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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I recently took a trip to Palm Springs, where a very sweet hotel clerk took one look at my all-black outfit and asked, “Just out of curiosity, are you from New York?” (It was a black sundress, in my defense, but message received.)
When I ventured out for some shopping later that day, I wandered into Trina Turk, expecting mostly loud prints and caftans, but was pleasantly surprised with the selection of solid tops like this one. I love the purple-y color, the blouson sleeves, and yoke-neck details. This would be a perfect item to layer under a sweater blazer or cardigan or just on its own, tucked into a pair of trousers.
The top is $228 at Trina Turk and comes in sizes XS–XL. It's also available in white and, at Zappos, a pale blue.
Here are two more affordable options: This blouse from Vince Camuto is $74 and available in six colors; Vince Camuto also has this plus-size top that comes in four colors and is on sale for $50 and up.
Sales of note for 9.16.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 30% off wear-now styles
- J.Crew Factory – (ends 9/16 PM): 40% off everything + extra 70% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Extra 25% off all tops + markdowns
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Ellen
Elizabeth, I love this Relativity Top and appreciate it that it leaves some room for us in case we the are trying to lose some of the Pandemic 25, like I need to do. In the meantime, the blouse is long enough in the back so that men are not able to see and focus on our tuchuses like they do when we wear short tops (or at least other women younger then me do). As I get into my 40’s, it is very important for me to do all I can to retain cleints, and also curry favor with new cleints b/c I am now the biggest rainmaker in the firm.
Anon
I am not new to parenting, but my kids switched schools during COVID and now one is switching again to a “neighborhood” high school (which seems to get about 1/5 of our city). I feel like in this, I lost what had been a strong parent tribe (of fellow working parents and parents of kids that my kids were either friendly with or friendly-acquaintances with). Pre-COVID, the parent tribe wound up being important for arranging rides, knowing any important scuttlebut, generally navigating things in life (like someone will tell you the parents are in Aruba when your kid is at a sleep over at Arrianna’s house). It’s a huge public school, so the school has no new parent events. And I work, which I swear isn’t novel but I feel like I am really on the outside looking in here and need my people back now that kid activities are going on and work / work travel is really ramping up. How do moms of teens make new mom friends when they don’t have an easy excuse like being new? Just smile, waive, chat and maybe leave my RBF at home? Our immediate neighborhood just has much younger kids in it.
Anon
I think when your kids are older teens, and more independent, parents whose only connection is their kids’ friendship tend to drift apart anyway. There may be less “scuttlebutt” to share because the kids are no longer telling their parents everything. It’s a different season of life than when the kids are smaller.
Anon
No doubt. But what do you do when you have no track record with the kids much less adults? We used to have a network of parents we trusted to drive our kids and where they would not be exposed to nonsense if they stayed over. Everything was carefully vetted. My kid in middle school has a phone to call me if she feels uncomfortable and I know one mom who texts and talks while she drives to the point where my kid said something. Ugh. Never mind access to pills or booze or Uncle Feely who is staying on their couch. Bigger kid = bigger issues.
Anon
You don’t allow your kid to sleep over there and have the friend sleep at your house instead until you are comfortable. There is a growing cadre of parents uncomfortable with sleepovers for all the reasons you mentioned. Plus, phone access takes everything to a new level; I do not trust teens in the middle of the night to make good decisions, and the stakes seem higher these days. Pick her up at 11pm until/unless she has a solid group you know and trust.
Anonymous
“phone access takes everything to a new level”
This times one million. We didn’t all have cameras and internet access at sleepovers in the 1990s.
Anon
+1 to this. I’m actually not against sleepovers for the tween set and 8-10 year old set, but there are a LOT of shenanigans at high school sleepovers, especially with a lot of kids. Based on anecdotal evidence alone, in my friend group, the pretty bad stuff seems like it happens when there are a lot of kids together being loosely or not supervised by parents late at night (drinking and driving, weird stuff on screens, etc.). We pretty much shut down sleepovers after 14.
Anon
OK guys – real talk here from someone older than most of you and whose kid is grown (and who was a teenager in the 80s when the world was objectively a lot more dangerous; the difference was that when we snuck out of a sleepover, our parents could not track us on our cell phones).
Your teenager will (hopefully) be leaving home in a few short years as an adult. It is time to start loosening the reins. The idea that a teen should be picked up at 11:00 is absurd and harmful because you are teaching them that the world is a terrifying place that they are unable to navigate on their own. By all means do your due diligence. Call and make sure an adult will be home. Talk to your kid about things that are a red flag. Tell them to let you know if the carpool driver is unsafe. Check the location of their cell phone. Explain the concept of real and lasting consequences for near-adult misbehavior.
And then let them go. Because I am here to tell you – both from my college experience and the experience of my daughter – the kids who went absolutely off the rails in college were the ones whose parents had been controlling in high school.
And OP – there is probably an email or chat group and your kid can pass along both your willingness to drive and your need for a ride. It is time to let them start taking responsibility for these types of arrangements. However, if they are involved in some organized activity, your can almost certainly volunteer in some way which will give you an in.
Anon
+1 million to 10:27
Anon
“Your teenager will (hopefully) be leaving home in a few short years as an adult. It is time to start loosening the reins. The idea that a teen should be picked up at 11:00 is absurd and harmful because you are teaching them that the world is a terrifying place that they are unable to navigate on their own. By all means do your due diligence. Call and make sure an adult will be home. Talk to your kid about things that are a red flag. Tell them to let you know if the carpool driver is unsafe. Check the location of their cell phone. Explain the concept of real and lasting consequences for near-adult misbehavior. And then let them go. Because I am here to tell you – both from my college experience and the experience of my daughter – the kids who went absolutely off the rails in college were the ones whose parents had been controlling in high school.”
I just want to say that I cosign all of this, even though my kid is only 17. You have to start letting go and trusting in your own parenting, at a certain point. I completely agree that it’s good to know your kid’s friends’ parents if possible, but will also say that high school friendships can be transient and shifting and it’s not always possible. We saw a lot of parental divorces as my son moved from middle school into high school, and that adds big complexity into the situation. If we have serious concerns about safety, we obviously don’t let our son go to the party/event. But we also try to remember that in a year and a half, he’ll be 18 and at college and won’t even have to tell us where he’s going if he doesn’t want to. I don’t want him to feel like his home life was so locked-down that he now wants to take risks and do stupid stuff because he can. He has a phone; we added him to our Uber account so he can always get a ride if he needs one; we’ve explained that he is to never ever get in a car with someone who has been drinking or using drugs (including taking pills, which are ubiquitous these days), and instead should call us or get an Uber home. We’ve talked to him about drugs and alcohol and risky behaviors since he was 10 years old. Based on what we’re seeing so far, he gets it, but that doesn’t mean he also sometimes doesn’t end up in situations that in an objective sense we’d rather him not be in (i.e., we drop him off at a friend’s house where we knew the friend and the parents, and then he and the friend walked to the friend’s cousin’s house – a person we had no idea existed – and the cousin was having a party where there was alcohol and marijuana. My kid handled it fine and felt comfortable enough to be honest with us about what happened when he got home).
Is this phase of parenting terrifying, yes. Is this phase of parenting part of the package and we just have to learn to deal with it, also yes. This is the part that people with older kids try to warn you about when you’re holding your sweet little newborn – the time goes fast and before you know it, you have big kids who face big risks. Parenting time from ages 11-18, IMO is better spent when people focus more on teaching kids values and how to make good decisions vs. controlling their every move.
Also want to say – my first-year college roommate came from an extremely locked-down religious home and she went berserk when she got to college and was out from under their thumb. Ended up flunking out second semester of our freshman year and getting pregnant (and then getting an abortion she absolutely could not tell her family about) and going back home. Focus on raising level-headed, independent kids with good critical-thinking skills and maybe they’ll be able to keep their heads on straight in the face of temptation. Which they will eventually encounter, sooner or later.
Anonymous
@Anon 10:27
No one’s worried about kids sneaking out. It’s all the same stuff at every generation goes through except this generation is photographing, videoing and live streaming it. There’s no more making mistakes in high school and moving on in college. Checking phone location doesn’t help if your kid gets drunk, assaulted and pictures of the assault are circulated online in real time. The decisions people make at 13/14 are very different than they would make at 19. It’s the 13/14 year olds with phones and access to booze for the first time that I worry about. Not 19 year olds at college.
Anon
Pre-COVID, I was in my pool’s locker room with my young kids and their friend. Older girls came in and were trying to catch their “friends” showering and filmed my kids and their friend getting changed. I had to try hard not to flush that kid’s phone and was barely civil to the adults with those kids. These girls couldn’t have been older than middle school, if they were even that.
Anon
I dislike the “real talk” condescension here. I agree with the discussions you had with your child, and did/do the same with my children. Same as below – they are on our Uber accounts, they are not punished for getting into a bad situation, but praised for getting out of one. That said, I also am an 80s kid, and my parents did not let me do sleep overs in high school. My kids are high school age, and they have a midnight curfew on Saturday nights. They are given free range until midnight, when they are expected to be home. With limited exceptions, I also don’t allow sleepovers. I stand by my statement that the biggest issues with the most significant consequences happen at 2/3AM. The late-night situations are harder to get out of, and stakes are higher. I disagree that allowing a responsible kid to hang out and free range until midnight sets up a college student who will go crazy with newfound freedom. The close, non-contentious relationship I have with my kids makes me feel like we’ve found a good balance of trust with guardrails.
