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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
This black-and-white windowpane skirt from Halogen is such a fun piece for fall and winter. This fall, I’d wear it with bare legs and an eggplant or burgundy top. Once it gets chillier, I’d do black tights, black booties, and black turtleneck.
The skirt is $29.40, marked down from $49, at Nordstrom and comes in sizes 1X–3X. It’s also available in straight sizes (lucky sizes only).
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Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Go for it
Oh my, way way back I had windowpane pleated trousers that I wore with flourish!
Ellen
I feel like Reese Witherspoon when I put on my plaid pencil skirt! Of course, she is more svelte then I am but I still attract more then a few men when I walk to work with a skirt on. I think we should all continue to dress up even if we are not the ideal woman for all men, we are still pretty darn good, and alot better then the men who judge us!
Anon
One of my friends bought a windowpane skirt back then, loved it so much she went back and bought the matching blazer. Walked into a meeting wearing the suit, a senior exec glanced at her and said “I used to have a couch like that.”
Go for it
I’m dying :))
Anonymous
I also had a plaid pencil skirt when I was a freshman @ Louisiana State, and I wore it until the seat wore out!
Anon
I’m hoping to counter an offer soon, with the usual justifications (BLS and industry data, my experience level, etc.). The number the recruiter gave is a bit lower than I was expecting, and one of her justifications included several (generous, based on her description) benefits that I will never use. Is it appropriate to bring that part up? She was really selling the parental benefits (I’m childfree and sterilized) and the tuition reimbursement (I have a terminal master’s degree). I’m in tech, if that matters.
Anonymous
I’d bring it up. I’ve used my childfree status as a bargaining chip before, that level of reliability is valuable to an employer. Even my DH has used his childfree status to help his case for a special assignment.
Anon
Gross. And illegal.
Anon
Gross, illegal, and any company that goes for that is likely to not GAF if you get cancer. And might be sexist to boot, because expecting that women’s bodies will be like men’s bodies is not exactly supportive of women.
Anon
Right. Even if you think discriminating against parents (moms, let’s be real) is cool, it’s going to bite you in the a$$ when you develop a chronic health condition or have an elderly parent who needs care or anything else in your personal life that impacts your ability to devote everything you have to your job. Parenting young kids is a relatively short phase of life and very few people go their whole careers without something major in their personal life taking up a lot of their non-work hours. A company like this will be a horrible place to work when that happens.
Anon
It’s not actually illegal, simmer down, they already made her the offer and it’s not based on her status. She’s free to bring it up. I just would expect it to work because benefits are bulk purchased and it doesn’t matter if she uses them. Better to demonstrate market, current salary potential, counter with numbers not a fact they don’t care about.
Anon
*would not
Anon
If a company believes non-parents are more reliable than parents, there’s no way they’re not discriminating against pregnant women in hiring. (And likely women of child-bearing age in general, since we all know parental status is held against women much more than men.) It may not be illegal in this instance, but it’s absolutely evidence of illegal hiring practices.
Anon
There is nothing here that suggests this company thinks that way. And people confuse what employees are allowed to do with what employers cannot do.
Anon
I’m not saying the poster’s actions are illegal. Employees and candidates can volunteer anything they want. I’m suggesting her company’s actions are illegal. Hiring or promoting child free employees because of perceived “reliability” on account of nothing more than their child free status is discriminatory. Parents are not a protected class federally, but pregnant women are, and it’s likely this is impacting how they assess men v. women generally since we all know “parenthood” in this context really means motherhood and parenthood isn’t held against fathers to the same degree it’s held against mothers. So there’s likely also a sex discrimination issue here. Some states also have laws that prohibit discrimination against parents.
Anonymous
Anon@ 10:13, I have a question about that. If an individual interviewing brings up parental status, can the employer then discuss it or is it still off limits? I just don’t address the kids part even if an interviewee brings kids up.
Anonymous
She is asking the employer to do something discriminatory and illegal, which is to pay her more because she doesn’t have children.
Anonymous
Illegal? It’s only illegal for a potential employer to ask, a candidate is able to freely offer that information if they want.
Anon
Is it illegal to ask? I thought it was just illegal to discriminate, and asking opens up the employer to liabilities.
LaurenB
Wouldn’t the illegality be the company asking for that info, not you offering it?
anon
So you tell employers that you’re a better employee because you don’t have children? And you’re proud of that?
pugsnbourbon
Yeah, and “even my DH has used his childfree status for a special assignment” is … real gross. How did that even go? “Hey boss, lemme take that travel-heavy project – I don’t have any pesky kids weighing me down, y’know? Kate’s got a toddler and Brandon’s coaching t-ball, so let’s just not even give them a shot.”
Anon
I honestly don’t think that’s a bargaining chip. Maybe they would have given you more money anyway? It’s pretty common. If anything it makes you sound out of touch with professional norms to bring that up as a reason they should pay you more. She should ask for more for not for that reason.
Anonymous
If a candidate made the argument that OP is proposing (I deserve more money because I am childless), I would be concerned that she would be a liability risk as an employee and would rescind the offer. Especially if it were a supervisory or management position.
Anon
+1 someone that thinks that way can’t go anywhere near hiring/promotion or it’s a liability for the company.
Walnut
+1 I would also rescind the offer
Anon
That’s not even close to what she’s saying. This group loves to maliciously misinterpret and sealion.
Anon
Huh? That is literally what the Anon at 8:46 said – that she used her child free status as a “bargaining chip” (presumably for money/influence) because child free people are inherently more reliable. Someone who thinks that way is a liability to the company because if that individual has any supervisory responsibility the company is opening itself up to a potential discrimination lawsuit from parents who weren’t hired or promoted. None of this is maliciously twisting someone’s words.
Anon
Discriminating on the basis of family status is illegal in many states. If Anonymous’s husband got a special work assignment because he doesn’t have children, that would be illegal in many states. (but it’s unclear whether her DH’s company gave the assignment on that basis)
Go for it
Sure you can bring those up, they gave real $ value
Anonymous
I agree. If you’re single, you will not have the pull of kids to get you out of work or other activities that preclude you from staying late (once you’re back in the office). As a result, you should not hesitate to bring this up. I know that people who have kids are dedicated, no one is denying this, but they are also dedicated to their kids, and given the choice, the kids do (and should) come first.
But for those without kids, they should not be penalized, but rewarded, if they carry the team as they often do. So I do not know the legal issues but think that as long as it’s legal, the company should recognize this, and the only way they can do it is thru the paycheck for hours worked.
Anon
I think it’s a little weird to bring that up. Most companies have some benefits that most employees will never use.
anon
But if it was specifically brought up to OP as bargaining chips to justify a lower salary, then it’s appropriate to counter that actually, it’s irrelevant to OP so she’s not getting any benefits for a lower salary.
Anon
When I was very young and very healthy, I had Cadillac-level health insurance. And tons of sick leave. Part of the reason that the math worked was that there were tons of young and healthy people used for rating all employees. It was only beneficial for the unhealthy and unlucky. But to provide that benefit for anyone, they had to provide it to everyone. Anyone can be unlucky.
And also: women know how many kids that they have. Men have a general idea. I did estate litigation once and we drafted wills we wrote to account for this.
Anon
I think you have to be really careful about what you say, because there’s the potential to very quickly sound out of touch about how the professional world works. There are always benefits that certain employees aren’t going to use.
Anon
I agree – what she’s doing could more be framed as a response to the employer trying to lowball her with promises of benefits. She could just say, “The offer seemed low compared to market rates, and you seemed to counter this with a generous benefit package. Unfortunately, many of these won’t apply in my situation”
Anonymous
I think it’s completely fair. The benefit load at many companies is 30% or more. My staffing budget for a department of mid levels included 45% load because of bonus + benefits.
Anon
Most of that is insurance, no? Like anyone can be in a car accident or have a heart attack (even women!) or stoke or COVID complications.
