid!

        • Anon

          Yes, would have been very fine if she scolded him for not holding on tighter or told him that was scary or anything like that. I’m fine with other adults correcting my kid. But swearing at a 10 year old? Yowza.

      • Anonymous

        Just because your dog was friendly doesn’t mean hers was. I had my dog mauled in front of me once by an off-leash dog. Literally covered in his blood. Not excusing swearing to a kid, but I don’t think you grasp what that experience probably felt like to her, especially if he didn’t make reasonable attempts to contain it because he just assumed “he’s friendly.”

        • Anon

          This has happened to us too and it was really traumatizing. I’m a little extra about off-leash dogs now too. Idk that I would curse out a kid, but it is a big deal to me.

          • Anon

            A dog pulling away isn’t an off-leash dog though. Those are dogs that the owner never bothers leashing in the first place.

          • Anonymous

            Seriously? Whether the dog breaks free or is off leash to begin with doesn’t matter if it goes for your dog. Any dog not curbed is an off-leash dog. In some ways, those that break free can actually present more of a threat as presumably the person not using a leash by choice presumes their dog is under voice command.

        • Anon

          I do grasp it and I’m not saying he shouldn’t have held onto the leash because she’s friendly. He should have, but she got away. He’s never walked her again out of fear of a repeat. I have three dogs, one of whom is very reactive and will bite if approached while on a leash. I have to intervene when off leash dogs approach him all the time. But I manage to do it without swearing at someone or calling them names, and they are adults who know better. If she had even said “That sucked for me and I’m sorry I called him that”–cool cool. That’s not how it went. He lost the leash. The dog ran up and sniffed. She swore at him when he ran up to catch the dog. He was terrified. When confronted after the fact she swore again. Her boyfriend got hauled off by cops for threatening a neighbor, so this is not out of character for their household.

          • Huh

            Her reaction was insane and out of line and I have no idea why people are blaming you! My goodness.

      • Anon

        Yeah, this is completely inappropriate. She should have been cussing out you for having a large untrained dog and putting your large untrained dog in the care of an elementary school child. This isn’t the child’s or the dog’s fault.

        • Anon

          You’re right that is was a parent mistake, not a kid one, though I truly hope most of us don’t solve conflict by cussing at people. If I swore at someone and called them names every time their (intentionally) off-leash dog came up to one of mine–even my leash aggressive dog–I’d be the crazy neighbor.

          If I could go back in time we wouldn’t have let him try it. It was his first and only attempt at going solo up and down the block with her. After that, he even took her to training himself after that to improve his handling skills/confidence and improve her respect for him since she had trained with us but never with a kid. Even so, he’s afraid of a repeat so won’t handle her on a walk unless an adult is with him, even as a now-teen. I don’t have a time machine so that’s the best I can do as a parent, a dog-owner, and a neighbor.

          Not defending off-leash dogs. Because all dogs involved were friendly, this was an unintentional scare, not an emergency.

          • Anon

            I really think society needs to do a reset on its attitude towards friendly big dogs. I know two older women whose lives were shortened when a friendly dog bounded up to them off leash, knocked them over, and broke their hips. Maybe no one should be cussing anyone out, but people are way too cavalier about the risks they’re creating by not training their dogs.

          • Anon

            (And the dogs in both cases were genuinely great dogs — very friendly and excited to see people. They don’t know any better!)

          • Anonymous

            I’m sorry your son went through that. What was the point of sending your husband though? To make her also scared? I would never cuss at a kid, but I also don’t think you are grasping the gravity of the initial situation you created or how you responded. I’d dislike both of you guys as neighbors.

          • Anon

            110% agree, Anon @2:35 PM. The way the U.S. acts in regards to dogs is out of control.

            Not only can it be a safety matter, but automatically assuming everyone likes and wants to be around dogs makes me insane. They’re everywhere, and not just service dogs. Society has decided that it’s great if people take their dogs everywhere, including to grocery stores and malls. They’re smelly, dirty animals. They don’t belong rubbing against produce and clothing that people want to buy.