Anon
+ one million to 10:52.
Anonymous
At our high school parents orientation one of the first thing the principal said was do not let your kids have sleepovers in high school. He has seen terrible things happen and it’s just not worth it. I lived by that and was glad I did.
Anonymous
Yeah, I think high school sleepovers are a disaster waiting to happen. And I am pretty darn permissive otherwise.
Anonymous
Not the poster above – but it’s like dating. Plan an event in a public place a few times, then offer to host a group event at your house. Like my kid wants to invite her riding friends over at Easter but I know I wouldn’t allow my kid to go to their house without knowing the parents a bit first so I’m going to suggest I take them to a movie or for a public swim instead. Would not be offended if other mom tagged along or suggesting dropping kids off at movie theatre instead of me driving. For hosting a first event at home, I tend to invite 3-4 girls so that they don’t feel like they are the only non-family member. Safety in numbers and all that. Also usually keep it simple like ordering pizza and watching a movie.
Parents for sports teams carpooling tend to meet by attending the team games or via team manager.
Anon
Hmm the idea that you can’t host daytime events at home without first meeting in a public place is very weird to me. My preschool age kid has lots of drop off play dates (and we host them) with families that we’ve never spoken to in depth and don’t know at all. I do get that sleepovers are different, but this seems really extreme for a daytime get together.
Anonymous
Different families have different comfort levels. We didn’t do any drop off playdates at preschool or early primary school years unless we knew the parents first.
I used to work in child protection so I may be more cautious than some. The prosecutors I know are all a hard no on sleepovers but we allow them if we know the parents.
Anon
There is a kid in my kid’s orbit who I might allow into a daylight event in my house but I would never let my kid to go that kid’s house. Prior bad drama over text (a year ago, but still) and some other drama with that kid in the school plus the parents gave me a weird vibe the one time we met. My kid is very sweet and naive still, which is good and yet unhelpful in sussing all this out.
Anon
Agreed with Anon 10:01 for high school kids, which is what OP was talking about. Maybe 9:17 is talking younger?
I know things are different and whatnot, but there was zero chance my parents could have known every kid’s parents before I went to their house in high school. That would have just been way too many ever evolving new acquaintances for them to make at that stage in their life.
Sleepovers obviously different.
Anon
You make rules for your kids and talk to them about how they should handle situations like these. It’s scary but it’s part of letting your kids grow up.
Anon
Some of the best parenting advice I got from a mom of 3 adult children was “the best thing you can do when they get to be teenagers is trust your own parenting and trust that the values and goals you’ve tried to help them develop will kick in at the critical moment.” You cannot possibly prepare your children for every potential troublesome situation they will face; you can only help them understand what they value, and what they want out of life, and trust that in the moment they will make the right choices. And also understand that sometimes they may make a wrong choice and hopefully it will be a low-stakes one, that you can help them through with empathy vs. judgment and recriminations.
Anon
When my brother was in high school, he went to a party that went completely off the rails. Cops were called. My brother was the only kid besides the kid who lived there who didn’t run away. When the cop asked my brother why he didn’t run, my brother said “My parents taught me not to run from cops.” The cop called my dad, who came to get both my brother and the kid who lived there since the kid’s parents were unreachable. Next morning at 5:30 AM, my dad woke both of them up to take them back over to the house to clean up. They got the house cleaned up back to where it was before the party. My brother still talks about it/ he made the right decision when he was in a bad situation due to my parents telling him for many many years to not run from cops. From the time we were little. Don’t run from cops, don’t get in the car with a drunk driver.
anonshmanon
I just want to point out that your middle schooler spoke up when another parent was being a distracted driver! That takes a bunch of things: paying attention to the driving, recognizing it’s not great, and going to you to figure out a solution. Clearly she is quite level headed and trusted you to help her. That would make me proud and optimistic as a parent.
Anonymous
This is my experience as well. Already at age 12, there’s less closeness amongst the parents whose kids are friends compared to with my younger kids. Kids are more independent. I’m still on FB almost entirely because of the school FB page which is run by a SAHM and provides timely updates of info. Does the high school have a FB page?
Anonymous
Your kids grew up that’s what happened. They make their own plans and set up their own rides. They call you if there’s a problem.
Anonymous
+1,000
Anon
My parents did not know my friends’ parents during high school. We fed into the school from all over and they had no way of meeting them. It was fine? We certainly took advantage of the lenient parents but also my parents had a lot of rules I had to follow, with clear consequences so trouble only got so far.
Anonymous
Same. My mom knew like 5 ladies that had kids my age but we weren’t even friends anymore. Most of my friends were from across town.
My parents made a point of meeting my friends, and when I was younger they said hello at dropoffs- but that’s it.
AIMS
I think there is probably just too much information to know all of it in a large school. I think what you can do is just insist on speaking to parents if your kid is going to a sleep-over etc., and also just talk to your kid so they continue telling you things lie,in the text and drive situation. FWIW, my mom wasn’t very strict but we had plenty of phone calls from stricter parents who wanted to speak to her before their kids came over.
Cat
+1, my mom would check up on plans like a sleepover even if it was a parent she trusted!
FWIW, you may get to know some organically through extracurriculars. My closest friends were through that, so my parents ended up being generally familiar with many of the people I mentioned just because they saw them in shows or at least knew their name from the playbill, met other parents attending the performances, etc. Similar things happen through sports bc the same parents show up to watch their kid play.
Anon
My city has had a lot of teens / early 20s kid die horiffically from things like drag racing while drunk in neighborhood streets (resulted in my getting Noxgear b/c I walk my dog by the burned-in rubber skid marks in the road), girls raped and photographed naked and passed out, etc., etc. The bad stuff seems much worse than when I was a teen.
Anon
If you were a teen in the 1980s/1990s, it absolutely is not worse; crime rates have dropped precipitously since then. If you don’t have kids, and are just commenting based on what you’ve seen in your local news, I assure you, your understanding of the risks of modern teenagehood are extremely limited. Your comment is kind of fearmongering and I don’t think that’s helpful in this discussion (or any discussion, frankly).
Anon
I’m sure there are actual statistics out there about whether these things are actually getting more likely, but as anecdata the opposite way, several kids in my “good” suburban high school died in a car crash while driving drunk, a boy died by suicide, and a girl died from alcohol poisoning after collapsing at a high school dance. None of that has happened in my kids’ middle and high schools. While I understand social media presents new challenges, the world overall does not feel less safe to me than it did when we were teens.
Emma
My mom grew up in the 70s and had two classmates die in a car crash while racing down a busy road, and a girl’s little sister died of alcohol poisoning at a party when she found a bottle of vodka. This was at a reputable private school in Pennsylvania. Unfortunately none of this is new and I agree that the best thing to do is take reasonable precautions and give your kids tools so they know how to react.
Anonymous
Part of this is that you now have a teenager- your kid is a lot older than pre COVID.
I would suggest that you find a way to get active in your community; perhaps you’ll meet parents of teens there.
Are there any school events you could volunteer for? I know it’s not as rampant in upper graders, but I’m thinking maybe all sport boosters, prom/after prom committee, idk what else- in my town parents do graduation committee, friends of music (boosters for music)/ drama, etc. even if you aren’t a regular, perhaps go to a few pta meetings or events.
Does your kid do activities? Theater, sports, band, art- could you meet parents at those events?
Anon
In my city, a lot of kid activities became drop=offs during/after COVID, so it is not like it used to be where you’d be in a lobby and chatting. Everyone now has earbuds in and even if you see a person, it’s really clear that they don’t want to be chatted up. I don’t get this world — the more I WFH, the more I need to casually chat with people who aren’t in that home with me.
Anon
Even pre-Covid everything was drop off from late elementary on, at least in my area. Even in early elementary school, many activities are already drop-off.
Anonymous
My kid has attended the same neighborhood schools her whole life and I still interact regularly with the parents of many of her elementary and middle school friends, but I haven’t even met the parents of some of the friends she’s made in high school. When they get older you really have to trust them. My kid is required to verify that parents will be home before hanging out at someone’s house and that an adult will be driving, but I have to take her word for it. I have had many serious talks with her about car racing, alcohol, drugs, being alone in a room with another person, etc. etc. She knows that she can call any time of day or night for a ride home and that she will be praised for getting herself out of a bad situation, not punished for getting herself into it. I do have some connections to the parent rumor mill but I haven’t found it to be very useful for safety purposes. It’s mostly about drama related to school and extracurriculars.
Anonymous
This. The number of parents who let their kids have their phones overnight in their rooms and don’t know that their junior high kids are awake and texting at 2am is astounding to me. I had to have my daughter turn off her phone when it goes in the charging station in our room for overnight because the group chat notifications all night long kept waking me up.
Anon
My kid’s phone chargers are in my closet. They get muted overnight and charge there after 9pm on weeknights and a little later on weekends. IDK what happens when I have work travel, but if their battery is dead, that’s on them.
Anon
“ She knows that she can call any time of day or night for a ride home and that she will be praised for getting herself out of a bad situation, not punished for getting herself into it.”
My parents emphasized this too and I think it’s important.
Anon
My kids’ safe phrase is “I forgot to take the dog out.”
pugsnbourbon
My wife and I have a similar safe phrase (for each other): “Don’t forget to feed the cat.” There’s no cat.
