This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
July 2022 Update: These pants are on sale in the 2022 Nordstrom Anniversary Sale — they're currently marked to $84, but they'll go back up to $128 after the sale ends. (And they have petite plus sizes!!)
In my ongoing search for leggings that can pass as pants, I recently purchased these skinny pants from Spanx. They definitely fall more toward the leggings side of the scale, so I’m not sure they would fly in a formal office, but they would be terrific for a more casual setting.
I’ve been wearing these with a slightly longer tunic-type top (like this) and a cardigan for casual in-office days.
The pants are $128 at Nordstrom and come in regular sizes S–XL, petite sizes S–XL, and plus sizes 1X–3X.
Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – Extra 40% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – New sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – Extra 40% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – New sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anon
Paint color help please?
Searching for the perfect cream or very light tan. We have medium oak floors and a pewter tin ceiling that we adore. Anything too tan gets dark and/or fights with the floor, and anything gray puts us into ‘tinfoil house’ land.
Everything I’ve “swatched” so far is too pink, too yellow-muddy, or too green. I want it to be dark enough to be clearly, intentionally different than “Ikea white” as we have their shoe cabinets and love them, but overall feel fresh and crisp. Help??
Hildy J.
Benjamin Moore Ivory Tower is my all-time favorite.
Anon
S-W and BM outfits often have color consultants who will come to your house. The light in each room matters a TON. And you want to get no less than 12×18″ boards (foam core or posterboard) of colors you think you like (they will often do this for a cost and then give you a credit off paint when you decide).
Also, check out Maria Killam — she has a good blog and good ideas (and does consultations, but I think having a live person in your house during the day is the most helpful).
BM Pale Oak?
BM Barren Plain may be too purpley-gray.
Anon
Almost our entire house is BM Pale Oak and I’m happy with it.
Painted
Just painted my entire house BM Pale Oak, and I love it. Grey in some lights, beige in others, very pretty. Everyone who has seen it has loved it.
BeenThatGuy
I don’t have a color to suggest but if you have a local ACE Hardware store or Benjamin Moore Dealer near you, I urge you to talk to them. Many years ago, I was looking for a very specific light blue (basically white with a splash of blue paint in it). My local ACE kept making samples for me, keeping track of the measurements of color added, until I got the perfect shade I was looking for. I’ve never gotten that type of service at Home Depot or Lowe’s. I can’t suggest your “local hardware store” enough for this type of thing.
Lilau
This is not a cream, but have you tried BM’s Manchester tan? It’s a beige with green-ish undertones (at least to my eye) and looks good with BMs simply white trim. That worked recently when we were trying to “freshen up” (really:cool down) a warm-toned kitchen.
Anon
I had Man Tan in a baby room and loved it there. I thought I wanted the rest of my house (with way different light) to be Man Tan. Then I did a giant piece of foam board in Man Tan paint and . . . OMG it so did not work even though it worked in one room (northern exposure, no overhead light b/c Old House). So . . . road test on samples on white (don’t paint the wall!) and move them around the room on different walls and at different times of day. Man Tan is a great color, but no color is great everywhere with your existing things in any space (as much I’d love for that to be true).
I have gotten A+ happiness when I spent a lot of time prior to painting and A- results also, so even my mileage varies. But when I went with 2″ swatches, I have gotten meh results when something was just much more vivid or greenish or had purple undertones only apparent over a large space when done over a whole room.
Lilau
Ahh! Great point and great advice re: no color is great everywhere- especially with existing decor and different lighting.
Also, I think some of us (me included) are really guilty of asking too much of paint. I have found the “perfect” color doesn’t go as far as say, swapping out my window treatments or art.
AnonATL
We have a paint in our living room from Behr that I think was called Bone or something like that. I don’t see that color swatch anymore, but its a nice cooler tone offwhite. It’s almost like a lighter SW Agreeable Grey.
Go for it
BM atrium white
It’s the color of milk and has excellent light refracting quality.
PS I want your ceilings!!
Anon
Love Benjamin Moore Atrium white. I’ve found the BM stand-alone stores to be the best with paint help.
Anon
We have a very light green in the main parts of our house that we love and that multiple people have complimented. Light enough it’s a neutral but not actually in the tan family so no competition with floors or trim. Maybe try looking for something like that?
Anon
Benjamin Moore lancaster whitewash
Anon
Benjamin Moore Carrington Beige for more color, Navajo White for a lighter version.
anon
+1 to the suggestion to test large swatches before you commit to a color, whether on a board or on a wall section. It’ll give you an idea of how the light in the space affects the color — you’ll see it in different qualities of light, and you’ll also get a sense of how your artificial lighting interacts with the tones in the paint. Colors have different undertones, and different lighting situations (warm light, like ‘golden hour’ light vs, cool light) will bring out different dimensions of the undertones. Your exposure – north, south, east, west, etc. – will also change your perception of the paint color.
Texture can also change color perception, so you might want to try the same color in matte, semigloss, and gloss.
I painted a north-facing room, with honey oak floors, in BM white owl, and it was really pretty. Here in NYC the light can be either silvery or golden, so I wanted something that would work under all conditions.
Farrow and ball makes highly-pigmented, somewhat unusual paint colors that might work for your combination of pewter tin ceilings and oak floors.
anon
BM white dove, not white owl :) we used grey owl in a bathroom, so i mixed them up!
Anon
OP of the thread here — thanks for all the ideas so far! I am saving all the suggestions in an email.
We are definitely testing the colors thoroughly (painting about a 12″ square on each wall that we plan to use the color on)… one that looked perfect on the back wall looked like a mud puddle on another, hence the query :)
Anon
Check out samplize – you can order contact paper sheets of most popular paint colors to test without having to get tester cans or ruin your walls in the meantime.
Anonymous
Not your suggestion, but we have Standish white in our house and it’s a lovely buttery yellow that would probably go with what you describe, as we switched from tan in our house
Anon
If you really want to go to town on different varieties of white, take a look at Donald Kaufman color. You can order swatches, and then order pigment to be mixed at your local Benjamin Moore dealer instead of ordering cans of paint. We have a lot of art that needs a good white background but also works with our light and furnishings (because we aren’t actually an art gallery), and I splurged on the white color cards collection and have no regrets!
KP
BM Cedar Key
Anonie
SW Maison Blanche
Anon
Any recommendations for an alternative to the Revlon One-Step Hot Air Brush that doesn’t get as hot? I’m tempted to purchase, but many reviews criticize the high heat levels. I’m worried the brush will fry my hair, even with a heat protectant.
anon
I use it on the low heat setting and haven’t had any issues.
KW
+1
Anon
So, the best way to use this brush is as a finishing tool. I air dry/rough dry my hair with my regular dryer until it’s like 90% dry, and then use the Revlon to straighten it. It really grips the hair to pull it taut and smooth it. So you’re blasting your hair with the high heat the entire time. I highly recommend it, it’s the only way I can achieve a blowout on my extremely thick, curly hair at home.
Anon
This is what I do. Air dry for a while and then go in for 5- 10 mins max to get the air dry. That’s all you need.
Anon
*NOT blasting your hair with the high heat
NY CPA
+1 it does a fab job on my thick, curly hair after I partially air dry it
Anon
Yep! I don’t use it to dry my hair. I shower at night and let my hair dry overnight. Then I use the Revlon in the morning. Works like a charm.
Anon
Dry Bar!! it is so much better than Revlon and won’t kill your hair!
Anonymous
I disagree. I have very fine delicate shoulder length bleached hair and I use it for 5 minutes tops. Just to smooth out the waves and give it a shape. My routine is : Air dry, mist with heat protectant spray, and dry with the Revlon. I also do not drag it through my hair. I scoop up a section, hold with tension for 5 seconds and unroll gently. I have had periods of time where I look like a baby chick from all the broken hair from other hot brushes/curling irons/flat irons. Not so with this. No problems what -so -ever with the Revlon dryer. No broken hair in brush and no smell of burning hair. It’s a win.
Anonymous
Dyson Airwrap is amazing!!! Definitely worth the $$$
Jules
I’m late to this thread, but I have a no-name one from Amazon that I like (with a flat brush head, not a round one) that works beautifully to smooth my hair and help me get rid of the Gidget flip I can have with a regular hair dryer. I use it as a dryer, on full heat, and haven’t had any problems.