            Nobody would dream of allowing people to take their cats or their snakes everywhere with them, but dogs get a pass. It’s nuts. There was a dog in the hospital when I went for an MRI–why? Because the lab tech was bored and wanted to take it with her into the control room. Millions of dollars worth of equipment and medically fragile patients everywhere–but Makayluh needs her precious foo-foo by her side to do her job properly? If I was running the place, she would have been terminated and escorted out on the spot.

          • Anon

            He went out because his 10 year old came inside crying immediately after and said a lady told him he was a “f***ing a$$h*le” so he went out to find out what happened because it wasn’t clear. Would you not? Her adult sons would make snarky remarks about crybaby kids any time they saw us or our kids outside for a few months after that. If I thought this was simply a fear response, I would have been more gracious about it long ago.

            Please see above on everything that happened after–we took it very seriously and worked with both kids and dog to improve his control. I agree dog owners should respect boundaries. Our dogs don’t go to stores, or restaurants, or doctor’s offices. Despite the aftermath, I felt crummy and still feel crummy that it happened at all. It hasn’t happened in the three years since.

            What else do you want me to say? I didn’t say it wasn’t a big deal that it happened. I’m really thankful my dog didn’t jump or bite and neither did hers. My point was that abusive language, particularly to and about a child–a child that will live across from her for years–was a wild overreaction to, well, most things. If it were just the dog incident, we could apologize profusely and promise to take every precaution so she’s not in that situation again and move forward productively. But that’s not what happened. She called him a nasty a name and then when spouse asked what happened, she essentially said, “I meant it and I’ll do it again.” Then her adult children mocked our kid for months.

            I’m sorry you wouldn’t like us as neighbors. We try really hard to be helpful, sociable, and to communicate calmly in the rare instance something is up.

            Okay, I’m done. I often wish people would stop over-defending themselves here, but I see how it happens. Egg on my face.

    • VeryAnon

      My crazy neighbor is suing me for something very very dumb and very unwinnable (for him). And this is after I went above and beyond typical neighbor behavior to help him with something. (Sorry for vagueness, see pending lawsuit.)

    • Bonnie Kate

      not mine, but my friend had a neighbor teenager boy who essentially stalked on his bike her while she was on a run, then sped past and slapped her butt. She ran home (closer) and her husband went to the parents immediately to address it, and then the police got involved, etc. FUN. The really crappy thing is now in the summer when the kid is out of school she really doesn’t feel comfortable running/walking in her neighborhood alone, which in generally should be a very safe neighborhood but the kid is still around. During the school year she talks daily walks/runs, so it really sucks she has to worry about that in the summer.

    • Anon

      My former neighbors were an old commune. We heard a lot of fights and a lot of sex. I found out later that the old guy leader expected all the women to have sex with him, even those who were simply renting a room and not part of the collective.

    • Anon

      Mine is a middle-aged “tough guy” who moved here from the Bronx and who tells endless stories about the injuries he got playing college ball. Every recitation, the number of concussions changes. Not surprisingly, he is quick to anger, and never retains memories of what we discussed. I’ve had to make the same requests over and over because nothing sticks. If my life was a movie, imagine 100 First Dates mixed with Neighbors mixed with The Sopranos.

    • Thistle

      Crazy ex-neighbour at the bottom of the garden tormented her shared wall neighbour by putting her washing machine on at 5.30am. Daily and for years. And if anyone put out a washing, she immediately put one out also. She also put all her food scraps out “for the birds” and then complained about the squirrels.

      And any time any neighbour went out into their own garden to do anything (even just to sit) she kicked her poor husband outside to work on the garden. It would have been funny except he was in his late 70s and 80s at the time and laterly visibly struggling.

