This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
A lot of places have plaid blazers for fall — and I do mean VERY plaid. Some of them are subtle; some are loud; some are trendy in other ways. (Also: huh.) In any event: I love this black, white and red blazer from Smythe the very best — it isn't too crazy, outdoorsy, or 70s-ish; it's a printed take on their popular Duchess blazer (minus the odd cutout at the back of the blazer), and I like the details like the leather elbow pads. The blazer is $695 at ShopBop. Smythe Plaid Duchess Blazer
Two more affordable options: here and here. Here is a plus-size alternative.
Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.
(L-all)
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
RSS Error: WP HTTP Error: cURL error 60: Issuer certificate is invalid.
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Cher Horowitz
Love this! Is there a coordinating mini-skirt?
KT
Annnnnnnd this made me laugh out loud. You win for today
Brunette Elle Woods
I was confused until I saw your name!
Anon
Ha–this was exactly what I thought when I saw it. Woot!
KT
Speaking of blazers…Does anyone have any experience with Chadwicks? I’m plus size, and suits/blazers are extremely hard to find, and they seem to carry some great plus size options. I’ve never heard of them before, and there’s no brick and mortar stores to try them on…has anyone bought anything from them before? What’s the quality like? Ease of returns?
tesyaa
I haven’t ordered from them in years, but the quality was always pretty much in line with the prices… i.e. quality wasn’t great at all. I never had a problem with returns.
KT
I’m not expecting great quality for the price…what would say its on par with? Banana Republic? BR Factory? Forever 21?!
moss
I think they’re mostly polyester/rayon so the quality would follow from that. I think you could get a season or two out of them. (I’m plus size too and sympathize.)
KT
Egghhh a season or two might be worth it. I’m at the desperate point for blazers!
tesyaa
Nowhere near BR or even Factory quality IMO. Think more like Target in terms of how much wear it will take.
tesyaa
And I will add that I happen to love Target. While I can’t put my finger on why Chadwick’s is (or was) worse, I’d choose Target any day.
Hazel
I’ve bought a couple of sundresses from Chadwicks. They’re pretty (and fit my plus-size self perfectly) but lightweight and flimsy — Target quality is probably accurate. I’ve never dared buy any work attire from them although I’ve frequently considered it.
CS
Ladies! I got engaged this weekend! I’m absolutely thrilled and felt the need to share.
Etiquette question: How to share this at work? Big email announcement isn’t really done, and my supervisor/handful of teammates already know from FB. Just share as it comes up? Trying to force “Hey I’m getting married” into a conversation seems weird.
Anonymous
Why do you need to share it with anyone other than your supervisor and teammates? I’d just go with normal conversation- if you’re chatting with someone about your weekends or generally catching up, mention it of course but I don’t think you need to really announce it.
And congratulations!!!
CS
Just wasn’t sure how to express this to other people I work with fairly regularly. :P I’ll just let it come up as it does.
Clementine
Exactly this. Also, I was rather surprised at how many people picked up on the conventional-but-not-large piece of jewelry I was newly sporting.
Anon
+1. People are magpies.
moss
Yeah, I wouldnt’ really care if my coworker got engaged. A company wide email would be beyond bizarre. Figuring out how to tell hypothetical me… why?
Becky
Yeah – that’s just weird to make an office announcement. Honestly, if I got an email or a coworker just announced “I’m engaged!” I’d find it sooo odd.
Becky
This is why we have friends and family outside of the office. This is who you announce it to. Not co-workers. Most of us will feign delight if told, but not care at all.
Gobstopper
I’d actually disagree with the other posters here, but I’ve always worked in smaller office settings where colleagues knew each other more personally. If a co-worker didn’t mention that he/she became engaged, I’d think it was odd. It’s a big life event and I’m personally happy for co-workers celebrating big life events. That being said, I’d probably recommend telling your immediate team and letting the news spread naturally from there.
lawsuited
I think the key difference here is “mentioning” that one’s engaged rather than “announcing” it. You engagement is not need-to-know information for your co-workers. You wouldn’t call up Grandma to tell her that your office is changing to a new email software, because that’s not need-to know for information for your family, but if it came up during casual conversation over Sunday lunch, that would be fine.
Tell your co-workers as it comes up naturally, even if it means having to wait a few days or weeks to share.
quizzical
Isn’t that the point of the shiny ring on your finger-to do the announcing for you? You coworkers will also probably mention it to others- I’d view an email or other coordinated announcement as gauche. Congrats!
Anonymous
You don’t share it at work. I went through an engagement and getting married without most people at work knowing. Its really not that big of a deal.
Senior Attorney
I can understand how there are workplaces where no personal conversations happen. But to say that getting engaged and married is “really not that big of a deal” seems beyond bizarre to me.
Anonymous
Literally thousands of people do it everyday. You tell your close team and your friends- you dont stop by the CEO’s office to mention it. Getting married is the big deal, so when it gets closer to that time it will come up more. But no getting engaged is really not a big deal for coworkers- especially when people now date/live together for a long time. They will be interested in the wedding but I honestly feel like making a big deal out of getting engaged has a gendered thinking around it- as if you didn’t make the decision together or something.
Anonymous
It’s a big deal for her and her fiancé. It’s a big deal for their families and friends. It’s not that big of a deal *to her coworkers* who aren’t her friends. Especially such that it requires a special announcement outside of it coming up in normal conversation (ie, how was your long weekend? great, brad and I got engaged! congrats jen!). If someone went around letting people know she got engaged (again, outside of normal conversation) or sent a team-wide email I’d think it was one of the most smug married things I’d seen yet.
moss
It’s not, though. I work at a multinational with thousands of employees all around the world. People get married, have babies, etc all the time. I don’t think it’s a big deal TO ME. I don’t really care about yet the latest baby from someone I don’t know and will probably never meet. And an engagement is even less of a deal.
Anonymous
Your work environment is already foreign to me, as I would never be sharing with supervisors on Facebook pages. I work in Medicine. One of my closet co-workers got married and most of us didn’t know he was even dating someone. It just wasn’t work appropriate conversation. While I was a little surprised, actually, it was perfectly fine and had nothing to do with our daily work. To be honest, I really like keeping my work and personal life completely separate.
You have already told multiple people at work via Facebook (and they will spread it….), are wearing a ring, and will likely drop hints during normal conversation unintentionally. Don’t make a big announcement and don’t feel like you need to tell each person.
personal stuff at work
Your work environment is already foreign to me, as I would never be sharing with supervisors on Facebook pages. I work in Medicine. One of my closet co-workers got married and most of us didn’t know he was even dating someone. It just wasn’t work appropriate conversation. While I was a little surprised, actually, it was perfectly fine and had nothing to do with our daily work. To be honest, I really like keeping my work and personal life completely separate.
You have already told multiple people at work via Facebook (and they will spread it….), are wearing a ring, and will likely drop hints during normal conversation unintentionally. Don’t make a big announcement and don’t feel like you need to tell each person.
personal stuff at work
oops… I meant “closest co-worker”….
roses
Just want to point out though that it’s not like this kind of separation is, or should be, the norm at most places. I’ve met the significant others and even kids of most of the people in my small office, so it would really be looked at as almost absurd if someone got married and didn’t bother to tell anyone. In this case, though, I think OP can easily integrate the news into everyday conversation with her co-workers; I agree that no big announcement need take place.