Anonymous
Benefits are insurance (health/life/dental/disability/vision), some fudge factor for ST/LTD, various transit passes, bonus, etc.
I’m not saying that OP can say “I don’t have kids so hire me.” but “I won’t be using the company insurance and have no use for any kind of cell phone or transit pass or education credits” is a reasonable statement.
Anonymous
It is all dollars and cents @ HR these days. Give benefits that don’t cost anything and cheeze down on those that do cost.
Anon
We have adoption benefits, which I’m unlikely to use. I haven’t asked my workplace to counteract that with reducing my co-pays or increasing my 401k match.
Honestly, we should just all be paid in $ if it weren’t for bulk buying helping lower insurance costs.
anon
I think it’s fair to note that many of their big-ticket benefits aren’t things you are going to use. I probably wouldn’t go extensively into the details of why, for a range of reasons (among others, that many people have personal biases against childfree individuals, especially childfree women), but if she raises those benefits again in the counteroffer discussion, you can just state that they are not applicable for you and thus don’t justify accepting a lower salary than what you’re looking for.
Anon
It’s the whole benefits package that has value, and the recruiter is pointing out just some of the benefits. There are always going to be benefits you won’t use, so that is not a reason for a company to pay you more money, if you are not going to use certain benefits. This is a stupid reason to ask them to pay you more.
Anonymous
+1. You can say whatever you want, but the recruiter will likely think it’s silly. My company is one of the few in the US that covers IVF. It’s mentioned to every applicant as a reason why our benefits’ package is better than our competitors, even though probably 98% of employees will never use it. If someone said “I don’t want kids [or already have kids] so I won’t be using the IVF coverage, and you should pay me more” I’m pretty sure the recruiter would just laugh. If you deserve a higher salary because of your skills and experience, use that to negotiate more money. But not using one or two benefits in a large benefits package is not a good reason for them to pay you more, especially because in many situations the company’s benefit costs are mostly sunk costs and they won’t get money back because you don’t use them.
Anonymous
But it is a good reason to say to a recruiter that this employer’s benefit package is not enough to make her interested in accepting an offer at a lower salary. For another candidate, perhaps it would be. If they want to hire her, they will have to offer her more in salary. If they can’t afford to do that because they put their money into benefits that will appeal to other candidates, but not this one, they the candidate and the company are not a match.
Anon
That’s a very different statement than “I’m not using Benefit X and Benefit Y so that should translate to a higher salary.”
Anonymous
It is different, and it is more in line with what the OP proposed she might do. The statement you presented is a red herring thrown in by a subsequent commenter.
Anonymous
I agree this is the way to frame it.
Anon
Agree. It’ll also make you sound inexperienced and like you don’t know how to negotiate. Ask for more money based on your qualifications.
EB
I think you can mention this in the sense of “this isn’t a huge pull for me, I really care about the salary figure” as part of your explanation to her of your counter. Then you’re just providing her information about your motivations that will help the company make a decision on your counter. But I would be careful of framing it as though you think that just because you aren’t using the benefits, that your salary should be proportionally increased, because that would indicate a lack of understanding as to how benefits work, which may hurt your case for a higher salary.
Anon
Whatever you do don’t use the word sterilized!!
Anonymous
That word is one reason I think this post is fake.
Anonymous
I use that word too. No one knows what a tubal ligation is and “tubes tied” is just so cringey I won’t say it.
Anon
LOL what a weird comment.
Burlington, VT recommendations?
Good morning!
I’m heading to Burlington, VT next week so teen daughter can tour UVM. We’re staying downtown on Main Street and I’ve rented a car. Looking for suggestions on vegetarian restaurants and places to hike within a short drive and would be grateful for any other tips.
Thanks and happy Friday!
Hallee
Not exactly what you asked, but I was just there and did a sail on Lake Champlain with Whistling Man Schooner Co and highly recommend. It was a highlight of our trip!
Anonymous
Aw man we were supposed to meet my in-laws in Burlington later this month but canceled because of the Delta variant and unvaxxed kids, and this is making me sad we didn’t get to go.
Anon
OH man, you can basically eat… anywhere! I would suggest the Farmhouse taproom (really delicious food) and A Single Pebble which is a nicer Asian influenced restaurant. Their Mock Eel (made of mushrooms) is something I dream about. For breakfast, Pennycluse is delicious. All of these are in the downtown/Church street area and if you’re staying on Main Street, you’ll likely be at the bottom of the hill and they’re right in the neighborhood.
Good hikes? A fabulous mountain is Camel’s Hump and it’s really an iconic Vermont hike. Closer in, there are tons of nice hikes.
Anon
Just did Camel’s Hump a month ago – it’s a workout but worth it for the views. There are some pretty and very secluded spots at Preston Pond trail. Both about 30-40 minutes from Burlington.
The bicycle rentals from Local Motion along Lake Champlain were a hit with my family.
Anonymous
LOVE those reccs, Single Pebble is amazing (Mock Eel is what Alton Brown recommends from ‘best thing i ever ate’). Also consider Hen of the Wood for upscale farm to table. American Flatbread is great pizza. I adore the skinny pancake for crepes, but if you’re flying out just grab them in the airport as you wait for your plane trip home :).
Anonymous
There’s a Sarabeth breakfast place on the commons that serves great veggie omlettes!
anon
Cute! I love windowpane prints. If anyone has found a good work-appropriate top in this pattern, I’m all ears!
The Lone Ranger
Not a black/white one, but I have this: https://www.macys.com/shop/product/barbour-balmory-printed-tie-top?ID=12070298&RVI=PDP_3&tdp=cm_choiceId~z12070298~xcm_pos~zPos3
pugsnbourbon
Here’s one at Nordstrom Rack: https://www.nordstromrack.com/s/pleione-utility-blouse/6290394?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&color=101
Also Anon
This looks awesome! I haven’t purchased a Frugal Fridays pick in a while – well, I haven’t bought any work clothes lately, because of the obvious reasons – and who knows when I’ll be back in an office, but I couldn’t pass this up.
Anon
For those of you with kids in school who are too young to be vaccinated, what are you doing with socializing with friends outside of school? I feel like I don’t want a house of kids (who all eventually become unmasked, as who does not eventually get a snack) but I don’t want to halt completely. Part is that eating lunch at school each day is a far bigger risk and part is that our vax rates are so low and spread is so high, it just might be inevitable. We have tried to keep kids outside but sometimes they just want to come in and play minecraft.
Last year our schools didn’t open until March and then they were closing half the time or having subs, so we didn’t stop socializing mainly outside with a small group of friends, but I’m just wondering what to pivot to since schools are open now and I want that to continue.
anon
Le sigh. I have no idea. We’re still able to be outdoors, so I’m leaning heavily on that and not hosting indoor playdates with families I don’t know well (i.e., know that at least the parents are vaccinated). I feel like my child is getting enough socialization at school and at her before/after school program, so I don’t feel especially compelled to take on further risks.
anon
Similar – we’ve been doing masks on indoors for the one family we don’t know well/don’t go to school with and otherwise it’s been all families we know are fully vaxxed if old enough. Lucky to live in a highly complaint area. I figure that they are eating lunch together unmasked anyway. We do try to keep the windows open (although, smoke ?).
Anonymous
I’m just keeping it small. One friend sure. 5 friends no.
Anonymous
We use the local green space to meet up and let the kids bike/play etc or do playground meet ups. Not doing indoor playdates. It’s more exposure because DH and I are not directly exposed to the other kids at school.
anon
We have a table and chairs in a shady spot and do Minecraft playdates outside and masked. Works beautifully!
Anon
We see classmates outside only for now, and the kids generally wear masks. I’m not sure what we’ll do in November/December when it gets too cold to socialize outside. My daughter’s best friend’s family has recently all had Delta Covid (despite parents being fully vaxxed) so we’ll probably do indoor play dates with them but not others. Pediatric vaccines can’t get here soon enough.