Anon
Our deal was that kid would text me on the sly, then I would call and tell the kid they had to come home. Then it was “my mom is such a drag, I have to go.”
Anon
What a great idea.
Anon
Just more evidence I’d hate parenting today. 90s kid here, my parents had no idea what I was up to in high school. I also managed to move out for college for good, get a job and grow up. Independence seems underrated today.
Anon
This isn’t universal. A lot of the comments on this thread (and similar threads on the moms page) are pretty foreign to me. I remember someone on the moms page once said they didn’t allow their 8 year olds to go to playdates at other kids’ houses unless they knew the parents well. We started offering drop-off playdates at age 4 to daycare friends whose parents we had only met briefly in passing and I’d say probably 80% of parents took us up on it immediately (the other 20% stayed the first time, but then dropped off). I wonder if it’s regional. I live in a small city in the Midwest and I feel like we tend to be less helicoptery than people on the coasts.
Anon
It’s funny, I used to take the bus to Port Authority b/c NJ won’t let you drive a car until 17. I’m sure my parents had no idea. I always had a sane friend with me and wouldn’t have done that with some of the people we knew b/c those kids were trouble.
But now, I’d drop a kid at the mall or movies no problem (with phone and debit card, iPhone lets you track your kids but I don’t have Life 360, just friend finder). At someone’s house — can be a very different story. I regularly take my kids and their friends hiking and into the wilderness (in part, to get them away from screens) but a lot of adults are at the stage where their kids where they should lock up the booze (have heard stories re some older siblings), which is at the milder end of the bad decisions spectrum. In public, I have a lot fewer concerns.
Anon
I grew up in Brooklyn and was going to Manhattan by myself in middle school, with no cell phone, just about every weekend. I have no idea where my family thought I was, and it didn’t occur to me to wonder about that until I was an adult.
Anonymous
Also a 1990s. In the 1990s you could mess up and do something inappropriate or embarrassing and there would not be video of it all over tiktok the next day. It’s a very different world right now. I’m forever gratefully that there is no video of my shenanigans between 1995-1999.
Anon
I mean sure, but people still talked, bad things could still happen that could be reputation and career damaging. You just got guidance from your parents and didn’t do every crazy thing that crossed your mind.
Anon
+1 and there were also cameras and home movies (remember VCRs, lol?)
Anonymous
Cameras and VCRs are not even the same ballpark. They are physical media that you need to hand out physical copies to distribute. And even showing it is limited to how many people you can fit in a house.
So the drunk 14 year old freshman girl who is talked into giving a senior a BJ behind the bleachers at the football stadium or the older brother at a sleepover is not getting gossiped about at school the next day, it’s getting live recorded with phone camera by a buddy and then texted around school or posted on P+hub before she’s even off her knees. Obviously that kind of stuff has been going on for decades but it wasn’t able to be recorded or distributed the same way as now.
Anonymous
I wonder if some of this is just how we remember it. I think there is a lot of things more problematic today but I also think maybe kids are more understanding of these things just happening whereas I had a friend growing up who had a BF secretly record her in an intimate act when we were in 9th grade and show it to everyone and everyone talked about it for years, whether they saw it or not, and she was brand a sl*t and not a victim. My friend still can’t do that particular act with anyone.
I don’t think I was even especially wild as a kid but the things my friends and I got up to was just so much more dangerous. We hitchhiked without so much as a cellphone to use if there was an issue. We dated people we randomly met on the subway or on the street or wherever without the benefit of even googling them. Etc. etc.
Anon
I agree.
Anon
I definitely think there is some survivor bias here.
There are people who have mostly vanished from my life because of choices made when they were very young.
Anon
I definitely dated adult men I met on the internet when I was in High School. Makes me very controlling of my kid’s internet access now!
Anon
Agree – I graduated high school in 2010 and there was still a girl who filmed herself self-gardening and distributed via CD to boys….
Anonymous
The amped-up consequences are what really worry me as the parent of a teen. It’s not just that the videos are all over social media. It’s also that law enforcement is insane now. When my generation was in high school if you were at a party with alcohol your parents would get called. In our town the cops automatically charge everyone at the party with constructive possession of alcohol. And then there is the whole cops shooting people thing.
Anon
Independence is good, but you have to provide guardrails. The scourge of mental health issues in millennials is proof that the boomer generation did not exactly ace parenting in the 90s, and it has now turned into a crisis, thanks in part to constant internet/social media access. It is a brave new world of parenting and kids need boundaries and support on their way to independence.
Anon
Do you have a source for “scourge of mental health issues in millennials”? As an elder millennial, I don’t think it’s that millennials necessarily have more mental health issues than previous generations, it’s just that we’re more open about it and more likely to seek treatment (which is a good thing!) Whereas my boomer parents (who were great parents in general) think depression is not a thing because you can just choose to be happy.
Anon
I think it’s both/and. COVID hasn’t helped. Phones and social media sure haven’t. So I think that these kids have more in 2023 than I did at an earlier point in time (back when a phone was a phone and we talked on them).
It’s not like any age has been the picture of good mental health, but there are IMO more headwinds now. Yes, we’re not sending kids to work in factories at 14 here or dying of the plague, but phones are more net negative and I wish we could get phones like Jitterbugs for teens (like just phone + text + map / location services). I wish school was still done on paper and not so much on Canvas / school apps; YouTube is not a substitute for a teacher actively engaged with kids.
Anon
Anon at 11:24 – just want you to realize you are radiating big “get off my lawn” energy here. And you’re catastrophizing, big-time. Stop watching so much TV news; it will benefit you greatly in all areas of your life.
Anon
On the other hand as someone pointed out above, revenge p0rn existed in the 1990s and girls who suffered were treated way worse. There’s much more awareness today of girls being victims in these situations. I think there’s good and bad aspects of every generation and some of these comments feel pretty catastrophic to me.
Anon
Get off my lawn energy doesn’t make her wrong tho
Anonymous
There might be more awareness amongst adults re teen girls as victims but that doesn’t seem to be how things play out amongst peers. There’s still plenty of mean girls behavior, it just doesn’t end at the school yard, it continues online at home.
Anon
Depends on when you graduated I guess but I graduated in ’02 and there was AIM and webpages and email, so bullying and mean girl behavior definitely didn’t end at the school yard gates. That sounds very 1950s-ish honestly.
PolyD
Do Millennials have more mental health issues or are they just the first generation to talk openly about it? As a GenXer, we tamped down those feelings and read self-help books on the sly.
Anon
I don’t think any generation has managed to ace parenting, but the poster to whom I’m replaying seems to be a millennial pulling the old “we turned out fine” card, so that was why I called out millennials. Gen X was also raised by Boomers, and Lord knows Boomers have their issues, too!
Anonymous
Gen X learned to suck it up and get on with life. A large percentage of millennials are in therapy whether they actually need it or not, blocking access to therapy for people with genuine diagnosable mental health issues. There was even an article in the NYT a few months back about a trend among millennials of refusing to date anyone who wasn’t in therapy.
Anon
Anonymous at 4:10, be ashamed of yourself. That kind of judgmental attitude is exactly why people who need help don’t seek it – because they fear being judged by someone in their life who will tell them to just “suck it up and get on with life.” You should consider therapy; sounds like you could use it.
anon
What I’m not hearing in any of these comments is some GD affirmation that you’ve essentially lost your parenting village. I feel you, OP. The teen years can be really lonely … for the parents. The social networks get more dispersed, your kids are asserting their independence more, and kids’ problems are much bigger and more private. I understand the “outside looking in” feeling. I don’t even have a high schooler yet, just a middle schooler, and I already feel like I don’t know anything or anyone.
You won’t get the scuttlebutt on the current school, but I would encourage you to lean in to your existing mom community for support.
Anon
Maybe that’s more on the moms page? Not trying to snark, but this isn’t the crowd likely to give you a ton of parenting affirmation.
Anon
No offense to the moms page, but I swear half of the posters there have yet to get pregnant or are pregnant with their first and have no effing idea.
anon
Love the moms page, but there’s not much perspective on older kids and teens, other than their own memories of being a child or teen.
Anon
I agree there aren’t many parents of teens on the moms page, but almost everyone posting there has kids.
Anon
This. I feel for you, and was in your place. We moved states in 2020 just before my daughter’s junior year. I knew nobody, she knew nobody (and wasn’t in person until senior year other than sports practices), and I felt completely alone, with my parenting community ten hours away. Luckily, we had a really communicative PTO and I was able to keep up on the important stuff, but none of the informal knowledge, none of the childhood friends to take photos with at graduation, nobody to help celebrate that big milestone. She is in college now, but I still feel like I never found my people.
anon
Yes. I want to validate that it’s a real and significant loss.
Anon
Cosign — I am lonely at work b/c I am juggling that and kids. I am lonely as a parent b/c I am juggling parenting and working FT. I really lost my tribe somewhere along the way but blame a lot of that on trying not to drown in parenting/work when our schools didn’t reopen for a long time and I missed a lot of everything and had zero free time. Burning the candle at both ends and just now coming out of that fog.
Anonymous
Mom of a seventh grader here with friends who all have high schoolers/college students, and I have some thoughts about finding that parent tribe:
1) I have found connections with other parents by getting to know the kids and then reaching out to the parents to suggest that we coordinate summer camps or carpools or activities. This is really driven by your kid and their choice of friends. I haven’t found besties this way, but I have found other parents with whom I can commiserate, share scuttlebutt, test theories, etc. This is the bottom-up path.