The one I have is discontinued but I sent this one to two of my sisters, who also like it.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0714LHP8N/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Anon
I work in public health so my past year has been brutal (and now that we’re working on vaccine distribution, it’s not letting up anytime soon). My health has definitely suffered this year (gained my COVID-15 because my meals are pizza late night at the office and I’m not having time to workout, I’m not sleeping well because I get stress dreams, my work/life balance is non existent right now). Not complaining – I love what I do and it’s amazing to be part of the solution (though having a spouse who could help around the house (I’m single) or making more money (I make 60k a year) would be nice!)
Now that we’re over a year in,I really need to get some semblance of work/life balance and health back. I’m currently working 70-95 hour weeks (usually ~8 hours of meetings during the middle of the day, so a good lunch break isn’t always possible), I’ve gained the Covid-15 and it feels like all I do is work. I’m exhausted and feel like I’m drowning in work. My agency is small, so I can’t really outsource work.
Moving forward Im going to focus on making a few healthier choices. What are your non negotiables when work is insane?
Anonymous
You’re working 95 hours for 60k? You need to focus on figuring out how to stop working and go home. Meditation and lots of water are not the solution you need.
Anon
+1
How is that much overtime allowed?
Anon
How do you think vaccination clinics are being stood up? This is a reality for those in public service this year. Local government officials are famously underpaid. They’re the backbone of this response.
Anonymous
People complain about the slow vaccine roll out but then also tellpeople working in public health to work less…
Anon
Obviously the answer isn’t have people work themselves to death for no money so we can have vaccine rollouts. The answer is to have more money for public health in all of our public budgets so they can hire more people.
anonshmanon
She is salaried and her field is experiencing a once in a lifetime crisis. Are you really surprised?
NY CPA
Is the OP in public accounting? Because I could totally see that being the case. In addition to our usual year-end audit rush where we typically work ~65 hours per week, every start-up in the world decided now was the perfect time to IPO/SPAC and therefore gave everyone an insane amount of extra work. 80+ hr weeks have not been uncommon. I haven’t had a day off (including weekends) since New Years before yesterday. Are we getting paid extra for it? HA! Public accounting is notorious for underpaying people. Starting out in a VHCOL market, we make about $60K. Even at my current salary of just over $100K, I feel grossly underpaid for the level of mental and emotional strain we’ve all been going through in the past few months.
NY CPA
Sorry missed the part where she said public health!
CPA Lady
preeeaaachhh… finally cracked 75k (in a LCOL) with 9 year of experience. hashtag blessed.
anon
Yeah I’m a prosecutor in a MCOL area and I make $47k with 7 years of experience. I leave at 4:15 every day on the dot because I’m not paid enough to work long hours. Sorry not sorry.
anon
I mean, yes? But this is also completely unsurprising to me, as someone who has spent her entire career in the public sector. There is literally nobody else to do the work, and it has to be done.
OP, if you’re comfortable with it, I would suggest taking a couple of vacation days to decompress and rest. For good habits, watch your caffeine intake and snack on fruits, veggies, and nuts. Things that are easy to grab in the morning and require no prep work on your part.
Thank you for your service, by the way.
Anon
Yoga nidra meditation while in bed, winding down to sleep, is a helpful way to destress. Jen on Do Yoga With Me is the best; the following are all free.
https://www.doyogawithme.com/content/yoga-nidra-jennifer-piercy
Anon
This is why, as someone who has spent my entire career in public service, I don’t talk about work with my private sector friends. People just don’t get it.
Anonymous
You wanna kill yourself for a job that doesn’t value you have at it.
Anon
So what’s your solution? Are you advocating to local, state, and federal governments that they pay public service employees more or give larger grants to improve salary? Are you donating to local nonprofits so they can increase salary? Are you engaging in pro bono work to take the load off of people like legal services employees? Volunteering at vaccine sites?
Incredibly important work would not get done without public service employees. Your snide comments about it aren’t helpful.
Anon
My boss is actually very supportive and tries to be a buffer for us as much as he can. I have great coworkers. Morale is pretty good, all things considered. I definitely feel valued here.
My job can’t just give us raises – it’s local government and salaries are part of the city’s budget. My city, like many others, is a poor city trying to do a lot with a little.
I’m also not killing myself for my job. I’m doing it for the people I am serving.
anon
Yep same. All of the comments on here telling her to “just work less!” are so unhelpful.
Anonymous
You want to pretend that eating a salad is the solution fine. But it’s lipstick on a pig.
Anon
Again, then what are you doing about this “lipstick on a pig?” Or are you just okay with disparaging public service employees for doing work you won’t do anonymously on the internet?
Anonymous
I’m not disparaging her. But there’s no way to sustain this healthfully and it’s no use pretending otherwise. She needs to go home.
Anon
No, it’s not sustainable but it’s reality. If she and her colleagues just work their 8 hours and go home, shots don’t go in arms. She does crucial work and her question was how to get through it since she can’t just drop it.
anon
No it’s not sustainable and I don’t think anyone should be working that many hours ever (not even Goldman dudebros). But we’re in a once in a lifetime crisis & her work is critical to getting us through it — she knows this and has obviously made her peace with things being nutty for a little while longer because she didn’t ask for job-searching advice. No need to come on here and shame her for not setting firm enough boundaries. I realize this is unfathomable for people with b*llshit jobs.
OP – thank you. I appreciate you so much. I hope you treat yourself when this is all over.
emeralds
The idea that there are people value contributing to society more than a higher paycheck, always seems to surprise someone on this board.
Anon, thank you for all you’ve done over the past year. I think you’ve gotten great advice on meals. As someone who’s prone to the 3am anxiety wakeup, in addition to getting outside for walks during meetings as you can, maybe also try 10-20 minutes of very gentle bedtime yoga? YouTube should have a selection of videos if you do a search. I do them in bed, in my PJs, turn the light off immediately, and usually seem to get a better night of sleep overall.
Anon
It has nothing to do with her income. She’s a human being. We can handle this level of work for only so long.
Cb
I do yoga nidra meditations that put me straight to sleep. If I’m really struggling with insomnia, I’ll have one queued up on my phone so I can just press play if I wake up in the night.
Anon
Allright fine, work 70-95+ hours a week for over a year and pretend it’s normal, healthy and sustainable. Work will definitely be there to cry at your funeral.
Anon
This is OP. This is actually something I’ve struggled with a LOT this year. I am normally a huge “don’t kill yourself for your job, your job won’t kill itself for you” person. When I work a lot I feel like a crappy friend and daughter.
But, it’s a pandemic and my career is doing things that are ultimately saving lives. I’ve had to give up a lot of things in my personal life this year because if work, but it always felt “worth it” because I knew that my work was making my community safer. Now that we’re in the vaccine stage of this response, my work to get shots into arms literally saves lives.
Obviously the hours and the stress and the missing out on other stuff have sucked, but what’s the alternative? Someone has to work these hours and do this work and honestly, I’m honored to be a part of it. I don’t think many private sector employees realize how much their public sector counterparts give to our jobs/communities. People don’t realize how much goes into the stuff that’s been taken for granted. I definitely struggle with work/life balance, not because I am a workaholic or anything, but because it’s hard to walk away when I know everything I do makes a tangible impact on my county. In many ways, it’s way way more than just a job, but if you’ve never worked in an environment like this it’s hard to understand
anon
OP, I see you and I’m with you.
Anonymous
OP, you’ve done great work. Ignore the naysayers who don’t get it and wouldn’t get it if they were punched in the face with it. See what you can do in terms of talking to your supervisors, dropping any non-essential meetings, and prioritizing sleep. Reducing your cortisol levels and getting enough sleep will help with your weight, probably even more than your diet. The Obesity Code had some great information on that. Otherwise, don’t snack between meals.
Anon
Not OP, responding to Anon at 10:15: maybe your colleagues won’t be there at your funeral because you’re obviously unpleasant but most public service jobs have incredibly tight teams who would absolutely be devastated.
As OP said, the reality of public service is that there are not enough people to do the work that has to be done. It has. to. be. done. They work with what they’ve got and that often doesn’t include hiring more staff. It’s just not possible with some budgets, especially in small towns or small nonprofits. But this incredibly important work still has to be done so rather than make rude comments, maybe try to advocate for larger budgets for your local government through levies or other mechanisms, donate, or volunteer.
emeralds
+1 to Anon at 10:57 AM.
