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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Relaxed Split-Neck Floral Top

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I love an unexpected winter floral. This “ochre floral” top is bright and cheery without looking overly spring-y. (I had to Google what “ochre” was and discovered that it is a yellowy-brown, naturally-occurring pigment. Never too old to learn your colors, folks!) I would wear this split-neck top with navy or gray bottoms. The top is machine washable, but I would avoid putting it in the dryer if you can. I find that Old Navy tops, particularly the rayon ones, hold up better if you can air dry them.

The top is $29.99 and available in sizes XS–XXL and plus sizes 1X–4X (for $36). (If you like this pattern, check out the sleeveless top and sweatshirt — plus sizes only.) Relaxed Split-Neck Floral Top

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Sales of note for 4/21/25:

  • Nordstrom – 5,263 new markdowns for women!
  • Ann Taylor – 25% off tops & sweaters + extra 40% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50%-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Boden – 10% off new womenswear styles
  • Brooks Brothers – Friends & Family Sale: 30% off sitewide
  • The Fold – 25% off selected lines
  • Eloquii – $29+ select styles + extra 40% off all sale
  • Everlane – Spring sale, up to 70% off
  • J.Crew – Spring Event: 40% off sitewide + extra 50% off sale styles + 50% swim & coverups
  • J.Crew Factory – 40%-70% off everything + extra 70% off clearance
  • Kule – Lots of sweaters up to 50% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Earth Day Sale: Take 25% off eco-conscious fabrics. Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Madewell – Extra 30% off sale + 50% off sale jeans
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 50% off last chance styles; new favorites added
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 30% off entire purchase w/Talbots card

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

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420 Comments

  1. If you had a trip planned to the United Arab Emirates in the next week, would you still plan to go given tensions in the Middle East right now or would you walk away (no refund)?

    1. I’d go. DJT seems to have dialed back the cray-cray so I doubt anything else is going to happen.

      1. Am I the only one who mentally reads this as Deejay Trump? Just me? Ok then, nevermind.

    2. I think that planes are rerouting around Iranian air space. I checked flightradar24 (addicting actually) last night and the skies of the world are full of planes. It may be scrupulously safe at the moment (which doesn’t rule out knuckleheads, but nothing does). Lockerbie was not expected to happen there vs something in the UAE, so you truly never know. Safe travels if you do go.

    5. I would try to confirm that the plane isn’t flying over Iran (but I assume they’re not) and then I’d go. There’s no conflict involving the UAE.

    6. In terms of immediate risk from DJT, I wouldn’t be worried, but I’d also be looking for any reason to cancel going somewhere where women can be arrested for being raped. YMMV.

      1. Well there’s an easy solution, just don’t get raped ‾\_(ツ)_/‾

        (sarcasm obviously – but that’s the solution of the govt there on this issue)

        2. Nah, I don’t put my tourism dollars into countries that treat women like garbage. If it’s a business trip, I’d urge my business not to send people there.

          1. Curious — would you go to China or Russia? Because both of those countries have egregious human rights abuses. So I’m wondering about the limits of your principles.

          2. No, I would not visit China or Russia for tourism purposes. However, I would visit a family member who lives in (and has always lived in) one of those countries. It’s not his fault that that’s the world he lives in. I don’t object to anyone visiting family in any country, but I do object to people uncritically visiting countries that are so ~glamorous~ and ~wealthy~ while being completely, thoroughly opposed to treating women as human beings.

          3. Me either. I love the USA, and a few other places, like Cancun. I am NOT a fan of alot of other places which won’t name overseas. With all of the things to see and do here in the USA, I figure with all of the BS going on, that, I will stay here rather than travel to any these other places. FOOEY on these places! Now it turns out that Iran shot down their own plane. Alot of innocent citizens were killed from alot of different countries including Ukraine, Canada and Iran. It’s just not worth it when virtualy any schlub can press the button and a misile can shoot an airplane out of the sky. TRIPLE FOOEY!

    7. I’d go. I think tensions can flare up again but I think we’re done for this round — so I’m betting things will be all quiet for your trip next week; I’d be more concerned about a trip next month or in 6 mos because who knows where we’ll be at then.

    8. thanks all for the perspective! my biggest concern is that the carrier I’m flying is NOT rerouting and the flight path will go over both Iraq and Iran.

      1. I would not be willing to fly over Iran or Iraq and I would also not willingly visit the UAE for the above-mentioned human rights issues.

        1. JfC – you know that Italian courts have ruled that a r@pe victim didn’t have standing because of her tight jeans. I bet you’d still go to Italy though. Or Brazilian domestic violence rates are sky high and police largely turn the other way? But you’d still go to Carnival. You’re virtue signaling

          1. I think it’s self-preservation, not virtue signaling, to want to avoid a country where someone like you (a foreign professional woman) has been threatened with jail or jailed because of reporting rape while still going to countries that treat people who are differently situated in appalling and unacceptable ways.

        1. I just got back from the UAE a few days ago. We weren’t there when Iran retaliated, but were there for the embassy issues and for the drone assasination. We did receive state department email warnings, but otherwise, everything felt as per usual over there. We flew home on an unaltered flight path (i.e. over Iran and Iraq). I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t nervous and gald to come home, but my experience while there was totally fine and nothing felt out of sorts.

  2. What are your favorite furniture stores? I’m on the hunt for a tall wood cabinet I can put in my living/dining area that can store platters, vases, etc. I don’t want glass doors on it. I’ve looked at pottery barn, crate and barrel, and west elm, restoration hardware, and haven’t had any luck. My style is transitional.

      3. +infinity! Assuming it’s in your price range and you like contemporary-leaning styles. The quality is hard to beat (and also mostly American made)!

        Also if you want to go more modern, Blu Dot is another one to check out.

        1. I had the opportunity to touch and feel some Blu Dot case goods recently and I was so impressed. Beautiful stuff. Solid and high quality.

    4. I have a Shaker pantry, which is somewhat like you’re describing. I bought it at an unfinished furniture store and they offered them in one door or two. Mine is one door and fits nicely in a corner of my kitchen.

    5. I’m a big fan of browsing Overstock and Wayfair for anything I wouldn’t need to try out in person before buying.

    6. I really like the wood furniture by Gat Creek, which is handmade Amish furniture. I would check out their style, and find a local store if you like it.

    7. If you are at all near Pennsylvania, check out some of the Lancaster County furniture stores (specifically recommend Lancaster Handcraft — they delivered to us in DC). It sounds like you want something solid wood and pretty classic in style, so I think this could be a good option and a better value).

      1. Yup. Penn Dutch Furniture in Shrewsbury, PA is just over the Maryland line….beautiful Amish made furniture (the Ohio made is better than the PA made and costs a bit more but higher quality). Almost all of our furniture is from there and Gish’s Furniture (also Amish made). Everything is made to order so pick your style, wood, finishes, etc. and can take 8-12 to have it made and delivered.

    8. For wood furniture, I usually check out consignment shops. I also like Ethan Allen and they have a decent selection of transitional styles, although I don’t know if they’ll have exactly what you’re looking for.

    9. If there’s a Nadeau near you, I’ve found some great things there at stellar prices.

    10. You didn’t say where you’re located. If you’re in DC check out Warehouse Showrooms in Alexandria — it’s along the same lines as the recommendation for Lancaster Handicraft and for the manufacturer Gat Creek; they have all American made, hard wood/real wood furniture, which can be customized if you want it bigger/smaller/more or less shelves or whatever at a very reasonable price. If near Richmond, same thing can be found at Greenfront Furniture.

      If you’re looking for another manufacturer recommendation like Gat Creek: Country Classic Collection.

      1. If you’re in DC, stalk FB Marketplace. Amazing deals there where people are moving and just don’t have room for stuff/can’t take it with them.

      2. Oh wow, thanks for this rec for Warehouse Showrooms. I’m the anon that suggested Lancrafter Handcraft and am now drooling.

  3. Seeking recs for microblading in the DMV if anyone has them. (I’m in Alex, but willing to travel for the right aesthetician.)

    1. I used to live in Arlington and we called the area NoVa. I had thought that DMV referred to Dallas? Catch me up on the lingo change!

      1. DMV is DC-Maryland-Virginia, i.e. the greater DC area. NoVa is Northern Virginia, a subset of the DMV.

        1. Interesting — I always associated DMV with Dallas and Metroplex (or something similar) with Houston. “Tri-State Area” will always be NY-NJ-CT suburbs, but I know that there are many, regionally.

          1. Isn’t that DFW? I’m not from that area at all so could definitely be wrong, but I don’t remember seeing DMV associated with Dallas.

          2. I’ve moved back and forth between Dallas and DC my whole life. Dallas refers to itself as DFW or “the metroplex” (I’ve never heard that for Houston?). The DC area now refers to itself as “the DMV” but before ~2008 it was definitely NoVa.
            Not that I’d expect anybody outside these areas to know or care, but just to clear up confusion :)

          3. Yeah I grew up in the Houston area and now live in Dallas. Metroplex and DFW both refer to Dallas-Fort Worth. Houston has never been called the Metroplex.

          4. NoVa is and always has been Northern Virginia. The DC suburbs on the Maryland side have never referred to themselves as NoVa/Northern Virginia, nor has DC proper ever called itself NoVa/Northern Virginia. That’s absurd. (Possible exception for an ironic reference or two.) OP said DMV because presumably she was interested in going beyond NoVa where she lives to, say, Silver Spring.

      2. I’ve only lived in the Midwest and California, so not an expert in any of these areas but I always thought DMV was DC/MD/VA, ie., DC metro. I’ve never heard it used to describe Dallas. Are you thinking of DFW – Dallas-Ft Worth (which is the airport call sign)?

    3. Dollistic! they just moved to McLean, but I had a great experience there. Some friends have also gone to Ella Esthetics and liked their result. Both are pricey, but I think this is something where you definitely get what you pay for, judging from friends’ results who went to cheaper places.

  4. I just want to say a big “thank you” to this board for giving me some confidence over the years that recently helped me do two things that Past Me (circa 2016/2017) would not have done:
    – I’m in biglaw and was on maternity leave for part of 2019. As a result of rolling off deals before my baby was born, I didn’t hit my hours to automatically get a bonus (I’m 35 hours short of the target). However, there’s apparently some room for discretion w/r/t bonuses when people have gone on leave, but it’s totally unclear how that analysis works, how much is just a rumor/myth/lip service. So, I wrote an email to my practice group leader asking to be deemed eligible for a bonus and explaining why I thought I should be. Past me would have just thought that someone else would do that for me (I often give people the benefit of the doubt that they have my best interests at heart in addition to their own). It’s unclear at the moment if it will work out, but I’m proud of myself for sending the email and fighting for myself.

    – I started this a bit in 2019, but I’m making a bigger push in 2020 to “just do the thing” when it comes to work. I’m not waiting for my more senior colleagues to respond to an email we’re all copied on when I know the answer to the question being asked, etc. It’s only resulted in a handful of more than one of us emailing and only once has it been contradicting information (and it was not critical information at that).

    3. Way to go! I am still kicking myself for not arguing for raises/bonuses in the years I was pregnant/on maternity leave. My compensation stagnated for 3 years and I doubt I’ll ever close that gap.

    4. Good job! Thanks to this board and AAM I stayed strong, didn’t disclose salary at my last job (where I was sorely underpaid), asked the recruiter to give me THEIR salary range (higher than I would have asked!) and made a big bump in my base pay when I moved firms. Boards like these really help close the gap in ‘soft’ skills that I didn’t learn in college or from family who weren’t ever white-collar professionals.

  5. Inspired by a recent AAM question – how can you best advise friends who complain/seek advice about answering the same question over and over? I went through this when I got divorced. Tons of people ask if you’re ok. Some are prying, and that’s not cool and is a different issue. But for the most part, it’s just one-off questions that are exhausting due to the volume not because any individual question is out of line. Looking back on it, though, I’m really grateful that so many people cared enough to ask if I was OK. I wish I’d had a more positive outlook at the time. Every once in a while, a friend or family member will have a loss or tragedy or disability (similar to the AAM LW) and the complain about the same pattern (lots of “are you oks”) and have the same reaction I did. I’d like to pass along my experience, but I’m not sure if that’s overstepping? I realize this question is a bit in the abstract, I’m just curious about everyone’s thoughts.

    1. Figure out three levels of response – 1 for acquaintances to that appreciated caring but don’t really want to get into details with ‘still working through the legal stuff with the divorce, looking forward to finishing with that so I can move on, how’s your work/how are your kids’; 2 for friends that you are comfortable sharing more detail with and 3 for the BFF type friends that you really want to vent to. Pre-planning your level 1 response is key to not feeling overwhelmed with all of the ‘how are you’ questions

      1. This is what I do – I’m in a long-term situation with my spouse that is terminal and obvious (disability, progressive, hospital stays). Lots of well-intentioned questions. I try not to mind, and some days are better than others. (one pitch I’ll make – ask how the spouse is doing! They are often just as impacted, but more invisibly, and in different ways).