    • Anonymous

      When we moved into our house in the 1990s when I was a kids and had a neighbor who was about my parents’ age but lived with his own mom next door in his childhood home. My mom had to throw out a mattress so she put it at the end of the driveway, leaning against our garbage cans, for the garbage truck. For whatever reason, this angered the guy and he freaked out, screamed at called her a really horrible slur that was applicable to my (Jewish) dad but not to her and she’d never heard it before. So she had to call my dad to figure out what level of offense to take. Anyway…we all just avoided him because he was obviously an insane lunatic. But then some really gardening magazines for men about men addressed to him came to our mailbox, so my mom managed to discreetly hand them off to him without angering him and they were pretty cordial like normal neighbors for 20+ years after that. It’d still insane to me that she managed to win this guy over. The rest of us just avoided him.

    • Anon

      We had a neighbor at a prior house that got tired of picking up dog poop in his backyard and concreted in the ENTIRE backyard, fence line to fence line, so that he could then just hose off the concrete. We were about to list our house, and I was afraid it would affect our ability to sell, but it ended up fine. I do wonder about his ability to resell, though.

      Our prior neighbor at our current house was a big cross fitter, which is fine, but he’d start his garage workouts at 5:00 a.m. and his workouts were LOUD. Lots of loud grunts and groans. That one was actually pretty funny.

      I realized belatedly that a neighbor at a prior house was watching me run on the treadmill in the evenings, after he commented to me. Closed the blinds after that.

    • Staying Anon for this one..... I know people

      It’s not me, but my sister who seems to have cornered the market on crazy neighbors. Her entire neighborhood is loony-toons.

      When she first moved in, there was a Hispanic family living next door to her. She said they were friendly enough, but she was convinced there were about 20 people living in that house. She said it was like watching clowns come out of a car every morning when they left for school or work, there were so many people leaving every day. They moved and a group of young men moved in. She wasn’t sure if they were astrophysicists or Jehovah’s Witnesses, but there were quite a few of them all dressed the same and leaving on foot every morning. My mom told her it could be a cult. That didn’t fly well with Sis. Now we’re convinced the guy living there is a drug dealer due to some shady stuff going on.

      Then there’s the guy two houses down who came marching down Sis’s driveway when my BIL had supper on the grill. He was raging because BIL was “making all that smoke.” BIL told him he was cooking his dinner and the guy seemed to simmer down and went away, but any time there’s a cause for a ruckus, that guy is in the middle of it — kids playing outside? Dogs barking? Someone cutting grass on a weekend? Yep. He’s losing his shit.

      The lady across the street called the cops on my BIL because he was “blocking the road” — he was backing his truck down the driveway. Meanwhile, nobody in her family parks their cars in their driveway and they block the road all the time. Another lady across the street watches out her window with binoculars. My sister’s old boss (who she couldn’t stand) moved two houses down the other direction. He’s now an over-the-road truck driver and when he’s not around, his wife parades all around the neighborhood in the skimpiest outfits she can find and then tells the hubby that the men in the neighborhood are hitting on her. Trust me, they’re not.

      And the neighborhood gossip waits for houses to go on sale and goes to the open house just to snoop around in the house. When my sister had a going-away party for one of the two decent neighbors she had, Gossip Girl showed up, claimed her mom lived in my sister’s house and asked if she could take a walk around. Sis didn’t know any different at that time and said okay — until she heard a closet door opening upstairs and that’s when she put the stops to that whole adventure.

      They really need to film a reality show in my sister’s neighborhood. That many weirdos in one place would make for some seriously crazy TV.

      • Anonymous

        Call me crazy, but I’d take living next to a poor Hispanic family–even if they look like clowns–over a racist any day.

      • Anon

        “They really need to film a reality show in my sister’s neighborhood. That many weirdos in one place would make for some seriously crazy TV.”

        There’s a common denominator here . . .

        • SCM II - I'm the evil sister

          Seems I found some of my sister’s neighbors…. I knew I knew people here.