Anon at 10:15
I advised OP to work less hours because NOBODY should work that much for over a year. It’s inhumane. I’m not giving that advice because I look down my nose at public service. My funeral response was directed to the commenter who couldn’t understand why so many people had that perspective. I do advocate for more public spending, precisely because we should not expect people to work like this. Rich people get crazy tax breaks and OP works 95 hours a week. That’s fundamentally unfair.
Anywho, my coworkers love me precisely because I think everybody deserves a life outside of work, even when that work is meaningful and important.
But ummmm yeah – bagged salad and rotisserie chicken.
Senior Attorney
Good grief, why are people so mean? It’s a once-in-a-generation public health crisis and OP is one of the people who has to be there with boots on the ground.
OP, I hope you get to take a very long, very nice vacation in the reasonably near future. Thank you for all you are doing!
Anon
You know what’s mean, SA? Casually accepting as a given that OP can/should work 70-95+ hours a week. It’s been over a year.
Senior Attorney
Nothing casual about it and you are deliberately misreading my post.
Anon
Same, SA. Same.
Cat
This is harder on a tighter budget (because of course healthier takeout is usually more expensive) but – if you can make only one change, ditch the pizza and get salads (with a protein) or sushi for dinner.
Are any of the meetings the type where you could go for a walk (or at least sit outside if you must look at a screen)?
Anon
or even buy bagged salads and a rotisserie chicken or deli meat from the grocery store. you’ll feel better not eating pizza all the time
Also- thank you for your work! I’m sure it’s benefitting all of us in ways we don’t realize
Cat
This idea is so much better than mine and I totally forgot we actually do this for dinners ourselves on grocery shopping day.
anne-on
This – trader joes has great bagged salad kits. I would buy those, some berries/cut up fruit to keep in the office and snack on those. I get much better mileage out of protein heavy snacks as opposed to junk food – cheese and pre-portioned salami with a few crackers, low fat greek yogurt with berries, babybel cheeses, hummus and pretzel things.
Anon
This is perfect. Thanks.
anonshmanon
also a filling snack that hits the junk food craving for me: those roasted chickpea snacks. Loaded with salt and probably also fat, but I can stop eating after a handful because they have a lot of protein.
Anon
Top pizza slices with bagged arugula and dip the crusts in hummus.
Anon
You need to stop working so much. Figure out how to get the most high priority items done in an 8-9 hour a day and then go home and enjoy your life. You’ve done great work over the past year, but you shouldn’t carry this on your shoulders.
Anonymous
Yup. Is every single one of your coworkers working this hard? What actually happens if you a) bill every minute of work and b) leave.
Anon
Yeah, they are. Everyone I know here is working 12+ hour days. I try to be at work from 8-8 and turn my work phone off from 10pm-7am. When I look at my phone in the morning I see lots of emails that came in during those hours I’m offline.
I am recording every minute of work on my time sheet, and I’m encouraging my team to do the same. My boss is trying hard to prevent burnout but there’s a lot of work and not a ton of people to get it done.
Anon
“Bill every moment” lol you’ve clearly never worked in public service
Horse Crazy
Hahahahahahaha it’s adorable that you think public servants can bill their work.
Anon
Looking for a new job — can you possibly transition to a clinic setting where you have set hours? Public health can be a lot of things and not all of them are like this. If it is just a for-the-pandemic awfulness, that is one thing. But for 60K, this schedule is stopping you from taking other PT jobs that would give you more $ (or enjoying your free time).
Anon
Yeah this is just for the pandemic! Normally I work 37.5 hours / week and have fine work life balance.
Anonymous
How does your agency not pay overtime? Anything beyond my allotted hours needs to be approved by management and paid. You should be able to use the overtime money to ease the household burden. Personally I prefer buying grocery store salads (vs take out) much cheaper and healthier. I like getting the “Asian” ones then slicing up some smoked or sriracha tofu on top. The whole meal takes 3 minutes to make and is super filling, tasty and healthy. Otherwise I like oatmeal as an anytime snack same with fruit or hummus and carrots.
Anon
I do get OT but the way it’s taxed here, it’s not as lucrative as it could be
Anon
Are you in the US? Our rates are flatter than they have ever been, so I don’t see how this is true. Even if you are kicked into a higher bracket, only the income in excess of the prior bracket is taxed at the higher rate. Where I work, free health insurance is based on not making more than $X, so maybe if you lost an income-based perk, this would be true. But I’d check your W-2 — something sounds really off.
Anonymous
+1 tax brackets don’t just magically eat up OT money, that’s a myth.
Curious
Ha. This varies by state. If she goes into a higher marginal tax bracket for her OT and she’s in a high income tax state (I’m looking at you, Illinois), the difference between $60K and $80K ends up being a pittance.
Anon
She’s probably exempt.
Anonymous
At my agency the only exempt staff are reallllly high up in the food chain and based on OPs own description she is not that high.
Anon
I dunno, SME leading meetings sounds administratively exempt to me. Regardless, thank you OP for doing the work you’re doing.
Anon
I’m not very high up at my agency and am exempt — the only people who are not are those whose job descriptions are very clearly support staff (i.e. the receptionist).
Anonymous
Prioritize sleep—you’ll make better decisions and better use of time when we’ll rested. Plan your meals each week so you’re not so dependent on what’re folks are ordering and not caught wasting too much time in the day with prep. Salads, cereal, oatmeal, quiches, soups, chili, premise casseroles will allow fast consumption (and easy to take to the office. Get a Fitbit and meet the 250 steps an hour goal (my husband has a headset and paces during calls and it’s amazing how much the little things add up). Think about work like a marathon and not a sprint. At what point do you petition for more help? Are you losing time with a lot of follow up—can you set auto reminders for folks using something like Smartsheet? Do you have to be on every meeting? Try to find small ways to work smarter rather than longer. When you’re out of the office, try to compartmentalize and not think about work. Try to steal time in nature whenever you can, even if it’s just a quick lunch in your car at a park or a 15 min break outside.
Anonymous
On my phone—sorry for all the crazy typos!
Anon
I agree with everyone else, you should cut your hours – they aren’t paying you enough for you to work that much. Schedule your lunch as a meeting on your calendar so that you have dedicated time for it. Don’t be afraid to say no to meetings because you’re busy. Talk to your manager about workload – you can’t get everything done and it is likely that at your level, it is simply not your problem – it’s your management’s. There’s no way at all you should be working 95 hours on that salary. I’m not saying you should not be working overtime, but 95 hours is under no circumstances reasonable even if it is for a good cause. They have no incentive to fix the workload or hire more people if you willingly do it.
Anonymous
Hey fellow warrior! Thank you for changing the world.
What has helped me: use those bathroom
breaks to take a few flights of stairs and attempt to feel calm. Volunteer to be the runner between the clinic and the vaccine prep area. Ask mgt to send something healthier than endless carbs for lunch. Bring a yogurt in with you.
Thank you!
Anon
Thank you!!! I’m just clinic management – I have it “easy” compared to the people on the floor all day.
AnonATL
Thanks for all the hard work you are doing right now! I hope this is truly a once in a lifetime event for your both and it’s all about getting through it until then. I haven’t had to work for such an extended period as you, but when I had a crazy couple of quarters for work I found a few things helped:
Baths on every friday night before bed. Sometimes I’d bring in the laptop and watch a cheesy show with some wine and then straight to bed. I need sleep so I prioritized it.
An essential oil diffuser with lavender and either eucalyptus or peppermint.
Easy prepared food. Pre-chopped fruits, veggies, and salad kits. Buy those bags of the pre-peeled boiled eggs at costco or cooked chicken. Lots of healthy food and less junk.
It may not be possible for you, but I also allotted certain hours for weekend work. I’m a morning person, so I’d get up early with the dogs, grab some coffee, and then work till noon. It was much more restorative to actually have scheduled off time on the weekend even if it was only a few hours.
And finally get outside as much as you can. Take as many meetings outside or while moving vs sitting at your desk.
Again thank you both so much for all the hard work! I have my vaccine scheduled, and I know that luxury is in no small part due to the all the public health folks out there.
Anon
I’m going to go with you have to be in all those meetings. If you’re remote (or even if not), for whatever ones you dial in for, take them while taking a walk. The “walk and talk” has been sanity saving for me. Not all meetings are created equal, not all require note taking or paying deep attention- I find those and go for a walk when I’m exceptionally busy. 1:1s are good for that too.