2) The other way to do it is the top-down path, where you join something – the PTA, athletic boosters, the board of the extracurricular organization, etc. – and then reliably show up. You will build friendships through doing things together, and get much better information about the school because you will be plugged in. This is a great way to make adult friends, but unlikely to result in knowing the parents of your kids’ friends.
3) The parent tribe really, really changes in junior high. Those friendships forged in the crucible of preschool or elementary school are unlike anything you develop later on. It’s a real loss. And it becomes particularly challenging in later high school, both because kids are more independent and because the college search becomes consuming and competitive even when people try very hard to avoid that rat race.
4) It can be really valuable to find friendships that are outside of school contexts. The older I get, the more I value more intergenerational connections. So much of what you need is a sounding board and some cheerleaders who feel invested in the success of your kids. I have found a lot of that through my book club – our kids aren’t friends with each other or the same age, but I feel invested in their kids and really value the friendships with their moms and that perspective.
Hang in there. This is hard.
anon
Point #4 is so important.
Anon
I am the parent of a middle schooler and I see the dropoff in the last 2 years from elementary to middle. I feel you. I love my moms community but my closest mom friends’ kids are not really close friends with my kid. Problems are more private and parents dont commiserate as much since there’s a bit of inherent posturing or rivalry or something like that. Parents dont want to admit the problems their kid has because of the perception that your kid is doing better, or winning awards, or doesn’t have those same problems.
Anon
Just went through this and still going through this with a Junior. The parent tribe ends starting in Jr. High, which is also when most of the volunteer options stop as well. I am not in touch with most of my elementary school parent tribe (sadly) because the kids (and the parents too, I guess) have moved on to other friendships. In my experience, and opinion, in HS there is no “meet the parents” for the kids my kids are hanging around with.
Anon
Right. My son changed schools in 7th grade and is no longer in contact with his elementary/middle school friends; it’s not reasonable for me to expect him to maintain friendships with kids he no longer sees because that’s what I’m more comfortable with. I completely acknowledge the loss of a “parenting community” but – like work friendships – these are mostly-transactional relationships that are time-limited and shouldn’t be counted on to endure, long-term. If the connection with the moms was about kids and not on a deeper, more personal level – well, kids don’t stay kids forever.
I do sincerely wonder how some of y’all are going to manage if your 18-year-old high school graduate decides to go to college 2000 miles away from you, and then doesn’t continue to text you on the hour, every hour, past the first week or so of being away from home? Some of you need to develop a plan for how you’re going to cope with that emotionally, because I think for some that is going to be a big, big shock. If you can’t handle letting a 14-year-old stay at someone’s house overnight, what’s your emotional coping strategy for letting your 18-year-old move to a different state for college?
Anon
Honestly, I want my kids to do things apart from me and wish they could have sooner. With COVID, we could no longer do things like carpool to summer camps — you could only ride with your family to minimize risk. Last summer, some families were refusing to carpool even if not required to self-drive everywhere. Outdoor camps where you could only sleep in a tent alone or with a sibling. I’m so sick of it. I want my kid to see the rest of the country if not the world and our schools still have yet to do a local field trip (so I can take them on trips and to museums and plays but TBH they see too much of me when they should be seeing less of me). Happy to cut the cord. Glad we have a very tight relationsip but it’s to the point where one kid can’t see a life apart from her family and I don’t want that for her.
Anon
How old? It could be a personality/maturity thing, not (just) Covid. I also wanted to keep that tight cord until well into high school…I kept saying my plan was to live with my grandma (around the block from my own house) and go to the local university for college. I was serious!
Turns out I grew up a lot in high school, went to college in Boston, lived a semester in Paris and then lived in NYC for a decade.
I’m thankful my parents supported that need for closeness and did not push. Their steady presence allowed me to mature at my own rate.
Anon
I agree with the poster who said to let your kids grow up a little. They’ll be in college soon enough and you (hopefully) won’t be able to hover over them there. I have two in college and also agree that the kids who were the most over-parented in high school were the ones who were out of control once in a college dorm situation.
Keep instilling your values in your kids, don’t mince words when you talk to them about the very real dangers, and give them the room to make their own mistakes. My kids had a phone and a 100% hall pass to call me at any time for any reason and say “come get me,” and they wouldn’t be in trouble no matter what the situation was. My daughter used it once. Everyone had been drinking, including her, she came home and threw up and we never talked about it again. You have to mean it when you say “you don’t be in trouble.”
Anon
Agree with all of this.
Anonymous
This is pretty mild and standard though no? Like doesn’t everyone tell their kid this? And no one is really worried about their kid drinking a little too much, calling for a ride and coming home and puking. The much more problematic behavior is that things like busting in on couples fooling around at a house party has turned into busting in on a couple fooling around at house party, snapping a picture and texting it to the class year group text. See the example above of girls trying to seek nudes of their friends at a pool. The elementary school principal wasn’t having to remind us not to take nudes in the 1990s like literally happened at my kids school this year after an incident. And that’s one of the ‘better’ schools in the city.
Anon
So,then what? You want to keep your kid at home with no phone until college? Are you going to move to college and live in the dorm with her? This isn’t theoretical. What is your practical advice?
Anon
I’m also interested in the answer here. When your kid turns 18, Anonymous at 12:32, phones will still exist. Social media will still exist. Parties will still exist. And your kid will be a legal adult who no longer has to tell you where they are or ask your permission for anything. So. What’s your strategy here? How will you continue to “protect” your kid from revenge porn/bad social media behavior/the social media rumor mill/etc. when they’re out in the world living their life? Or do you plan to be the parent who attempts to guilt their kid into staying home with them forever and ever, and end up with a 40-year-old failure-to-launch living in your basement?
Anon
Yeah I’m not really sure what you can do about this besides talk to your kids about it, let them know they can talk to you openly and hope for the best. Just like any other risky or potentially dangerous thing teens might do.
Anonymous
There’s practical advice all over this thread. People who don’t allow 14 year olds to have sleepovers with unknown families don’t automatically become parents who can’t let their kids go to college. You step up responsibility and tell them why you make different decisions and you pay attention to what they are doing. Most 11 year olds have cell phones, mine has one but she doesn’t get to use it at 2am. I know her friends are using it at 2am because I can hear the group chat notifications.
I went away for summer programs in other cities during later high school and went away for university. During one of the summer programs, I called home zero times in the first 2 weeks and my parents were fine. I would be fine now.
It’s so strange to approach it like ‘well if my kid is going to do this at 18 then I should let them do it at 12 or 14.’ No. 12 is 12, 14 is 14 and 18 is 18. You step up freedom and responsibility as they get older. Just like you don’t teach a kid to ride a bike by putting them on a 24 inch mountain bike and giving it a shove. You start small and build. High school freshmen are 14. That’s a big difference from 18 and going to college. Just like you don’t treat a 14 year old like a 10 year old, you don’t treat an 18 year old like a 14 year old.
Anon
I don’t think anyone is saying 14 year olds deserve all the privileges of 18 year olds (one obvious distinction is they can’t drive and can’t go anywhere without a parent giving them a ride), just that keeping maximum control over your kids until they leave for college maybe isn’t the best decision and is likely to lead to them going hog wild in college.
Also fwiw I’m sure this varies by person, but I definitely made worse decisions as a 19 year old than as 14 year old. Not my parents’ fault in any way, but I was a serious, studious kid in middle and high school without a ton of friends and was heavily involved in an all-consuming competitive sport, so I didn’t have much opportunity to get into trouble. I told my parents about the handful of sketchy things I witnessed or overheard. College was a totally different story. Nothing super unusual, but lots of binge-drinking, blowing off school and hooking up with boys indiscriminately, all of which of course I wanted my parents to know nothing about. In hindsight it was just dumb luck that I didn’t get assaulted or have my nudes all over the internet. Again, it’s not my parents fault, they couldn’t have waived a magic wand and given me friends, but given the choice my preference would definitely be for my own kids to have some experience with partying and dating in high school rather than saving all these experiences for college.
Anon
Also, my kids are currently in college. They weren’t teens in the 90s.
Stain help needed
I stained my favorite shirt and you guys are so good at this so hoping for recommendations. Shirt is 97% cotton and 3% spandex, stain is tomato sauce. Treated with oxyclean and washed on cold the day it happened. Air dried. It’s no longer red but you can still see a faint stain that’s almost like a pale orange on the light colored shirt. Is there any hope? What do I try next?
Cat
I am a broken record on this topic but Stain Devils. They have 9 different formulas that are designed based on the chemistry of the specific stain.
Anon
Degreaser. Not the stuff made for laundry/home use, but the stuff that comes in a gallon jug at the janitorial supply store. I used to work in food manufacturing and soaking clothes in a mop bucket of the same degreaser used to clean equipment saved many shirts from an early demise.
anon in brooklyn
Try dish detergent, tends to work on food stains that have a bit of oil in them.
Anon
+1 Dawn for anything/everything.
Anon
+1 to Dawn. It’s worked for me on old grease stains.
Mrs. Jones
Dawn!
TheElms
Miss Mouth’s Messy Eater stain removal spray. Really good for all food stains. A “secret” of baby/toddler moms everywhere.
Anon
Rubbing alcohol! I learned in the book Laundry Love that rubbing alcohol is excellent at breaking down organic stains (food, grass, etc). I even use it on stains after they’ve been dried and it works. Spray it on within 10 min of washing so that it’s “working” when you wash.