Senior Attorney
This reminds me of “Nurse Jackie” where nobody at the hospital even knew she was married for the whole first season…
Shayla
I disagree with the strict separation of not sharing anything at all. But agree with the first part, “Your work environment is already foreign to me, as I would never be sharing with supervisors on Facebook pages.”
Are people really friends with their supervisors on Facebook?
Senior Attorney
I’m Facebook friends with my closest staff members. At their initiation.
Shayla
Interesting. Maybe because I have yet to reach supervisor status so I’ve not had to make the decision to “friend” those I supervise, or accept their request as the case may be. As someone who is supervised…it is beyond my comprehension to “friend” my supervisors. TETO.
Little Red
I used to be FB friends with my previous supervisor until he died this past May. But FB didn’t come along till we’d been working together for eight plus years so there was a great deal of trust between us before I sent him a FB request.
TBK
I disagree with the folks who say no one cares. A co-worker of mine recently got engaged and I’d have thought it was really weird if he didn’t tell anyone. I think I found out in the course of typical “how was your weekend” chit chat — he said something like “well, [girlfriend] and I got engaged.” And we had a team meeting the next day and as part of his updates, he announced it. Similar thing happened to me, but a co-worker announced it at an all staff. But since it’s on FB and you have co-workers on FB, let them and your ring do the work.
Anonymous
Oh I definitely care! I’d be thrilled to hear the news, I just don’t think it needs to be announced other than in ordinary conversation.
Anonymous
The key here is that it was your team meeting. I def agree that you tell your close coworkers and team- it would just be beyond bizare to get an email about it, or to have an someone youve met once announce it.
Killer Kitten Heels
You got engaged over a holiday weekend (assuming US, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong here). Allow me to demonstrate the next two days of conversations for you:
Other Person: Hey CS, how was the long weekend, do anything fun?
CS: I had the best weekend, I got engaged!
Other Person: Congratulations! May I see your ring/how did your fiancé(e) propose/how did it happen/insert-other-similar-question-here?
L
+1
Senior Attorney
Yes, this. Wait for someone to ask “how are you?” or “how was your weekend?” and then bust out the awesome news.
Brant
“how was your weekend?” “i got engaged!”
to others, i’d let it evolve naturally. eg. “do you have any plans next summer?” “yeah, getting married” or “what are you up to over the holidays?” “oh, my fiance and i are going ___________” I’d just leave it at that. people will notice your ring, it will come up etc. But unless you have an atypically close office, just let it play out.
DisenchantedinDC
Wrapped several rounds of interview with multiple companies this week. Have one more tomorrow but it is the one I am least interested in (but still interested enough to take the interview).
All signs point to offers this week. I’m just sitting on my hands and a ball of nerves waiting… Also scared I won’t get any. Also scared I’ll get an offer from choice #2 before choice #1.
Anybody else anticipating big news this week?
Anon
Good luck with the job offers! We are finding out the gender of our baby this week and I am beyond excited.
Anon
Congratulations! You’re finding out the sex of your baby. Your baby will decide gender at some point after birth :)
Anon
And this is why I hate discussing anything about being pregnant with other people. Thanks for thinly veiling your judgment with a congratulations.
Anon
It’s not judgment – it is a gentle correction. I think people have been saying “gender reveal” for so long that a lot of people truly don’t understand the difference. If you do, and you still choose to say gender, then I still say congratulations.
Anon
Groan. You’re assuming she doesn’t understand the difference. Maybe she does – she was announcing happy news and your assumption and subsequent comment is out of place.
tesyaa
Sometimes people incorrectly use “gender” because they feel uncomfortable saying/typing “s3x” (misspelling to avoid moderation).
I’m old enough to remember when I was taught that “gender” is ONLY to be used for grammatical references and all other contexts should use “s3x”. Nowadays “gender” has additional usages, but some people still feel uncomfortable saying “s3x”. I’d cut them a break.
Anonymous
It’s absolutely judgement. You’re judging her for talking like a normal person.
Mpls
And really, the s3x is going to determine the gender the parents are likely to raise the child as until the child asserts otherwise. So, it’s not an inaccurate statement that needs correction.
Senior Attorney
tesyaa, one of my favorite quotes is “Nouns have gender. People, bless their hearts, have sex.” ;)
Senior Attorney
Oh, and heartiest congratulations to the OP and don’t let the nitpickers get you down!
tesyaa
Haven’t heard that one in a long time!!
Ellen
Yay! Pricey Tuesday’s! I love pricey tuesday and this blazer, but I was NEVER a fan of blazer’s that are to short b/c they highlight my tuchus, which is NOT good.
I was in the Hamton’s with Myrna and sunburned my leg’s on the beach. FOOEY! The guy we were staying with helped me put lotion on my leg’s to stop the burning, but his hand’s went way to far up where they did NOT belong, so I told him to stop b/c I could do that himself. I did NOT think it was at all romantic for him to be mooving his hand’s where they did NOT belong, especialy b/c I was burnt and would NOT apreciate that kind of attention there. FOOEY on men that think we like that stuff when we have sunburn there! DOUBEL FOOEY!
As for the OP, yes I am expecting a cleint to give us a decision on wheter we will be retained as their attorney’s in a big class action WC case. We want to defend them — their carrier disclaimed so we are strictley on the clock (yay – no in house guy’s telling us to keep the billeing’s down). If we can save them money, we get 35% of the savings, plus we get to bill at our regular rate! I should be abel to get enough hours in on this class action for the rest of the year to beat my 7200 from last year! YAY!!!! Which mean’s a big bonus for me. The only thing is I want to get MARRIED so I can have a guy to do this next year. My tuchus is still sunburnt and I should be resting, not sitting in this office where Frank keep’s stareing at my leg’s.
Where is my prince? Isn’t there any body willing to MARRY me? FOOEY!
Sydney Bristow
The job I’ve been interviewing for expects to make offers at the end of this week. Fingers crossed for both of us!
Anonymity
Good luck to all of us hunters!
DisenchantedinDC
Also, is anybody else obsessed with Graze box? It’s my current addiction.
Anonymous
I love my NatureBox. I mean, I don’t use them as snacks, I usually just binge on them, but still.
Runner 5
I know of many USians whose minds have been blown by the flapjacks in the boxes. They’re so good, I agree. I don’t get the boxes any more because I don’t snack any more (I don’t believe it either) but when I did they were great.
DisenchantedinDC
I generally try not to, but I’m lifting at 5:45 am two days a week right now, and I have to eat so early to be ready for that I find the mornings hard to get through.
And they’re so damn cute! And now I want to try the flapjack…
Pesh
Has anyone in the hive been to Anna Maria Island (Florida, near Bradenton)? Just booked a girls’ trip there for early October and would love to hear any recommendations!
Floridian
Anna Maria is a beautiful place, but there isn’t a great deal to do other than the beach/water activities. Sarasota is nearby, and it has an active arts community, great dining and shopping, and a beautiful downtown area.
Pesh
Thanks! We know it’s low key and plan on spending most of our time at the beach, but just wanted to see if there were any can’t miss local gems (watering holes, restaurants, cute shops, etc.)