No Face
I feel that last sentence in my soul. I want vaccines for kids!
No Face
School/daycare is enough socialization for now. This is the biggest class for my oldest, and the only group care my pandemic toddler has ever experienced, so for my kids this is a big jump in socializing. My husband and I socialize normally with other fully vaccinated people without our kids, and we go to the office.
In the winter, I think we will socialize indoors with families with vaccinated parents, just one family at a time. So not a big party with tons of kids, just our family and one other family. It is a risk, but I can’t spend another dark, cold winter in my living room with sad kids.
Anon
+1 to only with kids who have vaccinated parents.
Anon
I don’t know. In our city, Catholic schools were open last year, so many of my kid’s BFFs flocked to them. They only see each other outside of school. And even though our city mandates masks in schools, the Catholic schools are generally refusing, even with a delta surge, even with kids too young to be vaxxed (so, many livid parents are making noise about coming back to public schools), so I’m hopeful that kids may reunite during the school day eventually, but socializing with kids from these schools is really concerning to me right now (so grateful we have received no invitations and we have not offered any).
Anon
Wow I’m curious what city you’re in. I’m in NYC and we moved to Catholic school last year because they were open last year — but they were and continue to be very, very cautious, following all CDC guidelines and beyond. They head of the schools sent out an email over the summer encouraging parents and teens to get vaccinated. If anything, it’s some of the parents that are complaining that the school was too strict. So sorry that you have the reverse situation!
Anon
Charlotte
Midwest Anon
My catholic school experience aligns with anon at 12:45 and I’m in the midwest. Catholic schools are masked and pushing vaccines in all messaging, while public schools are not.
Anon
We’re vaccinated and low risk, and the risk to healthy kids is very small. I’m aware that this is not entirely risk-free, but nothing I’ve seen makes me think these risks are different from the normal risks of everyday life. My kids play freely, and that’s definitely the norm among neighbors and friends.
Anon
I get that. I totally get that. And yet, I feel like there is a real risk that our schools will panic at some point and shut down again and our ERs are full, so I feel like I need to hold back (even though we are vaxed and our crowd is generally vaxed and we’d get our kids shots in a heartbeat once we get the greenlight). I am so torn. Last year, we dialed it back to zero. This year, when things are worse, I feel like I held off too much before and would take on some risk so my kids see friends that they are dearly missing. For us, these are the oldest unvaxxed kids, ours is 11 but with a sprinkling of 12 year old kids who were red-shirted or are naturally older.
Anon
Flu has never overwhelmed pediatric ICUs the way Covid is currently in the states with high community spread.
Also my main concern is the complications that could appear years or decades down the road. I’m aware the odds my child will die from acute Covid even before vaccines are very low, but the studies about brain damage and loss of cognitive abilities in Covid survivors are terrifying. And it’s not unprecedented with viruses at all – measles and SSPE, chicken pox and shingles, the Parkinson’s-like illness among Spanish Flu survivors …. No one knows what the equivalent will be for Covid.
Anonymous
The possible impact on the brain is definitely scary and nothing like the flu. I get that it’s hard for people to acknowledge that but we kind of have to. I know a handful of people who are still struggling with brain fog and other cognitive issues (forgetfulness, etc.) months after infection.
Anon
I realize no one can say with certainty that there aren’t long-term risks, but you could say that for so many other things as well. There doesn’t seem to be evidence that some great unknown later risk is likely. Disabling accidents are rare, but a real risk, too, but one we have to live with. Personally, the idea of kids being deprived of so much socialization for what is now years of their childhood strikes me as a much bigger risk. We don’t understand the long-term effects of that at all.
Anon
You sound like either you haven’t been following the research at all, or your standard for evidence is time travel to the future. There’s a lot of concern over how the effects we’re already seeing now will play out long term, and there are too many survivors already struggling with autonomic dysfunction (including pediatric).
Anon
The virus risks are not hypothetical though, there’s a lot of evidence that even mild Covid causes serious damage to the brain. I agree that school closures were terrible for kids and had serious impacts on mental health and development that need to be weighed against the risk of the virus, but the OP’s question was about playdates, not sending your kids to school. I’m sure it depends on the ages of your kids and their individual personalities, but with a preschooler I feel that full-time school is plenty of socialization and I’m fine with avoiding playdates and extracurricular activities until she can get vaccinated. It’s not forever, just until there’s a vaccine for kids, which is at this point almost certainly less than 6 months away.
Curious
Are pediatric ICUs truly overwhelmed with COVID cases? Is this highly specific to certain cities? And are these kids hospitalized with COVID or b/c of COVID? Just trying to get clarity, please no attacks.
Anon
RSV is completely out of control. My son and half the kids in his daycare class got it in July; one kid went to the ICU. Now the other half of the class is getting it. Kiddo’s MD said that the RSV cases are the highest he’s ever seen.
The kids are in the hospital “with” COVID.
SC
In New Orleans, the message from Children’s Hospital in August was that the pediatric ICUs were full of kids who were hospitalized because of Covid. They specifically said that many of their pediatric ICU patients were healthy before getting Covid. The lead physician said that his opinion is that the delta variant is more virulent and dangerous in kids, and the hospital is one of 8 enrolled in research to study the data on that. They did not give information on the age ranges of the hospitalized kids.
Here’s a link to the article. https://www.nola.com/news/coronavirus/article_2422e186-fb90-11eb-98fe-33d43641f2d5.html
We also had RSV go around this summer, but the messaging from the pediatric doctors is that the increase in ICU cases is due to the delta variant.
Anon
It’s true that RSV is a factor (whenever you have two viruses surging at once that’s obviously worse than either of them alone) but the previous poster who said all kids are there ‘with’ Covid not because of Covid is wrong. RSV almost never hospitalizes healthy children over the age of 2. So if a 5 year old or a 9 year old or a 14 year old is hospitalized with RSV + Covid, you can’t blame RSV alone. That child would almost certainly not be hospitalized but for Covid.
The thing is there aren’t many pediatric ICU beds in general, because kids aren’t supposed to get seriously ill. So even relatively small increases in pediatric ICU bed use can strain hospitals. It’s a very different situation than with adults.
Curious
Hey just FYI, I’m a regular poster who uses the name Curious — you might want to grab a different handle! (“Not THAT curious, the other curious”, lol)
Midwest Anon
Was just in the ER at our pediatric hospital this week. Chatting with doctors/nurses, RSV is the culprit in my Midwest city. My 2.5 year old is on his second round in four months (though not hospitalized for either.)
Anon
COVID isn’t overwhelming the hospitals; RSV is.
Anon
I think with peds, it varies, but a good chunk of admissions are COVID.
For adults, COVID is getting non-COVID cases diverted and denied timely care (if you go to the ER, you don’t want to stay 48 hours there but you may). I wouldn’t want to be a person who gets into a car crash or has a heart attack or needs a kidney right now, regardless of age.
Anon
Yep, this. I can understand that others have lower risk tolerance, but the risk to kids is lower than it is for many vaccinated adults. Additionally, there have recently been many studies that talk about people who say they have “long covid”…actually never had COVID.
Anon
I would be careful with those studies. A lot of patients were presumed to have COVID at a time when tests were being saved for the sickest patients. It would be pretty difficult to prove they never had COVID long after the antibodies no longer appear. It would be pretty rotten to deny somebody proper testing because of rationing and then try to cut them off from care later on the basis of absent test results… but patients with post-viral syndromes from past viruses can attest that our existing healthcare systems tend to want to pretend away chronic post-viral syndromes in general.