    2. First, ask if they’d like some advice or whether they’re really just looking to vent. If they’re just venting, resist the urge to say anything at all, even if that means excusing yourself from the conversation. If you do advise them, I might frame the advice as “here’s some perspective” rather than prescriptive advice that dismisses how they’re feeling, and tells them how they should be feeling or behaving. I’d probably say something like “I totally get that, I used to be frustrated by that too! But in hindsight, I think about how lonely and neglected I’d feel if no one checked in with me, so I’m glad people did. You don’t want to push those people away.”If you’re really knowledgable about setting boundaries in a diplomatic way, you can offer to coach people on how to do that.

    3. I was really glad to read that AAM question because there are so many circumstances where it feels rude no matter what I do. Don’t ask and that feels rude; ask and that feels rude. As an example, a family moved into my neighborhood and we had them over for dinner. We had literally only met them a couple of times. Then my husband noticed the husband was in a wheelchair. We didn’t know if he had a disability or had an injury. We wanted to reach out to offer help if he had been in an accident or something but we didn’t know the situation so we did nothing.

      Then we ran into them MONTHS later. We assumed they never got back in touch because they didn’t really like us or something. Turns out, the husband had been in a bad accident and broke a lot of bones and was in a wheel chair for a few months while he went through surgery. They were relying on lots of help from family, friends, work and even a couple of neighbors. We absolutely would have helped them and felt terrible for not reaching out.

      But, my fear was exactly what the AAM letter was about. Maybe he just had a disability he hadn’t mentioned at dinner, wasn’t really that into being friends with us, and didn’t need someone else snooping with “what did you do???”

      Same with deaths in the family or major medical issues. Some people want to come back to work and pretend life is normal. Other people are offended to come back and not have people see if they are okay. I usually email my colleague, let them know I’m there for them and if they want to talk when they return, I’m there, but I’m not going to ask them in case they want work to be their “normal” place.

    4. I have asked my husband this repeatedly throughout the last six months, and am genuinely seeking advice.

      Ideally, there would be a script that I can rehearse, and most importantly, a second script to politely shut down people who didn’t get the hint the first time.

      (Exact issue is that I have awful prenatal depression, combined with a toxic, violent family who I no longer speak to and am terrified of them being a part of my child’s life. I want to dope-slap the next colleague who literally cooes over my stomach, tells me to “enjoy every second!!”, and asks if my family is coming to be with me when I deliver. There’s multiple levels of shutting down that I really need to do and rehearse beforehand.)

      1. How about “unfortunately I’ve had some complications that have made it difficult to enjoy this time. My family is a whole other story. Insert eye roll – that I’d rather not talk about. Then redirect. How’s your grandma doing? (or other similar question). Or end with a “but thanks though, I appreciate that you care.” and walk away.

    5. I hate being asked are you okay, also, although I understand it comes from a place of love. As a result, I approach it by sending someone a note saying I am thinking of them and to let me know if they need anything. This doesn’t require (nor do I expect) a response and (I hope) it lets them know that I care about them without being annoying by asking them all the time if they are okay.

      1. Oh derp, I completely read to fast and didn’t at all address the question. Ignore my response!!

  6. What’s the next (or current) big thing/trend that will last? I’m thinking skinny jeans from the mid-00s that are a staple in many wardrobes, ankle pants for suits, athleisure wear that turned into leggings and tunics for a decade… I’m trying to buy some “now” pieces that I’ll be able to wear for a few years and look current. There aren’t many women in my office but I feel stale in my skinnies and simple tops, or gray dress/black tights. Open to any predictions, casual all the way to business dress.

    1. If I had to guess, office dress will go one of two ways – either more casual (I am stunned to see the difference when I really think about it between how I dress for work now – in the same office – as I did when I started 15 years ago), or it may start getting more buttoned up again just as a reaction to the casual. But I’m not fashion predictor, this is just my observation.

    2. Overalls.

      Just kidding. I am not into trends at all so I don’t have any suggestions. But some of the Outfit Formula posts on You Look Fab might give you some ideas.

    3. I don’t have an answer per se, but as someone who was in my early 20s before skinny jeans I would say what strikes me as part of the reason the skinny jeans and work ankle pants have stuck around for so long – in my opinion – is the versatility they have with so many different kinds of footwear, in particular even flat/comfortable footwear that looks fashionable (i.e. tall boots/booties that can be harder to style with other types of pants). Boot cuts – for example – even though they were obviously very popular for a long time, were always difficult with shoes, b/c either they are cut long enough to wear with your heels, or cut short enough to wear with flats, but it was hard to have a pair that looked right with both, among other issues (you could have your “heel pair” and your “flats pair”, but, ugh). So when looking for something that will last I would keep in mind… how easy are these to style with lots of cute but comfortable footwear? & if they are difficult in that regard, I would wonder how long they will stay popular with the general population, now that we all know how easy it can be.

      I could totally be wrong though and the next “in” pants maybe require all of us to wear like 4 inch heels to look good or something, b/c fashion doesn’t always make sense, ha.

      1. Good point about boot cut jeans! I had pairs for various heel heights and flats and sometimes got them hemmed to work with a certain pair of shoes. I rarely wear heels any more and find skinny jeans much more versatile with regard to shoes.

        I feel like more people these days are working from home so I think the more casual, athleisure will continue.

    4. I wish I knew! I never would’ve predicted that skinnies would’ve stuck around, based on people’s reactions when they first came out.

  7. I’d like to take back some personal time to invest in a hobby and have decided that cross stitching may be a good fit. Seeking recommendations for fun/modern patterns for projects large or small. Even better if they’re free. TIA!

    2. Martha Stewart has a cute cross stitch family portrait pattern…if you use your favorite search engine you can find it easily. Don’t want to link to avoid mod.

    3. Subversive Cross Stitch! Also, I’ve found many interesting (snarky) patterns on Etsy. Neither are free, but most are under $5.

    4. I just discovered Stitch People. There are some free ones online if you sign-up. I used to cross-stitch when I was young and had lots of free time. I’m going to get back into it this year because it’s so relaxing!

    5. Check out the Stranded Stitch. They sell whole kits, so it’s easy to get started without having to make a trip to the craft store or plan out how much of things you need. And they have a lot of fun patterns.

  8. I am not a big royal watcher, but OMG this situation with Meghan and Harry is getting messy. Usually, my theory is that every bad story in the Daily Mail is planted by Fergie/Andrew to divert attention away from them. But this seems to be a major unforced error (maybe they get good advice and don’t follow it? maybe they have bad advisors? surely they are not just winging it?).

    1. Yeah agreed! I’m totally supportive if they want to become truly private citizens. But YIKES (1) basically wanting all the perks of royalty with minimal obligations, (2) publicly announcing their detailed plans as if it was all agreed with the family — when it totally wasn’t and they knew it — completely disrespectful, and (3) leaving Archie in Canada while they went back to London – why would they do that unless it was part of the planned “shock and awe” strategy?!?

      1. Right? It’s becoming standard for royal non-heirs to opt out now. One of the Swedes even moved to Florida I think. But this whole thing seems to badly planned and strange timing for an announcement of something that wasn’t finished.

      2. Re #3, have you done transatlantic travel with an infant? I can’t fault them for that one. I know they have nannies and it’s not like they’d be up all night with a jet lagged baby themselves, but they knew they were only going to the UK for a couple days so why not leave Archie with loved ones in Canada? I’m sure it was easier on him and them. Most moms don’t take their kids on every business trip.

        1. But – why would they have known, in advance, that they would go back to Canada so quickly? Unless they planned in advance that they’d drop this bomb and need to get out of town?

          1. I think Meghan viewed it as just flying over to the UK for a few days for whatever work thing at Canada House they did the other day. You can argue about the merits of them apparently basing themselves in Canada now, but given that they’re based in Canada, it seems like they just left Archie home (with nannies and Meghan’s sister-like BFF) during a brief, planned business trip to the UK and that seems pretty reasonable to me. My understanding is that Harry is still in the UK and only Meghan went back to take care of Archie.

          2. They didn’t need to get out of town and Harry hasn’t left. They planned to return briefly now because they weren’t planning to make this announcement now.

          3. I think this is right — they didn’t bring the baby back b/c they were planning to return quickly (or at least she was).

          4. Their appearance at Canada House was super unusual. They just went there to ‘thank Canadians for their hospitality’ which is odd to do a public engagement about a private visit. Usually you’d keep the public and private separate.

          5. Didn’t they get in some hot water re carbon footprint very recently? I guess this is the least of their concerns at the moment . . .

          6. @Anon — yeah, I understand leaving your kid at home for a business trip, I just think Meghan’s actions (planning in advance to only be in the UK for a few days) are inconsistent with the couple’s words (blaming the threatened leak as the reason they had to scramble and announce early).

        2. But why are they staying in Canada? Go back for couple months, sort out the details then buy the house in LA.

          Like are we stuck with their security bullls now? Usually Canada pays when royals are in Canada but who pays if they are not working?

      3. #3 is just not how I roll — cannot imagine leaving a 8 mo child with a nanny on another continent (esp. when one grandparent is on that continent). Can they not fly back with you? Unless you were planning to come back quickly, in which case avoiding the jet lag on the kiddo makes sense (but why not stay yourself?).

        And I love when a couple in their 30s is talking about “becoming” financially independent. Is that not Adulting 101 (and something Meghan at least should get)? Becoming financially independent is something that most people do by the time they are 22. Reminds me of the opening episode of Girls when Lena Dunham’s character wants her parents to support her as she writes her memoir or some other nonsense.

        1. With a nanny and Meghan’s best friend. But congrats on judging all of us on here who are single moms and have left our babies overnight for work travel.

          1. They live in the UK and don’t have authority to move to Canada as they aren’t citizens. They were on vacation, pretended like they were back from vacation with the Canada House visit dropped huge news story and left. I don’t get why they didn’t just stay on vacation?

          3. It seems like she wasn’t planning on being gone long though (so much for the “this was rushed” theory then). And did I miss her becoming a single mom?

        2. It’s great that that’s not “how you roll” but plenty of working moms regularly leave their 8 month olds overnight for business travel. I even (gasp!) once left my baby with a close friend so I could go away with my husband and have adult fun. They were in Toronto, Doria is 2,500 miles away in LA, but, sure, since they’re “on the same continent” they’re obviously terrible people for leaving the baby with his honorary aunt and cousins instead of his grandmother.

          I can understand criticizing the timing of the announcement and stuff like that, but I’m really surprised by the pearl clutching on this s1te about leaving an 8 month old with trusted caregivers for a few days.

          1. it’s not the fact an 8mo would be left at all, it’s that leaving him is inconsistent with the picture the Sussexes are trying to paint (planned to come home and figure out their new role, but were forced to announce early due to threatened leak).

          2. I was responding to the poster at 10:33, not you, and specifically to the statement that she “cannot imagine leaving a 8 mo child with a nanny on another continent (esp. when one grandparent is on that continent).”

          3. I guess their travel isn’t like my work travel: they don’t miss connections or get rerouted or get bumped from their planes. Their nanny doesn’t have to go home to her kids or walk her dog. My work travel is so, so different.

            Looks like they left the nanny and kid on extended vacay and took a side trip to quit their jobs, planning to return promptly.

      4. Yea, I think the Atlantic article summarizes it nicely – they’re both ‘pro-cake’ and ‘pro-eating it’. I would applaud them heartily for stepping back and wanting to be private citizens and asking for royal support in fighting invasions into their privacy….that is um, not what they’re proposing. The thing that struck me as particularly tone deaf was stating that they won’t take the royal grant money…but they are still largely funded by the Duchy money AND the UK taxpayers support their massive security outlay. How is that going to work if they’re only ‘part time royals’ going forward. Are THEY going to subsidize half of the tax payer costs of their security? of their travel? It doesn’t seem so.

        1. Super worried if they move to Canada that we get stuck with security bills. If they were fully private then they would be responsible but the part-time thing strikes me as a way to keep getting the security costs paid.

        2. My understanding is that they basically want to be “minor” royals (a la Harry and William’s first cousins like Zara, Beatrice, Eugenie, etc.). They would do the same kind of work these cousins do and have the same kind of benefits. All of those other royals I listed live on royal land and had taxpayer-funded weddings and security, but aren’t in the main part of the royal family that does all the overseas travel and I think at least some of them actually have separate jobs that pay them income. I don’t really understand what’s problematic about Harry & Meghan wanting to do the same.

          1. They are not paid working royals. They have way smaller roles, do not have royal patronages in the same way and don’t have second residences that increase security costs. Residence costs are paid by their parents privately.

            the Queen awarded patronages to the Sussexes last year, the others don’t have anything like that. Unclear how that will work going forward as they can’t do any charitable political advocacy with those in place. Zara’s wedding was not televised or near the spectacle that theirs was. There’s no direct comparison so that’s why the palace as calling it complicated. It seems like they are asking for something that doesn’t currently exist and has to be developed.

          2. Harry and Meghan have made their intentions pretty clear though — they want to use their “Sussex Royal” titles to support their own independent work, rather than the causes and charities that the MONARCHY has decided to support. The other “minor” royals aren’t essentially trying to set up a huge, rival project.