SC
I grew up in the Tampa area, and my family had a condo on Anna Maria Island. (Caveat here – my parents sold the condo a couple of years ago, and I haven’t been since, so if someone has more updated information, chime in.) I love it because it’s quieter and less built-up than many of the nearby beaches. And the sunsets are absolutely amazing! The only really good restaurant on the island is Beach Bistro, but it’s super expensive and is more romantic than girls-weekend. Many of the “regular” seafood restaurants on the island (Beach House, Mar Vista, Sandbar) are all owned by the same group, get very crowded, and are pretty mediocre. For a crowd, we often went to or ordered from Oma’s Pizza. If you’re looking for some shopping and restaurants closer than Sarasota, St. Armand’s Circle has lots of both. It’s pretty touristy but can be fun. If you’re staying in a condo with a kitchen, I’d suggest planning a few group meals ahead of time and going to Publix on your way in. That way you can plan your meals around the beautiful sunsets :-)
Pesh
Thanks, SC! My friend’s Aunt is letting us use her beach house on the island, so we’ll definitely be doing some group meals. I’ve heard that Skinny’s and Eat Here are good places to check out, but hadn’t heard about the others you mentioned, so appreciate your input! Looking forward to a relaxing getaway!
SC
I’m not familiar with Skinny’s or Eat Here. They may be before my time or just on the other side of the island from where my family stayed. In any case, hope you enjoy your trip!
anon
Skinny’s is great – a little burger shack that’s always got a crowd. Eat Here is the same people as Beach Bistro, so definitely check that out. For the best grouper around there, try Star Fish for lunch someday (plan to wait a while, but you can order drinks while in line). Hurricane Hank’s is also great for grouper, and you could go at night for dinner.
Anonymous
Thanks Anon!
BR sizing change?
I have had BR 4 suits and pants and have had them taken in at the waist at times. I just ordered a 4 suit and it fits a hot mess on me out of the box. Way too tight all around. The old suit still fits (and my sloan pants). Did they mess up their sizing? They were about as perfect as I’ve found out of the box previously and I’m almost going to send the suit back (last time I played the Try on A Million Sizes at the Store game and don’t think I’ll have the patience for that again).
Brunette Elle Woods
I stopped shopping at BR about a year ago. Their quality just did not match their prices, even when on sale. Try Ann Taylor. I have loved almost everything I bought there.
TO Lawyer
+1 – I am giving up on BR. I went looking online last week when I got a 40% off email and I couldn’t even find one work appropriate dress I liked. I don’t know who they’re designing for anymore but I feel like it’s not us…
Anonymous
Agree, I never see anything I want at BR, even if I’m ignoring the quality issues, the design is not for me
Brunette Elle Woods
Yes!!! I’ve looked online under their section meant for work and it is not work appropriate! Maybe if you work in a very creative field, but certainly not for a law office.
Bonnie
I’ve given up on BR, AT and Loft. Not being able to find quality clothing has improved my spending though. ;-)
KT
BR is completely different than it used to be. They were my work clothes go-to for classic pieces…now it’s shapeless shifts or too short swing dresses.
Killing me softly, BR
Yep. Used to be my go-to. There is literally not one dress on the website right now that I would consider wearing to my law firm. Please, retailers, free us from the tyranny of the romper/shirt dress/shift dress/sack dress.
MDMom
Haven’t bought anything from there recently- not deliberately, just haven’t been shopping much in past year. But come to think of it, the past few dresses I’ve ordered have been disappointing in quality (fit has been consistent though- at least 1 yr ago). I have several suits from there that I love and wear weekly, but they are all 3-6 years old. Their petite lightweight wool suits used to fit me perfectly off the rack and look very modern and polished for the price (whereas the AT suits were often boxy and too short for heels). But I just looked and don’t even see the petite sloan fit pants (my go to) avail anymore.
PolyD
Sloans were my go-to pants for the past 3-4 years. Now, they don’t really fit. Of course, I’ve gained a little weight, so that’s part of it, but I wonder if they have changed their fit model. Same for Loft, their Julie cut used to fit me perfectly and now my usual size is actually a little too BIG and the rise is too high, so I don’t know what’s going on there.
I tried some pants at AT and the Kates and Anns fit me pretty well (tailored ankle pants versions). For comparison, I was a 4 regular in Sloans and a 2 regular in Julies, and at AT, I am a 2 in the Kates and a 4 in the Anns.
I’m still waiting for a sale, though, before I shell out on the AT pants.
Kate
Hard pass on this look. Unless it’s worn with a matching kilt, like Cher said! Knee socks obligatory . . .
Anon
In the middle of an extremely big fight with my husband. I had been frustrated for awhile about the fact that, on the weekends, I seem to do almost all the childcare (especially getting up with them when they wake up at 6:00ish and putting them to bed in the evening) and there seems to be an expectation that I’m the one on kid duty — e.g., he’ll disappear down in the basement for hours, just leaving the kids on my hands, or he’ll announce that he’s going out to run some errand but never think to take the kids. When I’ve said there’s an errand I need to run and it’s one where having the kids along would be impractical (they’re both under 3), he’ll ask if I can go at nap time. Or if I say I have work to get done, can he watch the kids for a couple of hours while I work, he’ll also ask if that can be done at nap time — which is like, no, because if they’re napping I don’t need anyone watching them. Plus I do all the meal planning and cooking, and do the laundry. He even admitted that I was doing more of the work on the weeekends and when I suggested we sit down and divide it up, he agreed. This was not the first time I asked to divide up housework, but in the past, whenever we were sitting down to do it, he’d have a problem with how I approached it. I didn’t pick a good time. By writing out a list of things that needed to get done, I’d just acted like a taskmaster. I was demanding he do work to adhere to my standards, which are higher than his. Even though I had asked him if the time was good, we had agreed beforehand that we’d each write out what we thought needed to get done, I had explicitly said that we should discuss what we each thought really needed to be done and we could agree on a standard that we both were okay with. Somehow every single time I wanted to talk about this, there was something I did wrong in approaching it and therefore we focused on that instead of on dividing up the work. I just became resentful and wound up getting more and more angry each weekend as the weekend went by, until I was furious by Sunday night. Finally this weekend we sat down and divided work up. He agreed that the list we had was really stuff that needed to get done (like feeding the kids dinner) and he was okay with how we divided it up. But then he became furious with me for how I’d become so bitchy all the weekends before, and blamed me for not bringing up the issues earlier. He accused me of being passive aggressive and of not caring about how I was poisoning everything about our marriage, our parenting, everything about the household. I agree that I probably should have been more direct in saying “we need to sit down NOW and talk about dividing things up” rather than banging around the house being angry. But it’s not like it was a mystery why I was angry. And it’s not like he disagreed about how much work I was doing. Or how we should resolve it. He claims I enjoy being a martyr and holding it over him, or else I wouldn’t have said “we need to sit down and talk about this” I would have said “let’s sit down at this time on this day” and talk about it. I didn’t do that because in the past when I’d done things like that he’d gotten angry that I was trying to tell him what to do. And since we’d agreed we should have this sit down, there was nothing preventing HIM from setting a time. I was willing to let bygones be bygones now we’ve divided up the work, but he went off on multiple tirades at me yesterday, telling me I was “terrible” and our marriage was a pattern of him putting up with my “bullshit.” He purposefully said all this loud enough that the au pair could hear this in her room, which was humiliating. This fight started around 1:00 yesterday (when the kids were napping) and this morning he would barely talk to me. I’m honestly having a hard time seeing why he’s angry at all. He says it’s not fair that I can now be happy we divided up the work, that I got what I wanted and now everything’s great but there’s no punishment for the terrible way I acted these last few weekends. While I was not in a good mood these last several weekends, I never yelled, called names, made accusations. I was short tempered and reserved. While that wasn’t pleasant, I’m sure, I apologized for it at the time and my husband said “well, you came by it honestly” meaning he agreed that things weren’t divided up. I really cannot understand why he’s angry *now.* And I don’t know what to do next. I’m tempted to write an email, trying to be very even-tempered and explain what I’ve explained here, but I feel like it’s just going to make things worse. An ongoing feature of our relationship is that I feel like I can’t bring up problems without being punished for it. I do admit that I have no good role models when it comes to relationships (divorce is rampant in my family) and that I might be more sensitive to conflict than is healthy — so when I get a slightly not so positive response, I tend to back waaaaay off and never mention it again. But this is all making me think that, yes, I do get punished for having any complaints. I suggested counseling yesterday and he said he didn’t think it would work because there’s no reason I would listen more to a therapist than to him.