Anon
Yeah if I could get out of meetings I would! Im in person, and I’m often either facilitating meetings or speaking as the project SME on them
Flats Only
If it’s something you can control, could some of the meetings be 45 of 50 minutes vs a whole hour? That buys you back a chance each hour to triage email and maybe answer a couple, take a quick walk, put together a fast lunch, etc. I find it really helps the “back to back” meetings be less demoralizing and keeps that huge wave of email from piling up for hours and swamping me at the end of the day.
pugsnbourbon
+1. Be absolutely ruthless with time on the meetings you facilitate. On the ones you’re SME, can you speak your piece and then drop out of the meeting if the rest of it isn’t relevant?
And thank you for what you do. You rock.
Anonymous
First of all, thank you for your service. Second of all, you can’t self-care your way out of those hours. You need to talk to your supervisor stat and see how you can reduce.
Also, it doesn’t matter what your pay is. Absolutely nobody should be working those hours for that long.
Anonanonanon2
Solidarity. Former public health worker, now public health-adjacent, I get it, and I remember living at that pay level. Also, for those wondering, these are usually FLSA-exempt positions and state/local government use that to not provide overtime or comp time. So there is no “billing.”
-Get out and walk as the weather improves. There have to be some coordination calls you mostly listen in on, use those to walk around.
-I’m a fan of Melissa Wood Health’s workouts. She has some as short as 10 minutes. Definitely something you could do in your office. She helps me re-center at the end, too.
-Takeout and meal delivery is hard when you make that money, but I found Trader Joe’s helpful for meals. They have some salad kits, wraps, etc. you can get that are pre-made.
-Get a mini-fridge for the office to keep the TJs food in.
-I don’t know how old you are, but something I have learned as my career has progressed is that almost everything can wait 15 minutes. Public Health is not an ambulance. You’re allowed to silence your phone for 10 minutes to eat.
Anonanonanon2
Also, what is your commute? Several of my public health colleagues who are younger and single have either leased closer to the office or even started staying in long-term residence hotels closer to the office as their leases have run out over the past year. Some of the extended stay hotels are cheaper than a lease would be and there is some level of housekeeping.
Anon
I’m only 4 miles from my office, it’s an easy/quick bike ride. I work at sites that are all over, but then I usually carpool with coworkers
Anon
Are the people criticizing OP for working so much (to save lives during the pandemic nonetheless) the same people who were going off in last Friday’s thread about the Goldman Sachs survey? Because the general consensus in that thread was that the survey respondents were complaining and should just shut up and work their long hours for their salaries. Personally, I think OP here is doing the world a greater service for her community and our country than anyone in Big Law is, so I don’t get all the hate here? Clearly this is a once in a lifetime (hopefully) pandemic and OP works in public health. Someone needs to work long hours to get shots in arms. Instead of criticizing her, maybe y’all should make suggestions for healthier choices like she asked?
Anonymous
+1 million
anon
+2 million. Came here to say the exact same thing.
Jules
All of this! OP, you – and all of your colleagues, all over the country – are fantastic and valued.
Coach Laura
Someone here posted lunch that she brings each day to watch consumption/calories. I’ve adapted it and use it (or used it, I should say pre-pandemic when I was in the office). I bring baby carrots, almonds and hummus or a hardboiled egg. You can buy bags of baby carrots and portion five packages on Sunday night. Buy Sabra or another brand of pre-made hummus and put in containers. (You can also buy small containers pre-packaged but they create a lot of waste.) Many stores now have pre-made, pre-peeled hard-boiled eggs if making them on Sunday night is too hard – Trader Joe’s and Costco have them. Count out and package five packs of 22 almonds – perhaps even mix in some spiced almonds or chocolate covered almonds for a treat. It’s a healthier lunch than pizza and cheaper than most takeout lunches. It’s also easy and not messy so you can eat it at your desk or grab bites between meetings. And it would keep in an insulated lunch sack and not go bad over a work day if you don’t have access to a refrigerator.
My sneaky way to get exercise is to build it into my commute but I don’t know, based on what you’ve told us, that that is possible. Walking part of the way to work, parking farther away, riding your bicycle. Otherwise, lunges and other bodyweight exercises plus office yoga between meetings. At a minimum I do calf stretches leaning against a wall, tabletop downward dog (hands on edge of desk, back straight, focus on lengthening back of legs and relaxing), shoulder stretch in doorway, desk chair twist, shoulder shrugs, wrist flexion plus namaste-hands pose – there are ideas online. Yoga with Adriene has a YouTube video and there are others.
Thanks for your work to help the public.
anonshmanon
Tip for easy to peel hard boiled eggs is not to use fresh eggs. They are the culprit in sticky peels that rip everything apart. Let your eggs sit in the fridge for a good week before boiling them. This is how the pros do it.
Anon
Non-negotiables: always go to bed at a certain time so that you don’t mess up your sleep. Always take an exercise break even for just fifteen minutes. Additional thoughts: when you grocery shop, fill your basket with mostly healthy stuff you can snack on (no cookies, sweets, etc.) such as tangerines, blueberries, cheese. I find that eliminating carbs (no pasta, bread, rice) has done wonders for leveling out my blood sugar during the day and helped me drop weight. Limit coffee. If you can’t get out for a run, try pushups and sit ups with a goal in mind. Start the day with super happy music. Take a bath at the end of the evening. Thank you for all that you do!!
Anonymous
Although it is an honor and a privilege to serve our communities, it can also be incredibly difficult. One of the things that helps me is to keep reminding myself that this will last for a season. As awful as it is, this will not last forever and you will find comfort and joy for the rest of your life for the lives you helped to save.
When I have stress dreams, or can’t sleep, I daydream instead of worrying. Usually it’s about crazy things, like I am ice skating or flying or dancing, or I might think about a TV show I watched and make stuff up. The key is to daydream about something so removed from my daily life that I cannot fret over it.
I wish the best for you as we get through this last hard bit, remember what is on the other side is wonderful.
Anon
The clueless comments on here to the order of “just work less” are also the attitude that kills me when people on the list recommend going into public service so that the workday is 9-5. As if. Thank you for your dedication to a critical mission. There are lots of us doing it. For me, a few hours’ hike on the weekend, 5-7 minute workouts in my office, having friends who are less crazed keep me in fresh fruits and vegetables (I pay them for my items, of course), keeping nonfat yogurt handy, and spoiling myself with a perfect, homemade latte that I drink on my way into the office are a few of my tactics. Meditation tape to fall asleep.
Anon
Thank you for all your hard work!! I’m private sector now, but I remember my public service years – the long hours and low pay – and I cherish the difference I got to make and the people I helped during those years <3
Concur with others on easy grab and go items: mandarin oranges, low fat mozzarella sticks, almonds, popcorn. I like prepared lunch salads (careful with calories in the included dressing!), but they're rarely filling enough for me, so I definitely have to include the higher protein snacks above. I am SO bad about eating an entire container of junk food if it comes home with me (a serving of cookies is the entire sleeve, right? ;) ), so I don't let them in the house. If you like hard boiled eggs, they're great – you can either buy ready made or A mazon sells an egg cooker by the Dash company that makes boiling eggs effortless. (I hate the clutter of small appliances, but this one is so worth the room it takes up!)
For dinner, do you have a crockpot that automatically turns to Keep Warm when your food is cooked? You can do chicken tacos (salsa + taco seasoning envelope + chicken); bbq chicken (sauce + chicken); roast (meat + baby carrots/onions/sliced mushrooms/whatever you like + seasoning packet or DIY) with instant potatoes (they're good and not awful for you!). I also like to make lots of homemade soups on the weekends that I then freeze in individual containers.
Anon
Oh, and I definitely like the ideas suggested above for helping meetings. If you can, when your portion’s done, excuse yourself from meetings that you aren’t terribly relevant to. (I tried this recently and was so pleased to discover that people were like, “Oh, sure, sure, that makes total sense! No need to waste your time!”) And for meetings you’re leading, tell people they’re welcome to stand, to stretch, to move during the meeting. If you’re a leader in your organization, just speaking up can put voice to what so many others are feeling.
Anonymous
Hi!! I am a former public health worker who at one point had a full time job, a big part time job (because neither paid well) and was in grad school. So while I wasn’t working 90 hours/week at one job, I was living that same crazy life of super busy/stressed and super poor. I was out of the house 7am-10pm most days and made a combined $48k/year (in Boston ~2005) plus I was also in grad school.