          3. Zara, Beatrice and Eugenie do not receive royal allowances, do not have patronages, and only receive taxpayer-funded security while attending royal events.

          4. How can they use the ‘Royal’ branding if it’s not approved by the Queen? There’s a specific application process for organizations. Wonder if that’s why it says Sussex Royal instead of ‘Royal Sussex’? Or maybe they can do that in the US and will use other branding in the UK?

          5. And while I get that they want to do their own thing, the money chatter is a bit of a head scratcher. If you want to make $ and reduce your burden on the taxpayer, I don’t see a big plan here. Doing charity work is not (generally) you getting paid for appearances. If you want to get paid for appearances and speeches, pls don’t call it charity work. Just call it work. But other than trading on their titles, I don’t see how work is viable for him and can’t see her doing back to acting. Or things will get shady fast. It’s not like either was in private equity or legit banking or some other quiet-in-the-background-like-they-profess-to-want profession (accounting? dentistry?) prior. Are they going to be instagram influences? And what when they are 50 or 60 or older?

          6. Same. From the financial side, they have been getting the royal grant money and daddy’s money, plus all that tax-payer funded security. It’s unlikely that Harry will ever not be a tabloid target, so whatever he does doesn’t really change that cost for the taxpayer. I find it a little hard to blame him for being born third in line to the throne.
            From their public engagements it’s clear that they care a lot about certain causes, so it’s understandable that they were chafing under the restrictions for political advocacy that comes with their position. If they thought they can give back that one (apparently minor) funding source in exchange for basically more freedom of speech while leveraging their titles+influence for their advocacy, then that is pretty naive of them. I don’t think that’s going to be possible, but it’s understandable to me that they’d like that. I can’t really judge them for that.

        3. I think you can just dial it back without making any sort of announcement that you are in fact dialing it back. If they are not of the amount of importance where you can speak if and when YOU choose, what hope do the rest of us have. How hard it is also to just say “no comment.”

          I feel like they would be far better off with not making public pronouncements (or websites) for a while and let themselves fade a bit.

        4. I thought the whole deal with the money is that if they take certain money, the British press feels like they OWN them and are entitled to say whatever racist crap they want about Meghan. If they don’t take that money then the press can’t complain. My sense is that they’re privately wealthy and are saying they will continue to do some of the travel/tours/etc to help HRM/Wills/Charles out but that they are done with the racist, invasive press situation. (I haven’t seen anything written but, to the extent that The Firm felt bamboozled by the announcement, my guess is it grew out of frustration out of years of nonaction/no consequences for the racist press, probably with a good deal of pleading for some action/consequences from the Firm.)

          I thought this summed it up well:
          https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/01/prince-harry-meghan-markle-sussex/604657/

          1. But you are setting out exactly why their half way proposal is problematic. They can’t do travel and tours to support the family if they are politically active via their charities as the royals are required to be politically neutral. What they are considering ‘private money’ that they say they will continue to take it also sort of public money in that it comes from estates owned by Charles as a result of his position and his position comes from the work he does on behalf of the RF which works on behalf of the country/Commonwealth. Basically they are asking for a set up that doesn’t currently exist and seem annoyed that it cannot be figured out quickly. If they want to leave, leave and if they wanted to stay involved they needed to figure out a clearer plan for the governments to approve.

          2. Prince Harry is wealthy in the sense that he has access to Prince Charle’s money, which is taxpayer money adjacent at the very least. Meghan Markle’s net worth from her acting and endorsements is about about $7 million, so I don’t think they can live on that for long.

          3. @lawsuited, he has an inheritance worth over $20 million in US dollars. I don’t know if they WANT to live on that, but a family of four could certainly live exceedingly comfortably on that, even without any additional funds coming in. The interest on $20M alone should be close to a million a year in income, and that’s without touching the principal.

          4. $1 million doesn’t go very far with their kind of lifestyle. Especially if they have to buy a house and cover some of the security costs. I thought their security was $1 million plus a year alone? No precedent for who covers that when they are not working royals I don’t think.

      5. Great points, especially #1. I really think they are not being realistic and imagining a middle ground that isn’t really there, and I don’t see this working out for them the way they have outlined it.

      6. They left Archie because flying an infant all the way around the world for what was always planned as a short visit is silly. Meghan has returned to him in Canada and Harry is staying to work out the details. They only announced when they did because the press had the story and was going to publish.

        Today and the other day you’ve sounded completely unhinged about this.

        1. How is it a short visit to the UK? They live there. She can move to the US but neither of them can move to Canada.

          1. They can easily move to Canada if they want. I am absolutely in favour of ditching the monarchy altogether and Canada becoming a republic but until that happens, they are Canada’s royal family too so I am pretty sure they are entitled to reside here should they so desire.

          2. They can’t. Royal family members don’t have any status in respect of Canada. Only the Queen has the authority to reside here because one of her titles is ‘Queen of Canada’.

            They would have to apply for permanent resident status or work visas or something. They can stay 6 months a year like other UK tourists so I’m assuming that’s their plan if they are going to reside in the UK as well.

          3. Just because it requires some paperwork, doesn’t mean they can’t establish residency in Canada easily. The Commonwealth countries are pretty generous with each other’s citizens. Not every immigration system is as much of a sh1t show as the US one.

          4. @ anon – there are no special immigration benefits for commonwealth countries. It’s easier for young people under 30 to get a working holiday visa for a year or two but that’s it. My husband immigrated to Canada and I’m a lawyer. It’s not easy. And the wait times are long. If they do it, they are either staying on tourist visas or they got special treatment and were allowed to jump the line which is exactly the kind of thing they said they were against re her British citizenship.

          5. So M previously lived in Canada for 7 years while filming Suits, correct? I used to do some US immigration law (I don’t know anything about Canada), so I wonder if it possible that she still holds a visa that would allow her to live permanently in Canada, or previously held a type of visa that could be more easily renewed or reinstated. In the alternative, if Canada has an investor visa program, that could be an option for them.

            Also, haven’t they just said “North America,” not specifically Canada?

          6. @ Anon 2:08pm – I’m assuming she was here on an entertainment industry work visa. A ton of filming happens in Vancouver and Toronto and the actors get work permits for that. Not sure if she would have additionally applied for permanent residency status. Even if she was a citizen, that doesn’t give him a right to reside here because unlike in the US, marrying someone doesn’t get them residency status. You have to join the long wait to get your residency approved. My DH actually moved back to his home country for 6 months because the processing times at the embassy in his home country (not a country that usually generates immigrants) where shorter than the ones for in-Canada application and he didn’t have a work permit to use in the meantime.

    2. It seems like a weird series of unforced errors. And a lack of understanding of how complicated the funding for the Royal Family is in terms of the line between private/public monies. And now she’s back in Canada which is confusing because they are not citizens and would have no right to reside there long term. Not sure if that means she is ditching British citizenship process.

      1. Funny — I think of Commonwealth countries as what the Queen controls and would think that a prince could just go there b/c that’s how princes roll. Maybe before the Magna Carta, had there been a New World then?

        1. No. The ‘resident’ head of state in Commonwealth countries (Governor General) is traditionally a prestigious citizen of that country appointed by the Queen on the recommendation of the country’s Prime Minister.

          The idea of dumping minor royals off in ‘the colonies’ to act as Governor General ended like 70-100 years ago and trying to revive that is just going to lead to countries opting out of the Commonwealth.

        2. She can reside in Canada because she is considered Queen of Canada as one of her titles but the other royals are just nice visitors.

          1. Or not-so-nice visitors depending on what bills they’re asking you to cover…

    3. They made their statement so abruptly because it was leaked to the press and was going to appear in the paper the next day. I think it’s clear the Queen didn’t consider the matter settled and didn’t ok the release of their statement, but I don’t think she was blindsided by the news or they issued the statement before even attempting to discuss it with her. Harry and Meghan probably told her and she gave them a polite brush off thinking they would drop it and they didn’t.
      To be honest, I’ve always loved the royals and all things British (my mom’s father was born in the UK and moved to the US as an adult) but I have to say I’m thoroughly disgusted with the Queen for treating this as a much bigger scandal than Prince Andrew. You have a rapist in your immediate family. Stop worrying about whether Meghan and Harry are perfectly obeying all the protocols.

      1. IDK — I wouldn’t have worded their statement that way (and don’t see why they’d even need to make one). It’s like they can’t read a room at all.

      2. +1 especially on the Prince Andrew front. It is honestly appalling and I’m shocked anyone cares about Meghan and Harry when they have a pedophile being protected by the Queen. But that’s what you get with a bored population that cares more about being xenophobic (and hiding it as “concern for the royalty”) and borderline racist while feigning “tolerance for all”. Hypocrites.

        2. He’s garbage but it’s not like he’s been charged and they are refusing to extradite him. Not sure how Andrew being horrible doesn’t mean that people can’t have questions about how they expect to have their security and residences paid if they are not doing ‘head of state’ work assigned by the Queen.

          1. This stuff about Prince Andrew is not breaking news to anyone who was following the family in the slightest. The Queen could and should have had him step down as a working royal decades ago. Even now, he’s not a working royal but he has a title. She should strip him of his title.

        4. It is in fact possible to care about more than one thing at once. As a matter of fact one might argue that mature responsible adults do care about more than one thing at once.

      3. I don’t buy the leak thing forcing their hand because 1- they left Archie in Canada which seems more like drop a bomb and get out of town again, 2 – it’s super common for non-heirs to take a step back so until the details are worked out, leaking the fact that they might take a step back is a non-story/minor story. It’s only as big a story as it is now because no one seems to know WTF is going on and what their new roles will be.

        Andrew is clearly super problematic but he’s out and will stay out because Charles has always hated him. She’s not the first parent who didn’t want to believe the worst about their kid even when the facts were staring them straight in the face. Harry was the favourite grandson of the Queen so I buy that she was hurt on a personal level by how he handled this.

        2. I’ve probably watched The Crown too much, but I have trouble believing that the queen gets actually hurt by stuff other than her husband’s shenanigans. Come to think of it, this move surely will provide a good 1-2 episodes for the Crown season 10!

      4. I agree that Andrew was long overdue in his public disgrace! But that doesn’t mean other family members can do whatever they want… this is more than “perfectly obeying protocol” like OMG can you believe she wore dark nail polish.

        The two of them are being pretty blatantly disrespectful. If the “threatened leak” story is true, (1) they could have still gotten in front of the leak and explained the direction they were SEEKING to go rather than presenting the plan as final, and (2) it still doesn’t explain why they left Archie in Canada when they came back last weekend. That would have to have been arranged well in advance of any last-minute “leak” scrambling…

        1. The fact that you and others are even discussing them in the same breath is part of the problem though. It’s not just, oh yes, Prince Andrew is terrible but this is terrible too. The situations are SO FAR APART in terms of awfulness. I’m not sure I agree that H&M were disrespectful, because I think sometimes when you have a toxic family situation, the normal rules of politeness go out the window and you have to do what you need to do to protect yourself and your children. But even if they were disrespectful, it’s millions of orders of magnitude better than what Prince Andrew did. As far as I’m concerned they could have yelled “F&CK YOU, YOU OLD $ITCH” at Her Majesty and it would still not begin to approach child rape in terms of being a disappointment to the family. The fact that people are even comparing the two “scandals” is the perfect example of white male privilege.

          1. But why are you comparing the two scandals? Like he’s garbage but that doesn’t mean there can be no questions or interest about another unrelated issues.

      5. I would honestly be perfectly happy to never hear another peep from or about Andrew. His offenses are not debatable and realistically, he will never be suitably punished, so the next best thing in my mind is for him to never benefit from his birth/fame/privilege again. Let him rot in obscurity.

        I feel like the Harry and Meghan question holds much more implication for the modern role of a royal and so merits this kind of discussion.

      6. +10000000000000

        Yeah, my son’s a rapist but look over there, a black woman’s being uppity!!

        1. I think Harry comes off worse than Meghan in this situation. To my way of thinking, he has the larger obligation to the Queen and the Royal Family, seeing as they are his family so doing this without consulting them is much worse. He also has less of a leg to stand on re: being financially independent given that he has been living off public money his entire life and has no commodity to trade for cash beyond his royal title.

          1. Agree. I don’t get why they didn’t negotiate that she’d opt out and he’d so a certain number of events per year in exchange for xyz funding arrangment. Announcing before the details are worked out doesn’t seem beneficial to anyone.

    4. They aren’t winging it. They were going to wait to announce but someone leaked it to the press so they got out ahead of the news. Omid Scoobie is the best reporter covering it in terms of not being hysterical.

      1. Omid is pretty much Meghan’s mouthpiece right?
        Others have commented above that the “leak” justification has some holes it it, namely the fact that they left Archie in Canada (why would they do that unless they were planning to drop this bomb and flee) and also could have gotten out in front of the “leak” without presenting the plan as final.

        1. Nope. And you’re really weirdly hateful about her here and elsewhere. They left Archie in Canada because this announcement wasn’t going to be made now. They planned a quick trip to visit Canada house and continue family discussions before returning to Canada to continue planning there, before announcing at a later date. Now obviously meghan has returned to Archie but Harry has stayed to continue talks.