Anon
My kids are in person elementary school in the Chicago suburbs, still too young to get vaxxed. The last year was not good for mental health, so we’re trying to balance that with physical health. We were in a pod with one other family for that first summer/fall, and then didn’t see anyone or do any activities during the winter, which was really rough on a family full of extroverts who are always on the go. We can’t do that again, so we’re trying to be a little more open while still being safe.
For now, they can play with friends outside, and are in outdoor sports (non-travel) this fall. Indoors unmasked is limited to one friend/ family at a time, and only two nights a week. So they can play with neighborhood friends in the street, but only ask for one friend over for dinner or movie or video games – they each get one friend per week essentially.
That is hopefully cutting down on exposure in case someone is positive. Most of their friends seem to have similar policies where large groups are outside and indoor is only for one friend at a time. Once we get into the brutal winter and can’t be outside, we’ll reassess based on recommendations and local factors, but we’ll find a way to encourage socialization and physical activity for all of us.
Anonymous
My kids are all <12. We've been doing outdoor playdates all summer with friends. We've allowed indoor playdates with a select few close friends, and only when the weather is crummy. my kids play outdoor sports unmasked.
My kids are in elem where they are masked inside and unmasked at lunch and outside. I try and keep my kids' playdates to those kids in their classes to minimize different cohorts but it's not always possible.
I would be fine letting a couple kids inside to play video games. If you really want to keep things outside, can you set up a projector or TV setup in the garage or screened in porch? Or just keep it to a core group so if you have to isolate you aren't calling two dozen families?
Anon
outdoors only. while yes, kids are generally low risk, i multiple vaccinated people now who’ve had breakthrough infections and have either gotten it from their kids or spread it to their kids. i also want to keep my kids in school. while i fully believe that exposed kids should quarantine for two weeks, i don’t want to have to quarantine bc of a potential exposure. so to me the risk of a potential quarantine outweighs just about everything else.
Anonymous
We are the same. The 2 week quarantine is enough to limit everything for us to outdoors. We spend our risk budget on in person masked school. Last year schools here were only in person 2 days/week for the second half of the year, virtual for everything else. We figure school in person 5 days per week, and fall outdoor soccer are enough socialization (2nd and 4 th grade).
Anonymous
Honestly we are doing only outdoor socializing and since the kids don’t distance well they are wearing masks. We are doing everything we can outside of school to keep school open.
This is going to be horrible once it starts raining here for the fall (PNW) but we are in a terrible surge right now. I work in healthcare and it’s a really bad situation. I’m willing to do almost anything to get us through this surge with school open.
TX Science
My 9yo just started back again at school this week after 2 weeks out with Covid – thanks Texas. We mask in public. We have been keeping to just our family unit for socializing since Delta started surging, and kiddo never goes into any stores in public, etc. We are vaccinated. We got very mild breakthrough infections, and kiddo still got Covid. I post only to say that even when we are conscientious about limiting our exposure, Delta + school = lots of sick kids. Thankfully kiddo had a high fever for just a few days, but seems to be past it now. I’m not sure what I would have done differently, how I would have limited who he came into contact with. I don’t think there’s a good answer.
Anon
Did you give it to him or vice versa? DH and I are doing nothing indoors ourselves, like we don’t even go into the grocery store and won’t until our kid can be vaccinated. That’s easier for us than forcing our kid to give up school and outdoor playdates, though I realize it doesn’t take the risk to zero since many kids get it at school. I’m glad your kiddo is on the mend.
anon
I am looking tired and haggard. Especially around the eyes. And my lips are ghostly pale when I don’t have product on. Age 41, for reference. I have a decent skincare routine already. Any thoughts on specific makeup colors or textures that would help brighten me up? I wear makeup already, but perhaps I need a refresh. For reference, I have a light/medium complexion, blue eyes, brown hair with highlights and lowlights.
Please no suggestions for botox or fillers or whatever else. I am super not interested in starting intensive beauty treatments.
Also, I guess it really is a thing that neutrals can wash us out more as we get older. I feel like I have to wear color in order to HAVE color. Which is sort of at odds with my desire to simplify my wardrobe.
pugsnbourbon
I am reaching for power lipstick more and more. I’m back in the office and fluorescent lights wash me tf out. My favorite red right now is Maybelline Red For Me – it’s matte and lasts all day without drying.
A cream blush would probably help, too, and defining your brows would add contrast to your face. Someone else might have recs for bronzer but I’m so pale that even the lightest shades just look like dirt on me.
Anon
How are your brows? If they are sparse (one of mine is, oddly, the other is fine), start there maybe?
anon
They don’t look sparse to me, but perhaps I could stand to define them more.
Anon
Sparse brow/s often thyroid related fwiw
No Face
Concealer and bold lipstick make a big difference for me. My coloring is absolutely nothing like yours, so will stay away from specific product recommendations.
Go for it
You can keep the minimalist wardrobe, add scarves in colors that bring you out.
No Face
This is a good point. I am really into statement earrings, bold lipsticks, and scarves when seasonably appropriate.
In-House in Houston
No advice just commiseration. I recently noticed that I have huge bags under my eyes that won’t go away. I mistakenly thought the bags went away during the day after I fully woke up, but I caught a glimpse of myself in a mirror mid-afternoon a few months ago and was horrified how bad they were. I tried these gel pads that you put in the freezer but they don’t work. I’ve used eye cream for 20+ years to combat lines/wrinkles which I think has worked; but it hasn’t helped the bags at all! I just bought some $20 eye cream from Amazon that has caffeine in it and am going to give that a try. The reviews on it are pretty good but they all say it takes a while. I’ve used $150 eye cream and drug store eye cream and none of them work on puffiness. Does anyone have anything that has worked for them? I’m willing to do something surgical if it really works. TIA ladies!
Sunshine71
I have some small bags and dark undereye circles too. According to my normal derm, my esthetician, and now a cosmetic derm/plastic surgeon, the bags I have are fat deposits and nothing will get rid of them except surgery. And I’m a little hesitant to do that since my face will likely lose some fat as I age; I’m 40. The Ordinary’s caffeine serum is nice but hasn’t helped. The blueberry Greek Yogurt cream from Nature Republic has helped brighten a little but it doesn’t touch the bags.
Anon
I have now 2 dark lines under each eye?! I am a caregiver plus doing some construction and have a job that’s very stressful with a boss that sidelines me.
Anonymous
I am a similar age and coloring and I have a similar experience. Two things that have helped a bit… find the colors that look really good on you and wear those. There is a particular shade of blue that is very flattering on me.
I feel like my natural coloring is also faded and adding a brow coloring (swipes on like mascara) helps to make me look more alive.
Anon
From a fellow 41-year-old—I encourage you to rethink your appearance. Millions of dollars go into making us feel like a normal 41-year-old face looks old or unacceptable. I’m sure you look great.
Anon
Ugh, I knew there was going to be an answer like this. She didn’t ask for that, she’s asking for specific recommendations, can’t you just let her live her life the way she wants to without telling her it’s the wrong way?
Ses
I like that there are occasional answers like this. It may not answer the direct query, but a lot of people are already doing that. This provides a bit of perspective, like – not everyone sees you on that zoom and thinks you’re haggard.
Anon
I am not sure about this. Millions of dollars go into encouraging everyone else to feel like a normal 41 year old face looks old, haggard, or unacceptable too. It’s not like it’s only 40 year olds who see all this messaging.
Anon
I’m a few years older than you, similar coloring and I love the glossier lipsticks – they have a plum that’s nicely brightening. I know you said no big ticket stuff, but I highlight my hair regularly (blonder and brighter around my face), get Botox, get my brows professionally done and occasionally get lash extensions that are natural but definitely extra, and I feel like a million bucks. There’s a lot to grooming keeping the haggard feeling away as you age. I know some lean into the grey, but that’s not and will never be me.
Anonymous
Do a face brightening mask at least once a week – Sunday Riley Good Genes or the like.
