ByKat Hours Updated
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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: V-Neck Retro Pencil Dress

Cap-Sleeve Work Dress: Miusol V-Neck Retro Pencil DressOur daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. I was intrigued to find this list of Amazon’s bestselling “wear to work” dresses — and while I can’t quite get behind the #1 dress (it’s just not my cup of tea), this $25 number is #2, and kind of looks so fantastic that I’ve gone ahead and ordered it. (Here’s hoping it’s not like the $20 blazer that looked great on Amazon and was so bizarre I threw it directly in the garbage — I’m not sure which I regret more, buying it, not being bothered to return it, or not blogging about it at all!) Ladies, have you found any amazing, affordable dresses on Amazon from unusual brands? This one from Miusol is $25 and comes in two colors and an unusually wide size range of S-3X. Miusol V-Neck Retro Pencil Dress Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-4)

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

279 Comments

  1. Yay Kat Fruegel Friday’s! I love Fruegel Friday’s and this $25 pencil dress! What a deal, Kat! I think I am FINALLY svelte enough to fit in this, tho my tuchus is still a little tight for size 2. I will be leaveing early today b/c it is SUMMER Friday’s at the firm! I hope other firm’s do this so that the HIVE has more time off in the summer! I have a VERY important business question for the HIVE that my boss asked me to p’ost:

    As an outside litiegation council, I have some cleint’s that just are NOT to computer saavy. As a result when I want to send them breif’s to review online, they simpley do NOT know how to do that. So I have to print them out, and then FAX them to them so that they can read them. The manageing partner does NOT like that I am doeing that so suggested that I get an APP that would create and send to all of my cleint’s that would allow them to read AND coment on my brief’s BEFORE I upload them to the courts’ website. I am NOT aware of any such APP, so the manageing partner sugested that I ask the HIVE b/c of it’s colectivve wisdom. So, does anyone in the HIVE have a LITIGEATION APP that allow’s for breif shareing and comenting by cleint’s b/f the attorney’s load their breif’s into the court’s INTERNET system? The manageing partner does NOT want to admit to the judge he is NOT internet savvy, so if anyone in the HIVE is useing such an APP, please review it here and I will come BACK and read all coment’s. The manageing partner is also interested in this so it would greateley help me if you could share any wisdom you have on this MOST valueable topic. Thank’s in advance!! YAY!!

  2. Posted this yesterday, but it was inexplicably eaten. I am looking for some Tshirt dresses for the weekend. My only requirements are that they be not too short and fairly soft. Can anyone make some recommendations? Thank you!

  3. I am looking for some tee shirt dresses for the weekend. I would like them to be fairly soft, and hopefully hit just above the knee. Any recommendations? Thank you!

    1. Try the knit swing dresses at Old Navy, available in short-sleeve and long-sleeve. I have two of the sleeveless version purchased earlier this summer, and am waiting for the short-sleeve and long-sleeve versions I ordered to arrive. They are available in regular, petite, tall, and plus sizes. I am very long-waisted and usually require tall sizes in dresses, but I found the regular to be very flattering.

    2. I just bought (and really love) two of the “softspun knit” tshirt dresses from Gap. They have a few different styles in the material. I got the 3/4 sleeve. I’m 5’2 and the regular length hits at the knee for me.

    5. Joe Fresh dresses at Superstore/Loblaw’s if you happen to be Canadian! So comfy and so cheap, perfect beach/yard wear.

    6. I love the Karen Scott Boat Neck Short Sleeve T-Shirt Dress from Macys. I can dress it up with accessories and heels for my business-very-casual office, or for casual work events where I still have to be presentable, but it’s also easy to throw on for weekend errands.

    7. I have a Lord & Taylor swing dress with pockets, and an INC navy one with sleeves, and they’ve basically been my summer uniform this year.

  4. I love this dress, especially in the purple, but I’m struggling to come up with where I’d wear it. It’s too low cut for the office but too businessy for date night. Maybe graduations? Engagement parties? Can anyone give me an excuse to buy this?

    1. It’s onley $25! That should be your reason. You can wear it out to a bar and mabye get some attention from an eligeible bachelor! That would make it’s return on investement well worth it, Dad says. He want’s me to start doeing things like that in stead of just watcheing NETFLIX in the evening’s. That is the ONLEY way I will EVER get MARRIED, he said! FOOEY, I want men to look at me but respect me for my MIND, not my body. He said that is imposible in this world. We shall see, b/c I already ordered mine! I hope I find my guy! Thank’s Kat!

    2. This might work for the wedding officiant who posted yesterday afternoon. Seriously!

      1. I’m not the OP officiant, but I’m also officiating an outdoor wedding in September and just ordered it for that purpose. I’ve been debating between three different MMLaFleur dresses in navy blue, but if this one for $25 works, that makes the decision far easier.

    3. I’m the OP from yesterday. Thanks for the recommendation – I’ll check it out!

  5. Seeking recommendations for bikini or hipster-style (not thong!) workout underwear that doesn’t create VPL under running tights and won’t ride up. I have been wearing the Moving Comfort workout bikini, which was discontinued.

    1. Just go commando. Its so much more comfortable. I’ll never wear underwear under workout bottoms again!

      1. +1 I’ve never understood the wearing of underwear beneath work-out clothes. Especially tights/yoga pants, etc.

        1. I do it because I’m usually changing in the locker room at work and I am not keen on the idea of flashing my bush at coworkers. I just yank stuff down a little lower so things don’t creep.

          1. I also don’t wear UW under yoga pants/running tights. Yes I wash them every time.

          2. No UW and yes, I wash my running shorts and tights after every workout. They are super sweaty when I am done!!

          3. Yep. Wash them every time, and every couple of months I soak all my workout gear in oxyclean.

        3. I get serious camel toe if I try to wear any kind of legging or more fitting workout pant without underwear.

          1. Me too. And many other women out there, that probably should be wearing undies!

            One option… you can put a thin feminine pad in the crotch of your workout pants. This sometimes can solve the problem.

            But I always wear underwear. Soma vanishing edge. Because my tuchus is a bit voluminous, I stay away from hipsters, which ride up a bit more for me. I wear bikinis, and size up a bit for better coverage.

            And I just don’t worry much about the lines in the gym.

          2. I would bet that the ones you are choosing are either not an ideal size, or not an ideal cut. Workout pants are generally meant to be worn without anything under, and shouldn’t ride up like that.

          3. Anon 12:57

            You obviously do not have the same anatomy as some of us.

            No way I could wear workout pants (sized appropriately) without underwear, AND a pad and I still wear long T-shirts for modesty.

      2. I tried this once. I became instantly aware of every seam in a way that was distracting at best and at times uncomfortable (plus wedgie issues). I like the buffer that UW gives me.

        I like Soma vanishing line UW in general and wear it exercising.

      3. +1, either go commando or don’t worry about VPL. The gym is the last place I’m going to worry about people judging me for what underwear I’m wearing – most of the time they can already tell you are wearing a sports bra, right? So who cares if they can tell you are also wearing underwear?

      4. Yeah this. I don’t understand the “I just can’t” comments. A lot of running shorts have built-in “underwear,” and all of my tights have a little thing of cotton-blend in the crotch area. These things are designed to be worn without underwear.

        1. Because some of us don’t want that cotton-blend crotch giving us a front wedgie.

    2. I wear the lululemon ones- they wick and stay put. no issues with lines for me.

      1. I love these. they are awesome. my only caveat is that they do not hold up well.

    3. I go commando while working out, but I wear workout undies as regular undies. I bought New Balance hipsters at TJ Maxx that I like a lot – laser cut edges are where it’s at. Under Armour also makes some.

    4. Saucony runderpants. The styles I own have stupid sayings printed on the butt, but given that no one sees them, who cares!

      1. Amy Schumer has a joke about when a guy finds your underwear “sunny side up.” I was at VS last week since I was in the market for underwear and hadn’t shopped there in at least 5 years. They had a pair of very cute cotton with lace trim. I flipped them over and the butt had “sunny side up” printed on it. The whole thing cracked me up since they clearly don’t know the Amy Schumer joke – or they do??. I totally bought them just because of how ridiculous they were.

    5. Thanks for all the recommendations! I just can’t do commando with workout pants. I am planning to try the New Balance hipsters and possibly the Soma vanishing edge. What is up with the writing on the Sauconys? That is for toddler underpants!

      1. I like uniglo’s briefs for working out – they make one in a microfiber material that’s supposed to be no VPL that might work for you.

  6. I like uniglo’s briefs for working out – they make one in a microfiber material that’s supposed to be no VPL that might work for you.