Go to Trader Joes and buy premade food: sandwiches, salads, microwave indian food, heat and eat italian food, soups, that sort of thing. It’s not “healthy” but it’s also not pizza (which is not healthy but also boring and salty). Drink a LOT of water. Carve out blocks of time for yourself to really rest/rejuvenate– not sit on the couch and scroll on your phone, but go out and take a 2-3 hour hike in nature, without your phone. Get a pedicure and close your eyes. Buy some fancy bath stuff and take a 2 hour bath while drinking a glass of wine and reading a book (maybe about a future vacation location).
Yes, work will be there when you finish but you will just feel so much better. Plan a somewhat low cost vacation for this summer so you have something to look forward to: a drive to a nearby city for a 2-3 day “staycation,” a long weekend at a beach within driving distance, or heck, even a daytrip if that’s possible for your location.
If anyone on this board wants to set up a GoFundMe up for this poster, I’ll contribute $5 to get you the fancy @$$ coffee you want but know you shouldn’t buy on your salary. I don’t have time to administer it but I am happy to contribute :).
Anonymous
When in a similar situation, these sort of ideas bailed me out although I never thought I would survive:
For dinner pizza without cheese, followed by a piece of fruit with plain no fat Greek yougurt, followed by a one small square of Dove dark chocolate, all accompanied by plain or fizzy water. If still hungry make a bowl of instant oatmeal with some non-fat milk and a few raisins in it. Before bed drink a mug of hot water (no tea or coffee) or warm milk. Lay out clothes for the next day. Yoga in bed or reading for a few minutes – but not on a screen.
Get or prepare a stock of hard-boiled eggs for breakfast or snacking, with a piece of citrus fruit.
Try buying salad or soup for lunch.
Walk outside around the building or block for 5-10 minutes when it can be fitted in. Find one time each week to do laundry.
Spend 5 minutes each day but no more clearing clutter or cleaning.Have minimal cleaning supplies where they are used, duplicates if necessary.
In the evening throw out junk mail don’t put it down; put anything that needs to be deal with in one assigned place and deal with it when possible.
BUT most important thank you for doing what you are doing.
Lara
Awww, OP! I know I’m super late in posting and you might not see this but I wanted to let you know my heart goes out to you. Thank you for all your work.
Ways I survived my 3 years of medical residency with crazy hours:
– sleep gets priority above all else. I aimed for 8 hours a night, every single night. Good sleep hygiene and giving myself 10 minutes of reading (from a physical book) to disconnect before bed.
– 1 day off a week. Completely off. No work, minimal chores. (To help with that- I hired a house cleaner for every other week and just lowered my standards on the dishes). During that day off I tried to work out, but that was usually a yoga class or a nice long walk. There’s amazing evidence for exercise, but honestly when I was that exhausted, my body didn’t need more stress and I just accepted and appreciated that.
– we had 4 vacation weeks a year and were forced to take them, that part was great
– lots and lots of water
– there are a lot of great ideas on here about food. I’ll add- when I was able to eat dinner at home roasted salmon and vegetable (broccoli, Brussels sprouts, asparagus and/or carrots) were my go tos. You can find all of them in the frozen food aisle and they’re faster than pizza. Eating them at my kitchen table with some music playing made me feel human.
– I NEEDED to get outside every day. The vast majority of the time this was 5 minutes or less outside the front door of the hospital when I snuck away for a bathroom break (which also leads me to, and sorry for this being gross, I gave myself permission to go pee as frequently as I needed to. Yes, that counts as self care when you have a million priorities)
– my personal life suffered. It sucked. People understood.
– please give yourself a hard deadline for when you need to re-examine your working hours. I’m by no means saying that’s now. Just that my deadline was really clear (it was a 3 year program) so I was working towards that and it was helpful to know it was temporary.
Best of luck!!! xoxo
Anon
I feel like I’m ready to graduate from mall stores (BR will always be my go-to for suits though) now that I’m more senior at work. My city isn’t great for workwear — it has a ton of stores that will sell you athleisure or a giant floaty dress for a bridal/baby shower, but nothing for chic stuff you could wear to an office job (where you want to be “business casual” in an office that is open to denim).
I’m not at a Akris price point yet, but that is one brand I know heading in what I think is the right direction (and I look at them on ebay and posh but would like to find new things first I could return if they didn’t fit). What else might be good to start exploring online?
anon.
Modern Citizen, COS, Amour Vert, and Brass – take a look. All are affordable and slightly different from a mall store!
Cat
I haven’t ordered yet, but The Fold always has drool-worthy, structured-but-feminine pieces.
The Good Wife
I shop at the price point of Akris, but I also shop at Zara. My workwear is usually a mix of Max Mara & Max Mara weekend, Akris, Reiss, the Fold, Hugo Boss, Roland Mouret & Gucci, but I also do alot of Zara, Mango, local designers. I think the high-low dressing is key, it allows you to buy more “staple” pieces from the high end brands, and experiment with the fun stuff from cheaper places. Definitely spend time on Net-a-Porter, Farfetch, etc. NAP have really good sales!
Anonymous
Why not try on akris in store to see what fits, then buy second hand akris. Best of both worlds less expensive and higher quality.
anne-on
I would suggest stalking Brooks Brothers for their sales (great quality staples and some really pretty statement pieces every season), the Fold (also has great sales), Hobbs (sold at Bloomingdales so you can return), LK Bennet if you know your size, and JCrew has some good blouses and pencil skirts plus some nice workwear options. I fill in with pieces from Nordstrom/Bloomingdales – Kate Spade, Theory, Donna Karan, Rebecca Taylor are all good ones. I rarely wear ‘full’ suits these days but Boss has great options, however I find Brooks Brothers tailoring fits me better ‘off the rack’.
Anonymous
These are all mall stores for me!
Anon
OP here. I mean “mall stores perpetually running 40% off sales and I only shop when on sale.” Tory Burch is a mall store in one mall in my city. I need to figure out my size there b/c I like her printed blouses but could only buy on sale. BUT my fashion spending is truly minimal, so if I get things that I keep a while and actually wear regularly, that is $ well-spent and $/wear is pretty low.
anne-on
There is a world of difference between ‘I have a stand alone Theory in my mall and the anchor tenants are Nordstroms and Saks’ and ‘Jcrew is the fanciest store in my mall and the anchor tenants are Target and JCPenney’ I presumed the OP had a nice but not crazy fancy level of brands in her mall. Growing up our fanciest mall store was a Macys, and we had to drive 1.5-2hrs to get to the ‘fancy’ mall with a Nordstrom so I understand the struggle when you want to try to expand into different brands but have never tried them on in person.
Anon
This is so true. I grew up almost at the PA-NJ border and our mall had a Sears as an anchor. I went to the Short Hills mall and OMG that is another world. There are some cities where even the Talbots doesn’t carry suits (and that Talbots may be an hour from you), like what do people wear for funerals if not a office-appropriate dark suit or dress? Like everything is for weddings or church or baby showers. My mom is retired now, but she used to wear a suit or very dressy clothes to teach elementary school when I was young. But those clothes became her church clothes over the years and later she taught in jumpers and season-flavored cardigans (sort of like the shift I’m doing now from all-suits to I need a suit only sometimes but feel wrong not to have a couple in my closet that is current and fits).
Plus, I’ve been working about 10 years, so I’ve gained a size and also gotten so I don’t buy just anything at Loehman’s like I used to. BR has been my go-to, but I felt really weird a couple of years ago when our intern and I had the same outfit (which I thought of as one of my “nicer” ones).
Anonymous
Yeah Short Hills is my home and go to mall.
Anon
This is SO true.
My closest Talbots is 8 hrs away and when I asked about suits, they pointed me to sweatsuits.
Anon
Actually, I wouldn’t upgrade your stores, especially if you’re happy with suits from banana republic. If you can keep your lifestyle expenses lower even as your salary increases, it just gives you such a great financial cushion. Why not stalk consignment stores instead? Then you could come across interesting brands but not make it a regular feature of your purchasing. It’s also easier to assess quality there vs eBay.
Anon
+1 my salary and titles have improved drastically over the years, my work attire shopping at BR, JCrew, Boden, JCrew Factory, Ann Taylor and Nordstrom have stayed the same. I’m in finance, and I frequently interact with people outside my co. on a daily basis. And I do care about what I wear and think I look good and relevant, I just don’t think I need to spend high amounts to do it. I am fairly picky about what I buy from the above stores though.