Anon
Rub some more oxyclean and water into it, scrub it with a toothbrush, and let it soak overnight. Then wash it on cold and hang it in the sun.
Anon
I just got curry stains out of a pale pink shirt this weekend using a bicarbonated soda powder covered with hot water to activate it. I let it cool a bit and then added the shirt. Let it sit over night and then washed on 30C in the morning. Stains are out.
For the Poster(s) about Parents and Diagnoses
For the posters discussing parents and diagnoses (ADD, ADHD, narcissism, etc) yesterday, this morning’s “Takeaway” might be interesting listening for you. WNYC 9-10 am interview with clinical psychologist Dasha Kipper (?sp). Not including link here in bid to avoid moderation.
Shelle
I’m sitting on the interview panel for a different team than the one I work in. I expect they’ll do the heavy lifting during the interviews but I want to contribute something. Can anyone recommend a question or two I could ask the candidates? Our work is separate but has some intersection. To use the teapot analogy, my team regulates teapot production, this other team is planning to hire someone to do long-term studies of tea leaf quality. Gosh I hope that analogy helps!
Anon
Maybe something about their preferred work style or how they think former colleagues would describe them? I assume the answers will be glossy/positive, but I think you’ll learn something if their answer folks on individual contributions/autonomy or teamwork, etc.
Ribena
One of the new questions on my org’s interview template is “could you tell me about a time when you made a mistake” with follow ons about how you fessed up, how you fixed it, etc
Anon
Am I the only one who finds the teapot thing to be (usually) more confusing than enlightening? I applied for in-house jobs and was interviewed by finance and business VPs, but those are groups who work closely with Legal.
Moving on: ask about how this person works with members of different departments. From your analogy, I’m struggling to understand what possible overlap there is, so it’s hard to give specific advice.
Anon
Agree. It’s also not like saying you’re in finance interviewing someone in IT is going to reveal who you are. I’ve done a lot of cross functional interviewing and your job isn’t to assess technical capabilities but rather soft skills and how well someone would integrate into your company culture. I usually listen and ask questions along those lines as they come up.
Anon
In some capacities, there are technical skills at play. For example, in my roles, the finance and business units want to ensure that the attorney has some knowledge of issues affecting their departments. Sometimes, the attorney advises on risk but is not the decision-maker; other times, the attorney can actually say that something is a deal breaker. Always, it’s important to flag issues for their review or situational awareness.
So what I want to know is if the departments work together in a manner in which some substantive knowledge is necessary.
Anon
No you are not!
Cat
I agree with you! I have no clue where AAM came up with that as their business example but it’s kind of incomprehensible in questions like this one.
Shelle
sigh I agree! I wrote this analogy out and then thought it made no sense even to me… Sorry everyone!
anon_needs_a_break
Yes, please don’t take space in an interview panel without contributing anything, You are there for a reason.
Good interview questions are targeted to the role and the candidate and the seniority level, so take this with a grain of salt, but I like scenario questions, where you either pose a hypo that could actually happen in this role (make it about how your team and this role intersect?) and ask them to walk through how they would approach it.
Or, “tell me about a time you made a mistake. What did you do once you realized it was a mistake? what did you learn?”
“Tell me about a time you had to give difficult feedback to a peer, supervisee, etc. How did you approach it?”
“Walk me through a team project you participated in and the specific role you played in contributing to its success”
“What part of this job description would be most challenging for you and why? Likewise, what part excited you the most and why?”
KS IT Chick
I have two go-to questions. tell me about a time that you can look back and go “well, that could have gone better“. What happened and how would you address it differently?
When you leave your current role, what can you point to as the department or organization is better for you having been there?
Both require some thinking about how you function within a larger framework.
Anon
I like this phrasing a lot better than Ribena’s question about a mistake. I’m 20 years into my career and still have a hard time thinking of a good example of something that I could truly call a mistake that would require confessing to someone, but there are lots of examples of times where I could have done better or done something differently. I think this is partially because I work in a field where it’s very normal for things to go wrong, so it would be strange to think of those as mistakes, just opportunities to learn and move on. Clearly there are things you could do that would truly be mistakes (fraud, abuse, etc.), but I haven’t done them, and I certainly wouldn’t talk about them in an interview if I had!
pugsnbourbon
These are great questions!
brokentoe
I always like to ask the question “Tell me something about you that I wouldn’t know from your resume.” It’s interesting to see how candidates think on their feet. Some go a professional direction and answer about something job-related while others go personal, like “I ride unicycles competitively.” Either way it’s illuminating.
Anonymous
I don’t like this. Putting someone off balance solely for the sport of seeing how they recover feels sort of ick. Also, interviewing time is so, so short. I’d much rather get a feel related to the role and team dynamics.
If you’re actually thinking long-term success and fit, that’s going to be far more”illuminating” than he was able to reference his unicycle hobby in 5 sec vs. Jane paused before she referenced her knitting. No one has time for games like that, especially as part of a panel.
Anon
Thank you. I am great at thinking on my feet, but this question would throw me. I also feel like you are punishing introverts: we think before opening our mouths. Furthermore, many people take pains to separate their competitive athletics, family care responsibilities, or political activism from their professional life, and asking about it during an interview can be tough.
Anon
Obvious one seems like, “What experience do you have working with someone in my role? What do you find has worked well? What are some of the most challenging issues you have worked on with [your team]?” That will allow you to assess whether their experience and approach is consistent with the qualifications of the person you’d expect to see in the role they’re being hired into. That’s the unique perspective you bring to the evaluation.
anon
My congressperson is likey retiring after this term, and I have long wanted to run. On the one hand it’ll be a good time to run because it’ll be an open seat. on the other hand, I just moved back here a couple of years ago (left after high school), and for a whole host of reasons I don’t feel ready. Also while it really is something I want to do in my life, there’s this other part of me that is quiet and tenderhearted and just wants to read and play with her dogs vs chasing ambitions like this. I don’t know what I’m looking for here, but I need to decide whether to go for it or not. Assuming this is the path I want to choose at some point in my life, should I just go for it? Are there reasons to wait, other than I just don’t feel like it right now?
Anonymous
Have you done anything to prepare? Are you connected to your local party groups? Do you have a source of funding? Do you have grassroots community ties? Have you held a lower public office? Do you understand how a loss would position you going forward?
Frankly your post reads like you have no clue what running for office is like. Maybe you do?
Anonymous
This. There are great organizations out there that teach women how to successfully run for office. Do some leg work and see if this is a viable option for you.
Anon
Concur with all of this and then some.
The question I have is how competitive an “outsider” would be in the district. Some are amendable to new people; some really only elect people who were born there.
Anon
Oh yeah the big one: fundraising. Who is going to give you $5M or more?
Anon
Since you only moved back recently, how involved are you in local politics and in the local political party that you’d want to be be nominated by? If you’re not well-connected and well-networked, you may not be ready yet. Maybe this is the time to focus on getting yourself well-positioned vs actually making the run.
anon
Running is the best way to get connected (spoken from experience). And you can win without being connected (my congressman grew up in the area and moved back a couple of years before and was not connected to the party). Also, challenging an incumbent is so, so hard, so this may be the only chance you have for decades, depending on how long the person stays in office.
I say ask yourself which worse outcome you would regret more. Imagine yourself in ten years – Would you regret not having run at all or running and losing?
Anonymous
It’s possible to win without being connected within a party but you need to be well connected in the community at large and have name recognition and community supporters in order to do that. OP may have that but her post doesn’t indicate anything about community involvement that is a typical precursor to elected office.
Anon
+1
AIMS
I say go for it if this is something you want to do in life. You never know when another opportunity will be available and getting your name out there can be helpful even if you don’t win for future opportunities. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good or by the time you’re ready you may have an incumbent there that stays for 30 more years.
Anon
I would start by asking myself if the timing will ever feel right. Few things in life happen when the timing is right.
anonshmanon
thissss
Anonymous
What is your experience in politics?
Anon
Couldn’t pay me enough to run for office, but you do you. Also second all the suggestions that you need to be connected. Most people start with smaller offices before moving to national elections, too.
theguvnah
If someone has not already approached you about running you have an uphill battle ahead of you – get connected asap to your local EMERGE or Run for Something or a similar network so you can get the connections and training you need.
To be clear, almost no one runs for congress and wins right out of the gate so I also encourage you to look at your local and state legislative races and possible openings. But the experience you could gain in running will set you up for future runs!
Anon
It’s like she woke up and said I think I’ll join Congress today . . .
Anon
Men do this all the time though. I’m kind of disappointed to see all these comments (not just yours). You couldn’t pay me a million dollars to run for Congress, but I think it’s great that other women want to. I really doubt men get so much pushback about their lack of experience.
Anon
There is a lot that goes in behind the scenes for a successful Congressional candidate. The questions here are valid: connections, fundraising, fit for the district.
Anon
Yeah, perhaps the trope is true about applying for jobs, but I’d find a man who just decided to run without connections, fundraising, etc. to also be deluded.
Anon
Yeah, I’m not going to try to talk OP out of this. Maybe she won’t be successful this time but there’s always a next time.
Women are far too good at talking ourselves out of things. Go for it, OP!
Cat
I am taking this as the Legally Blonde quote that I’m pretty sure it is…
Anon
Ding ding ding.
Anon
Your application for Congress is pink!