Anonymous
Call a divorce lawyer. You married an arrogant jerk who is only happy if you sacrifice all of you to please him. He won’t listen to you (and no an email won’t help) and he refuses counseling. Get a divorce. The kids will get more time with him once he has custody part time and you’re not there to be his maid. Get counseling for yourself to figure out how you got here.
emeralds
It sounds like both of you made some mistakes in handling this initially……but yeah. Get counseling for yourself and tell him he either goes to another counselor with you, or you start evaluating the future of your marriage. He had an equal role in bringing the kids into the world, he gets an equal role in parenting them now. It’s also majorly uncool that he would do stuff like making sure the au pair knows you’re arguing.
Also, this sounds really hard and I am so sorry that you’re going through this.
Counseling, divorce, etc...
Wow, can’t believe the people suggesting divorce over this. You have small kids; parenting is new to both of you and you need to learn how to do it as a team. (Just wait until your eldest drops the naps). I agree counseling might be in order because it sounds like you guys aren’t doing a great job communicating here, and that is a HUGE problem. But some other thoughts I’m not seeing elsewhere.
– Decide how you want this to end. Do you want to stay married? Do you want him to take X number of hours? Focus on the end goal, and put on your big girl panties to stop banging things around until you get there.
– Seriously ask yourself if things would be easier if he weren’t in the picture on a daily basis, or if you had to share custody with him. Sometimes the answer is yes, and I get that. But most of the time the answer is no — even if you’re not communicating with him well having another body in the house is helpful if you need to run errands outside the house during naptime, need to work late at the last minute, etc.
– If things continue as they are after counseling, give two more things a try: a: just do what you want to do. “Honey, I have a haircut at 10, I’ll see you and the kids later.” Give him warning that you’re doing it (shared calendar or whatever), make sure there are no objections or conflicts, but: just do it. He’ll figure it out.
– Sign kids up for weekend activities (tumbling, music). Ask husband to be default parent who takes them; suggest it’s fun daddy time. This gives you some time to yourself, kid-free, without asking him to do too much thinking about what/how to do things with the littles.
OP
Yeah, pretty much guaranteed we’re not getting a divorce over this. Aside from the fact that it is easier having him around, and I think it’s best for the kids to have their dad in the house, we really love each other and think ultimately we’re really good together and really happy together. I also just think it’s rarely good advice to say “get a divorce” after hearing one person’s complaints. There are things that cross the line, but in general, you need both sides of the story. I tried to be balanced, but I would never say that you heard the whole story if you only heard from me.
Anonymous
He’s punishing you for not giving him enough s$x by refusing to take care of your children.
I stand by my advice.
Whoa
Anonymous at 3:11, you sound kind of insane.
Anono
Hi.I just wanted to say that your arguments sounded pretty familiar to me, and it sucks, and I’m sorry. My husband and I are bad at conflict, and I know how draining and upsetting it can be when conflict devolves into shouting / namecalling. Have a hug from an anonymous internet stranger. And try again about counseling. We go, and it’s helpful. The idea isn’t listening to the therapist; it’s getting some help for the two of you to communicate fairly with each other. And you can always go yourself to help learn how to communicate more effectively and also to deal with the hostility and criticism you get from your husband.
mascot
Ok, so there’s a lot going on here. Sounds like you both need to work on communication and not letting it all buildup to big fights. There may be hurt feelings after spats, but you shouldn’t be looking to punish each other.
My main question is- if he is ok walking out the door to an errand without the kids, why don’t you do the same? Or, give each other some dedicated time to pursue individual activities- puttering in the basement, going to the gym, whatever.
Bewitched
Counseling. Stat. Each of you is “locked” into your own perspectives about who is wrong and who is right. You need a counselor to help sort things out and help you both move past your hurt feelings and resentment. Ask me how I know this….
Senior Attorney
Tell him “counseling may not work but we are in an emergency situation here so let’s give it a try.” You two are on a very bad road and if you don’t take major action immediately this is not going to end well. As Anono at 11:43 says, it’s not about the therapist telling you what to do, it’s about learning to communicate in healthy ways.
I totally get that you have super legitimate grievances, but you have behaved very badly with the passive-aggressive stuff. Counseling will help you learn how to use your words and not be so afraid of conflict. Or it’s possible that you did marry an arrogant jerk and you just need to get out. But if that’s the case then counseling will make that clear, too.
Big hugs to you! This stuff is hard.
Anon 123
This sounds familiar to me, but from the other side. My situation is different, without the name-calling or public shaming and with me doing a lot of work, but it not being enough and with my husband getting grumpy. In my situation, I’m doing a ton at home, but what I do doesn’t seem to count.
No advice, but thank you for the perspective from the other side.
Brant
I don’t know if this will help in your specific situation–and I agree that counseling sounds like a really solid idea– but my husband and I have the same issues (without the escalation). What works is when I say, “XYZ has to happen today; can you do X, I’ll do Y with the kids, and we can both tackle Z during naptime?” “Ok, but i want to watch the Might Ducks game at 3.” “Can you do that in the playroom with Timmy so I can run ABC errand? I’ll bring back nachos….”
Men–at least my husband– doesn’t pick up on subtlty, and our levels messy house acceptance are very different. I need to be a lot more upfront–probably what some woudl consider bossy or rude– with DH in order for him to understand what I want.
In your case,”can you do [errand] during naptime?” should be answered (for my husband) with “Nope, bringing Timmy along will make it take 57x longer. I’ll do my best to be quick, though.”
Marise
I may get tomatoes thrown at me for saying this, but regardless of how insensitive he has been about childcare, and no matter how justified you are at getting irritated at him, my advice would be to apologize for acting frustrated, irritated, etc. And to do this without linking it, i.e., “I am sorry I was a bit** but you weren’t doing x, y and z.” Instead, just “I’m truly sorry about the way I communicated my feelings. Can we get back on track? I love you.”
Alli
No tomatoes here– I totally agree with this. Even though it might have been totally justified for me to act like a B, I still probably shouldn’t have, and I will HAPPILY say I’m sorry if that will get us to the next step. I think it’s a very mature approach.
Esquared
I’m down with this approach too– actually it’s my husband that uses it a lot and it is incredibly effective. Also effective is when he says- I’m sorry, I love you, we are a team & we are in this together– let’s figure something out.
Anon
I feel like this is such a common problem for couples. Almost every wife/mother I speak with has said something along the lines of “My husband is great. He’s wonderful, but he sucks!!!” As in, they don’t get things done. They don’t get things done unless specifically asked and told exactly what to do and at what time. I’m not saying to completely accept his behavior because I’m sure it is incredibly frustrating, but I don’t think it should necessarily be time to call a divorce attorney. Definitely try counseling and if he protests, explain to him why you think it is so important and necessary. Try counseling and honestly, if he isn’t doing things to your liking, try to talk to him calmly, which is where the therapy comes in. Fights can just escalate when you’re both angry and refuse to see each other’s perspective. Maybe he’s insecure about being left alone with the kids so long, maybe he’s nervous about it. Who knows! I’m not trying to make excuses for him, but I think there is a better way to handle it and I’ve just heard this complaint from women so many times! It’s so common!