          1. Continuing planning from a place that’s a nine hour time change away where neither of them has ever lived? Such an odd choice. And seems super impractical for conference calls etc.

          3. Anon at 11:34, Toronto is five hours behind London, not nine, and Meghan lived there while filming Suits and has a lot of close friends there. And only Meghan went back to Canada, Harry is still in the UK.

          4. @ anon 12:10

            They were on Vancouver Island and reportedly she just flew back to Vancouver which is three time zones west of Ontario.

          5. Canada House was not a planned trip. The Canadians did not know about it until the afternoon before. (See Vanity Fair reporting the day of the visit.) This makes sense as at the time, the visit was a little odd anyway — a public thank you for a private vacation. For a purportedly rushed announcement, too, the webs!te was very much ready to go. I just think the spin/defense is not beneficial to them and this was bungled at every step. It would have been totally different if this was presented all together by the whole family, taking time to think of what is best for the Suss3x fam as well as what’s fair to the public, who foots the bill for a monarchy in exchange for them being ceremonial public servants.

            Not the OP you are responding to and very much for them becoming private citizens as it seems that would do a world of good for Harry. That’s not what they are asking for, unfortunately, and I don’t think it’s fair to have all of the perks and none of the responsibilities for role as a public servant/soft diplomat. It’s either private citizen like Peter or working royal with various levels of responsibility like the York girls all the way to the Cambridges. The difference is that you cannot be trading on your title for money. The half-way proved a terrible mix for Prince Edward and Sophie. I’m honestly surprised Harry didn’t do more deep thinking about this in his 30-some years. And as a former journalist, I’m a bit troubled at the request to receive public monies and perform public duties but to not be subject to a free press but rather *only* ones at their choosing (instead of “in addition to”). Perfectly fine for private celebrities but not ok for people who are acting on behalf of the government and benefiting from it as well. Reeks of cries of fake news and creating your own reality and could be especially troubling for the monarchy the moment there is anything political spoken. (And I align with Meghan and Harry on their political beliefs! – from what we know of them – but again do not think it is fair to ask citizens to pay for those beliefs for non-elected officials.)

        2. This! They could have addressed the leak just by announcing that they are going to begin discussions about taking a step back and having more private life and they will provide more details when the specifics are worked out . The website launching and negotiating in public is not a great way to make a clean break.

    5. It seems a little flouncy to me, TBH. Like if they wanted to “step back” and do less, why couldn’t they have just done that and then when someone noticed, issued a statement about it? I also think the “let’s leave the baby in Canada, parachute in for the announcement and then bounce” was interesting. I have no judgement about leaving the baby behind – people leave infants at home when they travel internationally all the time – but that made this seem like this was either an impulsive move, or not impulsive but not well-thought-out either. I agree with the spirit of what they’ve done but feel like the execution was lacking. The announcement seemed poorly timed and planned and that makes it look like an immature, knee-jerk decision even if it wasn’t one.

      I am not sure why H&M are so up-in-arms about the British press and the horrible things being said; that’s how the press over there has operated for years. I can understand not liking it but it seems like they expected the snarkiness and mudslinging to stop because they asked nicely, and I feel like that’s naive. I understand why Harry has raw feelings about the press – he has every right to those feelings – but regardless of who he married, there was going to be a lot of scrutiny and bad behavior. It wasn’t going to go away because they wanted it to go away.

      I dunno. Ultimately I don’t think Harry wanted to be a royal forever, and now he’s married to a person who has experienced her own success, and has her own ideas, and so now he can forge his own path and get away from his crazy, dysfunctional family. What I really don’t understand is how any of them live their lives under the thumb of the Queen, who could not be less empathetic or more out-of-touch with the real world. Frankly, if I was Meghan I wouldn’t want that old bat telling me what to do or how to do it either. F that. Meghan had a life before she met Harry and in her place, I would want to try to continue having my own life and not have to ask some 95-year-old snob if my skirts were too short every freakin’ time I turned around. Meghan isn’t Kate Middleton, who never had a real career and spent most of her time after she got out of school hanging around to see if William would propose. I think Kate is very pretty but I also see her as pretty calculating, and she’s definitely getting what she bargained for.

      2. I always think the comparison with Kate is offbase, and that no one should expect Meghan to be another Kate. They signed up for every different things. Kate married William knowing that, absent a horrible accident, she would become Queen some day when he becomes King and that her child would become King or Queen at some point. That is very different from marrying someone who is sixth in line and knows that he will never be King.

        And I completely agree with your point that Kate doesn’t know anything else – this has been her whole adult life.

    6. Bad advice? But why doesn’t Harry understand this stuff even if Meghan doesn’t? It looks like they don’t really understand how much governmental approval is required for a new type of role that doesn’t currently exist. In a constitutional monarchy, the Queen can’t just approve it all on her own. Apparently Patel is involved now too.

    8. I feel so terrible for them that people feel this entitled to be all up in their business

      1. They signed up for this just like DJT or any American president does. The state paid for their travel, clothes, wedding, security and house renos. They could have had opted out and had a quiet wedding and private life like Zara Tindall or Peter Philips. If they want to opt out, totally understandable but it’s not necessary to make a huge spectacle of it, just stop doing events and live privately.

        1. Well, Meghan signed up for it. Harry was born into it and not fair to compare him to an elected official who made a choice as an adult to run for office.

          1. He’s mid thirties. He could have chosen to leave at any time prior to now. When he was a child he didn’t have a choice but he’s had a choice for a long time. His refusal to opt out is reportedly what ended his relationship with chelsy Davy because she didn’t want a royal life.

          2. I don’t believe he could really opt out, short of giving up his title and estranging himself completely from his family, which is a lot to ask of a person. I know minor royals of other countries have done it but the UK is a little different and until five or so years ago when William’s oldest child was born he was third in line for the throne so not exactly some distant cousin.

            I also believe that regardless of what he does with his title/funding/family, he can never fully remove himself from paparazzi attention, which I think is the part of it he hates most of all. He was born a celebrity and will always be a celebrity and for that reason I feel like it’s fundamentally unfair to compare him to a movie star or elected official who chose a life that involves media attention completely voluntarily as an adult.

          3. I mean they’re not going to leave him completely alone. But if he had opted into a private life after the heir and spare were born (George and Charlotte), he’d probably be more like Peter Philips or Zara Tindall or Viscount Linley who are occasionally in the papers but largely left alone. But even now, they are not choosing a private life. They are lauching major new initatives, so they can’t be surprised that it generates press attention.

        2. I highly doubt that they could have opted out and had a quiet wedding. I really, really doubt it.

          1. Why? There has been no one objecting to them leaving now. The push back has been about how they announced it when the details weren’t worked out. Non-heir royals opting out it practically standard for European royals nowadays.

    9. I saw something funny on Facebook yesterday, presumably from a Canadian source: “Local woman rescues husband from hereditary cult!”

      1. I liked the Chicago Trib’s headline: Northwestern Grad Returns Home After Time Spent Abroad (except it doesn’t sound like they’re really returning to the US).

      2. That was in the Beaverton, I think. They have some fairly hilarious satirical headlines.

      3. Reminds me of a photo caption that went something like “Angela Merkel meeting with human rights lawyer Amal Clooney and her husband, an actor”

      4. “Local actor returns to LA to look for new work. Brings immigrant husband with her.”

    10. I always enjoy this type of royal scandal (the low-stakes kind, unlike the Prince Andrew thing which really matters and and is awful), bc my mother views the Windors in general as classless arrivistes (her ancestors are all from old English noble families, mostly Howards and other related recusant Catholics) and so her commentary on all of this is scathing and hilarious.

      I remember when Kate was the target of a lot of awful media coverage (Waity Katie, the Wisteria Sisters, etc.) and my mom was just MYSTIFIED as to why anyone would consider it to be social climbing to marry a Windsor because if you were really going to climb socially, wouldn’t you want to marry “someone who had some history” like a Lennox or a Seymour? It’s the most bizarre and yet entertaining form of snobbery.

        1. Lol

          I’m patiently waiting to hear from my British mother’s take on this weeks event. She is in Mexico so a day or two behind on news.

          If anyone is working class British, they’ll know what I mean when I say I think my mum’s first statement will be ‘that silly cow’, about Megan.

  9. What do you do when you simply don’t respect the lawyering skills or work quality of your colleagues? I was very lucky to have received really good legal training and the opportunity to work with truly excellent lawyers in the first several years of my practice. I left that situation about 2.5 years ago and moved to different location and different firm for lifestyle reasons. While everyone I work with is very nice and I generally like my more relaxed lifestyle at my new firm, I have been increasingly alarmed by the work product of some of the attorneys there. Nothing malpractice level, but just not good work or management. The firm has an ok reputation in the city but not great. While I like the people and my flexibility there, I’m beginning to wonder if I should leave. I have thought that it will be okay as long as I do my best but I’m not sure if that’s the case anymore. I am not at all trying to be snobby about it but am simply asking for advice out of concern for my own development and reputation in the field. I’m almost 10 years out and a junior partner with no book.

    1. How does the work product of your colleagues affect you? Seriously – do you guys work in teams? Do you have to go back and correct their work? If so, and you feel you can only develop your skills by being challenged by your coworkers and learning from them, then yes move.

      But if the work of your coworkers doesn’t really affect your work, then yes you’re being snobby. I know those of us trained in big law are trained for perfection and doing the absolute most but just like in other fields, perfection is not always necessary, especially at the reputation and I’m assuming reduced rates your firm is charging. Clients don’t want to be billed 20% more hours to get a slightly better work product – if it gets the job done and the results the client wants, what’s it to you? And honestly, not every attorney can or will be the best, it’s just not statistically possible.

      All this to say, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Why would you lose all the benefits of our job because your coworkers aren’t perfect?

      1. This. I am in accounting but went from a really perfectionist/high pressure large firm environment to a much lower pressure smaller firm environment where I have a lot more responsibility. At my former job, only managers and above spoke to clients and reviewed tax returns, and only senior managers and partners signed tax returns.

        And I came to my job with three years of experience and began speaking to clients right away and managing the entire information gathering process for all of “my” clients. And a couple years later started reviewing and signing tax returns. It still shocks me. I know I don’t have the skills and experience of the people from my last job who were complete geniuses with 20+ years of tax experience, who did double review and never sent out a tax return without it being COMPLETELY PERFECT. I’m sure the tax returns I review have some mistakes on them and aren’t completely perfect. But they have, so far (knock on wood), been good enough for the IRS.

        It’s been a really big mental transition to make, from thinking that everything had to be perfect or the world would collapse, to realizing that doing a good job is enough in most places.

      2. I’m hearing the OP as saying “I’m worried that my colleagues’ work product will reflect on me, due to its collective impact on my firm’s reputation.” Valid concern as if someone is looking for expert advice and wasn’t thrilled with the firm’s previous performance, they might not turn to her.

    2. You’re a partner with no book so you should be focused on developing that not judging your colleagues. You do sound snobby and out of touch. Big law perfection is great. I too learned it and then moved to a small regional firm. We don’t provide big law perfection because our clients could never afford to pay for it.

    3. For equity partners or relationship partners – look at this as an opportunity to shine. If you don’t have a book then you need to bring something else really important to the table. That’s exactly what you’re doing – you’re bringing to the team your skills and high quality work. Seek out relationships with partners who can develop the kind of business you want and who will trust you to run the matter with little oversight or input. At the 2.5 year mark, you should have at least some people who trust you; build on that and get them to advocate for you.

      For associates – It’s never the associate’s fault. If no one else is training these folks then guess what your job is now. Pick a few juniors or midlevels who you like and mentor the living daylights out of them. You have to work with the resources that the firm has, so invest some time into making those resources the best they can be. Same goes with paralegals and secretaries.

      Peers are the hardest and I don’t have a lot of advice there. I would continue to build your reputation as the go-to person to run whatever type of matters you handle. Sometimes your peer will be the relationship partner, sometimes they’ll be other hands on deck, manage those relationships accordingly.

    4. What do you mean exactly by “quality”? Is it about strict adherence to bluebook citations/eloquent language in briefing *OR* is it about about missing/nearly missing deadlines/leaving out potentially meritorious arguments/failing to work aggressively to gather evidence? Because as a practicing attorney for nearly 10 years now I have learned, E.G., that the substantive impact of an occasional missed comma or what have you is literally nil, whereas deadlines mean the world. In other words, are the clients being appropriately served in that they get their issues fully heard and addressed on the merits? That said, if you feel the place isn’t right for you, move on.

    5. I hear you. I’m in a similar position, but I’m in Medicine.

      Can you imagine what it is like to work with colleagues that you have seen do sloppy/careless/selfish things that can hurt patient care? At my prior hospitals I honestly did not see this. Maybe I was too naive or too inexperienced at that time, but I think the work ethic and culture were just different where I trained.

      I honestly think I will have to leave for my sanity.

    6. I think it is an established fact that not all lawyers can be as sharp as the lawyers like us, who work in the legal capitol of the world. Dad told me that if I could make it in NYC, I could make it any where, and so far, his prediction has become true. I started slow, but have progresed to become a partner in a boutique firm on a subject that I did not even know existed when I was in law school. I knew about negligence, but NOT WC; but now WC has become my bread and butter. Once you get outside NYC, peeople do a more general practice, and necessarily they can’t be as expert as I am b/c I ONLEY do WC law. So that is the story, and I am goeing to stick to it! YAY!!!