And it’s scented.
LawDawg
My neighbor was in Congress for a term recently. From watching her, I saw that running for office is a full-time job. She had visits to community centers, meet and greets in people’s homes, regular work with staff at her campaign office, etc. And fundraising! All of that so she could beat an incumbent and have an office across from Marjorie Taylor Green. She was redistricted out and lost her seat, but only after another grueling primary. Good luck to you on whatever decision you make.
Anon
Agreed, it is a ton of work to run for office if you want to have a shot.
Do it
Are you ready to do something about gun safety? If so, go for it. Ignore the haters.
Anon
Do you have literally any experience or connections with politics in your area? If not, and you have genuine aspirations, don’t do this now. You will not look good.
Anon
Weird job application situation, hoping this savvy group can help.
I applied to a job that’s a great fit for me on paper and immediately got an email from the hiring manager saying she was really enthused about my application and wanted to advance me to the interview stage but needed some more info (a cover letter and a few other documents like writing samples – this is fairly standard in my industry). I got her the requested info the next business day and reiterated my enthusiasm about the position in my email. I never heard anything more from her. I was disappointed, and kind of surprised because my written work product has always received great feedback, it’s interviews where I expected to falter. But I figured it is what it is, just move past it. This was over a month ago now. Today I got another email from her but it’s not a follow-up on our previous correspondence. It’s a new form email asking for the exact same documents (although the specifics are slightly tweaked) and interestingly (?) doesn’t say anything about being excited about me, just that she wants to advance my application to the next level if I provide these documents. How do I respond? Do I reference our prior communications or do I just pretend like this is brand new? And if I do the latter, how do I deal with the specific tweaks which would change what I send? Just send in new versions and ignore the old versions that were sent last month?
Anon
She probably didn’t get them. I’d reply and resend. The attachments might have been too big for her email system.
Cat
Hi Manager, so glad to hear from you! We corresponded about this role a few weeks ago but I wonder if my original reply to you on (date) got lost in cyberspace. In any event, I remain interested, and am attaching the requested supplemental information.
And, take a note about investigating how organized the hiring manager is.
Cat
Oh – and to the above poster’s idea about file size, if they are large attachments, I’d modify the last sentence. “In any event, I remain interested, and will send the requested supplemental information by separate cover due to file size.” (And then send them with different subject lines – Cat Materials 1 of 3, 2 of 3, 3 of 3)
Anon
Thanks I like your script! On the file size question, they were tiny files (Word docs with file sizes in the ~20 KB range). I can’t imagine they were bounced for being too big. If their servers can’t handle these kind of attachments, I don’t see how they could do business.
Anon
External attachments often get blocked. It’s not that unusual.
Anon
I recently drafted legislation – 3 pages – that got eaten. Y numerous spam filters.
Seattle Nat'l Parks
We are taking a cruise to Alaska out of Seattle in July and have added a few extra days to explore Seattle. We are renting a car from the airport for a day with the intention to check out one or several National Parks. It looks like Olympic, Mount Rainier, and North Cascades are all within striking distance but look to be in opposite directions. Is it a fair assumption we will only have time for one? Recommendations of which one to pick? Combine one with any state parks? Olympic looks to be most diverse (hot springs, Hoh forest, Pacific coast beach). We have elementary aged kids so are not looking for anything too strenuous but do enjoy pretty/interesting views and easier hikes. We are coming from the Midwest so it all should be novel. We’ve seen Rocky Mountain National Park as well as Yellowstone and Glacier within the last few years.
Anon
Yeah, I think you only have time for one. I’d vote for Olympic.
Anonymous
I think Olympic is too far for a day trip unless you plan to stay out on the peninsula – are you planning to stay in Seattle? We stayed in Port Townsend and did a day trip to the Hoh Rainforest and in hindsight felt it was too much driving. The speed limits aren’t that high. If you stay in Port Angeles you could see a lot. Port Townsend also looks really fun in the summer. I would do a whale watching trip if you can – seeing orcas in the wild is fun! The Hoh rainforest is also super cool if you can get out there.
AcademicDoc
So, all of these are a long day trip from Seattle. Unlike Yellowstone, Olympic and Rainier are mostly accessed from roads that circumnavigate the parks and then venture in rather than a network of roads within the park. I would recommend an offbeat choice: Rainier with an adventure to Ape Cave (https://www.wta.org/go-hiking/hikes/ape-cave) Ape Cave is a 2 mile long lava tube and it completely unique and amazing. When my wife and I lived in Seattle, we would use any excuse to go there and do the completely appropriate for elementary schoolers, completely dark, full length hike. Everyone we took thought we were totally nuts until we got there and then thought it was the highlight of their visit.
Anon
I would go to Mount St. Helens. It’s in the same direction as Mount Rainier and is really remarkable.
Anon
Also, Ape Cave is cool and close to Mt St Helens!
Anon
One day with a car is not going to be enough time for either park. I vote Whidbey Island. Drive up to Mukilteo, take the ferry, go to Fort Casey and Deception Pass. The north end is connected so you can drive back without taking a ferry. If you do the trip in reverse, I believe the ferry is free.
anon
If you’re not overnightning at the parks, then Mt. Rainier is possible as a day trip. The two main areas are Sunrise and Paradise. Olympic is a farther drive and more spread out, so it’s better to overnight for a few days. I know people who have gone to the Hoh rainforest as a day trip from Seattle but it’s a long day, and only to see that small part of Olympic.
Anon
I am used to boot cut jeans. I am wearing what I thought might be a modest flare. When I got to work and looked in the bathroom full-length mirror, OMG. I am wearing sails. SAILs. On my legs. I am not sure how I tunnel-visioned on whether the bottoms were dragging the ground and whether they were fitting in the seat area (normal challenge area, especially in an era of rigid denim). Maybe they are fine and my eye isn’t used to all this fabric. Jeans are otherwise great — a bit of stretch, current rise.
Anon
Own it, you’re way more on trend than with a modest flare. Go big or go home girl.
Anon
Sometimes when I’m in a bad mood or had a bad commute, when I get to work the outfit that I liked at home suddenly seems all wrong. The outfit is fine, it’s just my perspective has shifted. Any chance that’s what’s going on here? Your pants sound great.
Anon
Yeah, there’s a full length mirror in the ladies’ room at my office and sometimes I’m a little shocked by what I see.
anon
Haha, I had a similar experience recently. I guess, for once, I didn’t play it safe! I still like the jeans.
pugsnbourbon
I bet you look great! It’s a new silhouette, you just have to get used to it.
Anon
I’m still adjusting to non skinny jeans too, I think this reaction is normal. When I see them hanging in my closet the legs look massive. But when I see skinny jean outfits on other women they often look dated. I rarely see straight or flare jeans on other people and think they look too big. That must mean they look normal when I wear them.
Anon
I’m still wearing my skinny jeans, but mostly for weather where I have to wear boots. I’m looking forward to wearing my straight legs more this summer.
Anonymous
I LOVE flare jeans. I bet they look amazing. And in general, I think doing something big and intentional looks way better than a compromise.
Jane
TW: weightloss
My BMI is obesity level (not borderline but far within it). My doctor recently prescribed contrave after phentermine didnt work beyond the first few months. I thought it’d be covered by insurance but it is $200 and not covered by insurance! I feel that I have wasted loads of $$$$ on my weight over the years and this is going to be just another way (as was phentermine). Does anyone have success stories? Maybe I should simply opt for surgery but I am 36 and don’t have kids and someone once told me it is ideal to wait until after. Appreciate all feedback/thoughts, please be kind.
Anon
Isn’t that just Wellbutrin? Can you get that cheaper? I lost 30 pounds on Wellbutrin, though that wasn’t why I was taking it. I kept the weight off for a long time and only regained it when I was on a different drug that caused weight gain and dealing with other health problems that kept me from exercising or eating normally. Then I took topamax (for m*graine), lost the weight again, and have kept it off for five years so far. So my n of 1 says drugs can definitely help, though I also have a lot of other health issues that make it complicated.
Anon
Contrave is a particular dose of Wellbutrin plus time release low dose naltrexone.
Wellbutrin can get expensive too depending on insurance, and time release LDN would have to be compounded, but maybe it would be cheaper to go custom!
Anon
You may want to look into Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). If you aren’t able to set a reasonable calorie goal in My Fitness Pal and stick to it, it’s likely a psychological issue, not a physical issue. CBT / DBT helped me. I found The DBT Solution for Emotional Eating by Debra Safer very helpful. I’m anti drugs and anti surgery.
Trixie
See if you can buy this medication in Canada…look at Mark’s Marine Pharmacy. Also, think about Ozempic or a similar drug, also available in Canada.
Anon
Ozempic is so different from Contrave! And I will be surprised if insurance coverage is better.
pugsnbourbon
You might have already tried this, but you can use GoodRx instead of insurance or see if the pharmacy itself has any discounts.
Senior Attorney
I am a proponent of weight loss surgery — I had a sleeve gastrectomy in 2010 and have never looked back and would do it again in a red-hot second. If “someone” once told you you should wait after having kids, my suggestion is to meet with a surgeon and find out if that’s actually true, and what your options are.
Anon
I would definitely try Wegovy or Ozempic first though; there are new options now.
Anonymous
I had weight loss surgery several years ago and it was hands down the best thing I’ve ever done for my own self care. I had spent years and so much money on managing my weight, including All The Things, and weight loss surgery is the only tool that truly, effectively did something. Go talk to a surgeon. See what your options are.