Dukes Up
The most disturbing this about this is your comment at the end where he says you won’t listen to a therapist just like you won’t listen to him. Before I got to that comment, I thought this sounded like a pretty normal (albeit very draining, disturbing, and otherwise crappy) fight. Generally, when I let anger around a topic like this build up, I will act as you did (banging around, being generally unpleasant) until it bubbles over and I say “We need to talk about this now.” Husband’s response is always, always to criticize the way I brought it up. He’ll usually concede the point itself (you’re right, I haven’t done any housework in three months/I shouldn’t keep saying mean things about your friend that you love/I keep “forgetting” to unload the dishwasher even though it’s my task), but he’ll be so caught up in how I approached it that now the fight is about me getting mad instead of him sucking.
Honestly, we haven’t addressed that yet– those arguments have all subsided naturally and been resolved, and they have been typical marriage spats. But I’ve seen the pattern enough to know that next time, 1) I will try not to get to the bubble-up stage where I get mad and say we have to talk NOW, and 2) if I do get to that stage, I will calmly explain to him that he doesn’t get to move the cheese. The issue is (insert issue), and he does not get to make the issue my behavior. That’s an excuse that he uses to detract from his own behavior. I believe your husband is doing the same thing. I’m sorry; I know it’s not fun.
APC
I agree that this mostly sounded like a normal (agreed with Dukes Up, draining, disturbing and crappy) fight but the two red flags to me were: (1) the same Dukes Up mentioned – that you won’t listen to a therapist like you won’t listen to him, and (2) that you deserve ‘punishment’. Um WHAT? To the first point, why does he get to make the final calls on everything? Why do you have to listen to him? That is extraordinarily patriarchal. I wouldn’t be okay with that perspective. If you are, then so be it, but think about that as his worldview. On the second point – NO, no no no, times a million no, you do not deserve to be PUNISHED for the way you acted. You are an adult. Maybe you were passive aggressive, we’ve all been there, but if he thinks that you need or deserve some sort of punishment, then you are not a team, you are not in this together, and you do need to think about your future with this man. He’s not willing to work with you and will forever think of himself as ‘above you’, with all decision making authority, etc. This goes back to his world perspective again. You need to ask yourself – Can you live with it? Some people can – some people want a man to play that role. I couldn’t do it. My impression is most of the women on this site couldn’t do it. So please be honest with yourself – can you?
Sorry for all the Ellen caps. But really.
MDMom
I know this has been suggested frequently on here, but have you read the 5 Love Languages book? my husband and I read it a few years ago after a fight where he was clearly in the wrong and willing to do almost anything to make it up to me (he’s not a big reader and probably wouldn’t have agreed to read it otherwise). I think it has been really helpful in understanding how we both think and approach things. Even if you are the only one who read it (seems like he might not be willing), it might help. After all you can only change how you approach things.
That said, my husband and I have had similar issues but our kid is only 3 months old so we’re still working it out. I think right now a lot of it falls to me because I’ve been on maternity leave and am nursing so he feels (not entirely incorrectly) that I am “better at” taking care of the baby than he is. Another factor is that he legitimately works a lot more than I do normally, so its fair that a disproportionate amount of domestic duties fall to me, its just a question of working out how much. That is a tricky place to be. I have been lately setting up errands on weekends and just telling him “hey I’m going to X from this time to this time and I need you to stay with the baby”- key is telling nicely, but not asking. I also make it a point to praise things he does well with the baby and thank him for stuff he does around the house.
My husband in particular reacts much much better to positive reinforcement than to negative. Relatedly, when I do have to bring up issues, I wait til I’m not actively angry about it and try to frame it in a way that’s more about how I feel than about him being an inconsiderate a**hole. I also try to keep it lighthearted, so for instance we assume household roles like he is chief technology officer and chief customer service officer (as in calling customer service which I loathe) and I am chief meal planner and chief laundry officer. Last night we were arguing about who was or wasn’t chief dishwasher officer.
Anyway, again the 5 love languages book can help you clearly see what your spouse likes and doesn’t (I could guess my husband’s even before he read the book and told me). Now when I feel things getting off, I try to punch up my efforts in the areas he appreciates (words of affection, physical touch) and it almost always rights things again and gets me more of what I appreciate (acts of service). It sounds cheesy, but it’s simple and it works for us.
Anonymous
Or, this dude doesn’t have a love language.
OP
We did read that and his is whatever you call “spending time together” and mine is the doing chores around the house for the other person.
MDMom
Do you notice a positive effect/change when you spend quality time together? Has it been a while since you’ve done that? If so, thats something to try. If not, I don’t know what else to suggest. Good luck. Its pretty clear from the responses that this is a common fight, though the severity of it is maybe not.
Anonymous
I love that you and your hubs are CEO’s over specific realms of the house. That made me crack-up so hard. This is something I want in my life now. I feel that it makes the discussion more fun and makes you face issues about that topics in a business-like manner. Because it is approached from a business-like naming convention I feel like I would act more business-like towards that topic rather than come at it from emotions.
moss
I’m so sorry he’s succeeded in getting you to question every aspect of how you approach life. You’re not doing this wrong. You’re doing the best you can. He keeps moving the goalposts so he doesn’t have to admit he’s losing the game. He distracts you with the HOW so he doesn’t have to do anything about the WHAT.
You’re not a failure, you’re not a bad wife, you’re not doing wifeing wrong, you’re not doing parenting wrong. He’s trying to push the problem onto you when the problem is with him. He should NOT be disappearing for hours on the weekend. This is a problem and you’ve told him it’s a problem and he’s using all these other tactics to try to get you to look at yourself instead of him.
Counselling etc. When all else fails, raise your standards. Is this how you would want your daughter, your best friend, your mom to be treated by their life partner? If not, then don’t let it happen to you either.
Marilla
Yup.
Lobbyist
We have had such a similar dynamic in my relationship. It took years of counseling with a good therapist to get me to see that a lot of it was on me, because my inclination was just to be mad at him for being a slacker. But the therapist helped me realize that it takes two in a relationship like that: one to over function and one to under function. And by over functioning, I was allowing him to under function. So I had to stop over functioning to allow him to stop under functioning. And it was hard! And every time I still get mad/ resentful I realize now that it’s because I’m not taking care of myself so I need to go to the gym, or get a pedicure, or hang with friends, or just get out of there, and get enough sleep, because then I can be calm and not bitchy and ask for what I need. And he learned that he has to respond when I ask, because it’s hard for me to ask. And sometimes I need to ask more than once, but its all better. Good luck.
lawsuited
I have no idea why your husband wants to “punish” you and don’t have any advise about how to resolve this particular fight, but I think it’s interesting that you say you don’t have much experience with or many role models for positive relationships. I recommend that you get individual counselling to help with that (it doesn’t have to be forever, just a few sessions could give you a lot of insight) as soon as possible. Even if your husband is resistant to couples counselling, you can still continue to learn and grow and understand yourself/your decisions/your relationships better. If your husband ever comes round to the idea of couples counselling, you’ll benefit from having done individual counselling before.
sdf
Me too. I started by not taking out the trash, even when there was a small pile of trash next to the trash bin. It worked!
sdf
Supposed to be a reply to Lobbyist. Sorry!