I find highlighter on my face and around my eyes makes a big difference – Benefit has a lot of nice soft pink ones but Glossier is nice also.
If you’re already dying your hair maybe talk it over with your stylist — you may want to change up the tone or mix of high/low lights.
Anonymous
Have you tried color analysis? I am similar in age with cool-toned pale skin, blue eyes, and brown hair. This makes me a Winter (cool tone, high contrast) I look like death warmed over in pastels, tan, warm tones, and soft or small prints. I look vibrant in black, navy, and white solids.
anon
I seem to be more of a soft summer than winter. I lack contrast!
Anonymous
Then I would focus on soft cool tones. No black (too harsh) or tan (too warm) neutrals. Navy maybe, or icy pastels.
Anonymous
And I think you are on the right track with more color. If you are a minimalist like me who is color-averse, you can confine yourself to shades of one color that are flattering to maintain a signature look—like navy, royal blue, sky blue, icy blue.
anon
Similar coloring and age, and I too am noticing the tired eyes and lack of natural lip color. I don’t wear makeup regularly. Two things that improve on the washed-out look for me, in addition to wearing colorful tops, are lighting and physical activity. Lighting is kind of obvious but takes some work to figure out. I’ve found that removing the lightbulbs from the fluorescent light directly above me, and adding floor and table lamps has helped a lot. Also helping a lot – getting outside to take a walk, especially when I notice the lack of color in my lips. It’s like a sign that I need to get moving in some way. If a walk isn’t possible, stretches or just touching my toes does something, along with the old-timey tactics of pressing my lips together (hard) and pinching my cheeks (gently) for some color.
Anon
How are your teeth? I am much happier with my appearance when my teeth are whiter so I use Crest white strips every year or so.
Anon
I’m 56 and I don’t think applying color around the eyes really helps, though I do think it’s good to have a blush with some color and not just bronzer. I like cream blushes because they stay put longer. I agree with others that wearing some color on your lips is also key for things like zoom meetings.
For around the eyes, concealer/under eye products with a little light reflecting quality create an illusion of youthful lift.
Brows are important – they frame the face. Use some brow gel or pencil to fill them in.
I have pretty much given up on eyeliner but I will use a kohl type pencil on my upper lash line before a meeting or night out (not that I have many nights out lately!)
Anonymous
Same, girl. Things that help:
1) Botox. It is so low maintenance – it’s like a 20 minute appointment three times a year.
2) Lipstick. For me, pinks and reds are really helpful and brighten my whole face.
3) Blush. I need color in my cheeks.
4) A haircut that layers around my face. I need bounce and lift in my hair; when it gets too long, it just drags me down.
5) Laura Mercier Caviar eye crayon. I use a light color that just gives my eyes some lift and definition, as opposed to heavy eye shadows.
6) Brows. You want your brows to create contrast and frame your eyes.
Good luck. Make-up as we age is a whole new ball game!
K
If your lips are looking more pale than usual you might want to get checked for anemia or another vitamin deficiency.
Anonymous
I have been trying to get a particular government job for a while and a vacancy finally opened in my city. I live somewhere small and there are not many such vacancies. The person who last had the job was someone I viewed as a mentor. He was clear with me he had nothing to do with his replacement being hired. I am on good terms with him still and I don’t believe he black listed me.
Anyway, I have always covered the position as a contract worker when he is on vacation or absent or when they had additional work. While he was in the process of retiring I covered the position 22 days out of 30.
I applied for the job and never heard back. I never received an interview or any response. I know that other people have received responses and are moving ahead with the selection process.
Today they sent me another one month contract covering the position. I’m honestly just stunned that they think so lowly of me I’m not considered for a full time job but they continue to send me a huge amount of contract work. The contract work pays well and I want it to continue even if I have no shot at a full time job.
Any thoughts? Should I just do nothing?
Anonymous
Contact wherever you applied and ask for feedback on your application?
Anon
I’m sorry, that’s a miserable situation. Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s much you can do if you want to keep doing contract work, it’s just the reality of being in a very competitive field. I’m in academia where the situation is very similar- you get hundreds of applicants for one job and there are often internal people who don’t even get interviews, but it doesn’t mean they’re bad at their jobs, just that they’re not the very very best (by whatever criteria they’ve set, which are often somewhat biased and may be different for temp and full time jobs). It’s really hard, but try not to assume this means they hate you.
Anon
I’m a little surprised by the replies below saying to check with the hiring manager- at my state university that would come off very, very badly. They’re very rigorous about following fair hiring practices and trying to remove implicit biases (whether they’re successful is another matter), and interference in that would look bad. My PhD advisor has refused to write me letters for search committees he’s on and it’s standard for people who know the applicant to recuse themselves from discussion. Obviously different types of government are different and you should do what’s common in your field, but just want to make clear that this can backfire if done in the wrong place!
anonshmanon
Once following up with someone who is hiring you as a contractor for the very same job, making sure that they know that you applied, is not going to come across as steamrolling their fair hiring practices. The manager is not even obliged to respond or give OP a leg up, it’s a simple FYI.
Most of the obligation to to follow correct procedure is on the hiring manager, the candidates can’t possibly know about internal hiring practices.
Anon
At my husband’s agency they basically only hire from within. Trying to get a job if you don’t already work for the government is very tough, even with points in your favor. They may not be getting her resume to even know she’s interested.
Anon
Talk to the hiring manager? Don’t rely on the application process. Yours could have gotten lost, the recruiter may not know you’re doing the job, there’s a thousand reasons. Networking and expressing your genuine interest are critical here. So is hitting it out of the park while you’re covering the role. Make your potential coworkers advocates for you because you’re awesome to work with.
No Face
Government hiring is usually very formal and regimented. The people you work with at the department may not have even known that you applied. Reach out to people you know ASAP to tell them that you submitted your resume for the position so that they can contact the folks who are selected resumes for interviews.
When I applied for a government job recently, I reached out to my contact. He could make sure that my resume was one of the resumes in front of the hiring committee. The committee selected me for an interview and ultimately I got the offer. (I chose a firm job instead though).
Speak up!
Agree with this. Definitely reach out!!!
Allie
This! You needed to have flagged your resume for review.
Duchess
Agreed. I work for the Federal government and the other advice I would add is that your resume may not be tailored for government jobs. Ours all go through USAJobs and the first round of selections for interviews are determined by a computer, so if you don’t have the correct keywords in your resume, you aren’t making the cut. Do not plagiarize the job listing, but if certain words are repeated in there, they better be in your resume, too.
OP
Thanks for the replies. I do not think they got many applicants as it is a small center. I’d guess maybe 5? The workplace is entirely white and all the lawyers are male and I am neither of those things. I don’t know. I know two people who have been given interviews, both are white men, one with slightly more call than me one with slightly less. One was fired from a government job two years ago for essentially being incompetent. Neither are even employed full time and this is a position with a significant expectation of overtime and more than 40 hours a week or work.
I feel very off about the situation. I will probably do nothing. I really need the contract work and I doubt I will lose it, if anything the contracts have been increasing every year. I am mostly just sad.
No Face
I mean, whether you want to actually work there with these details is another issue. But again, it is highly likely that the people giving you work have no idea that you sent in an application. You should at least talk to them about it if you want the job!
Anon
I know it’s hard to ask or reach out, but you never get what you don’t ask for. Even if you don’t want to or can’t do it in person, and email or IM wouldn’t be amiss.
Anon
If you do nothing, you get nothing.
Anon
This. It’s on you if you do nothing and therefore don’t get it. You have to use your words and network, regardless of the kind of employer. He process may be formal and regimented, but yourself in it.
Anon
Did you, like, talk to anybody about it? Do you know that’s how they think of you or are you just guessing? Nobody is going to be able to read your mind, you should use your words.