That doesn’t mean this is right for everyone though, I realize. We all have our splurge priorities, mine just isn’t work attire.
Small Law
If you’re looking to change up your wardrobe or try new brands that are business casual, I recommend stitch fix. I expected to only find super casual things there, but their blazers and cardigans have been my favorite now that the world has stepped down from the mono-tone suit. So comfy and soft. I don’t know where I would find business casual stuff if I hadn’t tried them. Ask your friends to see if they have a referral code so you can get a gift card to spend on your first box.
Anon
I don’t mean to be a snob because I use stitch fix myself, but someone who is going from J Crew toward Akris is not going to be happy with the brands Stitch Fix offers. They are more Kohls level.
Anon
You know, you just confirmed all my anxiety about bothering to comment on this site.
Anon
Buy Akris on The Real Real. You can return, unless it’s on deep sale.
Anon
Except for just came out pieces, I’ve almost always been able to find the exact brand and item in my size, or a close enough I can tailor it size, on poshmark or similar sites (and some decent vintage pieces with much better construction and fabric). Avoid lifestyle inflation, save your money and get the same items for half the price. No one will know or care that it’s not brand new.
Anon
I don’t know if you consider Saks and Nieman Marcus mall stores, but I find higher end designers there. They also have incredible sales and an easy return policy.
Anon
Also, you should follow The Directrice for some Avant Garde designer inspo.
Anonymous
The fold
Boss
Lafayette 148
Salary issue
Looking for some advice on specific talking points to counter stereotyping/bias/sexism related to raises and salary coming from my boss. I’m single, early to mid 30s and fairly advanced in my career (but not yet a partner). My boss (senior partner) who has direct and basically exclusive deciding power over my annual comp increases often makes comments in the context of other conversations that are making me concerned that my performance alone isn’t the only contributing factor in my comp and his biases and stereotyping around single women are leading me to get short changed.
He has made several comments in day to day conversation about how since he has a wife and 4 kids that every dollar he earns is pre-spent and even though he makes the big bucks now, he’s still “poor”. He has said how lucky I am that I don’t have anyone to answer to with respect to how I spend my money and I must have so much more disposable income than even he does (highly unlikely). He also makes comments about how being the sole breadwinner for a family counting on you is a whole other level of stress and makes comp even more important when you have a family. He’s made reference to how a female partner I report to is the sole bread winner for her family so she’s carrying a heavy burden compared to single women or women who’s husbands work.
Setting aside the fact that 1) a lot of this is not appropriate for him to be saying and 2) it’s very personally hurtful to me as someone who is NOT single or childless by choice, he will listen to and consider counterpoints. So, the next time he tells me how lucky I am to be single with no dependents and how I must have plenty of money, how can I respond in a professional/non hostile way that gives counterpoints to why those factors shouldn’t impact my comp?
P.S. I know I could leave or go to HR, but for a variety of reasons those options aren’t ideal right now so I’d like to “play along” and be able to spar with him on the topic.
Veronica Mars
This sounds like a complaining contest to me. I’d be tempted to dish it right back with whatever you feel comfortable with. “Oh you’d think, but I’ve got these unbelievable student loans and I’m right there with you pinching pennies.” Or, “I can relate, I know I’m going to be the primary caregiver for my mom and dad, and that’s a huge financial burden.” Blah blah blah. Just keep rambling and complaining back to stop the envy. And this is definitely a HIM problem. Alternatively, you could try a short, “Actually it’s very painful to be reminded that I don’t have a family yet,” but you don’t seem to think that would work.
No Face
Yes, this sounds like he is complaining about breadwinner stress instead of gender views. He says that the female breadwinner has it bad too.
If you wanted to, you could complain about single person financial stress. You don’t have a safety net that a married person does. If you lost your job, you don’t have a spouse who could look for work to support the household. If you have student loans, complain about those. Or if none of that is true, you could say something like “Have you read about the cost of daycare or college lately? I need to save up for my future kids!” I found that talking about your future family can help out suss out sexist bias, because some men will start talking about how women want to stay at home or their wife just couldn’t stand to work after the baby was born, etc.
As for your comp, discuss why you deserve the raises and bonuses that you think you deserve. Make him justify his comp choices to counteract the bias he has against single people.
Anon
I mean, that is how he feels and I feel that there is a lot of truth to those feelings. [I will add: as a single person, you are also the sole provider and while I think a lot of families would float a dad who lost his job for a while “because it would be disruptive to the family to be homeless,” I bet the single woman would be invited to move home to a couch.] I think his error was not in having feelings but sharing freely. The remedy is not you sharing freely though (or HR).
A now-retired partner where I work complained about the rebates for the new appliances for his beach house. Like are you kidding me? I have no beach house. My actual residence has . . . old appliances. Dude is tone-deaf in a lot of ways (but I would not likely have a SAHH because I would find that it put a lot of pressure on me and would likely build resentment if I didn’t come home to a clean house).
LittleBigLaw
I don’t agree that his problem was in sharing freely since he is directly responsible for OP’s compensation. This isn’t some rambling guy down the hall she can ignore, and if anything, it’s good that OP is aware of his attitude.
Anon
If he thinks you have so much $, ask him if he’d like to switch comp with you?
Kidding. I just arch an eyebrow and go with “Really?” if someone is demanding my input or that I play along.
Anonymous
Can you invent a fake boyfriend? Possibly one who already has a child and works in a low wage job? I know it’s crummy but you won’t ever be able to change someone’s mind when they hold such biggoted views. There is no way to professionally debate him.
Anon
Why on earth would you want to play along and spar with him? That’s just going to encourage more inappropriate comments. Don’t engage.
anon
Ugh, gross. I feel like Alison from Ask a Manager has some advice on this topic. You know the relationship best, but I would be very careful with sparring with my boss about compensation. I’d either be stone-cold silent, or remark that “Well, as you know, compensation is based on the job we’re doing and our performance, not lifestyle factors.” Or, “You’re right; I don’t have a family to support, but I have my own financial situation to consider. Like that it’s completely on me to save for retirement and any emergency that might come up. Being single isn’t as much of a windfall as it might seem!” But do it once, then leave it alone. I agree that it’s concerning, but if you’re not willing to escalate, I don’t know that you’re going to change his mind.
Anon
This part: “Like that it’s completely on me to save for retirement and any emergency that might come up” likely wouldn’t help Anon in her cause, because it his view it is also completely on him to save for those things, but not just for himself, for himself times 5. (That doesn’t mean he should be paid more for the same work!, and you could get in the nuances that at least he has a back up in theory (his wife) to pick up the slack if ever needed, but from a trying-to-spar-on-logic standpoint I just don’t think this statement would work).
anon for this
I don’t know that playing along with the complaining will get you anywhere, he clearly thinks that family providers need the money more. In your shoes I would document everything for your records (just in case). When he says that you must have plenty of money, say something vague like “actually, I have a lot of obligations that eat away at my comp, I just prefer not to discuss them” and say, but that actually doesn’t matter, right? Because our comp is based on performance and not family status? I would call him out directly on that last part, if only to make him uncomfortable.
Anon
I think this is the most relevant thing to bring up “but that actually doesn’t matter, right? Because our comp is based on performance and not family status?” Getting in any sort of tit for tat about other obligations will not change his mind on that front.
Monday
+1. I would definitely not start talking about “future kids” or a “fake boyfriend.” At most, you could pointedly say “you really never know someone else’s financial situation.” Just stick to the fact that compensation is based on work performance and value to the business.
This is absolutely still a problem that can’t be ignored! One time I was on a hiring committee that was about to place two internal employees in the same position, coming from the same experience. Two different boomer men made the comment that the male employee probably needed a salary that could support a partner, while the woman did not.
Lilau
I like this. I hate that this guy is somehow justifying paying her less based on her family status. I’m so frustrated on behalf of the op.
I like the idea of a witty remark, however, are we going to convince a white collar middle aged dude with a good job so good that his wife can stay home with four (!) kids that he’s not somehow a victim? I feel like that’s how a lot of men like this see the world now. There was a skit on SNL about baby boomers complaining about taxes on their second homes and I’m reminded of that.
Anon
Is he paying her less though? Or just the spectre hanging out there that it might be the case?
Of Counsel
That was my first thought. The issue is not that he engages in competitive complaining. It is whether he is actually underpaying her for her level of experience and work load. If so, she needs to lead with that – because he might very well make the same remarks to a male associate who was single and had no spouse/children to support. One of the partners in my office whines about his wife and kids spending all his money ALL THE TIME – but he still does everything he can (which mostly involves my bonus) to be sure I am rewarded for my work on his cases.