AIMS
This sounds complicated and I have no answers, but it seems obvious that you’re talking past each other and need to find better ways of communicating. He may be a jerk or wrong or whatever, but it also takes two to get to this place. And since you’ve already gotten a lot of “he sucks” comments, I’ll just add this for perspective: what you call “short tempered and reserved” would be, for me, the worst. I’d much rather have a big old scream and yell fight than have my partner walk around sulking for several weekends (and presumably the weeks in between). Different people view this differently, but you have to accept that just as you may view your behavior as “better” than name-calling/shouting, for some people it may actually be worse. Also, yes, he “should” know why you’re angry but if you’ve gotten to the point where you’re doing so much of the child care for so long, the extent of the problem may not be evident to him. Not blaming you, but just pointing out that “I shouldn’t have to tell you why I am upset” is never a productive way to resolve problems. Also, you say that he purposefully yelled loud enough for your au pair to hear — maybe he did knowing it would upset you, in which case, he’s a jerk, fine. But maybe you are also imagining this or projecting or whatever else, but maybe he was just angry and yelled and there is no reason to impute sinister motives to him like wanting to “humiliate” you in front of your nanny… Just something that stuck out to me that you may want to explore.
Anyway, you’re in a tough place but I think your goal should be to figure out how you got here and how to move forward productively. Individual counseling would probably help. I’d keep try to talk to him about it, too. I agree that a good place to start might be something like, “listen, I don’t know how things got this out of hand, but can we start on a clean page and figure out how we’re going to make this better?”
SC
I agree that I find “being short-tempered and being reserved” to be worse behavior than yelling, name-calling, etc. When my husband is expressing anger by sulking, barely speaking to me, or being impatient about unrelated things, I call him on it and force direct confrontation. I’ve also learned to fight fairly and avoid things that from your comment, your husband appears to be doing – name-calling, escalating, and generalizing. What jumps out most to me is that he seems to be escalating and generalizing. If he’s saying things like “you don’t care,” you’re “poisoning” your marriage and “everything about the household,” and your marriage is “a pattern of him putting up with your bs,” he’s either communicating very poorly, or he’s communicating that he wants out of your marriage. IMO, your husband is expressing anger in an unacceptable way, but you may be too. More than anything, that deserves some couple’s therapy (or a divorce).
One tip on your original issue (which is a small and apparently quite common one): It helps us if I try to manage my husband’s expectations about weekends. He really expects time not at work to be time “off,” unless I specifically tell him what we need to do ahead of time. He’s perfectly fine if I say, “I need you to do X for Y amount of time this weekend.” Otherwise, he’ll plan to relax and then will be sulky or disappointed if I ask him to do something. Maybe I shouldn’t have to remind a 32-year-old man with a baby that he’s going to be an adult during the weekends too. But he really appreciates it when I tell him what I need ahead of time, when I let him commit to a time to do it, and when I join him in some down time when we’re done. Obviously, it’s not always possible, but he understands that and is actually more flexible and agreeable when stuff comes up because he knows I try to let him know what’s coming up in advance.
One last piece of advice – he said that you were acting like a taskmaster and demanding things be done to your (higher) standards. When you guys talk about what needs to be done around the house, keep the conversation open and compromise. Even when I have a strong opinion about a problem and its solution, I’ll show my husband the data, ask if he thinks it’s a problem, and then discuss why I think it is. If he agrees that a problem exists, I’ll ask him for suggestions about what to do about it. This approach (a) makes him feel like I’m not bossing him around, (b) sometimes convinces me that I can compromise or let something go or that there’s a better solution, and (c) gives him ownership and responsibility over agreed-on solutions so we act more like a team. For example, two weekends ago, I showed him our income and expenses. “Yep, that’s a problem.” “What do you want to do about it?” “We’re spending a lot of money on lunch. I guess we should pack our lunches.” “Great idea. What do you want to make?” The next day, he watched the baby while I went to the grocery store. And the next night, as we stayed up late making a week’s worth of lunches, he started complaining that I was making him do it, and I said, “It was your idea!” He said, “Crap, you’re right,” and kept helping (mostly) cheerfully. It’s so much better than our previous communication of, “We’re spending too much money. We need to make lunch.” “Ok, I agree.” “I need you to do X, Y, and Z.” “That sounds like a lot of work.” Followed by me doing it myself and feeling like a martyr or him helping and feeling bossed around.
anonymama
Yeah, my family has always tended towards the passive-aggressive, while my husband’s family’s favorite saying is “if you’re not fighting, someone’s being a mouse.” Meaning, if you never have any arguments it means one person is getting steamrolled, and that it’s better to have it out than to have one person silently steaming while the other person blithely continues on their way. Which was hard for me to get used to, as I am naturally conflict-averse. But I have found it is so much better if I just say what I need, instead of holding it in. And try to really get into the issue of what it is that you need and why, not saying “I need you to do this and this and this,” but, “I get overwhelmed when I am on duty from wakeup to bedtime, I need one morning when I get to have a couple hours of me time while you handle the kids.” Or “I am overwhelmed with how much there is to do with these kids, and I need to feel like you are in the trenches with me as a partner, and not like your mom telling you what to do.” And maybe part of it is that you ask him to do something, he rolls his eyes or gives you a hard time, and then you back off and don’t ask him again, and presto the issue disappears (for him). So try holding firm, and hopefully he will get used to it and it will become just what you do, instead of this big deal of you making poor him do something. (tell him ahead of time, you have the kids from 6am-9am on Saturday, and then stick to it). It is in some ways treating him like a child, but it is also in part recognizing that to him moaning and groaning about doing something doesn’t mean that he’s not going to do it, or doesn’t see that it needs to be done, or will resent me later for making him do it, it’s just him letting all the unfiltered feelings out that he has in that very minute, whereas I would only complain about something if I really really didn’t want to do it. I think individual therapy might help you, even if he doesn’t want to go, with improving your communication and understanding his communication style.
meme
I really, really, really recommend John Gottman’s book 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work. It sounds like your main problem is how to work through disagreements and conflicts (v. the conflict itself being the main problem). You’ll find you could probably both improve your conflict management skills. We used to have some difficult fights where my chief complaint was how such a pedestrian disagreement could go so far off the rails and turn into a really hurtful conflict when it really didn’t need to. The book talks about strategies for keeping contempt and resentment and defensiveness out of conflict discussions and how to approach your spouse to talk about a problem in the most productive/least fight escalating ways. I asked my husband to read it with me after a particularly nasty argument over nothing/no one remembers now what. I read it; he listened to the audio book, and I cannot emphasize enough how much the lessons we learned have helped us with our conflict management.
OP
Thanks everyone for your responses. Sometimes there’s no one to talk to about these things. Friends just tend to be 100% on your “side”, not realizing that being on your side isn’t always the best thing for you. Sometimes you need a kick in the butt to see where you were wrong. We did exchange some emails today. Apparently a lot of this boils down to s3x. What he really really needs is regular all-in s3x sessions (not just grabbing a quickie in the 10 min before the kids wake up in the morning). This has happened before where we have some kind of blow up fight and he gets really worked up about something, I can’t figure out why he’s so worked up about it, and after a long while, it comes out that we haven’t been having enough s3x or enough of the right kind of s3x and that makes him feel lonely, unattractive, and hurt. Of course, if I feel like the family maid and feel overworked and exhausted, the last thing I want to do is put extra effort into s3x. Which makes him feel like I just see s3x as a chore. And, honestly, sometimes it is. And I try to prioritize it, but if it’s that or getting to bed on time because the baby is sick and will almost certainly be up half the night, I will probably choose bed. And he feels sad that I’m going to bed so early, and I feel like he doesn’t care about my well-being. I also realize that this housework/kid-care/s3x/communication thing is just so typical. Especially with little kids and demanding careers and less money for outside help than we’d like. Which is also typical for people in their 30s.