          So, which one of you is wearing the skimpy get-ups and parading all her goodies around the cul-de-sac?

          And which one of you is Gossip Girl? There’s a house up for sale I’d like some deets on.

          I wouldn’t speak too loudly about judgmental here. I used to post here as SteelCityMagnolia. Y’all remember me? Remember how horrible and judgmental some (or maybe most) of y’all were to me? Glass houses, ladies. Glass houses.

          Bless your hearts… your evil, judgmental, conclusion-jumping hearts. Not a damn thing has changed here since I left.

      • Anon

        Wow tell me more about the races of people in your sister’s neighborhood and why she is better than them.

    • pugsnbourbon

      The guys who live behind us had 20 chickens. TWENTY. At least two were roosters. Did you know roosters crow all. the. time? 3 am? Rooster crow. 5 pm? C-ck-a-doodle-do. And they smelled so, so bad.

      And then one day they were gone. I have no idea what happened to them and I frankly don’t want to know.

      • Anon

        Oh wow. There is a reason roosters are often banned even where chickens are allowed.

        Chickens don’t always have to reek but I 100% believe you that these people’s did.

        • Anon

          Ugh I had three hens and one of them decided to become a rooster (this is a thing, you can look it up) so she crowed every morning AND laid eggs. We changed her name to Bruce – get it? – but I did feel bad about the crowing.

          Anyway, the racoons killed my hens in a gory bloodbath one night and we never got any more. I miss the eggs. My neighbors have two hens now and I find all their clucking and their egg laying songs delightful.

    • Anonymous

      I live in a completely gentrified neighborhood, except for one house. It’s rented by meth heads that scream at eachother at all hours of the night, routinely kick in the doors, and even once lit the house on fire. They’re the worst, there’s so many interpersonal problems between the methy roommates. They also like to steal sh*t, their yard is just piled high with stolen goods that aren’t even good anymore because they’ve been rained and snowed on. Ugh I hate them. They’ve managed to sabotage several sales of the house too, people want to buy the house and fix it, but the meth heads are devious.

    • Seventh Sister

      I have two!

      We have a guy on the corner who has filled his entire yard with junk. If I was still talking to him, he’d say it’s his collection of antique furniture and plant nursery but it includes inoperable cars, pieces of old machinery, random buckets of who knows what, just all kinds of crap. He always has something for “sale” by the curb, usually some type of plant cutting or rusted out bed frame. He sprayed me in the face with the hose because “I was watering my plants” and barely apologized. I lost my temper at him and told him *exactly* what I think about him and his gross yard. Lucky for me, he’s never talked to me again.

      The family that lives in the house behind our house is awful and I’ve definitely gotten closer to my other neighbors because we all have issues with these people. The patriarch has refused to speak with us after I complained to him a decade ago that his dogs would throw themselves at the fence, barking and snarling, every time I opened our back door to walk into *my* backyard. We’re “mean” and “hate dogs” because their dogs are outside all day long with nothing to do. The adult son was very fond of watching blue movies on his big-screen tv, no curtains. Dude, get a phone!

      • Anon

        Re the movies, I was driving down I-95 at night and the car in front of me was making us all watch some nasty movie. When the sun goes down, it’s amazing how hard it is to visually avoid while looking ahead.

        • Seventh Sister

          Oh that is a nightmare! I think ours finally stopped because we’d totally make fun of his movies while his window was open.

      • Anon

        Oh my god, my brother in law lives on your corner. According to my niblings (his step children) their homeowners insurance has been cancelled for years because there is no egress from the back yard to the front yard due to his junk collection.

    • Anon

      I have a crazy-fun neighbor. He owns his own landscaping business but makes most of his money from his very popular youtube channel. He gets free equipment to review / try out all the time. At first it was weird to have a neighbor walking around with a camera and filming himself all the time, but he’s great. Very much a do-it-yourself type, so there are constantly weird contraptions and creations in his yard, but he’s not a hoarder and things don’t sit out once the project is finished. He also knows *everybody* so he’s a great resource when you need an expert is some weird house or yard related thing.