If you’re looking at meds, you should go straight to the semaglutides like Ozempic, Mounjaro, or Wegovy.
Sunshine
Also maybe check costplusdrugs dot com? The pharmacy started by Mark Cuban. I’ve heard good things from one person who uses it and says she has saved a lot of money.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. I can hear stress in your post.
Anon
My husband was prescribed Contrave for weight loss and it worked fabulously for him. He had never tried any other weight loss medications before, so I can’t compare it to other drugs, but I know it worked really well for him. Good luck!
Anon
Oh and also, it is covered by his insurance. Maybe you need to escalate the issue and talk to a supervisor at the insurance company. In my husband’s case, the insurance company required extra documents from his doctor before they approved it, IIRC.
Anon
Has anyone ordered from Magic Linen? How’s the quality? Specifically the Royal Toscana dress?
Anonymous
I have their dish towels and love them. Very nice quality, wash well.
Trish
This top looks so cheap to me.
brokentoe
It’s polyester and looks like something you could find at TJMaxx for $19.99.
Anon
I absolutely love this color though
Anonymous
It’s 100% polyester, it *is* cheap.
For $200+ I expect it to be natural fiber and constructed well enough that I can wear it multiple times a week for a decade.
Anon
Same. The color is not a good one for me so everything about this top looks ugly to me. I thought it was from the Nordstrom brand CeCe, which seems to specialize in this particular kind of look and gets terrible reviews.
Prenup attorney NYC
Hi, Can anyone recommend a great attorney who can help with a prenup for my best friend in NYC? He has children from a prior marriage, and there is an income discrepancy although both are high earners. Thank you in advance for any recommendations!
Anon
I used Luisa DeRose based on a recommendation from here and she was great. I also have a child from a prior marriage and an income discrepancy.
NYCer
I’m in T&E, and we often refer to Alter Wolff & Foley for prenups and divorces.
Anon
NYC street fashion report:
I was in NYC last week on a family vacation (which was fabulous, but quite expensive. Worth it, though). I always enjoy being in big cities so I can see how fashion trends are getting translated from the runway/magazines/blogs long before they will ever reach my Southwestern city. We were mostly in Midtown but ventured to the Upper East and Upper West sides, as well as Greenwich Village.
Being as it is still March and NYC was pleasant, but still pretty chilly, most women were wearing puffer coats and leggings with boots (saw a lot of Blundstones but also some Hunter wellies and chelsea boots, although it seemed like most boots were above the ankle). Puffers ranged from Canada Goose and Moncler to North Face (which has gotten very very fashion-y – I shopped the Soho store and they are definitely more “street fashion” in that store than “outdoor adventures”) and Old Navy, and all were long (to the knee; did not see any at the waist or low hip). Lots of fur-lined hoods. Again, probably dictated by the weather conditions.
Outside of puffer coats, leggings and boots, I also saw:
– Lots of precisely-tailored/fitted robe-style (no buttons) belted wool coats, worn with straight-leg pants and chelsea leather boots.
– Menswear-inspired suits (saw one woman in the UES wearing a full-on tweed pantsuit complete with waistcoat and chunky loafers; she looked fabulous). Saw lots of big double-breasted blazers worn with skinny pants and boots.
– Most jeans were straight-leg but I still saw plenty of skinnies, even if they weren’t tucked into tall boots.
– Lots and lots and lots and lots of Nikes. Occasionally I’d see a pair of chunky loafers or a pair of Golden Gooses, but not often. Nike seems to be the footwear of the city and I completely understand why.
– Lots of folks in big funky eyeglasses; inspired me to start looking for another pair to supplement my current frames.
– Lots and lots and lots of Prada and Telfar bags. Prada (or the knockoff-makers) must be making a killing in NYC as every third woman on the street had a Prada bag, especially in Midtown. Not much LV. I saw a few well-worn nylon Longchamps.
What I didn’t see:
– Light-wash (or dark-wash, or any-wash) flares. I think flares are just too impractical for navigating NYC streets.
– Bright colors – coats were neutrals (beige, cream, black, browns, etc.). Big blazers were mostly in neutrals although I did see a couple of red or yellow blazers.
– High heels on the street, even high-heeled boots, even on Park Avenue on the UES where we saw several Escalades, Navigators and other cars idling outside buildings waiting to pick people up (so these aren’t people who are hiking the urban landscape). I did not see many heels being sold in stores, either, and I shopped along 5th avenue and in Soho.
Anon
Thanks for the update! I always enjoy posts like this.
PolyD
This was such a fun post to read.
Speaking as someone who grew up in a cold place, your jacket absolutely must cover your butt for maximum warmth! And I imagine that because flat jeans are generally worn longer (I think?), wearing them when it’s wet and sloppy is no fun. Or maybe they’re just colder to wear because of all the air blowing up your hems.
Anon
I live in NYC and this is why I always scratch my head at some of the advice here, especially for people visiting here. The vast majority of people here dress for the weather and their commute and do not look like instagram influencers. I work near SoHo so I see much more of the influencer inspired crowd than normal, but it’s still maybe only every 5th person on the street.
Curious what Prada bags you spotted — I don’t see a lot of Prada downtown (it’s one of my favorite brands).
NYCer
Totally agree re the fashion advice in general for NYC.
I am surprised by the leggings and boots comment though… I feel like I rarely see that look. Also, I see way more New Balance sneakers than Nike (at least on middle aged women – aka my demographic).
Anon
OP here – I wasn’t just looking at middle-aged women, or especially “fashion-y” people; was looking at everyone I saw, wherever we were, which included on the subway (and in the subway stations), in restaurants, in museums, at Lincoln Center, etc.
Anonymous
+1
Anon
This is a fun report! Thank you. Personally I’m waiting until winter is over and I’m not wearing Blundstones anymore before wearing flared pants; perhaps we will see more flares as the weather improves and people can wear them with dressier shoes/sandals.
Heels are dead! I will never wear heels again.
Anon
+1 to heels, but I also don’t have a driver and an Escalade to take me everywhere
Anon
On a related note, what is a cool pair of Nikes to buy?
highlander
Nike Air Force 1s in black and white (or white and black). Source: I work in Midtown.
Anon
Air Force 1s
Sallyanne
Jordan 1 or 4s, Dunks. My daughter is a sneaker head and I swear every time I’m out with her she will be randomly complimented on her shoes.
Shelle
Thank you for the report!
Anon
I do not understand the love for Nike. I feel like they did Allyson Felix dirty and that saga soured me on them as a brand.
Anon
+1
Anon
Thank you so much! I love this type of post!
Anon
I’m crawling up a wall hoping to hear back after a job interview. What do you do during times like this to keep yourself sane and able to focus at work (especially a job you’re actively trying to leave ha).
Anon
Apply for more jobs!
Senior Attorney
I think this is the objectively correct answer.
Also: get a massage, go for a walk or run, meet a friend for drinks after work.
Anonymous
+1. I start applying to stretch roles – stuff I’m qualified for but may not look it on paper. I also think about what my salary counter might be if they offer me the role, because historically I tend to get excited about the offer and not negotiate. I’m working on it.
Anne-on
Anyone else want to vent about health issues? I am SO annoyed at the money/time/effort it is taking me to address and fix the health issues that my boomer parents ignored or denied existed at all for YEARS. My kid/nieces/nephews are dealing with the same sorts of hereditary issues now and I simply can’t imagine telling them to suck it up or that they are being dramatic the way I was dismissed my entire childhood. I empathize with the fact that having this stuff addressed would have cost money which is a big trigger for my mom but we had very good insurance that would have covered this stuff. It is also so not helpful that my parents either verbally shrug this stuff off as ‘oh that would have been expensive so we didn’t look into it’ or the tried and true ‘you turned out just fine though!’ They also wonder why we’re not close but refuse all discussions of therapy or accountability.
Anon
My doctors took me really seriously, and my doctors did not. So I guess have the same gripe but it’s about pediatricians. I could not believe what a big difference it made when I turned 18 and saw specialists who took me seriously instead of brushing everything off as something that “will probably go away” when I was older (and not their problem anymore!) which is definitely not what happened.
I’m really sorry you’re having to feel these kinds of feelings about your own family though. I think it probably helped me that they were in my corner even if though there wasn’t a lot they could do.
Anon
Ugh I meant my parents took me seriously, and my doctors did not.
I’m glad your kid and the whole next generation is benefiting for your advocacy!
Anon
These describes me perfectly with generalized anxiety and ADHD. My boomer parents were very religious and absolutely balked at me being diagnosed with that sort of thing growing up. I ended up having to deal with it myself in my late twenties, after much harmful behavior that could have been mitigated had I been treated sooner.
Anon
My mother has always refused to tell me what kind of breast cancers (yes plural) she has had. I have flat out said “What’s its name?” “Oh, it’s about 1 centimeter.” “That’s not what I asked. What KIND?” Crickets on the phone. With my chronic, hereditary physical condition: “Oh, I thought you outgrew that.” SO infuriating. I learned long ago to just get the info myself. Advocacy for ME.
Jewelry Recommendations
My daughter has requested (at my suggestion) a piece of diamond jewelry for her high school graduation. Where should I look? Will either go for a necklace or earrings.
Anon
I would like to put in a plug for your local jeweler. I use mine quite a lot and not only do they have unique stuff you can buy at competitive prices, but if they have a full bench they can repair or refashion jewelery you already have.