    1. She’ll have better luck talking to someone in Tampa/Orlando. I’d recommend Ron Fraley in Tampa or Jill Schwartz in Orlando.

  7. What do you guys think of Cuyana leather totes? I’m thinking of buying one for work this fall. I currently use the lo and sons brookline and would like to mix it up

    1. I LOVE MINE. So much. It’s more heavy than a nylon bag, but I don’t care. The leather is gorgeous. I have the zip top tote in the pebbled burgundy leather and it goes with everything. Zero internal organization, but it’s beautiful, and I just organize with a series of smaller bags/pouches. I got it for Christmas and I have used it every day. I am not a particularly careful person and it still looks new.

    2. I love them- mine is the zip top pebble leather and it’s a great size for work. More polished than nylon (and mine is lighter than the MZW I had before and way lighter than the OMG). I added an organizer insert someone on here recommended and now it’s my favorite bag. The insert made a huge difference for me. I also have the non-zip open top for weekends and love that too. I’m A huge fan of their stuff in general (also love their makeup bags and passport cases).

      1. What’s the insert you have? I’ve been looking at the Cuyana totes, but the lack of organization is giving me pause.

        1. I got this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017LJLI9Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

          it’s a little bit smaller than the inside of the tote, so there’s still a lot of room around it. i thought that would bug me at first, but I’ve ended up liking it as I can still cram random sized things in there (like the occasional pair of shoes or laptop) without any issues. It adds a little structure to the bag, not quite as much as I would like but keeps it from being a sack.

  8. How often do folks change their purses/handbags? I can use the same one for weeks. I will use a different one for an occasion like a party or function, but otherwise I’ll use the same one daily.

    1. My work bag gets year round use. It’s easier to stay organized if I stick to one bag. I have a few smaller bags that I rotate on weekends or for events.

    2. I use the same work tote for 5-7 years (I choose tan or cognac bags so that they look great with almost any outfit or season). I love plain Coach leather for these – relatively good price point for a classic.

      On weekends it really depends on my plans whether it’s the small cross body, long champ medium tote, fancy clutch, Etc. I spend relatively less on these bags because obviously they get way less wear.

      2. I’ve been rocking the same Kate Spade bag for 5 years. And it’s holding up. It’s black, classic, professional.

        On the weekends, especially if I’m going somewhere I can put my purse down, I have a Fossil crossbody.

    3. I like ones with internal organization, so switching is a PITA. Or I just have the basics stuffed in each of them. I have a little pouch and a clutch/wallet thing, but it’s not all that simple. I switch mainly for work / weekend and it’s a pain to have yet another task for Monday morning. Some days it’s weekend 7 days a week, purse-wise.

    4. Same. I use the same one for a few weeks/months. It’s usually my outfit that inspires me to change, i.e., I’ve been carrying a black handbag and then one day I decide to wear all brown and navy so I switch to a cognac handbag. But then I’m lazy and keeping using the cognac handbag for a while until I put on a outfit that clashes enough that I feel like I should change it.

    5. I use the same one for months with very minimal switch-ups. I’ll change for an event, or switch to a crossbody if I’m going to be doing a lot of walking around where I don’t want to have a purse in my hands, but otherwise it’s the same. I don’t worry about how it looks with outfits – I figure I’m holding my purse maybe 5-10% of the day, tops.

    6. One winter, one summer, one winter “evening”, one summer “evening” one fancy going to court tote.

    7. I have four hanging by my front door: chocolate brown, black, silver, and bright Irish green. I change from one to the other almost daily based on outfit.

    8. I have a black leather Kate Spade that is…4 or 5 years old that I have used for work almost very single day in that time period. It’s large, fits everything I need. For weekends, I switch out to small crossbody bags or clutches, and change those with my outfits.

    10. I buy work totes in the $200-$300 range and beat the heck out of them for a minimum of two years. My current Kate Spade tote is going on three years with only tiny signs of wear on the straps. I lose enough things as it is, if I switched purses, I’d NEVER find anything.

    11. I have just one work bag. So I carry that to work every day. I have three non-work bags. I used one for fall/winter (saddle brown), one during spring/summer (cream/ivory) and one (cross body black) if I want to look very casual.

    12. Almost every time I switch purses, I forget or lose something, so I’ve mostly stopped doing it.

      Related question for people who switch daily based on outfit: I’ve always been curious about this, because as soon as I get where I’m going, my purse gets parked away somewhere; I’m not constantly carrying it around, so how do you consider it part of your outfit? ( not trying to be critical just curious what the thinking is behind this) That said I do pick neutral colors to avoid clashing.

      1. I carry it a lot — outside to/from office, to lunch, to court, to depositions, etc. sure, it sits in my office during the day, but every time I leave its with me.

        my “regular” bags are plain LVs, so they go with a lot, but I switch colors summer vs winter and I have a handful of other bags for each season that ill pull out when it goes with an outfit.

    13. I buy one nice purse in a classic style that I carry for years, on a daily basis (except for fancy events like weddings when I switch to a clutch). I’m currently in year 9 of my current purse.

    15. I’m a (designer) bag person. I probably have two dozen in my collection right now, though some of them aren’t used very often. My work bag is the same every day though.

    16. I usually switch to a weekend bag on Saturday and a work bag on Monday. I intend to change the bag during the week to go with my outfit but always get distracted.

    17. I have a nice black Coach for fall/winter and a bright pink Coach for spring/summer. I have a few cross body bags for travel or shopping, but two nice-ish quality bags works for me!

  9. I recently worked an event with a “vintage cocktail” dress code. I didn’t have time to scour resale shops, so I dove headfirst into the land of Cheap Amazon Dresses. Here’s what I learned:

    1. If you don’t have it already, get Amazon Prime
    2. Check the sizing chart – always
    3. People who post photos of the dresses are the best kind of people
    4. Buy a lot and plan to return a lot
    5. Earn yourself some good karma by writing a review

    I wound up finding a decent dress from Anni Coco – but I’m not sure if I’m going to wear it again. For $20, I’m okay with that.

    1. Now that I have a baby and the thought of going clothes shopping is a nightmare, my go-to for clothes has been to buy several items off Amazon Prime and return what doesn’t work. I have been able to score an amazing swimsuit and an outfit for our family photos that way, and I only ordered three options each time.

      1. +1. With 2 little kids, my days of heading to the mall are non-existent. I’ve been able to buy several dresses for work off Amazon Primer and some shoes. And the pricing is often better than dept store sales.

  10. I’m looking for a travel bag like the Lo & Sons OMG. I really like everything about it except I think it’s not all that pretty. I’d prefer something with a more square/rectangular shape. Any suggestions?

    1. I ended up buying and keeping the OG (it’s a very similar shape to my old favorite) but I bought and returned a Baggallini Weekender first. The quality seemed nice. I’d check that brand out.

  11. I was looking at this dress the other day, but didn’t like the way the stitching looks at the V-neck.
    I bought several Vfemage dresses from Amazon and they are amazing! free returns and you cant beat the price. watch out for their sizing, you need to order up – I am a size 10-12 but had to buy size 16 from them.
    Hope this helps….

    here is the link to one of the dresses I own.

    https://www.amazon.com/VfEmage-Printed-Patterned-Slimming-Stretch/dp/B018Y3LQSO/ref=pd_sim_193_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=ZF66E5HB5BZ6E8V9D8D8

    Ildiko

  12. So I was amazed yesterday at the number of commenters here willing to give the benefit of doubt to Ryan Lochte and blaming the Brazilian police….despite CCTV footage to the contrary. Today USOC has eaten humble pie and apologised.

    This kind of defensive behaviour….I don’t know whether to call it white privilege or whether it’s just a “America is right, the rest of the world sucks” attitude. But this is why Americans are usually disliked abroad or the butt of jokes for insular behaviour. For such a great country, attitudes suck.

    2. I stand by my statement that its not a good thing to publicly parse victim statements like NBC did. If the facts don’t match the statement, investigate it. That’s not my problem. Parsing individual phrases to pick apart small inconsistencies can make real victims less likely to come forward.

      1. Yes. In my extensive experience working with trauma victims, I have seen a lot of attacks on victims for not using the “right” words, not acting the “right” way, having different memories and having noticed different details than their fellow victims, etc. The early attacks on the robbery story struck all those same chords. Waiting for more details, particularly when people have been arrested in a country known for police corruption, is not white privilege or jingoism.

    3. There are 250+ million of us. Some of whom are proving what several politicians know all too well: it’s not the initial act but the coverup that does you in.

      My news reading skews towards finance, but I’m betting that we get better warts-and-all coverage b/c we have a very free press that isn’t afraid to chase stories for ratings. If this were to happen in N. Korea, we’d never know (but might come to realize that you don’t see a bunch of people anymore b/c they have disappeared).