  10. I want to thank this community for tuning me into Poshmark. I work from home and really don’t need many clothes nowadays, except jeans and casual tops. Ended up finding my go to jeans (J Brand Maria) in my size for $30 through Poshmark! Also bought another Anthro sweater to replace the exact one that my mom shrunk in the dryer. :) It feels good to reuse and not spend a fortune.

    1. I’ve also had great luck on Poshmark! I’ve used it to find additional colors/sizes of the discontinued pants that I love.

    2. I also love Poshmark. I buy a lot of my clothes from there (tried and true brands in my sizes) and I also buy my kids clothes and some shoes there as well. I have sold a few items that no longer work for me. It makes me feel good that I’m not buying brand new clothes in terms of both price and slight environmental impact.

      1. Agree! There is so much listed on poshmark that I can just type in my preferred brand and size and get multiple options. And new clothes don’t just have a slight environmental impact, they actually have quite a large one!

  11. I’m going to the eye doctor this weekend and would like to upgrade my glasses after 7 years. I am currently wearing a tortoiseshell plastic Ralph Lauren style and am naturally drawn to the big hipster Warby style glasses of the late aughts but would love something that looks a bit more current. Appreciate that face shape will inform this decision but any thoughts on what is ‘in’ now?

    1. I tend to like whatever is in the Kate Spade offerings, which I hope to find knocked off at the drugstore (I am just in reading glasses, no Rx, but I go to the doctor to confirm that now that I’m up to a +2).

    2. I’m not the best on trends, but just want to throw a plug out for Zenni. Their try-on feature works really well and I’ve wound up with several pairs I like and can rotate through for less than the cost of one pair from my doctor’s office. (I swear this isn’t an ad, I just really like Zenni and wish I had started shopping there earlier.)

    4. Spendier but I always find Chanel to have the most recent styles that are current but not costumey.

      I also like Face a Face (a French brand) and a couple of other European brands that I can’t come up with names for right now. I visit higher end optical boutiques to find them.

      That all said, I see the “kids” (young adults) are wearing a lot of wire rimmed round glasses now. Not tiny Benjamin Franklin type frames, but somewhat larger rounds. They’ve also been gravitating toward clear or translucent pink plastic frames rather than the heavy black frames we think of as hipster glasses.

    6. It’s my first day wearing new frames today, and they’re Versace; so were my last pair. They aren’t cheap, but they aren’t exorbitant, either. I think they have classic frames that aren’t super trendy but also don’t look like something my great grandmother would wear. I don’t know what’s “in” for glasses, because I go with what I like and what works on my face more than anything. I find the most luck just going to LensCrafters and trying on as many pairs as I think might work. I prioritize light, with frames that can be adjusted (so no thick plastic earpieces), and something with just a bit of personality because I wear them every single day, from the time I wake up until I go to bed.

      My model is VE1251 in pink. My last ones were VE1247.

      I also got great Burberry frames for my sunglasses. BE1337 is the model number. Last time I got RayBans and liked them, but didn’t love them.

    7. I recently got some from a brand called SALT, that I had never seen before. I get so many compliments on them!

  12. I just got an urgent project and will need to work about 30 hours from now through Sunday. I’d like to structure at least a couple fun breaks so I have something to look forward to every 3-6 hours. I’ll probably eat most meals in the office. Any ideas? I live in a city of about 500,000 so have amenities, but it’s too cold here to do much outside.

    1. On ten hour days, you know you’ll be exhausted so try to build in rest, not fun. On long days I always like to split into morning and afternoon shifts. Today do a normal 8 hr day + 2 after normal quitting time and have a normal Friday night (grab a glass of wine, curl up at home to read with tea, etc.). Tomorrow work 8 – 12, two hour break to go walk around, have a leisurely lunch, work out wtv, work 2 to 7, have your normal evening. Same on Sunday.

    3. Having just had one today, a lunch hour facial is extremely relaxing.

  13. Just jumping in to say I have such hair envy over this model (save the sadly heat damaged front pieces). My hair either flies up and out or stays flat (usually from too much product). To have hair that has volume and stays reasonably down is a fantasy for me.

  14. Poll: how much do you spend on lunch per day? Bring in, or eat out?

    I usually get food from my company cafeteria (and eat at my desk) – it’s subsidized, so it’s between $2 and $5.50 a day, depending on what I get. I was going through my 2019 on Mint this week, and of course, it’s a major line item for the year, because every day adds up. But I’m wondering if, realistically, I will actually save money if I try to bring lunch more often, and if the extra effort is worth what I’d save? Or should I just focus on not buying anything from Amazon (#1 for the year, I spent more on it than I did on clothes. HORRIFYING)…

    1. I tend to eat out, but I divide the cost of each meal by 2 since I usually don’t need to shop for or cook dinner, I can just eat the lunch leftovers. Like I will get a burrito and chips/salsa and then that is like a day’s worth of food for me. Bfast is 2 yogurts or oatmeal, so this is really simplifying things for me if I don’t eat a junked-out lunch every day.

    2. You won’t be saving much if you’re spending $2 on lunch. Unless you’re really hurting for money or want to focus on the health of your food, I’d just aim for the cheaper end of lunch and save yourself the time and mental energy to plan and make lunch. Just say no to Amazon – seriously unless you’re looking for something really really necessary that is very difficult to find locally, just don’t get it. I like to browse Amazon and have started filling up my cart, letting it sit there a few days, then all the unnecessary items I move down to the “save for later” category. Guess what – I never get those items because the novelty wears off by the time I think of them again.

    3. Oh wow. $2-5 a day is pretty low for a meal. You could theoretically spend less if you meal prepped and batch cooked, but for me, the time involved in that wouldn’t be worth the savings, assuming that money alone was the sole reason for the change.

    4. Wow, that is great. For that price, no way would I pack a lunch; I can’t imagine making a healthy, filling meal for that little.
      One of my goals for the year is to spend less on lunch while at work. I got into a bad $12/day, 3 day/week Sweetgreen habit that I need to cut. If I forget to pack a lunch, I’m now making myself eat a frozen meal (~$5) instead of takeout.

    5. I think that’s pretty reasonable for lunches – if you aren’t used to prepping your lunch, you might find it more challenging and expensive. I’d focus on Amazon. My goal is to limit myself to 6 Amazon orders (progress not perfection) this year, after a horrifying 1 a week last year. If I can’t find something in my major city, I probably don’t need it.

      1. +1 – I managed to generally wean myself off Amazon last year (10 orders, all things I couldn’t find in my local big box stores). I meal prep and I think my meals probably fall in that range, especially if you eat meat (my vegetarian lunches are much closer to the low end, anything with meat is probably at least around $4 per serving).

        1. Well done on the Amazon thing! I work in the city centre so I’m hoping this new policy will encourage me to get out of the office at lunchtime, if only to run errands.

      2. Oh, I wish I had managed once a week. The horrifying total was 163 orders (though maybe ten were bras that didn’t fit and went back). I was 100% depression shopping for the dopamine kick (it’s been a rough couple of years for me, in a lot of ways), so I’m trying to reframe because beyond that brief moment, very few of the purchases are particularly necessary bring me actual joy (the bidet excluded). I feel less bad about my clothing purchases, as I’ve pivoted to fewer but nicer things – and stuff from e.g. the Fold does make me happy when I wear it. I’m not trying for zero – yes, I could find most of it locally, but my life is so packed that anything beyond the grocery store is frequently a big ask – but I’m trying to cut it down to the necessities.

    6. It costs me at least $5 and a lot of time to make my own lunch every day. Groceries, especially healthy groceries, aren’t free.

    7. I work from home once a week (obviously eat at home) and bring in the rest of the time. Maybe twice a month I forget my lunch at home or the team decides to go out.
      It’s hard to estimate since I don’t track my food spending that closely, but my homemade lunch definitely costs less than $3 in a HCOL area, eating out would be $10 or more here. Although I appreciate that it fits my dietary preference and is portion controlled, I mostly do this to save money.

      1. It helps that everything except the overpriced, mediocre cafeteria food would require a drive here. Your situation sounds more reasonable.

    8. I usually spend $7-10/twice a week eating out, and then when I’m bringing my own lunch, I’ll often bring a $4 Amy’s frozen meal. I think it depends on the quality of the food you’re getting and if the convenience is worth it. My partner has a subsidized cafeteria and always uses it. I consider it a work perk for him and don’t worry about it.

    9. Typically $5 (sandwich) to $10 (salad). I sometimes bring in a Lean Cuisine or microwaveable soup, so like $1-2 for those days. I could save money by making similar items myself (OP, that’s a nice subsidy!), but… I don’t want to and this is comfortable spending on my income, so no :)

    10. A middle way would be to bring lunch twice a week or so. Some dinner recipes lend themselves more readily to cooking more and reheating than others. Make a pot of soup or a pasta salad on the weekend and take it to work twice if changing your whole routine is daunting.

    11. That sounds SUPER reasonable for lunches to me, but I work in SF so never mind me.
      I think what would matter in the equation: do you cook dinners often, & if so can you make enough to have extra for lunches? That would potentially be a lower cost equation than what you are doing.
      Or, how opposed are you to eating the same thing every day for lunch? i.e. if you bought the ingredients to make really good turkey sandwiches & had turkey sandwiches every day until those ingredients run out, you may come out ahead. But if you mentally need one day to be turkey, one day to be ham, etc. etc. then my guess would be you would not unless you use the ingredients for other things and/or are very good/disciplined in your freezing & thawing excess food methods.
      I am personally on team the-effort-is-not-worth-it (to me), but I admire people that are able to be disciplined about this.

    12. A mix of $4 Amy’s frozen lunches and $10-12 lunches out (nothing fancy and I live in a LCOL area, but it’s hard to get a sandwich for less than $9+tax and tip). I never pack a lunch and have no interest in trying to cut back on lunch spending. I have more money than time, and I keep my fixed expenses low so I don’t have to worry about small luxuries like this.

    13. I pack my lunch only because we have no cafeteria on site. I miss the days of a subsidized cafeteria – I’d appreciate it and use if I were you, and I would focus on Amazon and other things. Sigh…

    14. I spent a total of $627 on getting lunch out or picking up snacks during work in 2019, which honestly shocked me because I normally bring my lunch. I eat out maybe once a month with co-workers, but I also hit up our office café for snacks in the afternoon way too often. Seeing that number was good motivation to remember to bring an afternoon snack in with my lunch.

      Anyways, to answer your question, I bring my lunch to work basically every day. I picked up lunch fairly often when I was in biglaw, but figured this was an easy way to cut out unnecessary spending that I didn’t get joy from. I normally make a dish over the weekend that I then put in tupperware for each day of the week. Since what I make varies and it is included in my overall grocery spending, I’m not exactly sure how much I’m spending on groceries for the lunches. My guess is that each lunch comes in at less than $2.

    15. I bring food to work every day and the total cost (breakfast & lunch) is under $5, with the most expensive parts being a Kind bar (~$1, bought on sale in bulk) and veggie cup noodle/frozen pizza/hummus and veggies/other frozen meal ($1-2). I think if your cost is $2-5.50 and it’s food you like that fits your dietary needs, that’s pretty good and it’s going to be hard to beat with food from home unless you’re really on top of meal prepping.

    16. I bring my lunch everyday for a mix of budget and health. I don’t know how much money I spend on making lunches, but I’ve spent around ~$350 a month for groceries for my husband and me in 2019. I like to cook, and we have no problem eating leftovers so I can meal prep.

      1. Same, right down to the monthly budget. (Abby, sometimes I think you and I could be twins!)

        1. Lol that’s funny! 2019 was my first year tracking and having that goal – I think it was pretty attainable for us but I count alcohol separate.

    17. Chill. That’s super cheap. It’s okay if “keeping myself alive by eating food” is a thing that takes some of your budget.

    18. Amazon: I let my prime membership expire. Yes you loose media access and whatever other perks there are, but you also lose the immediate gratification of next day shipping for every single little thing you order. It’s helped me to make a few larger purchases (say, one or two orders a quarter) for items I can’t find in stores. I keep a list and load up my cart and don’t hit buy till I have to. It’s an extreme option but it helps cut down on the process of see it, buy it, get it, repeat that.
      I also watched and read a few docs on how bad the working conditions are for amazon workers and that curbed my enthusiasm a bit for buying from the company. I don’t think Amazon will go out of business due to my choices, denying these people their current jobs, but I feel better knowing I’m not adding that often to their workload. YMMV on this point.
      Good luck with cutting back on your Amazon purchases! It’s a great goal and both your budget and recycling/trash can will thank you, as there will be less shipping box crap to deal with too. I hope you are happier this year with less purchasing.
      Lunches: It sounds like you aren’t paying that much for lunch and I am not sure you could beat the low end price by packing your own.I think I’d buy a lot more lunches from work if they were subsidized at my company. If you aren’t used to packing a lunch it is an extra task and will add time from your nightly or morning routine. Agree with Cb, tackling amazon may be the best choice. And it’s easier to focus on one thing at a time.