L
Look, I get it. I’m your husband in the “I feel lonely, unattractive, hurt” scenario, but he NEEDS to say it and you need to be willing to hear it. Throwing an extended temper tantrum is not an adult response. I’m saying this because it is still a communication issue, not a s3x issue.
lawsuited
I suppose the upside is that you were able to continue the conversation via email and get to the real problem. Perhaps there’s an opportunity to point out that you’ll hopefully have more physical and mental energy for s3x now that housekeeping and childcare tasks are divided? S3x is so important to a relationship that it’s worth spending time on, but it’s reasonable for you to ask your husband for help in finding/creating that time.
Lobbyist
Again, so similar! I also explained and he finally figured out that helping me around the house and doing what I wanted him to do to help me was basically foreplay for me, that if I was too tired from doing all the housework he wasn’t going to get what he wanted. Then I had to thank him in the manner he wanted for helping me and both of us were much happier with everything.
Coach Laura
OP – show your husband this article -“Sharing child care responsibilities may lead to a better s3x life ” study results just published this week. Don’t know why they need a study to prove it, but cause/effect is shown.
I’ll post the link in a follow up reply.
Coach Laura
Looks like I’m in moderation. Washington Post article entitled “One key to a happier s3x life: Share child care duties equally, new research finds” dated August 23, 2015.
Anon for this
This might be communication problems.
Be aware, however, that emotional/mental abuse are sometimes mistaken for communication problems.
Even by therapists.
AN
He sounds like a first class jerk. Also it sounds like he may soon surprise you with a divorce. Make sure you’re protected. And either talk to him or go to counselling.
MDMom
I just cleaned out my wardrobe and am in need of a few items in the “fancy underthings” department. I’m looking for recommendations re brands. I know hose have been discussed ad nauseum but for some reason the most recent discussion of brand that showed up on a search was from 2008, other posts just discussed when they were/weren’t necessary or appropriate. Comfort and durability are priorities. Here’s what I need:
– black pantyhose (not tights)
– footless pantyhose/tights- ie leggings but thin enough to wear under suit pants. I have some fleece lined ones already but need to replenish my selection of thinner/sheer leggings.
– a white camisole with a little bit of tummy shaping but not too much, preferably lace top.
any suggestions?
Clementine
I’m pretty strongly on team no black pantyhose*, but I do appreciate a good pair of nude hose. I’ve found that in general, I can get 2-3 wears out of Hanes Silky Sheer and they’re quite comfortable. Also, they come in tall sizes which was a life-changing realization for me. I buy them for $5 or less a pair at TJ Maxx/Marshalls.
*(I find that black pantyhose really just emphasize the parts of my legs I’d really rather not have emphasized, whereas black tights give me a consistent, opaque look.)
For tights- footless and non- I like Hue tights which I also get at TJMaxx/Marshalls for pretty cheap or Target Merona brand tights.
tesyaa
+1 to Hanes or Leggs (i.e. drugstore brands). Sheer Reflections or Sheer Energy are the best for black pantyhose.
tesyaa
*Silky Sheer, not Sheer Reflections
DMD
Oh, is that what they’re called? I knew they had the word “sheer” in them. (Unusual for a hosiery line, I know. ;) )
tesyaa
You can also get footless Hanes tights in the drugstore, and they’re fine.
DMD
I scoop up all the Donna Karan or Givenchy in my size when I see them at TJ Maxx or Marshall’s. Sometimes I find these at Burlington Coat Factory, as well. I would skip the ones marked as “irregular,” though.
I have a pair or two of Hanes Sheer Reflections as backup. Not thrilled with them, as they always seem to snag within a wear or two.
New Anon
A belated thank you to everyone who suggested affordable Bay Area hair stylists a couple of months ago, and especially to MJ. Deborah Reid Graves gave me an excellent cut on Saturday and I’m very happy: she really listened to me when I talked about what I wanted and how I take care of my hair, and the cut is great. Thank you!
MJ
Amazing! I love Deborah and I am so glad you now love her too! I seriously schedule my return visits to the Bay Area to make sure I see her!
Esquared
Ohhh, what kind of hair do you have? My person is good, but not consistently good (& she’s also hard to book without 2 weeks notice, which I’m horrible at planning) & I wouldn’t mind finding someone new. I have super curly/frizzy hair that I usually do absolutely nothing with– so someone that can do a blowout without a straightening iron is key for me.
Corporate Mentoring Program- ideas?
I got nominated/put into our company’s executive mentoring program, the goal of which is to pair “up and coming” (director/VP) leadership with the “grey hair” of our organization– folks at the executive level that have been around the block and can help the next generation of execs as they find their legs etc.
So, in theory, it’s an honor. In practice, it’s a painful 30 minute phone call every few weeks between me and someone in my org that is a Professional Mentor–she’s been doing this program FOREVER and I have no idea what her actual job is because it’s all lunches and meetings with protegees.
In any case, i’ve done my best to tee up things that i can run by her, ask her advice on etc, but im’ in the home stretch of this program and out of ideas. We are part of a HUGE company, and we don’t actually work together (and won’t in the forseeable future). She’s in sales, but over a totally different business unit than the department i run supports. I’ve come with “in your experience…..” and “i’ve got xyz issues with my team, here’s what i’ve done, what advice would you give me if you were in my shoes…” and even more generic women-in-business type questions.
Ideas? I have to kill 30 minutes in a few hours and want to try to get something out of it. Not law, if it matters.
Wildkitten
If she’s done this forever does she have suggestions of other mentees who have gone on to be successful that she can pair you up with? Can you talk to her about what other protegees have done rather than what she has done? Can you ask other protegees what they found useful to do in the sessions?
Anon0321
Could you make some of them lunches, coffees, or quick walks that are more personal? I like to mix my requests for mentoring in with more casual situations– I feel like it helps me to get to know the person better and then professional talks are less awkward. Also, I hate talking on the phone. I’m the worst at it. So this helps keep me less awkward.
Judy Jetson
Kat, autoplay ad for pampers
anon and on
Has anyone been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD as an adult?
Meg Murry
I was. It was a pain to get the diagnosis – I had to take a ton of tests, it took something like 5 or 6 separate appointments just for the testing, and that was after 6 months of counseling to talk it over and make sure it wasn’t something else. It was crazy annoying, because looking back if I was in school today I’m pretty sure I would have been tested by 1st or 2nd grade.
Despite the PITA-ness of it, it was worth it, because the meds really do help me. Or at least, the med help me stick to the routines and coping mechanisms I’ve put in place (crap ton of alarm setting and list writing, everything important like keys have a home and that is where they go, limiting wardrobe to items that 90% of mix and match with each other).