    4. I think that part of it is that in the US, especially recently, there has been a lot of victim-blaming in rape cases, and one big component of that is judging the victim’s attitude and appearance right after the incident and trying to make a determination about whether the victim acted the “right” way. Many people (rightfully, in my opinion) find this kind of judgment of the victim abhorrent. This wasn’t an alleged rape, but one of the initial pieces of evidence that the robbery was made up was that the guys were smiling and laughing on CCTV footage shortly after it supposedly took place. I think some people had a visceral reaction to the media’s parsing of that footage because it reminded them of the kind of scrutiny rape victims go through. I didn’t see anyone defending them after the CCTV footage of them at the gas station came out. It was all before that, when the Brazilian police’s argument seemed to be based on very circumstantial and subjective things like the victims behavior right afterwards.

      And ONE person criticized Gabby Douglas and people jumped all over her. It’s not like everyone here is attacking Douglas while rallying behind Lochte.

      1. This.

        I had a very strong WTF reaction to the initial story I read, which included a quote from a Brazilian judge that the story didn’t add up because they were smiling too much on CCTV footage while going through security to get back into the Olympic village area. There is no one right way for victims of any crime to react, and refusing to believe someone was mugged because he had a sense of humor about it is unacceptable to me.

        It transpires there was plenty of other reason to not believe Lochte’s story, but I stand by my initial reaction based on the initial information.

        2. +1

          it also came out this morning that the stories were not as made up as we were led to believe yesterday — there actually was an armed guy who came out pointing a gun at them and shouting.

          1. Because they trashed the place and tried to leave. It’s not like they were sitting in the cab and he randomly walked up to them and pointed a gun. Four huge drunk guys trashed the place and felt entitled to walk away.

          2. Anon @12:44 but that entitles the store owner to pull a gun? I definitely think the swimmers behavior was inexcusable (especially as high-profile ambassadors of their country, but even if they’d just been regular tourists), but I’m not sure why you aren’t concerned about the fact that the gas station attendants threatened them with a gun. It escalated the situation and I can understand why the swimmers were pretty shaken up afterwards. That isn’t “ugly Americans” turning a blind eye to bad behavior, it’s recognizing that there can be situations where everybody deserves some blame. I think the swimmers absolutely should have behaved better, but I also find it troubling that the Brazilian police are ok with people using guns and threats to extract money from someone who has merely damaged property.

          3. @Anon1:31

            Did you watch the video? These swimmers are huge guys who were drunk and violent. One of them basically charges at one of the guards/attendants as one point.

            The swimmers were totally out of line and should not have been shocked that the attendants/guards defended themselves and their property.

            It’s 100% ‘ugly Americans’. There’s a reason Americans have developed an international reputation for boorish behavior and incidents like this are exactly why.

    5. It’s not white privilege or American exceptionalism to err on the side of believing the victim.

      1. This. I think it’s always a good idea to check privilege, but I don’t see that here. Everyone initially reacted to a popular American athlete telling a story that is actually pretty common in Rio, not actually pressing charges or filing a police report, and only having the story escalate because of media coverage. Then the Brazilian authorities arrested two witnesses, seized their passports, and physically removed them from their plane. I think it’s an egregious overreaction. I’m still of the mind that something significant was lost in translation, or the security guards attempted to extort the swimmers with guns pointed at their backs. But, maybe that’s just me.

        I don’t see this related to Gabby Douglas at all.

        1. Why on earth would you think something was lost in translation? They caused a bunch of damage while drunk and were told they couldn’t leave until they paid for it – completely reasonable.

          Swimmers only felt ‘robbed’ because they were held accountable for their actions instead of getting off based on their ‘celebrity’ status.

          1. Brazilian police have admitted that the gas station security guards pointed a gun at them to get them to pay for the damage. I wouldn’t call that a robbery, because they did cause a lot of damage and should have to pay for it, but it’s also not something that would be ok in the US. So yeah, I think there are culture differences at play here.

          2. What if these are the facts: the bathrooms already had some damage when the swimmers went in. They were drunk and rowdy, and created a mess, but were not actively vandalizing the bathroom. They got into their cab and then were told to get out by security guards with guns pointed at them. They were told to fork over all the cash they had in their wallets or the gas station would do . . . something. All of this being translated – maybe – from some random bystander.

          3. They drunkenly broke a bathroom door and cracked a mirror, and for that they had a gun drawn on them by a man demanding payment. I’d be terrified and confused if that happened to me. I would probably call my mom and say something along the lines of, I just got robbed.

          4. The fact that they felt drunkenly entitled to trash the place and threaten the security guards and then whine because the security guards made them pay and stood up to their drunken antics and the fact that people here are defending these jerks = exactly why the stereotype of the ugly american exists.

          5. Sorry, but the rest of the world is watching and I can tell you this incident conforms to our “disrespectful Americans in foreign country” narrative. We see it all too often. I’m a Canadian.

          6. And to those of you questioning the way Brazil is handling this, just remember that the authorities wouldn’t even be involved if your American swimmers had any sense of decency or common sense about how to conduct themselves in a foreign country. Why is respect so hard? It shouldn’t be if you’re literally an ambassador and know you’re being watched.

          7. I have to say, I’m shocked that there’s so much sympathy for Lochte here. I find myself reacting pretty harshly to him. WaPo had a piece this morning that captured my feelings pretty well.

            I also think the context to this is pretty important. Think about it from Brazil’s viewpoint.

            I found it outrageous that there was some statement from someone with the Olympics about these guys having been under tremendous pressure with the game, and kind of “boys will be boys.” That made me cringe.

            I suppose that I think we’re sometimes too eager to make excuses for celebrities. This incident reminds me of Johnny Depp — how many people seem to refuse to believe the allegations of domestic violence.

            All that said, it’s interesting to get people’s reactions! (I certainly don’t claim to have the answers to everything, so I appreciate reading what others’ reactions are.)

          8. @Annie:

            Ugh, I don’t remember reading the “boys will be boys” comment but that’s effed up. Found that article — thanks for the rec.

            Lying about having a crime committed against you is gross. It gives people who are inclined to scrutinize victims ammunition they really don’t need. And it makes people like me defend you and then feel gross about having done so. But it still seems to me that the Brazilian authorities reacted based on face-saving (and the $11,000 buy-off just seems to confirm that) rather than any desire to prosecute justice and I have a pretty big problem with that too.

        2. +1 for this being common in Rio, and that being part of why people were so quick to believe. I personally know four people who have been there and three of them were robbed. Whatever you think of Ryan Lochte, it’s an incredibly plausible story.

      2. Maybe it is though- I mean, it’s not uniquely American, but I think it’s distinctly American to believe that people are “innocent until proven guilty.”

        1. Recall that “innocent until proven guilty” applies to criminal defendants.

          That doesn’t apply to victims. I think we should generally believe people who report being victims of crimes. But the “innocent until proven guilty” is not about victims. Applying our American presumption of innocence here, it would mean that the alleged “robbers” weren’t guilty. Although since it’s not really clear whether or not Lochte and Co. had meant to accuse the gas station personnel or whether they meant to accuse fictional people, I’m not sure who – if anyone -would benefit from our presumption, if this had been a matter for American courts.

    6. I also think it’s not white privilege to find the Brazilian judicial system’s response extremely troubling.

      Someone else here may know differently and correct me, but can you seize someone’s passport and prevent them leaving the US for minor vandalism?

      http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-rio-summer-olympics/jimmy-feigen-u-s-swimmer-lochte-scandal-pays-leave-rio-n634201

      Making him pay $11,000 to get it back smacks of bribery to me. It’s also in no way related to the actual damage he caused, either in amount or in the sense of making restitution to the owner of the property that was damaged.

        1. Really? I did not know that.

          I’m having trouble finding information on reasons you could be prevented from leaving the US. Everything I’m googling is turning up why you could be deported. Any resources? I’m now extremely curious.

          2. I have no idea how Brazilian criminal procedure works, but where I practice (in the US), criminal defendant and sometimes witnesses (like if a material witness warrant has been issued) are routinely put under conditions of release that include not leaving the county, much less the country.

          3. Oh look, making judgments about another culture based on your own ignorant privileged bubble. Not proving the OP’s point at all

          4. Right, understood, but can you seize the passports in advance of charging them with any crime, as was done here? That’s the part that seemed crazy to me.

          5. I read the judge issued some kind of “search and seizure warrant.” I don’t know what the equivalent would be in the US (we obviously have warrants called the same thing, but seem to function differently.) Maybe Brazil has some kind of investigative warrant or something. I don’t know. I saw the judge’s decision online, but I couldn’t understand it well enough and the translations didn’t help to interpret it from a legal prospective.