For middle school grad I got my daughter a dainty white gold 16” chain with teeny tiny diamonds every inch or so. For high school graduation, I bought her an 18” gold chain with a sapphire pendant, with a teeny tiny diamond at the top of the pendant. Both pieces are small/delicate and didn’t break the bank (in the mid to low hundreds, not thousands)
MJ
Lightbox has gorgeous lab grown diamonds in white, blue and pink, very reasonably priced. Recommend.
Anon
Elsa Peretti Diamonds by the Yard are gorgeous, IMO.
Anonymous
What are your go-to wording and phrases for condolence notes? Especially for acquaintances or professional contacts–basically where you are not close to the note recipient and do not know the deceased.
This may be a “me” problem, but I have the hardest time writing something non-repetitive and sincere-sounding/sincere in these types of notes. And despite my best intentions, it’s the barrier to me sending a quick card or text/email when hearing about a death.
Anon
“Thinking of you during these difficult times. My condolences on your loss” works if you don’t know the deceased and are not close with the note recipient.
Anon
I think you just keep it short and simple and focused on the person you know. My dad died a few years ago on the young side for his age/ my peer group’s parents, and I don’t remember anything specific any one person said, but I remember who did send a card or message. I think the thought counts much more than the actual words, so don’t overthink it.
“Dear Emily,
I am so sorry to hear about the death of your mother. [if you ever met her, or your colleague would regularly mention something specific, you can note it here, [ i.e., I remember you always saying your mother was the first college graduate in your family; loved baking cookies with Ava and Alex, etc.].
Please know I am thinking about you during this difficult time.
[Signature].”
Anon
It might sound weird, but I was reading an article recommending using Chat GPT to write thank you letters and condolence notes. You can give it a prompt like “write a condolence letter to the widow of a former colleague” and it will spit something out that will be surprisingly on point or at least a good jumping off point. It might at least help with writer’s block, since it is easier to edit something than start from a blank page.
Senior Attorney
The best condolence card I ever got was one from a not-very-close colleague when my father in law passed away: “It’s always too soon to say goodbye to someone you love.”
Also? Don’t worry about being original. The act of sending the note, rather than the contents, is the important thing (although do avoid things like “everything happens for a reason” — ugh).
If the mourner is Jewish
May you know no more sorrow, and may you be comforted by the mourners of Zion.
Monday
Succession viewers– any thoughts on the season premiere? (Spoilers may follow)
I’m less enthused by the show at this point. I know it’s pretty much always just been different arrangements of family members being snarky in glamorous places…but I found myself getting a bit bored. The plot I’m most interested in rn is Connor and his ludicrous presidential run and engagement.
I suspect Logan will pull something to threaten the kids’ financing of the corporate purchase, and the game will be back on with only a slight modification, which is what keeps happening.
Anonymous
Why is there a person named Shiv
Monday
It’s a nickname for Siobhan, which sounds like “Shiv-on.”
Anon
I knew a Siobahn as a kid and it boggled my hooked-on-phonics-not-Irish mind how it was pronounced.
Anonymous
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEgSU5RU2Xo
Anon
The Connor storyline always feels made-up and pallid vs the others, IMO. Like I get the tension with an older kid with a different mom, but it just feels weak. And why make Willa a stripper? She seems more on-the-ball than him, TBH and maybe the sort of boring executive stripper that a rich guy would see (OTOH, I used to work near M street — you never know I guess).
Anon
She wasn’t a stripper. She was a “party girl” much like a yacht girl.
Anon
Ah, my husband can’t get that those are different. He described Willa as a stripper and as a devotee of Nikki/Victor Newman, I never thought it was otherwise.
AIMS
Willa was an “escort” and she wrote a play that Connor financed before the presidential ambitions took over. Her accepting his proposal with “why not” or whatever it was that she said remains amazing.
Monday
Yes–she said “f___ it,” which pretty much says it all about her faith in this relationship!
Anon
The fun fact that Roman had employed her first…. Of course, now given what we know about Roman, they probably never had actual s3x, so..
Monday
My impression was that Willa was originally trying to launch a creative career, as she mentioned writing a play in an earlier season. I assumed Connor saw her as sophisticated arm candy. She may have lost track of her other life goals as she realized she can have Roy money forever. She obviously can’t stand Connor, but it’s about what he can do for her (as in every relationship in the family).
Yes, this plotline is silly compared to the others. The fact that it’s most compelling to me right now is due to my boredom with the main story.
Anon
She was that (creative) but also doing the “party girl” work on the side.
Party girl is what Roman referred to her as so I’m sticking with that terminology.
Senior Attorney
Yeah, my take is that she was definitely some kind of sex worker.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Anon
I’m now starting to feel that Willa is the only relatable and likeable character.
Senior Attorney
I enjoyed watching those awful people being awful whilst swanning around in fabulously expensive clothes and apartments, but I wasn’t super into the story. That said, I will most definitely keep watching.
Oh, and I laughed way too hard at the snarkiness about Greg’s date’s Burberry bag!
Anon
That was so funny. The whole Tom / Greg dynamic is always hysterical.
Monday
Yes, the disdainful comment about how she probably puts her work shoes in there for her subway commute was right on the nose. Regular working people in NYC? Ew.
Anonymous
Ha!
anon
And her tupperware for lunch. LOL.
Anon
I watch it for the real estate.
Senior Attorney
Same. Tom and Shiv’s apartment? OMG!
Anon
I loved it honestly but I am all in. It’s so interesting to me to think about possible ways it could go, particularly since Logan’s health seems to be going the wrong way – Marcia shopping in Milan forever, Kerry stepping in as assistant/advisor/friend (yeah right) and him telling Colin that he’s his best pal.
Especially Logan missing his kids at his birthday party and asking his sycophants to “roast him” because his kids (other than Connor) would absolutely be doing that.
Anon
This episode was super boring imo.
Anon
I’ve read that the first two episodes of the season are setting up the story for the season finale, so hang in there if you otherwise like the show.
Anon8
Brandon Taylor had a piece in the New Yorker yesterday that speaks directly to the repetitiveness of the plot, and how this last season upends that because the show is ending. I LOVE Succession, so I’m very excited to see how the rest of the season unfolds.
AIMS
I think this is part of why this is the last season – if the show continued and every season was just more of the same Logan vs. –, it would just become a comedy (and only a comedy). I also think every season starts off slowly so I wouldn’t assume that it doesn’t pick up soon. And the dynamics this year are interesting to me. I also find the dialogue so well written that I almost don’t care about the plot.
puppy love
Update: I posted a few weeks ago about a foster to adopt puppy. Little one ended up needing more than I could provide in terms of company/family/canine friends so everyone agreed it was not the right fit. I am incredibly sad. Can I get your stories about how this doesn’t mean I am terrible with animals and this is all meant to be? Very discouraged right now.
Anon
You are not terrible. You have a heart of gold for agreeing to foster. Keep going, keep fostering – your ideal dog is out there! Which I say as the permanent human companion of a dog on his 4th home. :) He’s perfect for us, he wasn’t perfect for the other three, and that’s ok.
Anon
Foster dogs can be hard! I have a friend who adopted the sweetest dog who didn’t make it through 3 other placements, and they have no idea why because she is perfect for them. A lot of it I think is out of your control, but you can feel good you provided a safe/ kind environment for the time you did. Your forever dog is out there I am sure.
puppy love
Thanks everyone! I loved him so much and wanted to make it work, but it didn’t seem that I could give him his ideal environment once it became clearer what that was. So I feel like a failure, and that I was sort of broken up with by my (foster) dog and his rescue org. These comments make me feel a lot better.
Anon
It might have been the particular pup was not a good fit, or it may be that any puppy will not be a good fit. They are so much work, relentlessly so. Maybe you need a dog who is 3 or 7 or 10. They have so much to give! And even if you are not meant to have any dog, that doesn’t make you a bad person. Getting a dog that you cannot/do not handle? That’s the wrong move for you and especially for the dog.
Anon
+1 my dog was 5 and the poor guy was so paranoid every time we took him anywhere. I think he was instinctively worried he was going to get rehomed again. He just wanted to stay home! Still does, but less trembling now when we go somewhere, because he’s learning we always go back home.
His bad habit was destructive chewing (and I do mean destructive) and he does still chew, but a lot of it was anxiety related and now that he’s more comfortable, he only chews things that are intended to be chew toys (mostly) after a destructive first few months with us.
Anon
Puppies are so hard! I only made mine work because I lived across the street from my office at the time and could literally walk back during the day and let him out. I am all about the adult dogs now as my life is busier and I just don’t have the bandwidth for the peeing indoors and eating nice leather shoes, etc.
A few months back, my friend was fostering the cutest pup and needed to go out of town, so I watched him for a weekend. This pup was dog-calendar-adorable. But it turned out he just wasn’t my jam. He wasn’t my friend’s jam either. So even though both of us could have taken on another dog if we had fallen in love, he just wasn’t the dog for us, and the pup rotated to another foster home after my friend’s fostering “term” was up.
This experience was actually good news for you because now you know more about what works for you for a pet.
Anonymous
This is why fostering is great! You learned that this pup was not the right fit for you so you didn’t have a failed adoption, and the rescue learned more about what kind of home he needs. Keep trying if you still want a dog, and think about what worked and what didn’t work about this one.