      • Anon

        I like this one a whole lot better than all the “my neighbor doesn’t live the way I want them to” stories.

    • Anon

      Oooh! I’ve bought two houses from the former “crazy neighbors”. The lady living in the house previously asked the neighbors to cut down their tree because it was blocking her view (and – shockingly, they did!), called in another neighbors wind chimes to the cops repeatedly because it disturbed her sleep, and asked another neighbor to remove their backyard trampoline because the kids were too noisy.

      In another house, there the dude that lived there previously screamed and cussed out EVERYONE via his many, many surveillance cameras. Cussed out kids if the ball drifted into the lawn, cussed out anyone who parked on the street in front of the house, put up cones and no trespassing signs along the property line (mind you…this house is a very typical suburban house in a family neighborhood). Crazy neighbor built a literal wall between his house and the neighbor he hated the most and it fell over from being poorly constructed, so crazy neighbor had to haul it all away. When we bought the house, my parents pulled up and walked along the side walk to check it out and they had the luxury of being cussed out by the guy via the cameras as well.

      Meanwhile, the crazy dude didn’t pay his property taxes the entire time he lived there, he, his wife and their young five children did not own a car instead using uber (mind you…this is suburbia and mass transit is not a thing.) The five young children were never seen – only occasionally in a window peaking out of the blinds. The dude manufactured a niche health product out of the house, but it’s widely assumed to have been a cover for some other sort of manufacturing operation. I got the weirdest mail from various suppliers in the mail forever after (not paying bills seemed to be a routine thing.)

    • Anonymous

      On one side I have an anxious nuclear physicist who reads the Nextdoor app and used to text me lengthy messages about various petty crime in the area. She is friends with my landlord and has snooped around in my unit before to “check on things”. She keeps an eye on the shared common outdoor space between our units, and, to add outdoor lighting at night, she aims the light of multiple desk lamps out of her upstairs windows. Also, her car alarm goes off every time she enters or exits her car. On the other side is a jovial chain smoking hardware store clerk who alternates between smoking skunk-like pot and tobacco on his porch. For almost a year he has been trying to sell a set of patio furniture he somehow got stuck with and can’t return to the hardware store, but no takers so far. He puts it out on display with a for sale sign every week.

    • ALT

      This isn’t crazy at all and I actually think he’s a great guy, but my upstairs neighbor is a BIG singer and I frequently hear him singing Whitney Houston or Celine Dion songs while he’s in the shower or cleaning…it cracks me up every time.

  18. Emma

    Thoughts on improving self-confidence / working on insecurity? Would love any book recommendations / tips that folks have to share!

    • Auburn

      I am in therapy for this currently (I’m guessing that’s probably going to be the top rec you get here and I’ll co-sign it!) and have come to the unhappy realization that you can’t fix insecurity just by reading about it. I have always been someone who thinks that I can find the answer to any problem in a book, but unfortunately therapy has taught me that building confidence really requires action. Two things that I’m working on:

      1. Building trust in myself. I realized that a lot of my lack of self confidence stems from a lack of self trust, because I tell myself I’ll do things…and then just don’t. If you always tell yourself “I’m going to workout tomorrow! I’m going to get up at 6am and meditate! I’m going to do xyz thing!” And then never follow through, you lose self trust. Would you have confidence in a friend who never did what they said they were going to do? I am still working on this, but it is making a difference. A big part of it is setting easier goals so that I can accumulate small wins instead of jumping to “I’m going to run 5 miles tomorrow!” When I haven’t worked out in 3 months.