      2. I remember learning during bar prep that there are ways to have a passport seized in civil matters as well, like if someone is going to remove the property at issue from the jurisdiction.

        1. Now that you mention it I think I remember that as well … but again don’t see anything like that at issue here.

          @Anon 11:51: Don’t really appreciate your tone — I invited someone to correct me if I was wrong, and people have supplied me with information I didn’t know. But, I still don’t think anyone has told me that you can be prevented from leaving the US without being charged with a crime (which none of these three were) or in civil matters as Annie pointed out just above here. I still find it disturbing that Brazilian authorities can do that, and I still think the $11,000 to get your passport back sounds like a freaking bribe. I’m happy for someone to explain that part to me too. At this point, judgment unaltered, though new information is as always appreciated.

          These 4 swimmers behaved abominably; doesn’t mean the the Brazilian system is golden (or that the US system is! the fact that we have problems too doesn’t absolve other countries) or that NBC’s coverage of this situation hasn’t also be absolute crap.

          1. Did you read anything about this case before commenting?

            The $11 000 to a school for underprivileged kids is legally permitted under a provision that allows first time offenders in misdemeanor cases to make a charitable donation and give an apology instead of facing prosecution. Obviously the swimmers were eligible for that and decided it would be the quickest and most face saving way to wrap up the whole thing vs wait to be formally charged with making a false report/property damage. If they were Brazilian the exact same provision would have been available to them. The money doesn’t go to the judge or the police involved.

          2. http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-rio-summer-olympics/jimmy-feigen-u-s-swimmer-lochte-scandal-pays-leave-rio-n634201

            Thanks for the info — this is the article I read, which did not cite the law you’re describing, or even describe it as a plea deal under any existing law. I couldn’t see the relationship between donating to a charity and getting your passport back and the amount of money seemed huge to me for what’s been described as minor property damage. I now realize, which I didn’t notice this morning when it popped up on my google news feed and I clicked it, that it’s from NBC. Given how dissatisfied I’ve been with their coverage elsewhere, probably should’ve looked at other sources for better details.

    7. Was Loch-tee and the other swimmers linked to the changing pool color that grossed out the divers? What was the official reason given for same?

    8. Also – men in uniform pulled guns on them and demanded their money. In the US, security guards for a gas station can’t point guns at you and demand your money. It’s understandable to me that this was a miscommunication between the sides.

      There’s no miscommunication about Gabby Douglas. She is awesome and people suck.

    9. The more I read this post, the more it irritates me. You can certainly call out the US for a number of things, but for people rallying behind their athletes during the Olympics and questioning the veracity of Brazilian police and judges? I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that Brazil was the paragon of truth and decency in the world.

      2. I think there is merit to the presuming innocence argument. But your last sentence is kind of mean and not necessary in this context.

  13. Chicago folks, can anyone recommend a therapist? I concluded yesterday, after spending far too much time crying (and snapping at DH for no real reason) that I need to start seeing a therapist… but I haven’t the foggiest idea how to go about finding someone. There are so many to choose from. I’d like to find someone easily accessible from the loop trains (preferably green/pink)

    Thanks in advance–

    1. And just to add to this – I’ve spent months just generally feeling sad, and low. Yesterday was just the last straw. I’m really, really tired of feeling sad all the time.

      1. I’ve used Psychology Today’s therapist listing — therapists can create their own profiles on the site, but it’s a good way to get a feel for a certain therapist. Plus, if your insurance covers mental health visits, you can cross-reference who takes your insurance with the list.

    3. I don’t have a recommendation, unfortunately (the person I know is only car-accessible, in the suburbs) but I just want to say, good for you for seeking out help! Rooting for you!

      1. Seconded! It took me a long time to go to therapy and now I’m one of those people who basically recommends it to everyone, all the time!

        Also, my first session was OK and then my next few were really rough. Basically crying the whole time and feeling very out of sorts. I was also sort of hyper-sensitive during that time – I opened a floodgate of emotions that I’d been holding back for a long time. I started to feel worse during that time – like “Oh, I’m so messed up and it’s going to be a long, hard road and never going to get better.”

        And then… I came out the other side and felt so. much. better! I think I wound up seeing that therapist for about 20 weeks total – less than six months – and yet I found it life-changing; it has helped me ever since!

        So, kudos to you for taking this step and best of luck!!

    4. Dr. Wendy Wasson is wonderful. Not sure if she’s taking new patients, but it’s worth a call.

    5. My old dean of students recommended Elizabeth Kieff. She spoke at my law school orientation and seemed funny and approachable. (I didn’t end up seeing her, so can’t recommend personally.)

  14. Some of you may remember me posting a few months ago about recs for a relaxing long weekend in Charlottesville. I posted an update after my trip, but suffice it to say I’m a convert and my travel companion and I are headed back for Thanksgiving! So, my question is, how early should I book a reservation for Thanksgiving dinner…and where should I go? Bonus points if there are options besides the traditional Thanksgiving fare and it’s not too fancy ($25 or under for an entree would be great, or the equivalent markup for prix fixe.)
    I know it’s probably early for this, but we’re very excited…and it’s a slow Friday morning. ;) (Any other seasonal C’ville recs would also definitely be welcome!)

    1. I have no Thanksgiving in C’ville recommendations, but as a Wahoo, I am so, so glad you love it. Late November is past the ideal season for this, but you might want to try going to Carter Mountain for apple cider doughnuts.

      2. Def get the apple cider donuts! They are a mandatory element on any fall stop to Cville.

        Also make sure you get to the 151 trail (google it) out in Nelson, since there should be plenty of mountain vistas with the last of the fall colors. If that’s too far the Western Albemarle corridor of alcohol (Pippin Hill/King Family/Blue Mountain) will work in a pinch.

        No restaurant recs, sorry, since I’ve never had to find one on Thanksgiving! But if you’re totally striking out post again next week and I can do some digging.

    2. It’s probably out of budget, but I would seriously look at the Clifton Inn. I got married there largely because the hotel itself is beautiful (thereby limiting the amount needed to decorate) and the food was amazing.

      For Thanksgiving, I would probably call and ask them if they had started planning and/or what the price range or prix fixe menu would be, based on past Thanksgiving.

  15. Recent discussions about staying at home sick made me wonder…are you really supposed to stay home with just a cold? My philosophy has always been that if I’m running a fever, vomiting or otherwise need to go to the doctor, I take a sick day, but if it’s just a cold I go to work, and now I wonder if people think I’m a terrible person for bringing my illness to work. I guess I can see if you’re in a job that’s work-from-home friendly just working from home when you have a cold, but I have a job where we don’t have remote access to our work and if I stayed home I would need to use a sick day (we have plenty of sick leave, so that’s not a concern, but it seems wimpy to actually call in sick as opposed to just WFH when I’m basically feeling ok). fwiw, I do wash my hands frequently and avoid shaking hands or standing right near people when I’m sick, and I have my own office.

    1. My company does not have sick days and has a crappy vacation policy, so I go to work sick. If I had sick days available, I would stay home when I was sick, including if I had a bad cold.

      1. Dido. Unless I am physically not able to make it in (vomiting, fever) I go. When you have a ten day pot for vacation, illness, bereavement, appointments, sick kiddos, you really have no choice. I feel bad about it, keep to myself, use liberal amounts of lysol and hand sanitizer, but I really can’t afford to use a PTO day when I can power through.

    2. Yes, please stay home if you have plenty of leave to do so. Colds are contagious and miserable to catch. I get really mad when people come to work with them, it seems so selfish and no one is that important.

      2. +2…but only if you really have plenty of leave. I have what seems like a very generous sick leave policy but I don’t have 12 weeks of paid maternity leave and can use sick leave to pay myself on mat leave. I hope to have a baby in the next year or two, so you better believe that for now I am coming to the office unless I’m on death’s door. Because every day I stay home sick is a day I won’t be paid on my mat leave.

        1. +1 for this, as a fed.

          as a contractor, we had a small amount of “one pot” pto. I got back from a trip abroad and had a horrible throat/sinus thing that hung on for weeks. I had zero days left to even take. Short of being in the hospital, I was going to work.

        2. Yep, I should say I work where everyone gets a ton of sick leave that renews every year to encourage people to stay home & not come in sick, so that’s why I get really annoyed. When there’s super generous leave available, please take it & don’t make others sick.

      3. How does the restaurant industry work? If you get paid hourly, doesn’t that encourage sick people to come in?

        Or some health care ones (maybe not doctors/nurses, maybe they get leave, but aides, etc.)