Anonymous
Hugs to you. It could be that they know your work and know you will continue to work as a contractor if you don’t get the job so they can try someone else out. If this is the case you are stuck. However, if you have another gig lined up, you could say definitively that you will be giving notice and moving to another job if you don’t get this position. They
could call your bluff, so be ready to leave if you don’t get it, but you have to have another job lined up.
This is a very difficult situation, but government people are not always the most forthright, as they know that you are smarter than they are and that part of them is jealous of you.
Anonymous
Braces: looking for the POV of moms of older kids- the moms site has mostly younger kids right now.
What’s up with kids ~9 going into braces? Is it really better long term? When I was a kid only kids with really really complicated teeth started braces in 5th/6th grade. The rest of us got them on in 6th/7th/8th and off around freshman year or so. I had mine for 18 months from 8th on.
My 3 neighbors are in 4th grade and have braces on now. My oldest is 8 and will for sure need orthodontia but I was thinking we had 3-4 years, not 1.
For those on the other side- does the earlier approach really have better results? What are other considerations? We are super gun shy as both DH and I have had to do Invisalign as adults to re-correct orthodontia that moved back after we stopped wearing our retainers in college ;).
Anon
i got braces in 4th grade (I am now 36 so this was years ago). i had them on for at least three years, got them off for a bit and then had to get them again. in my situation i did not have proper space for my adult teeth to come in once my baby teeth fell out. i also had my teeth move bc i stopped wearing my retainers (and got new ones as an adult), but i don’t think waiting longer for orthodontia makes that less likely to happen. if you are so concerned get a second opinion. (also – there are moms with older kids on the moms page, they just dont seem to post as frequently)
BeenThatGuy
I’m not sure what the benefit is to starting at age 8 or 9. Personally, I had my son evaluated at 10 years old for braces. They were put on at 11 and taken off at 13 (4 months ago). His teeth are perfect (so perfect that I’m jealous). Our Orthodontist uses permanent retainers. That’s basically a metal strip behind the upper and lower teeth. He also wears a retainer at night. Having the permanent retainers I think it going to be key to the teeth not shifting long term.
Anon
My kids are slightly older and had some seriously crooked top front teeth, so I did not mind wiring them up when they were 8/9ish. In my family, girls don’t grow much beyond that, so I thought going early would help (not to mention the boost from reducing a severe overbite that was coupled with buckteeth). We may have more work to do later, as there is a mismatch b/w permanent teeth and jaw size, but a short first course was OK with me.
Anonymous
FWIW I got braces in 3rd grade and I am almost 45. I had 2 retainers prior to that. I got my teeth early and had a lot of different issues (cross-bite, tongue thrust, large teeth and small jaw so some permanent teeth had to be removed, intense buck teeth, etc). I am not sure it was the way to go but it’s not necessarily a new trend.
Seventh Sister
We have pretty crooked teeth up and down the family tree, so I took the kids into the orthodontist about a minute after it was suggested by the dentist. While the time might be slightly longer (two phases of about a year apiece), I had braces the old-fashioned way in middle school and it was 18 months of total misery – rubber bands, headgear (they wanted me to wear it to SCHOOL) and all sorts of complicated things to push my teeth around. In contrast, braces were no biggie for either of my kids. Are they orthodontic snowflakes? Possibly. But their teeth are nice and straight.
Anon
I think it really depends on the conditions that need fixing and an orthodontist is the person best equipped to answer the question. When I got braces, it had less to do with my age and more to do with the doc wanting all my permanent teeth in. My sister started earlier, because they wanted to shift some stuff around to make more room for what hadn’t erupted yet. This was 30+ years ago.
Ribena
I had to wait for my last milk teeth to fall out (and indeed had the last two extracted by a dentist so I could be referred to the orthodontist before a cut off for NHS funding reductions) – my understanding is that that’s the limiting factor, not age per se. I was newly 14, I think?
Anonymous
Where we live, the standard is a palate expander around age 8 immediately followed by braces for 6 months to a year, followed by a second round of braces for 18 months to 2 years around age 12 after all the permanent teeth are in. Every orthodontist we consulted with admitted that the first round of braces is just for temporary cosmetic benefit and that usually only the expander early on plus one round of braces later are actually needed. We were originally going to forgo the first round of braces because it seemed like a needless hassle and expense, but the orthodontist did a hard sell on our kid who then convinced her dad to pony up.
I still think the first round of braces were a mistake because they corrected the cosmetic issues, which meant that when it came time for the “real” braces kiddo was not motivated to wear the rubber bands because her teeth already looked straight.
Anon
It’s definitely a trend now. When I was a kid most people got braces in 7th or 8th grade and had them on for a year or two. I had a bad overbite and I had headgear and everything (only had to wear at night) so I think I had relatively complicated teeth. Now many dentists refer kids to orthodontists starting around age 5 and it’s not uncommon for kids to have palate expanders or even braces in early elementary, and then they do another round of braces later. I volunteered in a first grade classroom pre-pandemic and about half the kids had already had orthodontic work.
I personally think it’s all about $$ for the dentists. The whole dental industry is so scammy. Medical doctors would never get away with what dentists and orthodontists do.
NYNY
My understanding – and IANAO – is that the early spacers and other interventions replace things like headgear. Basically, back in the day then corrected an overbite by pushing the top jaw back. Now they bring the lower jaw forward. I am old enough that even though my teeth were straight, I had braces on my top teeth to eliminate a gap and as an anchor for headgear to correct my overbite. All these years later, the gap and overbite are 100% back.
Anon
Orthodontia was not on my radar for my kid until the dentist brought it up when he was 8. He pointed out several things on my son’s x-rays and said “this is going to be a complicated orthodontics case and I recommend you go see someone soon.” The main issue is that my son’s palate was extremely narrow – mine was as well – and his adult teeth had very little room to come in straight. We went to an ortho who had my son do a palate expander for a year, and then put braces on, which he wore for two and a half years (he got everything off right after he turned 12). The orthodontist told us that with narrow hard palates, the longer people wait, the harder they are to expand without surgery because bones harden as kids get older. My son is 15 and his teeth are still mostly straight but I did notice some crowding on one side of his upper jaw and took him in for a consult – now the issue is that he has grown a lot in the past couple of years and his upper and lower jaw have grown at different rates. The orthodontist wants to wait a year and have us come back and see if his upper jaw catches up to the lower – she said it usually does with no need for further intervention. Plus he needs to get his wisdom teeth out as they’re huge and that’s probably part of the crowding.
Side note. Just like technology moves forward, the economy changes, etc. there are advances made in things like orthodontia as well. Things don’t stay static in the 20-30 years between when people are a child and when people have children. Not every change in how children are raised or cared for is a scam to extract money out of people. Folks seem to get this in regards to things like carseats, but seem so suspicious of any other change that comes along, and I don’t really understand it. I wouldn’t want our pediatrician treating my son based on research from the mid-1990s, when I was a teenager; I want him to take into account everything that’s happened in the intervening 25 years and treat him according to the best possible information available today. Same thing with our eye doctor, our sports medicine doctor, our dentist, our orthodontist, etc. etc. etc.
Anon
I’m the one who made the comment about dentists being scammy and it’s based on much more than just kids getting braces early. Most people I know have a story about a dentist telling them they had 10 cavities and then seeking out a second opinion only to be told there’s nothing wrong with their teeth. There are bad apples in every profession to be sure but no other profession has the number of people committing obvious malpractice with no consequences that the dental industry does. Also a dentist I know and trust has told me the push for early braces is not actually evidence-based. Things like car seats are different because the benefit is obvious and certainly if you go looking in published research you can find an overwhelming amount of data that car seats have reduced injury and death. I haven’t seen any evidence that’s convinced me all this early dental intervention is necessary, and I don’t have trust in the dental profession as a whole for reasons that are broader than this issue.