      2. Working with my therapist to establish a “fear ladder” – this involves identifying the activities that scare me, rating them, and then directly facing those fears starting at the very bottom (the lowest difficulty level) until that activity feels more comfortable. This requires pushing through varying levels of discomfort. I hate it, but I’m starting to notice a real difference in my social anxiety because I’m proving to myself that I CAN handle these different situations. I think you could probably find more info on this by googling “fear ladder exercise.”

  19. Romance novels

    Tell me your best romance novels – I need to read something light and saucy. Bonus if the female character is strong.
    I’ve liked Karina Halle’s books in the past, which is on the more explicit side of the sauciness scale, I think – any tipps for something similar?

      • anon

        Jasmine Guillory is the opposite of saucy!! I haven’t read Karina Halle, but for steamy romance with strong female characters, I recommend Tessa Bailey’s It Happened One Summer and Hook Line and Sinker, and two series from Alisha Rai: Hate to Want You, and The Right Swipe. Happy reading!

    • anon

      I’ve been loving Tessa Dare’s Girl Meets Duke series recently. The dialogue is great–very snappy and fun. And I like that all the female characters have a strong sense of self. You might also like Rosie Danan’s two books.

    • Anon

      Romance books were my COVID JAM.

      Susannah Nix: Chemistry Lesson series, about a group of loosely-related women all of whom are in STEM. All of them are different tropes. My personal favorite was the small town romance (Elementary Romantic Calculus) and the enemies to lovers (Applied Electromagnetism). I usually hate enemies to lovers books, so that’s saying a lot!

      Christina Lauren’s books. I really liked My Favorite Half Night Stand, but I also liked Soulmate Equation and Love and Other Words. The Beautiful Ba&&ards series is…not great. I thought In a Holidaze was weird AF.

      Helen Hoang’s first book, The Kiss Quotient is light. The second and third are romance but not quite as light.

      Crazy Rich Asians if you haven’t read it! And Sex and Vanity, also by Kevin Kwang.

      Agree with the Jasmine Guillory recommendation, all of her leading women characters are really strong and succesful.

      I like Alisha Rai’s books as well. And Abby Jimenez! And The Royal We!

  20. Anonymous

    Can someone justify the President’s decision to extend the moratorium on student loan payments? The job market is spectacular, kids are back in school so people don’t have the excuse that they don’t have childcare. Is this just pandering to people who want him to just forgive the debt people took on while he waits for support for that proposal to grow?

    • Anon

      Yes, he is aware that his most solid voting block is white collar professionals, and student loan relief is increasingly popular with that demographic.

      • No Face

        Student loan debt also has a disproportionate burden on Black women, another major voting block for Biden.

      • Anon

        re white-collar professionals — this is not a needy group! I don’t see how they get a program for them when many are doing better right now and poor people who don’t have loans b/c they never went to college get . . . nada

    • Anonymous

      Why bother? I’m not bored enough to randomly fight with a salty person on the internet.

    • No Face

      I don’t why it keeps getting extended, but I will tell you childcare is NOT at pre-pandemic levels. A whole week where I actually have childcare for both kids is rare.

      • Walnut

        +100,000,000

        More quarantine letters went out in elementary school again this week!

      • Anonymous

        Sing it. I’ve paid thousands of dollars for a daycare my kid couldn’t attend due to covid protocols. Yep- kids always got sick but closing down entire programs for weeks at time because of a case is a nightmare even when your kid is healthy.

        Also I think it’s bonkers to think that school is sufficient as childcare for a working professional. If there is a spectacular amount of jobs where I can support a family, repay loans and work 830-3pm with school holidays and the summer off I’m totally in! The jobs available in my areas that look like this are : public school teacher, school administrators and other professionals who work in public schools and these jobs are crazy competitive.

    • Anon

      I got 99 problems and that ain’t one. Even if I don’t benefit, I don’t begrudge someone else getting a small break.

      • Seventh Sister

        Me either. Especially when a lot of people who have burdensome student debt went to a for-profit college and/or didn’t complete their degree.