        1. Yep, and that’s why NYC tried (did?) enact sick days for hourly restaurant workers.

    3. I think it depends on the cold. I’ve had colds where I get a stuffy nose and sore throat, but take some Sudafed and I can muddle through the day. I’ve had other colds where my nose was running constantly (so blowing it every 5-10 minutes…super gross to do in an office when you’re going to be touching communal things like doorknobs), or I was coughing nonstop, or I was sleeping 15 plus hours a day on top of cold symptoms. If it’s one of the latter, I stay home until I get to the point where I can take some Sudafed and muddle through.

    4. I can work from home — so I think it’s different for my company. Everyone is encouraged to stay home and WFH as much as possible when sick. I stay home if I’m sneezing frequently and definitely if I’m coughing a lot. I get really angry if someone comes in sick, especially because we are in really close quarters/sort of open office.

    5. I’ll usually take the first day of a particularly nasty cold home if I’m on the fence as to whether it is a cold, flu or some other bug. This might be know your office, but we generally tell people who look miserable to work from home the rest of the day, because the rest of us in the office don’t want whatever they have.

      1. Good policy if you have the PTO to do it. Plus, some of us have respiratory diseases like asthma that make getting a cold dangerous. An uncomfortable sniffling coughing cold that lasts a week for you could mean a trip to the hospital for me. I know work’s not the only place I can pick up the flu or a cold, but it’s where i’m most likely to be next to a sick personal all day or share a coffee machine or bathroom.

      2. I do this because I figure staying home on day one allows my body to fight the cold and hopefully reduce its duration.

    6. Obviously not. I’d be out “sick” for 30 days a winter if I never came in with a cold.

      1. +1. I have young kids in daycare/preschool, and so I have basically been sick non-stop from November to March every year since my first was born. Obviously I can’t stay home for 5 months out of the year. I come in, I close my office door, I use the hand sanitizer on my desk before I use shared office equipment, and I try to communicate with coworkers by email or phone.

    7. My rule of thumb is if I’m feeling crappy enough to not be productive, I go home. Usually a few hours extra sleep is all I need to feel back to normal again. If there is something I absolutely have to get done, I’ll take it home with me.

    8. Please work from home if you’re sick, if you don’t take a full sick day. As Nancy Raygun said above, I have a chronic illness where colds can send me to the hospital for IV antibiotics for 2-3 weeks. Or stay in your office with the door shut and wear a mask all day if you HAVE to go to work. Seriously. I don’t want to get your cold because you’re trying to “power through.” If you do go in, consider sending out an email alerting the people who work on your floor/area that you’re sick- not everyone at work knows I have this chronic illness, but I always appreciate a heads up when people are sick so I can avoid them. Don’t make your choice to go to work one day the reason I miss work for a week or more because I literally can’t get out of bed I’m so sick or am hospitalized. Please.

  16. Anyone been to Cartagena, Colombia? A friend and I are considering going over NYE. Thoughts?

    1. W had an article on that within the past 6 months. IIRC, that is the exact time you want to go. It looked very fun!

    3. Went a couple of years ago with my Colombian DH, so info a little old, and we did not have to worry about language issues, but: either stay in a big beach resort outside the city or in the historic part of the central city. We stayed in the old city at a place called Casa La Fe, which we were very happy with (this hotel was also recommended by NYT in their travel series a few years ago). Go to Cafe Del Mar on the city wall for drinks in the early evening, fabulous view. Cute shops all around. We had amazing dinners at Don Juan and La Vitrola. There are some other very nice restaurants in the old city – I don’t remember all of the names. Cafe Havana is a fun place to salsa (Hillary has been!), but in a bad area – and at the time was all cash if I remember. During the day you can visit the castle. If you take a bus tour, know that the souvenir shops they take you to are not the best (especially find somewhere else to buy an emerald if so inclined).

      NYE is something of a family holiday in Colombia, not so much a party holiday like in the US. However, there are many excellent traditions like yellow underwear, burning the old year, fireworks etc that it is a very fun time to visit especially if you know any Colombians.

    5. Went to Cartagena for my honeymoon within the last year. You absolutely must stay at Hotel LM. Its in the old city, a tiny boutique hotel with like seven rooms or something. You basically get a personal chef.

  17. Quick rant – today is the second time my team (myself and another woman I manage) has been referred to as “the girls” by men in more senior positions. Neither of these men strike me as old school in their beliefs, but this is really making me crazy. I overheard it said to a female exec the first time and then today it was early in an email chain I was later added to. Now I’m starting to feel like we are being referred to as “the girls” all the time and I’m just not aware of it.

    I’m not being sensitive right? We are adult women. We are not girls.

    2. Yeah it’s ridiculous. Used to happen at my law firm when a senior associate — who was not well respected at all — used to talk about assignments and the like and would refer to the female junior associates as “the girls” — as in, have the girls research x. Lots of people pointed it out to him, embarrassed him about it, etc. and in the end it made no difference. He was a 32 yr old born and raised in NYC, but had very traditional views of men and women’s roles in life- – had a very traditional marriage etc; so we’re not talking a 65 yr old man from an isolated village someplace.

    3. You are not being sensitive. Grown women are not girls. This kind of garbage is infuriating to me. Are you comfortable with the folks who are doing this? If so, I think you could politely call them on it, especially if you did so in the moment.

      1. Also, I want to say that you do not have a duty to educate them, and it’s still infuriating whether you call them on it or not. I have had some luck pointing out that women are conspicuously absent from a certain type of assignment or that it’s offensive when someone says X to me. So some people are open to those conversations. Others aren’t. I’m sure you know which you’re dealing with.

    4. Nope, I would be extremely annoyed. It’s right up there with people calling me “sweetie” (which, fortunately has never happened at work).

    5. Back in the last century when I first started working, it was common for male managers to refer to the women who worked for them in admin roles as “my girl” as in “I’ll get my girl to do it.” I detested it then as I started out in that type of role, but you couldn’t say anything or people would consider you a radical feminist type. I would hope that mindset is behind us, but I fear it isn’t.

  18. How do you feel about dating a somewhat significantly older man? I’m 35. I’ve always been an old soul. I’ve had less than zero luck finding anyone decent to spend significant time with, let alone my life with. I recently met a man who seems wonderful, except he is 55. He looks 45, he runs, bikes, does yoga, eats well, etc. It’s only been a couple of weeks, but I like him a lot. We seem to have a lot in common. We’re attracted to each other. He’s successful. But he’s in such a different place in life. Divorced with grown and almost grown kids. He wants to find a partner for the rest of his life but is iffy on marrying again. I don’t want bio kids but do want to adopt a child someday. My brain is tired of always assessing long term compatibility right from the start. I’d sort of like to take a break from that and just have some fun. At the same time I am very Type A and think this is likely going to be a waste of time. Are some wastes of time worth it? My life and work is stressful and it’s nice to have someone who is a real gentleman take care of me a little bit (not with $$ but you know what I mean – in a more old fashioned kind of way where I don’t have to decipher stupid badly spelled text messages bc he actually calls me sometimes!) I don’t know what to do. Should I give myself a break and just go with the flow for a while or snap back into the reality of what I know I want in the long term (marriage)?

    1. Why not give it a try? Yes it may turn out that he is not pro-adoption and if you get in deep it could waste years where you could be finding a more suitable partner, but a few dates seems like a reasonable effort. You can see what it’s like dating him without committing.

    2. Two weeks is really no time at all, so I wouldn’t worry about wasting time yet. I wouldn’t write off dating a man just because he’s that much older. There’s much to be said for an older guy who presumably has learned a lot, knows what he wants, etc. Obvi you should discuss the kid thing sooner (although 2 weeks seems way too soon) rather than later.

    3. Give it a try especially because it sounds like he’s a ‘young’ 55.

      The biggest issue will be if having a child is non-negotiable for you and if he is not open to the idea. Take him at his word if he says no to more kids. If he’s not interested in considering the possibility now, he’s not likely going to be more interested in adding a young child to his life when he’s 60-65 and moving towards being a grandparent.

    4. If you’re already tired of the dating game, how tired of it do you expect you’ll be a year from now when you have to end it with this wonderful guy because your long-term goals aren’t compatible? If you can date him casually for a couple of months and then end it, then great, but it seems much more likely that you’ll become more emotionally involved and it’ll only become harder to move on. Then it will be even more discouraging to get back out there and try again.

    5. So I actually did talk about the adoption thing at dinner on the second date. He asked me if I wanted children and I said I’ve never wanted to be pregnant, but I have always wanted to adopt, and I’ll do that by myself if I have to but I’d rather do it with someone. So he knows that, and he knows it is non-negotiable for me. He is definitely a young 55 but it’s still 55. I don’t know. It will be hard to get out there again, but it’s always hard when something fails. Thanks for the responses so far.