Anonymous
Wow, thank you so much for making your general lack of trust in the entire dental profession as a whole everyone else’s issue, and using it as a platform to give people extremely specious advice about how to care for their children! Great job.
Seriously, I think even you should be able to understand why the argument of “I don’t trust dentists and so you shouldn’t either” is illegitimate. Like, wow, really?
Anon
Naw, you’re wrong; dentistry is definitely a “buyer beware” profession. It doesn’t mean there aren’t good dentists out there.
Another anon
100% agree on scammy dentists. One told me I needed over $1k in fillings (at Aspen Dental, the scammiest of all). Got a second (and third and fourth; I move a lot) opinion, no fillings necessary.
Anon
Can confirm, bones get harder. I had braces from 35-39 years old, and it was miserable. Adult teeth just will not budge. Despite taking immaculate care of my mouth, I have recession because tension on your teeth for that many years puts the gums under too much stress. I will eventually need gum grafts.
Anon
I would bet that orthodontics has improved since we were teens. My niece got braces at 8, only had to wear them for a few months. She’ll need a second round, but my SIL said it makes for less time overall.
Anon
Daughter of an orthodontist, mom of two teenagers currently with braces. So, in my opinion (and my dad’s), yes, the age in which kids are getting braces has decreased over the years, and more dentists are referring kids who may have issues in the future (with spacing, alignment, etc.) to see orthodontists at a younger age, and more orthodontists are recommending 2 or even 3 sets of braces for kids to correct different issues at optimal times. These are advancements – thank goodness those ugly headgears and neck gears are no longer the industry norm!
Not every kid has those kinds of needs – I took my own kids to see a few different orthodontists and they agreed that one time in late middle school (after the permanent teeth are in) would be fine for them. I have friends though who went to multiple orthodontists that all recommended early age intervention for one kid, one and done with the other kids, so I know it’s just child-specific. Try going to a consult (or 2 or 3) with people your friends recommend and see what the orthodontist recommends and see if that sounds right to you. Then, start saving up the $$$, LOL.
Anon
Any of you have experience with your antidepressant quitting? I’ve been on different ones over the years, and this most recent one has quit on me and it’s frustrating and disappointing and I just want to feel better. I had a psychiatrist a couple years ago who asked me what I had done to make a med stop working, and even though I’m no longer seeing her, I can still hear her in my mind and I hate going to my GP and saying, “Hey, sorry, this one isn’t working.” I hate saying, “Yes, I was feeling great when you first prescribed this, but it’s slowly stopped working and now it’s like I’m taking sugar pills and we need to try something else.” I don’t know what I’m asking for – I guess I just want to hear that there’s a silver bullet and someday I’ll be able to really enjoy and relish my (genuinely wonderful except for these dam^ brain chemicals) life.
Anon
I’m so sorry you’re going through this and that you had a healthcare provider blame you for it in the past!!
The first antidepressant I was on was an SSRI, and my psychiatrist warned me that it might stop working. She said in the industry they call it “SSRI poop out,” so apparently this is a thing. I started a different med and it has continued working. The game of getting the dose and medication right is so exhausting and frustrating, but you’re definitely not alone.
pugsnbourbon
First, I’m giving a virtual middle finger to that psychiatrist. It’s pretty common for meds to become less effective over time, so for her to say that is inexcusable.
Second – I went through something similar starting in late 2020 and into this year. I tried three different meds before getting a GeneSight test, which revealed that surprise! most SSRIs aren’t going to be very effective for me. I really recommend getting that test if you can – I’m feeling better than I have in a long time. Hang in there.
No Face
How did you get that test? Through your PCP?
pugsnbourbon
I have been seeing a licensed psychiatric nurse for med management, and that’s who ordered the test. It wouldn’t hurt to ask your PCP; if they can’t help they might be able to refer you to someone who can.
Anon
My psychiatrist said it’s called “poop out” and is common (I wish they had a better name for it, but this will get you search results if you decide to look it up). I think it came up when we were discussing Deplin, but I can’t remember if Deplin was supposed to help it or prevent it or what.
anon a mouse
No direct experience, but what you describe doesn’t seem different than the discussion the other day about people who have to switch allergy meds because they stop working. You know there’s no personal failing that caused your pills to stop working the same way. Maybe you need a different dosage. Maybe your brain chemistry has shifted enough that you need something different. Listen to your body and advocate for what you know you need. And seriously, F that psychiatrist, I’m glad you are no longer seeing her. A good doctor understands that sometimes you need to make changes.
Anon
Yes, this is very common. After awhile, your body gets used to it. You may need to switch meds or increase your dosage. There is no silver bullet, but with experimentation and patience, you’ll find something that works for you. I just went through this and it was awful until it wasn’t. Good luck!
Anonymous
Yes, I had this happen. I tried a different one for a few months, it didn’t work, went back to original SSRI and it worked. It’s not just you!
Anon
I’m so, so sorry. Is there any room to increase your dosage and see if that works?
Anonymous
Thanks to everyone who’s commenting about the SSRI poop out. This confirms I need a new psychiatrist. I think my SSRI has stopped working (I’ve been on and off the same one for 10 years). I asked her at our last consult, because a friend who is a physician in a different specialty mentioned it to me. She told me that’s not common and that I basically shouldn’t listen to my friend because he is in X specialty. Fair enough, he didn’t say he is an expert, but suggested I ask her because he heard of this phenomenon and knows I’m struggling. She upped my SSRI from 150 to 200 mg, and I still don’t notice a change. It isn’t helping.
anon for this
Pandemic day 562(ish)… I found out I am getting a nice four-figure award at work, and the only things that will meaningfully improve my life are a massage, fancy joggers since we have no plans to return to the office, and a luxury meal for take-out. I’ll save the rest for when my immunocompromised family member can enjoy a long trip with me.
(But seriously, recommend your favorite joggers!)
AnonATL
I haven’t purchased them, but the new jcrew cashmere line has some very nice looking lounge pants. I think there were some joggers. The line has been well-reviewed by a couple blogs I follow and it’s on sale right now.
Anon
Cosy earth joggers!
emeralds
https://shop.lululemon.com/p/womens-joggers/Ready-to-Rulu-Jogger/_/prod9960786?color=51024
Anon
Congrats! No advice on the joggers but I hope you enjoy the massage and the fancy meal and that you get to travel soon.
Anonymous
St. John cashmere or Magashoni cashmere.
Anonymous
Semi-relevant: I bought silk pj bottoms and they are the most decedent feeling pants. Consider a pair? They weren’t jogger style, but maybe you can find some that are.
Anonymous
Vuori
Anon
+1
Anonymous
Congratulations on your award!
I recommend the Icebreaker Crush pants – great merino joggers.
anonypotamus
+1 to Vuori performance joggers – they are amazing! Super soft and drape nicely. I also just splurged on the Quince cashmere joggers with an eye on fall. I have not worn them yet (Bay Area is still way too hot for cashmere), but they felt fantastic when I tried them on.
Anonymous
Help me shop! I’m 45, size 16, and recently realized I have nothing but frumpy mom clothes to wear on dates with my husband. What is sexy but also age appropriate? In my younger years I always emphasized my cleavage/clavicle, not sure if my boobs are too big right now for that.
No Face
Wardrobe Oxygen had a big roundup of Going Out Tops for Grown-A__ Women with many options.
BeenThatGuy
I’m the same age and size. For date nights, my go-to’s are jumpsuits with a jean jacket/light weight leather jacket and current accessories. Another favorite is skinny jeans, a fitted t-shirt with an oversized blazer and long pendant necklace. For some reason, if I go out using a great clutch, I feel way more sexy than my everyday tote bag or purse.
I’ll end by saying sexy is a feeling, not a look. If you feel good in your outfit, it shows; even if it’s athleisure wear and that’s sexy.
Supporting women
When job searching, what are some key things to look for to show that a company values women?