      • Senior Attorney

        Same. And the break will go to people who will put that money back in the economy instead of hoarding it!

      • Anonymous

        I am paying my massive loans and I guess subsidizing this break for others while drowning in debt accrued during the pandemic so it feels like a problem to me.

        • Anon

          You make your choices, other make theirs. I worked 2 jobs and didn’t sleep for 4 years to avoid loans because I saw what they did to friends and I couldn’t feel confident I’d ever land a job that made enough to pay them back. That choice had repercussions just as much as being in debt did.
          Similarly, I don’t begrudge today’s veterans who get in-state tuition and massively better educational benefits than I did. Good for them. Just because something sucked for me doesn’t mean I want everyone else to suffer in the same way. Sometimes the progress happens too late to be personally useful, but it’s still progress.

          • Anonymous

            But this doesn’t feel like progress. It feels like delaying the inevitable at the expense of others. I’d be fine with lowering interest rates across the board or something. I’d be envious but that is okay. It seems like I have missed out on nearly every single financial assistance program/tax break/subsidy, by a day or a dollar or whatever, for my entire adult life, for one reason or another, and it feels bad, but mostly i support programs that help people who need help. In this case, I’d really prefer this be targeted or actual progress and I don’t see it as either.

          • Anon

            Is it an elegant approach? Nope, it sure isn’t. If getting relief to the folks who really, really, need it (those who got ripped off by for-profits and others in way over their head) means others who don’t need it as badly also are included, so be it.

    • Seventh Sister

      I think it’s popular with the leftward end of his base and there isn’t an enormously motivated opposition to it among his supporters. While I’m not a “cancel all student debt” person, the government spends money on dumb stuff all the time. Younger people without student loan payments could buy houses, fix up the ones they have, buy more stuff, etc.

    • Anon

      IDK but I’m worried that the whole student loan system is becoming too divorced from economic reality and eventually it will have to go away b/c it’s just spiraled into nonsense. Like maybe give more Pell grants to poor people or at least means-test stuff like this? But “loan” is becoming illusory and at some point I worry it will implode (and some of us needed loans, but understood them to be loans, just like car loans or the obligation to pay rent monthly). I feel bad for the next would-be generation of would-be borrowers.

      • Anon

        My son is in the “next generation of would-be borrowers,” will be graduating from high school in two years. He and his classmates have already had it drilled into their heads that student debt is evil and toxic and will ruin their lives via their mandatory financial literacy class, and so they will either go to state schools they can afford, or they will go to trade school or community college (which in our state is basically free), or they won’t go to college. The people who should be running scared are the folks working at small private non-elite liberal arts colleges, because their ability to convince kids to take out $100k in loans to get a degree that isn’t much better than what someone can get from a state school, and doesn’t carry with it the Ivy League pedigree or alumni connections, is going to get extremely difficult in the next few years. These kids have been on the Internet practically since birth and are very used to people trying to sell them things, and are extraordinarily skeptical of people pushing them to take out debt to do something. Loans may not end up being a thing because a lot of kids just aren’t going to take them out any more.

        • Seventh Sister

          My kids are going to be going to college in the next few years, and I don’t think it’s worth it to spend 350K for a just-OK private college when they could go to in-state for a lot less. If they get into an elite place, I’d probably think differently, but admissions is such a crapshoot even for strong student. I’m not sure that even very highly-ranked undergrad places are “worth it.”

    • Anon

      I don’t know, but it means a lot to a lot of people in my life. We graduated into the recession, and at this point, if our careers (or marriages) were going to allow us to pay back loans, we’ve already done so. My friends who have not paid back their loans now owe so much more now than what they originally borrowed (from interest accumulating while they were working low wage jobs and when paying for medical expenses without good healthcare) that there’s no realistic scenario in which they’ll ever pay it back, even in better jobs now.