      1. I’m with you on Amazon except I’m boycotting them altogether — I live in NYC, there’s nothing I can’t find locally with a little effort.

        On lunches — I usually bring some sort of leftovers. I live alone so I often end up making too much food (most recently a cheesy black eyed pea casserole!), so I split it up into 1 cup tupperwares and stick it in my freezer. When making dinner I sometimes make a bit extra of something (rice, veggies) to have for lunch. In the morning I cobble something together from a combo of fridge and freezer. It saves me money and also hugely cuts down on food waste since before I started doing this I would end up throwing out a lot of leftovers that went bad before I could eat it all. When I know I will be having a busy week, I will sometimes also cook a pot of beans and a pot of rice and bring that, plus random veggies, for lunch all week. I have no idea how much it costs, but I haven’t noticed a significant change in my grocery budget since I started bringing in food. I would think that bringing your own is healthier than cafeteria food, but that depends on what your cafeteria is offering.

        1. wow, I don’t think I could cobble something together on the fly in my morning brain-fog!

    19. I bring breakfast and lunch to work everyday (as does my partner, so there is some saved effort in doing 2 of everything).

      I’m working with Toronto prices/CAD, and would estimate our breakfast costs around $0.75 each – that’s a thermos of coffee made with whole beans from Costco, greek yogurt (from Costco if I’ve been recently, otherwise whatever is cheapest at the discount grocery), some berries, and a sprinkling of high-protein granola.

      Lunches are more variable, but I would estimate about $1.50 – $2 per average serving. That usually gets us 4 ounces of a homemade, cheaper cut of meat, 4ish ounces of veggies (typically from frozen in winter, but depends), and some nominal starch. These are small lunches. These can be things like: pulled pork, meatloaf, roast beef, ribs, lasagna, etc. Everything is made in advance and portioned and put in the freezer. Occasionally there will be leftovers from dinner as an option.

      Saving money on these meals means more money for nicer dinner and eating out. Plus, bringing food from home leads to way smaller portions for me, which is ultimately good for my health/waistline. I have a very firm “no buying food at work” policy.

    20. I pack lunch 90% of the time because I have expensive hobbies (horses, skiing – I know we share those!) and I also have philosophical objections to paying 12.50+ for a salad. Lunch is SO expensive in the Bay Area and it just feels fundamentally wrong to pay that much for what is at its core lettuce. I’ll sometimes get one or a soup from the place closest to me in a pinch, but it feels absurd and not worth it.

    21. We meal prep at home and bring lunch 4 days a week (sometimes it’s 5 for me; my husband likes to eat out one day a week). I don’t think we’re spending less than $2-$3 on each meal because we buy organic ingredients, especially protein. We probably spend less than $5 per meal because we do a lot of crock-pot cooking for meal prep so we can use less-expensive cuts of meat. But we’re not in a HCOL area and we do most of our of shopping at Costco, and so our grocery costs are low to average. From traveling to places like NYC and San Francisco, etc., I know if you are in one of those areas your groceries will be way more expensive than mine.

      I think if you want to try taking your lunch, you could try prepping soup or grain bowls for a week and see if you like it and if you end up spending less. Pro tip, you don’t save money if you throw the food out. We only prep what we will eat or can freeze for later. We don’t meal prep untested recipes that we may not end up liking. Also – I’m not sure what your cafeteria food is like, but our meal preps are much healthier (smaller portions, less fat, less salt) than purchased food. It may not be cheaper for you to bring food from home but it might be healthier (or it might not be, depending on what you’re eating in the cafeteria).

    22. For that price I’d buy lunch too! I bring leftovers from dinner the night before about 90% of the time.

    23. I can’t figure out how to go entirely without amazon yetso I’ve weaned down to a monthly order. Add stuff to my cart throughout the month but seeing it all at once before I order makes me rethink a lot of stuff.

    24. Can’t break it down by cost but this is what I do.

      Each week I let myself buy one coffee, one bagel, and one lunch. I bring all of my breakfasts/lunches/snacks/coffees the rest of the week and eat at work.

      My weekly grocery budget ranges anywhere from $30-$60/week. This covers all of my work breakfast/lunch/snacks, most dinners, and some weekend meals.

      This week I spent $38 on groceries. I ate out last night and will eat out tomorrow night but all other meals were covered by that.

    25. Thanks y’all – I’ve sort of been figuring that the amount I’d (maybe) save in meal prepping is not worth the effort. The cafeteria food is decent but not exciting, and reasonably healthy – there’s always a veggie side, the protein tends to be reasonably healthy like a grilled chicken or salmon, the soups are usually pretty good, there’s a salad bar. It’s better quality than frozen meals generally are. I rarely have time to cook at home (usually get home late after the climbing gym or other socializing) so no leftovers. It was just jarring to see I’d spend thousands at the work cafeteria – even though I get that I have to eat on a daily basis, and that it obviously costs something!

      1. When you say thousands – even just $2000 comes out to over $7/day if you buy 5 days a week. Either your $2-5.5 is overly optimistic, or there’s lots of coffees and snacks going on. Since you have last year’s spending in front of you, you can break it down for a brutally honest look. Or maybe you meant closer to $1000, then disregard my comment.

        1. Ah! At second glance, there were a few bigger medical bills that snuck in as they show up under roughly the same name. So yeah, around $1,000, which feels not unreasonable for the convenience.

  15. I have been looking to refinance my 5.5-7% federal student loans. I will get a bonus of $25,000+ in February, and my goal is to put 90% of the take home to loans. Should I wait to apply for refinancing until I’ve done this big payment, or is it better to apply now and make a big payment once I’m on the refinanced plan? I was planning to use the bonus to prevent any capitalization in the refinance but I’m wondering if there are other timing factors I should consider. TIA!

  16. Any airplane experts out there? I take the new Delta CRJ900 on a weekly basis and am looking to figure out which Away carry-on suitcase to purchase. I would like the Bigger version but all my googling is returning me middling search results. Can anyone weigh in? Thanks in advance.

    1. I’m sure you’ve already come across this in the googling, but would Seat Guru or Flight Aware be good resources for this? A lot of user supplied data, I think forums too maybe?

    2. The new ones have 40% bigger overhead bins for economy, but I don’t know what that translates to in measurements sorry!

    4. Two separate issues with the CRJ series. Will a rollaboard fit in the overhead bins? On the newer planes, yes. Older planes, maybe. Will they fit one a full flight when everyone else also has a rollaboard? Nope, you’ll be gate checking.

      1. If she flies weekly, she is in an early boarding group and doesn’t need to worry about full flights.

      2. I don’t know about this knew “bigger” Away bag, but I fly on Delta CRJ900s all the time and have never had to gate check my rollaboard (the original size Away). I have status and get on early though, perhaps if you board in the last couple groups there won’t be space. But they won’t confiscate bags until the overhead bins are completely full, and if you can get on in the first 3/4ths of passengers it should be fine.

    5. I have the bigger carryon, and I’ve never had any trouble fitting it into an overhead on a domestic flight.

  17. I’m in need of some new podcasts. I like the outdoors, interesting stories about history or culture (like what you’d read in Smithsonian magazine), public health, architecture, and personal finance. I also prefer episodes at least 30 mins long since I don’t like jumping around a lot. Any recs? Also, what are your favorite podcast apps for iOS? I’m not loving my current one.

    3. Going anon since I’ve recommended this to coworkers – The Land of Desire is a podcast I enjoy about French history and culture. Some episodes are more serious than others but topics range from how escargot came to be so “French” to discussion of historical figures to the story of Julia Child’s (and friends’) intense work on Mastering the Art of French Cooking.

    4. I don’t know about iOS but the best podcast app I’ve found is Google Podcasts.

    5. 99% Invisible if you don’t already listen. I’ve also just started going through the back catalog of the Art Curious podcast and I’m enjoying that, too.

      1. Was going to suggest 99% Invisible! It’s been around for a while so there’s plenty of episodes available.

        I recently discovered No Such Thing as a Fish, which is a podcast by the folks who write questions for the British quiz show QI. Funny and informative.

        My absolute favorite podcast is Criminal – ostensibly it’s about true crime, but the stories are often deep, fascinating historical dives. And the host’s voice is sublime.

    6. I adore Slate’s Lexicon Valley, which is about words and language. There’s a lot of history and culture and just plain “why we say things this way” that you’d never thought about before.

      This is shorter then your requests, but I think everyone should listen to More or Less from the BBC, which takes apart numbers that are in the news – explains where the stats came from, whether they are reliable, and what they mean in context.

    7. I recently found Noble Blood podcast. History, royalty, murder, intrigue. They are fascinating! Each is usually 25-30 minutes. I devoured a bunch while I was painting a bathroom over the holidays.

    8. you probably already listen to Radiolab. If not, what are you waiting for?
      I use PodcastAddict, but my phone is Android.

    10. Favorite personal finance podcasts include She Makes Money Moves and Talking Green.

      Also listen to Skimm This every morning when getting ready and like Pod Save the World while working out.

    12. I love, love, love the Revolutions podcast. Seriously, it is amazing. Instead of jumping around unrelated topics, each season is a deep dive, and there are overarching themes explored that I never really thought about before. If you start now, you can listen to 9 seasons straight through. I’m almost jealous. And then you can go listen to the whole History of Rome. You’re Dead to Me! is a fun hodgepodge-type one, and I also listen to Tides of History occasionally- and Hardcore History, of course.

  18. To celebrate the end of the first full work week in forever, can we have another unpopular opinion thread? Those are always so fun!
    Mine is: I can’t stand the TV show Fleabag. I don’t think it’s funny at all, all the characters are terrible people and watching them do awful things to each other is miserable, and the hot priest isn’t even that hot. (I will say that I think the lead actress is gorgeous and I seriously covet her hair and wardrobe, but that’s the only thing I find appealing about the show.)
    Your turn…what are your unpopular opinions?

    2. Mine is that I think it’s ridiculous that so many people care about the goings on of the English royal family, especially if you aren’t a resident of the area. There are just so many things you can spend your mental energy on and anyone getting riled up about it (again, especially if your tax dollars aren’t involved) needs a hobby. Tbh this is just another reason for the argument to nullify the royal family in general, they have no real political purpose except as pretty people to say hello to their previous (violently taken) colonies.

      1. LOL! I definitely understand this viewpoint. For me, it’s just a fun distraction from all the terrible world news.

        1. +1
          Some people like niche areas of history like world war II buffs or what have you. I like the history of the royal family.

        2. +1 – reading about the royals is so much less rage inducing than all of our DJT/Iran/Impeachment…

      4. I find it interesting because I find different governance structures interesting (my undergrad is related). They’re the heads of state for like 1/4 of the world’s countries. They aren’t supposed to have a political purpose – they are non-political. It’s the idea of the head of state and head of government being too different things and the head of the state being politically netural and how that works when younger royal family members want to be political. The Queen must be doing something right if all these countries haven’t decided to ditch her yet. EU hat incident a few years ago was a classic QEII move.

    3. I hate, hate, hate talk shows (special vitriol reserved for the Today Show). I can’t stand the fake friendliness, the discussion of topics I have no interest in, and the snarky drama. People say “did you watch Jimmy Fallon?!!” and the answer is always “nope, never have.”

      Others: Will Ferrell is annoying and not funny. Decorating with words is tacky af.

      1. OMG THANK YOU I super dislike Will Ferrell and his beady little eyes and slapstick (poorly timed) comedy style and no one gets it. I will literally not watch an entire movie if he plays any role.

      2. I like Will Ferrell in small doses, when he does bit parts in movies. Even though I love silly comedy in general, I’ve always found him way too much in lead roles.

        1. I’m the original hater and those are bad but “Keep calm and carry on” and its 19829024298 variations might be the worst for me, especially if it’s something like “Keep calm and wine on” or “Keep calm and Red Sox on.” Fast track to me not being calm is reading one of those effing signs.

          3. Particularly if it’s in that bouncy faux-effervescent ‘hand-lettered’ script.

      5. I have pretty much only liked Will Ferrell in Elf and Stranger than Fiction. Everything else, not so much.

    4. Saturday Night Live remains profoundly unfunny to me. I laughed when John Mulaney hosted and that’s been it.

        1. I am feeling very basic right now because I like Ed Sheeran and Will Ferrell! I hate grainy body scrubs, bath bombs, beets in any form (which is sad, because beet salads are often so beautifully composed with other, yummy ingredients) and animated shows for adults, like that awful, filthy one with the talking baby.

        2. I hate Ed Sheeran so much. Actually all of the modern “crooner” solo male artists. Their songs are crap.

          1. I very loudly and vehemently yell at that gaddam shape of you song every time I hear it. WHAT ABOUT HER BRAIN, ED? You in love with that?!?!

            Sorry.

      2. I’m the talk show hater and I hate SNL too. It’s not even rational at this point but I just hate them all. Give me a great period or political drama and I’m a happy camper, but yapping talk show hosts gunning aggressively for canned laughs and just put me out of my misery.