My major piece of advice, if you do get tested, is keep copies of your diagnostic paperwork somewhere super safe – preferably multiple places. I was diagnosed almost 10 years ago, and have been on and off meds since then. However, I want to go back on, and the latest doctor I am going to doesn’t want to just prescribe meds without proof that I actually have been diagnosed – I can’t entirely blame them, some of the meds are Schedule 2 drugs. But I don’t have that paperwork from 10 years ago, I’ve changed doctors multiple times when my insurance has changed, and now I might have to be re-tested unless I can find some proof somewhere that I was actually tested. Hopefully it won’t come down to that, but as someone who wants to go back on meds because I can’t find my f***ing keys, wallet and phone reliably on a day-to-day basis, of course I can’t be expected to come up with medical records from 10 years ago, are you kidding me??
Meg Murry
Oh, and I meant to add (damn you ADHD tangent rambling) – whether or not you have a diagnosable case of ADHD, I’d suggest getting some books out of the library on ADHD in adults and see if any of the suggestions in them are something you can implement to improve your life for the better. I think “Driven to Distraction” and “Delivered from Distraction” are 2 of the main ones, but there are others as well. You may find that books aimed at women with ADHD will help – or maybe not. In my case, some of the advice did, since I have the inattentive type more common in women, but a lot did not, because I work in a male dominated field and have always done better in the fields that are more typically considered male strengths (math, science, logic and reasoning) than ones that women stereotypically are better at (writing, communication, being compassionate and understanding others feelings, etc).
Blonde Lawyer
I was and it was a lot easier than Meg Murray’s experience. No serious testing. I filled out a survey or two, did one or two in person meetings with behavioral health. They did a couple of other medical tests (blood work, sleep study) to rule out a few other things and then they started me on the meds. Turned out I did have sleep apnea but treating that didn’t cure the ADHD.
Jobless in CA
Hi, I really would appreciate advice on a sticky situation: I’m a May 2015 grad who signed up for the bar exam in State X (to be closer to SO). Unfortunately, I had to miss the bar exam due to illness. State X has a small legal market and I haven’t been able to find work here so I’m relocating to California continue searching. I will take the CA bar in Feb. 2016 but until then I will not be barred in any state. I know that I’m in a really undesirable situation so I have some burning questions:
-Am I shut out of a paid legal position until I pass the CA bar?
-How do I explain why I didn’t take the bar in July? (this has already come up during an interview – I told them what I had (luckily it wasn’t anything embarrassing or private) and was later rejected for the job)
-Can I lie and tell employers that I was originally signed up for the CA bar (instead of the State X bar)? Would they have any way of verifying this?
(I don’t want to dig myself into a hole but I’m desperate for a job and don’t want to turn CA employers off)
Thanks!
AIMS
You are probably eligible for at least some legal jobs as many require bar admission within X number of months of employment. In NY, for example, it’s often 18 months for some entry level government agency jobs, so you’d be well within that time frame. I’d look into those kinds of positions, as it’s much easier to employ someone not barred as a law clerk in state court vs. as a lawyer in a firm when they can’t go to court, sign subpoenas, sign briefs, etc. That said, obviously, you’re going to be competing with people who are already admitted and that gives them a competitive advantage over you. Under no circumstances would I lie about having sat for the CA bar. Not just because lies have a tendency to come out, but also because it just suggests you failed the exam. I think it’s fine to say, “I was originally supposed to take the bar in State X, but was unable to sit for the exam because of an illness. I am now better, have recently relocated to CA and am preparing to take the CA bar exam in February of 2016.” Good luck.
Jobless in CA
Thanks for the reply. Just wanted to make clear that I wasn’t asking about lying and saying that I had sat for the CA bar. I am asking about saying I signed up for the July 2015 CA bar, missed it due to illness and plan to take the CA bar for the first time in Feb. Sorry if my initial post was confusing.
AIMS
I understood. I still think it’s a bad idea.
Blonde Lawyer
Could you just leave out the state? “I was supposed to sit for the summer 2015 bar but had to miss it due to a medical issue now resolved.”
cbackson
You’re in a tough spot. I think you’re going to face challenges in finding a traditional legal position until you’re admitted, unfortunately. You have a really good reason for why you didn’t sit the bar (and you should be as upfront about that as you’re comfortable being in cover letters – otherwise, the assumption will be that you failed), but for employers, it’s more about needing the admission than whether or not your reason was a good one.
Don’t lie to your employers. Yes, they could verify that if they wanted to, and if you’re caught doing it, you could very well lose your job. I know that it isn’t fun, but I think you’re probably better served by seeking temporary work that doesn’t require bar admission (like LSAT tutoring, temporary paralegal jobs, etc.) while you study for the February bar.
TBK
Agreed. DON’T LIE. Don’t ever lie to employers but if you’re a soon-to-be lawyer REALLY REALLY REALLY DON’T LIE. I know how the world paints us, but the bar is pretty obsessed with honesty. You’d be jeopardizing not only your relationship with that employer (who’d almost certainly fire you) but also the legal market in that area PLUS if word got back to the bar itself, you’d be at risk of not being admitted even if you passed the exam.
Jobless in CA
Thanks TBK and everyone else for giving me some perspective on this. I’ve been having a rough couple of weeks so this was a lapse in judgement. Thanks for saving me from making a bad mistake.
Meg Murry
Rather than lying, can you just be vague and say “I was signed up to take the bar this summer, but had to miss the exam due to [mono, tuberculosis, being under Ebola quarantine, vague “in the hospital”, etc]. I am now signed up for the February 2016 California bar exam.”
That way, you aren’t explicitly saying you were signed up for the CA exam – but you are implying it. No need to lie, but no need to give them more info than they need.
mascot
Wouldn’t you have to take the California bar even if you had passed the bar in State X? I think your uphill battle is coming from a combination of not already having a legal job and not being CA barred, regardless of bar status in other states. Like others said though, be honest in explaining all of this.
Similar Story
I did a similar thing in relocating to California (LA Area) before having took the bar, on a delay from LS graduation and yes – it is terribly hard to get hired as an attorney/real lawyer person before you are barred. Or find out you pass. Or even take the test. Unless you’re a special snowflake big law kid who got a 4.0 from UCLA (but of course those kids have already been hired).
Honestly, look into temporary/non legal PT work if you need to make money because it is so hard to get a legal job without that bar number. If you’re in LA – cater-waitering is great! Otherwise if you can swing the no-money, do pro bono/legal volunteering work so you can demonstrate that you’re learning CA law, doing legal stuff, without sitting around waiting for Feb16 to come.
(Also – APPLY FOR MORAL CHARACTER RIGHT THIS SECOND if you haven’t yet. UGHHHH it’s like the CA Bar knew that I was relocating and wanted to make my life as difficult as possible. I had a three month license delay from finding out I passed to getting my license number. )
Anon0321
Living in SF here- I would look into ediscovery work. Yes it’s boring has hell, but it’s legally related, pays ok, and is extremely abundant– also does not require bar membership. I worked at an ediscovery firm for about 1.5 yrs after moving up here and there were tons of law school grads, but I was one of only a few that had passed the bar. It helped me make contacts and eventually most of the people there went on to pass the bar & get better jobs. I hated the company I worked for– but their biggest client ended up hiring me and now I love my job.
A bunch of the other guys I worked with also did hourly legal work for smaller firms.
FWIW, I took & did not pass the CA July exam after law school & then took & passed the Feb exam. After passing the Feb exam, literally no one has ever asked me about the timing of my test. I was overly worried about this when I first failed it… and it ended up being a non issue after the fact (I know doesn’t help now- just want you to focus on the big picture).
Anyway- just a bit of my experience and that if you keep at it, it will get better!