      1. No, I wouldn’t.

        If you were like me…. No desire to marry, or adopt anymore, then maybe I would see him briefly for fun. A fling. Maybe.

        This is someone unlikely to meet your goals. This man will not be excited do adopt, with you, while you are working full time. Do you want to waste your time at an age where a man closer to your age is a possibility.

        Where do you see yourself in 20 years? Working full time, saving for your adopted child to get into college, and….. taking care of grandpa aged partner, driving to the doctor etc… Just… No way.

        There will also be men 20 years older than you wanting to date you.

        I am taking care of my father now, who is 75.

        No way.

    6. Monica and Richard didn’t work out for this exact reason. This will be no different than that.

    7. How did he respond when you said it was non-negotiable? I think his response could tell you a lot. For example, whether he was closed to the idea but still open to dating you short term, or whether he is more open to the possibility.

      1. But still, hypothetically speaking, even if they did end up together and adopted a kid…. this guy would be the child’s father. So unless you’re adopting a teenager, I would think it would be incredibly difficult for him to parent an infant in his late 50s, if he was interested in doing that at all, and it would be hard for the child to grow up with someone who would be elderly or even possibly dead by the time he or she went off to college.

        1. That’s your answer.

          He’s in it for the short hall. And that’s ok…. if that’s what you want.

        2. I’d be wary, then if I were you. If you really do like him, I would say go out with him a few more times and then bring it up again more seriously and explicitly ask for his thoughts.

          But that’s about what he wants. I agree with all the others here saying you need to figure out whether his age precludes _you_ from wanting to be with him or wanting to co-parent with him. All the difficulties are clear – you could end up doing a lot of the heavy lifting later on, but you could also complement each other really really well. I’d give it a few more dates.

    8. I think you are at the exact ages where this 20-year age gap is the least significant it will ever be. You are young and in the before-having-a-family phase and he is on the young side of growing older and doesn’t show any significant signs of aging. In 10 years you will be 45 and presumably raising that adopted child. He will be 65 and starting to slow down, perhaps significantly. I suspect the age difference will seem larger then. 20 years from now you will be a vital 55 and he will be 75 and that will be a pretty darned big gap indeed.

      Lovely Fiance is 11 years older than I (57 and 68) and at our ages I wouldn’t want a bigger difference than that. Certainly at 57 I don’t want to be with somebody in his late 70s.

      I’d JSFAMO.

      1. Also it’s likely his kids will give you massive side-eye and is that something you really want to get involved in?

        2. Counter anecdata: my dad’s girlfriend is 20 years younger than he is and none of us give her side-eye. She makes him happy, what do I care how old she is? He’s in his early 60’s, she’s in her early 40’s, and I’m in my early 30’s.

          Other people my age might feel differently in the same situation though.

        3. Second counter-anectdata: my father is 58 and his wife is 40, they have been together since she was late 20s. Nobody gives them side-eye, because it’s clear they really are suited to each other (much more than my parents ever were). They have a 2 year old kid together – people do give HIM a bit of side-eye for that.

        4. +1 to the side-eye. My dad’s wife is closer enough in age to my sister and I than she is to my dad and even though she’s perfectly nice and I’ve known her for a few years now, it’s still weird for everyone, including her.

        5. re side-eye: It depends how old his kids are. OP says “grown and almost grown.” If they’re in high school or college, I don’t see them side-eyeing a 35 year old woman. It’s not as if they’re her contemporaries.

    9. Oh boy. What gives me significant pause is the comment about having a real gentleman take care of you. That creeps me out. I’m in your gentleman friend’s general age bracket. I have three close friends who married men who were 17-20 years older. They seem as happy as any typical couple, but none have children, and their husbands are aging and their lifestyles now accommodate the older spouse (and one of my friends was widowed at 50). I also know men my age who exclusively date women in their 30s, and it puts me off. So this is all to say, I’d think long and hard about it.

      1. I get that, and I didn’t mean it in the way it comes off. I just meant he’s an adult, and I’m used to dating the man-child type.

        Thanks for all the responses. Much to think about.

        1. I totally understand the desire. And I have faced these relationships several times, which do have an attraction at your age. But there is usually a hint of creepiness (as these guys are too focused on dating so young), and if they survive for the long term – a difficult future of working while becoming a caregiver and widow. Let’s face it. Men don’t live as long as we do, often have more medical issues with aging, and you will be taking care of him.

          It is a lot harder to find another long term partner at 55 than 35. And when you are 55, the guys looking for you are not 55……

      2. Ugh, you’re just dating! You’re not marrying him! I understand what the other commenters are saying, but it’s only been a few weeks! Maybe I just like having fun too much these days :)

    10. Wanting children really is non-negotiable. You don’t want biological children, but you said you want to adopt in the future. If adopting a child in the future is not negotiable for you, then you are really wasting your time. Either way, I’m all for taking a break and having fun with someone for awhile!!

    11. The thing is, you could break up with this guy and still never meet someone AND find it impossible to adopt for whatever reason. I know a lot of people who set “goals” with regard to marriage and children and they are anxious and unhappy when they don’t achieve those goals the way they envisioned. What if you gave some thought to changing your approach to life where you go with what seems good and accept what comes? You might end up living a different life than you envisioned but a happy one. Some planning for long term future is prudent and some, in my observation, just makes people frustrated and sad because so many factors are not really within their power.

      1. This is really good advice as well. I have struggled with this my entire life and have never let myself just take things as they come. Maybe I should, at least for some time, while being careful with my heart.

    12. I’ll add another example. One of my best friends married a man 18 years older than her when we were 23. We are now 46, he is now 64, and retired. His health is not great but he can do some of the house chores (laundry, cooking, lawn, snow). But she has to work at least another 9 years. They do not have company pensions so will be relying on savings and then Canadian government pensions, they kick in at 65,,,, but how healthy will he be in his mid 70’s? She will be his caregiver realistically and the fun times are over. They did not have kids together, he had teens when they met, now men in their 30’s. Not real close.

      When we were 23 he seemed a good catch, steady job, house, didn’t play games but IMO the gap is too hard to bridge.

  19. Anyone know if Banana Republic takes back returns with the tags removed? My husband, who is still a novice online shopper, pulled off the tags from some dress pants but has now decided that they are too big. They are unworn, do you think he can return either via mail or in store with any chance of a refund.

    1. You can try. Might have better luck with getting an exchange for a different size vs a refund

    2. I’d say best chance is in store. It’s sales person to sales person. Do you still have the tags, at least?

    3. I’ve returned stuff both online and in store with the tags removed and had zero problems. As long as you still have the tags, you’re fine.

  20. Ladies. I’m UK based and after seeing lots of comments about BR on here I finally decided to order a couple of pairs to try. The day my order arrived they sent me an email telling me all trousers/pants are now on offer, so I thought I’d try some more. I’d like some advice on the different fits.

    I ordered Avery cropped trousers. They skim my fleshy inner thighs and sit well over my wide calves, but are a little big at the waist and the standard length is at the top of my ankle which seems a bit long (but they could be shortened easily). I also ordered a pair of Logan which fit great but which look really wide even for bootlegs (is bootleg passé these days?). How do the Ryan and Sloan compare? They look slimmer in the leg so I wonder if would look too much like leggings on me and I don’t like skin tight for work.

    I’m struggling to see how the leg lengths change with fit and different pairs of the same fit look quite different. Basically any advice on fit would be welcome.

    1. Try the short Sloans. They fit much tighter than the Ryans but looser than leggings. Definitely a fitted pant with stretch and structure.

    2. I adore my Logans; other BR cuts didn’t fit me at all — waist too big, not enough room for my hips/thighs.

      1. Unfortunately I’m at the other end of the UK. Don’t think there are any north of London.

    4. I would strongly recommend Sloan trousers. They are more figure-hugging [but not tight], accentuating curves, and they have a bit of stretch in them. I have now at least 5 pairs of Sloan trousers, 1 Avery, and 1 Logan – and Sloan are my favourite. Avery is more relaxed fit and they tend to wrinkle after 5 minutes. My Logan trousers are still waiting for tailoring [too long for me], but compared to Sloan, the leg part is wider.
      I would say that it really depends on your preferred style & fit. NB: Sloan trousers are my go-to solution when it comes to workwear ;) And remember – BR is happy to accept returns.

  21. I had the impression that Miusol and Sheinside and other Amazon prime dresses were all cheap and shipped directly from China, and that they are likely made with some questionably ethical production processes. Extrapetite did some reviews and I’ve heard other similar criticisms across the internet.