    5. I do not like Tom Hanks. He bugs me for a reason I can’t explain. I also think that he doesn’t play his characters all that differently. To me they are the same. I won’t watch a movie that he is in.

      1. He cheated on his first wife, so I’ve never really understood why he has such a “nice guy” persona. Good people make mistakes, sure, and I definitely believe that he’s overall a nice person who hasn’t let his fame go to his head, but I’ve never understood why he’s held up as such a paragon of virtue.

          1. wtf really?? Tom Hanks is my all time favorite actor and this is disappointing to hear.

    6. I really agree that the hot priest isn’t that hot. Maybe it’s because I didn’t grow up and am not christian/catholic so there’s none of that taboo.

      1. One thing I have noticed about British TV is that they tend to use more actors that look like real people. As apposed to all of the plastic ageless too beautiful for real life Hollywood actors. So I think the priest is kinda cute, and it is his personality that makes him “hot” too. This is very British, and I enjoy that angle.

        Recently I was watching a really good British TV series with a male family member, and he made a comment along the lines of…. “THAT’S the wife of (our main character)?!?!?! She looks old enough to be his mother!!” I cleared my throat and said…. No, she is the same age he is. You are just so programmed to think our male heros/leads who are in their 40’s and 50’s should be paired with 25 year old waifs that you have forgotten what is appropriate.

        But what do I know. I’m just a 50 year old American woman who has not had an age appropriate man express interest in me for…. I wont even tell you how many years. The last man who gave me the side eye was in his 70s I kid you not. Thank goodness I’m free and done with men. It is so liberating!!!

      2. Also, the “hot priest” actor was Moriarty on Sherlock. I simply cannot see him as anything but a deranged lunatic.

    7. – I also cannot stand talk shows or morning shows and if I’m at the gym, or in a hotel breakfast room where they’re on, I will put headphones in so I don’t have to hear them. I don’t watch live TV period and I don’t feel like I miss much. Anything that’s really funny will end up as a clip on YouTube an hour later; you don’t have to watch the whole show and waste an hour of time to see the five-minute funny parts.
      – I do not understand the endurance of Saturday Night Live. We watched the Eddie Murphy episode – the first full episode I’ve watched in over a decade – and while he was funny, I remained unimpressed with the rest of the show.
      – I can’t stand Starbucks and yet I got $75 worth of gift cards to Starbucks for Christmas. They’re getting regifted.
      – I don’t understand the popularity of “teddy bear” coats or any coats made of something you could make a stuffed animal out of. Heinously unflattering + excessively juvenile = fashion win? I don’t think so.

      1. Anyone have suggestions on how to organize a drawer of workout clothes? We just got a new dresser that has shorter drawers than the previous dresser. (DH picked this out– I trusted his opinion but after this, I will no longer let him buy furniture by himself.) I cannot figure out how to organize this drawer. I’ve already taken out everything that’s “warm weather,” but now I’m left with a pile of black leggings for all different purposes (running in different temperatures and studio classes) of all different lengths and types. Bigger issue is that since it is so hard to find anything I keep thinking I don’t have pants for something since I can’t find them and buy more, etc. which then adds to the clutter in the drawer.

      2. I hate Starbucks coffee, but I love their coffee cake. I plan to use all my Sbux gift cards on that (gradually of course, haha).

    8. I don’t like musicals or animation (including but not limited to, The Simpsons).

        1. I love musicals, and I’m going to skip that Cats movie. Which leads to my unpopular opinion (or apparently unpopular, based on how long that stupid musical ran): Cats the musical is terrible. Awful. The only one I’ve ever considered walking out of. It has no plot. It has one good song. It is otherwise garbage and was clearly written while Andrew Lloyd Webber was on a bad acid trip or something. (That episode of Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt about Cats was hilarious as a result of this opinion)

          1. Yes. I LOVE musicals and Cats is awful. I bought season tickets to Broadway in my city this year for Hamilton, and Cats is the only one I’m skipping. Blech. Hate it.

    9. I always sound like a serial killer, but I don’t like comedies. I’d rather watch a drama or action, and in most movies, the trailer gives away the funniest parts. But for instance, loved Guardians of the Galaxy, because there was an unexpected comedy aspect, not because it was the main selling point.

        1. Yes! I shamelessly love all the Marvel movies, I think they’re actually good. Funny Thor is WAY better than serious Thor.

      2. Most comedies these days just aren’t funny — whether movies or on TV. I don’t know who’s writing this stuff, but I just can’t find the humor in them. And IRL, my friends all consider me funny and I have a good sense of humor, though it leans more toward the sarcastic side.

        Stupid humor, mouthy kids and the dumb dad/husband thing is overdone and not all that funny, and that’s what everyone seems to try to sell.

      1. That’s not that unpopular! I hate it too and I think I read somewhere once that 25% of people do.

    11. I am another talk show hater. My dislike also extends to radio talk shows. Some more unpopular opinions: I don’t like yoga, brunch, or traveling I’m a traitor to my fellow milennials); fake eyelashes look ridiculous and so does bleached blonde hair and winged eyeliner

      1. I don’t think this is that unpopular an opinion anymore, fortunately. The tide may be turning against performative wokeness.

    13. Jeans are really uncomfortable
      I don’t like most cookies, cakes, or pies (people are often personally offended by this and/or can’t let it go, which I find irritating)
      I like listening to music on CDs
      I think engagement rings are stupid

      1. +1 to no on cookies, cakes, and pies. I hate hate hate those office birthday cakes. It makes me want to vomit when I watch coworkers shovel that plasticky goo with undissolved sugar frosting into their mouths. I have personally offended many hosts by politely declining sweets. I’ve had better luck declining alcohol.

        1. This made me laugh because grocery store birthday cake is the only kind that I want ever.

      2. +1million to CDs. Until apple clearly states that they will remove DRM I am buying and properly owning all my music, thank you.

      3. on that note, I think pies are a category of cake. I don’t give them their own special category. Maybe more of a niche than an unpopular opinion.

        1. I’m willing to listen, but please explain this unpopular opinion because my knee jerk is that they’re so so different.

          1. they’re both sweet treats, pie crust is just a particular kind of dough and you bake ’em both. Pies are just cakes with (mostly) fruit filling. Cake is such a diverse group already, with frosted chocolate cakes, tartes, brownie and other sheetcakes, English pudding, that I don’t see why to make an exceptional category for pie.
            I will make an exception for things that come in one-portion sizes like cookies and pastry, even though I don’t think it’s 100% consistent cause they really are the same material.

          2. For me, it’s more that I dislike them all for the same reason. They’re all made with ground up stuff, fat, and sweetener, which I never want to eat in combination.

            To me this also explains the things I actually like, like pies that are savory, angel food cake which leaves out the fat and the crumblike texture, baklava, and mousse.

    14. Two unpopular opinions –

      – I don’t like the beach or ocean. If I never saw the ocean again in my life, I think I would be perfectly fine with that. I’m a lake/mountains/city girl. (I also have never enjoyed eating fish or any seafood and I have a fear of deep water, so that also likely contributes to this attitude).

      – I hate tailgating. I love, love, love sporting events, I enjoy tailgating type foods, and I’m okay with day drinking, but I just want to go to the sporting event, watch the sporting event, and then leave the sporting event and go home. I don’t want to hang out in a parking lot or walk miles to a bathroom or use a porta potty. Why can’t I eat before the game at a bar/restaurant? I’ve found that I generally do not like any activity where I have to schlep stuff outdoors (like the beach or camping). Hike all day long? sure thing. Camp? no way in heck.

      2. I like peanut butter ok (it’s not my favorite but I don’t hate it) but I agree it doesn’t belong anywhere near chocolate.

      3. I like peanuts ok but really don’t like peanut butter. I also don’t like nutella (maybe I just don’t like nuts in spread form?).

    17. I don’t like puppies or chocolate. I don’t like my food to be liquid or my drinks hot.

    18. I don’t understand going to concerts. If I like the music, I can just listen to it at home/in my car. Why am I paying all this money and spending all this time to go see it live? It never sounds as good to me.

    19. I hate small talk. I can do it but find it completely draining and will sometimes ask purposely invasive questions to either get the person to tell a longer story so I can just listen or so we can end it right there.

    20. I don’t think animals are morally equivalent to humans and I don’t think one’s obligation to one’s pet(s) is even close to one’s obligation to other actual human beings.

      1. I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion, I think it is a common one. Most people think that you have an obligation to pets, yes – you have to feed them, house them, etc. But very, very few people actually think it is anything like the obligation you have to children, and most other people think they are crazy.

      2. Omg yes! Also, why donate to animal (pet, not wildlife) rescue charities? There are so many worthy charities that help humans in need.

    21. I don’t like leggings – I find them constricting and uncomfortable, no matter how soft the fabric, and the seams always leave marks on my legs.

    22. I dislike pets of any variety and have no desire to be in a home with any type of animal.

    23. I hate wedding and engagement talk, especially in women under 25.
      Girl, the color scheme of your wedding and whether you had 3 bridesmaids or 100 is of absolutely NO importance to me. And why do you think it matters what cheesy “punny” theme you have for the bridesmaid invitations???

      1. I don’t give a crap about anyone’s wedding at any age and I’m sick of all the posts on here about it. It’s the ultimate exercise in narcissism.

    24. I don’t love traveling. One 3-4 day trip every 12-18 mos is plenty. My 35-40 year old peers who are constantly planning their next trip, taking 1000 pics of the place and the food to put it on IG look at me like I have 3 heads or am poor or lonely or something.

      1. +1000. The stress of planning travel, plus the fact that I won’t truly be able to unplug and will still be working , make it just not worth it to me. I have one friend who plans “dream vacations” for trips she’s not even taking, which I do not understand at all. The last thing I want to do with my free time is make any decisions.

    25. Judd Apatow movies are 1000x longer than they need to be and it makes them not funny.

    26. Matthew McConaughey. He drives me nuts. Cannot stand to see or hear him. I simply cannot comprehend his popularity. I refuse to watch anything — tv show, movie, commercial, with him in it.
      Also plus one for hating jeans. No matter the style, brand or fabric I find them constricting and horribly uncomfortable.

      1. I also hate Matthew McCanoughy (??? I don’t know or really care how to spell his name). He’s like nails on a chalkboard. The last movie I liked that had him in it was A Time to Kill and I still think it would have been better with a different actor.

        I hate, hate, hate cheesecake. I don’t understand the appeal at all. The texture and taste are extremely gross. Somewhat relatedly Cheesecake Factory could disappear off the face of the earth and I’d never miss it. You can order a huge variety of food from their lengthy menu, but none of it tastes good.

        I hate pretty much all frosting (except a thin layer of cream cheese frosting or chocolate ganache) and for that reason dislike cupcakes.

        Almost all action and superhero movies are boring. I’ve never seen a Star Wars movie all the way through and, judging from the portions I’ve seen, I’m not missing anything.

        French manicures always look terrible. I dread them making a comeback.

    27. I bought a Juul to see what all the hype was about and I freaking love it.

  19. Advice for capturing your billable hours on days that are spent chasing emails and phone calls? As I’ve gotten more senior (10 years out) I find it’s much harder to get a decent ratio of billable time to time at work. I spend most of my day following up, in short calls or meetings, responding to email,
    delegating work, etc. And somehow I spend 10+ hours at the office working at a breakneck speed to keep up with the competing demands that come in all day, but I only have like 5 billable hours to show for it.

    Here’s an example of how this plays out: let’s say I receive and respond to 10 emails in an hour for three different clients; 4 for client A, 4 for client B, 2 for client C. My entire hour was taken up with these emails and I didn’t have time to switch to other tasks, but each email only took me 3 minutes to read and respond to. So I’m going to bill clients A and B .2 each and client C .1. Now I have only .5 captured for that whole hour.

    I worry my superiors are going to think I’m lazy. I’m delegating a lot of work, but my hours don’t match the time or effort I’m putting in. How do most people deal with this?

    1. I don’t bill in six minute increments, but I spread out my email time across the projects I worked on that day. If I know I spent an hour on my inbox and at least 50% of those emails were for Client A’s project, that’s what I bill to. However, I’m not in law so your standards might be different.

    2. In this scenario, I would bill a 0.1 for each email. You actually spent an hour answering 10 emails. You either are underestimating your time reviewing and responding to each email, you are not capturing other tasks in between emails, or you are wasting time checking the internet or getting coffee or chatting with colleagues in between emails. From your description, it sounds like you’re underestimating the amount of time it takes to review and respond to an email. (I don’t think it’s always appropriate to bill a 0.1 for each and every email, but it sounds like you’re not capturing time actually spent.)

      1. This is helpful thanks. It’s more like, I respond to email 1, then I try to shift back to reviewing a draft of something, but before I can figure out where I left off, email 2 comes in and I have to respond to it. Rinse and repeat.

        1. How truly urgent are these emails? Can you set times to check your email every 30 minutes or so? I get a lot of emails that are pretty urgent, but I’ve found that pretty much anything can wait for a half hour.