OP – If you are being underpaid compared to people in your community doing similar work/hours, I suggest you take that to your boss. It is more likely to get you a raise than making him defensive.
Anonymous
“That’s inappropriate and sexist.”
Monday
Of course, but who feels comfortable saying exactly this to their boss?
Anon
Especially the boss who has sole discretion in her pay – and probably her future employment!
I love the snappy comeback but in the real world I would not recommend directing them to your boss unless you are a perfect employee who never makes a mistake or needs any accommodation that is not required by law.
I once worked for a firm where one associate would respond to any comment from our boss (who was not – to put it mildly – sensitive to issues of gender equity and in a relationship with one of his senior associates). But he was actually great to work with – paid well, always understanding of child care issues, would give women associates real substantive work. Frankly he was much better than most of the other partners who said the right things. And when he left the firm to go elsewhere and took his huge book of business with him, guess which associates he took with him? And guess which one ended up being laid off for lack of work?
And OP – I would not suggest a lie that you will then have to maintain. If he remarks make you crazy then a response that he is lucky to have such problems and to have a spouse and children he loves is both honest and might make him stop. “We should all have your problems.”
OP
Thank you! I know he won’t respond well to snappy comments, but something like “I would love to have those problems” plus some a reference to still having a high expense load/other obligations is something he would actually thoughtfully consider. It’s ridiculous I have to tip for and plan for a conversation like this, but I truly appreciate all perspectives. It’s giving me some great ideas on how to deal til I leave. Also, I know that underpaid compared to lower performing peers with families. I have direct info from a married with children male peer/friend who left the firm on what he was getting paid. So this isn’t me just looking for trouble.
Brit
Feel free to borrow my own sob story: My mom has advanced ALZ and her memory care costs $8500/month (plus I pay $1200/month to an outside aide since the in-house care is not adequate). She is otherwise in perfect health at 75 and may last another 20 years based on her family history. Paying for daycare and/or saving for college are a cakewalk compared to elder care.
– Also not single by choice, having been dumped by every man who saw what their life would become if they stuck with me.
OP
I’m sorry, that’s just awful. There is a very strong family history of ALZ in my family as well, and I am only child, so this may very well be my reality too.
Anonymous
I recently moved from a firm to an in-house position. Through conversation, I found out that I failed miserably at negotiating my starting salary and underestimated the leverage I had during negotiations. Two others (both males) with my same position and experience negotiated $15-20K more than I am making. Do I wait until my first annual review to address this? Is there a way to discuss compensation sooner?
Cat
This is tough because you just started… does your state have any pay equity laws?
Anon
Everybody in the US does. https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/equal-pay-act-1963-and-lilly-ledbetter-fair-pay-act-2009
Depending on your company, you could do a light inquiry with HR. That said, if you’re in different specialties there may well be a market based pay difference (hard to find niches can pay more than say run of the mill contracts positions).
Anonymous
OP here – no specialty differences, so there is no market-based reason for the gap. An HR inquiry may be a good option.
Anon
Another option, since you’re in-house legal, talk to your employment lawyers – they may have insight and/or could informally raise the issue as having pay inequity in legal doesn’t help them counsel the rest of the org. They’d also have insight into HR.
anon for this
Ouch, that’s tough. Did you try to negotiate and were rebuffed, or did you not make a big enough ask?
I think it depends in part on how much you are still trying to establish yourself and how in-demand your skills are. If you are confident in your position, I think it’s worth having a conversation with your manager not necessarily to ask for an adjustment, but to say that you have learned that there are inequities in pay and are interested in how the organization ensures pay equity across genders for people with similar experiences. In other words ask for the justification for the inequity — it can’t just be that you didn’t ask correctly, that’s the whole reason women are underpaid as a group and an organization sensitive to that should have policies in place.
Anonymous
I didn’t make a big enough ask. I have been considering having this conversation with my manager because I am confident in my position and marketability but am concerned about overstepping since I started so recently. I also wasn’t sure what types of internal policies companies tend to have in place with respect to gender pay inequities, so this is helpful feedback.
Anone
Antiperspirant/deodorant that is good for sensitive pits and works well? I was using Cashmere Mist and liked it, but now it’s out of stock everywhere (apparently they are experiencing supplier problems). A Sephora salesperson talked me into purchasing a hypoallergenic lavender vanilla deodorant but it does NOT include an antiperspirant, which I need…
emeralds
I used regular degular Dove Sensitive for years–it was the only thing that worked for me. (I use a deodorant without an antiperspirant now.)
Anonymous
+1 for Dove
I had bumps until I started using this
Anon
I love that stuff too, any time I use something new that irritates my pits, I switch to Dove for a bit and I’m good to go.
Anon
I love all the Dove deodorants. My husband even uses one of the women’s unscented products when his manly products are irritating his underarms!
Anon
I like Dry Idea Avanced Dry unscented
Z
Idk if it is good for sensitive pits, but I use Secret Clinical Strength. I get the soft solid in the “stress response” scent, whatever that means. I used to regularly sweat through work clothes (helps that I don’t wear work clothes anymore lol) but I also feel much less sweaty in general.
Anon
Nivea Stress Protect. No rash, no stink even after a full day of court.
VERY Anon
I’m attending a Zoom fairness hearing for a class settlement this morning, just listening in.
I’m on the west coast and I woke up 5 minutes before this hearing. I am not a morning person. I had apparently restarted one of my alarms at 6:50. I swear to god I was muted but apparently not. My alarm is Formation by Beyoncé. It went off. Loudly. Right next to the speaker.
Everyone heard it for like 10 seconds until I realized I wasn’t muted. The judge, who is quite old. The lawyer. The director of a very large federal department. And anyone else.
Please just let me restart today.
Anon
But… you are here! And you are not a cat!
Let s/he who hasn’t f*cked up a Zoom call over the course of this last year cast the first stone. Hope the rest of your day gets better.
VERY Anon
As soon as I got it muted I thought about the cat. Could have been worse.
Anon
You’re not a cat. Or at least that’s what you say. We don’t have all the facts.
pugsnbourbon
You know you that b!tch when you cause all this conversation.
I bet 90% of the people on that hearing have had similar Zoom mishaps over the course of the year. At least you weren’t stuck as a cat!
AFT
On that note, OP it could be so much worse! You may have generated “… and then Beyonce came on…” conversations for your fellow hearing participants, which is kind of legendary.
Ses
lol
Anon
I am observing some virtual local government proceedings and counsel for the government. A petitioner just finished, but did not hang up when she thought she did. She was telling someone that it was a waste of time and stupid, your tax dollars at work, etc.
Muting and hanging up completely is essential!
Nesprin
Omg i am so sorry that happened, and also it’ll be hilarious in 6mos.
HW
If that’s your only Zoom mishap, I think you’re doing great!!
Anon
I attended a virtual graduate class and was not on mute…I was berating my husband for blasting a profane Chris Rock stand-up special when he knew I was attending school. My language was quoting the special as an example of why he had to turn it off and watch something more appropriate, so I was yelling about clear heels and wh*res to a class of 20 and my professor. I was so embarrassed that I logged off and ran to the bathroom to dry heave for a few minutes.
Dear+Summer
LOL!!!
Anon
Love Formation, love Beyoncé, and love this story!!
Anon
Did you know that your blue tooth earbuds can be connected to your computer and your built in computer mic can still work? Neither did I. But that is how I ended up singing to a group of my assembled coworkers waiting for the meeting to start.
AnonATL
Never trust the bluetooth mute!
Anonymous
If it makes you feel any better, a colleague of mine somehow let his phone start blaring rap music with inappropriate lyrics in the middle of an in-person court hearing. No one batted an eye as he scrambled to silence the phone. I was able to torture him with that for years.
Vegetable peeler?
I accidentally threw my vegetable peeler away with the carrot peels last week.
What are your favorite peelers? Mine had a slightly serrated blade, I prefer the I-Shape (slim) over the V-shape . Needs to be dishwasher safe.
Anon
OXO
Lots to Learn
OXO is my favorite for virtually all kitchen tools. I can confirm that their peeler is great.
good luck
+1
The Bed Bath and Beyond employee recommended this one. Best one I have tried.
Lyssa
Agreed, OXO is great.