    1. That was my first thought- it’s a brand I’ve never heard of and it’s $25. It’s highly unlikely it’s coming from any kind of ethical or sustainable source.

      1. I’m not disagreeing but I think we frequently pay $100 or $200 for clothes that also don’t come from ethical or sustainable sources. I figure clothes from AT and BR all come from third world countries too, don’t they? I would happily pay more to get ethically sourced clothes. Instead my options seem to be questionable ethics and name brand and questionable ethics and no name brand – at least for professional clothes.

        1. The fact that we do it often doesnt make it ok.

          I think that’s what companies like MM LaFleur are trying to remedy!

          1. Yeah, but no one brings up the ethical sourcing when the post features a name brand.

  22. I like having smoothies or shakes for breakfast. While on vacation recently, I tried a friend’s Shakeology shakes and enjoyed them but I cannot get past the price or the fact that it’s part of a MLM company. Suggestions for alternatives?

    1. Maybe try some different brands of protein powder? Metabolic Drive is pretty tasty in chocolate.

    2. Tera’s Whey. I like the vanilla and the chocolate. Blend with fruits, leafy greens, and water (with a splash of milk and a bit of chia seeds).

      1. I do too. I use the Vega protein and greens from Target, which is a plant based protein. The vanilla tastes good on its own but would also blend into a smoothie very well, IMO.

      2. I like the Vega “protein smoothie” more than the others, but I also just mix it in a shaker with water at my desk at 3pm. If it’s in a real smoothie with veggies/fruits/nut butter, I’m way more amenable to the others.

        The product quality is of critical importance to me so I’ll stick to only Vega (Tera’s Whey or Reserveage for animal-product options). In addition to being stupidly expensive and part of an MLM, I’ve never found solid information on the manufacturing/sourcing for Shakeology.

    5. I’ve gotten into the Think Thin breakfast smoothies. They’re at Target. They’re not cheap but they’re way cheaper than Shakeology.

    6. Plant Fusion Plant Protein is tasty to me. I used the chocolate and cookies & cream mostly. You can order sample packets for $10 to try them out from their website.

    7. I like ProMix – you can buy it on Amazon. I put it in a blender with some milk and ice. Very palatable, not gritty or overly sweet, and has a nice light taste.

    8. I say this all the time here, but I love the svelte soy protein shakes. I buy them on Amazon and they are far and above better than any similar product. Also love that they are shelf-stable– I try to always have a few stashed in my desk for emergencies when I can’t eat lunch.

  23. My best friend said I love you to her boyfriend within the first five months of dating. They’ve now been dating for over a year and he hasn’t said it back. I’ve tried not to insert my opinion so far and will probably refrain from doing so, but am I alone in thinking that she might want to run from this guy? We’re both 28 years old and it seems like kind of a waste of time to me…

    1. I can’t imagine dating someone for a year if they had never said ‘I Love You’- I find even 5 months a really long time at late twenties age range. Maybe he does love her, but his complete inability to acknowledge his feelings does not bode well for a stable long term relationship.

      1. +1. I dated someone for well over a year who was emotionally stingy, and never said ILY. I finally realized that I was denying myself something that could come easy and freely with the right person. But YMMV.

    2. It doesn’t matter if you think it is a waste of time, what matters is if she is okay with the status and if she is okay with him not saying it at this point. People move at different speeds in relationships and so long as each party is okay with the speeds being different and where they are respectively, there isn’t a problem. The problem comes if the speeds are different and one of the parties is not on board with it.

      1. It might or might not be a waste of time, but you actually don’t have enough information to say, since you’re not the person in the relationship. There could be more than one reason he won’t say it – he’s emotionally stingy, or he doesn’t want to say it unless he’s sure he means it forever…

        I don’t think your opinion is wrong, per se, but remember that your outsider’s perspective is necessarily limited.

    3. I have a friend who dated a guy for five YEARS who never said I love you. She said it to him, semi-frequently. They got engaged. I was so bewildered. She kept saying it was fine, that she knew he loved her, he didn’t have to say it, etc, which always seemed to me that she was trying to justify it to herself (not to me). He ended up calling the wedding off. It took her a while in therapy to get to the point that she realized she deserved to be loved and that he was an emotionally manipulative jerk. She’s now married to someone who is–gasp–upfront with his feelings.

    4. It’s not what I would want for myself, but I try to not judge friends’ relationships based on my dealbreakers. Mostly because I’ve been proven wrong a lot of times.

      A friend of a friend was dating a guy for 2 years and he still hadn’t said ILY. She went to therapy to deal with her feelings about it. I thought that was ridiculous; you don’t need a therapist because you’re sad that your BF of 2 years hasn’t said ILY, you need a new BF. But they’ve been together for going on 5 years now and they’re ridiculously happy, they travel a ton and they’re talking about marriage. I have no clue if he’s ever said ILY.

    5. I grew up in a family where “I love you” was never, ever said, and it took me a very long time to feel comfortable saying it to my now-husband when we were dating. He said it first and I said it back because I knew it was important to him, but I just felt really weird saying it out loud and still sort of do even after 15 years of marriage. It is not natural to say and isn’t something that naturally occurs to me. So I would look more at how this guy acts and treats her than at whether he says one particular phrase.

      1. This is my family too (although more very infrequently vs. never) and I also struggle with it. We also don’t talk about feelings or touch each other, so I had to learn those languages and the whys of them over time and through therapy. Personally, I come from the but I am SHOWING you how I love you, why is it so important for me to say it all the time camp. Clearly, that does not work for most people, so I have worked on it.

    6. I should’ve added that she really wants him to say it back and is insecure about him not doing it, but she wants the relationship to work out. It’s kind of hard to know what to say when she talks like that so I’ve mostly tried to listen. He’s from a family that definitely doesn’t say I love you a lot, but is close in a more stoic kind of way (if that makes sense).

      1. I have probably told this story before, but when I reached the “I need him to say those three little words” breaking point, I busted out some George Eliot: “I like not only to be loved, but also to be told that I am loved. I am not sure that you are of the same mind. But the realm of silence is large enough beyond the grave. This is the world of light and speech, and I shall take leave to tell you that you are very dear.”

        It got the conversation going, at least, and it turned out he was like Three Little Words at 11:19 a.m. and we established that he had Those Feelings and it was saying it, rather than hearing it, that flipped him out. And for a while I said it to him regularly but less often than I wanted to, and he said it back about 20% of the time. And then after we got engaged somehow the switch flipped and now he is a regular Feelings Talker and he says it all the time.

        YMMV but I guess my advice is to have a discussion about it but at some point he is who he is and then you’re in price of admission vs. dealbreaker territory.

    7. My boyfriend and I have a running joke about this. A few (3ish) months into dating he very tentatively told me that he wasn’t sure love existed as a distinct, separate feeling from liking. So I laughed about it and teased him saying that he was clearly dead inside because he didn’t believe in love.

      A few months later, we were clearly (to me) both falling for each other. But neither of us said the words. We would basically just make jokes about ‘strong feelings’ or ‘liking’. We did have one conversation where I said to him that to me, love was different, and eventually I’d be hurt if he could never say that he loved me. But I held back from saying the actual words. Then one day we went out and got a little drunk. I threw up on the way home. This has literally never happened to me before – I have never even in college got drunk enough to throw up (I’m 32). In the shower, he told me he loved me and I got really really mad. WTF dude, you can’t say it for the first time super drunk, right after seeing me throw up! But then he said it again the next day and we both say it a bunch now. He’d been holding back because he was working out his changed opinion.

    8. My then-boyfriend and I did not say I love you until shortly before we got engaged. He was the first boyfriend I say I love you too, and I was not ready to say it until I knew he was the one. Just another perspective – I do not think it necessarily means he is not committed or that he doesn’t love her just because those three words have not been said.

    9. She needs to address it with him. I’ve witnessed this exact same scenario with a male friend, his gf said I love you within four months and he dated her over a year and never said it. She kept a good face in front of everyone, but once in a while we’d be out and she’d drunkenly spill to a couple girls she trusted about how insecure she was about him not saying it. It got to the point where we, his friends, would ask him all the time what the hell was going on, have you said it, are you going to, and if not, why are you still with her. He liked her a whole lot and enjoyed spending time with her but she wasn’t the one, and he’s not the type of guy to say what he’s not honestly feeling. They broke up without him ever saying it, and within a couple months he got together with the girl he should have been dating the whole time, said ILY in a respectable amount of time, and today they’re happily married.

    10. It took my boyfriend 3 years to say it, I said it within the first year. We’ve been together for 5, and now he is WAY more feelings and words than I am. Bizarre turning of the tables but it happens.