          1. It’s a good suggestion. I use email as an example of what’s happening. It might be a quick call or someone stopping by my office. The client calls me, an associate has a question, partner wants an update, secretary wants to know if document should be double sided like usual, court calls with a hearing date, co-counsel wants to set up a call, etc. Something that takes only a couple minutes but it’s all. day. long. Some days I feel like I’m basically a call center. I’ve accepted that real work happens outside of business hours, but I’m struggling to capture the amount of work I’m doing during the day.

          2. This is totally my life some days too. I often close my door to focus on real work, forcing the associate, secretary, and partner (from your example) to email, and I can then respond to them when I take a “break.” It’s the only thing that works. I don’t do it for more than a couple of hours a day, but this way I always feel like I have something to show for my day.

        2. This will depending on your retainer/client guidelines, but when this happens to me (daily) I usually group these email threads into one billing entry. It has not been flagged for block billing before. .5 review and respond to multiple correspondences from client A regarding issue X

    3. When I billed, if I know I’m working on multiple matters back and forth, I used a timer app that had multiple time streams and clicked on one as soon as I switched to the matter and the time ran until I switched to another matter. If I’m working constantly with no real breaks (which to me are more than 6 minutes – I stopped clocks for a real walk away and sip a bit coffee breaks and bathroom breaks but not for 30 second refill my hot water breaks), then one matter only stops when the other matter begins. Part of the billing includes tracking what I did for accurate billing and transitioning out of that matter.
      In general I found it easier to to answer multiple emails addressing one matter at once, as much as I could in naturally billable increments, then switch to another group of emails instead of hopping back one to another. I don’t know of any practice that can’t wait 5 to 6 minutes between responses.

      1. I’m intrigued! What app did you use? I don’t think my billing software can do this but I’m going to look into it. Thanks!

        1. I write down start and stop times on a notepad and then enter the total and narrative later.

    4. You are definitely underbilling your time. If email #1 is read and responded to in 3 minutes, that is 0.1. x10. Use your docket narrative to delineate how they are different.

  20. Hello wise group! I am hoping someone can help. My husband’s snoring has gotten out of hand over the last few months (we believe due to some medication he has started that is otherwise good/necessary). I know that can be medically concerning for him & he is working with medical professionals to make sure it’s not (so far the medical opinion seems to be that it’s not medically concerning) – so, advice on that aspect aside:

    Assuming this is not a quick fix, what do folks on here do????? Honestly we barely sleep in the same bedroom anymore which is sad & not always a solution (i.e. vacations). I did get him to buy some mouthguard thing online that promised to help but his initial tests of it have left him super uncomfortable & unable to sleep with. Breathe Rights do nothing. It is beyond the scope of ear plugs helping me. HELP???!!! I’ve thought about an adjustable bed that could elevate him mid sleep? But not sure that will work and that would be an expensive test.

    1. My husband sleeps on a wedge pillow and it helps somewhat. It’s not a perfect solution though. I also wear earplugs (which I did pre-his-snoring anyway).

    2. The only way I can sleep in the same room with my snoring husband is to wear noise-cancelling headphones. I have the Bose wired variety, so no concerns about long-term Bluetooth exposure. I disconnect the cord from the headphones so it won’t strangle me. They are a little uncomfortable to wear while sleeping, but they block the noise effectively.

      1. More so than ear plugs? I gather?
        This sounds so uncomfortable! But good to add it to my arsenal of options.

    3. I slept in a different room than my husband for years until he finally got CPAP. Now he feels better (doesn’t need day-time naps anymore now that he is actually sleeping at night) and I can sleep in the same bed as him. It’s been life-changing for both of us.

      1. Did he get diagnosed with Sleep Apnea or similar to get a CPAP?
        I looked briefly into these but was worried with just run of the mill snoring it might not be an option.

        1. He went in for a sleep study. I think that would be a good first step for snoring.

    4. My husband has a mouthguard type thing that was created for him from an impression of his mouth and teeth. Don’t know if your husband got that or if he bought something off the shelf but it’s life-changing. He doesn’t like wearing it and won’t until I ask him to each night, but it does work, almost perfectly. He knows that if he doesn’t wear it, I’ll move to the guest room, so he does usually comply. Give it a try! Way less invasive/hassle than a Cpap machine or surgery…

      1. I JUST bought a pair of QuietOn Sleep ear buds for myself for this very reason. I will post the link separately. I can’t explain why or how they work, but I have been using them for a few days and am sleeping better and my husband is getting punched and kicked less often. I found the ear buds in the middle of the night when googling how to stop snoring. There were some Bose sleep ear buds that some people liked, but they were discontinued.

          1. Oh, interesting. Not cheap! But you think they work better than ear plugs? Intrigued.

  21. I recently found Noble Blood podcast. History, royalty, murder, intrigue. They are fascinating! Each is usually 25-30 minutes. I devoured a bunch while I was painting a bathroom over the holidays.

  22. We’ve had an accountant do our taxes for the past 3 years. Our returns are pretty simple (W2s, retirement accounts, mortgage, some donations), but it’s been totally worth the cost to not have to deal with it ourselves. But we just moved from Massachusetts to the Midwest in the middle of the year. I assume it’s probably still fine to have my MA accountant do the taxes for both states this year? They said they can handle it (but I mean…why would they say no to keeping my business?).

    But for next year, should we try to find a local accountant who is more experienced with the tax system in our new state? And if so, what should I be aware of when switching accountants? (Like should I make sure to keep certain records so I’m not relying on the old accountant to transfer things?)

    TIA!

    1. Sounds like you’d be fine with Turbotax. I have more complicated taxes than that (a rental in another state which has an income tax, while my own state does not) and it’s more than adequate for the task.

  23. Anyone have suggestions on how to organize a drawer of workout clothes? We just got a new dresser that has shorter drawers than the previous dresser. (DH picked this out– I trusted his opinion but after this, I will no longer let him buy furniture by himself.) I cannot figure out how to organize this drawer. I’ve already taken out everything that’s “warm weather,” but now I’m left with a pile of black leggings for all different purposes (running in different temperatures and studio classes) of all different lengths and types. Bigger issue is that since it is so hard to find anything I keep thinking I don’t have pants for something since I can’t find them and buy more, etc. which then adds to the clutter in the drawer.

    1. I konmari fold my workout clothes – but it’s less helpful if you have many of the same color and different lengths. Organizing in boxes based on length could be helpful.

    3. Organize based on types in boxes in the drawers. Yoga box, running box, hiking box, etc. I roll my clothes. So for leggings, fold in half, then roll and put in the box. Much easier than folding.

    4. I KonMari fold mine. As a side, it’s the only clothing that works folded with her technique for me. They take up WAY less space and it’s easy to pick and choose while keeping the rest neat. With a lot of all black but different lengths or thicknesses (not a challenge I have) to tell them apart I might do different rows or separate the length/thickness with a thin book end, a pair of a different colour.

      1. Counter-point: I KonMari fold everything and leggings are the least successful in my opinion. They dont hold their shape so I cant line them up without them falling when I take 1 pair out to wear. Also, I can kind of tell from texture, but it’s a lot of black leggings in a row. It’s not always easy to tell which is which, particularly since the color is often on the bottom, which gets hidden when you fold them. I love KonMari for my t-shirts, jeans, etc.

  24. Does anyone have an on-line or digital portfolio for their work. If yes, how do you structure it, e.g., talks, publications, videos made (either by or of you) etc.? If you’re in hiring, do you find this useful, particularly in the social sciences or marketing or research? Any other thoughts on this? I’m applying to research jobs and this is a requirement for one place and I was wondering if it is a useful tool generally.

  25. WWYD: In cities like NYC and SF, how long would you stay in a studio apartment? I’m single and have been living in various moderately sized studio for 9 years (300 – 400 square feet). I’m getting a bit tired of it and would love to move to larger one bedroom this year, but that would mean doubling the monthly rent from 15% of take-home (current) to 30% of take-home Biglaw pay if I want to stay in my neighborhood (or anywhere with a <20 minute commute, really).

    A lot of my friends are in early to mid 30s and pairing off, and buying $1.5M condos and houses in the close-in suburbs with a lot of help from parents, which may be sparkling some envy in me.

    Cons to moving: Financially responsible me knows that I won't last forever in Biglaw (it's a recent transition), I don't spend all that much time in my apartment, I decorated current studio quite nicely and the furniture has a homey feel so it's not like I'm living in a dump. Housing orices aee at an all-time high, and my rent is low compared to market. I like to travel and the low overhead allows me to take luxury trips once in a while. I like the relative financial independance that comes with low overhead.

    Pros to moving: I want a bigger space foe all my furniture. Also want a nice couch for entertaing, and could really use / want more windows and separate bedroom. (This sounds so spoiled in my head.)

    Advice on ways to frame this decision in my mind? Talk me down? What would you do?

    1. Personally, I focus on that the money that would have to go to the increased apartment cost is currently doing for me. Is it going to pay off student loans? How much longer would it take to pay off those loans if you moved to a one bedroom? Is it worth it to you to need the additional time to pay them off in exchange for a better living situation? Or is it going to save for a down-payment? Is it worth it to have a smaller place now so that you can save for a better long-term place?

      There is no right answer. It is reasonable to want to live in a one-bedroom as a 30-something in biglaw. and it is also reasonable to want to stay in a studio because you have better uses for that money. But I find that focusing on the trade-offs helps me find the right answer for me.

    2. Not in NYC or SF (elsewhere in VHCOL coastal CA). In your place I probably wouldn’t move. We spent a lot on rent because we spend a lot of time at home, value the quiet that we can’t get living in an apartment, and like to cook. Our travel and dining out budgets are essentially zero so it seems justifiable to spend more living in a bigger place we really like, but if I were you, I’m not sure I’d do it.

    3. In your position I likely wouldn’t move, the cons are greater than the pros. What about a screen to block off the bed? There are some cool ones that you can even hang from the ceiling and look more like furniture. Examples: https://www.hgtv.com/design/decorating/design-101/make-space-with-clever-room-dividers-pictures

      I might get a new couch that’s more conducive to entertaining. With your bigger budget (all your’re saving from moving!) there are lots of options, Anthropologie has beautiful ones. This curved one can make it feel more intimate for conversations with a few people https://www.anthropologie.com/shop/grace-serpentine-three-piece-u-shaped-sectional2?CATEGORY=new-furniture&FABRIC=VE0055&LEG=MBRS&QUANTITY=1&SIZE=1126&TYPE=STANDARD

      This is also nice for conversations with a few people and can take care of an overnight guest Not a bed but big enough as a twin) https://www.anthropologie.com/shop/mirren-reversible-chaise-sectional2?category=new-furniture&type=STANDARD

      Lighting: what about one of the alarm clocks that mimics the sun rising? I’d also add more lighting throughout the space. Ikea and elsewhere, have options that are cute and bright (use sunlight bulbs!) that you can hang temporarily from the ceiling, that will save floor space and electrical upgrades.

      Hope this helps!

    4. I wouldn’t move in that scenario. The benefits don’t seem to outweigh the huge costs. I also live in the Bay Area and sympathize.

    5. Caveat that I’m from a rural area and I’ve never lived in a big city – good night, you’re living in a hotel room-sized apartment and you’re in biglaw. No you do not sound spoiled for wanting more elbow room. I mean heck my last hotel room was 350 sq ft and it was in Western Europe. Idk what luxury travel means to you, but I find it really odd to think that your hotel rooms might be larger than your actual home? Maybe cut back on the luxury in your travel if budget is a concern.

      1. Ha. DH and I lived in a 300-sq-ft apartment in NYC when we got married. We went to Turks & Caicos for our honeymoon and our “hotel” room was a 1000-sq-ft, 1-bedroom condo. You could put your arms out and spin around in a circle. There was a soaking tub. There were two couches, both long enough to lay down on. It was glorious and felt SO luxurious. (This was at Le Vele in Grace Bay, highly recommend, though individual units vary.)

    6. I’m in a similar boat – ready for more space in a HCOL while aware that BigLaw is temporary. My solution has been to stay in the smaller place while saving the difference between my annual rent and 30% of my income in my down payment fund. I know money is fungible, but this helps me satisfy the urge to move. This also keeps my housing in line with what I could afford if I moved to the gov or in house.

    7. Longer comment in long mod. Summary: For me, cons outweigh the pros. Change some stuff in your place to make it more what you’d like. Tons of screen options to separate space so bed is out of view. New curved or L shaped sofa for convo nook with minimal furniture. Sunshine bulbs to warm up the place and to make it brighter, over head lighting that doesn’t need rewiring.

    8. Have you considered maybe a longer commute. I have friends who moved to Astoria for more space but with longer commute who thought the move was worth it.

      One other thing to consider is that a lot of people in NY biglaw leave to go to another city that’s lower in cost and are then able to get more space. So what you’re going through is completely temporary in the grand scheme of things.

      Finally, biglaw is so unstable that I have a friend who was told to leave about a month before she was scheduled to move. She ended up wasting about 1.5 of the time they gave her to find a job on preparing for the move and etc. So keep that in mind.

  26. In your place, I wouldn’t move — giving up luxury travel to have a bigger couch is not a tradeoff I would make. Then again, if I didn’t have a kid, I would happily live in a small studio.

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