      • Anonymous

        Same, with the addition that me and lots of my friends are ethnic/racial minorities so that’s another handicap we’ve had to deal with in terms of earning a livable wage in the first place or moving up the career ladder.

        That being said, I have *feelings* about how my generation was sold lies about going to dream colleges and getting a degree in your *passion* and “don’t worry about student loans because it’ll all just work out in a hand-wavey fashion” and instead what we got in reality was increasing college tuitions but minimum wage stayed the same, graduating right into a recession, years of being underemployed and underpaid, and now another recession and rising inflation rates.

        • Anon

          OMG everything in your second paragraph times a million. Immigrant kid here, was definitely sold a bill of goods by school administrators etc and didn’t have parents who could tell me otherwise — especially when I was discouraged from applying to state schools and ended up with “need based aid” at an expensive school which consisted mostly of loans.

        • Anon

          +10000 to your second paragraph. I remember my parents saying (with the best intentions, though they had no idea what they were talking about) “everyone has student loans, it’s not a big deal!” I was lucky enough to stumble into a relatively high-paying career with a BA in Sociology and pay off my loans, but my unlucky friends who are pharmacists, physical therapists and even doctors are absolutely drowning under their loans and we’re 10+ years out from undergrad.

    • Anon

      I don’t understand the justification for this either. I made sacrifices to limit my law school debt and it’s frustrating that people who didn’t are getting these breaks from repayment. I have married couple friends who have saved almost $100k on debt payments over the last two years. They can now afford down payments for houses and I can’t. It’s frustrating. For grad school debt, people should have understood the decisions they were making. I’m unusually grumpy today and this news is just making it worse.

      • Anon

        What makes you assume that they didn’t try to limit their debt? One of my best friends enrolled in a state school that gave in-state rates to residents of her state who lived just across the border. After her first year, they changed the rules and she was stuck paying OOS rates. My understanding is that she wasn’t able to transfer or get in-state tuition (owned a tiny condo in her state, which would have had to be sold and another purchased in the other state), so she was stuck paying OOS rates for two years. Did she try to limit her debt? Absolutely. Did she still get hosed? Yep.

        I know other people who went to schools that were relatively affordable when they started, but tuition got jacked up to the stratosphere in the short time they were there. I know people who worked almost full-time 3L year and still had higher loans than anticipated. Things happened like 3L year was $20,000 more than 1L year had been.

      • Anon

        It definitely is a very grumpy take to begrudge people good fortune, even if it’s good fortune you yourself did not receive. No one predicted the pandemic or that suspending student loan payments would be a part of the pandemic response. Your friends doing well takes nothing from you or your accomplishments. I hope your day gets better.

        • Anonymous

          this is t a simple begrudging of people’s good fortune. Someone is paying for this

      • anon

        putting money that they saved from loans into the economy seems like a good outcome

        • anon

          Yes, because we if there’s one thing the economy needs right now, it’s more money pumped into it. How high do you like your inflation?

          OP – it may help to realize that loans hold just about everyone back. You may not hear about the vacation they didn’t take or the house they didn’t buy or the marriage proposal that didn’t come, but sacrifices were made. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at your alma mater.

    • Anon

      Sure, I can: it’s an solution to a problem 15 years in the making. A lot of people who graduated into the 2008 recession and the 20-teens are in more debt than they can get out of, and the interest payments exceed the rate at which they are able to pay it down. The far more sensible solution would have been to give everyone inflation + 1% interest every year (adjust to your liking); however, people who had ten years of 8% interest payments are thrilled to have two years of 0%. It is balancing itself back out – hamhandedly, but nonetheless, relief for people who have needed it even before the pandemic.

    • Anon

      I hope he cancels student loan debt, just to see how angry people like you get. It would be incredibly satisfying.

Want to win a $250 gift card??? Take the Corporette survey! More details here.

Back to Top

About

Work with Corporette®

Serious Stuff

work fashion blog press mentions