  24. My local SOLACE (Support of Lawyers/Legal Personnel – All Concern Encouraged) program forwarded requests they received from the Louisiana SOLACE program from those affected by the floods and wow are they heartbreaking. If you can afford to offer support, I encourage you to do so because the need is great.

  25. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good family lawyer in New York? I asked last time and had few response so I’m trying again.

  26. I’ll be starting a heavy travel schedule soon, around 75%, and I’m trying to figure out ways to save time and minimize the number of grooming products to pack. Keratin treatments seem like a good way to use fewer products and speed up drying time. My hair is shoulder length and completely untreated, with near daily hair drying being the most abuse it takes. Worth it?

    1. How long does it last? If you travel a lot, it’s difficult to make regular appointments if you need to get it redone after a few months.

    2. I found the dry time improvements from keratin products only lasted a few weeks.

      I travel at least 80% of the time, and I generally wash my hair every other day. On the days I am not washing it, I put dry shampoo in it the night before and don’t get it wet or wash it the next morning.

      When I am on the road I have travel size of everything that I do at home that just stays in the bag. For hairspray and dry shampoo, I buy travel-size only and when I think it is close to done I will take it out and keep it in my bathroom to use and put a new bottle in the travel bag.

      I will say that I have a slightly larger bag then what we are allowed for liquids and I never have TSA challenge me on that. I also keep my toothbrush, razor, and other stuff in there as well.

    3. In my opinion, it is not worth it. If you are looking for ways to minimize the number of hair products while blow-drying often, I would recommend sticking with gentle, sulphate-free shampoo [I find them to be the least drying even on my damaged hair], moisturizing hair mask/conditioner [I have had good experience with Wella Professional Moisturizing Mask], and a dry shampoo [to keep your hair fresh in-between]. I found that when my hair is moisturized, it holds better and I do not need any styling products.
      I buy larger-size packs and then refill my travel-size bottles/tubes.
      When travelling gets crazy [80% of time on the road], I have 2 sets of luggage ready – 1 which I travel with and the other stays at home, ready-to-go when I am back from trip #1. This way, I do not have to frantically run around the apartment and forget things at the last minute. The second luggage is ready and packed with coordinated clothes, shoes, accessories, cosmetics, my medication.

  27. I just got roughly 15″ of my hair cut off. It is not “pure” hair, meaning, the part that was cut off has been colored (highlights). The salon encouraged me to donate it, but sent it with me. Do I donate it? If so, where/how? TIA!

      1. ^and they list it right in their listing:

        “Hair that has been bleached (usually this refers to highlighted hair) is not usable. If unsure, ask your stylist. We are not able to accept bleached hair due to a chemical reaction that occurs during the manufacturing process.”

    2. As a wig-wearer…highlighted hair doesn’t survive the wig-making process well. Locks of Love and other companies will not use that hair for wigs for children, cancer survivors, etc.

      Colored/highlighted hair is instead sold to salons, overseas to be made into clip-in hair extensions (the kind that is relatively cheap and sells for $100 a set and lasts a few months). Locks of Love and company get a percentage of the sale price, but not a lot.

      So if you donate it, just be aware that your hair will likely be sold, rather than become a well-loved wig.

    3. I have been donating my hair to Pantene Beautiful Lengths for years. They create wigs for the American Cancer Society to give to women with cancer. According to the FAQs, “Hair may be colored with vegetable dyes, rinses, and semi-permanent dyes. It cannot be bleached, permanently colored, or chemically treated (if unsure, ask your stylist).” I don’t know whether highlights are considered permanent or semi-permanent.

      Here are the FAQs: http://pantene.com/en-us/brandexperience/frequently-asked-questions

  28. You should probably regret throwing a blazer (however bizarre) into the trash instead of donating it.

    1. Oh, please. Clothing waste in landfills is definitely a problem, but it’s not like there are people out there going naked because somebody didn’t donate a blazer. Charities have so much excess donated clothing that they ship it abroad just to get rid of it! And the cheap stuff is likely to be sent to the shredder anyway.

      So please climb down off your high horse.

      1. +1. I was really surprised that someone would just “not bother” to return something even if it was only $20. It really says a lot about the wealth and privilege of this group that many of you think nothing of tossing a $20 bill in the trash.

      2. Right? Esp when you wrote a blog post about how one of your awesome skills is returning online purchases….

    3. Actually, I agree with this. I was surprised.

      SA, also surprised by you! Yikes…

      Charities shipping clothing abroad is still a good thing – they donate it where it is needed and/ or make money from it for more good works. Just because we don’t use it here, doesn’t mean it isn’t used elsewhere.

      And yes, cheap blazers are still useful. I donated all my Mom’s suits after she passed to a local charity that gives them to underprivileged women trying to re-enter the work force. Good stuff.

      There is so much waste in the world. There is so much over-buying, upgrading, and things put in the trash every day that shouldn’t be.

      Just something to think about. Senior Attorney, you have a lot of good input, but realize that you also live in a very wealthy bubble that most of us… never mind most of the world… does not. And we can all do better.

      1. That’s all fine. I’m sure your mom’s stuff was put to good use. But a nasty cheap blazer from China?

        The problem was that it was manufactured and purchased in the first place. And yeah, it was dumb not to return it, which is definitely what I would have done. But donating it to a charity that is almost certainly going to shred it doesn’t seem to be a big step up from putting it in the trash. At the point where it has become waste, the damage has been done. We can all do better by not buying that crap.

        1. Ouch.

          Yes, my Mom wore what you could consider “nasty cheap blazers” from China. It was all we could afford. And she still took exquisite care of them, and mended them herself.

        2. Recycling is better than throwing things away, I think. Even if they’re just recycling the fabric.

        3. …..most clothes that Americans wear are made in China, unless you are talking about luxury brands. I wear a lot of mall brands like GAP and The Limited. Almost all of my clothes are made in China, but I don’t think that makes them nasty. We can’t all afford $200 t-shirts.

        4. Look, I’m just going by what Kat wrote above: She ordered a super-cheap blazer from China and it was bizarre and unwearable and she tossed it. And I don’t think tossing it was all that much worse than donating it if it was truly unwearable.

          I am well aware that most of the clothing we all wear is made in China. I am quite sure most of the garments I am wearing today are from China. I myself wear “mall brand” clothing almost exclusively.

          But you all have convinced me that recycling, even if it means shredding, is better than tossing stuff in the landfill.

          And I still say the best option is not to buy the truly disposable fast fashion in the first place.

          1. I think I should switch the “But” and the “And” in the third and fourth paragraphs up there…

      2. Actually, a lot of stuff that is shipped overseas is flooding markets and has done a lot of damage to local clothing industries. I do think it’s a sad reflection of our throwaway consumer culture to throw new clothes in the trash rather than donating or returning them, though.

  29. My google fu is failing me.

    I’m trying to find information about what the IRS would consider when determining whether a home office is for the “convenience of my employer”. The IRS publication did not provide any insight.

    Any idea where I might find this info?

    Salient facts (although I’m not looking for tax or legal advice here) – I’ll be working from home because I am relocating (for personal reasons) to a city in which my employer does not have an office.

    1. Are you considered a remote employee? I am not a lawyer nor a tax pro, but I am a remote employee that has been writing off home office expenses. My employer does not have an office in my state.

      I and my CPA didn’t even question this.

    2. I am a CPA and I wouldn’t question your use of a home office at all. I have always considered “convenience of your employer” to mean that if you didn’t work in your home office, you wouldn’t work for that employer. So having your office in your home is so your employer doesn’t have to find someone else to work for them.

      A side note – I don’t know if you do your own taxes or not, but it might be worth it to use the simplified method which takes $5 per square foot of the office (max of $500) as the home office deduction. In some cases, this is a better deduction if you don’t pay large amounts of mortgage interest/rent or utilities.

  30. Sorry, Kat. You’re just way off base (as is Amazon) here. There is not a single dress on this list that I would consider wearing to the office. And, as an aside – I viewed several of the pictures from individuals who purchased or received the dress for free for their unbiased review and I have to say that apparently we have stopped teaching individuals how to learn what is an an appropriate size. Several, most, of the pictures of reviewers in the dresses were clearly in sizes that were not the sizes that were right. Dresses were stretched at the seams; pockets were pulled; fabric was so overloaded that hems were only slightly below what can legally be worn in public. Ladies, I may not have understood this at 20 or 30 either, but trust me – BUY THE BIGGER SIZE. You’ll actually look better. But, I second the earlier poster that said good karma to all that did post pics (especially along with height, weight, and bust measurements) – you’re angels in my book when I do want to buy something online.

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