And OP, mine went missing a year or two ago, and our running theory is that we must have done the same, accidently thrown it away with the carrot peels. It happens!
BB
+1 OXO Y-peeler. I wasn’t a big Y-shaped peeler fan but now I’m totally a convert. If you usually use the straight kind (no idea what they’re called), I highly recommend trying!
anonshmanon
the basic ikea one has been doing its job for over three years for me. My previous ikea one worked even longer, but didn’t make the last move.
pugsnbourbon
I have one similar to this that I really like. I struggle with the ones with handles.
https://www.amazon.com/CocoKool-Vegetable-Durable-Comfortable-Cucumber/dp/B07KKD3CNB/ref=pd_lpo_79_t_1/135-0709423-9667659?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07KKD3CNB&pd_rd_r=d914f14c-ead3-4bca-b394-98375d144608&pd_rd_w=jiKPB&pd_rd_wg=QS8ey&pf_rd_p=337be819-13af-4fb9-8b3e-a5291c097ebb&pf_rd_r=P6VH3JBTMR3S58CABN42&psc=1&refRID=P6VH3JBTMR3S58CABN42
Anon
I know this isn’t super eco conscious but to me the best peeler is one you don’t mind replacing every year. I have had the eco and like it but I’ve also had one I bought at Sur La Table at the register and it was great, and now I have a random one from Amazon.
A sharp edge doesn’t last forever no matter the brand, and a sharp peeler is the best peeler.
Anon
*I have had the OXO, not eco
Anon
I have one from OXO with a serrated blade. I like it for carrots, but I also often peel sweet potatoes, and the peels are constantly getting stuck in the serrated bits, which is sort of annoying.
KS IT Chick
I have a ceramic blade peeler that’s a wonder. The blade hasn’t lost the edge in 12 years of use. It looks like Kyocera now has the Y-peeler version on Amazon for $5.
Diana Barry
Kuhn Rikon
SSJD
Stop peeling? I haven’t peeled carrots in years. To me, it’s just throwing away food. I also no longer peel potatoes or sweet potatoes or parsnips. Sometimes I do have to peel something (e.g. beets), and I have an OXO peeler that I’ve had for 20+ years.
Ses
I’m now team Not Peel, and I’m not sure if you already know this about beets, but if you roast them you can kind of rub the outer skin off (with a paper towel, or a washable rag if you’re a hippy like me) without peeling them.
Anon
I think this really depends on the vegetables themselves. I avoid peeling whenever I can and have certainly been able to avoid peeling sweet potatoes at times, but the ones I get these days are quite dirty and would require tons of scrubbing, and they have a rough scaly texture that’s unappealing. And maybe I let my carrots sit too long in the fridge, but they often have bristles all over them and also seem pretty dirty, which doesn’t always come off just by rinsing.
Anon
I think this is a personal preference thing. I love potato skins, but carrot skins have a weird texture when roasted.
MagicUnicorn
Rada Cutlery’s peeler is my favorite. Had an OXO and hated it, it got dull so quickly and the handle collected water. The Rada one was purchased about 4 years ago to replace the ancient Rada one DH inherited from his grandma when she downsized (peeler itself was fine, but the tip was mangled and sharp from a dishwasher fight).
I have a Kuhn Rikon julienne peeler and like it, would consider a regular peeler from that brand.
Aunt Jamesina
Lindensweden’s Jonas peeler always and forever! Old school design that will last a long time. I bought it after the handle from my OXO peeler fell off.
Anonymous
Victorinox potato peeler. It’s similar to a y, but it’s at an angle. I changed the direction of the blade to peel towards me.
Anonymous
Where should I look for a cheap beach vacation? Flying from NYC area, looking for warm water, decent food, quiet and relaxing. I don’t need a luxury resort but do want to be somewhere with a pool and easy beach access.
Cat
Check out skyscanner to get a rough idea of flight prices – they have an “anywhere!” search option that is ideal for this step of planning.
Anon
The New York Times county-level COVID tracker.
Anonymous
Lol
Jelabi addict
I’m looking for a cocktail dress for the first time in a several years. I have no clue where to look. I’m a 5 ft 2 in heavier set (sz 10-12) south Asian who is 39. Suggestions?
Anonymous
Nordstrom!
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/vince-camuto-asymmetrical-ruched-cocktail-dress/5761453?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FDresses%2FCocktail%20%26%20Party&fashioncolor=Purple&fashionsize=size%2FWomen%3A%20Apparel%2F12%2C%20L%7Csize%2FWomen%3A%20Apparel%2F10%2C%20M&color=678
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/tadashi-shoji-sleeveless-sequin-fit-flare-cocktail-midi-dress/5782787?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FDresses%2FCocktail%20%26%20Party&fashioncolor=Purple&fashionsize=size%2FWomen%3A%20Apparel%2F12%2C%20L%7Csize%2FWomen%3A%20Apparel%2F10%2C%20M&color=655
Anon
Also love this by Tadashi: https://www.tadashishoji.com/bqu20685m-inci-lace-fringe-dress
Anon
Elie Tahari
Anonymous
No advice on the dress (the Tadashi Shoji ones are gorgeous!), but I love your username :)
Jules
This might be a good time to use a Nordstrom personal shopper, if that service is available in your area.
Anon
In case anyone needs a laugh today:
Retin-A has made my complexion worlds better, but it also increases hair growth and skin fragility. So, my new mustache is not wax-able. I attempted to thread it last night, and learned that the sides of the mouth are much less sensitive than is the area directly under the nose. I got a third of the way up either side before the eye-watering pain made me quit for the night. Currently sporting a Charlie Chaplin look.
Tonight I will be applying benzocaine ointment and trying again. So glad I don’t have any meetings today.
Anon
Oh, yes. You can’t wax your eyebrows, either. Ask me how I know. And the green color-correction foundation, also a bad idea when trying to cover up a red layer of baby skin trying to grow back.
pugsnbourbon
Ohhhhh … that’s why I had such a bad reaction to an eyebrow wax a few months ago. I’d never gotten one before and just assumed I had sensitive skin. I do have sensitive skin, I mean, but I didn’t think it was quite so bad.
good luck
I have two words for you.
Tinkle razors!
Signed,
fellow hairy Retin-A user.
Anon
What color is your hair? Because I’m ghostly pale with dark brunette hair, and shaving just leaves black speckles all over my skin. The Retin-A translucence makes the root sooooo visible.
anon
I’m another ghostly pale brunette with ample whiskers and Tinkle razors work great for me. Experiment with shaving dry vs. wet (with facial oil), after steaming, etc. to see if you get better results.
Anon
Yes to the tinkles.
I once had threading while on retin-a. You know what’s less cute than a little mustache? Scabs in the shape of a little mustache.
good luck
hahaha… been there
OP – yes I also have very pale skin a dark brunette hair. Watch a couple of the YouTube videos on the tinkle razors, add them to your weekend routine. Once you figure it out for you, you’ll never go back.
Anon
Honestly, I just get it lasered off. Per my technician’s advice, I stop retinoids 3-4 weeks before laser session, and continue retinoids two weeks after. Once you reach maintenance, you can go once or twice a year for touch ups if you need it.
JTM
My threading lady would pre-emptively hand me a tissue when we’d get started, cause I was guaranteed to start tearing up when she did my upper lip.
anne-on
I am planning to start electrolysis after being vaccinated. Lasers did not work on the ‘lots of pale hair with a dark root’ issue I have on my upper lip. Ugh.
shananananana
Started electrolysis now that I am fully vaccinated due to PCOS on fair skin with dark hair facial hair. 2 sessions in and while I have to keep reminding myself the pain is to have less pain later, it isn’t fun and I do have bumps for about 2 days afterwards. So, short version, happy to be doing it when we are all masked in public.
Anon
In light of previous days’ discussions on flying vacations if vaccinated, this article may be helpful. It’s a reprint of a WaPost article. https://www.seattletimes.com/life/travel/is-driving-still-safer-than-flying-if-youre-vaccinated-this-is-what-6-experts-say/
Curious
I did find this helpful!
Coach Laura
Hi Curious – hope you’re doing well. Looking forward to no rain this weekend, let’s hope.
Curious
Hi Coach Laura! I got my 1st vaccine dose Saturday and baby to be is doing well, so I am very well. But I hadn’t realized that it would be sunny this weekend, and that is just the icing on the cake. How wonderful. How are you?
Curious
Well. At least Saturday, lol.