Anon
Women in actual leadership roles. Bonus points if they are non-HR roles.
NYNY
This! And in a large enough org, women at all levels of leadership, which shows there’s a culture of promoting women and a pipeline to leadership. If you see a token woman and/or token POC in leadership, but then dudebros all the way down, run.
Bette
+1, i’d also add Communications/PR to that
Ses
Go to the About Us page on their website and see how far down in seniority you have to go before you find a woman. Everything else is lip service.
Anonymous
Look for the number of women doing substantive work; not staff work. If it is a marketing company, see where the women are. If they are in the C-Suite, fine; but not if they are all in the call centers.
Also, I agree that being in HR is a step below, kind of like being in charge of Diversity & Inclusion when the people in charge are all White, Male, Pale and Stale, and none really know what D&I means.
Anon
The older I’ve gotten, the more I’ve seen that crazy working hours (except for, say, first year law associates or medical residents) are really a way to discriminate against women. You don’t have to discriminate against all women to push a lot of them out that way, and once most are knocked off track, it’s a simple matter to kneecap the remaining ones.
Realistically, given the pressures against SAHDs or dads who “lean out” to help with childcare (not saying this is good, so much as “is”), mothers with unpredictable schedules often find new jobs. Take work that can be done from 9 am to 4 pm, throw it on their desks at 5 pm after sitting on it all day, and, whoops, she has to call for backup help to get the kids out of daycare. Routinely schedule 8 am meetings so she can’t do daycare drop off, or has to haul the kids out of the house at some absurd hour. Wreck her weekend with stupid nitpicky things that ruin an outing with the kids.
anon
I hadn’t thought of long and needlessly unpredictable working hours this way, but it resonates with me.
Anon
I heard about it about 15 years ago – BigLaw hours increasing as women made their way into the workforce – and saw it live and in person with a misogynistic boss who would go out of his way to make me miserable by throwing things on my desk right before leaving for the day. Then I worked in a very, very male-dominated company – a place wherein every single woman who had a baby was assumed to not be coming back – that expected people to work from 6 am until 6 pm, and days off were completely ignored unless it was a federal holiday.
What gets me is that people pull this garbage and then say, “it’s a woman’s choice to stay home with her kids!” That’s not a meaningful choice.
anon
For those of you who struggle with depression, how did you know you needed help/ that something was amiss?
Anon
Honestly? When the thought crossed my mind that I’d be better off dead. Immediately my academic brain was like, “Whoa, wait, what? That’s not true. Let’s go see a doc.” And then I went to the doctor where a nurse was like, “Oh, everyone has thoughts like that. It’s only really a problem if you start to plan for it.” UH, NO. Thinking you’d be better off dead isn’t healthy.
If I’m honest with myself, I had had thoughts like that twice before in my life, but this time I was also really struggling in ways that were really affecting my ability to function – tiredness, crippling anxiety. It was the combination of all of them that finally made go see a doctor. (And thankfully the doctor at the above practice was like, “Oh gosh, yeah, this questionnaire indicates you really aren’t feeling ok. Let’s see what we can do, ok?”) Google for a depression screening questionnaire and see if any of the questions resonate for you.
anonshmanon
here is one such questionnaire: https://patient.info/doctor/patient-health-questionnaire-phq-9
Anon
I’ve never had to take antidepressent meds so take this with a grain of salt, but irritability is a big sign for me that I’m depressed and need to make lifestyle changes. I’ve never really felt despondent or hopeless or anything like that, but apparently you don’t have to.
Anon
When I found myself crying on the kitchen floor (why that was the spot I always cried I have no idea) more days than not. I wish I had asked for medication way sooner. I never had thoughts about being better off dead or suicide but I did have very strong feelings of wishing I could just stop existing. I did the screening questionnaire on my own before going to the doctor and that’s what convinced me it was okay to go ask for help, although I really truly did not need that. Like I said, I wish I had asked for help much sooner.
Anon
Mine was sobbing in the walk-in closet with the door closed while sitting on the full basket of dirty laundry.
Anon
If you think you might need help, definitely seek out help. There is no minimum criteria for “should I talk to a doctor”. The longer you wait to get help, you may start feeling worse. Also keep in mind that extreme sadness is not the only way it can express (anger, irritability, lack of motivation, etc. are just a few ways it can express) and it may be comingled with (or solely) an anxiety issue. Or it may be a symptom of a physical (i.e. non-brain) issues. Depression can be a complex illness and speaking with a doctor is a good first step.
Anonymous
I’d say that if you’re asking the question, something is amiss, and it’s time to seek some help. Even if you’re merely “mildly” depressed, it’s much better to address it now than to wait until you’re really desperate and hit a wall.
Curious
I was tired of missing work for nonspecific symptoms and being overwhelmed. I figured there was no way I would be able to have a child until I figured that out. I wanted to be able to have a baby. This was 6 years ago and baby is only happening now, but I’m so glad I went in and wish I had done so sooner.
LaurenB
I just have to say yay for Biden for having the cojones to make the tough decisions — first pulling out of Afghanistan (which every president has kicked the can down the road on, including DJT) and now having the cojones to mandate vaccines for federal workers and contractors, and let OSHA loose on companies with a certain number of employees. Since I suspect he’ll be a one-term president bc of age, good on him for doing what needs to be done and riding out any changes in popularity as a result (like Trumpers would even like him if he cured cancer tomorrow).
Formerly Lilly
I’m getting the vibes that he is a one term president who is using that to get things done, including and especially the unpopular things. I feel like he’s taking one for the team, repeatedly.
Anon
Agreed!
Anonymous
Well, then he should ram through a carbon tax and aggressive abortion protections for women.
Formerly Lilly
Agreed!
Anon
Amen!
Curious
+1. Which is not to say Obama made no tough decisions. But I am appreciating Biden’s, too.
Anonymous
I so agree. Who ever is getting down on him (probably Republican Anti-Vaxxers) ought to just stop being afraid of a little needle. They are spreading the virus through their inaction. Trump even took the Vaccine and is encouraging others (tho not wholeheartedly).
I have another idea to get the reluctant people to get vaccinated. Biden should come out and say that he will suspend all Federal Benefits effective October 1 to all persons NOT vaccinated with proof of vaccination. Those Federal Benefits include SNAP (Food Stamps), AFDC (Welfare), Monthly Child Care Credits (IRS), Federal Stimuluses, Section 8 housing credits, and all other freebies.
Once this is announced, there will be a stampede of freeloaders who haven’t been vaccinated running to get vaccinated. I would not stand anywhere near the vaccine places, because it would be dangerous to do so. But that would bring them in pronto! I know Biden took a lot of guts to do what he did, but with this, the problem would be solved right away. THIS is the true definition of “HERD IMMUNITY”. We will get the HERDs in when their own pocketbooks are involved, and the Federal gravy train is over!
Anon
woah did you used to ghost write DJT’s tweets?
emeralds
Wow this post is not even trying to pretend it isn’t racist and classist.
Anonymous
Yikes at this post. Freeloaders? Many (most?) people who just lost UI (and other forms of public assistance) lost their jobs through no fault of their own because, you know, the pandemic.
Anonymous
I made a typo – *and are on other forms of public assistance. My understanding is only pandemic UI ended.
Anon
Did you recently wake up from a coma? Cash welfare hasn’t been AFDC since 1996.
Anon
I’m a super lefty-liberal but I do feel some frustration that my taxes are going to fund medical care that is only required because of poor decision making and refusal to take basic safety measures to protect yourself and others. Unvaccinated people are medically expensive to treat. Very republican states (Kentucky, West Virginia, Tennessee) have significantly higher percentages of their populations receiving SSDI benefits, which includes insurance through medicare and medicaid. The SSI / SSDI reserves were in enough trouble before all of the unnecessary and avoidable costs of treating unvaccinated COVID patients.